Support
Contact
Ace:
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd.aoshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd.aoshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
Obama's No Good, Stupid Assumptions Underlying His Iran Deal
History in the making kids...I'm going to suggest you read a Vox post in a non-ironic way. It's an interview with Michael Doran who was a member of George W. Bush's NSC staff.
I'll just pull one question and answer but seriously, read the rest.[Max Fisher]...So then you have this big question mark of what happens if Iran gets caught cheating. It's not just us wondering; the Iranian leaders are surely gaming this out, as well. And I honestly don't feel like I know what the answer is. Michael Doran: First of all, I thank you for asking the question, because I think it is the crucial question. The way the president has set this up, he has incentivized Iran to pocket huge benefits up front. This has put them in a position to be able to go for a bomb when they want in a position of much greater economic strength and diplomatic strength. Because the very process of the negotiation is destroying the sanctions regime we established, which is the greatest nonmilitary instrument we have for coercing them. This is the fundamental flaw at the heart of the coercion strategy. He's going to use his waiver authority to free up all this money that is in escrow accounts across the globe that is going to pour into Iranian coffers nearly immediately. At the same time, the United Nations Security Council is going to bless the agreement, which is then going to free up the Europeans and others, including the Russians and the Chinese, to engage in commercial activity with the Iranians. And so we will have effectively gutted the sanctions regime. Iran's status in the international community is going to be greatly improved, and then there's going to be an international commercial lobby and a diplomatic-military lobby, which includes the Chinese and the Russians, in favor of the new order in which Iran is a citizen in good standing in the international community that they can do business with.Bottom line according to Doran is Obama wants to pull back from the Mideast and is setting Iran up as the regional power that will step in and maintain order. I think he's right about this and it's incredibly dangerous and stupid but then, that's Obama. We tried to reorder the Mideast through regime and society change in Iraq. That didn't work. So yes, we needed to take another swing at it but Obama, either through incompetence or evil intent has stumbled upon the worst possible option. In what possible world does Obama think the Sunni Arab states of the Gulf and wider region are going to accept a dominant Persian Shia power? Ensuring an Iranian bomb is not a recipe for managing the Mideast, it's taking a torch and throwing it into powder magazine. There are probably better ways to ensure that a major war in the Mideast breaks out in the near future but I'm having trouble thinking of one. But Obama is the smartest man in the world or something so I'm sure it'll be fine.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
he's trying to kill us
Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 20, 2015 11:55 AM (0O7c5)
2
So...... In this administration...... gun control GOOD. Thermonuclear warhead control BAD.
So...... In this administration...... gun control GOOD. Thermonuclear warhead control BAD.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:56 AM (NaV4z)
3
Obama is like the sad sack girl in high school trying desperately to get the Mean Girls to like her.
Posted by: Citizen Cake at April 20, 2015 11:56 AM (PtTYB)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:57 AM (LA7Cm)
5
Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a malignant traitor.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (kff5f)
6
In what possible world does Obama think the Sunni Arab states of the Gulf and wider region are going to accept a dominant Persian Shia power?
Because the Smartest Man In The World with the Smartest Diplomacy Evah has no freaking clue that Iranians are Persian and not Arab.
Because the Smartest Man In The World with the Smartest Diplomacy Evah has no freaking clue that Iranians are Persian and not Arab.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (mf5HN)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (659DL)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (kff5f)
9
and it's incredibly dangerous and stupid but then, that's Obama.
Finally something we can all agree on.
Finally something we can all agree on.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 12:00 PM (ZKzrr)
10
I guess Iran has shown themselves to be real leaders of the unfree worldishness the left so desires.
Look they have proven it by sending terrorists across the east killing those that are unlikely to be down with the New Iranian hedgemony.
I suppose these New leaders will be the loving hand of support and gentle kindness for the world.
Silly us having tried to attempt shitty ideas like democracy to countries just wanting the strong hand of theocracies and dictators.
Look they have proven it by sending terrorists across the east killing those that are unlikely to be down with the New Iranian hedgemony.
I suppose these New leaders will be the loving hand of support and gentle kindness for the world.
Silly us having tried to attempt shitty ideas like democracy to countries just wanting the strong hand of theocracies and dictators.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:00 PM (nqBYe)
11
One more time:
Israel will not allow an Iranian bomb.
Make of that statement what you will.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (659DL)
Easier said then done at this point. And much much much more expensive and complicated. And by expensive I don't really mean the financial type.
Fredo has screwed the pooch for mankind on this one
Israel will not allow an Iranian bomb.
Make of that statement what you will.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (659DL)
Easier said then done at this point. And much much much more expensive and complicated. And by expensive I don't really mean the financial type.
Fredo has screwed the pooch for mankind on this one
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (rDqRv)
12
So...... In this administration...... gun control GOOD. Thermonuclear warhead control BAD.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:56 AM (NaV4z)
AR15 in the hands of a law-abiding conservative US citizen = DOUBLEPLUSUNGOOD BURN THE WITCH
Thermonuclear warheads and ICBMs in the hands of illiterate Islamic savages who scream "Death to America" every day, slice off the heads of Christians just for being Christian, hang gays from construction cranes = GOODGOODGOODGOOD HONEYDEW AND GUMMY BEARS FOR EVERYONE!
So...... In this administration...... gun control GOOD. Thermonuclear warhead control BAD.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:56 AM (NaV4z)
AR15 in the hands of a law-abiding conservative US citizen = DOUBLEPLUSUNGOOD BURN THE WITCH
Thermonuclear warheads and ICBMs in the hands of illiterate Islamic savages who scream "Death to America" every day, slice off the heads of Christians just for being Christian, hang gays from construction cranes = GOODGOODGOODGOOD HONEYDEW AND GUMMY BEARS FOR EVERYONE!
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (SpnVI)
13
2
So...... In this administration...... gun control GOOD. Thermonuclear warhead control BAD.Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:56 AM (NaV4z) What if a gun could fire a small thermonuclear warhead? Thinking about that question would hurt his brain for a week trying to figure out which one mattered to him more.Just kidding. He'd be much more excited for a nuclear Iran.
So...... In this administration...... gun control GOOD. Thermonuclear warhead control BAD.Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:56 AM (NaV4z) What if a gun could fire a small thermonuclear warhead? Thinking about that question would hurt his brain for a week trying to figure out which one mattered to him more.Just kidding. He'd be much more excited for a nuclear Iran.
Posted by: Virginia Socon at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (+/C3g)
14
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, there has never been any good reason not to beat the shit out of Iran. I consider it a monumental failure by all parties that we are even in this position.
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (evdj2)
15
Much shorter version:
Sanctions are the modern variant of the siege. They can work, but sieges sometimes last years.
Obama is lifting the siege.
If we end up restarting the siege, we've lost all the previous years.
Sanctions are the modern variant of the siege. They can work, but sieges sometimes last years.
Obama is lifting the siege.
If we end up restarting the siege, we've lost all the previous years.
Posted by: Alan at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (uq4RW)
16
when the mullahs scream "DEATH TO THE JEWS AND DEATH TO AMERICA!!!", all Obama hears is his internal monologue.
Posted by: hack at April 20, 2015 12:02 PM (piR98)
17
Dang, I must have fed Pixy's hamster some bad alfalfa. I had returns in that comment (#13).
Posted by: Virginia Socon at April 20, 2015 12:02 PM (+/C3g)
18
What if a gun could fire a small thermonuclear warhead? Thinking about that question would hurt his brain for a week trying to figure out which one mattered to him more.Just kidding. He'd be much more excited for a nuclear Iran.
Posted by: Virginia Socon at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (+/C3g)
Davy Crockett.
Posted by: Virginia Socon at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (+/C3g)
Davy Crockett.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 12:03 PM (2Ojst)
19
when the mullahs scream "DEATH TO THE JEWS AND DEATH TO AMERICA!!!", all Obama hears is his internal monologue.
Posted by: hack at April 20, 2015 12:02 PM (piR9
That, and the opening prayer at a typical Ivy League faculty meeting.
when the mullahs scream "DEATH TO THE JEWS AND DEATH TO AMERICA!!!", all Obama hears is his internal monologue.
Posted by: hack at April 20, 2015 12:02 PM (piR9
That, and the opening prayer at a typical Ivy League faculty meeting.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 12:03 PM (SpnVI)
20
Washington, DC -- a coastal city minutes away from a nuclear tipped cruise missile fired from a freighter then flying 20 feet off the ocean, invisible from radar until it's too late.
Yeah let the crazy 'end times' regime have the bomb -- since they're *only* gonna use it on the Jews.
Obama thought process
Yeah let the crazy 'end times' regime have the bomb -- since they're *only* gonna use it on the Jews.
Obama thought process
Posted by: SE Pa Moron at April 20, 2015 12:03 PM (xQX/f)
21
Evil intent for the win.
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 12:04 PM (fWAjv)
22
While the world burns, we'll eventually find Obama holed up in a compound in Pockee-stahn.
Posted by: Fritz at April 20, 2015 12:04 PM (UzPAd)
23
personally I'm hoping the Saud's and Egyptians take care of Iran, It's in Their best interests also to see this failed ideology fail.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:05 PM (nqBYe)
24
If you try and give Barky the benefit of the doubt on this you have to be able to imagine a scenario in which this works out.
I don't see it. In no way can I imagine how this doesn't end badly. We all know this is going to happen. Is there a way for this to work out?
Maybe Israel will attack. No way that can turn into WW3.
I don't see it. In no way can I imagine how this doesn't end badly. We all know this is going to happen. Is there a way for this to work out?
Maybe Israel will attack. No way that can turn into WW3.
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 20, 2015 12:05 PM (X+nFp)
25
Washington, DC -- a coastal city minutes away from a nuclear tipped cruise missile fired from a freighter then flying 20 feet off the ocean, invisible from radar until it's too late.
----
You dont REALLY think Malaysia Air just *disappeared* do you???
We'll all see it again.... right before detonation.
----
You dont REALLY think Malaysia Air just *disappeared* do you???
We'll all see it again.... right before detonation.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 12:05 PM (NaV4z)
26
Im somewhat disappointed that you missed the "The GOP Sucks" angle of this story, Drew. Are you not feeling alright? Andy McCarthy has a good article over on NRO, which basicly calls the Corker bill a script for Failure Theatre.
Posted by: Harley Quinn at April 20, 2015 12:05 PM (/uG6B)
27
If I'm Israel, I'm thinking NOW is the best time to attack Iran.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:06 PM (QRz0C)
28
The puppet president (ValJar) was born in Iran.
Obama's purported father was a Shi'ite.
Huma Abedin, top advisor to our former SoS, has close family ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
So what part of this surprises us?
Obama's purported father was a Shi'ite.
Huma Abedin, top advisor to our former SoS, has close family ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
So what part of this surprises us?
Posted by: Kate58 at April 20, 2015 12:06 PM (MvtKs)
29
Washington, DC -- a coastal city minutes away from a nuclear tipped cruise missile fired from a freighter then flying 20 feet off the ocean, invisible from radar until it's too late.
Hell fly it in on a gyro-copter and land it at the Capital Building.
Hell fly it in on a gyro-copter and land it at the Capital Building.
Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 12:06 PM (kQBSd)
30
Maybe Israel will attack. No way that can turn into WW3.
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 20, 2015 12:05 PM (X+nFp)
That's a joke I hope?
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 20, 2015 12:05 PM (X+nFp)
That's a joke I hope?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:08 PM (rDqRv)
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (X+nFp)
32
Is he trying to push Israel into launching a strike against Iran?
Posted by: Paladin at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (LTquJ)
33
>>> History in the making kids...I'm going to suggest you read a Vox post in a non-ironic way.
Burn the witch!!
Burn the witch!!
Posted by: LizLem at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (yRwC8)
34
Pooty says their S300 system will be fully operational in a few months. If that's true, it has to be an incentive to Israel to take care of business NOW.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:10 PM (QRz0C)
35
Didn't think sarc tag was necessary.
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (X+nFp)
Oki Doki
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (X+nFp)
Oki Doki
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:10 PM (rDqRv)
36
So I read the Vox interview.
This is nothing new, many have been saying this and Obama has been making it obvious for years.
The one thing that struck me was Doran saying, If the Iranian regime and I do believe they are rational.
Because rational is relative.
I don't think they're rational in the same way, the US and the USSR were during the cold war.
I think they're rational in the jihadist Koranic way.
Which is very different to western eyes, pretty fucking irrational.
This is nothing new, many have been saying this and Obama has been making it obvious for years.
The one thing that struck me was Doran saying, If the Iranian regime and I do believe they are rational.
Because rational is relative.
I don't think they're rational in the same way, the US and the USSR were during the cold war.
I think they're rational in the jihadist Koranic way.
Which is very different to western eyes, pretty fucking irrational.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (AkOaV)
37
So instead of the US using a "friend" (used loosely in the geopolitical model) in Iraq to be the central player in mideast we are going to use an enemy.
I don't see a problem there at all.
I don't see a problem there at all.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (gmeXX)
38
wow i had to remove pretty much every piece of punctuation to get THAT to post.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (AkOaV)
39
let's not argue about who is going to kill who.
as long as the west doesn't win the argument.
as long as the west doesn't win the argument.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (nqBYe)
40
>>> In what possible world does Obama think the Sunni Arab states of the Gulf and wider region are going to accept a dominant Persian Shia power?
Hey look, I know he's had his ups and downs in his career, and acted stupidly, but Shia Labeuf is still an actor with great potential! Give your fellow white person a chance, people!
Hey look, I know he's had his ups and downs in his career, and acted stupidly, but Shia Labeuf is still an actor with great potential! Give your fellow white person a chance, people!
Posted by: Obama, in touch as always at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (yRwC8)
41
What can you say? You look at Obama and realize that once an A@#hole, always an A@#hole. SCOAMF doesn't begin to describe the train wreck that is Obozo.
Posted by: Comanche Voter at April 20, 2015 12:12 PM (Sda6L)
42
Only in Barry and Val's minds is Iran capable of being a responsible regional power.
It's crazy. Bat shit loony.
It's crazy. Bat shit loony.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:12 PM (LA7Cm)
43
"... that didn't work" because it was undermined by the current regime.
It kills me that somehow people expected we could leave Iraq after a couple years, when we are *STILL* in Japan and Germany. I'm not sure going into Iraq was a good idea in the first place - but I am certain leaving when we did and the way we did was a shameful and selfish act that unnecessarily harmed tens of thousands of innocent people for a short-term political gain of the pompous ass in the white house.
