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Trump: "Retribution" Coming Against Companies That Move Factories Overseas; Prepares 35% Tariff Bill
Republicans will presumably largely vote against this proposal, but it puts Democrats in a bind: Do they vote for it, according to the promises and rhetoric they make about standing up to Big Business in favor of the Workin' Man, or do they honor their real promises, those made to Big Business?
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 12:46 PM (MQZBa)
Posted by: MERLE HAGGARD at December 05, 2016 12:48 PM (MQZBa)
3
There is a new sheriff in town. Fuck the GOP.
Posted by: nip at December 05, 2016 12:49 PM (L5nkE)
4
RINOs will love that bill. They will join with the Dems and it will pass easily.
Its probably unconstitutional but they will not care.
Its probably unconstitutional but they will not care.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (mpXpK)
5
Not sure how you write into a law a tariff specifically for companies that leave the US without it being a general tariff. What's to stop them from creating a shell subsidiary and then just doing the same?
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (KUaJL)
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (C9pBZ)
7
This is the populist part of Trump I wanted to avoid.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 05, 2016 12:51 PM (IdMiN)
8
Completely unacceptable!
Posted by: The Illuminati at December 05, 2016 12:51 PM (vtcmf)
9
Not sure how you write into a law a tariff specifically for companies that leave the US without it being a general tariff.>>>
Call it a TAX.
Call it a TAX.
Posted by: Judge Roberts at December 05, 2016 12:51 PM (tf9Ne)
10
Is a Winston Wolf reference appropriate?
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 12:52 PM (d6TTt)
11
The Uniparty has lost control of both DC and the Narrative. Doesn't leave them with much but sour grapes.
Sure, they still have the numbers, but their voters are more pissed than they've ever been. Trump is putting them all in an awesome bind: Your voters or your donors... PICK ONE.
Sure, they still have the numbers, but their voters are more pissed than they've ever been. Trump is putting them all in an awesome bind: Your voters or your donors... PICK ONE.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 12:52 PM (S2VsH)
12
News Flash: high taxes, choking regulations, open borders anarchy, cronyism and one-way trade deals do not constitute "free trade".
First pass the carrots. Then come sticks.
First pass the carrots. Then come sticks.
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at December 05, 2016 12:52 PM (Ndje9)
13
Carrots and sticks.
Trump's lede is that he'll "substantially reduce taxes and regulations on businesses."
Trump's lede is that he'll "substantially reduce taxes and regulations on businesses."
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 12:52 PM (SIY7D)
14
>>but it puts Democrats in a bind
Oh, I suspect they'll do anything to oppose Trump.
They would oppose a "save all the puppies and kitties" legislation all while insisting that Trump only wants to save them so that he can eat them (and not knowing the irony of that charge) because: progressives DGAF about anyone but themselves.
Oh, I suspect they'll do anything to oppose Trump.
They would oppose a "save all the puppies and kitties" legislation all while insisting that Trump only wants to save them so that he can eat them (and not knowing the irony of that charge) because: progressives DGAF about anyone but themselves.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 12:52 PM (NOIQH)
15
ATTENTION! Swamp draining work to commence January 21. Please find another route to collecting donations.
Posted by: MTF at December 05, 2016 12:52 PM (sCBEO)
16
5
Not sure how you write into a law a tariff specifically for companies
that leave the US without it being a general tariff. What's to stop them
from creating a shell subsidiary and then just doing the same?
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (KUaJL)
They write bills with little inserts that spell out specific benefits for cronies all the time. They can sure write out bills that spell out "special tariffs". The question is will it be defensible if they get sued.
Not sure how you write into a law a tariff specifically for companies
that leave the US without it being a general tariff. What's to stop them
from creating a shell subsidiary and then just doing the same?
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (KUaJL)
They write bills with little inserts that spell out specific benefits for cronies all the time. They can sure write out bills that spell out "special tariffs". The question is will it be defensible if they get sued.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at December 05, 2016 12:52 PM (mpXpK)
17
BTW, this is the "bully pulpit " that the GOPe failed to recognize.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 12:53 PM (C9pBZ)
18
Sticks in the chili?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 05, 2016 12:53 PM (IqV8l)
19
I'd rather see the corporate tax rate cut to 15%.
Carrots not sticks. (Neither carrots nor sticks in chili.)
Carrots not sticks. (Neither carrots nor sticks in chili.)
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at December 05, 2016 12:53 PM (u0lmX)
20
OMG, it's Kristallnacht all over again.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 05, 2016 12:53 PM (8ZskC)
21
Carrots again? Geesh.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (C9pBZ)
22
Can't even pretend I hate this idea. Want to see all the details worked out and the rats trying to squirm away from it.
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (MlLtD)
23
Willowed last thread.
Brewer has no problems getting Michigan to do what the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton want them to do. If I were the taxpayers in these states I would be pretty pissed off.
And it won't end with this. It won't end while Hillary Clinton lives and breathes. The Democrats won't even be able to get rid of her. Might be a problem for Obama's post presidency.
Posted by: gracepc at December 05, 2016 12:22 PM (OU4q6
This isn't accurate. Michigan has a Board of Canvassers that certifies elections after all canvassing has been completed post election. That Board was created in 1850 and is comprised of two democrats and two republicans appt. by the governor with the consent of the Senate.. The BOD was deadlocked regarding Steins request for a recount. I'm not sure what happened next, but then Stein started looking for a state judge to order the recount. Our republican AG filed a motion to block a recount in the State Supreme Court, so Stein's lawyer team funded by the Democrats and Soros filed a request with a Federal judge, who singularly ordered the recount. He didn't wait for the State Supreme court to rule, he simply decided he had jurisdiction since it involved a federal election, Stein had standing because she was a federal candidate, Michigan's recount laws, rules and the fact that the Canvassing board had already certified the electors was immaterial and now pending an appeal, the State is forced to recount votes.
Remember, the south and states rights lost the civil war. The Feds have been chipping away at Federalism for over a century, this is another demonstration of that.
Yes a lot of residents of Michigan on both sides of the aisle are pissed about this. But we now have a Federal order, just like we had an entire duly voted on amendment to our constitution thrown out because a Federal judge felt sorry for his lesbian clerk who cried to him that she wasn't allowed to adopt a pet child because she wasn't legally married. So he threw out our amendment which our AG appealed all the way to the SC. And we know how that went.
I'm not sure if the AG has filed a federal appeal. Since time is of the essence, if that appeal isn't heard immediately, then the recount will continue.
This is why Article V conventions have been approved by numerous state legislatures and more legislatures have pending approval.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (be9L9
Brewer has no problems getting Michigan to do what the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton want them to do. If I were the taxpayers in these states I would be pretty pissed off.
And it won't end with this. It won't end while Hillary Clinton lives and breathes. The Democrats won't even be able to get rid of her. Might be a problem for Obama's post presidency.
Posted by: gracepc at December 05, 2016 12:22 PM (OU4q6
This isn't accurate. Michigan has a Board of Canvassers that certifies elections after all canvassing has been completed post election. That Board was created in 1850 and is comprised of two democrats and two republicans appt. by the governor with the consent of the Senate.. The BOD was deadlocked regarding Steins request for a recount. I'm not sure what happened next, but then Stein started looking for a state judge to order the recount. Our republican AG filed a motion to block a recount in the State Supreme Court, so Stein's lawyer team funded by the Democrats and Soros filed a request with a Federal judge, who singularly ordered the recount. He didn't wait for the State Supreme court to rule, he simply decided he had jurisdiction since it involved a federal election, Stein had standing because she was a federal candidate, Michigan's recount laws, rules and the fact that the Canvassing board had already certified the electors was immaterial and now pending an appeal, the State is forced to recount votes.
Remember, the south and states rights lost the civil war. The Feds have been chipping away at Federalism for over a century, this is another demonstration of that.
Yes a lot of residents of Michigan on both sides of the aisle are pissed about this. But we now have a Federal order, just like we had an entire duly voted on amendment to our constitution thrown out because a Federal judge felt sorry for his lesbian clerk who cried to him that she wasn't allowed to adopt a pet child because she wasn't legally married. So he threw out our amendment which our AG appealed all the way to the SC. And we know how that went.
I'm not sure if the AG has filed a federal appeal. Since time is of the essence, if that appeal isn't heard immediately, then the recount will continue.
This is why Article V conventions have been approved by numerous state legislatures and more legislatures have pending approval.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (be9L9
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (be9L9)
24
I dunno. Trump knows what any union leader knows: start with some demands that will never be agreed to, then negotiate your way to what you actually wanted. Makes you seem reasonable instead of greedy.
Or you can be like Horseface Kerry and give the other side everything they want in return for nothing, after which you get to intone "this was the best deal we could make..."
Or you can be like Horseface Kerry and give the other side everything they want in return for nothing, after which you get to intone "this was the best deal we could make..."
Posted by: Mallfly suPreme at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (2JQBv)
25
Why 35%? Why not 50% or 90% if you're looking for retribution for free enterprise.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (IdMiN)
26
I like his desire to cut taxes and regulation as a start, but he has to take on the unions as well. They've driven up cost for business so badly that American companies cannot compete. I'm not sure about the penalty, but I'm not against it either. I'm thinking about it right now, unsure.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 05, 2016 12:55 PM (IqV8l)
28
24,
Shhhh. Don't give away the store.
Shhhh. Don't give away the store.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 12:55 PM (C9pBZ)
29
I don't like it, and he's likely to face bipartisan resistance to this move. Better would be if the 'consequences' is public shaming; the bully pulpit worked in part on Carrier because of the negative publicity about their move.
Also better is dropping the corporate tax rate, to reduce the need to move jobs overseas. Combined with vastly reduced regulatory burdens and cheap energy, companies will be lining up to move here, or back here.
Also better is dropping the corporate tax rate, to reduce the need to move jobs overseas. Combined with vastly reduced regulatory burdens and cheap energy, companies will be lining up to move here, or back here.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 05, 2016 12:55 PM (oZEJt)
30
This is dumb. Multinational companies hire people abroad and lay people off everywhere including here. How do you prove a job has been moved?
It will be impossible to tailor legislation tightly enough for this to work.
Also, it's a bad idea to meddle in the private sector this much.
It will be impossible to tailor legislation tightly enough for this to work.
Also, it's a bad idea to meddle in the private sector this much.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, what is a proud Nitwit Lion at December 05, 2016 12:55 PM (mgbwf)
31
24 Kerry got everything he wanted.
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at December 05, 2016 12:56 PM (Ndje9)
32
None of these bastards in congress give a rat's ass about the working man.
Posted by: Fritz at December 05, 2016 12:56 PM (2Mnv1)
33
>>Not sure how you write into a law a tariff specifically for companies that leave the US without it being a general tariff.
Think with Trump it's more about the sentiment than the details.
This is about making companies aware of his preferences and that he's willing to Do Stuff, of both the carrot and stick variety, to Get It Done.
Think with Trump it's more about the sentiment than the details.
This is about making companies aware of his preferences and that he's willing to Do Stuff, of both the carrot and stick variety, to Get It Done.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 12:56 PM (NOIQH)
34
Can't even pretend I hate this idea. Want to see all the details worked out and the rats trying to squirm away from it.
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (MlLtD)
I don't have the intellectual chops to work my way through the idea. My top-of-the-head attitude is that I understand why a company would want to leave the US for a country where environmental and labor laws are lax and that a company's only loyalty is to it's stockholders. But I'd rather see a tax cut incentive here rather than "retribution," whatever that may mean to Trump.
I'll let you all argue it. I'm going back to dreaming about the Opera House ball.
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (MlLtD)
I don't have the intellectual chops to work my way through the idea. My top-of-the-head attitude is that I understand why a company would want to leave the US for a country where environmental and labor laws are lax and that a company's only loyalty is to it's stockholders. But I'd rather see a tax cut incentive here rather than "retribution," whatever that may mean to Trump.
I'll let you all argue it. I'm going back to dreaming about the Opera House ball.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 12:57 PM (X6fMO)
35
Wait - you mean an American politician might actually consider the interests of American citizens over that of large corporations?
Well I'll be...
Well I'll be...
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 12:57 PM (hLRSq)
36
The only solution to this is for the Electoral College to Install Queen FAB as the Lifetime Ruler of the USA.
Posted by: the MSM at December 05, 2016 12:57 PM (nFg65)
37
19 I'd rather see the corporate tax rate cut to 15%.
Carrots not sticks. (Neither carrots nor sticks in chili.)
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at December 05, 2016 12:53 PM (u0lmX)
It'd be nice to see a combination of very low tax rates for domestic companies, including a reduction in regulations and red tape, as well as tariffs on imported goods. Companies can get around the tariff if they have a certain % of production located in the US.
That doesn't mean reducing regulations to the point were we are the new China/Mexico, but if the multinationals want a gamed system we should game their asses right back.
Carrots not sticks. (Neither carrots nor sticks in chili.)
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at December 05, 2016 12:53 PM (u0lmX)
It'd be nice to see a combination of very low tax rates for domestic companies, including a reduction in regulations and red tape, as well as tariffs on imported goods. Companies can get around the tariff if they have a certain % of production located in the US.
That doesn't mean reducing regulations to the point were we are the new China/Mexico, but if the multinationals want a gamed system we should game their asses right back.
Posted by: Alex #11 at December 05, 2016 12:57 PM (EUMt/)
38
Also, it's a bad idea to meddle in the private sector this much. >>>
If this goes through it would be small potatoes as far a Govt meddling in the private sector.
100 watt incandescent bulbs as an example.
If this goes through it would be small potatoes as far a Govt meddling in the private sector.
100 watt incandescent bulbs as an example.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (tf9Ne)
39
Why 35%? Why not 50% or 90% if you're looking for retribution for free enterprise.
Might have something to do with the current corporate tax rate. What if the tariff proposal is just bluster to get the corporate rate cut?
Might have something to do with the current corporate tax rate. What if the tariff proposal is just bluster to get the corporate rate cut?
Posted by: Blanco Basura #Free Cthulhu (with full price purchase of Azatoth or Nyarlathotep) at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (IcT7t)
Posted by: Caitlyn Springsteen at December 05, 2016 12:59 PM (QlyN5)
41
But I'd rather see a tax cut incentive here rather than "retribution," whatever that may mean to Trump.
--
And that's a resonable attitude.
However... businesses don't always respond to "reason." They respond to "you do X, Y happens."
They only care about their bottom line; Trump knows this. So... hit their bottom line.
/you know, like what the electric/gas company does when you don't pay your bill and the turn off their service.
--
And that's a resonable attitude.
However... businesses don't always respond to "reason." They respond to "you do X, Y happens."
They only care about their bottom line; Trump knows this. So... hit their bottom line.
/you know, like what the electric/gas company does when you don't pay your bill and the turn off their service.
Posted by: the MSM at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (nFg65)
42
I have to be productive and get off the blog. One of you tell MP4 that I wrote him back on the last thread.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (6IPEM)
43
Not sure how you write into a law a tariff specifically for companies that leave the US without it being a general tariff. What's to stop them from creating a shell subsidiary and then just doing the same?
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (KUaJL)
I would imagine that they will just make it a general tariff on all goods of that particular sort coming out of that country.
Memo to the new host nation of the factories:
Sure you can take those factories ... but first you will blow me ... and then you'll pony up a 35% tariff on everything they make - 35% on everyone. And then you'll blow me a second time.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 12:50 PM (KUaJL)
I would imagine that they will just make it a general tariff on all goods of that particular sort coming out of that country.
Memo to the new host nation of the factories:
Sure you can take those factories ... but first you will blow me ... and then you'll pony up a 35% tariff on everything they make - 35% on everyone. And then you'll blow me a second time.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (zc3Db)
44
Name something you can do that simultaneously exposes both parties for the shitheels they are?
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (2PHKP)
45
100 watt incandescent bulbs as an example.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (tf9Ne)
Can we get this ban rescinded? Please. What else is a government majority for?
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (tf9Ne)
Can we get this ban rescinded? Please. What else is a government majority for?
Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (92kX2)
46
This targeted tariff talk (catchy, isn't it?) is fine and unavoidable, might even mostly classify as serious jaw-boning that can have short-term positive impact.
But of course the main fight will be to try and restore some sanity and competitiveness to the US business environment.
Ending indefensible regulation - which covers "environmental" nonsense, and lots of occupational safety and labor nonsense as well.
Have a friend haven't spoken with in a while who is a legit expert in quantifying causes of industrial relocation. Gonna call him and see what the best research shows - but I'll bet $13.76 right now that it shows the biggest drivers of departing *well-paying skilled labor* jobs are not wages, but taxes and regulations and labor cartel activity.
Trump, in his rally tick lists, would always include regulatory reform and taxes, so I assume he will be moving on those.
Meanwhile, let the tariff thing horrify the mainstream, and have some impact on freezing corporate decision-making. As long as the important agenda is addressed right away, and punitive tariffs aren't used as an excuse to not take *real* action.
But of course the main fight will be to try and restore some sanity and competitiveness to the US business environment.
Ending indefensible regulation - which covers "environmental" nonsense, and lots of occupational safety and labor nonsense as well.
Have a friend haven't spoken with in a while who is a legit expert in quantifying causes of industrial relocation. Gonna call him and see what the best research shows - but I'll bet $13.76 right now that it shows the biggest drivers of departing *well-paying skilled labor* jobs are not wages, but taxes and regulations and labor cartel activity.
Trump, in his rally tick lists, would always include regulatory reform and taxes, so I assume he will be moving on those.
Meanwhile, let the tariff thing horrify the mainstream, and have some impact on freezing corporate decision-making. As long as the important agenda is addressed right away, and punitive tariffs aren't used as an excuse to not take *real* action.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (QDnY+)
47
A question - do the interests of wage earning American workers and free enterprise large scale corporate capitalism closely coicide?
And what are the interests that Trump spoke to during his campaign?
And what are the interests that Trump spoke to during his campaign?
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (d6TTt)
48
This could very well just be an opening for negotiation. Put the stick on the table first.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (0mRoj)
49
Can we get this ban rescinded? Please. What else is a government majority for?
---
Obamacare first.
Then this.
---
Obamacare first.
Then this.
Posted by: shibumi, a deplorable who now just wants to yell at stupid people at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (nFg65)
50
39,
Indeed.
I'm already thinking how much fun it will be, watching the left try to keep up with President Trump.
Indeed.
I'm already thinking how much fun it will be, watching the left try to keep up with President Trump.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (C9pBZ)
51
I like it.
Posted by: Deplorable votermom @vm on Gab at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (Om16U)
52
Levin is going to have a coronary over this tonight. He already played a Huey Long speech last week.
Posted by: rickl at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (zoehZ)
53
Mandated Squatty Potty.
Posted by: Larry King at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (IqV8l)
54
Gore being interviewed very briefly about meeting with Trump. Basically said interesting and that all he had to say. Maybe as someone on Fox Biz just said, DJ is just meeting with everyone who's sort of anyone. After all, they're coming to his office.
Cavuto: Gore for Sec of State..?
Gasparino: dude... (shakes head)
Cavuto: Gore for Sec of State..?
Gasparino: dude... (shakes head)
Posted by: Mallfly suPreme at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (2JQBv)
55
>>Might have something to do with the current corporate tax rate. What if
the tariff proposal is just bluster to get the corporate rate cut?
