GAINZday Thread: Why Eat Less, Move More Doesn't Work

In last week's GAINZDay thread, zombie asked a fair question: If your new diet is taking so long to work, doesn't that suggest the standard dietary advice of eat less, exercise more is just as good, if not better?

I responded in the comments, but not fully, and not with anything but my own assertions.

Let me address the question more fully here.

First of all, you have to understand why I was in a stall, and why my weight loss has been much slower lately.

I didn't begin this thread when I began the diet. I've gained and lost weight a bunch of times over the years. I've dropped 40 pounds on some regimens (after I put on a huge amount of weight and decided: I can't stay like this. I look monstrous).

Having lost weight before, I know what amount of weight is easy for me to lose: about 20-25 pounds.

A lot of weight programs will promise you'll lose 10 pounds in the first 30 days, or you get your money back.

Here's the thing: That's an extraordinarily easy promise to make. 90% of the time people will lose that amount of weight in 30 days no matter what regime they're on. Ten pounds is easy-peasy. Ten pounds is the somewhat-temporary overweight you gain when you're eating poorly above and beyond your normal level of overweight.

It comes off fast. The heavier you are, the easier that first ten pounds is to lose. And the more recent your last ten pounds of added weight was gained, the quicker it will come off.

Everyone's body has a set point of where it wants to be, weight-wise, based on the hypothalamus and insulin sensitivity and so on. Sometimes people who are already fat get into a bad habit of overeating even more, and throw on more weight.

Let's call that weight excess-excess. It's excess weight on top of your normally-carried excess weight.

Excess-excess weight comes off pretty easily, no matter what diet you're on. Tim Ferriss, in fact, suggests that the No Diet Diet might work to take of the excess-excess weight. If all you do is keep a record of what you eat, a detailed journal, then without attempting any particular regime, most people will lose weight, simply because they're being mindful of what they eat.

Without any particular diet goal -- just keeping diet in mind for a month -- you'll probably drop 5 pounds. Who knows -- add some vigorous walking and you'll drop that ten pounds.

Anyway, the point is, I didn't start this thread when I began my diet. I started this thread when I lost the first 25 pounds of excess-excess weight, which I know from past experience are the easy, gimme pounds I can lose in a couple of months by going low-carb.

I started this thread because I know -- from having lost significant amounts of weight before -- that once I get down to 180, which is my normal weight, without any excess-excess fat baggage strapped on top of it -- just the fat I've been carrying pretty much uninterrupted since I was 15 -- that not only does each additional pound get harder to shed, but it's around this point in time that I get bored and stop the regime.

So I didn't start this thread to lose the easily shed pounds.

I started the thread as an accountability thread to lose the hard-to-shed pounds that I previously had never really lost. Even when I was an active athlete (or let's say "athlete" -- I was never any good at anything) in high school.

My stall and my current rate of weight loss (somewhere under a pound a week) are bothersome, and frustrating, but you have to keep in mind: I lost the first 25 pounds of the gimme stuff before I ever posted at all.

I wouldn't brag about that or put up a thread about it because I've always known the first 25 pounds (for me) are a walk in the park. There's not really any question to me that I can drop that in 60 days.

The question I'm trying to figure out is: Can I drop the next 15 pounds of body fat? The tough stuff? The fat I've had stored in fat cells since before I lost my virginity?

My goal here is not to get back to my normal level of overweight. I already did that before starting the thread.

My goal here is to get where I've frankly never been in my life: to normal weight, to 18-20% bodyfat or so. And who knows, maybe lower.

Anyway, I'm not sure if zombie understood that. I lost 25 pounds before the first posting -- didn't mention it, didn't seem important. The thread is about the final 15 pounds of weight. I got rid of the excess-excess fat. Now I want to get rid of the excess fat, not the excess excess, just the normal excess.

Now, as to whether Eat Less Move More works:

Yes it does. A long time ago I lost 40 pounds on that type of diet. However, I was in school, and could afford to blow off classes for almost all of a semester in order to run, swim, and weight-train six days a week with multiple sessions (usually two, but a fair number of triple workouts) per day.

Unfortunately, very few people can spend three hours on exercise a day for six days a week.

And as far as diet: I felt it. I never stopped thinking about food. I dreamed about food. I would be a party, talking to a hot girl, and my mind would be focused singluarly on the canape in her hand, and not in her body.

Just the delicious food she was shoving into her body. I didn't want to be the party weinie her mouth; I wanted to be her mouth.

So, low sex drive. High food drive. Food was far more tempting and erotic.

It was pretty grueling, and it was entirely unsustainable. I suppose I could have maintained this weight level (somewhere around 170 -- svelte and lean for me, normal weight for others) if I did the occasional "triple" (run five miles/swim a mile/weight train) and otherwise kept up the 2-3 hours of exercise per day for six days a week regime.

But who can? No one except professional athletes whose work day consists of such training could.

Yes, Eat Less Move More will in fact work -- for a while. But you simply cannot exert yourself that much forever -- not when you have a job -- and you really cannot live with the gnawing, stressful feeling of always being hungry every single hour of every single day.

The effectiveness of a regime depends greatly on adherence to the regime. If you can't adhere to it, it simply won't work -- even if the math of calories in calories out looks good on paper.

Thorazine is very effective at keeping schizophrenics mentally normal -- except the fact that it zeroes them out and makes them feel like zombies and they stop taking thorazine the moment the doctor isn't looking.

For that matter, an actual starvation "diet" -- not the semi-starvation diet recommended by doctors, but a genuine starvation diet -- will also cause you to lose a lot of weight. As it must, of course.

Like this guy. He did not eat for over a year, except for potassium supplements and multivitamins.

Did it work? Of course. It must. He wasn't eating. He had to burn fat or die.

In 1965, an extremely obese 27-year-old male, weighing in at 456 pounds fasted for 382 days (one year and 17 days) and lost 275.5 pounds.
Doctors from the University of Dundee monitored his condition throughout his fast. During his fast, he obese man recorded low glucose levels for 100 days and defecated every 40 to 50 days. He was given potassium tablets to keep his heart healthy and multi-vitamins every day.

However, while that undeniably worked (and would work, for anyone else who tries it) -- who can realistically adhere to that diet of simply not eating?

Yeah he lost 275 pounds -- because he did not eat any food for 382 days.

The semi-starvation diet promoted by doctors is kind of the same thing. You're going to be hungry all the time. You're going to have low energy. You're going to be mentally fuzzy -- not just because you're distracted by the discomfort of craving food, but because your brain is in an energy-restricted state.

And there are other problems, too -- because the body fights to keep weight on, even when you're eating a low number of calories, by reducing the amount of energy you expend during the day and night.

One of the Biggest Loser contestants was asked why there are no Biggest Losers Reunion Shows. They'd be good for ratings, right? People love reality tv show reunions.

The reason there are no reunion shows, this contestant said, is because all of the returning contestants are fat again, and this would be bad for the show's ratings overall.

Jason Fung looked at the data and saw that, in fact, almost every Biggest Loser contestant -- who lost a lot of weight on a somewhat extreme Eat Less Move More plan -- had gained almost all of their weight back.

Why? Because when the body doesn't have a lot of calories coming in, it begins instituting cutbacks in the energy expended.

So why did all those Biggest Loser contestants gain all their weight back after 6 months? Why do all the Eat Less Move More patients gain all their weight back after 6 months? This is essentially the same question. The simple answer is that metabolic adaptations cause that regain. Specifically, metabolism slows down in response to Caloric Reduction. You start to burn less energy. Your metabolism shuts down.
Let’s see what happened to the Biggest Losers. Virtually all of the contestants slowed down their Resting Metabolic Rates (RMR). The energy they use over 24 hours doing no exercise drops significantly. This is energy that is needed to keep the heart pumping, the lungs breathing, your brain thinking, your kidneys detoxing etc. – your basic metabolism. It drops. Like a piano out of a 20 storey building.
To give you a sense of the magnitude of the drop, from start to week 30, the RMR dropped by 789 calories on average. Now that’s not quite accurate, because as your body weight drops, the RMR is also expected to drop. That is, carrying around all that extra fat still takes some energy. If you correct for this weight loss related drop in RMR, though, there is still an excess of 504 calories drop. That is, their metabolism is burning 500 calories less per day than expected correcting for their new, lower weight.BiggestLoser4
But can’t you make up for this decreased in RMR by increasing exercise? Well, no. Despite a massive increase in the amount of exercise performed by contestants, it was simply not enough to overcome the drastic slowdown in metabolism.
Once you stop having Jillian Michaels screaming in your ear about how she doesn’t care if you die on the treadmill, the amount of exercise gradually decreases which further exacerbates the weight regain. From week 6 to week 30, physical exertion goes down. But resting energy expenditure (your metabolism) continues its slide downhill. A double whammy.
As you start burning less energy at rest and burn less energy doing exercise, you get the very familiar weight plateau. The weight loss simply stops because your body has shut down to match the lowered caloric intake. Once expenditure drops below intake, you start the even more familiar weight regain. Ba Bam! Weight regain. Goodbye reunion show."

You can read more about the Biggest Loser contestants' re-gain here. The New York Times article about the contestants' re-gains is here.

It's not just that you wind up moving less -- as zombie pointed out, someone with a truly heroic level of willpower could force himself, despite every instinct in his body, to keep exercising despite a reduced caloric intake.

The trouble is, the body doesn't just spend its energy budget on purposeful movement. It spends it on almost-involuntary movement.

Ever notice that thin people are often fidgety? They're expending calories during the day just by tapping their fingers and pumping their knees up and down at their desk.

I've tried to do that -- on a voluntary basis. I've tried to will myself to be fidgety like a thin person.

Doesn't work. You can't make yourself do something that is essentially an involuntary motor response.

And when the body metabolism slows, it also cuts the budget of a very, very big part of the energy expenditure business -- maintaining core body temperature. A huge amount of anyone's incoming calories are burned simply to maintain their body temperature -- people lose weight in cold climates, for example. (If they're actually exposed to the elements and must work outside. If they're just sitting inside in a warm room, they won't lose weight.)

And there's no amount of willpower a person can use to force his hypothalamus to not cut his core body temperature from, say, an average of 98.6 down to 98.2 as it attempts to economize on the stingy number of calories it has to spend on basic metabolic functions.

You'll live at 98.2 with no problem -- but you might feel cold. And you will also, without quite knowing why, find that cutting your calories by 500 per day is no longer causing weight loss.

Like Jason Fung says -- if you have to take a drastic pay cut, from $100,000 to $50,000, do you think you'll keep spending money as if you were making $100,000? For a little while -- and that's where you'll actually get your weight loss, when you're taking in $50,000 in calories but still spending at the $100,000 rate.

But little by little, you'll adapt to this new change in budget. Your body will tighten its calorie budget belt, and the effect in the real world will be that you're no longer tightening your actual belt around your pants. Your body will have found a new equilibrium at minus 500 calories, and that will be your new just-maintaining weight.

Point is, Fung's recommendation of Low Carb High Fat combined with short duration starvation (the intermittent fast) is designed to keep your metabolism up at the $100,000 rate, while actually on the $50,000 budget.

And if you stay on that long enough -- even while only losing a half a pound of fat per week -- you will reach your goal weight, in time.

And that's the trick -- time.

This plan seems easier to maintain, so I have hopes I can stay on it.

But we'll have to see. I'm experimenting with this. I don't have the data collected yet.

They say that war comes down to three things: Willpower, firepower, and staying power.

Eat Less is willpower, Move More is firepower.

But it's hard to maintain staying power on this regime, and any serious weight loss that really sticks is going to take at least a year's worth of staying power.

Staying power is everything, I think. You can't just lose weight and then go back to your old patterns of overeating and under-moving and expect you'll maintain at your lower weight. You won't. You'll regain.

To actually do the trick, you have to stick with it for a year or two or, ideally, the rest of your life.

I think Fung's regime is sustainable forever. Oh I slip up here and there, and I get lazy and I get indulgent, but I've kept at this now for, I don't know, six months or so, and it's not getting harder. It's not particularly hard at all. It's a bit hard, but not Oh God I Need to Eat Now hard.

But as long as one stays motivated and accountable -- which is the whole point of this thread for me, to sort of embarrass myself into staying strict -- I think it can be maintained.