It kills me that somehow people expected we could leave Iraq after a couple years, when we are *STILL* in Japan and Germany. I'm not sure going into Iraq was a good idea in the first place - but I am certain leaving when we did and the way we did was a shameful and selfish act that unnecessarily harmed tens of thousands of innocent people for a short-term political gain of the pompous ass in the white house.
Posted by: fretless at April 20, 2015 12:13 PM (1Fnop)
44
42 Only in Barry and Val's minds is Iran capable of being a responsible regional power.
It's crazy. Bat shit loony.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:12 PM (LA7Cm)
Let's put Dahmer in charge of the prison kitchen. What could possibly go wrong?
It's crazy. Bat shit loony.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:12 PM (LA7Cm)
Let's put Dahmer in charge of the prison kitchen. What could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 12:13 PM (2Ojst)
45
It will be in a 40' standard container with GPS coordinates preprogrammed to the harbor of choice.
Easy-peasey, Infidels.
Easy-peasey, Infidels.
Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at April 20, 2015 12:13 PM (C4d1Y)
46
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (gmeXX)
Iraq was not our friend. Iran friendly Shia's were / are running Iraq, and didn't like that we told them not to slaughter their sunni neighbors.
Our only real, stable friend in the ME is Israel.
But historically we've worked closely with the gulf arabs and Egypt. But then the whole "mubarack must go" and the muslim bro'hood and all of that fun stuff....
Anyways, I think Obama, through his incredibly incompetence, is going to start a nuclear arms race in the ME / N Africa and unleash a jihadi shit storm unlike anything the world has seen in 500 years.
But we'll see.
Iraq was not our friend. Iran friendly Shia's were / are running Iraq, and didn't like that we told them not to slaughter their sunni neighbors.
Our only real, stable friend in the ME is Israel.
But historically we've worked closely with the gulf arabs and Egypt. But then the whole "mubarack must go" and the muslim bro'hood and all of that fun stuff....
Anyways, I think Obama, through his incredibly incompetence, is going to start a nuclear arms race in the ME / N Africa and unleash a jihadi shit storm unlike anything the world has seen in 500 years.
But we'll see.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:13 PM (AkOaV)
47
Apropos of nothing, the Stock Market is insane. Down 200+ on Friday, up 200+ at the open today. It's wobbling like a top.
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (evdj2)
48
Nobody cares about my well-being.
Posted by: 12th Imam at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (xQX/f)
49
so i guess Iran being threatening to peace is only unjust paranoia .
i suppose they could be peaceful intentions which is why they need the missiles sent from russia as a 'deterent' to the other crazy non peaceful nations.
i suppose they could be peaceful intentions which is why they need the missiles sent from russia as a 'deterent' to the other crazy non peaceful nations.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (nqBYe)
50
It kills me that somehow people expected we could leave Iraq after a couple years, when we are *STILL* in Japan and Germany. I'm not sure going into Iraq was a good idea in the first place - but I am certain leaving when we did and the way we did was a shameful and selfish act that unnecessarily harmed tens of thousands of innocent people for a short-term political gain of the pompous ass in the white house.
-----
We are still in Korea.
We are in a lot of parts of the world.
-----
We are still in Korea.
We are in a lot of parts of the world.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (gmeXX)
51
Anyways, I think Obama, through his incredibly incompetence, is going to start a nuclear arms race in the ME / N Africa and unleash a jihadi shit storm unlike anything the world has seen in 500 years.
But we'll see.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:13 PM (AkOaV)
It's already started. And once the genie is out of the bottle, it can NOT be put back in. THIS is 1000 times worse than Munich
But we'll see.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:13 PM (AkOaV)
It's already started. And once the genie is out of the bottle, it can NOT be put back in. THIS is 1000 times worse than Munich
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (rDqRv)
52
Even my far left, hippie, socialist German-turned-American friend offered yesterday, "Obama is the worst president this country has ever had."
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (fMQoG)
53
I think Iran should kidnap some Americans and just hold them until the next inauguration in 2017. Then, Carter will be off the hook for worst president evah.
Posted by: Roy at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (VndSC)
54
So today's a good day to go to cash in my 401K?
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (QRz0C)
55
Iraq was not our friend.
------
I used friend because I was typing quick and didn't want to come up with a better word. But that is why I put it in quotes and tried to explain it.
Is puppet a better word. Iraq was a country under our thumb. A regional ally - even if they didn't want to be.
------
I used friend because I was typing quick and didn't want to come up with a better word. But that is why I put it in quotes and tried to explain it.
Is puppet a better word. Iraq was a country under our thumb. A regional ally - even if they didn't want to be.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (gmeXX)
56
Maybe. 18,061.56 +235.26(+1.32%)
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 12:16 PM (evdj2)
57
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (evdj2)
Yeah, that's a healthy sign of economic stability.
"stock markets down, yellen."
"No big deal, let me fire up the old printing press here over the weekend and we'll get that fixed up in a jiffy. Tell JPMorgan we'll be wiring over a few billion first thing Monday morning"
"yes ma'am!"
Yeah, that's a healthy sign of economic stability.
"stock markets down, yellen."
"No big deal, let me fire up the old printing press here over the weekend and we'll get that fixed up in a jiffy. Tell JPMorgan we'll be wiring over a few billion first thing Monday morning"
"yes ma'am!"
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:16 PM (AkOaV)
58
i hope all feel good about themselves.
because that's what the last presidential elections were about i guess.
oh and Free BC!
because that's what the last presidential elections were about i guess.
oh and Free BC!
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:16 PM (nqBYe)
59
54 So today's a good day to go to cash in my 401K?
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (QRz0C)
Sure, if you only want to get about half its current value after taxes and early withdrawal penalties.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (QRz0C)
Sure, if you only want to get about half its current value after taxes and early withdrawal penalties.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 12:17 PM (2Ojst)
60
As I have said before the US has very few true friends - meaning countries we go to war with no matter what.
You named Israel as one - the others in my mind are Britain, Canada, and Australia.
Iraq is certainly not that. And I didn't mean to imply that in my use of the word friend.
You named Israel as one - the others in my mind are Britain, Canada, and Australia.
Iraq is certainly not that. And I didn't mean to imply that in my use of the word friend.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:17 PM (gmeXX)
61
Obama's also obsessed with righting America's "wrongs." Which is why he's kissing up to Cuba and Iran. He wants the adulations of restoring relations with these countries. And the reality of them doesn't matter. He must take America down a notch.
Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (zt+N6)
62
Even my far left, hippie, socialist German-turned-American friend offered yesterday, "Obama is the worst president this country has ever had."
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (fMQoG)
Welcome to the party, pal.
But seriously - how many times did he or she call you a racist for opposing the Mocha Messiah?
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (fMQoG)
Welcome to the party, pal.
But seriously - how many times did he or she call you a racist for opposing the Mocha Messiah?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (zF6Iw)
63
Apropos of nothing, the Stock Market is insane. Down 200+ on Friday, up 200+ at the open today. It's wobbling like a top.
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (evdj2)
Dreidel. Like a dreidel.
See? Teh Joos control the stock market! Booga booga booga!
/zerohedge
Apropos of nothing, the Stock Market is insane. Down 200+ on Friday, up 200+ at the open today. It's wobbling like a top.
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (evdj2)
Dreidel. Like a dreidel.
See? Teh Joos control the stock market! Booga booga booga!
/zerohedge
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (SpnVI)
64
Why, it's almost as if we have a guy in the White House whose father was a Shiite muslim!
Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (JgC5a)
65
I think we need a feel good story...
One day after a Michael Brown memorial tree was planted in Ferguson, Missouri, someone appears to have slashed it in half.
A memorial stone placed at the foot of the tree is also missing, according to a local news channel, which was planted by members of the Black Caucus of the American Library Association.
Caucus members had planted the tree in January Wabash Memorial Park on Saturday. But just one day later, community members found it cut. Police say they have no idea who desecrated the memorial.
Residents of the city were shocked.
One day after a Michael Brown memorial tree was planted in Ferguson, Missouri, someone appears to have slashed it in half.
A memorial stone placed at the foot of the tree is also missing, according to a local news channel, which was planted by members of the Black Caucus of the American Library Association.
Caucus members had planted the tree in January Wabash Memorial Park on Saturday. But just one day later, community members found it cut. Police say they have no idea who desecrated the memorial.
Residents of the city were shocked.
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (fWAjv)
66
so the shit will likely hit the fan sooner than later, and i never even received my ration of free shit.
what a ripoff.
what a ripoff.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (nqBYe)
67
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (gmeXX)
Fair enough.
But without the US military there uh, influencing, the leaders of Iraq, we were losing influence to the Iranians big time.
Iraq was / is destined to be a failed state. I'm not sure it's even fixable. The Sunnis make up most of the (sparsely populated) hinterlands, the Shia are in close to Baghdad in big numbers. And both groups hate each other.
Then you have the Sunni Kurds up north who are not fans of Sunni or Shia Arabs, and the Azerbaijani / Persian Shias on the Iran border who are not fans of the Kurds or Arabs either.
Very difficult to keep a country like that together, especially if you're doing a parliamentarian "democracy" type government and not the brutal dictator type government.
Fair enough.
But without the US military there uh, influencing, the leaders of Iraq, we were losing influence to the Iranians big time.
Iraq was / is destined to be a failed state. I'm not sure it's even fixable. The Sunnis make up most of the (sparsely populated) hinterlands, the Shia are in close to Baghdad in big numbers. And both groups hate each other.
Then you have the Sunni Kurds up north who are not fans of Sunni or Shia Arabs, and the Azerbaijani / Persian Shias on the Iran border who are not fans of the Kurds or Arabs either.
Very difficult to keep a country like that together, especially if you're doing a parliamentarian "democracy" type government and not the brutal dictator type government.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (AkOaV)
68
Because the Smartest Man In The World with the Smartest Diplomacy Evah has no freaking clue that Iranians are Persian and not Arab.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (mf5HN)
I met a lovely, very fiesty 20-something Iranian woman at a party recently; husband is here going to school and she is starting up school as well. Someone asked her where she was from and she said Persia. Not Iran, but Persia. I found that kind of fascinating. And she was utterly shocked that we actually knew where Persia was. I know it's shocking, but some Americans do know world history!
She made this dessert using rose water, corn starch, coconut and walnuts...cannot for the life of me remember what it was called but it was absolutely delectable.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (mf5HN)
I met a lovely, very fiesty 20-something Iranian woman at a party recently; husband is here going to school and she is starting up school as well. Someone asked her where she was from and she said Persia. Not Iran, but Persia. I found that kind of fascinating. And she was utterly shocked that we actually knew where Persia was. I know it's shocking, but some Americans do know world history!
She made this dessert using rose water, corn starch, coconut and walnuts...cannot for the life of me remember what it was called but it was absolutely delectable.
Posted by: LizLem at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (yRwC8)
69
All by design. The "incompetence" factor is only to supply plausible deniability to the US President's efforts to change the world as the Trans-national Progressives desire it.
Israel will attack Iran. A shit-storm like you wouldn't believe will be unleashed.
Will nukes fly? Who knows. Maybe.
All by design.
Israel will attack Iran. A shit-storm like you wouldn't believe will be unleashed.
Will nukes fly? Who knows. Maybe.
All by design.
Posted by: Big bada boom at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (o8HVd)
70
Why, it's almost as if we have a guy in the White House whose father was a Shiite muslim!
Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (JgC5a)
----
Frank Marshall Davis was a Muslim???
;-)
Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (JgC5a)
----
Frank Marshall Davis was a Muslim???
;-)
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (NaV4z)
71
Obama's also obsessed with righting America's "wrongs." Which is why he's kissing up to Cuba and Iran. He wants the adulations of restoring relations with these countries. And the reality of them doesn't matter. He must take America down a notch.
Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (zt+N6)
Wait till he gives back the Panama Canal....oh wait...never mind
Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (zt+N6)
Wait till he gives back the Panama Canal....oh wait...never mind
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (rDqRv)
72
Obama's the smartest man in the room, and Hilary is the smartest woman. How did those stupid memes even get started? A cursory listening to Obama speak without a teleprompter tells you all you need to know about his intelligence. When did the loser ever utter an original thought? And in the case of Hilary, since when did "cunning grifter" equate to genius?
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (fMQoG)
73
We tried to reorder the Mideast through regime and society change in Iraq. That didn't work.
----
I think what Bush really had in mind was a military presence for the next 50 years - you know like Korea. The other stuff was just salesmanship.
----
I think what Bush really had in mind was a military presence for the next 50 years - you know like Korea. The other stuff was just salesmanship.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (gmeXX)
74
so the shit will likely hit the fan sooner than later, and i never even received my ration of free shit.
what a ripoff.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (nqBYe)
Hell, I'm still waiting on the Skittles-shitting unicorn I was promised.
so the shit will likely hit the fan sooner than later, and i never even received my ration of free shit.
what a ripoff.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (nqBYe)
Hell, I'm still waiting on the Skittles-shitting unicorn I was promised.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (SpnVI)
75
all we need is a Woman to take become president now.
She will deal with these incorrigible rascals.
She will deal with these incorrigible rascals.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (nqBYe)
76
Welcome to the party, pal.
But seriously - how many times did he or she call you a racist for opposing the Mocha Messiah?
Which is why I cut no one any slack. Sweep the leg and go for the throat. I could have cut some slack after 2008. Everyone makes a mistake. But after 2012? NFW.
But seriously - how many times did he or she call you a racist for opposing the Mocha Messiah?
Which is why I cut no one any slack. Sweep the leg and go for the throat. I could have cut some slack after 2008. Everyone makes a mistake. But after 2012? NFW.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:21 PM (MtdoN)
77
Sure, if you only want to get about half its current value after taxes and early withdrawal penalties.>>>
With the way things are going and the likely hood they will tax them at a higher rate in 20 yrs (or just take hem over for the children). It may be a good plan to cash out now.
With the way things are going and the likely hood they will tax them at a higher rate in 20 yrs (or just take hem over for the children). It may be a good plan to cash out now.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 20, 2015 12:21 PM (wrS2o)
78
Iraq was / is destined to be a failed state.
-----
Iraq just needed to be the state with the US base.
