Overnight Open Thread (12-2-2015)

Absent any ties to terrorist organizations or even any peaceful political movements, some in the pro-abortion Left are now tying the shooter's actions to "hateful rhetoric" and "smear campaigns" against Planned Parenthood that allegedly creates an "environment" that "breeds acts of violence." This is sheer nonsense. If angry political rhetoric bred violence, America would look something like Syria - awash in genocidal conflict. For sheer viciousness the robust debates between politicians and activists often pale in comparison to the "flame wars" on Twitter and Facebook, where arguments quickly become deeply personal. America's political culture is thoughtful in parts, but it's also a shouting culture, and anyone who's looking for angry or extremist rhetoric can find it. It's everywhere.

-- David French

Quote of the Day II

But this has me imagining a scene: Hillary: No living man can defeat me! Carly: [Laughs] But no living man am I!

-- Glenn Reynolds

Quote of the Day III

I knew a comedian who had a spreadsheet on which he had every line from his act intended to get any sort of reaction from an audience listed in the left hand column. He'd tape record every show, then spend part of the next day listening to the entire act, pausing the recording after every reaction and scoring that reaction on the spreadsheet on a scale from one to ten. If a line fell below a certain percentage, it was cut from the act.

Ric and I both agreed that it was an insane plan, which would rob our friend's act of its soul. I should point out that our friend is still a comedian. Ric and I are not.

Quote of the Day IV

The best ideas always come from unsafe spaces.

-- Tim Blair

This Seems Important: Cameroon Army Kills 100 From Boko Haram, Frees 900 Hostages

Gavin McInnes On Gotye's "Somebody That I Used To Know" Along With Tough Talk For Millennial Dudes

The Clinton Way of Dealing With Refugees

Hillary Clinton has joined Barack Obama in accusing Republican of betraying American values for raising legitimate security concerns about admitted Syrian refugees, declaring last week that "slamming the door on refugees isn't who we are."
Funny, because when her husband was president, he "slammed the door" on refugees - the cell door at Guantanamo Bay.

In the early 1990s, tens of thousands of refugees fled Haiti and sought refuge in the United States following the military coup that overthrew President Jean Bertrand Aristide. They did not include Islamist terrorists, but many posed another perceived threat: They had HIV. Instead of admitting them into the United States, President Bill Clinton ordered the Haitian refugees be held at Guantanamo, and then repatriated back to Haiti.

During the 1992 election Clinton criticized President George H.W. Bush's practice of repatriating Haitian refugees as "cruel" and "immoral," and promised to end the practice. But after winning the presidency, Clinton reversed course, and tried to stop the Haitian exodus by declaring that the refugees would be intercepted and sent back to Haiti. It didn't work, and eventually he decided to house tens of thousands of Haitian refugees in Guantanamo. A federal judge declared Clinton's policy of detaining refugees at Gitmo "outrageous, callous and reprehensible" and criticized him for inflicting on the Haitians "the kind of indefinite detention usually reserved for spies and murderers." After an American-led force restored President Aristide to power in 1994, the Clinton administration told the remaining refugees they had to return home, declaring: "Under no circumstances will any Haitian currently in Guantanamo be admitted to the United States."
Did Bill Clinton "betray our values" in refusing to admit these refugees?

What's infuriating is that people have forgotten or chosen to forget how we dealt with various refugee groups up until just a few years ago before we apparently went Open Borders For All.

Which Colleges Are Actually Diverse?

But, happily, a few excellent schools, though still dominated by progressive academics, employ at least some right-of-center professors across a range of departments in the social sciences and humanities.

Where are these special places? They tend to be located in the South or in Catholic colleges. Among top public universities, the University of Virginia, Texas A&M, and the University of Texas are unusually diverse. Emory University is among the most diverse elite private institutions.

West Virginia Is The State Obama Hates The Most

If Obama had the power to simply have a state and its people disappeared, I'm pretty sure that WV would be number one or two on it.

The devastation goes well beyond coal mining. The War on Coal affects the aluminum industry, which requires cheap electricity. The state now leads the nation in unemployment, and has the nation's lowest labor participation rate in the nation. Under Obama, West Virginia has more adults 16 and over not working than it has working. It is the only state in the nation where non-working adults outnumber the workers.
Obama hates West Virginia. Just why, I do not know. Perhaps it is racial. He attended that church of hate run by Jeremiah Wright, his mentor to whom he dedicated his second autobiography, "The Audacity Of Hope."
By the way, 51 billion tons of coal gives the state a supply of 340 years to 510 years of coal, based on mining 100 million to 150 million tons a year. The "post coal economy" is something for people in the 24th century to figure out.

Meanwhile a financially struggling WV college drives out the few remaining conservatives and turns up its nose at non-Leftist donations.

Revealed: The 1972 Munich Terrorists Actually Castrated One of the Israeli Athletes

Did the JFK Assassination Kill America?

Or at least the love of America by the Left. Well since they couldn't admit that a Communist loser had killed JFK, somebody had to be at fault. And that somebody was America as a whole.

The Bottom Line: There Were No Publicly Celebrating Muslims in New Jersey on 9/11

Private 'Dollar Vans' vs. NYC Public Transit

The most successful vans service transit-rich corridors, like Brooklyn's Flatbush and Utica Avenues, both of which are well served by the bus-indicating that residents still want more options. While the vans attract passengers like Green, who would normally ride the bus, they operate more like hybrid bus-taxis. They make more precise stops, for one thing. They operate more frequently, guarantee riders a seat, cost less than the bus, and get passengers where they need to go more quickly. (They can improvise routes in response to heavy traffic or accidents, thus reducing delays.) "The vans are actually faster than the bus. That's really the reason why I take them," said Dionelli Bowen, as he waited for a van at Utica and Eastern Parkway. "It's faster and cheaper than the bus," Green agrees. And because there are no strict operating rules or schedules to adhere to, drivers have the latitude to accommodate passengers' specific needs, such as waiting 30 seconds while a mother drops off her child at day care or deviating off the main route to drop elderly passengers in front of their apartment buildings.

So of course they must be regulated/strangled:

"Every time someone doesn't swipe onto the bus and takes a van instead, that bus route is at risk of losing service, and that's bad for our neighborhoods," says New York City Council member I. Daneek Miller. A former bus driver and labor leader, Miller has pushed the Taxi and Limousine Commission to hold the vans accountable to existing regulations. The TLC regulates nearly 100,000 vehicles with an enforcement team of only 186 agents.

The Soviet Union's Secret Space Cannon

Only known to have been fired once in space it required counter-thrust to keep its recoil from moving the space station.

Great Moments in Commie Planning: When China Wiped Out the Common Sparrow And Nearly Starved Itself

In 1958, China wanted its sparrow population dead. As part of dear leader Mao Zedong's Four Pests campaign for improved public health, the Chinese would exterminate all mosquitoes, flies, rats and the tweeting sparrows so beloved of London's Cockneys.

Mao had made his selection. Panda bears, worms and even the dreaded moth would be allowed to thrive. His murderous hatred of sparrows held sway. The people would be mobilised for the huge cull on an enemy of the common good.

And the Chinese did nearly wipe out all the sparrows. Except that - oops - it turned out that the sparrows also ate most of the insects that ate crops....

George Lucas: Still A Douche, Still Trying to Retcon His Own Work

Lucas says Han shooting first in the Mos Eisley cantina - which is what happened in the original edit of 1977's debut Star Wars film - ran against the character's principles. "Han Solo was going to marry Leia, and you look back and say, 'Should he be a cold-blooded killer?'" Lucas asks. "Because I was thinking mythologically - should he be a cowboy, should he be John Wayne? And I said, 'Yeah, he should be John Wayne.' And when you're John Wayne, you don't shoot people [first] - you let them have the first shot. It's a mythological reality that we hope our society pays attention to."

...Fans have long maintained that Lucas was just flat-out wrong on this one. The shooting established Ford's character as somebody not to be messed with, and in the scene it's pretty clear that Greedo is going to kill Han regardless ("Over my dead body" / "That's the idea"). So Han waiting for Greedo to take a shot at him while at point blank range doesn't make any sense.

What was Found (and still edible) inside a 150 year-old Mississippi Sunken Steamboat

Amazingly much of the clothing was well preserved. And points out how stylish the well-dressed Kansan of the 1850s could be.

The Bears: Promiscuous, Horny, And Willing to Kill For Sex

But not typically human rapists...unless provoked.

The Group knows your sins but doesn't care.

Tonight's post brought to you by what can't global warming do:

Notice: Posted by implicit permission of AceCorp LLC. No ONT parking in the back lot until further notice. Last call for AoSHQ Premium secret santa.

Posted by: Maetenloch at 10:54 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Holy crap First not.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 10:56 PM (wHX4r)

2 MSM Narrative;

Colorado Springs; "Christian extremist rhetoric killed those people"

San Bernardino: "Let's not impugn anyone's faith"

Posted by: kbdabear at December 02, 2015 10:56 PM (GrXXa)

3 Woot woot ONT

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 10:57 PM (s0Kry)

4 And yes I did not read the content.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 10:57 PM (wHX4r)

5 Howdy, y'all!

Posted by: cthulhu at December 02, 2015 10:58 PM (EzgxV)

6 Set Phasers to 'Disrupt'.

Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 10:58 PM (6dAqB)

7 The War On Boys: Lego Edition

#GenderJustice has come to a Washington state kindergarten. Because the boys tended to play with Legos while girls didn't, a so-called teacher has decided that this is oppressive and responded by... not only banning boys from playing with Legos, but lying to them about it!

More: http://politicalhat.com/?p=10480

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 02, 2015 10:59 PM (vBeA5)

8 Weasel Zippers has a pic of the two on the ground(dead).

they pulled up their shirts to check for an explosive belt.

one is clearly a chick because you can see her black bra-strap

Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2015 10:59 PM (QelBn)

9 Can we have that backlash now ... or do we still have to shut our mouths and take what we've got coming ?

Posted by: Irony at December 02, 2015 11:00 PM (qmMG2)

10 But two thirds of those fucking West Virginia hillbillies will still vote Dem til the day they die. I know because I'm related to all of 'em.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:00 PM (RuxkS)

11 Fuck diversity. How about a little social cohesion instead?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 02, 2015 11:02 PM (RU5ki)

12 one is clearly a chick because you can see her black bra-strap>>>

Clearly this comment comes from a 1%ter with a huge screen. Because I did not see a bra strap.

/sarc

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:03 PM (wHX4r)

13 Yes, there were publicly celebrating muslims in New Jersey on 9/11

Link in sig

Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:03 PM (Kqit+)

14 Content is for closers.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:03 PM (+1T7c)

15 How about a little social cohesion instead?
Posted by: Cicero

I'm ready for some of that. So long as no burkas are involved. Or togas.

Posted by: dogfish at December 02, 2015 11:04 PM (0O2Lr)

16 Hannity has more info pointing toward terrorism.

Devout Muslims, for one thing. Some neighbor said something about other people around the house recently, lots of deliveries.

Possible they had some bigger plans in mind ...

Posted by: Illiniwek at December 02, 2015 11:04 PM (wtkzU)

17 There are some serious pockets of humanity in West Virginia.

Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 11:04 PM (6dAqB)

18 9 Can we have that backlash now ... or do we still have to shut our mouths and take what we've got coming ?

-----------

I'm up for a little backlash. There will be a lot of back payments included.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 02, 2015 11:04 PM (RU5ki)

19 Obama will get what he wants.

Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 02, 2015 11:04 PM (cf06R)

20 The weird thing about that bra strap is that it looked to be the exact same color as whatever was on her back.

It looked deep red or maroon to me, not black, but my laptop is old.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:04 PM (RuxkS)

21
Tammy,
That makes us distant cousins.

My grandmother grew up in Hurricane.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 02, 2015 11:05 PM (Ux5Di)

22 Comedy Central probably should have rethought tonight's Daily Show with Obama's Mini-me...

The first segment mocked the preoccupation with ISIS and terrorism in lieu of the genuine threat of...global warming.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 02, 2015 11:05 PM (zHKuc)

23 People are more docile and easily led in warm weather than in cold-Professor Dumb F@ck

I see academia hasn't changed much.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:05 PM (2zd9l)

24 There are some serious pockets of humanity in West Virginia.
Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 11:04 PM (6dAqB)

You have no idea.

I love my people, and it's the most beautiful state in the country union, but lawsy.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:06 PM (RuxkS)

25
Remembering Night Flight TV (1981-198

flashbak.com/remembering-night-flight-tv-1981-1988-47416/

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 02, 2015 11:06 PM (kdS6q)

26 >> one is clearly a chick because you can see her black bra-strap

She went out a slave to the Patriarchy.

Posted by: Feministo at December 02, 2015 11:06 PM (6dAqB)

27 But two thirds of those fucking West Virginia hillbillies will still
vote Dem til the day they die. I know because I'm related to all of 'em.>>>

I lived there a couple years when I was little do you know me?

I have fun stories from my older brothers from that time around 1967.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:06 PM (wHX4r)

28
G'Night, Ev'ry-Buddy...

*dial-tone*

Posted by: Slapweasel (Cold1) (T) at December 02, 2015 11:07 PM (OQ9R7)

29 10: Tammy, that's the truth. They keep right on voting for their own destruction.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 02, 2015 11:07 PM (ucDmr)

30 No thread is complete without a little bear sex.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:07 PM (gyKtp)

31 Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 02, 2015 11:05 PM (Ux5Di)

Hurricane, huh? Big city folks.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:08 PM (RuxkS)

32
And of course:

Night Flight - Love That 'Bob'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03d4VA-V0Cc

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 02, 2015 11:08 PM (kdS6q)

33 11
Fuck diversity. How about a little social cohesion instead?

What country have you been in ?

These shooters only killed fourteen. It's not like they cut women's throats and took over planes and crashed them into full buildings.

Because that shit ... well, hell, that shit didn't change much either.

Posted by: Irony at December 02, 2015 11:09 PM (qmMG2)

34 "Absent any ties to terrorist organizations or even any peaceful political movements, some in the pro-abortion Left are now tying the shooter's actions to 'hateful rhetoric' and 'smear campaigns' against Planned Parenthood
that allegedly creates an 'environment' that 'breeds acts of violence.'"

I guess what's being referred to here are the "already discredited videos" of PP.

Actual conversation:

"Can you believe the right pushing these heavily edited videos trying to call Planned Parenthood into question for allegedly selling fetal body parts?"

Um, have you actually viewed those videos?

"Of course not. Why would I? They've been heavily edited."

Oh. Okay, then. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 02, 2015 11:09 PM (noWW6)

35 I have never lived there, Willy, but I have visited there my entire life!

Whereabouts did you live?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:10 PM (RuxkS)

36 I was reading an article by Willy Ley, who was talking about alternative energy in the 50's.
According to him, a lot of the panic over the exhaustion of fossil fuels like coal goes back to the 1913 International Geological Congress where they figured that at the mining and usage levels (at then present mining technologies) limited the lifetime for dependence on that fuel at the then usage rates. England had a reserve of some 200 years, the US for 2000.
Of course, since then extraction and use technology has improved, but we still have people throwing conniptions over exhaustion of vital resources. When they aren't having conniptions over CO2

(Willy Ley was a science writer who was both a contributor to Amazing/Astounding, but also one of the founding members of the VfR)

Posted by: Kindltot at December 02, 2015 11:10 PM (q2o38)

37 Clearly this comment comes from a 1%ter with a huge screen. Because I did not see a bra strap.

/sarc
Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:03 PM (wHX4r)

It's the wide part of the bra across her back. Dead and exposed to the prying eyes of infidel scum is a good look for her.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:10 PM (kXoT0)

38
I was flying back to Denver on a business trip and ended up sitting next to some gal who was coming back from West, By God, Virginia from a work trip. She told me she was in some town with a funny sounding name and I replied, "Hurricane?" and her jaw dropped. "How do you know about it?""Because my family lives there."

Went to Marshall for a year. It didn't take.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 02, 2015 11:10 PM (Ux5Di)

39 Yes they do, Chavez, it's unreal.

You know,l I keep meaning to ask you, do you prefer Hugo?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:10 PM (RuxkS)

40 Gotta say the school lunches in West Virginia were better than any I had after. Even if the lunch ladies made me eat my green beans.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:11 PM (wHX4r)

41 @ 33

Hell we appease them and bend over for them now

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:11 PM (gmP76)

42 Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 02, 2015 11:10 PM (Ux5D)

Marshall University?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:12 PM (RuxkS)

43 39: Tammy it's all good. Otherwise, El Conquistador works too.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 02, 2015 11:12 PM (ucDmr)

44 10 years ago were the Cronulla Beach riots in Australia where the local surfers got sick of the moslems harassing their chicks at the beach.

Then the leftists showed up.

anyone have a good link on the details because the lefties are making the local surfers out as the bad guys.

my Bing-fu is weak aparently

Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2015 11:12 PM (QelBn)

45 Hannity just repeated what a neighbor supposedly said- there were 3-4 men in that home.

Posted by: Baldy at December 02, 2015 11:12 PM (1SCTq)

46 Among top public universities, the University of Virginia, Texas A&M, and the University of Texas are unusually diverse.
Asians don't count.

Well, Asians do count but that's not the way I meant it.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 02, 2015 11:13 PM (xodPA)

47 BTW, I only saw the beginning of the Daily Show because South Park ran long.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 02, 2015 11:13 PM (zHKuc)

48 The killer worked as health tech inspecting restaurants and hotels ... thankfully he didn't get a chance to leave poisons behind ... or hopefully.

Posted by: Illiniwek at December 02, 2015 11:13 PM (wtkzU)

49 Whereabouts did you live?>>>

Wheeling.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:13 PM (wHX4r)

50 McInnes is clever but he completely misunderstand Gotye's song Somebody That I Used To Know. Or rather, he understands the lesson but doesn't credit the author. The voice in that song/story is lamenting the loss caused by his douchebaggery/failure to commit to a woman he loved, not simply puzzling over the fact that she wouldn't continue in a hedonistic relationship as McInnes interprets it. Even my kids understood the message of that song.

Gotye/Gauthier, btw, is not your stereotypical leftist. He was a member of a great Australian band, The Basics, and recently reunited to do an album titled "The Age of Entitlement" which laments the replacement of the middle-class work ethic with an expectation of welfare for people and corporations. He's fit in here, I suspect.

Here's a song. https://youtu.be/OZiUd5j7JQk?list=PLUSRfoOcUe4bajcvGTwYDeCkrZyaIipvR

Posted by: BenSpinoza at December 02, 2015 11:14 PM (y4eBv)

51 I was debating buying an AR-15 rifle barrel in 300 AAC.
When I saw the shooting I jumped on it plus a stripped upper.
Get it while it's cheap as prices are probably about to go up.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 02, 2015 11:14 PM (hVdx9)

52 The link in my sig is to video, but there's also this:

"This appeared in the Washington Post on September 18, 2001:

In Jersey City, within hours of two jetliners' plowing into the World Trade Center, law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river."

It just goes back to the whole gaslighting thing. It happened. They reported it. And now they're all acting like we're crazy to remember their report.

Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:14 PM (Kqit+)

53 Content rich.

Posted by: rickl at December 02, 2015 11:14 PM (sdi6R)

54 #44

http://australian-news.net/articles/view.php?id=118

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:15 PM (kXoT0)

55 The idea the Muslim killbots spooged early before they were ready for their big show might just be what happened.

The knots the MFM will twist itself into will be epic.

Posted by: eman at December 02, 2015 11:15 PM (MQEz6)

56 "Gotta say the school lunches in West Virginia were better than any I had after."

Can't beat the possum stew.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 02, 2015 11:15 PM (noWW6)

57 Oh well, Wheeling. You and Alex with your high-falutin' city ways.

My people are hard-core.

Mingo County, baby.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:15 PM (RuxkS)

58 West Virginia is full of tribal, clannish family folk, kinda Scotch-Irish types. Their friends and neighbors and older folk who worked in the mines were all UMW (United Mine Workers), and always pitted against the BIG MINE OWNERS (money), so yeah. UMW was always a big Democrat supporter. They learned all that for decades at their mother's knee.

Now, fewer mines, fewer jobs. Maybe a watershed moment that overcomes decades of habit? Why, they even used to have a Rockefeller as a Senator. Jay Rockefeller, Democrat.

Naw, I don't think they'll change. Voting along tribal, family loyalty, or for their actual self-interest?

And yes, West Virginia is a very pretty place, and most of the folks there are very nice people, when you actually know them and don't stereotype them as dumb hillbillies.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:16 PM (+1T7c)

59 In case of imminent sudden death by a female jihadi, it might be handy to have a practiced 'famous last words' to deliver. Here's a few samples --

3. Here Lies Les Moore

2. Remember the Alamo

1. Quick. Show me your titties.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:16 PM (gyKtp)

60 31 Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 02, 2015 11:05 PM (Ux5Di)

Hurricane, huh? Big city folks.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:08 PM (RuxkS)
***
Born and raised outside of Ravenswood, myself.

West Virginia - a great place to be from.
West Virginia - 'Almost Heaven....almost, but not quite'
West Virginia - 'No, really, we were on the winning side in the Civil War.'
West Virginia - 'How the other half live.'

It's a beautiful place, with good people, and it will break your heart every single time.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:16 PM (lutOX)

61 Can't beat the possum stew.>>>

Home cooked by real moms. Hellyeah.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:17 PM (wHX4r)

62 I suspect the official prog line will become, what did they gain by the attack in San Bern, it makes them and their cause look really bad ,therefor they must have been crazy, no point in talking about their motives or what inspired them or anything.

Besides, NRA!

Posted by: Mallflower at December 02, 2015 11:17 PM (qSIlh)

63 No thread is complete without a little bear sex.
Posted by: GnuBreed

They looked like big bears.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 02, 2015 11:18 PM (FkBIv)

64 Or at least the love of America by the Left. Well since they couldn't admit that a Communist loser had killed JFK, somebody had to be at fault. And that somebody was America as a whole.

For the record, JFK was no hero of the progressive left. JFK was very pro-business and, more importantly, very anti-communist. Also, very much part of "the Establishment" the progs hate.

The worship of JFK by the left came later.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 02, 2015 11:18 PM (Zmat4)

65 Next!

Um... I mean, howdy y'all.

That said, now to see what Maet's come up with tonight. I bet it will be as always.

Posted by: mindful webworker - sequentially at December 02, 2015 11:18 PM (REkPr)

66 52
It just goes back to the whole gaslighting thing. It happened. They reported it. And now they're all acting like we're crazy to remember their report.

Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:14 PM (Kqit+)

*rolls eyes*

*shakes head*

Posted by: George Orwell at December 02, 2015 11:18 PM (sdi6R)

67 57 Oh well, Wheeling. You and Alex with your high-falutin' city ways.

My people are hard-core.

Mingo County, baby.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:15 PM (RuxkS)
***
My great grandmother, she never said that County without calling it "Bloody Mingo." Growing up, I thought that was it's real name.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:18 PM (lutOX)

68 and the guys in San Bern were almost certainly at a party or two where they drank tea.

connect the dots, haters

Posted by: Mallflower at December 02, 2015 11:19 PM (qSIlh)

69 When FDR interred the Japanese descendants in the Western U.S. during WWII, there hadn't been a single known attack or attempt on the U.S. mainland from an ethnic Japanese.

Contrast that with the ongoing roll-call of deadly attacks already effected by muzzies in the U.S.

I don't have answers to that dilemma, but I've sure got questions that the MSM dare not ask.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at December 02, 2015 11:19 PM (McRlu)

70 Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:16 PM (+1T7c)

They can be very nice and they aren't dumb, but they are definitely hillbillies. They have stuck with the Scots-Irish clan mentality for sure.

I think they're like Arkansas and vote Dem straight up to President. Local and semi local politics are definitely Dem, even among the very religious.

And yes, Union is KING.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:19 PM (RuxkS)

71 Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:18 PM (lutOX)

Yessir. And for a variety of reasons.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:20 PM (RuxkS)

72 West Virginia is a beautiful state. I don't know enough about the people there to comment on them. Never had an issue there.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 02, 2015 11:20 PM (ucDmr)

73 "Now, fewer mines, fewer jobs. Maybe a watershed moment that overcomes decades of habit?"

This is what generously disbursed, publicly funded OxyContin prescriptions are for.

Posted by: The Democratic Party, Working For You! at December 02, 2015 11:20 PM (noWW6)

74 25
Remembering Night Flight TV (1981-198

flashbak.com/remembering-night-flight-tv-1981-1988-47416/
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 02, 2015 11:06 PM (kdS6q)

Loved that show, I can still remember staying up late Friday and Saturday nights and around 2 am crawling out of bed and sitting down right in front of the tv with the volume real low so it wouldnt wake anybody up and watch Night Flight for as long as I could stay awake, good times.

Posted by: All Teh Meh at December 02, 2015 11:20 PM (iiDhh)

75 Evenin' everyone.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at December 02, 2015 11:21 PM (YJmuy)

76 Mingo County, baby.>>>

Not in Wheeling just that was the closest city if it can be called a city.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:21 PM (wHX4r)

77 Kos put a whole shoe warehouse in his mouth today

https://twitter.com/markos/status/672143414750658560

Markos Moulitsas
@markos

Yo GOP, kinda hard to talk about "keeping people safe" when your peeps are shooting up America.

3:00 PM - 2 Dec 2015

Posted by: kbdabear at December 02, 2015 11:21 PM (GrXXa)

78

creepiest article you'll read about JEF this week

You Should Really Read Michael Doran on Obama and Russia

gives you chills

http://freebeacon.com/blog/you-should-really-read-michael-doran-on-obama-and-russia/

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM (qCMvj)

79 CNN and MSNBC are going full gun control right now before the last night presser.

Posted by: Walter Freeman at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM (Jkzzm)

80 71 Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:18 PM (lutOX)

Yessir. And for a variety of reasons.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:20 PM (RuxkS)
***
I learned the Gospel of the Union Wars at her knee - she was in McDowell County, but heard all about it.... mind-blowing, what happened in Mingo, and to this day, almost nobody outside the area knows what happened there, and how bad it was.

I think back on the fact my ancestors left Poland to move to that place, and shudder to think how bad the Old Country must have been.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM (lutOX)

81 re W Virginia: I have trouble having respect for people who put cole slaw on a hot dog. Chili sauce and onions, ok, but cole slaw, no.

Posted by: Mallflower at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM (qSIlh)

82 [iFuck diversity. How about a little social cohesion instead?

As Vox Day is wont to say: Diversity + Proximity = War

Posted by: ChicagoRefugee at December 02, 2015 11:23 PM (b/PFG)

83 This is what generously disbursed, publicly funded OxyContin prescriptions are for.

Posted by: The Democratic Party, Working For You
****

That is awfully high fallutin'. I thought a little toluene on a rag was the way to go for po folk?

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 02, 2015 11:23 PM (hVdx9)

84 CNN and MSNBC are going full gun control right now before the last night presser.
Posted by: Walter Freeman at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM (Jkzzm)

I don't suppose they were blaming the "gun" environment in France for their attack..

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at December 02, 2015 11:23 PM (qCMvj)

85 For the record, JFK was no hero of the progressive
left. JFK was very pro-business and, more importantly, very
anti-communist. Also, very much part of "the Establishment" the progs
hate.

The worship of JFK by the left came later.

Posted by: Oregon Muse

JFK's platform in 1960 was "socialist" according to Barry Goldwater, who said so in a letter to Kennedy.

Kennedy was big on price controls for the steel industry, specifically US Steel.
He was also big on the atmospheric test ban treaty, which was one of the planks of the nuclear disarmament crowd. I can't say that as a kid we were all enthusiastic for atmospheric nuclear tests (the snow is radioactive!!), but he was pointing in another direction.

The Left is never satisfied with any politician they think they can ratchet further Left by pressure and agitation.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (+1T7c)

86 Damn you, tablet, for my incomplete tags!

Posted by: ChicagoRefugee at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (b/PFG)

87 69 >> When FDR interred the Japanese descendants in the Western U.S. during
WWII, there hadn't been a single known attack or attempt on the U.S.
mainland from an ethnic Japanese.

Posted by: Jim

But the emperor Hirohito was exhorting the Japanese living in the US to commit acts of sabotage and spying. And since he was considered a living god, there was good reason to believe that some here would follow through on his orders.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (gyKtp)

88 Wednesday Night ONT Compliance Pics

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672102047412445184

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672102380524056576

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672102745671766016

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672103023984816128

Posted by: kbdabear at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (GrXXa)

89
If Obama had the power to simply have a state and its people
disappeared, I'm pretty sure that WV would be number one or two on it. The devastation goes well beyond coal mining.

In places the despair is tangible. I see it everyday.

And yet, and yet....

The sense of community that we have here is something that fucking organizer could only dream of.

We'll endure an overcome.

MONTANI SEMPER LIBERI

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (AgTww)

90 Well, I was half right. It was a county employee, but he did not act alone. He worked with the people he killed.

People said he looked upset and that is why they were suspicious. Maybe somewhere deep in his dark, twisted, hate-filled excuse for a soul, there was a little spark of conscience saying, "please do not kill all those people." But he ignored it and went out to find his buddies and came back kill people he worked with.

Posted by: rd at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (Ltj2h)

91 A thought just crossed my feeble brain. Farook must have seen this as a golden opportunity. Christmas party, lots of attendance, unarmed, all infidels. He knew weeks in advance that the shindig was going down. And everyone unarmed. Perfect time to strike.

Posted by: Old Blue at December 02, 2015 11:25 PM (9iR5/)

92 Steamboat Arabia is a real treasure. Anyone who goes to KC and enjoys history should not miss. There is nothing like it.

Posted by: Cornfed at December 02, 2015 11:25 PM (sMJaF)

93 MONTANI SEMPER LIBERI

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (AgTww)
***
Pour that man one from the good bottle!

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:25 PM (lutOX)

94 @77. Shoe? More like his Dick

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:25 PM (DmRs2)

95 I had not heard about China's war on sparrows -- but in a way I had, because Frank Herbert's The Green Brain, set in a world that is wiping out insects, with some bad effects (basically the insects fighting back in an interesting way), has a Chinese character who is concealing the effects of his own country's war on insects. Didn't know that was based on real events. Great book.

Posted by: Splunge at December 02, 2015 11:25 PM (iMxBJ)

96 Diversity?

.22lr, .380, .40, .45 acp, 7.62x25, .223/5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, .308, 30.06, 8mm, 12ga

THAT is diversity thank you.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 02, 2015 11:26 PM (hVdx9)

97 Trump has been vindicated. He said he saw reports of celebrations. Such reports did exist at the time on multiple outlets as we have seen. The fact some now don't believe those reports were accurate in retrospect is irrelevant to Trump's claims.The reports were made and he believed them. So did millions of others. The NYT article mentioned cites some guy who "checked it out" and with virtually no investigation declared them to be false. Bullshit.

Posted by: Dan Stevens at December 02, 2015 11:26 PM (Bcqod)

98 Wednesday Night ONT Compliance Pics - 2

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672103270647656448

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672103547333251072

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672103844814258176

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/672104097416282112

Posted by: kbdabear at December 02, 2015 11:26 PM (GrXXa)

99 Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM (lutOX)

See, that's the one thing that allows me to cut them some slack for the devotion to Union. They went through hell, and they remember shit like that for generations.

I mean, the gawt damned government bombed them, for fuck's sake. They ain't gonna forget that and it will lose nothing in the retelling.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:26 PM (RuxkS)

100 Hey everybody.

Twitter is giving me hope tonight. Leftist/atheist bigots getting bitchslapped hard everywhere you look.

Plus, @anamariecox actually defended prayer. OMG.

Posted by: qdpsteve at December 02, 2015 11:27 PM (ntObR)

101 Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (AgTww)

Just to be clear here, these are my people and I love them dearly.

Oh and howdy, cousin!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:28 PM (RuxkS)

102 A thought just crossed my feeble brain. Farook must have seen this as a golden opportunity. Christmas party, lots of attendance, unarmed, all infidels. He knew weeks in advance that the shindig was going down. And everyone unarmed. Perfect time to strike.

Posted by: Old Blue
****

You mean everyone doesn't have explosive devices at home just waiting for the right opportunity?
What is this world coming to?

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 02, 2015 11:28 PM (hVdx9)

103 Did not live in West Virgins many years and I was young. Bu I gather it will be the Afghanistan of our future Muslim Overlords.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:28 PM (wHX4r)

104 Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 02, 2015 11:26 PM (hVdx9)

LOL!!!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:29 PM (RuxkS)

105 qdpsteve, I can't believe I got a Twitter account 3 weeks ago.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:29 PM (+oRxW)

106 Second subject named by SBCSO as a Qatari.

Posted by: Fox2! at December 02, 2015 11:29 PM (brIR5)

107 99 Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM (lutOX)

See, that's the one thing that allows me to cut them some slack for the devotion to Union. They went through hell, and they remember shit like that for generations.

I mean, the gawt damned government bombed them, for fuck's sake. They ain't gonna forget that and it will lose nothing in the retelling.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:26 PM (RuxkS)
***
Yep. Even conservative as I am, even near absolutist on the free market as I am, I have deep sympathies for unionism in certain industries.

And, yeah, the miners got f*cked, as they always have, as they always will, sadly.

When I went back to my great grandmother's town (named for the coal company who set it up) I saw only decaying houses, dogs in the streets, and just despaired. This was a thriving town, people built lives and tried to live out their dreams, in one form or another. Now, nothing.

