John Boehner, The Dishonorable Gentleman From Ohio

If you’ve ever watched a House debate or committee meeting you’ll notice that when members of Congress take a rare break from congratulating each other on their leadership and thanking one another for their service, they love to call each other “honorable.” “The Honorable member from East Nowhere” or “The Honorable Gentleman/Gentlelady From West Wherever.” Etiquette requires that when sending a letter to an elected official it be addressed to “The Honorable…..”

Yet unlike say the military where honor is a virtue that is actually something people strive to live by, politicians simply cloak themselves in the trappings of “honor.” Actually living by an honor code isn’t something they are really interested in.

Take for example, Speaker of the House John Boehner. He spent much of last year traveling the country on behalf of Republican candidates. His pitch was invariably something along the lines of, we need more Republicans to change the direction of the country has been going under Obama. He promised that if more Republicans were elected things would be very different in Washington.

Well, they certainly are but not in the way he promised they would be.

Boehner said Obama’s executive amnesty was unconstitutional and that the GOP would fight it. He promptly caved and allowed the Democrats to partner with a handful of Republicans to pass the DHS funding bill.

But now we learn his dishonesty is taking on entirely new path. Instead of his normal path of failure, propose something, complain that there aren’t enough votes, rely on Democrats to pass it he is not proactively negotiating with Democrats and cutting large swaths (the conservative part) of the House GOP out of the process.

Boehner and his top chairmen will pitch a permanent "doc-fix" deal to Republicans Tuesday morning that would have been unheard of in the GOP-led House of the last few years: an entitlement change that adds tens of billions of dollars to the 10-year deficit and that they know fiscal hawks will vote against. What's more, Boehner and his team negotiated the deal with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and her Democrats first.
That is a noted strategy shift for Boehner, who on several recent occasions—including last month's Homeland Security Department funding standoff—has only gone to Pelosi as a last resort and, instead, relied on 218 Republicans to pass right-leaning bills. Now he is not bothering to try to appease the most vocal hard-liners in his party, members who—Boehner's allies have argued—were never going to come around to his side anyway.
...
Meanwhile, House Democrats have agreed to the policy without insisting on tax increases in return. What they get instead is a two-year reauthorization of the Children's Health Insurance Program at levels agreed to in the Affordable Care Act. And even that is a relief for GOP leaders; CHIP not only splits the Republican Party, but it expires in September, just as government spending is set to run out. Amid another potential shutdown jam, GOP leaders would also likely have to deal with Democrats to get it passed then or concoct their own policy and suffer attacks from Democrats accusing them of endangering or making draconian cuts to children's health care programs.

Hundreds of billions of dollars in deficit spending? I don’t recall that being part of Boehner’s pitch last fall.

Working with Nancy Pelosi to provide the votes for this spending? Again, I don’t remember that being a big GOP selling point prior to last November.

Reauthorizing SCHIP at inflated Obama levels as a “sweetener” to get Democrat votes? That’s the bold change in direction we heard so much about? Remember, George W. Bush vetoed those spending levels when Democrats took over the Congress in 2007. Twice. The largest House majority in history is now to the left of W. on discretionary spending. Again, I follow the news pretty closely. I’m almost positive that wasn’t the plan Republicans were selling four and a half months ago.

What is so honorable about bait and switch tactics like this?

Of course telling the truth is pretty low bar to measure honor. Honor usually involves something greater like selflessness, a willingness to put others ahead of your own self-interest, or admitting one has flaws that is holding the group back.

By and metric, other that electing Republicans and ensuring their own professional well being, Beohner’s leadership has been a disaster. Time and time again he has failed to accurately gauge the mood of his caucus and lead them accordingly. The Sandy relief bill, the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling, ObamaCare repeal efforts, passage of the CrOmnibus, the 20 week abortion ban, DHS funding fight and now the “doc-fix”, are just a few of his failures.

I know Republican and Boehner fans will blame idiot conservatives who won’t give in. Well, at some point the list of failures becomes so long you have to think maybe it’s not the followers who are wrong here.

How can anyone have such a record of failure and still think they should hold a position of leadership and public trust?

I’m not letting conservatives off the hook either. They should have been organized to challenge him but they never put anyone up. Boehner knows it’s almost impossible to topple a Speaker but if the position were vacant there would be several candidates vying for the position.

Maybe no one can do better than Boehner but a man of honor would realize that his leadership isn’t working. An honorable man would understand if he can’t manage to run the House with the largest GOP majority in history without cutting deals with the Democrats he isn’t the right man at this time and let someone else at least try.

Boehner surely thinks he’s an honorable man and that the GOP is better off giving in to the Democrats than giving conservatives a chance to do what they were elected to do. Villains never see themselves as the bad guy. That doesn’t mean the rest of us have to sit quietly and pretend his desperate need to cling to power via lies and sellouts is anything other than dishonorable.

Posted by: DrewM. at 10:58 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Sweet

Posted by: Yip at March 17, 2015 11:00 AM (84SRe)

2 First?

Posted by: Grim at March 17, 2015 11:00 AM (tO352)

3 Bleh.

Posted by: Grim at March 17, 2015 11:01 AM (tO352)

4 Diamonds are forever...

Posted by: HH at March 17, 2015 11:02 AM (Ce4DF)

5 FUCK THE GOP

Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (A8mmh)

6 Something other than first. Hah, nailed it!

Posted by: Insomniac at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (2Ojst)

7 Orange and Turtle: new villians in the next Batman movie.

Posted by: eman at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (MQEz6)

8 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (kff5f)

9 OK, I know that the Republicans in congress are generally incredibly awful and frequently worse than useless, but Drew's constant eeyorism is a bit much for me. Perhaps a little more variety in topics?

Anyway, not my blog, so I have at it.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (shFKH)

10 PS Oh and FUCK YOU ETERNALLY DONKS

Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (A8mmh)

11 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (kff5f)

12 "Shut up!" They explained

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (JOG+K)

13 I hear the Speaker's office is the nicest one in the Capitol.

And that nice office tends to trump honor in the GOPe.

Posted by: @JohnTant at March 17, 2015 11:04 AM (eytER)

14 Wherefore Art Thread......?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 17, 2015 11:04 AM (LA7Cm)

15 Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:03 AM (A8mmh)

What he said.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 17, 2015 11:04 AM (kff5f)

16 Alright, time to break out my Irish Beer.

Posted by: HH at March 17, 2015 11:04 AM (Ce4DF)

17 Well ... I'm decided.

I'm voting against Todd Young (R - IN 9) in the primary and general. I'll vote Dem if necessary.

The worse the better.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 17, 2015 11:05 AM (Lk/fE)

18 I get that sometimes its appropriate to say "this isn't the hill to die on". Really, I understand. But there must be some hill Boehner thinks he's ready to fight for, and I'd just like to understand from him which hill that might be.

Because it looks as if his hill is conservative solutions. Those are the policy ideas he will fight to kill at any cost. Smaller government? He hates it. Less intrusive regulation? Nope. Border security? Forget it.

Posted by: MTF, Denier at March 17, 2015 11:05 AM (LISuA)

19
In my estimation, the only thing of which Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have been guilty in the past few years is to have worked tirelessly within political reality and to have reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt.

- Charles C. W. Cooke

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 17, 2015 11:06 AM (kdS6q)

20 I really think every single able-bodied true conservative currently in Washington (if they exist), needs to come together and IMMEDIATELY resign from the Republican party and form a new CONSERVATIVE party. They may have been elected as Republicans, but they sure as hell don't have to stay that way...

Posted by: Josh at March 17, 2015 11:07 AM (AUZJW)

21 Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS 12m12 minutes ago
Displaced US worker Jay Palmer addresses one key myth: "they're not skilled workers" - H1Bs are mostly ordinary workers who cost less

Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 14m14 minutes ago
BigTech companies prevent U.S. workers from talking about Dig Your Own Grave policies. Infosys whistleblower Jay Palmer speaks for them.

Immigration Subcmte @ImmigrationGOP 18m18 minutes ago
Laid-off worker who trained his H1B replacement: "They call it knowledge transfer but we all know thats an illusion. It's about cheap labor"

Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 54m54 minutes ago
. @chuckgrassley shows H-1B ad seeking "any tech skills." in India. So much for "best and brightest" B.S.
http://t.co/4IaavZEc0z

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:07 AM (ZPrif)

22 Coke takes 47%, Pepsi takes 47%. The rest they leave to 7-Up and the little guys, and pretend they're competing for dominance when in truth they're sharing almost total power.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:07 AM (MMC8r)

23 So the democrat caucus is still running the house.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 17, 2015 11:07 AM (S+el1)

24 Step 1: Examine philosophy of government, decide on overarching principles.
Step 2: Articulate principles.
Step 3: Go to DC and govern.

Stop skipping steps buttholes!!!

Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:08 AM (A8mmh)

25 Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS 2m2 minutes ago
Salzman: If there's so much demand for STEM workers, why haven't wages gone up? Hira: IT wages have been flat for 15 years

Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS
Hira: says idea that companies use guest workers as last resort b/c they can't find US workers is nonsense. HP and IBM laid off 100K ppl

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:08 AM (ZPrif)

26 Kind of reminds me of those "Iraqi Policemen" that manage to bring a vest made of RDX into the cafeteria.

Posted by: Jacob's Step Stool at March 17, 2015 11:08 AM (VNgld)

27 chique d'afrique, with no real voice for conservatism in DC and with our ostensible leadership proving that their treachery knows no bounds, I think Drew's pessimism is entirely justified: no sense in blaming the meteorologist for the 40th straight day of rain.

Posted by: Bubba at March 17, 2015 11:08 AM (bpn7O)

28 Sarah Hoyt floated a theory that somebody has something on Boehner.

Posted by: Lea at March 17, 2015 11:08 AM (lIU4e)

29 Its insanity like this that make otherwise sane people feel they have to resort to violence to accomplish anything.

Posted by: Iblis at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (9221z)

30 Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:08 AM (A8mmh)

Step 1: Graft, corruption, and cronyism.
Step 2: "Vote for me! I'm not him!"
Step 3: Profit.

Posted by: John Boehner at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (kff5f)

31 The Republicans are just the Democrat JV Squad at this point.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (ztY2p)

32 If Republicans want to prove that they can govern, they cant go with proposals the hard right wing comes up with every 5 minutes. Obama will simply veto them. You may like it or not but as long as Obama occupies the Oval Office and we dont have veto proof majorities, the Democrats sit in the boat with us.

Btw: Going on voting strike in 2016 wont improve this situation, but likely worsen it, Drew!

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

33 Iave written many letters to my representatives in Congress. I have never addressed any of them as "honorable". I would be more inclined to say "dishonorable".

As for Boner selling us out, that has been his norm for a long time. But in the past he tried to hide it under a jack and the Beanstalk" deal. Now he doesn't even bother with that. The RNCe does not want conservatives in their Party or to vote for them.

I am now happy to grant them that. Piss on them they have got my last vote.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (wlDny)

34 Not all H1-B's are created equal. I was one, and that's the route through which I eventually got my permanent residence.

I (like my siblings who also were/will be on H1-B) was college/grad school educated in the US, and I assure you I certainly was not cheaper to hire.

There are certain fields that native Americans just don't go into in large numbers. For example, without the ability to hire people on H1-B, most pharma companies would be seriously screwed.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:10 AM (shFKH)

35 Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

For the class: what *would* improve it?

Please show your work.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 17, 2015 11:10 AM (kff5f)

36 He is some type of weasel.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 17, 2015 11:11 AM (j6e8f)

37 Miss me yet?

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at March 17, 2015 11:11 AM (0Ew3K)

38 Obama will simply veto them.

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

Make him own it and explain why the bill is a bad idea. If you don't stand for something you stand for nothing at all.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 17, 2015 11:11 AM (S+el1)

39 Seriously considering voting straight ticket Dem. GOP is useless.

Posted by: epv at March 17, 2015 11:11 AM (7n5AK)

40 Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

If GOP "governing" means "pass what would go through if the Democrats were in charge", what precisely is the point of voting for a Republican?

Posted by: DrewM. at March 17, 2015 11:12 AM (ldFt4)

41 Many years ago, while watching Sunday TV Political theater, one congressman said about another congressman sitting next to him, "My dear friend,"

and the other guy acted like he had been insulted.

So I concluded they each hated the other and the first guy got his dig in, and the other guy had no way to reply. That is the only part of Sunday TV Political Theater that I have ever remembered.