-----
Iraq just needed to be the state with the US base.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:21 PM (gmeXX)
79
Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (JgC5a)
Obamas dad was from Kenya.
I think that would make him a Sunni Muslim. Also, O lived in Indonesia, which is also full of Sunnis.
Now, on the other hand, ValJar spent her formative years living in Iran... For what that's worth.
Obamas dad was from Kenya.
I think that would make him a Sunni Muslim. Also, O lived in Indonesia, which is also full of Sunnis.
Now, on the other hand, ValJar spent her formative years living in Iran... For what that's worth.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:21 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (kQBSd)
81
Teh Imbecile's plan is to setup MAD in the middle-east which in and of itself is mind-numbingly stupid given that our allies have the superior position currently. The difference between the US and the Soviet Cold War was that each side respected the seriousness and ramifications of a strike. The backward-ass stone-agers in tenuous control of the middle-east will certainly light the fuse at the first possible moment.
Obama is an absolute imbecile. Truly.
Obama is an absolute imbecile. Truly.
Posted by: dogfish at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (1vYi0)
82
I worked at a private Girls HS and We had two Iranian Girls. They absolutely would not admit to being Iranian they were Persian...
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (Bn6aD)
83
Illtempuredcur, I believe we've been deceived, and we will receive no checks , and nothing will be arriving in the mail . but perhaps the air will be where messages to us will be sent from.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (nqBYe)
84
Will nukes fly? Who knows. Maybe.
All by design.
Posted by: Big bada boom at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (o8HVd)
----
Word.
All by design.
Posted by: Big bada boom at April 20, 2015 12:19 PM (o8HVd)
----
Word.
Posted by: Revelations Chapters 8 thru 21 at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (NaV4z)
85
ty, wrg500
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (nqBYe)
86
Insomniac, I'm just thinking about getting out of stock funds and into cash. I'm not yet ready to bail out. I'm close, though.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (QRz0C)
87
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (gmeXX)
But we have bases in Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (well, temporary bases), Egypt, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, all over Africa, and we have usage of Israeli bases.
Iraq... eh.
But we have bases in Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (well, temporary bases), Egypt, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, all over Africa, and we have usage of Israeli bases.
Iraq... eh.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (AkOaV)
88
But seriously - how many times did he or she call you a racist for opposing the Mocha Messiah?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (zF6Iw)
Didn't hear racist, but did hear "right-wing fanatic" and "hater." Usually after he fell into one of my traps and would either be forced to admit I was right or resort to calling me names.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 20, 2015 12:18 PM (zF6Iw)
Didn't hear racist, but did hear "right-wing fanatic" and "hater." Usually after he fell into one of my traps and would either be forced to admit I was right or resort to calling me names.
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (fMQoG)
89
11 "Fredo has screwed the pooch for mankind on this one."
THIS.
The sheer magnitude of this awful policy will have few if any equals. All of humanity will get an enormous shit sandwich from this.
THIS.
The sheer magnitude of this awful policy will have few if any equals. All of humanity will get an enormous shit sandwich from this.
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (H8u6z)
90
And in the case of Hilary, since when did "cunning grifter" equate to genius?
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (fMQoG)
She isn't even a particularly smart criminal. You don't have to be when the MFM and DoJ won't lift a finger to stop you.
And in the case of Hilary, since when did "cunning grifter" equate to genius?
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (fMQoG)
She isn't even a particularly smart criminal. You don't have to be when the MFM and DoJ won't lift a finger to stop you.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (SpnVI)
91
82 I worked at a private Girls HS and We had two Iranian Girls. They absolutely would not admit to being Iranian they were Persian...
Yep, my b-I-l is "Persian". Don't call him Iranian.
Yep, my b-I-l is "Persian". Don't call him Iranian.
Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 12:24 PM (kQBSd)
92
grrrr.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:24 PM (nqBYe)
93
And in the case of Hilary, since when did "cunning grifter" equate to genius?
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (fMQoG
---
**whew**
The first time I read that it came out and "cunninglulis gifter"....
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (fMQoG
---
**whew**
The first time I read that it came out and "cunninglulis gifter"....
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (NaV4z)
94
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (Bn6aD)
"Iran" is the Farsi word for "Aryan".
The Persians wanted to show Europe (during the whole eugenics thing that was all the rage until, you know, concentration camps in Poland) that they were Aryan blood, and not semites like their stupid Arab neighbors.
Which is why they changed the name of their country from Persia to Iran.
But Persian is the ethnicity, Iran is the nationality.
"Iran" is the Farsi word for "Aryan".
The Persians wanted to show Europe (during the whole eugenics thing that was all the rage until, you know, concentration camps in Poland) that they were Aryan blood, and not semites like their stupid Arab neighbors.
Which is why they changed the name of their country from Persia to Iran.
But Persian is the ethnicity, Iran is the nationality.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (AkOaV)
95
all we need is a Woman to take become president now.
She will deal with these incorrigible rascals.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (nqBYe)
---
Yeah she will pinch Khameneis cheecks if he gets too cocky.
She will deal with these incorrigible rascals.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:20 PM (nqBYe)
---
Yeah she will pinch Khameneis cheecks if he gets too cocky.
Posted by: Harley Quinn at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (/uG6B)
96
Maybe the Middle East will end up one big sheet of glass after all. With the exception of Israel, I wouldn't care.
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (fMQoG)
97
I think what Bush really had in mind was a military presence for the next 50 years - you know like Korea. The other stuff was just salesmanship.
W wanted to prevent the formation of a caliphate, something that they've wanted for a long time.
TFG has undone all of that with his leftard friends like Code Pink. CP was all over the ME ahead of their Arab Spring massacres.
This misguided action to let Iran build nukes will come back to bite the world in the ass, much like Neville Chamberlain's bullshit "treaty" with Hitler.
W wanted to prevent the formation of a caliphate, something that they've wanted for a long time.
TFG has undone all of that with his leftard friends like Code Pink. CP was all over the ME ahead of their Arab Spring massacres.
This misguided action to let Iran build nukes will come back to bite the world in the ass, much like Neville Chamberlain's bullshit "treaty" with Hitler.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (0HooB)
98
Iraq... eh.
----
Yeah but we don't "control" those countries. We had an opportuntity to "control" Iraq. I have no clue whether it would have worked. But by 2008, I was willing to keep trying.
That being said - the country spoke - and the country is not willing to make those long term sacrafices. So be it. I think we gave up a lot after the sacrafices had already been won.
I have no desire to re-win them again.
----
Yeah but we don't "control" those countries. We had an opportuntity to "control" Iraq. I have no clue whether it would have worked. But by 2008, I was willing to keep trying.
That being said - the country spoke - and the country is not willing to make those long term sacrafices. So be it. I think we gave up a lot after the sacrafices had already been won.
I have no desire to re-win them again.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (gmeXX)
99
82 I worked at a private Girls HS
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (Bn6aD)
I thought lines like that usually started with, "I never thought this would happen to me, but..."
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:22 PM (Bn6aD)
I thought lines like that usually started with, "I never thought this would happen to me, but..."
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (vgIRn)
100
Good thing Jimmy Carter removed the Shah.....
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:26 PM (Bn6aD)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:26 PM (LA7Cm)
102
She made this dessert using rose water, corn starch, coconut and walnuts...cannot for the life of me remember what it was called but it was absolutely delectable.
Posted by: LizLem
In English it's called 'Turkish Delight.'
Posted by: LizLem
In English it's called 'Turkish Delight.'
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 20, 2015 12:26 PM (P55y/)
Posted by: nip at April 20, 2015 12:26 PM (a6Odp)
104
"They absolutely would not admit to being Iranian they were Persian... "
Yep, the Iranis I work with are "Persian" as well.
Yep, the Iranis I work with are "Persian" as well.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:27 PM (LA7Cm)
105
I thought lines like that usually started with, "I never thought this would happen to me, but..."
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (vgIRn)
You ain't right.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (vgIRn)
You ain't right.
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at April 20, 2015 12:28 PM (h4UbF)
106
With the way things are going and the likely hood they will tax them at a higher rate in 20 yrs (or just take hem over for the children). It may be a good plan to cash out now.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 20, 2015 12:21 PM (wrS2o)
No kidding. *swats the greedy feds away from my fledgling retirement accounts* Everyone says Roth IRA's are the best for someone my age. I have one, but I expect that even though they are SUPPOSED to be tax free when you withdraw them, by the time I'm old enough to use it I'll have to pay a tax on it anyway. Yaaaay me.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 20, 2015 12:21 PM (wrS2o)
No kidding. *swats the greedy feds away from my fledgling retirement accounts* Everyone says Roth IRA's are the best for someone my age. I have one, but I expect that even though they are SUPPOSED to be tax free when you withdraw them, by the time I'm old enough to use it I'll have to pay a tax on it anyway. Yaaaay me.
Posted by: LizLem at April 20, 2015 12:28 PM (yRwC8)
107
This is like one of those old silent movies where the Simon Legree-type villain lights the fuse to the powder keg, twirls his mustache, and then slinksaway, stage left.
Thanks to Obama and his precious PeaceAt Any Price legacy, thenext President, whether Hillary or one of our guys, is going to be a war president. No getting around it, not now.
Thanks to Obama and his precious PeaceAt Any Price legacy, thenext President, whether Hillary or one of our guys, is going to be a war president. No getting around it, not now.
Posted by: troyriser at April 20, 2015 12:28 PM (XHR9b)
108
all we need is a Woman to take become president now.
She will deal with these incorrigible rascals.
I kind of imagine them refusing to speak with her, demanding instead to deal only with her husband. (The MSM will paint this as a quaint custom of their people that must be indulged. The fymynysts will be AWOL.)
She will deal with these incorrigible rascals.
I kind of imagine them refusing to speak with her, demanding instead to deal only with her husband. (The MSM will paint this as a quaint custom of their people that must be indulged. The fymynysts will be AWOL.)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (ZKzrr)
109
"In English it's called 'Turkish Delight."
I wasn't sure whether that was sex pun or what.
No, real dessert item.
I wasn't sure whether that was sex pun or what.
No, real dessert item.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (LA7Cm)
110
Good thing Jimmy Carter removed the Shah.....
Posted by: hello
That dumb-ass is a huge reason for the destabilization of the region, and Iran in particular. Ever see pics on the 'net of Iran in the 50s, they were mildly pro-western and advancing a civilization. Now we have Islamic Rage Boys in charge.
Posted by: hello
That dumb-ass is a huge reason for the destabilization of the region, and Iran in particular. Ever see pics on the 'net of Iran in the 50s, they were mildly pro-western and advancing a civilization. Now we have Islamic Rage Boys in charge.
Posted by: dogfish at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (1vYi0)
111
86 Insomniac, I'm just thinking about getting out of stock funds and into cash. I'm not yet ready to bail out. I'm close, though.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (QRz0C)
Ah, clearly I misunderstood what you meant.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (QRz0C)
Ah, clearly I misunderstood what you meant.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (2Ojst)
112
That dumb-ass is a huge reason for the destabilization of the region, and Iran in particular. Ever see pics on the 'net of Iran in the 50s, they were mildly pro-western and advancing a civilization. Now we have Islamic Rage Boys in charge.
Yup...
Yup...
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (Bn6aD)
113
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (gmeXX)
I'm not trying to be combative, I guess my point is that no matter what we did, it was inevitable that we would eventually end up in this situation.
The middle east has always been and will always be a powderkeg of thousands of tribes with thousand year old grievances and hatred for their neighbors. And whoever the biggest tribe in town is at the moment (so it was the US in Iraq for a while) runs shit, but there are hundreds of power plays going on at all times to try to take over the mantle of "strongest tribe".
It's just an absolute shit hole.
The Greeks, Romans, Turks (Ottomans), French, and British and everyone else in between have not been able to "tame" the middle east / north africa, and have all learned the same lessons we are now learning. Which is that basically the best way to avoid a shit storm in the middle east is to avoid the middle east as much as possible, because shit storms are inevitable.
So Bush and his team were very naive if they thought they could "fix" the middle east.
I'm not trying to be combative, I guess my point is that no matter what we did, it was inevitable that we would eventually end up in this situation.
The middle east has always been and will always be a powderkeg of thousands of tribes with thousand year old grievances and hatred for their neighbors. And whoever the biggest tribe in town is at the moment (so it was the US in Iraq for a while) runs shit, but there are hundreds of power plays going on at all times to try to take over the mantle of "strongest tribe".
It's just an absolute shit hole.
The Greeks, Romans, Turks (Ottomans), French, and British and everyone else in between have not been able to "tame" the middle east / north africa, and have all learned the same lessons we are now learning. Which is that basically the best way to avoid a shit storm in the middle east is to avoid the middle east as much as possible, because shit storms are inevitable.
So Bush and his team were very naive if they thought they could "fix" the middle east.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:30 PM (AkOaV)
114
In English it's called 'Turkish Delight.'
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 20, 2015 12:26 PM (P55y/)
Would you like some? Then bring your siblings with you to Narnia.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 20, 2015 12:26 PM (P55y/)
Would you like some? Then bring your siblings with you to Narnia.
Posted by: The White Witch at April 20, 2015 12:30 PM (zt+N6)
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:30 PM (MtdoN)
116
Usually after he fell into one of my traps and would either be forced to admit I was right or resort to calling me names.
That's not really a left wing thing though. This is what happens to people who are convinced they are right, but can't answer an argument. So they go with their gut and lash out in fear and anger. Its a sort of fearbiting after being backed into a corner. They don't have the skills or intellectual maturity to form a response or fully examined worldview to consider what you're saying.
That's not really a left wing thing though. This is what happens to people who are convinced they are right, but can't answer an argument. So they go with their gut and lash out in fear and anger. Its a sort of fearbiting after being backed into a corner. They don't have the skills or intellectual maturity to form a response or fully examined worldview to consider what you're saying.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (39g3+)
117
***"And she was utterly shocked that we actually knew where Persia was. I
know it's shocking, but some Americans do know world history!"***
It should be shocking how much of the rest of the world doesn't know world history as much as you hear them denigrate American's knowledge. The fact is that the percentages of smart, knowledgeable people in all first world countries are roughly the same.
But it's easier to just punch up.
know it's shocking, but some Americans do know world history!"***
It should be shocking how much of the rest of the world doesn't know world history as much as you hear them denigrate American's knowledge. The fact is that the percentages of smart, knowledgeable people in all first world countries are roughly the same.
But it's easier to just punch up.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (xSCb6)
118
>>>OT, Saturday was Earth Day?<<<
Nothing says "earth first" like a bunch of dirty, flaky hippies drumming on a hobo pelt with a homemade tom-tom.
Nothing says "earth first" like a bunch of dirty, flaky hippies drumming on a hobo pelt with a homemade tom-tom.
Posted by: Fritz at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (UzPAd)
119
Yep, the Iranis I work with are "Persian" as well.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
The family I know would say so as well. Incredible what the the smart crowd of Carter and Obama have done to these people.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
The family I know would say so as well. Incredible what the the smart crowd of Carter and Obama have done to these people.
Posted by: dogfish at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (1vYi0)
120
Would you like some? Then bring your siblings with you to Narnia.
Yeah, that was an ill-considered scheme on her part.
Yeah, that was an ill-considered scheme on her part.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (39g3+)
121
And I think the Romans had the right idea. They got sick of the shit coming from North Africa, and look at how they handled Carthage.
It would make alleng proud.
It would make alleng proud.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:32 PM (AkOaV)
122
The U.S. should be backing Sisi in Egypt. But Sisi's not a muzzie lunatic, so, no.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 20, 2015 12:32 PM (8ZskC)
123
OT, Saturday was Earth Day?
V.I. Lenin's birthday is 4/22.
Scheduling his crap on a Saturday makes it harder for the bourgeois to weasel out of participation.
V.I. Lenin's birthday is 4/22.
Scheduling his crap on a Saturday makes it harder for the bourgeois to weasel out of participation.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 12:32 PM (ZKzrr)
124
"So Bush and his team were very naive if they thought they could "fix" the middle east."
About the only thing that keeps the M.E. tamed is a heavy handed dictator.
About the only thing that keeps the M.E. tamed is a heavy handed dictator.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:33 PM (LA7Cm)
125
The fymynysts will be AWOL.)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (ZKzrr)
well of course unless the missiles resemble a flying penis coming at them.
Than they'll blame all the men of the west for being the meanies that made Iran do 'it'.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (ZKzrr)
well of course unless the missiles resemble a flying penis coming at them.
Than they'll blame all the men of the west for being the meanies that made Iran do 'it'.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:33 PM (nqBYe)
126
If we can get the European Imperialists out of Africa and let Africa be Africa, then we can also get Western Civilization out of the Middle East and let them be Middle Eastern. And let China be China, and Russia be Russia.
Because that is the natural order of things.
Because that is the natural order of things.
Posted by: Agnus "Dude" Tanner at April 20, 2015 12:33 PM (9ggbp)
127
It should be shocking how much of the rest of the world doesn't know world history as much as you hear them denigrate American's knowledge. The fact is that the percentages of smart, knowledgeable people in all first world countries are roughly the same.
Oh yeah, there's no change in ignorance between nations, on average. The rest of the world is notably more racist than the US as well, but they've been told by talking heads, academics, and popular media that the US is the most racist place on the planet so that's what they repeat.
Its funny because the same people who know virtually nothing about the US but pontificate and lecture on it constantly to you are the ones who would call you "arrogant" for presuming you know anything about their country.
Oh yeah, there's no change in ignorance between nations, on average. The rest of the world is notably more racist than the US as well, but they've been told by talking heads, academics, and popular media that the US is the most racist place on the planet so that's what they repeat.
Its funny because the same people who know virtually nothing about the US but pontificate and lecture on it constantly to you are the ones who would call you "arrogant" for presuming you know anything about their country.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:33 PM (39g3+)
128
By in large, everybody knows this and has known it for a long time. What people haven't brought themselves to think about though, is why. Why would Obama be doing this?
That they can't bring themselves to believe that he is doing this on purpose, as part of a personal ideology, THAT is what is preventing people from coming to grips with the truth of the entire situation.
Going on seven years, people have resisted going where the evidence - all of the evidence - has pointed them, and that is that Obama sees himself as have a roll in the ascendance of Islam in the world and the decline of the west - especially the European west.
It was explicitly spelled out in his books.
What is amazing, in reality, is that the only stuff that was never hid about Obama was the only stuff people couldn't bring themselves to believe about him.
All of the stuff that was and remains hidden, are the only things that people have no problem believing.
That they can't bring themselves to believe that he is doing this on purpose, as part of a personal ideology, THAT is what is preventing people from coming to grips with the truth of the entire situation.
Going on seven years, people have resisted going where the evidence - all of the evidence - has pointed them, and that is that Obama sees himself as have a roll in the ascendance of Islam in the world and the decline of the west - especially the European west.
It was explicitly spelled out in his books.
What is amazing, in reality, is that the only stuff that was never hid about Obama was the only stuff people couldn't bring themselves to believe about him.
All of the stuff that was and remains hidden, are the only things that people have no problem believing.
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 20, 2015 12:34 PM (BZAd3)
129
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:33 PM (LA7Cm)
Correct.
And even that doesn't work GREAT, but it works better than the alternatives.
Allegedly the Turks (during the Ottoman days) used to send their Kurdish foot soldiers in to the Arab hinterlands from time to time to kill any restless natives. Then they'd line the roads in to and out of local villages with heads of their sons and brothers.
You know, just as a friendly reminder of who is in charge.
Correct.
And even that doesn't work GREAT, but it works better than the alternatives.
Allegedly the Turks (during the Ottoman days) used to send their Kurdish foot soldiers in to the Arab hinterlands from time to time to kill any restless natives. Then they'd line the roads in to and out of local villages with heads of their sons and brothers.
You know, just as a friendly reminder of who is in charge.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:35 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:35 PM (nqBYe)
131
It should be shocking how much of the rest of the world doesn't know world history as much as you hear them denigrate American's knowledge. The fact is that the percentages of smart, knowledgeable people in all first world countries are roughly the same.But it's easier to just punch up.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (xSCb6)
Of course for Europe, World History actually means European history which is local history for them.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (xSCb6)
Of course for Europe, World History actually means European history which is local history for them.
Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 12:35 PM (zt+N6)
132
I'm not trying to be combative, I guess my point is that no matter what we did, it was inevitable that we would eventually end up in this situation.
----
No worries - happy to debate.
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say. You may be entirely right that we were going to get to the same result at somepoint. Though later is better - IMO. I don't have a crystal ball.
"So Bush and his team were very naive if they thought they could "fix" the middle east."
I'm not sure that is what they were trying to do. Iraq was the bet country from which the US could expand its influence in the ME to make it "more" stable - by preventing the next Persian empire.
----
No worries - happy to debate.
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say. You may be entirely right that we were going to get to the same result at somepoint. Though later is better - IMO. I don't have a crystal ball.
"So Bush and his team were very naive if they thought they could "fix" the middle east."
I'm not sure that is what they were trying to do. Iraq was the bet country from which the US could expand its influence in the ME to make it "more" stable - by preventing the next Persian empire.
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:35 PM (gmeXX)
133
Any sufficiently advanced troll is indistinguishable from a genuine kook.
Posted by: Obama For-ks America at April 20, 2015 12:35 PM (e8kgV)
134
They don't have the skills or intellectual maturity
to form a response or fully examined worldview to consider what you're
saying.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (39g3+)
Thanks! Next time I get called a name, I'll shout out, "Quit your damned fear-biting!!"
to form a response or fully examined worldview to consider what you're
saying.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:31 PM (39g3+)
Thanks! Next time I get called a name, I'll shout out, "Quit your damned fear-biting!!"
Posted by: kathysaysso at April 20, 2015 12:36 PM (fMQoG)
135
So Bush and his team were very naive if they thought they could "fix" the middle east.
Maybe, but it was actually working until the left went full traitor. Libya voluntarily gave up its weapons, the rest of the region was much quieter and more scared. They understand overwhelming power and military might very well over there. Culturally you back the strong horse, as many have said. And until the left got into full 5th column gear, the US was clearly the strong horse.
Maybe, but it was actually working until the left went full traitor. Libya voluntarily gave up its weapons, the rest of the region was much quieter and more scared. They understand overwhelming power and military might very well over there. Culturally you back the strong horse, as many have said. And until the left got into full 5th column gear, the US was clearly the strong horse.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:36 PM (39g3+)
136
backwards boy that was a good post.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:36 PM (nqBYe)
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:37 PM (Bn6aD)
138
43 "... that didn't work" because it was undermined by the current regime.
It kills me that somehow people expected we could leave Iraq after a couple years, when we are *STILL* in Japan and Germany. I'm not sure going into Iraq was a good idea in the first place - but I am certain leaving when we did and the way we did was a shameful and selfish act that unnecessarily harmed tens of thousands of innocent people for a short-term political gain of the pompous ass in the white house.
------------------------
They don't teach 'Big Picture' at Punaho and Harvard. Who knew?
It kills me that somehow people expected we could leave Iraq after a couple years, when we are *STILL* in Japan and Germany. I'm not sure going into Iraq was a good idea in the first place - but I am certain leaving when we did and the way we did was a shameful and selfish act that unnecessarily harmed tens of thousands of innocent people for a short-term political gain of the pompous ass in the white house.
------------------------
They don't teach 'Big Picture' at Punaho and Harvard. Who knew?
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at April 20, 2015 12:37 PM (oDCMR)
139
Going on seven years, people have resisted going where the evidence - all of the evidence - has pointed them, and that is that Obama sees himself as have a roll in the ascendance of Islam in the world and the decline of the west - especially the European west.
I don't think he's so much pro-Muslim as anti-white/western/European. I think he's comfortable with and somewhat sympathetic toward Islam because of his childhood of course. I just think he's so hardcore screaming extremist radical left that he sees things exclusively in terms of the weak and the strong, the oppressed and the oppressor and thinks he's "evening the scales"
I don't think he's so much pro-Muslim as anti-white/western/European. I think he's comfortable with and somewhat sympathetic toward Islam because of his childhood of course. I just think he's so hardcore screaming extremist radical left that he sees things exclusively in terms of the weak and the strong, the oppressed and the oppressor and thinks he's "evening the scales"
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:38 PM (39g3+)
140
I don't think he's so much pro-Muslim as anti-white/western/European. I think he's comfortable with and somewhat sympathetic toward Islam because of his childhood of course. I just think he's so hardcore screaming extremist radical left that he sees things exclusively in terms of the weak and the strong, the oppressed and the oppressor and thinks he's "evening the scales"
Good point..
Good point..
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:39 PM (Bn6aD)
141
Maybe, but it was actually working until the left went full traitor. Libya voluntarily gave up its weapons, the rest of the region was much quieter and more scared. They understand overwhelming power and military might very well over there. Culturally you back the strong horse, as many have said. And until the left got into full 5th column gear, the US was clearly the strong horse.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:36 PM (39g3+)
I would add the media help, and the lack of backbone of other Republican Leadership getting on board the bash Bush ideas.
they were also very unhelpful in making the case.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:36 PM (39g3+)
I would add the media help, and the lack of backbone of other Republican Leadership getting on board the bash Bush ideas.
they were also very unhelpful in making the case.
Posted by: willow at April 20, 2015 12:39 PM (nqBYe)
142
But we have bases in Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia
(well, temporary bases), Egypt, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, all over
Africa, and we have usage of Israeli bases.
Iraq... eh.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (AkOaV)
**********************
We have been at war with Iran since 1979. One of the great benefits of both Afghanistan and Iraq is that we had bases on Iran's borders that did not depend upon aircraft carriers or aerial refueling. That gave us far more leverage for strategic encirclement and potential military action, not to mention support for unconventional activities and psyops and thousands of miles of wide-open borders. Both of those countries have exploitable commercial ties with Iran. If McCain had been elected in 2008, a conceivable outcome would have been increased pressure on the regime and increased effectiveness of sanctions. Perhaps even support of anti-regime elements within Iran, who knows. If Romney had been elected in 2012, there would have been some fixing to do, but it might still have been strategically salvageable. We have no one to blame but ourselves for electing the SCOAMF.
DrewM, go ahead and use that as a launching pad to blame the GOP. I know you want to. (ht Harley Quinn #26)
(well, temporary bases), Egypt, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, all over
Africa, and we have usage of Israeli bases.
Iraq... eh.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (AkOaV)
**********************
We have been at war with Iran since 1979. One of the great benefits of both Afghanistan and Iraq is that we had bases on Iran's borders that did not depend upon aircraft carriers or aerial refueling. That gave us far more leverage for strategic encirclement and potential military action, not to mention support for unconventional activities and psyops and thousands of miles of wide-open borders. Both of those countries have exploitable commercial ties with Iran. If McCain had been elected in 2008, a conceivable outcome would have been increased pressure on the regime and increased effectiveness of sanctions. Perhaps even support of anti-regime elements within Iran, who knows. If Romney had been elected in 2012, there would have been some fixing to do, but it might still have been strategically salvageable. We have no one to blame but ourselves for electing the SCOAMF.
DrewM, go ahead and use that as a launching pad to blame the GOP. I know you want to. (ht Harley Quinn #26)
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:39 PM (5f5bM)
143
backwards boy that was a good post.
Thanks, willow.
There are lots of truths. "Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it" is certainly one of them.
Those of us who can see what's coming are rightfully concerned with TFG's ME strategy. He is doing everything he can to construct a caliphate.
He is a moslem. At this point, there can be no doubt.
Thanks, willow.
There are lots of truths. "Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it" is certainly one of them.
Those of us who can see what's coming are rightfully concerned with TFG's ME strategy. He is doing everything he can to construct a caliphate.
He is a moslem. At this point, there can be no doubt.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 12:40 PM (0HooB)
144
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 20, 2015 12:34 PM (BZAd3)
Maybe that has somethign to do with it, but I think Obama just thinks hes "figured it out" and hes smarter than everyone else and he THINKS he sees a solution to "US meddling" and that that solution involves the Persians keeping the Arabs in check.
I don't think it's more complicated than that.
Maybe that has somethign to do with it, but I think Obama just thinks hes "figured it out" and hes smarter than everyone else and he THINKS he sees a solution to "US meddling" and that that solution involves the Persians keeping the Arabs in check.