Will it work? Eh, I know the Low Carb High Fat thing works. I know Intermittent Fasting certainly seems to make it work more.

But can I sustain it until I'm actually at my goal weight at around 165 or so?

I don't know. I do know the pure Eat Less Move More plan will not work past 60 or 90 says, because it's just too hard to maintain.

Posted by: Ace at 05:37 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 What about your GAAAAAAIIINNNZZZ?

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at October 31, 2016 05:38 PM (W/37V)

2 first? hot damn!

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at October 31, 2016 05:38 PM (W/37V)

3 you need to eat to lose......but you need to eat the right food at the right time

Posted by: phoenixgirl, gird up your loins, this is not the time to go wobbly at October 31, 2016 05:39 PM (0O7c5)

4 btw......eating a bag of reece's peanut butter cups will give you gains.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl, gird up your loins, this is not the time to go wobbly at October 31, 2016 05:39 PM (0O7c5)

5 Must be a good movie.

Posted by: DJ Jazzy Mel at October 31, 2016 05:41 PM (75WaT)

6 My set point appears to be 10 pounds more than it was 20 years ago, damnit.

In other news I need blood. Fresh blood.

Posted by: Votermom the Deplorable @vm on Gab.ai at October 31, 2016 05:41 PM (Om16U)

7 "Without any particular diet goal -- just keeping diet in mind for a month -- you'll probably drop 5 pounds."

This technique will work in every area of your life.

Posted by: Meremortal, Bigly Matters... at October 31, 2016 05:42 PM (3myMJ)

8 >>" I've dropped 40 pounds on some regimens (after I put on a huge amount of weight and decided: I can't stay like this. I look too Plush)."

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 05:42 PM (fzPrG)

9 I've had my Fitbit since August and have been trying to move more (started jogging again) and be more mindful of what I eat, so smaller portions, not as much snacking but still enjoying my food and eating out and having desserts occasionally. I have gone from a size 8-10 to 6-8 dress size and I am happy! So that is my GAINZZZ...

Posted by: IC at October 31, 2016 05:42 PM (a0IVu)

10 >>btw......eating a bag of reece's peanut butter cups will give you gains.....

...eating too many Fat Free Gummie Bears will give you STAINZ.

Posted by: Al Roker at October 31, 2016 05:43 PM (fzPrG)

11 >>>>1 What about your GAAAAAAIIINNNZZZ?

I bounce around. I was delighted to drop to 176 again, but now I seem to have bounced back up to 179 as of today.

Again, it seems to depend on whether I just worked out hard the night before.

I didn't work out over the weekend, except very lightly. Just some keep-your-hand-in-it stuff.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:45 PM (8rNrN)

12 Yo!

Posted by: Yo! at October 31, 2016 05:45 PM (GwIKd)

13 When you make it to 165, what arae you going to do with all that extra skin?

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 05:45 PM (fzPrG)

14 I've said it before: I gained 14 pounds in one long weekend. From Friday Morning to Monday Night. In a week, I had dropped 13 of those.

This week, I lost about 1 pound. I've lost 10# in the past eight weeks, so fasting continues to work for me. Not doing LCHF, though. I could probably do better.

I was happy to have lost any since I've had to eat more frequently in the past week, and I'm in a situation where that's going to be true for the next few months.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 05:45 PM (7zeA4)

15 I've found my body has a 'weight' it wants to be at...

I'm 6 Ft even.... and 57 years old... I've weighed between 205 and 220 since I was 25 years old...

This includes periods of my life where I was in the military and working out just about every day....

To years in Denver where I hiked, biked, skied, or ran almost every day...

To times where I was into competitive Historic sword fighting and training 5 days a week...

To times when I was injured... and not able to work out at all...

My body COMPOSITION changes.... more or less muscles... more or less fat...

But my weight doesn't... no matter how hard I work out, or diet...

Posted by: Don Q at October 31, 2016 05:46 PM (qf6WZ)

16 I need to get mindful of how I eat on the weekends. And I need to get out of the office for some metabolism boosting soon.

Posted by: PaleRider at October 31, 2016 05:46 PM (dkExz)

17 One of the things I remember from my wrestling and BJJ days is how much effort it took to cut weight, you really had to just accept the fact that you were going to suffer, especially when you're body figured out what you were trying to do and locked down every calorie you ate.

Sure, your stomach shrinks after a while and smaller meals (plus a lot of water) makes you feel "full", but getting rid of weight sucks, you're miserable all the time and you start obsessing over all kinds of bad foods. Best to just eat healthy, exercise at a good, steady level and accept the fact that you'll have a little fat around the middle.....

Posted by: Pave Low John at October 31, 2016 05:46 PM (OejZ/)

18 I just sharted. HUMA! HUMA! Oh right, she gone.

Posted by: hil at October 31, 2016 05:47 PM (75WaT)

19 >>>When you make it to 165, what arae you going to do with all that extra skin?

i've looked into that. they say as long as you're not losing it too quickly the skin naturally shrinks down (by attrition -- not replacing now-uneeded extra skin cells) and you look okay.

though I do see some faint scar-like lines around my belly, if I look really hard.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:48 PM (8rNrN)

20 Brazile nut diet ?

Posted by: The Jackhole at October 31, 2016 05:48 PM (M+Lyo)

21 Monday is squat day for me

Benching tomorrow

Posted by: Yo! at October 31, 2016 05:48 PM (GwIKd)

22 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

Sounds about right.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 05:48 PM (8b+oT)

23 >>though I do see some faint scar-like lines around my belly, if I look really hard.

Stretch marks?

Like... a Stripper?

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at October 31, 2016 05:49 PM (fzPrG)

24 Also, in the same vein as this, I posted this on last week's thread after most had left.

Check out Teri's post at the end of that thread, it's inspirational!

---

Finally caught up with everyone! Sounds like a lot of people are doing very well.

And if you're not, don't be afraid to say so: Most people are gonna have setbacks and hearing others (like Ace) say so can be helpful, too.

zombie & banana splits guy:

The fact that you can starve a slave to death isn't really evidence that reducing-calories/increasing-exercise "works" in any meaningful sense. It's a little like saying amputation works for weight loss.

The bulk of almost anyone's* caloric expenditures is going to be BMR and WE DO NOT CONTROL THAT**. So it's not a matter of "consciously exercising" and "eating less". You can work out quite a bit, and if you merely "eat less" your body will compensate by cranking down the metabolism and making it that much harder for you to expend energy.

Well, you say, that doesn't mean you CAN'T do so, as the slave-driven-concentration-camp approach shows, but do you suppose there are really no side effects from that? What vitamins, what muscle, what nerve damage, what else is happening to the guy who, when his body says, "Hey, STOP MOVING," responds with, "Screw you, I'm doing whatever it takes!"?

The idea here is NOT to overwhelm the body--something possible but undesirable in most cases--but to put the body back in tune: To have the decrease in POTENTIAL energy (fat) go hand-in-hand with an increase in ACTUAL energy.

What putting a really fat person on 1,200 calorie diet does (apparently) is tell the body "Make less than 1,200 calories available for elective activity!" This is related to why the working out more at point A almost invariably results in sedentary behavior at all non-A points.

You guys are still buying into the whole "people are awful" view of diet.

*Caveat for pro athletes
** Caveat for certain gurus

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 05:49 PM (7zeA4)

25 I'm calling BS on the guy who didn't eat for a year.

Posted by: Max Power at October 31, 2016 05:49 PM (q177U)

26 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

Good lord. We don't have anything close to being able to handle that.

Posted by: The Scientists at Glade at October 31, 2016 05:50 PM (8b+oT)

27 >>>

Stretch marks?

Like... a Stripper?

...

eh, it appears so. I don't know if they're permanent or what. Pretty light though, and as a dude, I have some hair to cover 'em.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:51 PM (8rNrN)

28
"defecated every 40 to 50 days"

No way I could do that. I'm addicted to the daily dump.

On the plus side he probably saved a bundle on TP and food.

Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 05:51 PM (BO/km)

29 No, its eat smart, move more. Exercise and a smart diet, not "less" because you need the calories to survive and burn in exercise.

I'll stick with the basic: give up one bad food for you at a time, just cut it out of your diet, and get a little more exercise steadily building up and you'll see great long term results. Not some fad trendy exercise from a book.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at October 31, 2016 05:52 PM (39g3+)

30 Seriously, though.

I am impressed. I have never had the ability to break through that wall you are talking about.
I can get to 197. Which isn't bad for me at all, at 6' 2".
But, I know I should be able to get to 185 or so.
Could never aquire the discipline to do it, though.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 05:52 PM (fzPrG)

31 I guess I picked the wrong week to stop eating Halloween candy. I'll stop when it's all gone.

Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 05:53 PM (BO/km)

32 Really hate to differ on this.
I eat a fairly incredible amout a day and never topped 155 at 5-11. I move and do more than most workers around me. I have tried to eat healthy in the last dozen years.

Posted by: Skip at October 31, 2016 05:54 PM (sWbjH)

33 I've lost a lot of weight over the past year or so. I haven't been dieting on purpose but I have had a lot of stress.

I noticed on your story about The Fasting Man that he was taking potassium tablets; probably the type I can't really buy locally without a prescription because all local stores only carry that damn nearly-useless potassium gloconate stuff.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at October 31, 2016 05:54 PM (OHOQN)

34 Perhaps already mentioned above; if so, my apologies. Every Other Day Diet, EODD. 500 cals one day, no restrictions the next day, then 500 next day, and so on. Well documented to work because sustainable.

Books on Amazon.

Posted by: Carmen at October 31, 2016 05:54 PM (RHjCR)

35 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

There once was a guy who could hold it,

for really long times, as he told it.

He sat on the pot,

and then pooped a LOT!

And exclaimed, "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME - SERIOUSLY! CRACK A WINDOW! HOLY SHIT!"

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 05:55 PM (8b+oT)

36 I would be a party, talking to a hot girl, and my mind would be focused singluarly on the canape in her hand, and not in her body.

What kind of an effete, effeminate, ponce school did you go to?

Seven years of kollege and I was never served a single canape at a party.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 05:55 PM (Zu3d9)

37 Skip--sounds like you're NOT insulin resistant.

I have not eaten today despite the availability of free food. One of the things I've noticed is that when I did low-carb but frequent meals, carbs were just the most amazing thing ever.

Yesterday I passed up In 'n' Out for bacon & eggs. It just didn't appeal. Today, I'm not even tempted by candy.

That seems like a big deal.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 05:56 PM (7zeA4)

38 Fun Size.

Nothing Fun about it when the bag is suddenly empty.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 05:57 PM (fzPrG)

39 >>>I can get to 197. Which isn't bad for me at all, at 6' 2".
But, I know I should be able to get to 185 or so.
Could never aquire the discipline to do it, though.

well the Alan Carr book -- The Easy Way to Quit Smoking -- taught me that any regime that relies on willpower is going to fail. Willpower is a limited resource. It's for short bursts, not long hauls.

The only regime one can stick to is one that does not require much willpower.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:57 PM (8rNrN)

40 Adderall will knock off those stubborn pounds.

Women with Tryroid problems will use Syntroid to cut the weight. It only takes a few micrograms more and the felling is like constant waves of adrenaline rushes all damn day.
Syntroid and manipulating the endocrinologists is an open secret.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 05:57 PM (DurKO)

41 The most important part of any diet is the transition period, and people who rebound almost invariably didn't have a good plan (or understand) how to offramp from diet into maintenance.
Good point about fidgety thin people - the human body has evolved over several thousand years to be a phenomenal fat storage device, and to store fat and keep fat stores in times of caloric shortage. Body adjusts well to caloric reduction, there are even triggers that occur for sharp reductions. Mobilization of fat stores, catabolism of muscle tissue, adjustments to basic metabolism. In 90% of people, no similar adjustments for caloric surplus - you just get fat, or put on mix of fat/muscle. The 10% of people whose bodies will actually up regulate metabolism for calorie surplus are just that - naturally thin people.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 05:57 PM (xDi4L)

42 I'm guessing Ace is chubby? Generally, sitting at a computer will do that, and will ruin your posture. Three trips to the gym - cardio 46 minutes and a good hour on the weights will fix that. The biggest problem is working out at night and then being able to fall asleep.

