Since The Very #Principled #NeverTrumpers Never Talk About the Downside of Electing Their Preferred Candidate Hillary Clinton, I'll Talk About It A Bit

I always had a secret respect for Rosanne Barr's politics. No, not her actual politics -- I thought they were daft.

But the respect was due to her talking about things that actually mattered, even if her prescriptions about those things was completely wrong and harmful.

I contrast her to the typical lifestyle liberal who is economically well-off enough not to have to care about things like OSHA and unions. I don't support unions, don't get me wrong. (Well, I would if they were properly constructed and limited instead of being artificially-government-empowered organizations for graft.)

But rather than talking about the typical lifestyle liberal's litany of very airy abstract concerns -- global warming, gay marriage and gay wedding cakes, pronoun "misgendering" etc. -- she was talking about improving the financial circumstances of the lower classes.

Now, again, her prescriptions were entirely wrong. But at least she was talking about something that mattered a bit more than not at all.

I find this sort of thing going on with the GOP's very-proud-to-have-a-very-basic-college-degree class. All they want to talk about is airy abstraction like the "health of the party" and "political philosophy."

They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers.

The actual working classes of this country are being decimated partly by natural market forces (and that's fine, if regrettable) and partly by intentional government policy (and that's not so fine).

Nor do they seem to want to talk about the tangible consequences of a Hillary presidency. They just want to talk about "recapturing the party" and "renewing the party" and that kind of airy facile nonsense that is only of interest to someone who is financially well-off enough to be largely immune from the maladministration of government.

I don't begrudge them their apparent exalted financial situation due to being fortunate enough -- or, let's be fair, having worked hard enough -- to not really care about average median income stagnation or the fact that the US has the lowest labor participation rate since the bomb that was the Carter Economy of the late 1970s.

It can't be held against them that they are prosperous -- prosperity is to be celebrated. (Though find a Republican besides Donald Trump who has the simple courage to utter such an inoffensive statement.)

But what can be held against them is their utter parochialism and proviciniality, in which they take their own experience to be that of all other citizens and/or cynically ignore all citizens whose financial status puts them in a more precarious position than they themselves occupy.

So, for all the people dishonestly campaigning for Hillary without admitting it (in order to keep on track in their real first priority -- career advancement), here are some of the consequences that "Saving the Party by Giving the White House to Hillary for Four or Eight Years" will have on people whose salaries are not guaranteed by deep-pocketed donors.

1. The Supreme Court Shifts Unalterably to the Hard Left for a Generation.

Scalia's dead, Ruth Bader Ginsberg is ancient, Clarence Thomas is getting long in the tooth, Anthony Kennedy's old, Steven Breyer is old.

The only youthful justices are Roberts -- and you know, you can always count on him on a tough vote -- Alito, Kagan, and Sotomayor.

It's those last four who will be on the court in eight years -- everyone else is going to be replaced in the next four or eight years.

Keep this one in mind: it has a big impact on some of the points that follow.

2. Obamacare Will Be Patched Up by an Illegal, Unauthorized Executive-Action Slush Fund.

As you know, Obamacare is in its death spiral. As predicted, it is not taking in as much money as it is spending out.

There are only two solutions to this:

1. Raise the prices of Obamacare, but this is not a solution, as the prices are already too high and raising prices will only expedite the death spiral, or

2. Illegally divert general taxpayer funds to shore up Obamacare, by executive actions increasing and extending "risk corridors" and other such workarounds.

That's all illegal, you say. Well, Health and Human Services has already illegally diverted Three Billion Dollars to this illegal cause already, and no one's going to jail for that.

Now you say: That is so illegal the Supreme Court will knock down any executive orders spending money that Congress hasn't authorized.

Will they?

See point one and note that Elena Kagan was part of the team that designed and sold Obamacare to Congress.

Also note that the Court, whenever it likes, can read into an act's preamble -- something something "for the purpose of making health care available to all" something something -- an explicit (they will claim) authorization to use whatever means are necessary to keep the the law "working the way it was intended to."

Remember, the law plainly did not authorize subsidies for exchanges created by the federal government, but the Supreme Court, led by Roberts, said that they would read the law as authorizing such subsidies because without such a Judicial Edit, the purposes of the law would be thwarted.

You sure the Court isn't willing to do some more Judicial Editing?

Especially once it's stacked and jacked with Young Turk liberals who will be serving Democrat presidents for 40 years?

3. An Increase in the Tempo and Illegality of "Dear Colleague" Letters Issued by the Justice Department's Office of Civil Rights.

As you're no doubt aware, the Office of Civil Rights pressured colleges into instituting Rape Kangaroo Courts through a "Dear Colleague" letter that essentially threatened to cut off their federal funding if they did not strictly enforce the OCR's new reading of Title IX.

You may also be aware that the Office of Civil Rights imposed a new directive on colleges to read Title IX -- which formally speaks of protecting women and girls -- as also protecting Transgenders, including male-to-"female" transgenders, who are not women or girls.

What authority did they have to do this? None at all. But the courts did not stop them.

Increasingly, the federal government is enacting laws it could never actually enact through constitutional means by simply threatening to withdraw funds if targeted organizations do not obey the de facto law they are now illegally announcing, and then relying on the indulgence of the courts to make it all look street-legal.

This will not only continue under Hillary Clinton -- it will accelerate.

Again, see Point One.

Also note this: Every bizarre idea you see pushed by the left becomes the accepted law of the land within two to three years.

Before the left began demanding Christians bake them bake cakes, the idea of such a thing was insane, and anyone who argued that the gay marriage law would wind up compelling people to participate in gay marriages was ridiculed as a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

Yet two years later, those paranoid conspiracy theories became the law of the land.

Right now we're seeing various localities make it a crime to "misgender" people.

You think Hillary's government is going to stay out of that racket? Or do you think it's likely that some more Dear Colleague letters will issue and that will become the law of the land in two or three years?

Never forget, the left must continue picking fights with the right in order to keep its voters voting. Even if everyone on the right accepts gay marriage, but adds "But you can't force churces to participate," what do you think the left's next move is?

The left must now begin agitating to force churches to perform gay marriage. For if they don't -- if they simply leave the policy as it is -- then what can they offer their supporters? How can they differentiate themselves from the right (who, in this hypothetical, accepts gay marriage except in the churches)?

The logic of the left -- to always be the aggressors in the culture wars and always spit venom and hatred at those who oppose their new social engineering initiatives -- demands they always move forward, like sharks.

I laugh when I see National Review or other "conservative" magazines still bothering to pretend they oppose this. Still getting clicks for the latest outrage they can point to from the left, from the wacky college campuses.

Meanwhile, they're actively campaigning for more of it, to empower this regime, to encourage it, to expand it.

You're signing up for four to eight more years of unending social aggression from the left, discarding your one chance to actually do a god-damn thing about it, so just spare me your make-pretend, this-should-get-us-easy-clicks ginned up outrage about it.

Apparently your preferred method of opposing unconstitutional government coercion is to just keep churning out clickbait snark about it. Because that's been working like gangbusters so far.

I will add the rest of the list later. I think one through three is enough for the first half of a post.

Posted by: Ace at 03:12 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Thank you!

Posted by: HH at September 29, 2016 03:11 PM (DrCtv)

2 In.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'I'm not dead yet! at September 29, 2016 03:11 PM (3VwJI)

3 OK. Read post.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'I'm not dead yet! at September 29, 2016 03:12 PM (3VwJI)

4 Right back.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'I'm not dead yet! at September 29, 2016 03:12 PM (3VwJI)

5 Ace, glad you're feeling better. This is more like it.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at September 29, 2016 03:12 PM (kfcYC)

6 Thanks Ace.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'I'm not dead yet! at September 29, 2016 03:13 PM (3VwJI)

7 Ok-- As much as Ace is writing today--I'm pretty sure his eyeballs are better.

Posted by: rld77 WAY down south at September 29, 2016 03:14 PM (VzCZ2)

8 But these NeverTrump Republicans get to tell their liberal friends they didn't vote for Trump!

I'm not kidding, that's probably fueling 99% of this.

A pat on the head from people that hate you.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:14 PM (onbPc)

9 Thank you Ace. A Nevertrumper who understands the things you reference and stays a Nevertrumper is a person I just don't get.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 29, 2016 03:14 PM (DDM7c)

10 spot on, the NTs act like "well magically Grammy will be moderate", well "no"....

Grammy don't golf period.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 29, 2016 03:14 PM (SzZnW)

11 Traditional American Patriotic Nationalism is what the doctor ordered.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:14 PM (hLRSq)

12 yay, nevertrump lecture. keep em coming, I'm sure all 1% of them will be convinced. Me? I'd prefer Trump do the things he needs to do to win. Organize for turnout, prepare for debates, figure out how to hit one of the worst candidates to ever run for president.

Posted by: Reality Man at September 29, 2016 03:15 PM (Ch0fq)

13 Question for the NeverTrumpers assuming that their chosen candidate will sweep to victory in 2020.

What's to stop Hillary and the weaponized federal bureaucracy from seizing her opponent's campaign coffers in late September? From announcing FBI investigations or Justice Department indictments of key campaign staff, or even the candidate himself, on "corruption" charges?

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 03:15 PM (Z075/)

14 This must have been some movie.

Posted by: Garrett at September 29, 2016 03:15 PM (0BkbS)

15 time out--gotta make peanut butter chocolate chip cookie bars to go with afternoon coffee

Posted by: rld77 WAY down south at September 29, 2016 03:15 PM (VzCZ2)

16 I often would immiserate with the people of El Eppo.

Posted by: Garry Johnsen at September 29, 2016 03:15 PM (vtcmf)

17 If there was no such thing as the Supreme Court, I think you could "sort of" make a case against Trump.

I still wouldn't buy into it, but I could somewhat understand.

Instead, this "I told you so" moment you so want the day after the election will have consequences decades from now.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:16 PM (onbPc)

18 The donations to the Clinton Foundation will all need to be payed back.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:16 PM (ofpt4)

19 Romney to me is more liberal than Trump. Yet I pulled the lever for him.

Anyone who can't do the same for Trump can go scratch.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at September 29, 2016 03:18 PM (5JBUT)

20 Here admition that all illegals will become citizens, and borders will have no meaning.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:18 PM (ofpt4)

21 And those are just the less painful parts.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:18 PM (39g3+)

22 Ace isn't even really attacking #nevertrumpers. He's attacking a made up, straw man version of a nevertrumper that exists only in his mind. Much easier to do a My Team vs. Their Team if you don't think of them as people.

Hey: what happened to the Ace at the end of the last election who decided he wasn't going to carry water for bad nominees anymore?

Posted by: Just Me at September 29, 2016 03:18 PM (dIGPU)

23 "You're signing up for four to eight more years of unending social aggression from the left, discarding your one chance to actually do a god-damn thing about it, so just spare me your make-pretend, this-should-get-us-easy-clicks ginned up outrage about it."

But this Mr. Trump does not have the proper motivations and beliefs, he does not do things in the proper manner and he is not the proper man - have you seen his hands?

No - if the crusade cannot be led by a perfect knight then it is best it never be launched.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:18 PM (hLRSq)

24 Never forget, the left must continue picking fights with the right in order to keep its voters voting.

------------------

Until the day they just do away with voting altogether.

Posted by: josephistan at September 29, 2016 03:18 PM (7HtZB)

25 Low intensity civil war - that's what we're in now. It will ratchet up no matter who wins, but if it's Trump, I and people like me won't be the ones getting purged and re-educated. So there's that.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at September 29, 2016 03:19 PM (vtXNT)

26 10 spot on, the NTs act like "well magically Grammy will be moderate", well "no"....

Grammy don't golf period.
Posted by: sven10077

OMG, you're right. Imagine how bad Obama's Presidency would have been if he hadn't 60 % his time playing golf and /or vacationing. Spine-chilling.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at September 29, 2016 03:19 PM (kfcYC)

27 Drudge has a video up of a Hillary crowd chasing and beating a Trump supporter wearing a hat. This is where Hillary is taking us.

Posted by: MTF at September 29, 2016 03:19 PM (/m8T6)

28 Ace, you forgot

4. The SJWS will press their momentum to the fullest and completely run the table on all progressive social issues and strongarm all of society into a nightmare vision of their leftist utopia.

Count on it.

Posted by: zombie at September 29, 2016 03:19 PM (jBuUi)

29 1,2,3....

All this and everything else that's inevitably going to go wrong will still be Republicans fault.

Posted by: DaveA at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (8J/Te)

30 The SJWS = The SJWs

Posted by: zombie at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (jBuUi)

31 And was thinking today all those pleading the 5th or had immunity in the Clinton Email fiasco will all have jobs in the Clinton administration

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (ofpt4)

32 Instead, this "I told you so" moment you so want the day after the election will have consequences decades from now.

Since I don't have kids, not a huge deal.

However, when if ass rapes their children & grandchildren, they can talk to the hand.

Because I won't give a shit.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (ApT0U)

33

In this building up to a creshendo thing, you don't want to peak too soon.

Maybe a little peak now, and three weeks of recuperation before you start building up to the peak just before the election.

You have to pace yourself.

Posted by: Frod Gnebbisher at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (hG9Dn)

34 I hate to go straight off-topic (I usually wait for 100 comments), but I have a medical question that the horde might be able to offer some insight on.

I'm going away this weekend and I'll be staying in a cabin with three #nevertrump guys. What's the best way to ward off or mask the smell of their shrivelled, sandy little vaginas?

Posted by: Phone of kari which, deplorably, features a headphone jack at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (Ou6/U)

35 Ace isn't even really attacking #nevertrumpers. He's attacking a made up, straw man version of a nevertrumper that exists only in his mind. Much easier to do a My Team vs. Their Team if you don't think of them as people.
Posted by: Just Me

I disagree, these people are very real.

George Will, Kristol, Erickson, Ed Morrisey, National Review, Hot Air, etc. Basically the once biggest names in conservative opinion leaders.

The real question is, how many of them are there really outside of DC?

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (onbPc)

36 Hey: what happened to the Ace at the end of the last election who decided he wasn't going to carry water for bad nominees anymore?

Posted by: Just Me at September 29, 2016 03:18 PM (dIGPU)

Hey, maybe he just got a good, hard, look at Minas Morgul and decided that ragged ranger from the North was a better bet than letting Sauron win.

But I could be wrong.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (hLRSq)

37
The govt (both parties) want a lower class. The last thing they want is a large majority of the public to be happy about their circumstances. They would then have no raison d'etre.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (ODxAs)

38 Great post ace! Is your head feeling better?

Posted by: @votermom's phone at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (9dfN4)

39 To "NeverTrump" (persona under a new sock, I suspect) this is why the "angst" about you choosing at this late hour to run down the anti SJW candidate this cycle. You might only be 1% of the electorate and be able to sway 2% more. Let's even propose that this is all clustered in upper middle class "SWPL" regions of Virginia and Colorado, not so much Indiana. That 3% is the margin of victory.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (jYiRF)

40 I don't think ace should switch to being a democrat.

I think it's the nevertrumpers that should be doing that. Spare us and go be with the people you really want to be with, and stop with the moral preening principled conservative bullshit.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (5JBUT)

41 Just needed to re-read Codevilla's article, and buy more ammo.

Posted by: Roy at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (VndSC)

42 27 Drudge has a video up of a Hillary crowd chasing and beating a Trump supporter wearing a hat. This is where Hillary is taking us.
Posted by: MTF

Were they wearing brown shirts? If not, they should be.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (kfcYC)

43 26 Posted by: Dirks Strewn at September 29, 2016 03:19 PM (kfcYC)

She also is frail she won't be using Air Farce Won as a commuter car.

The woman will work her ass off fucking over America as much as possible.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (SzZnW)

44 Obamacare Will Be Patched Up

And it still won't work or diagnose HRC's eyeskew.

Posted by: DaveA at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (8J/Te)

45 There are #NeverTrumpers, some quite famous

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:21 PM (ofpt4)

46
Right back.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'I'm not dead yet! at September 29, 2016 03:12 PM (3VwJI)
__________________________

I wish I could get my right back....

~sniff-sniff~

Posted by: Michelle Fields at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (HSmrB)

47
I'm going away this weekend and I'll be staying in a cabin with three #nevertrump guys. What's the best way to ward off or mask the smell of their shrivelled, sandy little vaginas?
Posted by: Phone of kari which, deplorably, features a headphone jack at September 29, 2016 03:20 PM (Ou6/U)

A necklace of garlic cloves and a cross?

Posted by: Moki at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (VnCI9)

48 Maritime, NR is based in NYC I think

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (jYiRF)

49 A lot of supposedly very bright people seem to have no sense of the long game. Just to be clear, I agree totally with Ace on this.

And this list is only a partial accounting of the post-constitutional hell we may be facing.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (7ZVPa)

50 "What's the best way to ward off or mask the smell of their shrivelled, sandy little vaginas?"

Cheap whiskey and cigars.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (hLRSq)

51
Never forget, the left must continue picking fights with the right in order to keep its voters voting.

And must therefore always side with that which is wrong.

Posted by: t-bird at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (2z74n)

52 I'm going away this weekend and I'll be staying in a cabin with three #nevertrump guys. What's the best way to ward off or mask the smell of their shrivelled, sandy little vaginas?
******************

Grill whiskey burgers. The scent of evaporating whiskey can do away with the most rancid of smells.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (5JBUT)

53 >>>38 Great post ace! Is your head feeling better?

thanks. it's feeling a bit better. Maybe the salt worked. Maybe it was the eight tabs of Excedrin Migraine. Who can tell.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (dciA+)

54 I'm just glad no one got hurt in the train wreck today!

Posted by: Gary Johnson at September 29, 2016 03:23 PM (fgOnp)

55 Regardless of who wins in Nov, the GOP is in need of a purging.

Posted by: @votermom's phone at September 29, 2016 03:23 PM (9dfN4)

56 Maritime, NR is based in NYC I think
Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo

Okay, but it's very much part of the DC industry of politics.

When I say "Wall Street", I know a lot of them live and work in Connecticut as well

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:24 PM (onbPc)

57 There are a few #Nevers here who think Hillary winning is going to be just another 4 years like Barak.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:24 PM (ofpt4)

58 Ace, I worked in mining for several years, and suffice to say that many of them (UMWA) heartily regret their decisions of 2008. It is too late, but they regret it deeply.

You are spot-on about the concerns of the middle- and lower-class. GOP has abandoned them completely, but so have what I call the "hipster-class", highly educated and highly comfortable urban and suburban people who have no interest beyond Buzzfeed snark and the next iPhone offering. I am not sure that at some point, welfare will not be enough to placate the working class/lower class any longer.

Then, it will really get ugly.

Posted by: Me at September 29, 2016 03:24 PM (RYASC)

59 Plus this: whatever stupid, crazy, or bad crap Trump wants to do, he'll face near-solid opposition from congress and the press. Hillary will be obeyed like the voice of shrieking harpy goddess on high by everyone.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:25 PM (39g3+)

60 Just don't drink any valurite for a few days, ace, with so much acetaminophen in your liver.

Posted by: @votermom's phone at September 29, 2016 03:25 PM (9dfN4)

61 There are a few #Nevers here who think Hillary winning is going to be just another 4 years like Barak.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:24 PM (ofpt4)

Weren't the last 8 bad enough? Why would anyone want 4 more?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 29, 2016 03:25 PM (493sH)

62
thanks. it's feeling a bit better. Maybe the salt worked. Maybe it was the eight tabs of Excedrin Migraine. Who can tell.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:22 PM (dciA+)

Coat your stomach, Ace. The excedrine Migraine is like battery acid. It's great on migraines, but eat something with it. A good protein would be best, or at least some yogurt. Ulcers are no fun.

Posted by: Moki at September 29, 2016 03:25 PM (VnCI9)

63 Drudge has a video up of a Hillary crowd chasing and beating a Trump supporter wearing a hat. This is where Hillary is taking us.
Posted by: MTF

Were they wearing brown shirts? If not, they ~~should~~ will be.

#soon!
#twoweeks!

Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 03:25 PM (ApT0U)

64 Also, she's a cross-eyed bitch.

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:25 PM (HgMAr)

65 Also note this: Every bizarre idea you see pushed by the left becomes the accepted law of the land within two to three years.

************************************

Common-Sense, Universal, Mandatory Sodomy For The Children!

Posted by: ok, thanks, bye at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (ucB75)

66 They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers.

Fuck those guys. They should just die anyway.

Posted by: Kevin D. Williamson at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (0mRoj)

67 The National Review types have outed themselves as wannabe members of the establishment; this 'NeverTrump' crap is just their price of admission.

Take Andrew McCarthy at NR; this jazzbo swore up and down that his good personal friend and associate James Comey would be a sure thing to do the correct thing in the Hillary email fiasco. 'Just such a straight shooter!', Andy assured us.

Of course, Comey flopped in the tank so quick half the water blew over the side, and our hero Andy was just perplexed that this could happen.

"Not the James Comey I know!" he wailed.

Then, come to find out courtesy of the nekulturny types at Breitbart that Comey had a long history of shady self-dealing at the government trough, and his flop was pretty much pre-ordained.

And now the NR types can't figure out why nobody pays any attention to them anymore; after all, they know so many important people!

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (nd1zx)

68 I'm cautiously optimistic Clinton will lose. (And yes, I've also been reading and listening to S. Adams).

Did you guys see Clinton yesterday at the rally with Bernie Sanders? She looked barely "there" while he was speaking. Sitting down behind him in a chair while she stared out into the crowd with a half-gaze. She is far from healthy. She is going to have another serious episode in public like the 9/11 seizure. Americans will elect a boor over a corpse.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (Uy6ri)

69 Ace - that's a lot of stuff. I am not signing up for Hillary for one year or four. I know she may yet be elected, but it didn't happen yet. It doesn't matter what Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Hayes say (nor John Podhoretz).

et al.

Not giving up. Let's elect that goofy, inarticulate guy, with too much self-tanner, an unfortunate hairdo and some repugnant fans.

I'm all in.

Posted by: grandmalcaesar at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (yrohn)

70 First time commenter and feel the need to inject a little positive onto ace's negative mood. I am a half white, half Mexican woman with a college degree, with two college educated sons, who both own their allotment of seventeen guns, a third son who just turned eighteen, registered as a Republican and picked up his very first rifle last night - oh and we live in CA and we all are voting for Trump!

Posted by: T-Squared at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (VkAIj)

71

But my principles!

My lovely, lovely principles!

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (zu88C)

72 "They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being
de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the
remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers."

I take umbrage with this as they do care, they want them to die

Posted by: the dude at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (SyKbw)

73 Maybe it was the eight tabs of Excedrin Migraine. Who can tell.

Migraine aspirin pills, even the generic ones at Wal*Mart made of chalk and chicken beaks work like magic for me. Takes a little while but the headache and stomach misery and all goes away.

Eating helps, too. I forget to eat when I'm working quite often.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (39g3+)

74 delegationdoctricemotherfuckersspeakit

I contrast her to the typical lifestyle liberal who is economically well-off enough not to have to care about things like OSHA and unions. I don't support unions, don't get me wrong. (Well, I would if they were properly constructed and limited instead of being artificially-government-empowered organizations for graft.)

Gah. The other stuff is very interesting and important and more urgent so I have a humble request.

*is humble and whatnot*

ace, if you need a thread topic for a slower news day, would you please expand on what you believe to be the proper role of unions. Because I have all kinds of conflicting thoughts on that and I am sure that your post will be interesting and the comments. Okay the comments will be um interesting in another way. But still. That's a topic that deserves separate treatment. Please.

Posted by: alexthechick - but I have chocolate chip cookies so that's okay then at September 29, 2016 03:27 PM (mf5HN)

75 You are correct, Ace.

This election matters more now than so many others.

Posted by: 80's music fan at September 29, 2016 03:27 PM (PHcLa)

76 Never forget, the left must continue picking fights with the right in order to keep its voters voting.

--

As some Moron pointed out, this is exactly why BLM picks shootings that are justified to riot about. They never puck shootings whete the cop actually was wrong.

Posted by: @votermom's phone at September 29, 2016 03:27 PM (9dfN4)

77 >>>
Coat your stomach, Ace. The excedrine Migraine is like battery acid. It's great on migraines, but eat something with it. A good protein would be best, or at least some yogurt. Ulcers are no fun.

i really didn't have it. I meant to take it but mistook a tylenol bottle for excedrin and had that instead.

now I can't have excedrin because I already had the tylenol.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:27 PM (dciA+)

78 Two thoughts here from me:

1) Dear #NeverTrumpers: Never let your ego get so close to your position that when your position goes, your ego goes with it. Your egos are way overinflated and tied to a shitty position. I sucked it up and pulled the lever for your shitty candidates Romney and McCain. I didn't get the candidate I wanted out of the primaries. Tough shit for me, but the alternative is concretely going to be bad, whereas we have a punchers chance of emerging relatively intact with Trump.

b. If Hillary is elected I think we seriously start moving rapidly toward a balkanization of the United States. At the end of the day, that's not a good thing.

III: I know I said two things, but were told there would be no math. Either way the election goes, I think we're probably past the tipping point anyway; we're almost out of other people's money and the FSA only grows more ravenous. A Trump win just delays the inevitable and gives those of us so inclined for time to prepare.

