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mannix2024 at proton.me
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petmorons at gee mail.com
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sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
Army Picks a Replacement for the Standard Sidearm Beretta M9: The Sig Sauer P320
No word on whether they're sticking with 9mm or .45 ACP. Apparently the P320 can be had in either, as well as in .357 SIG and .40 S&W.
Actually, the pistol is modular, and this article suggests that the gun might just be available in different calibers. This wikipedia entry says the P320 can be "adapted" to fire the four different calibers, but the word "adapted" seems vague to me. The article also says that my previous belief that the .45 was superior may be in error, as police departments which had previously up-calibered from 9mm to .40 are now switching back.Although the objective is for a round with better terminal ballistics, the argument for adopting a larger bullet has disadvantages. The FBI and certain police forces have reversed earlier decisions to replace their 9 mm pistols with ones chambered for .40 S&W because the heavier bullet and greater recoil caused excessive wear and frame damage. Law enforcement personnel have found that even marginally larger pistol rounds are still too underpowered to kill a person with one shot, and that smaller rounds allow for better shot placement when firing rapidly.Meanwhile, a sniper killed three jihadis with a single bullet in Iraq, and no, it wasn't by hitting a propane tank like in Uncharted or Doom. The bullet went through one and then another and then dinged a third off a ricochet. Thanks to Anonosaurus Wrecks for that last one.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:46 PM (E9ede)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:46 PM (E9ede)
Posted by: IC at January 23, 2017 05:46 PM (a0IVu)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:46 PM (E9ede)
Posted by: pookysgirl at January 23, 2017 05:46 PM (ar2KI)
Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at January 23, 2017 05:47 PM (99wbR)
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 05:47 PM (pUDQf)
Inshallah!
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:48 PM (E9ede)
Posted by: pookysgirl at January 23, 2017 05:48 PM (ar2KI)
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 05:49 PM (pUDQf)
Posted by: Skip at January 23, 2017 05:49 PM (0AwCy)
Thanks to Anonosaurus Wrecks for that last one.
Posted by: Ace at 05:50 PM
Truly an awesome shot. It sounds like something you would only see on Looney Tunes.
Posted by: Pepe at January 23, 2017 05:49 PM (XNdCd)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 05:49 PM (sRFAL)
Prosciutto & mozzarella.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:49 PM (E9ede)
Posted by: Emmie at January 23, 2017 05:50 PM (xVuS6)
Should have been a 1911.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:50 PM (E9ede)
Or on an episode of Seinfeld.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2017 05:50 PM (/tuJf)
Posted by: Skip at January 23, 2017 05:50 PM (0AwCy)
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 23, 2017 05:50 PM (SIY7D)
Posted by: 13times at January 23, 2017 05:51 PM (WHVu+)
But frankly, they should have just gone with the Glock 19. Would have been a lot cheaper and for 99% of what soldiers need a pistol for, it's good enough.
Maybe I'll buy one, dunno. I'm planning on selling off a lot of stuff. Got too many 9mm as it is. Most of them don't get the range time I'd like.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 05:52 PM (0wojp)
Posted by: Count de Monet at January 23, 2017 05:53 PM (JO9+V)
I agree they should have gone with the Glock.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 05:53 PM (/BXzQ)
And ..... gun thread, on a weekday, by the boss!
Maetenloch once referred to having a 320, I believe. How the rascal got one, seeing as they're verboten/unclean/haram in CA, I'm not sure (there are two ways).
USMC is still buying limited numbers of 1911s.
Best comment on this topic was by the Army CoS (present? former? not sure), who told a congressional committee to just give him $50M or something on his credit card and he'd go make the buy. He called it the least important procurement decision the ground forces had to make, and he didn't want a cosmic-level goat roping exercise just to choose the next effing sidearm.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (QDnY+)
The other part, from what I've heard, is that 9mm ballistics have improved greatly since the 1986 Miami shootout, which is also driving the reconsideration. I believe the FBI itself is planning to go back, but I don't know if they have chosen a pistol yet.
BUT: while I consider myself a gun guy, I'm not an expert. I'd love to hear informed commentary from smarter folks.
Posted by: Dwight Brown at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (Qy4aD)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:50 PM (E9ede)
Why? You can't get the modular requirements in a Colt 1911 platform, plus it's a barely solvent company, holds less bullets, shoots less accurate and has worse recoil.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (pUDQf)
Religion of Peace
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (PyxTe)
Posted by: Emmie at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (xVuS6)
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (ty7RM)
Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at January 23, 2017 05:55 PM (CPk08)
Why not Glock? The A47 of handguns. They have a US plant.
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 23, 2017 05:50 PM (SIY7D)
Glock can't meet the requirements of XM17
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 05:55 PM (pUDQf)
Posted by: bluebell at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (sBOL1)
Meanwhile, a sniper killed three jihadis with a single bullet in Iraq, and no, it wasn't by hitting a propane tank like in Uncharted or Doom. The bullet went through one and then another and then dinged a third off a ricochet.
Also known as a "Quigley". Except the SAS shot is more awesome because Quigley only got two, if memory serves.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (XWkhW)
I usually carry a 9 but I did some shooting with my Gen 2 G21 and my God was that thing grouping well. I'm starting to think getting a perfectly ergonomic pistol is not the most important thing. That brick was dead on, even at 20 meters.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (0wojp)
It is a high powered rifle round used by military around the world, and an American made gun. I thought that was important to Trump.
Posted by: NYT writer/ignoramous at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (z79tQ)
One bullet? Wow. Talk about value for money.
Posted by: bluebell at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (sBOL1)
Right? Very cost effective, saving tax payer money on bullets.
Posted by: IC at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (a0IVu)
Posted by: hogmartin at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (8nWyX)
Posted by: Emmie at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (xVuS6)
Bonus Life and Extra Points!
Posted by: Count de Monet at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (JO9+V)
The Walther PPK has ample firepower, a reliable mechanism and a mouth feel that is second to none.
Posted by: A. Hitler at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (mpXpK)
I think they did and it came down to a very close decision between Sig and Glock.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (/BXzQ)
I personally would prefer the great amount of bullets you can hold in a magazine versus a 45.
I have both calibers, I honestly think a 9mm is better for combat situations.
A 40 caliber is just wasting taxpayer money as it's a mild upgrade on 9mm.
I do think though the M16 and 5.56mm was a mistake and needs a bigger round.
Posted by: Hanson at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (nq/J2)
The 25 year old or so blonde cutie behind the bar is asking if I want another beer....
Posted by: Skookumchuk at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (VrEUT)
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 05:55 PM (pUDQf
Yeah but most of the requirements for the XM17 were....odd. Overly-specific and not terribly useful, IMO.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (0wojp)
Posted by: jacke at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (i158l)
Also, every Sig I've shot is rock solid.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2017 05:57 PM (ty7RM)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 05:49 PM (E9ede)
-------
Mmmm. That's my kind of dessert too. Maybe some cantaloupe with the prosciutto as well.
Posted by: bluebell at January 23, 2017 05:58 PM (sBOL1)
If you fire accurately, firing rapidly is less of a concern.
