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Democratic Controlled House Of Representatives Considering Proposal To Add 100+ Billion Dollars In Deficit Spending
If only the GOP had won last November none of this would be happening.
House leaders are closing in on a deal to permanently avert cuts in payments to physicians under Medicare, two House aides confirmed Friday. The deal would offset only about $70 billion of the more than $200 billion cost of making the permanent fix, however. This would likely draw opposition from conservatives over budget concerns.So, $130 billion in new deficit spending to "permanently" deal with the "Doc-fix?" Swell. What's the "Doc-fix" you might ask and why is it such a problem? Well, it's a problem that needs "fixing" because it cuts spending. That's the only kind of "problem" DC ever tries to fix. Back in the 90s the GOP Congress set up caps on reimbursement rates doctors could charge Medicare. This seemed like a fun idea because at the time rates were no where near the cap. Well, early in the 2000s the rates when up and the caps were reached. Their bluff called, Congress promptly folded and passed the first of 17 "doc-fixes" to ensure the spice, er, money flowed. Back in 2009 Obama swore they would never do another doc-fix and counted the cuts that everyone knew would never be implemented as savings to make the ObamaCare numbers work. They lied. So now the GOP has decided to ride to rescue and simply up the numbers "permanently" or for 10 years which is what counts as "permenant" in federal budgeting. You'd think all that money flowing would be enough to get Democrats to sign on but you'd be wrong. They apparently need some carrots to give Boehner the votes. Hey, they've got the guy by the short hairs, might as well cash in.
For quite a while now, aides and lawmakers have expected another patch — Congress has now opted for a short-term SGR solution 17 times — but there have also been some rumors that a deal could come together where the SGR formula would be repealed and the Children’s Health Insurance Program would be extended. Republicans could win on some yet-to-be-named changes to the Medicare payment system, while the extension — even potential expansion — of the Children’s Health Insurance Program would be a carrot to Democrats.So the GOP, the allegedly majority party, gets some unnamed future gimmicks that won't cut spending and the Democrats get a hike in spending for one of their most cherished spending programs. You remember SCHIP, don't you? It's the plan the GOP gave to the Democrats as a consolation prize for defeating HillaryCare back in the 90s.
Senator Orrin G. hosta, a conservative Republican, today embraced a major Democratic effort to provide health insurance for half of the nation's 10 million uninsured children, saying he would become the chief sponsor of the legislation. Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, wrote much of the bill, which would increase the Federal tax on tobacco products to finance health care for children. The two Senators announced their plans at a conference of the Children's Defense Fund. Congress has barely begun work on the legislation. No hearings have been held, and the tax increase on cigarettes faces an uphill battle. But Mr. hosta's announcement was a coup for advocates of child health programs, including many DemocratsGeorge W. Bush vetoed previous Democratic attempts to expand the program back in 2007 to cover increasingly well off kids and families but signed off a two year fix that kept eligibility levels the same. Obama "fixed" that in 2009. Oh and the last time Boehner brought up the "doc-fix" he didn't have enough GOP votes so he held a surprise "voice vote" no one knew was happening to ram it through.
See, when Democrats lose they comeback for incremental gains later. When the GOP wins, they comeback for incremental Democratic gains later. Neat, huh?
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
And on this note of Doom, time to go face reality.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 16, 2015 10:38 AM (d2MTZ)
2
Add? instead of Had in the title
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 10:39 AM (A6vWB)
3
And in return the Dens are going to lift the sequestration on the DOD right? Right? Right?
And in other outstanding news:
UNREAL Obama Admin Removes Iran And Hezbollah From List Of Terrorism Threats
Hmmm, I wonder what the White Houses motivation for removing them was?
Weasel Zippers
What Election?
And in other outstanding news:
UNREAL Obama Admin Removes Iran And Hezbollah From List Of Terrorism Threats
Hmmm, I wonder what the White Houses motivation for removing them was?
Weasel Zippers
What Election?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 10:41 AM (rDqRv)
4
Fleas of a thousand camels. Their crotches. Some assembly required.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 10:41 AM (2Ojst)
5
make it stop.....
Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 16, 2015 10:41 AM (u8GsB)
6
Raise taxes on sugar.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Posted by: Bollunde Roils at March 16, 2015 10:42 AM (5wdEe)
7
UNREAL Obama Admin Removes Iran And Hezbollah From List Of Terrorism Threats
Because of course the only thing that made them state sponsors of terror was that Bush said so, no it's 'fixed' and we're all friends. One of whom calls the other 'great satan'
Because of course the only thing that made them state sponsors of terror was that Bush said so, no it's 'fixed' and we're all friends. One of whom calls the other 'great satan'
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 10:42 AM (A6vWB)
8
Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:42 AM (M1uf/)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:43 AM (M1uf/)
10
9 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:43 AM (M1uf/)
Piss on the ashes.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:43 AM (M1uf/)
Piss on the ashes.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 10:43 AM (2Ojst)
11
*ragetwitches on ground*
Oh the doctor fix. Arrrrgggghhhh.
This is why I no longer believe any single solitary word about any politician (yes, pick Walker or Jindal or Brat or anyone else) about actually cutting spending in the manner that normal human beings mean, by which I mean spending less money than before.
Every time this comes up, the doctor fix is implemented. We're just dickering over how much.
Every. Single. Time.
Add in Grassley's oh we can't use our words to explain what we're going to cut because that's icky and arrrrgggghhh.
*stompys all over everything*
Oh the doctor fix. Arrrrgggghhhh.
This is why I no longer believe any single solitary word about any politician (yes, pick Walker or Jindal or Brat or anyone else) about actually cutting spending in the manner that normal human beings mean, by which I mean spending less money than before.
Every time this comes up, the doctor fix is implemented. We're just dickering over how much.
Every. Single. Time.
Add in Grassley's oh we can't use our words to explain what we're going to cut because that's icky and arrrrgggghhh.
*stompys all over everything*
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 10:43 AM (mf5HN)
12
It's a shame that we don't have some kind of defining document to lay out the roles and authorities of each of the three co-equal branches of our Government.
It would cut down the amount of authority juggling that goes on at the end of each election.
It would cut down the amount of authority juggling that goes on at the end of each election.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (j3OmN)
13
Okay.
Whatever Moron what told us about the new thread... I got a bone to pick wit youse.
You said "Doom." "Doom" has a very specific meaning here, and I do *NOT* see Monty's name attached to this thread.
*stares*
Whatever Moron what told us about the new thread... I got a bone to pick wit youse.
You said "Doom." "Doom" has a very specific meaning here, and I do *NOT* see Monty's name attached to this thread.
*stares*
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (M1uf/)
14
Back in the 90s the GOP Congress set up caps on reimbursement rates doctors could charge Medicare.
Because the government's idea of cutting costs is refusing to pay for what it takes.
Because the government's idea of cutting costs is refusing to pay for what it takes.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (MMC8r)
15
Doom and gloom Drew... Where's the Kittie pictures.... Enough rage stroking...
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (Bn6aD)
16
call your congress"entergenderindentityhere" their phone slaves won't tell you were they stand on any vote or position...but they will offer to send you a letter explaining what it is.....after the fact.....and you have to give up your address....so you can be put on their "list".....
Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (u8GsB)
17
You just wait until the next midterm, then we'll really show 'em.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (LA7Cm)
18
Wait till you see how the 'Republicans" "Fix" Fredocare?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 10:45 AM (rDqRv)
19
What's the problem? The underpaid docs will simply shift costs to their paying patients, and FREE HEALTHCARE stays alive.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 16, 2015 10:45 AM (MMC8r)
20
This is why I no longer believe any single solitary word about any politician (yes, pick Walker or Jindal or Brat or anyone else) about actually cutting spending in the manner that normal human beings mean, by which I mean spending less money than before.
This.
And, as I asked in the previous thread- can someone give me a reason to vote for the Republicans? Because this is one day, and they've given me two reasons not to.
This.
And, as I asked in the previous thread- can someone give me a reason to vote for the Republicans? Because this is one day, and they've given me two reasons not to.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:45 AM (M1uf/)
21
More deficits, more borrowing, more spending. Great. Party on, dude!
At this point, what difference does it make?
At this point, what difference does it make?
Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 10:45 AM (1BQGO)
Posted by: Solution to Difficult Puzzle Turns Out to Be Not All That Difficult at March 16, 2015 10:45 AM (7u7u7)
23
Every time this comes up, the doctor fix is implemented. We're just dickering over how much.
And the debt ceiling is raised.
And the chicken is molested.
Etc. etc.
And the debt ceiling is raised.
And the chicken is molested.
Etc. etc.
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 10:45 AM (A6vWB)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (kdS6q)
25
Every man's money enriches me because I am involved in your money; and therefore never send to know for whom the boner tolls; it tolls for thee. . . .
Posted by: dogfish at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (1vYi0)
26
Fleas of a thousand camels. Their crotches. Some assembly required.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 10:41 AM (2Ojst)
I don't see why the fleas should be punished like that.
Great.
Now I have Flea and his sock in my head.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 10:41 AM (2Ojst)
I don't see why the fleas should be punished like that.
Great.
Now I have Flea and his sock in my head.
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (mf5HN)
Posted by: toby928(C) at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (evdj2)
28
How very Conservatarian (tm)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (kdS6q)
Should we be calling it "Progtarian" at this point?
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (kdS6q)
Should we be calling it "Progtarian" at this point?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (M1uf/)
29
today was the start of a 7 day intention marathon.... go 24 hours without complaining.....that was over for me before it started.....sigh
Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 16, 2015 10:46 AM (u8GsB)
30
Sure, why not? As long as they get their cushy job when they leave office and their sweet gov't pension who cares what happens when we run out of money?
Posted by: Lizzy at March 16, 2015 10:47 AM (bdqzU)
31
Up, Up, And AWAY!
Posted by: The Cost Curve at March 16, 2015 10:47 AM (MMC8r)
32
*ahem*
Posted by: MATH at March 16, 2015 10:47 AM (bdqzU)
33
" Wait till you see how the 'Republicans" "Fix" Fredocare?"
Fix it good. Spend more money on it than any Democrat ever dreamed.
Show they can govern they will.
Fix it good. Spend more money on it than any Democrat ever dreamed.
Show they can govern they will.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 10:48 AM (LA7Cm)
34
You know what would totes be fun?
Taking this, and mashing it up against all the promises *not* to implement the "doc fix" because "bend the cost curve down," and ask all Reps and Senators: "What changed?"
Taking this, and mashing it up against all the promises *not* to implement the "doc fix" because "bend the cost curve down," and ask all Reps and Senators: "What changed?"
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:48 AM (M1uf/)
35
Unexpectedly
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 10:49 AM (NeFrd)
36
Show they can govern they will.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 10:48 AM (LA7Cm)
The country has rotted to its core. When "governing" means "spending money on individual welfare" the productive class is completely screwed.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 10:48 AM (LA7Cm)
The country has rotted to its core. When "governing" means "spending money on individual welfare" the productive class is completely screwed.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:49 AM (M1uf/)
37
This is why I no longer believe any single solitary word about any
politician (yes, pick Walker or Jindal or Brat or anyone else) about
actually cutting spending in the manner that normal human beings mean,
by which I mean spending less money than before.
Mass arrests. 535 of them.
No, 536. Choom Boy, too.
When you have something that is broken and cannot be repaired, you throw it into the recycling bin and move forward.
politician (yes, pick Walker or Jindal or Brat or anyone else) about
actually cutting spending in the manner that normal human beings mean,
by which I mean spending less money than before.
Mass arrests. 535 of them.
No, 536. Choom Boy, too.
When you have something that is broken and cannot be repaired, you throw it into the recycling bin and move forward.
Posted by: MrScribbler at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (P8YHq)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (M1uf/)
Posted by: The Cost Curve at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (MMC8r)
40
I hate Millenials. So more deficit spending, please. On the way out I want to hand them the keys to a house hopelessly burning out of control. Also, another World War. Future generations will thank us.
Posted by: Pest Control at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (7u7u7)
41
One of the many reasons I changed my nic.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (wlDny)
42
Raising the payout from government to Doctors will help control the cost of health care in exactly the same way government subsidized student loans have helped control the cost of university tuition.
Posted by: Bollunde Roils at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (5wdEe)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 16, 2015 10:51 AM (/kI1Q)
44
It's easier if you just think of it less as a two-party system and more as a feudal system.
Wondering which ones are the serfs?
Check the mirror.
Wondering which ones are the serfs?
Check the mirror.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 10:51 AM (/Ho8c)
45
I'm really enjoying our new overlords. It's like, they get me, you know?
Posted by: Chupacabras at March 16, 2015 10:51 AM (5npD/)
Posted by: The Cost Curve at March 16, 2015 10:51 AM (MMC8r)
47
Well, it's not like it was real money anyway - like we were going to pay it back or anything. Besides, if/when the crash comes TPTB will all be in well-feathered gated nests and doing verynicelythankyou.
Just keeping the (metaphorical) printing presses running smoothly at high speed.
Let me know when someone proposes stopping all this krap; that would be real news.
Just keeping the (metaphorical) printing presses running smoothly at high speed.
Let me know when someone proposes stopping all this krap; that would be real news.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at March 16, 2015 10:52 AM (Hk17e)
48
Dang. I had a good Putin joke, but it got Willowed. 
Posted by: Turd Ferugson at March 16, 2015 10:52 AM (VAsIq)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at March 16, 2015 10:52 AM (DT3rQ)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 10:53 AM (LA7Cm)
51
$100 Billion more in debt - toss it on the pile....
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at March 16, 2015 10:53 AM (AC0lD)
52
JayVeeCare. A Little Better Than Nothing (TM).
Posted by: JayVee.com at March 16, 2015 10:53 AM (7u7u7)
53
That leaves Biden.
Posted by: The Cost Curve at March 16, 2015 10:51 AM
It leaves a number of people who absolutely deserve to be banished to Orange-Jumpsuit-Land.
But in the case of Joltin' Joe, he would essentially be powerless when his enablers are stripped away.
Sort of like the last Japanese soldiers left on small islands in the Pacific after WWII.
Posted by: The Cost Curve at March 16, 2015 10:51 AM
It leaves a number of people who absolutely deserve to be banished to Orange-Jumpsuit-Land.
But in the case of Joltin' Joe, he would essentially be powerless when his enablers are stripped away.
Sort of like the last Japanese soldiers left on small islands in the Pacific after WWII.
Posted by: MrScribbler at March 16, 2015 10:53 AM (P8YHq)
Posted by: Chupacabras at March 16, 2015 10:54 AM (CGjum)
55
Exhibit Infinity-minus-one as to why spending at the federal government level will never. ever. ever. be cut. Ever.
Math will eventually win. But Democrats and other big-government leftists (as in, most Republicans) think that math can be repealed at will. They're wrong, but as there's no alternative to people who look at math and despair... let it burn.
Math will eventually win. But Democrats and other big-government leftists (as in, most Republicans) think that math can be repealed at will. They're wrong, but as there's no alternative to people who look at math and despair... let it burn.
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 10:54 AM (zrsn3)
56
Now if everyone in the audience will look under your seat you will find...that's right...a Medicare ID card. That's Medicare for you! And for you! And for your little brother! And for that millenial over there! And for the fat dude in the second row! And for all the Dreamers! Medicare for evvvvverrrrrryonnnnnne!!
Posted by: Winfred Oprie, a solid man at March 16, 2015 10:54 AM (NeFrd)
57
IwB
Posted by: toby928(C) at March 16, 2015 10:55 AM (evdj2)
58
Sure, why not? As long as they get their cushy job when they leave office and their sweet gov't pension who cares what happens when we run out of money?
Posted by: Lizzy
They have the EU as an example. Entire countries have hit the wall, and none of the "policy makers" suffered. We're experiencing a confluence of "too big to fail", we haven't yet gone over the cliff (physically), we're better off than others and a massive does of mortaging the future of others.
it's a testament to what a wonderful country this is/was, that our descent is taking so long, and that most of us are living so well.
Posted by: Lizzy
They have the EU as an example. Entire countries have hit the wall, and none of the "policy makers" suffered. We're experiencing a confluence of "too big to fail", we haven't yet gone over the cliff (physically), we're better off than others and a massive does of mortaging the future of others.
it's a testament to what a wonderful country this is/was, that our descent is taking so long, and that most of us are living so well.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 10:55 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 16, 2015 10:56 AM (IXrOn)
60
Senator Orrin G. Hatch, a conservative Republican, today embraced a
major Democratic effort to provide health insurance for half of the
nation's 10 million uninsured children, saying he would become the chief
sponsor of the legislation.
Hey The Hill; it is not April Fools Day yet. Are you talking about the Orin Hatch from Utah that regularly stabs conservatives in the back and had an ACU rating in 2013 (last year available) of 75?
The above shit is more damn proof of that.
He is a damn RINO squish. He doesn't even near being a conservative.
major Democratic effort to provide health insurance for half of the
nation's 10 million uninsured children, saying he would become the chief
sponsor of the legislation.
Hey The Hill; it is not April Fools Day yet. Are you talking about the Orin Hatch from Utah that regularly stabs conservatives in the back and had an ACU rating in 2013 (last year available) of 75?
The above shit is more damn proof of that.
He is a damn RINO squish. He doesn't even near being a conservative.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 16, 2015 10:57 AM (wlDny)
61
it's a testament to what a wonderful country this is/was, that our
descent is taking so long, and that most of us are living so well.
Absolutely true, but I also believe it's undeniable that given our demographics we'll be fortunate to only look as fvcked-up as the UK in, say, 15-20 years. We could end-up looking a whole lot more like Austria or Greece.
descent is taking so long, and that most of us are living so well.
Absolutely true, but I also believe it's undeniable that given our demographics we'll be fortunate to only look as fvcked-up as the UK in, say, 15-20 years. We could end-up looking a whole lot more like Austria or Greece.
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 10:57 AM (zrsn3)
62
Absolutely true, but I also believe it's undeniable that given our demographics we'll be fortunate to only look as fvcked-up as the UK in, say, 15-20 years. We could end-up looking a whole lot more like Austria or Greece.
Let's see if we can go full Zimbabwe.
Let's see if we can go full Zimbabwe.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 10:58 AM (M1uf/)
63
I hate Millenials. So more deficit spending, please. On the way out I want to hand them the keys to a house hopelessly burning out of control. Also, another World War. Future generations will thank us.
Posted by: Pest Control at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (7u7u7)
You know, that's at least an honest statement about what is actually occurring.
Posted by: Pest Control at March 16, 2015 10:50 AM (7u7u7)
You know, that's at least an honest statement about what is actually occurring.
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 10:58 AM (mf5HN)
64
BTW, GOP is releasing a balanced budget proposal tomorrow. I'm so looking forward to seeing . At last somebody is serious about ending the deficit spending.
Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 10:58 AM (1BQGO)
65
Dear Government, YOUR FIRED!!!
Posted by: Citizens of America at March 16, 2015 10:59 AM (/vbEv)
66
Betrayal is betrayal.
Look, this is how it works. You build a children's polio hospital by getting the funding, buying the property, building the executive mansion, funding the pension and the office machines for the management complex, then you run out of money and go back to the legislative branch and give a sob-story about those children currently dying from lack of iron lungs.
This sort of knowing theft should not be rewarded.
Look, this is how it works. You build a children's polio hospital by getting the funding, buying the property, building the executive mansion, funding the pension and the office machines for the management complex, then you run out of money and go back to the legislative branch and give a sob-story about those children currently dying from lack of iron lungs.
This sort of knowing theft should not be rewarded.
Posted by: Kindletot at March 16, 2015 10:59 AM (t//F+)
67
" spending at the federal government level will never. ever. ever. be cut. Ever."
No, it won't. They Can Not help themselves regardless of party.
No, it won't. They Can Not help themselves regardless of party.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 10:59 AM (LA7Cm)
68
We are so fooked.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:00 AM (/Ho8c)
69
BTW, GOP is releasing a balanced budget proposal tomorrow. I'm so
looking forward to seeing . At last somebody is serious about ending the
deficit spending. Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 10:58 AM
They'll hold the release back to April First.
Most transparent political party evah!!11!!
looking forward to seeing . At last somebody is serious about ending the
deficit spending. Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 10:58 AM
They'll hold the release back to April First.
Most transparent political party evah!!11!!
Posted by: MrScribbler at March 16, 2015 11:00 AM (P8YHq)
70
14 Because the government's idea of cutting costs is refusing to pay for what it takes.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (MMC8r)
My doctor and I talked about this last week. I told him this would be my last year with regular insurance and I would forced to go on Medicare next year. He told me he loses money every time he treats a Medicare patient. And he specializes in treating the elderly.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 16, 2015 10:44 AM (MMC8r)
My doctor and I talked about this last week. I told him this would be my last year with regular insurance and I would forced to go on Medicare next year. He told me he loses money every time he treats a Medicare patient. And he specializes in treating the elderly.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 16, 2015 11:01 AM (wlDny)
71
"We could end-up looking a whole lot more like Austria or Greece."
I'm thinking Brazil with nukes. And $30 trillion in debt.
I'm thinking Brazil with nukes. And $30 trillion in debt.
Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 11:01 AM (1BQGO)
72
Hmmm, I wonder what the White Houses motivation for removing them was?
Weasel Zippers
What Election?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 10:41 AM (rDqRv)
Just demonstrating my flexibility with my phone and my pen wingnutz!!
Presidentin' ain't so hard when you don't have to worry about re-election.
Weasel Zippers
What Election?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 10:41 AM (rDqRv)
Just demonstrating my flexibility with my phone and my pen wingnutz!!
Presidentin' ain't so hard when you don't have to worry about re-election.
Posted by: King Putt the 1st at March 16, 2015 11:01 AM (ZDJwC)
73
"Back in 2009 Obama swore they would never do another doc-fix and counted the cuts that everyone knew would never be implemented as savings to make the ObamaCare numbers work. They lied."
And the unfit-for-purpose CBO, despite the obviousness of the subterfuge, went ahead and faithfully certified Obamacare as a "net deficit reducer".
Despite the fact that Obamacare was only a deficit reducer so long as it contained the Medicare reimbursement cuts, cuts which Democrats were quite clearly going to repeal immediately after Obamacare became law.
So if the CBO can't be relied on for objective factual budget assessments, why even fund the damn thing?
And the unfit-for-purpose CBO, despite the obviousness of the subterfuge, went ahead and faithfully certified Obamacare as a "net deficit reducer".
Despite the fact that Obamacare was only a deficit reducer so long as it contained the Medicare reimbursement cuts, cuts which Democrats were quite clearly going to repeal immediately after Obamacare became law.
So if the CBO can't be relied on for objective factual budget assessments, why even fund the damn thing?
Posted by: torquewrench at March 16, 2015 11:01 AM (noWW6)
74
We could end-up looking a whole lot more like Austria or Greece.
-----
Darn it! I can't speak Austrian, folks!
-----
Darn it! I can't speak Austrian, folks!
Posted by: Pres'nt Obama at March 16, 2015 11:01 AM (VAsIq)
75
Ah, the balanced budget squirrel. I look forward to seeing how super serial they can be about their designed failure.
Posted by: Chupacabras at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (sPO/s)
76
I can't even get angry at this shit anymore. It's not like I didn't know the GOP was gonna bend me over using sandy Krazy Glue as lube. What I didn't anticipate was that they expected me to enjoy it.
Tell me again why I'm supposed to vote GOP. And make it good: I need a laugh today.
Tell me again why I'm supposed to vote GOP. And make it good: I need a laugh today.
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (MT22W)
77
This sort of knowing theft should not be rewarded.
Posted by: Kindletot
This sort of theft happens every day, here and abroad. Most US towns and cities are doing exactly this. And even the few that have failed did not result in those responsible losing a penny.
States are doing it. So, why not the US Congress? If local leaders can game the system and kick the can, the Federal government is that much easier, since it's far more convoluted, far larger.
Posted by: Kindletot
This sort of theft happens every day, here and abroad. Most US towns and cities are doing exactly this. And even the few that have failed did not result in those responsible losing a penny.
States are doing it. So, why not the US Congress? If local leaders can game the system and kick the can, the Federal government is that much easier, since it's far more convoluted, far larger.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (Spluw)
78
Darn it! I can't speak Austrian, folks!
Posted by: Pres'nt Obama
'Sokay. Spanish will be the language of the nation by then, bro.
Posted by: Pres'nt Obama
'Sokay. Spanish will be the language of the nation by then, bro.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (/Ho8c)
79
So if the CBO can't be relied on for objective factual budget assessments, why even fund the damn thing?
Posted by: torquewrench
----
This is the Conservative Case for Everything: If _____ can't be relied on for (the program's stated purpose), why does it exist?
Posted by: torquewrench
----
This is the Conservative Case for Everything: If _____ can't be relied on for (the program's stated purpose), why does it exist?
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at March 16, 2015 11:03 AM (VAsIq)
80
"I'm thinking Brazil with nukes. And $30 trillion in debt."
If you take a look at what's happening to the nation's rapidly decaying nuclear weapons complex, it's pretty clear that America's future is Brazil *without* nukes.
Except that Brazil doesn't have sworn enemies with nukes, and we do.
If you take a look at what's happening to the nation's rapidly decaying nuclear weapons complex, it's pretty clear that America's future is Brazil *without* nukes.
Except that Brazil doesn't have sworn enemies with nukes, and we do.
Posted by: torquewrench at March 16, 2015 11:03 AM (noWW6)
81
'Sokay. Spanish will be the language of the nation by then, bro.
Posted by: Moderate Salami
----
Darn it! I don't speak that, either. Anyone here speak forked tongue?
Posted by: Moderate Salami
----
Darn it! I don't speak that, either. Anyone here speak forked tongue?
Posted by: Pres'nt Obama at March 16, 2015 11:03 AM (VAsIq)
82
Any word on BHO's bracket picks yet. I'm eagerly awaiting...
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:03 AM (NeFrd)
83
'Sokay. Spanish Espanol will be the language of the nation by then, bro hermano.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (/Ho8c)
FIFY, Senior.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (/Ho8c)
FIFY, Senior.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM (M1uf/)
84
We're just inflating our debt away, it's not like we'll ever really going to run out of money. It may be worthless money, but we'll have plenty of it!
Posted by: Chupacabras at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM (sPO/s)
85
'Sokay. Spanish will be the language of the nation by then, bro.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (/Ho8c)
Good thing I speak Spanish! Happy Cinco de Quatro everyone!!
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (/Ho8c)
Good thing I speak Spanish! Happy Cinco de Quatro everyone!!
Posted by: King Putt the 1st at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM (ZDJwC)
86
BTW, GOP is releasing a balanced budget proposal tomorrow. I'm so
looking forward to seeing . At last somebody is serious about ending the
deficit spending. Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 10:58 AM
They'll hold the release back to April First.
---
Seems legit
looking forward to seeing . At last somebody is serious about ending the
deficit spending. Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 10:58 AM
They'll hold the release back to April First.
---
Seems legit
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM (A6vWB)
87
Tell me again why I'm supposed to vote GOP. And make it good: I need a laugh today.
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (MT22W)
the NUMBERS!!!! we need the NUMBERS!!! once we have the NUMBERS....then they will be able to reverse everything!!!!
omg....never again.
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (MT22W)
the NUMBERS!!!! we need the NUMBERS!!! once we have the NUMBERS....then they will be able to reverse everything!!!!
omg....never again.
Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM (u8GsB)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (LA7Cm)
89
What we need is a slight change to the CPI to adjust spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid etc...And increase project GDP growth by about 1% per year. That should balance the budget by 2050.
Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (1BQGO)
90
We'll just print a couple of $20 trillion coins and pay off our debt. It's like magic, except that it's real.
Posted by: Paul Krugman at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (MT22W)
91
Tell me again why I'm supposed to vote GOP. And make it good: I need a laugh today.
Posted by: physics geek
-----
If you don't we'll shoot this dog.
Posted by: physics geek
-----
If you don't we'll shoot this dog.
Posted by: National Lampoon at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (VAsIq)
Posted by: phoenixgirl GOP fuck you & your "numbers" at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (u8GsB)
93
" spending at the federal government level will never. ever. ever. be cut. Ever."
USdebtclock is currently at $18.154 Trillion and chugging away.
Math is a heartless bitch. This will be forced to stop, one way or another.
Government spending may keep going up and eventually reach $100 Trillion a year, but that won't be much when a cup of coffee will cost you $5000.
USdebtclock is currently at $18.154 Trillion and chugging away.
Math is a heartless bitch. This will be forced to stop, one way or another.
Government spending may keep going up and eventually reach $100 Trillion a year, but that won't be much when a cup of coffee will cost you $5000.
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (AC0lD)
94
Weimar dollars.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (LA7Cm)
I would take Weimar over Zimbabwe, I think.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (LA7Cm)
I would take Weimar over Zimbabwe, I think.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (M1uf/)
95
the NUMBERS!!!! we need the NUMBERS!!! once we have the NUMBERS....then they will be able to reverse everything!!!!
omg....never again.
Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM (u8GsB)
I've got numbers for the GOP. How many middle fingers am I holding up right now?
omg....never again.
Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM (u8GsB)
I've got numbers for the GOP. How many middle fingers am I holding up right now?
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (MT22W)
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (NeFrd)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (LA7Cm)
98
I think they should add another $3 trillion in spending, and cut everyone in the country a check for ten grand. It's only money, and obviously it will have no impact whatsoever on the economy, other than driving up demand.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (2ePOO)
99
It may be worthless money, but we'll have plenty of it! Posted by: Chupacabras at March 16, 2015 11:04 AM
^^^ This ^^^
Somehow, the money we need a bushel basket of to buy a loaf of bread will be enough to keep Choom Boy and Moooooo-chelle livin' it up in high style.
^^^ This ^^^
Somehow, the money we need a bushel basket of to buy a loaf of bread will be enough to keep Choom Boy and Moooooo-chelle livin' it up in high style.
Posted by: MrScribbler at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (P8YHq)
100
Tell me again why I'm supposed to vote GOP. And make it good: I need a laugh today.
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (MT22W)
Hey, we only control 2 halves of one third of the Federal Government. What the hell do you expect from us?
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:02 AM (MT22W)
Hey, we only control 2 halves of one third of the Federal Government. What the hell do you expect from us?
Posted by: Orange Boner & Bitch McConnell at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (ZDJwC)
101
"It may be worthless money, but we'll have plenty of it!"
We had a few words to say on that subject.
We had a few words to say on that subject.
Posted by: The Gods Of The Copybook Headings at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (noWW6)
102
" So if the CBO can't be relied on for objective factual budget assessments, why even fund the damn thing? "
That would be the Congressional Budget Office, an arm of the Democrat Party created to provide an alternative interpretation of budget policy from that of the Office of Management and Budget, an executive branch agency. Two federal agencies to interpret budget policy for political reasons.
That would be the Congressional Budget Office, an arm of the Democrat Party created to provide an alternative interpretation of budget policy from that of the Office of Management and Budget, an executive branch agency. Two federal agencies to interpret budget policy for political reasons.
Posted by: Bollunde Roils at March 16, 2015 11:07 AM (5wdEe)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:07 AM (M1uf/)
104
Blue Hen makes some crucial points.
A system can "cannibalize" its productive sector for a long, long time. It's not always a question of radical change with instant effects, of 1930s Soviet collectivization where the economy collapses in a few years.
So no, "math" does not win, at least in the immediate, decisive sense most here mean when they use that phrase.
The inertia of our wealth and dynamism, wedded to the collapse of rule of law and standards, means a long, slow, "sustainable" ruination is quite possible. Cans are kicked down the road, rules/laws are discarded or "reinterpreted" (same thing), state sector grows, freedom shrinks - but it can go on indefinitely so long as a few horses are left unmolested to pull the wagon.
A system can "cannibalize" its productive sector for a long, long time. It's not always a question of radical change with instant effects, of 1930s Soviet collectivization where the economy collapses in a few years.
So no, "math" does not win, at least in the immediate, decisive sense most here mean when they use that phrase.
The inertia of our wealth and dynamism, wedded to the collapse of rule of law and standards, means a long, slow, "sustainable" ruination is quite possible. Cans are kicked down the road, rules/laws are discarded or "reinterpreted" (same thing), state sector grows, freedom shrinks - but it can go on indefinitely so long as a few horses are left unmolested to pull the wagon.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:07 AM (afQnV)
105
If you don't we'll shoot this dog.
Posted by: National Lampoon at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (VAsIq)
Well, I buried him last year, so go ahead. Be forewarned that I won't take kindly to someone mishandling the mouldering corpse of my former best friend. On the other hand, there's plenty of room on the hill next to where he's buried, so have at it.
Posted by: National Lampoon at March 16, 2015 11:05 AM (VAsIq)
Well, I buried him last year, so go ahead. Be forewarned that I won't take kindly to someone mishandling the mouldering corpse of my former best friend. On the other hand, there's plenty of room on the hill next to where he's buried, so have at it.
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:07 AM (MT22W)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:07 AM (LA7Cm)
107
My Twitter timeline went full-retard over Ted Cruz this morning.
The Left tried to push that over the weekend w/o much success, then first thing this morning someone on the Right started in on Cruz. SMDH at that.
It's almost reassuring that the punditry on "our side" can manage to reach new lows.
The Left tried to push that over the weekend w/o much success, then first thing this morning someone on the Right started in on Cruz. SMDH at that.
It's almost reassuring that the punditry on "our side" can manage to reach new lows.
Posted by: Y-not at March 16, 2015 11:08 AM (9BRsg)
108
That thing I did in your mouth 17 previous times? Guess what, baby?
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 16, 2015 11:08 AM (JO9+V)
109
[BOTH]
Money makes the world go around
The world go around
The world go around
Money makes the world go around
It makes the world go 'round.
[SALLY & EMCEE (In canon)
A mark, a yen, a buck, or a pound
A buck or a pound
A buck or a pound
Is all that makes the world go around,
That clinking clanking sound
Can make the world go 'round.
[BOTH]
Money money money money money money
Money money money money money money
Money money money money money money
Money makes the world go around
The world go around
The world go around
Money makes the world go around
It makes the world go 'round.
[SALLY & EMCEE (In canon)
A mark, a yen, a buck, or a pound
A buck or a pound
A buck or a pound
Is all that makes the world go around,
That clinking clanking sound
Can make the world go 'round.
[BOTH]
Money money money money money money
Money money money money money money
Money money money money money money
Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 16, 2015 11:08 AM (tNWyJ)
110
The sun will rise tomorrow and, just as certainly, someone on the Right will take a gratuitous shot at Ted Cruz.
Posted by: Y-not at March 16, 2015 11:08 AM (9BRsg)
111
but it can go on indefinitely so long as a few horses are left unmolested to pull the wagon.
Posted by: rhomboid
See: Empire, Roman.
Posted by: rhomboid
See: Empire, Roman.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:09 AM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: GOPe at March 16, 2015 11:09 AM (MT22W)
113
You won't need a wheelbarrow to carry the money needed to buy a loaf of bread, just use Apple Pay!
Hide the decline!
Hide the decline!
Posted by: Chupacabras at March 16, 2015 11:09 AM (sPO/s)
114
And how ironic that I got my latest "we noticed that your membership has lapsed" notice from the RNCe on Friday (sharp guys, my membership lapsed in early-2011). Gave me yet another opportunity to tell them every reason why I will never, ever again send a dime to, or vote for, the RNC/GOPe/etc.
Yeah, I know nobody of consequence will ever read it. But it was cathartic and made me feel better.
Yeah, I know nobody of consequence will ever read it. But it was cathartic and made me feel better.
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:09 AM (zrsn3)
115
The sun will rise tomorrow and, just as certainly, someone on the Right will take a gratuitous shot at Ted Cruz.
Posted by: Y-not
----
Ahh, yes. The old Cruz Missile.
Posted by: Y-not
----
Ahh, yes. The old Cruz Missile.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at March 16, 2015 11:10 AM (VAsIq)
116
Hey, we only control 2 halves of one third of the Federal Government. What the hell do you expect from us?
And yet this never, ever seems to stop the Democrats (last evidence, 2007-2009).
And yet this never, ever seems to stop the Democrats (last evidence, 2007-2009).
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:11 AM (zrsn3)
117
Hide the decline!
Posted by: Chupacabras
Just like EBT cards, online unemployment office "lines", and all the other myriad ways this depression is camouflaged.
Posted by: Chupacabras
Just like EBT cards, online unemployment office "lines", and all the other myriad ways this depression is camouflaged.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:11 AM (/Ho8c)
118
Just in case ppl had forgotten how nutty libertarians are, Marginal Revolution proudly shows how nutty they are.
Marginal Revolution: The Open Borders Manifesto http://shar.es/1fJGbn
In honor of March 16, Open Borders Day, here is the Open Borders Manifesto to which I am a signatory.
--
Freedom of movement is a basic liberty that governments should respect and protect unless justified by extenuating circumstances. This extends to movement across international boundaries.
International law and many domestic laws already recognise the right of any individual to leave his or her country. This right may only be circumscribed in extreme circumstances, where threats to public safety or order are imminent.
...
The border enforcement status quo is both morally unconscionable and economically destructive. Border controls predominantly restrict the movement of people who bear no ill intentions. Most of the people legally-barred from moving across international borders today are fleeing persecution or poverty, desire a better job or home, or simply want to see the city lights.