I don't think it's more complicated than that.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:40 PM (AkOaV)
145
***"We have no one to blame but ourselves for electing the SCOAMF.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:39 PM (5f5bM)"***
Speak for yourself, dumbass.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:39 PM (5f5bM)"***
Speak for yourself, dumbass.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (xSCb6)
146
I think Obama thinks he can make Iran a regional power and keep them contained, which is bullshit. The Persians have historically been quite able and they are certainly capable of besting an overgrown, petulant man-child (and his puerile sycophants) in both politics and regional strategy. Couple that with the Persians embracing the aggressive bloodlust of the Muslim death cult and you have a horrible scenario with no positive outcomes. Blood will flow, it's just a matter of whose and how deep.
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (H8u6z)
147
I don't think he's so much pro-Muslim as anti- white/western/European. I think he's comfortable with and somewhat sympathetic toward Islam because of his childhood of course. I just think he's so hardcore screaming extremist radical left that he sees things
exclusively in terms of the weak and the strong, the oppressed and the oppressor and thinks he's "evening the scales"
"The most beautiful sound"
"If the winds shift against muzzies"
Things he's said, out in the open. Not hidden.
People still refuse to see what's in the open.
exclusively in terms of the weak and the strong, the oppressed and the oppressor and thinks he's "evening the scales"
"The most beautiful sound"
"If the winds shift against muzzies"
Things he's said, out in the open. Not hidden.
People still refuse to see what's in the open.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (MtdoN)
148
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:38 PM (39g3+)
Yep, I think that basically sums it up.
Yep, I think that basically sums it up.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (AkOaV)
149
So when this all unexpectedly devolves into Global Thermonuclear War will those of us who survive then be able to impeach President Clustercufk or would that option still be off the table? GOPe apologists please feel free to chime in on this question.
Posted by: An Observation at April 20, 2015 12:42 PM (nm9kI)
150
""The most beautiful sound"
"If the winds shift against muzzies"
Things he's said, out in the open."
"My Muslim faith....."
"If the winds shift against muzzies"
Things he's said, out in the open."
"My Muslim faith....."
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:43 PM (LA7Cm)
151
"In English it's called 'Turkish Delight."
I wasn't sure whether that was sex pun or what.
No, real dessert item.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (LA7Cm)
Lol.
And no it wasn't turkish delight. It was more like Halva? But at the same time not. My Google-fu is fail is morning, will have to ask for the name of the dessert and/or a recipe next time I see her.
I wasn't sure whether that was sex pun or what.
No, real dessert item.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:29 PM (LA7Cm)
Lol.
And no it wasn't turkish delight. It was more like Halva? But at the same time not. My Google-fu is fail is morning, will have to ask for the name of the dessert and/or a recipe next time I see her.
Posted by: LizLem at April 20, 2015 12:43 PM (yRwC8)
152
Posted by: SH at April 20, 2015 12:35 PM (gmeXX)
Possibly, but again, the Arabs are not to keen on being subjugated by the Persians, so I personally would not have been against letting that all play out and let them spend the 50 years shooting at each other and not at US.
But, you know, oil.
Possibly, but again, the Arabs are not to keen on being subjugated by the Persians, so I personally would not have been against letting that all play out and let them spend the 50 years shooting at each other and not at US.
But, you know, oil.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:44 PM (AkOaV)
153
He is a moslem. At this point, there can be no doubt.
My Husband always says that but I don't think so. He does seem to have leanings towards muslims, but I think that comes from His Indonesian up bringing. I think He's too self- centered to be into any Religion.... He's just trying to mold the World into what He thinks is correct. He's simply a Socialist , egotistical, small little Man .
He is a moslem. At this point, there can be no doubt.
My Husband always says that but I don't think so. He does seem to have leanings towards muslims, but I think that comes from His Indonesian up bringing. I think He's too self- centered to be into any Religion.... He's just trying to mold the World into what He thinks is correct. He's simply a Socialist , egotistical, small little Man .
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:44 PM (Bn6aD)
154
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:43 PM (LA7Cm)
reporter: "You mean your christian faith"
Obama: "right. Christian faith."
Heh. That was a great example of non-media bias.
reporter: "You mean your christian faith"
Obama: "right. Christian faith."
Heh. That was a great example of non-media bias.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:44 PM (AkOaV)
155
""The most beautiful sound"
"If the winds shift against muzzies"
Things he's said, out in the open."
"My Muslim faith....."
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
I'm claiming Rick Perry status. I knew there was a third one.
"If the winds shift against muzzies"
Things he's said, out in the open."
"My Muslim faith....."
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
I'm claiming Rick Perry status. I knew there was a third one.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:45 PM (MtdoN)
156
We have no one to blame but ourselves for electing the SCOAMF.
*blows whistle, bangs pots while pointing towards nic*
*blows whistle, bangs pots while pointing towards nic*
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 12:45 PM (0HooB)
157
I don't think he's so much pro-Muslim as anti-white/western/European. I think he's comfortable with and somewhat sympathetic toward Islam because of his childhood of course. I just think he's so hardcore screaming extremist radical left that he sees things exclusively in terms of the weak and the strong, the oppressed and the oppressor and thinks he's "evening the scales"
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:38 PM (39g3+)
From his writings and from the ideology of his mentors and from his early upbringing and from his often stated sympathies and taking into consideration those he surrounds himself with and from his inability to ascribe even the most minimal fault to Islam with respect to the barbarity that is taking place in the ME, I think it is a mistake to minimize his attachment to Islam.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:38 PM (39g3+)
From his writings and from the ideology of his mentors and from his early upbringing and from his often stated sympathies and taking into consideration those he surrounds himself with and from his inability to ascribe even the most minimal fault to Islam with respect to the barbarity that is taking place in the ME, I think it is a mistake to minimize his attachment to Islam.
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 20, 2015 12:45 PM (BZAd3)
158
"Iran" is the Farsi word for "Aryan".
The Persians wanted to show Europe (during the whole eugenics thing
that was all the rage until, you know, concentration camps in Poland)
that they were Aryan blood, and not semites like their stupid Arab
neighbors.
Which is why they changed the name of their country from Persia to Iran.
But Persian is the ethnicity, Iran is the nationality.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (AkOaV)
*********************
And technically, the language is called "Persian" too, not "Farsi." That would be like calling Spanish "Espanol" or German "Deutsch." We don't do that. We should call the language Persian.
The Persians wanted to show Europe (during the whole eugenics thing
that was all the rage until, you know, concentration camps in Poland)
that they were Aryan blood, and not semites like their stupid Arab
neighbors.
Which is why they changed the name of their country from Persia to Iran.
But Persian is the ethnicity, Iran is the nationality.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:25 PM (AkOaV)
*********************
And technically, the language is called "Persian" too, not "Farsi." That would be like calling Spanish "Espanol" or German "Deutsch." We don't do that. We should call the language Persian.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:46 PM (5f5bM)
159
I think Obama definitely has some sympathies toward the Muslim ummah, but he's too "smart, sophisticated" whatever to be tied down by a religion.
I think he's more of the new agey semi atheist "spiritual" soft-religious socialist better than those bible thumpers type. Like pretty much all of his ivy league peers.
I think he's more of the new agey semi atheist "spiritual" soft-religious socialist better than those bible thumpers type. Like pretty much all of his ivy league peers.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:47 PM (AkOaV)
160
"We tried to reorder the Mideast through regime and society change in Iraq."
No, ace, we didn't. We took out an intolerable, uncontainable threat. Only reason Iraq regime was taken out. Needed to be done (if one was playing the odds smartly).
Wider effects were/would be pure gravy. Oh, and ironically BTW, one place there definitely WAS an echo effect, in our great interest, was Iran - where the unrest was materially related to our offing the Ba'athist regime in Baghdad. But that was, as you know, infamously squandered by the affirmative action intern in the Oval Office.
Also, I keep seeing that the idiot is trying to set up Iran as some sort of new guarantor of order. I don't see the slightest evidence of that.
He is simply abandoning the already-limp war against Iran which is a response to their 30+ year war on us and our allies. I see no sign, even in terms dumb enough to be conceived by the likes of Obama, Rice, and Kerry, that he is looking to any sort of regional order of any sort. Maybe I'm just missing something, but huh?
No, ace, we didn't. We took out an intolerable, uncontainable threat. Only reason Iraq regime was taken out. Needed to be done (if one was playing the odds smartly).
Wider effects were/would be pure gravy. Oh, and ironically BTW, one place there definitely WAS an echo effect, in our great interest, was Iran - where the unrest was materially related to our offing the Ba'athist regime in Baghdad. But that was, as you know, infamously squandered by the affirmative action intern in the Oval Office.
Also, I keep seeing that the idiot is trying to set up Iran as some sort of new guarantor of order. I don't see the slightest evidence of that.
He is simply abandoning the already-limp war against Iran which is a response to their 30+ year war on us and our allies. I see no sign, even in terms dumb enough to be conceived by the likes of Obama, Rice, and Kerry, that he is looking to any sort of regional order of any sort. Maybe I'm just missing something, but huh?
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:47 PM (afQnV)
161
I think it is a mistake to minimize his attachment to Islam.
Even the name doesn't help. "Barack Hussein"
Even the name doesn't help. "Barack Hussein"
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:47 PM (MtdoN)
162
He is doing everything he can to construct a caliphate.
I agree with this, but I believe he sees it as empowering an oppressed group which will make them stop being so angry and lashing out with terrorism. He thinks, I believe, that these guys are using terrorism and hacking heads off out of justified rage and helpless fury against oppressors in the west who have been so very mean to them. Once they have a superpower and can stop being treated poorly by the west, they'll stop all that icky stuff. I think that's what he believes.
His religion isn't Islam, whatever nonsense he says. I mean, nobody took Kennedy seriously when he said he was a Berliner. His religion is Obamaism where he's the messiah who will cause the seas to stop rising and can do no wrong. His doctrine is basic western communist radicalism, not Islam.
I agree with this, but I believe he sees it as empowering an oppressed group which will make them stop being so angry and lashing out with terrorism. He thinks, I believe, that these guys are using terrorism and hacking heads off out of justified rage and helpless fury against oppressors in the west who have been so very mean to them. Once they have a superpower and can stop being treated poorly by the west, they'll stop all that icky stuff. I think that's what he believes.
His religion isn't Islam, whatever nonsense he says. I mean, nobody took Kennedy seriously when he said he was a Berliner. His religion is Obamaism where he's the messiah who will cause the seas to stop rising and can do no wrong. His doctrine is basic western communist radicalism, not Islam.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:48 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 12:48 PM (Bn6aD)
164
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:46 PM (5f5bM)
Well, okay.
In Farsi, the language is known as Farsi, the people are known as Persians.
But yes, traditionally the West has used "Persian" to describe the language as well as the people. Both terms are fairly interchangeable for non-Farsi / Persian speakers.
Well, okay.
In Farsi, the language is known as Farsi, the people are known as Persians.
But yes, traditionally the West has used "Persian" to describe the language as well as the people. Both terms are fairly interchangeable for non-Farsi / Persian speakers.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:48 PM (AkOaV)
165
The sad thing is the Jews will be blamed, no matter what happens.
Posted by: Baldy at April 20, 2015 12:49 PM (sEXjW)
166
And technically, the language is called "Persian" too, not "Farsi." That would be like calling Spanish "Espanol" or German "Deutsch." We don't do that. We should call the language Persian.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:46 PM (5f5bM)
Blaphemer!
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:46 PM (5f5bM)
Blaphemer!
Posted by: Journalists that pronounce Nicaragua "NEEhuaragwa" at April 20, 2015 12:49 PM (yRwC8)
167
Obama is sympathetic to Muslims, but I don't believe he is one-not really--and I don't believe he wants to start WW3. If he were truly that evil, there would be ways of dealing with him.
No, it's worse than that. He's blundering his way towards WW3 because he's stupid and all he wants is to wave a piece of paper around and say, "Look what I accomplished!!".That's all it is. It's like Obamacare which will eventually bankrupt the economy. He just wanted his name on something. His "signature acheivement ." (Which is why the GOP will never repeal it--not as long as it's known as "Obamacare.")
No, it's worse than that. He's blundering his way towards WW3 because he's stupid and all he wants is to wave a piece of paper around and say, "Look what I accomplished!!".That's all it is. It's like Obamacare which will eventually bankrupt the economy. He just wanted his name on something. His "signature acheivement ." (Which is why the GOP will never repeal it--not as long as it's known as "Obamacare.")
Posted by: JoeF. at April 20, 2015 12:50 PM (hG7m8)
168
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:47 PM (afQnV)
Drew, not ace.
Also, you could use that argument to take out damned near every regime in the middle east.
The thing is though... Saddam kept these jihadi types in gulags and they were not a threat to us when he was in power.
Yes, he was a threat to his neighbors. Yes, he did try to kill H.W. Yes, he did suck.
BUT... eh...
Drew, not ace.
Also, you could use that argument to take out damned near every regime in the middle east.
The thing is though... Saddam kept these jihadi types in gulags and they were not a threat to us when he was in power.
Yes, he was a threat to his neighbors. Yes, he did try to kill H.W. Yes, he did suck.
BUT... eh...
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:51 PM (AkOaV)
169
That would be like calling...or German "Deutsch." We don't do that. We should call the language Persian. We should call the language Persian.
-------
Agreed so long as there is an exception for Pennsylvania.
-------
Agreed so long as there is an exception for Pennsylvania.
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 12:51 PM (NUqwG)
170
Maybe, but it was actually working until the left went full traitor. Libya voluntarily gave up its weapons, the rest of the region was much quieter and more scared. They understand overwhelming power and military might very well over there. Culturally you back the strong horse, as many have said. And until the left got into full 5th column gear, the US was clearly the strong horse.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:36 PM (39g3+)
I'm only half joking when I say history will damn W for not hanging the entire Democrat leadership for treason.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:36 PM (39g3+)
I'm only half joking when I say history will damn W for not hanging the entire Democrat leadership for treason.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 20, 2015 12:52 PM (zF6Iw)
171
If he were truly that evil, there would be ways of dealing with him. No, it's worse than that. He's blundering his way towards WW3 because he's stupid
I agree. People are mistaking stupidity, incompetence, and a really foolish worldview and ideology for malice. He's not trying to be a mustache twirling villain, he thinks he's wise and good and smart and doing the right thing in the face of evil opposition. President Obama is a classic example of someone too much a zealot to even see his own limitations, largely because his entire life he's been overpromoted, overestimated, and given everything with huge stacks of praise.
I agree. People are mistaking stupidity, incompetence, and a really foolish worldview and ideology for malice. He's not trying to be a mustache twirling villain, he thinks he's wise and good and smart and doing the right thing in the face of evil opposition. President Obama is a classic example of someone too much a zealot to even see his own limitations, largely because his entire life he's been overpromoted, overestimated, and given everything with huge stacks of praise.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (39g3+)
172
Anyone remember this place? Something must have gone wrong..
This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle.
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This precious stone set in the silver sea.
This blessèd plot, this earth, this realm, this England...
- William Shakespeare (1564-1616)
This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle.
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This precious stone set in the silver sea.
This blessèd plot, this earth, this realm, this England...
- William Shakespeare (1564-1616)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (XmQBO)
173
It's like Obamacare which will eventually bankrupt the economy. He just wanted his name on something. His "signature acheivement."
(Which is why the GOP will never repeal it-- not as long as it's known as "Obamacare.")
#LetItCrash&Burn
And let it forevermore be known as Bankrupt Obamacare.
(Which is why the GOP will never repeal it-- not as long as it's known as "Obamacare.")
#LetItCrash&Burn
And let it forevermore be known as Bankrupt Obamacare.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (MtdoN)
174
Christopher Taylor for the win. Obama religious? Are you kidding me?
Sympathy for SOME Muslims (not so much the US-allied regimes) because of generic anti-western, anti-US, instincts and ignorance, not any attachment to Islam in any sense.
Sympathy for SOME Muslims (not so much the US-allied regimes) because of generic anti-western, anti-US, instincts and ignorance, not any attachment to Islam in any sense.
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (afQnV)
175
I don't really give a rat's ass about Fredo's motivation. He is going to get us all killed or worse, and THAT is the bottom line
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (rDqRv)
176
"Agreed so long as there is an exception for Pennsylvania."
Nebraska will also agree. For one beellion dollahrs.
Nebraska will also agree. For one beellion dollahrs.
Posted by: Ben Nelson at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (QRz0C)
177
Posted by: JoeF. at April 20, 2015 12:50 PM (hG7m
Yeah, I think his big ego + his incompetence + the incompetence of his ass kissing yes men he's surrounding with explain the foreign policy situation better than "Obamas a Muslim."
I don't think the man believes in god, reads a holy book, or anything like that. I think he's an ego maniac who thinks hes too smart for religion and that he's just a "spiritual" type. Kind of like how he defined sin as "anything that goes against my values."
that's his religiousy view. Uses religious terms, but basically is an atheisty new worldy eastern spiritualist like everyone else in his social class.
Yeah, I think his big ego + his incompetence + the incompetence of his ass kissing yes men he's surrounding with explain the foreign policy situation better than "Obamas a Muslim."
I don't think the man believes in god, reads a holy book, or anything like that. I think he's an ego maniac who thinks hes too smart for religion and that he's just a "spiritual" type. Kind of like how he defined sin as "anything that goes against my values."
that's his religiousy view. Uses religious terms, but basically is an atheisty new worldy eastern spiritualist like everyone else in his social class.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (AkOaV)
178
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:48 PM (39g3+)
I can't disagree with your assessment too terribly much, CT.
It just so happens that he's busy making life very comfortable with moslems, who just so happen to want to conquer us and fly their flag over a sharia-controlled United States of islam.
In another historical time, Hitler curried favor with imams. Just sayin'...
It appears as though the world is looking at the Truth of TFG and still can't believe what it's seeing: He's a muzzie enabler. His actions cannot be interpreted any other way.
That makes him a moslem.
I can't disagree with your assessment too terribly much, CT.
It just so happens that he's busy making life very comfortable with moslems, who just so happen to want to conquer us and fly their flag over a sharia-controlled United States of islam.
In another historical time, Hitler curried favor with imams. Just sayin'...
It appears as though the world is looking at the Truth of TFG and still can't believe what it's seeing: He's a muzzie enabler. His actions cannot be interpreted any other way.
That makes him a moslem.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 12:54 PM (0HooB)
179
Speak for yourself, dumbass.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (xSCb6)
***********************
Really? I was election judge in a strong conservative precinct in 2008. We had about 3300 votes for most of the Republican candidates and about 3000 for McCain. Those 300 people didn't vote for Obama, they just didn't cast a vote for President. In the 2012 election, there were hundreds of thousands of people who stayed home because he was a Mormon. I can't say whether in either case they tipped the scales, but you might ask DrewM, resident Republican hater, how he feels about it. We get a daily dose on this here website of Let it Burn and why Ace is now a Democrat. That all started with talk radio before 2008, and really before 2004. You makes your bed, you sleeps in it. To the extent that we still have a republic where low information voters who matter get at least some of this drivel about how there's no difference between the two parties, and especially to the extent where there are high information voters who espouse it and profess to believe it, it is dangerous. You asked for it, you got it. Enjoy watching the nukes go off.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (xSCb6)
***********************
Really? I was election judge in a strong conservative precinct in 2008. We had about 3300 votes for most of the Republican candidates and about 3000 for McCain. Those 300 people didn't vote for Obama, they just didn't cast a vote for President. In the 2012 election, there were hundreds of thousands of people who stayed home because he was a Mormon. I can't say whether in either case they tipped the scales, but you might ask DrewM, resident Republican hater, how he feels about it. We get a daily dose on this here website of Let it Burn and why Ace is now a Democrat. That all started with talk radio before 2008, and really before 2004. You makes your bed, you sleeps in it. To the extent that we still have a republic where low information voters who matter get at least some of this drivel about how there's no difference between the two parties, and especially to the extent where there are high information voters who espouse it and profess to believe it, it is dangerous. You asked for it, you got it. Enjoy watching the nukes go off.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:55 PM (5f5bM)
180
I'm only half joking when I say history will damn W for not hanging the entire Democrat leadership for treason.
Frankly the restraint and lack of action by the military astounded me. Its one thing to protest but they went way, WAY beyond that to outright, deliberate, specific, and blatant encouragement of the enemy and attacking their own side. The left was treasonous to an astounding degree. I don't even care why they did it or who was right. They went too far and never paid a price.
Frankly the restraint and lack of action by the military astounded me. Its one thing to protest but they went way, WAY beyond that to outright, deliberate, specific, and blatant encouragement of the enemy and attacking their own side. The left was treasonous to an astounding degree. I don't even care why they did it or who was right. They went too far and never paid a price.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:55 PM (39g3+)
181
***"Journalists that pronounce Nicaragua "NEEhuaragwa"***
Because
to Leftists and Journolists (BIRM) getting the accent is more important
than getting all the facts and understanding the underlying dynamics.
"See! I understand the culture, so you can trust me!"
Because
to Leftists and Journolists (BIRM) getting the accent is more important
than getting all the facts and understanding the underlying dynamics.
"See! I understand the culture, so you can trust me!"
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:55 PM (xSCb6)
182
reporter: "You mean your christian faith"
Obama: "right. Christian faith."
Heh. That was a great example of non-media bias.
You mean you don't think little Georgie would have helped out a Republican the same way?
Me neither.
Obama: "right. Christian faith."
Heh. That was a great example of non-media bias.
You mean you don't think little Georgie would have helped out a Republican the same way?
Me neither.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 20, 2015 12:56 PM (W5DcG)
183
Saddam would still be in power if he played ball with us. All he had to do was get rid of his WMD program--or pretend he was. But it was more important to him to be the alpha male of his region; he wanted the biggest dick in that part of the world and he never believed that Bush would have the balls to actually invade Ira and topple his regime. He was in denial until the very moment the missiles rained hell on Bahgdad. He could have kissed our ass--and he'd still be there. But he couldn't help himself. He's an Arab after all....
Posted by: JoeF. at April 20, 2015 12:56 PM (hG7m8)
184
Game moved to Thursday, I now have a day off, leftover fried chicken and some beers in the fridge, let's see if I can't find a way to combine the three...
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 20, 2015 12:56 PM (2cS/G)
185
She made this dessert using rose water, corn starch, coconut and walnuts...cannot for the life of me remember what it was called
My cardiologist probably calls "down payment on my 2nd vacation home".
My cardiologist probably calls "down payment on my 2nd vacation home".
Posted by: physics geek at April 20, 2015 12:57 PM (MT22W)
186
Saddam would still be in power if he played ball with us. All he had to do was get rid of his WMD program--or pretend he was. But it was more important to him to be the alpha male of his region; he wanted the biggest dick in that part of the world and he never believed that Bush would have the balls to actually invade Ira and topple his regime. He was in denial until the very moment the missiles rained hell on Bahgdad. He could have kissed our ass--and he'd still be there. But he couldn't help himself. He's an Arab after all....
Posted by: JoeF. at April 20, 2015 12:56 PM (hG7m
Yup
Posted by: JoeF. at April 20, 2015 12:56 PM (hG7m
Yup
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:57 PM (rDqRv)
187
***"Speak for yourself, dumbass.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (xSCb6)
***********************
Really?
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:55 PM (5f5bM)"***
Really.
Next question.
Oh, and you can tack on me calling bullshit on your little story. Bullshit on a few levels.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:41 PM (xSCb6)
***********************
Really?
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:55 PM (5f5bM)"***
Really.
Next question.
Oh, and you can tack on me calling bullshit on your little story. Bullshit on a few levels.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 12:57 PM (xSCb6)
188
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:55 PM (5f5bM)
Prove it.
The part about people not voting for Romney because of his religion.
I've been fairly active on conservative blogs for a while now, I've never heard anyone (seriously) say, "I will not / did not vote for Romney because he's a member of the Mormon cult." (or whatever).
I know people who didn't vote for Romney because he wasn't a conservative, but I've never heard anyone say they didn't vote for him because of his religion.
You know, Kennedy tried to pull the same shit. Said Democrats didn't support him because he was a Catholic (papist). I've still not seen any proof of that beyond a few anecdotes, 60 years later.
Prove it.
The part about people not voting for Romney because of his religion.
I've been fairly active on conservative blogs for a while now, I've never heard anyone (seriously) say, "I will not / did not vote for Romney because he's a member of the Mormon cult." (or whatever).
I know people who didn't vote for Romney because he wasn't a conservative, but I've never heard anyone say they didn't vote for him because of his religion.
You know, Kennedy tried to pull the same shit. Said Democrats didn't support him because he was a Catholic (papist). I've still not seen any proof of that beyond a few anecdotes, 60 years later.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:58 PM (AkOaV)
189
It appears as though the world is looking at the Truth of TFG and still can't believe what it's seeing: He's a muzzie enabler. His actions cannot be interpreted any other way. That makes him a moslem.
Muzzies only see black & white. You either ARE a muzzie, or you are not. No shades. No options. No others accepted.
Muzzies only see black & white. You either ARE a muzzie, or you are not. No shades. No options. No others accepted.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:58 PM (MtdoN)
190
But Obama is the smartest man in the world or something so I'm sure it'll be fine.
_____________________________
No, Obama just knows that he will be out of office when his Iranian mess blows up in the next president's face, and that suits this narcissistic, incompetent, malevolent a-hole just fine.
_____________________________
No, Obama just knows that he will be out of office when his Iranian mess blows up in the next president's face, and that suits this narcissistic, incompetent, malevolent a-hole just fine.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 20, 2015 12:58 PM (lmdHn)
191
W was talking about this this weekend. I think he has told "his" people to start very vocally criticsizin get the president on this issue. Because it really really hurts Hillary. Hillary will have to disavow the president and crap on her own legacy. She won't be able to do it. They are talking now, after allllll these years to hurt Hillary. And in their minds "help" Jeb
Posted by: ThunderB, Real Housewives Let Kids Play Outside at April 20, 2015 12:58 PM (zOTsN)
192
I don't really give a rat's ass about Fredo's motivation. He is going to get us all killed or worse, and THAT is the bottom line
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (rDqRv)
That is correct and exactly as planned
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 12:53 PM (rDqRv)
That is correct and exactly as planned
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at April 20, 2015 12:58 PM (R8hU8)
Posted by: stoners everywhere at April 20, 2015 12:59 PM (AkOaV)
194
Saddam would still be in power if he played ball with us. All he had to do was get rid of his WMD program--or pretend he was.
If Barack Obama was in the same place, he'd react the same way, too. Not exactly the same tactics and language, but the same attitude: I'm right in the face of everything, no matter what. Don't call my bluff.
If Barack Obama was in the same place, he'd react the same way, too. Not exactly the same tactics and language, but the same attitude: I'm right in the face of everything, no matter what. Don't call my bluff.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:59 PM (39g3+)
195
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 12:55 PM (5f5bM)
So, basically, if I didn't vote for Romney because I considered him a water-weak, colluding RINO who'd bend over backwards to espouse "compromise" with the asshole Dems, then I enthusiastically cast my vote for TFG?
Here's a thought - maybe the GOP should put up some candidates who do more than shuffle their feet and hunch their shoulders when the Dems and MFM (BIRM) sucker punch them 24 /7.
So, basically, if I didn't vote for Romney because I considered him a water-weak, colluding RINO who'd bend over backwards to espouse "compromise" with the asshole Dems, then I enthusiastically cast my vote for TFG?
Here's a thought - maybe the GOP should put up some candidates who do more than shuffle their feet and hunch their shoulders when the Dems and MFM (BIRM) sucker punch them 24 /7.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 20, 2015 01:00 PM (zF6Iw)
196
Impeachment is still off the table, baggerz!
Posted by: Bitch McConnell with a Dick in His Mouth at April 20, 2015 01:00 PM (QRz0C)
197
Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 12:58 PM (MtdoN)
No, the part that makes him a Muslim (in the eyes of the ummah) is that is dad was a Muslim.
Which, honestly, has had me thinking lately. Why isn't there a fatwa out against Obama? I mean, the worst kind of kafir is the kind that is born Muslim, but converts to another religion. No jizya for you, the Koran says death penalty.
No, the part that makes him a Muslim (in the eyes of the ummah) is that is dad was a Muslim.
Which, honestly, has had me thinking lately. Why isn't there a fatwa out against Obama? I mean, the worst kind of kafir is the kind that is born Muslim, but converts to another religion. No jizya for you, the Koran says death penalty.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 01:00 PM (AkOaV)
198
***"We took out an intolerable, uncontainable threat.
Only reason Iraq regime was taken out. Needed to be done (if one was
playing the odds smartly).