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 05:58 PM (m9RuU)
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 05:54 PM (QDnY+)
This.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 05:58 PM (0wojp)
I don't know enough to be sure of this about the Army pistol bake-off, but a lot of our military procurement gets wasted on buying high-end toys instead of buying useful shit in volume.
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (SIY7D)
Pretty, uh, loud in there huh?
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (ty7RM)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (LTHVh)
For the military, as that Army chief stated, this is among the least important acquisition decisions, and little effort should be wasted on it, as there is an abundance of excellent designs. All of which would work about equally well, for the very minor role these weapons have in the military scheme of things.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (QDnY+)
Posted by: IC at January 23, 2017 05:56 PM (a0IVu)
------
Looks like Barney Fife was on to something.
Posted by: bluebell at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (sBOL1)
replace their 9 mm pistols with ones chambered for .40 SW because
the heavier bullet and greater recoil caused excessive wear and frame
damage.
Gee they never had that problem with years of use of the old model 1911 Colt .45. Should have stuck with that.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (mpXpK)
I experienced the same thing. I carry the 19. I would carry the 21 but people would think that I was a pregnant guy or had a terrible beer belly.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (/BXzQ)
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (m9RuU)
I LOL'd.
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (nd1zx)
Posted by: Pepe at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (XNdCd)
The 9mm FMJ pokes small 0.36" holes into and often through the bad guy. Hollowpoints poke big 0.63" holes in people.
All because of our interpretation of one of the Hague Conventions.
Posted by: rd at January 23, 2017 06:00 PM (iT57s)
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:00 PM (pUDQf)
The 9mm FMJ pokes small 0.36" holes into and often through the bad guy. Hollowpoints poke big 0.63" holes in people.
All because of our interpretation of one of the Hague Conventions.
Posted by: rd at January 23, 2017 06:00 PM (iT57s)
I thought we'd backed out of that. Or last I heard, hollowpoints were back on the menu.
Or maybe I dreamed it.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (0wojp)
Posted by: jay hoenemeyer at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (uvj0z)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (LTHVh)
The answer would be yes. I love Vancouver.
An entire city devoted to hangover food and restaurants.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (ty7RM)
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:00 PM (pUDQf)
If the M9A3 passed the tests all right, I wouldn't have minded. It's the sheer waste of time and money that kills me here.
$500 million? For a frelling pistol replacement???
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:02 PM (0wojp)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 23, 2017 06:02 PM (8ZskC)
Slow'em down and they do more damage...at the cost of range, but it's a handgun.
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:02 PM (m9RuU)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (LTHVh)
Well if your Medical or Dental Officer has to pull his out, then you know you are truly and surely fucked
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:02 PM (sRFAL)
Should've gone to a US manufacturer.
Posted by: jacke
Sig is a US manufacturer. New Hampshire. Nothing comes from Germany any more.
Posted by: imp at January 23, 2017 06:02 PM (XIXZz)
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 05:59 PM (m9RuU)
Like a brick through a plate glass window. The American CIA swear by them.
Posted by: hogmartin at January 23, 2017 06:03 PM (8nWyX)
Think it was right temple, not mouth, according to the aide who entered the room and found Eva and the Fuhrer at room temperature. Also not sure it was a PPK, which is bad, I should know that. Walther, yes.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:03 PM (QDnY+)
Irony is that Glock started because its then radical design won the competition to be the new pistol for the Austrian army.
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 23, 2017 06:03 PM (SIY7D)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (LTHVh)
It got a a decent amount of work in Iraq, mostly tank crews shooting folks too close to depress the MG and in some house clearing. A reliable pistol is important to a few folks, but it's not as big a deal as a reliable rifle.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:03 PM (0wojp)
Posted by: imp at January 23, 2017 06:02 PM (XIXZz)
Actually I bought a great, and I mean great, pound cake at the Commissary the other day from Germany
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:03 PM (sRFAL)
Posted by: Bob at January 23, 2017 06:04 PM (RhcUk)
Posted by: Javems at January 23, 2017 06:04 PM (yOqwj)
Posted by: @votermom @vm at January 23, 2017 06:04 PM (Om16U)
Love the pistol. Terrific trigger and excellent function. It does have a higher bore axis relative to its competitors, which can affect recoil. I am not that great a shot where it makes much of a difference to me.
Everyone needs to know that Sig Sauer is essentially an American company now. They left Europe because of the anti-gun environment and are now HQ'd here in the US. The CEO is an American and so are his staff as I understand it. Pistol is made here in the US by US workers. That cannot be said of any of the other competitors in the competition.
Posted by: ChuckinTX at January 23, 2017 06:04 PM (Nm3dN)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 23, 2017 06:04 PM (IqV8l)
Posted by: Triggly Puff at January 23, 2017 06:04 PM (0HoCS)
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (m9RuU)
I used to think the same thing until I saw the cover of the book, My Men Are My Heroes- The Brad Kassel Story.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (/BXzQ)
I had a P250, the predecessor to the 320 (spurless hammer fired, instead of striker). Very modular, nice aiming and accurate as all get-out (but it was a full sized frame and slide).
Feels much better than the Glock, but for the weight of the pistol, the military should go with 40, since the full sized frame makes even the 40 recoil very mild.
Posted by: imp at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (XIXZz)
Posted by: Skookumchuk at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (VrEUT)
To paraphrase Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley, at that point, there will be plenty of M4s laying on the ground for you to use.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (LTHVh)
Wasn't the M9 chosen because it passed the 20K without a misfire test? I
mean, how often do you fire a sidearm, even in a combat zone, or
perhaps, especially in a combat zone?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (LTHVh)
Yup. It was pretty damned reliable. Biggest complaint was the grip angle and the manual safety placement. Both things were corrected on the M9A3 platform. The M9A3 mimics the 1911 grip angle and they rotated the safety so you can't easily mistakenly engage it with a slide rack.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (pUDQf)
https://twitter.com/Lrihendry/status/823661653413740550
It's a Trumptivus Miracle!!!!
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:01 PM (LTHVh)
Individually, you don't, but the same weapon goes back to the armory and given to the next guy over and over for decades. Plus training.
Posted by: hogmartin at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (8nWyX)
You guys are gonna have to share.
Posted by: deadpool at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (lmIoG)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (IqV8l)
Posted by: @votermom @vm at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (Om16U)
Posted by: Bob at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (RhcUk)
Posted by: ChuckinTX at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (Nm3dN)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:02 PM (sRFAL)
Oh FFS...they give you guys weapons?
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (IcN+T)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (/BXzQ)
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (m9RuU)
http://tinyurl.com/h9psjxl
9mm performance has improved in the police and civilian sectors due to much improved bullet construction. Military being limited to FMJ means that improvement is not happening there.