Posted by: Puddin Head at October 31, 2016 05:58 PM (vV/gB)

43 I do think the IF system works. I find myself moving around while waiting for the printer, keurig etc more than I used to. It is much easier to pass on a cookie or whatever late in the evenings when I remind myself. A) you are barely hungry and B) You can have this tomorrow during the eating window if the craving is still there.

Posted by: PaleRider at October 31, 2016 05:58 PM (dkExz)

44 >>>Perhaps already mentioned above; if so, my apologies. Every Other Day Diet, EODD. 500 cals one day, no restrictions the next day, then 500 next day, and so on. Well documented to work because sustainable.

Books on Amazon.

...

yeah, seems to be a popular way to do it. Just for me, I prefer the 16/8 thing because I don't have to think about it or budget for it much.

I do occasionally do 24 hour fasts. Not many recently. Perhaps that's why I've seen fewer GAINZZZ.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:59 PM (8rNrN)

45 I believe diet accounts for 80 percent of weight loss--exercise alone, while maintaining the same diet, would account for about 20 percent. Nutrition is by far more significant for weight loss than exercise; both, however, are necessary. You really can go no farther than the fuel you put into your body.
I also suspect there is value to the discipline of an improved diet--maintaining that discipline is very important to an improved self image and discipline in other areas.

Posted by: Northernlurker at October 31, 2016 05:59 PM (hJrjt)

46 Jillian Michaels is a cvnt

just saying

Posted by: Rick in SK at October 31, 2016 05:59 PM (/CIN4)

47 You lift weights and train and try that low carolie not taking in protein and your body will begin to eat away at your heart.

Bad Idea.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:00 PM (DurKO)

48 >>>Women with Tryroid problems will use Syntroid to cut the weight. It only takes a few micrograms more and the felling is like constant waves of adrenaline rushes all damn day.

I think there was a fitness competitor who supposedly fucked up her thyroid. Alphie something (Newman?). Playing with your hormone systems is dangerous.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 06:00 PM (xDi4L)

49 >>>I'm guessing Ace is chubby?

I've moved down from chubby into somewhat-overweight, I think.

But not hot.

But yeah, my default setting is chubby, and when I pork out, I get into "Actually Genuinely Fat" territory.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:00 PM (8rNrN)

50 GAINZZZ 400k Steps in October and feeling pretty good. I take 16 inches off my waist since July. Might need a new nick soon.

Posted by: Big V at October 31, 2016 06:01 PM (UiqMy)

51 Oh, while I'm spouting off mindlessly I also wanted to add that the body has certain set points, when it comes to weight.

The weight will drop off fairly quickly--followed by a plateau until your body breaks through that set point.

Posted by: Northernlurker at October 31, 2016 06:01 PM (hJrjt)

52 >>I'm guessing Ace is chubby?

Zaftig.

Please.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 06:01 PM (fzPrG)

53 That show the Biggest Loser is a death waiting to happen.

That force feed those people drugs Ile adderall and other shit in mega doses.

I'm surprised nobody has died.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:02 PM (DurKO)

54 >>lift weights and train and try that low carolie not taking in protein and your body will begin to eat away at your heart.

ShakeWeight, Kegels and all the Protein Shakes I can drink.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at October 31, 2016 06:02 PM (fzPrG)

55 Have you considered Ketone supplements as the Staying power?

Posted by: KetoDan at October 31, 2016 06:02 PM (Ay5s1)

56 One thing is I have always been this way. But my metabolism is very high.

Posted by: Skip at October 31, 2016 06:02 PM (sWbjH)

57 >>>I believe diet accounts for 80 percent of weight loss--exercise alone, while maintaining the same diet, would account for about 20 percent. Nutrition is by far more significant for weight loss than exercise; both, however, are necessary. You really can go no farther than the fuel you put into your body.

that's what they say but that's based on by-the-numbers calories in calories out, which we know is wrong, because it doesn't take into account hormonal responses and homeostasis.

But what if exercise spurs the production of more testosterone, which both men and women have of course, and which in both sexes is a "leaning" hormone?

Exercise might not be as small a contributor as calories-in-calories-out suggests.

I don't know. Just speculating.

Definitely nutrition is more important, but I don't know if it's 10:1 in terms of importance (as calories in calories out suggests) or, when hormonal effects are included, more like 3:1.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:03 PM (8rNrN)

58 But, I know I should be able to get to 185 or so.

Could never aquire the discipline to do it, though.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 05:52 PM (fzPrG)

There is a point at which you pass the balance between the pleasure of good food and the desire to lose weight.

I have gained 10-15 pounds past my comfortable weight on a few occasions, and each time it was, as Ace describes, fairly easy to drop back down. But getting to my college weight (when I worked out every day) simply isn't worth it when balanced against the pleasures of gastronomy.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 06:04 PM (Zu3d9)

59 >>>55 Have you considered Ketone supplements as the Staying power?
Posted by: KetoDan

i've read about them but i'm not sure what the point is as far as weight loss -- ideally, the point is to produce your own ketones from body fat, not to just ingest them from outside sources.

The point of them, as I understand it, is to get a competeitive edge in some athletic performance, not as a weight loss aid.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:04 PM (8rNrN)

60 One thing a lot of people don't understand about extremely obese people is that their basal metabolism is extremely low given their weight.

A 500-pound man, unless he's a super heavy weight, weight lifter of sumo wrestler has relatively little muscle. And its muscle that represents the furnace of the body. Fat does not burn calories.

Posted by: Northernlurker at October 31, 2016 06:05 PM (hJrjt)

61 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 06:04 PM (Zu3d9)

That's why I rely heavily on delicious animals that you have to chase through the hills.

I'm all about Balance.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 06:05 PM (fzPrG)

62 My running schedule was thrown off last week and I gave myself some extra rest.

Last Wednesday - cold, drizzling - 1 hour, 25 minutes
Saturday - nice day - 2 hours, 10 minutes.

I'm running the last out-skirt section of town tomorrow and one last park I've missed. It should take me 2 to 2.5 hours. After that I'm heading further out of town.

After the election, I'm going to be doing Body Beast again. I'm doing Yoga exercises most mornings for the glutes as well as some other exercises for calves and quads.

Everyone have a great week.

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at October 31, 2016 06:05 PM (kzrCg)

63 So... did Ace like the movie?

I kid. This is great, ace. Hope you stick with it. Thanks for the yuge explanation.

Posted by: Joe, living mobile at October 31, 2016 06:06 PM (D65xp)

64 Cappy boy is back.

Posted by: Skip at October 31, 2016 06:06 PM (sWbjH)

65 Have your hormones checked and see if you have low testosterone. Can make a huge difference.

We're going to see that become more and more socially acceptable I think.

Posted by: brak at October 31, 2016 06:06 PM (guIHw)

66 This may sound like a cop out, but if you're still doing the Stronglifts routine and making strength gains, you might want to make that your quantifier of success rather than weight loss. For now, at least.

While you don't see dramatic changes in your physique during this time, which is frustrating as shit, you're creating a good muscular foundation under the pudge. The muscle is of course is more dense and heavy that the fat that you're slowly converting, so you're not going to see as much progress on the scale.

Once you stop making the strength gains under the 5x5 program, switch to a higher volume cutting routine to slim down.

Posted by: Xander Crews at October 31, 2016 06:07 PM (Gx9/j)

67 59 >>>I believe diet accounts for 80 percent of weight loss--exercise alone, while maintaining the same diet, would account for about 20 percent. Nutrition is by far more significant for weight loss than exercise; both, however, are necessary. You really can go no farther than the fuel you put into your body.

that's what they say but that's based on by-the-numbers calories in calories out, which we know is wrong, because it doesn't take into account hormonal responses and homeostasis.

But what if exercise spurs the production of more testosterone, which both men and women have of course, and which in both sexes is a "leaning" hormone?

Exercise might not be as small a contributor as calories-in-calories-out suggests.

I don't know. Just speculating.

Definitely nutrition is more important, but I don't know if it's 10:1 in terms of importance (as calories in calories out suggests) or, when hormonal effects are included, more like 3:1.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:03 PM (8rNrN)

You could well be right--the 80 percent is the standard percentage. But, yes, exercise will add muscle, which boosts metabolism. And I think there's also a lingering boost in metabolism after a workout.

Posted by: Northernlurker at October 31, 2016 06:07 PM (hJrjt)

68 36 I would be a party, talking to a hot girl, and my mind would be focused singluarly on the canape in her hand, and not in her body.

What kind of an effete, effeminate, ponce school did you go to?

Seven years of kollege and I was never served a single canape at a party.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 05:55 PM (Zu3d9)

The kind where the men carry messenger bags.

Posted by: Buzzion at October 31, 2016 06:07 PM (z/Ubi)

69 BREAKING and the Fix is in. Posted on Drudge and linked to Zerohedge.

John Podesta's Best Friend At The DOJ Will Be In Charge Of The DOJ's Probe Into Huma Abedin Emails.

Fuck me I'm piased off! The same DOJ that The FBI told to go pound sand pulls this shit!

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:07 PM (DurKO)

70 I have gained 10-15 pounds past my comfortable weight on a few occasions, and each time it was, as Ace describes, fairly easy to drop back down. But getting to my college weight (when I worked out every day) simply isn't worth it when balanced against the pleasures of gastronomy.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 06:04 PM (Zu3d9)

Yup...

My Doctor says I'm supposed to loose weight... but I'm in MUCH better shape than he is... even though he does not weigh much...

I'll outrun, out lift, out fight, him any day of the week...

And my Lady Dulcinea.... who must be insane... thinks I'm hot...

So.... why be miserable to try to get to a weight that is unsustainable without a whole lot of effort?

Posted by: Don Quixote at October 31, 2016 06:08 PM (qf6WZ)

71 >> I would be a party, talking to a hot girl, and my mind would be focused singluarly on the canape in her hand, and not in her body.

'First I Look at the Amuse-bouche' - AcceofSpades and the Ponce (1987)

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 06:10 PM (fzPrG)

72 I like the preemptive smackdown in the main post on the busted eat less move more theory. Hope that will preemptively answer all the people who want to chime in here with 60 years worth of dietary advice that is not scientifically proven and is obviously false even to the untrained eye when you consider the rising rates of obesity and related diseases even while eat less move more has been relentlessly pushed on us for several generations. Good call, Ace.

I have good Gainzzz to report this week. My pants and shirts have all been feeling and looking very baggy lately so I decided it is probably time to retire the size 48 pants and the 3xl shirts. I tried on my suits which I haven't had to wear much lately and they too need retirement. They wouldn't even work with suspenders anymore.

A while back I boxed up a lot of smaller clothes that I hadn't worn in a long time. I almost ditched them entirely but figured it would be nice to have them if I ever dropped weight. This weekend I pulled some of them out of the boxes. The size 46 jeans fit easily and are even a little loose around the waist. My belt is on the tightest notch and needs to go down another which means I get to put a new notch in my belt. My 2xl shirts fit again, and fit comfortably. That has not been the case for, I don't know how long, probably four years anyway.

So, now I get to start getting rid of my size 48 pants and my 3xl shirts. Not even going to bother storing them. I don't plan on ever needing them again.

In the bottom of those boxes I have a couple pairs of pants from ten years ago. They are size 42. Can't wait to be able to fit into those again. That won't be my end goal because I was overweight way back then, but it will sure feel good to be able to fit into 10 year old clothing. My guess is I'll be down to XL t-shirts by then too.

I don't know when I'll hit those benchmarks but considering I started this journey with most of you back in early July, I'm thinking maybe I can hit them by Easter.

Can't wait to read about others' gainzzzz.

Posted by: Texas Zombie at October 31, 2016 06:10 PM (SUtNI)

73 I didn't want to be the party weinie her mouth; I wanted to be her mouth.
=====

I...

huh.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:10 PM (zu88C)

74 >> Food was far more tempting and erotic

Have you tried Pastrami?

