Resolved, Progressivism Is a Cult

A couple of pieces about the phenomenon of Religion Without God.

The Tyranny of a Big Idea
Modern liberals are best understood as would-be believers in search of true faith.

Maybe Sigmund Freud should have been a political scientist. Psychoanalysis might be useless as treatment for neurotics, but there’s something to be said for it as a mode of ideological investigation. To wit, what explains the fatal attraction of the secular mind to the politics of impending apocalypse?

He establishes liberals Apocalyptic framework of understanding the world (the "Population Bomb," the coming Global Warming floods, peak oil and so forth).

But the real question isn't what drives people to be leaders of a new movement. That's easy enough to understand. It's why so many people--usually well-educated, urbane liberals--would wish to be followers.

I don't know if they're "well educated." Let's just say many were physically located in a college setting at some point.

...
What matters... is the strength of the longing. Modern liberalism is best understood as a movement of would-be believers in search of true faith. For much of the 20th century it was faith in History, especially in its Marxist interpretation. Now it's faith in the environment. Each is a comprehensive belief system, an instruction sheet on how to live, eat and reproduce, a story of how man fell and how he might be redeemed, a tale of impending crisis that’s also a moral crucible.
In short, a religion without God.

Tyler O'Neill at PJ Media:

The Theology of Liberalism
How much is liberalism like a religion?
There is a sort of orthodoxy required among liberals. Do you believe in climate change? What about the gender pay gap? Those who do not toe the line often find themselves exiled -- not just from the fold, but from the conversation.
To some extent, these views are merely what we mean when we say the word "liberal" -- they describe a political program roughly supported by one major party. But at some point, these views have become prescriptive; they have morphed into a moral structure to provide meaning and guidance in place of religion. When political beliefs start to explain why bad things happen to good people, they may be crystallizing into something closer to faith.
Political views and religious belief are indeed two very different things, and many liberals have even criticized the pseudo-religious trends in their movement and party. Nevertheless, some recent events should make us wonder just how religious liberal orthodoxy has become.
These are not some cheap shots aimed at liberalism merely to discredit the ideas, but current trends in the movement which illustrate how a political ideology can answer human needs usually satisfied by religion. The ability to explain why bad things happen to good people, the need to confess your sins and find absolution, and the desire to attack opposing views as heretical -- these traditionally religious activities are increasingly being taken up by a political movement.
Perhaps liberalism is more like a religion than we thought.

He then turns to the concept of "theodicy," the question of how bad things can happen in a world overwatched by a good God, and finds that progressives are now concerned with a sort of secular theodicy, in which they are always trying to answer: How can bad things happen in a country with a Mighty and Benevolent Government?

Mollie Z. Hemingway wrote about this in May, after the Amtrak derailment caused liberals to demand more Goats of Money be offered on the Altars of Government to prevent more Cursed Traintracks.

Walter Russel Mead had an interesting piece last week.

When God Goes Away, Superstition Takes His Place
Human beings feel instinctively that the visible reality that we live in day to day is connected to something larger and more mysterious. When belief in God goes away, the hunger for meaning and connection with a truth beyond the business of daily life remains.

He cites the case of an allegedly atheist rational humanist who goes to a clairvoyant to fix the problems in her life.

People who think themselves too rational for religious belief end up believing in "astral forces", ghosts and other phenomena. Sometimes these superstitions take the deadly form of political ideologies that fanatical believers take up with religious fervor--communist atheists murdered tens of millions of people in the 20th century in the irrational grip of an ugly ideology. They scoffed at the credulity of religious believers even as they worshipped the infallible insights of Stalin. Similarly, the Nazis presented their faith as an alternative to the "outgrown superstitions" of historic Christianity.

I wish I could remember who wrote this -- please let me know -- but I saw an interesting piece last week that argued the following:

* Ideas have consequences.

* Some of these consequences are very dire. Memes -- ideas -- are like parasites; some of these parasites are deadly. Someone can be killed for believing very stupid things, and if enough people who believe in very stupid things control a society, they can kill the whole race.

* Conventional religion is an old set of ideas.

* Even if you do not believe in any conventional religion, you have to acknowledge that the ideas in religion are not inherently suicidal -- they are provably not the sorts of ideas that will cause a society to self-extinguish.

* Nature abhors a vacuum, and so does the mind. A mind emptied of one idea will be quickly filled with another.

* Beliefs tend to immunize one against other beliefs. This can be good and bad. It's bad when people refuse to question their beliefs, but it can have the salutary effect of also hedging out very, very stupid beliefs that might replace their existing beliefs.

* Some of the new ideas idiots are filling their feeble brains with are inherently self-destructive, and might -- unlike the old ideas of religion -- actually destroy a society.

So in summation:

Even if one thinks that religion is hokey, it is better to have a set of non-suicidal hokey beliefs than to fill one's mind with suicidal ones.

I'm interested in the idea of memes, the idea that ideas are just communicable diseases -- intellectual viruses spread by the vectors of speaking or writing or listening or reading.

Some bugs are good -- like the good bacteria in your gut -- and are symbiotic and healthy for the host.

Others are deadly.

And there's an interesting thing about deadliness -- diseases which are too deadly tend to be self-liming as far as pandemic potential. Ebola, for example, is a disease that tends to kill its host too quickly to spread as far as, say, the Spanish flu, which killed millions.

An idea like "maybe I should eat poison because it's tasty and will make me good at sexing a woman" will not quickly spread because the bearers of this pathogen will die too quickly to infect the herd.

But diseases like toxic progressivism and totalitarianism...? These kill more slowly, and less obviously, so that the people carrying the diseases have plausible deniability about their danger to the herd.

Posted by: Ace at 06:53 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Paging Eric Hoffer.

Eric Hoffer to the White Courtesy Telephone.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 06:57 PM (jBuUi)

2 This has to be right, because even smart Leftists are simply impervious to facts.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 03, 2015 06:59 PM (8ZskC)

3 Eric Hoffer to the White Courtesy Telephone.
Posted by: zombie

#WhiteTelephonePrivilege

Posted by: Social Justice Wankers at November 03, 2015 07:00 PM (awspb)

4 In mystery religions circa 300BC to 400AD, it was commonplace for initiates to have sex with the priest or priestess who have "called down" the deity into his or her body.

The progressives' self-admited erotic/sexual obsession with Obama ("thrill up my leg," "ObamaGirl," etc.) is proof that to them, Obama literally - -not metaphorically, but literally -- was a demigod blessing them with a sexual sacrament.

Evangelic Christians are amateurs compared to progressives when it comes to blind obedience to irrational dogma.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:01 PM (jBuUi)

5 interesting connection, Zombie.

Posted by: ace at November 03, 2015 07:01 PM (dciA+)

6 AGW belief is every bit as much a religion as Catholicism. They've even gotten to the point where they want to burn the heretics.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 03, 2015 07:03 PM (9iR5/)

7 I've noticed that among many hardcore atheists it almost . . . an article of faith that they should vote liberal Democrat. The idea that shunning Christianity must entail Big Government is very dogmatic.

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:03 PM (vsbNu)

8 Well duh

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:03 PM (5F+Yd)

9 3 Eric Hoffer to the White Courtesy Telephone.
Posted by: zombie

#WhiteTelephonePrivilege
Posted by: Social Justice Wankers

The Black Courtesy Telephone works just as well as the White Courtesy Telephone. But in our state, we keep them separate!

Posted by: Southern Governor, 1954 at November 03, 2015 07:03 PM (jBuUi)

10 I drink, therefore I am.

Posted by: andycanuck at November 03, 2015 07:04 PM (HbSdt)

11 I think it's useful to remember that since time immemorial all humans fill certain roles in society: Soldier, Hunter, Priest, etc.

The "priest" class is not just about religion; it's about any philosophical argument about what The Good is. It's also about augury (don't vote for Trump or you'll destroy the country).

I despise the priest class, although I realize I belong to that class.

Being a member of the Priest class -- a class which proves its desirability (sexual -- it's all about attracting mates) by saying clever things about What The Gods Want This Year -- I can say that the Priests of any society are the most worthless, useless pieces of free-riding, contribute-nothing shit in society and should all be collectively put to the stake.

Posted by: ace at November 03, 2015 07:04 PM (dciA+)

12 The Black Courtesy Telephone works just as well as the White Courtesy Telephone. But in our state, we keep them separate!
Posted by: Southern DEMOCRAT Governor, 1954

Fixed for accuracy.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at November 03, 2015 07:04 PM (awspb)

13 Dennis Prager says Leftism is the most dynamic religion in the past 100 years

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:05 PM (5F+Yd)

14 >>> I'm interested in the idea of memes, the idea that ideas are just communicable diseases -- intellectual viruses spread by the vectors of speaking or writing or listening or reading.

*ponders whether this makes AoS a virus or an inoculation from a virus*

*decides it doesn't matter*

*goes back to reading*

Posted by: LizLem at November 03, 2015 07:05 PM (hvf9s)

15

Oh, what a nice post.
Many gifts inside.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 03, 2015 07:06 PM (qCMvj)

16 Gay marriage is the creepiest thing I've seen in a long time.

The left is actually disturbed by the fact that you haven't changed your mind just because everyone else did.

"How can you still not agree with gay marriage?"

"Still"? What do they mean by "still"? They mean "Change your mind to fit the groupthink."

I like when people say "Well, I didn't agree with it, but I've evolved."

Yes. Yes, you have. Evolution is caused by adapting to a hostile environment. When you say, "My thinking has evolved," you're saying, "If I didn't adapt I would have been killed."

Posted by: RKae at November 03, 2015 07:06 PM (P429p)

17 My druid priest defeats your human thief!

Posted by: Dungeons and Dragons Nerd at November 03, 2015 07:07 PM (vsbNu)

18 >>> AGW belief is every bit as much a religion as Catholicism. They've even gotten to the point where they want to burn the heretics.
Posted by: Old Blue at November 03, 2015 07:03 PM (9iR5/)

AND perform indulgences (AGW carbon offsets), AND have original sin (white privilege.) The Borgias only WISH they had that kind of power.

Posted by: LizLem at November 03, 2015 07:07 PM (hvf9s)

19 a druid is by definition not a priest, Fake-Nerd!

Posted by: ace at November 03, 2015 07:07 PM (dciA+)

20 pretty good stuff. At least Christians are told to have kids, not to die out like the libs are told.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 03, 2015 07:07 PM (+NxcC)

21 13 Dennis Prager says Leftism is the most dynamic religion in the past 100 years
Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:05 PM (5F+Yd)

Why, sure, because: .....all the children are insane.

Posted by: Jim 98ZJUSMCorrison at November 03, 2015 07:08 PM (szPB3)

22 **shaves head**

**holds up sign**

"This is what the Dalai Lama looks like"

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (SAuZ1)

23 When I was in university I wrote a thesis on Maoism as religion. Considering I was a dumbass university student I think I would stand by that and apply it to all progressives.
And I still wonder why the words Stalinist and Maoist don't have the same negative ring ad fascist.
Perhaps people are stupid.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (K4Ejl)

24 * Ideas have consequences.

* Some of these consequences are very dire.

This, in a nutshell, is the defense of social conservatism. Social Conservatism has always been basically a defense of what works for preserving a society, against the threat of screwball new ideas.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (OiH3z)

25 5 interesting connection, Zombie.

Posted by: ace

Uh oh, Ace is in the house -- all comments must be insightful or funny or both!

Everybody -- look smart!

But seriously, the mystery-religion phase of history (out of which only one survived and emerged triumphant -- what we now call "Christianity") is very very similar in is psychological structure to progressivism.

I studied that shit for too many years in college (while I was still a moonbat, alas), and it was only after my "neocon conversation" that I realized I had been studying myself.

Posted by: Southern Governor, 1954 at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (jBuUi)

26 I've mentioned this before. I'm personally agnostic, but I prefer to live in a society dominated by Christian morals. Why mess with what works, right?

Posted by: mugiwara at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (1xTfl)

27 >>>This, in a nutshell, is the defense of social conservatism. Social Conservatism has always been basically a defense of what works for preserving a society, against the threat of screwball new ideas.

we shouldn't live by your old crazy rules! We should live by these NEW crazy rules!

Posted by: ace at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (dciA+)

28
Joe, you don't care about Gaia ? Tssk Tssk

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (3mTyP)

29 10 I drink, therefore I am.
Posted by: andycanuck at November 03, 2015 07:04 PM (HbSdt)

It's always worked for me.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (szPB3)

30 "neocon conversation" = "neocon conversion"

Two little extra letters totally changes the meaning! Sigh.

Posted by: Southern Governor, 1954 at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (jBuUi)

31 And I still wonder why the words Stalinist and Maoist don't have the same negative ring ad fascist.
Perhaps people are stupid.
Posted by: Northernlurker

I'd say 60+ years of the whitewashing of their crimes by academia. Also, people are stupid.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (awspb)

32 Evangelic Christians are amateurs compared to progressives when it comes to blind obedience to irrational dogma.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:01 PM (jBuUi)
==========================================

I would reject your premise that evangelical Christians are a picture of blind obedience to irrational dogma.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (dFi94)

33 1 Clemson 2 LSU 3 Ohio State and 4 Alabama are the rankings from the PLayoff Committee.

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (vsbNu)

34 Ugh, and I'm still with my sockpuppet. Off, accursed Southern Governor!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:11 PM (jBuUi)

35 I've mentioned this before. I'm personally agnostic, but I prefer to live in a society dominated by Christian morals. Why mess with what works, right?
Posted by: mugiwara at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (1xTfl)

This

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 03, 2015 07:11 PM (3mTyP)

36 Ugh, and I'm still with my sockpuppet. Off, accursed Southern DEMOCRAT Governor!
Posted by: zombie

Fixed for accuracy again.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at November 03, 2015 07:12 PM (awspb)

37 19 a druid is by definition not a priest, Fake-Nerd!
Posted by: ace at November 03, 2015 07:07 PM (dciA+)

--Goes to show that I've not played D and D in over 2 decades.

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:12 PM (vsbNu)

38 15

Oh, what a nice post.

Many gifts inside.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 03, 2015 07:06 PM (qCMvj)

That. Thanks, Ace.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:13 PM (3dOE/)

39 It's why so many people--usually well-educated, urbane liberals--would wish to be followers.

Western leftism is based on runaway guilt and self-hate. That is what makes and drives Western leftists and their nihilistic fantasies. This production of self-hating guilters is part of the downside of individualism. You have to take the bad with the good - and the good of individualistic society is so immense, but if this bad is allowed to grow to levels such as we see today then the individualistic society just ends up committing suicide. it happens.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 03, 2015 07:13 PM (zc3Db)

40 Hebrews 11:1

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." KJV

My own faith, from as long as I can remember, being raised in a Christian home, is part of me. I have a simple faith. Do not question theology or wanting to explain my faith in scientific methods. I do know that without faith, in hard times or with the loss of family I will see again, I would feel empty and scared of the future.

We are not meant to be able, in this life, to know all the answers. To have proof. I have witnessed a miracle or two in my life. I have had peace in hard times, thanks to God.

I love you all, but the answers are simple. Pick up a Bible, while my choice is the KJV, reportedly written with Shakespeare as one of the translators, it remains the most popular and known book today. Some of the verse's beauty are breathtaking..."Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiadeas, or loose the bands of Orion?" Job 38:31.

