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The Myth Of The "Moderate Syrian Opposition"
Yesterday I compared the idea of "moderate Syrian opposition" to “Unicorns and friendly pixies” in that neither one exists in the real world. Unfortunately, belief in the mythical "moderate Syrian opposition" has real world consequences and could lead to us trying to topple the Assad regime.
Well, don't take my word for what a fairy tale this is, listen to former US Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford's stunning take on the Syrian opposition.In recent weeks, however, Ford, the former U.S. ambassador to Syria who made news when he left government service a year ago with an angry critique of Obama administration policy, has dropped his call to provide weapons to the rebels. Instead, he’s become increasingly critical of them as disjointed and untrustworthy because they collaborate with jihadists. ... Ford today sounds like a different person from the optimist who only six months ago wrote an essay in Foreign Policy that began: “Don’t believe everything you read in the media: The moderate rebels of Syria are not finished. They have gained ground in different parts of the country and have broken publicly with both the al Qaida affiliate operating there and the jihadists of the Islamic State.” Now, however, on panels and in speeches, Ford has accused the rebels of collaborating with the Nusra Front, the al Qaida affiliate in Syria that the U.S. declared a terrorist organization more than two years ago. He says opposition infighting has worsened and he laments the fact that extremist groups now rule in most territories outside the Syrian regime’s control. Ford said part of the problem was that too many rebels – and their patrons in Turkey and Qatar – insisted that Nusra was a homegrown, anti-Assad force when in fact it was an al Qaida affiliate whose ideology was virtually indistinguishable from the Islamic State’s. The Obama administration already has suffered a string of embarrassments involving supplies it’s donated to the rebels ending up in the hands of U.S.-designated terrorist groups. “Nusra Front is just as dangerous, and yet they keep pretending they’re nice guys, they’re Syrians,” Ford said. “The second problem is, some of our stuff has leaked to them.”Ford still thinks it's possible to topple the Assad regime with either US or a coalition of regional forces but to him the ad-hoc rebel model we are currently employing is dead. The interventionists don't want to talk about this because it's a key flaw in their belief about the healing power of American action in the Mideast...Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Libya have shown there are no real good guys to turn these places over to. This is important stuff to keep in mind as we get more directly involved in the fight against ISIS. That fight simply can't be disconnected from what happens in Syria. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool. So, if we go after ISIS, what's our plan for Assad? Do we work with the Devil or try and replace him even if it means we get stuck running Hell for years on end? We better have an answer to that before we send in thousands of American combat troops.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 19, 2015 08:56 AM (5eJEm)
Obama has quadrupled the # of visas.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 19, 2015 08:59 AM (WvpaS)
Devil or try and replace him even if it means we get stuck running Hell
for years on end?"
Bad and worse.
Although, as we've seen with Libya, Egypt, and, Iraq, taking down the strong-man who has managed to keep a lid on the madder elements in their realm has not proven so productive.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 19, 2015 08:59 AM (5eJEm)
Posted by: HH at February 19, 2015 08:59 AM (Ce4DF)
Posted by: McCool at February 19, 2015 09:00 AM (TQxRy)
I was just thinking yesterday about the posts here celebrating Kaddafi's fall. Posted by Drewm, I believe.
I recall a couple of "Rebels Take Tripoli!" or something like that. I wonder if you have any second thoughts now about Quaddafi.
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:00 AM (AmDwF)
.
.
.And this is why nothing we do will work in the Middle East. We constantly try and prop up the "Nice Guy". People in the ME do not respect or respond to nice guys. They need brutal dictators to rule them as they have for the past 700 years. It is the only thing that works there. Sad but true.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at February 19, 2015 09:02 AM (4oSLk)
Posted by: The Comedy Team of Psaki and Harf at February 19, 2015 09:02 AM (fLKzW)
1. Leave Assad alone.
2. Do not get involved with Ukraine.
3. Support the shit outta Egypt -- give them anything they want.
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:02 AM (AmDwF)
I've got this, Moose.
Posted by: Crowley at February 19, 2015 09:02 AM (2Ojst)
Removing him will only add to the chaos.
Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at February 19, 2015 09:02 AM (hgHmY)
For one thing, isn't his son the kid that mocked Obama on FB a while back?
The laughs were worth giving the dad a pass, imo.
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:03 AM (cbfNE)
Ah, yes, the "Tweet-and-Selfie" school of foreign relations and strategic thinking.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 19, 2015 09:04 AM (5eJEm)
Posted by: J. Edgar Hoover at February 19, 2015 09:04 AM (e8kgV)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 09:05 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Karen Ashley at February 19, 2015 09:05 AM (e8kgV)
Posted by: J. Edgar Hoover at February 19, 2015 09:04 AM (e8kgV)
Barry's played a lot of holes.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:06 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:06 AM (rDqRv)
head choppers, people cooks, local 633 just cannot find any worker so we must bring those in that aren't so squeamish.
Posted by: comrade willow at February 19, 2015 09:06 AM (nqBYe)
If they cash my checks, they're not a myth, are they? There's your proof!
Posted by: Barack Almighty at February 19, 2015 09:07 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Karen Ashley at February 19, 2015 09:05 AM (e8kgV)
When you surround yourself with drooling retards, being the smartest man in the room isn't that hard to achieve.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:07 AM (2Ojst)
The best thing for any of these countries is a ruthless strongman...like Saddam, or the Shah, or Assad.
Posted by: Null at February 19, 2015 09:07 AM (xjpRj)
Posted by: jmel at February 19, 2015 09:07 AM (cfFqn)
Posted by: Karen Ashley at February 19, 2015 09:07 AM (e8kgV)
"He's very moderate compared to Josef Stalin" isn't an endorsement.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 19, 2015 09:07 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Martin Adamson at February 19, 2015 09:08 AM (xOZKr)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey at February 19, 2015 09:08 AM (fLKzW)
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:08 AM (cbfNE)
I have no doubt whatsoever that obama knows the "rebels" are evil radicals who are the militant wing of his pals in the Muslim Brotherhood.
What bothers me is how the CIA and Pentagon are going along with obama on all this.
But then I remind myself that obama and jarret are smart and the first thing they did was purge the department and replace the key people with loyal devotees.
We have a rotten-to-the-core CIA, FBI, and Pentagon, etc. And I don't know if we'll ever correct that part of obama's legacy in time.
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:09 AM (AmDwF)
You got a link sport?
No?
Ok, I'll find you one.... http://minx.cc:1080/?post=320425
I really celebrated, huh?
"Personally, I think this is a big "Meh".
Yes, it's great if you are a Libyan and are tired of living in what should be a very rich country but one that has been run as the personal playground of a madman for 42 years. It's still more likely than not that it all ends in tears but like everyone else, Libyans deserve a shot at liberty and they got it the old fashion way...they earned it in battle.
And yes, from the Berlin disco bombing to Pan-Am 103, America had some unfinished business with Quadaffi. Good for Obama for playing a part in getting in on the action.
Beyond that..meh."
Posted by: DrewM. at February 19, 2015 09:09 AM (8dNrT)
Last ones alive are the winners then we nuke them. Problem solved. Perhaps a stray nuke over that rock in Mecca. The only things these people respond to is violence and who is the top dog. They are feral vicious mutts. And our president and his ilk are little worthless lap/yap dogs.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:09 AM (/GgDU)
Where is the Muslim Brotherhood in all of this? Find out what they want and you'll know Obama's direction.
Posted by: t-bird at February 19, 2015 09:09 AM (FcR7P)
Drew, you're confusing those of us who do not wish to bow daily towards the black rock with those who believe that they can "tweak" or "nudge" anyone, anytime, anywhere.