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:47 PM (afQnV)"***
Intolerable? Sure.
Uncontainable? Hardly.
Only reason Iraq regime was taken out. Needed to be done (if one was
playing the odds smartly).
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:47 PM (afQnV)"***
Intolerable? Sure.
Uncontainable? Hardly.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 01:01 PM (xSCb6)
199
Why are we arguing about Romney? It's Wendel Wilkie that really fucked us
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 20, 2015 01:01 PM (rDqRv)
200
Saddam would still be in power if he played ball with us. All he had to do was get rid of his WMD program--or pretend he was.
---------
Or cooperate with UN inspectors to verify no program... Publicly available evidence now points to not much in the way of any WMD programs in Iraq in 2003 regardless of what Saddam Hussein and Western intelligence services may have believed at the time.
But to overthrow a nut versus building a non-existent nation...
---------
Or cooperate with UN inspectors to verify no program... Publicly available evidence now points to not much in the way of any WMD programs in Iraq in 2003 regardless of what Saddam Hussein and Western intelligence services may have believed at the time.
But to overthrow a nut versus building a non-existent nation...
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 01:02 PM (NUqwG)
201
nood
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 20, 2015 01:02 PM (X+nFp)
202
Nood. Someone fetch willow...
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 01:02 PM (0HooB)
203
Posted by: JoeF. at April 20, 2015 12:56 PM (hG7m
Well, in Saddams defense, he did claim he got rid of all of his chemical weapons... which turned out to be mostly true.
The Russkies claim they had satellite video of convoys of tanker trucks heading in to Syria in the ramp up to the Iraq war. So, uh... yeah, Saddam was probably telling us the truth (technically) that *he* didn't have any chemical weapons.
We still invaded, though.
Well, in Saddams defense, he did claim he got rid of all of his chemical weapons... which turned out to be mostly true.
The Russkies claim they had satellite video of convoys of tanker trucks heading in to Syria in the ramp up to the Iraq war. So, uh... yeah, Saddam was probably telling us the truth (technically) that *he* didn't have any chemical weapons.
We still invaded, though.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 01:03 PM (AkOaV)
204
Saddam kept these jihadi types in gulags and they were not a threat to us when he was in power.
I know that's the standard leftist media talking point, but Abu Nidal might disagree.
In fact, not to verge too far into conspiracy territory, but an OKC reporter named Jayna Davis makes a pretty persuasive case that Iraq was behind the OKC bombing and the Clinton Administation covered it up because, you know, they might have had to do something about it.
http://www.jaynadavis.com/
I know that's the standard leftist media talking point, but Abu Nidal might disagree.
In fact, not to verge too far into conspiracy territory, but an OKC reporter named Jayna Davis makes a pretty persuasive case that Iraq was behind the OKC bombing and the Clinton Administation covered it up because, you know, they might have had to do something about it.
http://www.jaynadavis.com/
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:03 PM (5f5bM)
205
Prove it.
The part about people not voting for Romney because of his religion.
This blog has 50,000 readers or more a day, and when I demanded this last time, 2 people said they knew someone who did this...
but neither were conservatives of any sort.
The part about people not voting for Romney because of his religion.
This blog has 50,000 readers or more a day, and when I demanded this last time, 2 people said they knew someone who did this...
but neither were conservatives of any sort.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:03 PM (39g3+)
206
This is a lot like the Administration leaving Americans to die in Yeman except on a grand scale.
And the LIVs and the Media could care less, what's really important is to find out if republicans will attend a gay wedding.
If the Middle East blows up they'll just blame Bush and the GOP.
And the LIVs and the Media could care less, what's really important is to find out if republicans will attend a gay wedding.
If the Middle East blows up they'll just blame Bush and the GOP.
Posted by: Kreplach at April 20, 2015 01:04 PM (OmITN)
207
So, according to the left, we Evil Conservatives should be ecstatic about this development, because it enshrines a "Right-Wing" Theocracy that Murders Gheys and treats Wymyn like Chattel (that's "cattle", quips Woody Harrelson) into power with Nukes, and which will attempt to impose its evil theocracy upon other countries, weaponized evangelical-style.
Yet we Conservatives are the ones who don't like this one fucking bit. Such a disconnect in the minds of the left should cause their heads to explode, but of course only causes them to get back on their knees and gargle the preznit's balls again.
Sigh. We are doomed.
Yet we Conservatives are the ones who don't like this one fucking bit. Such a disconnect in the minds of the left should cause their heads to explode, but of course only causes them to get back on their knees and gargle the preznit's balls again.
Sigh. We are doomed.
Posted by: Sharkman at April 20, 2015 01:05 PM (72D6h)
208
We still invaded, though.
And I'm not blaming Bush--nor giving credit to assholes who turned out to be "right" that Saddam didn't have WMD's. Those jerkoffs were against the invasion for all the wrong reasons.
I hate them more than I hated Saddam for making us invade...
And I'm not blaming Bush--nor giving credit to assholes who turned out to be "right" that Saddam didn't have WMD's. Those jerkoffs were against the invasion for all the wrong reasons.
I hate them more than I hated Saddam for making us invade...
Posted by: JoeF. at April 20, 2015 01:05 PM (hG7m8)
209
Thanks to Obama and his precious PeaceAt Any Price legacy, thenext President, whether Hillary or one of our guys, is going to be a war president. No getting around it, not now.
Yeah, and how many Republican's in the running can you say would make a good war president?
Yeah, and how many Republican's in the running can you say would make a good war president?
Posted by: Socratease at April 20, 2015 01:06 PM (82qVG)
210
I bet Sadam cooperated with Scott Ritter IYKWIM.
Posted by: Buzzion at April 20, 2015 01:06 PM (zt+N6)
211
So, basically, if I didn't vote for Romney because I considered him a water-weak, colluding RINO who'd bend over backwards to espouse "compromise" with the asshole Dems, then I enthusiastically cast my vote for TFG?
Well unfortunately in our system it doesn't matter how enthusiastic you are, if you don't vote for one guy, you've effectively voted for the other. But at some point we reach the time when it doesn't really matter who wins.
Well unfortunately in our system it doesn't matter how enthusiastic you are, if you don't vote for one guy, you've effectively voted for the other. But at some point we reach the time when it doesn't really matter who wins.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:06 PM (39g3+)
212
My husband and I were discussing this very thing the other day. I asked him how he would set up the beginning of WW III any differently than what Obama is doing now. He just shook his head.
Posted by: no good deed at April 20, 2015 01:07 PM (GgxVX)
213
The part about people not voting for Romney because of his religion.
...
but neither were conservatives of any sort.
----
There would have been rich research opportunities on the non-conservative gheeey blogies though...
...
but neither were conservatives of any sort.
----
There would have been rich research opportunities on the non-conservative gheeey blogies though...
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 01:07 PM (NUqwG)
214
BTW, I see you're calling me a liar on my 3300 vs 3000 vote story in the McCain election. That's documentable if you want. Precinct 721, Harris County, Texas. Go look it up. You're calling me a liar, burden of proof is on you. Put up or shut up, blowhard.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:07 PM (5f5bM)
215
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:03 PM (5f5bM)
Yeah, the left co-opted my argument. Dicks. I find it a funny argument for the left to make, since essentially they're saying "yeah, we're lying. We dont really care about human rights. hehehe."
But yeah, my argument is better to let the jihadists die in gulags and have Saddam and his sons run virgin rape clinics all over Iraq then to shed american blood trying to civilize the savages.
And that's my argument pretty much throughout the middle east.
It's also why I think the Israelis should just attack, then deport all "Palestinians". Because, eh, fuck it. We live in a mean world where tough shit happens all the time.
Yeah, the left co-opted my argument. Dicks. I find it a funny argument for the left to make, since essentially they're saying "yeah, we're lying. We dont really care about human rights. hehehe."
But yeah, my argument is better to let the jihadists die in gulags and have Saddam and his sons run virgin rape clinics all over Iraq then to shed american blood trying to civilize the savages.
And that's my argument pretty much throughout the middle east.
It's also why I think the Israelis should just attack, then deport all "Palestinians". Because, eh, fuck it. We live in a mean world where tough shit happens all the time.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 01:07 PM (AkOaV)
216
newhandle, nope - wrong on all counts about Iraq(well, I'm wrong on the first one - Drew, not ace!), yet dead-on about Obama's worldview. Not the place to set it straight, but seeing Iraq as no threat after 9/11 is simply unserious and out of touch with history and facts.
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (afQnV)
217
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 20, 2015 12:56 PM (2cS/G)
plus, it's 4/20 man... national holiday
Posted by: stoners everywhere at April 20, 2015 12:59 PM (AkOaV)
May the Fourth be with you too man! Wait, what?
plus, it's 4/20 man... national holiday
Posted by: stoners everywhere at April 20, 2015 12:59 PM (AkOaV)
May the Fourth be with you too man! Wait, what?
Posted by: 20 something stoned out of his mind in a MJ field in a CA national park at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (yRwC8)
218
nor giving credit to assholes who turned out to be "right" that Saddam didn't have WMD's.
Good because he did have WMD which the military kept finding but was for some insane reason kept quiet.
Good because he did have WMD which the military kept finding but was for some insane reason kept quiet.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (39g3+)
219
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:07 PM (5f5bM)
Who is that aimed at, me?
I'm not doubting your numbers, I'm questioning your assertion that people didn't vote for Romney because of his religion.
That's a BIG accusation to make, I think it should be backed up with numbers.
Exit polling data, for example. Or even polling data. Or... something other than "300 missing votes". Maybe they didn't vote for Romney because he wasn't a conservative. Maybe they voted for Gary Johnson or some other 3rd party candidate.
Maybe they didn't like Mitt Romneys hair.
There could be a million reasons why 300 people voted R down ticket, but not for Romney.
Who is that aimed at, me?
I'm not doubting your numbers, I'm questioning your assertion that people didn't vote for Romney because of his religion.
That's a BIG accusation to make, I think it should be backed up with numbers.
Exit polling data, for example. Or even polling data. Or... something other than "300 missing votes". Maybe they didn't vote for Romney because he wasn't a conservative. Maybe they voted for Gary Johnson or some other 3rd party candidate.
Maybe they didn't like Mitt Romneys hair.
There could be a million reasons why 300 people voted R down ticket, but not for Romney.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 01:09 PM (AkOaV)
220
205
Prove it.
The part about people not voting for Romney because of his religion.
This blog has 50,000 readers or more a day, and when I demanded this last time, 2 people said they knew someone who did this...
but neither were conservatives of any sort.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:03 PM (39g3+)
******************
I'm guessing very few people who frequent a blog run by a professed and militant atheist would be the same ones who would never vote for a Mormon qua Mormon under any circumstances. I'm guessing most of those people don't deal much with the Internet at all, and if they do, it sure ain't here.
Prove it.
The part about people not voting for Romney because of his religion.
This blog has 50,000 readers or more a day, and when I demanded this last time, 2 people said they knew someone who did this...
but neither were conservatives of any sort.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:03 PM (39g3+)
******************
I'm guessing very few people who frequent a blog run by a professed and militant atheist would be the same ones who would never vote for a Mormon qua Mormon under any circumstances. I'm guessing most of those people don't deal much with the Internet at all, and if they do, it sure ain't here.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:10 PM (5f5bM)
221
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (afQnV)
Yeah, none of us want to re-fuck that chicken.
Either way, we invaded, we occupied, we left. Then we re invaded I guess.
No use arguing over it all again. It happened.
Yeah, none of us want to re-fuck that chicken.
Either way, we invaded, we occupied, we left. Then we re invaded I guess.
No use arguing over it all again. It happened.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 01:11 PM (AkOaV)
222
But yeah, my argument is better to let the jihadists die in gulags and have Saddam and his sons run virgin rape clinics all over Iraq then to shed american blood trying to civilize the savages.
If that's as far as it went, I'd agree. But there was more at stake, much more.
If that's as far as it went, I'd agree. But there was more at stake, much more.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:12 PM (39g3+)
223
Good because he did have WMD which the military kept finding but was for some insane reason kept quiet.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (39g3+)
--------
Any evidence at all that any of these 'found' munitions were other than remnants of pre-Gulf War weapons production? Those would be technical violations of Saddam's agreements (assuming his government actually knew about or had kept track of them) and perhaps cause for war but not evidence of an ongoing WMD program.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (39g3+)
--------
Any evidence at all that any of these 'found' munitions were other than remnants of pre-Gulf War weapons production? Those would be technical violations of Saddam's agreements (assuming his government actually knew about or had kept track of them) and perhaps cause for war but not evidence of an ongoing WMD program.
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 01:12 PM (NUqwG)
224
I'm guessing very few people who frequent a blog run by a professed and militant atheist would be the same ones who would never vote for a Mormon qua Mormon under any circumstances.
I expect even people who come here know folks who aren't like them. Don't you? Each of us know hundreds of people who in turn know hundreds of others. And we got 2 examples.
Not an issue.
I expect even people who come here know folks who aren't like them. Don't you? Each of us know hundreds of people who in turn know hundreds of others. And we got 2 examples.
Not an issue.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:13 PM (39g3+)
225
seeing Iraq as no threat after 9/11 is simply unserious and out of touch with history and facts.
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (afQnV)
^^this
Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (afQnV)
^^this
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:13 PM (5f5bM)
226
Ace is a militant atheist? Oh fuck off you pathetic irrational screw head.
Posted by: Buzzion at April 20, 2015 01:13 PM (zt+N6)
227
Any evidence at all that any of these 'found' munitions were other than remnants of pre-Gulf War weapons production?
Doesn't matter. Zero means zero, not "no new ones." He had them. He used them against his own people, for crying out loud.
Doesn't matter. Zero means zero, not "no new ones." He had them. He used them against his own people, for crying out loud.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:14 PM (39g3+)
228
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 12:58 PM (AkOaV)
Agreed. In fact, what I saw was attempts by Romney's supporters to play the "religion card" as a way to deflect from criticism of R's policies and past actions.