...
We seek legal and policy reforms that will reduce and eventually remove these bars to movement for billions of ordinary people around the world. The economic toll of the modern restrictive border regime is vast, the human toll incalculable. To end this, we do not need a philosopher’s utopia or a world government. As citizens and human beings, we only demand accountability from our own governments for the senseless immigration laws that they enact in our name. Border controls should be minimised to only the extent required to protect public health and security. International borders should be open for all to cross, in both directions. - See more at:
marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/03/65343.html#sthash.l72O6cjf.dpuf
Marginal Revolution: The Open Borders Manifesto http://shar.es/1fJGbn
In honor of March 16, Open Borders Day, here is the Open Borders Manifesto to which I am a signatory.
--
Freedom of movement is a basic liberty that governments should respect and protect unless justified by extenuating circumstances. This extends to movement across international boundaries.
International law and many domestic laws already recognise the right of any individual to leave his or her country. This right may only be circumscribed in extreme circumstances, where threats to public safety or order are imminent.
...
The border enforcement status quo is both morally unconscionable and economically destructive. Border controls predominantly restrict the movement of people who bear no ill intentions. Most of the people legally-barred from moving across international borders today are fleeing persecution or poverty, desire a better job or home, or simply want to see the city lights.
...
We seek legal and policy reforms that will reduce and eventually remove these bars to movement for billions of ordinary people around the world. The economic toll of the modern restrictive border regime is vast, the human toll incalculable. To end this, we do not need a philosopher’s utopia or a world government. As citizens and human beings, we only demand accountability from our own governments for the senseless immigration laws that they enact in our name. Border controls should be minimised to only the extent required to protect public health and security. International borders should be open for all to cross, in both directions. - See more at:
marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/03/65343.html#sthash.l72O6cjf.dpuf
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:11 AM (ZPrif)
119
Well, stay reasonably sober today, tomorrow is the only day people will put up with the Irish.
That, free green beer and hot gingers.
That, free green beer and hot gingers.
Posted by: Nip Sip at March 16, 2015 11:11 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Buzzsaw at March 16, 2015 11:12 AM (tf9Ne)
121
I applaud this effort by the GOP to act like grownups with regards to fiscal policy.
Posted by: David Brooks at March 16, 2015 11:12 AM (MT22W)
122
So no, "math" does not win, at least in the immediate, decisive sense most here mean when they use that phrase.
Never said it was immediate. Only inevitable.
But given that we're likely the last economy to circle the drain I expect that once it unravels it will happen at about Warp 9.
Never said it was immediate. Only inevitable.
But given that we're likely the last economy to circle the drain I expect that once it unravels it will happen at about Warp 9.
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:13 AM (zrsn3)
123
See, when Democrats lose they comeback for incremental gains later. When the GOP wins, they comeback for incremental Democratic gains later.
Neat, huh?
To paraphrase Samuel Johnson, Congress is a race of thieves and rogues who should be grateful for any liberty we grant them short of hanging.
Neat, huh?
To paraphrase Samuel Johnson, Congress is a race of thieves and rogues who should be grateful for any liberty we grant them short of hanging.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 16, 2015 11:13 AM (zF6Iw)
124
Borders be racist, y'all!
Marginal Revolution @MargRev · 4h 4 hours ago
The Open Borders Manifesto: In honor of March 16, Open Borders Day, here is the Open Borders Manifesto ... http://bit.ly/1AMe5QG
Marginal Revolution @MargRev · 4h 4 hours ago
The Open Borders Manifesto: In honor of March 16, Open Borders Day, here is the Open Borders Manifesto ... http://bit.ly/1AMe5QG
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:13 AM (ZPrif)
125
As citizens and human beings, we only demand accountability from our own governments for the senseless immigration laws that they enact in our name. Border controls should be minimised to only the extent required to protect public health and security. International borders should be open for all to cross, in both directions.
Wow. Can't wait to see this turgid POS being handed to Putin, anyone in latin America, yadda yada.
mazeltov.
Wow. Can't wait to see this turgid POS being handed to Putin, anyone in latin America, yadda yada.
mazeltov.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:14 AM (Spluw)
126
Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine and Doc Fix
Posted by: Roy at March 16, 2015 11:14 AM (VndSC)
127
Our economy won't go down the drain, we'll plug it with cheap, imported, slave labor!
Posted by: Chupacabras at March 16, 2015 11:14 AM (l2max)
128
And yet this never, ever seems to stop the Democrats (last evidence, 2007-2009 Today).
Fixed for accuracy.
Fixed for accuracy.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:14 AM (M1uf/)
129
Posted by: Costanza Defense
----
Wow. There was so much stupid in so few words. I just---I don't even know where to start with something like that. Is that the plan? Just spout so many lies and hope the other guy's head is spinning too much?
----
Wow. There was so much stupid in so few words. I just---I don't even know where to start with something like that. Is that the plan? Just spout so many lies and hope the other guy's head is spinning too much?
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at March 16, 2015 11:14 AM (VAsIq)
130
I've got numbers for the GOP. How many middle fingers am I holding up right now?
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (MT22W)
Do you have polydactyly?
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:06 AM (MT22W)
Do you have polydactyly?
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 11:14 AM (2Ojst)
131
Ah, the Open Borders fallacy.
You know, eliminate every trace of every form of welfare (corporate, individual, etc.) at the Fed.Gov level and I'd be willing to discuss the concept. Otherwise, any discussion of Open Borders is simply a matter of how quickly we want the system to become unsustainable.
You know, eliminate every trace of every form of welfare (corporate, individual, etc.) at the Fed.Gov level and I'd be willing to discuss the concept. Otherwise, any discussion of Open Borders is simply a matter of how quickly we want the system to become unsustainable.
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:15 AM (zrsn3)
132
I take back every positive thing I ever said about Boehner and the GOP.
The only thing I have left I guess is despair. What. A. Disaster.
The only thing I have left I guess is despair. What. A. Disaster.
Posted by: MTF at March 16, 2015 11:15 AM (LISuA)
133
Sure, this 200 billion may seem to be a waste, along with hundreds of billions wasted in other programs.
But everyone should be happy because we're not spending the 2 billion it would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
Just because pay and perks motivate people in the private sector is no reason to believe it would work for elected officials.
But everyone should be happy because we're not spending the 2 billion it would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
Just because pay and perks motivate people in the private sector is no reason to believe it would work for elected officials.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:15 AM (9ZZd+)
134
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:11 AM (ZPrif)
A drug-fueled listening session of John Lennon's "Imagine" is not a sound basis of national border policy.
A drug-fueled listening session of John Lennon's "Imagine" is not a sound basis of national border policy.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 11:16 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (CMkNk)
136
Most of the things taught as virtues will become weaknesses in the generations to come.
Shit ScoggDog Said, Volume I
Shit ScoggDog Said, Volume I
Posted by: ScoggDog at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (W3hdj)
137
Fvck these assholes.
Seriously.
In more humorous news, the NCAA decided to put the Dayton Flyers in one of the basketball "First Four" play-in games.
To be held at............ the University of Dayton.
The ONLY thing they DID mange to do right, was to have them play on Wednesday night.
Otherwise, they'd be playing on Tuesday night. St. Paddy's Day. When they'd all be REALLY liquored up.
Not that they won't be somewhat liquored up Wednesday night...
Seriously.
In more humorous news, the NCAA decided to put the Dayton Flyers in one of the basketball "First Four" play-in games.
To be held at............ the University of Dayton.
The ONLY thing they DID mange to do right, was to have them play on Wednesday night.
Otherwise, they'd be playing on Tuesday night. St. Paddy's Day. When they'd all be REALLY liquored up.
Not that they won't be somewhat liquored up Wednesday night...
Posted by: Tex Lovera at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (wtvvX)
138
I see that alex has gone rage twitchy again. She is, of course, correct to do so, but I think it's long past time to prepare for the inevitable collapse which, sadly, looks to be coming even sooner than my pessimistic predictions.
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (MT22W)
139
Someone remind me why a third party is a lousy idea.
Because we need a second party first. But yeah, your point is valid.
Because we need a second party first. But yeah, your point is valid.
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (zrsn3)
140
135
Someone remind me why a third party is a lousy idea.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (CMkNk)
Are you kidding? It took me weeks to clean out the liquor bottles and dead hookers from the second party!
Someone remind me why a third party is a lousy idea.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (CMkNk)
Are you kidding? It took me weeks to clean out the liquor bottles and dead hookers from the second party!
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (2Ojst)
141
Greetings postal customer. Your government subsidized anal stretcher will be arriving shortly, courtesy of the 114th Congress and Medicare.
Posted by: Your Friendly Neighborhood Postal Carrier at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (UzPAd)
142
"Someone remind me why a third party is a lousy idea. "
Because then the Democrats would be in control an get everything they wanted........oh, wait.
Because then the Democrats would be in control an get everything they wanted........oh, wait.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:18 AM (LA7Cm)
143
Otherwise, any discussion of Open Borders is simply a matter of how quickly we want the system to become unsustainable.
Uuhhh, it already is....
Uuhhh, it already is....
Posted by: Tex Lovera at March 16, 2015 11:18 AM (wtvvX)
144
But everyone should be happy because we're not spending the 2 billion it
would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen
and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
So what this town needs is a better quality of criminal, and you're gonna give it to us, eh?
would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen
and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
So what this town needs is a better quality of criminal, and you're gonna give it to us, eh?
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:18 AM (zrsn3)
145
>>You know, eliminate every trace of every form of welfare (corporate,
individual, etc.) at the Fed.Gov level and I'd be willing to discuss the
concept. Otherwise, any discussion of Open Borders is simply a matter
of how quickly we want the system to become unsustainable.
We have some ideas on that...
individual, etc.) at the Fed.Gov level and I'd be willing to discuss the
concept. Otherwise, any discussion of Open Borders is simply a matter
of how quickly we want the system to become unsustainable.
We have some ideas on that...
Posted by: Cloward - Piven at March 16, 2015 11:18 AM (bdqzU)
146
Someone remind me why a third party is a lousy idea.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
------
It's a wonderful idea!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
------
It's a wonderful idea!
Posted by: Pander Bear Candidate at March 16, 2015 11:19 AM (VAsIq)
147
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:15 AM (zrsn3)
Exactly.
Libertarian ideas about supply and demand of labor make sense in theory, but when confronted head on with the welfare state and free social services, and a populace not too willing to defend its culture, form of government, or constitution... well, you kind of run in to some major road blocks there.
Exactly.
Libertarian ideas about supply and demand of labor make sense in theory, but when confronted head on with the welfare state and free social services, and a populace not too willing to defend its culture, form of government, or constitution... well, you kind of run in to some major road blocks there.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:19 AM (AkOaV)
148
Welfare state or no welfare state, having an open borders policy is a fucking horrible idea from a national security and public health perspective, for starters.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 11:19 AM (2Ojst)
149
Uuhhh, it already is....
Of course. Just don't tell any LIV because they'll accuse you of The Crazy.
Of course. Just don't tell any LIV because they'll accuse you of The Crazy.
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:20 AM (zrsn3)
150
Someone remind me why a third party is a lousy idea.
It's not likely to be successful in our current system.
The most likely short term outcome would be the exact opposite of our intended goal (win). Example: perot running didn't move us to the right; it handed Bubba the victory.
If our goal is to kill off the GOP, then if it were to be done, it would best be done quickly. But we need to prevent the co-opting/contamination that hit the tea parties.
It's not likely to be successful in our current system.
The most likely short term outcome would be the exact opposite of our intended goal (win). Example: perot running didn't move us to the right; it handed Bubba the victory.
If our goal is to kill off the GOP, then if it were to be done, it would best be done quickly. But we need to prevent the co-opting/contamination that hit the tea parties.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:20 AM (Spluw)
151
Someone remind me why a third party is a lousy idea.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (CMkNk)
Because you'll give control of the government to the Democrats, remember? When you vote GOPe, you allow the Democrats to participate in setting policy.
And if you don't understand the distinction between "give" and "allow," you're just a teabagging wingnut.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (CMkNk)
Because you'll give control of the government to the Democrats, remember? When you vote GOPe, you allow the Democrats to participate in setting policy.
And if you don't understand the distinction between "give" and "allow," you're just a teabagging wingnut.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 16, 2015 11:20 AM (zF6Iw)
152
But everyone should be happy because we're not spending the 2 billion it
would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen
and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
Wrong sort of motivation. What we need from the constitutional convention is to pass a resolution that one randomly selected member of congress be hung in front of the capital steps every day until a balanced budget is passed.
would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen
and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
Wrong sort of motivation. What we need from the constitutional convention is to pass a resolution that one randomly selected member of congress be hung in front of the capital steps every day until a balanced budget is passed.
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 11:20 AM (A6vWB)
153
But everyone should be happy because we're not spending the 2 billion it would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
Just because pay and perks motivate people in the private sector is no reason to believe it would work for elected officials.
--
Jwest, any member of congress would laugh at your suggestion. They are each making ten times that amount in bribes today. Each member of congress spends an average of $2 million per cycle defending their seat, and a senator spends five times that. You can't seriously think that these campaign spending amounts put a serious dent in their income earned under the table.
But everyone should be happy because we're not spending the 2 billion it would take to pay 500K bonuses and provide private jets to congressmen and senators for balancing the budget under 19% of GDP.
Just because pay and perks motivate people in the private sector is no reason to believe it would work for elected officials.
--
Jwest, any member of congress would laugh at your suggestion. They are each making ten times that amount in bribes today. Each member of congress spends an average of $2 million per cycle defending their seat, and a senator spends five times that. You can't seriously think that these campaign spending amounts put a serious dent in their income earned under the table.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:21 AM (2ePOO)
154
Regarding Michael Douglas kid - man up, snowflake! If this is the first time in his life that anyone has been rude to him, he is living a dangerously over protective life.
Regarding Michael Douglas kid - man up, snowflake! If this is the first time in his life that anyone has been rude to him, he is living a dangerously over protective life.
Posted by: Bruce J. at March 16, 2015 11:21 AM (iQIUe)
155
What we need from the constitutional convention is to pass a resolution that one randomly selected member of congress be hung
Well they did do a successful penis transplant in Johannesburg recently...
Well they did do a successful penis transplant in Johannesburg recently...
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 11:21 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 11:21 AM (A6vWB)
157
In order to keep waiting times on queue within federally mandated standards we are not currently accepting new people in line. If you would like to apply for a place in a future line please fill out form HHS445-3 in triplicate and submit it to the Office of Line Administration. Please be advised that there is currently a shortage of HHS445-3 forms. If you would like to wait in line for a form HHS445-3 please be advised that in order to keep waiting times within federally mandated standards we are not currently accepting new people in line...
I think you can see where this is heading.
I think you can see where this is heading.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:21 AM (NeFrd)
158
Welfare state or no welfare state, having an open borders policy is a
fucking horrible idea from a national security and public health
perspective, for starters.
Seen it work first-had on small scales (see, Singapore). How well it scales to something the size of the USA is a discussion that could be had at some point, maybe. But as we're never going to meet even the most basic table-stakes for such a discussion it's best to leave it to the Libertarian "Purists".
fucking horrible idea from a national security and public health
perspective, for starters.
Seen it work first-had on small scales (see, Singapore). How well it scales to something the size of the USA is a discussion that could be had at some point, maybe. But as we're never going to meet even the most basic table-stakes for such a discussion it's best to leave it to the Libertarian "Purists".
Posted by: DocJ at March 16, 2015 11:22 AM (zrsn3)
159
That Open Borders piece is endorsed by Alex Tabarrok a libertarian econ professor at George Mason. Blogs for Marginal Revolution.
The libertarians are at least honest. Insane and stupid, but honest.
The libertarians are at least honest. Insane and stupid, but honest.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:22 AM (ZPrif)
160
I think you can see where this is heading.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:21 AM (NeFrd)
Quite.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:21 AM (NeFrd)
Quite.
Posted by: Sam Lowry at March 16, 2015 11:23 AM (2Ojst)
161
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:17 AM (CMkNk)
Not that it's a lousy idea, but it would take an incredible amount of money, organization, lawyers, political know how, etc to get a third part on the ballot in most states. Not to mention finding candidates, airing commercials, etc.
The establishments of both parties set this system up in the first progressive era to make it damned near impossible for a party to come along and challenge the two party system. Neither Rs nor Ds wanted to get the same treatment as the whigs.
And, if someone were to somehow pull all of that off, run real candidates, and win elections, the R establishment would co-opt the new third party in short order due to their money, political connections, etc. etc.
See: Party, TEA circa 2011.
Not that it's a lousy idea, but it would take an incredible amount of money, organization, lawyers, political know how, etc to get a third part on the ballot in most states. Not to mention finding candidates, airing commercials, etc.
The establishments of both parties set this system up in the first progressive era to make it damned near impossible for a party to come along and challenge the two party system. Neither Rs nor Ds wanted to get the same treatment as the whigs.
And, if someone were to somehow pull all of that off, run real candidates, and win elections, the R establishment would co-opt the new third party in short order due to their money, political connections, etc. etc.
See: Party, TEA circa 2011.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:23 AM (AkOaV)
162
I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation for all this that someone can drop in and provide. We used to have no shortage of (rather, no completely, unsophisticated and shallow) apologias and naive explanations for any move/non-move by the GOP.
Wondering (seriously) if the almost humorous collapse of the GOP as any sort of alternative or opposition force since their latest huge electoral victory has finally made the apologias too much even for the tribalists?
Wondering (seriously) if the almost humorous collapse of the GOP as any sort of alternative or opposition force since their latest huge electoral victory has finally made the apologias too much even for the tribalists?
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:24 AM (afQnV)
163
but it can go on indefinitely so long as a few horses are left unmolested to pull the wagon.
Posted by: rhomboid
Productive people leave.
The cost to renounce US citizenship has risen twice under President Dumbass. It was $0 under President Bush, moved up to $450 around 2010, and recently moved up to $2350 to "cover all of the expenses with processing the paperwork."
The government tracks the high worth individuals that leave in a quarterly report, but I don't think they reveal the numbers for everyone. And in addition to those people that voluntarily leave following the rules, there's multitudes more that simply go back to their country of origin and choose to drop off the government radar.
In addition to productive people leaving, how much is being lost by the productive people no longer showing up.
The US used to draw all types of medical people from Canada - doctors, nurses - and it still does. But it draws a lot less than it used to.
But as America openly welcomes with open arms every parasite that can crawl across a border looking for free shit, how many other people, eager to start businesses and new lives, do some research on the internet and find friendlier business climates outside of America and Europe.
Productive people will HAPPILY give back much more to a society where a government leaves them alone, lets them run their business and lets them keep most of their profits. But when your government is corrupt, just taking more and more to give away free shit to hold onto power, they leave.
Posted by: rhomboid
Productive people leave.
The cost to renounce US citizenship has risen twice under President Dumbass. It was $0 under President Bush, moved up to $450 around 2010, and recently moved up to $2350 to "cover all of the expenses with processing the paperwork."
The government tracks the high worth individuals that leave in a quarterly report, but I don't think they reveal the numbers for everyone. And in addition to those people that voluntarily leave following the rules, there's multitudes more that simply go back to their country of origin and choose to drop off the government radar.
In addition to productive people leaving, how much is being lost by the productive people no longer showing up.
The US used to draw all types of medical people from Canada - doctors, nurses - and it still does. But it draws a lot less than it used to.
But as America openly welcomes with open arms every parasite that can crawl across a border looking for free shit, how many other people, eager to start businesses and new lives, do some research on the internet and find friendlier business climates outside of America and Europe.
Productive people will HAPPILY give back much more to a society where a government leaves them alone, lets them run their business and lets them keep most of their profits. But when your government is corrupt, just taking more and more to give away free shit to hold onto power, they leave.
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at March 16, 2015 11:24 AM (AC0lD)
164
22
Walker / Rubio 2016
Posted by: Solution to Difficult Puzzle Turns Out to Be Not All That Difficult
Right. Because when I want a conservative who will stick to conservative principles once elected, and not stab me in the back, Rubio is the first name that comes to mind.
Walker / Rubio 2016
Posted by: Solution to Difficult Puzzle Turns Out to Be Not All That Difficult
Right. Because when I want a conservative who will stick to conservative principles once elected, and not stab me in the back, Rubio is the first name that comes to mind.
Posted by: pep at March 16, 2015 11:24 AM (YXmuI)
165
Never said it was immediate. Only inevitable.
But given that we're likely the last economy to circle the drain I expect that once it unravels it will happen at about Warp 9.
Greece can go TU because Germany.
What happens when no one backstops us?
Doom.
All. The. Way. Down.
But given that we're likely the last economy to circle the drain I expect that once it unravels it will happen at about Warp 9.
Greece can go TU because Germany.
What happens when no one backstops us?
Doom.
All. The. Way. Down.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 16, 2015 11:24 AM (DxXMy)
166
Let's see, since then GOP took control of both chambers we've seen Wall Street kickbacks, the controversializing of an uncontroversial abortion amendment, GOP leaders capitulating to unconstitutional executive actions, conservatives being marginalized and frozen out and basically the handing over of power to the minority party and now increasing spending and the deficit.
The federal empire is out of our control no matter the letter next to the name.
The federal empire is out of our control no matter the letter next to the name.
Posted by: Kreplach at March 16, 2015 11:24 AM (7sYcg)
167
Tar. Feathers. Some assembly required...
Posted by: Ibin Pharteen at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (zL/eJ)
168
One good thing happened today.
A new recoil spring that I ordered was just delivered.
Over an inch difference in length between the 70 year old original spring, and the new one.
Let's see if that alters the FTF numbers.
A new recoil spring that I ordered was just delivered.
Over an inch difference in length between the 70 year old original spring, and the new one.
Let's see if that alters the FTF numbers.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (j3OmN)
169
Well, he's only one of the most powerful political figures in America - former Senator, VP, Prez candidate. He's also one of the richest men in the world now, thx to his eco-scams and being handed free shares in tons of silicon valley IPOs (It's good to be the King!).
So one of the richest, most powerful men wants to destroy you if you won't believe in his religion.
DRUDGE REPORT @DRUDGE_REPORT 2m2 minutes ago
Gore unleashes: We Need to 'punish climate change deniers'... http://drudge.tw/1FqhkmV
So one of the richest, most powerful men wants to destroy you if you won't believe in his religion.
DRUDGE REPORT @DRUDGE_REPORT 2m2 minutes ago
Gore unleashes: We Need to 'punish climate change deniers'... http://drudge.tw/1FqhkmV
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (mf5HN)
171
#16 My sentiments exactly! I get so frustrated asking what my supposed representative's stand is on something-anything- and I get the run around that mostly they aren't telling. Do I not have a right to know my reps stand on an issue I ask? I'll tell Mr. So and so you made a comment is all I get back. In McConnell's case, he has no one answer the phone! You want to speak with him--send an email! What representation we have! Throw them all out. Start over.
Posted by: AnnaS at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (P+I7L)
172
Who's manspreadin' the blog?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (j3OmN)
173
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:22 AM (ZPrif)
Like I said upthread, if it weren't for welfare, free social services, and a populace not too attached to the idea of a government constrained by a constitution, the free market flow of labor would be a compelling argument.
Unfortunately, government distorts the labor market so much that what the libertarians are pushing for would essentially just collapse the US economy. Oh well. Sounds good on paper.
Like I said upthread, if it weren't for welfare, free social services, and a populace not too attached to the idea of a government constrained by a constitution, the free market flow of labor would be a compelling argument.
Unfortunately, government distorts the labor market so much that what the libertarians are pushing for would essentially just collapse the US economy. Oh well. Sounds good on paper.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:26 AM (AkOaV)
174
The libertarian revolution would last about a month before the teeming socialist hordes moved in.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:27 AM (ZPrif)
175
Here.
Have an awesome sculpture.
http://bit.ly/18xu9z7
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (mf5HN)
*shoves chocolate fudge cheesecake through USB port*
Have an awesome sculpture.
http://bit.ly/18xu9z7
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 11:25 AM (mf5HN)
*shoves chocolate fudge cheesecake through USB port*
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:27 AM (MT22W)
176
The establishments of both parties set this system up in the first
progressive era to make it damned near impossible for a party to come
along and challenge the two party system. Neither Rs nor Ds wanted to
get the same treatment as the whigs.
A 3rd party's power would be negative. They couldn't win, but they could make sure the GOP loses. That may be the only alternative we have.
progressive era to make it damned near impossible for a party to come
along and challenge the two party system. Neither Rs nor Ds wanted to
get the same treatment as the whigs.
A 3rd party's power would be negative. They couldn't win, but they could make sure the GOP loses. That may be the only alternative we have.
Posted by: pep at March 16, 2015 11:28 AM (YXmuI)
177
I'm at a loss for words. My mouth just opens and closes like a guppy out of water.
Posted by: Badda Bing at March 16, 2015 11:29 AM (JgQLj)
178
Fuck'em all.
Posted by: FuckingTired at March 16, 2015 11:30 AM (FnHBZ)
179
Nothing hurts worse than having your jet taken away for not meeting the set goal.
Grown men would openly weep.
The trappings of wealth aren't as sweet if you have to hide them and raising/spending money on a campaign isn't the same as spending on yourself.
Don't underestimate the power of incentives.
Grown men would openly weep.
The trappings of wealth aren't as sweet if you have to hide them and raising/spending money on a campaign isn't the same as spending on yourself.
Don't underestimate the power of incentives.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:30 AM (9ZZd+)
180
Have an awesome sculpture.
That is awesome. I was feeling inadequate and as if I've slacked off too much at the gym, but I guess that's Hercules so it's to be expected.
Have an awesome sculpture.
That is awesome. I was feeling inadequate and as if I've slacked off too much at the gym, but I guess that's Hercules so it's to be expected.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (JtwS4)
181
A 3rd party's power would be negative. They couldn't win, but they could make sure the GOP loses. That may be the only alternative we have.
Posted by: pep at March 16, 2015 11:28 AM (YXmuI)
it would still result in Dems winning.
We need to either reform the GOP, or create a viable replacement.
We're despairing of option #2, and option #3 was last seen in the tea party, which seems to be insufficient to the task.
Posted by: pep at March 16, 2015 11:28 AM (YXmuI)
it would still result in Dems winning.
We need to either reform the GOP, or create a viable replacement.
We're despairing of option #2, and option #3 was last seen in the tea party, which seems to be insufficient to the task.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (Spluw)
182
A 3rd party's power would be negative. They couldn't win, but they could make sure the GOP loses. That may be the only alternative we have.
The GOP does that quite well on their own.
The GOP does that quite well on their own.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (DxXMy)
183
Posted by: pep at March 16, 2015 11:28 AM (YXmuI)
Properly executed, perhaps.
But you're asking a lot of people to donate, volunteer, run for office, etc. and they won't get anything out of it other than pushing some R's and getting D's elected.
Might as well just stay at home on election day.
The only way I could see a third party working is if we had another grass roots tea party like uprising combined with national politicians and big names in the conservative movement actively working to start a third party, with elected officials immediately switching to that party.
Again, the problem becomes that the R consultants and establishment types will get in ASAP and make sure they retain their power and influence and co-opt the new party.
Properly executed, perhaps.
But you're asking a lot of people to donate, volunteer, run for office, etc. and they won't get anything out of it other than pushing some R's and getting D's elected.
Might as well just stay at home on election day.
The only way I could see a third party working is if we had another grass roots tea party like uprising combined with national politicians and big names in the conservative movement actively working to start a third party, with elected officials immediately switching to that party.
Again, the problem becomes that the R consultants and establishment types will get in ASAP and make sure they retain their power and influence and co-opt the new party.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (AkOaV)
184
"A 3rd party's power would be negative. "
Just don't vote for the GOP bastards. Let them get trounced, embarrassed, destroyed a couple elections in the row.
I can't ever imagine voting for another one myself.
Just don't vote for the GOP bastards. Let them get trounced, embarrassed, destroyed a couple elections in the row.
I can't ever imagine voting for another one myself.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (LA7Cm)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at March 16, 2015 11:32 AM (DT3rQ)
186
Stateless Infidel and others, I'm just pointing out that in the case of the US, slow, comprehensive rot and decline are much more likely than kinetic collapse. "Math" can be masked and delayed for a very long time when you're looting THIS particular country, and when rules, laws, and common sense are gradually tossed aside to prolong the idiocy.
For this reason, many hereand elsewhere who put their faith in "rules" like balanced budget amendments and term limits exhibit a fundamental ignorance of our situation. Likewise those who fixate on presidential aspirants and their particular "positions".
When rule of law is shredded, and when common sense and responsibility have fled the electorate, none of these things will probably help. Islands of sanity in individual states can not hold up against the tide.
For this reason, many hereand elsewhere who put their faith in "rules" like balanced budget amendments and term limits exhibit a fundamental ignorance of our situation. Likewise those who fixate on presidential aspirants and their particular "positions".
When rule of law is shredded, and when common sense and responsibility have fled the electorate, none of these things will probably help. Islands of sanity in individual states can not hold up against the tide.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:32 AM (afQnV)
187
A Third Party set up as a traditional political party is dead in the water. What is needed is something outside of the box--a "Party" whose purpose is to mock, ridicule, and goad the existing politicians into acting the way we want them to. Schedule events next door to them, show up with at their events with friendly press, and mock the living sh!t out of them.
They have no shame, but they do have egos. Hit them there, and we'll see change.
They have no shame, but they do have egos. Hit them there, and we'll see change.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at March 16, 2015 11:33 AM (VAsIq)
188
And yet like dogs drooling to the sound of the bell, our resident apologists will be here as if on cue to tell us how the GOP is the only party to fix this mess, and we need your mmoney and your support, etc.
Any deviation from GOPe orthodoxy will be dismissed as childish, or anarchy, or ooooh how horrible, libertarianism.
You know they will.
Any deviation from GOPe orthodoxy will be dismissed as childish, or anarchy, or ooooh how horrible, libertarianism.
You know they will.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at March 16, 2015 11:33 AM (XmOA9)
189
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (Spluw)
The GOP is beyond reforming. Obviously.
But I can't help but think that's it isn't really the GOP as a vehicle that is the problem, but the culture and establishment of DC, the government bureaucrats, cronies, lobbyists, etc etc that is the real problem.
There are so many influences with huge power in DC, and they're almost all statist big-government types.
The GOP is beyond reforming. Obviously.
But I can't help but think that's it isn't really the GOP as a vehicle that is the problem, but the culture and establishment of DC, the government bureaucrats, cronies, lobbyists, etc etc that is the real problem.
There are so many influences with huge power in DC, and they're almost all statist big-government types.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:33 AM (AkOaV)
190
Don't underestimate the power of incentives.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:30 AM (9ZZd+)
*****
I'm wondering who it is that gets to set the pay and bonus structure in this magical incentive-based system of yours...the electorate? The legislative branch? The executive? Some top secret committee selected at random from the pages of Facebook? You?
???
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:30 AM (9ZZd+)
*****
I'm wondering who it is that gets to set the pay and bonus structure in this magical incentive-based system of yours...the electorate? The legislative branch? The executive? Some top secret committee selected at random from the pages of Facebook? You?
???
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:34 AM (NeFrd)
191
"A 3rd party's power would be negative. " Just don't vote for the GOP bastards. Let them get trounced, embarrassed, destroyed a couple elections in the row. I can't ever imagine voting for another one myself.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
Still fraught with problems.
Imagine you're a policy maker. Is the collapse of the GOP due to:
1.the country moving left??
2. The GOP being a poor performer?
The MFM, academia and the dems would have you believe #1. We are screaming #2. We need to determine how to restore some sort of mechanism to get them to respond to stimuli.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
Still fraught with problems.
Imagine you're a policy maker. Is the collapse of the GOP due to:
1.the country moving left??
2. The GOP being a poor performer?
The MFM, academia and the dems would have you believe #1. We are screaming #2. We need to determine how to restore some sort of mechanism to get them to respond to stimuli.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (Spluw)
192
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:32 AM (afQnV)
Yeah, I think that's the more likely scenario. Decades or centuries of slow decline, lowering living standards, devalued currency, etc.
But, at some point, the USD will no longer be the reserve currency. When that happens, I think we will see that process accelerate a bit.
Yeah, I think that's the more likely scenario. Decades or centuries of slow decline, lowering living standards, devalued currency, etc.
But, at some point, the USD will no longer be the reserve currency. When that happens, I think we will see that process accelerate a bit.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (AkOaV)
193
Perhaps if we paid member of congress in vouchers?
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
194
By the By, I hope everyone here knows that Sen. Cotton never sent any letter anywhere. He only posted an open letter on his Web Site. Not much different than normal Senatorial Debate or going on Meet The Press.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 11:36 AM (rDqRv)
195
Perhaps if we paid member of congress in vouchers?
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
Sigh. I know better than to consume consumables whilst reading the comments.
*mops tea off of everything*
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
Sigh. I know better than to consume consumables whilst reading the comments.
*mops tea off of everything*
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 11:36 AM (mf5HN)
196
Fact is that the Doctors fix is NEEDED if you want these people to see Doctors.
Medicare rates are already so low that many Doctors will not see those patients.
And thus, as Medicare grows.... more will not be able to find a Doctor... which is why Emergency room visits are UP....
Medicare rates are already so low that many Doctors will not see those patients.
And thus, as Medicare grows.... more will not be able to find a Doctor... which is why Emergency room visits are UP....
Posted by: Wolf, Big Bad, 1 ea. at March 16, 2015 11:36 AM (qh617)
197
I think Congress should just get rid of that debt ceiling law entirely and be honest. Its clear neither party has any real objection to endless debt and ignoring the "ceiling" so they should just stop pretending. At least then they'd be more honest.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 16, 2015 11:36 AM (39g3+)
198
I wonder if the Ferguson cop shooter was trying for a Kent State style response.
Y'know, fire a couple rounds, then skeedadle when the cops fire back, possibly hitting a protester or two. Then-shock! None of the innocent protesters had a weapon! How long would it take for the "Cops Brutally Gun Down Unarmed Protesters!" meme to get started?
Only his aim sucks so hard, he actually hit the cops, giving them evidence that someone was shooting.
Y'know, fire a couple rounds, then skeedadle when the cops fire back, possibly hitting a protester or two. Then-shock! None of the innocent protesters had a weapon! How long would it take for the "Cops Brutally Gun Down Unarmed Protesters!" meme to get started?
Only his aim sucks so hard, he actually hit the cops, giving them evidence that someone was shooting.
Posted by: nnptcgrad at March 16, 2015 11:36 AM (NwlNR)
199
193 Perhaps if we paid member of congress in vouchers?
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
Well played.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
Well played.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 16, 2015 11:36 AM (2Ojst)
200
I heard on the radio but dont remember all the details that a lot of the rich are leaving areas such as LA, etc. Not sure if they are going over seas or what.
Posted by: Bruce J. at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (iQIUe)
Posted by: physics geek at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (MT22W)
202
Any deviation from GOPe orthodoxy will be dismissed as childish, or anarchy, or ooooh how horrible, libertarianism. You know they will.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Did you read the libertarian diatribe on open borders? Or Rand paul running his mouth about voting rights for criminals?
Could we ally with libertarianism? Yes. Would that serve our goals? Mostly no.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Did you read the libertarian diatribe on open borders? Or Rand paul running his mouth about voting rights for criminals?
Could we ally with libertarianism? Yes. Would that serve our goals? Mostly no.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (Spluw)
203
OneEyedJack, I mentioned up-thread that in fact there seems to be less of that these days (GOP apologias using increasingly lame rationales). I don't see enough of these threads to say for sure, but it seems that way.
Have to say that even I am taken aback at the situation. I didn't think there'd be such a brazen failure to do much of anything (or even say much of anything) by the GOP after their latest huge victory.
Have to say that even I am taken aback at the situation. I didn't think there'd be such a brazen failure to do much of anything (or even say much of anything) by the GOP after their latest huge victory.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (afQnV)
204
The GOP is beyond reforming. Obviously.
But I can't help but think that's it isn't really the GOP as a vehicle that is the problem, but the culture and establishment of DC, the government bureaucrats, cronies, lobbyists, etc etc that is the real problem.
There are so many influences with huge power in DC, and they're almost all statist big-government types.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:33 AM (AkOaV)
It's why I'm only half joking when I say that if ISIS or Al-Q or any terrorist group wanted wholehearted American support, they couldn't do better than set off a nuke in DC.
But I can't help but think that's it isn't really the GOP as a vehicle that is the problem, but the culture and establishment of DC, the government bureaucrats, cronies, lobbyists, etc etc that is the real problem.
There are so many influences with huge power in DC, and they're almost all statist big-government types.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:33 AM (AkOaV)
It's why I'm only half joking when I say that if ISIS or Al-Q or any terrorist group wanted wholehearted American support, they couldn't do better than set off a nuke in DC.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (zF6Iw)
205
"I'm wondering who it is that gets to set the pay and bonus structure in this magical incentive-based system of yours...the electorate? "
Yes, the voters. It would be done in a national ballot proposal that establishes the bonus and perks program along with the very simple and transparent goals.
Yes, the voters. It would be done in a national ballot proposal that establishes the bonus and perks program along with the very simple and transparent goals.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:38 AM (9ZZd+)
206
I think Congress should just get rid of that debt ceiling law entirely and be honest.
--
They need the drama to show the LIV that 'the sky is falling', which justifies them reneging on their campaign promises.
I think Congress should just get rid of that debt ceiling law entirely and be honest.
--
They need the drama to show the LIV that 'the sky is falling', which justifies them reneging on their campaign promises.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:38 AM (2ePOO)
207
That is awesome. I was feeling inadequate and as if I've slacked off too much at the gym, but I guess that's Hercules so it's to be expected.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (JtwS4)
*peer over your shoulder*
What are you having for lunch?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 16, 2015 11:31 AM (JtwS4)
*peer over your shoulder*
What are you having for lunch?
Posted by: alexthechick - Reading. Like a me. at March 16, 2015 11:38 AM (mf5HN)
208
The MFM, academia and the dems would have you believe #1. We are screaming #2. We need to determine how to restore some sort of mechanism to get them to respond to stimuli.
Burn the media first.
Seriously, that first line should have been "The dems would have you believe #1, and the MFM and academia distort the facts to make it seem so."
Burn. The frakking. Media.
Burn the media first.
Seriously, that first line should have been "The dems would have you believe #1, and the MFM and academia distort the facts to make it seem so."
Burn. The frakking. Media.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at March 16, 2015 11:38 AM (DT3rQ)
209
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:30 AM (9ZZd+)
The much greater incentive for politicians in DC is the power. They have titans of industry crawling to them for mercy. They have the ability to insert one sentence in a law that can put thousands out of work, and/or reward cronies with millions of free dollars.
And what they get above the table is a pittance compared to the network of money they set up through family, friends, cronies, former staffers, legal inside trading, etc.
They are all multi millionaires within months of leaving DC. Most become multi millionaires while being "public servants".
Taking away a military jet isn't going to make them better people. They'll just be pissed that they miss out on one perk, but they'll console themselves with the knowledge that they can buy their own jet cash 2 or 3 years after they "retire"
The much greater incentive for politicians in DC is the power. They have titans of industry crawling to them for mercy. They have the ability to insert one sentence in a law that can put thousands out of work, and/or reward cronies with millions of free dollars.
And what they get above the table is a pittance compared to the network of money they set up through family, friends, cronies, former staffers, legal inside trading, etc.
They are all multi millionaires within months of leaving DC. Most become multi millionaires while being "public servants".
Taking away a military jet isn't going to make them better people. They'll just be pissed that they miss out on one perk, but they'll console themselves with the knowledge that they can buy their own jet cash 2 or 3 years after they "retire"
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:39 AM (AkOaV)
210
If it was unclear, I'm saying that a vote for an explicitly conservative alternative to the GOP would send a message to the GOP and would be difficult for the left to spin as the country moving in their direction because of the platform.
It wouldn't win, but the message to the GOP would be "if you ever want to win another election, you'd better start taking our views seriously".
It wouldn't win, but the message to the GOP would be "if you ever want to win another election, you'd better start taking our views seriously".
Posted by: pep at March 16, 2015 11:39 AM (YXmuI)
211
Fact is that the Doctors fix is NEEDED if you want these people to see Doctors.
I don't particularly want people living off the funds stolen from productive people to see doctors.
I don't particularly want people living off the funds stolen from productive people to see doctors.
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 11:39 AM (A6vWB)
212
193 Perhaps if we paid member of congress in vouchers?
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
You should look into the concept of vouchers for education as opposed to the system most districts use now. Once you understand it, you may support it.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
You should look into the concept of vouchers for education as opposed to the system most districts use now. Once you understand it, you may support it.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:39 AM (9ZZd+)
213
Burn. The frakking. Media.
Posted by: Brother Cavil
-----
*grabs lighter, gasoline*
....Okay, how do I do this?
Posted by: Brother Cavil
-----
*grabs lighter, gasoline*
....Okay, how do I do this?
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at March 16, 2015 11:40 AM (VAsIq)
214
Oh, yes, tell me all about the "fiscons" who care so much about cutting spending v. icky social issues.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 11:40 AM (Y92Nd)
215
Comrade Al-Gore is now calling for "punishment" for "Deniers". Presumably he has specifics in mind. (via Drudge)
http://bit.ly/19rMRcp
http://bit.ly/19rMRcp
Posted by: MTF, Denier at March 16, 2015 11:40 AM (LISuA)
216
Perhaps if we paid member of congress in vouchers?
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
Why are they being paid anything beyond a nominal stipend in the first place? Serving as a member of congress was never intended to be a career or a way to make a living, but more akin to jury duty--something that has to be done in order to keep the machinery of the country working properly. Something of a sacrifice made by free Citizens to serve their fellows.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 11:35 AM (2ePOO)
Why are they being paid anything beyond a nominal stipend in the first place? Serving as a member of congress was never intended to be a career or a way to make a living, but more akin to jury duty--something that has to be done in order to keep the machinery of the country working properly. Something of a sacrifice made by free Citizens to serve their fellows.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:41 AM (/Ho8c)
217
One thing I like about drag racing. Incredibly short time it takes from "somethings wrong" to "the wheels come off". Unfortunately Congress is the opposite.
http://tinyurl.com/lggr4fj
http://on.aol.com/video/
nhra-driver-walks-away
-from-scary-crash-518708620
http://tinyurl.com/lggr4fj
http://on.aol.com/video/
nhra-driver-walks-away
-from-scary-crash-518708620
Posted by: DaveA at March 16, 2015 11:41 AM (DL2i+)
218
Comrade Al-Gore is now calling for "punishment" for "Deniers". Presumably he has specifics in mind. (via Drudge)
Posted by: MTF
-----
Deniers will be forced to stand in the heavy winter storms that always seem to disrupt my events, no matter the time of year.
Posted by: MTF
-----
Deniers will be forced to stand in the heavy winter storms that always seem to disrupt my events, no matter the time of year.
Posted by: Al Gore, Professional Ass at March 16, 2015 11:41 AM (VAsIq)
219
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (Spluw)
And that's another problem with a third party.
Many of us talking about a third party are closer to the small "l" libertarian viewpoint and are sympathetic to many of things Rand Paul says and believes.
But the third party types coming from the GOP don't want us in their party either. And I think a large number of the independents who show up in the polls tracking with R's on most major issues, but don't show up to vote on election day are libertarian leaning people who know they're unwanted in both parties (and any potential third party as well)
And that's another problem with a third party.
Many of us talking about a third party are closer to the small "l" libertarian viewpoint and are sympathetic to many of things Rand Paul says and believes.
But the third party types coming from the GOP don't want us in their party either. And I think a large number of the independents who show up in the polls tracking with R's on most major issues, but don't show up to vote on election day are libertarian leaning people who know they're unwanted in both parties (and any potential third party as well)
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:42 AM (AkOaV)
220
The GOP leadership is going to be utterly astonished in 2016, when they lose both houses of Congress and the White House.
Posted by: Null at March 16, 2015 11:42 AM (xjpRj)
221
"Comrade Al-Gore is now calling for "punishment" for "Deniers". Presumably he has specifics in mind. (via Drudge) "
This has got to be a chapter in "History of the World, Part II".
This has got to be a chapter in "History of the World, Part II".
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 16, 2015 11:43 AM (j3OmN)
222
Orange you glad the GOP controls both houses?
John Boehner
John Boehner
Posted by: steevy at March 16, 2015 11:43 AM (KETbL)
223
Fact is that the Doctors fix is NEEDED if you want these people to see Doctors
How infuriating is this?! Government intrusion in the medical economy proves itself a dramatic failure and the suggested solution is to ramp up more intrusion. What ignorant nimrods are these Top. Men. clowns.
How infuriating is this?! Government intrusion in the medical economy proves itself a dramatic failure and the suggested solution is to ramp up more intrusion. What ignorant nimrods are these Top. Men. clowns.
Posted by: MTF, Denier at March 16, 2015 11:43 AM (LISuA)
224
Could we ally with libertarianism? Yes. Would that serve our goals? Mostly no.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (Spluw)
Give them a taste of their own medical marijuana. Infiltrate and pervert their own party, just piss all over their platform, and tell them if they want influence, they should be more tolerant of differing opinions.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:37 AM (Spluw)
Give them a taste of their own medical marijuana. Infiltrate and pervert their own party, just piss all over their platform, and tell them if they want influence, they should be more tolerant of differing opinions.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 11:43 AM (Y92Nd)
225
The US has been dropping on Heritage's economic freedom rankings ever since OBama took office. It used to be in top 5 and now it is at 12. Hell, even Chile is now higher than the US.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 16, 2015 11:43 AM (wlDny)
226
newhandle, oh yes, USD as reserve currency is clearly the key to it all.
Another example of inertial greatness. The dollar's status has everything to do with spectacularly good and honorable past accomplishments (WWII and aftermath) and nothing to do with any current behavior or merit.
But it enables the looting and idiocy we now see. More than anything else (well, leaving aside the absolutely neccessary lack of responsibility of the electorate - and oh we're seeing that in this thread already ..... can't "cut" benefits, you know!).
Remember musing - without too much real optimism - with some others back when the Euro was launched. Naturally we were contemptuous of the whole enterprise, given the self-inflicted problems of Europe, but one huge potential plus was our focus: what if the Eurozone actually achieved enough success and financial integrity that there would finally be some alternative to US bonds. There might finally be some sort of real check on American fiscal irresponsibility (the kind we used to provide ourselves - see Carter's last budget, rejection by the bond market, etc.).
Nope.
Another example of inertial greatness. The dollar's status has everything to do with spectacularly good and honorable past accomplishments (WWII and aftermath) and nothing to do with any current behavior or merit.
But it enables the looting and idiocy we now see. More than anything else (well, leaving aside the absolutely neccessary lack of responsibility of the electorate - and oh we're seeing that in this thread already ..... can't "cut" benefits, you know!).
Remember musing - without too much real optimism - with some others back when the Euro was launched. Naturally we were contemptuous of the whole enterprise, given the self-inflicted problems of Europe, but one huge potential plus was our focus: what if the Eurozone actually achieved enough success and financial integrity that there would finally be some alternative to US bonds. There might finally be some sort of real check on American fiscal irresponsibility (the kind we used to provide ourselves - see Carter's last budget, rejection by the bond market, etc.).
Nope.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:44 AM (afQnV)
227
Yes, the voters. It would be done in a national ballot proposal that establishes the bonus and perks program along with the very simple and transparent goals.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:38 AM (9ZZd+)
******
So a system that would be rapidly responsive to any changes in the incentivization needs of the public. Like reverse central planning. What happens when Congress responds perversely to the incentives the electorate voted on? You're going to need an oversight committee. Who gets to be on that? Congress? The President? The Judiciary? The electorate? 400 people picked at random from Facebook? You?
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:38 AM (9ZZd+)
******
So a system that would be rapidly responsive to any changes in the incentivization needs of the public. Like reverse central planning. What happens when Congress responds perversely to the incentives the electorate voted on? You're going to need an oversight committee. Who gets to be on that? Congress? The President? The Judiciary? The electorate? 400 people picked at random from Facebook? You?
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:44 AM (NeFrd)
228
Vote for people you would want in office when things start to unravel.
Those folks can help guide the collapse and help start a recovery.
Preventing the collapse is impossible.
Those folks can help guide the collapse and help start a recovery.
Preventing the collapse is impossible.
Posted by: eman at March 16, 2015 11:44 AM (MQEz6)
229
Free Beacon @FreeBeacon 2m2 minutes ago
Clinton Foundation Took $2 MILLION from Chinese Company in 2013 http://goo.gl/q6rvJk via @BrentScher
Clinton Foundation Took $2 MILLION from Chinese Company in 2013 http://goo.gl/q6rvJk via @BrentScher
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:44 AM (ZPrif)
230
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:32 AM (afQnV)
We're in perfect agreement. And as someone up thread posted, it is a testament to America's place in the world, the reserve currency status of the US dollar, and the quality of those productive people in the US that the slide hasn't been faster.
I once did quick calculations about how Canada would fare if we were spending at the rate of the US. We wouldn't have lasted long. Hell, my province of Ontario, 11 million people, $300 BILLION in debt, is going to be burning quickly.
It might not be a kinetic collapse, but over the last 8 years, a LOT of people have left, with paperwork and without.
To me, the one thing that brings the seriousness of America's situation to the harshest light is that people are so scared of the US government and the direction they are going, that they are willingly leaving and avoiding the country.
$2350 to renounce US citizenship.
At that rate, the libs will finally be building the border fences to keep people in.
We're in perfect agreement. And as someone up thread posted, it is a testament to America's place in the world, the reserve currency status of the US dollar, and the quality of those productive people in the US that the slide hasn't been faster.
I once did quick calculations about how Canada would fare if we were spending at the rate of the US. We wouldn't have lasted long. Hell, my province of Ontario, 11 million people, $300 BILLION in debt, is going to be burning quickly.
It might not be a kinetic collapse, but over the last 8 years, a LOT of people have left, with paperwork and without.
To me, the one thing that brings the seriousness of America's situation to the harshest light is that people are so scared of the US government and the direction they are going, that they are willingly leaving and avoiding the country.
$2350 to renounce US citizenship.
At that rate, the libs will finally be building the border fences to keep people in.
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at March 16, 2015 11:45 AM (AC0lD)
231
Got a phone call from the RNC seeking a contribution. I said the minute they oust Boehner and McConnell from leadership and grow some backbone, they might see a dime. The guy couldn't get off the phone fast enough....didn't even try.
Posted by: dixigal at March 16, 2015 11:45 AM (+04aH)
232
Deniers will be forced to stand in the heavy winter storms that always seem to disrupt my events, no matter the time of year.
****
Like a layer of involuntary human insulation.
****
Like a layer of involuntary human insulation.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:45 AM (NeFrd)
233
"Government intrusion in the medical economy proves itself a dramatic failure and the suggested solution is to ramp up more intrusion."
The Doc-Fix doesn't actually FIX anything. It just buys votes from the AMA, those greedy foot-amputators.
The Doc-Fix doesn't actually FIX anything. It just buys votes from the AMA, those greedy foot-amputators.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 11:45 AM (Y92Nd)
234
I'll hold the football Charlie Boner.
Posted by: Lucy at March 16, 2015 11:45 AM (1vYi0)
235
Oh well, I guess I'll just go back to hoarding beans, bullets, and booze.
Posted by: no good deed at March 16, 2015 11:45 AM (ZKGnj)
236
Oh look, J West is here to tell us all that the congresscritters would all be angels if we just paid them more. It must be Monday.
Posted by: Lauren at March 16, 2015 11:46 AM (KqtD6)
237
Look, I am not a doctrinaire libertarian, it's too....something at the edges. But,
Take all of the welfare programs currently in existence off the table. All of them. Including corporate welfare.
Slash Taxes.
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody.
Who comes here to be productive citizens? And who has a problem with that?
Take all of the welfare programs currently in existence off the table. All of them. Including corporate welfare.
Slash Taxes.
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody.
Who comes here to be productive citizens? And who has a problem with that?
Posted by: OneEyedJack at March 16, 2015 11:46 AM (XmOA9)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:47 AM (CMkNk)
239
I had my dog fixed. Now we're talking about doing the same to doctors? Ouch!
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:47 AM (NeFrd)
240
The GOP leadership is going to be utterly astonished in 2016, when they lose both houses of Congress and the White House.
Posted by: Null at March 16, 2015 11:42 AM (xjpRj)
Would that that were true. They'll most likely sigh in contented happiness knowing that they don't have to pretend to pander to those icky conservatives, and that they can count on the Dems to do the hard work of governing.
Posted by: Null at March 16, 2015 11:42 AM (xjpRj)
Would that that were true. They'll most likely sigh in contented happiness knowing that they don't have to pretend to pander to those icky conservatives, and that they can count on the Dems to do the hard work of governing.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 16, 2015 11:47 AM (zF6Iw)
241
It's why I'm only half joking when I say that if ISIS or Al-Q or any
terrorist group wanted wholehearted American support, they couldn't do
better than set off a nuke in DC.
I'd miss some of the buildings.
eggs/omelettes
terrorist group wanted wholehearted American support, they couldn't do
better than set off a nuke in DC.
I'd miss some of the buildings.
eggs/omelettes
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at March 16, 2015 11:47 AM (sH832)
242
So Al Gore bin Laden is a billionaire trying to forcibly convert the world to his fundamentalist religion, eh?
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (ZPrif)
243
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Certainly not me.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Certainly not me.
Posted by: Pregnant Mexican at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (1vYi0)
244
One other thing on this debt ceiling shit. Obama is spending money and adding to the debt faster than FDR did during the depression and WWII. He has now racked up in 6 years more debt than FDR did in 3 and 1/2 terms.
That is absolutely amazing.
That is absolutely amazing.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (wlDny)
245
The electorate? 400 people picked at random from Facebook? You?
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:44 AM (NeFrd)
Yeah, we're going to have reality government, because it's what we deserve. When you need something, make an inspirational GoFundMe pitch. I think we should also do away with elections and just have a catalog of free shit you can select.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:44 AM (NeFrd)
Yeah, we're going to have reality government, because it's what we deserve. When you need something, make an inspirational GoFundMe pitch. I think we should also do away with elections and just have a catalog of free shit you can select.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (Y92Nd)
246
"What happens when Congress responds perversely to the incentives the electorate voted on?"
That is why the goals are simple and transparent. The American public have a way of knowing what is fair and right. If the congress meets the goals in fact and spirit, they get their bonus and perks. If they find some way to skirt the goals and try to take their bonus and perks, the public would replace them very quickly.
That is why the goals are simple and transparent. The American public have a way of knowing what is fair and right. If the congress meets the goals in fact and spirit, they get their bonus and perks. If they find some way to skirt the goals and try to take their bonus and perks, the public would replace them very quickly.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (9ZZd+)
247
If you gave congress a coupon for a free hot dog & some tanning lotion, I'm pretty sure they'd magically balance the budget.
Posted by: Anderson Cooper's Hot Dog Canoe at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (Q819Q)
248
It is!! Want to buy a toothbrush??
Posted by: Just the Punchline at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (evdj2)
249
I don't particularly want people living off the funds stolen from productive people to see doctors.
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 11:39 AM (A6vWB)
This.
You have *no right* to something someone else must produce or provide.
That simple sentence seems to elude our so-called "betters" with disturbing ease and frequency.
Posted by: Methos at March 16, 2015 11:39 AM (A6vWB)
This.
You have *no right* to something someone else must produce or provide.
That simple sentence seems to elude our so-called "betters" with disturbing ease and frequency.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (M1uf/)
250
There's no way to send a message. If the GOPe win, they think we love their big gov ways. If they lose, they think it's because they weren't liberal enough.
Posted by: Lauren at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (KqtD6)
251
Also, I'd be more than happy to go back to as close to a constitutionally limited, democratically elected republic as possible.
It just ain't going to happen with the two parties we have now.
Being told some other party is just stupid because x, y, and z doesn't make how stupid our current situation is any less stupid.
\Did that makes sense? Need another cup of coffee.
It just ain't going to happen with the two parties we have now.
Being told some other party is just stupid because x, y, and z doesn't make how stupid our current situation is any less stupid.
\Did that makes sense? Need another cup of coffee.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (XmOA9)
252
By the way, for anyone not paying attention, unfunded liabilities are somewhere between $100 and $200 trillion.
I don't know what's more fucked up; that we have that much or that we're not sure exactly what the amount is. Or that no matter what, we will never be able to pay it back.
Societal collapse will be a bitch.
By the way, for anyone not paying attention, unfunded liabilities are somewhere between $100 and $200 trillion.
I don't know what's more fucked up; that we have that much or that we're not sure exactly what the amount is. Or that no matter what, we will never be able to pay it back.
Societal collapse will be a bitch.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (CMkNk)
253
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:44 AM (afQnV)
Yeah, the Euro never really had a shot.
I've been thinking about which currency would replace the USD -- probably a market basket of currencies (that's under consideration right now)... BUT, what if there really was no reserve currency? Every country issued fiat currency based on the full faith and credit of their governments (hey, works for the americans) and use oil or gold or whatever as a "reserve".
The Chinese and Russians are already trading with each other in the own currencies... whats to stop everyone else from doing that, too?
Yeah, the Euro never really had a shot.
I've been thinking about which currency would replace the USD -- probably a market basket of currencies (that's under consideration right now)... BUT, what if there really was no reserve currency? Every country issued fiat currency based on the full faith and credit of their governments (hey, works for the americans) and use oil or gold or whatever as a "reserve".
The Chinese and Russians are already trading with each other in the own currencies... whats to stop everyone else from doing that, too?
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (AkOaV)
254
How infuriating is this?! Government intrusion in the medical economy proves itself a dramatic failure and the suggested solution is to ramp up more intrusion. What ignorant nimrods are these Top. Men. clowns.
Posted by: MTF
My sister and her husband both parroted the line that the problems caused by obmacare are due entirely to it not going far enough. They even used the lie 'single payer'.
My response: None of what was promised came to pass, incompetence and corruption and waivers are rife, and the only solution is give the perpetrators more reach, more power, and more funding?
They stared at me. They want to believe.
Posted by: MTF
My sister and her husband both parroted the line that the problems caused by obmacare are due entirely to it not going far enough. They even used the lie 'single payer'.
My response: None of what was promised came to pass, incompetence and corruption and waivers are rife, and the only solution is give the perpetrators more reach, more power, and more funding?
They stared at me. They want to believe.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (Spluw)
255
The American public have a way of knowing what is fair and right.
Thus their continuing votes to rob me to pay for some illegal alien to have health care.
Thus their continuing votes to rob me to pay for some illegal alien to have health care.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:50 AM (M1uf/)
256
This just proves how influential Ace has become.
He turns Democrat in early March, and the Boehner/McConnell led GOP caucus follows just two weeks later.
He turns Democrat in early March, and the Boehner/McConnell led GOP caucus follows just two weeks later.
Posted by: MTF, Denier at March 16, 2015 11:50 AM (LISuA)
257
So Putin is back
VANITY FAIR @VanityFair 34m34 minutes ago
Putin on his 10-day absence: life is "boring without gossip" http://vnty.fr/1MFsbKd
VANITY FAIR @VanityFair 34m34 minutes ago
Putin on his 10-day absence: life is "boring without gossip" http://vnty.fr/1MFsbKd
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:50 AM (ZPrif)
258
The American public have a way of knowing what is fair and right. If the congress meets the goals in fact and spirit, they get their bonus and perks. If they find some way to skirt the goals and try to take their bonus and perks, the public would replace them very quickly.
*****
Some of the finest comedy writing on the Internet can be found right here at AoSHQ on any given thread.
*****
Some of the finest comedy writing on the Internet can be found right here at AoSHQ on any given thread.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 16, 2015 11:50 AM (NeFrd)
259
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (CMkNk)
Well, there's no way to really know for sure. After all, how can we possibly know economic conditions, life expectancy, etc. 20 years from now? Plus, who can stay on top of all of the govt promises floating around out there?
So 100 or 200 or 500 trillion or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's more than anyone could ever pay back, and that's all that really matters.
Well, there's no way to really know for sure. After all, how can we possibly know economic conditions, life expectancy, etc. 20 years from now? Plus, who can stay on top of all of the govt promises floating around out there?
So 100 or 200 or 500 trillion or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's more than anyone could ever pay back, and that's all that really matters.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 11:51 AM (AkOaV)
260
MTF - nice one!
Posted by: rhomboid at March 16, 2015 11:51 AM (afQnV)
261
I don't know what's more fucked up; that we have that much or that we're not sure exactly what the amount is. Or that no matter what, we will never be able to pay it back.
Oh, bullshit. We can just print more money. Duh!
Oh, bullshit. We can just print more money. Duh!
Posted by: Zimbabwe's 30th Recovery Summer at March 16, 2015 11:51 AM (Q819Q)
262
Got a phone call from the RNC seeking a contribution. I said the minute
they oust Boehner and McConnell from leadership and grow some backbone,
they might see a dime. The guy couldn't get off the phone fast
enough....didn't even try.
I see they've been calling here. Talk about balls. I hope that's the message from coast to coast, but I somehow doubt it.
Plus, I don't think there's a backbone to grow, they like it this way.
they oust Boehner and McConnell from leadership and grow some backbone,
they might see a dime. The guy couldn't get off the phone fast
enough....didn't even try.
I see they've been calling here. Talk about balls. I hope that's the message from coast to coast, but I somehow doubt it.
Plus, I don't think there's a backbone to grow, they like it this way.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at March 16, 2015 11:51 AM (sH832)
263
So, okay. A third party won't work. What about an insurrection?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:47 AM (CMkNk)
Somewhat relevant:
http://goo.gl/wu6XQK
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 16, 2015 11:47 AM (CMkNk)
Somewhat relevant:
http://goo.gl/wu6XQK
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 16, 2015 11:51 AM (zF6Iw)
264
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Certainly not me.
Posted by: Pregnant Mexican at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (1vYi0)
Me so hawny. Sucky sucky tax dorrahs wrong time.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Certainly not me.
Posted by: Pregnant Mexican at March 16, 2015 11:48 AM (1vYi0)
Me so hawny. Sucky sucky tax dorrahs wrong time.
Posted by: Chinese Birth Tourists of CA at March 16, 2015 11:52 AM (Y92Nd)
265
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody. Who comes here to be productive citizens? And who has a problem with that?
Posted by: OneEyedJack
As soon as you successfully bell the cat regarding welfare, c'mon back and tell us more about how anything and everything that crawls across a line is magically delicious.
And i was told that libertarians were realists. feh.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
As soon as you successfully bell the cat regarding welfare, c'mon back and tell us more about how anything and everything that crawls across a line is magically delicious.
And i was told that libertarians were realists. feh.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:52 AM (Spluw)
266
There's no way to send a message. If the GOPe win, they think we love their big gov ways. If they lose, they think it's because they weren't liberal enough.
They have an a priori commitment to Progressivism. Just like the Democrats. Since Progressivism must be correct then any failure must be a failure "of the people," and any success must be a success because of Progressivism.
"Please, I beseech you in the bowels of Christ. Consider that you might be mistaken." ~Stuff Sir Oliver Cromwell said.
They have an a priori commitment to Progressivism. Just like the Democrats. Since Progressivism must be correct then any failure must be a failure "of the people," and any success must be a success because of Progressivism.
"Please, I beseech you in the bowels of Christ. Consider that you might be mistaken." ~Stuff Sir Oliver Cromwell said.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:53 AM (M1uf/)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 11:53 AM (Y92Nd)
268
Freedom of movement is a basic liberty that governments should respect
and protect unless justified by extenuating circumstances. This extends
to movement across international boundaries.
___
I would be interested in your newsletter.
and protect unless justified by extenuating circumstances. This extends
to movement across international boundaries.
___
I would be interested in your newsletter.
Posted by: Attilla the Hun at March 16, 2015 11:54 AM (78TbK)
269
Proof my pessimism about the RepoCrats is well founded. We have only one party in DC, with two wings; the Hawk wing and the Dove wing of the Big Spenders Club.
To your tents, O Israel!
To your tents, O Israel!
Posted by: CourtesyFlush at March 16, 2015 11:54 AM (T8dAj)
270
I'm so glad the GOP won last November. What a wondrous change!
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:54 AM (/Ho8c)
271
So Putin is back VANITY FAIR @VanityFair 34m34 minutes ago Putin on his 10-day absence: life is "boring without gossip" http://vnty.fr/1MFsbKd
Posted by: Costanza Defense
if someone had told me that the US President would be meeting with a batshit crazy woman that sat in a tub full of breakfast cereal and milk, and the former head of the KGB was the subject of international gossip, I would have called you crazy.
More fool me.
Posted by: Costanza Defense
if someone had told me that the US President would be meeting with a batshit crazy woman that sat in a tub full of breakfast cereal and milk, and the former head of the KGB was the subject of international gossip, I would have called you crazy.
More fool me.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:54 AM (Spluw)
272
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 11:49 AM (Spluw)
=========================
I get the same blank stares from my lefty sister too. When she starts sputtering I just ask her: would you like your food purchasing to require the same effort it now takes to buy medical care? Or passports? Or Drivers Licenses?
She sort of gets it only then, but she's still inexplicably afraid to trust the market to provide for her needs. I honestly just don't get why she trusts the government but not the free economy, when every day teaches the lesson.
=========================
I get the same blank stares from my lefty sister too. When she starts sputtering I just ask her: would you like your food purchasing to require the same effort it now takes to buy medical care? Or passports? Or Drivers Licenses?
She sort of gets it only then, but she's still inexplicably afraid to trust the market to provide for her needs. I honestly just don't get why she trusts the government but not the free economy, when every day teaches the lesson.
Posted by: MTF, Denier at March 16, 2015 11:55 AM (LISuA)
273
My bet has been plastic surgery from day 1. Putin is a vain man. An aging vain man
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 11:55 AM (ZPrif)
274
See, Blue Hen, up above is where I specifically said I wasn't libertarian. But keep fucking that chicken.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at March 16, 2015 11:55 AM (XmOA9)
275
And so here we are...
-2011-
"We're only one-half of one-third of the government," they said.
-2014-
"We don't have the White House," they said.
-2017-
"We didn't get into this situation overnight," they said.
-2021-
"What the hell happened to the Old Republic?" we said.
*cue Imperial March theme from Star Wars
-2011-
"We're only one-half of one-third of the government," they said.
-2014-
"We don't have the White House," they said.
-2017-
"We didn't get into this situation overnight," they said.
-2021-
"What the hell happened to the Old Republic?" we said.
*cue Imperial March theme from Star Wars
Posted by: itzWicks at March 16, 2015 11:55 AM (9hbf9)
276
If we had only gone full progofascist in 2012 we would be two years closer to the big burn.
Those that said we should not have let it all burn have been proven to be wrong. I'm not a republican anymore, went American Independent Party but I might just change again to democrat. Sure the democrats are thieving fascists that want to bring the country into the third world of nations at least they are honest about it and fight for what they say.
Those that said we should not have let it all burn have been proven to be wrong. I'm not a republican anymore, went American Independent Party but I might just change again to democrat. Sure the democrats are thieving fascists that want to bring the country into the third world of nations at least they are honest about it and fight for what they say.
Posted by: Jukin Former Republican at March 16, 2015 11:56 AM (WGm5T)
277
Me so hawny. Sucky sucky tax dorrahs wrong time.
Posted by: Chinese Birth Tourists
bwaaaahahaahahhahaahaha
Posted by: Chinese Birth Tourists
bwaaaahahaahahhahaahaha
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:56 AM (/Ho8c)
278
Freedom of movement is a basic liberty that governments should respect and protect unless justified by extenuating circumstances. This extends to movement across international boundaries.
That freedom exists and is protected more by the United States than any other country in the world.
You may have a right to move- that does not give you a right to citizenship, to work legally, or to any government benefits.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SOMETHING SOMEONE ELSE MUST PRODUCE OR PROVIDE.
Why is that hard?
That freedom exists and is protected more by the United States than any other country in the world.
You may have a right to move- that does not give you a right to citizenship, to work legally, or to any government benefits.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SOMETHING SOMEONE ELSE MUST PRODUCE OR PROVIDE.
Why is that hard?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:56 AM (M1uf/)
279
"Vote for people you would want in office when things start to unravel.
Those folks can help guide the collapse and help start a recovery.
Preventing the collapse is impossible."
The Foundation Party?
"Vote for people you would want in office when things start to unravel.
Those folks can help guide the collapse and help start a recovery.
Preventing the collapse is impossible."
The Foundation Party?
Posted by: HH at March 16, 2015 11:57 AM (Ce4DF)
280
"So 100 or 200 or 500 trillion or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's more than anyone could ever pay back, and that's all that really matters."
Yes, it is. They're fantasy numbers anymore.
Yes, it is. They're fantasy numbers anymore.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:57 AM (LA7Cm)
281
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Seriously?
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Seriously?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:57 AM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: DaveA at March 16, 2015 11:57 AM (DL2i+)
283
Freedom of movement is a basic liberty that governments should respect and protect unless justified by extenuating circumstances. This extends to movement across international boundaries.
No, it doesn't.
No, it doesn't.
Posted by: toby928(C) trumps your assertion at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (evdj2)
284
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody.
Wait, what?
I think you dropped this => [ /sarc]
Wait, what?
I think you dropped this => [ /sarc]
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (M1uf/)
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (/Ho8c)
286
Drew, I am regular, daily reader of the blog. I almost never comment, but I found your post particularly heartless and partisan. The "doc fix" is not a Dem issue that the Conservatives Must Stop, as you said it's been an ongoing failure of our budgetary process and the lying in Washington.
My problem with your post is you are railing on the Republican leadership for being Dems for basically trying to preserve declining healthcare choices for the elderly. I've worked for less than 5 physician groups that only see the elderly, because of the demographic of their illness. Medicare has not, repeat not, kept up with either inflation or CPI for many, many years - and Medicare pays far less than any commercial insurance.
From this post, you are putting partisanship so ahead of being educated of what is happening to physicians in this country. Obamacare has been savaging these small practices, and the amount of MDs leaving is going to cause a European shortage of services Real Soon. ICD-10, other regulation is making throwing in the towel more and more appealing. Your interest in forcing people out, as MD overhead increases, what small businesses have to pay for staff health insurance skyrockets, and your axe to grind is these kleptocrats not honoring promises they made to the worker bees (MDs) while turning on the money spigots to health insurance companies... Come on man.
I bet you didn't know that the Medicare system funds all the internship spots for Medical School students going into residency, and those spots have not only been not expanded with population growth, but actually cut in half or more in recent years. This affects *everyone* as there is now a lower rate of MDs being produced with a growing population... So before you bang the drum about the evil "doc fix", just consider the two tier healthcare system you are now promoting.
I already have to pay cash for some MD visits, as certain specialties in some cities has abandoned even bothering with insurance, Obamacare, Medicare, and they can because there is a MD shortage. I don't blame them, not spending tens of thousands, hassle, legal threats, to bill far less than cash. But it's sad, because your grandparents probably can't afford that. I know mine cant.
My problem with your post is you are railing on the Republican leadership for being Dems for basically trying to preserve declining healthcare choices for the elderly. I've worked for less than 5 physician groups that only see the elderly, because of the demographic of their illness. Medicare has not, repeat not, kept up with either inflation or CPI for many, many years - and Medicare pays far less than any commercial insurance.
From this post, you are putting partisanship so ahead of being educated of what is happening to physicians in this country. Obamacare has been savaging these small practices, and the amount of MDs leaving is going to cause a European shortage of services Real Soon. ICD-10, other regulation is making throwing in the towel more and more appealing. Your interest in forcing people out, as MD overhead increases, what small businesses have to pay for staff health insurance skyrockets, and your axe to grind is these kleptocrats not honoring promises they made to the worker bees (MDs) while turning on the money spigots to health insurance companies... Come on man.
I bet you didn't know that the Medicare system funds all the internship spots for Medical School students going into residency, and those spots have not only been not expanded with population growth, but actually cut in half or more in recent years. This affects *everyone* as there is now a lower rate of MDs being produced with a growing population... So before you bang the drum about the evil "doc fix", just consider the two tier healthcare system you are now promoting.
I already have to pay cash for some MD visits, as certain specialties in some cities has abandoned even bothering with insurance, Obamacare, Medicare, and they can because there is a MD shortage. I don't blame them, not spending tens of thousands, hassle, legal threats, to bill far less than cash. But it's sad, because your grandparents probably can't afford that. I know mine cant.
Posted by: RandomLurker at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (VPnld)
287
The American public have a way of knowing what is fair and right.
And then doing the opposite. For the children!
And then doing the opposite. For the children!
Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (oKE6c)
288
281- he was saying get rid of all welfare first.
Posted by: nnptcgrad at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (NwlNR)
289
Let It Burn is the only pathway remaining to save the Republic. The Republican establishment is going to corrupt any reformers that get to Congress and the White House I the future.
Of course, L.I.B. implies the Republic has to be destroyed to save it. It's the next two generations afer it falls that would attempt to rebuild/save it.
Of course, L.I.B. implies the Republic has to be destroyed to save it. It's the next two generations afer it falls that would attempt to rebuild/save it.
Posted by: Eastwood Ravine at March 16, 2015 11:59 AM (gXTUw)
290
Moderate Salami:
You'd have to go back upthread to see there was more to that statement than just that.
It's been reduced, and I'll not support that statement just as it sits.
You'd have to go back upthread to see there was more to that statement than just that.
It's been reduced, and I'll not support that statement just as it sits.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at March 16, 2015 11:59 AM (XmOA9)
291
Is RandomLurker Mary Cloggenstein of Brattleboro, VT?
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 11:59 AM (Y92Nd)
292
I said this would happen on election day 2014. I was run out of town by everyone here for being too negative and how we need to give the GOP a chance.
Good times.
Good times.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (0LHZx)
293
Every single rotten cent spent on any increase in Domestic Spending should me matched by double or triple the amount on Defense Spending
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (rDqRv)
294
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 16, 2015 11:57 AM (LA7Cm)
Even if we ended all welfare tomorrow and said "nobody else can sign up. Everyone in SS and Medicare are grandfathered in, everyone else -- tough shit" we'd still end up going bankrupt. We've long since past the time when this was all fixable.
That time was probably in the 1950's when we were the industrial powerhouse of the world and had seemingly unlimited wealth and could have used some of that surplus to buy out obligations, spend money to structurally shrink government, etc.
Instead we just continued to spend more than we had and expanded government and haven't looked back.
Even if we ended all welfare tomorrow and said "nobody else can sign up. Everyone in SS and Medicare are grandfathered in, everyone else -- tough shit" we'd still end up going bankrupt. We've long since past the time when this was all fixable.
That time was probably in the 1950's when we were the industrial powerhouse of the world and had seemingly unlimited wealth and could have used some of that surplus to buy out obligations, spend money to structurally shrink government, etc.
Instead we just continued to spend more than we had and expanded government and haven't looked back.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (AkOaV)
295
Remember "Repeal and REPLACE"?
Funny that there's not a peep about that anymore. No loss, really. The "replace" part ensured that Obamacare would live forever and get more and more bloated.
Tell me, how would this be different if we had Democrat majorities?
Funny that there's not a peep about that anymore. No loss, really. The "replace" part ensured that Obamacare would live forever and get more and more bloated.
Tell me, how would this be different if we had Democrat majorities?
Posted by: Damiano at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (AEQXb)
296
I bet you didn't know that the Medicare system funds all the internship spots for Medical School students going into residency
--
Spot the fundamental flaw
I bet you didn't know that the Medicare system funds all the internship spots for Medical School students going into residency
--
Spot the fundamental flaw
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (2ePOO)
297
It's been reduced, and I'll not support that statement just as it sits.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
kk
Posted by: OneEyedJack
kk
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (/Ho8c)
298
See, Blue Hen, up above is where I specifically said I wasn't libertarian. But keep fucking that chicken.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Look, I am not a doctrinaire libertarian, it's too....something at the edges. But,
Try again.
And it still doesn't begin to reconcile the "all immigration is great" bit. Few things in this worl are 100% good, neato and jolly. Which is why controls tend to exist. Where they are artificial barriers to entry (carve outs for certain guilds or industries) we then have a problem.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Look, I am not a doctrinaire libertarian, it's too....something at the edges. But,
Try again.
And it still doesn't begin to reconcile the "all immigration is great" bit. Few things in this worl are 100% good, neato and jolly. Which is why controls tend to exist. Where they are artificial barriers to entry (carve outs for certain guilds or industries) we then have a problem.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 12:01 PM (Spluw)
299
Look, I am not a doctrinaire libertarian, it's too....something at the edges. But,
Take all of the welfare programs currently in existence off the table. All of them. Including corporate welfare.
***
Here is the problem with the 90s era LP types. They don't get this. It is far, far, easier to get amnesty through then get rid of welfare - both corporate and individual.
So as an LP you should be virulently against amnesty because the real fight is on welfare. If you defeat the left on welfare amnesty would be a walk in the park comparatively. But where are they expending their efforts? On Amnesty.
Anyway this is all moot at the 2015 era LP types are hardcore leftists anyway.
Take all of the welfare programs currently in existence off the table. All of them. Including corporate welfare.
***
Here is the problem with the 90s era LP types. They don't get this. It is far, far, easier to get amnesty through then get rid of welfare - both corporate and individual.
So as an LP you should be virulently against amnesty because the real fight is on welfare. If you defeat the left on welfare amnesty would be a walk in the park comparatively. But where are they expending their efforts? On Amnesty.
Anyway this is all moot at the 2015 era LP types are hardcore leftists anyway.
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:01 PM (78TbK)
300
Is RandomLurker Mary Cloggenstein of Brattleboro, VT?
I have always sad eyes to be a less that convincing argument as to why I have to support someone else's grandparents.
I have always sad eyes to be a less that convincing argument as to why I have to support someone else's grandparents.
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:01 PM (evdj2)
301
Posted by: RandomLurker at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (VPnld)
*ahem*
You have NO RIGHT to something someone else must produce or provide.
The answer is not continually to pass a new "doc fix." The answer is to stop pretending that health care (let alone health insurance) is a "right." It is not: it is a good/service which is for sale. I have no obligation to pay for yours.
My obligation to help my parents pay for theirs is purely a moral one, not an economic one, and that moral one does not extend (in any concrete way) to some dude in Oregon, or some chick in New York, or some S/h/it it Minnesota who I will never meet.
*ahem*
You have NO RIGHT to something someone else must produce or provide.
The answer is not continually to pass a new "doc fix." The answer is to stop pretending that health care (let alone health insurance) is a "right." It is not: it is a good/service which is for sale. I have no obligation to pay for yours.
My obligation to help my parents pay for theirs is purely a moral one, not an economic one, and that moral one does not extend (in any concrete way) to some dude in Oregon, or some chick in New York, or some S/h/it it Minnesota who I will never meet.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Wearing The Lilac at March 16, 2015 12:02 PM (M1uf/)
302
Wait.....
Did someone call Senator Orrin G. Hatch a conservative Republican?
Did someone call Senator Orrin G. Hatch a conservative Republican?
Posted by: matthewjohn at March 16, 2015 12:02 PM (7pEow)
303
Al Sharpton Demands First Class Flights For Himself, Economy Tickets For His Assistant When He Speaks At Public Universities
Taxpayers have been picking up the tab for Sharpton to fly first class and stay in five star hotel suites while he travels the country speaking at public colleges and universities.
Weasel Zippers
Race Hustling pays I guess
Taxpayers have been picking up the tab for Sharpton to fly first class and stay in five star hotel suites while he travels the country speaking at public colleges and universities.
Weasel Zippers
Race Hustling pays I guess
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 12:02 PM (rDqRv)
304
Bring on the brainiacs.
Posted by: Larry Kudlow at March 16, 2015 12:02 PM (W5DcG)
305
292 I said this would happen on election day 2014. I was run out of town by everyone here for being too negative and how we need to give the GOP a chance.
Good times.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (0LHZx)
No, its because you are an unlikeable miserable worthless little shit.
Good times.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 16, 2015 12:00 PM (0LHZx)
No, its because you are an unlikeable miserable worthless little shit.
Posted by: buzzion at March 16, 2015 12:02 PM (zt+N6)
306
Every single rotten cent spent on any increase in Domestic Spending should me matched by double or triple the amount on Defense Spending
Indeed. Only a national program of conquest and plunder is going to make this system solvent.
Indeed. Only a national program of conquest and plunder is going to make this system solvent.
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:03 PM (evdj2)
307
The Open Borders is being pushed by that special class of libertarians - Libertarians With Tenure.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 12:03 PM (ZPrif)
308
Who comes here over the unprotected borders to take advantage of our generosity? Nobody.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Seriously?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:57 AM (/Ho8c)
My original statement was made within the hypothesis that all welfare was gone. The entire safety net. Under those conditions, there would be no incentive to come here for an easier life.
A better life? Yes. But not a gravy train.
But the whole thing got reduced to one statement. Which, taken out of context, sounds nuts.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
Seriously?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at March 16, 2015 11:57 AM (/Ho8c)
My original statement was made within the hypothesis that all welfare was gone. The entire safety net. Under those conditions, there would be no incentive to come here for an easier life.
A better life? Yes. But not a gravy train.
But the whole thing got reduced to one statement. Which, taken out of context, sounds nuts.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at March 16, 2015 12:03 PM (XmOA9)
309
"Obamacare has been savaging these small practices, and the amount of MDs leaving is going to cause a European shortage of services Real Soon."
Just like every single person with common sense predicted. When you keep printing money, it becomes worthless, and it is no longer an incentive for the best and the brightest. No doctor wants to rely on gubmint largesse, and fewer young people are seeing the value of entering the medical field.
This is because of government interference in the market. The solution is not to invite more of it.
Just like every single person with common sense predicted. When you keep printing money, it becomes worthless, and it is no longer an incentive for the best and the brightest. No doctor wants to rely on gubmint largesse, and fewer young people are seeing the value of entering the medical field.
This is because of government interference in the market. The solution is not to invite more of it.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 12:04 PM (Y92Nd)
310
293 "Every single rotten cent spent on any increase in Domestic Spending should me matched by double or triple the amount on Defense Spending"
Start with a fresh sheet of paper and we could have just as powerful a military at half the cost.
Wasting money on defense is still wasting it.
Start with a fresh sheet of paper and we could have just as powerful a military at half the cost.
Wasting money on defense is still wasting it.
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 12:04 PM (9ZZd+)
311
Indeed. Only a national program of conquest and plunder is going to make this system solvent.
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:03 PM (evdj2)
I wasn't thinking along them terms, but Hell that's a good idea. Where do I sign up?
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:03 PM (evdj2)
I wasn't thinking along them terms, but Hell that's a good idea. Where do I sign up?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 16, 2015 12:04 PM (rDqRv)
312
Republicans, stabbing you in the back daily, reaching deeper into your wallet than the Democrats.
Who is John Galt?
Who is John Galt?
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at March 16, 2015 12:05 PM (74McK)
313
Posted by: RandomLurker at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (VPnld)
Well maybe your grandparents shouldnt be picking my pocket so that they can afford to go to better doctors because they didn't have the foresight to save money to pay for their own retirement.
How about that?
Because every fcuking cent they spend in DC is prefaced with "its for the children" or "for the poor minorities who through no fault of their own..." or "without spending this money grandma will be eating dog food..."
And I'm sick of it. I'm paying for all of that.
And it may not be a partisan issue, but it IS an ideological one.
Stop taking food off MY TABLE to give to others without my permission.
Well maybe your grandparents shouldnt be picking my pocket so that they can afford to go to better doctors because they didn't have the foresight to save money to pay for their own retirement.
How about that?
Because every fcuking cent they spend in DC is prefaced with "its for the children" or "for the poor minorities who through no fault of their own..." or "without spending this money grandma will be eating dog food..."
And I'm sick of it. I'm paying for all of that.
And it may not be a partisan issue, but it IS an ideological one.
Stop taking food off MY TABLE to give to others without my permission.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 12:05 PM (AkOaV)
314
My original statement was made within the hypothesis that all welfare was gone. The entire safety net. Under those conditions, there would be no incentive to come here for an easier life.
If my grandma had wheels she would be a minivan.
If my grandma had wheels she would be a minivan.
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:05 PM (evdj2)
315
Drew, I am regular, daily reader of the blog. I almost never comment, but I found your post particularly heartless and partisan.
My problem with your post is you are railing on the Republican leadership for being Dems for basically trying to preserve declining healthcare choices for the elderly.
From this post, you are putting partisanship so ahead of being educated
Posted by: RandomLurker
The preceding post was brought to you by the Congressional Internship Program at Georgetown University.
Go Bulldogs!
Drew, I am regular, daily reader of the blog. I almost never comment, but I found your post particularly heartless and partisan.
My problem with your post is you are railing on the Republican leadership for being Dems for basically trying to preserve declining healthcare choices for the elderly.
From this post, you are putting partisanship so ahead of being educated
Posted by: RandomLurker
The preceding post was brought to you by the Congressional Internship Program at Georgetown University.
Go Bulldogs!
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 16, 2015 12:05 PM (kdS6q)
316
Having coffee, perusing the news. It looks as though the "letter" Tom Cotton wrote wasn't really a letter sent to the mullahs. It was posted on a website. I wish it would have been an actual letter.
Posted by: Soona at March 16, 2015 12:05 PM (/HX7u)
317
I said this would happen on election day 2014. I was run out of town by
everyone here for being too negative and how we need to give the GOP a
chance.
***
Ha, I made the argument when Romney became the front runner for the 2012 nomination.
Look folks, in 2006 conservatives fought the Republicans on amnesty and then turned around and supported the most vocal pro-Amnesty Republican you could find in Juan McCain.
In 2010 conservatives ushered in a Republican house (and if not for IRS antics probably a Senate as well) to stop Obamacare...and then supported Mitt Romneycare.
The Republican leadership believes it can do whatever it wants and still count on most Republicans supporting it in the next election.
And they will continue to believe so until conservatives start defeating left leaning Republicans in a meaningful way a la Ace's suggestion of putting a knock off list...
everyone here for being too negative and how we need to give the GOP a
chance.
***
Ha, I made the argument when Romney became the front runner for the 2012 nomination.
Look folks, in 2006 conservatives fought the Republicans on amnesty and then turned around and supported the most vocal pro-Amnesty Republican you could find in Juan McCain.
In 2010 conservatives ushered in a Republican house (and if not for IRS antics probably a Senate as well) to stop Obamacare...and then supported Mitt Romneycare.
The Republican leadership believes it can do whatever it wants and still count on most Republicans supporting it in the next election.
And they will continue to believe so until conservatives start defeating left leaning Republicans in a meaningful way a la Ace's suggestion of putting a knock off list...
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:06 PM (78TbK)
318
"A 3rd party's power would be negative. "
I disagree. Let the chips fall and I think the democrat party would splinter into the eco-homo-fascist party, then there would be the sane democrats and the RINOs party, and the conservative party. As that stands right now it would be a pretty even split in the HOR. Then the conservatives have real power and would be king makers. Now we have no power.
As too the democrat win everything argument. I will bet everything I have that Obama gets more of his agenda passed in the next two years than he did in the last four.
You know I'm right.
I disagree. Let the chips fall and I think the democrat party would splinter into the eco-homo-fascist party, then there would be the sane democrats and the RINOs party, and the conservative party. As that stands right now it would be a pretty even split in the HOR. Then the conservatives have real power and would be king makers. Now we have no power.
As too the democrat win everything argument. I will bet everything I have that Obama gets more of his agenda passed in the next two years than he did in the last four.
You know I'm right.
Posted by: Jukin Former Republican at March 16, 2015 12:06 PM (WGm5T)
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 16, 2015 12:06 PM (j3OmN)
320
heh
Steve Sailer @Steve_Sailer
Ramzan Kadyrov, Putin's Head Chechen in Charge http://www.unz.com/isteve/ramzan-kadyrov-putins-head-chechen-in-charge/
Steve Sailer @Steve_Sailer
Ramzan Kadyrov, Putin's Head Chechen in Charge http://www.unz.com/isteve/ramzan-kadyrov-putins-head-chechen-in-charge/
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 16, 2015 12:06 PM (ZPrif)
321
My original statement was made within the hypothesis that all welfare was gone. The entire safety net. Under those conditions, there would be no incentive to come here for an easier life. A better life? Yes. But not a gravy train. But the whole thing got reduced to one statement. Which, taken out of context, sounds nuts.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
So all we need to do is get COD the witch back, and then we can have our chat? Cause we're going to be able to give the entire welfare monster the heave-ho?
"First, a miracle occurs". One heck of an opening.
Posted by: OneEyedJack
So all we need to do is get COD the witch back, and then we can have our chat? Cause we're going to be able to give the entire welfare monster the heave-ho?
"First, a miracle occurs". One heck of an opening.
Posted by: Blue Hen at March 16, 2015 12:07 PM (Spluw)
322
"The entire safety net."
Did you read the morning news dump? SS paid out millions to dead people, hundreds over the age of 110 when there are only 35 people in the world who are 112. The world sees our relative affluence and figures us for chumps.
Our "safety net" is teeming with fraud, waste and abuse. They see it as free money for the taking, and they're right. Politicians are giving it away to buy their own offices, and Boehner's is rumored to be the nicest one in the capitol.
Did you read the morning news dump? SS paid out millions to dead people, hundreds over the age of 110 when there are only 35 people in the world who are 112. The world sees our relative affluence and figures us for chumps.
Our "safety net" is teeming with fraud, waste and abuse. They see it as free money for the taking, and they're right. Politicians are giving it away to buy their own offices, and Boehner's is rumored to be the nicest one in the capitol.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 12:07 PM (Y92Nd)
323
Remember all the doctors that came out against Obaaamacare?
Remember all the doctors that came out against the Medicare cuts in Obaaamacare?
Remember all the doctors that came out against Obaaama saying Obaaamacare was necessary because the doctors were performing unnecessary surgeries to pad their bank accounts?
Neither do I.
Why are we saving these fuckers again?
And let us be brutally fucking honest here: This isn't to pay doctors: THIS IS TO PAY THE HOSPITALS!!!!
Remember all the doctors that came out against the Medicare cuts in Obaaamacare?
Remember all the doctors that came out against Obaaama saying Obaaamacare was necessary because the doctors were performing unnecessary surgeries to pad their bank accounts?
Neither do I.
Why are we saving these fuckers again?
And let us be brutally fucking honest here: This isn't to pay doctors: THIS IS TO PAY THE HOSPITALS!!!!
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 16, 2015 12:07 PM (ZvKdv)
324
Alright. Pretty picture up.
Posted by: HH at March 16, 2015 12:07 PM (Ce4DF)
325
but I found your post particularly heartless and partisan
Wow. I've rarely seen Drew receive such a nice compliment.
but I found your post particularly heartless and partisan
Wow. I've rarely seen Drew receive such a nice compliment.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 16, 2015 12:07 PM (SpnVI)
326
No, its because you are an unlikeable miserable worthless little shit.
Posted by: buzzion
I have a MooDoo Doll.
Every time he posts, I plunge another pin into its wittle skull.
No, its because you are an unlikeable miserable worthless little shit.
Posted by: buzzion
I have a MooDoo Doll.
Every time he posts, I plunge another pin into its wittle skull.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 16, 2015 12:08 PM (kdS6q)
327
Posted by: jwest at March 16, 2015 12:04 PM (9ZZd+)
Of course. That's why I laugh when I hear "The US spends 10 times more on its military than the Chinese" or whatever.
Yeah, our government spends 10 times more money on *everything* than any one else would. Hardly means we're getting more bang for our buck.
Somehow it costs nearly a trillion dollars to "fix the roads and bridges" across america. A TRILLION dollars! Thats way more than it cost to build the interstate highway system. But just to resurface that system costs $1 trillion, and obviously even that wasn't enough, since every day we hear about how we need to spend more on our "crumbling infrastructure."
Of course. That's why I laugh when I hear "The US spends 10 times more on its military than the Chinese" or whatever.
Yeah, our government spends 10 times more money on *everything* than any one else would. Hardly means we're getting more bang for our buck.
Somehow it costs nearly a trillion dollars to "fix the roads and bridges" across america. A TRILLION dollars! Thats way more than it cost to build the interstate highway system. But just to resurface that system costs $1 trillion, and obviously even that wasn't enough, since every day we hear about how we need to spend more on our "crumbling infrastructure."
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 12:08 PM (AkOaV)
328
Stop taking food off MY TABLE to give to others without my permission.
***
Unfortunately that is the POINT of the current federal government - to take from the productive class and give it to the governing class with however much in handouts are necessary to the dependent class to get them to support this crap.
***
Unfortunately that is the POINT of the current federal government - to take from the productive class and give it to the governing class with however much in handouts are necessary to the dependent class to get them to support this crap.
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:08 PM (78TbK)
329
Look folks, in 2006 conservatives fought the Republicans on amnesty and then turned around and supported the most vocal pro-Amnesty Republican you could find in Juan McCain.
In 2010 conservatives ushered in a Republican house (and if not for IRS antics probably a Senate as well) to stop Obamacare...and then supported Mitt Romneycare.
The Republican leadership believes it can do whatever it wants and still count on most Republicans supporting it in the next election.
And they will continue to believe so until conservatives start defeating left leaning Republicans in a meaningful way a la Ace's suggestion of putting a knock off list...
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:06 PM (78TbK)
THIS. It bears repeating.
In 2010 conservatives ushered in a Republican house (and if not for IRS antics probably a Senate as well) to stop Obamacare...and then supported Mitt Romneycare.
The Republican leadership believes it can do whatever it wants and still count on most Republicans supporting it in the next election.
And they will continue to believe so until conservatives start defeating left leaning Republicans in a meaningful way a la Ace's suggestion of putting a knock off list...
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:06 PM (78TbK)
THIS. It bears repeating.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 16, 2015 12:08 PM (Y92Nd)
330
Somehow it costs nearly a trillion dollars to "fix the roads and bridges" across america. A TRILLION dollars!
***
In WWII we were building a battleship a month. In 2015 it take longer and more people to add a lane to a highway.
Somehow it costs nearly a trillion dollars to "fix the roads and bridges" across america. A TRILLION dollars!
***
In WWII we were building a battleship a month. In 2015 it take longer and more people to add a lane to a highway.
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:09 PM (78TbK)
331
If my grandma had wheels she would be a minivan.
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:05 PM (evdj2)
Point taken. We can't get there from where we are, certainly not with the so-called two party system we currently have. So, then what?
Are we to continue to support the Republicans that not only don't stop the mad growth of government and debt, but help democrats achieve their goals?
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:05 PM (evdj2)
Point taken. We can't get there from where we are, certainly not with the so-called two party system we currently have. So, then what?
Are we to continue to support the Republicans that not only don't stop the mad growth of government and debt, but help democrats achieve their goals?
Posted by: OneEyedJack at March 16, 2015 12:09 PM (XmOA9)
332
Posted by: matthewjohn at March 16, 2015 12:02 PM (7pEow)
=======================
Maybe we should try to think of something else to call him....
=======================
Maybe we should try to think of something else to call him....
Posted by: MTF, Denier at March 16, 2015 12:09 PM (LISuA)
333
I've been thinking about which currency would replace the USD -- probably a market basket of currencies (that's under consideration right now)... BUT, what if there really was no reserve currency? Every country issued fiat currency based on the full faith and credit of their
governments (hey, works for the americans) and use oil or gold or whatever as a "reserve".
Tulip bulbs FTW!
governments (hey, works for the americans) and use oil or gold or whatever as a "reserve".
Tulip bulbs FTW!
Posted by: rickb223 at March 16, 2015 12:09 PM (DxXMy)
334
Price controls = shortages. Medicare is a great deal if you can find a doctor who takes it. If you cap/cut the Medicare reimbursement rates, even fewer doctors will accept Medicare patients. The workaround is to force doctors to accept Medicare patients as a condition of renewing their medical licenses. Which will lead to fewer doctors for everybody.
Which, if your goal is to destroy the middle class, should work out just fine.
Which, if your goal is to destroy the middle class, should work out just fine.
Posted by: OCBill at March 16, 2015 12:10 PM (F7PsT)
335
nood art
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 16, 2015 12:10 PM (wlDny)
336
End withholding! We can't win backing the Boulder up the mountain. Every program has a squeaky constituency except my kids and future grandkids.
Until everyone has to write a big check at the end of the fiscal year, then votes a week later, the leviathan will grow.
Until everyone has to write a big check at the end of the fiscal year, then votes a week later, the leviathan will grow.
Posted by: Jean at March 16, 2015 12:11 PM (ztOda)
Posted by: eleven at March 16, 2015 12:11 PM (ykfyK)
338
Tulip bulbs FTW!
More likely dope. F&F was touting the Mexican dope smokers desiring imported American Grown Weed for it's taste and potency.
USA! USA! USA!
More likely dope. F&F was touting the Mexican dope smokers desiring imported American Grown Weed for it's taste and potency.
USA! USA! USA!
Posted by: toby928(C) supports his own at March 16, 2015 12:12 PM (evdj2)
339
Nope not yet.
Posted by: eleven at March 16, 2015 12:12 PM (ykfyK)
340
@Posted by: RandomLurker at March 16, 2015 11:58 AM (VPnld)
I sympathize. It sucks that healthcare costs so much for everyone, including the elderly.
I disagree with you, however, that government spending does anything to solve or even help with the root problem.
You are correct. There are doctors who only work with the elderly and get paid by Medicaid and other programs. Why? Because that's where the money is. Yes, rates are lower ( by some measures) but they're consistent. The elderly go to doctors and use more medications than any other demographic, by necessity. These doctors take a percentage cut in rates in exchange for exponential volume.
The cost of healthcare is driven up by regulation (government), insurance (government), and legal liability (government). Government's is, effectively, siphoning up money from everyone and running it through a laundering scam of Medicaid and other programs.
Yes, caring for the elderly is a problem. Government is not the solution.
I sympathize. It sucks that healthcare costs so much for everyone, including the elderly.
I disagree with you, however, that government spending does anything to solve or even help with the root problem.
You are correct. There are doctors who only work with the elderly and get paid by Medicaid and other programs. Why? Because that's where the money is. Yes, rates are lower ( by some measures) but they're consistent. The elderly go to doctors and use more medications than any other demographic, by necessity. These doctors take a percentage cut in rates in exchange for exponential volume.
The cost of healthcare is driven up by regulation (government), insurance (government), and legal liability (government). Government's is, effectively, siphoning up money from everyone and running it through a laundering scam of Medicaid and other programs.
Yes, caring for the elderly is a problem. Government is not the solution.
Posted by: Damiano at March 16, 2015 12:13 PM (AEQXb)
341
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:09 PM (78TbK)
Yeah. Empire State Building went up in 15 months.
Nowadays, 15 months wouldn't even get you through the "impact studies" and wetland commission and zoning board and neighborhood public comment period.
Yeah. Empire State Building went up in 15 months.
Nowadays, 15 months wouldn't even get you through the "impact studies" and wetland commission and zoning board and neighborhood public comment period.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 12:13 PM (AkOaV)
342
The 11-4-2014 Election Night Edition Ace of Spades Overnight Thread.
http://tinyurl.com/k73dkwn
Good times. Didn't mean crap in the long run, but days of hope back then.
http://tinyurl.com/k73dkwn
Good times. Didn't mean crap in the long run, but days of hope back then.
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at March 16, 2015 12:15 PM (AC0lD)
343
330
Somehow it costs nearly a trillion dollars to "fix the roads and bridges" across america. A TRILLION dollars!
***
In WWII we were building a battleship a month. In 2015 it take longer and more people to add a lane to a highway.
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:09 PM (78TbK)
____________
During WW2 you didn't need 17 environmental studies before building a ship.
Hoover Dam would not be built today.
Somehow it costs nearly a trillion dollars to "fix the roads and bridges" across america. A TRILLION dollars!
***
In WWII we were building a battleship a month. In 2015 it take longer and more people to add a lane to a highway.
Posted by: 18-1 at March 16, 2015 12:09 PM (78TbK)
____________
During WW2 you didn't need 17 environmental studies before building a ship.
Hoover Dam would not be built today.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 16, 2015 12:17 PM (0LHZx)
344
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 16, 2015 12:17 PM (0LHZx)
No. In fact, in California, they have forgotten what their grandparents had to design, build and do just to bring water to their state. They think that water coming from the faucet is just a given.
So no new reservoirs, dams, water pipelines, etc., for over a generation and in the rainy years they decided to divert fresh water back in to the ocean to save a minnow.
Now look at 'em. Idiots.
No. In fact, in California, they have forgotten what their grandparents had to design, build and do just to bring water to their state. They think that water coming from the faucet is just a given.
So no new reservoirs, dams, water pipelines, etc., for over a generation and in the rainy years they decided to divert fresh water back in to the ocean to save a minnow.
Now look at 'em. Idiots.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 12:20 PM (AkOaV)
345
So, okay. A third party won't work. What about an insurrection?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Won't happen.
Folks don't want to sacrifice. Don't want to give up money. Time. Comforts. Family. Businesses. Don't want to risk. Nosirree.
We couldn't fight the Revolution now. Couldn't manage WWII. Not even sure we'd be able to defend ourselves effectively against an open and obvious military invasion in a declared war. We're beyond pathetic as a people and a nation.
Sure, there are folks that don't fit that, but enough? It's an open question, and I'm not liking the answer I see when I look at things now.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Won't happen.
Folks don't want to sacrifice. Don't want to give up money. Time. Comforts. Family. Businesses. Don't want to risk. Nosirree.
We couldn't fight the Revolution now. Couldn't manage WWII. Not even sure we'd be able to defend ourselves effectively against an open and obvious military invasion in a declared war. We're beyond pathetic as a people and a nation.
Sure, there are folks that don't fit that, but enough? It's an open question, and I'm not liking the answer I see when I look at things now.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at March 16, 2015 12:25 PM (DT3rQ)
346
I remember when people were telling me that the conservative House of Representatives would keep the progressive statist Romney in check if we would just get him over the finish line. Good times. Good times.
Posted by: gm at March 16, 2015 12:33 PM (/kBoL)
347
Anyone who continues to believe that the United States is a functioning republic is simply an idiot.
This house of cards is going to fall, and probably sooner rather than later.
I hope all thinking people are preparing as best they can.
This house of cards is going to fall, and probably sooner rather than later.
I hope all thinking people are preparing as best they can.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at March 16, 2015 12:34 PM (lG2E3)
348
>>>So no new reservoirs, dams, water pipelines, etc., for over a generation and in the rainy years they decided to divert fresh water back in to the ocean to save a minnow.
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 12:20 PM (AkOaV)>>>
Rainy season? WTF are you talking about?! They're even doing it in the drought!!!
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 16, 2015 12:20 PM (AkOaV)>>>
Rainy season? WTF are you talking about?! They're even doing it in the drought!!!
Posted by: gm at March 16, 2015 12:35 PM (/kBoL)
349
Wait... wait... did somebody just claim that you take on huge volumes of Medicare patients to make money?
Ummm.. no.
Medicare is break-even-to-slight-loss for most practices. It's also dangerous to run these people through in volume because they are elderly, and have complex medical issues. Those aren't five-minute encounters, and older patients like to chat/visit. Piss them off, and Medicare penalizes you for lower patient satisfaction.
Medicare also denies payment/reimbursement at a higher rate than private insurers.
ERs, for instance, can't turn anybody away. So you're just going to force them to see as many patients as you can stuff into the place, AND you're going to pay them less... just because?
Ummm.. no.
Medicare is break-even-to-slight-loss for most practices. It's also dangerous to run these people through in volume because they are elderly, and have complex medical issues. Those aren't five-minute encounters, and older patients like to chat/visit. Piss them off, and Medicare penalizes you for lower patient satisfaction.
Medicare also denies payment/reimbursement at a higher rate than private insurers.
ERs, for instance, can't turn anybody away. So you're just going to force them to see as many patients as you can stuff into the place, AND you're going to pay them less... just because?
Posted by: TheNewGuy at March 16, 2015 01:20 PM (mb9QQ)
350
I wonder if the Ferguson cop shooter was trying for a Kent State style response.
It worked in Kent State.
It worked in Kent State.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 16, 2015 01:25 PM (39g3+)
351
>> 349
Wait... wait... did somebody just claim that you take on huge
>> volumes of Medicare patients to make money?
>> Posted by: TheNewGuy at March 16, 2015 01:20 PM (mb9QQ)
I was going to post about that... how ridiculous, people are not an assembly line of widgets that you can crank out faster. You have to diagnose and treat, and treat people like people not cattle. You can't see 150 people a day, and expand staff and space exponentially to make up for lower reimbursement ... absurd!
I just got back to this comment section and read some responses to what I wrote.
A couple useless ad hominems, and the all too common people conflating Medicaid, the state run program for the poor, that was massively pushed by the Dems, pays less than it costs to provide services... a completely different program than federal Medicare.
So, yeah, winning Republican issue is to harm the over 65 population, a huge voting block, who PLANNED THEIR RETIREMENT AND HEALTHCARE ON MEDICARE BEING THERE.
Brilliant conservative strategy to cut off people's ability to live, versus all the other useless federal bullshit. Go after ethanol, global warming, IRS, anything. But people's lives? Why don't you just vote for Dems directly... FFS people...
Wait... wait... did somebody just claim that you take on huge
>> volumes of Medicare patients to make money?
>> Posted by: TheNewGuy at March 16, 2015 01:20 PM (mb9QQ)
I was going to post about that... how ridiculous, people are not an assembly line of widgets that you can crank out faster. You have to diagnose and treat, and treat people like people not cattle. You can't see 150 people a day, and expand staff and space exponentially to make up for lower reimbursement ... absurd!
I just got back to this comment section and read some responses to what I wrote.
A couple useless ad hominems, and the all too common people conflating Medicaid, the state run program for the poor, that was massively pushed by the Dems, pays less than it costs to provide services... a completely different program than federal Medicare.
So, yeah, winning Republican issue is to harm the over 65 population, a huge voting block, who PLANNED THEIR RETIREMENT AND HEALTHCARE ON MEDICARE BEING THERE.
Brilliant conservative strategy to cut off people's ability to live, versus all the other useless federal bullshit. Go after ethanol, global warming, IRS, anything. But people's lives? Why don't you just vote for Dems directly... FFS people...
Posted by: RandomLurker at March 16, 2015 01:32 PM (VPnld)
352
Don't know about other docs around the country, but my wife's salary has been decreasing since she started practicing back in 2006, despite seeing more patients, working more hours on admin and being a "top" producer and highest rated of her specialty in her clinic... Perhaps this is the reason so many doctors have fled medicine or are making plans to do so. Talk about a coming clusterfcuk...
Posted by: okieinoregon at March 16, 2015 03:42 PM (StfVk)
353
@351 Random lurker.
That's not a bug, it's a feature.
They want all of us older folks to die because we vote "tea Party" instead of RINO.
That's not a bug, it's a feature.
They want all of us older folks to die because we vote "tea Party" instead of RINO.
Posted by: The Walking Dude at March 16, 2015 04:58 PM (cCxiu)
354
"Democratic Controlled House Of Representatives ..."
Every single article on the House needs to start this way.
Every single article on the House needs to start this way.
Posted by: Agent J at March 16, 2015 05:19 PM (9Mtv3)
355
This post needs a correction, and if someone pointed it out earlier I wouldn't know - I'm not going through all 353 comments.
Well, it's a problem that needs "fixing" because it cuts spending. That's the only kind of "problem" DC ever tries to fix.
Back in the 90s the GOP Congress set up caps on reimbursement rates doctors could charge Medicare. This seemed like a fun idea because at the time rates were no where near the cap. Well, early in the 2000s the rates when up and the caps were reached. Their bluff called, Congress promptly folded and passed the first of 17 "doc-fixes" to ensure the spice, er, money flowed
The SGR "Doc Fix" doesn't depend on the rates; the payment rates to doctors have seen minimal (0-1%) increases annually. And then only because they've postponed the rate cuts each year as part of the ongoing annual budget negotiations.
But global Medicare spending, in total, has been growing faster than the "sustainable growth rate" (SGR) predicted. As a result, in order to get back in total spending to what SGR predicted would require cutting payment rates for services by about 30% at this point. And when Medicare cuts rates every insurer that ties their payments to Medicare levels will cut their payments also.
No MD in America will be able to sustain that. They'd go out of business, and quickly. That's why they're fixing this. They're not increasing payment rates. They are, instead, preventing them from being cut so severely that physician practices go broke.
Well, it's a problem that needs "fixing" because it cuts spending. That's the only kind of "problem" DC ever tries to fix.
Back in the 90s the GOP Congress set up caps on reimbursement rates doctors could charge Medicare. This seemed like a fun idea because at the time rates were no where near the cap. Well, early in the 2000s the rates when up and the caps were reached. Their bluff called, Congress promptly folded and passed the first of 17 "doc-fixes" to ensure the spice, er, money flowed
The SGR "Doc Fix" doesn't depend on the rates; the payment rates to doctors have seen minimal (0-1%) increases annually. And then only because they've postponed the rate cuts each year as part of the ongoing annual budget negotiations.
But global Medicare spending, in total, has been growing faster than the "sustainable growth rate" (SGR) predicted. As a result, in order to get back in total spending to what SGR predicted would require cutting payment rates for services by about 30% at this point. And when Medicare cuts rates every insurer that ties their payments to Medicare levels will cut their payments also.
No MD in America will be able to sustain that. They'd go out of business, and quickly. That's why they're fixing this. They're not increasing payment rates. They are, instead, preventing them from being cut so severely that physician practices go broke.
Posted by: Giacomo at March 16, 2015 05:25 PM (p8tVb)
356
My bad, tried to blockquote and screwed it up. but you get the idea - the first sentence and last three paragraphs are mine.
Posted by: Giacomo at March 16, 2015 05:27 PM (p8tVb)
357
Heh. The reason that they want to do the doctor fix is that if
they don't, nobody will treat Medicare patients, because nobody can
afford to.
It's easy to say "let's throw all the Medicare
patients under the bus and let them die," I guess. But don't pretend
that's not what you are advocating.
It's easy to say "let's have
unregulated health care because it will be so much cheaper," but that's
not ever going to happen, even in the most libertarian government
electable, and backing out of things will take time.
The free market may mean that you don't subsidize health care. It also means that docs don't have to work for free.
But, hey. Let 'em die. And, when *you* turn 65, you can die, too.
I didn't know that when I signed on to the Tea Party, I was signing on to recreate Logan's Run.
they don't, nobody will treat Medicare patients, because nobody can
afford to.
It's easy to say "let's throw all the Medicare
patients under the bus and let them die," I guess. But don't pretend
that's not what you are advocating.
It's easy to say "let's have
unregulated health care because it will be so much cheaper," but that's
not ever going to happen, even in the most libertarian government
electable, and backing out of things will take time.
The free market may mean that you don't subsidize health care. It also means that docs don't have to work for free.
But, hey. Let 'em die. And, when *you* turn 65, you can die, too.
I didn't know that when I signed on to the Tea Party, I was signing on to recreate Logan's Run.
Posted by: billo at March 16, 2015 07:08 PM (YRFqi)
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