Posted by: Country Singer (gab @BertG) at September 29, 2016 03:27 PM (uiwCw)

79 for = more

Posted by: Country Singer (gab @BertG) at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (uiwCw)

80
Never forget, the left must continue picking fights with the right in order to keep its voters voting. Even if everyone on the right accepts gay marriage, but adds "But you can't force churces to participate," what do you think the left's next move is?

THIS RIGHT HERE was my primary reason to oppose gay marriage. I honestly don't give a shit about men marrying men or women marrying women. The moral arguments for or against don't interest me in the slightest.

But early on, as in DECADES ago, it was obvious that SSM proponents were building up gay marriage to use as a bludgeon to attack and destroy organized religion in the US, specifically Christianity and Judaism.

I'm not a church-going person, but I don't want to see a United States where the devout have to go underground in order to worship in peace. Because 1st Amendment, of course, but mostly because Western Civilization would not exist without the Judeo-Christian tradition. Destroy Christianity and Judaism, and civilization DIES.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (MjHtC)

81 Best-case scenario if Hillary wins:

She will retreat into a Fuhrerbunker of paranoia and imperious whim, and will spend all her energy not promoting leftist agendas but instead punishing her personal enemies and setting up a graft/corruption system that will last for decades. She will prove that she really doesn't have any ideology at all besides ambition and power-hunger, and simply become a non-ideological tyrant.

I can dream, can't I?

Posted by: zombie at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (jBuUi)

82 I can only shutter at the thought of a Hillary DOJ, and her admition of overturning Citizens United

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (ofpt4)

83 Another consequence...

I believe, under Trump, and with new trade policies (and possibly tariffs/VATs) the economy could actually have flourished... at least it is a possibility.

There is absolutely no possibility of economic growth and, especially, job growth under a Hillary administration which will do exactly the same stupid shit Obama did.

Wages will continue to stagnate - or even fall as she opens the flood gates to more cheap brown workers.

This country is headed south.. When revenues dry up.. when outlay becomes double of what they're taking in.. and when interest rates rise and we have to start paying the piper on all this debt, the whole fucking thing will collapse.. like Venezuela.. and the free shit army will hit the streets.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (so+oy)

84
First time commenter and feel the need to inject a little positive onto
ace's negative mood. I am a half white, half Mexican woman with a
college degree, with two college educated sons, who both own their
allotment of seventeen guns, a third son who just turned eighteen,
registered as a Republican and picked up his very first rifle last night
- oh and we live in CA and we all are voting for Trump!

Posted by: T-Squared

----------------

Welcome!

Pics?

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (zu88C)

85 >>>ace, if you need a thread topic for a slower news day, would you please expand on what you believe to be the proper role of unions. Because I have all kinds of conflicting thoughts on that and I am sure that your post will be interesting and the comments. Okay the comments will be um interesting in another way. But still. That's a topic that deserves separate treatment. Please.

i don't know enough. I once asked Mickey Kaus if he had some recommendations for non-Wagner-Act unions, so that they would not be organizations of industrial sabotage, and he said he had no firm ideas, and that was the extent of my research into the matter.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (dciA+)

86 If Hillary wins, she and her cohorts will re-make all 49 states in the image of California. Think about it. Over regulated, bankrupt thanks to a Dem super majority and unfettered immigration.

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (a0IVu)

87 Not a damn thing in this list is exactly unlikely from a President Trump. Where did all this faith and trust in his decisions and politics come from? The year or so of playing a Republican/conservative caricature? I'm not convinced people actually listen to the man, because it's evident he doesn't know what he's talking about when he tries to talk policy beyond bumper sticker slogans, and when he does try he sounds like the Democrat he really is. This is your candidate on Obamacare: "We're going to take care of them through maybe concepts of Medicare.
Now, some people would say, "that's
not a very Republican thing to say." That's not single payer, by the
way. That's called heart. We gotta take care of people that can't take
care of themselves." And THIS is the guy your trusting not to patch up ObamaCare, or make it even worse?

Posted by: NeverTrump at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (gI9Bk)

88 12 yay, nevertrump lecture. keep em coming, I'm sure all 1% of them will be convinced. Me? I'd prefer Trump do the things he needs to do to win. Organize for turnout, prepare for debates, figure out how to hit one of the worst candidates to ever run for president.
Posted by: Reality Man at September 29, 2016 03:15 PM (Ch0fq)

First, many of us are doing just what you prefer.

Second, the Nevertrumpers tend to show up here to argue. Ace is wrong to address his readers?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (ujg0T)

89 Posted by: T-Squared at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (VkAIj)
...............

Right on.
And welcome from another CA resident.

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (HgMAr)

90 Sweet Lord ace! 8 tabs! 1000 mg of Aspirin! +1 to what Moki said! PLEASE take somthing to coat your stomach!

Posted by: Jackal at September 29, 2016 03:29 PM (/VCVg)

91 57 There are a few #Nevers here who think Hillary winning is going to be just another 4 years like Barak.
Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:24 PM (ofpt4)

My guess is that they were around for the first Clinton years, and think that they are getting Bill. He was bad, but not horrible, at least compared to now. You didn't feel like he hated Americans who didn't agree with him-even if he did.

But Hilz???? She won't be like that. She has already stated that she finds half of the American population to either be her enemy, or baskets of deplorables. So why would you, (rhetorical you, not you personally) who claim to be conservative, vote for someone who has outright said she hates you? That just does not compute.

Posted by: Moki at September 29, 2016 03:29 PM (VnCI9)

92 I sucked it up and pulled the lever for your shitty candidates Romney and McCain.

----------

I'm fairly certain that neither of those two candidates were the candidates of choice for most NeverTrumpers.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:29 PM (gmeXX)

93 "George Will, Kristol, Erickson, Ed Morrisey, National Review, Hot Air, etc. Basically the once biggest names in conservative opinion leaders."

You do realize those people often talk about how horrible Hillary is as a politician and individual? Ace has constructed a rather fantastical straw man he labels as #NeverTrump just so he can feel better about railing against something. The fact is, not voting for Trump doesn't equate to voting for Hillary anymore than not voting for Hillary equals voting for Trump (and to continue with that absurd logic, if I fail to vote for both does that mean I support both?).

Apparently in Ace's world view, an individual can't possibly be against being a part of handing the office over to either of these two idiots; it's a binary election dontcha know! So, the beat continues another day, it's not the candidate who is flawed and the root cause of all this angst, it's classism or elitism, but it can't possibly be the candidate's fault. Nope. Trump is the best option, and he's done yeoman's work shoring up support within the party like his great plans to force businesses to pay for maternity leave, or expand medicare, or violate our 2A rights with lists. Yup, if you're not for that you're just not an American.

Posted by: Sean at September 29, 2016 03:29 PM (JWRY9)

94 @70 T-Squared "half white, half Mexican woman with college degree"

We have a rule here.
"Send photo

of rifle."

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 03:29 PM (H5rtT)

95 Just as an example I live in a pretty "tony" neighborhood and there is a guy not too far from me has a few candidate signs in his yards, several of which is a local state republican that actually got a lot of heat for supporting ObamaCare.

She's the ultimate liberal RINO and doesn't hide it. Nobody would say otherwise. That sign is in several places in his yard.

And also, a lot of Gary Johnson for President (libertarian) signs are in his yard.

This upper class is peachy keen with ObamaCare supporting Republicans, but they will probably try to explain that Trump is unacceptable over policy disputes. But not the ObamaCare supporting Republican. No problem there.

I get the issue with Trump on a personal level, the policy stuff is a bullshit smokescreen. These people just don't want to seem white trash to their peers.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:29 PM (onbPc)

96 T-squared that is awesome!!!

Posted by: @votermom's phone at September 29, 2016 03:30 PM (9dfN4)

97 Look at the Massachusetts AGs jihad on the 2A via "reinterpretation" of 20 year old settled law, legislating by 'regulations', and defacto making stuff illegal by "guidance" letters or enforcement notices threatening lawsuits. Ipso facto threats of persecution for 400k residents in blatant violation of state and federal constitutions. Ignoring of public record requests. Open warfare on people and things they dislike with the indifference of the legislature and judiciary. That's whats coming soon if the bitch is elected.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at September 29, 2016 03:30 PM (Sqor6)

98 Trump was about the last person on the long list that I was willing to support, but he is now the last person standing in the way of a bona fide Mafioso taking the white house keys. Therefore, as with every primary and election since 1992, I vote against the Clinton.

Given that, I'd like someone who would vote for Clinton over Trump to give me one or two valid examples of where Trump is lacking versus Romney or McCain. Other than a casual speaking style, I can't really come up with anything.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at September 29, 2016 03:30 PM (7ZVPa)

99 Oh and #neveracitaminophen. NEVER. Do want to kill your liver?

Posted by: grandmalcaesar at September 29, 2016 03:30 PM (yrohn)

100 Posted by: T-Squared at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (VkAIj)

...............

Right on.

And welcome from another CA resident.

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (HgMAr)
Too bad everyone in CA is so spread out, it would be nice to meet up for drinks.

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:30 PM (a0IVu)

101 >>>90 Sweet Lord ace! 8 tabs! 1000 mg of Aspirin! +1 to what Moki said! PLEASE take somthing to coat your stomach!

i was just being silly. I had two tabs of tylenol.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:30 PM (dciA+)

102 >>>ace, if you need a thread topic for a slower news day, would you please expand on what you believe to be the proper role of unions. Because I have all kinds of conflicting thoughts on that and I am sure that your post will be interesting and the comments. Okay the comments will be um interesting in another way. But still. That's a topic that deserves separate treatment. Please.

i don't know enough. I once asked Mickey Kaus if he had some recommendations for non-Wagner-Act unions, so that they would not be organizations of industrial sabotage, and he said he had no firm ideas, and that was the extent of my research into the matter.

-------------

In a free market economy unions would simply not exist. Not because people don't have a right to organize, but because management would find ways around them.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (gmeXX)

103 Thanks for the welcome!

I thought pics weren't allowed...

Posted by: T-Squared at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (VkAIj)

104 I sucked it up and pulled the lever for your shitty candidates Romney and McCain.

You can only eat so many shit sandwiches before you lose your appetite for shit sandwiches.

Posted by: V the K at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (O7MnT)

105 Here's what I'm working on.

Is Clinton obsessed with actual fundamental change? Or is she just saying shit so she can line her own pockets?

Obama is a true believer and that's pretty bad. I don't know that Clinton is a true believer...she's after power and stuff to enrich herself. Which is also bad in a different way of course.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (eytER)

106 She will retreat into a Fuhrerbunker of paranoia and imperious whim, and will spend all her energy not promoting leftist agendas but instead punishing her personal enemies and setting up a graft/corruption system that will last for decades. She will prove that she really doesn't have any ideology at all besides ambition and power-hunger, and simply become a non-ideological tyrant.

I can dream, can't I?
Posted by: zombie
................
Uhh.. look at Ace's #1..

Unfortunately, she will stuff the Supreme Court with liberals who will go along with every one of her Executive Orders.. Congress will be completely bypassed. She will will her leftist programs into being by fiat. And no one will be able to stop her.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (so+oy)

107 This is an interesting article on the large group of white voters who haven't come out in years and could elect Trump.

http://tinyurl.com/goumcjx

Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (kZVsz)

108 When is traditional October surprise time? Because that is when Assange (trump) is going to dump the goods. Is it first week of October or what? Can't wait!

Posted by: james at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (jxw6R)

109 The trolls live to jump on new ace threads.
I think the pay rate is higher for comments under 100

Posted by: @votermom's phone at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (9dfN4)

110 Sweet Lord ace! 8 tabs! 1000 mg of Aspirin!

Come on people, I don't understand why you take goofy stuff like that seriously. Its not like Ace is a retard with a leather cap on to protect himself from injury here.

Well, usually.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:32 PM (39g3+)

111 Thanks Ace. You've been the wisest voice in this craptacular election cycle--no one else even close.

The NeverTrumpers are becoming increasingly dead to me. Trump has released a list of Federalist Society approved judges for SCOTUS--something we've never had before from a GOP nominee--and it's still not good enough for them. Not much of a Trump fan, but we're doomed to a generation or more of Leftist totalitarianism if they're 7-2 in control of SCOTUS.

Posted by: T-Lo at September 29, 2016 03:32 PM (zrU0r)

112 When is traditional October surprise time? Because
that is when Assange (trump) is going to dump the goods. Is it first
week of October or what? Can't wait!

Posted by: james at September 29, 2016 03:31 PM (jxw6R)

week or 2 before election

Posted by: the dude at September 29, 2016 03:32 PM (SyKbw)

113 ace absolutely correct, yet over-determined.

What I mean is "never Trump" is not a serious position, in what is currently a binary major party system (de facto, not that it should be, always was, or always will be).

There is little doubt that Hillary represents, at the least, a continuation of the disasters of the last few years. It's a lock. With some extraordinarily bad, step-function disasters like SCOTUS and lower court appointments.

There is always the possibility that a Trump victory would NOT lead to radically better outcomes on 1) rule of law/mass immigration lawlessness 2) energy policy 3) regulatory drag on the economy/personal freedom, which has become ruinous in many cases 4) non-insane foreign policy fecklessness on major issues like Iranian nukyler ambitions/hegemonism.

The possibility.

It is literally a comparison of what comes as close to a certainty in human affairs, vs. very real possibilities of much, much, much better short- and medium-term outcomes.

It's not a difficult choice. And that is seen as difficult, or even impossible, choice by some is a reminder that we didn't get where we are simply due to the familiar litany of "FSA!/"march through the institutions!"/"biased media!". It has taken some help from the clueless, impractical, and self-referential "conservative" elements along the way.

Posted by: rhomboid at September 29, 2016 03:32 PM (QDnY+)

114 to be the proper role of unions.

Like every other middleman that can leverage government power to avoid the limits of their economic benefit. To grow parasitically until they kill the host.

See Lawyers, Brokers, etc. for some other examples.

Posted by: DaveA at September 29, 2016 03:33 PM (8J/Te)

115 101: Yeah I just say your earlier post upthread. Whew. 1000 mg of ASA is alot!

Posted by: Jackal at September 29, 2016 03:33 PM (/VCVg)

116 First time commenter and feel the need to inject a little positive onto ace's negative mood. I am a half white, half Mexican woman with a college degree, with two college educated sons, who both own their allotment of seventeen guns, a third son who just turned eighteen, registered as a Republican and picked up his very first rifle last night - oh and we live in CA and we all are voting for Trump!

Posted by: T-Squared

----------------

Welcome!

Pics?
Posted by: Mortimer

She didn't mention a hubby! 'rons, there's a possible available 'ette. Behave and play nice.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 03:33 PM (ApT0U)

117 Posted by: NeverTrump at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (gI9Bk)

Seriously, what is the point of you wagging your limpy dick around while trumpeting your nevertrump creds?

What exactly are you hoping to achieve here?

Posted by: #NeverHillary at September 29, 2016 03:33 PM (5JBUT)

118 You do realize those people often talk about how horrible Hillary is as a politician and individual? Ace has constructed a rather fantastical straw man he labels as #NeverTrump just so he can feel better about railing against something. The fact is, not voting for Trump doesn't equate to voting for Hillary anymore than not voting for Hillary equals voting for Trump (and to continue with that absurd logic, if I fail to vote for both does that mean I support both?).

Posted by: Sean

That's bullshit and you know it. You have to choose a side, and not choosing is a choice.

Also, I never understood the concept that voting for one side or the other obligates you to agree and love them on every possible level.

I have reservations about every candidate I vote for, but you have two choices and make the one closest to your worldview.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:33 PM (onbPc)

119 Good points all. I think we will also see increased ongoing use of the IRS to harass and suppress political opponents, pay for play, and using the DOJ to cover for unlawful activity of the administration. The already gelded Congress will become even more irrelevant, erasing any semblance of representation of the populace in DC.

Posted by: Insomniac - Irredeemably Deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:34 PM (0mRoj)

120 ace,

Stronglifts app 5x5 ? GAINZ kill MiGRAINZ !!

*kidding*

chocolate, caffeine, alcohol, lack of sleep, eyestrain or any combination thereof = migraine cocktail *avoid*

Feel better soon.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:34 PM (zu88C)

121 70 First time commenter and feel the need to inject a little positive onto ace's negative mood. I am a half white, half Mexican woman with a college degree, with two college educated sons, who both own their allotment of seventeen guns, a third son who just turned eighteen, registered as a Republican and picked up his very first rifle last night - oh and we live in CA and we all are voting for Trump!
=========================

You, maam, are a great American. But I feel obliged to warn you ad your fine boys that you can never have too much ammo.

In fact, I'm going to get a new hat "Moar Ammo!" to wear instead of my Trump hat so the mob doesn't attack me.

Posted by: MTF at September 29, 2016 03:34 PM (/m8T6)

122 Conservatives already lost this election. We are now faced with picking what flavor our loss comes in. Trump flavor has the hope it will be less awful than Hillary flavor which we can all agree is putrid.

The problem with that hope is Mr. Trump himself. He is not now and will never be conservative. He may do some things conservatives like but he may do some things we will hate. It just depends on how he feels he needs to act to close the deal that day or hour or minute... Terror list gun ban is perfect example. His feelz tell him terrorists shouldn't have guns. Because he has no core principles except "I win" he can't see the Bill of Rights problems with it.

Hillary must lose. But Trump may be just as bad. It's how we each perceive the slim hope he won't that leads us all to attack our allies. 2016 sucks balls.

Posted by: The Sampo at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (VnP/f)

123 "Romney to me is more liberal than Trump."

*sigh*

Can we not do this? Let's at least be honest with ourselves about what we're doing.

Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (mrfTe)

124 The NeverTrumpers are becoming increasingly dead to me. Trump has released a list of Federalist Society approved judges for SCOTUS--something we've never had before from a GOP nominee--and it's still not good enough for them.

-----------

If Trump fails to get someone from that list appointed, will you at least acknowledge that some NeverTrumpers were right?

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (gmeXX)

125 57 There are a few #Nevers here who think Hillary winning is going to be just another 4 years like Barak.
Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:24 PM (ofpt4)

That's exactly the problem. It will be.

At some point, liberal pop culture and media incense will no longer hide the stench of national gangrene setting into the body politic.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (ujg0T)

126 Trump speech in NH right now is pretty much the things he shoulda said at the debate, 'follow the money' and he's 'sad' lol

Posted by: firehorse at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (//TVq)

127 120: Add dehydration to that. That'll bring on a headache as well.

Posted by: Jackal at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (/VCVg)

128 92 I sucked it up and pulled the lever for your shitty candidates Romney and McCain.

----------

I'm fairly certain that neither of those two candidates were the candidates of choice for most NeverTrumpers.
Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:29 PM (gmeXX)

I'm fairly certain they were.

Posted by: Buzzion at September 29, 2016 03:36 PM (z/Ubi)

129 I think unions are only valuable in a cyclical manner. That is, with a properly free market, they'll be necessary as a corrective measure at times when the pendulum swings too far in the direction of savage, heartless greed and unethical business practice.

The flaw in that system is that there's no other check to the pendulum. What happens when the workers get too much power and strangle the economy to death? What happens when unions get too much power and destroy businesses?

There needs to be a check on the other side, too, and there isn't one, other than just shutting down and jobs moving to other countries. A proper corrective would limit and weaken unions until they were no longer damaging, not just destroy the economy.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:36 PM (39g3+)

130 I thought pics weren't allowed...

Topless.

It's not exactly required but it's pretty much expected.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 29, 2016 03:36 PM (mgbwf)

131 The fact is, not voting for Trump doesn't equate to voting for Hillary anymore than not voting for Hillary equals voting for Trump (and to continue with that absurd logic, if I fail to vote for both does that mean I support both?)
*****************

Please dispense with the fucking bullshit. I know a lot of conservatives who stayed home because they could not pull the lever for Romney. Their choice helped lead to an Obama win.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at September 29, 2016 03:36 PM (5JBUT)

132 I thought pics weren't allowed...
.............

Along with certain comments they are mandatory.
Like for instance you happen to mention that new bikini you just bought.

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:37 PM (HgMAr)

133 I'll give Trump this - he definitely has stamina; 2-3 rallies a day, zipping from state to state. Having your own jet helps for sure, but it must be exhausting.

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:37 PM (a0IVu)

134 87 Not a damn thing in this list is exactly unlikely from a President Trump. Where did all this faith and trust in his decisions and politics come from? The year or so of playing a Republican/conservative caricature? I'm not convinced people actually listen to the man, because it's evident he doesn't know what he's talking about when he tries to talk policy beyond bumper sticker slogans, and when he does try he sounds like the Democrat he really is. This is your candidate on Obamacare: "We're going to take care of them through maybe concepts of Medicare.
Now, some people would say, "that's
not a very Republican thing to say." That's not single payer, by the
way. That's called heart. We gotta take care of people that can't take
care of themselves." And THIS is the guy your trusting not to patch up ObamaCare, or make it even worse?
Posted by: NeverTrump at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (gI9Bk)

Four justices likely to be picked. Not one. Four.

Sure the GOP president will give us a Souter from time to time, but you can be sure you will get four Elena Kagans from the Clitler.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:37 PM (ujg0T)

135 Posted by: zombie at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (jBuUi)

Hillary's Personal Enemies List
(1) Republicans
(2) Rednecks
(3) Obamas
(4) Susie Dunkwiler who got to be hall monitor in third grade! I'll pull your pig tails out I U)({GH_(PH)*GOGHJH*(UY+IMIPJ_*(U)+k

*seizes, foams, is given electroshock treatment*

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:37 PM (hLRSq)

136
They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers.

----------------------

When you purify your ideology, you must get rid of the impurities.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (oGNNA)

137 Four justices likely to be picked. Not one. Four.

---------------

Who was the last President to nominate 4 justices?

I'd say it is rather unlikely.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (gmeXX)

138 Too bad everyone in CA is so spread out, it would be nice to meet up for drinks.

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:30 PM (a0IVu)

---
anyone up for an LA area MoMe at a shooting range?

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (aEZpQ)

139 Can we not do this? Let's at least be honest with ourselves about what we're doing.
**********************

Sorry but it's true. Romney was the most eminently liberal shitturd candidate. Absolutely no comparison.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (5JBUT)

140 Ace,
Don't forget the nationwide implementation of AFFH and the death-wish refugee policy that's waiting for us if Hillary wins.

Posted by: me at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (oR3Qq)

141 When is traditional October surprise time? Because that is when Assange
(trump) is going to dump the goods. Is it first week of October or what?
Can't wait!

Here's one they're calling a teaser, if it hasn't been covered yet.

http://tinyurl.com/zqmgbnv

Posted by: dartist at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (3zi7q)

142
Come on people, I don't understand why you take goofy stuff like that seriously. Its not like Ace is a retard with a leather cap on to protect himself from injury here.

Well, usually.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:32 PM (39g3+)

Hey-it's important to me that Ace stays well through the election cycle (and beyond) because he is one of the few sane speakers left. I'll shove yogurt parfaits through the port if I have to.

Posted by: Moki at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (VnCI9)

143 I have a theory about #NeverTrumpers...

They just don't like the guy. At all, on a personal level. The stuff about policy, principals, histroy, etc. is just logical justifications to explain the emotional reaction that Trump and his act just rubs them the wrong way.

Now, during the primaries I also had big time reservations about Trump's liberal/big-govt. instincts, and thought his boorish antics was unpresidential. And his bullshit attacks against my guy, Cruz, was infuriating. But, at the same time I found Trump entertaining and pretty fucking hilarious at times! So, when Cruz finally called it quits, I was very receptive to Join team Trump.

Show my a #NeverTrumper who likes Trump on a personal level, but is opposed solely on objective grounds. I don't think one exists.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (Uy6ri)

144 Elites, by and large, do better when it is a Government of Men, not a Government of Laws.

Why? THEY are the Men... they are the ones who decide who gets the benefit of government protection, and Largesse.

The Rule of law is there for the little people. Its there to be used AGAINST the elites.

Many of the MSM NeverTrumpers, are part of the elite. Thus it is not important to them if by electing Hillary, we destroy any confidence in the rule of law in this country.

Because being elites... they gain more from the rule of man, vice the rule of law.

Hillary is the Poster child of the destruction of the rule of law... and has been for over 30 years. She constantly bends and breaks laws, and gets away with it because.... Clinton....

To reward her with the Highest Office in the Land? To give someone so corrupt that much Executive Power? To put HER in charge of Law Enforcement?? and the Judicial System???

As Ben Franklin said.... 'A Republic Ma'am, if you can keep it'....

Posted by: Don Q. at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (qf6WZ)

145 >>>127 120: Add dehydration to that. That'll bring on a headache as well.

i had a workout last night that made me sweat a ton but then I had a big thing of Smart Water (it has ELECTROLYTES!) after. plus a protein shake which also had water.

I figured I'd rehydrated. Maybe I guessed wrong.

how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?!

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (dciA+)

146 127
120: Add dehydration to that. That'll bring on a headache as well.

-----

Yeah good point. The other items combine to dehydrate or exacerbate dehydration.

Drink a lot of water. And have sex. Lots of sex.

With another person.

In the room.

Participating.

Consentually.

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (zu88C)

147 If Trump fails to get someone from that list appointed, will you at least acknowledge that some NeverTrumpers were right?
Posted by: SH

Just like every other Republican President has failed to nominate perfect judges?

I will be the first to call Trump out if he betrays us, I'm not into the cult of personality.