Agreed. In fact, what I saw was attempts by Romney's supporters to play the "religion card" as a way to deflect from criticism of R's policies and past actions.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at April 20, 2015 01:14 PM (GDulk)
229
Yeah Ace is the best kind of atheist (although I think agnostic is a better description). He doesn't personally believe, but understands and has some sympathy toward the benefits of religion.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:16 PM (39g3+)
230
Not an issue.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:13 PM (39g3+)
*****************
I'll grant that it isn't the only issue. I think of Christie posing with Obama the weekend before the election (and his non-endorsement convention keynote), the MSM complicity in covering up Benghazi, and lots of other little things that also added up to suppress Republican votes, including this here blog. Well, guess what. In sum, they worked and we got four more years of Choom Boy. I look forward to the same sh*t in 2016 which will have the effect of electing Hillary even though they profess to be against her. But, you know, no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:13 PM (39g3+)
*****************
I'll grant that it isn't the only issue. I think of Christie posing with Obama the weekend before the election (and his non-endorsement convention keynote), the MSM complicity in covering up Benghazi, and lots of other little things that also added up to suppress Republican votes, including this here blog. Well, guess what. In sum, they worked and we got four more years of Choom Boy. I look forward to the same sh*t in 2016 which will have the effect of electing Hillary even though they profess to be against her. But, you know, no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:18 PM (5f5bM)
231
229
Yeah Ace is the best kind of atheist (although I think agnostic is a
better description). He doesn't personally believe, but understands and
has some sympathy toward the benefits of religion.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:16 PM (39g3+)
*****************
So he says occasionally, but I submit that the tirade a few weeks ago against Phil Robertson over something no one else even knew about was a lot closer to what he actually thinks.
Yeah Ace is the best kind of atheist (although I think agnostic is a
better description). He doesn't personally believe, but understands and
has some sympathy toward the benefits of religion.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:16 PM (39g3+)
*****************
So he says occasionally, but I submit that the tirade a few weeks ago against Phil Robertson over something no one else even knew about was a lot closer to what he actually thinks.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:20 PM (5f5bM)
232
http://bit.ly/1OybRM7
Time for the DA, some judges and even cops to face civil penalties as well as lengthy jail time. Act like fascist thugs, get treated like fascist thugs (at least until the US is completely a fascist thug state anyway.)
But of course they won't because that isn't how the system treats its own. We live in a version of hell of our own making.
Time for the DA, some judges and even cops to face civil penalties as well as lengthy jail time. Act like fascist thugs, get treated like fascist thugs (at least until the US is completely a fascist thug state anyway.)
But of course they won't because that isn't how the system treats its own. We live in a version of hell of our own making.
Posted by: Bete resigned to just watching the world burn at April 20, 2015 01:23 PM (Lqb+9)
233
Doesn't matter. Zero means zero, not "no new ones." He had them. He used them against his own people, for crying out loud.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:14 PM (39g3+)
------
He used chemical weapons against his own people before the Gulf War not after (assuming that Iraq did gas Kurds at Halabja). Was finding a few hundred or thousand old warheads with deteriorated chemicals worth the expense and lives of the extended occupation required to find them?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:14 PM (39g3+)
------
He used chemical weapons against his own people before the Gulf War not after (assuming that Iraq did gas Kurds at Halabja). Was finding a few hundred or thousand old warheads with deteriorated chemicals worth the expense and lives of the extended occupation required to find them?
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 01:23 PM (NUqwG)
234
What if the whole issue's as simple as identifying Obama as the Jew-hating leftist that he really is, and he's enabling Iran to destroy Israel - the fantasy of all Jew-hating leftists?
Posted by: apb at April 20, 2015 01:28 PM (v1fgg)
235
What if the whole issue's as simple as identifying Obama as the Jew-hating leftist that he really is, and he's enabling Iran to destroy Israel - the fantasy of all Jew-hating leftists?
Posted by: apb at April 20, 2015 01:28 PM (v1fgg)
236
Was finding a few hundred or thousand old warheads
with deteriorated chemicals worth the expense and lives of the extended
occupation required to find them?
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 01:23 PM (NUqwG)
********************
No one is going to argue that the WH/DOD/CENTCOM leadership in Iraq was 100% competent. Things got better when Rumsfeld was fired and Petraeus took over. That is the pattern of many American wars. Lincoln barely won reelection in 1864, and things really did not turn around until after Gettysburg and Vicksburg in 1863, two years into the war. WWII was not terribly popular in the US in 1943, either, although you would never know it from the way it's whitewashed today.
I fault a number of things. First, there was a doctrine, especially popular in the Air Force, of a Revolution in Military Affairs -- that we needed fewer boots on the ground, because with our technological superiority no other country could match us. Afghanistan, at least at first, proved it. So the focus in the CENTCOM plan was to have as few forces committed as possible. They did not wait for the 4th ID to get there when their entry through Turkey was blocked at the last minute. That was great for taking down the Iraqi army and government, but insufficient for occupying the country. Second, the country was far more broken than anyone ever expected. Normally, in these postwar cases, the fire department still shows up to put out fires and the power ministry employees still show up after a few days to go to their jobs and keep the electricity on. Not in Iraq. The place was a giant basket case, which I don't think anyone expected. Third, the UN pulled out, and many NGOs cut back on their commitments. People were literally starving and without water or medical assistance, and there was no one else to do it. Again, we could have anticipated that and prepared for it, but the Revolution in Military Affairs didn't cover that possibility. Finally, de-Baathification was a big screwup. After WWII, we were somewhat judicious in understanding that there were real, hard-core Nazis and Nazis who carried cards but did so because they felt they had to. Firing anyone who was a Baath Party member was just a dumb move. But those are all failures of execution that do not go to the reasons why invading Iraq was necessary -- indeed, given what we knew and the history, it was the only responsible thing to do at the time.
Those who say it was a mistake need to demonstrate how the world would be better if Saddam Hussein were still running Iraq. Would the French have kept up with sanctions? Right.
with deteriorated chemicals worth the expense and lives of the extended
occupation required to find them?
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 01:23 PM (NUqwG)
********************
No one is going to argue that the WH/DOD/CENTCOM leadership in Iraq was 100% competent. Things got better when Rumsfeld was fired and Petraeus took over. That is the pattern of many American wars. Lincoln barely won reelection in 1864, and things really did not turn around until after Gettysburg and Vicksburg in 1863, two years into the war. WWII was not terribly popular in the US in 1943, either, although you would never know it from the way it's whitewashed today.
I fault a number of things. First, there was a doctrine, especially popular in the Air Force, of a Revolution in Military Affairs -- that we needed fewer boots on the ground, because with our technological superiority no other country could match us. Afghanistan, at least at first, proved it. So the focus in the CENTCOM plan was to have as few forces committed as possible. They did not wait for the 4th ID to get there when their entry through Turkey was blocked at the last minute. That was great for taking down the Iraqi army and government, but insufficient for occupying the country. Second, the country was far more broken than anyone ever expected. Normally, in these postwar cases, the fire department still shows up to put out fires and the power ministry employees still show up after a few days to go to their jobs and keep the electricity on. Not in Iraq. The place was a giant basket case, which I don't think anyone expected. Third, the UN pulled out, and many NGOs cut back on their commitments. People were literally starving and without water or medical assistance, and there was no one else to do it. Again, we could have anticipated that and prepared for it, but the Revolution in Military Affairs didn't cover that possibility. Finally, de-Baathification was a big screwup. After WWII, we were somewhat judicious in understanding that there were real, hard-core Nazis and Nazis who carried cards but did so because they felt they had to. Firing anyone who was a Baath Party member was just a dumb move. But those are all failures of execution that do not go to the reasons why invading Iraq was necessary -- indeed, given what we knew and the history, it was the only responsible thing to do at the time.
Those who say it was a mistake need to demonstrate how the world would be better if Saddam Hussein were still running Iraq. Would the French have kept up with sanctions? Right.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:38 PM (5f5bM)
237
Was finding a few hundred or thousand old warheads with deteriorated chemicals worth the expense and lives of the extended occupation required to find them?
Dude. You're arguing that we shouldn't take military action because in the future we'll find out that the best intelligence on earth wasn't 100% as accurate as we hoped? That the most powerful army in the world after US and Russia, armed with NBC weapons under an expansionistic lunatic who has violated a cease fire dozens of times while training, harboring, funding, and arming terrorists shouldn't be acted against because in the future we find out his NBC stockpiles aren't as extensive as we thought?
Are you serious??
Dude. You're arguing that we shouldn't take military action because in the future we'll find out that the best intelligence on earth wasn't 100% as accurate as we hoped? That the most powerful army in the world after US and Russia, armed with NBC weapons under an expansionistic lunatic who has violated a cease fire dozens of times while training, harboring, funding, and arming terrorists shouldn't be acted against because in the future we find out his NBC stockpiles aren't as extensive as we thought?
Are you serious??
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:41 PM (39g3+)
238
IIRC Part of the reason that the Bush administration didn't do anything militarily about the Iranian nuke situation is that when the Pentagon simulated action in Iran the outcome kept coming back: "Global Thermonuclear War".
Of course that was when there were rational military minds in the Pentagon and not political Obama promoted hacks. I'm sure that today they would tell President Ten Putt "it's all good" if he were to ask - which he won't.
Much like Chamberlain's Munich capitulation guaranteed WW2 would occur - Obama's Iran policy makes WW3 inevitable. The only question is which burning fuse will set off the powder keg?
Of course that was when there were rational military minds in the Pentagon and not political Obama promoted hacks. I'm sure that today they would tell President Ten Putt "it's all good" if he were to ask - which he won't.
Much like Chamberlain's Munich capitulation guaranteed WW2 would occur - Obama's Iran policy makes WW3 inevitable. The only question is which burning fuse will set off the powder keg?
Posted by: An Observation at April 20, 2015 01:57 PM (nm9kI)
239
>>>But Obama is the smartest man in the world or something so I'm sure it'll be fine.
I'm not even sure liberals believe that anymore. They're just bein chivalrous. Barry's the only one who believes it.
I'm not even sure liberals believe that anymore. They're just bein chivalrous. Barry's the only one who believes it.
Posted by: Sunni LeBeouf at April 20, 2015 01:58 PM (XrHO0)
240
Are you serious??
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:41 PM (39g3+)
--------
I never said what you implied that I did.
I supported an invasion of Iraq (and did so prior to 9/11) due to the fact that Iraq was not living up to their agreement on inspections even then and were constantly interfering with overflights of the no fly zones. I supported Bush's ultimatum just prior to the invasion (resume cooperation and Saddam and sons leave Iraq within 72 hours).
My policy preference and our intelligence at the time in no way argued for an prolonged occupation of Iraq. Nothing justiified a prolonged 'nation' building exercise.
A few old chemical munitions does not imply the existence of a recent WMD program. The military didn't make much of the finds because they were not very important.
Some learn from mistakes. Others double down and commit to make the same mistakes in the future.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 01:41 PM (39g3+)
--------
I never said what you implied that I did.
I supported an invasion of Iraq (and did so prior to 9/11) due to the fact that Iraq was not living up to their agreement on inspections even then and were constantly interfering with overflights of the no fly zones. I supported Bush's ultimatum just prior to the invasion (resume cooperation and Saddam and sons leave Iraq within 72 hours).
My policy preference and our intelligence at the time in no way argued for an prolonged occupation of Iraq. Nothing justiified a prolonged 'nation' building exercise.
A few old chemical munitions does not imply the existence of a recent WMD program. The military didn't make much of the finds because they were not very important.
Some learn from mistakes. Others double down and commit to make the same mistakes in the future.
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 02:53 PM (NUqwG)
241
Those who say it was a mistake need to demonstrate how the world would be better if Saddam Hussein were still running Iraq. Would the French have kept up with sanctions? Right.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:38 PM (5f5bM)
-----
The removal of Saddam Hussein did not require a 10 intervention. It required a 1 year intervention.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 01:38 PM (5f5bM)
-----
The removal of Saddam Hussein did not require a 10 intervention. It required a 1 year intervention.
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 02:55 PM (NUqwG)
242
It actually required about 5 years to win the war. It should have been quicker, but see my post above about being insufficiently resourced and having the wrong people in charge of execution. Then after 6 years, and after the war was actually won, the new Administration turned tail and left. The result we have now is what would also have been obtained with a 1-year war, even competently executed, followed by a Bush Administration withdrawal leaving a power vacuum. It just would have occurred sooner under your scenario.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 20, 2015 05:24 PM (t2m1Y)
243
Ordinarily, I'd want to survive Teh Won's foolishness. But in this case, I fear for those who do survive.
Two scenarios:
The Sunni states + Pakistan wage pre-emptive war against Iran, with assistance of Israel. Enemy of my enemy and all that.
The House of Saud embarks on a nuclear weapons program courtesy of the reactors the South Koreans are in the process of selling to them. Interim: they purchase one or more nukes from Pakistan.
Not sure how ore where India might fit in all of this, but I'd wager they're not thrilled at the prospect of a nuclear armed Iran.
Ordinarily, I'd want to survive Teh Won's foolishness. But in this case, I fear for those who do survive.
Two scenarios:
The Sunni states + Pakistan wage pre-emptive war against Iran, with assistance of Israel. Enemy of my enemy and all that.
The House of Saud embarks on a nuclear weapons program courtesy of the reactors the South Koreans are in the process of selling to them. Interim: they purchase one or more nukes from Pakistan.
Not sure how ore where India might fit in all of this, but I'd wager they're not thrilled at the prospect of a nuclear armed Iran.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at April 20, 2015 05:30 PM (VvOZ5)
244
Then after 6 years, and after the war was actually won, the new Administration turned tail and left.
-------
If the war was won by 2009 then why was withdrawal in 2011 a problem? When would it not have been a problem? 34 for months is a long time to take to 'turn tail and leave'.
-------
If the war was won by 2009 then why was withdrawal in 2011 a problem? When would it not have been a problem? 34 for months is a long time to take to 'turn tail and leave'.
Posted by: RioBravo at April 20, 2015 07:17 PM (NUqwG)
Processing 0.05, elapsed 0.0437 seconds.
14 queries taking 0.0112 seconds, 252 records returned.
Page size 156 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.
MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Real Clear Politics
Gallup
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Primary Document: The Audio
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Top Top Tens
Democratic Forays into Erotica
New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network
Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes
Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse
Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party"
Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad
Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up
Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry
NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom
Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?"
Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind
All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd
Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran
Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore
Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery
Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile
Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance
Collective Names for Groups of People
John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets
Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle
Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy
Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive"
Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments
John Edwards Campaign Excuses
John Kerry Pick-Up Lines
Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney
Torments in Dog-Hell
Greatest Hitjobs
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat