Gun Thread: Quick Draw [Weasel]

Last week we talked about range time, training and practice. When I first started shooting handguns, my weekly training and practice routine was to setup at an indoor range and spend 45 minutes to an hour trying to shoot the middle out of a paper silhouette about 20 feet away. How long did it take for that to become boring? About 15 minutes. But I stuck with it, Bro's and Bro-ettes, because I was training you see! And after practicing my standing motionless at 7 yards drill for months, I got to be pretty damn good! I'd set up the target the exact same way at 7 yards every time - I'd read somewhere that was the average distance of a lot of self-defense encounters - adjust the lighting just so, and proceed to make a big ol' raggedy hole in the middle of the target right where you're supposed to shoot the bad guys, or 'perps' as me and the boys called 'em. Eventually, I was able to make even smaller raggedy holes, thanks to all my practice and training!

But was I really accomplishing very much? Was I accomplishing anything at all? Let's find out below, shall we?

I had to be accomplishing something, because after all, my groups were getting smaller so I must be ready for some self-defens'n! I was at the point where the very next time someone who needed to be shot stood absolutely still directly in front of me at 20 feet or so, and I got all of the shooting crap out of my range bag and loaded up, I was pretty confident in my mad small hole making skillz! Yeah. Ridiculous. There wasn't anything really wrong with what I was doing, but I definitely wasn't accomplishing much more than practicing grip mechanics, trigger pull and sight alignment. All very important fundamentals, mind you, but also not a very likely scenario for a real world situation, now is it?

Here's an article on why little groups might not always be your friend, or at least why they may not represent the greatest training bang for your buck after you become generally proficient with your firearm.

I alluded to this last week, but most people start with an objective in mind when they take up the shooting sports. For some it is purely recreational with a vague desire to develop at least some level of competency with a firearm, while others have a more serious and specific self-defense application in mind. For some it may be a combination of all of the above, or even some other objective altogether. Whatever the case, it's helpful to keep your reasons in mind as you go to the range. Range time is practice time, even if you are simply practicing the skill of having fun.

So here's a question; if you include self-defense among your reasons for shooting, have you tried drawing from a holster and placing a couple of rounds in quick succession on target? If you haven't practiced this, and if your range allows it, you should try it sometime. All of a sudden you might find your raggedy single hole is much harder to replicate. In fact, you may find you have trouble hitting the target with any consistency at all. Uh oh! My skillz is gone!

Maybe not. If your objective is self defense, what you're really practicing are the skills necessary to stop the bad guy, right? The cops aren't going to score your shot placement if, God forbid, you have to shoot somebody. You're shooting to stop a threat, not to impress range babes with your one raggedy-hole bad-assery. I think most people agree that two or three shots inside about a six-inch center mass circle represents a pretty good start, and if it doesn't, then just keep shooting. This is training to a specific competency, and it needs to be practiced.

Again, you need to be certain your range allows this sort of practice, and if it does, consider adding some reality training to your routine. If it doesn't, you can usually get away with at least starting from a low-ready position. Don't go all nutty and spastic and try to be Marshal Dillon on Day 1, but rather slowly and methodically practice drawing and placing your sights on the target. This is something that is perfect to practice at home in front of a mirror wearing your Superman underwear and cape, with an unloaded! gun. Start ridiculously slowly drawing the weapon and acquiring the target, then making the weapon 'safe' and returning it to the holster. When you go to the range, now clothed and cape-less, practice the same drill and then slowly incorporate live fire. Do not start out practicing some sort of quick-draw business, your speed and proficiency will come with time. Some ranges even have programmable lanes which will present the target to the shooter for a couple of seconds based on a random timer, and these are an excellent training tool.

But what if your range doesn't allow this? What to do? You may be able to find that International Defensive Pistol Association, or IDPA, matches are being held in your area. These matches consist of 'stages' where you compete in scenarios designed to simulate real-world situations. In these matches you will practice movement, shooting, reloading and all sorts of things. If competition isn't your thing, don't worry about scores, although they are an excellent way to measure improvement. If you cannot find an IDPA match, there are a number of other organizations that put on the same sort of events, so just look around. As the first link below mentions, even tactical competition doesn't replicate the real world environment, but in my opinion, it is a great training option you might want to explore.

So what do you all think? Have you incorporated any real world elements in your training, or are you more of a stand-and-plink sort of a shooter? Have any of you participated in an IDPA style match, and if so, what was your experience?

Bonus Question: What was the name of Sheriff Quick Draw's sidekick?

Programming Note: I'll be attending a fabulous and luxurious social event this evening, but I'll try and check in periodically. Try not to burn the place down, and no parties, 'kay?

*******

Link-O-Rama
Video: Thoughts on Competition vs. Tactical Training
Pew Pew Tactical: Six Best Shooting Drills
NRA: More Shooting Drills
Bigfoot Gun Belts: More on Shooting Drills
Lucky Gunner: You Guessed It - Shooting Drills
Eagle Gun Range: Warmup Drills
Tactical-Life: Accuracy Drills

***Mail Bag***

This week I'd like to give a shout-out to all of my pals in the F-Class shooting community, who are currently wrapping up 8 days of competition at the 2019 U.S. National Mid and Long-Range Championships in Raton, New Mexico. This year, 268 competitors met to compete against themselves, each other, and the wind in the New Mexico high desert. These guys and gals are some of the very best shooters in the world. I've been following the scores and range reports this week, and the conditions during some relays have been absolutely brutal, with shifting winds in excess of 35 mph. Imagine trying to hit a 5 inch circle at 1,000 yards in that, then imagine trying to do it 20 times in a row during a match. It's a testament to the skill and dedication of all involved, who have been practicing and preparing for the event all year. Congratulations to all of the competitors!

A library of event photos can be found HERE courtesy of Turbulent Turtle at the Accurate Shooter website.

******

Please note the new and improved gmail account morongunthread at gmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Gub thread!!!

Posted by: Pete Polarek at September 22, 2019 07:03 PM (C1NyB)

2

Pew!

Posted by: Soothsayer, very senile at September 22, 2019 07:03 PM (eMoBB)

3 Dare I hope?

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 07:03 PM (tDzWD)

4 Nope!

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 07:03 PM (tDzWD)

5

Beaten on the draw!

Posted by: Soothsayer, very senile at September 22, 2019 07:03 PM (eMoBB)

6 I read that as "no panties."

Posted by: CMU VET at September 22, 2019 07:05 PM (C+wjz)

7 Does El Kabong still post here? Or was that always just a sock? Well it always made me laugh either way.

ALRIGHT? soright!

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 22, 2019 07:05 PM (V2Yro)

8 I haven't been to Raton in 30 years.

Posted by: Muad'dib at September 22, 2019 07:05 PM (uDh3k)

9 Did you all hear what that dope Sheila Jackson said? The an AR 15 was as heavy as 10 boxes of something and shot 50 caliber bullets?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 22, 2019 07:06 PM (85Gof)

10 Oh, great. Weasel is phoning it in today.

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 07:07 PM (tDzWD)

11 Ammo alert

While Wally World is selling off the handgun ammo, a discount popped up. Have confirmed this at two local stores.

50rd Federal 9mm brass is listed at $9.97 but is ringing up as $7.97.

The 200rd Federal 9mm brass is still ringing up at regular price.

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 07:07 PM (QSzhg)

12 Here, let me piss multiple people off.

Posted by: A Sexy Monkey Serving Gin at September 22, 2019 07:07 PM (uDh3k)

13 Did you all hear what that dope Sheila Jackson said? The an AR 15 was as heavy as 10 boxes of something and shot 50 caliber bullets?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 22, 2019 07:06 PM (85Gof)

Well.

It is as heavy as ten boxes of something. For certain values of 'something'.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 07:07 PM (t+qrx)

14 Bonus Question: What was the name of Sheriff Quick Draw's sidekick?

Babalooie? Guessing on the spelling.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 07:08 PM (qc+VF)

15 Be right back

Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 07:08 PM (ZCEU2)

16 Soothi! Care for a drink?

Posted by: A Sexy Monkey Serving Gin at September 22, 2019 07:09 PM (uDh3k)

17 No range time this week. I'm really becoming a sloth in that regard. I did manage to twist on my Galil barrel, and now I find it is short chambered by a couple of thousandths. I need to find someone to finish ream it just a turn or two.

And I got a little further on my ultralight build for Mrs928. I need to finish it by Christmas I think. She is right handed but massively left eye dominate so I will have to set it up ambie. Here's were it stands:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHd9pzF

I still need a BCG and a gas plug. I should have had the lower parts kit already but Combat Armory messed up and sent me an AR upper instead. Odd. Someone out there is also going WTH over getting a lower parts kit instead of an upper. I'll try to sort that out this week. They might just let me keep the upper.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:10 PM (yQpMk)

18 My range doesn't allow much action unless you're enrolled in specific classes. After hours the RO's do have fun.

Posted by: Carpe Manana at September 22, 2019 07:10 PM (bIrK9)

19 http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=515391
I passed along the pictures of the old firearm of last week and here are some more opinions

Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 07:10 PM (ZCEU2)

20 Babalooie? Guessing on the spelling.

Darned close. Wiki says "Baba Looey", with both characters being voiced by Daws Butler.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM guy at September 22, 2019 07:12 PM (7s3Gx)

21 Those 10 boxes of Sheila Jackson Lee's must contain volumes 1 through 10 of the Mueller Report.

Posted by: Debby Doberman Schultz at September 22, 2019 07:13 PM (a4EWo)

22 Wow, grump.
You sure you're building it for her?

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 07:14 PM (tDzWD)

23 It is as heavy as ten boxes of something. For certain values of 'something'.
Posted by: hogmartin

An AR-15 is nineteen thousand times as heavy as my braining thing! Even the .50 cal missiles it can magazine are heavier!

Posted by: Sheila Jackoff Lee at September 22, 2019 07:16 PM (P1f+c)

24

I'll do the thinnin around here Baba Looey!

Posted by: Quick Draw McGraw at September 22, 2019 07:17 PM (aKsyK)

25 You sure you're building it for her?

Heh. I really am. I'm more of a 30 cal guy and she hates my heavy milsurps. She likes pistols but I want her to develop a liking for rifles so I'm shooting (no pun intended) for a sub 5lb rifle, loaded, with a straight 20rd aluminum mag. The upper and lower I started with are magnesium from Fostech. They are lighter than air.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:18 PM (yQpMk)

26
My local range over in Midlothian is a no-draw range, which makes things a bit sucky.

I decided to concentrate on the first shot, on the theory that the first shot is the most difficult to get right, and also the most important in a real life social situation.