But on judges, we know exactly what type Hilary nominates.

if Trump truly were a closet liberal, it would have come out now with the primary safely behind him.

We were promised by NeverTrumpers that Trump would morph into Bernie Sanders. Instead I hear about tax cuts, deregulation, conservative judges and the 2nd Amendment.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (onbPc)

148 "That's bullshit and you know it. You have to choose a side, and not choosing is a choice.

Also, I never understood the concept that voting for one side or the other obligates you to agree and love them on every possible level.

I have reservations about every candidate I vote for, but you have two choices and make the one closest to your worldview."

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:33 PM (onbPc)

I never said Trump had to align perfectly with my point of view, and I'm hardly a single-issue voter. However, when faced with an election (and not a gun to my head situation) where the two readily available options are both a) crap and b) completely unappealing to me on a majority of positions, why do you feel I should be forced to choose simply to placate your point of view?

Posted by: Sean at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (JWRY9)

149 Who was the last President to nominate 4 justices?

I'd say it is rather unlikely.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (gmeXX)

---
so we should take a chance on that happening with Hillary in office?

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (aEZpQ)

150 T-Squared come for the comments, stay for the entertainment

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (ofpt4)

151 I have sympathy with never trump types and it bothers me deeply when people savage them here or elsewhere.

If the GOP had picked Jeb Bush or Huntsman or someone like that, I'd have been a #NeverBusher. No more Bushes, no more Clintons, ever. Enough. I would not, under any circumstances, be moved into the vote Jeb camp, no matter how awful Hillary is. Enough, that is one GOPe too far.

Trump, for his host of many flaws, is at least not a part of that class. He's not from Harvard or Yale, he's not part of the country clubs, he never was photographed naked as a freshman and didn't spend a night in a coffin. He doesn't run with the in crowd in DC. He's a crappy choice, but he's not their crappy choice.

I get it, you had to choke back the vomit voting for McCain and Romney and don't want to do that again. Neither would I -- for Jeb.

But this ain't McCain/Romney, its another brand of stank.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:40 PM (39g3+)

152 Have we figured out Mohammed the train engineer's name yet? Oh wait, I shouldn't judge...

Posted by: MTF at September 29, 2016 03:40 PM (/m8T6)

153 If the NT's throw the election, I'm disengaging permanently because there is no point. Let them try to win elections on their own.

Of course, even with my/our help would be increasingly impossible as the number of 3rd world imports make it an impossible task. What they're doing right now is political treason as much as it is political suicide.

I agree with Ace. Maybe the best alternative is to help facilitate the decline. They think we'll come back? They can blow me. Maybe if we boil the frog quick enough, some of the semi-functional states will break off. There isn't another undiscovered continent to escape to from this tyranny. Besides armed resistance, we're running out of options.

Posted by: crrr6 (hotair refugee) at September 29, 2016 03:40 PM (t+REr)

154 Show my a #NeverTrumper who likes Trump on a personal level, but is opposed solely on objective grounds. I don't think one exists.
Posted by: Serious Cat

Bingo

It's deeply personal

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:40 PM (onbPc)

155 One thing about people like NeverTrump (and some our regulars) - they don't really know much about policy, or politics, or how things get done in Congress, or the courts, or any of the actual substance of, well, anything important.

Their world is one of quotes from NPR or blogs or witticisms on Twitter, generalities, mythology.

Trump may not believe a single important policy position he now presents in the campaign. It's possible. But not very likely.

It's that possibility, or the near certainty of catastrophe under Clinton.

Posted by: rhomboid at September 29, 2016 03:40 PM (QDnY+)

156 Hillary has said, in her own words, that if Congress doesn't give Hillary comprehensive immigration reform (i.e. "amnesty") she'll do it by executive order and then get it upheld with a new SCOTUS appointment. Holy separation of powers Batman!

This won't be the only trick she'll pull.

If Hillary wins, the growth of the Borg continues apace -- an unholy alliance of BigGov, MSM and Academia, which is melding. Some members of BigBiz are already a part of the this, and are increasingly aligning with the Cultural Left.

There comes a point where this is irreversible.

Posted by: Ignoramus at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (r1fLd)

157 Sure the GOP president will give us a Souter from time to time, but you can be sure you will get four Elena Kagans from the Clitler.

4 Wise Sotomayors.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (ApT0U)

158 anyone up for an LA area MoMe at a shooting range?

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (aEZpQ)
..............

Take me five hours to get there but would probably be worth it.

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (HgMAr)

159 "I will add the rest of the list later. I think one through three is enough for the first half of a post."

One through three is really all you need. If the only really coherent reason to vote Trump was the Supreme Court, I would be yanking that lever for him like I yank my Johnson to Kate Beckinsale in those Underworld movies.

Let me put a finer point on it. If Donald Trump was as left as a normative House of Representatives Democrat but I felt reasonably certain that he would nominate conservative Justices, I would still vote for him. You really can't underestimate the power of the Supreme Court in directing policy. Anything the left wants but can't get, they'll just bring suit in Federal Courts and it will wind its way to the Supremes who will deem it Constitutional.

Also to touch on Ace's point about slippery slopes, remember when the debate was about civil unions (I know, in retrospect it seems such a piquant time), How many conservatives argued against it claiming it was but a slippery slope to full on gay marriage? Defenders of civil unions said it was preposterous, tin-foil hat talk. How does that tin-foil hat fit you now?

The left never stops agitating, because they cannot. Progress can never be allowed to stagnate because without any brave, new frontiers to conquer how will a vastly atheistic population find their meaning in life?

Posted by: Lamont Cranston at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (Rtyzj)

160 'Immiserated' is a good word. Also, penury.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (QQ+il)

161
I can imagine a Hillary as President with a million little martinetts all running around like their heads were on fire, screaming, and all running in different directions. It would be chaos

I can Imagine a Trump as President and a million little martinetts all running in one direction, like a paniced mob, all intent on destroying Trump. It would be chaos.

So if there is an office pool, I'm putting $5 on chaos, global war, global thermonuclear destruction, and economic melt down.

I figure the odds are better than a lottery ticket.

Posted by: Frod Gnebbisher at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (hG9Dn)

162 "An Increase in the Tempo and Illegality of "Dear ~~Colleague~~ Comrade" Letters Issued by the Justice Department's Office of Civil Rights."
---------

Edited. More likely scenario.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (9mTYi)

163
I contrast her to the typical lifestyle liberal who is economically well-off enough not to have to care about things like OSHA and unions.
-------------------

The crusader voters. They're not voting on their behalf, but on behalf of the oppressed, disenfranchised millions in this racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, bigoted, lopsided, class-driven, endlessly hateful, imperialist hellhole of a country.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (oGNNA)

164 Ace forgot the most basic point - Hillary being elected doesn't just validate all her corruption and special treatment, it also validates Obama's increasing habit of ruling by decree.

Hillary, who will probably be facing a Republican House and Senate, will simply issue a flood of executive orders to completely transform the United States, and dare Congress to impeach her.

She'll spend Federal money in any way she wants, without regard to the Congressional budget, and dare Congress to impeach her.

As long as she has 34 Democratic senators, nothing will happen to her.

I'm no Trump fan, but electing Trump will restore the rule of law and the separation of powers - the Democrats and the media will insist on that.

Elect Hillary after Obama, and we move to one-person rule, where Congress will have as much authority as the Russian Duma under Putin.

Posted by: Joe Stalin, Progressive at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (Mrl1e)

165
anyone up for an LA area MoMe at a shooting range?
Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (aEZpQ)

Which one? In a city of 8 million there are only three and two require membership.

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (lKyWE)

166

That migraine slapped the silly out of Ace's brain cells.

Bravo!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (qCMvj)

167 One simple fix for private sector unions - only allow them to organize at one company.

Just as Ford isn't allowed to form a cartel with GM, the Ford labor union shouldn't be able to form a cartel with the GM labor union.

Suddenly unions have a real, self-interested, reason to want to keep whatever business they are part of going. This kind of pressure should keep them from making outrageous demands thinking the industry as a whole can take it, even if individual companies can't.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (X7E8f)

168 Ace, this Twitter shit is going to give you a heart attack.

Jonah Goldberg doesn't write a huge article to debate your tweets. He does it to combat your blog articles. Same thing with that British accented idiot.

Stick to the blog, write deep and quit being so reactive to those soon-to-be-unemployed assholes.

Posted by: jwest at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (Zs4uk)

169 I'll give Trump this - he definitely has stamina; 2-3 rallies a day, zipping from state to state. Having your own jet helps for sure, but it must be exhausting.

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:37 PM (a0IVu)

He's a self-described work-alcoholic. On Dr. Oz he told a story where he and his family went to a vacation destination where there was no contact with the outside world. After two days he was going stir crazy and bailed out early so he could go back to running his businesses.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (Uy6ri)

170 "Please dispense with the fucking bullshit. I know a lot of conservatives who stayed home because they could not pull the lever for Romney. Their choice helped lead to an Obama win."

Posted by: #NeverHillary at September 29, 2016 03:36 PM (5JBUT)

And why couldn't they vote for Romney? Was it a BS issue like his religion or a single-issue like his support for Obamacare-light in his state, or a litany of issues? In other words, do you blame them for not voting for Romney, or blame the candidate?

Posted by: Sean at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (JWRY9)

171 anyone up for an LA area MoMe at a shooting range?

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (aEZpQ)

I'd be interested.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (Z075/)

172 T-Squared come for the comments, stay for the entertainment

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (ofpt4)
..............

and the poetry

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (HgMAr)

173 and sometimes WE SING!

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (HgMAr)

174 150 T-Squared come for the comments, stay for the entertainment
Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (ofpt4)

I'm staying for the photos.

Posted by: josephistan at September 29, 2016 03:42 PM (7HtZB)

175 121 - Thanks for the compliment - I resemble that remark!
My boys understand the need for more ammo than they could possibly ever need - it's the impossible that keeps them on the constant search for more...

Posted by: T-Squared at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (VkAIj)

176 89

70 Posted by: T-Squared at September 29, 2016 03:26 PM (VkAIj)
...............

Right on.
And welcome from another CA resident.
Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:28 PM (HgMAr)

Sacramento area here. How about you two?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (ujg0T)

177 However, when faced with an election (and not a gun to my head situation) where the two readily available options are both a) crap and b) completely unappealing to me on a majority of positions, why do you feel I should be forced to choose simply to placate your point of view?
Posted by: Sean

Can you go through where Trump is unappealing on a majority of your positions as a conservative?

I mean, deep down, I knew Romney wanted Universal health Care or his own version of ObamaCare, but I still found him to easily be a better choice than Obama.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (onbPc)

178 143
They just don't like the guy. At all, on a personal level. The stuff about policy, principals, histroy, etc. is just logical justifications to explain the emotional reaction that Trump and his act just rubs them the wrong way.
Posted by: Serious Cat at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (Uy6ri)

Exactly. I have yet to see an exception.

And excellent post, ace.

Posted by: rickl the deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (zoehZ)

179
Hey, maybe he just got a good, hard, look at Minas Morgul and decided that ragged ranger from the North was a better bet than letting Sauron win.

But I could be wrong.

---

you'll hope for Aragorn
You'll settle for Theoden
You'll get Denethor

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (PNcou)

180 "They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being de-instrustrialized..."

It's more than that. During the first stand-off between ranchers and the BLM in Nevada, Harry Reid said something to the effect that "that's not the kind of industry we want in our state". At first I thought he was specifically targeting ranching (and he likely is), but I've realized since that the left is attempting to destroy every industry that involves extracting resources or building things that last longer than a wedding cake.

Mining -- "bankrupt the coal industry", "those coal people". Drilling -- look at all the lies they constantly spew about fracking. Farming -- some of the recent requirements for nutrition labels and "food safety" are targeted at the boutique farms you'd think they'd love; about the only farming they'll tolerate is growing grapes for wine (but not raisins; see VDH).

They really seem to think we can maintain an economy as an endless series of vacation resorts and sports franchises, with "government" skimming off what they need to keep rich.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (fVubI)

181 I would be yanking that lever for him like I yank my Johnson to Kate Beckinsale in those Underworld movies.

Who knew the Shadow was such a pervert?

Hillary being elected doesn't just validate all her corruption and special treatment, it also validates Obama's increasing habit of ruling by decree.

Hillary, who will probably be facing a Republican House and Senate, will simply issue a flood of executive orders to completely transform the United States, and dare Congress to impeach her.

She won't have to at first -- the GOP will cave utterly to kiss the feet of the empress for the first year or so, then start fighting to prove they should be reelected.

But yeah, you're right in general

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:44 PM (39g3+)

182 125 57 There are a few #Nevers here who think Hillary winning is going to be just another 4 years like Barak.
Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:24 PM (ofpt4)

That's exactly the problem. It will be.

At some point, liberal pop culture and media incense will no longer hide the stench of national gangrene setting into the body politic.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (ujg0T)

I think it will be worse. Combine TFG's hubris and lawlessness with Hillary's paranoia, hostility and vindictiveness. Not a pretty picture at all.

Posted by: Insomniac - Irredeemably Deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:44 PM (0mRoj)

183 We're singing?

*puts on Sunday best tutu*

Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 29, 2016 03:44 PM (mgbwf)

184 how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?!

---
as an old Cav medic, i'll give you the easy way to tell if you're hydrated:

if you don't have to urinate every few hours, and/or your urine is not clear to light yellow (unless you recently took a multi-vitamin), you're not hydrated.

also, you need to drink more if you're consuming caffeine or alcohol, as both are diuretics.

personally, i drink a gallon or so of water every day just hanging around the house. that can go up to 2-3 gallons if it's hot and/or i'm doing physical labor.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:44 PM (aEZpQ)

185 On another site, I recently gave some similar reasons why I'm voting for Trump (to a NeverTrump Horde member I respect) even though I've grown to truly despise him and his enablers at Brietbart, Drudge, et al. I tried re-posting it here, but the system wouldn't allow it for some reason.

Posted by: lowtech redneck at September 29, 2016 03:44 PM (egK2C)

186
70 First time commenter and feel the need to inject a little positive onto ace's negative mood. I am a half white, half Mexican woman with a college degree, with two college educated sons, who both own their allotment of seventeen guns, a third son who just turned eighteen, registered as a Republican and picked up his very first rifle last night - oh and we live in CA and we all are voting for Trump!

-------------------

w00t

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at September 29, 2016 03:44 PM (oGNNA)

187 anyone up for an LA area MoMe at a shooting range?

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (aEZpQ)

Will it have a bar?

Posted by: Cicero -- Profoundly Deplorable But Pretty Dependable at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (8ZskC)

188 Also, expect all parts of the Federal government to become completely weaponized.

Contribute to Republican candidates?

Publicly criticize President Hillary?

Expect a nightmare of IRS audits, and everything else that the Federal government can throw at you under President Hillary.

Posted by: Joe Stalin, Progressive at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (Mrl1e)

189 179, Sacramento area here. How about you two?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (ujg0T)
I'm in the Thousand Oaks area (Ventura County). Anyone nearby?

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (a0IVu)

190 We could just meet somewhere in Boyle Heights, that's a shooting range isn't it?

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (HgMAr)

191 how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?!

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (dciA+)

You want your urine to be very light yellow, like a straw color.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (hLRSq)

192 Ace, it is so clear to you and us, your readers, yet the elites and "intellectuals" cannot figure it out. So much for their ever so nuanced perception.

On the other hand it could be plain malice.

Posted by: Decaf at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (8zHLN)

193 Santa Cruz county here.

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:46 PM (HgMAr)

194 ?Why won't Trump do what I want him to do? 1111!!!!///!!!!
'
'????

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Imperialist. Unprincipled. Vulgar Trump-tard. at September 29, 2016 03:46 PM (d76uN)

195 Who was the last President to nominate 4 justices?

I'd say it is rather unlikely.
Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (gmeXX)

Paging Life Expectancy Acturarial Tables....Paging Life Expectancy Acturarial Tables....

Look at their ages, my dear.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:46 PM (ujg0T)

196
'Immiserated' is a good word. Also, penury.

--------------------

'lethiferous'

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:46 PM (zu88C)

197 Ace---"how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?! "

Depends on the fish fucking density

Posted by: rld77 WAY down south at September 29, 2016 03:46 PM (VzCZ2)

198 One simple fix for private sector unions - only allow them to organize at one company.

That is a good, simple fix: introduce competition into Unions. So the GM union and the Ford union are opposed to each other as well as the bosses of their company. That way they're more likely to work for their employees than for the unions.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:46 PM (39g3+)

199 I'm in the Thousand Oaks area (Ventura County). Anyone nearby?

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (a0IVu)

I'm a grad student at Cal Lutheran. I'm currently living in Santa Paula.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (Z075/)

200 "Ace isn't even really attacking #nevertrumpers."

Because those clowns won't actually take stands, so he can't go after their arguments.

Which, really, they don't have. What #NeverTrump is about is class standing, and getting pissy because the proles are getting full of themselves.

Which *blows my mind* when it comes to the National Review crowd. Did they ever think who would have been included in the first 500 names in the Boston phone book? People who make Trump seem like Winston Churchill.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (fVubI)

201 Here's what I expect from a Hillary administration:

* Pretty much the entire federal budget will be a slush fund for her cronies
* The entire Administrative Branch will be fully weaponized as a sword of vengeance against her enemies
* 2nd Amendment repealed for all practical purposes
* 1st, 4th, and probably a few other Amendments gutted
* Bombing random shitholes and/or promoting crazy SJW bullshit whenever she feels she needs a ratings boost and/or distraction
All with zero questioning or accountability from the media or any congressional Republicans.

Posted by: Cave Johnson at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (Oh6Hh)

202 I never said Trump had to align perfectly with my point of view, and I'm hardly a single-issue voter. However, when faced with an election (and not a gun to my head situation) where the two readily available options are both a) crap and b) completely unappealing to me on a majority of positions, why do you feel I should be forced to choose simply to placate your point of view?
Posted by: Sean
..............
There might as well be a gun to your head.. when Hillary comes to power, you will feel quite like that.

I hate having Trump as our candidate.. simply hate it. I hate him too.. he's a lazy, pompous dick. But I have to vote for him. I simply have to.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (so+oy)

203 64 Also, she's a cross-eyed bitch.

---

Who would be a poor man, a beggar-man, a thief
If he had a rich man in his hand
And who would steal the candy
From a laughing baby's mouth
If he could take it from the money man
Cross-eyed Hilary goes jumping in again
She signs no contract but she always plays the game
She dines in Hampstead village on expense accounted gruel
And the jack-knife barber, drops her off at school

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (PNcou)

204 'Immiserated' is a good word. Also, penury.
Posted by: Grump
------------

Is gold not only the elixir vitae of alchemy but also the petard upon which the alchemist dies immiserated, his hopes transmuted into despair, his body worn to a skeleton?
"A Carrion Death": the theme of the gold casket in The Merchant of Venice

Posted by: Bill Shakespeare at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (9mTYi)

205
Romney is in theory exactly what the NRO class claims the Republican party needs. Amusingly the left made the same argument during the primaries.

And seeing as he is a left leaning technocrat - and a damn good technocrat - seems to back that up.

However, he obviously lost the election, and the left treated him the same as Trump in the general election....

Posted by: 18-1 at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (X7E8f)

206 how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?!

Invest in a filter pitcher and keep your glass full of ice. Ice cold, pure water is like heaven. After a few weeks or months of drinking that, you'll wonder how you could have ever drank that other crap.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (39g3+)

207 red count me in, possibly, for a SoCal AOSHQ shoot 'em up, er "meet up"

Don't you guys have some ranges in the eastern areas (Angeles, others?) that would be suitable?

I've only ever been to Rahaagues out in Corona, for the Steel Madness they used to have. Seems suitable. They've got bermed-off areas one can rent, and of course a hellacious shotgun set-up.

Anyway, gotta run - off to the range (seriously)! Indoor, just a little 9mm noise-making, heading up to central coast with friends for wine exploration manana.

Posted by: rhomboid at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (QDnY+)

208 >>>Show my a #NeverTrumper who likes Trump on a personal level, but is opposed solely on objective grounds. I don't think one exists.

not solely no but they do object on policy grounds.

They mostly object on an even more elemental plane: For the last 60 years (if not longer), the GOP has been a prosperous-middle-class-suburban party.

That cohort has always had a veto over the nominee, and always got its nominee.

This is the first time when the lower orders have united to veto the upper class' own veto power.

The American Revolution was not a true social revolution. The same people who had been in charge before the revolution were in charge after it -- America had gained independence from England, but there was not a change of the social order, which usually taken as the definition of a "revolution."

This Trump thing is an actual revolution, in the sense that people who have been OUTSIDE the decision-making centers of the party have now ousted the class which previously held that ground.

That class is upset for several reasons. 1, they don't like being pushed to the side, they don't like the diminution in status.

In fairness, no one does: That's why there's so much emotion on the pro-Trump side. They're pissed off about being shunted of to the side every election, too.

so they're attempting to tank the election in order to reclaim that power center of the party.

2, Oikophobia -- the fear of the nearby other.

The college class likes someone like Rubio without having to hear a word from him. Just by looking at him and his resume, they know ABOUT what he'd say on every issue.

People are fairly predictable from their social inputs. Marketers often say "Tell me your age, sex, and zip code, and I can tell you what party you vote for, with 90% accuracy"

that's true. People are not as complex as we like to imagine ourselves.

Someone like Rubio is reassuring to them because they kind of know all of his instincts will be very close to their own instincts. They don't have to get him to give a detailed policy platform -- they know he's going to agree with the 90% of the time, based on demographic deterministic factors.

Trump is NOT like them, so they are afraid of him. They are free to project all fears, both grounded and paranoid, on to him. He is the other.

So too are his supporters. These are people who often vote GOP but are not really connected to the GOP structure; ergo, they're Unknown. They're other.

The upper class can project all their fears of the Other on them: They're all racists. They're antisemites. They're both war-mongering maniacs AND isolationist fools.

It's very easy to demonize people YOU DON'T KNOW VERY WELL, and rather hard to demonize people you do know.

so add those together and you have a class that feels betrayed by those who dared to stop obeying their every command, and which projects paranoid derangements of a Lower Order Rife With Racism and Jew-Hatred, just as Barack Obama did in his Bitter Clingers speech.

In fact, the lower classes are much like anyone else -- just not as well-off.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (dciA+)

209 Trump on Fox talkking about the donation corruption in Washington

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (ofpt4)

210 We could just meet somewhere in Boyle Heights, that's a shooting range isn't it?

Boyle Heights used to be the ritzy section, favored by those sneaky joooos. Then the jooos all moved to the West Side and now look at it.

On the plus side EVERYWHERE in Boyle Heights accepts EBT cards.

Posted by: Cicero -- Profoundly Deplorable But Pretty Dependable at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (8ZskC)

211 Ace convinced me with his argument that at least the press and chattering classes will hold Trump accountable, because they hate Trump so much. With Hillary, we'll have ANOTHER eight years of Fast and Furious, Benghazi, VA killing patients, IRS and DOJ witchhunts, that you won't hear a single word about, not even from the internet, as the internet is about to get handed over to those stalwart defenders of free speech China and Russia and Iran. I was on the fence, I truly hate Trump and I know he's no conservative. But the media and their allies won't let him get away with any bullshit and government scandals will get air time. With Hilliary DOJ and EEOC will morph into a more poorly dressed Gestapo, and you won't know about it until the knock on the door. Voting opposite what the media wants is the way I'm going to bet this election.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (ePcUK)

212 199, I'm a grad student at Cal Lutheran. I'm currently living in Santa Paula.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (Z075/)
Hey!!! So close. I'm going to be at Cal Lutheran on 10/8 for their autism seminar. What are you studying?

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (a0IVu)

213 >>>how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?!
Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (dciA+)

ALRIGHT LADIES!!!!
GET YER CANTEENS OUT!!!
TAKE OFF THE CAP!!!
NOW DRINK!!!!
HOLD IT UPSIDE DOWN ABOVE YER HEAD WHEN DONE!!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (EWcNW)

214 If Trump fails to get someone from that list appointed, will you at least acknowledge that some NeverTrumpers were right?

Posted by: SH

As in fails to nominate, or as in Senate caves and won't consider or pass?

Posted by: Brother Cavil, convening Horde Thunderdome at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (9krrF)

215 118 You do realize those people often talk about how horrible Hillary is as a politician and individual? Ace has constructed a rather fantastical straw man he labels as #NeverTrump just so he can feel better about railing against something. The fact is, not voting for Trump doesn't equate to voting for Hillary anymore than not voting for Hillary equals voting for Trump (and to continue with that absurd logic, if I fail to vote for both does that mean I support both?).

Posted by: Sean

Yes, because one or the other will win.

Nope, Gary Johnson won't, and with a running mate like RINO Bill Weld, how principled are the Big L party again?

Rush fans, chime in here: If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.....

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (ujg0T)

216 "Hillary's Personal Enemies List
(1) Republicans
(2) Rednecks
(3) Obamas
(4) Susie Dunkwiler who got to be hall monitor in third grade! I'll pull your pig tails out I U)({GH_(PH)*GOGHJH*(UY+IMIPJ_*(U)+k "

Don't forget any Democrat who endorsed Obama over Hillary, or any other Democrat who has crossed the Clintons over the years.

Hillary has been waiting for decades to revenge herself on these people, she has an enemies list a mile long. The Republicans on the list are criminals, but the Democrats are traitors.

