Gun Thread: It Just Blowed Up! [Weasel]

No worries - That'll buff out!

When it comes to ruining your day, this is a pretty effective way to do it.

Just Some Honest Holster Wear

Today let's talk about getting a bigger bang than expected. Or a smaller bang than expected. Or pretty much any sort of bang other than expected.

Squib Loads and Barrel Blockages
Over the years, I have reloaded a lot of handgun and rifle ammunition, and have had a squib load block the barrel exactly once. When I pulled the trigger, I could tell the recoil and sound were completely wrong and fortunately didn't pull the trigger again. After making the gun safe I took a peek and could see the bullet resting peacefully about 1/4 inch from the end of the barrel just waiting to cause a disaster. Ruh Roh!

What had happened is this; I was load testing and measuring muzzle velocity in a series of cartridges with decreasing powder charges, and although still above the published minimum, this particular round didn't make it out of the barrel. Muzzle velocity = 0 feet per second. Test concluded.

And it can happen with commercial ammunition, too!

There are a couple of lessons here. First, pay attention to what the hell is going on while you're shooting. It is possible to become so focused on the target, and looking good for the range babes, that you lose sight of everything else. If something jams, or breaks, or sounds and feels different, stop pulling the trigger and investigate. If you're a new shooter and not quite sure what to do, put the gun down (pointed in a safe direction!!) and call over the RSO. Explain what you think is going on and let them help you. Second, be very careful when reloading. Things can go wrong even when you haven't done anything overtly retarded. I was trying to find a lower velocity accuracy node and while I was technically above the minimum published load, apparently the bullet didn't get the memo. If I hadn't realized what had happened, I could have turned an annoyance (tapping the bullet out later) into a big mess - ruining the barrel of a nice revolver, or worse.

How is This Even Possible?

Here's an extremely lucky cat who just used up eleven lives and is fortunate to have only ruined a barrel. Hands and fingers and eyeballs are much more difficult to replace. Did someone really pull the trigger that many times, even stopping to reload the gun, without realizing something was wrong?

And speaking of reloading...

Big Reloading No-No: Double Charge or Wrong Powder
Reloading can be fun and a rewarding part of shooting. For competitive shooters it can be a necessity, and for normal people it can be an economical way to shoot more and not be totally dependent on retail ammunition supply. It can also turn a fun day at the range into a complete nightmare if you are not absolutely focused on the job at hand while at the reloading bench. I'm pretty cautious by nature, and even more so while I'm reloading. Just as there are safety rules to follow while handling firearms, some must also be followed while reloading.

First, I allow zero distractions. Realizing my limited mental faculties do not permit me to do even two simple things at once, I don't watch TV or listen to the radio while I'm reloading. I don't even want anyone talking to me while I'm at the reloading bench, and will stop what I'm doing if a distraction presents itself. I pause at each step and check my work.

Can you Tell a Difference?

The biggest potential for excitement relates to powder. When I started reloading I was surprised to learn there are literally hundreds of types of gunpowder all burning at different rates. The unit of measure for gunpowder is the grain (gr) which is equal to 1/7000th of a pound. In some cases, a safe load can become unsafe when it varies by as little as a few tenths of one grain, so imagine the mayhem if you inadvertently doubled the amount of powder in a cartridge. One good way to avoid this is by selecting a powder in which the desired load cannot be doubled without overflowing the case (volumetrically greater than 50% of the case capacity). Hopefully the observant reloader will notice gunpowder spilling all over the place and make some adjustments. Another problem is forgetting the powder altogether - see squib, above - and I visually check the powder level in each case before seating the bullet.

Confusing on Purpose?

A mistake with potentially disastrous consequences is simply using the wrong powder, and it's easy to do if you're not paying attention. Pressures developed in modern cartridges can easily exceed 50,000 psi and selecting the incorrect powder, for example using a fast burning powder in place of a slow one, can easily exceed the design pressures of the gun and result in a catastrophic failure. The only way I know to help prevent this is to never keep more than one powder on the reloading bench at a time and always check and recheck the powder you have selected before beginning a reloading session.

This Is Not Bueno

Have any of the reloaders among us had an accident (or a scare) related to reloading? What happened and how would you recommend preventing it from happening again?

*******

Link-O-Rama
Cool Video - .22LR Ammunition Manufacture
SAAMI - Sporting Arms and Manufacturer's Institute
Article: Chamber Pressure Measurement
Chart: Cartridge Pressures

***This Old Cartridge***

54 Burnside Cartridge

This week we have another submission from Neon Madman, who frankly at this point is just showing off!

This is the .54 Burnside cartridge, used in the Civil War carbine of the same name. Ambrose Burnside was a gunsmith and businessman who had resigned his military commission before the war to work full-time on his design for a breechloading carbine. This was not truly a self-contained cartridge, it still used an external percussion cap to ignite the black powder charge thru a small hole in the tapered end of the cartridge. The Burnside carbine was the third most popular in the war (after the Sharps carbine and the Spencer carbine). Reenactors can still shoot it today, using new cartridge cases sold by the good people at Dixie Gun Works.
After the war, Burnside went on to serve three terms as Governor of Rhode Island, a term as U.S. Senator, and was the first president of the National Rifle Association.

Thanks again for making all other entries inadequate, Neon Madman!

***This Old Cookbook***

Greatest Cookbook Ever

OK you clowns - buy a copy of the cookbook. If you already have one for your own bad self, then give one as a gift this season. Remember; it's only pennies per day, all proceeds go to charity, and if you don't buy a copy then bluebell will be sad.

And you wouldn't like bluebell when she's sad.

Yes! I want to be a WeaselWarrior and prevent sadness in bluebell!!

*************

Please note the new and improved gmail account MoronGunThread for sending in stories and pictures. Thanks for your patience and please let me know if you have any more trouble (with the email). Again, that's morongunthread at gmail dot com. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:05 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 first

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at November 18, 2018 07:06 PM (H5knJ)

2 Related, Bugs Bunny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJKcdlj-Uiw

Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2018 07:07 PM (Evws/)

3 There is a video of guys rapid firing a AR until it fails

Posted by: Skip at November 18, 2018 07:08 PM (6VrXf)

4 I was at Sig Sauer once while they were failure testing barrels. I seem to recall the goal was 10,000 rounds.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:10 PM (MVjcR)

5 What is that picture of?
11 jammed bullets inside of a barrel?

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:11 PM (miE9U)

6 With 11 rounds stuck in it, that's a high-capacity barrel right there. Totally illegal in California.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 18, 2018 07:12 PM (HJhxx)

7 Woah, that M1A had a bad day. It frigging grenaded.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 18, 2018 07:12 PM (9Om/r)

8 There is a video of guys rapid firing a AR until it fails
Posted by: Skip at November 18, 2018 07:08 PM (6VrXf)

And another with a suppressed M249 fired continuously until (after) the suppressor glows red and gets droopy and then falls off.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 07:12 PM (t+qrx)

9 Only gun I saw destroy itself were Gau-8As

Posted by: Skip at November 18, 2018 07:12 PM (6VrXf)

10 5 What is that picture of?
11 jammed bullets inside of a barrel?
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:11 PM (miE9U)
-----
Yep!

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (MVjcR)

11 Depressing/Aggravating News:

https://tinyurl.com/yc9rz2l2

Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (EbOpT)

12 Surfperch, aren't bump stocks kind of useless anyway? That's what I remember reading.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (miE9U)

13 What is that picture of?
11 jammed bullets inside of a barrel?
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:11 PM (miE9U)
-----
Yep!
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (MVjcR)

How did that happen?

Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (EbOpT)

14 Ouch, that M1A looks exactly like.....one I've seen.

Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 07:14 PM (zLDYs)

15 I am not happy with my Walter PK-22.
May be buying Mrs D sometynew for Xmas.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 18, 2018 07:14 PM (0tfLf)

16
Yep!
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (MVjcR)

How did that happen?
Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (EbOpT)
------
Not sure, but it appears somebody kept shooting after the first one got stuck.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:15 PM (MVjcR)

17 Weasel, thanks.

I assume if a bullet isn't proceeding EXACTLY straight out of a barrel, it can jam inside.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:15 PM (miE9U)

18 Weasel, I assume it's a miracle the gun didn't explode?

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:15 PM (miE9U)

19 (I assume a lot tonight)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:15 PM (miE9U)

20 Is this thread safe to be queer? Asking for my wife.

Posted by: Cuckstar Rick Wilson at November 18, 2018 07:16 PM (yhf6w)

21 It's Thanksgiving week already. I was totally not paying attention.

And those are some nasty kabooms.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2018 07:16 PM (NWiLs)

22 Never a kaboom, but close. Like a few years back with a .357 SIG cartridge in a .40 Smith & Wesson mag. A little voice said "why don't you check each one just to make sure..." Yup.

Posted by: Skookumchuk at November 18, 2018 07:17 PM (CeJUf)

23 13 What is that picture of?
11 jammed bullets inside of a barrel?
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:11 PM (miE9U)
-----
Yep!
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (MVjcR)

How did that happen?
Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (EbOpT)

Sometimes, Surfperch, when a bullet loves a gun barrel very very much...

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2018 07:17 PM (NWiLs)

24 That is one heck of a strong barrel to do that. Is it for real?

Posted by: freaked at November 18, 2018 07:17 PM (UdKB7)

25 Was talking with someone on the gun thread last week about primer drag on my Sig P365. I had some slight drag on mine the last time I shot it but also noticed that there is primer drag on my Glock 43 and it is about the same as the Sig P365.

Did some searching around the internet recently and it appears that a whole lot of people are getting primer drag from compact and sub compact 9mm pistols no matter who makes them.

Not sure slight primer drag is going to be a real issue or not.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 18, 2018 07:18 PM (JUOKG)

26
re: AMBROSE BURNSIDE

This dude has quite the interesting history. A real character.

You really should've included a pic of Ambrose. Legend has it, they coined "side burns" after this guy. If you saw his pic, you'd understand why.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo, Digitally Remastered at November 18, 2018 07:18 PM (b16/K)

27
Incidentally, many many many years ago here, we discussed Ambrose Burnside.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo, Digitally Remastered at November 18, 2018 07:19 PM (b16/K)

28 Weasel, You are so correct about being aware of the 'feel' of a shot. I've never had a squib load but I've stopped shooting to check the barrel a few times. (I always have a small flashlight with my shooting gear for just that reason.)

Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2018 07:19 PM (758Rh)

29 There is a video of guys rapid firing a AR until it fails
Posted by: Skip at November 18, 2018 07:08 PM (6VrXf)

*****

Back in 1974 the army tested a Russian PKM light MG. Ran over 50,000 rounds through it just to see how it held up.
Remarkably well as it turned out. Accuracy dropped off after awhile but it still threw lead down range.
Simple
Cheap.
Deadly.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 18, 2018 07:20 PM (0tfLf)

30 Recently got an underfolder stock for my Ruger 10/22 Compact from the aptly-named underfoldstocks.com. Very nice. Fits in a tennis racket case even with the 25-round mag attached (which I wouldn't do outside of just seeing if it works.)

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 18, 2018 07:20 PM (j4zcI)

31 Stupid leftists in action...

https://twitter.com/ninaburleigh/status/
1064264494958997504

Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2018 07:20 PM (Evws/)

32 18 Weasel, I assume it's a miracle the gun didn't explode?
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:15 PM (miE9U)
-----
Agreed. You can see the barrel is bulged but does not appear to have ruptured. I'm not convinced that someone didn't do that on purpose.

As far as your other question, for precision handloads, bullet runout is measured with a micrometer to make certain they start out perfectly in line with the bore. When a bullet exits the barrel canted, the rotation changes from that of the bore axis to the bullet center of gravity and induces yaw.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:20 PM (MVjcR)

33 re: AMBROSE BURNSIDE

This dude has quite the interesting history. A real character.

You really should've included a pic of Ambrose. Legend has it, they
coined "side burns" after this guy. If you saw his pic, you'd understand
why.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo, Digitally Remastered at November 18, 2018 07:18 PM (b16/K)

Damn, he may have inspired the word "epic" also.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 18, 2018 07:21 PM (9Om/r)

34 Surfperch, aren't bump stocks kind of useless anyway? That's what I remember reading.
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (miE9U)

Yes, but the ruling (should it go into effect) will lay the groundwork for the potential banning of semiautomatic guns as well some designs of certain components such as trigger groups.

And besides, the ruling will punish law-abiding citizens for things they legally did before it came into effect.

Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:21 PM (EbOpT)

35 24 That is one heck of a strong barrel to do that. Is it for real?
Posted by: freaked at November 18, 2018 07:17 PM (UdKB7)
----
I found it on the internet so it has to be real.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:22 PM (MVjcR)

36 When a bullet exits the barrel canted, the rotation changes from that of the bore axis to the bullet center of gravity and induces yaw.
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:20 PM (MVjcR)

I presume it will still leave the muzzle, assuming normal pressures behind it?