Starting from low ready, I'd bring the pistol up smoothly and fire a single round as I got that center mass index on the silhouette target. Bring the pistol down slowly to reset at low ready, taking several seconds. Then repeat. After a bunch of practice, you can get that first shot off damned quickly, and with decent combat accuracy.

That also keeps the range folks happy since I'm not doing fast double-taps, and I'm keeping the muzzle downrange.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 22, 2019 07:20 PM (e0p0c)

27 "rather slowly and methodically practice drawing and placing your sights on the target"

Actually, start with point shooting, imo. Understanding that you, as a human, pretty accurately nail something you point at with your index finger (your trigger finger, your booger hook). Work on shooting by _pointing_, working backward to a retention position and point shoot, then work the issue of drawing to retention position *safely* (yes, slowly and methodically).

Posted by: GWB at September 22, 2019 07:20 PM (T3K6c)

28 i was having a fit because i couldn't find the bolts to put the barrel on the HS...

until i discovered they are retained by the receiver when you take the barrel off.

now i have to contact Styer for some torque info on the gub, because i accidentally loosened a receiver bolt... DOH!

i have the scope and mount on the gun now, so we can check eye relief, then i'll do the actual mount and torque later this week.

then i can FINALLY get it out to the range and make noise while trying to zero it and see if the barrel needs a "break in"...

the -10 from the factory says "no". we shall see.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 22, 2019 07:21 PM (VXS7N)

29 Damn little shooting on duty day at the range last week. No steel shooting from the holster, ahead of the line, as I like to do on one of the small ranges. Too busy. Who effed up and opened the gate?

A bit of rested and off-hand shooting with a Mosin, milsurp ammo. Fairly happy with the result, been a while since I shot one of those. 3/4 of the hits inside the black circle [8" wide? not sure, maybe 1O"] is fine. Off-hand about half as good. Need to spend serious time practicing off-hand, kneeling, prone. Iron sights.

A few beautiful 19O3s there to torment me. And another guy [like last month] with a home-built 9mikemike AR-platform light/short rifle, very nice. Fancy trigger [allowed very rapid fire], piston buffer took what was already de minimis recoil and reduced it further.

Posted by: rhomboid at September 22, 2019 07:21 PM (QDnY+)

30 I practice basics at the indoor range. I have an outdoor range where I practice drawing and movement. I can hit 2 inch groups at 9 yards either hand (I practice with both), one- or two-handed indoors.

I am somewhat - and sometimes considerably - less accurate outdoors pushing on time or movement.

My primary tactic for a gunfight will be awareness. I'm not going to win a ol' style western gunfight.

Shooting some of the steel competitions around here will be my next challenge.

PS. Can't imagine shooting precision at 1000 yards with that kind of wind. My hat's off to those folks just for having the stones to try.

Posted by: Long Running Fool at September 22, 2019 07:22 PM (RCsg2)

31 Grump, I bought an M-Forgery for Mrs. Red. She was impressed that I had done so, but said she'd rather appropriate my Ruger .22-.45. Which she did.
So I have an "extra" in 5.56. I tac'ed it up with light and laser and stuff.

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 07:22 PM (tDzWD)

32 I haven't been to Raton in 30 years.

Posted by: Muad'dib at September 22, 2019 07:05 PM (uDh3k)

Same here. Though I'm not sure I ever saw much of it beyond the gas station and McDonald's at the highway junction (I25 and US87) on the east side. I was always driving through from Colorado to Texas.

Posted by: GWB at September 22, 2019 07:22 PM (T3K6c)

33 Our outdoor range does allow it but I haven't taken advantage of it. Now that the weather is getting nicer we'll be getting more practice in.

Btw. Thanks again Weasel. Much appreciated.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:23 PM (Zv1X1)

34 I still need a BCG and a gas plug.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:10 PM (yQpMk)

That just sounds kinky.

Posted by: GWB at September 22, 2019 07:24 PM (T3K6c)

35 I have taken InSight's General Defensive Handgun course which does perzactkly what is described in the post -- goes in stages from draw to aim to fire to reholster. At least two instructors on the gun line to prevent painful brain seizures and make sure everyone goes home with the same number of toes they showed up with. I like it because it takes place over two days and allows good habits to get reinforced. There is a real difference to draw and fire. Also trains that sometimes you draw and do NOT fire. They also train shoot and move, so you don't train yourself to sit there and invite return fire to one place.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at September 22, 2019 07:25 PM (MjdP3)

36 That just sounds kinky.

For what they cost I should get a happy ending. $90 for the gas block I want and a cheap $160 for the BCG.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:26 PM (yQpMk)

37 First bacon and then gubs. Is this a great country or what?

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 07:27 PM (UUkQp)

38 Just gotta share this. I LOVE this pic! Thank God for free-thinking people.
(I also love his shoes.)

https://tinyurl.com/y2mv2wqz

Posted by: qdpsteve at September 22, 2019 07:27 PM (L2ZTs)

39 And before I read all this, a double Captain Morgan in a chilled glass!

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 07:28 PM (UUkQp)

40
g'early evenin', 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at September 22, 2019 07:29 PM (prqrF)

41 I have pistols strictly for self defense and so I am content with MOM from 0 to 20 ft without using the sights or adopting a shooting stance. I practice a shot from the hip clearing the holster, slide up tight for another shot our of my armpit and then extend the arm for the third shot.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:29 PM (yQpMk)

42 The best investment I picked up for shooting practice is a shot timer. At 7 yards I try to get the first round off within 1.5 seconds from the holster and deliver accurate shots with about 0.3 - 0.35 second splits.
The upper thoracic has a lot of things that don't react well to gunfire so my training goal is to deliver accurate rounds there as quickly as possible.

Posted by: Lemmenkainen at September 22, 2019 07:30 PM (BTYuT)

43 I took that "Why little groups might not be your friend" article to heart.
Luckily, I can shoot in my backyard so I don't have to worry about R.O.s freaking out.
Drawing and shooting from lots of positions, motion, distance. Two center mass, one head. Reloading, malfunction, etc.
Very eye-opening, and fun. Need lots more practice.

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 07:31 PM (tDzWD)

44 Puppy training is going well. 2nd obedience class is tomorrow. Time to shatter some dreams and break some hearts.

Posted by: Muad'dib - drinking gin and having fun at September 22, 2019 07:31 PM (uDh3k)

45 Restall had a theory on the effect of guns in the Spanish Conquest. His theory was: not much. At first.

Cortes had guns but he had guns made in 1515 Cuba. They were for sh!t in long range. For long range you'd fire a volley, which like longbow arrows would hit some rando in the onrushing horde; in the meantime, you were dodging about ten actual arrows from said horde. Advantage: arrows. Oh, and gunpowder gets soggy in humid climates like, say, the Mexican Gulf Coast.

Cannon was a thing too, i guess... except that you had to schlep those things up 8000 feet of Mexican antiplano to use them.

Restall thought that Cortes' guns were best as defensive weapons, if the Spaniards were already cut off from (Tlaxcaltec) reinforcements and were being swarmed by armed Mexica.

What really made the difference was horse, at Otumba (thanks Tom Servo). That and the aforementioned Tlaxcaltecs.

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at September 22, 2019 07:32 PM (ykYG2)

46 I'm also a believer in DA for EDC. My SAs are range toys and maybe home defense.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:32 PM (yQpMk)

47 Used to do great shoot/move drills, against both steel and paper silhouette targets, when my buddy was ROing with me [he moved to TX]. He was a SEAL for over a quarter century. He'd set up stages where we'd have to move a certain way [don't hug "walls" too closely, they tend to catch/channel enemy fire], always take cover for reloading.

Don't carry, so the draw is not a big focus, but do focus on accuracy in these improvised tactical stages. Big fun.

Posted by: rhomboid at September 22, 2019 07:32 PM (QDnY+)

48 Really good drill called the "1R1" - start with a full mag and and empty mag. Insert full mag, cycle your slide (puts a round in the chamber). Do a mag change putting the empty mag in the gun and the full mag on your belt - remember the gun is hot. Aim at the target and start your timer. On the beep, fire. Your slide locks back, mag change and fire again. Make your weapon safe and holster. Your time is from the beep-until-second-shot. Remember the gun has a round in the chamber. Placing an empty mag into the gun and the full mag back on your belt. Repeat. A g17 can do 8 reps on 1 full mag.

For more fun, mix in a couple of dummy rounds. when you get a malfunction, tap, rack and roll, then take the second shot. Your time is still beep-to-second-shot.

Offer to load mags for your friends. If you want some extra fun, put two dummy rounds next to each other.

For even more fun, load up several mags - say 5, some full, some not full, mix in some dummy rounds, and do some sprints and shoot from cover.

I have been shooting these drills using 3x5 cards as the target at 7 and 10 yards. Only card hits count, keep shooting until you hit the card twice.

Posted by: Richard at September 22, 2019 07:32 PM (huaUe)

49 Weasel!
*smooch*

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 07:32 PM (NWiLs)

50 I practice a shot from the hip clearing the holster, slide up tight for another shot our of my armpit and then extend the arm for the third shot.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:29 PM (yQpMk)

That sounds like an effective way of covering your bases.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:33 PM (Zv1X1)

51
My primary tactic for a gunfight will be awareness.

Posted by: Long Running Fool at September 22, 2019 07:22 PM (RCsg2)

Hell, my primary tactic for a gunfight is "Run away! Run away!"

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 22, 2019 07:34 PM (e0p0c)

52 Starting from low ready, I'd bring the pistol up smoothly and fire a single round as I got that center mass index on the silhouette target. Bring the pistol down slowly to reset at low ready, taking several seconds. Then repeat. After a bunch of practice, you can get that first shot off damned quickly, and with decent combat accuracy.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 22, 2019 07:20 PM (e0p0c)

This is exactly what I had typed up to post, but then I refreshed and saw that you'd posted it already. But I'll post it anyhow.

None of the ranges near me allow draw and fire drills, unless you're there for a class that includes it. And two of the three require 2-3 seconds between shots to keep out people who are just there to make a lot of noise, I guess.