Posted by: Joe Stalin, Progressive at September 29, 2016 03:49 PM (Mrl1e)

217 Most fish are oviporous, which means they don't so much fuck as rub against each other and drop milt on eggs.

Only viviporous fish (sharks and rays, mostly) actually fish fuck.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 29, 2016 03:49 PM (mgbwf)

218
I thought pics weren't allowed...

Mmmm. Thought Pics.
/H.Simpson

T-Squared come for the comments, ~~stay for~~BE the entertainment
--what we all know Skip is really thinking on this

T-to-the-2, sounds like you've got the beginnings of a pretty good private army.
Congrats. The only way to go, as far as us old-timers are concerned.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 03:49 PM (H5rtT)

219 Apparently in Ace's world view, an individual can't possibly be against being a part of handing the office over to either of these two idiots; it's a binary election dontcha know!

Uh, yes. Yes it is. Dumbass.

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 29, 2016 03:49 PM (326rv)

220 >>>Because those clowns won't actually take stands, so he can't go after their arguments.

yeah, that's a big part of it. It's hard to have an argument with someone who lies about what his position actually is.

If I have to speculate about #NeverTrump's real motives and goals -- that's because they're lying about them, forcing someone to GUESS at what is motivating them.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:49 PM (dciA+)

221 I'm as close to a NeverTrumper as it gets for someone who's going to vote for him--I could still change my mind, too. Anybody who thinks asking someone to pull a lever for Trump is no different than asking someone else to pull it for Romney is delusional.

And this garbage about a visceral dislike of the guy is also letting him off too easily. Everybody in New York knows this guy. He's a loudmouth publicity whore who gets things done. Even if you don't want to hang out with him, you can still admire him. It's nothing to do with that.

Stop trying to convince yourselves he's some kind of conservative. He's no kind of conservative. Many people only vote for conservatives. You guys may be right about some of them--it's snobbery or they never were conservatives or whatever. But just stop with this, "They don't like him because he's a real conservative." It's bullshit. Stop bullshitting yourselves and the rest of us, like liberals do.

Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (mrfTe)

222 Ace---"how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?! "
-------------
I hate to tell you this, but that's about the cleanest thing fish do in water.

Posted by: Chi at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (1VvIe)

223 This post triggered me.

Posted by: TexasJew at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (rUnRu)

224 She won't have to at first -- the GOP will cave utterly to kiss the feet
of the empress for the first year or so, then start to pretend to fight to prove
they should be reelected.

FTFY

Posted by: 18-1 at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (X7E8f)

225 i'm in The Valley, like totally, fer sure!

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (aEZpQ)

226 Last President voted in with 5 employee's with criminal immunity ?

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (ofpt4)

227 Romney is in theory exactly what the NRO class claims the Republican party needs. Amusingly the left made the same argument during the primaries.

And seeing as he is a left leaning technocrat - and a damn good technocrat - seems to back that up.

However, he obviously lost the election, and the left treated him the same as Trump in the general election....
Posted by: 18-1 at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (X7E8f)

And then they tried to prop him up again next to Trump after Trump's nom.

wth?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (qCMvj)

228 >>>217 Most fish are oviporous, which means they don't so much fuck as rub against each other and drop milt on eggs.

oh why that's lovely. I love the tang of fish-milt.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (dciA+)

229 Posted by: Sean

Sean's right!

Posted by: Jim at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (zu88C)

230 I hate having Trump as our candidate.. simply hate it. I hate him too.. he's a lazy, pompous dick. But I have to vote for him. I simply have to.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
-------------

Same here. Worse, perhaps, I must stand in his defense when one of the swinish multitude of Hillary supporters shoots their vapid mouth off.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (9mTYi)

231 If the NT's throw the election, I'm disengaging permanently because there is no point. Let them try to win elections on their own.

Sigh.

That is exactly what they've been saying to themselves for months now.

All factions of the party had better figure our some way to overcome this mutual, angry fatalism or we're all fucked.

Posted by: lowtech redneck at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (egK2C)

232 posted by Jim

Jim's right!

Posted by: Mike at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (zu88C)

233 If you are so caught up in nevertrump land that you can't see what hillary could do, You may be to proud to admit your guy could not win or you agree with hillary and you may be just as wrong headed as she is. Just Sayin. I was a cruise guy but I have to accept he isn't running and couldn't win. Now im Happily a Trump Vote.

Posted by: USNtakim at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (hMqvx)

234
We could just meet somewhere in Boyle Heights, that's a shooting range isn't it?
Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (HgMAr)

There is one in Montebello

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (lKyWE)

235 I find this sort of thing going on with the GOP's very-proud-to-have-a-very-basic-college-degree class. All they want to talk about is airy abstraction like the "health of the party" and "political philosophy."

They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers.

The actual working classes of this country are being decimated partly by natural market forces (and that's fine, if regrettable) and partly by intentional government policy (and that's not so fine).

Bravo! Bravo! The WaPost "fact checker" and Maddow on MSNBC are furiously lying that GHWB signed NAFTA and not WJC. They are scared shitless by the awakening of the middle class, and trying to pin all the crap trade deals on the GOP. And the idiot Romney/NR crowd will slobber all over themselves to help.

I'm just going to dig in deeper for Trump, because he's the first guy since Perot who has used a megaphone to publicize the big lie of globalism.

Posted by: Bernette at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (ru2SK)

236
Posted by: Cave Johnson at September 29, 2016 03:47 PM (Oh6Hh)

-----------------

That's just on the domestic side.

I have a theory that she also wants to get into a hellacious foreign war because she wants to be the female FDR in all ways, down to serving 3 terms while disabled. She dreams of commanding vast armies, of making people kill other people. Think about who we'd be killing, however.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (oGNNA)

237 >>They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being
de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the
remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers.

The "working classes" are immiserating themselves by overcharging for their labor. The "low-skilled Replacement Workers" aren't being "imported;" they're coming here because they know they can get by with a Honda with no bumper and don't need the Ford XL Crew Cab and a new pair of jeans every week.

Trump's got a lot of things conceptually right, but the idea that we need to turn back the clock 60 years so that Americans can feel good about going back to building cars seems like a misplaced sense of nostalgia and a deficient understanding of economics.

Posted by: General Zod at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (Bdeb0)

238 One thing I'd like to see more of is young shooters. My kids have all taken several NRA courses and they are both a lot of fun and very important training. In fact, while I'm on the subject, thank heavens for the NRA.

Posted by: MTF at September 29, 2016 03:51 PM (/m8T6)

239 As a point to consider, Trump is almost certainly more libertarian then Bill Weld.

Of course Cruz and Rubio are most libertarian then Johnson, so I guess that isn't saying much for the LP overall.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 29, 2016 03:52 PM (X7E8f)

240 Congess is so afraid of Hillary she wouldn't get anything done without a phone and a pen, but they wouldn't impeach her either.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:52 PM (ofpt4)

241 Because those clowns won't actually take stands, so he can't go after their arguments.

yeah, that's a big part of it. It's hard to have an argument with someone who lies about what his position actually is.

If I have to speculate about #NeverTrump's real motives and goals -- that's because they're lying about them, forcing someone to GUESS at what is motivating them.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:49 PM (dciA+)

NRO did that big push against Trump.
Now they are embarrassed.
It's also their reputation at stake.
They will be laughed out of town.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 29, 2016 03:52 PM (qCMvj)

242 I love the tang of fish-milt

It's organic. All natural, organic water.
No nasty man made chemicals.

Very healthy.

Posted by: Frod Gnebbisher at September 29, 2016 03:52 PM (hG9Dn)

243 157 Sure the GOP president will give us a Souter from time to time, but you can be sure you will get four Elena Kagans from the Clitler.

4 Wise Sotomayors.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 03:41 PM (ApT0U)

Nope, latina token slot filled. Shrillary will want Leftist bulldykes.

And she and Huma will "come out" in office. I really believe that.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 03:52 PM (ujg0T)

244 217 Most fish are oviporous, which means they don't so much fuck as rub against each other and drop milt on eggs.

Posted by: Bandersnatch
------------------

There's no need to drag my good name into this cesspool...

Posted by: Mr. Berle at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (1VvIe)

245 which means they don't so much fuck as rub against each other and drop milt on eggs.

You realize, that doesn't make it better. It just means there's a haze of fish spooge in the water.

Hence: get a filter.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (39g3+)

246 My hope/guess -

If Trump wins, Breitbart goes on TV, Fox News Network suffers tremendously, and its many nevertrumpers will fade away.

Posted by: Littler me at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (NPLj5)

247 Continuing:

Hillary's Personal Enemies List
(5) Deplorables
(6) Irredeemables
(7) George Will - I hate bow ties daddy wore bow ties and he never loved me! You hear me daddy, I hate you, I haJNO{U+B ILJBUYOF*OPNB IGOYVYO*G(P){M U)(U)(UNgVUKTuk

*seizes, foams, given another electric shock*

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (hLRSq)

248 I love the tang of fish-milt

It's organic. All natural, organic water.

No nasty man made chemicals.

Very healthy.

=================

Do you EVEN KNOW what that shit costs at GNC, Bro?

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (zu88C)

249 I'm still scratching my head trying to think of where Trump is to the left of Romney, and can't come up with any.

Basically, the elites in the GOP don't like Trump because they didn't pick him. That, or they rely so much on the COC, that they prefer to crap on their base, in a long term losing proposition, electorally.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (7ZVPa)

250 Both of my Kids shoot enjoy it and have never hurt anyone or destroyed anything but a target. Take your kids shooting they will thank you later.

Posted by: USNtakim at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (hMqvx)

251 But what can be held against them is their utter parochialism and proviciniality, in which they take their own experience to be that of all other citizens and/or cynically ignore all citizens whose financial status puts them in a more precarious position than they themselves occupy.

I think it is more along the lines that they believe those other people just aren't good enough. These others are where they are because they have failed morally, ethically, and/or in intelligence.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at September 29, 2016 03:54 PM (Ee2nz)

252 Well then if I was a fish, I'd definitely want to be viviporous.

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 03:54 PM (HgMAr)

253 "Meanwhile, they're actively campaigning for more of it, to empower this regime, to encourage it, to expand it."

The realization that you've been betrayed sucks. There have been so, so many betrayals over the past years. Of course people are angry.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at September 29, 2016 03:54 PM (GzDYP)

254 She will have to take care of every person covering for her or kill or threaten them.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:54 PM (ofpt4)

255 223 This post triggered me.

Posted by: TexasJew at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (rUnRu)
=====================

Kinkster, is that you?! Damn, man, I've read your books!

Posted by: MTF at September 29, 2016 03:54 PM (/m8T6)

256 And she and Huma will "come out" in office. I really believe that.

Guarantee by end of first term. That will be her big selling point, especially as Bill will be dead by then. Assuming she survives the next 4 years. We could all be talking about President Kaine by then.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (39g3+)

257 >>>They don't like him because he's a real conservative." It's bullshit. Stop bullshitting yourselves and the rest of us, like liberals do.

just to go on the record: I never say that.

I would say however that "conservatives" define conservatism differently. For some, apparently, it's Open Borders. For others, it's Sovereignty.

One can say the people advocating Open borders are not "real conservatives" -- not that the term has any real meaning. But the fact that it has no real meaning means it's subjective by person.

To be honest, I could give a fuck about abortion, as you know.

I see now in the party that many of the people calling for border security were doing so disingenuously.

I rank that as an important goal. Others seem to think it is some Chum for the Dumb and worth some insincere election-year rhetoric, and immediate post-election abandonment and reversal.

This is why I don't give a fuck about this stupid word any longer. I don't care who's MOAR CONSERVATIVE. The word has little meaning and frankly leaves almost as bad a taste in my mouth as "liberal" used to.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (dciA+)

258 Bravo! Bravo! The WaPost "fact checker" and Maddow on MSNBC
-------------

Would this be the same Mr. Maddow that stated on the air that "There is no such thing as the preamble to the Constitution"?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (9mTYi)

259 "There isn't another undiscovered continent to escape to from this tyranny."

Well, let's not forget the lands on the other side of the Antarctic Ice Wall....

Posted by: The Flat Earth at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (jjaLl)

260 anyone up for an LA area MoMe at a shooting range?

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (aEZpQ)

Will it have a bar?
---
if we have it at Oak Tree Gun Club, we can have beer at the cafe *after* we shoot...

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (aEZpQ)

261 Stop trying to convince yourselves he's some
kind of conservative.
Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (mrfTe)
Trump is, at a minimum, less unconservative than Romney, McCain, W Bush, and HW Bush. He's shown himself to be independent of both the inner party and the show opposition.

Posted by: My Ridiculously Circuitous Plan at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (EIB5Y)

262 Trump's got a lot of things conceptually right, but the idea that we
need to turn back the clock 60 years so that Americans can feel good
about going back to building cars seems like a misplaced sense of
nostalgia and a deficient understanding of economics.
***
I'd rather a model where we pay American salaries to Americans in the working class and pay a little more for products, then one where the work is done by illegals or overseas and those same Americans are given the scraps of welfare by the government.

The working class is here, either they get paid to do real work, or they get paid to not do work...by the taxpayers.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (X7E8f)

263 I hate everything.

Posted by: the deplorable chiefjaybob, who hates everyone at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (IVNPU)

264
I must stand in his defense when one of the swinish multitude of Hillary supporters shoots their vapid mouth off.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (9mTYi)
----------------

As I understand it, in this election you don't need to defend the person you'll be voting for. It's an anti-Other Guy vote for many on both sides.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at September 29, 2016 03:56 PM (oGNNA)

265 Same here. Worse, perhaps, I must stand in his defense when one of the swinish multitude of Hillary supporters shoots their vapid mouth off.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (9mTYi)

I feel no obligation to stand in his defense.....I just emphasize to those on the fence that Hillary sucks more. Its difficult with LIV independents, they don't generally understand or care about the issues (i.e. Constitutional conservatism) that motivate me. Its generally best to just emphasize that she's a crook and effective national traitor who should be in jail.

Posted by: lowtech redneck at September 29, 2016 03:56 PM (egK2C)

266 #4 It is an absolute rock solid certainty that Hillary will sell out our foreign policy to the highest bidder.

Posted by: Make America Great Again at September 29, 2016 03:56 PM (gwwEL)

267 She will have to take care of every person covering for her or kill or threaten them.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 03:54 PM (ofpt4)

Comey: After the election, I'm supposed to meet her in Fort Marcy Park to get my reward for being a good flunky.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 29, 2016 03:57 PM (493sH)

268 "If Trump fails to get someone from that list appointed, will you at least acknowledge that some NeverTrumpers were right?"

You mean if a Republican-controlled Senate fails to confirm Federalist Society-approved justices it would prove Hillary was a better choice?

WTF?

Posted by: Rob Crawford at September 29, 2016 03:57 PM (fVubI)

269 I'll say this for you all - you have been entertaining me since I started following this blog in 2012 - the Annus Horribilis and every horrible day ever since.

Posted by: T-Squared at September 29, 2016 03:57 PM (VkAIj)

270 Basically, the elites in the GOP don't like Trump because they didn't pick him.
***
He isn't beholden to them, so he isn't going to pay off their clients if he wins - like Bush or Rubio would have.

Trump may find himself clients, or not - but they are unlikely to be the ones financing the GOPe right now.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 29, 2016 03:57 PM (X7E8f)

271 One thing I'm curious about-

I think Trump has badly misplayed his confrontations with all 3 of the "of color" people he's had dust-ups with- the Judge, the Khans, the beauty queen. I know most here disagree, but that's not my point.

These were all very obvious ways to set a narrative the Dems chose- get them out there, get the press talking about them, then see what hay can be made from Trump fighting with them.

Where are these surrogate spokesmen for Trump? Why isn't the family of the person killed by the sanctuary city illegal speaking out? There have to be others- veterans of Iraq, former security employees who lost their jobs or were prosecuted over IT security employees much worse than Herselfs? Or have they been out there and I missed it?

Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at September 29, 2016 03:58 PM (kZVsz)

272 "Can you go through where Trump is unappealing on a majority of your positions as a conservative?

I mean, deep down, I knew Romney wanted Universal health Care or his own version of ObamaCare, but I still found him to easily be a better choice than Obama. "

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 03:43 PM (onbPc)

---

Yes, I'll start with the three I mentioned earlier...

1. His past comments regarding the 2A seemed to be in the past until the debate when he agreed with Hillary that the government should take away your right if they place you on a list. As a NRA member this is a huge problem, and one many will overlook because Trump said he wants to make it easier to get off the list (what ever that means). And if Trump is okay with the any plan to violate our 2A right how can we be sure he won't agree to other "well-meaning" plans Democrats cook up?

2. Healthcare. Again, in the past Trump has been okay with Obamacare-like plans, but during the primaries it seemed he transformed on the position. However we now have him saying he wants to extend Medicare, one of the worst parts of Obamacare. If he's okay with part of it how will he ever support repeal? Answer, he won't. More backbreaking healthcare costs for us small businesses.

3. And speaking of burdens on small businesses he agrees that we should all be forced to pay for maternity leave. Great. I'm sure a Billionaire has no problem coming up with the resources to pay two people to do the same job because one of them isn't working, but most of us don't. Again, if he supports this what else will he mandate for the greater good? Higher minimum wage? Expanded unemployment?

4. Stop and frisk. Sounds like a great idea, like all liberal policies, until unintended consequences get in the way. Look, if you have a need to stop someone under the current Terry standard, fine, but we elect Presidents, not Kings that can dictate to cities which policies their police force will follow. If Trump thinks he can simply tell Chicago what's best for them that speaks to a temperament issue, not just the overall Liberty issue.

5. Using Government force to blackmail businesses that are trying to retreat from oppressive government regulations (and/or unions) by slapping tariffs and additional taxes. Look, if Ford wants to go to Mexico, that's their business and their decision, and instead of saying, "that's a nice company you got there, it'd be a shame if something happened to it." How about a plan to lift oppressive tax policies and regulations that create the toxic environment in the first place? Why are we blaming the company and not the government intervention?

.. I've got a class to get to, I'll post more shortly.

Posted by: Sean at September 29, 2016 03:58 PM (JWRY9)

273 Conservative editorial boards lining up behind Hillary. But don't tell me NeverTrump is pro Hillary!

Link is Huffpo. Visit at your own peril.

http://tinyurl.com/jhmpjbq

Posted by: Texas Zombie at September 29, 2016 03:58 PM (SUtNI)

274
if we have it at Oak Tree Gun Club, we can have beer at the cafe *after* we shoot...
Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 03:55 PM (aEZpQ)

Newhall?

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 03:58 PM (lKyWE)

275 Jumping ahead..

My hope is that with a Trump win, the democrats will react by finding their own populist, non-politician to challenge in 2020. Marc Cuban, for example. Or maybe, Howard Schultz. I'm less worried about how conservative or not the Republican party is than just how bat-shit leftist the Democrats have become. With the full backing of pop-culture behind them, their going to continue to foist a lot of extreme leftism on the country. I'm hoping the next two election cycles ends up with a reset of both parties more towards the middle. (Probably wishful thinking.)

I'd actually consider voting to the Democrat if I believed them leading that party would drag them back to the middle.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 29, 2016 03:58 PM (Uy6ri)

276 Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at September 29, 2016 03:58 PM (kZVsz)

Because no one in the MSM would EVER cover such a thing!

Posted by: The Flat Earth at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (jjaLl)

277 Hey!!! So close. I'm going to be at Cal Lutheran on 10/8 for their autism seminar. What are you studying?

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 03:48 PM (a0IVu)

Master of Science in Quantitative Economics.
I'm probably going to be out of town on 10/8, unfortunately.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (Z075/)

278 Guarantee by end of first term. That will be her big selling point, especially as Bill will be dead by then. Assuming she survives the next 4 years. We could all be talking about President Kaine by then.

500 quatloos on her not making it past the first year.
She'll stroke, and someone will be just a hair too slow with that epipen.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (ApT0U)

279 #4 It is an absolute rock solid certainty that Hillary will sell out our foreign policy to the highest bidder.

In fairness, I think Trump would be just as much a greedy opportunist in office, helping himself and business cronies to the trough with both hands. He's just much less likely to sell his own nation down the river to a foreign government to do so than Hillary.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (39g3+)

280 "Elites, by and large, do better when it is a Government of Men, not a Government of Laws.

Why? THEY are the Men... they are the ones who decide who gets the benefit of government protection, and Largesse.

The Rule of law is there for the little people. Its there to be used AGAINST the elites.

Many of the MSM NeverTrumpers, are part of the elite. Thus it is not important to them if by electing Hillary, we destroy any confidence in the rule of law in this country."

This, a million times.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (fVubI)

281 244 217 Most fish are oviporous, which means they don't so much fuck as rub against each other and drop milt on eggs.

Posted by: Bandersnatch
------------------

There's no need to drag my good name into this cesspool...
Posted by: Mr. Berle at September 29, 2016 03:53 PM (1VvIe)

Legend has it he had one hell of a gonopodium.

Posted by: josephistan at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (7HtZB)

282 BRAVO!

Posted by: starboardhelm at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (hOtJL)

283 Ace is on fire and he's right. Put aside for the moment which idiot you think is worse as president, think about all of the other idiots that the idiot will surround him/herself with. There is just no question which is preferable. Given that, I can only assume that, as Ace has said, there are ulterior motives for opposing Trump - namely, that he will disrupt the status quo and suddenly a bunch of moneyed special interests will lose some power.

Posted by: Cygnus at September 29, 2016 04:00 PM (fdavN)

284 Ok Screw conservative as a term, I'll take veteran, father, husband, Catholic (more traditional not liberal) fiscal realist, anti leftest. American first kinda guy. oh and very lightly educated (enough to get a trade, never at a traditional four year School).

Posted by: USNtakim at September 29, 2016 04:00 PM (hMqvx)

285 Comey: After the election, I'm supposed to meet her in Fort Marcy Park to get my reward for being a good flunky.
Posted by: TheQuietMan
--------------

Look, Jim, just play along quietly. Go along to get along. Heck, I got this cozy dacha in Vermont just for shutting up.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 04:00 PM (9mTYi)

286 124 If Trump fails to get someone from that list appointed, will you at least acknowledge that some NeverTrumpers were right?
---
Agree with Maritime on this. We've been horribly betrayed by GOP SCOTUS appointments since Nixon. If Trump gives us another Lefty idiot who camouflages himself till the appointment, he's no different then any other GOP president. But he guaranteed a Federalist Society approved judge, and said Mitch could block the appointment if he didn't.

But he may be lying!

What am I supposed to do? Hillary is 100% guaranteed to give us another "Whatever the Left wants is constitutional!" in the mold of Kagan and Sotomayer.

Posted by: T-Lo at September 29, 2016 04:00 PM (zrU0r)

287 >>>>>Question for the NeverTrumpers assuming that their chosen candidate will sweep to victory in 2020.

What's
to stop Hillary and the weaponized federal bureaucracy from seizing her
opponent's campaign coffers in late September? From announcing FBI
investigations or Justice Department indictments of key campaign staff,
or even the candidate himself, on "corruption" charges?
.
.
.
.I haven't heard one single #neverTrumper articulate who this mysterious candidate will be that will sweep the Nation and throw hillary outo of office in 2020. Not a peep.

At first I assumed it was going to be Cruz but that can't happen now.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at September 29, 2016 04:01 PM (iONHu)

288 >>>Stop trying to convince yourselves he's some kind of conservative. He's no kind of conservative.

Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (mrfTe)

How conservative is it to allow your country to get flooded by third worlders?

Immigration is THE issue. You can have arguments over how much of the size and scope of social safety nets, but if half your population are new destitute, naturalized Latin Americans, the argument is over. First stop Brazil. Next stop Venezuela, with a smattering of Anbar Province.

Posted by: crrr6 (hotair refugee) at September 29, 2016 04:01 PM (t+REr)

289 Newhall?

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 03:58 PM (lKyWE)
---
yup

http://www.oaktreegunclub.com/

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 04:01 PM (aEZpQ)

290 I am a 3 issues voter this round.
1. Courts
2. Immigration
3. American Economy

That's it for this cycle.

Do the rest of you have a simple, non- murky list?

Or is it just a nuance cloud?

( Sorry about the combative tone, or maybe not, but I'm low on muddied water tolerance ).

Posted by: tubal at September 29, 2016 04:01 PM (d6TTt)

291 This isn't even half of it, just the most egregious usurpations of liberty and constitutional obfuscation.

Think about how the administrative state has been weaponized and used against us. Whether the EPA, IRS or FBI. They've rewrote and interpreted it in the case of the DOJ outright ignored the law.

Most people would call that anarchy or at least oligarchy.

The chattering Republican class somehow calls this opportunity.

Really? How could you honestly vote any other way, much less make dishonest maladroit, intellectually dishonest statements when everything you purported to support and love is at stake?

Simple you never genuinely meant it in the first place.

The only thing I find more loathsome then Democrats are dishonest quislings who are trying to dupe me into believing they are something they are clearly not- virtuous.

Nothing pisses me off more than being insulted by people whose wives are probably being serviced by some 21 year old stud because they are simply to self absorbed to observe that anybody matters more than their precious rantings.

Posted by: Marcus T at September 29, 2016 04:01 PM (jYV/+)

292 Look, Jim, just play along quietly. Go along to get along. Heck, I got this cozy dacha in Vermont just for shutting up.
Posted by: Mike Hammer
----------

Meh. Forgot the Bernie sock.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 04:01 PM (9mTYi)

293 Getting off the gold standard and going full Fiat money was a death nail to any free market system.

The very definition of fiat money and the shit the Fed pulls munipulates the system from the top down.