Trees were beginning to grow up in buildings on what had been the main street.......

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:30 PM (lutOX)

108 Another name from Jonathan Hunt: Tayip Ardogan, citizen of Qatar.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 02, 2015 11:30 PM (dvuhZ)

109 fun fact

I was born in some fuck whit town in Ohio*, 15 miles from WV.

Fortunately I left Ohio and now got to reside in Idaho, way before it got full up, tell all your friends.

*no offense to any Ohioians, but Idaho suits me way better

Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2015 11:31 PM (QelBn)

110 103 Did not live in West Virgins many years and I was young. Bu I gather it will be the Afghanistan of our future Muslim Overlords.
Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:28 PM (wHX4r)
***
Something like that.....I suspect they'll have no end of trouble with the natives there - every government before them always has.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:32 PM (lutOX)

111 Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:28 PM (wHX4r)

If they can stay sober long enough, yes.

One of my cousins came back from Afghanistan and said the people there were eerily close in character to our peeps.

Same clannishness, same fierceness, same fighting attitude, but that the women were calmer.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:32 PM (RuxkS)

112 It just goes back to the whole gaslighting thing. It happened. They reported it. And now they're all acting like we're crazy to remember their report.
Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:14 PM (Kqit+)

Lauren, there were all kinds of crazy reports flying around in the days after 9/11. If this incident actually happened, then where is the video? Where is the police report?

I'm 99.9999999999999% convinced that Trump is confusing video of Palestinians celebrating and with the various rumors of celebrations happening in NJ. Which is certainly understandable 15 years after the fact. What I don't get is why Trump can't just acknowledge that he might have confused the two. It's not a big deal but doubling down on a hand when you're in the wrong is simply dumb.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 02, 2015 11:32 PM (wqVD1)

113 Jake, completely understandable

That's why I have a seasonal off the grid

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:33 PM (pahrJ)

114 Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2015 11:31 PM (QelBn)

That part of WV is more civilized, Jake!

They ain't even considered hillbilly.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:33 PM (RuxkS)

115 Take me Home Country Roads.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:33 PM (wHX4r)

116 watching al jazeera, since fox biz news is having another Jamie Colby festival. Yow. Apparently CAIR will be holding a press conference.

"they were assault style weapons." S Bern police chief, I think. Could be live coverage

Posted by: Mallflower at December 02, 2015 11:34 PM (qSIlh)

117 #54

thank you

Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2015 11:34 PM (QelBn)

118 LA Times reporter says that the woman terrorist has been ID'd

Qatari citizen, name sounds like Ardowan

Posted by: kbdabear at December 02, 2015 11:34 PM (GrXXa)

119 "JFK's platform in 1960 was 'socialist' according to Barry Goldwater, who said so in a letter to Kennedy. Kennedy was big on price controls for the steel industry, specifically US Steel. He was also big on the atmospheric test ban treaty, which was one of the planks of the nuclear disarmament crowd."

Was the test ban treaty an actual part of the 1960 campaign and platform?

I had thought that it came up later on, after Kennedy had been elected.

He certainly ran as a heavy-duty Cold War hawk, what with accusing the Republicans of allowing the purported "missile gap". And pledging to fully fund the B-70 bomber, to keep the his backers in the aerospace factory unions happy, something on which he promptly reneged upon taking office.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 02, 2015 11:35 PM (noWW6)

120 They will start to do this on a regular schedule.

Every two weeks or so.

Killing a few dozen folks.

Scattered everywhere in the Country.

Posted by: eman at December 02, 2015 11:35 PM (MQEz6)

121 I don't doubt that rumors were flying, but in the days after September 11th, who the hell could they spare to go check it out? And on what grounds? It's not illegal to be an asshole.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:35 PM (RuxkS)

122 Among top public universities, the University of Virginia, Texas A&M, and the University of Texas are unusually diverse.
Asians don't count.

Well, Asians do count but that's not the way I meant it.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 02, 2015 11:13 PM (xodPA)

What I see,

For all purposes of diversity, Asians are white. The Democrat KKK may have hated them as much as Blacks, but too many will not bow down and live on the Dem Plantation. They are intelligent and many succeeed, therefore they must be white (and hated like them too).

Posted by: rd at December 02, 2015 11:35 PM (Ltj2h)

123 Same clannishness, same fierceness, same fighting attitude, but that the women were calmer. >>>

They don't let them into the feuds and shoot like they do in WV maybe.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:36 PM (wHX4r)

124 They all sound like Turks to me. That's not an Arabic sounding name.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:36 PM (RuxkS)

125 80 I learned the Gospel of the Union Wars at her knee - she was in McDowell County, but heard all about it.... mind-blowing, what happened in Mingo, and to this day, almost nobody outside the area knows what happened there, and how bad it was.
Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:22 PM

My great grandpa was a WV coal miner. Died of black lung. My dad repeated a little of what he had to say about pinkerton thugs & how it was awful about the murder of those "poor Mexicans" even if they were brought in to break the strike

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 02, 2015 11:36 PM (Vm8WO)

126 #117 you are welcome.

What's sad is women and girls are being raped all across Europe by muslim gangs and so far their menfolks have not stepped up to stop it. Good on the Aussie Surfers!

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:36 PM (kXoT0)

127 When I went back to my great grandmother's town (named for the coal company who set it up) I saw only decaying houses, dogs in the streets, and just despaired. This was a thriving town, people built lives and tried to live out their dreams, in one form or another. Now, nothing.

Trees were beginning to grow up in buildings on what had been the main street.......

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:30 PM (lutOX)

This sounds almost as bad as Detroit.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 02, 2015 11:37 PM (Zmat4)

128 kbdabear, I take it jihad Jane died without her a hefty bag on. So in heaven she gets 72 viriginal camels to rape her sorry twat?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:37 PM (Oy0zJ)

129 Like the comedian above, Harold Lloyd also used a chart to determine which parts of his movies got laughs and how big the laughs were. He'd trim or reshoot scenes that didn't get the laughs he wanted. This helped Lloyd at the box office, becoming the comedian who made the most money during the silent movie period.

And I think it also left him the most forgotten.

Chaplin and Keaton didn't make as much money, but their films have lasted far beyond their time. I like and appreciate Lloyd films very much, but I love Chaplin and Keaton. I think Lloyd's methodology paid too much attention to the short game, and not enough to the long game.

An artist has to be ruthless in what he leaves in and what he leaves out, but an artist that is shortsighted and plays to the moment is more likely to find his art shortlived.

Posted by: Puzzled Dolphin at December 02, 2015 11:37 PM (Z/irl)

130
When FDR interred the Japanese descendants in the Western U.S. during
WWII, there hadn't been a single known attack or attempt on the U.S.
mainland from an ethnic Japanese.

Posted by: Jim

But the emperor Hirohito was exhorting the Japanese living in the US to commit acts of sabotage and spying. And since he was considered a living god, there was good reason to believe that some here would follow through on his orders.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (gyKtp)

Not a US mainland thing, but the Niihau Incident was a major factor in the Internments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

I have a tough time with that question, I understand the fear at the time, but the horribly unconstitutional result......

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 02, 2015 11:37 PM (o98Jz)

131 Didn't West Virginia go Republican the last couple of elections? Good sign they are waking up. On the other had they fall for Joe Manchin and his moderate Democrat BS because he is against gun control so that puts the majority in the LIV camp.

Posted by: Hand of Count Petofi at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (0vsws)

132 Tayyeep bin Ardogan is apparently the correct spelling, or at least how somebody thinks it ought to be spelled. Anyway, Qatari citizen.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (dvuhZ)

133 #112 So the story in the NY Post about those celebrations is not proof?

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (kXoT0)

134 Sherry McEvil, been meaning to send you a follow-up email. Hoping your guy's recovery has been as good as can be expected, and that you're holding up, all considered.

Posted by: mindful webworker - positively at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (REkPr)

135 "Plus, @anamariecox actually defended prayer."

In her alcoholic stupor, she turned and looked over her shoulder, and then suddenly saw what was headed straight for the ol' squeakhole. Too much of a good thing?

Posted by: torquewrench at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (noWW6)

136 Mother's side of the family is from WV -- Charleston and Parkersburg.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (EzgxV)

137 Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:36 PM (wHX4r)

Probably not!

As if anyone "lets" a West Virginian woman do anything.

If she wants to do it, it's gettin' done.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (RuxkS)

138 Ok been following this all day. Please. Can someone tell me what the fuck happened? Or is this whole event going down the memory hole because "narrative"?

Islamic extremists? Sad little po me refugees?
3rd generation but poor sexy jihadi wannabes?

What. Who why how . God no journalism without color of bias. What happened!

Posted by: Derak at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (rWQV9)

139 Tayip Erdogan is the president of Turkey

Posted by: blaster at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (2Ocf1)

140 77 Kos put a whole shoe warehouse in his mouth today

https://twitter.com/markos/status/672143414750658560

Markos Moulitsas
@markos

Yo GOP, kinda hard to talk about "keeping people safe" when your peeps are shooting up America.

3:00 PM - 2 Dec 2015

Posted by: kbdabear

Make sure that tweet is saved somewhere. He made a comment back in 02 I believe that was pretty vile. When those contractors were hanged on a bridge in Iraq. That post was "disappeared". Its still out there but hard to locate it.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (NGd+i)

141 87 But the emperor Hirohito was exhorting the Japanese living in the US to commit acts of sabotage and spying. And since he was considered a living god, there was good reason to believe that some here would follow through on his orders.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (

Didn't one of Ann Coulter's book publicize the fact that there was a well established spy network in the Japanese community on the west coast?

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (hrqLp)

142 This sounds almost as bad as Detroit.
---

There was no mention of burnt out crack houses, so not quite Detroit.

Posted by: Your Betters at the MSM and in the Government at December 02, 2015 11:40 PM (9JJgN)

143 Posted by: cthulhu at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (EzgxV)

More city folk, good lord.

Is it just the Hillbilly King and I to represent up in here?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:40 PM (RuxkS)

144 The Great Transfomationist campaigned against coal during, before and after his first and second campaigns. He carried West Virginia in both elections.

West Virginia is the stupidest state in the union.

Posted by: Ralph at December 02, 2015 11:40 PM (4ihv2)

145 All these hipsters talking about going off grid got nothing an a good old WV mountain boy.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:40 PM (wHX4r)

146 103 Did not live in West Virgins many years and I was young. Bu I gather it will be the Afghanistan of our future Muslim Overlords.
Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:28 PM (wHX4r)
***
A better song, in my estimation.
https://youtu.be/WFiS8Pc_9ng

I live in a flat, dry land - the memory of how green and lush WV is breaks my heart at times.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:40 PM (lutOX)

147 #134 Sorry, you missed my earlier posts tonight. He's doing hospice. It will be days or maybe a week or two.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:41 PM (kXoT0)

148 140 Make sure that tweet is saved somewhere. He made a comment back in 02 I believe that was pretty vile. When those contractors were hanged on a bridge in Iraq. That post was "disappeared". Its still out there but hard to locate it.

Not all that hard -- it's quoted in full on his Wikipedia page.

Posted by: Splunge at December 02, 2015 11:41 PM (iMxBJ)

149 In her alcoholic stupor, she turned and looked over her shoulder, and then suddenly saw what was headed straight for the ol' squeakhole.

A bear phallus? That would scare me, too.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 02, 2015 11:41 PM (Zmat4)

150 San Bernadino, and yes I know there's an extra r, is not lacking for crack houses.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:41 PM (RuxkS)

151 On 9-11 the Feds picked up a flood of cell and other traffic loaded with cheering and Allah Snackbar!

Trump is right.

Posted by: eman at December 02, 2015 11:41 PM (MQEz6)

152 >>>Didn't one of Ann Coulter's book publicize the
fact that there was a well established spy network in the Japanese
community on the west coast?Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (hrqLp)
<<<

Michelle Malkin devoted a book in defense of internment.

Posted by: Ralph at December 02, 2015 11:42 PM (4ihv2)

153 No, the Test Ban Treaty was not part of the Kennedy Platform of 1960, but of course, he grew in office, after the Cuban missile crisis, etc., which followed his humiliation by Kruschev (in private) in a meeting in Vienna in 1961.

Yes, the so-called "missile gap" which didn't exist, and Nixon could say nothing about because he knew the classified truth. Yes, he ran as a Cold War Hawk; we will pay any price, bear any burden. Kennedy speak, which the Democrats are really good at.

And Whiz Kid McNamara killed the B-70, because it was a dumb idea. And killed the Skybolt missile, too.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:42 PM (+1T7c)

154 >>As if anyone "lets" a West Virginian woman do anything.

I'd let you make me a sammich, Tammy.

Because I am a giver.

Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 11:42 PM (6dAqB)

155 As a resident of West Virginia, the "President" can rest assured that the feeling is very much mutual.

Posted by: Punch Rockgroin at December 02, 2015 11:42 PM (g2DAI)

156 145 All these hipsters talking about going off grid got nothing an a good old WV mountain boy.
Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:40 PM (wHX4r)
***
Spent the first five years of my life in a stone farmhouse. Had the well in the kitchen, by the woodstove.

No electricity, no running water, no phone.

Sometimes, I think about moving back there.....

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:43 PM (lutOX)

157 I have a tough time with that question, I understand the fear at the time, but the horribly unconstitutional result......

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 02, 2015 11:37 PM (o98Jz)
The Constitution is not a death pact. Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus and freedom of the press during the Civil War. Desperate times, etc. Martial law is not compatible with Constitutional guarantees either, but sometimes has proven necessary.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 02, 2015 11:43 PM (oKE6c)

158 Tayyeep bin Ardogan is apparently the correct spelling, or at least how somebody thinks it ought to be spelled. Anyway, Qatari citizen.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (dvuhZ)

That does look like a Turkish name, though.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 02, 2015 11:43 PM (Zmat4)

159 109. Idaho is great, son lives in Moscow

Posted by: Edmund Burke's Shade at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (cmBvC)

160 As if anyone "lets" a West Virginian woman do anything.>>>

I feared those little old lunch ladies more than I did my male teachers. They had the double whammy. Beat your ass and tell Mom.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (wHX4r)

161 "All these hipsters talking about going off grid got nothing an a good old WV mountain boy."

Okay, I got that raffle thing you were talking about.

Which end do the bullets go in again? I forgot.

Posted by: Back To The Land Urban Hipster at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (noWW6)

162 112 reply to Maet --

I do think that Trump conflated the Gaza City videos of thousands of Palis cheering 9/11 with local NYC news reports from multiple news outlets as described by Breitbart that smallish crowds of NJ muzzies were seen celebrating.

But Trump is closer to the truth than the NYT, which straight up denies it all in the US.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (gyKtp)

163 133 #112 So the story in the NY Post about those celebrations is not proof?
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (kXoT0)

Here is what Trump actually said:
'And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.'

Please show me the video of this incident in NJ.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (wqVD1)

164 The Great Transfomationist campaigned against coal during, before and
after his first and second campaigns. He carried West Virginia in both
elections.

***

Incorrect. Romney won WV in '12.

Posted by: Punch Rockgroin at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (g2DAI)

165 131. How does the proposed disaster of the Toomey Manchin Gun Control bill sit with West Virginians?

Posted by: rd at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (Ltj2h)

166 Gnu Breed. You're correct, but that misses the point I was making there.

Which was that our resident muzzie population is already camel-hump-deep with known terrorists, attackers and combatants. And nearly their entire society is nothing less than a logistical support system for their planning, feeding, transportation, training, arming and deployment.

If the Japanese were such a threat as to warrant interment in WWII, then the muzzies are a far greater danger.

How to deal with that danger, is the question.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (McRlu)

167 153
No, the Test Ban Treaty was not part of the Kennedy Platform of 1960,
but of course, he grew in office, after the Cuban missile crisis, etc.,
which followed his humiliation by Kruschev (in private) in a meeting in
Vienna in 1961.

Yes, the so-called "missile gap" which didn't
exist, and Nixon could say nothing about because he knew the classified
truth. Yes, he ran as a Cold War Hawk; we will pay any price, bear any
burden. Kennedy speak, which the Democrats are really good at.

And Whiz Kid McNamara killed the B-70, because it was a dumb idea. And killed the Skybolt missile, too.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:42 PM (+1T7c)

I'm a history major (shut up) and I took a graduate course on the 1960s in college and amazingly the professor went into great detail about how Kennedy was not a good president. Civil Rights? He sucked. Foreign Relations? He sucked. I also had a professor who talked truth about slavery. What can I say I live in flyover country.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 02, 2015 11:45 PM (4ErVI)

168 That's tough Sherry. When I was in your spot Romans 5 & psalm 1, 19, & 23 helped. Along with a great spouse. I'm pulling for you folks. It's tough I know

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:45 PM (pahrJ)

169 Didn't one of Ann Coulter's book publicize the fact that there was a well established spy network in the Japanese community on the west coast?
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (hrqLp)

Are you thinking of Michelle Malkin's, In Defense of Internment?

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:45 PM (kXoT0)

170 At least people's words of sympathy (thoughts and prayers) don't actually hurt anyone. The left is pushing this absurd angle that it's ineffective, and therefore a joke, while simultaneously pushing for laws that deny freedoms to law abiding citizens and are equally ineffective.

Liberals offer prayers in response to tragedy, too, only it's to a gluttonous, slothful god named Government. He'll devour your offerings of personal freedoms, promise not to devour you, and then fail to solve your problem, raise new ones, and doom your children to eternal servitude.

Seems like "Thoughts and Prayers" isn't so bad after all.

Posted by: Grimaldi at December 02, 2015 11:45 PM (ysjpY)

171 [iWhen FDR interred the Japanese descendants in the Western U.S. during WWII, there hadn't been a single known attack or attempt on the U.S. mainland from an ethnic Japanese.

True, but there was the Niihau incident where ethnic Japanese residents of Hawaii aided a downed Pearl Harbor flyer to the extent of busting him out of jail (killing a couple of US citizens in the process.)

Posted by: ChicagoRefugee at December 02, 2015 11:45 PM (b/PFG)

172 Ardowan, Ardogan, Erdogan with the caret over the g.

I wonder if *Ardavan is the root; Persian rather than Turkish. As in Artabanos.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 02, 2015 11:46 PM (6FqZa)

173 I'd let you make me a sammich, Tammy.

Because I am a giver.
Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 11:42 PM (6dAqB)

And I would make you the best damn sammy you ever had, my darling.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:46 PM (RuxkS)

174 It's not crack in W. Virginia. More like crystal meth. The drug of choice for many of our rural youth.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:46 PM (+1T7c)

175 Hi all
I actually went to the Arabia Steamboat Museum
It is a pretty neat place, worth a weekend afternoon visit

Posted by: chemjeff at December 02, 2015 11:46 PM (uZNvH)

176 You don't hunt Hipsters with a raffle, boy.

You gotta get yerself a scattergun!

Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (6dAqB)

177 You can tell bears are stupid by their low foreheads. They are subhuman. Do not feel guilty if one tries to maul you and you need to blow that motherfuvking dicaorio cock suvking dcumballl furry lump of ship to'mimfetno.a

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (0dXaM)

178 163 133 #112 So the story in the NY Post about those celebrations is not proof?
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (kXoT0)

Here is what Trump actually said:
'And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.'

Please show me the video of this incident in NJ.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 02, 2015 11:44 PM (wqV

Architecture critics!!!! I knew it!

Posted by: cthulhu at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (EzgxV)

179 @Markos from Daily Kos has NOT deleted his Tweet yet that a Republican did San Bernadino, in case people want to screen cap it or retweet it.

Anyone know what Charles #ChucklesTheDancingClown's reaction was? Did he blame right wingnuts as well?

Posted by: Ed Mahmoud at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (qTj9i)

180 Kennedy refused a lot of civil rights initiatives because he needed those southern votes.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (4ErVI)

181 Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 02, 2015 11:46 PM (6FqZa)

I bow to your superior knowledge, Zim. I just know it doesn't sound Arabic!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (RuxkS)

182 Hey cooth.

Posted by: SMFH at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (zyIlW)

183 Fucking CAIR on with the speech they prepared years ago.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (T78UI)

184 CAIR on al Jazeera.
Phooey. sleepy time

Posted by: Mallflower at December 02, 2015 11:48 PM (qSIlh)

185 Upon further research, Obuttsex didn't win WV in '08 either.

(Didn't live here then.)

Posted by: Punch Rockgroin at December 02, 2015 11:48 PM (g2DAI)

186 ... yeah, yeah; "the train is fine"

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 02, 2015 11:48 PM (6FqZa)

187 141 Didn't one of Ann Coulter's book publicize the fact that there was a well established spy network in the Japanese community on the west coast?

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (hrqLp)

Dunno. I do know that Michelle Malkin wrote a book saying that the internments were justified. She was roundly vilified for doing so.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:48 PM (gyKtp)

188 Fox is actually broadcasting a CAIR press conference live. Inter their asses, or better deport them all back to cornholeistan.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 02, 2015 11:48 PM (dvuhZ)

189 with the various rumors of celebrations happening in NJ.
---
They were not rumors.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (MbrzC)

190 I think Kosfucker was referring to the PP shooter in his Tweet, not the San Bernandino shooters.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (RuxkS)

191 Like I fucking care what CAIR says.

Posted by: SMFH at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (zyIlW)

192 George Lucas isn't a douche. A douche serves a very useful purpose. But the ret-con stuff is annoying. And rather than admit that he has changed, he says "Well, I didn't have the proper time or budget to shoot it the way I envisioned it." Riiiiiiiiiight.

Posted by: Darth Randall at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (KlVdw)

193 My Mom was sixteen and living in Santa Barbara when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. She said that in a way, the internment was actually a good thing, because the civilian population was ready to take matters into their own hands.

Posted by: Old Blue at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (9iR5/)

194 173: Tammy's making sammitches? Damn.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (ucDmr)

195 thanks, Tammy; but I'm just spitballing here :^)

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (6FqZa)

196 >> And Whiz Kid McNamara killed the B-70, because it was a
>> dumb idea. And killed the Skybolt missile, too.

The B-70 was...it wasn't a dumb idea the day it was conceived, but it was an idea with a measurably short shelf-life.

Common sense dictates that the guy who can make a missile with a sixty-mile slant range and 50K-ft ceiling is, eventually, going to be able to double those numbers if he wants to, and so the bet is on how long it takes him to do it.

So it's a race to the top, so to speak, but at best you've got a ten-year window to play with.

Posted by: JEM at December 02, 2015 11:49 PM (o+SC1)

197 Sometimes, I think about moving back there.....>>>

My family has a primitive cabin like that. I think of pitching all this modern crap and remember waiting in bed for someone else to start the fire. Now even remote those problems can be fixed with propane and batteries. But How would I endure without the sweet musings of the horde?

Posted by: Willy J. at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (wHX4r)

198 "then where is the video"

There's a link to a news report in my sig.

Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (Z/8dZ)

199 161 "All these hipsters talking about going off grid got nothing an a good old WV mountain boy."

The very thought of self-absorbed hipsters going "off the grid" makes me giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous.

Can any of you morons image Pajama Boy going "off the grid?"

Who would make him his hot chocolate?

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (Zmat4)

200 135 "Plus, @anamariecox actually defended prayer."

In her alcoholic stupor, she turned and looked over her shoulder, and then suddenly saw what was headed straight for the ol' squeakhole. Too much of a good thing?

I believe that she is a Christian now. Read that a few months back.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (NGd+i)

201 @176 Garrett what gauge do you recommend? I have scatter guns. I'm figuring my WW naval SP Remington 12 pump would work. Your thoughts?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (pahrJ)

202 Idaho is under attack. They are purposely targeting with massive Muslim refugee resettlement in Twin Falls. and Boise. #toowhite

If you come here come prepared to fight. There is no where to run.

Posted by: Derak at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (rWQV9)

203 182 Hey cooth.

Posted by: SMFH at December 02, 2015 11:47 PM (zyIlW)

Howdy, howdy!!!

Posted by: cthulhu at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (EzgxV)

204 188 Fox is actually broadcasting a CAIR press conference
---
But of course... question is why are you watching?

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 02, 2015 11:51 PM (MbrzC)

205 No electricity, no running water, no phone.

Sometimes, I think about moving back there.....
Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:43 PM (lutOX)

Ditto, only I was in GA and it was until I was 8. And it was a cabin, not a stone house.

Only think I miss is air conditioning when I go back, and I just time my visits around it if I can.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:51 PM (RuxkS)

206 114

no way, so much for my repuitation.

I left Ohio when I was still in diapers....

Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2015 11:51 PM (QelBn)

207 143 More city folk, good lord.
Is it just the Hillbilly King and I to represent up in here?
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:40 PM

Turtle Creek? Daddy said it is just over the line from Tridelphia? He used to talk about Valley Coal Camp, but I don't remember which number it was.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 02, 2015 11:51 PM (Vm8WO)

208 CAIR muslim parade ...

Ship all of these lowlife pieces of shit out of here.

The fuck ...

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 02, 2015 11:52 PM (zc3Db)

209 Markos tweet is 9 hours old, not Colorado Springs.

https://twitter.com/SooperMexican/status/672147205860564992

Posted by: Ed Mahmoud at December 02, 2015 11:52 PM (qTj9i)

210 News report at the time said there were "swarms" of celebrants in NJ.

Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (Z/8dZ)

211 Fuckin Horde....

You're a beautiful people.

I raise my glass with a tear in my eye.....

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (AgTww)

212 I'm watching this CAIR thing and haha look at how the woman deferred to the man.

Seriously though I'm not advocating we kill all of these people. No way. I just say deport all of them back to their country of origin. It's a win win for everyone.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (4ErVI)

213 Which extreme ideology would that be, Mohammed?

Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (6dAqB)

214 I believe that she is a Christian now. Read that a few months back.
Posted by: Puddleglum at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (NGd+i)

I remember reading about it. That her conversion astounds her to this day and that she tried to fight it off with logic, etc.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (kXoT0)

215 "And Whiz Kid McNamara killed the B-70, because it was a dumb idea."

Not sure that the B-70 ever penciled out on paper, but the ostensible reason for killing it, per SecDef McNamara's systems analysts, was that advanced Soviet SAMs made the high speed, high altitude bomber concept obsolete.

The SR-71 later showed that it was extremely hard to hit a Mach 3, FL80 target with a ground launched SAM. It's gone before most of the missiles even ascend.

Also, the USSR had a serious scaling problem on air defense. Ring-fence urban Moscow with advanced SAM defenses? Sure. A snap. Do the same thing for the entire border of an empire that sprawls over eleven time zones? Not so easy. Nor affordable.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (noWW6)

216 Polish Jews down one side, German Jews down the other.....

Took Irish names, because, as great-grandmother said, "Everybody had names like that, and we wanted to fit in."

We went native in two generations.... Jew-billies of the first water. Arguing about what game was kashrut, etc....

Went to my first 'real' synagogue when I was 19, in Boston.... Realized for the first time that we had been praying in a sort of phonetic germano-hebrew-yiddish all those years.

West Virginia will do that to you.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (lutOX)

217 She said that in a way, the internment was actually a
good thing, because the civilian population was ready to take matters
into their own hands.

Posted by: Old Blue

I've heard that from a few people who were alive at the time. If you go back to Teddy Roosevelt's days, there was a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment in California then, as they came is a cheap labor.

This is a recurrent cycle in American history, by the way. Waves of cheap immigrant labor coming in to lower the cost of production. Then it stops for a while, and things reach and equilibrium again.

But this time, opening the door wide to an endless stream of poor people south of the border??? Alternatively, we conquer Mexico and make them all US Citizens.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (+1T7c)

218 Are you fucking kidding me Fox News?? CAIR is a fucking terrorist sympathizing organization. Fuck you CAIR!

Posted by: Timon at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (KSonr)

219 CAIR offering prayers for the victims

For some reason I don't think the Left will be mocking them for saying prayers

Posted by: kbdabear at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (GrXXa)

220 iWhen FDR interred the Japanese descendants in the Western U.S. during
WWII, there hadn't been a single known attack or attempt on the U.S.
mainland from an ethnic Japanese.

There wasn't a single known attack or attempt on U.S. territory from an ethnic Japanese as Dec. 6, 1941, either.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (oKE6c)

221 148 140 Make sure that tweet is saved somewhere. He made a comment back in 02 I believe that was pretty vile. When those contractors were hanged on a bridge in Iraq. That post was "disappeared". Its still out there but hard to locate it.

Not all that hard -- it's quoted in full on his Wikipedia page.
Posted by: Splunge

Heh! Good. I didn't think to look there. He's a despicable little twerp.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (NGd+i)

222 West Virginia has got too many damn monsters. Mountain Monsters, Mothman, etc. I prefer monster-free states.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (iDWKC)

223 Yea, but here's the thing about the internment, and believe me, I understand why they felt they had to do it, so I am not judging that.... but a lot of Japanese farmers had their farms stolen.

I have two friends whose families were interred. One lost everything, the other ones' farm looked better than when he left it, because his neighbors, all white men, took turns tending to it while he was gone. I think he raised table grapes (for raisins, not wine).

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:55 PM (RuxkS)

224 Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Sarah Saldana struggled to explain why the deportations of criminal aliens from the U.S. have declined to nearly half the level removed in 2011. - breitbart
----
What's to struggle with repeat after me: "Because my bosses told me too."

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 02, 2015 11:55 PM (MbrzC)

225 God, I know I used the wrong word, I just don't feel like changing it, sorry.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:55 PM (RuxkS)

226 I remember reading about it. That her conversion astounds her to this day and that she tried to fight it off with logic, etc.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (kXoT0)

So has her blogging/writing changed at all?

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 02, 2015 11:55 PM (Zmat4)

227 CAIR.

Bless it's fucking heart.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 02, 2015 11:56 PM (RU5ki)

228

wow

CAIR presser

they are repulsive. acting like it was a tornado and not the act of man and a choice

they make my skin crawl

and this "paster sarah" STFU valley girl

Posted by: ThunderB at December 02, 2015 11:56 PM (zOTsN)

229 Fox News is part of the Establishment.

Posted by: eman at December 02, 2015 11:56 PM (MQEz6)

230 "then where is the video"

Sorry, battery on my iPhone died recording the carnage in New York City.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 02, 2015 11:56 PM (T78UI)

231 Liberals offer prayers in response to tragedy, too, only it's to a gluttonous, slothful god named Government. He'll devour your offerings of personal freedoms, promise not to devour you, and then fail to solve your problem, raise new ones, and doom your children to eternal servitude.

What am I, chopped liver? On your knees, mortal!

Posted by: Global Warming at December 02, 2015 11:56 PM (kGrwF)

232 219 Are you fucking kidding me Fox News?? CAIR is a fucking terrorist sympathizing organization. Fuck you CAIR! Fox News.

Posted by: Timon at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (KSonr)
----
Fixed that for you.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 02, 2015 11:56 PM (MbrzC)

233 And when you're John Wayne, you don't shoot people [first] - you let them have the first shot.

That's ridiculous. Lucas must have never seen any John Wayne movies.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (zc3Db)

234 Yes, CAIR, I know all about your prayers.

You alone do we worship, and You alone do we ask for help.
Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray.
Amen.

According to almost every Muslim exegete ever, that means "not the Jews, nor the Christians". Show me where in, say, the Lord's Prayer any Christian exegete ever interpreted Jesus as saying "and lead us not into Judaism"

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (6FqZa)

235 Maet, about 213. Can you whack it with TB3K? It's back.

Posted by: Old Blue at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (9iR5/)

236 "hateful rhetoric" and ... an "environment" that "breeds acts of violence."

You mean like rap music?

Oh, no!! Must'nt say that~!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (9YDUz)

237 CAIR

Josef Goebbels mourns the plight of the Jews.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (RU5ki)

238 Posted by: Ed Mahmoud at December 02, 2015 11:52 PM (qTj9i)

Ah, my bad. For some reason I thought it was from this morning. I should have known since he was referencing all the thoughts and prayers that it was about the SB stuff.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (RuxkS)

239 12 Gauge is effective.

... but a 28 Gauge allows you to shoot each Hipster multiple times. A benefit that truly can't be overlooked.

Posted by: Garrett at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (6dAqB)

240 Sherry McEvil: Sorry, you missed my earlier posts tonight. He's doing hospice. It will be days or maybe a week or two.

God bless you both.

All I saw tonight were comments on the threads about the SB shooting, which I read and read until my eyes started bleeding, then went to watch some superhero tv to recover.

Posted by: mindful webworker - exsanguinely at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (REkPr)

241 Yeah, "inter" is to bury. Internment (and I don't believe there is a verb form) which I screwed up above as well is confinement. Well, actually, I looked up and "to intern" is indeed the verb form, meaning to confine. It's just "intern" has more common unrelated meaning, as in what Bill screws.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 02, 2015 11:59 PM (dvuhZ)

242 It's Pillbilly's and heroin, in addition to your shake bake meth....

Joe could very well losethe next election because of the Gun dumbness that has overtaken his inbred mind...

My HillbillyQueen (Amazon-Wonder Woman type) does whatever the fuck she wants, whenever she wants......

And looks Amazing on the tractor and with my KAC in her hands....

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 02, 2015 11:59 PM (AgTww)

243 Yea, but here's the thing about the internment, and believe me, I
understand why they felt they had to do it, so I am not judging that....
but a lot of Japanese farmers had their farms stolen.

