How To Talk To Your Relatives About Global Warming At Christmas Dinner

Just kidding. Over at Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire, a really persuasive case against global warming.

Here's point 7:

7. The CO2 cannot, from a scientific perspective, be the cause of significant global temperature changes:

The CO2 molecule is a linear molecule and thus only has limited natural vibrational frequencies, which in turn give this molecule only limited capability of absorbing radiation that is radiated from the Earth’s surface. The three main wavelengths that can be absorbed by CO2 are 4.26 micrometers, 7.2 micrometers, and 15.0 micrometers. Of those 3, only the 15-micrometer is significant because it falls right in range of the infrared frequencies emitted by Earth. However, the H2O molecule which is much more prevalent in the Earth’s atmosphere, and which is a bend molecule, thus having many more vibrational modes, absorbs many more frequencies emitted by the Earth, including to some extent the radiation absorbed by CO2. It turns out that between water vapor and CO2, nearly all of the radiation that can be absorbed by CO2 is already being absorbed. Thus increasing the CO2 levels should have very minimal impact on the atmosphere’s ability to retain heat radiated from the Earth. That explains why there appears to be a very weak correlation at best between CO2 levels and global temperatures and why after the CO2 levels have increased by 40% since the beginning of the industrial revolution the global average temperature has increased only 0.8 degrees centigrade, even if we want to contribute all of that increase to atmospheric CO2 increases and none of it to natural causes.

Posted by: Ace at 01:16 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Course not.

Posted by: HH at December 24, 2015 01:17 PM (DrCtv)

2 waste of time. you might as well try to convince a Jesuit that the Pope isn't the head of the Church.

Posted by: mallfly at December 24, 2015 01:18 PM (qSIlh)

3 How about teaching them not to become leftists

Posted by: Skip at December 24, 2015 01:19 PM (k0xxN)

4 Arguing with leftards is truly a waste of time.

Posted by: steevy at December 24, 2015 01:20 PM (8HTq1)

5 How to talk to your relatives about global warming at Christmas dinner:

There's the door.

Posted by: Methos at December 24, 2015 01:20 PM (ZbV+0)

6 I was told there would be no science on this thread.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2015 01:21 PM (8ZskC)

7 So the bottom line is Al Bore and the Demoncraps are all liars. The head of the UN agency has already admitted the whole thing was a fraud to extort money from the rich western countries and give it to third world shit holes.


But we still have liars like Obama screaming about non-existent global warming.

Posted by: Vic-we have no party at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (t2KH5)

8 You lost me at "talk to your relatives".

Posted by: antisocialist at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (cDs+4)

9 Serve them cold food and hot water for dinner.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (YtbIl)

10 "Where da money?No speaka da english."

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/222264/

Posted by: steevy at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (8HTq1)

11 I would just toss out, "because of string theory" and leave it at that.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (8ZskC)

12 Dont' confuse them with facts.

Posted by: oldbuffalo at December 24, 2015 01:23 PM (/pOl7)

13 Trouble is, you can't use science to argue with these fcukers because they're convinced that Humanity is a bad thing and needs to be stopped so they'll invent and create other plausible (but unproven or unprovable) theories on why Climate Change still exists.

As you yourself has said it's more like a religion (or cult) than science.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:23 PM (Xo1Rt)

14 natural vibrational frequencies

Yeah, baby!

Posted by: Austin Powers at December 24, 2015 01:24 PM (FkBIv)

15 Dennis Prager yesterday had a conversation with a guest about the reasons leftists have been trying to promote global warming. I didn't get to hear all of it but part of it was about human downsizing of global impact.

Posted by: Skip at December 24, 2015 01:24 PM (k0xxN)

16 You see, Billy, when corrupt politicians and money-hungry academics with no integrity love each other very very much...

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 24, 2015 01:24 PM (kpqmD)

17 Will we be tested on this?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2015 01:24 PM (8ZskC)

18 Plus, look at their spokes people.

Dyson

Bill Nye

Al Gore

That's trifecta of stupid right there.

I wouldn't ask either of those guys for directions let alone theories about the weather.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:24 PM (Xo1Rt)

19
I personally am worried much more about global cooling. Warming times in history appear to have helped increase human population and food, cooling periods brought starvation and misery.

Plus more bikinis when its warm, so bonus!

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 24, 2015 01:24 PM (ODxAs)

20 The willfully ignorant cannot be educated. Eliminate them from your life.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at December 24, 2015 01:25 PM (nu+il)

21 NASA is also now re-claiming that pollution and deforestation is causing global COOLING!
https://twitter.com/SteveSGoddard/status/679109853088890880

Posted by: andycanuck at December 24, 2015 01:25 PM (DLIIY)

22 And actual measured temps have been decreasing since 1998 but you never hear that from the MFM.

Posted by: Vic-we have no party at December 24, 2015 01:26 PM (t2KH5)

23 "You lost me at "talk to your relatives".


Come on now, Aunt Betty makes a nice jello-salad.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:26 PM (jfGh+)

24 Persuasive Case < Religious Adherance

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 24, 2015 01:26 PM (fWAjv)

25 My view is the sun and planet rotation has a lot more to do with it, the great lakes will again someday be under a mile of ice and there isn't a lot you can do about it

Posted by: Skip at December 24, 2015 01:26 PM (k0xxN)

26 Using facts and logic to reason someone out of a position they emoted themselves into? I see no possible way that could go wrong.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty, unperson from Free Market Jesus Paradise at December 24, 2015 01:26 PM (cygkw)

27 Tyson not Dyson.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:27 PM (Xo1Rt)

28 Science vs Dogma

The fight never ends.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 24, 2015 01:27 PM (r65B3)

29 Who you jiving with that cosmic debris?

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at December 24, 2015 01:27 PM (nu+il)

30 7 So the bottom line is Al Bore and the Demoncraps are all liars. The head of the UN agency has already admitted the whole thing was a fraud to extort money from the rich western countries and give it to third world shit holes.


But we still have liars like Obama screaming about non-existent global warming.
Posted by: Vic-we have no party at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (t2KH5)


Yes. Yes, we do.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 24, 2015 01:27 PM (WWdgA)

31 My invitations at Christmas specifically point out that anyone under my roof who gets strident about a political opinion contrary to my own, will promptly have a hambone shoved up their anus, after which they will be unceremoniously drop-kicked into the front yard in their underwear.

My in-laws know exactly how serious I am, and how capable I am of carrying this out. It should come as no surprise that holiday celebrations are now much more pleasant in my home. At least, for me.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:27 PM (iIzG7)

32
Tyson not Dyson.

Vacuous either way.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 24, 2015 01:28 PM (ODxAs)

33 Plus more bikinis when its warm, so bonus!

You said it! Woo hoo!

Posted by: Madeleine Albright at December 24, 2015 01:28 PM (kpqmD)

34 29 Who you jiving with that cosmic debris?
Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at December 24, 2015 01:27 PM (nu+il)


What king of a guru are you, anyhow?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 24, 2015 01:28 PM (WWdgA)

35 Come on now, Aunt Betty makes a nice jello-salad.

That's true, but does she have to use the penis shaped jello mold every year?

Posted by: Blanco Basura at December 24, 2015 01:29 PM (YJmuy)

36 We are more likely to be entering a mini ice age like there was a hundred years ago than cooling due to the decrease in solar surface activity.

We'll have sunk money into the wrong answer and it might kill us. But then to the green lefties, that's a feature not a bug.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:29 PM (Xo1Rt)

37 Did he have another point where CO2 follows and does not precede an increase in temperatures?

However, their complaints are not real. CO2 or temperatures rising, falling, or staying suspiciously the same would all be cause for alarm and more government regulations.

