Sunday Morning Book Thread 08-28-2016: Stepping On Your Own [OregonMuse]

Suzzallo Library Graduate Reading Room, University of Washington.jpg

University of Washington's Suzzallo Library Graduate Reading Room

(Look at that pic. Go on, click on it. It doesn't seem likely to me that that building started out as a library, much less a "graduate reading room". I wonder if UW acquired a church building and re-purposed it. That makes me sad. But, library. So that's not so bad. On the other hand, it could've been worse. It could've been re-purposed as a mosque. Update: It has always been a library. Thanks to the many morons for the correction.)

Good morning to all of you morons and moronettes and bartenders everywhere and all the ships at sea. Welcome to AoSHQ's stately, prestigious, internationally acclaimed and high-class Sunday Morning Book Thread, where men are men, all the 'ettes are gorgeous, safe spaces are underneath your house and are used as protection against actual dangers, like tornados, and snowflakes soon dissolve. And unlike other AoSHQ comment threads, the Sunday Morning Book Thread is so hoity-toity, pants are required. Even if it's these.

“Children are made readers on the laps of their parents,”
--Emilie Buchwald.

Hugos and Puppies and CHORFs, Oh My!

So this year's Hugo Awards have come and gone, and apparently it was kind of an "Empire Strikes Back" event. All the SJWs are in the throes of ecstasy because few, if any, of the Sad Puppies candidates won. Also, the 'Best Novel' category was won by The Fifth Season, written by N.K. Jemison, who is, from what I hear, the SJW's SJW.

Yay, diversity! Boo, evil white men!

So all the progressives are jumping with joy and spraying each other with champagne over their great victory over the Sad Puppies, but they don't understand they've already lost, and in fact, they lost several years ago.

Larry Correia did not start the Sad Puppies merely to provide an alternate slate of choices for white guys. His purpose, as he has explained over and over and over again, was to prove a point. He had publicly stated that (a) science-fiction publishing has for years been dominated by a small, inbred SJW clique that act as gatekeepers that keep out conservative-leaning authors and (b) this same inbred clique runs the Hugo awards. And then all the SJWs went bananas trying to keep the SP choices off the ballot, and then when they couldn't do that, they told all of their friends not to vote for them, or to "No Award" the entire category. Apparently, they didn't realize that these concerted efforts only served to prove Correia's point that the Hugos were run by and for an small, inbred clique of progressive CHORFs^*

And now that Correia's supposition has been amply demonstrated, anything else is just icing on the cake. The existence of the "Rabid Puppies" slate confuses things a bit, but Correia's original point still stands. In fact, Correia was not part of the Sad Puppies this year, and I rather think his direct involvement with it is pretty much a thing of the past. This year was another opportunity for the inbred SJWs to beclown themselves yet again. Which they did superbly, with all their hollering about "white male privilege". They failed to pay attention to the fact that this year the Sad Puppies were managed by women authors: Kate Paulk, Sarah Hoyt, and Amanda Green.

You couldn't do better than read Correia's take on the 2016 Hugos:

Funny. When I started Sad Puppies four years ago, the narrative was all about how the Hugos were a celebration of what was great, representing the best of all of fandom. I said nope, it is decided by cliques, ass kissing, and politics. They called me a liar. Fast forward to now, and at least they are open it is all politics. Hell, they’re celebrating it.

Correia has the inbred SJW clique so spooked, they're kicking their own butts.

--------------------------
^*Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatics.

Alt-Hugo

I've mentioned the Dragon Awards as an alternative to the Hugos before, but they come from DragonCon, which votermom reminds me

...is a huge mult-genre fan convention that has run every year in Atlanta, Georgia since 1987. They have gamers, bookworms, comic geeks, fans of all sorts and they bill themselves as "the largest multi-media popular convention focusing on science fiction and fantasy,gaming, comics, literature, art, music, and film in the universe!" I'm not sure what their exact attendance was last year, but I know it was more than 60,000!

The inbred SJWs are trying to turn the Hugos into a politically correct showcase of what they think you should read. The Dragons, on the other hand, are trying to be about what science fiction fans actually like to read. Voting closes at the end of this month so act soon. You will need an email address to register, then they send you a ballot.

I'm typing this on Wednesday afternoon, and I just took a pause to follow the link provided by votermom, and it took me all of 2 minutes to fill out a minimal form, send it in, and hit the confirm link in the e-mail. It's easy and, best of all, it's FREE.

According to a message displayed at the confirmation link, the next batch of Dragon ballots goes out on Monday, so if you get your requests in today, you'll make the deadline. Again, voting ends on August 31st, so there's not a lot of time left.

I remember reading a Greek myth where the hero (Theseus? Heracles?) had to fight a giant scorpion and he managed to defeat it by getting it to sting itself over and over again. This is kind of what Correia and Vox Day are doing to the inbred progressive clique that are running the Hugos. This year the CHORFs managed to "No Award" Jerry Pournelle. Seriously? Pournelle is a living legend, and they "No Award"-ed him?? In what universe does *that* make sense? The more they turn the Hugos into a PC beauty contest, the more fans will abandon them. The question is, will it be enough to kill the beast? I don't know. A good indicator will be what happens with the Dragon Awards. If, over succeeding years, more and more SJWs start showing up at DragonCon to cause trouble, that would be an indication that the Hugos are dead and the progressive parasites have left the dessicated corpse of the host and are looking for another healthy body upon which to feed.

Call For Submissions

I regularly prowl the internet, looking for awesome library and cool bookstore pics to feature on the book thread. Eventually, I'm going to run out, as there are only so many pics out there to chose from. And there isn't any National Strategic Library Pic Reserve I can tap into.

So this is where you come in: send me a pic of *your* library, and I can feature it on the book thread. I know that few, if any of us are going to have libraries like the ones I've been showing, but even a couple of shelves will do. Or, if you have a library in a nice building near to where you live, that qualifies. Pics of finely bound books will also be welcome.

Morons send in pics of their pets for the pet thread, and this would be similar. I think it would be fun.

Books By Morons

Moron commenter naturalfake has the third part of his 'Wearing The Cat' series, Wearing the Cat: Part Three: His Golden Time, continuing the adventures of Lt. Nick McGill, hedonist who

...is closer than ever to achieving his goal of adding excitement to his life through access to an excess of wine, women, and adventure

Best of all, with the incredibly wealthy Mr Sanbuichi as his new English Student, McGill now has access to the world of the rich, their money, and their fine, fine women. Not to mention the great food and high quality booze...And yet, with his enthusiastic and sensuous response to the fresh and surprising world opening around him, McGill may be missing the most important thing of all.

The quiet, sweet arrival of romance in his life.

The Kindle edition is on sale for 99 cents. And for those of you who've missed them, here are the first two novels in the series, Flaming Hoops and The Fox's Den.

Moron Recommendations

I find some of my best material poaching other threads. I find these wonderful one-offs like:

58 Sorry for the early OT
Just finished "When Breath Becomes Air"
Holy shit is that a kick in the face. An amazing and profound little book. Intensely moving.

Posted by: Max Power at August 19, 2016 06:12 PM (q177U)

When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi is a best-seller, which is why they're charging 13 bucks for it.

At the age of thirty-six, on the verge of completing a decade’s worth of training as a neurosurgeon, Paul Kalanithi was diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer. One day he was a doctor treating the dying, and the next he was a patient struggling to live. And just like that, the future he and his wife had imagined evaporated. When Breath Becomes Air chronicles Kalanithi’s transformation from a naïve medical student “possessed,” as he wrote, “by the question of what, given that all organisms die, makes a virtuous and meaningful life” into a neurosurgeon at Stanford working in the brain, the most critical place for human identity, and finally into a patient and new father confronting his own mortality.

Sadly, Mr. Kalanithi died in 2015 while working on this book.

___________

This one is a repeat from a couple of years ago, but given the current political climate, it's worth mentioning again. Moronette lurker Anwyn recommends Bacon and Egg Man by Ken Wharton, a darkly comic novel that takes place in a United States where "the Northeast has split off from the rest of the United States. The new Federation is ruled by the electoral descendants of King Mike [Bloomberg?], a man who made it his mission to form a country based on good, clean living."

The spirit of Prohibition is never really absent from American culture. It just shifted around a bit to prohibit different things. From Anwyn's review, the main character, journalist Wes Montgomery, lives

...in the northeast corner of what used to be the United States. New York and its surrounding blue-state cohorts have seceded, and in the resulting Federation, original Bloomberg’s original soda ban has led to the illegality of fat and sugar and basically everything that tastes good. The people eat tofu and vegetables and visit the doctor by mandate to have their body fat monitored. Strangely, this has not stopped people from dying of heart attacks or cancer, but nobody seems to grasp the implications of that. Wes lives the life of an average guy who works a job, makes a living at it, and keeps to himself. But he’s a drug dealer and a user—not only does he get bacon, eggs, real milk and butter, ribeyes, sausage, and yes, soda for his clients, he eats them himself, cooking them up in a black cast-iron skillet (whose appearance, all by itself, won my heart in the first chapter).

And soon he gets caught.

The Kindle edition is, not bad, $7.99.

___________

What I'm Reading

I've started the historical novel John the Pupil by David Flusfeder that I picked up earlier this week for $1.99, and on Friday as I am typing this, that price is still holding.

It's kind of like a medieval road movie. It's 1267 and Franciscan friar Roger Bacon, one of Europe's first empirical scientists (back in those days, they called what he studied "natural philosophy") has charged his pupil John (also a Franciscan monk) along with two companions, Brother Andrew and Brother Bernard, to deliver scientific instruments and Bacon’s great opus (a book containing pretty much everything he knows) to Pope Clement IV, currently residing in the Italian town of Viterbo.

So it's like a road movie. Call it "John and Andrew and Bernard's Excellent Medieval Adventure". The Amazon blurb says

John the Pupil is a road movie,

I thought I just said that.

...recounting the journey taken from Oxford to Viterbo by John and his two companions. Modeling themselves after Saint Francis, the men trek by foot through Europe, preaching the gospel and begging for sustenance. In addition to fighting off ambushes from thieves hungry for the thing of power they are carrying, the holy trio is tried and tempted by all sorts of sins: ambition, pride, lust - and by the sheer hell and heaven of medieval life.

All that, and a MacGuffin, too.

___________

Moronette 'votermom' is putting together a list of moron authors over on the Goodreads site which is intended to be accessible to non-members. Here is the list she has compiled so far. Let her know if there's an author she's missing.

http://www.bookhorde.org/p/aoshq-authors.html

___________

Don't forget the AoSHQ reading group on Goodreads. It's meant to support horde writers and to talk about the great books that come up on the book thread. It's called AoSHQ Moron Horde and the link to it is here: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/175335-aoshq-moron-horde.

___________

So that's all for this week. As always, book thread tips, suggestions, bribes, rumors, threats, and insults may be sent to OregonMuse, Proprietor, AoSHQ Book Thread, at the book thread e-mail address: aoshqbookthread, followed by the 'at' sign, and then 'G' mail, and then dot cee oh emm.

What have you all been reading this week? Hopefully something good, because, as you all know, life is too short to be reading lousy books.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 08:55 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good morning bookworms

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 08:56 AM (0G2eQ)

2 So this is where you come in: send me a pic of *your* library, and I can feature it on the book thread. I know that few, if any of us are going to have libraries like the ones I've been showing, but even a couple of shelves will do. Or, if you have a library in a nice building near to where you live, that qualifies. Pics of finely bound books will also be welcome.

nice idea

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 08:56 AM (qCMvj)

3 Good morning horde!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 08:58 AM (Om16U)

4 I'm 1/3 through Patrick O'Brian's The Mauritius Command, I definitely need to get a reference book on sailing terms. I think it will help, I get most but some terms i have no idea.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 08:59 AM (0G2eQ)

5 I got a couple of butt-hurt SJW comments on my post about the Dragon Awards.

I think I may have hurt some feeelings.

http://www.bookhorde.org/2016/08/the-new-dragon-awards-vote-for-good-guys.html

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:00 AM (Om16U)

6 I was surprised to see a picture of a church as the post was loading, but then figured it must just be all the wood and the seating arrangement.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 09:00 AM (GDulk)

7 Currently rereading the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. The real books which were good as opposed to the TV series which was crap. The TV series was just a remake of Xena Warrior Princess under a different name. It removed not only major plot lines but made no mention of the "Wizard's Rules" and the context of conservative thought that occurs throughout the books. I quit watching the TV version after three episodes when I finally realized it was not going to get any better. My wife continued to watch though.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:01 AM (mpXpK)

8

I'm reading the first of 4 in the Elena Ferrante Neapolitan series:

My Brilliant Friend : Neapolitan Novels, Book One
by Elena Ferrante et al.
Link: https://amzn.com/1609450787

It was given to me as a gift, by someone who mainly reads translation novels, and I thought I would give it a try although I have a huge stack of other stuff I wanted to read.

TBH, it's not my thing, but will finish the first book and see if it compels me to read the next. One thing I hate is reading a book that I don't particularly like while I could be reading something I do. Life it soo short, and there are more books then we can devour in a lifetime. But, this was a gift, and she's waiting to see what I think...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 09:02 AM (qCMvj)

9 Apparently designed from scratch as a library... but then... assholes have to be assholes, and foist their crap on the rest of us:
"The original plans for the third wing of the library, completed in 1963, were extensively revised, as by this time the University had largely moved away from its earlier architectural style and had adopted instead modernist concrete and glass forms."

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 28, 2016 09:02 AM (9mTYi)

10 Currently rereading the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. The real books which were good as opposed to the TV series which was crap. The TV series was just a remake of Xena Warrior Princess under a different name. It removed not only major plot lines but made no mention of the "Wizard's Rules" and the context of conservative thought that occurs throughout the books. I quit watching the TV version after three episodes when I finally realized it was not going to get any better. My wife continued to watch though.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:01 AM (mpXpK)

yeah, the tv series was junk
I never watched more than a handful of episodes.

Not only did they leave out critical details, they cast the wrong people. A skinny little elf-looking character for Richard, and a woman who I just couldn't believe was Kahlan. Zed wasn't too bad, but the whole thing was so crappy.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 09:05 AM (qCMvj)

11 "...University had largely moved away from its earlier architectural style and had adopted instead modernist concrete and glass forms."
----------------

I'm going to rephrase that:"...adopted instead souless, cold, commie bullshit."

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 28, 2016 09:05 AM (9mTYi)

12 Having read too much history lately, currently reading a very light P.D. James trilogy.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 28, 2016 09:08 AM (9mTYi)

13 It wasn't a church? Huh. Coulda fooled me.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:09 AM (Om16U)

14 Watching the race at Spa-Francorchamps it is making me want to get back to A Time for Trumpets by Col Charles B MacDonald to see who won. I don't see Pzkw IV's guarding the track so the US might have won.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 09:09 AM (0G2eQ)

15 Seems like various Gothic revival styles were popular in Seattle, because my beloved church was built in that style too, finished in 1910: http://tinyurl.com/gvdmatz

According to the history page on the Suzzalo Library, it was built that way on purpose, never a church, and it was called "collegiate Gothic." It was built in 1915, so it was perhaps a pre-war thing.

Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 09:09 AM (VsZJP)

16

Looking for my copy of Green Eggs and Ham, because I'm hungry, and going to go make eggs now.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 09:11 AM (qCMvj)

17 Oregon, I think you might like this blog post

http://www.blogto.com/city/2013/09/what_libraries_used_to_look_like_in_toronto/

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:13 AM (Om16U)

18 I call dibs on the Casa Loma Library though - come the apocalypse, that's my new digs.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:15 AM (Om16U)

19 I do not like green eggs and ham, i do like like the artisanal'ette I am

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 09:15 AM (0G2eQ)

20 Nanny Bloomberg always reminded me of Elaine's boss from "Sienfeld", Mr. Pitt, who had tons of money and no common sense.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 28, 2016 09:16 AM (ej1L0)

21 Fourth-generation UW graduate here. Suzzallo's always been a library. The older buildings on the central campus are all designed in University Gothic style, and it's a very pleasant place to walk around on a nice day. The university bookstore is wonderful as well.