A lot of non-Japanese had their lives stolen. So ... hard cheese.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 02, 2015 11:59 PM (oKE6c)

244 "Emory University is among the most diverse elite private institutions."
-----------------------

Ah, yes. The school where for at least 40 years it has been said, "Emory, the school where the girls are girls, and the boys are too."

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 02, 2015 11:59 PM (9mTYi)

245 Never mind. Thanks

Posted by: Old Blue at December 02, 2015 11:59 PM (9iR5/)

246 Anyone mention CAIR were unindicted co-conspirators in a case of a Texas mosque sending money to Palestinian terrorists, 'Holy Land Foundation. I think. Almost 15 years ago.

They have been supporting the jihad for a long time.

Posted by: Ed Mahmoud at December 02, 2015 11:59 PM (qTj9i)

247 210 News report at the time said there were "swarms" of celebrants in NJ.

Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (Z/8dZ)
---
...and one of the address the FBI checked out of this had several people arrested, later they realized they'd been to the same house before... right after the first trade center bombing. (CBS news report at the time) But you know.. none of this happened cause some MSM said it didn't cause you know they 'checked' and everything.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:00 AM (MbrzC)

248 R.I.P.Sandy Berger

No truth to the rumor that he will be interred at the National Archives.

Posted by: whatmeworry? at December 03, 2015 12:00 AM (dZGNV)

249 what a load of self serving crap from CAIR and the family

you know the IDF just blew up a terrorists family home tonight

I wish we did that

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:00 AM (zOTsN)

250 Night, Horde, going to take my sad exhausted self off to bed.

I sure hope we can find a way to deal with all these work place violence folks, for goodness sake, if they are screaming for a Snackbar, throw them a Snickers**.

** after seasoning it appropriately, wink, wink, nudge, nudge....

Sorry after all of this and the continued monumental stupidity of insisting that we must bring 100,000 or so young mean screaming for Snackbars to this country has me sad, worried, and angry.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 03, 2015 12:00 AM (kXoT0)

251 Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:53 PM (lutOX)

I had no idea there was even a synagogue in WV!

Definitely from up north aways.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:00 AM (RuxkS)

252 There's a link to a news report in my sig.
Posted by: Lauren at December 02, 2015 11:50 PM (Z/8dZ)

Please show me the video of the Muslims celebrating in NJ that Trump claims to have seen. A mere report of some celebrating does not back up Trump's statement.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:01 AM (wqVD1)

253 Josef Goebbels mourns the plight of the Jews.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (RU5ki)
---
haha that's darn good.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:01 AM (MbrzC)

254 Hugs Sherry.

Goodnight.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 12:01 AM (zyIlW)

255 Good night, Sherry, sleep well. I wasn't just mouthing platitudes when I said I'd pray for you and your love. Please keep us posted.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:01 AM (RuxkS)

256 I have 2-12s & 2-20s I suppose I could find a .410 gauge or a 28 gauge.

Thanks Garrett

Also folks thanks for the WV info. Sounds like a lovely state to visit

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 03, 2015 12:01 AM (8PcKC)

257 #202

yup, I have a relative near twin.

Twin Falls is the worst place in ID to put moslems.

I picked up some beer today in Boise, of course saw some midget fat lady in traditional muzzie gear.

side note, all the mussine in traditional gear are fat, way fat like 240 pounds fat the few I have seen

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:02 AM (QelBn)

258 Anyone mention CAIR were unindicted co-conspirators in a case of a Texas
mosque sending money to Palestinian terrorists, 'Holy Land Foundation. I
think. Almost 15 years ago.

Not the Muslim-American Bund?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:02 AM (oKE6c)

259 If you read about the two flying versions of the XB-70, the one that was the best flyer (the one that crashed in the flight film episode) could consistently cruise at Mach 2.2-2.4. Running up to Mach 3 was pretty hard on the airframe, though. And they only flew that fast on a couple of occasions. The airframe would expand from the heat and all the white paint would come off.

The XB-70 was largely stainless steel under the paint. The wings were made by a special honeycomb forming process. It was an incredible piece of technology. It would have been a formidable strategic deterrent weapon, because it would have made the Soviets spend a huge amount of money on air defense. And that was the purpose of strategic deterrent; to make the enemy (USSR) spend money on something until they went broke.

And it would have foreshadowed the technology to build an American SST, bigger and better than the Concorde.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (+1T7c)

260 dozens of publically celebrating muslims is different than no publically celebrating muslims

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (zOTsN)

261 The video I saw was ~~Amalekites~~ Muslims celebrating in the West Bank. It was (reputable) news accounts on the web that I read about them doing that in NJ too.

Possible Trump is conflating these.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (6FqZa)

262 West Virginia is absolutely gorgeous. I highly recommend the southern border along VA especially, but it's gorgeous everywhere.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (RuxkS)

263 All these hipsters talking about going off grid got nothing an a good old WV mountain boy.

So, no smartphones, tweeting, internet, instant messaging, selfies, taking pictures of their restaurant lunch and tweeting it to all their idiot friends?
Yeah, right.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (kGrwF)

264 Woke up and had to see what was going on.

Posted by: Skip at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (E8oTQ)

265 ... but a 28 Gauge allows you to shoot each Hipster multiple times. A benefit that truly can't be overlooked.>>>

28 Gauge. dam your lucky dad was willing to let you start shooting in kindergarten.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (wHX4r)

266 God bless you both.

All I saw tonight were comments on the threads about the SB
shooting, which I read and read until my eyes started bleeding, then
went to watch some superhero tv to recover.

Posted by: mindful webworker - exsanguinely at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (REkPr)

This agnostic did offer up prayers. I don't know what it's worth, but there it is. I'm hoping for a miracle.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (4ErVI)

267 Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (+1T7c)

Chinamen didn't commit 1/3 of all felonies either.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (4ihv2)

268 I always enjoyed driving through WV.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (zyIlW)

269 #247 I know it happened here in Oklahoma in a classroom at OU because my cousin was in the classroom. Being backward h8tr Okies, the two young men who jumped to their feet ululating in joy at the announcement got the snot beat out of them and then the school advised them to leave because their safety could not be guaranteed.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (kXoT0)

270 Please show me the video of the Muslims celebrating in NJ that Trump claims to have seen. A mere report of some celebrating does not back up Trump's statement.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:01 AM (wqVD1)

No. First show us the reports of Muslims here deprecating the attacks on 9/11.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:04 AM (oKE6c)

271 Good night Sherry. Prayers for you during this awful time.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 12:04 AM (Vm8WO)

272 Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Sarah Saldana...

I notice this over and over, and at all levels.

Orwell predicted Big Brother, we got Big Sister.

Posted by: t-bird at December 03, 2015 12:05 AM (mxCgt)

273 Alternatively, we conquer Mexico and make them all US Citizens.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 02, 2015 11:54 PM (+1T7c)

Works for me.

Posted by: Zombie Winfield Scott at December 03, 2015 12:05 AM (vBeA5)

274 "A mere report of some celebrating does not back up Trump's statement"

That's not what you claimed in your headline or what I challenged. You said "The Bottom Line: There Were No Publicly Celebrating Muslims in New Jersey on 9/11"

I gave you proof that this statement was false. There were publicly celebrating muslims in New Jersey on 9/11 as evidenced by multiple media accounts from the days following.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:05 AM (Kqit+)

275 190 I think Kosfucker was referring to the PP shooter in his Tweet, not the San Bernandino shooters.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor

Except he posted that today.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 03, 2015 12:06 AM (NGd+i)

276 heheh Sherry.

Yeah, celebrating in OK or TX is a big no-no in regards to shooting up innocent people.

I have yet to celebrations in Killeen when Ft Hood was shot up.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 12:06 AM (zyIlW)

277 Please show me the video of the Muslims celebrating in NJ that Trump claims to have seen. A mere report of some celebrating does not back up Trump's statement.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:01 AM (wqVD1)

It does back up the claim that Muslims in New Jersey were celebrating. In other words Trump is more correct than your link that there were none.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:06 AM (zt+N6)

278 #235

Garret got banned?

He is old skool, like way old school here

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:06 AM (QelBn)

279 According to almost every Muslim exegete ever, that means "not the Jews, nor the Christians". Show me where in, say, the Lord's Prayer any Christian exegete ever interpreted Jesus as saying "and lead us not into Judaism"

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (6FqZa)

Well, pretty much the entire Epistle to the Hebrews is an exhortation to Hebrew Christians not to return to the Judaism from whence they came. Does that count?

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 03, 2015 12:07 AM (Zmat4)

280 Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:05 AM (Kqit+)
---
I noticed the goal post being moved on you as well.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:07 AM (MbrzC)

281 but a 28 Gauge allows you to shoot each Hipster multiple times.

Is 28 gauge those little .22 shells that are crimped at the end? I always imagined they shot sand or salt.

Posted by: t-bird at December 03, 2015 12:07 AM (mxCgt)

282 Except he posted that today.
Posted by: Puddleglum at December 03, 2015 12:06 AM (NGd+i)

I mea culpad upthread!

But it still sounded to me like he meant the PP thing,

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:07 AM (RuxkS)

283 All these hipsters talking about going off grid got nothing an a good old WV mountain boy.

My brother worked for a company that manufactured mining equipment. He would go out in the field for quality control. He had a lot of respect for miners. And he said that their strikes were successful because they could hold out without pay for long periods of time. Hipsters can hold out without pay by living in their mom's basements, not by growing their own food and hunting.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 03, 2015 12:07 AM (kGrwF)

284 The Bottom Line: There Were No Publicly Celebrating Muslims in New Jersey on 9/11

Except John Nolte over at Breitbart has cataloged almost a dozen news reports of it happening, including film of a local Jersey news report from just days after the attack. Rudi Giuliani is on record as saying that it occurred.

Sorry Maet, I think this one has been debunked.

Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 12:07 AM (N8hFs)

285 West Virginia has got too many damn monsters. Mountain Monsters, Mothman, etc. I prefer monster-free states.

Don't forget....

The Hunt for Bat Boy

https://youtu.be/DKcGkR9IJi8

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 12:08 AM (AgTww)

286 Jake - I think 213 at the time was raykon, and when it got nuked garrett's 214 became 213

welcome to minx 0.7 alpha

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 03, 2015 12:08 AM (6FqZa)

287
I know I saw Obama's mentor Rev Wright talking about Americas chickens coming home to roost with great smiles, theatrics and applause.

That was enough for me to know who he was anyway.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 03, 2015 12:08 AM (ODxAs)

288 278
#235

Garret got banned?

He is old skool, like way old school here
----------
Nah, it was that I Love Jesus nitwit that I asked Maet to drop the Acme safe on.

Posted by: Old Blue at December 03, 2015 12:08 AM (9iR5/)

289 I'm pretty sure I remember correctly that during the Clinton administration a couple of Chinese families sought asylum here because the wives were pregnant and the Chinese government was going to force them to abort. Clinton sent them right back to China in time for their forced abortions.

Obama sent back a German family that was facing having their children taken from them because they were homeschooling.

But let's let in young Muslim "Syrians" who we've been warned have likely been infiltrated by ISIS terrorists!

(Why are we bad people if we don't want to take the Left's suggestions to commit suicide?)

Posted by: Emmie at December 03, 2015 12:09 AM (xHPCo)

290 Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:06 AM (QelBn)

Nah, it wasn't Garrett. I think the numbers are whacked now because a post got deleted.

But someone needs to let me know, so I can eat his sammy if he did get the banhammer!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:09 AM (RuxkS)

291 Also folks thanks for the WV info. Sounds like a lovely state to visit>>>

WV is a beautiful place. But don't go wandering outside State parks without a local guide. The locals cn be territorial and rocksalt is a pain in the ass.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:09 AM (wHX4r)

292 That's not what you claimed in your headline or what I challenged. You said "The Bottom Line: There Were No Publicly Celebrating Muslims in New Jersey on 9/11"
I gave you proof that this statement was false. There were publicly celebrating muslims in New Jersey on 9/11 as evidenced by multiple media accounts from the days following.
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:05 AM (Kqit+)

Okay fine. There may have been some Muslims publicly celebrating 9/11 in NJ. (even though there been no definitive evidence of this actually happening produced thus far).

Then I ask you Lauren - was Trump correct in his statement given above?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:09 AM (wqVD1)

293 Banned is better than Buzzion got.

If I get to keep my Tamwich, I'm ok with it.

Posted by: Garrett at December 03, 2015 12:10 AM (6dAqB)

294 Drove through WV with my then-future-ex-wife when we were moving to Texas.

She was from Louisiana and didn't understand hill people at all...

"Why is everybody so quiet? Why are they staring at us?"

"Because they don't recognize us. People here do not like and do not trust strangers."

I had a similar culture-shock the first time I was in Louisiana: "Why is everybody so friendly? They don't know me from Adam."

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 03, 2015 12:10 AM (lutOX)

295 OregonMuse - I guess my point is that Christians leave that stuff to their argumentative works, and don't put it in their most central communal prayer.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 03, 2015 12:10 AM (6FqZa)

296 Oh, excellent point, Emmie!

Still getting used tot hat, btw. How are you?

I am in such perfume drought, it's pathetic.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:10 AM (RuxkS)

297 262: Tammy, so true. Gorgeous place. I could retire there. The wife, not so much.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 03, 2015 12:10 AM (ucDmr)

298 It's not like Trump said a video caused the Benghazi attacks or the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 12:11 AM (MQEz6)

299 WV is a beautiful place. But don't go wandering outside State parks without a local guide. The locals cn be territorial and rocksalt is a pain in the ass.

--//------

If you hear banjo music,

RUN!

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 03, 2015 12:11 AM (RU5ki)

300 #286/#288

ok, got it

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:11 AM (QelBn)

301 @ 262
West Virginia is absolutely gorgeous. I highly recommend the southern border along VA especially, but it's gorgeous everywhere.

Tammy Dear, don't go givin our secret away....

If people keep movin in, they'll eventually put stop lights up somewhere in the county.....

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 12:11 AM (AgTww)

302 #163 Video of the Jersey City 9/11 Celebration Report (CBS): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3auKMHkZJnQ

Published on Dec 1, 2015Sunday Sept. 16, 2001 CBS Report by Pablo Guzman on 9/11 Celebration in Jersey City

Posted by: Granny Gertrude's Goiter Glue at December 03, 2015 12:11 AM (AqI4R)

303 225-

Our federal government is comprised of nothing but spineless fucks.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at December 03, 2015 12:11 AM (hy5nE)

304 Posted by: Garrett at December 03, 2015 12:10 AM (6dAqB)

You can keep any ol thing your heart desires, Garrett.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:12 AM (RuxkS)

305 Trump was wrong about there being a thousand Muslims in New Jersey publicly celebrating. Will you edit the post to include that he was wrong about the number but right about them celebrating?

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:12 AM (zt+N6)

306 You can keep any ol thing your heart desires, Garrett.

There goes her garters.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at December 03, 2015 12:12 AM (YJmuy)

307 Kaspar,

Truckers are welcomed in WV, however.

Very trucker-friendly state.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 12:13 AM (zyIlW)

308 side note, all the mussine in traditional gear are fat, way fat like 240 pounds fat the few I have seen
Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:02 AM (QelBn)

So that's why I never see fat mid eastern ladies. They're all covering up the cellulite with burkas.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 03, 2015 12:13 AM (kGrwF)

309 284 Except John Nolte over at Breitbart has cataloged almost a dozen news reports of it happening, including film of a local Jersey news report from just days after the attack.
Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 12:07 AM

You left out the part where Nolte apologizes to Trump for repeatedly saying Trump had exaggerated.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 12:13 AM (Vm8WO)

310 Banned is better than Buzzion got.
-------
Yeah, I warned him about buying all those rockets from Acme Safe Company, but do you think he'd listen. No. And now there is a little Buzzion here, a little Buzzion over there, and some more Buzzion over there and...well, I think you get the picture.

Posted by: Old Blue at December 03, 2015 12:13 AM (9iR5/)

311 Muslims in various countries around the world celebrated.
None in New Jersey.

Totally credible.

The MSM spiking replays of the video of the towers, or more specifically people, going down. Never happened because there was no need for it.

The ROP(ma) propaganda program. Never happened because there was no need for it.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 03, 2015 12:13 AM (T78UI)

312 so Farook and his wife were in the SUV and his younger brother is in police custody?

do I have that right?

and the parents have no clue both sons went jihadi?

and the younger man lived with mom and dad?

FFS this whole family is in on it including the weepy BIL

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:13 AM (zOTsN)

313 CAIR were unindicted co-conspirators

Their response is : "Unindicted means we didn't do anything wrong."

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 03, 2015 12:13 AM (FkBIv)

314 If I don't quit now, I'll dream of people trapped in little gray boxes. NTTAWWT...

Good night, Gracies.

Posted by: mindful webworker - sleepily at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (REkPr)

315 McInnes is clever but he completely misunderstand Gotye's song Somebody That I Used To Know. Or rather, he understands the lesson but doesn't credit the author.

No, he's pretty much spot on. Kimber's lines are her inner monologue. Gotye's lines are his bullshit lines to get her back.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (9YDUz)

316 Our federal government is comprised of nothing but spineless fucks.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at December 03, 2015 12:11 AM (hy5nE)

I would like to see this adorning bumper stickers, Tshirts and pillows all across the land.

And please to subscribe me to your jib or something.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (RuxkS)

317 Heh-
loves me some Ms.Tammy.

Posted by: Garrett at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (6dAqB)

318 Night, Mindful!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (RuxkS)

319 It does back up the claim that Muslims in New Jersey were celebrating. In other words Trump is more correct than your link that there were none.
Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:06 AM (zt+N6)

No Trump is still wrong.

And I would like to see some actual proof that there were Muslims celebrating in NJ. Mere reports on the news are sufficient. Certainly it's a possibility but if it actually happened there must be video and police reports right? There must be some evidence somewhere.

Or have we simply drunk the truthiness koolaid of the left?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (wqVD1)

320 Ditto, Garrett, ditto!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:15 AM (RuxkS)

321 CNN: American Muslims celebrating 9/11
https://youtu.be/W5BtQgTGOI4

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:15 AM (39g3+)

322 295 OregonMuse - I guess my point is that Christians leave that stuff to their argumentative works, and don't put it in their most central communal prayer.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 03, 2015 12:10 AM (6FqZa)

OK. But as a Christian, I wasn't particularly offended by the prayer you cited. After all, Muslims gotta muz, and Islam is not exactly an "inclusive" faith.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 03, 2015 12:15 AM (Zmat4)

323 Well, not really, I meant I love me some Garrett,too.

Back atcha is what I ought to have said, good lord.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:16 AM (RuxkS)

324 #308

yuuuuuuge bellies, like 45-50 inch waistes

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:16 AM (QelBn)

325 six of the nineteen 911 hi jackers lived in Paterson immediately prior to the event

no

I am sure they had no support in Paterson. I will tell all the cabbies and working people who say they saw the streets of Paterson clogged with celebrants they are full of shit

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:16 AM (zOTsN)

326 "and this 'paster sarah' STFU valley girl"

And she was, like, 'Bag these toenails', really.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 03, 2015 12:16 AM (noWW6)

327 I know I saw Obama's mentor Rev Wright talking about
Americas chickens coming home to roost with great smiles, theatrics and
applause.

That was enough for me to know who he was anyway.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 03, 2015 12:08 AM (ODxAs)

Never happened.And even if it did, Obamao never went to that church, and there is no proof that he was there for that 'sermon', even if he didn't quit it years later.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 03, 2015 12:16 AM (T78UI)

328 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:15 A

Ft Hood, not Sept 11.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:17 AM (RuxkS)

329 Nite morons I'm out.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 03, 2015 12:17 AM (ucDmr)

330 "(even though there been no definitive evidence of this actually happening produced thus far)."

Multiple reports of it happening by various news organizations is highly conclusive.

As for Trump actually seeing video, I don't know. Until yesterday everyone was saying that he was crazy to think that this had ever been reported at all...but here we are. There might very well be video of it occurring.

I don't really care. I care that after he said that the media went into a fact checking tizzy to pretend that THEY never reported such a crazy thing and that it is evidence that he is a crazy person and that anyone who would believe such a thing is a crazy racist.

But they did report it. And then they lied about it. Hell, the fact checkers own paper reported it and they *still* lied about it.

Trump was 100% right that it was reported that there were muslims dancing and celebrating on rooftops in NJ on 9/11. Now, I don't know if he remembers the video correctly or if he is conflating it with Palestine, but at this point it doesn't matter. The reports exist. He wasn't lying. The best you can hang around his neck now is that he may have misremembered the images accompanying a story from 15 years ago. And that is so petty an issue it wouldn't deserve a response from a politician NOT named Donald Trump.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:17 AM (Kqit+)

331 And I would like to see some actual proof that there
were Muslims celebrating in NJ. Mere reports on the news are
sufficient. Certainly it's a possibility but if it actually happened
there must be video and police reports right? There must be some
evidence somewhere.

Or have we simply drunk the truthiness koolaid of the left?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (wqVD1)

Is there footage of victims jumping to their deaths from the WTC? IIRC, the MSM refused to show any of that, for fear of engendering the long-predicted but not in evidence backlash against our Muslim friends, but no one doubts that that happened.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:17 AM (oKE6c)

332 Doesn't it seem like there's been an awful lot of people being shot by Muslims on American soil since Obama took office? Its almost like he's not doing his job to keep us safe.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:17 AM (39g3+)

333 The MSM spiking replays of the video of the towers, or more specifically people, going down.
---
That pisses me off so much every anniversary, they do all these remembrance specials but almost always cut out the impact scenes and the jumpers. I argue it should be shown, let people see the grit of that day in full force.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:18 AM (MbrzC)

334 I know it happened here in Oklahoma in a classroom at OU because my cousin was in the classroom. Being backward h8tr Okies, the two young men who jumped to their feet ululating in joy at the announcement got the snot beat out of them and then the school advised them to leave because their safety could not be guaranteed.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at December 03, 2015 12:03 AM (kXoT0)

They probably saw all the lefty, politically correct crap on teevee and didn't realize that parts of this country aren't overrun with whiny doormats.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 03, 2015 12:18 AM (kGrwF)

335 I'm pretty sure I remember correctly that during the Clinton administration a couple of Chinese families sought asylum here because the wives were pregnant and the Chinese government was going to force them to abort. Clinton sent them right back to China in time for their forced abortions.

Obama sent back a German family that was facing having their children taken from them because they were homeschooling.

But let's let in young Muslim "Syrians" who we've been warned have likely been infiltrated by ISIS terrorists!

(Why are we bad people if we don't want to take the Left's suggestions to commit suicide?)

Posted by: Emmie at December 03, 2015 12:09 AM (xHPCo)

I am waiting for the GOPe to discuss this with the hypocrite MSM.

Posted by: rd at December 03, 2015 12:18 AM (Ltj2h)

336 IF you think some muslims didn't cheer on 9/11, well, you're dumb.

If you think some leftists didn't cher on 9/11, well, you're dumb.

If you think these facts warrant a two week discussion, guess.the.fuck.what?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 12:18 AM (9YDUz)

337 As for Trump actually seeing video, I don't know.

Did he say that it was video? Or did he say "I saw" because a lot of people report seeing it on that day, not just him.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:18 AM (39g3+)

338 Is 28 gauge those little .22 shells that are crimped at the end? I always imagined they shot sand or salt.
Posted by: t-bird
-------------------

Just spied a used 28 ga. for sale.

Here's side-by-side pic of shells:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cyx2hup

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 12:19 AM (9mTYi)

339 And another great WV story.

Jew-billies, we were and are. My grandfather died, and the women of the family sewed him up in his shroud.

We, his sons and grandsons, hand-dug his grave at the family burial ground, bottles passing between and among us, as is our tradition.

Some jackass from the county drives up, asks if we have a permit, and where's the vault. Pa's body is lying right there, among us.

My favorite aunt, a true honey-badger of a lady - five foot nothing, maybe 200 pounds - grabs his coat lapels, sobbing.

"Mister, this is my daddy. We spent all day digging one hole. Don't make us have to dig another."

He got back in his truck and left.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 03, 2015 12:19 AM (lutOX)

340 well, I have to go to bed, so I will ask my cooking question tomorrow
anyway, when I visited the Arabia museum, they told me that the reason why the 1830's medicines are "mostly unidentified" is on purpose, because they are afraid that they will likely contain cocaine and therefore be illegal
which normally I would think "oh surely it has decomposed by now", but considering how well everything else was preserved, maybe not...

anyway, good night

Posted by: chemjeff at December 03, 2015 12:19 AM (uZNvH)

341 Never happened.And even if it did, Obamao never went to that church, and there is no proof that he was there for that 'sermon', even if he didn't quit it years later.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 03, 2015 12:16 AM (T78UI)

What? Didn't Wright officiate over Obongo's marriage to whatever it is he married? Or do I mis-remember that?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:19 AM (oKE6c)

342 >>>Then I ask you Lauren - was Trump correct in his statement given above?Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:09 AM (wqVD1)
<<<

Modest hyperbole to highlight a truth.
The truth is they have no respect for us.
The truth is there are no moderate Muslims.
Where is the million Muslim saying we are not part of this jihad group and we denounce them.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 12:19 AM (4ihv2)

343 There is a huge amount of America that sucks to live in. We need to teach those that want to invade us this. Yeah we live here but we were born here you don't want this. Go home and be happy.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:20 AM (wHX4r)

344 According to almost every Muslim exegete ever, that means "not the Jews, nor the Christians".

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 02, 2015 11:57 PM (6FqZa)

Little known muzzie trivia among Westerners:

When muzzies say "monotheistic religions" they aren't talking about Christianity or Judaism, just muzziehood. But lots of silly Westerners think the muzzies are talking about the religions of the West.

The muzzies get a real kick out of this. Makes them laugh every time they use it - and muzzies don't laugh very much.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 12:20 AM (zc3Db)

345
Either way, we have thousands of years of history knowing exactly what the muslims are about. We ignore that at our peril.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 03, 2015 12:20 AM (ODxAs)

346 Now they're saying the "Tayyeep bin Ardogan" name is bogus, didn't come from the police. Someone might have indeed been fucking with Turkish president Erdogan's name for kicks.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 12:20 AM (dvuhZ)

347 Never happened.And even if it did, Obamao never went to that church, and there is no proof that he was there for that 'sermon', even if he didn't quit it years later.

Yes, apparently the standard really is "video or it didn't happen" now.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (39g3+)

348 Brad Thor dropping the Hammer on the (unindicted co-conspirator organization) CAIR propaganda press conference that Fox ran with.

Posted by: Thor 2016! at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (VO5mN)

349 That pisses me off so much every anniversary, they do all these remembrance specials but almost always cut out the impact scenes and the jumpers. I argue it should be shown, let people see the grit of that day in full force.
Posted by: ThisBeingMilt
-------------------

Mandatory viewing in schools, once a year, every year starting in the 7th grade.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (9mTYi)

350 "And I would like to see some actual proof that there were Muslims celebrating in NJ. Mere reports on the news are sufficient. Certainly it's a possibility but if it actually happened there must be video and police reports right? There must be some evidence somewhere."

The news report(s) state that some of the people involved were arrested in the following days and that they were known to police from the last attack on the twin towers. Cell phone video didn't really exist in 2001. I mean, I think I got my first phone with a camera in 2004 or so and that thing had like 3 mega pixals.

So no, it is not a given at all that there would be video.

But regardless, and here's the bottom line, there were news reports saying that there were muslims celebrating on rooftops in New Jersey in the days following 9/11. So, when Trump says that he remembers reports of mulims celebrating on the rooftiops in New Jersey he is being completely factual and honest.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (Kqit+)

351 "This was not the Reverend Wright that I knew" - BS that Barack Obama actually said.

Sitting in Wright's church for 20 years, was married there, had his kids baptized there.

Oprah Winfrey actually attended Wright's church for a while and left, saying it was too extreme for her. She must have been awake and listened.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...a rube in America at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (+1T7c)

352 319,

Maet, why do you want more than what you have been shown?

Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (MQEz6)

353 No Trump is still wrong.

And I would like to see some actual proof that there were Muslims celebrating in NJ. Mere reports on the news are sufficient. Certainly it's a possibility but if it actually happened there must be video and police reports right? There must be some evidence somewhere.

Or have we simply drunk the truthiness koolaid of the left?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (wqVD1

The link Lauren provided had video and a reporter talking about it. Did you watch it? Did you listen as it was said the FBI went there and took 8 men into custody?

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (zt+N6)

354 And I would like to see some actual proof that there were Muslims celebrating in NJ. Mere reports on the news are sufficient. Certainly it's a possibility but if it actually happened there must be video and police reports right? There must be some evidence somewhere.

Or have we simply drunk the truthiness koolaid of the left?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:14 AM (wqVD1)

I lived in NJ on 911. All the local police as far south as Edison NJ rushed into the city to try and dig out their brothers

they were so frantic and busy they had very little time for anything else

had the good people of NJ violently repressed these muslim celebrants I am sure there would have been police reports

as it was we were all glued to our TVS, trying to reach loved ones, and figure out who died

not to mention cell phones didnt work because the cell towers were on top of the towers. I could call virginia on my cell but I couldnt call NY or NJ. Had to use a landline for that

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:22 AM (zOTsN)

355 Yes, apparently the standard really is "video or it didn't happen" now.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor
----------------

Unless it is a Tea Party rally.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 12:22 AM (9mTYi)

356 "The MSM spiking replays of the video of the towers, or more specifically
people, going down. Never happened because there was no need for it."

The networks aired incredibly frightening footage shot from street level right beneath the collapsing towers, looking up as the upper floors began to pancake downward, where the camera crews had to run for their lives or be crushed beneath wreckage.

Aired that footage precisely once, on that one day, and then stuffed it in the far ass end of the video vaults behind 1970s _Battle Of The Network Stars_ tapes.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 03, 2015 12:22 AM (noWW6)

357 Is there footage of victims jumping to their deaths from the WTC?
---
of course there is, showtime just used some of those clips for their CIA spymasters (interview thing with all living former cia chiefs) that aired last week. Course the MSM never shows it cause god forbid people actually see the horrors of that day. 20 years from now some kid on the internet will be saying "Nobody jumped... show me the video", and it'll probably be lost to time as it almost never gets shown.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:22 AM (MbrzC)

358 Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:19 AM (oKE6c)

He's being facetious.'

And I am dying over your "it" comment.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:22 AM (RuxkS)

359 Posted by: Kaspar Gutman>>>

That is the story of America.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:23 AM (wHX4r)

360 There were several news reports of Muslims celebrating on rooftops in New Jersey as well but I suppose you have to have video or its just false?

Very likely footage on local TV stations back then but if the tape even exists any longer its been memory holed.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:23 AM (39g3+)

361 The real reason the religion of peace leaves us Hillbillys alone...

https://youtu.be/_j1-xQA_ufE

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 12:24 AM (AgTww)

362 Why has Ace not put up a flaming skull yet??

Posted by: Island stalker at December 03, 2015 12:24 AM (HGPlp)

363 Why has Ace not put up a flaming skull yet??

Posted by: Island stalker

For what?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 12:25 AM (9YDUz)

364 Alright. Once again they're running this "Pledge of Allegiance to Girlhood " ad on tv. Because girls have it so rough in the United States of America that they have to all band together and spew some stupid hot air to collectively prop up their poor little selves. Gawd, I hate it.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 03, 2015 12:25 AM (kGrwF)

365 US50 from Clarksburg to Parkersburg is some damn pretty country.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at December 03, 2015 12:25 AM (hy5nE)

366 Hillary ran an ad that called first black president Obama a "boy" recently. At least, that's what the press would scream if a Republican candidate had run it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:26 AM (39g3+)

367 Trump was 100% right that it was reported that there were muslims dancing and celebrating on rooftops in NJ on 9/11. Now, I don't know if he remembers the video correctly or if he is conflating it with Palestine, but at this point it doesn't matter. The reports exist. He wasn't lying. The best you can hang around his neck now is that he may have misremembered the images accompanying a story from 15 years ago. And that is so petty an issue it wouldn't deserve a response from a politician NOT named Donald Trump.
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:17 AM (Kqit+)

Then I take this as an admission on your part that what Trump said was incorrect. I don't think he was lying - I think he just misremembered the details of what he saw. Not a big deal in itself.

But this actually isn't the petty thing you make it out to be. The fact that Trump can't even acknowledge the possibility that he may have mistaken in what he said - even when it's obvious that he was - is disturbing. And the fact that he (and his fans) was willing to go to mattresses over such a minor detail does not bode well for a Trump presidency.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:27 AM (wqVD1)

368

they do not even show the film footage of the jumpers in the 911 museum in NYC

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:27 AM (zOTsN)

369 Goodnight, beloved Horde. Don't let the lying liars get you down!

Posted by: Emmie at December 03, 2015 12:28 AM (xHPCo)

370
But this actually isn't the petty thing you make it out to be. The fact that Trump can't even acknowledge the possibility that he may have mistaken in what he said - even when it's obvious that he was - is disturbing. And the fact that he (and his fans) was willing to go to mattresses over such a minor detail does not bode well for a Trump presidency.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:27 AM (wqVD1)

Hilarious.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:28 AM (zt+N6)

371 Wow. Speaking of those Jersey Apartments...That wapo article is full of very non pc information such as:

Over the weekend, authorities raided a small apartment building in Jersey City to search an apartment rented by two men who were detained in Texas on Wednesday, on possible immigration violations. Mohammed Jaweed Azmath, 47, and Ayub Ali Khan, 51, both from India, were taken into custody Wednesday on an Amtrak train in Texas, carrying $5,000 in cash, hair dye and box cutter knives -- weapons said to have been used by the hijackers. During the raids in Jersey City, authorities detained a third man, Abdoul Salam Achou, 37, whose visa application allegedly expired on Sept. 1.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:28 AM (Kqit+)

372 So, to sum up what I have seen here tonight:

Trump may (or may not) have overstated his case, and Maet wants Trump to recant.