Posted by: Lessly H. at March 17, 2015 11:12 AM (Cbj2r)

42 Boehner's idea of the hill to die on is the white stuff piled up on his desk next to a bottle of scotch.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 17, 2015 11:12 AM (Y92Nd)

43 For the class: what *would* improve it?

Please show your work.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 17, 2015 11:10
---
Republican majorities in Congress and a competent, realistic Republican in the Oval Office. And you dont get that if you dont vote for Republicans.

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:12 AM (efWIZ)

44 They were SUPPOSED to make Obama veto the DHS bill.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:13 AM (MMC8r)

45 Boehner lies? Here is my shocked face

Posted by: An Observation - I use Silver Bullet gun oil at March 17, 2015 11:13 AM (hppwY)

46 My hope and prayer is that if Walker is elected next year, one of his first orders of business after his inauguration is to tell Boehner and McConnell to GTFO of their offices. Oh, and be shirtless when he does it!

*Walker is a hottie!*

Posted by: jmel at March 17, 2015 11:13 AM (ILWuo)

47 Ah, protecting the American Worker, I see.

Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS 2m2 minutes ago
AFL-CIO witness says only way to help US worker is to pass mass amnesty & guest worker programs.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:14 AM (ZPrif)

48 See that view out there from my window? Yeah, you don't get to see it. I do. Every day. Sweet.

Now back out of here while bowing, peon.

Sincerely,
The Honorable Orange Boner

Posted by: anon a mouse at March 17, 2015 11:14 AM (KnbYp)

49 So, his tears upon demand don't do anything for you?

Posted by: Penfold at March 17, 2015 11:14 AM (Fbt5B)

50 Two choices: 1) Shell game or 2) Kick can down the Road

Posted by: Colonel Haiku at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (Y8JQ4)

51 34 There are certain fields that native Americans just
don't go into in large numbers. For example, without the ability to
hire people on H1-B, most pharma companies would be seriously screwed.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:10 AM (shFKH)

The problem isn't that there are no American to fill those high tech positions. The problem is that big companies want cheap labor for those positions.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (wlDny)

52 Is it too early to start hitting the Jameson?

Posted by: Country Singer at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (8hctH)

53 "And you dont get that if you dont vote for Republicans."

Haven't really gotten when we do vote Republican either.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (LA7Cm)

54 49 So, his tears upon demand don't do anything for you?

Posted by: Penfold at March 17, 2015 11:14 AM (Fbt5B)

I'd like to give him something to cry about.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (S+el1)

55 Bubba, Drew's pessimism is incredibly warranted. I, usually an optimist, am also pessimistic about this. I don't believe there is a political situation to our problems as so many of our politicians are incredibly deficient, even if the entire media and culture were not arrayed against us.

And I guess I skipped over the post since I felt like, here we go again, Drew's bashing Republicans again (not that they don't deserve it). Isn't there something else to write about.

But after perusing the post, I now see that it was warranted because Boehner has found yet another way to screw us over. Wonderful.

I am becoming less and less interested in politics because I feel it's quite hopeless.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (shFKH)

56 Obama has a terribly low number of vetos especially compared with other two-term presidents. This might make sense if the same party controlled Congress or even one party controlled one of the houses of Congress. Why is veto something to avoid or something that hurts the Republicans? It shows no sack.

Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:16 AM (A8mmh)

57 Oh, yes, if ONLY we had a Republican president with a Republican Congress like we did 2001-2006...

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 17, 2015 11:16 AM (Y92Nd)

58 This is what conservatives get for "holding their noses" and voting lock-step Republican.

Posted by: Banned by KBTX at March 17, 2015 11:16 AM (mM6iZ)

59
Republican majorities in Congress and a competent, realistic Republican in the Oval Office. And you dont get that if you dont vote for Republicans.

Jeb will save us.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:16 AM (MMC8r)

60 Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

Pardon me, but did someone just say "derp?"

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at March 17, 2015 11:17 AM (lG2E3)

61 There are certain fields that native Americans just
don't go into in large numbers. For example, without the ability to
hire people on H1-B, most pharma companies would be seriously screwed.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:10 AM (shFKH)

The problem isn't that there are no American to fill those high tech positions. The problem is that big companies want cheap labor for those positions.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (wlDny)

The problem is that we have too few plumbers or scientists... and too many people with a Masters in political puppetry.

Posted by: The Marionette Hat at March 17, 2015 11:17 AM (0Ew3K)

62 Huh. As it turns out, elections actually don't matter.

And therein lies the true danger.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at March 17, 2015 11:17 AM (DT3rQ)

63 Yes, Mooch, being First Lady is exactly like being in prison, you ungrateful witch.

"The one thing people don't realize is, we can't do little things like open windows... haven't been in a car with the window open for like seven years...there are prison-like elements, but it's a really nice prison."

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:17 AM (7ObY1)

64 "I am becoming less and less interested in politics because I feel it's quite hopeless. "

It really kinda has with this ball-less, gutless, worthless, feckless, useless GOP leadership. Beyond words. Some of the stupidest people ever to lead a major party.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 17, 2015 11:17 AM (LA7Cm)

65 no art? You really are a bunch of knuck-dragging cretins.

Posted by: Ghost O'Hallelujah at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (7RXcs)

66 Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

ooooh, new apologist name to protect the identity of the old apologist.

Honestly, can't you clowns come up with a new schtick?

"We can't do this because we don't have X."

Achieve X.

"We can't do X because we don't have Y."

Guess what happens next?

Nevermind the results that happened the last time we had XYZ.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (xSCb6)

67 Republican majorities in Congress and a competent, realistic Republican in the Oval Office. And you dont get that if you dont vote for Republicans.

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:12 AM (efWIZ

If I can make ALL the germs in my body the same, they will suddenly reverse course and make me healthy!

Great plan.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (SCcgT)

68 Maybe no one can do better than Boehner
***
When Pelosi and Reid controlled Congress and Bush was the President they completely set the domestic agenda.

We have the reverse scenario here and Obama is driving the agenda.

So it is clear that Boehner is not leading as well as Pelosi did...if you presume his agenda is at odds with Obama.

He is either incompetent or a leftist. If EITHER is true he should be removed from the leadership position he is in.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (78TbK)

69 Democratically Controlled House of Representatives.

Posted by: AoSHQ Stylebook at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (evdj2)

70 Followup for chique d'afrique

The pharma industry is probably different. The last I saw there was a real shortage of pharmacists and companies were offering huge bucks and bonuses for new hires.

The problem there is those are tough classes to take in college and many of our youth of today do not want to spend time and effort to take and pass them.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (wlDny)

71 Begonia,
Instantly reminding everyone why we need an ignore_user option at the voting box.

Posted by: DaveA at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (DL2i+)

72 The problem isn't that there are no American to fill those high tech positions. The problem is that big companies want cheap labor for those positions.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (wlDny)

Wrong. When I was in grad school in a highly technical field, there were a lot of foreigners in my department. About 4 years later, there was not a single white American that came in to the graduate program. My brother's department had mostly East Asian and Indian grad students. White students were a tiny minority. Same for other technical programs *in the USA*.

During graduation, almost all the graduates of the engineering and hard science graduate programs were non-white non-American. But the vast majority of liberal arts and sociology Masters and PhD grads were American (white and some black).

And trust me, I made a really good salary when I got out. I was not cheap.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:19 AM (shFKH)

73 Waiting for all the posts that are like "oh, it's Drew M complaining about the Republicans again."

Because, you know, we all voted massively for Republicans in 2010 and 2014 because we knew that it would take a Republican controlled Congress to get all of the Democrat priorities passed.

Sheesh.

Posted by: blaster at March 17, 2015 11:19 AM (amMYN)

74 ****Republican majorities in Congress and a competent, realistic Republican in the Oval Office. And you dont get that if you dont vote for Republicans.

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:12 AM (efWIZ)****

And tell us all about how the last time that happened we got less government and less spending.

You people are a joke.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 11:19 AM (xSCb6)

75 You may like it or not but as long as Obama occupies the Oval Office and we dont have veto proof majorities, the Democrats sit in the boat with us.

Ah yes, the classic excuse from the establishment pricks.

Listen, if we wanted democrats in charge, they would have been VOTED to be in charge, douchebag.

Posted by: GMan at March 17, 2015 11:19 AM (sxq57)

76 Obama has a terribly low number of vetos especially compared with other two-term presidents. This might make sense if the same party controlled Congress or even one party controlled one of the houses of Congress. Why is veto something to avoid or something that hurts the Republicans? It shows no sack.

Mitch McConnell used to talk all the time about "putting Democrats on record" of opposing this or that, or supporting this or that.

Now it appears he won't even do that little tiny bit.

Posted by: @JohnTant at March 17, 2015 11:19 AM (eytER)

77 If Republicans want to prove that they can govern, they cant go with proposals the hard right wing comes up with every 5 minutes. Obama will simply veto them. You may like it or not but as long as Obama occupies the Oval Office and we dont have veto proof majorities, the Democrats sit in the boat with us.
Btw: Going on voting strike in 2016 wont improve this situation, but likely worsen it, Drew!

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

You forgot the sarcasm tag, sugar tits.

Either that, or you forgot to append "concerned Christian conservative" to your nic.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 17, 2015 11:19 AM (zF6Iw)

78 Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 3m3 minutes ago
Amnesty/H-1B shill/I-Squared co-sponsor Jeff Flake tries to insinuate that Hal Salzman opposes all foreign workers. Fails.

Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 2m2 minutes ago
Jeff Flake cannot reconcile the brutal reality checks of H-1B critics with what all his deep-pocketed industry donors are telling him.

Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin
H-1B shill Jeff Flake, unable to cope with reality, turns to the H-1B industry shill on the panel to rescue him.
http://t.co/4IaavZEc0z

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:20 AM (ZPrif)

79 That last govt shutdown still gives him nightmares. What with having to make a staffer empty his trashcan. Oh the horror.

Posted by: ryukyu at March 17, 2015 11:20 AM (oVF7Q)

80 no art? You really are a bunch of knuck-dragging cretins.

Posted by: Ghost O'Hallelujah at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (7RXcs)

It was there for about 10 seconds. Then Drew posted.

Posted by: HH at March 17, 2015 11:20 AM (Ce4DF)

81 56
Obama has a terribly low number of vetos especially compared with other
two-term presidents. This might make sense if the same party controlled
Congress or even one party controlled one of the houses of Congress. Why
is veto something to avoid or something that hurts the Republicans? It
shows no sack.

Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:16 AM (A8mmh)

He has that low number because Dirty Hairy blocked everything from the House. He exercised the veto. Now IF we pass anything Obama will veto it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (wlDny)

82 "Honor"...they keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (h4vJk)

83 Oh, yes, if ONLY we had a Republican president with a Republican Congress like we did 2001-2006...

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 17, 2015 11:16 AM (Y92Nd)

There is only one logical conclusion on what to do about that...

http://tinyurl.com/lhl48xf

Posted by: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Hat R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (0Ew3K)

84 Y'all did see the dude his daughter married, right?

Yeah. Look, I know I shouldn't judge by such things, but...well, it kinda flagged some things for me.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (DT3rQ)

85 Republican majorities in Congress and a competent, realistic Republican in the Oval Office. And you dont get that if you dont vote for Republicans.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

We *have* Republican majorities, and we can't even stop the Democrat agenda, let alone begin pushing our own.

Even sending a large contingent of (at least in theory) Conservative Senators and Representatives hasn't moved anything back to the Right. The Conservatives are made out to be monsters and idiots.

Our last Republican President presided over the largest expansion of Medicare in US History, and a pretty big expansion of Medicaid. He "destroyed capitalism to save it."

Our last two Republican presidential nominees were moderate squishes.

So, no. The Republicans have not earned my vote. They have had 6 years to show that they had seen the error of their ways; they resolutely refuse to do so.

F*ck them with a rusty chainsaw.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (kff5f)

86 The pharma industry is probably different. The last I saw there was a real shortage of pharmacists and companies were offering huge bucks and bonuses for new hires.

The problem there is those are tough classes to take in college and many of our youth of today do not want to spend time and effort to take and pass them.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:18 AM (wlDny)

Exactly, Vic. But a lot of us foreigners don't mind taking the tough courses. In fact, many people's parents won't allow them to take easier liberal arts/social science courses. It's a different culture.