I support killing ISIS troops. I do not care who "replaces" the heads of those various tribes and theologies.
I really can't comprehend anyone still stuck on statecraft in the Levant. The Peace ofWestphalia is long over.
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 09:09 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: toprunner at February 19, 2015 09:09 AM (7u7u7)
Posted by: Fritz at February 19, 2015 09:10 AM (UzPAd)
Posted by: Feh at February 19, 2015 09:10 AM (g/zj9)
Posted by: Lizzy at February 19, 2015 09:10 AM (WvpaS)
they share so much in common with Turkey anyway
and then get Turkey and Jordan to fight ISIS and Al Nusra Front
and create a nice counter force to Iran
otherwise Iran will rush in and take it all anyway
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:11 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: RioBravo at February 19, 2015 09:11 AM (z27Ny)
Really? So you made 0 posts about the latest reports about the "rebels" advancing in key Libyan cities?
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:11 AM (AmDwF)
If a guy tries to mug me and I shoot him, it doesn't mean that I must worry about who is going to feed his kid.
So we kill ISIS. If another thug comes along to fill the vacuum and he's just as bad, we kill him too. And so on. At some point they will listen. The West tried to treat the ME regimes as adults under western liberal values, but those are values they do not share. So we have to go back to basics.
Posted by: @JohnTant at February 19, 2015 09:11 AM (PFy0L)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:11 AM (Zu3d9)
Or do we simply sit back and watch as entire peoples are systematically exterminated, Western states (including our own) are attacked, civilians slaughtered and our way of life generally destroyed?
Is that a better solution?
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 09:11 AM (fwARV)
One way: launching continuous bombing along the Syria/Iraq border will make resupply difficult for ISIS forces in northern Iraq (most are in Syria). Once you have split ISIS, even temporarily, I think a two pronged operation (Kurds in the north, Americans from the south) works just fine. It would take enormous resources, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything more than the President's oft-stated goal of "degrading" ISIS capabilities without getting involved in the Assad vs. Syria fight, but it could be done. Go in, smack them hard, and leave (a la GHW Bush).
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:12 AM (LISuA)
I like that analogy. A lot.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:12 AM (2Ojst)
AtC's step ladder is smarter than this asshat.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 09:12 AM (C278+)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:12 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Feh at February 19, 2015 09:12 AM (g/zj9)
Beyond that..meh."
Posted by: DrewM. at February 19, 2015 09:09 AM (8dNrT)
Yeah, thank God Obama freed Libya up for ISIS. That worked out.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 09:12 AM (fwARV)
Posted by: blaster at February 19, 2015 09:13 AM (Rx8ML)
Posted by: Lizzy at February 19, 2015 09:10 AM (WvpaS)
Gives remarks at CVES summit.
Flies to Chicago.
Flies back the Whitehouse.
I'd say TFG has 'doing nothing' down pat.
Posted by: RWC - Aragont son of Arathont at February 19, 2015 09:13 AM (fWAjv)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 09:13 AM (C278+)
Posted by: NCKate at February 19, 2015 09:13 AM (IQdyy)
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:08 AM (cbfNE)
he is no friend of Israel, but he is smart enough to know that directly attacking Israel or allowing the Terrorist groups he let's homestead in his country to do to much damamge to Israel would bring the wrath of Israel down on him and put his rule in doubt. So he was always a "Reliable" partner for Israel who mostly kept his word and when Israel has had to smack him to remind him, he has taken and shut up for the most part
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:13 AM (rDqRv)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 09:14 AM (IBmPN)
Yeah, thank God Obama freed Libya up for ISIS. That worked out.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 09:12 AM (
I'm not so sure about that.
Posted by: Sarcastic Ambassador Stevens
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:14 AM (/GgDU)
http://tinyurl.com/nx47hv4
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (DXzRD)
Posted by: Feh at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (g/zj9)
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (FMbng)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 09:14 AM (IBmPN)
Well, sir, we usually ride them into town for hookers.
/just the punchline
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (2Ojst)
There is this tradition of civilian control of these agencies. I would prefer them going along with unwise policies than leading a revolt. Nothing good ever comes from the latter.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: fairweatherbill the car bomber at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (YMAom)
I'd say TFG has 'doing nothing' down pat.
Posted by: RWC - Aragont son of Arathont at February 19, 2015 09:13 AM
Hey Baby, Don't do stupid shit is my credo.
Posted by: Fredo I
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (/GgDU)
-------
If one of our ambassadors is going to be killed and butt banged it might as well be one of the gay ones.
Posted by: Dept. of State at February 19, 2015 09:16 AM (z27Ny)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 19, 2015 09:15 AM (hLRSq
Types,
deletes,
types,
deletes some more F*CK IT
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:16 AM (/GgDU)
there is no Syria anymore
it will become the ISIS or Iran
so I think a third way, parting it between Turkey and Jordan and having them fight ISIS with ground troops and our help is a reality based solution
as for the Kurds
they would prefer a Turkish government to a ISIS one
frankly they prefer their own government in northern Iraq which they more or less have and will again once ISIS is disposed of
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:17 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey at February 19, 2015 09:17 AM (fLKzW)
obama is evil, though. I do not type those words lightly.
Evil prevails when good men do nothing.
For fuck's sake, do we even have half-decent men left in obama's admin?
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:18 AM (AmDwF)
Yep, just a variation of his IL state senate days where he liked to vote "present." He's made a career out of saying vague things and doing nothing.
He's had to re-brand it for his presidency:
1st - Leading from behind
2nd - Don't do stupid shit
3rd - Just muscular enough to not be mocked
4th - Strategic patience
Reality: Cowardly intransigence.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 19, 2015 09:18 AM (WvpaS)
Posted by: Picric at February 19, 2015 09:18 AM (QnQ+g)
We dare not turn isolationist. We must stand athwart history and shout "To the quicksand!"
Posted by: RioBravo at February 19, 2015 09:11 AM (z27Ny)"
Yesterday we stood at the edge of the precipice. Today we have taken a bold step forward!
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 19, 2015 09:19 AM (KDbAT)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey at February 19, 2015 09:17 AM (fLKzW)
----
Maybe the definition of "real humans" has been unwisely revised along the way.
Posted by: RioBravo at February 19, 2015 09:19 AM (z27Ny)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:20 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: WhiteHouse.gov at February 19, 2015 09:21 AM (7u7u7)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:21 AM (zOTsN)
deletes,
types,
deletes some more F*CK IT
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:16 AM (/GgDU)
Yeah. I agree.
I still think there are worse things than those agencies going along with unwise policies. I really do not want to see what is lurking behind the door labeled "They revolt".
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 19, 2015 09:21 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 09:21 AM (C278+)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:21 AM (zOTsN)
Totes different.
Posted by: Landofskybluewater at February 19, 2015 09:21 AM (ifF3K)
Posted by: Fritz at February 19, 2015 09:22 AM (UzPAd)
Oh, right, we can't do anything as Obama runs the executive branch and we are stuck with sucky decision for the next two years.
My suggestion, since Obama created this mess with his stupid "Arab Spring" actions, which was really just a campaign slogan, is just let Obama be Obama and screw things up even more. Let him come up with a jobs program for the Middle East. Every action he does makes him look more like an idiot.
At this point the 52% needs to hit rock bottom before it can change. The 52% really need to come to conclusion "Voting for Obama was the stupidest thing I ever did."
Posted by: Ken at February 19, 2015 09:22 AM (LXJ1e)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 09:23 AM (IBmPN)
I happened to work with a Lebanese Christian last night who hates obama and muslims.
When Assad, who he also hates, came up, he said muslims are like a spring, (he put his foot down on the ground), you step on the spring and keep it down because once you let off your foot, the spring will fly up and hit you in the face. Assad keeps his foot on that spring.
