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Guest Review: Blade Runner: The Final Cut [moviegique]
Most of The Horde has probably never even heard of this movie, but it might be fun to chat about it anyway. Our very own moviegique has agreed to share his thoughts on it, and if you like them, or even if you disagree, head over to his blog, Moviegique: I Go To The Movies More Than You, where he has a few (hundred) more reviews all set for your reading pleasure.
Few movies of the past 35 years have been as influential as Ridley Scott's 1982 science-fiction classic Blade Runner. Most of the sci-fi of these past few decades have wanted to be either Blade Runner or Road Warrior -- more so, stylistically, than even Star Wars.
Producers wanted Star Wars' box office but not really its cheerful, retro feel (like its almost campy scene transitions, hearkening back to the old Flash Gordon serials). Blade Runner and Road Warrior, on the other hand, were, real, man. They were gritty visions of an inescapable future. Not quite as bad as what we might call "Zack Snyder disease" is today, but still pretty awful. Humongous wants you to embrace the realism.
alt="That codpiece is super real." Blade Runner also had a huge influence on literature, being released two years before Neuromancer, William Gibson's grim take on the future that sounded the starting gun on a cyber-implant, corporate-ruled-dystopia which, in retrospect, was no more realistic than utopic '50s jetpack sci-fi, but a lot more dreary. It was also a big influence on video games. Which is, all-in-all, not bad for the film that finished 27th at the Box Office in 1982, behind Tron, Lee Horsley's magnum opus The Sword and the Sorceror and, of course, The Best Little Whorehouse In Texas. (It did beat out another iconic film: John Carpenter's The Thing. So, it's got that going for it.) The movie tested so poorly that a desperate Ladd Company hacked it up and added a notoriously bad voiceover (by Harrison Ford) trying to explain the plot. This gave the movie an ersatz '40s film-noir detective feel, which should have been a good thing, but (probably because they did it without any of the talent on board, except a frustrated Ford) just made hash of the whole experience. As such, there are no less than six subsequent cuts of this film trying to salvage it. Rutger Hauer thinks seven versions is excessive.
alt="Also, he can't believe you left your bishop open like that." We saw "The Final Cut'" which is Ridley Scott's last word on what he was trying to say and do here. And it sucks. I kid! I kid! but not as much as I wish I were. The truth is, Blade Runner is one of the most frustrating experiences you can have in a movie theater. Why? Because it is staggeringly beautiful. Even 35 years later, the special effects are the best practical effects have to offer. As I've maintained in this past 18 months (where we've shifted our moviegoing to half-or-more-revivals of classics), what works, long-term, for special effects is not whether they look "realistic." The word "realistic" really just means "conforms to the current idea of how this impossible thing might look." Plenty of movies from the last 15 years that were heralded as breakthroughs in CGI look positively goofy now. (All that effort Lucas put into ruining his original trilogy, for example, looks even worse now than it did back in 1997's "Special Editions." before we realized ol' George was gonna bury the originals.) What matters in a special effect is how it reads. Does it communicate what it's supposed to communicate? That's why an old flick, be it Wizard of Oz or Forbidden Planet, still looks great: because it was made to look good, not necessarily real. (If you don't believe that, try watching Oz next to any of the LOTR trilogy on the big screen.) Los Angeles 2019: It's like looking out the window.
alt="Well, in two years, anyway." And there is no doubt that the city of Los Angeles reads. The constant rain, the giant video billboards, the massive superstructures (even though, as is barely pointed out, the earth is depopulating rapidly), all read dystopia -- albeit a strangely beautiful dystopia. And this is true in literally every shot. There isn't a moment of this film that's hastily put together. I've heard it was a hard shoot; I believe that. This is the sort of exacting piece of art that you'd get out of Kubrick (who would take a year to shoot The Shining). The plot really isn't hard to follow, as the "need" for a voice-over might suggest. Harrison Ford is a pseudo-cop whose job it is to destroy androids that can pass for humans. Also, the film takes a (very typical) viewpoint that said androids are essentially human, at least when it comes to the explicatory up-front text, where it explicitly says that destroying the androids isn't called "execution" but "retirement." Brion James horribly miscast as "someone who can pass for human."
alt="I kid because I love. He was great." That said, the whole point of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and, in fact, the whole point of everything Philip K. Dick ever wrote, apparently, is to call into question the difference between what is real, and what you perceive to be real, and whether it matters. (I would guess PKD dropped acid at least once.) The movie can't communicate that subtlety: If the androids are "real," they're sociopaths, quickly changing their emotions to suit whatever is advantageous to the situation. (This was something the book could elide over.) So the movies is left with this ambiguity with regard to -- well, look, these aren't robots or even androids. They're sorta bionic clones. They're organic in every way, except somehow in their ill-defined construction process. The movie is all about this big question -- to the point where Scott and Ford argue about whether or not Deckard (Harrison Ford's character) was actually a replicant -- surrounding the difference between androids and humans, and it really fails to make it much of a question at all. If the replicants aren't human (as far as it counts), there's no moral dilemma whatsoever. If they are, Deckard is a monster. But none of this would actually matter except for one thing: The movie deliberately alienates you from everyone. If you can go through this film and find someone to give a damn about, you're a better movie-watcher than I am. OK, they seem nice.
alt="This film launched Daryl Hannah's Career of Weird." The kids noticed this, too. They all agreed it was amazing to look at, but that they were sorta bored. As it dragged on, I couldn't help but think this was two hours of brilliant set design in search of a movie. Except for Rutger Hauer and some great character actors like the late Brion James (Cabin Boy, Flesh + Blood), William Sanderson ("Newhart," "Deadwood," "True Blood"), James Hong (best known these days as Kung Fu Panda's dad, playing old Chinese guys 35 years ago), Joe Turkel (Lloyd from The Shining), the performances come off as awful. Even Brion James doesn't really come off as being very android-y -- and while this was probably the point, it doesn't help the movie much. Everyone else is at arm's length distance, at best. You could say (as some did) that Ford had not yet learned how to act, but I would defy you to describe his character, regardless of how well he played it. Then see if you could describe Sean Young, Darryl Hannah, Joanna Cassidy or Rutger Hauer in terms of their character. Hauer brings a lot of "humanity" to his character, through little touches he added, but it just feels like the director is so taken with the idea of blurring the line between man and machine, that he pushes man toward the machine. Not gonna lie: You could stop this movie at any random frame and come up with a good desktop wallpaper.
alt="And that's what you want in a movie: Desktop wallpaper." Hey, people clapped in the theater, so for some, two hours of visual beauty is apparently enough. We were glad we saw it. It's an important film. It's an influential film. It has many truly great aspects. But it's a hard film to enjoy in any traditional sense of characters-we-care-about-undergoing-struggles-we-understand. And it's not something I'd recommend to non-movie-lovers. We didn't clap. And now I go into hiding before the legions of Ridlicants come after me.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 08:33 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 08:34 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 08:35 PM (c6/9Q)
The critics didn't give a kiss to Below Her Mouth, either. 21%.
I *hope* this marks a trend in not rewarding SJWs for being SJW.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 28, 2017 08:37 PM (6FqZa)
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:38 PM (q9Tnv)
Oh one more thing - The Lost City Of Z lies. I wish it hadn't because I liked it at the time, but it lies about the subject matter.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 28, 2017 08:38 PM (6FqZa)
I saw this movie three times before I started to get it.
It's less of a narrative and more of a philosophical missing on the nature of humanity with fantastic visuals.
It really is something that keeps itself at arm's length, so I can't fault people who don't get into it (like my wife).
Great read moviegique.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 08:39 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:39 PM (q9Tnv)
Posted by: EC at April 28, 2017 08:39 PM (cdr7G)
And if Deckard is a replicant, and not a human, it makes the whole movie meaningless. Think about it.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at April 28, 2017 08:39 PM (MZcWR)
Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2017 08:40 PM (zLDYs)
OK, I'm ready for your abuse.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 08:41 PM (CcUfv)
Nah, you're review is fine. I differ on several points, though.
1. I really like the voiceover. The world-weary tone in Ford's voice sells his character, his worldview, the job he has to do.
2. I think the performances are universally good. Even Hannah's and she's a sub-par actress. If everyone feels a little 'off' that's likely deliberate.
3. If you can't root for Sean Young in this movie, you need to take the Voight-Kampff test.
4. Decard isn't a monster, in either interpretation. And killing/retiring the replicants isn't morally clean in either interpretation either. Now this group are a bunch of murderers, so that makes their retirement cleaner, but anything that WANTS to be real this badly IS real. That doesn't cut them any slack, they're accountable for their actions, but these aren't machines. But the people treat them as toys or disposable soldiers. And that's their tragedy, as much as the life span.
It's the original, theatrical cut for me. And it's the one I own.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:41 PM (xJa6I)
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:42 PM (xJa6I)
Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2017 08:42 PM (sdi6R)
That's what it tries to do. But it is done so poorly, I'm just rolling my eyes and snorting derisively 15 minutes into the movie.