Posted by: geoffb5 at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (d3wbb)
Wow. That's were an old M3 would have been handy.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (LTHVh)
Perfect gift for Michael Moore.
http://tinyurl.com/zyjqz32
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Laugh at a joke, get another joke free! at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (Nwg0u)
To paraphrase Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley, at that point, there will be plenty of M4s laying on the ground for you to use.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:05 PM (LTHVh)
Exactly. Love his comments about the plastic black rifle.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:07 PM (pUDQf)
Posted by: Weasel at January 23, 2017 06:07 PM (Sfs6o)
Posted by: Third jihadi at January 23, 2017 06:07 PM (qUNWi)
So a rather economical, cost-savvy choice from a proven manufacturer.
Posted by: Jamie at January 23, 2017 06:07 PM (xuma8)
Actually I bought a great, and I mean great, pound cake at the Commissary the other day from Germany
Posted by: Nevergiveup
Suck it, Trebek!
Nothing "Sig Sauer" comes from Germany anymore, wiseacre.
Posted by: imp at January 23, 2017 06:07 PM (XIXZz)
After all, if you're just going to sit around in a comfy chair and snooze all day, why not do it at the Supreme Court instead of at home?
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at January 23, 2017 06:08 PM (nd1zx)
Posted by: Ben Had at January 23, 2017 06:08 PM (46b1N)
Posted by: LizLem at January 23, 2017 06:08 PM (gISTG)
Are you trying to get us all banned?
Posted by: Crusader at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (ewSN2)
Since modern 9mm ammo can poke holes quite a bit bigger than .356 in a target (Winchester Ranger T-Series 127g had average expansion to .740 in Lucky Gunner's gel tests).
But I *do* endorse the idea of caliber wars, started by ace hisself, on Mondays. Better than GAINZZZZ for some of us.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (QDnY+)
GINSBERG RESIGNING
-------------
Did you see her in the gigapixel photo, she was dead asleep, head practically in her lap.
Posted by: Javems at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (yOqwj)
Oh FFS...they give you guys weapons?
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (IcN+T)
Begrudgingly LOL
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (sRFAL)
Posted by: LizLem at January 23, 2017 06:08 PM (gISTG)
Recipes.
We've been keeping that from you.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (z79tQ)
Posted by: @votermom @vm at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (Om16U)
Posted by: Ben Had at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (46b1N)
Boobs.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (LTHVh)
it is a pretty cool gun.
Posted by: yankeefifth at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (cPsPa)
Posted by: @votermom @vm at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (Om16U)
Don't throw it away...your time will come.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (sRFAL)
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (SIY7D)
Posted by: LizLem
Bewbs.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (E9ede)
It's like Trump has a royal flush and the best poker face in the world.
Could Roe v Wade be on the table?
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (pUDQf)
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (nd1zx)
2) 9mm is also the standard NATO round. Standardization.
3) If you fire accurately, firing rapidly is less of a concern.
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 05:58 PM (m9RuU)
Embrace the power of "and."
4) Even as a 10mm Auto partisan, I'm not that much interested in which major or near-major caliber people choose. Not the highest priority.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (wB8Tg)
Posted by: Earl Anthony at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (1JnAL)
https://twitter.com/Lrihendry/status/823661653413740550
It's a Trumptivus Miracle!!!!
-
So all this time she's been a deep cover Republican?!!!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Laugh at a joke, get another joke free! at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (Nwg0u)
Wow. That's were an old M3 would have been handy.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:06 PM (LTHVh)
Yeah, that's still a serious man-stopper. Not terribly easy to carry and kinda primitive but it works. I think they stopped issuing them in '92? Maybe someone can refresh my memory there.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:11 PM (0wojp)
Posted by: LizLem at January 23, 2017 06:11 PM (gISTG)
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at January 23, 2017 06:11 PM (IcN+T)
Posted by: eleven at January 23, 2017 06:11 PM (qUNWi)
I've got a Walther PPKS .380, best handgun I've ever fired 'cuz it fits ME.
Posted by: antisocialist at January 23, 2017 06:11 PM (W2wn0)
Holy Shit. Holy Shit.
It's like Trump has a royal flush and the best poker face in the world.
Could Roe v Wade be on the table?
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (pUDQf)
Crap, ya'll got me excited over nothing!
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:11 PM (pUDQf)
Posted by: rickl at January 23, 2017 06:12 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: rd at January 23, 2017 06:12 PM (iT57s)
Posted by: squeakywheel at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (fce+O)
Posted by: IC at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (a0IVu)
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (0wojp)
if she resigned later, after the new republican was already on the bench, they would be more likely to send through another conservative.
Posted by: yankeefifth at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (cPsPa)
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (LTHVh)
----
Wouldn't her resigning in a flounciful huff just play into the hands of the evil Trump? I'm surprised she's keeping her word.
It could just be for health reasons -- she looked like a praying mantis carapace at the inauguration.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (EnKk6)
Posted by: Skip at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (0AwCy)
In the sniper trade, the 4-7-10 split is considered to be among the most difficult.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Mike at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (c056A)
Been watching Fox while surfing, are we sure Zombie Ruthy is calling it a day?
Posted by: Skip at January 23, 2017 06:13 PM (0AwCy)
No, it was apparently "fake news".
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (pUDQf)
I think the Ginsburg story is fishy...
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (8iiMU)
Seems to me like a waste of taxpayer dollars to change.
Posted by: Maritime at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (lzxL6)
Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (VdICR)
Posted by: LizLem
Bewbs.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 06:10 PM (E9ede)
------
And then recipes, but sadly it rarely comes to that.
Posted by: bluebell at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (sBOL1)
She will fade to invisibility as the ring takes full control.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Skip at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (0AwCy)
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (m9RuU)
For example, you can have a full-sized frame with suppressor/tac-light and a sub-compact for CCW in the same gun.
Posted by: ATLDiver at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (qcr5D)
I do like the lug on the bottom of the barrel and the keyed slide release/cross key lever that takes the place of the 1911 toggle link, but I wish I knew a way to make the trigger crisp.
Posted by: Kindltot at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (UZg+f)
Posted by: Maritime at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (lzxL6)
And your point?
Posted by: The Pentagon at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (sRFAL)
I remember first hearing about Scalia dying and was hoping against hope it was just a bullshit rumor.
Posted by: Maritime at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (lzxL6)
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 05:52 PM (0wojp)
You should hold an auction on the HQ.
Posted by: Country Boy - Stay Deplorable My Friends at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (djWTI)
Still not tired of all this winning.
Posted by: Lurking Canuc at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (pbkWd)
Posted by: Skookumchuk at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (VrEUT)
Not the new Trump-led GOP.
Fuck you, War.
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (SIY7D)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (/BXzQ)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (8ZskC)
Seems to me like a waste of taxpayer dollars to change.
Posted by: Maritime at January 23, 2017 06:14 PM (lzxL6)
Most M9's in service are pretty blown out. Most are way, way over their service life. A replacement is called for, but not for frelling $500 million. Jeez.
No offense to SIG, they make good guns, but still...
