Saturday Gardening Thread: A Moss Rose by Any Other Name . . . [KT]

From Patch Farmstead:

A clone of this very old rose has been planted everywhere I've been. I don't know how old the mom plant is but older than me, was at my grandpa's house.

What a great way to preserve a legacy.

May Roses

It's traditional to think of "Roses" and "June" together, but no reason we can't start early. Around our town, the rose bushes that have died back to root stock have been red and gorgeous the past few weeks with their exuberant, once-blooming flowers, but are starting to fade. There may be some of the heirloom once-blooming roses in Southern California which have already bloomed this year. But most of the roses we plant today bloom more than once a year. Some of the tender ones start early. I think the one above may be one of those. Even though it is old.

Today, another lurker makes her debut on the Gardening Thread with a rose and some other plants down-thread a ways.

Heyo. I'm a lurker (NadineCharmichael). I love the gardening thread! I live in central Tennessee. It's hot here. Melty, don't step on the tar hot. And wet-carpet-even-with-the-air-conditioning-on humid. Also, the soil sucks. Unless you like clay, and then it's still sucky because even the clay is terrible quality. Our state crop is scrub and waving hills of beautiful tall wild grasses. But, we still plant and grow flowers and things because.

[This pic is of] roses from a bush in my front yard. Maybe knock-out roses? I don't know; it came with the house. Perhaps the Horde can identify... This bush also seems to thrive on miniscule water, clay soil, and neglect, with occasional deadheading.

Anybody know what they are?

Moss Roses

Moss Roses are roses which are known as much for their sepals as for their blossoms. The sepals are covered with variable amounts of what to some people looks like moss. It is usually fragrant. The old ones only bloom once a year.

These roses come with a lot of history, and a lot of different names. The one below is know as Crested Moss, Rosa centifolia cristata or Chapeau du Napoleon.

Or in Kansas, Napoleon's Hat.

Moss roses are known for their abundant prickles. It may be better to get a small one that re-blooms. Ralph Moore bred some miniature moss roses in Visalia, California. I bought one once. The "moss" was kind of prickly, left perfume on my hands. I think it was Dresden Doll

You can see that the "moss" on Dresden looks pricklier, even on the sepals, than the "moss" on Crested Moss. I don't understand all the genetics, but some of the "mossy" structures appear to be modified thorns. They excrete perfume, and will perfume your hand. You are likely to cradle the blossom in your hand because the stems are so prickly.

The Moss Roses that Aren't Roses

I have sometimes wondered how little trailing succulent plants that prefer blazing sun came to be called "moss roses". These moss roses are among the few small flowering plants you can plant in the desert in May. They are related to the common weed Purslane (recipe for Puerto Vallarta Salsa at the link).

You may recall that purslane kept one Texan plant breeder alive during the cultural revolution in China. But he developed a dislike for it because it was about all his family had to eat. If you are interested because you have never been reduced to living on purslane while living in a cave, you can find more recipes from the Eat the Weeds guy at the link. (Don't comment on old threads). This is a photo of the weed you can eat, in moderation. It is sometimes called "pigweed", which may offer a clue to how to get it out of a field. Chickens like it, and it increases the amount of 0mega-3 fatty acids in their eggs:

It turns out that Nadine, who sent that single rose photo above, also sent a photo of a relatively recently introduced moss rose (first seen in the 1980s) among other plants. The leaves look a lot like the leaves of common purslane, and it has been mistakenly called by the same species name in the nursery trade:

Planters on my front porch. I did not grow these. I picked out the plants and potted them, though. The edges are lined with moss rose (the white flowers), Superbells (calibrachoa), and sweet potato vine. The center has some kind of very large marigold I'd never seen before but thought they looked really cool, and lantana. It's hot as blazes in the afternoon sun on my porch, so these guys will hold up to the heat (or so I've been told.)

I have a feeling that the moss roses will last longer than the marigolds.

Portulaca is the more common name, I think. I'd never heard of it until I stumbled across it on a gardening site. Lo and behold, my local nursery had acres of them in all different colors. I've found that this plant really hates any kind of shade. Even the ones I planted in the far side of the planters, that get slight shade from the other plants for just an hour or two, are growing up and around the other flowers towards the sun, rather than trailing over the edge of the planter pot. But the blooms are gorgeous , and the hotter it gets, the more it blooms. The leaves are starting to get a waxy look as they store up water for the drought season. Makes the flowers pop even more. Truly amazing.

Cheers!
NadineCharmichael

Here's a closeup of Toucan Scarlet Shades. This one is grown from seed, but will probably not breed true if you save seeds. And there is still some color variation. Note that this cultivar is still misidentified as the same species as edible purslane. Odd that no one has specifically come out and said whether or not this species is edible. Or tasty.

A guy in Australia who studies Australian Portulaca species also took it upon himself to try to untangle the breeding of commercial P. umbraticola and to help correct some of the species mislabeling, which went international.

A paper which talks about the development of this first Portulaca umbraticola series . . . implies that the original plants used to produce the 'Wildfire' cultivars may have involved a smaller-flowered P. umbraticola subspecies that occurs naturally in the southeastern United States. However the 'Wildfire' series was most likely bred from plants originating in South America, because the flowers of the subspecies found there are much larger, with richer tones and have much greater colour diversity. It is reasonable to presume that the progenitors of the 'Wildfire' series were South American plants that were selectively grown by native plant enthusiasts in the US, who perhaps viewed them as showy and longer-lived "substitutes" for the two native subspecies of P. umbraticola. . . .

