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Is This Something?
12 Principles for a 21st century conservatism: from https://t.co/yWMm5dgHVz pic.twitter.com/0LQUMhg9ep
— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) April 25, 2018
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Hmm.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:32 PM (leCj4)
2
First!
Posted by: prof disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (feFsi)
3
nd
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (aFMSC)
4
Oh, surely. And firstish
Posted by: TCDD, pointin and laughin at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (YS180)
5
It is something
Posted by: Firmly Grasping the Obvious at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (XdD2Z)
6
Corgis called
Posted by: rickb223 at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (2ifxQ)
7
damn
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (aFMSC)
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (hMwEB)
9
Don't bother me, I'm thinking.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (leCj4)
10
Dammit. I wanted my Klingon Blood Wine.
Posted by: prof disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (feFsi)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (wYseH)
12
Ooops, I see a problem with #1.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (W+vEI)
13
I think I can agree with all of those.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:34 PM (gm9yG)
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:34 PM (Aamv2)
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at April 25, 2018 01:34 PM (3dsTO)
16
Retrograde,patriarchal,cisgender hate speech!
Posted by: steevy at April 25, 2018 01:34 PM (LiyEm)
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:34 PM (NgKpN)
18
#5 needs to be discussed in detail.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (2ifxQ)
19
#8 sounds like a wall in a field.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (aFMSC)
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (W+vEI)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (leCj4)
22
'These are 'Our' Dungarees now, Ace.'
Posted by: George Will at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (Aamv2)
23
But will Kanye retweet it?
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (7HtZB)
24
19 #8 sounds like a wall in a field.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (aFMSC)
Yeah, that was my first impression, too.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (aFMSC)
Yeah, that was my first impression, too.
Posted by: Hikaru at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (9TK8E)
25
Interesting - numbers 8 and 9 are simple restatements of the idea known as "Chesterton's Fence", which has long been standard conservative thought.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (k1TUh)
26
#8's a restatement of a principle with a fancy name that Ace has brought up before, wherein if you're changing something you'd better know why it is how it is first.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (gm9yG)
27
I don't know. In a completely non-ideological way this gives me the creeps. I'm dreading the "ergo, #13..."
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (fuK7c)
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (aFMSC)
Posted by: steevy at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (LiyEm)
30
A two hour video or did I click the wrong link? Twitter is confusin'.
A two hour video or did I click the wrong link? Twitter is confusin'.
Posted by: Forgot My Nic at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (LOgQ4)
31
I like the part about distilling.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (+y/Ru)
32
Sure, it's something.
My main quibbles would be with #7 and 11. For 7, not more noble. It may be a question of emphasis, but seems to me these things must be taught in conjunction with each other.
As for 11, acknowledge simply that intact 2-parent families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time, and since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling them they're doing it wrong.
My main quibbles would be with #7 and 11. For 7, not more noble. It may be a question of emphasis, but seems to me these things must be taught in conjunction with each other.
As for 11, acknowledge simply that intact 2-parent families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time, and since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
33
@25: Yes, that's what I was looking for, Chesterton's Fence.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (gm9yG)
34
Funny how I tacitly understood the majority of those principles upon HS graduation. It has only been in the last few years that insanity has decided they are either suggestions, or white privilege, and are pushing to dismantle them. The replacement? Chaos.
Posted by: prof disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (feFsi)
35
It is something
Posted by: Firmly Grasping the Obvious at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (XdD2Z)
H8 speech!
Posted by: Firmly Grasping the Obvious at April 25, 2018 01:33 PM (XdD2Z)
H8 speech!
Posted by: BignJames at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (0+nbW)
36
#12
"Unfair! Communism will work this time!"
-Very smart college student who dropped out of engineering and took up gender studies
"Unfair! Communism will work this time!"
-Very smart college student who dropped out of engineering and took up gender studies
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (aFMSC)
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (8iiMU)
38
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
* pauses and pants *
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
* pauses and pants *
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (pNxlR)
39
"...some sacrifice of individual impulse and idiosyncrasies."
Well, that's an epic understatement condensed into 7 seven words.
Well, that's an epic understatement condensed into 7 seven words.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (W+vEI)
40
Definitely something. Especially 12.
He's a great thinker imo.
He's a great thinker imo.
Posted by: LASue at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (Z48ZB)
41
What's Chesterton's fence?
Posted by: dantesed at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (88xKn)
42
T8ers gonna t8.
Posted by: Fritz at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (J7XgW)
43
Its an attempt to build a culture without any moral significance or underpinnings. Good luck with pure pragmatism
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (39g3+)
44
I don't see how this guy comes from Canada. Those people elected an imbecilic man-child who still plays dress up fer Christ's sake.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (o2MD2)
45
It's OK. Parts of it. Bothers me somehow that others are obvious but need saying as a proposal.
Posted by: Bigby's Typing Hands at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (qJon0)
46
41 What's Chesterton's fence?
Posted by: dantesed at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (88xKn)
=========
If you encounter a fence in a field, before you tear it down, ask why it's there and whether it's still necessary before doing anything.
Posted by: dantesed at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (88xKn)
=========
If you encounter a fence in a field, before you tear it down, ask why it's there and whether it's still necessary before doing anything.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (aFMSC)
47
As for 11, acknowledge simply that intact 2-parent families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time, and since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
"Helping them out" is part of the problem. It's resulted in a welfare state that encourages single-motherhood.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
"Helping them out" is part of the problem. It's resulted in a welfare state that encourages single-motherhood.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (Tnhbr)
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (KUaJL)
49
If it isn't it a thing it ought to be. An excellent distillation.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (RD7QR)
50
Hmm... on second thought, maybe 7 is my favorite.
Posted by: LASue at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (Z48ZB)
51
#8 Not to sure about this.
Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (0tfLf)
52
Sounds pretty good to me.
Incidentally, a Russian rocket is about to launch a satellite for the European Space Agency. I believe the launch time is 1:57 pm EDT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDoNmgj2XsY
Incidentally, a Russian rocket is about to launch a satellite for the European Space Agency. I believe the launch time is 1:57 pm EDT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDoNmgj2XsY
Posted by: rickl at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (xjiRE)
53
I think I prefer Make America Great Again.
Posted by: ShainS at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (SMj8m)
Posted by: Zombie G.K. Chesterton at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (p+Wdc)
55
As for Peterson, he probably doesn't need to write a book about it. He spills too many words, about things that aren't really his ideas, and about which he's probably not an expert.
And this #12 thing, there's nothing magical about that number, other than publishers probably like it.
And this #12 thing, there's nothing magical about that number, other than publishers probably like it.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (9chmE)
56
What's Chesterton's fence?
---
When you are considering a law or custom, explain why it was there in the first place, what purpose it serves, before seeking to change it. Consider the consequences of what will be lost in it's absence.
IOW, no "reform for the sake of reform."
---
When you are considering a law or custom, explain why it was there in the first place, what purpose it serves, before seeking to change it. Consider the consequences of what will be lost in it's absence.
IOW, no "reform for the sake of reform."
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (AzW6q)
57
top 69...
Posted by: Todler at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (8D42x)
58
My main quibbles would be with #7 and 11. For 7, not more noble. It may be a question of emphasis, but seems to me these things must be taught in conjunction with each other."
Disagree - the reason Responsibilities should be taught (and in successful societies, ARE taught) much more than rights is that they put the individual's focus on those around him, rather than on himself. Excessive Pride and Self-Worship are the two great evils that lead more than any other to a general downfall of societal norms, and which we are greatly afflicted with now.
Disagree - the reason Responsibilities should be taught (and in successful societies, ARE taught) much more than rights is that they put the individual's focus on those around him, rather than on himself. Excessive Pride and Self-Worship are the two great evils that lead more than any other to a general downfall of societal norms, and which we are greatly afflicted with now.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (k1TUh)
59
Isn't 5 basakwards?
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (ahV/f)
60
It's what keeps the Plain Bellied Sneetches and those freaks who butter the wrong side of their bread where they belong!
Posted by: Star Bellied Sneetch at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (Aamv2)
61
>> Interesting - numbers 8 and 9 are simple restatements of the idea known as "Chesterton's Fence", which has long been standard conservative thought.
And a 180 from what is being taught and promoted in our pop culture today. TFG - Mr. "We Are the Change" has made the idea of constant change as not just a positive thing, but necessary.
And a 180 from what is being taught and promoted in our pop culture today. TFG - Mr. "We Are the Change" has made the idea of constant change as not just a positive thing, but necessary.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (W+vEI)
62
Can we re-write this with AoS philosophy edits to suit our end-user needs and experiences and put it in the user manual? Then engrave it on every flat surface known to humanity, spam the entire net with it, and tattoo it on every progtard's back we can catch and release?
Can we re-write this with AoS philosophy edits to suit our end-user needs and experiences and put it in the user manual? Then engrave it on every flat surface known to humanity, spam the entire net with it, and tattoo it on every progtard's back we can catch and release?
Posted by: In Vino Veritits at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (UFLLM)
63
57 top 69...
Posted by: Todler at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (8D42x)
============
"We were just thinking of that..."
-Bill and Ted
Posted by: Todler at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (8D42x)
============
"We were just thinking of that..."
-Bill and Ted
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (aFMSC)
64
#4 is right. And sometimes it takes #2 to keep it right.
Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (0tfLf)
65
44 I don't see how this guy comes from Canada. Those people elected an imbecilic man-child who still plays dress up fer Christ's sake.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (o2MD2)
To be fair, so did we. Twice.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (o2MD2)
To be fair, so did we. Twice.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (RD7QR)
66
Re: #2. Now that ~50% of society is batshit insane/evil, who are the ones being idiosyncratic? Our side has sacrificed too much "syncrasy" already. If that's made us idiosyncratic so be it. We shouldn't sacrifice anything further.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (/qEW2)
67
I don't see how this guy comes from Canada. Those people elected an imbecilic man-child who still plays dress up fer Christ's sake.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (o2MD2)
So did the US in 2008.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (o2MD2)
So did the US in 2008.
Posted by: BignJames at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (0+nbW)
68
Also, to save leftists some time, #1 is colonialist, #2 is fascist, #3 is racist/sexist/homophobic, #4, #5, #6, and #7 are fascist, #8 and #9 are fuddy-duddy, #10 is fascist, #11 is homophobic and transphobic, and #12 is colonialist and racist.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (gm9yG)
69
#8 is just Chesterton's gate.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (ahV/f)
70
Yes, this is something: it's called normal, rational thought. And we hear less and less of it as time rolls on.
What we hear more and more of is insanity. Idiotic phrases like "Toxic masculinity," "All whites are racists," and "Oppressive patriarchy" are radical Marxism dressed up in Postmodernism and all designed to tear our society apart.
It's all bullshit, yet that's almost all we ever hear any more.
Bravo to Dr. Peterson for saying what needs to be said.
And heard.
Yes, this is something: it's called normal, rational thought. And we hear less and less of it as time rolls on.
What we hear more and more of is insanity. Idiotic phrases like "Toxic masculinity," "All whites are racists," and "Oppressive patriarchy" are radical Marxism dressed up in Postmodernism and all designed to tear our society apart.
It's all bullshit, yet that's almost all we ever hear any more.
Bravo to Dr. Peterson for saying what needs to be said.
And heard.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy likes lobster at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (GdWl+)
71
58 My main quibbles would be with #7 and 11. For 7, not more noble. It may be a question of emphasis, but seems to me these things must be taught in conjunction with each other."
Disagree - the reason Responsibilities should be taught (and in successful societies, ARE taught) much more than rights is that they put the individual's focus on those around him, rather than on himself. Excessive Pride and Self-Worship are the two great evils that lead more than any other to a general downfall of societal norms, and which we are greatly afflicted with now.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (k1TUh)
=============
I would like a explicit distinction in there about positive and negative rights.
Disagree - the reason Responsibilities should be taught (and in successful societies, ARE taught) much more than rights is that they put the individual's focus on those around him, rather than on himself. Excessive Pride and Self-Worship are the two great evils that lead more than any other to a general downfall of societal norms, and which we are greatly afflicted with now.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (k1TUh)
=============
I would like a explicit distinction in there about positive and negative rights.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (aFMSC)
72
The odd thing about Jack Kennedy is that he loved Chesterton's Fence, cutting taxes, and banging Marilyn Monroe.
The odd thing about Jack Kennedy is that he loved Chesterton's Fence, cutting taxes, and banging Marilyn Monroe.
Posted by: Forgot My Nic at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (LOgQ4)
73
since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling them they're doing it wrong.
+++
We have done. We've learned that they are doing it wrong. It needs saying.
+++
We have done. We've learned that they are doing it wrong. It needs saying.
Posted by: Bigby's Typing Hands at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (qJon0)
74
What's Chesterton's fence?
Its his principle that you should never remove a limitation until you can understand and argue why it should be retained.
Its his principle that you should never remove a limitation until you can understand and argue why it should be retained.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (39g3+)
75
To be fair, so did we. Twice.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (RD7QR)
Fucking ouch!!!
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (RD7QR)
Fucking ouch!!!
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (o2MD2)
76
#11 will make prog heads go Boom!, even though it is self-evidently so.
Posted by: Huck Follywood, I'm your Huckleberry! at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (rBnYq)
77
44 I don't see how this guy comes from Canada. Those people elected an imbecilic man-child who still plays dress up fer Christ's sake.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (o2MD2)
And we elected Obama... TWICE....
Just because the Electorate looses its mind periodically.... it does not follow that EVERYONE there is worthless.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (o2MD2)
And we elected Obama... TWICE....
Just because the Electorate looses its mind periodically.... it does not follow that EVERYONE there is worthless.
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (NgKpN)
78
Except not not fully understanding #5, I think the list is, indeed, something.
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (jjaLl)
79
39
"...some sacrifice of individual impulse and idiosyncrasies."
Well, that's an epic understatement condensed into 7 seven words.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (W+vEI)
I'm thinking this refers to impulses like goat-fvcking, and idiosyncrasies like blowing up people who practicce a different religion.
"...some sacrifice of individual impulse and idiosyncrasies."
Well, that's an epic understatement condensed into 7 seven words.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (W+vEI)
I'm thinking this refers to impulses like goat-fvcking, and idiosyncrasies like blowing up people who practicce a different religion.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (8iiMU)
80
41 What's Chesterton's fence?
Posted by: dantesed at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (88xKn)
Thought experiment by G. K. Chesterton.
If you're going down a country road and there is a fence blocking the road, what do you do? The progressive instinct is to try to tear down the fence because it is in their way. The conservative instinct is to try to figure out why the fence was built in the first place, because if someone put the time and effort into making it, they probably had a good reason for it, before making judgement about what to do with it.
Posted by: dantesed at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (88xKn)
Thought experiment by G. K. Chesterton.
If you're going down a country road and there is a fence blocking the road, what do you do? The progressive instinct is to try to tear down the fence because it is in their way. The conservative instinct is to try to figure out why the fence was built in the first place, because if someone put the time and effort into making it, they probably had a good reason for it, before making judgement about what to do with it.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (KUaJL)
81
I think #5 is trying to get at "socialism doesn't work" but does so obliquely.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (RD7QR)
82
As for 11, acknowledge simply that intact 2-parent
families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time, and
since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children,
how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling
them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
First response is from some twat who declares it all to be horrible, because there is "no record" of lesbian couples abusing their children. Someone needs to tell her about the van-load of kids deliberately driven off a cliff in California a few weeks ago.
families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time, and
since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children,
how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling
them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
First response is from some twat who declares it all to be horrible, because there is "no record" of lesbian couples abusing their children. Someone needs to tell her about the van-load of kids deliberately driven off a cliff in California a few weeks ago.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (WFV7d)
83
I love 12. That may be one of the best ideas in a long time.
Posted by: Katy Perry murders nuns at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (D/r2W)
84
Reasoned and hitherto uncontroversial ideas vs a trained monkey shouting "H8er!"
Tune in to see who wins the argument...
Tune in to see who wins the argument...
Posted by: xnycpeasant at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (FLifI)
85
I like tiny bubbles in the bath.
Posted by: Joe Biden at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (JHwDP)
86
Yes, that's what I was looking for, Chesterton's Fence.
Posted by: Ian S.
-------------
In Russia, fence finds you.
Posted by: Ian S.
-------------
In Russia, fence finds you.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (leCj4)
87
For #7 I think you have to consider what he means by rights. To the Left, they are all about "rights" that give them something - right to healthcare, food, birth control, a clean environment, etc.
To them, and in so much of or political discussions, rights are all about *what is owed to ME*.
To them, and in so much of or political discussions, rights are all about *what is owed to ME*.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (W+vEI)
88
Isn't 5 basakwards?
5 is basically communist. I'm aware that Peterson is in vogue these days, but this is all just sloppy sentimentality. There is no thinking on view.
5 is basically communist. I'm aware that Peterson is in vogue these days, but this is all just sloppy sentimentality. There is no thinking on view.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (fuK7c)
89
85 I like tiny bubbles in the bath.
Posted by: Joe Biden at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (JHwDP)
=============
*sighs deeply*
"Joe, stop putting them in your mouth."
Posted by: Joe Biden at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (JHwDP)
=============
*sighs deeply*
"Joe, stop putting them in your mouth."
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:42 PM (aFMSC)
90
What's Chesterton's fence?
Posted by: dantesed at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (88xKn)
He's the guy that gives Chesterton cash for all the swag he steals.
What's Chesterton's fence?
Posted by: dantesed at April 25, 2018 01:37 PM (88xKn)
He's the guy that gives Chesterton cash for all the swag he steals.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (WFV7d)
Posted by: Don Ho at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (leCj4)
92
As for 11, acknowledge simply that intact
2-parent families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time,
and since we have many many many non-two parent families raising
children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just
telling them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
"Helping them out" is part of the problem. It's resulted in a welfare state that encourages single-motherhood.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (Tnhbr)
It's always a question of how, not if. Obviously the Scrooge solution ("are there no orphanages, no workhouses?") is less than idea too.
So... I would be more on board with something that says we acknowledge that single parent households are less than ideal, and try to discourage more of that, somehow. Without leaving the ones that already exist high and dry.
2-parent families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time,
and since we have many many many non-two parent families raising
children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just
telling them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
"Helping them out" is part of the problem. It's resulted in a welfare state that encourages single-motherhood.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (Tnhbr)
It's always a question of how, not if. Obviously the Scrooge solution ("are there no orphanages, no workhouses?") is less than idea too.
So... I would be more on board with something that says we acknowledge that single parent households are less than ideal, and try to discourage more of that, somehow. Without leaving the ones that already exist high and dry.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (9chmE)
93
Doesn't say nothing about longbows or crossbows ...
Posted by: RoyalOil at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (4lmgE)
94
26 #8's a restatement of a principle with a fancy name that Ace has brought up before, wherein if you're changing something you'd better know why it is how it is first.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (gm9yG)
Chesterson's Fence.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:35 PM (gm9yG)
Chesterson's Fence.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (NWiLs)
95
As for 11, acknowledge simply that intact 2-parent
families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time, and
since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children,
how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling
them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
=============================
This is nuts. Where does 11 say "they're doing it wrong"? All it states is the ideal. It doesn't say the reality of all other relationships is wrong.
families are the ideal. Most of the time, but not all the time, and
since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children,
how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling
them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
=============================
This is nuts. Where does 11 say "they're doing it wrong"? All it states is the ideal. It doesn't say the reality of all other relationships is wrong.
Posted by: Huck Follywood, I'm your Huckleberry! at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (rBnYq)
96
Overall, I think the core is good. You could quibble with the phrasing and context of some of these assertions, but overall it is pretty good. Overall, I don't think it is a coincidence this guy's fame has skyrocketed in the age of Trump.
Posted by: TJ at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (E9BW0)
97
It's a little vague in places, which will lead to misinterpretation. But I like it.
#10 is the backbone of conservatism.
#10 is the backbone of conservatism.
Posted by: G. Gnome, BAHT at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (al6UK)
98
92
So... I would be more on board with something that says we acknowledge that single parent households are less than ideal, and try to discourage more of that, somehow. Without leaving the ones that already exist high and dry.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (9chmE)
You can't shame the shameless.
So... I would be more on board with something that says we acknowledge that single parent households are less than ideal, and try to discourage more of that, somehow. Without leaving the ones that already exist high and dry.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (9chmE)
You can't shame the shameless.
Posted by: Hikaru at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (9TK8E)
99
How you guys already commenting on a two hour long video?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (EyPfd)
100
It said nothing about fapping. WTF?
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (2LelM)
101
He's the guy that gives Chesterton cash for all the swag he steals.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
------------
This is what long cold winters cause.
;-)
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
------------
This is what long cold winters cause.
;-)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (leCj4)
102
It's a thing!
Posted by: USNtakim prfoundly deplorable! at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (0OmEj)
103
I teach my kids about "authentic freedom" where when YOU have fulfilled your responsibilities you are afforded more freedom, not license, freedom.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (ahV/f)
104
5 is basically communist. I'm aware that Peterson is in vogue these days, but this is all just sloppy sentimentality.
Its an attempt to create a society without morality and entirely based on pragmatism, on practical, scientifically testable, tangible reasons for everything. Which, of course, is not possible, because some things are only knowable through experience and cannot be defended rationally or practically.
Its an attempt to create a society without morality and entirely based on pragmatism, on practical, scientifically testable, tangible reasons for everything. Which, of course, is not possible, because some things are only knowable through experience and cannot be defended rationally or practically.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (8XRCm)
106
Before I judge these principles, I would like to hear them fully fleshed out, especially the "fundamental assumptions" in #1. The US is as polarized as it is right now precisely because the left's "principles that define western civilization" are opposed to the right's.
Posted by: jdgalt at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (3SFo/)
107
By "responsibilities" I'm sure JP is talking about the basic, immediate and traditional ones, e.g. to God, to oneself and to one's immediate family and friends, and not "social responsibility."
So yes, quite a bit more moral than teaching needs.
So yes, quite a bit more moral than teaching needs.