Since I can't really practice draw or follow-up shots, I've been working on presentation and sight acquisition. Starting from compressed ready (pistol level and downrange, between waist and chest height, elbows bent with the pistol pulled in), pick a point on the target and raise the pistol to firing height and press out towards the target while visually acquiring the front sight. Fire when it's lined up, and follow through to acquire the same picture after recoil. I also download the magazines with a different number of rounds, so I have to reload during the string, and I don't know when it'll be.

https://youtu.be/Ctn7k5JBRTg

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 07:34 PM (t+qrx)

53 Unfortunately I don't have any ranges anywhere near me that allow draw and fire or other such types of practice.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 07:35 PM (NWiLs)

54
my "guy" called me on Friday as I was headed out to the MiMoMe, said he had received a small block of aluminium for me (I go pick it up tomorrow night)

recv'd the other bits of aluminium, steel, & plastic from Del-ton last Tuesday

I just have to load it all in the canoe & take it to the other side of the river, then I'm having a little build party next weekend

Posted by: AltonJackson at September 22, 2019 07:35 PM (prqrF)

55 That sounds like an effective way of covering your bases.

I train for very close contact. I assume that I will have little warning and little room so I don't want to get in the habit of extending my arm and having the weapon within grabbing reach of the assailant. Honestly, if they are 50 feet away (and I see people practicing this) I'm going to run for it and seek cover, defying them to hit a fear-speeded moving target.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:38 PM (yQpMk)

56 Maybe we shouldn't tell Sheila Jackson Lee that you can get 50 caliber uppers for the AR-15. Mine's a Beowulf.

Posted by: These fish sticks are hard as tits at September 22, 2019 07:40 PM (1L9V9)

57 56 Maybe we shouldn't tell Sheila Jackson Lee that you can get 50 caliber uppers for the AR-15. Mine's a Beowulf.
Posted by: These fish sticks are hard as tits at September 22, 2019 07:40 PM (1L9V9)

I'd give my right arm for one of those!

Posted by: Grendel at September 22, 2019 07:41 PM (NWiLs)

58 So Heidi carries in a purse, and that's something she needs to practice drawing from a purse. I always wondered how inaccurate it would be if she had to under pressure, shoot through the purse, and if its even possible.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:41 PM (Zv1X1)

59 > And two of the three require 2-3 seconds between shots to keep out people who are just there to make a lot of noise, I guess.

I've had range guys look when I was shooting fast but when they see I'm delivering accurate hits they leave me alone. At least at ranges by me they're probably just trying to stop the clowns from shooting the tracks etc. The closer range to my house has bullet marks in the ceiling directly above some of the lanes. :O

Posted by: Lemmenkainen at September 22, 2019 07:42 PM (BTYuT)

60 I'd give my right arm for one of those!
Posted by: Grendel at September 22, 2019 07:41 PM (NWiLs)

Too soon.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 07:42 PM (t+qrx)

61 Hell, my primary tactic for a gunfight is "Run away! Run away!"

Honestly, that's the best Plan A (when Plan 0: "be somewhere else" has failed). I once took some classes with an instructor who said that there are exactly three valid responses to a threat and they should be used in this order:

1) run away
2) get help
3) fight like a tiger

Notice that "proportional response" or "shoot 'em in the knee" are not choices.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 07:44 PM (qc+VF)

62 I always wondered how inaccurate it would be if she had to under pressure, shoot through the purse, and if its even possible.

I think I'd recommend it for the first shot. I would suspect that nothing in that purse is going to stop a bullet or deflect it too much at likely pistol distance. It might get warm in there though depending on what she was shooting.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:44 PM (yQpMk)

63 58 So Heidi carries in a purse, and that's something she needs to practice drawing from a purse. I always wondered how inaccurate it would be if she had to under pressure, shoot through the purse, and if its even possible.
Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:41 PM (Zv1X1)

I'm no expert but it seems that shooting through the purse is only a safe bet at contact distance. Also, if she has a bunch of shit in her purse, things could get in the trigger guard, or in the way of the hammer (if there is one), or impinge the slide as it cycles the next round. If it's a specialty purse designed specifically for concealed carry of a handgun then these may be less of a concern.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 07:44 PM (NWiLs)

64 Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:38 PM (yQpMk)

Yep Grump. that's what I pictured when I saw your comment and most likely your practice drill is what you'll need. Much more likely you'll be under severe pressure and short distance constraints.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:44 PM (Zv1X1)

65 I am about to buy a good concealed weapon. I have big hands and would like to stay bigger than 9mm and would prefer it not to be too bulky. Any suggestions I could try at the range?

Posted by: catman at September 22, 2019 07:45 PM (4HMlb)

66 most likely your practice drill is what you'll need

I like the idea that the first shot is likely to be to their balls.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:47 PM (yQpMk)

67 65 I am about to buy a good concealed weapon. I have big hands and would like to stay bigger than 9mm and would prefer it not to be too bulky. Any suggestions I could try at the range?
Posted by: catman at September 22, 2019 07:45 PM (4HMlb)

Try ALL TEH GUNZ!

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 07:47 PM (NWiLs)

68 90 percent of carry time (everyday) it's on the right hip. Feels the most natural whether a little Ruger .357 LCR or a steel 19ll. Holsters are either all leather or some sort of kydex or other synthetic, always use a real belt which holds up under firearm and at least 2 extra mags. And no I don't practice pistol at 50 feet. That's shotgun territory as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 07:48 PM (UUkQp)

69 I like the idea that the first shot is likely to be to their balls.

So that's what ball ammo is for? I learn something new here every week.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 07:49 PM (qc+VF)

70 Got my range time in yesterday, as my observance of International Peace Day, mostly as lolgf commie UN, but also in the spirit of that Latin tag about if you want peace prepare for war.

Weasel, you make excellent points up top, really needs saying and repeating for anyone who aspires to effective defense with a gun.
I have to work at keeping it in mind myself !

When I do my range report here it sometimes catches the old bullseye shooter in my head weird, you're telling people you stayed in the 8 ring of a big silhouette at 21 feet and feeling good about it ?
Yes, one handed, with a short barreled pistol, after running ... yeah, I think that's pretty okay.
If this had been real self defense every one of those shots would have, at minimum, seriously inconvenienced an aggressor.

Anyway, that said, this week was the usual quick run-through, 10 from the j-frame and the mini .22, a dozen from the p290, and since we're going up North next month, 6 rounds of .44 mag from the 629 which will accompany me in addition to the usual.

all in the 8 ring.

fired the .44 at 30-35 feet, 2 handed.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 22, 2019 07:49 PM (c1yAg)

71 If it's a specialty purse designed specifically for concealed carry of a handgun then these may be less of a concern.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 07:44 PM (NWiLs)

One is a carry purse but I'm not sure I'm crazy about the system It does have a separate pocket that holds the weapon, a Ruger 38 revolver (loaded plus P's defense rounds )) she is proficient with. easy zipper and there was an instance she had her hand in her purse holding the grip, but thank God false alarm.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:50 PM (Zv1X1)

72 45,
Don't discount the noise and flash of firearms to tribal peoples...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at September 22, 2019 07:50 PM (6qErC)

73 Maybe we shouldn't tell Sheila Jackson Lee that you can get 50 caliber uppers for the AR-15. Mine's a Beowulf.
Posted by: These fish sticks are hard as tits at September 22, 2019 07:40 PM

=====

I'd give my right arm for one of those!
Posted by: Grendel at September 22, 2019 07:41 PM

I would have bet money you'd be more of a 6.5 kind of guy.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 07:50 PM (DMUuz)

74 I have big hands and would like to stay bigger than 9mm and would prefer it not to be too bulky.

Bigger than 9mm is going to rule out pocket pistols so how about a single stack Springfield XDS in 45acp.

http://bit.ly/2LInVTJ

The only down side is your pinkie will be hanging off most likely.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:50 PM (yQpMk)

75 Catman, Insomniac is exactly right. Go to a range with 25 or so pistols on the wall and try hand feel first. Then choose what you'd like to shoot, is the best way for you to Goldilocks a gub. It is known.

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 07:53 PM (UUkQp)

76 There has to be a purse with a pocket designed to hold a pistol that keeps it separate from all the other things that are carried in a purse like handkerchiefs, make up, hair products, spare wrenches, lighters, phone and charger, flares, water purification tablets, compass, mess kit, breakfast bars, fruit, canned meat, and books.

Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 07:53 PM (ZCEU2)

77 I am about to buy a good concealed weapon. I have big hands and would like to stay bigger than 9mm and would prefer it not to be too bulky. Any suggestions I could try at the range?
Posted by: catman at September 22, 2019 07:45 PM

A Commander-framed 1911 is the breakfast of Champions.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 07:53 PM (DMUuz)

78 I think I'd recommend it for the first shot. I would suspect that nothing in that purse is going to stop a bullet or deflect it too much at likely pistol distance. It might get warm in there though depending on what she was shooting.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:44 PM (yQpMk)

Well if she has to then yep, through the purse. Like you said if its a long ways away then run. Both her purses have a separate pocket and so nothing goes in there but the revolver. Through the purse is like your shot from the hip imho. Hell, may the only shot and so closer is better in that case as Insom said. Up close, just keep pulling the trigger. Seconds and others should go through the same hole.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:54 PM (Zv1X1)

79 Baba Looey

Posted by: Mamawolf at September 22, 2019 07:55 PM (tFWWx)

80 Catman, glocks come in all sizes and flavors:
Full size G 17 size does 9, .40, .357 Sig, .45.
Compact G 19 size does the same.
Sub compact may be too small.

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 07:56 PM (tDzWD)

81 Purse carry seems like a good idea at first thought but what about a purse snatcher running off with your weapon? I have seen some fanny pack style holsters that would be harder to wrestle off.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:58 PM (yQpMk)

82 At close range, firing through a purse will not affect accuracy much. Well not as much as literally firing blind and from the hip. But when seconds matter...

