Economic Migration and a Decline in American Nerve

Tyler Cowen has a new book out and an excerpt is available on Time. (One of Time's other big stories today: "Why Applying To Be On 'The Bachelor' [Reality-TV Series] Was the Best Choice I Ever Made." I suggest you skip that in favor of the Cowen excerpt.)

Cowen frets about a loss of dynamism, vitality, and nerve in the American people. The stat he focuses on here is the percentage of Americans who have moved out-of-state -- it's fallen by 50% since the 80s.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating leaving a hometown just to become a Cosmopoplitan. I have nothing against hometowns. But I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies, like Texas or North Dakota.

That was an impression I had before this article, that what was once commonplace and just something an American man, woman, or family -- move to where the work is, take that chance, suffer that temporary dislocation -- just didn't seem to be happening much anymore.

It's not the moving that missed so much as the spirit and guts that makes the move thinkable in the first place.

One of my more extravagant hopes for Trump is that at least his prosperity-first, let's-get-rich kind of energy and audacity might do something to re-invigorate that in Americans.

There's nothing wrong with this country that a little nerve won't cure.

Immigrants, legal or otherwise, by the way, obviously have a lot of that. Relocating to a country whose language you don't speak (or don't speak well, anyway) is a scary proposition.

Moving to North Dakota shouldn't be. It reminds me of Michael Keaton's Act III speech in Gung Ho -- "Yeah, the American can-do spirit is alive and well. It's just that they [the Japanese, in this movie] have it. And we've got to get some of it back."

David French uses Cowen's book as a jumping off place for his own thoughts on the subject. (Or maybe he's just expanding on Cowen's points -- I don't know.)

I recently read Tim Ferriss' book from a bunch of years ago, The Four Hour Workweek. It's a get-rich-quick-and-easy book, but, eh, I kinda liked it.

One point he made early (chapter 3) is that many people complain of a feeling of a lack of fulfillment. They set out to be "happy," and did things they thought would make them "happy," but are not in fact happy. They feel a void. In fact, many such people look back on their years of struggling as happier than their more-stable present, after they've mostly "made it."

Ferriss made what I think is a good point: People have a vague understanding of what "happiness" is in the first place so they have a very poorly-defined end-goal from the start of it.

What he suggests is that what people really mean when they think of "happiness" -- though they're not aware this is what they're thinking of -- is excitement. And I don't mean riding on roller coasters or even skiing or sex. He summons up the Greek word eustress, which is the positive sort of stress ("eu-" being a prefix associated with positive things, like euphoria).

What he's getting at is that what people think of happiness -- putting all challenges behind you -- is not in fact happiness. It's stability, yes, and it's achievement, yes. But it's also something else -- a bit boring. Lacking in important things -- excitement. A bit of danger. Stakes at play. Forward motion.

Happiness is, he's suggesting, the feeling we have when we feel we're working towards a goal or overcoming a challenge. A mix of sense of partial achievement, forward momentum, and hopes about the golden future.

The golden future isn't as golden as we ever think it is. It is better, an old saying goes, to travel hopefully than to arrive. Having a goal one is working towards permits the somewhat-deluded belief that accomplishing that will bring about happiness.

It won't, actually. It'll bring some good things, but not that sense of actual happiness the way people mean it, but don't realize they mean it that way.

And then people do dumb things to fill this void like having extramarital affairs or drinking too much or taking a few too many drugs.

When what they really should be doing is saying, 'Well, I accomplished X, Y, and Z. Now it's time to start working on what my real plan should have been all along -- Double Secret Probation Plan ZZZ."

The human mind is built to confront challenges and muddle its way through puzzles and dilemmas. Just as dogs and cats need stimulation and challenge to keep them healthy -- they need to retrieve the ball or stick, they need to hunt the mouse or the toy mouse -- humans need that too. A well-fed dog with no running and retrieving is an unhappy dog. A well-kept cat with no new nooks to explore or perches to climb is a cat with a case of feline ennui.

I think soft, easy, and unchanging has been badly confused with "happy" and it's causing problems of economic, sexual, psychological, and spiritual dimensions.

BTW: Not that I'm interested in get rich quick schemes, but, just out of curiosity, how much would you pay for an App that alerts you everytime someone you don't like (an enemy, an ex-) posts something indicating a negative emotion or setback on FaceBook?

I'm calling it ShadenFaceBook.

Few Points from the Comments:

1. Government welfare payments reduce the "stick" of being pushed to move, reducing the appeal of the "carrot" of finding new and better employment.

2. Divorced families with kids will find it very hard to move very far from each other or else they're lose most custody (or, even if they keep partial custody, it will be very onerous to visit the kids).

3. This decline in economic migration seems to track pretty closely with the rise and then domination of the two-income family. In the one-earner model, well, just the dad had to find new work. But when there are two-earners -- and they need to keep earning two incomes -- then relocating makes less sense unless you are pretty confident you can find two superior jobs, which is obviously a shakier bet than just finding the one.

I don't know if the book answers these objections, as I haven't read it, and just heard of it an hour ago.

Posted by: Ace at 01:32 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 But I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies, like Texas or North Dakota.

Texas is full. Moose out front should have told you.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 01:34 PM (QFqpA)

2 Ace read a book called The Four Hour Workweek. No shit.

Posted by: Mega at February 28, 2017 01:35 PM (fsSge)

3 read the content.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 28, 2017 01:35 PM (KUaJL)

4 ...Are there pictures in this so-called book?

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:36 PM (wmaTe)

5 Top ten after 10 minutes?

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 01:36 PM (Jcg9Q)

6 From where I sit here, south of Houston, they are too moving here. From all over (judging from the license plates).

Posted by: Whatserface, the Pontificatress at February 28, 2017 01:36 PM (jVlNS)

7 Oh sorry Ace's clock is off.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 01:36 PM (Jcg9Q)

8 "The stat he focuses on here is the percentage of Americans who have moved out-of-state -- it's fallen by 50% since the 80s."

Why move when with sufficient welfare benefits you can be paid to remain where the jobs aren't?

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Purchase the 18th Edition of 'Ace Commands: The Style Guide for the Horde' at the Outra at February 28, 2017 01:36 PM (hLRSq)

9 Oh sorry Ace's clock is off.
Posted by: Country Boy

Usually about 8 minutes.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (QFqpA)

10 Interestingly in Rawls's original condition he assumes the people behind the "veil of ignorance" would be risk averse.
It's a major (but overlooked) part of his final conclusion (in the 1st edition mind you. The 2nd edition differs, but no one studies it.)

I argued with a professor for hours over whether this were true (it was a directed reading on Rawls.) It's starting to look like Rawls was right. But only insofar as we've created a welfare system that penalizes risk and rewards caution.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (dzmBR)

11 And then people do dumb things to fill this void like having extramarital affairs or drinking too much or taking a few too many drugs.

I thought you were going to give examples of dumb things there, and all you mention is a few hobbies.

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (CPk08)

12 *cues up John Cougar*

"I've nothing against big towns..."

Posted by: Anna Puma at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (4H105)

13 8
"The stat he focuses on here is the percentage of Americans who have moved out-of-state -- it's fallen by 50% since the 80s."

Why move when with sufficient welfare benefits you can be paid to remain where the jobs aren't?

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Purchase the 18th Edition of 'Ace Commands: The
Style Guide for the Horde' at the Outra at February 28, 2017 01:36 PM
(hLRSq)

Because we lost the concept of shame?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (jxbfJ)

14 But I want to be a Reality TV Star!

Posted by: rd at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (iT57s)

15 Twenty-some years ago I moved from eco-dead northern WI to dynamic Honolulu. A few years ago I moved back here to reality based northern WI to escape the coming disaster of the Blue Model.

Posted by: davidt at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (XoldI)

16 Yeah, I've done that moving to where the work is. Moved from AZ to California. It went well for quite a number of years, but then it was time to leave. Came to KS and love it.

Posted by: HH at February 28, 2017 01:38 PM (DrCtv)

17 "But I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies, like Texas or North Dakota."

Sounds a little like Kevin Williamson's article from a few months ago, but with less smug ass-holery.

Posted by: Benji Carver at February 28, 2017 01:39 PM (OD2ni)

18 The pursuit of happiness; not the catching of happiness.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Purchase the 18th Edition of 'Ace Commands: The Style Guide for the Horde' at the Outra at February 28, 2017 01:39 PM (hLRSq)

19 I think there's some definite truth in this. I also think it starts in childhood. Kids aren't allowed to take risks anymore. They can't roam the neighborhood or ride their bikes outside of their parents' field of vision for fear of police and CPS intervention. They can't climb trees and all the jungle gyms have been taken down for fear of liability. Recess time for unstructured play is all but dead. Kids, especially boys, aren't allowed to DO anything in school but sit quietly with their hands folded for fear of detention, or worse, medication into quiet submission. They take these lessons with them into adulthood and are docile, fearful, and excessively risk-averse.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 01:39 PM (0mRoj)

20 I don't know anything about this guy or where he is getting his info from, but people are in fact moving out of traditional blue States like NY and CA and moving to traditional red States in TX and the South.

And they are doing it in droves. I just hope they leave their union loving socialism in the North.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at February 28, 2017 01:39 PM (mpXpK)

21 "You deplorable fly-overs need to move or die," said the guy over the world wide web, his message broadcast in milliseconds to the poor hindi in rural Kerala ...

"da'fuq?"

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 28, 2017 01:39 PM (4YGWz)

22 there's only 4 chapter in the book, 1st hour, 2nd hour, 3rd hour, and 4th hour.

Posted by: morigu at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM (gU+/s)

23 "The stat he focuses on here is the percentage of Americans who have moved out-of-state -- it's fallen by 50% since the 80s."

Why move when with sufficient welfare benefits you can be paid to remain where the jobs aren't?
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Purchase the 18th Edition of 'Ace Commands: The Style Guide for the Horde' at the Outra at February 28, 2017 01:36 PM (hLRSq)

Yeah. Plus, some states make you wait and "establish residency" before you can collect bennies.

Plus, you know, moving sucks. There's packing boxes, and renting trucks and, you know, lifting stuff involved.

Eh.

(an aside: I did recently -- a few years ago -- pack up and move to a new state. Actually has been pretty awesome so far.)

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM (wmaTe)

24 >>>From where I sit here, south of Houston, they are too moving here. From all over (judging from the license plates).

fair enough. But there are a lot of people who are kind of stuck in places with low economic advantage and for some reason are unwilling to go to texas (or north dakota, or wherever).

I'm not saying no one moves. Neither is Cowen. he's saying less move.

I read a biography of the head of detectives for Wells Fargo. Anyway, at the age of 17 or 18 he just told his dad he wouldn't be going to church (he didn't like all the time it took) and a month later he then announced he was going to make his fortune in California, going all the way from Ohio (or another easternish-state) back when moving across the country was serious business. I think, IIRC, he just barely got through that deadly pass a couple of weeks before the Donner Party got snowed in and cannibalized each other.

And a lot of people were doing the same. Some with better fortune, some with much less.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM (8rNrN)

25 "The stat he focuses on here is the percentage of Americans who have moved out-of-state -- it's fallen by 50% since the 80s."

Why move when with sufficient welfare benefits you can be paid to remain where the jobs aren't?

Ding ding ding!
The great Okie migration to Bakersfield was because there was nothing left and no welfare. They moved to where the work was.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM (QFqpA)

26 Good post. It is pretty simple, we used to have a society that said that a man (and this is most definitely not a gender exclusive argument) was most fulfilled when he had a challenge that he could prove himself against and overcome. Florence King has a great article on this "Matchstick Men."

The idea that a man could not be fulfilled by merely living off the fruit of his labors but by striving, and perhaps dying. If there is not risk, no chance for courage either physical or mortal, does not make of him a better man.

This is one of the reasons the military was seen as so important in years gone by. We chose our politicians, our leaders from amongst it's members because it said that this man had striven in some cauldron where death and life stood against him and had emerged victorious.

Not too terrible a way to order a society.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM (R7+kO)

27 1. A lot of people moved out of the rust belt in the 80s

2. There are shitloads of people arriving in Texas now. Way more than the 80s.

Posted by: Lord Sir x at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM (nFwvY)

28 Maybe it's the internet. I might could move and all, but I keep reading stories about what hellholes every place else is.

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at February 28, 2017 01:41 PM (di4sB)

29 This is about me, isn't it?

*hic*

Posted by: Shillary at February 28, 2017 01:42 PM (8ikIW)

30 I'm definitely not normal then.

My family moved a bunch (college professor father/divorce/remarriage), and then I moved a bunch on my own (college, Italy, grad school, and finally to SC for work).

I would say that the moves have forced me to mature faster than I might have wanted. Certainly moving to Italy, even with some financial help from my mother at the beginning, really forced a perspective on how money works in a household like nothing ever before.

Living 8 hours away from the closest free babysitter for our 2 year old has also made my wife and I more responsible with navigating essential expenses and cheaper ways to have fun.

That's not really the main thrust of the article, but thrift is a very important virtue that many people could use more of.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:42 PM (vur0q)

31 And Texas is too hot. And, frankly, ugly. Very ugly state.

North Dakota? Too cold.

California? Gorgeous state, but leftist shit hole.

I guess maybe "there's nowhere good to move" might be part of it.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:43 PM (wmaTe)

32 28 Maybe it's the internet. I might could move and all, but I keep reading stories about what hellholes every place else is.
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at February 28, 2017 01:41 PM (di4sB)

==================

But you can also get a job and apartment in a new place without ever visiting first, all through the Internet.

We really should be seeing MORE movement with the tools we have, not less.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:43 PM (vur0q)

33 and for some reason are unwilling to go to texas (or north dakota, or wherever).

+++

Nobody wants an old white guy or a Charlie in the box

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (di4sB)

34 Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM (8rNrN)

Boomers being in the "Sandwhich years" contributes some to this no doubt.

I recount my wife's slow move to a sort of paleo-conservatism (but never quite escaping that liberal feelz.) When it came to dealing with her disabled mother she'd say "there was a moment when I realized, despite all the supposed programs, no one was coming to help me and I had to do it myself." (Granted by "myself" she meant I had to go in crack skulls and make shit happen. But it's her family and credit where credit is due she was the architect of the plans I forcibly made reality.)

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (dzmBR)

35 People who are still underwater on their mortgages have a hard time getting rid of their houses to move. I (unfortunately) bought my house in 2008, and it's now worth just more than I bought it for.

Posted by: Crazywalt at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (OtFSb)

36 Ace also once read a tome called The Accidentally Posting Busty Lesbians Handbook

Posted by: Mega at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (fsSge)

37 I guess maybe "there's nowhere good to move" might be part of it.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes

I believe the state of Peruvia is going to give everyone 5 acres.

Posted by: Bruce at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (8ikIW)

38 "I recently read Tim Ferriss' book from a bunch of years ago, The Four Hour Workweek."

Chelsea Clinton read this book recently. Her reaction will surprise you.

Posted by: The MSM at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (OD2ni)

39 Some time ago, when I was juggling work and a lot of volunteer work, my husband said with a sigh, You have a full life. I asked him to clarify. He explained that I had many activities going on, with a lot of characters with their own stories, and so forth. It appealed to him because he was stuck in a rut, grinding out work at the desk all day, sometimes into the evening.

After a 4-month stint driving around the country, we spent 10 years city-hopping and working in our careers. It was amazing and exhausting - even addicting to throw off the old and take on a new learning curve. I now know that if I needed to do that again, I could. But it's nice to be rooted in a community, where we belong, where good stuff is required of us (no pressure, it's just the lasting or ephemeral good we decide to add into the world).

I'd recommend it. Cities aren't where it's all at, though. Small towns have an internal, organic beauty unmatched.

Posted by: JCL at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (GgH0v)

40 My family was military. The whole "tied to a place" thing is weird to me although I've stayed pretty put. It feels temporary to me though.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (Mc+44)

41 31 And Texas is too hot. And, frankly, ugly. Very ugly state.

North Dakota? Too cold.

California? Gorgeous state, but leftist shit hole.

I guess maybe "there's nowhere good to move" might be part of it.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:43 PM (wmaTe)

=====================

I've been to Texas once. Went with my wife and son to Dallas to visit some of her family.

I kind of loved it. I'd move there.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (vur0q)

42 he just barely got through that deadly pass a couple of weeks before the Donner Party got snowed in and cannibalized each other.

****************

Early bird gets the worm.

Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (fi5nC)

43 Sorry, I skimmed the piece here Ace (I'm at work). I think it might be a case of, the "trends" in this sort of thing essentially miss the mark, because each individual who makes an individual decision, makes it on any number of very hard to measure, smaller decision points.

Somebody stays in their home town because their kids are with mom 5 days a week, and if he wants to see them on weekends...

Mom is still living there, and she might die soon, but until she does...

I have a mortgage that is going to sink me if I try to get out of it, so...

The kids' schools, we like them, so...

And so on. Better job is not the only thing to consider, so the measurements get it wrong, because there's no way they couldn't get it wrong.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (TOk1P)

44 We used to be a country that DID things.

Now, we're a country that WATCHES things.

I often tell the story of the men who built the Hoover Dam. They loaded up everything they owned and their families and drove across the country to the Nevada desert.
Slept under their Model T's because that's all the shelter they had out there in the desert heat--all for the chance that tomorrow maybe they would get a job.

Today, we call those "jobs Americans won't do."

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (AmMfi)

45 Good insight, Ace.

I moved 6 years ago. Lots of work to do, but I'm up for new challenges. My wife, not so much.

There is a book about moving in the US, The Big Sort, about like-minded enclaves forming in America. That's part of the story also.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (u82oZ)

46 (an aside: I did recently -- a few years ago -- pack up and move to a new state. Actually has been pretty awesome so far.)

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:40 PM

You up in New Hamster these days?

I'd love to find something just over the border, but the pickin's seem slim.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at February 28, 2017 01:46 PM (p+Wdc)

47
I like where I live. I just wish many other people didn't suddenly realize it too.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 28, 2017 01:46 PM (ODxAs)

48 "Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating leaving a hometown just to become a Cosmopoplitan. I have nothing against hometowns. But I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies, like Texas or North Dakota.

That was an impression I had before this article, that what was once commonplace and just something an American man, woman, or family -- move to where the work is, take that chance, suffer that temporary dislocation -- just didn't seem to be happening much anymore.

It's not the moving that missed so much as the spirit and guts that makes the move thinkable in the first place."

On Good Friday 2012 I packed up my truck, my daughter (who I flew back later) and my dog and took off to Texas. I was 51 years old and on the verge of running out of unemployment and possibly being homeless. In March I had borrowed my daughter's Saturn and gone done for an interview, and gotten hired on the spot.