It will all come crashing down. It always does.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at September 29, 2016 04:02 PM (pcbAL)

294 "If Trump fails to get someone from that list appointed, will you at least acknowledge that some NeverTrumpers were right?"

---------

*reposted for awesome*

rexbatt, it is ignorant voters like you that have created the situation we have in the country.

You "hate" and "love" candidates, but have a 9-yr old's understanding of, you know, actual policy, the whole point of elections.

Mass
lawlessness and racist social engineering in immigration, insanely
dangerous foreign policy, and suicidally stupid and impoverishing energy
policy - alone - are reason enough to get over your ignorant, emotional
reaction to Trump.

There is substantial reason to think that if
Trump wins these three areas at a minimum will see massive improvement
(things largely under executive control and not requiring any heroics
from the likes of Ryan or McConnell).

Ignoring that, or not understanding it, renders you a silly and destructive voter, at best.

But cling to stupid labels like "conservative", and your NYT-level understanding of the state of the world.

posted by rhomboid

Posted by: Mortimer, deplorable at September 29, 2016 04:02 PM (zu88C)

295 I think Trump has badly misplayed his confrontations with all 3 of the "of color" people he's had dust-ups with- the Judge, the Khans, the beauty queen. I know most here disagree, but that's not my point.

You're reading it poorly but even if you're correct there's a missing component here.

Nothing he says or does will be the "right" way to handle it. Because every single thing he does or says is racist and evil and he's a klansman church burning lyncher McHitler to the press and the Democrats -- at least, that's the narrative right now -- so what he actually does, doesn't mean a damn thing.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:02 PM (39g3+)

296 "Milt" Berle, LMAO. Now there was a fish-egg crusher for yaz.

Yeah if you're in an actual craft union and go for the Dem's Big Vision BIRM, you're voting for endless Trade Re-Adjustment handouts, not the continuation of your industry and craft. Dems may close your coal mining company after 4,5 generations of union pressure and market forces finally made a miner Somebody, but hey, they'll train you for a cubicle job that's worth at least half as much. And will they take credit, and all your dues, for that? Why yes they will!

Never crosses their minds that some people are machinists, or miners, widgeteers or what have you, because that's what they wanted to do, and what they want from their politician is to stop choking them to death.

Once had a talk with a guy who'd been Prez, or Vice-Prez ("reCAWDin' Secretary!") of the UAW local...at Studebaker. Din't work out too bad for me, he sez. I ended up an administrator for the War on Poverty!

Hell of an endorsement, there, skippy.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 04:03 PM (H5rtT)

297 Loretta Lynch'em is going to be owed most of all.

Posted by: Skip at September 29, 2016 04:03 PM (ofpt4)

298
Where are these surrogate spokesmen for Trump? Why isn't the family of the person killed by the sanctuary city illegal speaking out? There have to be others- veterans of Iraq, former security employees who lost their jobs or were prosecuted over IT security employees much worse than Herselfs? Or have they been out there and I missed it?

---------------------

They appear at many of his rallies. The MSM always somehow misses that part.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at September 29, 2016 04:04 PM (oGNNA)

299 Many of the NeverTrumpers jumped on the bandwagon in the belief that Trump would lose in a landslide, and they will be able to say "I told you so".

They should carefully consider what happens if Trump loses by a percentage point or two. If that happens the NeverTrumpers will own everything Hillary does.

All of it.

Posted by: Joe Stalin, Progressive at September 29, 2016 04:04 PM (Mrl1e)

300 Trump is terrible.
He's a reality show blowhard 12year old.
I can't stand him. No one will convince me he will be a wonderful president.

But, hillary is a wretched piece of dysfunctional psychopathy who belongs in prison, preferably medicated into semi consciousness.
No one will convince me she wouldn't finish the job obambla started in destroying this country forever.

Gee......I can't decide what to do.

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at September 29, 2016 04:04 PM (QM5S2)

301 Do the rest of you have a simple, non- murky list?

Three S's:

Sovereignty, Sanity, Solvency.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, convening Horde Thunderdome at September 29, 2016 04:04 PM (9krrF)

302 Getting off the gold standard and going full Fiat money was a death nail to any free market system.

All the gold system did is put a face on the fiat. Gold is only worth what people say it is; IT is a fiat currency you're using as a standard for your currency.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (39g3+)

303 Stop trying to convince yourselves he's some kind of conservative. He's no kind of conservative. Many people only vote for conservatives. You guys may be right about some of them--it's snobbery or they never were conservatives or whatever. But just stop with this, "They don't like him because he's a real conservative." It's bullshit. Stop bullshitting yourselves and the rest of us, like liberals do.
Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 03:50 PM (mrfTe)

That's not my argument and never was. My argument is that it is either Trump, or Clinton. Simple as that.

Moreover, with the immigration issue *alone*, Trump is already further Right than McCain.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (ujg0T)

304 In some ways, National Review is getting what's coming to them.

If you look at the Alexa web site rankings, their ranking has been in free fall since April, and when you consider that this is a presidential election year when more people are focused on politics and policy, that is even worse than it seems. No doubt their subscriptions are following a similar trajectory.

It's a healthy development in a way. As National Review becomes more reliant on their donors, more people are recognizing that they are primarily an advocacy organ of their donors and not some sort of quasi-academic group of objective analysts measuring policies and politicians against the American national interest.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (fgOnp)

305 Who was the last President to nominate 4 justices?

I'd say it is rather unlikely.
Posted by: SH

is this really what you want to hang your hat on with why you can be okay with Hillary winning?

If she gets only 1-2 justices, we're probably boned until I'm in a nursing home.

We don't always get a nice exit plan for conservative justices, see Scalia for an example

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (onbPc)

306 The "working classes" are immiserating themselves by overcharging for their labor. The "low-skilled Replacement Workers" aren't being "imported;" they're coming here because they know they can get by with a Honda with no bumper and don't need the Ford XL Crew Cab and a new pair of jeans every week.

--
1. They are indeed being imported, we've been documenting this almost daily here.

2. I'm willing to pay a few percent more for goods, and have fellow Americans produce them, than pay less for goods, and make it up in paying for welfare payments that lead to long term societal problems like we are seeing now.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (7ZVPa)

307 In fairness, I think Trump would be just as much a greedy opportunist in office, helping himself and business cronies to the trough with both hands.

And you honestly think the gope and dems and the media will let him get away with it vs clinton?

Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (ApT0U)

308
Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 04:01 PM (aEZpQ)

Thanks I thought the place was long gone.Haven't been out that way for awhile

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (lKyWE)

309 In fairness, I think Trump would be just as much a greedy opportunist in
office, helping himself and business cronies to the trough with both
hands.
---
as if the MFM won't be all over everything President Trump does like a cheap suit...

hell, he won't be able to fart in his own home without it being a national crisis.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (aEZpQ)

310 I am a 3 issues voter this round.
1. Courts
2. Immigration
3. American Economy
............

Concise. I'll add:
4. National debt

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (HgMAr)

311 Do the rest of you have a simple, non- murky list?

There's only one bullet point on my list:

Hillary must lose.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (39g3+)

312 Who was the last President to nominate 4 justices?

I'd say it is rather unlikely.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (gmeXX)

---
so we should take a chance on that happening with Hillary in office?

---------

Just don't tell me something is likely to happen when it isn't.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (gmeXX)

313 191 how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?!

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 03:39 PM (dciA+)

You want your urine to be very light yellow, like a straw color.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 03:45 PM (hLRSq)

Since he's a New Yorker I question if ace has ever seen straw.

Posted by: Buzzion at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (u9mG3)

314 he's a klansman church burning lyncher McHitler to the press and the Democrats -- at least, that's the narrative right now -- so what he actually does, doesn't mean a damn thing.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor
-------------

Well, yesterday and the day before it was 'misogynist. Not sure what the coordinated narrative du jour is.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (9mTYi)

315 In fairness, I think Trump would be just as much a greedy opportunist in office, helping himself and business cronies to the trough with both hands.

And you honestly think the gope and dems and the media will let him get away with it vs clinton?
Posted by: rickb223 at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (ApT0U)

sigh, on one hand you have someone who has demonstrated they are corrupt and dishonest in government, on the other you have someone who might be.

Posted by: yankeefifth at September 29, 2016 04:07 PM (cPsPa)

316 4 It is an absolute rock solid certainty that Hillary will sell out our foreign policy to the highest bidder.

In fairness, I think Trump would be just as much a greedy opportunist in office, helping himself and business cronies to the trough with both hands. He's just much less likely to sell his own nation down the river to a foreign government to do so than Hillary.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

We already know that the republicans in power have happily sold us out, repeatedly.

We know that Hillary has sold us out repeatedly.

The worst that trump could do would be........just like them.

This is why the establishment hated him. He can't do worse. There's some chance that he might do better.

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 29, 2016 04:07 PM (326rv)

317 >>>They should carefully consider what happens if Trump loses by a percentage point or two. If that happens the NeverTrumpers will own everything Hillary does.

All of it.

...

indeed. It's going to be a hoot watch them criticized the president they actively (though dishonestly) campaigned for.

What, they can't do that for Trump? That is, agitate for him (as the best of a bad decision) and then criticize him when he does something they don't like?

Nope! because they have a party to wrest back from the dirty, calloused hands of the despised lower orders.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:07 PM (dciA+)

318 is this really what you want to hang your hat on with why you can be okay with Hillary winning?

If she gets only 1-2 justices, we're probably boned until I'm in a nursing home.

We don't always get a nice exit plan for conservative justices, see Scalia for an example

--------------

Just say that the next President will likely get to nominate 2-3 justices and who knows maybe even 4.

Not the next President will likely nominate 4 justices.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 04:07 PM (gmeXX)

319 "Trump's got a lot of things conceptually right, but the idea that we need to turn back the clock 60 years so that Americans can feel good about going back to building cars seems like a misplaced sense of nostalgia and a deficient understanding of economics."

Where has he said that?

Posted by: Rob Crawford at September 29, 2016 04:07 PM (fVubI)

320 National Review is pandering to their top hat and monocle readership. Their patrons will always have money and enjoy participating in the time-honored conservative tradition of idle bitching about liberals.

So, screw the country. They have magazines to sell, and electing that boor Donald Trump isn't going to move them off the shelves. They figure that if they can't divest or invert their way out of our new socialist dictatorship, they'll be eaten last.

Posted by: crrr6 (hotair refugee) at September 29, 2016 04:07 PM (t+REr)

321 #NeverTrump as a tactic during the primary made a certain amount of sense. If they could convince the rest of the primary voters that going Trump would cause a schism in the party that would inevitably lead to doom in the general, then the #NeverTrumpers could get their way.

But, it didn't work. That's the problem with a bluff: sometimes you get called. Now they are faced with the trap of their own words. If they retreat, then they get treated like Cruz did in many quarters: #NeverTrumpers saying he has no character after all, since he has endorsed the Great Satan. But, refusing to back down mean, effectively, helping Hillary. It's not easy to stay on that road while at the same time claiming that they are the ones with principles.

In the end, it is foolish pride. They can't face the prospect of eating their own words, so they instead come up with convoluted reasoning to explain their de facto support of a person who is determined to undermine our republic, either through her toxic (progressive) view of what our society should look like, or merely out of a desire to further her criminal enterprise.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 29, 2016 04:08 PM (R+30W)

322 Continues:

Hillary's Personal Enemies List Vol. CCXXIV
(57

Vlad Putin - laugh at my outfit, will he?
(579) Chuck Schumer - smarmy jackass cut me out of the spotlight in the senate
(580) Tony Prokowicz - that lousy sandwich I got in New York from him made me all gassy last 9/11
(581) Mr. O'Spades - that alkie teddy bear has drunk all the cheap vodka! I'll have him for a merkin for that!

*pen runs out of ink*

"Huma! Order another gross of pens!"

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 04:08 PM (hLRSq)

323 Here you go Ace. Democrats are stacking the entire financial system to get money flowing to their favorite classes and making everyone else pay for it.

Through regulatory management the FEd, SEC and the alphabet agencies in financial services they have been twisting the rules to ensure credit flows into certain areas.

This from the government who still hasn't taken responsibility for the last financial crisis which was the result of similar measures.

People who have money will eventually have less of it.

Posted by: Marcus T at September 29, 2016 04:08 PM (jYV/+)

324 If the assertions in this article are true, I find it inevitable that we are headed down a path to violence.

Posted by: Dave at September 29, 2016 04:08 PM (2Kysq)

325 Fantastic article, Ace.

The implications of a far-left Supreme Court is what got me on the Trump Train. That one issue. I keep preaching to all my friends who have doubts about Trump (I have doubts about Trump) that the damage done with a far-left Supreme Court for a generation would be the end of this country. It's terrifying.

Posted by: Biergood at September 29, 2016 04:08 PM (v8Lx/)

326 En Fuego!

Posted by: That Guy Who Shouts "En Fuego!" at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (014lE)

327 277, Master of Science in Quantitative Economics.
I'm probably going to be out of town on 10/8, unfortunately.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 03:59 PM (Z075/)
Well, if you interested to meet up for coffee or lunch, let me know (irracore72 at gmail dot com).

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (a0IVu)

328 Stop trying to convince yourselves he's some kind of conservative. He's no kind of conservative.

___________

Not everyone here agrees with that.

basically the argument the NeverTrumpers come up with is "he's lying about everything!" in which case, you could say that about every politician. So why even vote?

Who knows Hillary may be a closet right-winger? Right?

Even if a really respectable Democrat that had none of the baggage Hillary does, I would still say Trump represents the better, conservative alternative.

This is not personality based for me. I mostly loathe Trump

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (onbPc)

329 I thought unions were very proactive about detecting and rooting out "scabs", ie. non union workers. How is it that employers are able to get away with using illegals without unions detecting it and raising a big stink about it? Wasn't there a story a few years ago about a woman who was harassed by union goons for hiring (as a private individual) a non-union worker to fix her cable? Unless they are afraid of being branded racist.

Posted by: Yuimetal at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (iFgwk)

330 If Hillary wins, stating that there are only two genders, and that gender is not socially determined, will be prosecuted as a hate crime.

The couple in Oregon who were fined $135,000 for failing to bake a gay wedding cake is only the beginning of what is going to happen under Hillary.

Posted by: Joe Stalin, Progressive at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (Mrl1e)

331 say there Ace, quick question. Why do you keep referring to the politicians as "leaders"? while they may fancy themselves as leaders they are "representatives".

Posted by: yankeefifth at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (cPsPa)

332 full Fiat money

Shut the hell up. We feel bad enough already.
---500,000 Jeep owners

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (H5rtT)

333 Just don't tell me something is likely to happen when it isn't.

I think 4 is a bit high, but given the ages of the court, hardly implausible. At least 2 are on death's door right now anyway.

This is why the establishment hated him. He can't do worse. There's some chance that he might do better.

Yeah as much as I don't like Trump, you can at least say this about him: he may not be as bad as I fear, and his bad is better than Hillary's best.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:10 PM (39g3+)

334 You nailed it as far as NeverTrumper types (the "true conservatives" moreso than the moderates) treating conservatism as some kind of philosophy seminar. Not anything to do with the guy, but it's lame.

Posted by: Talk at September 29, 2016 04:10 PM (DbD6M)

335 312 Who was the last President to nominate 4 justices?

I'd say it is rather unlikely.

Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:38 PM (gmeXX)

---
so we should take a chance on that happening with Hillary in office?

---------

Just don't tell me something is likely to happen when it isn't.
Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (gmeXX)

Obama is trying to pick his third one. And I can still see the senate caving and letting him. Based on the ages of the Supreme Court justices yes there is a likelihood of there being 4 seats to be picked. If the senate holds firm and doesn't let Obama replace Scalia it's even more likely.

Posted by: Buzzion at September 29, 2016 04:10 PM (z/Ubi)

336 Donald Trump is a classic loudmouth New York bullshit artist. But even with his failures and bankruptcies he's made more money for more people than Hillary has stolen from entire nations, whereas the last eight years have been a nearly unbroken stream of Democrat and GOP failures.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at September 29, 2016 04:10 PM (9S+EN)

337 Trump is a pro U.S. anti-globalist.

I don't care if he's a fucking liberal, we are WAY past caring about that.

Posted by: Max Power at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (q177U)

338 >>In the end, it is foolish pride. They can't face the prospect of eating their own words, so they instead come up with convoluted reasoning to explain their de facto support of a person who is determined to undermine our republic, either through her toxic (progressive) view of what our society should look like, or merely out of a desire to further her criminal enterprise.

exactly. One of the most absurd arguments they offer -- if you want to deem it an "argument" -- is "Well I said I was NeverTrump during the heat of the primary and so I must remain! After all, I have #Principle!"

Wait -- you're QUOTING YOURSELF as an authority and basically making the argument that reconsideration of a position in light of changed circumstances constitutes "principle"?

I'm, that's the "principle" of a blowhard, ill-educated, egotistical jackass who thinks his own words are like Jesus' and should be in red-line text.

I take reconsideration and rethinking based on changed circumstances to be a rather more important principle than "I said this once on Twitter so now it's my life's Mantra."

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (dciA+)

339 You know what would solve our CA MoMe problem?
High Speed Rail!

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (HgMAr)

340 Just say that the next President will likely get to nominate 2-3 justices and who knows maybe even 4.

Not the next President will likely nominate 4 justices.
Posted by: SH

Does that really make you feel better?

It still makes me sick at my stomach.

If Hillary does get 2-3 justices, you're talking 30 years to get past that.

Remember, it's only conservative judges that "grow" as judges, liberals never have a turncoat.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (onbPc)

341 I find it inevitable that we are headed down a path to violence.

I see this ending in no other way, save God's grace. He may yet have mercy on us, but we deserve justice.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (39g3+)

342 " For some, apparently, it's Open Borders. For others, it's Sovereignty."

And some are so simple-minded that a guy nods to one and that automatically makes him a conservative. At one time, there was kind of a uniting theme to being a conservative, and just tagging one of the bases and stopping at the others only long enough to piss on them didn't get you there.

The crap in this thread, the stuff we're telling ourselves to feel better about buying into this garbage candidate, that's the same crap that got us the garbage candidate. We're not some noble uprising--we're a bunch of rubes who got played and now we have to make the best of it.

Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (mrfTe)

343 Thanks I thought the place was long gone.Haven't been out that way for awhile

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 04:06 PM (lKyWE)

---
they've done a lot of upgrades to the place the last few years, and it really shows.

Moore and Moore Sporting Clays has too (they're up next to Angeles Ranges, which is just the same ol same ol..)

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 04:12 PM (aEZpQ)

344 339
You know what would solve our CA MoMe problem?

High Speed Rail!

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (HgMAr)
Haha..yes. anything to avoid the hell that is the 101 and 405.

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 04:12 PM (a0IVu)

345 I bet y'all thought Scalia would still be alive well into the next President's term?

If Hillary is President I think the right leaning SCOTUS justices would do well to sleep without pillows.

Posted by: votermom the deplorable @vm at September 29, 2016 04:12 PM (Om16U)

346 299 Many of the NeverTrumpers jumped on the bandwagon in the belief that Trump would lose in a landslide, and they will be able to say "I told you so".

They should carefully consider what happens if Trump loses by a percentage point or two. If that happens the NeverTrumpers will own everything Hillary does.

All of it.

Posted by: Joe Stalin, Progressive at September 29, 2016 04:04 PM (Mrl1e)

As best as I can figure, one percentage point this go round will equal between 1.3 to 1.4 million people. Do you really think #NeverTrump is that big? If there's that many Republicans that can't vote for Trump because they want to control the lower class, this party is really in deep doo-doo.

Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (kZVsz)

347 I respect those who have great misgivings about Trump but who are going to vote for him, however, I'm at the other end of the spectrum...

Trump, in my opinion, is probably as close to what the perfect individual needs to be to lead this country at this particular time. Just as history seems to provide the right person at the right time for the job, Trump is what the United States needs today.

This country has slid so far down a slope of apathy and incompetence that seemingly incomprehensible waste and abuse is normal. Our political class has come to accept the status quo and believes that tiny alterations around the margins are world-changing improvements.

Only someone from the outside, someone who can't be mislead by the "glamour" of media and cocktail parties, can bring the quantum change needed.

Change that shocks. Change that awes.

This type of leadership requires an ego as big as all outdoors. There needs to be a sense that what is to be accomplished is as natural as gravity.

No doubt. No hesitation.

Trump is the man who can do that.

Perhaps 8 years from now we'll need a Ted Cruz or even a Marco Rubio. But these two don't possess the qualities we need now.

Posted by: jwest at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (Zs4uk)

348 The goal of Americans should be to drive the "better-then-thou's" out of the Republican Party into the identity politics of the democong where they will be chewed up and spit out before they can say "cocktail party". The democong dont need them and are already overstocked with pompous white dingleberries that never shut up about things they dont understand.

I think that between the lower middle class that has suffered the most, and those educated upplerclass that actually have some intelligence, Trump is going to get elected.

After he gets elected? Pray he sticks to his campaign planks

Posted by: Grad School Fool at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (swEzU)

349 Well, if you interested to meet up for coffee or lunch, let me know (irracore72 at gmail dot com).

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (a0IVu)
Thanks!
This week probably won't work, since I'm busy studying for finals, but next week might be doable.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (Z075/)

350 >>> say there Ace, quick question. Why do you keep referring to the politicians as "leaders"? while they may fancy themselves as leaders they are "representatives".

decent point, casualness of expression.

but they're not really "representatives" either are they?

Unless they're all the Member of Congress representing the Chamber of Congress and Montsato.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (dciA+)

351 >>>who thinks his own words are like Jesus' and should be in red-line text.

That there's some good knowledges for a secular Ewok.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (EWcNW)

352 Just for the record, there is no statutory number for the supreme court. Nine members is just a tradition.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (7ZVPa)

353 A simple choice election, could not be easier, if the future of the country is the focus.

Posted by: tubal at September 29, 2016 04:14 PM (d6TTt)

354 I am a proud #NeverTrump Republican for Hillary. Trump has hijacked my party and made it a white nationalist/populist party. I want Hillary to win so the white nationalist/populists are crushed. If the Left gets the court so be it. I view them as lesser of evils.

Posted by: #NeverTrump Republican at September 29, 2016 04:14 PM (VhPjL)

355 191 how much of this nasty water (fish fuck in it!) does a guy have to drink?!
..............

Depends. Are you on Naked and Afraid or Dual Survival?

Posted by: wth at September 29, 2016 04:14 PM (HgMAr)

356 Trump Advice Network:

You wanna talk about Venezuela, let's talk about Venezuela. How they doin' down there after they adopted all of your economic policies. No toilet paper. Eatin' zoo animals. Sad. But Chavez' daughter a gazillionaire. And that's what you want for the American people.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at September 29, 2016 04:15 PM (hKi6n)

357 I take reconsideration and rethinking based on changed circumstances to be a rather more important principle than "I said this once on Twitter so now it's my life's Mantra."

Posted by: ace

I honestly think this sentiment is very widespread.

Because in the heat of battle, someone says something stupid, they have to abide by it forever?

Hell, the word "divorce" has come up in a few heated spousal battles over my life, good thing I didn't go through with it to protect my "integrity"

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 04:15 PM (onbPc)

358 >>>>If Trump fails to get someone from that list appointed, will you at least acknowledge that some NeverTrumpers were right?
Posted by: SH at September 29, 2016 03:35 PM (gmeXX)

So Bush 41 and Reagan get passes for Souter and Kennedy, but if Trump doesn't deliver, you told us so. This "escaping, possibly with severe injuries" being the enemy of "certain death" fallacy sure is interesting.

How many people on Trump's list do you think are on Hillary's?

Posted by: crrr6 (hotair refugee) at September 29, 2016 04:15 PM (t+REr)

359 I have been adamant about not voting for either candidate. Just writing by someone in. Until today. After reading both your posts, I realize I must vote for Trump. As much as I dislike the man personally, there is at least a chance for the country if he is elected. Which does not exist at all with Hillary.

I have to accept these are the two choices. One of them will be president. And I am cutting off my nose to spite my face by declining to vote for either narcissistic sociopath.

So you have converted this #NeverTrumper. I will cease to heckle him on Social media and in public. Give me another few days to work up to saying I'm voting for him publicly though. I have to find a good recipe for crow.

Posted by: Oil Field Trash at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (x/Nq/)

360 You're influential. Name names. Other than the usual suspects who are you talking about? Which media pundits? Which posters? Screw'em get personal.

Posted by: yan yanston at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (f56b1)

361 Shocking new photo leaked of Hillary without makeup, giving speech at custom walker disguised as a podium!
http://tinyurl.com/h6gbusf
Yes, it's SFW

Posted by: Grimaldi at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (V/f/L)

362 Just for the record, there is no statutory number for the supreme court. Nine members is just a tradition.

Correct. An odd number results in actual decisions being made, but is not necessary or constitutionally mandated. Roosevelt tried to put more on so he could get a majority that just rubber stamped his Socialist agenda, but finally was blocked by a generally gonadless congress.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (39g3+)

363 Ace's statement that #NeverTrump prefered candidate is Hillary is mostly bullshit. I'm sure there are a few. But for me and most #NeverTrump I know the #NeverHillary is a given. Gun to my head binary decision? Pull the trigger we lost Al hope with the Primary.