It does look great, though, I'll give Ridley Scott that.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:42 PM (q9Tnv)
I did neglect Olmos, although he was one of my first choices for pix to include. His performance is amazing just from the fact that he speaks that Manglish the whole time, and it doesn't matter.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 08:42 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:42 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: NaCly Dog at April 28, 2017 08:43 PM (u82oZ)
...
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 28, 2017 08:38 PM (6FqZa)
This.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:43 PM (xJa6I)
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 28, 2017 08:43 PM (TwwWO)
Posted by: @DangerGirl (gab.ai) and her 1.21 Gigawatt SanityProd (tm) at April 28, 2017 08:44 PM (/o9Qk)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 08:44 PM (c6/9Q)
I think the movie, in its zeal to create ambiguity about humans/replicants, fails to sell any of its characters as humans.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 08:44 PM (CcUfv)
They were escaped slaves. And from their point of view, everyone they met was a slaver.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:44 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Diogenes at April 28, 2017 08:45 PM (0tfLf)
My first response to "Who's the lead?" would be Hauer.
It's his story.
Deckert is just a barely sentient cog in a machine.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 28, 2017 08:46 PM (uBKPR)
The original cut (and probably several of the others) had Harrison's voiceover making for a happy ending. ("Oh, and she =wasn't= programmed for instadeath. Yaaaay.")
This voiceover appears over the same shot used for the opening of "The Shining", with Jack Torrance's car driving up to the Overlook.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 08:46 PM (CcUfv)
The text at the beginning says that REPLICANTS are so dangerous, they're not allowed anywhere except off-world, under penalty of DEATH.
So, no replicants on earth, right?
OK, so then Deckard goes to the corporate HQ, and there's replicant Sean Young strutting around like a 1940s model. Hello, death penalty?
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:46 PM (q9Tnv)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 08:46 PM (6Ll1u)
It may not do it elegantly, but I think it's approachable for the layperson and that's why it works. For me, anyway.
Posted by: Witchdoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at April 28, 2017 08:46 PM (eytER)
Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2017 08:47 PM (Sfs6o)
Wasn't the death penalty for returning?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:47 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2017 08:40 PM (zLDYs)
What about Kuryakin?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 28, 2017 08:48 PM (auHtY)
Yes, there is not a lot of character development, but somehow it does project emotion. Ridley Scott somehow uses some crazy amalgam of cinematic technique, music, and even silence to move me emotionally so that what should be shallow, does not feel so at all.
From the shooting of Zara in the back and how that flips you from thinking "shoot the android" to "he just shot a woman in the back", to the loneliness of Sebastian, the the naive and childlike Roy.. all communicated via non-verbal means.
It is a work of art. Some may not like it, as I dislike Rothko, but it makes it no less a masterpiece of cinema.
Posted by: Mordineus at April 28, 2017 08:48 PM (u4xKN)
Posted by: Aetius451AD's work phone at April 28, 2017 08:48 PM (VoTpW)
Posted by: Ricky at April 28, 2017 08:48 PM (GsAUU)
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 08:44 PM (CcUfv)
I won't argue if you feel that way, everyone gets their own vote.
But here's my reason for disagreeing:
1. Roy's grief over Priss's death is the kind of thing only a thinking being experiences.
2. Deckard being 'leaned on' (you're either a cop or you're little people) shows his own ambivalence at being a Blade Runner. And frankly, it shows. He's not great at the job.
3. Sean Young WANTS to be real, wants her memories to mean something. That elevates her above mere eye candy to me.
I also never bought the whole Deckard = Replicant thing, that strikes me as retcon territory. He's too normal not to be real.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:48 PM (xJa6I)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:48 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 28, 2017 08:48 PM (uBKPR)
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 28, 2017 08:49 PM (TJCSB)
Actually, when I was writing this, I came to the same conclusion: It's Hauer's story.
But he's barely in it. And his denouement is just weird as a result. We don't know this guy except as a soulless (?) killer, and yet all of a sudden, he's got this poetic soul.
BTW, Dick thought Rutger Hauer "the perfect Batty--cold, Aryan, flawless".
What are we to take from this vis a vis whether or not he has a soul?
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 08:49 PM (CcUfv)
Supposedly, you can't tell if a person is a replicant unless you ask him or her a bunch of questions. OK, fine, but they determine that naked snake lady's snake is a replicant by putting a few of its scales under a microscope and look, see, there's the serial number, so we got ourselves a replicant. And they can't do something similar with human replicants? Give me a break.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (q9Tnv)
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (GsAUU)
So, no replicants on earth, right?
OK, so then Deckard goes to the corporate HQ, and there's replicant Sean Young strutting around like a 1940s model. Hello, death penalty?
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:46 PM (q9Tnv)
=======
Wait...a head of a major corporation skirts the law? Had the ability to do whatever he wants? Is trying to find ways around the law?
Impossible!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Aetius451AD's work phone at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (VoTpW)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (c6/9Q)
So, no replicants on earth, right?
OK, so then Deckard goes to the corporate HQ, and there's replicant Sean Young strutting around like a 1940s model. Hello, death penalty?
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:46 PM (q9Tnv)
Hello corporate corruption? That's as Noir as it gets.
Also, the company that makes the Replicats is based on earth, just like you can manufacture machine guns in WA state but you can't own one as a private citizen.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (xJa6I)
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:47 PM (LTHVh)
I don't think it specified returning. Let me check, I have the movie on my hard drive. Back in a bit.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:51 PM (q9Tnv)
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 28, 2017 08:51 PM (hVdx9)
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (q9Tnv)
The snake is a replicant, as I recall. They didn't DNA test the woman. But I might need to watch the scene again.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:51 PM (xJa6I)
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 28, 2017 08:49 PM (TJCSB)
Well, we were definitely rooting for the volcano in Pompeii!
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at April 28, 2017 08:52 PM (hscyr)
Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2017 08:53 PM (0mRoj)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:53 PM (LTHVh)
Typically Dickian questions about reality and what it is to be human.
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 08:53 PM (NT3RT)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 08:53 PM (6Ll1u)
====
In the book, DADES? a disease killed off most of Earth's animals and the replicant process was developed to replace the missing pets and repopulate the animal kingdom.
I think that the snake was a nod to that.
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (xJa6I)
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 28, 2017 08:51 PM (hVdx9)
WHICH IS IT ?? how long is it ? which is which ??
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (GsAUU)
Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (Ot7+c)
I pause to note that Deckard, in DADES, is sort of an insurance agent. Heh.
Another title he wanted was "Gotham City" but Bob Kane wouldn't let him have it.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 08:53 PM (6Ll1u)
======
"Let's roll."
-2001: A Space Odyssey
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 08:55 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2017 08:56 PM (zLDYs)
Posted by: Walter Freeman at April 28, 2017 08:56 PM (3Vlkn)
You have to suspend logical thinking and go with the flow of the acid trip. Great visuals and incredible moments but don't ask for plot continuity.
And the Harrison Ford character is a replicant!
Posted by: Ignoramus at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (bQxkN)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 08:53 PM (6Ll1u)
======
"Let's roll."
-2001: A Space Odyssey
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 08:55 PM (Jj43a)
- Alien and/or Aliens
Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (17QyB)
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (NT3RT)
Posted by: colkax mimgo at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (mc8bR)
Posted by: Witchdoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (PFy0L)
Running Blades.
You have a blade. And you ... run?
Never understood that.
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (Uxokn)
Scissors have blades.
I was taught not to run with scissors.
Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (sdi6R)
"After a bloody mutiny...replicants were declared illegal on earth - under penalty of death."
Nothing about returning to earth, but I suppose you could argue it's implied.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:58 PM (q9Tnv)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:54 PM (LTHVh)
This is on my list of movies to watch ASAP.
Posted by: @DangerGirl (gab.ai) and her 1.21 Gigawatt SanityProd (tm) at April 28, 2017 08:58 PM (/o9Qk)
- Alien and/or Aliens
Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (17QyB)
========
Horror/War
Nice try.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 08:58 PM (Jj43a)
Not the best examples. In those films, the staff did try with the best effects and techniques available and developed more to bring the respective directors' visions to screen. If CGI were available for either flick, it would have been used.
A better example might be Vertigo. Hitchy didn't GAF about FX and wanted the spinning, dizzy sequences to look wholly artificial.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 28, 2017 08:58 PM (GgzGa)
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 28, 2017 08:58 PM (TwwWO)
Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2017 08:59 PM (Ot7+c)
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:59 PM (q9Tnv)
Everyone is perfectly cast as well. Even "Rug", who gets a very short scene.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 08:59 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Ignoramus at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (bQxkN)
FU, no
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 08:59 PM (c6/9Q)
I wouldn't say TPB fans would like it, but it's definitely of interest. Robb Wells has a brief cameo. Sara Dunsworth did the costume design. And John Dunsworth's other daughter plays the Hooker With a Heart of Gold.
If The Burning Times come, I think a lot of municipalities will resemble the setting of Hobo.
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 08:59 PM (GsAUU)
-2001: A Space Odyssey
Whatever.