My truck, with over 200,000 miles on it, had timing issues. From Cincinnati thru Kentucky and Tennessee it was 80 mph down the hills, 45 mph up the hills. It wasn't pretty, but we got there ok.

I had never been to Texas before, and new nobody. It was time to make a radical change. Now the past few years have been quite a challenge, but I don't regret coming here one bit.

Tried to encourage my kids to do the same, but they're comfortable with what they know, even if it's the metro Detroit shithole.

If I can do it, anybody can.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 01:46 PM (Jcg9Q)

49 35 People who are still underwater on their mortgages have a hard time getting rid of their houses to move. I (unfortunately) bought my house in 2008, and it's now worth just more than I bought it for.
Posted by: Crazywalt at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (OtFSb)

******************

Very good point.

Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 01:46 PM (fi5nC)

50 Speaking from a male/father point of view the reason is simple but neither sex will admit this is a problem.

Men want to be fathers to their children first. With sole/primary custody going to mothers 80% of the time men become visitors and viewed as subhuman objects of ATMs for the ex spouses. That is close to 50% of the fathers out there. If they move out of state, they have zero infuence over their own children, will have to pay their ex wife more income a month while she is allowed to date and get remarried bringing in another father in the picture to replace old loser dad.

It is simple. It's sad that men don't have the balls to write about this and speak up about this because the state and society will destroy them if they do.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 01:46 PM (ksj3z)

51 Three years ago North Dakota had a severe housing shortage. Someone must have been moving there. As of the last quarter of last year they seemed to be unable to fill new hosing units as people had been moving back out. So there is that.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (SsblQ)

52 And I was joking a little, but it's actually pretty expensive to move.

That's definitely a barrier to some people. I mean, moving expenses aside -- you need first month, last month, security deposit for your new apartment. Immediately need to shell out hundreds of dollars for a new Drivers license and registration for your car, need to pay for food, etc. -- and that's all assuming you have savings and a new job to go to.

It's also hard to get a job from out of state. A lot of employers look at your resume and say, "you're applying to a job in TX, but you live in Ohio? Pass."

So it's... I don't know, it seems like it probably used to be easier to just up and move.

Again, I recently went through this -- it was kind of a PITA and took planning and savings.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (wmaTe)

53 The biggest damper on plans to move to brighter horizons: selling one's house. When we city-hopped, we didn't own a house. Now that we're rooted, we would have a harder time just hitting the open road like we used to. But, knowing us, we'd find a way. Gotta get creative. That's the sweet stuff of life - mapping a way.

Posted by: JCL at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (GgH0v)

54 Well, one contributing factor in the lack of movement is that for many jobs, you don't need to move "to them" in order to "do them".

The rise of remote workers has coincided with that time frame. Developers, inside sales, etc...

Posted by: Dr. Gorgonzola at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (ekDFV)

55 39 I'd recommend it. Cities aren't where it's all at, though. Small towns have an internal, organic beauty unmatched.
Posted by: JCL at February 28, 2017 01:44 PM (GgH0v)

======================

I know I just said that I loved Dallas, but I'm not actually sure how well I'd do in another big city.

I did Rome, and that was hard. It wasn't because of the language barrier which I mostly got past while living there, but the density of people. It was just too crowded.

I might not have thought through the Dallas bit as well as I needed to.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (6/J53)

56 Spot on, Ace, every word.

Posted by: Me at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (RYASC)

57 >>>We used to be a country that DID things.

Now, we're a country that WATCHES things.

...

yeah, i'm not a fan of how so much of the American identity is now wrapped up in spectatorship.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (8rNrN)

58 I live 900 feet from Delaware. So i get the tax free shopping and cheap booze without having to pack up and leave PA.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 01:47 PM (PNcou)

59 We don't move because, unless conditions are extremely bad, we have stable networks where we are. We have family and church and friends and nice greeter grannies at Walmart and a mailman who only steals the mail every other Tuesday.

So packing up and moving isn't worth it unless we're talking about poverty/homeless levels of extremely bad. Staying is economic sheltering in place.

Posted by: Prudie, one-named and unashamed at February 28, 2017 01:48 PM (al6UK)

60 he just barely got through that deadly pass a couple of weeks before the Donner Party got snowed in and cannibalized each other.

****************

Early bird gets the worm.

Yeah, but late bird gets the leg.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 01:48 PM (QFqpA)

61 C. S. Lewis' Surprised By Joy is an excellent read. In it he talks about the elusive nature of Joy - it is a by product of other things. I can't do his idea justice, but it's an excellent read.

Posted by: Beth M. at February 28, 2017 01:48 PM (kiy9d)

62 The Four Hour Workweek.

---

sounds exhausting

Posted by: B. Obama at February 28, 2017 01:48 PM (PNcou)

63 Wow, a lot to talk about here.

First off, I agree, people aren't moving to where the jobs are, and that's a problem. They are staying where the jobs are not, and demanding government fix that. The problem is one of worldview and attitude. What was once an American "can do" attitude that saw problems as opportunities and faced difficulty with ambition has become the typical old world whining about how bad things are and wishing someone would come along and do it for me so I don't have to do anything at all.

That's the core of the problem. And the whole thing about "happiness" is a symptom of it. We've come to think of our personal pleasure, comfort, and happiness as the purpose of life and end goal. That's our highest ambition: the next orgasm, the next smile, the next picture we can share on social media about how happy we are.

In short, our ambitions have become stupid, small, and animalistic rather than lofty, great, and ambitious: human. We seek the simplest and most personally and immediately pleasing goals rather than the most significant, meaningful, and long-term goals.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 01:48 PM (39g3+)

64 >>>Ace also once read a tome called The Accidentally Posting Busty Lesbians Handbook

read it? I wrote it.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:49 PM (8rNrN)

65 OT Boner Fest...

Trump tells Fox and Friends he won't fill unneeded federal positions because, "They're unnecessary."

Posted by: Dang at February 28, 2017 01:49 PM (8b+oT)

66 I often tell the story of the men who built the Hoover Dam...
Today, we call those "jobs Americans won't do."
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (AmMfi)
---------------------------------
Today we call those jobs America won't do.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 01:49 PM (SsblQ)

67 Yeah, but late bird gets the leg.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 01:48 PM (QFqpA)

**********

LOL

Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 01:49 PM (fi5nC)

68 You up in New Hamster these days?

I'd love to find something just over the border, but the pickin's seem slim.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at February 28, 2017 01:46 PM (p+Wdc)

yep!

and yeah, not as many advanced degrees jobs up here as in other parts of new england

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:49 PM (wmaTe)

69 Texas is great...except for all the damn Californians in BMWs.

Those people can go on back to their hellhole.

Posted by: Lauren at February 28, 2017 01:49 PM (ZUao0)

70 A bit more of self-challenging and risk-taking, from a personal perspective. My parents weren't quite bubble-wrap parents but at the same time were more restrictive of me than other kids in the neighborhood. The more damaging thing, though, was teaching me, whether consciously or unconsciously, that to try something and not instantly succeed was failure. Failure was shameful and a cause for scorn and humiliation, instead of a lesson on how to persist and improve. When you're conditioned with that, you become risk-averse in all manners of things in life because part of your core belief system is that failure - defined as lack of instantaneous success - is one of the worst things you can possibly do. So you stop trying.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 01:50 PM (0mRoj)

71 "Why move when with sufficient welfare benefits you can be paid to remain where the jobs aren't?"

Also, we need to be cognizant of a huge quiet shift in the entitlement state that began back in the 1990s. Remember Billy Jeff and "the end of welfare as we know it"?

Well, dependency on a government check sure didn't end.

What happened instead was that as welfare eligibility was tightened, there was a matching increase in applications for disability. While the administrative-law guidelines for approving those applications were loosened up. And a bunch of crooked lawyers and bent doctors spotted opportunity on the hoof.

Presto! The results speak for themselves.

http://tinyurl.com/h7kcj2a

Once someone's on disability, the idea of moving becomes less attractive. There's a ponderous paperwork process which must be undertaken with an interstate change of address, and the corresponding risk that their check might fall through the cracks.

There are also recertifications and renewals of disabled status, and given that a whole lot of these claims are bogus to begin with, and reliant upon a friendly doc who won't ask too many probing questions, the idea of moving somewhere and having to find a new MD who is simpatico is going to be unsettling to contemplate.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 28, 2017 01:50 PM (noWW6)

72 That's not really the main thrust of the article, but thrift is a very important virtue that many people could use more of.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:42 PM (vur0q)

This is a truly interesting point actually.

The wife and I aren't exactly "thrifty" but I'm continuously amazed that we apparently do as good or better than our friends with less money.

I remember talking to my mentor and noting that if we were going to leave I'd have to at least beat my wife's salary to even have a chance at convincing her to take the risk of trying to find new work. (In reality even that wouldn't be enough because my wife doesn't want to be without work regardless, but I digress.)

And she disclosed that her *starting* salary at the university was more than my wife made at the time. And I thought back briefly to her being concerned over how much a job offered that her husband got offered and I thought "seriously, at those levels any income I make is gravy."

Now admittedly, I offset childcare costs, (which they have) but the numbers in play at least covered that (post-tax) with more than my part time teaching brings in to spare.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 01:50 PM (dzmBR)

73 Couldn't the reduced moving rate just be a sign that things are better than they used to be?

If you've got the good life, why get off yer ass?

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 01:50 PM (PNcou)

74 Moved twice chasing work. From Upstate NY (near a former haunt of Vic's or so I'm told) to near Charlotte NC. From there to NH.

Loving it in NH. Would love it more if there was an impermeable wall on our southern border with Mass. though.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 01:50 PM (jxbfJ)

75 nd they are doing it in droves. I just hope they leave their union loving socialism in the North.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at February 28, 2017 01:39 PM (mpXpK

That's why the mayors of the big cities in NYS want refugees. I think I read where NYC has lost population for the first time. Most of the big upstate cities are getting smaller and smaller. The mayors want lots and lots of refugees....NY has the rural areas that are red, but Cuomo gives them casinos, to shut them up. And no fracking or new gas pipelnes to bring in that evil gas from PA....

Posted by: Colin at February 28, 2017 01:50 PM (ec2s9)

76 Lots of factors have changed since the 80's, Ace.

Jobs are more ephemeral these days
.

Posted by: chi-town Jerry at February 28, 2017 01:50 PM (2QWDA)

77 From the link: "Some of the decline in labor mobility may stem from the law itself, specifically the growth of occupational licensure. While once only doctors and medical professionals required licenses to practice, now it is barbers, interior decorators, electricians, and yoga trainers. More and more of these licensing restrictions are added on, but few are ever taken away, in part because the already licensed established professionals lobby for the continuation of the restrictions. In such a world, it is harder to move into a new state and, without preparation and a good deal of investment, set up a new business in a licensed area."

You've spoken of this before Ace, I believe. This thing that companies like Uber are breaking down and trying to destroy, this notion that the State must know everyone who is doing every job and must allow you to do a job ... It might not be a huge part of it, but it seems like it's definitely part.

For myself, making the move from the People's Republic of California to-well, okay the only-slightly-less-insane Seattle area involved having a job (software developer) that could easily take me from one to the next. In fact the company I worked for had offices in both places. It made the move super easy.

Would I have moved anyway? ... Well, since software developer doesn't involve licenses, sure. Job pickings up here were great at the time.

Now? I dunno. Now pickings are getting slimmer because payroll tax is insane, and if I was in a job that required getting some kind of bizzarro license, maybe I'd be stuck. Of course, part of me wants to believe I'd ALWAYS do the best thing for my future, but the other part of me knows that when the gov't makes it as scary as possible, it's liable that fear takes hold and turns "Lets go now" to "lets go ... later, when things are right"

Posted by: bob at February 28, 2017 01:51 PM (P3w3I)

78 Early bird gets the worm.
Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (fi5nC)

If you're the worm, sleep in.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 01:51 PM (0mRoj)

79 14 https://tinyurl.com/jbgugyq

Leonardo DiCaprio flew eyebrow artist 7,500 miles to do his brows for the Oscars
==========

The Chutzpocrosy runs deep on that one.

Posted by: scofflaw_x at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (y9ZJX)

80 My great-great grandparents walked to Oregon. They didn't like it and walked back.

Other side of them family, my great grandparents drove a wagon to Florida, didn't like it and moved back.

Both would probably have been better off if they'd not returned home, but at least they tried

I don't have a lot of patience with complaints about weather when 150 years ago there was no AC, no highways, no planes, etc and people literally walked across the country to find a better situation.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (Mc+44)

81 16 HH

Time to emphasize all the tornados, the constant wind, and Pat Roberts. Kansas is the flat-chested sister next to Colorado.

Kansas has lots of chiggers too. Move on, to Colorado or Missouri. Nebraska is right out.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (u82oZ)

82 cra.. On phone.. I'll finish when I get back to work.

Posted by: chi-town Jerry at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (2QWDA)

83
So its Fat Tuesday. My wife is making gumbo. This gives me happiness.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (ODxAs)

84 77 For myself, making the move from the People's Republic of California to-well, okay the only-slightly-less-insane Seattle area involved having a job (software developer) that could easily take me from one to the next. In fact the company I worked for had offices in both places. It made the move super easy.

Would I have moved anyway? ... Well, since software developer doesn't involve licenses, sure. Job pickings up here were great at the time.

Now? I dunno. Now pickings are getting slimmer because payroll tax is insane, and if I was in a job that required getting some kind of bizzarro license, maybe I'd be stuck. Of course, part of me wants to believe I'd ALWAYS do the best thing for my future, but the other part of me knows that when the gov't makes it as scary as possible, it's liable that fear takes hold and turns "Lets go now" to "lets go ... later, when things are right"
Posted by: bob at February 28, 2017 01:51 PM (P3w3I)

====================

Come to Charleston!

The Digital Harbor! (At least we're trying at it...)

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (vur0q)

85 All my family and in-laws are relatively close. My mother is 83. We still have one daughter in school. OTOH, Mr. BTEG did get out of Youngstown, OH, as fast as he could. We did live a few years in Columbus as opposed to Cleveland, but weren't happy in Co.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (FQKBL)

86 I once wrote an essayish type thing on my blog that I used to have (it's actually linked over in the sidebar - the blog, not the post, a dead remnant link for back in the days when we had blogrolls and such. The blog is most sincerely dead.) that was entitled "Captain Kirk was American."

It wasn't particularly insightful I guess. Wish I had a backup of it somewhere. So I will go all stream of consciousness here.

Sometimes we as a country remember who we are. Remember that Cadillac commercial? The one about driving on the Moon? Among other things. People - some people - really reacted to that positively. Kick ass!

But others felt it unnecessarily boastful, and not inclusive enough.

Because the people with broad shoulders who build big things were the wrong people, I guess.

A total tangent, but maybe not, but one reason why Hidden Figures didn't annoy me was because the characters, despite having a lot of reasons for grievance, didn't live like victims. They were proud to be American even if America wasn't necessarily proud of them. And their families and their churches backed them because they were patriotic.

We have an American President who says he wants America to be first. And we have "conservative" lights like Bill Kristol saying that is bad.

Eff Kristol. And eff all the people who think the President should be saying America Second! Or America Exactly Equal With Every Other Shithole People Have the Misfortune of Living In! Or whatever else it is they think should be in the President of the United States' heart instead of making America a great country.

Let's build some stuff. Big stuff, here, that people marvel at, and let's build some big stuff that goes where no Man has gone before.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (tewYv)

87 Couldn't the reduced moving rate just be a sign that things are better than they used to be?

If you've got the good life, why get off yer ass?
Posted by: Buzzsaw90

When 1 out of 3 are out of the workforce, how good can it truly be?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (QFqpA)

88 How many times are you supposed to watch the brass ring given to an import?

Posted by: DaveA at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (8J/Te)

89 68

yep!

and yeah, not as many advanced degrees jobs up here as in other parts of new england

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:49 PM (wmaTe)

Harry -Anywhere near the seacoast?
We so need to get a New England Horde meet-up organized.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (jxbfJ)

90 The most toxic and insidious lie being put out there since progressivism began was that men do not want to be fathers. Completely bullshit. Maybe a small minority but most are destroyed by the state and their proxies of enabling the goddess worship of single mothers.

Every time somebody gets close to speaking about the lack of fathers and how the state and mothers share the blame, Their lives are destroyed and they are made examples out of.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (ksj3z)

91 Coastal megalopolises with no-mans land in between.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (IqV8l)

92 I did Rome, and that was hard. It wasn't because of the language barrier which I mostly got past while living there, but the density of people. It was just too crowded.

I might not have thought through the Dallas bit as well as I needed to.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

I think Dallas had one of the lowest densities of large cities.

Posted by: Lord Sir x at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (nFwvY)

93 If you look at a labor participation chart from 1980-2000 the percentage of Americans working increased every year. Lose a job, find another. So people married, bought homes, had children.

In the year 2000 the labor participation chart shows the beginning of an unending decline until the present. Selling a home, paying taxes and commissions on sale, paying movers, etc... expensive proposition. Without a guarantee of employment waiting in new location an expensive gamble. So the divorce rate took off instead.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (ZFUt7)

94 At 44, I left the DC suburbs for a western state and a career change. Took a 66% cut in pay. Took me 10 years to get relatively even, but well worth it. I'd do it again in a heartbeat -- because I built this.

Posted by: Trouser Trout in a Barrel at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (Gvprl)

95 >>>That's the core of the problem. And the whole thing about "happiness" is a symptom of it. We've come to think of our personal pleasure, comfort, and happiness as the purpose of life and end goal. That's our highest ambition: the next orgasm, the next smile, the next picture we can share on social media about how happy we are.

i don't buy the put-down of hedonism, and didn't buy it in French's article either.

Most things that are good in life are also pleasurable. Working towards that pleasure is still working.

People don't work 50 or 60 hours per week just for the joy of working. They do so for the benefits of it.

I don't buy the idea that life is all about self-denial. It's about strategic self-denial in the pursuit of self-fulfillment.

But as someone said above, the fulfillment is in the pursuit of happiness, and not necessarily in the catching of it.

It's sad but inevitable that a courtship will always be more exciting and "happy" than a marriage. I think people need to know that, not so they avoid marriage, but so they know that that's normal and just the way it is, and if they want that excitement to return they have to start working on new stuff, either apart or together or a mix of both.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (8rNrN)

96 "But I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies, like Texas or North Dakota."

The social safety net has gotten a lot better than decades ago.

You can stay in your hometown, get food stamps, get subsidized housing, cable TV, internet, and play computer games all day long. If you can't get a girlfriend, there is always porn.

It's not much of a life, but it also doesn't require much effort, and you never have to wake up early.

This is related to the fact that an increasing number of working-age males have simply dropped out of the labor market (which has been a powerful, and long-term trend) - the benefits to working hard vs. sloth have gotten less, so a lot more people are choosing sloth.

