Saturday Gardening Thread: Gone Bananas [KT]

Today's Gardening Thread is dedicated to the AoSHQ Overnight Thread, which this week pointed the way to some interesting garden-related, or at least plant-related, topics.

Bananas threatened with extinction?

In last Sunday's ONT, Misanthropic Humanitarian linked a piece about the possible coming global extinction of the banana within 5 years. This set off quite a bit of discussion about bananas and plant science. This topic merited a reprise on Thursday. along with some Banana Facts. I preferred the photos at the link, myself.

Anyway, I though a little summary and clarification might be in order. The "extinction" meme seems to me to be a way to prompt some grant money. But the new strains of banana diseases do sound more serious than past threats. More threatening to third world farmers than to us. Stories about these threats have been appearing with some regularity over the past few years. Scientists have been hard at work, but the triploid nature of palatable bananas complicates conventional breeding efforts.

Efforts to create GMO bananas to combat these problems started in Australia in 2011. Wonder if this crisis will change the narrative on GMO organisms any?

Some Banana History

Before Cavendish bananas came to dominate bananas for export, the most widely-exported banana was the Gros Michel Banana, AKA Big Mike. The disease which wiped out Big Mike did not wipe out other banana cultivars. New strains of the Panama Disease and other fungi affect bananas other than the current market leader, the Cavendish. So the threat to farmers growing other bananas for local use is greater.

"Yes! We Have No Bananas", a novelty song from the 1922 Broadway revue Make It Snappy, is said to have been inspired by a shortage of Gros Michel bananas, which began with the infestation of Panama disease early in the 20th century.
The "six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch" mentioned in "Day-O (The Banana Boat Song)" are most probably 'Gros Michel' bunches, as these were the bananas produced in Jamaica at the time the song was composed and the bunches can grow to that size.

Shameless Cultural Appropriation of Calypso Music

Gros Michel bananas still survive in a few remote locations in Africa. They are said to taste more like "banana" than the bland Cavendish of today.

Your Breakfast Banana, the Cavendish

The Smithsonian Magazine had an article on the coming demise of the Cavendish banana in June. The Cavendish dominates banana exports today. Like Big Mike before it, the Cavendish is a sterile triploid that has only vestigal seeds. Regular diploid bananas have seeds that can break your teeth.

Cavendish bananas are actually a subgroup of triploid bananas, with several cultivars. As a triploid, the ancestor of the Cavendish bananas had small, sterile seeds. All of the Cavendish strains are propagated from cuttings, so each cultivar is a clone of all others of the same name, except in the case of genetic mutations.

The Grand Nain strain of Cavendish bananas is better known as the Chiquita Banana

On Sunday, Burnt Toast posted a nice link to a piece on bananas beyond the boring Cavendish. There were other comments I especially liked from the ONT this week. GnuBreed grew ornamental bananas OUTDOORS. Ate them, too.

I got a kick out of the droll comment by an EU Technocrat.

Nooo. . . . Not Chocolate, too!

Via Misanthropic Humanitarian, I was also able to learn that today is Pots de Creme day, in addition to being Banana Lovers Day. Chocolate Pots de Creme should go especially well with bananas.

National Pots de Creme Day

Yipes! Again from the comments on Sunday's ONT I learned that Cacao is also threatened. Cacao, the source of cocoa and chocolate, is threatened by a serious disease called
Witches' Broom.

As American cartoonist Charles Schulz once put it: "All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt." An aggressive and intractable hemibiotrophic fungus, Moniliophthora perniciosa, is ravaging chocolate tree (Theobroma cacao) plantations in many American countries, threatening livelihoods and the billion dollar cacao industry, and jeopardizing the world's most beloved treat.

And there are other threats to cocoa. Nature is out to get us, don't you think?

Notice from the ONT: Some garden plants are toxic

In last night's ONT, CDR M posted a video about The Deadliest Garden. Commissioned by a Duchess in Northumberland who decided to have a poison garden because an herb garden was boring. Reminds me of English murder mysteries somehow.

Anyway, we have discussed some of these deadly plants before, like Giant Hogweed. Now present in parts of North America. Don't even touch it. We will go over some of the other poisonous "cottage garden plants" in the future. Be careful out there in the garden.

The Gardens of The Horde

Anybody doing any fall planting? Harvesting? What is going on in your garden?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:45 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Pretty bold...

Posted by: HH at August 27, 2016 12:47 PM (DrCtv)

2 how bold

Posted by: Kindltot at August 27, 2016 12:48 PM (ry34m)

3 boldness gone.

He who dares winds up in the barrel

Posted by: Kindltot at August 27, 2016 12:48 PM (ry34m)

4 Testing my boldness

Posted by: Kindltot at August 27, 2016 12:48 PM (ry34m)

5 who has two thumbs and a work around? This guy?

Posted by: Kindltot at August 27, 2016 12:49 PM (ry34m)

6 I have to do some grass planting. but first I have to spray a shitload of roundup on some weeds

Posted by: chemjeff at August 27, 2016 12:54 PM (uAvJJ)

7 Gee a banana-headed dog

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 27, 2016 12:54 PM (mpXpK)

8 A Rose of Sharon adjacent to the mailbox has bowed over the box a bit. Our mail lady told me that it makes her smile when she gets to our box. Here's a pic:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/h7zjk5l

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 27, 2016 12:54 PM (9mTYi)

9 chemjeff at August 27, 2016 12:54 PM

Best to wait a while for them to die before planting your grass.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 12:55 PM (qahv/)

10 I liked that Beatlejuice movie even if it did have that AH Alec Baldwin in it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 27, 2016 12:59 PM (mpXpK)

11 Best gardening thread EVAH!!

:::looks out window at weedy lawn, watches Beetlejuice:::

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at August 27, 2016 01:02 PM (+b2T3)

12 Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 27, 2016 12:54 PM

I like the form and color of your Rose of Sharon. Is it double-flowered?

Looks like you are keeping the suckers from the roots under control.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 01:03 PM (qahv/)

13 9 chemjeff at August 27, 2016 12:54 PM

Best to wait a while for them to die before planting your grass.
Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 12:55 PM (qahv/)

#sevendays

Posted by: Golfman at August 27, 2016 01:07 PM (gbwRH)

14 Is Labor Day grass planting time? What's best way to kill grassy weeds (not leafy)?

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at August 27, 2016 01:09 PM (+b2T3)

15 I'd like to apply for a billion dollars in farm aid. Our patio container garden has produced one single cherry tomato.

