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Saturday Morning Politics Thread: Santa Clinton [Y-not]
Hillary is going to eliminate college debt!!!
...Clinton's "New College Compact," a 10-year, $350 billion proposal that comes as her Democratic opponents -- including Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley -- push college affordability plans of their own. Clinton is pushing low-interest grants and loans, and offering states incentives to keep college costs down. She said she supports President Barack Obama's proposal for free community college.Exclusive footage of Hillary's future Education Secretary below:
When Bill Ayers observed that "every revolution is impossible until it happens, and then, looking backwards, every revolution appears inevitable," it is safe to say that he did not have in mind any endeavors of conservative Texas governor Rick Perry. But with his 2011 state of the state address, Perry may have launched a revolution of his own. Perry challenged Texas's public universities to craft four-year degrees costing no more than $10,000 in tuition, fees, and books, and to achieve the necessary cost reductions by teaching students online and awarding degrees based on competency. The idea met with skepticism. Andy Brown, who was then chairman of the Travis County Democrats, labeled Perry's "scheme to serve up $10,000 college degrees ... preposterous," adding that "nobody in higher education believes that is even possible." Peter Hugill, a Texas A&M professor who at the time was president of the Texas Conference of the American Association of University Professors, posed the rhetorical question: "Do you really want a stripped-down, bare-bones degree?" Hugill went on to declare that "$10,000 seems to me a number someone pulled out of the air." [snip] But would Perry's plan meet the public's need? One year after the governor's challenge, Texas A&M-San Antonio became the first school to answer the call, announcing a bachelor's degree in information technology costing students just under $10,000 in tuition and fees. Today, eleven other Texas schools have announced $10,000 degree initiatives. The burgeoning revolution has not been confined to the Lone Star State. Apparently, when it comes to higher-education reform, as Texas goes, so goes the country. Florida governor Rick Scott recently asked his state's public universities to craft $10,000 degrees of their own. In May of 2013, Georgia Tech announced an online master's degree in computer science for $7,000, a reduction of 80 percent from the $40,000 price tag charged for its on-campus program. Additionally, in the last year, legislators in Oklahoma and Oregon have begun work to introduce $10,000 degrees in their states.Thanks to this guy:
Krakatoa's Open Thread is still fresh. Use this one for politics.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
I went ahead and posted this because I didn't want our Saturday schedule to get too out of whack. Please feel free to continue to use krakatoa's thread for non-politics discussion.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 08:33 AM (RWGcK)
2
You just wanted to be first.
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 15, 2015 08:36 AM (R8hU8)
3
From the ONT:
697 FUCK YOU JEB. You rancid shitstain on the stale underwear of American politics. I do not wish you ill, I just want you to go away. Pig nosed lopsided trapezoid headed pile of cesspool corn studded turd.
Posted by: Jill Gates at August 15, 2015 05:10 AM (qd6sQ) So you're saying I have a chance?
697 FUCK YOU JEB. You rancid shitstain on the stale underwear of American politics. I do not wish you ill, I just want you to go away. Pig nosed lopsided trapezoid headed pile of cesspool corn studded turd.
Posted by: Jill Gates at August 15, 2015 05:10 AM (qd6sQ) So you're saying I have a chance?
Posted by: Jebba the Hut at August 15, 2015 08:36 AM (22uju)
4
FDR? What a shitty way to start the morning by looking at that commie turd
Posted by: TheQuietMan at August 15, 2015 08:37 AM (DiZBp)
5
I would rather see college debt eliminate Hillary.
Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at August 15, 2015 08:37 AM (ucDmr)
6
Why Is Rick Perry Broke? His 2012 Donors Prefer Ted Cruz.
According to an analysis published by the National Journal on Friday, Cruz has raised more than $895,000 this year from people who supported Perry's 2012 presidential campaign. Perry has raised less than half that amount, $376,000, from his former supporters.
www.nationaljournal.com/
Why Is Rick Perry Broke? His 2012 Donors Prefer Ted Cruz.
According to an analysis published by the National Journal on Friday, Cruz has raised more than $895,000 this year from people who supported Perry's 2012 presidential campaign. Perry has raised less than half that amount, $376,000, from his former supporters.
www.nationaljournal.com/
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 15, 2015 08:38 AM (kdS6q)
7
1st?
Posted by: Whitney Houstons crack pipe at August 15, 2015 08:39 AM (YguCZ)
8
It's important to be reminded of what we're up against, TheQuietMan.
Reading a bunch of MSM articles about Hillary's stupid plan, they are peddling hers as the low-budget, modest proposal! It really is awful. The other are even worse.
Reading a bunch of MSM articles about Hillary's stupid plan, they are peddling hers as the low-budget, modest proposal! It really is awful. The other are even worse.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 08:39 AM (RWGcK)
9
4: Would have rather seen a colostomy bag. Damn, I got in a lot of arguments about that commie lovin fucker and his ugly ole lady.
Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at August 15, 2015 08:40 AM (ucDmr)
10
Want an easy way to reduce college cost. Slash the bloated salaries of the professors, eliminate all of the useless departments and tons of administrators that do nothing. Cost savings goes back to the students who aren't learning anything any way
Posted by: TheQuietMan at August 15, 2015 08:40 AM (DiZBp)
11
I think my spirit was broken yesterday when Ace seemingly said he'd be willing to vote for Bush, post 492 of the Coulter vs Cooke thread.
Posted by: Agent J at August 15, 2015 08:42 AM (ueOgE)
12
#11
Yup!
Yup!
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 15, 2015 08:42 AM (R8hU8)
13
Vat is dis voman still doing here?!!???!!!
Posted by: Major Hochstetter at August 15, 2015 08:43 AM (JO9+V)
14
In before In-State-Tutition-for-Dreamers!!
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:44 AM (rwI+c)
15
The Republican nominee needs to say s/he'll slash the Federal regulations that drive costs up:
http://www.higheredcompliance.org/matrix/
http://www.higheredcompliance.org/matrix/
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 08:44 AM (RWGcK)
16
I never told you about what happened that summer you went away to community college . . .
Posted by: Mike Honcho at August 15, 2015 08:45 AM (NqQAS)
17
It's almost cheating though to do this with IT degrees. Computer Science is more of a craft than anything else in the Liberal Arts.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:45 AM (rwI+c)
18
>>14 In before In-State-Tutition-for-Dreamers!!
Which STILL is popular in Texas, apparently, since it still has not been repealed.
Or Governor Abbott is a Lefty. /s
Which STILL is popular in Texas, apparently, since it still has not been repealed.
Or Governor Abbott is a Lefty. /s
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 08:45 AM (RWGcK)
19
I don't know if it would work or not, but one guy did say to make the college loans like any other loan. You could declare bankruptcy and the bank would be on the hook for them. This would make it more difficult to get a loan, making less "students" pissing away 80,000 for a degree they can't use. Maybe the student would need to show their grades to the bank to get the loan for another year. You got crappy grades, sorry, the world needs ditch diggers too.
Posted by: Bruce at August 15, 2015 08:46 AM (8ikIW)
20
Of course, so is Medicine. It's barbery after all.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:46 AM (rwI+c)
21
g'mornin', 'rons
Posted by: AltonJackson at August 15, 2015 08:47 AM (KCxzN)
22
14 In before In-State-Tutition-for-Dreamers!!
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:44 AM (rwI+c)
I'll see your bet and raise you with...
FREE tuition at all public and private colleges for Dreamers, paid for by a 10% surtax on tuitions paid by all you native-born suckers.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:44 AM (rwI+c)
I'll see your bet and raise you with...
FREE tuition at all public and private colleges for Dreamers, paid for by a 10% surtax on tuitions paid by all you native-born suckers.
Posted by: Jeb! at August 15, 2015 08:48 AM (ueOgE)
23
I went to HS and played football with a guy who was literally dumb as a post. I was rather surprised to find out that he is now a cardiothorasic surgeon. Smart enough, rich family and good hands I guess.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:48 AM (rwI+c)
24
" I never told you about what happened that summer you went away to community college . "
Morning all.
Gots no problem with ju-co. Good way to build credits on the cheap.
Morning all.
Gots no problem with ju-co. Good way to build credits on the cheap.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 08:50 AM (PF0mN)
25
@19 Maybe the student would need to show their grades to the bank to get the loan for another year. You got crappy grades, sorry, the world needs ditch diggers too.
Man, and you thought grade inflation was bad already. The letters from the Deans banning grades below C would go out instantly.
Man, and you thought grade inflation was bad already. The letters from the Deans banning grades below C would go out instantly.
Posted by: Jeb! at August 15, 2015 08:51 AM (ueOgE)
26
Okay put Rick Perry in charge of the Dept of Education and order him to dismantle it.
Posted by: Anna Puma at August 15, 2015 08:51 AM (fOZgV)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at August 15, 2015 08:53 AM (Cq0oW)
Posted by: Fritz at August 15, 2015 08:53 AM (UzPAd)
29
"Maybe the student would need to show their grades to the bank to get the loan for another year. "
Thinking that exact thing. Manage college loans like scholarships. To be or not to be renewed on a yearly basis per review.
Thinking that exact thing. Manage college loans like scholarships. To be or not to be renewed on a yearly basis per review.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 08:54 AM (PF0mN)
30
Man, and you thought grade inflation was bad already. The letters from the Deans banning grades below C would go out instantly.
Posted by: Jeb!
Crap, I didn't think of that. The schools wouldn't cheat like that, would they?
Man, and you thought grade inflation was bad already. The letters from the Deans banning grades below C would go out instantly.
Posted by: Jeb!
Crap, I didn't think of that. The schools wouldn't cheat like that, would they?
Posted by: Bruce at August 15, 2015 08:54 AM (8ikIW)
31
Technical college I'm taking classes at has had such a problem with people signing up for classes, asking for as much loan money as they could get, and then only going to class for three weeks until the money gets dropped into their bank accounts that the Feds have gotten onto them and they've become ridiculously strict regarding attendance.
Posted by: Jus Sayin at August 15, 2015 08:55 AM (LzzjV)
32
"Manage college loans like scholarships. To be or not to be renewed on a yearly basis per review."
Or interest rates determined by grades.
Or interest rates determined by grades.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at August 15, 2015 08:56 AM (u5gzz)
33
I remember very clearly when Obama took over the student loan market. I turned to my wife and said it won't be long before we'll be getting Dem calls to forgive all student debt by having the taxpayers pick up the tab. They want the votes. It sucks always being right.
Can we please, please, PLEASE give up on Rick Perry now?
Can we please, please, PLEASE give up on Rick Perry now?
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 08:56 AM (LAe3v)
34
When everybody has a kollige duh-gree, they won't mean anything.
And when kollige doesn't cost anything, it won't be worth anything. And you won't believe how expensive it is.
And when kollige doesn't cost anything, it won't be worth anything. And you won't believe how expensive it is.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at August 15, 2015 08:57 AM (oVJmc)
35
the Feds have gotten onto them and they've become ridiculously strict regarding attendance
The Feds are now taking attendance?
The Feds are now taking attendance?
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 08:58 AM (LAe3v)
36
If you think college is expensive now, just wait 'till it's free.
Posted by: PJ O'roarke Sideways at August 15, 2015 08:58 AM (u5gzz)
37
Or interest rates determined by grades.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed
Only if there is a uniform, nationally-standardized test for determining the grades, and no disparate impact provisions.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed
Only if there is a uniform, nationally-standardized test for determining the grades, and no disparate impact provisions.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 08:59 AM (LAe3v)
38
Hillary is the kindest, sweetest, most loving individual I have ever met and she has never, ever done anything wrong and is always looking to help people and do good things.
Like it says in the good book, "Ye shall go forth and elect those who are your betters, and they will fill the earth with their kindness and use your wealth to make the least of you happy as the poor are always with us and have the right to vote themselves goodies and be joyous."
I think it was Das Kapital, chapters 1-3, verses 8:00 to 8:19.
Or something like that....
Hillary is the kindest, sweetest, most loving individual I have ever met and she has never, ever done anything wrong and is always looking to help people and do good things.
Like it says in the good book, "Ye shall go forth and elect those who are your betters, and they will fill the earth with their kindness and use your wealth to make the least of you happy as the poor are always with us and have the right to vote themselves goodies and be joyous."
I think it was Das Kapital, chapters 1-3, verses 8:00 to 8:19.
Or something like that....
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2015 09:02 AM (JG47A)
39
Free Tuition in NYC at one time
Merit-based free tuition survived through much of the last century until
1970, when the University dropped all tuition charges and accepted any
student with a high school diploma. The move ushered in a brief period
of free tuition for all undergraduate students that would not survive
the economic realities. In fall 1976, amid the turmoil of a dire city
fiscal crisis
Merit-based free tuition survived through much of the last century until
1970, when the University dropped all tuition charges and accepted any
student with a high school diploma. The move ushered in a brief period
of free tuition for all undergraduate students that would not survive
the economic realities. In fall 1976, amid the turmoil of a dire city
fiscal crisis
Posted by: Colin at August 15, 2015 09:02 AM (vIeIs)
40
Colleges will keep jacking up rates as long as 3rd party loans (including govt loans) and grants are available. It gives colleges an incentive to raise rates since they are not on the hook.
I don't know what the answer is.
My kid has a half-tuition scholarship to the school she picked and it is still a painful payment.
I don't know what the answer is.
My kid has a half-tuition scholarship to the school she picked and it is still a painful payment.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:03 AM (cbfNE)
41
10 Want an easy way to reduce college cost. Slash the bloated salaries of the professors, eliminate all of the useless departments and tons of administrators that do nothing.
----
I'm so old I remember when salary-envy was a Democrat trait.
Honestly, I am curious how you would enforce this pay cut and how you would determine what the right salary is.
At the state level, for state universities, the voters of that state can have input. If Wisconsin wants to eliminate tenure and/or cut salaries, they can feel free to do so and watch what happens to their universities.
----
I'm so old I remember when salary-envy was a Democrat trait.
Honestly, I am curious how you would enforce this pay cut and how you would determine what the right salary is.
At the state level, for state universities, the voters of that state can have input. If Wisconsin wants to eliminate tenure and/or cut salaries, they can feel free to do so and watch what happens to their universities.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:04 AM (RWGcK)
42
In all Honesty I would vote for any and or all of the Repub candidates, before HRC. yes Jeb is in that list. I said vote, not donate, Perry may have a great plan, strategy, but he is not a great debator, or speaker. If he was a Democrat this could be covered up, but wrong party.
Posted by: Picric at August 15, 2015 09:04 AM (QnQ+g)
43
I like the idea of making the college cosign student loans. That way the college has an incentive to encourage the kid into a useful subject, lest they end up on the hook for precious little snowflake barista's $200,000 Wymyn's Stydys DyGryy.
Posted by: mugiwara at August 15, 2015 09:06 AM (rJnvs)
44
If Wisconsin wants to eliminate tenure and/or cut salaries, they can
feel free to do so and watch what happens to their universities.
Didn't Walker already to that?
feel free to do so and watch what happens to their universities.
Didn't Walker already to that?
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:07 AM (LAe3v)
45
I wonder if you could do that though, could a Republican run on the Democrat Ticket?
Posted by: Picric at August 15, 2015 09:07 AM (QnQ+g)
46
Here's how The Bern would fund his free college plan:
"The federal funding for Sanders's proposal would come from a tax on financial transactions. Stock trades, bonds, and derivative trading would be taxed at rates of 0.5 percent, 0.1 percent, and 0.005 percent, respectively. Supporters of the financial transaction tax, which they call the "Robin Hood tax," say it is not only a progressive way to raise revenue but would also discourage dangerous levels of Wall Street speculation."
http://alj.am/1EVvCry
"The federal funding for Sanders's proposal would come from a tax on financial transactions. Stock trades, bonds, and derivative trading would be taxed at rates of 0.5 percent, 0.1 percent, and 0.005 percent, respectively. Supporters of the financial transaction tax, which they call the "Robin Hood tax," say it is not only a progressive way to raise revenue but would also discourage dangerous levels of Wall Street speculation."
http://alj.am/1EVvCry
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:07 AM (RWGcK)
47
Donald Trump. There. Now let's hear no more about him for the rest of the day.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:08 AM (LAe3v)
48
That could solve the Depth problem theyhave
Posted by: Picric at August 15, 2015 09:08 AM (QnQ+g)
49
44 If Wisconsin wants to eliminate tenure and/or cut salaries, they can
feel free to do so and watch what happens to their universities.