There are some interesting flower forms grown from cuttings. You can sometimes keep them over winter, on the dry side, in bright light, away from frost.

The only moss roses I knew about growing up were Portulaca grandiflora. We had double ones growing in reflected heat in front of our chimney before the birch tree got big enough to provide some shade.

You can get old-fashioned single Portulaca grandiflora from the Seed Curmudgeon, J.L. Hudson, or a newer strain from Europe.

But most P. grandiflora seeds sold today are for double flowers. The 'Sundial' strain was bred to stay open longer in the day, even after visits by bees. Newer strains have made the flower less daylength sensitive.

Back when breeders were introducing new separate colors in the 'Sundial' strain like 'Peppermint', 'Apricot' and 'Mango', most of my gardening activity consisted of reading seed catalogs. I started to wonder why flowers with such a wide color range were only offered as complete mixtures or as separate colors. I suggested to Park Seed that they might present some more distinctive mixtures. Suggested a couple of names. The results for the Sundial Portulaca strain are pictured below.

These two mixes have been dropped now, but they lasted a quarter century, more or less. You can still get a Tropical Mix (with scarlet, missing white) in an upright and a trailing strain of Portulaca from Harris Seeds. As well as complete color mixtures. They sell pelleted seeds for growers. You can also get some separate colors from Harris, Swallowtail and elsewhere. Breeders give these flowers fun names, like 'Happy Hour' and 'Coconut'.

The winter equivalent of moss roses (in coastal California)

As a child, I was struck by catalog photos of these bright flowers:

These little charmers are from South Africa, where they grow in the fall/winter rainy season. They are drought-tolerant, but look better with some water. These are planted in autumn or winter in Coastal California or in the desert or in Australia. Plant out after danger of frost elsewhere.

Livingstone daisies have flat, succulent leaves up to 3 inches long, with the plants hugging the ground. Flowers have dark centers and are colored pink, white, purple, lavender, crimson, or orange. Plants grow up to 8 inches high and spread to 12 inches wide. The flowers close at night and on cloudy days. . . .

Livingstone daisies need full sun and sandy, well-drained soil. They tolerate drought and are resistant to salt spray, making them good for seaside plantings. Livingstone daisies tend to sunburn in hot, humid weather. Space plants 6 inches apart for full coverage.

Think of them as an annual ice plant. They are fire-retardant if well-watered (until the plants die). I have seen spectacular sheets of these flowers at the UC Irvine Arboretum, which features South African plants. But I have also grown a few in the Intermountain West.

The tiny seeds need darkness to germinate, so should be lightly covered.

There is also a trailing variegated Dorotheathus that sometimes has small double red flowers, but is grown as a foliage plant. It seems to be more tolerant to heat. It is cutting-grown and apparently perennial in frost-free locations. Looks nice for containers or hanging baskets. "Mezoo" is an odd name. Hardly looks like the same plant as the daisies above.

More information on Thornless Boysenberries and Thorns

Time to follow up on comments from previous threads.

Thornless Boysenberries

We have some fans of thornless boysenberry plants in The Horde. With good reason. Boysenberries are fabulous berries, and the thornless cultivar is the way to go if you can find it. Might be a little less productive than some, but were're mostly home gardeners, right?

I found a bunch o' short pieces on growing boysenberries, starting with pruning, which is a big deal unless you just plant to have a thicket. Remember that seedlings will probably have thorns.

Here is a recipe for a cake-like cobbler Not biscuit-y or pie-like. Written for blackberries, but perfect for boysenberries, which are related. It is pretty similar to the recipe Miss Hauser gave is in school, except that she heated the fruit with sugar. water and butter and spooned it over the cake batter. The fruit fell through the batter during baking. A memorable dessert warm with homemade vanilla ice cream. Just skip dinner.

She told us to remember that the recipe had no eggs, in case eggs were ever rationed again during wartime. The recipe at the link is also egg-gree. Wonder if the cornstarch is really necessary? Bet you could use other fruits, as with Miss Hauser's recipe.

Rose Thorns and related hazards

I think we linked this piece on first aid for rose thorn punctures recently (h/t Hank Curmudgeon), but this article on infections from rose thorns made an impression on Gordon:

Pay quote:

"The finger and the tissues surrounding the tendons up his arm had become infected. During the operation, the doctor had to cut from the tip of his index finger to the middle forearm. Antibiotics were administered to fight the infection and two additional operations were performed during the following week.

Lots of articles on this.

Check out the recommendations at the end of the piece, too. Some of them we have discussed in previous threads, and some we haven't. Heh.

Gordon also said:

You know, when I got cellulitis in my leg, I was working in one of my beds, kneeling, wearing shorts. My wife is convinced I got a little cut and the whole mess grew out of that. I was in the hospital for ten days! I lost count of all of the residents who came to my bed and got a really wide-eyed look, then a really puzzled look, then a "huh! look.

Gardening is hazardous. Courage is required.

I have a couple of ideas for preventing these kinds of infections from kneeling in the garden. Got any tips for Gordon?

I have a tip for avoiding other thorn injuries, and perhaps an uncontrolled house fire: Try to avoid this style of landscaping, another hazard highlighted by the ever-vigilant Hank Curmudgeon. Those cacti are so cute when they're little . . . .

Thorny Roses

There is one kind of rose grown specifically for its thorns, though it also has single white flowers. Particularly beautiful when back-lit.

The Danger Garden has growing and landscaping tips for the Wingthorn Rose. And photos. The plant is really striking among other plants. Keep this one cut back. Even if your gardent theme includes plants that could put your eye out.