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 01:10 PM (Sfs6o)

16 Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at August 27, 2016 01:09 PM (+b2T3)

Cool season grasses, yes.

Grassy weeds? Crabgrass? It's a summer annual. Have to put down pre-emerge herbicide in the spring. Tupersan is available and will prevent some of the winter weeds germinating with cool season grasses. It can be applied during seeding.

Posted by: Golfman at August 27, 2016 01:12 PM (gbwRH)

17 It's called crop insurance now. Protects you against low yields from bad weather or ineptness. Protects you against price drops on the case of a bumper yield.

#winning

Posted by: Golfman at August 27, 2016 01:14 PM (gbwRH)

18 I like the form and color of your Rose of Sharon. Is it double-flowered?

Looks like you are keeping the suckers from the roots under control.
-----------

*blush*

I really do not know what 'double-flowered' means.

We have lots of them as they self-propagate nicely. I do prune off the suckers assiduously, as I prefer a more tree-like shape and presentation. I allow them to grow as high as they care to, and have had several go to 10' or more. Mix of whites, purple, and pink.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 27, 2016 01:14 PM (9mTYi)

19 17 ineptness may have been a factor.

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 01:15 PM (Sfs6o)

20 Reinforcing the EU technocrat mentioned, in Portugal the best oranges ever were some small ones that didn't meet EU standard diameter. So they kept them and ate all good stuff by themselves.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at August 27, 2016 01:16 PM (uZxn0)

21
Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 01:15 PM (Sfs6o)

In that case, we've got you covered.

Posted by: Congress at August 27, 2016 01:18 PM (gbwRH)

22 Do cucumbers not self-pollinate? I think I may have gotten two boys or two girls. Farming is hard.

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 01:22 PM (Sfs6o)

23 My buddy Per in Vatne, Norway grew up on a dairy farm. The Norwegian govt props prices for the dairyman and discounts milk from the shops. Per's dad figured out he could buy milk in the shops, dump it in his tanks and turn a profit.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at August 27, 2016 01:23 PM (uZxn0)

24 Just you and me, weasel.

This says they have both flowers on the same plant.

http://aces.nmsu.edu/ces/yard/2008/072608.html

Posted by: Congress at August 27, 2016 01:25 PM (gbwRH)

25 I moved 4 baby trees last weekend. 8 to 12 inches high. So far I think they are still alive. The cottonwoods both had a lot of leaves die but have a few leaves that look healthy. The Russian Olives had one day of droopy leaves. They are fairly tough buggers but we haven't had many start. We get lots of Elm volunteers but the Elms keep dying, sometimes coming back from the roots so I'm trying to get other trees going. And my zucchini are still producing.

Posted by: PaleRider at August 27, 2016 01:29 PM (Jen0I)

26 We just put a contract on a new house, in the same 'hood, but on a bigger lot with sun and lawn.

So, I'm in the process of figuring which container plants to take. The two limes (my margarita trees) are gonna be a bitch, since they're heavy AND thorny.

I guess I can cut them back, or wrap them or something.

Also trying to remember from our visits what's in the new house's yard. My first impression was that it's mostly kinda boring lawn and asian jasmine, but on later visits I noticed some baby satsumas and some interesting native plants scattered around. I think there's a young big tooth maple so that's great for fall color.

Also, there are four palm trees. I've never had a palm tree and don't even know what kind these are or how to care for them. I've Binged around for local palm tree info, and there isn't all that much so off to look through my plant book collection the old school way.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 01:32 PM (ozZau)

27 Also, there are four palm trees.

just don't let the coconuts fall on your head

Posted by: chemjeff at August 27, 2016 01:33 PM (uAvJJ)

28 Oh yeah, got my garden tilled up last week. Planted my first lettuce, collards and tomatoes today. come on , Fall! Planted six new bananas and some sugar cane this week too. the rain from the faux tropical storm should water it all in nicely tomorrow.

Posted by: dr kill at August 27, 2016 01:33 PM (msVAP)

29 Banana Splits Guy at August 27, 2016 01:09 PM

Comments above apply unless you want to plant grass seed for a lawn where the weedy grasses are. Then Roundup.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 01:35 PM (qahv/)

30 Many of our natural conservative immigrant homesteaders have planted coconut palms out on the bald ass prairie. It looks funny.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at August 27, 2016 01:37 PM (uZxn0)

31 Well, it has broken a hundred here already today. If I had planted something it would have dried up and blown away by ow.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 27, 2016 01:37 PM (mpXpK)

32 24 thanks. I have some lazy-ass cucumbers then!

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 01:38 PM (Sfs6o)

33 just don't let the coconuts fall on your head
Posted by: chemjeff at August 27, 2016 01:33 PM (uAvJJ)

Well it would be no big loss if they hit my head

These are not coconut palms, but my realtor told me, oh you need to have the dead fronds trimmed right away because they'll beat up anything they fall on. Oh swell.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 01:38 PM (ozZau)

34 29 Comments above apply unless you want to plant grass seed for a lawn where the weedy grasses are. Then Roundup.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 01:35 PM (qahv/)

Just make sure you don't have any tomato plants nearby. You can walk by a tomato plant with an unopened container of Roundup and it will kill it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 27, 2016 01:40 PM (mpXpK)

35 Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 27, 2016 01:14

Single-flowered Rose of Sharon has a single ring of petals around the center that flare out something like the poodle skirt of yore.

Double flowered Rose of Sharon has additional petals inside the outer ring of petals, sort of like petticoats under a poodle skirt.

Sounds like you are doing well with this plant.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 01:41 PM (qahv/)

36 My contribution to the gardening thread: Yesterday, daughter's Great Dane Oaf Dog plunged noggin' first into her best large planter, cracking the planter and trampling all the flowers therein. Noggin suffered no injuries and appears to have retained its oaf-like state. Flowers bit the dust.

Posted by: grammie winger at August 27, 2016 01:42 PM (bpfzP)

37 32 correction - cucumber plants. I have lazy-ass cucumber plants. There are no actual cucumbers.

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 01:42 PM (Sfs6o)

38 I planted some peas since I had a tilled bare strip along the new fence. Usually that's a March - June cycle but I did it to see what happens. If they bear maybe get a mess of brown crowders. Or the deer eat them all is just as likely.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at August 27, 2016 01:42 PM (uZxn0)

39 The garden isn't producing as much as previous years-- not a bad thing really-- food usually goes from garden to table in 48 hours or less, which means I don't have to 'preserve' much of anything.

