The Idiocy Of "Sure People Have A Right To Speech But....."

There are a lot of examples of the genre in the wake of the Garland, TX terrorist attack but Ken White at Popehat finds a particularly stupid one to gnaw on for awhile. As you might expect, hilarity and carnage ensue.

I can't come close to Ken's take down on the law but there's one sub-genre I'd like to address. It's the, "sure xxxx is a terrible, horrible, no good, piece of human excrement but even someone that loathsome is entitled to speak" club. Spare me the throat clearing. The quality of the person speaking and the content of their speech isn't at issue. In fact they are entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It's the right to speak and our willingness as a society to stand for the principle that matters.

The reality is I'm not standing for or with Pam Geller, the KKK or anyone else I may disagree with. I'm standing for myself. Someday each of us may find ourselves on the "wrong" side of "all right thinking people" and unless we draw a firm and bright line all the time, we should not expect it to protect us when we most need it.

Posted by: DrewM. at 11:18 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Geller was asking for it.

Posted by: Satan, liberal, populist at May 05, 2015 11:20 AM (bynk/)

2 Only I should be allowed to speak.

Posted by: Chris Matthews at May 05, 2015 11:20 AM (W5DcG)

3 Bitch had it coming...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at May 05, 2015 11:21 AM (Bn6aD)

4 Should Liberals expect a shootout the next time they stomp on an American flag?

Posted by: gastorgrab at May 05, 2015 11:21 AM (u6OFe)

5 I just want to leave this here.
http://is.gd/I5R7qC

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:22 AM (ZKzrr)

6
So is it racist to have tacos today? I better not take any chances and have a margarita too.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 05, 2015 11:22 AM (ODxAs)

7 Should Liberals expect a shootout the next time they stomp on an American flag?

It's really too bad they don't, it might improve them.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:22 AM (ZKzrr)

8 My roommate says that Gellar was clearly asking for it.

Posted by: ErnieTC at May 05, 2015 11:23 AM (zt+N6)

9 Pam Geller and her provocative 'draw Mohammed' event forces the defenders of Islam to react violently is the same argument an abusive husband says about his wife, 'she made me beat her up'. If she had done what I told her, and kept her smart mouth shut, I would not have had to give her that black eye.

Posted by: Hondo Phrestrae at May 05, 2015 11:23 AM (h/jFA)

10 There is no "BUT" in any legitimate argument

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:24 AM (rDqRv)

11 So is it racist to have tacos today?

On Taco Tuesday? It's racist NOT to.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:24 AM (ZKzrr)

12 My roommate says that Gellar was clearly asking for it.
Posted by: ErnieTC at May 05, 2015 11:23 AM (zt+N6)

Ask him or her if the next time he or she pissed you off are he or she asking for it?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:25 AM (rDqRv)

13
Nothing a man says before the word "but" really matters.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 05, 2015 11:25 AM (6/3TZ)

14
First, Pam Geller is a good person and doesn't deserve to be in the same goddam sentence as the KKK.

Second, and this is not aimed at drewm, Pam Geller has bigger balls than ALL the internet cocksuckers who feel the need to knock her down a peg or dismiss as a fanatic before they agree with her.

Just wanted to put that out there.

When you do what Pam Geller has done, then you talk shit about her.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 05, 2015 11:26 AM (Ng9V+)

15 There is no "BUT" in any legitimate argument

There's always a butt in an argument.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 05, 2015 11:26 AM (K/p7v)

16 Progressives and muslims *always* blame the victims. It's hardly surprising they feel kinship.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at May 05, 2015 11:26 AM (GDulk)

17 The same people who think Pam Geller is at fault here believe that women should not even learn how to protect themselves from rapists because protecting oneself promotes rape culture. I'm not sure I understand how that works.

Posted by: huerfano at May 05, 2015 11:26 AM (bynk/)

18 Of course slavery was horrible and white people should be ashamed, but Baltimore...

Posted by: Kate58 at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM (MvtKs)

19 So is it racist to have tacos today?

On Taco Tuesday? It's racist NOT to.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:24 AM

Wait...I thought it was Rapey Tuesday. So when we have the tacos are we supposed to have the tacos? I'm so confused.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM (h4vJk)

20 Gives new meaning to the "trigger warning" label liberals want to impose on speech on campus and elsewhere.

Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM (1BQGO)

21 Yea that girl was just asking to be raped. Did you see how short that dress was?

Posted by: wrg500 at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM (S+el1)

22 There's always a butt in an argument.
Posted by: rickb223 at May 05, 2015 11:26 AM (K/p7v)

or an ass

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM (rDqRv)

23 My roommate says that Gellar was clearly asking for it.

Posted by: ErnieTC at May 05, 2015 11:23 AM (zt+N6)

Sorry buzz. You missed the point. But go ahead and beat your dick to whatever you imagine I said.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM (TOk1P)

24 Maybe islam is the problem here.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 05, 2015 11:28 AM (2AlPN)

25 I really cannot fathom why the most basic tenet of freedom of speech in regards to the 1st amendment is so hard for some people to grasp.

Posted by: Heralder at May 05, 2015 11:28 AM (ECROs)

26 She rode in to Texas on a high horse.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 05, 2015 11:28 AM (W5DcG)

27 Wait...I thought it was Rapey Tuesday. So when we have the tacos are we supposed to have the tacos? I'm so confused.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM

Note to self: Never have tacos with RMBS.

Posted by: huerfano at May 05, 2015 11:28 AM (bynk/)

28 >>"Sure People Have A Right To Speech But....."

"....was the artist too provocative (the bad kind) in making a picture of the Virgin Mary out of elephant dung?"