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 07:58 PM (QSzhg)

83 Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 07:53 PM (ZCEU2)

there are plenty of really nice carry purses. Some have some really nifty systems that allow quick access and some you can keep in the purses and with a quick pull the barrel is free and clear in front of the purse. Heidi carries a 'hammer less' revolver so less to snag.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 07:59 PM (Zv1X1)

84 A Commander-framed 1911 is the breakfast of Champions.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 07:53 PM (DMUuz)

Open carry in a leather chest holster.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 07:59 PM (t+qrx)

85 At close range, firing through a purse will not affect accuracy much.

The imagine of the ER doctors removing coin and makeup compact shrapnel from the perp is also amusing.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:59 PM (yQpMk)

86 the image

FMK

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:00 PM (yQpMk)

87 OK, Anna, since this is Morons, gunz, bewbz, etc., what do you think of the under-bewb holsters?

Posted by: RI Red at September 22, 2019 08:00 PM (tDzWD)

88 There has to be a purse with a pocket designed to hold a pistol...

There are many. Usually they will have a compartment accessed by a quick-pull zipper that can be yanked open with the purse carried over the weak-side shoulder. If anyone coming to TxMoMe is interested, I can get Mrs. the B to bring some examples from her (*ahem*) "collection." The source usually recommended for women new to CCW is www.corneredcat.com.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 08:00 PM (qc+VF)

89 ER nurse to doctor, "you found a tampon in his spleen?"

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:01 PM (QSzhg)

90 My friend at the range recommended I try the various glocks just to get a base feel..

Posted by: Catman at September 22, 2019 08:01 PM (4HMlb)

91 Funny, I just went through Raton in August on the way back from RVing in Colorado.

Posted by: lin-duh at September 22, 2019 08:01 PM (UUBmN)

92 The xds sounds good.. Will have to try..

Posted by: Catman at September 22, 2019 08:02 PM (4HMlb)

93 My friend at the range recommended I try the various glocks just to get a base feel..

You might be assimilated. People who like Glocks really really like Glocks.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:02 PM (yQpMk)

94 Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 08:00 PM (qc+VF)

Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 08:03 PM (Zv1X1)

95 Tried Glocks. Didn't like 'em. Highly subjective though, so YMMV.

Posted by: AshevilleRobert at September 22, 2019 08:03 PM (Mm4NK)

96 Anyone fired the Bond Bullpup9? Can't find one locally to shoot.

Posted by: Jean at September 22, 2019 08:03 PM (B7KlG)

97 You might be assimilated. People who like Glocks really really like Glocks.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:02 PM (yQpMk)

I don't even like Glocks, and then I shot one, and now I kind of like them. They put worms in your brain.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:04 PM (t+qrx)

98 I am in Walmart too much to open carry...

Posted by: Catman at September 22, 2019 08:04 PM (4HMlb)

99 Tried Glocks. Didn't like 'em. Highly subjective though, so YMMV.

I'm with you, but I know several people who tried a Glock, and now won't own anything else. For those that it fits, it's a damn fine pistol.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:04 PM (yQpMk)

100 89 ER nurse to doctor, "you found a tampon in his spleen?"

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:01 PM (QSzhg)

Heidi: LMAO!

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (Zv1X1)

101 I don't want to get in the habit of extending my arm
and having the weapon within grabbing reach of the assailant.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:38 PM (yQpMk)

Yep. That's why they call it "retention position".
Draw, pivot the pistol to point toward the target (booger hook still pointing, not pulling), then pull it up and push out (various techniques for 2d hand, whether it's up then out or up AND out, etc.), bringing it to normal shooting position, then aligning a proper sight picture. And as long as possible, the weapon stays close in, **always pointed toward the target**, so you can put the booger hook in and go bang if you need to (like he closed on you).

Posted by: GWB at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (T3K6c)

102 OK, Anna, since this is Morons, gunz, bewbz, etc., what do you think of the under-bewb holsters?

Mrs. the B tried of those too. I think the experiment lasted less than a week. One of those things that seems better in concept than in real life.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (qc+VF)

103 So, if you're in an emergency scenario, and your companion is unwilling to escape to safety with you, what do you do?

Leave them to their fate and risk being separated? Or face the threat with them?

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (i/wJA)

104 Last year, late fall Shooting Buddy and I did a quick practice shooting-through-jacket-pocket with a couple of thrift-store coats.

One shot, okay, within the silhouette at 3 yards mostly, second shot sometimes ok, sometimes got involved with the lining for a rather hard-to-clear failure. Revolvers definitely better than autos.

One time I got all 5 rounds off from the j-frame, pocket was smoldering but no actual flame.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (c1yAg)

105 I am leary of the blockyness of the nose but I will have to try from a holster.. Fired plenty but not from a draw..

Posted by: Catman at September 22, 2019 08:06 PM (4HMlb)

106 Catman,

A lot of what you pick depends on how much time and effort you wish to spend on shooting. An N-Frame revolver or something like a Ruger GP 100 fits most mitts. Revolvers have a simpler manual of arms for those that shoot sporadically but have limited capacity and both the these would be difficult to conceal. These are also a bit more expensive that a plastic fantastic.

There are lot of semi-autos and quite a few in .40 that are available cheap right now as former police issued. Glocks, Smith and Wesson M&P's, and used Sigs can be found in that category and these will fit larger hands. Look for one with changeable backstraps to accommodate larger hands which will be the Smith M&P or the newer Sig poly line. The Ruger American also has a large sized grip but unsure about those in other than 9mm as I haven't seen one personally. Also the Beretta 92 is one that fits large hands well as is aka U.S. Military M9 Handgun.

Talon Gun Grips can also be added to some of those that don't have those backstraps.

The semi-autos are easier to shoot and have higher capacity. They vary on concealability as those that are more concealable are more difficult to shoot more or less because they are smaller and have more recoil. They do have a more difficult manual of arms and require a bit more practice to function, especially those with safeties. Good luck.

Gotta go now, work awaits.

Posted by: whig at September 22, 2019 08:06 PM (hqUZK)

107 "Bonus Question: What was the name of Sheriff Quick Draw's sidekick?"

Booboobababalouie

Posted by: freaked at September 22, 2019 08:06 PM (Tnijr)

108 impinge the slide as it cycles the next round.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 07:44 PM (NWiLs)

If you're going to carry like that, I would suggest a hammerless revolver so there's no slide cycling at all.

Posted by: GWB at September 22, 2019 08:07 PM (T3K6c)

109 Doesn't that depend on what companion means?

Posted by: Catman at September 22, 2019 08:07 PM (4HMlb)

110 So, if you're in an emergency scenario, and your companion is unwilling to escape to safety with you, what do you do?

Leave them to their fate and risk being separated? Or face the threat with them?

Do you love them? If so, well, everyones got to die sometime. Otherwise, adios amigo.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:07 PM (yQpMk)

111 Leave them to their fate and risk being separated? Or face the threat with them?
Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (i/wJA)

I mean, if you stuck with them, you might have a chance to protect them.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:07 PM (i/wJA)

112 Leave them to their fate and risk being separated? Or face the threat with them?

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (i/wJA)

More info. Please. Do you like them or love them?

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 08:08 PM (Zv1X1)

113 Under-boob holster?

Way too much to get rubbed the wrong way for that to be useful.

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:08 PM (QSzhg)

114 I am a big advocate of IDPA.

Unfortunately, I've been unable to shoot IDPA over the last few months due to life getting in the way.

USPSA a lot of fun, too. However, it's more "run and gun" than IDPA.

Steel Challenge is fun, though there's only one stage with movement.

Steel Challenge does help one with target transition/acquisition.

Posted by: blake - used pronoun salesman at September 22, 2019 08:08 PM (WEBkv)

115 Weasel!
*smooch*
Posted by: Insomniac

Yet another "don't ask, don't tell" moment here at the HQ.

Posted by: JT at September 22, 2019 08:08 PM (arJlL)

116 Gunga la Gunga

Posted by: JT at September 22, 2019 08:08 PM (arJlL)

117 ...Only card hits count, keep shooting until you hit the card twice.

Posted by: Richard at September 22, 2019 07:32 PM (huaUe)

Richard wins the Best Drills award for this one.

And Grump takes the Silver for the Wisdomest Comment, thus far:

...I'm going to run for it and seek cover, defying them to hit a fear-speeded moving target.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 07:38 PM (yQpMk)

As much as I'm confident in my accuracy, I'm less confident in the "legal" system, such as it is.

I mean, me not being a member of the Swampinatti, nor being a Chosen Wonista, or otherwise anointed with the Teflon of the Left.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at September 22, 2019 08:08 PM (QzJWU)

118 Don't forget dry fire training for defensive skills too.

Drawing from your concealed holster, while laying on the ground after a thug knock down, and using both left and right hands to draw and fire, getting to your knees while firing then a full standing position all the while dry firing your weapon. The scenarios you can come up with are endless.....out of bed, out the tub, out of your car. You get the idea.

On a happy note, I used my new target hit indicator by MagnetoSpeed out to 600 yards this week and it worked great.

Here is the link....

https://tinyurl.com/y46bnxh8

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at September 22, 2019 08:08 PM (Z+IKu)

119 103 So, if you're in an emergency scenario, and your companion is unwilling to escape to safety with you, what do you do?

Leave them to their fate and risk being separated? Or face the threat with them?
Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (i/wJA)

Depends who it is. Ex-wife? Buh-bye!

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:09 PM (NWiLs)

120 Cortes had guns but he had guns made in 1515 Cuba. They were for sh!t in long range. For long range you'd fire a volley, which like longbow arrows would hit some rando in the onrushing horde; in the meantime, you were dodging about ten actual arrows from said horde. Advantage: arrows. Oh, and gunpowder gets soggy in humid climates like, say, the Mexican Gulf Coast.

The guns would punch through any armor the Aztecs could come up with, I think. European armor was pretty good at stopping European arrows, and Aztec arrows weren't in the same league.

The idea that bows and arrows were superior to early guns has been kicked around by historians for a long, long time, but with few exceptions the cultures that had access to both preferred guns. The exceptions were horse cultures that favored light cavalry, for whom rate of fire outweighed range and penetration concerns.

People always look at rate of fire, and tend 1) underestimate the effectiveness of armor against muscle-powdered weapons and 2) underestimate the range and accuracy of early firearms.

Posted by: Grey Fox at September 22, 2019 08:10 PM (iTtBf)

121 This would be my husband, who becomes stubborn and completely impervious to reason in high-stress situations. And he's too big for me to just drag to safety.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:10 PM (i/wJA)

122 canned meat

Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 07:53 PM (ZCEU2)

If you have canned meat in there, what do you need a gun for?!
"It was a drive-by spamming!"

Posted by: GWB at September 22, 2019 08:10 PM (T3K6c)

123 Thanks Whig.. Beretta 92 sounds good.. I will see what Appliachian Gun Range has in stock for me to try.. I know an instructor there..