Will cut basil and oregano for drying today. I once let oregano go to seed; now it springs up in nooks and crannies around the yard.

There may be a gallon or two of tomatoes to peel/freeze by next weekend.

Hops! They're getting bigger and harvest will be...? Soon... still guessing at ripeness.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 01:43 PM (044Fx)

40 Still trying to ditch this corrupt sock.

Posted by: Golfman at August 27, 2016 01:45 PM (gbwRH)

41 Posted by: grammie winger at August 27, 2016 01:42

Glad doggeh is okay!

It can be tough to have *both* gardens and pets...

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 01:48 PM (044Fx)

42 Sadly, all the banana trees in my yard got killed off by an exceptionally cold winter 3 years ago. It got down into the 10s-20s for a full week. The same weather also killed my lemon and tangerine trees. The lemon tree was particularly fruitful for several years -- I got 500-700 very large lemons from it each year.

The MS Gulf Coast climate is classified as semi-tropical. Annual rainfall is 65", and the average January low is 43 degrees F. But about every 10 years or so we get a really hard freeze. Orange Grove, formerly a separate community but now annexed to Gulfport, was once known for its commercial citrus orchards, but the occasional hard freezes kept wiping them out, and now they are just a memory.

Posted by: GnuBreed at August 27, 2016 01:54 PM (gyKtp)

43 When we as kids caught a mess o' bluegills down by the creek, our mom planted some of the excess in her flower garden as fertilizer.

Cats dug up the whole damn flower bed.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 01:56 PM (jR7Wy)

44 I will float two topics here, they're not exactly 'gardening' but they're more minimalist 'landscaping'.

First off, mulch. I'm looking at the ground-up-tires rubber mulch, because wood mulch just floats off into the gutter when it rains. Experiences?

Secondly, drip-ish irrigation. I did an extensive drip setup in our front yard, but have found it's far too maintenance-intensive - stuff breaks, stuff comes apart, and you can't weedwack within a foot of any of it or it just disintegrates.

I've gone back to spray heads but if someone had an idea for something DURABLE I might be interested.

Yeah, I have the tools and skills to plumb the whole damn thing in Aeroquip -3 stainless braided Teflon hose and JIC fittings, which some might consider overkill, but if it gave me a setup that I didn't have to check weekly for the next ten years it might be worthwhile.

Posted by: JEM at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM (o+SC1)

45 KT, Thanks for the thread (as always) and for that photo at the top. Can't help but think of the mini dachshund that was our family pet growing up. I'll be smiling at the image for a long time.

Posted by: JTB at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM (V+03K)

46 This week I had been watching caterpillars eatting my dill plants. They are green with black rings that have yellow spots,I looked them upand saw they are Swallow tail butterfly so I let them live. Soif someday yousee some you can thank me. By the way today I saw my dill plants are totally gone, seeds and all.
I also am pretty much giving up on hoping I would get some pumpkins, my 2 plants have had hundreds of flowers but not 1 pumpkin has even started.

Posted by: Skip at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM (0G2eQ)

47 Banana plants are an herb. The 'tree' is an herbaceous stem. Banana fruit is classified as a berry.

While visiting the Philippines my go-to lunch was some coco bread or chocolate cookies fresh from the bakery, Intundan bananas and San Miguel Beer!

Im currently looking at a recipe for diy tabasco sauce. I think I have a barrelita in the garage for fermenting this: 2% salt by weight to ground red-ripe peppers. Ferment for a couple years....add vinegar, shake every day for a month and strain into bottles.

I picked a peck of okra yesterday.....making a gumbo later this afternoon. My Boone County White corn topped out at 12 foot plus. Its a sight! I cannot reach the first ear.

For those that find cilantro unpalatable, this year I grew papalo.....easy to grow herb used in Mexico in fresh salsa. I like it, it grows upright and easy to maintain, does not bolt.

Posted by: cicero Kaboom! kid at August 27, 2016 02:00 PM (QWoDa)

48 I also am pretty much giving up on hoping I would get some pumpkins, my 2 plants have had hundreds of flowers but not 1 pumpkin has even started.
Posted by: Skip at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM (0G2eQ)
---
Maybe you can pollinate them by hand to get them in the mood?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 02:01 PM (jR7Wy)

49 Posted by: JEM at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM (o+SC1)
My experience is everything disintegrates and needs maintenance.
If you find the perfect drip tape let me know. We patch the holes with electrical tape.

Posted by: CaliGirl at August 27, 2016 02:02 PM (Q5Ymk)

50 Here's a blog on hand-pollinating punkins:

http://down---to---earth.blogspot.com/2014/02/growing-and-hand-pollinating-pumpkins.html

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 02:03 PM (jR7Wy)

51 Does anyone have experience with Trumpet Vine?
I have a 30 foot tree stump I had left after removal to try Clematis on. After 6 years Clematis just aren't cutting it. I had read about Trumpet and the it could be invasive. The area around it would be mowed on a regular basis. I'm in Northern Illinois. Anybody have advice?

Posted by: Bruce at August 27, 2016 02:05 PM (8ikIW)

52 Maybe you can pollinate them by hand to get them in the mood?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 02:01 PM (jR7Wy)
does it involve baby oil and Barry White?

Posted by: chemjeff at August 27, 2016 02:05 PM (uAvJJ)

53 There is always a danger to have one prevalent plant type as opposed to having a few types around the world. I think there have been a few plant species that took over due to popularity only to run into trouble due to insects or deasese and loosing due to lack of diversity.

Posted by: Skip at August 27, 2016 02:06 PM (0G2eQ)

54 Our yard also has a couple of very mature jelly palms, which produce a not so tasty small orange colored fruit --

http://www.florida-palm-trees.com/pindo-palm-tree/

But they did survive that cold ass week I mentioned.

Posted by: GnuBreed at August 27, 2016 02:07 PM (gyKtp)

55 >> does it involve baby oil and Barry White?

I'm inclined to think hand-pollenation is much closer to what's seen in Japanese porn.

Posted by: JEM at August 27, 2016 02:07 PM (o+SC1)

56 Weasel at August 27, 2016 01:22 PM

Congrats on your cherry tomato. You're your way to those federal subsidies!