Crude analogy, but apt.
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:23 AM (AmDwF)
he is weak and at best will be picked off by Iran eventually
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:20 AM
Syria is a lose-lose situation. Actually all of those f*cking tribal nations are. The best we can do is stay out of the way unless they seek to destroy us or our allies.
Qaddafi as hideous as he was has been replaced by something much worse. God only knows what will happen when Aasad is toppled. We live in interesting times.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:24 AM (/GgDU)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:24 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Zombie Osama bin Laden at February 19, 2015 09:24 AM (lG2E3)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 09:25 AM (C278+)
No.
No more American lives should be lost to protect the myth of the Arab polity.
Allow this to shake out while containing it with air power and resupply.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:25 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Picric at February 19, 2015 09:25 AM (QnQ+g)
I saw Air Resupply open for...
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:26 AM (AmDwF)
Posted by: lowandslow at February 19, 2015 09:27 AM (+ebSh)
Posted by: B.H. Obama, Interview, Jan. 2031 at February 19, 2015 09:27 AM (7u7u7)
It seems the only "good guys" in the whole region are people da Zero just doesn't like very much. That tells you much about da Zero.
Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2015 09:27 AM (xWW96)
US or a coalition of regional forces but to him the ad-hoc rebel model
we are currently employing is dead.
So now this SUPER-FVCKING GENIUS has figured out that he was SUPER-FVCKING WRONG about the Syrian rebels?
And NOW he wants to go in and do regime-change, BUSH-STYLE???
Jesus H. Christ.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at February 19, 2015 09:27 AM (wtvvX)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:28 AM (Z5J3g)
Anyway, in about 12 weeks we'll be rooting for Ukraine when they are pushed into a futile and bloody war with Russia.
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:28 AM (AmDwF)
Posted by: Lauren at February 19, 2015 09:28 AM (MYCIw)
who talked about nation building? not me
let Turkey and Jordan deal with that
I am talking about talking them into boot on the ground with the promise of land
Turkey has plenty of Tanks, plenty of air, and a very big army
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:28 AM (zOTsN)
Assad ain't good either and is a puppet of Iran.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:29 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:26 AM (AmDwF)
I'm all out of bombs,And tactical warheads.....
Posted by: Tex Lovera at February 19, 2015 09:29 AM (wtvvX)
He was asked which side should we wish to win and if we should we support that side. Kissinger compared the war to a fight between a rat and a snake and we should wish that they both lose.
When asked for the best possible outcome, Kissinger said that the best result the US could hope for would be a long and bloody war that ends in a stalemate. It seems to me that this is a similar situation.
Who should we support and supply with arms? Israel and the Kurds. We might want to provide support to both sides in the fight between Assad and the various rebel groups in order to keep the war going as long as possible. We might even want to make it possible for for Jihadi wannabes to get to the area in order to tidy up and rid ourselves of bloodthirsty dick heads.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 19, 2015 09:29 AM (KDbAT)
No.
No more American lives should be lost to protect the myth of the Arab polity-CBD
Agreed. If you are going to have ground troops over there it better be after we have bombed them back to the pre-stone age and we have colonized them.
Too many damn tribes and factions over there.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:29 AM (/GgDU)
Sherry hasn't been on in weeks, I don't think. I know I had her email addr but can't seem to find it. Anyone else happen to have it? Or, Sherry, if you're lurking: Hi!
Posted by: mindful webworker - click me & win! at February 19, 2015 09:30 AM (MZVOx)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:30 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Lauren at February 19, 2015 09:28 AM (MYCI
Probably give them a State Dinner and an Embassy
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:31 AM (/GgDU)
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:28 AM (AmDwF)
So you want us rooting for Russia, the country that is pushing Ukraine into war? Why would we be rooting for Putin's Russia?
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 19, 2015 09:31 AM (hLRSq)
Well, he admitted that he was wrong. That makes him better than anyone else to come out of the current administration.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:31 AM (Zu3d9)
Question: Anyone know why ISIS and Al Qaeda use orange jumpsuits for their victims?
My only best guess is that they believe it creates the appearance of them being official prisoners, which reinforces the notion that ISIS is an official governing body.
Anyone else know?
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:31 AM (AmDwF)
In other words, Syria's not the problem, Obama is.
Posted by: Minuteman at February 19, 2015 09:32 AM (92wtL)
Posted by: Bockscar at February 19, 2015 09:32 AM (eTY+n)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:32 AM (zOTsN)
The Baltic states are next up for the futile and bloody war with Russia, and then the counties eastward.
Meanwhile Russia has its fingers in the pie in Iran, Syria, and Egypt now, so the situation's bigger than just the islamists. We have the main geopolitical rival in the region playing silly buggers with us, and Obama's silly bugger enough to play along with Putin.
Posted by: lurkingestluker at February 19, 2015 09:32 AM (k8xvx)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 09:32 AM (659DL)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (rDqRv)
So you want us rooting for Russia, the country that is pushing Ukraine into war? Why would we be rooting for Putin's Russia?
Is that what I want? Hmm, interesting conclusion from what I wrote.
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (AmDwF)
Posted by: Lauren at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (MYCIw)
The problem with the Turks is they would just as soon let ISIS destroy the Kurds then deal with ISIS. Truks and Kurds have been killing each other for centuries. Look at what happen at Kobana (sp?). The Turks sat on the hill roasting marshmallows while ISIS butchered Kurks.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (C278+)
He goes further and says that Marie (and Americans generally) have a hard time understanding how important these life and death struggles over religion or worthless territory are to the denizens of these benighted places:
When people have been comfortable long enough, they find it impossible to imagine a moral and political universe in which more is at stake than comfort, whether economic or social.
http://bit.ly/1z2fUrQ
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (LISuA)
He seems to be the only good guy out there.
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (cbfNE)
Posted by: Lauren at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (MYCIw)
Posted by: lowandslow at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (+ebSh)
The problem with allowing wannabe jihadist dickheads into the region is that they eventually go back home with fighting skills and heads full of even more Islamic blather.
Not a good idea.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (DT3rQ)
Russia was provoked into this conflict when we supported the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. Soros open society was behind the coup. The new regime in Kiev is full of Soros cronies. Russia is defending its interest.
If Russia or China overthrew the government of Canada or Mexico, would you expect the US to do nothing?
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (kff5f)
Yep, that "running Hell" worked so well in Iraq.
Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at February 19, 2015 09:35 AM (Dq8Uc)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:35 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (AmDwF)
I couldn't figure out what you wanted from what you wrote. Perhaps you could elaborate?
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 19, 2015 09:35 AM (hLRSq)
Smart Military/History Commenters, are there any parallels between Ukraine and Viet Nam?
I mean, we're not really fighting a proxy war with Russia by arming Ukraine, but...
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:35 AM (AmDwF)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:35 AM (zOTsN)
>>>>So, if we go after ISIS, what's our plan for Assad? Do we work with the Devil or try and replace him even if it means we get stuck running Hell for years on end?
1 Sure I wish the ME wasn't what it is but rebuilding it from the ground up is a pipe dream, long held to be sure.
2 Who says we have to do it?
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 09:35 AM (3ZtZW)
My only best guess is that they believe it creates the appearance of them being official prisoners, which reinforces the notion that ISIS is an official governing body.
----
I think it's a passive aggressive thing having to do with Gitmo.
Posted by: @JohnTant at February 19, 2015 09:35 AM (PFy0L)
Most Americans do not care about Muslims.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (Z5J3g)
Question: Anyone know why ISIS and Al Qaeda use orange jumpsuits for their victims?