Exactly - 'art of the deal' by making your opening bid 3x more than what you really want. It will be interesting to see what Trump does in office. After watching him seemingly dodge defeat again and again during the campaign (with the hindsight of seeing that his actions were far more calculated than he was given credit for), will not assume that I can understand his individual moves.
the tariff proposal is just bluster to get the corporate rate cut?
Exactly - 'art of the deal' by making your opening bid 3x more than what you really want. It will be interesting to see what Trump does in office. After watching him seemingly dodge defeat again and again during the campaign (with the hindsight of seeing that his actions were far more calculated than he was given credit for), will not assume that I can understand his individual moves.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (NOIQH)
56
49
Can we get this ban rescinded? Please. What else is a government majority for?
---
Obamacare first.
Then this.
Posted by: shibumi, a deplorable who now just wants to yell at stupid people at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (nFg65)
Then 2-stroke engines.
Can we get this ban rescinded? Please. What else is a government majority for?
---
Obamacare first.
Then this.
Posted by: shibumi, a deplorable who now just wants to yell at stupid people at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (nFg65)
Then 2-stroke engines.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (2PHKP)
57
Not for anything but fuck the fucking companies that give us the finger and move their businesses out of the country, just so they can hire Pedro Armando Garcia Rodriguez Estrada Gutierrez for $3 an hour so they can save on labor costs at the expense of Americans losing their jobs.
It may not be an inherently conservative position and a emotive reaction to the climate now, but I'd like free traders to give me an honest idea of how we can be a wealth producer again when other companies either play monetary games or have cheap labor advantages. It doesn't seem like merely lowering taxes would be enough to stop this.
It may not be an inherently conservative position and a emotive reaction to the climate now, but I'd like free traders to give me an honest idea of how we can be a wealth producer again when other companies either play monetary games or have cheap labor advantages. It doesn't seem like merely lowering taxes would be enough to stop this.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (KLyOA)
58
He didn't wait for the State Supreme court to rule, he simply decided he had jurisdiction since it involved a federal election, Stein had standing because she was a federal candidate, Michigan's recount laws, rules and the fact that the Canvassing board had already certified the electors was immaterial and now pending an appeal, the State is forced to recount votes.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (be9L9)
Remember, the Electors can vote anyway, and Congress can't be stopped from counting the votes.
If judges interfere with that, they can be impeached and removed.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (be9L9)
Remember, the Electors can vote anyway, and Congress can't be stopped from counting the votes.
If judges interfere with that, they can be impeached and removed.
Posted by: The Political Hat at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (vBeA5)
59
Is 35% too high?
Posted by: Grump928(C) Native Texan and Alabama Alumn, twice as smug as you at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (0F67M)
60
52 Levin is going to have a coronary over this tonight. He already played a Huey Long speech last week.
Posted by: rickl at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (zoehZ)
I really don't know what to make of Levin, and I'm being serious.
Posted by: rickl at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (zoehZ)
I really don't know what to make of Levin, and I'm being serious.
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (d6TTt)
61
So why is ManBearPig at the Trump Tower?
Posted by: tu3031 at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (qJhUV)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (zc3Db)
63
Not crazy about this lug batting near the top of the order. Repeal Obamacare, now there's one that hits for power and average. Drill Here is a five-tool player. But are we gonna have Cut Taxes hitting behind Raise Tariffs?
Posted by: Slo-Pitch Whiffer at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (zke7T)
Posted by: John C. Calhoun at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (vBeA5)
65
Levin is going to have a coronary over this tonight. He already played a Huey Long speech last week.
Posted by: rickl at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (zoehZ)
=====
How will we be able to tell?
Posted by: rickl at December 05, 2016 01:02 PM (zoehZ)
=====
How will we be able to tell?
Posted by: Flyboy at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (/h4IO)
66
The good news is he's showing he's serious about his campaign promises. Well, that could be bad news depending on how you feel about those promises.
Posted by: Alex #11 at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (EUMt/)
67
62
Then 2-stroke engines.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (2PHKP)
Ethanol, first.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (zc3Db)
Fine, but 2-strokes right after that. Then lawn darts.
Then 2-stroke engines.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (2PHKP)
Ethanol, first.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (zc3Db)
Fine, but 2-strokes right after that. Then lawn darts.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (2PHKP)
Posted by: Bandersnatch, what is a proud Nitwit Lion at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (mgbwf)
69
So why is ManBearPig at the Trump Tower?
Posted by: tu3031 at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (qJhUV)
A toilet needed to be plunged.
Posted by: tu3031 at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (qJhUV)
A toilet needed to be plunged.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: Deplorable votermom @vm on Gab at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (Om16U)
71
Harrumph! Harrumph I say!
Posted by: Smoot-Hawley at December 05, 2016 01:04 PM (0mRoj)
Posted by: Blanco Basura #Free Cthulhu (with full price purchase of Azatoth or Nyarlathotep) at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (IcT7t)
73
54,
Yeah, I noticed that too - and you can bet it's calculated.
All "public" figures coming to Trump Tower...
Brilliant.
Yeah, I noticed that too - and you can bet it's calculated.
All "public" figures coming to Trump Tower...
Brilliant.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (C9pBZ)
74
We need a "Where's Hillary" app to track the ongoing shenanigans and foibles of the geriatric weeble as she drifts off to obscurity.
- - - - - -
"Hillary was spotted in a scuffle with city workers as she tried to access a closed bathroom on a beach in Hermosa on Saturday. The ex-president-elect had been snapping selfies with the homeless on the boardwalk when her Depends apparently sprung a leak. The nearest toilets had been closed for maintenance but Mrs. Clinton shouted and pushed her way thru only to find herself in a headlock with Javier Molina, a city worker. The small detachment of Secret Service appeared to act as if they weren't aware of the incident as they stood by a nearby hotdog stand."
- - - - - -
"Hillary was spotted in a scuffle with city workers as she tried to access a closed bathroom on a beach in Hermosa on Saturday. The ex-president-elect had been snapping selfies with the homeless on the boardwalk when her Depends apparently sprung a leak. The nearest toilets had been closed for maintenance but Mrs. Clinton shouted and pushed her way thru only to find herself in a headlock with Javier Molina, a city worker. The small detachment of Secret Service appeared to act as if they weren't aware of the incident as they stood by a nearby hotdog stand."
Posted by: Smitty27 at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (g9d8D)
75
50-Some morons are having difficulty as well.
Posted by: nip at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (L5nkE)
76
Wouldn't it be better to create a more favorable business climate instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
77
This'll be as effective as taxing foreign profits in the hopes that the companies won't just leave it abroad.
Posted by: It's a tax! at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (vBeA5)
78
@45 - IIRC, it was Republicans who banned the 100 watt lightbulb.
Posted by: bicentennialguy at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (vg8iE)
79
BTW not other companies, other countries, lol.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (KLyOA)
80
76 Wouldn't it be better to create a more favorable business climate instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
Why not both?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
Why not both?
Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (92kX2)
81
Meanwhile, let the tariff thing horrify the mainstream, and have some impact on freezing corporate decision-making.
*****************************
This isn't merely theoretical either, even Apple is considering moving their manufacturing to the U.S.
Trump has said repeatedly even if this means products and services may become more expensive, we'll also have more high paying jobs to offset it.
*****************************
This isn't merely theoretical either, even Apple is considering moving their manufacturing to the U.S.
Trump has said repeatedly even if this means products and services may become more expensive, we'll also have more high paying jobs to offset it.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (KLyOA)
82
78 @45 - IIRC, it was Republicans who banned the 100 watt lightbulb.
Posted by: bicentennialguy at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (vg8iE)
Fred Upton's crowning achievement.
Posted by: bicentennialguy at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (vg8iE)
Fred Upton's crowning achievement.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (0mRoj)
83
76 Wouldn't it be better to create a more favorable business climate
instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
Why not both?
---
hahahaha
You beat me to it!
instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
Why not both?
---
hahahaha
You beat me to it!
Posted by: shibumi, a deplorable who now just wants to yell at stupid people at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (nFg65)
84
Gotta scoot, but I'm sure I'll miss several comments here that take as an assumption that the US is one tiny de-regulatory step away from being like the worst Chinese factory town.
Which is absurd.
"Environmental", work "safety", and labor "fairness" interests would be much more than adequately protected in the US at levels of regulation far, far below what we have now.
Some people here (reflecting some people everywhere) actually seem to believe that the choises are 1925, or 2016 - in terms of regulation and all these good things (environmental protection, work safety, etc.).
Nope. You could vaporize large %s of the regulation in all these areas today, and not see a single iota of decrease in any of these "values".
Which is absurd.
"Environmental", work "safety", and labor "fairness" interests would be much more than adequately protected in the US at levels of regulation far, far below what we have now.
Some people here (reflecting some people everywhere) actually seem to believe that the choises are 1925, or 2016 - in terms of regulation and all these good things (environmental protection, work safety, etc.).
Nope. You could vaporize large %s of the regulation in all these areas today, and not see a single iota of decrease in any of these "values".
Posted by: rhomboid at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (QDnY+)
85
76
Wouldn't it be better to create a more favorable business climate
instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
He's doing that. He's simultaneously showing carrot and stick.
Lower business tax and don't make me pull out my yuge carrot and slap you about the ears with it - keep your US companies in the US.
Wouldn't it be better to create a more favorable business climate
instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
He's doing that. He's simultaneously showing carrot and stick.
Lower business tax and don't make me pull out my yuge carrot and slap you about the ears with it - keep your US companies in the US.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (2PHKP)
86
We haven't had a tough negotiator in Congress or in our international arena for so long, we don't recognize it when it comes along.
Tariffs are placed on goods coming into a country. If a company moves it's manufacturing to another country, produces goods, then imports it back here to sell at a lower cost than competitors because it is being manufactured in a country that has not just lower labor costs but (take China for example) the currency is manipulated, etc. the playing field as part of trade agreements between countries is not level and therefore need to be addressed. Tariffs are one of the few ways you can do that. We currently have tariffs individually applied to thousands of individual products produced abroad.
Other countries do this to us. They also ban products from being exported.
Despite Levin and other's screaming about free markets, etc. there truly is not a free market internationally. Every country does what it can to subvert trade agreements and put their own country at an advantage.(Unless its the USA and you have an elected leader who is actively trying to harm the country).
So this is part of the stick of Trump's plan to encourage US companies to not try to play the same international game as the Chinese, etc.
Yes, it will cause the cost of goods to go up. Sorry, that is the price to be paid for living in a country with clean water, air, labor laws, 40 hour works weeks and top shelf health care. And Trump will also relieve those same companies of the massive regulatory burden placed on them by the utopians and the outright USA haters currently lodged at the EPA, the Labor dept. , etc.
Tariffs are placed on goods coming into a country. If a company moves it's manufacturing to another country, produces goods, then imports it back here to sell at a lower cost than competitors because it is being manufactured in a country that has not just lower labor costs but (take China for example) the currency is manipulated, etc. the playing field as part of trade agreements between countries is not level and therefore need to be addressed. Tariffs are one of the few ways you can do that. We currently have tariffs individually applied to thousands of individual products produced abroad.
Other countries do this to us. They also ban products from being exported.
Despite Levin and other's screaming about free markets, etc. there truly is not a free market internationally. Every country does what it can to subvert trade agreements and put their own country at an advantage.(Unless its the USA and you have an elected leader who is actively trying to harm the country).
So this is part of the stick of Trump's plan to encourage US companies to not try to play the same international game as the Chinese, etc.
Yes, it will cause the cost of goods to go up. Sorry, that is the price to be paid for living in a country with clean water, air, labor laws, 40 hour works weeks and top shelf health care. And Trump will also relieve those same companies of the massive regulatory burden placed on them by the utopians and the outright USA haters currently lodged at the EPA, the Labor dept. , etc.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (be9L9)
87
57 Not for anything but fuck the fucking companies that give us the finger and move their businesses out of the country, just so they can hire Pedro Armando Garcia Rodriguez Estrada Gutierrez for $3 an hour so they can save on labor costs at the expense of Americans losing their jobs.
It may not be an inherently conservative position and a emotive reaction to the climate now, but I'd like free traders to give me an honest idea of how we can be a wealth producer again when other companies either play monetary games or have cheap labor advantages. It doesn't seem like merely lowering taxes would be enough to stop this.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (KLyOA)
Don't worry friend, you can be a wealth producer by signing up for this high-interest Capital One/Chase/Bank Of America credit card! It'll get you by when you have no job, and you can buy all the crap we make in Mexico so the institutional stockholders and CEO's can make bonus this year! What? You don't want to be a True Conservative?
It may not be an inherently conservative position and a emotive reaction to the climate now, but I'd like free traders to give me an honest idea of how we can be a wealth producer again when other companies either play monetary games or have cheap labor advantages. It doesn't seem like merely lowering taxes would be enough to stop this.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (KLyOA)
Don't worry friend, you can be a wealth producer by signing up for this high-interest Capital One/Chase/Bank Of America credit card! It'll get you by when you have no job, and you can buy all the crap we make in Mexico so the institutional stockholders and CEO's can make bonus this year! What? You don't want to be a True Conservative?
Posted by: Alex #11 at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (EUMt/)
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (MQZBa)
89
Stein had standing because she was a federal candidate, Michigan's
recount laws, rules and the fact that the Canvassing board had already
certified the electors was immaterial and now pending an appeal, the
State is forced to recount votes.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (be9L9)
The court had jurisdiction because it was a federal election and even that is dubious since the Constitution gives the States control of the election.
But she most definitely did not meet the rules for federal standing. She most show clear and definable "harm" and that "harm" is a direct result of the causative action. And it must be within the power of the court to correct the "harm.
She placed about 1% maybe less. There is no possible way that a recount will give her any chance in hell of winning. And further more she has not shown in any manner what the process is that caused he to be robbed of votes. The Obama appointed judge pulled that ruling out of his Democrat ass and violated every legal precept of standing.
And this crap has nothing to do with the civil war.
recount laws, rules and the fact that the Canvassing board had already
certified the electors was immaterial and now pending an appeal, the
State is forced to recount votes.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (be9L9)
The court had jurisdiction because it was a federal election and even that is dubious since the Constitution gives the States control of the election.
But she most definitely did not meet the rules for federal standing. She most show clear and definable "harm" and that "harm" is a direct result of the causative action. And it must be within the power of the court to correct the "harm.
She placed about 1% maybe less. There is no possible way that a recount will give her any chance in hell of winning. And further more she has not shown in any manner what the process is that caused he to be robbed of votes. The Obama appointed judge pulled that ruling out of his Democrat ass and violated every legal precept of standing.
And this crap has nothing to do with the civil war.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (mpXpK)
Posted by: Blanco Basura #Free Cthulhu (with full price purchase of Azatoth or Nyarlathotep) at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (IcT7t)
91
I really don't know what to make of Levin, and I'm being serious.
Posted by: tubal
Trump drove him over the ledge.
Sort of like what happened to Chris Matthews over George W. Bush.
I really don't know what to make of Levin, and I'm being serious.
Posted by: tubal
Trump drove him over the ledge.
Sort of like what happened to Chris Matthews over George W. Bush.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (IqV8l)
92
I suggest a glance or three of media from other parts of the world. I'm guessing that the "big man" approach is being seen...
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (C9pBZ)
93
Republicans gave us Obama phones
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:08 PM (vhbai)
94
Nope. You could vaporize large %s of the regulation in all these areas today, and not see a single iota of decrease in any of these "values".
Posted by: rhomboid at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (QDnY+)
True. It takes a lot to get to China's level of crap quality control.
Nope. You could vaporize large %s of the regulation in all these areas today, and not see a single iota of decrease in any of these "values".
Posted by: rhomboid at December 05, 2016 01:06 PM (QDnY+)
True. It takes a lot to get to China's level of crap quality control.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 05, 2016 01:08 PM (92kX2)
95
I was, shorn in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Bruce Sheepsteen at December 05, 2016 01:08 PM (QlyN5)
Posted by: Bouillabaisse at December 05, 2016 01:08 PM (MQZBa)
97
The Dick of Liberty must from time to time be exercised by slapping some faces with it.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:08 PM (0mRoj)
98
Might have something to do with the current corporate tax rate. What if
the tariff proposal is just bluster to get the corporate rate cut?
------------
Then fine. I'm not going to worry too much about Trump tweets - and certainly not accept them as serious policy proposals at this point.
Obviously, I'm not in favor of these types of tariffs, but for now it is just rhetoric. I'll wait to see what Trump and Ryan actually propose.
the tariff proposal is just bluster to get the corporate rate cut?
------------
Then fine. I'm not going to worry too much about Trump tweets - and certainly not accept them as serious policy proposals at this point.
Obviously, I'm not in favor of these types of tariffs, but for now it is just rhetoric. I'll wait to see what Trump and Ryan actually propose.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:08 PM (gmeXX)
99
Tariffs don't address the underlying problem of why the work is being shifted overseas to begin with.
And no, slave wages overseas is not an intractable problem; to think otherwise is neo-luddite thinking.
And no, slave wages overseas is not an intractable problem; to think otherwise is neo-luddite thinking.
Posted by: The Non-Luddite Hat at December 05, 2016 01:09 PM (vBeA5)
100
>>I really don't know what to make of Levin, and I'm being serious.
No mystery. He's an actual principled Conservative.
No mystery. He's an actual principled Conservative.
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:09 PM (MQZBa)
101
Yep, tariffs as stick to beat up/affect foreign and corporate decision-making in the short-term - probably good typical Trumpian negotiating strategy.
But as many are noting, the important part is the regulatory reform (one time the word "reform" actually can be used in its old, real sense of improvement).
Time will tell, but I'm guardedly pessimistic (to steal ace's last election call) - not due to Trump, but due to the immense inertia he'll have to overcome in these areas.
But as many are noting, the important part is the regulatory reform (one time the word "reform" actually can be used in its old, real sense of improvement).
Time will tell, but I'm guardedly pessimistic (to steal ace's last election call) - not due to Trump, but due to the immense inertia he'll have to overcome in these areas.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (QDnY+)
102
Isn't it just as possible that Trump called Al Gore to Trump towers, sat him down and said, "Look Al, we're having internet connectivity problems..."
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (2PHKP)
103
Why is it considered bad to leverage companies to stay in America? I don't understand this. We have been fucked by one sided trade deals to "spread the wealth" around the world.
So Global Marxism is good.
American Citizens and their interests are bad.
Unbelievable!
So Global Marxism is good.
American Citizens and their interests are bad.
Unbelievable!
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (F+dpa)
104
Wouldn't be all that surprising if after deregulation is done some Union assholes decide to have a big workplace accident.
Posted by: Bigbys Preening Fingers at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (ZiGe/)
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (MQZBa)
106
Tarriffs? What will Trump do next -- grow a handlebar mustache and put us back on the gold standard?
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (jBuUi)
107
but I'd like free traders to give me an honest idea of how we can be a wealth producer again when other companies either play monetary games or have cheap labor advantages
-------------
If other companies want to make it more expensive to buy our products and impoverish their owns citizens - why should I care? If they can make cheap products for us because they have cheap labor, awesome. You don't become a wealth producer by making your citizens pay more for cheap products. You become a wealth producer by producing high-end products that the world needs.