Most cucumber plants have both male and female flowers. The female ones have little fruits on the end. Sometimes the males start flowering before the females.

There are several all-female cucumbers, though. Some do not require pollination. A few require pollination and must be planted with another variety of cucumber.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:08 PM (qahv/)

57 I mentioned last week that the garden is pretty much done except for some herbs. Once this sauna they call weather cools down we'll clean up the garden and containers. The soil in the containers has seen several seasons so it will go for fill in some holes in the yard. Fresh soil for next year's containers.

The main garden bed will be planted with a rye grass winter cover crop. The local extension service provided the seeds, bless them. It's supposed to help invigorate the soil when turned over in the spring. The extension folks said it should help choke out the damned bind weed that is our major gardening headache.

Posted by: JTB at August 27, 2016 02:08 PM (V+03K)

58 does it involve baby oil and Barry White?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 27, 2016 02:05 PM (uAvJJ)
----
"Pistil-packin' mama" and lots of dago red.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 02:09 PM (jR7Wy)

59 PaleRider at August 27, 2016 01:29 PM

Congrats on the zucchini.

Probably a good move to replace some elms with something else. Some species break easily in storms, too.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:09 PM (qahv/)

60 Thanks KT! While the cucumbers are a disappointment, were pretty proud of the cherry tomato! I'm thinking about making lasagne out of it.

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 02:10 PM (Sfs6o)

61 Looked that up on pollination, could try. I see bees and butterflies often in my garden so wasn't worried about doing it. Iknow the farmdown the street has bee hives

Posted by: Skip at August 27, 2016 02:11 PM (0G2eQ)

62 stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 01:32 PM

Congrats on the new house.

You might think about renting a lowboy trailer so you can just roll those container plants onto it.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:12 PM (qahv/)

63 "Pistil-packin' mama" and lots of dago red.

Good one

Posted by: Bruce at August 27, 2016 02:12 PM (8ikIW)

64 Too cold for citrus here, but Mom started a tangerine from seed and kept it in a pot for decades. Outdoors in late spring, indoors every fall...

It was nearly 20 years old before ever flowering. (Wasn't even sure *what kind* of citrus it was --for all that time!-- because she had planted several kinds of citrus seeds and the labels faded.)

Beautiful little tree, it was. Tasty little fruits, too. I think it had, at most, about 30 one year. She put little glass fruit- and vegetable-shaped ornaments on it at Christmas-times and called it the Pickle Tree.

Pickle Tree was outside when she passed, and Dad didn't bring it in...

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 02:12 PM (044Fx)

65 stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 01:32 PM

Some palms can be horrible to remove if they are in a place where they might get too big. Be aware.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:14 PM (qahv/)

66 Do cucumbers not self-pollinate? I think I may have gotten two boys or two girls.

I could be wrong but I think all cucumbers are males.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 27, 2016 02:16 PM (4HySM)

67 I could buy trees from a nursery, but the stuff that my mom bought and planted did not fare too well here in our harsh soil and climate. But maybe I'll buy an older cottonwood at some point. I don't think Russian Olives can be sold commercially.

Posted by: PaleRider at August 27, 2016 02:16 PM (Jen0I)

68 dr kill at August 27, 2016 01:33 PM

Wow! You planted bananas! Do you know what kind?

Good luck with your fall garden.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:16 PM (qahv/)

69 grammie winger at August 27, 2016 01:42 PM

Great dog vs. planter story.

Things OK with the bees now?

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:19 PM (qahv/)

70 For those that find cilantro unpalatable, this year I grew papalo......
Posted by: cicero Kaboom! kid at August 27, 2016 02:00 PM (QWoDa)

Cool, I've never heard of that. Around here we can only grow cilantro in the winter, which is quite annoying since that's not pepper/tomato season.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 02:20 PM (ozZau)

71 Dave at Buffalo Roam at August 27, 2016 01:42 PM

Even if they don't bear, they should help keep the weeds down.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:21 PM (qahv/)

72 66 apparently they're supposed to be self-pollinating but I must've somehow gotten gay cucumber plants. Damnit!

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 02:22 PM (Sfs6o)

73 From a volunteer plant, we collected about a quart of muscadines this week in my mom's yard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_rotundifolia

They grow wild (and are cultivated, natch) throughout the South. This particular plant produces small 1/2" grapes, purplish in color. They do have seeds, and are quite sweet.

Posted by: GnuBreed at August 27, 2016 02:25 PM (gyKtp)

74 Finally had two Anaheim peppers, made a Chile rellino out of one, it was superb. Hot but not too much, and they are large. Have 3 or 4 more turning red but promised 2 to a co-worker.

Posted by: Skip at August 27, 2016 02:25 PM (0G2eQ)

75 One item that worked this year was our crepe myrtle. We planted something about the size of a sturdy pencil three years ago, never expecting it to survive. It topped four feet tall this summer and has continued to put out those deep magenta blooms we like. Crepe myrtles do well in this area but this must be one tough specimen. Think we paid two bucks for it but I gave it a twenty dollar hole. Maybe the old adage is correct.

Posted by: JTB at August 27, 2016 02:26 PM (V+03K)

76 Trumpet Vines are native to the SE but will grow anywhere. They are similar to Wisteria and also Kudzu in their propagation. Once established they are almost impossible to get rid of. You just about have to go in with a backhoe and plow up the vines with the roots and then treat the regrowth as it comes up again with Roundup. After a few years you may actually get rid of it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 27, 2016 02:26 PM (mpXpK)

77 Ordered some seed for winter fodder and some for my consumption.

I've got a 5 gallon bucket of purple top turnips that the cows will eat only after a hard frost. Also going to get 5 lbs of beet seeds and 25 lbs of radish seeds. They all broadcast very easily and don't have to be planted with expensive equipment, but I might do a light disking job first to help the seeds find a nice spot to take root.

I figure if I plant all of that, the critters can have what they want, and there is still enough for all I will want to eat or preserve.

Posted by: mephitis at August 27, 2016 02:27 PM (DHsoc)

78 Bruce,
You're going to plant trumpet vine? On purpose? It's pretty much a weed around here. It can be quite an aggressive climber. Hummingbirds do love it, though.

If you want them, I could send you some pods (? - the beans), as I've been cutting a vine off the fence & back corner of the house. Already have two large lawn bags full.

Posted by: Chi at August 27, 2016 02:28 PM (AZnqb)

79 Does anyone have experience with Trumpet Vine?
I have a 30 foot tree
stump I had left after removal to try Clematis on. After 6 years
Clematis just aren't cutting it. I had read about Trumpet and the it
could be invasive. The area around it would be mowed on a regular basis.
I'm in Northern Illinois. Anybody have advice?
Posted by: Bruce at August 27, 2016 02:05 PM

There's a trumpet vine at the place I used to live: From next door, its underground root system crept past the neighbors garage and into my yard-- about 20 feet from where it was planted.

Maybe put in a deep root barrier, like bamboo requires?

On clematis: perhaps a different variety would work better for you. Here is 'clematis montana' that I have along a fence/deck, photo taken end of April:

http://tinypic.com/r/908yu8/9

I planted it 4 (or 5?) years ago.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 02:30 PM (044Fx)

80 Oh, and we planted a grapefruit, and two lime trees three years ago. This year the grapefruit had 6 fruits on a single limb, of which there is only one left that didn't fall off. Other trees are completely barren. And looks like no pecans on the trees this year either. Bummer.

Posted by: Mephitis rootsForTexit at August 27, 2016 02:30 PM (DHsoc)

81 Bruce, I am in usda zone 6b

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 02:33 PM (044Fx)

82 JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 01:43 PM

I would ask on the Food Thread about when to pick hops. Some brewers hang out there.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:33 PM (qahv/)

83 For those who care, the 2017 Old Farmer's Almanac comes out next Tuesday. This will be the 225th anniversary issue. I don't plant by the OFA although I am tempted to try a small experiment. But it is just fun and informative and I look forward to it each year.

Posted by: JTB at August 27, 2016 02:34 PM (V+03K)

84 "the deadliest garden... sounds like an english murder mystery". actually it was. the plot of ian fleming's "you only live twice" concerned bond being sent to japan to put a stop to a guy who built suicide gardens with deadly plants that were attracting suicidal young japanese. it had nothing to do with rockets as in the movie, which was bitterly and, i would say, wrongly denounced in the sidebar some time ago. that critic failed to mention the song and score being second only to "goldfinger".

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at August 27, 2016 02:36 PM (WTSFk)

85 GnuBreed at August 27, 2016 01:54 PM

Bet you miss that citrus. Citrus gets killed off every few years here on the valley floor, too. People still plant trees.

Let us know if you ever try bananas again.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:37 PM (qahv/)

86 Thanks, KT.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 02:37 PM (ozZau)

87 Oh we also have a few white grapes. I thought that if one grape on a cluster was ripe it was safe to cut it for eating, but that is not working on the two I cut, they have some grapes still very tart mixed in with the ripe ones.

Posted by: PaleRider at August 27, 2016 02:38 PM (Jen0I)

88 All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 01:56 PM

It has been my experience that cats do not make good garden helpers unless they are catching rodents. Your mom's experience confirms that.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:39 PM (qahv/)

89 Skip at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM

Those caterpillars can be voracious. And they eat young seeds, too. Next year, you might try planting more dill and moving the caterpillars off certain plants onto others. The butterflies are pretty. Watch for the chrysalis on fences, weeds and stems. You can move them to a protected location out of winter sun.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:43 PM (qahv/)

90 JEM at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM

Can you just turn the volume low and use some of your spray heads as drip emitters?

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:45 PM (qahv/)

91 (actually, one of the few flaws in the movie "you only live twice" was when bond and his "wife" get to the crater he is only wearing swim trunks. he sends her back to get help from tiger tanaka and he enters the crater. but he is next seen wearing a ninja outfit! where did that come from?! however, the plot of the book "you only live twice" with its suicide gardens is pretty lame, imho.)

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at August 27, 2016 02:46 PM (WTSFk)

92 I looked up papalo (since I've never had luck with cilantro) and discovered that it's supposed to be good for high blood pressure. Is Jane d'oh around?

Also that some restaurants in Mexico keep vases of papalo on the tables so diners can add their own to their meals. That might be fun with other herbs as well.

So, thanks, Cicero.

Posted by: Wenda (sic) at August 27, 2016 02:46 PM (pZEKq)

93 JEM at August 27, 2016 01:58 PM

Thee are some nut shells used as mulch that don't float. Pecan, I think. Look around for alternatives from your area. Stuff left over from harvest.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:47 PM (qahv/)

94 Pet Thread is up!

Posted by: Weasel at August 27, 2016 02:49 PM (Sfs6o)

95 Hi Banana Lovers, pet thread Is Nood

Posted by: L, Elle at August 27, 2016 02:49 PM (6IPEM)

96 [(... but given a murder garden is being made in england, maybe MI5 will have to intervene after all, a matter of life imitating art, so not so lame, i guess.)]

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at August 27, 2016 02:49 PM (WTSFk)

97 cicero Kaboom! kid at August 27, 2016 02:00 PM

You are growing interesting stuff! I am going to have to look up that cilantro alternative. Sounds great.

Good luck with the homemade Tabasco. Some of the products of fermentation give me migraines, but Mr. Bar-the-Door loves it.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:52 PM (qahv/)

98 Pale Rider.
I don't think Russian Olives can be sold commercially.

I bought some bare root stock from Gurneys a long time ago. Only have 2 trees left.

Posted by: Ronster at August 27, 2016 02:52 PM (dYfSG)

99
It has been my experience that cats do not make good garden helpers unless they are catching rodents. Your mom's experience confirms that.
Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 02:39 PM (qahv/)
---
We planted mint next to the strawberry patch and the cats would go crazy over it (it's a relative of catnip, a.k.a. 'catmint') and roll all over the strawberries in grrroovy ecstasy.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 02:54 PM (jR7Wy)

100 Murder Garden would be a great band name.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 27, 2016 02:55 PM (jR7Wy)

101 Bruce at August 27, 2016 02:05 PM

Friends have a garden bed about 15 feet from neighbor's trumpet vine. It sent roots under the lawn into the bed. Trumpet vine is WAY invasive. Pretty, though. Clematis can be touchy. Is it C. montana or one of the large-flowered kinds.

There have to be other suitable vines. What region do you live in?

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:05 PM (qahv/)

102 Wet newspapers (keep them folded, you want a thick layer) with wheat straw on top is the best mulch I have found. And free! (for me). Grandma keeps her newspapers for me and I have my husband bring in a 1400 lb round bale of straw. Did a really great job opening up a small garden on the north side of the house. Did it in late fall and by early spring it was mostly disintegrated, the weeds and grass was mostly gone and I could hoe it with no problem.

Posted by: mullingthingsover at August 27, 2016 03:06 PM (CmpB+)

103 44 The rubber mulch. Kinda negates about half the advantage of mulch, I think. Doesn't improve the soil.
51 A dead snag is kind of the ideal place for trumpetcreeper.
That, or a utility pole. I think it seeds more than spreads by roots.

Posted by: MarkY at August 27, 2016 03:07 PM (CaWoC)

104 JTB at August 27, 2016 02:08 PM

Bind weed is terrible. Hope the winter cover of rye grass helps some.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:08 PM (qahv/)

105 We are fixing to move out to our farm. Foundation is done and double wide is scheduled to move next week, if the rains haven't stopped the mover's progress on other jobs. It's out in a pasture with nothing. No landscaping, just weeds and pasture grass. I'm starting from scratch.

Posted by: mullingthingsover at August 27, 2016 03:09 PM (CmpB+)

106 Nope. I checked. KT's right. Trumpetcreeper spreads via roots, too.
It's not that horribly invasive here in KC.
Pawpaws are ripe in the woods here, BTW. Gonna try some pawpaw bread.

Posted by: MarkY at August 27, 2016 03:10 PM (CaWoC)

107 JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 02:12 PM

Great story about your Mom and the tangerine tree. Do you ever think about getting a little indoor/outdoor citrus tree?

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:11 PM (qahv/)

108 KT,
you were right about the pasilla/poblano peppers. When we sell them they are labeled pasilla peppers. I asked why, my husband didn't know.
I haven't gone outside today it's cold here. Low 60's.
At least there isn't any more ash dropping.

Posted by: CaliGirl at August 27, 2016 03:13 PM (Q5Ymk)

109 Cicero (@cicero) at August 27, 2016 02:16 PM

Heh.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:14 PM (qahv/)

110 Treasure Valley, Idaho (Boise area): We laid down 2 strips of landscape cloth along the 2 rows of baby Blue Spruce we planted as windbreak on the north and west sides of our paddock.

I dug up 26 pounds of Purple Majesty potatoes. I'd planned to wait since we already dug the Russets and Yukon Golds so we have plenty of potatoes, but the purples are near where the bacterial soft rot hit the Yukons, so I decided to dig them sooner. Fortunately only 2 potatoes were rotted, the rest look OK.

Red raspberries are producing a pint or more a day. We're freezing them, so we can get enough together to put a batch in a steamer, make juice, then make jelly. YUM!!

Zucchini continues to produce. Ditto all 4 types of tomatoes. We are eating the yellow pear and Sungold as fast as we can - freezing the Romas for sauce/salsa experiments TBD - and making some of the Early Girls into caprese and freezing the rest.

Along with squash bugs, the zucchini are now suffering from powdery mildew on the leaves - that's how everything collapsed last year. At least this year I know what the squash bugs and eggs look like and am staying ahead for the moment.

Looks like I'll get 6 Pumpkin 'Small Sugar' - 4 are orange already. Only 3 cantaloupes likely.

We will start cutting off flowers and baby squash from the butternut squash after the Labor Day weekend.

Fall crops have sprouted - we know the radishes are likely to make it, but the lettuces, snow peas, and carrots are experiments.

We bought 7 ornamental grass, Calamagrostis 'Overdam', to interplant with clumps of tall purple Dutch iris (or whatever type they are). Earlier today we moved the landscaping rock and cut holes through the landscape cloth - tomorrow we'll dig and plant, then set up drip irrigation lines.

We're getting the first, very early hints of fall - the nighttime lows are dipping below 50 F some nights, and the highs are going from high 90's toward the 80's - there's even a chance of rain next week.

Posted by: Pat* at August 27, 2016 03:15 PM (qC1ju)

111 Skip at August 27, 2016 02:25 PM

Congrats on the peppers! They work well for Chile Rellenos.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:15 PM (qahv/)

112 JTB at August 27, 2016 02:26 PM

The ones names after Indian Tribes are hybrids with mildew resistance. Seminole, Chippewa, Miami, Cherokee, etc.

The closest In-n-Out Burger joint to us has a gorgeous crepe myrtle with deep red blossoms and dark leaves. Gotta find out what it is.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:18 PM (qahv/)

113 mephitis at August 27, 2016 02:27 PM

Wow. That is a lot of seed. But it is cheaper per unit for larger quantities, isn't it?

Good luck with your winter cover crops.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:20 PM (qahv/)

114 Our plan to use the media to manipulate the banana and cacao futures markets is working! Who needs government reports!

Posted by: Randolph and Mortimer Duke at August 27, 2016 03:20 PM (FtrY1)

115 musical jolly chimp at August 27, 2016 02:36 PM

I am practically movie-illiterate. Thanks for the info.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:25 PM (qahv/)

116 JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 02:30 PM

Your Clematis montana is beautiful. I'm going to give some thought to vines for Bruce over the next couple of weeks.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:27 PM (qahv/)

117 CaliGirl at August 27, 2016 03:13 PM

Glad you are not getting ash any more. Skies are much clearer here, too.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:34 PM (qahv/)

118 I live in Oahu. It's common to get Apple Bananas either in the store, or simply someone bringing in a bunch to work or church because they were ripe.

Same with mangos, avocados, and some other mysterious fruits I never had as a kid in the suburbs on the east coast.

Best veggie out here: Okinawan sweet potatoes. I'll mail order those SOBs. Haven't had a regular potato in years... they're amazing.

Posted by: Lucas McCorkle at August 27, 2016 03:34 PM (4Boke)

119 Do you ever think about getting a little indoor/outdoor citrus tree?

Posted by: KT

Yes and no-- Yes, I'd love to have one but No, there's either not enough space or not enough light in the possible locations. Bummer.

On the hops... exactly three (the first ones) cones are actually ripe right now. They pass the springyness-, aroma-, and lupulin gland/color tests.

Guesstimating that the main crop, which appeared about a week after those first ones, will be ripe approx. next weekend.

Hoping the new scale arrives before harvest!

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 03:35 PM (044Fx)

120 Pat* at August 27, 2016 03:15 PM

You came in from the garden a little earlier today. Great report. My favorite part is the raspberries.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:36 PM (qahv/)

121 Lucas McCorkle at August 27, 2016 03:34 PM

I am jealous. I have never even heard of an apple banana.

What color are Okinawan sweet potatoes? What makes them special?

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 03:38 PM (qahv/)

122 Pat*-- I really enjoy your garden reports!

Inspiring. My little garden wants to be like yours when it grows up.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 03:49 PM (044Fx)

123 We are going to pick some of the pinot grapes next week for rose. I forget what the sugar is at now but we should harvest the rest of the pinot and chardonnay in the next few weeks.
I think we had a cooler summer this year.
The tomatoes are finally ready. I was late planting the watermelons so we may not get any.
We have artichokes planted for I believe fall harvest.

Posted by: CaliGirl at August 27, 2016 04:06 PM (Q5Ymk)

124 My clematis didn't do much the first couple of years, so I've been letting it sprawl unchecked to see how far it would go.

This fall, will cut it back severely. We plan on building a pergola over that end of deck, then let clematis climb all over it to block hot overhead and setting sun.

For Bruce:
The vines require a structure/trellis of some kind as they don't produce tendrils or aerial roots. The leaf stems wrap themselves around branches, twine, each other, etc., so you'll need to provide something for them to climb. After a few years the stems will likely support themselves (if well-wrapped around the treetrunk) after twine rots away.

And p.s: the whole plant will look "dead" after leaves fall, but new green shoots will sprout all along the old woody growth-- don't remove it.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 04:09 PM (044Fx)

125 I don't know what other plant the caterpillars eat, I have basil, chives and oregino next to them but they haven't touched them. Other years had 1 or 2 and they didn't eat much and left them be. But there were over a dozen chomping away.

Posted by: Skip at August 27, 2016 04:21 PM (0G2eQ)

126 I appreciate the fact that people like my garden, and my reports on it. (Don't make me blush, now!)

This *is* a great garden - but it took a *lot* of work to set it up, and a certain amount of money too - we never mention money, here in the Garden Thread. (We have no issue finding *time* to do all this since we're retired, but if you have a job, spouse, kids, your time is not all your own to spend, either.) We believe our "return on investment" - in terms of lower grocery bills, healthier food, and plenty of exercise - is worth it.

To start, we had to buy enough lumber to build 10 beds (so far!), 4 by 8 feet, 1 foot high - "hardware cloth" to cover the bottom (metal mesh with 1/2" holes) to keep critters from tunneling up into the beds - and plastic strips to staple in as a liner so the wood might last longer. We had to buy the soil and compost we used to fill them - 1/2 or 1 cubic yard at a time, meaning we needed a truck capable of hauling that load, then we needed to shovel it all out of the truck. The bed for blueberries required peat moss to acidify the soil mix.

We make our own compost for soil amendment too, which took setting up hoops of wire fence to collect leaves last fall, a leaf sucker-shredder to bag up shredded leaves, carts to haul it to the back paddock - then waiting for mown grass this spring so we could make more wire cages for the compost, mixing leaves and grass, and a pitchfork to do the mixing.

My husband had to dig up the corn rows, which are in the paddock, which involved going 2 spade-depths down through sand and packed clay, while mixing in the little compost we had from last year and some nitrogen fertilizer (knowing the area was poor in N required a soil test kit).

Seeds are pretty cheap, but plants can add up - asparagus, strawberries, tomatoes, peppers, onion and potato starts.

Then comes setting up the irrigation system. Before our HOA's irrigation system comes on in April, we carry buckets of water from the house out to the beds! The vegetable garden currently has sprayers (which is why we have a powdery mildew problem every year - eventually we hope to change that area to drip). But we have to check them, adjust them, program the controller, have the system blown out every fall and clean the filters every spring. In the sand-covered paddock, we actually had to *find* the irrigation lines!, then bring up drip for the corn rows, and small sprayers to water the compost piles (clipped to the upper edges of the cages).

The raspberry patch was something we didn't even know we'd bought (April 2015). Either it had been killed to the ground by winter, or the sellers had cut it down thinking it was unsightly. But it was a very nice surprise, and gave us some pounds of fruit last fall and this spring. Now its fall crop is coming on strong. We'd like to move sprouts that are "out of bounds" to a new area - BUT, that means more digging, and more tinkering with the irrigation system.

The apple trees are covered by regular lawn sprayers. But they need yellow jacket traps, occasional sprays, a tall pruning saw, and a basket-picker to get the fruit safely from on high.

The windbreak, we built so that we can (in 3-4 years?) plant dwarf fruit trees behind it, and hope that they won't be killed by the winter winds. There's evidence that the 2 apple trees are the sole survivors of a group of fruit trees, and they survived since they were the furthest back from the wind and the other trees protected them before dying. (That windbreak = 85 plants bought, 85 holes dug, tree tubes to protect them, landscape fabric between them so we didn't have to mow between them by hand.)

Then there's the cost of *storing* all the food!! So far, we're into a new water-bath canner, canning jars and lids and labels - plus plastic freezer containers, extra ziplock-type freezer bags, and... a new chest freezer. Not to mention shelf space in the pantry for the applesauce, jellies, beer (we make that in our hall bathtub! - from kits, so far)....

The lawn isn't producing food, but it means money, time, and work, too. A weekly mowing day - weed spray, fertilizer, pre-emergent crabgrass control, riding mower, with its pull-behind cart to collect the cut grass a few hours later, a regular push mower with bag for the small front lawns, and lots and lots of raking in the fall.

And the ornamental things, which the previous owners paid almost no attention to - digging and dividing iris, adding in the ornamental grasses, adding tulip and hyacinth bulbs.

Did I mention, despite that this is *Idaho* which is up north, the July-August temperatures are over 90 F, often over 95, and we do get some 100's every year? We have to get up early to beat that heat, do a few hours of work - and that's *it* for the day.

And I'm sure I've forgotten something that costs us money or makes us do more work and spend more time! This is a garden we've aspired to have for years - our former home in CA was next to a strong slope, with no really useable space for a vegetable garden, and had an active deer population. Politically we're very happy to be out of there - but with regards to gardening, we are also happy to be out of there, and into a situation where we can finally indulge all our gardening desires!