Posted by: xnycpeasant at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (FLifI)
108
It needs to be more proactive with networking creating synergy and a new paradigm of inclusion.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (+y/Ru)
109
I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
110
His core message is the freedom to speak your mind. Has there ever been a president more liberated in this respect than Trump, for good or bad?
Posted by: TJ at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (E9BW0)
111
Peterson's real talent is magically converting leftard brain matter into unstable fulminate of mercury. Then giving it a swift kick.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (o2MD2)
112
The list overall isn't bad, but its not enough in and of its self. Its a tool, one thing to help understand some principles but its lacking some important things like the inherent value of humanity, the objective, absolute nature of truth, justice, right, and beauty, and the concept that freedom is better than bondage.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (39g3+)
113
Willowed response to Christopher Taylor concerning Neanderthal reconstruction, slightly improved:
Well I think thy are trying to make them look period appropriate, but like when a reconstructionist put one in suit and tie with a modern haircut, he looked pretty normal.
Then again, there's a lot of art in reconstruction like that as well, its not remotely as accurate or precise as the CSI shows pretend.
Ah yeah, it is a guess. Of course, the notion that Neanderthals couldn't figure out how to trim their hair or tie it up out of the way to avoid burning it off while working over an open fire is kind of suspect, I think.
As for period correct, if you start looking closely at reconstructions you will notice that certain cultures are often portrayed with uncombed hair, dirty clothes, etc., because they are supposed to be "primitive," but other cultures are not. I first noticed it with Edwin Tunis' books on 1) the White frontiersmen and 2) American Indians: two books about two different cultures wearing similar clothing in the same environment, yet guess which culture had its members shown as young, fit, clean, normally proportioned, and with well-fitted clothes, and which one was drawn as dishevelled, wrinkled, unshaven, dirty, and with freakishly huge feet? Also all the women were smoking corn-cob pipes...
You will see the same thing with modern depictions of medieval peasants, vikings, etc, who apparently can't comb their hair or get it out of their face.
Well I think thy are trying to make them look period appropriate, but like when a reconstructionist put one in suit and tie with a modern haircut, he looked pretty normal.
Then again, there's a lot of art in reconstruction like that as well, its not remotely as accurate or precise as the CSI shows pretend.
Ah yeah, it is a guess. Of course, the notion that Neanderthals couldn't figure out how to trim their hair or tie it up out of the way to avoid burning it off while working over an open fire is kind of suspect, I think.
As for period correct, if you start looking closely at reconstructions you will notice that certain cultures are often portrayed with uncombed hair, dirty clothes, etc., because they are supposed to be "primitive," but other cultures are not. I first noticed it with Edwin Tunis' books on 1) the White frontiersmen and 2) American Indians: two books about two different cultures wearing similar clothing in the same environment, yet guess which culture had its members shown as young, fit, clean, normally proportioned, and with well-fitted clothes, and which one was drawn as dishevelled, wrinkled, unshaven, dirty, and with freakishly huge feet? Also all the women were smoking corn-cob pipes...
You will see the same thing with modern depictions of medieval peasants, vikings, etc, who apparently can't comb their hair or get it out of their face.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (bZ7mE)
114
How you guys already commenting on a two hour long video?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (EyPfd)
----
What video.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (EyPfd)
----
What video.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (8XRCm)
115
109 I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
==============
Washington and Madison were both childless.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
==============
Washington and Madison were both childless.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (aFMSC)
116
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
First
response is from some twat who declares it all to be horrible, because
there is "no record" of lesbian couples abusing their children. Someone
needs to tell her about the van-load of kids deliberately driven off a
cliff in California a few weeks ago.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (WFV7d)
Oh, that's lovely. I could tell them about lesbian couples and abuse... yes, it is real, and no, it's not spectacular.
First
response is from some twat who declares it all to be horrible, because
there is "no record" of lesbian couples abusing their children. Someone
needs to tell her about the van-load of kids deliberately driven off a
cliff in California a few weeks ago.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 25, 2018 01:41 PM (WFV7d)
Oh, that's lovely. I could tell them about lesbian couples and abuse... yes, it is real, and no, it's not spectacular.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (9chmE)
117
As a schoolboy I walked into school every day under our motto: Responsibility, Loyalty, Consideration.
I still think those are good principles to try living by.
I still think those are good principles to try living by.
Posted by: Huck Follywood, I'm your Huckleberry! at April 25, 2018 01:46 PM (rBnYq)
118
72
The odd thing about Jack Kennedy is that he loved Chesterton's Fence, cutting taxes, and banging Marilyn Monroe.
Posted by: Forgot My Nic at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (LOgQ4)
Yes. That is odd.
The odd thing about Jack Kennedy is that he loved Chesterton's Fence, cutting taxes, and banging Marilyn Monroe.
Posted by: Forgot My Nic at April 25, 2018 01:40 PM (LOgQ4)
Yes. That is odd.
Posted by: Shep! at April 25, 2018 01:46 PM (8iiMU)
119
I think people are misreading #5. Being a garbage truck driver or a plumber or a computer programmer are all socially useful things. He's just saying that capitalism is a better motivation than the alternative.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:46 PM (RD7QR)
120
Well I think thy are trying to make them look period appropriate, but like when a reconstructionist put one in suit and tie with a modern haircut, he looked pretty normal.
-------------
So easy, a caveman can do it.
-------------
So easy, a caveman can do it.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:47 PM (leCj4)
121
No
Posted by: RioBravo at April 25, 2018 01:47 PM (5NMZN)
122
"What video?"
What NOT video?
This is where Igot to when I clicked the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyw4rTywyY0
What NOT video?
This is where Igot to when I clicked the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyw4rTywyY0
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 25, 2018 01:47 PM (EyPfd)
123
>>I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us.
You have to be fucking kidding.
You know you can't accidentally not have children, right?
You have to be fucking kidding.
You know you can't accidentally not have children, right?
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:47 PM (Aamv2)
124
As for Peterson, he probably doesn't need to write a book about it. He spills too many words, about things that aren't really his ideas, and about which he's probably not an expert.
Well, he ran his own clinic for 20 years, so I'd suspect he's seen some things.
And he points out timeless truths from literature and art that have been around since the beginning of time.
I always take time to hear what he has to say. I find his observations fascinating and refreshing, especially these days when we're surrounded by seeming insanity.
As for Peterson, he probably doesn't need to write a book about it. He spills too many words, about things that aren't really his ideas, and about which he's probably not an expert.
Well, he ran his own clinic for 20 years, so I'd suspect he's seen some things.
And he points out timeless truths from literature and art that have been around since the beginning of time.
I always take time to hear what he has to say. I find his observations fascinating and refreshing, especially these days when we're surrounded by seeming insanity.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy likes lobster at April 25, 2018 01:47 PM (GdWl+)
125
Err, haven't we been talking about this for about 6 weeks?
Posted by: Sharkman at April 25, 2018 01:47 PM (Kge8X)
126
how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just
telling them they're doing it wrong.
Ignoring that they ARE less than ideal is a problem. It normalizes it. So acknowledging it is a poor CHOICE although sometimes unavoidable is important. Then help in a way that doesn't reward any action that creates the situation.
telling them they're doing it wrong.
Ignoring that they ARE less than ideal is a problem. It normalizes it. So acknowledging it is a poor CHOICE although sometimes unavoidable is important. Then help in a way that doesn't reward any action that creates the situation.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 01:47 PM (ahV/f)
127
Its an attempt to build a culture without any moral significance or underpinnings. Good luck with pure pragmatism
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (39g3+)
=======================
This is what I was thinking but didn't have the words for. Thank you.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (39g3+)
=======================
This is what I was thinking but didn't have the words for. Thank you.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (lwiT4)
128
Sounds more libertarian than traditional conservative. Broad "principles" like that are also subject to corruption. They are malleable and interpretive.
I prefer Constitutional based principles. Not some guys Jonestown Compact Version.
I prefer Constitutional based principles. Not some guys Jonestown Compact Version.
Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (VpIIl)
129
I would like a explicit distinction in there about positive and negative rights."
Good point - it has always irritated progressives that we have a Constitution of Negative Rights, things the government is NOT allowed to do, and which contains no "positive rights", things which the Government MUST do for you.
The problem with positive rights, that all progressives ignore, is that they only way to enact them is to give the Government the power to compel actions. Such as, if you have the Right to Health Care, then the Government must have the power to compel a Doctor or Nurse to give you that healthcare. Negative rights, by their very nature, take power away from Government.
Good point - it has always irritated progressives that we have a Constitution of Negative Rights, things the government is NOT allowed to do, and which contains no "positive rights", things which the Government MUST do for you.
The problem with positive rights, that all progressives ignore, is that they only way to enact them is to give the Government the power to compel actions. Such as, if you have the Right to Health Care, then the Government must have the power to compel a Doctor or Nurse to give you that healthcare. Negative rights, by their very nature, take power away from Government.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
Posted by: xnycpeasant at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (FLifI)
131
So... I would be more on board with something that says we acknowledge that single parent households are less than ideal, and try to discourage more of that, somehow. Without leaving the ones that already exist high and dry.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (9chmE)
You are reading your own bias into what he wrote...
He didn't say non two parent households were wrong...
He just said 2 Parent households are the bedrock of a stable polity... ie... they should be encouraged.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:43 PM (9chmE)
You are reading your own bias into what he wrote...
He didn't say non two parent households were wrong...
He just said 2 Parent households are the bedrock of a stable polity... ie... they should be encouraged.
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (NgKpN)
132
109 I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
Why not go straight to executing any adult who fails to produce their own biological offspring by age 35?
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
Why not go straight to executing any adult who fails to produce their own biological offspring by age 35?
Posted by: Hikaru at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (9TK8E)
133
119 I think people are misreading #5. Being a garbage truck driver or a plumber or a computer programmer are all socially useful things. He's just saying that capitalism is a better motivation than the alternative.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:46 PM (RD7QR)
Your interpretation is far more consistent with his expressed views than those saying it's Communism.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:46 PM (RD7QR)
Your interpretation is far more consistent with his expressed views than those saying it's Communism.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (NWiLs)
134
>>I'm thinking this refers to impulses like goat-fvcking, and idiosyncrasies like blowing up people who practicce a different religion.
Really? I think it refers to how our current culture is normalizing all sorts of deviancy, insisting that we must tolerate, approve, maybe even celebrate everyone's particular quirk or kink.
If you have a foot fetish, or get off on tentacle porn, are a nudist, whatever, keep it to yourself, don't insist this upon everyone around you, such as saying it must be taught to elementary school kids.
You keep peaceful social being by agreeing to certain standards/norms when with others. Not sure I've got it right...
Really? I think it refers to how our current culture is normalizing all sorts of deviancy, insisting that we must tolerate, approve, maybe even celebrate everyone's particular quirk or kink.
If you have a foot fetish, or get off on tentacle porn, are a nudist, whatever, keep it to yourself, don't insist this upon everyone around you, such as saying it must be taught to elementary school kids.
You keep peaceful social being by agreeing to certain standards/norms when with others. Not sure I've got it right...
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (W+vEI)
135
5 is basically communist. I'm aware that Peterson is in vogue these days, but this is all just sloppy sentimentality.
Yes, but this watered-down version is *far* more salable to the population at large than anything you or I or the Fox News talking heads have come up with. Once you get people to agree to this, you can gradually strengthen the medicine.
If we've learned anything from the left, it's that the slippery slope can be used to your advantage.
Yes, but this watered-down version is *far* more salable to the population at large than anything you or I or the Fox News talking heads have come up with. Once you get people to agree to this, you can gradually strengthen the medicine.
If we've learned anything from the left, it's that the slippery slope can be used to your advantage.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (gm9yG)
136
I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote.
I prefer people who own no (real) property, but either way that works for me. And I wouldn't be able to vote.
I prefer people who own no (real) property, but either way that works for me. And I wouldn't be able to vote.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:49 PM (39g3+)
137
12 good, 7 needs clarification. Are we talking bill of rights or SJW touchy feely rights??
Posted by: dananjcon at April 25, 2018 01:49 PM (xqfqx)
138
This list is something 'Captain Obvious ' would say
Its a shame America has unravelled so much that these are not obvious / agreeable to everyone anymore.
Its a shame America has unravelled so much that these are not obvious / agreeable to everyone anymore.
Posted by: McCool at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (sZaoP)
139
119
I think people are misreading #5. Being a garbage truck driver or a
plumber or a computer programmer are all socially useful things. He's
just saying that capitalism is a better motivation than the alternative.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:46 PM (RD7QR)
Yeah, #5 is basically saying 'no universal basic income'.
Or more broadly, welfare in such quantities that one does not have to work.
I think people are misreading #5. Being a garbage truck driver or a
plumber or a computer programmer are all socially useful things. He's
just saying that capitalism is a better motivation than the alternative.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 01:46 PM (RD7QR)
Yeah, #5 is basically saying 'no universal basic income'.
Or more broadly, welfare in such quantities that one does not have to work.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (8iiMU)
140
y'all notice Ace of Spades has been replaced again by Ace?
Posted by: DanMan at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (XTiHL)
Posted by: Roy at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (7n4KQ)
142
109 - The vast majority of our politicians have children. How's that worked out? The idea that parents have some special appreciation of the future is just an obtuse repackaging of the "children are our future."
Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (knDqF)
143
1. The fundamental assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
Growth and advancement are the best foundations of human society.
2. Peaceful social being is preferable to isolation and to war. In consequence, it justly and rightly demands some sacrifice of individual impulse and idiosyncrasy.
Meh.
3. Hierarchies of competence are desirable and should be promoted.
I would rather term this as the importance of private property rights (from which all individual liberty flows) and, thus, free market capitalism.
Of course, competence is something that any sane human would strive for and look for but I am not into telling anyone how to run their own businesses.
4. Borders are reasonable. Likewise, limits on immigration are reasonable. Furthermore, it should not be assumed that citizens of societies that have not evolved functional individual-rights predicated polities will hold values in keeping with such polities.
i.e. The concept of the sovereign nation-state is fundamental.
The second part just says that we should be wary of people from shitholes and commie rat-traps trying to come in. But that is part of the notion of the sovereign nation-state. We decide who we want to invite here and they can only stay so long as we want. We can eject aliens any time we want for any reason, or for no reason at all, other than, "we changed our mind".
5. People should be paid so that they are able and willing to perform socially useful and desirable duties.
Meh. This is subordinate to my above declaration of the ultimate importance of private property rights. I don't know about this "socially useful and desirable" stuff.
6. Citizens have the inalienable right to benefit from the result of their own honest labor.
Private property rights ... again.
7. It is more noble to teach young people about responsibilities than about rights.
Eh ... Responsibilities are really more of the parents' responsibility to teach their children.
8. It is better to do what everyone has always done, unless you have some extraordinarily valid reason to do otherwise.
I would rather phrase this as - "It is inherently bad to try to change some aspect of society just to tick off your dad or just to try and bring about the death of your society."
That pretty much covers the leftist motivations.
9. Radical change should be viewed with suspicion, particularly in a time of radical change.
Absolutely.
10. The government, local and distal, should leave people to their own devices as much as possible.
Hear, hear!
11. Intact heterosexual two-parent families constitute the necessary bedrock for a stable polity.
Hear, hear!
12. We should judge our political system in comparison to other actual political systems and not to hypothetical utopias.
Meh. We really shouldn't be judging ourselves compared to others. I, frankly, don't give a shit what others do to themselves. We should judge our own system with our own thinking.
The point of hypothetical utopias doesn't really get at the point. It isn't the claimed utopian leanings of the left that is the problem. Every pursuit must work either towards a solution to some problem or towards some sort of ideal. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem with the left is that their utopias are actually quite insane and silly - aside from the fact that what the left mostly wants is just the death of their own society.
The problem with utopias in policy is not in having them as some sort of goal or target but when we have politicians and judges using said utopias in order to make concrete laws and decisions that are clearly in opposition to reality or common sense - and worst of all, to do this very arbitrarily and capriciously.
These 12 steps are okay ... but they wouldn't be my foundations of conservativism. On top of that American conservativism is something very particular to America and must include discussions of the Constitution, which is the real basis of American conservativism and why American conservativism cannot even exist, really, anywhere else (since the rest of the world is still stuck with the awful, Eurotrash party-oriented, centrally empowered, totally dependent government branches, parliamentary systems).
Growth and advancement are the best foundations of human society.
2. Peaceful social being is preferable to isolation and to war. In consequence, it justly and rightly demands some sacrifice of individual impulse and idiosyncrasy.
Meh.
3. Hierarchies of competence are desirable and should be promoted.
I would rather term this as the importance of private property rights (from which all individual liberty flows) and, thus, free market capitalism.
Of course, competence is something that any sane human would strive for and look for but I am not into telling anyone how to run their own businesses.
4. Borders are reasonable. Likewise, limits on immigration are reasonable. Furthermore, it should not be assumed that citizens of societies that have not evolved functional individual-rights predicated polities will hold values in keeping with such polities.
i.e. The concept of the sovereign nation-state is fundamental.
The second part just says that we should be wary of people from shitholes and commie rat-traps trying to come in. But that is part of the notion of the sovereign nation-state. We decide who we want to invite here and they can only stay so long as we want. We can eject aliens any time we want for any reason, or for no reason at all, other than, "we changed our mind".
5. People should be paid so that they are able and willing to perform socially useful and desirable duties.
Meh. This is subordinate to my above declaration of the ultimate importance of private property rights. I don't know about this "socially useful and desirable" stuff.
6. Citizens have the inalienable right to benefit from the result of their own honest labor.
Private property rights ... again.
7. It is more noble to teach young people about responsibilities than about rights.
Eh ... Responsibilities are really more of the parents' responsibility to teach their children.
8. It is better to do what everyone has always done, unless you have some extraordinarily valid reason to do otherwise.
I would rather phrase this as - "It is inherently bad to try to change some aspect of society just to tick off your dad or just to try and bring about the death of your society."
That pretty much covers the leftist motivations.
9. Radical change should be viewed with suspicion, particularly in a time of radical change.
Absolutely.
10. The government, local and distal, should leave people to their own devices as much as possible.
Hear, hear!
11. Intact heterosexual two-parent families constitute the necessary bedrock for a stable polity.
Hear, hear!
12. We should judge our political system in comparison to other actual political systems and not to hypothetical utopias.
Meh. We really shouldn't be judging ourselves compared to others. I, frankly, don't give a shit what others do to themselves. We should judge our own system with our own thinking.
The point of hypothetical utopias doesn't really get at the point. It isn't the claimed utopian leanings of the left that is the problem. Every pursuit must work either towards a solution to some problem or towards some sort of ideal. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem with the left is that their utopias are actually quite insane and silly - aside from the fact that what the left mostly wants is just the death of their own society.
The problem with utopias in policy is not in having them as some sort of goal or target but when we have politicians and judges using said utopias in order to make concrete laws and decisions that are clearly in opposition to reality or common sense - and worst of all, to do this very arbitrarily and capriciously.
These 12 steps are okay ... but they wouldn't be my foundations of conservativism. On top of that American conservativism is something very particular to America and must include discussions of the Constitution, which is the real basis of American conservativism and why American conservativism cannot even exist, really, anywhere else (since the rest of the world is still stuck with the awful, Eurotrash party-oriented, centrally empowered, totally dependent government branches, parliamentary systems).
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (8gDQu)
144
This is where Igot to when I clicked the link.
-----
What link.
Oh.
Wait.
You must be one of them there "content readers".
This is where Igot to when I clicked the link.
-----
What link.
Oh.
Wait.
You must be one of them there "content readers".
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (8XRCm)
145
Reading the responses is conservatism in a nutshell. We're individualists, so much so that we can't agree to a basic set of defining principles. Meanwhile, the Left is is lockstep unison, with no deviation allowed. It's a blessing and a curse.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM (7HtZB)
146
I think some misread Peterson's short aphorisms as being shallow. He's published more substantial stuff (e.g. Maps of Meaning) but is not afraid to distill and popularize his more academic stuff for a mass audience.
Posted by: xnycpeasant at April 25, 2018 01:51 PM (FLifI)
147
Cereal Box "Principles".
Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2018 01:51 PM (VpIIl)
148
Its an attempt to build a culture without any moral significance or underpinnings. Good luck with pure pragmatism
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (39g3+)
You missed #1?
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:38 PM (39g3+)
You missed #1?
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 01:51 PM (953wK)
149
I mean I get the idea of "If you don't have children, you don't care about who Keynesianism fucks over", but there are plenty of people who DO have kids that don't care who Keynesianism fucks over, either.
Posted by: Hikaru at April 25, 2018 01:51 PM (9TK8E)
150
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
Founders understood that if you started to profess Positive Rights...
Then the Rights were FROM the Government... and not Natural Rights.
And that opens up the door to insanity...
Like, the 'RIGHT' to vote is not a Natural Right... its a privilege based on our form of Government...
But when elevated to the same status as a Natural Right... it opened the door for a LOT of stupidity.
Founders understood that if you started to profess Positive Rights...
Then the Rights were FROM the Government... and not Natural Rights.
And that opens up the door to insanity...
Like, the 'RIGHT' to vote is not a Natural Right... its a privilege based on our form of Government...
But when elevated to the same status as a Natural Right... it opened the door for a LOT of stupidity.
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:51 PM (NgKpN)
151
This is what I was thinking but didn't have the words for.
It explains Peterson's popularity. He's taking old wisdom and traditional truths and breaking them down into psychological and scientific-sounding answers. Don't sleep around before you're marriage is very sound advice morally and based on long tradition, but he's trying to explain how its bad scientifically and sociologically using terms the "I f'in love science" generation eats up.
This is a culture which rejects revealed knowledge and wisdom, insisting on a laboratory-tested answer. For this society, you cannot simply trust the wisdom of elders and experience, you have to have a scientific-sounding answer or its just wrong.
It explains Peterson's popularity. He's taking old wisdom and traditional truths and breaking them down into psychological and scientific-sounding answers. Don't sleep around before you're marriage is very sound advice morally and based on long tradition, but he's trying to explain how its bad scientifically and sociologically using terms the "I f'in love science" generation eats up.