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 07:22 PM (t+qrx)

37 There were cases in the Civil War of rifles found with multiple loads in the barrel. The explanation most given was a soldier, in the heat of battle, would load, not cap the rifle, aim, cock, and pull the trigger. Panic can really cloud things, and the soldier, thinking he had fired would repeat the process, including omitting the cap.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at November 18, 2018 07:23 PM (xzqr4)

38 That barrel cross-section is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. It looks like things almost went really bad after shot 4, but the barrel held.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 18, 2018 07:23 PM (SN4NF)

39
I assume if a bullet isn't proceeding EXACTLY straight out of a barrel, it can jam inside.
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:15 PM (miE9U)
-------
I suppose that could be part of the problem but suspect it's usually an insufficient powder charge.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:23 PM (MVjcR)

40 Surfperch, aren't bump stocks kind of useless anyway? That's what I remember reading.

In some people's opinion (including mine) yes. But personal opinions about something as vague as "usefulness " is a poor basis for the government taking people's stuff and putting them in jail.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderber's phone at November 18, 2018 07:24 PM (YJxmg)

41 I'm trying to figure out what kind of gun it's from. Threaded barrel, big round front sight.

Posted by: freaked at November 18, 2018 07:24 PM (UdKB7)

42 Damn, he may have inspired the word "epic" also.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 18, 2018 07:21 PM (9Om/r)

Those sideburns look like they actually generate downforce.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 07:24 PM (t+qrx)

43 That is one heck of a strong barrel to do that. Is it for real?
Posted by: freaked at November 18, 2018 07:17 PM (UdKB7)
----
I found it on the internet so it has to be real.
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:22 PM (MVjcR)

Everything on the internet is true and accurate.

Posted by: Abraham Lincoln at November 18, 2018 07:25 PM (EbOpT)

44
Since only The Men are in here, I have a vid to share:

This expert shows us, with a chart, which women are "wife" material.

Please watch. It's really good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuI6GTY9eVc

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo, Digitally Remastered at November 18, 2018 07:25 PM (b16/K)

45 Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:13 PM (EbOpT)

------

Squib load + teh stoopid + G-d smiling on his dullest creations.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 18, 2018 07:25 PM (5aX2M)

46 After the battle of Gettysburg, the ordnance boys collecting discarded muskets found many of them had multiple loads rammed down the barrel. I believe the recrd number was twenty. A lot of boys were failing to prime their muskets after loading, apparently. Why they didn't notice that the rammer wasn't going as far down the barrel as before is left as an exercise for the reader.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at November 18, 2018 07:26 PM (XXadE)

47
I presume it will still leave the muzzle, assuming normal pressures behind it?
Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 07:22 PM (t+qrx)
-------
I think so. I'm not sure you could get a round to chamber that was so messed up that bullet can't alone would cause a squib.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:27 PM (MVjcR)

48 Weasel, thanks for explaining all this stuff to me.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:27 PM (miE9U)

49 I've got a semi-auto PPS-43 "pistol" on the way. It's the Russki submachinegun that was a simplified version of the PPSh-41 (all steel with a folding stock). This version fires from a closed bolt and has the stock permanently welded in the folded position, so it doesn't need an awkward-looking 16" barrel on it.

Absolutely the goofiest gun purchase I've ever made. The thing has no practical purpose whatsover. But it looks friggin' cool.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 18, 2018 07:29 PM (j4zcI)

50 41 I'm trying to figure out what kind of gun it's from. Threaded barrel, big round front sight.
Posted by: freaked at November 18, 2018 07:24 PM (UdKB7)
------
Older Colt .38 would be my guess.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:29 PM (MVjcR)

51 thirst!

the local toy store has a couple of barrels as shown above...

filled to the rim with Brim, as it were.

the only thing like that i've every encountered personally is a torn case heeding to be extracted from a chamber... dealt with that several times in the Army.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 07:29 PM (Dagiw)

52 My problems were caused not by reloaded ammo, but retail ! I had been shooting all day with Norma ammo. After going through a box except two rounds , I touched off one of the two rounds left. It Seemed to recoil more that the rest of the Norma. I fired the last round, and the muzzle climb was very noticeable, in fact, I couldn't open the weapon at all. I was only successful in opening it after I rocked the cylinder in place for a while. It finally opened and I extracted the empty round. Because back then, hearing protection was considered sissy, I wasn't wearing any. My ears have been ringing ever since. My bad!

Posted by: John Boeve at November 18, 2018 07:30 PM (8ZsLy)

53 Just picked up my new M1A1 didn't like the pic. of the exploded one. Springfield had a warning not to use reloaded ammo. What do you morons think? Very long lurker from the little green football days.

Posted by: Yep at November 18, 2018 07:30 PM (shvYT)

54 'Older Colt .38 would be my guess.'

You'd think after the bulge appeared they'd stop. Maybe it was a factory test?

Posted by: freaked at November 18, 2018 07:31 PM (UdKB7)

55 48 Weasel, thanks for explaining all this stuff to me.
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:27 PM (miE9U)
------
Sure! I always available at the gun thread email too.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:31 PM (MVjcR)

56 I've got a semi-auto PPS-43 "pistol" on the way.
It's the Russki submachinegun that was a simplified version of the
PPSh-41 (all steel with a folding stock). This version fires from a
closed bolt and has the stock permanently welded in the folded position,
so it doesn't need an awkward-looking 16" barrel on it.

Absolutely the goofiest gun purchase I've ever made. The thing has no practical purpose whatsover. But it looks friggin' cool.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 18, 2018 07:29 PM (j4zcI)

I fired a real PPSH-41 some years ago. It had the 71 shot drum. Just wow....

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 18, 2018 07:31 PM (9Om/r)

57 I want to turn my 12 gauge 870 into a home defense gun.

https://tinyurl.com/y7mquqyb

Posted by: Cannibal Jim 'assumed name so don't get doxxed, at November 18, 2018 07:32 PM (+6jVU)

58 I have seen that sectioned pistol barrel before, I believe it was a marketing or gun writer test stunt to see if the barrel would blow or not.

I suspect it is for a Ruger revolver, which are known for being very sturdy.

I will check my books.

Posted by: Kindltot at November 18, 2018 07:32 PM (mUa7G)

59 Famously after Gettysburg rifles collected from the ground many were found to have 2 or more rounds in the barrel. It was a common error in muzzleloader erea.

Posted by: Skip at November 18, 2018 07:32 PM (6VrXf)

60 I'm trying to figure out what kind of gun it's from. Threaded barrel, big round front sight.

------------------

I'm guessing a SW N-frame. Maybe done on purpose by the Smith boys to demonstrate the gun's strength.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 18, 2018 07:32 PM (j4zcI)

61 To bring the gun and movie thread topics together:

How many gun wranglers must there have been on the set of John Wick?!? Good grief...

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:33 PM (miE9U)

62 I know a Phd in mechanical engineering who flies around the Country testifying as an expert witness in such products liability cases. He makes good money doing that.

Posted by: CMU VET at November 18, 2018 07:34 PM (C+wjz)

63 And besides, the ruling will punish law-abiding citizens for things they legally did before it came into effect.
Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:21 PM (EbOpT)

simple solution: move bump stocks into the same category as machine guns and SBR's. And for those who can prove prior ownership, deem the tax paid as of the date of the status change. So existing bump stock owners get grandfathered, and newbies who want to acquire one pay the tax.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 07:34 PM (fDU8w)

64 53 Just picked up my new M1A1 didn't like the pic. of the exploded one. Springfield had a warning not to use reloaded ammo. What do you morons think? Very long lurker from the little green football days.
Posted by: Yep at November 18, 2018 07:30 PM (shvYT)
------
Howdy Yep and welcome. I'm pretty certain every gun I have ever purchased has had the same warning regarding reloads. I shoot them all the time, but only ones I have loaded myself. Never, ever, ever shoot anyone else's reloads. Ever.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:35 PM (MVjcR)

65 And besides, the ruling will punish law-abiding citizens for things they legally did before it came into effect.

Posted by: Smoked Surfperch at November 18, 2018 07:21 PM (EbOpT)

Jersey has been doing that for years.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 18, 2018 07:35 PM (9Om/r)

66 I want to turn my 12 gauge 870 into a home defense gun.

No problem. Go out on the balcony and fire two shots. You're welcome.

P.S. Got any daughters?

Posted by: Joe "Joe" Biden at November 18, 2018 07:35 PM (YJxmg)

67 I blew up a 7mm Rem Magnum. This was pre-internet and I found some article saying you should fill the empty space in a big cartridge with creme of wheat. This supposedly kept the powder tight against the primer. HAH! We were shooting outside Sun Valley ID, loaded one of the new loads, pulled the trigger, and converted that gun to scrap. NO injuries, thank God. One amazed gun smith in Sun Valley. I donated the welded gun for him to hang on the wall, may still be there.

Posted by: agesilaus at November 18, 2018 07:36 PM (DJzdA)

68 I want one of those Hollywood chicka-chicka guns. You know, the ones that go "chicka-chicka" every time you point it at someone for emphasis. Sometimes several times in a row.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 18, 2018 07:36 PM (j4zcI)

69 No problem. Go out on the balcony and fire two shots. You're welcome.

P.S. Got any daughters?
Posted by: Joe "Joe" Biden at November 18, 2018 07:35 PM (YJxmg)

Huh you're right. It already is.

Posted by: Cannibal Jim 'assumed name so don't get doxxed, at November 18, 2018 07:36 PM (+6jVU)

70 Desocking before I forget.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderber's phone at November 18, 2018 07:36 PM (YJxmg)

71 Famously after Gettysburg rifles collected from the
ground many were found to have 2 or more rounds in the barrel. It was a
common error in muzzleloader erea.

Posted by: Skip
Yeah - my grandpa gave me an ancient muzzleloader rifle when I was a teenager. He was a collector and had hundreds of rifles. The barn was full of them. Some priceless but mostly junk. We never were able to determine much about the rifle. No real barrel marks or other identifying features but appeared to be very old.

I had it drilled out and it had two rounds in it. Never fired it - it hangs above the mantle.

Posted by: Tonypete at November 18, 2018 07:37 PM (9rIkM)

72 I admit there's a lot I don't know about guns.

Like, what are the advantages of a rifle over a handgun? Or vice versa?

To me, rifles look like "old technology" guns.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:38 PM (miE9U)

73 I've only ever had a squib fire in a revolver.

Kind of a PITA when it happens as you have to stand there for a minute or so and not turn the cylinder just in case.

Posted by: Big V at November 18, 2018 07:38 PM (CGfsq)

74 I admit there's a lot I don't know about guns.

Like, what are the advantages of a rifle over a handgun? Or vice versa?

To me, rifles look like "old technology" guns.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:38 PM (miE9U)

You're not going to reach out and touch someone with a handgun.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 18, 2018 07:39 PM (9Om/r)

75 67 I blew up a 7mm Rem Magnum. This was pre-internet and I found some article saying you should fill the empty space in a big cartridge with creme of wheat. This supposedly kept the powder tight against the primer. HAH! We were shooting outside Sun Valley ID, loaded one of the new loads, pulled the trigger, and converted that gun to scrap. NO injuries, thank God. One amazed gun smith in Sun Valley. I donated the welded gun for him to hang on the wall, may still be there.
Posted by: agesilaus at November 18, 2018 07:36 PM (DJzdA)
------
As you found out, you can cause a big change in the pressure curve by reducing case volume. I have heard of doing that in some sort of reduced powder gimmick but would never try it (I'm a chicken too)

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:40 PM (MVjcR)

76 Berserker, so you're saying I should let my high-powered scope do the walking? ;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:40 PM (miE9U)

77 here were cases in the Civil War of rifles found with multiple loads in the barrel. The explanation most given was a soldier, in the heat of battle, would load, not cap the rifle, aim, cock, and pull the trigger. Panic can really cloud things, and the soldier, thinking he had fired would repeat the process, including omitting the cap.

I think that probably fairly common back in the muzzleloading days. Some of the destructive testing that the US Army did to its musket barrels looks to me like they expected to have soldiers loading multiple times before the gun actually went off.

By the Civil War, BTW, Springfield and Harper's Ferry were using high quality iron and welding up the skelp with triphammers. The resulting tubes were very tough, rather tougher than most repros today, I suspect. It was actually some testing with US Armory barrels that led to the notion back in the 1960s and 70s that you couldn't load black powder to the point that it would burst a barrel, the idea being that it burned slowly enough that excess powder would blow out before it could build enough pressure to be dangerous. This was not so, of course, and there were some nasty accidents with poorly-made barrels before people caught on.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 07:40 PM (bZ7mE)

78 I really can't get worked up over the bumpstock ban. We have lived with laws banning private ownership of machine guns, and modifying a semiautomatic to fire full-auto has been illegal for just as long.

While you can argue all day about how a bumpstock is not mechanically anything like converting a semi, the end result is still the same. "But, you can make a bumpstock out of a belt! What's your plan for that?" Simple, when you catch someone using a belt to get their rifle to continuously fire, you arrest him for using a bumpstock and mark the belt as "weapon modification" at trial.

I know this is liable to make a few gun-thread folks mad at me, but rapid-fire weapons are either illegal or not. I can't get choked up over a genuine loophole closing.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 18, 2018 07:41 PM (SN4NF)

79 nothing wrong with reloads per se:

there are factory reloads, which are as reliable as factory new, for various values of reliable.

personal reloads are safe too as long as, and only if, you abide by all the rules mentioned above...