3 PM now - have to go shower after today's garden labors - going out to a board gaming Meetup tonight. Till next week!

-Pat*, proud to be a Moronette du Jardin

Posted by: Pat* at August 27, 2016 04:56 PM (qC1ju)

127 Crossvine is very popular in TX. It has some of the effect of trumpet vine without being invasive.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 05:14 PM (ozZau)

128 I don't know what other plant the caterpillars eat, I have basil, chives and oregino next to them but they haven't touched them. Other years had 1 or 2 and they didn't eat much and left them be. But there were over a dozen chomping away.
Posted by: Skip at August 27, 2016 04:21 PM (0G2eQ)

I think the black swallowtails just eat plants in the same family as your dill, so: parsley, cilantro, carrot and such. I had some on my parsley one year, and like you I just let them have it. I think it grew back and we survived without that one parsley plant until it did.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 27, 2016 05:19 PM (ozZau)

129 Thanks so much, Pat*, la Moronette du Jardin.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 05:32 PM (qahv/)

130 Awesome stuff, Pat* -- right down to the harsh realities of gardening.

*Time* is our issue. Space can be made, eventually.

Lol, true about Idaho not being always cold! The valley here is 90s-100s regularly from May to Sept and not much precip.

Love the fact that "trade" can overcome lack of "gold" in these parts.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 05:48 PM (044Fx)

131 For dinner tonight we are having mashed potatoes, Yukon Golds I just harvested, and green beans from the garden. Well fish also, but that is the garden part of the meal.

Green beans still producing and I also just harvested a Butternut squash. There are 3 more on the vine but it is rapidly drying up, even w/ all the rain lately. fine by me, I'm not that fond of them, grow them for the wife basically.

Posted by: Farmer at August 27, 2016 07:23 PM (o/90i)

132 Dinner sounds great, Farmer. Love fresh green beans. And freshly-harvested Yukon Golds are a treat, too.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 07:42 PM (qahv/)

133 On the bananas,
I have ten varieties here in Brevard County, Florida -
- Some decorative type I don'y know the name of
- Saba
- Two Filipino varieties I don't know the name (but wife does)
- Ice Cream
- Mysore
- Thousand Finger
- Namwa
- Lady Finger obtained from friend's backyard
- Dwarf Cavendish

The saba, mysore and lady finger are producing right now.
Soil is not very good here, so I have a lot of work to do there.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at August 27, 2016 09:13 PM (P/kVC)

134 If anyone is left...for those who grow green beans:

For green bean flavor, do you prefer bush- or pole- type?

I've grown bush beans (not this year) and *could* grow pole beans but haven't tried them.

Wondering also about shelly types... any favorites for drying?

See ya all next week, if not on a ONT sometime....

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 09:21 PM (044Fx)

135 Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 09:21 PM

I've grown both types, and I'm doing so this year and ate them tonight. Prefer the bush type, easier to contain in limited space.

Fresh I've never found any variety that doesn't beat the crap you get at the grocery store. Used to like a variety called Slendrette by Gurneys. They didn't get old and stayed slender longer tha others.

Posted by: Farmer at August 27, 2016 10:32 PM (o/90i)

136 Thanks for your input, Farmer!

Beans are def. planned for next year, might do both kinds.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 11:02 PM (044Fx)

137 Burnt Toast at August 27, 2016 09:13 PM

Fantastic. Let us know which bananas you like best!

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 11:08 PM (qahv/)

138 JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 09:21 PM

I think it depends on the bean cultivar, not just whether you have a bush or pole type. If you want "bean flavor" rather than the tender, sweet little beans that are cooked briefly, you will find more of that type in the pole beans. Some will have strings after the beans inside expand. For bush cultivars with "beany flavor", try the following for starters:

For cool summers: Provider and Bountiful (bush), Any of the bush Romanos.

For hot summer climates: Contender (Early Contender). You can also use this as a shelly (Buff Valentine). I also like Romanette, halfway between the Romano and Blue Lake type.

There are some dual purpose green/shelly types, too. Remind me to go over them before January.

There are lots of sweet, tender bush varieties and some that are tough for machine harvest. For sweet, tender pole beans, can't beat Fortex in a good bean climate.

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 11:19 PM (qahv/)

139 Fantastic. Let us know which bananas you like best!

Posted by: KT at August 27, 2016 11:08 PM (qahv/)

Namwa.
I got some late last year. It's got a lady finger strong banana-apple flavor with a touch of okra slime when you chew it.
But I haven't had the mysore yet.

Haven't had yet ice cream as it got root rot from heavy winter rains. They say it taste like vanilla ice cream.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at August 27, 2016 11:28 PM (P/kVC)

140 Thanks, KT! We had store-bought green beans tonight. They were pretty good (steamed) but... the dish was lacking that *sense of accomplishment* and Fresh flavor.

Thanks so much for posting the garden threads, too-- I always look forward to them.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 27, 2016 11:48 PM (044Fx)

141 I never even thought about the flavor of the bush green beans I grow (no matter what variety, they taste better than frozen!). I only thought about whether they were productive. I have 2 heirloom varieties which are "all hat, no cattle" - lots of leaves and not many beans. I'm saving them for "stuff hits the fan" emergencies, but next year we're moving more plants out into the paddock, so I'll have more room for Earliserve bush green beans in the raised beds.

Posted by: Pat* at August 28, 2016 12:36 AM (qC1ju)

142 I had to leave not to long after my Trumpet vine question. Thank you all for your responses. I am in zone 5b

Posted by: Bruce at August 28, 2016 08:31 AM (8ikIW)

143 I can tell you all my great hint for successful gardening. 1. Don't go into the hospital for ten days starting Memorial Day. 2. Don't go work in Boston for two weeks in August. Okay, two hints. The tomatoes had a party due in part to lots of rain. They grew two feet, more in places. Lots of paste tomatoes as big as a man's fist. Branches lying on the ground. Cages blown over in a storm. I can't mow until I get all of the tomatoes back into their beds and frames. It beats no crop. But man, they punish you for inattention.

Posted by: Gordon at August 28, 2016 09:49 AM (5fJpW)

144 Weasel, cucumbers have both male and females flowers, but don't self pollinate. They require bees, butterflies, moths to pollinate. The female flower looks like it has a baby cucumber (looks like a male) and the male does not. Bonnie plants website has a great article on it. I read you can hand pollinate in the morning, but having had to do that.

Posted by: Gee at August 28, 2016 10:58 AM (eN+Km)

145 Great tips, Gordon.

Gardens are natural systems with limited forgiveness for lack of attention.

Glad you got some tomatoes. Hope your schedule is less hectic now.

Posted by: KT at August 28, 2016 05:05 PM (qahv/)

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