Didn't Walker already to that?
--
They've made some change to IDK the university charters or something that leaves the possibility open, but I don't think it's automatic.
And he's just cut their budgets more. See sidebar.
feel free to do so and watch what happens to their universities.
Didn't Walker already to that?
--
They've made some change to IDK the university charters or something that leaves the possibility open, but I don't think it's automatic.
And he's just cut their budgets more. See sidebar.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:09 AM (RWGcK)
50
For anyone here who is a veteran or knows a veteran, the VA is taking applications starting August 17th for a new educational benefit called the Accelerated Learning Program. It's open to ANY vet, old or new, and it's offered at no cost and without using any of your existing GI Bill benefits.
It's purpose is to help veterans gain skills and certifications to qualify for employment in the IT field.
You can go here for more info:
http://www DOT benefits DOT va.gov/tap/alp.asp
It's purpose is to help veterans gain skills and certifications to qualify for employment in the IT field.
You can go here for more info:
http://www DOT benefits DOT va.gov/tap/alp.asp
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at August 15, 2015 09:09 AM (NqQAS)
51
I need to go back to school and get enough student loans to pay off all my credit card debt.
Boy I must be a criminal mastermind or somethin.
No way it stays at $350B once everyone figures out the best strategy is to max everything out.
I need to go back to school and get enough student loans to pay off all my credit card debt.
Boy I must be a criminal mastermind or somethin.
No way it stays at $350B once everyone figures out the best strategy is to max everything out.
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:10 AM (LAliD)
52
>>43 I like the idea of making the college cosign student loans.
So when I go to the Corvette dealer, they should be on the hook for my loan?
No, they can repossess the car I've bought.
How do you repossess an education?
So when I go to the Corvette dealer, they should be on the hook for my loan?
No, they can repossess the car I've bought.
How do you repossess an education?
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:10 AM (RWGcK)
53
Let's give eveyone a house, too.
Posted by: BignJames at August 15, 2015 09:11 AM (e3VXN)
54
How do you repossess an education?
And that presupposes they actually got an education. I'd call that a highly questionable proposition in many cases.
And that presupposes they actually got an education. I'd call that a highly questionable proposition in many cases.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:11 AM (LAe3v)
55
And he's just cut their budgets more. See sidebar.
Ah, thanks. I loathe every one of these deals, and I'm very disappointed in Walker for doing this.
Ah, thanks. I loathe every one of these deals, and I'm very disappointed in Walker for doing this.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:13 AM (LAe3v)
Posted by: Colin at August 15, 2015 09:13 AM (vIeIs)
Posted by: Zombie Ronald Raven at August 15, 2015 09:13 AM (0FSuD)
58
"I need to go back to school and get enough student loans to pay off all my credit card debt."
Got a friend who's brother has lived his adult life off of student loans. He's 33, still going to school, and, never had a job.
Got a friend who's brother has lived his adult life off of student loans. He's 33, still going to school, and, never had a job.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:13 AM (PF0mN)
59
But you can't pay perfessors who teach exactly 0.0 courses per semester $200K/year if you offer 4-year degrees for $10K.
As for repossessing an "education", that presupposes there was something other than indoctrination given.
As for repossessing an "education", that presupposes there was something other than indoctrination given.
Posted by: steveegg at August 15, 2015 09:15 AM (cL79m)
60
I like the idea of making the college cosign student loans.
So when I go to the Corvette dealer, they should be on the hook for my loan?
No, they can repossess the car I've bought.
How do you repossess an education?
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:10 AM (RWGcK)
If the kid can never pay the loan back and declares bankruptcy, the college that accepted the money is on the hook to pay it back. Kind of disincentivizes all those useless degree programs. Would probably hold down tuition rate increases as well.
So when I go to the Corvette dealer, they should be on the hook for my loan?
No, they can repossess the car I've bought.
How do you repossess an education?
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:10 AM (RWGcK)
If the kid can never pay the loan back and declares bankruptcy, the college that accepted the money is on the hook to pay it back. Kind of disincentivizes all those useless degree programs. Would probably hold down tuition rate increases as well.
Posted by: mugiwara at August 15, 2015 09:16 AM (rJnvs)
61
Got a friend who's brother has lived his adult life off of student loans. He's 33, still going to school, and, never had a job.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:13 AM (PF0mN)
Is he Todd Rungdren's backup singer?
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:13 AM (PF0mN)
Is he Todd Rungdren's backup singer?
Posted by: steveegg at August 15, 2015 09:16 AM (cL79m)
62
The expansion of expenses at colleges is a direct results of the "free money" from the Feds via loans.
The colleges don't give a shit. Harvard, Yale and Duke were shamed into making tuition a variable related to your family income.
All three make more off their investments that ALL the tuition in all their programs combined.
In other words, they could let students go to college FREE and not miss the income.
The colleges don't give a shit. Harvard, Yale and Duke were shamed into making tuition a variable related to your family income.
All three make more off their investments that ALL the tuition in all their programs combined.
In other words, they could let students go to college FREE and not miss the income.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 15, 2015 09:17 AM (0FSuD)
63
58 Yes the essential principle to recognize here is a huge expansion in govt.
It ALWAYS ends the same.
Think about disparate impact when it comes to grades and graduation rates.
Teachers will go from primarily imparting knowledge to political officers
58 Yes the essential principle to recognize here is a huge expansion in govt.
It ALWAYS ends the same.
Think about disparate impact when it comes to grades and graduation rates.
Teachers will go from primarily imparting knowledge to political officers
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:17 AM (LAliD)
64
17 It's almost cheating though to do this with IT degrees. Computer Science is more of a craft than anything else in the Liberal Arts.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:45 AM (rwI+c)
In my experience, a CS degree is closer to being a computer-specialized math degree with a dab of engineering and programming mixed in. An IT degree primarily comprises the practical aspects of dealing with computers which is closer to a craft.
I may have to investigate that Georgia Tech CS masters program, although I'm not wild about the notion of having to re-take the GRE.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 08:45 AM (rwI+c)
In my experience, a CS degree is closer to being a computer-specialized math degree with a dab of engineering and programming mixed in. An IT degree primarily comprises the practical aspects of dealing with computers which is closer to a craft.
I may have to investigate that Georgia Tech CS masters program, although I'm not wild about the notion of having to re-take the GRE.
Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik at August 15, 2015 09:18 AM (EHU9F)
65
What if you could pay off all student debt?
Would it be a bad thing, in itself, to pay off not only student debt, but mortgage debt and consumer debt if possible, without obligating future generations, after the national debt is eliminated?
What kind of advantage would a country have if it and it's citizens had zero debt?
On the surface, it sounds like it wouldn't be too bad...
Would it be a bad thing, in itself, to pay off not only student debt, but mortgage debt and consumer debt if possible, without obligating future generations, after the national debt is eliminated?
What kind of advantage would a country have if it and it's citizens had zero debt?
On the surface, it sounds like it wouldn't be too bad...
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 09:19 AM (P/xrJ)
66
And that presupposes they actually got an education. I'd call that a highly questionable proposition in many cases.
--
I guess I'm showing my age, because I see these ideas about MORE government regulation attached to student loans, such as the tying it to grades thing, and I think back to my own college days.
MY PARENTS SAW MY GRADES.
If I screwed up and got bad grades, I'd lose my scholarship and my parents would stop contributing to my tuition etc.
I'd have to drop out of the private college I attended and probably attend the state university.
I am sick of having to be on the hook for everyone else's kids' bad decisions. And, sadly, that seems to be an idea that is embraced on the Right as well as on the Left. Somehow it's my problem -- on the Federal level, not just within my own state -- that other people's kids have made lousy choices.
Fundamental transformation.
Mission accomplished.
--
I guess I'm showing my age, because I see these ideas about MORE government regulation attached to student loans, such as the tying it to grades thing, and I think back to my own college days.
MY PARENTS SAW MY GRADES.
If I screwed up and got bad grades, I'd lose my scholarship and my parents would stop contributing to my tuition etc.
I'd have to drop out of the private college I attended and probably attend the state university.
I am sick of having to be on the hook for everyone else's kids' bad decisions. And, sadly, that seems to be an idea that is embraced on the Right as well as on the Left. Somehow it's my problem -- on the Federal level, not just within my own state -- that other people's kids have made lousy choices.
Fundamental transformation.
Mission accomplished.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:19 AM (RWGcK)
67
from the democrat point of view there is great ROI from academia
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at August 15, 2015 09:20 AM (Cq0oW)
68
At the state level, for state universities, the voters of that state can have input. If Wisconsin wants to eliminate tenure and/or cut salaries, they can feel free to do so and watch what happens to their universities.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:04 AM (RWGcK)
Considering tenure is now up to the UW system (just like it is for every other university system rather than a matter of state law), and the sidebar item is not a fresh cut, but one that was built into the budget (this after the first 2-year tuition freeze didn't exactly cut into the $1,000,000,000 slush fund the UW system had built up over the years, or 4 times the less-than-3% 2-year cut in UW system inflow),....
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:04 AM (RWGcK)
Considering tenure is now up to the UW system (just like it is for every other university system rather than a matter of state law), and the sidebar item is not a fresh cut, but one that was built into the budget (this after the first 2-year tuition freeze didn't exactly cut into the $1,000,000,000 slush fund the UW system had built up over the years, or 4 times the less-than-3% 2-year cut in UW system inflow),....
Posted by: steveegg at August 15, 2015 09:21 AM (cL79m)
69
"Is he Todd Rungdren's backup singer?"
Give me a few more minutes. Scouring the internet to figure out what that means.
Give me a few more minutes. Scouring the internet to figure out what that means.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:23 AM (PF0mN)
70
If we don't send the kiddies to kollige, they're not fully indoctrinated.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at August 15, 2015 09:23 AM (oVJmc)
71
Eliminate the Xxxxx Studies BS, and start cranking out engineers, etc.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at August 15, 2015 09:24 AM (oVJmc)
72
If we didn't have so much H1-B immigration, we could make it economically feasible to encourage companies to sponsor kids thru college in exchange for employment for a number of years.
This would work in an economy with high employment and worker scarcity.
This is basically what the service academies do.
This would work in an economy with high employment and worker scarcity.
This is basically what the service academies do.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:24 AM (cbfNE)
73
If the kid can never pay the loan back and declares bankruptcy, the college that accepted the money is on the hook to pay it back. Kind of disincentivizes all those useless degree programs. Would probably hold down tuition rate increases as well.
Posted by: mugiwara at August 15, 2015 09:16 AM (rJnvs)
---
That's like saying an MD who performs surgery on a person to fix their problem (bad knee, obesity, smoking related cancer) should be on the hook for the bill when that patient disobeys orders and blows out their knee again or gets fat again or keeps smoking.
Attending college is a voluntary exercise. The professor cannot force the students to study.
Each year I would tell my students (sophomores, mostly pre-med and pre-vet students) that there was no curve and that the four exams represented their grades and that they needed to study.
Each year (many) students blew off the first two exams, then ran into my office in a panic.
I'm sorry, but some of you parents have done a lousy job teaching your kids personal responsibility.
Posted by: mugiwara at August 15, 2015 09:16 AM (rJnvs)
---
That's like saying an MD who performs surgery on a person to fix their problem (bad knee, obesity, smoking related cancer) should be on the hook for the bill when that patient disobeys orders and blows out their knee again or gets fat again or keeps smoking.
Attending college is a voluntary exercise. The professor cannot force the students to study.
Each year I would tell my students (sophomores, mostly pre-med and pre-vet students) that there was no curve and that the four exams represented their grades and that they needed to study.
Each year (many) students blew off the first two exams, then ran into my office in a panic.
I'm sorry, but some of you parents have done a lousy job teaching your kids personal responsibility.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:24 AM (RWGcK)
74
Give me a few more minutes. Scouring the internet to figure out what that means.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:23 AM (PF0mN)
Rundgren wrote the ObamiNation National Anthem - https://youtu.be/u1YB8oOLsjw
"I don't want to work. I just want to bang the (your) drum all day."
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:23 AM (PF0mN)
Rundgren wrote the ObamiNation National Anthem - https://youtu.be/u1YB8oOLsjw
"I don't want to work. I just want to bang the (your) drum all day."
Posted by: steveegg at August 15, 2015 09:25 AM (cL79m)
75
Hey, not like it's serious money, it's only $35,000,000,000 per annum.
And besides, how else are they supposed to turn their lives around?
And besides, how else are they supposed to turn their lives around?
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:25 AM (ftVQq)
76
Each year (many) students blew off the first two exams, then ran into my office in a panic.
I'm sorry, but some of you parents have done a lousy job teaching your kids personal responsibility.
Posted by: Y-not
I remember those kids, that you had barely seen in classes, show up the week before finals and ask the prof "What can I do for extra credit?"
I'm sorry, but some of you parents have done a lousy job teaching your kids personal responsibility.
Posted by: Y-not
I remember those kids, that you had barely seen in classes, show up the week before finals and ask the prof "What can I do for extra credit?"
Posted by: Bruce at August 15, 2015 09:26 AM (8ikIW)
77
72 If we didn't have so much H1-B immigration, we could make it economically feasible to encourage companies to sponsor kids thru college in exchange for employment for a number of years.
---
It's an interesting idea, but my observation of MBA programs (after doing the science-thing I moved over into the B-school) is that companies won't do this. It was once pretty commonplace for companies to foot the bill for their employees to go back to get MBAs (or executive MBAs), but that's become much rarer.
---
It's an interesting idea, but my observation of MBA programs (after doing the science-thing I moved over into the B-school) is that companies won't do this. It was once pretty commonplace for companies to foot the bill for their employees to go back to get MBAs (or executive MBAs), but that's become much rarer.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:27 AM (RWGcK)
78
MY PARENTS SAW MY GRADES.
If I screwed up and got bad grades, I'd lose my scholarship and my parents would stop contributing to my tuition etc.
I'd have to drop out of the private college I attended and probably attend the state university.
--
Yep. FERPA means parents can't see the kid's grades anymore without jumping through hoops.
Although these days even state unis are very expensive.
If I screwed up and got bad grades, I'd lose my scholarship and my parents would stop contributing to my tuition etc.
I'd have to drop out of the private college I attended and probably attend the state university.
--
Yep. FERPA means parents can't see the kid's grades anymore without jumping through hoops.
Although these days even state unis are very expensive.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:27 AM (cbfNE)
79
Fundamental transformation.
Mission accomplished.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:19 AM
My basic premise is: get the government entirely out of college "financing." No connection with student "loans," no subsidies to appropriately liberal schools, no "grants" so teh professors can study fruit-fly migration in Mesopotamia, no nothin'.
Well, let the VA fund college for vets -- after they get their pathetic act together -- but nothing else. Nada. Zip. Zero.
BTW, my "college compact" was a Honda 600. Pretty compact. No government money was wasted on my edumification.
Mission accomplished.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:19 AM
My basic premise is: get the government entirely out of college "financing." No connection with student "loans," no subsidies to appropriately liberal schools, no "grants" so teh professors can study fruit-fly migration in Mesopotamia, no nothin'.
Well, let the VA fund college for vets -- after they get their pathetic act together -- but nothing else. Nada. Zip. Zero.
BTW, my "college compact" was a Honda 600. Pretty compact. No government money was wasted on my edumification.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:27 AM (0atQl)
80
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 09:19 AM (P/xrJ)
Maybe as long as the colleges had to pay off the student debt, NOT the taxpayers!
Maybe as long as the colleges had to pay off the student debt, NOT the taxpayers!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:28 AM (ftVQq)
81
10 Want an easy way to reduce college cost. Slash the bloated salaries of the professors, eliminate all of the useless departments and tons of administrators that do nothing. Cost savings goes back to the students who aren't learning anything any way
--------------
All that and just one more thing: Make the tenured professors teach for 10 hours a week. That alone will double the amount of time that they spend teaching today.
--------------
All that and just one more thing: Make the tenured professors teach for 10 hours a week. That alone will double the amount of time that they spend teaching today.
Posted by: Sasquatch, the trans-Wookie Original at August 15, 2015 09:28 AM (qyMsj)
82
I remember those kids, that you had barely seen in classes, show up the week before finals and ask the prof "What can I do for extra credit?"
--
Bless their hearts.
Don't get me wrong, I was Queen of the C Student. My specialty was taking that F or D student and tutoring them until they got a C. But it took about 20 hrs of week of office time to do that and the class was 400 kids. Needless to say, that cut into my research time.
--
Bless their hearts.
Don't get me wrong, I was Queen of the C Student. My specialty was taking that F or D student and tutoring them until they got a C. But it took about 20 hrs of week of office time to do that and the class was 400 kids. Needless to say, that cut into my research time.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:28 AM (RWGcK)
83
Maybe as long as the colleges had to pay off the student debt, NOT the taxpayers!
Posted by: Hrothgar
It would be like a tax on the rich, eventually the middle class taxpayers end up paying it.
Posted by: Hrothgar
It would be like a tax on the rich, eventually the middle class taxpayers end up paying it.
Posted by: Bruce at August 15, 2015 09:29 AM (8ikIW)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:29 AM (PF0mN)
85
I guess I'm showing my age, because I see these ideas about MORE
government regulation attached to student loans, such as the tying it to
grades thing, and I think back to my own college days.
Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of a government role in college education or tuition funding, with some possible exceptions, e.g. the GI bill. But if I'm going to be on the hook for the money, I want some sort of accountability.
When a bank loans you money, they don't just say "it's a right, here's some money".
@68 All of what you say may be true, but it's incredibly stupid politics to cut money from education and then hand it over to a very rich person to build a football stadium (or whatever, I can't open the article). It plays right into the Dems hands. He should simply have returned the money to the taxpayers. Again, I can't read the article, so take that comment for what it's worth.
government regulation attached to student loans, such as the tying it to
grades thing, and I think back to my own college days.
Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of a government role in college education or tuition funding, with some possible exceptions, e.g. the GI bill. But if I'm going to be on the hook for the money, I want some sort of accountability.
When a bank loans you money, they don't just say "it's a right, here's some money".
@68 All of what you say may be true, but it's incredibly stupid politics to cut money from education and then hand it over to a very rich person to build a football stadium (or whatever, I can't open the article). It plays right into the Dems hands. He should simply have returned the money to the taxpayers. Again, I can't read the article, so take that comment for what it's worth.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:29 AM (LAe3v)
86
72 But Cruz luuvves H1B visas so much that he wrote the bill to increase them himself!!!
And I'm told Trump is a clown candidate
72 But Cruz luuvves H1B visas so much that he wrote the bill to increase them himself!!!
And I'm told Trump is a clown candidate
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:30 AM (LAliD)
87
Yep. FERPA means parents can't see the kid's grades anymore without jumping through hoops.
--
I checked FERPA. It was in place when I was in college.
What family is governed by a federal law? The college mailed me the grades, which I handed over to my parents.
--
I checked FERPA. It was in place when I was in college.
What family is governed by a federal law? The college mailed me the grades, which I handed over to my parents.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:30 AM (RWGcK)
88
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:28 AM (RWGcK)
But seriously, and I mean this not sarcastically, you may have helped at least some of those D and F students "turn their lives" around. That's teaching!
But seriously, and I mean this not sarcastically, you may have helped at least some of those D and F students "turn their lives" around. That's teaching!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:31 AM (ftVQq)
89
All the "free college" in the world isn't going to help the black community, with the low highschool graduation rates, most never will or want to go. Many cities have a black graduation rate of well under 50%.
Posted by: Colin at August 15, 2015 09:31 AM (vIeIs)
90
My basic premise is: get the government entirely out of college "financing." No connection with student "loans," no subsidies to appropriately liberal schools, no "grants" so teh professors can study fruit-fly migration in Mesopotamia, no nothin'.
--
I agree.
--
I agree.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:31 AM (cbfNE)
91
so teh professors can study fruit-fly migration in Mesopotamia, no nothin'.
But maybe those darn fruit flies migrating are causing GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!
Didn't think of that did you?
But maybe those darn fruit flies migrating are causing GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!
Didn't think of that did you?
Posted by: Bruce at August 15, 2015 09:33 AM (8ikIW)
92
Yep. FERPA means parents can't see the kid's grades anymore without jumping through hoops.
Although these days even state unis are very expensive.
Posted by: @votermom
There is a simple solution that I've used with my kids. I can't force the university to show me their grades (excellent, thanks for asking), but I sure can force my kids to.
Would you like to go back to school next semester? Let's see the grades.
Although these days even state unis are very expensive.
Posted by: @votermom
There is a simple solution that I've used with my kids. I can't force the university to show me their grades (excellent, thanks for asking), but I sure can force my kids to.
Would you like to go back to school next semester? Let's see the grades.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:33 AM (LAe3v)
93
Along with getting out of the student loan business, government should replace half the permanent bureaucracy with temp teen workers. Help them earn money to go to college, while cutting costs on overpaid govt drones.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:34 AM (cbfNE)
94
But Cruz luuvves H1B visas so much that he wrote the bill to increase them himself!!! And I'm told Trump is a clown candidate
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:30 AM
Dude, they're ALL clown candidates. It's just that some -- Cruz and Fiorina for example -- are better at pulling the wool over peoples' eyes. They could sell deepfreezes to teh Esquimaux.
Trump is at least an entertaining clown. And I suspect he'd do a better job as POTUS than damn near everyone thinks he would. His press conferences would be epic, too.
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:30 AM
Dude, they're ALL clown candidates. It's just that some -- Cruz and Fiorina for example -- are better at pulling the wool over peoples' eyes. They could sell deepfreezes to teh Esquimaux.
Trump is at least an entertaining clown. And I suspect he'd do a better job as POTUS than damn near everyone thinks he would. His press conferences would be epic, too.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:34 AM (0atQl)
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:34 AM (LAe3v)
96
But seriously, and I mean this not sarcastically, you may have helped at least some of those D and F students "turn their lives" around. That's teaching!
---
Yes, I loved those kids. It was frustrating to see the pattern every year, but I had open office hours and tried to help every one who came.
The other fun students were the student-athletes, especially the girls volleyball team (I'm 5' 2", these young ladies TOWERED over me), who were highly disciplined students. Great admiration for their work ethic.
---
Yes, I loved those kids. It was frustrating to see the pattern every year, but I had open office hours and tried to help every one who came.
The other fun students were the student-athletes, especially the girls volleyball team (I'm 5' 2", these young ladies TOWERED over me), who were highly disciplined students. Great admiration for their work ethic.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:35 AM (RWGcK)
97
someone mentioned in the other thread the cost of treating gunshot victims in these donk hellholes. In the 80s-90s in LA when we had lots of gang violence, the special rehab hospitals were filled with paraplegic gangbangers.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at August 15, 2015 09:35 AM (iQIUe)
98
But maybe those darn fruit flies migrating are causing GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!
Didn't think of that did you?
Posted by: Bruce
Perhaps they're being studied so as to minimize damage to agricultural crops.
Didn't think of that did you?
Posted by: Bruce
Perhaps they're being studied so as to minimize damage to agricultural crops.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:36 AM (LAe3v)
99
And I'm told Trump is a clown candidate
He is. But in fairness, it's a clown electorate as well so he got more than a fighting chance.
He is. But in fairness, it's a clown electorate as well so he got more than a fighting chance.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 09:36 AM (rwI+c)
100
But seriously, and I mean this not sarcastically, you may have helped at least some of those D and F students "turn their lives" around. That's teaching!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:31 AM
Yes, but I'm pretty sure Y-not helped the kiddos because she thought it was the right thing to do, not because Uncle Sugar was giving her a grant to do it, amirite?
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:31 AM
Yes, but I'm pretty sure Y-not helped the kiddos because she thought it was the right thing to do, not because Uncle Sugar was giving her a grant to do it, amirite?
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:36 AM (0atQl)
101
Democrats are continually blathering about "sustainability", and yet the only programs they comeup with are unsustainable.
Posted by: Caca-Nahissy Goates at August 15, 2015 09:36 AM (qd6sQ)
102
Along with getting out of the student loan business, government should replace half the permanent bureaucracy with temp teen workers.
--
You don't seem to know anything about how a university is run or anything about the ever increasing Federal bureaucracy that has made it harder than ever to hire part-time workers.
--
You don't seem to know anything about how a university is run or anything about the ever increasing Federal bureaucracy that has made it harder than ever to hire part-time workers.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:36 AM (RWGcK)
103
350 billion. So my cash will be worth 10% less, and the mooches will still hate me. Sounds like a good plan.
Posted by: AC at August 15, 2015 09:37 AM (TzeLs)
104
Yes, but I'm pretty sure Y-not helped the kiddos because she thought it was the right thing to do, not because Uncle Sugar was giving her a grant to do it, emirate?
--
Uncle Sugar did support my research through NIH and NSF grants. (So did Uncle American Heart Association.) And those grant projects produced results that wound up in the college textbook I used to teach the students.
I know there are a lot of bad professors out there, but there are a lot of good professors, too. It saddens me that the bad ones get most of the attention on the Right.
--
Uncle Sugar did support my research through NIH and NSF grants. (So did Uncle American Heart Association.) And those grant projects produced results that wound up in the college textbook I used to teach the students.
I know there are a lot of bad professors out there, but there are a lot of good professors, too. It saddens me that the bad ones get most of the attention on the Right.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:38 AM (RWGcK)
105
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:30 AM (LAliD)
I posed this to the Mail Sac as a question for Carly, but it is a good thought question for all candidates:
Do you approve of having H1B employees in jobs that could have been
filled by American citizens with a STEM background?
Do you believe that H1B visas are
critical to American technology companies even though they take jobs
that equally skilled American workers could perform?
Do you believe
that H1B workers are smarter, more skilled, and/or work harder and
more cheaply than American citizen workers in the same job?
I posed this to the Mail Sac as a question for Carly, but it is a good thought question for all candidates:
Do you approve of having H1B employees in jobs that could have been
filled by American citizens with a STEM background?
Do you believe that H1B visas are
critical to American technology companies even though they take jobs
that equally skilled American workers could perform?
Do you believe
that H1B workers are smarter, more skilled, and/or work harder and
more cheaply than American citizen workers in the same job?
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:39 AM (ftVQq)
106
"He is. But in fairness, it's a clown electorate as well so he got more than a fighting chance."
Fair assessment. Only one or two real, serious GOP candidates at best anyway. All else is carnival sideshow.
Fair assessment. Only one or two real, serious GOP candidates at best anyway. All else is carnival sideshow.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:42 AM (PF0mN)
107
94 I could not agree more.
He's just a more SUCCESSFUL clown.
105 That's PERFECT and I hope we get the answer with candor.
94 I could not agree more.
He's just a more SUCCESSFUL clown.
105 That's PERFECT and I hope we get the answer with candor.
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:42 AM (LAliD)
108
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:36 AM (0atQl)
Every time someone mentions the proposal/grant process, I will forever think of the "Goat-Man Project" and wonder what were some of the proposals that got turned DOWN!
Every time someone mentions the proposal/grant process, I will forever think of the "Goat-Man Project" and wonder what were some of the proposals that got turned DOWN!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:42 AM (ftVQq)
109
I think the globalization of trade is one of those things that needs to be addressed through the lens of 'Good Enough'. I think it's inarguable that Free Trade benefits everyone in general, but hurts some people in particular. I think it's a good argument to have whether some degree of protectionism, and looking out for your own, isn't better than the theoretical benefit of less friction and better allocation in the global system.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 09:42 AM (rwI+c)
110
You don't seem to know anything about how a university is run or anything about the ever increasing Federal bureaucracy that has made it harder than ever to hire part-time workers.
--
Never claimed to know anything about how a uni is run, just how much it costs the students to go.
You seem personally invested and rather defensive. I'm not attacking you, just floating ideas about what us now an unsustainable situation.
As to the Fed bureacracy, that's the poibt. We need so eone who will do mass lay offs.
The whole point is that the public has been snookered into believing everyon needs a college degree to get work. How about focusing in creating work, and let college go back to being for people who want to be tgere to learn.
PS obligatory: Calm your tits.
--
Never claimed to know anything about how a uni is run, just how much it costs the students to go.
You seem personally invested and rather defensive. I'm not attacking you, just floating ideas about what us now an unsustainable situation.
As to the Fed bureacracy, that's the poibt. We need so eone who will do mass lay offs.
The whole point is that the public has been snookered into believing everyon needs a college degree to get work. How about focusing in creating work, and let college go back to being for people who want to be tgere to learn.
PS obligatory: Calm your tits.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:43 AM (cbfNE)
111
Do you believe that H1B workers are smarter, more skilled, and/or work harder and
more cheaply than American citizen workers in the same job?
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:39 AM
I'll take "more cheaply" for $500, Alex.
Everyone knows American kids who are dumber than the proverbial bag of hammers. But that's at least partly because the smart ones are busy studying, not lounging around the malls.
more cheaply than American citizen workers in the same job?
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:39 AM
I'll take "more cheaply" for $500, Alex.
Everyone knows American kids who are dumber than the proverbial bag of hammers. But that's at least partly because the smart ones are busy studying, not lounging around the malls.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:43 AM (0atQl)
112
"and yet the only programs they comeup with are unsustainable."
Maybe that word don't mean what they think it means.
Maybe that word don't mean what they think it means.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:43 AM (PF0mN)
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at August 15, 2015 09:43 AM (yxw0r)
114
Typing on a tablet sucks.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:43 AM (cbfNE)
115
That's like saying an MD who performs surgery on a
person to fix their problem (bad knee, obesity, smoking related cancer)
should be on the hook for the bill when that patient disobeys orders and
blows out their knee again or gets fat again or keeps smoking.
Attending college is a voluntary exercise. The professor cannot force the students to study.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:24 AM (RWGcK)
I get your point, but I think we're talking about different things here. Yes, a professor can't force a student to study, but the bursar can damn well limit the number of Grievance Studies degrees. If the feds are gonna control the whole student loan business, might as well pressure the college administrators to lessen the output of debt laden dumb fucks. Sure, the Grievance Studies professors will squeal, but that's just more of a reason to do it.
person to fix their problem (bad knee, obesity, smoking related cancer)
should be on the hook for the bill when that patient disobeys orders and
blows out their knee again or gets fat again or keeps smoking.
Attending college is a voluntary exercise. The professor cannot force the students to study.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:24 AM (RWGcK)
I get your point, but I think we're talking about different things here. Yes, a professor can't force a student to study, but the bursar can damn well limit the number of Grievance Studies degrees. If the feds are gonna control the whole student loan business, might as well pressure the college administrators to lessen the output of debt laden dumb fucks. Sure, the Grievance Studies professors will squeal, but that's just more of a reason to do it.
Posted by: mugiwara at August 15, 2015 09:44 AM (rJnvs)
116
Cheaper textiles are great, unless you're the one unemployed by them.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 09:44 AM (rwI+c)
117
For all you young farts driving around in your Toyota's today is VJ day.
Japan surrendered 70 years ago TODAY.
Japan surrendered 70 years ago TODAY.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 15, 2015 09:44 AM (0FSuD)
118
Japan surrendered 70 years ago TODAY. Posted by: Nip Sip at August 15, 2015 09:44 AM
And just this year, America surrendered to Iran and Cuba.
Who'd'a thunk it?
And just this year, America surrendered to Iran and Cuba.
Who'd'a thunk it?
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:46 AM (0atQl)
119
Yes, a professor can't force a student to study, but the bursar can damn well limit the number of Grievance Studies degrees.
Yep. The point isn't the slack-assed students who don't graduate, though I say that as shouldn't. It the ones who graduate from the program and are unemployable.
Yep. The point isn't the slack-assed students who don't graduate, though I say that as shouldn't. It the ones who graduate from the program and are unemployable.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 09:46 AM (rwI+c)
120
About that Georgia Tech masters.
