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Jay Cost: The Republican Party Is Not Your Friend
I have long argued against a third-party split and the Nightmare Option of simply conceding the country to the liberals for 20 disastrous years.
I am no longer confident in such arguments. At some point -- and that point is coming soon and hard -- the Republican Party must be treated as what it is, a second enemy party dominated by corporate liberalism. Before quoting Cost's article, let me mention his book A Republic No More, a sustained argument that the inherent and apparently unreformable level of corruption in the American government has made it no longer a republic at all.[T]he Republican Party, while far preferable to the unchecked liberalism of the Democrats, is not all that conservative. [I]f we understand conservatism as advocating smaller government that treats people impartially, many in the party struggle mightily not to act on those principles. Instead, the recent history of "conservative" governance has been one of ever-larger government, and an expansion of the cronyism and corruption built into the system. The last time the GOP had complete control over the government, 2003-07, it massively expanded Medicare and enacted more pork-barrel spending than any prior Congress in history. Political parties are not coterminous with ideologies. They are big, broad, unwieldy coalitions that contain lots of factions and varying traditions. Oftentimes, these forces are in direct conflict with one another. Conservatives are part of the Republican Party, but so are other forces that--while they might call themselves "conservative"--are actually something quite different.Many who call themselves "conservative" are really actually corporatist. These two things are not nearly the same. Furthermore, the corporate class which dominates American life both politically and economically is, as a matter of socio-political belongingness, extremely liberal. Yes, they will demand we lower the corporate tax rates and such, as their fiduciary duty demands; but then they will also demand we amnetize 12 million "New Americans" for the Old Americans to subsidize. Those are my words, but Cost speaks similarly. He picks up in the early 1900s as the Republican Party discovers a new primary mission, now that its old primary mission (ending slavery) had been achieved.
That's when a new, postwar generation of Republicans transformed the party into the defender of Northern business interests. This was a fairly natural transition for the GOP. The Republicans had formed from the remains of the Whig party, which favored government efforts to develop the economy (e.g., protective tariffs). But the GOP of the 1880s and beyond took this to another level. Republican Party leaders came to view the interests of the country and the interests of its largest businesses as one and the same. As I argue in my new book, "A Republic No More: Big Government and the Rise of American Political Corruption," Republican Party leaders came to view the interests of the country and the interests of its largest businesses as one and the same.... The CBO predicted lowered wages and an increased unemployment rate over the next decade as a consequence of immigration legislation. To one side of the party, this is a defect; to the other, a virtue. Yet this is something that business interests predictably oppose. Not all of them, of course. But each of these targeted policies benefits some corporate group or another, and each will work like hell to protect their personal slice of the pie. And they have plenty of friends in the old business wing of the Republican Party, which persists to this day. This is why conservatives have so far failed to cut farm subsidies or eliminate the Export-Import Bank. These are probably the most egregious forms of corporate subsidy, but the beneficiaries have enough friends in the GOP to preserve the status quo.And of course that's why the corporatists support minting millions of new, low-wage-expectations Americans, to drive down actual current legal documented Americans' wages. The corporatist class also insists, while this is all going on, that they pay less in taxes than they do currently, even though the effect of their desired policies will be to put more actual Americans on the government dole (and hence to jack up government expenses). They not only seek to reduce their own cost of wages, but then further demand to be immunized against the higher taxes needed to compensate the out-of-work Americans their preferred policies create. I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class -- and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts. And then, once it does hurt, and they are begging relief, we can have a different conversation about what we shall demand of them to ally with them anew. But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Pander Bear party 2016! C'mon!
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at February 12, 2015 11:42 AM (VAsIq)
2
I'm giving them one more chance this election. After that if they screw up, which I fear they will, I'm outta here.
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at February 12, 2015 11:43 AM (Bn6aD)
3
The problem is NOT the parties. The problem is the first past the post voting system. It needs serious reform to eliminate once and for all a 2 party system!!!
Posted by: joe dagostino at February 12, 2015 11:43 AM (5vRRq)
Posted by: John of Salisbury at February 12, 2015 11:44 AM (8CdUx)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 12, 2015 11:44 AM (LA7Cm)
Posted by: joe dagostino at February 12, 2015 11:44 AM (5vRRq)
7
DrewM, I worry that if you insist on continuing these anti-GOP attack posts, ace is going to kick you off the site.
Posted by: Methos hasn't cleaned his glasses lately at February 12, 2015 11:44 AM (A6vWB)
8
The Republican Leadership is just the Good Cop in the Good-cop-bad-cop ruse of the Socialist Fusion Party.
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (evdj2)
9
The Republican Party is not my friend? Of course they are!
Posted by: Harry Reid at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (VAsIq)
10
The GOP is not my friend? This comes just after don't eat yellow snow.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (cE6jC)
11
I thought it was the lesser of two WEASELS.
Posted by: irright at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (pMGkg)
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at February 12, 2015 11:46 AM (JkmfQ)
13
If only there were candidates who actually would take in entrenched Republican interests.
Posted by: blaster at February 12, 2015 11:46 AM (Rx8ML)
14
Nice post Ace, the real conundrum for me is whether conservatives should focus their efforts on an ART V/dissolution push or a legit 3d party.
The corporate class is largely indifferent or allied with the Granola Gaia class to stifle the US economy's ability to grow its way out of the downturn.
I am not seeing a happy ending.
The corporate class is largely indifferent or allied with the Granola Gaia class to stifle the US economy's ability to grow its way out of the downturn.
I am not seeing a happy ending.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 11:46 AM (/4AZU)
15
To quote my favorite conservative, John McClane (not John McCain, you nitwits):
WELCOME TO THE PARTY, PAL!!
WELCOME TO THE PARTY, PAL!!
Posted by: BurtTC at February 12, 2015 11:47 AM (TOk1P)
16
Has anybody ever gotten a Window disk image backup to actually restore on a Windows 8.1 system ?
My system started out the other day by not allowing me to complete a system disk image backup with a bunch of errors. After running SFC and DISM I had SFC happy them it still failed.
I tried to restore previous disk images to a second HD, and that failed to 3 different system image backups I had.
Well today the system crash .. now I'm shit out of luck .. Thanks Microsoft
My system started out the other day by not allowing me to complete a system disk image backup with a bunch of errors. After running SFC and DISM I had SFC happy them it still failed.
I tried to restore previous disk images to a second HD, and that failed to 3 different system image backups I had.
Well today the system crash .. now I'm shit out of luck .. Thanks Microsoft
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 12, 2015 11:47 AM (e8kgV)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:47 AM (sWgE+)
18
7 Posted by: Methos hasn't cleaned his glasses lately at February 12, 2015 11:44 AM (A6vWB)
Yup...wait...
Ace is kicking Ace off his site..
It's like many faces of ewok
Yup...wait...
Ace is kicking Ace off his site..
It's like many faces of ewok
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 11:48 AM (/4AZU)
19
Many who call themselves "conservative" are really actually corporatist.
======
Mercantilism--government exists to protect businesses, specifically: Big businesses.
I've long said the only way to save the Republican party is an excommunication of the big business interest for being as distasteful as the John Birch Society.
It hobbles and stymies the interest of freedom and it is an evergreen tool in the hands of the Democrats with which to attack.
The biggest lie the Republican Party tells is that "Money = votes."
======
Mercantilism--government exists to protect businesses, specifically: Big businesses.
I've long said the only way to save the Republican party is an excommunication of the big business interest for being as distasteful as the John Birch Society.
It hobbles and stymies the interest of freedom and it is an evergreen tool in the hands of the Democrats with which to attack.
The biggest lie the Republican Party tells is that "Money = votes."
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 12, 2015 11:48 AM (ZvKdv)
20
Right now, we can stop buying the "products" -- low-salt bacon and the Soviet-style washing machines -- that the corporations foist upon us at the behest of the King and Queen. In fact, don't even buy the good products from those companies.
One food industry lobbyist said, "Oh they are so responsive to our concerns now," meaning Michelle et al. reward them for hurting us.
My recent experience with one of the big banks has also convinced me that their mission is to channel money to the government's designated winners. Get out while you can.
One food industry lobbyist said, "Oh they are so responsive to our concerns now," meaning Michelle et al. reward them for hurting us.
My recent experience with one of the big banks has also convinced me that their mission is to channel money to the government's designated winners. Get out while you can.
Posted by: PJ at February 12, 2015 11:48 AM (cHuNI)
21
USIP?
Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2015 11:48 AM (MYCIw)
22
We've been conceding since Wilson.
We've been conceding since Wilson.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 11:49 AM (NaV4z)
23
I am entirely for a third party. One that is centrist to conservative socially...meaning not wildly right but also not left, either. One that will appeal on an economic level to independents. Real, actual independents. Not, actually liberals independents.
Posted by: TickledPink at February 12, 2015 11:49 AM (TMe1n)
24
The Virginia General Assembly is in session and has an Article V as one of its bills. The Stupid Party (about half of them) believes an Article V is a creation of the Birchers and Code Pink, financed and desired by George Soros!
Posted by: RushBabe at February 12, 2015 11:50 AM (zdw2Z)
25
I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class --
and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports
liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on
whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
And again you're diagnosing a problem and proposing a solution that wont work. Corporations don't pay taxes their customers do and rich people can both avoid and afford huge taxes.
and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports
liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on
whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
And again you're diagnosing a problem and proposing a solution that wont work. Corporations don't pay taxes their customers do and rich people can both avoid and afford huge taxes.
Posted by: DaveA at February 12, 2015 11:50 AM (DL2i+)
26
19 Posted by: RoyalOil at February 12, 2015 11:48 AM (ZvKdv)
The American Revolution was a fight against Corpratist policies...
We actually *won* the fight here and in the end in England itself...
Now we're losing it.
The American Revolution was a fight against Corpratist policies...
We actually *won* the fight here and in the end in England itself...
Now we're losing it.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 11:50 AM (/4AZU)
27
Okay Ace, you occupy a position of some significance in the conservative blogosphere, so what are YOU going to do about it? Can we arrange a series of moron meet-up to launch a grass roots exploration of third-party options, or is this just another blog post that goes nowhere? I'll volunteer my efforts for the San Fernando Valley right now, as long as I'm not an army of one.
You've got my email and I'm eager to be counted among the troops, but we're waiting for a leader. Can you be him?
You've got my email and I'm eager to be counted among the troops, but we're waiting for a leader. Can you be him?
Posted by: Kate58 at February 12, 2015 11:50 AM (MvtKs)
28
I thought it was the lesser of two WEASELS.
Posted by: irright at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (pMGkg)
---
Two weevils.
Posted by: irright at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (pMGkg)
---
Two weevils.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 11:50 AM (NaV4z)
Posted by: The Great White Snark at February 12, 2015 11:51 AM (hFi8d)
30
I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class --
and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports
liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on
whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
Occupy Ace!!!
and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports
liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on
whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
Occupy Ace!!!
Posted by: JJStone at February 12, 2015 11:51 AM (nbgPm)
31
DrewM, I worry that if you insist on continuing these anti-GOP attack posts, ace Gabe is going to kick you off the site podcast.
Posted by: Methos hasn't cleaned his glasses lately at February 12, 2015 11:44 AM (A6vWB)
Fixed for me.
Posted by: Methos hasn't cleaned his glasses lately at February 12, 2015 11:44 AM (A6vWB)
Fixed for me.
Posted by: Golfman in NC at February 12, 2015 11:51 AM (GqEzX)
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at February 12, 2015 11:51 AM (JkmfQ)
33
Better late than never, Ace.
Well to the non party. I've been registered to vote since the 80's - will h no party affiliation whatsoever.
I give it One Moar Election, then I'll jump on a Third Party bandwagon. As long as that party has hookers, cocaine and truly conservative candidates!
Well to the non party. I've been registered to vote since the 80's - will h no party affiliation whatsoever.
I give it One Moar Election, then I'll jump on a Third Party bandwagon. As long as that party has hookers, cocaine and truly conservative candidates!
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 11:51 AM (BDTqv)
34
It needs serious reform to eliminate once and for all a 2 party system!!!
Because big D Democracy is working well?
Because all those Parliamentary systems are so Italian enviously stable?
Because big D Democracy is working well?
Because all those Parliamentary systems are so Italian enviously stable?
Posted by: DaveA at February 12, 2015 11:52 AM (DL2i+)
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 11:52 AM (7ObY1)
36
31 Posted by: Golfman in NC at February 12, 2015 11:51 AM (GqEzX)
My singed curly tail is proof WRT "site"..
My singed curly tail is proof WRT "site"..
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 11:52 AM (/4AZU)
37
As one of the ONT Morons commented (paraphrasing):
"Is it time to get all my money out of the banks and make all the home improvements I can?"
The LIB folks will allow all those on life-extending medications to die.
"Is it time to get all my money out of the banks and make all the home improvements I can?"
The LIB folks will allow all those on life-extending medications to die.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at February 12, 2015 11:53 AM (u82oZ)
38
I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class -- and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
---
Why do you hate Capitalism, ace?
/sarc
I agree, actually.
---
Why do you hate Capitalism, ace?
/sarc
I agree, actually.
Posted by: Y-not at February 12, 2015 11:53 AM (9BRsg)
39
Thinking.
Tax 50% of earnings above $250,000 to any individual who works for a corporation that provides goods/services to the federal government.
Tax 50% of earnings above $250,000 to any individual who works for a corporation that provides goods/services to the federal government.
Posted by: boniface ballers at February 12, 2015 11:53 AM (m/Gc2)
40
I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class -- and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
And then, once it does hurt, and they are begging relief, we can have a different conversation about what we shall demand of them to ally with them anew.
But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
Posted by: Ace at 11:41 AM
Bwahahahhaahaa!
Here's a huge assumption you're ignoring....
That your sect of conservatism is EVER going to be in a position to make such a demand.
And then, once it does hurt, and they are begging relief, we can have a different conversation about what we shall demand of them to ally with them anew.
But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
Posted by: Ace at 11:41 AM
Bwahahahhaahaa!
Here's a huge assumption you're ignoring....
That your sect of conservatism is EVER going to be in a position to make such a demand.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 12, 2015 11:53 AM (XmOA9)
41
"The last time the GOP had complete control over the government, 2003-07, it massively expanded Medicare and enacted more pork-barrel spending than any prior Congress in history."
And as we should remember, even the fabled Reagan Revolution, which advertised its intent to do away with a bunch of the big federal alphabet-soup agencies and departments, folded its tents and left town in 1989 after an eight-year run in which it had successfully abolished... the Civil Aeronautics Board.
Take THAT, big government!
And as we should remember, even the fabled Reagan Revolution, which advertised its intent to do away with a bunch of the big federal alphabet-soup agencies and departments, folded its tents and left town in 1989 after an eight-year run in which it had successfully abolished... the Civil Aeronautics Board.
Take THAT, big government!
Posted by: torquewrench at February 12, 2015 11:53 AM (noWW6)
42
and the Nightmare Option of simply conceding the country to the liberals for 20 disastrous years.
It only took the GOP 6 years from forming to electing their 1st President, and I think people are more pissed off Now, than then.
It only took the GOP 6 years from forming to electing their 1st President, and I think people are more pissed off Now, than then.
Posted by: Paladin at February 12, 2015 11:53 AM (ycm4Q)
43
"3
The problem is NOT the parties. The problem is the first past the post
voting system. It needs serious reform to eliminate once and for all a 2
party system!!!
Posted by: joe dagostino at February 12, 2015 11:43 AM (5vRRq)"
Yes, that is a great idea. Let's screw with the Constitution and replace it with the sort of system that led to Augusto Pinochet or Adolf Hitler coming to power with 1/3 of the vote.
The problem is NOT the parties. The problem is the first past the post
voting system. It needs serious reform to eliminate once and for all a 2
party system!!!
Posted by: joe dagostino at February 12, 2015 11:43 AM (5vRRq)"
Yes, that is a great idea. Let's screw with the Constitution and replace it with the sort of system that led to Augusto Pinochet or Adolf Hitler coming to power with 1/3 of the vote.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 12, 2015 11:54 AM (KDbAT)
44
All you damn peasants need to shut up, get back to work, and pay your damn taxes.
Posted by: Your GOPe Betters at February 12, 2015 11:54 AM (HBAcW)
45
Ways to fix things:
1. Balanced budget amendment.
2. Congressional term limits.
3. Kill PACs and remove individual contribution limits with full disclosure.
4. Take giant banks and break into not-a-catastrophe-if-they-go-tits-up pieces with extreme prejudice.
1. Balanced budget amendment.
2. Congressional term limits.
3. Kill PACs and remove individual contribution limits with full disclosure.
4. Take giant banks and break into not-a-catastrophe-if-they-go-tits-up pieces with extreme prejudice.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 12, 2015 11:55 AM (659DL)
46
Ace wakes up and smells the diaper pail.
Posted by: Ed Anger at February 12, 2015 11:55 AM (RcpcZ)
47
Higher taxes on the wealthiest? Mai oius! How about 75%?
Posted by: Le French at February 12, 2015 11:55 AM (zxQ4h)
48
"The American Revolution was a fight against Corpratist policies..."
We (I) don't normally think of it in that way but, yeah, the Tea Act was imposed to prop up a failing BEIC, so.
We (I) don't normally think of it in that way but, yeah, the Tea Act was imposed to prop up a failing BEIC, so.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 12, 2015 11:55 AM (LA7Cm)
49
Unitary national government, de jure or de facto, cannot be made to work for freedom and liberty. One size does not fit all.
Federalism and localism will be restored, either deliberately by persuasion, or chaotically in the Burning Time.
History has spoken.
Federalism and localism will be restored, either deliberately by persuasion, or chaotically in the Burning Time.
History has spoken.
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 11:55 AM (evdj2)
50
"I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class --
and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports
liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on
whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts."
I've said it to lefties, and I'll say it to you:
You cannot effectively tax the rich.
and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports
liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on
whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts."
I've said it to lefties, and I'll say it to you:
You cannot effectively tax the rich.
Posted by: Troll Feeder at February 12, 2015 11:55 AM (aycsT)
51
I believe Jonah Goldberg has made these same points.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (8ZskC)
52
The only way to achieve this punishingly high tax code would be to elect the socialists again, in even higher percentages than in 2008.
Then of course, we'd have to keep the corporations that are here from leaving.....
But hey, at least we'd have boarder security.
Of course, it would be the East Bloc type security, designed to keep people in, not out.
Then of course, we'd have to keep the corporations that are here from leaving.....
But hey, at least we'd have boarder security.
Of course, it would be the East Bloc type security, designed to keep people in, not out.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (XmOA9)
53
Haha, I love Ace at the end. "Tax the corporatists!"
Posted by: Draki at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (ij3Qo)
54
Not that I pretend to be an economic theorist, but it seems to me that the WHOLE government enterprise tilts the economic landscape to big companies and away from individual initiative. Think of regulation. The more red tape, the more big companies with deep pockets and lawyers are favored. Think of something as mundane as mandating handicap access. It sets the entry bar too high for many normal folks who just want to start a business. Or as Hillary! calls 'em, the "undercapitalized."
Posted by: Caliban at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (DrC22)
55
Hot damn I hate autocucumber with a passion.
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (BDTqv)
56
OK. A two points here.
At some point -- and that point is coming soon and hard -- the Republican Party must be treated as what it is, a second enemy party dominated by corporate liberalism.
Welcome to the party, pal! Mind you that exit was way back there about 4-6 years or so, and the time "out" might be considerably less than 20 years (GOP: Founded 1854, first President inaugurated 1861). Also, the sooner we get it done, the sooner it's over with.
But now, this:
But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
I tend to be a rather bloody-minded and occasionally vindictive individual, but as a practicing conservative I'd like to respond to this thought as follows:
Fuck. That. Shit.
An attitude like that is an inherently coercive one--"all interests bound to my will!" That's how the Left works, and it absolutely should be complete anathema to us who claim to believe in liberty!
Obliterate the privileges they've build into the system, by all means. Effectively enslave them to your political aims? No sale, Ace.
Remember: Any mechanism we create should be viewed in the light of what happens when they get control of it. Dig?
At some point -- and that point is coming soon and hard -- the Republican Party must be treated as what it is, a second enemy party dominated by corporate liberalism.
Welcome to the party, pal! Mind you that exit was way back there about 4-6 years or so, and the time "out" might be considerably less than 20 years (GOP: Founded 1854, first President inaugurated 1861). Also, the sooner we get it done, the sooner it's over with.
But now, this:
But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
I tend to be a rather bloody-minded and occasionally vindictive individual, but as a practicing conservative I'd like to respond to this thought as follows:
Fuck. That. Shit.
An attitude like that is an inherently coercive one--"all interests bound to my will!" That's how the Left works, and it absolutely should be complete anathema to us who claim to believe in liberty!
Obliterate the privileges they've build into the system, by all means. Effectively enslave them to your political aims? No sale, Ace.
Remember: Any mechanism we create should be viewed in the light of what happens when they get control of it. Dig?
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (DT3rQ)
57
"The 1%"? Oh Christ, if we're adopting the language of Occupy, the end is nigh.
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (2cS/G)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (HSmrB)
59
So, if there are Democrats, Corporate Republicans, and a new conservative third party faction, how in the world would democrats lose power?
The ONLY way for a third party to succeed, in my estimation, is to coalesce with reasonably minded independents. And, they aren't gonna do that with SoCons...they just aren't. And most non-corporate Republicans are SoCons.
The ONLY way for a third party to succeed, in my estimation, is to coalesce with reasonably minded independents. And, they aren't gonna do that with SoCons...they just aren't. And most non-corporate Republicans are SoCons.
Posted by: TickledPink at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (TMe1n)
60
You cannot effectively tax the rich.
The rich have the ability to take their toys and leave. Example France when they imposed a 75% tax bracket.
The rich have the ability to take their toys and leave. Example France when they imposed a 75% tax bracket.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (sWgE+)
61
The goal of the Teaparty is not another party, it is to take over the Republican party.
Posted by: maddogg at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (xWW96)
62
42
and the Nightmare Option of simply conceding the country to the liberals for 20 disastrous years.
It
only took the GOP 6 years from forming to electing their 1st President,
and I think people are more pissed off Now, than then.
==========
June.
When the Black-Robes Jackasses tell us the 1st Amendment doesn't include freedom of religion, speech or association.
and the Nightmare Option of simply conceding the country to the liberals for 20 disastrous years.
It
only took the GOP 6 years from forming to electing their 1st President,
and I think people are more pissed off Now, than then.
==========
June.
When the Black-Robes Jackasses tell us the 1st Amendment doesn't include freedom of religion, speech or association.
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (ZvKdv)
63
This is a religious war, with conservatives at the new Jews, or as heretics.
We fail to worship incoherent big government and the dogmas of the left. We're not to good on power-seeking or on submission. And without conservatives, the US will be worse than Venezuela for it's citizens.
We fail to worship incoherent big government and the dogmas of the left. We're not to good on power-seeking or on submission. And without conservatives, the US will be worse than Venezuela for it's citizens.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (u82oZ)
64
Can the GOP get its own Andrew Jackson?
Posted by: SH at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (gmeXX)
65
Welcome to the House of Fun
Welcome to the lion's den
Temptation's on his way
Welcome to the House of -- Fun
Welcome to the House of Fun
Welcome to the lion's den
Temptation's on his way
Welcome to the House of -- Fun
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (kdS6q)
66
OT (sorry!):
I just attempted to call Marquette University to see if instructors there are really allowed to discuss student grades and attendance with the media. I am a college instructor and I would be immediately fired if I did such a thing. It is a violation of FERPA.
Unfortunately, I chickened out.
I just attempted to call Marquette University to see if instructors there are really allowed to discuss student grades and attendance with the media. I am a college instructor and I would be immediately fired if I did such a thing. It is a violation of FERPA.
Unfortunately, I chickened out.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (81V/7)
67
48 Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 12, 2015 11:55 AM (LA7Cm)
The funny thing is never has an epoch shattering/birthing event been fought over stakes so small...
you look back at the %s in play and are left with "lol wut?"
The Americans rebelled over ~1-3% taxes based on the principle FUCK YOU GIVE US SEATS IN PARLIAMENT OR GFYS"
and the Brits engaged in these corporatist raids b/c the Crown was terrified of leveraging less than 2% GDP in deficit spending...
now "in fairness"(hat tip Poppin' Fresh) England was desperately trying not to be the economic clusterfuck Fwance and Spain had become...
but really the stakes were SO SMALL and yet our forebears fought.
The funny thing is never has an epoch shattering/birthing event been fought over stakes so small...
you look back at the %s in play and are left with "lol wut?"
The Americans rebelled over ~1-3% taxes based on the principle FUCK YOU GIVE US SEATS IN PARLIAMENT OR GFYS"
and the Brits engaged in these corporatist raids b/c the Crown was terrified of leveraging less than 2% GDP in deficit spending...
now "in fairness"(hat tip Poppin' Fresh) England was desperately trying not to be the economic clusterfuck Fwance and Spain had become...
but really the stakes were SO SMALL and yet our forebears fought.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (/4AZU)
68
Unfortunately, I chickened out.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (81V/7)
You can do it!
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 11:58 AM (81V/7)
You can do it!
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 11:59 AM (GQ8sn)
69
Yes, that is a great idea. Let's screw with the Constitution and replace it with the sort of system that led to Augusto Pinochet or Adolf Hitler coming to power with 1/3 of the vote.
There's no need to replace our system, the progtards have already done that by ignoring the Constitution.
They're doing anything they want to now. The spineless effetes in the GOP have already signaled that they too have abandoned our laws and are aiding and abetting the radical far left in their illegal activities.
#WASTF
There's no need to replace our system, the progtards have already done that by ignoring the Constitution.
They're doing anything they want to now. The spineless effetes in the GOP have already signaled that they too have abandoned our laws and are aiding and abetting the radical far left in their illegal activities.
#WASTF
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at February 12, 2015 11:59 AM (0HooB)
70
The corporatists think we can import an unlimited number of Latin Americans and not have a Latin American political economy.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at February 12, 2015 11:59 AM (nFdGS)
71
boarder security? Whatta we running here, a rooming house?
Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 12, 2015 11:59 AM (XmOA9)
72
Hot damn I hate autocucumber with a passion.
Is there no way to turn it off? Seriously, all these comments from phones is making my head spin.
Hot damn I hate autocucumber with a passion.
Is there no way to turn it off? Seriously, all these comments from phones is making my head spin.
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 11:59 AM (Ae7K+)
73
June.
--
Oh, and that is also when you will find out which politicians are for freedom and which are for slavery to the whims of the federal government.
Because the only response to that ruling is the Andrew Jackson response--let them enforce and specifically refuse to recognize it.
--
Oh, and that is also when you will find out which politicians are for freedom and which are for slavery to the whims of the federal government.
Because the only response to that ruling is the Andrew Jackson response--let them enforce and specifically refuse to recognize it.
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (ZvKdv)
74
54 Posted by: Caliban at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (DrC22)
The megacorps control the lay of the land through lobbying and morphing hyperregulatory fiat into a weapon against the mids and below...
Comcast can survive the 338 pages of doom...
a small local ISP may not.
The megacorps control the lay of the land through lobbying and morphing hyperregulatory fiat into a weapon against the mids and below...
Comcast can survive the 338 pages of doom...
a small local ISP may not.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (/4AZU)
75
60 You cannot effectively tax the rich.
The rich have the ability to take their toys and leave. Example France when they imposed a 75% tax bracket.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (sWgE+)
Yep. Instead, the penalty trickles down to the rest of us in higher costs and lower wages.
The rich have the ability to take their toys and leave. Example France when they imposed a 75% tax bracket.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (sWgE+)
Yep. Instead, the penalty trickles down to the rest of us in higher costs and lower wages.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (81V/7)
76
You guys realize that I'm a conservative don't you?
*hic*
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (HSmrB)
What has six legs, ten million air miles and smells like old tuna, Alex?
*hic*
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (HSmrB)
What has six legs, ten million air miles and smells like old tuna, Alex?
Posted by: Huma Abedin Edmund Weiner at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (8ZskC)
77
I got back and forth on this issue for one big reason; 3rd parties don't work, that is unless it helps Democrats.
Though I understand the frustration and anger because I'm there too. There is just no viable 3rd party.
Though I understand the frustration and anger because I'm there too. There is just no viable 3rd party.
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (R5HRU)
78
On the one hand, I really, really want a third party. If we had an Ewok as the mascot, that's just gravy.
On the other hand, I don't think I want one that takes an agnostic view on whether or not anyone should be manipulated by "taxing til it hurts".