Here's a piece about other kinds of roses with big thorns. Some of these are wonderful in the landscape. If you are brave.

Gardens of The Horde

We got a note and a photo from Gordon:

The first harvest is rhubarb. I used the jam maker. It is milder than I would like but it was young rhubarb.

Fantastic! We have more from Gordon for later. And maybe from his wife, too.

We also got an update from Blake, who lives in the Bakersfield, California area. We kind of agreed that Bakersfield averages about 10 degrees cooler than Phoenix in summer. Let us know if you have more exact figures.

Some interesting things about the Palo Verde Desert Museum:

The tree thrives in heat and drought. When I went to the nursery I asked if they had a tree that could take being planted in the middle of a bunch of concrete. The nursery recommended the Desert Museum and ours has really thrived, which I find amazing considering it's basically planted in the middle of a furnace during the summer. I water ours once a week but, they can go a month between waterings.

Also, the tree is deciduous, but, I think it also qualifies as evergreen.

Why?

Because the green bark contain chlorophyll and does the same job as the leaves. As a matter of fact, the green bark is part of the reason the tree is able to withstand summer temperatures in Arizona. (going from memory, the tree will drops its leaves when it gets to hot and survives as the bark takes over for the leaves.)

I got worried when our Desert Museum dropped all its leaves so late. It was already heading into spring and we suddenly had little spiky branches with no leaves. But, never fear, the tree put out a phenomenal amount of new growth.

It looks like our Desert Museum is going to bloom from one side to the other this year. Which means we won't get a tree full of yellow flowers but, it also means the tree will probably bloom much longer. Oh, and the flowers are every bit as delicate as they appear.

This particular specimen was planted a little over a year ago.

Blake has gone Full Horde for this photo, apparently preparing for a wonderful backyard meal. Perhaps featuring Hrothgar's Easy Baked Onion on page 188 of your copy of the Deplorable Gourmet. It's still baking season in Bakersfield. Barely.

And here's Blake's Desert Museum in full bloom a little later. You may recall that it is thought to be a cross-genera hybrid, so it doesn't make all those seed pods that are typical of Palo Verde trees.

Hope you have a great weekend. Take a little time to enjoy some plants if you can.

If you would like to send information and/or photos for the Saturday Gardening Thread, the address is:

ktinthegarden
at g mail dot com

Include your nic unless you just want to be a lurker.

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Whoa really?

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at May 19, 2018 12:54 PM (aljs9)

2 Surf, you magnificent bastard!

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at May 19, 2018 12:55 PM (aljs9)

3 BTW some people here think the whole "first" thing is juvenile.

Losers.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at May 19, 2018 12:56 PM (aljs9)

4 I read all the content, get to the bottom and there were no comments...coulda been first, damn!

Posted by: lin-duh at May 19, 2018 12:57 PM (kufk0)

5 So fbi inserted spy that helped create Russian story that got Dems and HRC to finance pee pee dossier

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 19, 2018 12:59 PM (0iZpe)

6 4
I read all the content, get to the bottom and there were no comments...coulda been first, damn!

Posted by: lin-duh at May 19, 2018 12:57 PM (kufk0)

That happened to me so we coulda been tie but some people dont read the comments caus they have to be first...ahem...surf. OK i just looked at the photos...ok on the way to be first. Still got screwed.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at May 19, 2018 01:00 PM (aljs9)

7 Since I am anonymous, would first matter? And to whom? Other anonymous parties? Yeah, I guess it would matter after all.

Posted by: ro-man at May 19, 2018 01:00 PM (RuIsu)

8 I've been wanting to plant Livingstone Daisies for a while, but I never have any room for them.

Posted by: Surfperch at May 19, 2018 01:07 PM (b1bLJ)

9 KT, this thread always has the prettiest pictures of any other threads, and as always this week's does not disappoint.

I love roses. And heaven knows I'm no gardener, but I think Nadine is right in that her rose is a knockout rose. Lots of people grow them around here, but I can't because I don't get enough sunlight.

And Blake! Love that photo of you with the cookbook! I'll have to tell Weasel to get his bad self over here and take a look!

Posted by: bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:08 PM (oMtOd)

10 Wow, that is a LOT of content. Thanks KT and all the contributors. Great reading!

Posted by: JTB at May 19, 2018 01:08 PM (V+03K)

11
What's with the georgia okeefe thrad?

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at May 19, 2018 01:08 PM (WtQOO)

12 I took cuttings from my inlaws hibiscus last weekend. I'm trying to get them to root. I did it about 4 years ago and it worked, I tried again last year and totally failed. The 4 cuttings I just took are still looking pretty good. These are a very cold tolerant variety with flowers the size of dinner plates. Once they get going they will spread like crazy every year. Super easy to keep.

Posted by: lin-duh at May 19, 2018 01:08 PM (kufk0)

13
oops
that was supposed to be in thrad below

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at May 19, 2018 01:09 PM (WtQOO)

14 bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:08 PM

I thought the Deplorable Photo was lots of fun.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:11 PM (BVQ+1)

15 And Gordon - ouch - hope your cellulitis is all gone. That must have been horrible.

I know this goes against the Horde's nature, but wear pants!!!! Long ones!

Weasel must be guppy-shopping with Mrs. Weasel.

Posted by: bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:11 PM (oMtOd)

16 Odd that no one has specifically come out and said whether or not this species is edible. Or tasty.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:55 PM

Rule of thumb; if nobody has come out and said whether or not a plant is edible, assume that anyone who has eaten it died as a result.