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 07:41 PM (Dagiw)

80 Like, what are the advantages of a rifle over a handgun? Or vice versa?

Unlike a rifle, you can bring a handgun into Dennys.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 18, 2018 07:41 PM (HJhxx)

81 Guns should have little warning light icons, like a car dashboard.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at November 18, 2018 07:41 PM (/qEW2)

82 Look at a 45 pistol round against a 30-06 rifle cartridge and you will see one advantage.

Posted by: freaked at November 18, 2018 07:41 PM (UdKB7)

83 'reach out, reach out and shoot someone
reach out, reach out and just go bang...'
;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:41 PM (miE9U)

84 skelp
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 07:40 PM (bZ7mE)

I learned a word.

Thank you.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 07:42 PM (t+qrx)

85 Cicero, true. :-)
So, (1), compactness/concealibility. Okay.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:42 PM (miE9U)

86 Like, what are the advantages of a rifle over a handgun? Or vice versa?

-------------

Rifle - more powerful, more accurate, longer range.

Pistol - small, portable, concealable.

There's an old saying - "You use your pistol to get to your rifle."

Of course, a shotgun then says, "That's so adorable."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 18, 2018 07:42 PM (j4zcI)

87 Taro, thanks.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:43 PM (miE9U)

88
To me, rifles look like "old technology" guns.
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:38 PM (miE9U)
------
Sure, old technology, but I can (usually) hit a 10 inch circle from 1000yds with a rifle bullet. Handguns would be for inside 50yards or so.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:44 PM (MVjcR)

89 Weasel, so accuracy as well. Makes sense.
Longer barrel probably helps with that...

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:45 PM (miE9U)

90 Yes, I went to the range this week! Yesterday, to my local range, at NRA HQ.

I must be blessed I am able to walk in and go straight to a lane - no waiting. On a Saturday afternoon!

I have had an AR15 in the safe for about 5 years - never fired a round. I remedied that yesterday. My training on the M16 (A1 thank you!) was several (cough) years ago, so I mostly recalled how it all worked, but needed to lube up the brain a little. But apparently I got better at shooting in the intervening years. Though I tried to use a nail to adjust the sites just like dear old Uncle Sam taught me - yeah, that doesn't work. There is a tool for this now! Who knew?

Also put some rounds through my EDC PF9. It goes bang and the bullets pretty much go where I point them to. Found out its time to replace the battery on the laser.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 07:45 PM (VhKw6)

91

Agreed. You can see the barrel is bulged but does not appear to have
ruptured. I'm not convinced that someone didn't do that on purpose.

Couldn't you do that with a hydraulic press? Whoever did that had a band saw at their disposal, too.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at November 18, 2018 07:45 PM (HaL55)

92 and mark the belt as "weapon modification" at trial.

And that doesn't strike you as, um, absurd if not an outright abuse of the legal system?

Posted by: Bob the Bilderber's phone at November 18, 2018 07:46 PM (YJxmg)

93 Although I have a progressive loading press, I've never used it. I'm sufficiently paranoid to assume something will go wrong on one stage when I'm paying attention to another. Maybe if I shot hundreds or thousands of rounds a week like some competitors I would feel different.

I prefer to take my time, using batch processing for each stage.

Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2018 07:46 PM (758Rh)

94 Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 07:45 PM (VhKw6)
-----
We should get together and do some shooting sometime.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:47 PM (MVjcR)

95 Still want to make your own at home?

https://tinyurl.com/ydx4fbxg

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 18, 2018 07:47 PM (cqNba)

96 blaster @ 90--, I have the same battery in a Crimson Trace on a G26 for the past 6 years. Still gets nice and all red-like everytime.

Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 07:48 PM (zLDYs)

97 Weasel, so accuracy as well. Makes sense.
Longer barrel probably helps with that...
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:45 PM (miE9U)

Part of it is the time and distance the projectile is in contact with the rifling and being pushed by the charge, but not all of it. Do a search for "sight radius" to get an idea of one of the factors that goes into that. It is a factor on any weapon that has separate front and rear sights that are used in conjunction.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 07:48 PM (t+qrx)

98 hogmartin, thanks.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 07:49 PM (miE9U)

99 Posted by: Bob the Bilderber's phone at November 18, 2018 07:46 PM�

If the belt was being used to fire multiple rounds per second instead of holding pants up, I would call it a moment of unusual legal clarity.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 18, 2018 07:50 PM (SN4NF)

100 You'd think after the bulge appeared they'd stop. Maybe it was a factory test?

Has to be on purpose. Even I, with the least handgun experience of anybody, would be scratching my head before the 11th shot.

Posted by: t-bird at November 18, 2018 07:51 PM (lK7fO)

101 Incidentally, I have managed to bulge a barrel. Yugo rebuild of a Mauser '98 Gewehr (long barreled WWI variant) with a rather corroded bore. I cleaned it as best I could with a brush and chemical cleaners (didn't know bout JB Bore Paste at the time) and went to do shoot it to see if I needed to lap it. 20 rounds of 8mm Przi Partisan, followed by some surplus ammo also from Yugoslavia - about the 3rd round of surplus I noticed the light shining off the barrel in an odd way, and, lo and behold, it was bulged about 2/3 up the barrel. It is still sitting in my bedroom, waiting for me to decide to sell it for parts, rebarrel it (as much as the gun cost in the first place), or just keep it as a wall-hanger.

I've never determined for sure what caused that bulge. For awhile I thought that there must have been some weak spot or a maybe a scrap of cleaning patch down there. A couple years back, though, I discovered that contrary to what everyone seems to think, nitrocellulose-based propellants do deteriorate over time and when they do can ignite erratically, with much the same effect as an underloaded round. Since the surplus ammo in question dated to the early 90's, it was just at the end of its estimated shelf life.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 07:51 PM (bZ7mE)

102 46 After the battle of Gettysburg, the ordnance boys collecting discarded muskets found many of them had multiple loads rammed down the barrel. I believe the recrd number was twenty. A lot of boys were failing to prime their muskets after loading, apparently. Why they didn't notice that the rammer wasn't going as far down the barrel as before is left as an exercise for the reader.
Posted by: Captain Obvious at November 18, 2018 07:26 PM (XXadE)

---

Absolute terror.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at November 18, 2018 07:51 PM (ZwF/t)

103 93 Although I have a progressive loading press, I've never used it. I'm sufficiently paranoid to assume something will go wrong on one stage when I'm paying attention to another. Maybe if I shot hundreds or thousands of rounds a week like some competitors I would feel different.

I prefer to take my time, using batch processing for each stage.

Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2018 07:46 PM (758Rh)
-------
I first bought a progressive for handgun rounds, unpacked it, looked at it, and put it on the shelf. Never loaded a round on it for the very reasons you gave!!

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:53 PM (0H9Ub)

104 From what I understand, pistol powder in a rifle cartridge can really ruin your day.

Anyway, shot a Garand match yesterday. Also had a turkey shoot.

Had a great time but, I much prefer my K-31 for 200 yard matches. Though, that may be due to the fact I've not shot the Garand in High Power matches that often.

Anyway, so far, this month, I've shot: IDPA, M1 Garand match and had a family gun together.

Oh, and bought more ammo which I've made a significant dent in.

Time to get more!

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 07:55 PM (WEBkv)

105 Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 07:55 PM (WEBkv)
-------
Nicely done! Garands are fun, aren't they?

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:58 PM (0H9Ub)

106 As you found out, you can cause a big change in the pressure curve by reducing case volume. I have heard of doing that in some sort of reduced powder gimmick but would never try it (I'm a chicken too)
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:40 PM (MVjcR)
--------------

Yep. Pressure curve is why one must use ammo specifically built for the M1 Garand rather than just any old off the shelf 30-06 ammo.

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 07:59 PM (WEBkv)

107 The wrong type or amount of powder is an obvious one, but handloaders, especially bulk loaders of bottle-necked rifle cartridges, need to pay very close attention to case length.
There is a very good reason every decent loading manual specifies a MAXIMUM case length and why every good manufacturer of reloading equipment offers a case trimmer, case gauges, measuring tools, etc.
If the case is too long, it may well chamber, but with the added "interesting feature" of the front of the case neck being compressed into the bullet jacket by the chamber itself. Pressure WILL seriously "redline" in these conditions.
In the space of a couple of months, I saw a SiG AMT and a genuine, original AR-10 both damaged by reloads assembled on over-length cases. .
Hand-cranked trimmers are cheap insurance for most folks, but if you shoot and reload on a serious scale or are "time-poor", there are electrically powered units in abundance. I have a Dillon unit that serves me well.

Posted by: Bruce at November 18, 2018 08:00 PM (7rlrd)

108 Nicely done! Garands are fun, aren't they?
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:58 PM (0H9Ub)
---------------------

More fun than I should be allowed to have.

For whatever reason, the Garand speaks to me in a way the AR-15 never will.

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:01 PM (WEBkv)

109 Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 07:51 PM (bZ7mE)
------
Hi Grey Fox - are you certain it wasn't there before? Barrel steel is awfully strong. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened as you suggest, just curious.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:01 PM (0H9Ub)

110 I shot the 21 Thompson twice, got my retarded DPMS Recon II to run a whole mag without farting, Shot plates with the 1911's and got to shoot simunition at a SEAL team wed and thurs night in urban warfare training. Got 3 the first night in a traffic jam, two the next night and got KIA both times.
Kinda odd to be pointing guns at people and shooting at them. All in all a good week!

Posted by: DBCooper at November 18, 2018 08:02 PM (bttOm)

111 We should get together and do some shooting sometime.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 07:47 PM (MVjcR)

Sounds a winner - we had tried to connect up before - my schedule has changed which should make it easier to do. I think you go to BRA?

I have been there but HQ is just a couple miles down the road.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:02 PM (VhKw6)

112
For whatever reason, the Garand speaks to me in a way the AR-15 never will.
Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:01 PM (WEBkv)
-----
*fistbump and bro hug*

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:03 PM (0H9Ub)

113 Hand-cranked trimmers are cheap insurance for most folks, but if you shoot and reload on a serious scale or are "time-poor", there are electrically powered units in abundance. I have a Dillon unit that serves me well.
Posted by: Bruce at November 18, 2018 08:00 PM (7rlrd)
-------------------

That is some great information. I always assumed that, when I started reloading, I would be trimming cases. But, I never thought about the fact one could seriously increase chamber pressure through seating an over-length case.

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:03 PM (WEBkv)

114 I participated in the Belle Glade Rotary Club Turkey Shoot this week. Does that count?

Posted by: Asscheeks of Saturn at November 18, 2018 08:04 PM (Jj+59)

115 114 I participated in the Belle Glade Rotary Club Turkey Shoot this week. Does that count?
Posted by: Asscheeks of Saturn at November 18, 2018 08:04 PM (Jj+59)
-------------

That is outstanding! What were the parameters of the match?

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:05 PM (WEBkv)

116
I have been there but HQ is just a couple miles down the road.
Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:02 PM (VhKw6)
-------
I remember that!
I let my BRA membership lapse and just shoot at the farm now. The NRA is close to my office in Merrifield, and I have never been inside!!

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:05 PM (0H9Ub)

117 Oh, guy in the next lane to me had a full auto MP5. I THOUGHT the rules at HQ were no full auto at least during public hours. Guy let one rip - maybe 10 rounds - and EVERYBODY stopped shooting and looked down the line. I think maybe the range officer had a talk with him, because after 3 bursts he didn't shoot full auto again.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:05 PM (VhKw6)

118 One of the most famous squib loads in Hollyweird history -- the death of Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) while filming a scene in The Crow :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#Death

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 18, 2018 08:07 PM (Z4rgH)

119 One of these days I'll do a thread on rifle match case prep if you all are interested,

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:07 PM (0H9Ub)

120 Hey, into OT.

The Bengal Slices recreation is a pretty solid everyday Latakia/Oriental/Virginia and cheap as chips at about $14 per 1.75oz tin. If anybody's into that kind of thing.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 08:07 PM (t+qrx)

121 Looked up the rules - full auto bad during public hours at NRA HQ.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:08 PM (VhKw6)

122 117 Oh, guy in the next lane to me had a full auto MP5. I THOUGHT the rules at HQ were no full auto at least during public hours. Guy let one rip - maybe 10 rounds - and EVERYBODY stopped shooting and looked down the line. I think maybe the range officer had a talk with him, because after 3 bursts he didn't shoot full auto again.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:05 PM (VhKw6)

-------------------

Everyone was just jealous he didn't offer to let them try the MP5!

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:08 PM (WEBkv)

123 119 One of these days I'll do a thread on rifle match case prep if you all are interested,
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:07 PM (0H9Ub)

-----------------

I'm in!

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:09 PM (WEBkv)

124 Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:05 PM (VhKw6)
------
Would you believe my shooting buddy has not one but TWO full auto MP5s?

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:09 PM (0H9Ub)

125 from a couple of threads ago
No "hate crimes" as such, but hatred as a motive for an actual crime to be an aggravating factor for sentencing does not seem out of line to me.
What exactly is the difference, AOP?

Murder is murder.

Enhancing the sentence due to divined thoughts and intent is Big Brother - no matter how you look at it.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:10 PM (LL1Be)

126 Would you believe my shooting buddy has not one but TWO full auto MP5s?

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:09 PM (0H9Ub)

Isn't that how you clear trees at the farm?

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:11 PM (VhKw6)

127 Kinda odd to be pointing guns at people and shooting at them.
Posted by: DBCooper at November 18, 2018 08:02 PM (bttOm)

We used the blue barrel simunitions in FPFT and that was a surprisingly difficult mental hurdle to overcome. Because it's an M9, you wear one every duty day... and you want me to do WHAT with it? Won't I get in trouble? You mean... AT him?

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 08:11 PM (t+qrx)

128 Murder is murder.

Enhancing the sentence due to divined thoughts and intent is Big Brother - no matter how you look at it.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:10 PM (LL1Be)

Well, I was thinking more in the case of expressed thoughts and intent. Judges should not be acting as mindreaders.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 08:13 PM (fDU8w)

129 Here is a P64 barrel I bulged double tapping when a bad round squibbed on me.

https://flic.kr/p/NKwiXj

Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 18, 2018 08:13 PM (WAJor)

130 We used the blue barrel simunitions in FPFT and that was a surprisingly difficult mental hurdle to overcome. Because it's an M9, you wear one every duty day... and you want me to do WHAT with it? Won't I get in trouble? You mean... AT him?
Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 08:11 PM (t+qrx)

--------------

Hey, at least it isn't the kind of training Russian's do.

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:13 PM (WEBkv)

131 > Why they didn't notice that the rammer wasn't going as far down the barrel as before is left as an exercise for the reader.

Having Confederates firing grapeshot at your ass probably tends to interfere with your concentration.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at November 18, 2018 08:13 PM (vOkuK)

132
Isn't that how you clear trees at the farm?

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:11 PM (VhKw6)
------
Either an MP5 or an Uzi. MP5 is faster!!

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:13 PM (0H9Ub)

133 I've seen three different pistols with 9mm white box Winchester bullets stuck in the barrels. Their quality control sucks and I'll never use that ammo in my weapons.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 18, 2018 08:14 PM (bML9A)

134 Enhancing the sentence due to divined thoughts and intent is Big Brother - no matter how you look at it.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:10 PM (LL1Be)

Yeah, I am going to have to kinda sorta disagree with you there.

Intent has long been a part of the law. "Murder is murder" but there are all kinds of degrees of it.

I get and agree with the purpose of hate crimes legislation but of course like anything it gets abused.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:14 PM (VhKw6)

135 Hi Grey Fox - are you certain it wasn't there before? Barrel steel is awfully strong. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened as you suggest, just curious.

I did consider that possibility. I owned the gun for about six months prior and never noticed anything wrong until that day, though. Can't say for sure it wasn't already there, but I don't think so.

The barrel WAS strong, which is why it only bulged a bit and didn't rupture, I think.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 08:15 PM (bZ7mE)

136 Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 18, 2018 08:13 PM (WAJor)
-------
Wow - check that out. What did the second round feel like?

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:15 PM (0H9Ub)

137 Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 08:15 PM (bZ7mE)
------
Amazing. Good to know. Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:17 PM (0H9Ub)

138 Weasel @ 124- full auto. Yeah, I couldn't afford to do full auto these days. Last time was back in 95 at Little Creek and Uncle Sugar was picking up the tab.

Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 08:17 PM (zLDYs)

139
Well, I was thinking more in the case of expressed thoughts and intent
With the exception of cold-blooded assassins, murder is almost always a crime that is result of hate.

I am good with hate being part of motive. But sentencing?
I can see the ProgLeft abusing this to no end.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:17 PM (LL1Be)

140 Turning an 870 or Mossberg 500 into a home defense gun is simple. 18.5 in barrels are easy to get and use. The Remington shotguns can have an extended mag tube installed with little effort. Both are good options.

Posted by: Usntakim profoundly deplorable at November 18, 2018 08:18 PM (0OmEj)

141
Intent has long been a part of the law. "Murder is murder" but there are all kinds of degrees of it.

And sentencing is a completely different part of the law.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:18 PM (LL1Be)

142 133 I've seen three different pistols with 9mm white box Winchester bullets stuck in the barrels. Their quality control sucks and I'll never use that ammo in my weapons.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 18, 2018 08:14 PM (bML9A)
-----
It's also the filthiest ammo in .38 that I've ever seen.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:18 PM (0H9Ub)

143 Wow - check that out. What did the second round feel like?

The first round sounded a bit strange but I was already dropping the hammer on the second one. There was smoke and a brass frag struck my check.

And the slide was stuck back over the bulge. I had to use a rubber mallet to get it off.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 18, 2018 08:19 PM (WAJor)

144 And sentencing is a completely different part of the law.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:18 PM (LL1Be)

Yes, and?

Why do we have first degree and second degree murder?

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:19 PM (VhKw6)

145 So I get to thinking since I'm the gun thread - What If? 40 minutes later I find out that there is a new safety lever for a Model 30 C96 Mauser available. Thank you gub buddies.

Posted by: Panhandler at November 18, 2018 08:19 PM (c8xLq)

146 138 Weasel @ 124- full auto. Yeah, I couldn't afford to do full auto these days. Last time was back in 95 at Little Creek and Uncle Sugar was picking up the tab.
Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 08:17 PM (zLDYs)
-----
Yep. My buddy has a significant investment in them.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:20 PM (0H9Ub)

147 Hogmartin.
Yeah it was weird, Guy has his M4 up as he came around the corner and I double-tapped him under his elbow and he jumped a bit which made me stop shooting but the traffic jam ensued so got what I thought was 4 double taps total. Round count was 5 doubles. Second night I got in a longer affair with three guys and they shot a bunch at me and I never got hit. I did a mag change and shot 26 times. Third guy got me in an awesome move i couldn't engage. He said 'good thing I got you because you were gonna get the dog'...

Posted by: DBCooper at November 18, 2018 08:22 PM (bttOm)

148
Why do we have first degree and second degree murder?

Premeditation vs spur of the moment action.

Depending up on the jurisdiction.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:23 PM (LL1Be)

149 The guy on the other side lane had a lever gun in what looked like 45-70.

Whatever it was, that sumbitch was LOUD.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:24 PM (VhKw6)

150
Well, I was thinking more in the case of expressed thoughts and intent. Judges should not be acting as mindreaders.

And it intents and thoughts are crimes in and of themselves, let alone punishment multipliers, then why isn't attempted murder treated as successful murder.

If anything, I want a screw-up who can't even pull of a proper murder to go to prison too. Why should incompetent murderers be treated with leniency?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:25 PM (lD3vL)

151 Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 18, 2018 08:19 PM (WAJor)
---
Holy crap.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:26 PM (MVjcR)

152 re the barrel full of bullets: that looks like what i've read is the the typical failure mode of open-bolt machine pistols: one squib and brrrrrrp! unscrew and
replace barrel, carry on.
o

Posted by: Gooshy at November 18, 2018 08:26 PM (CVnIW)

153 Again, "hate" might be an important part of determining motive. But incorporating it into sentencing ?

who deserves to me murdered most? least?

1) cheating spouse
2) member of identity, race, political or religious group
3) innocent bystander
Answer: it shouldn't matter, under the law. All were murdered.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:27 PM (LL1Be)

154 Premeditation vs spur of the moment action.

So is there some sort of time threshold that needs to be crossed before "spur of the moment" becomes "premeditated"? What is that?

A few seconds? minutes? hours? days?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:28 PM (lD3vL)

155 when i was at Benning for Infantry School a few years back, our M-203 qualification was fun.

seems they had a bad lot of dye marker rounds (the ones you qual with for the window shot.

a guy in my platoon pulled the trigger, and the 203 barrel went "blooie"...

he was shook. the drills gave him another 203 and another round and....

you guessed it.

he about shit himself. two or 3 more barrels went, so they called a cease fire, huddled up, then gave everyone a hit on the window section, and we continued on with the course or fire, HE only...

IIRC, just about everyone got expert that day, since the window was the only really hard part.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 08:28 PM (Dagiw)

156 *fistbump and bro hug*
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:03 PM

I want to laugh harder at this, but given the awesomeness of the Garand, I can't.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 18, 2018 08:28 PM (DVvHX)

157 Answer: it shouldn't matter, under the law. All were murdered.

And in states like PA, the DP is available only if the murdered was a politician or LEO.

Animal Farm.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:29 PM (lD3vL)

158 I've seen three different pistols with 9mm white box
Winchester bullets stuck in the barrels. Their quality control sucks
and I'll never use that ammo in my weapons.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 18, 2018 08:14 PM

---

Agree. And I came upon something called Winchester Service Grade ammo. Got 500 rounds bulk at the pawn shop. It is garbage ammo that is dirty, unreliable and inconsistent. I won't buy it again.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 18, 2018 08:29 PM (JUOKG)

159 he about shit himself. two or 3 more barrels went, so they called a cease fire, huddled up, then gave everyone a hit on the window section, and we continued on with the course or fire, HE only...

IIRC, just about everyone got expert that day, since the window was the only really hard part.
Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 08:28 PM (Dagiw)
-----------

Consider the irony: The HE was safer than a dye round.

Posted by: Blake - used scripting salesman at November 18, 2018 08:31 PM (WEBkv)

160 there are four kinds of homicide

felonious
actionable
justifiable
praiseworthy

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 08:32 PM (Dagiw)

161
Didn't gay radical leftist Gavin Newsome grow?
I saw him on TV today and he was like 6'5".

Was he wearing high heels so he wouldn't be shorter than President Trump?

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo, Digitally Remastered at November 18, 2018 08:33 PM (b16/K)

162 160 there are four kinds of homicide

Where does negligent fit in?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:34 PM (lD3vL)

163 4am coming quick so I'm out.
Have a good night horde.

Posted by: Skip at November 18, 2018 08:34 PM (6VrXf)

164 'Night Skip.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:34 PM (MVjcR)

165 Couldn't a good attorney prove that a previously responsible gunowner and reloader was actually "premeditating" murder from the time he bought his first gun?
One neighbor hearing (or misremembering) "liberals want to steal my guns - I hate them all!" could be interpreted as politically motivated 'hate'.

Most juries would buy the shit out that.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:35 PM (LL1Be)

166 Soothsayer: Louboutin makes a line just for him I believe :-P

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 08:36 PM (miE9U)

167 who deserves to me murdered most? least?

1) cheating spouse
2) member of identity, race, political or religious group
3) innocent bystander
Answer: it shouldn't matter, under the law. All were murdered.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:27 PM (LL1Be)

Consider this: Murderer A kills a man because the guy cut him off in traffic. A gets his licence plate number, identifies him, and tracks him down and kills him. Absolutely premeditated murder. But really, no random people are at risk, because he is so focused.

Murderer B kills a man because the victim belongs to a different race, and B hates all members of that race. B would have killed any member of that race at any time, because they all look alike to him. So any random person with those racial characteristics is a potential victim.

The very randomness of B makes him more of a threat to society, IMHO.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 08:36 PM (fDU8w)

168 My husband got me a Kimber Micro 9 for my birthday last week...took it to the range for a test drive today. Sweet! Al least, once I got used to the size, it's smaller than my .380. Then - I got to try out his Ruger Redhawk. Oh, my. Perhaps I should have asked for that instead of the Kimber...

Posted by: Antisocialist at November 18, 2018 08:36 PM (2shuf)

169 Where does negligent fit in?
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:34 PM (lD3vL)

Somewhere between felonious and actionable, depending.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 08:36 PM (t+qrx)

170 Premeditation vs spur of the moment action.

Depending up on the jurisdiction.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:23 PM (LL1Be)

So it's based on intent. Which is my point.

Terrorism is an intent based crime.

There is a reason why cross burning is a crime - because it is about what you are intending to do - you are trying to frighten/intimidate a group of people. That is why killing a person because of their race is a different deal than killing them because you want their wallet.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:38 PM (VhKw6)

171 Consider this: Murderer A kills a man because the guy cut him off in traffic.

Lots of cars out there. And drivers.
I'm saying the threat is pretty much equal.

If the guy will murder for cutting off in traffic?

What happens to the barista that gets his coffee order wrong?

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:39 PM (LL1Be)

172 in Gub related news, i got an e-mail copy of my 03 FFL this week, so go me!

questions for those in the know:
do they send me a book, or do i have to buy one someplace? if so, where?

do i get a hard copy in the mail? i'm thinking yes, since the delay was because they sent the first one to Bass Lake, up by Yosemite, rather than to here in The Valley, like totally. that one is now canceled, with notes in the file that it was miss-sent, so if someone does anything stupid with it, i should be covered.

any helpful suggestions, other than don't do stupid shit and do all required paperw*rk immediately, so i don't forget and miss a deadline?

i've got one question regarding collection versus "for sale", which i do NOT plan on engaging in, as to marking collection items " not for sale"... rather than have to individually tag everything we own, which would be a royal PITA, i'm going to ask if i can just mark the safes. and yes, i will get the answer in writing, for future reference, just in case.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 08:39 PM (Dagiw)

173 There is a reason why cross burning is a crime - because it is about
what you are intending to do - you are trying to frighten/intimidate a
group of people.

So why isn't flag burning a crime?

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:40 PM (LL1Be)

174 Agree. And I came upon something called Winchester Service Grade ammo. Got 500 rounds bulk at the pawn shop. It is garbage ammo that is dirty, unreliable and inconsistent. I won't buy it again.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 18, 2018 08:29 PM (JUOKG)

I thought I'd never see dirtier ammo than Remington but Winchester white box sets the bar for dirty, unreliable ammunition.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 18, 2018 08:41 PM (bML9A)

175 Speaking of BOOM.....

Weasel, you need to get that motorhome, load up Weasel Woman n' both Weasel Dog n' Cat, and head out to Idaho for Boomershoot.

The guns don't go ka-boom. The targets though, do. They use Boomerite, a reactionary explosive much like Tannerite, but more potent. Its mixed and containerized on site for the event.

Joe Huffman, the founder and HMFWBIC there, has the federal licenses necessary, and runs a team of volunteers to stir up the mix. Containers are small and large Chinese Take Out tubs. Small ones at (IIRC) 380 yards and the large ones out at +/- 700 yards.

Opening ceremony is an Anvil Launch, followed by The Fireball.

Closing? The "Cleanup" shoot. All the unexploded targets are brought to a distance of about 80 yards, and opened up on, firing-squad style.

Equipment and accuracy wise, you'd be among family...just having more fun, and glee making the big booms, just because ya can!

And I think it'll take a Boomershoot Gun Thread to out do this here Ka-Boom thread, which is in itself, deserving to be a feature in any of the national gun magazines.

I do mean *any*. You done this one good, sir.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at November 18, 2018 08:41 PM (QzJWU)

176 'Hate crime' is a slippery slope.

Accepting and agreeing with increasing sentencing based on the politically incorrectness of the motive is agreeing with the Libs "lawfare" strategy.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:43 PM (LL1Be)

177 Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 08:39 PM (Dagiw)
----------
I think you have to come up with your own book. I just keep a printed list of acquisitions/disposals under the license with the necessary info.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:43 PM (MVjcR)

178 There is a reason why cross burning is a crime - because it is about
what you are intending to do - you are trying to frighten/intimidate a
group of people.

So why isn't flag burning a crime?
Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:40 PM (LL1Be)

---------------

I don't agree with flag burning, but one is seen as a freedom of political expression, the other is to intimidate/terrorize.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 18, 2018 08:43 PM (ffYR/)

179 With my Lee Precision press it's almost impossible to double load a cartridge. And the only way to load a squib is if you run out of powder without noticing. I've loaded thousands of 38 special rounds without any mishaps. The worst thing about the press is the chain operated mechanism that returns the powder disk which I replaced with a rod made out of 1/8 steel shaft. I've got a few extras that I made if anyone wants one.

Posted by: JimK at November 18, 2018 08:44 PM (uAlm4)

180 Just asked my 13-year-old niece what she wants for Christmas. Her reply: "Money and clothes."

Yup, she's a woman all right ;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 08:44 PM (miE9U)

181 Kinda OT on gub thread - I started watching the old Bronson Death Wish today. I watched maybe 20 minutes. I had never seen the original, and had seen the Bruce Willis one earlier this year.

Real quick hits - VERY 70s. The editing is horrible. OMG that rapist kid is JEFF GOLDBLUM!?!? Bronson's co-worker calls him a "bleeding heart liberal."

People don't do THAT anymore, especially in a big movie.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:45 PM (VhKw6)

182 So why isn't flag burning a crime?

Universally, the flag burner isn't looking to frighten/intimidate someone, it is about provoking someone (the one offended at flag burning) to throw the first punch.

Flag burning is all about getting someone else to do a crime.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:45 PM (lD3vL)

183 but one is seen as a freedom of political expression, the other is to intimidate/terrorize.
"Seen".
By whom?

Many people like me see flag-burning as a threat to me and my way of life. Historically , commies did it when they wanted to intimidate my nation.

Do I count?

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:46 PM (LL1Be)

184 the concept of hate crimes is ridiculous.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 08:46 PM (MTjB1)

185 Posted by: Jim at November 18, 2018 08:41 PM (QzJWU)
-----
Thanks, Jim. Coming from you that's quite a compliment!
And does Boomershoot ever sound like FUN.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:47 PM (MVjcR)

186 They use Boomerite, a reactionary explosive much like Tannerite, but more potent. Its mixed and containerized on site for the event.

Too bad they don't make clays out of that. Would spice up trap shooting.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:47 PM (lD3vL)

187 red, you mean your bound book, i assume. you provide that.
Brownells book for gunsmiths is nice, i'd assume the sales centric book is good too. slightly different layouts.

Posted by: Gooshy at November 18, 2018 08:47 PM (Nberq)

188 questions for those in the know:
do they send me a book, or do i have to buy one someplace? if so, where?
Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 08:39 PM (Dagiw)

Congrats!

You can buy purpose-printed books, but lots of C&Rs just repurpose a blank ledger from Staples or quad ruled engineering notebook. Some download and print templates and use comb binders or whatever. It just can't be a stack of loose sheets or an electronic-only record (though 3 ring binders should be fine).

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2018 08:47 PM (t+qrx)

189 Do I count?

Sadly, not anymore.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:48 PM (lD3vL)

190 "Seen".
By whom?

Many people like me see flag-burning as a threat to me and my way of life. Historically , commies did it when they wanted to intimidate my nation.

Do I count?
Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:46 PM (LL1Be)

----------------

You are asking me to defend something that I alreadt stated I disagreed with. Had you quoted my full post instead of cherry picking, that would be obvious.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 18, 2018 08:49 PM (ffYR/)

191 Antisocialist @ 168- Mrs. E's carry is a micro9, but when she goes to her deerstand she packs a Ruger GP100.

Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 08:49 PM (zLDYs)

192 Universally, the flag burner isn't looking to frighten/intimidate
someone, it is about provoking someone (the one offended at flag
burning) to throw the first punch.

Flag burning is all about getting someone else to do a crime.

Not seeing a significant difference.

Also, are there enhanced penalties for terrorists for yelling "Allahu Akbar" right before attempting the murder of infidels like me?

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:49 PM (LL1Be)

193

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:49 PM (LL1Be)

194

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:49 PM (lD3vL)

195

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:50 PM (LL1Be)

196 You guys are firing blanks

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 08:50 PM (miE9U)

197 Does the gun thread barrel have Tannerite in it?

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2018 08:50 PM (VhKw6)

198 What the fuck with the italics?

I closed the tag 3 times, Pixy.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:51 PM (LL1Be)

199 Also, are there enhanced penalties for terrorists for yelling "Allahu Akbar" right before attempting the murder of infidels like me?
Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:49 PM (LL1Be)

Well, there should be.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 08:52 PM (fDU8w)

200 I closed the tag 3 times, Pixy.

Apparently not.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:52 PM (lD3vL)

201 yankeefifth

I really really do not like hate crimes.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 08:52 PM (hyuyC)

202 Hating hate crimes is a hate crime!

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 08:53 PM (miE9U)

203 Ask Nakoula Basseley Nakoula about "hate crimes".

Or the Conservative Tea Party organizations attacked by the IRS.

Or Channon Gail Christian and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr.

Or Dinesh D'souza.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:55 PM (LL1Be)

204 COMPLETELY OT But this is INCREDIBLE
=====
http://bit.ly/2zhOOaC -Bohemian Rhapsody - Performed by The Black Jacket Symphony featuring Marc Martel - YouTube

Posted by: MSM is the Deep States Mentall Ill Girlfriend at November 18, 2018 08:56 PM (BqBId)

205 mikeyG

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:56 PM (LL1Be)

206 mikeyG [ / i] [ / i ] [/ i ]

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:57 PM (LL1Be)

207 What the fuck with the italics?

I closed the tag 3 times, Pixy.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:51 PM

Come to me, mikeyG.

*slips Pixy a $20*

Posted by: The Barrel at November 18, 2018 08:57 PM (DVvHX)

208 There are legends of men dead on Civil War battlefields, lying next to their muskets which are loaded with 7, 8, even ten loads stacked upon each other in the barrel, yet the weapon has not been primed and no effort made to discharge it.

In a time before intense training somehow suppressed the normal human aversion to killing another human being, men faced with certain death would still refuse to fire their weapons at those about to kill them.

Makes you think.

Posted by: Sharkman at November 18, 2018 08:57 PM (2eKoI)

209 Perhaps I was not explicit enough in my original post in the other thread that set mikey off. I'm really not in favor of a special category of hate crimes at all, but if lawmakers must virtue-signal about the issue, then doing it as a sentence enhancement is the way to do it, because eventually it will get ignored by judges, and we go back to the status quo.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 08:57 PM (fDU8w)

210 I really really do not like hate crimes.

I think "hate" crimes are a way for the Fe'ral government to step in to a garden variety State or local crime and take over.

The synagogue shooting was a State crime, but because the voting citizens of PA believed that gunning down Jews who are not politicians isn't worthy of the death penalty, no matter how many are killed; due to the nationalized and politicized nature of the crime, the Fe'ral Government co-opted the whole process declaring by fiat that this is a "hate crime" and thus usurping State's rights, the will of the people of PA to protect their mass murderers against a DP sentences (unless the perp guns down a holy and noble politician), by declaring the sentence of "death" before there is even a trial or formal charges filed.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 08:58 PM (lD3vL)

211 You guys are firing blanks

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 18, 2018 08:50 PM (miE9U)

---
mickeyG was trying to avoid me, but i'm a patient predator...

Posted by: The Barrel at November 18, 2018 08:58 PM (Dagiw)

212 Tremendous thread, by the way.

Posted by: Sharkman at November 18, 2018 08:58 PM (2eKoI)

213 208 There are legends of men dead on Civil War battlefields, lying next to their muskets which are loaded with 7, 8, even ten loads stacked upon each other in the barrel, yet the weapon has not been primed and no effort made to discharge it.

In a time before intense training somehow suppressed the normal human aversion to killing another human being, men faced with certain death would still refuse to fire their weapons at those about to kill them.

Makes you think.
Posted by: Sharkman at November 18, 2018 08:57 PM (2eKoI)
------
I can't imagine and sometimes wonder how anyone survived any of those battles.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 08:59 PM (MVjcR)

214 Posted by: The Barrel
===
You should crush mickeyG.

Like a bug.

Posted by: mikeyG at November 18, 2018 08:59 PM (LL1Be)

215 212 Tremendous thread, by the way.
Posted by: Sharkman at November 18, 2018 08:58 PM (2eKoI)
----
Why thanks, Sharkman. Appreciate that.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:00 PM (MVjcR)

216 Is that second photo a Ruger Blackhawk, or at least what's left of one?

Wow. Those things are built like a brick shithouse. Not sure what you'd have to stuff into that cylinder in order to blow it to bits like that. 88mm round from a German Tiger tank, perhaps.

Posted by: Pastafarian at November 18, 2018 09:03 PM (sgHEm)

217 i'm blessed that we deal with not one but two FFLs locally that are happy to give me advice and suggestions.

and i am listening closely and taking notes.

fortunately, given my background in pharmacy dealing CII narcotics and such, and having been an armorer more than once in the Guard, most of that shit is already engraved in my muscle memory, as it were.

to begin with, we're just using it to buy ammo on line, but there will be a day when we'll buy something, and i want all my ducks in a row for that event.

i'm allergic to surprises...

and prison.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 09:03 PM (Dagiw)

218 The barrel with the eleven squibs - can that be done by eleven rounds with primers only?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:04 PM (lD3vL)

219 In a time before intense training somehow suppressed the normal human aversion to killing another human being, men faced with certain death would still refuse to fire their weapons at those about to kill them.

Makes you think.

It makes me think that the nipple was clogged, or that they forgot to clean the oil out of the barrel before loading the first charge.

I think that a couple hours on the range with a Civil War rifle-musket would have cured Colonel Gross of his romantic belief in men that refuse to kill, in favor of the much simpler explanation of malfunctioning guns and men running on autopilot and too scared to notice that only the cap was detonating.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 09:05 PM (bZ7mE)

220 216 Is that second photo a Ruger Blackhawk, or at least what's left of one?

Wow. Those things are built like a brick shithouse. Not sure what you'd have to stuff into that cylinder in order to blow it to bits like that. 88mm round from a German Tiger tank, perhaps.
Posted by: Pastafarian at November 18, 2018 09:03 PM (sgHEm)
-----
That's what it looks like to me.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:06 PM (MVjcR)

221 fortunately, given my background in pharmacy dealing CII narcotics and such,

You would have made far more money if you were dealing schedule I. And a much more interesting customer base when making the transition into dealing firearms.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:06 PM (lD3vL)

222 I am ruthlessly unforgiving.

Posted by: The Minx 0.7 alpha at November 18, 2018 09:07 PM (Tyii7)

223 It gets mentioned once in a while on the gun thread but it could be fun to have a thread on all the bad information and impressions about firearms shown on TV and in movies. The obvious ones are the 29 shot single action revolvers or fire fights without hearing protection where people can hear whispers right after.

There's room for humor in the topic but I wonder how many newcomers have fired a 357 or 44 magnum and wondered where their hearing went.

Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2018 09:08 PM (758Rh)

224 218 The barrel with the eleven squibs - can that be done by eleven rounds with primers only?
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:04 PM (lD3vL)
---------
Yes, absolutely, but I'm not sure if it would bulge the barrel like that. I'm just guessing, though.