Posted by: Mrs. Knemon at August 28, 2016 09:16 AM (OSAJi)

22 The was a time when Libraries were considered to be Temples of Knowledge, and look like it.

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commenter of equal or greater value at August 28, 2016 09:16 AM (rwI+c)

23 My dad was a proud alum of UW (undergrad and grad school). He was the first grad student in their metallurgical engineering department. The Suzzallo Library has always been a library, it was designed to be "the crown jewel" of the campus. UW really is one of the most beautiful college campuses, and its football stadium has absolute killer views of Lake Washington.

Posted by: runningrn at August 28, 2016 09:17 AM (sUP4M)

24 University of Chicago has a lot of Gothic-type architecture still -- although Mies and the Bauhaus did the newer ugly stuff.

Chicago Public Library is a hoot (wise owls themes) architecturally. It looks almost as though the ornamentation is bigger than the building itself.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 09:18 AM (MIKMs)

25 "The University of Washington was founded in 1861, less than ten years after the creation of the Washington Territory and before the settler population of Seattle had exceeded 350 people. "

https://www.lib.washington.edu/suzzallo/visit/history

Now that's optimism.

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commenter of equal or greater value at August 28, 2016 09:19 AM (rwI+c)

26 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:01 AM (mpXpK)

I liked the first season *but* I never read the books. The only Goodkind book I liked was Magic Kingdom For Sale. Couldn't get past the first chapter of the first Shanarra book even though I really wanted to like it since John did and we were newly married. That was 20 years ago though, so maybe I should give it another try.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 09:20 AM (GDulk)

27 Morons send in pics of their pets for the pet thread, and this would be similar. I think it would be fun.

Yes it would be. But in my case it would be more embarrassing than fun. FunNY, maybe.

Posted by: rickl at August 28, 2016 09:21 AM (sdi6R)

28 The Boys in the Boat is a great read!

Posted by: UW defeats Hitler at August 28, 2016 09:21 AM (qlPzn)

29 Good morning my fellow Book Threadists. For nerds like me, the 2017 Old Farmer's Almanac comes out this Tuesday. (Yes, I pre-ordered my copy.) This is the 225th anniversary edition. I don't have many traditions in life but getting the OFA and reading LOTR each year probably count.

The OFS is just a combination of information and fun.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:22 AM (V+03K)

30 Alas the college reading room I'm working on isn't in the class of the one above, but doubt anything on that level would cost a astronomical amount.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 09:23 AM (0G2eQ)

31 Boys in The Boat was THE best book I read in 2015!

Posted by: runningrn at August 28, 2016 09:23 AM (sUP4M)

32 I posted the review of "Indestructible" this week on Amazon -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316339407
The book will be released in early October, but was made available to Vine reviewers. It was pretty darned good, I thought - reading more like a novel than a strict history of one man's war.
I am finishing writing the third Luna City chronicle, which will be available early in October as well.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at August 28, 2016 09:23 AM (xnmPy)

33 Kid the elder marathoned through the the Shannara tv series, then borrowed the Elfstones of Shannara from the library.

Her comment - "there are so many details - are all old fantasy books like this?"

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:23 AM (Om16U)

34 My dad lived in the DC area when he was in high school, and he said he would study at the Library of Congress all the time. Apparently it was open to the public for that type of thing back them. Must have been so cool...

Posted by: Lizzy at August 28, 2016 09:23 AM (NOIQH)

35 U of Chicago's Oriental Institute has a beautiful research library.

http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/research-archives-library

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 09:24 AM (MIKMs)

36 My wife continued to watch though.

My husband watched it for the heaving bosoms. It was Xena meets Baywatch. I was disappointed by how much they changed the story line. It could have been great.

Posted by: no good deed at August 28, 2016 09:24 AM (9nt94)

37 F. Paul Wilson, of the Repairman Jack series, had a short story called Lipid Legger, in which the main character is someone who blackmarkets eggs, bacon, cream and other such banned substances, in the North East.

Bacon and Eggs Man made me think of it.

Wilson has had a lot of success with Repairman Jack (if you haven't read any books in the series, I suggest starting with the first one, The Tomb, the technical issues about guns gets better as the series goes on)
but he also had a less successful universe that was the setting for a series of short stories and a number of books, The Terry, and An Enemy of the State. and Wheels Within Wheels. They are all set in the LaNague confederation, a strictly libertarian confederacy of planets that broke away from Earth, and as such things do, winds up struggling with creeping statism

He started out as an Analog author, by the way.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 09:26 AM (ry34m)

38 4 ... Skip, For nautical terms pertaining to the O'Brian book, Check out "A Sea of Words". I keep a copy next to my O'Brian books. And it's fun reading on its own.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:26 AM (V+03K)

39 The only Goodkind book I liked was Magic Kingdom For Sale. Couldn't get past the first chapter of the first Shanarra book

That's Terry Brooks, not Goodkind.

Posted by: no good deed at August 28, 2016 09:27 AM (9nt94)

40 You would think that was a church, but it was purpose built as that library.

https://www.lib.washington.edu/suzzallo/visit/about

It is in the very common for the time, and for churches, gothic style. The parish I was baptized in, and my parents married in, which is only a mile or two away, and built around the same time - Blessed Sacrament - looks *very* similar inside and out.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 09:27 AM (0KfYo)

41 @9 assholes have to be assholes --Dah Hamma
Think maybe we've been on some of the same job sites.

9 out of 10 "architects" now work as project managers. Prima donna architects have about priced themselves out of even the Big Govt market, plus, Butler buildings and formable foam really have Changed Everything.

Hard to take it in, that it was only one short generation between a certain architecture critic (who was also a Russian Novelist) mocking me-too designers who mixed the classical forms, and was able to assume everyone knew what classical forms looked like, and Tom Wolfe laughing up his sleeve as Brutalists stuck gargoyles and cornices onto their Lego blocks, just to stay employable.

If you love to build, today you take a course in Construction Management with a specialty in building design; it's all there in the CAD package to "quote"-- in more ways than one. Frank Wrong (and Howard Roark) made their bones by bringing in projects at the budgeted amount. We seem to have lost touch with that one aspect of The Profession.

At the east end of the museum that houses "The Architect's Dream" is an annex by a guy whose name sounds like "I Am Well Paid." It looks exactly as if the crane cable broke as the real building was being lifted into place. I had a friend born in 1899, who'd seen it all in Our Fair City. She was less dismayed at the prospect than I was, because, long view. She said "You'll live to see that thing taken down. From what I've heard of the internal structure, it won't last as long as the parking lot."

Posted by: Stringer Davis at August 28, 2016 09:27 AM (tIja6)

42 Ah, Suzallo. Countless hours studying there. The whole Gothic - Romanesque original buildings are beautiful. Then the Brutalists took over. The ugliest building on campus is of course Architecture.

But new Husky Stadium is great.

Posted by: Skookumchuk at August 28, 2016 09:28 AM (SKzm4)

43 I'm 1/3 through Patrick O'Brian's The Mauritius Command, I definitely need to get a reference book on sailing terms. I think it will help, I get most but some terms i have no idea.

Skip, my son and i disagree about this. I think not starting at the beginning is heresy. He disagrees.
I've read the series twice over now. I think it's gonna be a life-long habit... like reading Churchill's account of WWll.
Enjoy.

Posted by: MarkY at August 28, 2016 09:28 AM (CaWoC)

44 Suzzalo was indeed built as a library. If you saw a good shot of the facade you'd see that there are rather attractive sculptures on the front, but they are not religious, more "the enlightenment of learing" kind of theme. I guess in keeping with their motto "Lux Sit". UW has a lot of gothic architecture, with some oddities like gargoyles wearing WWI era gas masks. I enjoyed my time at that school, and that reading room was a very pleasant place to read.

Posted by: Plum Duff (formerly lurker above) at August 28, 2016 09:29 AM (Qw0wn)

45 26 I liked the first season *but* I never read the
books. The only Goodkind book I liked was Magic Kingdom For Sale.
Couldn't get past the first chapter of the first Shanarra book even
though I really wanted to like it since John did and we were newly
married. That was 20 years ago though, so maybe I should give it another
try.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 09:20 AM (GDulk)

Wrong Terry. That was Terry Brooks, not Terry Goodkind.

I used to like Terry Brooks but a few years ago I picked up his latest Shannara book at the library and once again it was the same plot over again as the original Shannara books with different names. I took the book back and gave up on him. I would not mind having the three original Shannara books on Kindle but I am still waiting for them to come down to a price that reflects the fact that they are 14 years old.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:30 AM (mpXpK)

46 I have the preview of A Sea of Words, i might get it before moving to the next Aubrey/Maturin novel.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (0G2eQ)

47 A request, if you will...

I homeschool my two boys and this year in Social Studies we're going over Roman Empire to 1700ish. While their textbook goes over Islam (of course), I'd also like to add development of Christian thought , at a high level, to this. While I have the Reformation covered, I would love some resources (for early teens) on Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. I'm not aiming to go deep on them yet but I'd love to hear of any books (or other resources) for this age that would introduce them to these topics. Thanks.

Posted by: dwinnorcal at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (+5lVk)

48 For a small school in L.A. L-M has a great library. Nice location too.

Posted by: Loyola Marymount at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (qlPzn)

49 I need to get ready for church now, but I saw a comment from runningrn and wanted to say hi.

Hi, runningrn! Good to see you around!

Posted by: Emmie at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (xVuS6)

50 What is the address for sending pics?

Posted by: Libra at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (GblmV)

51 Conservatives should just get used to losing they are a minority even within the minority party
They are dieing from self inflicted wounds

Posted by: him at August 28, 2016 09:32 AM (xRPgj)

52 "14
Watching the race at Spa-Francorchamps it is making me want to get back
to A Time for Trumpets by Col Charles B MacDonald to see who won. I
don't see Pzkw IV's guarding the track so the US might have won.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 09:09 AM (0G2eQ)"

I hope this is not a spoiler but the tracks are guarded by Pxkw XVIs and blond men carrying StGw 89s these days. You really ought to finish the book to see how that all happened.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 09:33 AM (gvwYn)

53 29
Good morning my fellow Book Threadists. For nerds like me, the 2017 Old
Farmer's Almanac comes out this Tuesday. (Yes, I pre-ordered my copy.)
This is the 225th anniversary edition. I don't have many traditions in
life but getting the OFA and reading LOTR each year probably count.

The OFS is just a combination of information and fun.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:22 AM (V+03K)

That is a tradition with me too. Their long range Summer and Winter predictions are much more accurate than the government. Maybe that's because even though they are from VT they do not believe the government AGW lies.

In fact, they are one of the groups that have predicted that it looks like we are headed for another mini-ice age. But you already knew that.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:33 AM (mpXpK)

54 @51 Yet even in my death throes I can spell "dying."
So there is that.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at August 28, 2016 09:34 AM (tIja6)

55 33
Kid the elder marathoned through the the Shannara tv series, then borrowed the Elfstones of Shannara from the library.

Her comment - "there are so many details - are all old fantasy books like this?"

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:23 AM (Om16U)

LOL, she has discovered that there is a 95% probability that TV will ruin a book.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:35 AM (mpXpK)

56 Just finished "Space Eldritch 2", an antholgy of futuristic Cthulhu stories, including one by Larry Correia. All were good, but did vary in quality. The last story "Fall of the Runewrought" by Howard Tayler is more of a fantasy/action story and doesn't really fit in with "Space Eldritch". It is however a really entertaining read.

Currently about a quarter of the way into "Monster Hunter memoirs: Grunge" by John Ringo. Ringo has stepped into Larry Corriea's "Monster Hunter" universe, and so far appears to be doing a good job of it.

Posted by: Darth Randall at August 28, 2016 09:35 AM (6n332)

57
Last week I asked if "Killing Reagan" was a waste of time. I got a couple of of "mehs" so decided to see for myself. Here's my review:
If you like books that never miss a chance to point out how stupid Ronnie was and how much of a bitch Mommie was then you might like it if you can get past the insipid chapter openings like "The man who has thirty years to live is blah blah blah". You might also have to ignore all the stuff that has nothing to do with Reagan and chew on the little bits in themini-chapters about how Hinkley was crazy and it wasn't his fault to make it to the later parts of the book but I didn't bother with that.

So yes, waste of time. O'Rilley is an idiot. That should have been my first clue.

Posted by: freaked at August 28, 2016 09:36 AM (BO/km)

58 Conservatives should just get used to losing they are a minority even within the minority party
They are dieing from self inflicted wounds
Posted by: him

Spelling 60
Punctuation 60
Content 60
Grade F+

Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 28, 2016 09:36 AM (ZFUt7)

59 36 My husband watched it for the heaving bosoms. It was
Xena meets Baywatch. I was disappointed by how much they changed the
story line. It could have been great.

Posted by: no good deed at August 28, 2016 09:24 AM (9nt94)

LOL, you should have took yours out and shook them at him and said "this boob is for you" as the old spiders and snakes song goes.

He would have given up that crappy series.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:37 AM (mpXpK)

60 I've said before that I've cut way back on constantly following news, partly to avoid the lies and BS of the MFM and partly because we cut off TV. Seriously, I get more accurate and timely news from AoSHQ than any other outlet, which is enough for my needs. Wallowing in the ills and stupidities of the planet does no one any good: it saps the life out of me and I got tired of living at a non-stop eruption. It leads to rage and compassion fatigue. My time is better spent reading "king Solomon's Mines", "Paradise Lost", or LOTR again.

Then I came across this.

CS Lewis wrote this 70 years ago in a letter. The last line is especially pertinent to the present situations of virtue signalling or even those idiots who LOUDLY mourn someone they never knew like a celebrity or classmate who died.

"It is one of the evils of rapid diffusion of news that the sorrows of all the world come to us every morning. .... I doubt it is the duty of any private person to fix his mind on ills which he cannot help. (This may even become an escape from the works of charity we really can do to those we know.)

A great many people ... do now seem to think that the mere state of being worried is in itself meritorious."

Maybe CS Lewis should be regarded as less a professor and more of a prophet.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:37 AM (V+03K)

61 >>>>I've read the series twice over now. I think it's gonna be a life-long habit... like reading Churchill's account of WWll.

:::glances guiltily at set of six books bought intending to read yet gathering dust:::

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at August 28, 2016 09:42 AM (+b2T3)

62 I doubt it is the duty of any private person to fix his mind on ills
which he cannot help. (This may even become an escape from the works of
charity we really can do to those we know.)

I know I sometimes let it harden my heart to suffering. I've taken to doing works of charity for an individual, even if it's just holding the door open for someone.

Posted by: no good deed at August 28, 2016 09:42 AM (9nt94)

63 I love OM's quote about children learning to read on their parents' laps. If looking for a book that isn't Dr. Suess, try JRR Tolkien's "Mr. Bliss", a story he wrote and illustrated for his small children. It is funny, clever, and charming. (Kids would love the 'girabbit'.) Even adults can't help smiling while reading the story.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:42 AM (V+03K)

64 Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 09:09 AM (VsZJP)

Well, it's a small world isn't it?

I went to school there 5th-8th grade, not long before it was shut down.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 09:43 AM (0KfYo)

65 "59
36 My husband watched it for the heaving bosoms. It was

Xena meets Baywatch. I was disappointed by how much they changed the

story line. It could have been great.

Posted by: no good deed at August 28, 2016 09:24 AM (9nt94)

LOL,
you should have took yours out and shook them at him and said "this
boob is for you" as the old spiders and snakes song goes.

He would have given up that crappy series.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:37 AM (mpXpK)"

I seem to recall that a Democrat running for Congress in Maryland did something like that while in the midst of an ugly divorce. She went to jail and her political career seems to be over.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 09:43 AM (gvwYn)

66 Posted by: no good deed at August 28, 2016 09:27 AM (9nt94)

Ack! You're right. I wonder if I've ever even tried to read Goodkind then. Which is sort of surprising since Sf/F was one of my favorite genres growing up.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 09:46 AM (GDulk)

67 Posted by: him at August 28, 2016 09:32 AM (xRPgj)

At least, unlike illiterate trolls , they know how to spell.

Posted by: Donna&&&&&V. whitely brandishing ampersands&&&&&so there at August 28, 2016 09:47 AM (P8951)

68 47
A request, if you will...