Posted by: Catman at September 22, 2019 08:10 PM (4HMlb)

124 Hello, gub threaders!

No trips to the range this week, just maintenance.

After the rear sights of the Mauser C96 literally flew off and smacked me in the head last week, I ordered a replacement leaf spring.

It arrived with commendable dispatch from Numrich's yesterday. Today I installed it.

Based on the difficulty I had in cinching that thing down, I'm pretty confident it will stay in place.

I spent much of today doing a deep clean of the C96, followed by a routine cleaning of the Webley. I'll say this for revolvers - easy to maintain. I get why the Brits were so unwilling to go for autoloaders.

One thing I've noticed in the C96 is that it's not cycling 100 percent in function tests. I'm thinking I need to replace the sear. I have a spare, but didn't feel like getting into the lock mechanism to swap it out. Maybe next week.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:11 PM (cfSRQ)

125 I prefer the XDE over the XDS for carry. I have both and the XDE checks off all the boxes for me.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at September 22, 2019 08:11 PM (TLxpZ)

126 I am the sheepdog of the family.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:11 PM (i/wJA)

127 sock_rat_eez, that's great - the pocket shooting with thrift store coats

Gonna look around, see if I have any suitable garments that are headed for coat-heaven anyway, and try that same thing. Fun.

Posted by: rhomboid at September 22, 2019 08:11 PM (QDnY+)

128 103 Nice of them to hold the line while you go get reinforcements

Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 08:12 PM (ZCEU2)

129 Leave them to their fate and risk being separated? Or face the threat with them?

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:05 PM (i/wJA)

More serious answer. I want to get back to my loved ones, so if they're being unreasonably stupid then well....lotsa luck.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 08:13 PM (Zv1X1)

130 Good luck, Catman, and stay in touch, let us know what happens !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 22, 2019 08:13 PM (c1yAg)

131 Afternoon all, nuddink of interest shooting wise. Co worker bought a Hammerli .22 in AR15 style, shoots well. Inch groups at 50 mtrs. He also brought a small boat as he handed in his semis in. He recons he made about $25K over what they cost him. I am $3K up on crap that cost me nothing and about to make another $8 to $9K on more worthless crap that cost me virtually nothing. All done through other mates on my behalf. Not a evil black gun amongst the lot.I have been given a few historical rifles and mags, etc as I may be able to keep them. ftp

Posted by: NZFrank with a M2 at September 22, 2019 08:14 PM (bgJ0E)

132 121 This would be my husband, who becomes stubborn and completely impervious to reason in high-stress situations. And he's too big for me to just drag to safety.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:10 PM (i/wJA)

Well, how opposed are you to shooting him in a situation like that?

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 22, 2019 08:14 PM (Zv1X1)

133 Grabagun has a package deal for a .45 XDE, 4 mags, small holster and a carry case for $433.
https://bit.ly/2muKUHO

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at September 22, 2019 08:14 PM (TLxpZ)

134 Are there any new Beretta 92s being made since the PX-4 came out?

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:15 PM (QSzhg)

135 121 This would be my husband, who becomes stubborn and completely impervious to reason in high-stress situations. And he's too big for me to just drag to safety.
Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:10 PM (i/wJA)

That's a tough call. Have you discussed with him what the two of you should do in the event (God forbid) you find yourselves in the middle of an active shooter situation?

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:15 PM (NWiLs)

136 sock_rat_eez, that's great - the pocket shooting with thrift store coats
Posted by: rhomboid at September 22, 2019 08:11 PM (QDnY+)

Agree. It sounds like something Paul Harrell would do. Actually, I'd be surprised if he hasn't.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:15 PM (t+qrx)

137 So that's what ball ammo is for? I learn something new here every week.
Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 07:49 PM (qc+VF)
------------

Current SWAT training is: two to the groin, followed by a shot to the head, because the head comes down and forward after a shot to the groin.

Heard this directly from a SWAT trainer. The idea behind the training is defeating body armor.

Posted by: blake - used pronoun salesman at September 22, 2019 08:16 PM (WEBkv)

138 Since I have had no where else to do practical shooting, I practice drawing at home and double/triple / full mag tap shooting at the range.

I also vary the distances out to 15 yards.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 22, 2019 08:16 PM (2DOZq)

139 I would think even the most stubborn when lead is flying 99 out of 100 people will try to get out of the area.

Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 08:17 PM (ZCEU2)

140 Insom, I have found that gaming out scenarios with him does not work.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:18 PM (i/wJA)

141
Agree. It sounds like something Paul Harrell would do. Actually, I'd be surprised if he hasn't.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:15 PM (t+qrx)

---
My old pocket holster was coming apart and I stupidly threw it away. I should have fired a few shots through it in a throwaway pair of pants, per Paul.

I'm not sure I'm on board with blasting away with my junk that close to the muzzle though.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:18 PM (cfSRQ)

142 139 I would think even the most stubborn when lead is flying 99 out of 100 people will try to get out of the area.
Posted by: Skip at September 22, 2019 08:17 PM (ZCEU2)

My goal is to skedaddle before the lead flies.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:19 PM (i/wJA)

143 Hell, my primary tactic for a gunfight is "Run away! Run away!"
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 22, 2019 07:34 PM (e0p0c)
Pretty much what I was getting at.

If I stand and fight, it's because I don't have a decent second option. Current viable second options include "Don't visit *-holes like Portland or Seattle."

Posted by: Long Running Fool at September 22, 2019 08:20 PM (RCsg2)

144 137 So that's what ball ammo is for? I learn something new here every week.
Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 07:49 PM (qc+VF)
------------

Current SWAT training is: two to the groin, followed by a shot to the head, because the head comes down and forward after a shot to the groin.

Heard this directly from a SWAT trainer. The idea behind the training is defeating body armor.
Posted by: blake - used pronoun salesman at September 22, 2019 08:16 PM (WEBkv)

Followed by a shot to the dog.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:20 PM (NWiLs)

145 That was my first thought too, rhomboid, but it turned out that even the crappiest coat I owned had a place in the world, like on the ground / under hood car work in the winter.
Thrift store was the easy answer.

Fun, yes !
Let us know how it goes !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 22, 2019 08:20 PM (c1yAg)

146 If I stand and fight, it's because I don't have a decent second option. Current viable second options include "Don't visit *-holes like Portland or Seattle."
Posted by: Long Running Fool at September 22, 2019 08:20 PM (RCsg2)
-----------

Yep.

Posted by: blake - used pronoun salesman at September 22, 2019 08:20 PM (WEBkv)

147 Imagine the Aztecs. According to earlier writers, they had been plagued by a series of bad omens.

Here comes Hernando. Paler than anyone else. In strange attire riding fearsome beasts, horses. And then when the Aztecs attack, these strangers use thunder against you.

Game over man.

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:20 PM (QSzhg)

148 If I win the Lottery, this is going in my arms closet...

https://youtu.be/6k8-CojccCk

...'cause I'll need lots of money to keep it properly fed.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at September 22, 2019 08:21 PM (W+kMI)

149 140 Insom, I have found that gaming out scenarios with him does not work.
Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:18 PM (i/wJA)

Oy. If you have kids, then get them to safety. Hopefully he'll go with you. If it's just you two, you have to decide whether preserving your own life takes priority over attempting to protect him in place and possibly lose yours.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:23 PM (NWiLs)

150 My old pocket holster was coming apart and I stupidly threw it away. I should have fired a few shots through it in a throwaway pair of pants, per Paul.

I'm not sure I'm on board with blasting away with my junk that close to the muzzle though.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:18 PM (cfSRQ)

Well, if you had to shoot through the pocket holster and the pants, ideally you would take your pants off before shooting someone.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:24 PM (t+qrx)

151 Thanks, Insom. I was just wondering if there was a protocol that preserves the most good. I'm sure the military or law enforcement runs into these situations.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:24 PM (i/wJA)

152 Win the lottery?

Get an MG-3 in 7.62NATO. 50 spare barrels. And 10,000 rounds.

Then have fun.

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:25 PM (QSzhg)

153 150 My old pocket holster was coming apart and I stupidly threw it away. I should have fired a few shots through it in a throwaway pair of pants, per Paul.

I'm not sure I'm on board with blasting away with my junk that close to the muzzle though.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:18 PM (cfSRQ)

Well, if you had to shoot through the pocket holster and the pants, ideally you would take your pants off before shooting someone.
Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:24 PM (t+qrx)

Never bring pants to a gunfight.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:25 PM (NWiLs)

154 Just got in off the range with N**** the Valiant. We're in Montana to see him off to Iraq. Took his new (well, used, but unfired) Browning Superposed 12 out on some clay pigeons. Fun, but mostly because of the company. Fun gun, smooth and gentle.

Posted by: Charles the Simple at September 22, 2019 08:25 PM (t2Lmw)

155 Never bring pants to a gunfight.

How about chaps ol chap?

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:26 PM (QSzhg)

156 151 Thanks, Insom. I was just wondering if there was a protocol that preserves the most good. I'm sure the military or law enforcement runs into these situations.
Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:24 PM (i/wJA)

It's a deeply personal decision that you'll have to make on your own. Hopefully the situation never arises.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:26 PM (NWiLs)

157 I figure law enforcement sees situations where people freeze instead of following directions.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:28 PM (i/wJA)

158 Get an MG-3 in 7.62NATO. 50 spare barrels. And 10,000 rounds.

Then have fun.
Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:25 PM (QSzhg)

That's about eight minutes of fun.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:29 PM (t+qrx)

159 Only a little OT:

this video never gets old.

https://twitter.com/Tropicow/status/1175540680845864966

3-gun, 14? years old.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 22, 2019 08:30 PM (c1yAg)

160 'That's about eight minutes of fun.'

Better than sex!

Posted by: freaked at September 22, 2019 08:30 PM (Tnijr)

161 Heard this directly from a SWAT trainer. The idea behind the training is defeating body armor.

Who wears Level IV armor?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at September 22, 2019 08:31 PM (lD3vL)

162 Who wears Level IV armor?
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at September 22, 2019 08:31 PM (lD3vL)
------------

Pistol.

Posted by: blake - used pronoun salesman at September 22, 2019 08:31 PM (WEBkv)

163 I was shot at or at least in front of and walking into the club that was being shot at. I had stucco / plaster in my hair from where the bullets hit the wall above my head. I saw the shooter on his motorcycle as he was shooting. Everything did kind of go to slow motion. I was young and dumb and indestructible and really didn't take in the seriousness of what happened. Just another Saturday night.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 22, 2019 08:31 PM (2DOZq)

164 thanks Grey Fox, that is the kind of counter comment I needed.