This is a culture which rejects revealed knowledge and wisdom, insisting on a laboratory-tested answer. For this society, you cannot simply trust the wisdom of elders and experience, you have to have a scientific-sounding answer or its just wrong.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:51 PM (39g3+)
152
I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
No, it wouldn't. Having children isn't a guarantee that you'll make the correct decisions in office, or that you'll care about the future of the country.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
No, it wouldn't. Having children isn't a guarantee that you'll make the correct decisions in office, or that you'll care about the future of the country.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at April 25, 2018 01:51 PM (Tnhbr)
153
>>Its a shame America has unravelled so much that these are not obvious / agreeable to everyone anymore.
It has always been this way. At least belief-wise.
The Revolution was fought by a fraction of the population. Many had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to Liberty.
It has always been this way. At least belief-wise.
The Revolution was fought by a fraction of the population. Many had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to Liberty.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (Aamv2)
154
#13: If you meet assholes all day YOU'RE the asshole.
Posted by: xnycpeasant at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (FLifI)
155
Whether a person is or is not childless has no bearing on full participation as a citizen.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (lwiT4)
156
>The problem with positive rights, that all progressives ignore, is that they only way to enact them is to give the Government the power to compel actions. Such as, if you have the Right to Health Care, then the Government must have the power to compel a Doctor or Nurse to give you that healthcare.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
I think it's worse than that. The government would have compel someone to become a doctor or nurse before the doctor or nurse could be compelled to treat you.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
I think it's worse than that. The government would have compel someone to become a doctor or nurse before the doctor or nurse could be compelled to treat you.
Posted by: all doubt removed at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (xj0OI)
157
142 109 - The vast majority of our politicians have children. How's that worked out? The idea that parents have some special appreciation of the future is just an obtuse repackaging of the "children are our future."
----------------------
What percentage of the profligate pols depend on the youth, gay, and Feminazi vote for their victory?
If you don't have skin in the game of the future, you should not be making any rules for others. The Future Belongs To Breeders!
----------------------
What percentage of the profligate pols depend on the youth, gay, and Feminazi vote for their victory?
If you don't have skin in the game of the future, you should not be making any rules for others. The Future Belongs To Breeders!
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (2LelM)
158
I don't know about this "socially useful and desirable" stuff.
It just means "don't pay people for not doing work": no universal income, no no-strings welfare, etc, etc.
It just means "don't pay people for not doing work": no universal income, no no-strings welfare, etc, etc.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (gm9yG)
159
I prefer Constitutional based principles. Not some guys Jonestown Compact Version. "
The Constitution is comprised of Rules of Organization - the Declaration of Independence is much more a statement of Principles. And both are founded on principles much like these, which our founders held.
We used to be able to count on a common culture and well grounded education to be able to instill principles such as these in the population - no longer. We literally now have an almost completely unprincipled population, in that they are not even aware of the basic principles which lead to the living of an orderly and successful life. A public statement of principles such as this is extremely necessary at this time, and a very good thing to promote.
The Constitution is comprised of Rules of Organization - the Declaration of Independence is much more a statement of Principles. And both are founded on principles much like these, which our founders held.
We used to be able to count on a common culture and well grounded education to be able to instill principles such as these in the population - no longer. We literally now have an almost completely unprincipled population, in that they are not even aware of the basic principles which lead to the living of an orderly and successful life. A public statement of principles such as this is extremely necessary at this time, and a very good thing to promote.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (k1TUh)
160
This should be #13:
Jeffrey Toobin
@JeffreyToobin
.@JoyAnnReid is an important and valuable voice, and I support her.
Jeffrey Toobin
@JeffreyToobin
.@JoyAnnReid is an important and valuable voice, and I support her.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (+y/Ru)
Posted by: dananjcon at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (xqfqx)
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (Aamv2)
163
Dream Team Presidential ticket:
Mike Rowe and Jordan Peterson.
Sheriff Clarke and anyone...
Posted by: xnycpeasant
-----------
In spite of the jibes that he takes, I suspect that Gowdy, given the reins, would make a good AG.
Mike Rowe and Jordan Peterson.
Sheriff Clarke and anyone...
Posted by: xnycpeasant
-----------
In spite of the jibes that he takes, I suspect that Gowdy, given the reins, would make a good AG.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (leCj4)
164
128 Sounds more libertarian than traditional conservative. Broad "principles" like that are also subject to corruption. They are malleable and interpretive.
I prefer Constitutional based principles. Not some guys Jonestown Compact Version.
Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (VpIIl)
==========
Except the bit about borders being meaningful.
Way too many in libertarian thought find them meaningless.
I prefer Constitutional based principles. Not some guys Jonestown Compact Version.
Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (VpIIl)
==========
Except the bit about borders being meaningful.
Way too many in libertarian thought find them meaningless.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (aFMSC)
Posted by: mustbequantum at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (MIKMs)
166
155 Whether a person is or is not childless has no bearing on full participation as a citizen.
----------------------
Grammie - did you try nutrageous yet?
155 Whether a person is or is not childless has no bearing on full participation as a citizen.
----------------------
Grammie - did you try nutrageous yet?
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (2LelM)
167
If having kids makes you more fit for office, the government should be run by welfare queens with 5 kids by 5 different men.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (o2MD2)
168
32 ..... For 7, not more noble. It may be a question of emphasis, but seems to me these things must be taught in conjunction with each other....
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
-----------------------------------
Agree, BUT.....
1) In America today, when responsibilities have been virtually ignored, if not despised, a corrective emphasis on them would be a good thing.
2) He is talking about the education of youth. Anyone who has had kids knows that it is easy to teach kids to value their own "rights," real or imagined. It's teaching them their duties that is tough.
So education should naturally spend more time on that.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
-----------------------------------
Agree, BUT.....
1) In America today, when responsibilities have been virtually ignored, if not despised, a corrective emphasis on them would be a good thing.
2) He is talking about the education of youth. Anyone who has had kids knows that it is easy to teach kids to value their own "rights," real or imagined. It's teaching them their duties that is tough.
So education should naturally spend more time on that.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (0jtPF)
169
The government would have compel someone to become a doctor or nurse before the doctor or nurse could be compelled to treat you.
And hence the UK, where NHS is bringing in boatloads of Muslim doctors and then trying to figure out why all the female patients are raped.
And hence the UK, where NHS is bringing in boatloads of Muslim doctors and then trying to figure out why all the female patients are raped.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (gm9yG)
170
Seems a little light on desirability of individual right of self-defense and jealous protection for the right of free expression.
But otherwise, nothing too objectionable stands out.
But otherwise, nothing too objectionable stands out.
Posted by: flounderbot, rebel, vulgarian, deplorabot, winner at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (Dp6qK)
171
129 I would like a explicit distinction in there about positive and negative rights."
Good point - it has always irritated progressives that we have a Constitution of Negative Rights, things the government is NOT allowed to do, and which contains no "positive rights", things which the Government MUST do for you.
The problem with positive rights, that all progressives ignore, is that they only way to enact them is to give the Government the power to compel actions. Such as, if you have the Right to Health Care, then the Government must have the power to compel a Doctor or Nurse to give you that healthcare. Negative rights, by their very nature, take power away from Government.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
============
There area a couple of positive rights.
The right to a trial by jury is positive.
But that's a positive right designed to slow the machinery of state, not a positive right to give you other people's stuff.
Good point - it has always irritated progressives that we have a Constitution of Negative Rights, things the government is NOT allowed to do, and which contains no "positive rights", things which the Government MUST do for you.
The problem with positive rights, that all progressives ignore, is that they only way to enact them is to give the Government the power to compel actions. Such as, if you have the Right to Health Care, then the Government must have the power to compel a Doctor or Nurse to give you that healthcare. Negative rights, by their very nature, take power away from Government.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
============
There area a couple of positive rights.
The right to a trial by jury is positive.
But that's a positive right designed to slow the machinery of state, not a positive right to give you other people's stuff.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (aFMSC)
172
Negative rights, by their very nature, take power away from Government.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
Levin talked about positive and negative liberty in his opening monologue yesterday. He referenced some philosopher named Berlin.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
Levin talked about positive and negative liberty in his opening monologue yesterday. He referenced some philosopher named Berlin.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (8iiMU)
173
158 I don't know about this "socially useful and desirable" stuff.
It just means "don't pay people for not doing work": no universal income, no no-strings welfare, etc, etc."
Yes - it means that we should NOT be paying people to write dissertations on "The Transnational Effects of Star Wars on LGBT Musical Preferences".
It just means "don't pay people for not doing work": no universal income, no no-strings welfare, etc, etc."
Yes - it means that we should NOT be paying people to write dissertations on "The Transnational Effects of Star Wars on LGBT Musical Preferences".
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (k1TUh)
174
This is what I was thinking but didn't have the words for. Thank you.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (lwiT4)
IDK, the moral construct is usually the most pragmatic long term. There is very little in the judeo-christian moral imperative system that isn't obviously very pragmatic. What sin, for example only exists in itself outside of real world considerations and potential consequences. Morality from a judeo/christian moral authority is pretty much a user's manual from the creator. Do this, not that and you'll be better now and for eternity.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (lwiT4)
IDK, the moral construct is usually the most pragmatic long term. There is very little in the judeo-christian moral imperative system that isn't obviously very pragmatic. What sin, for example only exists in itself outside of real world considerations and potential consequences. Morality from a judeo/christian moral authority is pretty much a user's manual from the creator. Do this, not that and you'll be better now and for eternity.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (ahV/f)
175
135 5 is basically communist. I'm aware that Peterson is in vogue these days, but this is all just sloppy sentimentality.
Yes, but this watered-down version is *far* more salable to the population at large than anything you or I or the Fox News talking heads have come up with. Once you get people to agree to this, you can gradually strengthen the medicine.
If we've learned anything from the left, it's that the slippery slope can be used to your advantage.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (gm9yG)
More.... as much as I HATE this phrase...
Its opening a conversation...
Yes, but this watered-down version is *far* more salable to the population at large than anything you or I or the Fox News talking heads have come up with. Once you get people to agree to this, you can gradually strengthen the medicine.
If we've learned anything from the left, it's that the slippery slope can be used to your advantage.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (gm9yG)
More.... as much as I HATE this phrase...
Its opening a conversation...
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (NgKpN)
176
Dream Team Presidential ticket:
Mike Rowe and Jordan Peterson.
Sheriff Clarke and anyone...
Posted by: xnycpeasant
James Woods, WH Press Sec.
Mike Rowe and Jordan Peterson.
Sheriff Clarke and anyone...
Posted by: xnycpeasant
James Woods, WH Press Sec.
Posted by: flounderbot, rebel, vulgarian, deplorabot, winner at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (Dp6qK)
177
Its an attempt to build a culture without any moral significance or underpinnings. Good luck with pure pragmatism.
Yep.
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
--John Adams
"In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity."
--John Q Adams
"The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
--Congress, 1854
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see."
--Benjamin Franklin
"The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses."
--Thomas Jefferson
Yep.
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
--John Adams
"In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity."
--John Q Adams
"The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
--Congress, 1854
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see."
--Benjamin Franklin
"The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses."
--Thomas Jefferson
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (iv0p7)
178
>>NHS is bringing in boatloads of Muslim doctors and then trying to figure out why all the female patients are raped.
You are going to feel a little prick...
You are going to feel a little prick...
Posted by: Dr. Mohammed mohammed Mohammed at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (Aamv2)
179
You know who has children?
David Hogg's parents.
Posted by: garrett
----------
There will always be outliers, viz Lena Dunham, et al.
David Hogg's parents.
Posted by: garrett
----------
There will always be outliers, viz Lena Dunham, et al.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (leCj4)
180
In spite of the jibes that he takes, I suspect that Gowdy, given the reins, would make a good AG.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (leCj4)
------
Ixnay on the uturefay.
In spite of the jibes that he takes, I suspect that Gowdy, given the reins, would make a good AG.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (leCj4)
------
Ixnay on the uturefay.
Posted by: The Golden Scalp Weasel at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (8XRCm)
181
Grammie - did you try nutrageous yet?
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (2LelM)
=================
*clunk* *thud* Going to Walmart this afternoon. I should pin a note on my hand.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (2LelM)
=================
*clunk* *thud* Going to Walmart this afternoon. I should pin a note on my hand.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (lwiT4)
182
165 Washington and Madison were both childless.
=====
Both had stepchildren.
Posted by: mustbequantum at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (MIKMs)
I believe Jefferson was also childless. (with his wife at any rate. Not opening up that whole thing.)
=====
Both had stepchildren.
Posted by: mustbequantum at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (MIKMs)
I believe Jefferson was also childless. (with his wife at any rate. Not opening up that whole thing.)
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (7HtZB)
183
157 - You should just stop pretending to be a conservative.
Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (knDqF)
184
>>Whether a person is or is not childless has no bearing on full participation as a citizen.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (lwiT4)
This. Agree 100%. I'm not sure where this idea originated, but I keep seeing it more and more here.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 01:52 PM (lwiT4)
This. Agree 100%. I'm not sure where this idea originated, but I keep seeing it more and more here.
Posted by: G. Gnome, childless spinster at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (al6UK)
185
Good point - it has always irritated progressives that we have a Constitution of Negative Rights, things the government is NOT allowed to do, and which contains no "positive rights", things which the Government MUST do for you.
The right to a jury trial and other specifications regarding criminal charge and trial are certainly positive rights that the Constitution spells out.
The right to a jury trial and other specifications regarding criminal charge and trial are certainly positive rights that the Constitution spells out.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (8gDQu)
186
You will see the same thing with modern depictions of medieval peasants, vikings, etc, who apparently can't comb their hair or get it out of their face.
Yeah well there's a certain level of modernist chauvanism in most history done these days. Its either like TV shows where they're modern supermodels playing medieval kings or they all look like a bum on a 17-day MD 20-20 bender.
For most modern people, anything older than 20 years is ancient and awful, and the older it gets the worse. They cannot conceive of people being just people in the past, they have to be their worst possible stereotype. That people fought against slavery ALWAYS and that women ALWAYS have been in the public eye and positions of power is inconceivable to them.
Its the difference between someone who has actually studied and knows the information FROM the time period and the people who only know what they've been told and assume about it.
Yeah well there's a certain level of modernist chauvanism in most history done these days. Its either like TV shows where they're modern supermodels playing medieval kings or they all look like a bum on a 17-day MD 20-20 bender.
For most modern people, anything older than 20 years is ancient and awful, and the older it gets the worse. They cannot conceive of people being just people in the past, they have to be their worst possible stereotype. That people fought against slavery ALWAYS and that women ALWAYS have been in the public eye and positions of power is inconceivable to them.
Its the difference between someone who has actually studied and knows the information FROM the time period and the people who only know what they've been told and assume about it.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (39g3+)
187
Actually, I changed my mind. We shouldn't be quibbling over the details. Vague here is good.
When the left talks about feminism, they don't lead with "the patriarchy is a construct by which all men oppress all women" (and all their other batshit crazy stuff). They start with something much more benign. "Don't you think that men and women should be treated fairly?" It's much harder to argue against the vague platitude than it is against the actual doctrine. But the platitude gets people to instinctively agree with your position by default.
The goal here isn't to start from the ground up with bedrock principles. The goal here is to frame your position as the default, sensible position for people (as the left has gotten very good at doing). And once you've gotten people on board in general, then we can seat out the details.
When the left talks about feminism, they don't lead with "the patriarchy is a construct by which all men oppress all women" (and all their other batshit crazy stuff). They start with something much more benign. "Don't you think that men and women should be treated fairly?" It's much harder to argue against the vague platitude than it is against the actual doctrine. But the platitude gets people to instinctively agree with your position by default.
The goal here isn't to start from the ground up with bedrock principles. The goal here is to frame your position as the default, sensible position for people (as the left has gotten very good at doing). And once you've gotten people on board in general, then we can seat out the details.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at April 25, 2018 01:56 PM (KUaJL)
188
You are going to feel a little prick...
Posted by: Dr. Mohammed mohammed Mohammed at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (Aamv2)
------
Only if I can use my hands there tiny.
You are going to feel a little prick...
Posted by: Dr. Mohammed mohammed Mohammed at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (Aamv2)
------
Only if I can use my hands there tiny.
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at April 25, 2018 01:56 PM (8XRCm)
189
>>Founders understood that if you started to profess Positive Rights...
Then the Rights were FROM the Government... and not Natural Rights.
And that opens up the door to insanity...
- - - -
Also, obligates someone else (not God) to provide something tangible. The "right to healthcare" obligates someone to fund it, people to provide that service, medical supplies, etc..
The rights as asserted by the Left are goods they're demanding we, the taxpayers, fund. Nope!
Then the Rights were FROM the Government... and not Natural Rights.
And that opens up the door to insanity...
- - - -
Also, obligates someone else (not God) to provide something tangible. The "right to healthcare" obligates someone to fund it, people to provide that service, medical supplies, etc..
The rights as asserted by the Left are goods they're demanding we, the taxpayers, fund. Nope!
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:56 PM (W+vEI)
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:56 PM (Aamv2)
191
You keep peaceful social being by agreeing to certain standards/norms when with others. Not sure I've got it right...
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (W+vEI)
Yes, I agree. I was trying to be funny while making a similar point, but failed.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (W+vEI)
Yes, I agree. I was trying to be funny while making a similar point, but failed.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (8iiMU)
192
You must be one of them there "content readers".
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM
A moment, my good fellow, thoughtful perusing of the content is a well-established and honored tradition amongst The Hord ... wait a minute, who am I kidding?
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 01:50 PM
A moment, my good fellow, thoughtful perusing of the content is a well-established and honored tradition amongst The Hord ... wait a minute, who am I kidding?
Posted by: Throckmorton Worthington Throckmorton III at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (ctuyM)
193
Negative rights, by their very nature, take power away from Government.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
========================================
One distinction (that I think important): negative rights prevent government from gathering in power not explicitly granted to it by the people.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:48 PM (k1TUh)
========================================
One distinction (that I think important): negative rights prevent government from gathering in power not explicitly granted to it by the people.
Posted by: Huck Follywood, I'm your Huckleberry! at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (rBnYq)
194
There area a couple of positive rights.
The right to a trial by jury is positive.
But that's a positive right designed to slow the machinery of state, not a positive right to give you other people's stuff.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (aFMSC)
Actually.... I'd still classify a Trial by Jury as a Negative Right....
It is a limitation on the Government... that the Government cannot Try you without a jury of your Peers...
But that's semantics...
The right to a trial by jury is positive.
But that's a positive right designed to slow the machinery of state, not a positive right to give you other people's stuff.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (aFMSC)
Actually.... I'd still classify a Trial by Jury as a Negative Right....
It is a limitation on the Government... that the Government cannot Try you without a jury of your Peers...
But that's semantics...
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (NgKpN)
195
I think being a citizen and paying income taxes should be a requirement for voting.
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (hMwEB)
196
167 If having kids makes you more fit for office, the government should be run by welfare queens with 5 kids by 5 different men.
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (o2MD2)
--------------------------------
I was writing a wordy challenge to Gumby....
Then I saw that you NAILED it in one sentence!
Posted by: maddogg at April 25, 2018 01:53 PM (o2MD2)
--------------------------------
I was writing a wordy challenge to Gumby....
Then I saw that you NAILED it in one sentence!
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (0jtPF)
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (8iiMU)
198
182
I believe Jefferson was also childless. (with his wife at any rate. Not opening up that whole thing.)
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (7HtZB)
============
His wife gave birth to 4 daughters, I think.
One of them sometimes acted as First Lady in the Executive Mansion during his presidency (Dolley Madison did it the rest of the time).
I believe Jefferson was also childless. (with his wife at any rate. Not opening up that whole thing.)
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (7HtZB)
============
His wife gave birth to 4 daughters, I think.
One of them sometimes acted as First Lady in the Executive Mansion during his presidency (Dolley Madison did it the rest of the time).
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (9ZlHt)
199
Mistaking competence and influence for power is the Achilles heel of the GOP ruling class pundits. They compromised their message by framing it contextually against Trumpism. The MSM recognized the ability to exploit them for useful idiots, because of it. This has greatly reduced the influence these conservative opinion makers have with the Trump co-opted GOP base. They continue to double down by trying to frame their objection to Trump in terms of philosophical arguments, while he continues to measure himself in terms of practical accomplishments.
Posted by: TJ at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (E9BW0)
200
Ever since becoming an adult I've found it fascinating how opposed the "stay out of our bedrooms" left is to #10.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - I choose to live my life as a black woman at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (VgKNm)
201
Levin talked about positive and negative liberty in his opening monologue yesterday. He referenced some philosopher named Berlin.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (8iiMU)
Great songwriter, not sure if I would call him a philosopher, though.
Levin talked about positive and negative liberty in his opening monologue yesterday. He referenced some philosopher named Berlin.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 01:54 PM (8iiMU)
Great songwriter, not sure if I would call him a philosopher, though.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (7HtZB)
202
This list is milquetoast, I think.
#6 - hell, that can be used to justify communism. I work hard and my boss gets rich!
Ditto with #7: Forget that you have the right to free speech...you have a RESPONSIBILITY to keep your fricking mouth shut!!!
#6 - hell, that can be used to justify communism. I work hard and my boss gets rich!
Ditto with #7: Forget that you have the right to free speech...you have a RESPONSIBILITY to keep your fricking mouth shut!!!
Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (PFy0L)
203
>>Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
No Representation Without Taxation!
also
No Roger, No Re-Run -
No Rent!
No Representation Without Taxation!
also
No Roger, No Re-Run -
No Rent!
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (Aamv2)
204
There area a couple of positive rights.
The right to a trial by jury is positive.
But that's a positive right designed to slow the machinery of state, not a positive right to give you other people's stuff."
Yes, good point - and it means that the Government does NOT have the right to simply declare you guilty on its own, because it doesn't like you. I think the concept, as developed by our founders, is a recognition of the fact that Government is by its very nature so powerful, and power hungry, compared to any individual, that it HAS to be severely limited or else, in time, it will consume all.