I homeschool my two boys and this year in Social Studies we're going
over Roman Empire to 1700ish. While their textbook goes over Islam (of
course), I'd also like to add development of Christian thought , at a
high level, to this. While I have the Reformation covered, I would love
some resources (for early teens) on Augustine and . I'm
not aiming to go deep on them yet but I'd love to hear of any books (or
other resources) for this age that would introduce them to these topics.
Thanks.

Posted by: dwinnorcal at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (+5lVk)

The Roman Empire had really broken up into component city States by about 400 AD and ceased to exist as an "Empire".
You are speaking here more of the "middle ages" but if you want to cover Thomas Aquinas and the like I am sure your local library would have books on him and the like since he was hugely influential on the church.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:48 AM (mpXpK)

69 "So yes, waste of time. O'Rilley is an idiot. That should have been my first clue.

Posted by: freaked at August 28, 2016 09:36 AM (BO/km)"

Kind of what I expected but still disappointing. I haven't read any of O'Reilley's recent books but he wrote an entertaining book years ago about a TV news and opinion personality who goes around murdering people in revenge for having screwed him over years earlier.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 09:49 AM (gvwYn)

70 Oh BTW, avoid the Roman history by Gibbon. It is almost all opinion and overwhelmingly wrong.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:49 AM (mpXpK)

71 I read "When breath becomes air" when it first came out and it is still with me. It is the most profoundly moving book I have read lately. I am reading the bio of Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow. We got to see the play in the spring, and I loved it so much more than I thought I would. I thought I would read the source material.

Posted by: Abby at August 28, 2016 09:49 AM (HBU7W)

72 True story. Some of you know I bought a 100 year old church as my new home this year. But before we bought the church we looked at an old mansion house but decided the place needed too much work and the neighborhood was sketchy. Turns out the old mansion house was previously a community library.

Posted by: V the K at August 28, 2016 09:51 AM (Ovnvw)

73 Hugo Awards: Child Molestation and Puppy Kicking

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gs69cco

Posted by: The Political Hat at August 28, 2016 09:51 AM (vBeA5)

74 For those in the area, Amazon has plans to build a brick and mortar bookstore in Chicago to open next year. I assume the front windows will be bullet proof.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:52 AM (V+03K)

75 I've been rereading The Blue Max by Jack D. Hunter, the novel on which the classic movie is based. It is considerably different including as to who lives and who dies but perhaps most significantly a major theme, I'm tempted to say the major theme is alcoholism. Like several of the books I read in high school or as a young adult, I'm getting a lot more out of it now. Some books grow with age; others reveal themselves as shallow.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at August 28, 2016 09:53 AM (Nwg0u)

76 I didn't read "Killing Reagan" but I did read the Lincoln and Patton books by O'Reilly and they were quite good. Entertaining but not very deep. I really enjoyed his Legends and Lies book about the Old West and I have enjoyed the Legends and Lies book about the patriots.

Posted by: Abby at August 28, 2016 09:53 AM (HBU7W)

77 I am dieing from self-inflicted cast-iron

Posted by: The Die Master at August 28, 2016 09:55 AM (Om16U)

78 The Roman Empire had really broken up into component city States by about 400 AD and ceased to exist as an "Empire".

All empires begin in revolution and end in dissolution. Expect the USA is headed in this direction.

Posted by: V the K at August 28, 2016 09:55 AM (Ovnvw)

79 Its been a few years since I read them but Will & Ariel Durant's History of Civilization covers from Age of Christ to 1900's. But they are weighty tomes. But it would be possible to find chapters useful.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 09:56 AM (0G2eQ)

80

Just lurking.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at August 28, 2016 09:56 AM (tIYXJ)

81 Most printers are guilty of dieing from self inflicted wounds, the newspapers seem to appreciate it though.

Posted by: Patrick Henry at August 28, 2016 09:56 AM (6Ia28)

82 46 ... Skip, Check out used bookstores for a copy of "A Sea of Words". I just grabbed a copy for less than two bucks. A gift for a teenager who wants to start the Aubrey series.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:57 AM (V+03K)

83 BTW, avoid the Roman history by Gibbon. It is almost all opinion and overwhelmingly wrong.

-
One of my all time favorite books. The writing is excellent. There used to be a Magic Eight Ball type site on the web that would generate random Gibbon quotes to stimulate your thinking.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at August 28, 2016 09:57 AM (Nwg0u)

84 Today on my blog, just a signal boost for my blog friends' talk radio show today at 3PM

Link in nic

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:57 AM (Om16U)

85 Holy cow I actually just saw a Trump tv ad on tv!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:58 AM (Om16U)

86 17 Oregon, I think you might like this blog post

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 09:13 AM (Om16U)

I do, thank you! Many cool pics to poach.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 09:59 AM (iobLY)

87 It's my birthday!

Love me!

Posted by: David Fincher at August 28, 2016 09:59 AM (5HyS+)

88 I know anytime I see "Hugo Winning Author" in the blurb for the book I get paranoid and check out when they won and everything else before I consider purchasing.

Back in the early aughts, I used to frequent FictionWise which was an early e-book store. The would give away some of the short fiction Hugo nominees or winners each year. Most of the stories were brutally bad.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 28, 2016 10:00 AM (Ee2nz)

89 I don't have any interest in reading science fiction, and have no knowledge, other than what I have read here, about the little dustup that exists in that boutique community, over their awards.

All I know is, from the description, you could just as easily be describing our national elections.

Trump = Sad Puppy (which, the name I'm sure, has a backstory, one I don't really care to know)

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:02 AM (Pz4pT)

90 I myself am constantly dyeing from self-inflicted hair colors.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:03 AM (Om16U)

91 JTB, Amazon has a brick and mortar store here at U Village shopping center in Seattle. As I walked past it with a friend, I said "Isn't it ironic that after so many brick and mortar bookstores closed down because of Amazon, they built one themselves?!"

Posted by: runningrn at August 28, 2016 10:04 AM (sUP4M)

92
LOL, she has discovered that there is a 95% probability that TV will ruin a book.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 09:35 AM (mpXpK)

Ain't that the truth!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:04 AM (Om16U)

93 All empires begin in revolution and end in dissolution. Expect the USA is headed in this direction.

Posted by: V the K at August 28, 2016 09:55 AM (Ovnvw)

Optimist

Posted by: Suppiluliuma II at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (vBeA5)

94 91 JTB, Amazon has a brick and mortar store here at U Village shopping center in Seattle. As I walked past it with a friend, I said "Isn't it ironic that after so many brick and mortar bookstores closed down because of Amazon, they built one themselves?!"
Posted by: runningrn at August 28, 2016 10:04 AM (sUP4M)

It's not ironic - it's planned. Jeff Bezos would have made a credible world conqueror if he had not decide to go into business instead.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (Om16U)

95 I read "The Devil's to Pay" John Buford at Gettysburg by Eric Wittenberg. It is a very detailed look at General Buford's actions just prior to the battle and then how he and his two small Union cavalry brigades fought during the battle of Gettysburg.

As an ACW buff, I was generally familiar with much of the battle, but the author dives into many memoirs and goes down to actions of specific people during the battle. One thing I learned that I did not know was that, in order to cover the retreat of the Union I and XI Corps, he mounted his brigades (after fighting dismounted all day) as if in preparation for a charge. General Hancock witnessed this (and he was no slouch as a fighting general) later wrote that he had never seen anything so magnificent as those two small brigades standing "unshaken and undaunted" in front of about two Corps-worth of Confederates.

The book is fairly short and definitely worth a read if you are a student of the Battle of Gettysburg. The author argues that Buford was the man that won Gettysburg for the Union: he selected the ground and correctly identified the approaching Confederate forces -- Meade had been contemplating falling back to Pipe Creek before going into a battle with Lee.

Wittenberg also looks at the aftermath and later careers of some of the participants. West Point is apparently using Buford's fight as a text book example of what is now termed a Covering Force Action.

My only quibble is that the contour lines in the maps are a bit confusing if you are not familiar with the topography of the battlefield. I give the book 5 out of 5 stars.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (5Yee7)

96 Polliwog, I don't think you will disappointed if you read The Sword of Truth series. It's one of my favorites. I started it not long after I discovered The Wheel of Time. Unlike Robert Jordan, Goodkind finished his story before he died. Now, I've only read one of the new books he's done set in the world without magic. It seems to me he's looked at GRRM, and said, hey, I can do that too.

Posted by: no good deed at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (9nt94)

97 I loved Julian by Gore Vidal. Really was a great exposition of the tensions between the philosophers and the clergy and the last gasp of the Roman Empire.

(Yeah, I know, Vidal was a weirdo. But he could write.)

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (MIKMs)

98 I myself am constantly dyeing from self-inflicted hair colors.
Posted by: @votermom

Only her hairdresser knows for sure.

Posted by: Clairol at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (xhqXI)

99 Trump = Sad Puppy (which, the name I'm sure, has a backstory, one I don't really care to know)

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:02 AM (Pz4pT)

Trump = Rabid Puppies.

Posted by: The Science Fictional Hat at August 28, 2016 10:06 AM (vBeA5)

100 I didn't read "Killing Reagan" but I did read the Lincoln and Patton books by O'Reilly and they were quite good. Entertaining but not very deep. I really enjoyed his Legends and Lies book about the Old West and I have enjoyed the Legends and Lies book about the patriots.
Posted by: Abby at August 28, 2016 09:53 AM (HBU7W)

I start with the assumption that O'really doesn't actually write these books, just puts his name on them.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:06 AM (Pz4pT)

101 The letterpress operator mounted the die in the job case and continued dieing the pattern.

Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 28, 2016 10:06 AM (ZFUt7)

102 Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:02 AM (Pz4pT)

Trump = Rabid Puppies.
Posted by: The Science Fictional Hat at August 28, 2016 10:06 AM (vBeA5)

I'm sure that means something to you. It's possibly even clever.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:07 AM (Pz4pT)

103 Posted by: Emmie at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (xVuS6

Aww, "Hi!" Back, Emmie!

Posted by: runningrn at August 28, 2016 10:07 AM (sUP4M)

104 I just finished Daniel Silva's latest book (very good) and decided to go browsing on Amazon for a cheap easy read. Discovered an author named Scott Pratt. Lawyer book and actually am enjoying it quit a bit. Nothing deep but a good read. Turns out he has written 8 of them so this should keep me busy for awhile.

Posted by: Molly k. at August 28, 2016 10:07 AM (shN0m)

105 All for the fact that Hamilton the musical may be allowing some to actually study the Founders...but Chernow tries too hard to modernize people in his biographers and he gets worse as he gets older. The Randall biography is more balanced in my view. In any case you can't get at these people and who they were without reading their original papers. Hard but worth the effort.

Posted by: Patrick Henry at August 28, 2016 10:08 AM (6Ia28)

106 Spelling 60
Punctuation 60
Content 60
Grade F+

Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 28, 2016 09:36 AM (ZFUt7)

Now, now. We hardly ever get trolls on the book thread. Surely you can be more generous.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 10:08 AM (iobLY)

107

Fantasy and fun for children.

A children's library I would love to visit, and will when in the area.

Brentwood Children's Library listed among best in nation and world

http://bit.ly/2bJmILZ

more pictures here

Inside the making of the enchanting Brentwood Library children's section

http://bit.ly/2bIOgzF

so adorable

Google Images for "Brentwood Children's Library" to see more. Magical.

More fun:

The 8 Most Incredible Children's Libraries in the World - These library escapes are pure fantasy.

http://www.retale.com/blog/incredible-reading-spaces-kids-world/

10 Best Children's Libraries

We looked at 500 libraries to find the best libraries for kids. The children's libraries we selected not only look amazing, they offer great programs and activities to get kids excited about reading, learning and exploring.

These are in the US only.

http://www.livability.com/top-10/families/10-best-childrens-libraries/2012/nc/charlotte

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 10:08 AM (qCMvj)

108 Good old Fr. Roger Bacon. Gave the world the Scientific Method without knowing a single thing about Evolution. Although I thought he was a Benedictine. But really, what do I know? For a long time I had him confused with Sir Francis Bacon. I'll have to put this book on my list!

Posted by: sinalco at August 28, 2016 10:08 AM (yODqO)

109 O'Reilly claims to write the books. He reads the audiobooks. If you believe him or not is up to you. I enjoyed the ones I read.

Posted by: abby at August 28, 2016 10:09 AM (HBU7W)

110 I got rid of that vapid V.E. Schwab book and finally started a REAL book this week. "Killer of Men" by Christian Cameron (who used to be an intel officer and aviator in the USN before he moved to Toronto to work on his Master's in Ancient History) reminds me of the better parts of "Gates of Fire". The book is historical fiction based in Greece just prior to the Battle of Marathon. Cameron is a true scholar of Hellenic military history and it shows in this work.

Here is a taste of what the book has to offer (and the section that gives the book it's name):

"But you were one of the better men," I said. "You were a - a killer."
Suddenly his eyes locked with mine and I could see him in his high-crested helm, his strong right arm pounding a lesser man's shield down, down, until he made the killing cut. I could see it as if I was there.
"Yes," he said. "I was a killer of men." Then his eyes slipped away. I knew where he was - he was on a battlefield. "I still am. Once you have been there, you can never leave."

Posted by: Pave Low John at August 28, 2016 10:09 AM (OejZ/)

111 While I have the Reformation covered, I would love some resources (for early teens) on Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.

I would say your best bet is Peter Kreeft, possibly along with Chesterton's St. Thomas Aquinas.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at August 28, 2016 10:10 AM (m2sZd)

112 "It is one of the evils of rapid diffusion of news that the sorrows of all the world come to us every morning. .... I doubt it is the duty of any private person to fix his mind on ills which he cannot help. (This may even become an escape from the works of charity we really can do to those we know.)
A great many people ... do now seem to think that the mere state of being worried is in itself meritorious."

Maybe CS Lewis should be regarded as less a professor and more of a prophet.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 09:37 AM (V+03K)

Excellent words. And of course, Lewis never read newspapers. He figured that if something really important happened, someone would tell him.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 10:11 AM (iobLY)

113 Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 28, 2016 09:36 AM (ZFUt7)

Now, now. We hardly ever get trolls on the book thread. Surely you can be more generous.
Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 10:08 AM (iobLY)

Grade inflation? You're advocating for grade inflation? Where is the REAL OregonMuse, and what have you done with him/her??

Next thing you'll be arguing for fluoride in the water.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:12 AM (Pz4pT)

114 Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:02 AM (Pz4pT)

Trump = Rabid Puppies.
Posted by: The Science Fictional Hat at August 28, 2016 10:06 AM (vBeA5)

I'm sure that means something to you. It's possibly even clever.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:07 AM (Pz4pT)

Huh?

Of the two "puppy" campaigns for the Hugo Awards, I just find Trump more analogous to the "Rabid Puppies" rather than the "Sad Puppies".

Posted by: The Science Fictional Hat at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (vBeA5)

115 (Yeah, I know, Vidal was a weirdo. But he could write.)

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (MIKMs)

Yeah, I liked Julian, too.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (iobLY)

116 The mention above of Churchill reminded me. I just started Churchill's "World Crisis 1911-1918". It's an abridgement of his five volume history about WW I. The man was an annoyingly great writer.

I also picked up (used bookstore cheap) hardcovers of "Churchill: A Life" and Manchester's "The Last Lion: Alone" covering the years between the wars. The more I learn about Churchill, the more impressed I become.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (V+03K)

117 64, Jeff Wiemer, you mean the school was shut down? I think I have heard mention of the parish having a school.

The church is still open and very much in operation!

Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (VsZJP)

118 The book is historical fiction based in Greece just prior to the Battle of Marathon. Cameron is a true scholar of Hellenic military history and it shows in this work.

Posted by: Pave Low John

Have you read "The End of Sparta" by Victor Davis Hanson? Takes place during the wars between Sparta and Thebes.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (xhqXI)

119 61. Sit down and take your medicine! Ha
Actually Churchill has the BEST command of the English language of anyone I've ever read. It's worth the read to savor some of the sentences.

71. I've been disappointed in re-visiting authors I'd read young. Dickens, in particular, seems such a scold now. I can't take him.

Posted by: MarkY at August 28, 2016 10:14 AM (CaWoC)

120 Oh, I almost forgot!

HELP NEEDED!