Posted by: Boulder t'hobo at September 22, 2019 08:32 PM (TazsE)

165 I read that the guys who pulled the LA bank robbery with automatic weapons that resulted in the shootout were wearing homemade armor partially made from steel belted tires.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 22, 2019 08:35 PM (2DOZq)

166 Interesting occurrence at church. The back entrance has been deemed usable only as an exit. The parish had an assessment done and it was determined that parishioners are safer if a gunman enters through the main entrance and cannot use the back entrance.
Now I'm not the brightest person on the planet but what's to keep an accomplice from letting the shooter in through the back entrance?
And who the heck is worrying this much about a possible shooting.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at September 22, 2019 08:36 PM (N3JsI)

167 Well, if you had to shoot through the pocket holster
and the pants, ideally you would take your pants off before shooting
someone.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:24 PM (t+qrx)

---
"Yeah, so we're going to get you on negligent discharge and also indecent exposure."

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:36 PM (cfSRQ)

168 Or shooter learns of this entry plan, tosses some firecrackers at the front door, and then runs to ambush everyone as they run out the back door.

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:37 PM (QSzhg)

169 "Yeah, so we're going to get you on negligent discharge and also indecent exposure."
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:36 PM (cfSRQ)

Something something "reasonable person doctrine" something.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:37 PM (t+qrx)

170 Any casualties yet?

Posted by: Weasel at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM (i6/76)

171 Hi Weasel
Looking forward to the Texas meetup,welcome to the ranch!

Posted by: RancherBob at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM (znYK8)

172 Anybody have experience with the Walther P22? It appears to be one of the most reliable semi-automatic .22 pistols.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM (H8QX8)

173 I saw Raggedy Hole Badassery open for Guns 'N Roses at The Whiskey in '82

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM (ZYB2s)

174 170 Any casualties yet?
Posted by: Weasel at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM (i6/76)

Only our dignity.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM (NWiLs)

175 Now I'm not the brightest person on the planet but what's to keep an accomplice from letting the shooter in through the back entrance?
And who the heck is worrying this much about a possible shooting.
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at September 22, 2019 08:36 PM (N3JsI)

I think the Florida school shooter was let in a side door. It was not even necessarily an accomplice.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM (i/wJA)

176 Yeah, so we're going to get you on negligent discharge

A little penicillin will clear that right up.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:39 PM (yQpMk)

177 Something something "reasonable person doctrine" something.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:37 PM (t+qrx)
---
If I use a six-inch barrel, I might get asked on a date, so there's always that. Which is nice.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:39 PM (cfSRQ)

178 Or shooter learns of this entry plan, tosses some firecrackers at the front door, and then runs to ambush everyone as they run out the back door.

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:37 PM (QSzhg)

I don't know whether to be disturbed or aroused that you have gamed this out.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:40 PM (yQpMk)

179 homemade armor partially made from steel belted tires.
Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions

I had no idea we were this close to face-colander times.

Posted by: mikeski at September 22, 2019 08:40 PM (P1f+c)

180 The church could set themselves up like a jewelry store and the preacher can buzz people in.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 22, 2019 08:40 PM (2DOZq)

181 never enough caffeine: every one is worried about 4chan incel loners. they don't have accomplices.

terror by a team isn't as common these days. ISIS is dead and Qaeda won't cross the Saudis.

I wonder about Hizb though.

Posted by: Boulder t'hobo at September 22, 2019 08:41 PM (TazsE)

182 Our minister has a Sig in the pulpit.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:41 PM (yQpMk)

183 Question:

Is $126 a good price on a PACT 3 shooting timer?

Brand new in box.

Let me know your thoughts, as I'm buying a quality timer for the TxMoMeet.

And I want an actual timer. I've never heard an "app" based one with a loud enough phone.

Thanks!

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at September 22, 2019 08:42 PM (QzJWU)

184 I haven't been on the high school campus for awhile, but it sounds like they've instituted some precautions that are less effective than they think. I've heard they have screening at the entrance now, maybe metal detectors.

Haven't the school shootings in recent years happened at schools with metal detectors, or the shooter easily otherwise avoided any screening?

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:42 PM (i/wJA)

185 Baba Booey

Baba Booey

Posted by: hoss at September 22, 2019 08:43 PM (Ct+D2)

186 Grumpy, it is normally called flushing the game. In this case the evil monster is hunting two-legs. So not really that much of a leap.

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:43 PM (QSzhg)

187 (((AG))) over on Twitter is, I guess, believes the whole Biden/Ukraine is some conspiracy theory? wth?

Posted by: JPV at September 22, 2019 08:43 PM (T6elx)

188 huh?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 08:43 PM (ZYB2s)

189
People always look at rate of fire, and tend 1) underestimate the effectiveness of armor against muscle-powdered weapons and 2) underestimate the range and accuracy of early firearms.
Posted by: Grey Fox

People whose lives depended on it, chose guns.

Posted by: Jean at September 22, 2019 08:43 PM (B7KlG)

190 Our minister has a Sig in the pulpit.
Posted by: Grump928(C)

It's filled with mercy.

Posted by: Nicholas D. Wolfwood at September 22, 2019 08:44 PM (P1f+c)

191 Grump. That's fabulous that your minister is armed.
We're in a Dayton suburb, I wonder if this has anything to do with the downtown shooting a few weeks ago. Lots of families with young kids. May have panicked people. The homicidal maniac lived not too far from the church.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at September 22, 2019 08:44 PM (N3JsI)

192 Our minister has a Sig in the pulpit.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:41 PM (yQpMk)

That's good. Command of the high ground is critical.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 08:44 PM (ZYB2s)

193 182
Our minister has a Sig in the pulpit.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:41 PM (yQpMk)

---
St. Martin of Muzzle Velocity?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:44 PM (cfSRQ)

194 Going out for a walk. Clear my head before resuming my homework.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:44 PM (i/wJA)

195 I man the Narthex of our church. Unfortunately I only have 7 rounds. I hope that if it comes to something bad, I will discover that there are other armed parishioners.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:45 PM (yQpMk)

196 JPV, what's with the (((hugz))) ?

Posted by: Boulder t'hobo at September 22, 2019 08:45 PM (TazsE)

197 That's good. Command of the high ground is critical.

I'm actually surprised that he has not asked me to armor the pulpit.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:45 PM (yQpMk)

198 Our flautist, drummer, guitar player, pianist, and most of the elders are armed.

Posted by: Emmie at September 22, 2019 08:46 PM (i/wJA)

199 I man the Narthex of our church.

Just be sure you have a good man in the apse.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 08:46 PM (ZYB2s)

200 "But Father, why do you want your robes and stole in Kevlar?"

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 08:46 PM (QSzhg)

201 Is $126 a good price on a PACT 3 shooting timer?

Brand new in box.

That's about one Starbuck's latte less than on Amazon so if it's from an individual seller, I think I'd go the extra to get it retail.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at September 22, 2019 08:46 PM (qc+VF)

202 Our minister has a Sig in the pulpit.
Posted by: Grump928(C)

Does he have love and hate tattooed on his knuckles?

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 22, 2019 08:46 PM (2DOZq)

203 Late to the party - just got back from church.

I took two newbies to the range this week. Standard fare - simply introduced them to firearm safety and they shot (poorly) both a 9mm Shield and later, an AR platform. Just like my other new shooters this month, they dug the AR and couldn't understand all the fuss from the libtards and their desire to deny the proles use of them. Loved that platform and I believe will vote accordingly. Yeah our team!!

Both of them had a ball and I am certain, will be back.

My range does not allow shooting from a holster. So, I am a newbie myself in defensive shooting. I must correct that.

Posted by: Tonypete at September 22, 2019 08:47 PM (Y4EXg)

204 Does he have love and hate tattooed on his knuckles?
Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 22, 2019 08:46 PM (2DOZq)

And a snakeskin suit and a smiling skull ring.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 08:48 PM (ZYB2s)

205 I do think wikipeople have it wrong, and sp. is Babalooie. I could be stupid, but definitely, Boo Boo was Yogi the Bear's sidekick. I loved all those guys - mustn't forget Top Cat, too. Urban dystopian cartoon ahead of its time right there, buddy.

I can hear it in my mind's eye, um, my vivid imagination like it was yesterday, "Hey Babalooie."

You had to be there.

Posted by: Shorty at September 22, 2019 08:49 PM (255O/)

206 I'm actually surprised that he has not asked me to armor the pulpit.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:45 PM (yQpMk)

I looked into ballistic blankets a while ago. Gosh, those things aren't cheap. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:49 PM (t+qrx)

207 Does he have love and hate tattooed on his knuckles?

LCMS RULZ

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 08:49 PM (yQpMk)

208 203
Late to the party - just got back from church.

I took two newbies to the range this week. Standard fare - simply
introduced them to firearm safety and they shot (poorly) both a 9mm
Shield and later, an AR platform. Just like my other new shooters this
month, they dug the AR and couldn't understand all the fuss from the
libtards and their desire to deny the proles use of them. Loved that
platform and I believe will vote accordingly. Yeah our team!!

Both of them had a ball and I am certain, will be back.

My range does not allow shooting from a holster. So, I am a newbie myself in defensive shooting. I must correct that.

Posted by: Tonypete at September 22, 2019 08:47 PM (Y4EXg)

---
Have you thought about acquiring a .22 pistol? I find it's handy to train new shooters.

Plus, fun.

I have a Sig Mosquito but I'm looking at swapping it out for a Beretta Neo. Anyone have Neo? Thoughts?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:49 PM (cfSRQ)

209 @realDonaldTrump
Breaking News: The Ukrainian Government just said they weren't pressured at all during the "nice" call. Sleepy Joe Biden, on the other hand, forced a tough prosecutor out from investigating his son's company by threat of not giving big dollars to Ukraine. That's the real story!

Fuck you. War.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 22, 2019 08:51 PM (ZLI7S)

210
I looked into ballistic blankets a while ago. Gosh, those things aren't cheap. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:49 PM (t+qrx)

---
Steel plate is probably cheaper, especially if you can pick up scrap pieces. Depends on how much you want to armor.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:52 PM (cfSRQ)

211 The weakest part of my SD practice is the draw and puting the gun in battery. I could blame that on the club rules where I shoot but I should still do it at home WITH AN UNLOADED GUN. This is especially important since I pocket carry.

PS: With pocket carry I clean off the lint every few days. This isn't a full cleaning, just wiping down the gun and making sure it functions properly.

Posted by: JTB at September 22, 2019 08:55 PM (bmdz3)

212 ...I have a Sig Mosquito but I'm looking at swapping it out for a Beretta Neo. Anyone have Neo? Thoughts?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:49 PM (cfSRQ)

Browning Buckmark. I've got a UDX Ultimate Rosewood, but that's just 'cause she's so pretty.

Thing about the Buckmark, is that the grip (in the non-finger-grooved version) is a near duplicate of the vaunted 1911. And the safety, slide release and magazine release are all in the 1911 locations.

This, along with the fact that it weighs in about the 1911's heft, and that the grip "feel" is much closer to the actual 1911 than is Ruger's 22/45, favors the Browning.

But when you add the proverbial "breaks like a glass rod" trigger, and the VERY superior fit, finish and craftsmanship, and it's an undisputed win for the Browning Buckmark.

Except, that is, for the price.

The Browning is going to cost more. $100 more, in most cases.

But the "it's worth it" factor weighs heavily here, and the Browning has THAT, in abundance.

Oh, and my feeds every kind of ammo, and is frighteningly accurate with CCI Mini-Mags, and even Federal Match.

That's my $0.02.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at September 22, 2019 08:57 PM (QzJWU)

213
OK, I'm out. The "responsible adult" bell rings in seven hours

thx for the thread, Weasel

Posted by: AltonJackson at September 22, 2019 08:58 PM (prqrF)

214 I might be able to have a wwII .06 machine gun at the Texas meetup... would anyone be interested in seeing that?

Posted by: RancherBob at September 22, 2019 08:59 PM (znYK8)

215 Steel plate is probably cheaper, especially if you can pick up scrap pieces. Depends on how much you want to armor.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 08:52 PM (cfSRQ)

Yup.....here is old Russian body armor from 1944 in Finland.

https://tinyurl.com/y5mzjfca

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at September 22, 2019 08:59 PM (Z+IKu)

216 Well, if you had to shoot through the pocket holster and the pants, ideally you would take your pants off before shooting someone.
Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 08:24 PM

Don't plan on shooting some in the Book Thread, then.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 09:01 PM (DMUuz)

217 ...I might be able to have a wwII .06 machine gun at the Texas meetup... would anyone be interested in seeing that?

Posted by: RancherBob at September 22, 2019 08:59 PM (znYK

I'll sign up right now to fire a 100 rd. belt. Price it within reason, and split the profit between the owner of the MG and towards expenses for the Mo Meet itself.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at September 22, 2019 09:01 PM (QzJWU)

218 Shorty, TopCat's buddy was Benny, right?

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 09:02 PM (UUkQp)

219 PS: With pocket carry I clean off the lint every few days. This isn't a full cleaning, just wiping down the gun and making sure it functions properly.

It's cotton smeg.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 09:02 PM (yQpMk)

220 Newbies should be given a Ruger Mk. III, disassembled.

When they have reassembled it, they may proceed.

;-)

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 09:04 PM (DMUuz)

221 Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

I have owned a Beretta Neo and 10 magazines for it for over a decade.

My take is it is a stylish gun that points very easily. It is fun to shoot. Easy to clean. And it is fragile on accepting cheap 22LR shells. Jams and FTF happen.

High quality, expensive, match shells work fine. I do not have the gunsmithing skills to fix the issue of mass produced WalMart grade shells jamming.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at September 22, 2019 09:05 PM (u82oZ)

222 Newbies should be given a Ruger Mk. III, disassembled.

When they have reassembled it, they may proceed.

;-)
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 09:04 PM (DMUuz)

I get it. This is kind of like making the Karate Kid wax Mr. Miyagi's car, right?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 09:07 PM (ZYB2s)

223

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 09:08 PM (UUkQp)

224 I've practiced rolling off the bed, grabbing my 870 and belly crawling to the bathroom to call 911.

Posted by: S.Lynn at September 22, 2019 09:08 PM (oYThS)

225 Who is (((AG)))?

Posted by: IrishEi at September 22, 2019 09:08 PM (sGotD)

226 Well that 223 was a blank. Bad primer?

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 09:08 PM (UUkQp)

227 "224 I've practiced rolling off the bed, grabbing my 870 and belly crawling to the bathroom to call 911.

Posted by: S.Lynn at September 22, 2019 09:08 PM (oYThS) "

Good realistic scenario.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 22, 2019 09:09 PM (c1yAg)

228 Only our dignity.
Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 08:38 PM

* looks around in amazement *

It's back in stock?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 09:09 PM (DMUuz)

229 Probably a Tull Ammo round...

Posted by: Anna Puma at September 22, 2019 09:09 PM (QSzhg)

230 G'night everyone, and thanks, Weasel !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 22, 2019 09:10 PM (c1yAg)

231 I get it. This is kind of like making the Karate Kid wax Mr. Miyagi's car, right?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 09:07 PM

Indeed. Or Grasshopper snatching the pebble from the palm.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 09:12 PM (DMUuz)

232 Well that 223 was a blank. Bad primer?

Bolt bounce. Try an H2 buffer in it.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 22, 2019 09:13 PM (yQpMk)

233 I get it. This is kind of like making the Karate Kid wax Mr. Miyagi's car, right?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 22, 2019 09:07 PM (ZYB2s)

Maybe like leaving his car in a lousy part of town and having him track down all the parts and reassemble them into a functioning car.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 09:13 PM (t+qrx)

234 Tulammo is only good for russkie gubs, Anna, but yeah you're right.

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 09:13 PM (UUkQp)

235 Mr Grasshopper can't snatch themselves from my shoes out here. never seen so many stupid bugs out before this year

Posted by: Boulder t'hobo at September 22, 2019 09:13 PM (TazsE)

236 Boulder t'hobo

Has Denver Metro gotten buggier, or is it just the great unwashed showing up in bigger numbers?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at September 22, 2019 09:17 PM (u82oZ)

237 ... "setting up an indoor range". Very curious about that. It sounds ideal.

I would like to do that but have no idea.
First thing that comes to mind is the backstop.
And then the noise. Guess a low load 22 wouldn't annoy the neighbors.

Would appreciate some tips. Thanks.

Posted by: Frosty at September 22, 2019 09:17 PM (zNIcM)

238 My neighbor just called. She wants to borrow the cat carrier. Because she's on the way back from Tahquamenon Falls, and found an animal stunned on the side of the road. She thought it was an osprey, but it might be an owl. It's in a plastic bin right now. She wants the carrier to take it to the DNR (I told her that the DNR, to say nothing of the feds, may take issue with this action). She had to hang up the phone because some kid of raptor-borne lice have infested her car and are now jumping all over her (and presumably her daughter) as she's driving back from Tahquamenon Falls on a Sunday night.

I guess I'll go put the cat carrier on the porch.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 09:17 PM (t+qrx)

239 Frosty

I've seen electronic indoor ranges for sale. Price is getting lower for those.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at September 22, 2019 09:18 PM (u82oZ)

240 i'm always worried that one day we will be out, i'll see a threat, and Resident 3vil will want to argue about stuff, because she's a "strong independent woman who can think for herself" and not do what she's told when there is not time to discuss shit, just do it.

i see things other people don't because i had a different upbringing and jobs than most people.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 22, 2019 09:21 PM (VXS7N)

241 if the lice/vermin are jumping off, the animal is dead.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 22, 2019 09:22 PM (VXS7N)

242 I'm done, folks. Good fun, Weasel.

Posted by: Eromero at September 22, 2019 09:23 PM (UUkQp)

243 Work tomorrow.

Have a blessed night everyone.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at September 22, 2019 09:24 PM (u82oZ)

244 if the lice/vermin are jumping off, the animal is dead.
Posted by: redc1c4 at September 22, 2019 09:22 PM (VXS7N)

That's what I was thinking too. I was thinking a lot of things as the story unfolded, but it all came down to "ok, I will put the carrier on your porch. Have a good evening, please drive safely."

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 09:24 PM (t+qrx)

245 Newbies should be given a Ruger Mk. III, disassembled.

When they have reassembled it, they may proceed.

;-)

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 22, 2019 09:04 PM (DMUuz)
---
that is just cruel.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 22, 2019 09:24 PM (VXS7N)

246 Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 09:17 PM (t+qrx)

Oh dear, that sounds like quite a night.

Posted by: Jewells45 at September 22, 2019 09:25 PM (dUJdY)

247 239 Frosty

I've seen electronic indoor ranges for sale. Price is getting lower for those.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at September 22, 2019 09:18 PM (u82oZ)

Weasel ran some of that info a while back. But if I interpreted him correctly he set up an indoor range at home and it wasn't electronic. That is very cool.
I want to do that.

Ignites Weasel Signal.

Posted by: Frosty at September 22, 2019 09:25 PM (zNIcM)

248 Forgot.

Thank you Weasel. I need to work on my 16 ga shooting skeet skills. I suck at that.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at September 22, 2019 09:25 PM (u82oZ)

249 Mitt Romney
45s

If the president asked or pressured Ukraine's president to investigate his political rival, either directly or indirectly or through his personal attorney, it would be extremely troubling in the extreme.
Critical for the facts to come out.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 22, 2019 09:27 PM (o1fzk)

250 Hogmartin #38:
raptor-borne lice have infested her car and are now jumping all over her (and presumably her daughter)

Ugh. Grim smile of bemused sympathy. "No good deed goes unrewarded."

Sometimes you can dodge some of that "reward."

We saw an injured owl on the side of the road, looked like broken wing from a car hit.

You know those videos where the injured wild animal seems to recognize that the human is trying to help and don't go all feral on your face? As the kids say, yeah, no. No way were we approaching that still-active dinosaur.

Called the county sheriff, who called the emergency pet vet authorized to help. I don't recall whether we ever found out if it survived.

Posted by: mindful webworker - barely comprehensible at September 22, 2019 09:28 PM (rTqAd)

251 I guess I'll go put the cat carrier on the porch.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 09:17 PM (t+qrx)

---
I think there are DNR conservation officers between you and the U.P.