In my church, for example, the American kids and kids of non-native American parents (e.g., Indian, African, East Asian) take very different paths post high school graduation. It's difficult to find a white American kid who does something technical in college.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (shFKH)

87 Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS 6m6 minutes ago
Ben Johnson of AIC says: "the problem with our immigration system is that we have limits"

Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 7m7 minutes ago
Klobuchar now shilling for massive Hatch/Flake/Rubio H-1B increase bill backed by Microsoft & its lobbyists.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (ZPrif)

88 Republican majorities in Congress and a competent, realistic Republican in the Oval Office. And you dont get that if you dont vote for Republicans.

I've been voting Repumpkin for years.

I've also been funemployed since '08.

Cause, meet effect.

There's not a fucking one of them who's worth pissing on. You'll notice how many of them are pushing for any type of reform or any sort of policies that improve the lives of Americans, such as throttling back on overregulation and simplifying the tax code or letting the free market work?

Yeah, me neither.

Posted by: Backwards O'Boy, Guinness in hand at March 17, 2015 11:22 AM (0HooB)

89 The Republicans haven't had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, much less a veto proof one, since there were 48 states.

Just sayin'

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 17, 2015 11:22 AM (evdj2)

90 Gotta replace that population.

Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 10m10 minutes ago
Idiot Klobuchar touts successful immigrant entrepreneurs as definitive proof that we should import massive #'s of cheap foreign H-1Bs.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:22 AM (ZPrif)

91 >>Y'all did see the dude his daughter married, right?

Boehner's daughter? What about the dude she married?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 17, 2015 11:22 AM (bdqzU)

92 I will acknowledge that I am of course biased about the H1-B issue, having been in that status myself, along with my siblings.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:23 AM (shFKH)

93
The problem isn't that there are no American to fill those high
tech positions. The problem is that big companies want cheap labor for
those positions.
***
You know a Republican candidate that actually opposed Obamanomics could run a pretty successful campaign by highlighting this point.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 17, 2015 11:23 AM (78TbK)

94 When Bush and the republicans owned the place the national debt roughly doubled. Guess what, find your hand basket and get on the train. Enjoy the ride.

The politicians know it is unsustainable but there is plenty to loot left and the train ride won't end soon.
Get yours while you can, even Argentina has wealth to loot.

Posted by: Bob from table9 at March 17, 2015 11:24 AM (WNERA)

95 Why even call this "leadership". Leadership involved something greater. It requires measured decision making and coalescing people around your point of view. It requires courage and a bold vision.

This is nothing of the sort. Charitably, we call this abandonment of principle. Uncharitably, we call it the deceptive actions of a miscreant.

When the so-called "leader" starts to mostly put forth the other parties agenda, he is no longer our leader but a turncoat. He's a quisling and conspirator who has misled the people and made them into useful idiots.

It's about time someone in Washington grew a pair and made a serious effort at Boehner's removal. Because people won't be fooled so easily the next time and this buffoon is one of the key people standing in the way of party unity.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 17, 2015 11:25 AM (GGCsk)

96 The answer is Ace's oppo plan before he turned Democrat. Support whoever runs against Boehner and unseat his ass. Pick 10 more Reps to knock off too.

Posted by: Yip at March 17, 2015 11:25 AM (84SRe)

97 Suck my honorable member.

Posted by: John's boner at March 17, 2015 11:25 AM (W5DcG)

98 Pick 10 more Reps to knock off too.
***
I nominate Renee Ellmers.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 17, 2015 11:25 AM (78TbK)

99 Hey, maybe the problem isn't them, maybe its us...

Posted by: Moody guy in bar on St. Paddys Day at March 17, 2015 11:25 AM (LISuA)

100 If Republicans want to prove that they can govern, they cant go with proposals the hard right wing comes up with every 5 minutes. Obama will simply veto them. You may like it or not but as long as Obama occupies the Oval Office and we dont have veto proof majorities, the Democrats sit in the boat with us.
Btw: Going on voting strike in 2016 wont improve this situation, but likely worsen it, Drew!

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

Please answer the following question as it is, in fact, a serious question.

When will Republicans have sufficient numbers to start advancing the agenda upon which Republicans run?

The conservatives were told Republicans can't do anything because there is no control of the House, Senate or White House.

Conservatives helped gain control of the Hosue.

Then it was well we can't do anything because Republicans control only 1/2 of 1/3 of the government.

So conservatives helped gain control of the Senate.

Now it's well there's no veto proof majority and no Presidency.

I repeat, what numbers will be sufficient? The House, the Senate and the Presidency? The House, the Senate and no Presidency but veto proof majorities? The House, the Senate, the Presidency and veto proof majorities?

Because, you see, I've heard all of this before. Having heard all of this before, I know full well that the response when Republicans control the House, the Senate and the Presidency is but but but but the courts! The agencies! Regulations can't just be rolled back! We can't close programs down!

So, I want to know. What, exactly and precisely, will be sufficient control by Republicans for the Republicans to move forward on the agenda on which they ran?

That is not rhetorical.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:26 AM (mf5HN)

101
Ben Johnson of AIC says: "the problem with our immigration system is that we have limits"

What they're really pissed about is that people with IT degrees don't come over the border in the back of chicken trucks and wait outside CompUSA looking for day labor at $2/hr.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:26 AM (MMC8r)

102 96 The answer is Ace's oppo plan before he turned Democrat. Support whoever runs against Boehner and unseat his ass. Pick 10 more Reps to knock off too.
Posted by: Yip at March 17, 2015 11:25 AM (84SRe)

Did he turn dem or just anti-republican?

Posted by: Bob from table9 at March 17, 2015 11:26 AM (WNERA)

103 89
The Republicans haven't had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, much less a veto proof one, since there were 48 states.

Just sayin'

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 17, 2015 11:22 AM (evdj2)

Dirty Hairy opened the nuclear option can, McConehead has closed it back. IOW he has surrendered w/o a fight.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:27 AM (wlDny)

104
It's shit like this that I just don't understand. I rack my brain trying to figure out why boner would pull this. But then I remember 1 word that all narcissistic douchbag politicians whisper to themselves.

Legacy

Conservatives don't write or edit our textbooks, libtards do.

Posted by: Jacob's Step Stool at March 17, 2015 11:27 AM (VNgld)

105 there is a special place in hell for him

Posted by: phoenixgirl GOP fuck you & your #'s at March 17, 2015 11:27 AM (u8GsB)

106 If Republicans want to prove that they can govern, they cant go with proposals the hard right wing comes up with every 5 minutes. Obama will simply veto them. You may like it or not but as long as Obama occupies the Oval Office and we dont have veto proof majorities, the Democrats sit in the boat with us. Btw: Going on voting strike in 2016 wont improve this situation, but likely worsen it, Drew!

Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

Because nothing proves the ability to "govern" more than rubber-stamping crappy Democrat ideas that have already been proven not to work.

Posted by: Banned by KBTX at March 17, 2015 11:27 AM (mM6iZ)

107 Yay! Here's the daily perfidy!*

Curse you Boehner! Curse you!

*A regular feature guaranteed to get your blood boiling.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Gov. Walker's Throne of Skulls! Replicas only at the Outrage Outlet! at March 17, 2015 11:27 AM (hLRSq)

108 H1-Bs are all about cheap labor. That's just a fact. BigTech wants to pay less than they'd have to pay America. The claim there is a supply shortage is a blatant lie.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:28 AM (ZPrif)

109 Posted by: MTF, Denier at March 17, 2015 11:05 AM (LISuA)

Boehners hill to die on was repealing part of dodd frank for the donor class, remember?

He almost tanked the CRomnibus (I think, one of the recent fiscal "showdowns") because the dems didnt want him messing with dodd frank and he said "nah guys, this is the hill I'll die on. If you give me this, I'll do whatever you want going forward"

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:28 AM (AkOaV)

110 When confronted with the reality of actual, tangible results...the GOP apologist clams up.

Works every time with every single one of them.

Unfortunately, they're like rats.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 11:28 AM (xSCb6)

111 @102 No, he turned Democrat. Someone said they heard that he had a Fathead Cherokee Senator Warren poster in his boudoir.. just sayin'

Posted by: Yip at March 17, 2015 11:29 AM (84SRe)

112 70 /snips

The
problem there is those are tough classes to take in college and many of
our youth of today do not want to spend time and effort to take and
pass them.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party

I have news for you.

One of my nieces got a full ride to Auburn University when she graduated from high school here in Huntsville. She is going to the Pharmacy School there and she excels in everything she does. She is on the Deans List now and I suspect she will graduate at the head of her class academically.

She may not be the norm but I can promise you she will be leading the way for her class at Auburn when she graduates.

Dindu Nuthin's and slackers where ever are just that. People that have no wish to excel because Fedco will give them everything they need to live a sedated placated life.

Risk vs reward

When the goverment started giving away 'free' stuff it enslaved millions, they just don't realize it.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at March 17, 2015 11:29 AM (74McK)

113 Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 50m50 minutes ago
The best summary of H-1B myth-debunking on the Internet: Prof. Norm Matloff's H-1B page==> http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:29 AM (ZPrif)

114 Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:28 AM (ZPrif)

There's got to be more to this, honestly. I still haven't figured it out though.

I work in the tech industry. There is no reason to import Indians or whoever to do those jobs, there are plenty of americans applying for them, and they are willing to work cheap since if anything we have an over supply of engineers / programmers / whatever who all jumped in to it when there was a lot more money on the table.

Also, it's much cheaper to hire indians in india to do the mind numbing back end programming then to bring them to the US to pay them to do it. So I don't know why they'd need to bring them here...

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:30 AM (AkOaV)

115 I have one of those landline phones that announces the caller's name phonetically.

I have the pleasure of receiving two or three calls a day from "John Boner".

Posted by: stace at March 17, 2015 11:30 AM (ImzkZ)

116 "28
Sarah Hoyt floated a theory that somebody has something on Boehner.

Posted by: Lea at March 17, 2015 11:08 AM (lIU4e)"

Remember when the Clintons brought over all the FBI files on Republicans? I assume that Boehner's file was transferred into the Democrat opposition research database.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at March 17, 2015 11:31 AM (KDbAT)

117 So, I want to know. What, exactly and precisely, will be sufficient control by Republicans for the Republicans to move forward on the agenda on which they ran?

That is not rhetorical.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:26 AM (mf5HN)

May I suggest some reading that you might find to be of interest: http://tinyurl.com/2ecgc24

Posted by: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Hat R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn at March 17, 2015 11:31 AM (0Ew3K)

118 112 Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at March 17, 2015 11:29 AM (74McK)

Congrats on your niece, but that has become the exception not the norm. This is why there is such a shortage.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:31 AM (wlDny)

119 So, I want to know. What, exactly and precisely, will be sufficient control by Republicans for the Republicans to move forward on the agenda on which they ran?

That is not rhetorical.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:26 AM (mf5HN)

The leadership in both parties have about 95% the same goals--ie bigger government.

You know this too, one of the reasons nothing changes by changing a few house members with conservatives. The leadership is drilled in really deep with safe states/districts. They live gifted lives with money and power who would change that willingly?
Perhaps changing seniority rules would help-- it would but what are the chances.

Posted by: Bob from table9 at March 17, 2015 11:32 AM (WNERA)

120 Oh question since Pixy ate this a few times.

Why the push for a permanent doc fix now? Why now?

That's what I don't comprehend. Why pick this point at this time?

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (mf5HN)

121 http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html

The H-1B work visa is fundamentally about cheap, de facto indentured labor.

The vast majority of H-1Bs, including those hired from U.S. universities, are ordinary people doing ordinary work, not the best and the brightest. On the contrary, the average quality of the H-1Bs is LOWER than that of the Americans.

Furthermore, vast majority of H-1Bs, again including those hired from U.S. universities, are not doing work for which qualifed Americans are unavailable.

Instead of being about talent, H-1B is about cheap, immobile labor:

Employers accrue Type I wage savings by paying H-1Bs less than comparable Americans (U.S. citizens and permanent residents).

Employers accrue Type II wage savings by hiring younger, thus cheaper, H-1Bs in lieu of older, thus more expensive (age 35+) Americans.

Both types of wage savings are fully LEGAL, due to loopholes in the law and regulations. The problem is NOT one of lack of enforcement.

For many tech employers, having immobile workers is even more important than having cheap labor. If an engineer leaves an employer in the midst of an urgent project, this can be a major problem for the employer. The H-1B and green card programs give the employer heavy leverage to force workers to stay.

Abuse of H-1B extends across the industry, including the large U.S. mainstream firms., facilitated by the nation's top immigration law firms. It does NOT occur primarily in the Indian "body shops," and it DOES occur in the hiring of international students from U.S. university campuses.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (ZPrif)

122 Shit, can't I just drink my bourbon?

Posted by: John Boner in Assless Chaps at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (lG2E3)

123 Hey, it's free money! That Chinese guy said so.

Posted by: Roy at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (VndSC)

124 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:31 AM (wlDny)

Vic, do you have any numbers on all of that? I know conventional wisdom says that there are thousands of open jobs in STEM that are unfilled because us idiot 'Muricans can't figure out math, but I don't think that's true.

Do we have any proof it is, or are we just accepting Silicon Valleys' word for it?

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (AkOaV)

125 Why the push for a permanent doc fix now? Why now?

That's what I don't comprehend. Why pick this point at this time?

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (mf5HN)

DERP!!1!

Posted by: Speaker Boehner *sobs* at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (0Ew3K)

126 Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at March 17, 2015 11:29 AM (74McK)

I suspect you see more of this in SEC and ACC schools than elsewhere in the country. I know from talking to the undergrad guys in my fraternity chapter at Mississippi State that several of them are either staying on for an engineering masters or are moving on to med or dentistry school.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 17, 2015 11:34 AM (8hctH)

127 Posted by: Begonia at March 17, 2015 11:09 AM (efWIZ)

Lots of bullshit there, frankly.

Here - I seem to recall a time, right around 2003, when the GOP *had* the House, Senate, and the presidency....and STILL the GOP wasn't exactly courting conservatives. Remember the GOP working with Ted Kennedy to expand Medicare to include prescription coverage to old people?

Hell, if you didn't know Bush had said this you'd swear it was the most partisan democrat:

"Our nation has made a promise, a solemn promise, to America's seniors. We have pledged to help our citizens find affordable medical care in the later years of life."

"These reforms are the act of a vibrant and compassionate government."

So spare me the lectures about how the GOP just *has* to work with the Left since they have a seat in the boat. Even when they DON'T have a seat in the boat, the GOP is pretty damned eager to work with them too.

Posted by: @JohnTant at March 17, 2015 11:34 AM (eytER)

128 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 17, 2015 11:06 AM (kdS6q)

This is why I'm not a big fan of all of the British voices in the US conservative movement. You can see what a mess England is. It's importing losers from across the Atlantic to show you how to lose over here.

Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 17, 2015 11:34 AM (IiKvQ)

129 Th "doc fix" is a stupid spending issue to get bent out of shape over. This was ALWAYS an artificial item of "savings" in the budget that has ALWAYS been removed in the end, usually much more dishonestly and secretly. It should have been permanently fixed in the ACA, but of course then the CBO score would not have worked for reconciliation. EVERYONE who voted for that bill as well as those who voted against it knew that the "doc fix" was going to happen eventually. So now we are going to trash John Boehner for doing what everyone knew was going to have to be done. OOOOkay.

If you honestly think this gross underpayment of doctors should stay in the budget, then you are supporting punishing doctors and hospitals for the excesses of Medicare and Medicaid. I don't think that is very conservative. Liberals love health care but hate doctors. They are always trying to throw more money in the system but don't want to pay the actual providers of the care. That's insane.

We have these giant government health care programs that aren't going anywhere after 50 years of existence. It's high time we start getting honest about how much it really costs a doctor to see a patient, and pay him or her what it actually costs, and be honest about it. Yeah, that's gonna cost some more billions of dollars. What's your alternative, RIGHT NOW? Let the cuts happen, and watch all the doctors quit taking care of your Mom and Dad.

Posted by: rockmom at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (Q4elb)

130 I've never abstained from voting in my adult life, on the theory that you can only improve things you don't like by taking a positive action. I give money and time to the GOP too.

But I'm done, unless I see some progress. No support for the ticket, and not voting, even for my local representatives.

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (LISuA)

131 I've never abstained from voting in my adult life, on the theory that you can only improve things you don't like by taking a positive action. I give money and time to the GOP too.

But I'm done, unless I see some progress. No support for the ticket, and not voting, even for my local representatives.

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (LISuA)

132 39 Seriously considering voting straight ticket Dem. GOP is useless.
Posted by: epv at March 17, 2015 11:11 AM (7n5AK)

So now it's: "Fuck it....set the controls for the heart of the sun, eh?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (4/b+l)

133 Cliff notes. Tea Party members played their cards/bluff.

Boner called them and they folded. You don't start a revolution without the votes. Getting elected doesn't mean you have any brains.

So what do we have here? Squandered votes on the wrong fight. Can you spell amateur? (I can't without spell check, ha ha).

Time to go to ground and regroup. Just saying, it's a long battle, don't use all your ammo on the first meeting. You'll be holding your dick in your hand when the others shoot your ass.

I've been fighting this battle since Nelson Rockefeller, who became my hero after he left politics for dying on top of his mistress from a heart attack.

As they said is some movie, "He came, and he went"

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (0FSuD)

134 ****Wrong. When I was in grad school in a highly technical field, there were a lot of foreigners in my department. About 4 years later, there was not a single white American that came in to the graduate program. My brother's department had mostly East Asian and Indian grad students. White students were a tiny minority. Same for other technical programs *in the USA*.****

I'd take a look at your department's acceptance practices, as well as those of universities nationwide. It's not like universities are institutionally colorblind or that a couple of departments in one university are indicative of the whole.

It really is a myth that there isn't enough native talent in the US to fill STEM jobs. The reality is - as has already been pointed out - the natives want more money. Immigrants, illegal or legal, ironically have more incentive to work for less.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (xSCb6)

135 http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html

Even former software industry entrepreneur CEO Vivek Wadhwa, now a defender of foreign worker programs who is quoted often in the press and who has testified to Congress in favor of expansion of the programs, has confessed,
--
I know from my experience as a tech CEO that H-1Bs are cheaper than domestic hires. Technically, these workers are supposed to be paid a "prevailing wage," but this mechanism is riddled with loopholes.
--
Wadhwa has also stated
--
I was one of the first [CEOs] to use H-1B visas to bring workers to the U.S.A. Why did I do that? Because it was cheaper.
--

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (ZPrif)

136 I just want to leave this here.
http://is.gd/bVTS7z

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (/kI1Q)

137 how about that? doubling down on whining!

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (LISuA)

138 124 Do we have any proof it is, or are we just accepting Silicon Valleys' word for it?

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (AkOaV)

I have posted many links to articles about this in the past. I am sure a few Bing searches will bring up said articles.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:36 AM (wlDny)

139 In honor of St. Paddy's Day, an interesting history of the song "Whiskey in the Jar"

http://www.avclub.com/article/long-and-winding-road-whiskey-jar-irish-musics-mos-216532

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:36 AM (7ObY1)

140 http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html

U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a Democrat whose Congressional district includes Silicon Valley, framed the wage issue at the hearing, sharing the response to her request for some wage numbers from the U.S. Department of Labor.

Lofgren said that the average wage for computer systems analysts in her district is $92,000, but the U.S. government prevailing wage rate for H-1B workers in the same job currently stands at $52,000, or $40,000 less.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:36 AM (ZPrif)

141 When the goverment started giving away 'free' stuff it enslaved millions, they just don't realize it.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at March 17, 2015 11:29 AM (74McK)

That presumes they know the difference between slavery and freedom. The typical Obama lo-info voter cares about the latest Kardashian nip-slip and little else.

Posted by: Banned by KBTX at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (mM6iZ)

142 Also I have some evidence of this from my brother in the Chemical industry who interviews new potential engineers. But can't say one person relates a trend.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (wlDny)

143 For the class: what *would* improve it?

Please show your work.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 17, 2015 11:10

One of my ongoing fights with establishment types (I'm talking about people in DC who do politics for a living) is their insistence that "they get it."

I can't tell you the number of times people said, "it won't be Hastret, Lott and Bush again if we ever get the chance/"

My arguement has always been it will be just that.

So far, I'm being proven right.

They won't even pass messaging bills to show they "get it." They are simply going right back to don't rock the boat, pass what lobbyists want and get paid in the end.

Posted by: DrewM. at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (ldFt4)

144 Posted by: rockmom at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (Q4elb)

Well, I don't know. But what I do know is that the government constantly sets up these "problems" to which the only solution is more government and more spending. And it seems to be outside the overton window to say, "hey, wait a minute guys... any way we can revisit the original problem here, which was created by government?"

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (AkOaV)

145 Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:33 AM (ZPrif)

Actually, it is not that easy for international students to get hired after graduation from college. A lot of companies are not willing to go through the paperwork to file for H1-B status. Being a US citizen or permanent resident is a HUGE advantage.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (shFKH)

146
Here - I seem to recall a time, right around 2003, when the GOP *had* the House, Senate, and the presidency....and STILL the GOP wasn't exactly courting conservatives.

The GOP really was only a conservative party under Reagan (who overcame resistance in the party in the first place). And perhaps briefly under Gingrich.

Other than that, it's been pro-business but also pro-government.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (MMC8r)

147 I suspect you see more of this in SEC and ACC schools than elsewhere in the country.

Why? Football has jack shit to do with engineering programs.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (/kI1Q)

148 What's your alternative, RIGHT NOW? Let the cuts happen, and watch all the doctors quit taking care of your Mom and Dad.
Posted by: rockmom at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (Q4elb)

But they have insurance and I gave it to them!!!

Posted by: Obama at March 17, 2015 11:38 AM (WNERA)

149 Boehner's daughter? What about the dude she married?

-
He wears a fool hat.

http://tinyurl.com/k79yf3v

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 17, 2015 11:38 AM (j6e8f)

150 All this whimpering about "Obama can veto and we can't override it" neglects the fact that we're not even making him veto shit. I'll start clutching my pearls about that once his veto numbers get into double digits. Right now he has fewer vetos than how many squirts of piss I'd give for GOP leadership.

Posted by: Bruce Jenners Plastic Vag at March 17, 2015 11:39 AM (A8mmh)

151 On one other note, having been an honorable, sometimes calling an asshole on the floor "honorable" can have a VERY VERY cutting affect.

Snarc is snarc. Assholes are assholes. Everyone knows they are "honorable assholes"

Long knives baby, long knives.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 17, 2015 11:39 AM (0FSuD)

152 Vic, do you have any numbers on all of that? I know conventional wisdom says that there are thousands of open jobs in STEM that are unfilled because us idiot 'Muricans can't figure out math, but I don't think that's true.

Do we have any proof it is, or are we just accepting Silicon Valleys' word for it?

I'm cynical, but I think it's the education system. The schools have likely seen there's a lot of money available if they push a STEM curriculum. Certainly there are lots of compelling arguments to insist on funding for computers and toys for engineering labs if you've decided that STEM is super ultra important.

You can't get that kind of funding if you just want the kids to read Chaucer.

Posted by: @JohnTant at March 17, 2015 11:39 AM (eytER)

153 I just want to leave this here.
http://is.gd/bVTS7z
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (/kI1Q)
**********
That is really low Heather...... Really hurtful

Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at March 17, 2015 11:39 AM (fLKzW)

154 Bring in the brainiacs, baby. King Dollar uber alles.

Posted by: Larry Kudlow at March 17, 2015 11:39 AM (W5DcG)

155 H1-B visa, let us not forget the 'diversity' in hiring practices that reward companies who have a 'diverse' labor force and is biased against white employees.

Posted by: Lessly H. at March 17, 2015 11:39 AM (Cbj2r)

156
What, exactly and precisely, will be sufficient control by Republicans for the Republicans to move forward on the agenda on which they ran?

Remember that glorious window between the election and the swearing in when we could pretend to hope things would be different when the new congress was seated?

Good times.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 17, 2015 11:40 AM (JtwS4)

157 http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/minimaloutline.html

Core issues:
--
Type I cheap labor: Legally required wage for H-1B below true market wage for the given worker.

Type II cheap labor: Employers hire young H-1Bs instead of older (35+) Americans.

No STEM labor shortage.

Employers want foreign workers in order to "handcuff" them.

Quality of the foreign workers lower on average than Americans; glut of foreign workers is causing an internal brain drain, thus real damage to economy.

What should be done/should not be done to reform.

Age issue:
--
"Older workers" means 35+.

Vast majority of H-1Bs young.

Employers save money, typically about 50%, by hiring young H-1Bs instead of older Americans.

Skills issue ("Older workers don't have the latest skills") is a red herring. (Americans training their foreign replacements; Wadhwa quote; my University of Michigan paper.)

Immobile workers:
--
H-1Bs are often sponsored by their employers for green cards.

This makes them effectively immobile.

Many employers, especially in Silicon Valley, LIKE this de facto indentured servitude, even more than the cheap-labor aspect.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:40 AM (ZPrif)

158 I suppose the questionable diamonds are going to remain...forever.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 17, 2015 11:40 AM (NUqwG)

159 Posted by: rockmom at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (Q4elb)

Crazy idea....find offsets in the budget for the new spending you want.

You seem to think "put it on our tab" is a viable plan. Boehner, Pelosi and Obama agree.

Posted by: DrewM. at March 17, 2015 11:40 AM (ldFt4)

160 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 17, 2015 11:36 AM (wlDny)

No, I mean I've seen the articles.

I just know a ton of STEM types out of work or making way less now then they were 10 years ago, and there doesn't seem to be a situation where demand is outstripping supply. My experience is specifically in tech, i can't speak to other engineering jobs and such.

I just have a hard time believing that there is truly this nationwide shortage of americans who are able to do STEM work. Maybe there is. I don't know. I'd just like to see some statistics. And I know it's a hard thing to measure.

But I just feel like there's more going on then "we don't have enough engineers." Because the industries which seem to have actual shortages in labor seem to be skilled labor like welders and diesel mechanics, but no ones proposing important welders from India to fill the "skills gap."

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:40 AM (AkOaV)

161 145 Actually, it is not that easy for international students to get hired after graduation from college. A lot of companies are not willing to go through the paperwork to file for H1-B status. Being a US citizen or permanent resident is a HUGE advantage.
==========================

In my experience Chique is absolutely right.

I don't get the focus here on H1B around here. Its just not that huge an employment issue. The real problem is lousy economic growth, and that's a problem with Progressivism (where employment and worker incomes just aren't important).

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:41 AM (LISuA)

162 That is not rhetorical.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:26 AM (mf5HN)

The GOP and its cheerleaders want us to forget, that it was only.... like... 12 years ago that the GOP HAD control of the House, Senate, and Presidency....

and while Obama is bad... THAT group laid the foundation...

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 17, 2015 11:41 AM (qh617)

163 Let the cuts happen, and watch all the doctors quit taking care of your Mom and Dad.

I'm pretty sure that blackmailing me into supporting the use of tax money for this isn't all that conservative either.....

Posted by: @JohnTant at March 17, 2015 11:42 AM (eytER)

164 A couple of years ago I was recruiting comp sci grads at University of Maryland grad school. There were no Merican candidates. None. Because first they were a small minority of the student population and 2 they did not go to recruiting events because they all has jobs lined up already with government or contractors who required US citizens for security work.

Posted by: blaster at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (amMYN)

165 Many employers, especially in Silicon Valley, LIKE this de facto indentured servitude, even more than the cheap-labor aspect.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:40 AM (ZPrif)

See, this I could buy as a legit reason Silicon Valley is pushing it.

Because I do know that THAT is an issue, with guys jumping around between companies chasing the money. That could suck if, say, an engineer at Apple leaves for Samsung while he's working on the latest iPad, and puts the program back 2 months while they bring his replacement up to speed.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (AkOaV)

166 I predicted this would happen on election night. I was told umpteen times that I'm too pessimistic and we need to give the GOP a chance.

How's that chance working out for everyone?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (0LHZx)

167 I'm not fond of Ace's "vote Democrat" strategy, as I just can't see where surrender to the OpFor is a survivable plan. However, though it pains me to say so, I'm teetering on the edge of not voting at all next go-round.

So far, all of our potential Presidential picks have voting records -- if not feet -- of clay. Or, almost as big a negative for me, they have talked a good game, but have not even tried to support their alleged "conservative" principles with meaningful action.

Look at the slime that has risen to the to of the Republican cesspool: Boner, Bitch McConnell, Prince Reebus, teh Jebster...it's a long line of failures, promise-breakers, and incompetent layabouts.

This is why I rant about the spineless eunuchs of the so-called Conservative Media: they have acted as enablers, not only for the worthless gits mentioned above, but all too often for Choom Boy himself.

If a true Conservative Party dares to rise from the sewer that Washington has become, I'll be there. Otherwise, I will console myself by watching the shitstorm pelt more dung down on us from as great a distance as possible.

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (P8YHq)

168 Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 2m2 minutes ago
ICYMI: MT @ImmigrationGOP Following huge layoffs of US workers replaced w/H-1Bs, head of SoCalEdison was invited to testify. He declined.

Immigration Subcmte @ImmigrationGOP 24m24 minutes ago
Business rep now urging us to "look at the evidence" on unemployment in STEM fields. Here's some evidence for you: http://1.usa.gov/1FvUydl

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (ZPrif)

169 I'd take a look at your department's acceptance practices, as well as those of universities nationwide. It's not like universities are institutionally colorblind or that a couple of departments in one university are indicative of the whole.

It really is a myth that there isn't enough native talent in the US to fill STEM jobs. The reality is - as has already been pointed out - the natives want more money. Immigrants, illegal or legal, ironically have more incentive to work for less.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (xSCb6)

I disagree. Are you saying that East Asians are useful for affirmative action purposes? And there weren't that many African American students in my department and no Hispanics, if I recall correctly. In fact, most of the time I was there, the few black students were African or Caribbean.

This is not isolated to the school I decided attend. In fact, one of my early roommates, a white guy in material sciences said white people were so rare now that his department was going after them.

The fact is that current American culture is such that American kids tend not to go in for hard STEM stuff, especially at the graduate level.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (shFKH)

170 Boner.
MUST.
GO!

Posted by: Bert O'Pharteen at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (zL/eJ)

171 Once upon a time our federal representatives discharged what they regarded as a temporary civic duty, and then returned to their home districts/states to resume their lives and careers as simple members of their communities.

That tradition needs to be restored, so that John Boehner can return to sweeping his daddy's barroom floor.

Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (UlI/7)

172 Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:10 AM (shFKH)

Sorry, I have to disagree here. Wages dictate labor supply. It's mainly about flooding the market with labor to lower wages. There would be enough Americans to do pretty much any job if the wages were commiserate.

While I appreciate what you and your siblings accomplished, our colleges shouldn't be importing people, training them, and then having them compete against native Americans. At least not even close to the numbers we see today.

We're hollowing out our STEM talent so a few top dogs can get cheaper labor.

Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (IiKvQ)

173 Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 17, 2015 11:37 AM (/kI1Q)

It may be a perception (and an incorrect one) that those schools are "not as good" because of the sports environment.

Interestingly though, here's one episode of a series that appears on the JumboTrons during football games at State: https://youtu.be/9k48c9Z1VjY

Posted by: Country Singer at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (8hctH)

174 You seem to think "put it on our tab" is a viable plan. Boehner, Pelosi and Obama agree.
Posted by: DrewM. at March 17, 2015 11:40 AM (ldFt4)

Yeah, eventually they stop letting you back in to the bar unless you pay that shit.

Trust me, I know. I'm banned from half the bars in DC.

Posted by: Boehner *hiccup* at March 17, 2015 11:44 AM (AkOaV)

175 The GOPe hates conservatives. I mean really....really hates conservatives. Look at their record over the last 75 years. Reagan bucked a trend and gained the nomination against GOPe headwinds. Other than that, look at the palooka's they throw up to run for President. A bunch of louts

Posted by: Genghis Cohen at March 17, 2015 11:44 AM (fLKzW)

176 May I suggest some reading that you might find to be of interest: http://tinyurl.com/2ecgc24
Posted by: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Hat R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn at March 17, 2015 11:31 AM (0Ew3K)

Oh man. I know exactly which tract that is mocking.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (mf5HN)

177 Actually, it is not that easy for international students to get hired after graduation from college. A lot of companies are not willing to go through the paperwork to file for H1-B status. Being a US citizen or permanent resident is a HUGE advantage.
--
I don't think you understand the issues at a larger level outside your own personal experience.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (ZPrif)

178 ****What's your alternative, RIGHT NOW? Let the cuts happen, and watch all the doctors quit taking care of your Mom and Dad.

Posted by: rockmom at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (Q4elb) ****

Not that you've ever been truly serious, but even for you, this is pretty cfuking ridiculous.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (xSCb6)

179 "In my church, for example, the American kids and
kids of non-native American parents (e.g., Indian, African, East Asian)
take very different paths post high school graduation. It's difficult
to find a white American kid who does something technical in college.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:21 AM (shFKH)"

Some of that could be due to having seen their fathers or older brothers laid off from tech jobs that were outsourced to India or China so that after exhausting their savings and unemployment benefits they eventually took jobs at Builder's Square after giving up hope of ever working in a STEM job again.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (KDbAT)

180 *pinch for all the moronettes not wearing green*

Posted by: flounder at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (FHh8u)

181 Rather than perpetual 'Doc-Fixes,' why not just remove the damn caps?

Oh, because that would upset the dishonest budgeting shell-game.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (MMC8r)

182 Most of the Companies that take advantage of their H1bs are owned by foreign nationals or immigrants like Vivek above.

Companies I have worked for pay their visa employees competitively and hire them because there are no US citizen candidates.

Posted by: blaster at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (amMYN)

183 130 I've never abstained from voting in my adult life, on the theory that you can only improve things you don't like by taking a positive action. I give money and time to the GOP too.

But I'm done, unless I see some progress. No support for the ticket, and not voting, even for my local representatives.

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:35 AM (LISuA)

____________

It's still important to vote at the local level. That;s where your vote actually does count. Shit like the local school board or district judge races....from a day to day effect on your life perspective, those are more important than what asshole represents you in congress. And since so many people don't bother to vote for the down-ballot races, each vote has proportionally that much more weight.

And also ballot measures.

So yeah leave the top races blank, but don't stop voting altogether.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 11:45 AM (0LHZx)

184 You can have a great job, 401K well paid, then get caught in a downsizing or an H1B scam.

Now you are out picking shit with the chickens, wondering if cashing in your 401k will meet your needs.

It is all part of the plan.

I take care of my corporations who fund my campaigns. Boy, pay attention the stock market is up.

Posted by: Obama at March 17, 2015 11:46 AM (WNERA)

185
I just want to leave this here.
http://is.gd/bVTS7z

*snort*

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 17, 2015 11:46 AM (JtwS4)

186 For a change of pace from going Mad Max

https://youtu.be/HuSf1UcFRq0

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 11:46 AM (tr/8D)

187 Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS 3m3 minutes ago
Sessions: Census says 74% of STEM grads not employed in STEM jobs

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:46 AM (ZPrif)

188 Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (shFKH)

Supply and demand should fix that. If there is a labor shortage, then wages in those industries will go up, 18 year old kids will see that, then go in to those industries.

We had a HUGE glut of comp sci and other "soft" engineering types in the early 2000s. Programmers were making 6 figures in the late '90s, since they were so rare.

If that's what the market dictates, then more kids will go in to STEM. But I don't THINK that's what the market is saying right now, since wages seem to be dropping and not going up.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:47 AM (AkOaV)

189 Off for ST Pat day fun. Just to let you know, Tillis, whom all you all poo pooed, was one of the 47 that signed the letter to Iran.

My man!

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 17, 2015 11:47 AM (0FSuD)

190 As a software consultant with about 12 years of experience, I can anecdotally that while foreign IT workers try hard, they're not very good at seeing big picture or creative problem solving. They are very good at following orders and toe-ing the line, which I wonder if sometimes is what companies REALLY want (that and cheap labor). The problem w/ American workers is that we're too independent and want too much of a horizontal structure. We're not very good at goose-stepping and saluting our superiors.

Posted by: Joshua at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (AUZJW)

191 Ah the lying sack of scotch that is Boehner.

I put together some tweets to hammer home the point of his hypocrisy: https://storify.com/tsrblke/scotch-before-honor

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (HDwDg)

192 DrewM all you do is whine about Republicans. Just leave the party, we are tired of you hardliners imposing your agenda on us.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (JuGhc)

193 DrewM all you do is whine about Republicans. Just leave the party, we are tired of you hardliners imposing your agenda on us.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (JuGhc)

194 Sessions: Census says 74% of STEM grads not employed in STEM jobs

We seriously need to be paying better attention to Mike Rowe.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (MMC8r)

195 Any early word on the Israeli elections yet?

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (7ObY1)

196 Actually, it is not that easy for international students to get hired after graduation from college. A lot of companies are not willing to go through the paperwork to file for H1-B status. Being a US citizen or permanent resident is a HUGE advantage.

__________

That's bullshit. I have hired or been part of the hiring process for tens if not a hundred plus IT workers over the years. Companies care about 1 thing...who is cheapest? If they can get an Indian for 25% cheaper than an American, citizenship or permanent resident means nothing. It's really easy to get a visa for workers as there are tons of loopholes and an entire industry that does it for you...for a low, low fee.

The only exception is federal govt work where some roles require citizenship. But as a % of all IT jobs, it's a drop in the ocean.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (0LHZx)

197 Off for ST Pat day fun. Just to let you know, Tillis, whom all you all poo pooed, was one of the 47 that signed the letter to Iran.

My man!

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 17, 2015 11:47 AM (0FSuD)
**********
Mel Tillis?

Posted by: Genghis Cohen at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (fLKzW)

198 Or maybe the Morons of the Horde will appreciate this game promotion from Japan - Ramen served with boobs.

http://www.ufunk.net/en/food/weird-ramen-festival/

Which again begs the question, was Japan nuked enough?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (tr/8D)

199 Chique-
It's true that Americans don't go into STEM fields in the numbers we need, but I think that's for two reasons. 1) Unwillingness to work that hard, and 2) the realization that all that hard work often doesn't pay off, in part because we've admitted so many foreigners into those programs. In that regard, reason 2 is a reasonable response to reality. Chicken and egg, but still.

Posted by: pep at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (YXmuI)

200 Sorry, I have to disagree here. Wages dictate labor supply. It's mainly about flooding the market with labor to lower wages. There would be enough Americans to do pretty much any job if the wages were commiserate.

While I appreciate what you and your siblings accomplished, our colleges shouldn't be importing people, training them, and then having them compete against native Americans. At least not even close to the numbers we see today.

We're hollowing out our STEM talent so a few top dogs can get cheaper labor.
Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (IiKvQ)

Look, I am not saying that companies do not hire H1-Bs for cheap labor. I'm saying that it's not the same story across the board.

I can believe that there are enough native American IT workers. But there are other fields out there.

And no matter how "accomplished" my family is, we don't have a right to be here; it is a privilege.

I'm just trying to point out that there's another side to the story. It's not one size fits all.

I'm not even proferring a policy argument.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (shFKH)

201 Authentic Hector

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (7ObY1)

202 @194
You believe that Klansman Sessions?

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 11:49 AM (JuGhc)

203 Any early word on the Israeli elections yet?

My money's on the Jooo.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:49 AM (MMC8r)

204 198 Or maybe the Morons of the Horde will appreciate this game promotion from Japan - Ramen served with boobs.

Yikes. It's like Hannibal Lector's lunch, with added anime weirdness.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:50 AM (7ObY1)

205 Any of you morons see the quarter page ad in the Detroit Free Press, probably in the early eighties, for someone with fifteen years experience designing heavy, armored, tracked vehicles? Chrysler ran the ad.

I thought it was a bogus ad. They probably already had someone doing the work and they wanted to see what kind of response they would get to use as leverage over the guy they already had.

Fourteen years experience and they could say you didn't have enough experience.

Designing heavy tracked construction equipment and they could say it wasn't applicable.

Designing heavy, armored, wheeled vehicle and they would again say, it wasn't applicable.

IF you had all the necessary bullet points on your resume, you probably already had a job that paid better.

Posted by: Lessly H. at March 17, 2015 11:50 AM (Cbj2r)

206 The encouraging take away is look at the States. Overwhelming GOP. Everywhere except the urban big-donk cities. There is a movement afoot... D.C. will be the last to know cause right up until it overwhelms them they'll be sure they can manage it. The answer to out of control DC is a concerted states-rights-federalism revival and I think the chances are good..... otherwise.. we're screwed.

Posted by: Yip at March 17, 2015 11:50 AM (84SRe)

207 Lots of this sentiment here looks like old-fashioned labor insecurity. You folks are worried about competition for jobs? Well, get used to it. Its a fact of life.

The issue is poor economic policies causing a bad economy. That's where job losses and flat-lined incomes come from. H1B visa entrants have literally nothing to do with your insecurity, and essentially nothing to do with the economic facts.

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:50 AM (LISuA)

208 I'm cynical, but I think it's the education system. The schools have likely seen there's a lot of money available if they push a STEM curriculum. Certainly there are lots of compelling arguments to insist on funding for computers and toys for engineering labs if you've decided that STEM is super ultra important.

Posted by: @JohnTant at March 17, 2015 11:39 AM (eytER)

As a professor of mathematics and engineering in a community college, I can tell you there is a huge difference between having a highly expensive STEM curriculum in high schools and actually teaching it. Even the "poor" public schools have technology and resources no one could have dreamed of two decades ago, yet the students I see in my developmental classes are nearly dysfunctional when it comes to mathematics and science.

Thanks to our PC-addled public education system Johnny knows a lot about "social justice" and "saving the planet", but couldn't add 2 and 2 to save his life.

Posted by: Banned by KBTX at March 17, 2015 11:51 AM (mM6iZ)

209 Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (MMC8r)

Yeah. I puruse the job listings fairly regularly (looking to move on to bigger and better things). I see a lot more skilled labor jobs with openings then I do STEMy jobs.

Diesel Mechanic seems to be a big one right now. I have a cousin who was a mechanic in the army, and the kid barely graduated high school but is making damned near 6 figures fixing big rigs for a regional trucking company now.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:51 AM (AkOaV)

210 Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (MMC8r

as a former STEM major, STEM is oversold. 4 years of undergrad basically qualifies you to a) be a lab tech or b) go to grad school. If you're lucky enough to get your foot into industry for "a" you'll make something around middle class money, but that's actually quite hard.

And every time a pharma company closes a product line the market gets flooded with skilled people.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 11:51 AM (HDwDg)

211 Have a nice glass of Chianti to go with the ramen dish.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 11:51 AM (tr/8D)

212 Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS 4m4 minutes ago
Salzman points out difference between "shortage" (not enough workers) & "market" which is when you can't find the worker you want for cheap

Michelle Malkin @michellemalkin 2m2 minutes ago
Infosys whistleblower Jay Palmer & @SenatorSessions mention H-1B whistleblowers barred from speaking. Sessions has confidential statements.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:51 AM (ZPrif)

213 Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 17, 2015 11:43 AM (IiKvQ)

Case in point... IT... specifically network engineering...

I know this industry well, as I have both worked in it... and TAUGHT network engineering classes for a number of years.

I went and got the certs you needed after I retired from the Navy... 17 years ago.... average salary for a Microsoft Cert Engineer (MCSE) was $67K..

Today.... it is $65K.

When you figure in inflation.... to keep the same buying power, that wage should be $92K.

When wages do not only not keep up with inflation, but DECREASE... there is not a Labor SHORTAGE.

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 17, 2015 11:51 AM (qh617)

214 190 As a software consultant with about 12 years of experience, I can anecdotally that while foreign IT workers try hard, they're not very good at seeing big picture or creative problem solving. They are very good at following orders and toe-ing the line, which I wonder if sometimes is what companies REALLY want (that and cheap labor). The problem w/ American workers is that we're too independent and want too much of a horizontal structure. We're not very good at goose-stepping and saluting our superiors.
Posted by: Joshua at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (AUZJW)

____________

Most (not all) Indian IT workers I've encountered aren't really that good. Sure their resume says they're Steve Jobs 2.0. Reality is virtually everything on their resume is a lie.

Some companies are starting to get it though. Pay an Indian $20/hr or pay an American $80/hr. Easy choice right? Well sure. Until you realize for every $20/hr spent, you will eventually need someone at $150/hr to come and fix what they wrote.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 11:52 AM (0LHZx)

215 Hector's back. Must be his lunch block at Senator Byrd Middle School.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 17, 2015 11:52 AM (S+el1)

216 I think it is time the Horde discusses Mitt Romney boxing Evander Holyfield.

Because that's a thing that is happening.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:52 AM (mf5HN)

217 You guys keep on talking about IT. There are other fields.

pep, regarding your reason #2, I don't see how admitting foreign students should discourage American kids from applying to a graduate program.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not saying anything about what should be done about H1-B visas. Being allowed to stay here as a foreigner is a privilege, not a right. It's just that not all H1-Bs are in IT and I think this is where most of the beef is.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:52 AM (shFKH)

218 Bite the ear, Mitt!

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 17, 2015 11:53 AM (JtwS4)

219 ****I disagree. Are you saying that East Asians are useful for affirmative action purposes?

The fact is that current American culture is such that American kids tend not to go in for hard STEM stuff, especially at the graduate level.****

No, I'm saying that the incentive structure (all the way around) is structured in favor of foreign minorities.

And I'll agree with Constanza here - the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 11:53 AM (xSCb6)

220 Lots of this sentiment here looks like old-fashioned labor insecurity.
You folks are worried about competition for jobs? Well, get used to it.
Its a fact of life.

Not at all. I'm in a government position, and 3 years from retirement. What else you got?

Posted by: pep at March 17, 2015 11:53 AM (YXmuI)

221 as a former STEM major, STEM is oversold. 4 years of undergrad basically qualifies you to a) be a lab tech or b) go to grad school. If you're lucky enough to get your foot into industry for "a" you'll make something around middle class money, but that's actually quite hard.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 11:51 AM (HDwDg)

True for the sciences, not for engineering.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:54 AM (shFKH)

222 For future use by rdbrewer, the illustrations of French author Victor Hugo

http://www.ufunk.net/en/insolite/victor-hugo/

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 11:54 AM (tr/8D)

223 I wish the term STEM would go away. It's encompasses too much. There's a huge difference between a chemist and a software engineer. Yet now they're all thrown together as STEM workers.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 11:54 AM (0LHZx)

224 Not at all. I'm in a government position, and 3 years from retirement. What else you got?

Posted by: pep at March 17, 2015 11:53 AM (YXmuI)
====================

Ha! Well said. Exactly the problem.

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:54 AM (LISuA)

225 Mitt will do really well in the first round. But then Candy Crowley is going to be the ref in the second round and he'll curl up into a ball in the middle of the ring and start crying.

Posted by: buzzion at March 17, 2015 11:55 AM (zt+N6)

226 I think it is time the Horde discusses Mitt Romney boxing Evander Holyfield.

Because that's a thing that is happening.
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:52 AM (mf5HN)

The Mitt Romneycare campaign of 2012 was history's most boring suicide note.

Posted by: Banned by KBTX at March 17, 2015 11:55 AM (mM6iZ)

227 Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:52 AM (shFKH

Indeed, and I think I have friends in every field from IT, to engineering to chemistry.

Fact is the labor market sucks and there are a lot of skilled people out there looking for work. Both my siblings with various forms of business degrees started out of college making more than I did with a degree in biology.

I've got friends with engineering degree, and experience and a military background who took months to find a job and arguably he got lucky.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 11:55 AM (HDwDg)

228 http://www.ufunk.net/en/food/weird-ramen-festival/

Which again begs the question, was Japan nuked enough?
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 11:48 AM (tr/8D)

I'm not sure what you mean. Ramen and boobs are somehow a bad thing?

Posted by: Insomniac at March 17, 2015 11:55 AM (2Ojst)

229 Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:52 AM (shFKH)

The reason we keep talking IT is because its not texas instruments lobbying for the influx is foreign workers, it's IT companies in Silicon Valley.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (AkOaV)

230 Any of you morons see the quarter page ad in the Detroit Free Press, probably in the early eighties, for someone with fifteen years experience designing heavy, armored, tracked vehicles? Chrysler ran the ad.

I thought it was a bogus ad. They probably already had someone doing the work and they wanted to see what kind of response they would get to use as leverage over the guy they already had.

Posted by: Lessly H. at March 17, 2015 11:50 AM (Cbj2r)

I won't reply to blind box ads. Why? Because I know of many, many companies and firms that run those ads not because they are hiring but simply to see if their employees respond.