I am not, for a moment, being a Biblical scholar. I still struggle like mad through the Old Testament. I am reading a book that basically translates Revelations. But there is such beauty there and knowledge and peace.

Love you all. xoxo

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at November 03, 2015 07:13 PM (eXl9F)

41 35
I've mentioned this before. I'm personally agnostic, but I prefer to live in a society dominated by Christian morals. Why mess with what works, right?
Posted by: mugiwara at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (1xTfl)

This

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 03, 2015 07:11 PM (3mTyP)

This ^2

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:13 PM (3dOE/)

42 17 My druid priest defeats your human thief!
Posted by: Dungeons and Dragons Nerd

My Redneck Sharpshooter fells your Poofter Pajama Boy!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:14 PM (jBuUi)

43 My working theory...

The Human brain is a chemical computer.

It has 3 levels of programing...

1. the instinctual... those things which we are not really in control of... they can be over ridden by a strong will... by its pretty hard to leave your hand on a burning hot object...

2. Base programming... these are the things babies all have inherently... and also things which somehow transcend all cultures. Some are chemical programming based on Testosterone and other brain chemicals...

3. Learned behavior... which CAN over ride both other levels of programming to an extent... but when in conflict WITH those other levels of programming create internal conflict, which makes us unhappy (usually).

Gender roles are a combination of Layer 1, and layer 2 programming... with an overlay of layer 3 behavior...

Liberals, media, and Education, all seem to believe that they can reprogram human nature with just learned behavior... that there will be no conflict...

But when your Learned Behaviour (layer 3) is in conflict with layers 1 and 2? Its not going to work because EVERYONE is then unhappy... and they don't even understand why....

Posted by: BB Wolf at November 03, 2015 07:15 PM (qh617)

44 40 Hebrews 11:1

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." KJV

My own faith, from as long as I can remember, being raised in a Christian home, is part of me. I have a simple faith. Do not question theology or wanting to explain my faith in scientific methods. I do know that without faith, in hard times or with the loss of family I will see again, I would feel empty and scared of the future.

We are not meant to be able, in this life, to know all the answers. To have proof. I have witnessed a miracle or two in my life. I have had peace in hard times, thanks to God.

I love you all, but the answers are simple. Pick up a Bible, while my choice is the KJV, reportedly written with Shakespeare as one of the translators, it remains the most popular and known book today. Some of the verse's beauty are breathtaking..."Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiadeas, or loose the bands of Orion?" Job 38:31.

I am not, for a moment, being a Biblical scholar. I still struggle like mad through the Old Testament. I am reading a book that basically translates Revelations. But there is such beauty there and knowledge and peace.

Love you all. xoxo

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at November 03, 2015 07:13 PM (eXl9F)
That's good

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:15 PM (K4Ejl)

45 I've mentioned this before. I'm personally agnostic, but I prefer to live in a society dominated by Christian morals. Why mess with what works, right?
Posted by: mugiwara at November 03, 2015 07:09 PM (1xTfl)

This
Posted by: The Jackhole at November 03, 2015 07:11 PM (3mTyP)

This ^2
Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:13 PM (3dOE/)

It'll take Christians to make those Christian morals dominant again. Wanna sign up?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:15 PM (0NdlF)

46 My Redneck Sharpshooter fells your Poofter Pajama Boy!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:14 PM (jBuUi)

My Trans-Black Didnu Nuthin loots the body.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:16 PM (0NdlF)

47 My Redneck Sharpshooter fells your Poofter Pajama Boy!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:14 PM (jBuUi)

My Trans-Black Didnu Nuthin loots the body.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster

HA! My mohammedan inventor planted a clock on the body.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at November 03, 2015 07:17 PM (awspb)

48 There's an excellent work of history, The Pursuit of the Millennium by Norman Cohn from 1957, in which the author examines a series of violent millennialist movements in the late Middle Ages. Cohn observed commonalities between them that he noted also applied to radical secular ideologies of the 19th and 20th centuries, and they apply as well to those of our own time.

Posted by: An Inanimate Carbon Rod at November 03, 2015 07:17 PM (FohCt)

49 I would reject your premise that evangelical Christians are a picture of blind obedience to irrational dogma.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks

Noted!

We all know that I am on Team Agnostic, so I tend to pooh-pooh any religions as "irrational." But that's just my opinion. As a self-aware agnostic, I know full well that I don't really know anything.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:18 PM (jBuUi)

50 It'll take Christians to make those Christian morals dominant again. Wanna sign up?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:15 PM (0NdlF)

I struggle with this because I agree more Christians are needed, but I just can't make the jump to truly believing Jesus Christ was/is God.

Though in the unlikely case I ever have kids, I'll definitely be dragging their asses to church on Sunday.

Posted by: mugiwara at November 03, 2015 07:18 PM (1xTfl)

51 I've often thought Liberalism is filled with superstition and "magical thinking."

I remember during the 1988 presidential race, when Dukakis picked Lloyd Bentsen, Democrats were saying "We've got the Massachusetts-Texas connection again!" i.e., Kennedy and Johnson.

It's as if simply duplicating the ephemeral characteristics of a previous success was enough to duplicate the success as well.

That's "magical thinking," like "If I wear my lucky socks tonight I'll get a raise at Friday's evaluation."

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 03, 2015 07:19 PM (B8JRQ)

52 As long as you've got some kind of god it's ok right?

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:19 PM (BO/km)

53 35 I've mentioned this before. I'm personally agnostic, but I prefer to live in a society dominated by Christian morals. Why mess with what works, right?
Posted by: mugiwara

Agreed as well.

See, grammie? I like the world that the Christians have created. Even a hardened agnostic knows good when he sees it.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:19 PM (jBuUi)

54 I believe the tree is only as sound as the ground it ground it grows in.
Government and governance will become moral only when people change. And that means some kind of fundamental revival, which I pray for.
No offence intended to those who don't share my faith.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:19 PM (K4Ejl)

55 We are here to exorcise demonic air conditioning.

Posted by: The EPA at November 03, 2015 07:20 PM (Dwehj)

56 I struggle with this because I agree more Christians are needed, but I just can't make the jump to truly believing Jesus Christ was/is God.

Where'd his body go?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:20 PM (0NdlF)

57 Well they're definitely like children.

I once saw a thing on television where a clearly elderly liberal woman stood up and hurr durr how does God allow bad things to happen if he's God hurr durr. A question you'd expect from a five year old. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of Christianity can answer the question.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (4ErVI)

58 "This is what the Dalai Lama looks like"

Huh. No pants.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (BO/km)

59 Theodicy. That was the one with Ulysses.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (FkBIv)

60 I remember during the 1988 presidential race, when Dukakis picked Lloyd Bentsen, Democrats were saying "We've got the Massachusetts-Texas connection again!" i.e., Kennedy and Johnson.

It's as if simply duplicating the ephemeral characteristics of a previous success was enough to duplicate the success as well.

That's "magical thinking," like "If I wear my lucky socks tonight I'll get a raise at Friday's evaluation."
Posted by: BeckoningChasm

It also shows glaring historical ignorance because without massive voter fraud Kennedy/Johnson would've lost.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (awspb)

61 Well, Treasury's latest DTS is out after the deal, and the total public debt jumped only $339.1B. I was mid-balling a guess at $500B, but the actual number was a lowball.

Of course, they could have not completely unwound all the tricks for some reason.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (dvuhZ)

62 we shouldn't live by your old crazy rules! We should live by these NEW crazy rules!

Posted by: ace at November 03, 2015 07:10 PM (dciA+)

The old rules may have been crazy, but they were tested. That counts for something.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (OiH3z)

63 45

It'll take Christians to make those Christian morals dominant again. Wanna sign up?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:15 PM (0NdlF)

I could not be a fake christian. And there would be no
other choice for me. But I would fight for your rights to believe and
practice within the framework of our constitution. I will consider exposing my children to the teachings. I come from Southern Baptist, my wife is Christian.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (3dOE/)

64 I lurk around here because there's some really good and intelligent people here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (K4Ejl)

65 Sam Harris voices those ideas. That is one of his arguments.

Posted by: Jack at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (53CCM)

66 64
I lurk around here because there's some really good and intelligent people here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (K4Ejl)

So you're implying there are others who are dumb and retarded who are here?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (4ErVI)

67 I got this link from an old sidebar post here, and have kept it bookmarked since. It's probably the best and most thorough guide to the Progressive mindset that I've ever seen. Don't let it TL;DR you, it starts a little slow, and the author's language is a little archaic, but the conclusions are rock solid:

http://tinyurl.com/ody8czg

In short, the thing that's stolen the name of liberalism is a combination of religion, addiction, and mental illness all rolled up into one.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (HalrA)

68 Where'd his body go?

The first word in this song is discorporate. It means to leave your body.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (FkBIv)

69 56
I struggle with this because I agree more Christians are needed, but I just can't make the jump to truly believing Jesus Christ was/is God.

Where'd his body go?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:20 PM (0NdlF)

. . . asks the trans-black dindu nuthin.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (3dOE/)

70 Drudge: 54% of Los Angeles doesn't speak English.

Progtard reads this and thinks, fantastic, diversity is awesome.

Rational human reads this and thinks, we're fucked.

Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (0LHZx)

71 59 Theodicy. That was the one with Ulysses

Was that before or after the Idiollid?

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (BO/km)

72 I think it's useful to remember that since time immemorial all humans fill certain roles in society: Soldier, Hunter, Priest, etc.

The "priest" class is not just about religion; it's about any philosophical argument about what The Good is. It's also about augury (don't vote for Trump or you'll destroy the country).

I despise the priest class, although I realize I belong to that class.

Being a member of the Priest class -- a class which proves its desirability (sexual -- it's all about attracting mates) by saying clever things about What The Gods Want This Year -- I can say that the Priests of any society are the most worthless, useless pieces of free-riding, contribute-nothing shit in society and should all be collectively put to the stake.

I have to disagree with the useless part. "King, Warrior, Magician, Lover", by Robert Moore, is a good book about this type of thing. The priestly class (the magicians or seekers of knowledge) have long been a vital part of any society. In a healthy society they focused on the rituals necessary for the spiritual health of people, as well as preserving important knowledge. There's a reason that the universities of the West, or the bureaucracy of the East, were completely intertwined with the religious institutions: those institutions were the only ones capable of developing them. In the west, the Catholic church, focused on the salvation of the soul and the question of how to live a good life as instructed by the word of God, were forced to develop the mental tools that would be so valuable in other areas of study.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at November 03, 2015 07:24 PM (OiH3z)

73 Everybody has dumb ideas and magical thinking.

What conservatives have, and quite a few in Western religious traditions as well, is a framework for judging dumb ideas and magical thinking.

For all the talk about SCIENCE!, (as opposed to science), modern liberals are opposed to that kind of judgement, seek to tear down institutions in favor of whatever comes next.

History tells, to those of us who listen, what comes next.

It's not Heaven on Earth, if that helps.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 03, 2015 07:24 PM (bLnSU)

74 True believers have faith. The only question is in what?

Who, whom or what you choose to worship says a lot about you.

I am going with C.S. Lewis. An atheist who converted to Christianity.

Course, I am a moron and proud to be one.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:25 PM (jJRIy)

75 66 64
I lurk around here because there's some really good and intelligent people here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (K4Ejl)

So you're implying there are others who are dumb and retarded who are here?
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (4ErVI)
I like lurking here. Period. Because of the quality of the non lurkers.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:25 PM (K4Ejl)

76 So you're implying there are others who are dumb and retarded who are here?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (4ErVI)

Awkward.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 03, 2015 07:25 PM (8ZskC)

77 61 Well, Treasury's latest DTS is out after the deal, and the total public debt jumped only $339.1B. I was mid-balling a guess at $500B, but the actual number was a lowball.

Of course, they could have not completely unwound all the tricks for some reason.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (dvuhZ)

You won't see the real numbers until after the election....

The Dems have an interest in hiding the numbers... and as the Congress no longer has any say over the debt... and thus no OVERSITE...

They will cook the books until after the election so their overspending does not become a campaign issue.

Posted by: BB Wolf at November 03, 2015 07:26 PM (qh617)

78 Goats of Money
Didn't get enough kids to Union Engineers so the GPS train control project is butted into next year.

Back to the content.

Posted by: DaveA at November 03, 2015 07:26 PM (DL2i+)

79 I could not be a fake christian. And there would be no other choice for me.

You want the societal benefits without the personal cost. I appreciate the honesty.

You're getting what you deserve, sadly.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:26 PM (0NdlF)

80 I'm saying Dennis has spotted this for a long time. Leftism has taken over Christianity and Judaism, and a lot of religious people are becoming lefties first. But also non religious people have joined the leftism religion through the earth first movement be it global warming or nature worship.

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:26 PM (5F+Yd)

81 I can say that the Priests of any society are the
most worthless, useless pieces of free-riding, contribute-nothing shit
in society and should all be collectively put to the stake.

Posted by: ace at November 03, 2015 07:04 PM (dciA+)

Hey, you talking about me?

Posted by: Pope Socialist Francis at November 03, 2015 07:27 PM (jJRIy)

82 One thing I've recently noticed about progs (and maybe it's always been there I just didn't notice before) is how they view everything as winning vs losing. When Obama gave Iran the bomb, their argument wasn't "hey this is a good thing" it was always Obama won, fuck you GOP. And this is always how their view is. It's not does XYZ make my life better? It's "my tribe is winning". Which explains why liberals in Europe are euphoric over the Muslim invasion. They know it will hurt them, but they'd rather suffer personally just so their tribe can win.

It's literally a mental disease.

Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at November 03, 2015 07:27 PM (0LHZx)

83 66 64
I lurk around here because there's some really good and intelligent people here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (K4Ejl)

So you're implying there are others who are dumb and retarded who are here?
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis

No -- some people here are good and intelligent, while others are SUPER-good and HYPER-intelligent.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:27 PM (jBuUi)

84 Everybody is stupid.

Smart people are stupid, dumb people are stupid, tall people, short people, dark people, light people, fast people and slow people.

Everybody is stupid.

Those who *know* they are stupid can do something about it.

A lot of people think they're smart, and that's where problems not only occur, but grow out of control.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (bLnSU)

85 We all know that I am on Team Agnostic, so I tend to
pooh-pooh any religions as "irrational." But that's just my opinion. As
a self-aware agnostic, I know full well that I don't really know
anything.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:18 PM (jBuUi)
===========================================

I get that people who don't follow a particular faith would see that faith as something that doesn't make sense to them. That could be the default position, actually. What makes me a little itchy is the characterization of evangelicals as blind followers, as if somehow we check our heads at the church door and become some mindless drone of unquestioning obedience. I see it as a caricature, and an inaccurate one.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (dFi94)

86 Everyone needs something to believe.

I believe I'll have another beer.

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (vsbNu)

87 79
I could not be a fake christian. And there would be no other choice for me.

You want the societal benefits without the personal cost. I appreciate the honesty.

You're getting what you deserve, sadly.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:26 PM (0NdlF)

So I am to blame for the ills of society for my beliefs. That's a strong selling point for conversion. Keep plucking that chicken.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (3dOE/)

88 So you're implying there are others who are dumb and retarded who are here?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis

We have our share of Trump voters, yes.

(I keed, I keed)

Posted by: pep at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (LAe3v)

89 BB Wolf I predict the experts will be surprised by the later adjusted numbers which will come to something around $499B and some change.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (BO/km)

90 Aquinas.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (BTnAK)

91 Ain't nobody voted yet.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:29 PM (BO/km)

92 So you're implying there are others who are dumb and retarded who are here?

If you're dumb enough, does inebriation on Val-U-Rite raise your effective intelligence?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:29 PM (0NdlF)

93 75
66 64

I lurk around here because there's some really good and intelligent people here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (K4Ejl)

Don't forget the dead ones, Buzzion's feelings would be hurt.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:29 PM (jJRIy)

94 I like lurking here. Period. Because of the quality of the non lurkers.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:25 PM (K4Ejl)

lol.
I'm just giving you shit. That was an easy one right over the plate.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 03, 2015 07:29 PM (4ErVI)

95 Yeah I kind of knew this was going to get personalized and ugly. One of those days.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (bLnSU)

96 So I am to blame for the ills of society for my beliefs. That's a strong selling point for conversion. Keep plucking that chicken.

Tragedy of the Commons. Blame's got nothing to do with it.

Let someone else fix it.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (0NdlF)

97 Does anyone else think it's funny how the Church gets trashed for it's stance on birth control? Apparently flooding your fifteen-year old daughter's body with hormones for a decade or more is perfectly fine, but don't you dare give her gluten!

Posted by: Colorado Alex at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (OiH3z)

98 I believe I'll have another beer

Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe you are on to something.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (BO/km)

99 >>>Even if one thinks that religion is hokey, it is better to have a set of
non-suicidal hokey beliefs than to fill one's mind with suicidal ones.<<<

Hokey religions ain't a match for a good blaster.

Posted by: Han Solo at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (REdlt)

100 Somehow this is RACIST. I trying to remember why.

Posted by: Rev Al at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (jJRIy)

101 93 75
66 64

I lurk around here because there's some really good and intelligent people here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:22 PM (K4Ejl)

Don't forget the dead ones, Buzzion's feelings would be hurt.
Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:29 PM (jJRIy)The
Does he still hang around from beyond the grave. That would make him the ultimate lurker.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (K4Ejl)

102

O/T I could really use a plate of ribs right about now.

Carry on.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:32 PM (dFi94)

103
We are here to exorcise demonic air conditioning.
Posted by: The EPA at November 03, 2015 07:20 PM (Dwehj)
....................

...and to crap in the hallways, but mostly crap in the hallways.

Posted by: wth at November 03, 2015 07:32 PM (wAQA5)

104 http://deoxy.org/alephnull/nam-shub.htm

There's a lotta meme content around.

Posted by: DaveA at November 03, 2015 07:32 PM (DL2i+)

105 I see it as a caricature, and an inaccurate one.

Posted by: grammie winger

I just hope you wear heavy-duty gloves when handling all those snakes. Stay safe in church!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (jBuUi)

106 Speaking of faith. Flu shot or not?

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (jJRIy)

107 Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem

[bonk!]

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (JO9+V)

108 96
So I am to blame for the ills of society for my beliefs. That's a strong selling point for conversion. Keep plucking that chicken.

Tragedy of the Commons. Blame's got nothing to do with it.

Let someone else fix it.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (0NdlF)

Do team christian a favor and stay out of the recruitment efforts.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (3dOE/)

109 There's a heck of a lot more room for doctrinal differences and theological debate in Christianity than there is in progressivism, that's for sure.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (kpqmD)

110 107
Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem

[bonk!]

Posted by: Count de Monet[/o]

Bring outcher dead!

Posted by: pep at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (LAe3v)

111 "We shouldn't live by your old crazy rules! We should live by these NEW crazy rules!"

I could swear that this is a futurama quote, but I have no idea what episode it would have been from.

Posted by: joe at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (tpJTj)

112

Posted by: pep at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (LAe3v)

113 cade or more is perfectly fine, but don't you dare give her gluten!
Posted by: Colorado Alex

Gluten is a hormone too! Made by Monsanto and spread via contrails.

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (jBuUi)

114 106 Speaking of faith. Flu shot or not?
Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (jJRIy)

Flu shot. It's better than not.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (kpqmD)

115 >>Even if one thinks that religion is hokey, it is better to have a set of
non-suicidal hokey beliefs than to fill one's mind with suicidal ones.

Hokey religions ain't a match for a good blaster.

*****

Suicidal, inbred boomy religions ain't a match for a christian with an ar-15...or so I heard.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (+NxcC)

116 106 Speaking of faith. Flu shot or not?
Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (jJRIy)

--I got one, but only because it was free.

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (vsbNu)

117 Everybody is stupid.

Those who *know* they are stupid can do something about it.

A lot of people think they're smart, and that's where problems not only occur, but grow out of control.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 03, 2015 07:28 PM (bLnSU)

As I've said before, about half of people live in the land of stupidity and the rest vacation there. Nobody's perfect, not by a long shot, and we're all wrong from time to time. The people that are the most dangerous are the ones who are absolutely sure of themselves and don't stop to double-check their work before plowing ahead to the next step.

That kind of confidence is the most dangerous thing on Earth, and that's the Left and their beliefs in Marxist utopianism. They believe that they merely have to destroy Western civilization as it is, which they blame for being the root of all human ills, and their utopia on Earth will spring into being.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (HalrA)

118 I'm going to Africa in January. In preparation I've gotten all the vaccines. Is that just faith?

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (K4Ejl)

119 Does he still hang around from beyond the grave. That would make him the ultimate lurker.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:31 PM (K4Ejl)

Yes, but mostly during the day. He's a day walker.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:35 PM (jJRIy)

120 113 cade or more is perfectly fine, but don't you dare give her gluten!
Posted by: Colorado Alex

Gluten is a hormone too! Made by Monsanto and spread via contrails.
Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (jBuUi)

That's just what they'd want us to believe!

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 07:35 PM (kpqmD)

121 Oops -- I cut off Colorado Alex's quote. make that..

flooding your fifteen-year old daughter's body with hormones for a decade or more is perfectly fine, but don't you dare give her gluten!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:35 PM (jBuUi)

122

Wow. It's been a few years since I've been called a snake handler. Each new day brings its own share of little surprises.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:36 PM (dFi94)

123 I don't know if religion is hockey. But in parts of Canada hockey is religion.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:36 PM (K4Ejl)

124 I just hope you wear heavy-duty gloves when handling all those snakes. Stay safe in church!
Posted by: zombie

That wouldn't be very faithful.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 03, 2015 07:36 PM (FkBIv)

125 suicidal...

speaking of which, the viewpoint of our conservative parents who were supposedly overwhelmed by lib "you're a mean white man" talking points.

Like, what else am I supposed to be?

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 03, 2015 07:36 PM (+NxcC)

126 111 "We shouldn't live by your old crazy rules! We should live by these NEW crazy rules!"

I could swear that this is a futurama quote, but I have no idea what episode it would have been from.
Posted by: joe at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (tpJTj)

--I prefer the classic Samuel Goldwyn line:

"I'm tired of the same old clichés. Bring me some new ones!"

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:36 PM (vsbNu)

127 No worse slavery than to be a prisoner to the zeitgeist. To be a man who curbs to the fashion of the day. Slave. Mindless, meaningless and futile.

How can such a man justify existence. To do what? Eat drink and pretend to be merry? No wonder such men render themselves Caitlyn. They lack the will to render themselves dead and the sense to render themselves useful. Doom. It is round about us now. Seething.

Learn to pray.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 07:37 PM (BTnAK)

128 And even your good bacteria can cause deadly disease if somehow it winds up where it's not supposed to be.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:37 PM (Xo1Rt)

129 I forget, is this good...Bevin in KY?

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (+NxcC)

130 Interesting somewhat parallel post over at Zip's place

http://www.weaselzippers.us/?p=238503

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (VPLuQ)

131 122

Wow. It's been a few years since I've been called a snake handler. Each new day brings its own share of little surprises.
Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks

I WAS JOKING, and making fun of my own prejudices!

This is a light-harted thread!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (jBuUi)

132 124 I just hope you wear heavy-duty gloves when handling all those snakes. Stay safe in church!
Posted by: zombie

That wouldn't be very faithful

Zombies don't know nuffin bout no religion.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (BO/km)

133 Pontypool.

It's a movie - it's pretty good. Like a horror movie? About words as virii . . .

This was a great post Ace. Top notch.

I also think as a society we've got sort of a "group consciousness" thing going, and our major group (boomers) are. . . uh . . . they're feeling pretty mortal around now. They're going to die pretty soon. They figure that's the end of the world for everybody, because it will be for them (afterlife aside, of course)

Posted by: YesThatBlackOrchid at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (Vz7fy)

134 I struggle with this because I agree more Christians are needed, but I just can't make the jump to truly believing Jesus Christ was/is God.

Son of God, actually, but.........

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (szPB3)

135 It's why the Lefties are so hell-bent on banishing Christianity from the public square.

Especially the 10 commandments.

Even if you're not a Christian you can see why most of these are a good thing for a community, a society. Getting people to buy into not killing, not coveting other people's stuff, etc.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (NOIQH)

136 harted = hearted

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (jBuUi)

137 Speaking of faith. Flu shot or not?

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (jJRIy)

============================

I have to do the faith thing in regards to flu. Shingles too. Can't take the shots for them. Pneumonia I can be atheist on that. Dr. says I can take the shot on that one.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (dFi94)

138 A liberal always has the ability to ignore his failures and express perfect faith that, next time, it will all be achieved.

Like the failure of ObamaCare now opens calls for Single Payer.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at November 03, 2015 07:39 PM (oVJmc)

139 Flu shots and fluoridated water are commie plots.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 03, 2015 07:40 PM (8ZskC)

140 118
I'm going to Africa in January. In preparation I've gotten all the vaccines. Is that just faith?

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (K4Ejl)

No that's smart. If you take the malaria pills just remember they make you very sensitive to sun. I got my ass burnt to a crisp one time in Central America. Be sure to carry some nausea pills,Phenigan, and diarrhea pills, lomotil.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:40 PM (jJRIy)

141
Drudge: 54% of Los Angeles doesn't speak English.

Progtard reads this and thinks, fantastic, diversity is awesome.

Rational human reads this and thinks, we're fucked.
Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (0LHZx)
.......................

Progtard thinks "Hey look at all the taco trucks!"
Rational human thinks "I bet half of them don't have insurance or health inspections."

Posted by: wth at November 03, 2015 07:40 PM (wAQA5)

142 Global warming if it isn't a religion I don't know what is. It has a set of beliefs contrary to science, it has priests and clergy, it has a end of days scenario.

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:40 PM (5F+Yd)

143 138 A liberal always has the ability to ignore his failures and express perfect faith that, next time, it will all be achieved.

Like the failure of ObamaCare now opens calls for Single Payer.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at November 03, 2015 07:39 PM (oVJmc)

Like treating a deliberate case of arsenic poisoning with cyanide.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (kpqmD)

144 I WAS JOKING, and making fun of my own prejudices!

This is a light-harted thread!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (jBuUi)
=======================================

I kinda half-knew you were joking but decided to be a piss-ant instead. Sorry about that. How about some Jello salad? Bundt cake?

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (dFi94)

145 Then I saw her face, Now I'm a believer.

Without a trace, of doubt in my mind.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (Xo1Rt)

146 67 I got this link from an old sidebar post here, and have kept it bookmarked since. It's probably the best and most thorough guide to the Progressive mindset that I've ever seen. Don't let it TL;DR you, it starts a little slow, and the author's language is a little archaic, but the conclusions are rock solid:

http://tinyurl.com/ody8czg

In short, the thing that's stolen the name of liberalism is a combination of religion, addiction, and mental illness all rolled up into one.
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 07:23 PM (HalrA)

I thought that looked familiar. Sure enough, I already had it bookmarked.

Posted by: rickl at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (sdi6R)

147 Great post, Ace - like the idea of bad ideas/beliefs being like a virus. Just look at how the whole consent/rape culture/every man is a potential rapist line of thinking is making normal, healthy male/female relationships near impossible.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (NOIQH)

148 Meanwhile, in Poland... they seem to have error'd out on one of the Progressive Program loops...

The Mulitcultural Islam is the Religion of Peace one...

Polish soccer fans unfurl a 75-foot banner depicting the Islamic invasion of Europe. At the top of the banner are the words, ""While Europe Is Flooded With An Islamic Plague" in Polish and the smaller banner continues, "Let Us Stand In Defence Of Christianity":

Posted by: BB Wolf at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (qh617)

149 Leftism has taken over Christianity and Judaism, and a lot of religious people are becoming lefties first.

And this can be attributed in part to the corruption of education. Theology schools have matriculated a hoard of young SJWs who can be readily found leading houses of worship across the land.

Posted by: Uncle Busyhands at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (Dwehj)

150 So in this formulation, religion remains the opiate of the masses.

It's just that it turns out it's more akin to the methadone of ideas, in that it keeps people from falling for of the _really_ bad, society-destroying ideas.

Posted by: ZBBMcFate at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (k7D+q)

151 Polish soccer fans unfurl a 75-foot banner depicting
the Islamic invasion of Europe. At the top of the banner are the words,
""While Europe Is Flooded With An Islamic Plague" in Polish and the
smaller banner continues, "Let Us Stand In Defence Of Christianity":

Posted by: BB Wolf at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (qh617
======================================

That takes guts. I've always liked Poland.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (dFi94)

152 g'early evenin', 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (KCxzN)

153 Do team christian a favor and stay out of the recruitment efforts.
Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (3dOE/)

If I wanted to be popular and tell people what they wanted to hear, I wouldn't be a Christian.

Do you know what Jesus instructed his followers to do with respect to crosses?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (0NdlF)

154 And if you don't believe the orthodoxy, you'll be condemned to death (maybe even real death) look at the weather guy and others that have been fired just for speculating that climate change might no be true and we need to know for sure.

They're going to burn us down.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (Xo1Rt)

155 How timely! The last few years I have been distressed over family members who have abandoned Christianity and reason and converted to Leftism. They no longer relate to Jesus (except maybe their own made-up Jesus image) or truth, spiritual or secular.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (my5Fr)

156

Drudge: 54% of Los Angeles doesn't speak English.

This tells me the vast percentage of illegals are in California.

The state riding the edge of bankruptcy.

Somehow, their economy is in a shambles, even with all the federal teat money their cronies have been shovelling to them.

So much for the bounty of cheap labor.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (oVJmc)

157 Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (0NdlF)

Take up your cross and follow me.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (Xo1Rt)

158 >>>When God Goes Away, Superstition Takes His Place

You think of that all by yourself, buddy?

Posted by: G. K. Chesterton at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (uw9Al)

159 How about some Jello salad? Bundt cake?

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks

Jello is made from hooves and snouts! I have to now go take a Vegan Cleanse just for TYPING the word "Jello." I feel unclean!

Posted by: zombie at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (jBuUi)

160 I always hear from the people who know that the flu vaccine is a crap shoot every year if they guess which strain out of many is going to be the most infectious. Never had one yet and see no reason to break my record.

