Saturday Gardening Thread: Mucho es Moy Grande en Texas [KT]

If you know a little Spanish, did you feel a twinge of discomfort when you read the names of those flowers? Like maybe something was not quite right?

I felt much better when I learned that 'Moy Grande' was bred in San Antonio by a pioneering plant breeder from China. Now the flower names make perfect sense.

Ying Doon Moy, research and development horticulturist at the San Antonio Botanical Center cross-bred a Hibiscus moscheutos hybrid with Hibiscus grandiflorus to create the largest open-face hibiscus flower in the world.

He led a remarkable, sometimes scary life. It says a lot to me about persistence, something that comes in handy for gardeners. Unless you are just growing some sprouts for a sandwich or something. So many of us have had terrible setbacks in the garden this year. But he has faced some setbacks I hope few of us ever have to face. And he came back from them:

Mr. Moy endured many hardships during his life. He would sometimes have flashbacks to World War II where he would suddenly start talking about "bombs fell like carrots" and the Japanese soldiers would shoot into the crowd indiscriminately. Also, he was separated from his family who had fled to Hong Kong in the late 1950s. . . During the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976) in China he was stripped of his title and was forced into a program of hard labor and persecution to the extent that he and his family hid in caves and survived on weeds for an extended time. That is where he developed a dislike for purslane.

Those young, idealistic revolutionaries! "Livestock were turned loose in his test planting areas where they destroyed his three prized bi-generic crosses." Sort of reminds me of Occupy taking over university farm land in Berkeley. From Zombie's report: "The scientists themselves are for the most part royally pissed off at the Occupiers and some may have years of work ruined by the Occupiers' juvenile prank."

Occupy got pizza delivery while trying to establish a revolutionary peoples' farm in Berkeley. Its actions are not really comparable to the horrors of the Cultural Revolution. Same doomed utopian dreams though, pretty much. Let a thousand flowers bloom.

But back to our unassuming-yet-persistent plant breeder. Mr. Moy did pioneering work on improving the quality of litchis, pineapples, seedless watermelons, citrus and other crops. In addition to flowers. He used an early technique for cross-breeding of different species, embryo rescue.

This technique is also used by Floyd Zaiger and others here in the Valley to cross-breed species of fruit in the same genus, for example plums and apricots. The embryo is removed from the seed and grown in vitro. This may sound like genetic engineering to a lot of people, but like irradiation, it is considered "natural" by the folks who usually go indiscriminately ballistic over "genetic engineering".

Growing Papayas in Mainland USA

I had not intended to write about papayas after writing about mangoes last week. But Mr. Moy also bred papayas to bear ripe fruit outdoors in South Texas. So here's a song. May not be SFW if you work with relatively recent graduates in the liberal arts. This TV version is even more culturally dangerous. You have been warned. Heh.

When Mr. Moy started working at the San Antonio Botanical Garden, he quietly started improving the papayas in the Formal Garden, where the dramatic, tree-like plants were an exotic curiosity. First he aimed for early ripening and large fruit size for "Texas Bragging Rights". And for shorter plants. He then started hybridizing the Mexican-style papayas with smaller Hawaiian papayas for improved flavor and sweetness.

Mr. Moy received an Imagineer Award from the Mind Science Foundation for successfully developing papaya varieties for the South Texas environment. These include Pretty, Aromatic, Delicious and Dulce. I liked the story about when he chased down co-workers at the botanical garden to taste-test his experimental 25 pound papaya fruits. Texas Figs. Heh.

Mr. Moy's growing tips for papayas are included at the link above. Early types of Mexican papayas can be grown as annuals to produce fruit in San Antonio. There are also links to a papaya video and papaya recipes.

Those in more tropical climes, or those with a greenhouse, have more options. You can order seeds for a wide variety of papayas through the AoSHQ Amazon Store. California Rare Fruit Growers explains the differences between Hawaiian and Mexican (or Caribbean) papayas, and describes some cultivars. It always intrigued me that you could grow distinct cultivars of this fruit from seed.

Sex among papayas is a complex thing. As described (with some nice photos) at the Life Is Just Ducky blog (in Florida), you can grow papayas using seeds from grocery store fruits, but if you intend to get more fruit:

You will need to grow several of them as some are male plants, some female and some are bisexual. You won't know what you have until they flower. The female flowers are held close to the 'crotch' of the tree and the male has a smaller flower that is on a long stem that dangles away from the crotch (I can't make this stuff up folks).

Some cultivars, like Solo (popular in Hawaii before the Papaya Ringspot Virus) have predictable sex ratios. Others, not so much. There is now a very dwarf papaya that does not need pollination by another plant. TR Hovey can even be grown in an EarthBox. The Babaco, a natural cross-species relative of papayas, is even better suited for containers and tolerates cooler temperatures. But that is a topic for another day.

Papaya Ringspot Virus and Genetic Engineering

Because of the emergence of the Papaya Ringspot Virus, papayas are the first genetically engineered commercial fruit to be attacked by activists. Genetically engineered cultivars saved papaya farming in Hawaii. From hope to reality.

If you are worried about genetically modified commercial papaya you might want to stick to Mexican papayas. Personally, I prefer my papayas without the virus.

