Fundamental Concepts - Seven deadly sins? I only need two to run the world.[Weirddave]

The so- called “cardinal sins”, more colloquially know as the Seven Deadly Sins, have been used in a Christian setting as a cautionary tale for millenia now. These sins are Anger, Denial, Bargaining Depression and Acceptance. No wait, those are the stages of death from All That Jazz. The sins are Sh**, Piss, F***, See You Next Tuesday, Co******er, Mf-er and Tits. No, my mistake, those are the seven words you can't say on TV. I've got it: Umoja, Kujichagulia,Ujima, Ujamaa, Nia, Kuumba and Imani. Darn it, those are the principles of Kwanza. Hmm. Faith, Prayer, Charity, Fasting and Pilgrimage? Nope, those would be the Pillars of Islam. Dag nab it, I've got look these up. Sins....sins...of commission...of omission....of the fathers....ah! Here we are: seven deadly. Greed, Envy, Lust, Gluttony, Sloth, Wrath and Pride. Gosh, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with those.

Take a look around at the major political philosophies in the west. Ever notice that all of them are based around one of two deadly sins? No wonder everything is so messed up, all of our political philosophies are based upon sins! Of course, according to Christian faith the whole world is steeped in sin, so this really doesn't come as any surprise. Which sins are we talking about? Well, in this corner, wearing green trunks, weighing in at a weaselly 98 lbs is the original green-eyed monster himself....

ENVY

Envy is the driving force behind most political systems today. Any variant of Marxism is driven by envy, whether it be Communism, Socialism, or any other Marxist ism. Fascism is driven by envy. Democracy is driven, more subtlety, by envy. It is easy to detect an envy driven system because it is obsessed with making things “fair”. If only we could own the means of production/set the allocation of resources/control the distribution of goods/redistribute the wealth/whatever, why, then the world would be “fair”. The whole reason that the system is “unfair” in the first place is because someone has more than you've got, or different than yours or better, and by God that shall not stand! That's envy talking.

It's nonsense, of course, and deeply ironic because envy based systems always devolve into what they claim to be fighting against, oligarchy. An oligarchy is representative of our second deadly sin, currently standing over in the other corner, wearing a top hat and tails, twirling a Snidely Whiplash mustache and weighing in at a corpulent 350 lbs, Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Wolf of Wall Street....

GREED

Yes those greedy oligarchs, living off of the sweat of the working man's brow, exploiting and corrupting everything that they touch for their own gain. Any monarchy is run for the benefit of the few at the top at the expense of many below, as are all totalitarian regimes. This is the oldest form of government, one that's been prevalent among humans since they lived in extended family tribes, and it still exists today. It's as basic a form of human organization as there is, and groups of humans are always going to come back to it because humans are greedy.

It's a vicious cycle. The greed of the ruling class in an oligarchy leads to the creation of an envy based counter movement, if that movement is ever successful, it breaks down into another oligarchy before too long and the cycle continues (I know that this sound damn near Marxist (Hegelian, to be exact) thesis, antithesis resulting in synthesis-hey, look, it's the dialectic!). There's no way out of this cycle, it's the way things have always been, and the way things always will be. Period. Nope, that's how humans works, and it will ever be so.

Unless.......

Suppose we could replace the vicious cycle with a virtuous cycle? Well, then we might have something. A system that is self perpetuating but one that yields generally positive results instead of consistently negative ones. In fact, there is just such a system, and it works because it subverts both envy and greed and replaces them with their Doppelgängers. The Doppelgänger of envy is opportunity and the Doppelgänger of greed is self interest. In fact, just such a system has been devised, although it is in decline at the moment, and that system is free market capitalism.

If envy and greed are the two main animating principles of human political organization, then obviously they fill some need in the human psyche. The problem is that since they are negative emotions (deadly sins!), any system based upon them is going to have negative results. Any system that seeks to replace the old one is still going to have to fill those needs with people. The free market does so by promoting substitutes that are beneficial rather than derogatory. Think of it as a non-opiate drug used to calm the cravings of an opiate addict: The drug matches the receptors in the addict's brain that are screaming for morphine, without morphine's negative effects. The basic facts of the world don't change in a free market system. There still exists a dichotomy of materials/results/goods/whatever between individuals in a free market system, but instead of fostering envy, in a free market system that presents an opportunity and fosters ambition “Like that guy's Porsche? Work hard and you can have one too”. Greed is present as always in humans, but the system is set up so that the only way to feed the greed and enrich oneself is by providing good and services that benefit everybody else. The same psychological imperatives are being met. As long as you have a government content to sit on the sidelines and serve as referee to ensure a level playing field while also defending the pitch from intruders, the whole thing works brilliantly, and the entire society as a whole is richer, happier and more secure.

So what happened? Well, a free market system is a more complex machine. It's higher maintenance. It requires investments of time and effort to educate and maintain. It requires a culture with certain base values. If these things aren't present, or aren't jealously guarded by society as a whole, entropy sets in. The whole thing rests on the fulcrum of virtue. As these things decay over time, either through disuse, carelessness or active subversion, envy and greed push their way back to the fore. They are simpler concepts, lower common denominators. They will always prevail absent a constant and dedicated effort to keep them at bay, and so here we are. The engine of our prosperity is missing on 3 cylinders, smoking badly and the pistons are knocking loudly. We haven't been changing the oil or making sure to use quality gas. The radiator is bone dry. The whole damn thing is about to seize up and leave us stranded in the desert........unless we start doing some maintenance, fast.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 10:34 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Vanity.

Posted by: GOPe Loves Jeb at May 30, 2015 10:35 AM (uGrec)

2 Lust, Sloth, Gluttony.

Posted by: Kaboom-a-Palooza at May 30, 2015 10:39 AM (jR7Wy)

3 Good luck with that.
Sins like that are what got the Clinton's to where they're at now and always using O.P.M.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 30, 2015 10:39 AM (4CRfK)

4 Sloth. Almost everyone is lazy, and will always seek the lazy solution. That is why statism fails. Sloth trumps envy as a motivator.

Now where'd I put my EBT card?

Posted by: wooga at May 30, 2015 10:39 AM (RqOd7)

5 I have to disagree. Vanity is essential. Hayek, Sowell, and Bastiat have consistently pointed out that the pretense of knowledge requires an arrogant belief in one's own anointedness. As Madison said, government must have limits because none of us are angelic enough to rule other men.

Posted by: JohnJ at May 30, 2015 10:39 AM (TF/YA)

6 Id go with lust.

Libs will put up with any infringement upon freedom as long as you let them bone without that icky guilt thing.

Posted by: Lauren at May 30, 2015 10:39 AM (DLBJh)

7 As long as government takes your wages, you are simply a servant to them.

Over 50% of my income goes to the government.

I am only half a slave. I work for the government half of EVERYDAY.

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 30, 2015 10:43 AM (0FSuD)

8 Hell, I'm a fan of all 7. But right now I'd have to go with Wrath

Posted by: Captain Malcolm Reynolds at May 30, 2015 10:44 AM (zt+N6)

9 That is an awesome first paragraph, Weirddave. LOL.

Now back to read the rest.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 10:44 AM (sdi6R)

10 Let's talk about the meaning of the word "Sloth" in this context.

In modern wording, this would be the sin of laziness.