If you will not tell me who you are at the earliest stage of the interview process, you have proven that you are untrustworthy as an employer.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (mf5HN)

231 Tangential to the STEM debate, there is big concern in the American airline industry with a current and future pilot shortage. Among the interesting data presented in the debate is that new hire pilots (out of flight school) for regional airlines (a typical first pilot job for those without other experience such as military pilots) are paid about $20,000 per year. Since this is 2/3 the pay of a Seattle McJob...

Posted by: RioBravo at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (NUqwG)

232 So is it real?

Mitt 'the Milquetoast' Romney is actually getting in the ring with a real, though retired, boxer?

Two men enter the ring, one leaves for ICU.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (tr/8D)

233 I think it is time the Horde discusses Mitt Romney boxing Evander Holyfield.

Mitt will stand in a corner and smile while he's pummelled.

Just like 2012.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (MMC8r)

234
Holyfield's ear was one of the early glories of the internet. Whenever I read a story that says "Tyson bit a piece of his ear off" I was skeptical and assumed maybe a nick.

But there, in the old days of read a file name and download a picture over telephone modem, was an actual picture of part of the ear missing.

That and the times when the Jamie Lee Curtis naked file names were accurate were the glories of early internet.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (JtwS4)

235 I'm not sure what you mean. Ramen and boobs are somehow a bad thing?

Separately, they are both very good things.

Together in a bowl? Not such very good things.

Unless you're a cannibal.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (7ObY1)

236 I do agree that since most foreigners come from more authoritarian societies, we are not as good as native Americans at out of the box thinking. I will give you that.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (shFKH)

237 Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (mf5HN)
-----
They also use it to collect data on salary expectations...

Posted by: RioBravo at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (NUqwG)

238 Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:50 AM (LISuA)

Uh.... why....

Last time I looked WE were the citizens of this country....

And this government is supposed to be looking out for US.... not the rest of the world...

I gave my Youth to serve this country.... went and did some pretty shitty things which will stain my soul... saw things which were horrific....

To defend this Country....

And now... the thanks I get is to have foreigners come in and take My Job? and the Job of my Son, once HE gets done serving this Nation (he is Active duty USN).

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (qh617)

239 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 11:55 AM (HDwDg)

My friend has a masters degree in microbiology. He says that degree qualifies him to
a) be a lab monkey
b) apply to become a phd, and hope that they can get a job working for big pharma or teaching at a college

which is why he's a sys admin and does IT work.

But essentially all his nerdy buddies out there who followed his education path are in the same shoes as him.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (AkOaV)

240 I think it is time the Horde discusses Mitt Romney boxing Evander Holyfield.

Won't be the first time Mitt's gotten his ass beat by a black guy.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (2Ojst)

241 >>The H-1B work visa is fundamentally about cheap, de facto indentured labor.
<<

Read the WSJ Op-Ed on this today. Your head will explode.

Two words: knowledge transfer. It tells the story of how TaTa and Infosys are using people from India to replace U.S. workers in the U.S.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (GGCsk)

242 227 Fact is the labor market sucks and there are a lot of skilled people out there looking for work.
======================

Exactly. "Its the economy, stupid", Carville famously said. And he was right. H1B visas are completely beside the point.

Posted by: MTF, Logan Act Prisoner-in-waiting at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (LISuA)

243 Won't be the first time Mitt's gotten his ass beat by a black guy.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (2Ojst)

Thread winner!!

Posted by: Banned by KBTX at March 17, 2015 11:58 AM (mM6iZ)

244 And while everyone focuses on H1B, it's the wrong focus. The real scam is in L1 visas. That's a visa for a "temporary" worker from a foreign company coming to the US.

The way it's abused is a shell company, Company A in India is created. It hires 20 employees. All of those 20 employees are then sent to the US to work for American companies. Then when those visas expire, the 20 employees move on to Company B and get a fresh round of visas since they now work for another company. Company A folds. Rinse and repeat.

And unlike H1B, there is no cap on L1 visas.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 11:58 AM (0LHZx)

245 The reason we keep talking IT is because its not texas instruments lobbying for the influx is foreign workers, it's IT companies in Silicon Valley.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (AkOaV)

Sure. Like I said, I was just providing a non-IT perspective.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:58 AM (shFKH)

246 I'm waiting for Bristol Palin vs. Meggie Mac McCain.

In the ring, 12 rounds. Pay-per-view. I'm so there.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:58 AM (7ObY1)

247 pep, regarding your reason #2, I don't see how admitting foreign
students should discourage American kids from applying to a graduate
program.

Because they look at the lives of native-born American STEM types, and judge whether their standard of living is worth the sacrifice up front. Let's face it, while the country as a whole, or a particular company, does derive some benefit, the STEM individual is competing in an extremely tight market, so remuneration is suppressed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't admit foreign grad students, but there is a price, and right now, that price is that Americans don't think STEM is worth the effort. They are wrong, but that's their perception.

Posted by: pep at March 17, 2015 11:58 AM (YXmuI)

248 Obama declines to renew emergency oil pact with Israel:

http://tinyurl.com/k37jcfa

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 17, 2015 11:59 AM (BZAd3)

249 Citizen X, Bristol in Round One because she used a wolf trap baited with lunch.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 11:59 AM (tr/8D)

250 So Bibi's gonna lose the election cause Obama sent money and America's top voter turnout experts to Israel to boost the Arab vote.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 11:59 AM (ZPrif)

251 246 I'm waiting for Bristol Palin vs. Meggie Mac McCain.

In the ~~ring~~ pool filled with pudding, 12 rounds. Pay-per-view. I'm so there.
Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 11:58 AM (7ObY1)

FTFY

Posted by: Insomniac at March 17, 2015 11:59 AM (2Ojst)

252 Villains never see themselves as the bad guy.

Say hello to the bad guy and my little friend.

Posted by: Tony Montana at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (cL79m)

253 I think biology/chemistry/physics BS degrees are a pathway to med school or PhD programs if you want to actually make a decent living.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (shFKH)

254 Indeed, and I think I have friends in every field from IT, to engineering to chemistry.

Fact is the labor market sucks and there are a lot of skilled people out there looking for work. Both my siblings with various forms of business degrees started out of college making more than I did with a degree in biology.

I've got friends with engineering degree, and experience and a military background who took months to find a job and arguably he got lucky.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 11:55 AM (HDwDg)

Isn't it highly regional as well?

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (mf5HN)

255 249 Citizen X, Bristol in Round One because she used a wolf trap baited with lunch.

Heh.

Who would the GOP's best boxer be?

Ted "the Terminator" Cruz?

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (7ObY1)

256 Standard response from Congress Critters is that we can't take an all or nothing approach. Or so says "conservative" Ryan Costello (R-PA). Lame fucker folder barely 1 month into his term.

The honest truth is they are taking the nothing approach. They are not even fighting for anything.

GOP, pineapple, barb-wire, salt. Some assembly required.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (JOG+K)

257 Posted by: RioBravo at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (NUqwG)

That's another industry that unions and government have ruined.

Pilots get paid jack shit unless they're flying for a national airline. And even then, the old school guys are making 3 times as much as they will ever make, since they're locked in to the "old pay scale".

Yet to fly for a big airline, you need a lot of experience. So unless you flew big planes for the air force, you need to make shit working for a regional carrier for a decade before you can even apply to hopefully make good money at a national airline.

Thus the shortage in labor at national airlines. No one is willing to risk 10 years of making $20k a year in the hops of landing a $100k a year job.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (AkOaV)

258 Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM (mf5HN)

I had a friend of my wife get a cushy job at Microsoft for that. He applied to something on craigslist and it turned out to a be a sweet deal.
I told him he was lucky as there was a 50% chance it was a scam.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (AkOaV

Masters in biology is a path to nowhere. You'd be better with the 2 years in work experience.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:54 AM (shFKH)

In a hot market, I'd agree, in this one, you're still going to fight for every job with people with far more experience.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (HDwDg)

259 ****A lot of companies are not willing to go through the paperwork to file for H1-B status. Being a US citizen or permanent resident is a HUGE advantage.****

Any company who doesn't have an HR department (or contractor) which has the software and personnel to knock this out easily is WAY behind the power curve.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 17, 2015 12:01 PM (xSCb6)

260 I think it is time the Horde discusses Mitt Romney boxing Evander Holyfield.

Won't be the first time Mitt's gotten his ass beat by a black guy.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 17, 2015 11:57 AM (2Ojst)

Yeah, Romney was quoted as saying something about it just being an exhibition, and there wouldn't be any real fighting going on.

Eh... Mitt, that's kinda what got you into trouble last time. You were putting on a show, whereas the other guy was dead set on beating the carp out of you.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 17, 2015 12:01 PM (TOk1P)

261 Megyn Kelly vs. Mika Boobinski

(Yes, PIXY, her name is fcuking MIKA

Stop changing it to "Mike.")

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 12:02 PM (7ObY1)

262 Mitt 'the Milquetoast' Romney is actually getting in the ring with a real, though retired, boxer?

Who's going to be the ring girl? Tonya Harding?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 17, 2015 12:02 PM (zF6Iw)

263 If you will not tell me who you are at the earliest stage of the interview process, you have proven that you are untrustworthy as an employer.
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 11:56 AM

^^^^This.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 17, 2015 12:02 PM (h4vJk)

264 Isn't it highly regional as well?
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (mf5HN)

Definitely. But many people are willing to relocate for a good job....

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:03 PM (AkOaV)

265 Who's going to be the ring girl? Tonya Harding?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 17, 2015 12:02 PM (zF6Iw)

It's going to be in Utah, so there won't be a ring girl.

Posted by: steveegg at March 17, 2015 12:03 PM (cL79m)

266 Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (mf5HN

Yes it is. But I my friends are spread across the country.

If you have no ties to anything, you can do a nationwide net and find a decent job. But god help you if you need to stay in a region.

Hell, I live in St. Louis, we have a Tier 1 research institution, Mon-freaking-santo, (and it's various chemincal spin offs) Sigma, Pfizer, Launch Code, Boeing, AB...you see where this is going.

And yet, Pfizer laid of 200 people in 2009 and the market still hasn't absorbed it to the point that a BS and 3 years of full time work experience gets you about 32k here (if you can make it through the gauntlet.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 12:03 PM (HDwDg)

267 Mitt 'the Milquetoast' Romney

Needs a better nickname.

Howzabout Mitt "The Barber" Romney?

Because GHEY HAIRCUTS

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 12:03 PM (7ObY1)

268 Cheap labor doesn't mean $4/hr picking watermelons.
It means cheap relative to the current market.
It could be $50k, could be $100k, could be $1M.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 12:03 PM (ZPrif)

269 OT: Just got a call for medical compensation related to having taken blood thinner medication. I think it was the same guy who called before for Microsoft technical support. I guess this means all the computer problems have been cleared up! The future is in the medical field!

Posted by: RioBravo at March 17, 2015 12:03 PM (NUqwG)

270 It's going to be in Utah, so there won't be a ring girl.

YOWZA!

Ring BOYS!

Posted by: Noted Pederast Hairy Reid at March 17, 2015 12:04 PM (7ObY1)

271 We got sold down the river and Boehner should be tarred and feathered.

And they are selling the DOD down the river also.

Fuck them all, may die a horrible painful death one day

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 17, 2015 12:04 PM (rDqRv)

272 If only there were a large tub of poison Kool-Aid to drink from, it could help put us out of our misery.

Although I'm certain Jim Jones had a rosier outlook than DrewM.

Posted by: jwest at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (9ZZd+)

273 All the bithcing here about competition for jobs sounds very Marxist. Face it, you want big daddy government to protect your jobs. That is socialism right there.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (JuGhc)

274 On foreign students.

I will say this: the Indian Post-doc in our lab made less than I did and worked Saturdays (and probably 10 hour days, so 60+ hour weeks.)

Our bosses factored this in.

Mind you I didn't come in demanding a high and mighty wage either. They literally offered me the HR minimum for the position and I said "great, I'll start as soon as the paperwork goes through."

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) who misses sleep at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (HDwDg)

275 All the bithcing here about competition for jobs sounds very Marxist. Face it, you want big daddy government to protect your jobs. That is socialism right there.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (JuGhc)

276 Anyway, at least the current H1-B folks (of whom I was one - full disclosure) are here legally. What really frosts me is the illegal immigrants.

Oh, and by the way, in my experience and those of others I know, you are not necessarily irrevocably tied to a company if they file for your green card. In many cases, you'll have to work for them for one to a few years, and if you leave before then, you'll pay them back the money it cost them to file for you (prorated). I don't know if this is the case for all companies.