On the other hand, I don't think I want one that takes an agnostic view on whether or not anyone should be manipulated by "taxing til it hurts".
Posted by: Jenny Has Mixed Feelings About This Post at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (U0H7B)
79
Second look at Adhocracy?
Posted by: Dirty Randy at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (jjaLl)
80
All restaurants are Taco Bell.
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (evdj2)
81
Many who call themselves "conservative" are really actually corporatist.
*********
Yep. I've thought this same thing for quite some time, and it was positively affirmed after the last Congress was seated and all the new peeps we'd elected in 2010 immediately capitulated to the "RINOs" on leadership, and amnesty. Reaffirmed on their push for amnesty and all their "act of love" bullshittery. The GOP is the Chamber of Commerce party. Sometimes the COC aligns with us when it's in the interests of large businesses, but they're not for us, or the little guy, at all.
*********
Yep. I've thought this same thing for quite some time, and it was positively affirmed after the last Congress was seated and all the new peeps we'd elected in 2010 immediately capitulated to the "RINOs" on leadership, and amnesty. Reaffirmed on their push for amnesty and all their "act of love" bullshittery. The GOP is the Chamber of Commerce party. Sometimes the COC aligns with us when it's in the interests of large businesses, but they're not for us, or the little guy, at all.
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (KkVB6)
82
On the effects of a third party: It could actually be pulled off successfully, but only if there is also a fourth party, namely a viable Socialist party draining money and activists from the Democrats. Get that and you can pull off creating a New Constitution (or whatever) party.
On corporatism: These neo-fascist corporations make defending capitalism really, really hard. Take Comcast: it's great that they make gobs of money selling something people want but it sucks that they do so through naked corporatism and outright corruption. (Plus their customer service is positively punitive, but that's a separate issue.) The question is, how do you suppress the rent-seekers without damaging capitalism in general? I don't know.
On corporatism: These neo-fascist corporations make defending capitalism really, really hard. Take Comcast: it's great that they make gobs of money selling something people want but it sucks that they do so through naked corporatism and outright corruption. (Plus their customer service is positively punitive, but that's a separate issue.) The question is, how do you suppress the rent-seekers without damaging capitalism in general? I don't know.
Posted by: joncelli at February 12, 2015 12:01 PM (RD7QR)
83
EC, will you do it for me? *bats eyes* I can give you some numbers.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:01 PM (81V/7)
84
I'm perfectly happy with letting the 1% fail.
Remember TARP?
The problem really is that the Left is even more Corporatist than the GOP.
I had Twitter convos with OWS supporters and they defended TARP and the bank bailouts.
It's like I said about European socialists. The Left thinks education and government is the good and right selector of the ruling class. And they needs them a ruling class to validate them. How would they know if they're good people otherwise?
Remember TARP?
The problem really is that the Left is even more Corporatist than the GOP.
I had Twitter convos with OWS supporters and they defended TARP and the bank bailouts.
It's like I said about European socialists. The Left thinks education and government is the good and right selector of the ruling class. And they needs them a ruling class to validate them. How would they know if they're good people otherwise?
Posted by: AmishDude at February 12, 2015 12:01 PM (L2xDv)
85
The goal of the Teaparty is not another party, it is to take over the Republican party.
Time to reassess those goals then...
Time to reassess those goals then...
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented Christian Objectivist at February 12, 2015 12:02 PM (DT3rQ)
86
EC, will you do it for me? *bats eyes* I can give you some numbers.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:01 PM (81V/7)
Don't be afraid. You are simply looking for clarification, not trying to dig up dirt.
Give them my name if you want.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:01 PM (81V/7)
Don't be afraid. You are simply looking for clarification, not trying to dig up dirt.
Give them my name if you want.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:02 PM (GQ8sn)
87
I'm for the free movement of labor in general, but corporatism is certainly a part of it.
They get huge subsidies for themselves, write regulations themselves, and beg for bailouts when the fuck up.
I'm done kneeling for corporations.
They get huge subsidies for themselves, write regulations themselves, and beg for bailouts when the fuck up.
I'm done kneeling for corporations.
Posted by: HoboJerk, The State Loves You at February 12, 2015 12:02 PM (FA3Z7)
88
Ace, you may have noticed that inherent to leftism is firewalling us from ever undoing their designs. Give them the country unchecked for 20 years, and Utah will be a reliably blue state.
Posted by: crrr6 at February 12, 2015 12:02 PM (Vqcn4)
89
This X 10000000000
Posted by: CanaDave at February 12, 2015 12:02 PM (4CKN3)
90
The question is, how do you suppress the rent-seekers without damaging capitalism in general? I don't know.
I do.
So did Shakespeare.
I do.
So did Shakespeare.
Posted by: AmishDude at February 12, 2015 12:02 PM (L2xDv)
91
Islamic Rage Boy,
If you can create a "live CD" or "live USB" Linux image you can probably at least get all your important files off that machine before the HDD shuffles off this mortal coil.
Try Trinity, Knoppix or Hiren.
But even a debian LXDE image will let you get in and e-mail your files to yourself.
If you can create a "live CD" or "live USB" Linux image you can probably at least get all your important files off that machine before the HDD shuffles off this mortal coil.
Try Trinity, Knoppix or Hiren.
But even a debian LXDE image will let you get in and e-mail your files to yourself.
Posted by: DrSteve at February 12, 2015 12:03 PM (wwKgz)
92
Shorter Ace: Democrat and Republican corporatists agree on everything except the tax level.
That's why I think the right place for Jeb Bush is as Veep on Hillary's ticket. On what other issue do they disagree than taxes?
There is a huge open spot in the market for a GOP populist.
That's why I think the right place for Jeb Bush is as Veep on Hillary's ticket. On what other issue do they disagree than taxes?
There is a huge open spot in the market for a GOP populist.
Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2015 12:03 PM (LISuA)
93
1. Balanced budget amendment.
-
We don't need that. Just impose a rule that congressional salaries, expenses and pensions will be paid last and only if doing so would not create or increase a budget deficit. Our budget would be balanced before you could say Michael Moore sucks donkey dongs.
-
We don't need that. Just impose a rule that congressional salaries, expenses and pensions will be paid last and only if doing so would not create or increase a budget deficit. Our budget would be balanced before you could say Michael Moore sucks donkey dongs.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at February 12, 2015 12:03 PM (lKSyl)
94
1. Balanced budget amendment.
-
We don't need that. Just impose a rule that congressional salaries, expenses and pensions will be paid last and only if doing so would not create or increase a budget deficit. Our budget would be balanced before you could say Michael Moore sucks donkey dongs.
-
We don't need that. Just impose a rule that congressional salaries, expenses and pensions will be paid last and only if doing so would not create or increase a budget deficit. Our budget would be balanced before you could say Michael Moore sucks donkey dongs.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at February 12, 2015 12:03 PM (lKSyl)
95
Point of order.
Hitler was never elected to anything.
He was appointed Chancelor after Bismarks death by Hindenburg.
Point of order.
Hitler was never elected to anything.
He was appointed Chancelor after Bismarks death by Hindenburg.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (NaV4z)
96
NR attributes Jon Stewart's clown nose on, clown noise of, to Treacher. I always thought it was Ace.
Posted by: bourbonchicken at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (2kfKV)
97
Great, great post, Ace -- you articulated something I felt but didn't know how to say. Dems have the very rich and the poor, the GOP loves the big corporations, and NOBODY gives one ratfart about the middle class.
Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (hslAc)
98
He picks up in the early 1900s as the Republican Party discovers a new primary mission, now that its old primary mission (ending slavery) had been achieved.
-----
This is an interesting point, and I think one that is somewhat relevant to today. There are many that insist that the primary mission of the GOP should be to support and advance the pro-life position - or more broadly to be defenders of innocent life (at both ends of the life spectrum). This is in keeping with the GOP's founding moral principal.
Others disagree, and not unreasonably so. But history has shown that when a party, specifically the GOP, lost its moral compass, it also lost something else. The party has to serve a purpose. Mission creep isn't something that happens just to leftist organizations.
There is probably more here to expound on, and should give those of us pro-lifers who believe that one of the primary purposes (though not only purpose) of the GOP some additional arguments to support our position.
-----
This is an interesting point, and I think one that is somewhat relevant to today. There are many that insist that the primary mission of the GOP should be to support and advance the pro-life position - or more broadly to be defenders of innocent life (at both ends of the life spectrum). This is in keeping with the GOP's founding moral principal.
Others disagree, and not unreasonably so. But history has shown that when a party, specifically the GOP, lost its moral compass, it also lost something else. The party has to serve a purpose. Mission creep isn't something that happens just to leftist organizations.
There is probably more here to expound on, and should give those of us pro-lifers who believe that one of the primary purposes (though not only purpose) of the GOP some additional arguments to support our position.
Posted by: SH at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (gmeXX)
99
They get huge subsidies for themselves, write regulations themselves, and beg for bailouts when the fuck up.
I'm done kneeling for corporations.
Come to my website and sign the "Ready for Injun Lizzie" online petition!
I'm done kneeling for corporations.
Come to my website and sign the "Ready for Injun Lizzie" online petition!
Posted by: Elizabeth "Three Wolf Moon" Warren at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (TIIx5)
101
NR attributes Jon Stewart's clown nose on, clown noise of, to Treacher. I always thought it was Ace.
Posted by: bourbonchicken at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (2kfKV)
It was Treacher.
Posted by: bourbonchicken at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (2kfKV)
It was Treacher.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:05 PM (GQ8sn)
102
I can't keep up with y'all, dammit...
I want to reply to about five of you!
But I'll be so late, that it'll be irrelevant to the discussion - just one more reason that I usually lurk...
I want to reply to about five of you!
But I'll be so late, that it'll be irrelevant to the discussion - just one more reason that I usually lurk...
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:05 PM (BDTqv)
103
101 Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:05 PM (GQ8sn)
Treacher was/is a hell of a wit when he is on task...
I hope he's well.
Treacher was/is a hell of a wit when he is on task...
I hope he's well.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:05 PM (/4AZU)
Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at February 12, 2015 12:06 PM (SCcgT)
105
I can't keep up with y'all, dammit...
I want to reply to about five of you!
But I'll be so late, that it'll be irrelevant to the discussion - just one more reason that I usually lurk...
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:05 PM (BDTqv)
Open up another 4 tabs.
Easy.
I want to reply to about five of you!
But I'll be so late, that it'll be irrelevant to the discussion - just one more reason that I usually lurk...
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:05 PM (BDTqv)
Open up another 4 tabs.
Easy.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:06 PM (GQ8sn)
106
But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the
conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the
conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
Or is this another one of those times where I just didn't get Ace's joke?
conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the
conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
Or is this another one of those times where I just didn't get Ace's joke?
Posted by: DaveA at February 12, 2015 12:06 PM (DL2i+)
107
The GOP as it's currently constituted is in reformable from within.
Look how moved the GOP was when Cantor was taken out.
It didn't even register as a blip.
It has to be a third party with clearly stated principles that must be rigorously enforced lest we get what commonly happens with "tea party" and "libertarian" candidates.
Look how moved the GOP was when Cantor was taken out.
It didn't even register as a blip.
It has to be a third party with clearly stated principles that must be rigorously enforced lest we get what commonly happens with "tea party" and "libertarian" candidates.
Posted by: Kreplach at February 12, 2015 12:06 PM (jaxCP)
108
102 Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:05 PM (BDTqv)
Ignore me...it keeps my post count and ego down....
Lots of folks ignore me these days.
Ignore me...it keeps my post count and ego down....
Lots of folks ignore me these days.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:06 PM (/4AZU)
109
off topic but must mention: I hope people in the media try asking politicians (and especially Josh Earnest) about this one: from weaselzippers:
The student representative council at the Durban University of Technology in South Africa urged the institution's management to expel its Jewish students, especially those who don't support the Palestinian cause, the Daily News newspaper reported Wednesday.
The student representative council at the Durban University of Technology in South Africa urged the institution's management to expel its Jewish students, especially those who don't support the Palestinian cause, the Daily News newspaper reported Wednesday.
Posted by: mallfly at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (QZVz5)
110
"52
The only way to achieve this punishingly high tax code would be to elect
the socialists again, in even higher percentages than in 2008.
Then of course, we'd have to keep the corporations that are here from leaving.....
But hey, at least we'd have boarder security.
Of course, it would be the East Bloc type security, designed to keep people in, not out.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (XmOA9)"
I think you misunderstand what Ace proposed. He is not advocating the taxing of the top 1%. He is merely pointing out that it takes political capital and effort to protect them from the socialists who want to tax them and that perhaps it is not worth the resources to protect a group of people who are aligned with out political opponents in so many areas.
Perhaps it is time to step back and let them look after their own interests. In some ways it is like blacks and the Democrats. No matter how badly Democrats treat black voters, they continue to vote overwhelmingly for Democrat candidates. Perhaps it is time for a renegotiation of who's political goals will be prioritized.
The only way to achieve this punishingly high tax code would be to elect
the socialists again, in even higher percentages than in 2008.
Then of course, we'd have to keep the corporations that are here from leaving.....
But hey, at least we'd have boarder security.
Of course, it would be the East Bloc type security, designed to keep people in, not out.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 12, 2015 11:56 AM (XmOA9)"
I think you misunderstand what Ace proposed. He is not advocating the taxing of the top 1%. He is merely pointing out that it takes political capital and effort to protect them from the socialists who want to tax them and that perhaps it is not worth the resources to protect a group of people who are aligned with out political opponents in so many areas.
Perhaps it is time to step back and let them look after their own interests. In some ways it is like blacks and the Democrats. No matter how badly Democrats treat black voters, they continue to vote overwhelmingly for Democrat candidates. Perhaps it is time for a renegotiation of who's political goals will be prioritized.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (KDbAT)
111
105 Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:06 PM (GQ8sn)
four?
Anyway I used to have four or six thread open at once.
four?
Anyway I used to have four or six thread open at once.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (/4AZU)
112
I think we GOP types get smeared because we're pro biz in the sense of supporting open markets, not that we want corporations to benefit from corporate welfare. Ace is right, most corps are too happy to fire america for cheap mexicans. Well, they aren't upholding their side of the bargain and it's hurting us. so fuck em. We need to focus on the middle class and shit.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (mBWI7)
Posted by: DaveA at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (DL2i+)
114
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 11:46 AM (/4AZU)
Sven, as much as it pains me to say this, I'm leaning more towards dissolving every single day. Left coast morons and
-ettes aside, I could live with California if they could handle keeping their kooky shit inside their damn state border. But go talk to some lefties some time. They simply cannot abide the idea that anyone should be left alone to decide for themselves how to live. Their ideas are superior absolute truth and should be forced upon everyone else. I don't know how we maintain any kind of national unity when there is a good chunk of 25-30% of the population that insist on ruling everyone else, or else.
Sven, as much as it pains me to say this, I'm leaning more towards dissolving every single day. Left coast morons and
-ettes aside, I could live with California if they could handle keeping their kooky shit inside their damn state border. But go talk to some lefties some time. They simply cannot abide the idea that anyone should be left alone to decide for themselves how to live. Their ideas are superior absolute truth and should be forced upon everyone else. I don't know how we maintain any kind of national unity when there is a good chunk of 25-30% of the population that insist on ruling everyone else, or else.
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (KkVB6)
115
Any way to frame a moratorium on immigration as a reparations bill?
Posted by: Furious George at February 12, 2015 12:08 PM (UlJ3l)
116
Anyway I used to have four or six thread open at once.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (/4AZU)
It's either open up 4 more tabs, or get 4 more computers.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (/4AZU)
It's either open up 4 more tabs, or get 4 more computers.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:08 PM (GQ8sn)
117
8 The Republican Leadership is just the Good Cop in the Good-cop-bad-cop ruse of the Socialist Fusion Party.
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (evdj2)
that is true.
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 11:45 AM (evdj2)
that is true.
Posted by: Shoey at February 12, 2015 12:08 PM (jdOk/)
118
What has six legs, ten million air miles and smells like old tuna, Alex?
Posted by: Huma Abedin Edmund Weiner at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (8ZskC)
----------------------------------
What difference, at this point, does it make?11/!!?!?!?!??
*hic*
What has six legs, ten million air miles and smells like old tuna, Alex?
Posted by: Huma Abedin Edmund Weiner at February 12, 2015 12:00 PM (8ZskC)
----------------------------------
What difference, at this point, does it make?11/!!?!?!?!??
*hic*
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 12, 2015 12:08 PM (HSmrB)
119
My two cents.
Yeah.... lets get after those damned 1% ers. Im sure *our* brand of class warfare and socialist populism is much better than say Elizabeth Warrens brand of class warfare.
How about EVERYBODY gets to keep what they earn. Ditch the income tax and move to soemthing that taxes on the consumtion side. ... value added, national sales tax... whatever.
THAT way.... "powers that be" are not able to use the Federal Government to punish people they dont like.... like 1% ers.
Kinda the way the founding founder envisioned it.
My two cents.
Yeah.... lets get after those damned 1% ers. Im sure *our* brand of class warfare and socialist populism is much better than say Elizabeth Warrens brand of class warfare.
How about EVERYBODY gets to keep what they earn. Ditch the income tax and move to soemthing that taxes on the consumtion side. ... value added, national sales tax... whatever.
THAT way.... "powers that be" are not able to use the Federal Government to punish people they dont like.... like 1% ers.
Kinda the way the founding founder envisioned it.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 12:09 PM (NaV4z)
120
114 Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:07 PM (KkVB6)
We are watching the murder of Federalism....
That's all this is.
The sidebar post I was on about in the headline thread is an alleged Republican Urban Surfing on Federalism's Coffin....
I'm tired and I am convinced my great grandkids will be 3d class citizens in this nascent shithole.
We are watching the murder of Federalism....
That's all this is.
The sidebar post I was on about in the headline thread is an alleged Republican Urban Surfing on Federalism's Coffin....
I'm tired and I am convinced my great grandkids will be 3d class citizens in this nascent shithole.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:10 PM (/4AZU)
121
Restore the Theocracy of 1787!
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 12:10 PM (evdj2)
122
General Electric = British East India Trading Company
Posted by: CanaDave at February 12, 2015 12:10 PM (4CKN3)
123
I could live with California if they could handle keeping their kooky shit inside their damn state border.
Mandy, and there is the rub, they can't. Colorado is moving quickly toward California liberalism, Oregon, Washington all are heading that way due mostly to CA. transplants.
Mandy, and there is the rub, they can't. Colorado is moving quickly toward California liberalism, Oregon, Washington all are heading that way due mostly to CA. transplants.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:11 PM (sWgE+)
124
Everyone says "we need a new party" but no one does anything about it. Why? Because they know that it will become the new Reform Party or the new Constitution Party. There are enough parties already so why would a new one do any better?
Posted by: JJStone at February 12, 2015 12:11 PM (nbgPm)
125
"1. Balanced budget amendment.
2. Congressional term limits."
1. BBA is a decent idea, although there might have to be some sort of contingency plan (maybe ten year repayments) that could not be just used all the time. I'm not sure the best way to do that.
2. Term limits were votedin in a lot of states and overturned by the supreme court.
3. I can't decide about pacs. I don't actually think that's the problem, but I would be happy to remove individual contribution limits, which would actually probably take care of the pacs anyway.
"1. Balanced budget amendment.
2. Congressional term limits."
1. BBA is a decent idea, although there might have to be some sort of contingency plan (maybe ten year repayments) that could not be just used all the time. I'm not sure the best way to do that.
2. Term limits were votedin in a lot of states and overturned by the supreme court.
3. I can't decide about pacs. I don't actually think that's the problem, but I would be happy to remove individual contribution limits, which would actually probably take care of the pacs anyway.
Posted by: Lea at February 12, 2015 12:11 PM (lIU4e)
Posted by: DaveA at February 12, 2015 12:12 PM (DL2i+)
127
"95
Point of order.
Hitler was never elected to anything.
He was appointed Chancelor after Bismarks death by Hindenburg.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (NaV4z)"
While that is technically true, Bismark died in 1890 and Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 so I am not sure what you are saying.
Point of order.
Hitler was never elected to anything.
He was appointed Chancelor after Bismarks death by Hindenburg.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (NaV4z)"
While that is technically true, Bismark died in 1890 and Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 so I am not sure what you are saying.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 12, 2015 12:12 PM (KDbAT)
128
>> I could live with California if they could handle keeping their kooky shit inside their damn state border.
And that's the problem, isn't it?
These CA progressives have been enacting all their crazy stuff, CA has become unlivable, so they move to CO, TX, wherever, and vote for the same damn things that ruined CA.
Freakin' locusts!!!
And that's the problem, isn't it?
These CA progressives have been enacting all their crazy stuff, CA has become unlivable, so they move to CO, TX, wherever, and vote for the same damn things that ruined CA.
Freakin' locusts!!!
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:12 PM (WvpaS)
129
122 Posted by: CanaDave at February 12, 2015 12:10 PM (4CKN3)
Very much so, I have made the generally unpopular observation that WW2 was not so much a battle of Democracies versus Totalitarians as it was "What level of Totalitarianism wins the battle royal?"
Turns out FDR's brand did fairly well....but it was not about freedom in any way shape or form beyond "we'll allow you <-> that much"...
a nation that gave three fucks about liberty wouldn't have tolerated Stalin's crank getting sucked.
Very much so, I have made the generally unpopular observation that WW2 was not so much a battle of Democracies versus Totalitarians as it was "What level of Totalitarianism wins the battle royal?"
Turns out FDR's brand did fairly well....but it was not about freedom in any way shape or form beyond "we'll allow you <-> that much"...
a nation that gave three fucks about liberty wouldn't have tolerated Stalin's crank getting sucked.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:12 PM (/4AZU)
130
We don't need that. Just impose a rule that congressional salaries, expenses and pensions will be paid last and only if doing so would not create or increase a budget deficit.
I maintain that we do.
It's within our rights to alter or abolish anything that the government does that reduces our freedom.
Here's my short list of stuff that needs to be done ASAP:
1. Balance the budget and institute a flat tax of no more than 10%. Impose hard jail time for anybody who proposes $1 of spending above that except during a declared war. If that just so happens to mean that any federal departments are closed, well, tough shit for them.
2. Congress will no longer be able to exempt themselves from any laws. Period.
3. Our borders will be sealed along with a moratorium on any new immigration for a minimum of five years. Illegals will be strongly encouraged to go back home and get in line like everyone else.
4. The Constitution will be administered as it's written. No longer will idiotic decisions be made in opposition to the plain wording of it (yeah, I'm looking at the totally fucked up 14th Amendment decision that somehow created "anchor babies.").
This is just where we need to start to reclaim our birthrights. There is more.
I maintain that we do.
It's within our rights to alter or abolish anything that the government does that reduces our freedom.
Here's my short list of stuff that needs to be done ASAP:
1. Balance the budget and institute a flat tax of no more than 10%. Impose hard jail time for anybody who proposes $1 of spending above that except during a declared war. If that just so happens to mean that any federal departments are closed, well, tough shit for them.
2. Congress will no longer be able to exempt themselves from any laws. Period.
3. Our borders will be sealed along with a moratorium on any new immigration for a minimum of five years. Illegals will be strongly encouraged to go back home and get in line like everyone else.
4. The Constitution will be administered as it's written. No longer will idiotic decisions be made in opposition to the plain wording of it (yeah, I'm looking at the totally fucked up 14th Amendment decision that somehow created "anchor babies.").
This is just where we need to start to reclaim our birthrights. There is more.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at February 12, 2015 12:13 PM (0HooB)
131
There must be a class when the new congress people show up for work.
"You have arrived. Join us and you can have moar money and power than you ever dreamed".
Either that or something is in the water.
"You have arrived. Join us and you can have moar money and power than you ever dreamed".
Either that or something is in the water.
Posted by: Bob from table9 at February 12, 2015 12:13 PM (WNERA)
132
I don't really want or need any political party to be my friend.
I'd just like a party to belong to that will be an enemy of Socialism, and otherwise leave me the hell alone.
I'd just like a party to belong to that will be an enemy of Socialism, and otherwise leave me the hell alone.
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 12:13 PM (7ObY1)
133
and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports liberal policies
Pantless morons in good standing excepted I would hope.
Pantless morons in good standing excepted I would hope.
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at February 12, 2015 12:13 PM (zauWW)
134
@98
I agree, but unfortunately at some point, we have to concede when things are a losing battle. Yes, things can be cyclical, but do we really think pro-life and pro-marriage people will ever be in the majority again, or even close? Sadly, I doubt it.
That doesn't mean we don't personally have convictions. That doesn't mean that we quit fighting for the right thing, and try to convince others to follow our example.
I have said that I will never vote for a pro-choice candidate, in the presidential election. And, I never have. But, I understand very much it is a losing battle. I just don't know when, or if, I will ever be able to pull the trigger for the good of the country, even if it is against my personal faith.
I agree, but unfortunately at some point, we have to concede when things are a losing battle. Yes, things can be cyclical, but do we really think pro-life and pro-marriage people will ever be in the majority again, or even close? Sadly, I doubt it.
That doesn't mean we don't personally have convictions. That doesn't mean that we quit fighting for the right thing, and try to convince others to follow our example.
I have said that I will never vote for a pro-choice candidate, in the presidential election. And, I never have. But, I understand very much it is a losing battle. I just don't know when, or if, I will ever be able to pull the trigger for the good of the country, even if it is against my personal faith.
Posted by: TickledPink at February 12, 2015 12:13 PM (TMe1n)
135
92 There is a huge open spot in the market for a GOP populist.
Posted by: MTF
________________________
Yes! The conservative elites--if indeed they are conservative--need to get over their aversion to the word "populist". What is left-wing about wanting to stop corporate welfare and the manipulation of our currency and the entire economy by the Fed and Wall Street?
Posted by: MTF
________________________
Yes! The conservative elites--if indeed they are conservative--need to get over their aversion to the word "populist". What is left-wing about wanting to stop corporate welfare and the manipulation of our currency and the entire economy by the Fed and Wall Street?
Posted by: Furious George at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (UlJ3l)
136
EC, I did it!
Talked with Stacey in the communications department and she said she would pass my observation along to the communication team.
Talked with Stacey in the communications department and she said she would pass my observation along to the communication team.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (81V/7)
137
but the counter point is this: GOP at mercy of congressional GOP last 6+ years with no GOP president. So, we get the Cantor-vision.
Will a conservative ish GOP president move party back in line?
Will a conservative ish GOP president move party back in line?
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (mBWI7)
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (R5HRU)
139
14 Nice post Ace, the real conundrum for me is whether conservatives should focus their efforts on an ART V/dissolution push or a legit 3d party.
Surely there are enough conservatives to work on both issues at the same time.
Surely there are enough conservatives to work on both issues at the same time.
Posted by: despair at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (dcY7v)
140
ace, your cry of despair and desperation is echoed in many quarters here.
Of course Lenin's "What is to be done?" question dominates.
Amidst the confusion and the impossibility of knowing the full reality across the country, it DOES seem there is a gap between a solid majority of the citizenry on basic questions and the "representative" govt. that now, increasingly, rules and not governs.
Marriage redefinition, "gun control", ruination of the already govt.-distorted health care system, lawlessness (amnesty). Only on guns has the "system" not veered - defiantly, in some cases - directly counter to the clearpopular will. And that I rack up to an isolated, idiosyncratic, and misleading artifact of the largely rogue judicial system. By one single f***ing vote on the SCOTUS, our august judicial system has allowed an obvious, common sense reading of an explicit and clear constitutionaldirective to be partially, in some cases laboriously,observed.
The shiny new process by which even state constitutions can be undone or amended against the state electorate's will (Prop. Eight/standing fiasco) by a handful of faithless state officials and the collapsed judicial system is just the latest and greatest of a trend: the responsive, "representative" part of the system has been squeezed out.
ace, your cry of despair and desperation is echoed in many quarters here.
Of course Lenin's "What is to be done?" question dominates.
Amidst the confusion and the impossibility of knowing the full reality across the country, it DOES seem there is a gap between a solid majority of the citizenry on basic questions and the "representative" govt. that now, increasingly, rules and not governs.
Marriage redefinition, "gun control", ruination of the already govt.-distorted health care system, lawlessness (amnesty). Only on guns has the "system" not veered - defiantly, in some cases - directly counter to the clearpopular will. And that I rack up to an isolated, idiosyncratic, and misleading artifact of the largely rogue judicial system. By one single f***ing vote on the SCOTUS, our august judicial system has allowed an obvious, common sense reading of an explicit and clear constitutionaldirective to be partially, in some cases laboriously,observed.