-------------
If other companies want to make it more expensive to buy our products and impoverish their owns citizens - why should I care? If they can make cheap products for us because they have cheap labor, awesome. You don't become a wealth producer by making your citizens pay more for cheap products. You become a wealth producer by producing high-end products that the world needs.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (gmeXX)
108
My little machine shop actually exports parts to China. The Chinese customer already pays a 20% tariff on our sales to them. Then they assemble the product and ship them back here for sale in the big box stores. Another tariff would drastically change the economics of this arrangement. I'm all in favor of bringing jobs back, but not if they're fucking unionized. Hopefully this product will land somewhere in the southeastern US, without the scum-sucking unions.
Posted by: Chris M at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (k3w9p)
109
101,
Such things can happen quickly. The tales of self deporting are multiplying...
Such things can happen quickly. The tales of self deporting are multiplying...
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (C9pBZ)
110
48 This could very well just be an opening for negotiation. Put the stick on the table first.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (0mRoj)
-------
Works for me...
And just to keep the MSM drama majors stirred up, have DJT take a call from General Mathis during the negotiations...
DJT: General, about that artillery, where exactly is it at this moment?
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:01 PM (0mRoj)
-------
Works for me...
And just to keep the MSM drama majors stirred up, have DJT take a call from General Mathis during the negotiations...
DJT: General, about that artillery, where exactly is it at this moment?
Posted by: The guy with the hair at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (zAEs4)
111
Unbelievable!
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (F+dpa)
With as much fervor as McCarthy, the left denounces Nationalism as a cancer on this global landmass.
Unbelievable!
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (F+dpa)
With as much fervor as McCarthy, the left denounces Nationalism as a cancer on this global landmass.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:12 PM (2PHKP)
112
106 Tarriffs? What will Trump do next -- grow a handlebar mustache and put us back on the gold standard?
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (jBuUi)
I'm getting a stovepipe hat.
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (jBuUi)
I'm getting a stovepipe hat.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:12 PM (0mRoj)
Posted by: Bigbys Preening Fingers at December 05, 2016 01:12 PM (ZiGe/)
114
Back in the 80s, my teachers talked about how multinational companies were Teh Eviiil because their interests do not coincide, and in fact often oppose, those of nation-states.
Granted these were probably proto-commies and they tied it into colonialism BUT they are not completely wrong.
Multi-national / Global companies do have interests that will sometimes directly clash with the interests of a nation.
Citizens of that nation who are in that company, even leading that company, have to decide where their ultimate loyalties lie.
Do they pledge allegiance to the company or to teh flag?
Chamber of Commerce types have made their choice.
Granted these were probably proto-commies and they tied it into colonialism BUT they are not completely wrong.
Multi-national / Global companies do have interests that will sometimes directly clash with the interests of a nation.
Citizens of that nation who are in that company, even leading that company, have to decide where their ultimate loyalties lie.
Do they pledge allegiance to the company or to teh flag?
Chamber of Commerce types have made their choice.
Posted by: Deplorable votermom @vm on Gab at December 05, 2016 01:12 PM (Om16U)
115
Wouldn't it be better to create a more favorable business climate instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
Does he have their attention now? Yes, I would say he does.
Is he giving his supporters what they want right away? Yes he is.
Was Scott Adams right about this? Yes he was.
Posted by: no good deed at December 05, 2016 01:05 PM (/O5Ax)
Does he have their attention now? Yes, I would say he does.
Is he giving his supporters what they want right away? Yes he is.
Was Scott Adams right about this? Yes he was.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 01:12 PM (hLRSq)
116
Carrier blinked and went for the golden ring. They got concessions, but they proved it was all about profits afterall. It had nothing to do with the product. I imagine a year or so down the road that something like a "Made in America, Again" slogan takes off. Trump's playing to the consumer here, not the boardroom.
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 01:13 PM (MlLtD)
Posted by: Evilpens at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (y3aQB)
118
I beat my Liberty Tree all the time. I don't get apples, though.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (S2VsH)
119
I'm getting a stovepipe hat."
Same here. To go with my monocle, my good man.
Now where's my walking stick?
Same here. To go with my monocle, my good man.
Now where's my walking stick?
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (C9pBZ)
120
Carrier blinked and went for the golden ring. They got concessions, but they proved it was all about profits afterall.
----------
Isn't that how it should be?
----------
Isn't that how it should be?
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (gmeXX)
121
UMMM WTF
Posted by: Evilpens at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (y3aQB)
Everyone since Sessions has been labeled WTF.
Posted by: Evilpens at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (y3aQB)
Everyone since Sessions has been labeled WTF.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (2PHKP)
122
@45 - IIRC, it was Republicans who banned the 100 watt lightbulb
It seemed like a bright idea at the time.
It seemed like a bright idea at the time.
Posted by: John Boehner at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (8ZskC)
123
So I guess we know now what he said to Carrier?
Posted by: TexasDan, Standard Deplorable Redneck at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (yL25O)
124
It may not be an inherently conservative position and a emotive reaction to the climate now, but I'd like free traders to give me an honest idea of how we can be a wealth producer again when other companies either play monetary games or have cheap labor advantages. It doesn't seem like merely lowering taxes would be enough to stop this.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (KLyOA)
Cheap labor advantages?
Which is why the industrial revolution never happened, amirite?
Concentrate on how we can be more competitive, not on how to put an expensive band-aid over it.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:03 PM (KLyOA)
Cheap labor advantages?
Which is why the industrial revolution never happened, amirite?
Concentrate on how we can be more competitive, not on how to put an expensive band-aid over it.
Posted by: The Non-Luddite Hat at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (vBeA5)
125
Out here in California, every time I see a TV screen in recent weeks theres a commercial for "Covered California" -- our local manifestation of ObamaCare -- and of course they have a black actor (to get the attention of the minority demographic) practically begging the audience to sign up: "C'mon people what's the matter with you? It's free health care! Free, I tell you!" But even in that ad, which was undoubtedly filmed before the election, there is desperation in the actor's eyes. He's selling tickets to a sinking ship.
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (jBuUi)
126
As I see the comments unfolding here, it is coming down to government intervention regarding commerce, or government hands off of private enterprise.
Is this too simple an interpretation of the competing views vis a vis Trump?
Is this too simple an interpretation of the competing views vis a vis Trump?
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (d6TTt)
127
Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:15 PM (kff5f)
129
Hmmm ... lemme' see ...
... after banks and auto companies demanding I pay to keep them solvent ...
... and more companies lobbying companies to open their borders so that my labor can command less money ...
... just how hard do I feel like defending their right to move overseas without penalty ?
*taps chin*
... after banks and auto companies demanding I pay to keep them solvent ...
... and more companies lobbying companies to open their borders so that my labor can command less money ...
... just how hard do I feel like defending their right to move overseas without penalty ?
*taps chin*
Posted by: ScoggDog at December 05, 2016 01:15 PM (OQOhk)
130
123 So I guess we know now what he said to Carrier?
Posted by: TexasDan, Standard Deplorable Redneck at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (yL25O)
"We are all infected."
Posted by: TexasDan, Standard Deplorable Redneck at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (yL25O)
"We are all infected."
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:15 PM (0mRoj)
131
As a globalist who is moderating I'm good with some economic nationalism right now - the human cost is just too high.
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:15 PM (vhbai)
132
I am experiencing some major schadenfreude over the number of Prog-tards I'm seeing with a sudden Strange New Respect for Federalism and the 10th Amendment.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:15 PM (kff5f)
133
111
Unbelievable!
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (F+dpa)
With as much fervor as McCarthy, the left denounces Nationalism as a cancer on this global landmass.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:12 PM (2PH
Agreed with the GOP included.
Unbelievable!
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:10 PM (F+dpa)
With as much fervor as McCarthy, the left denounces Nationalism as a cancer on this global landmass.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:12 PM (2PH
Agreed with the GOP included.
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:16 PM (F+dpa)
134
I take that back. Mattis and Price are good picks.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:16 PM (2PHKP)
135
I'm wondering if the Carson appointment was more trolling or more flack catching.
Posted by: Bigbys Preening Fingers at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (ZiGe/)
136
Working class Americans should just die instead of trying to get their jobs back.
Posted by: Kevin D. Williamson at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (0mRoj)
137
And no, slave wages overseas is not an intractable problem; to think otherwise is neo-luddite thinking.
The issue is multi pronged: It's a combination of cheap(er*) foreign labor, and far more expensive domestic labor. This is all complicated by unions, and over regulation here in the US. OSAH, EPA, regs at the Federal level, and unemployment insurance, DNR at the state level, and local governing bodies all add to the hidden cost of production here.
It seems like ALL of that, as well as corporate taxes needs to be addressed.
* I have heard companies who have moved production back from Mexico, because labor unions are very strong there.
The issue is multi pronged: It's a combination of cheap(er*) foreign labor, and far more expensive domestic labor. This is all complicated by unions, and over regulation here in the US. OSAH, EPA, regs at the Federal level, and unemployment insurance, DNR at the state level, and local governing bodies all add to the hidden cost of production here.
It seems like ALL of that, as well as corporate taxes needs to be addressed.
* I have heard companies who have moved production back from Mexico, because labor unions are very strong there.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (ty7RM)
138
"You become a wealth producer by producing high-end products that the world needs."
It's a little more complicated than that. Microeconomics can give you answers that only work in the lab.
Right now, China needs us more than we need them. China keeps its wages low, which means that most of its people have no consuming buying power. So China must export or die. The US has become the buying consumer of last resort, which we subsidize with our huge deficits.
It's a little more complicated than that. Microeconomics can give you answers that only work in the lab.
Right now, China needs us more than we need them. China keeps its wages low, which means that most of its people have no consuming buying power. So China must export or die. The US has become the buying consumer of last resort, which we subsidize with our huge deficits.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (SIY7D)
139
I believe Obama's first tax hike that impacted those making below $250k was the 30% tariff he put on truck tires in late August 2009. It was a total sop to the AFL-CIO and it raised tire prices for tires for trucks (including 1/2 ton pick-ups) by the same 30% no matter where they came from.
Class E BF Goodrich KO's went from $185 to $240 overnight for my F150.
Class E BF Goodrich KO's went from $185 to $240 overnight for my F150.
Posted by: DanMan at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (RusNE)
140
He's an actual principled Conservative.
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:09 PM
Yes, one of those "principles" being "Corporate profits are sacred above all other considerations".
I'm over being a "principled conservative".
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:09 PM
Yes, one of those "principles" being "Corporate profits are sacred above all other considerations".
I'm over being a "principled conservative".
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (S2VsH)
141
I predict a wave of unity overwhelming the country as Remocrats and Depublicans join forces to oppose every Trump initiative.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, The U.S. Is Red ! at December 05, 2016 01:18 PM (02Q1d)
142
Offset tariff increases with cutting corporate taxes.
Somehow, we ran this Republic for about the first 150 years exclusively on import tariffs.
Now about 99% of taxes collected are income taxes, tariffs are a rounding error. Works great for Chinese companies.
I would at least like to see companies pay something to access our markets. What does Apple pay to import a $800 iphone? Is it even a nickel?
Somehow, we ran this Republic for about the first 150 years exclusively on import tariffs.
Now about 99% of taxes collected are income taxes, tariffs are a rounding error. Works great for Chinese companies.
I would at least like to see companies pay something to access our markets. What does Apple pay to import a $800 iphone? Is it even a nickel?
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:18 PM (LrdVd)
143
I look at Carrier as a stopgap until incentives can be passed by Congressional.
Posted by: mnw at December 05, 2016 01:18 PM (lAVPT)
144
Ahhhh...
**Manspreads**
Posted by: garrett
--------------
Okay, clearly, this is Isaac Henrique Sequeira socking one of our regulars.
**Manspreads**
Posted by: garrett
--------------
Okay, clearly, this is Isaac Henrique Sequeira socking one of our regulars.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 05, 2016 01:18 PM (ZO497)
Posted by: Evilpens at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (y3aQB)
146
Looks like Ben Carson is being nominated to lead Housing and Urban Development?
On one hand, I can't see how Carson is qualified, and he's already stated how he doesn't think he's ready to lead a cabinet position.
On the other hand, libs are already blowing a gasket about the nomination.
So I'm gonna call this one a wash.
On one hand, I can't see how Carson is qualified, and he's already stated how he doesn't think he's ready to lead a cabinet position.
On the other hand, libs are already blowing a gasket about the nomination.
So I'm gonna call this one a wash.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (KUaJL)
147
""You become a wealth producer by producing high-end products that the world needs."
Germany needs the EU to do this. Without the Euro, the Deutsche Mark would appreciate and make it harder to sell into the rest of Europe and to the World. Northern Italy -- which is good at making things -- suffers because of this.
Germany needs the EU to do this. Without the Euro, the Deutsche Mark would appreciate and make it harder to sell into the rest of Europe and to the World. Northern Italy -- which is good at making things -- suffers because of this.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (SIY7D)
148
Right now, China needs us more than we need them. China keeps its wages low, which means that most of its people have no consuming buying power. So China must export or die. The US has become the buying consumer of last resort, which we subsidize with our huge deficits.
-------------
Yes, it is more complicated. But not that much more complicated. China is going to get a lot older before it gets rich. Countries don't get wealthy by producing cheap products cheaply. I mean you can get wealthier than you were, which they are. But you aren't going to compete with the US.
-------------
Yes, it is more complicated. But not that much more complicated. China is going to get a lot older before it gets rich. Countries don't get wealthy by producing cheap products cheaply. I mean you can get wealthier than you were, which they are. But you aren't going to compete with the US.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (gmeXX)
149
135 I'm wondering if the Carson appointment was more trolling or more flack catching.
Posted by: Bigbys Preening Fingers at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (ZiGe/)
I think Carson wanted it - he gets to do some reform without wrangling with legislators like repeaing OCare would entail.
Posted by: Bigbys Preening Fingers at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (ZiGe/)
I think Carson wanted it - he gets to do some reform without wrangling with legislators like repeaing OCare would entail.
Posted by: Deplorable votermom @vm on Gab at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (Om16U)
150
86
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (be9L9)
Excellent comment. There isn't a level playing field when American businesses are burdened with environmental and worker safety regulations, minimum wage laws, etc, while countries like China have none of that.
Free trade and open borders the way we've been doing it will lead to a "race to the bottom". Which might just be what the global elites want.
We can reduce the regulatory burden without going back to the 19th century, and use tariffs to even out prices for goods produced domestically vs. ones produced by foreign slave labor. It would even give countries like China an incentive to improve conditions for their own workers, in order to get the tariffs lowered.
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 01:07 PM (be9L9)
Excellent comment. There isn't a level playing field when American businesses are burdened with environmental and worker safety regulations, minimum wage laws, etc, while countries like China have none of that.
Free trade and open borders the way we've been doing it will lead to a "race to the bottom". Which might just be what the global elites want.
We can reduce the regulatory burden without going back to the 19th century, and use tariffs to even out prices for goods produced domestically vs. ones produced by foreign slave labor. It would even give countries like China an incentive to improve conditions for their own workers, in order to get the tariffs lowered.
Posted by: rickl at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (zoehZ)
151
Yeah they'd never nuke their primary market - that's the good part about this new world
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (vhbai)
152
I was, horn in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Bruce Protuberance on a Cow's Head at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (QlyN5)
153
Carrots not sticks. (Neither carrots nor sticks in chili.)
Posted by: Donna and V
------------
In the camps, you will relish sticks in the chili.
Posted by: Donna and V
------------
In the camps, you will relish sticks in the chili.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (ZO497)
154
If Obama has proven anything, it's that you don't have to know what you're doing to run the government.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (2PHKP)
155
I watched a show on some talk channel years ago. Even before Obama. They had several big buisness types on the show and they were talking about competitiveness and moving work out of the country.
The consensus was that a lot of companies were moving work out of the country but not because of wages. Their view was that wages were not an issue as ling as work place efficiency made up for it, and most of the time it did.
The real problem was the US's over-regulated buisness environment. The tens of thousands of regulations that companies had to deal with every day was killing them.
And I can tell you from being in one of the most regulated businesses in the US, most of those regulations are totally worthless.
The consensus was that a lot of companies were moving work out of the country but not because of wages. Their view was that wages were not an issue as ling as work place efficiency made up for it, and most of the time it did.
The real problem was the US's over-regulated buisness environment. The tens of thousands of regulations that companies had to deal with every day was killing them.
And I can tell you from being in one of the most regulated businesses in the US, most of those regulations are totally worthless.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (mpXpK)
156
>>Yes, one of those "principles" being "Corporate profits are sacred above all other considerations".
Apparently, you don't listen to Levin.
Apparently, you don't listen to Levin.
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (MQZBa)
157
You don't become a wealth producer by making your citizens pay more for cheap products
*********************
I'm just spitballing here, but I assume producing wealth comes not from consumer spending, but from exporting more than we import, from creating high paying jobs from manufacturing that in turn increases our tax revenue, keeping large businesses here so we benefit from the taxes we collect from them as well (since it's better to get 15% of corporate taxes from a corporation than to get zippo since they're no longer there), and finally reducing regulations and taxes overall so smaller businesses expand and grow.
*********************
I'm just spitballing here, but I assume producing wealth comes not from consumer spending, but from exporting more than we import, from creating high paying jobs from manufacturing that in turn increases our tax revenue, keeping large businesses here so we benefit from the taxes we collect from them as well (since it's better to get 15% of corporate taxes from a corporation than to get zippo since they're no longer there), and finally reducing regulations and taxes overall so smaller businesses expand and grow.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (KLyOA)
158
" Countries don't get wealthy by producing cheap products cheaply."
But oligarchs and their cronies can.
But oligarchs and their cronies can.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (SIY7D)
159
Is this too simple an interpretation of the competing views vis a vis Trump?
Yes. Because it misses the Populism angle.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Trump is Conservative or cares about Conservatism. He's a populist, pure and simple.
He embraced Conservative positions that were popular and either made no comment or even actively opposed Conservative positions (transgender bathrooms, anyone?) which were unpopular. He will govern as a populist.
From a populist standpoint, the Carrier intervention and the Exit Tax make a lot of sense, regardless of how good or bad they may be in a larger economic sense.
Don't be surprised if, long about Christmas time, Trump is very visible with people whose "jobs he saved."
Yes. Because it misses the Populism angle.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Trump is Conservative or cares about Conservatism. He's a populist, pure and simple.
He embraced Conservative positions that were popular and either made no comment or even actively opposed Conservative positions (transgender bathrooms, anyone?) which were unpopular. He will govern as a populist.
From a populist standpoint, the Carrier intervention and the Exit Tax make a lot of sense, regardless of how good or bad they may be in a larger economic sense.
Don't be surprised if, long about Christmas time, Trump is very visible with people whose "jobs he saved."
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (kff5f)
160
Hmmm ... lemme' see ...
... after banks and auto companies demanding I pay to keep them solvent ...
... and more companies lobbying companies to open their borders so that my labor can command less money ...
... just how hard do I feel like defending their right to move overseas without penalty ?
*taps chin*
Posted by: ScoggDog
Somewhere between Fuck them & WAR?
... after banks and auto companies demanding I pay to keep them solvent ...
... and more companies lobbying companies to open their borders so that my labor can command less money ...
... just how hard do I feel like defending their right to move overseas without penalty ?
*taps chin*
Posted by: ScoggDog
Somewhere between Fuck them & WAR?
Posted by: rickb223 at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (v0qEa)
161
112 106 Tarriffs? What will Trump do next -- grow a handlebar mustache and put us back on the gold standard?
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (jBuUi)
I'm getting a stovepipe hat.
---
Some goggles to wear when I drive my motorcar -- those would be the bees knees! And those suffragettes are a deuced nuisance!
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (jBuUi)
I'm getting a stovepipe hat.
---
Some goggles to wear when I drive my motorcar -- those would be the bees knees! And those suffragettes are a deuced nuisance!
Posted by: Slo-Pitch Whiffer at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (zke7T)
162
Good. What this country needs are higher prices on imported goods, so good Americans can get their jobs back.
It also means that everything in Walmart will cost twice as much. A small sacrifice for low income families to pay so Americans can get back to work making can openers and vegetable peelers.
Good. What this country needs are higher prices on imported goods, so good Americans can get their jobs back.
It also means that everything in Walmart will cost twice as much. A small sacrifice for low income families to pay so Americans can get back to work making can openers and vegetable peelers.
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (LMMAT)
163
Born, in the U.S.A. I was
Born, in the U.S.A.
I voted for Hill-a-ray, I was
Born, in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Caitlyn Springsteen at December 05, 2016 12:59 PM (QlyN5)
...............
Honk, Heehaaaaw, Honk!!!
Born, in the U.S.A.
I voted for Hill-a-ray, I was
Born, in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Caitlyn Springsteen at December 05, 2016 12:59 PM (QlyN5)
...............
Honk, Heehaaaaw, Honk!!!
Posted by: Sick Braying Mule at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (HgMAr)
Posted by: Evilpens at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (y3aQB)
Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (2PHKP)
166
On one hand, I can't see how Carson is qualified, and he's already stated how he doesn't think he's ready to lead a cabinet position.
On the other hand, libs are already blowing a gasket about the nomination.
So I'm gonna call this one a wash.
Posted by: joe,
I like Ben Carson, and if nothing else, just having an intelligent, black conservative talking about poverty would be worth the price of admission.
But he probably has no business actually "running" anything, hopefully he will be surrounded by capable people.
Really, the whole agency should be shut down.
On the other hand, libs are already blowing a gasket about the nomination.
So I'm gonna call this one a wash.
Posted by: joe,
I like Ben Carson, and if nothing else, just having an intelligent, black conservative talking about poverty would be worth the price of admission.
But he probably has no business actually "running" anything, hopefully he will be surrounded by capable people.
Really, the whole agency should be shut down.
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (LrdVd)
167
Wouldn't it be better to create a more favorable business climate instead of whipping out your dick and smacking people in face with it?
If Americans can't whip out their dicks and smack people in the face with them, then the terrorists have already won.
If Americans can't whip out their dicks and smack people in the face with them, then the terrorists have already won.
Posted by: President-Elect Honey Badger at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (XkVXQ)
168
The real problem was the US's over-regulated buisness environment. The tens of thousands of regulations that companies had to deal with every day was killing them.
--
Yeah, Trump said a few days ago that that's what he's hearing from Carrier and other execs. It's not the taxes, its the regs.
--
Yeah, Trump said a few days ago that that's what he's hearing from Carrier and other execs. It's not the taxes, its the regs.
Posted by: Deplorable votermom @vm on Gab at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (Om16U)
169
What does Apple pay to import a $800 iphone? Is it even a nickel?
Posted by: Maritime
Yes, it's only a nickel, but the nickel is made out of rubidium glass and platinum-titanium amalgam, and can monitor your prostate secretions and predict fluctuations in the commodities market.
Posted by: Maritime
Yes, it's only a nickel, but the nickel is made out of rubidium glass and platinum-titanium amalgam, and can monitor your prostate secretions and predict fluctuations in the commodities market.
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (jBuUi)
170
Here's the thing. I am against this proposal intellectually.
Emotionally? Hell. Yeah.
There is a human cost to free trade that matters. Take all the hand waving oh we'll just give you job training. For what jobs? The jobs we had just left. There aren't other jobs here. No amount of training will get past the point that the jobs for which you are being trained do not exist in the area where you are paying your mortgage.
No, people are not owed to have have good jobs in the area in which they want to live, of course not. But telling someone that hey you have to give up your entire history in an area and move somewhere else and start all over again to chase a job that may turn around and up and vanish again to people who are paid 1/20th of what you are paid and have to comply with 0% of the regulations you do has a very real cost. Human beings are not mere economic units. I am weary of people pretending otherwise.
Emotionally? Hell. Yeah.
There is a human cost to free trade that matters. Take all the hand waving oh we'll just give you job training. For what jobs? The jobs we had just left. There aren't other jobs here. No amount of training will get past the point that the jobs for which you are being trained do not exist in the area where you are paying your mortgage.
No, people are not owed to have have good jobs in the area in which they want to live, of course not. But telling someone that hey you have to give up your entire history in an area and move somewhere else and start all over again to chase a job that may turn around and up and vanish again to people who are paid 1/20th of what you are paid and have to comply with 0% of the regulations you do has a very real cost. Human beings are not mere economic units. I am weary of people pretending otherwise.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (mf5HN)
171
Isn't that how it should be?
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (gmeXX)
__________________________
Yes, when you're playing in an even game.
We are not.
Wasn't there a story that Mexico is up in arms after all the promises they made to Carrier went up in a populist smoke cloud?
I, like most consumers, don't mind paying a fair price for a quality product. But the where, how, and by whom matters too.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (gmeXX)
__________________________
Yes, when you're playing in an even game.
We are not.
Wasn't there a story that Mexico is up in arms after all the promises they made to Carrier went up in a populist smoke cloud?
I, like most consumers, don't mind paying a fair price for a quality product. But the where, how, and by whom matters too.
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (MlLtD)
172
Kate Steinle's family asked to drop lawsuit
Maggots infest VA patient
Professors encourage OSU terrorist with Victim Studies
Lois Lerner, Day 10Million
Hysterical Taiwan Panty-wadding
They all seem like different stories. But they have one root:
They are all what happens when government is run for the benefit of politicians, bureaucrats, bosses and donors--and not for the American people.
The hard job ahead is not policy, but rooting out this rot.
Maggots infest VA patient
Professors encourage OSU terrorist with Victim Studies
Lois Lerner, Day 10Million
Hysterical Taiwan Panty-wadding
They all seem like different stories. But they have one root:
They are all what happens when government is run for the benefit of politicians, bureaucrats, bosses and donors--and not for the American people.
The hard job ahead is not policy, but rooting out this rot.
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (Ndje9)
173
Good. What this country needs are higher prices on imported goods, so good Americans can get their jobs back.
----------
Hey it worked in the 30's.
----------
Hey it worked in the 30's.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:22 PM (gmeXX)
174
If Obama has proven anything, it's that you don't have to know what you're doing to run ruin the government.
Posted by: AlaBAMA
------------
Edited, for perspective.
Posted by: AlaBAMA
------------
Edited, for perspective.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 05, 2016 01:22 PM (ZO497)
175
I have heard companies who have moved production back from Mexico, because labor unions are very strong there.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (ty7RM)
I'd be willing to bet it's driven more by the cost of rework/scrap
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (ty7RM)
I'd be willing to bet it's driven more by the cost of rework/scrap
Posted by: Barky McFuckstick's Rogue Telepromter at December 05, 2016 01:22 PM (i0ykY)
176
I'm just spitballing here, but I assume producing wealth comes not from consumer spending, but from exporting more than we import, from creating high paying jobs from manufacturing that in turn increases our tax revenue, keeping large businesses here so we benefit from the taxes we collect from them as well (since it's better to get 15% of corporate taxes from a corporation than to get zippo since they're no longer there), and finally reducing regulations and taxes overall so smaller businesses expand and grow.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (KLyOA)
Wealth is not a zero sum game.
Posted by: John Nada - Formerly #NeverHillary at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (KLyOA)
Wealth is not a zero sum game.
Posted by: The Zero-Sum Hat at December 05, 2016 01:23 PM (vBeA5)
177
Apparently, you don't listen to Levin.
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM
Truthfully, I don't. I know he contributes to NRO so I made assumptions.
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM
Truthfully, I don't. I know he contributes to NRO so I made assumptions.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 01:23 PM (S2VsH)
178
100 watt incandescent bulbs as an example.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (tf9Ne)
Can we get this ban rescinded? Please. What else is a government majority for? Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (92kX2)
=====
Save the Easy Bake Ovens!
100 watt incandescent bulbs as an example.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (tf9Ne)
Can we get this ban rescinded? Please. What else is a government majority for? Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 05, 2016 01:00 PM (92kX2)
=====
Save the Easy Bake Ovens!
Posted by: mustbequantum at December 05, 2016 01:23 PM (MIKMs)
179
"I believe Obama's first tax hike that impacted those making below $250k was the 30% tariff he put on truck tires in late August 2009. ... Class E BF Goodrich KO's went from $185 to $240 overnight for my F150."
Kind of like the tax in ObamaCare on tanning salons. Can you say disparate impact?
Bet Obama and Jarrett got a chuckle out of these.
Kind of like the tax in ObamaCare on tanning salons. Can you say disparate impact?
Bet Obama and Jarrett got a chuckle out of these.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:23 PM (SIY7D)
180
Not a fan of this, but I'll note that it puts unions in a HUGE bind.
Ostensibly this is the kind of shit they like, and it's why their rank and file liked Sanders.
But they like their cozy relationship with democrats even more (and dems can't vote for this is a Republican proposed it.)
Troublesome.
Ostensibly this is the kind of shit they like, and it's why their rank and file liked Sanders.
But they like their cozy relationship with democrats even more (and dems can't vote for this is a Republican proposed it.)
Troublesome.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 01:23 PM (dzmBR)
181
Yeah I think we're in for a boom - watch the interviews of the Econ team - it's all gonna happen quite fast. I don't think ceos want to close plants - Trump's appeals to their patriotism with real incentives to cut back off-shoring are going to help
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:24 PM (vhbai)
182
I was, Dhorn in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Bruce Bernadine at December 05, 2016 01:24 PM (QlyN5)
183
Yes, when you're playing in an even game.
We are not.
Wasn't there a story that Mexico is up in arms after all the promises they made to Carrier went up in a populist smoke cloud?
I, like most consumers, don't mind paying a fair price for a quality product. But the where, how, and by whom matters too.
------------
This isn't a game. This is real life. Countries have different offerings - which ultimately is good. Something about laboratories and such.
Nothing is preventing you from buying quality products at a fair price. Unless you think a fair price is the same as paying for cheap products.
There is an American made product for just about any product in the world most consumers would want to buy. And it is usually of high quality.
We are not.
Wasn't there a story that Mexico is up in arms after all the promises they made to Carrier went up in a populist smoke cloud?
I, like most consumers, don't mind paying a fair price for a quality product. But the where, how, and by whom matters too.
------------
This isn't a game. This is real life. Countries have different offerings - which ultimately is good. Something about laboratories and such.
Nothing is preventing you from buying quality products at a fair price. Unless you think a fair price is the same as paying for cheap products.
There is an American made product for just about any product in the world most consumers would want to buy. And it is usually of high quality.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:24 PM (gmeXX)
184
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:20 PM (kff5f)
Thanks, Allen. Makes a lot of sense, and I never thought of Trump as Conservative. ( If he was, he'd not been elected).
More of an old school Northeast Liberal, I guess.
Needed a reminder of the Populist angle.
Thanks, Allen. Makes a lot of sense, and I never thought of Trump as Conservative. ( If he was, he'd not been elected).
More of an old school Northeast Liberal, I guess.
Needed a reminder of the Populist angle.
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:24 PM (d6TTt)
185
Kate Steinle's family asked to drop lawsuit
Maggots infest VA patient
Professors encourage OSU terrorist with Victim Studies
Lois Lerner, Day 10Million
Hysterical Taiwan Panty-wadding
-----
Throw in Bergdahl and ghey-norming (among many other things) and you have the military being used for political purposes.
Maggots infest VA patient
Professors encourage OSU terrorist with Victim Studies
Lois Lerner, Day 10Million
Hysterical Taiwan Panty-wadding
-----
Throw in Bergdahl and ghey-norming (among many other things) and you have the military being used for political purposes.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 05, 2016 01:24 PM (ZO497)
186
This is the 21st century. We're supposed to be sitting around writing iPhone apps.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 05, 2016 01:25 PM (IqV8l)
187
Libs all atwitter re: Carson's qualifications for HUD, yet not a peep on how Obama went from communist organizer to president. "Qualifications" officially went out the window back in '09. Don't play along with the media.
Posted by: Smitty27 at December 05, 2016 01:25 PM (g9d8D)
188
As I see the comments unfolding here, it is coming down to government intervention regarding commerce, or government hands off of private enterprise.
Is this too simple an interpretation of the competing views vis a vis Trump?
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (d6TTt)
Too simple. Tariffs are a legitimate tool of the federal government and are not evil in any way, shape, or form. The idea that has grown over the past few decades that all tariffs are bad is totally out of whack and it's about time that it be beaten down in the public forum.
Also, "private enterprise", per America, doesn't extend offshore. The Constitution's power stops at our borders.
Is this too simple an interpretation of the competing views vis a vis Trump?
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:14 PM (d6TTt)
Too simple. Tariffs are a legitimate tool of the federal government and are not evil in any way, shape, or form. The idea that has grown over the past few decades that all tariffs are bad is totally out of whack and it's about time that it be beaten down in the public forum.
Also, "private enterprise", per America, doesn't extend offshore. The Constitution's power stops at our borders.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:25 PM (zc3Db)
189
But he probably has no business actually "running" anything, hopefully he will be surrounded by capable people.
--
He was a director at John Hopkins Hospital. You do a some cutthroat politicking and administering in a position like that.
He will certainly be an improvement over the current HUD director
--
He was a director at John Hopkins Hospital. You do a some cutthroat politicking and administering in a position like that.
He will certainly be an improvement over the current HUD director
Posted by: Deplorable votermom @vm on Gab at December 05, 2016 01:25 PM (Om16U)
190
I would point out the the British Empire did fairly well under Mercantilism, right up to the point where they started playing games with the currency and started cutting special deals for friends.
What we have is cronyism without the mercantilism, we only have special deals for dear friends. We also have the currency games too.
I am beginning to believe Milton Friedman and Jesus Huerta de Soto are right about the issues on currency and private markets for currency and banking. (and you can all make fun of my silver dimes for all you want)
It would be possible to do that 35% penalty if you made it 35% across the board, with a discount for earnings made in the US.
That would actually be a relief on tax regulations at this point.
What we have is cronyism without the mercantilism, we only have special deals for dear friends. We also have the currency games too.
I am beginning to believe Milton Friedman and Jesus Huerta de Soto are right about the issues on currency and private markets for currency and banking. (and you can all make fun of my silver dimes for all you want)
It would be possible to do that 35% penalty if you made it 35% across the board, with a discount for earnings made in the US.
That would actually be a relief on tax regulations at this point.
Posted by: Kindltot at December 05, 2016 01:26 PM (yLUuz)
191
I was HONK HEEHAW in the USA
Posted by: Sick Braying Mule at December 05, 2016 01:26 PM (HgMAr)
192
"If Americans can't whip out their dicks and smack people in the face with them, then the terrorists have already won.
Posted by: President-Elect Honey Badger"
This !
Posted by: President-Elect Honey Badger"
This !
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, The U.S. Is Red ! at December 05, 2016 01:26 PM (02Q1d)
193
Yeah I think we're in for a boom
...and 21% inflation when all those easy fed dollars have somewhere else to go besides the stock market.
...and 21% inflation when all those easy fed dollars have somewhere else to go besides the stock market.
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:26 PM (LMMAT)
194
>>
If Obama has proven anything, it's that you don't have to know what you're doing to ruin the government
I know, right?
If Obama has proven anything, it's that you don't have to know what you're doing to ruin the government
I know, right?
Posted by: Tommy Veitor, Marie Harf, David Rhodes, Jon Favreau at December 05, 2016 01:26 PM (NOIQH)
195
Where's Bo?
Posted by: Zombie Seamus Romney at December 05, 2016 01:26 PM (nNX9H)
196
OT: Guardians 2 teaser trailer has hit! (Possibly old news but I just saw it.)
Basically going to be one of the greatest movies of all time.
Basically going to be one of the greatest movies of all time.
Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at December 05, 2016 01:26 PM (WuRdh)
197
A small sacrifice for low income families to pay so Americans can get back to work making can openers and vegetable peelers.
All no income families which will become low income families (or, mid-to-low income families which now will *not* become no income families) certainly think so.
All no income families which will become low income families (or, mid-to-low income families which now will *not* become no income families) certainly think so.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:27 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: McCool at December 05, 2016 01:27 PM (TQxRy)
Posted by: Hillary!s feet at December 05, 2016 01:27 PM (HgMAr)
200
During the Reconstruction after the Civil War, former slave-owners moaned en masse, "We should have picked our own damn cotton."
We'll be moaning a similar refrain in 100 years when China annexes the US as Eastern Guangdong Province: "We should have made our own damn plastic junk."
We'll be moaning a similar refrain in 100 years when China annexes the US as Eastern Guangdong Province: "We should have made our own damn plastic junk."
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:28 PM (jBuUi)
201
But here's the problem with the "TruCon" position on trade, no matter how many taxes and regulations we realistically cut, it's never going to be as cheap as China.
Of course these things need to happen, but Trump's position seems to me to be a good compromise of cutting taxes for domestic companies but raising tariffs for imports.
Might also want to remember the "Paul Ryan / Kock Bros" position on trade would not have won Michigan, PA, WI, OH for Trump.
Even if conservatives fantasize about free trade and how it works in a textbook, it's a position that means Democrats in the White House forever.
Of course these things need to happen, but Trump's position seems to me to be a good compromise of cutting taxes for domestic companies but raising tariffs for imports.
Might also want to remember the "Paul Ryan / Kock Bros" position on trade would not have won Michigan, PA, WI, OH for Trump.
Even if conservatives fantasize about free trade and how it works in a textbook, it's a position that means Democrats in the White House forever.
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:28 PM (LrdVd)
202
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM
Too much shit that's disposable now was never meant to be. Yeah, I can a 50" TV at Walmart for only $500! And one next year when it breaks. And one next year when it breaks. And one...
Let me pay $2000 for it once, and let it last 7-10 years. That's how shit is supposed to work. It's how it can work again. You save for big purchases. Big purchases last.
Don't tell me, "It can never be that way again. That ship has sailed." The same assholes who tell me that INSISTED that Trump would never be President of the United States.
Too much shit that's disposable now was never meant to be. Yeah, I can a 50" TV at Walmart for only $500! And one next year when it breaks. And one next year when it breaks. And one...
Let me pay $2000 for it once, and let it last 7-10 years. That's how shit is supposed to work. It's how it can work again. You save for big purchases. Big purchases last.
Don't tell me, "It can never be that way again. That ship has sailed." The same assholes who tell me that INSISTED that Trump would never be President of the United States.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 01:28 PM (S2VsH)
203
There is a human cost to free trade that matters.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (mf5HN)
The first thing you have to do is stop calling it "free trade". It isn't about trade. It's solely about importation into the US market.
What we are really talking about, with this globalist shit, is free importation into the US market from every shithole in the world.
Well, the US market is the gem of the world. People and nations would pay through the nose for access to our market. And they should.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (mf5HN)
The first thing you have to do is stop calling it "free trade". It isn't about trade. It's solely about importation into the US market.
What we are really talking about, with this globalist shit, is free importation into the US market from every shithole in the world.
Well, the US market is the gem of the world. People and nations would pay through the nose for access to our market. And they should.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:28 PM (zc3Db)
204
I know, right?