It got a lot of press for its price and approach based on MOOCs. Instapundit was all over it.
The program is sponsored in part by ATT.
My wife works at ATT and was, I thought, an ideal candidate for the program. Despite the fact that they publicized that they had accepted thousands of students in the program, my wife - who double majored in IT and Math and is a NOC manager with some 30,000 routers under her responsibility - did not get in.
I understand a lot of the enrollees are from outside the US.
Not sour grapes, but I think the program is some sort of scam.
It got a lot of press for its price and approach based on MOOCs. Instapundit was all over it.
The program is sponsored in part by ATT.
My wife works at ATT and was, I thought, an ideal candidate for the program. Despite the fact that they publicized that they had accepted thousands of students in the program, my wife - who double majored in IT and Math and is a NOC manager with some 30,000 routers under her responsibility - did not get in.
I understand a lot of the enrollees are from outside the US.
Not sour grapes, but I think the program is some sort of scam.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:46 AM (2Ocf1)
121
104 Perfectly measured and reasonable. Some people love to talk shit about teachers but I notice it's usually towtruck drivers and used-car slaesman types. Geez clean up your own field before you come after mine.
109 You can't have free trade and full employment, as we can see every day
104 Perfectly measured and reasonable. Some people love to talk shit about teachers but I notice it's usually towtruck drivers and used-car slaesman types. Geez clean up your own field before you come after mine.
109 You can't have free trade and full employment, as we can see every day
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:47 AM (LAliD)
122
Imagine your family had great wealth, but your ancestors always bought things then left them unused. Your great, great grandfather would buy vast tracks of land with oil, gold, copper, silver and other valuable minerals underneath. His forefathers bought control of offshore shelves full of oil. Other relatives collected prime properties - waterfronts, forests, grazing lands, along with other tangible treasures of art and jewels.
But after acquiring them, they would turn them over to a pack of lawyers, accountants, clerks and minions would make sure nothing was used to produce income to help the family.
When they passed away, it fell to you to pay the maintenance on all they accumulated. You and your children are responsible to pay the army of caretakers and all associated costs.
On top of this, your family is in deep debt and in trouble of having the interest on that debt overtake your income.
As the leader of your family, what is the best course of action to take?
Imagine your family had great wealth, but your ancestors always bought things then left them unused. Your great, great grandfather would buy vast tracks of land with oil, gold, copper, silver and other valuable minerals underneath. His forefathers bought control of offshore shelves full of oil. Other relatives collected prime properties - waterfronts, forests, grazing lands, along with other tangible treasures of art and jewels.
But after acquiring them, they would turn them over to a pack of lawyers, accountants, clerks and minions would make sure nothing was used to produce income to help the family.
When they passed away, it fell to you to pay the maintenance on all they accumulated. You and your children are responsible to pay the army of caretakers and all associated costs.
On top of this, your family is in deep debt and in trouble of having the interest on that debt overtake your income.
As the leader of your family, what is the best course of action to take?
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 09:48 AM (P/xrJ)
123
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:43 AM (0atQl)
I intended the question to be framed as equivalently skilled workers, but 60 INR/hour sounds pretty good to a CFO compared to $60+/hr.
That said, I pretty much agree that we have a sizable citizen dolt contingent, but I'd like to hear a politician say that (or more likely dance around the question).
I intended the question to be framed as equivalently skilled workers, but 60 INR/hour sounds pretty good to a CFO compared to $60+/hr.
That said, I pretty much agree that we have a sizable citizen dolt contingent, but I'd like to hear a politician say that (or more likely dance around the question).
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:48 AM (ftVQq)
124
The point isn't the slack-assed students who don't
graduate, though I say that as shouldn't. It the ones who graduate from
the program and are unemployable.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 09:46 AM
Take away government Kollej Loot and the majority of the Grievance Studies curricula would vanish like a fart in a whirlwind.
graduate, though I say that as shouldn't. It the ones who graduate from
the program and are unemployable.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 09:46 AM
Take away government Kollej Loot and the majority of the Grievance Studies curricula would vanish like a fart in a whirlwind.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:49 AM (0atQl)
125
Yep. FERPA means parents can't see the kid's grades anymore without jumping through hoops.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:27 AM (cbfNE)
**********
When my first kid went to college, they briefed them at orientation about FERPA. There was a form that students could sign that allowed the student to identify persons who were allowed access to the student's grades and financial information. The university stressed to the student that this was voluntary and that their parents could not force them to sign the form.
Ha. My son hesitated the slightest bit, still being awash in the anticipation of his freshman year of "freedom". He then realized he would be on his own for four years, and signed his "privacy" away without any further debate.
Yep. FERPA means parents can't see the kid's grades anymore without jumping through hoops.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:27 AM (cbfNE)
**********
When my first kid went to college, they briefed them at orientation about FERPA. There was a form that students could sign that allowed the student to identify persons who were allowed access to the student's grades and financial information. The university stressed to the student that this was voluntary and that their parents could not force them to sign the form.
Ha. My son hesitated the slightest bit, still being awash in the anticipation of his freshman year of "freedom". He then realized he would be on his own for four years, and signed his "privacy" away without any further debate.
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at August 15, 2015 09:49 AM (NqQAS)
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:50 AM (LAliD)
127
Take away government Kollej Loot and the majority of the Grievance Studies curricula would vanish like a fart in a whirlwind.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:49 AM (0atQl)
Amen.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:49 AM (0atQl)
Amen.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at August 15, 2015 09:51 AM (yxw0r)
128
124 Yeah but watch what happens when the black studies dept. goes under from that.
Ferguson on campus
124 Yeah but watch what happens when the black studies dept. goes under from that.
Ferguson on campus
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 09:51 AM (LAliD)
129
125 the college kid is going thru has the waiver, but the parent would have to show up in person to access anything coz tge collrge doesn't want to implement any kind of phone / email verification protocol. #eyeroll
So we are just going to have to know her log in info.
So we are just going to have to know her log in info.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:52 AM (cbfNE)
130
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at August 15, 2015 09:49 AM (NqQAS)
My paying my daughter's college tuition was purely voluntary on my part, and I made sure she knew that!
My paying my daughter's college tuition was purely voluntary on my part, and I made sure she knew that!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 09:52 AM (ftVQq)
131
"Japan surrendered 70 years ago TODAY."
We get wrapped up and forget. God Bless 'em. A lot of us wouldn't be here if we'd had to invade Japan.
We get wrapped up and forget. God Bless 'em. A lot of us wouldn't be here if we'd had to invade Japan.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 09:53 AM (PF0mN)
132
Watching the absymal universities here in Europe, you will constantly hear how superior their system is and "it's free." But of course its not free-- taxpayers are burned with that and due to budget restraints, there never is enough places for students. That costs money and it comes from the state. The facilities lack needed repairs. The tenured profs are highly polticised and terretorial. The big thing though is there is never enough money to go round to support research. Europe started turning to private universities to get around all that about 20 years ago and they are growing.
It all goes full circle.
Watching the absymal universities here in Europe, you will constantly hear how superior their system is and "it's free." But of course its not free-- taxpayers are burned with that and due to budget restraints, there never is enough places for students. That costs money and it comes from the state. The facilities lack needed repairs. The tenured profs are highly polticised and terretorial. The big thing though is there is never enough money to go round to support research. Europe started turning to private universities to get around all that about 20 years ago and they are growing.
It all goes full circle.
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at August 15, 2015 09:54 AM (p2+um)
133
H1b visas already require a showing that the is no US citizen for the job. You have to advertise the position and show no other candidates.
I am sure many companies game the system, but that is what the law is now.
I am sure many companies game the system, but that is what the law is now.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM (2Ocf1)
134
Giving colleges hundreds of billions of Federal dollars each year without performance metrics -- or for that matter any purpose beyond "free monies!" is conservative,
Some might even say severely conservative.
Giving colleges hundreds of billions of Federal dollars each year without performance metrics -- or for that matter any purpose beyond "free monies!" is conservative,
Some might even say severely conservative.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM (kdS6q)
135
I am sure many companies game the system, but that is what the law is now.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM
We have a metric fuckton of immigration laws in this country besides these. So what?
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM
We have a metric fuckton of immigration laws in this country besides these. So what?
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:56 AM (0atQl)
136
This cuck sent Perry money??? lulzzzzz
We must pelt these cucks w/ shame bombs until moral improves!
We must pelt these cucks w/ shame bombs until moral improves!
Posted by: casual indifference at August 15, 2015 09:57 AM (kf36l)
137
If you don't already know this, you should. There are some people who essentially are professional students. The various education benefits programs they can access make it possible for them to live off the funds, go to classes, maybe graduate with a variety of graduate degrees, and put off becoming adults for a decade or more.
Many many MANY of these people are foreign nationals.
China sends a ton of people to the U.S. to continue to attend school far into their 20s, and often well into their 30s.
It's a lifestyle choice, like everything else. You pay for them to do this, just like you pay for illegal mexicans to send their kids to elementary, middle, and high screwels. Main difference is, I guess, getting legal status to attend kollege and grad screwel is a-ok.
Many many MANY of these people are foreign nationals.
China sends a ton of people to the U.S. to continue to attend school far into their 20s, and often well into their 30s.
It's a lifestyle choice, like everything else. You pay for them to do this, just like you pay for illegal mexicans to send their kids to elementary, middle, and high screwels. Main difference is, I guess, getting legal status to attend kollege and grad screwel is a-ok.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 09:57 AM (Dj0WE)
138
I am sure many companies game the system, but that is what the law is now.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM (2Ocf1)
Typically they get aroubd this by advertising stuff like " must have experience in XYZSoftware v 14.2.12 release 6.011, WRZSoftware v2.6.03 release dzx200..."
If you are off by one version digit then sorry, your resume doesn't get passed the auto-filter.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM (2Ocf1)
Typically they get aroubd this by advertising stuff like " must have experience in XYZSoftware v 14.2.12 release 6.011, WRZSoftware v2.6.03 release dzx200..."
If you are off by one version digit then sorry, your resume doesn't get passed the auto-filter.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:59 AM (cbfNE)
139
If you think it's hard explaining bad grades to your parents try explaining them to your spouse.
Posted by: Dave, exiled in RI at August 15, 2015 10:00 AM (SSqoU)
140
Main difference is, I guess, getting legal status to attend kollege and grad screwel is a-ok.
Legal status not required in progressive states such as CA. Hell we give illegals SCHOLARSHIPS.
Get YOUR state on board, you backwards hicks!
Main difference is, I guess, getting legal status to attend kollege and grad screwel is a-ok.
Legal status not required in progressive states such as CA. Hell we give illegals SCHOLARSHIPS.
Get YOUR state on board, you backwards hicks!
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 10:01 AM (LAliD)
141
"We have a metric fuckton of immigration laws in this country besides these. So what?"
If we have "laws" but no one enforces them, then, "law" means little. The underpinning of civil society goes crashing down.
Oy, where we find ourselves.
If we have "laws" but no one enforces them, then, "law" means little. The underpinning of civil society goes crashing down.
Oy, where we find ourselves.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 10:01 AM (PF0mN)
142
H1b visas already require a showing that the is no
US citizen for the job. You have to advertise the position and show no
other candidates.
I am sure many companies game the system, but that is what the law is now.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM (2Ocf1)
Funny how legislation doesn't work as intended when a) it's not enforced, and b) when a very large portion of the population are not a "religious and moral" people!
US citizen for the job. You have to advertise the position and show no
other candidates.
I am sure many companies game the system, but that is what the law is now.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 09:55 AM (2Ocf1)
Funny how legislation doesn't work as intended when a) it's not enforced, and b) when a very large portion of the population are not a "religious and moral" people!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 10:01 AM (ftVQq)
143
Sheesh, there's already a surfeit of college graduates. We need more jobs for them all, not more diplomas. Start by shutting down the H1-B scam, especially in IT.
Posted by: gp at August 15, 2015 10:01 AM (+Jpqc)
144
138 Or just advertise such a low salary that no American will bite
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 10:01 AM (LAliD)
145
Oh, and typically the agency and company laready have an H1-B candidate when they run the phoney baloney ad.
Has anyone ever been hired by responding to such an ad?
Has anyone ever been hired by responding to such an ad?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:02 AM (cbfNE)
146
@142 anecdotal but in the DC area the biggest abusers of the h1b program are government contractors.
And it seems like every one I have run into has been run by Indians.
And it seems like every one I have run into has been run by Indians.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 10:03 AM (2Ocf1)
147
" try explaining them to your spouse."
Oh no. Oh boy. Makes the parents look like child's play. Do not envy.
Oh no. Oh boy. Makes the parents look like child's play. Do not envy.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 10:03 AM (PF0mN)
148
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 10:01 AM (PF0mN)
We are no longer governed as a Nation of Laws, not Men, but we are governed as Nation of Girly-Men by Mean Girly-Men Rules.
We are no longer governed as a Nation of Laws, not Men, but we are governed as Nation of Girly-Men by Mean Girly-Men Rules.
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 10:04 AM (ftVQq)
149
"And it seems like every one I have run into has been run by Indians."
Heh, just like the few 7-11s I've been in.
Heh, just like the few 7-11s I've been in.
Posted by: Joey Choo Choo at August 15, 2015 10:05 AM (PF0mN)
150
If you are off by one version digit then sorry, your resume doesn't get passed the auto-filter.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:59 AM
Interestingly enough, when I was married to a Canadian and we were thinking of emigrating there (around 1980), there was a "point system" to see if they'd let you in. Part of that had to do with work: if you wanted a job, the government made sure there was no Canadian, qualified or otherwise, interested in doing it before you got points for chasing down a gig.
At the time, I was in a fairly esoteric field, and expected everyone who could was actually doing up there. Boy, was I wrong.
P.S. I didn't have near enough points to get in, as I was told in no uncertain terms.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:59 AM
Interestingly enough, when I was married to a Canadian and we were thinking of emigrating there (around 1980), there was a "point system" to see if they'd let you in. Part of that had to do with work: if you wanted a job, the government made sure there was no Canadian, qualified or otherwise, interested in doing it before you got points for chasing down a gig.
At the time, I was in a fairly esoteric field, and expected everyone who could was actually doing up there. Boy, was I wrong.
P.S. I didn't have near enough points to get in, as I was told in no uncertain terms.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 10:05 AM (0atQl)
151
129 125 the college kid is going thru has the waiver, but the parent would have to show up in person to access anything coz tge collrge doesn't want to implement any kind of phone / email verification protocol. #eyeroll
So we are just going to have to know her log in info.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:52 AM (cbfNE)
*********
My son's school has his Dad and I recorded with identifying information, including last four of SSN, so that we can call any office on campus for information.
He went through a minor "crisis" a couple of years ago and I had to go there to assist in getting things straightened out. They checked whether I was on his form before speaking with me. One of the folks confided in me that it was much more helpful to them to be able to speak with the parents because they could catch and fix problems before it was too late to do anything about them.
So we are just going to have to know her log in info.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:52 AM (cbfNE)
*********
My son's school has his Dad and I recorded with identifying information, including last four of SSN, so that we can call any office on campus for information.
He went through a minor "crisis" a couple of years ago and I had to go there to assist in getting things straightened out. They checked whether I was on his form before speaking with me. One of the folks confided in me that it was much more helpful to them to be able to speak with the parents because they could catch and fix problems before it was too late to do anything about them.
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at August 15, 2015 10:05 AM (NqQAS)
152
Along with getting out of the student loan business, government should replace half the permanent bureaucracy with temp teen workers. Help them earn money to go to college, while cutting costs on overpaid govt drones.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:34 AM (cbfNE)
Sure, but most of those federal employees are unemployable anywhere else. They would be on the dole otherwise, so it's a question of where you house and feed them. You aren't going to eliminate the costs.
And sure sure, the federal government run exponentially more smoothly with fewer brain dead federal employees sitting around, but really, do we WANT a more efficient federal government?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 09:34 AM (cbfNE)
Sure, but most of those federal employees are unemployable anywhere else. They would be on the dole otherwise, so it's a question of where you house and feed them. You aren't going to eliminate the costs.