The shiny new process by which even state constitutions can be undone or amended against the state electorate's will (Prop. Eight/standing fiasco) by a handful of faithless state officials and the collapsed judicial system is just the latest and greatest of a trend: the responsive, "representative" part of the system has been squeezed out.
Posted by: rhomboid at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (afQnV)
141
Come to my website and sign the "Ready for Injun Lizzie" online petition!
Posted by: Elizabeth "Three Wolf Moon" Warren at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (8ZskC)
Funny thing is Lizzie is a corporatist whore. She's loves her some ExIm Bank!
Posted by: Elizabeth "Three Wolf Moon" Warren at February 12, 2015 12:04 PM (8ZskC)
Funny thing is Lizzie is a corporatist whore. She's loves her some ExIm Bank!
Posted by: HoboJerk, The State Loves You at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (FA3Z7)
142
EC, I did it!
Talked with Stacey in the communications department and she said she would pass my observation along to the communication team.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (81V/7)
Good girl! I knew you could do it!!!
Talked with Stacey in the communications department and she said she would pass my observation along to the communication team.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (81V/7)
Good girl! I knew you could do it!!!
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (GQ8sn)
143
On corporatism: These neo-fascist corporations make defending capitalism really, really hard. Take Comcast: it's great that they make gobs of money selling something people want but it sucks that they do so through naked corporatism and outright corruption. (Plus their customer service is positively punitive, but that's a separate issue.) The question is, how do you suppress the rent-seekers without damaging capitalism in general? I don't know.
**********
Well, the problem there is that the fed actually *does* have the power to break up monopolies (and companies like Comcast are most definitely a monopoly), they just largely choose to pretend they don't. And when there is an issue of a company being so damn large it's impossible to deny it's a monopoly, they're so damn in bed with them at that point that it's impossible to get them to do their jobs.
**********
Well, the problem there is that the fed actually *does* have the power to break up monopolies (and companies like Comcast are most definitely a monopoly), they just largely choose to pretend they don't. And when there is an issue of a company being so damn large it's impossible to deny it's a monopoly, they're so damn in bed with them at that point that it's impossible to get them to do their jobs.
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (KkVB6)
144
Light bulbs.
Leftists loved dictating what we may buy, and loved the faux eco-freak win. (more mercury the better!)
Corporations loved the mandate forcing people to abandon a cheap, reliable 19th century technology in favor of stuff they hold patents on. No one was interested in their crap, and abandoning incandescents would mean that Walmart or someone would start up a plant, crank out old bulbs and seize the market.
Rethuglickkkkkkkans not only allowed it, they instigated it.
Notice who was left out? Us.yet again, the peasantry was ignored.
Leftists loved dictating what we may buy, and loved the faux eco-freak win. (more mercury the better!)
Corporations loved the mandate forcing people to abandon a cheap, reliable 19th century technology in favor of stuff they hold patents on. No one was interested in their crap, and abandoning incandescents would mean that Walmart or someone would start up a plant, crank out old bulbs and seize the market.
Rethuglickkkkkkkans not only allowed it, they instigated it.
Notice who was left out? Us.yet again, the peasantry was ignored.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (Spluw)
145
Tar and Feather Party!
Lie to us or betray us and suffer the consequences of the name.
We will have nobody run for office. None would be so bold and fearless. We are simply the threat hanging over the heads of those who would betray the public trust for personal gain. As of 2015 there are almost no living representatives or senators who would be disqualified from taking a tar and feather bath and being run out of Washington D.C. on a splintered rail. As a culture we allow these cads to form the equivalent of organized crime and destroy the fabric of what allows this nation to become great. Socialism does not work and never can so long as there a human beings involved. It appears we are an ignorant nation. We have allowed this to be. Only the citizens can repair this. Cease listening to the lies of government and put it back into its proper place; defend the borders and levy tariffs on foreign goods.
Anything more and one invites Evil into the world and our lives. Only we can save it.
Lie to us or betray us and suffer the consequences of the name.
We will have nobody run for office. None would be so bold and fearless. We are simply the threat hanging over the heads of those who would betray the public trust for personal gain. As of 2015 there are almost no living representatives or senators who would be disqualified from taking a tar and feather bath and being run out of Washington D.C. on a splintered rail. As a culture we allow these cads to form the equivalent of organized crime and destroy the fabric of what allows this nation to become great. Socialism does not work and never can so long as there a human beings involved. It appears we are an ignorant nation. We have allowed this to be. Only the citizens can repair this. Cease listening to the lies of government and put it back into its proper place; defend the borders and levy tariffs on foreign goods.
Anything more and one invites Evil into the world and our lives. Only we can save it.
Posted by: Odins Acolyte at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (DjVB5)
146
Preach it, bruh.
Posted by: Joe Mama at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (4r3sd)
Posted by: Confused at February 12, 2015 12:15 PM (7ObY1)
148
I didn't leave the GOP - the GOP left me.
Posted by: Ed Anger at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (RcpcZ)
149
Small minor nit:
Corporatist/m - I not a fan of the post-modern usage of the word meaning of and for large business interests. That's the mangled version of the word that came from the Left in order to deceptively try to tie the GOP to fascism.
The original meaning is meant to describe the incorporation of all facets of a nation state under a central government or party. "All in the State, nothing outside of the State, nothing against the State."
Of course it doesn't matter what label we apply. The general populace isn't really that interested in any kind of discussion of political history or semantics. Voters just don't give a shit. They want to be flattered, told that more free shit is just around the corner, and that good intentions are perfectly good substitutes for miserable outcomes.
Corporatist/m - I not a fan of the post-modern usage of the word meaning of and for large business interests. That's the mangled version of the word that came from the Left in order to deceptively try to tie the GOP to fascism.
The original meaning is meant to describe the incorporation of all facets of a nation state under a central government or party. "All in the State, nothing outside of the State, nothing against the State."
Of course it doesn't matter what label we apply. The general populace isn't really that interested in any kind of discussion of political history or semantics. Voters just don't give a shit. They want to be flattered, told that more free shit is just around the corner, and that good intentions are perfectly good substitutes for miserable outcomes.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (DMJw2)
150
139 Posted by: despair at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (dcY7v)
No I don't think so...
Conservatives are the GOP's African-Americans...
people to be fucked over while the party takes its payoffs from its corporate buddies and the Chamber of Commerce.
I'm tired of being taken for granted and I think we're never going to get our way.
No I don't think so...
Conservatives are the GOP's African-Americans...
people to be fucked over while the party takes its payoffs from its corporate buddies and the Chamber of Commerce.
I'm tired of being taken for granted and I think we're never going to get our way.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (/4AZU)
151
131 There must be a class when the new congress people show up for work.
"You have arrived. Join us and you can have moar money and power than you ever dreamed".
Either that or something is in the water.
Posted by: Bob from table9 at February 12, 2015
Well McConnell and Boehner, coughed up a green lugi and spit in our face and the newly elected GOPers. The new guys came into office with their hands tied.
Doesn't really matter as they would be good for about 2 years when D.C. corrupts them sure as shit.
A 3rd party will not win the big prize. But perhaps a 3rd party will reign in the GOPe to a degree. Damn, that almost sounds optimistic.
"You have arrived. Join us and you can have moar money and power than you ever dreamed".
Either that or something is in the water.
Posted by: Bob from table9 at February 12, 2015
Well McConnell and Boehner, coughed up a green lugi and spit in our face and the newly elected GOPers. The new guys came into office with their hands tied.
Doesn't really matter as they would be good for about 2 years when D.C. corrupts them sure as shit.
A 3rd party will not win the big prize. But perhaps a 3rd party will reign in the GOPe to a degree. Damn, that almost sounds optimistic.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (l1zOH)
152
I've been arguing we've been at this point since the Republicans nominated Romney in 2012.
In subsequent elections the Republican party nominated Americans most notable amnesty proponent and the man who gave us Obamacare 1.0.
I would suggest though that rather then immediately forming a true third party that we look to a shadow party.
As a shadow party we could endorse conservatives and attempt to take down troublesome DIABLOs like Renee Ellmers.
A large portion of the reason that we have two leftwing parties now is that conservatives have shown they will by and large vote for whoever has an R after their name "because the Democrat will be worse!"
In subsequent elections the Republican party nominated Americans most notable amnesty proponent and the man who gave us Obamacare 1.0.
I would suggest though that rather then immediately forming a true third party that we look to a shadow party.
As a shadow party we could endorse conservatives and attempt to take down troublesome DIABLOs like Renee Ellmers.
A large portion of the reason that we have two leftwing parties now is that conservatives have shown they will by and large vote for whoever has an R after their name "because the Democrat will be worse!"
Posted by: 18-1 at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (78TbK)
153
I'm for a flat tax or a consumption tax.
That would end a lot of this shit.
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (R5HRU)
It would do double duty and dissolve the need for an IRS. Or at least an IRS of the current size it is now.
That would end a lot of this shit.
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:14 PM (R5HRU)
It would do double duty and dissolve the need for an IRS. Or at least an IRS of the current size it is now.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (GQ8sn)
154
Evil of two lessers.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (W5DcG)
155
Have you people finally realized the political process is useless?
The time for Voice has long passed us. It's time for Exit.
The time for Voice has long passed us. It's time for Exit.
Posted by: HoboJerk, The State Loves You at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (FA3Z7)
156
Perhaps it is time to step back and let them look after their own interests. In some ways it is like blacks and the Democrats. No matter how badly Democrats treat black voters, they continue to vote overwhelmingly for Democrat candidates.
Fcuk the GOP plantation.
Perhaps it is time to step back and let them look after their own interests. In some ways it is like blacks and the Democrats. No matter how badly Democrats treat black voters, they continue to vote overwhelmingly for Democrat candidates.
Fcuk the GOP plantation.
Posted by: Ed Anger at February 12, 2015 12:17 PM (RcpcZ)
157
i am not "giving them another election". Seen enough already
Posted by: ebola guy at February 12, 2015 12:17 PM (ZXeJt)
158
that good intentions are perfectly good substitutes for miserable outcomes.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (DMJw2)
See living minimum wage
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (DMJw2)
See living minimum wage
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:17 PM (l1zOH)
159
that good intentions are perfectly good substitutes for miserable outcomes.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (DMJw2)
See living minimum wage
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (DMJw2)
See living minimum wage
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:17 PM (l1zOH)
160
that good intentions are perfectly good substitutes for miserable outcomes.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (DMJw2)
See living minimum wage
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 12:16 PM (DMJw2)
See living minimum wage
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:17 PM (l1zOH)
161
damn
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:18 PM (l1zOH)
162
Will a conservative ish GOP president move party back in line?
No, do you think people like McCain, Graham and others of that strip would give up the gravy train they currently have? Why do you think so main of our elected office die in office after 20,30 40 years in office. Life is to good to give it up.
No, do you think people like McCain, Graham and others of that strip would give up the gravy train they currently have? Why do you think so main of our elected office die in office after 20,30 40 years in office. Life is to good to give it up.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:18 PM (sWgE+)
163
Posted by: TickledPink at February 12, 2015 12:13 PM (TMe1n)
----
I certainly don't think the pro-life position is a losing battle. In fact, I think it is winning - depending on how you define winning. I can't say on the marriage issue yet. The abortion battle has been raging for 50 years. There is definitely a parrallel with the slavery issue. I'm sure at some point, people said that was a losing issue.
My point was that if you do not have a moral issue guiding you, perhaps you are susceptible to undue influence. Ace and Cost provide some evidence to support this. And if that is true, should that not also guide us as to why it is important that another moral issue guide us now?
----
I certainly don't think the pro-life position is a losing battle. In fact, I think it is winning - depending on how you define winning. I can't say on the marriage issue yet. The abortion battle has been raging for 50 years. There is definitely a parrallel with the slavery issue. I'm sure at some point, people said that was a losing issue.
My point was that if you do not have a moral issue guiding you, perhaps you are susceptible to undue influence. Ace and Cost provide some evidence to support this. And if that is true, should that not also guide us as to why it is important that another moral issue guide us now?
Posted by: SH at February 12, 2015 12:18 PM (gmeXX)
164
136
By the way, Stacey was a totally sweet lady. I expected someone accustomed to speaking to media to be somewhat hardened.
By the way, Stacey was a totally sweet lady. I expected someone accustomed to speaking to media to be somewhat hardened.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:19 PM (81V/7)
165
except during a declared war.
Freedom will ALWAYS be at war with Islam til it's "Fixed".
If it costs too much just slow down for a while.
Freedom will ALWAYS be at war with Islam til it's "Fixed".
If it costs too much just slow down for a while.
Posted by: DaveA at February 12, 2015 12:19 PM (DL2i+)
166
By the way, Stacey was a totally sweet lady. I expected someone accustomed to speaking to media to be somewhat hardened.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:19 PM (81V/7)
In all honesty, you probably won't hear back from them. Still, it was nice to see someone catch that and ask questions. We shouldn't just sit there and accept the crap coming from lefties.
Posted by: Mindy at February 12, 2015 12:19 PM (81V/7)
In all honesty, you probably won't hear back from them. Still, it was nice to see someone catch that and ask questions. We shouldn't just sit there and accept the crap coming from lefties.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:20 PM (GQ8sn)
167
I think a few bad figures are completely overshadowing where both the rank and file Republicans and most elected lawmakers stand.
The reason why there wasn't a real amnesty deal is because there was a Republican House. Period Boehner may have wanted such a deal but his caucus pushed back. Is there really any doubt that if Pelosi was speaker Obama would have got his "legal" amnesty passed?
I'm a border hawk, but if I'm being honest this country has always had an open door immigration policy. Republicans liked it for cheap labor and that it undermined labor unions
I really think abandoning the GOP and forming a new 3rd Party would be the ultimate gift to the Left. I also don't think there's any going back once you have one party control. Obama brought this country to the brink in a single election cycle.
The reason why there wasn't a real amnesty deal is because there was a Republican House. Period Boehner may have wanted such a deal but his caucus pushed back. Is there really any doubt that if Pelosi was speaker Obama would have got his "legal" amnesty passed?
I'm a border hawk, but if I'm being honest this country has always had an open door immigration policy. Republicans liked it for cheap labor and that it undermined labor unions
I really think abandoning the GOP and forming a new 3rd Party would be the ultimate gift to the Left. I also don't think there's any going back once you have one party control. Obama brought this country to the brink in a single election cycle.
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:20 PM (obqqs)
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:20 PM (1Y+hH)
169
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:11 PM (sWgE+)
Oh Lord, don't even get me started on the transplants. I'm a native Floridian and I cannot tell you how many NE and left coast lefties flee here escaping the shithole they made for themselves with their incessant meddling, only to immediately spend all their time pissing and moaning about how backward we are because we don't do X like they did back home. Then go home, a-hole!
Oh Lord, don't even get me started on the transplants. I'm a native Floridian and I cannot tell you how many NE and left coast lefties flee here escaping the shithole they made for themselves with their incessant meddling, only to immediately spend all their time pissing and moaning about how backward we are because we don't do X like they did back home. Then go home, a-hole!
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:20 PM (KkVB6)
170
2. Congress will no longer be able to exempt themselves from any laws. Period.
I like this one but as stated previously would like an "up their ass sideways" provision re-worded into something befitting the Constitution.
I like this one but as stated previously would like an "up their ass sideways" provision re-worded into something befitting the Constitution.
Posted by: DaveA at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (DL2i+)
171
"At some point -- and that point is coming soon and hard -- the Republican Party must be treated as what it is, a second enemy party dominated by corporate liberalism."
We're already well into the icepack and taking on water. You're welcome aboard the lifeboat, Ace. Plenty of room for anyone else, too. No hard feelings or told you so's (OK, maybe a couple TYS's).
We're already well into the icepack and taking on water. You're welcome aboard the lifeboat, Ace. Plenty of room for anyone else, too. No hard feelings or told you so's (OK, maybe a couple TYS's).
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (QKIQb)
172
Kelo Vs New London. Notice who lined up to encourage a governmental body to seize private property that was being maintained so that someone rich could benefit?
WTF happened to the deed to the ranch being stolen from the widow?
Both sides did that. Only conservatives fought it.
WTF happened to the deed to the ranch being stolen from the widow?
Both sides did that. Only conservatives fought it.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (Spluw)
173
Sad news about Bob Simon, but Brian Williams called in to say he'd been in a fatal car crash himself in New York in 2006.
Posted by: docweasel at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (DzQH3)
174
kward we are because we don't do X like they did back home. Then go home, a-hole!
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:20
Hope to retire to AZ someday. McCain will be dead and Flake replaced by someone named Jose
It won't matter
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:20
Hope to retire to AZ someday. McCain will be dead and Flake replaced by someone named Jose
It won't matter
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (l1zOH)
175
kward we are because we don't do X like they did back home. Then go home, a-hole!
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:20
Hope to retire to AZ someday. McCain will be dead and Flake replaced by someone named Jose
It won't matter
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:20
Hope to retire to AZ someday. McCain will be dead and Flake replaced by someone named Jose
It won't matter
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (l1zOH)
176
End donatins to politicians...they should all just get the same small, fixed amount to get their message out during elections.
Posted by: CanaDave at February 12, 2015 12:22 PM (4CKN3)
177
Halfrican & EC may be on to something here. it's almost like I've heard this before!
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:22 PM (BDTqv)
178
Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:22 PM (kff5f)
179
Oh Lord, don't even get me started on the transplants. I'm a native Floridian and I cannot tell you how many NE and left coast lefties flee here escaping the shithole they made for themselves with their incessant meddling, only to immediately spend all their time pissing and moaning about how backward we are because we don't do X like they did back home. Then go home, a-hole!
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:20 PM (KkVB6)
That's true for any red state slowly turning purple. Here in NC, we've got a lot of NE'ers coming down to escape their blue state shitholes. But once they get here, they keep voting for stuff that turns a state into a shithole.
They're like damn locusts moving from place to place.
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:20 PM (KkVB6)
That's true for any red state slowly turning purple. Here in NC, we've got a lot of NE'ers coming down to escape their blue state shitholes. But once they get here, they keep voting for stuff that turns a state into a shithole.
They're like damn locusts moving from place to place.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:22 PM (GQ8sn)
180
Congress will no longer be able to exempt themselves from any laws. Period.
Right, do you really see congress doing ANYTHING to limit themselves?
Right, do you really see congress doing ANYTHING to limit themselves?
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:22 PM (sWgE+)
181
The real problem is that any remedy we come up with will be overtaken by events.
Our $18 trillion debt is not going away. The most likely event is that interest rates will have to jump. That means "interest on the debt" will eat up too much of the budget and we're stuck. Because borrowing just means more interest and so on.
There's really no point in figuring out the interim. Our stupid electorate will not be dissuaded from their idiocy.
Our $18 trillion debt is not going away. The most likely event is that interest rates will have to jump. That means "interest on the debt" will eat up too much of the budget and we're stuck. Because borrowing just means more interest and so on.
There's really no point in figuring out the interim. Our stupid electorate will not be dissuaded from their idiocy.
Posted by: AmishDude at February 12, 2015 12:23 PM (L2xDv)
182
I like this one but as stated previously would like an "up their ass sideways" provision re-worded into something befitting the Constitution.
BTW, exempting themselves from the laws they make is already illegal.
But who will challenge them?
Who can challenge them?
BTW, exempting themselves from the laws they make is already illegal.
But who will challenge them?
Who can challenge them?
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at February 12, 2015 12:23 PM (0HooB)
183
Halfrican & EC may be on to something here. it's almost like I've heard this before!
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:22 PM (BDTqv)
You want to know what else would shake the pillars of government?
End withholding.
Otherwise known as EC's Law.
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:22 PM (BDTqv)
You want to know what else would shake the pillars of government?
End withholding.
Otherwise known as EC's Law.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:23 PM (GQ8sn)
184
Mis Hum
8.7
8.7
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:24 PM (BDTqv)
185
As long as that party has hookers, cocaine and truly conservative candidates!
I believe in Jesus, but don't want him as President, or at parties...he can be a real buz-kill.
I believe in Jesus, but don't want him as President, or at parties...he can be a real buz-kill.
Posted by: Paladin at February 12, 2015 12:24 PM (ycm4Q)
186
181 Posted by: AmishDude at February 12, 2015 12:23 PM (L2xDv)
The 18 trillion debt could easily be fixed if we got EPA under control with right to work...
The marxists in the Gaia Watermelon Kult and unions WANT us to die off as a nation...
they think we'll happily all go to a red flag...
break-up is coming one way or the other.
The 18 trillion debt could easily be fixed if we got EPA under control with right to work...
The marxists in the Gaia Watermelon Kult and unions WANT us to die off as a nation...
they think we'll happily all go to a red flag...
break-up is coming one way or the other.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at February 12, 2015 12:24 PM (/4AZU)
187
It would do double duty and dissolve the need for an IRS. Or at least an IRS of the current size it is now.
***
One sign that the Republicans were no longer conservative was that the response to Obama's IRS scandal was not to immediately move to end the IRS.
The productive class, the people who vote R, hate the IRS. Yet even given a damn good reason to get rid f the IRS...the R's did NOTHING.
***
One sign that the Republicans were no longer conservative was that the response to Obama's IRS scandal was not to immediately move to end the IRS.
The productive class, the people who vote R, hate the IRS. Yet even given a damn good reason to get rid f the IRS...the R's did NOTHING.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 12, 2015 12:24 PM (78TbK)
188
The GOP has given the Presidency to the Democrats already, and seem to be planning to do it again.
So we should worry that a third party will make them losers?
So we should worry that a third party will make them losers?
Posted by: blaster at February 12, 2015 12:24 PM (Rx8ML)
189
Sad news about Bob Simon, but Brian Williams called in to say he'd been in a fatal car crash himself in New York in 2006.
RIP Brian Williams.
Sad news about Bob Simon, but Brian Williams called in to say he'd been in a fatal car crash himself in New York in 2006.
RIP Brian Williams.
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 12:24 PM (Ae7K+)
190
There must be a class when the new congress people show up for work.
"You have arrived. Join us and you can have moar money and power than you ever dreamed".
Either that or something is in the water.
----
I think it's a cross between "The Talk" in the novel The Firm, and Gordon Gekko's talk to Bud Fox at lunch....
"You do good, and you get perks....lots and lots of perks"
And then hands him a million dollar check.
"You have arrived. Join us and you can have moar money and power than you ever dreamed".
Either that or something is in the water.
----
I think it's a cross between "The Talk" in the novel The Firm, and Gordon Gekko's talk to Bud Fox at lunch....
"You do good, and you get perks....lots and lots of perks"
And then hands him a million dollar check.
Posted by: @JohnTant at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (PFy0L)
191
Flake replaced by someone named Jose
Eventually everyone will be replaced by someone named Jose.
Eventually everyone will be replaced by someone named Jose.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (W5DcG)
192
Yup.
I don't want any government party or political party to be my friend. That's why God made the imaginary people in the gray box.
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
I don't want any government party or political party to be my friend. That's why God made the imaginary people in the gray box.
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
193
I hereby declare the AllenG Party!
No, seriously, this is necessary. The Republican party, like the Whigs before them, have become part of the problem- at best a "holding action" against the ratchet when in power, and completely ineffectual (at what they promise, at any rate) when in power.
I have said for a while: "At least the Democrats tend to deliver on what they promise." Not so with the Republicans.
No, seriously, this is necessary. The Republican party, like the Whigs before them, have become part of the problem- at best a "holding action" against the ratchet when in power, and completely ineffectual (at what they promise, at any rate) when in power.
I have said for a while: "At least the Democrats tend to deliver on what they promise." Not so with the Republicans.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (kff5f)
194
End donatins to politicians...they should all just get the same small, fixed amount to get their message out during elections.
Posted by: CanaDave
I love this idea.
Posted by: CanaDave
I love this idea.
Posted by: Ever union, PAC, rich clown hiding behind a foundation at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (Spluw)
195
You are preaching to the choir Ace. When the best thing that can be said about the Chamber of Commerce and Lobbyist party is that they are not quite as bad as the libtards, it is time for a new party.
Can't be much worse than the cheese eating surrender monkeys we just elected.
Can't be much worse than the cheese eating surrender monkeys we just elected.
Posted by: 2L at February 12, 2015 12:26 PM (TaO1J)
196
Mis Hum -
I'll amend that to an an 8.9 now that I see your double just beforehand.
I'll amend that to an an 8.9 now that I see your double just beforehand.
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:26 PM (BDTqv)
197
If a third party starts here, can we make the party symbol an Eagle blasting away with assault rifle?
Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at February 12, 2015 12:26 PM (DkXQB)
198
They answer to Chamber of Commerce.
Posted by: Carol at February 12, 2015 12:27 PM (sj3Ax)
199
Hope to retire to AZ someday. McCain will be dead and Flake replaced by someone named Jose
It won't matter
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian
We have the transplants here, except they're from California.
They LOVE to tell us how we're a bunch of rednecks, but they had to leave "perfect" California because a 2 bedroom shit hole costs a million dollars and there's no jobs unless it's in Entertainment or Silicon Valley. Even then, only a tiny fraction do well and can live a comfortable, middle class existence.
I guess our "Redneck" laws are the difference, it's certainly not the weather.
It won't matter
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian
We have the transplants here, except they're from California.
They LOVE to tell us how we're a bunch of rednecks, but they had to leave "perfect" California because a 2 bedroom shit hole costs a million dollars and there's no jobs unless it's in Entertainment or Silicon Valley. Even then, only a tiny fraction do well and can live a comfortable, middle class existence.
I guess our "Redneck" laws are the difference, it's certainly not the weather.
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:27 PM (obqqs)
200
The nice part about pain-in-the-butt people coming to Colorado's mountains is that they build big houses which locals get paid to maintain but most second-homers only spend a few weeks a year actually here.
Everybody else is pretty cool once you get away from the urban areas. Even if they are stoned half the time. And since they all got jobs at the pot farms our unemployment rate is down to 4.0%, yay.
Everybody else is pretty cool once you get away from the urban areas. Even if they are stoned half the time. And since they all got jobs at the pot farms our unemployment rate is down to 4.0%, yay.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:27 PM (1Y+hH)
201
I don't want any government party or political party to be my friend. That's why God made the imaginary people in the gray box.
I don't want the party to be my "friend," but I'd like it if they'd stop being my opposition.
Just sayin.
I don't want the party to be my "friend," but I'd like it if they'd stop being my opposition.
Just sayin.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:27 PM (kff5f)
202
It would do double duty and dissolve the need for an IRS. Or at least an IRS of the current size it is now.
Posted by: EC
Vee zing zhis iz a very very bat idea.
Ja, vee do.
Posted by: EC
Vee zing zhis iz a very very bat idea.
Ja, vee do.
Posted by: IRS SWAT Team at February 12, 2015 12:27 PM (/Ho8c)
203
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
Picture this with red hair you might be looking our Empress: http://goo.gl/noMpUd
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
Picture this with red hair you might be looking our Empress: http://goo.gl/noMpUd
Posted by: physics geek at February 12, 2015 12:28 PM (MT22W)
204
I breakfast on prunes because Dad breakfasted on prunes.
Posted by: Todd Chasington-Tallye at February 12, 2015 12:28 PM (a3NCX)
205
If a third party starts here, can we make the party symbol an Eagle blasting away with assault rifle?
A Honey Badger, duh.
A Honey Badger, duh.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:28 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: Bruce J. at February 12, 2015 12:28 PM (iQIUe)
207
About time Ace.
Posted by: Search and destroy at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (1isJI)
208
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
********
Yep. And that's exactly how we're described. I actually saw a meme floating around recently, the thrust of which was that righties are so awful that we only oppose abortion is that we want more people born so we can send them off to die as soldiers when they grow up.
I effing flipped my lid over that one.
********
Yep. And that's exactly how we're described. I actually saw a meme floating around recently, the thrust of which was that righties are so awful that we only oppose abortion is that we want more people born so we can send them off to die as soldiers when they grow up.
I effing flipped my lid over that one.
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (KkVB6)
209
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
"People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
"People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (GQ8sn)
210
There's really no point in figuring out the interim. Our stupid electorate will not be dissuaded from their idiocy.
And therein lies the problem. I'm all in favor of telling Weepy Boehner and La Tortuga to pound sand for their apostasy, but it is a fact that we here simply don't represent an American majority anymore. The parasites outnumber the hosts and they like the arrangement they have. If you doubt that, see '08 and '12.
Maybe they'll come to their senses, but I'm not counting on it.
And therein lies the problem. I'm all in favor of telling Weepy Boehner and La Tortuga to pound sand for their apostasy, but it is a fact that we here simply don't represent an American majority anymore. The parasites outnumber the hosts and they like the arrangement they have. If you doubt that, see '08 and '12.