Posted by: George Costanza at October 31, 2016 06:12 PM (fzPrG)

75 Stubborn Fat Loss

Lyle McDonald

http://tinyurl.com/homln3d

the protocol

http://tinyurl.com/juahhwu

the book

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:13 PM (zu88C)

76 69 - They sure do love to take care of eachother

Posted by: Skip at October 31, 2016 06:14 PM (sWbjH)

77 Forgive if someone has already said this, but the most important thing for parents to get from this is don't let your kids fill up on Little Debbie Swiss Rolls and fruit juice as this will create permanent fat cells that can only be shrunk and not eliminated. It seems I'm seeing a lot more fat kids than ever so that might lead to big health problems for our society in 20 or 30 years.

Posted by: al w at October 31, 2016 06:14 PM (DFy/C)

78 though I do see some faint scar-like lines around my belly, if I look really hard.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:48 PM (8rNrN

stretch marks

Posted by: phoenixgirl, gird up your loins, this is not the time to go wobbly at October 31, 2016 06:16 PM (0O7c5)

79 people who fidget are annoying

Posted by: concrete girl at October 31, 2016 06:16 PM (hZHm3)

80 My BFF at work eats constantly throughout the day and is skinny as a rail I'm not talking healthy eating either.

For instance today he had:

Bowl of cereal
Cereal bar
Banana bread
Lemon cream cookies
Peanut Butter Crackers
Bologna sandwich
Potato chips
Soda
Lots of coffee
Half a Twix bar

And that was all by 1pm. I'd love to smack him.

Posted by: @DangerGirl (gab.ai) and her 1.21 Gigawatt SanityProd (tm) at October 31, 2016 06:16 PM (+eR2D)

81 78, stretch marks

Posted by: phoenixgirl, gird up your loins, this is not the time to go wobbly at October 31, 2016 06:16 PM (0O7c5)
Heh...you so bad..

Posted by: IC at October 31, 2016 06:17 PM (a0IVu)

82 >>>zombie & banana splits guy:
You guys are still buying into the whole "people are awful" view of diet.

Wait, what? What did I say?

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 06:17 PM (xDi4L)

83 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

That's me on that crazy Twizzlers diet.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 06:18 PM (8b+oT)

84 >>>the most important thing for parents to get from this is don't let your kids fill up on Little Debbie Swiss Rolls and fruit juice as this will create permanent fat cells that can only be shrunk and not eliminated.

QFT

And Lyle McDonald is smart angry asshole. His views on training are not all that, but diet he knows his stuff. But he is angry. Needs a hug or something.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 06:20 PM (xDi4L)

85 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

That's gonna leave a Stretch Mark.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 06:20 PM (fzPrG)

86 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

That's gonna leave a Stretch Mark.

Posted by: garrett

But you'll need a mirror to see it.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 06:21 PM (8b+oT)

87 >>>This may sound like a cop out, but if you're still doing the Stronglifts routine and making strength gains, you might want to make that your quantifier of success rather than weight loss. For now, at least.

i'm not doing that any more. i'm doing martial arts which i've tried to combine with weightlifting but when I tried that I threw out my back.

I need to do further conditioning to get my body into shape enough where I can try doing both again.

I need rest days. Not young anymore. rest days are no longer just a recommendation.

to lift with rest days, I'd need to do martial arts and THEN go eat and then weight-lift, almost back to back, and I'm just not at the level where that is realistic yet.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:22 PM (8rNrN)

88
"defecated every 40 to 50 days"

Good customer of mine. Like clockwork.

Posted by: The Local Plumber at October 31, 2016 06:22 PM (8b+oT)

89 >>But you'll need a mirror to see it

Or a Cell Phone.

Posted by: Hope Solo at October 31, 2016 06:22 PM (fzPrG)

90 This post makes me want to go back to speed.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:22 PM (0F67M)

91 It's true that on a biochemical basis that weight loss is more complicated than eat less/exercise more. It's true when you're talking small variatons in gain vs. loss. But in this country, at this time, we're orders of magnitude beyond that. As a nation, we're so fat, we need a new word, because fat doesn't say it anymore.
And in the truly obese, eat less/exercise more does work, if you maintain portion control, and snack on high metabolism foods, while drinking LOTS of water.
You can't calorie restrict to weight loss, no matter which macro nutrient you chase. Below about 1300 calories, your body will go into metabolic preservation, and you won't lose weight..
You cannot exercise enough you lose any appreciable weight. As an example, your first 25 minutes or so of cardio burns available carbs. To come anywhere near hitting fat stores, you need to get beyond 30 minutes and at a high intensity. For people who work for a living, exercise at that intensity is exhausting.
Put another way, 5 cookies is about 500 calories. so if you run 5 miles, about 500 calories, then eat 5 cookies, you're back to even.
More lean muscle means a higher metabolism, so workouts must include weights at a sufficient intensity to cause muscle breakdown. Being tall increases metabolism. Being male increases metabolism.
Chasing a particular macro nutrient is silly, but it sells books for Taubes and Lustig. it does, however, ignore biochemistry. The best diet study ever done was expensive, ran for a year and had a comparatively small sample of three groups and a control, comparing various diets. At the end of one year all diets yielded the same amount of weight loss, within standard deviation.. The only factor which affected weight loss, was compliance with the diet. Unfortunately, they made no effort to monitor the groups after a year..
So, what do I as a gym rat and doctor tell people. 1) portions the size of your palm. No snacking after dinner. 2) 80 oz of water/day. 3) balanced exercise program with cardio, lifting, agility and flexibility.
I had a friend who is now a retired Texas Ranger. A very large guy, 6-8, always around 300 lbs. We'd see each other 2-3x /year. about 5 years ago, I saw him for our summer visit and he was a beanpole at around 190. First time evr since high school. I asked him how he did it. Answer: He ate half as much. it took 6-9 months.

Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:22 PM (5NEuS)

92 I have lost 85 pounds since March- the first 30 were, as you say, the easy weight.
Since May, my doctor prescribed a drug that is newly available in Canada named Saxenda. It basically causes me not to feel hunger so I can just do the diet and exercise stuff without fighting my body the whole time.
It turns out, I had not idea a hormonal disorder (PCOS) was causing me to be ravenous every moment of my adult life. The absence of hunger was amazing. I didn't realize that, according to my doctor, my brain was flooded with hunger signals constantly.
Without that burden, it's been a snap to eat high protein and exercise. I thought I was an emotional eater, and I guess I was, if we call "starving" an emotion.
It's changed my life, honestly. I am in the care of a team of obesity specialists and they are seeing success rates with this drug that are close to surgery.
They are just using it for obese people now but it's amazing.

Posted by: Delicious Lead Paint at October 31, 2016 06:23 PM (dNj+q)

93 >>I need rest days. Not young anymore.

Once you hit 29, it's all downhill.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 06:23 PM (fzPrG)

94 >>But you'll need a mirror to see it

Or a Cell Phone.

Posted by: Hope Solo

You're right. The light comes in handy.

Posted by: The IT Guy at October 31, 2016 06:24 PM (8b+oT)

95 >>This post makes me want to go back to speed.

My Diet is Proven to be Effective!

Posted by: Jenny Crank at October 31, 2016 06:24 PM (fzPrG)

96 Great post, Ace.

Here's the deal for me: on days I lift, for example, today was squat day, it is super easy to not eat for 20-22 hours. Today is a good illustration; I had my first meal 22 hours into the fast. And I ate that meal because I had lifted and I knew I had to feed my muscles after tearing them down in the gym, not because I was necessarily hungry.

But after eating that first meal of the day, I was ravenous! 30 minutes after eating - only 30 minutes - I wolfed down a protein bar and a couple big-ass (highly technical term, big-ass) spoonfuls of peanut butter. So now I can make it 30 minutes longer to my final feeding of the day. And after that, I'll be fine until tomorrow.

Anybody else experience the same thing? You're fine until you eat your first meal of the day, and then all hell breaks loose, eating-wise?

Posted by: Sixkiller at October 31, 2016 06:25 PM (mFA3Z)

97 Heh...greatest permanent gainzz of my adult life came after a disastrous divorce. Losing everything and being compelled to live on beans and rice for two years, plus taking a physically demanding job, made me a lean, mean, blue-collar machine. Recommend it to the young 'rons.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at October 31, 2016 06:25 PM (Aounx)

98 I once asked my GP for amphetamines. I thought we were going to have a fist fight. I remember laughing when he told me that they wouldn't cause weight loss. I said 'Doctor, I'm not without experience in this area. You take black beauties and you will lose weight!'

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:26 PM (0F67M)

99 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

That's how I got this rash. *bends over, points to rash for everyone to see*

Posted by: Woman with a Rash at October 31, 2016 06:26 PM (8b+oT)

100 >>Anybody else experience the same thing? You're fine until you eat your first meal of the day, and then all hell breaks loose, eating-wise?

Yep.

Also, low blood sugar makes me bloodthirsty.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 06:26 PM (fzPrG)

101 >>>"defecated every 40 to 50 days"<<<

Egadz! I'm like a playdough factory; raw material in, extrusion out. Like clockwork. I know, TMI.

Posted by: Fritz at October 31, 2016 06:26 PM (+q5T4)

102 >>'Doctor, I'm not without experience in this area. You take black beauties and you will lose weight!'

And they say we didn't learn anything in Kolllige.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2016 06:27 PM (/tuJf)

103 Lyle McDonald - "All diets work"
Tom Venuto - " I don't diet, I battle"

True dat.

The trick is in efficiency. Your body fights your calorie deficit and adjusts your metabolism accordingly. Exercise increases hunger. It's a war. Your body struggles to hold on to fat and to burn efficiently. Obese people are inefficient fat burners. They have to move more weight around increasing the calorie burn. As ace noted that's why they burn off the first 50-100 lbs so easily.

Then the real work begins.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:27 PM (zu88C)

104 It actually takes 10 weeks of doing anything to see appreciable change. Most people get discouraged and quit long before that..

Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:28 PM (5NEuS)

105 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

We're gonna need a bigger toilet.

Posted by: Sheriff Brody at October 31, 2016 06:28 PM (8b+oT)

106 Never gone over the "easy" 10 pound weight gain in my life.
Once got down 25 pounds under " normal" weight.
Due to distance running, and Atkins Diet.
Really loved the "runner's high".
Ran 50-60 miles per week, at peak.
Able to eat constantly, had a hard time maintaining weight.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 06:28 PM (d6TTt)

107 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

Must of had to use block and tackle and chains and hoists much like loading torpedos on those WW2 subs. And HEAVE!

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 31, 2016 06:28 PM (JO9+V)

108 It actually takes 10 weeks of doing anything to see appreciable change. Most people get discouraged and quit long before that..

Posted by: macleod

Screw that. I didn't eat for almost an hour today.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 06:29 PM (8b+oT)

109 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

He can have Two sheets.

Posted by: Sheryl Crowe at October 31, 2016 06:29 PM (fzPrG)

110 Macleod, your advice sounds pretty similar to what I am getting from my medical people. They do seem pretty concerned that I get 75grams of protein a day though.

Posted by: Delicious Lead Paint at October 31, 2016 06:29 PM (dNj+q)

111 Don't know if it would help or just report what your moving in a day the supervisor at the library had one of those apps that counts how many steps he takes. He is a bit overweight and not sure why he was using it but he was telling me results almost every day.

Posted by: Skip at October 31, 2016 06:29 PM (sWbjH)

112 Ace,

That case of the obese man who fasted for a year seems to suggest that he burned lots of calories each day.

Assuming 3,500 kcal/lb of fat
275.5lb /382days = 0.72lb/day lost

0.72lb/day*3,500 kcal/lb of fat = 2521 kcal/day

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 06:30 PM (Zu3d9)

113 "defecated every 40 to 50 days"

Ask me how I lost 17 pounds in 39 seconds.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 06:30 PM (8b+oT)

114 Hey, Ace, I just wanted to say congrats on losing your virginity. Kudos.

Posted by: Tommy V at October 31, 2016 06:31 PM (2waO2)

115 I'm 6'1", and was 270 3 years ago, and am now 220. I did what ace calls the Eat Less Move More to get to that point, along with heavy weight training, no cardio. I look way, way better, went from a 42 inch pant to a 32 or 34 inch pant. But in the last 8 months, I cannot break 220. I've tried cutting farther and farther---if 1800 calories a day is good, 1500 is better, 1200 is even better, etc. But I've come to the same conclusion he has. I just want too much, too quickly.