Posted by: t-bird at December 24, 2015 01:29 PM (mxCgt)

38 27 Tyson not Dyson.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:27 PM (Xo1Rt)

They both suck. Hard.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 24, 2015 01:29 PM (kpqmD)

39 Doesn't matter, we are already paying for it with power utilities being 'forced' to move to wind & solar, driving up energy rates and making the electric grid less reliable. We have lost the argument in practical terms to PAY homage to their religion.

Posted by: Mark in Portland at December 24, 2015 01:29 PM (QJBko)

40 How to talk to your relatives about global warming at Christmas dinner:


For all those, who believe that manmade-CO2 caused global warming and/or climate change is a

fraud perpetrated by socialist scumbags trying to destroy the US economy and the Middle Class-

here's a nice Standing Rib Roast with Yorkshire Pudding and all the fixings cooked in a CO2 generating gas oven.

For those of you who believe that manmade-CO2 is destroying the planet and the greatest danger we face-

there's a dead rabbit and a skinning knife on the back porch.

Everyone enjoy their meals in accordance with their personal beliefs.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 24, 2015 01:30 PM (KUa85)

41 The article is another way of saying that the atmosphere is optically thick. Not unlike Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2015 01:30 PM (LAe3v)

42 For those of you who believe that manmade-CO2 is destroying the planet and the greatest danger we face-
there's a dead rabbit and a skinning knife on the back porch.


You should make them catch their own rabbit.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 24, 2015 01:31 PM (FkBIv)

43 "20
The willfully ignorant cannot be educated. Eliminate them from your life."


The willlfully left cannot be changed. The have a religion and a God and damned if they be deterred from it.


More. Harder,

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:31 PM (jfGh+)

44 Yo!

Posted by: Yo! at December 24, 2015 01:31 PM (GwIKd)

45 What the hell, man.

Who's this guy, bringing science and data into the discussion of Globall Warmening?

What does any of that have to do with how I FEEEEL about it?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2015 01:32 PM (TOk1P)

46 It should give them and others pause to realize how complicated the Earth's Atmosphere really is and yet it works to our benefit for the most part. And is self regulating.

Tell me that happened by random chance.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:32 PM (Xo1Rt)

47 "You should make them catch their own..."

... tofurkey and sprouts.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:32 PM (iIzG7)

48 Yo!

Posted by: Yo! at December 24, 2015 01:31 PM (GwIKd)

YO!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:32 PM (Xo1Rt)

49 9 Serve them cold food and hot water for dinner.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (YtbIl)

...

11 I would just toss out, "because of string theory" and leave it at that.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero)

...

threadwinners!

Posted by: ace at December 24, 2015 01:33 PM (dciA+)

50 Or the classic Ace...

Why? Because fcuk you, that's why.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 24, 2015 01:33 PM (YtbIl)

51 ... tofurkey and sprouts.




Posted by: Qoheleth


Grubs. Here's a standing dead tree. Enjoy.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2015 01:33 PM (LAe3v)

52 The very local coal/oil power plant has shut down since Barak came El Presidentie

Posted by: Skip at December 24, 2015 01:33 PM (k0xxN)

53 You should make them catch their own rabbit.

Carbon conservation dictates that they cut off their own nose.

Posted by: t-bird at December 24, 2015 01:33 PM (mxCgt)

54 Witch Doctor say evil spirits warming Gaia, yo.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at December 24, 2015 01:33 PM (oVJmc)

55 Here's point 7:

That's the one BB Wolf and I were "So there"ing about.

Posted by: DaveA at December 24, 2015 01:34 PM (DL2i+)

56 Why aren't you listening? The science has been settled. Denier! Burn the heretic. Give me money!

Posted by: Saint Al of the Beloved Thermometer at December 24, 2015 01:34 PM (wQESN)

57 For those of you who believe that manmade-CO2 is destroying the planet and the greatest danger we face-



there's a dead rabbit and a skinning knife on the back porch.



Everyone enjoy their meals in accordance with their personal beliefs.



Posted by: naturalfake at December 24, 2015 01:30 PM (KUa85)


Damn, I don't like rabbit. Can I have a dead hooker instead?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2015 01:34 PM (TOk1P)

58 just tell em Jesus will solve everything as long as they're saved, and then bust out with the ole Present Testament and start preachin

they'll show themselves out.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at December 24, 2015 01:34 PM (F+xWX)

59 you might as well try to convince a Jesuit that the Pope isn't the head of the Church.

It's the Superior General.

Posted by: Aramis at December 24, 2015 01:34 PM (2lndx)

60 Not to rain on Shapiro's parade, but a scientifically literate liberal family member (oxymoron?) would actually be able to proclaim that this is MORE global-warm-y, not less.

If water vapor is better at absorbing global-warm-y infra-red than CO2 (and it is), then the more the temperature goes up, the more vapour comes off the sea, and more water vapour floating around in the air absorbs more IR, so it warms up more, causing more evaporation, which means OMG STOP RETHUGLICANS NOW BEFORE WE ALL DIE!!1!!1

So... uhh... just prep yourselves for that line of defense, I guess.

Posted by: Butler at December 24, 2015 01:35 PM (LCbQg)

61 I am very fortunate to live within 15 miles of a gas fired generator and 25 miles from 2 nuke plant units.

I'll take the chance of glowing a bit just so's I don't freeze my pattoot off this winter. (although so far it's like fall out there and not winter.)

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:35 PM (Xo1Rt)

62 16 Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016

Threadwinner!

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 24, 2015 01:35 PM (u82oZ)

63 Have fun with this. Cuz I am a lazy dumb ass sometimes, I now get to go brave the other lazy dumb asses in the crowds at the grocery store. Send help after 2 hours.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty, unperson from Free Market Jesus Paradise at December 24, 2015 01:36 PM (2z4UX)

64 If water vapor is better at absorbing global-warm-y infra-red than CO2
(and it is), then the more the temperature goes up, the more vapour
comes off the sea, and more water vapour floating around in the air
absorbs more IR, so it warms up more, causing more evaporation, which
means OMG STOP RETHUGLICANS NOW BEFORE WE ALL DIE!!1!!1


Doesn't matter. If all of the radiation in a particular frequency is absorbed by water, adding more water won't matter.

A better argument might be that it matters in which part of the atmosphere it's absorbed. But the counter to that would seem to be that's it's better that it's absorbed higher up (optically thicker) than closer to the ground (optically thinner). But what do I know.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2015 01:37 PM (LAe3v)

65 Anyway, still sitting here.

I forgot what we we're fighting about.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:37 PM (jfGh+)

66 gotta go to the SILs for Christmas eve stuff

later all

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at December 24, 2015 01:37 PM (F+xWX)

67 Will we be tested on this?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero)


The second Tuesday of next November.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 24, 2015 01:38 PM (FkBIv)

68 I forgot what we we're fighting about.


Posted by: Ricardo Kill


Does it matter?

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2015 01:38 PM (LAe3v)

69 One point I haven't heard made is that we know the Earth's climate goes up and down in cycles. Cyclic oscillations are characteristic of a negative feedback system, but the global warming models all depend on a positive feedback system to reach their frightening results. If we did have a net positive feedback system on Earth it would have gone full Venus on us long before humans appeared.