Maybe they'll come to their senses, but I'm not counting on it.
Posted by: pep at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (YXmuI)
211
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
---
This this this.
Leave me the hell alone.
Let me keep what I earn.
Let me leave what I earn to my heirs.
Stop telling me whats good for me and whats bad for me.
As a government.... stop picking winners and losers. Thats what markets are for.
Social justice is something you make for your self. Nobody gives it to you.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
---
This this this.
Leave me the hell alone.
Let me keep what I earn.
Let me leave what I earn to my heirs.
Stop telling me whats good for me and whats bad for me.
As a government.... stop picking winners and losers. Thats what markets are for.
Social justice is something you make for your self. Nobody gives it to you.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (NaV4z)
212
If a third party starts here, can we make the party symbol an Eagle blasting away with assault rifle?
Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at February 12, 2015 12:26 PM (DkXQB)
I suggest this:
http://bit.ly/1B2IShD
Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at February 12, 2015 12:26 PM (DkXQB)
I suggest this:
http://bit.ly/1B2IShD
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (mf5HN)
213
Institute "None of the above" on all ballots.
Considering requiring a majority on general elections.
no open primaries.
Fuck New Hampshire. Scrap the current primary schedule. Corn junkies in Iowa and whoinHellknowswhat in NH get to lead off?
Considering requiring a majority on general elections.
no open primaries.
Fuck New Hampshire. Scrap the current primary schedule. Corn junkies in Iowa and whoinHellknowswhat in NH get to lead off?
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (Spluw)
214
Ace-
They not only seek to reduce their own cost of wages, but then further demand to be immunized against the higher taxes needed to compensate the out-of-work Americans their preferred policies create.[italics removed]
=====
And who owns the MSM and why do they hire known fabulists? This is a rhetorical question.
Drudge headline to a linked article:
"IRS to give illegals refunds for prior years -- when they didn't pay taxes!"
To break the MSM blockade, conservative Republicans must nominate a charismatic candidate with 95%> name recognition and a solid, vetted, conservative CV. The nominal GOP 1% would rather vote for the Dem than a conservative, anyway.
They not only seek to reduce their own cost of wages, but then further demand to be immunized against the higher taxes needed to compensate the out-of-work Americans their preferred policies create.[italics removed]
=====
And who owns the MSM and why do they hire known fabulists? This is a rhetorical question.
Drudge headline to a linked article:
"IRS to give illegals refunds for prior years -- when they didn't pay taxes!"
To break the MSM blockade, conservative Republicans must nominate a charismatic candidate with 95%> name recognition and a solid, vetted, conservative CV. The nominal GOP 1% would rather vote for the Dem than a conservative, anyway.
Posted by: mrp at February 12, 2015 12:30 PM (JBggj)
215
When the best thing that can be said about the Chamber of Commerce and
Lobbyist party is that they are not quite as bad as the libtards, it is
time for a new party.
***
I hope the conservatives in congress sat down with the CoC and told them that if shamensty passed that they would join the left in supporting a "living wage" for the new "cheap workers" the CoC was hoping to get.
The point for the CoC is to lower wages so if you take that point away you might just get them to act in a more amenable manner.
Lobbyist party is that they are not quite as bad as the libtards, it is
time for a new party.
***
I hope the conservatives in congress sat down with the CoC and told them that if shamensty passed that they would join the left in supporting a "living wage" for the new "cheap workers" the CoC was hoping to get.
The point for the CoC is to lower wages so if you take that point away you might just get them to act in a more amenable manner.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 12, 2015 12:30 PM (78TbK)
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:30 PM (R5HRU)
217
Friends? There are no friends in politics.
Posted by: @votermom at February 12, 2015 12:30 PM (cbfNE)
218
(yeah, I'm looking at the totally fucked up 14th Amendment decision that somehow created "anchor babies.").
Fruit of the poisoned tree.
You don't get to profit from someone elses illegality.
Fruit of the poisoned tree.
You don't get to profit from someone elses illegality.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 12, 2015 12:30 PM (z0tIa)
219
I suggest this:
http://bit.ly/1B2IShD
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (mf5HN)
::shoves chocolate truffles USB port::
http://bit.ly/1B2IShD
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (mf5HN)
::shoves chocolate truffles USB port::
Posted by: physics geek at February 12, 2015 12:30 PM (MT22W)
220
"Will a conservative ish GOP president move party back in line?"
"Ish" wouldn't cut it. There's so much resistance to changing politics as usual in both parties that you'd need to start from the hardest small government position and negotiate back from that. You'd need someone with Reagan levels of popular support to push back against recalcitrant lower office holders in their own party
Basically Jeb Bush in reverse - someone selected against the wishes of the donor class, with enormous base support, who expressly declared war on the entrenched incumbecrats and their cronies, pushing policies to vastly reduce the impact government has on your daily life.
And even then, how much time, money and political capital would they have to expend against their own party?
Up until 2012, I was in the same camp with Ace re: a third party. I'm now convinced that while it will take years of building a new party, and Progs will run amok with their GOP cronies in the interim, the only admittedly longshot chance we have to keep America from turning into a European style socialist country, and likely ultimately splitting up to boot, is to take the third party option.
"Ish" wouldn't cut it. There's so much resistance to changing politics as usual in both parties that you'd need to start from the hardest small government position and negotiate back from that. You'd need someone with Reagan levels of popular support to push back against recalcitrant lower office holders in their own party
Basically Jeb Bush in reverse - someone selected against the wishes of the donor class, with enormous base support, who expressly declared war on the entrenched incumbecrats and their cronies, pushing policies to vastly reduce the impact government has on your daily life.
And even then, how much time, money and political capital would they have to expend against their own party?
Up until 2012, I was in the same camp with Ace re: a third party. I'm now convinced that while it will take years of building a new party, and Progs will run amok with their GOP cronies in the interim, the only admittedly longshot chance we have to keep America from turning into a European style socialist country, and likely ultimately splitting up to boot, is to take the third party option.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (QKIQb)
221
The Republican Party, while far preferable to the unchecked liberalism of the Democrats, is not all that conservative.
The problem is, however, the country is not really all that conservative.
Ace - you and most people here look at politics through very conservative eyes. That's why Cruz and Walker get 50-60% in polls for President here on AoS, but 10-15% in polls in the real world.
Most people are somewhere between Very Conservative and Very Liberal.
Maybe we do need more parties, so each person can feel they are not having to hold their nose all the time when voting.
For me.. I wish the GOP would abandon the corporatist leanings and move towards a more populist message.
The problem is, however, the country is not really all that conservative.
Ace - you and most people here look at politics through very conservative eyes. That's why Cruz and Walker get 50-60% in polls for President here on AoS, but 10-15% in polls in the real world.
Most people are somewhere between Very Conservative and Very Liberal.
Maybe we do need more parties, so each person can feel they are not having to hold their nose all the time when voting.
For me.. I wish the GOP would abandon the corporatist leanings and move towards a more populist message.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (4+IgA)
222
>>Everybody else is pretty cool once you get away from the urban areas.
Did you see that Google just won approval of a four building "campus" in downtown Boulder? Ugh, bring on more of the CA freaks!
Did you see that Google just won approval of a four building "campus" in downtown Boulder? Ugh, bring on more of the CA freaks!
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (WvpaS)
223
Stephen King, in his book "On Writing", gave a description of a writer as he saw it. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "A writer is the guy that goes out to scout the area; he gets the lay of the land, then comes back and reports on what he saw."
This came to mind when a few comments mentioned how many "good" people go to Washington and immediately become the same piece of shit he was elected to replace.
I would be very interested in a politician that would, after being elected, come back and "report what he saw." And I mean everything; names, dates, what was said, everything- to let us know how that cesspool called Washington really works.
This came to mind when a few comments mentioned how many "good" people go to Washington and immediately become the same piece of shit he was elected to replace.
I would be very interested in a politician that would, after being elected, come back and "report what he saw." And I mean everything; names, dates, what was said, everything- to let us know how that cesspool called Washington really works.
Posted by: Dirty Randy at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (jjaLl)
224
i think Burr had the right idea. Form another Union.
Posted by: ebola guy at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (ZXeJt)
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (Ae7K+)
226
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
That's mostly what Conservatives want. And we'll never completely get it.
But it would be nice if there were an *actual* party of Small Government and Federalism.
If someone is going to tell me how my kids have to be educated, it d*mn well better not be some idiot half a continent (or more, in some cases) away.
That's mostly what Conservatives want. And we'll never completely get it.
But it would be nice if there were an *actual* party of Small Government and Federalism.
If someone is going to tell me how my kids have to be educated, it d*mn well better not be some idiot half a continent (or more, in some cases) away.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (kff5f)
227
When does Hollowguy jump in to accuse Drew of being a rabble rouser, then question why Ace keeps him on, before realizing that Ace wrote this?
Posted by: kbdabear at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (GrXXa)
228
A Honey Badger, duh.
A honey badger flying a Warthog.
Shooting a Polar Bear.
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (Ae7K+)
Smoking a cigar and drinking Val U Rite.
A honey badger flying a Warthog.
Shooting a Polar Bear.
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (Ae7K+)
Smoking a cigar and drinking Val U Rite.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:32 PM (GQ8sn)
229
With a Lolcat nose-art
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 12:32 PM (Ae7K+)
230
righties are so awful that we only oppose abortion is that we want more
people born so we can send them off to die as soldiers when they grow
up.
***
So in liberal logic land then, eating veal is totes animal rights, but eating "free range" chicken would not be?
people born so we can send them off to die as soldiers when they grow
up.
***
So in liberal logic land then, eating veal is totes animal rights, but eating "free range" chicken would not be?
Posted by: 18-1 at February 12, 2015 12:32 PM (78TbK)
231
I keep saying it: The lawyer class is the problem. They are the Second Estate. Crush the lawyers, crush the rent-seeking.
Posted by: AmishDude at February 12, 2015 12:32 PM (L2xDv)
232
I don't want the party to be my "friend," but I'd like it if they'd stop being my opposition.
Just sayin.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:27 PM (kff5f)
I have no hopes that my sage advice about the lube will be heeded. At this point, can they stop adding sand?
Just sayin.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:27 PM (kff5f)
I have no hopes that my sage advice about the lube will be heeded. At this point, can they stop adding sand?
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:33 PM (mf5HN)
233
Most conservatives are aware the GOPe is not our friend....shouldn't this article be aimed at JackStraw and.....maybe one or two others who think Boehner and McConnell will start kicking ass soon because they have the votes in both houses of congress?
Are you gonna take McConnell's* word when he said he wants to crush the tea party? He was totes kidding guys. He's really super conservative guys. Syrias.
*pays off some more democrats in Mississippi
Most conservatives are aware the GOPe is not our friend....shouldn't this article be aimed at JackStraw and.....maybe one or two others who think Boehner and McConnell will start kicking ass soon because they have the votes in both houses of congress?
Are you gonna take McConnell's* word when he said he wants to crush the tea party? He was totes kidding guys. He's really super conservative guys. Syrias.
*pays off some more democrats in Mississippi
Posted by: That Guy at February 12, 2015 12:33 PM (5CPT1)
234
I have no hopes that my sage advice about the lube will be heeded. At this point, can they stop adding sand?
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:33 PM (mf5HN)
Sounds like a really bad pron movie.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:33 PM (mf5HN)
Sounds like a really bad pron movie.
Posted by: physics geek at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (MT22W)
235
Isn't it odd that this "dump the Rs" talk has grown over the last 7-10 years but yet we just elected more Rs than ever to congress?
Apparently we talk a good game and then quietly go vote for Rs. It wasn't the Ds that elected those people.
Apparently we talk a good game and then quietly go vote for Rs. It wasn't the Ds that elected those people.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (1Y+hH)
236
>>"IRS to give illegals refunds for prior years -- when they didn't pay taxes!"
Um, how is that even legal?
Um, how is that even legal?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (WvpaS)
237
"But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the
conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the
conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests."
"Ah, and there's the rub."
Getting it to that point which we both know is going to take a political rebellion or revolution, your choice, for neither will be pretty and will last for years.
I fear for the Republic, because it is in its end days and I know I will not live to see the new one's birth.
conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the
conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests."
"Ah, and there's the rub."
Getting it to that point which we both know is going to take a political rebellion or revolution, your choice, for neither will be pretty and will last for years.
I fear for the Republic, because it is in its end days and I know I will not live to see the new one's birth.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (74McK)
238
The other problem is that 1% class doesn't really see themselves as Americans.
They're "Citizens of the World".
Fine. Get the fuck out.
They're "Citizens of the World".
Fine. Get the fuck out.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (oFCZn)
239
Yeah Ace I understand the sentiment, but another progressive or 2 in the White House and all that will be left to us is Revolution and violence. Sorry but that is how I see it
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2015 12:35 PM (rDqRv)
240
Saw this upthread, and it is key: End withholding.
And let's end this crap of having the EITC as a refundable credit. You can carry it forward and apply it to future tax liabilities.
And let's end this crap of having the EITC as a refundable credit. You can carry it forward and apply it to future tax liabilities.
Posted by: Furious George at February 12, 2015 12:35 PM (UlJ3l)
241
192 Yup.
I don't want any government party or political party to be my friend. That's why God made the imaginary people in the gray box.
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
--------------------
This.
To me, is the definition of conservatism.
I don't want any government party or political party to be my friend. That's why God made the imaginary people in the gray box.
I want to be left alone. That's it. Leave me alone. It is insane to me that I am some type of fire breathing radical for daring to assert that I just want everyone to get off my damn lawn and leave me the hell alone.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:25 PM (mf5HN)
--------------------
This.
To me, is the definition of conservatism.
Posted by: shredded chi at February 12, 2015 12:35 PM (BDTqv)
242
Um, how is that even legal?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (WvpaS)
L'état, c'est moi.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (WvpaS)
L'état, c'est moi.
Posted by: The Ruling Party at February 12, 2015 12:35 PM (MT22W)
243
Did you see that Google just won approval of a four building "campus" in downtown Boulder? Ugh, bring on more of the CA freaks!
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (WvpaS)
Boulder is fabulous. It keeps a lot of loons in the same little spot which is easy to avoid. They have to cross the Continental Divide to get near me.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (WvpaS)
Boulder is fabulous. It keeps a lot of loons in the same little spot which is easy to avoid. They have to cross the Continental Divide to get near me.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:35 PM (1Y+hH)
244
Um, how is that even legal?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (WvpaS)
EITC aka income re-distribution.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:34 PM (WvpaS)
EITC aka income re-distribution.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:36 PM (GQ8sn)
245
>>Isn't it odd that this "dump the Rs" talk has grown over the last 7-10
years but yet we just elected more Rs than ever to congress?
Not really. We want to dump the Rs because they've moved to the left. But they've moved left because the Dems have moved really far to the left.
I would rather an R than a D, period. That doesn't mean I love every R I vote for.
years but yet we just elected more Rs than ever to congress?
Not really. We want to dump the Rs because they've moved to the left. But they've moved left because the Dems have moved really far to the left.
I would rather an R than a D, period. That doesn't mean I love every R I vote for.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:36 PM (WvpaS)
246
Apparently we talk a good game and then quietly go vote for Rs. It wasn't the Ds that elected those people.
In some cases it was, actually.
But I'll also point out the dearth of options. It is true that R > D. It's just that's such a low bar that a paralytic ant could clear it.
That's why a 3rd (serious) Party needs to form. Maybe the "Independent Party of America" and "Constitution Party" and those others could get together and say "You know what, we agree on 98% of things. Can we set aside the other 2% and try to make some real gains in State Houses and State Legislatures?"
In some cases it was, actually.
But I'll also point out the dearth of options. It is true that R > D. It's just that's such a low bar that a paralytic ant could clear it.
That's why a 3rd (serious) Party needs to form. Maybe the "Independent Party of America" and "Constitution Party" and those others could get together and say "You know what, we agree on 98% of things. Can we set aside the other 2% and try to make some real gains in State Houses and State Legislatures?"
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:36 PM (kff5f)
247
222 >>Did you see that Google just won approval of a four building "campus" in downtown Boulder? Ugh, bring on more of the CA freaks!
Posted by: Lizzy
_________
California freaks in Boulder? The net effect of that will mean that Boulder will become more conservative.
Posted by: Lizzy
_________
California freaks in Boulder? The net effect of that will mean that Boulder will become more conservative.
Posted by: Furious George at February 12, 2015 12:36 PM (UlJ3l)
248
I like how some combinations of alphanumeric characters-unexpectedly!- creates graphical characters. Maybe I should start keeping a list.
Posted by: physics geek at February 12, 2015 12:36 PM (MT22W)
249
This is why I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012, in a Red state that supported Romney, so no I didn't help elect Obama. Johnson was a much better two term governor and much better candidate than Romney, but he didn't got froze out of the debates so we got to listen to Santorum, Gingrich, and Romney argue over who was most for limited government (hint: none of them) while Ron Paul did his thing.
I really hope the good parts of the GOP have woken up so we don't get stuck choosing between Hillary and a male version of Hillary. I was interested in Walker til he started raving about more boots on the ground in the Middle East. Right now unless it's Rand Paul who wins the nomination, I'll happily vote for Gary Johnson again. I was done holding my nose after McCain in 08 (still can't believe I voted for that guy). But the GOP has lost me, and they can't get me back without major changes.
I really hope the good parts of the GOP have woken up so we don't get stuck choosing between Hillary and a male version of Hillary. I was interested in Walker til he started raving about more boots on the ground in the Middle East. Right now unless it's Rand Paul who wins the nomination, I'll happily vote for Gary Johnson again. I was done holding my nose after McCain in 08 (still can't believe I voted for that guy). But the GOP has lost me, and they can't get me back without major changes.
Posted by: Rob Westbrook at February 12, 2015 12:37 PM (yj0bo)
250
But I sell vegan, organic, vax free, free range, antibiotic free, swedesh masaged goat milk and cheese for $43usd/ pound so I get a exemption from this yucky ness
Posted by: Mary Clogenstien from a goat farm/dairy in battleboro, Vermont at February 12, 2015 12:37 PM (W6iIX)
251
I suggest this:
http://bit.ly/1B2IShD
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (mf5HN)
I saw a pretty neat shopped pic of a Raptor holding an AR while riding a shark that I thought would be a cool logo, but AtC may have beaten it with this one.
http://bit.ly/1B2IShD
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (mf5HN)
I saw a pretty neat shopped pic of a Raptor holding an AR while riding a shark that I thought would be a cool logo, but AtC may have beaten it with this one.
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 12, 2015 12:37 PM (KkVB6)
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at February 12, 2015 12:37 PM (J0IP0)
253
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 12, 2015 12:31 PM (4+IgA)
Really? I keep hearing the whole "We out number them 2 to 1!" meme
Really? I keep hearing the whole "We out number them 2 to 1!" meme
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (R5HRU)
254
I wish the GOP would abandon the corporatist leanings and move towards a more populist message.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
But we saw, and still see, the hatred for the tea party. They were the closest thing that we've had to it.
I realize that its success was a threat to the ruling classes (which includes both parties and the MFM).
We'd have to convince the GOP to embrace such a movement, and stay with it. They've alternated bewtween embracing it, ignoring it and reviling it. Both parties have tried infiltrating it and running fake candidates.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
But we saw, and still see, the hatred for the tea party. They were the closest thing that we've had to it.
I realize that its success was a threat to the ruling classes (which includes both parties and the MFM).
We'd have to convince the GOP to embrace such a movement, and stay with it. They've alternated bewtween embracing it, ignoring it and reviling it. Both parties have tried infiltrating it and running fake candidates.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (Spluw)
255
The ousting of Steve Scalise didn't even make a dent. It's business as usual for the GOP, and business is GOOD!
Frankly, my pessimism runs even deeper than ace's. The reelection of TFG was the end; we are just squabbling over the ruins. Not even an Article V convention can reverse the rot; there are too many blue states for any meaningful reform to get 75% approvals.
There is maybe the slimmest of a chance in electing a firebreather like Ted Cruz, but in all honesty even he would be subsumed by The System. He'd be taken out via impeachment by a bipartisan Senate 2/3 vote if he squashed too many toes. The march of progressivism proceeds on a hundred fronts and at best he could slow down 3 or 4 of them.
Frankly, my pessimism runs even deeper than ace's. The reelection of TFG was the end; we are just squabbling over the ruins. Not even an Article V convention can reverse the rot; there are too many blue states for any meaningful reform to get 75% approvals.
There is maybe the slimmest of a chance in electing a firebreather like Ted Cruz, but in all honesty even he would be subsumed by The System. He'd be taken out via impeachment by a bipartisan Senate 2/3 vote if he squashed too many toes. The march of progressivism proceeds on a hundred fronts and at best he could slow down 3 or 4 of them.
Posted by: GnuBreed at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (w4UpX)
256
The GOP has not ended the Progressive expansion of nearly every aspect of federal government. Has that expansion even been contested? Nope. The EPA, FEC, Education, the politicization of Justice and the IRS, the attempts to control speech and monitor citizens....It just goes on and on, unbroken, day after day. The GOP hasn't fought even one, much less stopped these outrageous acts. Taxes are at an all-time high, as are government transfer payments. Control of our retirement, our health, our schools, our roads, our cars, our houses, our fucking appliances all rests in the hands of some nameless, faceless bureaucrat.
If the GOP wants my vote, they'll have to start working for it. Even a little would be appreciated. And stop calling me names ("wackobirds" for example). There's more than enough tar to go around, or primary fights if tar isn't socially acceptable any longer.
If the GOP wants my vote, they'll have to start working for it. Even a little would be appreciated. And stop calling me names ("wackobirds" for example). There's more than enough tar to go around, or primary fights if tar isn't socially acceptable any longer.
Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (LISuA)
Posted by: Barky's IRS at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (LA7Cm)
258
I would rather an R than a D, period. That doesn't mean I love every R I vote for.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:36 PM (WvpaS)
You said no, but what you wrote proves my point.
d;^)>
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:36 PM (WvpaS)
You said no, but what you wrote proves my point.
d;^)>
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (1Y+hH)
259
I have no hopes that my sage advice about the lube will be heeded. At this point, can they stop adding sand?
I usually get excited when you mention the lube, but the imaginary chafing...
I have no hopes that my sage advice about the lube will be heeded. At this point, can they stop adding sand?
I usually get excited when you mention the lube, but the imaginary chafing...
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (JtwS4)
260
Repeal the 16 and 17th amendments. Pass an additional amendment limiting the Commerce Clause. While we're at it throw in one returning to Lochner-era freedom of contract. Another one for strict term limits. One more requiring a balanced budget.
Back to reality, their would be blood in the streets over any of that. People expect big government.
Back to reality, their would be blood in the streets over any of that. People expect big government.
Posted by: dream big at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (Tj+s6)
261
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:35 PM (1Y+hH)
Just don't get downwind of Boulder if you have to take pee tests.
Just don't get downwind of Boulder if you have to take pee tests.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (sWgE+)
Posted by: Eric Holder at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (W6iIX)
263
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at February 12, 2015 12:37 PM (J0IP0)
But you take all the Ds you can get.
But you take all the Ds you can get.
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (R5HRU)
264
If I (somehow) ever get to be prez, I want those chairs from Dr. No in my Cabinet meeting room. Any Cabinet Head that underperforms or otherwise disappoints me will suddenly be dropped into a flaming pit.
Then their smoking chair will be brought back up for everyone else to see.
Then their smoking chair will be brought back up for everyone else to see.
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:40 PM (GQ8sn)
265
Not really. We want to dump the Rs because they've moved to the left. But they've moved left because the Dems have moved really far to the left.
----
Yeah.... the Overton window is almost out of wall its moved so far.
President Kennedys positions of Anti Communism, tax breaks to stimulate economic growth, and "ask NOT what your country can do for you" would place him to the RIGHT of a lot of Republicans today.
Kennedys policies today are vilified in the Press as "right wing reactionary".
----
Yeah.... the Overton window is almost out of wall its moved so far.
President Kennedys positions of Anti Communism, tax breaks to stimulate economic growth, and "ask NOT what your country can do for you" would place him to the RIGHT of a lot of Republicans today.
Kennedys policies today are vilified in the Press as "right wing reactionary".
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 12:40 PM (NaV4z)
266
Walker destroyed the Unions in Wisconsin. I am hoping that he will do the same to the corrupt-ocrats in DC.
Posted by: jmel at February 12, 2015 12:40 PM (cfFqn)
267
I usually get excited when you mention the lube, but the imaginary chafing...
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (JtwS4)
Well, but, you are a 'Ron and thus know to heed my sage advice.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (JtwS4)
Well, but, you are a 'Ron and thus know to heed my sage advice.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:40 PM (mf5HN)
268
This is why I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012, in a Red state that supported Romney, so no I didn't help elect Obama. Johnson was a much better two term governor and much better candidate than Romney
Then you didn't pay attention to him. He's nutty and liberal.
One example: He was on RedEye and advocated mandating calorie counts on menus and the panel, especially Greg, couldn't believe it. He stood by it.
He wasn't frozen out, he got no support.
Then you didn't pay attention to him. He's nutty and liberal.
One example: He was on RedEye and advocated mandating calorie counts on menus and the panel, especially Greg, couldn't believe it. He stood by it.
He wasn't frozen out, he got no support.
Posted by: AmishDude at February 12, 2015 12:40 PM (L2xDv)
269
In one of those bits of comedy that provides me with great amusement, SI's new "plus-sized" swimsuit model has been receiving hate mail on her website. And she's not getting hate mail because she's too big.
Posted by: junior at February 12, 2015 12:40 PM (UWFpX)
Posted by: EC at February 12, 2015 12:41 PM (GQ8sn)
271
What would a new Conservative Party look like? I just think the same opportunists would jump on board, it's the nature of politicians.
The Libertarian Party is proud of their open border policies, what they want is far worse than any sort of bipartisan deal that's ever been floated around, it would make Jeb Bush blush.
Most of the time when there is a conservative 3rd party, it's focused on radical social conservatism, something along the lines of Christine O'Donnell or Rick Santorum.
What would be great is we had 4-5 major parties, and then I think you could see some interesting coalitions. But that's also a huge risk.
The fact of the matter is, we don't have a 51% conservative country. Most of our problems flow from that, not from Boehner or Mitch McConnell
The Libertarian Party is proud of their open border policies, what they want is far worse than any sort of bipartisan deal that's ever been floated around, it would make Jeb Bush blush.
Most of the time when there is a conservative 3rd party, it's focused on radical social conservatism, something along the lines of Christine O'Donnell or Rick Santorum.
What would be great is we had 4-5 major parties, and then I think you could see some interesting coalitions. But that's also a huge risk.
The fact of the matter is, we don't have a 51% conservative country. Most of our problems flow from that, not from Boehner or Mitch McConnell
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:41 PM (obqqs)
272
How about taking AtC's suggestion? The Get Off My Lawn Party.
Posted by: Furious George at February 12, 2015 12:41 PM (UlJ3l)
273
so
just got off the phone with wonderful caring well meaning but very proggie sister
she is railing about how health insurance companies are the worst. THE WORST
how they are gouging the little guy. How her health care costs have sky rocketed. I told her that's because they are working to drive her off private insurance. She thinks Obamacare is going to save her.
I point out its Obamacare that's making private insurance unaffordable for her. She says that's what "they" are telling me. She says it the insurance companies fault and Obamacare will force them to be more affordable
I say no, they will drive you away to government care eventually. It the plan
She says its the evil health insurance companies. I tell her to look it up. The evil health insurance companies, they wrote Obamacare. They are the biggest fans of Obamacare. That they lobbied heavily for Obamacare. That Obama is in bed with the evil health insurance companies and they are conspiring to get her on government care. That's the plan
it was like I slapped her with a dead fish
so
just got off the phone with wonderful caring well meaning but very proggie sister
she is railing about how health insurance companies are the worst. THE WORST
how they are gouging the little guy. How her health care costs have sky rocketed. I told her that's because they are working to drive her off private insurance. She thinks Obamacare is going to save her.
I point out its Obamacare that's making private insurance unaffordable for her. She says that's what "they" are telling me. She says it the insurance companies fault and Obamacare will force them to be more affordable
I say no, they will drive you away to government care eventually. It the plan
She says its the evil health insurance companies. I tell her to look it up. The evil health insurance companies, they wrote Obamacare. They are the biggest fans of Obamacare. That they lobbied heavily for Obamacare. That Obama is in bed with the evil health insurance companies and they are conspiring to get her on government care. That's the plan
it was like I slapped her with a dead fish
Posted by: ThunderB at February 12, 2015 12:41 PM (zOTsN)
274
>>California freaks in Boulder? The net effect of that will mean that Boulder will become more conservative.