Posted by: Surfperch at May 19, 2018 01:12 PM (b1bLJ)

17 We're beginning to wonder if the sun will ever show itself. It sure has been a while. And good amounts of rain EVERY day. And we've been lucky. Folks not far off, like bluebell, have gotten more. The reports are making big talk about sun shine tomorrow. I'll wait and see.

Posted by: JTB at May 19, 2018 01:12 PM (V+03K)

18 lin-duh at May 19, 2018 01:08 PM

What techniques are you using to start them?

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:13 PM (BVQ+1)

19 I have a couple of ideas for preventing these kinds of infections from kneeling in the garden. Got any tips for Gordon?

I have an outdoor solar shower*. On the lower part is a spigot for filling buckets and a quick washing of hands and feet. Soap, scrub brushes, and other detergents and pads are nearby. Shower has a temperature control that actually provides some moderation of temperature, especially on sunny hot days.

I'm not a 'clean freak' or anything. But gardening and landscaping is a dirty germ-filled business. Best to get the stuff off as soon as possible. Any cuts require a quick application of a topical antibiotic.

* https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4PYB03/

Posted by: Forgot My Nic at May 19, 2018 01:13 PM (LOgQ4)

20 That cobbler recipe looks good, KT. And to answer your question about the cornstarch, it's in there to thicken the blackberry juices a bit. You could leave it out but then the cobbler would be runnier, but it would still taste fine.

Posted by: bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:14 PM (oMtOd)

21 My favorite thread, the sex thread!

Posted by: Harvey Weinstein at May 19, 2018 01:15 PM (b1bLJ)

22 Ugh, what an eyesore. Paint that sucker red.

Posted by: Queen of Hearts at May 19, 2018 01:16 PM (/qEW2)

23 I was surprised to learn that Moss Roses are different from portulaca because I grew up hearing the terms used interchangeably. I have always loved the colors of portulaca, even when I was a kid. That was before I realized how indestructible they are in our hot Texas summers.

Well, sort of indestructible. Where we live now, the number one consideration is deer predations and although I'd love to plant a lot of portulaca, I fear the deer would view succulents in the same way retiree at the early-bird special views a newly refreshed pizza buffet. Right now the deer are fawning and apparently having cravings. They are literally eating everything in our yard, including stuff they typically avoid. Jeez.

At least I can live vicariously through KT's gorgeous pics.

Posted by: Art Rondolet of Malmsey at May 19, 2018 01:17 PM (S+f+m)

24 Right now the deer are fawning and apparently having cravings. They are literally eating everything in our yard, including stuff they typically avoid. Jeez.

At least I can live vicariously through KT's gorgeous pics.
Posted by: Art Rondolet of Malmsey at May 19, 2018 01:17 PM (S+f+m)
----------

That's the problem we have here too, Art. Deer are cute but pestilent. And when they are hungry they will indeed eat anything. I got tired of providing them with buffet-filled planters. This year I put lavender plants in them. I'm hoping they won't eat those, because I had some lavender last in the ground for a few years (it died because I'm a lousy gardener, not because it got eaten).

Posted by: bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:20 PM (oMtOd)

25 I planted thornless blackberry bushes in our yard years ago. They produced like crazy, and I never got cut-up or clothing pulls and tears while harvesting.

We had some landscaping work done last week, so I had the landscapers bucket those thornless blackberry bushes and we gave them to a friend to replant near his raspberry bramble (both need acidic soil). Even though it is a tad late for transplanting I have high hopes they will thrive on his land.

I still have a ton of veggies and herbs left to plant but have a container project to do before I finish up, including putting together a new tower (it is for the herbs)!

So far I have 7 earth boxes planted, plus a ton of lettuce (if all that comes up, we will look like rabbits).

Posted by: Ann at May 19, 2018 01:21 PM (e59uY)

26 What techniques are you using to start them?
------
The very complicated cut them and stick them in water....

Posted by: lin-duh at May 19, 2018 01:21 PM (kufk0)

27 Art Rondolet of Malmsey at May 19, 2018 01:17 PM

You were right, Art. "Moss Rose" is a common name for ornamental Portulaca.

But there are Moss Roses that are actual Roses.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:24 PM (BVQ+1)

28 I thought I had a "cabbage rose" out in the side yard, but apparently I have a moss rose instead. It is one of the old fashioned pink ones, and very fragrant.

Here, my roses just started popping out, and the peonies as well. There was a late, wet spring.

I have 5 rows of corn planted, and I have interplanted some volunteer squash (maybe melons, can't tell) and shell beans in among them just to see if it does any good.

Bought my first peppers and tomatoes, and one eggplant.

I am waiting for my melon seeds to germinate in a dish covered in a wet paper towel so I can plant them too.

All in all a decent start, I just need to get the grass mowed and the borders tidy.

Posted by: Kindltot at May 19, 2018 01:24 PM (2K6fY)

29 JTB, the one good thing about all this rain is that everything is very green. And I don't have to water the hanging baskets on my front porch - I just take them down and set them on the walkway in front of my house periodically.

Posted by: bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:24 PM (oMtOd)

30 lin-duh at May 19, 2018 01:21 PM

Probably a good choice, since that species likes water.

How many roots do you like to see before you put them in the ground.? For those who have never done it before, do you make your cut below a bud or anything?