Posted by: Socratease at December 24, 2015 01:38 PM (2GbWn)

70 Ha! You dittoheads don't even know that 97% of all scientists agree with global warming and gender fluidity.

Posted by: Your leftist relatives at December 24, 2015 01:39 PM (Z+7WE)

71 Sure but fire bends steel!

Posted by: PJ at December 24, 2015 01:39 PM (cHuNI)

72 I shocked my brother-in-law two years ago at Christmas by telling him I was glad that he'd bought his Honda Pious... er, Prius, I mean. I told him it was a noble sacrifice, and that he was being considerate of his fellow man.

"For instance, your vehicle choice leaves that much extra gasoline for me to pour into the tank of my V-8 Mustang for me to enjoy," I said in conclusion.

If he were as smart as he pretends he is, he would have seen that punch line coming. But he's not.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:40 PM (iIzG7)

73 I forgot what we we're fighting about.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:37 PM (jfGh+)

***

Longbows
.45
Mary Anne
Civil War

Posted by: ManWithNoParty, unperson from Free Market Jesus Paradise at December 24, 2015 01:40 PM (2z4UX)

74 Science proves Ace is a poopy pants.

Posted by: Neil Dumbass Tysoneon at December 24, 2015 01:40 PM (gyKtp)

75 #1 - It's a grant scam from lefty academics who want you to die.

Posted by: DaveA at December 24, 2015 01:41 PM (DL2i+)

76 Welp, now that Christmas Dinner and AGW fraud has all bee sorted out-

it's time for another...



Porny XXXmas Family Sing-a-Schlong*


Up on the rooftop Reindeers hump
Santa squats over you taking a dump
A Cleveland Steamer for Christmas Day
Were you naughty or nice?
Who can say?...



Everybody, sing-a-long!




*Now with bonus moral relativism!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 24, 2015 01:41 PM (KUa85)

77 As the MIT physicist called it - "the greatest fraud in scientific history".

But it's way, way beyond that. It's been a decisive, final unmasking of not just a huge segment of the American political class (they are, in fact, authoritarians with no identifiable link to historically American political or civic sensibilities) and - more importantly - of our fellow "citizens".

Even though, through surveys, it appears the ludicrous conjecture of AGW (that's what it is) has never captured mass support, there is still a substantial portion of the populace that swallows this idiocy, and even worse the electorate, as a whole, actually allows itself to be herded, controlled, and (in terms of opportunity costs) impoverished by this nonsense.



Posted by: rhomboid at December 24, 2015 01:41 PM (QDnY+)

78 Anyway, still sitting here.

I forgot what we we're fighting about.


Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:37 PM (jfGh+)


We were debating whether it was time to put you in a home or not.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2015 01:41 PM (TOk1P)

79 "Does it matter?"


No, it really don't, pep.


Unless I or a another pop up and say something.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:41 PM (jfGh+)

80 "Longbows
.45
Mary Anne
Civil War"


Three outta four ain't bad, bro.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:42 PM (iIzG7)

81 *sticks fingers in ears* SHUT UP!!!

Posted by: Hollywood at December 24, 2015 01:42 PM (8TdcF)

82 Their plans destroyed, the eco-terrorists retreat to their refuge deep in the Brazilian rain forest, hoping to negotiate a deal to return to the United States. Clark, knowing that they may never be put on trial, tracks down the Brazilian hideout and deploys Rainbow to the location. After Rainbow defeats the eco-terrorists' militia force and destroys their facility and supplies, Clark has the survivors stripped naked and left to die, taunting them to 'reconnect with nature.' When no survivors resurface in nearby towns, one agent notes that although people try to preserve nature, nature is not known for returning the favor.



*sigh*

One can dream

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 24, 2015 01:43 PM (fWAjv)

83 If only there were something to explain these temperature fluctuations.

It would have to be massive, though ...

Posted by: Phinn at December 24, 2015 01:43 PM (cAMIF)

84
Just start screaming "ALVIN !!!!!!" anytime they bring up stupid lib talk.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 24, 2015 01:43 PM (ODxAs)

85 78 Anyway, still sitting here.

I forgot what we we're fighting about.


Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:37 PM (jfGh+)


We were debating whether it was time to put you in a home or not.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2015 01:41 PM (TOk1P)
***
No, we'd already decided to do it. We couldn't agree if it would be the one we saw on 60 Minutes, Dateline NBC, or Ghost Hunters.

(For the record, I was for a smother party, but the motion didn't carry.)

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 24, 2015 01:44 PM (Wu2k4)

86 Yo!



Posted by: Yo! at December 24, 2015 01:31 PM (GwIKd)

YO!


Mom - Santa has been in the eggnog again.

Posted by: DaveA at December 24, 2015 01:45 PM (DL2i+)

87 The Koch Brothers are raising global temperatures to sell us all iced tea, wingnutz.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at December 24, 2015 01:45 PM (oVJmc)

88 "Longbows
.45
Mary Anne
Civil War"

Three outta four ain't bad, bro.




Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:42 PM (iIzG7)


*Loads bolt into crossbow*

Which three?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2015 01:46 PM (TOk1P)

89 I've taken to a new tactic recently amongst the few who still dare to challenge me when I say Global Warming is a hoax. I ask, "if the theory is correct, what are your thoughts on a possible explanation for the lack of the water vapor positive feedback loop which has thus far failed to occur?"

I've yet received no response other than dumb stares.

Posted by: mugiwara at December 24, 2015 01:46 PM (D5hxK)

90 "It would have to be massive, though ..."

On the scale of left-wing gasbags and the flatulence of ruminants.

Or the flatulence of a left-wing gasbag, late in returning to a debate.

Or a gigantic ball of hydrogen fusion, but where would we find that?

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:47 PM (iIzG7)

91 Well, small science nitpick, CO2 actually has more total vibrational frequencies, but H2O has more infrared-active vibrational frequencies capable of absorbing IR radiation.

But other than that, yeah, it is pretty solid.

Posted by: chemjeff at December 24, 2015 01:47 PM (uZNvH)

92 >>When no survivors resurface in nearby towns, one agent notes that although people try to preserve nature, nature is not known for returning the favor.

One of my Brazilian customers spent part of his childhood in Manaus, the capital city of the Amazon region. We made a visit up there to a customer facility and he was showed me around the city.

He was laughing at the PC western culture that is so worried about saving the rain forest. He claims people have no clue how aggressive and resilient the rain forest is and said that we don't need to save the rain forest from the people, we to save the people from the rain forest.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 24, 2015 01:47 PM (/tuJf)

93 "We were debating whether it was time to put you in a home or not."


Dude, I'm like 40.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:47 PM (jfGh+)

94 He sounds very sciency and all (which has never worked before), but I think he loses all that science cred when he says "That explains why there appears to be a very weak correlation at best between CO2 levels and global temperature".

No, it does not "EXPLAIN" that. My point being that in a very complex system well beyond our capability, no one piece explains the whole. At best he could say "that might will explain why", but in the complexity, none of this is a full conclusion. There is no "proof" presented to say "it is proven".

It is not proven, that this is not just a "pause", or that CO2 has some other influence besides its activity as a greenhouse gas. (The greenhouse gas thingy has been absurd from the start). For example, there is indeed a greening effect in arid areas, that changes the globe, almost certainly a result of higher CO2. That in turn perhaps raises overall atmospheric vapor levels. But then probably none of that matters because it is the sun cycles or odd aerosol combinations that have caused the trends, or the various tidal cycles beyond the decadal oscillations we have so far analyzed.

When he says "that explains why" he is saying "the science is settled", which "we" should really refrain from saying. imo My best science says more CO2 is good for the greening of the world and us, and not falling for the scam is also good for us. Open the coal mines ... win win win.

Posted by: Illiniwek at December 24, 2015 01:47 PM (5Gpe2)

95 then the more the temperature goes up, the more vapour comes off the
sea, and more water vapour floating around in the air absorbs more IR,


Nope, it's not more H2O = more warm
it's H2O + CO2 are already absorbing all there is.

"It turns out that between water vapor and CO2, nearly all of the
radiation that can be absorbed by CO2 is already being absorbed."

Posted by: DaveA at December 24, 2015 01:48 PM (DL2i+)

96 And the people who believe in global warming don't believe in it due to "science", they believe in it for emotional and ideological reasons - because it affirms their pre-existing belief that human activity is bad bad bad for the planet, and because it gives them cover to do what they always want to do, seize control of the economy.

Posted by: chemjeff at December 24, 2015 01:48 PM (uZNvH)

97 Want a good read that is weather-centric, go for the one I am halfway through right now, "The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl."

It was by far the most significant weather event of the 20th century, one which began with the Galveston hurricane of 1900, killing between six and twelve thousand people.

In what could be called the gambling casino of agriculture, wheat farmers ripped up the natural prairie grasses of over 550 million acres of the high prairie parts of Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, Nebraska to plant grain. When the wet years of the 1920s ended and the long drought of the 1930s ensued, dust storms blew away the topsoil, the winds carrying it as far as the grand banks off Newfoundland.

It is a really well-told story.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at December 24, 2015 01:48 PM (U6f54)

98 Dude, I'm like 40.


Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 24, 2015 01:47 PM (jfGh+)


Hence, the debate. Otherwise the decision would be easy.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2015 01:49 PM (TOk1P)

99 Grr.

"[Water] is a [bent] molecule, thus having many more vibrational modes"

No. Water has three, CO2 has four, but two occur together, so three are observed. The rule is 3N-6 for nonlinear molecules, 3N-5 for linear molecules, N = number of atoms.

If Shapiro wants to write an article explaining why The Science shows CO2 can't actually be a significant greenhouse gas, he should really get this right. There are a lot of bad scientific arguments, retailed by people who don't quite understand them but think they do, on the CAGW side. Let's not make our own.

Posted by: JPS at December 24, 2015 01:49 PM (9ziuC)

100 I find that when I start writing down differential equations on the back of a napkin, the crowd of people who want to argue about anthropogenic global warming abruptly thins out, usually to zero.

Protip: do not use Aunt Tillie's heirloom linen napkins for this purpose. Carry a few paper ones in a pocket.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 24, 2015 01:49 PM (noWW6)

101 "Which three?"

You don't see me pining for Ginger, do you? Heh.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:49 PM (iIzG7)

102 91
Well, small science nitpick, CO2 actually has more total vibrational frequencies, but H2O has more infrared-active vibrational frequencies capable of absorbing IR radiation.

But other than that, yeah, it is pretty solid.


Posted by: chemjeff


Sure, sure, once again, the brown guy gets ignored.

Posted by: Raman at December 24, 2015 01:50 PM (LAe3v)

103 I would just toss out, "because of string theory" and leave it at that.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2015 01:22 PM (8ZskC)
__________

LOL

'Must Be Quantum' after all.

Posted by: mustbequantum at December 24, 2015 01:50 PM (MIKMs)

104 Speaking of science...

Just overheard Milady talking to daughter in the kitchen: "The way I'd do that recipe is, first convert it to metric and divide. So, (something something) about half a cup." Whoa!

This is why I stay out of the kitchen when they're at work! That, and sharp implements.

Posted by: mindful webworker - what, me math at December 24, 2015 01:50 PM (UOsvH)

105 95
then the more the temperature goes up, the more vapour comes off the

sea, and more water vapour floating around in the air absorbs more IR,

Nope, it's not more H2O = more warm
it's H2O + CO2 are already absorbing all there is.


Well not only that, but there is a natural feedback mechanism to get rid of excess water vapor, called clouds and rain.

More clouds = greater atmospheric albedo = less IR absorption
More rain = less water vapor in atmosphere

Posted by: chemjeff at December 24, 2015 01:51 PM (uZNvH)

106 Sure, sure, once again, the brown guy gets ignored.


Posted by: Raman at December 24, 2015 01:50 PM (LAe3v)

Hey, you have tasty noodles, what more do you want???

Posted by: chemjeff at December 24, 2015 01:51 PM (uZNvH)

107 The linked article makes a few good points but only begins to make the case for how un-scientific AGW theory is. AGW violates all the tenets for how you do real science.

During the Soccer World Cup before last, a foreign TV station had an octopus pick the winner of key matches by which flag it swam to in its tank. This one octopus went on a roll and picked eight or nine matches in a row including the final.

If your thesis was "this octopus is clairvoyant" it'd have more proof than AGW.

Doing real science requires skepticism, especially about your own work.

If you took all the CO2 in the atmosphere and turned into a dry ice solid, by my math, you'd get a crust on the oceans about 1/2 inch thick. That so little relative mass could be a big driver in the Earth's temperature doesn't stand to common sense reason.

Then you dig a little deeper and you find that all the AGW models essentially ignore variability in the Sun's output and how much reaches Earth given that Earth does not have a simple orbit and actually wobbles as it goes around the Sun, which may explain why I'd be sitting under a mile of ice if I was writing this just 20,000 years ago.

Biggest hoax in history?

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 24, 2015 01:51 PM (rs5De)

108 >>90 "It would have to be massive, though ..."



Lucky for your lady, the Paolo is here.

Posted by: Paolo at December 24, 2015 01:51 PM (dudW8)

109 One (more) thing that is devastating and inexplicable. In our deadened, lazy, irresponsible political culture, there is no figure or group attacking this nonsense head-on. Publicly deconstructing and ridiculing the whole thing and those using it to control and impoverish the country/world would seem to be, I dunno, sort of an obvious thing to do for someone in the public square.

Apart from Sen. Inhofe of OK, has *any* federal elected official ever done this? I mean to make news, make headlines, and not to stop, not to back off. To force the issue. The limp hearing chaired by Cruz recently was the sort of thing that should be frequent, and much more dramatic.

And how about defunding/barring EVERY federal action related to this idiocy? From "alternative" fuels for Navy ships to research $$$ to budgets for agencies caught altering/hiding data, to subsidies for fake "green" energy - why not a harsh and very high-profile effort on this front?

Hmmm. It's almost as if the political class, incl. the "conservative" and GOP part, are lazy, unserious, incompetent, out of touch, and irresponsible.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 24, 2015 01:52 PM (QDnY+)

110 What to discuss with your family about what gifts you want this year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAhFrafFyNc

Posted by: Kindltot at December 24, 2015 01:52 PM (q2o38)

111 The Lefties say the Sun does not affect the climate.

Hmm, odd that the thing that creates the climate somehow doesn't affect it.

The data will win out in the end, but not before there has been much conflict and suffering.

Posted by: eman at December 24, 2015 01:52 PM (mR7Es)

112 I also try to tell people that they shouldn't trust the AGW models, because none of them can accurately model even clouds, and if they can't get even a single cloud right, how can you rely on their supposed predictive power 100 years from now?

Posted by: chemjeff at December 24, 2015 01:52 PM (uZNvH)

113 DO NOT QUOTE THE PLAGIARIZING FUCKERS AT TTAG!

This PSA brought to you by Dan Zimmerman, Intellectual property thief

Posted by: GGE Hades of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 24, 2015 01:52 PM (npWmN)

114 I'm a simple kinda of guy, so I go with the simple 'Shut the Fuck up"

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2015 01:52 PM (DUoqb)

115 If water vapor is better at absorbing global-warm-y infra-red than CO2 (and it is), then the more the temperature goes up, the more vapour comes off the sea, and more water vapour floating around in the air absorbs more IR, so it warms up more, causing more evaporation, which means OMG STOP RETHUGLICANS NOW BEFORE WE ALL DIE!!1!!1

So... uhh... just prep yourselves for that line of defense, I guess.