Now Tie the sin of laziness with the sin of envy, develop a system of governance which embraces those two sins, and the individuals which commit them, and one could rule the world.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 10:45 AM (VPLuQ)

11 Dickery......?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2015 10:46 AM (RoiEH)

12 Envy seems to be what those on the right say is the driving force of the left, and greed is what the left says is the driving force on the right.

Are either of them correct?

If you derive your political power from accusing the other side of one or the other, I guess you've hit on something real enough, but both are an illusion, to a large extent.

Or to put it another way: the sins are not the emotions that drive one to seek power/control over others, or amass wealth. The sins are in the doing.

So I suppose this is more of a religious/philosophical argument than a political one.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2015 10:47 AM (Dj0WE)

13 They are called "mortal sins."

This is great....a cartoon version of Catholic doctrine.

Posted by: JCM332 at May 30, 2015 10:47 AM (awzPV)

14 Politics in the US is driven by two things; shit and safety; call good old SnS.

The FSA wants free shit. These are the looters described by Ayn Rand and Hayek. Others in the country are driven by the desire that everybody earn their own shit and that they get to keep the shit that they have earned. They ARE willing to part with some of their shit for the next item.

Safety: This is one of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You can't have anything if you don't have safety. This includes your own life, your possessions, and a host of other things. The FSA will NOT give up their free shit for these things. People who earn their shit by working for it are willing to give up some of their shit for safety. The debate ranges around how much. They are not willing to give up their shit to the FSA.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2015 10:49 AM (GpgJl)

15 Capitalism=Freedom.

Tell a friend.

Posted by: MTF at May 30, 2015 10:50 AM (DkJ4E)

16 I absolutely agree that these cardinal sins can be tweaked and transformed into virtues, if applied correctly. Anger, lust, vanity, envy, and avarice can be great motivators for achievement.

But of course there's a lot of achievement shaming going on these days. When I praised the moon landings in a conversation some time back, my friend said it was time for us to step aside and let others have a crack at space, because fair (then gave that annoying smug shrug/head tilt that makes me want to use my new smatchet -- oops, anger!). We've had our turn, and there are only so many turns to go around, you see.

Posted by: Kaboom-a-Palooza at May 30, 2015 10:51 AM (jR7Wy)

17 "my friend said it was time for us to step aside and let others have a crack at space, "

Did this individual offer an example of how the United States was actively preventing other nations and organizations from achieving space flight?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 10:53 AM (VPLuQ)

18 My main problem with liberals is that they don't understand human nature. As a Christian, I know that man is fallen and therefore no man-made system will perfect him. Utopia will never happen as long as man is in charge. Which is why we need a Savior. (Sorry if that was too theological, but my faith is the bedrock for my worldview.)

Posted by: pookysgirl can almost walk at May 30, 2015 10:53 AM (zTnOj)

19 Off, Clownsplosion sock!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at May 30, 2015 10:53 AM (jR7Wy)

20 10
Let's talk about the meaning of the word "Sloth" in this context.

Cliff's note.

Sloth=EBT Card.

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 30, 2015 10:53 AM (0FSuD)

21 Did this individual offer an example of how the United States was
actively preventing other nations and organizations from achieving space
flight?

Well space is small, you know. There might not be room for other nations if we're there.

Posted by: Weirddave at May 30, 2015 10:55 AM (WvS3w)

22 Did this individual offer an example of how the United States was actively preventing other nations and organizations from achieving space flight?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 10:53 AM (VPLuQ)
---
No. Presumably we were making other countries feel bad about themselves though. Peruvia was **thisclose** to leaving its flag, some spent bottles of Valu-Rite, and a pack o' smokes on La Luna.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at May 30, 2015 10:55 AM (jR7Wy)

23 "Sloth=EBT Card."

A perfect example of how harnessing the sin of Slothfulness allows a political structure to solidify it's grip on a segment of the population.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 10:56 AM (VPLuQ)

24 16
When I praised the moon landings in a conversation some time back, my friend said it was time for us to step aside and let others have a crack at space, because fair

Posted by: Kaboom-a-Palooza at May 30, 2015 10:51 AM (jR7Wy)

That is nuts. Space is big. Really effin' big. There is plenty of room for everybody.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 10:56 AM (sdi6R)

25 Capitalism is a sort of compromise between economic health and virtue. Unlike all other economic systems, it does not try to change human nature, it tries to shape human nature into a constructive system. Communism and its variants tries to deny basic facts of human sinful nature and ignore or change them so that everyone is somehow altruistic and giving.

Capitalism recognizes that people are filled with greed, envy, sloth, and all other sorts of malice, and creates an environment that rewards these with tangible benefits for the most people in the greatest way with the fewest drawbacks for all involved.

For the leftist, capitalism is evil because if you do not participate, you do not benefit. You're "left behind" you "fall through the cracks." But in capitalism that's not a flaw, its a feature. That's what encourages people to participate: you lose out if you do not.

If people in a capitalist system, for a variety of reasons, choose to use their riches to help others, so be it. That's separate from the economic engine, for the most part. That's up to each individual person. But communism and its variants demands everyone help out at the point of a gun.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 10:57 AM (39g3+)

26 "Peruvia was **thisclose** to leaving its flag, some spent bottles of Valu-Rite, and a pack o' smokes on La Luna."

Sounds like Peruvia and AoSHQ share some defining characteristics.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 10:57 AM (VPLuQ)

27 "Well space is small, you know. There might not be room for other nations if we're there."

Oh........never mind.
My bad.

/S

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 10:58 AM (VPLuQ)

28 21
Well space is small, you know. There might not be room for other nations if we're there.

Posted by: Weirddave at May 30, 2015 10:55 AM (WvS3w)

There we were, taking up all the space. Manspreading, even.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 11:00 AM (sdi6R)

29 When I praised the moon landings in a conversation some time back, my
friend said it was time for us to step aside and let others have a crack
at space, because fair>>>

I agree with your friend and propose the RTF channel as a funding mechanism to make this fairness happen.

RTF=Rockets That Fail

Posted by: Robinson at May 30, 2015 11:01 AM (+exqw)

30 Sloths don't get no respect. I propose we change our name to Slowbear. Yeah, slowbear.

Posted by: Three-Toed Slowbear at May 30, 2015 11:02 AM (9zQve)

31 Just to go off topic for a moment.

Looks like a mature, and safe fracking process may have some national security impact in the near future.

http://tinyurl.com/pov8bsv

Now, back to the original topic, as what Dave brings forth is worth the brain cells to take time and discuss.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:02 AM (VPLuQ)

32 What's in the box!?!?

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 30, 2015 11:02 AM (VAsIq)

33 That is nuts. Space is big. Really effin' big. There is plenty of room for everybody.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 10:56 AM (sdi6R)

Space? Man it's a big effing deal!

Posted by: Hair Plugs Joe Biden at May 30, 2015 11:03 AM (0FSuD)

34 Hillary recently gave a speech in which she said:

"too many women still earn less than men on the job. And women of color often make even less."

She also invoked "the motherhood penalty," referring to women who take a pay cut when they have children.