My previous employer annoyed me and I left before my 2 years were up.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (shFKH)

277 Man, this place is just sunshine and flowers today.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (LA7Cm)

278 Jessica Vaughan @JessicaV_CIS 8m8 minutes ago
Palmer, former IT hiring manager: "We were not allowed to hire Americans."

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 17, 2015 12:06 PM (ZPrif)

279 It's a truth of human nature that the bad guy rarely realizes he or she is the bad guy. Most of the time they rationalize the bad things they do, one way or another. They explain it away: it's for the greater good, they tell themselves. It's for the country, it's for the children. However, a gift for rationalization doesn't make the bad guy any less of a bad guy.

My point is that Boehner probably believes what he's doing is for the best. The best of what or for whom--himself, the GOP, the country--I'm not sure.

Posted by: troyriser at March 17, 2015 12:06 PM (7F9i5)

280 Lunch time and then back to writing.

https://youtu.be/I3lD0xEWgAk

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 17, 2015 12:06 PM (tr/8D)

281 Hector really likes Drew doesn't he? He always singles Drew out.

Drew and Hector sitting in a tree, f-a-p-p-i-n-g

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 12:06 PM (7ObY1)

282 Pilots get paid jack shit unless they're flying for a national airline. And even then, the old school guys are making 3 times as much as they will ever make, since they're locked in to the "old pay scale".

Yet to fly for a big airline, you need a lot of experience. So unless you flew big planes for the air force, you need to make shit working for a regional carrier for a decade before you can even apply to hopefully make good money at a national airline.

Thus the shortage in labor at national airlines. No one is willing to risk 10 years of making $20k a year in the hops of landing a $100k a year job.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:00 PM (AkOaV)

_____________

A decade ago, I was invited by my boss to his country club. Pull out the stereotype book on what a country club is and this place was it. My boss was a millionaire many times over.

Who do we play with that day? Why a couple of American Airlines pilots. And I'm thinking, damn, these dudes must do OK. Turns out at the time, the very senior pilots flying the Asia routes were making in the $250-300K a year.

That's all gone now, but man musta been a good gig being a pilot in the 80s-mid 00s

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 12:06 PM (0LHZx)

283 Hector really likes Drew doesn't he? He always singles Drew out.

Borderline Personality Disorder is a bitch.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 12:07 PM (MMC8r)

284 @272
The people here are a bunch of cultists. If ace or drew instructed them to drink poison, they would as good little Marxists.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:07 PM (JuGhc)

285 Man, this place is just sunshine and flowers today.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (LA7Cm)

That's what happens when we miss out on the regularly scheduled dose of DOOM.

Posted by: steveegg at March 17, 2015 12:08 PM (cL79m)

286 OK, it's been a good discussion, guys. I should sign off now.

Later!

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 12:08 PM (shFKH)

287 Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (shFKH)

I don't think our bitching here is about the actual people who come in on the visas (good for them!), more about the crony capitalists in DC being dishonest, and our politicians being dishonest, and everyone saying, "well, shit 90 million americans are out of work. But unfortunately none of them are smart or skilled enough to do these STEM jobs, so we need to hire Indians for half the price."

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:08 PM (AkOaV)

288 Face it, you want big daddy government to protect your jobs. That is socialism right there.

Posted by: Authentic Republican

Gosh darn it, you caught me.

Posted by: pep at March 17, 2015 12:09 PM (YXmuI)

289 I'm waiting for Bristol Palin vs. Meggie Mac McCain.
In the ring, 12 rounds. Pay-per-view. I'm so there.

In a street fight. No rules.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 17, 2015 12:09 PM (+36KQ)

290 Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:07 PM (JuGhc)

Definitely.

But I draw the line at removing my testicles. ace could not convince me to do that no matter how hard he tried.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:09 PM (AkOaV)

291 I yield back the balance of my time to the miserable bastard from Ohio.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 17, 2015 12:09 PM (b4JMJ)

292 I'm sure Hector would love to tell us the valuable contribution illegals bring to our country. Tell us, please, Hector.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 17, 2015 12:10 PM (MMC8r)

293 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 17, 2015 12:06 PM (0LHZx)

My buddies dad works for American. He probably started working there in the '70s or '80s.

As far as I know, he's still on the old pay scale, and is making $300k a year. Obviously I don't ask, but I know when we were younger my buddy mentioned his old man was making close to $300k to "be a glorified bus driver" and that he loved it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:10 PM (AkOaV)

294 I yield to the noted pederast from Nevada.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 17, 2015 12:10 PM (7ObY1)

295 Just wanted to use this post to say goodbye to rhino motherfucker Mark Kirk of illinois. I don't care if Louis Farrahkan runs against you, you ain't getting my vote this time around. Same for the rest of the Republican party. You are dead to me.

Posted by: Illinois repub at March 17, 2015 12:11 PM (2yD4G)

296 NOOD posers.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:12 PM (AkOaV)

297 Enough already. This is politics as usual.... It's not like it wasn't expected....

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at March 17, 2015 12:12 PM (Bn6aD)

298 (JuGhc)

So Hector's anal seepage hasn't stopped yet, I see.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 17, 2015 12:12 PM (kff5f)

299 @292
What do white trash fols like you bring to the table? Endless bitching and wanting the government to take care of them? Many of those illegals bust their asses, while people like you hang out on blogs collecting a government check.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:12 PM (JuGhc)

300 while people like you hang out on blogs collecting a government check.
Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:12 PM (JuGhc)

Hey, wait a second...

Wheres MY government check?!

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 17, 2015 12:13 PM (AkOaV)

301 Gosh darn it, you caught me.
Posted by: pep at March 17, 2015 12:09 PM (YXmuI)

And you nearly got away from it, if it weren't for that meddling kid.

Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 17, 2015 12:13 PM (mf5HN)

302 Sorry, off-topic, but I had to share.

"There is more racism in the Justice Department than ther is in anywhere I see in the St. Louis area," Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder said in an interview with NewsMaxTV Monday. "We are making progress. We've come an enormous way in 50 years. That's not to say we don't still have more to do. But it is the left - it is the Eric Holder and Obama left - and their minions who are obsessed with race, while the rest of us are moving on beyond it."

This guy I never heard of for President!!!

Posted by: FUBAR at March 17, 2015 12:14 PM (PUUhd)

303 All you people do all day is bitch and moan about how cruel life is. Has it dawned on you that you are powerless.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:14 PM (JuGhc)

304 Just wanted to use this post to say goodbye to rhino motherfucker Mark Kirk of illinois.
--------------

There still seems to be some misunderstanding as to who the authentic Republicans are and who the RINOs are. It will be interested to see how long this can possibly last.

If nearly all Republicans are 'RINO'...

Posted by: RioBravo at March 17, 2015 12:14 PM (NUqwG)

305 Boehner may go down in history as one of the best Speakers the Democrats ever had.

Posted by: Marmo at March 17, 2015 12:14 PM (QW+AD)

306 Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (JuGhc)

We don't want them to protect our jobs...

But we do want them to stop F'n with the Job market...

NO country can sustain unlimited immigration... we are seeing the fruits of that right now...

With current LEGAL limits of right at 1 Million immigrants per year.... over 32 years... which is a generation now days.... that's 32 Million foreign born....

With a population of 320 million.... that is 10% LEGAL foreign born immigrants.

Now add in all the loopholes... H1bs... illegals... and I estimate we need to double that....

so 20% foreign born...

NO society can assimilate that...

I look out my window every day, here in the town I was born in... in Central Calif 55 years ago... and see the cultural change...

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 17, 2015 12:15 PM (qh617)

307 Wasn't Jessica Vaughn the chick who blew the preacher and appeared in Playboy?

Posted by: 1bulwetweft at March 17, 2015 12:16 PM (gfB4n)

308 Damn... sorry folks... sucked in by a concern troll...

OUT...

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 17, 2015 12:17 PM (qh617)

309 I look out my window every day, here in the town I was born in... in Central Calif 55 years ago... and see the cultural change...
Posted by: BB Wolf at March 17, 2015 12:15 PM (qh617)
-------
Got hope with that change?

Posted by: RioBravo at March 17, 2015 12:17 PM (NUqwG)

310 You Fucked-Up ....you trusted us.

Posted by: Boehner ready for the toga party at March 17, 2015 12:23 PM (WujO7)

311 273 All the bithcing here about competition for jobs sounds very Marxist. Face it, you want big daddy government to protect your jobs. That is socialism right there.
Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:05 PM (JuGhc)

Wanting your government to protect its sovereignty is now marxism. Wow the left just keeps getting loopier.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 17, 2015 12:25 PM (Y92Nd)

312 @306
Spoken like a true socialist afraid of competition.

Posted by: Authentic Republican at March 17, 2015 12:34 PM (JuGhc)

313 Yet again putting lie to the whole "social liberal, fiscal conservative" meme as well.

Posted by: Polichinello at March 17, 2015 12:44 PM (bTfaD)

314 Chique d'afrique, thanks for replying: I *DEFINITELY* understand fatigue at our increasingly dire political straits, and I think it's good to enjoy (and be grateful to God for) the good things in life. For me it's lunch with friends at work today, under beautiful skies; having work; coming home from work to a wonderful family; and God's salvation through Christ that strengthens me each day. I'm just glad Drew's doing the Lord's work of documenting the crimes of the political class.

Posted by: Bubba at March 17, 2015 12:53 PM (bpn7O)

315 Designing heavy, armored, wheeled vehicle and they would again say, it wasn't applicable.

IF you had all the necessary bullet points on your resume, you probably already had a job that paid better.

Generally an ad like that is run when a company has somebody they want to hire and they are required by some regulation (government contract) to put out an ad for the position. They run the ad tailored to that person they have in mind and surprise - he is the only person with those exact skill sets to apply. Then they get to hire them. Its all Kabuki theater to satisfy the letter of some regulation.

Posted by: An Observation - I use Silver Bullet gun oil at March 17, 2015 01:05 PM (hppwY)

316 GOP house members are exactly like abused wives. Beaten and inseminated by their master Boehner. What do you say to a GOP house member who has two black eyes? Nothing, he's already been told twice! They even serve him drinks afterwards.

Posted by: torabora at March 17, 2015 01:34 PM (zucDB)

317 I am becoming less and less interested in politics because I feel it's quite hopeless.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 17, 2015 11:15 AM (shFKH)

Article V Convention.

Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid at March 17, 2015 01:44 PM (cZOkr)

318 I hate liberturdians.

They're the reason we're where are now.

Go back to the dimocrap party where you belong.

Oh! They don't want you either?

Take the hint

Posted by: Uncle Rick at March 17, 2015 01:52 PM (ZbB1q)

319 Drew: you mean "he is now proactively negotiating" -- right?

Otherwise, right on.

Posted by: Beverly Cooper at March 17, 2015 02:36 PM (eFXM3)

320
Two questions, and I think we know the answers to both.
1. Does the administration have the capability to eavesdrop on every electronic communication we have, especially our politicians?
2. Would the current administration use any compromising information to influence opposing politicians?

Posted by: Brian at March 17, 2015 03:44 PM (63VQY)

321 I swear, Boehner is sleeping with Pelosi. It's the only explanation for his abrupt surrender to the Democrats. The Democrats still run the House. Pelosi is the real Speaker. Boehner is just that orange guy that cries and takes smoke breaks. Between Boehner and McConnell, I am not sure who has more responsibility in the death of the Republican party. I think I hate the Republicans now more than I hate the Democratic party. At least the Dems are up front and honest about who they are. These current spate of Republicans are nothing but egregious liars. I'll take an honest ass***e over an ass***e that tries to pretend he's a mensch.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at March 17, 2015 07:25 PM (2/oBD)

322 Brian

You bring up a good point: is the administration somehow blackmailing the House and Senate leadership? Is the White House using surveillance to spy on the Republicans? I wouldn't put it past them, and yes, it would be very Nixonian. The only other plausible explanation that could explain the abrupt surrender by Republicans is the suggestion I made in my previous post: Boehner is sleeping with Pelosi.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at March 17, 2015 07:29 PM (2/oBD)

323 John Boehner, the fucking inept and compromised cocksucking drunk democrat from Ohio.

Posted by: Al Swearengen at March 18, 2015 03:49 PM (dUJyb)

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