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (5F+Yd)

161 Polish soccer fans unfurl a 75-foot banner depicting the Islamic invasion of Europe. At the top of the banner are the words, ""While Europe Is Flooded With An Islamic Plague" in Polish and the smaller banner continues, "Let Us Stand In Defence Of Christianity":
Posted by: BB Wolf at November 03, 2015 07:41 PM (qh617)

--The eastern European countries have still-fresh memories of oppression by Soviet invaders; they're not ready to make new memories of Mohammedan invaders.

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (vsbNu)

162 140 118
I'm going to Africa in January. In preparation I've gotten all the vaccines. Is that just faith?

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:34 PM (K4Ejl)

No that's smart. If you take the malaria pills just remember they make you very sensitive to sun. I got my ass burnt to a crisp one time in Central America. Be sure to carry some nausea pills,Phenigan, and diarrhea pills, lomotil.
Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:40 PM (jJRIy)
I've received hepatitis, typhoid and yellow fever shots. I've been advised to take antibiotics along and to take malaria pills. However, I've had some people tell me to just slather on the DEET and sleep under mosquito netting.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (K4Ejl)

163 They always accuse others of it but every libturd I have ever met are filled with rage and hate usually based upon their own mis-conceived notions and ideas. Pure, unadulterated hate. No room for compromise or common sense. The Bush hate is a prime example of their mental illness. As stated earlier, it's about them being in control and having power. Hate is the fuel they operate on to achieve both.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (ej1L0)

164 Neal Stephenson used the idea/virus meme in Snow Crash. It wasn't about liberals but it was there as was an Asian immigrant invasion.

Posted by: Xavier at November 03, 2015 07:45 PM (Qdr3o)

165 "He cites the case of an allegedly atheist rational humanist who goes to a clairvoyant to fix the problems in her life."

In the SF Bay Area, where the local liberal loons look down on the traditionalist Christianity of the heartland as primitive, backward, and ignorant, the "New Age" hooey is just absolutely everywhere. Especially among the Boomers.

What it basically comes down to is this: 1960s leftist campus student rebellionism as religious and philosophial touchstone. If your parents and grandparents believed in something, it must not be any good. Simple as that.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 03, 2015 07:45 PM (noWW6)

166 By the way, I no longer call these people "liberals". They want my freedoms restricted and my personal decisions to be made for me by a stupid bureaucrat. That's not very liberal of them.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 07:45 PM (my5Fr)

167 I take it jello is not on any Muzzies food list.
I like mine with mixed fruit in it

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:46 PM (5F+Yd)

168 153
Do team christian a favor and stay out of the recruitment efforts.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:33 PM (3dOE/)

If I wanted to be popular and tell people what they wanted to hear, I wouldn't be a Christian.

Do you know what Jesus instructed his followers to do with respect to crosses?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (0NdlF)

What more do you want from a non-christian than "I would fight for your rights to believe and
practice within the framework of our constitution."?

There is a point at which some people realize they are doing more harm than good for their cause.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (3dOE/)

169
@160

True. They even admitted that last year's "Flu" shot was for the wrong strain of flu and was a total waste of money.

My doctor axed me four times if I had had one, finally I said just give me one and STFU.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (jJRIy)

170 Theology schools have matriculated a hoard of young SJWs who can be readily found leading houses of worship across the land.

Posted by: Uncle Busyhands at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (Dwehj)
=======================================
I heard someone speak, maybe it was last week, anyway - they had been in a seminary classroom when the question was asked, "Do you believe in God?" Many seminarians indicated they did not. Some see the ministry as a platform for SJW, and some just plain out want to subvert Christianity.
Both Yale and Harvard started out as seminaries, I believe. Now their theology departments are a minefield of communism. There are still Christians that teach there........ in some of the classes.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (dFi94)

171 This tells me the vast percentage of illegals are in California.

The state riding the edge of bankruptcy.

Somehow, their economy is in a shambles, even with all the federal teat money their cronies have been shovelling to them.

So much for the bounty of cheap labor.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at November 03, 2015 07:43 PM (oVJmc)

________

But MSNBC says that CA is doing great and they have a budget surplus and everything.

Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (0LHZx)

172 Tee-hee, Matt Bevin winning the KY governor's race by 40,000 votes. Getting ready to crack open the Maker's Mark.

Posted by: Shinypie at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (3nZXa)

173 on conference call G-D do I hate these

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (DUoqb)

174 135
It's why the Lefties are so hell-bent on banishing Christianity from the public square.

Especially the 10 commandments.

Even if you're not a Christian you can see why most of these are a
good thing for a community, a society. Getting people to buy into not
killing, not coveting other people's stuff, etc.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 07:38 PM (NOIQH)

Exactly. Christianity is not just some idea that tells people they ought to do good things for others, to them. It's the competition. It's a heresy that in their little zealot brains needs to be stamped out, and they won't be happy until everything has been remade in the image of their faith.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (HalrA)

175 More about liberalism as cult and what Professor Peter Singer is doing with his sickly mommy, linked in my sock.

Posted by: andycanuck at November 03, 2015 07:48 PM (HbSdt)

176 167 I take it jello is not on any Muzzies food list.
I like mine with mixed fruit in it
Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:46 PM (5F+Yd)

Vodka's better.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 07:48 PM (kpqmD)

177 Tee-hee, Matt Bevin winning the KY governor's race by 40,000 votes. Getting ready to crack open the Maker's Mark.
Posted by: Shinypie at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (3nZXa)

and who is

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 03, 2015 07:48 PM (DUoqb)

178 161
--The eastern European countries have still-fresh memories of oppression by Soviet invaders; they're not ready to make new memories of Mohammedan invaders.
Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (vsbNu)

Also, parts of eastern Europe were historically occupied by Muslims only a few centuries ago. They made it all the way to Vienna. I'm sure they'd prefer not to repeat that experience.

Posted by: rickl at November 03, 2015 07:49 PM (sdi6R)

179 What more do you want from a non-christian

Why does a non-Christian deserve the benefits of a Christian society?

That is all I'm pointing out. Christianity in the US and the West has rotted away, and we're "enjoying" the result. Turns out child sacrifice doesn't bring prosperity.

There is a point at which some people realize they are doing more harm than good for their cause.

This isn't a popularity contest. Is what I said true, or not?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:50 PM (0NdlF)

180 so. Grammie. You're Pentecostal?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:50 PM (Xo1Rt)

181 I don't get to listen to Prager much but have been listening for many years. The other thing he points out regularly is Christianity and Judaism have their seminaries, most universities have become leftism seminaries.

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:51 PM (5F+Yd)

182 Climate change causes fewer babies. The science is settled. Amen.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:51 PM (BO/km)

183 I heard someone speak, maybe it was last week, anyway - they had been in a seminary classroom when the question was asked, "Do you believe in God?" Many seminarians indicated they did not. Some see the ministry as a platform for SJW, and some just plain out want to subvert Christianity.
Both Yale and Harvard started out as seminaries, I believe. Now their theology departments are a minefield of communism. There are still Christians that teach there........ in some of the classes.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (dFi94)

--The book Goodbye, Good Men described how the homosexualist horde (where I got the term "Lavendar Mafia") converted many Catholic seminaries to "pink palaces."

Posted by: logprof at November 03, 2015 07:51 PM (vsbNu)

184 There is a point at which some people realize they are doing more harm than good for their cause.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (3dOE/)

A lot of times, the best way to be a Christian, to grow the faith, is simply to focus on living it. Let others see it in action and they'll be amazed and want to be part of it.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 07:51 PM (HalrA)

185 >>Also, parts of eastern Europe were historically occupied by Muslims only a few centuries ago.

Bosnian war wasn't that long ago. Nor 9/11, 7/7, and so on.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 07:51 PM (NOIQH)

186 "Tee-hee, Matt Bevin winning the KY governor's race by 40,000 votes."

Bevin? Who Mitch McConnell hates and pulled every available string to defeat?

That's awesome. What a thumb in the eye to the Shy Turtle.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 03, 2015 07:52 PM (noWW6)

187 every libturd I have ever met are filled with rage and hate

It's a prerequisite.

Posted by: Uncle Busyhands at November 03, 2015 07:52 PM (Dwehj)

188 So the leftists pushing their "poison" on others could be considered gateway idiots?

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at November 03, 2015 07:52 PM (m3iiU)

189 139 Flu shots and fluoridated water are commie plots.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 03, 2015 07:40 PM (8ZskC)

Interesting thing about fluoride. Applied to the surface of your teeth, it prevents cavities. Taken internally, it damages your thyroid. In fact it was formerly used as a drug to treat hyperthyroidism and other diseases where the thyroid needed to be shut down.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 07:53 PM (my5Fr)

190 I'm interested in the idea of memes, the idea that ideas are just
communicable diseases -- intellectual viruses spread by the vectors of
speaking or writing or listening or reading.

Ask the book thread Sunday AM. I've read several SFs with meme themes but the only Author I can recall right now is Neal Stephenson.

Posted by: DaveA at November 03, 2015 07:53 PM (DL2i+)

191 every libturd I have ever met are filled with rage and hate

And stupidity. Overwhelming stupidity

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 03, 2015 07:53 PM (DiZBp)

192 179 Why does a non-Christian deserve the benefits of a Christian society?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:50 PM (0NdlF)

What makes a Christian the arbiter of who deserves what in society? Sounds kind of judgy, no?

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:53 PM (3dOE/)

193 184
There is a point at which some people realize they are doing more harm than good for their cause.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:47 PM (3dOE/)

A lot of times, the best way to be a Christian, to grow the faith, is simply to focus on living it. Let others see it in action and they'll be amazed and want to be part of it.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 07:51 PM (HalrA)

Hear. Hear.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:54 PM (3dOE/)

194 The commies infiltrated the church as well. One of their agents confessed to placing hundreds in the priesthood during cold war. A woman agent.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 07:54 PM (BTnAK)

195 KY governor's race

That's a thing? Sounds slippery. Man what a sick sad world.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 07:54 PM (BO/km)

196 I've received hepatitis, typhoid and yellow fever
shots. I've been advised to take antibiotics along and to take malaria
pills. However, I've had some people tell me to just slather on the DEET
and sleep under mosquito netting.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:44 PM (K4Ejl)

That's a good idea, since the Malaria pills have a low rate of success and can give you lots of side effects. Take some Cipro. It's a general purpose antibiotic and if you get the really bad diaraha it will cure it. Also codeine and Advil. Believe it or not, advil is hard to find in a lot of places. I carry Pheigan suppository. If you get really bad nausea, you can not hold a pill down. Iodine is also good. It will purify water or clean your wounds. A, Z pack is good for respiratory problems, and a dose pack of Prednison is good if you get stung or have an allergic reaction to something.
Vaseline and some dry eye lubricants. Band aids, etc.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:54 PM (jJRIy)

197 Men are rapists

Pedophiles should be accepted

How do you reconcile these current en vogue ideas

Posted by: ThunderB at November 03, 2015 07:54 PM (zOTsN)

198 Let's not overlook another factor which permanently and profoundly changed American seminaries: that those enrolled therein had deferments from the Vietnam draft.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (noWW6)

199 Something splodey in London.

Posted by: Boss Moss at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (ccWEC)

200 FWIW: I'm going to Africa on a preaching mission. Which is humbling to me because the church despite poverty and persecution is stronger in Africa than here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (K4Ejl)

201 A lot of times, the best way to be a Christian, to grow the faith, is simply to focus on living it.

I can accept that there are situations for that. But Christianity didn't start with Eleven Disciples quietly minding their own business.

More than anything, our modern society needs a new way of thinking. "Let's tolerate each other" isn't cutting it.

Man needs religion - who is going to offer the alternative to Islam? Secularism/Leftism has surrendered. Who's up?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (0NdlF)

202 This global warming population stuff is all whacked. Norwegians should be over running the planet and Arabs should be about extinct. Arabs have kids like rabbits and Northern Europe is in population decline

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:56 PM (5F+Yd)

203 Christianity hasn't rotted away. It's been cast out of the political arena and many of the public arenas.

Misguided and sometimes evil demons have taken on the appearance of priests and pastors and led their flocks astray.

But genuine, sacrificing yet strong Christians exist in many corners of the country. Places you wouldn't think of and places that you already know.

Get out of the Urban environment and you'll encounter more religious people who live their faith (as best they can) and who truly care about the sinner and understand their weakness.

The true Christian knows we are all sinners. Themselves especially. And are humbled and thankful for the Lord Jesus' sacrifice so that we may be saved from our sin.

We are so delighted that this path exists we can become quite zealous and "fanatic" (where "fan" comes from) that we can become overbearing and seem to be self righteous.

It's only that we've discovered something truly important and life saving and we wish to share it with every one we meet. It's that important.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:56 PM (Xo1Rt)

204 so. Grammie. You're Pentecostal?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:50 PM (Xo1Rt)
=====================================
LOL - Baptist? yup - Evangelical Free Church - yup, yup, and yup for a long time. Now I go to a non-denominational Bible church with a very young pastor and very loud drums. And lots of guitars. Did I mention the loudness of the drums? Very loud drums, but lots of happy young people. Out of maybe 2500 people, I think there are three of us with white hair. Babies - I worship the Lord with babies.....

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:56 PM (dFi94)

205 181
I don't get to listen to Prager much but have been listening for many
years. The other thing he points out regularly is Christianity and
Judaism have their seminaries, most universities have become leftism
seminaries.

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 07:51 PM (5F+Yd)

That's very true. It's essentially become a form of re-education camp that they get people to pay for, where they can train impressionable young minds to reject common sense and follow any form of stupidity.

As Mark Twain once noted, "It takes a lot of education to believe so many things that just ain't so."

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 07:56 PM (HalrA)

206 Re: "theodicy." I could be wrong but God never promised us a rose garden after Eden. His own Son died for us, a horrible death, so that we might have faith of a life after this one.

I know people who think if they live a certain denomination, do good works,etc. that it is like a magic potion to prevent the horror of losing someone young, or cancer, or the horrible things in life.

Never, anywhere, in the Bible is this promise that I am aware of.

Your faith is strengthened by hardship. You lean on God when no one else is there to comfort. I cannot explain how or why, nor do I question, but at my worst grief and sadness (and I miss my Dad and one of my brothers daily), God is there.

I have a great marriage to a good Christian man, raised two great sons, have friends and family...yet, in my worst moments (as I grieve in private), God is there. And He answers, somehow, with peace and comfort. Sometimes even in written word on a trip to a gift shop after a rotten day of stress: "Be happy with what you have while working for what you want." by Helen Keller. This came as a reminder of me to stop waiting for the future to be happy.

Keller also said, regarding faith, " Faith is the strength in which a shattered world shall emerge into light." Not that she ever saw light on this earth...yet "light" is a word you see often in the Bible. "The Word is a lamp to my feet." Psalm 119:105. And Matthew 5:14 and other verses.

Back to the "why would God allow this" question. We don't know. But the opposite of faith in God is an empty black hole and a "this is it." If you have faith in God, in the hardships of life your faith grows and the future does not dim, as there is a life after this one.

My favorite verse, and I memorized many as a child, of which I am grateful for, is this: "I can do all thinks through Christ who strengtheneth me."* Again, KJV (ha)
Philippians 4:13
*Have said this verse during hard times.

Love y'all. xoxo

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (eXl9F)

207 189 139 Flu shots and fluoridated water are commie plots.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 03, 2015 07:40 PM (8ZskC)

Interesting thing about fluoride. Applied to the surface of your teeth, it prevents cavities. Taken internally, it damages your thyroid. In fact it was formerly used as a drug to treat hyperthyroidism and other diseases where the thyroid needed to be shut down.
Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 07:53 PM (my5Fr)

I've always wondered: Which has done more to prevent cavities, fluoridation or flossing? I don't know when flossing was invented. The first I heard about it was as a teenager in the 70s.

Anyway, with fluoride in toothpaste and mouthwash readily available today, as well as fluoride treatments at the dentist, there seems to be no point in putting it in drinking water.

Posted by: rickl at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (sdi6R)

208
In honor of Ace I am going to watch Phantasm tonight.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (iQIUe)

209 I carry Pheigan suppository.

Sounds like something out of Roman mythology.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (FkBIv)

210 Science has become not only the left's religion, but the left's cult. The idea of "settled science" seems to me to be an oxymoron. It also seems (again to me) to be a relatively new phenomenon. And the left owns it. But only the apocalyptic science. Science science seems to have been left untouched.

I posted a comment on this last week that another interesting phenomenon for the left is though it ridicules (for lack of a better term) traditional western religion Judaism and Christianity, it appears to embrace Islam. I posited essentially the same thing that Ace alludes to and that is that a vacuum will be filled and I believe that Islam is as close to a superstition as anything out there in that it is as humanist exalting as is possible and still be considered 'religious'.

A very good secular book that will make even the most fervent atheist make Spock eyebrows is, Just Six Numbers, The Deep Forces That Shape the Universe, written by one of the world's most prominent astrophysicists. He is (as far as I know) not a religious man.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (BZAd3)

211 200
FWIW: I'm going to Africa on a preaching mission. Which is humbling to
me because the church despite poverty and persecution is stronger in
Africa than here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (K4Ejl)

My first cousin is over there now, she's an Anglican priest.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (jJRIy)

212 In high school and early college, I was a typical atheist, full of the standard glib sneers at Christianity. But after a few decades of observing and listening to lefty atheists and Christians, while still an atheist, I've completely reversed as to who is more rational. I merely disagree with the Christian's judgment call on whether certain historical and metaphysical facts are credible. But prog secularists often seem delusional: they deny the reality that stares them directly in the face. The vast majority frighten me, whereas with Christians it's like, well, there's the Westboro Baptists that are fanatics, and that's about it. And they don't advocate violence, like, say Ayers, BLM or animal rights people.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (uw9Al)

213 Man (human beings, all) has two parts to him. The physical part; the body, the hunger for food and comfort and all the material things we desire.

Man also has a metaphysical part, that needs ideas, uplift, morals, a intellectual and emotional part of him/her that knows that we are more than eating, crapping, fornicating animals.

Religion for the ages has provided that. Some religions were constructive, some were silly, most have passed into history. Some survive for a variety of reasons, but largely because they fill a need in people. To examine a religion, examine what it offers, and what its followers expect from it.

Judaism offers the law, a structure of life consistent with the Talmud and what Christians call the Old Testament. Believers (real Jews) expect a life with God in the hereafter.

Christianity offers salvation through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The New Testament. Love God above all things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. He that believes and is baptised, shall be saved. Someone asked, where was the body of Jesus? It is here. The extent of all Christians in the world is the Body of Christ.
Many will hear His words, and reject them, or be seduced by the world.

Islam offers perfectability of Man through following the writings of the Prophet, Mohammed. And then, it gets tricky. Because the writings of Mohammed in the Koran are all kinds of confusing. The Islamic God, Allah, is not the same God as the God of Abraham, Moses, Isaiah and Jesus of Nazareth. He is fickle, harsh and judgmental, much like the harsh deserts where the Islamic faith was born. It has grown into the billions by the sword.

Buddhism is introspective, in that in a way, you become your own god. Through the teachings of Buddha, you may find inner peace in a world full of turmoil which you cannot control. This also fits into Asian societies which have been crowded and populous (relative to the West) through much of recorded history.

Hinduism is pantheistic, and fatalistic, believing in re-incarnation into the next life. Lead a virtuous life, and your next life will be better. Lead a poor life, and your next life will be worse. Eventually, you get to graduate into some kind of better world, but it also fits the society where people are expected to submit to the wills of the powerful. Caste society, where your life is stratified into a somewhat narrow belief as to how you were born.

Secular Liberalism/collectivism is just the latest iteration of the Elites ruling the peasants, with no uplift or promise of a better spiritual world to come. Frankly, as a metaphysical belief system, it is pretty bleak and ugly, especially when you consider some of the prophets and cardinals of this secular religion. Harvey Weinstein, Bill Maher, Rosie O'Donnell, Rachel Maddow.
And the sacraments are booze, drugs, meaningless sex, pornography, bad pop music, abortion, vacuous entertainment, and ultimately a soul-destroying despotism. I give you... Barack Obama. We've all been tempted by some of the above, but as you grow older, you reject it as the poison that it really is.
It looks pretty on TV and in movies, but in real life it seems as dead and ugly as a field of weeds covered in dirty snow.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at November 03, 2015 07:58 PM (RFeQD)

214 >>> Malaria pills have a low rate of success and can give you lots of side effects. Take some Cipro...

Nip, you're making me think that I need to go further north. Like Hudson Bay.

Posted by: fluffy at November 03, 2015 07:58 PM (AfsKp)

215 >>>"When God Goes Away, Superstition Takes His Place"

I would say 90% of ALL people are superstitious (religious and non-religious alike). I'm SUPER superstitious, but I have some degree of self awareness about it.

Posted by: Max Power at November 03, 2015 07:58 PM (q177U)

216 Princeton started as a seminary

Posted by: ThunderB at November 03, 2015 07:58 PM (zOTsN)

217 Norwegians should be over running the planet

====================================

Oh, please, no.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:58 PM (dFi94)

218 204 so. Grammie. You're Pentecostal?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 07:50 PM (Xo1Rt)
=====================================
LOL - Baptist? yup - Evangelical Free Church - yup, yup, and yup for a long time. Now I go to a non-denominational Bible church with a very young pastor and very loud drums. And lots of guitars. Did I mention the loudness of the drums? Very loud drums, but lots of happy young people. Out of maybe 2500 people, I think there are three of us with white hair. Babies - I worship the Lord with babies.....
Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:56 PM (dFi94)
I'm as old as dirt but I like loud drums.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:58 PM (K4Ejl)

219 Love right back to you Christy
Excellent

Posted by: Clarney at November 03, 2015 07:59 PM (hWHYS)

220 @209

Phenergan

http://tinyurl.com/qy7ao3z

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 07:59 PM (jJRIy)

221 Posted by: rickl at November 03, 2015 07:57 PM (sdi6R)

Flossing helps prevent gum disease, fluoride strengthens the enamel of your teeth to help prevent cavities

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 07:59 PM (kpqmD)

222 "Applied to the surface of your teeth, it prevents cavities. Taken internally, it damages your thyroid."

I know individuals with hypothyroidism who have to avoid fluoridated tap water for cooking and drinking for just that reason. A huge bother.

I suspect also that the official government statistics claiming large improvements in dental health from fluoridation are about as methodologically sound as most official government statistics are.

You know, the official government statistics which previously told us that eating more than one egg a month would cause our hearts to explode like water balloons tossed on a cactus. And that we should eat healthy trans-fat margarine instead of toxic butter.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 03, 2015 07:59 PM (noWW6)

223 Oh, more about the debt ceiling deal. Just as I suspected, they didn't actually put a number on it, they just "suspended" it until March 2017. So, Treasury can borrow what it needs to until then, when the debt ceiling will be whatever the debt is then. And then the accounting tricks start until the next deal.

They're apparently too chicken shit to actually say the number, as they need to set it at about $20T, and they're just scared of voting for that actual number.

The trajectory we're on has total public debt doubling roughly every 7+ years, corresponding to two presidential terms. This is how exponential/geometric growth works, which is built into the baseline budgeting system.

Total US debt will be $40T after the end of Hillary's two terms. Hell, if a GOPe candidate won, it would be the same.

You want to stop this exponential runaway, you need to take drastic measures. That means throwing out the uniparty.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at November 03, 2015 08:00 PM (dvuhZ)

224 Everyone needs to remember; Muslims hate Infidels, Unbelievers. Not being Christian or Jewish won't save you. You are considered almost as bad and will be treated thusly.

Watch Europe. We're going to see something unfold that the world has experienced before but never seen by so many in real time.

There's have been population shifts all through time. For whatever reason. People move in and drive those already there out into someone else's territory and so it goes on.

Some fight and whole tribes are lost.

It will be interesting to watch but don't think for a minute that they aren't planning to do the same thing here.

And we will have to fight that or else become chattel or dead.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (Xo1Rt)

225 FWIW: I'm going to Africa on a preaching mission. Which is humbling to

me because the church despite poverty and persecution is stronger in

Africa than here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (K4Ejl)
=======================================

One might say the church BECAUSE of her poverty and persecution is strong. God bless you. Do you need financial support? I could send you a check. I'm serious.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (dFi94)

226 More than anything, our modern society needs a new way of thinking. "Let's tolerate each other" isn't cutting it.

Man needs religion - who is going to offer the alternative to Islam? Secularism/Leftism has surrendered. Who's up?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (0NdlF)

That's a hell of a point, there. But instead of trying to beat our ideas into the heads of others, perhaps what we need to do is look how the Left has gotten so successful and turn their own methods against them. They are challenging us to a battle of ideas, and the way you win these is by undermining the competition. Now the fact that they ever rose to be a genuine challenge is a sick joke, but that's the facts of life.

And from Mark Twain, who Alinsky stole his ideas about mockery from, comes the most powerful means of undermining an idea: Laughter. As one of Twain's characters put it in The Mysterious Stranger: "Laughter is humanity's greatest weapon. Ideas can only be advanced or pushed back slowly, over centuries, but laughter can blow them to rags and atoms at a blast."

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (HalrA)

227 What makes a Christian the arbiter of who deserves what in society? Sounds kind of judgy, no?
Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:53 PM (3dOE/)

Try swapping "Christian" for any other identity - Why does a non-American deserve to benefit from an American society? Why does a criminal deserve to benefit from a law-abiding society?

A Christian society is a judgy one. Every idea, every thought, captive to Christ.

So which would you rather have? A non-judgy secular mess like what we have now, or a judgy Christian society?

I get that you'd prefer the non-judgy Christian one ... but my thesis is that it is unstable and will change into one of the other two.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (0NdlF)

228 Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 07:56 PM (dFi94)
---
Baptist? I thought people who said uffda were Lutherans.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 08:02 PM (uw9Al)

229 "Anyway, with fluoride in toothpaste and mouthwash readily available
today, as well as fluoride treatments at the dentist, there seems to be
no point in putting it in drinking water."

Precisely. If people want it, they can have it for themselves, easily. It doesn't have to be forced on everyone at once. A simple issue of uncoerced, free-market consumer choice.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 03, 2015 08:02 PM (noWW6)

230 Everybody thinks they're rational, turns out it's their brains telling them that.

Posted by: DaveA at November 03, 2015 08:02 PM (DL2i+)

231 Great to see that this idea getting mainstream attention. It's been kicking around the fringes for a while now, but it makes the most sense.

I naively once thought that you could present a liberal with the facts and they would see the light. You're not easily talking a person out of their religion.

Posted by: other joe_mama at November 03, 2015 08:02 PM (13W9U)

232 Bevin? Who Mitch McConnell hates and pulled every available string to defeat?

That's awesome. What a thumb in the eye to the Shy Turtle.
*******
The very one. We can't believe it!!!
Suck it, turtle.

Posted by: Shinypie at November 03, 2015 08:03 PM (3nZXa)

233 Nip, you're making me think that I need to go further north. Like Hudson Bay.

Posted by: fluffy at November 03, 2015 07:58 PM (AfsKp)

Eagle Scout, Be Prepared. I carry a full doop kit for just about anything I can imagine happening where ever I go.

My wife refused to take my lomotil when she had violent diarrhea in Egypt. On the second day I insisted, she was getting so dehydrated I was worried.

She now is a believer.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 08:03 PM (jJRIy)

234
OT : You would think that Derek Jeter with all his fame and fortune would have been able to snag a hot wife. Poor guy.

http://tinyurl.com/q4pfrm2

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 03, 2015 08:03 PM (ODxAs)

235 Great post Ace... and comments. I have many lefties in my family. I don't get the vitriol they summon when one of their beliefs are not affirmed. It is a level of rage that is unmatched in Christians... but of course, if you say that,... Crusades!

Posted by: Yip at November 03, 2015 08:03 PM (e7T6D)

236 225 FWIW: I'm going to Africa on a preaching mission. Which is humbling to

me because the church despite poverty and persecution is stronger in

Africa than here.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 07:55 PM (K4Ejl)
=======================================

One might say the church BECAUSE of her poverty and persecution is strong. God bless you. Do you need financial support? I could send you a check. I'm serious.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (dFi94)
Wow. That's amazing Grammie. I'm finding it strangely dusty in here. Thank you. I'll get back to you on that.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 08:04 PM (K4Ejl)

237 I find religion comforting in knowing " why". I can begin each day knowing. I don't have to machinate on the foundation 24/7.
It allows me to focus on actually creating or Doing.

Posted by: Clarney at November 03, 2015 08:04 PM (hWHYS)

238 Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (Xo1Rt)

What is interesting is that there used to be an American Tribe... which was the one I fought for...

IMO the Battle Cry should not be Christianity against Islam...

It should be Western Civilization against Islam...

Freedom vs. submission (which is what Islam means)....

But our Leaders and Media will not put it into that context.

Posted by: BB Wolf at November 03, 2015 08:04 PM (qh617)

239 >>>So which would you rather have? A non-judgy secular mess like what we have now, or a judgy Christian society?

Secularists like to pretend to be non judgy when they're not in positions of power.

It's a form of taqiyya. It's a pile of horseshit.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 08:05 PM (uw9Al)

240 226 Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (HalrA)

And that, I am down with, too. There is no need for me to be a true-believer to be down with the struggle against the left and Islam. Some are fighting an unnecessary side-battle.

227 I get that you'd prefer the non-judgy Christian one
... but my thesis is that it is unstable and will change into one of the
other two.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:01 PM (0NdlF)

Quite the contrary and I am in agreement with your thesis. I disagree that I need to convert to help create a better christianity-based society.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 08:05 PM (3dOE/)

241 I love watching conservative atheist, ace, kneel down before his largely religious readers and tell them how special their ridiculous beliefs are.

The only reason Christianity hasn't ruined America is because we wrote it out of the Constitution and created a separation between church and state. If you want to introduce ideas from your bronze age (or newer) religious texts, go for it. You'll just have to do so on the merits of the idea and not claim it's a magic book that produced them.

Say what you want about global warming and gender wage gaps. Seriously, say what you will. Nobody is claiming God announced these things. They are supported by evidence that you can discount, or accept. Argue your point. You can't argue against religion because it's irrational at the outset. These are magic books written by perfect beings. Or so we are to believe. On the scale of credentials, that makes a Nobel prize look like a participation ribbon.

Secularists have to actually support their beliefs. And so should everyone else. Liberal or conservative. Religion is antithetical to freedom and reason. Two things I thought smart military bloggers held in esteem.

Posted by: Seattle Slough at November 03, 2015 08:06 PM (mCz8+)

242 There has been a few stories on some of the muzzy overwatch sites Christian churches have been turned over or are planned to muzzy immigrants. I could see one thinking it's the right thing to do but these are not going to be grateful recipients. This is a invading population going to take over what they want and to destroy Christians, they don't need any help to do it.

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 08:06 PM (5F+Yd)

243 Baptist? I thought people who said uffda were Lutherans.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 08:02 PM (uw9Al)
===========================================
I'm from the Black Sheep side of the family.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:06 PM (dFi94)

244 Stoaty Weasel has some interesting comments about old ladies getting raped in Germany by refugees. It's pretty scary.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at November 03, 2015 08:07 PM (iQIUe)

245 Laughter is humanity's greatest weapon.

I've always thought so.

Posted by: Nelson Muntz at November 03, 2015 08:07 PM (FkBIv)

246 What makes a Christian the arbiter of who deserves what in society? Sounds kind of judgy, no?

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 07:53 PM (3dOE/)

Read the link in my post at #67.

Judgmental is not a bad thing, that's an idea that the Left has planted in us, in order to undermine reason. Our whole philosophy is underpinned by the belief that there are objective truths that can be known. The Left's philosophy is based on the idea that in human events, there is no objective truth. The two are incompatible, so what did they do?

They made using reason a hate crime. Be judgmental, there are things that deserve to be judged.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:07 PM (HalrA)

247 God so loves the world he let his only son be tortured to death that we might all have eternal life.

Ever watch your kid struggle with something? I watched my own kids after what is now about twenty surgeries. One whole week I thought my first born son six months old had a brain tumor. The God of all watched his son tortured to death. His son while the nails where driven home said...forgive them they know not what they do. When the spear pierced Jesus side, it pierced not just his heart, but the heart of the trinity. Point being we aren't the only ones suffering in this mess.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 08:08 PM (BTnAK)

248 Ebola, for example, is a disease that tends to kill its host too quickly to spread as far as, say, the Spanish flu, which killed millions.

There was something interesting about 'peak' Ebola. Until someone pointed out the new cases doubled every eight days and confronted the powers that be with that inconvenient truth, new cases doubled every eight days. Someone pointed out that entire countries would be dead in little over a year, and things got serious.

The person who pointed out the truth behind the math was vilified, of course. But new cases trickled to a stop.

I think our lot in life is to vilified, but not ignored. Wish someone could change that. Being vilified for having a brain, being cursed and prosecuted as an extremist doesn't cut it with me.

Posted by: se pa moron at November 03, 2015 08:08 PM (7v/r5)

249 There is nothing more antithetical to the idea of America than Islam

Posted by: Clarney at November 03, 2015 08:08 PM (hWHYS)

250 I was baptized Lutheran (I know but I am Swedish so . .) raised Methodist (go figure. My mother was confused) then finally Evangelical Free.

We had to drive out in the country to go to the church.

I learned a lot about the bible. I always resisted publicly expressing my faith. Can't explain why. Then I drifted away and then I drifted back when I got into a couple of very scary life threatening situations one was an almost out of body experience that caused me to know there's something else out there.

As I've gotten older I've become more comfortable telling others what Christianity is all about and then letting them decide what they want to do. Still don't have a home church though.

I probably should find one before I croak. But I believe it's not necessary. God knows what's in my heart the bad and the good.

I make a bad enemy but you have to work to become one. I make a good friend and I'll give you the shirt off my back if you ask. (and you need it).

For many years I never felt threatened anywhere until recently I've decided that the devil is on the loose and God wants me to be prepared to protect myself and others.

I've taken up the sword with reluctance but with purpose.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:08 PM (Xo1Rt)

251 245 Laughter is humanity's greatest weapon.

I've always thought so.
Posted by: Nelson Muntz at November 03, 2015 08:07 PM (FkBIv)

Didn't C.S. Lewis say something about the devil hating laughter?

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 08:09 PM (K4Ejl)

252 I'll get back to you on that.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 08:04 PM (K4Ejl)
=====================================

You know where to find me. I'm usually in the corner making socks.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:09 PM (dFi94)

253 And too, too many agnostics or atheists make no distinction between a Christian and a Evangelical Christian. Nothing wrong with the latter, but seems to me a lot of the atheists I run into had a Evangelical moment in teenage years and rejected it and therefore, all of it. Can't see the forest for the trees. Which fits nicely with school and the teaching of everything as equal and then college which actively tries to tear down truths and gives kids that smugness that they see through everything because now they have that new, kewl insight and shit..... except... not so much.

Posted by: Yip at November 03, 2015 08:09 PM (e7T6D)

254 Uh, if gossip blogs are to be belived, Jeters been spreading the herp all over (Bing "Derek Jeter Herpes Tree")...

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 08:09 PM (NOIQH)

255 This works really good if you read these lines in the voice of Agent Smith (The Matrix):

I'm interested in the idea of memes, the idea that ideas are just communicable diseases -- intellectual viruses spread by the vectors of speaking or writing or listening or reading.

Some bugs are good -- like the good bacteria in your gut -- and are symbiotic and healthy for the host.

Others are deadly.

Posted by: DB at November 03, 2015 08:09 PM (cdCFg)

256
I remember during the 1988 presidential race, when Dukakis picked Lloyd Bentsen, Democrats were saying "We've got the Massachusetts-Texas connection again!" i.e., Kennedy and Johnson.

It's as if simply duplicating the ephemeral characteristics of a previous success was enough to duplicate the success as well.

That's "magical thinking," like "If I wear my lucky socks tonight I'll get a raise at Friday's evaluation."
Posted by: BeckoningChasm

It also shows glaring historical ignorance because without massive voter fraud Kennedy/Johnson would've lost.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at November 03, 2015 07:21 PM (awspb)

That, and the fact that Bentsen had already beaten GHW Bush in an election before (1970 Senate race)

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 03, 2015 08:10 PM (o98Jz)

257
Secularists have to actually support their beliefs.

Or just fill mass graves with the people who get in the way.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at November 03, 2015 08:10 PM (oVJmc)

258 Posted by: Seattle Slough at November 03, 2015 08:06 PM (mCz8+)

Magical beliefs...

Like the one that pretty much started with a guy counting Tree Rings in Siberia??? or a very few select Trees????

And from those special trees, he was able to tell us all about the Past, and the End of the World to come...

That belief system??? Global Warming...

Posted by: BB Wolf at November 03, 2015 08:10 PM (qh617)

259 Quite the contrary and I am in agreement with
your thesis. I disagree that I need to convert to help create a better
christianity-based society.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 08:05 PM (3dOE/)

Keep your heart open, listen to the voice of your conscience, and use the reason that (at least I believe) God gave you. The rest will follow, in time. Nobody stays lost who honestly searches for truth.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:11 PM (HalrA)

260 Posted by: Seattle Slough at November 03, 2015 08:06 PM

Ladies and gentleman, Exhibit A.

Posted by: Uncle Busyhands at November 03, 2015 08:11 PM (Dwehj)

261 I don't know how much Dennis Prager you are listening to or reading, Ace but I think you'd enjoy his stuff.

He has been saying leftism is a religion for as long as I've known of him.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 03, 2015 08:11 PM (ZY2zO)

262 246 They made using reason a hate crime. Be judgmental, there are things that deserve to be judged.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:07 PM (HalrA)

The point made was, paraphrasing, only Christians can decide who benefits from a Christianity-based society.

That is horseshit.

Sure, certain acts can and should be judge, whether through the lens of religion and/or a social compact (whether it be based in religion or not).

That's a mighty stretch from saying only the religious deserve to benefit from a Christianity-based society (assuming that to be the case).

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 08:11 PM (3dOE/)

263 217 -Grammie Norwegians ....oh please no
Are you Swedish by chance?

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 08:12 PM (5F+Yd)

264 I used to think that "Do unto other others..." was a good rule to live by until I realized that others did not live by that rule and would do unto me whatever they wanted unless otherwise stopped. So sometimes you have to do unto them first.

Seriously though I think the golden rule is a great way to lead your life but don't be naive about it.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 08:12 PM (BO/km)

265 I am with you BC.

Posted by: Clarney at November 03, 2015 08:12 PM (hWHYS)

266 >>IMO the Battle Cry should not be Christianity against Islam... It should be Western Civilization against Islam...
Freedom vs. submission (which is what Islam means)....

Exactly!
But they've already declared Christianity-infused western society the worst. They can't distinguish the two; they hate BOTH.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 08:13 PM (NOIQH)

267 The Church of Hector.

Posted by: Uncle Busyhands at November 03, 2015 08:13 PM (Dwehj)

268 I was baptized Lutheran (I know but I am Swedish so . .) raised
Methodist (go figure. My mother was confused) then finally Evangelical
Free.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:08 PM (Xo1Rt)

=====================================

Swedish AND Free Church. I knew I liked you.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:13 PM (dFi94)

269 Posted by: Clarney at November 03, 2015 08:08 PM (hWHYS)

Islam is surrender.

The Christian belief is that God gave us free will so that we could/would decide to worship him of our own and not by command.

This confuses some. Why does God allow so much evil?

Most evil is created by men/women who are separated from God and themselves.

One rule; Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Ten commandments.

If we obeyed just the rule, the world would be a paradise of love and happiness. With little to fear.

But there's always some who cannot see this or believe that it doesn't apply to others.

They must be stopped.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:13 PM (Xo1Rt)

270 Funny how it was actually a Christian culture that got got us out of the ooze of primordial magical thinking and let to Western and American rational/secular values. Western exceptionalism, we might call it, with American exceptionalism being the greatest.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at November 03, 2015 08:14 PM (dvuhZ)

271 Didn't C.S. Lewis say something about the devil hating laughter?

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 08:09 PM (K4Ejl)

I imagine he would have. Just look at his minions in the Modern Left. They're always "we're serious, I mean it! This is serious! This is life and death, apocalypse if you don't do what we say!" Now look at the man who they hate the most: Ronald Reagan. He laughed at them and made them look like the idiots they are.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:14 PM (HalrA)

272 Torquewrench, how do your friends with hypothyroidism avoid fluoride? I developed hypothyroidism after our community began fluoridating our water (and I am not the only resident who gained 40 lbs after fluoride was introduced). The water filters I have found all promise to NOT remove fluoride. I think the bottled water I buy doesn't have it since it is filtered by reverse osmosis, but that's expensive.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 08:14 PM (my5Fr)

273 Posted by: Seattle Slough at November 03, 2015 08:06 PM (mCz8+)

Everything old is new again!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 03, 2015 08:14 PM (4ErVI)

274 Grammie Norwegians ....oh please no

Are you Swedish by chance?

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 08:12 PM (5F+Yd)
========================================

Swedish with a hint of Norwegian. Shhhhh......we try not to talk about that part.

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:14 PM (dFi94)

275 Theodicy? Theidiocy!!!

Posted by: Bill R. at November 03, 2015 08:15 PM (bqml4)

276
162
Nlurker, insure to take the malaria pills *and* deet or similiar. You do.not.want. to contract malaria.

Posted by: Solomon Kane, also delurking at November 03, 2015 08:15 PM (736cy)

277 ace, look up "egregore"

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 08:15 PM (Uk9e2)

278 Quite the contrary and I am in agreemen t with your thesis. I disagree that I need to convert to help create a better christianity-based society.

I didn't say you needed to convert.

However, a society full of non-Christians wanting the benefits of a Christian society is not going to create a Christian society.

At best, they can build a non-Christian imitation of a Christian society, with the goal of getting the material benefits of a Christian society. It'll go to hell within a generation, in both senses.

Christianity demands body and soul. Holding back one's soul is the same as rejecting it.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:16 PM (0NdlF)

279 They must be stopped.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:13 PM (Xo1Rt)

There is a verse in the New Testament where Jesus told his followers to sell their cloaks and buy swords. As the famous chapter from Ecclesiastes tells us, there is a time and place for every purpose under heaven.

Violence is never to be preferred, but when the only way out is through, you've got to do what you've got to do.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:16 PM (HalrA)

280 I think ace is being a bit too general when he talks about Leftism and religion. Leftism and environmentalism are specifically Christian heresies, perversions of the Christian faith that could have arisen ONLY in the Western post-Christian era. That is why the Left hates Christianity far more than any other world religion - its not because the practitioners of other faiths are non-white (look at the indifference of the Left to Islamic and Communist persecution of non-white Christians.)

Remember, modern leftism began in 1789 and was very pointed right from the start about its' wish to replace Catholicism with its' own narratives, heroes and holy days. The narrative of Fallen Man tempted by demons (the demons being us), but redeemed through faith, the promise of a coming Paradise which will happen when the chaff (again, us) is separated from the wheat - it's mirror___ Christianity, the Christian story distorted and cast in secular terms. It's not a distortion of Buddhism or Hinduism because those faiths have entirely different POVs.

So Christianity is hated because it competes with leftism in a way other religions do not. The really annoying thing is that leftist Christians don't see that. They really seem to think they can serve both God and Caesar, although the entire history of leftism demonstrates that Caesar is always a jealous god and will brook no others.

Posted by: Donna&&&&V. (brandisher of ampersands) at November 03, 2015 08:17 PM (P8951)

281 http://tinyurl.com/yuvg4v

Read Moldbug already. Please.

Posted by: a phoenician sailor at November 03, 2015 08:17 PM (lyAyN)

282 252 I'll get back to you on that.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 03, 2015 08:04 PM (K4Ejl)
=====================================

You know where to find me. I'm usually in the corner making socks.
Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:09 PM (dFi94)

But just left ones.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 08:17 PM (kpqmD)

283 Slough's a multi-blog troll from way back.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 08:18 PM (kpqmD)

284 That's a mighty stretch from saying only the religious deserve to benefit from a Christianity-based society (assuming that to be the case).
Posted by: rebel flounder at November 03, 2015 08:11 PM (3dOE/)

Muslims are religious. They don't deserve to benefit from a Christian society.

They may deserve to benefit from a Christianity-based society, but will quickly transform it into an Islamic one if let in. Good luck fighting a religious war without a religion!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:18 PM (0NdlF)

285
Honestly, I'm not convinced by the idea of "leftism is religion". Religion implies a code of conduct, a way of living that prepares one for the afterlife. Yet leftism isn't concerned with what comes after.

Everything I've observed about leftists both in history and the present day is that the whole point of leftist dogma is slavery, misery and slaughter. They ENJOY the thought of killing kulaks (or whatever new epithet they create for the "other" that they believe is deserving of death). They DON'T CARE about what happens afterwards, as long as they get to shoot a few political opponents in the back of the neck.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 03, 2015 08:20 PM (o98Jz)

286 Seriously though I think the golden rule is a great way to lead your life but don't be naive about it.

Posted by: freaked

All the major religions have something similar to The Golden Rule.

Yes, people will sometimes take advantage of you. So what? Did you think this was going to be easy?

None of us get out of here alive. But through the Grace of God, which we have done nothing to earn, we may live again.

How will you live your life? Jealously guarding every second, every moment for yourself, or living the example life that outwardly shows your inner self and belief? We are not saved by Acts, but our beliefs and faith should lead us to that.

There is a world of hurt out there. Who you gonna call?

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at November 03, 2015 08:20 PM (RFeQD)

287 But they've already declared Christianity-infused western society the worst. They can't distinguish the two; they hate BOTH.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 08:13 PM (NOIQH)

But they hate Islam less because it's not a product of Western Civilization, which they hate with a madman's fervor. They see the world as inherently fair, a true roulette wheel, and we've been on a winning streak since the Trojan War. They believe that first and foremost, they have to destroy us - and once they do, the world will be fair.

In their madness, they think it a useful tool they can use to tear down the West, then put away when it's served its purpose. They think they can unleash Chaos to do their will and shove the genie back in the bottle when they're done. Chaos, for its part, is rubbing its hands gleefully. It's going "Yes, release my bindings, I'll do what you want, for realsies." It's a lot bigger, a lot older, and a lot trickier than they are. As the old saying goes, old age and treachery beats youth and idealism every time.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:20 PM (HalrA)

288 But just left ones.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 03, 2015 08:17 PM (kpqmD)
============================================

You just made me laugh. Such sweet memories of Grandma and her sock form. LOL

Posted by: grammie winger, Fair Trade Socks at November 03, 2015 08:20 PM (dFi94)

289 Grammie - Swedes are the only people on the planet I've ever heard of complaining about Norwegians

I'm out. I get up at 0345hrs.
good night horde.

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 08:21 PM (5F+Yd)

290 Heh. Just turned on 'Zoolander.'

Trump appears in the first few minutes. Funny to see him there now.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at November 03, 2015 08:21 PM (oVJmc)

291 Posted by: a phoenician sailor at November 03, 2015 08:17 PM (lyAyN)

Atheism has yet to be proved useful for survival.

Religion has.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:21 PM (Xo1Rt)

292 But they hate Islam less

No, they love it. They are liars, and they love anything that fights against the truth.

Anything to drown out righteous judgement.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:23 PM (0NdlF)

293 What channel pappy?!!

Posted by: Clarney at November 03, 2015 08:23 PM (hWHYS)

294 "Torquewrench, how do your friends with hypothyroidism avoid fluoride?"

As you do. Bottled water of a type certified to contain no fluoride.

(Much bottled water is just municipally sourced, and has been treated in the same manner as all other municipal water, including being fluoridated. Some of that is then microfiltered, but that process will not remove fluoride. Neither will those Brita filter pitchers which are very common around this neck of the woods.)

Posted by: torquewrench at November 03, 2015 08:23 PM (noWW6)

295 285 - just because it's a religion, Islam has slavery, harsh judgment, murdering unbelievers

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 08:23 PM (5F+Yd)

296 Posted by: torquewrench at November 03, 2015 08:23 PM (noWW6)

Sounds to me like there could be a market for clearly labeled non-fluoridated bottled water.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 03, 2015 08:24 PM (4ErVI)

297 What channel pappy?!!

Sorry, recorded.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at November 03, 2015 08:24 PM (oVJmc)

298 Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:21 PM

Read the whole thing.

Posted by: a phoenician sailor at November 03, 2015 08:25 PM (lyAyN)

299 Make no mistake, there's been plenty of those that have cloaked themselves in religion and proceeded to lay waste to God's people.

But they don't last long. And usually come to a bad end or fade away to be forgotten. Which is why that sort of thing repeats.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:25 PM (Xo1Rt)

300 Honestly, I'm not convinced by the idea of "leftism is religion". Religion implies a code of conduct, a way of living that prepares one for the afterlife. Yet leftism isn't concerned with what comes after.

If you use that definition. An alternative definition is that religion is practiced belief.

There is organized religion; and there is disorganized religion.

Leftism is a disorganized and irrational practiced belief that starts with the rejection of truth and knowledge. It has many forms, but one goal - no truth.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:25 PM (0NdlF)

301 No, they love it. They are liars, and they love anything that fights against the truth.

Anything to drown out righteous judgement.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:23 PM (0NdlF)

Because it drowns out their conscience, which tells them exactly how wretched they really are.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 08:26 PM (HalrA)

302 Secularists have to actually support their beliefs.
And so should everyone else. Liberal or conservative. Religion is
antithetical to freedom and reason. Two things I thought smart military
bloggers held in esteem.

Posted by: Seattle Slough at November 03, 2015 08:06 PM (mCz8+)

I haven't seen you in a while. I guess you have commenting with your friends over at Daily Kos?
Go back.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 03, 2015 08:27 PM (jJRIy)

303 Thanks, Torquewrench! You're always so helpful!

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 08:27 PM (my5Fr)

304 Nood up.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:27 PM (0NdlF)

305
295 285 - just because it's a religion, Islam has slavery, harsh judgment, murdering unbelievers

Posted by: Skip at November 03, 2015 08:23 PM (5F+Yd)

Actually, mohammedanism has slavery, harsh judgement and murder because it's a political system. It's just masquerading as a religion, using the "religious" rhetoric to justify their real love, which is slaughter.

Explains a lot about the leftist affinity for mohammedans.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 03, 2015 08:27 PM (o98Jz)

306 I agree with Mark Steyn that the grandchildren of today's atheists and agnostics (not that there will be that many, since atheism seems to go hand in hand with a lack of interest in procreation - another reason, why, from an evolutionary standpoint, it strikes me as maladoptive.) will not be atheists and agnostics themselves. They'll be praying to Allah.

Posted by: Donna&&&&V. (brandisher of ampersands) at November 03, 2015 08:27 PM (P8951)

307 My statement stands.

Atheism has not shown itself to be an aid to the preservation of life.

Religions have. (I modified that because some consider Islam a Religion. It is not. It is a militaristic/political creed aimed at the enslavement of the world by force.)

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:29 PM (Xo1Rt)

308 They work with Islam because they think they can partner with the enemy of *their* enemy, Christianity. The fools have no idea that they are useful idiots who will be betrayed as soon as they've helped Islam take out the competition.
Just looking at Iran --- they crave chaos, they think it will bring their 12th Imam.

It's all so freakin obvious, and the Left's willingness to commit cultural suicide on our behalf is maddening.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 08:29 PM (NOIQH)

309 'Yes, people will sometimes take advantage of you. So what?'

I wasn't think of people taking advantage of me as much as people who want to kill me. Those folks want to do bad things unto me.

Posted by: freaked at November 03, 2015 08:30 PM (BO/km)

310 The funniest comments are those which say that those icky Christians are so silly to believe in something they can't see, but then say that they like Judeo-Christian values. From whence commeth?

One Christian principle that is sacrosanct is that "by their fruits shall ye know them." IOW, all those Judeo-Christian values that have preserved society and worked for peace and declared that helping the widow and orphan are moral good came from somewhere, were not formed in a vacuum. For some reason folks like the fruits but can't stand the tree.

Makes very little sense.

Perhaps you don't understand the tree, can't see past the bark and all those lousy falling leaves every fall, but why cut it down when you know it will bring the good fruit? Maybe it would be better to realize that perhaps you don't understand the tree very well, but maybe it is worth learning about because of what it offers.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: tcn in AK at November 03, 2015 08:33 PM (+YMhA)

311 trust but verify.

I give everyone I meet the benefit of the doubt and am friendly. But I always watch their hands and stay out of reach until I get to know them better.

This is why Islam is so problematic. They believe they will go to heaven just by killing me, and infidel. They're beliefs are totally inimical to my existence unless I surrender to them.

In certain situations I might even pretend to that surrender so that I may escape and become a thorn in their side.

God would forgive me the untruth with that as the reason.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:36 PM (Xo1Rt)

312 For years, FWIW, I have contended liberalism is treated as a religion by liberals. Had an argument with a friend in college who was a very devout Christian. She said she KNEW she would go to Heaven when she passed away if she continued to live a devout life.

I acknowledged her BELIEF but suggested it was her belief, and not a proven or knowable fact. She kindly told me she KNEW I was wrong and she was right. No rationality beyond that, she just KNEW.

At least she did not think I was evil or dislike me because I did not share her belief/knowledge. She was more kind of bemusedly sorry for those who did not believe as she did.

Posted by: RM at November 03, 2015 08:40 PM (Sj3r3)

313 Secular Liberals don't prefer Islam to Christianity. We just don't. They are equally ridiculous. Equally incredible. And, in the wrong hands, equally poisonous.

The practitioners of Islam are far, far worse than Christians for the most part in the modern era. That's obvious. But we don't have one of our two political party beholden to Islam. So it's not really a day to day issue in the American Political landscape. No one is trying to force Islam down my kid's throats at the public school they attend. That's not true of Christianity.

I'm for a strongly secular nation. Regardless of what wacky religious beliefs are being presented as fact. I'm as opposed to Christianity as I am to Scientology and Islam as far as public policy is concerned. I'm as anti Mormon as I am anti astrology. I'm consistent in that regard.

Posted by: Seattle Slough at November 03, 2015 08:43 PM (mCz8+)

314 Memes, both good ones and bad ones, want to survive.

They fight other memes for space and dominance in your brain.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 08:47 PM (MQEz6)

315 I never heard of theodicy, but it sounds like "The Problem of Evil", a philosophy question ... if God is all good, why does he allow evil to exist?

The general answer is .. Free Will. If man (or spirit) never had to choose to do good, he would not be free. I suppose relationships are an example of that, or capitalism, or federalism.

Satan was originally the angel of light, the bright and morning star. But he wanted to rise to the throne ... "darkness was found in him", I think is the quote. That was the first heaven and earth. Then there was Adam, the first Adam, made perfect, but he chose to follow Eve when she was deceived. So sin entered the blood of all men, till JC got 23 pure dominant chromosomes direct from God, divine conception.

Now by accepting JC as lord, we get legal authority over evil, but it is still a mental struggle. "Oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death? For that which I would I do not, and what I would not, that do I" Romans is much about the legal power of the Christian, and the struggle to act accordingly.

But free will is why evil exists, even from the government point of view. A more Christian based country can allow more free will, and have a great country. A more atheist, or PC religion based country needs ever more government control to force obedience. Certainly all religions are not equal, and even the distortions to Christianity did not kill it. Fortunately texts were kept so reformations to intolerance managed to succeed. Reading is still the best way to get hold of the base concepts, which many churches would probably reject.

Posted by: Illiniwek at November 03, 2015 08:48 PM (1XT+t)

316 Posted by: Seattle Slough at November 03, 2015 08:43 PM (mCz8+)

Example of this forcing Christianity down your childrens throat?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 08:49 PM (Xo1Rt)

317 Ace-

As an agnostic what you see as an unbeliever in the Judeo-Christian claims is a "useful myth". So the converse would identify progressivism as a "dangerous" or "toxic myth". That is beneficial for society for those who don't believe to recognize the utility of truth claims of others that serve the unbeliever. Christians would view this utility in a fallen Creation as "General Grace".

Posted by: Minuteman at November 03, 2015 08:52 PM (Kf4oD)

318 debt jumped 339 billion

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 08:54 PM (Uk9e2)

319 Faith gives you strength, but not for free.

The price is reduced freedom of thought.

If you believe something, in the absence of evidence or contrary to evidence, then that belief is in command of your mind.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 08:58 PM (MQEz6)

320 slough, if you can't distinguish among those beliefs, you haven't looked into things very far

I'm a pluralist, but secularism is a vacuum and leads directly to an authoritarian and increasingly totalitarian State

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 08:59 PM (Uk9e2)

321 The general answer is .. Free Will
---
Ahem!

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 09:02 PM (GMIOa)

322 320,

Maybe Authoritarianism does not come from secularism, maybe it comes from religion pretending to be secularism.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:03 PM (MQEz6)

323 Morals and ethics are ideas created by people.

That might be wrong, but all the evidence says otherwise.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:06 PM (MQEz6)

324 Authoritarianism comes from degeneration of natural hierarchy. Every attempt in history to deny the differences between men has been accompanied by authoritarianism.

Posted by: a phoenician sailor at November 03, 2015 09:07 PM (lyAyN)

325 Fine essay Ace.

Posted by: Rancid Penis at November 03, 2015 09:08 PM (rgIC0)

326 >>>The price is reduced freedom of thought.

If you believe something, in the absence of evidence or contrary to evidence, then that belief is in command of your mind.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 08:58 PM (MQEz6)
---
What are some of these thoughts Christians are not free to think?

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 09:11 PM (my5Fr)

327 the definitions sure are sliding around

secularism is the rigidly legal confinement of religious activity to the private sphere

it reduces all religions to functional atheisms by force

i see the logic in that, but it's Freudian repression

there are better options

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 09:11 PM (Uk9e2)

328 I think humans will eventually form rational and peaceful and good societies without the need to invent higher authorities.

People will eventually embrace their mortality and purge the Promise of Heaven meme.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:11 PM (MQEz6)

329 not a chance

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 09:12 PM (Uk9e2)

330 >>>328 I think humans will eventually form rational and peaceful and good societies without the need to invent higher authorities.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:11 PM (MQEz6)
---
Got any evidence for that?

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 09:13 PM (my5Fr)

331 326,

The Resurrection is a lie.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:15 PM (MQEz6)

332 "purge"

very peacefully, no doubt

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 09:15 PM (Uk9e2)

333 330,

No.

I just think it will happen.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:16 PM (MQEz6)

334 328
I think humans will eventually form rational and peaceful and good societies without the need to invent higher authorities.

People will eventually embrace their mortality and purge the Promise of Heaven meme.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:11 PM (MQEz6)

The problem with not believing in heaven is that it tends to lead people to utopianism, or the even more irrational belief that paradise can be created on Earth. There have been many attempts to do that throughout history, and the number of utopias on Earth is still zero, despite millions of deaths in the pursuit.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:16 PM (HalrA)

335 the Resurrection is true

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 09:17 PM (Uk9e2)

336 332,

Sure. Why not?

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:18 PM (MQEz6)

337 Eman you have your faith. In men. What of death? What then.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:19 PM (BTnAK)

338 335,

That is what you believe. I suggest the meme in your head won't let you think otherwise.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:19 PM (MQEz6)

339 I just think it will happen.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:16 PM (MQEz6)

So in other words, your beliefs are equally irrational.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:20 PM (HalrA)

340 and God is a loving trinity of personas that exists necessarily

cheers

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 09:20 PM (Uk9e2)

341 337,

In death we cease to function and vanish from existance.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:21 PM (MQEz6)

342 I think humans will eventually form rational and peaceful and good societies without the need to invent higher authorities.

People will eventually embrace their mortality and purge the Promise of Heaven meme.
Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:11 PM (MQEz6)

---

That is just wishful thinking. People tend to despair and grab whatever happiness they can get before their coming annihilation. What reason do you have for thinking so?

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 09:21 PM (GMIOa)

343 @319..eman, the price is actually "freedom from worry."

To parse and stew over theological questions is a waste of time (for me), and the opposite of what peace brings you with faith.

Faith is an optimistic view of the unknown. A peace that "passes all understanding." Philippians 4:7

I don't need a math equation to define my faith. I don't need a scientific proof. Jesus spoke to have the faith of a child. As my faith was formed as a child it is not a hard leap for me.

Y'all know a flip side of this supermodel...I can snark with the best of them. I can lose my mind and vent here. Like Flip Wilson, the devil is in me and made me do it...and I laugh and poke and am full of joy as well as whistling past the graveyard of today's politics.

Atheists may throw stones And, I guess, saying that faith is for stupid people (to translate your comment) leaves me like water off a duck. Whatevah. Barbaric isis could threaten me, but my faith will not leave me, thank God. Or, I pray, that if push comes to beheading, I will stay faithful...that is what I hope when I see Christians persecuted around the world and our leaders in DC do nothing.

Others speak of "free will." I believe that as well. Your choice, but peace is out there if you can overcome your own prejudice and intellect. It may not happen overnight, but God is there. xoxo

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at November 03, 2015 09:21 PM (eXl9F)

344 Man has proved himself unworthy of faith, as has government which is by its nature composed of men. If there was not a God to be a receptacle for my faith, I would create one simply to keep it from wandering to things unworthy of it.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:21 PM (HalrA)

345 ha, my head is plenty free -- sometimes, and this might come as a shock -- I experience doubt! in fact, I can probably argue the devil's case better than you, eman

but the kids are out of the tub

Posted by: Feh at November 03, 2015 09:23 PM (Uk9e2)

346 >>I think humans will eventually form rational and peaceful and good societies without the need to invent higher authorities.

Have you seen Tomorrowland?

Posted by: Lizzy at November 03, 2015 09:23 PM (NOIQH)

347 339,

Maybe.

There are people who are good and rational and non-religious. They just are heavily outnumbered.

My faith is they will grow in number and eventually become the model to follow.

So, it is not completely irrational.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:24 PM (MQEz6)

348 People can't help but to be what they are. To remove the impulse for
heaven/utopia from most men you would have to make them something else,
and changing the psychology of the entire species is a utopian scheme if
ever I've seen one. It's unlikely we'll arrive there on our own either,
given the dysgenic direction the world's taking at the moment.

Posted by: a phoenician sailor at November 03, 2015 09:25 PM (lyAyN)

349 In death we cease to function and vanish from existance.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:21 PM (MQEz6)

I wish I could explain exactly how wrong you are, but visions aren't admissable as evidence. As a better artist than myself once phrased it, I've eaten the sun and my tongue has been burned of the taste. The greatest joys in this world are but echoes of the glory of Heaven.

I'll pray that your eyes are opened, though if they are, you'll probably curse the day that they were.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:26 PM (HalrA)

350 Eman, a Christian can certainly examine that statement (a Christian is free to do so). If the Resurrection didn't happen, then there is no reason to remain a Christian.

Christians are not asked to believe the Resurrection contrary to evidence. The problem is the nature of proof of historical events. The evidence for the resurrection is similar to the evidence for, say, Lincoln's assassination. I don't doubt the assassination even though the only "proof" I have is the accounts of others since I wasn't there to witness it myself.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 09:26 PM (my5Fr)

351 345,

Letting a thought pass through your mind and even storing it in a safe place is not the test.

The test is full rejection and enduring the punishment the meme will inflict.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:27 PM (MQEz6)

352 I don't doubt the assassination even though the
only "proof" I have is the accounts of others since I wasn't there to
witness it myself.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 09:26 PM (my5Fr)

Most men would not hold to the belief that Lincoln was assassinated, on threat of death, and under torture, if they could get out of it by repudiating that belief. Christ's original apostles, to a man, went to the grave professing their belief. They saw and experienced something extraordinary, people don't die willingly for things that they know are lies.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:29 PM (HalrA)

353 Oh, and eman?

Bless your heart, honey. xoxo (The devil made me do it).

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at November 03, 2015 09:30 PM (eXl9F)

354 Eman that is dissembling. A test by definition isn't full rejection. That's deciding the end game without any test.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:31 PM (BTnAK)

355 Faith gives you strength, but not for free. The price is reduced freedom of thought. If you believe something, in the absence of evidence or contrary to evidence, then that belief is in command of your mind. Posted by: eman
---
But that delusion is one secularists are far more prone to than Christians.

Secularists force themselves into believing all sorts of false things that are contracted by the reality right in front if their faces.

Michael Brown, AGW, Socialism.

They are in love with a narrative, which demands that they deny immediate reality. Christians imho merely make errorss in judgment about what is historically plausible, a much lesser intellectual sin.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 09:32 PM (GMIOa)

356 350,

An assassination does not require the supernatural.

A Resurrection does.

That is the difference.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:33 PM (MQEz6)

357 Also some of the greatest saints where the best at arguments for atheism. Augustine's confessions would do you some good.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:33 PM (BTnAK)

358 Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:11 PM (MQEz6)

Thousands of years of history says; NO.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 03, 2015 09:37 PM (Xo1Rt)

359 So your objection to the resurrection is it supernatural for one to rise from the dead? Weak. Guess you don't read the national inquirer. I thought you had real objections like the problem of evil.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:37 PM (BTnAK)

360 354,

The test is of the strength of your faith and where it comes from.

The only way to see that is to put it fully to the test. I do not want anyone to do that, by the way. I just think if you are infected with a meme, any meme, and you can test it by trying to push it out and the push back will be very informative.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:38 PM (MQEz6)

361 Eman, the arguments against the historical event of the Resurrection are pretty fantastical -- mass hallucinations and such. You pretty much have to say it doesn't matter what all those people witnessed in order to hold the belief that the supernatural doesn't exist.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 09:40 PM (my5Fr)

362 359,

Are you saying the Ressurection was not an act of God?

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:40 PM (MQEz6)

363 Eman you believe words have power. Truth has power. Words without truth well dude that's witchcraft.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:41 PM (BTnAK)

364 361,

You first have to believe the stories are true. You first have to believe there are eyewitness accounts and that they are accurate.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:42 PM (MQEz6)

365 No you are, aren't you?

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:43 PM (BTnAK)

366 Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:38 PM (MQEz6)

I spent 10 years denying my faith. As an agnostic, then an atheist, then several different kinds of pagan. I found my way back into it via the Tao Te Ching, which contains a lot of the same spiritual truth that came from the mouth of Jesus.

If your test is the test, my faith passed it. I could not deny it despite what was, at the time, a very determined attempt to do so.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:43 PM (HalrA)

367 363,

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:43 PM (MQEz6)

368 By the way, eman, I enjoy the challenge of conversations like this. I do hope that this is not at your expense or anything.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 09:44 PM (my5Fr)

369 I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

You don't have any understanding. All you have is memes infecting your brain competing for survival.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 09:44 PM (0NdlF)

370 "Beliefs tend to immunize one against other beliefs."

Philosophical interferon.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 03, 2015 09:45 PM (oKE6c)

371 365,

The Ressurection is most surely a supernatural event.

I think it did not happen.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:45 PM (MQEz6)

372 I'm saying you can't quite convince yourself it didn't happen, apparently but you just don't think God did it. Ps how old are do you have kids?

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:45 PM (BTnAK)

373 370
"Beliefs tend to immunize one against other beliefs."

Philosophical interferon.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 03, 2015 09:45 PM (oKE6c)

And given that some beliefs are demonstrably harmful, such as Utopianism, I'm perfectly happy to keep my own. It's benign.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:46 PM (HalrA)

374 >>>364 361,
You first have to believe the stories are true. You first have to believe there are eyewitness accounts and that they are accurate.
Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:42 PM (MQEz6)
---
In order to believe they are false, you must apply different standards for the reliability of the Biblical record than you would to any other historical account.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 09:47 PM (my5Fr)

375 368,

Thanks, Emmie. I like this talk, too. I hope what I say does not injure you.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:48 PM (MQEz6)

376 The Ressurection is most surely a supernatural event.

I think it did not happen.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:45 PM (MQEz6)

There is more to the world than just what we see, and what our instruments can detect. There may become a day when we do have the capacity to understand it all, but I won't hold my breath. Throughout the entire span of human existence, uncounted billions of sane and sober people have believed in the supernatural. I wouldn't be so quick to write it off as 100% quackery.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at November 03, 2015 09:49 PM (HalrA)

377 374,

No, not really. You can apply the same tests to both stories.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:52 PM (MQEz6)

378 So some random dude. A nobody. Spent like a couple years giving well received speeches. Ran afoul of the local authorities, got executed. And out of nowhere a church rose up that overthrew the Roman empire and still sits on Rome's throne to this day over two thousand years later. That's quite the coinky dink isn't it. What do you suppose the odds are on that?

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 09:53 PM (BTnAK)

379 376,

That is your opinion and you may very well be right.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:54 PM (MQEz6)

380 378,

Pretty good.

Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:57 PM (MQEz6)

381 There is no logical reason for anything to exist. How does a big bang happen out of nothing ... then how does life and awareness happen out of no life? The best science does is say lightening hit primordial soup and voila ... LIFE, awareness, etc.

Belief in some higher intelligence, higher purpose sounds more purposeful than belief we are mere dust. Denying that higher thing seems more limiting to the mind than looking for it. Even science seeks higher structure in the physical realm. But seeking that higher order in the realm of the soul (and "spirit") can be even more fulfilling. Building on old structure is part of that.

Posted by: Illiniwek at November 03, 2015 10:00 PM (1XT+t)

382 375 Eman, not at all.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 10:01 PM (my5Fr)

383 Ok. Let's see you do it. Don't forget when they nail you to the tree all you do is have to forgive them that do it. I'll keep my eye on you. Good luck.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 10:02 PM (BTnAK)

384 eman, re @361, @364, @368. Will you at least admit this is not a trivially dismissed thing. I've listened to Craig and Habermas, and while I disagree, this judgment of theirs is not on a par with, "Socialism works" or "evidence for AGW is real" or "a Christian granny protesting outside a PP is far more deadly than Ayman Al-Zawahiri". Christians don't even register on my delusionality scale when I think of all the harm secularists are doing.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at November 03, 2015 10:02 PM (GMIOa)

385 377 374, No, not really. You can apply the same tests to both stories.
Posted by: eman at November 03, 2015 09:52 PM (MQEz6)

It's weird how the Biblical writers got all the historical, geological, cultural, political, commercial, etc. details accurate down to the minutiae and then threw in some random supernatural events. What's up with that?

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 10:23 PM (my5Fr)

386
As G. K. Chesterton pointed out, when one ceases to believe in God, the problem is not that one believes nothing, but that one will believe anything.

As for the harm secularists can do, I refer people to view Auschwitz, or read "The Gulag Archipelago", or look at that photograph of North Korea at night: all fruits of radical secularist thought.

Posted by: Brown Line at November 03, 2015 10:25 PM (a5bF3)

387 Oh those jolly jokester were just trying to sell copies so they spiced it up. Except they weren't getting paid. Well then they wanted notoriety.
except they kept getting tortured to death and that didn't change their story either. Sooooo. . .

Yeah. I don't think he's that serious. Not nearly as serious about his memes as the apostles were about Jesus.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 10:28 PM (BTnAK)

388 John was the only apostle who died a natural death. Look up how they died. Gruesome torture. But it was all just a dodge, flim flam.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 10:32 PM (BTnAK)

389 387 Simplemind, there's no need to call Eman's motives or integrity into question.

Posted by: Emmie at November 03, 2015 10:49 PM (my5Fr)

390 Richard Weaver wrote Ideas Have Consequences.
Good book, but not very popular. Maybe because he made the obvious arguments- ideas have consequences, duh!- that no one wanted to believe.

Posted by: DB at November 03, 2015 10:52 PM (/x5qi)

391 The problem is thinking of religion and "Progressivism" as functioning on two different scales, making the comparison somehow "bold".
They aren't, and it isn't.
View them both as just competing ideologies, and the continuum between the two is obvious. All that is changed is the source of the revelation and its sanctioned interpreters, from the divine and acknowledged priesthood to the mortal ideologue and central committee on rules.
At which point, what zombie said about Eric Hoffer and mystery religions.

Posted by: Sam at November 03, 2015 11:17 PM (rRqyL)

392 Perhaps not. I read back over his various posts and got the feeling that he was pulling our leg so to speak. But it is hard to tell over the internet, without in person cues, how serious one is being. I dunno, I could say more but it's just more of a feel. I don't intend rudeness but I recognize I did challenge the genuineness of his arguments. Not just that I don't buy them, I think he's not really that into them either. I did just say a rosary for him though.

Posted by: simplemind at November 03, 2015 11:33 PM (BTnAK)

393 328 I think humans will eventually form rational and peaceful and good societies without the need to invent higher authorities.

People will eventually embrace their mortality and purge the Promise of Heaven meme.

Utopianism. You and Marx and all the rest. Hasn't happened yet, how long are you going to keep fucking that chicken?

Posted by: Weirddave at November 04, 2015 12:17 AM (hOD4w)

394 Muslims are religious. They don't deserve to benefit from a Christian society.

They may deserve to benefit from a Christianity-based society, but will quickly transform it into an Islamic one if let in. Good luck fighting a religious war without a religion!
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 03, 2015 08:18 PM (0NdlF)

Jews are religious. They don't deserve . . . .

Scary world you got brewing there.

I don't need religion to know to protect my family or what I value in society.

Posted by: rebel flounder at November 04, 2015 12:21 AM (3dOE/)

395 Neal Stephenson talked about ideas being like viruses in Snowcrash.

The book presents the Sumerian language as the firmware programming language for the brainstem, which is supposedly functioning as the BIOS for the human brain. According to characters in the book, the goddess Asherah is the personification of a linguistic virus, similar to a computer virus. The god Enki created a counter-program which he called a nam-shub that caused all of humanity to speak different languages as a protection against Asherah (a re-interpretation of the ancient Near Eastern story of the Tower of Babel).

Posted by: jpfletcher at November 04, 2015 01:04 AM (qKtfh)

396 "It's weird how the Biblical writers got all the historical, geological, cultural, political, commercial, etc. details accurate down to the minutiae ..."

Emmie, those claims of accuracy re. the context of the time are a long way from granting credibility to the supernatural parts. It's a common thing in fiction writing. (Note, I'm not concluding the bible is fiction either.)

Personally, I think it's possible to think of it as allegory and still remain consistent with the moral principles being illustrated.

Posted by: Another Bob at November 04, 2015 01:08 AM (0Fwzo)

397 I don't know if they're "well educated."

They are well schooled.

We are experiencing a glut of schooling, and a dearth of education.

Posted by: Brett at November 04, 2015 08:26 AM (tB0J6)

398 Muslims are religious. They don't deserve to benefit from a Christian society.

----------------------------
Jews are religious. They don't deserve . . . .

Scary world you got brewing there.

I don't need religion to know to protect my family or what I value in society.
Posted by: rebel flounder at November 04, 2015 12:21 AM (3dOE/)

It is a scary world. But today's society is the result of *your* society, where non-Christians enjoy the benefits of a Christian society, to the point where it ceases to be Christian. You're not happy with that, either.

Let the Jews benefit from their Jewish society, and the Muslims benefit from their Muslim society.

Alternatively, we can cram everyone into one society and fight it out. Is your money on the Muslims or Christians? Or maybe the Jews will sneakily play both sides and come out on top?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 04, 2015 11:09 AM (1D4Ef)

399 And since you find that scary, rebel flounder, are you willing to embrace this?

"Muslims and Jews both deserve to benefit from a Christian society even if that will make the society cease to be Christian"

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 04, 2015 11:15 AM (1D4Ef)

400 Read Mencius Moldbug, and you will understand.

Posted by: Wisdom at November 04, 2015 02:25 PM (0BuWF)

401 It took until the 386th post to get to Chesterton, amazing.

Posted by: Gene Kelly at November 05, 2015 12:46 PM (uSqx+)

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