Posted by: Elections Have Consequences at February 28, 2017 01:54 PM (Mrl1e)

97 92
I think Dallas had one of the lowest densities of large cities.
Posted by: Lord Sir x at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (nFwvY)

======================

That may be one of the reasons why I actually liked the feel of it.

I'm not 100% sure how I'd do with the necessary commutes, but that can be overcome, too.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:54 PM (vur0q)

98 I don't have a lot of patience with complaints about weather when 150 years ago there was no AC, no highways, no planes, etc and people literally walked across the country to find a better situation.

While wearing heavy assed wool.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 01:54 PM (QFqpA)

99 Generally, people don't like change.

Moving out of state is a HUGE change.

Easier when you're younger, much harder after a certain age, especially if you have elderly parents.

Also... if you're out of the workforce, Uncle Sugar takes care of you. So it's not a bad thing any more.

Posted by: shibumi, a rational single white female and kitteh servant at February 28, 2017 01:54 PM (J5mC3)

100 Leonardo DiCaprio flew eyebrow artist 7,500 miles to do his brows for the Oscars
==========

What causes eyebrow loss, and general douchbaggery?

Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (fi5nC)

101 Harry -Anywhere near the seacoast?
We so need to get a New England Horde meet-up organized.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (jxbfJ)

Yes.

RMBS has been threatening to put together a meet up for years now, but I think he's bluffing.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (wmaTe)

102 92 I did Rome, and that was hard. It wasn't because of the language barrier which I mostly got past while living there, but the density of people. It was just too crowded.

I might not have thought through the Dallas bit as well as I needed to.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

I think Dallas had one of the lowest densities of large cities.
Posted by: Lord Sir x at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (nFwvY)

I did Dallas.

Posted by: Debbie at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (7HtZB)

103 It took spirit and guts to move all the way from Endor.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (W8bn5)

104 Leonardo DiCaprio flew eyebrow artist 7,500 miles to do his brows for the Oscars

==========

The Chutzpocrosy runs deep on that one.

Posted by: scofflaw_x at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM (y9ZJX)

"Brow" saloons are big around here now. Several in walking distance of my quiet street...Koreans, much like the nail shops...I can't see how they all make a go of it. DiCaprio does look spectacular with those brows.../sarc

Posted by: Colin at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (ec2s9)

105 Something like 4,000 people per week are moving to Texas, time to find a different destination - we're full.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (7ZVPa)

106 Whether I'm happy or not is utterly irrelevant. It doesn't matter one way or another. What matters is whether I'm doing right or not, if I am being true or not. Happiness comes and goes, it is subjective and situational. Its almost entirely self-focused and based on me. Ideally we as human beings should be mostly outwardly-focused, and caring about the happiness of others. And usually, surprisingly, that will bring joy to us in the process. Not as a goal, but as a side product.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (39g3+)

107 It's also hard to get a job from out of state. A lot of employers look at your resume and say, "you're applying to a job in TX, but you live in Ohio? Pass."

I was sending out resume's all over the South from Michigan. The guy that hired me said "if you can get down here, I'll interview you." So I rolled the dice and took off.

2,400 miles round trip for a job interview.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (Jcg9Q)

108 I'm gonna poke the bear and likely regret it:

This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:56 PM (vur0q)

109 44
"We used to be a country that DID things. Now, we're a country that WATCHES things."

Good point. Each Sunday I used to sit in a pew, among the audience, and watch our pastor strut across the stage, wagging his finger at us for not doing more, not being one of the faithful workers in the field. Then he'd invite the "professional" praise team to crank up the sound and get some blood flowing. And we'd clap. Like the spectators they groomed us to be.

So I left the sanctuary. And only went back for Sunday school - a perfect size for learning and growing and helping one another. Nothing too showy. Not a professional this or that among us. Just real people. Human doings.

Posted by: JCL at February 28, 2017 01:56 PM (GgH0v)

110 Gah. More scapegoating of men and fathers. I'll pass. It's tired and bull shit

Let me know when Time allows men and fathers to be treated as human beings and not implied cowards and terrible providers.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 01:57 PM (ksj3z)

111 "That's why the mayors of the big cities in NYS want refugees. I think I read where NYC has lost population for the first time."

Not only in NY. Look at Illinois.

Even with Rahm-bo declaring "sanctuary city" status and trying to get as many immigrants, legal or otherwise, packed into Shitgarglo, the enumerated population of Crook County has fallen to levels last seen in the 1920s.

Graveyard voters aren't counted in the Census. Who knew?

Posted by: torquewrench at February 28, 2017 01:57 PM (noWW6)

112 >>>Whether I'm happy or not is utterly irrelevant. It doesn't matter one way or another. What matters is whether I'm doing right or not, if I am being true or not. Happiness comes and goes, it is subjective and situational. Its almost entirely self-focused and based on me. Ideally we as human beings should be mostly outwardly-focused, and caring about the happiness of others. And usually, surprisingly, that will bring joy to us in the process. Not as a goal, but as a side product.

please

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:57 PM (8rNrN)

113 31 And Texas is too hot. And, frankly, ugly. Very ugly state.
North Dakota? Too cold.
California? Gorgeous state, but leftist shit hole.
I guess maybe "there's nowhere good to move" might be part of it.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:43 PM (wmaTe)

Texas does get hot, but so does Clownifornia, although the humidity in Texas is killer. I wouldn't live there without a pool, but family members who have fled there over the past 8 years love it and swear they would never, ever, live in Clownifornia again. I don't blame them.

Posted by: the Butcher at February 28, 2017 01:57 PM (AGJqR)

114 "the benefits to working hard vs. sloth have gotten less, so a lot more people are choosing sloth."

If you want to see where this ends up, just look at Great Britain, where being on welfare for generations has become a way of life for a significant fraction of the population.

A lot of kids growing in Great Britain don't know a single adult who works at a regular job - it has become a subculture.

Posted by: Elections Have Consequences at February 28, 2017 01:58 PM (Mrl1e)

115 >>>This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.

yes, and he added lots of contempt and oikophobic hatred, too. For free!!!

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:58 PM (8rNrN)

116 I like the idea of SchadenFaceBook

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 01:58 PM (Om16U)

117 I don't buy the put-down of hedonism, and didn't buy it in French's article either.

You should, because hedonism is a trap. Everyone knows this, from personal experience. What made you happy before will not do so again to the same degree -- or at all -- because the happiness was based on that experience and the novelty of it. You can't duplicate that. So you reach for ever greater experiences.

Focus outside yourself, and you can find happiness that endures, because it stops being your purpose and becomes a fruit of doing something else, a natural result.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 01:58 PM (39g3+)

118 108 I'm gonna poke the bear and likely regret it:

This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:56 PM (vur0q)

Yeah many reasons to despise that cosmopolitan white knight POS.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 01:58 PM (ksj3z)

119 I'm gonna poke the bear and likely regret it:

This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:56 PM (vur0q)
-----------------------------
Along with a dash of spite and cup of venom. Williamson is an elitist-want-to-be ass.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 01:58 PM (SsblQ)

120 >>>You should, because hedonism is a trap. Everyone knows this, from personal experience. What made you happy before will not do so again to the same degree -- or at all -- because the happiness was based on that experience and the novelty of it. You can't duplicate that. So you reach for ever greater experiences.

Focus outside yourself, and you can find happiness that endures, because it stops being your purpose and becomes a fruit of doing something else, a natural result.

...

please

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (8rNrN)

121 Dallas might not be crowded, but the traffic is pretty bad. Not Houston bad (kill me) but on par with Austin.

Ft Worth's not nearly as annoying unless you're up north towards Alliance/ Keller.

If we were to move back to the Metroplex I'd probably pick Bedford or Colleyville.

Posted by: Lauren at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (ZUao0)

122 That excerpt leaves out some of the most important reasons why people are region locked:

1. Housing costs. If you move from, say, basically anywhere other than the urban coastlines to San Francisco or Boston or LA or the like, you cannot freaking afford to do it. Let's say you had a fully paid off home that sells for $210,000 in Ohio. That's a nice house there. That is not even approaching a down payment on a 890 sq ft condo in a bad part of town in the supposedly booming metro areas.

If the point of moving is to increase your financial prospects, moving to a place with 15 times the cost of housing is a stupid idea. You'll never catch back up.

That's assuming you can sell your house in the first place. As far as renters, if you are moving to a higher cost area, you need to have a few thousand dollars up front in addition to moving costs. That adds up quickly and oh don't worry you'll get it back because you'll be making more is difficult when you're looking at 2-3 year amortization on that ROI.

2. Family. If you are divorced and sharing custody, good luck getting court approval to move more than say 20 miles away. Do you want the new job or do you want to see your kids ever again? That's a very real problem and I rarely see it addressed in these discussions.

Then there's the aging of the population. Take my situation. I enjoy where I live now but this is not an area to which I would have ever moved given my own choice and it's not the most financially advantageous for me. But you know what's worth far more than money? My parents. I am here to take care of them until they die. And that's fine. That's my choice and I have no regrets about it. But lumping me into a group that isn't willing to move to chase opportunities ignores that I did exactly that. The difference is that the opportunity I chose was personal, not financial.

Also presume pterodactyl shrieking about licensing regs making portability of skills night to impossible here.

I'm a person who has lived in a number of places and who will probably be moving on from here. But I'm also a person who likes stability. The notion of moving every few years to chase a few dollars more makes my skin crawl.

There's far more to life than strictly economics. That's the big issue I have with these pieces. Yes, if all the jobs have left, get up and go. But why should I chase a few dollars more for increased stress and decreased quality of life? Because other people think I should? That's nervy of them.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (mf5HN)

123 It could be good for families, though. I always found it disheartening to hear people say "My Mom lives in (state), My brother in (another state), we only see each other on Thanksgiving." Of course, if your family is full of assholes, you're glad to have a few states between you.

Posted by: josephistan at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (7HtZB)

124 Wait...he flew her in to tweeze his eyebrows.

Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (fi5nC)

125 I've long had a theory that the farther West an American family travelled, the more courageous or outrageous they were. Some folks decided to come here to escape Europe, and settled within sight of the Atlantic, while others of a more adventurous nature, kept going farther and farther.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (7ZVPa)

126 This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:56 PM (vur0q

Williamson wrote like a condescending asshole who didn't even acknowledge the possibility of other factors. That was his major problem.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (dzmBR)

127 "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

Spock, immediately after telling his kinsmen that T'Pring be, in fact, Sponn's bitch, and not Spock's.

Posted by: General Zod at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (Bdeb0)

128 >>>>>Come to Charleston!
The Digital Harbor! (At least we're trying at it...)
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 01:52 PM

I appreciate that haha. Thanks, but I'm actually pretty happy in Seattle at the moment. My vote don't count for shit, but I do enjoy the culture up here (I'm a big gamer)

California was a bad culture fit, but the politics down there are just batshit crazy most days, and the taxes will eat you alive. I'm not actually living in downtown Seattle, so the city politics don't really affect me, and the state doesn't tax income.

But even with all that ... if I didn't have a job waiting for me, and on _top_ of that I thought it was going to be some effort to get through gov't red tape to get a job ... man I don't know. I'd like to think so, but I just don't know.

Posted by: BoB at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (P3w3I)

129 And Texas is too hot. And, frankly, ugly. Very ugly state.
"

Agreed. Really ugly here. And nasty. Y'all wouldn't like it here one bit.
So stay away. I hear NY is nice, though.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at February 28, 2017 02:00 PM (MINbv)

130 Happiness is an attitude.

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:00 PM (Om16U)

131 I think Dallas had one of the lowest densities of large cities.

Posted by: Lord Sir x at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (nFwvY)

I was born and raised on a farm.

As big metro areas go, DFW has been pretty decent overall. Still, I'm ready to get out into a small town southwest of here, maybe putting 100 miles or more between me and DFW/Austin/Waco/San Antonio.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 02:00 PM (Jcg9Q)

132 Why move when you can stay where you are and go on welfare?

Posted by: Jaqen H'ghar at February 28, 2017 02:00 PM (5fSr7)

133 Happiness is an attitude.
--

correction - it's not exactly an attitude, but you have to have an attitude of openness towards attitude to feel it.

Can't explain.

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (Om16U)

134 *ok time for workout #2*

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (ksj3z)

135 There is only one, uniquely American story--the Western.

Danger, excitement, opportunity, adventure, riches, etc.--a whole new life-world never seen before in human history.

But, underlying it all was the message of success from self-reliance.

Think of all the old-world stories of success: They're all tied to paths through the existing power.
He finds he's a long-lost prince.
She marries the prince.
Etc.
The Greeks and the Romans, at least, had the warrior path. But, it was still through the state.

Only in America, did we tell the story that the ordinary, average man could find success by his own two hands.

But, the old power has come back. It always would.

And it brings the lies that the only way to success, the only way to be happy, is through them.

You have to have your social security.
You have to have your college degree.
You have to have your government license.
You have to have what only they can offer.

That's why our freedoms are dying.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (AmMfi)

136 Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (mf5HN)

She nails it. In a much more detailed and articular way than my H-bomb of a mind can

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (dzmBR)

137 Read the book. Title should have been "How to be a dick"

Posted by: West at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (1Rgee)

138 "Brow" saloons are big around here now. Several in walking distance of my quiet street...Koreans, much like the nail shops...I can't see how they all make a go of it. DiCaprio does look spectacular with those brows.../sarc
Posted by: Colin at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM (ec2s9)

***********

I think the Koreans are into "threading".

Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (fi5nC)

139 2. Family. If you are divorced and sharing custody, good luck getting court approval to move more than say 20 miles away. Do you want the new job or do you want to see your kids ever again? That's a very real problem and I rarely see it addressed in these discussions.

This.

One of the hidden costs of divorce. If you were still married, and wanted to move, well, you could talk it through and even if one spouse was not thrilled about it, they kinda had to go along.

But divorced, forget about it.

I don't know what percentage that plays in our lock of mobility. But it is certainly a factor.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (tewYv)

140 >>> "the benefits to working hard vs. sloth have gotten less, so a lot more people are choosing sloth."

yup. plus, time is money. at some point, a guaranteed government stipend plus every day of the week off is an economically superior choice.

Now, actually, that kind of life will lead to unhappiness of the kind I'm describing -- nothing to work towards, nothing changes, just waiting for the check on the 1st and 15th.

But people don't realize that and are just looking at full freedom from obligation plus some money vs. a bit more money but 50 hours of work per week and are deciding, just based on those factors, the first is an empirically stronger choice.

And it's hard to argue with them.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:02 PM (8rNrN)

141 The "eustress" thing... I suppose it's a bit like estrus, but it's not just for ewes anymore!

Posted by: Zettai Ryoiki at February 28, 2017 02:02 PM (kP16F)

142
Something else, the average age of a white American is now in the mid 50's. Starting to 'settle' at that age.

We sometimes forget age here, being perpetually 29.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at February 28, 2017 02:02 PM (ZFUt7)

143 137 Read the book. Title should have been "How to be a dick"
Posted by: West at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (1Rgee)

That's referring to the 4 hr workweek, BTW.

Posted by: West at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (1Rgee)

144 The bottom line is this: we were not put on this earth to be happy or please ourselves. Period.

The world is a broken, messed up place. Everything we try to do and accomplish somehow goes wrong or doesn't turn out how we planned or hoped. That's how life is, and every adult should know this -- I suspect does know this, but some delude themselves. Trying to make believe this is not true and shape your life in just the right perfect way which you can somehow have everything just right and be happy al lthe time will always, without fail, end in misery and failure that depresses you even more.

There is no perfect system, no wonderful technique, no magic pill which makes this go away. Life is just like that. That's not super cheerful or "motivating" but its reality and the sooner people grasp that, the sooner they can get on with living lives that take this into account rather than continually fooling themselves and crashing in utter failure over and over. That spirals either into depression, madness, or demented denial.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (39g3+)

145
It use to be when you moved to a new state or city it was an opportunity at a fresh start and you could recreate yourself.Now everything you've ever done follows you around for life so why bother.

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (lKyWE)

146 130
Happiness is an attitude.

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:00 PM (Om16U)

happiness is an attitude you choose to have

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (0O7c5)

147 If you can work remotely, you can live anywhere [tolerable].

Posted by: JCL at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (GgH0v)

148 Texas isn't ugly everywhere. East Texas is really pretty and so is Hill Country and even Far West in its own way. And while Galveston's not great, there are some good beaches further south.

But, yes, if your concept of Texas is the Dallas/Austin/Houston triangle, that's not particularly attractive unless you're really into the plains look.

Posted by: Lauren at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (ZUao0)

149 Ace getting "threaded" would cost a pretty penny.

Posted by: Strelnikov at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (fi5nC)

150 Agreed. Really ugly here. And nasty. Y'all wouldn't like it here one bit.
So stay away. I hear NY is nice, though.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at February 28, 2017 02:00 PM (MINbv)

NY is a gorgeous state. Just full of assholes, unfortunately. But it is very nice.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (wmaTe)

151 If you've ever lived in North Dakota and spent a couple winters there, you would fully understand why some people aren't too keen on living there permanently.

Like me.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at February 28, 2017 02:04 PM (0xzXo)

152 150 NY is a gorgeous state. Just full of assholes, unfortunately. But it is very nice.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (wmaTe)

===================

I could never deal with the winters.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:04 PM (vur0q)

153 >>.
One of the hidden costs of divorce. If you were still married, and wanted to move, well, you could talk it through and even if one spouse was not thrilled about it, they kinda had to go along.

But divorced, forget about it.

...

yeah, lot of government choices shaping personal decisions here.

i know several people who have fallen into this trap. One stayed where she didn't want to be because her ex-husband could basically veto an out of state move, and an ex-husband left, and has to do a LOT of travel to see his kids. (And he does travel a lot for this purpose -- and of course it takes a lot of time.)

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:04 PM (8rNrN)

154 Texas is full of giant spiders that will steal your children and eat your tiny eco-friendly cars.

Stay away Northerners and Californians you WILL NOT like it here.

Posted by: Batterup at February 28, 2017 02:05 PM (DE9cR)

155 Happiness is an attitude.

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:00 PM (Om16U)

Happiness is a warm gun.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 28, 2017 02:05 PM (KUaJL)

156 happiness is an attitude you choose to have

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (0O7c5)

need t-shirt with that

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:05 PM (Om16U)

157 "Texas is full of giant spiders that will steal your children and eat your tiny eco-friendly cars. "

This is straight up fact. Wolf spiders.

Posted by: Lauren at February 28, 2017 02:05 PM (ZUao0)

158 This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.

I agree, and his basic thesis was good, but he turned it into an elitist, condescending attack on rural little people and how we'd all be better off without them. It was a miserable article he should have never sent out.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:05 PM (39g3+)

159 I could never deal with the winters.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:04 PM (vur0q)

I like winter, so that's not an issue for me.