Now, she's trying to present this as an "equal pay" issue, to hook women. When it comes to pregnancy, a lot of women lose their heads and start thinking emotionally and that's easy for a leftist to exploit.

But there is no "motherhood penalty." That is a vicious and destructive lie. If you do not work, you do not produce for the company, and hence you should not be paid. Companies exist for the same reason you go to work: to get paid. You don't go to work for the boss' benefit or to be nice, or to help out the owner. You go to work to get paid. That's the same reason the owner goes to work, why he started the company to begin with.

Women getting paid while not at work is a benefit and benefits are part of a pay package. If men do not get that and women do... then the woman is being paid MORE than the man is. So forcing companies to pay all women while not working is not a matter of equal pay. It is a matter of superior pay, of benefiting one over the other. If Hillary wants equal pay, she should be against this, not for it.

But she doesn't give a crap about equal pay (even as she defines it), or she'd be paying all her employees exactly the same no matter how much they work or who they are.

She's interested in grabbing women voters, by any lie and emotional manipulation necessary. And I am confident it will work.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:03 AM (39g3+)

35 2 Lust, Sloth, Gluttony.
---------------

Lust, Sloth, Glottony and Lust.

*you said lust twce*

I like lust.

Posted by: Roy at May 30, 2015 11:03 AM (fWLrt)

36 Sloths don't get no respect. I propose we change our name to Slowbear. Yeah, slowbear.

Posted by: Three-Toed Slowbear

That's my Secret Service codename!

Posted by: Joe Biden at May 30, 2015 11:04 AM (VAsIq)

37 "But she doesn't give a crap about equal pay (even as she defines it), or she'd be paying all her employees exactly the same no matter how much they work or who they are. "

She should immediately fire all her male employees, and replace them with women.

Immediate 30% reduction in payroll costs.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:05 AM (VPLuQ)

38 In Patrick O'Brien I learned that sloths are very lucky to have around on your long sea voyages.

Posted by: MTF at May 30, 2015 11:05 AM (DkJ4E)

39 Ooh! Paste!

Posted by: Joe Biden at May 30, 2015 11:06 AM (VAsIq)

40 O/T

So I just got my Amazon Echo. What a waste of money. I did get it for half price, $99. Can't figure out WTF it is suppose to do. OK, it an alarm. The speakers are nice, not Bose quality, but nice. It is attractive, but what does one do with it? Ask for music? Stupid.

Going back next week.

http://tinyurl.com/qetxbxm

Posted by: Hair Plugs Joe Biden at May 30, 2015 11:06 AM (0FSuD)

41 In Patrick O'Brien I learned that sloths are very lucky to have around on your long sea voyages.

Unless you debauch them.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:06 AM (39g3+)

42 Unless you debauch them.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor

No, no, that's the whole POINT of the sloth.

Posted by: the chicken at May 30, 2015 11:07 AM (VAsIq)

43 Capitalism recognizes that people are filled with greed, envy, sloth, and all other sorts of malice, and creates an environment that rewards these with tangible benefits for the most people in the greatest way with the fewest drawbacks for all involved.

For the leftist, capitalism is evil because if you do not participate, you do not benefit. You're "left behind" you "fall through the cracks." But in capitalism that's not a flaw, its a feature. That's what encourages people to participate: you lose out if you do not.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 10:57 AM (39g3+)
---
*/\*/\*/\*/\* uptwinkles!
This is a great summation of capitalism. I wish more understood that its the most humane system for personal betterment out there.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at May 30, 2015 11:08 AM (jR7Wy)

44 "In Patrick O'Brien I learned that sloths are very lucky to have around on your long sea voyages. "

You know what else British sailing ships had a lot of?

Handbabies.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:08 AM (VPLuQ)

45 If you see Kay,
Tell him he may.
See you in tea,
Tell him from me.

Posted by: James Joyce at May 30, 2015 11:09 AM (VAsIq)

46 Lust, Sloth, Gluttony>>>

Watching Giada De Laurentiis while eating ice cream?

Posted by: Robinson at May 30, 2015 11:09 AM (+exqw)

47 Hillary's ability to attract voters is in part a function of partisan loyalty and in part a fear of what Republicans might do to abortion rights. I can't think of any part of her attraction based solely on her own accomplishments (zero), charisma (zero), or positions (since, to her, principal is defined as necessary pandering). She's in it for the money.

Posted by: MTF at May 30, 2015 11:09 AM (DkJ4E)

48 So you only owe two sevenths of the royalty?

Posted by: DM at May 30, 2015 11:10 AM (j/tOh)

49 "Can't figure out WTF it is suppose to do. "

After reading your Wiki link, I think I know what it does.

And the first thing I would do with it is smash it with a baseball bat.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:11 AM (VPLuQ)

50 The engine of our prosperity is missing on 3 cylinders, smoking badly and the pistons are knocking badly.

Pissing in the gas tank isn't helping.

Posted by: t-bird at May 30, 2015 11:12 AM (FcR7P)

51 Posted by: the chicken at May 30, 2015 11:07 AM (VAsIq)
========================

Sailors think rum is the highest good and, loving their sloth, might give it a little rum from time to time. Because that can't be anything other than a loving thing to do, right?

Posted by: MTF at May 30, 2015 11:12 AM (DkJ4E)

52 Sloth

* ponders *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 30, 2015 11:13 AM (n6Nt0)

53 There is no possible way a Republican congress and president would make any significant changes to abortion law. Its depressing but true: even if they had enough guys to actually care, it wouldn't happen out of fear by the leadership that it would hurt their chances of being reelected.

Republicans in congress have only one abiding fixation: there will be another election soon. That guides and shapes every single thing they do and vote on. That's all they focus on.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:13 AM (39g3+)

54 What's in the box??

Posted by: Brad Pitt at May 30, 2015 11:14 AM (TF10X)

55 Well, a free market system is a more complex machine. It's higher maintenance. It requires investments of time and effort to educate and maintain.

That's the fundamental mistake leftists make. They think that conservatism is stasis, and is the natural order of the world, and heroic effort is required to bring about change. In fact, change is the natural, powerful tide that runs the world. Conservatism is what requires hard work.

Look what happens when you buy a brand new house, if you just do nothing. Change begins almost immediately, as the paint wears off, shingles blow away, wood rots and bricks start to crumble. Lay a layer of fresh sod, and think how quickly it changes to a patch of weeds; the only thing that keeps it looking the same week after week is you going out there with a lawn mower and "setting back the clock".

It's not necessary to exhort people to cause change; it'll happen all on its own. But leftists are enchanted by the image of conservatives as insensible, immobile Buddhas who have to be shoved, pried and kicked out of the way to let fresh new ideas spring to life and flower. All they're doing is dynamiting the dykes that took centuries to build and keep intact, thinking that they're there to block the sun instead of hold back the sea.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at May 30, 2015 11:14 AM (VBbCO)

56 Sailors think rum is the highest good and, loving their sloth, might give it a little rum from time to time. Because that can't be anything other than a loving thing to do, right?

Posted by: MTF

Getting blackout drunk certainly helps me....