And sure sure, the federal government run exponentially more smoothly with fewer brain dead federal employees sitting around, but really, do we WANT a more efficient federal government?
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:06 AM (Dj0WE)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 10:06 AM (PF0mN)
154
The controls on H1-B don't work. It started out as a necessary program specially when the Y2K crunch was a thing but now it's just a scam. Shut it down. Hire new grads. Train them.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:06 AM (cbfNE)
155
@76 Bruce
"I remember those kids, that you had barely seen in classes, show up the week before finals and ask the prof "What can I do for extra credit?"
Had a math prof (old girl fromGeorgia)my freshman year who actually stood in the door on final exam day and turned several students away. You could hear them protest and she was raising her voice right along with them. "You haven't been here all semester and have not handed in any assignments. Even if youscored a 100% on the final you wouldstill fail this course. Don't waste your time. It's too late now."
@76 Bruce
"I remember those kids, that you had barely seen in classes, show up the week before finals and ask the prof "What can I do for extra credit?"
Had a math prof (old girl fromGeorgia)my freshman year who actually stood in the door on final exam day and turned several students away. You could hear them protest and she was raising her voice right along with them. "You haven't been here all semester and have not handed in any assignments. Even if youscored a 100% on the final you wouldstill fail this course. Don't waste your time. It's too late now."
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at August 15, 2015 10:08 AM (p2+um)
156
And it seems like every one I have run into has been run by Indians.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 10:03 AM (2Ocf1)
And that would dot not feather
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2015 10:03 AM (2Ocf1)
And that would dot not feather
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (R8hU8)
157
154 If the H1B rules were being followed all those Disney workers wouldn't have been training their replacements
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (LAliD)
158
Easy solution to the college grifters...
Bring back the draft except this time only draft those with a 4 year degree.
Masters and those with more than 6 years of "college" if they survive boot camp go straight to ITS and then a line company.
Bring back the draft except this time only draft those with a 4 year degree.
Masters and those with more than 6 years of "college" if they survive boot camp go straight to ITS and then a line company.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (JG47A)
159
Let me give you a small idea how well this works:
Back in the '80's, Ohio (And a few other states) offered FREE tuition to any state Uni for signing up in the National Guard. 6-year commitment (the once-a-month variety) and ALL tuition costs paid, plus pay for your service time. This could have been on top of any prior-service SGLI benefits a few had.
The target number was about 2200 people in the program across the state. This was in effect from about 1982 thru 1988. The bottom truth? Over 6,000 signed up; a few hundred signed up, got college paid, but never showed up in uniform (those WERE found and sent to active duty). Once the state found out how many were really in the program, they immediately cut tuition assistance to 50% of costs, rather than kick 50% of them out. That was in place for about 4 years.
I had mine paid for this way- I left 4 yrs of schooling, with about 3k in loans total. With a really good state school (OSU). it CAN work, but it needs real management. Had to maintain minimum grades, too. Several I knew got dropped for not doing so. And once in, you had to keep going until you obtained the degree. No exceptions, outside the fact of military training requirements or something.
Back in the '80's, Ohio (And a few other states) offered FREE tuition to any state Uni for signing up in the National Guard. 6-year commitment (the once-a-month variety) and ALL tuition costs paid, plus pay for your service time. This could have been on top of any prior-service SGLI benefits a few had.
The target number was about 2200 people in the program across the state. This was in effect from about 1982 thru 1988. The bottom truth? Over 6,000 signed up; a few hundred signed up, got college paid, but never showed up in uniform (those WERE found and sent to active duty). Once the state found out how many were really in the program, they immediately cut tuition assistance to 50% of costs, rather than kick 50% of them out. That was in place for about 4 years.
I had mine paid for this way- I left 4 yrs of schooling, with about 3k in loans total. With a really good state school (OSU). it CAN work, but it needs real management. Had to maintain minimum grades, too. Several I knew got dropped for not doing so. And once in, you had to keep going until you obtained the degree. No exceptions, outside the fact of military training requirements or something.
Posted by: Mr Wolf at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (cjgnX)
160
O/T, but I was wondering who decided that " share the wealth" makes sense? You can only share your own things. If a politician says share the wealth, shouldn't they be talking about their own wealth and ONLY their own wealth? If they are talking about sharing my wealth, shouldn't that be only with my consent?
Posted by: Chilling the most at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (zW5rQ)
161
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at August 15, 2015 10:05 AM (NqQAS)
That sounds nice.
I get a vibe from this college that they seem to encourage kids to be adversarial towards their parents. I don't know if it is in reaction to too many helicopter parents?
That sounds nice.
I get a vibe from this college that they seem to encourage kids to be adversarial towards their parents. I don't know if it is in reaction to too many helicopter parents?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (cbfNE)
162
but really, do we WANT a more efficient federal government?
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:06 AM
Yes, we do in fact want a more efficient federal government.
After, that is, we strip it of most of the authority granted it by a succession of shitweasel Preezys and self-important Congressional fatcats.
I really want them to maintain roads and a strong military most efficiently.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:06 AM
Yes, we do in fact want a more efficient federal government.
After, that is, we strip it of most of the authority granted it by a succession of shitweasel Preezys and self-important Congressional fatcats.
I really want them to maintain roads and a strong military most efficiently.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 10:10 AM (0atQl)
163
Typical Democrat solution to a problem they caused: force everyone else to pay more for it.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 10:11 AM (39g3+)
164
161 Parents are the enemies of all collective institutions
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 10:11 AM (LAliD)
165
Sharing other people's wealth is known as theft.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 10:11 AM (rwI+c)
166
It should be illegal to require an employee to train his H1-B replacement.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:12 AM (cbfNE)
167
"If they are talking about sharing my wealth, shouldn't that be only with my consent?"
Heh. FSA takes care of that via turnout.
Heh. FSA takes care of that via turnout.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 10:12 AM (PF0mN)
168
It should be illegal to require an employee to train his H1-B replacement.
Yeah, you would think that's illegal on it's face.
Yeah, you would think that's illegal on it's face.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 10:12 AM (rwI+c)
169
Chilling the most: read Davy Crockett's "Not Mine to Give" speech in the House of Reps.
Posted by: Dave, exiled in RI at August 15, 2015 10:13 AM (SSqoU)
170
Sat through Charlie Rose interviewing some "pundits" on the Rep debate. The panel included Ed Rollins and some back on Jeb's campaign. I started making bets about whether or not they'd mention Cruz. The reporter from the Wall Street Journal finally did, about twenty minutes into it. She was answering a question on who had the evangelical lock. Unfortunately, you have to sit through swill like this to learn how completely out of touch they are with the rest of the country. It's such a bizzaro world there. Hillary has the lock and is an excellent candidate. Jen is doing well and there's the Kasich surge to ponder. No consideration at all that folks might not turn out to vote for their fabulous candidates.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at August 15, 2015 10:14 AM (Lqy/e)
171
I'm gonna tweet these:
Sharing other people's wealth is known as theft.
Parents are the enemies of all collective institutions
Sharing other people's wealth is known as theft.
Parents are the enemies of all collective institutions
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:14 AM (cbfNE)
172
After, that is, we strip it of most of the authority granted it by a succession of shitweasel Preezys and self-important Congressional fatcats.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 10:10 AM (0atQl)
You're rapidly approaching unicorn sighting level fantasy here.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 10:10 AM (0atQl)
You're rapidly approaching unicorn sighting level fantasy here.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:14 AM (Dj0WE)
173
The controls on H1-B don't work. It started out as a necessary program specially when the Y2K crunch was a thing but now it's just a scam. Shut it down. Hire new grads. Train them.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:06 AM (cbfNE)
They're working perfectly from our vantage point. Hey Mitch, those shoes aren't going to shine themselves.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:06 AM (cbfNE)
They're working perfectly from our vantage point. Hey Mitch, those shoes aren't going to shine themselves.
Posted by: The Chamber of Control at August 15, 2015 10:15 AM (cL79m)
174
A young good looking woman won about 50-60 million in powerball. She had 4 kids, 1 who has cerebral palsy. She went to the press before she even claimed her prize which was stupid.
Anyway, she used 3 million to bail out her bf, Hotsauce, who was in the clink awaiting trial for heroin trafficking. He, of course, broke the conditons of his release and her house was raided and he was arrested again. Now, she ponied up 6 million to get him out.
http://goo.gl/W5iFY9
Man, I hope there is a trust for those kids that she cant get at. What an idiot.
Anyway, she used 3 million to bail out her bf, Hotsauce, who was in the clink awaiting trial for heroin trafficking. He, of course, broke the conditons of his release and her house was raided and he was arrested again. Now, she ponied up 6 million to get him out.
http://goo.gl/W5iFY9
Man, I hope there is a trust for those kids that she cant get at. What an idiot.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at August 15, 2015 10:15 AM (iQIUe)
175
Trump on Hannity - ' I love legal immigrants'.
Just another kleptocrat in waiting.
No candidate wants to stop illegal immigration - WHICH INCLUDES EMPLOYERS LYING TO THE GOVERNMENT ( which is a crime :18 USC 1001 , 18 USC 1546) about 'unavailable American workers' AND 'temporary' jobs ON LEGAL WORK VISA FORMS. THIS LIE ALONE makes THE "LEGAL ALIENS" into ILLEGAL ALIENS.
No candidate plans to reduce the size of government.
No candidate plans to pass a budget .
No candidate plans to reverse course from the kleptocracy and criminal enterprise that America has become.
Let it Burn.
Just another kleptocrat in waiting.
No candidate wants to stop illegal immigration - WHICH INCLUDES EMPLOYERS LYING TO THE GOVERNMENT ( which is a crime :18 USC 1001 , 18 USC 1546) about 'unavailable American workers' AND 'temporary' jobs ON LEGAL WORK VISA FORMS. THIS LIE ALONE makes THE "LEGAL ALIENS" into ILLEGAL ALIENS.
No candidate plans to reduce the size of government.
No candidate plans to pass a budget .
No candidate plans to reverse course from the kleptocracy and criminal enterprise that America has become.
Let it Burn.
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 10:15 AM (HJqXj)
176
If a politician says share the wealth, shouldn't
they be talking about their own wealth and ONLY their own wealth?
Posted by: Chilling the most at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM
You misunderstand. THEIR wealth comes from YOUR wealth.
It's essentially no different than paying protection money to the Mafia: each person in the Family wets their beak when you pay up. The end user (be it teh Godfather or some welfare recipient) gets only a small piece.
they be talking about their own wealth and ONLY their own wealth?
Posted by: Chilling the most at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM
You misunderstand. THEIR wealth comes from YOUR wealth.
It's essentially no different than paying protection money to the Mafia: each person in the Family wets their beak when you pay up. The end user (be it teh Godfather or some welfare recipient) gets only a small piece.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 10:16 AM (0atQl)
177
This just guarantees that Bill and Hill can keep getting college speech gigs for $300K a pop. Wealth transfer - upwards.
Eliminate Hillary's debt, yo!
Eliminate Hillary's debt, yo!
Posted by: Lizzy at August 15, 2015 10:16 AM (NOIQH)
178
The proper solution would be to cut off all the federal dollars from colleges so they are forced to be more frugal and less wasteful; then focus on healing the economy so there are jobs out there for people to get and pay back their debt.
Its nice going to a college with a beautiful massive campus that looks like Versailles, but its wasteful and its part of why your tuition costs more than a car every year.
Its nice going to a college with a beautiful massive campus that looks like Versailles, but its wasteful and its part of why your tuition costs more than a car every year.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 10:16 AM (39g3+)
179
#3 - ROFLMAO.
This
Hillary - Rip off taxpayers to give to leftist professors and call that 'education reform'.
Perry - End the higher ed ripoff by punching leftist professors in the nose and make them work for minimum wage, and give the savings to students.
Trump - Rip off the suckers who sign up for Trump University trying to get rich. The rich get richer! Then call them 'losers' on twitter
Sanders - Cause a stock market crash by destroying trading liquidity through robin hood tax that will kill the liquidity makers (the HFTs). The ensuing Greatest Depression Evah! will make college obsolete, thus curing the college debt crisis.
This
Hillary - Rip off taxpayers to give to leftist professors and call that 'education reform'.
Perry - End the higher ed ripoff by punching leftist professors in the nose and make them work for minimum wage, and give the savings to students.
Trump - Rip off the suckers who sign up for Trump University trying to get rich. The rich get richer! Then call them 'losers' on twitter
Sanders - Cause a stock market crash by destroying trading liquidity through robin hood tax that will kill the liquidity makers (the HFTs). The ensuing Greatest Depression Evah! will make college obsolete, thus curing the college debt crisis.
Posted by: Keep Calm Cruz On at August 15, 2015 10:16 AM (yTnTP)
180
After reading all the comments on education and student loans, it all boils down to this...
You're a lifelong conservative, with three kids ready to go into college in the next few years. The election is tomorrow between Hillary with her free college and loans or Ted Cruz.
Who do you vote for?
Can you say "Madam President"?
You're a lifelong conservative, with three kids ready to go into college in the next few years. The election is tomorrow between Hillary with her free college and loans or Ted Cruz.
Who do you vote for?
Can you say "Madam President"?
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 10:17 AM (P/xrJ)
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 10:18 AM (LAliD)
182
You're rapidly approaching unicorn sighting level fantasy here.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:14 AM
True dat.
But I've already refilled my BP prescriptions this morning. I think I can make it. Even if Ace puts up another let's-all-hate-on-teh-Donald thread or two.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:14 AM
True dat.
But I've already refilled my BP prescriptions this morning. I think I can make it. Even if Ace puts up another let's-all-hate-on-teh-Donald thread or two.
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 10:19 AM (0atQl)
183
OT but not entirely unrelated: just saw n local news there's a huge charity drive to buy school supplies for poor kids.
I'm going to come off a Scrooge here, but WTF do the poor have to buy for their kids nowadays? We have year-round free lunch in Denver, donation drives to buy 'em Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter dinner, toy donations at Christmas time, fall coat donation drives, etc.
You can buy school supplies cheap at Walmart and other stores if you work the weekly sales in August.
Just, ugh!
I'm going to come off a Scrooge here, but WTF do the poor have to buy for their kids nowadays? We have year-round free lunch in Denver, donation drives to buy 'em Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter dinner, toy donations at Christmas time, fall coat donation drives, etc.
You can buy school supplies cheap at Walmart and other stores if you work the weekly sales in August.
Just, ugh!
Posted by: Lizzy at August 15, 2015 10:19 AM (NOIQH)
184
180 A Republic, if you can keep it...
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 10:20 AM (LAliD)
185
"Its nice going to a college with a beautiful massive campus that
looks like Versailles, but its wasteful and its part of why your tuition
costs more than a car every year."
Actually that's not it. the park-like setting has been paid for.
What cost so much is the 10-1 staff to student ratio and professors who only teach 1, 2 or 3 classes a year. Do the math.
looks like Versailles, but its wasteful and its part of why your tuition
costs more than a car every year."
Actually that's not it. the park-like setting has been paid for.
What cost so much is the 10-1 staff to student ratio and professors who only teach 1, 2 or 3 classes a year. Do the math.
Posted by: Keep Calm Cruz On at August 15, 2015 10:20 AM (yTnTP)
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 15, 2015 10:21 AM (LImiJ)
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 10:21 AM (HJqXj)
188
73 Each year (many) students blew off the first two exams, then ran into my office in a panic.
I'm sorry, but some of you parents have done a lousy job teaching your kids personal responsibility.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:24 AM (RWGcK)
My fav teaching story ever was when I got a call from the Dean of Athletics (more important than the President of the University, slightly below God in the hierarchy) about a baseball player who was ostensibly enrolled in my course. Who, of course, needed to pass to graduate, and who hadn't done any homework, and flunked the two tests he had taken. "Well, he's got to pass!" said the Dean. "Well, he's not going to!" said I. "But he's being recruited by the New York Yankees!" said the Dean. "But not if he doesn't graduate!" said I. In the end, after about 15, maybe 30 minutes of this back-and-forth, I told the Dean I was going to give the kid the grade he earned, but that my grades were more like "recommendations," and if somebody above me in the food chain wanted to alter them, that was their prerogative. Never heard from either of them again, as I recall. I had my out, they had their outs, and that retired the side. (SWIDT?)