Gitmo reference.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, let all the children boogie at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (JtwS4)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (rDqRv)
I don't want to get involved with Ukraine because I think it's much worse for them to be pushed into a war they cannot win.
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (AmDwF)
This.
Good for Obama following along behind the Euro powers and a bullshit no-fly order?
You're cheering on exactly what you say you DON'T want us to do elsewhere. Stick our dicks in, withdraw and watch the ensuing hilarity.
Obersvers on the ground said that the 'rebels' were keystone cops and were apt to fight each other. Airstrikes and targeting are what toppled kadafi. And the rebels started butchering blacks the first week. We shouldn't have done it.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (Spluw)
Question: Anyone know why ISIS and Al Qaeda use orange jumpsuits for their victims?
My only best guess is that they believe it creates the appearance of them being official prisoners, which reinforces the notion that ISIS is an official governing body.
Anyone else know?
Posted by: Soothsayer, Lambda Lambda Lambda at February 19, 2015
Got a good deal when US municipalities switched out prisoner outfits?
Also if a prisoner escapes a blaze orange outfit over there kind of sticks out.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:37 AM (/GgDU)
The EU and US are using Nazi mercenaries to fight the Russians.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:37 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Lauren at February 19, 2015 09:33 AM (MYCIw)
Abhorrent!
Posted by: Nature at February 19, 2015 09:37 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Lauren at February 19, 2015 09:37 AM (MYCIw)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 19, 2015 09:37 AM (0GF2j)
His "negotiations" with Iran are nothing short of him handing them a nuclear weapon. Hell, they might get him to agree to doing that.
Posted by: Landofskybluewater at February 19, 2015 09:37 AM (ifF3K)
Barky the bear's bowels are loose and he's shitting all over the map.
And the GOPe is unwilling to roll up a newspaper and give him the dozen or so whacks across the snout that he has been begging for these past six years.
But Jebbie and love will solve all problems for us in 2016!
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (bWFHa)
>>>Smart Military/History Commenters, are there any parallels between Ukraine and Viet Nam?
I'd say No.
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: comrade willow at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (nqBYe)
In the Plymouth House of Corrections good prisoners get green jumpsuits and bad prisoners get orange jumpsuits.
Don't ask how I know.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, let all the children boogie at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (JtwS4)
Depends on what you mean.
Rhetorically, we've already demolished all of their myths. We have shown, logically and practically, that their worldview is fundamentally flawed.
On the other hand, *convincing them* that their myths have been demolished... well, they've shown themselves to be incredibly stubborn in that regard.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (kff5f)
Its none of our business and we should not be supporting Soros backed plans.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (zOTsN)
Most Americans do not care about Muslims.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (Z5J3g)
Even assuming that's true, what's your point?
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 19, 2015 09:37 AM (0GF2j)
Yup, but with Fredo in the White House, they trust Iran more than Israel. Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (rDqRv)
Posted by: Brian Williams Truth Bomber at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (WGm5T)
Another brilliant move by the chuckleheads at State, let's rile up the opposition so they overthrow the government and leave another power vacuum Russia can fill.
Posted by: lowandslow at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (+ebSh)
Most Americans do not care about Muslims.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (Z5J3g
Yes.
Your next point please.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (/GgDU)
Moderates work within the system of government they live under, and find compromise to live in peace with their neighbors. Once the shooting starts, moderates leave, or abandon moderation in a fight for survival.
Posted by: Phillipi Tesphousterous at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (xpUq/)
Posted by: Golfman in NC at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (iVjJr)
Posted by: Matt
What utter shit.
The poor Putin (former KGB man) was forced by the Ukraine? Into pawning off Russian officers as seperatists? Shooting down airliners? Grabbing the Crimea?
What next? Lithuania is flexing its muscles now? And lemme guess; Russia is the plucky underdog.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (Spluw)
Bingo!
The idea that Turkey is an ally is laughable. They are tacitly supporting ISIS because they hate the Kurds and want them dead, and that is exactly what Turkey wants too.
Brilliant fcuking idea to let them into NATO.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (Zu3d9)
--
To be fair, Hillary was very much Obama's handmaiden in Libya. She ran around Europe nagging NATO allies into supporting the ouster of Quackdaffy.
Probably Huma convinced her it would be her foreign policy success to brag about in 2016.
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (cbfNE)
He goes further and says that Marie (and Americans generally) have a hard time understanding how important these life and death struggles over religion or worthless territory are to the denizens of these benighted places:
Obvious solution? Let's make life harder, much harder, for these twats.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (IBmPN)
ISIS is enemies with Iran.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: rickl at February 19, 2015 09:40 AM (zoehZ)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:36 AM (Z5J3g)
Most Americans don't seem to care about America
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:40 AM (rDqRv)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (kff5f)
=====================
I think you have to defend the Kurds; they've done too much good for us over the last thirty years to abandon to ISIS. Moreover, its the Kurds who keep Turkey in line, and whose mere existence is also a threat to Iran.
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (LISuA)
Hmmm....freeing the ME from despots?
I think it was called The Crusades.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (cbfNE)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (0GF2j)
Brilliant fcuking idea to let them into NATO.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:3
That sarcasm needs a little something......not sure what.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (/GgDU)
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (LISuA)
I think you overstate the Kurds' utility, but nevertheless we're kind of the ones who got them slaughtered by Saddam, so we probably owe them something.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:42 AM (kff5f)
I agree. Arm them and support them with air power.
But no more American troops.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:42 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:42 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:41 AM (cbfN
We disagree.
Posted by: Organizers of the Munich Olympics
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:42 AM (/GgDU)
the choice is currently Iran or ISIS
Assad will not survive this
wouldn't it be better to have a third way
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:42 AM (zOTsN)
=====================
ISIS (according to the Atlantic article) sees itself conquering Istanbul in the not-too-distant future. How does that make them Turkey's allies?
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (LISuA)
Posted by: Matt
Hey, it sucks at our age, but in this economy you take the jobs you can get.
--Oberst Herman Horscht, Prunewaffe, age 97
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (DT3rQ)
Posted by: ThunderB, Shapeshifter at February 19, 2015 09:42 AM (zOTsN)
Unfortunately, teh Won shat the bed in regard to Iraq.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (Z5J3g)
Sometimes?
I against my brother, my brothers and I against my cousins, then my cousins and I against strangers
Iran is perfectly content to let ISIS bleed the West and the Infidels
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (rDqRv)
Posted by: Brian Williams Truth Bomber at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (WGm5T)
Should Russia allow an enemy state on its borders? Should they just sit by and allow Soros to put cronies into the new regime? Should Russia tolerate Neo Nazis openly operating in an neighboring nation?
Putin called Soros and the EU's bluff and ruined their plans in the Ukraine.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:44 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 09:45 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (LISuA)
Well, there's conquering, and then there's "conquering." Mohammedanism completely accepts the legitimacy of surrender, so long as its coming from other Mohammedans.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:45 AM (kff5f)
===========================
Is there any military leader who sees this as a real option? I'd sure like to not put anyone at risk in that hellhole but no one I've read says you can pull off a defense of the Kurds without at least short-term deployments. Again, a la GHW Bush.
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:45 AM (LISuA)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 09:45 AM (659DL)
Posted by: MTF
This.
What they call 'strong horses' we call counter-valing forces. It's yet another foreign policy term thought to be passe and icky.
Short of occupation and ruling most of the ME, options include:
buttressing regional powers (proxies if you will)
deliberate destabilization (Think Britains' Continental policy)
Ignore it as long as possible.
A nuclear Iran is yet another problem. We cannot begin to trust another country in the region with nukes besides Israel. And if Iran gets them, their influence grows.
And we'll probably witness a repeat of China, then India and Pakistan striving to become nuclear powers.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 19, 2015 09:45 AM (Spluw)
They are fighting in Iraq. You must have missed the amount of IRGC killed fighting ISIS. The Iraqi regime are Iranian puppets, that is why former Baathists have thrown in with ISIS. They are bleeding each other in Iraq.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:45 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:46 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 09:46 AM (C278+)
146 what was the arab spring initially called? i have forgotten.
Posted by: comrade willow at February 19, 2015 09:38 AM (nqBYe)
"Yet Another Round of Bitching, Bleating and Beheading by Mooslims Irredeemably Stuck in the Seventh Century", IIRC.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) at February 19, 2015 09:46 AM (bWFHa)
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (LISuA)
I see myself having a threesome with Brooklyn Decker and Kate Upton, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.
Turkey wants the Kurds dead, and is willing to risk a war with ISIS afterward. And....Turkey would kick the shit out of ISIS in short order. They have a real army, with rules of engagement that fit on a post card.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:47 AM (Zu3d9)
Putin is standing up to the EU and Soros. I applaud him for that. I rather root for Putin than Euro Socialists and Neo Nazis like you are.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:47 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Chinaacid at February 19, 2015 09:47 AM (PbrJu)
Posted by: fairweatherbill the car bomber at February 19, 2015 09:48 AM (YMAom)
========================
Sure, I suppose, except (again from my one article "understanding" of ISIS, so none at all) the ISIS plan is to conquer, sack, execute and execute. Especially muslim states, whom the jihadis are said to regard as apostates and the worst of the worst.
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:48 AM (LISuA)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:48 AM (2Ojst)
Any worldview that supports Soros, EU and Nazis is evil.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:48 AM (Z5J3g)
Hey, Hector, still no luck with the anal seepage, huh? Sorry to hear that. Guess still no OT for you at the glory-hole, huh?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:48 AM (kff5f)
into the region is that they eventually go back home with fighting
skills and heads full of even more Islamic blather.
Not a good idea.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (Zu3d9)"
That is not a problem if it is a one way trip. I would be inclined to see a CIA front organization arranging trips to the area and as part of the process collecting photographs, fingerprints and DNA to identify them if they try to return. It might even be possible to implant RFID transponders like those ones you can have put into your dog to ID him in case he gets lost. Jihadis who try to return home can be picked up and interrogated then either tried, disappeared or handed over to ISIS to be dealt with as deserters.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 19, 2015 09:49 AM (KDbAT)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:49 AM (/GgDU)
Posted by: Matt
Putin shot down an airliner.
Russia dwarfs all of its neighbors.
Throw around the nazi card all you want. Putin isn't doing what he's doing because he wants huddled masses yearning to breathe free, and he isn't scared of a country with no internal arms industry OR access to foreign arms. The only country close to Russia that could hurt it is the PRC, and you'll note that he's heading West.
Again.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 19, 2015 09:49 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Marie Hork and Jen Psocki at February 19, 2015 09:49 AM (Dwehj)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 09:50 AM (659DL)
Posted by: Bandersnatch, let all the children boogie at February 19, 2015 09:50 AM (JtwS4)
Posted by: fairweatherbill the car bomber at February 19, 2015 09:50 AM (YMAom)
frustrating i feel like i'm obsessed as it seems relevant to what's happening today (probably isn't)
Posted by: comrade willow at February 19, 2015 09:50 AM (nqBYe)
It is conservatives and progressives who care about Muslims. The rest of us do not.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:50 AM (Z5J3g)
Actually, its easier to put a .22 between their eyes than to plant transponder micro chips
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:50 AM (/GgDU)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:45 AM (Z5J3g)
As I said they are perfectly fine with bleeding everyone to death so they can walk right in take over. That means sunni and shia. And if they really cared to crush ISIS they could send in a huge force to do that. You don't notice them doing that do You?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (rDqRv)
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (e8kgV)
Posted by: Marie Hork and Jen Psocki at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (Dwehj)
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (659DL)
That rhetorical question is just a rehash of the same straw man every bed wetting, pillow biting whiner puts forward when they don't want to face reality. The reality is that no one on earth can make that place better until those people decide that enough is enough and want to make it better. And sometimes that requires a level of effort that costs them their lives so their kids or the kids of their kids can have a better life.
The idea that we are somehow responsible for making the region a better place if we go in there to kill those who have threatened to kill us is foolish. And foolish ideas like that have cost us dearly in Americans killed for political folly.
For those who have threatened us with death, hunt them down and kill them. Where ever they are. And kill those who support them. Where ever they are. Failure to do that only delays the inevitable; they will come to kill you.
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead on a new tablet at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (TDhf0)
Turkey has been moving more "true" Mohammedan for several years now. And even ISIS understands that eventually you run out of bullets.
If Turkey were to say "yes, we're part of the caliphate now, lead us, O great one," ISIS would say "Okidoki."
And, yes, there would still be executions and such- because that's how Mohammedanism works. But I don't think Turkey cares too much.
Alternatively, Turkey sees that ISIS is pointed at Syria and Iraq at the moment, and may draw the US in as well (whether TFG wants to or not), and is thinking "Let's you and them fight."
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 09:51 AM (/GgDU)
>>>Short of occupation and ruling most of the ME, options include:
I was trying to think up, without regard for interests, who might be capable of easily doing in ISIS. I came up with a short list: Russia, China, US, NATO. Then who could do it with greater difficulty: A coalition of Arab States, Turkey, India. Who should not do it: UN, Israel.
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 09:52 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:53 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 09:54 AM (IBmPN)
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:54 AM (LISuA)
Posted by: Motorhead at February 19, 2015 09:54 AM (0K3WN)
Posted by: Citizen Cake at February 19, 2015 09:54 AM (PtTYB)
(no shit)
And Iran, which is shiite, is allying with a shiite majority government in Iraq.
(ditto).
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 09:54 AM (Spluw)
As a life-long prepubescent girl I am saddened to think that America offers me no future worthy of the name because of mean people who don't like seeing decapitations and immolation. I am happy that you are hastening the arrival of the Caliphate so that blessed Sharia law can be implemented in my community. My true potential can then be realized. And thank you for pointing out the truth about the Crusades.
Luv,
S.
P.S. Happy Saint Valentine's Day.
P.P.S. Is clitoris reattachment surgery covered under Obamacare?
Posted by: Sabrina, the mythical Muslim child philosopher at February 19, 2015 09:54 AM (NeFrd)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 09:54 AM (C278+)
Why did not russia go after the Ukraine before? Hint, the EU and Soros were not meddling in it.
It is funny how the loud mouths who want war over the Ukraine do not address the involvement of Soros, the EU and NeoNazis.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:55 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: joey choo choo at February 19, 2015 09:55 AM (YMAom)
>>>buttressing regional powers (proxies if you will)
If you think of the ME as a fleabag motel filled with hoodlums in different rooms who get rowdy and start destroying everything at the drop of a hat, then you figure the best option is always to find the one guy in each room who can shut all the other aholes down and keep it to a dull roar. That can mean an Assad or a KSA or a Gulf Emir but its all the same thing
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 09:56 AM (3ZtZW)
Mexico is a puppet state of America. It is only in Latino hating kkk conservative fantasies that is some enemy state.
Grow up and get with reality.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:56 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:57 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 09:57 AM (659DL)
Yeah it's a pure f*cking disaster.
We hid that from you too.
Posted by: Brian Williams Truth Bomber at February 19, 2015 09:57 AM (WGm5T)
>>>Hector changed his name to Matt, I see.
Well, he doesn't have any arms or legs. Tomorrow, when he's in the bath, he'll switch it to Bob
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (IBmPN)
That would be Medina and Mecca. Guess where they are?
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (/jpU8)
Matt,
I love you and want to have your babies.
Posted by: Squeaky Fromme at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (Z5J3g)
>>>Hector changed his name to Matt, I see.
Well, he doesn't have any arms or legs. Tomorrow, when he's in the bath, he'll switch it to Bob
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (3ZtZW)
Let's hang him on the wall and call him Art.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (2Ojst)
Like say Russia. Which I'll ignore. Cause I'm a fucktard. So I'll ignore the crimea and airliners being shot down and instead say sorossorossorossoros.
my diaper is brimming.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (Spluw)
Putin totally has TFG's number.
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (cbfNE)
Posted by: lowandslow at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (+ebSh)
Read a history book.
Russia always looked upon the Ukraine as in it's sphere of influence. It has nothing what so ever to do with soros..what aload of horse crap
Why now? Because they can, that's why. It's as simple as that. No America Leadership in the World if you want a reason. But Russia needed no extra reason to "Officially" take over the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
But on point you are right. There is not much we can do about it other than force Russia back into a cold war and out spend them on defense and crush them that way. Which is exactly what we should be doing.
The Bear never left, he was just hibernating
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (rDqRv)
So, Tijuana?
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (IBmPN)
That would be a bad place with bad people plotting to do bad things with donkeys.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: HH at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (Ce4DF)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (Spluw)
Nuking Saudi Arabia and Iran would solve the mideast problems.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (NeFrd)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 09:58 AM (2Ojst)
Or use him as third base.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 10:00 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 09:39 AM (Zu3d9)"
Turkey joined NATO in 1951.
And, yes, it was a brilliant idea for them to join at the time.
Can you think of any things that might have changed in the last 64 years?
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 19, 2015 10:00 AM (KDbAT)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:00 AM (2Ojst)
The Bear never left, he was just hibernating
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (rDqRv)
So thats where TFG took it from?
////
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:00 AM (/GgDU)
because.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:00 AM (Spluw)
I'll discuss Crimea all day. You choose to ignore Soros and the open society's involvement in overthrowing the Ukrainian government with the help of Nazis.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:00 AM (Z5J3g)
what, with no Master's in Public Relations from Georgetown? No PhD in Peace Studies from Brown?
Heathen.
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:01 AM (/jpU8)
The Bear never left, he was just hibernating
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (rDqRv)
So thats where TFG took it from?
////
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:00 AM (/GgDU)
Andrew Sullivan, actually, although Barry is more of a twink.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:01 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Hector's Feminie Side at February 19, 2015 10:01 AM (WvpaS)
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (NeFrd)
Although you didn't start it, I blame you. You are an exporter of punism.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:01 AM (/GgDU)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 10:01 AM (C278+)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:02 AM (/jpU8)
Russia always looked upon the Ukraine as in it's sphere of influence. It has nothing what so ever to do with soros..what aload of horse crap
Not just sphere of influence. Russia's origin as a culture and language is in Ukraine. Borders and people wander over time and Ukraine has a unique national identity, but it's on the land that birthed Russia.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, let all the children boogie at February 19, 2015 10:02 AM (JtwS4)
Sooooooorooooos.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:02 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: MTF at February 19, 2015 09:43 AM (LISuA)
It's not really 'conquering' if the gates are opened for you when you get there.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (fwARV)
Posted by: JohnJ at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (TF/YA)
Ukraine has been part of Russia before America existed. So long as it was friendly state, Russia left them alone. Once Soros and his gang overthrew their government, Russia was not going to allow a hostile puppet regime next to them.
Why are you supporting Soros, the EU and Neo Nazis?
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (659DL)
Sooooooorooooos.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:02
What about the Joooooooooooooooooooooooooooooos?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (/GgDU)
Posted by: Brian Williams Truth Bomber at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (WGm5T)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (2Ojst)
Yeah. Setting people on fire and filming it and beating off to the video? Meh. Think doing that stuff is bad and the people who do it are pieces of shit? RAYCISS VIOLENT EXTREMIST H8R! HOW DARE YOU JUDGE THEM?!
Posted by: Comrade Moron ZKzrr at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Insomniac
Or use him as third base.
Use Bob on the corporate fishing trip.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (IBmPN)
Posted by: Comrade Moron ZKzrr at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (2Ojst)
Turkey was temporarily a part of the West because of one man (Ataturk). But culturally and religiously it is the ME.
Is anyone surprised that the Islamists finally got their way in Turkey?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 10:03 AM (fwARV
Key to the city, eh? Nice reward for being a barbarian.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (/GgDU)
Yup and too many conservatives are ignorant of these facts.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:05 AM (Z5J3g)
So good call people.
And Hector - go fellate a monkey.
Posted by: @JohnTant at February 19, 2015 10:05 AM (PFy0L)
I realize you're tossing BS here, but at least try to keep history somewhat factual, 'kay?
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:05 AM (/jpU8)
And the Turkish military. Until they allowed themselves to be subborned.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 10:06 AM (659DL)
I'm gonna tell mommy.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:06 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 10:06 AM (rDqRv)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 10:06 AM (IBmPN)
Posted by: Comrade Moron ZKzrr at February 19, 2015 10:06 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Inventor of Hashtag Science at February 19, 2015 10:06 AM (Moh0M)
I hate Obama as well, but that conservatives even more. Obama is lesser of evils compared to conservatives who are bigots and want WW3.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:06 AM (Z5J3g)
Not true....otherwise they would beat The Patriots.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 10:07 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Comrade Moron ZKzrr at February 19, 2015 10:07 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at February 19, 2015 10:07 AM (NeFrd)
Posted by: fairweatherbill at February 19, 2015 10:08 AM (YMAom)
Posted by: Comrade Moron ZKzrr at February 19, 2015 10:08 AM (ZKzrr)
Not much else, but hey, play to your strengths.
I'm back to playing the bigot card. And i don't wanna talk about my dear leader getting money from sooooooooroooooos.
Or a shot down airliner.
or the crimea.
lalalala
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:08 AM (Spluw)
Does Kievan Russ ring a bell. Ukraine is part of Russia's sphere, not ours.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:08 AM (Z5J3g)
It's the typical tablet/mobile friendly style redesign that everybody is redesigning towards. Makes sense, that's how more and more ppl read these days.
They also seem to have mass purged their less read blogs. NRO had a bunch of blogs that nobody read. Those appear to be gone.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at February 19, 2015 10:08 AM (ZPrif)
No thanks on gifting the Russians with sovereign countries because of "tradition."
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 10:09 AM (659DL)
Posted by: fairweatherbill at February 19, 2015 10:09 AM (YMAom)
Posted by: Lizzy at February 19, 2015 10:09 AM (WvpaS)
Posted by: Marie Hork and Jen Psocki at February 19, 2015 10:09 AM (Dwehj)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:09 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Pixy Misa at February 19, 2015 10:10 AM (2yngH)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 19, 2015 10:10 AM (C278+)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:10 AM (2Ojst)
Therefore, I think that conservatives on a blog want war.......as opposed to the one going on right now.
EU?
Soooooroooooos (except when he's giving money to my dear leader)
KKK ( a democrat organization)
bigots/
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:10 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: jack at February 19, 2015 10:10 AM (53CCM)
I will give the neo Nazis in Europe credit. They are volunteering and going to the Ukraine and fight the Russians. Why don't conservatives do the same.
What are you all scared?
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:10 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Miss Teen America at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (Dwehj)
Key to the city, eh? Nice reward for being a barbarian.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (/GgDU)
When the people agree with you, they'll let you in.
"Do nothing" is simply not acceptable here. The attacks in the UK, Canada, Australia et al. prove that ISIS isn't content to hold land in the Middle East. They actively seek (and have the means to achieve) the damage/destruction of the West in all its forms.