"...was Scorcese too provocative in depicting Jesus like he did in 'The Last Temptation of Christ'?"

And so on. This list could go on for miles if we wanted to list all of the "needless provocations" against Christians.

Throw their "but it's art, which is meant to provoke a reaction" right back in their faces.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (2TN4k)

29 I really cannot fathom why the most basic tenet of freedom of speech in regards to the 1st amendment is so hard for some people to grasp.
Posted by: Heralder at May 05, 2015 11:28 AM

The left grasps it, Heralder. They also hate it and only use it to advance their own agenda. Period.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (h4vJk)

30 The remaining Charlie Hebo editors are all "oh no, this is totes different than what we did! We're not like *those* people."

Fucking cowards. We stood for you, and this is how you return the favor. Lefties man.

Posted by: Lauren at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (MYCIw)

31 I really cannot fathom why the most basic tenet of freedom of speech in regards to the 1st amendment is so hard for some people to grasp.
Posted by: Heralder at May 05, 2015 11:28 AM (ECROs)

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (rDqRv)

32
One more thing, Pam Geller has been out there literally sticking her neck out for years. She deserves a little gratitude not sneers and jeers from a bunch of do-nothings.

Who am I talking to? Whoever is talking shit about Pam Geller. This is why we lose to the Left all the time. Because we don't have the balls to stand up -- instead we distance ourselves from those who do stand up because it hides our shame and laziness.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (Ng9V+)

33 The remaining Charlie Hebo editors are all "oh no, this is totes different than what we did! We're not like *those* people."

Fucking cowards. We stood for you, and this is how you return the favor. Lefties man.
Posted by: Lauren at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (MYCIw)

Well French and all

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:30 AM (rDqRv)

34 My roommate says that Gellar was clearly asking for it.

Posted by: ErnieTC at May 05, 2015 11:23 AM (zt+N6)

There are TEN reasons your roommate has his head up his ass.

Posted by: Count von Count at May 05, 2015 11:30 AM (2AlPN)

35 Throw their "but it's art, which is meant to provoke a reaction" right back in their faces.

"But it's art."

So are chalk outlines.

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:30 AM (YlaKl)

36 >>The remaining Charlie Hebo editors are all "oh no, this is totes different than what we did! We're not like *those* people."

*facepalm*

Posted by: Lizzy at May 05, 2015 11:30 AM (2TN4k)

37 When someone says:

"sure xxxx is a terrible, horrible, no good, piece of human excrement but even someone that loathsome is entitled to speak"

Isn't that person saying:

"The quality of the person speaking and the content of their speech isn't at issue."

I'm not sure I understand the distinction. Are you simply arguing that people shouldn't preface an argument with a statement that doesn't support the conclusion? I think the purpose of the preface is to acknowledge that the speech may be awful but that's precisely why it needs protection. Again, I'm not sure I'm following.

Posted by: Saddam Who's Sane at May 05, 2015 11:30 AM (0JdXb)

38 25, the reason it is hard for people to grasp is because they have been brainwashed by 50 years of left wing media broadcasts and a left wing education system. Importing left wing voters from other left wing countries also plays a role.

Posted by: Dan at May 05, 2015 11:31 AM (COpZ4)

39 32
One more thing, Pam Geller has been out there literally sticking her neck out for years. She deserves a little gratitude not sneers and jeers from a bunch of do-nothings.

Who am I talking to? Whoever is talking shit about Pam Geller. This is why we lose to the Left all the time. Because we don't have the balls to stand up -- instead we distance ourselves from those who do stand up because it hides our shame and laziness.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (Ng9V+)

^^This.

Posted by: rickl at May 05, 2015 11:31 AM (zoehZ)

40
I really cannot fathom why the most basic tenet of freedom of speech in
regards to the 1st amendment is so hard for some people to grasp.

Well, the leftists can't just willy-nilly let people openly talk about their ideas of Liberty and Freedom, now can they?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 05, 2015 11:31 AM (ODxAs)

41 This is typical of the" tolerant " libs.....Speech is free unless You dare criticize one of their "sacred" cows...Then all bets are off...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at May 05, 2015 11:31 AM (Bn6aD)

42 I think this was red meat to draw out the savages.
It worked.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at May 05, 2015 11:31 AM (JgC5a)

43 Ask not what you can do for Allah, Ask what you can do for Crusades.....

Posted by: Barry 0Bola at May 05, 2015 11:31 AM (8E9QA)

44
Posted by: BurtTC at May 05, 2015 11:27 AM (TOk1P)

Did you get your cross back from the hunkie Jesus from yesterday?

Posted by: buzzion at May 05, 2015 11:31 AM (zt+N6)

45 Pam Geller and her provocative 'draw Mohammed' event forces the
defenders of Islam to react violently is the same argument an abusive
husband says about his wife, 'she made me beat her up'. If she had done
what I told her, and kept her smart mouth shut, I would not have had to
give her that black eye.

Another good analogy. I will steal that.

I expect some sort of "she's not a woman, she's conservative" as response, though.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:32 AM (ZKzrr)

46 Don't worry, Huck is announcing his candidacy right now. We are saved.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 05, 2015 11:32 AM (g1DWB)

47 >>But it's art."

So are chalk outlines.

Performance art! Put them on stage next to the vagina knitter!!

Posted by: Lizzy at May 05, 2015 11:32 AM (2TN4k)

48 46 Don't worry, Huck is announcing his candidacy right now. We are saved.