Posted by: Tommy Veitor, Marie Harf, David Rhodes, Jon Favreau
------------
(ahem)
Posted by: Tommy Veitor, Marie Harf, David Rhodes, Jon Favreau
------------
(ahem)
Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at December 05, 2016 01:28 PM (ZO497)
205
" 100 watt incandescent bulbs as an example. "
I found some 98 watt ones.
I guess it's a loophole or something.
I found some 98 watt ones.
I guess it's a loophole or something.
Posted by: navybrat at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (w7KSn)
206
There is an American made product for just about
any product in the world most consumers would want to buy. And it is
usually of high quality.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:24 PM (gmeXX)
______________________________
Incandescent light bulb, for the win.
any product in the world most consumers would want to buy. And it is
usually of high quality.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:24 PM (gmeXX)
______________________________
Incandescent light bulb, for the win.
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (MlLtD)
207
The alternative to protecting American Citizens and their interests is the path we are on where you have to have a collge degree or grad school degree to be a bartender or wait tables or work retail.
Again the one sided "Free Trade" that benefits everybody but American is Global Marxism via transnational Corporations.
The trade deals are working out great with a yearly "800 billion trade deficit", domestic consumables more than Tripling the past 30 years and accelerating, and companies/government allowing a 3rd word invasion to replace American Citizens.
Our government might as well just cull half of the US citizens and get it over with.
Again the one sided "Free Trade" that benefits everybody but American is Global Marxism via transnational Corporations.
The trade deals are working out great with a yearly "800 billion trade deficit", domestic consumables more than Tripling the past 30 years and accelerating, and companies/government allowing a 3rd word invasion to replace American Citizens.
Our government might as well just cull half of the US citizens and get it over with.
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (F+dpa)
208
Why do people freak out like this after every Trump tweet? He's not part of the Mandarin class, that careful places subtle indicators into apparently routine statements to give insight into future operations without upsetting people. He speaks openly and broadly, giving ideas about his concerns and priorities. This kind of crap just directs attention to his issues of choice, and lays the groundwork for his future negotiations.
Bottom line: he's not happy with the constant flow of jobs out of the US, and he'll consider draconian measures, if necess, to stop it. I don't believe for a second there will ever be a 35% tariff like he proposes, but it's a good position of leverage to start a debate.
China will be dealing with a similar issue soon, too.
Bottom line: he's not happy with the constant flow of jobs out of the US, and he'll consider draconian measures, if necess, to stop it. I don't believe for a second there will ever be a 35% tariff like he proposes, but it's a good position of leverage to start a debate.
China will be dealing with a similar issue soon, too.
Posted by: Grimaldi at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (V/f/L)
209
But here's the problem with the "TruCon" position on trade, no matter how many taxes and regulations we realistically cut, it's never going to be as cheap as China.
------------
You see that as a problem. I see that as an opportunity. American will develop and innovate and build the things that the world truly needs. China can build everything else so we don't have to pay as much for them.
------------
You see that as a problem. I see that as an opportunity. American will develop and innovate and build the things that the world truly needs. China can build everything else so we don't have to pay as much for them.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (gmeXX)
210
I would point out the the British Empire did fairly well under Mercantilism,
Yeah. About that...
Yeah. About that...
Posted by: Irish Famine Victims at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (mgbwf)
211
Looks like Ben Carson is being nominated to lead Housing and Urban Development?
On one hand, I can't see how Carson is qualified, and he's already stated how he doesn't think he's ready to lead a cabinet position.
On the other hand, libs are already blowing a gasket about the nomination.
So I'm gonna call this one a wash.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (KUaJL)
-----------
I'm waiting for the wailing and gnashing of teeth from
the snowflakes on the Inherent Racism of DJT trying
to force a black man into the Urban jungle..Why even the
name HUD is just dog whistle for da Hood.
On one hand, I can't see how Carson is qualified, and he's already stated how he doesn't think he's ready to lead a cabinet position.
On the other hand, libs are already blowing a gasket about the nomination.
So I'm gonna call this one a wash.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 01:19 PM (KUaJL)
-----------
I'm waiting for the wailing and gnashing of teeth from
the snowflakes on the Inherent Racism of DJT trying
to force a black man into the Urban jungle..Why even the
name HUD is just dog whistle for da Hood.
Posted by: The guy with the hair at December 05, 2016 01:30 PM (zAEs4)
212
>.There is an American made product for just about any product in the
world most consumers would want to buy. And it is usually of high
quality.
Heh. Was just purchasing some Christmas presents over at blackriflecoffee.com and in response to complaints that some of their mugs are made in China they mention they cannot find American manufacturers who make some items - that they would switch to American made if they had the option.
Think Trump's presidency will be very interesting...
world most consumers would want to buy. And it is usually of high
quality.
Heh. Was just purchasing some Christmas presents over at blackriflecoffee.com and in response to complaints that some of their mugs are made in China they mention they cannot find American manufacturers who make some items - that they would switch to American made if they had the option.
Think Trump's presidency will be very interesting...
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 01:30 PM (NOIQH)
213
196 OT: Guardians 2 teaser trailer has hit! (Possibly old news but I just saw it.)
Basically going to be one of the greatest movies of all time.
Posted by: What's a Seawolf?
I finally saw Guardians of the Galaxy last week -- I thought I was going to hate it, but it was actually pretty good! If you can convince me, someone who has ZERO taste for comics books, then you're doing something right.
The one glaring flaw was Zoe Saldana -- she is such a terrible actress that she ruined every scene she was in. Everyone else was pretty good, though.
Basically going to be one of the greatest movies of all time.
Posted by: What's a Seawolf?
I finally saw Guardians of the Galaxy last week -- I thought I was going to hate it, but it was actually pretty good! If you can convince me, someone who has ZERO taste for comics books, then you're doing something right.
The one glaring flaw was Zoe Saldana -- she is such a terrible actress that she ruined every scene she was in. Everyone else was pretty good, though.
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:30 PM (jBuUi)
214
"Might also want to remember the "Paul Ryan / Kock Bros" position on trade would not have won Michigan, PA, WI, OH for Trump."
Nor insisting that cutting Social Security has to be done RIGHT NOW, while trillions keep getting pissed away throughout the budget.
Nor insisting that cutting Social Security has to be done RIGHT NOW, while trillions keep getting pissed away throughout the budget.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:30 PM (SIY7D)
215
Heh. Was just purchasing some Christmas presents over at blackriflecoffee.com and in response to complaints that some of their mugs are made in China they mention they cannot find American manufacturers who make some items - that they would switch to American made if they had the option.
-------------
I guaranty you can find American made mugs. Now you may have to pay a lot for them, but you can find them.
-------------
I guaranty you can find American made mugs. Now you may have to pay a lot for them, but you can find them.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:31 PM (gmeXX)
216
Did Al ask Ivanka to release his second chakra?
Posted by: wth at December 05, 2016 01:31 PM (HgMAr)
217
"Might also want to remember the "Paul Ryan / Kock Bros" position on trade would not have won Michigan, PA, WI, OH for Trump."
Nor insisting that cutting Social Security has to be done RIGHT NOW, while trillions keep getting pissed away throughout the budget.
Posted by: Ignoramus
Yea, I do think a lot of people on "our side" are willing to keep losing and be in a minority forever, but get to cluck about being "right" because they read it in National Review.
Nor insisting that cutting Social Security has to be done RIGHT NOW, while trillions keep getting pissed away throughout the budget.
Posted by: Ignoramus
Yea, I do think a lot of people on "our side" are willing to keep losing and be in a minority forever, but get to cluck about being "right" because they read it in National Review.
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:32 PM (LrdVd)
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:32 PM (C9pBZ)
219
Zoe Sadana? Who dat?
Oh, her!
And look, there is an Avatar 2 due out in 2018
and an Avatar 3 due out in 2020
and an Avatar 4 scheduled for 2022!
Zoe Sadana? Who dat?
Oh, her!
And look, there is an Avatar 2 due out in 2018
and an Avatar 3 due out in 2020
and an Avatar 4 scheduled for 2022!
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:33 PM (LMMAT)
220
The fact that people who believe in things like universal income as a replacement for work exist scares me. It's in- human people aren't batteries ...
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:33 PM (vhbai)
221
I was, porn in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Bruce Preteen at December 05, 2016 01:33 PM (QlyN5)
222
Sherrod Brown, the Yale-educated socialist from Ohio, threatens the max 30 hours of debate for each nominee. They don't have the filibuster available, but they do have this tactic left in their quiver.
Can the GOPe require Democrats to attend those sessions? If so, I'd be in favor of watching the Democrats required to attend 30 hour floor debates, which they assume would instead be spread over the course of two weeks or so.
Can the GOPe require Democrats to attend those sessions? If so, I'd be in favor of watching the Democrats required to attend 30 hour floor debates, which they assume would instead be spread over the course of two weeks or so.
Posted by: MTF at December 05, 2016 01:34 PM (sCBEO)
223
Yes, one of those "principles" being "Corporate profits are sacred above all other considerations".
I'm over being a "principled conservative".
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (S2VsH)
Economically gutting towns across the nation and sowing despair as jobs disappear so that a Wall Street fund can earn an extra nickel a share on dividends is not in the nation's interest. Free trade is a tool, it isn't some sacred idol to sacrifice the current generation to.
I'm over being a "principled conservative".
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 01:17 PM (S2VsH)
Economically gutting towns across the nation and sowing despair as jobs disappear so that a Wall Street fund can earn an extra nickel a share on dividends is not in the nation's interest. Free trade is a tool, it isn't some sacred idol to sacrifice the current generation to.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 01:34 PM (hLRSq)
224
"I finally saw Guardians of the Galaxy last week -- I thought I was going to hate it, but it was actually pretty good!"
My kids dragged me to it. I too really liked it, including because it knows it's a Comic Book Movie.
Seriously, I could have picked the soundtrack. I obsessed for years over who did the drumming on Ooh Ooh Child by the Five Stairsteps.
My kids dragged me to it. I too really liked it, including because it knows it's a Comic Book Movie.
Seriously, I could have picked the soundtrack. I obsessed for years over who did the drumming on Ooh Ooh Child by the Five Stairsteps.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:34 PM (SIY7D)
225
Hey, if we are going to recite Bruce Springsteen monotone lyrics set to music then we have to do Glory Days!
Hey, if we are going to recite Bruce Springsteen monotone lyrics set to music then we have to do Glory Days!
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:35 PM (LMMAT)
226
Also, I think a lot of people forget many of the countries that will get hurt by Trump's economic policies are incredibly hostile to the United States.
China rattles its saber on a regular basis and clearly wants to go to war with us at some point and Mexico sends its poor by the millions and laughs at our plight taking care of them.
We seem to have no problem with economic sanctions against Iran and Cuba, why not do something pretty menial like slap a tariff on imports from these countries while letting American companies get a tax break?
China rattles its saber on a regular basis and clearly wants to go to war with us at some point and Mexico sends its poor by the millions and laughs at our plight taking care of them.
We seem to have no problem with economic sanctions against Iran and Cuba, why not do something pretty menial like slap a tariff on imports from these countries while letting American companies get a tax break?
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:36 PM (LrdVd)
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:36 PM (9mOGz)
228
I was, sworn in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Bruce Cussword at December 05, 2016 01:36 PM (QlyN5)
229
Ok the defense of globalism is that prosperity in foreign lands not only increased prosperity here, it also increases stability and security, cuts back on immigration, and can even have an environmental benefit as nations that have developed can afford to be clean. Unfortunately, ideology gets in the way ...
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:37 PM (vhbai)
230
threatens the max 30 hours of debate for each nominee"
Yeah. Threaten all you want, Sher. President Elect Trump gets more press from one tweet that you'll get in a year.
FYNQ.
Yeah. Threaten all you want, Sher. President Elect Trump gets more press from one tweet that you'll get in a year.
FYNQ.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:37 PM (C9pBZ)
231
I was, mourned in the USA!
Posted by: Hillary Campaign Contributions at December 05, 2016 01:37 PM (S2VsH)
232
"I thought that was because of a potato blight?"
Yes, and food from Irish farms kept getting shipped to England.
Yes, and food from Irish farms kept getting shipped to England.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:37 PM (SIY7D)
233
Tarriffs? What will Trump do next -- grow a handlebar mustache and put us back on the gold standard?
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (jBuUi)
If he brings back babes like this, I'll be releasing my chakras all over the place:
goo.gl/KhFZkP
The Steampunk Presidency -- I'm liking this more and more!
Posted by: zombie at December 05, 2016 01:11 PM (jBuUi)
If he brings back babes like this, I'll be releasing my chakras all over the place:
goo.gl/KhFZkP
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (X6fMO)
234
Glory days well they'll HONK HONK HEEHAW
Posted by: Sick Braying Mule at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (HgMAr)
235
I thought that was because of a potato blight?
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:36 PM (9mOGz)
____________________
Revisionist history! Heritic! Burn the witch!
Any good Irishman knows it's always the fault of the English!
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:36 PM (9mOGz)
____________________
Revisionist history! Heritic! Burn the witch!
Any good Irishman knows it's always the fault of the English!
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (MlLtD)
236
Bruce had a voice made for Braille.
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (d6TTt)
237
I do like the idea of Trump working a path somewhere outside of the Hatfield/McCoy-Democrat/Republican divide. On this and other issues.
I don't really think tariffs are such a bad thing. We've been told forever that they are. I think it's become received wisdom at this point.
And I'm sure some of our commenters here can explain how wrong I am about this.
I don't really think tariffs are such a bad thing. We've been told forever that they are. I think it's become received wisdom at this point.
And I'm sure some of our commenters here can explain how wrong I am about this.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (TOk1P)
238
I can do 'em all HONK
Posted by: Sick Braying Mule at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (HgMAr)
Posted by: garrett at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (MQZBa)
240
OT:
Here's the full trailer for the new "Mummy" movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHgzkQM2Sg
Looks all 'splodey and actiony.
A Tom Cruise action movie instead of a horror movie.
If so, another big mistake for Universal's reintroduction of their classic movie monsters. Their previous attempt at Dracula blew chunks.
Here's the full trailer for the new "Mummy" movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHgzkQM2Sg
Looks all 'splodey and actiony.
A Tom Cruise action movie instead of a horror movie.
If so, another big mistake for Universal's reintroduction of their classic movie monsters. Their previous attempt at Dracula blew chunks.
Posted by: naturalfake at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (vZ9Fw)
241
Tariffs are obviously inherently bad for consumers. Trade is mutually beneficial or else it would not take place. Both sides benefit from every transaction. Tariffs prevent many of the transactions from being beneficial for one party and so that trade stops occuring.
The problem is a restrictive regulatory environment and constant demands to increase wages for brain dead jobs. Obviously companies are going to act in their own best interest and if they can manufacture in another country for a much lower costs because there is plentiful unskilled labor, they will do so.
Tariffs will keep some manufacturers in the US, but prices will rise for everyone who buys that product, making all of those Americans worse off. So maybe you save some jobs here and there, but everyone else pays more for the product. Note that those American manufacturers that remain will be limited to the American market as they will be incapable of competing on price with the relocated MNFs, not to mention whatever retaliatory tariffs they are hit with. So export based manufacturers will have almost no choice but to leave.
There is pain involved into moving to free trade, but there is also pain in moving away from it. Not to mention moving toward autarky will inevitably lead to a less wealth for everyone in the country compared to free trade.
Tariffs are best used as a threat, and maybe sometimes you need to follow through on an occasional threat, but they are a form of self-inflicted pain.
The problem is a restrictive regulatory environment and constant demands to increase wages for brain dead jobs. Obviously companies are going to act in their own best interest and if they can manufacture in another country for a much lower costs because there is plentiful unskilled labor, they will do so.
Tariffs will keep some manufacturers in the US, but prices will rise for everyone who buys that product, making all of those Americans worse off. So maybe you save some jobs here and there, but everyone else pays more for the product. Note that those American manufacturers that remain will be limited to the American market as they will be incapable of competing on price with the relocated MNFs, not to mention whatever retaliatory tariffs they are hit with. So export based manufacturers will have almost no choice but to leave.
There is pain involved into moving to free trade, but there is also pain in moving away from it. Not to mention moving toward autarky will inevitably lead to a less wealth for everyone in the country compared to free trade.
Tariffs are best used as a threat, and maybe sometimes you need to follow through on an occasional threat, but they are a form of self-inflicted pain.
Posted by: Sjg at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (gDSJf)
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (C9pBZ)
243
And look, there is an Avatar 2 due out in 2018
and an Avatar 3 due out in 2020
and an Avatar 4 scheduled for 2022!
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:33 PM (LMMAT)
Which of those is Avatar: Trail of Tears? I want to see not-Andrew Jackson of the new President of Pandora killing all those stupid blue people off.
... I did not like Avatar.
and an Avatar 3 due out in 2020
and an Avatar 4 scheduled for 2022!
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:33 PM (LMMAT)
Which of those is Avatar: Trail of Tears? I want to see not-Andrew Jackson of the new President of Pandora killing all those stupid blue people off.
... I did not like Avatar.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 01:40 PM (KUaJL)
244
I was, Suborned in the USA!
Posted by: Hillary at December 05, 2016 01:40 PM (tf9Ne)
245
A "mummy" movie, without Brendan Fraser and Rachel Weisz.? Nah.
Posted by: tubal at December 05, 2016 01:40 PM (d6TTt)
246
242 If he brings back babes like this...
Nice, er, bike.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (C9pBZ)
Comes with a rack.
Nice, er, bike.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (C9pBZ)
Comes with a rack.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (0mRoj)
247
Posted by: naturalfake at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM (vZ9Fw
The Mummy I saw as more of an action film with a half-comedy main character.
The Mummy I saw as more of an action film with a half-comedy main character.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (dzmBR)
248
Every country in the world is willing to pay big bucks to Congress, US President, Secretary of State and so forth to screw over regular US Citizens. US is currently being done to like China was during the early 20th century. Trump election is the US Boxer Rebellion. Rest of the world would be sending in their navies if the US didn't have the biggest..
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (9mOGz)
249
I agree with this comment 100% so I'm reposting it.
Exactly how I feel in this subject.
******
170 Here's the thing. I am against this proposal intellectually.
Emotionally? Hell. Yeah.
There is a human cost to free trade that matters. Take all the hand waving oh we'll just give you job training. For what jobs? The jobs we had just left. There aren't other jobs here. No amount of training will get past the point that the jobs for which you are being trained do not exist in the area where you are paying your mortgage.
No, people are not owed to have have good jobs in the area in which they want to live, of course not. But telling someone that hey you have to give up your entire history in an area and move somewhere else and start all over again to chase a job that may turn around and up and vanish again to people who are paid 1/20th of what you are paid and have to comply with 0% of the regulations you do has a very real cost. Human beings are not mere economic units. I am weary of people pretending otherwise.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (mf5HN)
Exactly how I feel in this subject.
******
170 Here's the thing. I am against this proposal intellectually.
Emotionally? Hell. Yeah.
There is a human cost to free trade that matters. Take all the hand waving oh we'll just give you job training. For what jobs? The jobs we had just left. There aren't other jobs here. No amount of training will get past the point that the jobs for which you are being trained do not exist in the area where you are paying your mortgage.
No, people are not owed to have have good jobs in the area in which they want to live, of course not. But telling someone that hey you have to give up your entire history in an area and move somewhere else and start all over again to chase a job that may turn around and up and vanish again to people who are paid 1/20th of what you are paid and have to comply with 0% of the regulations you do has a very real cost. Human beings are not mere economic units. I am weary of people pretending otherwise.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:21 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (6IPEM)
250
Ok the defense of globalism is that prosperity in foreign lands not only increased prosperity here, it also increases stability and security, cuts back on immigration, and can even have an environmental benefit as nations that have developed can afford to be clean. Unfortunately, ideology gets in the way ...
Posted by: Random Joe
_________
I think you mean reality gets in the way?
Because none of this has happened, and despite what people ,may say, this is about as close to "free trade" as you can get what we have right now.
You're now arguing about tenths of a cent as far as what else could be cut in the way of tariffs.
Posted by: Random Joe
_________
I think you mean reality gets in the way?
Because none of this has happened, and despite what people ,may say, this is about as close to "free trade" as you can get what we have right now.
You're now arguing about tenths of a cent as far as what else could be cut in the way of tariffs.
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (LrdVd)
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (C9pBZ)
252
Trump Assembling Team of Fierce Iran Deal Opponents
I hope, really hope he dicks that country as hard as possible. There are myriad reasons. My 2 top:
1) They deserve it.
2) It will be a big thumb in the eye to Jarrett the Ferret.
I hope, really hope he dicks that country as hard as possible. There are myriad reasons. My 2 top:
1) They deserve it.
2) It will be a big thumb in the eye to Jarrett the Ferret.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 05, 2016 01:42 PM (ty7RM)
253
I do like the idea of Trump working a path somewhere outside of the Hatfield/McCoy-Democrat/Republican divide.
Tariffs work well when you have the right people in charge of administering them. In fact, that is the whole theory behind a Representative Republic; government works better when you have elected the right people.
/he said knowingly with a quizzical head tilt and one raised eyebrow.
Tariffs work well when you have the right people in charge of administering them. In fact, that is the whole theory behind a Representative Republic; government works better when you have elected the right people.
/he said knowingly with a quizzical head tilt and one raised eyebrow.
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:42 PM (LMMAT)
254
NO Irish
Posted by: garrett
---------------
This, dammit!
You let the Micks in, and they next thing you know, there's carrots in the chili.
Posted by: garrett
---------------
This, dammit!
You let the Micks in, and they next thing you know, there's carrots in the chili.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 05, 2016 01:42 PM (ZO497)
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:42 PM (C9pBZ)
256
Let me pay $2000 for it once, and let it last 7-10 years. That's how shit is supposed to work. It's how it can work again. You save for big purchases. Big purchases last.
Don't tell me, "It can never be that way again. That ship has sailed." The same assholes who tell me that INSISTED that Trump would never be President of the United States.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at
-----
Alex, I'll take 'planned obsolescence" for $1000.00
Let me pay $2000 for it once, and let it last 7-10 years. That's how shit is supposed to work. It's how it can work again. You save for big purchases. Big purchases last.
Don't tell me, "It can never be that way again. That ship has sailed." The same assholes who tell me that INSISTED that Trump would never be President of the United States.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at
-----
Alex, I'll take 'planned obsolescence" for $1000.00
Posted by: The guy with the hair at December 05, 2016 01:42 PM (zAEs4)
257
Quorned in the USA.
Posted by: Vegan at December 05, 2016 01:43 PM (MQZBa)
258
"Irish Famine Victims"
I thought that was because of a potato blight?
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:36 PM (9mOGz)
It was because they were locally grown (and fertilized) by 19th century hippies...
I thought that was because of a potato blight?
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:36 PM (9mOGz)
It was because they were locally grown (and fertilized) by 19th century hippies...
Posted by: The Organic Hat at December 05, 2016 01:43 PM (vBeA5)
259
"Any good Irishman knows it's always the fault of the English!"
I'm part way through re-reading Ireland by Paul Johnson -- an English historian. One of themes is how bad England and Great Britain were at governing Ireland. The history of Ireland since it won independence proves the point as Ireland has already moved from the bottom of the Second World to a place in the First.
Living well is the best revenge. But the bestest is beating England at rugby 43 to 13 in Gaelic Park.
I'm part way through re-reading Ireland by Paul Johnson -- an English historian. One of themes is how bad England and Great Britain were at governing Ireland. The history of Ireland since it won independence proves the point as Ireland has already moved from the bottom of the Second World to a place in the First.
Living well is the best revenge. But the bestest is beating England at rugby 43 to 13 in Gaelic Park.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:43 PM (SIY7D)
260
I was, Gorn in the U.S.A.
Posted by: General Zod at December 05, 2016 01:43 PM (Bdeb0)
261
Posted by: naturalfake at December 05, 2016 01:39 PM
Yeesch. Give me another Brendan Fraser sequel any day. Even with The Rock.
Yeesch. Give me another Brendan Fraser sequel any day. Even with The Rock.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at December 05, 2016 01:43 PM (S2VsH)
262
I do like the idea of Trump working a path somewhere outside of the Hatfield/McCoy-Democrat/Republican divide. On this and other issues.
I think Trump is living up 100% to the criticism he received in primaries. He's arrogant and prideful, a weather-vane, and has no particular political principles beyond "what's good for me."
Because of all of that, I think he has the ability to be the greatest President we've had in a generation.
He's arrogant and prideful - so a) he won't be going around bowing and scraping to every world leader and b) he wants to be re-elected. That means...
As a weather-vane with no particular political principles beyond "what's good for me," he'll be constantly checking in with his base to see what's good for them - because that's how he'll keep his base.
And he knows he needs to keep his base, because the Democrats have decided he's Satan incarnate and will never support him.
In a way, it's just the Democrats' over-the-top rhetoric and attacks that have basically assured us that Donald Trump will remain true to the Republican grass-roots who are mostly responsible for his election.
I think Trump is living up 100% to the criticism he received in primaries. He's arrogant and prideful, a weather-vane, and has no particular political principles beyond "what's good for me."
Because of all of that, I think he has the ability to be the greatest President we've had in a generation.
He's arrogant and prideful - so a) he won't be going around bowing and scraping to every world leader and b) he wants to be re-elected. That means...
As a weather-vane with no particular political principles beyond "what's good for me," he'll be constantly checking in with his base to see what's good for them - because that's how he'll keep his base.
And he knows he needs to keep his base, because the Democrats have decided he's Satan incarnate and will never support him.
In a way, it's just the Democrats' over-the-top rhetoric and attacks that have basically assured us that Donald Trump will remain true to the Republican grass-roots who are mostly responsible for his election.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kff5f)
263
Ok is ok - it all happens so fast now is what shocks me - I thought America was dead she was just sleeping
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (vhbai)
Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (8XRCm)
Posted by: Roman Polanski at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kDUMP)
266
You see that as a problem. I see that as an opportunity. American will develop and innovate and build the things that the world truly needs. China can build everything else so we don't have to pay as much for them.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (gmeXX)
I see it as a huge problem that China uses slave labor.
I see it as a huge problem that China has no compunction whatsoever about destroying the environment and I mean actual toxic pollution not "climate change" garbage.
I see it as a huge problem that China is a brutal dictatorship that has no qualms about merely up and displacing swaths of its subjects in order to make "everything else".
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
You see that as a problem. I see that as an opportunity. American will develop and innovate and build the things that the world truly needs. China can build everything else so we don't have to pay as much for them.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:29 PM (gmeXX)
I see it as a huge problem that China uses slave labor.
I see it as a huge problem that China has no compunction whatsoever about destroying the environment and I mean actual toxic pollution not "climate change" garbage.
I see it as a huge problem that China is a brutal dictatorship that has no qualms about merely up and displacing swaths of its subjects in order to make "everything else".
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
267
DAMMIT ZOD!!
DAMMIT ZOD!!
Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (8XRCm)
268
Which of those is Avatar: Trail of Tears? I want to see not-Andrew Jackson of the new President of Pandora killing all those stupid blue people off.
... I did not like Avatar.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 01:40 PM (KUaJL)
I tried watching Avatar, and gave up with the Americans blew up the World Trade Center/Big Tree.
Not Americans? Don't be silly, of course they were.
... I did not like Avatar.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 05, 2016 01:40 PM (KUaJL)
I tried watching Avatar, and gave up with the Americans blew up the World Trade Center/Big Tree.
Not Americans? Don't be silly, of course they were.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 05, 2016 01:45 PM (TOk1P)
269
I'm a throne-sniffin' daddy in the USA
Posted by: Brooce Springshit at December 05, 2016 01:45 PM (ul9CR)
270
Heh
Taiwanese animators are happy about the Taiwan -Trump call
https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/805739415385444353
Taiwanese animators are happy about the Taiwan -Trump call
https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/805739415385444353
Posted by: Deplorable votermom @vm on Gab at December 05, 2016 01:45 PM (Om16U)
271
I was, Cornned in the USA!
Posted by: Mitt Romney at December 05, 2016 01:45 PM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:45 PM (8XRCm)
273
"but they are a form of self-inflicted pain."
Not at this point in the US. US consumer + service economy is collapsing. Evidence is Walmart's financials + trucking + trains + car inventories.
Can't save the world but can save US. Close the borders and start up manufacturing.
Not at this point in the US. US consumer + service economy is collapsing. Evidence is Walmart's financials + trucking + trains + car inventories.
Can't save the world but can save US. Close the borders and start up manufacturing.
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:46 PM (9mOGz)
274
I was, porn in the U.S.A.
Posted by: Bruce Preteen at December 05, 2016 01:33 PM
Go on....
Posted by: Roman Polanski at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kDUMP)
Someone call for Cheese Pizza?
Posted by: Bruce Preteen at December 05, 2016 01:33 PM
Go on....
Posted by: Roman Polanski at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kDUMP)
Someone call for Cheese Pizza?
Posted by: The Podesta Bros. at December 05, 2016 01:46 PM (vBeA5)
275
"Irish Famine Victims"
I thought that was because of a potato blight?
There was a potato blight. There were also laws against the importation of grain, which fall under the general rubric of mercantilism.
On the other hand, yay, my great grandmother got to come here as ballast.
I thought that was because of a potato blight?
There was a potato blight. There were also laws against the importation of grain, which fall under the general rubric of mercantilism.
On the other hand, yay, my great grandmother got to come here as ballast.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, what is a proud Nitwit Lion at December 05, 2016 01:46 PM (mgbwf)
276
>>b) he wants to be re-elected. That means...Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kff5f)
I've been paying attention, but I don't think I've seen Trump really show commitment to a two-term presidency. Not that that might seem reasonable, but I think stating that "he wants to be re-elected" isn't a sure thing. Knowing if he did, in fact, would shed a lot of light on what he intends this first go-round...
I've been paying attention, but I don't think I've seen Trump really show commitment to a two-term presidency. Not that that might seem reasonable, but I think stating that "he wants to be re-elected" isn't a sure thing. Knowing if he did, in fact, would shed a lot of light on what he intends this first go-round...
Posted by: General Zod at December 05, 2016 01:46 PM (Bdeb0)
277
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
___________________________________________________
ATC said exactly what I was thinking, only quicker and better. Therefore I lose.
I demand we now place a 35% additional delay in her posts.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
___________________________________________________
ATC said exactly what I was thinking, only quicker and better. Therefore I lose.
I demand we now place a 35% additional delay in her posts.
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 01:47 PM (MlLtD)
278
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick
---------------
Pfft. The advancement of international communism is vastly more important than the individual.
Posted by: alexthechick
---------------
Pfft. The advancement of international communism is vastly more important than the individual.
Posted by: Joseph Stalin at December 05, 2016 01:47 PM (ZO497)
279
Any good Irishman knows it's always the fault of the English!
Where is the flag of England?
Go North, South, East or West -
Wherever there's wealth to plunder,
Or land to be possessed;
Wherever there's feeble races
To frighten, coerce or scare -
You'll find the butcher's apron;
The English flag is there!
- - The Wolfe Tones
Where is the flag of England?
Go North, South, East or West -
Wherever there's wealth to plunder,
Or land to be possessed;
Wherever there's feeble races
To frighten, coerce or scare -
You'll find the butcher's apron;
The English flag is there!
- - The Wolfe Tones
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 01:47 PM (X6fMO)
280
When Australia built its railroads, the spacing between the rails varied from state to state. So at the borders, they built facilities to switch out the wheels under each car to match the track gauge of the next state.
These were big sources of state employment, but destroyers of national productivity.
Trump needs to get domestic employment up but he can't do it at the expense of productivity.
He could start by blowing up every public sector union (because really, do workers need a union to protect them from their own government?) but he needs to keep the private sector on its toes too. If the private sector just starts behaving like GM circa 1977 we're no better off.
These were big sources of state employment, but destroyers of national productivity.
Trump needs to get domestic employment up but he can't do it at the expense of productivity.
He could start by blowing up every public sector union (because really, do workers need a union to protect them from their own government?) but he needs to keep the private sector on its toes too. If the private sector just starts behaving like GM circa 1977 we're no better off.
Posted by: Halfwise at December 05, 2016 01:47 PM (rB/gm)
281
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
-------------
You can obviously make a case against China for human right abuses. To some extent, that ship sailed a long time ago. Still we could raise it today. If you want to make a humanitarian case - go for it - its a good case to make. I'll listen. Its a much better case than they just have cheaper labor - which they do and likely always will.
-------------
You can obviously make a case against China for human right abuses. To some extent, that ship sailed a long time ago. Still we could raise it today. If you want to make a humanitarian case - go for it - its a good case to make. I'll listen. Its a much better case than they just have cheaper labor - which they do and likely always will.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:47 PM (gmeXX)
282
I do like the idea of Trump working a path somewhere outside of the Hatfield/McCoy-Democrat/Republican divide. On this and other issues.
I don't really think tariffs are such a bad thing. We've been told forever that they are. I think it's become received wisdom at this point.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (TOk1P)
******
Yeah, all I know is that Smoot Hawley or whatever it was called was a disaster. I want to see how this plays out in the world we live in today. What we have been doing regarding free trade hasn't been working except to the advantage of enriching big businesses and building up third world countries.
I don't really think tariffs are such a bad thing. We've been told forever that they are. I think it's become received wisdom at this point.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (TOk1P)
******
Yeah, all I know is that Smoot Hawley or whatever it was called was a disaster. I want to see how this plays out in the world we live in today. What we have been doing regarding free trade hasn't been working except to the advantage of enriching big businesses and building up third world countries.
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:48 PM (6IPEM)
Posted by: Beef at December 05, 2016 01:48 PM (kDUMP)
284
I've been paying attention, but I don't think I've seen Trump really show commitment to a two-term presidency. Not that that might seem reasonable, but I think stating that "he wants to be re-elected" isn't a sure thing. Knowing if he did, in fact, would shed a lot of light on what he intends this first go-round...
I think he's realistic enough to know that if he wants his policies (and therefore: his "legacy") to stick around, he'll need to be there for 8 years. I could be wrong, but I doubt he's just in it for the 4 years.
I think he's realistic enough to know that if he wants his policies (and therefore: his "legacy") to stick around, he'll need to be there for 8 years. I could be wrong, but I doubt he's just in it for the 4 years.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:48 PM (kff5f)
285
I'm not seeing the so called "opportunities" in the 21st Century that I keep hearing about because of Trade deals, globalism, and monitary and fiscal policies.
I see debt and lots and lots of debt with no end in sight and no future for future generations, unless living in a 3rd world shit hole counts as a future.
I see debt and lots and lots of debt with no end in sight and no future for future generations, unless living in a 3rd world shit hole counts as a future.
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:48 PM (F+dpa)
286
ATC said exactly what I was thinking, only quicker and better. Therefore I lose.
I demand we now place a 35% additional delay in her posts.
Posted by: IP
-----------
Point taken. I shall make it so.
I demand we now place a 35% additional delay in her posts.
Posted by: IP
-----------
Point taken. I shall make it so.
Posted by: Diana Moon Glampers, Handicapper General at December 05, 2016 01:49 PM (ZO497)
287
just because Trump says it, does not make it wrong.
that is what this academic tells his Huff Po readers.
He points to the US VAT problem, for one thing. He explains it better, as an academic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/ian-fletcher
To me it is simple ... we believe in a lot of values that we fund with taxes and enforce by rules. Using child labor 12hrs/day in smog filled Beijing, mass producing equipment with stolen technology ... allows multi-nationals to avoid paying the cost of those values. But without a VAT or tariff, they still get to sell back into our debt ridden markets.
That enriches those that don't hold our values, and in time they start buying our assets, our debt, or go to war with us. If we want to maintain our values, we (our government) have to prevent that, or they convert trade deficits in ownership ... of US.
As in love and war, it does not pay to be "fair", as I see it. We do whatever is necessary to protect our country from enemy action. That enemy may use the economy, military, mass migration, or cultural Marxist infiltration of ideas. The globalists use all of them ... and they always lie and cheat, while demanding we "be fair", be PC.
that is what this academic tells his Huff Po readers.
He points to the US VAT problem, for one thing. He explains it better, as an academic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/ian-fletcher
To me it is simple ... we believe in a lot of values that we fund with taxes and enforce by rules. Using child labor 12hrs/day in smog filled Beijing, mass producing equipment with stolen technology ... allows multi-nationals to avoid paying the cost of those values. But without a VAT or tariff, they still get to sell back into our debt ridden markets.
That enriches those that don't hold our values, and in time they start buying our assets, our debt, or go to war with us. If we want to maintain our values, we (our government) have to prevent that, or they convert trade deficits in ownership ... of US.
As in love and war, it does not pay to be "fair", as I see it. We do whatever is necessary to protect our country from enemy action. That enemy may use the economy, military, mass migration, or cultural Marxist infiltration of ideas. The globalists use all of them ... and they always lie and cheat, while demanding we "be fair", be PC.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 05, 2016 01:49 PM (pS/eA)
Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:49 PM (8XRCm)
289
>>267 DAMMIT ZOD!! Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (8XRCm)
Zod does not take damns, he gives them!
Zod does not take damns, he gives them!
Posted by: General Zod at December 05, 2016 01:49 PM (Bdeb0)
290
The Mummy I saw as more of an action film with a half-comedy main character.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (dzmBR)
I liked the Brendan Fraser versions. (What the heck ever happened to him?)
Sort of Indiana Jones Meets the Mummy.
This just looks, from the trailer anyway, like a generic actioner with a "serious tone".
The villain kinda reminds me of the "Suicide Squad" Big Bad which means pretty forgettable and not a character to build a franchise around.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 01:41 PM (dzmBR)
I liked the Brendan Fraser versions. (What the heck ever happened to him?)
Sort of Indiana Jones Meets the Mummy.
This just looks, from the trailer anyway, like a generic actioner with a "serious tone".
The villain kinda reminds me of the "Suicide Squad" Big Bad which means pretty forgettable and not a character to build a franchise around.
Posted by: naturalfake at December 05, 2016 01:49 PM (vZ9Fw)
Posted by: wth at December 05, 2016 01:49 PM (HgMAr)
292
Alex, I'll take 'planned obsolescence" for $1000.00
Posted by: The guy with the hair at December 05, 2016 01:42 PM (zAEs4)
Not just planned, but inevitable. Especially in the realm of technology, most items will be obsolete by way of natural advancement within a few years.
It is true that many items that used to last a long time can now be expected to break within a few years but technology is one area where one cannot stop the obsolescing of items very quickly. That is part of the deflationary nature of technology.
The problem is in items that will not be obsolete in 5 years or even 25 years, that used to last but no longer do. Things like major appliances, where technology has little to no real effect on them. A refrigerator is a refrigerator. Nothing has changed in many decades. Yes, they get a bit more efficient but there's really nothing technology has to offer a refrigerator. The few lunatics who want their frigs to be online, with cameras in them and all that crap can pay extra for their toys. Most people have no need for anything beyond a unit that refrigerates - and no desire for anything else.
Posted by: The guy with the hair at December 05, 2016 01:42 PM (zAEs4)
Not just planned, but inevitable. Especially in the realm of technology, most items will be obsolete by way of natural advancement within a few years.
It is true that many items that used to last a long time can now be expected to break within a few years but technology is one area where one cannot stop the obsolescing of items very quickly. That is part of the deflationary nature of technology.
The problem is in items that will not be obsolete in 5 years or even 25 years, that used to last but no longer do. Things like major appliances, where technology has little to no real effect on them. A refrigerator is a refrigerator. Nothing has changed in many decades. Yes, they get a bit more efficient but there's really nothing technology has to offer a refrigerator. The few lunatics who want their frigs to be online, with cameras in them and all that crap can pay extra for their toys. Most people have no need for anything beyond a unit that refrigerates - and no desire for anything else.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 01:49 PM (zc3Db)
293
Conservatives are though going to have to ask themselves if they are willing to go down with their ship with respect to Free Trade.
Does anyone here think we would NOT have had President Hillary Clinton if Trump had run on the standard "Republican" free trade policy? The Rust Belt would have gone blue like it has EVERY Presidential cycle for like the last 30 years.
So if someone has a political way out of this and is willing to also cut taxes and regulation, I think if nothing else but political necessity, we need to embrace it.
I personally though don't buy into all the trappings of free trade anyway. Especially since Karl Marx was a big proponent of Free Trade because it destroyed national identity.
Does anyone here think we would NOT have had President Hillary Clinton if Trump had run on the standard "Republican" free trade policy? The Rust Belt would have gone blue like it has EVERY Presidential cycle for like the last 30 years.
So if someone has a political way out of this and is willing to also cut taxes and regulation, I think if nothing else but political necessity, we need to embrace it.
I personally though don't buy into all the trappings of free trade anyway. Especially since Karl Marx was a big proponent of Free Trade because it destroyed national identity.
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:50 PM (LrdVd)
294
>>You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Literally. As in an organ transplant business using unwilling political prisoners as the source of organs.
Literally. As in an organ transplant business using unwilling political prisoners as the source of organs.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 01:50 PM (NOIQH)
295
In a way, it's just the Democrats' over-the-top rhetoric and attacks that have basically assured us that Donald Trump will remain true to the Republican grass-roots who are mostly responsible for his election.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kff5f)
I am going to enjoy watching them twist in knots, as they accuse Donald of being worse than Hilter, and the most evilest evil conservative who... likes teh married gheys and other stuff.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kff5f)
I am going to enjoy watching them twist in knots, as they accuse Donald of being worse than Hilter, and the most evilest evil conservative who... likes teh married gheys and other stuff.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 05, 2016 01:50 PM (TOk1P)
296
But telling someone that hey you have to give up your entire history in an area and move somewhere else and start all over again to chase a job that may turn around and up and vanish again to people who are paid 1/20th of what you are paid and have to comply with 0% of the regulations you do has a very real cost. Human beings are not mere economic units. I am weary of people pretending otherwise.
--------------
Telling them they don't have to leave may be just as inhumane.
A fine line I suppose.
--------------
Telling them they don't have to leave may be just as inhumane.
A fine line I suppose.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:50 PM (gmeXX)
297
At the very least (to follow up on my last comment), I think he knows that having your political opponents win out over your own party is the opposite of "success" (and he's proud and arrogant, and wants to succeed), and so he'll act as though he's going to run for a 2nd term even if he's not planning to.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:50 PM (kff5f)
298
was, Cornned in the USA!
Posted by:Mitt Romney at December 05, 2016 01:45 PM
Posted by:Beef at December 05, 2016 01:48 PM (kDUMP)
Posted by: Holed
Posted by:
Posted by:
Posted by: Holed
Posted by: rickb223 at December 05, 2016 01:50 PM (v0qEa)
299
All of it has actually happened ... and will continue. Yes it's reality that gets in the way - pure markets don't really exist due to politics and human nature. Like I said I'm moderating - let's do massive infrastructure ours' is embarrassing...
Fascinating what's going on in India and their withdrawal of currency to fight corruption (black money)
Fascinating what's going on in India and their withdrawal of currency to fight corruption (black money)
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 01:50 PM (vhbai)
300
unless living in a 3rd world shit hole counts as a future.
------------
Do you really think the US is on its way to being a 3rd world shit hole?
If so, I'm sorry I do not share your fears.
------------
Do you really think the US is on its way to being a 3rd world shit hole?
If so, I'm sorry I do not share your fears.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:51 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Evilpens at December 05, 2016 01:51 PM (y3aQB)
302
As in love and war, it does not pay to be "fair"
Exactly so. "Fair" means I didn't beat the sh** out of my opponent prior to starting. I do not want a level playing field in anything. Tilt that mother my way...
"that's not fair" is the whiner.
Exactly so. "Fair" means I didn't beat the sh** out of my opponent prior to starting. I do not want a level playing field in anything. Tilt that mother my way...
"that's not fair" is the whiner.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:51 PM (C9pBZ)
303
Yeah, all I know is that Smoot Hawley or whatever it was called was a disaster. I want to see how this plays out in the world we live in today. What we have been doing regarding free trade hasn't been working except to the advantage of enriching big businesses and building up third world countries.
Posted by: L, Elle
The conventional, academic answer is that Smoot-Hawley caused the Great Depression and FDR's New Deal got us out of it.
I don't believe either explanation and think both results would have happened regardless.
Posted by: L, Elle
The conventional, academic answer is that Smoot-Hawley caused the Great Depression and FDR's New Deal got us out of it.
I don't believe either explanation and think both results would have happened regardless.
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 01:52 PM (LrdVd)
304
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
So does our government and multinational corporations. Three have been viewing us this way for close to 4 decades.
Globalism is modelled this way.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
So does our government and multinational corporations. Three have been viewing us this way for close to 4 decades.
Globalism is modelled this way.
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (F+dpa)
305
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
Next thing you'll be saying that the citizens get a say in how the country should be managed. Where on earth could such a zany idea have come from?
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
Next thing you'll be saying that the citizens get a say in how the country should be managed. Where on earth could such a zany idea have come from?
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (hLRSq)
306
As in love and war, it does not pay to be "fair"
Exactly so. "Fair" means I didn't beat the sh** out of my opponent prior to starting. I do not want a level playing field in anything. Tilt that mother my way...
"that's not fair" is the whiner.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:51 PM (C9pBZ)
-----
My Dad had a saying when we whined about "fair".
"Fair is a pig show in August."
Exactly so. "Fair" means I didn't beat the sh** out of my opponent prior to starting. I do not want a level playing field in anything. Tilt that mother my way...
"that's not fair" is the whiner.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:51 PM (C9pBZ)
-----
My Dad had a saying when we whined about "fair".
"Fair is a pig show in August."
Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (8XRCm)
307
As in an organ transplant business using unwilling political prisoners as the source of organs."
Bbbbut see, I can get a transplant soooo much cheaper in China, so it's soooo much better!
/your betters
Bbbbut see, I can get a transplant soooo much cheaper in China, so it's soooo much better!
/your betters
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (C9pBZ)
Posted by: Rusty Nail (full discolsure: also goddamned Irish) at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (S2VsH)
309
Ya, if you like free trade, you are going to love the Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO) trafficking refugees into Europe by the boat load.
Zero Hedge was asking who was paying the costs of moving boatloads of people across the Mediterranean.
Ya, if you like free trade, you are going to love the Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO) trafficking refugees into Europe by the boat load.
Zero Hedge was asking who was paying the costs of moving boatloads of people across the Mediterranean.
Posted by: Sunny in Wisconsin at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (LMMAT)
310
"I see it as a huge problem that China has no compunction whatsoever about destroying the environment and I mean actual toxic pollution not "climate change" garbage."
Agree with all your points. Chinese water pollution may turn out to be worse than air pollution.
There's been a boon for a decade in the sales of high-end NYC condos which are largely unoccupied, many bought by high-end Chinese who know they may need a life raft.
Agree with all your points. Chinese water pollution may turn out to be worse than air pollution.
There's been a boon for a decade in the sales of high-end NYC condos which are largely unoccupied, many bought by high-end Chinese who know they may need a life raft.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (SIY7D)
Posted by: Halfwise at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (rB/gm)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:54 PM (kff5f)
313
Posted by: BurtTC at December 05, 2016 01:38 PM (TOk1P)
******
Yeah, all I know is that Smoot Hawley or whatever it was called was a disaster. I want to see how this plays out in the world we live in today. What we have been doing regarding free trade hasn't been working except to the advantage of enriching big businesses and building up third world countries.
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:48 PM (6IPEM)
Actually it was all that bastage Smoot's fault. I just went along with it because he had pitchers of me in a bathtub full of gin, a live girl, and a dead goat.
******
Yeah, all I know is that Smoot Hawley or whatever it was called was a disaster. I want to see how this plays out in the world we live in today. What we have been doing regarding free trade hasn't been working except to the advantage of enriching big businesses and building up third world countries.
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:48 PM (6IPEM)
Actually it was all that bastage Smoot's fault. I just went along with it because he had pitchers of me in a bathtub full of gin, a live girl, and a dead goat.
Posted by: Zombie Hawley at December 05, 2016 01:54 PM (TOk1P)
Posted by: IP at December 05, 2016 01:54 PM (MlLtD)
315
That 'Hell Hath no Fury' Woman
Posted by: Halfwise at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (rB/gm)
-----
Pro Tip:
All women are "Hell Hath no Fury" women.
Posted by: Halfwise at December 05, 2016 01:53 PM (rB/gm)
-----
Pro Tip:
All women are "Hell Hath no Fury" women.
Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:55 PM (8XRCm)
316
Posted by: Ok at December 05, 2016 01:46 PM (9mOGz)
That's not a magic fix. People have to be trained into those jobs, infrastructure and tooling has to be built. US labor costs will increase prices which means some things that were imported will never get made, others in vastly reduced amounts because there isn't as much demand for more expensive goods. American consumers will have to pay more if they want maintain their current purchases. Except for the few with new jobs, everyone else will have the same amount of money to spend on a variety of more expensive products which means they will all become less wealthy than they were before. Americans who make their living in export focused sectors will lose their jobs as other countries institute more barriers to American products. Those people will end up having to retrain, go on unemployment or welfare just as the people who worked for the companies that moved jobs overseas.
That's not a magic fix. People have to be trained into those jobs, infrastructure and tooling has to be built. US labor costs will increase prices which means some things that were imported will never get made, others in vastly reduced amounts because there isn't as much demand for more expensive goods. American consumers will have to pay more if they want maintain their current purchases. Except for the few with new jobs, everyone else will have the same amount of money to spend on a variety of more expensive products which means they will all become less wealthy than they were before. Americans who make their living in export focused sectors will lose their jobs as other countries institute more barriers to American products. Those people will end up having to retrain, go on unemployment or welfare just as the people who worked for the companies that moved jobs overseas.
Posted by: Sjg at December 05, 2016 01:55 PM (gDSJf)
317
There's been a boon for a decade in the sales of high-end NYC condos which are largely unoccupied, many bought by high-end Chinese who know they may need a life raft.
--------------
The rich in every country buys in America - mostly because they know their wealth is generally safe here. It won't be confiscated.
Tell me again, how China is going to catch up to America under those circumstances.
--------------
The rich in every country buys in America - mostly because they know their wealth is generally safe here. It won't be confiscated.
Tell me again, how China is going to catch up to America under those circumstances.
Posted by: SH at December 05, 2016 01:55 PM (gmeXX)
318
Zero Hedge was asking who was paying the costs"
Read that too. Interesting Q, no? Wonder why some enterprising "journalist" hasn't taken on that tale...
Ok, you got me there. I'm not really wondering.
Read that too. Interesting Q, no? Wonder why some enterprising "journalist" hasn't taken on that tale...
Ok, you got me there. I'm not really wondering.
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:55 PM (C9pBZ)
319
Also, Cochran is a Scottish name, so don't go blaming carrot chili on the Irish.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, what is a proud Nitwit Lion at December 05, 2016 01:56 PM (mgbwf)
320
Might have something to do with the current corporate tax rate. What if the tariff proposal is just bluster to get the corporate rate cut?
Posted by: Blanco Basura #Free Cthulhu (with full price purchase of Azatoth or Nyarlathotep) at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (IcT7t)
This is my guess. It's negotiating positioning to get what he actually wants.
Posted by: Blanco Basura #Free Cthulhu (with full price purchase of Azatoth or Nyarlathotep) at December 05, 2016 12:58 PM (IcT7t)
This is my guess. It's negotiating positioning to get what he actually wants.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 05, 2016 01:56 PM (SRKgf)
321
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
For whatever reason, one way to get a Commie to orgasm instantaneously is whisper "Centralized planning" in its ear. That includes domestic commies. If you look at what the actual goal of Common Core is, it's all about workforce planning. Each successive generation of commies thinks they'll get it right.This time.
For whatever reason, one way to get a Commie to orgasm instantaneously is whisper "Centralized planning" in its ear. That includes domestic commies. If you look at what the actual goal of Common Core is, it's all about workforce planning. Each successive generation of commies thinks they'll get it right.This time.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 05, 2016 01:56 PM (ty7RM)
322
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
-------
......Annnd......?????????
~The IRS
-------
......Annnd......?????????
~The IRS
Posted by: fixerupper - It's Raider Hater Week at December 05, 2016 01:57 PM (8XRCm)
323
Tariffs? Why can't we talk about important stuff like Zionist Sperm Banks?
https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview/status/805831949331873792
https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview/status/805831949331873792
Posted by: The Elders of Zion at December 05, 2016 01:57 PM (vBeA5)
324
212 >.There is an American made product for just about any product in the
world most consumers would want to buy. And it is usually of high
quality.
Heh. Was just purchasing some Christmas presents over at blackriflecoffee.com and in response to complaints that some of their mugs are made in China they mention they cannot find American manufacturers who make some items - that they would switch to American made if they had the option.
Think Trump's presidency will be very interesting...
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 01:30 PM (NOIQH)
Sounds like an opening for a bunch of small businesses!
IF
We can keep local regulations and licenses from strangling the business at birth.
We can keep states from doing the same.
Trump can get the federal government off their backs too.
world most consumers would want to buy. And it is usually of high
quality.
Heh. Was just purchasing some Christmas presents over at blackriflecoffee.com and in response to complaints that some of their mugs are made in China they mention they cannot find American manufacturers who make some items - that they would switch to American made if they had the option.
Think Trump's presidency will be very interesting...
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 01:30 PM (NOIQH)
Sounds like an opening for a bunch of small businesses!
IF
We can keep local regulations and licenses from strangling the business at birth.
We can keep states from doing the same.
Trump can get the federal government off their backs too.
Posted by: rd at December 05, 2016 01:58 PM (Rtl0g)
325
In a way, it's just the Democrats' over-the-top rhetoric and attacks that have basically assured us that Donald Trump will remain true to the Republican grass-roots who are mostly responsible for his election.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kff5f)
Trump peeled substantial union rank and file votes though. And what's good for the union Rank and file (tariffs and minimum wage bumps) is NOT good for me.
In a way, it's just the Democrats' over-the-top rhetoric and attacks that have basically assured us that Donald Trump will remain true to the Republican grass-roots who are mostly responsible for his election.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (kff5f)
Trump peeled substantial union rank and file votes though. And what's good for the union Rank and file (tariffs and minimum wage bumps) is NOT good for me.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 01:58 PM (dzmBR)
326
All we get out of our brilliant free trade deals is crap that we buy at the dollar store. I am willing to pay $5 for a coffee mug if it creates a job HERE that can take care of a family.
Really, it boggles the mind that we can manage to import strawberries and mangos from Mexico and South America, even ship them here from so far away, and sell them for less $2.
Really, it boggles the mind that we can manage to import strawberries and mangos from Mexico and South America, even ship them here from so far away, and sell them for less $2.
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:58 PM (6IPEM)
327
I'd rather be able to afford food, water, and energy than Ipads, TV's, Nike sneakers, and other 3rd world trinkets.
Posted by: Pepe, Proud American Nationalist at December 05, 2016 01:58 PM (F+dpa)
328
And, "workforce planning" is just like "planned parenthood."
It sounds great on the face of it. The practical application is heinous.
It sounds great on the face of it. The practical application is heinous.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 05, 2016 01:58 PM (ty7RM)
329
The rich in every country buys in America "
Indeed. I was quite surprised to find out that so many from Central and South America buy houses/properties in the Houston area and never move/live in them, but show up for a week or so once or twice a year.
They're generally very well maintained (by local RE management firms), and then sold off for "withdrawals".
Who knew?
Indeed. I was quite surprised to find out that so many from Central and South America buy houses/properties in the Houston area and never move/live in them, but show up for a week or so once or twice a year.
They're generally very well maintained (by local RE management firms), and then sold off for "withdrawals".
Who knew?
Posted by: Anon a mouse... at December 05, 2016 01:59 PM (C9pBZ)
330
Not just planned, but inevitable. Especially in the realm of technology, most items will be obsolete by way of natural advancement within a few years.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
------
Yes, agreed on the technology side.
On the "cheap as hell, let's keep production rolling by any means necessary" side, armies of pocket protectors labor into the night determining the exact number of minutes your refrigerator must run to keep daddy's yacht staffed.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
------
Yes, agreed on the technology side.
On the "cheap as hell, let's keep production rolling by any means necessary" side, armies of pocket protectors labor into the night determining the exact number of minutes your refrigerator must run to keep daddy's yacht staffed.
Posted by: The guy with the hair at December 05, 2016 02:02 PM (zAEs4)
331
Tariffs? Why can't we talk about important stuff like Zionist Sperm Banks?
https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview/status/805831949331873792
Posted by: The Elders of Zion at December 05, 2016 01:57 PM (vBeA5)
Why do they call them banks? Every time I go there, I make a deposit, I NEVER make withdrawals, and I don't get any interest!
*rimshot*
https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview/status/805831949331873792
Posted by: The Elders of Zion at December 05, 2016 01:57 PM (vBeA5)
Why do they call them banks? Every time I go there, I make a deposit, I NEVER make withdrawals, and I don't get any interest!
*rimshot*
Posted by: Shecky the Catskills Comedian at December 05, 2016 02:02 PM (TOk1P)
332
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:58 PM (6IPEM
???????
As you type that on a computer likely built in asia?
???????
As you type that on a computer likely built in asia?
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:02 PM (dzmBR)
333
Trump peeled substantial union rank and file votes though. And what's good for the union Rank and file (tariffs and minimum wage bumps) is NOT good for me.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist
________
But it's a political coalition that is needed to actually win elections.
Even if I did believe in the sanctity of "free trade" I think the whole package of conservatives owning the White House is worth looking at swapping some tariff increases for company tax relief.
Without the Rust Belt, the Democrats will own this country for the next several generations.
I'll gladly see Apple cough up a few extra nickels rather than go down with the ship.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist
________
But it's a political coalition that is needed to actually win elections.
Even if I did believe in the sanctity of "free trade" I think the whole package of conservatives owning the White House is worth looking at swapping some tariff increases for company tax relief.
Without the Rust Belt, the Democrats will own this country for the next several generations.
I'll gladly see Apple cough up a few extra nickels rather than go down with the ship.
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 02:02 PM (LrdVd)
334
I see it as a huge problem that China uses slave labor.
I see it as a huge problem that China has no compunction whatsoever about destroying the environment and I mean actual toxic pollution not "climate change" garbage.
I see it as a huge problem that China is a brutal dictatorship that has no qualms about merely up and displacing swaths of its subjects in order to make "everything else".
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
Really can't agree enough with this.
I see it as a huge problem that China has no compunction whatsoever about destroying the environment and I mean actual toxic pollution not "climate change" garbage.
I see it as a huge problem that China is a brutal dictatorship that has no qualms about merely up and displacing swaths of its subjects in order to make "everything else".
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
Really can't agree enough with this.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (6JL3d)
335
So the right has adopted "globalists" as the preferred bogeyman along with the left. It's much easier if it's a nefarious glob of evil doers - but kinda like railing against "economists" - because a global market exists for all things whether you like it or not ... what's next? "Bankers" "new York money men"?
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
336
The history of Ireland since it won independence proves the point as Ireland has already moved from the bottom of the Second World to a place in the First.
Ireland was never in the Second World, which was the Communist nations (not the second division of the First World).
Ireland was never in the Second World, which was the Communist nations (not the second division of the First World).
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (SRKgf)
337
Wages in China have risen, so SH is, unsurprisingly, wrong about how they'll always be cheaper. Also, the SH types never have an explanation of how non-smart people will get along in a society where the only jobs are brain-work jobs for the smarties (and pundit jobs, I suppose, for the connected SHs).
At least liberals who are giddy about automating away all human labor or simply expecting there to eternally exist a bunch of cheaper foreigners...somewhere want to hand non-smart people a big basic income check.
At least liberals who are giddy about automating away all human labor or simply expecting there to eternally exist a bunch of cheaper foreigners...somewhere want to hand non-smart people a big basic income check.
Posted by: TPC at December 05, 2016 02:04 PM (OtOWt)
338
Trumps gonna be the biggest labor guy in the White House maybe since Roosevelt lol
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:04 PM (vhbai)
339
I see it as a huge problem that China uses slave labor.
I see it as a huge problem that China has no compunction whatsoever about destroying the environment and I mean actual toxic pollution not "climate change" garbage.
I see it as a huge problem that China is a brutal dictatorship that has no qualms about merely up and displacing swaths of its subjects in order to make "everything else".
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
Really can't agree enough with this.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal
Yeah. And according to some, "steady as she goes, full speed ahead!" is the correct course.
I see it as a huge problem that China has no compunction whatsoever about destroying the environment and I mean actual toxic pollution not "climate change" garbage.
I see it as a huge problem that China is a brutal dictatorship that has no qualms about merely up and displacing swaths of its subjects in order to make "everything else".
You see, the Chinese do view human beings as mere economic units. I find that to be an abomination.
Posted by: alexthechick - Skittle fueled Godzillette at December 05, 2016 01:44 PM (mf5HN)
Really can't agree enough with this.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal
Yeah. And according to some, "steady as she goes, full speed ahead!" is the correct course.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 05, 2016 02:05 PM (v0qEa)
340
I saw Zionist Sperm Bank open for Madonna at Wembley in '03.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 02:05 PM (X6fMO)
341
Free Trade helps everyone in general, and harms some in particular. It's only adult to discuss whether we want somewhat less than perfect efficiency in exchange for better work for our fellow citizens.
Posted by: Grump928(C) Native Texan and Alabama Alumn, twice as smug as you at December 05, 2016 02:06 PM (0F67M)
342
340 I saw Zionist Sperm Bank open for Madonna at Wembley in '03.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 02:05 PM (X6fMO)
Shouldn't that be the other way around?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 02:05 PM (X6fMO)
Shouldn't that be the other way around?
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 02:06 PM (+fX0t)
343
Posted by: Maritime at December 05, 2016 02:02 PM (LrdVd
I'm not a fan of unilateral disarmament in Trade like many libertarians. AtC's points are very salient and I think can be used to craft a trade policy that is targeted to address said issues.
Relatedly we can't just let companies engage in "dumping" as a way to shut down American companies and then reap profits.
That being said, Trump isn't engaging in a trade policy he's shooting wildly at what he thinks is a target.
I'm not a fan of unilateral disarmament in Trade like many libertarians. AtC's points are very salient and I think can be used to craft a trade policy that is targeted to address said issues.
Relatedly we can't just let companies engage in "dumping" as a way to shut down American companies and then reap profits.
That being said, Trump isn't engaging in a trade policy he's shooting wildly at what he thinks is a target.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:08 PM (dzmBR)
344
So the right has adopted "globalists" as the preferred bogeyman along with the left. It's much easier if it's a nefarious glob of evil doers - but kinda like railing against "economists" - because a global market exists for all things whether you like it or not ... what's next? "Bankers" "new York money men"?
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
I'm rehearsing the "Cross of Gold" speech so that I can properly denounce the plutocrats and the Trusts.
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
I'm rehearsing the "Cross of Gold" speech so that I can properly denounce the plutocrats and the Trusts.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 02:08 PM (hLRSq)
345
Shouldn't that be the other way around?
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 02:06 PM (+fX0t)
------
I thought Madonna *was* the Zionist sperm bank?
Posted by: Insomniac at December 05, 2016 02:06 PM (+fX0t)
------
I thought Madonna *was* the Zionist sperm bank?
Posted by: The guy with the hair at December 05, 2016 02:10 PM (zAEs4)
346
As you type that on a computer likely built in asia?
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:02 PM (dzmBR)
*****
See. I think of computers and smart phones and flat screens as luxury items that you should have to save up for. Not commodities that should be affordable to the poor.
That's why we have Obamaphones.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:02 PM (dzmBR)
*****
See. I think of computers and smart phones and flat screens as luxury items that you should have to save up for. Not commodities that should be affordable to the poor.
That's why we have Obamaphones.
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 02:10 PM (6IPEM)
347
I would certain diminish my lifestyle by 5% to get full employment. By 50%? No. Where the cut off is would be a subject for discussion.
Posted by: Grump928(C) Native Texan and Alabama Alumn, twice as smug as you at December 05, 2016 02:11 PM (0F67M)
348
>>This is my guess. It's negotiating positioning to get what he actually wants.
Who is he negotiating with? The House has already rolled out their tax and reform proposals that are pretty much inline with Trump's proposals such as they are.
Cut corporate taxes, gut endless regulations, allow businesses to more rapidly write off capital purchases, etc. Do these things, which Congress seems onboard with, and there is no need for broad based tariffs which are a terrible idea.
Who is he negotiating with? The House has already rolled out their tax and reform proposals that are pretty much inline with Trump's proposals such as they are.
Cut corporate taxes, gut endless regulations, allow businesses to more rapidly write off capital purchases, etc. Do these things, which Congress seems onboard with, and there is no need for broad based tariffs which are a terrible idea.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 05, 2016 02:11 PM (/tuJf)
349
I'm rehearsing the "Cross of Gold" speech so that I can properly denounce the plutocrats and the Trusts.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 02:08 PM (hLRSq)
"Rootless cosmopolitans"
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 02:08 PM (hLRSq)
"Rootless cosmopolitans"
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 02:11 PM (X6fMO)
350
>>344
So the right has adopted "globalists" as the preferred bogeyman along
with the left. It's much easier if it's a nefarious glob of evil doers -
but kinda like railing against "economists" - because a global market
exists for all things whether you like it or not ... what's next?
"Bankers" "new York money men"?
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
"Bond company stooges."
So the right has adopted "globalists" as the preferred bogeyman along
with the left. It's much easier if it's a nefarious glob of evil doers -
but kinda like railing against "economists" - because a global market
exists for all things whether you like it or not ... what's next?
"Bankers" "new York money men"?
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
"Bond company stooges."
Posted by: Zod Zissou at December 05, 2016 02:11 PM (Bdeb0)
351
It's also just astonishing how work that free trade fiends can't even do is just labelled "Brain dead" and "they get paid tooooo much!!!!" with zero awareness. While they post during business hours to a political blog.
Posted by: TPC at December 05, 2016 02:13 PM (OtOWt)
352
>>what's next?
"Bankers" "new York money men"?
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
"Dog muck." "Thieving kids." "Crusty jugglers."
"Bankers" "new York money men"?
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
"Dog muck." "Thieving kids." "Crusty jugglers."
Posted by: Zod Fuzz at December 05, 2016 02:13 PM (Bdeb0)
Posted by: Grump928(C) Native Texan and Alabama Alumn, twice as smug as you at December 05, 2016 02:14 PM (0F67M)
354
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 01:58 PM (6IPEM)
You may be willing to, but the vast majority of us will buy the cheaper of functionally equivalent options. There's good reason that far more people patronize Wal-mart and Costco instead of buying from local farmers, tailors, cobblers, smiths etc (if they even exist near you). Are you willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars more on a tv, fridge, dishwasher, and car just because they are made here and not in South Korea? Even if that means you can no longer afford one of them? Most people will not take that trade-off.
For food items, labor is sometimes a factor (Mexicans harvesting tomatoes and strawberries is cheaper in Mexico than it is here, even when paid under the table), but that's often due to the varying climates. South American imports mean summer produce can be sold in the US in winter, and Mexico has a longer growing season for many types of food because they are closer to the equator.
You may be willing to, but the vast majority of us will buy the cheaper of functionally equivalent options. There's good reason that far more people patronize Wal-mart and Costco instead of buying from local farmers, tailors, cobblers, smiths etc (if they even exist near you). Are you willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars more on a tv, fridge, dishwasher, and car just because they are made here and not in South Korea? Even if that means you can no longer afford one of them? Most people will not take that trade-off.
For food items, labor is sometimes a factor (Mexicans harvesting tomatoes and strawberries is cheaper in Mexico than it is here, even when paid under the table), but that's often due to the varying climates. South American imports mean summer produce can be sold in the US in winter, and Mexico has a longer growing season for many types of food because they are closer to the equator.
Posted by: Sjg at December 05, 2016 02:14 PM (gDSJf)
355
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 02:10 PM (6IPEM
That's an absurd straw man. I'm not saying "Everyone deserves a free computer!" but it CANNOT be argued that we haven't benefited from lower cost personal computers. And that's just the example I grabbed at hand. What about appliances like refrigerators. Are those luxuries? Even if *assembled* in the US, many of the constituent parts are made abroad for lower costs.
You're "dollar store" argument is just factually wrong.
That's an absurd straw man. I'm not saying "Everyone deserves a free computer!" but it CANNOT be argued that we haven't benefited from lower cost personal computers. And that's just the example I grabbed at hand. What about appliances like refrigerators. Are those luxuries? Even if *assembled* in the US, many of the constituent parts are made abroad for lower costs.
You're "dollar store" argument is just factually wrong.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:14 PM (dzmBR)
356
I've got that queasy feeling coming on again. I knew we wouldn't win.
Winning an election is not the same as actually winning, if the guy who won is actually against you
This that whole "be careful what you wish for" thing Mom always warned me about?
Winning an election is not the same as actually winning, if the guy who won is actually against you
This that whole "be careful what you wish for" thing Mom always warned me about?
Posted by: Chi - #FreeCthulhu at December 05, 2016 02:16 PM (dcwyv)
357
@347, it's not going to be 50%. It's like food, which is *already getting more expensive* even though it's still mostly produced via industrial, heavily corporate agriculture. So moving to a more robust food system with more regional distribution and local labor would raise prices, but even there you wouldn't see a doubling of prices.
We have to give up something. We can all pay a little more and have less stuff that is well-made and lasts, and revive the old trades of repair and maintenance. Or we can keep pretending we won't be staring down the barrel of basic income as more and more jobs are automated (via the government picking winners with trade policies and regulations that reward doing so).
We have to give up something. We can all pay a little more and have less stuff that is well-made and lasts, and revive the old trades of repair and maintenance. Or we can keep pretending we won't be staring down the barrel of basic income as more and more jobs are automated (via the government picking winners with trade policies and regulations that reward doing so).
Posted by: TPC at December 05, 2016 02:17 PM (OtOWt)
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 05, 2016 02:18 PM (X6fMO)
Posted by: Lizzy at December 05, 2016 02:18 PM (NOIQH)
360
I just roll my eyes when Dems enthuse about how a carbon tax is necessary to save us all, while actively and intentionally putting people out of work.
If Trump's policy ideas only had to win the argument "Is this better for us than a carbon tax" they'd all get passed before Inauguration Day.
If Trump's policy ideas only had to win the argument "Is this better for us than a carbon tax" they'd all get passed before Inauguration Day.
Posted by: Halfwise at December 05, 2016 02:18 PM (rB/gm)
361
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:14 PM (dzmBR)
*****
Maybe factually wrong.
But that's how my parents dealt with life. They had to save up for a color tv and to get a nicer refrigerator with an ice maker and the down payment for a car. Financing makes all those kind of things affordable and easier to acquire now. Its a different economy now but it worked for a long time for my parents generation. Idk, we get cheap stuff is nice, I guess. It comes at a human cost though.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:14 PM (dzmBR)
*****
Maybe factually wrong.
But that's how my parents dealt with life. They had to save up for a color tv and to get a nicer refrigerator with an ice maker and the down payment for a car. Financing makes all those kind of things affordable and easier to acquire now. Its a different economy now but it worked for a long time for my parents generation. Idk, we get cheap stuff is nice, I guess. It comes at a human cost though.
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 02:21 PM (6IPEM)
362
Maybe, just maybe, the pendulum needs to swing back the other way for a bit.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Give the Gift of Griping with a Fine Prfidious Present from the Outrage Outlet! at December 05, 2016 02:23 PM (hLRSq)
363
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 02:21 PM (6IPEM
I'm not arguing there's not a human cost. But your narrow view is almost luddite!
And even under a tighter less global system we still had a great depression.
Economies are going to change whether we want to or not. As I said, I'm not anti-tariff broadly, but Trump's implementation amounts to unions picking my pocket for absurd wages.
I'm not arguing there's not a human cost. But your narrow view is almost luddite!
And even under a tighter less global system we still had a great depression.
Economies are going to change whether we want to or not. As I said, I'm not anti-tariff broadly, but Trump's implementation amounts to unions picking my pocket for absurd wages.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at December 05, 2016 02:28 PM (dzmBR)
364
326 All we get out of our brilliant free trade deals is crap that we buy at the dollar store.
Posted by: L, Elle
--------------------
Where else am I supposed to find a necktie to fit a minpin?
Dollar stores serve a purpose, you know!
Posted by: L, Elle
--------------------
Where else am I supposed to find a necktie to fit a minpin?
Dollar stores serve a purpose, you know!
Posted by: Chi - #FreeCthulhu at December 05, 2016 02:30 PM (dcwyv)
365
Haha. I confess to being a Luddite.
Anyway, we got way willowed
Anyway, we got way willowed
Posted by: L, Elle at December 05, 2016 02:31 PM (6IPEM)
366
Posted by: TPC at December 05, 2016 02:17 PM (OtOWt)
You're forgetting that this will eliminate a lot of competition in those markets. The well made stuff that lasts is a premium over the cheap stuff now, but the cheap stuff will get more expensive if it even is still available, and the well made stuff that lasts will be an even higher premium over those.
Electronics and appliances for example: your computer, phones, printers, monitors, hard drives, tv's, stereos, refrigerators, dishwashers could all see some very substantial cost increases without international trade. There's a lot of very specialized economies in Japan, Taiwan, China, South Korea and others with a large comparative advantage. US manufacturing picking up the slack means moving industries away from areas where we had comparative advantages. It's even possible that American manufacturers couldn't even compete against 35% tariffs for some of those products or their components. Which would mean that that 35% tariffs is passed on in full to American consumers. Congrats on giving the feds more money to expand their bloat.
You're forgetting that this will eliminate a lot of competition in those markets. The well made stuff that lasts is a premium over the cheap stuff now, but the cheap stuff will get more expensive if it even is still available, and the well made stuff that lasts will be an even higher premium over those.
Electronics and appliances for example: your computer, phones, printers, monitors, hard drives, tv's, stereos, refrigerators, dishwashers could all see some very substantial cost increases without international trade. There's a lot of very specialized economies in Japan, Taiwan, China, South Korea and others with a large comparative advantage. US manufacturing picking up the slack means moving industries away from areas where we had comparative advantages. It's even possible that American manufacturers couldn't even compete against 35% tariffs for some of those products or their components. Which would mean that that 35% tariffs is passed on in full to American consumers. Congrats on giving the feds more money to expand their bloat.
Posted by: Sjg at December 05, 2016 02:37 PM (gDSJf)
367
We assume that Trump won't carry through with his promises because politicians never carry through with their promises. We know from experience to discount those politician's promises as campaign puffery.
Trump isn't a politician - he really means what he says. Unlike politicians - business men have to carry through with their public promises or suffer the consequences.
Trump isn't a politician - he really means what he says. Unlike politicians - business men have to carry through with their public promises or suffer the consequences.
Posted by: An Observation at December 05, 2016 02:42 PM (BZQf5)
368
WTF is up with all the panic over Trump? He's not even in office yet and I sure as hell don't trust the media to be honest.
I will panic when it is time. Not before.
I will panic when it is time. Not before.
Posted by: Tilikum KAW at December 05, 2016 02:47 PM (+aCe4)
369
Posted by: Jen at December 05, 2016 12:54 PM (be9L9)
Thanks Jen for the facts. Left you a note on other thread. Mine was just a rant about Stein and her well connected lawyer. You are so right about Article V conventions.
Thanks Jen for the facts. Left you a note on other thread. Mine was just a rant about Stein and her well connected lawyer. You are so right about Article V conventions.
Posted by: gracepc at December 05, 2016 02:49 PM (OU4q6)
370
So the right has adopted "globalists" as the preferred bogeyman along with the left. It's much easier if it's a nefarious glob of evil doers - but kinda like railing against "economists" - because a global market exists for all things whether you like it or not ... what's next? "Bankers" "new York money men"?
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
That's pretty stupid. Globalists are people who do not believe int he concept of the nation-state and national sovereignty. They are idiots, along with being destructive. Their goal is to destroy any and all national boundaries. That, in a word, is retarded.
This is not a matter of "boogeymen". To say so just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. The United States was founded on the notion of national sovereignty. Without the concept of the nation-state you have no United States.
I guess you think that the concept of the nation-state is a silly notion that only lunatics would endorse ...
Posted by: Random Joe at December 05, 2016 02:03 PM (vhbai)
That's pretty stupid. Globalists are people who do not believe int he concept of the nation-state and national sovereignty. They are idiots, along with being destructive. Their goal is to destroy any and all national boundaries. That, in a word, is retarded.
This is not a matter of "boogeymen". To say so just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. The United States was founded on the notion of national sovereignty. Without the concept of the nation-state you have no United States.
I guess you think that the concept of the nation-state is a silly notion that only lunatics would endorse ...
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 05, 2016 02:52 PM (zc3Db)
371
Liberals have largely absorbed the argument that this would raise prices for the poor and abandoned the unions.
Posted by: MikeN at December 05, 2016 05:25 PM (o/eHL)
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