This disease also affects cucurbits such as melons and squash. One strain was previously known as Watermelon Mosaic Virus. Natural cross-breeding of many cucurbits with virus-resistant relatives produced "natural" resistant cultivars. But a few genetically-engineered summer squash cultivars are also commercialized.

The link below the photo is an excellent source of information if you have friends or relatives who are very concerned about GMO foods.

Hardy Hibiscus

I stumbled onto the story of Mr. Moy and his giant hibiscus because JTB made a comment last week about growing hibiscus in his yard. Texas A&M has chosen three native hibiscus hybrids for special recognition. One is the cultivar JTB grew, Lord Baltimore. Another is Hibiscus 'Moy Grande'. They are the Texas Superstars.

'Flare' has apple green foliage and large, high quality fuchsia red flowers to ten inches wide. Four feet tall, it is a profuse bloomer and has the important advantage of being self sterile which encourages luxuriant rebloom. This wonderful cultivar does great in any soil type, even our sticky, highly alkaline clays. Texans will love 'Moy Grande' because it has the largest, open-face hibiscus flower in the world! The rose-pink blossoms are truly magnificent with diameters reaching a full 12 inches (dinner plate size). This cultivar will grow in acid or alkaline soils. Gives flushes of bloom throughout the summer; prompt removal of spent blossoms will encourage rebloom. 'Lord Baltimore' displays deeply cut, glossy foliage and stunning red flowers up to ten inches in diameter. Five feet tall and self sterile, this improved hybrid prefers neutral to acid soils.

There is also a Peppermint Flare, similar to Flare, but it opens pale pink and turns white, with dark markings.

One thing I think is kinda cool is that you can use many of the big hardy hibiscus flowers as table decorations with no need for water. Moy Grande has a little fragrance from one of its parents, too. In the garden, it is salt-tolerant, which would be a bonus near the seashore, and maybe in the valley where I live.

There are several native American hibiscus species. Many commercial hybrids include more than one species in their background. If you check around, you are likely to find one that does well where you live, even if you live pretty far north in the country. Strains of native Swamp Mallow, including dwarf strains and bicolors, can even be grown from seed. We can discuss specific possibilities in the comments.

Shooting the Hardy Hibiscus

Hardy hibiscus species and their hybrids make good subjects for summertime photo excursions. You can explore your neighborhood or more challenging habitats, like swamps. Photography tips at the link.

Not a bad pursuit if you are taking an "Internet Sabbatical". Just don't send photos out immediately to all your Facebook friends. The photo below is from an excursion on the Dallas Trinity Trails.

Garden-related destinations and events

The San Antonio Botanical Garden

The botanical garden where Mr. Moy worked, is open year round. They have some fun events there, and displays change from time to time, sometimes featuring visits by dinosaurs, for example. Construction for expansion of the gardens is currently underway Slideshow here.

This weekend, doggie visitors will be offered treats and pools of water for the Dog Days of Summer. Current themes include Winged Wonders (habitat gardening) and Art in the Garden. Blooms and Brews is coming up on an evening in September.

The plan for the botanical garden was hostaed by two women in San Antonio long before construction began. The garden is mainly on property which includes an abandoned quarry and waterworks which had been deeded to the city. Some of the displays are underground.

California Rare Fruit Growers Event

If you are going to be somewhere near the Central Coast of California at the end of the month, you might consider stopping by by CRFG's Festival of Fruit. Learn something new, maybe taste some rare fruit.

If you would like The Horde to know about a garden event or destination near you (or not near you), let me know.

Local Garden and Produce Reports

After two weeks of 100 plus degree high temperatures, we still have a few Sun Gold tomatoes hanging on. In part shade. Their flavor is better in cooler weather. But they still taste better than the store-bought cherry tomatoes. Mr. Bar-the-Door got some beefsteak type tomatoes from his cousin in the foothills. They have a really acid flavor. But they at least have flavor, unlike those our house guest bought at the store. Funny how tomatoes that look so similar can taste so different.

We have been getting some excellent muskmelons from the local supermarket, cheap. Every year we find some as good as those we have ever grown. Though we have grown other types of melons that were better. I have not grown regular muskmelons for several years. A hot, dry climate like ours is also suited to specialty melons (mostly "Late Melons") that can't be grown well in much of the country. I'm not growing those this year, either. Long story.

The melons we have been buying recently are from Los Banos, across the Valley and to our north. Sweet, with complex flavor and no harsh ketone notes. The fruits have a melting texture. It is always encouraging when the grower's name is on the sticker.

Anything going on in your garden? Have you found any interesting produce at the Farmer's Market lately?

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 WHAT

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at August 06, 2016 12:29 PM (5o5ek)

2
No, nothing's going on in my garden. I was looking for the Olympics thread, because an American swimmer just took a HUGE lead from a Japanese guy for the *G*O*L*D*

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at August 06, 2016 12:30 PM (5o5ek)

3 iforgot says God bless Snorky

Do we need a new Olympics Thread?

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:32 PM (qahv/)

4 Getting damned depressed in my garden. Squash and tomatoes are the only thing working out. I've had 1 good cucumber (not plant)out of the 6 plants i bought, 2 sweet pepper plants have grown and have wilted without a pepper, my Anaheim peppers are growing but not rippening. Thought i'd see 1 pumkin started by now out of the 50 flowers i have seen. Wax beens started well but a rodent chomped them up a bit ( but got that little bastards babies I did) but they are growing so maybe i'll get more.

Posted by: Skip at August 06, 2016 12:38 PM (bksJQ)

5 Eggplants are coming on, and I plan to make babagaouj eventually, and apples.

Local trees are breaking branches this year.

I am on my 4th dozen pints of applesauce, and I have lots more to can

Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2016 12:38 PM (ry34m)

6
No, nothing's going on in my garden. I was looking for the Olympics thread, because an American swimmer just took a HUGE lead from a Japanese guy for the *G*O*L*D*
Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at August 06, 2016 12:30 PM (5o5ek)

3 iforgot says God bless Snorky

Do we need a new Olympics Thread?
Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:32 PM (qahv/)
---------------------

No, we don't. I was just wondering if there was an official one, WHICH WE DON'T NEED.

And by the way . . . it was a prelim. No gold.

[slinks away]

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at August 06, 2016 12:40 PM (5o5ek)

7 Skip at August 06, 2016 12:38 PM

Sorry about all the frustrations, Skip.

Is there some purslane out there you could eat?

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:42 PM (qahv/)

8 Which kinds of tree branches are breaking, Kindltot?

We will be looking for recipes soon. Here or the Food Thread.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:44 PM (qahv/)

9 Apple trees are so loaded that the branches are breaking, especially at the houses where they don't prune them back.
I trimmed mine and my dad's last winter.

I also may get broken branches on my one plum tree too.
I will have fruit running out of my ears, and more applesauce than I know what to do with.

Oh, and boatloads of peppers, but even the jalapenos are not hot yet

Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2016 12:48 PM (ry34m)

10 iforgot says God bless Snorky

Ace's thread from yesterday is getting long, but I think it may still work.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:50 PM (qahv/)

11 We've got stuff growing, but pests are eating the hell out of it before we get any.



In other news, we drove up to San Francisco yesterday, and on the way back we noted large areas of dried-out trees on the hills off of 280. Looks like a helluva fire waiting to happen.

Posted by: cthulhu at August 06, 2016 12:51 PM (EzgxV)

12 What kind of plums do you have, Kindltot?

You might try summer pruning your deciduous fruit trees if you want to limit tree size. Doesn't trigger a burst of growth at the cut like dormant pruning does.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:52 PM (qahv/)

13 cthulhu at August 06, 2016 12:51 PM

If they were oak trees, there might be disease issues in addition to water issues. Same goes for a few other species of trees. Insect issues in the case of some conifers.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:55 PM (qahv/)

14 Just tending to the crops at Weasel Acres. Might've inadvertently broken one of the cucumber vines while training it to climb a trellis.

Posted by: Weasel at August 06, 2016 12:57 PM (Sfs6o)

15 Wow, KT, nice to see the SA Botanical garden featured. I've grown Mr Moy's ginormous hibiscus, but didn't know his personal history. Some friends have been growing the papayas at their home for years.

I helped brainstorm the new Family garden they're building, and that was a lot of fun. We'll see how it turns out on a tight budget.

I also have a variety of desert willow developed at the garden. The director at the time had a quirky sense of humor, and when asked what to call the new plant, he said "I dunno, how about Bubba?" So I have the Bubba desert willow.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 06, 2016 12:59 PM (ozZau)

16 Skip, I wish we were neighbors! I've got more cucumbers than we need, for sure. I started seeds in March to get a head start. Tomatoes and peppers are ripening faster than we can eat 'em and I have a couple of eggplants growing.

Our farmers' market picks today were corn, peaches picked yesterday and oysters gathered this morning.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at August 06, 2016 01:01 PM (GzDYP)

17 Skip at August 06, 2016 12:38 PM

Hope you get some more beans. Are you planting any greens or anything for fall?

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:04 PM (qahv/)

18 13
cthulhu at August 06, 2016 12:51 PM

If they were oak trees, there
might be disease issues in addition to water issues. Same goes for a
few other species of trees. Insect issues in the case of some conifers.


Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:55 PM (qahv/)


It's usually some combination of factors. But there were hillsides (under houses) that looked about 1/2 dead.

Posted by: cthulhu at August 06, 2016 01:06 PM (EzgxV)

19 stace...TEXIT at August 06, 2016 12:59 PM

It is fanastic that you are so involved with the botanical garden. Looks like a great place to visit.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:07 PM (qahv/)

20 I have little room, I usually just grow a couple of pots of tomatoes. This year I haven't gotten one--something is eating the flowers. Just the flowers, even the flower stem is undamaged. I have a scarlet runner bean--I have three flowers showing color, up to now they've been picked off in the same way. I'd guess insects except there's no leaf damage. Just the flowers gone.

Posted by: Lirio100 at August 06, 2016 01:08 PM (WY8ka)

21 Weasel at August 06, 2016 12:57 PM

Sorry you may have lost a plant. But in my experience, trellising cukes is really worthwhile. Hope the other plants make up for it.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:09 PM (qahv/)

22 My brother, parents and I spent a few hours at the SA botanical garden a few years ago. It is a lovely place. There are a number of different habitat rooms that emulate climates from equatorial rain forest to Sonoran desert. It was awesome.