Posted by: Butler


A 'scientifically literate' person would know that there is no way to 'control' water vapor. And as pep noted, the heat uptake is still limited by a curve.

The earth's climate is a dynamic one with negative feedback. Otherwise we wouldn't have an atmosphere.

Also, think about it; If you somehow could increase the amount of water vapor, it's just going to precipitate and cool back down.

The warmists' biggest problem is that they have to invent a whole new mechanism that's never been observed to allow for positive feedback.

It's a pseudo-religion. Far past time to take a page out of the Leftists' playbook and mock the shit out of them.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 24, 2015 01:53 PM (9YDUz)

116 83 If only there were something to explain these temperature fluctuations.

It would have to be massive, though ...
Posted by: Phinn at December 24, 2015 01:43 PM (cAMIF)


I'm not massive. I'm big-boned.

Posted by: El Nino at December 24, 2015 01:54 PM (WWdgA)

117 Man-caused Climate Disaster is not a myth!

Posted by: The Easter Bunny at December 24, 2015 01:54 PM (riElP)

118 "How To Talk To Your Relatives About Global Warming At Christmas Dinner"

Ask them one, simple question:

What is the correct temperature of the earth?

Posted by: Happy Fun Ball at December 24, 2015 01:55 PM (fDGAU)

119 We've been schlonged by science!

Posted by: Global Warming Believers at December 24, 2015 01:56 PM (22uju)

120 She blinded me with pseudo science!

Posted by: Thomas Dolby at December 24, 2015 01:58 PM (FkBIv)

121 "We've been schlonged by science!"

- Relatively unknown song recorded by Lester Dolby, younger brother of Thomas.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:58 PM (iIzG7)

122
How To Talk To Your Relatives About Global Warming At Christmas Dinner



Light the candle with one of these.

http://tinyurl.com/ozm7tcl

Posted by: DaveA at December 24, 2015 01:59 PM (DL2i+)

123
"[Water] is a [bent] molecule


ooooo, It'll scratch your eyes out.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at December 24, 2015 01:59 PM (oVJmc)

124 400 ppm (CO2 concentration in the atmosphere) is equivalent to four one-hundredths of a penny.

If the climate were sensitive to tiny things like that, the Earth would be a hellhole.

Posted by: eman at December 24, 2015 01:59 PM (mR7Es)

125 Lookie, a product review not in English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=
player_detailpagev=XemwWenFg9w#t=46


Posted by: DaveA at December 24, 2015 02:00 PM (DL2i+)

126 The water molecule kinda looks like a Mickey Mouse hat.

Posted by: eman at December 24, 2015 02:01 PM (mR7Es)

127 People of reason know that global climate warming change is a massive fraud perpetrated on the wilfully ignorant, hand-wringing worry warts. What 97% of the scientists know about the earth's history of ice ages and warming is forgotten and only the computer models that show impending doom are important to them.
The people of reason will eventually be proven correct, but the worry warts will say the impending doom was prevented by The One. The One stopped the rising oceans. The One kept us from having to wear shorts and Hawaiian shirts 365 days a year. Hooray for The One.

Posted by: Hank at December 24, 2015 02:01 PM (AqfcR)

128 More clouds = greater atmospheric albedo = less IR absorption
More rain = less water vapor in atmosphere
Posted by: chemjeff at December 24, 2015 01:51 PM (uZNvH)


and this is even more exciting because there is some indication that the level of activity of the sun - that is high sunspot and low sunspot periods - deflects varying amounts of cosmic rays: cosmic rays are a major driver of cloud formation.
As the highly active particles hit the atmosphere they cause ionization track at high altitudes that cause condensation of water droplets.

Low sunspot activity deflects less cosmic rays, so are linked with greater cloud cover. This is a theory, with worked out mechanism, and if we are in for the newest solar minimum, we will find out, right?

Posted by: Kindltot at December 24, 2015 02:02 PM (q2o38)

129 Illiniwek and JPS touched on key points (chemjeff too).

My version (sort of) of what they just said: the planet's climate is not a system - or system of systems - that is well understood. Like many things in the natural world. Normal, humble scientific modesty and skepticism turned towards "climate science" naturally results in considering that area an "infant science" (to borrow a macroeconomic term).

The observed proxy history of climate (geologic etc.) does not yield any clear understanding of how/why the planet's climate evolved, aside from a few instances. And all of these, and the most plausible unproven things (like solar output), are things far beyond the scale of anything man could ever reproduce.

There is no reason - based on data and logic - to consider current or recent climate changes unusual, and no reason to think that man has affected the situation. The inter-glacial/glacial pattern that we know to have been our history for (500,000?) years is not understood, and we are right in the range for this pattern.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 24, 2015 02:02 PM (QDnY+)

130 Just looked at the record highs and lows in the Philadelphia area for December 31st.

64 degrees for high temp record 1884 GLOBAL WARMING!!!!
0 degrees for low temp record 1880 GLOBAL COOLING!!!


I scrolled through all 365 days of record highs. Amazing how many record highs were over a century ago for about 25 years. Post civil war to 1899.

Posted by: free range jihadist at December 24, 2015 02:03 PM (7v/r5)

131 "It's almost as if the political class, incl. the 'conservative' and GOP
part, are lazy, unserious, incompetent, out of touch, and irresponsible."

The unmistakeable tell was the moment when alleged "conservative firebrand" Newt Gingrich sat on a sofa next to Bela Pelosi to sanctimoniously lecture those of us in the serf class about global warming.

This stuff all boils down to sweeping new powers for government, and large new infusions of money for government, and both wings of the Permanent Bipartisan Fusion Party are frankly delighted at the prospect.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 24, 2015 02:03 PM (noWW6)

132 - Relatively unknown song recorded by Lester Dolby, younger brother of Thomas.
Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:58 PM (iIzG7) Lester Dolby was a punk, Santino could have taken him.

Posted by: The Godfather at December 24, 2015 02:05 PM (22uju)

133 I made the sun come up this morning.

Posted by: Red Rooster at December 24, 2015 02:05 PM (FkBIv)

134 Longbows
.45
Mary Anne
Civil War"


I wanted Ginger. Always did.
She would make me a man.
Was I wrong?

Posted by: Diogenes at December 24, 2015 02:05 PM (VAVIJ)

135 the smart guys long ago looking beyond CO2 greenhouse gas silliness, were calculating albedo stuff ... and more recently found major errors since they saw clouds as massive and broad, which are much different than fluffy and scattered. The movement or the different "masses" of air makes a big difference apparently.

The guy I knew years ago (he died, but was a "top men" math guy working directly on this) pointed me toward the albedo thingy. He said they were not even close to having a real working model. That is obvious from how bad their models have been so far. It is good they keep trying, not good they use it to destroy our free society.

Posted by: Illiniwek at December 24, 2015 02:06 PM (5Gpe2)

136 131 Yep.

Posted by: steevy at December 24, 2015 02:06 PM (8HTq1)

137
I never understood who they thought the earth was for if not humans.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 24, 2015 02:06 PM (ODxAs)

138 I wanted Ginger. Always did.

She would make me a man.

Was I wrong?
Posted by: Diogenes at December 24, 2015 02:05 PM (VAVIJ)


Oh, Honey, look to me if you want someone to make you a man

Posted by: Dr. Frankenfurter at December 24, 2015 02:07 PM (q2o38)

139 97
Want a good read that is weather-centric, go for the one I am halfway
through right now, "The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who
Survived the Great American Dust Bowl."

Posted by: the littl shyning man at December 24, 2015 01:48 PM (U6f54)



And the irony is the government caused that disaster. Everybody who lived in that area told them they were making a huge mistake plowing up the prairie grass to make farms. But the government always knows best. The prairie was good for feeding cows and bison. And the land has still not recovered from that mistake.

Posted by: Vic-we have no party at December 24, 2015 02:07 PM (t2KH5)

140 Dyson

Bill Nye

Al Gore

That's trifecta of stupid right there.

I wouldn't ask either of those guys for directions let alone theories about the weather.


Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 24, 2015 01:24 PM (Xo1Rt)


You mean Tyson, I hope? As in Neil, the gassy one? Because physicist Freeman Dyson is somewhat of a Global Warming skeptic, and certainly not a cheerleader for AGW "theory".

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 24, 2015 02:07 PM (UsLZp)

141 Some idjit on Twitter put me and WeirdDave on some kind of AGW Denier list/group.

Then blocked us.

Nice.

Wear it as a badge of honor, we do.

Posted by: speedster1 at December 24, 2015 02:08 PM (1brdf)

142 I just sharted. This does not contribute to global warming because it was a solid, not a gas.

Posted by: Hillary "Felon" Clinton at December 24, 2015 02:09 PM (22uju)

143 We still have so little understanding of this stuff that the Biosphere II crew were unable to maintain homeostasis in their comparatively simple little sealed environment.

But, hey, let's spent uncounted trillions of dollars we don't have, and cripple economic growth at a time when we're starving for it, and imperil the stability and reliability of our energy supplies, and wreck our national security, because statistical models which didn't work for Biosphere II over two years will surely work for the entire far more complicated planet over a time frame of a century.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 24, 2015 02:09 PM (noWW6)

144
Shorter version: it is so much bovine scatology.

Posted by: I R A Aggie at December 24, 2015 02:10 PM (wPVDQ)

145 >> Oh, Honey, look to me if you want someone to make you a man.
>> Posted by: Dr. Frankenfurter at December 24, 2015 02:07 PM

I will vouch that he can, and in just seven days.

Posted by: Rocky at December 24, 2015 02:11 PM (nSW/N)

146 You're a fucking idiot.

Posted by: Mr Czolgosz at December 24, 2015 02:11 PM (/VKdZ)

147 " I forgot what we we're fighting about.


Posted by: Ricardo Kill

Does it matter?

Posted by: pep"

What makes AOSHQ great summed up in a nutshell.

Merry Christmas to all !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez (rock salt and fire-hook at the ready !) at December 24, 2015 02:11 PM (erRNA)

148 The Earth began a general cooling trend about 30 million years ago. Ice Ages began about 3-5 million years ago. Right now we are in an interglacial warm period within an amazing ice age.

We do not know why the cooling began 30 million years ago. We do not know why the present ice age began a few million years ago. We do not know why the cycle of glacial advance and retreat has changed its frequency ( the cycles have sped up). We do not know why the ice stops where it does and why it hangs there and why it retreats to where it is now.
We cannot say that the next advance will go as far or not, or even if it will stop at all. There have been cases in the deep past where basically the whole world was covered in ice.

The idea that we have any ability to speak about the climate with authority is just insane.

Posted by: eman at December 24, 2015 02:11 PM (mR7Es)

149 eman,

"400 ppm (CO2 concentration in the atmosphere) is equivalent to four one-hundredths of a penny."

"If the climate were sensitive to tiny things like that, the Earth would be a hellhole. "

Right, but remember that 99+ % of the dry atmosphere (N2, O2, Ar) cannot absorb infrared at all. Going from 0.03% to 0.04% of a strong absorber is not as obviously trivial as it looks.

I do however think the planted assumptions about water vapor feedbacks are crap (see Butler's superb satire at #60), so basically I agree with you.

Posted by: JPS at December 24, 2015 02:12 PM (9ziuC)

150 Autocucumber put in the word amazing.

Posted by: eman at December 24, 2015 02:13 PM (mR7Es)

151 Well we've fucked everything else up, why not the climate, too? I personally, don't give a shit.

Posted by: Weasel at December 24, 2015 02:13 PM (IPirI)

152 Not to toot my own Hipst'ress horn, but I've hated Herblocks's unsubtle cartoon hackery for decades. They were even in my history and civics books as a kid.

(And now I've dated myself. History. Civics. Books.)

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at December 24, 2015 02:13 PM (jR7Wy)

153
Freeman Dyson is somewhat of a Global Warming skeptic, and certainly not a cheerleader for AGW "theory".

Mostly because he believes that we have bigger fish to fry.

Also, because he understands what goes on when you base your future actions on the results of a numerical computer model that is...let us say, incomplete when it comes to the physics involved. Hell, we don't even understand all of the physics involved.

I'm looking at you, boundary layer.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at December 24, 2015 02:13 PM (wPVDQ)

154 There's been talk about closing the local power plant ever since the Mocha Messiah took office. It would devastate the local economy, as well as the local school system. Why do leftists hate public schools?

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at December 24, 2015 02:13 PM (FQKBL)

155 In regards to the Arctic Ocean ice melting, there appears to be a huge effort to hide the fact that a lava/magma flow exists along the Arctic tectonic plate, which is warming the Arctic waters.

The lava emitted from the Gakkal Ridge is warming the waters, which has nothing to do with AGW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwmaadfTR7I

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 24, 2015 02:13 PM (KCQo0)

156 "You mean Tyson, I hope? As in Neil, the gassy one? Because physicist
Freeman Dyson is somewhat of a Global Warming skeptic, and certainly not
a cheerleader for AGW 'theory'."

Ha! That's excellent. Yes, Freeman is a longstanding and acute critic of the nonsense. But there are some other Dysons as well.

If I ever am so unfortunate as to meet Assistant Planetarium Gift Shop Manager Neil DeGrasse Tyson in person, I promise to rush up in full sloppy fanboi mode, and beg for his autograph and a selfie, and then say in parting,

"I just LOVE your vacuum. It's the best one I've ever owned. My carpets have never been cleaner. You, sir, are a true GENIUS and a great benefactor to humanity."

Posted by: torquewrench at December 24, 2015 02:14 PM (noWW6)

157 A clever argument and a pistol is more persuasive than a clever argument.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at December 24, 2015 02:14 PM (MYRZx)

158 >> 126 The water molecule kinda looks like a Mickey Mouse hat.

Observations like this lead to polarization.

Posted by: Duncanthrax the Bellicose at December 24, 2015 02:14 PM (nSW/N)

159 I've changed my mind about global warming. I used to not worry about it. Now I'm in favor of it.

More CO2 is great for the plants. If it warms the earth, great - the polar bears will cope just fine, and I'm willing to accept up to 100,000 penguin refugees.

Posted by: despair at December 24, 2015 02:15 PM (VrdxH)

160 Christmas Eve News Dump! Heavily Redacted Benghazi Emails Released

Nice timing.

Weasel Zippers

The whole government should be fired. What a fuckin disgrace

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2015 02:15 PM (DUoqb)

161 @109 Rhomboid
"there is no figure or group attacking this nonsense head-on"

To his credit, Ted Cruz just held a Senate hearing but he got no support from the other Republicans on his committee.

AGW is no small thing. The Left is using it to fundamentally transform our industrial policy with EPA regulation. All of DC is complicit.

If it weren't for fracking we'd be well and truly f*cked.


Posted by: Ignoramus at December 24, 2015 02:15 PM (rs5De)

162 from the sidebar: one of many reasons why I stopped taking Kevin D. Williamson seriously or reading his emotional drivel.

"Donald Trump may talk like a brownshirt, but the Democrats mean business. "

Posted by: Mortimer at December 24, 2015 02:15 PM (0dcbp)

163 Posted by: Illiniwek at December 24, 2015 02:06 PM (5Gpe2)

I think it's common knowledge that albedo declines as one gets older.

Posted by: CharlieMaddogg'sDildo at December 24, 2015 02:16 PM (Zu3d9)

164 Of course I quit school to become a full time climate activist. Besides, my physics for poets professor didn't even believe that Man is destroying the planet. What a dumbass. I've got to get out there and educate people about the truth.
Is there a vegetarian turkey this year?

Posted by: Justin, the nephew who just dropped out of college at December 24, 2015 02:17 PM (NHtMs)

165 "The data will win out in the end, but not before there has been much conflict and suffering.

Posted by: eman"

Which is exactly why the latest wave in "science" is falsifying the data.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez (rock salt and fire-hook at the ready !) at December 24, 2015 02:17 PM (erRNA)

166 You're a f___ng idiot.
Posted by: Mr Czolgosz at December 24, 2015 02:11 PM (/VKdZ)


Yes, yes I am. I hold up my last 4 girlfriends as both character witnesses and prima facia evidence.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 24, 2015 02:17 PM (q2o38)

167 Posted by: Mortimer at December 24, 2015 02:15 PM (0dcbp)

I think it's a reasonable criticism of Trump. He has made statements that are far less consistent than the drive to a socialist paradise that the Democrats have been ruthlessly pursuing for the last 100 years.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2015 02:18 PM (Zu3d9)

168 "Donald Trump may talk like a brownshirt, but the Democrats mean business. "

Posted by: Mortimer at December 24, 2015 02:15 PM (0dcbp)
-----
I think that's just a reference to his "schlong" comment and a stated desire to have all the Secret Service agents be blonde females in dirndls.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at December 24, 2015 02:18 PM (jR7Wy)

169 eman, exactly what I prefer to start with in this whole discussion (the long record of glacial/inter-glacial, and how little understood that is).

Is there a good single source that comes to mind to smarten up on the details of these long cycles?

In the unlikely event I ever try to open the eyes of the drones I know (they're drones when it comes to almost everything in the world except that which directly affects them), I think setting the table in terms of *known* planetary climate history would be a good framework. In fact, it's all you need, logically, to dismiss most of current climate "science" and all of the alarmism and totalitarian riffs that build on it.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 24, 2015 02:18 PM (QDnY+)

170 "We do not know why the cooling began 30 million years ago."

But it sure as hell wasn't smelting iron or burning fossil fuels. Hell, they weren't even fuel yet, and probably not even fossils.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 02:18 PM (iIzG7)

171 "In regards to the Arctic Ocean ice melting, there appears to be a huge
effort to hide the fact that a lava/magma flow exists along the Arctic
tectonic plate, which is warming the Arctic waters."

Also being stuffed down the memory hole: that when nuclear subs first began to travel under the Arctic ice to the North Pole in the 1950s, they reported having no difficulty at all locating open water at the Pole at the peak of the annual melt. The very thing that we're now being told is unprecedentedly new and only recently first observed.

Damn you, Rickover! Damn you to hell!!!

Posted by: torquewrench at December 24, 2015 02:18 PM (noWW6)

172 The reporters are probably banging each other and every person they can pick up in the hotel bars, so I dont think they mind skipping out on their families.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at December 24, 2015 02:19 PM (iQIUe)

173 169 Rhomboid, just take the easy weasel-way out and adopt a Dont Give A Shit Policy.

Posted by: Weasel at December 24, 2015 02:20 PM (IPirI)

174 nood

Posted by: Vic-we have no party at December 24, 2015 02:21 PM (t2KH5)

175 @155 "the Arctic Ocean ice melting"

While MSM hypes that Arctic ice is melting, there are reports than Antarctic ice is increasing.

One plausible explanation for this is that it\s a cyclical phenomenon caused by the Earth's wobble relative to the Sun.

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 24, 2015 02:21 PM (rs5De)

176 170 "We do not know why the cooling began 30 million years ago."

But it sure as hell wasn't smelting iron or burning fossil fuels. Hell, they weren't even fuel yet, and probably not even fossils.

Posted by: Qoheleth


It's because all the food eaten at the time was organic.

Posted by: My Name is Nobody at December 24, 2015 02:23 PM (NHtMs)

177 Ignoramus, exactly.

I am unable to put into words the wonder and alarm I have at observing the following, heretofore politically inconceivable situation: the coal industry being under deadly assault while the Majority Leader of the US Senate is a member of the "opposition" party ..... from KENTUCKY.

This one, tiny, specific observation is the kind that leaves many of us speechless and despairing.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 24, 2015 02:23 PM (QDnY+)

178 You know, all this whining and whinging about record cold this and record cold that... as far as I'm concerned, that means more snow in more places (and colder beer). That means (and in case there are any lurkers, I mean this in a totally non-rayciss way) I can wish all of you a White Christmas.

Merry Christmas, fellows of the horde! May each of you have all that you could wish for, and may our enemies choke on the word.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 02:23 PM (iIzG7)

179 So the CO2 molecule is like a hambone and H2O is like the turkey wishbone..

Posted by: TexasJew at December 24, 2015 02:24 PM (q3TQG)

180 Posted by: rhomboid at December 24, 2015 02:18 PM (QDnY+)

I don't know of a single source. Try some geology texts and check out YouTube for geology lectures. You may have to stitch together a summary from several sources.

Posted by: eman at December 24, 2015 02:25 PM (mR7Es)

181 I've changed my mind about global warming. I used to not worry about it. Now I'm in favor of it.

More CO2 is great for the plants. If it warms the earth, great - the polar bears will cope just fine, and I'm willing to accept up to 100,000 penguin refugees.

Posted by: despair at December 24, 2015 02:15 PM (VrdxH)


It's pretty well understood that when plants have access to more CO2, they are more temperature and water tolerant (generally both ways), higher CO2 would lead to more and earlier greening, which would leed to a lower albedo, which would cause a certain amount of warming (though who knows how much). The warming would cause more atmospheric H2O, though, which would cause more clouds (and perhaps more snow cover in Winter), which would again raise the albedo, lowering temperatures. Almost like there's some kind of build-in negative feedback that tends to stabilize the system. Huh. Weird.

Posted by: Snoodling World Champion 1997 at December 24, 2015 02:25 PM (k9qR4)

182 "Is there a vegetarian turkey this year?

Posted by: Justin, the nephew who just dropped out of college"

I've actually seen two snowflakes who was still part of academia insist not only that they personally not be served meat at Thanksgiving, but that no meat dishes be allowed to be present anywhere in the entire house.

They used the phrase "no killing", but man, what a buzzkill.

The host tried gracefully and energetically to accommodate them while keeping everyone else comfortable. Since I'm much more bitchy, I would have served every single guest unseasoned tofu loaf and flavorless distilled water (no booze, no sirree) and directed all complaints to the snowflake duo.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 24, 2015 02:25 PM (noWW6)

183 "It's because all the food eaten at the time was organic."

Five million years from now, should the world last that long, archeologists in the future will reveal that the Second Ice Age was caused by Chipotle and Taco Bell.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 02:26 PM (iIzG7)

184 Lunch lady from yesterday was offered her job back.

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA -@DMS1974 at December 24, 2015 02:27 PM (fWAjv)

185 Doods - nood. Rand Paul prepares to be boarded.

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 02:27 PM (iIzG7)

186 More heat releases more water vapor, which forms clouds, reflecting sunlight back into space, cooling the earth. It's a negative feedback mechanism.

Posted by: despair at December 24, 2015 02:34 PM (VrdxH)

187 The rhetorical trap that Al Gore uses is (1) CO2 traps heat -- "it's been proven in a lab", (2) burning fossil fuels releases CO2, ergo (3) the Earth is going to boil over.

If we don't refute this, it turns into an argument over degree, literally, and how much damage to Mother Earth we're willing to inflict. That's where the Overton window is right now.

This has to change.

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 24, 2015 02:37 PM (rs5De)

188 in convincing the family warmists, it takes the science of combining constitutional rights together, to get the preferred reaction. Free speech plus right to arms ... I find presenting my new gun, THEN adding free speech discussion, is more effective.

And along the lines of "just add heat", I find they are more attentive if I stroke the barrel and maybe make one eye twitch a little, while informing them about Pacific Decadal Oscillations.

Posted by: Illiniwek at December 24, 2015 02:40 PM (5Gpe2)

189 60 Not to rain on Shapiro's parade, but a
scientifically literate liberal family member (oxymoron?) would actually
be able to proclaim that this is MORE global-warm-y, not less.



If water vapor is better at absorbing global-warm-y infra-red than
CO2 (and it is), then the more the temperature goes up, the more vapour
comes off the sea, and more water vapour floating around in the air
absorbs more IR, so it warms up more, causing more evaporation, which
means OMG STOP RETHUGLICANS NOW BEFORE WE ALL DIE!!1!!1



So... uhh... just prep yourselves for that line of defense, I guess.

Posted by: Butler at December 24, 2015 01:35 PM (LCbQg)

That is actually kind of how it works...
Then all that humidity falls out as rain and snow. The heavy snow packs don't melt as much in the summer, the glaciers grow and grow... net thing you know Chicago is under a thousand feet of ice, in/about a 150,000 +/- years.
I am a big fan of the 'global warming causes ice ages' theory.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 24, 2015 02:45 PM (T78UI)

190 Just interrupt any and all damn Global Warming hippy conversations with a lecture about how "Old Blood and Guts" kicked some Nazi ass on Christmas in the Battle of the Bulge in 1944, and that if their momma wasn't present and they weren't such pussies, you'd slap the smug right off of their fat baby faces.

Posted by: Fritz at December 24, 2015 02:47 PM (BngQR)

191 We really don't know clouds, at all.

Posted by: Judy Collins at December 24, 2015 02:48 PM (VrdxH)

192 " 31
My invitations at Christmas specifically point out that anyone under my
roof who gets strident about a political opinion contrary to my own,
will promptly have a hambone shoved up their anus,... "

Waste of a good hambone.

Posted by: Steamboat McGoo at December 24, 2015 03:00 PM (RK1ZH)

193
Life is long and full of suffering. Get used to it.

Now, pass the stuffing and shut your ignorant piehole.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 24, 2015 03:23 PM (BK3ZS)

194 155 In regards to the Arctic Ocean ice melting, there appears to be a huge effort to hide the fact that a lava/magma flow exists along the Arctic tectonic plate, which is warming the Arctic waters.

The lava emitted from the Gakkal Ridge is warming the waters, which has nothing to do with AGW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwmaadfTR7I
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 24, 2015 02:13 PM (KCQo0)



Talk about an inconvenient truth.

Posted by: rickl at December 24, 2015 04:28 PM (sdi6R)

195 Funny.... I posted that EXACT same point HERE a number of years ago....

/facepalm

Posted by: BB Wolf at December 24, 2015 04:35 PM (f7rv6)

196 Meanwhile it's 67 at sunset in Pennsylvania on Christmas Eve, and I'm sitting here in a T-shirt and no socks, with the windows wide open.

Kooky weather. But it's only weather.

Posted by: rickl at December 24, 2015 04:39 PM (sdi6R)

197 Heh. I just found this link, courtesy of Transterrestrial Musings:

Christmas Eve 1955 Was Much Warmer

https://tinyurl.com/gn2ywvs

Posted by: rickl at December 24, 2015 04:52 PM (sdi6R)

198 "Meanwhile it's 67 at sunset in Pennsylvania"

I can recall walking the neighborhood on a warm Christmas Day (temp in the 60s) in Hartford CT where I grew up. Probably around 1960.

Posted by: FOAF at December 24, 2015 04:52 PM (p0JMG)

199 So, does this mean if there is a lot of CO2 piped around my growfield, like maybe 1000x atmospheric concentration, the dudes with FLIR won't see me and my crop? (hint: don't fucking try it).

All kidding aside, the nm/wavelength argument sounds good superficially, but the absorption hypothesis has a LOT of problems. The same can be said of the entire global warming "crisis".

Posted by: Arkindole at December 24, 2015 05:33 PM (7+Wf0)

200 "The earth's climate is a dynamic one with negative feedback. Otherwise we wouldn't have an atmosphere. "

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 24, 2015 01:53 PM (9YDUz)

Fair enough. I am just heartened that my warning did indeed enable people to prepare for that line of defense.

Interesting(?) science tidbit aside: this is how microwaves work. They bombard your delicious frozen food with electromagnetic waves at the frequency that bendy water molecules absorb best, and then some of that absorbed bending energy leaks out as side-to-side movement energy - which is heat.

Put something that doesn't have any water in it into a standard kitchen microwave, and it won't heat up at all 'cos it can't absorb at that frequency.

And nary a hockey stick in sight.

Posted by: Butler at December 24, 2015 07:20 PM (LCbQg)

201
"It would have to be massive, though ..."
On the scale of left-wing gasbags and the flatulence of ruminants.

Or the flatulence of a left-wing gasbag, late in returning to a debate.

Or a gigantic ball of hydrogen fusion, but where would we find that?

Posted by: Qoheleth at December 24, 2015 01:47 PM (iIzG7)


On the order of our own sun.(tinyurl.com/zc7wee4)
Quote of the Day III (tinyurl.com/na3vz5b)

Posted by: Phinn at December 24, 2015 09:12 PM (fCWi3)

202 Goddamnit, the hypothesis has ALWAYS been that it is CO2 in the stratosphere that causes the warming. The fact that the absorption band at sea level is saturated by water is NOT news, and this is not a particularly compelling argument against CO2 being a forcing function, since CO2 at sea level is known to be irrelevant by the scientists involved. Jesus.

Posted by: Doug at December 25, 2015 10:56 AM (uCaes)

203 See Now, as Doug shows:

This is precisely why there is no reason to get into the weeds - there is always a counter-counter argument that PROVES manmade global warming is real and will be an extinction level event unless government is given total control over everything right now.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 25, 2015 02:09 PM (T78UI)

204 lol ... right burnt. We really don't know clouds .. at all. which someone above stated, showing Carly is all the science we need. Simon I mean, or Fiorina.


Posted by: Illiniwek at December 25, 2015 04:11 PM (5Gpe2)

205 Goddamnit, the hypothesis has ALWAYS been that it is CO2 in the stratosphere that causes the warming.


What warning?

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie! with purchase of equal or greater value commenter at December 25, 2015 10:15 PM (rwI+c)

206 On a serious note though, the theory, at least as put forth by the IPCC, has always included stratospheric COOLING, the problem is there hasn't been any of that either.


http://bit.ly/1mj17tR

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie! with purchase of equal or greater value commenter at December 25, 2015 10:20 PM (rwI+c)

207 Stay out of the weeds. Focus on the forest.

There isn't anything there.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 25, 2015 11:54 PM (T78UI)

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