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:26 PM (BVQ+1)

31 bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:24 PM

Hanging baskets love rainwater.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:27 PM (BVQ+1)

32 Even with so little sun the salad greens and herbs are doing great. We may get our first salad in a few days.

The lilac and crepe myrtle both look good and the veggies are coming along. Figure the tomato plants will go in this week. In fact everything we've planted, including that tiny dogwood sapling, is growing and doing well.

Of course, the garden might be setting me up with false expectations. They are sneaky that way!

Posted by: JTB at May 19, 2018 01:28 PM (V+03K)

33 Ann at May 19, 2018 01:21 PM

What a lot of work you are doing.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:30 PM (BVQ+1)

34 I love roses. And heaven knows I'm no gardener, but I think Nadine is right in that her rose is a knockout rose. Lots of people grow them around here, but I can't because I don't get enough sunlight.

Posted by: bluebell at May 19, 2018 01:08 PM (oMtOd)

Yeah, looks like a knockout single, from her description, sounds like one, too.

Posted by: BignJames at May 19, 2018 01:30 PM (0+nbW)

35 Kindltot at May 19, 2018 01:24 PM

Sounds great. And there's no reason a Moss Rose can't also be a Cabbage Rose. The latter term has to do with the number of petals in the flower and its rounded form.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:33 PM (BVQ+1)

36 These friggin' rhubarb stalkers are as bad as those New England sappers. It's madness like crack cocaine.

Posted by: Fritz at May 19, 2018 01:33 PM (J7XgW)

37 JTB at May 19, 2018 01:28 PM

Hope things continue to go well.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:34 PM (BVQ+1)

38 lin-duh at May 19, 2018 01:21 PM

Probably a good choice, since that species likes water.

How many roots do you like to see before you put them in the ground.? For those who have never done it before, do you make your cut below a bud or anything?
-------
I always pick the lighter green new growth but before a bud has formed. I cut about 6-8 inches down right before a leaf. I'm just using instinct since I really have education about this stuff.

Posted by: lin-duh at May 19, 2018 01:36 PM (kufk0)

39 Of course, the garden might be setting me up with false expectations. They are sneaky that way!
Posted by: JTB

-- heh heh heh.

Posted by: The Bugs at May 19, 2018 01:36 PM (JXh4Y)

40 29 ... "JTB, the one good thing about all this rain is that everything is very green. And I don't have to water the hanging baskets on my front porch - I just take them down and set them on the walkway in front of my house periodically."

bluebell, Ain't that the truth. Our garden hose is feeling neglected and put out that everything looks so good without it.

Posted by: JTB at May 19, 2018 01:36 PM (V+03K)

41 ...since I have NO real education about this stuff.
I usually just wait for a few roots, nothing crazy.

Posted by: lin-duh at May 19, 2018 01:37 PM (kufk0)

42 Some of the locals are planting Kotata berries, they look like thornless Himalaya blackberries, but the local growers will correct you very quickly if you get that wrong.

They do taste like the himalayas too. They just aren't organic concertina wire entanglements.

Posted by: Kindltot at May 19, 2018 01:38 PM (2K6fY)

43
Our garden, apart from looking lovely, is doing what we want it to do. Bees are finding the lavender and jasmine, bluebirds are enjoying the mealyworms in the tray, hummingbirds sip at the feeders, butterflies are coming around, the roses bloom beautifully and Her Majesty is enjoying the cherry tomatoes and lettuce. A small garden, perhaps 400 square feet, but very functional.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2018 01:39 PM (Se1wd)

44 "I have a couple of ideas for preventing these kinds of infections from kneeling in the garden. Got any tips for Gordon?"

I read the original article linked, which referred to "wet poultry material" packed around the plants where one person picked up an infection. Maybe Step One is not to scatter animal crap all over the place.

Posted by: MW at May 19, 2018 01:42 PM (wNx6K)

45 Rose thorns etc.: Put the nozzle about one inch away from the wound and spray until it hits bottom.
It will clean and disinfect it at the same time.
Don't worry you will know when the spray hits bottom.

https://www.amazon.com/
Lanacane-Anti-Bacterial-First-Aid-Spray
/dp/B0000C860F

Years ago there were other brands but the fed kept regulating them away. I believe that one of the main reasons it is so affective is that it's pressurized - it blows disinfectant all the way to the bottom of the wound where a cream or a pour on doesn't travel. Secondly, the propellant butane, is also a disinfectant.

Posted by: gNewt at May 19, 2018 01:45 PM (zdltJ)

46
For all those who have had 600 straight days of rain, please send some to Brazoria County, Texas. We haven't seen any here in weeks and it's been in the 90s. No wonder the garden fountain is so popular with the local birds.

Her Majesty is away for the next two weeks and it's my responsibility to keep the garden watered. 177,000 square feet of property that only I take care of and another 400 that I have to help with.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2018 01:48 PM (Se1wd)

47 On an historical note, I just got a book "Home Life In Colonial Days" by Alice Morse Earle. It was published in the 1890s and the lady used living memory and personal journals for her information. There is one chapter about gardens, mostly flowers, what was planted and why. But throughout the book there are references to gardening/farming: growing and processing flax for linen and linseed oil, some vegetable and fruit gardening, even how important bayberry was in making candles.

I've just started it but it has been informative. She devotes most things to colonial New England as is only proper. (Says the guy who grew up in Rhode Island.) But there is mention of the south and mid-Atlantic.

Just FYI.