-Gattaca
Posted by: Witchdoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (PFy0L)
=======
*Raises finger*
*Thinks*
*Lots finger*
I can't really object that harshly.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 08:59 PM (Jj43a)
He's not in the film much in the same way that Bruce the Shark isn't in Jaws all that much. Roy's presence as the Replicant Leader is established (going off memory here) when they go through the specs of the different models.
Ultimately it's a show down between Batty and Deckert much like it was between Bruce and Brody.
The difference being that Brody doesn't shoot air tank killing the shark, instead the shark decides to die of ennui as it approaches the boat.
_
Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 28, 2017 09:00 PM (uBKPR)
Posted by: Dr Spank at April 28, 2017 09:00 PM (TJCSB)
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:00 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (TwwWO)
"Miller's Crossing" is terrific. It actually was one of the films that kicked off the whole "classic" schtick. Of the 40 films we've seen so far this year, probably 25 have been "classics".
My review, with hats:
http://moviegique.com/index.php/2016/03/22/millers-crossing-1990/
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (CcUfv)
Don't know why. Just never grabbed me.
Posted by: NJRob at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (yxUNy)
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 28, 2017 08:51 PM (xJa6I)
That's my point. It's inconsistent, which to me smacks of incompetent writing.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (q9Tnv)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (LTHVh)
The film has a kind of comfortable feel despite is sci fi trappings up until he kills the first replicant. That girl crashing through the glass like a butterfly for no reason other than that she was an escaped bioslave, that was brutal to watch. It got harder from that point on until at the end, you realize that Deckard is the bad guy.
The snake serial number thing is straight from the novel. The hole book, Deckard thinks he's found a real animal -- all the animals are dead and only these fakes are around -- and in the end, its just another lab grown one. But they're robots, not replicants. The animals aren't grown or simulated people like the republicans, they're just super sophisticated devices. Lifelike mechanical toads.
And yeah, its Deckard.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 09:02 PM (6Ll1u)
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:02 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 09:02 PM (LTHVh)
This presupposes a vertically oriented blade.
Basically, somebody who's on a very narrow path.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 28, 2017 09:02 PM (uBKPR)
Sorry not buying it, and it adds nothing at all to the movie, makes it much worse in my opinion.
For the record I also like the happy ending version of Brazil.
Posted by: Mordineus at April 28, 2017 09:02 PM (u4xKN)
Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2017 08:59 PM (Ot7+c)
I don't either, it's just a load of ex post facto bullshit, like JFK conspiracy theories.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 09:02 PM (q9Tnv)
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:02 PM (GsAUU)
The critics didn't give a kiss to Below Her Mouth, either. 21%.
I *hope* this marks a trend in not rewarding SJWs for being SJW.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 28, 2017 08:37 PM (6FqZa)
------
Saw it today. What's funny is that it turns out to be a huge critique of SJW's and the herd mentality. Individuality is shunned. Privacy is shunned. Hunting is an excuse to gang up on an innocent and harass him to misery. People who live for social media are nuts.
It was a conservative film even if they don't realize it. Probably why the critics hated it.
Posted by: NJRob at April 28, 2017 09:03 PM (yxUNy)
Sure, let's call it "rooting". It's a pity she turned into a less than attractive (or sane) nutjob, but at the time, she was stunning. I especially liked her in the big fur collar.
Anyway, 2001, of course.
Posted by: pep at April 28, 2017 09:03 PM (LAe3v)
Harrison's character: Harrison was playing a mish mash of Humphrey Bogart's Sam Space and Phillip Marlowe.
The narration was an important part of establishing Deckard's character as well as setting the tone of the film: film noir in the 21st century.
If Deckard was a replicant, that doesn't make him a sociopath. There were two kinds of replicants in the movie: those that knew they were replicants, like Roy Batty, and those that didn't like Rachel (at least initially). The speculation about Deckard is that he was one of the unknowing replicants: he thought he was human and (mostly) accepted the conventional wisdom that the replicants were merely things.
I would also argue that the other android's were not sociopaths. They were created as slave labor. They were purposely given a 4 year life span. They were willing to kill in an attempt to extend their lives., And, while they treated each other with a moral code, they felt no obligations to the humans who had enslaved them and were planning on killing them on sight. If humans are allowed self defense, why not android who were made to be "more human than human"?
The movie explores the question of the morality of treating replicants as machines if they are made so well that they have a sense of identity.
I think, therefore I am.
Is it ok to create a non-human slave race? If they have no sense of individual identity, sure, no problem. They aren't any more human than the toaster. But, if it becomes possible to create a being with it's own sense of identity, how can it be moral to own it?
And finally, the best version is the International version. That one has the narration and was not edited for violence (ala US version). The later versions are interesting for the unicorn dream sequence, but as they are missing the narration, they are inferior.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2017 09:04 PM (R+30W)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umc9ezAyJv0
What a smug bastard the proctor is!
Also, very noirish veil of cigarette smoke. Is it just me, or is smoking making a comeback in television?
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 09:04 PM (NT3RT)
Replicants were kind of a labor of ego by their creator, he wanted them to be as perfectly human as he could but the people he made them for were afraid they'd be trouble (being tougher, faster, and stronger than normal humans etc) so they were designed to die after a short run. They don't have serial numbers etc because they're designed to be completely human, on purpose, by a slightly mad genius.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:04 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:04 PM (GsAUU)
Posted by: Tuna at April 28, 2017 09:04 PM (jm1YL)
Posted by: Zardoz at April 28, 2017 09:05 PM (nlbfN)
FU, no
We could debate for hours.
Can we agree that the scene that leads up to the Rutger Hauer character dying is incredibly special.
Like the Flight of the Valkyries scene in Apocalypse Now
Posted by: Ignoramus at April 28, 2017 09:05 PM (bQxkN)
Posted by: AltonJackson at April 28, 2017 09:06 PM (z9GNb)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:07 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:07 PM (Nwg0u)
Posted by: Rachel Corrie at April 28, 2017 09:07 PM (LAe3v)
feels very Alan Parsons to me..
Posted by: Mordineus at April 28, 2017 09:08 PM (u4xKN)
Posted by: pep at April 28, 2017 09:08 PM (LAe3v)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:07 PM (Nwg0u)
--Didn't he do The Untouchables?
I thought that was good.
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:08 PM (GsAUU)
I wonder if it wasn't the director, because while he can make some stinkers, Ridley Scott can make really great films, too.
I will give him points for boffing a very young Jennifer Jason Leigh in Flesh & Blood though. Terrible movie, but wow is she gorgeous
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:09 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 09:09 PM (6Ll1u)
Posted by: Harrison Ford at April 28, 2017 09:09 PM (ZO497)
And I liked Sean Young
Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2017 09:09 PM (Ot7+c)
Trust me.
Posted by: Tortoise at April 28, 2017 09:09 PM (uBKPR)
a. been truly lonely;
b. been trapped;
c. had his well-being deeply contingent on someone else;
d. had to take a leap of faith, in love;
e. been acquainted with anything other than success and luck in life;
f. known mercy.
[Please note the disjunctive "or".]
Posted by: Venus d' Sighlow at April 28, 2017 09:09 PM (i/H7f)
Posted by: Ignoramus at April 28, 2017 09:05 PM (bQxkN)
let's pretend that we did, and walk away agreeing to disagree ?
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:10 PM (c6/9Q)
I have MANY wrong opinions!
>>Harrison's character: Harrison was playing a mish mash of Humphrey Bogart's Sam Space and Phillip Marlowe.
Well, duh. =P
>>The narration was an important part of establishing Deckard's character as well as setting the tone of the film: film noir in the 21st century.
So important it wasn't part of the film until it tested badly, and is frequently cited as the worst aspect of the film? (I'm not saying that's right, btw, just pointing it out.)
>>I would also argue that the other android's were not sociopaths.
This is where I have to disagree, seriously. There are certain movie techniques for showing when a character is cynically manipulating others--like the smile to your face that changes to a flat expression or leer when you look away.
This was necessary to create a sense of menace, on the one hand, but it completely undermines the movie on the other.
If the slave analogy is to work, then the leaders should be reflective of those who led slaves to freedom, don't you think?
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:10 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:10 PM (GsAUU)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:10 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 28, 2017 09:10 PM (ZO497)
Posted by: Apathetic at April 28, 2017 09:11 PM (kP16F)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:11 PM (39g3+)
feels very Alan Parsons to me.. "
I'm a traditionalist. Even to my, then, young ears, it was jarring.
Posted by: Tuna at April 28, 2017 09:11 PM (jm1YL)
To each their own, I guess. I understand the characters, can relate in some ways to their situations and find more than a couple of them sympathetic. I prefer the version without the voice over.
I like the the experience that you are a witness to events and people that are strange and unfamiliar... yet, you gain an understanding as if you were tagging along with these strangers in this strange world. It's a testament to the whole production that this understanding comes without much exposition and spoon feeding. It's not an easy task, you got to concentrate on the movie and go with it... but, it's really worth it. It's sad, tragic movie and the cast and script really sell their predicaments with a bare minimum of background blah blah. This is a hallmark of of a truly great piece. Do you fully understand these people? No...