Posted by: the chicken at May 30, 2015 11:14 AM (VAsIq)

57 25
For the leftist, capitalism is evil because if you do not participate, you do not benefit. You're "left behind" you "fall through the cracks." But in capitalism that's not a flaw, its a feature. That's what encourages people to participate: you lose out if you do not.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 10:57 AM (39g3+)

It's ironic that so many people who profess to believe in evolution disparage capitalism. Capitalism is evolution applied to human society. A true free market is not governed or organized from the top down; rather it operates with every choice and decision made by every person. By contrast, socialism is stasis. In nature, stasis is doomed to failure.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 11:15 AM (sdi6R)

58 communism, socialism, etc. demand sacrifice without expectation of any reward.

"To each according to his needs, from each according to their abilities"

What could be more fair? (gag)

"Give 'till it hurts". You sometimes see some Christians mouthing that false piety.

Jesus said, "Give up all you have and follow me". There is a very powerful and real metaphysical reward to "giving up all". Jesus knew a man could not serve two masters, and it was harder for a rich man to get into heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Yet with God, "all things are possible".

Working hard and obtaining material wealth is not evil in itself, but placing that kind of aquisitiveness above all other things is. Pursuit of money above all things is evil. You could also say "pursuit of all earthly goods above all things is evil", which is also at the heart of socialism and communism. They are very materialistic creeds. To them, materialism is everything.

There is a metaphysical reward to free market capitalism and making wealth, and that is the reward of achievement and doing your best, the reward of doing something that is personally satisfying - which can also come to also be seen as overweening pride, too.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at May 30, 2015 11:16 AM (RFeQD)

59 What's in the box??

Posted by: Brad Pitt at May 30, 2015 11:14 AM (TF10X)

Heh.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 30, 2015 11:16 AM (fQAkR)

60 Man, you know who's hot? That manatee over there. I like 'em thick.

Posted by: Olde Time Sailors at May 30, 2015 11:17 AM (VAsIq)

61 Its depressing but true: even if they had enough guys to actually care, it wouldn't happen out of fear by the leadership that it would hurt their chances of being reelected.

I have to disagree- it doesn't seem to be stopping Republicans at the state level.

Posted by: The Lost Dutchman at May 30, 2015 11:17 AM (Na4RS)

62 Was just listening to Doc Watson sing an old Gospel Tune- "The Faithful Soldier"

"Whene'er you meet with trials and troubles on your way
Then cast your cares on Jesus and don't forget to pray
Gird on the gospel armor of hope and faith and love.
And when this combat's ended he'll take you home above. "

Maybe instead of trying to turn sins into virtues we could use some virtues to counteract the notions of sin.

Faith, hope, love, charity, courage, honesty, steadfastness.

There's seven right off the bat...

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at May 30, 2015 11:17 AM (NeFrd)

63 The government must support private property rights for free trade to work. So there is a role for government in there somewhere.

Posted by: KT bar the door at May 30, 2015 11:18 AM (qahv/)

64 There we were, taking up all the space. Manspreading, even.
Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 11:00 AM (sdi6R)
---
LOL. "Manspreading on Moonbase Alpha" needs to be written/composed by somebody at the HQ.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at May 30, 2015 11:18 AM (jR7Wy)

65 >>My main problem with liberals is that they don't understand human
nature. As a Christian, I know that man is fallen and therefore no
man-made system will perfect him.

BINGO!!

The Left is unrelenting in their attempts to institute things that defy human nature, all while telling *us* that we are anti-science, skygod-worshipping rubes.

Yeah, because worshiping one's own (delusions of) intelligence and one's own ability to defy thousands of years of civilization's best practices is wicked smaht.

Guess this means I'd pick Pride and Greed.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2015 11:19 AM (q6kiT)

66 Breaking: O'Malley has made his "official" announcement.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2015 11:19 AM (GpgJl)

Posted by: irongrampa at May 30, 2015 11:19 AM (jeCnD)

68 off hair plugs sock

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 30, 2015 11:20 AM (0FSuD)

69 Faith, hope, love, charity, courage, honesty, steadfastness.

There's seven right off the bat...

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man

But love is the greatest of these things.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at May 30, 2015 11:20 AM (RFeQD)

70 This sloth is what's keeping me on the couch.

He thinks he's a lap dog, the silly boy.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at May 30, 2015 11:20 AM (NeFrd)

71 Sure, the role of government in the economy is to safeguard rights. They are there to defend the basic rights of mankind, to punish the wicked and uphold the righteous, so to speak.

But that role is very limited in its scope, and shouldn't be proactive. Government shouldn't step in in case you do something bad. It should stop it when it happens.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:21 AM (39g3+)

72 And the first thing I would do with it is smash it with a baseball bat.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:11 AM (VPLuQ)

LOL! Can't get my money back then. So when you ask for news, guess where it sends you?

NPR.

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 30, 2015 11:22 AM (0FSuD)

73 All this talk about capitalism is all well and good, but the US have NEVER been a complete capitalist nation. Not even the colonies when England left them alone was capitalist.

Currently I would estimate that we are about 50% socialist, 40% fascist, and 10% capitalist at best. And that 10% is made up of a healthy percentage of black market under the table transactions.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2015 11:23 AM (GpgJl)

74 >>Breaking: O'Malley has made his "official" announcement.

Drudge posting a new batch of shirtless O'Malley shots? /puke

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2015 11:23 AM (q6kiT)

75 I've always liked the Austin Lounge Lizards' alternative list, from the title cut of The Highway Cafe of the Damned: "Sloth and Avarice, Fornication, Television, Whiskey, Beer, and Wine".

Posted by: Dr Weevil at May 30, 2015 11:24 AM (FDg5d)

76
Now let's see if THIS will actually post.

It looks to me that one could define this fundamental concept post by using something from Ayn Rand.

That being rational self interest. Caveat is it must be practiced legally, morally, and ethically.

Do I get derided now, or is that worthy of discussion?

Posted by: irongrampa at May 30, 2015 11:24 AM (jeCnD)

77 Sloth

http://tinyurl.com/psph4k7

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:25 AM (VPLuQ)

78 75
I've always liked the Austin Lounge Lizards' alternative list, from the
title cut of The Highway Cafe of the Damned: "Sloth and Avarice,
Fornication, Television, Whiskey, Beer, and Wine".

Posted by: Dr Weevil at May 30, 2015 11:24 AM (FDg5d)

I have that album.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2015 11:25 AM (GpgJl)

79 Paul McCartney giving up pot is newsworthy? How fcuking superficial can we get?

Posted by: hadoop at May 30, 2015 11:25 AM (2X7pN)

80 Home sweet home

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 30, 2015 11:25 AM (0O7c5)

81 Sloth.

Thats a form of a really big weasel... right?

Posted by: fixerupper at May 30, 2015 11:27 AM (JmjOe)

82 "LOL! Can't get my money back then. So when you ask for news, guess where it sends you?

NPR. "

Not a bug.
A feature.

And mow your yard.

Posted by: Bob, from the NSA at May 30, 2015 11:27 AM (VPLuQ)

83 That being rational self interest. Caveat is it must be practiced legally, morally, and ethically.

****

That caveat is all-important, irongrampa. Last week in Y-Not's "What qualities do you think of as American" thread I said basically the same thing- freedom, tempered by responsibility.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at May 30, 2015 11:27 AM (NeFrd)

84 The problem with the left in their understanding of economic systems is that they think they are so smart, so enlightened and so right that they're one step away from perfecting a utopia of humanity. They think that the right system - based on what they are absolutely sure is true - will fix people.

Capitalism recognizes that people cannot be fixed from the outside, only directed and shaped. By trying to avoid failing and ultimately worthless attempts to remake humanity, capitalism does the best we can with fallen sinful humans. This is a compromise; a recognition that people are bad, but uses market pressure to encourage them to be good.

Meanwhile socially we can work toward better people through teaching virtues to children, discouraging vices, and spreading faith. But that's a separate issue from economics. The left thinks there is only one issue: politics. But there are many different ones that should be approached separately.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:28 AM (39g3+)

85 Love as in loving someone is a chimera.

It is a self induced hallucination that if you're lucky is a shared fixation on each other. It can be maintained but the conditions have to just right and some can't maintain it or their fate/karma/destiny destroys it.

You can Love other things but there's usual little feedback so it is really an obsession. Again a self induced hallucination that the ego and the species finds useful.

Until it's not.

Better to create conditions for mutual self interest to thrive and selfish thievery to be penalized.

We've entered a period where thievery has become publicly acceptable and accepted by the mass.

Thus our country which was founded on laws and men/women behaving with integrity and morals has foundered.

It started when an obvious liar and sexual deviant was allowed to escape punishment and was applauded and praised for his deceptions. His enabler was raised up as a paragon and repeatedly has shown feet of clay.

And now they're back for a second round (no wait, a third round) with their charming offspring waiting in the wings.

I keep waiting for us to hit bottom but there's none in sight so far.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at May 30, 2015 11:30 AM (zRby/)

86 It seems that we ought to give some thought to the Seven Virtues. They are rather out of style, but merely avoiding the sins doesn't make for the life-well-lived. After all, Hillary's supporters constantly chant that "She hasn't been idicted!", and thus is sinless.

I watched Saving Private Ryan again last week. I am always moved at the closing when James Ryan asks his wife, "Have I been a good man"? There is obviously something significant in his asking that, in the sense that he doesn't know. He can't know..., none of us can. He only knows that he has tried, or thinks that he has tried.

It is a relentless, and sometimes thankless task to be a good person, and it is distinctive relative to "not being a bad person".

Anyhow:
Prudence, justice, temperance (meaning restriction or restraint), courage (or fortitude), faith, hope, and charity.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 30, 2015 11:31 AM (n6Nt0)

87 Greed is good!

Posted by: Gordon Gekko at May 30, 2015 11:32 AM (JO9+V)

88 Right now I'm too slothful to post witty comments. Hell, I barely have enough energy to get a cold beer out of the fridge.

Posted by: fairweatherbill bucking the wind at May 30, 2015 11:33 AM (xrURQ)

89 From the movie Serenity

The Operative: I'm sorry. If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to. You should have taken my offer. Or did you think none of this was your fault?
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I don't murder children.
The Operative: I do. If I have to.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Why? Do you even know why they sent you?
The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?
The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

For a liberal, Josh had some fantastic writing skills.

And of course, we all understand the part about Reevers, and the effort to improve the human race.

Posted by: Bob, from the NSA at May 30, 2015 11:33 AM (VPLuQ)

90 Posted by: Gordon Gekko at May 30, 2015 11:32 AM (JO9+V)

****

I thought you were on a walking tour across America to sell car insurance. When did you get back?

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at May 30, 2015 11:33 AM (NeFrd)

91 I live in hope that some day, Boomers figure out that nobody loves the Beatles or Paul McCartney as much as they do. Few even care.

I hope that some day New Yorkers learn that nobody else loves or even cares about their city.

I hope that some day, pizza makers in California who make that "gourmet" microgreen-soy-tofu-garlic pizza with rosemary aoli sauce are swallowed up by an earthquake.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:34 AM (39g3+)

92 Welp- gotta go walk my sloth around the block. Be back in two or three days.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at May 30, 2015 11:35 AM (NeFrd)

93 The Left is obsessed with process, not outcome. Or really, process and some magical equal and totes "fair" outcome where they, the enlightened ones are still ahead. It's maddening listening to them drone on about process and intentions while totally ignoring that their policy was not only a flop, but made things worse. Which becomes a justification for more of the same, with extra money!

One example is jobs training. Is there ever a time that doesn't call for MORE jobs training? And yet, has anyone ever specified exactly what this training is (which jobs? who trains?) and quantify its success rate? No. Just train, train, train and somehow people will magically become employed. This goes double for Head Start.

This is Vanity.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2015 11:35 AM (q6kiT)

94 Damn snooping sock

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:35 AM (VPLuQ)

95 It looks to me that one could define this fundamental concept post by using something from Ayn Rand.

That being rational self interest. Caveat is it must be practiced legally, morally, and ethically.

Do I get derided now, or is that worthy of discussion?

Posted by: irongrampa

Any system will work somewhat well if the people try to be legal, moral and ethical. Political systems and economic systems FAIL when the people become seduced into voting for or choosing the illegal, immoral and unethical, in hopes of "getting their fair share", or more commonly, stealing from your neighbor.
The Rule of Law gets corrupted when the people are corrupted. We (as a country) asked for Obama, and we got him good and hard.
And we, as a country, will ask for the manifest corruption and lies of Clinton, Inc. in 2016 and will get that, too.

It hurts to believe in the legal, moral and ethical as an individual man, and see the country circling the drain because people are throwing it away.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at May 30, 2015 11:36 AM (RFeQD)

96 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just--yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them--therefore he thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 30, 2015 11:36 AM (VAsIq)

97 No. Just train, train, train and somehow people will magically become employed...

Posted by: Lizzy

Choo Choo!

Posted by: Joe Biden at May 30, 2015 11:37 AM (VAsIq)

98 Any system will work somewhat well if the people try to be legal, moral and ethical.

That's the key. Communism can work if the entire populace is virtuous and selfless. ANY system can work if the people are genuinely good.

The difference here is that people aren't good, and capitalism takes advantage of that to shape them for the best realistic outcome for the most people.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:38 AM (39g3+)

99 Posted by: Bob, from the NSA at May 30, 2015 11:33 AM (VPLuQ)

The effort was to PACIFY the human race.

Humans are very messy. And contentious.

This disturbs the fastidious left because they believe everything must conform.

They don't believe in a Deity so they try to correct what they believe are Humanity's flaws.

Being human themselves they always will fail but while striving for their perfection people die.

We've seen this movie too many times.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at May 30, 2015 11:38 AM (zRby/)

100 12 Now it is better that a man should be judged of God than of man, for the judgments of God are always just, but the judgments of man are not always just.

13 Therefore, if it were possible that you could have just men to be your kings, who would establish the laws of God, and judge this people according to his commandments, yea, if ye could have men for your kings who would do even as my father Benjamin did for this people--I say unto you, if this could always be the case then it would be expedient that ye should always have kings to rule over you.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 30, 2015 11:40 AM (VAsIq)

101 "The effort was to PACIFY the human race."