Primers are surprisingly strong - about like a 22 cartridge, at least sound wise.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:08 PM (MVjcR)

225 Regarding cartridge pressure. Could one build a test fixture to measure that? Suppose you made a "dummy" chamber, very, very stout, with an equally stout breechblock. A short smooth barrel with a piston in it. Chamber end of the piston is recessed to make a smooth fit to the bullet. The other end is fitted with a hardened point tip, like in a industrial hardness tester. Place the whole thing in an arbor press frame, and fire it by pulling a long string (or electrically, if you must). Round fires, drives piston out, point makes divot in target plate. Size of divot is related to chamber pressure. (related, but not necessarily in a linear fashion)

Calibrate it by firing rounds of known, agreed-upon chamber pressures.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:10 PM (fDU8w)

226 really really do not like hate crimes.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at N

lol, I hate them.

my guess is that hate crimes were the way to get the camel's nose under the tent for pc.

you start with some things that are so heinous and horrendous that they need some special criminal category to handle them.

once you get some to agree with that they it is not hard to ease them into the belief that there are some words and ideas that are too horrendous and henious to speak.

evil people.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:10 PM (MTjB1)

227 I never understood the hate crime designation. It should have been some variation of first degree murder, where the premeditation is replaced by targeting of a victim of certain characteristics instead of targeting a known individual. To try to dogpile extra charges based on conjecture or assumed biases is too arbitrary.

Posted by: Johnny Dangerously at November 18, 2018 09:11 PM (VWE5i)

228 Pic. Yup, counted the pieces. Looks to be 14, ergo, M14.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 18, 2018 09:12 PM (xSo9G)

229 Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2018 09:08 PM (758Rh)
-------
I'm working on something sort of like that for next week. Although confined to one particular 'gospel truth'. I'm not enough of a tv or movie guy to think of many examples in popular cultur.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:12 PM (MVjcR)

230 yankeefifth

I used to not believe in evil.

I do now.

I guess the ultimate purpose is to have crimes to charge all the unbelievers. I expect to see crimes for climate change deniers in my lifetime.
In a rational world, climate change deniers would be called ethical, data-driven scientists.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:13 PM (hyuyC)

231 a thread on all the bad information and impressions about firearms shown on TV and in movies.

Or when the protagonist gets the total crap beaten out of him, but manages to slowly lift his bloody self from the ground, huffing and puffing, produces a snub nose pocket .38, and from the dark and gloom manages to fire his one an only shot at a moving target 50 yards away scoring what appears to be a CNS hit due to the instant death of the intended target.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:14 PM (lD3vL)

232 I have never done any type of reloads, but my friend's dad did. We took a bunch of his primers and put them on a railroad track and waited for a train to watch the engineers freak out. We were horrible children. I won't tell you what we did with the gunpowder because it was probably even more illegal than messing with train tracks.

Posted by: no good deed at November 18, 2018 09:14 PM (1uG1d)

233 Y5 @ 226--, you are exactly right. It's like the old punchline, 'we've already determined you're a prostitute. Now we're just dickering price.'

Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 09:15 PM (zLDYs)

234 Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:10 PM (fDU8w)
----
Yes, there are proofing tools for measuring chamber pressure, but if I recall correctly they measure the degree of expansion in the chamber steel. Or something like that.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:15 PM (MVjcR)

235 There are legends of men dead on Civil War battlefields, lying next to their muskets which are loaded with 7, 8, even ten loads stacked upon each other in the barrel, yet the weapon has not been primed and no effort made to discharge it.

In a time before intense training somehow suppressed the normal human aversion to killing another human being, men faced with certain death would still refuse to fire their weapons at those about to kill them.

Makes you think.
Posted by: Sharkman at N

wouldn't you think they were too terrified to fire the gun?

we took a guy pheasant hunting once. he was an idiot on every level but we did not realize this until we were en route to the hunting fields.

he used some lousy pump shotgun. every time a bird got airborne he would start cycling his pump until he was out of shells. never pulled the trigger once. when the shooting was over he could not quit yelling about how he had "beamed" every bird in the field.

were the field not so overgrown we would have had someone walk behind him and collect his shells.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:15 PM (MTjB1)

236 I guess the ultimate purpose is to have crimes to charge all the unbelievers. I expect to see crimes for climate change deniers in my lifetime.
In a rational world, climate change deniers would be called ethical, data-driven scientists.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:13 PM (hyuyC)

Even using the term "denier" without the scare quotes is letting the Left set the terms of discourse. It's an attempt to otherize climate skeptics by putting them in the same bin as Holocaust deniers.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:16 PM (fDU8w)

237 I agree that photo looks like a Ruger Blackhawk. I can't imagine what would blow out the top strap like that. Some reloading manuals had a separate section for loads only safe in Blackhawks and Contenders because they were so strong. This was before the Super Blackhawk came along. Scary.

Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2018 09:17 PM (758Rh)

238 a thread on all the bad information and impressions about firearms shown on TV and in movies.

Or practically any spaghetti western where the protagonist fans his single action revolver striking six lethal center mass targets conveniently spaced equally apart in a semi circle.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:17 PM (lD3vL)

239 a thread on all the bad information and impressions about firearms shown on TV and in movies.

Silencers make any weapon sound like a dart gun.

Posted by: t-bird at November 18, 2018 09:17 PM (Z1eux)

240 used to not believe in evil.

I do now.

I guess the ultimate purpose is to have crimes to charge all the unbelievers. I expect to see crimes for climate change deniers in my lifetime.
In a rational world, climate change deniers would be called ethical, data-driven scientists.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at N

same here, except I do believe that logic and reason will ultimately win out. the worry is how much suffering we will have to endure before they do.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:18 PM (MTjB1)

241 Even using the term "denier" without the scare quotes is letting the Left set the terms of discourse. It's an attempt to otherize climate skeptics by putting them in the same bin as Holocaust deniers.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at N

you are unfortunately right.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:18 PM (MTjB1)

242 This was before the Super Blackhawk came along. Scary.

Then you consider the S&W 460XVR and what it is capable of.

You don't simply fire the .460 magnum, you detonate it.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:19 PM (lD3vL)

243 219
I think that a couple hours on the range with a Civil War rifle-musket would have cured Colonel Gross of his romantic belief in men that refuse to kill, in favor of the much simpler explanation of malfunctioning guns and men running on autopilot and too scared to notice that only the cap was detonating.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 09:05 PM (bZ7mE)

Yes, I always figured that they were loading and firing as fast as they could, and with the noise of battle, failed to notice that their own musket was not actually firing.

Posted by: rickl at November 18, 2018 09:19 PM (sdi6R)

244 Yes, there are proofing tools for measuring chamber pressure, but if I recall correctly they measure the degree of expansion in the chamber steel. Or something like that.

They used to use lead and copper washers, and see how many were crushed. My copy of Lyman's Black Powder Handbook has all the pressures listed in Lead or Copper Crush Units. Problem is that it isn't possible to translate that into psi. Nowadays they can directly measure that kind of pressure, I think.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 09:19 PM (bZ7mE)

245 @ 226--, you are exactly right. It's like the old punchline, 'we've already determined you're a prostitute. Now we're just dickering price.'
Posted by: Eromero at N

sad but true.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:19 PM (MTjB1)

246 fortunately, given my background in pharmacy dealing CII narcotics and such,

You would have made far more money if you were dealing schedule I.
And a much more interesting customer base when making the transition
into dealing firearms.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:06 PM (lD3vL)

---
yeah, i saw that right after i poasted...

"...dealing with CII narcotics..."
one j*b i had was auditing anesthesia records and anesthesiologists.

one guy was obviously diverting ketamine, but absolutely NO one would act on it... and it was for own use on duty.

the moar you know about health care, the moar you pray you stay healthy.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 09:20 PM (Dagiw)

247 Late to the great thread, as usual.
Yep, have had one squib, likely primer with no powder. Distraction during reload, maybe.

Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:20 PM (sYLo5)

248 Gather around, ya'll and pay heed. The lesson for this holiday season, as hunting season winds down, is "one shot, one kill."

Delicious steaks are just a butcher board away.

Posted by: Fritz at November 18, 2018 09:20 PM (Z9C5C)

249 Alberta Oil Peon

And yet they have no control over the solar progression cycle.

And there is an identifiable world-wide feedback mechanism to reduce carbon dioxide levels, and get this, it produces oxygen!

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:20 PM (hyuyC)

250 Even using the term "denier" without the scare quotes is letting the Left set the terms of discourse. It's an attempt to otherize climate skeptics by putting them in the same bin as Holocaust deniers.

I just refer to them - to their faces - as "Mathusians". Almost all of the time they have no idea what I mean, and that is why it must be said with the tone and facial express of contempt.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:20 PM (lD3vL)

251 I expect to see crimes for climate change deniers in my lifetime.

I expect we'll see show trials and convictions in Europe by the end of the decade.

Great thread. Wish I had caught the reloading bug myself. Could have saved a considerable amount of denaro over the years.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at November 18, 2018 09:22 PM (Tyii7)

252 It's Sunday evening. Do you know where you're Guns are?

Posted by: jakee308 at November 18, 2018 09:22 PM (D+X8V)

253 Yes, there are proofing tools for measuring chamber pressure, but if I recall correctly they measure the degree of expansion in the chamber steel. Or something like that.
Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:15 PM (MVjcR)

Well, I was thinking about something that could be made by anyone with a decent lathe. Your "chamber" could be a two-inch diameter slug of mild steel, your breach plug a large bolt, and the piston a piece of hardened steel drill rod.

You make divots with several different brands and hotness of factory ammo, measure divot sizes, and then see where you handloads fall in relation.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:22 PM (fDU8w)

254
244 Yes, there are proofing tools for measuring chamber pressure, but if I recall correctly they measure the degree of expansion in the chamber steel. Or something like that.

They used to use lead and copper washers, and see how many were crushed. My copy of Lyman's Black Powder Handbook has all the pressures listed in Lead or Copper Crush Units. Problem is that it isn't possible to translate that into psi. Nowadays they can directly measure that kind of pressure, I think.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 09:19 PM (bZ7mE)
-------
That's starting to sound familiar. I think one of the units of measurement is CUP for copper units (of) pressure

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:23 PM (MVjcR)

255 230
I expect to see crimes for climate change deniers in my lifetime.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:13 PM (hyuyC)

Hell, plenty of people have explicitly called for that.

Posted by: rickl at November 18, 2018 09:24 PM (sdi6R)

256 Notorious BFD

Time is the fuel we burn with no reload. Buying ammo commercially is time saving.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:24 PM (hyuyC)

257 252 It's Sunday evening. Do you know where you're Guns are?

I have been fondling the Grand Power P1 this whole evening.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:25 PM (lD3vL)

258 What was the civil war procedure for clearing the barrel of a faulty cartridge? Would be difficult to notice lack of recoil, even in haste.

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at November 18, 2018 09:25 PM (0MIFZ)

259 Great thread. Wish I had caught the reloading bug myself. Could have saved a considerable amount of denaro over the years.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at November 18, 2018 09:22 PM (Tyii7)

Not sure I've saved any money, but I shoot a lot more for the same amount.
Yeah, I guess it's the same.

Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:25 PM (sYLo5)

260 > You make divots with several different brands and hotness of factory ammo, measure divot sizes, and then see where you handloads fall in relation.

Sort of an inverted Rockwell or Brinnell hardness tester. Instead of a controlled indentation force with an unknown hardness test plate, you have an unknown indentation force with a controlled hardness test plate.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at November 18, 2018 09:27 PM (vOkuK)

261 Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:22 PM (fDU8w)
-----
The field of internal ballistics (before the bullet leaves the gun) is really pretty interesting but I just know something about a few key aspects related to reloading. Powder burn rates and case capacity often behave counter intuitively, or so I'm told.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:27 PM (MVjcR)

262 wouldn't you think they were too terrified to fire the gun?

- Y5

Yes. Knowing myself, were I in such a situation (standing shoulder to shoulder a hundred yards away from a crowd shooting at me) I know my mind would simply have gone blank and I am sure my autonomous nervous system would have tried to make an attempt at least to have me appear to be human. There was nothing rational at all I what those men were faced with in the Civil War. Standing still in broad daylight firing across fields. Nuts.

Posted by: Sharkman at November 18, 2018 09:27 PM (2eKoI)

263 The barrel is ribbed for her pleasure, and rifled for his pleasure.

Posted by: Fritz at November 18, 2018 09:27 PM (Z9C5C)

264 rickl

If I was in the dock, I like to think I would stay true to my scientific roots.

"Sun Cycles exist."

IF we do not change course, the world will be in trouble.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:28 PM (hyuyC)

265 258 What was the civil war procedure for clearing the barrel of a faulty cartridge? Would be difficult to notice lack of recoil, even in haste.

Picking up the rifle of your dead comrade.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:28 PM (lD3vL)

266 230
I expect to see crimes for climate change deniers in my lifetime.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:13 PM (hyuyC)
---
they better hurry up and get started before the mini Ice Age gets here, because they're all going to freeze to death in their solar heated efficiency apartments.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 09:28 PM (Dagiw)

267
a thread on all the bad information and impressions about firearms shown on TV and in movies.

Old Western movies and TV shows where the guy with the revolver outshoots the guys with rifles.

Posted by: Rick E. Ricardo at November 18, 2018 09:29 PM (aKsyK)

268 Yes. Knowing myself, were I in such a situation (standing shoulder to shoulder a hundred yards away from a crowd shooting at me) I know my mind would simply have gone blank and I am sure my autonomous nervous system would have tried to make an attempt at least to have me appear to be human. There was nothing rational at all I what those men were faced with in the Civil War. Standing still in broad daylight firing across fields. Nuts.
Posted by: Sharkman at N

oh yeah, you are right. there was nothing rational about what they were doing, daylight march towards guys shooting at them. yeesh.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:30 PM (MTjB1)

269 247 Late to the great thread, as usual.
Yep, have had one squib, likely primer with no powder. Distraction during reload, maybe.
Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:20 PM (sYLo5)
----
Thanks, RI Red. I suspect a primer only is about the most common cause, wouldn't you think?

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:30 PM (MVjcR)

270 AOP, look up "copper units of pressure". I'm on a phone and cant do squat.

Posted by: Gooshy at November 18, 2018 09:31 PM (Nberq)

271 Guns will be important when harvesting medical supplies and chicken noodle soup cans from Hilldog supporters in the freezing times.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:31 PM (hyuyC)

272 In any event, the last thing I seem to think about is cost factor when I'm throwing lead downrange. It usually hits me when I get home and realize I left with a shit ton of ammo and came back with none.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (Tyii7)

273 Old Western movies and TV shows where the guy with the revolver outshoots the guys with rifles.

Given the ease of access to firearms experts, I am convinced that Hollywood has some sort of informal deal where they deliberately show techniques that, if copied, would result in rapid injury or death in the practitioner.

Part of Hollywood's War on Gun Owners. Show them how to get wounded or jailed as Really Good Ideas.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (lD3vL)

274
One America News Retweeted
GCUCCIA_OANN's avatar
Gabrielle Cuccia @GCUCCIA_OANN
27m
#BREAKING: #BrendaSnipes has submitted her resignation. #BrowardCounty

Posted by: MSM is the Deep States Mentall Ill Girlfriend at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (BqBId)

275 you know, one thing I think would be useful and would like to have the media do is quit referring to assault rifles and assault rifle bans. simply refer to them as rifles and rifle bans.

someone, Tucker, whoever, should be asking his guests why they want to ban rifles. when they reply that they only want to ban assault rifles, make them explain what an assault rifle is and distinguish it from a regular rifle. make them carry the burden.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (MTjB1)

276 Calibrate it by firing rounds of known, agreed-upon chamber pressures.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:10 PM (fDU8w)

There are a number of different tests that do that, traditionally they were "crushing a metal block" either of lead or copper.

The problem is that there is also issues with the burn rates and pressure curves of different powders, and also things like the shape of the chamber and the throat and the barrel also would come into play. Most of these pressure calibrations, from when I paid attention in the early 90's at least, were estimations from a standard chamber.

George Nonte talked about the variables, as did Frank Barnes and they both considered any computation to predict pressure would be so complicated it would give bad information as it would give good.

Posted by: Kindltot at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (mUa7G)

277 > #BREAKING: #BrendaSnipes has submitted her resignation.

Yeah, only in Chicago do you get to keep collecting a government paycheck while you're in the jug.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at November 18, 2018 09:33 PM (vOkuK)

278 Sort of an inverted Rockwell or Brinnell hardness tester. Instead of a controlled indentation force with an unknown hardness test plate, you have an unknown indentation force with a controlled hardness test plate.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at November 18, 2018 09:27 PM (vOkuK)

Exactly! In fact, I was just watching a youtube of Brinnell hardness testing.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:34 PM (fDU8w)

279 271 Guns will be important when harvesting medical supplies and chicken noodle soup cans from Hilldog supporters in the freezing times.

Yep, medical supplies, along with any other addiction item, make excellent barter.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:34 PM (lD3vL)

280 > Yep, medical supplies, along with any other addiction item, make excellent barter.

Learn how to make beer, wine, and whiskey.
Learn how to grow tobacco (which can be grown in surprisingly cold climates... it won't be top quality, but it will do the job).

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at November 18, 2018 09:35 PM (vOkuK)

281 Notorious BFD

While my wife pledges on a regular basis to not visit me in jail, she is thankful my vices are so cost-effective. Books, synthpop and trance CDs and the very occasional range time.

My last range time I realized I did not want a left-handed Tabor, after firing a right-handed one. Saved $1,900 with that decision.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:35 PM (hyuyC)

282 BrendaSnipes has submitted her resignation.

Whistling past the graveyard.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at November 18, 2018 09:36 PM (Tyii7)

283 266 230
I expect to see crimes for climate change deniers in my lifetime.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:13 PM (hyuyC)
---
they better hurry up and get started before the mini Ice Age gets here, because they're all going to freeze to death in their solar heated efficiency apartments.
Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 09:28 PM (Dagiw)

I said yesterday that the solution for a colder climate will turn out to be exactly the same as the solution for a warmer climate: Less individual liberty and more socialism.

Posted by: rickl at November 18, 2018 09:36 PM (sdi6R)

284 AOP, look up "copper units of pressure". I'm on a phone and cant do squat.
Posted by: Gooshy at November 18, 2018 09:31 PM (Nberq)

Weasel's third link at the top of this thread covers that quite nicely, albeit without any diagrams of the test setup.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:36 PM (fDU8w)

285 One America News Retweeted
GCUCCIA_OANN's avatar
Gabrielle Cuccia @GCUCCIA_OANN
27m
#BREAKING: #BrendaSnipes has submitted her resignation. #BrowardCounty
Posted by: MSM is the Deep States Mentall Ill Girlfriend at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (BqBId)

--------------

I'd rather that she had been cuffed and perp walked, butI'll take it.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 18, 2018 09:36 PM (ffYR/)

286 Snip snipes

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 18, 2018 09:37 PM (Fh8wK)

287 Yep, Weasel. Seems to me that powder errors are more likely to be on the high side - double charge being king. Underloading would only likely occur on purpose, e.g. checking out the low side of a recipe, as you noted.
Much easier to simply skip over one cartridge. That's why I try to follow the exact same sequence with every load. Funnel goes to next empty before anything else is done.

Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:37 PM (sYLo5)

288 My last range time I realized I did not want a left-handed ~~Tabor~~ Tavor, after firing a right-handed one. Saved $1,900 with that decision.

You uncircumcised Philistine.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:37 PM (lD3vL)

289 snipes was merely trying to resign before she got fired.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:37 PM (MTjB1)

290 Less individual liberty and more socialism.

Well, duh, you have to be more social what with all the huddling together for warmth because wood burning fireplaces are banned.

Posted by: no good deed at November 18, 2018 09:37 PM (1uG1d)

291 would have thought getting fired would have been better for snipes' career as a civil right hero.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:38 PM (MTjB1)

292 I had some improperly crimped .300 blk ammo from....an L.A. based ammo company. It was reman and it had some rounds that...worked loose. While I was shooting at the range.

It was a miracle I didn't have a kaboom. I got the gun unfucked but, apart from a brief test fire with factory ammo, I haven't touched it since. Probably just voodoo fear but....

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2018 09:38 PM (xJa6I)

293 Only sound worse than the hammer falling on a primer without a bang? The sound of an aircraft engine that just now up and quit. Whoa mama.

Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 09:38 PM (zLDYs)

294 Blue Bird of F'ing Joy

Thank you for the typo correction.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:39 PM (hyuyC)

295 Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:37 PM (sYLo5)
------
When I'm reloading handgun cartridges, I dump the powder into 50 cases in a loading block then inspect each of the 50 visually with a light. I'm like a nervous cat.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:39 PM (MVjcR)

296 would have thought getting fired would have been better for snipes' career as a civil right hero

Yes. A much higher martyrdom factor.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at November 18, 2018 09:39 PM (Tyii7)

297 If I am not mistaken. Supervisors of Ekections are put there by the Gov. Right?
Lets not fuck this up

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 18, 2018 09:39 PM (Fh8wK)

298 What was the civil war procedure for clearing the barrel of a faulty cartridge? Would be difficult to notice lack of recoil, even in haste.

Picking up the rifle of your dead comrade.

I was about to say the same thing.

To remove a stuck projectile in a muzzleloader -or one loaded without powder (a surprisingly common mistake) one usually uses a screw attachment on the ramrod to screw into the soft lead and pull it out. A more complicated procedure was to remove the breechplug and simply push it out. Usually that is a gunsmithing job, but there are period accounts of people doing that in their own homes or out in the woods. Neither are really good procedures to have to follow when you are being shot at, though.

These days we can use pressurized air, as well, and people have been known to dribble enough powder down the touch hole or nipple to get the ball out of the barrel, though in the case of the latter you have to be careful not leave a gap between the powder and the ball.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 09:40 PM (bZ7mE)

299 Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 18, 2018 09:36 PM (ffYR/)
=====
Patience Young Grasshopper, why would someone resign that still had 2 more years to go, Including a Presidential Election

Posted by: MSM is the Deep States Mentall Ill Girlfriend at November 18, 2018 09:40 PM (BqBId)

300 Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 18, 2018 09:39 PM (Fh8wK)
====
Nope she was elected

Posted by: MSM is the Deep States Mentall Ill Girlfriend at November 18, 2018 09:40 PM (BqBId)

301 Ekected? I thought I read Jeb appointed her?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 18, 2018 09:41 PM (Fh8wK)

302 Yesterday at the range, shot some with my new Ruger 10/22 take down and my PPQ 45.

I discovered that the 10/22 is not 100% intuitive. I had noob face for a long time. And once I got my ass on straight, I discovered two of my non-Ruger magazines...wouldn't feed ammo out of it.

NOT. AMUSED.

I tossed both mags and used the Ruger mags which actually worked. Still had a couple ammo mis-fires but...eh. Rimfire. It comes with the territory.

I was still shooting to the right, but that may have been how I was mounting the rifle.

The PPQ shot well, very very well when I could focus. Shooting is as much mental as physical, I've found. It makes it a challenge but that's why I love it. It's me against me.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2018 09:41 PM (xJa6I)

303
It done blowed up real good!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at November 18, 2018 09:42 PM (pNxlR)

304 no good deed

Cleaner air, a colder world, and more power density needs makes nuclear power the wave of the future. In a rational world.

I'd throw in high capacity, room temp superconductor research and urban farming high rises.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:42 PM (hyuyC)

305 Part of Hollywood's War on Gun Owners. Show them how to get wounded or jailed as Really Good Ideas.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (lD3vL)

---
from people i've talked to, Hollyweird *gets* expert advice, but they ignore it for whatever the director thinks looks kewl...

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2018 09:42 PM (Dagiw)

306 George Nonte talked about the variables, as did Frank Barnes and they both considered any computation to predict pressure would be so complicated it would give bad information as it would give good.

Posted by: Kindltot at November 18, 2018 09:32 PM (mUa7G)

Well, my proposed gadget would not "predict" anything. What it would allow you to do is compare the effects of an unknown (or new) loading to the effects of known loadings with generally-accepted values of chamber pressure, and allow one to estimate the chamber pressure of the unknown.

And it would be easy to build from commonly-available metal stock.

And damn right, if I built one, I would arrange to operate it remotely, in case something went wrong.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:42 PM (fDU8w)

307 Only sound worse than the hammer falling on a primer without a bang? The sound of an aircraft engine that just now up and quit. Whoa mama.
Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 09:38 PM (zLDYs)

---------------

Having had this experience as a private pilot, concur. Fortunately I was on initial approach and could deadstick it in.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 18, 2018 09:43 PM (ffYR/)

308 Shooting is as much mental as physical, I've found. It makes it a challenge but that's why I love it. It's me against me.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2018 09:41 PM (xJa6I)
-----
This x a bazillion.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:43 PM (MVjcR)

309 NaCly Dog

Seriously, other than the greater than 2MOA accuracy, the high cost and the great quantity of plastic, what do you not like about the Tavor?

I like the excellent weapons retention, tight confinement/CQB capability, and quickness since all the weight is in the shoulder.

If its the AR-15 ergos, there is the X95.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:43 PM (lD3vL)

310 Only sound worse than the hammer falling on a primer without a bang? The sound of an aircraft engine that just now up and quit. Whoa mama.
Posted by: Eromero at N

how does the line go? the loudest noise in gunfight is when your gun goes click.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:44 PM (MTjB1)

311 Ok I see Bush appointed her to fill a spot then she got elected

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 18, 2018 09:44 PM (Fh8wK)

312 If you were to weigh the finished cartridges, would a double-charge or no-charge stand out enough to notice?

Posted by: JB1000 at November 18, 2018 09:45 PM (WxYoh)

313 So in Broward County it will always be a left einger

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 18, 2018 09:45 PM (Fh8wK)

314 Just got my first gun last week: a Ruger Mark IV (22LR), which is a lot of fun to learn the ins and outs on. Bought a Bersa Thunder (.380 ACP) today and can't wait to hit the range.

This is an addicting hobby

Posted by: In Exile at November 18, 2018 09:46 PM (SDmIR)

315 well, if she resigns in the middle of her term does the gov get to appoint her replacement?

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:46 PM (MTjB1)

316 There was a problem in the late 40's and early 50's with reports of 30-06 squib loads blowing surplus rifles up. There was a concern that the empty space in the cartridge would somehow allow an amplification of the pressure, or the powder would pulverize and turn into a fuel-air explosive.

The experts and gun writers tried to re-create the issue but had poor success in predicting it. There was an issue with misfires when the muzzle might be a bit low in that the powder was not in touch with the primer and the flash was not able to ignite the powder. George Nonte suggested a card wad over black powder to keep it compressed correctly. Black powder does need to be compressed slightly to ignite correctly

Filling the cartridge with cream of wheat was suggested when "blowing out" or pressure forming improved shouldered brass, or doing something like turning trimmed down 30-06 into 7.7 Arisaka.
This was always done with a squib load of powder, cream of wheat, and either a dribble of wax or a card-wad in the neck to keep the cream of wheat from dribbling into the action of your gun.

I don't think anyone suggests that now.

Posted by: Kindltot at November 18, 2018 09:46 PM (mUa7G)

317 OT, but my club put a 1,000 yd range in over the summer. I've been away and haven't gotten my membership renewal back yet.
Can't wait to give it a whirl. That's when I'll be on the phone to Weasel!

Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:46 PM (sYLo5)

318 from people i've talked to, Hollyweird *gets* expert advice, but they ignore it for whatever the director thinks looks kewl...

Like how the hero can somehow manage to get a good sight picture when simultaneously firing pistols from the left and right hands.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:47 PM (lD3vL)

319 Ekected? I thought I read Jeb appointed her?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 18, 2018 09:41 PM (Fh8wK)

----------------

She was appointed in '03 to fill a term by Yeb! After that she was elected.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 18, 2018 09:47 PM (ffYR/)

320 318 from people i've talked to, Hollyweird *gets* expert advice, but they ignore it for whatever the director thinks looks kewl...

Like how the hero can somehow manage to get a good sight picture when simultaneously firing pistols from the left and right hands.
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:47 PM (lD3vL)

There's a really good scene with that in The Usual Suspects. In the parking garage fight, you see Stephen Baldwin lining up both pistols individually rather than John Woo-ing it.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2018 09:48 PM (xJa6I)

321 have you considered the steyr aug or fn2000 in lieu of the tavor?

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:48 PM (MTjB1)

322 Hey, I got 3000 fps from my cream of wheat!

Posted by: That irredeemable guy who always says... at November 18, 2018 09:48 PM (Tyii7)

323 Guns will be important when harvesting medical supplies and chicken noodle soup cans from Hilldog supporters in the freezing times.

Awww, you got chicken noodle soup? All I got was a bag of kale...

Posted by: t-bird at November 18, 2018 09:48 PM (QrTqV)

324
Well, my proposed gadget would not "predict" anything. What it would allow you to do is compare the effects of an unknown (or new) loading to the effects of known loadings with generally-accepted values of chamber pressure, and allow one to estimate the chamber pressure of the unknown.

And it would be easy to build from commonly-available metal stock.

And damn right, if I built one, I would arrange to operate it remotely, in case something went wrong.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:42 PM (fDU8w)
-------
There is some very good predictive software that can be used for this, with a very large library of powders and cartridges. One of the ones I use is Quickload, and I compare it to observations on the range (mostly velocity) but it also estimates pressures. Just mentioning it to demonstrate some of the tools available, not a substitute for bench tests.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:48 PM (MVjcR)

325 AOP, i missed that. Nosler's homepage might be informative.

Posted by: Gooshy at November 18, 2018 09:49 PM (Nberq)

326 314 Just got my first gun last week: a Ruger Mark IV (22LR), which is a lot of fun to learn the ins and outs on. Bought a Bersa Thunder (.380 ACP) today and can't wait to hit the range.

This is an addicting hobby
Posted by: In Exile at November 18, 2018 09:46 PM (SDmIR)

It really is

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2018 09:49 PM (xJa6I)

327 > To remove a stuck projectile in a muzzleloader -or one loaded without powder (a surprisingly common mistake) one usually uses a screw attachment on the ramrod

They had bigger versions for use on cannon, if I remember right.

Especially with naval guns, you'd have to draw and replace the charge periodically because it would absorb moisture.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at November 18, 2018 09:49 PM (vOkuK)

328 Blue Bird of F'ing Joy

I did not like the way the Tavor handled on the range. Not a rational reason, but it felt too clunky.

All the fine qualities you noted were part of my selection process, which is why I test fired the weapon. Plus Academy Sports had it in the online catalog.

I'll look into the X95. I want a left-handed CQB weapon, just because.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:50 PM (hyuyC)

329 312 If you were to weigh the finished cartridges, would a double-charge or no-charge stand out enough to notice?
Posted by: JB1000 at November 18, 2018 09:45 PM (WxYoh)
------
With an accurate scale, it sure would.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:50 PM (MVjcR)

330 individually rather than John Woo-ing it.

The problem I have with John Woo-ing it, is getting the doves to fly around me when putting rounds down range.

Other than the dove problem, the RSO is usually forcefully removing from the range a few seconds into practicing some of those advanced techniques.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:51 PM (lD3vL)

331 I have been giving very serious thought to a Kel Tec RFB in .308.

The wife has given a green light for another rifle purchase before the WA law goes into effect in Jan.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2018 09:51 PM (xJa6I)

332 These days we can use pressurized air, as well, and people have been known to dribble enough powder down the touch hole or nipple to get the ball out of the barrel, though in the case of the latter you have to be careful not leave a gap between the powder and the ball.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 18, 2018 09:40 PM (bZ7mE)

Slide a brass tube down the barrel from the muzzle end. Using a long-shanked drill bit, that just fits the I.D. of that brass tube, drill through the stuck bullet with a tap drill of appropriate size. For a .50 cal rifle, that might be 3/8" N.C. Tap the drilled hole, using a tap on a long shank. Wrap electrical tap around most of the tap so it cannot scratch the rifling. Withdraw the tap, and thread in a piece of threaded rod; attach to a slide hammer, and pull it out.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 09:51 PM (fDU8w)

333 330 individually rather than John Woo-ing it.

The problem I have with John Woo-ing it, is getting the doves to fly around me when putting rounds down range.

Other than the dove problem, the RSO is usually forcefully removing from the range a few seconds into practicing some of those advanced techniques.
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:51 PM (lD3vL)

They really hate it when you take someone's Face Off.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2018 09:52 PM (xJa6I)

334
Can't wait to give it a whirl. That's when I'll be on the phone to Weasel!
Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:46 PM (sYLo5)
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All right!

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 09:52 PM (MVjcR)

335 yankeefifth

Thanks. I'll look into them. Maybe we can hold off the freezing times. This is my Plan A.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 09:52 PM (hyuyC)

336 My problem with "hate crimes", apart from it being an exercise in mind reading, is that it is not applied uniformly. The left pretends they have this new objective principle, but it is really just an excuse for them to commit hate crimes and bash groups they are prejudiced against, and ignore the same hate crimes done by members of groups they favor.

So, it should be done away with. Stick to the original standard. Anything beyond intent does not add to the seriousness of the act, including any ideologies the perp may have had.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at November 18, 2018 09:53 PM (/qEW2)

337 I'll look into the X95. I want a left-handed CQB weapon, just because.

I would trade in my Tavor for a Desertech MDR in a heartbeat. Same bullpup packaging, lighter and far more accurate.

I think it would make an excellent Run & Gun rifle. Now to see how to get it suppressed for night matches.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 18, 2018 09:53 PM (lD3vL)

338 Thanks. I'll look into them. Maybe we can hold off the freezing times. This is my Plan A.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at N

would definitely be better if we could hold off the freezing times.

Posted by: yankeefifth at November 18, 2018 09:54 PM (MTjB1)

339 Removing a misfired muzzleloader?

Why, just grab your Ball-Puller� and have at it!

Posted by: Sharkman at November 18, 2018 09:54 PM (2eKoI)

340 After all, how card can it be? If you can shoot a 1" group at 100 yds, surely you can do 10" at a thousand!

Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:55 PM (sYLo5)

341 Well, good and gentle people, TWD is bout done and so am I. Gets up early, I does.

Posted by: Eromero at November 18, 2018 09:55 PM (zLDYs)

342 *prepares to be humbled at actual 1000 yd shoot*

Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:57 PM (sYLo5)

343 would definitely be better if we could hold off the freezing times.

Posted by: yankeefifth

Seriously.

All these fucking imbeciles pushing GoreBull Warmening as THE END OF THE WORLD have no idea what the true "resting" state of this planet is (hint - we are currently in a slightly warmer interglacial period IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ICE AGE) and has been for the last 20 million years:

MIND-FUCKINGLY COLD!!!

If only public policy was made in the US by people with brains, rather than ignorant people based on hysteria.

/Rant off

Posted by: Sharkman at November 18, 2018 10:00 PM (2eKoI)

344 And there's the ONT. Thanks again, Weasel, for a fun, interesting, and informative thread.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderber's phone at November 18, 2018 10:00 PM (YJxmg)

345 #BREAKING: #BrendaSnipes has submitted her resignation.

Does she get to keep her 2nd pension? Hey, no hard feelings, Governor, right?

Posted by: t-bird at November 18, 2018 10:00 PM (NAs56)

346 Having had this experience as a private pilot, concur. Fortunately I was on initial approach and could deadstick it in.
Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 18, 2018 09:43 PM (ffYR/)

I was a passenger in a Cessna 185 when that happened. On climb-out after takeoff, just when the pilot throttled back after the initial climb. Engine didn't outright quit, but pilot shut it off after we saw fuel streaming past the windows.

Fortunately, the plane was on floats, and there was lots of lake left, so he made a descending 180, and then another, and dead-sticked it into the wind. Very smooth landing. We then drifted down the lake while the float base sent out a motorboat to tow us in.

The mechanic had failed to tighten the fuel injector flare nuts on the freshly-installed engine.

And yes, once that was fixed, we took off again, without incident, and got to where I was going.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 18, 2018 10:00 PM (fDU8w)

347 342 *prepares to be humbled at actual 1000 yd shoot*
Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:57 PM (sYLo5)
----
I can coach you. No worries. Start measuring your neck for medals.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 10:00 PM (MVjcR)

348 Weasel, yankeefifth and Blue Bird of F'ing Joy, thank you.

Good information & lots to think about.

May you all have a wonderful night, full of on-target dreams.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2018 10:01 PM (hyuyC)

349 OK, that it for this week. Thanks everyone for making this fun!!

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 10:02 PM (MVjcR)

350 Well, shootin' buds and budettes, that's about it tonight. Great info from everyone, especially our host.
And everyone, buy the Cookbook! We don't want to see blubell's shiv.

Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 10:02 PM (sYLo5)

351 340 After all, how card can it be? If you can shoot a 1" group at 100 yds, surely you can do 10" at a thousand!
Posted by: RI Red at November 18, 2018 09:55 PM (sYLo5)
--------
You can hold the10 ring!! No problem.

Posted by: Weasel at November 18, 2018 10:04 PM (MVjcR)

352 Bill Hickok drew and reloaded the charges in his cap and ball Navy pistols every morning while drinking his coffee.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 18, 2018 10:23 PM (yQpMk)

353 > Bill Hickok drew and reloaded the charges in his cap and ball Navy pistols every morning while drinking his coffee.

Cautious man. Too bad he screwed up the one time and didn't sit with his back to the wall, but that's all it takes.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at November 18, 2018 10:28 PM (vOkuK)

354 "Have any of the reloaders among us had an accident (or a scare) related to reloading?"

**Action Jackson raises his hand sheepishly as he admits to being a reloading moron.**

Yep. I blew up my Glock with my own reload. Nobody got hurt, for which I am forever thankful.

I got started with reloading back in the Obama years when ammo of pretty much any caliber was unavailable, and even components were scarce. So when I came across a pistol powder that might work, I bought a lot of it. As it turns out, I probably bought a lifetime's supply.

Anyway, my powder is one of those which will allow me to double-fill a case. And I don't remember if the phone rang, or my wife needed me for something, or what it was, but somewhere along the line, I got out of my rhythm in reloading and ended up double charging a case.

I found the round when I was at an IDPA match. **Boom** it went, and I and everyone else knew that something had gone very wrong. The slide was totally locked up, and the explosion blew off the extractor from the right side of the frame and the slide release from the left side.

At the gunsmith the next day, he applied a carefully aimed mallet and got the slide open. The barrel was bulged, so that had to be replaced, as well as the missing parts that I'd blown off the gun. It wasn't until I got home and showed the barrel to my son that he noticed that I'd also cracked the chamber.

Mrs. Action Jackson was livid (not that I blame her), and read me the riot act. So now, I am **very** careful about distractions while I am reloading and after a reloading session, I set aside the ammo until I have a chance to weigh every single round. Anything too far off gets set back on the reloading bench for me to pull the bullets and start over.

Posted by: Action Jackson is my name. Bold Adventure is my game. at November 18, 2018 11:34 PM (kJuhe)

355 Yikes, Action Jackson. Don't know that I have to attention to detail to reload.

Posted by: In Exile at November 19, 2018 12:23 AM (SDmIR)

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