Posted by: JTB at May 19, 2018 01:49 PM (V+03K)

48 Lilac covered in blooms, caraganna covered in blooms. Seems that all the bushes had more than the normal blooms.

Posted by: Ronster at May 19, 2018 01:59 PM (m2Ggn)

49 Brazoria County, Texas"

Too bad we can't figure out that whole reservoir thingy, as we've had plenty of spring rains N of Houston...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at May 19, 2018 02:04 PM (7LY+6)

50 I learn so much here! I love looking at those portulaca varieties. I only have the old fashioned kind, but it reminds me of my grandmother's garden so it makes me happy. It's weird that the flowers melt when they get rained on. New ones open the next morning, tho.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at May 19, 2018 02:16 PM (GzDYP)

51 yeah my lilacs were awesome this year. they are supposed to re-bloom once or twice if I cut them back, and the recent little storm finished them off, so it is time for the hedge trimmer assault.

lots of grass taking over, but I did transplant about ten milkweeds out of the mowing zone, so have probably 20 of those back there, to keep the Monarchs content. The turnips in my waterway came back and gave a nice yellow display, with some hairy vetch in the mix for some purple flair. Hollyhocks are growing fast, as well other things.

We went from 10-15 below average temps in April to 10-15 above average for most of May. life is good ... love the roses, I keep killing mine, neglect probably. cheers

Posted by: illiniwek at May 19, 2018 02:20 PM (bT8Z4)

52 33 What a lot of work you are doing.
Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 01:30 PM (BVQ+1)

I scaled back this year a lot. I had the landscapers sod over my garden lot, and am transitioning to container gardens.

Hubby will be planting deer plots again (I wanted him to plant this month too, but he did get the tractor out, so no summer veggies up there :-( ) on his hunting land. Since it is all edible for humans (turnips, parsnips, edamame, etc) I will be happy to get those items too (and without any work on my part!)

That land also has pear and apple trees (anyone who says organic fruit is "better for you" must like the extra bug-protein), wild grapes, rose hips, etc., so I can get my "fix" if I miss the big garden too much.

Getting old kinda sucks.

Posted by: Ann at May 19, 2018 02:23 PM (e59uY)

53 I planted some taters. I probably should buy some sulfur for next year. Hopefully these will live anyway. We are dry so they have somewhat less risk of fungus. Cool and rainy today. Good for the plants but I'd prefer sun on my weekends.

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at May 19, 2018 02:25 PM (84F5k)

54 Rosebud...

Posted by: zombie charles foster kane at May 19, 2018 02:27 PM (Evws/)

55 Plant your tulips here.

Posted by: zombie charles foster kane at May 19, 2018 02:27 PM (Evws/)

56 I've fallen in love with dahlias.

Posted by: Kim Jong-fu at May 19, 2018 02:30 PM (artIV)

57 I love peonies but it's too hot and dry in Texas for them. I do have two good sized hydrangeas on one side of my house. They are in the shade pretty much all day. The soil is clay so base. I can't get blue flowers no matter how much acid I add to the soil. They are pink but still very pretty.

Posted by: lin-duh at May 19, 2018 02:34 PM (kufk0)

58 We don't do much with growing flowers but I can imagine some baskets for pansies and portulaca, maybe some more sweet alyssum.

I wonder if peonies can do well in a container. They are one of Mrs. JTB's favorites but I can't easily get down to the ground for now. (OK, it's the getting up again that is the challenge.) Worth checking into.

Posted by: JTB at May 19, 2018 02:53 PM (V+03K)

59 Thanks for the great thread as usual KT

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 19, 2018 02:54 PM (2DYau)

60 I need to dead head my roses.

My favorite roses are still my David Austin roses. They are so pretty and smell very nice.

My iceberg roses need to be dead headed too.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 19, 2018 02:57 PM (2DYau)

61 I tried growing roses, but they usually winter kill. I've tried the straw covering.

Posted by: Ronster at May 19, 2018 03:00 PM (m2Ggn)

62 Nude pets...

Posted by: Bacon Jeff at May 19, 2018 03:01 PM (3JQ/p)

63 JTB at May 19, 2018 02:53 PM

Maybe the portulaca could follow up when the pansies died in the summer.

Might check into the various types of peonies: herbaceous, intermediate and tree.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 03:05 PM (BVQ+1)

64 Ronster at May 19, 2018 03:00 PM

There are some extra-hardy types. Usually grown on their own roots. Sold by specialty mail order outfits.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 03:07 PM (BVQ+1)

65 I have a peony, I forget what kind it is. I got one flower this year.

I need to put ice on it in the winter. It was cold here in the winter but I don't know if it gets cold enough.

It's a tree peony or the intersectional one. I don't remember.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 19, 2018 03:09 PM (2DYau)

66 KT, Thanks for the suggestions. My knowledge of peonies is about nothing, just that my wife likes them. Even having a few would be nice for her.

Posted by: JTB at May 19, 2018 03:13 PM (V+03K)

67 That big marigold is an Inca Marigold. They come in yellow, pale orange, and dark orange. I used to plant entire flats of the dark orange ones, but I haven't seen them the past few years -- just the yellow and the light orange. Of course, I don't wander as far afield hunting for annuals any more, so it's entirely possible the dark orange ones are still very common, just not where I'm looking.

I cut back severely on my flowers this year -- three Black Knight butterfly bushes, two pots of marigolds, two Mexican heather, a lot of pansies, and several lantana. In the fall, I will pick up a few pots of blooming mums. It took me two weeks to get that meager amount planted because my back started aching so badly after just a few minutes. (Have I mentioned before that getting old is a bitch?) Last evening, my oldest son went home with a couple of shepherds crooks, a metal trellis, and lots of lots and players that have grown nothing but weeds the past couple years. My daughter-in-law is ecstatic. I'm just glad to get rid of them.

Posted by: Deplorable Lady with Only Two Deplorable Cats at May 19, 2018 03:14 PM (twkXM)

68 From Idaho's Treasure Valley: I have no idea how I managed to get through a full day of gardening last Saturday - I found out at the end of the day my fever was just over 100 F... I had to skip helping with our juniors smallbore class on Mon. night, and working the Ada County primary election on Tuesday. Fortunately my fever went away, then the gut issues, and now I nearly have my usual energy back.

Seeds that went in this week: green bush beans, sweet corn, butternut squash, cucumbers, cantaloupe.

Starts that got planted out: 1 cantaloupe, several poblano. (All indoor-started plants now either given away or planted.)

Still working on laying down mulch under the windbreak-row of lilacs. Husband still working on digging up the last corner of the corn bed. He's also been building drip lines as we plant in the corn bed. We're still topping up potato bags with soil, though some are close to full - the few potatoes in a raised bed are buried up to soil level now.

My job is to search front yard for large branches and pine cones before husband runs mowers. 130 pine cones this Wed. morning!

Even though my garden calendar says it's early for this, I put a pinch of 21-0-0 and some iron powder around my strawberries. (No idea why, but the strawberry leaves in one bed are always pale; iron powder seems to help.) We plan to put on the bird nets this afternoon, since there are a lot of flowers, and a number of berries starting. I do hope it will be easier to find the berries before they go moldy, since I seriously thinned out the plants last fall.

Not so pleasant surprise: dead white chicken spotted in the backyard early Tuesday morning. Posted on Nextdoor website before going back to bed (saw husband off to his election work, then remember I was still sick and needed my sleep). Found out neighbor 3 doors north of us lost all 5 of his chickens in one night.

Pleasant surprises: Spinach still producing well, and leaf lettuce harvest started this week. Alfalfa seeds in "Alfalfa Test Area" doing well so far. The "surprise yarrow" that popped up behind the alfalfa area has started flowering - hope it makes lots of seeds! Siberian Iris stunning, as they were last year; hundreds of flowers on the south side of the house alone. Wild roses in rear windbreak-row have started blooming. California Quail have been bold enough to come to the front porch several evenings this week!

Posted by: Pat* at May 19, 2018 03:36 PM (2pX/F)

69 I gave Mrs. E a Joseph's Coat rose for her birthday. She has not yet picked a place for it to be planted, so it bloomed on the deck. Just beautiful!

Posted by: Eromero at May 19, 2018 03:53 PM (zLDYs)

70 I love peonies but it's too hot and dry in Texas for them. I do have two good sized hydrangeas on one side of my house. They are in the shade pretty much all day. The soil is clay so base. I can't get blue flowers no matter how much acid I add to the soil. They are pink but still very pretty.

Posted by: lin-duh
------------

Althea's, you can find blue althea's. They can take the heat, the sun, and the cold.

Posted by: gNewt at May 19, 2018 04:10 PM (Bk0n1)

71 I just broke a 3 year old orange tree. I thought I had just enough room to drop a small oak and I missed my spot by about 20 inches and landed on the Satsuma. I was just going to cut it off and see if it had enough life to sprout all new branches from the stump but Mrs928 insisted on splinting it back to see if it will mend.

I don't have high hopes for that.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at May 19, 2018 04:43 PM (yQpMk)

72 Such a beautiful rose. We had a similar rose to this, yellow, from my grandfather's garden in Andover, Mass. Only bloomed for about a week in mid-spring, but filled the entire area with a sweet scent that modern gardeners probably have never encountered, with our over-bred roses.

Posted by: Caliban at May 19, 2018 04:54 PM (QE8X6)

73 Late to the thread. Thanks to KT for all the effort to pull it together!

Today was "Steel Challenge" day which took up my morning.

Bluebell, you're more than welcome. I was having fun and, if any leftists saw the picture and their heads exploded, bonus!

We have some miniature roses in the front yard. I cut them back this fall as they'd become somewhat unruly and unshapely. I must have done something right, because they've come back extremely well and they look as good as they ever have.

If anyone is interested, another low moisture plant is the crape myrtle. However, crape myrtles are high maintenance in that they require a fair amount of trimming. And, they need to be cut back a fair amount once they go dormant.

Pat; Thank you for your updates. I always look forward to them.

Posted by: Blake - used bridge salesman at May 19, 2018 05:12 PM (WEBkv)

74 I really didn't mention the other plants in Nadine's round planter, but I loved the combination of foliage textures and colors, as well as the flowers. The lantana and super bells would be striking just as a duo - similar colors, different flower forms.

And I am wishing her marigold a long life.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 05:23 PM (BVQ+1)

75 JTB at May 19, 2018 01:49 PM

It must have been a powerful lot of work to process flax for linen and bayberry for candles.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 05:24 PM (BVQ+1)

76 CaliGirl at May 19, 2018 03:09 PM

Herbaceous peonies need more winter chill than the others. Tree peonies need the least winter chill.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 05:26 PM (BVQ+1)

77
Speaking of roses...

Has anyone seen or heard from Carol lately?

Posted by: Spun and Murky at May 19, 2018 05:29 PM (4DCSq)

78 Ronster at May 19, 2018 01:59 PM

I didn't know what a caragana was. Had to look it up.