But, you see all you need to about them, in the here and now, to understand them enough. That's what counts and that's plenty.
Posted by: otho at April 28, 2017 09:12 PM (lmIoG)
"Night Hawks"
Also, the movie most desperately in need of a different sound track. And I like ELP.
Posted by: Tortoise at April 28, 2017 09:13 PM (uBKPR)
----------------
Who's going to know? He's the head of the corporation that makes replicants. Are you going to trust him, or some random cop who claims she failed a VK test? Remember that even she doesn't believe she's a replicant until Ford's character starts bringing up her memories.
Posted by: junior at April 28, 2017 09:13 PM (To4O8)
Posted by: AltonJackson at April 28, 2017 09:13 PM (z9GNb)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (CNHr1)
Posted by: hillary (')(.) at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (nlbfN)
Ha! It was...inappropriate, I thought.
The ending of Ladyhawke is also so terribly cliché as to be awful. "Well, we gotta end here...let's have the villain guarantee that the hero has to kill him."
Richard Donner can direct, tho'.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (ZO497)
Posted by: NJRob at April 28, 2017 09:03 PM (yxUNy)
---
I loved the book. Everybody at The Circle had to be woven into the fabric of information and interconnectivity and be accessible 24/7. Who wouldn't want that? WHO?!
The chirpy invasiveness was much scarier than the classic jackbooted thugs scenario.
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (NT3RT)
)Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (GsAUU)
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:15 PM (Uxokn)
we often do
Posted by: AltonJackson at April 28, 2017 09:13 PM (z9GNb)
=====
Who wants to talk about Rogue One?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:15 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:15 PM (GsAUU)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor
-------------
In many ways, this is the story of Barack Obama.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 28, 2017 09:15 PM (ZO497)
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (fiGNd)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc
===
She throws them away after each show.
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (GsAUU)
Posted by: Eric at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (LiN1N)
Posted by: Mordineus at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (u4xKN)
Posted by: Mortimer
----------
Nah. She has all of her teeth.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (ZO497)
Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2017 09:17 PM (Ot7+c)
http://moviegique.com/index.php/2013/03/14/the-untouchables-1987/
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:17 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:17 PM (Uxokn)
This was in maybe 1997, so I have no way of knowing which version it was. It was OK. I watched the whole thing.
My issue may be a generational one - I don't understand the appeal of dystopia. He was/is Gen X and I'm a boomer. Is that the difference?
Posted by: Miley, the Duchess at April 28, 2017 09:17 PM (tHwdc)
With the exception of "Dr. Zhivago", I've never noticed a soundtrack.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc
Not even to "We Were Soldiers Once"?
Posted by: pep at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (LAe3v)
Posted by: tu3031 at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (qJhUV)
aren't grown or simulated people like the republicans, they're just
super sophisticated devices. Lifelike mechanical toads.
And yeah, its Deckard.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:01 PM (39g3+)
Heh.
Posted by: @DangerGirl (gab.ai) and her 1.21 Gigawatt SanityProd (tm) at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (/o9Qk)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (CNHr1)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (x3uSY)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc
===
She throws them away after each show.
Posted by: Mortimer
-----------
Perhaps. Dresses too? Thus avoiding any possibility of the fashion faux pas of being seen on-air twice in the same outfit.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (ZO497)
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (fiGNd)
ScoggDog would join in a heartbeat
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (c6/9Q)
Wanted: Dead or Alive
Hauer, Gene Simmons, Robert Robert Guillaume
Randall: "Fuck the bonus."
(*boom* )
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 28, 2017 09:19 PM (GgzGa)
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 09:19 PM (NT3RT)
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:19 PM (lwiT4)
Great movie. Everyone should see it.
Posted by: rammerplex at April 28, 2017 09:19 PM (S1j8O)
I loved the book. Everybody at The Circle had to be woven into the fabric of information and interconnectivity and be accessible 24/7. Who wouldn't want that? WHO?!
The chirpy invasiveness was much scarier than the classic jackbooted thugs scenario.
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM (NT3RT)
---------------
Started reading the book today. Glad you liked it.
I cannot imagine anyone empathizing with any of the Circle employees. They're nuts.
Posted by: NJRob at April 28, 2017 09:19 PM (yxUNy)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 28, 2017 09:16 PM (ZO497)
Or a really good dentist like NGU!
Posted by: Hrothgar at April 28, 2017 09:19 PM (gwPgz)
Bladerunner hits on this as well. The Replicants, especially the Rutger Hauer one, are more human than we are
Posted by: Ignoramus at April 28, 2017 09:20 PM (bQxkN)
-
Lizzy Warren's a replicant?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:20 PM (Nwg0u)
This is where I have to disagree, seriously. There are certain movie techniques for showing when a character is cynically manipulating others--like the smile to your face that changes to a flat expression or leer when you look away.
This was necessary to create a sense of menace, on the one hand, but it completely undermines the movie on the other.
If the slave analogy is to work, then the leaders should be reflective of those who led slaves to freedom, don't you think?
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:10 PM (CcUfv)
++++
What of Spartacus? Did he always show his true face to the Romans?
It seems to me that just as it is the case that slave owners frequently view their chattel as less than human, so it must be with the slaves. Many must view their owners as creatures who have forfeited any claim to compassionate treatment. If it is necessary to kill your master to gain your freedom, who can say it is immoral to do so? Aside from the masters, that is.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2017 09:20 PM (R+30W)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc
====
She's talking! Where is the bipolar mousy / potentially explosive crazyhot IhateyouIloveyouIhateyouIloveyou girl I have grown so accustomed to?
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:20 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (c6/9Q)
Hell ... I'm applying online now ...
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 28, 2017 09:20 PM (fiGNd)
Posted by: Miley, the Duchess at April 28, 2017 09:17 PM (tHwdc)
=======
The difference was probably more life experience, therefore more cynicism and not being able to suspend disbelief.
Posted by: Uber Lyft Driver at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (1Z3v+)
Might very well be. Cyberpunk is VERY Gen-X. The Boomers grew up on The Greatest Generation's optimism. Xers grew up on Boomer's apocalypticism.
A not-quite-apocalytpic, cool-techno-but-still-malevolent future was the result.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (6Ll1u)
http://moviegique.com/index.php/2013/03/14/the-untouchables-1987/
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:17 PM (CcUfv)
--Good review. It has been a long time since I last saw it. I's like to catch it again.
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (GsAUU)
(I'll be very disappointed if you haven't seen it. )
Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2017 09:14 PM
Alas, I have not seen...
Posted by: otho at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (lmIoG)
Rachael was a mess though, because she was a copy of a real woman, then finds out so.. That causes her entire emotional world to collapse. Mommy isn't mommy, etc.
Posted by: Mordineus at April 28, 2017 09:22 PM (u4xKN)
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:22 PM (J70i0)
The replicants were not sociopaths... they were children who did not have time to learn...
When looked at through that prism, there actions were predictable...
Posted by: Don Q., at April 28, 2017 09:22 PM (NgKpN)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (6Ll1u)
Don't let 'em have pockets. Eddie Murphy explained this.
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 28, 2017 09:22 PM (fiGNd)
piano guy -- Sure, he was Lo Pan and a zillion other guys. But I got kids. So he's Kung Fu Panda's dad.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:23 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:23 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:24 PM (Nwg0u)
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:22 PM (J70i0)
======
That's actually some of the evidence that he's a replicant. He's not really a blade runner, he's play acting.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:24 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (6Ll1u)
So just like an Ex Wife?
/rimshot
Posted by: Don Q., at April 28, 2017 09:24 PM (NgKpN)
Posted by: josephistan at April 28, 2017 09:24 PM (ANIFC)
Posted by: Red Dwarf toaster at April 28, 2017 09:24 PM (nlbfN)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:25 PM (CNHr1)
===
Neuromancer put me on my career path. Gibson at his best was and unbelievable worldbuilder and futurist.
Don't even mention 'Johnny Mnemonic'.
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:25 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:25 PM (vRcUp)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:26 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:26 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 28, 2017 08:37 PM (6FqZa)
All I could think of for the trailers for the film is once again Boyega is cast opposite some white waif.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:26 PM (J70i0)
I love the "Enthusiasms" speech... DJT should give it to Paul Ryan and GOP leadership
Posted by: Al Capone at April 28, 2017 09:26 PM (DpOmP)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:18 PM (IDPbH)
++++
He was Larry on The Newhart Show. Both his brothers were maned Darryl.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2017 09:26 PM (R+30W)
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 09:19 PM (NT3RT)
LOL - no debates, that would ruin the pleasure ;-)
Posted by: Miley, the Duchess at April 28, 2017 09:26 PM (tHwdc)
No offense intended to Moviegique or the Cobs, but this just isn't in my wheelhouse. And the same can be said for a lot of other movies. I've just lost my taste for sitting in a theater for X number of hours to watch someone else's fantasy.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 28, 2017 09:27 PM (0deF2)
One day I will quit buying dollar store cheaters and go to the eye doctor.
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:27 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:25 PM (Uxokn)
*Updates dossier*
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 28, 2017 09:27 PM (fiGNd)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:26 PM (39g3+)
=====
"What it should have been"
I literally hate this idea of an argument.
Movie and books are different. One should not be judged based on the merits or contents of another.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:27 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: NJRob at April 28, 2017 09:27 PM (yxUNy)
what does it mean to be human and not an automaton, Clockwork Orange
most of all.
Bladerunner hits on this as well. The Replicants, especially the Rutger Hauer one, are more human than we are
Posted by: Ignoramus at April 28, 2017 09:20 PM
--
Really interesting observation.
Posted by: shibumi at April 28, 2017 09:27 PM (8zWAk)
Werner von Boom and Disney did some Man In Space flicks, which I have only seen projected in the background at my favorite club back in the day while throbbing techno ruined my chromosomes.
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 09:28 PM (NT3RT)
-----------
Last of the Mohicans
Braveheart
The English Patient
Posted by: lindarose at April 28, 2017 09:28 PM (kufk0)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:28 PM (39g3+)
with Blade Runner is that Harrison Ford stinks at his job. He is saved
by Sean Young, avoids death because Pris decides to go flipping away,
and Hauer decides not to kill him.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:22 PM (J70i0)
interesting, no? a man whose job is to terminate replicants is saved by them. who is more humane ?
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:28 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:29 PM (Uxokn)
I'm not gonna disagree with any of you about your takes on the movie because my guiding theory about film critics is that they see a movie much like the rest of us, and then use their knowledge of film to create justifications for their gut reactions.
What I =think= would have worked for me was some genuinely convincing sense of humanity even if it were just between the androids. But that would've worked against the movie as Scott envisioned it. So be it.
As my son ("The Boy" on the blog) said after "The Lure", "I should have watched it better."
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:29 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Jean at April 28, 2017 09:29 PM (nD4Y0)
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:29 PM (vRcUp)
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:30 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc
Some really stand out like Star Wars, Jaws, Patton.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 28, 2017 09:30 PM (auHtY)
piano guy -- Sure, he was Lo Pan and a zillion other guys. But I got kids. So he's Kung Fu Panda's dad.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:23 PM (CcUfv)
Yes you said his acting was fine but prior to that you asked if there was any character to give a damn about and Sanderson's character was sympathetic to me.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:30 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: Zombie Leo Tolstoy at April 28, 2017 09:30 PM (Tyii7)
Posted by: jbspry at April 28, 2017 09:31 PM (ycm4Q)
I know something is up with FenelonKid but the ONT was unreachable this morning.
None of my business but is Fen okay?
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:31 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: Uber Lyft Driver at April 28, 2017 09:21 PM (1Z3v+)
He was very intelligent, but at 23...yeah.
Posted by: Miley, the Duchess at April 28, 2017 09:31 PM (tHwdc)
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:29 PM (Uxokn)
You should see the one I have on me.
Holy. Shit.
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 28, 2017 09:32 PM (fiGNd)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:32 PM (39g3+)
-----------
Last of the Mohicans
Braveheart
The English Patient
-
Star Wars
Schindler's List
Patton
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:32 PM (Nwg0u)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:32 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: davidt at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (XoldI)
Posted by: lindarose at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (kufk0)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (IqV8l)
Don't get me wrong - people like what they like. But if I hear Star Trek or Star Wars or robots or transformers or autopilot-people or time-travel or shape-shifting, you totally lose me. I can't make the connection.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (lwiT4)
-----------
Last of the Mohicans
Braveheart
The English Patient"
Gone with the Wind
Ben-Hur
Psycho
Gladiator
The Robe
Obsession....
Posted by: Tuna at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (jm1YL)
Okay I'm not the only one to think that about M&C.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:32 PM (IDPbH)
=====
Mostly classical music.
The final moment played to Baccharinni always makes me smile like a moron.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (Jj43a)
So Deckerd could have defeated them with Ritalin?
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (vRcUp)
Posted by: Darth Randall at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (v3DL/)
Posted by: Fritz at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (TNQMS)
keeping a close watch on Deckard. Lends a bit of credence to Deckard
being a skin-job. Like it's his job to retire Deckard if he/it gets out
of line.
Posted by: davidt at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (XoldI)
iiiiteresting. I thought it was a loyalty issue - since Deckard retired. (or was he ?)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (c6/9Q)
The Sting reintroduced ragtime music
Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (Ot7+c)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:35 PM (IqV8l)
with Blade Runner is that Harrison Ford stinks at his job. He is saved by Sean Young, avoids death because Pris decides to go flipping away, and Hauer decides not to kill him.
-
He's a human being, not a human doing.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:35 PM (Nwg0u)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (c6/9Q)
======
All but the first one.
That was Klaus Badlet.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:35 PM (Jj43a)
origami or whatever, and cut loose in his next scene with an AK-47.
==
yes, had that aura about him
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:35 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (IqV8l)
Wasn't the theme played for a cigarette commercial or another product?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:35 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: All Hail Eris in her Black Hugo Boss Uniform with Wee Little Skulls at April 28, 2017 09:36 PM (NT3RT)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:36 PM (CNHr1)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:36 PM (39g3+)
The final moment played to Baccharinni always makes me smile like a moron.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone
I recommend you watch Ladykillers, with Alec Guinness and Herbert Lom.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:36 PM (vRcUp)
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:35 PM (Jj43a)
GoT soundtrack is good, Zimmer's understudy
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Koholeth at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (FXg2y)
Braveheart
The English Patient"
Gone with the Wind
Ben-Hur
Psycho
Gladiator
The Robe
Obsession....
Posted by: Tuna at April 28, 2017 09:34 PM (jm1YL)
Horny Co-eds 6 or was it 7?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (auHtY)
Clearly you've never been on the "It's A Small World" ride.
Posted by: pep at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (LAe3v)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (Nwg0u)
Could somebody explain to me what draws people to aliens, robots, repli....whatevers, sci-fantasy, or mechanical people in regards to story telling? To me it just sounds weird and forced and techie for the sake of techie.
I feel the same way about musicals.
The only musical I have ever watched all the way through was The Wizard of Oz. I guess it's considered a musical.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (IqV8l)
Posted by: lindarose
Yep, I liked it. A bit sterile but a decent sci-fi flick.
How It Should Have Ended has a funny take on the ending, if you haven't seen it already. Worth a click.
youtu.be/3rf5QwVAAxg
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (GgzGa)
230 Magnificent Seven
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (IqV8l)
Wasn't the theme played for a cigarette commercial or another product?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:35 PM (IDPbH)
cough
Posted by: Marlboro Man at April 28, 2017 09:38 PM (XoldI)
if I hear Star Trek or Star Wars or robots or transformers or
autopilot-people or time-travel or shape-shifting, you totally lose me. I
can't make the connection.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (lwiT4)
well, blade runner is kind of a love story too, grammie winger
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:38 PM (c6/9Q)
Fritz Lang's Metropolis still has more versions than Blade Runner.
I actually prefer the Work Print version of this movie. It is a bit more gritty than even the first theater version.
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 28, 2017 09:38 PM (Qd/25)
And you forgot Edward James Olmos as Gaff.. great characters!
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 28, 2017 09:38 PM (UpGcq)
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (lwiT4)
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:36 PM (vRcUp)
=======
According to Netflix, I have.
I have it 3 out of 5. I remember nothing of it, though.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (Jj43a)
Once Upon a Time in the West
The Mission
The Good the Bad and the Ugly
The Untouchables
All by Ennio Morricone
Posted by: Tuna at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (jm1YL)
Wasn't the theme played for a cigarette commercial or another product?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth
Marlboro, man.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (IqV8l)
-----------
Last of the Mohicans
Braveheart
The English Patient
Posted by: lindarose
Guardians of the Galaxy?
Posted by: Jean at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (nD4Y0)
Posted by: lindarose at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (kufk0)
Yes I liked it. Good mix of action and story.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (TwwWO)
Posted by: pep at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (LAe3v)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (6Ll1u)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 28, 2017 09:40 PM (Uxokn)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:40 PM (IqV8l)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:38 PM (c6/9Q)
===============================
It is? Okay. Might possibly watch it. My biggest problem with movies is when they have scenes that are surreal. I flat out cannot do surreal.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:40 PM (lwiT4)
===
Geneva convention does not apply to replicants. You may sit down.
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (TwwWO)
Melmoth -- Yeah, I almost included him, because his fear and apparent kindness and harmlessness renders him more immediately likable than most of the other characters.
But then I thought about it: He's making monsters or he's making slaves, and it's come back to bite him in the ass. It's like a less extreme version of John Turturro in Miller's Crossing: he's sympathetic when he's imperiled, but is it really when you consider where he must fit in the scheme of things?
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (CcUfv)
Thanks for the BR review, Moviegique.
Posted by: otho at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (lmIoG)
My favorite part is where Sean Young's hair magically goes from straight to curly. That right there should tell you she's a replicant.
Posted by: notsothoreau at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (5HBd1)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:39 PM (39g3+)
======
Well, the problem there is beginning from the idea that Rowling might be an artist.