I'm sorry, but some of you parents have done a lousy job teaching your kids personal responsibility.
Posted by: Y-not at August 15, 2015 09:24 AM (RWGcK)
My fav teaching story ever was when I got a call from the Dean of Athletics (more important than the President of the University, slightly below God in the hierarchy) about a baseball player who was ostensibly enrolled in my course. Who, of course, needed to pass to graduate, and who hadn't done any homework, and flunked the two tests he had taken. "Well, he's got to pass!" said the Dean. "Well, he's not going to!" said I. "But he's being recruited by the New York Yankees!" said the Dean. "But not if he doesn't graduate!" said I. In the end, after about 15, maybe 30 minutes of this back-and-forth, I told the Dean I was going to give the kid the grade he earned, but that my grades were more like "recommendations," and if somebody above me in the food chain wanted to alter them, that was their prerogative. Never heard from either of them again, as I recall. I had my out, they had their outs, and that retired the side. (SWIDT?)
Posted by: Agent J at August 15, 2015 10:23 AM (ueOgE)
189
I'm not a lifelong conservative and there is nothing Hillary can say or do that would ever get me to vote for her.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 15, 2015 10:23 AM (OSs/l)
190
You're a lifelong conservative, with three kids ready to go into college
in the next few years. The election is tomorrow between Hillary with
her free college and loans or Ted Cruz.
Who do you vote for?
Can you say "Madam President"?
I'm a lifelong conservative, who has put 3 kids through college myself, and am currently working on a 4th. I've never voted for Hillary or anyone like her. Try again, troll.
in the next few years. The election is tomorrow between Hillary with
her free college and loans or Ted Cruz.
Who do you vote for?
Can you say "Madam President"?
I'm a lifelong conservative, who has put 3 kids through college myself, and am currently working on a 4th. I've never voted for Hillary or anyone like her. Try again, troll.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 10:23 AM (LAe3v)
191
Dems love exorbitant college costs because then they can collect $300K campus speaking fees.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:24 AM (cbfNE)
192
Introducing govt funding always starts with some noble sentiment but always becomes a foot in the door to huge and costly vote-buying schemes.
It's almost as if we're rediscovering the Tea Party principles.
Introducing govt funding always starts with some noble sentiment but always becomes a foot in the door to huge and costly vote-buying schemes.
It's almost as if we're rediscovering the Tea Party principles.
Posted by: MAx at August 15, 2015 10:24 AM (LAliD)
193
The bottom line is, the educational industrial complex is one of the main bastions of the enemy. If we are not going to kill it, it will continue to churn out its minions.
And we're not going to kill it.
I'm not going to bicker and argue over how to reform it though. That strikes me as silly.
And we're not going to kill it.
I'm not going to bicker and argue over how to reform it though. That strikes me as silly.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:25 AM (Dj0WE)
194
Actually that's not it. the park-like setting has been paid for.
What cost so much is the 10-1 staff to student ratio and professors who only teach 1, 2 or 3 classes a year. Do the math.
Oh, that's where most of the money goes. But that campus is still being paid on, as is the new building they put up each year and all the renovations that go on every summer. I live near two colleges; I see what goes on when the kids are away at home. And its not cheap to keep a 100-acre park looking immaculate, not to mention the taxes.
What cost so much is the 10-1 staff to student ratio and professors who only teach 1, 2 or 3 classes a year. Do the math.
Oh, that's where most of the money goes. But that campus is still being paid on, as is the new building they put up each year and all the renovations that go on every summer. I live near two colleges; I see what goes on when the kids are away at home. And its not cheap to keep a 100-acre park looking immaculate, not to mention the taxes.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 10:26 AM (39g3+)
195
For all intents and purposes, the early morning thread is not currently active now. Or else everybody just wants to talk politics.
Posted by: rickl at August 15, 2015 10:27 AM (sdi6R)
196
The gist of a $300,000 Clinton speech: The Ten Commandments, ignore that shit.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 15, 2015 10:27 AM (LImiJ)
197
I'm not a lifelong conservative and there is nothing Hillary can say or do that would ever get me to vote for her.
Yeah parents are generally smart enough to know what "free" means in "free college;" they get to pay for it anyway, plus for kids they aren't even raising.
But college kids and new voters? Guys who just hit 18 and are thinking about a 30k/year college bill? Yeah.
Yeah parents are generally smart enough to know what "free" means in "free college;" they get to pay for it anyway, plus for kids they aren't even raising.
But college kids and new voters? Guys who just hit 18 and are thinking about a 30k/year college bill? Yeah.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 10:27 AM (39g3+)
198
And if your child attends public schools you might as well get them the cheapest, crappiest schools supplies because on the first day of class their teacher pools all of the supplies in the closet and gives them out as needed, ensuring that your smooth Ticonderaga pencils and sturdy file folders will be given to some other kid.
Posted by: Lizzy at August 15, 2015 10:27 AM (NOIQH)
199
Colleges and universities should be funded by corporate sponsors not government loans and grants.
Of course that means that they would have to fight for room at the trough with the Uniparty Congress , so...
Of course that means that they would have to fight for room at the trough with the Uniparty Congress , so...
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 10:28 AM (HJqXj)
200
118 Japan surrendered 70 years ago TODAY. Posted by: Nip Sip at August 15, 2015 09:44 AM
And just this year, America surrendered to Iran and Cuba.
Who'd'a thunk it?
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:46 AM (0atQl)
Kee-rist. Wasn't there anybody better we could've surrendered to? Russia maybe? Iran and Cuba, SMFH.
And just this year, America surrendered to Iran and Cuba.
Who'd'a thunk it?
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 15, 2015 09:46 AM (0atQl)
Kee-rist. Wasn't there anybody better we could've surrendered to? Russia maybe? Iran and Cuba, SMFH.
Posted by: Agent J at August 15, 2015 10:29 AM (ueOgE)
201
You're a lifelong conservative, with three kids ready to go into college in the next few years. The election is tomorrow between Hillary with her free college and loans or Ted Cruz. Who do you vote for? Can you say "Madam President"?Posted by: jwest
---
"everyone living at the expense of everyone else"
We're doomed to fall into this trap. Join the FSA and screw over your fellow citizens.
The other solution would be to reduce taxes so you'd have more of your own money to spend.
---
"everyone living at the expense of everyone else"
We're doomed to fall into this trap. Join the FSA and screw over your fellow citizens.
The other solution would be to reduce taxes so you'd have more of your own money to spend.
Posted by: bastiat at August 15, 2015 10:29 AM (qd6sQ)
202
161
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (cbfNE)
*******
These institutions think a little too highly of themselves. It's as if they believe the "college experience" is more important than the "college education".
They don't like it when parents put a value on it that's defined by dollars and cents. My child's degree is something I am paying for, and I am not getting value for my dollar.
I need to be able to complain to them just like I complain if a contractor does a bad job on a repair.
They think they are above that type of accountability
161
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (cbfNE)
*******
These institutions think a little too highly of themselves. It's as if they believe the "college experience" is more important than the "college education".
They don't like it when parents put a value on it that's defined by dollars and cents. My child's degree is something I am paying for, and I am not getting value for my dollar.
I need to be able to complain to them just like I complain if a contractor does a bad job on a repair.
They think they are above that type of accountability
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at August 15, 2015 10:31 AM (NqQAS)
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 15, 2015 10:31 AM (LImiJ)
204
The other solution would be to reduce taxes so you'd have more of your own money to spend.
Posted by: bastiat
more Clintonisms this time from the one with a penis -
" We could give you that (tax) money back and hope that you spend it right."
Posted by: bastiat
more Clintonisms this time from the one with a penis -
" We could give you that (tax) money back and hope that you spend it right."
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 10:31 AM (HJqXj)
205
They think they are above that type of accountability
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily
Historically speaking, they are correct.
Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily
Historically speaking, they are correct.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 10:32 AM (LAe3v)
206
180 (I)t all boils down to this...
You're a lifelong conservative, with three kids ready to go into college in the next few years. TWho do you vote for?
Can you say "Madam President"?
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 10:17 AM (P/xrJ)
This. I'm a cis-het white Christian conservative male, f*cked seven ways to Sunday, still paying off the ex-'s credit card bill. I've had enough. Biggest kid heads to college in 2017. Trough, here I come! I, for one, welcome our new First Woman President, and her free college program!
For those who want things to burn, $350B (probably more like a $trillion) down the toilet will be an excellent accelerant.
You're a lifelong conservative, with three kids ready to go into college in the next few years. TWho do you vote for?
Can you say "Madam President"?
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 10:17 AM (P/xrJ)
This. I'm a cis-het white Christian conservative male, f*cked seven ways to Sunday, still paying off the ex-'s credit card bill. I've had enough. Biggest kid heads to college in 2017. Trough, here I come! I, for one, welcome our new First Woman President, and her free college program!
For those who want things to burn, $350B (probably more like a $trillion) down the toilet will be an excellent accelerant.
Posted by: Agent J at August 15, 2015 10:33 AM (ueOgE)
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 10:34 AM (P/xrJ)
208
Oh, that's where most of the money goes. But that campus is still being paid on, as is the new building they put up each year and all the renovations that go on every summer. I live near two colleges; I see what goes on when the kids are away at home. And its not cheap to keep a 100-acre park looking immaculate, not to mention the taxes.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 10:26 AM (39g3+)
I go past St. Louis University relatively frequently, and they are essentially buying up as large a portion of St. Louis city as they can. Buildings go up, fountains and gates and repaved roads go in. That's a shedload of money being spent. Not a single dime of it makes the education any better.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 10:26 AM (39g3+)
I go past St. Louis University relatively frequently, and they are essentially buying up as large a portion of St. Louis city as they can. Buildings go up, fountains and gates and repaved roads go in. That's a shedload of money being spent. Not a single dime of it makes the education any better.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:34 AM (Dj0WE)
209
@159 Mr Wolf
I did ahitch in the army and the GI Bill covered my whole tuition costs for my 4 years at OSU. Iowedabout 2k in loans andsent them a check for the full amount a week after getting my degree.
Of note, I once heard only 10% of veterans actually take advantage of the GI Bill program. As active duty personnelwere forced to participate in their first year, and it is not refundable evenif you do not utilize after 10 years of ETS, it sounds like the program is almost self sufficient.
@159 Mr Wolf
I did ahitch in the army and the GI Bill covered my whole tuition costs for my 4 years at OSU. Iowedabout 2k in loans andsent them a check for the full amount a week after getting my degree.
Of note, I once heard only 10% of veterans actually take advantage of the GI Bill program. As active duty personnelwere forced to participate in their first year, and it is not refundable evenif you do not utilize after 10 years of ETS, it sounds like the program is almost self sufficient.
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at August 15, 2015 10:34 AM (p2+um)
210
Just do it like the SEC. Your cost for college depends on your yards per carry average.
Posted by: Dave, exiled in RI at August 15, 2015 10:35 AM (SSqoU)
211
Perry had his chance last time around...and blew it. I like some things about him, but I think he's done. Besides, he keeps saying he sealed the border in Texas. That's delusional.
Perry had his chance last time around...and blew it. I like some things about him, but I think he's done. Besides, he keeps saying he sealed the border in Texas. That's delusional.
Posted by: GBruno at August 15, 2015 10:36 AM (u49WF)
212
You've heard Hillary's joke?
Hillary: "You may have seen that I recently launched a snapchat account. I love it. I love it. Those messages disappear all by themselves."
Boy, is she hip!
Hillary: "You may have seen that I recently launched a snapchat account. I love it. I love it. Those messages disappear all by themselves."
Boy, is she hip!
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 15, 2015 10:37 AM (LImiJ)
213
"I'm a lifelong conservative, who has put 3 kids through college myself, and am currently working on a 4th. I've never voted for Hillary or anyone like her. Try again, troll. "
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 10:23 AM (LAe3v)
If only presidents were elected by the 3% of people that way, there would be a lot more republicans in the White House.
The other 97% want free shit.
Even the conservative ones who can't put 3 kids through college.
Democrats steal from producers and the future to give free shit to buy votes. A lot of times this works because people are trying to get by and will take what their family needs immediately instead of what is best in the long run.
Republicans can help people, but choose not to for some reason. There are conservative ways to make life easier for everyone, but there is some socio/religious dogma that insists that if there is a hard way to something, that is the way it needs to be done.
Of course, it's hard to win votes like that.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 10:23 AM (LAe3v)
If only presidents were elected by the 3% of people that way, there would be a lot more republicans in the White House.
The other 97% want free shit.
Even the conservative ones who can't put 3 kids through college.
Democrats steal from producers and the future to give free shit to buy votes. A lot of times this works because people are trying to get by and will take what their family needs immediately instead of what is best in the long run.
Republicans can help people, but choose not to for some reason. There are conservative ways to make life easier for everyone, but there is some socio/religious dogma that insists that if there is a hard way to something, that is the way it needs to be done.
Of course, it's hard to win votes like that.
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 10:37 AM (P/xrJ)
214
What is the conservative short term solution to the college loan crisis?
How does the right coubter Hillary's free loans for votes gambit?
How does the right coubter Hillary's free loans for votes gambit?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:40 AM (cbfNE)
215
@ 180 jwest
It isn't "free." Unless you want to wait with the womanstill waiting for Obama to pay her mortgage and tank up her car.
@ 180 jwest
It isn't "free." Unless you want to wait with the womanstill waiting for Obama to pay her mortgage and tank up her car.
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at August 15, 2015 10:41 AM (p2+um)
216
>>Republicans can help people, but choose not to for some reason. There are conservative ways to make life easier for everyone, but there is some socio/religious dogma that insists that if there is a hard way to something, that is the way it needs to be done.
Uh, no. Conservatives/Republicans support a lot of *private charity*, and donate to these organizations at a higher rate than Democrats. It's not that they don't want to help, it's that they differ on the best method for providing that help, and whether it is help that gets them a leg up vs. help that inspires them not change (so as not to risk the entitlements).
Uh, no. Conservatives/Republicans support a lot of *private charity*, and donate to these organizations at a higher rate than Democrats. It's not that they don't want to help, it's that they differ on the best method for providing that help, and whether it is help that gets them a leg up vs. help that inspires them not change (so as not to risk the entitlements).
Posted by: Lizzy at August 15, 2015 10:42 AM (NOIQH)
217
"...low-interest grants..."
Perhaps 'grants' have change since I went to school or even since I sent my kids thru college.
I always thought loans were interest bearing, grants not- even most grants did not need to be repaid.
But then again, I'm just an old white guy. I don't get the updated Liberal Dictionary, which has the new definitions of words.
Perhaps 'grants' have change since I went to school or even since I sent my kids thru college.
I always thought loans were interest bearing, grants not- even most grants did not need to be repaid.
But then again, I'm just an old white guy. I don't get the updated Liberal Dictionary, which has the new definitions of words.
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 10:42 AM (vHlQ5)
218
(I apologize in advance for the length of this. Note how the notion of a "right" has been perverted from something you can't be justly denied into something that others must provide for you. "Freedom to choose" has been perverted into "Freedom from want at others' expense")
"Necessitous men are not free men. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all -- regardless of station, race or creed.
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries, or shops, or farms, or mines of the Nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right of adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."
FDR State of the Union Address 1944
"Necessitous men are not free men. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all -- regardless of station, race or creed.
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries, or shops, or farms, or mines of the Nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right of adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."
FDR State of the Union Address 1944
Posted by: The new thoughtful civil Muldoon at August 15, 2015 10:46 AM (NeFrd)
219
211
Perry had his chance last time around...and blew it. I like some things about him, but I think he's done. Besides, he keeps saying he sealed the border in Texas. That's delusional.
Posted by: GBruno at August 15, 2015 10:36 AM (u49WF)
Yeah, Perry is a BS artist as far as I am concerned.
Perry had his chance last time around...and blew it. I like some things about him, but I think he's done. Besides, he keeps saying he sealed the border in Texas. That's delusional.