Dr. Caron: These are just a few of the images we've recorded. And you can see, it wasn't what we thought. There's been no war here and no terraforming event. The environment is stable. It's the Pax. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works. The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work, they stopped breeding, talking, eating. There's 30 million people here, and they all just let themselves die.

I know it's just a movie script, but....

Every time someone attempts to create utopia on earth, millions die.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:41 AM (VPLuQ)

102 Teacher says, Every time someone attempts to create utopia on earth, millions die.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice

I love that line from It's a Wonderful Life.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 30, 2015 11:42 AM (VAsIq)

103 Every time someone attempts to create utopia on earth, millions die.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice

The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at May 30, 2015 11:43 AM (RFeQD)

104 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:34 AM (39g3+)

I live in hope that some day, the fucking x gens or y gens or millenials or whoever quit blaming anything and everything they don't find palatable or to their taste on the "Boomers".

We're not omnipotent and we're not really trying to ruin your life. You're probably doing a good job of that all by yourself. Just like everyone in history has done.

Take some responsibility for your life and ignore what you don't like. Quit whining.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at May 30, 2015 11:43 AM (zRby/)

105 Great post, Weirddave. A treatise on the spiritual benefits of free markets.

There's one other tidbit I'd like to add if someone upthread hasn't already: free markets direct the natural energy of people away from the destructive towards the peaceful. Everybody needs something to do in life and they'll find it, even if it involves beheading someone they consider to be an enemy.

Work gives this energy a peaceful outlet. Creating a product or filling a real need brings a sense of accomplishment that one would hope is greater than that of a beheading (and a bit more socially acceptable, too).

But, our betters lack this basic, simple truth. The rest of us are suffering needlessly because of it. Their understanding of life stopped when their potty training started.

I had to gently correct my young guitar-playing buddy recently when he started in on the "evil rich" crap. I mentioned that there's nothing wrong with having money and there are plenty of good people doing good things with money every day, it's just that you never hear about it.

A great silence followed.

I told him that money was like fire: it can either be used for good or evil. Control it and use it the right way, it's good. Let it get away from you and it's not so good. I haven't heard the "evil rich" crap from him since.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 30, 2015 11:43 AM (0HooB)

106 Great post.

The sins.
And FEAR is the poison.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: Copa del Rey Final 3:30EST at May 30, 2015 11:44 AM (zqrZE)

107 The sins.
And FEAR is the poison.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette:

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

Posted by: Muad'dib at May 30, 2015 11:45 AM (VAsIq)

108 >>The effort was to PACIFY the human race.
Humans are very messy. And contentious.

Similar theme in Equilibrium, though that movie included some cool martial arts. And it that world puppies were illegal. Puppies!

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2015 11:46 AM (q6kiT)

109
George Spiggott: What terrible sins I have working for me. I suppose it's the wages.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 30, 2015 11:47 AM (DiZBp)

110 Similar theme in Equilibrium, though that movie included some cool martial arts. And in that world puppies were illegal. Puppies!

Posted by: Lizzy

What about sweater puppies?

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 30, 2015 11:47 AM (VAsIq)

111 I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
Posted by: Muad'dib at May 30, 2015 11:45 AM (VAsIq)

Aye.

I fear not.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: Copa del Rey Final 3:30EST at May 30, 2015 11:48 AM (zqrZE)

112 "What about sweater puppies?"

And who can resist petting puppies?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:48 AM (VPLuQ)

113 Take some responsibility for your life and ignore what you don't like. Quit whining.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger
------------------------

Hmm? Sorry, I didn't hear what you said. Got my earbuds in, and I was checking my text messages.

Posted by: Most under age 30 at May 30, 2015 11:49 AM (n6Nt0)

114 >>The effort was to PACIFY the human race.
Humans are very messy. And contentious.

Similar theme in Equilibrium, though that movie included some cool martial arts. And it that world puppies were illegal. Puppies!

Posted by: Lizzy

In Gerald Lund's "The Alliance," the "Utopian" "perfect" society has to continually raid other communities to bring in fresh blood because, for some odd reason, not enough people in their perfect world are having children.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 30, 2015 11:49 AM (VAsIq)

115 Similar theme in Equilibrium, though that movie included some cool martial arts. And it that world puppies were illegal. Puppies!

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2015 11:46 AM (q6kiT)

The new Netflix Original, DareDevil (another Marvel licensing), MMA all the time.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: Copa del Rey Final 3:30EST at May 30, 2015 11:49 AM (zqrZE)

116 And who can resist petting puppies?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice

"Not I" said the pig.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at May 30, 2015 11:50 AM (VAsIq)

117 A PC can't fix its own blue screen of death, nor can we our own nature. Human nature points invariably downward. Seven sins, or 700, are just symptoms of this fact. It can't be fixed - only judged, condemned and replaced, and that only by our Creator through the cross and resurrection of Christ. No other way.

Posted by: Doomed at May 30, 2015 11:50 AM (bGLSw)

118 The new Netflix Original, DareDevil (another Marvel licensing), MMA all the time.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette:

I will jump off the wall at you!

Posted by: Matt Murdock at May 30, 2015 11:50 AM (VAsIq)

119 I live in hope that some day, the fucking x gens or y gens or millenials or whoever quit blaming anything and everything they don't find palatable or to their taste on the "Boomers".

Sorry I said something negative about the Beatles. Go play Norwegian Wood and calm down.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:51 AM (39g3+)

120
I will never stop believing that my country will endure.

The bedrock--those documents we revere--are still here, they've gone nowhere in spite of the left's efforts.

At some point they will emerge from the layer of filth deposited on them,and we will be that shining city on a hill again.

I doubt my life span will see this, but will go to my grave working in my admittedly small way to effect that emergence.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 30, 2015 11:51 AM (jeCnD)

121 The problem with utopians is that people keep not going along with the plan, and eventually they get so frustrated and upset they start killing people. Always.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:51 AM (39g3+)

122 Human nature points invariably downward.
-------------------

There is no such thing as 'human nature'.

Posted by: Liberals at May 30, 2015 11:52 AM (n6Nt0)

123 A PC can't fix its own blue screen of death, nor can we our own nature. Human nature points invariably downward. Seven sins, or 700, are just symptoms of this fact. It can't be fixed - only judged, condemned and replaced, and that only by our Creator through the cross and resurrection of Christ. No other way.

Posted by: Doomed

Or possibly--aliens.

Posted by: Giorgio A. Tsoukalos at May 30, 2015 11:53 AM (VAsIq)

124 >>In Gerald Lund's "The Alliance," the "Utopian" "perfect" society has to
continually raid other communities to bring in fresh blood because, for
some odd reason, not enough people in their perfect world are having
children.

Haven't watched Equilibrium in a while, but they drugged people to remove all emotion and purged anything that inspired emotion, such as art and cute puppies - so I would imagine no romantic love, either.

The thing about human nature is that the best way to control it is to do it at the individual level - people control themselves - which is why Christianity has been such a civilizing, prosperous force and movements like Communism and Islam fail.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2015 11:53 AM (q6kiT)

125 Sorry I said something negative about the Beatles. Go play Norwegian Wood and calm down.
Posted by: Christopher
-------------------

I don't like The Beatles...., well, except for that 'Helter Skelter' tune.