For goodreads or goodreads-curious horde:

We urgently need nominees for our November group read.
November is horde-written (nominations close 8/31!)
December is non horde-written (by 9/31) and you can also nominate for this.

Here is the thread for nominating
http://preview.tinyurl.com/zf66w2s

(must be a group member to access the link but I will consider nominations mentioned here)

The only thing to consider when nominating is that getting the book must not be a burden on the readers - either available cheap (less than $3) or sure to be in the public library.

Thanks!!!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:14 AM (Om16U)

121 O'Reilly claims to write the books. He reads the audiobooks. If you believe him or not is up to you. I enjoyed the ones I read.
Posted by: abby at August 28, 2016 10:09 AM (HBU7W)

It wouldn't be the first time a tv news personality straight up lied about something.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:15 AM (Pz4pT)

122 Excellent words. And of course, Lewis never read
newspapers. He figured that if something really important happened,
someone would tell him.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 10:11 AM (iobLY)
=====
Seems to be a default state for a lot of us Morons in that we get our news here. Between AoS and Insty, I'm covered with all the news I can handle.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 10:15 AM (MIKMs)

123 Sorry, I meant post 75, not post 71, re: re-visiting authors.

Posted by: MarkY at August 28, 2016 10:15 AM (CaWoC)

124

I'm all for this. My voice is crap, but I love to sing, and sing all of the time. Music is also magical.

Why Your Library Needs Music

http://bit.ly/2bY12ZD

Mother Goose on the Loose

http://www.mgol.net/

Why MGOL?

Mother Goose on the Loose is a proven method for planning and presenting programs that focuses on the WHOLE CHILD and incorporates research-based theories of learning, music, puppets, picture books, nursery rhymes, art, play, and language.

I love this. And if it encourages kid to read more, a bonus.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 10:15 AM (qCMvj)

125 "...University had largely moved away from its earlier architectural style and had adopted instead modernist concrete and glass forms."
----------------

I'm going to rephrase that:"...adopted instead souless, cold, commie bullshit."
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 28, 2016 09:05 AM (9mTYi)

My alma mater, University of Toledo, started to go that way in the 60's and then stopped. Now they make sure everything has at least a nice stone facade. They even went back and redid a few of the 60's monstrosities to fit in better. It gives the campus a nice, consistent collegiate feel.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 28, 2016 10:15 AM (Ee2nz)

126 +1 on Terry Goodkind. It is an epic fantasy for adults because of....Denna in red....leather.....

Posted by: lindafell de spair- racist, mysognistic, uneducated, bitter, redneck, Moron in TEXIT! at August 28, 2016 10:16 AM (xVgrA)

127 Read Henry V by Shakespeare where Prince Hal has become a serious war leader and leads England to defeat the French at the Battle of Agincourt (no mention of longbows). Very good war play, quite a bit of it is in French and one scene is all in French.

Also read his play Julius Caesar, thankfully all in English. Very good characters and story, chock full of famous quotes and stabbings.

Posted by: waelse1 at August 28, 2016 10:16 AM (w3VUi)

128 I know anytime I see "Hugo Winning Author" in the blurb for the book I get paranoid and check out when they won and everything else before I consider purchasing.

-
Progressivism destroys everything it touches.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 10:16 AM (Nwg0u)

129

A young reader, haha.

I gave Wiggle, March, an Indestructible book, to my friend Jen, after the birth of her son. She recently sent me a video of him "using" the book. It is so wonderful, I am including the video below!

http://www.mgol.net/2016/05/mother-goose-on-the-loose-goslings/

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 10:18 AM (qCMvj)

130 Hat is right.

Sad Puppies was started by Larry Correia and is more generally right-wing.
Rabid Puppies was inspired by Sad Puppies and started by Vox Day and is more libertarian.

Both groups appear to respect each other.

Since Correia is neverTrump, politically I think Trump would find more fans in Rabid Puppies (they also seem to align more with alt-right).

These are all just my impressions as an outsider.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:18 AM (Om16U)

131 Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:07 AM (Pz4pT)

Huh?

Of the two "puppy" campaigns for the Hugo Awards, I just find Trump more analogous to the "Rabid Puppies" rather than the "Sad Puppies".
Posted by: The Science Fictional Hat at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (vBeA5)

I prefaced my first comment by very clearly stating I have no idea what any of this stuff is all about, other than what I'm reading here.

I have no knowledge of who or what a sad puppy or a rabid puppy is, or what the difference is between them. I'm responding to the above description of the efforts to break into a boutique awards clique, and the response from the establishment.

That's all. Larger meaning, regarding who is what and why, I haven't a clue. If you do, that's fine. I don't have any idea what you are talking about though.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:18 AM (Pz4pT)

132

Time to Wiggle, March myself.

A nice stroll outside for an hour or so.

Read on.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 10:19 AM (qCMvj)

133 OK. I know this is the classy book thread but it is not right for the Morons to miss reading this story.

http://tinyurl.com/zjc9hvy

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 10:19 AM (gvwYn)

134 OM, have you looked at the royal library of El Escorial, or the Lello bookstore in Porto, Portugal?

El Escorial looks like a cathedral and the Lello looks like an Escher painting

My local libraries are basic warehouses for books, and my favorite local bookstores are as appealing as a level of Doom. Fun to run through and search but not photogenic.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 10:20 AM (ry34m)

135 I know anytime I see "Hugo Winning Author" in the blurb for the book I get paranoid and check out when they won and everything else before I consider purchasing.

--

I do the same kind of screening for any books for kids and YA with any awards on it.
This started after I attempted to read a really horrible award winning YA fantasy (Tender Morsels by Margo Lanagan).

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:21 AM (Om16U)

136 Re: Hamilton
Vidal dices him up in "Burr".
(And I agree with mustbequantum).

Posted by: MarkY at August 28, 2016 10:23 AM (CaWoC)

137 "It wouldn't be the first time a tv news personality straight up lied about something."

And, if you understand O'Really's tenuous grasp of current day facts, then his books being full of historical errors doesn't quite seem to surprise.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 28, 2016 10:23 AM (9ym/8)

138 117 64, Jeff Wiemer, you mean the school was shut down? I think I have heard mention of the parish having a school.

The church is still open and very much in operation!
Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (VsZJP)

The school shut down for good after the '85-'86 school year. It's the building across the street, now used for night-school college classes, I believe.

There was another building, the "old school", built at the same time as the church, next door to the new school building (to the right if standing on the church steps). It was used as offices until it was burned down - arson. Not long after that, it was discovered that the accountant had embezzled quite a bit of money form the parish. I doubt that was coincidence. I also think the embezzlement was a primary reason the school closed - it looked like it was doing worse than it really was.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 10:23 AM (0KfYo)

139 95 ... RBC, Thanks for mentioning the General Buford Gettysburg book. I always found that part of the battle interesting but there isn't as much detail about the man and his actions as there is on other aspects of the battle. This one goes on the list.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 10:25 AM (V+03K)

140 one scene is all in French.

-
I have some familiarity with French but never understood that scene until I saw the Lawrence Olivier movie version. It's a lengthy dirty pun. The French princess is trying to learn English and is offended by the word "gown" which sounds like the French word for "cvnt". There is another, similar pun which I don't recall off the top of my head.

P.S. I don't really like the Olivier movie. It was made in 1944 and is propaganda. Accordingly the Brits must be the good guys which requires deleting the scene where Brit traitors are unmasked and deleting the references to Henry killing his prisoners.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 10:26 AM (Nwg0u)

141 My big contribution to literary criticism this week is 'Click, Clack, Moo Cows That Type' by Doreen Cronin (Caldecott Winner). My edition is a board book that I haven't let my 2yo grandson have by himself because he eats books and won't let me read to him. Funny that the cows and the farmer are arguing over electric blankets through manual typewriters. Cute book, heavy on the irony.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 10:26 AM (MIKMs)

142 And, if you understand O'Really's tenuous grasp of current day facts, then his books being full of historical errors doesn't quite seem to surprise.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill

For example, he completely left out the part where I told Patton to pivot north to Bastogne.

Posted by: Brian Williams at August 28, 2016 10:26 AM (xhqXI)

143 I completely forgot to mention what I'm reading: still the same from last week.

Citizen Jane, a true-crime about a woman whose aunt was murdered by her high-functioning sociopath boyfriend. Woman went on to form a group for "survivors of homicide." Seriously, that's how the book put it. It's obvious what was meant but that made me giggle.

And "Hollywood Party" continues apace. While I was looking for something to watch on amazon prime, I came across "Trumbo" and made the mistake of reading the description which said something about the "Hollywood 10" being persecuted for their political beliefs, which of course made me see red in two ways. Dammit, they were persecuted for being a bunch of freaking traitors and they deserved a whole lot more than what they got.

Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 10:28 AM (VsZJP)

144 A request, if you will...

I homeschool my two boys and this year in Social Studies we're going over Roman Empire to 1700ish. While their textbook goes over Islam (of course), I'd also like to add development of Christian thought , at a high level, to this. While I have the Reformation covered, I would love some resources (for early teens) on Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. I'm not aiming to go deep on them yet but I'd love to hear of any books (or other resources) for this age that would introduce them to these topics. Thanks.
Posted by: dwinnorcal at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (+5lVk)

The Great Courses has a three set series on the Middle, High, and Late Middle Ages. It's not specifically about Christianity, but it does cover a decent amount of Christian development during that period because much of what happens doesn't make sense unless you do. The lecturer is good and every once in awhile offers some funny asides.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 28, 2016 10:28 AM (Ee2nz)

145 Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 10:26 AM (MIKMs)

Those are fun!
I remember them from when kids were still kidlets

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:28 AM (Om16U)

146 OK. I know this is the classy book thread but it is not right for the Morons to miss reading this story.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole

I'll bet that was one sour kraut.

Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 28, 2016 10:29 AM (ZFUt7)

147 OK. I know this is the classy book thread but it is not right for the Morons to miss reading this story.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole

I'll bet that was one sour kraut.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative

https://youtu.be/6YMPAH67f4o

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at August 28, 2016 10:30 AM (xhqXI)

148 Adding to the library recs: Armstrong Browning Library at Baylor was
recognized by the BBC as one of the five most beautiful college
libraries in the US. And the library in Fredericksburg, TX, is gorgeous, too--it's in the old (1880s) courthouse.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at August 28, 2016 10:32 AM (m2sZd)

149 Oh, wait, look at the Mount Angel Abbey Library, Mt. Angel OR. It does not look like much from outside. The chapel is far more imposing from the outside.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 10:32 AM (ry34m)

150 I'm slowly and steadily making my way through James Clavell's "Noble House." Great story and setting, but very long and probably should have been edited down significantly

Posted by: HansGruber at August 28, 2016 10:34 AM (60SwY)

151 "It wouldn't be the first time a tv news personality straight up lied about something."
------------------------------

And, if you understand O'Really's tenuous grasp of current day facts, then his books being full of historical errors doesn't quite seem to surprise.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 28, 2016 10:23 AM (9ym/

Yeah, I could be wrong, but I figure people have 24 hours in a day, and O'really spends much of those 24 preening and trying to bang the help. I just don't see him as the type to take a few hours each day away from looking out for the folks to write books. Even bad books.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 10:35 AM (Pz4pT)

152 Thanks for mentioning the General Buford Gettysburg book.

-
I looked it up on Amazon. It seems the author has written a number of books on lesser known aspects of the Civil War.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 10:35 AM (Nwg0u)

153 The Great Courses is probably a wonderful resource for home schoolers if their kids are ready for the content. I used to listen to their CDs on my commute. My library had a large set of Great Coursed CDs and DVDs.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 10:36 AM (gvwYn)

154 Posted by: HansGruber at August 28, 2016 10:34 AM (60SwY)

Have you read "Shogun" and "Tai-Pan?"

They are the first books of his short series.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 10:36 AM (Zu3d9)

155 Shogun is one of my favorite books.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:37 AM (Om16U)

156 And The Great Courses will have something worthwhile on sale almost every month, althogh sometimes they're of the "buy two get one free" variety.

Posted by: random lurker at August 28, 2016 10:38 AM (+tRIN)

157 Working my way through Robert E Howard's "El Borak."

Many years ago I ran across the Del Ray collection of Howard's Solomon Kane books, and I loved them. (Saw it in on the shelf at Barns and Noble, grabbed it based on the cover.) Then I grabbed the other Del Rey collections, the three Conan books (glorious) the Kull book (Meh) and the Brath book (I hate Brath as a character.) For a while I stopped there, 'cause I'm mostly a high fantasy guy. But eventually I did get the El Borak and Sword Woman books to complete the collection.

El Borak is....interesting. It takes place in turn of the century central Asia. So, Afganistan, Pakistan, and all the other 'stans, back when they were under British rule. There is talk of Uzbeks and Kurds and other exotic ethnicities that are vaguely familiar thanks to modern events. It's...almost unsettling how oddly familiar the terms of the setting are.

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 28, 2016 10:40 AM (7aeqx)

158 I just finished The Disaster Artist about the making of The Room. I literally fell out of my chair laughing.

Who would have known that a movie about adultery and football in San Francisco would be so timely?

Next up is "Quiet" by Susan Cain about the power of introverts. I spend most of my day plotting against my co-workers, so hopefully it'll give me some tips on how to seal the deal.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at August 28, 2016 10:40 AM (VxHD9)

159 150
I'm slowly and steadily making my way through James Clavell's "Noble
House." Great story and setting, but very long and probably should have
been edited down significantly

Posted by: HansGruber at August 28, 2016 10:34 AM (60SwY)

Next to Shogun that is probably his best book. I enjoyed all of it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 10:41 AM (mpXpK)

160 83 BTW, avoid the Roman history by Gibbon. It is almost all opinion and overwhelmingly wrong.

-
One of my all time favorite books. The writing is excellent. There used to be a Magic Eight Ball type site on the web that would generate random Gibbon quotes to stimulate your thinking.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at August 28, 2016 09:57 AM (Nwg0u)

From what I've read, Gibbon is considered to be the first modern historian. I've never read his "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", but I have a one-volume abridgement by D.M. Low that I picked up at a yard sale.

I also got the first nine volumes of Will & Ariel Durant's series there, all in hardcover. Come to think of it, it wasn't exactly a yard sale; I think they were just giving books away for free to whoever was interested. I was told that the deceased person was a member of various book clubs.

That was an understatement. It was an unbelievable treasure trove of books piled on tables in the back yard. I must have hauled away 40-50 of them, and I wasn't even the first one to find it. The site had already been picked over before I even got there.

That dude had every science fiction novel ever published in paperback. I'm not terribly interested in fiction, but I did pick up "A Canticle for Leibowitz" because I've heard it's good.

Whoever amassed that collection was an even bigger book hoarder than I am, which is saying a lot.

Posted by: rickl at August 28, 2016 10:42 AM (sdi6R)

161 115 (Yeah, I know, Vidal was a weirdo. But he could write.)

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 10:05 AM (MIKMs)

Yeah, I liked Julian, too.
Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 10:13 AM (iobLY)

"Creation" is my favorite book of his.

Work, work, work. Run, run ,run- this morning.

Gotta throw a brisket on the smoker. Then go straight to handle an emergency at work. Then entertain my sis who's coming into town with kiddies in tow.

So, Micro-Mini-Review of "True Grit"-

Great book. Most of the humor comes from a demythologization of the West. More like Coen Bros' movie than John Waynes.

The villain is more stupid and mean than evil. But, there is heroism. Ends on a somber note.

Check it out.

Later, taters. I'll pop in and out if I can.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 28, 2016 10:43 AM (0cMkb)

162 >>>"Children are made readers on the laps of their parents."
--Emilie Buchwald.

And on the laps of their grandparents.

Posted by: m at August 28, 2016 10:43 AM (gfJWV)

163 There is another, similar pun which I don't recall off the top of my head.

-
The other is "foot" which sounds like the French word for "fvck".

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 10:44 AM (Nwg0u)

164 Thanks to those who recommended "Life and Death in Shanghai" by Nien Chang. Chinese Cultural Revolution of mid 1960s

It's really amazing the link-ups/similarities between the Revolutionaries of the Cultural Revolution and the workers of today's revolution in this country. Burn the books and other items reminding you of yesterday. Anyone can claim to be speaking as a revolutionary and then have the power to act. Those in power tell their workers what to do or not do in loose enough language that the people they are going after are screwed if they do or if they don't.