Call it a hunch.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 09:28 PM (cfSRQ)

252 Some years ago a Kite was flying in my backyard and my neighbor shot it. He was too far away to kill it so my wife and I took it to a vet place that specialized in wild animals.

I've seen three kites in my whole life and this dumbass shoots one. Anybody here live in an area of Kite infestation?

Posted by: Frosty at September 22, 2019 09:30 PM (zNIcM)

253 If the president asked or pressured Ukraine's
president to investigate his political rival, either directly or
indirectly or through his personal attorney, it would be extremely
troubling in the extreme.
Critical for the facts to come out.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 22, 2019 09:27 PM (o1fzk)

---
What if Ukraine was trying to tell us the guy was corrupt but Obama blocked all the channels?

How does Mitt feel about that?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 09:30 PM (cfSRQ)

254
If the president asked or pressured ~~Ukraine's president~~ the Department of Justice and CIA to investigate his political rival, either directly or indirectly or through his personal attorney, it would be extremely troubling in the extreme.
Critical for the facts to come out.
Posted by: JoeF
---------

Edited

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 22, 2019 09:30 PM (xSo9G)

255 Mitt Romney
45s
If the president asked or pressured Ukraine's president to investigate his political rival, either directly or indirectly or through his personal attorney, it would be extremely troubling in the extreme.
Critical for the facts to come out.
Posted by: JoeF. at September 22, 2019 09:27 PM (o1fzk)
~~~~~

Will no one rid us of this meddlesome pest?

Posted by: IrishEi at September 22, 2019 09:31 PM (sGotD)

256 Hmm . Caught a whiff of Barrel there.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 22, 2019 09:31 PM (xSo9G)

257 Was the kid upset their kite was ruined?

Posted by: catman at September 22, 2019 09:31 PM (4HMlb)

258 252
Some years ago a Kite was flying in my backyard and my neighbor shot it.
He was too far away to kill it so my wife and I took it to a vet place
that specialized in wild animals.

I've seen three kites in my whole life and this dumbass shoots one. Anybody here live in an area of Kite infestation?

Posted by: Frosty at September 22, 2019 09:30 PM (zNIcM)

---
I had an art class in middle school where we made triangle Kites. They descended like a plague on the surrounding area.

No one shot at them, though.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 09:31 PM (cfSRQ)

259 I love my neighbor but seriously, couldn't she have just killed someone instead? I might have a chance at beating an accessory-after-the-fact rap for hiding a body, but the DNR and the Fish and Wildlife Service? Migratory, possibly protected raptor? *shudder*

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 09:32 PM (t+qrx)

260 ONT

Posted by: Insomniac at September 22, 2019 09:32 PM (NWiLs)

261 Just double-checked this story with Milady.

She doesn't remember any of it.

I'm probably making the whole thing up, but, who cares? It's the inferwebz.

ONT Nood, BTW
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=383421

Posted by: mindful webworker - barely comprehensible at September 22, 2019 09:33 PM (rTqAd)

262 Since I can't really practice draw or follow-up
shots, I've been working on presentation and sight acquisition. Starting
from compressed ready (pistol level and downrange, between waist and
chest height, elbows bent with the pistol pulled in), pick a point on
the target and raise the pistol to firing height and press out towards
the target while visually acquiring the front sight. Fire when it's
lined up, and follow through to acquire the same picture after recoil. I
also download the magazines with a different number of rounds, so I
have to reload during the string, and I don't know when it'll be.

https://youtu.be/Ctn7k5JBRTg

Posted by: hogmartin at September 22, 2019 07:34 PM (t+qrx)
I was going to suggest this as a compromise. This is basically the second half of the draw taught by many agencies, where the "push out" onto the target, acquiring their sight picture and squeezing off the first round.You can practice the full draw at home with an empty firearm.

Posted by: elliot at September 22, 2019 09:33 PM (1PAtI)

263 Mitt Romney needs to put a sock in it.

Posted by: Frosty at September 22, 2019 09:34 PM (zNIcM)

264 I repeated Mitt Romney's comment word for word to illustrate what a weasel he is.
Has he ever demanded we should look into BIDEN'S dealings with the Ukraine?
Has he ever asked that we look into the Deep States ongoing effort to get ride of Trump?

Romney is a backstabbing turd---and an obvious, predictable one at that.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 22, 2019 09:35 PM (o1fzk)

265

... I took two newbies to the range this week. Standard fare - simply introduced them to firearm safety and they shot (poorly) both a 9mm Shield and later, an AR platform. Just like my other new shooters this month, they dug the AR and couldn't understand all the fuss from the libtards and their desire to deny the proles use of them...

Posted by: Tonypete at September 22, 2019 08:47 PM (Y4EXg)

Messaging.

NRA (etc) have tried to get away from the "AR-15" by declaring the format to be the "Modern Sporting Rifle".

If they are going to go with renaming things for spin just call it a general purpose rifle. No caps, nothing special. Get news type, press, and politicians who are pro 2nd to just the platform that, general purpose rifle. Nothing special.

It's just a general purpose rifle.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at September 22, 2019 09:37 PM (1g7ch)

266 >>>I had an art class in middle school where we made triangle Kites. They descended like a plague on the surrounding area.

No one shot at them, though.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 22, 2019 09:31 PM (cfSRQ)

Genius

A Kite is a small hawk that has the ability to hover.

Posted by: Frosty at September 22, 2019 09:37 PM (zNIcM)

267 They are really cool They would hunt in Downtown ATL near Grant Park for prey..

Posted by: catman at September 22, 2019 09:41 PM (4HMlb)

268 RE:comment 172....walther P 22, owned several, great little guns. mrs.Jasons house gun is a P-22 with a Tactical Inovations suppressor.

Posted by: jasonj at September 22, 2019 09:43 PM (qSQLQ)

269 Anyone fired the Bond Bullpup9? Can't find one locally to shoot.
Posted by: Jean at September 22, 2019 08:03 PM (B7KlG)

Saw one at the Mesa gun show yesterday.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 22, 2019 10:11 PM (jEgzt)

270 If your range doesn't allow reasonably realistic training, then you need to go find a range that does. Or some public land, should you be lucky enough to have some you can drive out to.

IDPA and other competitive options are very good at letting you practice under types of stress that are hard to arrange on your own. However, if you're just starting out with serious training at this late point, they offer a poor ratio of training to time and money spent. And they are NOT a substitute for focused training; the issue is not that it's a game, but that as games that need to cycle lots of competitors through quickly, they have additional safety rules and conventions that are counterproductive for fighting-focused training.

You will never, ever see a shooting match allow anything similar to a serious live-fire exercise. You are likely better served by taking the funds needed for a few competitions and spending them on a couple of classes - first a basic level, then a more advanced class of the sort that usually requires basic courses first. You should come away from those with a set of skills and drills to practice and an understanding of what they're about.

Ignoring important non-shooting skills like medical stuff, this is pretty much the hierarchy of things to learn about shooting;

1. the fundamental rules2. the manual of arms for your firearm3. the basics of hitting a static target on a square range (sights, breathing, trigger, etc)4. positional shooting (including cars and the use of holsters- this is important) and shooting on the move5. the basics of fighting with a partner6. fighting with multiple pairs of people - the fundamental small unit drills
..Most yokels do 3, and maybe a little of 1 so they don't get booted from a range. Most studious civilian shooters get 1-3 but never move beyond it.

4 is adequate for self defense. If you do not make it to 5, you are likely to get your shit wrecked in anything other than a self defense shooting. It is not hard to learn, but it is significantly harder to DO than people realize until they try it.

Posted by: lurker (the other one, but spelled with a P) at September 22, 2019 10:51 PM (67XdO)

271 Hola! All my friends in gray boxes! Commenting before being willowed, I hope. Just back from a weekend camp with my Scouts at Bowman Lake, Glacier NP. We took our kayaks. Every three years or so, each Scout builds his own 17 ft sea-rated kayak. We had fun, but no fish pics for Bandersnatch. OTOH, LAST week I zero'ed the 30-06 and THIS week, i'ma put a new scope on my BM-59. That's a semi auto M1 made by Beretta with a 20 round removable box magazine. Now, to go read what everyone else did. And before this closes, ThanX! Weasel!

McGyver, out

Posted by: McGyver at September 22, 2019 10:54 PM (gMngZ)

272 270 If your range doesn't allow reasonably realistic training, then you need to go find a range that does. Or some public land, should you be lucky enough to have some you can drive out to.

---

I've been to enough public ranges with holes in the ceilings, stall walls, and even the walls behind the stalls (in the opposite direction that guns should be fired) that I can understand why the limit movements that aren't down range.

I took my 10 Y.O. son to the range last month for the first time, and he was shocked at how many holes were in places they shouldn't be.

Posted by: elliot at September 22, 2019 11:18 PM (1PAtI)

273 Lovely threads these days, boys, just lovely.
A Monday morning gripe:

"...these are an excellent training tool."

WTF? Are you British, writing in Britain? The mised use of plural and singular in a sentence has become a "thing" of late and it is as irritating as a "Climate Change" rally.

It is, they are.

Posted by: Dan Patterson at September 23, 2019 04:52 AM (AsjQP)

274 No range time but I saw a wonderful image of the great Italian vocalist Laura Macri at the range with a revolver on my FB page this morning.

Not only is she talented and has good taste in hobbies...well, she is so bloody hot...too bad she was taken off the market not long ago.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at September 23, 2019 06:51 AM (bFYPm)

275 Lovely threads these days, boys, just lovely.
A Monday morning gripe:

"...these are an excellent training tool."

WTF? Are you British, writing in Britain? The mised use of plural and singular in a sentence has become a "thing" of late and it is as irritating as a "Climate Change" rally.

It is, they are.

Posted by: Dan Patterson at September 23, 2019 04:52 AM (AsjQP)
-----
Heh - you know I actually changed that sentence. Then it didn't look right so I was going to change it back again. Then I decided I didn't give a shit because it wasn't important and just finished the thread!

Posted by: Weasel at September 23, 2019 09:19 AM (RrqtM)

276 You is my favorite weasel, you is.

Posted by: Dan Patterson at September 23, 2019 09:40 AM (ln5wD)

277 I'm glad I are.

Posted by: Weasel at September 23, 2019 10:15 AM (RrqtM)

278 And El-Ka-Bong hits someone on the head with his Ka-Bonger Giutar

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at September 23, 2019 04:54 PM (wGqjj)

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