She's not even close. She's a craftsman who had good editors in the beginning.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (Nwg0u)
Posted by: pep at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (LAe3v)
Posted by: hogmartin at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (8nWyX)
Posted by: The Lollipop Guild at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (Tyii7)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 28, 2017 09:42 PM (UpGcq)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2017 09:42 PM (IqV8l)
++++
Let me come back to this. One of the other benefits of the narration is that it develops the Deckard character. Example: after he shoots the Zhora replicant, the narration includes Deckard saying that he didn't feel great about shooting a woman in the back, even if she was a replicant.
It demonstrated the doubts Deckard had about his actions. Without the narration, there wasn't one thing on the screen telling you about the guilt he felt about what he had done.
Seriously, if you want to get a better feel for Deckard, watch it with the narration. It was a better movie with it. And while the final happy ending was cheesy, we are talking about maybe 1 or 2 minutes of screen time. It's worth that flaw to get the better movie for the 2 hours before that point.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2017 09:42 PM (R+30W)
Work Print has no unicorn. Which is another reason why I like it.
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 28, 2017 09:43 PM (Qd/25)
My issue may be a generational one - I don't understand the appeal of dystopia.
Clearly you've never been on the "It's A Small World" ride.
Posted by: pep at April 28, 2017 09:37 PM (LAe3v)
Do not get me started on Disneyland. After a childhood of dreams, the stark, shrunken sun-bleached reality of Cinderella's castle traumatized me for the next decade.
Posted by: Miley, the Duchess at April 28, 2017 09:43 PM (tHwdc)
Posted by: lindarose
It was visually gorgeous. The sense of isolation, etc. I liked the evil cyclops bots. What irritated me is that I thought that English girl was incredibly hot. I thought Cruise was an imbecile for choosing Kurylenko, who usually looks a lot better, but seemed to have been deliberately made to look plain in that movie. I also felt it became muddled towards the end, and the big plot "twist" was pretty lame.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:43 PM (vRcUp)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:43 PM (CNHr1)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:43 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 28, 2017 09:44 PM (auHtY)
problem with movies is when they have scenes that are surreal. I flat
out cannot do surreal.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:40 PM (lwiT4)
I understand. I think this one is not surreal, slightly distopean maybe. But if you've seen lower wacker drive, you'll have no problems.
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:44 PM (c6/9Q)
The Sea Hawk and The Adventures of Robin Hood
Posted by: Tuna at April 28, 2017 09:44 PM (jm1YL)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:28 PM (c6/9Q)
Actually it isn't. It just makes him look totally incompetent. If he dispatches all but Hauer and Hauer shows him mercy, then it's interesting. Pris doesn't spare him. She just seems more interested in torturing him.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:44 PM (J70i0)
Also: Pump Up The Volume, and pretty much any John Hughes movie. Pretty In Pink was almost a New Order album but all the better for that. And no Weird Science? It's like I don't even know this place anymore.
Dishonourable mentions for the soundtracks to Shrek and Watchmen; thanks for ruining Leonard Cohen's Halleluia, you hacks. And Smashmouth sucks gorilla dick.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (6FqZa)
Posted by: elaine benes at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (nlbfN)
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (Qd/25)
Supposedly, you can't tell if a person is a replicant unless you ask him or her a bunch of questions. OK, fine, but they determine that naked snake lady's snake is a replicant by putting a few of its scales under a microscope and look, see, there's the serial number, so we got ourselves a replicant. And they can't do something similar with human replicants? Give me a break.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at April 28, 2017 08:50 PM (q9Tnv)
I'm not seeing a plot hole here. Deckard already knows Zhora is a replicant by virtue of Bryant presenting her file to him toward the beginning of the movie. The snake scale found in the replicants' apartment aided Deckard in tracking her down.
Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (V4Qfo)
Posted by: davidt at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (XoldI)
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (MINbv)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (c6/9Q)
http://moviegique.com/index.php/2015/07/25/the-third-man-1949/
Did not care for the zither.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (CcUfv)
The voice over narrator is something Hollywood doesn't like, but Hollywood is WRONG.
For instance, any good adaptation of Tolkien must have narration. The wry tone of the third person narrator is omnipresent within the stories. Excising this drains the setting and story of much of its life.
Posted by: Luke at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (4fUM9)
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:44 PM (c6/9Q)
===============================
So - nightmare scenario, eh?
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (lwiT4)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (IDPbH)
I swear by the old gods and the new, It's A Small World got stuck when our family was in it. 45 minutes of that.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 28, 2017 09:46 PM (6FqZa)
Grew up reading all the PKD books, his stories in the old Orbit series, and I think the movie did a creditable job in exploring the issue. Except for the voice over.
Posted by: West at April 28, 2017 09:46 PM (DrBFJ)
incompetent. If he dispatches all but Hauer and Hauer shows him mercy,
then it's interesting. Pris doesn't spare him. She just seems more
interested in torturing him.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:44 PM (J70i0)
he is saved by two replicants. that is my point. not incompetence, just life.
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:46 PM (c6/9Q)
I chalked that one up to whatever that high tech hair thingy was the stripper was using to dry herself off in.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:46 PM (39g3+)
If you haven't seen it, this is what you need to know for this scene. Rutger is a soldier automaton "bred" with superior powers but a designated end date, like the other automatons off planet. He and others decide they don't want to die, and come to Earth where they're banned. Harrison Ford is tasked with finding them and eliminating them.
In an earlier scene, Ford has just killed Rutger's automaton girlfriend and Rutger is bent on revenge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoAzpa1x7jU
Make that one of my top 25 scenes
Posted by: Ignoramus at April 28, 2017 09:46 PM (bQxkN)
Posted by: Tuna at April 28, 2017 09:47 PM (jm1YL)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:47 PM (CNHr1)
Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2017 09:45 PM (lwiT4)
with young-ish Harrison Ford !
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:48 PM (c6/9Q)
That's worse than Gitmo.
Posted by: The Lollipop Guild at April 28, 2017 09:48 PM (Tyii7)
Er, no. Kinda, really, bad...
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 28, 2017 09:48 PM (MINbv)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:48 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:48 PM (CNHr1)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:47 PM (CNHr1)
My favorite chick flick.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:49 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:49 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 28, 2017 09:49 PM (MINbv)
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:24 PM (Jj43a)
He might be a replicant but he's obviously done the job before as shown by the statements of his captain. And his captain considers him to be very good at what he does.
I have to agree with someone further up the thread. The book is not that good. PKD's books, for the most part, aren't that good. They almost all feel extremely dated. The Second Variety I consider to be one of his better works. It has typical PKD questions. However the story flows nicely.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:49 PM (J70i0)
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:36 PM (vRcUp)
=======
According to Netflix, I have.
I have it 3 out of 5. I remember nothing of it, though.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone
A bumbling band of criminals, a sweet little old lady, and a shitload of that Boccherini piece. If that tempts you, you should consider rewatching it.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:49 PM (vRcUp)
Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at April 28, 2017 09:48 PM (CNHr1)
Yes , playing dual role of her twin sister.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:50 PM (IDPbH)
So jya ne!
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 28, 2017 09:50 PM (Qd/25)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:50 PM (Nwg0u)
He's been sent to seek out Decker (who's in hiding) because of a rumor that a skin job has been secretly living on earth for some time, and that Decker can help uncover who it is.
You see, the guy in Charge of the BR unit died and Gaff ascended to the top. He too eventually died, but upon going thru his files the new man in charge caught whiff that something was not right. What the BR agent does not know is that his real purpose is to find Deckerd and be tracked in the process so that he and his wife can be eliminated, even if it means killing their top hunter. After all, if it is true that the BR unit looked the other way while a legendary BR hunter (Deckerd) cohabitated with a skin job, their rep would be ruined and they might even be disbanded/federalized.
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 28, 2017 09:50 PM (hVdx9)
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2017 09:42 PM (R+30W)
I'm one of those people who liked the movie the first time I saw it (original release, I guess), but get tired of the endless bickering over what it all meant.
It's not that deep.
It's a straightforward story. And if you want to reconstruct it so that Ford is a robot, or that the "happy ending" was fake or whatever, I don't really get the point.
In effect, it becomes a different movie when you remove all that stuff that was in the original release, and even Scott doesn't really have that right. If he did, he'd be making movies without studio money. Which he couldn't do.
So play with it, mess with the meaning of it, chop out the narration, and the happy ending. Go ahead.
But that's not the movie that was released.
It's something else.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 28, 2017 09:50 PM (Pz4pT)
Posted by: Jean at April 28, 2017 09:50 PM (nD4Y0)
Posted by: @DangerGirl (gab.ai) and her 1.21 Gigawatt SanityProd (tm) at April 28, 2017 09:51 PM (/o9Qk)
>>>>>>>
Fistful of Dollars
Few Dollars More
Posted by: Quilters Irish Death at April 28, 2017 09:51 PM (KGHbZ)
Me so hawny, need some oil.