But as I've been saying for some time now, we have only two options:
a) Send us over, unrestricted by the bullshit ROE and let us kill them all.
b) Say fcuk it and bring us all home. Period.
Being at war is like being pregnant. You are or you are not. There are no half-measures.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (fwARV)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (Spluw)
I concur.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: fairweatherbill at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (YMAom)
do about it other than force Russia back into a cold war and out spend
them on defense and crush them that way. Which is exactly what we should
be doing.
The Bear never left, he was just hibernating
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 09:59 AM (rDqRv)"
One of the most important things we could do for the strategic long term interest of the United States would be to impose an oil import tax. To minimize the damage to the US economy, that ought to be a NAFTA oil tax since most of the oil the US imports is from Canada and Mexico.
An oil import tax would have the multiple benefits of protecting the infant oil fracking industry in the United States and reducing the world price of oil outside of the US which weakens Russia, Iran and Venezuela. An oil import tax provides some degree of isolation for the United States from fluctuations in the world price of oil, adding a degree of stabilization that allows longer term planning and construction of energy infrastructure that takes years to build.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (KDbAT)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (659DL)
Posted by: HugoStiglitz at February 19, 2015 10:11 AM (Moh0M)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:12 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:12 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:12 AM (2Ojst)
"A bad place with bad people plotting to do bad things to America"
"So, Tijuana?"
Washington DC...
Posted by: redc1c4 at February 19, 2015 10:12 AM (vIjYi)
And Cuba, and Quebec, and you know what you can see from Alaska?
Hey where is that raggle-fratzin zunnagabitz what tole me to ax about the $5.99 ribeyes at da Krogerz? I politely sidled up to the Butcher's Helper, told her the word was on the street that there was some five-buck ribeye back there, and she got to laughin' so hard she had to call for help mocking me. Short version, they wanted to know what the weather was like there on the dark side of Mars. No, we ain't got no sale ribeyes. Don't you know there's a megadrought on?
Basically, "Lady if we were out, we'd give 'em away" --just the punchkey.
I hereby j'accuse you of being a shill for Big Barney, in league with CheaprThan Beef and Beefman's Guide and CaBeefla's, and all the other stuff guys called VIA when the cheap ammo wasn't there by the time they ordered it.
"And so we worked, and waited for the light
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread..."
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 19, 2015 10:13 AM (xq1UY)
People do not forget their roots. Look at Jews and Israel.
If you want to support George Soros, the EU and Neo Nazis go ahead. Be honest about it.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:13 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: @votermom at February 19, 2015 10:13 AM (cbfNE)
Because nobody updated them for months at a time. I'd click on them when I was over there reading something else, and the top post would be from May.
(The "new phone-friendly-format" looked like shit on my laptop, but I guess people who sit at desks aren't their audience.)
Posted by: Comrade Moron ZKzrr at February 19, 2015 10:13 AM (ZKzrr)
10 years ago I would have asked Turkey to annex Syria, but now, not so much.
Posted by: FDR's Television at February 19, 2015 10:13 AM (ne2fm)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:13 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: HH at February 19, 2015 10:14 AM (Ce4DF)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 19, 2015 10:14 AM (IBmPN)
The Russians are killing your Nazi buddies well enough. You are the ones lamenting Soros plans falling apart.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:14 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:14 AM (/jpU8)
i sitll love soooooorooooos giving money to my dear leader
the phantom neo nazis are icky. Russians shooting down airliners are dreamy.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:15 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:10 AM (Z5J3g)
I've been to war. I've been under fire. I was terrified.
Tell me, though, what campaign decorations have you earned? Do you have any for action or valor?
Then what right have you to comment at all?
You've long maintained that without military service, an individual can't comment on tactics or policy. You ignore that leaving the decision of whether or not to go to war strictly with the military will lead to more war, not less, but hey, you've never been consistent.
I'll lay my -214 (and a -215!) down next to anyone here. My discharge says 'Honorable' on it, and I've served my country.
Have you served anything besides wings and beer to the frat boys in your section?
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 10:15 AM (fwARV)
US or a coalition of regional forces but to him the ad-hoc rebel model
we are currently employing is dead."
the only one that really needs to be toppled is the Iran regime. however...barack and his administration seems to rather like them ayatollahs
Posted by: runner at February 19, 2015 10:15 AM (yrk2K)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2015 10:15 AM (rDqRv)
Posted by: Bigby's Chinese Finger Trap at February 19, 2015 10:15 AM (3ZtZW)
Did i mention nazis? I should get around to that some time.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:15 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:16 AM (Z5J3g)
Oh, but Ukraine can be a springboard for other military forces. Bull. Which ones?
The EU? The EU, militarily speaking is not just a paper tiger, but a wet paper tiger, so it's unlikely that it will send troops through Ukraine into Russia, and why would it do so, anyway?
The United States? No, no, and no.What interest do we have in fighting with Russia absent Russian aggression? We already beat them once during the Cold War, and no amount ofex-KGB hurtbutt can change that. The Russian government has a chip on their shoulder about us, not the other way around. Russia's a geopolitical rival, but that doesn't mean we want or need to fight them. There are other ways of addressing that issue.
So who are these terrible foes that will invade Russia through Ukraine and bring in a new dark age of less corruption, 100% less ex-KGB in government, and actual remembrance for the millions and millions slaughtered by the Soviet government that the Putin regime wants everyone to forget about? There are none. It's all typically KGBdisinformation and propaganda, seasoned with the habitual Sovietparanoia.
Posted by: lurkingestluker at February 19, 2015 10:16 AM (k8xvx)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:16 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Miss Teen America at February 19, 2015 10:16 AM (Dwehj)
Posted by: lurkingestluker at February 19, 2015 10:16 AM (k8xvx)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:17 AM (F2IAQ)
The mark of an intellectually dishonest coward is one who ignores facts that does not fit their worldview.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:17 AM (Z5J3g)
Except, of course, for all those Dem-voting Jewish folks here in the States.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 10:17 AM (fwARV)
Of nazis that I will NOT prove exist.
And I am on record being happy about people being killed by my hero putin.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:17 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Brown Paper Pete at February 19, 2015 10:17 AM (eTY+n)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:18 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 19, 2015 10:18 AM (LA7Cm)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:13 AM (Z5J3g
I support you being bitch slapped then banned. But, thats just me. You're worse than a skipping CD
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 19, 2015 10:18 AM (F2IAQ)
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at February 19, 2015 10:18 AM (NeFrd)
And you are on the record as sucking cocks by choice.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 10:18 AM (fwARV)
I have no idea what you are ranting about.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:18 AM (Z5J3g)
You are seriously deranged.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 19, 2015 10:18 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: @JohnTant at February 19, 2015 10:19 AM (eytER)
You lost the argument. Thanks for admitting defeat.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:19 AM (Z5J3g)
All is well, puting is killing people, and I'm whining about phantom nazis and the military giant, the EU.
Which needs gas and oil from Russia.
So has no incentive to piss off russia.
to the point of wanting to build and sell them warships.
But nazis.
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:20 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:20 AM (/jpU8)
So, we are back to a strategy of "kill their leaders* and convert them to Christianity" or install brutal dictators beholden to us for killer drone parts and granular intel from cell phone snooping on a mass scale.
* leaders - means down to guy at the mosque who cleans up the boys after the rough Thursday night "service"
Posted by: Jean at February 19, 2015 10:20 AM (ztOda)
I am speaking the truth. Do you deny Neo Nazi militias are fighting the Russians?
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:20 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:21 AM (Spluw)
my irony meter just exploded...