Posted by: The Sampo at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (VnP/f)

364
Donald Trump is a classic loudmouth New York bullshit artist. But even with his failures and bankruptcies he's made more money for more people than

As far his failures and bankruptcies go,I take into account he was in a highly volatile business

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (lKyWE)

365 349, Thanks!
This week probably won't work, since I'm busy studying for finals, but next week might be doable.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (Z075/)
Good luck for the finals, Alex!! Email me when there is a time and day that works for you. Graduate school is a crazy, busy time I know.

Posted by: IC at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (a0IVu)

366 I think we should invoke a new rule here stating that
"henceforth before typing any words that support Trump, you shall state how horrible he is first."

Or it could be the 1st actual AoSHQ Commandment.

"Thou shall first signal thy virtue before stating you support Trump"

Seem legit to y'all?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Imperialist. Unprincipled. Vulgar Trump-tard. at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (d76uN)

367 354 I am a proud #NeverTrump Republican for Hillary. Trump has hijacked my party and made it a white nationalist/populist party. I want Hillary to win so the white nationalist/populists are crushed. If the Left gets the court so be it. I view them as lesser of evils.
Posted by: #NeverTrump Republican at September 29, 2016 04:14 PM (VhPjL)

Reginald Denny Republicans!

Enjoy your beat-down, if you survive. The young couple in Knoxville didn't.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 04:16 PM (ujg0T)

368 324 If the assertions in this article are true, I find it inevitable that we are headed down a path to violence.

... and we have a winner.

Posted by: ScoggDog at September 29, 2016 04:17 PM (RKJF2)

369 Trump Advice Network:

Yeah, right, home grown terrorists. But let me ask you this: why do you think it's such a great idea to keep importing the seeds?

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at September 29, 2016 04:17 PM (hKi6n)

370 I take reconsideration and rethinking based on changed circumstances to be a rather more important principle than "I said this once on Twitter so now it's my life's Mantra."

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (dciA+)

"When the facts change I change my mind. What do you do?" - John M. Keynes

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 04:17 PM (hLRSq)

371 So a President Trump will be under intense media scrutiny, no backdoor exec order shenanigans.
A President Trump can only sign or veto legislation put in front of him.
A President Trump will not have the support of the D's and most of the R's.
Businessman Trump always seemed to surround himself with competent people and if he is honest about whom he intends on nominating for Dept. heads, seems to be on a conservative/smaller govt. trajectory.
What more damage could a President Trump do, than a President Clinton II do ?

Posted by: Al Leppo at September 29, 2016 04:17 PM (vmsda)

372 I am a proud snake handler for Hillary. She makes me hot. and Because of all the racism. That's why I'm joining up with the proud parent of the Klan. Cause I'm smart like that.

Posted by: #neverthink troll at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (326rv)

373 One-man Supreme Court?

I'm available.

Posted by: Judge Dredd at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (nGtPk)

374 ...but they're not really "representatives" either are they?
Unless they're all the Member of Congress representing the Chamber of Congress and Montsato.
Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (dciA+)
-------------------------------
Elected (with handful of exceptions) in free and fair elections, no?

Perhaps a new electorate is needed. /s

(Another reason to go Democrat.)

Posted by: RioBravo at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (NUqwG)

375 "Drudge has a video up of a Hillary crowd chasing and beating a Trump
supporter wearing a hat. This is where Hillary is taking us"

Good. Then it means we can start shooting back in self-defense.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (0xzXo)

376 Posted by: jwest at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (Zs4uk)

We haven't had a competent managerial executive in the Oval Office since at least Reagan, and that's being charitable to Reagan.

You can pick almost any part of the federal budget at random and you will see gross dysfunction.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (fgOnp)

377 @319 Trump just ended a stump speech with "We're going to put new American steel into a new American spine."

You know my rule; if it sounds fascist in German, it's probably fascist. Yet and still, as my 3d cousin used to say, there is some substance in those words. And the crowd was throwing chairs like it was a very friendly Bier Hall Putsch in there.

There are other things besides cars that you can make out of steel, just saying. Making stuff is good for you, right down in your nubbins. Only a fag thinks everything's about to come out of a 3D printer.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (H5rtT)

378 Reginald Denny Republicans!
--------------
Are those related to the Denny Hastert Rupublicans?

Posted by: RioBravo at September 29, 2016 04:19 PM (NUqwG)

379 In the law look for SHARIA:

1. Toleration

2. Equalization

3. COMPLIANCE

Posted by: Minuteman at September 29, 2016 04:20 PM (zKlQa)

380
You know my rule; if it sounds fascist in German, it's probably fascist

Ordering lunch in German sound fascist

Posted by: Deplorabe Male Logic at September 29, 2016 04:20 PM (lKyWE)

381 Businessman Trump always seemed to surround himself with competent people

This I'm not as strong on as I used to be. His campaign staff was largely made up of imbeciles and freaks who babbled moronic crap. I mean the guy hired a campaign manager who has white supremacist ties.

So I'm not as certain as I once was that he'll be king executive with the best staff.

Better than Hillary's all-dyke staff of ideological zealots picked for purity of dogma over ability, but still... not the best of the best.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:20 PM (39g3+)

382 I have thought for some time that this election is for all the marbles.
And no way I want Hillary to have all the marbles.

Posted by: tubal at September 29, 2016 04:20 PM (d6TTt)

383 >>>>
I am a 3 issues voter this round.

1. Courts

2. Immigration

3. American Economy

............

Concise. I'll add:

4. National debt
.
.
.No longer an issue with me. If interest rates climb back to historical levels ~3% we aren't even gong to be able to afford the interest after we pay out all of the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid money.

The only sane way that gets addressed is default.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at September 29, 2016 04:20 PM (iONHu)

384 All solid points in the original post. I'll counter with this:

The one and only thing that brought and kept western civilization out of a Malthusian/Hobbesian world of stagnation was and is free market economics and the steady expansion of trade in the 1300-1600s as the western world abandoned mercantilist policy and turned to Smith. The result was called the "Industrial Revolution" and it was not just the largest increase in human well-being known to man -- it's the only time in human history that anyone but the elites saw any increase in well-being whatsoever.

On the other hand, the last time the US abandoned those principles was known as the "Great Depression."

Donald Trump is a straight up mercantilist. God help us, we're doomed either way. Whose party label do you want stuck next to "collapse of the United States" when the history books are written?

Posted by: Sayyid at September 29, 2016 04:20 PM (Wz+TY)

385 A thought on the Supreme Court. Increasingly we are relying on the Supreme Court to be the ultimate judge for anything that comes from the Executive or Legislative branches.

Are we becoming too dependent on the SC? They are, after all supposed to be equals. But they now have become the final arbiter of everything.

This trend concerns me. Perhaps not in 5 years or even 10, but this dependence, this power shift, could come back and bite us in the ass. Are we not slowly creating a government headed by (at least for now) 9 individuals - with one vacancy?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 29, 2016 04:21 PM (jxbfJ)

386 On the other side of the bullshit scales is this crap about empowering white supremacy. Yes, there are some of those people supporting Trump. But mostly what you see are a bunch of teenagers tweaking the state religion to be edgy. Screw it, I hope they keep it up. And I hope the next round of teenagers has their fun at the expense of whatever the state religion is then.

Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 04:22 PM (mrfTe)

387 Only a fag thinks everything's about to come out of a 3D printer.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (H5rtT)
------------------------------------
Conservatives should philosophically prefer 3D (additive) manufacture to subtractive manufacture shouldn't they? Or is that the Libertarians?

Posted by: RioBravo at September 29, 2016 04:22 PM (NUqwG)

388 In Race Relations look for:

1.African American Exceptionalism (Only Black Lives Matter)

2. Black Superiority

3. Black Supremism (Perpetual Reparations)

Posted by: Minuteman at September 29, 2016 04:22 PM (zKlQa)

389 On the bright side, the upcoming civil war will start sooner

Posted by: Floyd Winston at September 29, 2016 04:22 PM (OCUhH)

390 o I'm not as certain as I once was that he'll be king executive with the best staff.

I'll give him a pass as a political outsider. But he made some positive changes when he had to.

Posted by: Al Leppo at September 29, 2016 04:22 PM (vmsda)

391 367
Unlike you scared white nationalists I don't fear Blacks or other minorities. Your mindset is why I am voting for Hillary. Just to see the crying from the white nationalists over Trump losing would be a spectacular sight to behold.

Posted by: #NeverTrump Republican at September 29, 2016 04:23 PM (Ky7P9)

392 None of these arguments are for Trump. They are all against Hillary.

When will Ace give us an argument *for* Trump?

Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:23 PM (1Ip2/)

393 >>>So you have converted this #NeverTrumper. I will cease to heckle him on Social media and in public. Give me another few days to work up to saying I'm voting for him publicly though. I have to find a good recipe for crow.

wow, thanks.

You don't have to eat any crow.

it's very uncommon for any blogpost to change anyone's mind so you've made my day by saying this did something for you.

(People say I write nice posts a lot, but that's different than saying "This changed my mind.")

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:23 PM (dciA+)

394 Pt. 2 is up...

Posted by: deplorable donna at September 29, 2016 04:23 PM (O2RFr)

395 4. National debt
.
.
.No longer an issue with me. If interest rates climb back to historical levels ~3% we aren't even gong to be able to afford the interest after we pay out all of the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid money.

The only sane way that gets addressed is default.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman

I feel the same way.

We're basically the equivalent of being $100 million upside down on a $200k house.

It doesn't matter how much Spam you eat to save money, it's going to require a default.

Posted by: Maritime at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (onbPc)

396 I thought unions were very proactive about detecting and rooting out "scabs"

The place I was at went on strike. There were scabs there who were on strike at another place next state over.

Solidarity!

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (QM5S2)

397 Good. Then it means we can start shooting back in self-defense.
Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at September 29, 2016 04:18 PM (0xzXo)
---
that's why i'm going to take away all your guns

Posted by: President Hillary at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (aEZpQ)

398 In Gun Rights look for:

1. Limitations for safety

2. Limitations for authority

3. Confiscation

Posted by: Minuteman at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (zKlQa)

399 Ace, you're putting forward the most apocalyptic vision of Hillary's presidency, and demand it be accepted as a given. I used to buy into scenarios like that about Obama, but after the 2014 mid-terms, after Republicans coming to dominate both houses of the legislature and the state governments, after uprisings against the left by non-conservatives like we saw in incidents like GamerGate and Sad Puppies, after Republicans being very competitive in this general election despite running the most widely loathed presidential candidate in the history of either party, I just don't buy the hysteria anymore.

Sure, I'll grant that losing the Supreme Court will have real consequences (assuming an extremely unpopular candidate like Hillary can push a permanent appointment through Congress), that despite being mostly shut-down pretty well in the legislature post-Obamacare that Obama has gotten dozens of nasty little executive orders issued, and that there are serious issues with unaccountable left-wing federal bureaucracies. But I don't buy that any of it is historically unprecedented or insurmountable or even novel (and while the left have the edge, I no longer think this is exclusive to them), not anymore. I think the gay marriage issue was an anomaly, due to more gay people coming out post-AIDS crisis and people being more aware of gay people in their social sphere via social media. You can justify your vote by saying I'm wrong, and these are end times, and I'm fine with you doing that, but you can't just expect me to buy into your scenario so easily, especially when your faction is the one arguing in terms of emotional fanaticism.

Let me see you hash these points out with Drew M or Charles Cooke in a podcast, in a real back and forth, and I'll give them the consideration you think they deserve from me. If you can't do that, then it's an unserious position born of emotion.

Posted by: reform highlander at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (jCH/T)

400 decent point, casualness of expression.

but they're not really "representatives" either are they?

Unless they're all the Member of Congress representing the Chamber of Congress and Montsato.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:13 PM (dciA+)

well, thanks for answering.

my point is that they are elected as representatives. we do not go to the polls to elect someone to lead us, we go to the polls to elect someone to represent us, to implement our desires. they are essentially exercising our proxy. beyond semantics I think it is an important distinction.

I do agree with your use of "betters", "rulers" if you us it because both of those conform to their attitude and behavior. Leader seems to be something they are not even though it is something they would desire to be called.

Posted by: yankeefifth at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (cPsPa)

401 "When the facts change I change my mind. What do you do?" - John M. Keynes
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 04:17 PM (hLRSq)

On that note, it seems to me that the principled NeverTrumpers are holding out for a TrueRepublican to come along in the long run.

However, in the long run, we are all DEAD.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (ujg0T)

402 Posted by: Sayyid at September 29, 2016 04:20 PM (Wz+TY)

Adam Smith did not write until the late 1700's. The world has never abandoned mercantilist policies - nations always look after their own interests. If you are in doubt I'll direct you to the duty free shop at the airport.

If the USA collapses worrying about party labels will be the last thing that goes through your mind. Well, the stone axe blade will be last, but you get the idea.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (hLRSq)

403 I'll give him a pass as a political outsider.

There's something to that, although this isn't his first rodeo, so you'd think he would have been more careful.

Unless he didn't expect to do so well, which is a real possibility.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (39g3+)

404 Wait until some Facebook like purity panel can petition the UN to turn off your domain because it isn't a safe place.

Posted by: Jean at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (ngn8T)

405 Incidentally, I can presume, that since Ace isn't offering any pro-Trump arguments, but only anti-Hillary arguments, that had, say, Rubio won the primary, he would be posting screeds against those who refused to vote for Rubio, imploring them to vote for Rubio, even though it would most certainly have meant amnesty, because 'Hillary would be worse'?

Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (1Ip2/)

406 Posted by: Yuimetal at September 29, 2016 04:09 PM (iFgwk)

Only 6% of Private sector jobs are Union.

35% of Public Sector (government) jobs are.

IMO Unions should not be able to give to Candidates... especially Public Sector Unions... its legal bribery of your own boss.

Posted by: Don Q. at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (qf6WZ)

407

RE: "They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being
de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the
remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers"
I care about that. But . . . regrettably . . . the Trumpies "solution" to that is 1) no free trade, and 2) make the minimum wage higher and 3) give free childcare to everybody -- thus making the actual *problem* with working classes losing jobs *even worse* since all of that makes the cost of employment even higher and it's already hideously high. Trump's solutions are just like Hillary's solutions [because, you know -- they're both Democrats but one was honest enough to run under the party of the Democrats] -- big government, limited individual liberty, fewer free markets. He's waved his hand a bit at lessening regulation -- another HUGE cost of employment right there. But mostly he's all about the goodies and no free trade and The Wall. I'm all for The Wall, I just don't approve of his really awful "solutions" to the problem of the middle class losing jobs right and left and center.
RE: "They just want to talk about "recapturing the party"
and "renewing the party" and that kind of airy facile nonsense that is
only of interest to someone who is financially well-off enough to be
largely immune from the maladministration of government."

I'm not financially well off at all -- I would be *better off* under Donald Trump's slightly less-collectivist-but-still-big-government economic policies than Hillary's. But unfortunately, the *country* will be worse off under a President Trump as we will be moved exponentially farther away from an actual conservative opposition party, just as we were when GWB expanded Medicare, issued the monstrous TARP bailouts, and completed an even larger Federal takeover of local public schools to the cheers of the Republican Party, who would have screamed bloody murder at all of that if it had been initiated by a President Clinton or President Obama or President Clinton.

But I care more about the country's wellbeing than I do my own pocketbook. I'm beginning to think that the increasing shrillness of those outraged over the many who won't be voting for Trump is more hysterical terror over their own personal further discomfort.

The three reasons are more of the She Is The Worstest Candidate Ever In The World And Our Country Is Forever Destroyed If She Is Elected -- as we heard when Bill Clinton ran, and then when he ran again, and then when Gore ran, and then when Obama ran, and then when he ran again. Each time we were informed that this time the Republican was ruined if we didn't get right out there and vote for the awful Republican candidate.

Posted by: Igor at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (FfQXL)

408 The place I was at went on strike. There were scabs there who were on strike at another place next state over.

Solidarity!
Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (QM5S2)
-------------------------
Free and fair competition between unions leads to stronger and more efficient unions.

Posted by: RioBravo at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (NUqwG)

409 I want to know who here ever said that Trump was a conservative? Who has ever even tried to make that argument? And yet I've been reading posts all day here that set up and knock down that stupid strawman, and it's kind of irritating.

Posted by: Dirty Randy at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (jjaLl)

410 Bad day to stump for High Speed Rail in Hoboken.

You know that happened in DC once, couple days before Ike's inauguration.
And the name of the train was "Federal Express." Who the hell would name...

And so hundreds of thousands of people walked across the boarded-up floor of DC's incredible Temple of Transport to start the new era, blissfully unaware there was a literal train wreck in the basement beneath their feet. I like metaphors.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (H5rtT)

411 None of these arguments are for Trump. They are all against Hillary.

When will Ace give us an argument *for* Trump?
Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:23 PM (1Ip2/)

Don't know about Ace, but in my opinion, he has executive experience, and has had to work with individuals to achieve his aims.
He has resiliency in his reversals, and shows resolve.

Posted by: tubal at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (d6TTt)

412 I ask these fuckers at NRO what they've done with the current eight years of "wilderness" and what they have to show for it. Cold fusion?

South Park has a new episode that is topical. Mr. Garrison is eratz Trump, and Hillary is Hillary.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (VdICR)

413 so what percentage of nevertrumpers voted for romney? how do you square the circle of voting for romney but not trump?

Posted by: yankeefifth at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (cPsPa)

414 384
Trump is a Socialist as well. It's funny to see people who used to believe in free markets adopt Marxist economic principles all becaus they are afraid of non whites.

Posted by: #NeverTrump Republican at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (Ky7P9)

415 401 "When the facts change I change my mind. What do you do?" - John M. Keynes
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 04:17 PM (hLRSq)

On that note, it seems to me that the principled NeverTrumpers are holding out for a TrueRepublican to come along in the long run.

However, in the long run, we are all DEAD.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 04:24 PM (ujg0T)

Steiner is coming.....

Posted by: GOPe at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (qf6WZ)

416 Trump Advice Network:

Lester, yeah he's a nice enough guy, jumped all over me because I don't think you look presidential. You don't. You sure didn't look presidential when you sold out American uranium interests to Russia and your husband cashed a a $500 thousand dollar check for giving a speech. You didn't look presidential when you gave the Russians the reset button, yeah the one that said "overcharge" in Russian. You didn't look presidential when you called half the country "deplorable." You didn't look presidential when you called the families of dead American heroes liars. The heroes you abandoned and then lied about. Yeah, you look presidential.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (hKi6n)

417 nood

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 29, 2016 04:27 PM (aEZpQ)

418 >>>342 We're not some noble uprising--we're a bunch of rubes who got played and now we have to make the best of it.
Posted by: spongeworthy at September 29, 2016 04:11 PM (mrfTe)

Rubes?? Nix on that nibble, Hemingway. We're not chum for the sharpers. You ain't chinning wit a bunch of skid rogues here. We're just a bunch of palookas like to bump gums now and then about life and dames and maybe peep a nice pair of getaway sticks once in a while. Some of us might be a little more bing than the mugs that are hitting on all eight, but we're all jakeloo. That's flat.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at September 29, 2016 04:27 PM (EWcNW)

419 It becomes more and more ridiculous to hear people justify why they can vote for the biggest grifters that have ever been in government because the won't lower their standards to vote for Trump. I can't take it any more.

Posted by: Brad at September 29, 2016 04:27 PM (arypP)

420 Ace, you're putting forward the most apocalyptic vision of Hillary's presidency, and demand it be accepted as a given.

I know, right? This is like the unhinged left after 2004 promising that Bush would usher in the newest fascist state using the Patriot Act and the War on Terror as a pretense to turn America into the Fourth Reich.

Furthermore quite a few Trumpists give Trump the benefit of the doubt and otherwise cast him in the most favorable light possible.

Is it possible at all to discuss Trump and Hillary on a somewhat equal footing? Both of them would be bad for the Republic in different ways, but neither one of them is going to usher in the Next American Gulag.

Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:27 PM (1Ip2/)

421 Unlike you scared white nationalists I don't fear Blacks or other minorities. Your mindset is why I am voting for Hillary. Just to see the crying from the white nationalists over Trump losing would be a spectacular sight to behold.

Posted by: #NeverTrump Republican at September 29, 2016 04:23 PM (Ky7P9)

Huh. I guess I'm an Uncle Pinoy.

Posted by: Country Singer (gab @BertG) at September 29, 2016 04:28 PM (uiwCw)

422 413
Romney ran as an economic Conservative and did not play upon racial resentment. I was proud to vote for that man.

Posted by: #NeverTrump Republican at September 29, 2016 04:28 PM (Ky7P9)

423 405 Incidentally, I can presume, that since Ace isn't offering any pro-Trump arguments, but only anti-Hillary arguments, that had, say, Rubio won the primary, he would be posting screeds against those who refused to vote for Rubio, imploring them to vote for Rubio, even though it would most certainly have meant amnesty, because 'Hillary would be worse'?
Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (1Ip2/)

Yep. I sure would.

The primaries are the primaries, the general election is for all the marbles.

Reality is what it is.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 04:28 PM (ujg0T)

424 I want to know who here ever said that Trump was a conservative?
Posted by: Dirty Randy at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (jjaLl)
------------------------------
I may have. If not, then: Trump is a conservative.

Posted by: RioBravo at September 29, 2016 04:28 PM (NUqwG)

425
I feel the same way.

We're basically the equivalent of being $100 million upside down on a $200k house.

It doesn't matter how much Spam you eat to save money, it's going to require a default.
Posted by: Maritime

Trump is the expert at reorganization thru bankruptcies.

Posted by: Jean at September 29, 2016 04:29 PM (ngn8T)

426 Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (1Ip2/)

The primaries are over, for God's sake man stop mourning like Queen Victoria!

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 04:29 PM (hLRSq)

427 "I'm going away this weekend and I'll be staying in a cabin with three #nevertrump guys. What's the best way to ward off or mask the smell of their shrivelled, sandy little vaginas?"

Ballistol and CLP

Posted by: doesky2 at September 29, 2016 04:31 PM (Zpygp)

428 424 I want to know who here ever said that Trump was a conservative?
Posted by: Dirty Randy at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (jjaLl)
------------------------------
I may have. If not, then: Trump is a conservative.
Posted by: RioBravo at September 29, 2016 04:28 PM (NUqwG)

Hmmm.... Trump likes the old Capitalist Strong Arrogant America... the one that had swagger and at times told the world to F off...

So.... for some meanings of Conservative.... hmmm

Posted by: Don Q. at September 29, 2016 04:31 PM (qf6WZ)

429 Kurt Schlicter expressed it well when he noted that sure, free trade may be a good idea in the aggregate - but what if you happen not to be part of the aggregate?

I had lunch with some folks from Ohio at a business meeting on Tuesday. They indicated their state was not doing well economically and that a lot of people were hurting. Ditto for my mid-Atlantic state.

Not that Obama has much good to point to in his miserable economy, but macroeconomic gains (such as they are) do not always translate to a rising tide that lifts all boats.

Posted by: RM at September 29, 2016 04:32 PM (U3LtS)

430 If you vote "None of the Above" then Richard Pryor gets to be president.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at September 29, 2016 04:32 PM (xfb67)

431 The "Other-ing" is a feature, not a bug to a leftist. Don't ask them to pass a political Turing test because they wouldn't want to.

racist, sexist, homophobic, islamiphobic, you name it! said the greedy old whore, showing a flicker of joy.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at September 29, 2016 04:33 PM (VdICR)

432 "They don't seem to give a shit that the entire midwest is being de-instrustrialized, the working classes being immiserated by the remorseless importation of low-skilled Replacement Workers."

They don't SEEM to give a shit because they DON'T give a shit. As long as they can keep teh wages of lower class people down and mainatin enough unemployed slack in teh labor market to resiste wage increases or unionization, they are happy with the economic situation.

Yellen keeping interest rates in the sewer so their financial assets, homes and art collections appreciate makes it all even nicer.

Posted by: mhj at September 29, 2016 04:33 PM (FZdvr)

433 All of Boring Chemjeff's new points, that he hasn't voiced before, are in an animated magenta font. Thanks Pixy.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at September 29, 2016 04:35 PM (VdICR)

434 @426 mourning like Queen Victoria
good one Mikey. Sharp tongue you've got there.

Her underwear may have reeked of Patchouli (look it up!), but she never drank at Applebee's.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at September 29, 2016 04:35 PM (H5rtT)

435 Is it possible at all to discuss Trump and Hillary on a somewhat equal footing? Both of them would be bad for the Republic in different ways, but neither one of them is going to usher in the Next American Gulag.
Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:27 PM (1Ip2/)

sorry, but this is where you are wrong.

Even 4 years of Hillary takes us down a path which this country will not recover from...

You cannot put a crook in charge of the Police, and expect good things.

And you cannot expect good things letting a crook appoint Judges.... FOR LIFE.

You cannot expect a Sec State who got us into 3 different conflicts, with NO WINS, and started a ruckus with Russia, to suddenly do well when you give her a PROMOTION.

Trump and Hillary are like night and day.... even though folks like you want to speak of them as equivalently evil.

Posted by: Don Q. at September 29, 2016 04:35 PM (qf6WZ)

436
chemjeff just took a swan dive into the Barrel and I missed it

It's fun in there, eh?

Posted by: Harmonious Fists at September 29, 2016 04:35 PM (46QoI)

437 RE: "In the end, it is foolish pride."

No - -it's just that some of us actually weighed the consequences of a Trump nomination back almost a year ago, looked at Hillary, looked at the consequences again -- and said, as we have done for a long long time now "hey guys -- Trump is a bridge too far and I don't vote for liberals anyway -- sure hope he's not nominated because he won't get my vote."

And having actually *seen* and *weighed* the consequences way back then, and nothing new actually being said about said consequences that we hadn't already seen, we said what we said because we actually -- with knowledge aforethought -- meant what we said.

Posted by: Igor at September 29, 2016 04:37 PM (FfQXL)

438 The three reasons are more of the She Is The Worstest Candidate Ever In The World And Our Country Is Forever Destroyed If She Is Elected -- as we heard when Bill Clinton ran, and then when he ran again, and then when Gore ran, and then when Obama ran, and then when he ran again. Each time we were informed that this time the Republican was ruined if we didn't get right out there and vote for the awful Republican candidate.
Posted by: Igor at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (FfQXL)

Sorry Igor, but from Bill to Barack, we have gone from sleazy sex scandals, to a demogogue inciting race riots. Yes, it HAS gotten worse.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at September 29, 2016 04:37 PM (ujg0T)

439 "I'm not a church-going person, but I don't want to see a United States where the devout have to go underground in order to worship in peace. Because 1st Amendment, of course, but mostly because Western Civilization would not exist without the Judeo-Christian tradition. Destroy Christianity and Judaism, and civilization DIES."

Uh oh......somebody didn't pay attention in their leftist indoctrination classes from kindergarten-thru-college.

As Prager has been saying for decades...Secular government good......Secular society bad

Posted by: doesky2 at September 29, 2016 04:39 PM (Zpygp)

440 This trend concerns me. Perhaps not in 5 years or even 10, but this dependence, this power shift, could come back and bite us in the ass. Are we not slowly creating a government headed by (at least for now) 9 individuals - with one vacancy?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed

A little late to the game. I'd say we've been there since Roe v. Wade, definitely since Kelo.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, convening Horde Thunderdome at September 29, 2016 04:40 PM (9krrF)

441 They are all kept men of Bruce Kovner so I don't know that their comfortable situation is really all the result of hard work. When Bruce Kovner says NeverTrump, it's no surprise that they all jump.

Posted by: bjk at September 29, 2016 04:40 PM (+5P2g)

442 >>>he implications of a far-left Supreme Court is what got me on the Trump Train.

That's what made me ANTI-Trump and pushing very hard for Cruz, away from Trump, who I knew would cause the Comfortable Class to defect.

However, what's done is done. The court is still the prize. We either have to win, or we can fucking just give up now.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:40 PM (dciA+)

443 Posted by: *Mikey NTH - M.A.G.A. Lace Helicopter Wigs are at The Outrage Outlet! at September 29, 2016 04:25 PM (hLRSq)

You are correct on the date. I used the name as shorthand. No one wants to read a complete economic history tracing things from Aristotle's musings on monopoly through Mercantilism through the Physiocrats etc. etc. The fact remains that it was the resumption and normalization of trade relationships that allowed the industrial revolution to occur.

Posted by: Sayyid at September 29, 2016 04:41 PM (Wz+TY)

444 IMO Unions should not be able to give to Candidates... especially Public Sector Unions... its legal bribery of your own boss.
Posted by: Don Q.

It's worse than that. We are the boss. It's legal bribery of someone who should be negotiating on our behalf, trying to get the best deal for us, and instead f*cks us over.

Posted by: Yuimetal at September 29, 2016 04:41 PM (iFgwk)

445 chemjeff just took a swan dive into the Barrel and I missed it

It's fun in there, eh?

Posted by: Harmonious Fists at September 29, 2016 04:35 PM

It was until he got here.

Posted by: The Barrel at September 29, 2016 04:42 PM (bzd8I)

446 428
424 I want to know who here ever said that Trump was a conservative?

Posted by: Dirty Randy at September 29, 2016 04:26 PM (jjaLl)

------------------------------

I may have. If not, then: Trump is a conservative.

Posted by: RioBravo at September 29, 2016 04:28 PM (NUqwG)

Hmmm.... Trump likes the old Capitalist Strong Arrogant America...
the one that had swagger and at times told the world to F off...

So.... for some meanings of Conservative.... hmmm

Posted by: Don Q. at September 29, 2016 04:31 PM (qf6WZ)

I wasn't saying he doesn't have conservative stances on some things, and I wasn't disparaging Trump- I'm all for him.
I was talking about some NT's that use this horseshit "You pro-Trump people have sold out by saying how conservative he is when he really isn't!" argument... so I was curious as to who was making this full-throated defense of Trumps "pure conservative " nature. I just don't remember anyone doing that.

Posted by: Dirty Randy at September 29, 2016 04:42 PM (jjaLl)

447 How many current NR writers have not had a gay sex experience (asking for a friend)

Posted by: Jihadi at September 29, 2016 04:43 PM (jvCdG)

448 It's a healthy development in a way. As National Review becomes more reliant on their donors, more people are recognizing that they are primarily an advocacy organ of their donors and not some sort of quasi-academic group of objective analysts measuring policies and politicians against the American national interest.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at September 29, 2016 04:05 PM (fgOnp)

If Trump wins the election, the next NR cruise might be held in a rowboat paddling around Long Island Sound.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at September 29, 2016 04:44 PM (u0lmX)

449 The frustration and aggravation we feel from the continual assault from the left is only the emotional part of the Democrat dog and pony show. It has very real economic consequences as well.

From what I hear, college under Democrat rule is now pretty much assumed to be a right. Sort of like settled science. Sooooo, let's reach a little deeper in our pockets, everyone, to pay for other people's kids' (does this include kids of illegal aliens too?) college educations.

And, by the way, speaking of settled science, set a little more aside for whatever the left decides we need to do about global warming.

Hey, no problem, your kids can just go somewhere lower priced for their college education. And even though you put your money aside so they could attend private school, college, or grad school, why should your kids be entitled to any more than anyone else? Check your privilege until you bleed.

Posted by: RM at September 29, 2016 04:44 PM (U3LtS)

450 This election is for ALL of the marbles. NT folks who think that they can teach the GOP statists a lesson have yet to figure out that such lessons were presented in 2008 and 2012 with no effect.

When we lose American control of the service that manages the internet, we will lose a vital link in our ability to communicate with each other freely and with minimal interference from government entities (foreign and domestic). When certain campaign laws curtailing what can and can't be done in an election cycle (and beyond it) are unleashed, our ability to affect change will be minimalized, if not taken out. And without a Chief Executive who solidly supports the right to bare arms, the last tools in our tool box will be removed.

So what happens if the nightmare scenario becomes reality? If the election is lost by fractions of percentages, the NT crowd will and should rightfully claim victory. Somehow, being able to say "I told you" so won't feel so good when we (as a former democratic republic) take those last few steps into the abyss.

I'm not sure I am ready to jump sides, but I am prepared to help form and support a new American party in the mold of the Founding Fathers. And not one more nanosecond of interest in supporting whatever is left of the GOP.

If the Cylons win, we'll all be on a seemingly endless quest...

Posted by: itzWicks at September 29, 2016 04:47 PM (Ql1ja)

451 Even 4 years of Hillary takes us down a path which this country will not recover from...

Oh bullshit. This is more apocalyptic nonsense.

If the fate of the nation supposedly hinges on this one election, then here is a news flash, IT'S ALREADY TOO LATE. We are already doomed. In which case it doesn't matter who we vote for.

And if you think Hillary is literally the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler and Mao - and I mean literally, as in starting gulags and gas chambers and forced starvation - then yes, voting for anyone to stop that makes sense.

But Hillary is not that, and neither is Trump.

I don't think they are equivalently bad. I think they are both simply bad.

Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:48 PM (1Ip2/)

452 420 Ace, you're putting forward the most apocalyptic vision of Hillary's presidency, and demand it be accepted as a given.

I know, right? This is like the unhinged left after 2004 promising that Bush would usher in the newest fascist state using the Patriot Act and the War on Terror as a pretense to turn America into the Fourth Reich.

Furthermore quite a few Trumpists give Trump the benefit of the doubt and otherwise cast him in the most favorable light possible.

Is it possible at all to discuss Trump and Hillary on a somewhat equal footing? Both of them would be bad for the Republic in different ways, but neither one of them is going to usher in the Next American Gulag.
Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:27 PM (1Ip2/)

Except Hillary is on the record (on video you can YouTube) calling for CAMPS FOR ADULTS. FUN CAMPS.

Also, the Patriot Act has been abused and under Obama has been turned and used to Weaponize The Government. So the left and the Ron Paul right was correct.

Posted by: Pepe, The Irredeemable at September 29, 2016 04:49 PM (pcbAL)

453 Dennis Prager, Sheriff Clark, Hugh Hewitt, and others gets jetted around the country in a Gulfstream to give public speeches for Trump yet he cannot break through the bubble surrounding Trump.

Prager volunteered free time to consult or write speeches. Declined by team Trump.

Prager recounts how team Romney campaign manager bragged to him that "I have no ideology besides the ideology of winning"....Yeah, how'd that all work for ya?

Posted by: doesky2 at September 29, 2016 04:49 PM (Zpygp)

454 Too apocalyptic?

Is not the ass reaming the country got under Obama enough? Do you require more ass reaming?

Posted by: Make America Great Again at September 29, 2016 04:51 PM (gwwEL)

455 You are voting for one this November:

Trump
or
Your ego

Choose wisely.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 29, 2016 04:52 PM (V3IFq)

456 Instapundit linked to an interesting story today about how Greenwich, CT, long one of the wealthiest burgs in the country, is becoming a "ghost town." The Mercedes and Porsches in the car lots are not being sold. Billionaires who have tried to sell their ritzy mansions have been forced to cut their asking price by as much as 30 percent - and there are still no takers.

The reason? Hedge funds are not doing well right now. Also - CT's high taxes.

Elections have consequences, even for you, 1 percenters.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at September 29, 2016 04:53 PM (u0lmX)

457 Except Hillary is on the record (on video you can YouTube) calling for CAMPS FOR ADULTS. FUN CAMPS.

Yes. She was speaking at a conference concerning summer camps. She made a tone-deaf remark suggesting that, hey, kids have fun at summer camps, and adults seem so stressed with all of their adult responsibilities, why not have summer camps for adults too?

It was a stupid suggestion, but her "camps" in this context bear no resemblance to Stalin's gulags.

Unless of course you are going to read into every single one of Hillary's words the darkest possible meaning. Which is fine, of course, but then why don't Trump's remarks get the same level of analysis? When Trump says that maybe we should "reopen the libel laws", why doesn't that get the same level of OMG HE'S GOING TO SHRED THE FIRST AMENDMENT type of hysterical coverage?

Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:54 PM (1Ip2/)

458 She's not even very good at being a criminal. It's embarrassing.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at September 29, 2016 04:55 PM (VdICR)

459 Yes. He was speaking at a conference concerning ~~summer camps~~ . She made a tone-deaf remark suggesting that, hey, kids have fun at summer camps, and adults seem so stressed with all of their adult responsibilities, why not have summer camps for adults too?

It was a stupid suggestion, but her "camps" in this context bear no resemblance to Stalin's gulags.

Posted by: chemjeff

Odd how you are unwilling to allow Trump the same kind of rhetorical flights of fancy.

Odd.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 29, 2016 04:56 PM (V3IFq)

460 "Oh bullshit. This is more apocalyptic nonsense."

I for one hope your choking on today's FBI collusion bit. That is exactly a sure sign that we our way to the apocolypse. For the nation I mean. The one built on laws and such.

To ignore what will absolutely take place should Hillary get 3 SCOTUS picks which is the end of the nation as we know it is simply being willfully blind.

And please, Save the "Trump will do the same thing" or "Trump is lying" gab.
It seriously reminds me of how the Glen Beck types pulled off an Inception on themselves and planted a BS seed in their minds of a false narrative that grew like a cancer and they cannot shake.

Hillary literally is the end of the nation as we know it. From everything from the 1st and 2nd amendments to religious institutions being crushed and forced to capitulate to the will of the government or fade away.

Posted by: Drider at September 29, 2016 04:58 PM (6Xbsz)

461 I've thought about the problems with the GOP lately and think one demographic that is killing them is the increased ratio of urban vs. rural dwellers in the U.S.

Urban dwellers tend to vote Democratic; rural voters tend to vote Republican. Urban living tends to increase the need of government laws, regulations, and services so voting Democratic at the national level is easier.

It's going to be hard for the GOP to break this demographic voting trend. It would be a lot easier if they had a candidate who could relate to the rural voter, the voter who works with his hands, the voter who had to make his own fortune. It would also help if we had a candidate who could relate to middle-class suburbia and the travails of raising a family in today's middle class America.

Alas, we have a candidate who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and never took it out. A candidate who has no real platform other than what comes to his mind at a certain moment. A candidate who is a flat-out narcissist.

The similarities between Trump and Clinton are eerie.

Posted by: MacGruber at September 29, 2016 04:59 PM (sgrzZ)

462 "The similarities between Trump and Clinton are eerie."

Man, I remember Ronald Reagan dealing with Tip O'Neill.

The similarities between Ronald Reagan and Trump are eerie.

Posted by: Drider at September 29, 2016 05:01 PM (6Xbsz)

463 "We are already doomed. In which case it doesn't matter who we vote for."

Beg to differ. I personally feel we have passed the tipping point and are in the boat that seems to be moving slowly toward danger, but just passed the sign on the river to Niagara Falls that says it is too late to turn around. I could be wrong, and certainly hope I am. Maybe we may not have quite reached the sign.

Just because I may view the future as an almost inevitable liberal, 1984-lite hell, does not mean I won't try to stop the boat headed there right now. Or at least keep Hilary! from attaching a motor and pushing the throttle.

Posted by: RM at September 29, 2016 05:02 PM (U3LtS)

464 About that treasury thing, Obama is just looting to show support for the movement and his peeps. Also he needed a new big screen TV.

Posted by: BLM at September 29, 2016 05:04 PM (cCxiu)

465 I don't disagree about Hillary. My concern is that the consequences of Trump could be worse, especially for people of my "class." If we're no longer unified on free trade as a good for all, then why does Ace judge me for prioritizing it over other issues.

I believe free trade benefits the working class because, even if your wages are stagnant, the amount of cool sh*t you can buy with those wages keeps going up. If I'm more concerned with economics than rights because I think we'll lose the rights anyway and I'd rather keep my cool tv while it happens, what's so wrong with that?

Posted by: FJ Min at September 29, 2016 05:05 PM (f1Xhc)

466 Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 04:40 PM (dciA+)

What would we win, exactly? An economy that collapses because of mercantilist trade policy discredited 200 years ago instead of an economy that collapses because of socialist spending policies discredited 30 years ago? And that's not to mention the colossal foreign policy failings of both of them -- do we "win" by being be nuked by North Korea instead of by Iran?

This country is doomed. Neither of those two candidates is the leader we needed to stop it. As the philosopher de la Rocha put it, "rally round your family with a pocket full of shells."

Posted by: Sayyid at September 29, 2016 05:06 PM (Wz+TY)

467 "She's not even very good at being a criminal. It's embarrassing."

Is she in jail or does she have the Department of Justice, the entire FBI and near half of Congress dancing on a pin head to her tune where in the end she won't even pass by a prison on the way to work.

The country that is built on laws is now a shit hole and will get one hell of a lot shittier with the queen ruling over us.

Posted by: Drider at September 29, 2016 05:07 PM (6Xbsz)

468 Posted by: MacGruber at September 29, 2016 04:59 PM (sgrzZ)

The great majority of voters (not necessarily population, but those who actually get out and vote)are those who live in the suburbs and exburbs. Dubya won in 2004 because he did well enough in the burbs and exburbs as well as rural America.

That's why the Dems are exploiting this stupid fat beauty queen thing - to win back the votes of suburban women who may be wavering.

I have seen more than a few Trump signs in blue collar burbs. OTOH, I have seen more than a few Hill signs in well-to-do burbs.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at September 29, 2016 05:08 PM (u0lmX)

469 I think we'll lose the rights anyway and I'd rather keep my cool tv while it happens, what's so wrong with that?

Posted by: FJ Min at September 29, 2016 05:05 PM (f1Xhc)

Lose the rights and eventually, you'll lose the cool TV too. Banana republics don't have much of a middle class.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at September 29, 2016 05:10 PM (u0lmX)

470 Hey with all of this backwards doom and gloom. Here is a fantastic woman and her wanting to pull up her boot straps and get moving.

And then 2 , who could very easily be #NeverTrumpers trying to tear her down. She has none of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kup0IPoatDc

Great video.

Posted by: Drider at September 29, 2016 05:18 PM (6Xbsz)

471 I recall when part of the affect of being conservative was resignation to soberly choosing the better between or among regrettable alternatives because that's what adults did. They didn't compare the available alternatives to a best case alternative that wasn't on offer and refuse to choose, thus having the choice made for them - they made the choice and dealt with the regrettable effects. We had to side with Stalin to defeat Hitler, even though in so doing we empowered Stalin and had to wage a decades long Cold War.

Now, a load of these people - once they're given an actual, binary choice where this mettle is to be tested - are pretending not to make a choice, and that not making a choice isn't a choice. They're scum who think they'll actually be the ones doing the future purging.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at September 29, 2016 05:19 PM (WzlF7)

472 SAVE AMERICA
VOTE TRUMP

A VOTE FOR HILLARY OR A FAILURE TO VOTE FOR TRUMP IS A VOTE FOR OBAMA''S THIRD TERM

THIS IS NOT HARD FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Myshiba at September 29, 2016 05:22 PM (cfHE9)

473

Also note that the Court, whenever it likes, can read into an act's
preamble -- something something "for the purpose of making health care
available to all" something something -- an explicit (they will claim) authorization to use whatever means are necessary to keep the the law "working the way it was intended to."
--
This is wholly correct. At this point, Congress might as well produce 1 page bills that are essentially enabling acts:
"The agency shall have the authority to promulgate regulations that ensure all Americans have adequate healthcare."
Most law is being made by the agencies anyway. And when Congress writes a complex statute that doesn't work, the courts don't just let it fail (or force Congress to fix it). The court "fixes" it by justifying post hoc whatever unconstitutional measures the agency has taken to keep the rotten ship afloat.

Posted by: Revenant at September 29, 2016 05:29 PM (3DSAh)

474 The GOPe fights the left the way the NRA fights gun control -- it pretends to. Funds don't raise themselves, you know.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at September 29, 2016 05:44 PM (Ft3+l)

475 Ace, you are totally right.

Posted by: vivi at September 29, 2016 05:49 PM (11H2y)

476 OT...but thinking about the Hoboken train that went, full speed, into the station, without stopping....killing one person and injuring 100...

...why haven't they released the name of the engineer of the train? They know who he is, and he's 'cooperating."

Posted by: vivi at September 29, 2016 05:53 PM (11H2y)

477 RE: "so what percentage of nevertrumpers voted for romney? how do you square the circle of voting for romney but not trump?"

I didn't vote for Romney. I didn't vote for McCain. I sure as heck won't be voting for somebody even more liberal.

RE: " Yes, it HAS gotten worse."

Sure Curmudgeon -- and our culture has gotten worse too. Maybe the Republicans will nominate a candidate that conservatives can vote for then. But since it's more important to me to have an actual conservative opposition party -- having, you know, watched the last almost eight years of NOT HAVING ONE OF THOSE -- than simply Not Electing The Latest Awful Democrat, then I'll be sticking with just what I said from the very beginning. I don't vote for liberals. I don't enable crack addicts by giving them more money.

[PS: I don't think the 70s were very good either -- I'd stack up the 70s against the 00s for sheer awfulness any day, and I believe we didn't have the Supreme Court then either.]

Posted by: Igor at September 29, 2016 05:56 PM (FfQXL)

478 That's what made me ANTI-Trump and pushing very hard for Cruz, away from
Trump, who I knew would cause the Comfortable Class to defect.

However, what's done is done. The court is still the prize. We either have to win, or we can fucking just give up now.
-----
Yep, I was always a Cruz guy. He would've been a great President (he would also be a great Supreme Court judge).

I was for Trump after I had no other choice.

Posted by: Biergood at September 29, 2016 06:11 PM (v8Lx/)

479 I will say this only once:

1) Anyone who voted and/or advocated for Romney, Bush (either Bush), McCain or Dole (or votes for Johnson on 'principles') has no business objecting to voting for Trump on moral grounds.

2) I don't vote for Trump because I think he's a good person, I vote for him because of who denounces Trump. Trump's enemies make Trump look good by comparison.

/rant

Posted by: shadowofashade at September 29, 2016 06:50 PM (3Vo2B)

480 We've always been at war with Eastasia

Posted by: torabora at September 29, 2016 07:05 PM (O2Ekv)

481 #474 that's exactly right. After the NRA supported Reid I was done with them too. Don't piss on my shoes and tell me its raining.

Posted by: torabora at September 29, 2016 07:07 PM (O2Ekv)

482 Ridin that train
High on jihad
Crazy Mo don't slow down

Crazy Mo don't slow down

Posted by: Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad at September 29, 2016 07:13 PM (O2Ekv)

483 If Hillary wins, National Review won't be able to churn out on-line click bait soon enough and the fat, satisfied BA-holders will be dirt poor in four years. It almost would be worth it.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at September 29, 2016 08:31 PM (aYSH1)

484 Ace, Trump is a lifelong Democrat. He has every intention of being MORE liberal than Hillary ever will.

Posted by: MrX at September 29, 2016 08:37 PM (QpMYC)

485 >>>I believe free trade benefits the working class because, even if your wages are stagnant, the amount of cool sh*t you can buy with those wages keeps going up. If I'm more concerned with economics than rights because I think we'll lose the rights anyway and I'd rather keep my cool tv while it happens, what's so wrong with that?

If your wages stagnate, then you're not getting any more cool shit because the wages of people whose labor cannot be multiplied or outsourced has gone up; that's why college and medicine cost so much. They cost so much relative to other wages, because you can't outsource them.

The basket of goods people can buy remains the same -- just a greater percentage goes towards services provided by people providing non-outsourceable jobs.

And if you don't have a job at all -- which millions and milions of people don't -- how the FUCK do low consumer good prices help you?

I think, if I were one of the unemployed ex-furniture makers of North Carolina, i wouldn't be that psyched that my zero dollars of income could theoretically buy more foreign-made furniture, the moment they become a number of dollars greater than zero.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 08:38 PM (dciA+)

486 Jay Cost, who writes for The Weekly Substandard, tweeted recently about how the jobs just aren't going to be coming back to the rust belt, and those folks were just going to have to accept reality and go through some gov't-subsidized retraining. Then he added a personal anecdote - he has family in the midwest, and they are all hedge fund managers.

You see, in Jay Cost's world, every 45-year-old out-of-work assembly line worker with a 95-IQ can be "retrained" and quickly attain a six-figure income in the financial services industry.

These people live in a fairy world.

Posted by: WARPIG at September 29, 2016 09:22 PM (KL5Ns)

487 Indifference to death by arsenic or cyanide is not a preference for arsenic.

Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at September 29, 2016 09:28 PM (2eI3A)

488 Oh, so it's #NeverTrumpers fault you nominated a guy with a 70% disapproval rating. The only people you can blame for Donald Trump being the worst GOP candidate ever is the 35% of Republicans who voted for him, knowing that he was literally the only candidate that would lose to Hillary.

Posted by: rexbatt at September 29, 2016 09:32 PM (LXSFC)

489 The main premise is dead on. It springs from the same poisoned well that causes the Washington Generals...I mean the GOPe...to roll over in advance on electoral fraud: Our phoney-baloney jobs uber alles.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at September 29, 2016 09:33 PM (Ft3+l)

490 You will have a point when electing a republican will make a difference.

Posted by: Joel Pawloski at September 29, 2016 09:33 PM (ffRtB)

491 Ka-BOOM. Outstanding, my man.

Posted by: Beverly at September 29, 2016 10:03 PM (YuBEx)

492 This is what I wanted to say but didn't know how. Thank you for the excellent piece.

Posted by: Sean at September 29, 2016 10:18 PM (EyI8L)

493 I'm not going to say Never Trump. I wouldn't even say Never Hitler, because hey, maybe the guy Hitler's running against is worse than Hitler. You never know.

Trump is not Hitler, but neither is Hillary. She's sloppy, incompetent, not that bright, and a terrible politician -- any Republican could have beaten her this year, had any actual Republican been nominated.

Trump is a shameless opportunist who will end up governing nearly as leftwing as Hillary but with even fewer scruples.

Either candidate is going to be a disaster for the country. The only question is who will be blamed.

Posted by: TallDave at September 29, 2016 10:37 PM (74ZYB)

494 Glenn Beck is headed for the trash heap. The National Review has made itself a joke. Bill Kristol's "Weakly" Stardard is propped up by rich donors who like the status quo. People can agree that Donald Trump isn't the best candidate, but let's be clear, he won't govern as a liberal. He's a pragmatist. Not an ideologue. This actually works well for conservatives. Hillary is a sure-fire liberal who wants to out-left her predecessor. Trump would govern several area codes to the right of Clinton. No immigration amnesty. And best of all, no crack-pot anti-constitution judges. For it'a the courts who now make laws. The Republican congress has abdicated that responsibility. See the impending internet give-away. Thanks, Paul Ryan.

Posted by: Czervik at September 29, 2016 10:45 PM (omF/E)

495 I know, right? This is like the unhinged left after
2004 promising that Bush would usher in the newest fascist state using
the Patriot Act and the War on Terror as a pretense to turn America into
the Fourth Reich.

Furthermore quite a few Trumpists give Trump
the benefit of the doubt and otherwise cast him in the most favorable
light possible.

Is it possible at all to discuss Trump and
Hillary on a somewhat equal footing? Both of them would be bad for the
Republic in different ways, but neither one of them is going to usher in
the Next American Gulag.

Posted by: chemjeff at September 29, 2016 04:27 PM (1Ip2/)
Yup. I had a good excuse for thinking at the time that Bill Clinton would refuse to leave office after his second term was up, and that excuse is that I was an idiot teenager who had never heard of confirmation bias, and who didn't realize the hyperbole I heard and read was the eternal ambiance of political discourse. Most of the people on this blog are probably older than I am, not sure why this sensationalist rhetoric isn't starting to feel a bit stale to them as well.
As a youngin', I was expecting a full-on socialist revolution from the Obama administration. Instead, we just got a new, shitty healthcare bureaucracy that for sure sucks but has mostly just been an irritant to most citizens, the gay folks are marrying in more states than they were before, a few tea party groups who were probably just preying off of concerned middle aged and elderly white people anyway got unfairly prioritized for IRS audits (which is obviously corrupt, but anyone interested in 20th century American history could tell you they're getting off easy as far as corrupt actions by federal agencies are concerned), and college kids are being crybaby dickheads but they were probably crybaby dickheads as kids too and you can't blame Obama for that.On the other hand, I did hear that Hillary wants to fluoridate America's drinking water and put even more secret commies on the National Review editorial board than the ones Ace already knows about, so maybe I'll have to give Trump a second look.

Posted by: reform highlander at September 29, 2016 10:53 PM (xf3KI)

496 All right then. I like that.

Posted by: csmats at September 29, 2016 10:57 PM (yKiwk)

497 Fuck you Ace.

Posted by: Nevah at September 29, 2016 11:28 PM (sVsOz)

498 so our republic is being destroyed, aided and abetted by the MSM and the republicans

we are doomed

Posted by: plum at September 29, 2016 11:54 PM (vzZKT)

499 Ace - Your argument is compelling if a person is #NeverTrump just to satisfy their own conscience. On the other hand, there is a reasonable argument that Trump, while better in the short term, may well lead to more harm in the long term.

There is really no reason to believe that Trump has the skills or discipline necessary for a successful presidency. Obama has left such a steaming mess of the world that a conflict with even Russia or China in the next 4 years is completely conceivable. Also, we are more than due for another recession. An economic downturn or war, coupled with an ignorant, boorish Trump in the oval office would give Progressives lock on power for 20 years or more afterwards. Given the generation of Jacobin progressives coming up behind Hillary, this could be a disaster.

Also, Trump's nomination is a testament to the failure of previously mainstream Republican politicians to connect with their voters. Trump's message was so compelling that he won despite being a sleaze and a poor to downright awful politician. The next candidates to take up Trump's mantle are likely to be significantly better politicians who are better equipped to win and to governight effectively.

Posted by: Cman at September 30, 2016 12:03 AM (mCCBn)

500 If your wages stagnate, then you're not getting any more cool shit because the wages of people whose labor cannot be multiplied or outsourced has gone up; that's why college and medicine cost so much. They cost so much relative to other wages, because you can't outsource them.

The basket of goods people can buy remains the same -- just a greater percentage goes towards services provided by people providing non-outsourceable jobs.

And if you don't have a job at all -- which millions and milions of people don't -- how the FUCK do low consumer good prices help you?

I think, if I were one of the unemployed ex-furniture makers of North Carolina, i wouldn't be that psyched that my zero dollars of income could theoretically buy more foreign-made furniture, the moment they become a number of dollars greater than zero.

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2016 08:38 PM (dciA+)

I think this is a good criticism of an overly-ideological/idealized conception of the power of free markets, but I think it's an argument for targeted reforms to address market failures rather than for the economic protectionism that Trump is proposing, which has a very inferior track record in practice than that of more free market-oriented economies. Protectionism has the same economic problems of socialism: massive regulation of the economy by political actors who aren't directly (if at all) responsive to economic feedback and attempted centralization of decision-making for decisions where all the relevant information to decision-making is impossibly complex on the macro level and exists in widely distributed and dispersed state.

The argument in the 80s was that Japan's protectionist practices were making them so competitive that they were going to overtake our economy, but of course Japan instead stagnated in the 90s and never recovered, because protectionist economies atrophy. It also doesn't remotely address the problem that is actually displacing American low-skilled workers: automation. And blocking factories from moving to China or India won't block them from moving to Texas or Utah, but that creates the same problem of the unemployed worker. It also disincentivizes foreign countries from building and keeping factories here, which is something many current workers benefit from. And this is an old argument, but I think most protectionists would agree that obviously our country would not have been served terribly well by preserving the jobs of coopers, Pony Express riders, whalers, milkmen, or chimney sweeps.

Given the right population and circumstances, pretty much any economic system can be made to work. The early Israeli kibbutzes made communism work, and there's sects of Amish, Mormons, and various other groups who make small scale cooperative labor/ownership systems work quite well. Steve Sailer once pointed out that National Review has been predicting Sweden's imminent collapse since the 60s, but they've managed to make something like socialism work in effect by heavily taxing money earned in a low-regulation free market economy to buy the spoils of socialism as a luxury good (I'm sure the oil they're sitting on helps a lot with that too). But at the nation-state scale, the only long-term functional system has been a relatively free market system (which the European welfare state still falls under).There's a famous quote by an economist (not Friedman, though he quotes this) to the effect that trade barriers are what you do to countries you are trying to defeat militarily. We don't have to stop doing what works to address anecdotal problems in its wake. The problem of what to do with workers displaced by free market activity like outsourcing is one that can be resolved within the market system, and should not be used as a justification for a dysfunctional alternative. Especially when that proposed alternative is not even addressing the real causes of displacement, like automation of low-skill work and probably cultural factors (we know from observing changes in the black community in this country during the cultural revolution that a culture shift can lead to unemployment increasing dramatically, which I suspect is a very relevant comparison for unemployment among millennial males).
One of the most infuriating things about the left isn't that their critiques of the capitalist market are wrong, it's their implication that these problems require a different economic system to fix when they are perfectly fixable within the traditional system (we didn't need to abandon capitalism or industrialization to get rid of smog in cities, for one example). Seeing the right attempting the same tactic is shameful. Sure, it's silly to tell a worker who lost his job "well, statistically speaking, this is a good thing", but anecdotal bad things aren't symptoms of a bad system, they're a symptom of any system that has to play out in the real world. Just as the socialist judges socialism by its intent and capitalism by its reality, you here judge protectionism by its intent and free markets by their reality. Free trade absolutely should be the cause of the right (NAFTA > Smoot-Hawley), and that's not mutually exclusive from providing solutions to those struggling within that system.

Posted by: reform highlander at September 30, 2016 12:41 AM (xf3KI)

501 The never Trumpers told you all before the first caucus and primary that we would never vote for Trump. We told you that that alone (among other things) made him unelectable. Rubio laid it out in one of the debates "If Trump is the nominee, Hillary will be President." And now you have the gall to blame a Hillary Presidency on us?? Really??? You voted her when you voted for Trump. You Trump supporters that got him nominated own the Clinton Presidency.

Posted by: Norm at September 30, 2016 01:08 AM (7r86l)

502 So Norm can't help himself voting for Hillary, all of those trump voters are making him do it. What a coward.

Posted by: Dude1394 at September 30, 2016 01:32 AM (56GHY)

503 tubal,

Here are my three:

1-Globalism
2-The Decline and Fall of the American Empire
3-The possibility of someone who probably reads about Nero and Caligula with great admiration and envy.

Yet many are sounding like the opposition to Hitler. "He can't win. If he does win, everybody will unite against him. I don't like any of the opposition to Hitler; they are (whatever)." Hillary is ridiculously darker than her husband, and now we have dozens or more around them who are looking at life in prison if things go against them.

We could be looking at some major and serious changes in the world in the next five to ten years. The end of the dollar standard being an obvious one. A return to blocs and trade blocs being another.

At the risk of sounding like Trump, "You've had 30 years. Where were your principles then?"

Posted by: Lance at September 30, 2016 05:30 AM (TZXEK)

504 Reform Highlander -- thank you for your sensible comments about not instituting economic protectionism -- as Trump wishes -- which always leads to more State controlled economies!

One line of yours that I disagree with is this one [though I think I know where you're headed]: "The problem of what to do with workers displaced by free market activity
like outsourcing is one that can be resolved within the market system,
and should not be used as a justification for a dysfunctional
alternative."

My problem -- my crying problem with the rhetoric surrounding lost jobs and lost employment [right now our country is horrifically under-employed] -- is that much of the job losses are *NOT* due to "free market activity" at all! Quite the opposite. They are due to the already heavy hand of the state driving up the cost of employment. Just think -- we've already had a MASSIVE increase in the cost of employment just through Obamacare, which recall that companies are supposed to pay for with their employees. But on top of that are grotesque piles of regulations, and whole industries are now essentially "government industries" -- among them, again, healthcare. I've got a friend who lives in Shanghai -- he's lived there for more than a decade -- and he's done business in both China and the US. Guess which country is far easier to do business in? That's right -- CHINA.

I've got a relative who occasionally manages a cotton gin -- most of which are going out of business in this country because they are utterly CONSUMED by regulatory agencies -- the EPA and OSHA and the USDA and another 5-6 [she reeled them all off] sweep in like vultures periodically and "inspect" gins based on masses and masses of regulations that nobody can possibly remembers . . . UNLESS, of course, you're a large corporation that has lawyers on staff and regulatory compliance officers on staff who are paid to "manage" regulation adherence in a company.

To use a phrase from a British campaign: "we can't go on like this."

There's a reason why companies are throwing up their hands and packing up with their jobs and moving to other countries. And it's not "market forces" [other than that, yes, our country is so state-controlled and has so artificially raised the cost of employment that it's a competition from other countries].

The solution is not the Trump Central Planning solution -- make everybody stay in the US. The solution is to take a scythe to the costs of employment in *this* country. The drive towards automation is, in part, driven by the need to eliminate the high cost of labor.

We can't go on like this.

Trump doubles down on the wrong problem, and offers the wrong solutions [my word, he wants to raise the minimum wage so that we can, you know, knock MORE LOWER RUNGS out of the employment ladder for those who are struggling with being employable.

It is just sickening to see so-called "conservatives" pronounce that other conservatives are ruining their chances just because we won't vote for their big government, State-controlled guy YET AGAIN four years later, and eight years later and 12 years later.

Who do they think they are? HOW DARE THEY say that we all just need to go ahead and vote for Trotsky, now that they've nominated him, so that we can defeat Lenin.

Posted by: Igor at September 30, 2016 07:44 AM (FfQXL)

505 RE: "So Norm can't help himself voting for Hillary, all of those trump voters are making him do it."

Heh heh. I had a client tell me two nights ago at a meeting that my not voting for Hillary was a vote for Trump.

Since I was used to the incoherent and desperate on the *other* side telling me the same thing I promptly said "oh no, I'm special -- you see my not voting for Trump is a vote for Hillary, so I get two votes by not voting at all."

My client is a successful small business owner, a staunch Republican -- and she's voting for Hillary. She has never had a conversation with a Trumpie and finds anybody voting for Trump to be unbelievable and not really worth having a conversation with. She has no idea -- NONE -- why anybody would consider voting for him. I explained some reasons adn advised her to talk with a few of her clients, since no doubt many of them would be voting for Trump.

She and I agree on one thing. The Republican Party will be destroyed by this. She doesn't think it will recover.

That wouldn't be a bad thing if, you know, we had an actual conservative opposition party all ready and waiting in the wings. But instead, it will be The Long 30-Year Haul to build one, while the Dems keep winning the Presidency. Oh how lovely the next 30 years will be!

Good times.

Posted by: Igor at September 30, 2016 08:06 AM (FfQXL)

506 "But these NeverTrump Republicans get to tell their liberal friends they didn't vote for Trump! "

Stupidest thing I've read today but if it makes voting for Cheeto Jesus who blew dog in the debate easier then good for you.

Posted by: LTCHAM at September 30, 2016 09:19 AM (7h4Fr)

507 Yes, a very long and detailed rant. But then, one thing us principled Never Trumpers aren't doing is trying to giving nuclear weapons to someone who acts like a toddler...darn us, that would be those boring, tiresome principles kicking in!

Posted by: Joseph Brenner at September 30, 2016 02:15 PM (TISwZ)

508 You make too many tangential assumptions with your BS. Contrary to your overly biased opinion, liberals are not light weights. Issues such as gender equality, gay marriage and other so called "fluff" deal with the number one resource in this country which is its people!
Conservatives think they deal with the hard issues, but in fact they make up wild theories to justify their hate and racism. This column is a perfect example of leading through fear.

Posted by: Donna at September 30, 2016 02:53 PM (8dU17)

509 All good points, Ace. The problem is that your boy Trump is BLOWING IT! Did you catch his blathering performance during the debate? Have you gotten wind of his juvenile pissing contest with some beauty contest bimbo today? Do you realize that while he's playing these pointless, narcissistic games, Hillary is consolidating her lead on the way to the White House?

When she gets there, it will not be the NeverTrump crowd that has some very tough questions to answer. No, it will be those supporting the nomination of a defective person who lost an election that could have and should have been won, if the nominee had been a normal human being.

Not to worry, man. I still intend to vote for Trump because the alternative is a catastrophe for the reasons you outline. But if (when?) he loses, I'm gonna be pretty pissed at you and the rest who foisted this idiot on us and turned the country over to Hillary in the process.

Posted by: Gerard at September 30, 2016 03:03 PM (RGEle)

510 The New York Times is celebrating the 10% increase in the voting pool caused by Hillary's proposed amnesty/refugee policy. They expect new immigrants to vote Democratic, and are rarely disappointed. https://goo.gl/E0jcMR

Posted by: Arnold Williams at September 30, 2016 03:36 PM (fd7Qr)

511 Nailed it. Those who observe this phenomena and puzzle, ignorance or intent, should consider that the egop and media know exactly what they are doing...for them it is fully intentionally deceptive. The masses who do not have the time or energy to engage...ignorance.

Posted by: lea at September 30, 2016 03:51 PM (vPI5V)

512 The #nevertrumpers are right and wrong.

First, where they are wrong are in the swing states. Though, the TRUTH is it isn't THEIR fault. It is the fault of the State legislatures playing this binary choice by going winner-take-all.
FACT : this loathsome choice between two vile people PROVES that the parties can not be trusted with winner-take-all. That has to go.

BUT ... that is a different discussion. The choice in front of us made by the utterly incompetent Rence Prebius and the corrupt DNC under Wasserman-Schultz forces people who are #nevertrump to make that decision. And the consequences are stark.
Simply put it is easier to elect trump and then impeach him than to trust the Democrats to do the same to Hillary.

Where they are RIGHT is in the deeper blue states but they do NOT support Clinton. They support Johnson.
What am I talking about?

Washington State - 12 Electoral votes.
C - 44 T - 38 J - 7 S - 5

If every Republican in Washington State accepted Trump is not going to win Washington ( and if he is, he has already won anyways ) and instead of wasting their vote --- they vote for Johnson. You would have Johnson BEATING Clinton and DENYING her those 12 votes. Illinois would be the same with 9 votes.
She needs .... NEEDS those 21 votes.
Otherwise --
The House is not going to pick her. They also probably won't pick Trump, but if he can't win without states like Washington and Illinois, he doesn't deserve it.
What it does is prevent Clinton from getting 270.

THAT is where the #nevertrumpers need to go. Figure out how to STOP Hillary ( ABC - Anybody But Clinton ). And as far as Trump goes, neither help nor harm him in the swing states.

Posted by: Chromehawk at September 30, 2016 03:54 PM (whC7F)

513 Maybe you guys should have thought of these things before forcing the Great Pumpkin on us. This debacle is entirely your fault.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow at September 30, 2016 04:01 PM (xcd7s)

514 Below is my response to Jonah Goldberg's news letter today.

Jonah,

Trump is a shit sandwich but Hillary is nuclear shit storm. For all your kvetching over Trump and him not being conservative and this is not binary election, I have to ask what about real world policy? Your point about Nixon is perfect so we go into a multiverse world where McGovern wins and now we have socialism on steroids and we cave to communism which strengthens Russia and makes it impossible to end the cold war under Reagan. Was the world a better place or worse place for Nixon winning? Was American more conservative or less conservative with Nixon winning. Jump to 2000 Bush losses because McGovern not Nixon appoints justices and there is no Rehnquist to cast the deciding 5th vote and Al Gore is in the White House when 9-11 happens. Do we even invade Afghanistan or do we treat it as a criminal investigation and send in New York CSI. Are terrorist on the run or embolden has they have been in the last 8 years under Obama? 2008 John McCain wins we do not have Deathcare and my health premiums do not keep doubling and we do not add a gigantic new entitlement program that unless stopped will destroy private health care in the US. 2012 Romney wins which means no bend over so I can slide it in Iran deal. A deal which unless undone will result in a arms race in the Middle East and a preemptive strike from Israel. You and others keep pounding the table about Trump destroying the conservative movement but history tells us no matter how non-conservative Republicans get in, they are 1000 percent better than any Democrat for everyone including Democrat voters. The real world policy implications of Hillary presidency are the continued death crawl of "soft totalitarianism statism" Trump may ruin the conservative movement but will he appoint Justice Kennedy, will he implement common core, will he implement medicare part D, will he call for amnesty? It is time for you and Erickson to debate myself and others who would wholly prefer Rubio or Cruz to Trump, but understand that no Trump means the continued baton death march toward toto statism. W, McCain, and Romney were no pantheons to the conservative movement, but they where all preferable to their Democratic counter part. There has been only two Democrats in modern times that have straddle the middle, when they where not straddling a young lady, and that was Kennedy and Clinton. Starting with Obama you will see the power of the dark side, by the way Yoda was wrong the dark side is more powerful than the good because the only way the Emperor was defeated was was when Vader turned back from bad to good and surprised the Emperor. Clinton is the Emperor and there is no Darth Vader to stop Her, it will be the end of the Republic as we know it and the ending of the freedom we all cherish

Posted by: mark wilson at September 30, 2016 04:42 PM (nFEwp)

515 Without a more inclusive platform the GOP will cease to be a contender in Presidential elections. The nomination of Donald Trump validated this for me and caused me to defect to the Democratic Party in Protest. I'm for limited government so I'd be a registered Libertarian if Pennsylvania had open primaries. I hope that the next Republican nominee will seek to build alliances and embrace anyone who feels that the government has become a behemoth. Trump refuses to cut entitlements which will bankrupt our country much like his pathetic casino management. He's a lifetime liberal who realized that as a billionaire he had no choice but to "turn" Republican. How you could trust such a narcissistic charlatan to keep his word in regards to whom he might appoint as a Supreme Court Justice ignores the deceit and exploitation that is at the core of his existence. As long as there's 40 Republican Senators who are unified and will filibuster with gusto our Republic will be saved from any liberal agenda Ms. Clinton may try to foist on us. My hope is that the outrage at her incompetence in 2020 will give a re-energized inclusive Republican Party, hopefully with Senator Rubio as it's nominee unique momentum to capture the White House and repudiate the toxic, racist, sexist, idiotic, lover of big government, immoral, deceitful, narcissistic, social liberal known as Donald Trump.

Posted by: #NeverTrump at September 30, 2016 04:56 PM (K34/w)

516 Ace,
Good job. You said what needs to be said.
It will be read by conservatives, but not by rank-and-file Lefties, nor elite Lefties.
It is very sad that the best form of government the world has ever seen, is in danger of being completely transformed by the Left. Up is down. Good is bad.
Keep up your good work, your Godly work.
Thank you.

Posted by: Tom Johnson, conservative at September 30, 2016 06:24 PM (xHdlj)

517 Apparently, we need to just GET IN LINE.

Because ACE says so. Because the GOP owns your vote.

It doesn't matter who the GOP puts up as a candidate. It could be one of the most idiotic, unconservative pigs in the history of the country.

Doesn't matter.

If he's wearing an elephant pin,

YOU NEED TO GET IN LINE.

Because..."ACE".

Posted by: Hey Ace Owns Your Vote at September 30, 2016 07:03 PM (LAbBz)

518 There is simply nothing principled or conservative about chattering class attention whores who are enabling Hillary Criminal by suppressing conservative support for the only candidate who can prevent her taking the White House.

I know for a fact National Review writers continue to block and ban supporters of the GOP nominee. How pathetic is that?

Posted by: Trevor at September 30, 2016 08:09 PM (slwP2)

519 Rockefeller, Scranton, and Romney. National Review and Weekly Standard should understand that Republicans have long memories and little sympathy for treachery.

I see a boycott of those publications and the God awful writers at Real Clear Politics. Becky, Alex, and Caitlin.

Sad to see conservative publications and cable shows go down but there is selection of the fittest. Hannity beat Kelly. And we all know where that faux journalist Kelly is heading.
Think MSNBC. Just happened to have video at GOP debate to challenge Trump. Ha ha clown.

Posted by: Michael Hanrahan at September 30, 2016 08:50 PM (5OSXW)

520 I was going to post a link to this great piece as a comment at NRO only to discover they no longer accept comments. Obviously, they can't stand the heat in their kitchen.

Posted by: John at September 30, 2016 09:47 PM (QGpFM)

521 Sadly, y'all just don't get it. We are #NeverTrump because Trump is NOT preferable to Hillary. 1. SCOTUS - there is no way anyone should trust a lifelong liberal democrat to make conservative SCOTUS picks. There will simply be no difference between the two on SCOTUS. He craves adulation, and if he were to win, the adulation would be from the press, which will sway him to select liberals. 2. Obamacare will be patched up? Trump advocates SINGLE PAYER healthcare, far to Hillary's left, in fact. So he'll get rid of Obamacare and implement HillaryCare. Another liberal democrat position. 3. "Dear Colleague letters" - if you don't think Trump would jump at the chance to punish his enemies at the first chance, you're simply not watching. Again, no difference between the two. Now, some other policy differences - Trade - Trump's trade policies would be disastrous and plunge us into recession and trade wars. Hers are better. Foreign Policy - Trump would alienate our friends and turn every Islamic nation against us, ruining decades-old alliances. Not a single foreign nation can trust him. Dude's batshit crazy. Nukes - We simply do not trust someone who goes bananas on twitter with nuclear warheads. And I could go on and on. As it were, i won't vote for Hillary either, but put a gun to my head and say vote for one or the other and I'd have to vote for Hillary. You branch trumpidians nominated the only candidate capable of losing, and losing decisively, to "Crooked Hillary" - nice going GOP. #NeverTrump

Posted by: eddiethegeek at September 30, 2016 10:10 PM (KaJ8f)

522 I pride myself that I vote on policy and principles, not on personalities, but there are limits. I don't see how anyone can vote for a man who talks about wanting to date his own daughter. That's disgusting.

Posted by: Michael Dorsey at September 30, 2016 11:29 PM (ZfFCO)

523 Just going to take a wild guess based on your syntax that your upbringing was not that far off from the provincials you're poking fun at. Go ahead and embrace the nihilism and hate, the redefinition of America as a wacky dystopia. In a decade there's no debate to be had here. Sadly I don't think this ends when Trump loses. #nevertrump

Posted by: Kale at October 01, 2016 03:19 AM (LiuR3)

524 Ace, once again you absolutely NAILED it! I think the beauty of this beauty contest is how it has really forced pundits--be they ex-politicians or journalists--to expose their true colors. I'm amused by some of the comments I've seen--like from Michael Dorsey--feigning outrage over The Donald's utterances. Dude, Trump never said he wanted to date his own daughter--he is obviously just very proud of her, both outside and in. I mean seriously, don't you think that Jared should be more outraged than you if that were really true? You and your ilk need to stop the bullshit self-righteous indignation and focus on The Crooked One. That is where the true danger lies.

Posted by: Bret at October 01, 2016 09:46 AM (Mr+zR)

525 Show Me on the doll where the NeverTrumper touched You.

Posted by: Brian at October 01, 2016 07:12 PM (gzKuW)

526 "Preferred candidate Hillary Clinton"?

Seriously? Just because I won't vote for your choice of asshat?

I will proudly vote my conscience, and it won't be for EITHER Trump or Clinton.

You've gone full potato batshit, Ace. Fuck off!

Posted by: Clete Orris at October 02, 2016 02:27 AM (zcNSm)

527 Isn't George will dead? Haven't seen him since he got spanked by WFB. Consider another conundrum: Herr Comey's second in command received close to $1 million dollars for election from the Clinton Family. Clintons make Don Corleone look like a choir boy. RTHBIF Clintons.

Posted by: Buck at October 25, 2016 02:45 PM (heni9)

528 I stopped reading when I saw you presume #NeverTrump must mean "pro-Hillary". That's pathetic.

Posted by: Brian at October 26, 2016 11:31 PM (gzKuW)

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