My GAINZZ are not happening, because I'm not eating enough. I think about food all the time, my libido has suffered, my energy has suffered, my brain energy (sometimes referred to as "teh smartz") at work has suffered. After a bout of internet research a few weeks ago, I find out that, apparently, this is a very very common thing. You just want more, more, faster, faster, but you just can't cut that aggressively for that long without screwing things up. So, I'm back at eating at maintenance (which most online calculators tell me is about 2300 calories), I'm getting 1 g of protein per lean pound of body weight, and I'll do this for a month or 2 before I cut down to 2000 or so, where I'll stay for a while. I already feel so much better, if it doesn't actually cause weight to drop, eh.

Posted by: Linus at October 31, 2016 06:32 PM (klwO8)

116 >>>Chasing a particular macro nutrient is silly, but it sells books for Taubes and Lustig. it does, however, ignore biochemistry. The best diet study ever done was expensive, ran for a year and had a comparatively small sample of three groups and a control, comparing various diets. At the end of one year all diets yielded the same amount of weight loss, within standard deviation.. The only factor which affected weight loss, was compliance with the diet. Unfortunately, they made no effort to monitor the groups after a year..

Agree on the no magic to any particular macronutrient combo with one caveat - lean protein tends to have a hunger blunting effect. It's very easy to overeat on carbs or fat or mixtures - but very hard to overeat on lean protein (chicken breasts, egg whites, tuna steaks) - so increasing lean protein intake on a diet with green vegetables tends to keep satiety levels up while keeping calorie levels low. 200-400 calories of chicken breast in one sitting is about all the average person can eat before signals stop coming to eat.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 06:32 PM (xDi4L)

117 Since the fat man wasn't eating anything at all, the 50 day crap would have been made up entirely from cells from his own intestinal lining.

It was fucking meconium. That's some stinky shit.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:33 PM (0F67M)

118 Posted by: Linus at October 31, 2016 06:32 PM (klwO

Muscle wighs more than fat.
You could be bulking up.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 06:33 PM (d6TTt)

119 >>>Assuming 3,500 kcal/lb of fat
275.5lb /382days = 0.72lb/day lost

0.72lb/day*3,500 kcal/lb of fat = 2521 kcal/day

...

sigh. You with the math, huh?

How much was needed to simply maintain his core body temperature? You don't know that. A large man -- I'd imagine his basal metabolic energy requirements are higher than for the average person.

You're also overlooking the fact that when fat is burned in ketosis, it is burned *inefficiently* -- one useable fat molecule is converted to energy and two of them are pissed out in the urine.

Look, there is a hell of a lot more going on here than these simple equations take into account.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:34 PM (8rNrN)

120 Sooooooooo- bottom line... None of this really works and I can start hitting the Halloween candy bowl?

Posted by: Weasel at October 31, 2016 06:35 PM (Sfs6o)

121 You think this shit is hard? Wait till you twice your current age, THEN it is hard. Your resting burn rate is low naturally and you have to work like hell to get it up.

The fat I've had stored in fat cells since before I lost my virginity?

Stop whining what's one year of fat?

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:35 PM (NbJXF)

122 Sticky, rather. Not stinky.

FMK

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:36 PM (0F67M)

123 Your body wants you to be fat because throughout history food was never guaranteed. This first world lifestyle is new to the human condition.

Posted by: Citizen Cake at October 31, 2016 06:36 PM (ppaKI)

124 None of this really works and I can start hitting the Halloween candy bowl?

Is it a bowl of speed?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:36 PM (0F67M)

125 Posted by: Weasel at October 31, 2016 06:35 PM (Sfs6o)

That's how it always starts. That and Thanksgiving. And Christmas.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 06:36 PM (d6TTt)

126 Better Living Through Chemistry!

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:37 PM (0F67M)

127 110. You'll notice I didn't mention any macro nutrients. When I graduated med school in 86, only 4 med schools in the country had nutrition courses. Mine was one of them. Doctors are notoriously ignorant about biochemistry, and they read the same material the lay public reads. Gary Taubes speaks at 35 medical conferences a year, and Lustig, whose a Stanford peds endocrine guy speaks to at least that many and probably more. They are there to sell books, and really, the honest research that's been done on weight loss and nutrition doesn't support either of them. Sadly, there should be a lot of money available for weight loss research, but in fact, most goes to finding a magic bullet drug to allow people to eat like pigs and still lose weight.

Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:37 PM (5NEuS)

128
Is it a bowl of speed?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:36 PM (0F67M)

Well, the famous "Colombian Marching Powder" diet really works!
Winning!

Posted by: Charlie Sheen at October 31, 2016 06:38 PM (NbJXF)

129 >>>I've tried cutting farther and farther---if 1800 calories a day is good, 1500 is better, 1200 is even better, etc. But I've come to the same conclusion he has. I just want too much, too quickly.

You have to include return to maintenance periods every so often to set your pitons in at a new setpoint. Overweight can go continuously for long periods but I still would say reset for 4 weeks every so often, and ideally six weeks.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 06:38 PM (xDi4L)

130 Another fun fact for the non-29 year olds -

Your basal metabolic rate drops 2-3% for every year after 40.

You're welcome.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:38 PM (zu88C)

131 I have been fasting from 8pm to 12noon each day. With an intake of about 1800 calories. I am a vegan (yikes) so the low-carb stuff has been difficult.

I am still getting 80-120g of carbs each day and usually equal or less protein. Healthy fat, as is the norm, is pretty easy.

I've lost 10 pounds in more than a month which is mostly middle aged belly fat. I am a skinny guy with a fat gut. I think I am probably around the weight I should be at 145 and trying to move those 10 or so extra pounds on the gut into more muscle.

We will see, we will see.

Oddly though, I am enjoying the control of ZERO calories from 8-12pm. Not entirely sure why.

Posted by: Tommy V at October 31, 2016 06:38 PM (2waO2)

132 Look, there is a hell of a lot more going on here than these simple equations take into account.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:34 PM (8rNrN)

I have no dog in this hunt....

I thought it was interesting. And it is fairly well known that the body goes through some contortions during starvation to spare muscle, so it's a fair assumption that much (most?) of this weight loss was fat.

As I said..interesting.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 06:39 PM (Zu3d9)

133 Your basal metabolic rate drops 2-3% for every year after 40.

I should be able to live on a peanut.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:39 PM (0F67M)

134 Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:37 PM (5NEuS)
-------------
When people find out you're a disc, like at a social function, do they ask you to start diagnosing random stuff on them?

Posted by: Weasel at October 31, 2016 06:40 PM (Sfs6o)

135 Skinny, fat, in between...

Healthy is the goal.....your genes will play a big part too.

Most people end up looking like their parents did at a given age.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 31, 2016 06:40 PM (ej1L0)

136 >>Another fun fact for the non-29 year olds -

>>Your basal metabolic rate drops 2-3% for every year after 40.

You're not helping.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2016 06:40 PM (/tuJf)

137 I want the little rug rats to take all my candy so I will stop eating it.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:40 PM (NbJXF)

138 We have 3 bags of candy and no treaters yet.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:41 PM (0F67M)

139 Disc =doc

Posted by: Weasel at October 31, 2016 06:41 PM (Sfs6o)

140 The body will burn whatever is available.

Tricking it into burning fat instead of muscle involves maintaining protein intake.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:41 PM (zu88C)

141 Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 31, 2016 06:40 PM (ej1L0)

Yep.
And little old men look like little old women,and little old women look like little old men.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 06:41 PM (d6TTt)

142 123 True. If you go back to paleolithic man, he was a nomadic scavenger who ate on the move, and ate whatever he came across. Genetically, natured selected out the folks who stored energy the most efficiently for later use. The folks who couldn't store, died off. So now we're the survivors, and boy oh boy, can we store energy. What's changed, of course, is that there's no limit to how much we have access to, and we just keep storing..

Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:41 PM (5NEuS)

143 Look who's stealing Ace's logo and subhead:

https://menofthewest.net/welcome-to-the-hard-right/

Looks to be part of the Alt-Right.

Posted by: Jamie at October 31, 2016 06:42 PM (xuma8)

144 We rarely get any. Most kids are afraid to come down the old crazy guy's gravel driveway through the woods..

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:42 PM (0F67M)

145 Oddly though, I am enjoying the control of ZERO calories from 8-12pm. Not entirely sure why.

Posted by: Tommy V

Same here but I go from around 10pm to 3pm or sometimes 5 or 6pm. I drink black coffee during the day. Really dark roast so there's less caffeine. I should stop eating earlier in the evening but that's tv time, ya know.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 06:43 PM (8b+oT)

146 @130

Yes I mentioned this @121. Old is ugly. BUT the time you put in earlier in life pays dividends later.

I am coasting on my past, but it is catching up with me. Muscle disappears with in two to three months. You may look like you have some, but they aren't there. Really pisses me off. This staying in shape shit never ends.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (NbJXF)

147 I should be able to live on a peanut.

Posted by: Grump928(C)
======

We used to dream of eating a peanut.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (zu88C)

148 We usually get one or two little kid trick or treaters from within about a 5 house radius. And sometimes some poor ethnic kids from the 'projects' down the street. But we live at the top of a hill and they are lazy and don't like climbing the hill so we are a low value target.

Posted by: Weasel at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (Sfs6o)

149 A man always builds a shed over his best tool.

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (JO9+V)

150 134. It does happen, but I'm retired now almost 10 years, and I' m very much a "you damn kids get off my lawn" kind of guy, so it doesn't happen at social functions. I do spend a lot of time in the gym. I exercise 7 days/week, and do one than one work out/day. So questions do arise in that setting..

Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (5NEuS)

151 'I want the little rug rats to take all my candy so I will stop eating it.
Posted by: Nip Sip
138 We have 3 bags of candy and no treaters yet.
Posted by: Grump928(C) '

We never have TorT'rs. Our driveway is too long. We have candy though. And it's all mine.

Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (BO/km)

152 I should be able to live on a peanut.

Posted by: Grump928(C)

I can turn peanuts into speeeed, bro.

Posted by: George Washington Carver at October 31, 2016 06:45 PM (8b+oT)

153
One rule that really works? Eat nothing after 8:00 PM. Those late night snacks and beers are killers.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:45 PM (NbJXF)

154 Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:26 PM (0F67M)
A bunch of my girlfriends all seem to have come down with raging cases of ADD. They need the adderall for their condition.
It works, they also have immaculate homes.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 06:45 PM (Q5Ymk)

155 Mrs928 makes me take down the tripwires on Halloween.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:45 PM (0F67M)

156 The EC stack and Yohimbe caffeine combo are great for speeding up metabolism.

Also for making you aggro to the point of homicidal.

Small doses, people

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:46 PM (zu88C)

157 maintaining protein intake.

Posted by: Mortimer

That doesn't sound gay at all.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2016 06:46 PM (8b+oT)

158 Tapeworms are a proven diet aid.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 06:46 PM (d6TTt)

159 A bunch of my girlfriends all seem to have come down with raging cases of ADD.

I've been considering trying that. The funny thing is, after looking at the symptoms, I may have been ADD my entire life. Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (0F67M)

160 Ace--

I think you may be on to something as far as the exercise goes. Especially considering that exercise encourages people to eat more and more than they burn off, generally. The relationship may not be as simple as is commonly suggested.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (CcUfv)

161 Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (BO/km)
I don't get any ToT's either. I heard on the radio the things people give the kids when they run out of candy. The funniest one was Taco Bell hot sauce packets.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (Q5Ymk)

162 127
That makes sense. I really like the saxenda though, without the physical hunger I can just eat to plan and my brain isn't fighting me. I still have to eat less than I used to, but it's not painful.
Exercise is working out well too. I am not doing anything too strenuous, just a 4 mile walk every day and some mild weights a couple times a week.
I am lucky to have a great benefits plan to pick up the cost though.

Posted by: Delicious Lead Paint at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (dNj+q)

163 We never have TorT'rs. Our driveway is too long. We have candy though. And it's all mine.

Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (BO/km)

I suffer from the same problem. To few kids and too many big yards to cross means the kids avoid my neighborhood, too much work for too little return.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (NbJXF)

164 That doesn't sound gay at all.

Posted by: Dang
=====

I'm too old to learn how, anyway.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (zu88C)

165 134 Also, the folks at the gym tend to be young , female, shapely and in skin tight spandex, so it doesn't seem to bother me as much. I don't know why....

Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:49 PM (5NEuS)

166 I've been considering trying that. The funny thing
is, after looking at the symptoms, I may have been ADD my entire life.
Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (0F67M)

Me too. You know Bill Buckley took Ritalin all his life. I got tested about 10 years ago, because too many people said I was ADD.

I would have loved to have failed to get some speed, but alas it was not to be. I turned out to be just a lot smarter and impatience than everyone I knew.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:50 PM (NbJXF)

167 The guy in the cube across from me does that, DangerGirl.

He's still fairly young, though.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 06:50 PM (CcUfv)

168 Don't eat breakfast.

I never ate breakfast my entire life and in 2014 and 2015 i began to eat breakfast and BOOM the pounds piled on fast.

Fuck breakfast!

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:51 PM (DurKO)

169 Also, the folks at the gym tend to be young , female, shapely and in skin tight spandex, so it doesn't seem to bother me as much. I don't know why....

One of the joys of grad school: working out in the gym when the girls' soccer team is doing their weekly training sessions.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at October 31, 2016 06:51 PM (FYrz1)

170 What weight do you want to lose?

Losing weight is easy.

*vomit*

See?

Body recomposition from fat to muscular is much more difficult. Diet is a big part. So is genetics.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 06:51 PM (zu88C)

171 Heh. I may just have time to eat a sandwich before the deluge of little costumed extortionists descends upon us.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 31, 2016 06:52 PM (7H/2n)

172 looks like my gains this week will be bringing home the nickle finish Wolverine, starting the paperw*rk on the CG-63 Swedish Mauser, as well as picking up the 22 ton log splitter that's been waiting for me at Lowes...

as for weight loss or exercise....

Posted by: redc1c4 at October 31, 2016 06:52 PM (KWUK6)

173 155
Mrs928 makes me take down the tripwires on Halloween.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:45 PM (0F67M)

What a party pooper.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:52 PM (NbJXF)

174 Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (0F67M)
I do have ADD, I would never take the adderall.
These girls get really skinny, drink a metric crap ton of wine because they can't sleep and do weird projects at night.
Like clean their ceiling fans at three in the morning.
Also, they never seem to get drunk.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 06:52 PM (Q5Ymk)

175 Rumors are that Andrew Brietbart popped Adderall like tic tacs.

He is still a saint though.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:53 PM (DurKO)

176 Fuck breakfast!
Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:51 PM (DurKO)

I never eat breakfast, just not hungry then. My normal inclination is to eat 1 meal a day.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 06:53 PM (d6TTt)

177 Too bad for the lazy little brats. In my day we would hit almost every house in the neighborhood.

If anybody did venture up the driveway I'd give 'em a bonus just for making the effort. They don't know what their missing. I have apples!

Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 06:53 PM (BO/km)

178 "Anybody else experience the same thing? You're fine until you eat your first meal of the day, and then all hell breaks loose, eating-wise?"

dopamine rush. the food feels gooood, and you wanna another hit

Posted by: Grad School Fool at October 31, 2016 06:54 PM (swEzU)

179 Never had a single trick or treater on Halloween at this house.

I didn't buy any candy this year...so I am sure that will change.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2016 06:54 PM (fzPrG)

180 "They are" missing. I ain't that illitterate

Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 06:55 PM (BO/km)

181 Adderall has been known to cause snail trails being left after study sessions.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:55 PM (DurKO)

182 I've always stayed between 140-145. I'm 5'9. Always wanted to get down to 130 but my biggest failure is my love of alcohol. Love my wine and tequila. I really don't eat that much. Now, with arthritis pretty much everywhere (knees, back, feet) it's hard to exercise or even walk in the morning like I used to.

Posted by: DeplorableJewells45 at October 31, 2016 06:55 PM (CNHr1)

183 That's why I always liked John Candy.

He knew he was a fat ass who would not live a long life so he said "F" it and enjoyed his time on earth.

Brought me may a smile even if he was Canadian.

RIP John.....

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 31, 2016 06:56 PM (ej1L0)

184 82) Wait, what? What did I say?

Hey, BSG, you and zombie were both on the "eat less, move more" thing. And I think one of the reasons that theory is so popular is that it encourages us to think: a) People are awful; b) They're getting worse all the time.

"Your fat because you're slothful and gluttonous."

I'm not saying you think these things. I mean, EL/MM is settled science, it's conventional wisdom, it's what the experts tell us. But since it's been wrong the whole time, it's interesting to note why it's so sticky.

And this is my theory: Since (at least) WWII, there's been a (largely successful) campaign to make people think other people are awful. If we make people's failings about their =character= rather than the =bad data= they've been given, it dovetails nicely.

But that's just my hobby horse. It's not aimed at either of you personally.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 06:57 PM (CcUfv)

185 Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 31, 2016 06:40 PM (ej1L0)
That's encouraging. My mother is 79 and she doesn't look it at all. My father aged well also.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 06:58 PM (Q5Ymk)

186 The guy in the cube across from me does that, DangerGirl.

He's still fairly young, though.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 06:50 PM (CcUfv)

This guy is going to be 60 in March. I'll say it again...I seriously want to slap him.

Posted by: @DangerGirl (gab.ai) and her 1.21 Gigawatt SanityProd (tm) at October 31, 2016 06:58 PM (+eR2D)

187 When I was in middle school and high school, the kids were not snorting cocaine in the bathrooms.

They were crushing up the instant release Ritilan and knocking back rails. In the early 90's.

Great to know that teachers basically force children and mainly boys to take speed that is like legal cocaine. (Sarc)

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 06:59 PM (DurKO)

188 Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 31, 2016 06:56 PM (ej1L0)

Great guy, he was.
The weight thing can devolve into navel- gazing, if a person is not careful.
There is such a thing as self- absorption, and some peole obsess about vanity weight.
To each their own, though.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 07:01 PM (d6TTt)

189 Here's a frustrating thing. I've lost, I'm guessing, about 20 pounds. My pants are all loose. My shirts are all fitting better. I know my face has lost its puffiness and not a single person has commented--not one, other than my wife.

These other people emphatically are not why I'm doing this but it puzzles me a bit.

Posted by: Northernlurker at October 31, 2016 07:02 PM (hJrjt)

190 154 Posted by: Grump928(C) at October 31, 2016 06:26 PM (0F67M)
A bunch of my girlfriends all seem to have come down with raging cases of ADD. They need the adderall for their condition.
It works, they also have immaculate homes.
Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 06:45 PM (Q5Ymk

Their SEC drive is off the charts if they are being honest with you.

Shit is like meth but legal.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 07:02 PM (DurKO)

191 Gotta go. Sloppy Joes await.

Posted by: freaked at October 31, 2016 07:03 PM (BO/km)

192 Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:37 PM (5NEuS)
So what is your take on low carb high fat?
My doctor likes this diet. He thinks it's wise to stay away from all processed food, sugar, rice, potatoes and sugar. I haven't seen him to ask about IF.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 07:04 PM (Q5Ymk)

193 Posted by: Northernlurker at October 31, 2016 07:02 PM (hJrjt)

Sometimes what we perceive about ourselves, is just not that important to other people, maybe?

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 07:05 PM (d6TTt)

194 You're also overlooking the fact that when fat is burned in ketosis, it is burned *inefficiently* -- one useable fat molecule is converted to energy and two of them are pissed out in the urine.

Look, there is a hell of a lot more going on here than these simple equations take into account.
Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 06:34 PM (8rNr

Tell us about it

Posted by: Ace's Kidneys at October 31, 2016 07:06 PM (DurKO)

195 Burning question- I have seen pictures of people that were grossly overweight lose a lot of weight fast. They were all talking about skin removal surgery. Would it not be better to slow the weight loss down and let the skin adjust ( It adjusted to being stretched) to the loss?

Posted by: Ben Had at October 31, 2016 07:07 PM (5qVkb)

196 >>>Hey, BSG, you and zombie were both on the "eat less, move more" thing

All I said was that there is some truth in it. It seems that people want black or white, all you have to do is eat less and love more or eat less move more is total shit and you just need to eat certain macros or at certain times and everything is groovy. I said both sides are right. Do we need to eat less and move more? Of course, go compare restaurant meal sizes from today with the 50s and 60s. We are more sedentary. So yes. Is that the be all end all for everyone? No, of course not. Some people (good percentage) probably will need to play with meal frequency or macros because of other factors. Everybody needs to (a) find what works and (b) recognize other things work for other people. That's it.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 07:07 PM (N7GPm)

197 Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at October 31, 2016 07:02 PM (DurKO)
What's SEC drive? They know they don't have ADD, they want to lose weight. They found one Dr that hands it out and read the symptoms of ADHD.
They ask me what ADD feels like. They know I'm a hyper spazz. Had I known why they were asking I wouldn't have told them. I told them they are taking legal speed and it's not good for you.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 07:08 PM (Q5Ymk)

198
Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 06:44 PM (5NEuS)
--------------
I try and do that to mess with my doctors - for example, I'm going to see a cardio guy tomorrow and I will ask him to look at something on my foot just to see his reaction. Only works a couple of times though until they realize I'm a smart as and start making additional notes in my chart.

Posted by: Weasel at October 31, 2016 07:09 PM (Sfs6o)

199 Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (NbJXF)
---------
You rich people!

Posted by: Weasel at October 31, 2016 07:09 PM (Sfs6o)

200 Know a woman who lost gobs of weight. Went to Mexico, had the loose skin all cut off. Got a nasty infection, but got over it.
She thinks she looks really good. Glad she thinks so.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 07:09 PM (d6TTt)

201 When you make it to 165, what arae you going to do with all that extra skin?

i've looked into that. they say as long as you're not losing it too quickly the skin naturally shrinks down (by attrition -- not replacing now-uneeded extra skin cells) and you look okay.

though I do see some faint scar-like lines around my belly, if I look really hard.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:48 PM (8rNrN)

Fung did a blog post on this a few weeks ago. He was bragging that people on the IF program NEVER had to have excess skin removed following major weight loss like those with bariatric surgery because the protein in the skin cannibalizes itself.

Posted by: SMOD 2016! at October 31, 2016 07:09 PM (joFoi)

202 Someday, according to sci- fi, we'll all be able to upload ourselves into perfect android bodies. Then all of this will be moot.

Posted by: tubal at October 31, 2016 07:12 PM (d6TTt)

203 Ace, Just keep trying. dont quit, don't get discouraged

Posted by: L J Moloney at October 31, 2016 07:13 PM (ULtaw)

204
Hillary dropped about 115 lbs today.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at October 31, 2016 07:13 PM (zu88C)

205 Posted by: Pave Low John at October 31, 2016 05:46 PM (OejZ/)
I've mentioned this before I think, the guys on the wrestling team would starve themselves and spit all day trying to make weight. Spit all day.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 07:14 PM (Q5Ymk)

206 Rippetoe youtube on training over age 40:. You need to lower expectations if you're new to training; you need to moderate volume from 5x5 to 3x5 2x/week. And you will be sore. Nice reality check for a 58 yo newbie.

Posted by: Regular joe at October 31, 2016 07:14 PM (ROIz5)

207 I didn't want to be the party weinie her mouth; I wanted to be her mouth.

This phrase may haunt me. 0_O

Posted by: moronhorde minion at October 31, 2016 07:18 PM (TuRs5)

208 The problem with LCHF is that society is against you. The only place you can eat, is at home, practically. When that changes, and the tide is beginning to change, then the LCHF will be easier.

Posted by: DFCtomm at October 31, 2016 07:18 PM (9gOXn)

209 I do get awful tired of the CICO chants and the snide "First Law of Thermodynamics" shit (which of course presupposes a closed system, whereas the body is a...hell, we just don't know, do we). My frustration is with the amount of certainty I encounter from other humans in this area, as though the Received Wisdom hasn't drastically changed every 10 minutes in the last 40 years.

I am looking forward to my lifts going up. My deadlift has been stuck at 385 for a while and it's pissing me off.