Posted by: redc1c4 at February 19, 2015 10:21 AM (vIjYi)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:21 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: FDR's Television at February 19, 2015 10:22 AM (ne2fm)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:21 AM (/jpU
It is difficult to apologize when you don't think you've done anything wrong...
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at February 19, 2015 10:22 AM (fwARV)
Will I be honest? no.
If I make an assertion, I should be able to cite evidence.
Instead, I'll whine, lie and make pathetic comments about being on the record, and dost thou deny the presence of EVIL?
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:22 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:23 AM (Spluw)
Are you OK? You are just rambling and making no point whatsoever. You are the one who supports Nazis, not I. Cane you get specific about what you are ranting about?
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:23 AM (Z5J3g)
Are you OK? You are just rambling and making no point whatsoever. You are the one who supports Nazis, not I. Cane you get specific about what you are ranting about?
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:23 AM (Z5J3g)
That buffet attendant is exactly how I picture Matt, I mean Hector. Well, maybe not as butch as the attendant. But close.
Posted by: @JohnTant at February 19, 2015 10:23 AM (eytER)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:24 AM (Spluw)
Loom up the agendanof George Soros's open society and get back to me.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:24 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:24 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:25 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:25 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:25 AM (Spluw)
Can you be specific about what you are ranting about? You are making no sense and just screaming like a banshee.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:26 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:26 AM (Spluw)
Is anyone surprised that the Islamists finally got their way in Turkey?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 19, 2015 10:04 AM (Zu3d9)"
Although Ataturk was a sort of George Washington of a westernized Turkey, it was more than one man who sustained it until relatively recently when a combination of demographic changes and European dangling the prospect of EU membership before the western leaning faction of Turkey caused them to dismantle the military reset switch which always intervened when Islamists became too powerful that has led to the end of what had been a stable system for keeping Turkey a part of the West. The current situation in Turkey is yet another example of progressives causing problems by acting as if the world was the way they wish it were rather than the way it is.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 19, 2015 10:28 AM (KDbAT)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:28 AM (/jpU8)
True story. Deny it if you dare conservakknaziEUcontainsglutenives
Posted by: Floor Matt at February 19, 2015 10:28 AM (Spluw)
You've been willowed.
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:29 AM (/jpU8)
Can you speak clearly? What groups do I support that have committed genocide? Are you auditioning to be the riddler?
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:29 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:31 AM (/jpU8)
I see your earlier accusation. The Spanish did not commit genocide. It was diseases that reduced your peoples numbers. The French and English did the same as the Spanish and you do not hate them.
I have no pity for the Aztecs and Incans who were evil. Where there atrocities, sure but no genocide. If you want pity, get a dog.
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 10:34 AM (Z5J3g)
Posted by: brevity at February 19, 2015 10:37 AM (rRBI0)
Posted by: NoLongerintheBellyoftheBeast at February 19, 2015 10:37 AM (D/mKE)
Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at February 19, 2015 10:38 AM (nn+mV)
http://snipurl.com/29pq51v
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at February 19, 2015 10:38 AM (VAsIq)
Posted by: Matt at February 19, 2015 09:34 AM (Z5J3g)
Bullshit on stilts. Putin paid enormous bribes to highly ranked Ukrainian public officials, up to and including the pro-Russian asshole President of theirs who was forced out of office. There's irrefutable evidence of direct cash payments to these people. The now-ousted Ukrainian government had been completely suborned by the Russians. I think the Soros stuff is a red herring because this is the first I've heard of his involvement.
I'm frankly fed up with Putin apologists and Ron Paul enthusiasts duckspeaking the party line at every opportunity. Putin is another murderous dictator in a long line of Russian murderous dictators. Ron Paul is a whackjob asshole and so is his son. To hell with them.
Posted by: troyriser at February 19, 2015 10:38 AM (CAJL/)
So you make assumptions about those who you do not know as well, I see.
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:39 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: DaveA at February 19, 2015 10:40 AM (DL2i+)
Hateful, mean spirited, and so on? Sure, I'd be fine with those descriptions for him.
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 10:41 AM (/jpU8)
I think he probably set a record though for the number of times someone has used Soros and Nazi's in a single thread, at least so far this year.
Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at February 19, 2015 10:48 AM (MbrzC)
Posted by: anon a mouse at February 19, 2015 11:12 AM (/jpU8)
War to punish barbaric savages...maybe. But it might be like cutting the head off of a Hydra.
Boots on the ground to pick sides when all sides suck? Fuck no.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 19, 2015 11:13 AM (XmOA9)
The "moderates" escape wars, they don't look to fight them, it seems. So who is funding the armies? Russia? Qatar? Iran?
Posted by: Illiniwek at February 19, 2015 11:13 AM (m2kvo)
Iraq was working out until Obama pulled the plug. Bush's intervention worked after he got past the initial errors.
The problem is such intervention is expensive (not just in money), and it is vastly more expensive when you cut and run and let it all go to hell. Because the cut and run costs your credability as well.
At this point the whole thing is a mess. We gave up our success in Iraq, and Obama has no intention to engage in any difficult operation there. He will, however, take down the likes of Qaddafy and perhaps Assad without boot on the ground to make sure the result is benificial. Hell, he seems intent on aiding the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
Posted by: DonS at February 19, 2015 11:15 AM (MLzEj)
months. There's always been a portion of the foreign policy community
that we have to let the Arabs find their own way to freedom - democracy
will start off being jihadi, but they'll mature over time, and that
supporting "SOB's, but our SOB's" like Mubarak and the Saudis arrests
that development and keeps the Arabs politically infantilized. The
problem with that idea is that Islamism is a dead-end in political
evolution. A society that democratically elects to go Islamist won't
evolve toward anything. It will be one Muslim, one vote, one time.
So instead, I'd suggest replacing Assad with a Baathist or military leader. I'm convinced our approach to Arab nations needs to be "secularize before you democratize." And the West needs to stop subsidizing regimes that export their crazies as a way of relieving domestic political pressure (e.g. the Saudis), and actively bring them to heel. The Arab nations are like Mexico - we're letting their governments off the hook with mass immigration, foreign aid and trade.
Keep the Muslims in the Muslim lands. Instead of letting the strongman de jour hand out our foreign aid, start having Americans hand it out. Want some food today? You have to hear a lecturer from the US aid organization tell you about where the money to buy that food comes from, and why your Islamist country can't seem to produce anything. Political missionary work - propaganda, yes, but too damn bad. If you don't want to be propagandized, grow your own food. Don't let the recipients of largesse forget who and where it comes from. Actively push our message the same way the imams and the strongmen do. Propagandize the "Arab street" and win some converts of our own. Acceptance of Israel and recognition of how it's a success story Arabs should emulate needs to be part of the message.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 19, 2015 11:24 AM (QKIQb)
So, if we go after ISIS, what's our plan for Assad?
Make sure the rebels have enough juice from their patron's to give Assad a hard time. But not enough juice to finish him.
As I see it, make Iran and Russia bleed resources to prop up Assad.
And make Qatar and Turkey bleed resources to prop up the rebels. I call the a lose-lose-win scenario. There becomes a nasty mostly static war of attrition in Syria, and our enemies are bleeding resources to keep it going. While we make popcorn.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at February 19, 2015 01:25 PM (1hM1d)
Posted by: irright at February 19, 2015 04:18 PM (8GKDa)
Posted by: irright at February 19, 2015 04:19 PM (8GKDa)
Posted by: irright at February 19, 2015 04:21 PM (pMGkg)
Posted by: irright at February 19, 2015 04:23 PM (pMGkg)
Posted by: irright at February 19, 2015 04:24 PM (pMGkg)
Posted by: shredded chi at February 20, 2015 06:43 PM (2njrJ)
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My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)