It's really the people and the govt of NY that turn me off.

Just like MA -- overall, a gorgeous state. Beaches, skiing, lots to do. But full of Massholes.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:06 PM (wmaTe)

160 153 yeah, lot of government choices shaping personal decisions here.

i know several people who have fallen into this trap. One stayed where she didn't want to be because her ex-husband could basically veto an out of state move, and an ex-husband left, and has to do a LOT of travel to see his kids. (And he does travel a lot for this purpose -- and of course it takes a lot of time.)
Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:04 PM (8rNrN)

======================

My parents divorced when I was young. We were living in Florida and my mother moved us about 2 hours south. That worked for about 7 years until my dad got a job in Virginia.

He held two mortgages for more than a year just so he could see us once a month. It was brutal for his finances.

He only stopped when my mother remarried and moved to Indiana. We flew from Indiana to Virginia once a month for 3 years after that, when I graduated high school.

My dad's a college professor and was a department head at the time, so he could sort of afford it. I can't imagine what it would have been like for a lower middle class guy.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (vur0q)

161 It use to be when you moved to a new state or city it was an opportunity at a fresh start and you could recreate yourself.Now everything you've ever done follows you around for life so why bother.

Reminds me of the story Sam Spade told Brigid O'Shaughnessey in Maltese Falcon about the guy who was tired of his old life, just walked out of it one day to start anew in Spokane, and ended up with almost exactly the same life after a short time.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (39g3+)

162 NY is a gorgeous state. Just full of assholes, unfortunately. But it is very nice.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (wmaTe)

When I was doing the Detroit to Rochester drive chasing some chick I thought the area between Buffalo and Rochester was beautiful.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (Jcg9Q)

163 speaking of happiness, I was at wallyworld and this sweet white wired lady had a cart with a biggish cockapoo (I thought it was a poodle at first) in it.

I said hello, and we chatted, and I petted the doggeh who was so well-behaved and it just made my day

happiness is a sweet doggie

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (Om16U)

164 >>>137 Read the book. Title should have been "How to be a dick"

it's definitely me-focused.

But a lot of stuff, like about meetings and never-ending email back-and-forths, is kinda hard to argue with.

Time might be the most important resource we have. Being a bit firm on the point that one insists on quick, decisive email decisions and not long group banter over where to eat lunch is kind of dickish but kind of not.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (8rNrN)

165 I've just taken up being a driver for Uber, on the side. I've got a 30 mile commute each way and figure if i can score a rider each way, that'll pay for my gas.

Surprised that i Like It. You're actually helping someone out (while the money passes invisibly). Thus far (3 days) it's made me happier.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (PNcou)

166 159
I like winter, so that's not an issue for me.

It's really the people and the govt of NY that turn me off.

Just like MA -- overall, a gorgeous state. Beaches, skiing, lots to do. But full of Massholes.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:06 PM (wmaTe)

====================

I'm betting winters make it better. Harder to see the assholes when you're stuck behind a 10 foot snow drift.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (vur0q)

167 You know things are bad when Ace has to intentionally spell Cohen wrong to keep from triggering certain people here.

...I'm looking at you CBD and Insomniac

Posted by: garrett at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (oXKWd)

168 This is straight up fact. Wolf spiders.
Posted by: Lauren at February 28, 2017 02:05 PM (ZUao0)

Yes!

DIREWOLF spiders roam freely all throughout Texas, they clog up the freeways on their hunt for electric vehicles to devour in their dripping fangs

Posted by: Batterup at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (DE9cR)

169 It took me more than four hours to read the book.
Maybe that was the point...?
It's the journey.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (0tfLf)

170 144
"The bottom line is this: we were not put on this earth to be happy or please ourselves. Period."

Are you a Christian? If you are, how can you reconcile that we're to be a light to the world, to reflect Christ's joy, to show transformed lives of hope if we believe that God never intended us to be happy? Without witnessing our joy as evidence, how will a non-Christian ever feel compelled to ask us the reason for our joy? I'm probably missing your point, which is about happiness, more fleeting.

Or is your world view: If I keep lowering my expectations, I will never be disappointed, let down? I've practiced this myself. It's not helpful either, from my experience.

Earlier someone mentioned Surprised by Joy (CS Lewis). It deals with these dilemmas.

Posted by: JCL at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (GgH0v)

171 I think divorce is basically a bad thing
maybe a necessary evil

but if it didn't exist ppl would think twice before getting hitched

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (Om16U)

172 When I was doing the Detroit to Rochester drive chasing some chick I thought the area between Buffalo and Rochester was beautiful.
Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (Jcg9Q)

Yeah, upstate New York is one of the more beautiful places I've been to in the US. I mean, in general, I'm a big fan of NY and New England. I like seasons. And winters. And I don't even mind shoveling snow!

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (wmaTe)

173 "Come to Charleston! The Digital Harbor!"

There are things I like about SC. A lot of things I politically don't like. At least in CA the local "Republican" party makes no pretense of anything other than pathetic marginalized bleating ineffectuality, so I don't have to get angry about what they would be doing or not doing when in power.

Whereas if I were in the Palmetto State I'd be regularly infuriated by, e.g., Nikki Haley's craven jihad against the Confederate flag after the nutcase church shootings.

Or Tim Scott meekly accepting the dubious premise that there's been "an increase in hate crimes" under Trump (as opposed to an increase in ALLEGED hate crimes, the majority of which turn out to be cynically faked).

And... Miss Lindsey. Ugh.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (noWW6)

174 159
I could never deal with the winters.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:04 PM (vur0q)

I like winter, so that's not an issue for me.

It's really the people and the govt of NY that turn me off.

Just like MA -- overall, a gorgeous state. Beaches, skiing, lots to do. But full of Massholes.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:06 PM (wmaTe)

my husband wants to move there.....his mom's side is from there..... it has happy childhood memories for him......i could never live there....it's ok to visit but that's about it for me.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (0O7c5)

175 I moved to Texas 17 years ago.

I've got the itch like nothing else to move again.

For adventure.

There's too much to do in this country to _not_ want to go.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (AmMfi)

176 Huh.

Having been an army brat, I don't think moving out of state is a huge change at all. In fact, I think everywhere in the US is pretty much like anywhere else with just a few details different. Hell, my parents lived all over the world but on post and that wasn't even all that different. I really don't see how Texas would be all that different than anywhere else. Are we talking weather? I mean, seriously, we live in climate controlled homes and own coats, how is that a thing?

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (Mc+44)

177 165 I've just taken up being a driver for Uber, on the side. I've got a 30 mile commute each way and figure if i can score a rider each way, that'll pay for my gas.

Surprised that i Like It. You're actually helping someone out (while the money passes invisibly). Thus far (3 days) it's made me happier.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:07 PM (PNcou)

=====================

Neat.

I've thought about doing it to kill some alone time on weekend mornings, but I've never done it.

How much of that fare do you get as a driver?

Also, I know that many drivers do both Uber and Lyft to up their ability to get passengers. It could be something to think about.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (vur0q)

178 116 I like the idea of SchadenFaceBook
Posted by: @votermom @vm

Reading it will give you SchadenBitchFace.

Posted by: Roy at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (VndSC)

179 Amazon web hosting servers are down

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (e8kgV)

180 Wolf spiders.

Posted by: Lauren

---

I don't have too much problem with the Wolf Spiders, the Texas Funnel Web Spiders scared them off.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (7ZVPa)

181 oops gotta run again

for the 'ettes!!!

get the free book on my bog today
it is a clean paranormal mystery romance by a conservative Texan mom

Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (Om16U)

182 All I know is that right now it would be a mistake to move, which I might not recover from. That might change.

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (di4sB)

183 I'd move to Northern California just as soon as they break from SoCal. Beautiful there.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 28, 2017 02:10 PM (0tfLf)

184 Immigration has a big effect on the willingness of non-immigrants to move to boomtowns by bidding down the price of labor to the point that it's not worth uprooting your life and starting over.

Posted by: JerryC at February 28, 2017 02:10 PM (Hk6eB)

185 happiness is an attitude you choose to have

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (0O7c5)

I just finished "The Happiness Advantage" which is a short book about how we get happiness and success backward. We think if we are successful we will be happy, but the science (SCIENCE Miss Hashimoto!) says it actually works the other way. If you are happy, you will be successful. The author almost but not quite says fake it till you make it. Has some exercises and processes for being happy.

What is weird, though, is that this book is almost a word for word copy (okay, not literally, but the concepts are very, very similar) of Scott Adam's book How to Fail at Almost Everything.

Not really up for a compare and contrast essay now, but if you read them both in close proximity, it is amazing how much they are the same.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:10 PM (tewYv)

186 146: "happiness is an attitude you choose to have"

Amen!

Posted by: JCL at February 28, 2017 02:10 PM (GgH0v)

187 Not that I'm doing great or anything

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at February 28, 2017 02:10 PM (di4sB)

188
I have no answers for these philosophical questions, I just hope to laugh as much as I can. It seems to me, and I am sure I over romanticize the past history of the U.S., but so much more seems to actually be out of one's control as "progress" occurs.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 28, 2017 02:10 PM (ODxAs)

189 I'm betting winters make it better. Harder to see the assholes when you're stuck behind a 10 foot snow drift.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (vur0q)

Heh.

Well, I always get a kick out of driving in Boston in the winter. You'd think they'd never seen snow before. Every year it's a fucking emergency every time they get more than 6 inches of snow. Shuts the whole city down.

You know who doesn't give a fuck about snow? Quebecois. They can get 18 inches of snow in Montreal, and it's all cleared and the cities back to normal in like 4 hours.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (wmaTe)

190 If you are, how can you reconcile that we're to be a light to the world, to reflect Christ's joy, to show transformed lives of hope if we believe that God never intended us to be happy?

I kind of pointed out how that works out in previous posts: be outwardly focused and you will find you are happy in helping others. However its more than that. Happiness is my feelings at the moment mostly in terms of getting what I want or something that pleases me. Joy is another thing entirely; its about an inner peace and comfort, a worldview change, a difference in understanding the purpose of life and how to behave which reflects in your outlook and behavior.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (39g3+)

191 This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.

yes, and he added lots of contempt and oikophobic hatred, too. For free!!!

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 01:58 PM (8rNrN)

If he had simply stated this:

"People - you've been lied to. Politicians - everyone of them - have lied to you. Job training programs aren't going to bring jobs back to these towns. Only you, the people can do that. You will either have to leave and go where jobs are or figure out yourselves how to lure jobs in. The politicians won't do it for you and the big corporations don't care enough."

Then he wouldn't be reviled as he is; instead he decided to give those people a verbal curb-stomping. Williamson got exactly what he deserved.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Purchase the 18th Edition of 'Ace Commands: The Style Guide for the Horde' at the Outra at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (hLRSq)

192 173 "Come to Charleston! The Digital Harbor!"

There are things I like about SC. A lot of things I politically don't like. At least in CA the local "Republican" party makes no pretense of anything other than pathetic marginalized bleating ineffectuality, so I don't have to get angry about what they would be doing or not doing when in power.

Whereas if I were in the Palmetto State I'd be regularly infuriated by, e.g., Nikki Haley's craven jihad against the Confederate flag after the nutcase church shootings.

Or Tim Scott meekly accepting the dubious premise that there's been "an increase in hate crimes" under Trump (as opposed to an increase in ALLEGED hate crimes, the majority of which turn out to be cynically faked).

And... Miss Lindsey. Ugh.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (noWW6)

====================

There are problems with the Republicans in SC, and those don't make the top 10.

Do you have any idea how much you have to go through to get a gun in this state?

You'd think it was a newly red state instead of a state that's been red since...pretty much forever in political years.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (vur0q)

193 but if it didn't exist ppl would think twice before getting hitched

Uh, yeah. You should think twice or maybe 100X before getting hitched.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (Mc+44)

194 Holy smokes! Noisy thunderstorm here in the East Valley, AZ. First lightning bolt caused a brief power bump; shut down my computer for a few seconds, but it came back up on its own.

Lots of thunder, some heavy rain, and a scattering of hail.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (WDdjT)

195 The draft effectively ended in 1973.

The draft had the effect of forced migration

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 28, 2017 02:12 PM (e8kgV)

196 Oh joy, massive internet outage on east coast.

Drudge.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 28, 2017 02:12 PM (J+eG2)

197 189 Heh.

Well, I always get a kick out of driving in Boston in the winter. You'd think they'd never seen snow before. Every year it's a fucking emergency every time they get more than 6 inches of snow. Shuts the whole city down.

You know who doesn't give a fuck about snow? Quebecois. They can get 18 inches of snow in Montreal, and it's all cleared and the cities back to normal in like 4 hours.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (wmaTe)

======================

You should see central Florida with a light dusting.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:12 PM (vur0q)

198 "But I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies'

Family sizes have shrunk. My brother lived in my mothers basement until he was 35...I left home at 17.

If my brother hadn't been in the way then living in my mothers basement and working a crap job might have been an option.

Posted by: harrywr2 at February 28, 2017 02:12 PM (UTwq4)

199 I moved to Texas 17 years ago.

I've got the itch like nothing else to move again.

For adventure.

There's too much to do in this country to _not_ want to go.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (AmMfi)

I'm ready to move elsewhere within Texas if the opportunity presents itself.

Or Gulf Shores, Alabama. I love that place.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 02:12 PM (Jcg9Q)

200 >>.Oh joy, massive internet outage on east coast.

Drudge.

...

just in time for Trump's SOTU, huh?

HE'S TRYING TO CENSOR THE TWITTER SNARK SQUAD!!!

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (8rNrN)

201 my husband wants to move there.....his mom's side is from there..... it has happy childhood memories for him......i could never live there....it's ok to visit but that's about it for me.....
Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (0O7c5)

Where? Upstate NY? I mean you have to deal with living in NY, and being surrounded by people from NY, but otherwise it's not a bad place.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (wmaTe)

202 The ratio of fathers to mothers committing suicide after divorce/separation is 8 to 1. Please spare me and other fathers the bulkshit when we lose our chikden that it is our fault because we simply chose not to be happy. We are hard wired to be active and present fathers first and foremost.

*contInues second workout of the day*

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (ksj3z)

203 Somebody stays in their home town because their kids are with mom 5 days a week, and if he wants to see them on weekends...

Mom is still living there, and she might die soon, but until she does...

I have a mortgage that is going to sink me if I try to get out of it, so...

The kids' schools, we like them, so...

And so on. Better job is not the only thing to consider, so the measurements get it wrong, because there's no way they couldn't get it wrong.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 28, 2017 01:45 PM (TOk1P)

Yep. I moved to Florida and then to the DC area when I was in my 20's and then moved back to Wisconsin to be with my family. Family ties are really important to me.

So I'm of two minds about this. I can see ace's point. OTOH, it seems like the left has worked hard to undermine the traditional family and family ties to make us dependent on the state. Now I don't want to be dependent on my family - but if something awful happened and I needed help, I'd rather turn to them for help than to the government.

There's a certain contradiction in terms at the heart of American conservativism, because on the one hand it has always been about individualism and seeking out new frontiers....but pushed to an extreme, it results in rootless individuals with shallow ties to each other and no sense of history. How many people in Manhattan and LA are from flyover country and hate their hometowns and the family they left behind?

Burkean Conservativism is about preserving traditional communities and families and values. But push that to an extreme and you have stagnation.

In a free society, you should have the option to chose either. Some will be the homebodies who will be happy living in the town they grew up in, surrounded by an extended family. Others will want to trailblaze - some will want to trailblaze and then return home.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (ZM2xo)

204 >>> At least in CA the local "Republican" party makes no pretense of anything other than pathetic marginalized bleating ineffectuality, so I don't have to get angry about what they would be doing or not doing when in power.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (noWW6)

--
Man aint THAT the truth. When I was younger, I went to a "Young Republicans Meeting" and it was basically a bunch of old Republicans standing in front of a bunch of younger people interested in politics and shrugging:
"Well, we just, we have to raise taxes, I mean we can't print money." <-- California House Republican

Posted by: BoB at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (P3w3I)

205 The thing is about where you move: every state has drawbacks and benefits. Every place has aspects of it that suck. Oregon for example has a wonderful mild climate and almost indescribable natural beauty. But its run by leftist knuckleheads and rains a lot. You take your choices and do the best you can with what you're given.

If your need is a job, then you go where the jobs are. How much you like the state is kind of irrelevant. That's like bitching that the food you're given for free is not halal.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (39g3+)

206 Another thing that may have been be mentioned is the dynamic of a two income family. It's not worth it to relocate unless you can secure two jobs to replace the two that you're leaving. This is not the 1950s where dad was the sole income earner, and thus the major decision maker.

Posted by: Lurker primus at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (DhPrq)

207 @154 Texas is full of giant spiders that will steal your children and eat your tiny eco-friendly cars.
-----------------

You do realize that all you're going to do is attract a group of eco-nuts to defend the spiders.

Posted by: junior at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (nsZ+m)

208 I've thought about doing it to kill some alone time on weekend mornings, but I've never done it.

How much of that fare do you get as a driver?

Also, I know that many drivers do both Uber and Lyft to up their ability to get passengers. It could be something to think about.

---
Started to sign up Friday at lunchtime, did my first ride at seven that night. You keep 75% of the take. Going to try early morning weekends too. People want rides to the airport. I heard that idea, but getting enough uber action so far. Most riders have been girls which is nice.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (PNcou)

209 I defended Williamson for this article, because he really was saying, "Get up and move if your town has no where to work." Not that white people should "die."

However, when he made a complete asshole out of himself over being a nevertrumper (Hillary supporter), I refuse to ever defend him again. He can suck a bag of witless ape dicks on an escalator.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (Mc+44)

210 Drudge.

...

just in time for Trump's SOTU, huh?

HE'S TRYING TO CENSOR THE TWITTER SNARK SQUAD!!!
Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (8rNrN)

Thank god minx 0.7 alpha is only suitable to run on Niuevian servers and could never run on Amazon's!!

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (wmaTe)

211 I kind of pointed out how that works out in previous posts: be outwardly focused and you will find you are happy in helping others. However its more than that. Happiness is my feelings at the moment mostly in terms of getting what I want or something that pleases me. Joy is another thing entirely; its about an inner peace and comfort, a worldview change, a difference in understanding the purpose of life and how to behave which reflects in your outlook and behavior.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:11 PM (39g3+)

Are you channeling Marcus Aurelius?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (493sH)

212 I went from from small Iowa town to Chicago Loved it and it's been successful but I wanna go back now Or a beach

Posted by: Big swingin Al at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (vO6yV)

213 "A well-fed dog with no running and retrieving is an unhappy dog."

You have clearly never met a pug.

Posted by: Scout at February 28, 2017 02:15 PM (ukad2)

214 208 Started to sign up Friday at lunchtime, did my first ride at seven that night. You keep 75% of the take. Going to try early morning weekends too. People want rides to the airport. I heard that idea, but getting enough uber action so far. Most riders have been girls which is nice.
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (PNcou)

======================

I'm betting that if I did it, I'd be taking people from downtown Charleston to the airport a lot.

Handful of rides over a few hours, make $50 or so. Could be a nice little bit of pocket change.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:15 PM (vur0q)

215 Relocating to a country whose language you don't speak (or don't speak well, anyway) is a scary proposition.

But enough about the Canadians.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:16 PM (LTHVh)

216 Last night i gave a girl an Uber ride down to the local Five-guys and back home again. I think this will generate many humorous anecdotes before i get knifed to death.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:16 PM (PNcou)

217 171 I think divorce is basically a bad thing
maybe a necessary evil

but if it didn't exist ppl would think twice before getting hitched
Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (Om16U)

An encapsulation of "A Defense of Rash Vows" by Chesterton.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 02:16 PM (R7+kO)

218 I think this excitement over happiness idea explains my parents habits of vacation. Only stay one to three nights at a place before hopping to the next European capital or Mexican town. Keep your itinerary full and diverse. Also, never stay so long as to exhaust all there is to see in a city. That way you have a reason to come back in the future, or imagine doing so.

Longing around on a beach all week sounds kinda boring to me, actually.

Posted by: Serious Cat at February 28, 2017 02:17 PM (Uy6ri)

219 146: "happiness is an attitude you choose to have"

---

Surly is the attitude i choose to have.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:17 PM (PNcou)

220 In fact, many such people look back on their years of struggling as happier than their more-stable present, after they've mostly "made it."

You know what the best part of being young is? Being young.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (LTHVh)

221 OK.. back to a real keyboard..

This is not at all a surprise for lots of reasons.. Jobs come and go in the blink of an eye these days.. why would I pull up stakes, pull the kids out of school, etc.. just to go get a job that may be gone in two years?

We've been shipping all our jobs overseas for decades. There is almost no industry insulated from this.. at the whim of the owners/shareholders, your job could be in Vietnam next month or done by a maquiladora just south of the border.

At the same time, the safety net for Americans has grown exponentially. When I was starting out in the 70's, you had no choice but to move if jobs dried up in your area.. now, you can go on the dole.. pretend you got back trouble and you are on disability for life. Don't marry.. just co-habitate and you both can get entitlements as singles.. one with kids..

They've made it too easy just to stay put.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (so+oy)

222 179 Amazon web hosting servers are down
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 28, 2017 02:09 PM (e8kgV)

See? That's why Bezos needs IT guys from Iran & Somalia so these things won't happen!

/

Posted by: josephistan at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (7HtZB)

223 216 Last night i gave a girl an Uber ride down to the local Five-guys and back home again. I think this will generate many humorous anecdotes before i get knifed to death.
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:16 PM (PNcou)

So many potential euphemisms in one post.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (R7+kO)

224 "The ratio of fathers to mothers committing suicide after divorce/separation is 8 to 1."

More of that "male privilege" stuff we always hear about.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (noWW6)

225 I went from from small Iowa town to Chicago Loved it and it's been successful but I wanna go back now Or a beach

Posted by: Big swingin Al at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (vO6yV)

As I said above, I'm a big fan of Gulf Shores, Alabama. I think it's a hidden gem. With Gulf Shores, there's no need to go to Kallyfornia or Florida. Their beaches CAN'T be that much better. Great place, and a small town to boot.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (Jcg9Q)

226 This is what Kevin Williamson was talking about in his much hated article.

yes, and he added lots of contempt and oikophobic hatred, too. For free!!!

Posted by: ace

It wasn't just contempt. It was the enthusiastic condemnation that would quite easily fit the UN's definition of advocating ethnic cleansing.

Don't believe me? Replace the demographic descriptions in the article with 'native American,' or 'inner city blacks.'

Would he ever written such an article? Objectively impossible.

Willamson and Kristol are sociopaths.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (4YGWz)

227 Cowen is overlooking an obvious exclamation. The divorce rate and out-of-wedlock birth rate are significantly higher than they were 50 years ago. People can't move because of custody issues.

Posted by: Penn Teacher at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (qCXXE)

228 "I'm not advocating leaving a hometown just to become a Cosmopolitan."

I had to leave my hometown to *buy* a Cosmopolitan (the cocktail, not the mag).

Posted by: Slo-Pitch Whiffer at February 28, 2017 02:19 PM (5JlYa)

229 Longing around on a beach all week sounds kinda boring to me, actually.
Posted by: Serious Cat at February 28, 2017 02:17 PM (Uy6ri)

Same here. I could do it for a day, tops. I need to see interesting, historic things.

Posted by: josephistan at February 28, 2017 02:19 PM (7HtZB)

230 I'm happy because I met and married my soul mate. I'd live with him in a tent anywhere in the world (as long as he killed all the spiders first.) That's all I need to be "happy." The rest is all window dressing.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:20 PM (Mc+44)

231 Amazon web hosting servers are down

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy

Thanks for that. I'm running all kinds of diagnostics here because their fire stick is telling ME that I don't have an internet connection.

I HATE incorrect error codes and messages.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at February 28, 2017 02:20 PM (ZFUt7)

232 Upstate NY is very lovely. During the brief non-winter bits.

It could be good for families, though. I always found it disheartening to hear people say "My Mom lives in (state), My brother in (another state), we only see each other on Thanksgiving." Of course, if your family is full of assholes, you're glad to have a few states between you.
Posted by: josephistan at February 28, 2017 01:59 PM (7HtZB)

My brother left for Arizona when he was 20 and he has moved all over to go where the jobs are. He works in aeronautics. He and the SIL sold their house in SC a few months back to go to CA and they dumped the house money into a very lovely fifth wheel and the truck to pull it and are living in that. He is exactly what that article wants.

You know what else that means? I've basically not seen my brother for more than a few days a year for over two decades now. Between my work and his work and making sure to spend time with his in laws, there's just not been the time to do it.

That's a cost. It's a true, tangible cost. Note that in all the stories about oh we packed up the family and moved, the family means the wife and kids, and, maybe, maybe the elderly mother. It's not siblings. It's not extended family. It's narrowing the family down to just the nuclear family and treating that as the only unit.

Which, again, is fine but stop acting like that's not a cost that is being paid and it's being paid by others who have no part in the decision.

Not to say that people shouldn't move. I fear I'm coming across like that and that is not my intent at all. But there are a panoply of costs that appear to be ignored in strict economic reckoning.

Also I dispute the notion that Rawls is ever right about anything other than accidentally.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:20 PM (mf5HN)

233 Texas is full of giant spiders that will steal your children and eat your tiny eco-friendly cars.
-----------------

You do realize that all you're going to do is attract a group of eco-nuts to defend the spiders.

They love tasty, tasty eco-nuts.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 02:20 PM (QFqpA)

234 Another reason many well- off employees moved in the 1950's, for example, was that they were transferred by their employers for the purpose of professional development and for promotions in the corporate hierarchy. Now fewer stay with the same employer that long (for a variety of reasons) and many fewer employers care about internal professional development. And, as mentioned above, many of these moving employees were of single-earner families making moves easier. Moves were not always to strike out on something new.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (SsblQ)

235 Part of the irony of where I live is that my wife and I pay a premium price for our house because within a couple of miles of a beach. If we lived in Summerville, which is much further inland, the same house would cost about 2/3 as much.

But, neither of us like the beach.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (vur0q)

236 IMO this is why people get all pumped up and emotional about their home town sportball team winning - the adrenaline and excitement are a weak substitute for the eustress of chopping off your enemy's head.

Posted by: motionview at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (m4hrt)

237 Heh. Storm over, Sun shining brightly. That quick.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (WDdjT)

238 I'm betting that if I did it, I'd be taking people from downtown Charleston to the airport a lot.

Handful of rides over a few hours, make $50 or so. Could be a nice little bit of pocket change.

---

3 rides yesterday = $36, before taxes and gas. Good on nights when wife works till 9 PM. Nobody needs me to move anything heavy.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (PNcou)

239 RoyalOil (Post 135) that is an interesting and obvious thing about which I've never thought, thank you

Posted by: Lurker primus at February 28, 2017 02:22 PM (DhPrq)

240 You know what the best part of being young is? Being young.

---

morning wood

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:22 PM (PNcou)

241 238
3 rides yesterday = $36, before taxes and gas. Good on nights when wife works till 9 PM. Nobody needs me to move anything heavy.
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (PNcou)

====================

And Uber isn't even paying for your medical insurance.

Those bastards.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (vur0q)

242 It wasn't just contempt. It was the enthusiastic condemnation that would quite easily fit the UN's definition of advocating ethnic cleansing.

Don't believe me? Replace the demographic descriptions in the article with 'native American,' or 'inner city blacks.'

Would he ever written such an article? Objectively impossible.

Willamson and Kristol are sociopaths.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (4YGWz)

This is one problem I have with the hate for KW. Is he a hateful little prick? Yes. Should he be condemned for floating his idea? Nope.

We have gotten too used to the language of the left. Discussing something, even if it is a bit off color, should not be grounds for the adrenaline to flow. At no point, should reading an article trigger anyone or anything. Discussion is vital.

He's a hateful prick. His reasoning is sloppy and he lets a bit too much of his own experiences color his logic and rhetorical ability. I won't read him anymore, but everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (R7+kO)

243 I'd live with him in a tent anywhere in the world

Yeah women say that but when it comes down to actually being with a really poor guy they all walk away.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (39g3+)

244 >>>I think this excitement over happiness idea explains my parents habits of vacation. Only stay one to three nights at a place before hopping to the next European capital or Mexican town. Keep your itinerary full and diverse. Also, never stay so long as to exhaust all there is to see in a city. That way you have a reason to come back in the future, or imagine doing so.

Longing around on a beach all week sounds kinda boring to me, actually.

...

both sound wrong to me. I think one thing a day, or two smaller ones, is plenty. In any new place there is plenty to just stumble across, which you can't do if you've got the Louvre at 8, Eiffel Tower at 12, Shakespeare & Co at 2:30, that graveyard at 5, etc...

just walking down a street in a new place is interesting enough. just picking a bar, cafe, at restaurant more or less at random is kind of interesting. (Even if it turns out to not be great -- at least you weren't expecting anything based on the Fodor's blurb.)

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (8rNrN)

245 "The ratio of fathers to mothers committing suicide after divorce/separation is 8 to 1."

---

Cchicks whine. Dudes get things done.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (PNcou)

246 SC has a few problems for a Southern State but Nikki Hailey and the flag is not one of them. She pretty much had no choice after that asshole shot those people.

The real problems are a high gov worker/taxpayer ratio. This results in higher than normal taxes for the South.

Blue laws, although they are getting better in some locals.

Open primaries.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (mpXpK)

247 See, and I thought the only thing that mattered about "place" was where the work was and then the commute. All the other window dressing is just that.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:24 PM (Mc+44)

248 235 Part of the irony of where I live is that my wife and I pay a premium price for our house because within a couple of miles of a beach. If we lived in Summerville, which is much further inland, the same house would cost about 2/3 as much.

But, neither of us like the beach.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (vur0q)

There is a fix for that. Perhaps not an easy one, but you point to it in your comment.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 02:24 PM (R7+kO)

249 She pretty much had no choice after that asshole shot those people.

Oh bullshit on that. The location was the compromise.

She moved it because she wanted to move it.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:25 PM (LTHVh)

250 Cadillac commerical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8

This has Trump written all over it.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:25 PM (tewYv)

251 See, and I thought the only thing that mattered about "place" was where the work was and then the commute. All the other window dressing is just that.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:24 PM (Mc+44)
------------------------
And schools, apparently.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 02:25 PM (SsblQ)

252 I wonder how big a correlation there is between the not moving stats and the end of the draft.

I'm not joking.

Think about it. The draft ended a few years before I became eligible.

Before that, even in peace time, millions of young men were drafted into the Army or Navy and they absolutely left home.

Or I could be insane again.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at February 28, 2017 02:25 PM (X+nFp)

253 246
Blue laws, although they are getting better in some locals.

Open primaries.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (mpXpK)

======================

I want to buy spirits after 7 Monday through Saturday and on Sundays!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:25 PM (vur0q)

254 https://is.gd/ztyiMD

For the engineer types

Posted by: Bigby's Typing Hands at February 28, 2017 02:26 PM (1FqsX)

255 248 There is a fix for that. Perhaps not an easy one, but you point to it in your comment.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 02:24 PM (R7+kO)

=====================

There are other reasons to live in the part of town we live in. We are one of the best school districts in the area here. Another reason for the premium, of course.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:26 PM (vur0q)

256
3 rides yesterday = $36, before taxes and gas. Good on nights when wife works till 9 PM. Nobody needs me to move anything heavy. Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (PNcou)

How does the insurance work? Does your regular car insurance cover the passengers if you're using your vehicle commercially?

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at February 28, 2017 02:26 PM (lKyWE)

257 Sorry I'm late to this thread. But there's a lot of truth in Ace's post.

First thing I did when I got my degree was move out of state to pursue a job. Alas, it was in Los Angeles. I knocked around quite a bit, finally settling on the other side of the country in Northern VA. So I've lived in both armpits of the country.

I recall a discussion in college where the prof was talking about labor mobility...a really dynamic and strong economy has a mobile workforce. I learned it and I lived it.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at February 28, 2017 02:27 PM (tVWQB)

258 Some of us are not moving to Texas because we are already in Texas.

I moved from Michigan to Houston when I was 24. Good move.

Moved from Houston to Palestine, TX when I was 38. Meh move.

Moved back to Houston when I was 47. Great move.

Why move again? Especially since I am in my 60s.

All my kids moved from Houston to the DFW area for better jobs. Maybe when I am in my 80s I will move up there to be with them.

If they are still there, and not back down in Houston.

As for leaving Texas? Why leave a place where heaven is a local phone call away?

Posted by: Sea Writer at February 28, 2017 02:27 PM (VNpq9)

259 >>Which, again, is fine but stop acting like that's not a cost that is being paid and it's being paid by others who have no part in the decision.

For most of my childhood, my dad worked for IBM. The joke in those days was that IBM stood for I've Been Moved which happened for us every couple years.

It was how the company operated, you got promoted and you moved or you got out. Period. It only ended when my sister and I were in our senior and junior years of high school and sending my dad back to MIT they wanted him back at HQ. He asked to decline a promotion and let us finish schooland they said take it or get out. He got out.

There is a significant price to be paid for the whole family when you are moving around a bunch and it's hard to quantify in dollars but it is very real.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 28, 2017 02:27 PM (/tuJf)

260 I'd live with him in a tent anywhere in the world

Yeah women say that but when it comes down to actually being with a really poor guy they all walk away.

If 50 Shades of Gray involved an out of work redneck instead of a billionaire, it'd be just another episode of Criminal Minds.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 02:27 PM (QFqpA)

261 253 I want to buy spirits after 7 Monday through Saturday and on Sundays!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:25 PM (vur0q)

I liked NV liquor laws. 24/7

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at February 28, 2017 02:27 PM (mpXpK)

262 Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at February 28, 2017 02:03 PM (lKyWE)
-----------

Most insightful thing I've read in this thread. Amd there's been some good stuff

Posted by: Mega at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (fsSge)

263 Yeah women say that but when it comes down to actually being with a really poor guy they all walk away.Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:23 PM (39g3+)

I've always been able to pull the whole boat myself as needed. Of course, this particular guy wouldn't ever be poor, so the eventuality doesn't exist because of who he is to start with. If he were suddenly poor because "aliens" or some weird "The Stand" type thing, I'd live with him in a tent if he were somehow not able to go into the Hilton suite I commandeered.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (Mc+44)

264 "His reasoning is sloppy and he lets a bit too much of his own experiences color his logic and rhetorical ability."

His 'reasoning' was emoting and he received a like response. I think I gave an example of a logical take in #191 and I think an article written off of mine would receive a different response than Williamson's.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Purchase A Plethora or Pungent Pithy Phrases at the Outrage Outlet! at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (hLRSq)

265 One of the hidden costs of divorce. If you were still married, and wanted to move, well, you could talk it through and even if one spouse was not thrilled about it, they kinda had to go along.

But divorced, forget about it.

I don't know what percentage that plays in our lock of mobility. But it is certainly a factor.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:01 PM (tewYv)

Obviously I can't say for sure, but considering that divorce rates in America are somewhere from 30 to 50%, depending on how you slice the numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a factor in a significant number of cases.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (0mRoj)

266 The ratio of fathers to mothers committing suicide after divorce/separation is 8 to 1

That may have more to do with how men mourn than anything. Women tend to fall apart right at first then get busy doing other stuff. Guys tend to be really mad at first, then spend the next 6th months in deepening depression.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (39g3+)

267 Oh joy, massive internet outage on east coast.

Drudge.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice
----------

Maybe that's why I can't seem to collect my email.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (ZO497)

268 266 The ratio of fathers to mothers committing suicide after divorce/separation is 8 to 1

That may have more to do with how men mourn than anything. Women tend to fall apart right at first then get busy doing other stuff. Guys tend to be really mad at first, then spend the next 6th months in deepening depression.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (39g3+)

=====================

I wonder how custody affects that as well.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (vur0q)

269 It use to be when you moved to a new state or city it was an opportunity at a fresh start and you could recreate yourself.Now everything you've ever done follows you around for life so why bother.

Damn. The Guidance Counselors were right.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (LTHVh)

270 "232 Upstate NY is very lovely. During the brief non-winter bits."

It is lovely. Being in Saratoga on a nice August day is like paradise to me. But my wife just hated the long winters.

Posted by: Benji Carver at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (OD2ni)

271 268 266 The ratio of fathers to mothers committing suicide after divorce/separation is 8 to 1

That may have more to do with how men mourn than anything. Women tend to fall apart right at first then get busy doing other stuff. Guys tend to be really mad at first, then spend the next 6th months in deepening depression.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (39g3+)

=====================

I wonder how custody affects that as well.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (vur0q)

Or who initiated the divorce.

Posted by: josephistan at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (7HtZB)

272 But I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies, like Texas or North Dakota.

North Dakota is one of the nicest, most welcoming, friendliest, most diverse and beautiful states in the whole of the U.S. and, in fact, world.

Texas, though, Yuck! Ugh! Phooey!!!

Everybody's dirt poor trash who eat roadkill and are one step away from cannibalism.

Wild animals everywhere. Packs of coyotes eat 1 out of 5 children. Rattlesnakes kill 3 out of 20.

There are wasps as big as your thumb. Scorpions and tarantulas own the night. Well, except for the wild killer boars and mountain lions.

Stampedes of out of control cattle clog 6 out of 27 roads at any one time.

And the oil! My God, the oil! Every time you turn on your water faucet, you get oil running out for the first 5 minutes.

You'll get used to the taste of crude oil. It's in everything!

And cancer all over the place!

No, far better to go live in North Dakota.

Forget about Texas. They even laughed when Hillary lost the bastards!!!!

Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (vZ9Fw)

273 In addition to more mobility in the past, there were fewer internet outages too.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (SsblQ)

274 Also I dispute the notion that Rawls is ever right about anything other than accidentally.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:20 PM (mf5HN)

It was an accident though. Prior to the modern welfare state people took risks when the possibility for reward was there. My ancestor looked up said "Shits gonna hit the fan when Prussia moves in, I'm skedaddling to America."
Came here with very little. Until recently his decedents owned hundreds of acres of farm land (all sold off as we gave up farming.)

His Great^x-Grandson is well enough off to be a stay at home dad (read: failed academic).

HUGE.
Few do this anymore.
My sister finally said "fuck it" quit her job and opened her own boutique closing store. That was a huge risk (backed in part by my parents offering a safety net.) Her friends were stunned, I mean why would you take that risk. And yet something like this used to be commonplace if not even considered normal.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (dzmBR)

275 217 171 I think divorce is basically a bad thing
maybe a necessary evil

but if it didn't exist ppl would think twice before getting hitched
Posted by: @votermom @vm at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (Om16U)

An encapsulation of "A Defense of Rash Vows" by Chesterton.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 02:16 PM (R7+kO)

Set marriage aside for a minute. Guess what fathers have zero right to be fathers but still must pay for the state and other men to raise their child. Picking winners and losers based on the interests of gender and the state.

Then when yOu do get married the the state (federal, state and local) along with hundrends of billions of dollars worth of feminist and Marxist influence picks and rewards the mothers for ditching dad and even abusing dad and the kids. Again picking winners and losers based on gender and gynocentric science that is laughable to call science there days.

So again allow fathers to be active and present fathers and not sub humans. And I promise our society will begin to heal itself after a generation.

I'm militant about this common sense action and issue that plagues our country. Read far too much and observed far too much in my life . (I blame the spineless men for continuing to throw men and boys under the bus to appease the OG snowflakes: feminists.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (ksj3z)

276 I think I gave an example of a logical take in #191 and I think an article written off of mine would receive a different response than Williamson's.

I agree, your argument was much better laid out and would have accomplished his goals without the stupid contempt he brought.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (39g3+)

277 270 It is lovely. Being in Saratoga on a nice August day is like paradise to me. But my wife just hated the long winters.

Posted by: Benji Carver at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (OD2ni)

I liked the Winter in Saratoga.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (mpXpK)

278 And, as mentioned above, many of these moving employees were of single-earner families making moves easier. Moves were not always to strike out on something new.
Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (SsblQ)

There's something I didn't consider because it's never been a consideration for me.

If you are married or even just in a committed relationship, and both of you are working, particularly as professionals, you have to find two jobs, not one.

So let's say Person A could have a better job in new locale for 10% increase but Person B would take a 15% paycut and move down on the ladder and housing is 5% more, you're looking at a net 10% decrease, not any kind of economic increase. That's assuming you can both find jobs.

Grrrrr and here I'm back to sounding like OMG NEVER MOVE EVER EVER.

No. Because there is more to life than money and maybe Person A getting the dream job is worth more to both of you than just money in which case pack up that crap and head out that door.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (mf5HN)

279 If 50 Shades of Gray involved an out of work redneck instead of a billionaire, it'd be just another episode of Criminal Minds.Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 02:27 PM (QFqpA)

Except the point of the stupidest book ever written was that she could reform him with love and that he changed because he desired that love.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (Mc+44)

280 Which, again, is fine but stop acting like that's not a cost that is being paid and it's being paid by others who have no part in the decision.

Not to say that people shouldn't move. I fear I'm coming across like that and that is not my intent at all. But there are a panoply of costs that appear to be ignored in strict economic reckoning.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:20 PM (mf5HN)

That is the blessing and curse of being a military or Foreign Service family. You join to serve your country, and you are sent hither and yon. The benefits are living around the world, and allowing your children to grow up in a number of cultures. The detractors are that your kids grow up without the extended family relationships that create traditions and memories that create other types of bonds.

Plus, if your kid is like my daughter, they thought that Gilligan's Island was a new show, and wondered when the new episodes were coming out, when (she) returned to the states as a tenth grader, because AFRTS.

That didn't mark her as an outsider. Nope, not at all. On the plus side, she has a great sense of humor, and was able to laugh about it,, once someone put her some wisdom on current television.

Posted by: moki at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (gfRCk)

281 I didn't read through all the comments, so maybe someone has mentioned this.

Many people are noting the problem of divorced families and a father not wanting to move away from his children.

There is the additional problem of intact families with two incomes. You lose your job but your wife/husband has theirs. Do you move and force both of you to find new employment?

It is yet another cost from encouraging two income families- less mobility.

Posted by: makatta at February 28, 2017 02:31 PM (Y7Qzg)

282 It was how the company operated, you got promoted and you moved or you got out. Period. It only ended when my sister and I were in our senior and junior years of high school and sending my dad back to MIT they wanted him back at HQ. He asked to decline a promotion and let us finish schooland they said take it or get out. He got out.

Way it is in a lot of major corporations. Mine included.
IF you are upper management material, out you go to a sales region. After a couple of years, back to HQ for a product manager position. After a couple of years, back out to a regional sales manager position. Then back to HQ as a junior vp. Then, an MBA later, up the ladder they go.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 02:31 PM (QFqpA)

283 Massive internet outage?It's Trump and the Russians again!

Posted by: steevy at February 28, 2017 02:31 PM (r/0kC)

284 Ace, if you expand your idea to Twitter, you could call it Schitter ...

Posted by: ShainS at February 28, 2017 02:31 PM (or5ed)

285 >>>nd, as mentioned above, many of these moving employees were of single-earner families making moves easier. Moves were not always to strike out on something new.
Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 02:21 PM (SsblQ)

There's something I didn't consider because it's never been a consideration for me.

...

really good point I didn't consider either.

This trend corresponds almost exactly with the two-income family becoming the standard.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:31 PM (8rNrN)

286 @270
Saratoga is my home town. Used to be more of a small town, but still a great town.
I get there (and elsewhere Upstate) when I can.
The part about NY being filled with a-holes is not exactly correct.
There are plenty of em, but they tend to gravitate to the bottom of the state, like the toys at the bottom of the cereal box.

Posted by: BOD tied to a brick, lobbed over the Bush compound wall at February 28, 2017 02:32 PM (QtQaN)

287 I grew up in South Carolina.

SC is a relative newcomer to redstateness. Voted Republican for President since Reagan. But state and local elections took longer to get there.

Here is what is important to know about the Confederate Flag (yeah nobody school me on nomenclature I grew up in SC I know blah blah blah you know what the Hell I mean): it was always a Democrat symbol. Lincoln was a Republican, remember? The rebels broke away because he got elected. Not their President.

The guy who put the flag on top of the SC State House in 1965 was a Democrat.

The governor who pulled it off the top of the dome was a Republican, Beasley. And the one who moved it from the State House grounds to the State Museum was also a Republican, Haley.

They aren't traitors.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:32 PM (tewYv)

288 I think every decision I've made over the last 10 years has been the wrong one. Whatever I do, you should do the opposite.

Posted by: Chris M at February 28, 2017 02:32 PM (eAZVt)

289 Oh hey, someone mentioned it two comments before mine. Missed it by that much.

Posted by: makatta at February 28, 2017 02:32 PM (Y7Qzg)

290 Joy Villa (or Lady MAGA) of Trump dress fame will be the keynoter speaker at the March 4th "March for Trump" in DC.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? - Takin' My Time on my Ride at February 28, 2017 02:33 PM (ul9CR)

291
Oh well, the outage is good for one thing, I installed my backup router with Trump level huge throughput. Speed test confirms bigness.

brb: gotta test range

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at February 28, 2017 02:33 PM (ZFUt7)

292 I think much of this--about being risk-averse and all--is true as far as it goes, but there's more than that. There's also a presumption that there's slim to no reward. A couple of generations of layoffs, cutbacks, outsourcing, capricious regulation, taxes, bizarre divorce laws, etc. and you start to get the feeling there's no brass ring, no cheese at the end of the maze. Suddenly the risk-reward equation is completely FUBAR'd--why take any potential risk for a slim chance at any reward? Better to sit on what you have...

I know that's how my thinking's been for too long. A funny thing about my life now, I wish I'd been in a situation like this twenty years ago when I could have done more with it, and maybe not have been nearly so beaten down by life. But hey, maybe there's still something out there for a middle aged putz like me, if I can just find it...or cook it up.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at February 28, 2017 02:33 PM (9krrF)

293 >>Way it is in a lot of major corporations. Mine included.
IF you are upper management material, out you go to a sales region. After a couple of years, back to HQ for a product manager position. After a couple of years, back out to a regional sales manager position. Then back to HQ as a junior vp. Then, an MBA later, up the ladder they go.

Yep. True story. I was in summer camp for a couple weeks in upstate NY along Lake Champlain. We were living in NJ at the time.

My mom and sister came to pick me up and as we were driving along the highway my mom took the exit for the Mass Pike. I pointed out that she made a wrong turn and she said "Um, there's something I have to tell you ....". And that's how I found out that we had moved to MA.

Hey, they could have left me and I never would have found them so there's that.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 28, 2017 02:34 PM (/tuJf)

294 This trend corresponds almost exactly with the two-income family becoming the standard.

That is a pretty key point: if people think they need two incomes to survive (translate: enjoy the lifestyle they prefer), then both will need to be out of work to make the move.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:34 PM (39g3+)

295 The psychology of happiness is pretty poorly understood. Actually, it's only been studied heavily in the last few decades. Doesn't that seem weird? Isn't that the goal of therapy most of the time - to be happy? And yet we understand the bad stuff quite a bit better - we understand the pathologies of psychopathy and addiction and depression.

And it doesn't help that, on an individual level, we also poorly understand happiness. If happiness is a car, people think the most important parts are the radio, the A/C, the paint job...and sure, those things are important. You probably wouldn't want a car with no radio, or no air, or an ugly paint job. But none of those things actually *run* the car - the engine does. We have a very hard time finding the engine of happiness.

Do I know what it is? Hell no. I know that studies have shown certain habits shared by 'happy' people - they're more often than not married, employed, have a few hobbies they would describe as fulfilling, are involved in the community somehow, and (the controversial one) many are religious.

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at February 28, 2017 02:34 PM (oZ6kz)

296 But hey, maybe there's still something out there for a middle aged putz like me, if I can just find it...or cook it up.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at February 28, 2017 02:33 PM (9krrF)

Breaking Bad reference?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2017 02:34 PM (R7+kO)

297 285 really good point I didn't consider either.

This trend corresponds almost exactly with the two-income family becoming the standard.

Posted by: ace at February 28, 2017 02:31 PM (8rNrN)

====================

I know that in my situation we could find a job for either my wife or myself anywhere, and the other would probably be able to find something soon after moving there.

It'd be a hefty financial risk, but with some level of house ownership and accumulating equity there, we could potentially be successful at it.

Plus, I do know that both of our jobs COULD be done remotely, so there's the potential that we could move for one new job and keep the other intact even though we're half a country away.

The risks are certainly higher, but if part of the move is to go somewhere where living standards are cheaper (which would most likely happen if we moved to Texas but definitely not California), then it could be pulled off.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:34 PM (vur0q)

298 271 268 266 The ratio of fathers to mothers committing suicide after divorce/separation is 8 to 1

That may have more to do with how men mourn than anything. Women tend to fall apart right at first then get busy doing other stuff. Guys tend to be really mad at first, then spend the next 6th months in deepening depression.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:28 PM (39g3+)

=====================

I wonder how custody affects that as well.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (vur0q)

Or who initiated the divorce.
Posted by: josephistan at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (7HtZB

Again blaming men. It's all about losing your children, then being destroyed and shamed publically for existing

I challenge any father out there to even contemplate having their children removed from their lives because they are men. Every instinct and fiber of yourself is destroyed. The studies back it up as well as the data

Totally sick and tired of the reflexive bull shit to blame fathers about everything. White knighting of the worst kind.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 02:35 PM (ksj3z)

299 Rush says Trump rumored to be cutting 37% of State Department.

And a bunch of EPA.

And a bunch of appointees.

Mwa-ha-ha.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (oVJmc)

300 167 You know things are bad when Ace has to intentionally spell Cohen wrong to keep from triggering certain people here.

...I'm looking at you CBD and Insomniac
Posted by: garrett at February 28, 2017 02:08 PM (oXKWd)

I'm in my safe space fuehrerbunker listening to Wagner.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (0mRoj)

301 They aren't traitors.

I feel that despite growing up in Irmo, Haley isn't a Southerner. I'm sure that's just my own Southern prejudice as a great grandson of the Confederacy.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (LTHVh)

302 Addtionally, Dr. Cowen is a veryintelligent guy and the two-income issue isn't mentioned in his article.

I have to wonder if he deliberately ignored that issue to avoid extra controversy.

Posted by: makatta at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (Y7Qzg)

303 "286 @270 Saratoga is my home town. Used to be more of a small town, but still a great town. I get there (and elsewhere Upstate) when I can. The part about NY being filled with a-holes is not exactly correct. There are plenty of em, but they tend to gravitate to the bottom of the state, like the toys at the bottom of the cereal box."

Lived between Saratoga and Albany for a few years, and still try to get there every summer. Having grown up downstate, you are correct about the people in NY.

Posted by: Benji Carver at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (OD2ni)

304 No. Because there is more to life than money and maybe Person A getting the dream job is worth more to both of you than just money in which case pack up that crap and head out that door.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (mf5HN)

Trust me, it doesn't work this way. I know from firsthand experience and learned just to keep my mouth shut

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (dzmBR)

305 287 I grew up in South Carolina.

SC is a relative newcomer to redstateness. Voted Republican for President since Reagan. But state and local elections took longer to get there.

Here is what is important to know about the Confederate Flag (yeah nobody school me on nomenclature I grew up in SC I know blah blah blah you know what the Hell I mean): it was always a Democrat symbol. Lincoln was a Republican, remember? The rebels broke away because he got elected. Not their President.

The guy who put the flag on top of the SC State House in 1965 was a Democrat.

The governor who pulled it off the top of the dome was a Republican, Beasley. And the one who moved it from the State House grounds to the State Museum was also a Republican, Haley.

They aren't traitors.
Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:32 PM (tewYv)

======================

I was going to make this point too.

I live in Charleston. Nikki Haley taking down a Democratic battle flag that was flown over the Confederate Army did not lead me to shedding any tears or rending any shirts.

I just used it as an opportunity to rip the Democratic Party to those people who were curious about what I thought.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (vur0q)

306 I think the relative lack of risk taking moves correlates with the fact that you can no longer smoke in a car with your kids in it on a cross country trip.

Posted by: BOD tied to a brick, lobbed over the Bush compound wall at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (QtQaN)

307 Or who initiated the divorce.
Posted by: josephistan at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (7HtZB

Women initiate the divorce approximately 80% of the time.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (0mRoj)

308 Chelsea Clinton has the smart, spicy, sassy, Cassandra like wit and voice women need in the age of Trump!

Posted by: Politico at February 28, 2017 02:37 PM (FqgrG)

309 Bah. * adding squats for the second day in a row now*

Be well Horde.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at February 28, 2017 02:37 PM (ksj3z)

310 "Damn. The Guidance Counselors were right.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:29 PM (LTHVh) "

I'm putting this in your *Permanent Record*!

Posted by: Grump's High School Vice Principal at February 28, 2017 02:37 PM (oZ6kz)

311 301 They aren't traitors.

I feel that despite growing up in Irmo, Haley isn't a Southerner. I'm sure that's just my own Southern prejudice as a great grandson of the Confederacy.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (LTHVh)

====================

She was born in South Carolina to Indian immigrant parents.

She's probably just about as Southern as most, to be honest.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (vur0q)

312 I'm on the east coast, internet working fine. Amazon too, I just ordered an Echo.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (Mc+44)

313 @295 broseidon that is one of the issues that The Happiness Advantage brings up - we have tons and tons of research on unhappiness, but it is only recently we have done the science on happiness.

And you got it - happiness is a habit.

It is hard to get out of the Slough of Despond, but you have to work to make the habit, and then it comes easier.

I say that like I am good at it or something. But I have been working to get out of a very negative space I was in.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (tewYv)

314 @303 Should be a Moron meetup in Saratoga in August. Sounds like Vic is still in the area and I would guess more than a few Upstate NYers here.

Posted by: BOD tied to a brick, lobbed over the Bush compound wall at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (QtQaN)

315 But hey, maybe there's still something out there for a middle aged putz like me, if I can just find it...or cook it up.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character

Breaking Bad reference?

Posted by: Aetius451AD

More an acknowledgement that the entrepeneur can have more options. (Though admittedly I've mulled a life of gentlemanly geek piracy, whatever the hell that means.)

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (9krrF)

316 314 @303 Should be a Moron meetup in Saratoga in August. Sounds like Vic is still in the area and I would guess more than a few Upstate NYers here.
Posted by: BOD tied to a brick, lobbed over the Bush compound wall at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (QtQaN)

===================

I thought Vic lived in upcountry SC.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:39 PM (vur0q)

317
I'm in my safe space fuehrerbunker listening to Wagner.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (0mRoj)

Mein Insomniac...Steiner..

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 28, 2017 02:39 PM (493sH)

318 I think the relative lack of risk taking moves correlates with the fact that you can no longer smoke in a car with your kids in it on a cross country trip.

Posted by: BOD tied to a brick, lobbed over the Bush compound wall at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (QtQaN)
--------------------------
Really? Just strap them on top with the dog.

Posted by: Mittens at February 28, 2017 02:39 PM (SsblQ)

319 I wonder how custody affects that as well.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Or who initiated the divorce.

Those both are probably really key parts to the story. It can be crushing to a man to lose the kids and be stripped of his dreams and possibly love.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:39 PM (39g3+)

320 "312 I'm on the east coast, internet working fine. Amazon too, I just ordered an Echo.

Posted by: dagny"

Try not to abuse Alexa. She doesn't fight back....

Posted by: Benji Carver at February 28, 2017 02:39 PM (OD2ni)

321 We moved a fair amount when I was a kiddo cuz of my Dad's job.

Then, a bit when I was in the Navy.

I never realized how much i loved moving until I got stuck in one place. It's more or less a hazard of the job, so......c'est la vie.

Looking back, could've and should've stuck in the Navy a bit more cuz-

I luvz me some movin'.

It's always an adventure.

Plus, a great excuse to unload accumulated garbage!

Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2017 02:39 PM (vZ9Fw)

322 Harry -Anywhere near the seacoast?

We so need to get a New England Horde meet-up organized.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 01:53 PM (jxbfJ)

Yes.

RMBS has been threatening to put together a meet up for years now, but I think he's bluffing.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 28, 2017 01:55 PM

I've just been saying we need one. LOL Looks like there are plenty of Morons up in this area. Should we shoot for summer? Boston?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at February 28, 2017 02:40 PM (p+Wdc)

323 It's not a get rich quick scheme but, I found out how we could make extra money by selling our DVC (Disney Vacation Club) points to others that are going to Disney, they save 40% off the regular hotel rate and more if they get a room with the Kitchen and make your own meals. I use the money towards our vacation so we travel for free.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at February 28, 2017 02:40 PM (dKiJG)

324 321 I never realized how much i loved moving until I got stuck in one place. It's more or less a hazard of the job, so......c'est la vie.

Looking back, could've and should've stuck in the Navy a bit more cuz-

I luvz me some movin'.

It's always an adventure.

Plus, a great excuse to unload accumulated garbage!
Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2017 02:39 PM (vZ9Fw)

=====================

I'm the opposite. I moved more than average, and now that I'm placing down roots in a place, I kind of never want to leave.

It's nice not having to worry about packing up all of my possessions every year or so.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:40 PM (vur0q)

325 288 I think every decision I've made over the last 10 years has been the wrong one. Whatever I do, you should do the opposite.

Posted by: Chris M at February 28, 2017 02:32 PM (eAZVt)

Join the fucking club. I'm beginning to think the purpose of my life is to serve as a cautionary tale for others.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:41 PM (0mRoj)

326 HUGE.
Few do this anymore.
My sister finally said "fuck it" quit her job and opened her own boutique closing store. That was a huge risk (backed in part by my parents offering a safety net.) Her friends were stunned, I mean why would you take that risk. And yet something like this used to be commonplace if not even considered normal.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 02:30 PM (dzmBR)

It's a very odd dynamic right now. It's the worship of start up culture combined with high levels of risk aversion.

Though when I think of start up I think, you know, 10 people in a warehouse making out their credit cards, not oh hey we're renting a few floors of office space in downtown Austin and hiring 500+ people.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:41 PM (mf5HN)

327 I'm on the east coast, internet working fine. Amazon too, I just ordered an Echo.

Posted by: dagny"

Try not to abuse Alexa. She doesn't fight back....

Posted by: Benji Carver

Oh $#!+, here we go again...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at February 28, 2017 02:41 PM (9krrF)

328 Chelsea Clinton has the smart, spicy, sassy, Cassandra like wit and voice women need in the age of Trump!

+++

Sassy!

Posted by: Phil Hartman at February 28, 2017 02:41 PM (di4sB)

329 @322
"Should we shoot for summer? Boston? "
YOU HAVE BEEN FLAGGED FOR HATE SPEECH. CEASE AND DESIST OR BE BANNED FROM ALL GOOGLE APPLICATIONS.

Posted by: The Algorithm at February 28, 2017 02:42 PM (QtQaN)

330 326
Though when I think of start up I think, you know, 10 people in a warehouse making out their credit cards, not oh hey we're renting a few floors of office space in downtown Austin and hiring 500+ people.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:41 PM (mf5HN)

======================

I wonder if breweries are one of the most common startups these days.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:42 PM (vur0q)

331 Bad news, msnbc not dying: http://thehill.com/media/321587-msnbc-sees-strong-ratings-gains-in-february

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 28, 2017 02:43 PM (W8bn5)

332 How does the insurance work? Does your regular car insurance cover the passengers if you're using your vehicle commercially?
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at February 28, 2017 02:26 PM (lKyWE)

----

Looks like Uber covers that from their 25%

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:43 PM (PNcou)

333 Yeah women say that but when it comes down to actually being with a really poor guy they all walk away
------

Wow generalize much? You are nuts.

Posted by: Mega at February 28, 2017 02:43 PM (fsSge)

334 331 Bad news, msnbc not dying: http://thehill.com/media/321587-msnbc-sees-strong-ratings-gains-in-february
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 28, 2017 02:43 PM (W8bn5)

===================

Opposition press always does better than "in power" press.

Remember, the MSM is not dead.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:43 PM (vur0q)

335 299 Rush says Trump rumored to be cutting 37% of State Department.

And a bunch of EPA.

Oh man. Here comes that 48-hour schadenboner again!

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? - Takin' My Time on my Ride at February 28, 2017 02:43 PM (ul9CR)

336 331 Yeah,unfortunate side effect of Trump winning is that these lefty outlets get a reprieve.Still worth it.

Posted by: steevy at February 28, 2017 02:44 PM (r/0kC)

337 "I think the relative lack of risk taking moves correlates with the fact
that you can no longer smoke in a car with your kids in it on a cross
country trip."

You can shoot smack, though. For when you really need to tune out the rugrats.

http://tinyurl.com/gnvw5by

Posted by: torquewrench at February 28, 2017 02:44 PM (noWW6)

338 Though when I think of start up I think, you know, 10 people in a warehouse making out their credit cards, not oh hey we're renting a few floors of office space in downtown Austin and hiring 500+ people.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at February 28, 2017 02:41 PM (mf5HN)

Yeah only investors were my parents.
She worked the system to get an intern from one of the Chicagoland colleges (no, really.) And has a friend who works the store on a modified commission so she can take vacations.

Now my sister could travel a bit less (she has another friend who made her his United Airlines free flying person) but mostly it's her grinding away at the store for 12 hour days. Her friends (who work shitty retail) would rather take the scheduled hourly work.

And that's where it is. Her paycheck is based on hustle. And her friends get scared by that.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at February 28, 2017 02:44 PM (dzmBR)

339 I'm the opposite. I moved more than average, and now that I'm placing down roots in a place, I kind of never want to leave.

It's nice not having to worry about packing up all of my possessions every year or so.

Yeah. There was a period between '82 & '86 while working for the state, I moved 11 times. Since '91, I've been in the same house.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 02:44 PM (QFqpA)

340 "Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (tewYv) "

Yeah, happiness science is so new that the pop science books are pretty accurate - not even much different than what you'd read in a psych journal.

There's definitely a 'fake it til you make it' aspect, and there's also a genetic component - that is, some people have naturally 'happier' dispositions. But if, say, 50% of happiness is genetic and 50% is a choice, then that's a pretty important choice, isn't it?

And I think we've all experienced this - no one is going to say you can just manifest happiness, but haven't we all had times where we over-accentuate the negatives of a situation because, for lack of a better way to put it, we just wanted to feel bad?

Posted by: Grump's High School Vice Principal at February 28, 2017 02:45 PM (oZ6kz)

341 >>I wonder if breweries are one of the most common startups these days.

Depends on your definition of startups. I've been doing mostly technology related startups for many moons. They have all been venture funded with big goals.

I would put most breweries in a different, small business category.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 28, 2017 02:45 PM (/tuJf)

342
It's not a get rich quick scheme but, I found out how we could make extra money by selling our DVC (Disney Vacation Club) points to others that are going to Disney, they save 40% off the regular hotel rate and more if they get a room with the Kitchen and make your own meals. I use the money towards our vacation so we travel for free.
Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at February 28, 2017 02:40 PM (dKiJG)

Mickey whack his pee pee.

Posted by: Zombie Walt Disney at February 28, 2017 02:45 PM (lKyWE)

343 339 Yeah. There was a period between '82 & '86 while working for the state, I moved 11 times. Since '91, I've been in the same house.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 02:44 PM (QFqpA)

===================

I guess we'll see how I feel in 20 years or so.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:45 PM (vur0q)

344 Off school administration sock - though who knows, maybe Grump's HS Vice Principal quit and went into Psychology.

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at February 28, 2017 02:45 PM (oZ6kz)

345 I would pay nothing for an app that had anything to do with facebook. I wouldn't even download it for free. I was going to do Tinder until I realized its a facebook thing. No thanks.

Posted by: Derbererd at February 28, 2017 02:45 PM (jMreU)

346 I feel that despite growing up in Irmo, Haley isn't a Southerner. I'm sure that's just my own Southern prejudice as a great grandson of the Confederacy.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 28, 2017 02:36 PM (LTHVh)

I think she grew up in Bennettsville. (That's near where my people are from). She's not from Irmo, she lived in Lexington (I grew up in Lexington don't say same thing!) She belongs to Saxe-Gotha Presbyterian and her husband is in the South Carolina National Guard. She is for low taxes, she's pro-life, she's pro-gun, and she's easy enough on the eyes for a politician. Nothing wrong with her near as I can tell.

But, she is NOT part of the South Carolina machine and she got to where she is despite the good old boy system, I am sure she rankles a few people because of that. But she appointed Tim Scott to the Senate (also not part of the GOB system) and he's doing well for himself, and the State, too.

But she's good folks.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (tewYv)

347 I'm on the east coast, internet working fine. Amazon too, I just ordered an Echo.

Posted by: dagny

It's Amazon streaming services which is down. That's outgoing stuff, lower priority to them then selling stuff, I guess.

Unfortunately I can't get to Kodi on Amazon Fire Stick unless they're up and running unless I figure out a start up OS choice. By then $oros might be done f--king around.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (ZFUt7)

348 Now that I'm working from home, I can move wherever I want. With work off the table, the possibilities are endless.

The better half and I are looking at Colorado. Eastern slope. Ft. Collins/Loveland area.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? - Takin' My Time on my Ride at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (ul9CR)

349 I guess I'm different. In 22 years I moved from my home state (Cali) to Georgia (17.5 years) Wyoming (4.5 years)and now back to the West Coast to central Oregon. All job related. Also a few years after my divorce and the subsequent deaths of my parents I realized I needed to be closer to my many siblings, all in NorCal or Boise area.

Central Oregon is quite RED. I believe I will stay here. ( And yeah....fk Portland)

Posted by: small town girl did the triple lindy at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (usgok)

350 I'm learning to accept that I will never be happy, the way a samurai accepts that he is already dead upon entering the field of battle.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (0mRoj)

351 Most riders have been girls which is nice.
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 28, 2017 02:14 PM (PNcou)

I'm in your vicinity (saw your post that you're 900 ft from DE).

I've been looking for a driver to give a relative rides to dr. appts, etc.

Can I book you for that service? Someone I know said that you can't specify a driver when you use Uber.

Posted by: kallisto at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (nNdYv)

352 Wow generalize much? You are nuts.

I can only speak from personal experience and thousand of generations of human history.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (39g3+)

353 So no interest in a Kickstart for ShadenFacebook? I like the idea!

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 28, 2017 02:47 PM (9zvHp)

354 350 I'm learning to accept that I will never be happy, the way a samurai accepts that he is already dead upon entering the field of battle.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (0mRoj)

Yep. Even if you can't be happy, virtue is still virtue.

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at February 28, 2017 02:47 PM (CPk08)

355 I think every decision I've made over the last 10 years has been the wrong one. Whatever I do, you should do the opposite.

Posted by: Chris M at February 28, 2017 02:32 PM (eAZVt)

There's an old engineering/science adage about experimental design: think very carefully, make a deliberate choice, and then do the opposite.

That's how discoveries are made.

Posted by: hambone at February 28, 2017 02:47 PM (25+/B)

356 I wonder if breweries are one of the most common startups these days.

Sure is here in the Ohio Valley. And wineries.

As soon as I can get my wife's ass pried up, we're gone South.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 28, 2017 02:47 PM (AuISE)

357 One point most people are overlooking is that the US is becoming more homogeneous. I think Cowen gets into this some, but I'm not seeing it discussed much. There used to be larger differences across states in manufacturing. Now the states are more similar and manufacturing accounts for a smaller share of jobs. There are still differences across states, but they're quite a bit smaller than they used to be and that should explain part of the decline in movement.

Posted by: DaveA at February 28, 2017 02:47 PM (NL/S2)

358 314
@303 Should be a Moron meetup in Saratoga in August. Sounds like Vic is
still in the area and I would guess more than a few Upstate NYers here.

Posted by: BOD tied to a brick, lobbed over the Bush compound wall at February 28, 2017 02:38 PM (QtQaN)

Vic lives in SC. Back in the 60s/70s he used to live in Saratoga.
I grew up 20 miles east of Saratoga and would be VERY interested in a Moron meetup -as long as it isn't the weekend I have to take the daughter back to college.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 02:48 PM (jxbfJ)

359 Hahahaha

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/258506/

Posted by: steevy at February 28, 2017 02:48 PM (r/0kC)

360 Insomniac, try invading Poland. or at least a 5'9 blonde Polish girl

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at February 28, 2017 02:49 PM (Cc/b5)

361 Hey Www that is a beautiful area. when I ived in Wyo went there all the time since it was only an hour drive.

Posted by: small town girl did the triple lindy at February 28, 2017 02:49 PM (usgok)

362 A lot of people watching PMSNBC for the schadenfreude

Posted by: Mega at February 28, 2017 02:49 PM (fsSge)

363 356
I wonder if breweries are one of the most common startups these days.

Sure is here in the Ohio Valley. And wineries.

As soon as I can get my wife's ass pried up, we're gone South.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 28, 2017 02:47 PM (AuISE)

Breweries definitely are in the NH Seacoast area. Not so wineries. Distilleries are popping up though. Vodka, rum, gin, etc. Actually have a rum distillery in the business park where I work.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 02:50 PM (jxbfJ)

364 "It's not a get rich quick scheme but, I found out how we could make extra money by selling our DVC (Disney Vacation Club)"

Someone wrote recently that Disney Parks is less a them park company than a hotel/time share company hat also owns parks.

Posted by: Benji Carver at February 28, 2017 02:51 PM (OD2ni)

365 On that 8-1 suicide thing.

1. Men commit suicide more than women anyway. 3.5x more already. (Yes, stats affect each other they are not independent, I get it)

2. Key element I think is not sadness but rather powerlessness. Men and women deal with that differently, and the courts definitely disempower men. Some of that is good and on purpose, some of it is just plain bad. Men with nothing to lose can act in destructive ways.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:51 PM (tewYv)

366
"That's a cost. It's a true, tangible cost. Note that in all the stories about oh we packed up the family and moved, the family means the wife and kids, and, maybe, maybe the elderly mother. It's not siblings. It's not extended family. It's narrowing the family down to just the nuclear family and treating that as the only unit.

Which, again, is fine but stop acting like that's not a cost that is being paid and it's being paid by others who have no part in the decision. "

That's what I was trying to say earlier - Alex said it better.

My childhood was filled with my mother's extended family. It's not like I sat around and had heart to hearts with all my aunts and uncles, but they were there at Sunday dinner and card parties and weddings. Like I'm around for my nieces and nephews. My SIL just emailed me and invited me to come with her and the kids to a college basketball game on Sunday. I missed that when I lived away. I didn't feel connected to anybody. Your friends are your friends until they're not - maybe when they find out you're a conservative and they don't want to deal with you anymore. My sister is my best friend and will be until one of us dies, despite the fact we've had our share of huge fights.

I don't mean to make it sound like we're the Waltons because we're not. My relatives frequently annoy me

But as Alex said, there are more than economic issues under consideration here.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at February 28, 2017 02:52 PM (ZM2xo)

367 "Should we shoot for summer? Boston? "

YOU HAVE BEEN FLAGGED FOR HATE SPEECH. CEASE AND DESIST OR BE BANNED FROM ALL GOOGLE APPLICATIONS.

Posted by: The Algorithm at February 28, 2017 02:42 PM

*exhales*

*rotates selector switch*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at February 28, 2017 02:52 PM (p+Wdc)

368 I fondly recall the days when I felt my career possibilities were limitless. Probably a combination of the hubris of youth and a relatively stable socioeconomic environment. Now? Not so much.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at February 28, 2017 02:52 PM (vtcmf)

369 Don't know if its been mentioned but....

Don't you think age would also have something to do with all this moving? Hell, I DID move, and a LOT, when I was younger for more economic opportunity.

At 48? Not unless I have too.

Could be just another thing the Millenials suck at

Posted by: FITP at February 28, 2017 02:53 PM (+7B7P)

370 Breweries definitely are in the NH Seacoast area. Not so wineries.

The wineries are interesting. Some traditional fruit wines like strawberry and apple - which grow here - and the grape wines are a mix. Some grown locally - some fermented here with juices brought in from the Carolinas and Virginia.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 28, 2017 02:54 PM (AuISE)

371 BTW: Not that I'm interested in get rich quick schemes, but, just out of curiosity, how much would you pay for an App that alerts you everytime someone you don't like (an enemy, an ex-) posts something indicating a negative emotion or setback on FaceBook?

I wouldn't pay anything for it because I don't do phone ams. I have dumb phone and am dumb with electronics, and because personally if I'm rejoicing in the misfortunes of other people it sends me down the wrong path. I can do that anyway, I mean and not like myself if the process. I don't needed added help, But i think it could be quite popular.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 28, 2017 02:54 PM (fDdVG)

372 Can we blame video games?

I have 15 year old boys who are only marginally interested in driving but LOVE video games. If you can't drive, you surely won't move.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:54 PM (tewYv)

373 ams=aps

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 28, 2017 02:55 PM (fDdVG)

374 ace so for your market research, count Fen as a "no."

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:55 PM (tewYv)

375 Don't you think age would also have something to do with all this moving?

Well it seems impossible to conclude otherwise if people are moving less and less to get jobs, then the younger generations necessarily are moving less.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:56 PM (39g3+)

376 I think soft, easy, and unchanging has been badly confused with "happy" and it's causing problems of economic, sexual, psychological,

===

L8 2 thread but good point ace.

93 million out of the workforce. Humans need work. If they don't work they get crazy.

Here we are.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at February 28, 2017 02:56 PM (8GRZ3)

377 NOOD

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:56 PM (tewYv)

378 O/T.
I need someone to photoshop KellyAnne's head onto Dave Chappelle as Rick James, saying "F*ck your couch, Donald J. Trump! F*ck your couch!"

Posted by: CharleyMurphey at February 28, 2017 02:56 PM (2lks9)

379 "Should we shoot for summer? Boston? "

YOU HAVE BEEN FLAGGED FOR HATE SPEECH. CEASE AND DESIST OR BE BANNED FROM ALL GOOGLE APPLICATIONS.

Posted by: The Algorithm at February 28, 2017 02:42 PM

*exhales*

*rotates selector switch*
Posted by: RedMindBlueState

From Pew to Happy Happy Joy Joy?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2017 02:57 PM (QFqpA)

380 Another obstacle to a relocation is the Great Recession, which seems counterintuitive but millions of people are still over leveraged and underwater on their mortgages. If you owe $170k on your home but it's only worth $140k, not only do you have to come up with the scratch to make the move, but you have to pony up $30k on top of it to get out from under your house.

Posted by: Lamont Cranston at February 28, 2017 02:57 PM (Rtyzj)

381 I'm learning to accept that I will never be happy, the way a samurai accepts that he is already dead upon entering the field of battle.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 28, 2017 02:46 PM (0mRoj)

====

Maybe it's the difference between "happy" and "satisfied".

They are not the same.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at February 28, 2017 02:58 PM (8GRZ3)

382 I wonder if breweries are one of the most common startups these days.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 02:42 PM (vur0q)

Saw that a guy from New Zealand sells make your own beer kits to bars, it's a empty keg and he sells the ingredients with it, it takes 5 days to make the beer and the Bar has its own brand of Beer and the Bar restaurant just hooks up the Keg. If I knew the laws better I would love to try and sell his product here in the States, seems like a money maker. Williamswarn is the company's name and he makes it looks soo easy to make the beer.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at February 28, 2017 02:59 PM (dKiJG)

383
Rush says Trump rumored to be cutting 37% of State Department.
And a bunch of EPA.

Proposing is one thing. Getting is another.
McConnell was just on the news opposing cuts at State.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 28, 2017 02:59 PM (IqV8l)

384 Crap, something wrong with my dog and first vet appointment at 540. I'm going to be nervous as hell till then.

Posted by: dagny at February 28, 2017 02:59 PM (Mc+44)

385
Ah, Amazon is only experiencing 'high error rates'. That is pretty much an 'alternative fact' to those of us who say they done crashed. Probably because one guy too many posted a YouTube video.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at February 28, 2017 02:59 PM (ZFUt7)

386 Well it seems impossible to conclude otherwise if people are moving less
and less to get jobs, then the younger generations necessarily are
moving less.

Ok, OK I get the sarcasm, but I'm just simply saying that "something" else may have changed

Give me a break man, I just woke up ...............

Posted by: FITP at February 28, 2017 03:00 PM (+7B7P)

387 Hahahaha

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/258506/

Posted by: steevy

Pelosi is starting to look more and more like Michael Jackson. Which is to her credit, since Michael Jackson was much younger than she is.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 28, 2017 03:00 PM (W8bn5)

388 363 Breweries definitely are in the NH Seacoast area. Not so wineries. Distilleries are popping up though. Vodka, rum, gin, etc. Actually have a rum distillery in the business park where I work.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 02:50 PM (jxbfJ)

==================

We really need more distilleries making more bourbon.

Not enough bourbon!

I also hope that it's largely a fad and by the time all the stuff that's going into barrels now demand is way down, so I can buy a bunch of it cheap.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 03:00 PM (vur0q)

389 Ace: "I have long sort of wondered why more Americans aren't pulling up sticks to move to states with dynamic economies, like Texas or North Dakota."

As to Texas the idea that Texas is booming with good jobs available for American citizens is people listening to puffery from Rick Perry.

I recall seeing analyses that the vast majority of jobs created in Texas in recent years went to immigrants, a lot of them illegal, and that most of these are at the high school drop-out level. In other words, a heck of a lot of the "Texas boom" is cheap foreign labor imported by business to lower wages for the reason that they can get away with it. Not all of the jobs are like this, but nevertheless the Texas boom is exaggerated.

Also, I suspect our quilt of multiculturalism puts off many would-be natural born Americans from relocating. In the 1960s if you moved from New England to Southern California it was still recognizably a common culture. Someone moving from Western Pennsylvania to the Central Valley of California today is moving to a foreign country.

Our population today in immigrant families is >60 million people. It's a huge, huge, huge factor in the national labor market. The idea that working-class natural born Americans can move to where there are good jobs in the country is by and large part of the set of propaganda talking points by the globalists and open-borders shills.

As to North Dakota a lot of oil field workers and supporting infrastructure workers did move to North Dakota and made good money. But this business is very sensitive to changes in oil prices and waxes and wanes accordingly.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at February 28, 2017 03:00 PM (3OAG2)

390 372 Can we blame video games?

I have 15 year old boys who are only marginally interested in driving but LOVE video games. If you can't drive, you surely won't move.

Posted by: blaster at February 28, 2017 02:54 PM (tewYv)

==================

Yes.

Video games are where a lot of socializing happens these days.

Instead of going to a common place to socialize, kids, especially boys, can just log on from the living room. There's no need to go anywhere.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 28, 2017 03:01 PM (vur0q)

391 322

I've just been saying we need one. LOL Looks
like there are plenty of Morons up in this area. Should we shoot for
summer? Boston?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at February 28, 2017 02:40 PM (p+Wdc)

Boston sounds wonderful!!!
WOO HOO meetup in Saratoga NY and Boston MA.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2017 03:01 PM (jxbfJ)

392 I don't know what the big deal is, cock-suckin for cash is universal and portable. I can make it any where!

Posted by: Jimmy Kimmel & Bits at February 28, 2017 03:02 PM (WLK0w)

393 I just think attitudes about MANY things have changed in the last, oh 25 years or so.....lets say since, maybe, the internet or Bill Clinton, or the total enfuckening of our education system

This ain't the same America we grew up in in a LOT of ways

Posted by: FITP at February 28, 2017 03:03 PM (+7B7P)

394 Not a professional this or that among us. Just real people. Human doings.

Just a note. The pastors are human beings and human doings too too. :^) Yes, there may be slick stage production values but it's not as if they-mostly- think of it as a performance. But, yes, I appreciate that Sunday school is a more intimate experience.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 28, 2017 03:03 PM (fDdVG)

395 I mean everybody i8n church is a "real" person but you do experience that more when it's not a performance you're watching.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 28, 2017 03:04 PM (fDdVG)

396 " In the 1960s if you moved from New England to Southern California it was still recognizably a common culture. Someone moving from Western Pennsylvania to the Central Valley of California today is moving to a foreign country."

Yeah, its not that bad, dude.

Posted by: Harun at February 28, 2017 03:05 PM (UBBWX)

397 The Wife and I are in this situation, more or less. Now that I'm working from home, there's no reason for me to stick with the Washington DC area. I hate it here. She hates it here. We're beginning to talk about moving somewhere else.

I can move just about anywhere and still keep my job. But we have to find somewhere that has a market for her job. I suppose when she can no longer work due to health issues, we're going to pull the trigger and get the hell out of here.

Posted by: Semper Why at February 28, 2017 03:05 PM (mDDO1)

398 I'm learning to accept that I will never be happy, the way a samurai accepts that he is already dead upon entering the field of battle.

What would happiness look like?

If you've decided you're already dead, you are.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 28, 2017 03:05 PM (fDdVG)

399 Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at February 28, 2017 03:00 PM (3OAG2)
----------
Great points.

Many of the Texas jobs were in oil & gas and paid well but many of those are now gone with the wind of lower oil prices. The industry has been through two years of job reduction.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 03:06 PM (SsblQ)

400 especially boys, can just log on from the living room. There's no need to go anywhere.

Thats a good thought....man we (myself, bros and sisters) weren't allowed to be in the house much less just sitting around on or asses.

We stayed gone mostly to keep the Old Man from putting us to work...........

Posted by: FITP at February 28, 2017 03:06 PM (+7B7P)

401 The Wife and I are in this situation, more or less. Now that I'm working from home, there's no reason for me to stick with the Washington DC area. I hate it here. She hates it here. We're beginning to talk about moving somewhere else.

I can move just about anywhere and still keep my job. But we have to find somewhere that has a market for her job. I suppose when she can no longer work due to health issues, we're going to pull the trigger and get the hell out of here.
Posted by: Semper Why at February 28, 2017
________________________________________________

Check out Southwestern VA. Not sure if your wife can work here, but it's at least driving distance to DC if you need to go back there AND it's MUCH more livable. (I moved here from DC 4+ years ago and couldn't be happier.)

Posted by: makatta at February 28, 2017 03:10 PM (Y7Qzg)

402 It makes a lot of sense to me that there are so many stories above of Hordelings who have pulled up stakes and moved .... we are a group self - selected for embodying most of the old - school American virtues.
Mrs. Eez & I did so late last year; we are very happy with the result.

"The human mind is built to confront challenges and muddle its way through puzzles and dilemmas."
Absolutely right ! The best times in my life were when I had jobs that fully engaged me in that. What could be more fun than succeeding at that stuff, day after day ?

I think you're spot - on about filling the void, too, Ace .... oddly enough I was talking to someone yesterday about exactly that. The real addiction is to that one stolen moment of forgetting about the emptiness inside, whatever the cost might be.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 28, 2017 03:14 PM (Oeb2k)

403 "Problem-solving is hunting. It is savage pleasure and we are born to it."

-- Thomas Harris

Posted by: ShainS at February 28, 2017 03:14 PM (2p4Zz)

404 One other factor militating against relocation is immigration, which is a factor in almost every social and economic factor. If employers in a boom area can use foreign workers, then that reduces wages (or wage growth), which further reduces the incentive to move.

This is just an economic perspective. Socially, moving from small town Ohio to Houston in the 80s was not a big culture shock. Doing so now, well, you're practically moving to a foreign country. I live in SW Houston. I go up Hwy 59 from Sugar Land, and I pass exits to Indo-China, El Salvaraguexico, Kararchi and Lagos within a few miles. The school district in Houston is becoming less and less useable (see, L.A.). These factors kind of make the idea of moving your family far less appealing.

Posted by: Schaeffer at February 28, 2017 03:16 PM (nHfCR)

405 That's like bitching that the food you're given for free is not halal.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2017 02:13 PM (39g3+)

You got a problem with that, kuffar?

Posted by: Muhammed Mohammed Muhamed at February 28, 2017 03:19 PM (1Rgee)

406 moving from small town Ohio to Houston in the 80s was not a big culture shock
-----------------
Y'll was fixin' to learn some new words was about all there was to it.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 28, 2017 03:21 PM (SsblQ)

407 Loved this post. Actually thinking of printing it out for future reference when I need it. Thanks, Ace.

Posted by: circumlocutious at February 28, 2017 03:24 PM (n2r4H)

408 I've not read the thread, so someone likely has stolen my thunder here, but whatever...

Something I and many others have noted in recent years, that at least peripherally applies to this subject is that we, as a society, have become far more "risk averse" than we once were.

Example; it was mentioned last night that Elon Musk and SpaceX are talking about sending a couple of people on an circumlunar flight. And as I also said last night, I'll believe it when I see it, given that Elon has yet to get anyone in LEO yet, let alone anywhere else in space (and no, unmanned cargo ships don't count).

But that is not the real point here. I've been reading a lot of history of late on spaceflight. Even though I witnessed nearly all of it, there are a lot of details I never knew that have come out in recent times. An interesting thing is that from the time NASA was formed (out of the older NACA) in 1958, within five years they had worked out the basic plans and procedures for spaceflight, built the infrastructure, built the rockets, built the spacecraft, picked and trained the crews and were flying in space. Five years.

And here we are in 2017. The United States has not had an operational manned spacecraft since the space shuttle was decommissioned in 2011. Seven goddam years. Oh yes, we hear all about how SpaceX, or Blue Origin or Boeing are going to be flying manned vehicles again...soon. So what is taking so long? It's not like they are doing anything fundamentally different than what we were successfully doing in 1962. Oh yes, they have all sorts of spiffy little mockups, and decidedly unmanned test articles that they pop up or drop down. But where are the operational craft? Have they even started bending metal yet? I've seen no unambiguous evidence of that as yet.

Why? Because risk. Because there is some danger involved. SO WHAT? You will NEVER eliminate the risk completely. Nor are they going to be doing ANYTHING that has not ALREADY been done repeatedly and successfully over the last 50 fucking years. There are people lined up 10 abreast right now ready to go, who know the risks, yelling "GET ON WITH IT! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?"

But we've become a bunch of damned risk averse little wusses, that's what...

A damned shame...

Posted by: The Oort Cloud - No-Longer-Deplorable Source of all SMODs at February 28, 2017 03:31 PM (T1H5V)

409
Because we followed the precepts laid out as follows:

The Declaration of Independence--the WHY

The Bill of Rights--that which iss inalienable for all

The Constitution--the BLUEPRINT

We have flourished and become the most exceptional country on the planet, populated by an extraordinary people.

That bedrock is still as solid as ever, merely covered by the filth deposited by the progressive left.

The election of this man now in office has begun the admittedly arduous process of cleansing that filth.

You must NEVER despair, we WILL prevail in this task.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 28, 2017 03:37 PM (X35Yt)

410 408
But we've become a bunch of damned risk averse little wusses, that's what...

Posted by: The Oort Cloud - No-Longer-Deplorable Source of all SMODs at February 28, 2017 03:31 PM (T1H5V)

Somebody ought to write a book about that.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/hmt3l9z

Posted by: rickl at February 28, 2017 03:51 PM (zoehZ)

411 As I said above, I'm a big fan of Gulf Shores, Alabama. I think it's a hidden gem. With Gulf Shores, there's no need to go to Kallyfornia or Florida. Their beaches CAN'T be that much better. Great place, and a small town to boot.

Posted by: Country Boy - just a humble, occasionally hotheaded poster at February 28, 2017 02:18 PM (Jcg9Q)

Pensacola, Florida. Which area also encompasses Gulf Breeze and Pensacola Beach.

Pretty much the same experience, geography and everything as Gulf Shores, with some enhancements:

* no State income tax.

* Very Military centered town. Pensacola NAS, home of the Blue Angels, and much of the USN's aviation training.

* Basically referred to as "Lower Alabama", due to it's proximity to Alabama being just a wee few miles to it by both North and West.

* Very awesomely good gun laws, there in Florida.

* Very far removed from the typical South Florida antics, from whence Florida Man emerged to great infamy and zero shame.

* This is the very Red State area of Florida, which the early election calls in the 2000 Bush vs. Gore race, was intended to suppress and cancel out it's power in the Florida vote. Bastards damn near got away with it, too.

Do look into the zone? I think it just might be where I settle in for retirement, too. Can't beat the clean, white, sandy beaches, and very clear blue warm waters of the Gulf.

As compared to Galveston's brown sticky sand, and waters muddied by the Mississippi's outflow...well, it's no contest in my book.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at February 28, 2017 03:58 PM (v5iqM)

412 I am a native NYC'er and I am trying to get the Fuck out. I teach and live in NYC and all i've managed to accrue is a fuck ton of debt.

I'm trying to get me to Austin.

Posted by: Waiting at February 28, 2017 04:02 PM (QX0Xt)

413 Jim: Fell in love with Wakulla Springs when we visited there some years ago. Idyllic.

Posted by: Whatserface, the Pontificatress at February 28, 2017 04:05 PM (jVlNS)

414 As someone who was born and raised in Dallas, it's been interesting to see how it's grown. I like watching some of the early bits of 1987's Robocop because it was filmed here. They didn't need to do a whole hell of a lot of set dressing - that's really how shitty downtown was during the time period. Now it's nothing but buildings and condos and highways.

North of Dallas in the Plano/Frisco suburbs, it's wall to wall people. The area where Toyota is moving to will also have FedEx/Kinkos, Liberty Mutual, Chase, Jamba Juice, and a tiny bit north is the new practice facility for the Dallas Cowboys. It's farkin' massive, but not quite as big as the main show out in Arlington. Think of it as JerryLand compared to JerryWorld.

Homes are going for over value, sometimes in cash, inside of a day. Traffic is increasingly a nightmare and the city planners have always been a) slow to adapt, b) slow to understand that more people = need for more roads, c) incredibly corrupt. In short, the pain we're feeling is only going to get worse and I don't know that it will get better.

It's a great city to raise a family in and to work in, but I'd leave and relocate to some place like South Carolina (or even Charlotte in NC) in a heartbeat because it's so much prettier. Beautiful trees everywhere you look and nice people. The people of Dallas are, by and large, pretty cool. You still have plenty of a-holes, as are in every city, but we Texans remain a welcoming group by and large.

But it does annoy me when I see plates from California all over the place, mainly because those people are going to insist on voting straight D tickets without ever considering they left a state because of straight D policies.

Anyway, that's my comment on the matter. Cheers all.

Posted by: sans_sheriff at February 28, 2017 04:13 PM (62j1K)

415 We moved a couple of years ago, from the VA suburbs of DC, to the Denver burbs. We were getting fed up with the costs and traffic there.

The move was terrifying. We had one child finishing third grade and another in preschool, my wife was able to transfer and I had six weeks of leave saved up when I left my job, the cash payout to help us survive until I found employment. There's no way we could survive on one income, and I'm in a bit of awe of people who can. I'm glad we did it because this area is great, and while the city itself is blue the rest of the state is red enough to make the state rather purple.

Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at February 28, 2017 04:24 PM (q/kmn)

416 Husband's nephew has a successful construction business in Utah. Things got slow a few years back, so he went to North Dakota and worked for awhile. His brother and his ex-wife also wound up there and are still there.

We have talked about moving to Louisiana but I don't see it happening. We just don't know what we'd be getting into.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at February 28, 2017 04:38 PM (Lqy/e)

417 I'd like to do that, but it would require a lot of planning. Due to a medical situation, I can't move just anywhere. I can't live in the South, for example. Or Arizona. And I'd have to have a firm job offer in hand with excellent health benefits. Doesn't help that until a year ago my home was underwater. Like Marianas Trench underwater. I'm a very hard worker and have many skills, but those things really have affected my nerve.

Posted by: biblio at February 28, 2017 04:43 PM (6FY0P)

418 I am old enough to remember when saying basically the same thing got Kevin Williamson of NRO excoriated.

Posted by: Immigrant in CA at February 28, 2017 05:29 PM (zBJGz)

419 In my family, immigration was an act of desperation. My paternal great-grandparents' generation spread out over the Americas from Argentina to Canada. They owned so little, they could carry it.

On my mother's side, there was a lot of state-to-state migration following disasters like The Great Fire of 1881, deaths in the family, and work closures. The ones who stayed had property to farm and use as a home base for family members who went out as jobbers in lumber camps and construction.

My bachelor brother has reached the top of the pay scale at his workplace, but he's looking in-state. He figured he'd need a $30K raise to make an out-of-state move worth his while. I weighed the same choice because I've had five years of a pay freeze followed by a pay cut. But I have a reasonable mortgage (less than $500 a month) on a nice house that's only a mile from work and a decent walk from the waterfront and the state park. Money's tight, but my relatives who live in Texas, Colorado, and the Carolinas have had tough times, too. (In fact, the only one desperate to move is a cousin who works in DC. She loathes it.)

Posted by: NaughtyPine at February 28, 2017 10:04 PM (G8B7r)

Processing 0.04, elapsed 0.0586 seconds.
14 queries taking 0.0234 seconds, 427 records returned.
Page size 283 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.