I know that lilacs are. Sounds wonderful.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 05:31 PM (BVQ+1)

79 Deplorable Lady with Only Two Deplorable Cats at May 19, 2018 03:14 PM

Hope your back starts to feel better. And I hope you enjoy your flowers.

Posted by: KTbarthedoor at May 19, 2018 05:41 PM (BVQ+1)

80 71 I just broke a 3 year old orange tree. I thought I had just enough room to drop a small oak and I missed my spot by about 20 inches and landed on the Satsuma. I was just going to cut it off and see if it had enough life to sprout all new branches from the stump but Mrs928 insisted on splinting it back to see if it will mend.

I don't have high hopes for that.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at May 19, 2018 04:43 PM (yQpMk)

-----------------

Duct tape for the win!

Posted by: Blake - used bridge salesman at May 19, 2018 06:56 PM (WEBkv)

81 Wife asked if I cut down here Easter Lilly's, of course I didn't, they are in a yard planter and I suspect it was deer.

Posted by: Skip at May 19, 2018 07:12 PM (aC6Sd)

82 Last week I rooted a couple of Christmas cactus fronds. I took them outside on the porch for a good misting, and left them out for the rest of the day before moving them back inside. A day or so later I noticed this:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y8flfmb7


Tiny, tiny. Airborne spoors, I imagine, since the potting soil is supposed to be sterilized.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 19, 2018 07:21 PM (nBBdT)

83 Wel I'm well behind on the veggie garden due to weather here in N IL and my lack of energy after getting home from work. Also as Ann said above, getting old sucks!

I've got onions, peas a,d one tomato planted. Planted some mesuclun but nothing came up, it's old seed or got disturbed. I don't know whether it's squirrels or our cat, but it's pissing me off!

I'll toss in the rest of the mesculun seed and some old lettuce seed and hope for the best. And put the cover on my Vegtrug, it's worth more than keep the cold
and bugs out.

Now to clean out the other raised bed and more tomatoes planted. Onward.

Posted by: Farmer at May 19, 2018 08:02 PM (yJ1e6)

84 Leg infection: Yes, long pants. They told me to start wearing compression socks after the hospital stay. There are cute designs for gals in these but for guys, they are just ugly black. I tossed all my shorts in the donate pile. Wife asked, you're never wearing shorts ever? I am not that guy in shorts and knee-high black socks.

Don't use animal poop: Guilty. I had a great source for horse barn sweeping. Stuff was gold! Nothing else needed. But Dow has a herbicide called Grazon. It gets sprayed on pastures and hay fields. It goes see straight through cows and horses, no harm. But it stays active in their poop. It makes your plant leaves curl up. It affects everything that is not a grass, and persists.

It got in one batch of horse sweepings, and poisoned one of my beds. Now I have to dig out that bed and replace the soil. Luckily it didn't affect any trees or bushes.

Posted by: Gordon Scott at May 19, 2018 09:51 PM (Lai71)

85 79 Ktbarthedoor -- ,Thanks, but the back has been acting up for a few years now. I suspect lugging around forty to fifty pound boxes of books for twenty five years as well as constantly bending from March until November to pull weeds and pinch off the tips of plants to encourage fullness has a lot to do with it.

For the most part, the flowers and plants I grow are geared to reach maximum nectar in late summer and early fall to give the Monarch butterflies and the hummingbirds food for their trek south. Last year, we were totally over run by Painted Lady butterflies, and the experts predict even more of them this fall. They particularly loved the flowers on my garlic chives.

I also have a stand of Russian sage in the city easement between the curb and the sidewalk. I started with just two plants, but after five years, they give every sign of happily taking over the entire space. And I strongly suspect that they will outlive the cockroaches come the end of the world. They start blooming in early June and go straight through until the second or third hard freeze in the fall. Every pollinators for twenty miles in any direction must visit them over the summer and fall. You could probably teach an entire semester of entomology by watching those Russian sages.

Posted by: Deplorable Lady with Only Two Deplorable Cats at May 19, 2018 10:34 PM (twkXM)

86 Ugh, Grazon. I've heard of that stuff. Backwoods Home Magazine did an article about it a few years back. SO hard to be sure you aren't getting any of it into your garden via manure. You need to go backwards from the manure supplier (animal owner), ask where they get EVERYTHING they've ever fed their animals, then go back to every feed/grass suppliers and ask for the name of EVERY chemical they've EVER used on their grasses and grains.

This is why we stick with buying compost and soil from one source, the Zamzows chain in the Boise area, because we've found that stuff has always been great for growing everything. And we've never bothered to investigate whether we could get manure of any sort.

Posted by: Pat* at May 20, 2018 12:33 AM (2pX/F)

87 Yah, you're right, Pat. You just can't trust it. David the Good warned us about it in Compost Everything, but I thought I had a good secret source. I am fortunate that it only got in one bed. And it could be only one horse clod, since any plant in that bed will send out roots throughout. The ones on the west end went bad first, then those on the east, so I think there was something bad on the west.

Dow suggests growing peas to test the soil, but how does one test a whole 50-lb bag?

Posted by: Gordon Scott at May 20, 2018 02:31 PM (f8nfN)

88 And the farmer who lives down the road from the horse riding school and who takes the schools' barn sweepings, spreads it on his pastures, just contaminated his field. So any animals that graze there now spread it....

I need to go over and haunt the UofM extension service. They need to do a multi-year study on the persistence. The states don't rate it as a bad chemical because it doesn't harm the grazers. But in a land where manure is important, there needs to be better information.

Posted by: Gordon Scott at May 20, 2018 02:36 PM (f8nfN)

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