Posted by: Charlie Manson at May 30, 2015 11:54 AM (n6Nt0)

126 That's the key. Communism can work if the entire populace is virtuous and selfless. ANY system can work if the people are genuinely good. [/I}

But Americans are blind to this fact too, because they mistakenly place the credit for their country's success on the Constitution, as if it were a magic spell called into being by the mystical Founders. In fact, America would have been great no matter what system of government it started with, because its people were great. If George Washington had decided to become King after all, then America would have been a great monarchy. It would have been different from the America that actually resulted, but it still would have been great and successful. It's the people that make the system work, not the other way around.

And now that the people of America are corrupt, the country is failing. Conservative calls to "return to the Constitution" are in vain; the Constitution was never what made America great, and it won't magically make it great again. Only reforming the people will work.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at May 30, 2015 11:55 AM (VBbCO)

127 Ah, crumb!

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at May 30, 2015 11:56 AM (VBbCO)

128 daily caller finally on board

'BURN IT DOWN'
University Feminist Group Vandalizes Innocent Frat On The Eve Of Graduation

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: Copa del Rey Final 3:30EST at May 30, 2015 11:56 AM (zqrZE)

129 The problem with utopians is that people keep not going along with the plan,
-----------------------

Yes..., that's a problem, the people never cooperate, therefore, we must force them to cooperate.

Posted by: Joe Stalin at May 30, 2015 11:57 AM (n6Nt0)

130 The wages of Sloth are Free Shit.

Posted by: FSA at May 30, 2015 11:57 AM (ycu3n)

131 116
And who can resist petting puppies?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice

Dog's be harrum.

Goat's be good.

Posted by: Mohamed, the goat fucker at May 30, 2015 11:57 AM (0FSuD)

132 Help! I am being held prisoner by sloth.

Ok, maybe it's depression. . . and a hallucination. Could be blood sugar, chronic fatigue syndrome. It's all so pointless anyway. Have you read the news?

In the end, we are all dead. So just take what you need, you only live once, and only the good die young. Just look at George Soros. If you want to live forever, you have to be evil.

Take me now Lord, I'm ready to leave.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at May 30, 2015 11:57 AM (PzMgr)

133 Only reforming the people will work.

---------

Which is precisely why it won't.

Posted by: Doomed at May 30, 2015 11:57 AM (bGLSw)

134 95 It looks to me that one could define this fundamental concept post by using something from Ayn Rand.

That being rational self interest. Caveat is it must be practiced legally, morally, and ethically.

Do I get derided now, or is that worthy of discussion?

Posted by: irongrampa

Any system will work somewhat well if the people try to be legal, moral and ethical. Political systems and economic systems FAIL when the people become seduced into voting for or choosing the illegal, immoral and unethical, in hopes of "getting their fair share", or more commonly, stealing from your neighbor.
The Rule of Law gets corrupted when the people are corrupted. We (as a country) asked for Obama, and we got him good and hard.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at May 30, 2015 11:36 AM (RFeQD)

Ayn Rand's ideas are always worthy of discussion.

The founders, knowing that man was imperfect, corrupt, and power-hungry, sought to create a government that prevented anybody from gaining too much power. And a government must provide incentives for people to behave legally, morally, and ethically. Playing by the rules should enable one to be successful. For most of its history the United States government did this better than any other government in history, and as a consequence a great deal of wealth was created, as well as technological progress the likes of which the world had never seen.

But we have been chopping away at the "checks and balances" the founders created almost from the beginning. The last thing they wanted was a democracy, where the majority rules. But today we have a nearly pure democracy. There is little left of the original republic. If 52% votes to enslave the 48%, there's nothing we can do about it. And all the incentives now are for dodging the law, and getting ahead by having the right connections rather than providing products and services that people want.

Ayn Rand called it "the aristocracy of pull".

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 11:58 AM (sdi6R)

135 Only reforming the people will work.
---------
Which is precisely why it won't.
Posted by: Doomed
-----------------

It's that damned Human Nature thing again.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 30, 2015 11:59 AM (n6Nt0)

136 And now that the people of America are corrupt, the country is failing. Conservative calls to "return to the Constitution" are in vain; the Constitution was never what made America great, and it won't magically make it great again. Only reforming the people will work.

Ultimately, this is right. I believe the US Constitution is the finest political document and system ever devised by man. But as the founders said over and over, the only way it can work is if the citizens are virtuous.

Unless the people, the culture, the individual American is a better, less selfish, less corrupt person, no politician and no system will turn this ship around. It simply does not matter who is in office if the population cares only about themselves, their next orgasm, their next high, how comfortable, happy, rich, and safe they are.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 11:59 AM (39g3+)

137 The thing about human nature is that the best way to control it is to do it at the individual level - people control themselves - which is why Christianity has been such a civilizing, prosperous force and movements like Communism and Islam fail.

The Golden Rule of treating others they way you'd want to be treated is the single best idea in the history of ever. Out of that grows Empathy, which enables you to swap places with someone mentally in order to test the first rule.

Note that Prog/Com/Dims have neither of these qualities and that they will even go so far as to boo them three times in public.

#WASTF

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 30, 2015 12:00 PM (0HooB)

138 Nood

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 12:03 PM (VPLuQ)

139 >>The Golden Rule of treating others they way you'd want to be treated is the single best idea in the history of ever.

I agree. Categorically.

Really. It is imperative.

Posted by: IKant at May 30, 2015 12:03 PM (ycu3n)

140 I agree. Categorically.

Really. It is imperative.

And the best part is that you don't really need to be Christian to appreciate it's wisdom or to apply it in your life.

It awakens something good within everyone who tries it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 30, 2015 12:09 PM (0HooB)

141 You want a term for a political concept? How about Volksgemeinshaft? The concept was originated by some German academic in the 1880s in the first flush of German unity engineered by Bismark. The concept was that every German, regardless of his class or which part of Germany he came from was part of a German community that was more important than those other differences that had previously been the most important aspect of human relations and it pointed the way to a more egalitarian society where people could advanced on their abilities and effort rather than who and where they were born.

This idea became a lot more popular during WW I when "the brotherhood of the trenches" erased a lot of the regional, religious and class differences between soldiers serving together.

Of course, the idea was adopted by the Nazis and was the most popular part of their election campaign that got them into power in the one man, one vote, one time election that got them into power. The Nazis combined it with a whole blood and soil mythology and spent a whole lot of time on who was not part of the Volksgemeinshaft.

The United States started off with a lot of that egalitarianism and in the century after the Civil War, a lot of the regionalism became less important. Instead of blood and soil, being an American was a matter of choice to accept the founding agreement and philosophy. There was a sort of community of Americans that made people willing to accept sacrifices for the community. You could call it patriotism to describe the willingness to give up several years of one's youth and possibly one's life but there were other things like a willingness to pay taxes for the good of the larger community or the willingness to accept being passed over for a job so that a less qualified affirmative action candidate could take it in the hope that it would lead to a more cohesive and ultimately stronger community.

At this point, that sense of American community seems pretty well shattered. Appeals to it just sound like the sort of thing carnival barkers or sleazy salesmen tell suckers to separate them from their money.

Francis Fukuyama wrote about the advantages that a high trust society have over a low trust society. During the Obama administration the most important fundamental change that he has engineered has been the transition of America into a low trust society and the end of an American community.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 30, 2015 12:10 PM (QHgTq)

142 It is politically advantageous to flatter, indulge and appeal to the downpull of human nature while simultaneously denying it exists or, once that's become foolish to do, pretending it can be shaped and modified through vast layers of government. That has been the Left's secret of power and for them it has worked. It's what Franklin warned us against. It's what has killed our society anyway.

Posted by: Doomed at May 30, 2015 12:11 PM (tkcYP)

143 It simply does not matter who is in office if the population cares only
about themselves, their next orgasm, their next high, how comfortable,
happy, rich, and safe they are.

The depressing part is if they cared, just a little, if they grasped 1/10th of the principles, then they could continue caring mostly just about themselves, their next orgasm, their next high, how comfortable,
happy, rich, and safe they are. If they just....changed the oil every 5000 miles. Replaced the air filter once a year. Just did minimum stuff, the system would keep ticking.

Because they can't, they soon won't have or be any of those things.

And what is WASTF? We are so totally fucked?

Posted by: Weirddave at May 30, 2015 12:14 PM (WvS3w)

144 104
I live in hope that some day, the fucking x gens or y gens or millenials or whoever quit blaming anything and everything they don't find palatable or to their taste on the "Boomers".

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at May 30, 2015 11:43 AM (zRby/)

I know this isn't the book thread, but I will once again recommend "The Fourth Turning" by Strauss and Howe. Every generation will find it interesting, and it provides insights on what makes one's own generation, as well as other generations, tick.

I'm a Boomer, but after reading it I will never look at the Millennials the same way again. You won't see me dissing them. They have a tough row to hoe.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2015 12:14 PM (sdi6R)

145 There is no such thing as 'human nature'.

Posted by: Liberals at May 30, 2015 11:52 AM (n6Nt0)

What is known as "human nature" is just learned behavior, taught by capitalist society, and will all change immediately when we institute "New Socialist Man." - ~~Marxists~~ ~~liberals~~ ~~Democrats~~ ~~progressives ah hell, "Reds" covers 'em all~~

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 30, 2015 12:25 PM (oKE6c)

146 Oops.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 30, 2015 12:25 PM (oKE6c)

147 We can't fix human nature. But with careful teaching by parents, a culture that shames and discourages evil rather than celebrating it, examples around us that demonstrate ambition, fortitude, hard work, and seeing problems as opportunities makes a huge difference.

Just having the popular culture display traditional American values as good and beneficial is a huge advantage in terms of shaping low info voter perspective on candidates.

http://tinyurl.com/ol9fz7w

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 12:32 PM (39g3+)

148 We can't fix human nature. But with careful teaching by parents, a culture that shames and discourages evil rather than celebrating it, examples around us that demonstrate ambition, fortitude, hard work, and seeing problems as opportunities makes a huge difference.

--------------

Not without some overarching moral code and standard to which all, if only for the sake of a cohesive society, agree applies to all without exception or exemption. We have now decayed far past the point where people can even agree any such standard should exist, much less what it would look like.

Posted by: Doomed at May 30, 2015 12:41 PM (bGLSw)

149 I agree, every civilization needs a skeleton to build on, and that skeleton is a shared, agreed upon objective, absolute standard of behavior. That's always been religion in the past, and while modern man thinks we can do it differently, all they've managed to do is debone our civilization.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 30, 2015 12:44 PM (39g3+)

150 I don't like The Beatles...., well, except for that 'Helter Skelter' tune.
Posted by: Charlie Manson at May 30, 2015 11:54 AM -----------
Anybody watching "Aquarius"? It's pretty good. Tuned in for Duchovny and stayed for the smart writing.

Never understood the appeal of Manson, but then I've always been impervious to the magnetism of Big Men and psychopaths.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at May 30, 2015 12:47 PM (jR7Wy)

151 What's wrong with sloth?

Posted by: Eric Holder at May 30, 2015 12:50 PM (cIoI4)

152 In order to run the world you also must Bear False Witness against thy neighbor, especially if thy neighbor is a Republican.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at May 30, 2015 12:53 PM (JgC5a)

153 Envy and greed are active vices, motivators. But hypocrisy allows liberals to be at peace with themselves as they act upon their other vices.

Posted by: Eric Holder at May 30, 2015 12:53 PM (XrHO0)

154 all they've managed to do is debone
our civilization.

***

Which was exactly the #1 thing they needed to do in order to win the ultimate prize of absolute power, which is now nearly theirs. It took them several generations but they've pretty much pulled it off. Social disintegration, chaos and anarchy are resulting, which will only cause them to ride in to right all wrongs by resetting the whole thing. That's been their end game, and I think they've won. They appealed to human nature first and foremost, and it's paid off.

"IF you can keep it." We couldn't. Nice try, but we just couldn't. I think Franklin and the others knew it.

Posted by: Doomed, no longer mobile at May 30, 2015 01:00 PM (bGLSw)

155 Envy and greed are active vices, motivators. But hypocrisy allows
liberals to be at peace with themselves as they act upon their other
vices.

***

That's true, but hypocrisy could technically fall under Pride, perhaps as its fruit or outworking. Traditionally, Pride is the chief, cardinal sin...as in, of Satan's, which would make even more sense in this case.

Posted by: Doomed, no longer mobile at May 30, 2015 01:04 PM (bGLSw)

156
"Can't figure out WTF it is suppose to do. "

After reading your Wiki link, I think I know what it does.

And the first thing I would do with it is smash it with a baseball bat.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 11:11 AM (VPLuQ)

Agree 100% I don't want to have ANYTHING to do with the "cloud". You have zero expectation of privacy.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 30, 2015 02:15 PM (mwzXN)

157 "Agree 100% I don't want to have ANYTHING to do with the "cloud". You have zero expectation of privacy."

Not only is it the cloud.
The damn thing sits in your home with an active microphone, listening for command words, and other spoken words which can be compared to the cloud.

All the government needs now is an active network to listen for "Trigger " words, or words of interest.

At one point in my life, I would have called that Tin Foil Hat territory.

Now?

next someone is going to tell me that unmarked Cessnas without registration numbers are doing circular flight paths over Baltimore at night during the riots.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 30, 2015 02:43 PM (VPLuQ)

158 "A feller could have a good time in Vegas"
Spoken by the immortal Slim Pickens (Major King Kong)

The original script said 'Dallas' but it was dubbed over due the recent assasination of JFK.

Posted by: Otto Maddox at May 30, 2015 03:31 PM (hyUPo)

159 "The whole thing rests on a fulcrum of virtue."

Truer words were never spoken.

And that's why the "anti-values" Republicans are making a fatal error. We need those Judeo-Christian virtues to make the thing go. Call them the endoskeleton.

With that endoskeleton, the body collapses, and the Marxists hustle up to clap on an iron exoskeleton.

Posted by: Beverly at May 30, 2015 04:16 PM (OXTR7)

160 "What's in the box?"

Posted by: Det. David Mills at May 31, 2015 11:20 AM (nbGZj)

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