Posted by: The Lollipop Guild at April 28, 2017 09:51 PM (Tyii7)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:51 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at April 28, 2017 09:36 PM (vRcUp)
Speaking of Alec Guinness I've been dying to re watch Kind Hearts and Cornets.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 28, 2017 09:51 PM (auHtY)
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:49 PM (J70i0)
=====
Not necessarily. How unreasonable would it be to assume that the captain had been paid to have that interaction with Deckard?
Hell, the captain explains what replicants are to him.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:52 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 09:52 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: andycanuck at April 28, 2017 09:52 PM (nlbfN)
I loved it and still do.
And I've seen things you can't imagine, like attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
Posted by: Hopped Up On Something at April 28, 2017 09:53 PM (Oz6ib)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 09:54 PM (6Ll1u)
No, the Captain explains what replicants are to the audience, while Deckard is standing there. Its one of those "as you know" moments that suck in movies, but happens all too often. "As you know, Bob, El Guapo is the biggest drug dealer in all Mexico, who escaped from a supermax prison last year and has been on the run ever since with his supermodel wife..."
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:54 PM (39g3+)
https://youtu.be/ZHTPcs3lQPU
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 28, 2017 09:55 PM (TwwWO)
Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at April 28, 2017 08:57 PM (17QyB)
Forbidden Planet and Aliens. Both have great stories, great characters, and effects that hold up (ie the effects enhance the story).
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:55 PM (J70i0)
From the stories I've heard, she went insane at birth.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:55 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Zapp Branigan at April 28, 2017 09:56 PM (i8mbD)
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan!
No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 28, 2017 09:41 PM (TwwWO)
weird and grotesque, but there is something there
Posted by: runner at April 28, 2017 09:56 PM (c6/9Q)
No, the Captain explains what replicants are to the audience, while Deckard is standing there. Its one of those "as you know" moments that suck in movies, but happens all too often. "As you know, Bob, El Guapo is the biggest drug dealer in all Mexico, who escaped from a supermax prison last year and has been on the run ever since with his supermodel wife..."
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:54 PM (39g3+)
=======
The Meta reason may be for the audience, but there were other ways to pass that information along than to the guy who should already know it while he plays it like he's never heard the information before.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:56 PM (Jj43a)
Have Rachel and Decker go off in the woods, and have a hybrid human/robot baby! How is that possible?
Shut up! That's how.
So the baby grows up, and wants to go back to the city, but doesn't even know she (yes, she) is a robot/human hybrid. When she gets there, all the bickering and arguing over who killed who is over, and robots and humans are living peacefully, side by side.
Except shes's a freak. Let's give her a Disney name. Delilah. Sheena. Something that ends in a vowel.
Anyhoo, when she gets to the city, she finds out she's a freak, and she... well, she freaks! Runs away, and as mom and dad desperately hunt for her (and rediscover the meaning of what it's like to be among people, both kinds, again), she meets up with a scampy young robot boy. Tristan.
Tristan shows Delilah what it really means to be human.
And they all live happily ever after.
The end.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 28, 2017 09:56 PM (Pz4pT)
I prefer BR minus the narration, the "happy ending", but also without the unicorm dream bit... not needed and is too definitive. I like the movie ending with them exiting with a closing door. The end. I'm happiest not being sure whether Deckard is a replicant or not. Probably human, but just maybe...
Maybe is best.
Posted by: otho at April 28, 2017 09:57 PM (lmIoG)
Phillip K Dick was a tremendous idea guy, very fascinating thoughts and
analysis of trends, technology, and ideas. He's just not a very
engaging writer. His short stories are easier to read, but overall he's
no Heinlein, Bradbury, or Clark.
...........
I have to agree. I was an avid sci-fi reader in the 60's through the 80's.. but I could never get through a PKD story.. just couldn't.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 28, 2017 09:57 PM (UpGcq)
-
That movie ruined Bruce Jenner. He heard, "If I Were a Bitch, Man."
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Doctor of Thinkology at April 28, 2017 09:57 PM (Nwg0u)
Humbly, I would argue, the further you have to go into constructing scenes that were not in the movie in order to explain a theory, the further you are from what anyone intended.
Tangentially, there's a group of people, right now, who argue that the "Harry Potter" series is really about a crazy kid locked in a closet, and all the rest is nonsense. Their logic? "There's no such thing as magic."
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:57 PM (CcUfv)
Hell, the captain explains what replicants are to him.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:52 PM (Jj43a)
Gotta agree with CRT. That's just exposition. Had they known they were going to do the voice-over, they would have modified the scene.
And why would someone pay to have the captain explain something that could have been implanted far easier?
BTW, I prefer the voice-over version(s).
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 09:58 PM (J70i0)
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:59 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:59 PM (39g3+)
Humbly, I would argue, the further you have to go into constructing scenes that were not in the movie in order to explain a theory, the further you are from what anyone intended.
Tangentially, there's a group of people, right now, who argue that the "Harry Potter" series is really about a crazy kid locked in a closet, and all the rest is nonsense. Their logic? "There's no such thing as magic."
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 09:57 PM (CcUfv)
====
It's really just a reason to explain why the captain had to explain so much to a man who should already know most of it.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 09:59 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 10:00 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at April 28, 2017 10:01 PM (IDPbH)
Posted by: Quilters Irish Death at April 28, 2017 10:02 PM (KGHbZ)
I think the most likely explanation is "they just didn't care." I think that explains all of this movie, except for the parts where "they REALLY REALLY cared."
I think it's most likely that the speech is meant as exposition, much in the way that (not much before this movie), TV & movies had tons of scenes of people getting in and out of their cars.
Because otherwise how would the audience know how they got there?
But I think that Scott really cared about the visuals and did his damndest to make them communicate everything he wanted to communicate, and care a whole lot less about plot, continuity and other more mundane aspects of filmmaking.
I think, when this movie hits home for someone, it does so in a very profound way (cf. comment 123). Unlike, e.g. "The Sword and the Sorceror".
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:05 PM (CcUfv)
I got what I paid for a good, well made, entertaining movie.
That Olmost plays a piece of wood so well but that was his part. Same part he played in Miami vice. Playing wood, he was type cast.
Posted by: gNewt fire Ryan. Hell, fire them all at April 28, 2017 10:05 PM (oOYbM)
Now that this thread is going to die, I remembered a point I wanted to make much earlier on:
Has anyone else realized that a "Voit-Kampff" test is basically testing to see if you've been...
TRIGGERED?
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:06 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Lincoln Village at April 28, 2017 10:07 PM (7LgUQ)
Because otherwise how would the audience know how they got there?
But I think that Scott really cared about the visuals and did his damndest to make them communicate everything he wanted to communicate, and care a whole lot less about plot, continuity and other more mundane aspects of filmmaking.
I think, when this movie hits home for someone, it does so in a very profound way (cf. comment 123). Unlike, e.g. "The Sword and the Sorceror".
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:05 PM (CcUfv)
=======
A specific part:
The 4 year life span is stated in the opening crawl, and the captain mentions it in the meeting, whole Ford looks like he's never heard it before.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 10:08 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 10:08 PM (6Ll1u)
I have argued that after the 1950's, 1977-1986 was a great decade for sci-fi on the big screen. Since then it's been a solid entry here or there. However, nothing has really been ground shaking. Since then, it's been reboots, rehashes, etc. The Matrix was about the biggest thing since then and it quickly fizzled.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 10:08 PM (J70i0)
Posted by: lindarose at April 28, 2017 10:10 PM (kufk0)
I have argued that after the 1950's, 1977-1986 was a great decade for sci-fi on the big screen. Since then it's been a solid entry here or there. However, nothing has really been ground shaking. Since then, it's been reboots, rehashes, etc. The Matrix was about the biggest thing since then and it quickly fizzled.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 28, 2017 10:08 PM (J70i0)
>>>>>>>>>>
My thoughts exactly. A lot was lost after Stan Winston's passing. Most of the new stuff makes me want to watch the old stuff. Total Recall reboot (sucked), Robocop reboot (sucked), The Thing (prequel reboot) meh. Mad Max was pretty decent but that was Miller all over again. Liberal group think has almost completely snuffed out originality in Hollywierd.
Posted by: Quilters Irish Death at April 28, 2017 10:19 PM (KGHbZ)
Posted by: lindarose at April 28, 2017 10:10 PM (kufk0)
--Oh yeah.That's one of the few movies that entertain me from start to finish, no matter what point I find it. Such a good movie.
Posted by: Revenant at April 28, 2017 10:20 PM (yXLbm)
The 4 year life span is stated in the opening crawl, and the captain mentions it in the meeting, whole Ford looks like he's never heard it before.
--------------------
I'd bet money the crawl--not even a crawl because they don't want to evoke Star Wars--but I'd bet money the intro was an afterthought along the lines of the voiceover.
And the unicorn? A preview of Ridley Scott's next film: "Legend".
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:21 PM (CcUfv)
It seems possible that he doesn't know some of it. Maybe he's been retired since the Mark 5s and needs to be brought up to speed on the Nexis 6.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 28, 2017 10:21 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Quilters Irish Death at April 28, 2017 10:21 PM (KGHbZ)
And the unicorn? A preview of Ridley Scott's next film: "Legend".