Who isn't running...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at May 05, 2015 11:33 AM (Bn6aD)

49 Ya know, if I had known this surrender to Islam shit was gonna happen, I would've ignored that Papal Bull and stayed the hell out of Jerusalem and Acre.........Just Sayin'.

Posted by: Larry the Holy Crusader at May 05, 2015 11:33 AM (8E9QA)

50 On Taco Tuesday? It's racist NOT to.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:24 AM (ZKzrr)
******
On tranny Tuesday, it's transphobic not to get a sex change.

Posted by: Bruce Jenner at May 05, 2015 11:34 AM (YjUIk)

51 The way the First Amendment works is really quite simple. We have the right to insult the King, or anyone who believes they should be King. We have the right to insult Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists or even the indifferent.

Under the fairness doctrine, once 'those fighting words' have been said, the insulted party has to right to punch out your lights.

At that point the state will intervene to mediate the dispute. Lawyers will rack up billable hours, a jury will decide, and someone goes to jail. That's the way it works in a civil society. What's the problem?

Posted by: Hondo Phrestrae at May 05, 2015 11:34 AM (h/jFA)

52
48 46 Don't worry, Huck is announcing his candidacy right now. We are saved. Who isn't running...
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at May 05, 2015 11:33 AM (Bn6aD)

Hillary. But only because the exo suit tech isn't advance enough to go beyond a slow jog,

Posted by: buzzion at May 05, 2015 11:34 AM (zt+N6)

53 Anyone is free to place themselves on the continuum from William F. Buckley to Fred Phelps in the style of their offerings to public discourse. This is America.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 05, 2015 11:34 AM (659DL)

54 That's the way it works in a civil society. What's the problem?

The lack of safe spaces for fragile flowers.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 05, 2015 11:35 AM (659DL)

55 So...when can we expect someone to say this about equal opportunity religion-basher Bill Maher?

Needlessly provocative, right? Right?

Posted by: Lizzy at May 05, 2015 11:35 AM (2TN4k)

56 The lack of safe spaces for fragile flowers.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 05, 2015 11:35 AM (659DL)

A fainting couch in ever house!

Posted by: wrg500 at May 05, 2015 11:36 AM (S+el1)

57 Off-topic, or at least skew-topic...

What Makes the Djoker Cry?

"For the first time since the beginning of his trial, Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev dropped his icy, indifferent demeanor and broke down in tears as his relatives and friends testified as part of the penalty phase, describing him as a once-time wunderkind with a kind heart and goofy side to him. ...

"Photos of lost limbs and murdered children shown in court earlier had elicited no such response from the mass killer."

Blazing Cat Fur
http://bit.ly/tjoker-cries

Posted by: Boston Baked Beings at May 05, 2015 11:36 AM (9K3Nr)

58 The simplest form of this argument is what I call "The Right to be wrong."

If you can believe in that, most of the other liberties we believe in fall out of that one Freedom Zero. Believe Geller for encouraging drawing Mo is wrong all you want, she has the right to be wrong. Simple, airtight defense and it allows distancing from what somebody does without ANY weaseling or buts.

So long as somebody isn't hurting others, they can be as wrong as they want because the second you cross that line somebody has to be put in a position of officially deciding who is 'wrong' and that is far worse than anything somebody is going to ever speak. So go ahead and put a crucifix in piss, just don't demand everybody else pay you for it. Same for drawing Mo, so long as Pam keeps her hand out of the public till she can go knock yerself out with it.

Same goes for the nutters going on about chemtrails, 9/11 'Truth' and all the rest of it, they can be as 'wrong' as they want because every one of us, especially here, is 'wrong' on one or more issues and damn sure don't want anybody demanding I obey.

Posted by: John Morris at May 05, 2015 11:37 AM (JiDdW)

59 Anyone is free to place themselves on the continuum from William F. Buckley to Fred Phelps in the style of their offerings to public discourse.

Buckley is too far left. /s

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:37 AM (YlaKl)

60 Where exactly is this "fighting words" exception in the 1st Amendment?

I suppose politicians will need to refrain from fighting words, too. So none of that "War on Women" and "Mitt Romney killed my wife" stuff.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 05, 2015 11:37 AM (2TN4k)

61 I see the dhimmi is here and he's still butthurt.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:38 AM (2Ojst)

62 I feel i've been triggered by this discussion. Whom do I need to see to fix this transgression?

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 05, 2015 11:38 AM (oDCMR)

63 Free speech was sacred to the Left when it didn't hold the media, academia, big business and nearly every organization from the Girl Scouts to the Red Cross. It protected them from being shut down by a majority who disagreed with them.

Now that they have a near monopoly on communication channels, they're perfectly happy to silence or harass opponents who might expose the stupidity of their incoherent philosophy. Now they want free speech like Communist China wanted free speech.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 05, 2015 11:39 AM (2AlPN)

64 Soothsayer is saying what I'm thinking.

Hey sooth, you sound like someone who was around for the good old days of LGF, before the Great Purge. Am I right?

Posted by: Rusty Nail at May 05, 2015 11:39 AM (tuPiK)

65
I don't think enough of the talk has been about the psychology to the isis bastards after a couple of their freedom hating terrorists had a spectacular failure and made room temperature.

Ha ha I give a Nelson Muntz laugh.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 05, 2015 11:39 AM (ODxAs)

66 The more that someone says that offends me, the taller I stand to defend that person's right to say it. I will be willing to die defending their right to say it.

Posted by: Soona at May 05, 2015 11:40 AM (/HX7u)

67 I think this was red meat to draw out the savages.

It worked.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster

Two down, a lot to go....

Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 05, 2015 11:40 AM (/Ho8c)

68 Where exactly is this "fighting words" exception in the 1st Amendment?

'Fighting words' was decided by a judge (Supreme Court?) and we all can agree, being reasonable people, that the Supreme Court trumps the US Constitution.

The Judges of the Supreme Court said so, and everyone agreed.

Posted by: Hondo Phrestrae at May 05, 2015 11:41 AM (h/jFA)

69 reposting from morning thread icymi

Speech given by Geert Wilders at Draw Mohammed gathering. Video and transcript.

"...Your statement, my statement, the statement of every single person present in this room here tonight is clear: We will never allow barbarism, we will never allow Islam to rob us of our freedom of speech! Never!..."

c/o Gates of Vienna
http://bit.ly/geert-texas

Posted by: We Are All Pam's Boobs at May 05, 2015 11:41 AM (9K3Nr)

70 The lack of safe spaces for ~~fragile flowers~~ petit fascists room to grow.

Posted by: Circa

Humbly submitted for revision.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 05, 2015 11:41 AM (K7krX)

71 So long as somebody isn't hurting others, they can be as wrong as they want

You realize that's why proggs and Muslims want Geller to die, right? The artwork "hurt" Muslims by violating a tenant of their faith.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:42 AM (ZKzrr)

72 Now that they have a near monopoly on communication channels, they're perfectly happy to silence or harass opponents who might expose the stupidity of their incoherent philosophy.

It's not really a philosophy--it's a means to obtain and keep power. Period. There is absolutely no normative value in leftist thinking.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 05, 2015 11:42 AM (659DL)

73 Most mexican bars will serve mini tacos and other assorted mexican theme appetizers. Does that make them racist? No, it makes them delicious@

Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 11:42 AM (iQIUe)

74 70 The lack of safe spaces for fragile flowers petit fascists room to grow.

Posted by: Circa

Humbly submitted for revision.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 05, 2015 11:41 AM (K7krX)

I dunno, some of those fascists ain't so petite, IYKWIM.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:42 AM (2Ojst)

75 l
Rusty I only visited LGF from time to time when it was good; never participated. But I do remember it then.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 05, 2015 11:42 AM (Ng9V+)

76 "Wise and Landay are effectively inviting people to be more violent in order to control what speech is permissible."

Geller said something similar in that if everyone in the msm stood up for her, the idiots would back down.

Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 11:44 AM (iQIUe)

77 You know, living in a very blue area and being very familiar with leftist thinking, I still can't f**king understand how their brain operates completely devoid of logic.

Posted by: Heralder at May 05, 2015 11:44 AM (ECROs)

78 I was a regular at LGF for a while before you know who went openly batshit. I quietly disappeared before the Purge took place.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:44 AM (2Ojst)

79 Someday each of us may find ourselves on the "wrong" side of "all right
thinking people" and unless we draw a firm and bright line all the time,
we should not expect it to protect us when we most need it.

Anyone with a basically American point of view is not going to be protected from the left. They are not our people and we are not theirs. We need to get used to that and act accordingly.

Pam has the right enemies, so I support her.

Posted by: Methos at May 05, 2015 11:45 AM (ZbV+0)

80 I'll stand with Pam just because a certain corpulent, ponytailed FailBlogger has made it his life's mission to snap her bra at every given opportunity.

And since Jharles is wrong about everything else...

Posted by: Citizen X at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (7ObY1)

81 I was a regular at LGF for a while before you know who went openly batshit.

Here's a picture of some weeds.

Buy my calendar.

You're banned.

Anthony Weiner was totally hacked.

I never said that.

You're banned.

Here are some more weeds.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (659DL)

82 It's the, "sure xxxx is a terrible, horrible, no good, piece of human excrement but even someone that loathsome is entitled to speak" club. Spare me the throat clearing.
---

^This.

Posted by: Y-not at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (9BRsg)

83 I was a regular at LGF for a while before you know who went openly batshit. I quietly disappeared before the Purge took place.

I got purged.
It was cleansing.

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (YlaKl)

84 In case any yall travel to Taipei, there's a taco joint here Macho Tacos. The chicken tacos are almost like the street vendors in El Paso. Very passable. Corn tortillas too!

Posted by: fastfreefall at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (bCWUP)

85 Ask him or her if the next time he or she pissed you off are he or she asking for it?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:25 AM (rDqRv)

Does verb-subject disageement count?

Posted by: Brian at May 05, 2015 11:47 AM (0bXhD)

86 I got purged.
It was cleansing.

*Downding*

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 05, 2015 11:47 AM (2AlPN)

87 Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (659DL)

Can't forget dough boys bike riding skills

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at May 05, 2015 11:48 AM (fWAjv)

88 Good post. God bless Texas marksmanship is still my main impression of the news story. I wonder if I would have even heard of the event if the loser hotheads had not made themselves target practice?

Posted by: PaleRider at May 05, 2015 11:48 AM (7w/kf)

89 81 I was a regular at LGF for a while before you know who went openly batshit.

Here's a picture of some weeds.

Buy my calendar.

You're banned.

Anthony Weiner was totally hacked.

I never said that.

You're banned.

Here are some more weeds.

LOL. Nice rundown. Don't forget the menu board that Fatty McFuckstick mistakenly ID'd as Andrew Breitbart's laptop and then refused to admit he was wrong.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 05, 2015 11:48 AM (7ObY1)

90 I did like Cox and Forkum though

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at May 05, 2015 11:48 AM (fWAjv)

91 37 When someone says:

"sure xxxx is a terrible, horrible, no good, piece of human excrement but even someone that loathsome is entitled to speak"

Isn't that person saying:

"The quality of the person speaking and the content of their speech isn't at issue."

===

They are pre-emptively condemning the speech and declaring it unworthy of consideration. Once they've done that, banning it altogether is only a small formality.

People who make those qualifications IMO aren't really disturbed when the speech they condemn is outright banned.

Posted by: despair at May 05, 2015 11:48 AM (J6suc)

92 The throbbing memo? That was me, bitchez.

Posted by: Cahrles Jhonsen at May 05, 2015 11:49 AM (2AlPN)

93 I don't know that I discount 'X is a crapweasel, but still is entitled to free speech' statements.

I mean, it boils down to 'X is a crapweasel, and someday, someone powerful will classify you as a crapweasel and try to shut you up, so you really ought to defend all crapweasels' rights so they're less likely to prevail'

Posted by: Fishie at May 05, 2015 11:49 AM (iy2lM)

94 Hearing a lot of people defending Pam Geller.... with mega qualifers. Free speech "but" crowd is out in force. From both sides of aisle. That is the most disturbing of all.

Posted by: Russkilitlover at May 05, 2015 11:49 AM (fWqNF)

95 "Wise and Landay are effectively inviting people to be more violent in order to control what speech is permissible."

So it kind of like dealing with AtC?

Posted by: wrg500 at May 05, 2015 11:49 AM (S+el1)

96 Pam Geller deserved it, and I gave it to her twice... in my deprived fantasies

Posted by: MikeH at May 05, 2015 11:50 AM (iUNhO)

97 I got purged.
It was cleansing.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (YlaKl)

I'm sure it was. I peeked in a couple of times after that, and it had only gotten worse.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:50 AM (2Ojst)

98 15 There is no "BUT" in any legitimate argument
----------------------------

It's where a progressive places his head when making their point.

Posted by: Roy at May 05, 2015 11:50 AM (VndSC)

99 I was a regular at LGF for a while before you know who went openly batshit. I quietly disappeared before the Purge took place.

I got purged.
It was cleansing.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:46 AM (YlaKl)

Yeah me to. I got banned for going after his pet..kilgore something? But by then it was all falling apart as that asshole was on his way to taking a hard left

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:50 AM (rDqRv)

100 ~~Free speech~~ but,

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:50 AM (YlaKl)

101 Who isn't running...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at May 05, 2015 11:33 AM (Bn6aD)

I was thinking the same thing.

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 05, 2015 11:51 AM (R8hU8)

102 Pam Geller deserved it, and I gave it to her twice... in my deprived fantasies

A firm spanking isn't what we're talking about here.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 05, 2015 11:51 AM (2AlPN)

103 By allowing "known wolves" to move freely or emigrate here with out restriction, the government de facto outlaws free speech. If your own government purposefully endangers you or allows you to be endangered, you realize your Constitutional rights are a paper tiger.

Posted by: Sunni LeBeouf at May 05, 2015 11:51 AM (xkSSa)

104 I'm not sure I understand the distinction. Are you simply arguing that people shouldn't preface an argument with a statement that doesn't support the conclusion?
Posted by: Saddam Who's Sane at May 05, 2015 11:30 AM (0JdXb)
---

No, the comment isn't on the speech being awful. It's on the PERSON being awful. It's a form of victim-blaming and it sucks balls.

Case in point:

"Pamela Geller is a crazy person and authentic bigot. But I fail to see how that in any way makes her responsible for fact she was attacked."

Posted by: Y-not at May 05, 2015 11:51 AM (9BRsg)

105 96 Pam Geller deserved it, and I gave it to her twice... in my deprived fantasies
Posted by: MikeH at May 05, 2015 11:50 AM (iUNhO)

I guess you are deprived, since they're only fantasies.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:51 AM (2Ojst)

106 " I think the purpose of the preface is to acknowledge that the speech may be awful"

Yes, and that's the problem. The speech isn't awful. Pam Geller isn't awful. She's honestly portraying islam.

Falling all over ourselves to denounce her only serves to undermine the goal of exposing islam for what it is.

I want to see a headline that says "Pam Geller is Right." because that is the truth.

Posted by: Lauren at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (MYCIw)

107 There's a "make your own non-alcoholic margarita" bar in the breakroom.

I feel I need to go out for Pad Thai.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (ZKzrr)

108 Yeah me to. I got banned for going after his pet..kilgore something? But by then it was all falling apart as that asshole was on his way to taking a hard left

Kilgore Trout. He of the racist midnight Moby raid over at Hot Gas. Now Kilgore has run afoul of the corpulent creep himself, even after trying to please his fat FailBlogger master with the Moby Raid. Which gives me a schadenboner.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (7ObY1)

109
I was banned for making an argument that the census taker committed suicide by referring to several similar examples where people lived a dual life, did not want to disappoint their loved ones and then committed suicide in a similar manner. I also complained, with examples, on how the msm was taking quotes from officials and paraphrasing them in order to give them a totally different meaning. Boy, that was an eye opener. If a news article has so and so said, there damn well better be quotes, otherwise they are pulling a fast one.

Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (iQIUe)

110 Case in point:

"Pamela Geller is a crazy person and authentic bigot. But I fail to see how that in any way makes her responsible for fact she was attacked."
Posted by: Y-not at May 05, 2015 11:51 AM (9BRsg)

It's called "Poisoning the Well."

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (2Ojst)

111 off, liar sock

Posted by: jwpaine at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (0bXhD)

112 32...Soothsayer. Spot on!

Posted by: Russkilitlover at May 05, 2015 11:53 AM (fWqNF)

113 105 96 Pam Geller deserved it, and I gave it to her twice... in my deprived fantasies
Posted by: MikeH at May 05, 2015 11:50 AM (iUNhO)

I guess you are deprived, since they're only fantasies.
Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:51 AM (2Ojst)

touche' - I meant depraved

Posted by: MikeH at May 05, 2015 11:53 AM (iUNhO)

114 They are pre-emptively condemning the speech and declaring it unworthy of consideration.

--------------------------------------------------

And this is wrong, how? I pre-emptively condemn every one of Dear Leader's speeches. But I don't demand that he not speak.

Posted by: Soona at May 05, 2015 11:53 AM (/HX7u)

115 107 There's a "make your own non-alcoholic margarita" bar in the breakroom.

I feel I need to go out for ~~Pad Thai~~a bottle of tequila.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (ZKzrr)

There, that's better.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:53 AM (2Ojst)

116 "Posted by: Soothsayer at May 05, 2015 11:29 AM (Ng9V+)"
^^This.

"63 Free speech was sacred to the Left when it didn't hold the media, academia, big business and nearly every organization from the Girl Scouts to the Red Cross. It protected them from being shut down by a majority who disagreed with them.

Now that they have a near monopoly on communication channels, they're perfectly happy to silence or harass opponents who might expose the stupidity of their incoherent philosophy. Now they want free speech like Communist China wanted free speech.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 05, 2015 11:39 AM (2AlPN) "
^^And this too !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 05, 2015 11:54 AM (go6ud)

117 Someday each of us may find ourselves on the "wrong" side of "all right thinking people"
------------------

I'll register a mild objection here to the use of "right thinking people".

The phrase does not, and should not be used to reflect or imply any sort of philosophy, no matter how obliquely. It isn't malleable. I get Drew's intent, i.e. that "right thinking" might be subject to some philosophical or political perspective, but it shouldn't be used in that sense. To do so invites the diminution of the phrase.

It is a trend these days to do such, and it compromises the viability of language.

One that gets on my nerves particularly is, "Carrot and stick". Casual misuse by pundits has adulterated it's original meaning and leaves a listener or reader at a loss as to what the user means.

Now, about that Oxford Comma Rule...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 05, 2015 11:54 AM (n6Nt0)

118 Hey NeverGiveUp, I posted this in the ONT last night, but wasn't sure if you saw it. I expect you could get a lot of business installing these things.

Moron Lifestyle-compliant dental implants: http://tinyurl.com/kgdapz8

Posted by: Country Singer at May 05, 2015 11:54 AM (8hctH)

119 non-alcoholic margarita

If I wanted to be pointless, I'd go back and re-read Delaware Senate race threads.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 05, 2015 11:54 AM (659DL)

120 Social justice and consideration of others requires circumscription of speech for the common good of a progressive society. And until you troublesome and outmoded yokels with your intolerant beliefs can be retrained or replaced, other methods of behavior enforcement may be necessary.

It is a shame when these emergencies happen, but our side never allows a crisis to go to waste.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at May 05, 2015 11:55 AM (h3U2l)

121 I'm saddened they don't appreciate the creativity and artistic talents of artists needing to self express their emotional and talented responses to fight against totalitarian culture .

Where's the Support!

Posted by: comrade willow at May 05, 2015 11:55 AM (nqBYe)

122 "make your own non-alcoholic margarita" bar Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM

I know what each of those words means, but I have no idea what they mean in that order.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2015 11:56 AM (h4vJk)

123 Pam Geller Johnson is right!

Posted by: Count de Monet Johnson at May 05, 2015 11:56 AM (JO9+V)

124 "ID'd as Andrew Breitbart's laptop and then refused to admit he was wrong.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 05, 2015 11:48 AM (7ObY1)

My personal favorite is when he went totally batshit insane thinking that the Tennessee State Flag was some kind of Nazi Flag.Good Times

Posted by: Luap Nor's last brain cell at May 05, 2015 11:56 AM (U7H1n)

125 And until you troublesome and outmoded yokels with your intolerant beliefs can be retrained or replaced, other
methods of behavior enforcement may be necessary.

^^^^
There's the hill they'll die on.

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:56 AM (YlaKl)

126 Hey NeverGiveUp, I posted this in the ONT last night, but wasn't sure if you saw it. I expect you could get a lot of business installing these things.

Moron Lifestyle-compliant dental implants: http://tinyurl.com/kgdapz8

Posted by: Country Singer at May 05, 2015 11:54 AM (8hctH)

Thanks. Never saw that. In this Country, if we did that, we'd get sued for Malpractice and lose our license.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 05, 2015 11:57 AM (rDqRv)

127 125 And until you troublesome and outmoded yokels with your intolerant beliefs can be retrained or replaced, other
methods of behavior enforcement may be necessary.

^^^^
There's the hill they'll die on.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 11:56 AM (YlaKl)

It's the hill they want to kill us on.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 05, 2015 11:57 AM (2Ojst)

128 107 There's a "make your own non-alcoholic margarita" bar in the breakroom.

I feel I need to go out for Pad Thai.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:52 AM (ZKzrr)

Be sure to drink a couple bottles of Singha too.

Posted by: joncelli, Boned like You at May 05, 2015 11:57 AM (RD7QR)

129 Why the lack of support when artists showing The suppression of women ! Gays! Hierarchy! Patriarchy! Slavery! By a Religious Prophet!

Posted by: comrade willow at May 05, 2015 11:57 AM (nqBYe)

130 proceed to nood

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 05, 2015 11:58 AM (Ng9V+)

131 If no one else has thought of this (and I find that hard to believe), why don't we all agree that a smiley face

is the True And Right Face Of Mohammad?

It would immediately convert all blogs and comment threads into supporterrs of unqualified free speech, plus it would make most of those annoying fucking smiley-faces disappear.

Win-win.

Posted by: jwpaine at May 05, 2015 11:58 AM (0bXhD)

132 "The Judges of the Supreme Court said so, and everyone agreed."

Every Constitutional amendment after the 10th, and every Supreme Court decision, should be repealed. Start over.

Posted by: despair at May 05, 2015 11:58 AM (J6suc)

133 I feel I need to go out for ~~Pad Thai~~a bottle of tequila.

And I'm not sharing it with the rest of the class.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at May 05, 2015 11:58 AM (ZKzrr)

134 69 reposting from morning thread icymi

Speech given by Geert Wilders at Draw Mohammed gathering. Video and transcript.

"...Your statement, my statement, the statement of every single person present in this room here tonight is clear: We will never allow barbarism, we will never allow Islam to rob us of our freedom of speech! Never!..."

c/o Gates of Vienna
http://bit.ly/geert-texas
Posted by: We Are All Pam's Boobs at May 05, 2015 11:41 AM (9K3Nr)

* points and screeches a la Body Snatchers *

Posted by: Chuckles Johnson at May 05, 2015 11:58 AM (l3LvV)

135 Pam Geller Johnson is right!
Posted by: Count de Monet Johnson

I agree with Count de Monet Johnson!
-Big Johnson

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 05, 2015 12:00 PM (YlaKl)

136
This place suffers from a serious shortage of...puppehs!

Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 12:00 PM (iQIUe)

137 Pentagon to spend 700 mil to shield Cheyenne Mountain Complex and make it less vulnerable to a massive electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack.

http://tinyurl.com/p2q8wls

Posted by: wrg500 at May 05, 2015 12:01 PM (S+el1)

138 My interoperation of this sort of thing, as in the tweet I quoted above, is that the person is too chickenshit to say, "I would never condemn radical Islamists" in part because they are not up to the pushback/debate about WHY they, personally, would not do it.

It's the weasel's way out, imho.

Just say it and be prepared to defend it.

There are many reasons why you might not participate in the sort of things Geller and Wilders do.

One might be that you are afraid, either for your safety or your livelihood. That's valid, especially in today's climate.

Another might be that you don't fundamentally see Islam as a religion that is so intolerant it leads its most devout followers to commit violent and evil acts. I think that's a naive view of Islam, but I'm not going to judge. If your view of religions in general is so pollyanna, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's out of some well-intended interoperation of Christ's teachings or something.

Yet another reason might be that people like Geller make you "uncomfortable" or embarrassed. OK, that's fine. People like Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney make ME uncomfortable and embarrassed. We all have our social set we like and those we don't like.

But just be friggin' honest.

Do not declare Geller to be crazy. It is clearly untrue. And it's victim-blaming and shameful.

Posted by: Y-not at May 05, 2015 12:03 PM (9BRsg)

139 I'll defend Pam Geller. We should do more to annoy and offend muslims. Create a hostile environment for them, and they might go away and leave us alone without us having to become more ... insistent.

Posted by: despair at May 05, 2015 12:04 PM (J6suc)

140 Don't know why autocorrect turned interpretation into interoperation but whatever.

Posted by: Y-not at May 05, 2015 12:04 PM (9BRsg)

141 It's funny that the left still hates Chas. Johnson.

Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 12:05 PM (iQIUe)

142 Posted by: Luap Nor's last brain cell at May 05, 2015 11:56 AM (U7H1n)

I'll never get over him claiming that he genuinely could not be certain that Anthony Weiner's dick picks weren't in fact HIS OWN dick picks.

Yes, he was defending Weiner so hard, he was even willing to claim it was his own unit what done the dirty work.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at May 05, 2015 12:06 PM (tuPiK)

143 Test

Mohammad

is watching.

Posted by: jwpaine at May 05, 2015 12:07 PM (0bXhD)

144 Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 12:05 PM (iQIUe)

Serves him right.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at May 05, 2015 12:09 PM (tuPiK)

145 HR braucht ein Bier @ 71 said, "You realize that's why proggs and Muslims want Geller to die, right?"

Forget them, I'm trying to stiffen the spines of too many on our own side. As for the proggies, every word from their mouths is a lie.

Which leads me to Heralder @ 77 who said, "You know, living in a very blue area and being very familiar with
leftist thinking, I still can't f**king understand how their brain
operates completely devoid of logic."

Your problem is you, like most of our side, try engaging what they say and decide they aren't rational. Witness the frequent memes on our team that they are crazy, delusional, etc. They operate under a disadvantage they have flipped, that even now the vast majority of the country rejects their ideas and they would be physically driven out of the land if they were to come out and be honest. So they obfuscate, take positions that contradict and keep people confused. But forget what they say, look at the pattern of what they DO over time. Not crazy, Evil.

The greatest lie is that the devil doesn't exist. Many of the left's footsoldiers don't even know which side they are fighting on, they too are deceived. But the leaders know. Look at their policies. Each of the Ten Commandments ends up inverted in their proposed utopia. Not just some of them, with others just written off, each of them exactly inverted. Ten for ten isn't a accident. What we face is nothing less than a devil cult that got started at Harvard[1] a long time ago and didn't get cleaned out in time.

Before writing what I just wrote as another 'wrong' Internet crank, ponder this question: Does my theory have better predictive power than whatever explanation for the Left you use?

[1] Some say it started in Europe and came over instead of starting here and going back. Who cares. What difference, at this point, does it make? None.

Posted by: John Morris at May 05, 2015 12:10 PM (JiDdW)

146 My personal favorite is when he went totally batshit insane thinking that the Tennessee State Flag was some kind of Nazi Flag.Good Times

LOL, yep, that one was a classic.

One blogger, so much fail!

Posted by: Citizen X at May 05, 2015 12:10 PM (7ObY1)

147
I love the idea of tail driven vehicles:

https://goo.gl/pGvtmB

Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 12:13 PM (iQIUe)

148 I figure it is only a matter of time before Congress places a fee on free speech. They will call the bill "The TANSTAAFS Act". CJ Roberts will rule it a tax and give it a pass. Justice Alito will write a dissenting opinion saying the act title defames Italian-Americans.

Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at May 05, 2015 12:14 PM (uPxUo)

149 "Sure People Have A Right To Speech But....."

Shut up, RINO!

"Do not declare Geller to be crazy. It is clearly untrue."

I think she is crazy, even if she's right on this. Just because she's right on this important issue doesn't mean we should lose sight and start declaring every dumb thing she said retroactively right.

"It's funny that the left still hates Chas. Johnson."

My favorite thing about yesterday is his tweet about not wanting to rush to judgement, even when things were clear and the Right was pointing out his stupidity. I guess he wanted to Teach the Controversy.

Posted by: Shoot Me at May 05, 2015 12:25 PM (EQcfE)

150 91 "They are pre-emptively condemning the speech and declaring it unworthy of consideration. Once they've done that, banning it altogether is only a small formality."

There are certainly people who think "everything I disagree with should be banned" but those people broadcast those sentiments when speaking about free speech. As in the original argument, they say things like "maybe we should ban speech that offends."

In other words, these types of people are saying "I disagree with this speech and therefore..." instead of "I disagree with this speech, but..." As was pointed out in the thread, I'm not so sure that just because I disagree with someone means that I want to prevent that person from speaking.

104 "No, the comment isn't on the speech being awful. It's on the PERSON being awful. It's a form of victim-blaming and it sucks balls."

In the original post, Drew stated "the quality of the person speaking AND the content of their speech isn't at issue." Even if we eliminate the attack on the person, Drew still objects to prefacing an argument in support of free speech with the clause "Even though I disagree with what he's saying..."

106 "Yes, and that's the problem. The speech isn't awful. Pam Geller isn't awful. She's honestly portraying islam. I want to see a headline that says "Pam Geller is Right." because that is the truth."

So when we agree with the content of the speech, we shouldn't say that we disagree with the content of the speech? I suppose that's pretty sound. How about when we actually DO disagree with the content of the speech?

Posted by: Saddam Who's Sane at May 05, 2015 12:27 PM (mkprf)

151
Video of the entire event:

http://goo.gl/85zdyK

Posted by: Bruce J at May 05, 2015 12:34 PM (iQIUe)

152 Just read the article on CNN by Haroon Moghul. I won't link to it because ... CNN. But it's wonderfull how he speaks for ALL American Mooselimbs. And there are no radical Mooselimbs here in America. They All Reject Violence.....yada yada yada.

I was surprised he was getting some backlash from the CNN comments.

Posted by: Paladin at May 05, 2015 12:42 PM (DPvCq)

153 Give me a thousand Pam Gellers and this war will be over quickly.

Posted by: General Dissension at May 05, 2015 12:42 PM (1Y+hH)

154 I swear to God I'll pistol whip the next guy who says "Shenanigans."

Posted by: Wayne Waters at May 05, 2015 12:50 PM (z6enJ)

155 Sure people have a right not to die in concentration camps, but did those Jews REALLY need those gold teeth?

Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at May 05, 2015 01:01 PM (aA2hG)

156 11 So is it racist to have tacos today?

On Taco Tuesday? It's racist NOT to.

But not THIS Tuesday - check the date.

Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at May 05, 2015 01:02 PM (aA2hG)

157 So is "No Justice, No Peace" considered "fighting words" and can I go bag me some hobos in the area using this as my cover?

Posted by: Reality Man at May 05, 2015 01:22 PM (9AQdP)

158 so you disagree with Geller ? nice to know moron ...

Posted by: KaiserDerden at May 05, 2015 01:37 PM (k5jE4)

159 Ace bitch-slapped people like Saddam (mkprf) @150 in the new post. And it is epic.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at May 05, 2015 02:06 PM (9BRsg)

160 *sigh*

I apologize, Y-not, for trying to understand what Drew was trying to argue.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is for pussies.

Real men just keep it to "I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Happy?

Posted by: Saddam Who's Sane at May 05, 2015 02:13 PM (mkprf)

161 If the First Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, it will protect all of you.

Posted by: Larry Flynt at May 05, 2015 02:54 PM (5fSr7)

162 Pam Geller is RIGHT.

One of the very few who have the courage to speak the truth about islam.

But I guess "we mustn't be beastly to the Nazis," as Noel Coward would say. but hey, the BBC banned his satirical song back in the day, so this bullshit is nothing new!

"Don't let's be beastly to the Germans
When our victory is ultimately won,
It was just those nasty Nazis who persuaded them to fight,
And their Beethoven and Bach are really far worse than their bite!
Let's be meek to them,
And turn the other cheek to them,
And try to bring out their latent sense of fun!
Let's give them full air parity,
And treat the rats with charity --
But don't let's be beastly to the Hun!"

You can see Noel (who was a staunch English patriot during the Second World War) doing this song on Youtube. It was one of Churchill's favorites.

And "Auntie Bebe" banned it. But of course. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Posted by: Beverly at May 05, 2015 04:49 PM (rRW+/)

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