Maet absolutely has overstated his case, and he's got no intention of recanting, himself.

All I'll say is that if the election was tomorrow, and my choices were Trump and Maet, I'd vote Trump.

Nini, bearfuckers :^)

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 03, 2015 12:28 AM (6FqZa)

373 "
Then I take this as an admission on your part that what Trump said was incorrect. "

No. I am saying that I do not have any evidence either way. And it is a petty thing. And I'm not a Trump supporter (Team Cruz).

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:30 AM (Kqit+)

374 The fact that Trump can't even acknowledge the possibility that he may have mistaken in what he said - even when it's obvious that he was - is disturbing.

I agree its a character flaw in the man that he simply will never admit he was wrong or apologize - or at least, almost never, he does sort of, sometimes, depending on his whim.

For now, its refreshing and pleasing to see him say FYNQ to the press no matter what they bring up against him. After all, we've been begging for someone to do just that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:30 AM (39g3+)

375 360 There were several news reports of Muslims celebrating on rooftops in New Jersey as well but I suppose you have to have video or its just false?
Very likely footage on local TV stations back then but if the tape even exists any longer its been memory holed.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:23 AM (39g3+)

People had VCRs and Tivos back then. Plus cameras.

If you assert that such an event happened, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some kind of evidence of its existence beyond mere reports.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:31 AM (wqVD1)

376 Trump speaks in hyperbole. It's his native language and the only one he knows.

No one should be surprised by this at this late date.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 12:31 AM (9YDUz)

377 363-

Drudge has in his headline that Farook the Asslifter was a "Devout Muslim"

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at December 03, 2015 12:31 AM (hy5nE)

378

They were in the mezzanine full of smoke, the Tower. The fireman priest, others and a newsman walking talking, thump-thump thump-thump. "What's that thumping" he says, "bodies" came the reply.
Jumpers hitting the awning it was.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 12:32 AM (4ihv2)

379
Yes, apparently the standard really is "video or it didn't happen" now.Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:21 AM (39g3+)
---------
Hmmm. I wonder if the left will institute this policy with regards to rape accusations. Or claims by black radicalsthat someone non-black called them n****r.
That said, I believe that Trump mixed up seeing the images of the Palis dancing in the street with reports on New Jersey.

Posted by: Darth Randall at December 03, 2015 12:32 AM (KlVdw)

380 Every proclamation Obama makes is inaccurate.

Show me how he's suffered for a second because of this character flaw.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 12:32 AM (9YDUz)

381 Well now, I'd vote Maet over Trump all day long, as early and as often as I could, and I'm a Cruzette, but it bothers me not one iota that Trump says what was reported all over the news in the days following September 11th.

And I wouldn't expect the police to go running over there to check it out. They were rather busy that week, those that were still living, anyway.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:33 AM (RuxkS)

382 I clearly remember hearing about Muslims cheering the 9/11 strikes. And now it may seem odd there is no video. But then not so much without cell phones with cameras that take video.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:33 AM (wHX4r)

383 No. I am saying that I do not have any evidence either way. And it is a petty thing. And I'm not a Trump supporter (Team Cruz).
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:30 AM (Kqit+)

Trump made an assertion and the onus is on him to produce some evidence that it's true. He and his supporters have failed to do so thus far which strongly suggests that it was actually false.

Is there any evidence that could be shown to you that would convince you that Trump was wrong?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:34 AM (wqVD1)

384 Well not to be an A-hole but can anyone prove the muzzies in NJ didn't celebrate 9/11?

I'm a huge history buff, I was way sad when I realized that all the history I read did not point out how many wars between The West and Islam there actually were.

Sure there were intra-european wars but a whole lot of conflict on the Christendom frontiers....

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:34 AM (QelBn)

385 People had VCRs and Tivos back then. Plus cameras.

If you assert that such an event happened, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some kind of evidence of its existence beyond mere reports.

Posted by: Maetenloch

I dunno about TIVO. Dont think so. In addition all our local channels were taken over by the national networks for round the clock coverage. Local coverage was very scant. National coverage was literally 24/7. The only channel not doing that was Nickleodian

so the NBC affiliate was nothing but Katie Couric etc. All national nearly all the time

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:34 AM (zOTsN)

386 Jeez, according to CNN we have mass shootings every day whereas the rest of the world is a veritable utopia.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 03, 2015 12:35 AM (FkBIv)

387 Reports from 2001 are no good to determine if there were muslims in New Jersey celebrating. However reports from today by a media with a definite agenda are absolutely sacrosanct.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:35 AM (zt+N6)

388 " I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some kind of evidence of its existence beyond mere reports."

What is the evidence for your position that it did not happen?

We have articles from WaPo and the local news station saying "hey this thing happened!" and you have...what a nagging feeling that there should be video?

That's not enough to boldly proclaim that it didn't happen.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:35 AM (Z/8dZ)

389 If you assert that such an event happened, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some kind of evidence of its existence beyond mere reports.

Maybe no videos are available. Does that mean it is all lies? Or is your standard literally "pics or it didn't happen" for this?

With all the news reports and eyewitness testimony of residents, I am surprised you'd be so skeptical. Why would you assume its all lies? Trump overstated - as he always does - the numbers, but there's no valid reason to doubt that it happened.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:36 AM (39g3+)

390 I had nearly dead iPad Air & received new iPad Air 2 Monday that I bought on thanksgiving from Target. I was waiting for new case before I set up. It came with IOS 9.0.2 & I had backed up knowing it would be here today. I had to use backup from September & I keep detailed notes & they were from 2.5 months ago.
It updated down to IOS 9.0.1 & I erased data & managed to restore backup from late today.

It didn't include Mercury Browser & I'm pretty sure this is wrong one.

Please ignore me I'm testing it.

Posted by: Carol at December 03, 2015 12:36 AM (sj3Ax)

391 The fact that Trump can't even acknowledge the possibility that he may
have mistaken in what he said - even when it's obvious that he was - is
disturbing.

Are you acknowledging the possibility that you are mistaken?

And consider the palpably erroneous misstatements our dusky Messiah has made, repeatedly, on too many occasions to cite. I think that even if Trump were mistaken, he wasn't far off base. LOTS of Muslims worldwide celebrated - we know that - and it reasonable to presume that some in the US did as well.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:36 AM (oKE6c)

392 >>>People had VCRs and Tivos back then. Plus cameras.
If
you assert that such an event happened, I don't think it's unreasonable
to ask for some kind of evidence of its existence beyond mere reports.Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:31 AM (wqVD1)<<<

A VCR camera was about 8"x4"x15" and weighed pounds, there were no cell phone video or handy cam. It's entirely reasonable that there is no video.

Giuliani said that his police received and made calls on the reporting of Muslim celebrations. WTF more do you want as proof?

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 12:37 AM (4ihv2)

393 All I'll say is that if the election was tomorrow, and my choices were Trump and Maet, I'd vote Trump.

Well, if Maet were elected, would Trump do a Yoko Ono ONT ???

Posted by: Adriane the Political Critic ... at December 03, 2015 12:37 AM (oZKRQ)

394 380 Every proclamation Obama makes is inaccurate.
Show me how he's suffered for a second because of this character flaw.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 12:32 AM (9YDUz)

So now you're making the case for shameless bullshit and lying in public?

I guess we're simply beyond any principles now and it'll all about tactics and power and winning.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:37 AM (wqVD1)

395

I mean did you guys have regular TV programming in the rest of the country?

cause we sure as hell didn't

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:37 AM (zOTsN)

396 I don't think TIVO was really a thing in 2001. I had my first baby in 2005 and the hospital across town was doing this huge mother's day promotion and giving away free TIVOs to everyone who delivered and I remember it being a really, really big deal.

And even if it were, does anyone anywhere still own a TIVO from 2001? And if by some miracle they do, do they still have that random bit of footage that would be in no way meaningful except for this exact conversation?

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:38 AM (Z/8dZ)

397 And the fact that he (and his fans) was willing to go to mattresses over such a minor detail does not bode well for a Trump presidency.
----
Mostly lurking this thread but it sure seemed like the 'fans' were simply countering your false statement that there were no celebrations.

Fan or not, bottom line is yet again a much ado about nothing created by the MSM where in the end Trump was shown to be more right then wrong, and the media again embarrassed itself.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:38 AM (MbrzC)

398 Trump made an assertion and the onus is on him to produce some evidence that it's true.

He did, immediately after, with a news report from the Washington Post, dude. And other people have noted subsequently other reports from different sources. Seriously. It has been supported with news reports.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:38 AM (39g3+)

399 G'night, Horde!

Montani Semper Liberi, and God Bless Texas and the United States.

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 03, 2015 12:38 AM (lutOX)

400 Trump made an assertion and the onus is on him to produce some evidence
that it's true. He and his supporters have failed to do so thus far
which strongly suggests that it was actually false.

By this standard al-Khalidi never spoke before Obama in LA.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:39 AM (oKE6c)

401 And consider the palpably erroneous misstatements our dusky Messiah has made, repeatedly, on too many occasions to cite. I think that even if Trump were mistaken, he wasn't far off base. LOTS of Muslims worldwide celebrated - we know that - and it reasonable to presume that some in the US did as well.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:36 AM (oKE6c)

Okay so truthiness is all that matter now.

I guess I missed that meeting but I think I understand the new rules now.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:39 AM (wqVD1)

402 does anyone anywhere still own a TIVO from 2001?
---

I have one from 2003 in the garage (why I've not thrown it out I don't know), but it doesn't boot up does that count?

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:39 AM (MbrzC)

403 #87

More importantly, we'd broken the Japanese encryption and were monitoring much of their communications. (Recall the Yamamoto assassination that this made possible.) The Japanese leadership genuinely believed they had a small army of saboteurs ready to go and compared to all of their other activities it seems improbable that this was merely faith in the command of the Emperor. I strongly believe several such were caught up in the internment and never broke cover. There were a few deaths in the camps that were suspected to be gang conflicts but may also have been exposed spies killed by fellow Japanese internees who felt they'd be dishonored if the truth came out.

The rest likely went to their graves without ever divulging their secret.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 12:40 AM (IdCqF)

404 So, I see shit hit the fan today

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 12:40 AM (R5HRU)

405 I sure as hell didnt have TIVO

we had video tapes which I played incessantly so my kids would freak out from the 24/7 coverage on all the other channels including cable

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:40 AM (zOTsN)

406 Did he say that it was video? Or did he say "I saw" because a lot of people report seeing it on that day, not just him.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:18 AM (39g3+)

Dude, he said he saw it on Blu-ray.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 03, 2015 12:40 AM (T78UI)

407 I don't think Trump is confusing the NJ Muzzies with the Palis, because those Pali videos were very obviously shot in a third world shit hole.

I do think he thinks he saw a video. And there were multiple news reports about the celebrations.

I agree that if there was a video, it should be readily available, but it's weird to me that the Trump haters are so freaked out about it.

And I am not a Trumpette by any stretch, other than liking that he's got balls.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:40 AM (RuxkS)

408 It has been supported with news reports.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:38 AM (39g3+)
---
Pretty clear this person doesn't care.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (MbrzC)

409 My Pillow commercial!

Posted by: rokshox at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (Ap82b)

410 China and sparrows: Another triumph of the central planning Tom Friedman and other bien pensant so admire.

Posted by: Socratease at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (2GbWn)

411 Maet, every camera in the world was down in Manhattan that day. Did they celebrate in NJ? There were reports that there were and eight arrests were made. Did Trump see thousands and thousands celebrating in NJ? No. In the West Bank and Gaza, yes.
Trump will not back down. He never does. It's Trump.
By the same token, Obama will not back down that radical Islamists are not the threat, only that Gorebull Enwarmening is. And he will not back down either. It's Obama.

Posted by: Old Blue at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (9iR5/)

412 In Texas it was all national 9/11 programming for several days.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (Z/8dZ)

413 So again just to make sure everyone is clear. Video and news reports from 2001 are not valid about events that happened in 2001. However video and news reports today by an agenda driven media are absolutely valid.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (zt+N6)

414 He did, immediately after, with a news report from the Washington Post, dude. And other people have noted subsequently other reports from different sources. Seriously. It has been supported with news reports.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:38 AM (39g3+)

Okay then where is the fucking video of the thousand of Muslims celebrating in NJ that he claims to have seen?

I hate to have be a hard ass on this but I also hate to be bullshitted.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (wqVD1)

415 I guess we're simply beyond any principles now and it'll all about tactics and power and winning.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:37 AM (wqVD1)

I think that that's unfair. Trump's assertion may or may not be erroneous on narrow factual grounds - e.g., exactly how many celebrants there were, etc. - but as indicated above, Muslims around the world DID celebrate - agreed? - and it defies logic to assert that NO Muslims here celebrated. So now we're arguing about numbers.
Hell, I bet there were white American-born leftists who celebrated.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (oKE6c)

416 I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything.

Posted by: Bart Mohammed Simpson at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (FkBIv)

417 If Trumps given to hyperbole, which many seem willing to admit, then it's time to look elsewhere for a nom, I've got no interest in aping the fake but accurate schtick of the left.

Posted by: All Teh Meh at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (iiDhh)

418 Hey Halfrican!

Shit to spare today, no doubt.

Got any news to share, by any chance?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (RuxkS)

419 The Falling Man - Esquire Story about the picture

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (AgTww)

420 #396

TiVo and ReplayTV both came to market in 1999. The TiVo brand was already being referenced in sitcoms by 9/11, with the most common gag being based on the suggested shows feature. "My TiVo thinks I'm gay!"

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 12:43 AM (IdCqF)

421 Okay then where is the fucking video of the thousand of Muslims celebrating in NJ that he claims to have seen?

I hate to have be a hard ass on this but I also hate to be bullshitted.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:41 AM (wqVD1)

What size is the forklift you use to move the goalposts?

Who has declared that Trump is right in that 1000s in New Jersey has celebrated? Why do you refuse to admit that there is evidence of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating?

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:44 AM (zt+N6)

422 OT but off on a tangent.

Would Trump be anything close the the fucked up Obama Admin.

I say no only because Trump seem to like/love America

where the barky hates it

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:44 AM (QelBn)

423 I spent 4 afternoons her Friday & Monday - today. I love it here & that's why I will not let myself open blog during rose season.

It's like an addiction.

I see my && are here & I may have correct browser but my bookmarks aren't the same.

Good Night.

Posted by: Carol at December 03, 2015 12:45 AM (sj3Ax)

424
Old Blue @ 193 - interesting, I knew someone else whose mother grew up in Santa Barbara and was there, on their ranch up near El Capitan, when the Japanese I-boat (sub) shelled the oil pier at Ellwood, setting off the "panic of '42" - February 1942. (this incident also had interesting implications for rushed coastal artillery efforts in San Diego, San Pedro, and San Francisco)

She said the sheriff's dept. made the rounds, making sure everyone had shotgun ammo and to black out their windows at night. I think some of the men-folk set up group sentry rotations at a few key road crossings.

A restaurant (The Timbers), now closed, has some of the wood from the pier as part of its building - maybe the doors? It's located right on the 101 just north of Goleta.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 12:45 AM (QDnY+)

425 More "religion is so stupid" from the left:

Markos Moulitsas says: "How many dead people did those thoughts and prayers bring back to the (sic) life?"

Maybe we should pray for Markos to experience a "road to Damascus" style epiphany, along with many of his hard-hearted leftist pals.

Posted by: elaine at December 03, 2015 12:45 AM (Y0Piu)

426 Hell, I bet there were white American-born leftists who celebrated.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (oKE6c)

There certainly was a black pastor in Chicago celebrating.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:45 AM (zt+N6)

427 Okay then where is the fucking video of the thousand of Muslims celebrating in NJ that he claims to have seen?

You seem to only care about THIS particular thing, and I'm wondering why. Is it just defensiveness? I mean this is hardly the first outrageous or semi-true thing Trump has said, why this particular topic?

In any case: you said no support, but there was. You said he didn't show evidence, and he did. Everyone here has already said "he overstated and exaggerated" so I'm not really sure what it is you're looking for?

The Japanese leadership genuinely believed they had a small army of saboteurs ready to go and compared to all of their other activities it seems improbable that this was merely faith in the command of the Emperor. I strongly believe several such were caught up in the internment and never broke cover.

Several episodes of espionage took place from the Japanese Embassy before the internment, and one guy actually committed suicide when he found out he was going to be captured. There was reason to fear sabotage, but then, the Germans were doing it too - and continued to, after the US got involved in the war - but they weren't rounded up and tossed in camps.

Mostly because it was pretty easy to identify Japanese (or at least, anyone who was "Oriental" at the time, more than a few non-Japanese got interned as well) and not so much Germans.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:46 AM (39g3+)

428 The news report at the time say that the number of celebrating muslims was "swarms"

I do not know how to measure a "swarm" but I assume it to be a sufficiently large number as to take up the majority of a camera field.

Considering it took 2 weeks to dig up that report, it is possible that there were other reports that included such footage.

Regardless, and this is important, there is sufficient evidence from multiple news reports from the day, to at the very least make it impossible to conclusively say that muslims were *not* celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:46 AM (Z/8dZ)

429 Maet,

You seem to want ironclad unequivocal evidence that Donald Trump was correct.

How about if it was you? Where were you on October 22, 1989? What evidence do you have that you were not in St. Joseph MN.; and did not kidnap, rape, and kill Jacob Wetterling? What, we only have your word? Is there video tape of you at home? Paperwork and contemporaneous receipts do not count. After all, that is YOUR standard.

Why are you lying about not kidnapping Jacob? Where is your proof? What No video? You are obviously lying.

I don't like Donald Trump, but I will vote for him over all the Democrat and most of the Republican field. But I do cut him some slack.

Posted by: rd at December 03, 2015 12:46 AM (Ltj2h)

430 Old Blue @ 193 - interesting, I knew someone else whose mother grew up in Santa Barbara and was there, on their ranch up near El Capitan, when the Japanese I-boat (sub) shelled the oil pier at Ellwood, setting off the "panic of '42" - February 1942. (this incident also had interesting implications for rushed coastal artillery efforts in San Diego, San Pedro, and San Francisco)

She said the sheriff's dept. made the rounds, making sure everyone had shotgun ammo and to black out their windows at night. I think some of the men-folk set up group sentry rotations at a few key road crossings.

A restaurant (The Timbers), now closed, has some of the wood from the pier as part of its building - maybe the doors? It's located right on the 101 just north of Goleta.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 12:45 AM (QDnY+)

The remains of old gun emplacements are visible to this day on cliffs north of San Diego.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:47 AM (oKE6c)

431 oh

and Gavin McInnis needs to find #TeamRippetoe.

Life is hard walking around at 145 pounds..........

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 12:47 AM (QelBn)

432 Well, Maygun is telling us that the Joint Terrorism Task Force is now coming in, and saying that pretty much nails it, it's terrorism.

Also, before that Catherine Herridge was saying the investigators were all befuddled as this thing was so crazy it wasn't fitting in any neat little boxes.

Also, now saying there were only two suspects, not three, involved, and they two dead Muzzies are likely Sayed Farooq and his wife.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 12:47 AM (dvuhZ)

433 I guess we're simply beyond any principles now and it'll all about tactics and power and winning.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:37 AM (wqVD1)

Defending muzzies is no principle of mine. I don't care if Trump saw what he said or if he's confusing Palis handing out candy on 9/11 (which the media immediately quashed). The fact is that 9/11 was a watershed moment for muzzies in America. Period. Muzzies were relatively quiet ... until 9/11. All of a sudden muzzies started showing up all over the place, building mosques everywhere and being promoted through all of the government apparati.

There is no question that muzzies in America loved 9/11 and supported it. If they hadn't then you would have seen them protesting against it and doing hard work to stop muzzie insanity and anti-Westernism. But you don't see that. All you ever see are muzies complaining about being harmed by the fact that muzzies blow everything up they can get near and how America is so horrible to the poor, widdle muzzies.

I don't care if Trump is misremembering muzzie celebrations - which certainly occurred all over on 9/11 and have only gotten worse, since. My priniciple has to do with fighting off muzzie threats against the West and putting an end to the idiocy of importing muzzies here. I mean, that has to be the dumbest thing anyone has ever come up with.

You seem to have an issue with Trump. I don't know why. It doesn't bother me - it's your choice - but it's a bit odd and you will find yourself making strange bedfellows over it.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 12:47 AM (zc3Db)

434 Mostly because it was pretty easy to identify Japanese

Exactly.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:47 AM (RuxkS)

435 Took delivery of 840 rounds of .223 ball today, just in time to beat the inevitable post-jihad rush. And next year California will vote on state-wide registration of all ammo sales, an idea that was a total failure when it was applied across the nation in '68 and has been a failure for every local authority that has tried it. You all know what endlessly repeating the same acts and expecting different results indicates, right?

Posted by: Socratease at December 03, 2015 12:47 AM (2GbWn)

436 89 With all the news reports and eyewitness testimony of residents, I am surprised you'd be so skeptical. Why would you assume its all lies?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:36 AM

Nobody has mentioned Rudy Giuliani confirmed it happened, while on a morning show, gems I think?

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 12:48 AM (Vm8WO)

437 I think that that's unfair. Trump's assertion may or may not be erroneous on narrow factual grounds - e.g., exactly how many celebrants there were, etc. - but as indicated above, Muslims around the world DID celebrate - agreed? - and it defies logic to assert that NO Muslims here celebrated. So now we're arguing about numbers.
Hell, I bet there were white American-born leftists who celebrated.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (oKE6c)

NO. NO. NO.

Either what he said is true or it is false. Truth and falsity still matter to me. I care and I want to know what the actual veracity is. The fact that so many people simply cannot contemplate the likelihood that Trump was simply wrong in what he said makes me feel like I'm being gaslighted.

I am not ready to drink the new truthiness koolaid without a fight.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:48 AM (wqVD1)

438 "Markos Moulitsas says: "How many dead people did those thoughts and prayers bring back to the (sic) life?"

Prayers for their souls may ease their way to heaven so...14?

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:48 AM (Z/8dZ)

439 Just reported that there is a planned Parenthood clinic 1.65 miles from the grassy knoll

Posted by: RIK at December 03, 2015 12:48 AM (MEG2+)

440 OK wiki says TIVO was first shown at a trade show in 1999 and wasn't sold until sometime in 2000.

I doubt very much TIVO was widespread in 2001

I lived in an upscale neighborhood in NJ and I can tell you it was not.

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:49 AM (zOTsN)

441 I guess I missed that meeting but I think I understand the new rules now.
----------
Sadly, the truth was thrown out very long ago, by both sides. The rules changed long ago to benefit a specific group of people. No matter what your political stripe, we've been lied to for a long time. And we are not in that specific group.

Posted by: Old Blue at December 03, 2015 12:49 AM (9iR5/)

442 This is I cab mobile browser that crashed on my less than 2 year old iPad Air. Testing to see if it crashes too.

Posted by: Carol at December 03, 2015 12:49 AM (sj3Ax)

443 I see CAIR has assured us that this should not to be blamed on Islam.

Up next! "No backlash!"

I expect James Taylor to visit San Bernadino. Because 'healing'.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 12:50 AM (9mTYi)

444 Maet,

Do you now accept that Muslims in New Jersey celebrated on 9-11?

Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 12:50 AM (MQEz6)

445 Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (RuxkS)

Hey Tammy. Yeah it seems so.

Nope, ring bought, family issues stopped me from going through with it. I posted about those issues on the ONT a few weeks ago. My aunt was actively dying, put on hospice the whole nine.

Now she's on a new drug that's just been recently released and off of hospice so that's awesome.

Probably gonna do the deed in weeks.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 12:50 AM (R5HRU)

446 The fact that so many people simply cannot contemplate the likelihood that Trump was simply wrong in what he said makes me feel like I'm being gaslighted.

What other and absolute bullshit Maet. Look at what people are saying. I've said it several times TRUMP WAS WRONG ABOUT 1000'S CELEBRATING IN NEW JERSEY. There can you read it?

TRUMP WAS WRONG ABOUT 1000'S CELEBRATING IN NEW JERSEY

TRUMP WAS WRONG ABOUT 1000'S CELEBRATING IN NEW JERSEY

TRUMP WAS WRONG ABOUT 1000'S CELEBRATING IN NEW JERSEY

There that should be very clear. Now will you acknowledge the reports that there were Muslims that did celebrate in New Jersey? You don't have to agree with Trump to look and see that there is plenty of evidence that they were.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:51 AM (zt+N6)

447 You know what I am sick and fucking tired of having to be the better man. So fucking what Trump has no video proof of Muslims celebrating 9/11? I see no video proof of black lives matter, Grandma is getting pushed off a cliff by republicans, some illegal immigrant got slapped by a border guard.. Fuck it I wont play this give the other team the win for honor anymore.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:51 AM (wHX4r)

448 Maet does not want us aping the left, blindly adhering to and defending every word our Most Exalted utters, regardless of whether it may or may or be true. I get that.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:51 AM (RuxkS)

449 "I am not ready to drink the new truthiness koolaid without a fight."

Then you should immediately change the link because there is overwhelming doubt that it is true.

There is solid evidence that muslims in New Jersey were celebrating on 9/11. That is all I ever claimed to know definitively and all that I am asking you to buy into.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (Z/8dZ)

450 Religious leader at CAIR presser in Anaheim urges: "do not implicate Islam or Muslims"

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (9mTYi)

451 #392

The Sony Handycam line of HI8 video cameras launched in 1985. The DV Cam models started in 1995. Small convenient video cameras were widely available on 9/11. Not as ubiquitous as they be when feature phones gained the capability but more than common enough for someone to have been gathering footage that day.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (IdCqF)

452 The fact that so many people simply cannot contemplate the likelihood that Trump was simply wrong in what he said makes me feel like I'm being gaslighted.

It concerns me that you keep insisting it never happened and he was wrong even though you've been informed otherwise. Maybe its time to take a break and go to bed?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (39g3+)

453 Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:51 AM (wHX4r)

Absolutely agree, but we don't have to lower ourselves to their standard. I think that's all Maet is saying.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (RuxkS)

454 The Falling Man - Esquire Story about the picture

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 12:42 AM (AgTww)

That was interesting - and, frankly, that reporter was a real asshole for making up the idea that he knew who the falling man was and telling the guy's family that it was him , when the reporter didn't know jack shit about it.

But it took years until anyone would even touch anything about those pictures. They even edited some of the footage of falling bodies out of the French brother team's documentary, IIRC. (I'm not definite about that last piece but I seem to remember something along those lines).

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (zc3Db)

455 Popcorn popping.

Posted by: Said No One at December 03, 2015 12:53 AM (2x3L+)

456 Mike Hammer,
You're still accidentally banned?
Email Pixy at help,mudlims.nu

He saved me s few days after I emailed him.

Posted by: Carol at December 03, 2015 12:53 AM (sj3Ax)

457 People had VCRs and Tivos back then. Plus cameras.

If you assert that such an event happened, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some kind of evidence of its existence beyond mere reports.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:31 AM (wqVD1)

Yes they did. Here is video you requested of a contemporary newscast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3auKMHkZJnQ

Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 12:53 AM (N8hFs)

458 444 Maet,
Do you now accept that Muslims in New Jersey celebrated on 9-11?
Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 12:50 AM (MQEz6)

No. I'm open to the possibility but I would like to see some kind of tangible evidence that it actually happened before I will accept it as proven. I'm crazy like that.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:53 AM (wqVD1)

459 Suspect's brother-in-law: "I have no idea, no idea why would he do that? Why would he do something like that?"

*scratches head*
*recalls Charlie Rose asking Rubio why Hillary would lie*

No, no, it just doesn't make sense.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 12:54 AM (9mTYi)

460 There was reason to fear sabotage, but then, the
Germans were doing it too - and continued to, after the US got involved
in the war - but they weren't rounded up and tossed in camps.

Mostly because it was pretty easy to identify Japanese (or at least,
anyone who was "Oriental" at the time, more than a few non-Japanese got
interned as well) and not so much Germans.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:46 AM (39g3+)
Actually, some Americans of German and Italian descent, along with German and Italian nationals, WERE interned (IIRC). It wasn't necessarily a matter of appearance; the most common ethnicity in the US is German-Irish (again IIRC), so interning everyone of German descent would have involved interning half of the country, i.e., a logistical impossibility. Similarly, Japanese in Hawaii were not interned, for the same reason.

Btw, Japanese immigrants were often merely economic migrants, and were more Japanese than American. Many came here merely to work. It is not unknown even today for Japanese parents in Hawaii to send their kids to Japan for schooling. I expect that that was true in California as well.

More to the point, how many disloyal Japanese would it take along coastal California to cause a problem? How many ISIS members would it take among Syrian "refugees" to cause a problem?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:54 AM (oKE6c)

461 448 Maet does not want us aping the left, blindly adhering to and defending every word our Most Exalted utters, regardless of whether it may or may or be true. I get that.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:51 AM (RuxkS)

This.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:54 AM (wqVD1)

462 Sorry, off the stupid sock

Posted by: L, Elle at December 03, 2015 12:54 AM (2x3L+)

463 Kos is a onesie packing choad who doesn't comprehend that the prayers are for the wounded, the families of those hurt, the people trying to catch the bad guys, and for the nation to heal and stop having these events.

Events which seem to be happening with greater and greater frequency under President Obama.

I know what the left is trying to do here though. they want to say "prayers are sh*t, we need gun bans to take real action!" They want people to stop being satisfied with prayers and concern and start shifting the mood toward gun control.

Well, ain't happening.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:54 AM (39g3+)

464 The shooting suspect reportedly told police "no more baby parts" during his arrest, which Planned Parenthood officials say indicates that the attacks were triggered by the videos.

No. This proves that Planned Parenthood's efforts to harvest fetal organs lead to the attack.
Their "attack the messenger" tactics don't excuse them from the backlash for a practice that can only be described as barbaric.
Planned Parenthood has apologized for some aspects of the program, so it can't be cast as nonexistent or debunked.

Posted by: Hannibal Lecter at December 03, 2015 12:54 AM (e8kgV)

465 No. I'm open to the possibility but I would like to see some kind of tangible evidence that it actually happened before I will accept it as proven.

So eyewitness accounts, the mayor of New York City's word, and several newspapers stating it happened aren't tangible evidence? It really is "pics or it didn't happen" for you? Seriously?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:55 AM (39g3+)

466 "I knew someone else whose mother grew up in Santa Barbara and was there,
on their ranch up near El Capitan, when the Japanese I-boat (sub)
shelled the oil pier at Ellwood, setting off the 'panic of '42' -
February 1942. (this incident also had interesting implications for
rushed coastal artillery efforts in San Diego, San Pedro, and San
Francisco)"

If the IJN had been on their game, they could have wreaked utter panicked havoc with small inflatable boat commando landing parties through the Golden Gate on a late night with heavy fog.

The San Francisco and Oakland docks, Alameda, Hunters' Point, Concord Naval Weapons Station, Mare Island, Moffett Field... lots of easy waterborne targets.

In the SF area, there are coastal WWII bunker complexes that later became Cold War emplacements for Nike-Ajax nuclear SAM launchers. One survives in Marin County with curated tours.

"A restaurant (The Timbers), now closed, has some
of the wood from the pier as part of its building - maybe the doors?
It's located right on the 101 just north of Goleta."

Jeepers. I am not a SoCal type, but I did not recall there being very much north of Goleta. Even today, the lights thin out pretty quickly.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 03, 2015 12:56 AM (noWW6)

467 choad. Is that safe to Google?

Christopher doesn't generally indulge in extreme vulgarity, so surely it's safe...

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:56 AM (RuxkS)

468 Welp, Fox just confirmed the names.

I believe we are at a tipping point people.

I am glad I work tomorrow, have to get up early, and only have wine handy. Otherwise I'd be getting wasted.

Time to get strong emotionally, spiritually and physically. Shit just got real.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (R5HRU)

469 It concerns me that you keep insisting it never happened and he was wrong even though you've been informed otherwise. Maybe its time to take a break and go to bed?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (39g3+)

I've been informed of a lot of things. But thus far no one has been able to produce any video showing what Trump claims he saw. So I'm going with it never happened as Trump stated until someone can show that it did.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (wqVD1)

470 I don't think Trump is confusing the NJ Muzzies with the Palis, because those Pali videos were very obviously shot in a third world shit hole.

So....have you been to Jersey City?

Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (N8hFs)

471 Jeepers. I am not a SoCal type, but I did not recall there being very much north of Goleta. Even today, the lights thin out pretty quickly.
Posted by: torquewrench at December 03, 2015 12:56 AM (noWW6)

The remains of gun emplacements are visible to this day on the cliffs at La Jolla.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (oKE6c)

472 The Sony Handycam line of HI8 video cameras launched in 1985. The DV Cam models started in 1995. Small convenient video cameras were widely available on 9/11. Not as ubiquitous as they be when feature phones gained the capability but more than common enough for someone to have been gathering footage that day.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 12:52 AM (IdCqF)

sure we had a cam corder. And the very last thing I would have done on 911 would be to go into the street and film celebrating muslims after they had just murdered thousands of my neighbors

perhaps you dont know but they didnt know if another wave was coming

they told us to stay inside. They were worried about chemical weapons and dirty bombs. They closed all the bridges and tunnels between NY and NJ

we were under attack. I was trying to figure out if my husband was dead. I wasnt filmiing celebrating muslims

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (zOTsN)

473 The Sony Handycam line of HI8 video cameras launched in 1985. The DV Cam
models started in 1995. Small convenient video cameras were widely
available on 9/11. Not as ubiquitous as they be when feature phones
gained the capability but more than common enough for someone to have
been gathering footage that day.>>>

The Klan had 8MM available too but not too much footage of theeir meetings. Available and ubiquitous are 2 different things.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (wHX4r)

474 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:55 AM (39g3+)

Although the header doesn't support it, I think Maet's main gripe is that Trump says he saw a video and that no one can come up with any such video.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:58 AM (RuxkS)

475 440 OK wiki says TIVO was first shown at a trade show in 1999 and wasn't sold until sometime in 2000.
I doubt very much TIVO was widespread in 2001
I lived in an upscale neighborhood in NJ and I can tell you it was not.
Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 12:49 AM (zOTsN)

I had a Tivo in 2002. They were around in 2001 but not so common.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:58 AM (wqVD1)

476 I give up for tonight. Now we're back to Tayeep bin Ardogan as being a real suspect, the dead one, and Sayed Farooq may be a third one still alive.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 12:58 AM (dvuhZ)

477 Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (wqVD1)

Maet - Guliani confirmed it happened. Not thousands, but it did happen.

What say you?

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 12:58 AM (R5HRU)

478 I've been informed of a lot of things. But thus far no one has been able to produce any video showing what Trump claims he saw. So I'm going with it never happened as Trump stated until someone can show that it did.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:57 AM (wqVD1)

Strawman.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 12:58 AM (zt+N6)

479 "I knew someone else whose mother grew up in Santa Barbara and was there, on their ranch up near El Capitan, when the Japanese I-boat (sub)
shelled the oil pier at Ellwood, setting off the 'panic of '42' - February 1942. (this incident also had interesting implications for rushed coastal artillery efforts in San Diego, San Pedro, and San
Francisco)"

Oregon got bombed by a Japanese pilot. He didn't do any real damage. Some of their incendiary balloon devices reached our forests but they were so wet the fires didn't do much damage, either.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:59 AM (39g3+)

480 #440

And I can tell you without question they were available for purchase in time for the holiday season in 1999 because I was called upon to install several by people who were my IT clients.

The first version of the ReplayTV you could buy was the Panasonic Showstopper.

Both DVRs were in limited supply early on and like the early Prius sold to select customers, especially in Hollywood, as a form of PR. It took several years for the concept of what a DVR was and why it was desirable to penetrate the market but anyone who really cared and had the money had no obstacle to owning one in September of 2001.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 12:59 AM (IdCqF)

481 Fox has broken a new term. Adam Housely talked about:

"Tactical clothing"

I wonder if there's tactical underwear available? That would be pretty cool.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 12:59 AM (zc3Db)

482 Here you go. Over on Breitbart I see a story about Cruz saying as President he would hire Trump to build the wall.

Posted by: Darth Randall at December 03, 2015 12:59 AM (KlVdw)

483 Kit up, thathalfrican.

My daughter wants her CHL.

We going to the range this weekend.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 12:59 AM (zyIlW)

484 "This."

Ok, but now there is no question that there were news reports at the time that claimed that muslims were celebrating on 9/11.

It is objectively true that in the days following 9/11 there were news reports of mulims in New Jersey celebrating on rooftops.

That happened.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (Kqit+)

485 So eyewitness accounts, the mayor of New York City's word, and several newspapers stating it happened aren't tangible evidence? It really is "pics or it didn't happen" for you? Seriously?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:55 AM (39g3+)

Or a police report.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (wqVD1)

486 469 Maet,

See 429. So what proof do we have you had nothing to do with Jacob Wetterling?

Posted by: rd at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (Ltj2h)

487 >>>NO. NO. NO.

Either what he said is true or it is false. Truth and falsity still matter to me. I care and I want to know what the actual veracity is. The fact that so many people simply cannot contemplate the likelihood that Trump was simply wrong in what he said makes me feel like I'm being gaslighted.

I am not ready to drink the new truthiness koolaid without a fight.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:48 AM (wqVD1)<<<
Trump was NOT simply wrong. He was RIGHT.
There were Muslims celebrating in the US on 9/11. Giuliani sent cops to break up the fights because solid Americans were beating them up. Giuliani said his cops had to break up fights because of celebrations.Just as he has done from the beginning Trump takes a truth and exaggerates it. He takes something the majority of Americans have been feeling and wanting to hear for 8/16 years and rubs the press and pols noses in it.Trump is a wild card. Trump is dangerous. But until someone else, someone with character, emerges who is willing to stick it to the Vichy collaborators he will continue.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (4ihv2)

488 but then, the Germans were doing it too - and continued to, after the US got involved in the war - but they weren't rounded up and tossed in camps.

Yes, they were. Italians too.

Not of the scale of the Japanese, but it happened.

Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (N8hFs)

489 407 I agree that if there was a video, it should be readily available, but it's weird to me that the Trump haters are so freaked out about it.
And I am not a Trumpette by any stretch, other than liking that he's got balls.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:40 AM (

This. I remember seeing video of people on rooftops in nj celebrating. And no, it never even occurred to me to tape what was going on. On the lack of video: loads of people here have been mentioning screen shotting that douche nozzles' tweet before it gets memory holed. Between that & the memory holing of uncontested 9/11 footage, yeah totally possible & plausible evidence exists & has been disappeared.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (Vm8WO)

490 Although the header doesn't support it, I think Maet's main gripe is that Trump says he saw a video and that no one can come up with any such video.

He's following the same arc as the news, a week behind.

"It never happened"
-OK here's proof.
"That's just one paper"
-here's more proof and hundreds of eyewitnesses
"well you said thousands!"

etc. No "OK I was wrong, but you exaggerated," just attack, attack, attack. I get weary of that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (39g3+)

491 Meat,

Splinter, plank, Dude.

Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (MQEz6)

492 Welp, Fox just confirmed the names.

I believe we are at a tipping point people.

So ... what's the Mohammed factor?

But wait - is there video of absolutely everything? Then it isn't proven that anything happened, right?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (oKE6c)

493
Hmm, very reluctant to dip my toe in these waters, but ....

All Teh Meh, you are spectacularly mischaracterizing "fake but accurate" as anything resembling Trumpian bombast, hyperbole, or sloppiness. "Fake but accurate", I think, has its origin in the Rather TANG memo affair, wherein an implausible "fact" complete with "documents" to back it up was confected, out of thin air. A complete fabrication. Which, idiotically, was asserted to nonetheless "represent" truth, somehow. Or something.

Trump, on the other hand, appears to have been guilty - at worst - of hyperbole. And Maet, the media reports - some quoting law enforcement and FBI regarding prior incidents or Islamic extremist associations at locations where "celebrations" were reported - include a just discovered CBS local affiliate report, in addition to many others.

Look at the Trump quote. It's not a brief to an administrative law court, it's Trump doing his usual rambling free association style interview answer. "Thousands" is really the only real issue - and THAT, it is important to note, represents a gigantic goal-post transfer from the original pearl-clutching response to Trump's comment. I am fairly sure the teapot tempest started with a standard issue outraged denial of any such "celebrations" at all, with the required heaping of abuse on Trump as xenophobic bigoted blah blah blah.

In the post-American, unrecognizable, orwellian nightmare of today, where preposterous idiots and weirdos dominate the commanding heights of govt., academia, communications, and culture, where things like econ statistics and even f***ing temperature records now must be regarded as Soviet in terms of integrity, and an impossibly vile, corrupt, and stupid figure like Clinton can be considered for any public office much less president, Trump's inelegance just doesn't move the needle on my meter. I just checked and tapped it again. Nope, nothing.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (QDnY+)

494 "but anyone who really cared and had the money had no obstacle to owning one in September of 2001."

Which would exclude those living in a crappy part of New Jersey 10 to an apartment.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (Kqit+)

495 It is objectively true that in the days following 9/11 there were news reports of mulims in New Jersey celebrating on rooftops.
That happened.
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (Kqit+)

There were lots of reports during that time.

The question is whether the event reported actually happened.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:02 AM (wqVD1)

496 This. I remember seeing video of people on rooftops in nj celebrating. And no, it never even occurred to me to tape what was going on. On the lack of video: loads of people here have been mentioning screen shotting that douche nozzles' tweet before it gets memory holed. Between that & the memory holing of uncontested 9/11 footage, yeah totally possible & plausible evidence exists & has been disappeared.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (Vm8WO)

Clearly you are just shilling for Trump bebe.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:02 AM (zt+N6)

497 Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 12:58 AM (dvuhZ)

I swear to God, I feel like we've been in an alternate universe lately.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 01:02 AM (RuxkS)

498 Torquwrench, there were refineries up there I believe. You can still see the concrete gun bases at the Ventura river mouth.

Posted by: The Jackhole somewhere on Ventura Highway at December 03, 2015 01:02 AM (dULJN)

499 I'm crazy like that.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 12:53 AM (wqVD1)
---
So at least you admit your crazy.

---
461 448 Maet does not want us aping the left, blindly adhering to and defending every word our Most Exalted utters, regardless of whether it may or may or be true. I get that.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 12:51 AM (RuxkS)
---
I get that, and it's a fine reminder... but this is not that hill for which to make said stand.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 01:02 AM (MbrzC)

500 " No "OK I was wrong, but you exaggerated," just attack, attack, attack. I get weary of that."

Exactly.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (Kqit+)

501 Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (oKE6c)

it's over 9000 bruh.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (R5HRU)

502 This ONT will not end well.

Posted by: L, Elle at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (2x3L+)

503 Absolutely agree, but we don't have to lower ourselves to their standard. I think that's all Maet is saying.>>>

I think it is time for me to say goodnight.

Not doing well with the gray area after what we all saw this afternoon.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (wHX4r)

504 Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (wqVD1)

OK, clearly we're going to need notarized statements from 1001 people with "Mohammed" in their name swearing that they celebrated wildly on 9/11.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (oKE6c)

505 Good thing Zapruder was there. Otherwise, we'd have to rely on first-hand reports.

Posted by: Maintainting a low profile at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (9mTYi)

506 Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (QDnY+)

Well stated. Bravo.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:04 AM (zc3Db)

507 In WWI, the loathsome Wilson ginned up all sorts of anti-German propaganda. Also, jailed quite a few anti-war people.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 01:04 AM (dvuhZ)

508 Or a police report.

Why on earth would there be a police report of people celebrating?? They didn't break any laws by being jerks about it.

There is some evidence of that sort, a policeman's notes about how he has to go home because of what happened and how he saw people cheering, hand written on a daily report sheet.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:04 AM (39g3+)

509 The assertion was that TIVO was common, not just available. It was not

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:04 AM (zOTsN)

510 #472

None of which changes the fact that small video cameras were widely available at the time.

#473

The Klan actually did film plenty of their meetings. You can find much of it on YouTube. They weren't especially secretive about their existence and legally conducted get togethers. It isn't like they were going to discuss prosecutable crimes in front of such a gathering.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:04 AM (IdCqF)

511 I doubt most New Yorkers would take kindly to seeing celebrations when the towers feel.

I would think there would be a number of surgical removals of all kinds of footwear from the celebrants' posteriors.

Then again, I doubt a lot of cops would be exactly sympathetic enough to take reports of celebrants getting a mudhole stomped in their ass.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (zyIlW)

512 Mr. My Hair is so Awesome FBI Guy is backin up the Chief again....

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (AgTww)

513
it's over 9000 bruh.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (R5HRU)

No, no. It can't be more than ... 8999. So you're mistaken. /sarc

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (oKE6c)

514 Torquwrench, there were refineries up there I believe. You can still see the concrete gun bases at the Ventura river mouth.
----------------

Is there video?

Posted by: Maintainting a low profile at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (9mTYi)

515 Fell.

dammit.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (zyIlW)

516 Tashfeen Malik is the dead shooter, female. Via press conference

Posted by: The Jackhole somewhere on Ventura Highway at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (dULJN)

517 Look at the Trump quote. It's not a brief to an administrative law court, it's Trump doing his usual rambling free association style interview answer. "Thousands" is really the only real issue - and THAT, it is important to note, represents a gigantic goal-post transfer from the original pearl-clutching response to Trump's comment. I am fairly sure the teapot tempest started with a standard issue outraged denial of any such "celebrations" at all, with the required heaping of abuse on Trump as xenophobic bigoted blah blah blah.

I could accept all this except that Trump (and many of his die hard supporters) doubled down after the fact and declared that everything he said was correct in full and complete detail. That is what irks me.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (wqVD1)

518 Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 01:02 AM (MbrzC)

Agreed! But we need to be ever vigilant to keep from Going There.

Constant Vigilance!!

Constant Vigilance, damn it!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (RuxkS)

519 "The question is whether the event reported actually happened."

Well, there's significant proof that it did, but apparently none that will satisfy you.

However, the larger political question is if Trump actually believes that it happened and based on the fact that there are news reports from the day claiming that it happened, it's pretty damn likely that he is not making things up but remembering real reports that really were broadcast and really were written.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (Kqit+)

520

with all that was going on it never would have occured to me to tape a news cast. cant imagine why I would

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (zOTsN)

521 I could accept all this except that Trump (and many of his die hard supporters) doubled down after the fact and declared that everything he said was correct in full and complete detail. That is what irks me.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (wqVD1)

Who here has done that?

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (zt+N6)

522 Hey, don't tell Meaty, but Trump's going to say something stupid tomorrow.

And the day after that. And the day after that. Pretty much until he passes of natural causes in a decade or 3.

Here's the kicker: no one fucking cares.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (9YDUz)

523 #509

Your assertion is that if it wasn't on your radar, it wasn't common. Maybe in your zip code but not in the ones near me.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (IdCqF)

524 Mr. My Hair is so Awesome FBI Guy is backin up the Chief again....
Posted by: HillbillyKing
--------------

He needs to work on his grammar, rather than his hair. He's said a couple of odd things. "We send our sadness to San Bernadino.."

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:07 AM (9mTYi)

525 sleep well everyone

Posted by: Jake at December 03, 2015 01:07 AM (QelBn)

526 I wonder if there's tactical underwear available?

http://goo.gl/UQNp44

Posted by: Socratease at December 03, 2015 01:07 AM (2GbWn)

527 Well shit, Tsshfeen is an Indian name, I think. Muzz, but not Arabic.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 01:07 AM (RuxkS)

528 Maet, did you view the video I posted at 457?

Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 01:07 AM (N8hFs)

529 Trump was NOT simply wrong. He was RIGHT.
There were Muslims celebrating in the US on 9/11. Giuliani sent cops to break up the fights because solid Americans were beating them up. Giuliani said his cops had to break up fights because of celebrations.Just as he has done from the beginning Trump takes a truth and exaggerates it. He takes something the majority of Americans have been feeling and wanting to hear for 8/16 years and rubs the press and pols noses in it.Trump is a wild card. Trump is dangerous. But until someone else, someone with character, emerges who is willing to stick it to the Vichy collaborators he will continue.
Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (4ihv2)

So which is it - was what Trump said factually correct or was it just Trumpian hyperbole?

It can't be both.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:07 AM (wqVD1)

530 the day Trump said it, I said it was not thousands. Several dozen, hundreds maybe but not thousands

that is diffferent than none or it never happened

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (zOTsN)

531 Trump (and many of his die hard supporters) doubled down after the fact and declared that everything he said was correct in full and complete detail.

They did? I must have missed that. Seriously, who anywhere said that? The most I've heard from Trump is along the lines of "up yours, I'm not backing down."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (39g3+)

532 When I was sneaking out documents for Bill, I managed to get all the videos and reports of the celebrating muzzies too.

Don't ask me how I managed to sneak the tivos out of the archives... let's just say I needed to eat a lot of roughage for the next few weeks.

Posted by: zombie Sandy Burglar at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (VO5mN)

533 "Tactical clothing"

I wonder if there's tactical underwear available? That would be pretty cool.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
****

Tactical condoms? Tactical toilet paper? Why, the applications are limitless!

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (hVdx9)

534 The assertion was that TIVO was common, not just available. It was not

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:04 AM (zOTsN)

And hard drives were much, much, much smaller back then. I doubt those old TiVos held much data.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (zc3Db)

535 530 the day Trump said it, I said it was not thousands. Several dozen, hundreds maybe but not thousands

that is diffferent than none or it never happened

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (zOTsN)

Not according to Maetenloch.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (zt+N6)

536 Tashfeen Malik
---------------
Ah! I knew it. A Lutheran.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:09 AM (9mTYi)

537 Maetenloch, you're making the perfect the enemy of the somewhat good.

This whole thing is such a shit show.

Posted by: L, Elle at December 03, 2015 01:09 AM (2x3L+)

538 Oh, the green, rolling hills of West Virginia
Are the nearest thing to Heaven that I'll ever know....

https://youtu.be/FMdRVdpjJ6U

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 03, 2015 01:09 AM (lutOX)

539 Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (oKE6c)

No Jay, By Maet's Standard you need video of them doing it. Nothing else will suffice.

And I tried to point out how absurd this standard is in 429. News reports, people's retelling of their own experiences, some videos of dozens of people are not enough.

It MUST BE VIDEO, and IT MUST BE THOUSANDS. Nothing else is sufficient.

I think there is a term for this behavior in the psychology/

Posted by: rd at December 03, 2015 01:09 AM (Ltj2h)

540 Your assertion is that if it wasn't on your radar, it wasn't common. Maybe in your zip code but not in the ones near me.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (IdCqF)

my zip code was in NJ, near the city. Was yours?

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:09 AM (zOTsN)

541 I feel like I am 14 again, refereeing amongst the wolfpack that was my 7 brothers.

Ain't nobody got time for that no mo' , so I am off to bed!

Good night my loves; please don't make each other bleed.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at December 03, 2015 01:09 AM (RuxkS)

542 " could accept all this except that Trump (and many of his die hard supporters) doubled down after the fact and declared that everything he said was correct in full and complete detail. That is what irks me"

No. No they didn't. They said that there were reports of it happening. And the leftwing media said "nu uhhhhh" and so those supporters combed threw the news of those days and found the reports and now you're saying "so? Doesn't count! I want video!!"

Which is really frustrating and stupid because the fact those news reports exist at all is enough to vindicate Trump from charge of making it up which was the original charge levied against him.

But goalposts will be moved.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:10 AM (Kqit+)

543 I wonder if there's tactical underwear available? That would be pretty cool.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
-------------

Under Armor, man. Get with it.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:10 AM (9mTYi)

544 niters Tammy.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 01:10 AM (zyIlW)

545 OK, clearly we're going to need notarized statements from 1001 people with "Mohammed" in their name swearing that they celebrated wildly on 9/11.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:03 AM (oKE6c)
---

It will still not be enough, you understand that right?

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 01:10 AM (MbrzC)

546 Why on earth would there be a police report of people celebrating?? They didn't break any laws by being jerks about it.
According to the linked article, LE was worried the celebrating would lead to a riot or a lynching, that's why they investigated. (First use of "anti-Muslim backlash" justification?)

Posted by: Socratease at December 03, 2015 01:11 AM (2GbWn)

547 holy fuck, these people wanted to know WHO made the weapons?

LOLWTF

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:11 AM (R5HRU)

548 >>>Or a police report.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:04 AM (39g3+) <<<

There are police reports. Giuliani said his cops made calls because of fights between citizens and celebrants. There must be reports.Maet, are you calling Giuliani a liar?

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 01:11 AM (4ihv2)

549 later Tammy

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:11 AM (R5HRU)

550 Under Armor, man. Get with it.
Posted by: Mike hammer

Women's panties with a cotton shell.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 01:11 AM (9YDUz)

551 I wonder if there's tactical underwear available?

http://goo.gl/UQNp44

Posted by: Socratease at December 03, 2015 01:07 AM (2GbWn)

Heh. But it should really have a side pocket or a mag holder or something. Otherwise, it's just "tactical-style"

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (zc3Db)

552 "Tactical clothing"

I wonder if there's tactical underwear available? That would be pretty cool.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
****

Tactical condoms? Tactical toilet paper? Why, the applications are limitless!

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 03, 2015 01:08 AM (hVdx9)

Go for it! Your possible version of the Pet Rock awaits you. If you can get Goose Mountain, Wally Mart or DickHead's Sports to stock it, you will make some serious cash.

Posted by: rd at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (Ltj2h)

553 Very goodnight Tammy-al

Posted by: L, Elle at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (2x3L+)

554 I could accept all this except that Trump (and many of his die hard supporters) doubled down after the fact and declared that everything he said was correct in full and complete detail. That is what irks me.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (wqVD1)

****

Yet your position is that if what Trump said, in its entirety, is not 100% documentably accurate, then nothing happened at all.

Just......Wow.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (OxOeA)

555 So

Just exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Do we have any evidence? Can we call in some expert witnesses?

Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (5gSAY)

556 I could accept all this except that Trump (and many of his die hard
supporters) doubled down after the fact and declared that everything he
said was correct in full and complete detail. That is what irks me.

So now we're talking about factual accuracy in full and complete detail? So if the celebrations took place after midnight on 9/11, that falsifies the statement?

With respect, I think you're being hyper-legalistic. I think a more reasonable interpretation of Trump's remark was that a significant segment of American-resident Muslims supported the 9/11 attacks, as evidenced by celebrations among some of them. And, frankly, given the widespread celebrations elsewhere - which I presume you don't doubt - it's inconceivable that such celebrations didn't take place here, too, among Muslims resident in America. Hell, I knew a Muslim in grad school who'd have been cheering his head off if he were in the country.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (oKE6c)

557 It will still not be enough, you understand that right?

Evidently not, not without contemporaneous videos of them doing it that Trump could have seen.

Posted by: Socratease at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (2GbWn)

558 The left is throwing around a ridiculous stat of being over 360 mass shootings in the USA now. SO MANY WE MUST BAN GUNS!!!!1!!!11!

This is done by looking at every shooting involving more than 1 casualty in the entire nation and calling each one a "mass shooting." So all those drive by's in Chicago and Baltimore: mass shootings.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (39g3+)

559 Tashfeen

Isn't that a hair product?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (DmRs2)

560 The more suitable DVR for making such a recording would have been the ReplayTV 4000 series, which was just coming to market at the time. It was the first DVR with an Ethernet port and soon after it appeared there was a Java app called DVarchive that let you pull the MPEG-2 files over a network to a PC. I first practiced video editing by making ad free episodes from recorded shows.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:13 AM (IdCqF)

561 They used AR 15s

Posted by: The Jackhole somewhere on Ventura Highway at December 03, 2015 01:13 AM (dULJN)

562 Just exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Do we have any evidence? Can we call in some expert witnesses?

Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (5gSAY)

Ah, we'll need contemporaneous video of that.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:13 AM (oKE6c)

563 That's Afro Sheen.

Heh.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 01:13 AM (zyIlW)

564 Reportedly, GGE has a tactical kilt. Or so I've heard. I'm not asking.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:13 AM (9mTYi)

565 in our desire for precision lets remember we, on our side, should give each other the benefit of the doubt and are men and women of good will

and I am not talking about Trump. I mean COBs and commenters

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:13 AM (zOTsN)

566 with all that was going on it never would have occured to me to tape a news cast. cant imagine why I would

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (zOTsN)

I thought about turning on my VCR and recording everything I was watching - since I was changing channels every two minutes - but I didn't have any blank tapes around so I just let it go. But I certainly did think about doing it - probably around 11:30am.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:14 AM (zc3Db)

567 WV nighters to You Tammy it was fun talking about my limited hillbilly times.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 01:14 AM (wHX4r)

568 458 No. I'm open to the possibility but I would like to see some kind of tangible evidence that it actually happened before I will accept it as proven. I'm crazy like that.
Posted by: Maetenloch at

So Rudy Giuliani confirming it happened isn't good enough? Can someone with youtube-fu please find the Rudy footage & post it? It happened within the last week.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 01:14 AM (Vm8WO)

569 Cute Puppy video in the sidebar is cute.

Posted by: rickl at December 03, 2015 01:15 AM (sdi6R)

570 Just spied a used 28 ga. for sale.

Here's side-by-side pic of shells:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cyx2hup

Tough to find shells for that. .410 is easier to come across. Reason for purchase?

Well, other than, .......just because.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 03, 2015 01:15 AM (WWdgA)

571 They used AR 15s
Posted by: The Jackhole
----------------

I wonder if they are the ones made while Bushmaster was owned by the California Teachers Union.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:15 AM (9mTYi)

572 Trump's evidence is a heck of a lot better than Dan Rather's, but it's obvious this isn't about whether or not Trump had a valid point anymore.

Posted by: Socratease at December 03, 2015 01:16 AM (2GbWn)

573 560 The more suitable DVR for making such a recording would have been the ReplayTV 4000 series, which was just coming to market at the time. It was the first DVR with an Ethernet port and soon after it appeared there was a Java app called DVarchive that let you pull the MPEG-2 files over a network to a PC. I first practiced video editing by making ad free episodes from recorded shows.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:13 AM (IdCqF)

Dude you've made enough mention that you are in the tech business, such as regularly attending the Consumer Electronics Expo in Vegas. I doubt you are going to be even close to the average American which was probably still using dialup in 2001 and just starting to maybe have the option of cable or dsl.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:16 AM (zt+N6)

574 Tough to find shells for that. .410 is easier to come across. Reason for purchase?

Well, other than, .......just because.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC
----------------

Ah. A self answering question.
You are not going to make me justify my Griswold & Gunnison, are you?

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:16 AM (9mTYi)

575 However, the larger political question is if Trump actually believes that it happened and based on the fact that there are news reports from the day claiming that it happened, it's pretty damn likely that he is not making things up but remembering real reports that really were broadcast and really were written.
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (Kqit+)

Why do you keep bringing up reports? Trump said he actually saw thousands of Muslims celebrating in NJ as the towers went down. That's far, far more than vague reports passed on during a newscast.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (wqVD1)

576 Bob Dole would like to get some of that tactical underwear.

Sometimes Bob Dole runs out of his little blue pills, and Bob Dole could really use tactical undies with the thing that goes up. Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...

Posted by: Bob Dole at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (VO5mN)

577 There's a rumor going around that Lincoln got shot, but I can't find any video, so pfft.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (oKE6c)

578 Rudy was a guest on Hannity.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (4ihv2)

579 Yeah AR-15s and pistols, automatics from what I've read. So no AK-47 as in initial reports (does the media think that's the only long gun that exists?)

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (39g3+)

580 329 A VCR camera was about 8"x4"x15" and weighed pounds, there were no cell phone video or handy cam. It's entirely reasonable that there is no video.

Some of the most horrifying footage of that day is amateur video taken from nearby buildings. Then there is the Naudet Brothers documentary. Jules Naudet managed to film the collapse of the South Tower as felt in the North Tower as well as the collapse of the North Tower while running for his life. You can still buy their documentary from places like Amazon as well as the 9/11 Museum Store.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (YjDyJ)

581 So Rudy Giuliani confirming it happened isn't good enough? Can someone with youtube-fu please find the Rudy footage & post it? It happened within the last week.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 01:14 AM (Vm8WO)

But that wasn't in New Jersey so therefore wrong. Just like it wasn't thousands so therefore wrong. Who is being stubborn and bullheaded and not willing to give at all on this again?

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:18 AM (zt+N6)

582 There's a rumor going around that Lincoln got shot, but I can't find any video, so pfft.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (oKE6c)

*****

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:18 AM (OxOeA)

583 @538

Good sippin music there Kasper. Well done!

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:19 AM (AgTww)

584 Julie Banderas would look good sitting on my face.

Posted by: Garrett at December 03, 2015 01:19 AM (6dAqB)

585 Maet - PLEASE address Giuliani confirming that Trump was right - not in the numbers game - but in what happened.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:19 AM (R5HRU)

586 Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 01:01 AM (QDnY+)

Yes, I'm aware of the origination of fake but accurate, the explanations I'm seeing here is no, Trump didn't see what he claimed to have seen (fake), but there were a few Muslims celebrating in NJ, albeit no video proof as Trump said, and probably many more celebrating elsewhere (but accurate). If the best that can be said is that there may be a small amount of accuracy in the fake, that's still not something in which I'm interested and if Trumps hyperbole continues unchallenged by his supporters, they're most likely going to find themselves in a scenario where theres no accuracy at all eventually.

Posted by: All Teh Meh at December 03, 2015 01:20 AM (iiDhh)

587 Just spied a used 28 ga. for sale.

Here's side-by-side pic of shells:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/cyx2hup

Tough to find shells for that. .410 is easier to come across. Reason for purchase?
>>>

It' rare and it's art. Hang it on the wall.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 01:20 AM (wHX4r)

588 #540

No, it was not. Nor does that have any bearing on consumer electronics. Your evidence is anecdotal, as is my countering evidence. I knew plenty of people who were TiVo early adopters. That was the nature of both my interests and my job.

To claim they weren't in the stores and available to those who understood what they did is on a par with the legendary Pauline Kael "But I don't know anybody who would vote for Nixon!" It was a gadget, not a war or some major medical breakthrough. There is no failing in not having noticed it then. There is in trying to pretend nobody else did.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:20 AM (IdCqF)

589 Yet your position is that if what Trump said, in its entirety, is not 100% documentably accurate, then nothing happened at all.
Just......Wow.
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (OxOeA)

I don't see how you could possibly infer that from what I wrote. ???

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:20 AM (wqVD1)

590 I think the subject of muslims celebrating 9/11 is bringing up a lot of repressed feelings.

I think Maet has made up his mind, and so have the people on the other side. No one is going to budge off their position tonight.

Please drop this for tonight for the sake of the Community of the Horde.

Posted by: rd at December 03, 2015 01:21 AM (Ltj2h)

591 Ah. A self answering question.
You are not going to make me justify my Griswold & Gunnison, are you?
Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:16 AM (9mTYi)

Nope! :-D

Just curious. A lot of buds of mine like to use the lighter gauges (20, but no lower) for dove. Easier to wield than a choked 12 ga. Then again, an industrious and crafty gun guy could make a sweet snake charmer out of a 28 ga.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 03, 2015 01:21 AM (WWdgA)

592 Taking it from the top...

Trump blustered that he saw thousands celebrating.
Opposition countered there was no evidence that any of it happened.
More than one contemporary report has surfaced that something happened.

Since one is more than none Opposition has been conclusively proven wrong.

Trump's claim is inconclusive.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 03, 2015 01:21 AM (T78UI)

593 Trump didn't see what he claimed to have seen (fake)

You're trying to prove a negative. He may very well have seen it, we don't know one way or another. The fact that nobody has dragged up local TV footage of Muslim celebrations doesn't mean it never happened, was fake, or a lie.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:21 AM (39g3+)

594 "Torquwrench, there were refineries up there I believe. You can still see the concrete gun bases at the Ventura river mouth."

Refineries still!

Hard to see from the coast highway, but they are there. Watch for the signage.

I was thinking of the idea of a restaurant immediately north of Goleta. The highway goes from dense urbanity in the Santa Barbara-UCSB-Goleta axis to dark rurality pretty rapidly, even in 2015.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 03, 2015 01:21 AM (noWW6)

595
Weirddave, I'm not aware (meaning - I'm not aware, not that it's not correct) of actual physical internment of US nationals of Italian or German descent in WWII. Italian "enemy aliens" (cool ring to it, but actually just the dry precise term for them under Geneva) were interned - mostly ship's crew who lucked out by being in US ports when Italy declared war on the US.

Germans. Not aware of anything on a significant scale. (my mother did tell me about how she and her brother were warned not to speak German outside the house when they were elementary school age - this was in the 20s - someone here noted the anti-German stuff during WWI).

Italian-Americans were, I believe, in effect forcibly removed from "strategic" locations in on the west coast. Essentially Fisherman's Wharf in SF and Little Italy in San Diego. This included Joe DiMaggio's parents, who I think had to give up their Fisherman's Wharf restaurant. On the east coast, ahemm, things were a "bit" different. As in Hoover's deputy negotiating a deal in prison with Lucky Luciano for no labor action on the docks until victory, in return for less pressure on mob rackets from the Feds.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 01:21 AM (QDnY+)

596 We're gonna need more lawyers.

Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 03, 2015 01:22 AM (5gSAY)

597
I don't see how you could possibly infer that from what I wrote. ???

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:20 AM (wqVD1)

Because that's exactly what you keep spouting.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:22 AM (zt+N6)

598 "Why do you keep bringing up reports? Trump said he actually saw thousands of Muslims celebrating in NJ as the towers went down."

Because the reports had to come from somewhere, no? They didn't just spontaneously rise for the ether. They are reports because *someone* called in to say that they saw a bunch of muslim dickwads dancing on their apartments. I do not know (nor frankly care) if Trump was talking about seeing these things on the news or seeing them with his own two eyes. I don't know or care what his exact quote is. I do care, a lot, about people making vox style claims to shut down the conversation though. Such as "no, this didn't happen" when there is a ton of evidence that it did.

Especially on a day when a bunch of other muslim dickwads decided to get their Jihad on.

I am just so, so tired of the gotcha game. There is strong evidence that it happened. It was, at the very least, reported to have happened. That puts it well above the sneer line.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:23 AM (Z/8dZ)

599 As an aside to the Trump spat:

Does the attempt to build the Ground Zero mosque count as any sort of 9/11 celebration? Just wondering ...

BTW, the organization behind that mosque was "The Cordoba Group" ... a name whose meaning escaped 99.7% of Americans, it seems.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:23 AM (zc3Db)

600 It' rare and it's art. Hang it on the wall.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 01:20 AM (wHX4r)

That's a good reason.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 03, 2015 01:23 AM (WWdgA)

601 28 Gauge loads are not in any way hard to find.
Most of the guys I bird hunt with carry them.

Posted by: Garrett at December 03, 2015 01:23 AM (6dAqB)

602 @ 524

He needs to work on his grammar, rather than his hair. He's said a
couple of odd things. "We send our sadness to San Bernadino.."

I caught that too, Mike.

He aced the hair/wardrobe section of Bureau PR school... but had a hard time with the sophistry semesters.

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:23 AM (AgTww)

603 511 Then again, I doubt a lot of cops would be exactly sympathetic enough to take reports of celebrants getting a mudhole stomped in their ass.
Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 01:05 AM (

Excellent point.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 01:24 AM (Vm8WO)

604 #580

Was he the guy who was working in a studio nearby when he heard the noise, grabbed a camera, and ran out in time to catch the second plane going in, passing directly overhead?

I remember such a person being interviewed that morning. It was shortly before I managed to tear myself away and wake up my mother by announcing World War IV may have started.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:24 AM (IdCqF)

605 Don't know about today, but prayer has saved many a liberal family member from a strangling.

Posted by: Longtime lurker at December 03, 2015 01:25 AM (rdM+6)

606 With respect, I think you're being hyper-legalistic. I think a more reasonable interpretation of Trump's remark was that a significant segment of American-resident Muslims supported the 9/11 attacks, as evidenced by celebrations among some of them. And, frankly, given the widespread celebrations elsewhere - which I presume you don't doubt - it's inconceivable that such celebrations didn't take place here, too, among Muslims resident in America. Hell, I knew a Muslim in grad school who'd have been cheering his head off if he were in the country.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (oKE6c)

I am being hyper-legalistic. Because so many people are being hyper-lawyer-weasely in trying to find some way of making Trump's statement be true when it wasn't.

I just want to hear people say the following: What Trump said was incorrect.

If that's too hard, I'm willing to accept: There is no evidence for what Trump said and he is likely incorrect.

I just do not see what is so hard about admitting that Trump probably misremembered what he claimed to have seen.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:25 AM (wqVD1)

607 I don't think TiVo was moving many units in 2001, as it was pretty new technology, but I really don't know. We had cable internet by then but no DVR - but then we didn't watch that much TV then or now, so its hard to say how representative our household was.

I can't find hard sales numbers for the time, but I did find that they are losing market share and sales have plummeted.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:26 AM (39g3+)

608 16 is harder to find than 28.

Posted by: Garrett at December 03, 2015 01:26 AM (6dAqB)

609 @450. Not implicate Muslims or Islam

Yeah when Halal pigs fly

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 03, 2015 01:26 AM (2zd9l)

610 Weirddave, I'm not aware (meaning - I'm not aware, not that it's not correct) of actual physical internment of US nationals of Italian or German descent in WWII.

Someone, somewhere else, mentioned that a few days ago and I was taken aback. Never heard of such, other than the normal POW's taken.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 03, 2015 01:26 AM (WWdgA)

611 I just want to hear people say the following: What Trump said was incorrect.

If that's too hard, I'm willing to accept: There is no evidence for what Trump said and he is likely incorrect.

I just do not see what is so hard about admitting that Trump probably misremembered what he claimed to have seen.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:25 AM (wqVD1)

Then quite ignoring what plenty of people here have said.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:27 AM (zt+N6)

612 Maet - Giuliani said it happened.

Not sure what else needs to be said.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:27 AM (R5HRU)

613
torque, correct, things turn to rambling countryside and a few avocado groves just north of Goleta. But without looking it up, on the east side of 101, probably near one of the last exits north of Goleta and south of El Cap or Refugio, sits the restaurant and a few other businesses (have never exited the 101 to explore there).

And jackhole, speaking of refineries, a buddy who lives in Ventura told me that Big Oil had tried to re-open that refinery that sits at the east end of "old" Ventura several times, but the local idiot council had turned them down. True? I noticed the "walking stick" pumps working on the hill wells surrounding that part of town last time I was there.

Chris Taylor, yes, "Operation Elephant" using weather balloons and incendiaries to light fires in the northwest. Only ever killed a few kids and a mom, I think, when the kids found the bomb and brought it back to mom.

That air raid in Oregon was interesting. Submarine-launched.

The Japanese plan to attack the Panama Canal using similar sub-launched aircraft was one of the more fascinating plots of WWII.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 01:27 AM (QDnY+)

614 585 Maet - PLEASE address Giuliani confirming that Trump was right - not in the numbers game - but in what happened.
Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:19 AM (R5HRU)

If Trump's memory was wrong, so could be Guliani's. So it's not definitive for me. We are talking about events that happened 15 years ago.
But if what Giuliani says is correct, then there must be some corroborating evidence of it somewhere somehow.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (wqVD1)

615 I was alive then in 2001 I believe that I heard the same stuff about Muslims celebrating the 9/11 attacks. Maybe it was pokestan maybe it was new jersey. Who gives a fuck. My mind is made up.

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (wHX4r)

616 I'm not aware (meaning - I'm not aware, not that it's not correct) of actual physical internment of US nationals of Italian or German descent in WWII.

Me either. A ton of Germans and Italians were imprisoned in the USA, but I don't know of any internments. Could have happened, but not remotely on the scale of Japanese.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (39g3+)

617 Hey bebe!

Sure, some cops would go through the motions, and write some shit down, plus the number of LEOs at Ground Zero would mean that the manpower available to investigate every report of some jihadi celebrant getting a beatdown would be quite low.

And National Guardsmen that were activated sure as hell wouldn't be wasting their time over that bullshit.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (zyIlW)

618 Because, regardless of if this was your intent or not, saying "no muslims weren't dancing on their apartments during 9/11" is giving cover to the people who spin any act of terrorism committed by a muslim as evidence of islamophobia. Those are the people so committed to pushing the idea that it is just crazy talk to suggest that anyone of America's Most Peaceful Muslim Community could possibly celebrate as the towers fell.

It happened. I care far, far less about Trump than about acknowledging that it happened.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (Z/8dZ)

619 So eyewitness accounts, the mayor of New York City's word, and several newspapers stating it happened aren't tangible evidence? It really is "pics or it didn't happen" for you? Seriously?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 12:55 AM (39g3+)

Or a police report.
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (wqVD1)

*******

Yet your position is that if what Trump said, in its entirety, is not 100% documentably accurate, then nothing happened at all.
Just......Wow.
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (OxOeA)

I don't see how you could possibly infer that from what I wrote. ???
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:20 AM (wqVD1)

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (OxOeA)

620 Then quite ignoring what plenty of people here have said.
Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:27 AM (zt+N6)

Humor me. I just want to hear it. If you really believe it, then there's no problem in stating it.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (wqVD1)

621 583 @538

Good sippin music there Kasper. Well done!
Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:19 AM (AgTww)
***
There is no bad sippin' music....

Here's another. I felt warmth and moisture in my eyes the first time I heard it.

'In the dead of the night,
In the still and the quiet,
I slip away,
Like a bird in flight..."

https://youtu.be/bIkepwxZ0xY

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (lutOX)

622 Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (wqVD1)

Well ok then.

I will say I remember almost everything about that day.

I'm sure Giuliani does too.....jus' sayin'

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (R5HRU)

623 Germans. Not aware of anything on a significant scale. (my mother did
tell me about how she and her brother were warned not to speak German
outside the house when they were elementary school age - this was in the
20s - someone here noted the anti-German stuff during WWI).

Anti-German sentiment ran strong in WWI, both here and in Britain. Brits call German shepherds "Alsatians" to this day for that reason. There were similar instances here in the US; I remember being in a restaurant in Cambridge, MA that had a menu reflecting a "French fries" --> "freedom fries" type of renaming.

I dimly recall reading about problematic Germans and Italians (now hyphenated) being interned in camps in (IIRC) LA and other places. It's easy to imagine ranking members of the German-American Bund getting grabbed up.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (oKE6c)

624 Just curious. A lot of buds of mine like to use the lighter gauges (20, but no lower) for dove. Easier to wield than a choked 12 ga. Then again, an industrious and crafty gun guy could make a sweet snake charmer out of a 28 ga.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC
---------------------

I've mentioned before, my favorite bird gun for upland game was my boyhood Fox Model B, side-by-side, 26" , Mod & Imp. cylinders. Also killed my first deer with it.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (9mTYi)

625 Was he the guy who was working in a studio nearby when he heard the noise, grabbed a camera, and ran out in time to catch the second plane going in, passing directly overhead?

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:24 AM (IdCqF)

No. The French brothers were hanging with a fire company doing a documentary on becoming a NY city fireman. I think they followed a class through and 9/11 was the first day in the field for some guy they were following. (I don't remember exactly, but it was something like this). They followed him into the towers and were inside when the first tower came down, shooting their documentary.

This ran on TV once but now you have to pay for it. It's worth the cost. As I mentioned before, I thought they had edited out some stuff fom the footage regarding the people falling (for the TV broadcast) but I'm not totally sure about that. You could definitely hear the thumps as they hit the ground outside the lobby.

This documentary is definitely worth checking out. You won't find it running on any cable channels. You have to buy it, it seems.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:30 AM (zc3Db)

626 Shit, I woke up to find one hell of a fight between the Maet & the morons.

My take, Trump stepped in it. Instead of backing out he proceeded to get stuck deeper in the mud. But he will probably come out of this smelling like a rose. Since he's not a politician he can do no wrong

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 03, 2015 01:30 AM (7uC+4)

627 I've mentioned before, my favorite bird gun for upland game was my boyhood Fox Model B, side-by-side, 26" , Mod & Imp. cylinders. Also killed my first deer with it.
Posted by: Mike hammer
------

Oops, forgot. 20 Gauge.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (9mTYi)

628 Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (OxOeA)

You are mixing two assertions:

1) Everything Trump claims is true - 1000s, as the towers fell, etc etc.
2) There was in fact some Muslims celebrating in NJ on 9/11

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (wqVD1)

629 141 87 But the emperor Hirohito was exhorting the Japanese living in the US to commit acts of sabotage and spying. And since he was considered a living god, there was good reason to believe that some here would follow through on his orders.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 02, 2015 11:24 PM (

Didn't one of Ann Coulter's book publicize the fact that there was a well established spy network in the Japanese community on the west coast?
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 02, 2015 11:39 PM (hrqLp)

Germans had a hell of a spy ring set up in the US from before the war.

I was watching some documentary on the Tuskegee Airman, and one of them was shot down and captured by the Germans. His interrogator came in with copies of his college yearbook pictures and almost all of his personal information.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (Z7G74)

630 Rhomboid, they are currently tearing out that refinery. It was operational when I was in grade school.80s. The oilfields are still pumping away.

Posted by: The Jackhole somewhere on Ventura Highway at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (dULJN)

631 Sucks for the People Republic Internees if they Peoples Gov get even more draconian on AR's over this....

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (AgTww)

632 Ok, it was probably not 1000 people. Trump is probably misremembering that detail.

Now will you admit that it is very likely that there were *some* people "tailgating"( WaPo's term) on their apartment as the towers fell?

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (Z/8dZ)

633 Humor me. I just want to hear it. If you really believe it, then there's no problem in stating it.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:29 AM (wqVD1)

Comment 446. Plenty of others have also said that Trump was wrong about 1000's celebrating.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:32 AM (zt+N6)

634

the San Bernadino jihadis filmed their attack on Go Pro to "ake a statement"

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:32 AM (zOTsN)

635 We recorded like 3 hours of CNN coverage of Desert Storm as it unfolded, on video tape, so who knows what odd stuff is on there. I haven't looked at the recording since we taped it. Its probably 90% boring repetition.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:32 AM (39g3+)

636 Me either. A ton of Germans and Italians were
imprisoned in the USA, but I don't know of any internments. Could have
happened, but not remotely on the scale of Japanese.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (39g3+)
I believe that there were internments, but not wholesale ones. The difference in scale might well reflect the proportion of the demographic interned rather than the absolute numbers. Say, e.g, 100,000 each of Germans, Italians, and Japanese were interned. That would be a trivial fraction of the first two groups, but a significant fraction of the last.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:33 AM (oKE6c)

637 "You are mixing two assertions:

1) Everything Trump claims is true - 1000s, as the towers fell, etc etc.
2) There was in fact some Muslims celebrating in NJ on 9/11"

No. You mixed those assertions. My initial claim was that there were, in fact, some muslims celebrating in NJ on 9/11. You're the one who brought Trump into it.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:33 AM (Z/8dZ)

638 637 "You are mixing two assertions:

1) Everything Trump claims is true - 1000s, as the towers fell, etc etc.
2) There was in fact some Muslims celebrating in NJ on 9/11"

No. You mixed those assertions. My initial claim was that there were, in fact, some muslims celebrating in NJ on 9/11. You're the one who brought Trump into it.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:33 AM (Z/8dZ)

Absolutely true.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:33 AM (zt+N6)

639 the San Bernadino jihadis filmed their attack on Go Pro to "ake a statement"
Posted by: ThunderB
----------------

If that ever is make public, it's going to be gruesome. I hope it *does* go public.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:34 AM (9mTYi)

640 "the San Bernadino jihadis filmed their attack on Go Pro to "ake a statement""

Well. At least we will have video evidence for internet arguments in 2030.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:34 AM (Kqit+)

641 Didn't one of Ann Coulter's book publicize the fact that there was a well established spy network in the Japanese community on the west coast?

I think that was Michelle Malkin, but yeah there was. Out of the LA embassy I think it was. I read about it in another book about pre-war odd news.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:34 AM (39g3+)

642 396 I don't think TIVO was really a thing in 2001. I had my first baby in 2005 and the hospital across town was doing this huge mother's day promotion and giving away free TIVOs to everyone who delivered and I remember it being a really, really big deal.

And even if it were, does anyone anywhere still own a TIVO from 2001? And if by some miracle they do, do they still have that random bit of footage that would be in no way meaningful except for this exact conversation?
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 12:38 AM (Z/8dZ)

I have a ReplayTV from 2001 that I sometimes still use, but it is on its 3rd hard drive, so I don't think I have any footage of it stored on it.

ReplayTV was the first DVR that came out, and it came out in 2000. TIVO came out a few months after.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at December 03, 2015 01:34 AM (Z7G74)

643 I like my assumptions mixed with bourbon.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:34 AM (9mTYi)

644 I Lived in NJ in 2001 and heard the reports of Muslims celebrating. Did not see any of that.
People who lived close to the city where to worried about family working in the city to worry about idiots celebrating.
What I did see was leftists more or less saying we deserved this. And then seeing the shock on their face when people they had thought where like minded had to be restrained from pummeling them.

Posted by: Big V at December 03, 2015 01:35 AM (BAHqV)

645 Me either. A ton of Germans and Italians were
imprisoned in the USA, but I don't know of any internments. Could have
happened, but not remotely on the scale of Japanese.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:28 AM (39g3+)

FWIW - The bulk of those Japanese-Americans interred were in fact Japanese nationals. They had a habit of registering their kids as Japanese citizens in case they ever wanted to go back home otherwise they would be treated as second-class citizens.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 03, 2015 01:35 AM (T78UI)

646 "If that ever is make public..."
-----------------

*looks at watch*

Yeah, it's late.

"made"

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:36 AM (9mTYi)

647 A police report?
On Sept. 11, 2001, someone is expecting to see a police report about celebrations in NJ?
While the buildings are falling down and people are jumping to their deaths, a cop is going to fill out a report about some people partying.
I don't think so.
Not on THAT day.
Just my $.02 worth.

Posted by: navybrat at December 03, 2015 01:36 AM (ETxiG)

648 You are mixing two assertions:

1) Everything Trump claims is true - 1000s, as the towers fell, etc etc.
2) There was in fact some Muslims celebrating in NJ on 9/11
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (wqVD1)

****

No, no I'm not. You asked for evidence of an all or none position on your side of this based on your own words.

I simply provided it.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:37 AM (OxOeA)

649 Mike, it won't go public. It should. Just as abortions and beheadings should be shown in the MSM. But showing these things does not advance their template

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 03, 2015 01:37 AM (Oy0zJ)

650

You know that part in NCIS where Harmon slaps DiNozzo in the back of the head?

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 01:37 AM (4ihv2)

651 640 "the San Bernadino jihadis filmed their attack on Go Pro to "ake a statement""
Well. At least we will have video evidence for internet arguments in 2030.
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:34 AM (Kqit+)

Ah, but do we have video of them videoing their attack? Then it's questionable.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:37 AM (oKE6c)

652 Cut my teeth on a Remington 1100 Special Field 20 Ga.

Killed a ton of grouse and woodcock with that little gun.

Posted by: Garrett at December 03, 2015 01:37 AM (6dAqB)

653 @
621
583 @538

Kasper,

On occasion, I've spent some time post show sippin with these fine folks....

https://youtu.be/StRcNK6M_9s

I think you'll like the rendition....

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:38 AM (AgTww)

654 Mike, it won't go public. It should. Just as abortions and beheadings should be shown in the MSM. But showing these things does not advance their template
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian
---------------

The narrative must be advanced, and any counter-information quashed.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:38 AM (9mTYi)

655 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:21 AM (39g3+)

I'm pointing out the explanations given, not attempting to prove he did, or didn't see what he claimed to have seen.

Posted by: All Teh Meh at December 03, 2015 01:38 AM (iiDhh)

656 #607

The era of the DVR has passed, a scant decade after the concept finally reached a critical mass. TiVo is desperately trying to stay relevant by embracing streaming and being the most convenient means to access multiple services alongside cable/satellite. With the latest firmware, if you select a show from the schedule that is also on one of the streamers, the TiVo will offer 'Watch it now' in the menu along with the expected record options. It's nice but how many are subscribing both to cable and streaming services? It's a nice feature for a limited audience while the ranks of the cord cutters grow.

The problem for them is they were the answer to freedom from the broadcast schedule grid but on-demand streaming does it far better. The networks are feeling it and more people in the industry are acknowledging that they'll likely live to see the end of schedule broadcasts for all but a few types of content, such as local news that can be essential in an emergency that damages the wired infrastructure.

We first got cable in 1973. The terrain between Thousand Oaks and all of the broadcast towers was such that you could maybe pick up KTLA if conditions were amenable. It's no surprise that the first cable TV deployment was in Colorado, where getting anything by antenna was far worse. To this day, I've never lived anywhere where OTA was really an option.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:39 AM (IdCqF)

657 "But without looking it up, on the east side of 101, probably near one of
the last exits north of Goleta and south of El Cap or Refugio, sits the
restaurant and a few other businesses (have never exited the 101 to
explore there)."

Okay, I will pencil that in to explore the next time I drive down to SoCal along the coast.

Further south, I was very amused about some surfer stoners recently having climbed over the fence from the abandoned dune complex west of LAX, which was once bucolic 1950s suburbia, and gotten busted. Another bit of regional Commiefornia history.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (noWW6)

658 Good topics. Good dialogue

Nite Morons
Be well

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, home is where the heart is, on the bus at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (09Lhy)

659 So should these shooters be called Bonnie and Khalid? Or is that too frivolous for scumbag terrorists who shot helpless handicapped people?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (39g3+)

660 German Internment camps.

http://www.gaic.info/internment_camp.html

Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (wHX4r)

661 There are dozens of good arguments that can be made in either 140 characters or thousand of words against Trump's candidacy.

I'm not sure this "show me a video of multiple thousands of New Jersey Muslims celebrating the fall of the Twin Towers or you must admit Trump is an unprincipled thug" argument is the best rhetorical hill to die on.

*shrugs*

Posted by: Walter Freeman at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (Jkzzm)

662 I think taking a Go Pro makes it far more likely to be terrorism

especially the "make a statement" part

wonder if he claims he was discriminated against at work because he was muslim

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (zOTsN)

663 I dunno what to tell you Maet. I posted a link to a contemporary news report of Muslims celebrating on the roof of their apartment house in Jersey. No, they don't have video of them celebrating, but they do have video of the FBI arresting 8 men in that apartment and leading them out in cuffs. I've asked twice, and you haven't addressed the video. I'm a trained historian, and this is what we would call solid, first person documentation. I would cite it with complete confidence in any book or paper I was publishing. I dunno what more you can reasonably want.

Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 01:41 AM (N8hFs)

664 >>>So should these shooters be called Bonnie and
Khalid? Or is that too frivolous for scumbag terrorists who shot
helpless handicapped people?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (39g3+)<<<

Nah, that's pretty good.

Posted by: the Joker and zombie Speedbump at December 03, 2015 01:41 AM (VO5mN)

665 Wait a minute... They Go Pro'd the fuckin massacre?

Really?

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:42 AM (AgTww)

666 The networks are feeling it and more people in the industry are acknowledging that they'll likely live to see the end of schedule broadcasts for all but a few types of content, such as local news that can be essential in an emergency that damages the wired infrastructure.

Everyone has always wished they could just pick what they wanted to watch when they wanted, anything they wanted anyway. This whole "wait til the day and hour and sit through the ads" thing sucked from the start. I am not going to schedule my life around your crappy show.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:42 AM (39g3+)

667 Cut my teeth on a Remington 1100 Special Field 20 Ga.
------------

My BIL has a Winchester Model 1400 in 20 ga.
It is about the softest shooter I know of.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:42 AM (9mTYi)

668 yup. they Gro Pro'd it

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:43 AM (zOTsN)

669 Hey look, Daily Mail has changed their stupid headline. Instead of Guns Kill 14 it now says "Husband And Wife's Party Massacre"

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:43 AM (Kqit+)

670 611 I just want to hear people say the following: What Trump said was incorrect.
If that's too hard, I'm willing to accept: There is no evidence for what Trump said and

Um pretty much everyone has agreed trump either exaggerated the numbers or got the thousands from video from the Middle East.

And then you tell us we need to admit there is no evidence for what trump said. We've given you the evidence & you don't like it. Don't like it so much that now Giuliani is misremembering too. And me for that matter.

You've completely contradicted yourself. You said yourself you thought he mixed up videos to get to thousands, then turn around & say there's no evidence of any celebrations.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 01:43 AM (hrqLp)

671 Wait a minute... They Go Pro'd the fuckin massacre?

Really?
Posted by: HillbillyKing
-----------------

Yup.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:43 AM (9mTYi)

672 #636

Proximity to vital defense industries such as aircraft manufacture was a factor. In much the same way the FBI had people who kept an eye on the car factories in Detroit that had switched over to making tanks and other military vehicles.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:43 AM (IdCqF)

673 604 #580 Was he the guy who was working in a studio nearby when he heard the noise, grabbed a camera, and ran out in time to catch the second plane going in, passing directly overhead?

No. The Naudet Brothers were making a documentary about then-FDNY probie Tony Benetatos. Jules Naudet captured AA Flight 11 hitting the North Tower while filming the FDNY's response to a reported gas leak. He continued to follow then-1st Battalion Chief Joseph Pfeiffer (now the head of the FDNY's Counterterrorism and Emergency Preparedness unit) for the rest of the day. Meanwhile, Gedeon Naudet filmed Flight 175 striking the South Tower, then returned to the firehouse and continued to film Benetatos.

*This is J. Naudet's footage of the collapse of the South Tower as felt in the North Tower: http://bit.ly/1NqDg1j

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at December 03, 2015 01:44 AM (YjDyJ)

674 jihadi went to Saudi Arabia and came back with a wif he had met online

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:44 AM (zOTsN)

675 I'm not sure this "show me a video of multiple thousands of New Jersey Muslims celebrating the fall of the Twin Towers or you must admit Trump is an unprincipled thug" argument is the best rhetorical hill to die on.

Yeah, of all the things to draw the line on Trump with, this seems extraordinarily bizarre.

And I must credit Amishdude with #BonnieAndKhalid on Twitter

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:44 AM (39g3+)

676 "Rhomboid, they are currently tearing out that refinery. It was
operational when I was in grade school.80s. The oilfields are still
pumping away."

Oil fields? Under the family ranch lands? Surveyed at public expense? Sure! And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't have been for those bratty kids and their dog!

Posted by: Governor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown at December 03, 2015 01:44 AM (noWW6)

677 wonder if he claims he was discriminated against at work because he was muslim
Posted by: ThunderB
---------------

Likely to be cast as 'Workplace Violence'.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:44 AM (9mTYi)

678 663 I dunno what to tell you Maet. I posted a link to a contemporary news report of Muslims celebrating on the roof of their apartment house in Jersey. No, they don't have video of them celebrating, but they do have video of the FBI arresting 8 men in that apartment and leading them out in cuffs. I've asked twice, and you haven't addressed the video. I'm a trained historian, and this is what we would call solid, first person documentation. I would cite it with complete confidence in any book or paper I was publishing. I dunno what more you can reasonably want.

Posted by: Weirddave at December 03, 2015 01:41 AM (N8hFs)

Actually I think that video of the men is the old footage of those responsible for the first WTC bombing.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:45 AM (zt+N6)

679 Maet's bugged out.

Massacre on go pro. Cumbaja.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 01:45 AM (4ihv2)

680
Maet, if you remove the words "thousands and thousands" from Trump's comment, it seems to be amply well-founded. That is, that he saw reports of Muslim "celebrations" in NJ/America on 9/11.

Have no idea, of course, of what actually happened. But people have unearthed many reports - TV, print - of this happening. Just today Breitbart added a NYC CBS affiliate report to the pile (video).

I could well be wrong and missing something, as I have hardly followed this closely from the outset. But I think the initial reaction, as I said above, was SOP rejection of Trump's statement as false and divisive,crude, xenophobic, blah blah blah. BUT NOT A SINGLE WORD OF THIS REACTION REFERRED TO "THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS". The reaction was to the entire idea of Muslims in American "celebrating" 9/11.

Yet, of course, it turns out that there WAS lots of *reportage* of this happening on/about 9/11. My favorite was the WaPo's "fact checker" missing HIS OWN PAPER's reports to this effect.

I'm not a "supporter" of anyone, incl. Trump, but I'll happily volunteer that "thousands and thousands" appears to be wrong, or an exaggeration, or something on that order. But I'll also point out that the "doubling down" of note here was not by the bombastic entrepreneur-turned-presidential candidate, but by the crude Soviet-style distortion machine known as "the press".

(note: I "support" Trump in the same way I'd "support" a grenade I tossed into a mud brick hut to sanitize the front room before entering to clear the structure - he's a weapon that I hope will be effective in clearing out some bad guys. My hopes of his achieving his potential to reach *my* goals are fading, but I view it all as an essentially lost cause in any case, so whatever)

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 01:45 AM (QDnY+)

681 Go Pro really adds a whole 'nother sick level.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:46 AM (Z/8dZ)

682 627 I've mentioned before, my favorite bird gun for upland game was my boyhood Fox Model B, side-by-side, 26" , Mod & Imp. cylinders. Also killed my first deer with it.
Posted by: Mike hammer
------

Oops, forgot. 20 Gauge.
Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (9mTYi)

Friend of mine had a Ted Williams bolt action .20 guage. That sucker shot like you were using heat-seeking pellets. Very accurate.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 03, 2015 01:46 AM (WWdgA)

683 632 Ok, it was probably not 1000 people. Trump is probably misremembering that detail.

Now will you admit that it is very likely that there were *some* people "tailgating"( WaPo's term) on their apartment as the towers fell?
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:31 AM (Z/8dZ)

I will accept this if you're also willing to stipulate that Trump did not actually see any NJ Muslims celebrating as the towers went down.

I will admit that it's probable that there were at least some Muslims celebrating in NJ - though I would place the likelihood of them doing it as the towers actually fell to be extremely low. The problem is that so far there's been no real evidence produced of this happening apart from vague reports and years-old memories. Without something more tangible I'm not willing to accept it as a fact.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:47 AM (wqVD1)

684 #659

The party shot up was for Health Department employees. The early reference to developmentally disabled clients was due to that being one of the primary functions in that building and reporters having little else to go on at that point. They'd rented out the space to the party organizers

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:47 AM (IdCqF)

685 495 It is objectively true that in the days following 9/11 there were news reports of mulims in New Jersey celebrating on rooftops.
That happened.
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:00 AM (Kqit+)

There were lots of reports during that time.

The question is whether the event reported actually happened.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:02 AM (wqVD1)

I'm sorry, Maet -- I'm normally one of your biggest fans, but that one blew the "moving the goalposts" circuit breakers. You've gone from "Trump had reason to believe this from what he has seen" to "this actually happened in exactly this way (and not as normal people would remember) with videotape". It's not Truthiness, it's Gotcha-ism.

Truthiness would be trying to push a Politically-Correct narrative against the Conventional Wisdom using made-up facts; Gotcha-ism would be trying to push a Politically-Correct narrative against the Conventional Wisdom by nitpicking irrelevant details in the Conventional Wisdom. Neither serves the truth.

The facts are that the West has welcomed thousands of anti-Western jihadis into their midst, has coddled them and encouraged their anti-Western tendencies, has not assimilated them in any meaningful way, and is taking casualties. You can argue all day as to whether there were two 9-11 celebrations in NJ or two million -- the underlying problem remains the same. And, yes, only Trump is talking about it in a meaningful way.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 01:48 AM (EzgxV)

686 You know the gun I most would like to own? A side-by-side 12 gauge shotgun, breach action. I just love those old cowboy guns. An old Winchester would be great too, even a modern replica. And a 1911, but a modern really well-made one, not an old army colt.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:48 AM (39g3+)

687 http://tinyurl.com/j3ap5ng

A lot of evidence there Maet.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:49 AM (R5HRU)

688
I will accept this if you're also willing to stipulate that Trump did not actually see any NJ Muslims celebrating as the towers went down.

If video of this ever does come out will you make a very public apology to Trump?

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:49 AM (zt+N6)

689 Maet, if you remove the words "thousands and thousands" from Trump's comment, it seems to be amply well-founded. That is, that he saw reports of Muslim "celebrations" in NJ/America on 9/11.

No. He said he saw the celebrations - not reports of Muslims celebrating. These are not the same thing. I would accept him backing off and saying that he actually saw reports of the celebrations. But that is not what he and his people has said.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:50 AM (wqVD1)

690 You know what I still don't get though...

Why did the shooters come back to where the cops were and basically engage them? I mean, I'm glad they didn't go somewhere else to hurt more people, but it just seems like if you're going to go all jihadi and you successfully escape from your first place, you'd either run away asap or go to another location to cause more trouble.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:50 AM (Z/8dZ)

691

so jihadi just married this chick, like within the last year and they have a baby? timelines arent matching up. must be some misreporting.. Wonder if SHE turned HIM

going to SA and coming back with a bride and then going jihadi within 6 months

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:50 AM (zOTsN)

692 I'm off to bed.

Keep the bloodshed to a minimum horde.

Friendly fire isn't good.

Posted by: thathalfrican at December 03, 2015 01:50 AM (R5HRU)

693 Maet, meet Gibbs.
Whap.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 01:50 AM (4ihv2)

694 The networks are feeling it and more people in the industry are acknowledging that they'll likely live to see the end of schedule broadcasts for all but a few types of content, such as local news that can be essential in an emergency that damages the wired infrastructure.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 01:39 AM (IdCqF)

I think that is incorrect. People need others to schedule shows for them. Most people can't look at a huge menu of movies and shows and pick anything good to watch. They need the programming. They need someone else to pick a schedule of shows for them to choose from.

The problem the network channels have is that they program shit. But their death won't be the death of programming, only the death of shitty programming. There are lots of people with huge music collections who still like to listen to the radio, either to hear new music that has been picked by some DJ whose taste align with theirs or to hear old music that they probably have but played in a certain schedule - a schedule taht they wouldn't have thought to play their own music but that they enjoy listening to.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:52 AM (zc3Db)

695 You know the gun I most would like to own? A side-by-side 12 gauge shotgun, breach action. I just love those old cowboy guns. An old Winchester would be great too, even a modern replica. And a 1911, but a modern really well-made one, not an old army colt.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor
------------

"Coach Guns" occupy a niche that has become popular. Several manufacturers make them. Generally 20" side-by-sides, with hammers.
Pic:
http://tinyurl.com/otlft4b

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 01:53 AM (9mTYi)

696 If video of this ever does come out will you make a very public apology to Trump?
Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 01:49 AM (zt+N6)

I will publicly admit that he was correct and I was wrong.

I don't think an apology is in order since I haven't really accused him of anything other than misremembering. Which is understandable given that the events in question are 15 years past.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:53 AM (wqVD1)

697 Mike, Thunder...

Appreciate the reply's.

The only level left is live streaming..... Only a matter of time.

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 01:53 AM (AgTww)

698 660 German Internment camps.

http://www.gaic.info/internment_camp.html
Posted by: Willy J. at December 03, 2015 01:40 AM (wHX4r)

Huh......

Grandmother was off-the-boat from Germany in the teens. She worked for Douglas Aircraft in Chicago, during WW big one.

So .... so much for white privilege, eh? Where do we go for reparations?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 03, 2015 01:54 AM (WWdgA)

699 so ISIS twitter accounts are taking credit for the attack allegedly

so did this woman turn him? a suicidal honey pot?

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:55 AM (zOTsN)

700 "I think that is incorrect. People need others to schedule shows for them. Most people can't look at a huge menu of movies and shows and pick anything good to watch. They need the programming. They need someone else to pick a schedule of shows for them to choose from."

*****

Gotta tell ya, I have a little problem with this paragraph as written. It sounds like a Bernie Sanders argument.

Could you please elaborate?

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:55 AM (OxOeA)

701 " though I would place the likelihood of them doing it as the towers actually fell to be extremely low"

WaPo said " In Jersey City, within hours of two jetliners' plowing into the World Trade Center, law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river."

That's pretty explicit. And unless Trump happened to be in Jersey (is that part of his story. I really don't know) he could not have seen it. However "within two hours" is mighty specific, no?

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:55 AM (Kqit+)

702 you know I have never seen Osama bi Ladens death photos but I believe he is dead

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 01:56 AM (zOTsN)

703 Yeah, Trump was wrong about seeing thousands of people celebrating in NJ.

Meat is wrong that there is no good evidence there were celebrations in NJ on 9-11.

Maet just can't admit it.

Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 01:57 AM (MQEz6)

704 Could you please elaborate?
Posted by: ManWithNoParty
-------------
The Ministry of Mandatory Controlled Viewing will be in touch.

Posted by: Bernie at December 03, 2015 01:57 AM (9mTYi)

705 "People need others to schedule shows for them"

Nah. Netflix + Hulu is great. Amazon for the few stragglers that don't get picked up by that net.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:58 AM (Kqit+)

706 Generally 20" side-by-sides, with hammers.

Sounds perfect. I would probably never use it for anything but display but they look so cool

Probably suck for skeet or anything useful.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:58 AM (39g3+)

707 Trump, by forcing people to remember the celebrations of death on
Sept 11, is also forcing people to remember other things, like Americans jumping to avoid
being burned to death, and, *that* is never shown or acknowledged, even
though there is tangible evidence that it actually happened.

imo,
it's not Trump saying that "thousands celebrated" that is driving
people batty, it's that Trump is forcing us to remember that
thousands were murdered and, by who.

Posted by: cind at December 03, 2015 01:59 AM (nRbbW)

708 Waaay past bedtime. I take solace in knowing that the MSM will be up all night, figuring the spin to put on this.

Posted by: Bernie at December 03, 2015 01:59 AM (9mTYi)

709 575 However, the larger political question is if Trump actually believes that it happened and based on the fact that there are news reports from the day claiming that it happened, it's pretty damn likely that he is not making things up but remembering real reports that really were broadcast and really were written.
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:06 AM (Kqit+)

Why do you keep bringing up reports? Trump said he actually saw thousands of Muslims celebrating in NJ as the towers went down. That's far, far more than vague reports passed on during a newscast.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:17 AM (wqVD1)

If you're hinging your critique on "personally saw" v. "saw media coverage of", you're way, way, way, way, way off into gotcha-ism land.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 01:59 AM (EzgxV)

710 People need others to schedule shows for them. Most people can't look at a huge menu of movies and shows and pick anything good to watch. They need the programming.

I suppose some folks are like that out there, but I doubt that its a very large number and is dwindling each year. In any case, services that suggest things for people when they turn on the TV are very likely to show up.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 01:59 AM (39g3+)

711 690 You know what I still don't get though...
Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 01:50 AM (Z/8dZ)

The guy in the water truck got the message out too fast for them.
The cops successfully created a tight perimeter around the area.
The terrorists rode round and round trying to find a way out.
As they were riding within the perimeter the cops laid an ambush for them.
Then they drove down ambush lane.

Making shots like that in a neighborhood... those shots looked pretty precise. No mention of strays.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 02:00 AM (4ihv2)

712 Crap. Off with septuagenarian socialist sock.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 02:00 AM (9mTYi)

713 625 This ran on TV once but now you have to pay for it. It's worth the cost.

The only copy currently on YouTube is very grainy and incomplete. Some people have managed to post shorter portions of it but YouTube keeps yanking the longer segments for copyright reasons. LiveLeak might have it in its entirety but I would have to watch all 6 segments ( http://bit.ly/1TmsmON ).

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at December 03, 2015 02:00 AM (YjDyJ)

714 689 No. He said he saw the celebrations - not reports of Muslims celebrating. These are not the same thing. I would accept him backing off and saying that he actually saw reports of the celebrations. But that is not what he and his people has said.
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:50 A

So now it's he didn't see it in person? I took it that he saw news reports, because I remember seeing news reports. And immediately thought, oh he's mixing the numbers up with the videos from the Middle East. I should give up & go to sleep. Chasing the moving goalpost this late would mean being awake all night.

And for the record: I think Trump is a dick. I like Cruz. But I'll say this, if the GOPe maneuvers Trump out of the nomination if he has the votes & puts up anyone other than Cruz, I'll vote trump 3rd party in a heartbeat.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 03, 2015 02:01 AM (hrqLp)

715 so this tootsie he picked up in Saudi Arabia within the last six months was a crack shot? she hit the range in SA?

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:01 AM (zOTsN)

716 It's been 30 years and we still don't have a bomb bot anything close to Johnny Five.....

That surprises me.

The bomb bots on the news tonight remind me of a suped up Big Trak....

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 02:02 AM (AgTww)

717 I'm sorry, Maet -- I'm normally one of your biggest fans, but that one blew the "moving the goalposts" circuit breakers. You've gone from "Trump had reason to believe this from what he has seen" to "this actually happened in exactly this way (and not as normal people would remember) with videotape". It's not Truthiness, it's Gotcha-ism.

Sorry - I will admit that the title of the link didn't really match the point I was trying to make and that during later discussions a second goal post made an appearance. I should have been more explicit about the two.

The two assertions in play are:

1) Is what Trump said true exactly as stated? I say no - and that even allowing for some 'fixups' on the details, it still is almost certainly untrue.
2) Did any Muslims actually publicly celebrate in NJ during 9/11? I think it's possible but the lack of any tangible evidence of it happening makes me suspect that it's really a myth.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:02 AM (wqVD1)

718 Coach Guns" occupy a niche that has become popular. Several manufacturers make them. Generally 20" side-by-sides, with hammers.
Pic:
http://tinyurl.com/otlft4b

Posted by: Mike hammer
****

I have been tempted to find one in 20 ga then (legally) cut it down Mad Max style. Maybe someday.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at December 03, 2015 02:02 AM (hVdx9)

719 Speaking of German POWs, there was a older German couple, Konrad was the husband that moved in the local area back in the early 90s, retired.

Konrad was a sailor on a U-boat back in WWII. They lost an engagement with some our subhunters and Konrad became a POW. I want to say he was in a camp in Georgia, but I'm not sure. Anyway, he liked this country so much from his experience *as a freakin' POW* that when he was repatriated, he immediately began working on immigrating here. Just think of that.

Anyway, he was an engineer with Daniel (big construction outfit here). He was a character -- he tried to live down what he thought was the American assumption that German's didn't have much of a sense of humor, and ended up overcompensating in some hilarious ways.

Anyway, he was at some meetup with some of the local guys and happened to run into a guy who served on on the very ships his U-boat fought with during that battle when he was captured. I watched as two old guys, who back then were trying to kill each other, start reminiscing about it.

The answered each other's questions about why they did what they did, to each other's best knowledge. It was like two war buddies, except on opposite sides.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 02:02 AM (dvuhZ)

720 "The terrorists rode round and round trying to find a way out.
As they were riding within the perimeter the cops laid an ambush for them."

Ah. Nice. Good job SBPD.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:03 AM (Kqit+)

721
First, thanks ThunderB for your continuously useful surveillance/sampling/highlighting of stuff happening out there. (some day I'll share my anecdote relating to the Geneva Conventions, updating thereof after 9/11, and inside dope from prior administration - for your JAG appreciation)

Second, thanks Miss80s for that 9/11 French documentary info.

Third, wow, so this IS a "terrorist" event? Not that I'm unaware of the problem (!!!), etc. It's just that it seemed/seems like such an unlikely profile. Obscure local govt. facility. Suburb. Meeting or Christmas party. Plus: masks, clear desire to escape - i.e. no martyrdom.

A f***ing county pool inspector with delusions of jihad? Wow.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 02:03 AM (QDnY+)

722 Horde, till next time.

Take care have a good one.

Posted by: HillbillyKing at December 03, 2015 02:04 AM (AgTww)

723 It's been 30 years and we still don't have a bomb bot anything close to Johnny Five.....

That surprises me.

Yeah robot technology seems to be in three categories:
1) Souped up versions of an RC car
2) Sex bots from Japan
3) Arms with a specific purpose that do repetitive work

And neither are anything remotely close to what anyone thinks of as "robots" in the real sense of the word.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 02:04 AM (39g3+)

724 So now it's he didn't see it in person? I took it that he saw news reports, because I remember seeing news reports. And immediately thought, oh he's mixing the numbers up with the videos from the Middle East. I should give up go to sleep. Chasing the moving goalpost this late would mean being awake all night.

No - that's why I included his actual quote early on. He says he saw the celebrating happen which is a stronger statement than he just saw reports of this.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:05 AM (wqVD1)

725 ") Did any Muslims actually publicly celebrate in NJ during 9/11? I think it's possible but the lack of any tangible evidence of it happening makes me suspect that it's really a myth."

Do you really think this report is intangible? I mean, this is pretty detailed.

"In Jersey City, within hours of two jetliners plowing into the World Trade Center, law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river."

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:05 AM (Kqit+)

726 No time to read all the comments. So, just in case it isn't clear to everyone:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471

"Farook’s father was shocked to learn of his son’s possible involvement in the attack.

“I haven’t heard anything,” the elder Syed Farook told the Daily News. “He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.”"

...

Longtime neighbors in Riverside were shocked to hear Farook could be involved with such a brutal attack.

“He was quiet but always polite,” Maria Gutierrez told The News. “Maybe two years ago he became more religious. He grew a beard and started to wear religious clothing. The long shirt that’s like a dress and the cap on his head.”

Which can only lead us to one conclusion: Workplace violence!

Posted by: zombie at December 03, 2015 02:06 AM (jBuUi)

727 695 You know the gun I most would like to own? A side-by-side 12 gauge shotgun, breach action. I just love those old cowboy guns. An old Winchester would be great too, even a modern replica. And a 1911, but a modern really well-made one, not an old army colt.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor

I just acquired Dad's Model 97 12 ga. 30" bbl. Exposed hammer pump. Like new condition, purchased in the early-mid 50's. Don't need a full choke shotgun, my Ithaca 51 Featherweight is hard to beat.

It may be a bit sacrilegious, but I am going to convert into an 18" bbl Trench gun. US Issue Model 97 trenchies were 20"bbl. Just two parts to buy and chop the barrel.

http://tinyurl.com/zx75k3g

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at December 03, 2015 02:06 AM (WWdgA)

728 606 With respect, I think you're being hyper-legalistic. I think a more reasonable interpretation of Trump's remark was that a significant segment of American-resident Muslims supported the 9/11 attacks, as evidenced by celebrations among some of them. And, frankly, given the widespread celebrations elsewhere - which I presume you don't doubt - it's inconceivable that such celebrations didn't take place here, too, among Muslims resident in America. Hell, I knew a Muslim in grad school who'd have been cheering his head off if he were in the country.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 03, 2015 01:12 AM (oKE6c)

I am being hyper-legalistic. Because so many people are being hyper-lawyer-weasely in trying to find some way of making Trump's statement be true when it wasn't.

I just want to hear people say the following: What Trump said was incorrect.

If that's too hard, I'm willing to accept: There is no evidence for what Trump said and he is likely incorrect.

I just do not see what is so hard about admitting that Trump probably misremembered what he claimed to have seen.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 01:25 AM (wqVD1)

If you see 10 different news reports of 200 people celebrating 9-11, is it irresponsible to think 2000 people celebrated 9-11?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 02:06 AM (EzgxV)

729 Maet's doing his Alan Colmes impression tonight.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 02:07 AM (4ihv2)

730 Maet, did you think Muslims in NJ celebrating 9-11 was a myth only after Trump made his remarks.

Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 02:08 AM (MQEz6)

731 I think it's possible but the lack of any tangible evidence of it happening makes me suspect that it's really a myth.

If 15 years from now, all video of people jumping from the Towers is scrubbed from the internet, will it become a myth?

Posted by: cind at December 03, 2015 02:08 AM (nRbbW)

732 1) Is what Trump said true exactly as stated? I say no - and that even allowing for some 'fixups' on the details, it still is almost certainly untrue.
$2) Did any Muslims actually publicly celebrate in NJ during 9/11? I think it's possible but the lack of any tangible evidence of it happening makes me suspect that it's really a myth.
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:02 AM (wqVD1)

******

If you have not yet seen ANY evidence of this, then I would suggest you will never in your life see any evidence of this, as you define it.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:09 AM (OxOeA)

733 Oh, and the terrorist's terror-moll also was Muslim -- Malik something or other. Riddled with bullets in the car like Bonnie and Clyde.

Reminiscent of Charles Starkweather and Caril Ann Fugate, but with more Allah and less Sheen.

Posted by: zombie at December 03, 2015 02:09 AM (jBuUi)

734 Wow, LA Times reporting that the office workers that the Jihadis shot had a baby shower for the couple several months ago.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at December 03, 2015 02:11 AM (Z7G74)

735 Seems like there's still one more guy out there they're looking for, but its hard to tell from the scattered info, rumors, and contradictions.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2015 02:12 AM (39g3+)

736 Worse if I refuse to admit that Trump embellished his comments or saying I really don't care if he did in this instance?

Posted by: Walter Freeman at December 03, 2015 02:12 AM (Jkzzm)

737 Re: the 150-year-old steamboat:

I have visited the Arabia Steamboat Museum, and it is fabulous. The best-kept secret in Kansas City. If you have a chance to go there, do not miss it. I guarantee you will love it.

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at December 03, 2015 02:13 AM (A/Q7Y)

738 I heard earlier that the third person they have in custody is his brother. we'll see

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:13 AM (zOTsN)

739 I don't like Trump's reluctance to admit he was wrong, but his refusal to concede the point to the f*cking media diminishes them.

Posted by: rokshox at December 03, 2015 02:13 AM (Ap82b)

740 What Trump said was not only plausible, but credible.
I don't see what all the fuss is about other than Trump not paying the usual PC lip service to Islam.

Posted by: navybrat at December 03, 2015 02:14 AM (ETxiG)

741
Maet, my last feeble contribution on the topic, but I don't think Trump (or anyone) saying they "saw" something in this context means they literally saw it, in person. So when he said he "saw" the events in question he surely meant he saw REPORTS about these events. Same as you and I would say we saw a play from a football game we didn't personally attend.

Such reports, as compiled in the Breitbart piece (thathalfrican may have linked it, I didn't pursue his tiny URL), were numerous.

So Trump saying, for example, that he "saw" the CBS NYC affiliate report by the anchor Guzman on the topic checks the box for "he saw it".

"Thousands and thousands" remains the only thing in question, and that's pretty clearly exaggeration/misremembering/hyperbole/sloppiness/evil cunning slander, take your pick.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 02:14 AM (QDnY+)

742 The free press Trump has received would bankrupt the Jebbie.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 02:15 AM (4ihv2)

743 I am looking at Jersey Cities records right now, but it does not appear to be searchable for specific arrests for that time period.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:15 AM (Z/8dZ)

744 "If you see 10 different news reports of 200 people celebrating 9-11, is it irresponsible to think 2000 people celebrated 9-11?"

Sadly, today's news is one report repeated fifty times by ten media outlets of twenty people in a tightly cropped shot. It is not intended to inform. It is intended to inflame.

Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 03, 2015 02:15 AM (5gSAY)

745 No, no I'm not. You asked for evidence of an all or none position on your side of this based on your own words.
I simply provided it.
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:37 AM (OxOeA)

No my position has been that if you claim that X happened, then you have the obligation to provide evidence that it did. There is no way to prove a negative.

Lack of any evidence of X does not prove that it did not happen (though it could possibly be inferred that it's unlikely to have happened). And it also does not mean that X can be accepted as a fact either. Which is my whole point.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:16 AM (wqVD1)

746 The free press Trump has received would bankrupt the Jebbie.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 02:15 AM (4ihv2)

****

Yep. He forces them to cover him for nothing.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:16 AM (OxOeA)

747

its interesting CAIR chose the western looking BIL to speak and not the jihadi daddy

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:17 AM (zOTsN)

748 Don't watch the new Batman V. Superman trailer unless you want some very big spoilers. Of course you probably won't be able to avoid it before the release.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 02:18 AM (zt+N6)

749 "No my position has been that if you claim that X happened, then you have the obligation to provide evidence that it did. "

Which we have.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:19 AM (Z/8dZ)

750 No my position has been that if you claim that X happened, then you have the obligation to provide evidence that it did. There is no way to prove a negative.

Lack of any evidence of X does not prove that it did not happen (though it could possibly be inferred that it's unlikely to have happened). And it also does not mean that X can be accepted as a fact either. Which is my whole point.

Posted by: Maetenloch

you have been given news reports contemporaneous with the event and mentions in newspaper articles at the time in addition to eyewitness statements

it is clear that only proof you will consider is video of the celebrants. You will accept no other proof

you are requiring far more than any court of law

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:19 AM (zOTsN)

751 Lack of any evidence of X does not prove that it did not happen (though it could possibly be inferred that it's unlikely to have happened). And it also does not mean that X can be accepted as a fact either. Which is my whole point.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:16 AM (wqVD1)

*****

You had a simple request. I fulfilled it.

I am going to let others comment here cuz I am getting tired of the freaking word salads on this topic.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:20 AM (OxOeA)

752 From the New York Post Sept 14. 2001

Here in New York, it was easy to get angry listening to Egyptians, Palestinians and the Arabs of nearby Paterson, N.J., celebrate as they received word of the murderous attack in New York and Washington. But Mayor Giuliani (who has been tireless and magnificent in this crisis) rightly warned New Yorker-ers that is would be wrong to take their anger our on the city's Arab and Muslim residents. Attacks on Arab-Americans in Paterson or elsewhere are utterly indefensible.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:20 AM (Z/8dZ)

753 I'll cede this -- on the actual day of 9/11/2001, it is unlikely that anyone knew for sure that muzzies were specifically responsible for the attacks. Much like today, it took awhile for detectives to work out exactly why it happened. More was known the day after.

But in the intervening days and years after 9/11, there have been countless fucking celebrations by leftists and muzzies right here in the US. Chickens come to roost? That fuckstick fake Indian professor from CO that wrote we had it coming? Farrakhan? Alwaki?

I bet I could come up with a thousand names of 9/11 supporters in the US since 9/11. Without breaking a sweat.

I'll also cede this -- Trump, in all his particulars, is wrong. Ben Carson initially backed up Trump's recollection, then recanted.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 03, 2015 02:20 AM (gyKtp)

754 Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper said: "Wow, LA Times reporting that the office workers that the Jihadis shot had a baby shower for the couple several months ago.

Not enough! Syed Farook was protesting his lack of paid family leave.

This wouldn't have happened if Bernie was president.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at December 03, 2015 02:21 AM (ZMZ2g)

755 the guy was an "environmental health specialist". he was very possibly driven by the malignant global warming extremist rhetoric as well as islam.

now that's a melange of hatreds.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 03, 2015 02:21 AM (WTSFk)

756 Also, regarding the shooting, I gotta wonder if someone at the party called the main office after the argument, and police were minimally aware of the situation by the time the shooters drove home and came back armed? Either that or the shooter never intended to flee?

I'm having troubles reconciling the timeline otherwise. Hard to believe the police were able to lock down a perimeter so quickly without the shooters getting onto one of the nearby highways first.

Posted by: Walter Freeman at December 03, 2015 02:21 AM (Jkzzm)

757 WSJ -- America at Obama's End

Whatever Mr. Obama promised in that famous first Inaugural Address, any sense of a nation united and raised up is gone. This isn't normal second-term blues. It's a sense of bust.

The formal measure of all this appeared last week with the release of the Pew Research poll, whose headline message is that trust in government is kaput. Forget the old joke about the government coming to "help." There's a darker version now: We're the government, and we're here to screw you.

Posted by: Tony "Scarface" Montana at December 03, 2015 02:22 AM (e8kgV)

758 I'll cede this -- on the actual day of 9/11/2001, it is unlikely that anyone knew for sure that muzzies were specifically responsible for the attacks. Much like today, it took awhile for detectives to work out exactly why it happened. More was known the day after.

no

no that isnt true. we knew by the time the second airplane hit

everybody knew it was islamic terrorism

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:22 AM (zOTsN)

759 NYPD Police Commissioner also claims to remember specific calls relating to muslim celebrators.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:22 AM (Z/8dZ)

760 When the plane hit the Pentagon, there was no doubt.

At least, not among the military.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 02:22 AM (zyIlW)

761 shouldn't the environmentalists be held to account?

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 03, 2015 02:22 AM (WTSFk)

762 Such reports, as compiled in the Breitbart piece (thathalfrican may have linked it, I didn't pursue his tiny URL), were numerous.

So Trump saying, for example, that he "saw" the CBS NYC affiliate report by the anchor Guzman on the topic checks the box for "he saw it".
"Thousands and thousands" remains the only thing in question, and that's pretty clearly exaggeration/misremembering/hyperbole/sloppiness/evil cunning slander, take your pick.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 02:14 AM (QDnY+)

Here is what Trump actually said:
'And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.'

'Watched' implies that he actually saw it as opposed to just seeing a report on it. Like I said before if he had backed off to just seeing or hearing a report about the celebrations, I'd have no real beef with it other than the hyperbole about thousands.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:23 AM (wqVD1)

763 717 I'm sorry, Maet -- I'm normally one of your biggest fans, but that one blew the "moving the goalposts" circuit breakers. You've gone from "Trump had reason to believe this from what he has seen" to "this actually happened in exactly this way (and not as normal people would remember) with videotape". It's not Truthiness, it's Gotcha-ism.

Sorry - I will admit that the title of the link didn't really match the point I was trying to make and that during later discussions a second goal post made an appearance. I should have been more explicit about the two.

The two assertions in play are:

1) Is what Trump said true exactly as stated? I say no - and that even allowing for some 'fixups' on the details, it still is almost certainly untrue.
2) Did any Muslims actually publicly celebrate in NJ during 9/11? I think it's possible but the lack of any tangible evidence of it happening makes me suspect that it's really a myth.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:02 AM (wqVD1)

And I'll grant you #1, while pointing out that it is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT. This wasn't a sworn deposition, this was an observation -- and the observation's point was accurate.

And I think #2 is reasonably blown -- there are plenty of media reports that there were such celebrations and anyone willing to grant the media a smidge of credibility should allow that it's blown.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 02:23 AM (EzgxV)

764 Watched' implies that he actually saw it as opposed to just seeing a report on it. Like I said before if he had backed off to just seeing or hearing a report about the celebrations, I'd have no real beef with it other than the hyperbole about thousands.
Posted by: Maetenloch

it is obvious that you have decided that the only acceptable proof is video of the celebrants

just say so, and realize you are requiring far more than any court of law

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:24 AM (zOTsN)

765 Hell, I was in the woods, and when the drills told us a second plane hit the WTC, then the Pentagon, even the greenest private knew we were going to war.

Just who, was uncertain.

Posted by: SMFH at December 03, 2015 02:25 AM (zyIlW)

766

I seem to remember video of Palestinians in Gaza, a lot of Palestinians in fact, maybe thousands, celebrating very publicly on 9/11.

I remember a few celebrations in the NY-NJ area, suggesting to me that for every 1 public celebrant, there were many who had the sense to keep quiet.

I remember the default Muslim position: "Religion of Peace, This isn't Islam, We fear the inevitable backlash, etc.", yet no real condemnation of the actions by CAIR.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 03, 2015 02:25 AM (FlRtG)

767 Via AoSHQ 2.0:

"Confidential NRSC memo leaked: GOP leaders urge Senate candidates to tap into Trumpism"

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 02:25 AM (9YDUz)

768 719 Speaking of German POWs, there was a older German couple, Konrad was the husband that moved in the local area back in the early 90s, retired.

Konrad was a sailor on a U-boat back in WWII. They lost an engagement with some our subhunters and Konrad became a POW. I want to say he was in a camp in Georgia, but I'm not sure. Anyway, he liked this country so much from his experience *as a freakin' POW* that when he was repatriated, he immediately began working on immigrating here. Just think of that.

Anyway, he was an engineer with Daniel (big construction outfit here). He was a character -- he tried to live down what he thought was the American assumption that German's didn't have much of a sense of humor, and ended up overcompensating in some hilarious ways.

Anyway, he was at some meetup with some of the local guys and happened to run into a guy who served on on the very ships his U-boat fought with during that battle when he was captured. I watched as two old guys, who back then were trying to kill each other, start reminiscing about it.

The answered each other's questions about why they did what they did, to each other's best knowledge. It was like two war buddies, except on opposite sides.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 02:02 AM (dvuhZ)

Back when there was a universal concept of "honor" that was more than the concept of "nation'.....

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 02:25 AM (EzgxV)

769 I just woke up. Whadda I miss?

Married with kid and lived with mother and brother. Wife the other shooter? So, how can you just abandoned your kid? Muslims really dont love their children.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 02:25 AM (iQIUe)

770 Politifacts (run by a lib, I know) ranks the statements of politcos for their truthiness. You know, 0 to 4 Pinnochios. In other words, there are degrees of distortion.

I'd give Trump's statement a 2, at worst.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 03, 2015 02:26 AM (gyKtp)

771 "'Watched' implies that he actually saw it as opposed to just seeing a report on it. "

I don't think so. I could say "I watched those jihadis get shot to bits today" and have that be a true statement even if I saw it on TV.

(Actually didn't watch it so it would be false, but the point stands for the sake of argument)

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:26 AM (Z/8dZ)

772 Troll alert!!!

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 02:27 AM (4ihv2)

773 Politifacts (run by a lib, I know) ranks the statements of politcos for their truthiness. You know, 0 to 4 Pinnochios. In other words, there are degrees of distortion.

I'd give Trump's statement a 2, at worst.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 03, 2015 02:26 AM (gyKtp)

*****

Sorry, at this blog we apparently now only deal in absolutes. It has to be a 0 or a 4. The rules, they has been changed.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:28 AM (OxOeA)

774 The dead suspects were dressed in "assault-style clothing" and were carrying assault-style weapons and handguns, Burguan said.

... President Obama immediately went into "assault-style" political rhetoric.
Meanwhile, Twitter responded with "assault-style" rejection of prayers for the the dead and injured.

Posted by: St Thomas More at December 03, 2015 02:28 AM (e8kgV)

775 Anyway, sorry for picking a fight. Grumpy today with the sick baby and the jihadi scum.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:30 AM (Z/8dZ)

776
Maet, I don't speak for anyone else here but assume most would happily agree that the "thousands" thing can be considered hyperbole.

And thus this issue is put into the "closed" file.

Dang, some right coast morons are burning the midnight biofuels here. If they are still here, maybe they can answer a dumb gun question. Scheming to get the Comander in Chief/House (CINCHOUSE), as a SEAL buddy calls the spouse, interested in shooting trap. She did OK with my Mossberg 500 but aside from the "fit" problem (thing is stock, no shims or attempt at fitting) she was botheredby the weight. Would a 20 guage be an option here? As in, can you shoot trap with 20 guage? (hey, back off, I said it was a stupid question)

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 02:32 AM (QDnY+)

777 you have been given news reports contemporaneous with the event and mentions in newspaper articles at the time in addition to eyewitness statements
it is clear that only proof you will consider is video of the celebrants. You will accept no other proof
you are requiring far more than any court of law
Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:19 AM (zOTsN)

No. I'd like to see a police report. Or a picture. Or some video. Or even a newspaper article with an actual name or address of the incident. Something above just repeated hearsay.

Look - if it's as well known of an event as everyone thinks, then there must some tangible evidence of it out there, right? And if there's not, then why are you so sure that it actually happened - and why should I be expected to simply accept it as a known fact?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:33 AM (wqVD1)

778 So dead terrorist wife was a hot russian woman? not sure why she ended up with him and stuck in San Berdoo.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 02:34 AM (iQIUe)

779 jihadis online dating profile said he liked religious books and shooting at the range

he picked up his wife in SA and they have a six month old baby

Posted by: ThunderB at December 03, 2015 02:34 AM (zOTsN)

780 Troll Alert!
Alan Colmes has not gone to bed yet.

Maybe that's the problem. Alan has not been bedded.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 02:36 AM (4ihv2)

781 No. I'd like to see a police report. Or a picture. Or some video. Or even a newspaper article with an actual name or address of the incident. Something above just repeated hearsay.

Look - if it's as well known of an event as everyone thinks, then there must some tangible evidence of it out there, right? And if there's not, then why are you so sure that it actually happened - and why should I be expected to simply accept it as a known fact?

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:33 AM (wqVD1)

*****

All right, final time here. Do you mean as Trump described it, or whether this happened at all?

Please be fucking incredibly specific with your answer.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:37 AM (OxOeA)

782 758 >> everybody knew it was islamic terrorism

Really? We had ruled out Blofeld and agents of CHAOS fer sure, fer sure, after just a few hours? Most had no doubt, assuredly, but that isn't the same as sure.

9/11 8:30 pm - President Bush addresses the nation, calling the attacks "evil, despicable acts of terror" and declaring that America, its friends and allies would "stand together to win the war against terrorism."

hmmm, that word islamic or that other word, muslim, seems curiously absent. I'm just saying that certainty took maybe a day or two.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 03, 2015 02:40 AM (gyKtp)

783
ThunderB, wow. I esp. like your point about the wife - did she pick up her rifle skills back in the maklmatu (Kingdom)? Unlikely.

Wonder what range they used. If they lived in Corona, then maybe Rahaague's, where I used to shoot steel matches. But if they lived in Redlands (I've now seen/heard both residence locations on regional radio), then maybe Angeles? CalGuns will probably have a lively, if somewhat deranged, discussion on this very point.The scum might have been known to some range officers as a regular.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 02:40 AM (QDnY+)

784
https://www.facebook.com/tatiana.gigliotti.7

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 02:41 AM (iQIUe)

785 All right, final time here. Do you mean as Trump described it, or whether this happened at all?
Please be fucking incredibly specific with your answer.
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:37 AM (OxOeA)

In this case we are talking about assertion #2 - did Muslims publicly celebrate in NJ on 9/11? [In particular on an apartment rooftop but potentially in other incidents too]

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:41 AM (wqVD1)

786 Oh that article about putin posted at the very beginning of the thread is definitely a must read!

I'll put that link in my sig now since I derailed so much of the conversation.

We are so boned.

Posted by: Lauren at December 03, 2015 02:41 AM (Kqit+)

787 Gotta tell ya, I have a little problem with this paragraph as written. It sounds like a Bernie Sanders argument.

That's low

Could you please elaborate?

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 01:55 AM (OxOeA)

Programming shows or music is a talent. Someone can have a full library of every show and movie around but be unable to decide which one they want to watch at any particular time. Having access to programs is not enough for most people. Do you not know anyone who has a movie on DVD but never watches it .. but is happy as a clam to watch it when it comes on cable?

I'm not saying that people need to be led or anything of the sort. I'm saying that programming is a skil that people will always pay for, when they find someone whose programming jives with their tastes.

Then there is always the issue of new material. Someone whose tastes align with mine, say, is someone whose programming I appreciate to find new shows that I will probably like. If our tastes align well then it saves me a ton of time watching crap that I won't like (which I do quite a bit, at least for the first 20 or 30 minutes).

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 02:43 AM (zc3Db)

788 777,

Let's say someone prduces such a video. Should they then have to somehow certify the video is authentic or will you just believe them when we say it is what you seek?

You dg this hole and now you have to stand in it.

Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 02:44 AM (MQEz6)

789 Really? We had ruled out Blofeld and agents of CHAOS fer sure, fer sure, after just a few hours? Most had no doubt, assuredly, but that isn't the same as sure.
9/11 8:30 pm - President Bush addresses the nation, calling the attacks "evil, despicable acts of terror" and declaring that America, its friends and allies would "stand together to win the war against terrorism."
hmmm, that word islamic or that other word, muslim, seems curiously absent. I'm just saying that certainty took maybe a day or two.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 03, 2015 02:40 AM (gyKtp)

I think by the second plane it was clear it was terrorism of some kind and Islamic terrorists of some variety were the most likely suspects - but I don't it was considered a sure thing until the next day when the government had some evidence linking the hijackers to Al Qaeda.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:45 AM (wqVD1)

790 In this case we are talking about assertion #2 - did Muslims publicly celebrate in NJ on 9/11? [In particular on an apartment rooftop but potentially in other incidents too]
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:41 AM (wqVD1)

*****

In that case, you have gotten what should be more than enough evidence right here in this very thread. The choice not to see or acknowledge it is up to you.

You are using 2015 standards for a 2001 event.

I will go back to "Just. Wow." And be done with this discussion.

Have a good night.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:45 AM (OxOeA)

791 Nearly 800 comments and far too much of it is about parsing a statement by Donald Trump.

This thread needs boobies.

Here, I'll start:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/oyfkfm4

Posted by: The Indifferent Hat at December 03, 2015 02:46 AM (vBeA5)

792 heavy.com that does those 5 fast facts pages had her photo up but now they took it down. maybe, they dont think it is reliable.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 02:46 AM (iQIUe)

793 785 All right, final time here. Do you mean as Trump described it, or whether this happened at all?
Please be fucking incredibly specific with your answer.
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:37 AM (OxOeA)

In this case we are talking about assertion #2 - did Muslims publicly celebrate in NJ on 9/11? [In particular on an apartment rooftop but potentially in other incidents too]

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:41 AM (wqVD1)

Overall, Trump was more accurate than not in an off-the-cuff answer. Whether it was written as a research paper with footnotes or legally sworn as in a deposition is immaterial. The MSM would love to seize on it as a reason that Trump is incompetent, because "gotcha!"

SMFH -- it isn't worth the time already spent.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 02:48 AM (EzgxV)

794 Let's say someone prduces such a video. Should they then have to somehow certify the video is authentic or will you just believe them when we say it is what you seek?
You dg this hole and now you have to stand in it.
Posted by: eman at December 03, 2015 02:44 AM (MQEz6)

If it looked legit for the time and place and didn't have any obvious signs of being faked, then sure I'd be willing to accept as corroborative proof that some Muslims did indeed publicly celebrate in NJ on 9/11.

I'm just asking for something more than old memories and non-detailed news reports at the time.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:51 AM (wqVD1)

795 Sources say Redlands home was "IED factory"

Yeah, but Trump said Girl Scout Cookies are made with real Girl Scouts

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 02:51 AM (9YDUz)

796 The Brits are bombing the Islamic State, if anyone cares. In the Telegraph and Independent if not in US media.

Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 03, 2015 02:51 AM (5gSAY)

797 What this thread needs is an apology from Maet.
Folks here, yeah, I'm a lurker, have been far too polite and patient. If he were not here with status he would have been out on his ear.

Posted by: Ralph at December 03, 2015 02:52 AM (4ihv2)

798 #694

YouTube has already shown the answer to that, along with numerous other kinds of content sites. Curated interests of infinite depth can be easily done on streaming systems. SiriusXM satellite radio already reaches for this with their vast selection of channel but are still limited compared to what a streamer can do.

As they used to say in the Royal Society, "Astronomy advances by funerals." The cord cutters are mainly the youngest most sought after demographic, which is why the networks are distressed. They're fine with choosing content for themselves, whether it's one episode a night or binge watching. Netflix has distinguished it self from traditional schedules by releasing their exclusive content an entire season at a time.

Schedule broadcasting has been with us less than a century, starting with the advent of commercial radio. The nature of its delivery was determined by the technology, not by the consumer's choice. Do you listen to podcasts regularly? If so, do you only listen to them live or when it is convenient? For the younger segment of the population, ALL content falls into that same category. The kids who were born around the time the VCR hit the market (not counting some of the abortive earlier attempts like CartraVision) are now entering middle-age. Those born when VHS became ubiquitous are pushing thirty. Some of the kids who got an Atari 2600 during its first Christmas are grandparents now.

These people don't think about content the way we do because they didn't grow up in our world. They are the ones starting to steer the market now and their influence will only increase.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 02:53 AM (IdCqF)

799 This is all Hamilton vs Burr territory. We do not want to go there.

This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we will be lucky not to get Yokoed.

Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at December 03, 2015 02:53 AM (ccNyn)

800 'Watched' implies that he actually saw it as opposed to just seeing a report on it.
----
It's ironic for someone so annoyed with Trump's inability to admit any mistakes, yet doesn't recognize the same in oneself in this instance, to the point of absurdity.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 02:54 AM (MbrzC)

801 The Brits are bombing the Islamic State, if anyone cares. In the Telegraph and Independent if not in US media.
Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 03, 2015 02:51 AM (5gSAY)

****

Awesome. They need killin' and we sure as shit aren't going to do it under Preezy McMuzzyPants.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:54 AM (OxOeA)

802 768: Konrad said the food at the POW camp was much better than anything he had in the German navy. He said he actually didn't want to leave when the war was over. He wanted to stay. Somehow, and I don't remember if he explained it or not, he interacted with some of the local American population, and just loved them. The war was over for him and all his fellow prisoners he said.

It wasn't any harsh conditions. They were guarded and watched and all that, but he said escape didn't even occur to them, they had it so good.

And about honor. He talks about how well treated they were once they surrendered. Full dignity. He really admired his captain, and even showed me some pictures he had of the guy. He was older, of course, and had died years before. Anyway, he talked of how the captain was afforded full honors by the American crew and officers. Our guys, included the commanding officer on the ship that took them all saluted the captain and even "piped him" aboard or whatever they do.

He was the captain of a ship, a worthy foe, and was accorded the full treatment as such.

Konrad said he remembered thinking, this isn't gonna be so bad at all. And it wasn't.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 03, 2015 02:54 AM (dvuhZ)

803 The year is 2015, at least for about another month.
Photography is no longer "proof" of anything. Hasn't been for 50 years.
Neither is video.
Neither is audio.
All can be tampered with, or manufactured from scratch.

Posted by: navybrat at December 03, 2015 02:54 AM (ETxiG)

804 796 The Brits are bombing the Islamic State, if anyone cares. In the Telegraph and Independent if not in US media.

Posted by: Gunther Hoenaker at December 03, 2015 02:51 AM (5gSAY)
---
Finally some good news to head to bed after hearing.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 02:54 AM (MbrzC)

805 I saw brit lefties in the UK going nuts on twitter so that must be why. Bomb away!

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 02:55 AM (iQIUe)

806 Billions and billions - Carl Sagan

Goodnight all. This has been at least as good as Thanksgiving dinner.

Posted by: Mike hammer, etc., etc. at December 03, 2015 02:56 AM (9mTYi)

807 Overall, Trump was more accurate than not in an off-the-cuff answer. Whether it was written as a research paper with footnotes or legally sworn as in a deposition is immaterial. The MSM would love to seize on it as a reason that Trump is incompetent, because "gotcha!"
SMFH -- it isn't worth the time already spent.
Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 02:48 AM (EzgxV)

See I would rate it as more wrong than right since he was off in more than just a detail or two. But I could live with that if he hadn't decided to also double down on his statement being completely true in all details.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:56 AM (wqVD1)

808 I salute Maet's skepticism -- we live in a World of Lies. I question his designation of relevance. I do not believe we can accept such from the Government or the Press.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 02:57 AM (EzgxV)

809 Suspicious neighbor didn't report fearing being called racist. LUN

Posted by: rokshox at December 03, 2015 02:57 AM (Ap82b)

810 See I would rate it as more wrong than right since he was off in more than just a detail or two. But I could live with that if he hadn't decided to also double down on his statement being completely true in all details.
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:56 AM (wqVD1)

****

My irony meter just blew the hell out of its Fetzer valve.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:58 AM (OxOeA)

811 My irony meter just blew the hell out of its Fetzer valve.
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 02:58 AM (OxOeA)

I simply do not get why you have such a hard time understanding my comments on the matter. I think I've been pretty clear on what my complaint is.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:01 AM (wqVD1)

812 non-detailed news reports at the time.

as compared to current detailed news reports that are trustworthy.

Posted by: cind at December 03, 2015 03:01 AM (nRbbW)

813 I simply do not get why you have such a hard time understanding my comments on the matter. I think I've been pretty clear on what my complaint is.
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:01 AM (wqVD1)

****

OK, here we go:

Trump has an absolute position here. He is wrong.

You have an absolute position here. You are wrong

Neither of you will admit this.

Ya feeling it now? Seeing the irony?

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 03:04 AM (OxOeA)

814 Ace was tweeting about 50 min ago.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 03:05 AM (iQIUe)

815 We will argue on the blogs. We will argue via email, and post commentary on the news site. We will argue around the water cooler and over the cubical dividers. We will argue at the coffee shop and the grocery.

We will argue on the street. And we will never ever stop arguing, because if we were to agree then the next argument would be what to do about it.

Posted by: Dunestone Birchill at December 03, 2015 03:05 AM (5gSAY)

816 Speaking of grizzly sex, explore dot com has all the live cams on orcas, sharks and so forth, but their live cams on Grizzly bears are very interesting and occasionally funny.

One particular male would not give up his pursuit of an unenthusiastic female. He spent hours dogging the poor female around. Last seen, she had tried losing him in the river, but to no avail. His strategy seemed to a war of attrition to wear her down into giving up out of sheer weariness.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at December 03, 2015 03:06 AM (6gEkE)

817 So just so we're all clear. Maet is willing to believe some blog who's source is the New York Times. With a headline he chose (He did not copy the headline of the post at the blog.) All based on new reports of an agenda driven, while ignoring reports from the days immediate following 9/11 as not being worthwhile.

But the NYTs is totes believable.

Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 03:06 AM (zt+N6)

818 Bandera on Fox News repeating the "355 mass shootings this year" crap.

Posted by: rokshox at December 03, 2015 03:09 AM (Ap82b)

819 #782

As I recall it, once they ran the names on the passenger lists a pattern became fairly obvious. The phone calls from Flight 93 clinched it. It was understood they had a hijacking situation before the first tower was hit and were looking for likely perpetrators from the lists. The suicide crashes were what made it different from past hijackings.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 03:09 AM (IdCqF)

820 Trump has an absolute position here. He is wrong.
You have an absolute position here. You are wrong
Neither of you will admit this.
Ya feeling it now? Seeing the irony?
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 03:04 AM (OxOeA)

No. Not really at all.

Trump made a statement. I say this statement was incorrect as stated. (And off in more than just a single detail)

I'm not quite sure what position you believe I have but since you think it's wrong, please explain why it is.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:09 AM (wqVD1)

821 Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Posted by: The Goalposts at December 03, 2015 03:11 AM (TrVLA)

822 #802

I was trying to find the story of a particular German POW who came to like the Scottish village he was kept in so much he stayed long after he was free to go and left a considerable sum of money to the village in his will.

I couldn't find it but there was mention in one piece that around 24,000 German POWs in the UK chose to stay after they were released.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 03:13 AM (IdCqF)

823 So, how does it work? Does some head leftard send out a bat signal and every jornolista start pounding out the same meme? They are still ranting about "thoughts and prayers".

Someone pointed out that they want a repeal to the second amendment which is never the fck going to happen and a waste of bandwidth to call for. So, who are the ineffectual twats? Not the religious people.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 03:14 AM (iQIUe)

824 I'm not quite sure what position you believe I have but since you think it's wrong, please explain why it is.
Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:09 AM (wqVD1)

****

*Sigh*

I already did this upthread. It was with regards to your assertion that if it did not happen the way Trump described it, it did not happen at all.

You may now go upthread to read what I already typed.

Jesus Christ....!

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 03:15 AM (OxOeA)

825 Clearly the only way we will ever resolve this issue is to convene a three day conference at some modestly comfortable venue where we can have working groups of experts from all areas, both public and private, academics, and political leaders. Where we can examine closely the available evidence, and find an agreeable consensus that all interested parties can sign onto.

This is the way western civilization solves these difficult problems, through negotiations, reasoned debate and fact.

Posted by: Dunestone Birchill at December 03, 2015 03:15 AM (5gSAY)

826 Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Posted by: The Goalposts at December 03, 2015 03:11 AM (TrVLA)

******

Yep. Movin right along.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 03:16 AM (OxOeA)

827
BTW, the organization behind that mosque was "The Cordoba Group" ... a name whose meaning escaped 99.7% of Americans, it seems.Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at December 03, 2015 01:23 AM (zc3Db)
----
Does that mean the prayer mats were going to be made with rich, corinthian leather?

Posted by: Darth Randall at December 03, 2015 03:16 AM (KlVdw)

828 Don't forget the hookers and blow.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 03, 2015 03:16 AM (IdCqF)

829
publius, thanks for those anecdotes about the German POW.

Not hard to imagine how Konrad met local Americans - in many situations the German POWs were essentially on "work release" status, working generally in agriculture or other day-labor jobs in local communities.

There's a famous (and, I think, true) story about German officers eating with their "guards" in a whites-only restaurant in a southern state - the point usually being made about their status (enemy prisoners) being above that of Americans of the wrong complexion.

And many many German POWs stayed after the war (why the hell not?). Or, as Konrad, were repatriated and did nothing but try to get back.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 03, 2015 03:16 AM (QDnY+)

830 807 Overall, Trump was more accurate than not in an off-the-cuff answer. Whether it was written as a research paper with footnotes or legally sworn as in a deposition is immaterial. The MSM would love to seize on it as a reason that Trump is incompetent, because "gotcha!"
SMFH -- it isn't worth the time already spent.
Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 02:48 AM (EzgxV)

See I would rate it as more wrong than right since he was off in more than just a detail or two. But I could live with that if he hadn't decided to also double down on his statement being completely true in all details.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 02:56 AM (wqVD1)

Flip it upside-down and it will become clear. There is a wisdom in the People, and we have determined that the Academy and the Press are compromised. Not being academics or journalists, what we know is not beautifully composited or as formal as an essay. Trump speaks to what the People know -- we are importing trouble, we are selling-out citizens in favor of immigrants, celebration of 9-11 is wrong -- without waiting for position papers and peer-reviewed research to back it up.

Attacks on Trump that rely on peer-review, beautiful speech, or footnotes are (a) irrelevant, and (b) counterproductive -- because they relegate the attacker to being an anti-Trump dork.

Believe it or not, I'm not the world's biggest Trump-o-phile....but if The Powers That Be's biggest argument against him is a count of the documented celebrating 9-11 Muslims, they are going to get slaughtered, and will amply deserve to be.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:18 AM (EzgxV)

831 817 So just so we're all clear. Maet is willing to believe some blog who's source is the New York Times. With a headline he chose (He did not copy the headline of the post at the blog.) All based on new reports of an agenda driven, while ignoring reports from the days immediate following 9/11 as not being worthwhile.
But the NYTs is totes believable.
Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 03:06 AM (zt+N6)

No we're not clear at all on this.

I do accept the statements by John J. Farmer Jr given in the article since he was in one of the best positions at the time to know if the reports were true or not. And his knowledge goes beyond mere vague reports that appeared on the news at the time. Now the NYT may manipulate the news by omission and selection of stories but they almost never just make up shit out of whole cloth. So I'm willing to believe that Farmer actually said what he's reported to have said.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:21 AM (wqVD1)

832 Ain't this place gonna be fun after the brokered convention...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 03:22 AM (9YDUz)

833 Duel. Only way to settle this dispute. Set for New Jersey (no dueling in New York). Weapons will be high capacity pie shooters (we have tried words and it has not worked). Name your seconds.

Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at December 03, 2015 03:23 AM (ccNyn)

834 A duel?
Too easy.

A duet.
Now, THERE's a challenge.

Posted by: navybrat at December 03, 2015 03:25 AM (ETxiG)

835 831 817 So just so we're all clear. Maet is willing to believe some blog who's source is the New York Times. With a headline he chose (He did not copy the headline of the post at the blog.) All based on new reports of an agenda driven, while ignoring reports from the days immediate following 9/11 as not being worthwhile.
But the NYTs is totes believable.
Posted by: buzzion at December 03, 2015 03:06 AM (zt+N6)

No we're not clear at all on this.

I do accept the statements by John J. Farmer Jr given in the article since he was in one of the best positions at the time to know if the reports were true or not. And his knowledge goes beyond mere vague reports that appeared on the news at the time. Now the NYT may manipulate the news by omission and selection of stories but they almost never just make up shit out of whole cloth. So I'm willing to believe that Farmer actually said what he's reported to have said.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:21 AM (wqVD1)

Please note that we're trying to talk to you because we don't hold you in the complete contempt we hold the NYT. And, furthermore, we are willing to believe that they "make up shit out of whole cloth" more often than not -- and consider anyone that believes otherwise delusional. The only time anyone can believe the NYT is when (a) it can be factually demonstrated in a reproducible setting, or (b) when it is contrary to The Narrative.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:28 AM (EzgxV)

836 Sweet Baby Jesus who handed out the corncobs? And more to the point who installed them?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 03, 2015 03:28 AM (bLnSU)

837 Great Moments in Commie Planning: When China Wiped Out the Common Sparrow And Nearly Starved Itself

Wow. I read Flashbak daily (great site) and I had almost posted that link here yesterday. Great minds and all that.

(Personally, I like sparrows. The little round-bellied chirpheads always seem so happy.)

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 03, 2015 03:31 AM (HMt16)

838 I get the feeling that the San Bernardino shooters were planning for something bigger, probably in concert with others, but that Farook got pissed after being told to leave the party and jumped the gun, so as to speak.

Posted by: The Unsnapped Hat at December 03, 2015 03:34 AM (vBeA5)

839 I already did this upthread. It was with regards to your assertion that if it did not happen the way Trump described it, it did not happen at all.
You may now go upthread to read what I already typed.
Jesus Christ....!
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at December 03, 2015 03:15 AM (OxOeA)

But I never said that. I really think you're mixing up my arguments over whether 1) what Trump said was correct as stated or not and 2) did any Muslims celebrate in NJ on 9/11.

It's quite possible for 1) to be false yet 2) to be true. However my second point is that no non-hearsay evidence for 2) has ever been produced for so we shouldn't accept it as a known fact. Which means it can't also be used to partially justify some of Trump's statement in 1).

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:34 AM (wqVD1)

840 832 Ain't this place gonna be fun after the brokered convention...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 03:22 AM (9YDUz)

I'm too lazy to look it up -- was a brokered convention one of the last acts of the Whigs?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:35 AM (EzgxV)

841 833 - in Weehawken, Aaron and Alexander style.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 03, 2015 03:35 AM (MbrzC)

842 The reporter in that CBS vid says it doesn't vindicate Trump, describing it as an early report based on sources that turned out to be wrong, although he thinks there probably were celebrations, so even Trumps claim of vindication is, at best, politely put as exaggeration http://preview.tinyurl.com/zmrxp9x

Posted by: All Teh Meh at December 03, 2015 03:36 AM (iiDhh)

843 Please note that we're trying to talk to you because we don't hold you in the complete contempt we hold the NYT. And, furthermore, we are willing to believe that they "make up shit out of whole cloth" more often than not -- and consider anyone that believes otherwise delusional. The only time anyone can believe the NYT is when (a) it can be factually demonstrated in a reproducible setting, or (b) when it is contrary to The Narrative.
Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:28 AM (EzgxV)

Okay then in that case we're simply unable to discuss anything reported anywhere in the MSM - which is really most of the news.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:41 AM (wqVD1)

844 I continue to stand by my critique of Trutherism -- where the Narrative is more important than the facts -- v. Gotcha-ism, where the niggly details are more important than the substance that contradicts the Narrative. The relentless spin is more supportive of nihilism than the Narrative, and is losing traction.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:41 AM (EzgxV)

845
I'm too lazy to look it up -- was a brokered convention one of the last acts of the Whigs?
Posted by: cthulhu

Which election?

The Whigs pretty much ended themselves with the 1850 compromise.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 03:43 AM (9YDUz)

846 If you're hinging your critique on "personally saw" v. "saw media
coverage of", you're way, way, way, way, way off into gotcha-ism land.

I think the conversation has about exhausted the points to be made.

Maet wants Trump's words to be held to a certain standard, and others don't hold Trump to that standard.

There's a bit of rhetoric vs. dialectic here. Is 80% truthiness good enough? How do you prove what Trump actually saw, to say that the remaining 20% of the claim is inarguably wrong?

Trump's not likely to back down on the statement, and I don't think anyone who hates the Muslim infiltration and subversion of this country is going to hold it against him.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at December 03, 2015 03:45 AM (1D4Ef)

847 Washington Post

http://preview.tinyurl.com/h3jefo9

The motives behind the mass shooting - the 355th in the U.S. this year - are still unclear.

were four hours of terror that brought the city of San Bernardino to a standstill.

One of the big questions that will come up repeatedly is - Is this terrorism? said David Bow�dich, assistant director in charge of the FBI's Los Angeles office. . .

Posted by: Dunestone Birchill at December 03, 2015 03:45 AM (5gSAY)

848 Ain't this place gonna be fun after the brokered convention...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 03:22 AM (9YDUz)

I'm too lazy to look it up -- was a brokered convention one of the last acts of the Whigs?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:35 AM (EzgxV)

The thing is that the delegates will be bound only on the first vote. It makes sense for candidates to keep in and try to get delegates personally loyal to them selected... even if those delegates are required to vote for someone else on the first vote.

Posted by: The Brokered Hat at December 03, 2015 03:46 AM (vBeA5)

849 843 Please note that we're trying to talk to you because we don't hold you in the complete contempt we hold the NYT. And, furthermore, we are willing to believe that they "make up shit out of whole cloth" more often than not -- and consider anyone that believes otherwise delusional. The only time anyone can believe the NYT is when (a) it can be factually demonstrated in a reproducible setting, or (b) when it is contrary to The Narrative.
Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:28 AM (EzgxV)

Okay then in that case we're simply unable to discuss anything reported anywhere in the MSM - which is really most of the news.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:41 AM (wqVD1)

Yay! We have some common ground!!!

The MSM is totally-in on The Narrative. ANYTHING it reports in support of The Narrative can be assumed to be an outright lie. If they reported that the sun rose in the East, I wouldn't automatically believe it if I didn't roust my ass up at 6 AM with a compass.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:48 AM (EzgxV)

850
Farook showed up at the Christmas Party and saw that they were serving ham and flipped out.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 03:49 AM (iQIUe)

851 Maet wants Trump's words to be held to a certain standard, and others don't hold Trump to that standard.

But only because Trump himself doubled down afterwards and asserted that every detail was in fact correct. I could accept the hyperbole as part of his style and its use to make an overall point at a campaign event. But when he denied that it's even hyperbole, I get a bit irked.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:53 AM (wqVD1)

852 Farook showed up at the Christmas Party and saw that they were serving ham and flipped out.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 03:49 AM (iQIUe)

That's probably close to the truth. It seems that he and the wife had been building bombs and stockpiling... as if they were going to coordinate with something bigger. But he was kicked out of the Christmas party, got really pissed, and jumped the gun on Jihad.

Posted by: The Planning Hat at December 03, 2015 03:53 AM (vBeA5)

853 The MSM is totally-in on The Narrative. ANYTHING it
reports in support of The Narrative can be assumed to be an outright
lie.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:48 AM (EzgxV)

====and strangely enough repeated paychecks are involved. It is almost like someone(s) are paying for that.

Posted by: jc at December 03, 2015 03:55 AM (iRJ+A)

854 Farook showed up at the Christmas Party and saw that they were serving ham and flipped out.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang!

Nah, only slightly more believable would be that he saw the listing of a Christmas party rather than a 'holiday party,' and planned for the attack.

20 min. planning for that shit is a too much of a stretch.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 03:59 AM (9YDUz)

855 851 Maet wants Trump's words to be held to a certain standard, and others don't hold Trump to that standard.

But only because Trump himself doubled down afterwards and asserted that every detail was in fact correct. I could accept the hyperbole as part of his style and its use to make an overall point at a campaign event. But when he denied that it's even hyperbole, I get a bit irked.

Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:53 AM (wqVD1)

Here's the thing -- if you were in a sanitized room with The Donald and asked him this off the record....he might agree with you. But with the majority of Americans saying "Fuck The Media", there's no room for a nuanced conversation -- and what's the Reader's Digest Version? Double-down. It isn't a fault in Trump, it's the zeitgeist.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 03:59 AM (EzgxV)

856 I'm starting to wonder if there is a hair trigger pre set in Islam with the constant anti everything else that just makes a percentage of Muzzies
go ape shit.
Good morning horde

Posted by: Skip at December 03, 2015 04:02 AM (E8oTQ)

857
I find it hard to believe he could talk his wife into a suicide mission and into making their young daughter into an orphan. Did he have a magic dick or something?

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 04:03 AM (iQIUe)

858 Did he have a magic dick or something?
Posted by: Bear With a Wang!

Allah pro-wides.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 04:05 AM (9YDUz)

859
Even more murder provoking, the potato salad had real bacon bits crumbled on top.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 04:05 AM (iQIUe)

860 Did he have a magic dick or something?

Let's leave the J. Geils Band's harmonica player out of this.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 03, 2015 04:07 AM (HMt16)

861 857
I find it hard to believe he could talk his wife into a suicide mission and into making their young daughter into an orphan. Did he have a magic dick or something?

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 04:03 AM (iQIUe)

Which leads me to ideal immigration policy: kids up to 15, females up to 30, males > 15 only with advanced STEM degrees and/or Nobel prizes.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 04:08 AM (EzgxV)

862 All this talk of 9/11 reminded me of Ashleigh Banfield, who used to be a reporter here in Dallas and then went to MSNBC, you might remember her reporting near the WTC after it collapsed, wondered whatever happened to her and according to her wiki NBC put her on the shit list because she gave a speech criticizing FOX for wrapping itself in the flag, I think that's the year they also fired Phil Donahue, gives you an idea of how different the zeitgeist was then compared to just a few years later. And with that I'm out, y'all have a good night.

Posted by: All Teh Meh at December 03, 2015 04:09 AM (iiDhh)

863 ....and, of course, my favorite immigration policy: for each immigrant, find an emigrant. No limits. If someone can buy someone to be an exile, they can be a legal resident in their place.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 04:12 AM (EzgxV)

864 Posted by: Maetenloch at December 03, 2015 03:53 AM (wqVD1)

It's the Obama complex. He can do no wrong, never be wrong.

Trump is Obama with funnier hair.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 03, 2015 04:15 AM (Zu3d9)

865 Skip:

Yes, there is. Second cousin marriage for 1400 years.

Mental illness in Muzzies is at shocking levels everywhere.

Ann Barnhardt has a great screed about it at Barnhardt.biz

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:15 AM (QWtgr)

866 Trees were beginning to grow up in buildings on what had been the main street.......

Posted by: Kaspar Gutman at December 02, 2015 11:30 PM (lutOX)

Sounds like Pocahontas, VA.

Now there was a coal mining boom town back in the early 1900's, twenty-thirty thousand people. The little Catholic church on the hill, St. Elizabeth's, is beautiful, lovingly crafted and painted by mostly Slovak immigrants working in the mines. Now you'd be lucky to find 200 people living in Poky. The last 'business' I saw in operation there was the Post Office.

Posted by: RickZ at December 03, 2015 04:15 AM (Lc+NQ)

867 Night all.

Here is what you get when you cross the Beatles with Metallica...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWiTQMm4xyc

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 03, 2015 04:15 AM (vBeA5)

868 Here:

http://www.barnhardt.biz/the-one-about/the-one-about-muslims-being-inbred/

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:17 AM (QWtgr)

869 Actually, I stand corrected. Muzzies have been first cousin marrying for 1400 years.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:20 AM (QWtgr)

870 Well this throws another wrench in the lefty playbook that Muzzies want to be like the rest of us.

Posted by: Skip at December 03, 2015 04:24 AM (E8oTQ)

871 Why didnt his mother and brother do anything if they were bldg bombs in the home? Are they under arrest?

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 04:29 AM (iQIUe)

872 Well this throws another wrench in the lefty playbook that Muzzies want to be like the rest of us.
Posted by: Skip

Not really in all seriousness. The current MENA is a wasteland. Who wouldn't want a way out of that hideousness.

The bad part is that mere immigration to a western society isn't going to automatically fill that void.

Culture matters.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 03, 2015 04:31 AM (9YDUz)

873
The MSM is worthless. We still have few confirmed facts.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 04:34 AM (iQIUe)

874 I assume his wife was here illegally. You cant just go get married and return with the person. Over stayed tourist visa?

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 04:35 AM (iQIUe)

875 Also, Islam is very fatalistic. They truly are just meat slaves to their moon god.

If you were writing interstellar empire style sci fi you couldn't come up with a more fucked up scourge for 1/4 of a planet to be covered with than Islam.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:37 AM (QWtgr)

876 My big things today were transferring money around and paying our property taxes, and running strange widgets from Thanksgiving through our dishwasher. The smaller things were cleaning-up from turkey day and doing some recycling. It's been a busy day, but I still feel that I did diddly-bupkis.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 04:37 AM (EzgxV)

877 This was more of an Over Nightmare Thread tonight.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:41 AM (QWtgr)

878 Sherry McEvil, been meaning to send you a follow-up email. Hoping your guy's recovery has been as good as can be expected, and that you're holding up, all considered.
Posted by: mindful webworker - positively at December 02, 2015 11:38 PM (REkPr

*Delurking*

Sherry McEvil: prayers for you.

*relurking*

Posted by: tbodie at December 03, 2015 04:42 AM (X5jRy)

879 Cooth:

I'm still thinking about Woodstocks Pizza.

Damn.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:42 AM (QWtgr)

880 Culture matters
I totally agree, ours, French, Danish, Belgian all. Lefties have some we are all the world and don't need borders we need group think.

Posted by: Skip at December 03, 2015 04:43 AM (E8oTQ)

881 879 Cooth:

I'm still thinking about Woodstocks Pizza.

Damn.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:42 AM (QWtgr)

Did you see my link to their history? They're still around.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 03, 2015 04:45 AM (EzgxV)

882 I did. Just not near to me.

I must brave the fires of Hell (Corvallis) soon.

Pray for me. Satan's Favorite Daughter (ex-#1) lies in wait.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 03, 2015 04:48 AM (QWtgr)

883 I was watching some documentary about muslims being targeted for "pre emptive " prosecution. They use informants to get close to muzzies calling for jihad and wanting to kill Americans. They offer to hook them up with a recruiter and after meeting with recruiter, they will arrest them. I have no problems with this. And no, it is not entrapment since, they already have criminal histories and are the ones who first expressed the desire to join terrorist groups. Anyway, human rights (spit) groups and aclu are up in arms about it.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 04:48 AM (iQIUe)

884 876 My big things today were transferring money around and paying our property taxes

I'm about to pay my property taxes too, drives me crazy because it's a yearly reminder that I'll never really own this lot outright, even when the mortgage is paid I'll still essentially owe rent in the form of property taxes. And now I'm really out, night

Posted by: All Teh Meh at December 03, 2015 04:51 AM (iiDhh)

885 Dennis Prager was reading a article from New York Times I think about Muzzy backlash and the epidemic. It was backed by lefty and Muzzy group organization. The episodes were laughable in severity and no won was injured in any of the examples.

Posted by: Skip at December 03, 2015 04:56 AM (E8oTQ)

886 Job and new baby yet they had time and money to blow on weapons, practicing with weapons, building bombs and their familes didnt know even though they lived with them? Bullsite!

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 05:12 AM (iQIUe)

887
CAIR the official terrorist mouthpiece already has the family before the camera whining we didnt know!!!1!!!

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 05:13 AM (iQIUe)

888
BREAKING: Turkey will regret what it did against us. Putin.

Posted by: Bear With a Wang! at December 03, 2015 05:30 AM (iQIUe)

889 And I heard a voice cry out : "Sleep no more lest there be nightmares." and I was sorely vexed, but sleep, blessed sleep, alas, has fled to another place, a place to which I dare not go.

Fear haunts the night. Mummers faintly heard, too indistinct for meaning, leaving behind only dread, inescapable dread of things yet to be; fate predetermined.

Oh, to sleep, to cast away despair. Sleep, is not to be, and there is no answer to that foul question. What must be paid, what must be sacrificed, for a few precious hours of peace?

Posted by: Nathan Cakemore at December 03, 2015 05:42 AM (ANFML)

890 Two hours 'til daylight.

Posted by: Nathan Cakemore at December 03, 2015 05:46 AM (ANFML)

891 The Guardian : The Narrative : The victims : The Mystery :

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gq68uzt

Posted by: Nathan Cakemore at December 03, 2015 05:53 AM (ANFML)

892 Mika just now:
"And coming up on Morning Joe, we're learning new details about yesterday's workplace shooting."

Posted by: The Chairman Of The Bored at December 03, 2015 05:53 AM (NVddU)

893 Oh,

Another workplace shooting, huh?

Posted by: Ft. Hood at December 03, 2015 05:54 AM (zyIlW)

894 It's now time to pivot to real evil. White priveledge, gun control and climate change.

Posted by: Syed Farook at December 03, 2015 06:05 AM (XgfBI)

895 Somebody that I Used to Know was an elaborate scheme to see Kimbra naked.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 03, 2015 06:17 AM (VdICR)

896 Le NOOD

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 03, 2015 06:23 AM (ptqRm)

897 "The Bottom Line: There Were No Publicly Celebrating Muslims in New Jersey on 9/11"

Interesting how the BS percentage of an article always equals the odds of the comments section either being closed or never having existed to begin with.

For the record: I watched Jersey City Muslims dancing in the streets. They were handing out candies like they do at weddings. Made my blood boil I dare you to tell me to my face that I didn't see what I saw.

Posted by: Aarradin at December 03, 2015 08:15 AM (E1dWk)

898 "Great Moments in Commie Planning:"

American Liberals war on DDT has probably killed more people. Preventing the single best means of massively reducing, possibly eliminating, mosquito-born Malaria has directly resulted in the deaths of tens of millions, as well as a great many more having their life expectancy reduced (and quality of life even much more reduced) due to having contracted, but surviving, malaria.

Posted by: Aarradin at December 03, 2015 08:24 AM (E1dWk)

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