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:21 PM (CcUfv)
=======
Except the crawl was added during editing, and they could have cut around the dialogue while in editing.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 10:23 PM (Jj43a)
>>>>>>
I always thought it symbolized mythical (not real). Olmos nod to Ford that he knows Ford is a replicant.
Posted by: Quilters Irish Death at April 28, 2017 10:25 PM (KGHbZ)
363 I really like that old 40's look that Sean had in Blade Runner, I mean really like, like Jack off like. Nobody does that now except retro strippers.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby
Steampunk search on imagef*p is enlightening
Posted by: Jean at April 28, 2017 10:29 PM (zZb/S)
Posted by: lindarose at April 28, 2017 09:33 PM (kufk0)
----
Good film. So was his version of All You Need Is Kill.
Edge of Tomorrow.
Posted by: NJRob at April 28, 2017 10:29 PM (yxUNy)
Otherwise, one of the most thought-provoking movies I have ever watched, and have watched it at least a dozen times.
Posted by: Dansgirls at April 28, 2017 10:31 PM (xBbs+)
---
Oh, I was kidding about "Legend". The problem with the "Deckard is a replicant" theory is that we also have to come up with a lot of non-movie-supplied explanations for why he's allowed to live.
Ford does not buy the "Deckard is a replicant" theory, but I'm not sure I'd have told him if I were Scott, either. =P
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:31 PM (CcUfv)
---
Which editing? The studio thought the problem was that the movie was too confusing to begin with. I'd bet they wouldn't cut anything.
Why is it in Scott's cut? Well, he...thinks that Deckard's a replicant. So you may be right that that's there as a clue.
Ford did not view it that way.
For some people this adds up to "brilliant". For me, it adds up to "murky".
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:35 PM (CcUfv)
Hahaha I figured as much. I agree that Ridley wouldn't have told him. Maybe Tony Scott threatened to tell him and was met with an unfortunate accident.
Posted by: Quilters Irish Death at April 28, 2017 10:35 PM (KGHbZ)
Which editing? The studio thought the problem was that the movie was too confusing to begin with. I'd bet they wouldn't cut anything.
Why is it in Scott's cut? Well, he...thinks that Deckard's a replicant. So you may be right that that's there as a clue.
Ford did not view it that way.
For some people this adds up to "brilliant". For me, it adds up to "murky".
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:35 PM (CcUfv)
======
We seem to be working under two different assumptions about a movie's authorship.
Scott is the author of Blade Runner. His word and preferred cut carry more weight than any other.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 10:39 PM (Jj43a)
*years later, when it became a word, I said, "Wow, that describes my reaction to Bladerunner.
Posted by: Shopgirl at April 28, 2017 10:39 PM (KQU0W)
Scott is the author of Blade Runner. His word and preferred cut carry more weight than any other.
-----
My rebuttal to that is George Lucas + 35 years.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:46 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 28, 2017 09:49 PM (39g3+)
-------
Which of your books do you consider to be the best?
Posted by: NJRob at April 28, 2017 10:47 PM (yxUNy)
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:46 PM (CcUfv)
======
Even with the changes, Star Wars is still great, just not as great as originally.
He's an author who pushed very early, disappeared for a couple of decades, and came back terrible.
Almost like James Joyce coming back with Finnegan's Wake.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 10:49 PM (Jj43a)
Yes, that's right, I was nearly 13 when I had her. And if you think THAT's impressive, The Boy is 22 in about a month.
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:49 PM (CcUfv)
My point is more that you can't trust what someone says now about what they meant 35 years ago. Especially film directors. Especially about their "greatest films".
Posted by: moviegique at April 28, 2017 10:50 PM (CcUfv)
Posted by: TexasJew at April 28, 2017 10:54 PM (Z6LQG)
Now Scott, he went out of his way to put the issue in play. Especially with the eyes. He always had a shot of every replicant with the weird reflective shine in their eyes. And, he had a shot with Deckard's eyes doing the same thing.
Proof positive? No. But, enough to make you think about it.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2017 10:59 PM (R+30W)
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 28, 2017 11:01 PM (6Ll1u)
I have always liked the voiceover and, even though I know what's going on, find the lack of it jarring in the Director's and Final Cuts.
I am also firmly in the camp of Deckard was Human and Rachel wasn't a Nexus 6 but, instead, everything Dr. Eldon Tyrell could bring to bear in the technology of creating replicants. He alludes to the same after Deckard puts her through the V-K test.
Posted by: Captain Ned at April 28, 2017 11:02 PM (WI6nT)
I have always liked the voiceover and, even though I know what's going on, find the lack of it jarring in the Director's and Final Cuts.
I am also firmly in the camp of Deckard was Human and Rachel wasn't a Nexus 6 but, instead, everything Dr. Eldon Tyrell could bring to bear in the technology of creating replicants. He alludes to the same after Deckard puts her through the V-K test.
Posted by: Captain Ned at April 28, 2017 11:02 PM (WI6nT)
======
I have the Blu Ray version and could sell it today for at least a couple hundred dollars. I won't though. That's mine forever.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at April 28, 2017 11:04 PM (Jj43a)
Posted by: Captain Ned at April 28, 2017 11:09 PM (WI6nT)
So we can all relate to her, but we still don't like her. This film is a lot like Blue Velvet -- just touching many different uncomfortable things we all experience and then changing the focus to something else.
Posted by: rammerplex at April 28, 2017 11:19 PM (S1j8O)
Posted by: Clay at April 28, 2017 11:56 PM (RRmpm)
The Work Print which was shown to test audiences has a different crawl than what was originally seen in theaters.
And back to my scribbling.
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 28, 2017 11:59 PM (Qd/25)
And I thought the book was interesting, but far less entertaining than the movie. It made little sense to me, and I care almost nothing for the characters presented in the book.
Posted by: Advo at April 29, 2017 12:04 AM (/9754)
Posted by: MSTisdale at April 29, 2017 12:13 AM (g9d8D)
Saw Blade Runner, had the same feeling about it. Ice cold, like "2001."
Also: if you want to see a piece of that LA landscape, namely the huge pyramidal building, go to the Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, Queens, hard by the old Kaufman Studios where they shot the Marx Brothers in "Cocoanuts." The scale model is there, and very impressive it is.
Of course Ridley is primarily a visual artist, so his visuals are always terrific.
Posted by: Beverly at April 29, 2017 12:34 AM (THDHw)
I'd like to read your take on Aronofsky's "The Fountain" with Hugh Jackman and Rachael Weisz. I thought that was a beautifully produced film. Great visuals, especially the repeated visual themes.
Posted by: Lurker at April 29, 2017 12:45 AM (v5uOx)
But... I loved it because it looked SENSATIONAL! Like nothing I ever saw before or since. It was just jaw-droppingly different! A dark vision of a dystopic future, & I bought in!
Characters & plot? Sufficient. In THIS movie, that was enough for me.
P.S. How 'bout them BLUZ 2nite, huh?
Posted by: mnw at April 29, 2017 12:52 AM (AV9yQ)
The problem for this film (either version) now, is that Scott's "LOOK"; the scenic atmospherics and design, have been ruthlessly ripped off by subsequent movie-makers for DECADES.
Anyone seeing this film for the first time now, will be struck by how "derivative" it seems; the reverse is actually true. See how many movies and TV epics (and episodic shows) have "borrowed" that dark, rainy look for starters. Even Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" "borrowed" heavily from Scott's design.
The music sound-track is subtle, but instantly evocative.
Posted by: Bruce at April 29, 2017 06:10 AM (nIUnC)
I prefer the theatrical release with the cheesy voice-over. Have the full set (on HDDVD) and whenever I watch one of the other versions it always seems like something's wrong.
Posted by: mark at April 29, 2017 07:32 AM (VuQKj)
Posted by: doomed at April 29, 2017 08:09 AM (UW4Uc)
Posted by: Sam at April 29, 2017 10:47 AM (jHN2F)
Posted by: Lincoln Village at April 28, 2017 10:07 PM (7LgUQ)
Same here. What was your girlfriends name?
Posted by: redclay at April 29, 2017 11:26 AM (fpmcn)
Lurker--Can't really comment because I've only seen "The Fountain" on TV (and I don't think I was paying much attention, which is why I go to the movies--so I can focus).
Posted by: moviegique at April 29, 2017 12:45 PM (CcUfv)
The Ending of the Final Cut... Bleh...
Posted by: Rodney C. Johnson at April 29, 2017 01:29 PM (A5STV)
Planet of the Apes
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
The Rover
And if you haven't seen The Rover: go do it now.
Posted by: Friendo at April 29, 2017 01:48 PM (eUnhA)
Blade Runner so depressed my girlfriend she just wanted to go home. As I recall, she said something like: "I really didn't need to see that movie. It was awful."
I didn't realize I was dating a brilliant movie critic. We broke up later.
Posted by: Dan at April 29, 2017 03:07 PM (Nmvf6)
Posted by: AnotherTabPlz at April 29, 2017 05:06 PM (1yemK)
Posted by: Strelnikov at May 02, 2017 04:10 PM (XIqPD)
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