Posted by: John Pomeroy at August 28, 2016 10:47 AM (eoj7r)

165 WorldCon and the Hugos are already pretty much dead. Oddly enough, it didn't happen because of any SJW takeover of WorldCon attendees, but because of a decision that was made, decades ago. In other words, the current state of the Hugos is more of a symptom than the disease, and the patient is already dead, it just hasn't quite quit moving yet.

Long ago, the WorldCon pretty much rotated between, New York, Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles and was a place where all the SF editors of significance would be and, therefore, where an author wishing to break in or advance his position in the field would go to meet with them and get to know them so that their submissions wouldn't be from just an anonymous contributor, but from someone known. It was beneficial to attend.because you got to know the people and so could better tailor what you wrote to what they liked.

Deals were hammered out, revisions discussed, and booze flowed. It was a beautiful thing. However, there was a problem.

The "World" in "WorldCon" was, well, a misnomer. How could it be the World Science Fiction Convention, if it was always (or nearly always) held in the United States? So, they hammered out a rule changes in the business meetings of two successive years (the requirement for changing the bylaws) that basically ensured that the WorldCon would be outside the United States at least one year out of three.

At that point, the die was cast. An awful lot of the time, the WorldCon became much more expensive to go to for nearly everybody who goes. Since the publishers of significance, the writers, and the bulk of the market is in the United States, that meant that the WorldCon stopped being the place where you could count on all the major editors and most of the writers and and awful lot of the fans being on Labor Day weekend. The population of WorldCon eventually devolved into three groups, those who work on WorldCon every year, who get in for free and often have substantial amounts of their expenses reimbursed (if the WorldCon makes money), wealthy people who like to travel around the world, and everybody else. The last group is by far the smallest.

Enter DragonCon. Once DragonCon started, being careful to avoid Labor Day weekend (the traditional WorldCon date) it started to be a very big deal. It was held in late summer every year in the same place (Atlanta, if you don't already know.) Since, as I said before, the bulk of the writers, the publishers, and the fans are based in the United States, this became the place for authors and editors to meet, have a few drinks, and chew the fat. Eventually, DragonCon got a deal they couldn't refuse and (quite apologetically) moved to Labor Day weekend. Since DragonCon is the 900 pound gorilla, to avoid competing with DragonCon, WorldCons since then have shown a preference for dates other than Labor Day.

When I was involved with WorldCon a few years ago, a highly-placed person said "we have to give people a reason to come to WorldCon instead of DragonCon" but nobody could think of anything that would do that. If you're there to see people, and cons are all about people interacting, the bigger draw is where most of the people are.

The rules for site selection changed years ago to eliminate the requirement to select overseas sites, but it was too late. The people who attend (and vote on site selection--which has an additional cost) are more cosmopolitan than ever, so it's grown increasingly likely that a WorldCon will be held outside of North America. Heck, the NASFiC (the North American convention held when the WorldCon is outside North America) will be in Puerto Rico in 2017, when the WorldCon itself will be in Helsinki.

WorldCon has been stumbling along, living off its storied history and the Hugo's, but its glory years are long past. If it actually ends, I think it will be because of financial issues, but I think it won't end with a bang but a whimper and will linger a long time before it happens. However, there really is no way for it to make its way back to significance.

And that's one opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Posted by: A SMOF at August 28, 2016 10:48 AM (jT9wB)

166 The other is "foot" which sounds like the French word for "fvck".

"Pied"?

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at August 28, 2016 10:48 AM (VxHD9)

167 I'm dieting from self-inflicted calorie restriction.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at August 28, 2016 10:48 AM (wPiJc)

168 >"Children are made readers on the laps of their parents."

--Emilie Buchwald.

And on the laps of their grandparents. Posted by: m at August 28, 2016 10:43 AM (gfJWV)
=====

I never read to my kids, they read to me. Looks like grandson is starting the same tradition.

BTW -- A while ago when sending gifts for new babies, I just started sending a few board books rather than 'cute outfits'. My family is still laughing at the 'Puff the Magic Dragon' board book from this old hippie. Those little board books are useful and really enjoyed as gifts.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 10:49 AM (MIKMs)

169 "I'm dieting from self-inflicted calorie restriction."

Well, that was fast.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 28, 2016 10:51 AM (9ym/8)

170 The other is "foot" which sounds like the French word for "fvck".

"Pied"?

-
"Foot" sounds (kinda) like "foutre".

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 10:51 AM (Nwg0u)

171 Seems like various Gothic revival styles were popular in Seattle, because my beloved church was built in that style too, finished in 1910: http://tinyurl.com/gvdmatz

According to the history page on the Suzzalo Library, it was built that way on purpose, never a church, and it was called "collegiate Gothic." It was built in 1915, so it was perhaps a pre-war thing.
Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 09:09 AM (VsZJP)

===============================

Went to 4th-8th grade at the school at B.S. (There was always something 'naughty' about calling it that.) Served three years of Christmas and Easter Midnight masses in the late 60s. Fr. Hartman directed the altar boys and you got it right back then

Posted by: John Pomeroy at August 28, 2016 10:52 AM (eoj7r)

172 BTW, If you want to start learning about Winston Churchill, the Art of Manliness site has several excellent columns about him. They make a good, brief introduction to his habits and philosophy.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 10:52 AM (V+03K)

173 Posted by: Castle Guy at August 28, 2016 10:40 AM (7aeqx)

There is a manga called Brides that seems to be set in that region and era (I only read a few pages because the library didn't have the first in the series). The drawings of the clothes are amazing, but I'm sure the setting is highly romanticized since a realistic presentation would be "Nasty, brutal, and short."

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 10:53 AM (GDulk)

174 So the Henry V French scene proves Shakespeare was a Moron.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 10:53 AM (Nwg0u)

175 *wanders yawning through Book Thread* Mornin', all. Stayed up late writing so you Morons get more stuff to read. You're welcome. :-D

I watch the advent of the Dragon awards with great interest. It would certainly be useful to me to have awards actually go to books that are fun to read for a change. For those curious about the provenance of the term "Sad Puppies", that was Correia's tongue-in-cheek excuse for his project, to prevent "puppy-related sadness". Sadness caused by bad books. There's even a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzGKlOkQsxY Larry Correia is a funny, funny man and definitely on the Moron spectrum.

Recently read The Palace Job, featuring a wonderful cast of misfits. Including a randy unicorn. (there's a reason they are interested in virgins, turns out...). The main character is a bit hyper-competent but the story is enjoyable anyway. Also floating cities.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at August 28, 2016 10:54 AM (SuJIo)

176 for Civil War buffs here, a lecture on infectious disease in the Civil War is online. googly-moogly "yavapai youtube civil war diseases". It's by a moron (c'est moi). A search of the school will reveal the email address of same... for discussion.

Posted by: retropox at August 28, 2016 10:54 AM (Oe4W9)

177 Gibbon's Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire is the first of the big histories and yes he is credited as the founder of modern history. But as far as accuracy I rank him up there with the Venerable Bede. Fascinating to read but not too accurate at all. But if I was to assign a person to the father of history it would be Bede since he predated Gibbon by over a thousand years.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 10:54 AM (mpXpK)

178 Children? Laps? Storytelling? I'm in!

Posted by: Harry Reid at August 28, 2016 10:56 AM (qlPzn)

179 Posted by: A SMOF at August 28, 2016 10:48 AM (jT9wB)

that's an interesting history, thanks!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 10:56 AM (Om16U)

180 Went to 4th-8th grade at the school at B.S. (There was always something 'naughty' about calling it that.) Served three years of Christmas and Easter Midnight masses in the late 60s. Fr. Hartman directed the altar boys and you got it right back then
Posted by: John Pomeroy at August 28, 2016 10:52 AM (eoj7r)

Fellow grade school alumni! '80-'84, 5th-8th.

Another nickname (in the 80's anyway) was Our Lady of the Freeway.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 11:00 AM (0KfYo)

181 And that's one opinion, worth what you paid for it.
Posted by: A SMOF at August 28, 2016 10:48 AM (jT9wB)

Thanks, I read the whole thing, as they say.

I have no interest in science fiction, it's just not my thing, but I am interested in how humans behave, including how they assemble and disassemble.

As they always say, if you are going to kill a king, you better freakin' kill the king, because if you don't...

Seems our society has lots of kingdoms, great and small. Some have peasants storming their castles right now, and many, as we know, will not get to the king.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 11:02 AM (Pz4pT)

182 My bad - the deadline for nominating a Horde-written book for our November group read is actually this Wednesday!

Act now!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 11:02 AM (Om16U)

183 Rodney Stark, Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History and William Nicholls, Christian Antisemitism: A History of Hate

I went to one bookstore and leafed through Stark's new book. He attempts to debunk a number of antiCatholic tropes; some ancient, some recent, some long-debunked, some still maintained today.

Some facts he raises:

* among the people the Inquisition recommended to be executed were witch... burners. Where bumpkins were killing witches elsewhere in Europe, the Church stopped that in Spain and Italy.
* the New Testament and early Patristic literature were composed when the Christian population was a few dozen thousand and the Jewish population a few million. There is some anti-Jewish stuff there. At the same time the Jews had put out a lot of anti-Gospel stuff. It's hardly fair - for an honest historian - to complain about the former and ignore the latter. At any rate the Church has rarely preached the former (likewise Judaism hasn't been insulting Jesus since, I dunno, 620 AD?).
* There was exactly one recorded antiJewish pogrom in western Europe between 500 AD and 1050 AD. And this was done by a mob without the Church's involvement.
* Church leaders often intervened to protect Jews from ostensibly Christian mobs. Their influence was weak over the Rhineland.
* The "lost gospels" are bullsh!t. Stark has a good long LOL at Karen King, famed for swallowing the "Gospel of Jesus' Wife" which is fake.

I quibbled with the Gospel of Thomas, which I didn't rate as "lies" like he did - the same charge of pseudepigraphy can be leveled at other Christian literature. Since it's a sayings-collection anyway it surely had predecessors that might not have been attached to Thomas. (If Goodacre is right, we know three predecessors already: Mark, Matthew, and Luke.)

Also Catholicism as we know it - independent of major states - didn't exist until 752 AD. Before that, the Papacy was Roman and, then, Byzantine. There were some independent popes like Vigilius and Martin but guess what - the Byzantine Emperor arrested and beat 'em. So whatever the Byzantine Popes said isn't "Catholic", it's Byzantine.

Otherwise it looked like a darn good book.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:04 AM (6FqZa)

184 "WorldCon has been stumbling along, living off its
storied history and the Hugo's, but its glory years are long past. If
it actually ends, I think it will be because of financial issues, but I
think it won't end with a bang but a whimper and will linger a long time
before it happens. However, there really is no way for it to make its
way back to significance.

And that's one opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Posted by: A SMOF at August 28, 2016 10:48 AM (jT9wB)"

So it is kind of like the League of Nations which actually continued in existence until some time in the late 1940s.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 11:04 AM (gvwYn)

185 @95 Thanks, Retired Buckeye Cop. Trying not to cheat and open my copy of Killer Angels, since I haven't (re)read for years... IIRC Shaara spends time with only two Union officers, most with Chamberlain and a little with Buford. But I remember the emphasis of how important it was that Buford chose to fight where he did. Interesting that West Point agrees! .... and now I have another book on the list.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at August 28, 2016 11:04 AM (KAxVF)

186 I'm thinking of taking on a 2nd reading of Dune after nearing rage to blackout status from the next tricks our criminal overlords are planning.

Hint- linked on Drudge and involves hiking (gov't listed inflation) to allow the Fed to buy up corportate debt.

Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 11:06 AM (5HyS+)

187 AOSHQ Style Guide- A limerick

Style speaks for itself, ipse dixit
Post-modern with Gothic betwixt it
Renaissance, Romanesque
Or with gargoyles grotesque
If it ain't baroque don't try to fix it!

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at August 28, 2016 11:07 AM (wPiJc)

188 I thought I'd throw this out there:

I love the book thread and the comments that they (the threads) generate.

Not that I don't like most everything else on the blog, but the book threads always leave gifts.

So... thanks... I guess.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 28, 2016 11:07 AM (4ng05)

189 64 Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 09:09 AM (VsZJP)
Well, it's a small world isn't it?
I went to school there 5th-8th grade, not long before it was shut down.

-------------------------------------
I was there 4th through 8th several decades before it closed.

I was quite surprised when we got a new pastor (we're 350 miles away now and in a different diocese) to find out he is a year younger than I am and was at Blessed Sacrament 5-8th grades. His family lived in St Anne's. I don't remember him, but he claims to remember me.

Posted by: John Pomeroy at August 28, 2016 11:07 AM (eoj7r)

190 47 A request, if you will...

...
I would love some resources (for early teens) on Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. I'm not aiming to go deep on them yet but I'd love to hear of any books (or other resources) for this age that would introduce them to these topics. Thanks.
Posted by: dwinnorcal at August 28, 2016 09:31 AM (+5lVk)

The Teaching Company has a number of series on early Christianity. We watched this one: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/ courses/ lost-christianities-christian -scriptures-and-the -battles-over- authentication.html (remove blanks), and it was great.

Posted by: sinmi at August 28, 2016 11:08 AM (Au34L)

191 Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at August 28, 2016 11:07 AM (wPiJc)

Well, it seems like our resident poet has been at the high-class bourbon. Very classy limericks we are getting now!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 11:08 AM (Om16U)

192 But as far as accuracy I rank him up there with the
Venerable Bede. Fascinating to read but not too accurate at all. But if I
was to assign a person to the father of history it would be Bede since
he predated Gibbon by over a thousand years.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party

To true about Gibbon. If you have learned good parts of Roman history, especially as written by contemporaries of the times, then parts of Gibbon can be interesting reading (who could read the whole volume set?).
But he is, like most historians, a revisionist, picking and choosing what to write about, to create a narrative. When you are experiencing "history" as it happens, who can tell how it will all actually turn out?
The weakness of most historical writers is to try to turn a lot of disparate but connected events into a linear story that has a meaning, cha-cha-cha.
Usually the writer's meaning.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at August 28, 2016 11:08 AM (RFeQD)

193 "177
Gibbon's Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire is the first of the big
histories and yes he is credited as the founder of modern history. But
as far as accuracy I rank him up there with the Venerable Bede.
Fascinating to read but not too accurate at all. But if I was to assign a
person to the father of history it would be Bede since he predated
Gibbon by over a thousand years.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 10:54 AM (mpXpK)"

So Gibbons was to history what D.W.Griffith was to movies? Innovative with technique but a bit too blinded by his own preconceived ideas to let truth get in the way of the story he was trying to tell.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 11:10 AM (gvwYn)

194 182 ... votermom, Suggestions posted on the Goodreads group.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 11:11 AM (V+03K)

195 So then I went on to Nicholls, Christian Antisemitism: A History of Hate . By now I knew what to look for when I was looking for antiCatholic slander. Nicholls unfortunately didn't disappoint. His claim is that there is something evil within Christianity itself which makes it uniquely antiSemitic.

Nicholls does the Time Warp between the 500s and the 1000s, ignoring five whole centuries of Christian tolerance. He also waves off the context of the first two centuries of Christian - Jewish polemic.

Nicholls notices what Stark noticed about Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, that Bernard did all he could to save lives; including writing epistles of doctrine telling antisemites that they were wrong. Nicholls reads the epistles and complains that nowhere does Bernard actually say that murdering Jews is wrong on a moral level. Well come on, Nicholls. Bernard wasn't out to signal his virtue; he was out to win a rhetorical contest. "But think of the children!" is not how you argue with a rabid fanatic. The way you argue with a rabid fanatic is to sow doubt into the fanatic's core belief system. Bernard's method worked, and that's all Stark needed and - as both must admit - the Rhineland Jews agreed.

Nicholls is basically a Kevin MacDonald for antiChristians. What a tool.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:12 AM (6FqZa)

196 138, Jeff Weimer, that's a bit of history I haven't heard before. The building across 9th from the church is not a private elementary school and, I am told, one of the most expensive in the city. We get to use a part of it on the ground floor for get-togethers like "Coffee and Conversation" after mass, and the occasional celebration. And they get to use our main parking lot for kiddy drop-off because God forbid mom should let her babies walk across the street by themselves.

Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 11:12 AM (VsZJP)

197 "P.S. I don't really like the Olivier movie. It was made in 1944 and is propaganda. Accordingly the Brits must be the good guys which requires deleting the scene where Brit traitors are unmasked and deleting the references to Henry killing his prisoners."

The Kenneth Branaugh version is far superior. With a wonderful cast of the finest British character actors, stirring score and powerful performances by the leads, it portrays the down and dirty of medieval life and warfare on, what I understand, was a pretty small budget.

Posted by: Tuna at August 28, 2016 11:13 AM (JSovD)

198 "Children are made readers on the laps of their parents."
--Emilie Buchwald

Possibly the only thing we did right as parents.

Posted by: mindful webworker - turn the page, already! at August 28, 2016 11:13 AM (UE8f6)

199 Style speaks for itself, ipse dixit
Post-modern with Gothic betwixt it
Renaissance, Romanesque
Or with gargoyles grotesque
If it ain't baroque don't try to fix it!
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon

And they make such a big deal about Maya Angelou.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 11:14 AM (Nwg0u)

200
The other is "foot" which sounds like the French word for "fvck".

"Zoot?"

Posted by: freaked at August 28, 2016 11:14 AM (BO/km)

201 I picked up a set of Morison's History of the Navy in WWII a while ago because I _thought_ I had a customer interested in them. Turns out he wasn't. And they've been sitting on the shelf looking at me mournfully for 5 years because I don't want to break them up and sell them individually.

Any recommendations on if I start at Vol. 1 and read straight though to Vol. XV or pick and chose or ?

Still plowing my way through "Hopkins and Roosevelt" with a couple of days off for "Life and Death in Shangai" as mentioned earlier.

Posted by: John Pomeroy at August 28, 2016 11:14 AM (eoj7r)

202 The Kenneth Branaugh version is far superior. With a wonderful cast of the finest British character actors, stirring score and powerful performances by the leads, it portrays the down and dirty of medieval life and warfare on, what I understand, was a pretty small budget.

-
Plus the shots of the arrows in flight were cool.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 11:15 AM (Nwg0u)

203 194 182 ... votermom, Suggestions posted on the Goodreads group.
Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 11:11 AM (V+03K)

Thanks!

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 11:16 AM (Om16U)

204 193 So Gibbons was to history what D.W.Griffith was to
movies? Innovative with technique but a bit too blinded by his own
preconceived ideas to let truth get in the way of the story he was
trying to tell.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 11:10 AM (gvwYn)

To give you an idea of Gibbon's accuracy he blamed the collapse of Rome on the rise of Christianity.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:18 AM (mpXpK)

205 I just finished reading "John the Pupil" - found it somewhat unsatisfying. It's too short. The trick of its pretending to be a found, fragmentary manuscript seems to mask the author's unwillingness to write a really good book. This could have been a better book.
That being said, anyone with an interest in the High Middle Ages will find it interesting. As an Orthodox Christian, I was particularly interested in his depiction of medieval religious practice in the West; only two hundred years after the Great Schism, it seems much closer to what I know than does modern Roman Catholicism, e.g. the Wednesday and Friday fasts.

Posted by: Miss Sippi at August 28, 2016 11:18 AM (ByoS/)

206 bth -- It took me a while to learn that miscreants of any type preferred the ecclesiastical courts to the brutality of the other ruling classes. In a nod to current 'theology' it would be equivalent to criminals now negotiating to get a Federal criminal charge rather than a State charge. If a lawyer can score a Federal probation or prison time, odds are that the defendant will survive. Not so much a State charge.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 28, 2016 11:21 AM (MIKMs)

207 "To give you an idea of Gibbon's accuracy he blamed the collapse of Rome on the rise of Christianity.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:18 AM (mpXpK)"

Well, that only makes sense. After all, Christians caused the collapse of the Aztec empire and if that was not bad enough, they suppressed the religion of the Aztecs.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at August 28, 2016 11:21 AM (gvwYn)

208 Update: It has always been a library. Thanks to the many morons for the correction.)
Gothic Revival, mo-fo, do you speak it?

Posted by: Jules at August 28, 2016 11:22 AM (LdMbv)

209 The Great Courses has a three set series on the Middle, High, and Late Middle Ages. It's not specifically about Christianity, but it does cover a decent amount of Christian development during that period because much of what happens doesn't make sense unless you do. The lecturer is good and every once in awhile offers some funny asides.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 28, 2016 10:28 AM (Ee2nz)

Just saw this response from WOPR-N. We love, love, *love* these series!

Posted by: sinmi at August 28, 2016 11:22 AM (Au34L)

210 Mmm. Bacon.

Posted by: homer simpson at August 28, 2016 11:23 AM (LdMbv)

211 Thanks for the review, boulder terlit hobo, 183 - I hadn't decided whether or not to buy "Bearing False Witness" but now I think I will.

Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 11:26 AM (VsZJP)

212 Update: It has always been a library. Thanks to the many morons for the correction.)
------------------------------
Gothic Revival, mo-fo, do you speak it?
Posted by: Jules at August 28, 2016 11:22 AM (LdMbv)

Well it looks like it SHOULD have been a Church, so I feel your original statement is more truthy. Fake, but accurate, as they say.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 11:26 AM (Pz4pT)

213 Re: Gibbon and Roman history, here's a plug for a client's book that, while very niche-nerdy on several levels, makes a clear case for the Empire's finances being in trouble by the mid-200s AD, if not before: Monuments in Miniature: Architecture on Roman Coinage by Nathan T. Elkins. I'm not a hardcore classicist or numismatist, but I found it fascinating.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at August 28, 2016 11:27 AM (m2sZd)

214

WINNERS: 2015 Chesley Awards

http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2015/08/winners-2015-chesley-awards/

http://asfa-art.org/

art and illustration for sci-fi

10 must-have books for sci-fi and fantasy artists

Whether you're a concept artist, illustrator or art director, you need inspirational art books in your life.

http://bit.ly/1FHqaKV

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 11:27 AM (qCMvj)

215 To give you an idea of Gibbon's accuracy he blamed the collapse of Rome on the rise of Christianity.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:18 AM (mpXpK)

That is incorrect.

He wrote that Christianity was a contributor to the fall, but he never claimed that it caused it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 11:27 AM (Zu3d9)

216 I'm re-reading The Bronx is Burning, which covers New York City during 1977, a year of peak mayhem.

The city is broke. Whole neighborhoods in Brooklyn and The Bronx are crumbling from crime, arson and white flight. The Yankees are winning, when they're not beating on each other in the clubhouse. A popular Daily News columnist becomes the public contact for a serial killer who targets young women and calls himself the Son of Sam. When the lights go out in a city-wide blackout, mass looting breaks out. And there's a free-for-all political race to replace the hapless mayor, Abe Beame, with a flamboyant cast of characters including Mario Cuomo, feminist Bella Abzug, the king of Harlem Percy Sutton, and an unknown guy from the Village who looked a lot like Big Bird, Ed Koch. Vote for Cuomo, not the Homo, indeed.

Must reading if you want to understand how big cities decline, and what leftism can bring.

Koch brought a modicum of sanity. The Reagan boom especially lifted the boats of Wall Street, which fixed NYC's finances. After the Dinkins interregnum, NYC had 20 years of moderate Republican and quasi-Republican rule and now stands as the only large US city with low crime.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 28, 2016 11:28 AM (bQxkN)

217 215 He wrote that Christianity was a contributor to the fall, but he never claimed that it caused it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 11:27 AM (Zu3d9)

My recollect was that he called it the major cause.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:31 AM (mpXpK)

218 204
To give you an idea of Gibbon's accuracy he blamed the collapse of Rome on the rise of Christianity.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:18 AM (mpXpK)

I looked up Will and Ariel Durant's books on Wikipedia and found the following quote:

"Rome was not destroyed by Christianity, any more than by barbarian invasion; it was an empty shell when Christianity rose to influence and invasion came."

Substitute "America" or Western Civilization" for "Rome"; substitute "Islam" for "Christianity", and substitute "Mexicans" for "barbarians", and here we are.

Posted by: rickl at August 28, 2016 11:31 AM (sdi6R)

219 Posted by: Tonestaple at August 28, 2016 11:12 AM (VsZJP)

It *was* the church school. There was the name and date (1950 - the year the new school building was erected) engraved in the gray stone near the door there on the 9th street level. It appears to be gone now, from looking at Street View. The green and brick building to the right is new. The green part was open space between the school buildings, the brick portion is on the site of the "old" school building and playground behind it. The lower level behind the school building near Roosevelt used to be all parking lot.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 11:32 AM (0KfYo)

220 He wrote that Christianity was a contributor to the fall, but he never claimed that it caused it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 11:27 AM (Zu3d9)

My recollect was that he called it the major cause.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:31 AM (mpXpK)

Some contributors are more equal than others.

For example, the systematic removal of Christianity from the public square... contributor to the decline and fall of the American Empire, but the cause?

Seems to me the place to quibble is in the word "the."

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 11:36 AM (Pz4pT)

221 My recollect was that he called it the major cause.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:31 AM (mpXpK)

He suggested that Christianity shifted the Roman psyche away from its traditional martial spirit. But he also said that there were many other reasons for the decline, including the decadence of imperial Rome, the Praetorian Guard's influence (he hated them), and lots of other stuff.

The Empire grew until about 400 AD, so the rise of Christianity is certainly correlated, but the primary cause? Probably not.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 11:36 AM (Zu3d9)

222

Turn Off Your TV, Read A Book, Live Longer?

http://acculturated.com/turn-off-tv-read-book-live-longer/

sure, why not?

...The irony? A research study at Yale University found that people who read books have longer lifespans. In fact, "book readers experienced a 20 percent reduction in risk of mortality over the 12 years of follow-up compared to non-book readers." The effect was marked enough ( on average, book readers lived almost two years longer ) that the researchers declared that books offer "a significant survival advantage."

A closer look at the numbers suggests that either everyone's given up their hobbies in favor of consuming media or that people are just working less ( or sleeping less ), because not only has consumption of video content and time spent online increased, book buying has also increased annually during the last few years too.

Then again, buying a book and reading a book are two different things. There is a word in Japanese, tsundoku, which refers to "people who buy books and let them pile up, unread." If you're one of these people, you're not alone (there are even support groups for book hoarders ). The bad news is that unless you actually read the books, you won't extend your life.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 28, 2016 11:37 AM (qCMvj)

223 "Rome was not destroyed by Christianity, any more than by barbarian invasion; it was an empty shell when Christianity rose to influence and invasion came."

Outside the Greek heartland, sure. But the secular authority of the Byzantine Rhomania was strong enough to hold its empire until Manzikert. This was a long, long time.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:37 AM (6FqZa)

224 218 ... rickl, I like your comparison. The difference is the Romans didn't INVITE the barbarians to invade.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 11:38 AM (V+03K)

225 Wow, quoted in an Ace o' Spades article, I life long dream comes true!

I'm an avid reader, but I actually had to take a break from reading at the conclusion of "When Breath Becomes Air." Probably the most profound and heartbreaking book I have ever read. Highest recommendation.

You know, I've just been taking it easy and taking stock of my life. Trying to stop and smell the roses. Have a great day, fellow morons.

Posted by: Max Power at August 28, 2016 11:39 AM (QCc6B)

226 The difference is the Romans didn't INVITE the barbarians to invade.

*shifty eyes*

Posted by: emperor Valens, from somewhere near Edirne at August 28, 2016 11:40 AM (6FqZa)

227 This was a long, long time.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:37 AM (6FqZa)

It was indeed.

Hell....Constantinople didn't fall until the 15th century.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 11:46 AM (Zu3d9)

228 rickl, I like your comparison. The difference is the Romans didn't INVITE the barbarians to invade.

-
The Battle of Adrianople is often cited as the beginning of the end of the western Roman Empire. From Wikipedia:

Battle of Adrianople
In 376 the East faced an enormous barbarian influx across the Danube, mostly Goths who were refugees from the Huns. They were exploited by corrupt officials rather than effectively resettled, and they took up arms, joined by more Goths and by some Alans and Huns. Valens was in Asia with his main field army, preparing for an assault on the Persians, and redirecting the army and its logistic support would have required time. Gratian's armies were distracted by Germanic invasions across the Rhine. In 378 Valens attacked the invaders with the Eastern field army, perhaps some 20,000 men - possibly only 10% of the soldiers nominally available in the Danube provinces[56] - and in the Battle of Adrianople, 9 August 378, he lost much of that army and his own life.

The more things change . . . .

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 11:47 AM (Nwg0u)

229 The more things change . . . .
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 11:47 AM (Nwg0u)

You know I just totally thought of something, and never heard anyone ever say before: Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Feel free to use it yourselves. No charge. Because I'm a giver.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 11:50 AM (Pz4pT)

230 Hey Anonosaurus Wrecks, it's not funny if you explain the joke!

But yeah, what he said.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:52 AM (6FqZa)

231 I am boring in hammering on this one, but some economists, especially Jesus Huerta de Soto, claim the collapse of Roman Empire was caused by the state subsidizing the bread and circuses, having to both bring in wheat from Egypt where it was grown far cheaper than could be grown in Italy, increasing taxes to support the free grain (and conquering Europe to provide income as well causing over-extension), and debased the currency at the same time.

This drove the Italian growers out of the wheat business, drove the estates into "cashless" subsistence production to avoid massive taxation that was done in currency, and on the way destroyed the empire-wide economic interrelations that were the basis of the unity of the empire. When that broke up, there was no coordination, just small regional interests and the bundle of sticks that had been the Roman society were broken one-by-one.

You might look up his article "Socialism and Decivilization"

I have done some research to see if the facts were as stated, and pretty much they were. The interpretation follows the facts as they are presented.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 11:52 AM (ry34m)

232 First off thanks to Oregon Muse for another excellent thread. With Pournelle I am reminded of 'Go Tell the Spartans' where the CoDo tries to destroy the Spartan colony. Helots rule ya dig they thought until Falken berg's mercenaries supporting a strong king put them down like the mad dogs they were.

Voter Mom thanks.

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 28, 2016 11:52 AM (Y2VBD)

233 221 He suggested that Christianity shifted the Roman
psyche away from its traditional martial spirit. But he also said that
there were many other reasons for the decline, including the decadence
of imperial Rome, the Praetorian Guard's influence (he hated them), and
lots of other stuff.

The Empire grew until about 400 AD, so the rise of Christianity is certainly correlated, but the primary cause? Probably not.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 11:36 AM (Zu3d9)

Perhaps "major cause" is not the right wording. More accurate is the root cause. He said the rise of Christianity caused a loss of civic virtue because citizens became more involved with the "after life" than the current life in the Roman nation. That supposed attitude led to the lack of support for the military and government.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 11:52 AM (mpXpK)

234 229
You know I just totally thought of something, and never heard anyone ever say before: Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 11:50 AM (Pz4pT)

Or as I like to say, "Those who DO learn from history are doomed to repeat it anyway, because those who don't are in the majority."

Posted by: rickl at August 28, 2016 11:53 AM (sdi6R)

235 Hey Anonosaurus Wrecks, it's not funny if you explain the joke!

-
It makes you wonder who composed the Globe Theater audiences. What percentage of the English population were sufficiently proficient in French profanity to get the joke? Or was it an inside joke intended for only a few?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 11:55 AM (Nwg0u)

236 I find it absolutely fascinating that there are (at least) 3 fellow Morons with connections to the same Parish, and a relatively small one at that. What are the odds?

And it all came about because of the way a library was built.

I bet all three of us said to ourselves "Huh, that looks like my church, which just happens to be nearby and built around the same time".

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 11:55 AM (0KfYo)

237 Posted by: Anna Puma at August 28, 2016 11:52 AM (Y2VBD)

The Falkenberg's Legion books are all great fun!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 28, 2016 11:56 AM (Zu3d9)

238 Kindltot : and when the citizenry had become dependent on muh social services, and the Empire could no longer deliver, the citizens turned to private deliverers of social services. The best of these proved to be the Church.

The Church "became worthy", as the Moldbuggers put it, and when the state outside Anatolia collapsed the Church was left standing.

/that's just my theory

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:56 AM (6FqZa)

239 For the longest time, the English court spoke French. Don't know when the changeover happened, but it may explain Shakespeare's inside joke in Henry V.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 28, 2016 11:59 AM (bQxkN)

240 You know I just totally thought of something, and never heard anyone ever say before: Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 11:50 AM (Pz4pT)

Or as I like to say, "Those who DO learn from history are doomed to repeat it anyway, because those who don't are in the majority."
Posted by: rickl at August 28, 2016 11:53 AM (sdi6R)

As the aforementioned Bill O'really might say: Mine's more pithy.

Unlike O'really though, yours is probably more accurate.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 11:59 AM (Pz4pT)

241 It makes you wonder who composed the Globe Theater
audiences. What percentage of the English population were sufficiently
proficient in French profanity to get the joke? Or was it an inside joke
intended for only a few?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 28, 2016 11:55 AM (Nwg0u)

He would have been playing to both the groundlings and the gentry in the boxes. That is why there is a range of jokes from slapstic-fart gags to high end poetry on classical themes, and of course, characters like Bottom who strove to be classy and missed by a mile.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 11:59 AM (ry34m)

242 The difference is the Romans didn't INVITE the barbarians to invade.

And we haven't had some fey emperor who made his horse Secretary of State! So I think we're safe for a while.

Posted by: t-bird at August 28, 2016 12:00 PM (w35Hj)

243 230 Hey Anonosaurus Wrecks, it's not funny if you explain the joke!
But yeah, what he said.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:52 AM (6FqZa)

IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE POINTING OUT THE EXPLANATION OF THE JOKE IS ALSO AN EXPLANATION OF THE JOKE.

Posted by: Ben Roethlisberger at August 28, 2016 12:00 PM (e3H8Y)

244 I thought Rome fell because of a chain of events that began with the empire expansion costs (culture and financial) of taming the foreigners which lead to skyrocketing inflation (a collapsing of the economy) (Roman coins dated after 300AD that were only 10% silver).

After the house of cards began to fall there was no stopping it.

Segway into the news from the overloards out of Jackson Hole this weekend and their plans plus the collapsing housing out of Aspen/Hamptoms/Miami.

Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 12:01 PM (5HyS+)

245 On the fall of the Roman Empire - success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

I think one of the absentee parents in this case may be institution of slavery, as it led to a jobless underclass, which is never good.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 12:02 PM (Om16U)

246
And we haven't had some fey emperor who made his horse Secretary of State!

Neigh

Posted by: John Kerry at August 28, 2016 12:02 PM (IqV8l)

247 238 The Church "became worthy", as the Moldbuggers put
it, and when the state outside Anatolia collapsed the Church was left
standing.

/that's just my theory

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 11:56 AM (6FqZa)

The latest theory was the loss of the wheat regions in Northern Africa caused them to be unable to pay the Army and maintain the subsidized food for the population of Rome the city. This led to desertion of the barbarians who had been recruited into the Army. The local cities in Gaul and Great Britain provided their own armies and defense and gradually separated from Rome. Over time these city States became countries with their own "kings". There was no "massive collapse of the empire, only a gradual separation.

If the US decided to hold an Art V convention and the results of Constitutional changes could not be agreed on and instead we separated into 4 or 5 new countries by region it would be a similar event.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:03 PM (mpXpK)

248 He would have been playing to both the groundlings and the gentry in the boxes. That is why there is a range of jokes from slapstic-fart gags to high end poetry on classical themes, and of course, characters like Bottom who strove to be classy and missed by a mile.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 11:59 AM (ry34m)

Exactly. What Shakespeare wanted to do more than anything else was make a buck. He could give a f* about "art". It's fun pointing this out to the artsy-fartsy, white-wine-and-brie types.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 12:04 PM (e3H8Y)

249 Segway into the news from the overloards out of Jackson Hole this weekend and their plans plus the collapsing housing out of Aspen/Hamptoms/Miami.
Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 12:01 PM (5HyS+)

Yep, the answer to Japan's problem apparently, is MOAR IMMIGRATION!

These people aren't even trying to conceal their evil plans. They're not making money fast enough, so YOU will suffer as a result. The beatings shall continue until morale improves.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 28, 2016 12:06 PM (Pz4pT)

250 If the US decided to hold an Art V convention and the results of Constitutional changes could not be agreed on and instead we separated into 4 or 5 new countries by region it would be a similar event.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:03 PM (mpXpK)

Don't you think those 4-5 countries would still be balkinized because of Immigration policies, the red-blue county effect, and Urban vs the rest?

Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 12:07 PM (5HyS+)

251 What's interesting about the Hugos thing is that new authors are very aware that they have turned into a political nightmare and are disinterested in even being part of the SFWA. These are apolitical types just trying to write and sell books, who don't care about pushing an agenda... but they have heard the rumors and the buzz in the writing community is Hugos suck.

So yay the SJW's won... but nobody cares. They have their little show they can all echo around in and be incestuous with but nobody else wants any part of it.

All those old organizations are dinosaurs anyway. New writers are bypassing the gatekeepers.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 12:07 PM (39g3+)

252 If the US decided to hold an Art V convention and the results of Constitutional changes could not be agreed on and instead we separated into 4 or 5 new countries by region it would be a similar event.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:03 PM (mpXpK)

Which, come to think of, is exactly what would probably happen. The national Art V convention would be immediately hijacked by rat bastard progressives and we'd get homo rights and safe spaces and unisex bathroom rights and save-the-earf rights baked into the new national constitution. So the only recourse would be regional withdrawal and independence.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 28, 2016 12:09 PM (e3H8Y)

253 Is there any way that Rome could have avoided becoming an Empire that collapses and still be a world power?

Or I guess my question is - are there any real-life models of stable empires?

China?

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 12:09 PM (Om16U)

254 It was shocking to me in high school reading the annotated version of Romeo and Juliet that we had for a lit class. It had explanations of what all the jokes were and the innuendo etc that the crowd would get. Its more Farrelly Brothers than Masterpiece Theater. Much better written, of course. But lots of really raunchy humor and stuff targeted at the audience of the day, rather than trying to write "high art."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 12:10 PM (39g3+)

255 Don't you think those 4-5 countries would still be
balkinized because of Immigration policies, the red-blue county effect,
and Urban vs the rest?

Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 12:07 PM (5HyS+)

The old US would be "Balkinized" so to speak into separate countries. I suspect a LOT of the "urban" dwellers in the Southern country would move to the North or the West. But the separation would have already been along the lines of the States that had enough "red citizens" to outweigh the "blues" would have the policies that they wanted and those States would congregate together into Red countries. .

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:11 PM (mpXpK)

256 Yeah, China has been pretty stable, except for the internal bloodbaths they have every so often.

Posted by: rickl at August 28, 2016 12:11 PM (sdi6R)

257 253 Is there any way that Rome could have avoided becoming an Empire that collapses and still be a world power?

Or I guess my question is - are there any real-life models of stable empires?

China?
Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 12:09 PM (Om16U)

Stability through violence and force. That has been the only way so far.

Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 12:12 PM (5HyS+)

258 nood

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:14 PM (mpXpK)

259 Is there any way that Rome could have avoided becoming an Empire that collapses and still be a world power?

In theory, yes. They could have maintained the traditions and virtues that built their empire and gave them strength. They could have moved away from relying oceans of slaves to prop up small groups of powerful Romans. But the real world being what it is... it is inevitable that all empires fall, eventually.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 12:14 PM (39g3+)

260 255 Don't you think those 4-5 countries would still be
balkinized because of Immigration policies, the red-blue county effect,
and Urban vs the rest?

Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 12:07 PM (5HyS+)

The old US would be "Balkinized" so to speak into separate countries. I suspect a LOT of the "urban" dwellers in the Southern country would move to the North or the West. But the separation would have already been along the lines of the States that had enough "red citizens" to outweigh the "blues" would have the policies that they wanted and those States would congregate together into Red countries. .
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:11 PM (mpXpK

That would be an interesting event to observe.

Posted by: Pepe at August 28, 2016 12:14 PM (5HyS+)

261 *yawns*

Late to the thread.

I'm reading Dana Loesch's Flyover Nation: You can't Run a Country You've Never Been To. I enjoyed her interview on C-SPAN Book TV mentioned by a Hordeling last week:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?409992-1/words-dana-loesch

It's as much a personal account of her life growing up in rural Missouri as it is an observation of the disconnect between coastal/urban elites and the great unwashed.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 28, 2016 12:15 PM (jR7Wy)

262 Boulder Terlit Hobo, I find it compelling that the roots of the Catholic church appear to be in part from the Mithras societies, that were essentially secret society/affinity groups, that could hold together outside of the decaying societal ties. In fact they seemed to act as a workaround for disfunctional societal ties which seems to be the reason they came to prominence.

A lot of the early churches, I understand, tended to be isolate and millennial in outlook as they were expecting the second coming and the new millennium #twoweeks at best, and since they were the elect, they didn't do much outreach. And in this way they were echoing the breakdown of the Empire.
Once a lot of them were pared away, through conversion or failure, there was more networking.

I don't know Moldbugger's argument, but on the face of it I would disagree. (I'm a functionalist in outlook) It might be that the church survived <u>because</u> it became more worthy. It served a purpose outside of holding, say, 50 parishioners together in a close farming community and became meaningful enough to defend.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 12:16 PM (ry34m)

263 If the US decided to hold an Art V convention and
the results of Constitutional changes could not be agreed on and instead
we separated into 4 or 5 new countries by region it would be a similar
event.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:03 PM (mpXpK)
But it would not, I hope, occasion the sort of crisis within the Church that would require someone like Max Lucado to write a treatise akin to Augustine's City of God--not least because we still *have* City of God, a book that I would have thought would put paid to Gibbon's theory, as would allll the patristic sermons admonishing upper-class Romans for continuing to live exactly like their Roman neighbors. John Chrysostom yelled at his congregation about going to the theater and the stadium fairly frequently, at least in what I've read of his sermons.

That said, another plug, this time for a book that's just come out and is thus still on my to-read list: Destroyer of the Gods: Early Christian Distinctiveness in the Roman World by Larry Hurtado.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at August 28, 2016 12:16 PM (m2sZd)

264 That would be an interesting event to observe.

I don't think it's that far out. Fiscally, we're about where the Soviet Union was in 1987, and cracks in the social crust are appearing everywhere.

Posted by: V the K at August 28, 2016 12:17 PM (jn7FC)

265 Posted by: Lizzy at August 28, 2016 09:23 AM (NOIQH)

I did that as well -- back in the day -- and it was great. I don't know what access is now.

I went to GU and the library when I went was newish and nothing to write home around architecturally. However, I had my own carrel and it overlooked the Potomac and I was very happy working there. Grad school at night -- so nice view.

Posted by: gracepc at August 28, 2016 12:20 PM (OU4q6)

266 You know I just totally thought of something, and never heard anyone
ever say before: Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to
repeat it.

Posted by: Amy Schumer at August 28, 2016 12:29 PM (gvwYn)

267 Thanks to OM for another great book thread. They are always the best of Ace, but this week's has been especially good. The list of books and topics to check out is longer than usual. (Like I needed more books to read!!)

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 12:33 PM (V+03K)

268 "If the US decided to hold an Art V convention and
the results of Constitutional changes could not be agreed on and instead
we separated into 4 or 5 new countries by region it would be a similar
event.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 28, 2016 12:03 PM (mpXpK)"

Is there any way I could hurry that process along? Oh, by the way, do any of you guys want nukes?

Posted by: Vladimir Putin at August 28, 2016 12:34 PM (gvwYn)

269 Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to
repeat it.
Posted by: Amy Schumer

IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE AMY SCHUMER RIPS STUFF OFF.

Posted by: Ben Roethlisberger at August 28, 2016 12:34 PM (6FqZa)

270 I know the Peter Kreeft books get good reviews on Amazon. Is there one of his books that would be good to get started with?

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 12:36 PM (V+03K)

271 236 I find it absolutely fascinating that there are (at least) 3 fellow Morons with connections to the same Parish, and a relatively small one at that. What are the odds?

And it all came about because of the way a library was built.

I bet all three of us said to ourselves "Huh, that looks like my church, which just happens to be nearby and built around the same time".

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 11:55 AM (0KfYo)

----------------------------------------

Speaking of connections, are you related to the Weimers in the SE corner of the state?

Posted by: John Pomeroy at August 28, 2016 12:37 PM (eoj7r)

272 259 Is there any way that Rome could have avoided becoming an Empire that collapses and still be a world power?

In theory, yes. They could have maintained the traditions and virtues that built their empire and gave them strength. They could have moved away from relying oceans of slaves to prop up small groups of powerful Romans. But the real world being what it is... it is inevitable that all empires fall, eventually.

-
Man being what he is. I think they call that original sin.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at August 28, 2016 12:40 PM (2aCQN)

273 my library growing up was destroyed to replace with an ugly new modern thing, It had a bell that i could hear when we would drive into town .. anyway modern ugly boring replacment.

on New topics what about old photos with history, not just libraries which is awesome in itself but national parks etc?
i had found our national parks old photos not to long ago and thought it could be another part of history to jump off of.
world parks or..?
this one for ours was nice..https://digg.com/2016/national-park-service-100?utm_so

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 12:41 PM (A1MMY)

274 The one fact that gets overlooked in this Red State/Blue State paradigm is that there are some blue -staters who live in red states and a LOT of red staters who live in blue. Take a state like NJ (please). There are a lot of red state types, but the 5 or 6 big urban cities push it into the blue column. If we ever split up, you would think that the urban cities would still dominate the state, but these big cities would have no power without the overarching Federal government, and would be ripe for a takedown.

Posted by: JoeF. at August 28, 2016 12:41 PM (yBrep)

275 Speaking of connections, are you related to the Weimers in the SE corner of the state?
Posted by: John Pomeroy at August 28, 2016 12:37 PM (eoj7r)

Not that I'm aware of. My family is in the Seattle area, moved there from Greeley/CO Springs, CO.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 12:42 PM (0KfYo)

276 JTB, I'm not super familiar with Kreeft's books myself (although I have heard him speak and liked him), but Between Heaven and Hell is one of his classics: a conversation between C. S. Lewis, Aldous Huxley, and JFK occasioned by their all having died on the same day.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at August 28, 2016 12:44 PM (m2sZd)

277 They didn't rip down the library in town to build the new building, they moved it from a small building into a brand new one paid for by the Carnegie foundation. Its a hideous concrete block structure with orange and purple highlights in paint.

If you've ever seen the 1970s film Lathe of Heaven you know what it looks like. But its big enough for all the books and I guess that's what matters.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 12:44 PM (39g3+)

278 He would have been playing to both the groundlings and the gentry in the boxes. That is why there is a range of jokes from slapstic-fart gags to high end poetry on classical themes, and of course, characters like Bottom who strove to be classy and missed by a mile.

-
Much like the HQ itself.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at August 28, 2016 12:45 PM (2aCQN)

279 Quick read the whole thread.
My take is O'Reilly is by profession a history teacher, the books are by all accounts shallow in their telling. So its easy for me to believe he does write a lot of it.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 12:45 PM (0G2eQ)

280 Late. Usually can't get here til noon.

Having a hard time finding something that sticks. It's most likely me and not the book. Usually read history, non fiction, bios. For diversion mysteries, detective.

I think recs from here Ross King, Leonardo and the Last Supper and Michaelangelo and the Pope's Ceiling. I suspect they are ok, could not get into them. Self published, first time author, Still Alice by Lisa Genova. Fiction but composite of people or persons known. 50ish Harvard psych prof develops early Alzheimer. I was interested so it was a fast read. And also, Alex Segura, journo, detective , Miami based. Silent City or Down the Darkest Street. Kind of noir. Read Silent City and liked it. Not great but kept my attention. Also on deck CS Lewis a Grief Observed. Someone mentioned Letters, vol 1 and 2 available on Kindle last week $1.99 will check that out.

Thanks guys. I am going to read through thread and see if something grabs my attention. Interested in all things Russia and Asia. Someone might have mentioned a series, one of which is Red Kremlin I think. Ring a bell?

Posted by: gracepc at August 28, 2016 12:47 PM (OU4q6)

281 Well, by the fourth century the transnational "Roman" elite deemed Italy's industrial base too weak relative to other parts of the Mediterranean to sustain an empire. I have to agree with Constantine here.

Constantinople perhaps could have held onto the empire, but they needed better ships and more time (to convert Latin-speaking provinces to Greek-speaking provinces). They didn't get that time.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 12:49 PM (6FqZa)

282 Christopher, i hate old buildings being destroyed unless it is necessary. i truly love going places (online and looking at old architecture). i understand there is only so much room in urbanville, but i hate the long ago past being erased .

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 12:49 PM (A1MMY)

283 I'm mixed on old buildings. I love well constructed, interesting architecture, but a lot of cities are so fixated on history they keep crap up just because its from 100 years ago or more.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 12:56 PM (39g3+)

284 christopher of course ii agree with that, if it is inferior, not a sound structure, not aesthetically pleasing on any level, but that whole replace old shit because old, i feel old buildings in general were built much sturdier than what we habitate in now for the most part. look at how our modern track homes are built.

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 12:59 PM (A1MMY)

285 ugh, nooooo

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 01:01 PM (A1MMY)

286 I've been trying to clean up my the backlog in my Kindle. I get the daily offers from Book Bub and if something sounds good I usually spring for it. I just finished Alan Dean Foster's " Icerigger" trilogy. It was ok. The idea of a world where flat bottomed boats sail across frozen seas was interesting but the author could have done some character development. Lots of tantalizing bits of info dropped about characters' histories that were never explained. Frustrating. All in all, not as entertaining as his "Taken" trilogy.

Posted by: Tuna at August 28, 2016 01:02 PM (JSovD)

287 285 ugh, nooooo
Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 01:01 PM (A1MMY)

What happened, you came in to kill a thread, again?

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 01:02 PM (0KfYo)

288
Jack Campbell has written a series of "military SF" novels that are good read. Only a little SJW content (superchicks) but no LBGTQ stuff.

I'm presently reading "An Unpardonable Crime" by Andrew Taylor. Some reviewers compare it to Wilkie Collins "The Moonstone".

Posted by: Frankly at August 28, 2016 01:04 PM (VoEsM)

289 Jeff, i suppose i have one memorable function in life.

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 01:05 PM (A1MMY)

290 289 Jeff, i suppose i have one memorable function in life.
Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 01:05 PM (A1MMY)

You have your own *term* here. That's.....epic.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at August 28, 2016 01:07 PM (0KfYo)

291 "Jack Campbell has written a series of "military SF" novels that are good read. Only a little SJW content (superchicks) but no LBGTQ stuff. "

I try avoid the SF novels with the superchick characters. Competent women..yes, superchicks..no.

Posted by: Tuna at August 28, 2016 01:07 PM (JSovD)

292 Love the history thread; we should have more of this sort of thing.

Posted by: Libra at August 28, 2016 01:09 PM (GblmV)

293 Jeff, i know, i am used as an adjective, a noun, a verb, but sheesh!

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2016 01:09 PM (A1MMY)

294 I know that Constantinople ended the gladitorial games, and they were replaced by the chariot racing. Did they do away with the grain dole as well?

Posted by: Kindltot at August 28, 2016 01:09 PM (ry34m)

295 120
For goodreads or goodreads-curious horde:

do we get our own bathroom?

Posted by: Anachronda at August 28, 2016 01:15 PM (Oi5b2)

296 Kindltot, no, there was still a FSA in Constantinople. The "Nika Riots" were a case in point.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 01:20 PM (6FqZa)

297 If you've ever seen the 1970s film Lathe of Heaven you know what it looks like. But its big enough for all the books and I guess that's what matters.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 12:44 PM (39g3+)
---
I saw this again recently and it's held up fairly well for a lowish-budget production (high for PBS, of course).

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 28, 2016 01:22 PM (jR7Wy)

298 I used to enjoy reading books about women that kick ass or surprise the guys. Now I'm frankly sick of it. People keep trotting that out as if its surprising and fresh, a new twist! Look, for once the woman is super capable!

Except after the 8 billionth time over 20 years, its about as fresh as a mustache-twirling bad guy tying a girl to the railroad tracks.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 01:27 PM (39g3+)

299 Finishing " Witness" by Whitaker Chambers. Must read.

Posted by: buckeye at August 28, 2016 01:28 PM (qgBRl)

300 The jocks are stompin' on the book thread!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 28, 2016 01:29 PM (jR7Wy)

301 Glad I mentioned the scene in French in Henry V, will have to read it again, for the 'culture'.

Posted by: waelse1 at August 28, 2016 01:31 PM (w3VUi)

302 276 ... Elisabeth, Thanks for the suggestion on the Kreeft book. Certainly that day is vivid in my memory.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 01:32 PM (V+03K)

303 For goodreads or goodreads-curious horde:

do we get our own bathroom?

Posted by: Anachronda at August 28, 2016 01:15 PM (Oi5b2)

We are ethereal spirits of the air - we do not have bodily functions.

Posted by: @votermom at August 28, 2016 01:36 PM (Om16U)

304 The book I recommend most of CS Lewis for new readers is God in the Docks. Its a series of short essays, little talks and articles on a variety of topics that I think is excellent.

I'm currently reading Why the God-Man? (Cur Deus Homo) by Anselm. Written in the 1100s, its considered the definitive book on the incarnation and the translation I have is nice and easy to read. Written in a dialog form (question and answer between Anselm and Boso), its a pretty simple format that covers things very well starting at the basics.

It is also useful in the sense of CS Lewis' admonition that we read old books to find their cultural flaws, so we can learn our own. At the time at least, it was standard Roman Catholic doctrine that some Christians will become angels to replace the ones that fell away in rebellion under Satan.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 01:40 PM (39g3+)

305 244
Segway into the news from the overloards out of Jackson Hole this
weekend and their plans plus the collapsing housing out of
Aspen/Hamptoms/Miami.

Did somebody say something about Segways running into things?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmLLGYn9Fo8

Posted by: Anachronda at August 28, 2016 01:46 PM (Oi5b2)

306 Christopher, Thanks for mentioning the Saint Anselm book. I figure I'm about half a century behind in reading and learning about Christianity. Just downloaded the 99 cent ebook to get started.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 01:50 PM (V+03K)

307 I also have On the Incarnation by Athanasius queued up, but that one looks a bit deeper and more difficult to read.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 01:58 PM (39g3+)

308 Not sure who recommended Demolition Angel a while back, but many thanks to whoever that was. Not as good in my opinion as Two Minute Rule, but that is a pretty high bar to meet. Robert Crais has a knack for interesting characters to be sure.

Posted by: Charlotte at August 28, 2016 02:03 PM (hBviP)

309 I try avoid the SF novels with the superchick characters. Competent women..yes, superchicks..no.

Elizabeth Moon delivers for that. I recommend Trading in Danger.

Asimov wasn't bad at female protagonists either: Susan Calvin; Bayta Darell; Arkady Darell (I liked her best).

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 02:12 PM (6FqZa)

310 94 91 JTB, Amazon has a brick and mortar store here at U Village shopping center in Seattle. As I walked past it with a friend, I said "Isn't it ironic that after so many brick and mortar bookstores closed down because of Amazon, they built one themselves?!"
Posted by: runningrn at August 28, 2016 10:04 AM (sUP4M)

It's not ironic - it's planned. Jeff Bezos would have made a credible world conqueror if he had not decide to go into business instead.
Votermom

I have a night in Seattle coming up before flying out to the states. Maybe a visit is in order?

Posted by: Charlotte at August 28, 2016 02:12 PM (hBviP)

311 The Amazon bookstore isn't about a new empire, its about info gathering. They use the store to get info about customers. That's all Amazon is. They started as a bookstore just to get customers, but their product is demographics, shopping habits, etc. That's what they gather and sell. They just happen to do so by selling other products through their site.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 28, 2016 02:15 PM (39g3+)

312 294 I know that Constantinople ended the gladitorial games, and they were replaced by the chariot racing. Did they do away with the grain dole as well?

---

My understanding is that Constantinople didn't really 'end' gladiatorial games, because those sort of games never took hold in the Greek world, even when under Roman rule...But I think they did set up the grain dole. Because that was part of the way Rome was governed, I guess...

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 28, 2016 02:16 PM (7aeqx)

313 I enjoyed both Cur Deus Homo (a slightly modified version of which is summarized in Mere Christianity) and On the Incarnation, which you may find more accessible after having read Cur Deus Homo than you would have if you'd tried to read it first. Two other works about the Incarnation from the patristic era that I've taught in my Christian Lit class are Augustine's On Christian Doctrine and Gregory Nazianzen's Theological Orations.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at August 28, 2016 02:17 PM (m2sZd)

314 Castle Guy, there's a "book of the prefect" floating around, which details how the Byzantine Emperors ran the economy of Constantinople. It's attributed to Leo the Wise.

I am not sure because I've not actually read it, but this looks like a good primary source that should cover that sort of thing.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 28, 2016 02:21 PM (6FqZa)

315 Speaking of Rapid Puppies, I checked out Vox Day's site for the first time recently. I've got nothing against him or his commenters, but man, not quite what I expected...

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at August 28, 2016 02:26 PM (4nvDq)

316 Rabid

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at August 28, 2016 02:31 PM (4nvDq)

317 Thanks again to Elisabeth and Christopher for their suggestions on classic Christian writings. THIS is one reason I have an e-reader. I can get inexpensive versions, including a complete works of Saint Augustine, for less than the price of some piece of crap modern paperback 'best seller'. And if I decide I want physical editions, I can take the time to find good used copies.

Life is good!

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 02:33 PM (V+03K)

318 144 WOPR: Thanks. My library had put the three Middle Ages courses up for sale and I bought those...still working through what I'm going to include.

190 sinmi: Thanks for pointing out that course. I'll have to check it and that episode out.

Much appreciated!

Posted by: dwinnorcal at August 28, 2016 02:55 PM (+5lVk)

319 JTB, one more set of recs for Christian classics:

http://www.ccel.org -- Christian Classics Ethereal Library, run by Calvin College
http://www.newadvent.org -- New Advent, a privately run Catholic site

These are basically the equivalent of Project Gutenberg, but specifically for public domain Christian books. Both have the full text of the Ante-Nicene Fathers and Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers series, which provides a major chunk of the writings of the Church Fathers. New Advent also has the full text of the Summa Theologica and the Catholic Encyclopedia, but they're online only. CCEL offers a wider range of texts through the early 20th century, including Protestant authors, as well as downloadable ebooks.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at August 28, 2016 03:05 PM (m2sZd)

320 Elisabeth, Again, thanks. This thread is more of a wealth of information than usual.

Posted by: JTB at August 28, 2016 03:08 PM (V+03K)

321 There is a manga called Brides that seems to be set in that region and era (I only read a few pages because the library didn't have the first in the series). The drawings of the clothes are amazing, but I'm sure the setting is highly romanticized since a realistic presentation would be "Nasty, brutal, and short."

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 10:53 AM (GDulk)

It's "Brides Stories" by Kaoro Mori

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/13022.Kaoru_Mori

Her series "Emma" is excellent as well. I usually don't go for that type of story, but I was hooked. The details are accurate and amazing.

Posted by: The Political Hat at August 28, 2016 03:19 PM (vBeA5)

322 I can't stop watching these clips on YouTube of Kaoro Mori inking in her illustrations. It's very Zen and relaxing.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 28, 2016 03:46 PM (jR7Wy)

323 #37

F.Paul Wilson's story 'Lipidleggin' ' was reprinted in the 80s anthology 'The Survival of Freedom' edited by Jerry Pournelle. I've done most of the work to get this revived as an e-book edition but it's been in limbo for a couple years.

Posted by: Epobirs at August 28, 2016 04:06 PM (IdCqF)

324 Posted by: The Political Hat at August 28, 2016 03:19 PM (vBeA5)

Ah. Apparently I completely overlooked the word "stories" while trying to ascertain if book one was available or not. Is her Emma at all related to Jane Austen's book by the same name?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 04:30 PM (GDulk)

325 Posted by: The Political Hat at August 28, 2016 03:19 PM (vBeA5)

Just checked your link and clearly they are *not* related except by name.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 04:32 PM (GDulk)

326 Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 28, 2016 03:46 PM (jR7Wy)

I may have found a new addiction, although the sound of the razor removing the shading film sends me up the wall. I think Gushka would like the series as well since it's in her favorite region and includes gorgeous horses as well as amazing costumes.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 28, 2016 04:37 PM (GDulk)

327 Spent a lot evenings in that room, top picture. Nice place to study. Also has a nice ceiling to stare at when bored reading. Front of Libray is stone and very ornate, like many of the quad buildings at the University. Back part more modern.

Stacks at the university of Illinois was also very impressive. Think really low ceilings and row of books after row of books, for many stories up and down. Little cubicles here and there for study. Undergrads forbidden, so that was nice too. Probably all gone know, but a few million books takes a bit of storage space.

Posted by: Fredlike at August 28, 2016 04:58 PM (AHd0y)

328 I love how the mighty book thread rolls on.

I was tidying up my bookmarks and came across this review of the collection of sci-fi novellas by Joan D. Vinge called "The Heaven Chronicles", which takes place generations after a civil war has destroyed commerce between planets in the Heaven System.

http://tinyurl.com/pdxlmbz

We were discussing tidally locked planets on some ONT (because of course) and I was reminded of this book, one of my favorites.

The reviewer, James Davis Nicholl, writes some fun reviews of 60's/70's sciff:

http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/reviews/series/because-my-tears-are-delicious-to-you

I'm just jamming on all the old paperback covers.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 28, 2016 05:10 PM (jR7Wy)

329 Getting way late, but the college library I'm working on has very high ceilings that has curved drywalled coffer ceilings. It is getting fabric on the main parts in-between the coffered areas. It use to have book cases I think on the sides but they are gone. It is going to get a 2 million dollar painting (thats what I've been told) on the opposite side of the windows. The painting is crated up and we have been working around it.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2016 05:57 PM (0G2eQ)

330 To answer Kindltot's question at #294 above, the grain dole to the citizens of the Imperial capital was ended in Constantinople after the Islamic conquest of Eygpt cut off the main source of supply. This caused a radical drop in the population of the city. Then vacant buildings were torn down and the land converted to small farms and market gardens within the city walls.

This bit of history is a plot point in Gillian Bradshaw's excellent historical novel "Alchemy of Fire".

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 28, 2016 06:41 PM (Tp5Dh)

331 "Children are made readers on the laps of their parents,"
--Emilie Buchwald.

It takes a modern school system to beat that out of them.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at August 28, 2016 06:46 PM (o7l6R)

332 I thought that pic was from a church converted to a library, too.

I know at least two major parish churches converted to libraries at Oxford. One, St. Peter in the East Gate, became the library of St. Edmund Hall (which is actually now a college of Oxford U.)

Sadly, I have had no luck in getting access to that library though I've tried several times. The cemetery of the old church is accessible and pleasant, however.

Posted by: WannabeAnglican at August 28, 2016 07:09 PM (vFmT2)

333 I just finished reading A Great Reckoning by Louise Penny. If you have been reading the series from the gitgo, be prepared to get your socks knocked off. Every time I think Penny has reached the pinnacle of her considerable writing skills, she hits another one even further out of the park. (As with any great series, the Penny books need to be read in order.

Looking ahead into October's list, about all I can say is "Blah". For such an important time for the book industry (going into the Christmas season), I am truly shocked by the dearth of good fiction. Oh, sure, there are the "literary" tomes every credentialed elite type should have sitting on the coffee table to impress visitors with their host's erudition and dedication to the "right"authors, but actual readable material is scarce on the ground.

And don't even get me started on the prices!!!! I almost croaked when I discovered that Random a house is charging $30.00 for Caleb Carr's new book, Surrender, New York. I'm certainly not questioning Carr's competence as a writer; I just think it is insane to put the price of a book out of the reach of ordinary people with average wages.

The publishing industry ain't what it used to be nearly thirty years ago.

Posted by: Catlady at August 29, 2016 01:10 AM (ckz8M)

334 "Bacon and Eggs Man" is by Ken Wheaton, not Wharton. Good read!

Posted by: Anson McDonald at August 29, 2016 03:31 PM (UX0Vt)

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