Posted by: GBruno at August 15, 2015 10:36 AM (u49WF)
Yeah, Perry is a BS artist as far as I am concerned.
Posted by: rickl at August 15, 2015 10:48 AM (sdi6R)
220
There is a simple solution that I've used with my
kids. I can't force the university to show me their grades (excellent,
thanks for asking), but I sure can force my kids to.
Would you like to go back to school next semester? Let's see the grades.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:33 AM (LAe3v)
Absofuckinglutely.Worked like a charm for me.
kids. I can't force the university to show me their grades (excellent,
thanks for asking), but I sure can force my kids to.
Would you like to go back to school next semester? Let's see the grades.
Posted by: pep at August 15, 2015 09:33 AM (LAe3v)
Absofuckinglutely.Worked like a charm for me.
Posted by: Sixkiller at August 15, 2015 10:48 AM (hRytD)
221
I always thought loans were interest bearing, grants not- even most grants did not need to be repaid.
--
I didn't know there were any grants that had to be repaid. I mean, wouldn't that make them a loan, not a grant?
--
I didn't know there were any grants that had to be repaid. I mean, wouldn't that make them a loan, not a grant?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:50 AM (cbfNE)
222
218
Posted by: The new thoughtful civil Muldoon at August 15, 2015 10:46 AM (NeFrd)
That litany of "rights" was not far off from the NSDAP platform. Funny, that.
Posted by: The new thoughtful civil Muldoon at August 15, 2015 10:46 AM (NeFrd)
That litany of "rights" was not far off from the NSDAP platform. Funny, that.
Posted by: rickl at August 15, 2015 10:50 AM (sdi6R)
223
214 What is the conservative short term solution to the college loan crisis?
How does the right coubter Hillary's free loans for votes gambit?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:40 AM (cbfNE)
I like the idea of using the conservative premise that the federal government should be as small and efficient as possible and shouldn't "own" a large percentage of country as a start.
These assets are the property of the citizens. A conservative position would be to establish a mechanism where the federal government's assets are monetized with a 100+ year horizon and pay off not only the federal debt, but other types of debt to distribute the cash in a way that is proportional to the contribution the citizens have made.
How does the right coubter Hillary's free loans for votes gambit?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:40 AM (cbfNE)
I like the idea of using the conservative premise that the federal government should be as small and efficient as possible and shouldn't "own" a large percentage of country as a start.
These assets are the property of the citizens. A conservative position would be to establish a mechanism where the federal government's assets are monetized with a 100+ year horizon and pay off not only the federal debt, but other types of debt to distribute the cash in a way that is proportional to the contribution the citizens have made.
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 10:52 AM (P/xrJ)
224
Everyone keeps saying "Chamber of Commerce."
NOBODY names names . . .
Who specifically is supporting their immigration crapfest?
NOBODY names names . . .
Who specifically is supporting their immigration crapfest?
Posted by: Far Post at August 15, 2015 10:53 AM (lFgj4)
225
As I raised four kids alone, I think I can comment on the 'school supplies' scam. Teachers want some rather expensive supplies, and even if you hit all the sales to survive the year, inevitably there are projects requiring markers, posterboards and 'special' science equipment that aren't mentioned earlier in the school year.
Shopping sales to get gym shoes -- okay, you can get $30 shoes. The problem becomes exponential when you are getting four pairs. Anyone on a tight budget can come up with $30 -- $120 is something else. I used to make jokes about it; it is not simply multiplicative, costs become exponential
Shopping sales to get gym shoes -- okay, you can get $30 shoes. The problem becomes exponential when you are getting four pairs. Anyone on a tight budget can come up with $30 -- $120 is something else. I used to make jokes about it; it is not simply multiplicative, costs become exponential
Posted by: mustbequantum at August 15, 2015 10:55 AM (MIKMs)
226
198 And if your child attends public schools you might as well get them the cheapest, crappiest schools supplies because on the first day of class their teacher pools all of the supplies in the closet and gives them out as needed, ensuring that your smooth Ticonderaga pencils and sturdy file folders will be given to some other kid.
Posted by: Lizzy at August 15, 2015 10:27 AM (NOIQH)
So kids get their first lesson in socialism on the very first day of kindergarten. Wonderful.
Try this: Don't give them any supplies. If the teacher complains, plead poverty and say that you assumed that she would get a pencil or crayon from some richer kid who can afford it.
If every parent did that, the kiddies would get a real lesson in socialism. Hellooo, Venezuela!
Posted by: Lizzy at August 15, 2015 10:27 AM (NOIQH)
So kids get their first lesson in socialism on the very first day of kindergarten. Wonderful.
Try this: Don't give them any supplies. If the teacher complains, plead poverty and say that you assumed that she would get a pencil or crayon from some richer kid who can afford it.
If every parent did that, the kiddies would get a real lesson in socialism. Hellooo, Venezuela!
Posted by: rickl at August 15, 2015 10:56 AM (sdi6R)
227
If a politician says share the wealth, shouldn't
they be talking about their own wealth and ONLY their own wealth? If
they are talking about sharing my wealth, shouldn't that be only with my
consent?
Posted by: Chilling the most at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (zW5rQ)
Government is just another name for things we politicians do together to you, for your own good of course!
they be talking about their own wealth and ONLY their own wealth? If
they are talking about sharing my wealth, shouldn't that be only with my
consent?
Posted by: Chilling the most at August 15, 2015 10:09 AM (zW5rQ)
Government is just another name for things we politicians do together to you, for your own good of course!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (ftVQq)
228
These assets are the property of the citizens. A conservative position would be to establish a mechanism where the federal government's assets are monetized with a 100+ year horizon and pay off not only the federal debt, but other types of debt to distribute the cash in a way that is proportional to the contribution the citizens have made.
--
What does this mean? Start selling off Federal assets and divide the proceeds among the citizens?
--
What does this mean? Start selling off Federal assets and divide the proceeds among the citizens?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (cbfNE)
229
"Who specifically is supporting their immigration crapfest?"
Take your pick I guess.
https://www.uschamber.com/
Take your pick I guess.
https://www.uschamber.com/
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (PF0mN)
230
105 Hrothgar~~
"H1B visas are numerically limited, with a total of 85,000 visas available each fiscal year (20,000 of these visas are restricted to individuals who have received master's degrees or higher from U.S colleges or universities). This limitation is referred to as the H1B cap."
20,000 jobs? Aren't we getting caught up in the weeds, in this particular area of immigration?
"H1B visas are numerically limited, with a total of 85,000 visas available each fiscal year (20,000 of these visas are restricted to individuals who have received master's degrees or higher from U.S colleges or universities). This limitation is referred to as the H1B cap."
20,000 jobs? Aren't we getting caught up in the weeds, in this particular area of immigration?
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (vHlQ5)
231
If that's the 'Compact'.... I'd hate to see the Expanded version!
Posted by: huh at August 15, 2015 10:58 AM (JjLO7)
232
Whatever model one prefers -
- Clinton model is a massive transfer of wealth to the ivory tower in exchange for your grand-children's slavery
- Perry model attempts to keep cost down low enough so everyone, down to every lowlife scofflaw who drifts acrost the Texxas border, can get a guaranteed loan.
Both ensure that the value of a degree will be diminished while at the same time saturating society with Kruger-Dunning Archetype busybody self-important no-nothings (with paper which proves they are the smart) telling everybody what to do.
- Clinton model is a massive transfer of wealth to the ivory tower in exchange for your grand-children's slavery
- Perry model attempts to keep cost down low enough so everyone, down to every lowlife scofflaw who drifts acrost the Texxas border, can get a guaranteed loan.
Both ensure that the value of a degree will be diminished while at the same time saturating society with Kruger-Dunning Archetype busybody self-important no-nothings (with paper which proves they are the smart) telling everybody what to do.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at August 15, 2015 10:59 AM (NaeCR)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 15, 2015 10:59 AM (PF0mN)
234
At the kid's charter school, the teachers put out 2 lists. One is personal school supplies and the other is an optional wish list of stuff the classroom needs,
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:59 AM (cbfNE)
235
People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
FDR was warning about this. The present administration appears to be taking it to heart as a primer on how to govern.
FDR was warning about this. The present administration appears to be taking it to heart as a primer on how to govern.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 11:03 AM (39g3+)
236
As voiced by FDR the progressive agenda is all about seducing people with the elusive promise of a world free of risk, free of work, free of illness, free of struggle. A national pipe dream.
Posted by: The new thoughtful civil Muldoon at August 15, 2015 11:04 AM (NeFrd)
237
H1B visas are numerically limited, with a total of 85,000 visas available each fiscal year
--
According the Obama's phoney job numbers, in 2014 only 215,000 new jobs were created.
Bear in mind the numbers don't say how many of these are part-time.
85,000 full time salaried jobs in IT is a LOT.
--
According the Obama's phoney job numbers, in 2014 only 215,000 new jobs were created.
Bear in mind the numbers don't say how many of these are part-time.
85,000 full time salaried jobs in IT is a LOT.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:05 AM (cbfNE)
238
I sense a recurring theme
in our nationalistic pipe dream
All change-y and hope-y, yeah
A full scale Utopia
A multi-trillion failed Ponzi scheme.
in our nationalistic pipe dream
All change-y and hope-y, yeah
A full scale Utopia
A multi-trillion failed Ponzi scheme.
Posted by: The new thoughtful civil Muldoon at August 15, 2015 11:05 AM (NeFrd)
239
20,000 jobs? Aren't we getting caught up in the weeds, in this particular area of immigration?
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (vHlQ5)
"Weeds" is a relative term!
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (vHlQ5)
"Weeds" is a relative term!
Posted by: Disney Worker Training His Replacement at August 15, 2015 11:05 AM (ftVQq)
240
What does this mean? Start selling off Federal assets and divide the proceeds among the citizens?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (cbfNE)
Exactly.
But you can't just dump what would be $70 trillion in assets immediately because there just isn't that much money around. An entity has to be created that can distribute the money while selling off the assets in a orderly fashion over a century.
Some of the assets are going down in value. Like oil, we could come to a point where it's just not a fuel anyone will want. Who knows what's going to happen over the next 100 years?
Also, there are assets we don't even know about on, above or underneath the land and continental shelves the government controls. There is technology that the government has paid for that can be sold.
What does this mean? Start selling off Federal assets and divide the proceeds among the citizens?
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM (cbfNE)
Exactly.
But you can't just dump what would be $70 trillion in assets immediately because there just isn't that much money around. An entity has to be created that can distribute the money while selling off the assets in a orderly fashion over a century.
Some of the assets are going down in value. Like oil, we could come to a point where it's just not a fuel anyone will want. Who knows what's going to happen over the next 100 years?
Also, there are assets we don't even know about on, above or underneath the land and continental shelves the government controls. There is technology that the government has paid for that can be sold.
Posted by: jwest at August 15, 2015 11:06 AM (P/xrJ)
241
a world free of risk, free of work, free of illness, free of struggle. A national pipe dream.
--
Sounds like a graveyard.
Hey, maybe that's why commie utopias always end up with mass graves.
--
Sounds like a graveyard.
Hey, maybe that's why commie utopias always end up with mass graves.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:06 AM (cbfNE)
242
@ 208
I go past St. Louis University relatively frequently, and they are essentially buying up as large a portion of St. Louis city as they can. Buildings go up, fountains and gates and repaved roads go in. That's a shedload of money being spent. Not a single dime of it makes the education any better.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:34 AM (Dj0WE
SLU has so caved to the Black Lives Matter crowd, that they went so far as to remove the statue of their own founder.
I no longer have the respect for the institution that I once had. Same with Marquette in Milwaukee.
And I, at one point, was Jesuit educated.
I go past St. Louis University relatively frequently, and they are essentially buying up as large a portion of St. Louis city as they can. Buildings go up, fountains and gates and repaved roads go in. That's a shedload of money being spent. Not a single dime of it makes the education any better.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 15, 2015 10:34 AM (Dj0WE
SLU has so caved to the Black Lives Matter crowd, that they went so far as to remove the statue of their own founder.
I no longer have the respect for the institution that I once had. Same with Marquette in Milwaukee.
And I, at one point, was Jesuit educated.
Posted by: GBruno at August 15, 2015 11:09 AM (u49WF)
243
"H1B visas are numerically limited, with a total of 85,000 visas
available each fiscal year (20,000 of these visas are restricted to
individuals who have received master's degrees or higher from U.S
colleges or universities). This limitation is referred to as the H1B
cap."
20,000 jobs? Aren't we getting caught up in the weeds, in this particular area of immigration?
Posted by: socalcon
Again:
Employers are REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to advertise the jobs to Americans FIRST and conduct a labor market test .
NO H VISAS WOULD EVER BE ISSUED IF THE EMPLOYERS DIDN'T LIE ABOUT AVAILABLE AMERICANS.
Also :
The whole ' work visa ' thing is a scam . It is in no way attached to the unemployment or underemployment rates.
If America has 20% unemployment , the employers ( Microsoft , HP, etc) CAN AND WILL get the cheaper foreign labor FIRST.
These companies LIE to the government (18 USC 1001) .
Also the foreign visa holders overstay and NEVER LEAVE.
AND ...
THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT MONITOR OUTBOUND FOREIGNERS!
So no one knows who is here or who has left!
Employers lie again, another 1000 visas for 'temporary jobs for highly skilled experts in the field', but magically no available Americans.
It is a scam that NO Uniparty politician will touch because it pays their donors who turn pay them.
LiB
"H1B visas are numerically limited, with a total of 85,000 visas
available each fiscal year (20,000 of these visas are restricted to
individuals who have received master's degrees or higher from U.S
colleges or universities). This limitation is referred to as the H1B
cap."
20,000 jobs? Aren't we getting caught up in the weeds, in this particular area of immigration?
Posted by: socalcon
Again:
Employers are REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to advertise the jobs to Americans FIRST and conduct a labor market test .
NO H VISAS WOULD EVER BE ISSUED IF THE EMPLOYERS DIDN'T LIE ABOUT AVAILABLE AMERICANS.
Also :
The whole ' work visa ' thing is a scam . It is in no way attached to the unemployment or underemployment rates.
If America has 20% unemployment , the employers ( Microsoft , HP, etc) CAN AND WILL get the cheaper foreign labor FIRST.
These companies LIE to the government (18 USC 1001) .
Also the foreign visa holders overstay and NEVER LEAVE.
AND ...
THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT MONITOR OUTBOUND FOREIGNERS!
So no one knows who is here or who has left!
Employers lie again, another 1000 visas for 'temporary jobs for highly skilled experts in the field', but magically no available Americans.
It is a scam that NO Uniparty politician will touch because it pays their donors who turn pay them.
LiB
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:09 AM (HJqXj)
244
/rant off
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:10 AM (HJqXj)
245
That's a shedload of money being spent. Not a single dime of it makes the education any better.
Exactly. When you add that to the massive administrative staff at these places, growing each year with new worthless jobs like vice president of diversity and so on... its a huge scheme to pump money into academics so they can work in a palace and hire their buddies. This has to be stopped, and will be, if by no other means than simply running out of money.
Exactly. When you add that to the massive administrative staff at these places, growing each year with new worthless jobs like vice president of diversity and so on... its a huge scheme to pump money into academics so they can work in a palace and hire their buddies. This has to be stopped, and will be, if by no other means than simply running out of money.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 11:12 AM (39g3+)
246
I tweeted this:
Officially 215K jobs were created in 2014 ( incl part time etc).
The annual H1-B cap is 85K visas.
More than 1/3 of new jobs went to H1-Bs.
Officially 215K jobs were created in 2014 ( incl part time etc).
The annual H1-B cap is 85K visas.
More than 1/3 of new jobs went to H1-Bs.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:13 AM (cbfNE)
247
227 Government is just another name for things we politicians do together to you, for your own good of course!
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM
~~
Bravo!!
Carly Fiorina (Undercard debate 8-6-2015):
"Conservatives...believe no one of us is any better than any other one of us...
Progressives don't believe that. They believe some are smarter than others, some are better than others, so some are going to need to take care of others."
Posted by: Hrothgar at August 15, 2015 10:57 AM
~~
Bravo!!
Carly Fiorina (Undercard debate 8-6-2015):
"Conservatives...believe no one of us is any better than any other one of us...
Progressives don't believe that. They believe some are smarter than others, some are better than others, so some are going to need to take care of others."
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:14 AM (vHlQ5)
248
/rant on
Unmonitored Legal immigration is one of the largest sources of ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Why should a company bother with an illegal , when they can just lie to the government and get as many little foreigners as they like?
Lies on application? = ILLEGAL
Overstayed your visa? = ILLEGAL
'LEGAL Immigration' also has a massive nexus with Human Trafficking and Sex Trafficking and forced labor.
In the weeds?
NO.
Wanna know my problen with Fiorina?
Here it is.
Unmonitored Legal immigration is one of the largest sources of ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Why should a company bother with an illegal , when they can just lie to the government and get as many little foreigners as they like?
Lies on application? = ILLEGAL
Overstayed your visa? = ILLEGAL
'LEGAL Immigration' also has a massive nexus with Human Trafficking and Sex Trafficking and forced labor.
In the weeds?
NO.
Wanna know my problen with Fiorina?
Here it is.
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:16 AM (HJqXj)
249
/rant off for realz
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:17 AM (HJqXj)
250
Here's an idea...create jobs for the eloi that already have pissed blood for those BAs, BSs, MAs, and PhDs.
Now, I'm not talking about school bus drivers or cross walk guards. You know, something like jobs in their degree field.
Moar Psych and Criminal Justice majors FTW!
Now, I'm not talking about school bus drivers or cross walk guards. You know, something like jobs in their degree field.
Moar Psych and Criminal Justice majors FTW!
Posted by: Arkindole at August 15, 2015 11:18 AM (xzuNf)
251
I see from the Daily Caller that TRump opposes Citizens United. Jeezus Christ. The idea is to shoot other people in the foot, Donald.
Posted by: rrpjr at August 15, 2015 11:18 AM (s/yC1)
252
"Officially 215K jobs were created in 2014 ( incl part time etc). " votermom
Citation, please--besides your tweet.
Citation, please--besides your tweet.
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:19 AM (vHlQ5)
253
All change-y and hope-y, yeah
A full scale Utopia
You-topey-eaaah.
A rhyme almost as strained as the puns, Muldoon.
* golf club *
A full scale Utopia
You-topey-eaaah.
A rhyme almost as strained as the puns, Muldoon.
* golf club *
Posted by: mindful webworker - just passing by at August 15, 2015 11:20 AM (f/ass)
254
Citation, please--besides your tweet.
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:19 AM (vHlQ5)
BLS
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Citation, please--besides your tweet.
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:19 AM (vHlQ5)
BLS
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:23 AM (cbfNE)
255
Dang it, I read that wrong, didn't I? That was this quarter.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:26 AM (cbfNE)
256
some random meathead
so the problem you cite is that the bloated government, despite its bloat, fails in enforcing immigration regs. (that's my understanding of your 'rants')
Despite established politicians (ie. John "I'll build the damn fence" McCain) waiving their hands at the problem you cite...You have a problem with Fiorina.
Please explain this 'problem' as that may shed light for me.
so the problem you cite is that the bloated government, despite its bloat, fails in enforcing immigration regs. (that's my understanding of your 'rants')
Despite established politicians (ie. John "I'll build the damn fence" McCain) waiving their hands at the problem you cite...You have a problem with Fiorina.
Please explain this 'problem' as that may shed light for me.
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:27 AM (vHlQ5)
257
255 Dang it, I read that wrong, didn't I? That was this quarter.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:26 AM
~~
I don't know. You tell me. I'm just here to educate myself. Anyone else is educated? That's icing on the cake.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:26 AM
~~
I don't know. You tell me. I'm just here to educate myself. Anyone else is educated? That's icing on the cake.
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:29 AM (vHlQ5)
258
Meh, I'll look later. This tablet keeps crashing.
I'm not here to educate anyone. That's Y-Not's sphere.
I'm not here to educate anyone. That's Y-Not's sphere.
Posted by: @votermom at August 15, 2015 11:31 AM (cbfNE)
259
254 BLS
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Posted by: @votermom
~~~ From the link:
"Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 215,000 in July"
That'd be the month, not the quarter, nor the annual figure. And, that's 2015 not 2014.
As I said earlier:Anyone else is educated? That's icing on the cake. --- That's ok, tho, it's lo-cal icing. Enjoy.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Posted by: @votermom
~~~ From the link:
"Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 215,000 in July"
That'd be the month, not the quarter, nor the annual figure. And, that's 2015 not 2014.
As I said earlier:Anyone else is educated? That's icing on the cake. --- That's ok, tho, it's lo-cal icing. Enjoy.
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:33 AM (vHlQ5)
260
Our unfunded liabilities are currently FIVE TIMES the GDP.
So, yeah. No sweat. Let's foot the bill for all those useless degrees in gender theory.
If that decrepit, devious bitch becomes president then this country deserves what it gets.
So, yeah. No sweat. Let's foot the bill for all those useless degrees in gender theory.
If that decrepit, devious bitch becomes president then this country deserves what it gets.
Posted by: RKae at August 15, 2015 11:39 AM (erO8I)
261
some random meathead
"If America has 20% unemployment , the employers ( Microsoft , HP, etc) CAN AND WILL get the cheaper foreign labor FIRST. "
You'd rather pay $1200 for your MS Office Suite, rather than $695?
Is THAT you point?
Or, you just have mad hatred of Carly?
"If America has 20% unemployment , the employers ( Microsoft , HP, etc) CAN AND WILL get the cheaper foreign labor FIRST. "
You'd rather pay $1200 for your MS Office Suite, rather than $695?
Is THAT you point?
Or, you just have mad hatred of Carly?
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:41 AM (vHlQ5)
262
261 "In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve. " attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville
Posted by: socalcon at August 15, 2015 11:45 AM (vHlQ5)
263
You'd rather pay $1200 for your MS Office Suite, rather than $695?
$725 maybe. It's a good discussion to have. How much would you pay extra for goods and services to have full employment in the US. I open the bidding at 20%.
$725 maybe. It's a good discussion to have. How much would you pay extra for goods and services to have full employment in the US. I open the bidding at 20%.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 15, 2015 11:45 AM (rwI+c)
264
I don't use Microsoft's spyware.
The point is 'ENFORCEMENT FIRST'.
If the consumer don't like it, then they will budget for something cheaper.
SO what you are saying is that because Carly decided to fire Americans and pay someone to lie and hire foreign nationals for her , that is acceptable as long as YOUR software is cheap?
Gotcha.
And McCain is/was a douche.
The point is 'ENFORCEMENT FIRST'.
If the consumer don't like it, then they will budget for something cheaper.
SO what you are saying is that because Carly decided to fire Americans and pay someone to lie and hire foreign nationals for her , that is acceptable as long as YOUR software is cheap?
Gotcha.
And McCain is/was a douche.
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:50 AM (HJqXj)
265
Given the choice between expensive Americans and cheap foreigners guess who the donor class will pick EVERYTIME?
Does this strengthen the American economy?
Cut off the supply of cheap labor and these 1% Obama donating douches will have to address the ' expensive American worker' problem. Assholes.
"Ooooh I'm doing what's best for my investors."
Yeah. By screwing over your country and your countrymen.
Does this strengthen the American economy?
Cut off the supply of cheap labor and these 1% Obama donating douches will have to address the ' expensive American worker' problem. Assholes.
"Ooooh I'm doing what's best for my investors."
Yeah. By screwing over your country and your countrymen.
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:55 AM (HJqXj)
266
If we're spending public money on education I'd prefer it to support a formal apprenticeship program. My plumber is a guy whose 35 year old business has trouble finding qualified young people to hire, despite very good earning potential and transferable skills that allow you to live anyplace in the country.
Posted by: MTF at August 15, 2015 12:03 PM (TxJGV)
267
i kicked him some bucks when he announced....but i'm done with him...it like the $10,000.00 degree idea....especially because that's what i'm spending a year approx for my each of my two in college....thank God one graduates next spring.....just in time for a 3rd one to start....and 2 yrs later a 4th 9 more years of college bills and i'm done! wooooooo hooooooo!!!
Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at August 15, 2015 12:06 PM (0O7c5)
268
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:50 AM (HJqXj)
--------------------------------------------------
You'd be an irresponsible fool not move your programming if it cost 5% of what it cost in the U.S. and delivered equal product.
--------------------------------------------------
You'd be an irresponsible fool not move your programming if it cost 5% of what it cost in the U.S. and delivered equal product.
Posted by: MTF at August 15, 2015 12:08 PM (TxJGV)
269
as for the cheap labor....i wonder how many American born degree holding techies....turned their noses up at entry level positions at entry level salaries.....
Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at August 15, 2015 12:09 PM (0O7c5)
270
Just got a call from the Republican National Committee (or sumpthin'). Second time in an hour.
How many times do I have to tell them they'll get no money until they punch back twice as hard? That they've squandered the good will of the voters?
How many times do I have to tell them they'll get no money until they punch back twice as hard? That they've squandered the good will of the voters?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 15, 2015 12:11 PM (jR7Wy)
271
.just in time for a 3rd one to start....and 2 yrs later a 4th 9 more years of college bills and i'm done! wooooooo hooooooo!!!
Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at August 15, 2015 12:06 PM (0O7c5)
---
Send 'em to Parris Island Polytechnic!
Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at August 15, 2015 12:06 PM (0O7c5)
---
Send 'em to Parris Island Polytechnic!
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at August 15, 2015 12:13 PM (jR7Wy)
272
265 Given the choice between expensive Americans and cheap foreigners guess who the donor class will pick EVERYTIME?
Does this strengthen the American economy?
Cut off the supply of cheap labor and these 1% Obama donating douches will have to address the ' expensive American worker' problem. Assholes.
"Ooooh I'm doing what's best for my investors."
Yeah. By screwing over your country and your countrymen.
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:55 AM (HJqXj)
They no longer consider themselves Americans. They are "citizens of the world". It isn't only Leftists who think that way. It's corporate CEOs as well. They believe that national borders are a holdover from the past.
We are truly living in a post-American world now.
Does this strengthen the American economy?
Cut off the supply of cheap labor and these 1% Obama donating douches will have to address the ' expensive American worker' problem. Assholes.
"Ooooh I'm doing what's best for my investors."
Yeah. By screwing over your country and your countrymen.
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 11:55 AM (HJqXj)
They no longer consider themselves Americans. They are "citizens of the world". It isn't only Leftists who think that way. It's corporate CEOs as well. They believe that national borders are a holdover from the past.
We are truly living in a post-American world now.
Posted by: rickl at August 15, 2015 12:14 PM (sdi6R)
273
Lots of ranting about H1Bs.
Here's two cents for the other side. I just finished 14 years working as an SAP consultant...worked for four different companies over the 14 years. We had lots of Indians working in the field. They were very good at what we did - coding, writing Functional and Design Specifications, High Level Designs, etc. I did the hiring and firing in my area - Engineering. We had very few 'native born' Americans even apply for those jobs. The ones that applied and were qualified, we hired on the spot. Why didn't more Americans apply? First, SAP is a technology field, so Music Appreciations majors need not apply. (And by the way, SAP courses are offered at most major universities, so the training is available - even Sam Houston State offers the courses.)
Second, and the kicker IMHO, you can't do this job and live in Mommy's house. You have to travel; that's the nature of the beast in consulting. Most consulting projects last between 3 months and 1 year. That's too hard for many people. At least that's what they would have you believe.
The compensation packages are very, very good in consulting. If you have the technical background and if you can write a logical, coherent sentence.
I walked away from a very nice salary over a year ago when I retired for good.
Have a child in college? Encourage them to check out the SAP courses. There is no shortage of work.
Here's two cents for the other side. I just finished 14 years working as an SAP consultant...worked for four different companies over the 14 years. We had lots of Indians working in the field. They were very good at what we did - coding, writing Functional and Design Specifications, High Level Designs, etc. I did the hiring and firing in my area - Engineering. We had very few 'native born' Americans even apply for those jobs. The ones that applied and were qualified, we hired on the spot. Why didn't more Americans apply? First, SAP is a technology field, so Music Appreciations majors need not apply. (And by the way, SAP courses are offered at most major universities, so the training is available - even Sam Houston State offers the courses.)
Second, and the kicker IMHO, you can't do this job and live in Mommy's house. You have to travel; that's the nature of the beast in consulting. Most consulting projects last between 3 months and 1 year. That's too hard for many people. At least that's what they would have you believe.
The compensation packages are very, very good in consulting. If you have the technical background and if you can write a logical, coherent sentence.
I walked away from a very nice salary over a year ago when I retired for good.
Have a child in college? Encourage them to check out the SAP courses. There is no shortage of work.
Posted by: Sixkiller at August 15, 2015 12:35 PM (hRytD)
274
You'd be an irresponsible fool not move your programming if it cost 5% of what it cost in the U.S. and delivered equal product.
This is the thing. While I don't like companies outsourcing and so on... I do sympathise. Consumers will not pay beyond a certain point for products and services, no matter what. American greed, sloth, regulations and union interference has basically made it nearly impossible for manufacturing to survive here except for some very specific sorts of things.
What's a company supposed to do when labor and costs exceed their maximum they can charge for a product? Nobody will pay 150 bucks for a burger no matter how tasty it is, or how hungry they are. They'll just take it and kill you if they have to.
You'd be an irresponsible fool not move your programming if it cost 5% of what it cost in the U.S. and delivered equal product.
This is the thing. While I don't like companies outsourcing and so on... I do sympathise. Consumers will not pay beyond a certain point for products and services, no matter what. American greed, sloth, regulations and union interference has basically made it nearly impossible for manufacturing to survive here except for some very specific sorts of things.
What's a company supposed to do when labor and costs exceed their maximum they can charge for a product? Nobody will pay 150 bucks for a burger no matter how tasty it is, or how hungry they are. They'll just take it and kill you if they have to.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 15, 2015 12:58 PM (39g3+)
275
We had very few 'native born' Americans even apply for those jobs.
I call bullshit.
HR can discourage Americans very easily or pay intermediaries to discriminate for them.
Nobody will pay 150 bucks for a burger
Well then, the market will just have figure it out without mainlining that sweet , speedball of cheap labor.
You'd be an irresponsible fool not move your programming if it cost 5% of what it cost in the U.S. and delivered equal product.
You'd be an irresponsible fool not to vote for Hillary and her free college fund if you have college age kids.
Morality and patriotism has to matter somewhere.
I call bullshit.
HR can discourage Americans very easily or pay intermediaries to discriminate for them.
Nobody will pay 150 bucks for a burger
Well then, the market will just have figure it out without mainlining that sweet , speedball of cheap labor.
You'd be an irresponsible fool not move your programming if it cost 5% of what it cost in the U.S. and delivered equal product.
You'd be an irresponsible fool not to vote for Hillary and her free college fund if you have college age kids.
Morality and patriotism has to matter somewhere.
Posted by: some random meathead at August 15, 2015 02:14 PM (HJqXj)
276
Good job Perry on the 10k - too bad he wants illegals to be able to cash in on TX college as well. No $ for you, Rick.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 15, 2015 02:26 PM (AkAYO)
277
"You're a lifelong conservative, with three kids ready to go into college in the next few years."
At least 2 of those kids aren't likely to need college. Given those choices, I'd vote Cruz, send 2 of 3 kids to vocational school or OJT, pay on my own for a small college degree for the bookish kid - and not further bankrupt my country.
At least 2 of those kids aren't likely to need college. Given those choices, I'd vote Cruz, send 2 of 3 kids to vocational school or OJT, pay on my own for a small college degree for the bookish kid - and not further bankrupt my country.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 15, 2015 02:30 PM (AkAYO)
278
No, don't come to Texas, just keep right and head south through AZ...Free stuff in Mexico!!
Posted by: Rob in Katy at August 15, 2015 05:03 PM (eYTQP)
Posted by: bruce at August 15, 2015 08:21 PM (CDJHJ)
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