Posted by: huerfano at August 06, 2016 01:11 PM (jkkMG)

23 So I have the Bubba desert willow.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 06, 2016 12:59 PM (ozZau)

That's pretty awesome, right there!

Posted by: OldDominionMom at August 06, 2016 01:13 PM (GzDYP)

24 cthulhu at August 06, 2016 01:06 PM

That is so scary. Years ago I saw a wildfire racing up a hill toward a home off I-10 in Los Angeles County. Still remember the feeling of dread.

Also saw a canyon wildfire from the air while landing at the Orange County airport. Later watched it, with others, from the side of the road. So terrifying.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:14 PM (qahv/)

25 Lirio100 at August 06, 2016 01:08 PM

Both tomatoes and scarlet runner beans drop blossoms when the weather is hot. Hope you get some to stick a little later. Try misting plants in the morning and mulching the roots to keep them cool.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:16 PM (qahv/)

26 Just out of curiosity, did anyone else find the picture of the woman fondling the papaya as suggestive as I did? No?

I'll go now.

Posted by: Pep at August 06, 2016 01:20 PM (LAe3v)

27 Thanks KT. Hopefully it will pull through, he's a spirited little guy with a lot of heart, but just wasn't as large and robust as his big brother. And now this tragedy.

Posted by: Weasel at August 06, 2016 01:20 PM (Sfs6o)

28 stace...TEXIT at August 06, 2016 12:59 PM

I looked up Bubba. To 30 feet, few seedpods, hardy to ten below. Fragrant flowers. Sounds nice.

We have a lot of chitalpas used as street trees in our town. Never seen a desert willow (one parent of the chitalpas) here.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:29 PM (qahv/)

29 Just watering the pots daily. The self seeded 'wild cherry tomato' is producing lightly. The aji peppers are going nuts. Most everything else is just limping along.

Posted by: gingeroni at August 06, 2016 01:31 PM (GIqnq)

30 What kind of plums do you have, Kindltot?
[ . . . ]


Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 12:52 PM (qahv/)

The plum is a volunteer, so it is some sort of mutt. The fruit is yellow, canned peach orange when it is cooked, very sweet and tasty, but they are about as long as my thumb and almond shaped.
Normally you would cut it down and buy another one, but every year it puts down so much fruit, even in a bad year, that I run out of shelf space and canning jars.

It was a good year for apples here. Everyone's trees are loaded and there are a lot of trees you see with branches propped up with 2x4s
Oh, and I have lots of pears, too. Gah. Cornucopia overflowing. Did I tell you my Jerusalem artichokes are now over 8-1/2 feet tall and no flowers yet?

Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2016 01:33 PM (ry34m)

31 KT This started before the weather got really hot, it's been going on since I put the plants out. My Italian arum got eaten to the ground, not a berry left, and that's supposed to be poisonous! It's just been a really weird summer.

Posted by: Lirio100 at August 06, 2016 01:33 PM (WY8ka)

32 I should go look for something as i have a area that my lettuce was but pulled it out awhile ago. The pumpkin and 2 squash plants are really taking over but they are low and i cage my tomatoes so they are over them. One thing i found on a walk a old heavy galvanised wire used for house sales is now holding up my pepper plant. Its H shaped so i could support branches.

Posted by: Skip at August 06, 2016 01:35 PM (bksJQ)

33 I'll go now.[.i]

Wasn't just you. I thought she was hot.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:39 PM (fiGNd)

34

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:39 PM (fiGNd)

35 Suck it Barrel !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:40 PM (fiGNd)

36 Where my hoe at?

Posted by: Insomniac at August 06, 2016 01:42 PM (0mRoj)

37 Thanks, huerfano and Old Dominion Mom.

KT, yes they're pretty popular here because they bloom on and off all summer and don't need water. My son just moved into a new, very urban apartment in Austin, and it has a row of carefully pruned desert willows out front. they grow naturally in far West Texas, sometimes right by the road.

I didn't know what a chitalpa was until my mom had one planted at her house. That's a pretty tree.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 06, 2016 01:43 PM (ozZau)

38 Want to plant a gravy bush to go with my highbiscuits.

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at August 06, 2016 01:44 PM (ucB75)

39


Wonderful thread!
A lot of work.

You will need to grow several of them as some are male plants, some female and some are bisexual.

Sounds similar to Holly bushes.
I have one of the bi's.

I also have some of the grafted apple trees, where the crab apple needed for pollination is grafted on the same tree. No fruit yet, but they are growing well. They are still very new.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 06, 2016 01:44 PM (qCMvj)

40 Checked out Ms. Texas Fig again.

Yeah ... she's cute. I'd pollinate it.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:46 PM (fiGNd)

41

My garden is going strong, small as it is.

My sweet red peppers are finally turning a bright red! They look lovely. I'm worried that I'll be gone for a while, with hubby in charge of the garden.

The main raised bed has a drip system on timer, so that is cool, just other potted plants, like other tomatoes, peppers and many many herbs. I have another time system for a sprinkler for them when we travel, but I went overboard this year, with some huge potted plants near the raised bed versus on the deck where the others are.

I've been having to water every other day.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 06, 2016 01:47 PM (qCMvj)

42 I have one of the bi's.

I'm sure its affinity for Melissa Etheridge and flannel shirts was a dead giveaway.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:48 PM (fiGNd)

43
Some of my roses are blooming another round, but my lavender bush is fading I love those flowers, the look, and the wonderful smell.

Currently soaking my front lawn. It's not very happy, not enough rain.

Which reminds me, I have to go check on it.

Happy Gardening!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 06, 2016 01:50 PM (qCMvj)

44 I'm sure its affinity for Melissa Etheridge and flannel shirts was a dead giveaway.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:48 PM (fiGNd)

I love Melissa!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 06, 2016 01:50 PM (qCMvj)

45 I'd give my left nut for her to trim that damn thing. Just once.

Posted by: Mr. Mallow at August 06, 2016 01:50 PM (fiGNd)

46 I love Melissa!

... and I'm not here to judge. Your private life is your business.

Posted by: Mr. Mallow at August 06, 2016 01:52 PM (fiGNd)

47 My Holly bush that almost died last year came back healthy this spring. Has lots of Holly berries. I guess a little Winter moisture made all the difference.

Posted by: Ronster at August 06, 2016 01:53 PM (7AtW1)

48 My Holly bush that almost died last year came back healthy this spring. Has lots of Holly berries. I guess a little Winter moisture made all the difference.

Sometimes the jokes practically write themselves ...

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:56 PM (fiGNd)

49 Kindltot at August 06, 2016 01:33 PM

Wow. What a summer you are having.

Can you tell if your volunteer plum is a European or Asian type? The European types tend to grow slower (the trees, not the fruit). If you knew, you might be able to graft a known cultivar onto the tree.

Ia ir freestone?

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:57 PM (qahv/)

50 Can you tell if your volunteer plum is a European or Asian type?

Easy enough to check ... give it an Algebra problem.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:58 PM (fiGNd)

51 artisanal 'ette at August 06, 2016 01:50 P

Thanks for the report. I'm allergic to lavender, but I like its look, too. Would probably be happier around your roses, though.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 01:59 PM (qahv/)

52 Lirio100 at August 06, 2016 01:33 PM

That is frustrating. Is the soil or watering schedule different from other years? Do they have good drainage?

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:03 PM (qahv/)

53 ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 01:58 PM

Heh.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:04 PM (qahv/)

54 In all seriousness ... had something weird this year. I think my cucumbers cross-pollinated with my honeydew melons. The melon vines are making some bizarre stunted green lime looking thing.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 02:06 PM (fiGNd)

55 A Vole wandered into my deep root watering bucket and couldn't get out. I sprayed it with Raid. It died. Poor bastard.

Posted by: Ronster at August 06, 2016 02:06 PM (7AtW1)

56 Skip at August 06, 2016 01:35 PM

Remember, if cold weather sets in, you can always pick greens as baby leaf. So fancy!

I like the pepper support you described.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:09 PM (qahv/)

57 ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 02:06 PM

More likely that your honeydew has a virus or something. Cukes and melons are not related closely enough to cross easily.

On the other hand, if your honneydew doesn't look like it will make it to maturity you could peel it when immature and use it like a cucumber. Might have to seed it. Honeydews are related to Armenian cucumbers, which are actually melons.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:12 PM (qahv/)

58 Some folks don't like the flavor of a ripe papaya but you can also use them as a vegetable in a curry. I work with some Indian nurses who dice or grate them with shredded (unsweetened) coconut and onions in a curry sauce and it is delish. The papayas at the chain grocers are usually super ripe but you can buy the green papayas from the Indian/Pakistani grocers. Ask if they have any in the back if you don't see them on the shelf. Those stores are an absolute paradise of veggies and spices.

Posted by: dreadpirateroberta at August 06, 2016 02:12 PM (z1kKI)

59 So far, green and yellow beans have each been harvested once. Corn is now tasseled. Yellow squash is almost ready. Tomatoes are flowering. And we have several embryonic pumpkins beginning to develop. The leaves on the pumpkin plant are huge, and it has tendrils that seek out, and strangle weeds...slo motion fun to watch.

Cucumbers are developing nicely. We planted mint in areas where we wanted extra weed control, and those plants are just taking off. Purple cabbages are heading up, (and each plant takes up a lot of space). The fresh chives are great.

Next year, we'll add garlic, and asparagus, and expand our garden so that we can add more corn, more tomatoes, and get some decent peppers in too. Also, better weed control , better use of space, and maybe some composting to make use of the weeds, and other detritus.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at August 06, 2016 02:13 PM (S8UbH)

60 On the other hand, if your honneydew doesn't look like it will make it to maturity you could peel it when immature and use it like a cucumber.

I tried that with one ... just on a lark. Had a gritty, chalky taste. Not good at all.

Whatever happened - it didn't hurt the Butternut Squash one row over. Oh well - they can't all be gems.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 06, 2016 02:14 PM (fiGNd)

61 KT, it is a European plum, the leaves are like an Italian or a Brooks prune. The house had some Brooks prunes in the back, but the graft died and the rootstock sprouted up and they were these horrible short lived round yellow plums that mostly good for attracting yellow jackets. This tree is a volunteer from a pit that sprouted, I think, and a winner.

going off to the Steam up at . . . of all places, Brook Oregon, and if you are in the area and like steam engines and the original types of gasoline and fuel oil engines, it is a good weekend.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2016 02:15 PM (ry34m)

62 We have a Bubba tree also, they can get pretty big. They are a good xeriscape tree.
The San Antonio botanical gardens are really neat, they have a great orchid house too. We like to go when it is not so hot! They had a great Lego exhibit a couple of years ago. They recently purchased the property next to the gardens and demolished the rent houses. Apparently the tenants used to shoot at the big glass houses in the gardens and it cost a fortune to replace the glass. I am always amazed at the stupidity of some people.

Posted by: dreadpirateroberta at August 06, 2016 02:20 PM (z1kKI)

63 Something demolished all of our peaches and grapes earlier this season. Don't know if it was the big wind storm or critters, but one day we had fruit growing and the next day it was ALL gone.

Weirdest thing....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at August 06, 2016 02:20 PM (Saqzi)

64 We just finished harvesting first batch of sweet corn, second batch will probably be ready next weekend or so. The ears are smaller than commercial stuff, but they *are* very tasty! (Ferry-Morse 'Peaches and Cream Hybrid')

Glass Gem corn is starting to tassel, and grew taller --in container!-- than the sweet corn in the ground. Smh, but it's all good.

It's been 100 degrees, give or take 5, every day for a couple of weeks so tomatoes are only ripening what was already formed at the start of our heatwave... That's okay because I hadn't planned on canning. I'm sure they'll resume production shortly.

We've gotten a few peppers, zucchini is coming on strong, one acorn squash vine-- will provide enough for us to enjoy.

I saw a vine-borer (wasn't hooked up to a mate, thankfully) this morning and sprinked Sevin around.

Okra isn't producing much YET, but we'll have enough for frying very soon.

Our apple trees are loaded this year, too. Branches were bent down to the ground and had some breakage, but they needed pruning anyway.

Honestly, I feel so bad about wasting the fruit-- we don't spray, so the apples and cherries are very wormy-- (organic! ...right?) not very appetizing. Still eat a few, of course!

If I didn't have to work full time and yadda yadda yadda, I'd a'been sprayin and thinnin and preppin for applesauce, -butter and -cider and a few bags of snackers. Would've made cherry preserves and perhaps taken fresh fruits to farmers' market. (This may actually become part of the retirement plan, if my body can still hack it by then.)

Had to laugh at that occupy the farm group. Bunch of oversized brats, did they think "There's an App for That" so they could strut their asses around, shove a few seedlings in the dirt and it'd all take care of itself? Lol. Mommy and Daddy must be so proud of them.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 06, 2016 02:24 PM (044Fx)

65 I think our garden is mostly through for the summer. While we didn't get huge amounts of anything the summer squash, cherry and Roma tomatoes, and bell peppers were enough to give us plenty of fresh eating and were especially delish this year. Due to likely family matters we won't be doing any fall planting this year, except maybe some leaf lettuce.

Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2016 02:27 PM (V+03K)

66 KT Nothing is particularly different this year, it's just all around weird. I've grown that Italian arum (jack in the pulpit family) for over twenty years, never had it eaten. The tomato and bean flowers look bitten off, the calyx is gone too. Like a true gardener (!) I'm already deciding what to do next year. I do have space in the back for a small raised bed, which I'm going to cover with netting in hopes that will help.

Posted by: Lirio100 at August 06, 2016 02:29 PM (WY8ka)

67 KT, Thanks for the information about Mr. Moy. It is inspiring. I wonder if he attributes his survival to his devotion and interest in flora. Certainly it would be a hoot to grow some papayas in a container.

I've mentioned in the past that we haven't done much with flowers the last few years. (Okay, make that decades.) But as we try to make the back yard more enjoyable for more of the year it would be nice to have a few spots for flowers. Daffodils, of course, and lilies for Mrs. JTB. A stand of some of those gorgeous hibiscus would be welcome. Also, they look like they would attract bees and humming birds.

Establishing these flower beds, given our alleged soil, wouldn't be easy but doing so would be a measure of getting back in shape and getting past all the aches and minor injuries that plague us in our sixties.

Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2016 02:35 PM (V+03K)

68 Hi gardeners, any animal lovers here?
Pet thread is Nood

Posted by: L, Elle, wearing black, mourning Maetenloch's departure at August 06, 2016 02:40 PM (6IPEM)

69 dreadpirateroberta at August 06, 2016 02:12 PM

I think that maybe green is the best way to use the Mexican type papayas. I have some misgivings about eating too much papaya green and raw, though. I think the papain might start breaking down your mouth tissues.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:40 PM (qahv/)

70 Tomorrow we start the "great herb drying marathon". Rosemary, mint, thyme, parsley, and others are all at a good point and I don't want to lose them to woodiness or drought. The timing is good as well since we have used most of what we dried last year. I already have plans for them in certain recipes.

Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2016 02:41 PM (V+03K)

71 60 I dunno Scogg - sounds like something not of this Earth.

Posted by: Weasel at August 06, 2016 02:43 PM (Sfs6o)

72 Sticky Wicket at August 06, 2016 02:13 PM

Sounds like you have a good plan. Nice to hear that you are already getting good production.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:43 PM (qahv/)

73 I tried one of the Piel de Sapo type melons as a cucumber when our big dog pulled up the plant when the melons were about 2/3 of the way to maturity. They were nice. Sweeter than a regular cuke, though.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:45 PM (qahv/)

74 Kindltot at August 06, 2016 02:15 PM

Maybe you DO have a winner. Might want to share it with people who are into such things.

Have a great time with the steam engines.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:47 PM (qahv/)

75 dreadpirateroberta at August 06, 2016 02:20 PM

Interesting information.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:48 PM (qahv/)

76 Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at August 06, 2016 02:20 PM

Strange and discouraging.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:50 PM (qahv/)

77 We don't get any gardening magazines, as such, but I do pick up issues of Birds and Blooms magazine. It has fantastic photography of birds and flowers and some decent advice about growing various plants. Mrs. JTB nd I are casual bird watchers. And as I try to teach myself to draw (difficult without much talent) I use photos of birds as models. I look forward to each new issue.

Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2016 02:51 PM (V+03K)

78
I have lots of purslane growing on my place. I do nothing to discourage it, as I've been aware of its nutritional value for a while. I'm gonna try the recipes in the link. Thanks KT!

The transmission or axle broke on my zero turn mower yesterday. Waiting for Lowe's to deliver the new one. They were supposed to be here at noon. It's almost 2:00.

That was $3400.00 I wasn't expecting to spend this weekend!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 02:51 PM (4DCSq)

79
63 Something demolished all of our peaches and grapes earlier this season. Don't know if it was the big wind storm or critters, but one day we had fruit growing and the next day it was ALL gone.
Weirdest thing....
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at August 06, 2016 02:20 PM (Saqzi)

I nominate the usual suspects... deer and/or raccoons.

Posted by: Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 02:54 PM (4DCSq)

80 JQ Flyover at August 06, 2016 02:24 PM

A first class, comprehensive report/!

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:55 PM (qahv/)

81 Lirio100 at August 06, 2016 02:29 PM

Hope the netting helps. Have you seen any critters?

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:55 PM (qahv/)

82 JTB at August 06, 2016 02:35 PM

Sounds like some of those hibiscus cultivars are really adaptable when it comes to soil. Good luck with adding more flowers to your garden.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:57 PM (qahv/)

83 Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 02:51 PM

That is a chunk o change!

If you know anybody with chickens, purslane is supposed to be good for them, too. Adds Omega 3 to the eggs.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 03:00 PM (qahv/)

84
If you know anybody with chickens, purslane is supposed to be good for them, too. Adds Omega 3 to the eggs.
Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 03:00 PM (qahv/)

Hey! I have chickens! Great idea.

Posted by: Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 03:04 PM (4DCSq)

85 KT Just the ones I've always had around--squirrels, chipmunks, the odd rabbit or two. Townhouse community in NOVA. Lived here nearly 30 years, never had this kind of problem before. At this point I don't think I'll get much, I'm just really curious!

Posted by: Lirio100 at August 06, 2016 03:20 PM (WY8ka)

86 If you live in the valley you are probably aware of how cooling and delicious hibiscus tea can be, especially if you add a little mint or a lemon slice. I like to mix a family size tea bag of the hibiscus tea and a small one cup size of the lipton black teton.

Posted by: Ruth H at August 06, 2016 03:23 PM (l9C+M)

87 So, after an initial 'good haul' all my squash plants are only producing female flowers - is there anything I can do fertilization-wise?

Posted by: plum at August 06, 2016 03:36 PM (ThIzl)

88 Sounds like you have a good plan. Nice to hear that you are already getting good production.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 02:43 PM (qahv/)



We didn't get fully moved in until it was too late to get a regular garden in. We wanted something though, and planted a lot of stuff that can take care of itself.

Next year will be better...and we'll be adding chickens, for eggs, meat, and fertilizer.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at August 06, 2016 03:46 PM (S8UbH)

89 Forgot to mention the other day watering i saw a garden toad only about a inch long, hope he sticks around.

Will lettuce grow again in Sept if i plant it?

Posted by: Skip at August 06, 2016 04:09 PM (bksJQ)

90 Jamaica is a Mexican hibiscus used to make a summer drink, steeping the petals to make a concentrate and adding sugar and water, like lemonade. So of course I fermented some. It is a lovely red color and works fine with dried flowers available in the Mexican store.

Posted by: lurking grandma at August 06, 2016 04:16 PM (2VaQu)

91 The thai's make a spicy green papaya salad that is savory and did I mention spicy? It's really good. I cannot stand ripe papaya. Blah!!!

I have two youn fig trees I planted around 3-4 years ago. Any tips on pruning them? What time of year is best?

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at August 06, 2016 04:23 PM (iw3TK)

92 Hi, Lindafell. I don't know a darn thing about fig trees, or gardening in Texas, but here's a link to try:

http://www.texasgardener.com/pastissues/janfeb11/Pruning.html

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 06, 2016 06:01 PM (044Fx)

93
Angry looking red and yellow thunderstorms heading this way. Don't need anymore lightning struck trees, but the outflow boundary has dropped the temp by about 20 degrees. Bonus!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 07:24 PM (4DCSq)

94 T-storms predicted here tonight. Hope there's some a whole lot of rain 'cuz it's a tinderbox.

Cooler temps would also be welcome!

Posted by: JQ Flyover at August 06, 2016 07:46 PM (044Fx)

95
From earlier, new mower was delivered from Lowe's, four hours later than promised.

Battery is dead!

Argggh!!!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 07:57 PM (4DCSq)

96 Ruth H at August 06, 2016 03:23 PM

Yes. But I have generally seen cold hibiscus tea as "agua fresca". It is made from a special kind of hibiscus, also called Roselle. We wrote about it once.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/2column-35214.php

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:12 PM (qahv/)

97 plum at August 06, 2016 03:36 PM

Interesting how squash plants seem to start out with male blossoms and sometimes finish with female blossoms. The only remedy I can think of is to plant a fast-growing one to provide more male blossoms. In the meantime, maybe you could eat some squash blossoms.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:18 PM (qahv/)

98 Sticky Wicket at August 06, 2016 03:46 PM

We will be looking forward to hearing about your garden next year.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:19 PM (qahv/)

99 Skip at August 06, 2016 04:09 PM

I hope your toad does well.

I would go for more lettuce in September. Some varieties will not germinate in soil over 80 degrees, so you might want to start some indoors. I have harvested pretty good sized baby leaf lettuce from the bottom of barbecued chicken containers with potting mix (punch holes in the bottom). If you have a hard freeze, you can bring them indoors again or put them on the porch.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/35682.php

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:26 PM (qahv/)

100 lindafell TEXIT!! at August 06, 2016 04:23 PM

Sunset says to prune figs lightly in winter and pinch back errant shoots at any season.

As I recall, figs may not recover well from pruning cuts on big branches, so you want to train your tree in the shape you want while it is young. Figs are related to mulberries, which also sometimes suffer after big pruning cuts.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:34 PM (qahv/)

101 Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 07:57 PM

That's a lot of money to spend on a machine with a dead battery.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:39 PM (qahv/)

102 Thanks KT!

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at August 06, 2016 08:46 PM (iw3TK)

103
101 That's a lot of money to spend on a machine with a dead battery.

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:39 PM (qahv/)


No doubt! There will be an unhappy call to customer service in the am. In the meantime, the battery in the dead machine is just fine...

Posted by: Spun and Murky at August 06, 2016 08:49 PM (4DCSq)

104 96
Ruth H at August 06, 2016 03:23 PM

Oops. Got a 404 on the link. This one may work better.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/353214.php

Posted by: KT at August 06, 2016 08:50 PM (qahv/)

105 Sorry I missed this thread, as I do often. Have to work Sat.

I'm just cleaning the garden mostly. Harvesting yellow onions, beets and still a few peas. Oh, and green beans.

Posted by: Farmer at August 06, 2016 09:48 PM (o/90i)

106 Peas in August, Farmer?

Pretty amazing.

Posted by: KT at August 07, 2016 12:32 AM (qahv/)

107 Treasure Valley (Boise, ID): Almost forgot to report in. We were busy bottling raspberry wheat beer this afternoon. Unfortunately, it doesn't taste at all like raspberry - next time we try this, the juice doesn't go in the carboy, it goes in right before the bottling.

Fortunately, raspberries are nearly ready to start the 2nd season of fruit - berries nearly fully formed, and already blushing red. We could try the beer again, but it's more likely we'll do jelly.

Corn smut turned up on 2 ears. I know it's edible but I'm not interested in trying it. Both entire stalks tossed out. We plan to strip half the corn patch of its ears soon, then pull out the stalks and dry them for fall decorations. The ground will be sprayed for weeds, and in a week or so, we'll plant fall snow peas. (Also need to clean up one bed that's currently empty, to try fall carrots and radishes in.)

Interesting to find out from this thread about purslane. Not interested in eating that either. I want it all dead; it's one of the many annoying weeds on my property (along with crabgrass and goat-heads).

I really need to eat more zucchini, and process it faster. I think I have 15 of 'em in the refrigerator, several more that I looked at today will be ready tomorrow; but corn processing is scheduled first. My right hand will fall off by the time I shuck all that corn and grate all that zucchini... (Good thing I can shoot a handgun left-handed too!)

Green beans producing, but slowly.

Was this the week I pulled all my spring carrots?, I think - froze those too.

Romas continue to be "determinate variety, my a**!" Starting to seriously produce, as are the other tomato types. We eat some form of tomatoes almost ever night.

We have 9 raised beds - we built "bed #12" this week (named for its location in the eventual building plan). This one has plastic dividers in it, so I can transplant herbs into it and the roots will stay corralled (lookin' at you, spearmint!).

Posted by: Pat* at August 07, 2016 01:19 AM (qC1ju)

108 Wow. You have been busy, Pat*.

When I lived in the Intermountain West, I always thought the fall crop of the "everbearing" raspberries tasted better than the spring crop. Be sure to eat some fresh,, maybe freeze some. Have you considered raspberry/peach preserves?

Some determinate tomatoes bear all their fruit at once. Some bear over a longer season. Keep track of the variety you planted if you like it.

The key to controlling purslane is to get it off the ground before it flowers. Otherwise, it can set seed even after it is pulled. The succulent stems keep the plant alive for some time. And the goatheads - they set seed so fast. But you can leave the plants on the ground, upside down, if you dig them out before they flower.

You may need to start leaving zucchini on the neighbors' front porches. Heh.

Thanks for the report. Gives some of the rest of us hope.

Posted by: KT at August 07, 2016 09:09 AM (qahv/)

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