The right to a trial by jury is positive.
But that's a positive right designed to slow the machinery of state, not a positive right to give you other people's stuff."
Yes, good point - and it means that the Government does NOT have the right to simply declare you guilty on its own, because it doesn't like you. I think the concept, as developed by our founders, is a recognition of the fact that Government is by its very nature so powerful, and power hungry, compared to any individual, that it HAS to be severely limited or else, in time, it will consume all.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (k1TUh)
205
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see."
--Benjamin Franklin
This is my basic position on Christianity: even if I were not a Christian and the basic historical story was false, I'd still live like one and want the world structured based on its principles.
What sin, for example only exists in itself outside of real world considerations and potential consequences
The first three commandments of the Decalogue.
But I do know what you mean: sin and morality has practical, real-world consequences. The problem is sometimes, perhaps often, those consequences are so delayed or so easily rationalized away that they can seem to be meaningless.
--Benjamin Franklin
This is my basic position on Christianity: even if I were not a Christian and the basic historical story was false, I'd still live like one and want the world structured based on its principles.
What sin, for example only exists in itself outside of real world considerations and potential consequences
The first three commandments of the Decalogue.
But I do know what you mean: sin and morality has practical, real-world consequences. The problem is sometimes, perhaps often, those consequences are so delayed or so easily rationalized away that they can seem to be meaningless.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (39g3+)
206
It's bizarre that we live in a time that the milquetoast and mild mannered Jordan Peterson is considered a controversial figure.
You can waste an enjoyable afternoon on Youtube looking at many of his seminars and interviews.
You can waste an enjoyable afternoon on Youtube looking at many of his seminars and interviews.
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (q177U)
207
For those of you thinking that these are old or repeated or cereal box----yeah they are because they're eternal truths for the most part. I'm not going to go to the trouble, but each would probably pair with a beatitude in some way. The fresher ones are just a response to the idea that the state will support you---there is no ancient example of that since it's so nuts.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (ahV/f)
208
198 182
I believe Jefferson was also childless. (with his wife at any rate. Not opening up that whole thing.)
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (7HtZB)
============
His wife gave birth to 4 daughters, I think.
One of them sometimes acted as First Lady in the Executive Mansion during his presidency (Dolley Madison did it the rest of the time).
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (9ZlHt)
Well, score one for La Salle's History program.
I believe Jefferson was also childless. (with his wife at any rate. Not opening up that whole thing.)
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:55 PM (7HtZB)
============
His wife gave birth to 4 daughters, I think.
One of them sometimes acted as First Lady in the Executive Mansion during his presidency (Dolley Madison did it the rest of the time).
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (9ZlHt)
Well, score one for La Salle's History program.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (7HtZB)
209
I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us. Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
Good Lord. You do realize that the DC swamp is an incestuous place don'tyou? If anything I'd say elected officials carving out spots for their children is the major problem.
I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us. Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:45 PM (2LelM)
Good Lord. You do realize that the DC swamp is an incestuous place don'tyou? If anything I'd say elected officials carving out spots for their children is the major problem.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (lKyWE)
210
Octomom
Octomom
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (leCj4)
211
The right to a jury trial and other specifications regarding criminal charge and trial are certainly positive rights that the Constitution spells out.
---------------------------
Rights to free speech, weapons and privacy are pretty positive for individuals - not so much for statists.
---------------------------
Rights to free speech, weapons and privacy are pretty positive for individuals - not so much for statists.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (2LelM)
212
13. Hillary Clinton will never be president of The United States.
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (jjaLl)
213
>>Its a shame America has unravelled so much that these are not obvious / agreeable to everyone anymore.
It's sad #1 even has to be on the list.
It's sad #1 even has to be on the list.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (W+vEI)
214
And the Constitution is just a blueprint of the architecture of the federal government. The rights noted in it are a very minor part. Most of the Constitution is just about the actual makeup of the federal government and what powers and responsibilities it has with respect to the nation. That is the meat of the document and that is the real foundation of the country.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (8gDQu)
215
190
>>He referenced some philosopher named Berlin.
Take My Breath Away.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:56 PM (Aamv2)
LOL.
Isaiah Berlin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty
>>He referenced some philosopher named Berlin.
Take My Breath Away.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 01:56 PM (Aamv2)
LOL.
Isaiah Berlin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (8iiMU)
216
194 Actually.... I'd still classify a Trial by Jury as a Negative Right....
It is a limitation on the Government... that the Government cannot Try you without a jury of your Peers...
But that's semantics...
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (NgKpN)
=============
I think the distinction is between something that no one can give you and something that someone else has to provide you.
Juries require other people's time, even labor. It's definitely positive. However, it's there as a bulwark against state power, so it's a positive right in the service of protective negative rights.
It is a limitation on the Government... that the Government cannot Try you without a jury of your Peers...
But that's semantics...
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (NgKpN)
=============
I think the distinction is between something that no one can give you and something that someone else has to provide you.
Juries require other people's time, even labor. It's definitely positive. However, it's there as a bulwark against state power, so it's a positive right in the service of protective negative rights.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (9ZlHt)
217
Where's the one where the cops get to drag your kid out of class for safely practicing a supervised and legal activity the day before?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - I choose to live my life as a black woman at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (VgKNm)
218
Great songwriter, not sure if I would call him a philosopher, though.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (7HtZB)
How about the Gershwins?
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (7HtZB)
How about the Gershwins?
Posted by: BignJames at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (0+nbW)
219
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
And the reverse: if you do pay taxes, your voice should be heard and part of the process. There's too much taking from citizens and ignoring them going on: exactly what triggered the last revolution.
And the reverse: if you do pay taxes, your voice should be heard and part of the process. There's too much taking from citizens and ignoring them going on: exactly what triggered the last revolution.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (39g3+)
220
This. Agree 100%. I'm not sure where this idea originated, but I keep seeing it more and more here.
=====
Europe has been on a suicidal path for a while and none of the movers and shakers in high office have children. Apres moi le deluge.
=====
Europe has been on a suicidal path for a while and none of the movers and shakers in high office have children. Apres moi le deluge.
Posted by: mustbequantum at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (MIKMs)
221
217 Where's the one where the cops get to drag your kid out of class for safely practicing a supervised and legal activity the day before?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - I choose to live my life as a black woman at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (VgKNm)
That's in the Thin Blue Line clause of the Constitution.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - I choose to live my life as a black woman at April 25, 2018 02:00 PM (VgKNm)
That's in the Thin Blue Line clause of the Constitution.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 25, 2018 02:01 PM (NWiLs)
222
Good Lord. You do realize that the DC swamp is an incestuous place don'tyou? If anything I'd say elected officials carving out spots for their children is the major problem.
---------------------
Do you wish to be ruled by a castrated Mandarin class? Its been tried. Brings up the idea that all Deep Staters must agree to be castrated and neutered. That may work.
---------------------
Do you wish to be ruled by a castrated Mandarin class? Its been tried. Brings up the idea that all Deep Staters must agree to be castrated and neutered. That may work.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:01 PM (2LelM)
223
The Gershwins were great and all, but they were no Cole Porter.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:01 PM (Aamv2)
224
You do realize that the DC swamp is an incestuous
place don'tyou? If anything I'd say elected officials carving out spots
for their children is the major problem.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM
Rubbish.
place don'tyou? If anything I'd say elected officials carving out spots
for their children is the major problem.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM
Rubbish.
Posted by: Chelsea at April 25, 2018 02:01 PM (ctuyM)
225
A little further....
I would go to war and die for the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights as written.
I don't know that I'd be very inspired to shed blood for this list.
I would go to war and die for the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights as written.
I don't know that I'd be very inspired to shed blood for this list.
Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at April 25, 2018 02:02 PM (PFy0L)
226
Where's the rule about boobies?
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 02:02 PM (q177U)
227
208 His wife gave birth to 4 daughters, I think.
One of them sometimes acted as First Lady in the Executive Mansion during his presidency (Dolley Madison did it the rest of the time).
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (9ZlHt)
Well, score one for La Salle's History program.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (7HtZB)
==============
All independent reading.
The only bit of history I learned at Virginia Tech was about the Civil War. I took Bud Robertson's 1 year Civil War course pretty much just because I could.
He wrote a great biography of Stonewall Jackson.
https://tinyurl.com/y7drsn2v
One of them sometimes acted as First Lady in the Executive Mansion during his presidency (Dolley Madison did it the rest of the time).
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (9ZlHt)
Well, score one for La Salle's History program.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 01:59 PM (7HtZB)
==============
All independent reading.
The only bit of history I learned at Virginia Tech was about the Civil War. I took Bud Robertson's 1 year Civil War course pretty much just because I could.
He wrote a great biography of Stonewall Jackson.
https://tinyurl.com/y7drsn2v
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:02 PM (9ZlHt)
228
But I do know what you mean: sin and morality has practical, real-world consequences. The problem is sometimes, perhaps often, those consequences are so delayed or so easily rationalized away that they can seem to be meaningless.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (39g3+)
-----
I would go further in that in a humanistic carpentered world ..... there can be no sin.
For if all we are are highly organized carbon atoms banging around on a planet doomed to be consumed by its suns supernova..... what relevence does sin or good have.
For if there is no "karmic" after.... what we say and do here has no meaning or even relevance. Sin is irrelevant.
But I do know what you mean: sin and morality has practical, real-world consequences. The problem is sometimes, perhaps often, those consequences are so delayed or so easily rationalized away that they can seem to be meaningless.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 01:58 PM (39g3+)
-----
I would go further in that in a humanistic carpentered world ..... there can be no sin.
For if all we are are highly organized carbon atoms banging around on a planet doomed to be consumed by its suns supernova..... what relevence does sin or good have.
For if there is no "karmic" after.... what we say and do here has no meaning or even relevance. Sin is irrelevant.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:03 PM (8XRCm)
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:03 PM (8XRCm)
230
I'm sick and tired of hearing about Universal Basic Income.
There are several incompatible definitions going around. The one the libertarians got behind basically said, "Eliminate all social programs, payouts, etc, and give everyone some amount of money X. We'll save money on overhead and fraud."
Then there's the one all the morons on the left love which is basically another handout on top of any and all other programs extant.
This is the one that's "on trial" in a few different locations in the US today. It's moronic. What exactly is the "trial" going to say but, "we found that giving people more money improved those individuals lives". BIG REVEAL, Einstein!
Of course there are a few other variations on this second one. For example there's a graduated version that gives more to the poor and none to the middle class.
There are several incompatible definitions going around. The one the libertarians got behind basically said, "Eliminate all social programs, payouts, etc, and give everyone some amount of money X. We'll save money on overhead and fraud."
Then there's the one all the morons on the left love which is basically another handout on top of any and all other programs extant.
This is the one that's "on trial" in a few different locations in the US today. It's moronic. What exactly is the "trial" going to say but, "we found that giving people more money improved those individuals lives". BIG REVEAL, Einstein!
Of course there are a few other variations on this second one. For example there's a graduated version that gives more to the poor and none to the middle class.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (iv0p7)
231
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
But they pay sales taxes!
-The usual leftist response (I'm looking at you, Mara Liasson)
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
But they pay sales taxes!
-The usual leftist response (I'm looking at you, Mara Liasson)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (IqV8l)
232
Okay, maybe I'm the one misreading #5. Perhaps it needs to be rephrased.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (RD7QR)
233
231
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
But they pay sales taxes!
-The usual leftist response (I'm looking at you, Mara Liasson)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (IqV8l)
=============
There's a federal sales tax?!?!?
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
But they pay sales taxes!
-The usual leftist response (I'm looking at you, Mara Liasson)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (IqV8l)
=============
There's a federal sales tax?!?!?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (9ZlHt)
234
I can imagine a montage of reaction shots to that list ranging from crying, fainting, someone screaming while repeatedly punching themselves in the crotch, to an actual exploding head.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (4ErVI)
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (jjaLl)
236
Where's the rule about boobies?
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 02:02 PM (q177U)
Which one? The more than a mouthful one?
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 02:02 PM (q177U)
Which one? The more than a mouthful one?
Posted by: BignJames at April 25, 2018 02:04 PM (0+nbW)
237
I think #2 should be one point on a sliding scale. Yes, get along as much as is possible, don't unnecessarily create friction. On the other end, if society is grossly immoral and oppressive and you are in the minority in dissent, you should hang on to your idiosyncrasy even if it causes friction. In other words, morality should determine where on the scale your situation is and how you should act.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (/qEW2)
238
top 69...
Posted by: Todler at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (8D42x)
-----
..... um ..... phrasing??
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (8XRCm)
intentional. I was trying to reach the Gronk demographic...
Posted by: Todler at April 25, 2018 01:39 PM (8D42x)
-----
..... um ..... phrasing??
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 01:44 PM (8XRCm)
intentional. I was trying to reach the Gronk demographic...
Posted by: Todler at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (8D42x)
239
Actually.... I'd still classify a Trial by Jury as a Negative Right....
It is a limitation on the Government... that the Government cannot Try you without a jury of your Peers...
But that's semantics...
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (NgKpN)
It is "positive" in the sense that it obligates the government to take certain actions. If you ever had any doubt about how "positive" with respect to the government this right is (and all that goes with it) just look at the person in America with no rights, at all ... a claimed material witness in a trial. The court can force that witness to do absolutely anything and to reveal any information it deems material - publicly, too.
Also, look at the government power to force someone onto a jury. One day of jury duty and you come face to face with the "positive" right (wrt the government) of the jury trial specification. Jury duty is tantamount to slave labor. You shouldn't need more proof of the "positive" aspect of the right to a jury trial.
It is a limitation on the Government... that the Government cannot Try you without a jury of your Peers...
But that's semantics...
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (NgKpN)
It is "positive" in the sense that it obligates the government to take certain actions. If you ever had any doubt about how "positive" with respect to the government this right is (and all that goes with it) just look at the person in America with no rights, at all ... a claimed material witness in a trial. The court can force that witness to do absolutely anything and to reveal any information it deems material - publicly, too.
Also, look at the government power to force someone onto a jury. One day of jury duty and you come face to face with the "positive" right (wrt the government) of the jury trial specification. Jury duty is tantamount to slave labor. You shouldn't need more proof of the "positive" aspect of the right to a jury trial.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (8gDQu)
240
Do you wish to be ruled by a castrated Mandarin class? Its been tried. Brings up the idea that all Deep Staters must agree to be castrated and neutered. That may work.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:01 PM (2LelM)
Yes much better to be ruled by third and fourth genreration elitist of the political class.
Do you wish to be ruled by a castrated Mandarin class? Its been tried. Brings up the idea that all Deep Staters must agree to be castrated and neutered. That may work.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:01 PM (2LelM)
Yes much better to be ruled by third and fourth genreration elitist of the political class.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (lKyWE)
241
#6 - hell, that can be used to justify communism. I work hard and my boss gets rich! "
I think you misunderstand his phrase - # 6, "Citizens have the inalienable right to benefit from their own unforced labor", has been the bedrock founding principle of every capitalist society that has ever existed, and is the exact OPPOSITE of communism.
Communism holds that all must labor for the State, with no compensation except that which the State chooses to hand out, if any. The answer to someone who thinks he is not being compensated properly, in a capitalist society of negative rights, is for that person to quit that employment and go search for a better job elsewhere. That is what is his inalienable right. Likewise, an employer has the inalienable right to fire someone who isn't performing up to expectations.
I think you misunderstand his phrase - # 6, "Citizens have the inalienable right to benefit from their own unforced labor", has been the bedrock founding principle of every capitalist society that has ever existed, and is the exact OPPOSITE of communism.
Communism holds that all must labor for the State, with no compensation except that which the State chooses to hand out, if any. The answer to someone who thinks he is not being compensated properly, in a capitalist society of negative rights, is for that person to quit that employment and go search for a better job elsewhere. That is what is his inalienable right. Likewise, an employer has the inalienable right to fire someone who isn't performing up to expectations.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (k1TUh)
242
Floor trading wench Nicole Petallides is talking about the 10 yr treasury at a 3% interest rate while wearing a nice blue top. Of course stock prices will dip a bit when interest rates go up.
And, of course interest rates will go up as the economy picks up.
Duh.
And, of course interest rates will go up as the economy picks up.
Duh.
Posted by: anchorbabe fashion cop at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (8iiMU)
243
It explains Peterson's popularity. He's taking old wisdom and traditional truths and breaking them down into psychological and scientific-sounding answers. Don't sleep around before you're marriage is very sound advice morally and based on long tradition, but he's trying to explain how its bad scientifically and sociologically using terms the "I f'in love science" generation eats up.
This is a culture which rejects revealed knowledge and wisdom, insisting on a laboratory-tested answer. For this society, you cannot simply trust the wisdom of elders and experience, you have to have a scientific-sounding answer or its just wrong.
Jonas Goldberg once defined Neo-Conservatism as the effort to scientifically prove that everything your grandma told you was true.
Now that "neoconservative" is a bad word meaning "war-mongering liberal," what do we call this?
This is a culture which rejects revealed knowledge and wisdom, insisting on a laboratory-tested answer. For this society, you cannot simply trust the wisdom of elders and experience, you have to have a scientific-sounding answer or its just wrong.
Jonas Goldberg once defined Neo-Conservatism as the effort to scientifically prove that everything your grandma told you was true.
Now that "neoconservative" is a bad word meaning "war-mongering liberal," what do we call this?
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (bZ7mE)
244
I think the greatest and most important thing conservatives can do is to "re-normalize" the idea that heterosexual marriage and parenting is beneficial for society.
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (q177U)
245
(I'm looking at you, Mara Liasson)
--------------------------
Man, looking at Mara Liasson these days is hard on the eyes. Ouch.
--------------------------
Man, looking at Mara Liasson these days is hard on the eyes. Ouch.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (2LelM)
246
It strikes me that one of the big drawbacks of the "conservative" movement is that it all too often fails to make direct and emotional connections to people.
"Leftist" thought is all about making direct, emotional connections to people, and then using their emotional responses to build power bases and feathering the "elite's" nests. But they start with the emotional connection.
It doesn't take much honest intellectual energy to realize that "conservative" philosophies (broadly construed) simply work better than "leftist" philosophies. But it has to be **honest** intellectual energy.
(I shy away from using "liberal" as the counterpoint to "conservative" becausse as we all know, today's modern leftists like the MSM and the Democrat Party are far, far, far removed from anything that could be conceived as "liberal" about anything except their liberal approach to spending other people's money.)
Conservatives need to be far better across the board at making the **emotional** case for a conservative mindset.
It seems to me that Peterson is groping his own personal way towards finding the emotional case for conservatism. He's not there yet, but he's ahead of most people--especially GOPe "conservatives" who mainly want their nests feathered with crumbs falling down from whatever the Leftist locusts don't consume themselves.
He's making an honest intellectual effort, I think.
"Leftist" thought is all about making direct, emotional connections to people, and then using their emotional responses to build power bases and feathering the "elite's" nests. But they start with the emotional connection.
It doesn't take much honest intellectual energy to realize that "conservative" philosophies (broadly construed) simply work better than "leftist" philosophies. But it has to be **honest** intellectual energy.
(I shy away from using "liberal" as the counterpoint to "conservative" becausse as we all know, today's modern leftists like the MSM and the Democrat Party are far, far, far removed from anything that could be conceived as "liberal" about anything except their liberal approach to spending other people's money.)
Conservatives need to be far better across the board at making the **emotional** case for a conservative mindset.
It seems to me that Peterson is groping his own personal way towards finding the emotional case for conservatism. He's not there yet, but he's ahead of most people--especially GOPe "conservatives" who mainly want their nests feathered with crumbs falling down from whatever the Leftist locusts don't consume themselves.
He's making an honest intellectual effort, I think.
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (953wK)
247
>>I'm sick and tired of hearing about Universal Basic Income.
The way to counter this is to bring up the analogous argument for Universal Basic Snatch.
The way to counter this is to bring up the analogous argument for Universal Basic Snatch.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (Aamv2)
248
220 - Which is to say, a slice of Americans, who generally cannot name most of their own elected officials, have decided based on the truly miniscule number of European politicians that they can identify, that all European leaders are childless. If someone has a country by country analysis of elected officials and whether they've reproduced, I'd be happy to consider the evidence. Otherwise, what we have here is standard make-believe Internet "facts."
Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (knDqF)
249
>>This is the one that's "on trial" in a few different locations in the US today. It's moronic. What exactly is the "trial" going to say but, "we found that giving people more money improved those individuals lives". BIG REVEAL, Einstein!
Heh, Finland just ended its universal income trial. Did not work.
They want to replace it with a program that requires a minimum of 18 hours work per 3 month period to qualify for benefits.
Heh, Finland just ended its universal income trial. Did not work.
They want to replace it with a program that requires a minimum of 18 hours work per 3 month period to qualify for benefits.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (W+vEI)
250
#11 will cancel everything else out no matter how positive those remaining principles are .
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (t8kZU)
251
Finland tried a universal basic income as an experiment. They recently dumped the idea. Switzerland had a vote on doing that there, and it lost 75%-25%.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (39g3+)
252
I wanted a Chesterson fence around my yard, but couldn't get a permit.
Posted by: Roland THTG at April 25, 2018 02:07 PM (xBSm0)
253
Where's the one where the cops get to drag your kid out of class for safely practicing a supervised and legal activity the day before?
Posted by: Moron Robbie
-------------
Zhivago: "You have no right to call me from work."
Political Officer: "As a Soviet Deputy, l... "
Zhivago: "That gives you power , not the
right."
Political Officer: "It's noticed, you know. Your attitude is noticed."
Posted by: Moron Robbie
-------------
Zhivago: "You have no right to call me from work."
Political Officer: "As a Soviet Deputy, l... "
Zhivago: "That gives you power , not the
right."
Political Officer: "It's noticed, you know. Your attitude is noticed."
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 02:07 PM (leCj4)
254
Look how many of the replies to that tweet are focused on #11. Sigh.
Posted by: NYC Moron at April 25, 2018 02:07 PM (Yx9SN)
255
251 Finland tried a universal basic income as an experiment. They recently dumped the idea. Switzerland had a vote on doing that there, and it lost 75%-25%.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (39g3+)
=============
The vote was a plot to weed out that 25%.
Switzerland is going to be a paradise soon!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM (39g3+)
=============
The vote was a plot to weed out that 25%.
Switzerland is going to be a paradise soon!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:07 PM (9ZlHt)
256
Now that "neoconservative" is a bad word meaning "war-mongering liberal," what do we call this?
=====
Common Sense.
(could bring the Paine)
=====
Common Sense.
(could bring the Paine)
Posted by: mustbequantum at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (MIKMs)
257
The first three commandments of the Decalogue.
Ha! I knew someone would answer that. Yet.............having a non-work day for rest is important mentally, physically and socially. An employer could easily demand 7 days of work per week, it benefits the family/person/society to have one day not toiling. The Sabbath isn't for God, it's for man. Without the other two, the remaining 8 don't work, in fact "not taking God's name in vain" allows that when it is taken, the user can be trusted as in being sworn in, having "no other gods" cuts out all kinds of potential social problems see multiculturalism. All three work like saying the Pledge of Allegiance used to, ie promotes social cohesion. Most of our problems are because of ignoring 1-2 and those seeking a replacement.
Ha! I knew someone would answer that. Yet.............having a non-work day for rest is important mentally, physically and socially. An employer could easily demand 7 days of work per week, it benefits the family/person/society to have one day not toiling. The Sabbath isn't for God, it's for man. Without the other two, the remaining 8 don't work, in fact "not taking God's name in vain" allows that when it is taken, the user can be trusted as in being sworn in, having "no other gods" cuts out all kinds of potential social problems see multiculturalism. All three work like saying the Pledge of Allegiance used to, ie promotes social cohesion. Most of our problems are because of ignoring 1-2 and those seeking a replacement.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (ahV/f)
258
#4 is such common sense, it's hard to believe how naive the left is on this issue. It's truly a case of rose tinted glasses welded to their faces.
"Sure, the [illegals/refugees, etc.] live in a barbaric society. That is why we must rescue them by bringing them all here! Then they will magically see how wonderful our ways are and adopt them. In fact, they are noble savages, far nobler than the average racist, consumer driven, xenophobic American".
"Sure, the [illegals/refugees, etc.] live in a barbaric society. That is why we must rescue them by bringing them all here! Then they will magically see how wonderful our ways are and adopt them. In fact, they are noble savages, far nobler than the average racist, consumer driven, xenophobic American".
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (/qEW2)
259
I like the idiot commenter that said there is 0 percent abuse among homosexual parents. Perhaps she's just not looking hard enough. She could start with the lesbian couple from Woodland WA that was investigated for child abuse, then drove the van off a cliff, killing them all. She's not even addressing the rule, which says that children should be raised with heterosexual couples, for their development.
Posted by: notsothoreau at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (5HBd1)
260
Man, looking at Mara Liasson these days is hard on the eyes. Ouch.
Posted by: Gumby
-------------
Years of exposure to NPR is debilitating, it seems.
Posted by: Gumby
-------------
Years of exposure to NPR is debilitating, it seems.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (leCj4)
261
It's bizarre that we live in a time that the milquetoast and mild mannered Jordan Peterson is considered a controversial figure.
You can waste an enjoyable afternoon on Youtube looking at many of his seminars and interviews.
Which I've done many time since discovering him a few months ago.
I have yet to find anything he says to be untruthful. And his lecture series on Christianity is pretty good. He has a great intellect, IMO, and I'm glad he's out there saying this.
It's bizarre that we live in a time that the milquetoast and mild mannered Jordan Peterson is considered a controversial figure.
You can waste an enjoyable afternoon on Youtube looking at many of his seminars and interviews.
Which I've done many time since discovering him a few months ago.
I have yet to find anything he says to be untruthful. And his lecture series on Christianity is pretty good. He has a great intellect, IMO, and I'm glad he's out there saying this.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy likes lobster at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (GdWl+)
262
How about Heinlein's Starship Trooper rule that only those who have served in the military have a right to vote?
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (2LelM)
263
If you want to experiment and have money to just give away why not make people work for it instead in the first place?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (t8kZU)
264
254 Look how many of the replies to that tweet are focused on #11. Sigh.
Posted by: NYC Moron at April 25, 2018 02:07 PM (Yx9SN)
==============
Because there is literally nothing more important than making sure that people who are not in intact 2 parent hetero marriages feel that they are just the best.
Literally!
Posted by: NYC Moron at April 25, 2018 02:07 PM (Yx9SN)
==============
Because there is literally nothing more important than making sure that people who are not in intact 2 parent hetero marriages feel that they are just the best.
Literally!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (9ZlHt)
265
I am hoping that ace is writing a movie review in the background or that he really enjoyed whatever it is he's sleeping off.
Both are good, I approve of ewoks getting the orgies they deserve.
This is twaddle. It's off-hand meanderings. There is no core. You can read conservative values into it, but only if you try.
"It is more noble to...". For fuck's sake, did I ask for lessons on nobility? Where is the "leave me alone" part of getting government out of people's way?
Both are good, I approve of ewoks getting the orgies they deserve.
This is twaddle. It's off-hand meanderings. There is no core. You can read conservative values into it, but only if you try.
"It is more noble to...". For fuck's sake, did I ask for lessons on nobility? Where is the "leave me alone" part of getting government out of people's way?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (fuK7c)
266
"neoconservative" doesn't mean joo anymore?
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (ahV/f)
267
Ha! I knew someone would answer that. Yet.............having a non-work day for rest is important mentally, physically and socially. An employer could easily demand 7 days of work per week, it benefits the family/person/society to have one day not toiling. The Sabbath isn't for God, it's for man.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (ahV/f)
I would just note, as an aside, that islam has no day of rest.
Posted by: dagny at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (ahV/f)
I would just note, as an aside, that islam has no day of rest.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (8gDQu)
268
Also, look at the government power to force someone onto a jury. One day of jury duty and you come face to face with the "positive" right (wrt the government) of the jury trial specification. Jury duty is tantamount to slave labor. You shouldn't need more proof of the "positive" aspect of the right to a jury trial.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (8gDQu)
I got a summons last year and did a lot of research into the process and it's shocking what they can get away with in order to compel you to appear. I get that people would just not show up otherwise, but they're kind of dicks about it.
They also freak out about any mention of jury nullification. Some people have been thrown in jail for mentioning it...even though it has historical precedent and can absolutely be done. The British actually quit trying to prosecute maritime crimes here when we were a colony because of nullification.
Fortunately, I called an my number wasn't called so I didn't have to go. We have a one day one trial thing here so if you're not called, you don't have to keep checking in for a week or a month or whatever.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (8gDQu)
I got a summons last year and did a lot of research into the process and it's shocking what they can get away with in order to compel you to appear. I get that people would just not show up otherwise, but they're kind of dicks about it.
They also freak out about any mention of jury nullification. Some people have been thrown in jail for mentioning it...even though it has historical precedent and can absolutely be done. The British actually quit trying to prosecute maritime crimes here when we were a colony because of nullification.
Fortunately, I called an my number wasn't called so I didn't have to go. We have a one day one trial thing here so if you're not called, you don't have to keep checking in for a week or a month or whatever.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (4ErVI)
269
"consumed by its suns supernova"
Actually, the sun is not big enough to supernova. It will become a red giant, and then a white dwarf.
Actually, the sun is not big enough to supernova. It will become a red giant, and then a white dwarf.
Posted by: Chris M at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (eAZVt)
270
Re: Childless politicians, I'll just observe that my liberal brother has three daughters, and I have none.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (bZ7mE)
271
I'd kind of rather go back a step from this, and teach the principles its based on.
That all power rests in the hands of the people who grant the government very limited and specific power as outlined in the constitution.
That all rights are inherent to being human, God-given and not state-granted, and inalienable in that they cannot be revoked, only their free exercise limited.
That humanity has a basic innate value and importance beyond all other creatures, and that importance necessarily means certain things about property, life, and liberty.
That liberty is worth dying for and well worth the discomfort and price that we must pay for it.
That liberty must mean freedom of conscience to believe and think and have faith in whatever one chooses without restriction or assault from anyone else.
Things like that.
That all power rests in the hands of the people who grant the government very limited and specific power as outlined in the constitution.
That all rights are inherent to being human, God-given and not state-granted, and inalienable in that they cannot be revoked, only their free exercise limited.
That humanity has a basic innate value and importance beyond all other creatures, and that importance necessarily means certain things about property, life, and liberty.
That liberty is worth dying for and well worth the discomfort and price that we must pay for it.
That liberty must mean freedom of conscience to believe and think and have faith in whatever one chooses without restriction or assault from anyone else.
Things like that.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (39g3+)
272
>>I think #2 should be one point on a sliding scale. Yes, get along as much as is possible, don't unnecessarily create friction. On the other end, if society is grossly immoral and oppressive and you are in the minority in dissent, you should hang on to your idiosyncrasy even if it causes friction. In other words, morality should determine where on the scale your situation is and how you should act.
Yeah, think #2 is entirely dependent on #1 - agreeing that the fundamental assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
Yeah, think #2 is entirely dependent on #1 - agreeing that the fundamental assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (W+vEI)
273
I think the greatest and most important thing
conservatives can do is to "re-normalize" the idea that heterosexual
marriage and parenting is beneficial for society.
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (q177U)
===================
Amen. No functional family = No functional society.
conservatives can do is to "re-normalize" the idea that heterosexual
marriage and parenting is beneficial for society.
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 02:05 PM (q177U)
===================
Amen. No functional family = No functional society.
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (lwiT4)
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (hMwEB)
275
From the sidebar....is Bridget Phetasy a thing?
Posted by: Muad'dib at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (sjdRT)
276
274 Braveheart makes the emotional case for conservatism:
Freeeedommmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (hMwEB)
=============
Freedom to become the socialist backwater of the British Isles.
Freeeedommmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (hMwEB)
=============
Freedom to become the socialist backwater of the British Isles.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (9ZlHt)
277
#1 - The fundamental assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
==================
What are the fundamental assumptions?
==================
What are the fundamental assumptions?
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (lwiT4)
278
Most of our problems are because of ignoring 1-2 and those seeking a replacement.
Again, I don't disagree but for someone like Peterson its impossible to defend scientifically. Jordan Peterson is great at recognizing the benefits of Christianity but lousy at understanding it.
Again, I don't disagree but for someone like Peterson its impossible to defend scientifically. Jordan Peterson is great at recognizing the benefits of Christianity but lousy at understanding it.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (39g3+)
279
The way to counter this is to bring up the analogous argument for Universal Basic Snatch.
We gotta get Bernie Sanders to argue for this.
We gotta get Bernie Sanders to argue for this.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (gm9yG)
280
Actually, the sun is not big enough to supernova. It will become a red giant, and then a white dwarf.
Posted by: Chris M at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (eAZVt)
----
Pedants are evil in any philosophy.
Posted by: Chris M at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (eAZVt)
----
Pedants are evil in any philosophy.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (8XRCm)
281
270 Re: Childless politicians, I'll just observe that my liberal brother has three daughters, and I have none.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (bZ7mE)
Yup, my liberal brother has 4 kids and I'm still single & childless.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (bZ7mE)
Yup, my liberal brother has 4 kids and I'm still single & childless.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (7HtZB)
282
Which one? The more than a mouthful one?
Posted by: BignJames
BignJames is apparently a goat or something. Here among the human males we generally go by the "more than a handful" rule.
Posted by: BignJames
BignJames is apparently a goat or something. Here among the human males we generally go by the "more than a handful" rule.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (iv0p7)
283
195 I think being a citizen and paying income taxes should be a requirement for voting.
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (hMwEB)
------------------------------
People are familiar with the old maxim "no taxation without representation." But they do not realize that it originally included the corollary, "no representation without taxation."
Until you chip in, you don't get a say on how taxes are spent.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 01:57 PM (hMwEB)
------------------------------
People are familiar with the old maxim "no taxation without representation." But they do not realize that it originally included the corollary, "no representation without taxation."
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (0jtPF)
284
13. Pants are optional.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (oVJmc)
285
Freedom to become the socialist backwater of the British Isles.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (9ZlHt)
*chops off TJM's head with claymore*
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (9ZlHt)
*chops off TJM's head with claymore*
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (hMwEB)
286
>>Look how many of the replies to that tweet are focused on #11. Sigh.
Of course it is, since so much of the Left's efforts are on destroying the traditional family. You have to destroy the family so that you can replace it with the state. A nation of Obama's imaginary "Julias" depending on Uncle Sugar from cradle to grave.
Of course it is, since so much of the Left's efforts are on destroying the traditional family. You have to destroy the family so that you can replace it with the state. A nation of Obama's imaginary "Julias" depending on Uncle Sugar from cradle to grave.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (W+vEI)
287
O/T
LOL!!!
Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown.......
LOL!!!
Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown.......
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (jjaLl)
288
I would just note, as an aside, that islam has no day of rest.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (8gDQu)
---
From what I've seen of the Islamic world, every day is a day rest. Seriously, it seems like NONE of them have jobs.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (8gDQu)
---
From what I've seen of the Islamic world, every day is a day rest. Seriously, it seems like NONE of them have jobs.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (AzW6q)
Posted by: Maxine Waters' Hair at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (pYqXv)
290
What are the fundamental assumptions?
Right, that's what has to be established and taught again, first. None of this works without the foundation its all based upon. And part of that foundation is the principle that a republic cannot survive without a virtuous people.
Right, that's what has to be established and taught again, first. None of this works without the foundation its all based upon. And part of that foundation is the principle that a republic cannot survive without a virtuous people.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (39g3+)
291
285 Freedom to become the socialist backwater of the British Isles.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (9ZlHt)
*chops off TJM's head with claymore*
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (hMwEB)
==============
Do you need a safe space from my FACTS?!?!?!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (9ZlHt)
*chops off TJM's head with claymore*
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (hMwEB)
==============
Do you need a safe space from my FACTS?!?!?!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (9ZlHt)
292
Actually, the sun is not big enough to supernova. It will become a red giant, and then a white dwarf.
Posted by: Chris M at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (eAZVt)
Red giant privilege.
Posted by: Chris M at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (eAZVt)
Red giant privilege.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (8iiMU)
Posted by: Chris M at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (eAZVt)
294
I'm waiting to see what Taylor Swift thinks about this before commenting.
Posted by: physics geek at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (huQJB)
295
#1 - The fundamental assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
==================
What are the fundamental assumptions?
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (lwiT4)
An excellent question.
I suspect the answer has the term "Judeo-Christian" embedded somewhere within.
==================
What are the fundamental assumptions?
Posted by: grammie winger - Springing at April 25, 2018 02:11 PM (lwiT4)
An excellent question.
I suspect the answer has the term "Judeo-Christian" embedded somewhere within.
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (953wK)
296
Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown.......
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (jjaLl)
They will probably have him involuntarily committed and reprogrammed.
electroshock therapy
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (jjaLl)
They will probably have him involuntarily committed and reprogrammed.
electroshock therapy
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (hMwEB)
297
They also freak out about any mention of jury nullification. Some people have been thrown in jail for mentioning it...even though it has historical precedent and can absolutely be done. The British actually quit trying to prosecute maritime crimes here when we were a colony because of nullification.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (4ErVI)
I was threatened with jail by a judge during the voire dire for jury duty because he asked me if I would follow his instructions and I gave him an honest answer, "I'll listen to them and if I think they make sense then I will follow them. Otherwise, I won't." The judge subpoenaed me and made me sit through the whole trial. Funny part, in the end while charging the jury he fvcked up the instructions.
And the SCOTUS has ruled that jury nullification is perfectly legal. This is obvious because the jury is required to submit nothing but a verdict. If jury nullification were illegal then juries would have to submit reasoning for their verdicts, too.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 25, 2018 02:09 PM (4ErVI)
I was threatened with jail by a judge during the voire dire for jury duty because he asked me if I would follow his instructions and I gave him an honest answer, "I'll listen to them and if I think they make sense then I will follow them. Otherwise, I won't." The judge subpoenaed me and made me sit through the whole trial. Funny part, in the end while charging the jury he fvcked up the instructions.
And the SCOTUS has ruled that jury nullification is perfectly legal. This is obvious because the jury is required to submit nothing but a verdict. If jury nullification were illegal then juries would have to submit reasoning for their verdicts, too.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (8gDQu)
298
How about The Declaration and The Bill of Fucking Rights?
Instead of berating me to; 'Visit the Goddamned Forest' and 'Feed the Pig!' or 'Don't Smoke in the House'
How about the Government's Foundation for Broadcasting (or NPR or whatever) actually broadcast, celibrate and ratify our Founding Principals.
Instead of berating me to; 'Visit the Goddamned Forest' and 'Feed the Pig!' or 'Don't Smoke in the House'
How about the Government's Foundation for Broadcasting (or NPR or whatever) actually broadcast, celibrate and ratify our Founding Principals.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (Aamv2)
299
Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown.......
They will do *anything* to stop black voters from thinking seriously about what he's saying now.
They will do *anything* to stop black voters from thinking seriously about what he's saying now.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (gm9yG)
300
It get's the gorilla off your front.
Posted by: DaveA at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (FhXTo)
301
274 Braveheart makes the emotional case for conservatism:
Freeeedommmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------
Translation: Freedom = Lets Kill The English.
Freeeedommmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------
Translation: Freedom = Lets Kill The English.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (2LelM)
302
Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown
Yeah I think his wife is scrambling to save herself from backlash and get control of the social media narrative. CHECK OUT MY BIZARRELY HUGE SURGICALLY ALTERED REAR END!!!!1!1!!!!
Yeah I think his wife is scrambling to save herself from backlash and get control of the social media narrative. CHECK OUT MY BIZARRELY HUGE SURGICALLY ALTERED REAR END!!!!1!1!!!!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Roland THTG at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (xBSm0)
304
>>>I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us.<<<
Al Gore has children
Hillary Clinton has an offspring
Barack Obama has family
All three are near complete fucksticks. Carry on.
Al Gore has children
Hillary Clinton has an offspring
Barack Obama has family
All three are near complete fucksticks. Carry on.
Posted by: Fritz at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (2Mnv1)
305
The way to counter this is to bring up the analogous argument for Universal Basic Snatch.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM
I read that as Universal Basic Scotch. Preferably upper shelf stuff. But then it's not basic anymore, right?
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:06 PM
I read that as Universal Basic Scotch. Preferably upper shelf stuff. But then it's not basic anymore, right?
Posted by: Forgot My Nic at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (LOgQ4)
306
I knew it was Peterson after reading the first premise. A small hummock of sanity in a swamp of dysfunction.
Posted by: West at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (7Fa8Y)
307
Mel Gibson built half his career on hating the British, from Braveheart to The Patriot.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (39g3+)
308
How about Heinlein's Starship Trooper rule that only those who have served in the military have a right to vote?
I believe that is called a "military aristocracy."
Really bad idea when you actually start thinking about it.
I believe that is called a "military aristocracy."
Really bad idea when you actually start thinking about it.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (bZ7mE)
309
BignJames is apparently a goat or something. Here among the human males we generally go by the "more than a handful" rule.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (iv0p7)
I just have a big mouth.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (iv0p7)
I just have a big mouth.
Posted by: BignJames at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (0+nbW)
310
Do you need a safe space from my FACTS?!?!?!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (9ZlHt)
I chopped off your head and you're still talking?!
LOL
Braveheart isn't about Scotland, really. It's about tyranny. Universal human experience.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:13 PM (9ZlHt)
I chopped off your head and you're still talking?!
LOL
Braveheart isn't about Scotland, really. It's about tyranny. Universal human experience.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (hMwEB)
311
288 From what I've seen of the Islamic world, every day is a day rest. Seriously, it seems like NONE of them have jobs.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (AzW6q)
Hey now, sending your children out to blow themselves up is hard work!
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (AzW6q)
Hey now, sending your children out to blow themselves up is hard work!
Posted by: Hikaru at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (9TK8E)
312
Just read in the side-bar the Maine Democrats voting against banning female genital mutilation in their state.
WTF?? Absolutely horrible. Everyone of the Democratic woman should have to have this procedure with a rusty knife. Every man, castrated.
WTF?? Absolutely horrible. Everyone of the Democratic woman should have to have this procedure with a rusty knife. Every man, castrated.
Posted by: Cheri at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (oiNtH)
313
I toyed with the idea of Universal Basic Income for a while, wondering if there was a way it could work - but finally decided that it would always be nothing but a modernized version of the old "Bread and Circuses" which the Roman Emperors would use to buy peace with the mob on the Roman Street. It's a policy that buys short term peace, makes a lot of people feel good, and makes a lot of politicians comfortable, but it inevitably leads to systemic bankruptcy and societal collapse.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (k1TUh)
314
white dwarf.
*PHWEEEET*
Penalty:Triggering
Loss of down.
"I think you mean 'wan little star'"
--Prime Minister Trudeau
*PHWEEEET*
Penalty:Triggering
Loss of down.
"I think you mean 'wan little star'"
--Prime Minister Trudeau
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:16 PM (39g3+)
315
Mel Gibson built half his career on hating the British, from Braveheart to The Patriot.
Since England was run by the Romans at the time, you could sneak Passion of the Christ into that category too.
Since England was run by the Romans at the time, you could sneak Passion of the Christ into that category too.
Posted by: Ian S. at April 25, 2018 02:16 PM (gm9yG)
316
Re: Childless politicians, I'll just observe that my liberal brother has three daughters, and I have none.
=====
To secure the blessings of Liberty for ourselves and our posterity can be physical children, can be writings, can be a life well lived.
In a materialist worldview, there is nothing higher than self.
=====
To secure the blessings of Liberty for ourselves and our posterity can be physical children, can be writings, can be a life well lived.
In a materialist worldview, there is nothing higher than self.
Posted by: mustbequantum at April 25, 2018 02:16 PM (MIKMs)
317
Actually, the sun is not big enough to supernova. It will become a red giant, and then a white dwarf.
-----
And then become Hand of The Queen
-----
And then become Hand of The Queen
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 02:16 PM (7HtZB)
318
>>I read that as Universal Basic Scotch. Preferably upper shelf stuff. But then it's not basic anymore, right?
...and there's the argument in a nutshell. Do we have the right to all drink top shelf Scotch / bang hot chicks? Or do we all get a slightly below average Scotch to drink / chick to bang?
...and there's the argument in a nutshell. Do we have the right to all drink top shelf Scotch / bang hot chicks? Or do we all get a slightly below average Scotch to drink / chick to bang?
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (Aamv2)
319
This short list doesn't offend me in any way because I've already heard the long version in his videos.
Sometimes, as the readers of Cosmo can attest, shorter isn't better.
This short list doesn't offend me in any way because I've already heard the long version in his videos.
Sometimes, as the readers of Cosmo can attest, shorter isn't better.
Posted by: Forgot My Nic at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (LOgQ4)
320
310
I chopped off your head and you're still talking?!
LOL
Braveheart isn't about Scotland, really. It's about tyranny. Universal human experience.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (hMwEB)
=============
The head lives on for a few seconds after death. I don't have much longer.
Yeah, the subtext, but the actual story on top leads to socialist backwater!
And...my ten seconds are up.
:skull:
I chopped off your head and you're still talking?!
LOL
Braveheart isn't about Scotland, really. It's about tyranny. Universal human experience.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (hMwEB)
=============
The head lives on for a few seconds after death. I don't have much longer.
Yeah, the subtext, but the actual story on top leads to socialist backwater!
And...my ten seconds are up.
:skull:
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (9ZlHt)
321
279 The way to counter this is to bring up the analogous argument for Universal Basic Snatch.
We gotta get Bernie Sanders to argue for this.
-----------------------------
Have you ever seen Bernie's wife?
We gotta get Bernie Sanders to argue for this.
-----------------------------
Have you ever seen Bernie's wife?
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (2LelM)
322
Mel Gibson built half his career on hating the British, from Braveheart to The Patriot.
He started with Gallipoli.
He started with Gallipoli.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (8gDQu)
323
312 Just read in the side-bar the Maine Democrats voting against banning female genital mutilation in their state.
WTF?? Absolutely horrible. Everyone of the Democratic woman should have to have this procedure with a rusty knife. Every man, castrated.
Posted by: Cheri at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (oiNtH)
Leftists are just so enamored with letting the Murderous Islamic Hordes loose to run wild on all of us undesirables that they'll give in to anything Muhammad's Evil Brood wants.
WTF?? Absolutely horrible. Everyone of the Democratic woman should have to have this procedure with a rusty knife. Every man, castrated.
Posted by: Cheri at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (oiNtH)
Leftists are just so enamored with letting the Murderous Islamic Hordes loose to run wild on all of us undesirables that they'll give in to anything Muhammad's Evil Brood wants.
Posted by: Hikaru at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (9TK8E)
324
298 How about The Declaration and The Bill of Fucking Rights?
Instead of berating me to; 'Visit the Goddamned Forest' and 'Feed the Pig!' or 'Don't Smoke in the House'
How about the Government's Foundation for Broadcasting (or NPR or whatever) actually broadcast, celibrate and ratify our Founding Principals.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (Aamv2)
Somebody needs a forest bathing.
Instead of berating me to; 'Visit the Goddamned Forest' and 'Feed the Pig!' or 'Don't Smoke in the House'
How about the Government's Foundation for Broadcasting (or NPR or whatever) actually broadcast, celibrate and ratify our Founding Principals.
Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2018 02:14 PM (Aamv2)
Somebody needs a forest bathing.
Posted by: flounderbot, rebel, vulgarian, deplorabot, winner at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (Dp6qK)
325
Kanye says a few conservative things and he's deemed insane. Bruce Jenner thinks he's a woman and he's deemed completely normal.
Posted by: NCKate at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (4ExqX)
326
I think the greatest and most important thing conservatives can do is to "re-normalize" the idea that heterosexual marriage and parenting is beneficial for society.
Every study I've ever read proves that kids raised in a heterosexual family setting do markedly better in just about any metric you care to measure. They're smarter, more mature and have less emotional problems. They break the law less and are not discipline problems. They get better grades and have more successful marriages and make more money in the long run.
This was once common knowledge, but the Ctrl-Left, dominating the public discourse like they do today, wants to make everyone think otherwise, which is provably false.
I think the greatest and most important thing conservatives can do is to "re-normalize" the idea that heterosexual marriage and parenting is beneficial for society.
Every study I've ever read proves that kids raised in a heterosexual family setting do markedly better in just about any metric you care to measure. They're smarter, more mature and have less emotional problems. They break the law less and are not discipline problems. They get better grades and have more successful marriages and make more money in the long run.
This was once common knowledge, but the Ctrl-Left, dominating the public discourse like they do today, wants to make everyone think otherwise, which is provably false.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy likes lobster at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (GdWl+)
327
Braveheart isn't about Scotland, really. It's about tyranny. Universal human experience
Its certainly not about history. Fun movie but... boy did his descendants take some liberties with the story.
Its certainly not about history. Fun movie but... boy did his descendants take some liberties with the story.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (39g3+)
328
If you encounter a fence in a field, before you tear it down,
Check if Father Brown's bicycle is leaning on it.
Check if Father Brown's bicycle is leaning on it.
Posted by: DaveA at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (FhXTo)
329
Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown.......
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (jail)
Because if a black man is not addicted to the democrat slavery/victimization ideology and thinks for himself, he must have something seriously wrong with his brain.
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 25, 2018 02:12 PM (jail)
Because if a black man is not addicted to the democrat slavery/victimization ideology and thinks for himself, he must have something seriously wrong with his brain.
Posted by: LASue at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (Z48ZB)
330
Fail.
Conservatism for ANY age is....
First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.
Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity.
Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription.
Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence.
Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety.
Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability.
Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked.
Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism.
Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions.
Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.
Add to this the Bible, the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence and you have the greatest bedrock for the most happiness, morality, justice, FREEDOM.
The premier virtue of the 'conservative' is PRUDENCE.
You hear that you pompous purist Ben Sasse?
Fail.
Conservatism for ANY age is....
First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.
Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity.
Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription.
Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence.
Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety.
Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability.
Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked.
Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism.
Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions.
Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.
Add to this the Bible, the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence and you have the greatest bedrock for the most happiness, morality, justice, FREEDOM.
The premier virtue of the 'conservative' is PRUDENCE.
You hear that you pompous purist Ben Sasse?
Posted by: Sapwolf at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (E/XIS)
331
Mel Gibson built half his career on hating the British, from Braveheart to The Patriot.
Not to mention...
Not to mention...
Posted by: Gallipoli at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (fuK7c)
332
>> I'm waiting to see what Taylor Swift thinks about this before commenting.
Meh, let's see what empress Beyoncé tweets about it....
Meh, let's see what empress Beyoncé tweets about it....
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (W+vEI)
333
I could have first, I could have been a contender
But I had yard stuff to do.
But I had yard stuff to do.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM (aC6Sd)
334
Just read in the side-bar the Maine Democrats voting against banning female genital mutilation in their state.
---
My follow up question: "And what is your opinion on spanking kids .....?"
---
My follow up question: "And what is your opinion on spanking kids .....?"
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM (8XRCm)
335
*lights candle for TJM's skull*
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM (hMwEB)
336
292 Actually, the sun is not big enough to supernova. It will become a red giant, and then a white dwarf."
I think it will eventually become a Red Dwarf, but only when cats have evolved to become fully sentient life forms.
I think it will eventually become a Red Dwarf, but only when cats have evolved to become fully sentient life forms.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM (k1TUh)
337
331 Mel Gibson built half his career on hating the British, from Braveheart to The Patriot.
Not to mention...
Posted by: Gallipoli at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (fuK7c)
=============
Dammit, Peter Weir!
Make another damn movie!
It's been 8 years!
Not to mention...
Posted by: Gallipoli at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (fuK7c)
=============
Dammit, Peter Weir!
Make another damn movie!
It's been 8 years!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM (9ZlHt)
338
119 I think people are misreading #5. Being a garbage truck driver or a plumber or a computer programmer are all socially useful things. He's just saying that capitalism is a better motivation than the alternative.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018
*
*
Yes -- saying that people should be paid, appropriately, for the socially useful work that they do. Not handed a living (*cough* EBT/welfare/Section 8 *cough*) just for having a pulse.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018
*
*
Yes -- saying that people should be paid, appropriately, for the socially useful work that they do. Not handed a living (*cough* EBT/welfare/Section 8 *cough*) just for having a pulse.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (Tgext)
339
They are good principles - with the codicil that all principles are not absolute and thus not to be taken to absurd results.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tater is the Latest Gender at the Outrage Outlet! at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (ycWCI)
341
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (39g3+)
IIRC , kilts had not been created and used during that period.
IIRC , kilts had not been created and used during that period.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (t8kZU)
342
They all( 12 points) sound good to me.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (aC6Sd)
343
Yes, that is quite something.
Posted by: Dirks Stewn DA 1977 at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (kfcYC)
344
As far as the family and society: Accept the assumptions of the Western tradition. Accept the wisdom of family life, gainful employment, and the wisdom of tradition. Teach children to respect their elders, work hard, and respect the sanctity of the family. Don't make changes for the sake of change.
As far as government: That government is best which governs least, but government has certain basic responsibilities that the people have the right to expect it to execute competently, chief among which is the securing of the borders and the implementation of justice.
Is that how you read it?
As far as government: That government is best which governs least, but government has certain basic responsibilities that the people have the right to expect it to execute competently, chief among which is the securing of the borders and the implementation of justice.
Is that how you read it?
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (RD7QR)
345
334 My follow up question: "And what is your opinion on spanking kids .....?"
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM (8XRCm)
Their answer : "What ethnicity is the parent?"
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM (8XRCm)
Their answer : "What ethnicity is the parent?"
Posted by: Hikaru at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (9TK8E)
346
I'd say those 12 points are pretty clear.
I wouldn't call them exclusive basis, but it's a fine foundation on the secular side. It's just, well, you can't just have a secular side. And I think that's pretty well borne out these days.
I wouldn't call them exclusive basis, but it's a fine foundation on the secular side. It's just, well, you can't just have a secular side. And I think that's pretty well borne out these days.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Abbot of St. Costello-on-the-Hurlingbone at April 25, 2018 02:19 PM (AM1GF)
347
UBI wouldn't work in real life.
But let's say you had a technical advance that made it workable, along the lines of the replicator in Star Trek.
Man's energy and competitive impulse won't just go away. All of it would simply be instantly focused on the other human endeavour, the one that isn't work.
War.
But let's say you had a technical advance that made it workable, along the lines of the replicator in Star Trek.
Man's energy and competitive impulse won't just go away. All of it would simply be instantly focused on the other human endeavour, the one that isn't work.
War.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (AzW6q)
348
I think people are misreading #5. Being a garbage truck driver or a plumber or a computer programmer are all socially useful things. He's just saying that capitalism is a better motivation than the alternative.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018
*
*
Yes -- saying that people should be paid, appropriately, for the socially useful work that they do. Not handed a living (*cough* EBT/welfare/Section 8 *cough*) just for having a pulse.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
Or a gender studies degree.
Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at April 25, 2018
*
*
Yes -- saying that people should be paid, appropriately, for the socially useful work that they do. Not handed a living (*cough* EBT/welfare/Section 8 *cough*) just for having a pulse.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
Or a gender studies degree.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (2ifxQ)
349
Eh, it's a little too mealy mouthed in places. I'd rather we stick with the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Posted by: Archer at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (gbWkA)
350
This is twaddle. It's off-hand meanderings. There is no core. You can read conservative values into it, but only if you try.
I think my principal problem with this list is that it's reactionary. It's a response to the things the left is trying to do today. This isn't a first principles statement so much as a set of agenda items moving forward.
I think my principal problem with this list is that it's reactionary. It's a response to the things the left is trying to do today. This isn't a first principles statement so much as a set of agenda items moving forward.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (iv0p7)
351
Apocalypto was every bit as good as Braveheart as entertainment IMHO.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (t8kZU)
352
Kanye stirring up more trouble.
And also I'm all the way out the sunken place. And I'm not scared anymore. I'm not scared of the media. I'm not scared of the past and I'm optimistic about the future. This tweet is in love not fear.
And also I'm all the way out the sunken place. And I'm not scared anymore. I'm not scared of the media. I'm not scared of the past and I'm optimistic about the future. This tweet is in love not fear.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (+y/Ru)
353
Mel Gibson built half his career on hating the British, from Braveheart to The Patriot.
Not to mention...
Posted by: Gallipoli at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (fuK7c)
He was also good in Breaker Morant.
Not to mention...
Posted by: Gallipoli at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (fuK7c)
He was also good in Breaker Morant.
Posted by: flounderbot, rebel, vulgarian, deplorabot, winner at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (Dp6qK)
354
325 Kanye says a few conservative things and he's deemed insane. Bruce Jenner thinks he's a woman and he's deemed completely normal.
Posted by: NCKate at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (4ExqX)
There's white privilege for ya.
Also so quotable
Permission to steal?
Posted by: NCKate at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM (4ExqX)
There's white privilege for ya.
Also so quotable
Permission to steal?
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (hMwEB)
355
>>Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown....
An Scott Adams is a pro-rape, alt-right, ultra-extreme right men's rights activist a$$hole. Or so the MSM has told me in the last 48 hours.
So don't listen to him.
In fact, don't even look at him.
No, really, pretend he's invisible.
Just...don't, OK?
An Scott Adams is a pro-rape, alt-right, ultra-extreme right men's rights activist a$$hole. Or so the MSM has told me in the last 48 hours.
So don't listen to him.
In fact, don't even look at him.
No, really, pretend he's invisible.
Just...don't, OK?
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (W+vEI)
356
How about Heinlein's Starship Trooper rule that only those who have served in the military have a right to vote?
I believe that is called a "military aristocracy."
Really bad idea when you actually start thinking about it.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (bZ7mE)
This! Is! Sparta!
I believe that is called a "military aristocracy."
Really bad idea when you actually start thinking about it.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (bZ7mE)
This! Is! Sparta!
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tater is the Latest Gender at the Outrage Outlet! at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (hLRSq)
357
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Posted by: Chris M at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (FGZtn)
358
Childless people don't tend to think in the long term. Families with children have to think about thier children's, children's future. Families with child tend to make better long term decisions.
Posted by: Bombercommand at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (YICfa)
359
Kanye says a few conservative things and he's deemed insane. Bruce Jenner thinks he's a woman and he's deemed completely normal.
Posted by: NCKate at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM
Crabs in a bucket. Amazing concept, to see it in real life is astounding. There is never a need to put a lid on a bucket of crabs. As one begins to escape the others continually pull the escapee back down.
There's never an escapee.
Posted by: NCKate at April 25, 2018 02:17 PM
Crabs in a bucket. Amazing concept, to see it in real life is astounding. There is never a need to put a lid on a bucket of crabs. As one begins to escape the others continually pull the escapee back down.
There's never an escapee.
Posted by: Forgot My Nic at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (LOgQ4)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (r+sAi)
361
Speaking of big brotherism... health care giant Keizer Permanente is running an ad where they present their "wholistic health care" as literally going into your house and taking away bad things. You're on the phone too late, we're taking your phone. You want a soft drink, we're taking it and replacing it with water. Its like a really creepy diet Nazi regime.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (39g3+)
362
>>>I might add that childless people are not allowed to hold office or vote. That would fix a lot of what ails us.<<<
interesting fact: not one single leader of the major EU powers has children.
interesting fact: not one single leader of the major EU powers has children.
Posted by: brak at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (VckGX)
363
Cris M is flurting with the barrel
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (aC6Sd)
364
The context of Peterson's talk (and the list) is, paraphrasing, "what conservatism has to offer young people."
So you need to consider the intended audience (and their generally leftist indoctrination) when viewing the list, I think.
So you need to consider the intended audience (and their generally leftist indoctrination) when viewing the list, I think.
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (953wK)
365
Man's energy and competitive impulse won't just go away. All of it would simply be instantly focused on the other human endeavour, the one that isn't work.
War.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (AzW6q)
You must've watched PBS last night.
War.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (AzW6q)
You must've watched PBS last night.
Posted by: BignJames at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (0+nbW)
366
Anything from Jordan Petersen is always something.
Posted by: sinalco at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (yODqO)
367
But let's say you had a technical advance that made it workable, along the lines of the replicator in Star Trek. "
Sci fi writers all the way back to Welles have made the argument that if humanity ever gets its hands on something like that, most of it will turn into the Eloi.
Sci fi writers all the way back to Welles have made the argument that if humanity ever gets its hands on something like that, most of it will turn into the Eloi.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (k1TUh)
368
366 Anything from Jordan Petersen is always something.
Posted by: sinalco at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (yODqO)
================
"You're telling me."
-JP's toilet after some Taco Bell
Posted by: sinalco at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (yODqO)
================
"You're telling me."
-JP's toilet after some Taco Bell
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (9ZlHt)
369
Now the story is Kayne West is addicted to opioids and may be having a nervous breakdown.......
----------
Good. Pissing him off will (perhaps) make him tougher.
----------
Good. Pissing him off will (perhaps) make him tougher.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (leCj4)
370
Anything from Jordan Petersen is always something.
-------------
I'd say its profound. Not new - just profound - and speaks to an audience that desperately needs to hear these things.
-------------
I'd say its profound. Not new - just profound - and speaks to an audience that desperately needs to hear these things.
Posted by: SH at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (sX1BW)
371
I think my principal problem with this list is that it's reactionary. It's a response to the things the left is trying to do today. This isn't a first principles statement so much as a set of agenda items moving forward.
Yes. That's better stated. I shall buy you a beer if the occasion arises.
Yes. That's better stated. I shall buy you a beer if the occasion arises.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (fuK7c)
372
Look, I don't see what part of "We're gonna have to break about 90 Million White Eggs to make this Utopian Omelette" y'all cracka-ass crackas don't understand.
Posted by: Congressional Black Caucus at April 25, 2018 02:24 PM (9TK8E)
Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at April 25, 2018 02:24 PM (H8QX8)
374
Cris M is flurting with the barrel
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (aC6Sd)
-----
I couldnt decide if those were hearts, two scooped ice cream cones, or a column of Roman Legionaries.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:22 PM (aC6Sd)
-----
I couldnt decide if those were hearts, two scooped ice cream cones, or a column of Roman Legionaries.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:24 PM (8XRCm)
375
Childless people don't tend to think in the long term. Families with children have to think about thier children's, children's future. Families with child tend to make better long term decisions.
Posted by: Bombercommand at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (YICfa)
Somehow its the opposite in my family. The ones with children are always in chaos.
Posted by: Bombercommand at April 25, 2018 02:21 PM (YICfa)
Somehow its the opposite in my family. The ones with children are always in chaos.
Posted by: Somewhere on Ventura Highway at April 25, 2018 02:24 PM (M+Lyo)
376
I could have first, I could have been a contender
But I had yard stuff to do.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM
Is that your story?
But I had yard stuff to do.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:18 PM
Is that your story?
Posted by: PornHub goes FaceBook at April 25, 2018 02:24 PM (LOgQ4)
377
since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
========
Oh but you are already helping them out, thanks to Uncle Sugar. So consider that duty as done.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2018 01:36 PM (9chmE)
========
Oh but you are already helping them out, thanks to Uncle Sugar. So consider that duty as done.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 25, 2018 02:25 PM (/qEW2)
378
367 But let's say you had a technical advance that made it workable, along the lines of the replicator in Star Trek. "
Sci fi writers all the way back to Welles have made the argument that if humanity ever gets its hands on something like that, most of it will turn into the Eloi.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (k1TUh)
=============
You still need to generate the power.
So there will be room for work, but yeah, most people probably won't need to work at all.
I always liked the idea of the Butlerian Jihad in the Dune books. The rebellion against thinking machines that did all the work creating a universe where thinking machines were illegal and the ban was actively enforced. Never read the Brian Herbert books, but I always liked the idea.
Sci fi writers all the way back to Welles have made the argument that if humanity ever gets its hands on something like that, most of it will turn into the Eloi.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (k1TUh)
=============
You still need to generate the power.
So there will be room for work, but yeah, most people probably won't need to work at all.
I always liked the idea of the Butlerian Jihad in the Dune books. The rebellion against thinking machines that did all the work creating a universe where thinking machines were illegal and the ban was actively enforced. Never read the Brian Herbert books, but I always liked the idea.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:25 PM (9ZlHt)
379
Kanye says a few conservative things and he's deemed insane. Bruce Jenner thinks he's a woman and he's deemed completely normal.
-
Don't judge Bruce until you've walked a mile in his high heels!
-
Don't judge Bruce until you've walked a mile in his high heels!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 25, 2018 02:25 PM (+y/Ru)
380
Apocalypto was amazing. That dude sprinted or fought for three straight hours.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at April 25, 2018 02:25 PM (oBJsb)
381
>>>Kanye says a few conservative things and he's deemed insane. Bruce Jenner thinks he's a woman and he's deemed completely normal.<<<
Now if we could only convince Kanye to convince his bitch to put some fucking clothes on. I frankly don't want to see any more of her big fat ass.
Now if we could only convince Kanye to convince his bitch to put some fucking clothes on. I frankly don't want to see any more of her big fat ass.
Posted by: Fritz at April 25, 2018 02:25 PM (2Mnv1)
382
Childless people don't tend to think in the long term. Families with children have to think about thier children's, children's future. Families with child tend to make better long term decisions.
Posted by: Bombercommand
Daddy: "Should I bang my secretary or not? Hell Yeah!"
Posted by: Bombercommand
Daddy: "Should I bang my secretary or not? Hell Yeah!"
Posted by: rickb223 at April 25, 2018 02:25 PM (2ifxQ)
383
349 Eh, it's a little too mealy mouthed in places. I'd rather we stick with the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Posted by: Archer at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (gbWkA)
This. One general impression I got from reading it: it seems to be an argument from weakness. A bit too much passive voice kind of thing.
It seems to be an argument whose chief idea is to not be seen as objectionable. In an overall argument on the merits of traditionalism/conservatism, it would not be out of place. However, alone it seems like weak tea.
Posted by: Archer at April 25, 2018 02:20 PM (gbWkA)
This. One general impression I got from reading it: it seems to be an argument from weakness. A bit too much passive voice kind of thing.
It seems to be an argument whose chief idea is to not be seen as objectionable. In an overall argument on the merits of traditionalism/conservatism, it would not be out of place. However, alone it seems like weak tea.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 25, 2018 02:26 PM (ycWCI)
384
351 Apocalypto was every bit as good as Braveheart as entertainment IMHO.
I was right in there with Apocalypto until the moment when our hero escapes during a solar eclipse and then that night, while he's being chased around the forest, his wife looks wistfully at the full moon, thinking of him.
I was right in there with Apocalypto until the moment when our hero escapes during a solar eclipse and then that night, while he's being chased around the forest, his wife looks wistfully at the full moon, thinking of him.
Posted by: Anachronda at April 25, 2018 02:26 PM (v3pYe)
385
370 Anything from Jordan Petersen is always something.
-------------
I'd say its profound. Not new - just profound - and speaks to an audience that desperately needs to hear these things.
Posted by: SH at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (sX1BW)
He has a 'pulpit'... and is saying the things many of us WANT to say...
-------------
I'd say its profound. Not new - just profound - and speaks to an audience that desperately needs to hear these things.
Posted by: SH at April 25, 2018 02:23 PM (sX1BW)
He has a 'pulpit'... and is saying the things many of us WANT to say...
Posted by: Don Q. at April 25, 2018 02:26 PM (NgKpN)
386
In regard to the franchise ---
It used to be that people who were on the government dole lost the vote for as long as they took the benefits. Even as late as the New Deal, welfare/handout bills felt the need to include a statement that recipients would not be denied the franchise.
I would limit the vote to taxpayers but also disenfranchise anyone who takes in more from the state than they cough up in taxes. This would not only clear the roles of leeches but also of government employees.
(You can make an exception for active duty military and for pensioners.)
The voting ban would only apply to the level of government from which you are sucking benefits. Thus, a federal employee would be able to vote in state and local elections but not federal ones. A welfare queen, who's getting benefits from the feds and state, could still vote in local elections. A public school teacher would vote in federal elections but not in state and local ones.
Yeah, too complicated --- but I still like it.
It used to be that people who were on the government dole lost the vote for as long as they took the benefits. Even as late as the New Deal, welfare/handout bills felt the need to include a statement that recipients would not be denied the franchise.
I would limit the vote to taxpayers but also disenfranchise anyone who takes in more from the state than they cough up in taxes. This would not only clear the roles of leeches but also of government employees.
(You can make an exception for active duty military and for pensioners.)
The voting ban would only apply to the level of government from which you are sucking benefits. Thus, a federal employee would be able to vote in state and local elections but not federal ones. A welfare queen, who's getting benefits from the feds and state, could still vote in local elections. A public school teacher would vote in federal elections but not in state and local ones.
Yeah, too complicated --- but I still like it.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 25, 2018 02:26 PM (0jtPF)
387
You know....this list will trigger some students.
But...we have an answer for that.
http://tinyurl.com/yahklwr4
But...we have an answer for that.
http://tinyurl.com/yahklwr4
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 25, 2018 02:26 PM (EyPfd)
388
Look, I don't see what part of "We're gonna have to break about 90 Million White Eggs to make this Utopian Omelette" y'all cracka-ass crackas don't understand.
Posted by: Congressional Black Caucus at April 25, 2018 02:24 PM (9TK8E)
And there is never an omelet when they are done.
Posted by: Congressional Black Caucus at April 25, 2018 02:24 PM (9TK8E)
And there is never an omelet when they are done.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tater is the Latest Gender at the Outrage Outlet! at April 25, 2018 02:26 PM (hLRSq)
389
358 - HUD projects, section 8 housing, and trailer parks around the country undermine this thesis.
Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (knDqF)
390
How about Heinlein's Starship Trooper rule that only those who have served in the military have a right to vote?
I believe that is called a "military aristocracy."
Really bad idea when you actually start thinking about it.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (bZ7mE)
My position is you have to have some skin in the game whether it be military, property owner or net Federal income tax payer. Allowing the takers to vote themselves benefits paid by others will eventually destroy any Republic.
I believe that is called a "military aristocracy."
Really bad idea when you actually start thinking about it.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:15 PM (bZ7mE)
My position is you have to have some skin in the game whether it be military, property owner or net Federal income tax payer. Allowing the takers to vote themselves benefits paid by others will eventually destroy any Republic.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (t8kZU)
391
I almost mentioned Gallipoli but its been so long I couldn't remember if the Brits or the Australians were responsible for the awful leadership
I think my principal problem with this list is that it's reactionary. It's a response to the things the left is trying to do today. This isn't a first principles statement so much as a set of agenda items moving forward.
I agree, its not so much foundational as it is responsive.
I think my principal problem with this list is that it's reactionary. It's a response to the things the left is trying to do today. This isn't a first principles statement so much as a set of agenda items moving forward.
I agree, its not so much foundational as it is responsive.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (39g3+)
392
I was right in there with Apocalypto until the moment when our hero escapes during a solar eclipse and then that night, while he's being chased around the forest, his wife looks wistfully at the full moon, thinking of him.
That is full-on Hordespergers. I approve.
That is full-on Hordespergers. I approve.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (fuK7c)
393
Things like that.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (39g3+)
...
Yes--I don't get the #5 bent on responsibilities over rights.
I think you start from natural rights. And if you start from natural rights, you cut directly through the nonsense of ever expanding protected classes and misuse of the 14th and so on.
I'm also genuinely not clear on what #7 is driving at--it seems like it could be used for good or ill.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:10 PM (39g3+)
...
Yes--I don't get the #5 bent on responsibilities over rights.
I think you start from natural rights. And if you start from natural rights, you cut directly through the nonsense of ever expanding protected classes and misuse of the 14th and so on.
I'm also genuinely not clear on what #7 is driving at--it seems like it could be used for good or ill.
Posted by: TexasDan at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (yL25O)
394
391 I almost mentioned Gallipoli but its been so long I couldn't remember if the Brits or the Australians were responsible for the awful leadership
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (39g3+)
=============
If I remember correctly, in actual history it was Australians. In the movie it was the British.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (39g3+)
=============
If I remember correctly, in actual history it was Australians. In the movie it was the British.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:28 PM (aFMSC)
395
derp--got 5 and 7 backwards in muh comment.
Posted by: TexasDan at April 25, 2018 02:28 PM (yL25O)
396
26 #8's a restatement of a principle with a fancy name that Ace has brought up before, wherein if you're changing something you'd better know why it is how it is first.
Posted by: Ian S.
It's also related to the Challenger Theorem--If you don't know what a button does, don't push it.
Too soon?
Posted by: Ian S.
It's also related to the Challenger Theorem--If you don't know what a button does, don't push it.
Too soon?
Posted by: Dirks Stewn DA 1977 at April 25, 2018 02:28 PM (kfcYC)
397
396 26 #8's a restatement of a principle with a fancy name that Ace has brought up before, wherein if you're changing something you'd better know why it is how it is first.
Posted by: Ian S.
It's also related to the Challenger Theorem--If you don't know what a button does, don't push it.
Too soon?
Posted by: Dirks Stewn DA 1977 at April 25, 2018 02:28 PM (kfcYC)
Chesterton's Fence is the usual argument, but have at it.
Posted by: Ian S.
It's also related to the Challenger Theorem--If you don't know what a button does, don't push it.
Too soon?
Posted by: Dirks Stewn DA 1977 at April 25, 2018 02:28 PM (kfcYC)
Chesterton's Fence is the usual argument, but have at it.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 25, 2018 02:29 PM (ycWCI)
398
Peterson is polishing the brass on the Titanic.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at April 25, 2018 02:29 PM (oBJsb)
399
Kanye's not even saying anything overtly conservative, he's just refusing to pile-on.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at April 25, 2018 02:29 PM (oVJmc)
Posted by: Anachronda at April 25, 2018 02:29 PM (v3pYe)
401
I do think I only started to be an adult emotionally when I had kids.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (hMwEB)
402
Peterson's 12 steps could be easily summarized in one:
1. The French Revolution was retarded bullshit.
1. The French Revolution was retarded bullshit.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (8gDQu)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (r+sAi)
404
358 Childless people don't tend to think in the long term. Families with children have to think about thier children's, children's future. Families with child tend to make better long term decisions."
To a certain extent - but I had an insight when trying to understand why historic middle Eastern Kingdoms and Empires, and the Far Eastern empires as well, universally employed Eunuchs as government officials for thousands of years, all the way from the ancient Persians to the Ottomans, as well as the Chinese. (it wasn't done in the west because Christianity greatly frowned on that kind of thing) The idea was that men with children would always be looking to advance the interests of their family, and if they rose high enough maybe even to found a dynasty. But men without children could only work for the future by applying their efforts to Government, in effect adopting the Ruler's family as their family, and putting all their efforts into supporting them.
It is a different, non-western way of looking at the issue, but one that has been held by many ancient societies.
* And since you can never trust a fully endowed man not to backslide, you can only ensure true loyalty by Cutting It Off. That's why they did it.
To a certain extent - but I had an insight when trying to understand why historic middle Eastern Kingdoms and Empires, and the Far Eastern empires as well, universally employed Eunuchs as government officials for thousands of years, all the way from the ancient Persians to the Ottomans, as well as the Chinese. (it wasn't done in the west because Christianity greatly frowned on that kind of thing) The idea was that men with children would always be looking to advance the interests of their family, and if they rose high enough maybe even to found a dynasty. But men without children could only work for the future by applying their efforts to Government, in effect adopting the Ruler's family as their family, and putting all their efforts into supporting them.
It is a different, non-western way of looking at the issue, but one that has been held by many ancient societies.
* And since you can never trust a fully endowed man not to backslide, you can only ensure true loyalty by Cutting It Off. That's why they did it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (k1TUh)
405
Not sure about number 8...could be taken many ways.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (IwTu8)
406
402 Peterson's 12 steps could be easily summarized in one:
1. The French Revolution was retarded bullshit.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (8gDQu)
==============
"What's that?"
-Everyone currently in school
1. The French Revolution was retarded bullshit.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (8gDQu)
==============
"What's that?"
-Everyone currently in school
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (aFMSC)
407
I shall buy you a beer if the occasion arises.
Cheers. No beer for me though, I'm one of those Mormon guys.
Cheers. No beer for me though, I'm one of those Mormon guys.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (iv0p7)
408
I think my principal problem with this list is that it's
reactionary. It's a response to the things the left is trying to do
today. This isn't a first principles statement so much as a set of
agenda items moving forward.
I agree, its not so much foundational as it is responsive.
=====
Foundational -- 10 Commandments. Agreed Judaeo-Christian rules.
I think my principal problem with this list is that it's
reactionary. It's a response to the things the left is trying to do
today. This isn't a first principles statement so much as a set of
agenda items moving forward.
I agree, its not so much foundational as it is responsive.
=====
Foundational -- 10 Commandments. Agreed Judaeo-Christian rules.
Posted by: mustbequantum at April 25, 2018 02:31 PM (MIKMs)
409
Churchill had a lot to do with that planning at Galipoli, almost sunk him. Maybe being in a large group of bad planners had something to do with it.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:31 PM (aC6Sd)
410
The Monkey on Drudge dressed as a white chick and begging looks a lot like Amy Schumer.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:31 PM (2LelM)
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:31 PM (iv0p7)
412
What's a principle?
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 25, 2018 02:31 PM (xfb67)
413
My position is you have to have some skin in the game whether it be military, property owner or net Federal income tax payer.
I agree completely. And before anyone cries "second class citizen" or "elitism" everyone in a capitalistic democracy has the freedom and opportunity to become any of those groups. If they try. There's no exclusion here other than what you impose upon yourself.
I agree completely. And before anyone cries "second class citizen" or "elitism" everyone in a capitalistic democracy has the freedom and opportunity to become any of those groups. If they try. There's no exclusion here other than what you impose upon yourself.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:32 PM (39g3+)
414
The French Revolution was retarded bullshit.
"What's that?"
-Everyone currently in school
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (aFMSC)
------
It's when the Beatles came to America on sailboats and started Rock and Roll.
"What's that?"
-Everyone currently in school
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (aFMSC)
------
It's when the Beatles came to America on sailboats and started Rock and Roll.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:32 PM (8XRCm)
415
"What's that?"
-Everyone currently in school
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (aFMSC)
...
It was that other historical musical before Hanover or whatever.
-Everyone currently in school
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (aFMSC)
...
It was that other historical musical before Hanover or whatever.
Posted by: TexasDan at April 25, 2018 02:32 PM (yL25O)
416
394 - I think Churchill, before he was prime minister, played a significant role in planning the Gallipoli landing.
Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at April 25, 2018 02:32 PM (knDqF)
417
The list kind of reminds me of the Mike Rowe list. I hope you all know what I'm talking about.
That one was directed solely at individual behavior and was all about making the best of your situation and working hard. This one still seems directed at the individual, mostly, but relies on definitions that are too undefined for any sort of use without a glossary attached.
That one was directed solely at individual behavior and was all about making the best of your situation and working hard. This one still seems directed at the individual, mostly, but relies on definitions that are too undefined for any sort of use without a glossary attached.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:32 PM (aFMSC)
418
No beer for me though, I'm one of those Mormon guys.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (iv0p7)
----
Fine. I'll buy you two.
Posted by: bonhomme at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (iv0p7)
----
Fine. I'll buy you two.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:32 PM (8XRCm)
419
The French Revolution gave us Equally as a battle cry, still sounded by Hillary and Sanders.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:33 PM (aC6Sd)
420
Having skin in the game could also be argued as taxation. The way our current system works, a lot of people do not pay taxes, so it becomes the standard argument about democracies: two wolves and a lamb deciding who to have for dinner.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 25, 2018 02:33 PM (ycWCI)
421
Churchill had a lot to do with that planning at Galipoli, almost sunk him.
He made a couple of extremely bad, costly errors in his time which is partly why people viewed him askance as a leader. But when the time was right, he definitely stepped up.
He made a couple of extremely bad, costly errors in his time which is partly why people viewed him askance as a leader. But when the time was right, he definitely stepped up.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:33 PM (39g3+)
422
nah, there are God given natural rights whether there is responsibility or not.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (r+sAi)
They *are* God given, but a man (or government) with guns can surely try to take them away. Tose God given rights must be defended.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (r+sAi)
They *are* God given, but a man (or government) with guns can surely try to take them away. Tose God given rights must be defended.
Posted by: DR.WTF? at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (T71PA)
423
>>Peterson's 12 steps could be easily summarized in one:
1. The French Revolution was retarded bullshit.
Naw, bro, not when he has to include #1 as his starting point: an agreement that foundational assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
1. The French Revolution was retarded bullshit.
Naw, bro, not when he has to include #1 as his starting point: an agreement that foundational assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (W+vEI)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (r+sAi)
425
419 The French Revolution gave us Equally as a battle cry, still sounded by Hillary and Sanders.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:33 PM (aC6Sd)
===========
I once read a Marxist who defended Robespierre's purging of the Vendee, going so far as to say that he didn't do enough and should have gone further.
Just think, that person is still alive and trying to influence younger minds.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:33 PM (aC6Sd)
===========
I once read a Marxist who defended Robespierre's purging of the Vendee, going so far as to say that he didn't do enough and should have gone further.
Just think, that person is still alive and trying to influence younger minds.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (aFMSC)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (+y/Ru)
427
424
Well, how long does a solar eclipse last?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (r+sAi)
Depends on the movie.
Well, how long does a solar eclipse last?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (r+sAi)
Depends on the movie.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (oBJsb)
428
It's kind of a sad commentary on America that millions of PornHub viewers can trust them not to sell their data, while FaceBook has proven they can not be trusted.
* laughs *
It's kind of a sad commentary on America that millions of PornHub viewers can trust them not to sell their data, while FaceBook has proven they can not be trusted.
* laughs *
Posted by: PornHub goes FaceBook at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (LOgQ4)
429
My position is you have to have some skin in the game whether it be military, property owner or net Federal income tax payer. Allowing the takers to vote themselves benefits paid by others will eventually destroy any Republic.
My position is that anyone who resides in the country and isn't a foreigner who can just move back to their own country quite literally has skin in the game - the skin is wrapped around a body that is physically in the country for which the rules are being decided. Any restriction of the franchise to anything but "law-abiding citizen" creates an underclass which can and inevitably will be exploited.
My position is that anyone who resides in the country and isn't a foreigner who can just move back to their own country quite literally has skin in the game - the skin is wrapped around a body that is physically in the country for which the rules are being decided. Any restriction of the franchise to anything but "law-abiding citizen" creates an underclass which can and inevitably will be exploited.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (bZ7mE)
430
Well, how long does a solar eclipse last?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (r+sAi)
-----
On which planet??
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (r+sAi)
-----
On which planet??
Posted by: fixerupper at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (8XRCm)
431
I once read a Marxist who defended Robespierre's purging of the Vendee, going so far as to say that he didn't do enough and should have gone further.
Just think, that person is still alive and trying to influence younger minds.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (aFMSC)
Robespierre is kind of the defining example of just desserts.
Just think, that person is still alive and trying to influence younger minds.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (aFMSC)
Robespierre is kind of the defining example of just desserts.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (ycWCI)
432
390---My position is you have to have some skin in the game whether it be military, property owner or net Federal income tax payer. Allowing the takers to vote themselves benefits paid by others will eventually destroy any Republic.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (t8kZU)
---------------------------
THIS.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (t8kZU)
---------------------------
THIS.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (0jtPF)
433
Speaking of Gallipoli, today is ANZAC Day.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (7HtZB)
434
Tose God given rights must be defended. <<<<<
but it doesn't mean they aren't rights anymore, it means they were violated.
but it doesn't mean they aren't rights anymore, it means they were violated.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (r+sAi)
435
If I remember correctly, in actual history it was Australians. In the movie it was the British."
Gallipoli was one of the great early disasters of Winston Churchill's career. He was a good politician, but a rather poor military strategist. On the other hand, Winston always maintained that if the Navy would have attacked quickly, and if the troops had been put into action as soon as they were deployed they could have hit the Turks before they prepared their defensive positions and overrun them. He may have been correct.
As it was, the British landed the troops on the peninsula and then sat around for weeks waiting for the Turks to build and fortify their defensive lines before they ever got around to attacking them.
Gallipoli was one of the great early disasters of Winston Churchill's career. He was a good politician, but a rather poor military strategist. On the other hand, Winston always maintained that if the Navy would have attacked quickly, and if the troops had been put into action as soon as they were deployed they could have hit the Turks before they prepared their defensive positions and overrun them. He may have been correct.
As it was, the British landed the troops on the peninsula and then sat around for weeks waiting for the Turks to build and fortify their defensive lines before they ever got around to attacking them.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (k1TUh)
436
was right in there with Apocalypto until the moment when our hero escapes during a solar eclipse and then that night, while he's being chased around the forest, his wife looks wistfully at the full moon, thinking of him.
That is full-on Hordespergers. I approve.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (fuK7c)
But that was a new new moon that was visible back then when there wasn't any global warming.
That is full-on Hordespergers. I approve.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:27 PM (fuK7c)
But that was a new new moon that was visible back then when there wasn't any global warming.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (t8kZU)
437
From Breitbart: Kanye 2024 posters are popping up around the country.
ROFLMAO.
Culture-jamming: The Next Generation.
ROFLMAO.
Culture-jamming: The Next Generation.
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (953wK)
438
Naw, bro, not when he has to include #1 as his starting point: an agreement that foundational assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (W+vEI)
The primary impetus of the French Revolution was that the foundational assumptions of Western Civilization were all wrong.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (W+vEI)
The primary impetus of the French Revolution was that the foundational assumptions of Western Civilization were all wrong.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (8gDQu)
439
I think Churchill, before he was prime minister, played a significant role in planning the Gallipoli landing.
He was First Lord of the Admiralty and his plan was to "force the Dardanelles" to get into the Black Sea and have access to the hind end of the Hun.
He gets blamed, but he was not involved in the on the ground logistics of how everything at Gallipoli got sideways fucked.
That was, as far as I understand it, every bit the old British officer corps thinking that the Mel Gibson movie portrays.
He was First Lord of the Admiralty and his plan was to "force the Dardanelles" to get into the Black Sea and have access to the hind end of the Hun.
He gets blamed, but he was not involved in the on the ground logistics of how everything at Gallipoli got sideways fucked.
That was, as far as I understand it, every bit the old British officer corps thinking that the Mel Gibson movie portrays.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (fuK7c)
440
401 I do think I only started to be an adult emotionally when I had kids.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (hMwEB)
Maybe not "an adult," but certainly a differently thinking adult.
Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 25, 2018 02:30 PM (hMwEB)
Maybe not "an adult," but certainly a differently thinking adult.
Posted by: flounderbot, rebel, vulgarian, deplorabot, winner at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (Dp6qK)
441
Kanye 2024: Keep America Great
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (953wK)
442
They *are* God given, but a man (or government) with guns can surely try to take them away. Tose God given rights must be defended.
No one can remove your rights, but they can make it impossible for you to freely exercise them. You still have the inalienable, innate right to liberty while in solitary confinement. You just can't exercise it very much. Rights as proper rights are such an intrinsic part of being human that they cannot be removed.
Legal rights can be removed, like the legal right to vote, or drive, or control a company. government can grant these small 'r' "rights" and take them away.