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (0wojp)
Posted by: Lurking Canuc at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (pbkWd)
Posted by: Maritime at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (lzxL6)
I was out to Dinner and promptly lost my appitite
Posted by: The Pentagon at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (sRFAL)
Posted by: 80's music fan at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (PHcLa)
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:09 PM (QDnY+)
Initially, the US was not a signatory to (IIRC) Article IV, 3 of the Hague Accords, which banned expanding ammunition in warfare.
The US has generally held to it all the same, because NATO standards for sharing equipment and munitions.
I had *heard* that, recently, the US signed on, but I can't find a reference. If *not*, we can still use expanding ammo in war whenever we please, the only consequence being winning and whining.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 23, 2017 06:17 PM (wB8Tg)
Posted by: Skip at January 23, 2017 06:17 PM (0AwCy)
I do like the lug on the bottom of the barrel and the keyed slide release/cross key lever that takes the place of the 1911 toggle link, but I wish I knew a way to make the trigger crisp.
Posted by: Kindltot at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (UZg+f)
----------
Agreed. Short reset trigger seems to help a little, at least for me.
Posted by: Weasel at January 23, 2017 06:17 PM (Sfs6o)
Have to get them in between post 101 & 200. Threads don't usually last too long after 200.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 06:17 PM (E9ede)
Posted by: Jerry Seinfeld at January 23, 2017 06:17 PM (pbkWd)
guessing her resignation is strategic, she is thinking that resigning now
If she was thinking straegicly she would've retired two years ago
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at January 23, 2017 06:17 PM (lKyWE)
Don't mess with US military dentists while on a banzai charge, I guess would be the moral there.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (QDnY+)
Posted by: Count de Monet at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (JO9+V)
Wait, no, is this real?? My schaedenboner is going to be suffering from premature ejaculation. I'm 18 again! Maggie, don't leave! I can go again...
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (ty7RM)
Posted by: Country Boy - Stay Deplorable My Friends at January 23, 2017 06:15 PM (djWTI)
I'm in WA state. Private transfers are a pain now. I'm hoping to sell the lot to local gun store, maybe. I have about 10 long guns and 20 pistols to cull. Still leaves me plenty and would make ammo storage easier.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (0wojp)
Abe Vigoda is dead but Ruth Vader Ginsburg lives on.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (8ZskC)
I saw her at the inauguration and she looked like a dried up coconut husk..I am not even sure if she is 'all there' anymore.
Posted by: IC at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (a0IVu)
Posted by: antisocialist at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (W2wn0)
Posted by: 350 gr Crossbow at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (1CroS)
Posted by: antisocialist at January 23, 2017 06:11 PM (W2wn0)
This is THE criterion!
Posted by: Hrothgar at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (9LSzT)
Posted by: Zakn at January 23, 2017 06:19 PM (BijY5)
Posted by: Ruth Baader-Meinhof at January 23, 2017 06:19 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:19 PM (sRFAL)
Don't mess with US military dentists while on a banzai charge, I guess would be the moral there.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (QDnY+)
I'm ready Coach, put me in
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:20 PM (sRFAL)
The average American cop barely shoots his or her weapon.
Juuuuuuuuuuuust enough for qualification and periodic requal.
As evidenced by the vigorous aftermarket of civilians buying "police trade-ins" which often look factory new in the internals, other than external wear-and-handling marks from riding in a holster.
Hence, "frame damage" is a red herring.
The unvoiced reason why they're going back from .40 to 9mm is because women have a harder time qualifying with the heftier caliber, and Grrrrrrrrrl Power overrides all other considerations on the table.
Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (noWW6)
Posted by: Barney Frank at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (1JnAL)
Star Wars Episode 8 title?
"The Last Jedi"
I guess that makes Star Wars Episode 9-
"The Siths Go to Paris"
Cuz they're not gonna have anyone to fight.
It'll be one of those light holiday comedies, where Snoke tries to find the perfect Coq au Vin on his holiday in Paris and falls into a time portal where he meets Hemingway in the 1920's.
Hijinks ensue!
Posted by: naturalfake at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (9q7Dl)
Anyone know how many 1911s CMP is sitting on? Or how many may be in warehouses collecting rust and dust?
The joys of gubmint spending.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (5VlCp)
Maybe Maetenloch has two, could make him an offer.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (QDnY+)
https://twitter.com/Lrihendry/status/823661653413740550
Posted by: @votermom @vm at January 23, 2017 06:04 PM (Om16U
That page doesn't exist.
Posted by: buzzion at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (cAnNx)
Posted by: Tominca at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (VFWX5)
Posted by: Bigby's Ouija Board at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (U0lQa)
Disclaimer - one of the above "facts" is fake.
Posted by: Count de Monet at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (JO9+V)
First shot is usually close to center, follow up shot always in the upper right quadrant.
Follow up shots are much easier and accurate with a 9mm.
I think I may be making a change soon.
Posted by: Skunky Choom at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (u/p7K)
My only beef with the Sig is the spongy trigger.
I do like the lug on the bottom of the barrel and the keyed slide release/cross key lever that takes the place of the 1911 toggle link, but I wish I knew a way to make the trigger crisp.
Posted by: Kindltot
If the 320 trigger is the same polished DAO job as the 250, it is smother than butter from a lactating woman of Peruvia.
I love a DAO that feels like the single action stage of any other gun.
Posted by: imp at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (XIXZz)
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (ty7RM)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (/BXzQ)
Well, there are one or two problems, said an IDF soldier who needed to fire but couldn't find his magazine because the large flapper release caught on something he ran by...
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (wB8Tg)
Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (noWW6)
Yup....
Was funny in the 90's... as ships would transition from all Male, to mixed crews, they would change from the .45s to 9s...
Because the 9 was SOOOOOOO much better because..... Shud up!
Posted by: Don Q. at January 23, 2017 06:23 PM (qf6WZ)
What a piece of sh!t. But you knew that.
Posted by: IrishEi at January 23, 2017 06:23 PM (HiDrR)
I owned a 229 with a DAK trigger. Loved it, made rapid shots so much easier. But...couldn't see owning a 9mm with a 13 round capacity. Sold it for a Kel-Tec Sub 2000, I think. But loved that Kellerman trigger on the SIG.
Stock SIG trigger, yeah, I'm with you there. I don't like DA/SA hammer fired pistols anyway.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:23 PM (0wojp)
I'm in WA state. Private transfers are a pain
now. I'm hoping to sell the lot to local gun store, maybe. I have about
10 long guns and 20 pistols to cull. Still leaves me plenty and would
make ammo storage easier.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (0wojp)
If you have anything that is not vanilla standard, you might consider finding someone to sell in on GunBroker. It is hard to find someone who really wants the odd stuff locally especially when the state is kneeling on you, but there are collectors who have to have the entire sequence - of say - Australian contract shotguns or whatever.
Posted by: Kindltot at January 23, 2017 06:23 PM (UZg+f)
The joys of gubmint spending.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (5VlCp)
Over there in the back, next to the Ark of the Covenant.
Posted by: Top Men at January 23, 2017 06:24 PM (JO9+V)
Posted by: geoffb5 at January 23, 2017 06:24 PM (d3wbb)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:24 PM (LTHVh)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 23, 2017 06:16 PM (/BXzQ)
I don't know if a head-to-head test has been done on the military versions, but I have never heard one good thing about the the civilian version from anyone who owns one.
Posted by: hogmartin at January 23, 2017 06:25 PM (8nWyX)
Rashid Khalids dick doesn't suck itself.
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:25 PM (m9RuU)
And is the M9 a militarized 92?
Posted by: teej at January 23, 2017 06:26 PM (iMDvh)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:19 PM (sRFAL)
The real shocker is that the NYT found that as well, that U.N.C. Soros funded 56 of the groups behind the march.
Blind squirrels and nuts...
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 23, 2017 06:26 PM (wB8Tg)
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:26 PM (m9RuU)
How is that done? Can't Trump put a stop on the check?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:26 PM (LTHVh)
Sorry about that.
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at January 23, 2017 06:26 PM (pbkWd)
Eh, we've been down to the last Jedi once already.
If anything this establishes that they're following the map for IV-VI pretty closely.
Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at January 23, 2017 06:27 PM (a8eFL)
Seriously? TFG is like a bad, hot fart, it just doesn't leave the room.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2017 06:27 PM (ty7RM)
The USMC Raiders are dumping their Colt 1911s, which are beautiful pistols. Would love to get my hands on one if they make it to the open market.
Posted by: UGAdawg at January 23, 2017 06:27 PM (HL3BI)
[activating 1MC] [crackle, crackle, hiss]
Now hear this, now hear this
In order to maintain our reputation as a Smart Military Blog, the log is now corrected to show that the unfired diameter of a 9mm bullet is 0.355".
That is all.
[crackle, hiss, pop]
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 23, 2017 06:28 PM (DMUuz)
Kagen and Sotomayor will just carry her around like its "Weekend at Bernies"
Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at January 23, 2017 06:28 PM (1JnAL)
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:28 PM (QDnY+)
Bill Belichick on being asked about the Atlanta Falcons in the Super Bowl
This guy is the best, I'm telling you, he should be hired as Trump's Press Secretary.
Posted by: Malcolm Tent at January 23, 2017 06:28 PM (IvU1J)
The media down played his heroic past and decided to back a slacker, cockhound like Bill Clinton.
While H. W. is in a tough situation in the hospital. Reporting that coming out of a bronchoscopy, and asked the doctor that he hoped to see the Super Bowl. It just tells the store of our greatest generation.
Posted by: redenzo at January 23, 2017 06:29 PM (5wSNN)
Now it's a "smart military AND reloading blog" ......
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (QDnY+)
Hand grip size is easy to swap out, but it's kind of pricy to change frame size because you have to buy barrel, slide and grips.
Posted by: stace at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (ozZau)
http://tinyurl.com/hef6cxn
Posted by: josephistan at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (7qAYi)
The rationale given for new standard-issue JHPs is basically the rationale for their use in general - it's safer and more effective.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 23, 2017 06:31 PM (wB8Tg)
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:28 PM (QDnY+)
Except its the first line of defense if someone is trying to get aboard a ship in port.
Or through a Gate at a military base.
or trying to go one and one with a Military Cop...
Posted by: Don Q. at January 23, 2017 06:31 PM (qf6WZ)
Very very good thing, as the handful of flyers who were POWs on that island were murdered (and partially eaten) by the Japanese.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:32 PM (QDnY+)
Posted by: IC at January 23, 2017 06:32 PM (a0IVu)
Kagen and Sotomayor will just carry her around like its "Weekend at Bernies"
No John, she is just taking some time powdering her nose. She asked me to vote for her.
Posted by: rd at January 23, 2017 06:32 PM (iT57s)
http://tinyurl.com/hef6cxn
Posted by: josephistan at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (7qAYi)
It is the same one that was up in ALL Military Sites Saturday AM
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:32 PM (sRFAL)
Posted by: Ben Had at January 23, 2017 06:33 PM (46b1N)
We'll see this play out in due time.
Posted by: Fritz at January 23, 2017 06:34 PM (FmNHR)
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at January 23, 2017 06:34 PM (vNAqW)
Posted by: Just Saying at January 23, 2017 06:35 PM (RrOfr)
http://tinyurl.com/hef6cxn
Posted by: josephistan at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (7qAYi)
Lol! Love it!
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 23, 2017 06:35 PM (4ErVI)
Blind squirrels and nuts...
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 23, 2017 06:26 PM (wB8Tg)
The woman who wrote that NYT Soros story also in that article exposed some of the jihad crap that Sarsour woman has been up to.
One of the better things about the pussy march was that now this woman is getting a lot of unwanted scrutiny.
One thing Trump and congress need to do pronto is declare the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist org.
Posted by: stace at January 23, 2017 06:36 PM (ozZau)
...anyone with Expressive Wrists.
Posted by: Brian Dennehy at January 23, 2017 06:36 PM (m9RuU)
http://tinyurl.com/hef6cxn
Posted by: josephistan at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (7qAYi)
I like one comment at that link: "I don't think we need build a wall on our Southern border, just post that portrait all along the border that should do. Stay the hell out just oozes out of that picture."
Posted by: rickl at January 23, 2017 06:36 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Big V at January 23, 2017 06:37 PM (+4gNC)
Also, it fits nicely in your Messenger Bag.
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:37 PM (m9RuU)
The joys of gubmint spending.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 23, 2017 06:21 PM (5VlCp)
Over there in the back, next to the Ark of the Covenant.
Posted by: Top Men at January 23, 2017 06:24 PM (JO9+V)
Ummmmm....you mean there on Oak Island too?
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 23, 2017 06:37 PM (5VlCp)
Posted by: bluebell at January 23, 2017 05:58 PM (sBOL1)
Agreed, but if you pronounce it "pro-shoot," I will have to kill you.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 23, 2017 06:37 PM (rF0hx)
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 23, 2017 06:18 PM (0wojp)
You have that many TO CULL?
Impressive.
Posted by: Country Boy - Stay Deplorable My Friends at January 23, 2017 06:37 PM (djWTI)
Posted by: JuJuBee at January 23, 2017 06:38 PM (dargh)
Posted by: Jean at January 23, 2017 06:38 PM (Ja56Y)
Posted by: redenzo at January 23, 2017 06:38 PM (5wSNN)
http://tinyurl.com/hef6cxn
Posted by: josephistan at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (7qAYi)
It is the same one that was up in ALL Military Sites Saturday AM
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:32 PM (sRFAL)
It was strangely missing when I passed by a particular high profile office where I work. Perhaps it will be up tomorrow.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 23, 2017 06:39 PM (EnKk6)
Ever see those hoarders shows with a 'Cat Lady'.
Guns can be like that.
I mean, how you gonna say no to a gun that just needs a home and someone to love it?
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:39 PM (m9RuU)
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at January 23, 2017 06:40 PM (oVJmc)
Did you actually read content you posted? The article says 40 cal, wears guns out faster, has more recoil, and ultimately ***still can't kill or stop reliably in one hit*** therefore it wasnt a practical advantage.
The 45ACP does kill/stop well with one hit, which is why the Army adopted it ahead of the .38ACP which has comparable performance to the 9mm and was available at the time for the Colt 1902.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at January 23, 2017 06:40 PM (6rfWc)
Posted by: Javems at January 23, 2017 06:40 PM (yOqwj)
Posted by: Skunky Choom at January 23, 2017 06:40 PM (u/p7K)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:40 PM (LTHVh)
are usually .356, and you can get them up to .357 from some suppliers if
your bore is a bit on the large side.
Now it's a "smart military AND reloading blog" ......
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM
I do, but never have reloaded lead in 9mm, so haven't considered that. The only pistol I reload lead for is .45ACP. I do use lead in most revolvers. .45LC (and no it shouldn't really be called LC) revolvers seem to have the biggest bore variations.
It's also interesting how often one of the chambers on a revolver is different than the others, size-wise.
And 2400 ain't worth a d*mn in .41 Mag.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM (DMUuz)
Posted by: bluebell at January 23, 2017 05:58 PM (sBOL1)
Agreed, but if you pronounce it "pro-shoot," I will have to kill you.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 23, 2017 06:37 PM (rF0hx)
Give me the gabba-go!
Posted by: Tony Soprano at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM (7qAYi)
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 23, 2017 06:39 PM (EnKk
really? Report them
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM (sRFAL)
The first question we need to answer: what is the intended use of the pistol? Why do troops have a pistol?
Answer: it's intended as a defensive weapon, the weapon you only use when things are going wrong. As this article puts it: "In the military, a handgun is a backup only used when a rifle or carbine is malfunctioning, out of ammo, or unavailable." (I believe there might be some circumstances where a Special Forces team might use a pistol as a primary weapon, but if so that would be rare; as far as I know, SF would rather use a rifle than a pistol just like everyone else. And anyway those guys already have their special SOCOM pistol.)
http://bit.ly/2iXQNdX
Now, when attacking, the military is perfectly happy to inflict wounds rather than kills. A wounded soldier is generally pulled out of the battle and sent to the hospital, so a wound effectively takes an opponent out of the fight. But when things go wrong and a soldier needs to pull out a pistol in a hurry, then just like a police officer or an ordinary citizen, the intent is to stop the other guy. Stopping power, not lethality or wounding power, is the goal.
If the military is going to use full-metal jacket ammo, then .45 ACP is very much superior to 9mm. 9mm FMJ wounds like an ice pick: skinny holes with deep penetration. The guy shot by 9mm FMJ might die someday but might have time to finish running up to you with a knife or whatever. So *if* the military is only going to use FMJ I would prefer to see a return to .45 ACP.
However! News reports are that the military is considering going to hollowpoint ammo for the 9mm, and that would change everything. 9mm performs adequately with hollowpoints. The bullet expands and stops acting like an ice pick, and messes up more tissue.
Reports the military will move to hollowpoints:
http://bit.ly/2jjqkG8
http://bit.ly/2j7loB8
Advantages of hollowpoints:
http://bit.ly/2jVArCp
Note that it is actually more humane to use hollowpoints. Imagine that Person A attacks a soldier, and the soldier shoots him with 9mm FMJ. The FMJ doesn't stop Person A so the soldier keeps shooting him. In the end, Person A ends up with 8 entry wounds, 8 wound tracks, and 8 exit wounds. Now imagine that Person B attacks a soldier who shoots him with 9mm hollowpoints. After one or two shots Person B is stopped, and the soldier stops shooting him. Person B has one or two entry wounds and wound tracks, and no exit wounds. Person B is less likely to die and doctors will have less damage to treat. Both scenarios are imaginary but the basic point is sound: when the bullet works better, fewer bullets stop the threat, and that's just better for everyone, even the person being shot.
I just hope the military gets something a bit smaller than the current M9. The M9 has a large-capacity magazine and is a bit fat in the grip, and I have read that anyone with small hands (most females in the miltary, and many males) have trouble comfortably holding it. It would be better to sacrifice some capacity for a more universally comfortable grip, because in defensive pistol use the game is shots on target fast and accurately, not hosing the target down with lots and lots of bullets.
http://fxn.ws/2kaGYWZ
Posted by: mr_jack at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM (M59SC)
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM (kumBu)
Posted by: garrett at January 23, 2017 06:42 PM (m9RuU)
Bet if she threaten to blow up a teepee she would have protested
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2017 06:43 PM (sRFAL)
Posted by: Skookumchuk at January 23, 2017 06:43 PM (VrEUT)
Let them talk. They further "out" they go, the more people see just how crazy they are.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 06:43 PM (E9ede)
Follow up shots are much easier and accurate with a 9mm.
I think I may be making a change soon.
Posted by: Skunky Choom at January 23, 2017 06:22 PM (u/p7K)
I've only shot .40 once, and it was at the Texas Game Warden training center. They use Glocks (because of the messy field environment, and maybe for cost too) in .40.
The took out almost the entire left lung of the "bad guy" I shot, since I was pulling to the right the whole time.
Posted by: stace at January 23, 2017 06:43 PM (ozZau)
I find that controlling barrel rise on the .40SW Sigma is a p.i.t.a.
Posted by: Skunky Choom at January 23, 2017 06:40 PM (u/p7K)
My HK .40SW USP is a dream. It's full size, so it has a bit of heft, but I find it much easier to control than a 9mm, and certainly more pleasant to fire.
I can keep double taps within a couple of inches without much trouble....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 23, 2017 06:43 PM (rF0hx)
Posted by: Skookumchuk at January 23, 2017 06:44 PM (VrEUT)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 23, 2017 06:45 PM (IqV8l)
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at January 23, 2017 06:45 PM (kumBu)
The SW in reality stands for "Short Weak". The 10mm is a very fine cartridge. The .40 SW that was forcibly spawned from it is an abomination, and like most "short" things, has no reason to live.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 23, 2017 06:45 PM (DMUuz)
Posted by: Duncanthrax
I'll be stand waaaaay over there --------------------->
when AtC shows up.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 06:47 PM (E9ede)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 23, 2017 06:48 PM (wB8Tg)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 06:49 PM (E9ede)
Problem is that Sentries in the US, and many other places, do not carry Long Arms...
Neither do Military Police.
On Ship, you will have a Rover, carrying a pistol on Security watch, moving around the Ship...
And a Petty Officer of the Watch, with a Pistol, on the Quarter Deck.
That's it.... your first line of defense even in most foreign ports (sometimes you will add a second topside watch, with Pistol if in a really hinky place).
That's it, until you call away the security team of 10-20 or so (depending on ship size)... which takes getting someone to the armory, and issuing weapons... who will be fully armed.
Same with the Pier Watch.
Same with the Gate Guards at most bases..
Same with the Military Police... who will be the first responders if there is a terrorist strike on a military base...
A good effective pistol is actually very important...
Posted by: Don Q. at January 23, 2017 06:50 PM (qf6WZ)
Yep I have a 320 and am very happy with it - it has a nice trigger and shoots well. I got it through the single-shot-exemption before that got closed. But there's still another way to legally get it in CA if you happen to have family out of the state.
The 320 is truly a modular handgun - the actual 'gun' is just the trigger group (Fire Control Unit in Sig-speak) and you can insert it in any compatible grip frame and add a barrel/slide combination in the size and caliber you desire.
So if I want to go from a Full-sized grip Full-length slide in 9mm to say a sub-compact grip and slide in .40, it's just a matter of swapping out the grip and barrel/slide (and switching to a shorter magazine). Takes less than 30 seconds to swap it out. You can mix and match any combination in grip and slide you like but some combinations will look kinda weird e.g. a sub-compact grip with a full-length slide and full-length magazine.
One nice thing is that each form-factor of the grip is available in small, medium, and large. Medium is what the guns are shipped with but in my case I found the Full grip in medium to be just a tad fat for my hand so I switched it out for a small Full grip (~ $40) and now it fits perfectly.
Posted by: Maetenloch at January 23, 2017 06:51 PM (pAlYe)
http://fxn.ws/2kaGYWZ
Posted by: mr_jack
The bearingarms article says they'll be issuing a compact version and the full sized one.
If' it's truly modular, wouldn't palm-swell additions be part of the concept?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 23, 2017 06:51 PM (DNPz2)
when AtC shows up.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2017 06:47 PM
They're called spiderholes for a reason ...
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 23, 2017 06:51 PM (DMUuz)
I hated the 92s grip geometry. But, when cheap ones litter the gun shows Ill probably get one or two.
Posted by: Jean at January 23, 2017 06:51 PM (Ja56Y)
I keep trying to get my 45acp and 357 to hook up but they are not cooperating
Posted by: Skip at January 23, 2017 06:51 PM (0AwCy)
It seems like a better argument for a change in ROE.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 06:51 PM (LTHVh)
http://tinyurl.com/hef6cxn
Posted by: josephistan at January 23, 2017 06:30 PM (7qAYi)
"Get to work fuckers, or else."
Posted by: Country Boy - Stay Deplorable My Friends at January 23, 2017 06:52 PM (djWTI)
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at January 23, 2017 06:52 PM (oVJmc)
Posted by: Nancy Boy at January 23, 2017 06:53 PM (Tyii7)
They're nice and short and the balance is good. So there are trade offs. I could still see getting one once suppressors are a go. Especially so with the 9mm conversion and some subsonic 147gr.
Posted by: Chupacabra at January 23, 2017 06:53 PM (/x6xU)
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 23, 2017 06:54 PM (SIY7D)
Posted by: Brian Dennehy at January 23, 2017 06:36 PM (m9RuU)
Or that likes jazz hands!
Posted by: Hrothgar at January 23, 2017 06:54 PM (9LSzT)
Posted by: Jean at January 23, 2017 06:54 PM (Ja56Y)
My CO at the time had the bright idea to switch his unit instead to old .38s because they where "lighter" no idea how had found that many of them but for about a week we carried what looked like the old police special revolvers.
The BN CO was not amused and after a week we had the M9 I half think the Capt just wanted to have some range time with the .38s they where fun to shoot.
Posted by: Big V at January 23, 2017 06:56 PM (+4gNC)
redenzo, no problem. Your comment was absolutely spot-on, in sentiment and thought. I was just making little nit-picks on GWHB's war-time details.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 06:56 PM (QDnY+)
Posted by: mr_jack at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM (M59SC)
This part is actually a really common myth that seems to have come out of Vietnam, with people using it to justify the switch to the tiny 5.56 in the M-16. Unless you're an assassin, in any engagement, the purpose is to stop. Wound, kill, doesn't matter, just make them stop what they're doing. The military determined that the 5.56 was capable enough of doing that.
Posted by: hogmartin at January 23, 2017 06:56 PM (8nWyX)
"In the military, a handgun is a backup only used when a rifle or carbine is malfunctioning, out of ammo, or unavailable."
Posted by: mr_jack at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM
Usually, but not always. When things get really sweaty the pistol can be option A.
Posted by: otho at January 23, 2017 06:59 PM (lmIoG)
Posted by: Jean at January 23, 2017 07:01 PM (Ja56Y)
When I was in 'Nam and Charlie came over the ridge, and my goddamned rifle jammed, a pistol is what got me through.
Posted by: Brian Williams at January 23, 2017 07:01 PM (SIY7D)
Probably going with the CZ75 as the next buy. Have an XD, and love it, but an all-metal pistol has its appeal.
As for caliber wars, I don't get them. Happy with .38, 9mm, and 45ACP, would love to have 44 and 45LC as well (might, some day). For now, time and attention span make even three handgun calibers more than enough.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 23, 2017 07:03 PM (QDnY+)
Posted by: Advo at January 23, 2017 07:04 PM (rfIyI)
Posted by: mr_jack at January 23, 2017 06:41 PM
Too close for missiles, switching to guns ...
Posted by: Maverick, M-47 Dragon operator at January 23, 2017 07:04 PM (DMUuz)
Posted by: PJ at January 23, 2017 07:05 PM (Rwy1k)
I thought I had heard that the decision was to go with modern pistol ammo with effective expansion qualities. If so, that is a good thing.
Posted by: JJ at January 23, 2017 07:08 PM (IIjEk)
A good effective pistol is actually very important...
Posted by: Don Q. at January 23, 2017 06:50 PM (qf6WZ)
MP's have the long guns in the car, in the guard house and the QRF will be fully kitted out.
One Marine from my battalion was killed a couple years ago as the gate guards were horsing around inside. I didn't know him, he arrived while I was busy with retirement planning and transition stuff, had been in the battalion about 6 months when he was detached to the MP battalion as an auxiliary guard. As the bases maintain higher protective levels, it is far more frequent to see a gate guard with an M4 or M16A4 than solely equipped with the sidearm.
Posted by: The Mouse that Roared at January 23, 2017 07:08 PM (7N6ox)
Posted by: PJ at January 23, 2017 07:09 PM (Rwy1k)
shooting them in the leg so that you don't have to use lethal force? All
the kids in Sociology 101 told me that's we should do.
Posted by: PJ at January 23, 2017 07:05 PM
This is one of the very few scenarios where caliber and bullet type doesn't matter.
The weapon's configuration is critical, however.
You want to make sure the front sight has been completely removed, so that when it's taken away and jammed up your fundamental orifice, it doesn't hurt as much.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 23, 2017 07:11 PM (DMUuz)
Besides, it just doesn't matter that much. Combat performance of rifles is so, so much better than pistols you're just using your pistol to get to your rifle.
SOF and other commando types use large caliber pistols for some specialized work, but there aren't that many of them and they pretty much get whatever they want. Whatever the army chooses for the standard sidearm won't affect them.
Posted by: Ace's liver at January 23, 2017 07:11 PM (Xuv2G)
Posted by: Eromero at January 23, 2017 07:14 PM (zLDYs)
The specs I found for the P320 seemed to say it could go .45ACP.
Posted by: the littl shyning man at January 23, 2017 07:15 PM (U6f54)
Does it count if you don't call the shot before hand?
Posted by: Eric at January 23, 2017 07:23 PM (of+54)
Posted by: PJ at January 23, 2017 07:09 PM (Rwy1k)
These days nearly all Sig guns that you can buy in stores are made in the New Hampshire factory (I believe the exceptions are the .22 Mosquito and a few custom models). So Sig USA is truly a US company even if Sig Germany still owns a significant share. And there are reports that the NH plant is nearing capacity and Sig is having a hard time finding enough qualified workers locally and so they're looking at opening up a second facility in the southeast - maybe AR or TN.
Posted by: Maetenloch at January 23, 2017 07:24 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: A man from Nantucket at January 23, 2017 07:27 PM (VV4qd)
They will flood their front page thusly with anti-Trump stories from now on.
Posted by: the littl shyning man at January 23, 2017 07:29 PM (U6f54)
Posted by: irongrampa at January 23, 2017 07:32 PM (X35Yt)
I agree completely. The point I was trying to make is that any time you are using a pistol, you are fighting at pistol range, and you need it to stop the other guy immediately.
Posted by: mr_jack at January 23, 2017 07:35 PM (M59SC)
Posted by: KWDreaming at January 23, 2017 07:35 PM (AkcYt)
Posted by: Spun and Murky at January 23, 2017 07:35 PM (4DCSq)
Posted by: Spidly at January 23, 2017 07:54 PM (buP4J)
All else being equal, you always want as much stopping power as you can get. But for good reasons, our troops mostly use an intermediate rifle cartridge rather than a full-power battle rifle cartridge.
Of course, if you shoot the other guy with an M16 rifle (or an M4 carbine) at pistol range, that will ruin his whole day. While derided as a "mere .22" the 5.56mm NATO has a lot more energy than a pistol cartridge. And I've been told that the bullet often breaks into two pieces, making two wound tracks, helping with stopping power.
I've read that some people wish we could adopt a new rifle cartridge that has a slightly larger bullet than the 5.56mm currently used, for better performance at long range and for better defeating body armor. But there would be horrible hassles for a long time, needing to stock multiple kinds of ammo, weapons, and spare parts; and I think the feeling continues to be that the 5.56mm NATO is getting the job done.
http://bit.ly/2jqQG6Y
http://bit.ly/2jqJSWQ
Disclaimer that I'm not any kind of expert continues to apply.
Posted by: mr_jack at January 23, 2017 07:54 PM (M59SC)
A SIG 320 shooter DID WIN, the inaugural AoS Postal Handgun Match.
In addition. The 320 does have a crisp, 1911-like trigger, with a very short reset. It's not the usual hammer fired SIG mushbutton.
Buying one is on my "to do" list, actually. I've handled one, but haven't got to shoot one as yet.
Still, I think it'll prove to be a wise purchase.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Posted by: Jim at January 23, 2017 07:59 PM (v5iqM)
I've read that some people wish we could adopt a new rifle cartridge that has a slightly larger bullet than the 5.56mm currently used, for better performance at long range and for better defeating body armor.
6.8 SPC. One of my ARs is in that cal.
Great hog gun...
Posted by: Spun and Murky at January 23, 2017 08:05 PM (4DCSq)
Posted by: Muns at January 23, 2017 08:08 PM (TvBDq)
Special Agent UREY W. PATRICK
FIREARMS TRAINING UNIT FBI ACADEMY QUANTICO, VIRGINIA July 14, 1989
http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf
Posted by: Spidly at January 23, 2017 08:18 PM (buP4J)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 23, 2017 08:55 PM (LTHVh)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyBfrf7iitA
Most impressive. Scarily accurate and incredibly modular. It can be converted to a compact, or a different calibre, very very easily. And the breakdown is pretty simple. It's kind of cool that you can have a new slide+barrel or a new frame shipped to your home, because they are not "the gun". I would imagine that the breakdown and the easy of maintenance were a big part of the decision. Also, being striker fired, there's not the single/double action business messing up the trigger pull from 1st to 2nd shot. Of course, you can go with a hammer and single action only like the p238. Hickok45 is definitely a pro striker fan (he lives and breathes Glocks).
Posted by: MichiCanuck at January 23, 2017 08:56 PM (Dsswr)
Posted by: MichiCanuck at January
even though he does not like the way the fit his hand.
Posted by: yankeefifth at January 23, 2017 10:06 PM (cPsPa)
Posted by: S at January 23, 2017 10:10 PM (YtzJ5)
Posted by: TwoDogs at January 23, 2017 10:32 PM (1HNby)
Close combat is about immediately disabling the enemy so he can't shoot at you any more. Kill shots with a pistol at typical combat range rarely produces an immediate result because fast acting kill zones are pretty small and cops are not taught to go for the head shot. So.... the phono needle vs. the bowling ball. The .45acp and various .44 versions are very effective knock-down slugs at around 230 to 240 grains moving at around 850 fps out of the barrel. 150 grain 9mm not so much.
Posted by: stpaulchuck at January 23, 2017 11:05 PM (f7X1b)
Unfortunately, from my former service, I did not see much interest nor importance put upon for marksmanship or small arms use in general. The weapons I qualified on were worn out pieces of junk that were purposefully left dirty by the MTU unit prior to our qualifications so we had to clean their mess up after firing our minimal number of rounds. In basic, we used a gosh awful .22 LR conversion unit with multiple jams, poor sighting, etc. It took me years to get the bad taste out of my mouth about the AR and even more before I got one.
They did bring aboard the Beretta in my service to replace the old S&W Model 15 revolvers but those Berettas were made for people with large hands. I did not shoot them worth a flip compared with being a decent shot with the Model 15 despite the crappy .38 special service ammo nearly out of date.
As my father was an army officer in ordnance, I saw the same lack of importance placed by the higher ups on combat qualifications such as marksmanship. Other items rated much higher for support units. That being said, my father was a crack shot with the .45, Garand, M-14, and the AR. Unfortunately, I did not inherit his great hand-eye coordination. I have to work for every shot.
Posted by: whig at January 23, 2017 11:24 PM (R15Tp)
You may prefer something a bit stronger than 9mm ACP; that's fine. But there's no need to sneer at the 9mm. And the military is already standardized on it.
P.S. For 9mm ACP, I believe most experts recommend a lighter bullet that will have more velocity. If I'm not mistaken, 115 grain +P rounds are favored. At 150 grains a 9mm ACP bullet would be subsonic; just the thing for special forces using suppressed MP5 subguns, but outside that narrow niche application, not recommended.
Posted by: mr_jack at January 24, 2017 12:17 AM (M59SC)
Posted by: Zakn at January 24, 2017 12:52 AM (z49bN)
I call BS on that.
At the rate that LEOs fire their sidearms, it would take until the Last Trump to wear out a gun, and we have only now reached the FIRST Trump.
Posted by: Sendarius at January 24, 2017 03:41 AM (jeubw)
Posted by: ExurbanDoug at January 24, 2017 12:19 PM (8mWEM)
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