Posted by: Linus at October 31, 2016 07:18 PM (klwO8)

210 This is so on the money. Though at first I thought you were going too soft on the eat loss/move more crowd. But no, it was perfect. I think this is a close to correct as far as a body weight theory as is possible with what we know now. Of course we learn more all the time,

Posted by: Grandmalcaesar at October 31, 2016 07:19 PM (iHFBh)

211 The problem with LCHF is that society is against
you.

Posted by: DFCtomm at October 31, 2016 07:18 PM (9gOXn)

I think the Low Carb part is entering the mainstream....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 07:20 PM (Zu3d9)

212 In 1965, an extremely obese 27-year-old male, weighing in at 456 pounds
fasted for 382 days (one year and 17 days) and lost 275.5 pounds.
Doctors from the University of Dundee monitored his condition throughout
his fast. During his fast, he obese man recorded low glucose levels for
100 days and defecated every 40 to 50 days.

-----------------

Then, WHAT WAS POO???

Posted by: Also, who was phone? at October 31, 2016 07:20 PM (vqzjE)

213 Posted by: Texas Zombie at October 31, 2016 06:10 PM (SUtNI)
You totally rock Texas Zombie!! I'm really happy for you.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 07:23 PM (Q5Ymk)

214 My gainz - up 5 pounds. Over a period of 5 days, I indulged in cinnamon sugar cookies, 3 Magnum Infinity bars (almost painfully sweet to my palate now) and homemade chicken enchiladas.

Now, that's given me a little margin of "easy" weight loss. I can ditch those 5 pounds in a week. But I need to power 10 pounds past that. HFLC/IF - I've never gone fully gung ho on this particular plan for a sustained period of time (like, more than a week steady, and I'm planning to take this through the end of the year).

I agree with Ace that it makes sense to allow your body time to accept a new lower weight as the norm, then carve another interval past that. I've been able to sustain 165-169 for 6 months. That was not a period of strict low-carb observance (for example, I was no stranger to sandwiches or cheese and crackers, which I love).

Now I need to break through that 165 number down into the 150's, which would put me into territory I haven't seen since the Carter administration.

My main objective is to maintain my joints (with which I have no problems, and I want to keep that way). Every ten pounds makes a significant difference with knees and such, and I'd like to enter my 70s in the 150 range.

I have a question for some of you older morons: how much height have you lost so far? I'm 61 and I'm now 5'7 3/4" - I used to be 5'8 1/2." My mom, who is now 82, has lost over 2" in height.

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the Deplorable Standard Rednecks at October 31, 2016 07:24 PM (BcNLK)

215 no trick or treaters for us...

we tried the first couple of years here, but, since we live on the main drag, none of our neighbor's kids would come around (they stay back on the side streets where there's less traffic, for safety.

when we noticed that the only people coming around were hordes of anchor babies from the barrio, we stopped handing out free shit.

another fun American tradition, shot to shit.

Posted by: redc1c4 at October 31, 2016 07:24 PM (KWUK6)

216 Calories in calories out is annoying and usually stated annoyingly: "hate to break it to you folks, push away rom the table and go for a walk. It's that simple".
Oh, right.

Posted by: Grandmalcaesar at October 31, 2016 07:25 PM (iHFBh)

217 Dangergirl--

SLAP HIM FOR ME, TOO!

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 07:27 PM (CcUfv)

218 Posted by: concrete girl at October 31, 2016 06:16 PM (hZHm3)
I fidget. My mother hates sitting next to me in church.
I annoy her and make her nervous. I also pace in the hospital while I'm waiting for her. I go outside so I don't bother anyone. I can't help it.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 07:27 PM (Q5Ymk)

219 Has anyone STARTED fidgeting since IF?

I have. It's weird. I used to be--that thing called "restless leg syndrome"? I was, like, "Well, yeah, that's just what you do, right?"

I got older and the legs settled down. Just low-carb didn't really bring it back but the IF does. And on days when I don't eat, especially. Figure that out with your "science".

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 07:31 PM (CcUfv)

220 though I do see some faint scar-like lines around my belly, if I look really hard.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 05:48 PM (8rNrN)

==========
Stretch marks - they're not just for pregnant women! I think they say to rub them with vitamin E. Don't know if it works, though.

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the Deplorable Standard Rednecks at October 31, 2016 07:32 PM (BcNLK)

221 I think the Low Carb part is entering the mainstream....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 31, 2016 07:20 PM (Zu3d9)

I wish it would get more mainstream in the grocery store. Almond meal/flour is one of the main subs for flour. My local Kroger has it on sale this month: $7.19/lb. Sheesh.

I gave up on trying to find a truly low-carb ice cream and make my own. Luckily, Aldi sells heavy cream for 1.69/pint.

Eating LCHF is expensive!

Posted by: SMOD 2016! at October 31, 2016 07:35 PM (joFoi)

222 I've kind of fallen off the wagon a bit on Penn Jillette's 'Presto' diet (the name of his book about it) but I recommend the concept of pallet cleansing. Basically a 'reset' of your pallet.....from which you can 'build' a desire for veggies, fruit, nuts and berries. First two weeks - all you can eat potatoes, including sweet potatoes. But nothing else - no butter, no salt. Black pepper is okay week two. I only made it 11 and 1/2 days but it still 'worked'. After potatoes you add corn. It tastes like candy after 11 days of potatoes (I had 2 48 hour fasts in the 11 days I hated potatoes so much). Then beans and then rice (and hot sauce).

Lost 25 pounds in 30 days and I could walk down any grocery aisle (actually did this a few times a week for laughs) and have/had no desire for any of it - no meat, no ice cream, nothing. But the 'only potatoes' period is awful. I'm not working - I'm not sure I could do it if I had to be functional.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at October 31, 2016 07:39 PM (PvCxa)

223 Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the Deplorable Standard Rednecks at October 31, 2016 07:24 PM (BcNLK)
I'm just on the friendly side of 50 and I'm still 5'7. My FIL was 6'4 now he's 6'1 but he broke his back ejecting from his plane. He thinks he lost some inches from that.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 07:41 PM (Q5Ymk)

224 My father lost a ton of weight when he retired. This is why:

He was basically forced out in an early retirement program at age 59 (but they paid him and his compadres so much to leave, they couldn't turn it down).

For the 15-20 years prior to retirement, he worked in a lot of weird locations around the world. He had no real food choices other than eating out a lot (he never learned to cook and lived in small apartments; eating out was easier). He also worked 12 hour days so the project would GET DONE and he could leave. So he sat a lot and ate a lot.

After he retired, he started doing what he wanted to do. He got a dog and started taking it for really long walks every day. He plowed up a huge garden and spent hours and hours messing with it. He started mowing his own lawn (he was cheap and didn't want to pay anyone to do it). Plus he started eating my mother's cooking which trust me will eventually kill your appetite permanently. They virtually never ate out (remember he's cheap). At home they just chicken or a casserole or occasionally these horrible salmon croquettes my mother made [blech]. And stuff out of his garden.

He probably dropped 50 pounds and kept it off until he died.

Posted by: the other coyote at October 31, 2016 07:44 PM (yK44T)

225 222 I've kind of fallen off the wagon a bit on Penn Jillette's 'Presto' diet (the name of his book about it) but I recommend the concept of pallet cleansing. Basically a 'reset' of your pallet.....from which you can 'build' a desire for veggies, fruit, nuts and berries. First two weeks - all you can eat potatoes, including sweet potatoes. But nothing else - no butter, no salt. Black pepper is okay week two. I only made it 11 and 1/2 days but it still 'worked'. After potatoes you add corn. It tastes like candy after 11 days of potatoes (I had 2 48 hour fasts in the 11 days I hated potatoes so much). Then beans and then rice (and hot sauce).

Lost 25 pounds in 30 days and I could walk down any grocery aisle (actually did this a few times a week for laughs) and have/had no desire for any of it - no meat, no ice cream, nothing. But the 'only potatoes' period is awful. I'm not working - I'm not sure I could do it if I had to be functional.
Posted by: East Bay Jay at October 31, 2016 07:39 PM (PvCxa)I'm on something called the evolutionary diet (think close relative of the paleo diet). Part of the process is elimination of all sugar from my diet. It was difficult for a while but I sugary stuff now holds absolutely no appeal for me--truly none. It's amazing.
Salty and crunchy--that's another matter.

Posted by: Northernlurker at October 31, 2016 07:47 PM (hJrjt)

226 Caligirl: is your doc overweight? I don't obsess about macronutrients. If you eat high protein, any you don't use goes out through the kidneys, which is not good for old folks. We now know about 10% of protein will be stored as glucose, so high protein, low carbs is silly, because the protein gets converted to carbs. High fat is a LOT of concentrated calories, 9kcal/gram, as opposed to 4kcals with carbs. Alcohol is 7 kcal /gram. And some fat will be converted to carbs as well, depending on what the body needs. This varies from person to person, which is why studies lack consistency, but in my view it's still more about portion control. I'll even tell people they can eat "fast food", as long as they make it. but I've heard Taubes three times. BTW , he looks like he died a week ago, and is absolutely the worst public speaker I've ever heard. At meetings, they usually put him in the last hour or two on the last day, when you're exhausted and he's great for insomnia. Look at his you tube stuff. Lustig is a better speaker except he clears his throat every 15 seconds.

Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 07:49 PM (5NEuS)

227 Ace,
to help keep the motivation, start training for some events like a GoRuck, or a Mad Mudder. Bike racing is cool too. Something that gives milestones within the larger picture of milestones of reaching a certain weight. Works great for me. Goals within goals...some deep thought shit there probably. hmmm

Posted by: fastfreefall at October 31, 2016 07:54 PM (dSwnn)

228 I heard on the radio the things people give the kids
when they run out of candy. The funniest one was Taco Bell hot sauce
packets.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 06:47 PM (Q5Ymk)

==========
That made me literally LOL! Thx CaliGirl

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the Deplorable Standard Rednecks at October 31, 2016 08:11 PM (BcNLK)

229 Speaking of Lyle McDonald and body temperature, I think he estimated a 1 degree drop in body temp to equate to a 10% metabolic slowdown. I spoke with Marty Gallagher back in the day about monitoring morning temperature and he was pretty much of the opinion that the average Joe didn't need to get that much into the weeds and could use other indicators and if you weren't average Joe you'd be using some pharmaceuticals.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at October 31, 2016 08:21 PM (utkBt)

230 Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 07:41 PM (Q5Ymk)

I took a tip from you last week or so. I took a 4 oz ground beef patty (90/10) from Sam's Club, browned it in the pan with some coconut oil, added chopped onions, garlic, roasted red pepper flakes and some taco seasoning. Put spinach leaves in a bowl, added the meat, some mexican cheese and ranch dressing.

Delicious!

I've had it a few times since then, including tonight. Simple to make.

Keep those dining tips coming! I pay attention when CaliGirl speaks!

Posted by: Sixkiller at October 31, 2016 08:29 PM (mFA3Z)

231 Fat bombs (well made) are REALLY satisfying and keep the ketosis going. Coconut oil, unsweetened cocoa powder, butter, liquid stevia, 6 carb/serving peanut butter. Amazing.Adam's brand creamy is what I used. Satisfies the chocolate/candy/fat desires.

Posted by: Seems Legit at October 31, 2016 08:37 PM (xEZkG)

232 I'm like Skip--I eat what I want and my weight has stayed the same except for pregnancies and chemo since I was sixteen.

But weight is only one marker. Since I switched to a high protein diet a few years ago, I've dropped three drugs. Used to take a statin--my last test, my doctor said I had the highest good/bad cholesterol ratio she had ever tested. Blood pressure--gone. GERD--gone. My last bone density scan, doctor called the next day to say I had the bone density of a woman in her 20's. (I'm 74.) Height's the same, shoe size the same.

There's a lot more to celebrate than a number on a scale.

Posted by: Wenda (sic) at October 31, 2016 08:49 PM (pZEKq)

233 >>> I know my face has lost its puffiness and not a single person has commented--not one, other than my wife.

These other people emphatically are not why I'm doing this but it puzzles me a bit.

...

i find that as well. However, these people see you day in day out. You can't notice things when you see them happening gradually.

I just saw someone I hadn't seen in a while and he immediately commented I had dropped a lot of weight.

the people I see more frequently never notice.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 08:57 PM (8rNrN)

234 I've gotten a lot of comments about it myself. (40# in six months.)

I think because my face starts to narrow out really fast. My body, you can't necessarily tell all that much (in clothes), but my face for sure.

I've gotta watch for it aging me, I suppose, but I haven't seen it so far.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 09:02 PM (CcUfv)

235 Maybe I'm a genetic freak but I've been doing low cal and lifting since June, I've lost 40+ lb and haven't been hungry. I haven't been at my current weight since 9th grade (and I'm in my 30's). It doesn't seem that awful. I shoot for 1-3lb weight loss per week and don't drive myself crazy. I indulge once in a while, especially if I've been losing quick and am due for a stall (though I've only had a couple weeks where I did everything right and didn't lose weight). Red wine in moderation seems to help. Also if I'm going to hit that cheese cake I make sure I lift on those days especially so I'm putting the calories to use.

Also I did finish high school.

Posted by: m-zero-x at October 31, 2016 09:03 PM (zWTYO)

236 >>>he problem with LCHF is that society is against you. The only place you can eat, is at home, practically. When that changes, and the tide is beginning to change, then the LCHF will be easier.

sort of. a lot of crap meals can be made ballpark-compliant just by skipping the carbs --eat the cheese on pizza but not the bread, eat the burger and cheese but not the bun, skip all pasta that comes on the side, etc.

most stuff in a restaurant will have a fair number of hidden carbs (meat marinated in a sweet sauce, for example) but you can at least avoid the obvious sources.

Posted by: ace at October 31, 2016 09:09 PM (8rNrN)

237 I've been pretty happy with IF. It isn't costing me much effort to stay one. That's one big cut in the 'eat less' side of the teeter totter.

Where I'm falling down is the exercising. I know what to do: just basic pushups, situps, squats and curls will get me most of the way there. Heck the 24 Hour Body Kettlebell swings will get me most of the way there, losing weight. It has before.

But self-motivating has always been hard for me. I can discipline myself, but it takes effort. And I'm married and having other related issues where I don't care about my health like I should. I'm not motivated to lose weight, I'd just...sorta kinda like to.

It's a puzzle that only I can solve, I guess.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 31, 2016 09:16 PM (hR1Jj)

238 Carl's has a protein burger. In 'n' Out does "protein style". Wendy's has good salads.

When I was doing LC (less HF, more HP) I did okay eating out. I'd think it might be easier with HF, but I'm not sure.

Posted by: moviegique at October 31, 2016 09:17 PM (CcUfv)

239 I took vitamins for a while several years ago. I was on a fancy, expensive regimen that had me taking three different tablets twice a day. It was like $36 a month.

I didn't notice that much of a difference. It might've been in part because I was younger.

Recently, though, I've noticed my health deteriorating because I'm getting older and still not taking very good care of myself. I was having all sorts of minor, nagging health issues for a while, there.

I decided to try taking vitamins again. This time, though, I tried something different. I grabbed a cheap-ass bottle of store-brand men's gummies from Target. $7 for a 75-day supply.

This has made a huge difference! I'm sharper and more alert all day, and those aches and stiffnesses and inflammations I was feeling all the time are all gone after just one week on these new vitamins.

I think the biggest difference is the fact that they're gummies and not tablets. You chew them and eat them and actually digest them, rather than just swallowing those rock-hard tablets that probably end up just getting pooped out intact later.

I keep them on the footboard of my bed, and I eat two of them right when I wake up. This has also had the effect of giving me a noticeable energy boost in the early morning. And, really; who doesn't want an energy boost right after waking up for work?

So, yeah; try gummi vitamins, rather than tablets. I'm convinced that the gummi is a vastly superior delivery system.

Posted by: The Deplorable Prothonotary Warbler at October 31, 2016 09:22 PM (0OG8D)

240 Thanks to your posts Ace, I started Keto in September. I'm down 30lbs so far. I plan on being on this 'diet' from now on.

Posted by: Eggo at October 31, 2016 09:28 PM (C7e+O)

241 Here's a better idea: cycling. No, not the bike with a motor, the one with pedals. And age is no barrier/excuse. Started when I was 55. Got the 10 speed down off the wall & went 1 mile the first ride. Gradually built up distance. Didn't really realize the calories burned until I did a 50 mile organized ride that offered pizza as an after ride meal. I was so famished I ate half of a large pizza. A very large pizza. It was then that I realized why pro riders pick up a meal - DURING THE STAGE - of ever stage race in the Tour De France - because the calories burned is enormous, whether you are racing or just riding. If you are not a cyclist now, start out small like I did and gradually increase distance. Then go until you're famished. Then go some more. Bonus: none of the jarring road shock of running, and much faster. And every other rider out there will be glad to help.

Posted by: Devan at October 31, 2016 09:46 PM (kC+1/)

242 Posted by: macleod at October 31, 2016 07:49 PM (5NEuS)
No, my doctor is an athlete. He's in great shape. He's probably in his early fifties.
He told me the diet will work, and you (me) don't have a weight problem. I told him I wanted to lose 10 pounds.
I was there for a sinus infection. He's a family practice Dr.
I never had a weight problem. I'm getting older and surgical menopause and I realized I can't eat like I could when I was young.
I may have said low carb. I really don't remember how I asked. He told me to cut out sugar and flour, processed food and I would lose weight. He did say he liked that diet. But that may have been patient specific. I don't know.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 10:01 PM (Q5Ymk)

243 Posted by: Sixkiller at October 31, 2016 08:29 PM (mFA3Z)
I'm glad you like that. You can also serve it over chopped cabbage too. I like avo and sour cream on top, and lime juice.
The other thing I ate that helped was wraps I've been using romaine or iceberg leafs instead of bread.
I like this one, my husband calls it chick food.
Sliced strawberry, goat cheese, chicken and spinach with balsamic vinegar.
Berries have lower carbs than other fruit.
I'm on maintaining weight now.
We have chickens so I've been making frittatas and having that for lunch with a salad.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 10:15 PM (Q5Ymk)

244 Posted by: The Deplorable Prothonotary Warbler at October 31, 2016 09:22 PM (0OG8D)
Nurses call vitamins bed pan bullets.

Posted by: CaliGirl at October 31, 2016 10:22 PM (Q5Ymk)

245 I will second this post. I can get down to 218. That's it and that's all. There is nothing I can do to get lower than that. I was eating about 1100 calories a day and working out for over an hour a day and I could not budge below it. It caused me to stop ovulating, I was bonking, tired all the time, a complete bitch to my family, obsessed with everything I put in my mouth. Walked every lunch. Worked out every evening. All I had was salad with meat and usually hamburger with tomatoes and spices of some kind for supper.

What inevitably happens is that I say "fuck it" and gain it all back. I don't know if I can go through the effort and fail again.

Posted by: mullingthingsover at October 31, 2016 10:32 PM (6jt6G)

246
Posted by: mullingthingsover at October 31, 2016 10:32 PM (6jt6G)

Was that strictly the 'eat less, exercise more' type diet, or LCHF with IF?

Posted by: Sixkiller at October 31, 2016 10:36 PM (mFA3Z)

247 #244: Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about, CaliGirl! Vitamin tablets are worthless. You swallow them, and then you just shit them out.

Gummi vitamins actually get digested and properly absorbed into your system, though. The effects of the gummi are immediately noticeable, in the form of a quick energy boost.

Posted by: The Deplorable Prothonotary Warbler at October 31, 2016 10:37 PM (0OG8D)

248 My limit 's 250 lbs. If you even get one pound below that I have an insatiable appetite.I'm 6'3" so 250 isn't a big deal, but I feel your painz with gainz.

Posted by: Shefpan at October 31, 2016 10:47 PM (flBhb)

249 Was that strictly the 'eat less, exercise more' type diet, or LCHF with IF?
Posted by: Sixkiller at October 31, 2016 10:36 PM (mFA3Z)
I ate vegetables, meat, healthy fats (including real butter and home rendered lard), vinegar and spices. Ranch dressing on my salads. Bananas and sweet potatoes. That was it. The thing is, I wasn't hungry but I wasn't eating enough.

So, yes, it was eat less, work out more. It was not possible for me to eat less and it was not possible for me to work out more. I had to drag myself home from a few walks, almost having to call someone to come get me. Headaches, my heart beat funny, etc. Starving myself and working out and couldn't lose a pound for about 4 months straight. Right at the point where I always stop losing. After I didn't ovulate for 2 months in a row (and it hasn't really come back yet after about 6 months) I quit.

Posted by: mullingthingsover at October 31, 2016 11:54 PM (6jt6G)

250 i am down 100+ pounds and have kept it off since February. Started losing Jan of last year.

Look for "keystone habits" you can trigger that each contribute to your goal. i am on the treadmill now, so my typing is harder to do. My treadmill desk enables me to get up at 5 and walk 12 miles each day.

you are spot on about how different weight loss levels require different actions/habits to acheive

Posted by: steve poling at November 01, 2016 07:27 AM (db5YN)

251 Ah, fidgeting and weight loss. I used to unconsciously jiggle my leg up and down constantly. I never noticed it, while it bothered those around me. After much conscious effort, I extinguished that fidgeting. I started gaining weight after that. Now, I'm trying to lose some. It isn't easy. And I've tried consciously bringing back the fidgeting- but CAN'T!

Posted by: gospace at November 01, 2016 09:43 AM (esQWj)

252 59 >>>55 Have you considered Ketone supplements as the Staying power?
Posted by: KetoDan

i've read about them but i'm not sure what the point is as far as weight loss -- ideally, the point is to produce your own ketones from body fat, not to just ingest them from outside sources.

The point of them, as I understand it, is to get a competeitive edge in some athletic performance, not as a weight loss aid.

>>> Ace, try searching for Rob DeBoer or Dominic D'Agostino on FB. They'll do a much better job of explaining exogenous ketones than I could. I just know they help me jump start the ketosis without having to be so strict on the diet. My wife and I have been on them since May, and I am down to a svelt 150 lbs at 5'5" and 54 years old. (I've even seen 149). I've never really been vastly overweight, but have lost that last 10 lbs I've always dreamed of.

Posted by: KetoDan at November 01, 2016 09:54 AM (Ay5s1)

253 More comments to dead thread regarding temperature: have been some interesting studies related to rising obesity levels and ambient temperature. It's not just people getting fatter. Or cats and dogs. It's hamsters, gerbils, lab rats, lab primates, you name it. Some suspect that the ability to live in fairly constant thermal environments keep our bodies from adjusting to regulate temperature with a changing outside environment or keep that gap to smaller levels. So we could be arguing over macros or meal timing when the real culprit is that we live in a climate-controlled environment 24/7. Turn your heat down in the winter and turn the AC off in the summer. (Of course truth is it's like that mystery where ten people all killed the same person - we're getting done in by everything - climate control, light pollution at night/less natural sunlight, less sleep, hormone disruption, processed foods and easy availability, larger meal sizes, higher carbs, misunderstanding of fats, less active lifestyles, less Winona loving, sugary drinks, dick punching, manbuns, etc etc)

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy, storyteller at November 01, 2016 10:46 AM (k96HJ)

254 Very nicely done. A good thing to tattoo on the forehead of all the "if you just pushed yourself away from the table and took the stairs once in a while you wouldn't be fat" types. Genetics loads the gun, behavior pulls the trigger, and making that internal mechanism understand you don't want to be ::that:: size is bloody difficult.

Posted by: og at November 01, 2016 12:09 PM (jyqWk)

255 I think I'm going to have to try fasting. I dropped 25 pounds pretty quickly like Ace said but have been solidly stuck at the post -25 weight for almost a month while still moderating my intake. The only exception (not a surprise) was the 36 hour period that I fasted for a colonoscopy prep. Given that I have an almost pathological hatred of exercising, gyms and the like, I either need to be at peace with what I weigh now (within the upper acceptable limit) or do something else.
Damn, but I do miss the days when I could eat whatever I wanted and not put on the pounds.

Posted by: natasha333 at November 01, 2016 01:43 PM (1zkLv)

256 The main thing with low calorie is not to put yourself into metabolic slowdown. If you're fantasizing about food, it means you need to eat more (just stay away from the donuts). If that's not possible maybe it's not the diet for you but it kind of sounds like people who fail at it over do it.

Posted by: m-zero-x at November 02, 2016 07:17 AM (zWTYO)

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