No one can remove your rights, but they can make it impossible for you to freely exercise them. You still have the inalienable, innate right to liberty while in solitary confinement. You just can't exercise it very much. Rights as proper rights are such an intrinsic part of being human that they cannot be removed.
Legal rights can be removed, like the legal right to vote, or drive, or control a company. government can grant these small 'r' "rights" and take them away.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (39g3+)
443
419 The French Revolution gave us Equally as a battle cry, still sounded by Hillary and Sanders.
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:33 PM (aC6Sd)
Are you sure it didn't give us "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" as a battle cry instead?
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2018 02:33 PM (aC6Sd)
Are you sure it didn't give us "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" as a battle cry instead?
Posted by: Congressional Black Caucus at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (9TK8E)
444
"6. Citizens have the inalienable right to benefit from the result of their own honest labor. "
To which I would add: "... and good fortune."
If I pick stocks carefully, or find a $100 bill on the sidewalk, or for that matter, win Powerball, the state has no more of a moral claim on the results of my good fortune than it does on the fruits of my labor.
To which I would add: "... and good fortune."
If I pick stocks carefully, or find a $100 bill on the sidewalk, or for that matter, win Powerball, the state has no more of a moral claim on the results of my good fortune than it does on the fruits of my labor.
Posted by: Occasional Reader at April 25, 2018 02:37 PM (/9ska)
445
. As one begins to escape the others continually pull the escapee back down.
Except it doesn't have anything to do with escape. It's 2 behaviors interacting.
1. Climb over everything.
2. If it's not molting season spread out.
Except it doesn't have anything to do with escape. It's 2 behaviors interacting.
1. Climb over everything.
2. If it's not molting season spread out.
Posted by: DaveA at April 25, 2018 02:37 PM (FhXTo)
446
My position is that anyone who resides in the country and isn't a foreigner who can just move back to their own country quite literally has skin in the game - the skin is wrapped around a body that is physically in the country for which the rules are being decided. Any restriction of the franchise to anything but "law-abiding citizen" creates an underclass which can and inevitably will be exploited.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (bZ7mE)
Valid. However, take the argument one step further, 'everyone is equal under the law' throws a wrench in a whole lot of progressive schemes. Taxes, protected classes, favored classes, bureaucrats, etc are all now no longer equal under the law.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (bZ7mE)
Valid. However, take the argument one step further, 'everyone is equal under the law' throws a wrench in a whole lot of progressive schemes. Taxes, protected classes, favored classes, bureaucrats, etc are all now no longer equal under the law.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (ycWCI)
447
438 Naw, bro, not when he has to include #1 as his starting point: an agreement that foundational assumptions of Western civilization are valid.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (W+vEI)
The primary impetus of the French Revolution was that the foundational assumptions of Western Civilization were all wrong.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (8gDQu)
======
And we'll replace it with #SCIENCE!!!
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:34 PM (W+vEI)
The primary impetus of the French Revolution was that the foundational assumptions of Western Civilization were all wrong.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (8gDQu)
======
And we'll replace it with #SCIENCE!!!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (aFMSC)
Posted by: motionview at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (pYQR/)
449
Nood travel "ban."
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (953wK)
450
How about Heinlein's Starship Trooper rule that only those who have served in the military have a right to vote?
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (2LelM)
Except it wasn't just military service, it was *any* service. So the Kennedy kids and the Biden kids
"serve" as Congressional pages, while the Palin kids and the Trump kids are sent to the front lines.
Posted by: Gumby at April 25, 2018 02:08 PM (2LelM)
Except it wasn't just military service, it was *any* service. So the Kennedy kids and the Biden kids
"serve" as Congressional pages, while the Palin kids and the Trump kids are sent to the front lines.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (Tnhbr)
451
Also, if having children is so essential to longlasting institutions, someone's going to need to explain the longevity of the Catholic Church as an administrative enterprise. Shouldn't it have collapsed long ago or been transformed into something else? Something run by those ever so far-sighted parents?
Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (knDqF)
452
As it was, the British landed the troops on the peninsula and then sat around for weeks waiting for the Turks to build and fortify their defensive lines before they ever got around to attacking them.
"This is my kind of military planning!"
--George Bush, giving the Iraqis a very specific exact hour and day of attack.
My position is that anyone who resides in the country and isn't a foreigner who can just move back to their own country quite literally has skin in the game
And your position is wrong, when it comes to a Republic.
"This is my kind of military planning!"
--George Bush, giving the Iraqis a very specific exact hour and day of attack.
My position is that anyone who resides in the country and isn't a foreigner who can just move back to their own country quite literally has skin in the game
And your position is wrong, when it comes to a Republic.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (39g3+)
453
The leftists will read No. 1 and their heads will immediately explode.
"See!!! I told you Peterson is an Alt-right Nazi!"
"See!!! I told you Peterson is an Alt-right Nazi!"
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V. at April 25, 2018 02:39 PM (H80UQ)
454
I once read a Marxist who defended Robespierre's purging of the Vendee, going so far as to say that he didn't do enough and should have gone further. "
Wow - although not widely known today, that's credited as being the first great government sponsored genocide of the modern era. The French really don't like to talk about it, especially if anyone is uncouth enough to point out that Hitler got his population control ideas from them.
Wow - although not widely known today, that's credited as being the first great government sponsored genocide of the modern era. The French really don't like to talk about it, especially if anyone is uncouth enough to point out that Hitler got his population control ideas from them.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 25, 2018 02:39 PM (k1TUh)
455
448 Missing the success formula:
1) Finish school
2) Get married
3) Have Children
in that order.
Posted by: motionview at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (pYQR/)
============
I read that as Finnish School.
"Well, I'm screwed."
1) Finish school
2) Get married
3) Have Children
in that order.
Posted by: motionview at April 25, 2018 02:38 PM (pYQR/)
============
I read that as Finnish School.
"Well, I'm screwed."
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 25, 2018 02:39 PM (aFMSC)
456
I think we are going to have to address social isolation and a culture of consumers, rather than creators. Tech has left us isolated from each other and we no longer have a shared culture. People enjoy creating, but that impulse is routed towards consumption. (I'm thinking about music and home arts here.)
And really, we need to insist that tv and movies portray having children as a good thing. When I saw an episode of Elementary where Watson is interacting with a baby, I realized that scenes like that have been purged from tv for the most part.
And really, we need to insist that tv and movies portray having children as a good thing. When I saw an episode of Elementary where Watson is interacting with a baby, I realized that scenes like that have been purged from tv for the most part.
Posted by: notsothoreau at April 25, 2018 02:39 PM (5HBd1)
457
Travel NOOD.
Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2018 02:39 PM (q177U)
458
Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Going over the top is the most insane thing I can imagine.
Going over the top is the most insane thing I can imagine.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:39 PM (t8kZU)
459
439 I think Churchill, before he was prime minister, played a significant role in planning the Gallipoli landing.
He was First Lord of the Admiralty and his plan was to "force the Dardanelles" to get into the Black Sea and have access to the hind end of the Hun.
He gets blamed, but he was not involved in the on the ground logistics of how everything at Gallipoli got sideways fucked.
That was, as far as I understand it, every bit the old British officer corps thinking that the Mel Gibson movie portrays.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (fuK7c)
True. The original plan was for a naval / air bombardment of the Dardenelles, but that didn't work out, so then troops were landed. Which also didn't work out.
He was First Lord of the Admiralty and his plan was to "force the Dardanelles" to get into the Black Sea and have access to the hind end of the Hun.
He gets blamed, but he was not involved in the on the ground logistics of how everything at Gallipoli got sideways fucked.
That was, as far as I understand it, every bit the old British officer corps thinking that the Mel Gibson movie portrays.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:36 PM (fuK7c)
True. The original plan was for a naval / air bombardment of the Dardenelles, but that didn't work out, so then troops were landed. Which also didn't work out.
Posted by: josephistan at April 25, 2018 02:40 PM (7HtZB)
460
Re: #7. What if conservatives teach their children about responsibilities but not about rights?
The left will constantly assert their "rights" such as their right to free contraception and their right to make you bake gay cakes and the right to stop you from speaking freely and the right to get your ill baby medical treatment.
If you object to that they will yell at you "I can't believe how selfish you are! Always concerned about your rights! Stop whining! Stop complaining and oppressing us!"
I think that in an ideal world, yes, people should be thinking more of responsibilities. But at this stage in the game that would be self defeating. It would allow the left to win, in which case things will be worse off for *everybody*. The emphasis should be on children being given a robust sense of their rights. Life, liberty, property. Otherwise, the left will play you for a sucker, as they have for decades.
The left will constantly assert their "rights" such as their right to free contraception and their right to make you bake gay cakes and the right to stop you from speaking freely and the right to get your ill baby medical treatment.
If you object to that they will yell at you "I can't believe how selfish you are! Always concerned about your rights! Stop whining! Stop complaining and oppressing us!"
I think that in an ideal world, yes, people should be thinking more of responsibilities. But at this stage in the game that would be self defeating. It would allow the left to win, in which case things will be worse off for *everybody*. The emphasis should be on children being given a robust sense of their rights. Life, liberty, property. Otherwise, the left will play you for a sucker, as they have for decades.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 25, 2018 02:40 PM (/qEW2)
461
Yes, this is something. This is an excellent start. Let us all agree that, at its base, almost all, if not all (with some tweaking), of these principals are sound and, more importantly, are a robust expression of conservatism in, as Thomas Jefferson* once said, "terms so simple as to command their assent."
I would say - let;'s broadcast these far and wide . The reaction of the slimy leftist communist cabal against such common sense items such as "the fundamental assumptions of Western Civilization are valid" or "borders are reasonable" will be a delight to watch as they shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly trying to argue against them.
*Jefferson was an amoral d*ckhead, and not half as smart as many of his admirers, but I do love many of his pithy quotes.
I would say - let;'s broadcast these far and wide . The reaction of the slimy leftist communist cabal against such common sense items such as "the fundamental assumptions of Western Civilization are valid" or "borders are reasonable" will be a delight to watch as they shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly trying to argue against them.
*Jefferson was an amoral d*ckhead, and not half as smart as many of his admirers, but I do love many of his pithy quotes.
Posted by: Publius Redux at April 25, 2018 02:41 PM (Fb9aZ)
Posted by: filbert at April 25, 2018 02:41 PM (953wK)
463
The left will constantly assert their "rights" such as their right to free contraception and their right to make you bake gay cakes and the right to stop you from speaking freely and the right to get your ill baby medical treatment.
That's not a problem with rights, its a problem with not understanding them. Properly understood, rights necessarily result in responsibilities and are limited to specific, exact things, not "what I wish you'd give me."
Its a lack of understanding rights that leads to "right of free health care," not their emphasis or teaching.
That's not a problem with rights, its a problem with not understanding them. Properly understood, rights necessarily result in responsibilities and are limited to specific, exact things, not "what I wish you'd give me."
Its a lack of understanding rights that leads to "right of free health care," not their emphasis or teaching.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 25, 2018 02:42 PM (39g3+)
464
Re: Churchill and Gallipoli: "He was First Lord of the Admiralty and his plan was to "force the Dardanelles" to get into the Black Sea and have access to the hind end of the Hun.
He gets blamed, but he was not involved in the on the ground logistics of how everything at Gallipoli got sideways fucked. "
Yes, that's my recollection. He also resigned IIRC after the naval expedition failed. In my view, the naval expedition was not a bad idea, in terms of military strategy; it simply... didn't work. I'd say a similar thing about Market Garden.
He gets blamed, but he was not involved in the on the ground logistics of how everything at Gallipoli got sideways fucked. "
Yes, that's my recollection. He also resigned IIRC after the naval expedition failed. In my view, the naval expedition was not a bad idea, in terms of military strategy; it simply... didn't work. I'd say a similar thing about Market Garden.
Posted by: Occasional Reader at April 25, 2018 02:43 PM (/9ska)
465
429----Any restriction of the franchise to anything but "law-abiding citizen" creates an underclass which can and inevitably will be exploited.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (bZ7mE)
------------------------------------
We have an underclass NOW that can and is being exploited. Badly exploited. That's the irony.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (bZ7mE)
------------------------------------
We have an underclass NOW that can and is being exploited. Badly exploited. That's the irony.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 25, 2018 02:43 PM (0jtPF)
466
377 since we have many many many non-two parent families raising children, how about we do what we can to help them out, rather than just telling them they're doing it wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC
Ok, arranged marriages are a good solution
Posted by: BurtTC
Ok, arranged marriages are a good solution
Posted by: Jean at April 25, 2018 02:43 PM (MS0+a)
467
He's my Sweet Babboo and I'm his Babbooette.
Posted by: Sally Brown at April 25, 2018 02:44 PM (feFsi)
468
Any restriction of the franchise to anything but "law-abiding citizen" creates an underclass which can and inevitably will be exploited.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (bZ7mE)
That's not what the founders believed.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 25, 2018 02:35 PM (bZ7mE)
That's not what the founders believed.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 25, 2018 02:44 PM (t8kZU)
469
By the way - I hear everyone on number 7 - but the point is not that people should not be taught that they have inalienable God given rights, but that the modern focus of teaching everyone about their "rights" and not teaching them any responsibility is a major problem - with which I agree. Perhaps if #7 started off with a preamble on inalienable God given rights and them moved on to an expression that simply teaching people that they have rights without teaching them the responsible exercise of those rights is a mistake.
Posted by: Publius Redux at April 25, 2018 02:46 PM (Fb9aZ)
470
it simply... didn't work. I'd say a similar thing about Market Garden.
Yes. Some good ideas don't work. I'd fight with you about Market Garden except that (a) there's a nood, and (ii) I am irrational about hating Montgomery so I can't have rational discussions.
Yes. Some good ideas don't work. I'd fight with you about Market Garden except that (a) there's a nood, and (ii) I am irrational about hating Montgomery so I can't have rational discussions.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 25, 2018 02:46 PM (fuK7c)
471
I think Churchill, before he was prime minister, played a significant role in planning the Gallipoli landing.
-
Churchill twice advocated out flanking the enemy by amphibious landings and both were absolute disasters. The first was Gallipoli and the second was the invasion of Norway in 1940. Ironically, it was the failure of the Norway campaign that allowed Churchill the prime ministry because the failure was blamed on Chamberlain forcing him from office. Churchill also proposed a landing behind German lines in Belgium during WWI but that suicidal gesture never occurred.
-
Churchill twice advocated out flanking the enemy by amphibious landings and both were absolute disasters. The first was Gallipoli and the second was the invasion of Norway in 1940. Ironically, it was the failure of the Norway campaign that allowed Churchill the prime ministry because the failure was blamed on Chamberlain forcing him from office. Churchill also proposed a landing behind German lines in Belgium during WWI but that suicidal gesture never occurred.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 25, 2018 02:46 PM (+y/Ru)
472
ANZAC Day. Used to be a righteous party at one place I worked - Australian owner.
Speaking of Gallipoli, thinking my next WWII binge will be the Italian campaign. Anzio and other aspects of that campaign seem like they may have been the most incompetently prosecuted parts of the war, on the Allied side (leaving aside the eastern front, where "hmm, let's try this and see what happens!" with the lives of 100s of 1,000s of Soviet soldiers' lives was a thing with the Stavka).
Speaking of Gallipoli, thinking my next WWII binge will be the Italian campaign. Anzio and other aspects of that campaign seem like they may have been the most incompetently prosecuted parts of the war, on the Allied side (leaving aside the eastern front, where "hmm, let's try this and see what happens!" with the lives of 100s of 1,000s of Soviet soldiers' lives was a thing with the Stavka).
Posted by: rhomboid at April 25, 2018 02:47 PM (QDnY+)
473
"The original plan was for a naval / air bombardment of the Dardenelles"
More specifically; to "force" the straits with a British fleet, that would then appear off the coast of Istanbul, and threaten bombardment unless Turkey withdrew from the war. Like I said, not necessarily a bad idea; there just turned out to be a few too many mines in the straits. (The fleet actually did an effective job silencing the Turkish guns that guarded the straits, IIRC; it was the mines that were the killer.)
More specifically; to "force" the straits with a British fleet, that would then appear off the coast of Istanbul, and threaten bombardment unless Turkey withdrew from the war. Like I said, not necessarily a bad idea; there just turned out to be a few too many mines in the straits. (The fleet actually did an effective job silencing the Turkish guns that guarded the straits, IIRC; it was the mines that were the killer.)
Posted by: Occasional Reader at April 25, 2018 02:47 PM (/9ska)
474
People have said Peterson is being too vague. I think his problem is that he is not really interested in politics or ideologies. He wants individuals to feel their lives have meaning. He recognizes that meaninglessness has prevaded Western civilization and that the danger is people have substituted politics for religion in a quest to make their lives mean something. Such a substitution leads to totalitarianism.
He's political only insofar as the left has made EVERYTHING political. Given his own devices, I think he'd much rather talk about Dostoevsky or Jungian archetypes - but he's famous because of the left's stupid politicization of "xer" "ze" and whatever.
He's not trying to rewrite the Constitution (and he's not American anyway). He's just trying to come up with basic principles for Western Civ - not just America.
He's political only insofar as the left has made EVERYTHING political. Given his own devices, I think he'd much rather talk about Dostoevsky or Jungian archetypes - but he's famous because of the left's stupid politicization of "xer" "ze" and whatever.
He's not trying to rewrite the Constitution (and he's not American anyway). He's just trying to come up with basic principles for Western Civ - not just America.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V. at April 25, 2018 02:48 PM (H80UQ)
475
>>The primary impetus of the French Revolution was that the foundational assumptions of Western Civilization were all wrong.
Ooops.
*hades face in shame*
Ooops.
*hades face in shame*
Posted by: Lizzy at April 25, 2018 02:48 PM (W+vEI)
476
I'll attend his lecture when he comes to my town. I've been listening to all of them via podcast or video streaming. I'm not a young man, nor uneducated, yet I've learned a lot of wisdom from him.
Posted by: theCork at April 25, 2018 02:51 PM (hbAdE)
477
I am sure someone feels that is racist, sexist, homophobic and anti-semitic.
JP thinks well, but the electorate feels. Meme magic is real.
JP thinks well, but the electorate feels. Meme magic is real.
Posted by: Rather Not at April 25, 2018 02:59 PM (oPogG)
478
What sin, for example only exists in itself outside of real world considerations and potential consequences
The first three commandments of the Decalogue.
But I do know what you mean: sin and morality has practical, real-world consequences. The problem is sometimes, perhaps often, those consequences are so delayed or so easily rationalized away that they can seem to be meaningless.
******
Delurking and late as usual. I just wanted to point out that ignoring the first three commandments actually does have real world consequences. The first three commandments are about the sacred, about keeping something special that is above the self, and setting aside specific time to honor that.
I think it is readily apparent how the degradation and discarding of the sacred and our duty to it has turned many people even into narcissistic monsters and really screwed up the underpinnings of our society.
The first three commandments of the Decalogue.
But I do know what you mean: sin and morality has practical, real-world consequences. The problem is sometimes, perhaps often, those consequences are so delayed or so easily rationalized away that they can seem to be meaningless.
******
Delurking and late as usual. I just wanted to point out that ignoring the first three commandments actually does have real world consequences. The first three commandments are about the sacred, about keeping something special that is above the self, and setting aside specific time to honor that.
I think it is readily apparent how the degradation and discarding of the sacred and our duty to it has turned many people even into narcissistic monsters and really screwed up the underpinnings of our society.
Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at April 25, 2018 03:02 PM (Ajsny)
479
Looks like JP is acknowledging that all social contracts have been burned, scattered, the earth salted. As somebody said above, he is polishing the brass to the Titanic.
Posted by: Monk at April 25, 2018 03:21 PM (573j3)
480
He's not trying to rewrite the Constitution (and he's not American anyway). He's just trying to come up with basic principles for Western Civ - not just America.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V. at April 25, 2018 02:48 PM (H80UQ)
Well said, and I agree. Peterson is not political and yes, would rather be both talking about Jung and mapping out ways to bring meaning into one's life.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V. at April 25, 2018 02:48 PM (H80UQ)
Well said, and I agree. Peterson is not political and yes, would rather be both talking about Jung and mapping out ways to bring meaning into one's life.
Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at April 25, 2018 03:23 PM (H8QX8)
481
The Cliff Notes of Catholic Thought 105
Posted by: Deep Thought at April 25, 2018 03:32 PM (+kRlg)
482
IMO we go a LONG way if we bring back the concept of Election DAY. Not this Election Season bullshit that seems to get longer & longer.
Posted by: Dark Helmet at April 25, 2018 03:48 PM (UK49G)
483
It is more noble to teach young people about responsibilities than abut rights.
It's not a choice between one or the other. What you have here is a false dichotomy.
It's not a choice between one or the other. What you have here is a false dichotomy.
Posted by: boure at April 25, 2018 04:32 PM (KXQr+)
484
I recently received an email on my work gmail from democrat.com, or some such variant, asking me to check the boxes of my top issues.
There were 20 or so issues listed and I couldn't find a single issue that I would check a box for. Even "Immigration Reform" carries a taint due to what I know the democrats mean by it.
I would check every box on the list in your post.
There were 20 or so issues listed and I couldn't find a single issue that I would check a box for. Even "Immigration Reform" carries a taint due to what I know the democrats mean by it.
I would check every box on the list in your post.
Posted by: Great Reagan's Deplorable Ghost at April 25, 2018 06:13 PM (56GKt)
485
How do you define "radical change"? Because returning to the Federal Government we had before LBJ's failed war on poverty sounds like radical change.
Posted by: Neil deGrasse It's not rape if I'm wearing the dress Tyson at April 25, 2018 07:16 PM (1L9V9)
486
Jordan Petersen is Tony Robbins for the 21st century. Sign up NOW! for his "The Incredible Power of YOU!!" three-day convention at the Forum, weekend passes start ar $499.
Posted by: Kate58 at April 25, 2018 07:20 PM (eIbqI)
487
On again off again reader/lurker here.
Yes please and more of this!
Yes please and more of this!
Posted by: Jeremiahwasabullfrog at April 25, 2018 10:49 PM (29fe9)
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