Baltimore Headlines

Sheriff: I was told to stand down during riots.

Obviously. We saw the cops standing down and retreating from rioters.

"I was sick to my stomach like everybody else. … This was urban warfare, no question about it. They were coming in absolutely beaten down. The [city officers] got out of their vehicles, thanked us profusely for being there, apologized to us for having to be there. They said we could have handled this, we were very capable of handling this, but we were told to stand down, repeatedly told to stand down," he said. "I had never heard that order come from anyone -- we went right out to our posts as soon as we got there, so I never heard the mayor say that. But repeatedly these guys, and there were many high-ranking officials from the Baltimore City Police Department … and these guys told me they were essentially neutered from the start. They were spayed from the start. They were told to stand down, you will not take any action, let them destroy property. I couldn’t believe it, I'm a 31-year veteran of law enforcement. … I had never heard anything like this before in my life and these guys obviously aren't gonna speak out and the more I thought about this, … I had to say a few things. I apologize if I’ve upset people, but I believe in saying it like it is."

Freddie Gray was killed, initial investigations find, by a blow to the head in the back of the prison transport van.

An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.
Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.
Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear.

As you've probably heard, it is suspected that Gray was the recipient of a so-called "rough ride," an extrajudicial punishment by which police handcuff a suspect -- but do not secure him to a seat with seatbelts -- and then toss him around the back of a police van by taking corners hard, driving over bumpy roads, etc.

This much-linked Washington Post story reports on a prisoner claiming that Gray was pounding his head on the inside of the police van, like he was trying to harm himself. But let's be serious, prisoners have enormous incentives to make up things that will be useful to their captors.

Tavis Smiley says riots could be "the new normal," calling the resort to mass violence, strangely, "a dignity thing."

Posted by: Ace at 06:02 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1
If he hadnt stood up and faced the back of the van he wd have been alive.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:04 PM (iQIUe)

2 The world can end now. It's already broken beyond repair.

Posted by: Null at April 30, 2015 06:04 PM (xjpRj)

3
Werent riots the norm the beginning of the 20th century? There were all the labor riots, the anarchist riots, the Palmer raids riots, the commie vs Americans riots...

Before the bad guy at least got a good beating.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:06 PM (iQIUe)

4 Not murder but could be manslaughter

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 30, 2015 06:06 PM (Bn6aD)

5 The scales are tipping....

Posted by: Diogenes at April 30, 2015 06:06 PM (08Znv)

6 Wilding incident in charleston that didn't make the Charlotte news. Big stink was a college sent out an alert with the physical description of the group instead of being PC.

Posted by: NCKate at April 30, 2015 06:07 PM (Yohtk)

7 But repeatedly these guys, and there were many high-ranking officials from the Baltimore City Police Department and these guys told me they were essentially neutered from the start. They were spayed from the start.

*****************************

Well, if the new reality show doesn't work out, I guess I could always join the Baltimore PD.

Posted by: Bruce Jenner at April 30, 2015 06:07 PM (xkSSa)

8 Dignified looting is called for, gents.

Posted by: Tavis 'peen polisher' Smiley at April 30, 2015 06:08 PM (MYPM9)

9
most police paddy wagons don't have seat belts because they can be used as weapons

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:08 PM (lKyWE)

10
May they be consumed by the conflagration that they themselves have started.

Let It Burn.

Posted by: Joe Mama at April 30, 2015 06:09 PM (BXVvA)

11 I think it'd despicable for anyone to try to put a positive spin on riots. How about if they all go to your house and burn it down, Tavis. Not o.k.?. but it's o.k as long as someone else's property gets burned to serve a larger agenda?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:09 PM (DXzRD)

12 What I found interesting was that the prisoner who gave that statement was kept anonymous by the police department...for the prisoners safety. When has that happened before? Usually....his entire arrest record would have been spilled.

Posted by: Anonymous for your safety... at April 30, 2015 06:10 PM (p2b/e)

13 extrajudicial punishment

iow a crime.

Posted by: X at April 30, 2015 06:10 PM (n5fTN)

14 Mostly peaceful protests for all.

Obama gave this country so much damn racial healing that we don't know what to do with it

Posted by: The Dude at April 30, 2015 06:10 PM (SyKbw)

15 But repeatedly these guys, and there were many high-ranking officials from the Baltimore City Police Department and these guys told me they were essentially neutered from the start. They were spayed from the start.

**************************

Oh please. Stop your bitching. They should make high heels an official part of the uniform, to condition them properly.

Posted by: Gen. Peggy Combs at April 30, 2015 06:10 PM (xkSSa)

16 There we were, in the back of the speeding van, bouncing like happy fun balls....

Posted by: Brian Williams at April 30, 2015 06:10 PM (MYPM9)

17 Nothing says dignity like stolen pringles

Posted by: Mr.KnowItAll at April 30, 2015 06:10 PM (uJK1E)

18 Keep this in mind, all of you who claim the cops would never force us into box cars; or would never confiscate our guns. You are seeing it, right here, right now. These officers KNEW this to be a bullshit, nearly illegal order, AND THEY FOLLOWED IT, ANYWAY. Not my house being looted. Not my car being burned. Fuck it, the boss stand by, so we'll stand by.

Posted by: chiefjaybob at April 30, 2015 06:10 PM (cgH9o)

19 What jerks my chain is that there riots are being organized and coordinated by the same out of town commies that moved into Ferguson. They originate from communist front groups in Oakland and Chicago and the worthless Democrat Mayors and politicians are not doing a damn thing about it.

They arrest these THUGS throw them in jail for a couple of hours and then turn them lose. Why can not the professional rioters be charged with insurrection?

Democrat is why. The Mayor of the urban shithole has a vested interest in these THUGS.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 06:11 PM (wlDny)

20 Would it change your mind if it was discovered that Gray had a history of head banging? He certainly looks the type.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:11 PM (iQIUe)

21 We're makin' a comeback. The New Normal Tour.
Bang your head muthafucka!

Posted by: Quiet Riot at April 30, 2015 06:11 PM (Q/rld)

22 So what's going on in philly? CNN is showing 'protests' there as well...

Posted by: Lea at April 30, 2015 06:11 PM (1QvRy)

23 So, mass violence is a dignity thing eh? Gawd, do these people actually get paid to think up this bullsh*t?

Posted by: Diogenes at April 30, 2015 06:11 PM (08Znv)

24 Gray was the recipient of a so-called "rough ride,"

***************************

My spine is just fine, thank you very much.

Posted by: Teddy Roosevelt at April 30, 2015 06:11 PM (xkSSa)

25
so where are the witnessses that saw a speeding police van flying through the nieghborhood?

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:12 PM (lKyWE)

26 22 So what's going on in philly? CNN is showing 'protests' there as well...

Protesters gotta riot.... I mean protest...

Mama needs a new pair a shoes baby!

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 30, 2015 06:12 PM (Bn6aD)

27 Yeah the whole dignity thing is just the extension of the get violent over every "dis" culture.

Way to promote the worst of us, Tavis you ass.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at April 30, 2015 06:12 PM (i7JE3)

28 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 08:25 AM (VPLuQ)

--------

Looking forward to the comments from this brain trust on this post!

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:12 PM (2UpXV)

29 Tavis Smiley says riots could be "the new normal," calling the resort to mass violence, strangely, "a dignity thing."

**************************************

Well, of course they will be if the MSM and DOJ are allowed to keep pulling this shit. But it's not inevitable.

Posted by: Sunni LeBeouf at April 30, 2015 06:12 PM (xkSSa)

30 Gray was the recipient of a so-called "rough ride,"

----

Count me in!

Posted by: Reggie at April 30, 2015 06:13 PM (MYPM9)

31 It's more of a donk's forgetting who their constituents are thing. Feral bad kids should not get used to being able to throw rocks at passing cars and being murderous jackasses.

Baltimore has a LOT of crime and I doubt it's coming from the workers at the under armour factory.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at April 30, 2015 06:13 PM (qyobn)

32 9 most police paddy wagons don't have seat belts because they can be used as weapons
Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:08 PM (lKyWE)

---------------------------------------

Do they chain them to the bench?

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:13 PM (iQIUe)

33 I can't wait till the riot breaks out in Milwaukee and Madison :/

Posted by: The Dude at April 30, 2015 06:13 PM (SyKbw)

34 Gonna be a long, hot summer

Posted by: Mr.KnowItAll at April 30, 2015 06:13 PM (uJK1E)

35 Mayor Daley shakes his head, speechless in Hell.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at April 30, 2015 06:14 PM (U8sWC)

36 So much for the mayor's attempts to claim that she wasn't talking about "space to destroy" as good.

Posted by: Buzzion at April 30, 2015 06:14 PM (DSr10)

37 Let's all gather at Tavis Smiley's house. See how he feels then.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 06:14 PM (zRby/)

38
riots can much more coordinated and spread much fasternow with modern technology.

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:14 PM (lKyWE)

39 The response to mass violence will inevitably be ordinary citizens taking time out to vote against it.

From the rooftops.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at April 30, 2015 06:15 PM (YEelc)

40 Glad I live in a red state, red city, red neighboorhood.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 30, 2015 06:15 PM (MYPM9)

41 Oh, why can't Tavis be more like his happier and more inspiring brother, Guy?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 30, 2015 06:15 PM (KhFZp)

42 Anytime is usually a good time to avoid going into downtown Seattle, but tomorrow will be an exceptionally good time to not go there.
Seattle loves it's May Day. Kind of a coming of age. All those good little protesters...who have no clue why they are there, but damn its sure fun huh???!!!
Assho*es.

Posted by: Diogenes at April 30, 2015 06:15 PM (08Znv)

43 It wouldn't matter if they hung these cops they're still gonna "protest."

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 30, 2015 06:15 PM (Bn6aD)

44 You ever try to actually watch an episode of Tavis Smiley? The four or five times I've tried I wanted to throw a brick through the TV, it's all so egregiously leftist propaganda.

Of course it's even better knowing my tax dollars are funding his Pravda misadventures.

Posted by: Kate58 at April 30, 2015 06:15 PM (oLZsm)

45 Thanks, Mayor.

Posted by: CVS Corporate Communications Dept. at April 30, 2015 06:16 PM (8ZskC)

46
Do they chain them to the bench?

i don't think they can do that anymore

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:16 PM (lKyWE)

47 Glad I live in a red state, red city, red neighboorhood.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson

You live on a reservation, cousin?

Posted by: Elizabeth 'High Cheeks Ruffled Feathers' Warren at April 30, 2015 06:17 PM (MYPM9)

48 I thought it very strange that the ratio of injured police and reporters was a one to one ratio as reported by news sources. Then suddenly the Mayors office announces there were 10X as many arrests?

I'm wondering who to believe, the cops on the street and veteran reporters, or a woc in a baseball cap.

Posted by: Emotional Protestor at April 30, 2015 06:17 PM (xQX/f)

49 I can't wait till the riot breaks out in Milwaukee and Madison :/

Posted by: The Dude at April 30, 2015 06:13 PM (SyKbw)
----------I don't think the Madison riots will hold a candle to the Milwaukee riots. To use a car analogy, it's the difference between tipping a Prius over and setting a County Bus on fire. They're already averaging what, 2-3 murders a week in Milwaukee? I don't think Madison brats are much to worry about. IMO

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:17 PM (2UpXV)

50 I'm not sure why the other prisoner's testimony should be immediately discounted.

What he gains from lying pales compared to the retribution he may face from the currently rioting community.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 06:17 PM (MYCIw)

51 If you are wearing a mask, you are a fucking bandit, unless you are on a ski slope.
Arrest everyone in a mask. Don't wait for them to throw a rock.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 06:18 PM (JgC5a)

52 Gray was the recipient of a so-called "rough ride,"

Unless you've ever ridden 100 miles in the back of a van after a burrito lunch at Chipotle you can't imagine how bad it can be.

#HillaryIsJustLikeYou

Posted by: Sir Hillary Edmund Rodham Clinton at April 30, 2015 06:18 PM (8ZskC)

53 Smiley? A Droog perchance?

May Tavis get introduced to his 'new normal' most emphatically.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 06:19 PM (CwVOr)

54
prisoners trying to hurt themselves in county lock ups is by no means rare.they actually have special suits they put them in to prevent them from doing it

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:19 PM (lKyWE)

55 If you are wearing a mask, you are a fucking bandit, unless you are on a ski slope.
Arrest everyone in a mask. Don't wait for them to throw a rock.
Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 06:18 PM (JgC5a)

*********************************

Um, excuse me?

Posted by: Batman at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (xkSSa)

56 Apple core!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (MYPM9)

57 It does not matter one bit how he died or what any investigation will reveal anymore.
The race batters and the media have already taken over, and those that want to riot will do so. Regardless of any outcome.
Doesn't matter if we publicly executed any cops involved in his arrested. They won't be happy until something horrible happens in another city so they can do the same there.

Posted by: Felonious Monk at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (1S9oZ)

58
If you are wearing a mask, you are a fucking bandit, unless you are on a ski slope.

Arrest everyone in a mask. Don't wait for them to throw a rock.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 06:18 PM (JgC5a)

Better still, read the Riot Act, declare an unlawful assembly, and advise the mob, that within a minute, police snipers will be given orders to open fire on all perps in masks, and that head shots will be taken.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (+/fKe)

59
Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:17 PM (2UpXV)

doesn't take too long to hop the 94 to get between Madison Wisconsin

Posted by: The Dude at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (SyKbw)

60 like he was trying to harm himself. But let's be serious, prisoners have enormous incentives to make up things that will be useful to their captors.

well ace, watch the arrest video.

Then watch the CNN anderson cooper interview with a "friend of one of the officers suspended"

the guy was in a police cruiser driving behind the paddy wagon. Said it stopped once because the driver needed assistance in securing the prisoner, as he was bouncing around in the back screaming and being "irate."

Then they picked up a second prisoner, dropped them both off at jail. This guy said his friend the cop was in the cruiser behind the paddy wagon the entire time (so there would presumably be dash cam footage).

We'll see if its true, but I mean... I don't know, I'm starting to believe maybe this was some kind of freak accident and maybe the cops didn't rough him up.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (AkOaV)

61 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:12 PM (2UpXV)

I have no intention of going back and reading something from 8;30 this morning, and perhaps it's not the best idea to sneeringly refer to people as being part of "brain trust" when your handle is "imbecile". I skipped over the fight argument between you and another poster because i don't read everything here (just not enough time).

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:21 PM (DXzRD)

62 Madison and Milwaukee*

Posted by: The Dude at April 30, 2015 06:21 PM (SyKbw)

63 Well, if the new reality show doesn't work out, I guess I could always join the Baltimore PD.
Posted by: Bruce Jenner at April 30, 2015 06:07 PM (xkSSa)

Once you lose the junk you realize we're gonna pay you 22% less?

Posted by: Baltimore PD at April 30, 2015 06:22 PM (xQX/f)

64 Arrest everyone in a ~~mask~~ dreads. Don't wait for them to ~~throw a rock~~ pop a cap.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 06:18 PM (JgC5a)

Fixed.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 06:22 PM (48QDY)

65 I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting in the back of a van in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me.

Posted by: Brian Williams at April 30, 2015 06:22 PM (F2IAQ)

66 "let's be serious, prisoners have enormous incentives to make up things that will be useful to their captors."

True. But I'm hearing he was being held on a very minor thing, something you can't plea down. So not sure how incentivized he was to tell lies.

Posted by: Fen at April 30, 2015 06:22 PM (zhb21)

67 What good is all the riot gear and APCs if you ain't gonna use them?

Oh yeah, that's right. Those are for dog killing duty.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at April 30, 2015 06:22 PM (U8sWC)

68 Better still, read the Riot Act, declare an unlawful assembly, and advise the mob, that within a minute, police snipers will be given orders to open fire on all perps in masks, and that head shots will be taken.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon

And then only give them 30 seconds.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson: sick of criminals being excused at April 30, 2015 06:22 PM (MYPM9)

69 If you are wearing a mask, you are a fucking bandit, unless you are on a ski slope.

Arrest everyone in a mask. Don't wait for them to throw a rock.

Those red and blue handkerchief masks marked the crips and bloods according to one of those Fox interviews the other night.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 06:23 PM (ahBY0)

70 So like I thought would happen, the awesome mom that schooled her kid attempting to riot is now being accused of "beating" him. *glares at media*

Not that smaller women cannot dole out their fair share of abuse when instigated. *eyes AtC* But really...we have hooligans robbing and attacking people openly, and SHE's the bad guy?! Her kid even said he gets why she did it and she was right.

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 06:23 PM (yRwC8)

71 Tavis Smiley be a travesty. He be irritatin' me pass the Tavist-D. Yo.

Posted by: Snoop Dogg at April 30, 2015 06:23 PM (xkSSa)

72 You live on a reservation, cousin?

Posted by: Elizabeth 'High Cheeks Ruffled Feathers' Warren at April 30, 2015 06:17

Probably the Best Little House on the Prairie...

Posted by: Diogenes at April 30, 2015 06:23 PM (08Znv)

73 Too much of this s**t and people will demand order... one way or another.

Posted by: The Political Hat at April 30, 2015 06:23 PM (0Ew3K)

74 I see that good old Smilin' Al Sharpton has decided break into the action. That mayor just can't seem to stop stepping on her dick.

Posted by: Old Blue at April 30, 2015 06:23 PM (9iR5/)

75 Sure, the other prisoner could be making it up. He could be telling the truth. Fact is it won't matter whatever facts come out.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 06:24 PM (ttJ2z)

76 But if you want to post it again, this member of the "brain trust"will read it. Of course it's really not helpful out of context.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:24 PM (DXzRD)

77 75 Sure, the other prisoner could be making it up. He could be telling the truth. Fact is it won't matter whatever facts come out.

See: Ferguson...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 30, 2015 06:24 PM (Bn6aD)

78 When I lived in Baltimore the police chief was forced to resign. Why you ask? Because a mid twenties, thin, Black male was holding up people at gunpoint at bus stops. The police put out a description that described the suspect as a Black male. That outrageous racist description of a dangerous suspect was too much and the chief apologized and stepped down. Meanwhile, every single night PBS ran histories of Black oppression. I found out that Blacks were still being lynched in the South even now. Something I did not know coming from Texas.
Oh, and I am a White guy and while working in a Baltimore hospital one of the Black staff physicians did not talk to White people. She simply walked away from them and you had to talk to one of her residents. Treated as a normal thing.
I learned how much racism is in the Black community while living in MD and the NE. I think about 40-45% of Black folks in the USA are rabid racists and get a complete pass on it.

Posted by: Daybrother at April 30, 2015 06:24 PM (NHtMs)

79 Well, this just means that we need to end the public employee unions, especially the police unions.

Right, lefties?

Right?

Posted by: AmishDude at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (L2xDv)

80 56 Apple core! Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (MYPM9)

-------------------------

Use to love that.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (iQIUe)

81 I'm beginning to think there aren't any good guys in this story...

Posted by: Oedipus sizing up Kelly Brook's Glorious Ta-Tas at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (CXLVd)

82
"let's be serious, prisoners have enormous incentives to make up things that will be useful to their captors."

there are also enormous incentives not to help the police,helping police means they might go lighter on you it also means you just might get your ass beaten up in a holding cell

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (lKyWE)

83 I see that good old Smilin' Al Sharpton has decided break into the action. That mayor just can't seem to stop stepping on her dick.
Posted by: Old Blue
--------

The pressers have been embarrassing to watch.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (F2IAQ)

84 come on, guys, how is this different from, like, the Warsaw Ghetto uprising? I'm sure Travis Smiley can explain it to you.

Posted by: mallfly at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (qSIlh)

85
Alberta Oil Peon , you are such a liberal pansy...

Giving them a warning about the snipers and headshots...////

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (uhftQ)

86 That's the idea isn't it? though ti was planed that way. Enough cr**p happens and is people demand the govt do something . Voila-instant dictatorship.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (DXzRD)

87 Please, leave me out of any "brain trust."
Last one I was in, I lost everything.

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at April 30, 2015 06:26 PM (TPjwz)

88 86 Sorry for all the typos.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:27 PM (DXzRD)

89 When I lived in Baltimore the police chief was forced to resign.
----------------

Before or after the mayor was jailed?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 06:27 PM (F2IAQ)

90 then toss him around the back of a police van by taking corners hard, driving over bumpy roads, etc.

How many street cameras does Baltimore have?

Bumpy roads serious enough to hurt people would destroy the van. Alternating swerving and sharp braking would shake any unsecured person up enough for gravity to do its work as our oldest enemy.

Posted by: DaveA at April 30, 2015 06:27 PM (DL2i+)

91 >>riots : dignity thing.

Holocaust : cleanliness thing.

Posted by: Zombie Himmler at April 30, 2015 06:28 PM (A0UYZ)

92 Chicago here: our wagons (can't call them paddy wagons anymore, natch) have arm bars that secure you like a roller coaster. Pretty sure this is the norm.

Posted by: Cathy at April 30, 2015 06:28 PM (g09X6)

93
There is some big sooper sekrit "aktion" in Ferguson tonight.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:28 PM (iQIUe)

94 Yeah, when I was an MP, we used to call them "brake checks". And maybe that's what happened here, but that won't be hard to decipher given the number of street cameras in B-more.

It's also true that prisoners will try to injure themselves in an effort to get a ride to the hospital rather than the lockup. They'll do all sorts of things to not be placed in general population.

Don't dismiss the possibility that Gray caused Gray's death.

Posted by: bkeyser at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (dG7DS)

95 riots : dignity thing.

Holocaust : cleanliness thing.

Posted by: Zombie Himmler at April 30, 2015 06:28 PM (A0UYZ)

The Dangers of a Constitutional 'Right to Dignity'

http://tinyurl.com/npegufj

Posted by: The Political Hat at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (0Ew3K)

96

I think Freddie was screaming and causing a ruckus in the back of the van

And they got tired of hearing it, stopped the van, and tooled him up so to speak

That's prolly when they threw him in the back of the van and he hit the bolt

Posted by: ThunderB at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (zOTsN)

97 professional rioters

An ObamaJob success story.

Posted by: DaveA at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (DL2i+)

98 I keep waiting for some astute reporter to ask the mayor if moral and political corruption might be playing a part in this whole thing.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (F2IAQ)

99 I keep waiting for some astute reporter to ask the mayor if moral and political corruption might be playing a part in this whole thing.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (F2IAQ)

100 Let It Burn.

Posted by: Mayor Stephanie Rawlings at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (oG53/)

101
every ride in a police paddywagon is rough because they don't have shocks or a good suspension.they are bare bones

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:29 PM (lKyWE)

102 Presdent Obama should do something about this to find out if a person of no color was invovled.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 30, 2015 06:30 PM (Sd++4)

103 Those businesses that were destroyed are not getting their property restored to them. The larger businesses, like CVS, can sustain the losses, but not the small ones.

And even if they had property insurance, it won't do them any good, because insurance policies typically do not cover losses caused by rioting or civil unrest (unless you buy a special, very expensive rider to cover that).

So that stupid black lady mayor, who essentially gave the looters and thieves permission to destroy and steal millions of dollars' worth of other people's property in service to their perpetual sense of "victimhood," has made new, real victims out of hundreds of innocent business owners, whose lives she has ruined.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 30, 2015 06:30 PM (lmdHn)

104 who knows about the kid, eh?

The fact that they were told to stand down tells you that the city wanted a white resident to kill a rioter for a local St. Trayvon.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at April 30, 2015 06:30 PM (qyobn)

105
Goat farm for free! Comes with goats, 3 bedroom house, and a dog:

http://goo.gl/bgPI7u

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:30 PM (iQIUe)

106 MIke, the Mayor or Al stepping on it?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 06:30 PM (CwVOr)

107 In the good news department, they found that those villagers
in Kazakhstan suffering from the strange sleeping sickness
experience sexual cravings, engage in foul mouth rants and
have visions of Monsters.

Hell, those are your average morons every day...

Posted by: Bill Clinton at April 30, 2015 06:30 PM (q1lMK)

108 Posted by: Daybrother at April 30, 2015 06:24 PM (NHtMs)

Most racist people I've ever dealt with.

Don't get me wrong. I've crossed my share of white racists. Local Native Americans have a chip, too.

But the worst have been black.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 06:30 PM (48QDY)

109 Before or after the mayor was jailed?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. or his cat
--------

This was 5 or 6 years before that.

Posted by: Daybrother at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (NHtMs)

110 The reason we have riots so often now is because we are releasing so many violent criminals early and not giving long sentences to violent criminals.

This leaves more violent and mentally ill ppl roaming the streets and causing trouble.

The prison population has been declining steadily since 2011 as the states and feds started undoing the Tough on Crime policies enacted in the 80s and 90s.

We have more riots now because we have more violent ppl roaming the streets of America's cities.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (ZPrif)

111 The reason we have riots so often now is because we are releasing so many violent criminals early and not giving long sentences to violent criminals.

This leaves more violent and mentally ill ppl roaming the streets and causing trouble.

The prison population has been declining steadily since 2011 as the states and feds started undoing the Tough on Crime policies enacted in the 80s and 90s.

We have more riots now because we have more violent ppl roaming the streets of America's cities.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (ZPrif)

112 Let's not forget that this is all probably a complex plot by a group of wealthy Semitic bankers.

Posted by: Pon Raul at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (MYPM9)

113 Bezos' rocket really does look remarkably like a giant penis.

Not sure what to think of the detachable tip.

Posted by: legs crossed at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (evTiy)

114 It's a good damned thing that Obama is such a uniter.

Can you imagine how things would be if he was the opposite?

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (BZAd3)

115 These accounts of the B'more cops standing down certainly give the lie to that old snark, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

Right?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (+/fKe)

116
So was this mostly black police in the arrest?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (ODxAs)

117 Arrest everyone in a mask. Don't wait for them to throw a rock.
Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 06:18 PM (JgC5a)
*********************************
Um, excuse me?
Posted by: Batman at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (xkSSa)
That won't include thick-rimmed eyeglasses, will it?

Posted by: Superman at April 30, 2015 06:32 PM (kivUY)

118 The police standown rumor tracks perfectly with the Breitbart report that night of police standing by while families were being assaulted, despite yelled requests to nearby, and within eyesight of criminal activity uniformed Police Officers.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:32 PM (VPLuQ)

119 And they got tired of hearing it, stopped the van, and tooled him up so to speak

That's prolly when they threw him in the back of the van and he hit the bolt
---
There's no evidence to support that.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 30, 2015 06:32 PM (ZPrif)

120 That's the idea isn't it? though ti was planed that way. Enough cr**p happens and is people demand the govt do something . Voila-instant dictatorship.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:25 PM (DXzRD)

Tyranny in the name of "public safety."

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 06:32 PM (nL0sw)

121 Reverand Al Shafton should be called in by Presdent Obama to resolve this situation brought on by the eight years of Bush and Chainy as Presdent. Bush lied and these people died !!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 30, 2015 06:32 PM (Sd++4)

122 The prison population has been declining steadily since 2011 as the states and feds started undoing the Tough on Crime policies enacted in the 80s and 90s.

We have more riots now because we have more violent ppl roaming the streets of America's cities.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 30, 2015 06:31 PM (ZPrif)

At least the people in most states are better armed than they were in the '80's...

Posted by: The Political Gun at April 30, 2015 06:32 PM (0Ew3K)

123 Leona Ozaki is right, we are in the middle of a crime war.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 06:32 PM (CwVOr)

124 Could be both stories are half true. He's throwing himself about -- driver says "here, I'll help ya. Snap."

Posted by: Letitbeme at April 30, 2015 06:33 PM (kEY+X)

125 I'd like to know why this punk was even on the streets. He has something like 20 arrests for drugs and selling drugs and that's just his adult record and he was only 25. How many crimes do you get to commit in Baltimore before you actually do jail time?

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 06:33 PM (g1DWB)

126 There's no evidence to support that.
--------

Nah but it feels right.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 06:33 PM (ttJ2z)

127 We have more riots now because we have more violent ppl roaming the streets of America's cities.

We postulate that leaded gas has been surreptitiously re-introduced across the nation.

Posted by: Mother Jones at April 30, 2015 06:34 PM (evTiy)

128 Tavis Smiley says riots could be "the new normal," calling the resort to mass violence, strangely, "a dignity thing."

That's so crazy, it just might work!

Posted by: derit at April 30, 2015 06:34 PM (jT+gh)

129 Remember all those routine race riots when Bush was president?

Posted by: mugiwara at April 30, 2015 06:34 PM (3a584)

130 I think Baltimore thugs wouldn't know "dignity" if it was shoved up their asses with a dick in a prison rape.

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2015 06:34 PM (xWW96)

131 POLICE VANS ARE BEAR BONES?

Posted by: Al Sharpton at April 30, 2015 06:34 PM (vNzbV)

132 I'm seeing more and more of these cases as 'suicide by cop'. Career fuck-ups who know the kind of settlement a lawyer can secure for their next of kin.

Freddy "Lead Chips" Gray was already pretty familiar with the risk/reward ratio.

Posted by: Emotional Protestor at April 30, 2015 06:34 PM (xQX/f)

133 The van had an unreported stop that was caught by private security cameras. Why didn't they mention it. Especially in light of the fact that a passenger had to be taken to the hospital and died later.

Posted by: ThunderB at April 30, 2015 06:35 PM (zOTsN)

134 I suspect that Freddy was banging around, probably trying to mildly injure hisself and the van driver took a corner fast or hit brakes as a 'knock it off' signal and it happened to cause the broken neck via freak accident.

I don't have a reason to suspect at this point, that they were driving rough the whole way, the fact that there was another prisoner suggests they were not to me.

Why is their rioting going on elsewhere? Well hell even the LIVs have probably registered that if you act like an enemy to the U.S. BarryHO showers you with goodies.

Posted by: PaleRider at April 30, 2015 06:35 PM (dkExz)

135 We postulate that leaded gas has been surreptitiously re-introduced across the nation.

Posted by: Mother Jones at April 30, 2015 06:34 PM (evTiy)

But tetraethyl lead is what gives crack its sweet, sweet flavor!

Posted by: Try it, the first rock is free at April 30, 2015 06:35 PM (0Ew3K)

136 Derek Hunter, a local radio personality, who should be a Moron was speaking live to a caller claiming to be a Baltimore Cop.
The caller claimed that 90 Officers are pursuing some sort of action (I missed the details) against the Mayor, and that the force has a loss of confidence in her leadership abilities.

The caller was emphatic that the order from the top was to NOT engage, nor arrest anyone.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:35 PM (VPLuQ)

137 I have no intention of going back and reading
something from 8;30 this morning, and perhaps it's not the best idea to
sneeringly refer to people as being part of "brain trust" when your
handle is "imbecile". I skipped over the fight argument between you and
another poster because i don't read everything here (just not enough
time).

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:21 PM (DXzRD)
----
Actually, you are 100% right to skip it. The guy was giving me all kinds of ad hominem, racial, and generally obnoxious abuse for stating almost exactly what Ace wrote in these last two paragraphs:" As you've probably heard, it is suspected that Gray was the recipient of a so-called "rough ride," an extrajudicial punishment by which police handcuff a suspect -- but do not secure him to a seat with seatbelts -- and then toss him around the back of a police van by taking corners hard, driving over bumpy roads, etc."
"This much-linked Washington Post story reports on a prisoner claiming that Gray was pounding his head on the inside of the police van, like he was trying to harm himself. But let's be serious, prisoners have enormous incentives to make up things that will be useful to their captors."
When I read that, I posted his handle from this AM hoping to see him eat his hat for being a total jerk to me for an hour for having the opinion that the WaPo article was weak evidence, improbable, and implausible compared to the storied history of Baltimore "rough rides" ... I didn't claim to "know what happened", just pointing out the probability of Freddie Gray being another case was fairly high.Consistent with prior cases described in Baltimore Sun article here - http://tinyurl.com/mxwzvqd

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:35 PM (2UpXV)

138 My day isn't complete until I've heard from Brattleboro VT!

Posted by: Diogenes at April 30, 2015 06:36 PM (08Znv)

139 Oh God. NFL Network is doing a Gold Carpet. Interviewing the prospects.

Posted by: buzzion at April 30, 2015 06:36 PM (z/Ubi)

140 There is evidence he was causing a ruckus. There is evidence they stopped and didn't report it

Posted by: ThunderB at April 30, 2015 06:36 PM (zOTsN)

141 Bring Hector here, I need to pee......

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2015 06:37 PM (xWW96)

142 Here's the thing -- if they were giving him a "rough ride" bad enough to kill him, why was the OTHER prisoner uninjured? And as someone else pointed out, why is there no report of a crazy-driving paddy wagon?

Posted by: sunny-dee at April 30, 2015 06:37 PM (EBoCD)

143 129 Remember all those routine race riots when Bush was president?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

Posted by: wooga at April 30, 2015 06:37 PM (vNzbV)

144 Tyranny in the name of "public safety."

Because atone who wasn't part of the Obama rah-rah express surely heard whistles and sirens go off with a lot of red flags when Dear Leader started on about federalizing the police force. Brown shirts anyone?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:37 PM (DXzRD)

145 I don't think it's implausible at all that he was trying to bang himself up and could have hit his head at a weird angle during a turn or something.

Not saying I believe that's what happened but it's certainly plausible.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 06:38 PM (ttJ2z)

146 Posted by: sunny-dee at April 30, 2015 06:37 PM (EBoCD)

There should be dash cam video from all of the vehicles involved.

If it showed them bringing the prisoner on a 'rough ride' they'd know by now.

And even if the driver steered toward some pot holes, that won't prove murder.

I think it's more and more likely that this was just a freak accident. a one in a million thing where the guy just bumped his head the wrong way.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:38 PM (AkOaV)

147 Maybe they stopped because the ruckus stopped and they wanted to see if he was alright

Posted by: ThunderB at April 30, 2015 06:39 PM (zOTsN)

148 Shorter Horde: don't be a criminal.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (MYPM9)

149 Back in the day the Houston police would put people in the back of a cruiser with a cage and "forget" to fasten their seat belts or fasten them loosely. A very sudden stop was called "a screen test".

Posted by: Daybrother at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (NHtMs)

150 So here's the thing: You know who doesn't have white guilt? Non-whites. And if you know Asian or Hispanic (or even Eastern European) immigrants, they don't mind at all discussing things that many of us would find -- at best -- politically incorrect. As we are told, the demographics of America are getting decidedly non-white. The "civil rights community" think that this is to their benefit, but if their business model is to make it black riots vs. white cops, Asians and Hispanics are not going to side with black riots.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (L2xDv)

151 Maybe they stopped because the ruckus stopped and they wanted to see if he was alright

Posted by: ThunderB at April 30, 2015 06:39 PM (zOTsN)

Quite possible.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (+/fKe)

152 The report of the external private security video showing the van at an additional stop fails to report
1. How long did it stop?
2. Did any Officer exit the cab and enter the rear of the van?
I3.Is there a connecting opening between the front and rear interior of the van.

Little things like that would help to flesh out just exactly what could not have physically taken place.
Like for example, no interior connection, and both Officers remaining in the cab during the entire time the van was stationary.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (VPLuQ)

153 Ha ha. Any of you rubes see the Orioles/White Sox game live from the stadium?'

Welcome to the April Revolution!

Posted by: Fritz at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (ty633)

154
There is evidence he was causing a ruckus. There is evidence they stopped and didn't report it

it was a drug sweep if you notice in the video there were cops on bikes they make arrest but they can't transport prisonersso the paddy wagon will make stops until its full then head to the lockup

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:41 PM (lKyWE)

155 I'd like to know why this punk was even on the streets. He has something
like 20 arrests for drugs and selling drugs and that's just his adult
record and he was only 25. How many crimes do you get to commit in
Baltimore before you actually do jail time?

Or what he was high on at the time. What was that shit that made people rip their clothes off and bite people. ( and I don't mean Marv Albert) The one guy actually got his face eaten off IIRC.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 06:41 PM (ahBY0)

156 Alright. I admit it. It was me.

Posted by: zombie sir isaac newton at April 30, 2015 06:41 PM (kivUY)

157 did the nam thread go back to the top?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:41 PM (AkOaV)

158
Maybe alienstried to stealhis life essence and accidently killed him?
They sometimes turn cows inside out.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 06:41 PM (uhftQ)

159 I think if it was a "rough ride" the witness would have said so, but in fact, he gave a defense.

Posted by: @PeeteySDee at April 30, 2015 06:41 PM (MCBHU)

160 Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 06:41 PM (ahBY0)

"bath salts" were the street name (they were sold in gas stations as "bath salts -- not for human consumption").

Face eater was not high on it, they only found trace amounts of marijuana in his system and that he wasn't on drugs at the time. Which is freaky.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:42 PM (AkOaV)

161 133
The van had an unreported stop that was caught by private security
cameras. Why didn't they mention it. Especially in light of the fact
that a passenger had to be taken to the hospital and died later.

Posted by: ThunderB at April 30, 2015 06:35 PM (zOTsN)
--------------
Exactly this. I don't understand the lust of some commentators to push the scenario the guy broke his own neck accidentally. Thrashing around so he could physically harm himself to get painkillers, or some legal settlement. That is so improbable on balance to the multiple documented scenarios of this same behavior used routinely by Baltimore police - absurd to ignore this reality exists!

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:42 PM (2UpXV)

162 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:35 PM (2UpXV)

Thanks for filling in some info.
Easier said than done, but don't worry too much about people giving you grief. Most people don't know others here (expect for ones that e-mail or socialize at the "moron meetups) so their stress comes out over events, and things are often misinterpreted.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 30, 2015 06:43 PM (DXzRD)

163 >>When he says he does, and goes to the UN security council and passes the deal there, destroying the international sanctions that are doing 95% of the damage to Iran's economy right now, who's going to stop him, and how?

Bath salts. I think St Freddie of Baltimore was more of a crack guy.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 06:43 PM (g1DWB)

164 @155, "bath salts" which is kind of like PCP+meth. But the black guy who ate the homeless guy's face off was actually just on marijuana and a healthy dose of crazy.

Posted by: sunny-dee at April 30, 2015 06:44 PM (EBoCD)

165 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:42 PM (2UpXV)

Well I don't know. I'm routinely called 'anti-cop' since I rarely give the government the benefit of the doubt.

I'm just saying, a week ago I was 100% sure the cops caused this neck injury. Now I'm open to the idea that maybe it was just a freak accident and the incompetent cops didn't fill out paperwork, because -- good enough for government work, ya know?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:44 PM (AkOaV)

166

I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand
Walkin' through the streets of Soho in the rain
He was lookin' for the place called Lee Ho Fooks
Gonna get a big dish of beef chow mein

Aaahoo! Werewolves of London
Aaahoo!
Aaahoo! Werewolves of London
Aaahoo!

Anyone want to go out for Chinese???

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:44 PM (iQIUe)

167 Exactly this. I don't understand the lust of some
commentators to push the scenario the guy broke his own neck
accidentally. Thrashing around so he could physically harm himself to
get painkillers, or some legal settlement. That is so improbable on
balance to the multiple documented scenarios of this same behavior used
routinely by Baltimore police - absurd to ignore this reality exists!

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:42 PM (2UpXV)

Funny, I don't understand your refusal to confront the reality of the fact that some people make a practice of self-harm.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 30, 2015 06:45 PM (+/fKe)

168 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (VPLuQ)

The grand jury will/has hashed this out.

If they find no wrong doing, woe be unto Baltimore.

The narrative went around a day or two ago about all the money that Baltimore PD had paid out in lawsuits. I'm sure they know this In the hood. Like hitting the lottery.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 06:45 PM (48QDY)

169
Face eater was not high on it, they only found trace amounts of marijuana in his system and that he wasn't on drugs at the time. Which is freaky.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:42 PM (AkOaV)

----------------------

Maybe, he was just German?

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (iQIUe)

170 When you're feeling blue
all you've got to do
is take to the streets
and see who you meets
each outstretched hand
springs forth a plan
clasp it in brotherhood
and sucker punch him to deadwood

Posted by: derit at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (jT+gh)

171
Exactly this. I don't understand the lust of some commentators to push the scenario the guy broke his own neck accidentally. Thrashing around so he could physically harm himself to get painkillers, or some legal settlement. That is so improbable on balance to the multiple documented scenarios of this same behavior used routinely by Baltimore police - absurd to ignore this reality exists!

i'll tell you why.because people do fucking crazy things on drugs.i've been in county lock ups and its not that fucking rare

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (lKyWE)

172 I'm a "speculate all you want but don't sit here and tell me how implausible or improbable something is when you don't have all the facts" kind of guy personally.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (ttJ2z)

173 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (VPLuQ)

well apparently they did stop at one point to shackle the prisoner (who they claim was unruly and "irate").

Not sure if thats the unaccounted for stop that they "forgot" to report.

And not sure if they did anything to the guy that caused his injuries. But apparently there was another cop car behind the paddy wagon, so again... this should all be on dash cam.

If its not, then i'll be VERY suspicious of the PDs version of events.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (AkOaV)

174 So was this mostly black police in the arrest?

The video I saw looked pretty tidy-whitey. I was looking pretty carefully. Paint chips supports his entire weight on one foot then suddenly goes 'limp lettuce'. No action observable by police to explain the sudden change. Except the fact he noticed the woc filming the event.

Then, out of view of the camera, he enters the van by himself.

Posted by: Emotional Protestor at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (xQX/f)

175 As you've probably heard, it is suspected that Gray was the recipient of a so-called "rough ride," ...

Well if the cops did that, they will probably lie and deny it. The only witnesses would be the other criminals in the van, and they can't be trusted. We may never know the truth.

Posted by: despair at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (J6suc)

176 152
The report of the external private security video showing the van at an additional stop fails to report

1. How long did it stop?

2. Did any Officer exit the cab and enter the rear of the van?

I3.Is there a connecting opening between the front and rear interior of the van.

Little things like that would help to flesh out just exactly what could not have physically taken place.

Like for example, no interior connection, and both Officers remaining in the cab during the entire time the van was stationary.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:40 PM (VPLuQ)
-----------------
What do any of those things have to do with going on a "rough ride"? Driving the vehicle recklessly, tossing the unrestrained occupant (he was) in their custody around doesn't require anything you mentioned. Just a driver, steering wheel, gas pedal, brake pedal.

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (2UpXV)

177 I am inclined to believed the WaPo story from the other prisoner in the van. Partly because The Narrative has been proved wrong lately (ferguson , Jackie at UVa) but mainly because WaPo generally supports The Narrative . When they don't (again, Jackie) I tend to believe they have checked it very carefully

Posted by: Jim in Virginia at April 30, 2015 06:47 PM (3SXsL)

178 @161, but imbecilli, you can watch pretty much any episode of COPS or that one about high patrol or any other show that does ride-alongs, and prisoners beat the crap out of themselves all the time, sometimes intentionally, sometimes fighting the cops, and sometimes just by throwing a tantrum. It's really common, and at least a couple of different people (cops and the other prisoner and the arrest video) say that he was thrashing and irate. It's not that big of a leap to guess that his injuries were self-inflicted.

It's also not a guarantee that he did it. The cops or someone else could be at fault, too. I'm just saying that it's not an unreasonable guess.

Posted by: sunny-dee at April 30, 2015 06:47 PM (EBoCD)

179 "bath salts" were the street name (they were sold in gas stations as "bath salts -- not for human consumption").

That was it. Point being there is so much home cooked shit to get high on these days it wouldn't surprise me that this kid didn't even feel himself getting hurt.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 06:48 PM (ahBY0)

180 While its fun to muse and guess, I'm reserving all judgment until after I hear the coroners report.

Posted by: The Political Hat at April 30, 2015 06:49 PM (0Ew3K)

181 >>Thrashing around so he could physically harm himself to
get painkillers, or some legal settlement. That is so improbable on
balance to the multiple documented scenarios of this same behavior used
routinely by Baltimore police - absurd to ignore this reality exists!

Why is it improbable? The fact that rough rides were well known, certainly well known by a guy who had been arrested 20 times, would seem to make it a very good strategy to bruise up a little bit and claim police brutality. Most people seem to think it was police brutality based on the Baltimore cops history so it would seem to be a very logical thing to do.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 06:49 PM (g1DWB)

182 If it was a rough ride he wd have been tossed side to side or on the flood. He wd not have been standing up, facing the back, bent over. Remember - he has a bold scar on the top of his head so we know where he was an what he was doing when he broke his neck.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:50 PM (iQIUe)

183 Oh, and I am a White guy and while working in a Baltimore hospital one of the Black staff physicians did not talk to White people. She simply walked away from them and you had to talk to one of her residents. Treated as a normal thing.
I learned how much racism is in the Black community while living in MD and the NE. I think about 40-45% of Black folks in the USA are rabid racists and get a complete pass on it.
Posted by: Daybrother at April 30, 2015 06:24 PM (NHtMs)

I think I've mentioned this before, but when I was living in the DC Metro area I saw an ad for a book cover contest, for a novel written by a black woman with a black protagonist. I'd barely missed the deadline I think, but I designed a cover anyway and sent it off.

Got a call from the author, she had picked a different cover but she LOVED mine, Felt it captured the mood of the book perfectly. Wanted to use it. We got to chatting and everything was great...until she asked me what race I was and I told her I was white.

Silence on the other end. When she talked again the whole tone of her voice had changed, became guarded, slightly hostile. I being young and naive wondered what I had done wrong. We talked a little bit longer, and hung up. I got an email later saying that since they had committed to the other cover they felt obligated to stick with it, so they would not be using my cover after all. I called B.S. then and will happily do so now.

A good designer gets into the head of their client, no matter who or what they are. A freelance designer in Spain can design for someone in Norway, or Chile, or Thailand. And they do. Publishing houses do not have a designer of every single race and creed, and then pull them out depending on the race and creed of the author. If she ever got a big fat contract, there is a good chance the artist for her cover will NOT be black. Ah well, learned a valuable lesson from the situation which I guess is payment in and of itself.

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 06:50 PM (yRwC8)

184 Posted by: despair at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (J6suc)

Again, there should be dash cam video from at least one of the vehicles involved.

If not, that alone would make me suspicious.

But I have a feeling they have video from both the van and the cruiser driving behind it, and that it doesn't show anything crazy. Because if it did, that info would have been released / leaked.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:51 PM (AkOaV)

185 Quite frankly, I don't really give a crap about Freddie, Trayvon, or the Gentle Giant.

I got bigger things in my life to worry about than people who act like they do, and go through life like they do.

None of them are worth the keystrokes to type this. Me, my family, the people I love... They are important ant.. not them. F them.

Posted by: reality man at April 30, 2015 06:52 PM (BNEdd)

186 Why is it improbable? The fact that rough rides were
well known, certainly well known by a guy who had been arrested 20
times, would seem to make it a very good strategy to bruise up a little
bit and claim police brutality. Most people seem to think it was police
brutality based on the Baltimore cops history so it would seem to be a
very logical thing to do.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 06:49 PM (g1DWB)

Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that he was advised to use this strategy by his lawyer, who would stand to profit handsomely in the event that Gray managed to win a lawsuit against the cops for "brutality". Follow the money.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 30, 2015 06:52 PM (+/fKe)

187 Posted by: The Political Hat at April 30, 2015 06:49 PM (0Ew3K)

Yeah. I need to see the ME report and need to know what the deal is with dash cam videos from the vehicles involved...

Until then, I'm not going to loot a CVS -- I mean, pass judgement.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:53 PM (AkOaV)

188 "What do any of those things have to do with going on a "rough ride"? Driving the vehicle recklessly, tossing the unrestrained occupant (he was) in their custody around doesn't require anything you mentioned. Just a driver, steering wheel, gas pedal, brake pedal."

Iam gonna type this slowly,, so hopefully you can keep up.

There were speculations that during the unreported stop, Officers physically may have roughed Freddy up, or injured him tossing him back into the van.
And postulation that these actions may have actually caused the injury to his neck.

And that these actions might have been why this particular stop had not been reported to authorities until revealed by the private security video.

I was addressing how lack of reported and released details in the report about the video did not actually help to better understand the events, but simply to further cause speculation.

I have no idea what events actually took place.
Nor do you.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:53 PM (VPLuQ)

189 I needed a rough ride to cure my phony PTSD.

Posted by: Mac McClelland at April 30, 2015 06:53 PM (A0UYZ)

190
i guess rough rides is the new cool catch phrase now

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 06:55 PM (lKyWE)

191 Well if the cops did that, they will probably lie and deny it. The only witnesses would be the other criminals in the van, and they can't be trusted. We may never know the truth.
Posted by: despair at April 30, 2015 06:46 PM (J6suc)

Cameras in all the vans!! Well, new ones that you finally know about anyway.

Posted by: NSA at April 30, 2015 06:55 PM (yRwC8)

192 Funny, I don't understand your refusal to confront the reality of the fact that some people make a practice of self-harm.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 30, 2015 06:45 PM (+/fKe)
-------------
I accept that is possible. I've read the bit about his involvement in some personal injury lawsuit. It's greater than non-zero it was self harm. I'm promoting a strong opinion that the "he hurt himself angle" is weak sauce, very convenient to police here, sourced only from a jailhouse snitch. It being held as "equally possible" is really not convincing in this Baltimore scenario where multiple proved cases of paralysis and death from "rough rides" are a known and documented fact in this scenario. It bothers me that people focus on some unlikely bullshit so they can purposely avoid the fact that this particular city seems to have a police violence problem. It's more interesting it's not even very racial compared to other cases. Anyway, the cops didn't buckle him in the van, he was in their custody when he was gravely injured. QED

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:55 PM (2UpXV)

193 CNN says ME report will go to state attorneys office 'as soon as tomorrow'

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:55 PM (AkOaV)

194 You know how much you get for a Slip and Fall in a store!?

Posted by: Garrett at April 30, 2015 06:56 PM (A0UYZ)

195 Sure it's equally possible based on what we know right now because we don't really know a whole lot.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 06:57 PM (ttJ2z)

196 " if they were giving him a "rough ride" bad enough to kill him, why was the OTHER prisoner uninjured? And as someone else pointed out, why is there no report of a crazy-driving paddy wagon?"

Exactly. The "rough ride" was rough enough to kill a man, and yet the other guy in the wagon doesn't have a scratch? That's a bit hard to believe.

I mean, I've ridden in the back of an ambulance while in labor before, so I am quite aware of how uncomfortable it is to be in the back of a van that seemingly lacks shocks, but I find it quite hard to believe that the ride could be *that* rough without harming the other guy as well.

And if it were some sort of crazy freak accident where Gray was somehow killed by a rough stop, well that's shit luck not criminal activity.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 06:57 PM (MYCIw)

197 " It bothers me that people focus on some unlikely bullshit so they can purposely avoid the fact that this particular city seems to have a police violence problem.'

Do you know what the term "Strawman Argument" means.
Just curious.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 06:58 PM (VPLuQ)

198 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 06:55 PM (2UpXV)

Most cities have problems with police violence, police corruption, politician corruption, and basically over all shittiness.

A lot of smaller departments do too. Their police train up like they're going to war and drive around in their MRAPs doing no knock raids and being general fuck heads.

That all being said, this racial #blacklivesmatter shit is bullshit, and not the way to address the problem of overbearing government (first step: don't vote Democrat), and it's just getting annoying.

And who knows what happened here? I don't know. Either the cops were being shitty and swerving around being douchebags, or the guy accidentally freakishly killed himself.

Neither would shock me.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:58 PM (AkOaV)

199 Well, looks like this thread got bumped for the Vietnam thread? Way to keep the black man down!

Posted by: LizLem, paging Al Sharpton at April 30, 2015 06:58 PM (yRwC8)

200 Last nite they blocked traffic on the freeway near Ferguson. I was waiting for one black guy to get out of his car and beat the crap out of the protesters. This shit has to stop. Last fall and winter the freaks wd even throw themselves in front of cars and pretended to be injured.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 06:59 PM (iQIUe)

201 I'm surprised there aren't cameras in the back of the wagon to protect the cops against self inflicted injuries blamed on them. I'm old enough to remember when it was known that cops would work you over if you fcuked with them enough, but you had to really be an asshole to get that treatment.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 06:59 PM (ahBY0)

202 that's shit luck not criminal activity.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 06:57 PM (MYCIw)

Right, and I guess that's my point. To prove murder from swerving and driving like an idiot is almost impossible.

Negligent homicide? Maybe.

Freak accident? Eh...

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:59 PM (AkOaV)

203

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:00 PM (iQIUe)

204

its not like you're sitting in the back of a van able to fly all over the place.you are basically in a tiny holding cell

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:00 PM (lKyWE)

205 >>It bothers me that people focus on some unlikely bullshit so they can purposely avoid the fact that this particular city seems to have a police violence problem.

Thats a pretty big leap. You can believe that he was thrashing around in the van in attempt to play on the known issue that the Baltimore cops are known to be rough and believe the cops are rough. In fact, it is sort of logical you would.

You know who else has a serious violence problem? The residents of inner city Baltimore. Go take a stroll through there after dark. I double dog dare you.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:00 PM (g1DWB)

206
WHO WAS VAN PRISONER??

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:00 PM (iQIUe)

207 "sourced only from a jailhouse snitch"

Turns out snitching don't beat Rikers

Posted by: Jim Carroll at April 30, 2015 07:00 PM (MYCIw)

208 And if it were some sort of crazy freak accident
where Gray was somehow killed by a rough stop, well that's shit luck not
criminal activity.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 06:57 PM (MYCIw)

------------
Is it possible that Freddie Gray was the only person being transported when the "rough ride" potential scenario occurred?
Also, so you think its acceptable ("shit luck") that cops through force or negligence let citizens in their custody die or become paralyzed because they were arrested? Judge/jury/executioner type deal? Really?

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:01 PM (2UpXV)

209 Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:00 PM (lKyWE)

Right. I have been in the back of a very similar paddy wagon.

It did not have seatbelts. Apparently federal guidelines changed recently and they now do have seat belts (this was a while ago when I was picked up).

Youre on a plastic bench, hands handcuffed behind you, with a plastic partition in front of you (other prisoners on the other side) and room for 4-5 other people on the bench next to you.

There is not much room to move forward, and to move sideways you kind of have to slide. Not much leg room.

Nothing to grab on to if you fall though, and you dont have use of your hands, so...

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:02 PM (AkOaV)

210 I spend lots of time in Maryland, in PG County and Baltimore, as well as in D.C. By and large, I find little or no racism directed my way of the kind people here are describing.

Baltimore City is the exception, in that its a very rough town, even down in the Inner Harbor and young kids run in gangs around Camden Yard and even in the plaza in the Inner Harbor. I routinely see tourists harassed, and assaults are in the news on a regular basis. Moving north or west, you can be in bad areas very quickly and violence is a real danger.

In my experience I've not witnessed a racial element to any of this, though. It's mostly young kids and adolescents in gangs. And little police presence. Tough town, Baltimore.

Posted by: MTF at April 30, 2015 07:03 PM (x9oEV)

211 "Also, so you think its acceptable ("shit luck") that cops through force or negligence let citizens in their custody die or become paralyzed because they were arrested? "

Yeah, that's totally exactly what I said.

Posted by: Jim Carroll at April 30, 2015 07:03 PM (MYCIw)

212 give a rough ride with another prisoner present? That kind of corroborating witness would be...a challenge for most corrupt cops, eh?

Sure, the city could bribe the witness one way but you can fucking bet that the incentives to lie the other way are awful sweet as well.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at April 30, 2015 07:03 PM (qyobn)

213 /sock

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:04 PM (MYCIw)

214 ScoggDogg?

Posted by: Kenway at April 30, 2015 07:04 PM (Nyany)

215 Paint chips was hardly a brainiac. He basically won the lottery for $180,000. Most likely paid out $9,000 per year for 20 years. Instead he falls for the 'structured settlement' scam that nets him $18,000.

That's serious money for a junky. Someone with their head screwed on straight would know they were getting screwed.

Posted by: Emotional Protestor at April 30, 2015 07:04 PM (xQX/f)

216
It being held as "equally possible" is really not convincing in this Baltimore scenario where multiple proved cases of paralysis and death from "rough rides" are a known and documented fact in this scenario. It bothers me that people focus on some unlikely bullshit

how many proven cases of inmates trying to hurt themselves every day do you suppose there are?

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:05 PM (lKyWE)

217 I've been on a 900 hp 36 foot fishing boat going 50 mph in 4-6foot seas. Talk about a rough ride.

You sort of lock yourself in because self preservation and shit.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 07:05 PM (48QDY)

218 140 There is evidence he was causing a ruckus. There is evidence they stopped and didn't report it
Posted by: ThunderB at April 30, 2015 06:36 PM (zOTsN)

Could you describe the ruckus, sir?

Posted by: Anthony Michael Hall at April 30, 2015 07:05 PM (AVWYi)

219 >>It bothers me that people focus on some unlikely
>>bullshit so
they can purposely avoid the fact that
>>this particular city seems to
have a police violence problem.

>Thats a pretty big leap.
>Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:00 PM (g1DWB)

Perhaps it's a leap, I don't know if it's big. I certainly don't hear the commenters debating me about the likelihood of this being self harm, versus malice say one word about the potential that the police caused this. I concede, sure it's possible that he took advantage of not being properly secured, and through his body around, trying to hurt himself. I haven't heard anyone here address the several cases of paralysis/death in Baltimore caused by rough rides. Not once. Just more Freddie Gray was a criminal drug addict who deserved it. That's the general tone I'm getting here, which is gross.

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:06 PM (2UpXV)

220 What ever came of the claims he was recovering from spinal surgery? Fusion, I think?
Did that turn out to be B.S.?

Posted by: Felonious Monk at April 30, 2015 07:06 PM (1S9oZ)

221 194
You know how much you get for a Slip and Fall in a store!?
------
According to the Strong Arm, Frank Azar, 1.7 million.

Posted by: Old Blue at April 30, 2015 07:07 PM (9iR5/)

222 "Also, so you think its acceptable ("shit luck") that cops through force or negligence let citizens in their custody die or become paralyzed because they were arrested? Judge/jury/executioner type deal? Really?"

You have a real issue with twisting, altering, and otherwise changing the other persons responses in a discussion, don't you?

It's ok. I get it.
Paint chips can do that.

Wanna cookie?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 07:07 PM (VPLuQ)

223 >>> I spend lots of time in Maryland, in PG County and Baltimore, as well as in D.C. By and large, I find little or no racism directed my way of the kind people here are describing.

Most of the people in that area are lovely; race doesn't phase them because you meet so many diverse people. Worked and hung out with a lot of wonderful people. Doesn't mean there aren't some idiots out there though! Cities just concentrate the stupidity so what racism is there is bound to float to the surface eventually.

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 07:07 PM (yRwC8)

224 Who ate my comment?

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:07 PM (iQIUe)

225 Baltimore City is the exception, in that its a very rough town, even down in the Inner Harbor and young kids run in gangs around Camden Yard and even in the plaza in the Inner Harbor.
***
if that's the case, then the mayor is really dropping the ball. I've shared my view that I adopted from Dave Simon that the mayor's of Baltimore have directed that the inner harbor is sacred and no gangbang bullshit will be tolerated.

there are tons of feral kids in baltimore and they can be scary. not afraid to discuss at the top of their lungs how they'd like to fuck your date.

But, these kids are the mayor's constituency I guess. The 40 years of making the city liveable for the normal people is basically down the drain.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at April 30, 2015 07:07 PM (qyobn)

226 Also, so you think its acceptable ("shit luck") that cops through force or negligence let citizens in their custody die or become paralyzed because they were arrested? Judge/jury/executioner type deal? Really?
Posted by: imbecilli

how long you been reading this blog? many here think exactly that.

Posted by: X at April 30, 2015 07:08 PM (n5fTN)

227 Who ate my comment? Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:07 PM (iQIUe)

So you're saying they got snipped?

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 07:08 PM (yRwC8)

228 Any "stand down"order given by a politician should be immediately followed by an arrest of that politician by the LEO the order is given to.

Take your pick, obstruction, nonfeasance, misfeance, malfeasance

Posted by: Grad School Fool at April 30, 2015 07:08 PM (A9KzJ)

229 Wait, I'm a little confused. How long was this other subject back there with gray? If it can be established he saw the whole thing, went on the same ride, why is any speculation being considered? Job 1 would be establishing or discounting his credibility, wouldn't it? Why so late to the fray?

Posted by: Letitbeme at April 30, 2015 07:08 PM (Au+VP)

230 You have a real issue with twisting, altering, and otherwise changing the other persons responses in a discussion, don't you?

It's ok. I get it.
Paint chips can do that.

Wanna cookie?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice

Oh stewardess, I speak retard.

Posted by: Barbara Billingsly at April 30, 2015 07:08 PM (Q/rld)

231 112 Let's not forget that this is all probably a complex plot by the Koch brothers

Posted by: The searchlight pedophile at April 30, 2015 07:09 PM (3SXsL)

232 "versus malice say one word about the potential that the police caused this. "

Yeah, sure it's possible the police caused it. We spent the past week and a half assuming that the police caused it, and now that there is evidence that the guy hurt himself it's being handwaved away. Well, we have an eye witness saying the guy hurt himself and zero evidence the police did it aside from nebulous stories of "rough rides" existing in the general sense, so my scale is leaning "self harm".

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:09 PM (MYCIw)

233 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:06 PM (2UpXV)

It's possible the police caused this. It's possible they acted out of malice, or negligence, or were just on a shitty power trip.

It's all possible.

But we all just speculating right now. No one has any idea what happened. There is not enough information out there yet to know.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:09 PM (AkOaV)

234 Any "stand down"order given by a politician should be immediately followed by an arrest of that politician by the LEO the order is given to.

Take your pick, obstruction, nonfeasance, misfeance, malfeasance
***
what's this now?
signed, xxoo

Obama's INS and DHS chiefs as they start handing out voter slips to recent illegals.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at April 30, 2015 07:09 PM (qyobn)

235 Assholes are gonna asshole.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:10 PM (IvTw6)

236 >>>>Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 06:57 PM (MYCIw)

Yeah, that's totally exactly what I said.

Posted by: Jim Carroll at April 30, 2015 07:03 PM (MYCIw)
------------------------

I'm not sure what you are responding to? I copied/pasted what you said and responded. I didn't characterize it, I quoted you verbatim? Are you ok?

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:10 PM (2UpXV)

237 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:06 PM (2UpXV)

People arent debating you bc you are an obnoxious asshole.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:10 PM (iQIUe)

238 112 Let's not forget that this is all probably a complex plot by the Koch brothers
Posted by: The searchlight pedophile at April 30, 2015 07:09 PM (3SXsL)

With the excess rage being caused by drugs mixed into the chem trails!

Posted by: Average tinfoil frootloop at April 30, 2015 07:10 PM (yRwC8)

239 Posted by: Letitbeme at April 30, 2015 07:08 PM (Au+VP)

Gray was in the van alone for a while before the second prisoner was picked up and put on the other side of partition.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:10 PM (AkOaV)

240 "Obama's INS and DHS chiefs as they start handing out voter slips to recent illegals."

zactly.

too many oaths being ignored these days

Posted by: Grad School Fool at April 30, 2015 07:10 PM (A9KzJ)

241 >>Just more Freddie Gray was a criminal drug addict who deserved it. That's the general tone I'm getting here, which is gross.

Not an addict, a drug dealer. Kind of a big difference.

A week ago I had never heard of Freddie Gray. Based on what I have read and heard of him, he was a career criminal scumbag.

I'm not glad he's dead but I sure ain't shedding any tears either. If the cops are guilty of negligence of something worse I hope they get prosecuted but let's stop pretending this was some innocent waif who got caught smoking a bone.

I'm looking forward to learning more about his record at least as much as I am reading the autopsy report.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:11 PM (g1DWB)

242 So you're saying they got snipped?
Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 07:08 PM (yRwC

---------------------
I prefer "tucked."

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:11 PM (iQIUe)

243 "Are you ok?"

I left a sock on. Jim Carroll was me.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:11 PM (MYCIw)

244 NBC news just interviewed and ID'd the other van passenger . I have my doubts now- maybe another tragic victim of lead poisoning, looking to get his face on network news

Posted by: Jim in Virginia at April 30, 2015 07:11 PM (3SXsL)

245 That's the general tone I'm getting here, which is gross.

The general impression I'm getting from you, based on your syntax and spelling, is 'ged' level. Good enough diploma, jailhouse lawyer experience for fellow convicts.

Posted by: Emotional Protestor at April 30, 2015 07:11 PM (xQX/f)

246
I haven't heard anyone here address the several cases of paralysis/death in Baltimore caused by rough rides.

so what is the definition of a rough ride? have you ever ridden on a crowded city bus? because those drivers can make it pretty rough too

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:13 PM (lKyWE)

247 But we all just speculating right now. No one has any idea what happened. There is not enough information out there yet to know.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:09 PM (AkOaV)
----------
Agreed. I'm def calling out the "maybe he killed himself" crowd for being dumb though, as well as the "he's a drug addict who cares" crew for being reprehensible. If that makes me an asshole to them, big whoop.

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:13 PM (2UpXV)

248 "Gray was in the van alone for a while before the second prisoner was picked up and put on the other side of partition."

Ok, so in that case we should be able to confirm or deny the condition that Gray was in at the point prisoner #2 entered the van and make a determination if any prior bad acts on the part of the police had occurred.

Was Gray alert? Moving? Bashing his head against the wall?

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:14 PM (MYCIw)

249 To be clear it makes you an ignorant asshole.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:14 PM (IvTw6)

250 so what is the definition of a rough ride? have you ever ridden on a crowded city bus? because those drivers can make it pretty rough too
Posted by: kj

A Chattahoochee Rough Ride will cost you $50. An extra $20 if you want a Tuscaloosa Duplin' to go with it.

Posted by: Lil Cuyler at April 30, 2015 07:16 PM (Q/rld)

251 " NBC news just interviewed and ID'd the other van passenger"

Ok, so now we have a guy willing to go on national TV to dispute the rioters account. That goes well beyond wanting a better plea.

I don't care what protections I was offered, I wouldn't lie for the police if I were about to go out and face the streets of Baltimore.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:16 PM (MYCIw)

252 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:13 PM (2UpXV)

Okay, but I think you're creating giant strawmen there.

I don't see a crowd saying "maybe he killed himself." I see people saying, "oh, maybe that recently released information about his thrashing around is what inadvertently led to his death." which is not dumb with what we know right now, which is not much.

I also see people saying, "he wasn't some innocent kid, he was a violent drug dealer with 20 arrests under his belt who knows the system inside and out, and maybe was trying to run a scam that backfired and accidentally killed him." I don't find that reprehensible.

But if it does turn out that the police were responsible, then they should be held responsible civilly and criminally (if warranted). And yes, cops are often assholes.

But thats no reason to beat up on the rest of the horde.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:16 PM (AkOaV)

253 so what is the definition of a rough ride? have you ever ridden on a
crowded city bus? because those drivers can make it pretty rough too

Or at the back of a 2 1/2 or 5 ton truck in the Army. I learned pretty quik to sit as close to the cab as I could get.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 07:16 PM (ahBY0)

254 Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:14 PM (MYCIw)

Prisoner #2 says Gray was making a lot of noise, thrashing around, and "irate", oh and also yelling he needed to go to the hospital (which may or may not be important)

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:17 PM (AkOaV)

255 "I haven't heard anyone here address the several cases of paralysis/death in Baltimore caused by rough rides. "

Specifically, what would you like addressed?
Court records exist showing the City paying cash settlements to individuals who have been injured while in Police Vehicles, and in Police custody.

Pretty certain that these events have indeed happened in the past.
Not denying it.

Would you like to address the logic path that says that because "Rough Rides" have occurred in the past, this must be a rough ride?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 07:17 PM (VPLuQ)

256 To be clear it makes you an ignorant asshole.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:14 PM (IvTw6)
---------
Hey, I'll accept 'asshole', but you will have to do better than that. Explain my ignorance to me on some specific point from anything discussed above. Thx

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:17 PM (2UpXV)

257 And the reason I say you're an ignorant asshole is because you admit that you yourself are doing nothing but speculating and yet you call others dumb for, well, speculating.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:18 PM (IvTw6)

258 Freddie's Dead

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4zICxh9kKZg

Posted by: FISHBONE at April 30, 2015 07:18 PM (A0UYZ)

259
A Chattahoochee Rough Ride will cost you $50. An extra $20 if you want a Tuscaloosa Duplin' to go with it.

well now you're talking about the fancy stuff

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:18 PM (lKyWE)

260 the only folks that find the questioning of the media (proven liars) narrative to be "reprehensible" are the douchebags supporting Mayor "Space to Destroy"

Posted by: Grad School Fool at April 30, 2015 07:19 PM (A9KzJ)

261 forensic pathologist on CNN saying "it is possible" to sever your own spinal cord in a van "but unlikely"

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:19 PM (AkOaV)

262 Even Jonathan fucking Capehart admitted that "Hands up don't shoot" was based on a lie. WTF is the reason to protest now? Gentle giant Mike brown still gets cited as an example of police brutality against blacks

Posted by: Jim in Virginia at April 30, 2015 07:19 PM (3SXsL)

263
Or at the back of a 2 1/2 or 5 ton truck in the Army. I learned pretty quik to sit as close to the cab as I could get.

marine amtracks were the worst

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:20 PM (lKyWE)

264 "And the reason I say you're an ignorant asshole is because you admit that you yourself are doing nothing but speculating and yet you call others dumb for, well, speculating. "

I think the problem is that if my speculation parallel his speculation, I would be a reasonable and intelligent person.

But, if my speculation does not parallel his speculation, I'm a mouth breathing hater because i'm just speculating instead of sticking to facts.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 07:21 PM (VPLuQ)

265 "forensic pathologist on CNN saying "it is possible" to sever your own spinal cord in a van "but unlikely""

Which raises the question of how likely it is to sever your spinal cord unrestrained in a vehicle that is not involved in an accident.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:21 PM (MYCIw)

266 CNN has a black dude on building his own strawmen.

"so now the cops are saying he picked this bizarre way to commit suicide..."

NO ONE IS saying that. No one thinks he MEANT to kill himself. Some people have speculated he was trying to fake an injury.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:22 PM (AkOaV)

267 Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:21 PM (MYCIw)

I mean, very slim.

The chances of this happening accidentally at all are very slim. Like 1 in a million. Or more.

But I mean, they can (and do) sometimes happen.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:23 PM (AkOaV)

268 But thats no reason to beat up on the rest of the horde.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:16 PM (AkOaV)
----------I did not intend to beat up on some vast demographic here. You are right, my broad statement did make a "giant strawman", though my intent was to illustrate *some* of the camps. I don't divide people into those two groups here at all, and the spectrum does run from what you wrote/characterized about those two positions - to the more gutter end of that.Anyway, maybe I am getting off base here. If I'm not adding more "lively" than "obnoxious" maybe I'll take a break here. Long day. Thanks for being totally civil, it was a good reminder.
///Best out come of all this is 100% body cameras on Baltimore PD

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:23 PM (2UpXV)

269 261 forensic pathologist on CNN saying "it is possible" to sever your own spinal cord in a van "but unlikely"
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:19 PM (AkOaV)

Punditfuct gave it a "plausible" rating.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 07:24 PM (48QDY)

270
So, people who dive into shallow water and sever their spinal columns are rare? Oh, I dont think so. If you hit your head on the bottom of a pool or lake or on a metal door, what's the difference?

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:24 PM (iQIUe)

271 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:23 PM (2UpXV)

definitely agree. cops should be wearing cameras.

and no problem, we all get frustrated with all this shit and need to vent from time to time

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:24 PM (AkOaV)

272 Here's my speculation. Guy was thrashing around trying to bang himself up for personal gain, when the van took a rough turn (intentionally or not) which somehow caused enough force to sever his spine.

An elegantly simple answer and candidate for that "dumb ways to die" song.

Posted by: Lauren at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (MYCIw)

273 >>Explain my ignorance to me on some specific point from anything discussed above. Thx

Here's one. You keep calling him a drug addict when in fact he was a well known drug dealer. He even did two years in prison for dealing heroin and was awaiting trial on a new heroin charge that could have sent him away for a long, long time when the cops arrested him again.

He and his sister also just got a settlement as part of a class action suit for lead paint exposure and took a settlement. He never even went to court for that, just filed through a class action lawyer. Seems pretty into how the system works.

Why are you leaving out the very important details of his background and calling him an addict?

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (g1DWB)

274 JackStraw: "Why is it improbable? The fact that rough rides were well known, certainly well known by a guy who had been arrested 20 times, would seem to make it a very good strategy to bruise up a little bit and claim police brutality. Most people seem to think it was police brutality based on the Baltimore cops history so it would seem to be a very logical thing to do."

I have no idea what happened and won't speculate. However, the above is an excellent point. If you know the system and decide to work it in your favor, that is not irrational behavior. That's playing the odds.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (1CroS)

275 Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:18 PM (IvTw6)

----

Your word for the day is "PROBABILITY"

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (2UpXV)

276 Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:24 PM (iQIUe)

That's true, I do know someone who was paralyzed from diving in to shallow water.

But yes, it's very rare. Probably only happens every 1 out of a million dives.

But it happens.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (AkOaV)

277 @24: "Gray was the recipient of a so-called "rough ride,"

***************************

My spine is just fine, thank you very much.

Posted by: Teddy Roosevelt at April 30, 2015 06:11 PM (xkSSa)

I, too, have been the recipient of a number of "rough rides," but it wasn't my spine that took the pounding.

Posted by: Sasha Gray at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (amQXf)

278
the guy has a long history of possesing and selling dangerous controled substances.for all we know the guy might have been up for three days.people don't act normal when they're on hard drugs

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:26 PM (lKyWE)

279 So you're not only an ignorant asshole, you're an obtuse, ignorant asshole.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:26 PM (IvTw6)

280 Because speculation is speculation.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:27 PM (IvTw6)

281 Damn, commenting while watching hockey is bad.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:28 PM (g1DWB)

282 Is there a term yet for a professional arguer ?

Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:28 PM (12uNu)

283 Is there a term yet for a professional arguer ?
Posted by: seamrog

I told you already.

Posted by: argument clinic at April 30, 2015 07:29 PM (Q/rld)

284 Why are you leaving out the very important details of his background and calling him an addict?

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (g1DWB)
----Irrelevant mostly. So he's a drug dealer and a drug addict. He's selling Heroin to support his Heroin habit. Whether he has a couple bags in his pocket for himself, or ten bags in his pocket for someone else, if he gets caught - felony possession, prison, criminal activity - no difference. Maybe he could have been a thief too.
What that has to do with being an unrestrained prisoner in a police van, where he sustained fatal injuries is a mystery to me. What about the white woman who had a "rough ride" and has her case in Federal court? What do her crimes have to do with her treatment by Baltimore PD?

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:29 PM (2UpXV)

285 No you didn't

Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:30 PM (12uNu)

286 282 Is there a term yet for a professional arguer ?
Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:28 PM (12uNu)

Yes. Captain*Arizona.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 07:30 PM (b9RWD)

287 According to the passenger/prisoner all he heard was some not very loud banging. About 4 rapid bangs.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:30 PM (iQIUe)

288 No you didn't
Posted by: seamrog

Yes I did.

Posted by: argument clinic at April 30, 2015 07:31 PM (Q/rld)

289 the guy has a long history of possesing and selling
dangerous controled substances.for all we know the guy might have been
up for three days.people don't act normal when they're on hard drugs

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:26 PM (lKyWE)
-----
"The Bath Salt Hypothesis" :-D

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:31 PM (2UpXV)

290 Posted by: argument clinic at April 30, 2015 07:31 PM (Q/rld)

You're not even licensed!

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:32 PM (AkOaV)

291 This blog is full of people that tell me that they already told me.

But they didn't.

Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:32 PM (12uNu)

292 Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:32 PM (12uNu)

Wanna bet?

My buddy Mitt will put $10,000 on it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:32 PM (AkOaV)

293 280
Because speculation is speculation.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:27 PM (IvTw6)
----Ok, Aliens. Equally valid. Are you that dumb?

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:33 PM (2UpXV)

294 We have more riots now because we have more violent ppl roaming the streets of America's cities.

Hey weren't Hitler's Brown Shirts made up of many criminals?

Posted by: Jack at April 30, 2015 07:33 PM (53CCM)

295
The Bath Salt Hypothesis" :-D

crystal meth

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:33 PM (lKyWE)

296 I'm a white, high-IQ libertarian and I would never purposefully try to injure myself for a legal settlement or to get a lenient sentence or outright release so that means no one else would!

Posted by: shit for brains at April 30, 2015 07:34 PM (kivUY)

297 Yes, that's exactly what I meant obtuse, ignorant asshole.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 07:35 PM (IvTw6)

298 >>Irrelevant mostly. So he's a drug dealer and a drug addict. He's selling Heroin to support his Heroin habit. Whether he has a couple bags in his pocket for himself, or ten bags in his pocket for someone else, if he gets caught - felony possession, prison, criminal activity - no difference. Maybe he could have been a thief too.

He was. Arrested for burglary. Assault too. And lying to police. Well rounded.

It's actually not irrelevant at all. It speaks to his character and knowledge of the system.

If you can't understand that career criminals who have many, many run ins with the police often try to use the information they have learned about procedures to get themselves out of trouble then I can't help you.

You keep taking about the Baltimore PD's history but you seem to think Gray's history is irrelevant. Does that seem smart to you? You have no idea what happened anymore than anyone here but you seem ready to put all the blame on the cops. How is that any less gross?

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:36 PM (g1DWB)

299 I'll have to call my plumber to see if he'll back the $10K.

Ya know, probability and all.

Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:37 PM (12uNu)

300 meh. Any city who idolized a guy like Reggie Who-Stab-This-Is gets nothing from me. *Pfffffft*

Posted by: Fritz at April 30, 2015 07:41 PM (ty633)

301 I have no doubt the van finished him off, but because he had sustained an injury during arrest,at the science of arrest. He could not stand. Not would not, could not.

So he may have already sustained damage to his neck/spinal cord, making him especially vulnerable to injury during the ride.

Posted by: Sarahw at April 30, 2015 07:42 PM (lv2k0)

302 You keep taking about the Baltimore PD's history but
you seem to think Gray's history is irrelevant. Does that seem smart to
you? You have no idea what happened anymore than anyone here but you
seem ready to put all the blame on the cops. How is that any less gross?

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:36 PM (g1DWB)
---------------------------Gray has a long rap sheet, and I'm sure hundreds and hundreds of other people they arrest every month do as well. Maybe he decided to resist arrest, and was working an angle to try and get medical attention for drugs, or some injury that could be used for some lawsuit. I've not denied that those are "possible."However, he died in custody. He was unrestrained in a vehicle operated by the state. His injuries were consistent with head impacting inside of van with a *lot* of force (the bolt dent in his skull).Those injuries have nothing to do with him being a wily criminal!!! His physical body was their responsibility, and his type of injury pattern is just like several cases that have already been found to be police negligence. What else can be said JackStraw --- this is so *likely* to be a "rough ride" based on all the similarities that statistically ... well, if you want to believe the wily schemer broke his own neck when he was unrestrained, the are still liable. Correct?

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:43 PM (2UpXV)

303 Now that we are in post-partisan, post-racial America, there are no problems with race relations.
Social Guru Ben Affleck said in his Facebook statement that "we deserve neither credit nor blame for our ancestors," so the past is behind us.

I have no idea what problems the White House sees, but who knows. Maybe it's those poor folks in Baltimore who have missed out on the President's economic recovery.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at April 30, 2015 07:44 PM (e8kgV)

304 Posted by: Sarahw at April 30, 2015 07:42 PM (lv2k0)

That could be it too.

That would also fit with the very limited facts and unconfirmed "facts" we know right now.

The video of him being taken to the paddy wagon seems to show him VERY limp

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:44 PM (AkOaV)

305 @148 The Sheriff's Dept. where I used to live did something similar for night-time arrestees that got rambunctious and called it 'Black Dog'.

"What happened to that guy's face?!"
"Thought I saw a black dog crossing the road. Didn't want to hit it, so I had to stop real quick."

Posted by: Stu Podaso at April 30, 2015 07:45 PM (1I8EA)

306
This guy reminds me of the Amanda Knox character. LOL

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:45 PM (iQIUe)

307 Plus the fact that working as LEO in high crime areas is not Friday night bingo at the local church. It's violent and shit happens when dealing with violent people. Those cops don't have to be cops, I believe most are actually trying to help the good people in those neighborhoods. If they didn't try to make it safe for people to live there who would?

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 07:45 PM (ahBY0)

308 >>Is there a term yet for a professional arguer ?

Interlocutor.

Posted by: Thrasymacus at April 30, 2015 07:46 PM (A0UYZ)

309
He was unrestrained in a vehicle operated by the state.

that was standard procedure until a few weeks ago in baltimore

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:46 PM (lKyWE)

310 The video of him being taken to the paddy wagon seems to show him VERY limp
Posted by: mynewhandle

Bob Dole knows how to fix that.

Posted by: Bob Dole's 4 hour boner at April 30, 2015 07:46 PM (Q/rld)

311 @149 not 148

Posted by: Stu Podaso at April 30, 2015 07:47 PM (1I8EA)

312 He just doesn't seem very smart.

Posted by: Kenway at April 30, 2015 07:48 PM (Nyany)

313 Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:46 PM (lKyWE)

Well whatever the procedure was, the state should have *some* duty to ensure the safety of people they forcibly put in a vehicle then drive around with, right?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:48 PM (AkOaV)

314 Damn. Always forget how much I like Fishbone.

Posted by: Garrett at April 30, 2015 07:48 PM (A0UYZ)

315 So he may have already sustained damage to his neck/spinal cord, making him especially vulnerable to injury during the ride.

Posted by: Sarahw at April 30, 2015 07:42 PM (lv2k0)
---

The video of him being taken to the paddy wagon seems to show him VERY limp

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:44 PM (AkOaV)
---
Now this, out of everything discussed, seems like it has the longest legs. It would also really lower the "threshold" for a "rough ride." However, the facts that they did not call EMT while observing him limp, did not restrain Freddie Gray in van, and the current info is that he has a bolt shaped dent in his head that matches the van, ultimately are going to be conclusive that the PD is culpable at some level, civil or criminal. Just like the other instances in the last several years.

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:48 PM (2UpXV)

316
i'm guessing he sustain some sort of injury before he was put in the van

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:49 PM (lKyWE)

317 You do know that people who resist arrest will also go limp as a means of inconveniencing their captors?

Peaceful Protesters pull this shot all the time. Forces the police to waste officers and effort while dealing with them.

Posted by: Garrett at April 30, 2015 07:51 PM (A0UYZ)

318 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:48 PM (2UpXV)

Could be the case. Others have pointed out that the guy does seem to have stepped up in to the van under his own power though.

Plus, there is the cop in a following car + the other prisoner both saying the guy was thrashing around and both using the word "irate".

Which could mean a medical emergency, or could lend credence to the theory that the guy was trying to play the system somehow or was just being dramatic for whatever reason.

Or it could mean the cops got everyone together to come up with a good lie. Who knows?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:52 PM (AkOaV)

319 >>What else can be said JackStraw --- this is so *likely* to be a "rough ride" based on all the similarities that statistically ... well, if you want to believe the wily schemer broke his own neck when he was unrestrained, the are still liable. Correct?

When did I say that? I said I want to hear more information. This is why we don't have trials on the internet but we have actual trials where all information is presented and then we can make a decision.

And no, it is no more likely that he got a rough ride than he was trying to injure himself based on the information so far and you saying it over and over doesn't make it so.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2015 07:53 PM (g1DWB)

320
Well whatever the procedure was, the state should have *some* duty to ensure the safety of people they forcibly put in a vehicle then drive around with, right?

they do now but a large police force is like every other large government agency.it moves very slow

Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:53 PM (lKyWE)

321 Authorities did not say what type of shark attacked Cruse.

The statement from police did not describe her injuries, but her brother said he was told she had bite marks on her face, upper torso and arm, which was nearly severed.

http://goo.gl/uJW8JD

I dont think I wd like my face bit. Worse, you have to look at those big soul less eyes close up before they roll back and its jaws open wide to eat you.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 07:54 PM (iQIUe)

322 Posted by: Garrett at April 30, 2015 07:51 PM (A0UYZ)

Yes, plus I've seen people do it. When there's a crowd around and you're getting arrested, you tend to play it up. Act like the cops are hurting you and/or making a big scene about how you're innocent and didn't do anything.

Being arrested is humiliating.

So I'm not discounting the possibility that he was faking the whole thing and making a big scene at the scene and throwing a tantrum in the back of the van.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:55 PM (AkOaV)

323 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:52 PM (AkOaV)

All I can say at this point is I'm staring at this pile of beef, bones, and hair where my dead horse used to be. See ya around. Probably on a thread when the reports are released... /inside job

Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:56 PM (2UpXV)

324 Posted by: kj at April 30, 2015 07:53 PM (lKyWE)

No, I mean in general -- the state has a responsibility to ensure reasonable safety to wards under their care. Whether students in school, or prisoners in jail, or suspects in transport.

I mean, you'd agree with that basic statement, right?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:57 PM (AkOaV)

325 Vermicelli, give it a rest.

You're like an old album with a deep scratch.

Same shit over and over ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Posted by: al sharp not at April 30, 2015 07:57 PM (12uNu)

326 Posted by: imbecilli at April 30, 2015 07:56 PM (2UpXV)

Alright, we'll see which theory holds water over time I'm sure.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 07:58 PM (AkOaV)

327 Oh-wah oh-wah-oh-wah-oh-wah oh oh-wah
Oh-wah oh-wah-oh-wah-oh wah oh oh

Jungle life
I'm far away from nowhere
On my own, like Tarzan boy

We're just happy to be in the headlines again! Oh, wait.....damnit.

Posted by: Baltimora at April 30, 2015 08:01 PM (amQXf)

328 If people have rabies, do they attack and try to bite other people?

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 08:10 PM (iQIUe)

329 imbicilli

No matter how much we may disagree...
I'm sorry for the loss of your horse.

Take care.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 08:17 PM (VPLuQ)

330 =imbecilli

fcuking auto-mispell

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 08:18 PM (VPLuQ)

331 It's amazing to me posters here are reaching so far to claim Gray deliberately injured himself. Is there any evidence at all that he did this, or had ever done this? I'm asking because I don't know.

People do injure themselves, I realize, but I've not heard a single suggestion anywhere that Gray is someone with that particular mental illness.

Posted by: MTF at April 30, 2015 08:22 PM (x9oEV)

332 @324, only to a certain extent. If Gray was flinging himself around in the back and caused his own injuries and subsequent death, I don't think the cops are responsible just because he was in his care. You lose a lot of rights, and therefore a lot of responsibility, when you're taken into custody, but you're not completely without responsibility. He still had some control over his situation and behavior and ***if*** his wounds were self-inflicted, he simply chose badly. And no one did that for him.

Posted by: sunny-dee at April 30, 2015 08:24 PM (EBoCD)

333 MTF, I don't think anyone is claiming that he intentionally tried to cripple or kill himself. I think the assumption (which is mine, as well) is that he was throwing a tantrum and possibly trying to cause minimal injuries to blame on the cops. And that the severity of those injuries was caused either by a) an existing, severe injury that he wasn't aware of and made worse or b) really really bad luck. If it's a), and the cops caused his initial bad-but-not-fatal injury, they bear some responsibility -- but it could have come from a fight or some other action previous to his engagement with the cops.

Posted by: sunny-dee at April 30, 2015 08:26 PM (EBoCD)

334 I must say imbecilli has chosen a beautifully à propos screen name for itself.

Posted by: ChicagoRefugee at April 30, 2015 08:27 PM (sKijx)

335 Really all anyone here is doing is speculating about a WaPo report.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 08:30 PM (/nR7C)

336 Well, local video of the previously unknown vehicle stop does seem to show Police Officers opening both sides of the rear of the van, one at a time.
It also seems to show the presence of two bicycle Officers, based on the distinctive yellow jerseys that the Bike Cops wear.
So that answers the question of if Prisoner/Officer access or interaction may have taken place at this stop.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 08:30 PM (VPLuQ)

337 I disagree sunny-dee. Multiple people are saying that's a possible scenario, and I'm asking why. There isn't any evidence at all that the compulsion to self-injure was an illness this fellow Gray had ever shown any evidence of having. It's wild, almost nutty speculation, absent some real evidence, especially since this guy recently had surgery.

Posted by: MTF at April 30, 2015 08:33 PM (x9oEV)

338 I thought the surgery thing had been debunked?

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at April 30, 2015 08:37 PM (/nR7C)

339
Did someone mention a compulsion, or an illness possibly leading to the decision to self injure?

" especially since this guy recently had surgery."

???

http://tinyurl.com/nqmwke5

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 08:39 PM (VPLuQ)

340 A "compulsion to self-injure" is not necessarily the case for one who expects to materially benefit from that injury.

Someone who stages a "slip and fall" so they can sue isn't mentally ill, just morally twisted.

Posted by: ChicagoRefugee at April 30, 2015 08:42 PM (sKijx)

341 The report came from a witness that thought he was thrashing around. There are several possibilities why (including that the witness was lying) but at least it is something.

Posted by: Lea at April 30, 2015 08:46 PM (vmMMi)

342 Agreed. I'm def calling out the "maybe he killed himself" crowd for being dumb though, as well as the "he's a drug addict who cares" crew for being reprehensible. If that makes me an asshole to them, big whoop.

Well, you are "down for the cause"

Posted by: Al Snarkton at April 30, 2015 08:56 PM (PHsbY)

343 Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 06:50 PM (yRwC

That's an interesting (and disheartening) story. It's odd though - I normally don't find it difficult to distinguish black and white voices on the phone and I don't have the most sensitive ear when it comes to accents.

I've wondered why the black urban accent sounds fairly standard across the US (some rural Southern black folks are extremely difficult for me to understand, but that is also true of some white Southern accents) and what it is about AA voices that makes them different from white voices (and I'm not talking about ebonics or grammar or slang anything like that, but the timbre of the voice, which seems different even when the speaker is highly educated. There are exceptions, of course - I don't think I would guess Condi Rice's race if I just heard her on the radio.)

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at April 30, 2015 08:56 PM (+XMAD)

344 Believing a "rough ride" was enough to break his spine is utterly ridiculous and I am embarrassed for anyone who thinks that.

Banging his head into the van seems like it makes the most sense.

I am really surprised Ace seems to be believing the anti-white/anti-police brigade that will claim it was a rough ride since it has been shown the injuries did not occur from the arrest.

Posted by: Sho Nuff at April 30, 2015 09:08 PM (CJ7kU)

345 There is more evidence that Freddy Gray was able to stand up, and move his feet at the moment he first entered the Police Van then there is evidence that man caused global warming is occurring.

But...
Here we are

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 09:11 PM (VPLuQ)

346 I am really surprised Ace seems to be believing the anti-white/anti-police brigade that will claim it was a rough ride since it has been shown the injuries did not occur from the arrest.
Posted by: Sho Nuff at April 30, 2015 09:08 PM (CJ7kU)

Yeah its just awful that Ace is siding with the anti-police brigade.

Posted by: Police serving Warrants in Wisconsin John Doe lawsuits at April 30, 2015 09:26 PM (z/Ubi)

347 Then they picked up a second prisoner, dropped them
both off at jail. This guy said his friend the cop was in the cruiser
behind the paddy wagon the entire time (so there would presumably be
dash cam footage).

We'll see if its true, but I mean... I don't know, I'm starting to
believe maybe this was some kind of freak accident and maybe the cops
didn't rough him up.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 06:20 PM (AkOaV)

Your friend is wrong in at least one detail... they never dropped Freddie Grey off at the jail. They took him to the hospital.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 30, 2015 09:32 PM (5DGKy)

348 "Your friend is wrong in at least one detail... they never dropped Freddie Grey off at the jail. They took him to the hospital."
Sort of yes, sort of no.

Final stop of the van was at the Western Precinct.
At that point, paramedics were called.

It is probably safe to assume that he was transported from there to the hospital without actually physically entering the Precinct building proper first..

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 30, 2015 09:54 PM (VPLuQ)

349 I'm not sure I understand this whole process. So if I'm pissed off at some place or something or somebody I'm going to go riot and burn down my own neighborhood. is that how this works?

Posted by: Wind Breaker at April 30, 2015 09:59 PM (g3EhU)

350 Tavis Smiley is a Drooling Retard.

THERE. I SAID IT!

Posted by: Beverly at April 30, 2015 10:11 PM (Ds6ng)

351 I must say imbecilli has chosen a beautifully apropos screen name for itself.
Actually, if my good Libertarian friend is trying to type in Italian, he misspelled imbecille or he thinks he's more than one (Italian) imbecile.

Posted by: shit for brains at April 30, 2015 10:32 PM (kivUY)

352

What I enjoy most about these types of riots are the lectures. Again, for the umpteenth time, about how your white privilege makes you insensitive to the historic plight of the Black community, and therefore racist. In many cases, the person giving you this lecture is a 20-something white kid who has never ventured within 5 miles of the nearest 'hood.

I tune it out now. I'm not watching any of the coverage, I'm watching sports. I'm wondering if that's the ultimate goal.

Posted by: Tyrone Shoelaces at April 30, 2015 11:49 PM (EARfr)

353 It's probably best to wait until all the facts are in before making a rush to judgement in this case and any case. That being said, when someone dies in police custody, there is much to answer for, especially when one dies in police custody in such a manner. We simply do not have all the facts at this time.

Does it seem probable, however, that this young men severed his own cervical spine and crushed his own larynx or trachea by banging his head into the wall of the van? No. It does seem probable that such an injury could be sustained by a knee to the neck and a choke hold of sorts with a police baton. This is purely speculation.

Such treatment shouldn't happen to anyone. And while the racial factor has inflamed many people - understandably so - the police has to provide answers when someone dies in custody. There are many many cases of SWAT raids on innocent people, police brutality, and police violations of individuals constitutional rights (illegal search and seizures).

The police department hasn't exactly been quick to provide answers, and they have done nothing to address the concerns of the citizens of Baltimore.

The police represent the power and interests of the state. They are also authorized to use force. Why anyone would want to nationalize them is beyond me, but it appears that the police are doing all they can to make the case for it. It's probably going to happen, and then things will get MUCH worse.

Dude, where's my country?

Indeed!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 30, 2015 11:50 PM (2/oBD)

354 It's probably best to wait until all the facts are in before making a rush to judgement in this case and any case. That being said, when someone dies in police custody, there is much to answer for, especially when one dies in police custody in such a manner. We simply do not have all the facts at this time.

Does it seem probable, however, that this young men severed his own cervical spine and crushed his own larynx or trachea by banging his head into the wall of the van? No. It does seem probable that such an injury could be sustained by a knee to the neck and a choke hold of sorts with a police baton. This is purely speculation.

Such treatment shouldn't happen to anyone. And while the racial factor has inflamed many people - understandably so - the police has to provide answers when someone dies in custody. There are many many cases of SWAT raids on innocent people, police brutality, and police violations of individuals constitutional rights (illegal search and seizures).

The police department hasn't exactly been quick to provide answers, and they have done nothing to address the concerns of the citizens of Baltimore.

The police represent the power and interests of the state. They are also authorized to use force. Why anyone would want to nationalize them is beyond me, but it appears that the police are doing all they can to make the case for it. It's probably going to happen, and then things will get MUCH worse.

Dude, where's my country?

Indeed!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 30, 2015 11:50 PM (2/oBD)

355 Note:

the surgery thing has been largely debunked. Snopes also reports a Freddie Gray lawsuit, but also notes that Freddie Gray is a fairly common name and impossible at this time to ascertain whether this was Freddie that was killed in police custody.

It is also highly unlikely that Freddie sustained a broken spine and crushed wind pipe from a "rough ride" or from banging his head against a wall. None of this makes sense.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 30, 2015 11:59 PM (2/oBD)

356 Haha, the "new normal" in blue states maybe. We the people don't put up with that shit here in the South.

Posted by: bworei at May 01, 2015 12:31 AM (zZNYZ)

357 Freddie Gray had a history of pushing bogus lawsuits and that it the likely explanation for what happened here: he was trying to self-inflict an injury that would win him a police brutality lawsuit, and he knew enough from his past lawsuit experience to know that this would require a serious injury. The prospect of big rewards enabled him to take big pain and risk, well, what happened. Just one final criminal act in the short and ugly life of Freddie Gray.

What else makes sense. The "rough ride" theory doesn't square with the other arrestee saying that Freddie seemed to be banging his own head into the wall. If the ride could have done it he would have remarked on the rough ride.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at May 01, 2015 12:10 PM (kTTUz)

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