I grew up in Boulder, and yes, it's always been a liberal freakshow. But it used to be more like a hippy-dippy, "peace, man" liberal place that had a lot of conservatives, too. Now it's become junior San Francisco - mostly wealthy, hardcore progressives. And these people are politically active.
I figure Google expanding there will attract other Silicon Valley types, further diluting CO's conservatives.
I grew up in Boulder, and yes, it's always been a liberal freakshow. But it used to be more like a hippy-dippy, "peace, man" liberal place that had a lot of conservatives, too. Now it's become junior San Francisco - mostly wealthy, hardcore progressives. And these people are politically active.
I figure Google expanding there will attract other Silicon Valley types, further diluting CO's conservatives.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:42 PM (WvpaS)
275
"Amnetize" isn't a word. Check the OED and Merriam-Webster. Amnesty is already a verb.
Posted by: Realism at February 12, 2015 12:42 PM (ibvmu)
276
I still like "The Aggrieved Party of the First Part"
Posted by: AltonJackson at February 12, 2015 12:42 PM (2Ayux)
277
How about taking AtC's suggestion? The Get Off My Lawn Party.
Posted by: Furious George at February 12, 2015 12:41 PM (UlJ3l)
---
Add in "....or I'll Shoot." and Im all in.
Posted by: Furious George at February 12, 2015 12:41 PM (UlJ3l)
---
Add in "....or I'll Shoot." and Im all in.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2015 12:43 PM (NaV4z)
Posted by: Dr. Hussein, your Commander-In-Chief!!! at February 12, 2015 12:43 PM (wAQA5)
279
I know I'm getting into this a little late...but my question has always been, "Why do we think it would take 20 years to organise a third party into a second one?"
The Whigs went by the wayside and the original GOP was up and running in essentially two years, and competitive in four. And that was in the 1850s, when they didn't have the internet, etc.
If the GOP fell apart, we would see a new party rise quickly, and in the same way as the GOP originally arose - by piecing together most of the elements of the old party, and adding in some disaffected segments of the Democrat Party that, for reasons more of pride than ideology, didn't want to list themselves as the old party, but didn't necessarily have that same problem with the new.
The Whigs went by the wayside and the original GOP was up and running in essentially two years, and competitive in four. And that was in the 1850s, when they didn't have the internet, etc.
If the GOP fell apart, we would see a new party rise quickly, and in the same way as the GOP originally arose - by piecing together most of the elements of the old party, and adding in some disaffected segments of the Democrat Party that, for reasons more of pride than ideology, didn't want to list themselves as the old party, but didn't necessarily have that same problem with the new.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at February 12, 2015 12:43 PM (YYJjz)
280
The problem is, however, the country is not really all that conservative.
***
Most people aren't political period.
The deciding votes don't come for a candidate because of where he or she actually stands on the issues, but how the LIVs generally view the candidate.
That's how you could have basically the same electorate vote for a moderate like Bush 43 and an extremist like Obama. The LIVs have no clue how either will govern on any particular issue and don't want to know.
In 2004 the LIVs decided Kerry was an elitist asshole and in 2008/12 that McCain and Romney were elitist assholes.
So there is little upside to nominating "moderate" to liberal Republicans without much charisma - the LIVs don't care about the former and vote based on the latter.
If the Rs want to win the presidency they will nominate someone with charisma and right now that would be Cruz, or perhaps Walker, Paul, or Rubio (ugh). Christie, Bush, and their ilk have no chance of winning...
The problem is, however, the country is not really all that conservative.
***
Most people aren't political period.
The deciding votes don't come for a candidate because of where he or she actually stands on the issues, but how the LIVs generally view the candidate.
That's how you could have basically the same electorate vote for a moderate like Bush 43 and an extremist like Obama. The LIVs have no clue how either will govern on any particular issue and don't want to know.
In 2004 the LIVs decided Kerry was an elitist asshole and in 2008/12 that McCain and Romney were elitist assholes.
So there is little upside to nominating "moderate" to liberal Republicans without much charisma - the LIVs don't care about the former and vote based on the latter.
If the Rs want to win the presidency they will nominate someone with charisma and right now that would be Cruz, or perhaps Walker, Paul, or Rubio (ugh). Christie, Bush, and their ilk have no chance of winning...
Posted by: 18-1 at February 12, 2015 12:43 PM (78TbK)
281
http://bit.ly/1B2IShD
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (mf5HN)
------
Oh, yeah! That was my wallpaper a couple of years back. Love that image!!
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM (mf5HN)
------
Oh, yeah! That was my wallpaper a couple of years back. Love that image!!
Posted by: Dirty Randy at February 12, 2015 12:43 PM (jjaLl)
282
"This is why I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012"
He was the guy with a skunk pelt for a toupee in that first primary debate, right?
He was the guy with a skunk pelt for a toupee in that first primary debate, right?
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 12, 2015 12:44 PM (LA7Cm)
283
I know I'm getting into this a little late...but my question has always been, "Why do we think it would take 20 years to organise a third party into a second one?"
The Whigs went by the wayside and the original GOP was up and running in essentially two years, and competitive in four. And that was in the 1850s, when they didn't have the internet, etc.
If the GOP fell apart, we would see a new party rise quickly, and in the same way as the GOP originally arose - by piecing together most of the elements of the old party, and adding in some disaffected segments of the Democrat Party that, for reasons more of pride than ideology, didn't want to list themselves as the old party, but didn't necessarily have that same problem with the new.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at February 12, 2015 12:43 PM
State and local requirements to get on the ballot.
The Whigs went by the wayside and the original GOP was up and running in essentially two years, and competitive in four. And that was in the 1850s, when they didn't have the internet, etc.
If the GOP fell apart, we would see a new party rise quickly, and in the same way as the GOP originally arose - by piecing together most of the elements of the old party, and adding in some disaffected segments of the Democrat Party that, for reasons more of pride than ideology, didn't want to list themselves as the old party, but didn't necessarily have that same problem with the new.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at February 12, 2015 12:43 PM
State and local requirements to get on the ballot.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:44 PM (mf5HN)
284
"One example: He was on RedEye and advocated mandating calorie counts on menus and the panel, especially Greg, couldn't believe it. He stood by it. "
He's a single issue Libertarian.
He's a single issue Libertarian.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at February 12, 2015 12:44 PM (YYJjz)
285
well, let's remember what a major split in the republican party can do: Woodrow Wilson.
Worse, imagine Hillary Pelosi and Reid in control again. Amend the First Amendment, anyone?
Anyway, if the McGovern Democrats could take over the party, why can't the Cruz/Walker/etc types take over the repubs?
Worse, imagine Hillary Pelosi and Reid in control again. Amend the First Amendment, anyone?
Anyway, if the McGovern Democrats could take over the party, why can't the Cruz/Walker/etc types take over the repubs?
Posted by: mallfly at February 12, 2015 12:44 PM (QZVz5)
286
During a heated discussion over gay marriage, CNN morning Anchor Chris Cuomo opined that the unalienable rights endowed to all Americans do not come from God.
Your right, they come from the barrel of a gun. How do you like them apples
Your right, they come from the barrel of a gun. How do you like them apples
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2015 12:44 PM (rDqRv)
287
I agree. Conservatives should go from being one clamoring voice in a coalition based party to being the only voice in their own party.
A voice which will really be ignored (if you think you are ignored now just wait) and no influence whatsoever. Because retreating from the field is the best way of getting any victory.
Seriously.
A voice which will really be ignored (if you think you are ignored now just wait) and no influence whatsoever. Because retreating from the field is the best way of getting any victory.
Seriously.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (hLRSq)
288
The only thing keeping me in the Rep. party at this point is the closed primary system. Other than that, I'd be out of there.
Posted by: Oz at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (DH4Mk)
289
But we saw, and still see, the hatred for the tea party.
Which is right in line with the Preezy's assault on Staples, Hobby Lobby, whites, Christians etc. etc.
They talk a big conservative game.
They all serve me first.
But we saw, and still see, the hatred for the tea party.
Which is right in line with the Preezy's assault on Staples, Hobby Lobby, whites, Christians etc. etc.
They talk a big conservative game.
They all serve me first.
Posted by: Mammon at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (+mPG2)
290
When BFF and I were exchanging letters and reading stuff and becoming libertarian a quarter century ago we recognized the limitations of the big L party and tossed around new names.
The Leave Me Alone Party was my final choice.
When BFF and I were exchanging letters and reading stuff and becoming libertarian a quarter century ago we recognized the limitations of the big L party and tossed around new names.
The Leave Me Alone Party was my final choice.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (JtwS4)
291
well, let's remember what a major split in the republican party can do: Woodrow Wilson.
And Bill Clinton
And Bill Clinton
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (sWgE+)
292
"State and local requirements to get on the ballot."
GOP faced the same thing, didn't they? Probably even more so since we weren't as far along the democratisation/popular sovereignty road at that time.
GOP faced the same thing, didn't they? Probably even more so since we weren't as far along the democratisation/popular sovereignty road at that time.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (YYJjz)
293
Just don't get downwind of Boulder if you have to take pee tests.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (sWgE+)
I don't. Though there are plenty of smokers all over the state. My conservative mostly ranching county voted for Romney by 54-46, and pot 56-44.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:39 PM (sWgE+)
I don't. Though there are plenty of smokers all over the state. My conservative mostly ranching county voted for Romney by 54-46, and pot 56-44.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:46 PM (1Y+hH)
294
it would be better to split their party
Posted by: ThunderB at February 12, 2015 12:46 PM (zOTsN)
295
I remember Gary Johnson being a weird guy
Posted by: thathalfrican at February 12, 2015 12:46 PM (R5HRU)
296
it was like I slapped her with a dead fish
***
Were I you, I would point out Obamacare was passed when the Dems had complete control of the government and is currently the law of the land...then ask her if her health care costs are going up or down.
***
Were I you, I would point out Obamacare was passed when the Dems had complete control of the government and is currently the law of the land...then ask her if her health care costs are going up or down.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 12, 2015 12:47 PM (78TbK)
297
The problem is NOT the parties. The problem is the
first past the post voting system. It needs serious reform to eliminate
once and for all a 2 party system!!!
Posted by: joe dagostino at February 12, 2015 11:43 AM (5vRRq)
Don't even think about proportional representation, or even a preferential ballot. The Left knows how to game these to their advantage. See: Europe.
first past the post voting system. It needs serious reform to eliminate
once and for all a 2 party system!!!
Posted by: joe dagostino at February 12, 2015 11:43 AM (5vRRq)
Don't even think about proportional representation, or even a preferential ballot. The Left knows how to game these to their advantage. See: Europe.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 12, 2015 12:47 PM (cOx5a)
298
well, let's remember what a major split in the republican party can do: Woodrow Wilson.
And Bill Clinton
And me!
And Bill Clinton
And me!
Posted by: Jeb! at February 12, 2015 12:47 PM (+mPG2)
299
Political parties are simply labor unions for the political class: The Republican Party exists for the same reasons as the AFL-CIO and should be opposed for the same reasons.
We don't need a "new political party." We need state-level reform of ballot-access and election rules. For example, it only requires 25 signatures to get a Republican or Democrat on the Tennessee ballot, but other candidates are required to provide 40,000 signatures.
Both major parties have ensconced themselves in the halls of power and pulled the ladder up after them. Breaking that stranglehold may allow the People--by whom, of whom, for whom, etc.--a genuine choice in elections, rather than the traditional "lesser of the two evils" quandary.
We don't need a "new political party." We need state-level reform of ballot-access and election rules. For example, it only requires 25 signatures to get a Republican or Democrat on the Tennessee ballot, but other candidates are required to provide 40,000 signatures.
Both major parties have ensconced themselves in the halls of power and pulled the ladder up after them. Breaking that stranglehold may allow the People--by whom, of whom, for whom, etc.--a genuine choice in elections, rather than the traditional "lesser of the two evils" quandary.
Posted by: Hegemony Cricket at February 12, 2015 12:48 PM (YvRAm)
300
I turn on the Computer and the headline, the headline mind you is "Scott Walker dodges evolution question." I am so f**king sick of this stupid media...
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at February 12, 2015 12:48 PM (Bn6aD)
301
Teh Ewok must have liked the movie. Less than 20 paragraphs.
Can't wait for the review of "50 shades of ghey".
Can't wait for the review of "50 shades of ghey".
Posted by: Paladin at February 12, 2015 12:48 PM (ycm4Q)
302
>>Just don't get downwind of Boulder if you have to take pee tests.
Denver, too. The aging hippies at regular places like the grocery store are the worst - they smell like a college dorm.
Denver, too. The aging hippies at regular places like the grocery store are the worst - they smell like a college dorm.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 12:48 PM (WvpaS)
303
GOP faced the same thing, didn't they? Probably
even more so since we weren't as far along the democratisation/popular
sovereignty road at that time.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM
=========
State and local requirements that, if changed, would most likely have to pass muster with the FEC, the federal, judiciary, and the DoJ.
even more so since we weren't as far along the democratisation/popular
sovereignty road at that time.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM
=========
State and local requirements that, if changed, would most likely have to pass muster with the FEC, the federal, judiciary, and the DoJ.
Posted by: mrp at February 12, 2015 12:49 PM (JBggj)
304
If the GOP fell apart, we would see a new party rise
quickly, and in the same way as the GOP originally arose - by piecing
together most of the elements of the old party, and adding in some
disaffected segments of the Democrat Party that, for reasons more of
pride than ideology, didn't want to list themselves as the old party,
but didn't necessarily have that same problem with the new.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Our coalition is just too fractious. If the GOP fell apart, it would be 5 different "right-leaning" parties all saying they are the "right" one.
There would be a Huckabee/Santorum SoCon party, a Rand Paul libertarian party, a Paul Ryan Chamber of Commerce wing, and a Pat Buchanan border hawk party, etc.
All the while the Democrats would dominate every single office in government and we'd be Venezuela in about 6 years.
I think it's a lot easier to get rid of people like Boehner just like we got rid of Cantor.
quickly, and in the same way as the GOP originally arose - by piecing
together most of the elements of the old party, and adding in some
disaffected segments of the Democrat Party that, for reasons more of
pride than ideology, didn't want to list themselves as the old party,
but didn't necessarily have that same problem with the new.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Our coalition is just too fractious. If the GOP fell apart, it would be 5 different "right-leaning" parties all saying they are the "right" one.
There would be a Huckabee/Santorum SoCon party, a Rand Paul libertarian party, a Paul Ryan Chamber of Commerce wing, and a Pat Buchanan border hawk party, etc.
All the while the Democrats would dominate every single office in government and we'd be Venezuela in about 6 years.
I think it's a lot easier to get rid of people like Boehner just like we got rid of Cantor.
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:49 PM (obqqs)
305
295 I remember Gary Johnson being a weird guy
---
He is. A good guy in a lot of ways, too, but damn if he doesn't have a wide streak of weird.
---
He is. A good guy in a lot of ways, too, but damn if he doesn't have a wide streak of weird.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (U0H7B)
306
What would a new Conservative Party look like?
You want reality, or what I'd hope for?
In reality... yes, you'd get a very socon party because a party needs a philosophy and "more for me and mine" doesn't sell, however logical it actually is.
What I'd hope for?
"We affirm the Constitution of the United States and the Declaration of Independence were designed to provide liberty from Government to the People. A Constitutional Government must be small (limited in scope) but strong where it does have authority.
The nature of the world is such that "world security" directly affects US security. This has been demonstrated since the 18th and 19th centuries. We didn't go looking for trouble with the Barbary pirates; we didn't go looking for trouble with Germany (either time) or Japan. We didn't go looking for trouble with Mohammedan terror.
Since these troubles will not leave us alone, we must have a forceful and active defense to combat them "over there" before they can cause trouble within the United States."
That's a start. A Constitutionally small government wouldn't need nearly as much in taxes, so a flat tax of 10% would be way more than sufficient. The reality of the situation says it would have to use a "phase out" approach to Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare. EPA? Dead. Dept Ed? Dead. Dept Energy? The parts that are really Federal Government issues (power for the Military, maintaining the integrity and security of the interstate grid) would move to DoD, the rest: dead. DHS? Dead. DOJ: relegated once more to its Constitutional bounds (which means the FBI is either dead or becomes only an advisory/consultancy resource for the States).
You want reality, or what I'd hope for?
In reality... yes, you'd get a very socon party because a party needs a philosophy and "more for me and mine" doesn't sell, however logical it actually is.
What I'd hope for?
"We affirm the Constitution of the United States and the Declaration of Independence were designed to provide liberty from Government to the People. A Constitutional Government must be small (limited in scope) but strong where it does have authority.
The nature of the world is such that "world security" directly affects US security. This has been demonstrated since the 18th and 19th centuries. We didn't go looking for trouble with the Barbary pirates; we didn't go looking for trouble with Germany (either time) or Japan. We didn't go looking for trouble with Mohammedan terror.
Since these troubles will not leave us alone, we must have a forceful and active defense to combat them "over there" before they can cause trouble within the United States."
That's a start. A Constitutionally small government wouldn't need nearly as much in taxes, so a flat tax of 10% would be way more than sufficient. The reality of the situation says it would have to use a "phase out" approach to Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare. EPA? Dead. Dept Ed? Dead. Dept Energy? The parts that are really Federal Government issues (power for the Military, maintaining the integrity and security of the interstate grid) would move to DoD, the rest: dead. DHS? Dead. DOJ: relegated once more to its Constitutional bounds (which means the FBI is either dead or becomes only an advisory/consultancy resource for the States).
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (kff5f)
307
Because retreating from the field is the best way of getting any victory.
Seriously.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (hLRSq)
Please list for me all conservative victories over the last 20 years.
Seriously.
No, seriously. Please list for me the victories achieved by the Republican party on the national level over the last 20 years that would give me as a conservative an objective reason to vote for the Republicans.
Seriously.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 12, 2015 12:45 PM (hLRSq)
Please list for me all conservative victories over the last 20 years.
Seriously.
No, seriously. Please list for me the victories achieved by the Republican party on the national level over the last 20 years that would give me as a conservative an objective reason to vote for the Republicans.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (JtwS4)
309
her argument is that Obamacare is fully implemented yet and those evil insurance companies are making hay while they can
see when its fully implemented everything will be perfect
I told her the insurance companies and Obama have agreed to unload her to the government. The wrote it, lobbied for it and are implementing that
she has a very child like belief in all good and all evil. It didn't occur to her they were in bed together this whole time
her argument is that Obamacare is fully implemented yet and those evil insurance companies are making hay while they can
see when its fully implemented everything will be perfect
I told her the insurance companies and Obama have agreed to unload her to the government. The wrote it, lobbied for it and are implementing that
she has a very child like belief in all good and all evil. It didn't occur to her they were in bed together this whole time
Posted by: ThunderB at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (zOTsN)
310
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:49 PM (obqqs)
Add don't forget the Jeb Bush can't we all just get along Party
Add don't forget the Jeb Bush can't we all just get along Party
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:51 PM (sWgE+)
311
well, let's remember what a major split in the republican party can do: Woodrow Wilson. And Bill Clinton
Posted by: wrg500
This. The closest a third party came to success was in 1912 with the Bull Moose party.
It had a popular former president (TR)
It sought to screw over Taft and move leftward. It did succeed in moving the needle in that direction, but past TR and to Wilson.
More recent examples include nader and Perot. Both managed to achieve the exact opposite of their stated intent. They both enabled the needle to go in the opposite direction.
In order for a third party to work, this has to be solved. Even in a palimentary system, when was the last time the Liberal party won anything, except as part of a coalition government. I think that even the UK is effectively a two party system.
Posted by: wrg500
This. The closest a third party came to success was in 1912 with the Bull Moose party.
It had a popular former president (TR)
It sought to screw over Taft and move leftward. It did succeed in moving the needle in that direction, but past TR and to Wilson.
More recent examples include nader and Perot. Both managed to achieve the exact opposite of their stated intent. They both enabled the needle to go in the opposite direction.
In order for a third party to work, this has to be solved. Even in a palimentary system, when was the last time the Liberal party won anything, except as part of a coalition government. I think that even the UK is effectively a two party system.
Posted by: Blue Hen at February 12, 2015 12:51 PM (Spluw)
312
There is a reason the Federalists died out, to be replaced by the Whigs, who died out, to be replaced by the Republicans. Power corrupts. The Whigs were replaced within one election cycle - it can be done easily.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 12, 2015 12:51 PM (40li+)
313
The GOP constantly talks about "corporate tax rates", by which they mean taxes on "C" corporations. Most LIV's don't realize that almost all small American businesses are either "S" corporations, or LLC's (or straight partnerships) and are not taxed as a corporation. Those businesses are taxed on the personal returns of their owners.
If I had my way, the GOP would leave corporate tax rates high until such time as the personal rates are lowered by a lot. But that isn't even my top issue. My top issue is Federal overreach. Get rid of the last fourteen or even twenty-two years, Bush and Obama at least (and maybe Clinton, at least on healthcare regulatory matters).
Since 1990 healthcare spending has doubled t0 18% of GDP. Put another way, when the Clintons inserted government into healthcare, and Bush and Obama (especially) compounded the problem, they doubled our healthcare costs.
That's what happens when government touches something and price competition diminishes. The GOP accepts this and I don't.
If I had my way, the GOP would leave corporate tax rates high until such time as the personal rates are lowered by a lot. But that isn't even my top issue. My top issue is Federal overreach. Get rid of the last fourteen or even twenty-two years, Bush and Obama at least (and maybe Clinton, at least on healthcare regulatory matters).
Since 1990 healthcare spending has doubled t0 18% of GDP. Put another way, when the Clintons inserted government into healthcare, and Bush and Obama (especially) compounded the problem, they doubled our healthcare costs.
That's what happens when government touches something and price competition diminishes. The GOP accepts this and I don't.
Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2015 12:52 PM (LISuA)
314
17 This guy is definitely NOT a moron:
http://tinyurl.com/jvhnwza
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:47 AM (sWgE+)
Ten. Inches. Around.
http://tinyurl.com/jvhnwza
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:47 AM (sWgE+)
Ten. Inches. Around.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (2Ojst)
315
ace sez;
And of course that's why the corporatists support minting millions of new, low-wage-expectations Americans, to drive down actual current legal documented Americans' wages.
The corporatist class also insists, while this is all going on, that they pay less in taxes than they do currently, even though the effect of their desired policies will be to put more actual Americans on the government dole (and hence to jack up government expenses).
They not only seek to reduce their own cost of wages, but then further demand to be immunized against the higher taxes needed to compensate the out-of-work Americans their preferred policies create.
I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class -- and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
And then, once it does hurt, and they are begging relief, we can have a different conversation about what we shall demand of them to ally with them anew.
But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
-------------------
i agree with all of this rounding up of our dilemna or dilemma.
Yet limited Time seems to be a prevalent issue at this point.
so?
And of course that's why the corporatists support minting millions of new, low-wage-expectations Americans, to drive down actual current legal documented Americans' wages.
The corporatist class also insists, while this is all going on, that they pay less in taxes than they do currently, even though the effect of their desired policies will be to put more actual Americans on the government dole (and hence to jack up government expenses).
They not only seek to reduce their own cost of wages, but then further demand to be immunized against the higher taxes needed to compensate the out-of-work Americans their preferred policies create.
I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class -- and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts.
And then, once it does hurt, and they are begging relief, we can have a different conversation about what we shall demand of them to ally with them anew.
But this time, we should insist that corporate interests serve the conservative agenda, rather than, as it has been forever, that the conservative agenda be made a slave to corporate interests.
-------------------
i agree with all of this rounding up of our dilemna or dilemma.
Yet limited Time seems to be a prevalent issue at this point.
so?
Posted by: comrade willow at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (nqBYe)
316
312 There is a reason the Federalists died out, to be replaced by the Whigs, who died out, to be replaced by the Republicans. Power corrupts. The Whigs were replaced within one election cycle - it can be done easily.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 12, 2015 12:51 PM (40li+)
What we need is a Lace Whigs party.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 12, 2015 12:51 PM (40li+)
What we need is a Lace Whigs party.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (2Ojst)
317
Please list for me all conservative victories over the last 20 years.
Heller.
Then you went and ruined it by asking for conservative Republican victories.
Please list for me all conservative victories over the last 20 years.
Heller.
Then you went and ruined it by asking for conservative Republican victories.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (JtwS4)
318
No, seriously. Please list for me the victories achieved by the Republican party on the national level over the last 20 years that would give me as a conservative an objective reason to vote for the Republicans.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny--A one year reprieve from the death tax, and the non-renewal of the assault weapons ban. Those are the only two we could come up with last time this question was asked.
No, seriously. Please list for me the victories achieved by the Republican party on the national level over the last 20 years that would give me as a conservative an objective reason to vote for the Republicans.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny--A one year reprieve from the death tax, and the non-renewal of the assault weapons ban. Those are the only two we could come up with last time this question was asked.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (40li+)
319
No, seriously. Please list for me the victories achieved by the Republican party on the national level over the last 20 years that would give me as a conservative an objective reason to vote for the Republicans.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (mf5HN)
Hey, we just got Boehner as Speaker of the House.
And he was the original Tea Partier. Ask him.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (mf5HN)
Hey, we just got Boehner as Speaker of the House.
And he was the original Tea Partier. Ask him.
Posted by: blaster at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (Rx8ML)
320
You want a conservative President. Win the primaries
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2015 12:54 PM (rDqRv)
321
308
I'm just going to leave this here:
http://bit.ly/1As6v1Z
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (JtwS4)
======================
Great composition on that pic.
I'm just going to leave this here:
http://bit.ly/1As6v1Z
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (JtwS4)
======================
Great composition on that pic.
Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2015 12:54 PM (LISuA)
322
Whoa ... let's back up here ... did Chi-Town Jerry really ask for a more populist message?
I'm stunned.
I'm stunned.
Posted by: mrp at February 12, 2015 12:54 PM (JBggj)
323
I told my sister there will be two healthcare systems
one for the vast majority and private insurance for the wealthy
like England, which they think is a utopian ideal
I told my sister there will be two healthcare systems
one for the vast majority and private insurance for the wealthy
like England, which they think is a utopian ideal
Posted by: ThunderB at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (zOTsN)
324
"Please list for me the victories achieved by the Republican party on the national level over the last 20 years..."
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (mf5HN)
Now you're just being mean.
Heh.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (mf5HN)
Now you're just being mean.
Heh.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (1Y+hH)
325
314 17 This guy is definitely NOT a moron:
http://tinyurl.com/jvhnwza
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:47 AM (sWgE+)
Ten. Inches. Around.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (2Ojst)
Youth is wasted on the wrong people.
http://tinyurl.com/jvhnwza
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 11:47 AM (sWgE+)
Ten. Inches. Around.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 12:53 PM (2Ojst)
Youth is wasted on the wrong people.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (F2IAQ)
326
"What would a new Conservative Party look like? I just think the same
opportunists would jump on board, it's the nature of politicians."
That's one of the hardest tasks at the start. The Tea Party, for all that it's not a "party," is now identified as So Con as much as Fi Con. That wasn't the intention at the start.
I'd say focus on policy, not personality, at first, and start small. Define a short, broadly popular list of core principles. Shoot for lower offices, more newbie candidates than old guard unless the experienced pols had very solid credentials on your core priorities (e.g. Sessions on amnesty).
Most importantly, do not dip into the same "talent" pool of consultant class bottom feeders that the Uniparty uses. AoS has shown how to home-grow top notch political operatives who can go toe-to-toe with the Feeherys of the establishment on lunch breaks at their truck dispatching job. That's our talent pool.
opportunists would jump on board, it's the nature of politicians."
That's one of the hardest tasks at the start. The Tea Party, for all that it's not a "party," is now identified as So Con as much as Fi Con. That wasn't the intention at the start.
I'd say focus on policy, not personality, at first, and start small. Define a short, broadly popular list of core principles. Shoot for lower offices, more newbie candidates than old guard unless the experienced pols had very solid credentials on your core priorities (e.g. Sessions on amnesty).
Most importantly, do not dip into the same "talent" pool of consultant class bottom feeders that the Uniparty uses. AoS has shown how to home-grow top notch political operatives who can go toe-to-toe with the Feeherys of the establishment on lunch breaks at their truck dispatching job. That's our talent pool.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (QKIQb)
327
306.
That party you're envisioning wouldn't garner 10% of the vote.
I really don't think people are voting for the other team because the GOP isn't strident enough on social issues or that they want MediCare and Social Security phased out.
It might feel good waving a flag over a cliff, but I really don't need a test run to know that such a Party would go down in flames.
I think our electorate is the bigger problem vs a political party not having the perfect blend of ideology.
That party you're envisioning wouldn't garner 10% of the vote.
I really don't think people are voting for the other team because the GOP isn't strident enough on social issues or that they want MediCare and Social Security phased out.
It might feel good waving a flag over a cliff, but I really don't need a test run to know that such a Party would go down in flames.
I think our electorate is the bigger problem vs a political party not having the perfect blend of ideology.
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (obqqs)
328
I'm just going to leave this here:
http://bit.ly/1As6v1Z
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (JtwS4)
Hey!
You promised you would delete that!
http://bit.ly/1As6v1Z
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 12:50 PM (JtwS4)
Hey!
You promised you would delete that!
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (J0IP0)
330
"Fuck New Hampshire. Scrap the current primary schedule. Corn junkies in Iowa and whoinHellknowswhat in NH get to lead off?"
A simple adaptive algorithm for determining who goes first, and last, in primaries: sort according to prior competence, or lack of same, in selecting general-election winners.
Example: Mitt Romney lost the general election in 2012. Take all the states where Mitt won the primaries or caucuses, and drop them all to the back of the queue. They go last.
A simple adaptive algorithm for determining who goes first, and last, in primaries: sort according to prior competence, or lack of same, in selecting general-election winners.
Example: Mitt Romney lost the general election in 2012. Take all the states where Mitt won the primaries or caucuses, and drop them all to the back of the queue. They go last.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (noWW6)
331
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties
than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the
banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing
power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom
it properly belongs."
than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the
banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing
power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom
it properly belongs."
Posted by: Stuff Jefferson Said For Realsies at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (27KAF)
Posted by: comrade willow at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (nqBYe)
333
ACE,
AGREE, AGREE and AGREE!
But QUESTION. We cannot weed out liars/RINO sleepers even now.
Once the 3rd party is viable how do we catch the snakes from coming in?
Thoughts?
AGREE, AGREE and AGREE!
But QUESTION. We cannot weed out liars/RINO sleepers even now.
Once the 3rd party is viable how do we catch the snakes from coming in?
Thoughts?
Posted by: Guest at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (uingK)
334
At this point, I'm all in favor of sticking it to the GOP's business masters. Frankly, it's become a neoliberal party that exploits small government and social conservatives for votes and infrastructure--and the occasional pot of message. If you want to be cannon fodder for the Chamber of Commerce, knock yourself out. But if you object to the neoliberal trend, understand that that's all you'll be.
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (ifqy+)
335
I just don't think it matters.
There will be no political solution to this ... America as we know it WILL fail. Debt and basic economics says so. Either National Socialism will keep it together by force, along with all the wealth seizures and restrictions of liberty that go with it ... or the Republic will split into multiple nations.
I doubt, if the latter is the case, that those resulting nations will be very Tolerant or Libertarian either. New Englanders will still tax each other to death, and Southerners will still insist on being their brother's keeper.
I have no faith anymore in man's ability to self rule on anything close to a Republican model. Homo Sapiens are natural tyrants. As a species, it's just what we are.
There will be no political solution to this ... America as we know it WILL fail. Debt and basic economics says so. Either National Socialism will keep it together by force, along with all the wealth seizures and restrictions of liberty that go with it ... or the Republic will split into multiple nations.
I doubt, if the latter is the case, that those resulting nations will be very Tolerant or Libertarian either. New Englanders will still tax each other to death, and Southerners will still insist on being their brother's keeper.
I have no faith anymore in man's ability to self rule on anything close to a Republican model. Homo Sapiens are natural tyrants. As a species, it's just what we are.
Posted by: ScoggDog at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (cBvzT)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (sWgE+)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (z0tIa)
338
The ONLY way for a third party to succeed, in my
estimation, is to coalesce with reasonably minded independents. And,
they aren't gonna do that with SoCons...they just aren't. And most
non-corporate Republicans are SoCons.
Posted by: TickledPink at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (TMe1n)
The excesses of Big Anus, and the trannies, and all the other pervs have basically made any normal, heterosexual Americans into closet so-Cons. They just don't know it yet. So, organized so-Cons have to learn to present themselves as the rational alternative to the unbridled crazy on the Left.
estimation, is to coalesce with reasonably minded independents. And,
they aren't gonna do that with SoCons...they just aren't. And most
non-corporate Republicans are SoCons.
Posted by: TickledPink at February 12, 2015 11:57 AM (TMe1n)
The excesses of Big Anus, and the trannies, and all the other pervs have basically made any normal, heterosexual Americans into closet so-Cons. They just don't know it yet. So, organized so-Cons have to learn to present themselves as the rational alternative to the unbridled crazy on the Left.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (cOx5a)
339
Worse, imagine Hillary Pelosi and Reid in control again.
Posted by: mallfly
Analogies - 2 Points
1. Hilliary is to Bush III as:
a) Oreo is to Hydrox
Worse, imagine Hillary Pelosi and Reid in control again.
Posted by: mallfly
Analogies - 2 Points
1. Hilliary is to Bush III as:
a) Oreo is to Hydrox
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (kdS6q)
340
306 What would a new Conservative Party look like?
You want reality, or what I'd hope for
---------
Allen, start applying for a gig on a presidential run.
Jib, cut, newsletter my man.
You want reality, or what I'd hope for
---------
Allen, start applying for a gig on a presidential run.
Jib, cut, newsletter my man.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2015 12:58 PM (F2IAQ)
341
Just got back to my desk and saw this post.
Fer Chrissakes, it's been linked in my nick forever, but here:
http://tinyurl.com/makgkjr
Fer Chrissakes, it's been linked in my nick forever, but here:
http://tinyurl.com/makgkjr
Posted by: Country Singer at February 12, 2015 12:58 PM (8hctH)
342
yanno, one day i will grok clicking links at ace's is bad for my soul.
Posted by: comrade willow at February 12, 2015 12:58 PM (nqBYe)
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 12:58 PM (Ae7K+)
344
The article quoted by Ace sez:
"I]f we understand conservatism as advocating smaller government that treats people impartially..."
That's a big "IF."
Sure here on this blog we have been assiduously trying and succeeding at redefining conservatism as standing for those things.
But there are millions of other people who self-define as "conservatives" who imagine it means something else altogether. People in the Huckabee camp imagine it means the return to a Christian puritanism. People in the Bush camp think it means protecting the aristocracy from the hoi polloi.
And everyone on the left imagines that "conservatism" is just a flimsy euphemism for "racist fascism."
I have been wrestling with a massive essay for YEARS over the notion of needing a new word to name what this new emerging political ideology is.
We still need that name.
One of these days I'll finish that essay and come up with that name. Right after I finish re-organizing my S&H Green Stamp collection.
"I]f we understand conservatism as advocating smaller government that treats people impartially..."
That's a big "IF."
Sure here on this blog we have been assiduously trying and succeeding at redefining conservatism as standing for those things.
But there are millions of other people who self-define as "conservatives" who imagine it means something else altogether. People in the Huckabee camp imagine it means the return to a Christian puritanism. People in the Bush camp think it means protecting the aristocracy from the hoi polloi.
And everyone on the left imagines that "conservatism" is just a flimsy euphemism for "racist fascism."
I have been wrestling with a massive essay for YEARS over the notion of needing a new word to name what this new emerging political ideology is.
We still need that name.
One of these days I'll finish that essay and come up with that name. Right after I finish re-organizing my S&H Green Stamp collection.
Posted by: zombie at February 12, 2015 12:58 PM (K4YiS)
345
"We don't need a "new political party." We need state-level reform of
ballot-access and election rules. For example, it only requires 25
signatures to get a Republican or Democrat on the Tennessee ballot, but
other candidates are required to provide 40,000 signatures."
That's another top priority for a third party. I've spent some time looking at access laws and what Constitutional issues can be raised, and will do a lot more when time permits and the third party ball gets rolling. The Uniparty has definitely covered its bases where access is concerned, and that hurdle has to be removed or lowered to get a third party off the ground. It's going to be a multi-front, multi-discipline effort to be sure.
ballot-access and election rules. For example, it only requires 25
signatures to get a Republican or Democrat on the Tennessee ballot, but
other candidates are required to provide 40,000 signatures."
That's another top priority for a third party. I've spent some time looking at access laws and what Constitutional issues can be raised, and will do a lot more when time permits and the third party ball gets rolling. The Uniparty has definitely covered its bases where access is concerned, and that hurdle has to be removed or lowered to get a third party off the ground. It's going to be a multi-front, multi-discipline effort to be sure.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 12, 2015 12:59 PM (QKIQb)
346
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
Posted by: Stuff Jefferson Said For Realsies
And you forbade private banks from issuing any currency, then went and created the Fed, the CRA and quantitative easing. WTF?
Posted by: Stuff Jefferson Said For Realsies
And you forbade private banks from issuing any currency, then went and created the Fed, the CRA and quantitative easing. WTF?
Posted by: Things zombie Tom jefferson is probably saying at February 12, 2015 12:59 PM (Spluw)
347
I hope the far right follows Ace and leave the GOP. It will allow Moderates and Libertarians to return sanity to the party. The tea part can restart George Wallace's American Freedom party and preach their reactionary and racialist views.
Please leave.
Please leave.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 12:59 PM (ixRh/)
348
BTW, what's an ex-Olympian champion undergoing a sex change doing towing a carbon-spewing dune buggy around and running into people while smoking cigs?
Isn't this really the recent story of America?
BTW, what's an ex-Olympian champion undergoing a sex change doing towing a carbon-spewing dune buggy around and running into people while smoking cigs?
Isn't this really the recent story of America?
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:59 PM (1Y+hH)
349
Psaki Third U.S. Embassy Evacuation In Mideast Doesnt Mean U.S. Is Being Run Out Of Town, We Have Six Embassies In The Mideast Still Open
Is there a broader concern that youre being the U.S. is being run out of town in the Arab world?
We certainly dont look at it in that way, Psaki responded. I would remind you that we were not the only country that moved our staff out of Yemen last night (so did the U.K. and France), and we have to take precautions to protect the men and women who are serving on our behalf.
Weasel Zippers
So now we are measured on how we stack up to France? Jesus Christ it's worse than I thought
Is there a broader concern that youre being the U.S. is being run out of town in the Arab world?
We certainly dont look at it in that way, Psaki responded. I would remind you that we were not the only country that moved our staff out of Yemen last night (so did the U.K. and France), and we have to take precautions to protect the men and women who are serving on our behalf.
Weasel Zippers
So now we are measured on how we stack up to France? Jesus Christ it's worse than I thought
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2015 01:00 PM (rDqRv)
Posted by: ThunderB at February 12, 2015 01:00 PM (zOTsN)
351
Sniff Sniff sniff.
Foul smell
Foul smell
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2015 01:00 PM (rDqRv)
Posted by: torquewrench at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (noWW6)
353
That party you're envisioning wouldn't garner 10% of the vote.
At the moment? Probably not. That's why you build a party. And, actually, it would sell pretty well in the already Red states.
But if "the problem is the electorate" then the only solution is (and if BC is around, I'm sure he's been waiting for it)
Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.
Any republican (note the little 'R') solution must be predicated on "the electorate" caring what happens to their progeny. They must care about what happens to future generations enough to consider implications of the policies for which they're voting.
If "the electorate" is only going to vote based on charisma, we're screwed, because it's very easy to be charismatic while promising people more stuff, and very hard to be charismatic while preaching "the gods of the copybook headings."
At that point, the only thing left is the new Dark Ages.
At the moment? Probably not. That's why you build a party. And, actually, it would sell pretty well in the already Red states.
But if "the problem is the electorate" then the only solution is (and if BC is around, I'm sure he's been waiting for it)
Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.
Any republican (note the little 'R') solution must be predicated on "the electorate" caring what happens to their progeny. They must care about what happens to future generations enough to consider implications of the policies for which they're voting.
If "the electorate" is only going to vote based on charisma, we're screwed, because it's very easy to be charismatic while promising people more stuff, and very hard to be charismatic while preaching "the gods of the copybook headings."
At that point, the only thing left is the new Dark Ages.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (kff5f)
354
I have no faith anymore in man's ability to self
rule on anything close to a Republican model. Homo Sapiens are natural
tyrants. As a species, it's just what we are.
Posted by: ScoggDog at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (cBvzT)
-----------------------
Maybe it just comes down to numbers... after a population (and it's resultant government) gets to a certain size, it just becomes impossible to maintain it as a republic.
So maybe breaking up the US really is the wisest course of action....libtard progressives can flock to wherever they run things, conservatives the same, etc....
rule on anything close to a Republican model. Homo Sapiens are natural
tyrants. As a species, it's just what we are.
Posted by: ScoggDog at February 12, 2015 12:57 PM (cBvzT)
-----------------------
Maybe it just comes down to numbers... after a population (and it's resultant government) gets to a certain size, it just becomes impossible to maintain it as a republic.
So maybe breaking up the US really is the wisest course of action....libtard progressives can flock to wherever they run things, conservatives the same, etc....
Posted by: Dirty Randy at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (jjaLl)
355
I think our electorate is the bigger problem vs a political party not having the perfect blend of ideology.
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (obqqs)
=======
I think the problem with our electorate is that they are faced with deciding between John McCain vs Barack Hussein Obama and Mitt Romney vs Barack Hussein Obama.
If even Joe the Plumber can figure out Obama, then why do the GOPe machers keep pushing Dem-lites for the GOP nomination? This is another rhetorical question.
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (obqqs)
=======
I think the problem with our electorate is that they are faced with deciding between John McCain vs Barack Hussein Obama and Mitt Romney vs Barack Hussein Obama.
If even Joe the Plumber can figure out Obama, then why do the GOPe machers keep pushing Dem-lites for the GOP nomination? This is another rhetorical question.
Posted by: mrp at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (JBggj)
356
American Badass Party
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (2Ojst)
357
hey Dean suck Ace's dick you bomb throwing subintellectual light weight
Posted by: ThunderB at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Mega at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (hHFOx)
359
The Leviathan must be destroyed.
Nothing can change until the Government and it's minions are completely starved out.
Nothing can change until the Government and it's minions are completely starved out.
Posted by: Garrett at February 12, 2015 01:01 PM (/kM91)
360
The tea part can restart George Wallace's American Freedom party and preach their reactionary and racialist views.
Please leave.
Posted by: Dean
Bravo! Best troll parody I've seen in months!
Please leave.
Posted by: Dean
Bravo! Best troll parody I've seen in months!
Posted by: zombie at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (K4YiS)
361
The Republic of Texas.
I like the way that sounds.
I recommending disbanding Austin as part of this plan.
I like the way that sounds.
I recommending disbanding Austin as part of this plan.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (J0IP0)
362
I am really enjoying this talk by tea party/soconz of leaving the Republican Party. It will be the greatest blessing for the GOP. Take the neocons with ou as well.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (ixRh/)
363
we have to take precautions to protect the men and women who are serving on our behalf.
Follow up question ms.Psaki. How are we protecting our men and women with no guns?
Follow up question ms.Psaki. How are we protecting our men and women with no guns?
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (sWgE+)
364
its Hector hectoring again. Its hector tyme
Posted by: ThunderB at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (2Ojst)
366
"What would a new Conservative Party look like?"
Ooooo -- we get new uniforms too? Cool!
I think we should go with a Charlton Heston "Omega Man" look.
Bush jackets, bandanas around the neck and aviator Ray-Bans.
"What would a new Conservative Party look like?"
Ooooo -- we get new uniforms too? Cool!
I think we should go with a Charlton Heston "Omega Man" look.
Bush jackets, bandanas around the neck and aviator Ray-Bans.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (kdS6q)
367
331 "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties
than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the
banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing
power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom
it properly belongs."
Posted by: Stuff Jefferson Said For Realsies at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM
People have quoted that before, claiming Jefferson said it. No one can prove he said it, and Snopes says he didn't. The quote they say is closest, though, is even better since it argues specifically against federal deficit spending.
"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the
banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing
power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom
it properly belongs."
Posted by: Stuff Jefferson Said For Realsies at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM
People have quoted that before, claiming Jefferson said it. No one can prove he said it, and Snopes says he didn't. The quote they say is closest, though, is even better since it argues specifically against federal deficit spending.
"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (LISuA)
368
I'm a lying sack of shit
I pretend that dems like Wallace are not only GOP, but the tea party. Why? Because they dare disagree with me. And the 10:00 med cart got lost. Mostly the latter.
I pretend that dems like Wallace are not only GOP, but the tea party. Why? Because they dare disagree with me. And the 10:00 med cart got lost. Mostly the latter.
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (Spluw)
369
Follow up question ms.Psaki. How are we protecting our men and women with no guns?
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (sWgE+)
Cans of Campbell's Chunky.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:02 PM (sWgE+)
Cans of Campbell's Chunky.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (2Ojst)
370
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 12:59 PM (ixRh/)
You are really shitty at this, but at least you are funny.
Write more.
You are really shitty at this, but at least you are funny.
Write more.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (1Y+hH)
371
Ace, you've given this Reagan Republican something to think about.
Posted by: CCO at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (zxiqz)
372
I eat my boogers
Posted by: Dean's Spleen at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (zOTsN)
373
Except the 1% will never be squeezed. That's the point.
The elites, political class and the 1% are the ones who can attune the progressive super-state to their needs.
Jacking up taxes on the 1% will end up only hurting the not-quite-super-rich and the entrepreneur without elite connections or enough money to fund all the legal teams and lobbying firms to get their cut.
The elites, political class and the 1% are the ones who can attune the progressive super-state to their needs.
Jacking up taxes on the 1% will end up only hurting the not-quite-super-rich and the entrepreneur without elite connections or enough money to fund all the legal teams and lobbying firms to get their cut.
Posted by: gwelf at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (TJ8HB)
374
The tea part can restart George Wallace's American Freedom party and preach their reactionary and racialist views.
Why would the tea party want to emulate the Democratic Party?
Why would the tea party want to emulate the Democratic Party?
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (J0IP0)
375
@360
I am dead serious. The tea party/socons are the ideological heirs of Wallace. They have reactionary social and racial views which have inhibited the GOP from winning Presidential elections.
Please leave.
I am dead serious. The tea party/socons are the ideological heirs of Wallace. They have reactionary social and racial views which have inhibited the GOP from winning Presidential elections.
Please leave.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (ixRh/)
376
362 I am really enjoying this talk by tea party/soconz of leaving the Republican Party. It will be the greatest blessing for the GOP. Take the neocons with ou as well.
Posted by: Dean
Got to be satire. This doesn't even make sense within the Media Matters paid-troll styleguide.
Posted by: Dean
Got to be satire. This doesn't even make sense within the Media Matters paid-troll styleguide.
Posted by: zombie at February 12, 2015 01:03 PM (K4YiS)
377
"It will allow Moderates and Libertarians to return sanity to the party."
Oh, that's funny.
Because the business wing is going to listen to the libertarians on anything other than a couple of token social issues? They're going to give up their subsidies, cheap labor, surveillance state, interventionism, manipulable convoluted tax structure, etc?
Sure they are. Keep on tokin'.
Oh, that's funny.
Because the business wing is going to listen to the libertarians on anything other than a couple of token social issues? They're going to give up their subsidies, cheap labor, surveillance state, interventionism, manipulable convoluted tax structure, etc?
Sure they are. Keep on tokin'.
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (ifqy+)
378
Try Trinity, Knoppix or Hiren.
But even a debian LXDE image will let you get in and e-mail your files to yourself.
Posted by: DrSteve at February 12, 2015 12:03 PM (wwKgz)
Everybody should download Hiren's Boot Disk, and burn a copy to a DVD. It contains not one, but several bootable systems, and a huge assortment of file management and disk recovery tools. It has saved my butt on several occasions.
But even a debian LXDE image will let you get in and e-mail your files to yourself.
Posted by: DrSteve at February 12, 2015 12:03 PM (wwKgz)
Everybody should download Hiren's Boot Disk, and burn a copy to a DVD. It contains not one, but several bootable systems, and a huge assortment of file management and disk recovery tools. It has saved my butt on several occasions.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (cOx5a)
379
By the way, since banks forced Jefferson into orderly liquidation of assets twice, bankruptcy essentially, he is hardly the fairest authority on debt financing of extravagant lifestyles.
Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (LISuA)
380
The guys get shirts. The ladies get stompy boots.
Posted by: eleven at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (Ae7K+)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (sWgE+)
382
Now you're just being mean.
Heh.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (1Y+hH)
No, I am not just being mean. Somewhat, but not even primarily.
I am sick (and tired) of the smug oh you just want to take your ball and go home response to legitimate frustrations with the GOP in its current incarnation.
I have been told for at least 20 years that if I don't like it, then get involved on the primary level and the local level and take over the party and DO YOU WANT THE LEFT TO WIN DO YOU DO YOU?
Well. I've done my part. Do you know what I've received in return? A party that wants my time and treasure, of which time is the greatest treasure, and then turns around and calls me names.
If anyone is going to get paid for the privilege of calling someone else names, I will be the one doing the name calling, thankyouverymuch.
Hence, my response to those who are rolling their eyes at me. I can list multitudinous ways in which the GOP has broken its faith with me. I do not owe anyone my vote. My vote is to be earned. Thus, my challenge. Give my positive reasons to vote GOP on the national level. Please, by all means, prove me wrong. Do it. I triple dog dare you do it.
Oddly enough, it's only ever the same two victories that are mentioned. Funny. That.
But I'm the one who believes in magical thinking. Sure, why not?
Heh.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 12:55 PM (1Y+hH)
No, I am not just being mean. Somewhat, but not even primarily.
I am sick (and tired) of the smug oh you just want to take your ball and go home response to legitimate frustrations with the GOP in its current incarnation.
I have been told for at least 20 years that if I don't like it, then get involved on the primary level and the local level and take over the party and DO YOU WANT THE LEFT TO WIN DO YOU DO YOU?
Well. I've done my part. Do you know what I've received in return? A party that wants my time and treasure, of which time is the greatest treasure, and then turns around and calls me names.
If anyone is going to get paid for the privilege of calling someone else names, I will be the one doing the name calling, thankyouverymuch.
Hence, my response to those who are rolling their eyes at me. I can list multitudinous ways in which the GOP has broken its faith with me. I do not owe anyone my vote. My vote is to be earned. Thus, my challenge. Give my positive reasons to vote GOP on the national level. Please, by all means, prove me wrong. Do it. I triple dog dare you do it.
Oddly enough, it's only ever the same two victories that are mentioned. Funny. That.
But I'm the one who believes in magical thinking. Sure, why not?
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (7ObY1)
384
I recommending disbanding Austin as part of this plan.
If The Republic of Texas were to become a real thing, Austin would look like Dresden.
If The Republic of Texas were to become a real thing, Austin would look like Dresden.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (z0tIa)
385
I think that people should shut up and listen to their leftist betters.i'll also pretend that the $18 trillion in debt isn't a problem, but so/neo/paleo/retro/ex/scifi cons are evvvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiil.
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (Spluw)
386
381 Ooooo -- we get new uniforms too? Cool!
I vote for the Japanese school girl look!
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (sWgE+)
I ain't wearing that.
I vote for the Japanese school girl look!
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (sWgE+)
I ain't wearing that.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (2Ojst)
387
mommy only lets me use the computer one hour a day
the rest of the time she needs it for her "work" at porn hub
mommy only lets me use the computer one hour a day
the rest of the time she needs it for her "work" at porn hub
Posted by: Dean's Spleen at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (zOTsN)
388
Popular Mechanics: How to Build a Blowgun From Playing Cards
These assholes never heard of a straw?
These assholes never heard of a straw?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (DMJw2)
389
Let's do it after we avoid Hillary and/or Fauxcahontas. Thanks!
Oh, doesn't mean we shouldn't take out some GOPe and RINOs in the 2016 House elections while keeping a good healthy majority.
Oh, doesn't mean we shouldn't take out some GOPe and RINOs in the 2016 House elections while keeping a good healthy majority.
Posted by: Charlie Gibson at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (g1MTt)
390
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (mf5HN)
My dear alexthechick.
I was being sarcastic. I'm with you.
My dear alexthechick.
I was being sarcastic. I'm with you.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (1Y+hH)
391
If you all bolt from the GOP, I will vote Republican at the Presidential level. Nominate that's Klansman Walker as your nominee.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (ixRh/)
392
If you all bolt from the GOP, I will vote Republican at the Presidential level. Nominate that's Klansman Walker as your nominee.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (ixRh/)
393
Don't mind Dean. He had that massive head trauma back in the day, remember?
Posted by: Jan at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (jjaLl)
394
I vote for the Japanese school girl look!
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (sWgE+)
I ain't wearing that.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (2Ojst)
#theGuysGetSuits
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (sWgE+)
I ain't wearing that.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (2Ojst)
#theGuysGetSuits
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (kff5f)
395
>>So now we are measured on how we stack up to France? Jesus Christ it's worse than I thought
We used to laugh at Bagdad Bob. Now we have many of our own at the WH and State spewing that kind of garbage.
"We're not getting run out of the region, we're just getting more diplomatically selective."
We used to laugh at Bagdad Bob. Now we have many of our own at the WH and State spewing that kind of garbage.
"We're not getting run out of the region, we're just getting more diplomatically selective."
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (WvpaS)
396
Someone fix Dean a Haldol Smoothie. Venti size.
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (ifqy+)
397
350 reform party?
too progressive sounding?
That was Ross Perot's party, ya know the one that Jesse Ventura won with.
Bad karma with that name.
too progressive sounding?
That was Ross Perot's party, ya know the one that Jesse Ventura won with.
Bad karma with that name.
Posted by: JJStone at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (nbgPm)
398
***pokes head in***
Looks like Hector is pulling a Joe Biden with his diaper again.
***waits for new thread***
Looks like Hector is pulling a Joe Biden with his diaper again.
***waits for new thread***
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (zF6Iw)
399
I love Robert sheets Byrd the Klansman. he's dreamy.
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (Spluw)
400
Dean ran out of material in a huury.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (1Y+hH)
401
Grand Moff Jeff Sessions is the only thing that keeps me even barely interested in voting for "The Party".
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (rwI+c)
402
@383
Communists are atheists. Nice try snake handling heretic.
Communists are atheists. Nice try snake handling heretic.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (ixRh/)
403
How about this? http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-gives-shout-out-old-butt-buddy-iowa_849717.html
Our Vice-President, how we love him!
Our Vice-President, how we love him!
Posted by: jclittlep at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (FmAIy)
404
"People have quoted that before, claiming Jefferson said it. No one can prove he said it, and Snopes says he didn't."
It's not as though it's difficult to disprove. The phrases "inflation" and "deflation" were not used in discussions of economics at any time during Jefferson's life. They came into use much later.
It's not as though it's difficult to disprove. The phrases "inflation" and "deflation" were not used in discussions of economics at any time during Jefferson's life. They came into use much later.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (noWW6)
405
"We're not getting run out of the region, we're just getting more diplomatically selective."
Right. And don't forget obama told us in Sept. that Yemen was a foreign policy success, so We have that...
Right. And don't forget obama told us in Sept. that Yemen was a foreign policy success, so We have that...
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (Bn6aD)
406
"Please leave."
Only a concern troll would argue that GOP moderates and libertarians are a viable coalition. Crony capitalists and laissez faire? That's like the mayonnaise on hot dogs party.
The Tea Party is not So Con, much less George F-ing Wallace. It has So Cons in it. For the thousandth time, it was started as a Fi Con and limited government project, and remains one. So Cons welcome for support on fiscal issues and limiting government, but no one I know is waving a Tea Party flag on social issues beyond saying you should be able to bake, or not bake, cakes for who you like. That's about as libertarian as it gets, "Dean."
Only a concern troll would argue that GOP moderates and libertarians are a viable coalition. Crony capitalists and laissez faire? That's like the mayonnaise on hot dogs party.
The Tea Party is not So Con, much less George F-ing Wallace. It has So Cons in it. For the thousandth time, it was started as a Fi Con and limited government project, and remains one. So Cons welcome for support on fiscal issues and limiting government, but no one I know is waving a Tea Party flag on social issues beyond saying you should be able to bake, or not bake, cakes for who you like. That's about as libertarian as it gets, "Dean."
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (QKIQb)
407
I ain't wearing that.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (2Ojst)
Thank you. I've seen your legs.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (2Ojst)
Thank you. I've seen your legs.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (sWgE+)
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (7ObY1)
409
"We're not getting run out of the region, we're just getting more diplomatically selective."
Strategic Embassy Reorganization
Strategic Embassy Reorganization
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (LA7Cm)
410
I hate Walker. He invented that debbil drink, Johnnie Walker, which mama drinks morning noon and night
damn that Walker. Damn him to hell!
I hate Walker. He invented that debbil drink, Johnnie Walker, which mama drinks morning noon and night
damn that Walker. Damn him to hell!
Posted by: Dean's Spleen at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (zOTsN)
411
Dean ran out of material in a huury.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (1Y+hH)
It still has one bullet. It hasn't directly called us Nazis yet
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (1Y+hH)
It still has one bullet. It hasn't directly called us Nazis yet
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (rDqRv)
412
Dean yes, we'd Love for the tea party wackicals to be replaced by those gentler kinder anything goes, as long as You get all the pieces of Pie with whipped cream.
enjoy, you stupid bastard , all het up , You allow One issue to drive you , never mind it undermines EVERY Americans freedom in a miriad of ways .
enjoy the dead babies, enjoy the feckless regulations, denjoy the finacial devestation, enjoy the Radical Muslims growing into Being a major power. enjoy the nsa, epa, irs, osha, freeDUMB,
sell out jerk.
enjoy, you stupid bastard , all het up , You allow One issue to drive you , never mind it undermines EVERY Americans freedom in a miriad of ways .
enjoy the dead babies, enjoy the feckless regulations, denjoy the finacial devestation, enjoy the Radical Muslims growing into Being a major power. enjoy the nsa, epa, irs, osha, freeDUMB,
sell out jerk.
Posted by: comrade willow at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (nqBYe)
413
Hey!
You promised you would delete that!
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (mf5HN)
---------------------------
How you doin'? *hic*...
Hey!
You promised you would delete that!
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 12:56 PM (mf5HN)
---------------------------
How you doin'? *hic*...
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (HSmrB)
414
As long as corporate welfare exists, raising taxes will only increase the power of the major corporations against the middle.
For example, here in Illinois, corporate taxes were raised to try and cover state budget shortfalls. Immediately, Caterpillar threatened to move elsewhere; so they got a special deal. End result: small business and the middle class get hammered, the big shots walk away untouched.
I think the tax rates should be left alone, or even lowered: just get the big shots off the dole!
I, for one, would be delighted to see all of Hollywood's sweetheart tax deals repealed. They want progressiveism? Fine, they'll get progressivism: good and hard!
As long as corporate welfare exists, raising taxes will only increase the power of the major corporations against the middle.
For example, here in Illinois, corporate taxes were raised to try and cover state budget shortfalls. Immediately, Caterpillar threatened to move elsewhere; so they got a special deal. End result: small business and the middle class get hammered, the big shots walk away untouched.
I think the tax rates should be left alone, or even lowered: just get the big shots off the dole!
I, for one, would be delighted to see all of Hollywood's sweetheart tax deals repealed. They want progressiveism? Fine, they'll get progressivism: good and hard!
Posted by: Brown Line at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (zcbZo)
415
I vote for the Japanese school girl look!
Posted by: wrg500
Pam Bondi + plain pleated skirt + knee socks + saddle shoes
That so works.
I vote for the Japanese school girl look!
Posted by: wrg500
Pam Bondi + plain pleated skirt + knee socks + saddle shoes
That so works.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (Spluw)
417
The good thing about the tea party/socons leaving will mean the party of Lincoln will no longer have bigots in in.
Please leave.
Please leave.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:08 PM (ixRh/)
418
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (QKIQb)
You're trying to talk sense to a mental defective who blows migrant workers behind the dumpster.
You're trying to talk sense to a mental defective who blows migrant workers behind the dumpster.
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:09 PM (7ObY1)
419
Deanector doesn't have any material. Lefty Tourette's leaves him a bit...underpowered in that department. Just variations on H8r.
I blame public schools.
I blame public schools.
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 12, 2015 01:09 PM (ifqy+)
420
that's Klansman Walker
Posted by: Dean
OK, that's proof that this is actually a professional job.
No random person would be attempting to spread a self-evidently false meme like this.
It's an attempt to spread poison, at the cost of one's own credibility. Creating and destroying disposable troll personae is a trademark of the MM and administration ideological hit squads.
Posted by: Dean
OK, that's proof that this is actually a professional job.
No random person would be attempting to spread a self-evidently false meme like this.
It's an attempt to spread poison, at the cost of one's own credibility. Creating and destroying disposable troll personae is a trademark of the MM and administration ideological hit squads.
Posted by: zombie at February 12, 2015 01:09 PM (K4YiS)
421
@416
Most tea partners/socons come from Democrat families. They moved into the GOP and ruined it.
Most tea partners/socons come from Democrat families. They moved into the GOP and ruined it.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:09 PM (ixRh/)
422
Weak troll is weak, and concerned.
Posted by: toby928(C) at February 12, 2015 01:09 PM (rwI+c)
423
Like this very much, but the big question is, how do we do so? Other than by not voting for the latest moderate who will simply be a handmaiden to the corporate interests?
I have always taken the position that as bad as John Boehner may be, he's a lot better than Dirty Harry. And Mitt couldn't possibly be nearly as disastrous for the country as Obama.
May be time to rethink that position.
I have always taken the position that as bad as John Boehner may be, he's a lot better than Dirty Harry. And Mitt couldn't possibly be nearly as disastrous for the country as Obama.
May be time to rethink that position.
Posted by: RM at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (fRppw)
424
"Well. I've done my part. Do you know what I've received in return? A
party that wants my time and treasure, of which time is the greatest
treasure, and then turns around and calls me names."
That's the first thing that sent me packing from the GOP starting in 2012. I think it's going to be Jeb Bush's strategy for all of 2016 - "taking back the GOP from the conservo-crazies." They think they smelled blood in the mid-term primaries and they're drunk on their own money and power. Screw them.
party that wants my time and treasure, of which time is the greatest
treasure, and then turns around and calls me names."
That's the first thing that sent me packing from the GOP starting in 2012. I think it's going to be Jeb Bush's strategy for all of 2016 - "taking back the GOP from the conservo-crazies." They think they smelled blood in the mid-term primaries and they're drunk on their own money and power. Screw them.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (QKIQb)
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (1Y+hH)
426
Pam Bondi + plain pleated skirt + knee socks + saddle shoes
That so works.
---------------------
Yuk!
That so works.
---------------------
Yuk!
Posted by: Harry Reid at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (jjaLl)
427
inininin .
Speaking of lincoln, I just made a big lincoln log in my diaper
Speaking of lincoln, I just made a big lincoln log in my diaper
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (Spluw)
428
173 Sad news about Bob Simon, but Brian Williams called in to say he'd been in a fatal car crash himself in New York in 2006.
Posted by: docweasel at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (DzQH3)
I felt bad when I laughed at that.
A little.
Posted by: docweasel at February 12, 2015 12:21 PM (DzQH3)
I felt bad when I laughed at that.
A little.
Posted by: Hawkins1701 at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (8bm9h)
429
All is proceeding as I have foreseen.
"A mixed economy is rule by pressure groups. It is an amoral, institutionalized civil war of special interests and lobbies, all fighting to seize a momentary control of the legislative machinery, to extort some special privilege at one another's expense by an act of government, i.e., by force."
"A mixed economy is rule by pressure groups. It is an amoral, institutionalized civil war of special interests and lobbies, all fighting to seize a momentary control of the legislative machinery, to extort some special privilege at one another's expense by an act of government, i.e., by force."
Posted by: Zombie Ayn Rand at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (rFipM)
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (JtwS4)
431
SOOOOO, when is everyone jumping on the Gary Johnson train?
I jumped on last election.
A little weird sure, but he did well as New Mexico Governor and he doesn't just fucking lie like every democrat and republican.
I jumped on last election.
A little weird sure, but he did well as New Mexico Governor and he doesn't just fucking lie like every democrat and republican.
Posted by: Sean at February 12, 2015 01:10 PM (o3U8H)
432
I like paste
I like paste
Posted by: Dean's Spleen at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (zOTsN)
433
Pam Bondi + plain pleated skirt + knee socks + saddle shoes
That so works.
Off to the bunk, brb.
Pam Bondi + plain pleated skirt + knee socks + saddle shoes
That so works.
Off to the bunk, brb.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (sWgE+)
434
407 I ain't wearing that.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (2Ojst)
Thank you. I've seen your legs.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (sWgE+)
OK, now I'm worried...
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:05 PM (2Ojst)
Thank you. I've seen your legs.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:07 PM (sWgE+)
OK, now I'm worried...
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (2Ojst)
435
Waiter--the SJW who's pretending to be a Concerned Republican is stale--and reeks of patchouli. Can I have a fresher troll, please?
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (ifqy+)
436
Most people who dare disagree with me come from other places.
Because i say so. The only thing I can prove are the contents of my diaper.
Because i say so. The only thing I can prove are the contents of my diaper.
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (Spluw)
437
425 Too late, Dean.
I left in 2007.
I left when The Weeping Orange Boner childishly mocked his own base over immigration. Last straw and all that.
I left in 2007.
I left when The Weeping Orange Boner childishly mocked his own base over immigration. Last straw and all that.
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (7ObY1)
438
"Please list for me all conservative victories over the last 20 years.
Seriously."
Here's one: Gun Rights.
Please explain to me how retreating from the field into political impotence is a victory of any kind. You think you are ignored now? Just wait for the silence your pleas and demands will invoke when you walk away from all coalition building.
Seriously."
Here's one: Gun Rights.
Please explain to me how retreating from the field into political impotence is a victory of any kind. You think you are ignored now? Just wait for the silence your pleas and demands will invoke when you walk away from all coalition building.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (hLRSq)
439
My dear alexthechick.
I was being sarcastic. I'm with you.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (1Y+hH)
Oh. Um. Sorry. I knew what you meant, I just kinda wanted to get some more kicks in and, you know, didn't particularly aim well. Sorry about that.
Here. Maybe this will help.
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
I was being sarcastic. I'm with you.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:06 PM (1Y+hH)
Oh. Um. Sorry. I knew what you meant, I just kinda wanted to get some more kicks in and, you know, didn't particularly aim well. Sorry about that.
Here. Maybe this will help.
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (mf5HN)
440
Interesting...
http://tinyurl.com/m27fm7b
Civil rights leaders get eye-opening first-hand training with police shoot/don't shoot scenarios and get a bit trigger happy.
http://tinyurl.com/m27fm7b
Civil rights leaders get eye-opening first-hand training with police shoot/don't shoot scenarios and get a bit trigger happy.
Posted by: Dang at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (MNq6o)
441
@420
Walker is a Baptist, that is the cult of the KKK. Walker want a white evangelical takeover of America based on suppression of Catholics, segregation for Blacks and deportation of Spanish and Asians.
Walker is a Baptist, that is the cult of the KKK. Walker want a white evangelical takeover of America based on suppression of Catholics, segregation for Blacks and deportation of Spanish and Asians.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (ixRh/)
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (DMJw2)
443
Fredo and the Western 'Powers" have agreed to Russian Hegemony over eastern Urkraine. What a deal. I hope they drive the same hard bargain with Iran? Do we Munich much?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (rDqRv)
444
I stopped taking my Lithium
Posted by: Dean's Spleen at February 12, 2015 01:13 PM (zOTsN)
445
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
Mmm hmm. Me likey.
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
Mmm hmm. Me likey.
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:13 PM (7ObY1)
446
I left when The Weeping Orange Boner childishly mocked his own base over immigration. Last straw and all that.
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (7ObY1)
Yeah, that was bad. I finally became convinced that Rs would do nothing about fiscal sanity. It was preponderance of the evidence type thing.
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:11 PM (7ObY1)
Yeah, that was bad. I finally became convinced that Rs would do nothing about fiscal sanity. It was preponderance of the evidence type thing.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:13 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:13 PM (sWgE+)
448
THAT IS MY PARKING SPOT!!!!!
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:13 PM (zOTsN)
449
70 The corporatists think we can import an unlimited number of Latin Americans and not have a Latin American political economy.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at February 12, 2015 11:59 AM (nFdGS)
Or maybe a Latin American-style political economy works just fine for the corporatists, and therefore they are trying to create it here.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at February 12, 2015 11:59 AM (nFdGS)
Or maybe a Latin American-style political economy works just fine for the corporatists, and therefore they are trying to create it here.
Posted by: rickl at February 12, 2015 01:14 PM (zoehZ)
450
>>OK, that's proof that this is actually a professional job
You mean paid trolling professional, not professional quality amirite?
Because ol' Dean/Hector/whatever is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Heck, he may be out of a job soon if they can build AI trolling software - or maybe that's what he is?????
You mean paid trolling professional, not professional quality amirite?
Because ol' Dean/Hector/whatever is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Heck, he may be out of a job soon if they can build AI trolling software - or maybe that's what he is?????
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 01:14 PM (WvpaS)
451
I think that a dem hate group is somehow a spinoff off one of several baptist organizations. i know this because...............
where is that meds cart?
where is that meds cart?
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:14 PM (Spluw)
Posted by: @JohnTant at February 12, 2015 01:14 PM (eytER)
453
I am the ideological twin of that chinless dude in North Carolina
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:14 PM (zOTsN)
454
Dean, Obama claims to be a Baptist.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:14 PM (sWgE+)
455
Uh Oh. It happened this morning ...
Sarah Palin just preached to the choir at a packed house filled with corporatists, capitalists, and assorted other 1% types greedy for the People's Money. Standing Os coming and going. I dunno what the world is coming to. Oh, woe ... Jeb, you're looking good, buddy! /s
LINK (Forbes): http://preview.tinyurl.com/l56lzno
Sarah Palin just preached to the choir at a packed house filled with corporatists, capitalists, and assorted other 1% types greedy for the People's Money. Standing Os coming and going. I dunno what the world is coming to. Oh, woe ... Jeb, you're looking good, buddy! /s
LINK (Forbes): http://preview.tinyurl.com/l56lzno
Posted by: mrp at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (JBggj)
456
"Here's one: Gun Rights. "
The one and only thing that has me still voting for any GOP. But, alas, with GOP "friends" like Toomey even that is not a given.
The one and only thing that has me still voting for any GOP. But, alas, with GOP "friends" like Toomey even that is not a given.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (LA7Cm)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (HSmrB)
458
Atheists and left-wing liberals are the ones shooting Muslims in gun-free zones, not the Tea Party.
Posted by: brevity at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (jmN7w)
459
AI trolling software - or maybe that's what he is?????
That would explain a lot actually.
Like why HecDerp habitually leaves the "y" off of "tea part" and such.
Must be some bad code in his programming.
That would explain a lot actually.
Like why HecDerp habitually leaves the "y" off of "tea part" and such.
Must be some bad code in his programming.
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (7ObY1)
460
441 @420
Walker is a Baptist, that is the cult of the KKK. Walker want a white evangelical takeover of America based on suppression of Catholics, segregation for Blacks and deportation of Spanish and Asians.
Posted by: Dean
OK, now you've got me re-convinced that you're just satire again.
Right there on the knife-edge between "on the Media Matter payroll" and "Ace having a little fun with his own readers." That's quite a balancing act!
Walker is a Baptist, that is the cult of the KKK. Walker want a white evangelical takeover of America based on suppression of Catholics, segregation for Blacks and deportation of Spanish and Asians.
Posted by: Dean
OK, now you've got me re-convinced that you're just satire again.
Right there on the knife-edge between "on the Media Matter payroll" and "Ace having a little fun with his own readers." That's quite a balancing act!
Posted by: zombie at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (K4YiS)
461
Here's one: Gun Rights.
Hmm... someone else already named that one.
I think I'm going to be tougher than AtC.
Name me 5. Five things in 20 years (1 every four shouldn't be out of bounds, should it?) that I, as a Conservative, should be glad the Republican Party did. (Also, I'll point out, most of the "Gun Rights" wins were judiciary in nature, not legislative. The closest you get to that is the sunset of the AWB, but I'm not sure simply not doing something counts as a "win.")
Hmm... someone else already named that one.
I think I'm going to be tougher than AtC.
Name me 5. Five things in 20 years (1 every four shouldn't be out of bounds, should it?) that I, as a Conservative, should be glad the Republican Party did. (Also, I'll point out, most of the "Gun Rights" wins were judiciary in nature, not legislative. The closest you get to that is the sunset of the AWB, but I'm not sure simply not doing something counts as a "win.")
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: zombie dean martin at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (Spluw)
463
Let me be the 500th or so Moron to say Welcome to the Conservative Third Party, Jay and Ace!
The GOPe is indeed just the Crips to the Dems' Bloods. Both are corrupt organizations that exist to strip us of our stuff and our freedom.
The GOPe is indeed just the Crips to the Dems' Bloods. Both are corrupt organizations that exist to strip us of our stuff and our freedom.
Posted by: Kirsten Powers, Fox Newscompoop at February 12, 2015 01:15 PM (hKyl0)
464
If you left the GOP then you should not bitch about the party then. Snake handling bigots shod not be allowed in the party of Lincoln.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (ixRh/)
465
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (mf5HN)
*starts working on new insults with high hopes*
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (mf5HN)
*starts working on new insults with high hopes*
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (1Y+hH)
466
and once again Dean pulls me out from my hellish prison in his underpants...
Posted by: race card at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (+mPG2)
467
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Baptists want to deport Asians?
WTF am I supposed to do here as an Asian Baptist? Deport myself?
Even worse: I'm an Asian SOUTHERN Baptist. Guess I need to burn a cross on my own front lawn, then deport myself.
Dector, this is seriously the most pathetic trolling attempt I've seen.
WTF am I supposed to do here as an Asian Baptist? Deport myself?
Even worse: I'm an Asian SOUTHERN Baptist. Guess I need to burn a cross on my own front lawn, then deport myself.
Dector, this is seriously the most pathetic trolling attempt I've seen.
Posted by: Country Singer at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (8hctH)
468
Also, I'm for returning the electoral process to its Constitutional roots, which means eliminating the popular election of presidents and the twisting of the Electoral College system.
Re-read Article II, Section 1, the Twelfth Amendment, and the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.
Nothing there about party primaries, or political conventions, or media-supervised debates, or a popular vote.
Eliminate the state-level "general ticket" laws and return to Constitutional elections.
Re-read Article II, Section 1, the Twelfth Amendment, and the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.
Nothing there about party primaries, or political conventions, or media-supervised debates, or a popular vote.
Eliminate the state-level "general ticket" laws and return to Constitutional elections.
Posted by: Hegemony Cricket at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (YvRAm)
469
@463
Good riddance to white trash racists like you.
Good riddance to white trash racists like you.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (ixRh/)
470
OK, now you've got me re-convinced that you're just satire again. Right there on the knife-edge between "on the Media Matter payroll" and "Ace having a little fun with his own readers." That's quite a balancing act!
Posted by: zombie
Don't harsh my mellow. Tell me I'm not stomping a sock.
Posted by: zombie
Don't harsh my mellow. Tell me I'm not stomping a sock.
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (Spluw)
471
I voted Romney in '12 ... just because I really thought Obama had to go. But I went Third Party in '08, since I thought McCain leaned National Socialist while Obama was more Democratic Socialist.
Turns out I was wrong ... Obama was National Socialist as well. Regardless - I see very little daylight between Hillary/Warren and Jeb/Christie/Romney. Not nearly enough to bother.
Turns out I was wrong ... Obama was National Socialist as well. Regardless - I see very little daylight between Hillary/Warren and Jeb/Christie/Romney. Not nearly enough to bother.
Posted by: ScoggDog at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (cBvzT)
472
I vote for the Japanese school girl look!
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (sWgE+)
I ain't wearing that.
If I drop a few more pounds I could probably pull it off.
I vote for the Japanese school girl look!
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (sWgE+)
I ain't wearing that.
If I drop a few more pounds I could probably pull it off.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (JtwS4)
473
WHY DO YOU KEEP PARKING IN MY SPACE
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:17 PM (zOTsN)
474
Those damned Banksters
Posted by: JJStone at February 12, 2015 01:17 PM (nbgPm)
475
Name me 5. Five things in 20 years (1 every four shouldn't be out of bounds, should it?) that I, as a Conservative, should be glad the Republican Party did. (Also, I'll point out, most of the "Gun Rights" wins were judiciary in nature, not legislative. The closest you get to that is the sunset of the AWB, but I'm not sure simply not doing something counts as a "win.")
Posted by: AllenG
Wasn't welfare reform in that timeframe? 1997?
Posted by: AllenG
Wasn't welfare reform in that timeframe? 1997?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 12, 2015 01:17 PM (DMJw2)
476
Watching Hector try to impersonate a conservative is like rebooting Die Hard with Harvey Fierstein as John McClane.
You cringe and LOL at the same time.
You cringe and LOL at the same time.
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 12, 2015 01:17 PM (ifqy+)
477
I can tell if people are white over the Internet. I have powers.
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:17 PM (Spluw)
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:17 PM (1Y+hH)
479
I really don't take these calls for a third party too seriously:
It's a lot of work to put one together.
You have to get past all of the other shouting voices.
They tend to be ideologically rigid, moreso than the bulk of the population that is needed to actually win office.
They tend to orbit around a particular idea or personality, and when both fade from public consciousness, then so does the party.
And....it's usually just a bunch of frustrated people who think they aren't being listened to or being given the respect that they deserve venting off steam. sort of like they are seeking an Outlet for their Outrage.
It's a lot of work to put one together.
You have to get past all of the other shouting voices.
They tend to be ideologically rigid, moreso than the bulk of the population that is needed to actually win office.
They tend to orbit around a particular idea or personality, and when both fade from public consciousness, then so does the party.
And....it's usually just a bunch of frustrated people who think they aren't being listened to or being given the respect that they deserve venting off steam. sort of like they are seeking an Outlet for their Outrage.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 12, 2015 01:17 PM (hLRSq)
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 12, 2015 01:18 PM (BZAd3)
481
ban on Snake handling.....We're gonna have to get a ruling on this for the moronettes
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:18 PM (Spluw)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 12, 2015 01:19 PM (hLRSq)
483
@460
No I am dead serious. I want the tea party/socons gone from the GOP. The reactionary social and racist views have hurt the party in Presidential elections. Without the crazies, the GOP will win.
No I am dead serious. I want the tea party/socons gone from the GOP. The reactionary social and racist views have hurt the party in Presidential elections. Without the crazies, the GOP will win.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:19 PM (ixRh/)
484
You mean paid trolling professional, not professional quality amirite?
Posted by: Lizzy
Yes, I mean a "paid professional troll."
The administration has several proxy outside organizations (including but not limited to Media Matters) who employ freelance concern-trolls to stalk conservative sites. I think the goal is not so much to actually change anyone's mind (since they're so atrocious at doing so) but rather to waste our time chasing down and stomping on their poison-memes.
Posted by: Lizzy
Yes, I mean a "paid professional troll."
The administration has several proxy outside organizations (including but not limited to Media Matters) who employ freelance concern-trolls to stalk conservative sites. I think the goal is not so much to actually change anyone's mind (since they're so atrocious at doing so) but rather to waste our time chasing down and stomping on their poison-memes.
Posted by: zombie at February 12, 2015 01:19 PM (K4YiS)
485
Needs a whip or at least a riding crop
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:13 PM (sWgE+)
Mmm. Riding crops. Like this?
http://goo.gl/swi6lj
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:13 PM (sWgE+)
Mmm. Riding crops. Like this?
http://goo.gl/swi6lj
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (zF6Iw)
486
Even worse: I'm an Asian SOUTHERN Baptist. Guess I need to burn a cross on my own front lawn, then deport myself.
Dector, this is seriously the most pathetic trolling attempt I've seen.
Posted by: Country Singer at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (8hctH)
So you belong to the Kru Krux Kran?
Dector, this is seriously the most pathetic trolling attempt I've seen.
Posted by: Country Singer at February 12, 2015 01:16 PM (8hctH)
So you belong to the Kru Krux Kran?
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (2Ojst)
487
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
Posted by: alexthechick
Well, if the girls are wearing that, the guys should probably go with something more like M. Bison in the Streetfighter movie:
http://i.yt___.com/vi/hLSnGe06kAI/hqdefault.jpg
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
Posted by: alexthechick
Well, if the girls are wearing that, the guys should probably go with something more like M. Bison in the Streetfighter movie:
http://i.yt___.com/vi/hLSnGe06kAI/hqdefault.jpg
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (kdS6q)
488
Snake handling bigots shod not be allowed in the party of Lincoln.
How 'bout if we handle the snakes while barefoot?
How 'bout if we handle the snakes while barefoot?
Posted by: Citizen X at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (zOTsN)
490
Beer-Mooseknuckle party is taking 2016.
Posted by: Man Spreader at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (F937F)
491
Hence, my response to those who are rolling their eyes at me. I can list multitudinous ways in which the GOP has broken its faith with me. I do not owe anyone my vote. My vote is to be earned.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (mf5HN)
Alex, I said this back when McCain ran. There was no way that I was voting for someone who happily voted to gut the 1st Amendment. For my troubles, I received not a small number of insults and threats. Hardly anyone bothered to try and reason me into voting for McCain. It was all "Hey, stooopidhead! Fall in line or [insert apocalyptic nonsense here]." Now, I will grant you that I had not correctly anticipated two things:
1) That McCain would make a canny choice for VP. Bitch about her missteps all you want to, but as my wife will attest, Palin entering the race was the first time I showed ANY interest in the outcome at all. And I wasn't alone. She helped McCain gain traction where, let's face it, he had none.
2) Just how far the left would go in their attempt to ruin an average American's life simply because he had the temerity to ask a simple question of a stupid Marxist sans teleprompter and said Marxist was dumb enough to give an answer that was a) honest and b) stupidly unappealing to most in the country.
At that point, I realized just how far batshit evil the left had become and I decided to voted for Palin. I pretended the other guy on the ticket wasn't there and then I drank heavily after casting my vote.
Now look where we are. The "vote for us because the Dems are the suxor" party is actively participating in attempts to permanently lower my standard of living vis a vis flooding in cheap, unskilled, illegal labor. Members of the GOP such as McCain have stated repeatedly that they want to do the equivalent of McCain-Feingold Part Deux, further limiting my 1st Amendment rights. And the GOPe leadership seems to have no interest in rolling back O-care. I guess they look at our neighbors to the south in Mexico and think "Hmm. There's a country rich in natural resources with a ruling oligarchy and bunch of poor peons. Sounds like a plan!" And this is what I'm being told I must support. This being Ace's blog and all, I will simply reply politely that you should go perform an anatomically impossible sexual act.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:04 PM (mf5HN)
Alex, I said this back when McCain ran. There was no way that I was voting for someone who happily voted to gut the 1st Amendment. For my troubles, I received not a small number of insults and threats. Hardly anyone bothered to try and reason me into voting for McCain. It was all "Hey, stooopidhead! Fall in line or [insert apocalyptic nonsense here]." Now, I will grant you that I had not correctly anticipated two things:
1) That McCain would make a canny choice for VP. Bitch about her missteps all you want to, but as my wife will attest, Palin entering the race was the first time I showed ANY interest in the outcome at all. And I wasn't alone. She helped McCain gain traction where, let's face it, he had none.
2) Just how far the left would go in their attempt to ruin an average American's life simply because he had the temerity to ask a simple question of a stupid Marxist sans teleprompter and said Marxist was dumb enough to give an answer that was a) honest and b) stupidly unappealing to most in the country.
At that point, I realized just how far batshit evil the left had become and I decided to voted for Palin. I pretended the other guy on the ticket wasn't there and then I drank heavily after casting my vote.
Now look where we are. The "vote for us because the Dems are the suxor" party is actively participating in attempts to permanently lower my standard of living vis a vis flooding in cheap, unskilled, illegal labor. Members of the GOP such as McCain have stated repeatedly that they want to do the equivalent of McCain-Feingold Part Deux, further limiting my 1st Amendment rights. And the GOPe leadership seems to have no interest in rolling back O-care. I guess they look at our neighbors to the south in Mexico and think "Hmm. There's a country rich in natural resources with a ruling oligarchy and bunch of poor peons. Sounds like a plan!" And this is what I'm being told I must support. This being Ace's blog and all, I will simply reply politely that you should go perform an anatomically impossible sexual act.
Posted by: physics geek at February 12, 2015 01:21 PM (MT22W)
492
I am wound up tighter than a $2 watch.
The ME is going to shit and I will continue to lie and whine about people who dare disagree with me.
The ME is going to shit and I will continue to lie and whine about people who dare disagree with me.
Posted by: rancid jimmie dean sausage at February 12, 2015 01:21 PM (Spluw)
493
>>Yes ladies and gentlemen, this is YOUR president:
http://tinyurl.com/mg4v256
Reminds me of that umbrella photo with Michelle.
Tell me again why so many people believe TFG is wicked smaht?
http://tinyurl.com/mg4v256
Reminds me of that umbrella photo with Michelle.
Tell me again why so many people believe TFG is wicked smaht?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 01:21 PM (WvpaS)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 12, 2015 01:21 PM (kdS6q)
495
The troll's use of the word "reactionary" is the proof in the pudding. No one but screeching harpy liberals use that word in reference to Republicans.
Posted by: Country Singer at February 12, 2015 01:21 PM (8hctH)
496
Wait--"deportation of the Spanish"?
That's a tell. Used by older white folks who think using terms like "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," etc. are vaguely slur-y.
Ok, I'm buying into the "he's a sock" argument now.
Bravo!
That's a tell. Used by older white folks who think using terms like "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," etc. are vaguely slur-y.
Ok, I'm buying into the "he's a sock" argument now.
Bravo!
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 12, 2015 01:21 PM (ifqy+)
Posted by: Deen at February 12, 2015 01:22 PM (+mPG2)
498
nood!
Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 12, 2015 01:22 PM (FsuaD)
499
MP4, I could see the ette's wearing that for causal Friday.
Posted by: wrg500 at February 12, 2015 01:22 PM (sWgE+)
500
Hector is bi-stupid. Its him
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:22 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Deen at February 12, 2015 01:23 PM (+mPG2)
502
"My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: "
I am suffering from impure thoughts.
Perhaps a punishment would be in order?
I am suffering from impure thoughts.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 12, 2015 01:23 PM (sHoya)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 12, 2015 01:23 PM (LA7Cm)
504
So you belong to the Kru Krux Kran?
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (2Ojst)
Nah, just De Pillipino Mapia. Pinoy!
Posted by: Insomniac at February 12, 2015 01:20 PM (2Ojst)
Nah, just De Pillipino Mapia. Pinoy!
Posted by: Country Singer at February 12, 2015 01:24 PM (8hctH)
505
I really don't take these calls for a third party too seriously:
Bless your heart. Of course you don't.
It's a lot of work to put one together.
You have to get past all of the other shouting voices.
They tend to be ideologically rigid, moreso than the bulk of the population that is needed to actually win office.
They tend to orbit around a particular idea or personality, and when both fade from public consciousness, then so does the party.
Circular logic. "It's never been done before, so it can't be done." Except that it very specifically *has* been done before.
Even granting that your assertions are correct (and, in the main, they are- there's just that one really big exception), then what if *reasonable people* considered it?
Okay, when crazy people try to do it, they fail. But what if reasonable people looked at reasonable evidence and decided reasonably that the Republican Party was no longer a safe home for Conservatives, and that Conservatives should form a new populist Conservative party?
With the exception of accelerating the burning times (which are coming either way if the Republic is not moved back to the Right sooner rather than later), what is the actual down-side of Democrats running the US Government for a couple extra cycles? Do you *really* expect the Republicans to do anything to save us from the coming Burning Times, or simply to delay them?
Bless your heart. Of course you don't.
It's a lot of work to put one together.
You have to get past all of the other shouting voices.
They tend to be ideologically rigid, moreso than the bulk of the population that is needed to actually win office.
They tend to orbit around a particular idea or personality, and when both fade from public consciousness, then so does the party.
Circular logic. "It's never been done before, so it can't be done." Except that it very specifically *has* been done before.
Even granting that your assertions are correct (and, in the main, they are- there's just that one really big exception), then what if *reasonable people* considered it?
Okay, when crazy people try to do it, they fail. But what if reasonable people looked at reasonable evidence and decided reasonably that the Republican Party was no longer a safe home for Conservatives, and that Conservatives should form a new populist Conservative party?
With the exception of accelerating the burning times (which are coming either way if the Republic is not moved back to the Right sooner rather than later), what is the actual down-side of Democrats running the US Government for a couple extra cycles? Do you *really* expect the Republicans to do anything to save us from the coming Burning Times, or simply to delay them?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at February 12, 2015 01:24 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: Deen at February 12, 2015 01:24 PM (+mPG2)
507
If the tea party/ socons leave this is what politics would look like.
Republicans: a multi ethnic coalition of Middle Class, White collar professionals with a Center-Right libertarian leaning outlook.
Democrats: An alliance of Rich Progressives, Marxists and welfare leaches.
The new 3rd Party: An alliance of Reactionaries, Theocrats and Racists. A National Socialist outlook.
Republicans: a multi ethnic coalition of Middle Class, White collar professionals with a Center-Right libertarian leaning outlook.
Democrats: An alliance of Rich Progressives, Marxists and welfare leaches.
The new 3rd Party: An alliance of Reactionaries, Theocrats and Racists. A National Socialist outlook.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:26 PM (ixRh/)
508
But if you really want to go from being insulted to being ignored, go for it.
Seriously.
Posted by: Mikey NTH -
You wrote that backwards.
Seriously.
Posted by: Mikey NTH -
You wrote that backwards.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:26 PM (1Y+hH)
509
>>The administration has several proxy outside organizations (including
but not limited to Media Matters) who employ freelance concern-trolls to
stalk conservative sites. I think the goal is not so much to actually
change anyone's mind (since they're so atrocious at doing so) but rather
to waste our time chasing down and stomping on their poison-memes.
Yep, Hector is one of those. He is always spouting the latest Lefty memes or pretending to be a conservative spouting cartoonish, hateful crap (that is really just what proggies believe conservatives would say).
A disrupt the discussion troll. Best just to ignore him.
but not limited to Media Matters) who employ freelance concern-trolls to
stalk conservative sites. I think the goal is not so much to actually
change anyone's mind (since they're so atrocious at doing so) but rather
to waste our time chasing down and stomping on their poison-memes.
Yep, Hector is one of those. He is always spouting the latest Lefty memes or pretending to be a conservative spouting cartoonish, hateful crap (that is really just what proggies believe conservatives would say).
A disrupt the discussion troll. Best just to ignore him.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 01:27 PM (WvpaS)
510
@495
Libertarians call the tea party/ socons reactionaries. Go to Reason and see.
Libertarians call the tea party/ socons reactionaries. Go to Reason and see.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:28 PM (ixRh/)
511
Best just to ignore him.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 01:27 PM (WvpaS)
But it's so hard to ignore someone making a fool of themselves.
OK, next thread.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 12, 2015 01:27 PM (WvpaS)
But it's so hard to ignore someone making a fool of themselves.
OK, next thread.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2015 01:29 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Anderson Cooper's Smoked Sausages at February 12, 2015 01:30 PM (MbqmP)
513
"Bless your heart. Of course you don't."
Why thank you so much. I don't because the history of American third parties is laughable, the homes for people who cannot work within a broad coalition party. They spring up every now and again, to great cries of joy, and then promptly collapse.
So no, AllenG, I do not take any of that seriously.
But don't let me stop you. Have at it. Find a party more in line with your views or found one that will be in line with your views. It will make you much happier and that will make me feel better, knowing that you are.
Why thank you so much. I don't because the history of American third parties is laughable, the homes for people who cannot work within a broad coalition party. They spring up every now and again, to great cries of joy, and then promptly collapse.
So no, AllenG, I do not take any of that seriously.
But don't let me stop you. Have at it. Find a party more in line with your views or found one that will be in line with your views. It will make you much happier and that will make me feel better, knowing that you are.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet sponsors Iraq Capades with Brian Williams! at February 12, 2015 01:30 PM (hLRSq)
514
Yes, they will demand we lower the corporate tax rates and such, as their fiduciary duty demands; but then they will also demand we amnetize 12 million "New Americans" for the Old Americans to subsidize.
You seem to imply that the two are separate issues. They are not. Oh, the latter may make those corporist liberals feel better about themselves, but don't discount that suppressing labor costs do not enhance their fiduciary duty.
Yes, they will demand we lower the corporate tax rates and such, as their fiduciary duty demands; but then they will also demand we amnetize 12 million "New Americans" for the Old Americans to subsidize.
You seem to imply that the two are separate issues. They are not. Oh, the latter may make those corporist liberals feel better about themselves, but don't discount that suppressing labor costs do not enhance their fiduciary duty.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at February 12, 2015 01:30 PM (1hM1d)
515
I really hope the tea party/socons carry through with their threat to leave.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:30 PM (ixRh/)
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:31 PM (MbqmP)
517
Mikey, is there some practical concrete recommendation hiding behind the musty, stale, empty "ha ha! you're trapped!", er, I mean, "geez guys, you'll only be less influential if you try to rock the currently shinking canoe!" approach you're taking.
I'm fresh out of practical ideas myself.
"Gun rights". Uh huh. So ... one, increasingly idiosyncratic-looking outlier of a SCOTUS decision is a reason to go along with theruination ofthe country in general?
"O-care". Sort of trumps, actually nukes, your implied benefit to the GOP having input over staffing the rogue, tyrannical judicial branch.
OK. Your turn again.
Mikey, is there some practical concrete recommendation hiding behind the musty, stale, empty "ha ha! you're trapped!", er, I mean, "geez guys, you'll only be less influential if you try to rock the currently shinking canoe!" approach you're taking.
I'm fresh out of practical ideas myself.
"Gun rights". Uh huh. So ... one, increasingly idiosyncratic-looking outlier of a SCOTUS decision is a reason to go along with theruination ofthe country in general?
"O-care". Sort of trumps, actually nukes, your implied benefit to the GOP having input over staffing the rogue, tyrannical judicial branch.
OK. Your turn again.
Posted by: rhomboid at February 12, 2015 01:33 PM (afQnV)
518
What could Reagan have done with a Republican congress? Would all of the reforms he wanted been enacted? If so, how long would it have been before that other party was back in power and got the train back on their track?
Posted by: Hank at February 12, 2015 01:34 PM (EU/xj)
519
353.
I just don't think there's a huge swath of voters that sits out elections or votes Democrat but in reality are closet right-wing conservatives. I hear this math over and over and I just don't buy it. Look at California, do you really think they're in the mess they are because the Republican Party? I don't, I think it's just full of liberals.
I do however think there is a space in the US for a Center-Right coalition, the fact that most Governorships, State Legislatures and the US Congress are in Republican hands should at least be a sign that Democrats' Demographics aren't nearly the force the media likes to pretend.
I think the GOP has some terrible leadership and it would be much easier to chop a few heads than build multiple parties from the ground up and hope there is eventually some sort of union.
I just don't think there's a huge swath of voters that sits out elections or votes Democrat but in reality are closet right-wing conservatives. I hear this math over and over and I just don't buy it. Look at California, do you really think they're in the mess they are because the Republican Party? I don't, I think it's just full of liberals.
I do however think there is a space in the US for a Center-Right coalition, the fact that most Governorships, State Legislatures and the US Congress are in Republican hands should at least be a sign that Democrats' Demographics aren't nearly the force the media likes to pretend.
I think the GOP has some terrible leadership and it would be much easier to chop a few heads than build multiple parties from the ground up and hope there is eventually some sort of union.
Posted by: McAdams at February 12, 2015 01:37 PM (obqqs)
520
Oh, and I forgot to add.
Gun rights are literally the very last major issue area in which Dems at the national (and state) levels are responsive to popular will, and in fact constitute a key barrier to further idiocy in that area. Not everywhere - duh - NJ, CA, NY, CT - and it like every other mixed area is going the wrong way.
So the "gun rights" issue is, upon examination, not really entirely a story of the GOP blocking the road. And yet that is the only thing even superficially tied to the existence of the GOP.
Oh, and I forgot to add.
Gun rights are literally the very last major issue area in which Dems at the national (and state) levels are responsive to popular will, and in fact constitute a key barrier to further idiocy in that area. Not everywhere - duh - NJ, CA, NY, CT - and it like every other mixed area is going the wrong way.
So the "gun rights" issue is, upon examination, not really entirely a story of the GOP blocking the road. And yet that is the only thing even superficially tied to the existence of the GOP.
Posted by: rhomboid at February 12, 2015 01:37 PM (afQnV)
521
All I do is cheerlead for dumb shit I get off of reddit because I am a cool techie who votes for strong rubiplicans like Bill Clinton and Woodrow Wilson.
Posted by: Dean at February 12, 2015 01:40 PM (MbqmP)
522
Allen, rhomboid, et al ...
Mikey's just giving you the basic "where you gonna' go" routine. He's Exhibit A why you're going to have to either stay home, or vote D for spite, if you want the GOP to change.
If you're to that point, talking to the Mikeys is a waste of time ... because they really don't believe people will say "Screw this, I am done" in numbers enough to matter.
Mikey's just giving you the basic "where you gonna' go" routine. He's Exhibit A why you're going to have to either stay home, or vote D for spite, if you want the GOP to change.
If you're to that point, talking to the Mikeys is a waste of time ... because they really don't believe people will say "Screw this, I am done" in numbers enough to matter.
Posted by: ScoggDog at February 12, 2015 01:41 PM (cBvzT)
523
whoooa!?????
Mikey's just giving you the basic "where you gonna' go" routine. He's Exhibit A why you're going to have to either stay home, or vote D for spite, if you want the GOP to change
Vote D for spite? that would only send a message that repubs should more more toward the dem positions. You vote libertarian or constitution party to spite the republicans.
Mikey's just giving you the basic "where you gonna' go" routine. He's Exhibit A why you're going to have to either stay home, or vote D for spite, if you want the GOP to change
Vote D for spite? that would only send a message that repubs should more more toward the dem positions. You vote libertarian or constitution party to spite the republicans.
Posted by: Sean at February 12, 2015 01:54 PM (o3U8H)
524
My proposed 'Ette uniform for our new and glorious party: http://bit.ly/1zPhlyt
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (mf5HN)
=====================
Thanks-- That is so going to dominate my thinking the rest of the day.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny now with Extra Jazz Hands at February 12, 2015 01:12 PM (mf5HN)
=====================
Thanks-- That is so going to dominate my thinking the rest of the day.
Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2015 02:17 PM (LISuA)
525
255 The ousting of Steve Scalise didn't even make a dent. It's business as usual for the GOP, and business is GOOD!
Frankly, my pessimism runs even deeper than ace's. The reelection of TFG was the end; we are just squabbling over the ruins. Not even an Article V convention can reverse the rot; there are too many blue states for any meaningful reform to get 75% approvals.
There is maybe the slimmest of a chance in electing a firebreather like Ted Cruz, but in all honesty even he would be subsumed by The System. He'd be taken out via impeachment by a bipartisan Senate 2/3 vote if he squashed too many toes. The march of progressivism proceeds on a hundred fronts and at best he could slow down 3 or 4 of them.
Posted by: GnuBreed at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (w4UpX)
I hate to admit it, but you are correct.
and that makes me sick in my heart, mind and soul, I can't see any bright future, all I can see ahead is darkness.
sorry, I know that is depressing but denying the facts doesn't get us anywhere, so if embracing the truth is depressing then so be it.
Frankly, my pessimism runs even deeper than ace's. The reelection of TFG was the end; we are just squabbling over the ruins. Not even an Article V convention can reverse the rot; there are too many blue states for any meaningful reform to get 75% approvals.
There is maybe the slimmest of a chance in electing a firebreather like Ted Cruz, but in all honesty even he would be subsumed by The System. He'd be taken out via impeachment by a bipartisan Senate 2/3 vote if he squashed too many toes. The march of progressivism proceeds on a hundred fronts and at best he could slow down 3 or 4 of them.
Posted by: GnuBreed at February 12, 2015 12:38 PM (w4UpX)
I hate to admit it, but you are correct.
and that makes me sick in my heart, mind and soul, I can't see any bright future, all I can see ahead is darkness.
sorry, I know that is depressing but denying the facts doesn't get us anywhere, so if embracing the truth is depressing then so be it.
Posted by: Shoey at February 12, 2015 02:51 PM (jdOk/)
526
So you hate the rich, eh? Nothing like stereotyping people on the basis of their income, which if it was race or religion, I presume you'd attack. Now you sound like a typical Occutard. That's what hate does to you -- it destroys your common sense.
However, you are right in that the GOP consists of many different factions. The corporatists are on one side, and the conservatives are on the other; the people who claim to be conservative but actually advocate something else? Look in the mirror, buddy. That's you. Conservativism has nothing to do with punishing people for success. What you have is a sick, liberal, hateful mindset that thinks in overbroad terms.
Don't you have a pipe bomb or something to set off somewhere?
However, you are right in that the GOP consists of many different factions. The corporatists are on one side, and the conservatives are on the other; the people who claim to be conservative but actually advocate something else? Look in the mirror, buddy. That's you. Conservativism has nothing to do with punishing people for success. What you have is a sick, liberal, hateful mindset that thinks in overbroad terms.
Don't you have a pipe bomb or something to set off somewhere?
Posted by: InRussetShadows at February 12, 2015 03:05 PM (cS+Sz)
527
Ace, if you want to form a new party, why not change the Republican Party instead?
You can't, you say?
If your ideas don't resonate with the majority of Conservative Americans in the Republican Party, then how in the HELL can you expect them to resonate with 51% + of the electorate?
You can't.
YOU are why we keep losing elections to the scum of the earth -- dimocrap filth.
I am very disappointed in your immaturity.
Remember -- The idea isn't to put the best person in Office. That is the dream of children and poets.
The idea is to keep the scum of the earth dimocraps OUT of power.
SMH
Everything else is just details.
You can't, you say?
If your ideas don't resonate with the majority of Conservative Americans in the Republican Party, then how in the HELL can you expect them to resonate with 51% + of the electorate?
You can't.
YOU are why we keep losing elections to the scum of the earth -- dimocrap filth.
I am very disappointed in your immaturity.
Remember -- The idea isn't to put the best person in Office. That is the dream of children and poets.
The idea is to keep the scum of the earth dimocraps OUT of power.
SMH
Everything else is just details.
Posted by: Uncle Rick at February 12, 2015 03:08 PM (ZbB1q)
528
@527? Seriously? Our only expectations is to be happy that we get piss poor representation, but be happy it could be worse?
I think you are missing the point of limited government.
I think you are missing the point of limited government.
Posted by: Sean at February 12, 2015 03:11 PM (o3U8H)
Posted by: Uncle Rick at February 12, 2015 03:15 PM (ZbB1q)
530
27
Okay Ace, you occupy a position of some significance in the conservative
blogosphere, so what are YOU going to do about it? Can we arrange a
series of moron meet-up to launch a grass roots exploration of
third-party options, or is this just another blog post that goes
nowhere?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Libertarians would be such easy pickings to take over. Their body count is not that high but they do have a recognized party structure that all the State SoS's recognize without hesitation. (That's key.) Saturate it with conservatives, take over the platform and modify the foreign policy planks to draw even more people in. Then ditch presidential runs for a while. Concentrate on getting Senators in office. 15-20 Senators of the right mindset can block any legislation they want. That have been proven time and again. Then slowly make inroads in the House. But you need a block of about 100 members there to make any impact. THEN a presidental candidate. Would take at a minimum 4 election cycles to accomplish.
Okay Ace, you occupy a position of some significance in the conservative
blogosphere, so what are YOU going to do about it? Can we arrange a
series of moron meet-up to launch a grass roots exploration of
third-party options, or is this just another blog post that goes
nowhere?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Libertarians would be such easy pickings to take over. Their body count is not that high but they do have a recognized party structure that all the State SoS's recognize without hesitation. (That's key.) Saturate it with conservatives, take over the platform and modify the foreign policy planks to draw even more people in. Then ditch presidential runs for a while. Concentrate on getting Senators in office. 15-20 Senators of the right mindset can block any legislation they want. That have been proven time and again. Then slowly make inroads in the House. But you need a block of about 100 members there to make any impact. THEN a presidental candidate. Would take at a minimum 4 election cycles to accomplish.
Posted by: JohnMc at February 12, 2015 03:22 PM (kC+qp)
531
It only took the Republican Party one election cycle to get the Presidency, and then they dominated the political culture for the next 50 years. Don't know why all the "third party" talk is so scary and off-limits for so many blog sites...
Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at February 12, 2015 03:22 PM (PEgKF)
532
Amen. It's about fucking time someone said it. Boehner is just another obstacle. Not an ally, maybe an enemy, but certainly an obstacle.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at February 12, 2015 03:23 PM (qo8gP)
Posted by: Shoey at February 12, 2015 03:28 PM (jdOk/)
534
Want to impact the rich? Then you need to impact the 535 morons in government. Might I suggest a different way of incentivizing these idiots? Their compensation would be dependent on --
* Low unemployment.
* Low tax rates across the board.
* Rising GDP.
* Gross number of small businesses formed.
* Reduction in the number of large businesses as a % of the small business growth formulation.
* % of government expenditures is below X.
Work the formula how you please. But when times are bad they get the message cause they feel it in the pocket book. When times are good and the policies right, they get a raise.
Till they feel the pain, the flatworms in Congress will not respond.
* Low unemployment.
* Low tax rates across the board.
* Rising GDP.
* Gross number of small businesses formed.
* Reduction in the number of large businesses as a % of the small business growth formulation.
* % of government expenditures is below X.
Work the formula how you please. But when times are bad they get the message cause they feel it in the pocket book. When times are good and the policies right, they get a raise.
Till they feel the pain, the flatworms in Congress will not respond.
Posted by: JohnMc at February 12, 2015 03:33 PM (kC+qp)
535
What an excellent post. Agreed on all points.
Posted by: Crude at February 12, 2015 03:41 PM (DUynq)
536
61
The goal of the Teaparty is not another party, it is to take over the Republican party.
Posted by: maddog
------------------------------------------------------------
"And that is why you fail..."
Until the Teas realize they have a brand to protect their ideals will be usurped by the devious and uncouth.
The goal of the Teaparty is not another party, it is to take over the Republican party.
Posted by: maddog
------------------------------------------------------------
"And that is why you fail..."
Until the Teas realize they have a brand to protect their ideals will be usurped by the devious and uncouth.
Posted by: JohnMc at February 12, 2015 04:03 PM (kC+qp)
537
Don't worry - I'm sure the Republicans will throw you enough petty crumbs (smoke and mirrors), red meat against the Democrats (i.e., bad cops), and scare tactics ('most importantest election ever111!!11!!), to let you get back aboard the plantation in time for the election.
Posted by: MlR at February 12, 2015 04:30 PM (fb1M2)
538
I was a member of the country republican central committee when I lived in Ohio a few seasons back (early 1990s). I sent my party card back and changed my registration when the stupid Rs, holding the governorship and the legislature, couldn't come up with a way to fund the schools.
Posted by: JimT Utah at February 12, 2015 05:17 PM (ckbBu)
539
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
I've been listening to you whining malcontents threatening to "leave the GOP forever" for, like, forever. Almost makes me want to listen to an Obama speech. Almost.
Look, Numchuks, ever hear the old Aesop fable about the boy who cried, "Wolf!" too often? Well, he annoyed the hell out of everybody and cost the whole flock, so the village killed him or something.
No one takes you seriously anymore. You are FULL OF CRAP. You aren't going anywhere, because then the rest of the Party could have a nice quiet dinner. And you don't really want to leave. You are too lazy and worthless to go out and start a new party. Nooooo, you'd rather stay and whine like children until someone else does the real work and THEN you can go and join up and start kvetching right away.
Ya bums.
How can we miss you when you just won't go away?
I've been listening to you whining malcontents threatening to "leave the GOP forever" for, like, forever. Almost makes me want to listen to an Obama speech. Almost.
Look, Numchuks, ever hear the old Aesop fable about the boy who cried, "Wolf!" too often? Well, he annoyed the hell out of everybody and cost the whole flock, so the village killed him or something.
No one takes you seriously anymore. You are FULL OF CRAP. You aren't going anywhere, because then the rest of the Party could have a nice quiet dinner. And you don't really want to leave. You are too lazy and worthless to go out and start a new party. Nooooo, you'd rather stay and whine like children until someone else does the real work and THEN you can go and join up and start kvetching right away.
Ya bums.
How can we miss you when you just won't go away?
Posted by: Adjoran at February 12, 2015 05:19 PM (QIQ6j)
540
They haven't improved since then. They are just less worse than the alternative. Not much less worse, just less.
Posted by: JimT Utah at February 12, 2015 05:20 PM (ckbBu)
541
@43: "Let's screw with the Constitution and replace it with the sort of system that led to Augusto Pinochet"
The Constitution is already dead, and Pinochet would be a vast improvement over what we've got now.
The Constitution is already dead, and Pinochet would be a vast improvement over what we've got now.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at February 12, 2015 09:06 PM (amQXf)
542
@Adjoran Gary Johnson got mine and over a million former Republican votes in the 2012 election.
So fuck you democrat lites.
So fuck you democrat lites.
Posted by: Sean at February 12, 2015 09:29 PM (p2q3U)
543
You people who want to start a 'new' Party are worse than the scum of the earth dimocraps.
You hand them their unearned Victory while taking down those that agree with you 80% of the time.
What's wrong? 80% isn't good enough for you?
So you'll sabotage our only hope of keeping this Country safe and free because all you can get is 80%
And hand it over to scum that you agree with 10% of the time? If that?
Fuck you. I mean it -- Fuck.You.
This is why the Tea Party isn't gaining traction with the electorate anymore...... Morons like you infest it.
And you are -- I mean you are seriously morons.
dimocrap scum everywhere are laughing at you, thanking you for the gifts you bring every election cycle
Fucking cry babies. You're worse than dimocraps.
Pick a side and look up the word 'loyalty'
You hand them their unearned Victory while taking down those that agree with you 80% of the time.
What's wrong? 80% isn't good enough for you?
So you'll sabotage our only hope of keeping this Country safe and free because all you can get is 80%
And hand it over to scum that you agree with 10% of the time? If that?
Fuck you. I mean it -- Fuck.You.
This is why the Tea Party isn't gaining traction with the electorate anymore...... Morons like you infest it.
And you are -- I mean you are seriously morons.
dimocrap scum everywhere are laughing at you, thanking you for the gifts you bring every election cycle
Fucking cry babies. You're worse than dimocraps.
Pick a side and look up the word 'loyalty'
Posted by: Uncle Rick at February 13, 2015 09:08 AM (ZbB1q)
544
"I am not only ready, but eager to ditch the corporate class -- and, frankly, the wealthiest 1% generally, which largely supports liberal policies -- and begin taking a very, very agnostic view on whether or not their taxes should be raised until it hurts."
Good Lord, has Ace been reading Sailer? Moldbug? MPC? (surely not)
Whatever the genesis is--external or influence or internal thought process--it is, it is very very welcome.
Good Lord, has Ace been reading Sailer? Moldbug? MPC? (surely not)
Whatever the genesis is--external or influence or internal thought process--it is, it is very very welcome.
Posted by: grabyj at February 13, 2015 12:42 PM (cdUfw)
545
I kind of wish that some of the cry babies on the right would go start their own party. That way whenever they crash and burn they can blame themselves instead of everyone else....but that won't happen. They will still blame the establishment. Threaten all manner of horrid things if everyone does not say how high when they say jump. It never stops. So go ahead...go...and do not let the door hit you on the way out honey.
Posted by: Terrye Cravens at February 13, 2015 04:32 PM (LmAC2)
546
@Uncle Rick
80%, HA! you seem to miss the point, Republicans rarely are in line with conservative or small government principles. 80% of the time they might say they are, but in practice they are just big government democrat lites.
Big government is big government, I don't care if its the democrats view of big government or the republican view of big government.
80%, HA! you seem to miss the point, Republicans rarely are in line with conservative or small government principles. 80% of the time they might say they are, but in practice they are just big government democrat lites.
Big government is big government, I don't care if its the democrats view of big government or the republican view of big government.
Posted by: Blooshier at February 13, 2015 05:01 PM (o3U8H)
547
the Republican Party apparatus is there for the taking by conservatives if they would deign to get away from their beloved keyboards for a few hours a month:
http://tinyurl.com/mmzcob9
http://tinyurl.com/qd76dlx
Complaining about the Republican Party will not change it. The ONLY way to change the Republican Party is by getting inside it and creating a conservative majority within the precinct committeeman ranks.
I hope this helps.
Thank you,
Cold Warrior
http://tinyurl.com/mmzcob9
http://tinyurl.com/qd76dlx
Complaining about the Republican Party will not change it. The ONLY way to change the Republican Party is by getting inside it and creating a conservative majority within the precinct committeeman ranks.
I hope this helps.
Thank you,
Cold Warrior
Posted by: Cold Warrior at February 13, 2015 09:03 PM (hEIin)
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They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat