Sunday Morning Book Thread 10-05-2014: Cry "Censorship!" [OregonMuse]

Banned! Er, Not Really

Here's a list of 30 banned books that may surprise you, but they probably won't. Naturally, many of the banning incidents are mentioned without date or context, probably to make sure they look as ridiculous as possible. But some of them probably should be banned, or at least restricted from younger readers. Like, for example, the unexpurgated Grimm's Fairy Tales:

But on closer inspection, parental concern is less surprising. In these versions of "Grimm's Fairy Tales" Snow White almost gets killed by a corset and Cinderella's stepsisters cut off parts of their own feet.

Perhaps it's not so bad in the original German.

And contrary to their pious platitudes, liberals aren't above banning books they don't like. Like 'Little House on the Prairie':

This installment in the wildly popular frontier series by real-life pioneer Wilder was banned from a South Dakota classroom because of comments the characters in the book made about Native Americans.

And then there's this:

London's story (The Call of the Wild) of a dog who lives the life of a pampered house pet until he gets a job pulling a sled was banned in Yugoslavia and Italy because of the author's socialist views. The book was also burned by the Nazis in 1933.

Heh. Everybody hates Jack London, socialists and anti-socialists alike!

That other Twain novel about Huck Finn has faced a raftload of controversy ever since the day it was first published. But "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" was also banned when librarians said they found Mr. Sawyer to be a "questionable" protagonist in terms of his moral character.

Yeah well, I googled for, but couldn't find, the letter Twain wrote supporting the removal of 'Tom Sawyer' from a New York school library. He had to explain to a frustrated librarian that his novel was never intended for children.

Also, 'Tom Sawyer' and 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn' get protested a lot by liberals who don't like Twain using the n-word or the i-word.

Of course, the larger picture is that all of this talk of "banned" books is nonsense, at least in this country:

The thing is, a book hasn't been banned in the United States for decades. The ban on John Cleland's erotic novel Fanny Hill was overturned by the Supreme Court in 1966 because it did not meet the court's definition of obscenity. Since then, no book has actually been banned in the sense that there has been a government prohibition on its printing or sales...The "challenges" described above are requests based on the discretion of individuals or organizations, not mandated by the government.

But proclaiming that you're "against censorship" is a good way to score cheap political points and also to feel virtuous without really doing much of anything.

Remember, it isn't censorship unless it's the government that's doing it. Only the government has the force of law behind it.

Cards

You can now buy a deck of playing cards with caricatures of famous authors on them. Go ahead, you know you want to. You'll be the hit of your writing group or book club!

And some of those author caricatures look pretty funny, I must say.

"Trash"

I haven't heard the name Harold Robbins in years (which isn't surprising, since he died back in 1997), but back in the day, he was the king of the "trashy" novelists. But he never cared about the literary critics who reviled his books, because he sat so high atop his giant pile of money that he couldn't hear them.

Robbins' novels are famous for two things, their (a) compulsive readability, and (b) sexual explicitness. If you can handle that, Dreams Die First, originally published in 1977 is available for a limited time at the BookBub 99-cent sale price. I'll probably pass on this one, but I admit I'm kind of curious about his first novel Never Love a Stranger, published in 1948. Supposedly, Robbins' boss bet him $100 that he couldn't write a novel, so he did, and looky here, it became a best seller.

And Speaking of Trash...

You'll all be thrilled to know that Lena Dunham has a book out, her "memoirs", as it were. I'm not going to bother linking it, because none of us will be interested in buying it, anyway. Oh, what the heck, they paid Dunham a whopping $3.5M advance for Not That Kind of Girl: A Young Woman Tells You What She's "Learned", (quotes in the original) so I guess I'll link it.

This TNR review was mostly negative, which surprised me a bit. I mean, Dunham is supposed to be the voice of a generation of disaffected young women, so you'd think the cultural mavens at TNR would be all over that. But I, on the other hand, am not all over that, and in fact, my question is, why is anyone other than a therapist or qualified caregiver listening to anything this poor, disturbed woman has to say, much less pay her three and a half million dollars to say it out loud and in public?

I mean, look at this:

Dunham's parents are New-York-loft-dwelling artists. Her father Carroll's work includes garish nudes of women with riot-red labia, some executed in crayon like the drawings of a particularly disturbed five-year-old. Her mother, Laurie Simmons, explores a miniature world; she poses dolls in strange, sometimes sexually suggestive ways, their heads replaced by guns or model houses. In the 1970s, Dunham says, her mother "invented the selfie," taking hundreds of naked photographs of herself.

Yeesh. Where are the intrusive child protection agencies when you need them? With an upbringing like that, Lena Dunham wouldn't know 'normal' if it jumped up and smacked her in the face. And actually, I kind of feel sorry for her, now that I know what she's had to grow up with. No wonder she's so messed up.

Mack Bolan: Progressive Tough Guy or Mystic Avatar of Healing Light?

So I guess author Don Pendleton, before he died in 1995, wrote about 35 or so or his "Executioner" novels featuring action hero Mack Bolan and the one advertised as a Bookbub freebie this week, Artic Kill, looks like it's not one of the originals, but one that came later when the Executioner became a franchise and was turned over to a consortium of writers. But whatever the case, the blurb on the cover, "White supremacists threaten to unleash a deadly virus" strikes me as being somewhat ludicrous. White supremacists? Really? Has the Executioner gotten all politically correct now? I haven't begun reading any Mack Bolan novels, but I shudder to think what they're making the series into, and if he's going to be all, you know, fighting evil corporations who are destroying the environment, like he's Billy Jack ver. 2.0, I don't feel particularly inclined to start.

Best stick with the originals, maybe.

Another thing I found out about Don Pendleton is that he wrote some non-fiction books, published after his death by his wife Linda, on various metaphysical topics, for example, The Cosmic Breath: Metaphysical Essays of Don Pendleton, and also Whispers From the Soul: The Divine Dance of Consciousness, which, according to the Amazon, blurb

synthesizes the most meaningful elements of human understanding and spirituality from the most ancient days to the present in an exploration of the profound wisdom of the ages through the arts and sciences, philosophies, religious and spiritual expressions, which have fashioned human consciousness...

So in other words, Pendleton is (or was) apparently a New Age kind of guy. That's something I normally would not associate with the creator of hard-boiled, "this-worldly" characters like Mack Bolan and Joe Copp. Maybe this shouldn't strike me as odd, but it does. Of course, perhaps I'm making the classic mistake in assuming that an author has to be like the characters he creates, and there's generally a lot more to authors than what you read in their books.

Books of Note

I've never heard of spy/espionage author Noel Hynd until one of his novels, Truman's Spy, got the Bookbub on-sale-for-99-cents treatment. Hynd has written a number of spy novels, one of which, Flowers from Berlin, is said a classic American spy novel.

But not only spy novels. Hynd has also written about baseball, notably Giants of the Polo Grounds: The Glorious Times of Baseball's New York Giants and another book about a scandal that sounds like a beta version of the Joe DiMaggio/Marilyn Monroe hookup, Ragtime Romance: The Scandalous True Story of Baseball's Rube Marquard and Vaudeville's Blossom Seeley (warning for mildly NSFW vintage pr0n cover art). I wonder if moron commenter Mary Poppin's Practically Perfect Piercing, who's a veritable encyclopedia of the early days of Hollywood, knows any stories about these two?

What I'm Reading

I'm about half way through Slow Boat To Purgatory, Book One by Vernon Baker, and mostly enjoying it. It's a very good first novel, and Mr. Baker clearly knows how to write. It's hard to explain what this book is about without giving out too many spoilers, but the author uses figures drawn from both the Christian and the classical worlds to tell a story of the battle of ultimate Good vs. Evil, and the struggle of each side for the souls of men. It involves Heaven, Hell, and many points in between. The first chapter hooks you right away by dropping you smack bang in the middle of an urban WWII battle. It's not an "action" novel as such, but it does provide a fair number of suspense and thrills.

I'm very much looking forward to the sequel, The Arimathean.

___________

So that's all for this week. As always, book thread tips, suggestions, bribes, rumors, threats, and insults may be sent to OregonMuse, Proprietor, AoSHQ Book Thread, at the book thread e-mail address: aoshqbookthread, followed by the 'at' sign, and then 'G' mail, and then dot cee oh emm.

What have you all been reading this week? Hopefully something good, because, as I keep saying, life is too short to be reading lousy books.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:36 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Dunham : drugs were/are involved somewhere.

Posted by: Aim to Disbelivin' at October 05, 2014 09:35 AM (teTih)

2
I know someone who has all these Henry Miller books that were BANNED IN BOSTON!!1!!!

They were seized and a censure went through them with a pencil and blacked out all the naughty words. LOL

Posted by: The Progs at October 05, 2014 09:37 AM (iQIUe)

3 As a child, we had a card-matching game, where the cards were of authors and their works. It was where I first became aware of many of the Great Authors (Scott, Twain, Alcott, Dumas, Poe, and probably about 20 others). I was 7 or 8 when we played this game.

Posted by: I lurk, therefore I amn't at October 05, 2014 09:39 AM (cr0Pu)

4
When Mark Twain heard that Sholem Aleichem was referred to as "the Jewish Mark Twain", he said "please tell him that I am the American Sholem Aleichem."

This always cracked me up.

Posted by: The Progs at October 05, 2014 09:41 AM (iQIUe)

5 Lena Dunham's movie "Tiny Furniture" was pretty autobiographical, as her mother in the movie was clearly modeled on her real-life mother. I thought the movie was rather meh although visually it was very clever on a bare bones budget. I saw it because Nolte from Breitbart gave it a rave for a first-time writer/director.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 09:41 AM (QBm1P)

6 Want to have fun? Ask a librarian the difference between censorship and weeding.

(Not counting the weeding due to lack of usage.)

Posted by: Andyzero at October 05, 2014 09:43 AM (kWC30)

7 Reading the first pages from "Flowers From Berlin" on Amazon is making my skin itch.

Posted by: Aim to Disbelivin' at October 05, 2014 09:45 AM (teTih)

8 I read "The Fire Seekers" for free on my Kindle. It won't be released until next month. It's one of the free first offerings this month. It was good story, but the open hatred for religion was bit much. Still, I'm intrigued enough to read the next in the series when it is on the market.

Posted by: no good deed at October 05, 2014 09:45 AM (w3a0Z)

9 Twain's letters at: http://www.twainquotes.com/19351102.html

Posted by: Ranger at October 05, 2014 09:45 AM (lJLWz)

10 I have the wonderful fortune of finally being offered a job after a long time out of the workforce. The job comes with a commute of about 45 minutes each way. I've never had to commute that far before.

Do any commuters find that audio books help the time pass? Are they distracting in heavy traffic?

Anybody have any to recommend?

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 09:50 AM (95xxa)

11 Dollars to donuts Ms Dunham invented her rape story. Because lying and resenting is what angels do.

Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at October 05, 2014 09:50 AM (7RXcs)

12 Lena Dunham is a grown woman who is responsible for her own behavior. That being said, with her parents being as apparently fcuked up as they were and her living in the entertainment world bubble, she hasn't much chance.

Posted by: Insomniac at October 05, 2014 09:52 AM (mx5oN)

13 11 And of course she was raped by a " campus Republican".

Posted by: steevy at October 05, 2014 09:53 AM (v5UtH)

14 Has anyone here read Scalzi's new book, "Lock In"? Is it any good? It's almost 11 bucks for the kindle version, and I'm not willing to shell out that kind of scratch unless it's something I can enjoyably read over and over again.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 05, 2014 09:53 AM (0IhFx)

15 Remember, it isn't censorship unless it's the government that's doing it. Only the government has the force of law behind it.

We need t-shirts with this emblazoned on them in big bold letters.

#twoweeks

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 05, 2014 09:57 AM (Zu3d9)

16 Elinor, first, congratulations on the job. Second, I've only listened to audio books on long drives, where you don't have to be so alert. But I found I could still pay attention to both the book and the road without too much trouble.

Posted by: kali at October 05, 2014 09:58 AM (zC6PR)

17 Perhaps [Grimm]'s not so bad in the original German.

Perfect deadpan. LOL.

As for the comic up top, Asay has always rubbed me the wrong way. We wants us to believe that this same prof went against traditional gender roles and supported parental authority? I could at least see a neo-reactionary and/or authoritarian junking rah-rah histories of the US. . . that would at least be consistent.

Asay delivers comfort-food with no content. Always has.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 05, 2014 10:00 AM (9y6HJ)

18 16 Elinor, first, congratulations on the job. Second, I've only listened to audio books on long drives, where you don't have to be so alert. But I found I could still pay attention to both the book and the road without too much trouble.
Posted by: kali at October 05, 2014 09:58 AM (zC6PR)

I find listening to audiobooks helps me concentrate on the road while music is distracting...

Posted by: MikeH at October 05, 2014 10:01 AM (4OZqu)

19 WOW. That was a lot of work. Thanks Oregon!

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 05, 2014 10:01 AM (0FSuD)

20 11 And of course she was raped by a " campus Republican".

Which probably means she had drunken consensual sex with a frat boy who was hogging it that night. Happened all the time when I was in college. The brothers would chip in to a pot and whoever bedded the ugliest girl won the pot.

It was cruel and juvenile, but it didn't include rape, or rape-rape.

Posted by: Josef K loved him too at October 05, 2014 10:01 AM (RcpcZ)

21 I rarely re-post, but. Said this yesterday, and it belongs in here today:

Here is a plug for Plagues and Peoples by William MacNeill. He
just about originated the [still-arguable] idea that communicable
disease acts like it was "designed," because of the adaptabilities
inferred from factors like how long the host lives -- and the idea that
previous city-vacating plagues are now mild childhood diseases. For
Athens, I think it was mumps.

MacNeill was by many measures the
only conservative historian of his generation. In "The Rise of The West"
he traced cultural history as a series of inventions and their spread,
and introduced the idea of the opening and closing of "ecumenes."

On
Halloween, he will turn ninety-seven years of age. If you read every
damned word he's ever written, you will not have wasted one minute.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at October 05, 2014 10:02 AM (xq1UY)

22 Ack! Off with the cartoon thread sock.

Posted by: Josef K at October 05, 2014 10:02 AM (RcpcZ)

23 My parents had a set of cards, where every card had some tidbit from "Ripley's Believe It Or Not". It was impossible to play a card game with them though, because people were always reading their cards. I think there were only about 4 cards that had the same thing on them.

Posted by: nnptcgrad at October 05, 2014 10:03 AM (Opyrm)

24 Lena Dunham is one of the current Hollywood darlings, so I don't feel too bad for her. She has no one to blame for her sad need to put her naked bod in every episode of her show. Like having messed up parents is an excuse - see our f'ed president.

Posted by: Lizzy at October 05, 2014 10:04 AM (D/504)

25 OK - still reading REAMDE. I'm s-l-o-w, but the action is picking up a bit.

Posted by: Lizzy at October 05, 2014 10:04 AM (D/504)

26 The real censorship is going on in the public and charter school level, where they piously declare that they are secular by law and cannot have any "sectarian" literature on their shelves:

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/california.school.bans.all.christian.books/41072.htm

And yes, since they raised the card that they're government-run, they are absolutely censoring what their students can read.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 05, 2014 10:05 AM (9y6HJ)

27 24 Lena Dunham is one of the current Hollywood darlings, so I don't feel too bad for her. She has no one to blame for her sad need to put her naked bod in every episode of her show. Like having messed up parents is an excuse - see our f'ed president.
Posted by: Lizzy at October 05, 2014 10:04 AM (D/504)

Oh, I'm certainly not making any excuses. But having completely screwed up parents can have pretty messed up long lasting effects on a person. It's still up to the person to deal with it once they're adults.

Posted by: Insomniac at October 05, 2014 10:07 AM (mx5oN)

28 Dunham is supposed to be the voice of a generation of disaffected young women.... who are fat, ugly, tattooed, angry and yet somehow still surprised they can't get a date.

Posted by: David St. Hubbins at October 05, 2014 10:09 AM (4HYng)

29 If Dunham was raped, I'm sure the police blotter for the period will mention something - oh wait. She didn't press charges? Didn't tell anyone at the time?

Honey, there's a difference between "rape" and "wishing I hadn't done that and ow this hangover sucks". If the latter counts, then most morons here have been raped a few times in their life

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 05, 2014 10:09 AM (9y6HJ)

30 14 Has anyone here read Scalzi's new book, "Lock In"? Is it any good? It's almost 11 bucks for the kindle version, and I'm not willing to shell out that kind of scratch unless it's something I can enjoyably read over and over again.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 05, 2014 09:53 AM (0IhFx)

*****************

Even though John Scalzi the person doesn't thrill me, I generally enjoy his books, particularly those in the "Old Man's War" universe.

"Lock In" is a quick read and Scalzi does well with setting up the near future premise of the aftermath of a devastating disease that locks totally aware people in their bodies and the society that emerges when technology allows them to project their consciousness into an android type robot that can interact with the world.

If you search at Tor.com, you can find the first five chapters for free. Also, there is a short prequel novella to "Lock In" called "Unlocked" that is available there, too. You can decide if you want to buy the book after reading those.

I enjoyed "Lock In", but I found it interesting that it seemed to be written in a way that would make it perfect for adapting into a script for a procedural crime drama.

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 10:09 AM (95xxa)

31 I don't know which translation is accurate but there are at least a couple versions of the koran that deserve to be banned.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at October 05, 2014 10:11 AM (jtgkZ)

32
Remember, it isn't censorship unless it's the government that's doing it.

Call it the Tragedy of the Uncommons, if you will. Or Carnegie's Folly.
Libraries get built by philanthropists, and then handed over to levy-funded government entities with civil service staff. 99 cases out of 100, if a librarian culls it, it's government (I'm including universities in that WAG). Count in the federal grants, and it's 100%.

This always gets me about land conservancies. They raise all kinds of money, purchase waste land...and then turn it over to the state departments of natural resources, to be f*cked up however the electorate is leaning. In almost every case, "Nature" would be better served if the land remained in private hands.

Money where mouth: my "sportsman's" club just bought 200+ acres at the other end of our state -- and the credit union wouldn't do the financing because "gun." We've changed banks, of course. Local "Farmers" bank was happy to give us their very best rate.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at October 05, 2014 10:12 AM (xq1UY)

33 31 I don't know which translation is accurate but there are at least a couple versions of the koran that deserve to be banned.
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at October 05, 2014 10:11 AM (jtgkZ)

How about all of them?

Posted by: Insomniac at October 05, 2014 10:12 AM (mx5oN)

34 Okay OT but needs pointing out:

Actual headline from today's Chicago Tribune:

American with Ebola 'fighting for his life' in Dallas hospital

Got that? The Tribune has decided that Mr. Ebola from Liberia is now an American.

Posted by: WhyMe at October 05, 2014 10:13 AM (l9mF2)

35 Thanks, kali and MikeH!

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 10:13 AM (95xxa)

36 Asay has always rubbed me the wrong way. We wants us to believe that this same prof went against traditional gender roles and supported parental authority?

Yeah, I did notice that the prof wasn't a real consistent character, but I decided to go with the cartoon, anyway, because, hey, censorship.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 10:14 AM (yRdR4)

37 I don't know which translation is accurate but there are at least a couple versions of the koran that deserve to be banned.

There's only one version of the Koran. Nobody is saying that, for instance, sura 9 is bogus.

By contrast with the New Testament, which you *can* get in a form that has the Gospel of Thomas and relegates 2 Peter to the side, if one is so inclined. Nobody at the Jesus Seminar ever lost a head for it.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 05, 2014 10:14 AM (9y6HJ)

38 "Happened all the time when I was in college. The brothers would chip in
to a pot and whoever bedded the ugliest girl won the pot...."

---

When I was a pledge at my fraternity, the guys joked about having an "ugly date party" and imagined conversational ice breaking compliments like, "Gee, for a fat girl, you don't sweat too much".

Then the first date party came along and I saw their real dates. I thought to myself, "Yeesh, I thought they were kidding." Fun times.

Posted by: Chip at October 05, 2014 10:16 AM (4HYng)

39 I saw good reviews of Terry Hayes' thriller "I Am Pilgrim". The fact that it was sold to Emily Bestler (publishes Brad Thor) based on the first 200 pages was intriguing.

The first 200 pages are rocket-propelled. Very clever. Something breaks down in the final 400 pages. Even Kirkus said it should have been 100 pages shorter. (Didn't see that review until I had read most of the book.)

Another warning sign: no Brad Thor blurb. I've found his rare blurbs reliable.

So, the book is incredibly inventive, has fascinating characters, and a great terrorist plot. However, the Infinite Improbability Drive is turned up to 11 on this one and the coincidences don't work. The author also doesn't know when to stop.

Eighty pages to go, I want to see how he ends it but really wish it had ended 100 pages ago.

I gem of great beauty, but with significant flaws.

Posted by: doug at October 05, 2014 10:17 AM (qlVwF)

40 I needed a break from all the ebola news and the way the gummint is dealing with it so well. Also waiting for the Nationals to win their first damn NLDS game! (Lost by 1 run in the 18th inning!!! Shit!) So:

I've been reading the sequels to M*A*S*H, "MASH goes to Maine" and "MASH Mania" by Richard Hooker. These are charming books consisting of vignettes of the lives of small town Maine characters. The doctors from the original MASH book provide continuity. The characters are well drawn, the stories are by turns silly, hilarious, touching, and poignant. The medical aspects are, as far as I can tell, accurate. (The author was a real doctor in Korea and afterwards.) It might help my enjoyment that I grew up in a small New England town on the ocean. Also, I can hear the old 'down east' accents from the local characters' dialog. And the writing is definitely NOT politically correct. These books provide a pleasant interlude.

(There was a series of "MASH Goes To ..." books with Hooker's name but written by another author. This series includes many of the same characters but the tone is silly/absurd. Not in the same class as the first books. Their charm, such as it is, is that they skewer phonies and are absolutely non-PC.)

Also, I've been rereading some of the Vineyard mysteries by Philip Craig. Seems to be a week for New England coast stories. Maybe I should look into the Thoreau meanderings about New England. Might as well stay with the theme.

Posted by: JTB at October 05, 2014 10:17 AM (FvdPb)

41 I'm reading The Enormous Room be E. E. Cummings (or should that be ee cummings?) on my Kindle.
It's about his time in a French prison due WW I.
Slightly slow read but good.

Posted by: Northernlurker at October 05, 2014 10:17 AM (AkoL+)

42 I'm on an essay reading kick. Read most of the Best American Essays 2013 edition and have been combing through sites like the Electric Typewriter (tet.org).

The Best Am. Essays has some very good ones - I would recommend it.

Someone here last week mentioned only having the attention span for short stories. I think that has happened to me also - (I'm not much of a fiction reader) - I have just enough attention for an essay.

Posted by: Jade Sea at October 05, 2014 10:18 AM (VWssQ)

43 English translations of the koran differ. I've read one that is the 'soft' version as in 'people of the book' includes Christians, doesn't command the faithful to smite the necks of Jews, and completely omitted the instructions for the care and feeding of your prepubescent wife.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at October 05, 2014 10:19 AM (jtgkZ)

44 Dunham clearly grew up with trust baby parents.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 05, 2014 10:21 AM (0FSuD)

45 Actually, there are several books that, if you are in possession of them, the Feds will likely find SOMETHING to charge you with. Not 'banned' per se, but, you are a BAAAAAD person if you have them:

Anarchists Cookbook

The Encyclopedia of Jihad

Protocols of the Elders

Behold a Pale Horse

and of course, one of the top ones: The Turner Diaries

I know many fed-types who, when investigating someone, if they found these, they got confiscated. I know that in the military, these books ARE 'banned'...

Posted by: Mr Wolf at October 05, 2014 10:25 AM (wLKxc)

46 Insomniac - I guess I'm harsh in judging people like Dunham because they are happily being used by media/entertainment to redefine normal. Maybe some day she'll wonder if there is a different approach to life and change course, or maybe she'll be successful in convincing many of the ladies of her generation that her style of dysfunction is the coolest (potentially leading them to less satisfying lives). These are the people I feel sorry for - the ones who buy that crap. I sometimes read gossip sites and the comments are so depressing - they may find Dunham's shtick a bit annoying, but they're still all "Yeah, Dunham is such an accomplished person who plays by her own rules and depicts what life is like for our generation! That's feminism!"

Posted by: Lizzy at October 05, 2014 10:26 AM (D/504)

47
"Happened all the time when I was in college. The brothers would chip in

to a pot and whoever bedded the ugliest girl won the pot...."

Pigs In Space night, Fallon NE.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at October 05, 2014 10:27 AM (V22Sh)

48 Authors cards have been around forever, haven't they? At least since I was a kid in the 70s, which is forever.

Posted by: Bud Norton at October 05, 2014 10:27 AM (KoWnw)

49 @45 Most are sold at local gun shows in Virginia.

Posted by: doug at October 05, 2014 10:30 AM (qlVwF)

50 Books this week: "Curse" and "Raveler" by John D. Brown (Dark God books 2 and 3), "Untalented" by Katrina Archer. Currently on Chris Hechtl's "No Place Like Home". I hear rumors that Mike Kupari is writing a new one, he co-wrote the Dead Six series with Larry "International Lord of Hate" Correia so I'm really looking forward to that.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at October 05, 2014 10:34 AM (V22Sh)

51 Still reading short stories. Flannery O"Connor this week. The title story from a good man is hard to find is pretty grim. But then much of what she writes is grim I guess. I'm thinking I'll go back to Tennessee Williams when I'm finished with this book. My days are grim enough without wallowing in it during the off hours.

Posted by: DrC at October 05, 2014 10:35 AM (TTLJp)

52 And actually, I kind of feel sorry for her, now that I know what she's had to grow up with. No wonder she's so messed up.

yep

freaks as parents

many of us are so lucky

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 05, 2014 10:36 AM (IXrOn)

53

Merge both of Lena's parents and you get one Cher.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 05, 2014 10:38 AM (IXrOn)

54 . I know that in the military, these books ARE 'banned'...
Posted by: Mr Wolf at October 05, 2014 10:25 AM (wLKxc)
--------
I had a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook in my room in the barracks! As a joke, mind you. All it got was a cocked eyebrow during room inspections.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 10:41 AM (QBm1P)

55 Think I'll read Moby Dick again. Mine is an old Modern Library issue, with the illustrations by the great artist and communist Rockwell Kent.

It always seems Shakespearean to me, the parts taking place on the deck of the ship.

We have visited the town of Hudson, NY, one of the many prison towns on the river way up near Albany. I say way up because it seems like it would be quite a sail running upstream after entering New York harbor.

Hudson was a whaling port at the time whale hunting was America's energy industry for lighting. For a crew that had just spent maybe four years running all around the Pacific, that little sail up the river must have been a very short home stretch, and a pleasant ride. Certainly more placid than running through the Magellan straights.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at October 05, 2014 10:42 AM (tmFlQ)

56 Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 10:41 AM (QBm1P)

What was your favorite recipe, or are you going to save that for the " cooking" thread?

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 10:49 AM (o3MSL)

57 At Amazon, they actually offer on Kindle something called the "Antichrist Cookbook". Thought it might be a parody, but it's about majick and occult stuff. Doesn't look good.

http://tinyurl.com/luhpag3

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 10:51 AM (95xxa)

58 Authors cards have been around forever, haven't they? At least since I was a kid in the 70s, which is forever.

Posted by: Bud Norton at October 05, 2014 10:27 AM

Seeing what authors look like, even in caricature, can be enormously depressing. You get a mental image of your favorite author over time, and BOOM!! when you see him/her, you realize said Literary Giant looks just like some gink you'd see at the local WallyMart.

Same with their voices. I was sure Elmore Leonard had to be some macho, in-your-face dude whose hands were too scarred to work a pen or typewriter before taking a couple shot to numb the pain. I heard an interview, and dude was Droopy Dog.

Never really liked Mack Bolan, but just found a Travis McGee book I hadn't read on the book table at the local supermarket. John D MacDonald FTW!

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 05, 2014 10:53 AM (A17aa)

59 This past week I've been rereading H.P. Lovecraft. He definitely doesn't write easy-reading page-turners. People carp about his vocabulary (heavy on words like "eldritch" and "squamous") but I think what really turns off a lot of readers is his pacing. His stories really do drag a bit, and he has a bad habit of sticking spoilers into the exposition way too early.

Imagine if HPL had been paired with a good editor who actually understood what he was doing. Horace Gold could have helped Lovecraft polish his work and strip it down, or maybe even August Derleth if he could have overcome his fanboy attitude toward Lovecraft.

Instead he got Farnsworth Wright at Weird Tales, who apparently preferred to just reject stories rather than edit them.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 05, 2014 10:54 AM (ZzQga)

60 OregonMuse, thanks for the Chuck Asay cartoon. He was the cartoonist for the Colorado Springs Gazette for many years. He's a great guy.

Posted by: Mindy at October 05, 2014 10:55 AM (YpZ43)

61 Antichrist Cookbook sounds like "Demon Summoning for Kids"

I do love this animated short:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyjw0ZLyzpE

Posted by: Kindltot at October 05, 2014 10:56 AM (t//F+)

62 What was your favorite recipe, or are you going to save that for the " cooking" thread?
Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 10:49 AM (o3MSL)
-----------
Bangalore torpedoes with Sriracha sauce.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 10:56 AM (QBm1P)

63 46 Insomniac - I guess I'm harsh in judging people like Dunham because they are happily being used by media/entertainment to redefine normal. Maybe some day she'll wonder if there is a different approach to life and change course, or maybe she'll be successful in convincing many of the ladies of her generation that her style of dysfunction is the coolest (potentially leading them to less satisfying lives). These are the people I feel sorry for - the ones who buy that crap. I sometimes read gossip sites and the comments are so depressing - they may find Dunham's shtick a bit annoying, but they're still all "Yeah, Dunham is such an accomplished person who plays by her own rules and depicts what life is like for our generation! That's feminism!"
Posted by: Lizzy at October 05, 2014 10:26 AM (D/504)

I get where you're coming from. I agree it's a very destructive example, and I think it's entirely on purpose.

Posted by: Insomniac at October 05, 2014 10:56 AM (mx5oN)

64 Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 10:56 AM (QBm1P)

Sounds yummy, but I'd like a side of fires with that please!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 10:58 AM (o3MSL)

65 Anyone who has been the subject of New York Times articles since she was 11, and got fat TV and book deals on the basis of little or no talent, obviously is a media creation. Harsh criticism of her is justified because she has no real accomplishments.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 05, 2014 10:58 AM (ZzQga)

66 Seeing what authors look like, even in caricature, can be enormously depressing.
Posted by: MrScribbler

To this very day I can picture an interview I saw with Joseph Heller. He literally drooled and spit bits of foam from his mouth as he spoke and gestured wildly at his interviewer. I wasn't a huge fan but after that I shuddered when I thought of him.

Posted by: Daybrother at October 05, 2014 11:01 AM (EBfwj)

67 Ah, Mack Bolan, the male version of Harlequin Romances. I used to read of ton of those (including the painfully named spin-offs) when I was 13 or 14 years old. Believe it or not, the books were pretty even-handed in depicting Communists, Neo-Nazis and fanatical Jihadists as pretty much equally evil and deserving of death and destruction. Granted, this may have been driven by the new to come up with new adversaries in order to prevent repetition (There are something like, what, 200+ Mack Bolan books in print?)

I usually can't think of Don Pendleton/Mack Bolan without thinking of "The Destroyer" series. Much funnier writing and less preachiness in the early Murphy and Sapir books (I understand that the Destroyer franchise became very PC and nigh unreadable once they got past issue #50 or so....)

Posted by: Pave Low John at October 05, 2014 11:01 AM (b5yHT)

68 Back when I was a kid just about every teenage boy had a dog-eared copy of the Anarchists Cookbook, usually inherited from an older brother or cousin. We were all daydreaming about stringing up wires to "clothesline" enemy motorcycle couriers, or about building pipe bombs for when shit got real.

It would probably make the authors of that book do a spit-take to realize this was the 1980s, we were all big fans of the movie Red Dawn, and we were daydreaming about fighting for America against the Communists.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 05, 2014 11:02 AM (ZzQga)

69 ...they may find Dunham's shtick a bit annoying, but they're still all
"Yeah, Dunham is such an accomplished person who plays by her own rules
and depicts what life is like for our generation! That's feminism!"

Posted by: Lizzy at October 05, 2014 10:26 AM

Yeah, but I'd hit...wait, who am I kidding? No I wouldn't.

There are paper bags to cover the face, makeup might hide the tats, and she could probably drop 20+ pounds if she set her mind to it, but how do you cover up what's inside her head?

* shivers *

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 05, 2014 11:02 AM (A17aa)

70 Posted by: Trimegistus at October 05, 2014 10:58 AM (ZzQga)

I think you meant to say "..., got fat, and got TV and book..."

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:02 AM (o3MSL)

71 Snow White almost gets killed by a corset and Cinderella's stepsisters cut off parts of their own feet. Perhaps it's not so bad in the original German.

Pretty sure it is.

Posted by: Blacksheep at October 05, 2014 11:04 AM (bS6uW)

72 Hey, I've got a copy of "MASH goes to Maine" (original paperback issue, back when it was priced at 50 cents or so) - and yes, the stories are great - since they were, IIRC, written by the original author, who was an Army surgeon in Korea and did settle down in Maine. Enjoyed it very much, back then - must get out and re-read. Right now, currently up to the Saxon era in Edward Rutherford's "Sarum". I remember reading it when it first came out; I was interested because I had visited Old Sarum and Stonehenge when I went to Europe with the Girl Scout troop I belonged to in 1970. We visited Old Sarum on a summer evening, and that's when I first realized how very long the evenings lasted in Northern Europe in summer. It was evocative - the shadows and the ruins, and the long shadows stretching out below the hills. This was before Stonehenge was fenced off - we could go straight up and sit on the stones; just a semi-circle of them, sitting in a field of mown grass. I remember some of the other kids staying in the Youth Hostel with us had plans to go out on mid-summer evening, and spend the night sleeping among the ruins so they could see the sun set and rise between the stones.

Finally - Lone Star Sons is up at Amazon, in print and Kindle! http://tinyurl.com/msu4vkj
Those 'Rons and 'Ronettes who volunteered to be Alpha readers will have their autographed copies in the mail next week sometime!

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at October 05, 2014 11:05 AM (95iDF)

73 71 Snow White almost gets killed by a corset and Cinderella's stepsisters cut off parts of their own feet. Perhaps it's not so bad in the original German.

Pretty sure it is.
Posted by: Blacksheep at October 05, 2014 11:04 AM (bS6uW)

There's a lot more scat fetish.

Posted by: Insomniac at October 05, 2014 11:05 AM (mx5oN)

74 Regarding the prof's inconsistency in the cartoon, it makes more sense if you view it as Chuck showing him being hoisted by his own petard.

Posted by: Mindy at October 05, 2014 11:05 AM (YpZ43)

75 Prediction: in about ten years (after her career flames out, booze/alcohol, and rehab) Lena Dunham is going to Get Religion is a very public way.The specific religion doesn't matter -- it's unlikely that she'll be born again, because her tribal/ideological identity is so strongly against that, but she might go Catholic or Scientologist.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 05, 2014 11:06 AM (ZzQga)

76 Behold a Pale Horse

I had not heard of this one. Then I looked it up on wikipedia. Hoo boy. It appears to be the mother of all conspiracy theory books, combining several of them, including AIDS denialism, UFOs and aliens, the Illuminati, etc, into one, big pile of doo-doo. For example:

"In Behold a Pale Horse, Cooper asserted that John F. Kennedy was assassinated because he was about to reveal that extraterrestrials were in the process of taking over the Earth."

Ho---kay.

If you're really interested in reading this book, pdf copies are readily available for download, so you won't have to pay for it.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 11:10 AM (yRdR4)

77 Perhaps it's not so bad in the original German.
---------------
Deep down, you know it's even worse.

I have an old version of Grimm's with a story in which a king is looking for a replacement for his beloved late wife, and the final sentence is him realizing the perfect new wife would be his daughter and they get married. It's called "The Many-Furred Creature" if you need an emetic.

I screamed and threw the book at the wall. This was read to children! Blecch!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 11:11 AM (QBm1P)

78 61 Antichrist Cookbook sounds like "Demon Summoning for Kids"

I do love this animated short:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyjw0ZLyzpE

Posted by: Kindltot at October 05, 2014 10:56 AM (t//F+)

********

Oooooh, I want a Belphagor 100% Demon Made in Hell!

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 11:13 AM (95xxa)

79 Prediction: in about ten years (after her career flames out, booze/alcohol, and rehab) Lena Dunham is going to Get Religion is a very public way.The specific religion doesn't matter -- it's unlikely that she'll be born again, because her tribal/ideological identity is so strongly against that, but she might go Catholic or Scientologist.

Nope. Muslim. Bet on it. She'll be flaunting her new hijab all over the pages of Vogue.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 11:15 AM (yRdR4)

80 Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 11:10 AM (yRdR4)

I think one might wish to be very cautious about downloading PDF files from a site that offers copies of "Pale Horse" and other interesting literature. IIRC, there are some potential malware issues with PDF.

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:16 AM (o3MSL)

81 @Elinor, I used to commute an hour and a half each way. The only audio book I tried was Shelby Foote's Civil War book. It was enjoyable and made the trip go by faster. However, I'm not an audible learner, so it didn't stick with me. Light reading might be better.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 05, 2014 11:17 AM (Lqy/e)

82 IIRC, there are some potential malware issues with PDF.
Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:16 AM (o3MSL)
--------------
Plus you might inadvertently summon Illuminati-controlled UFO demons.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 11:18 AM (QBm1P)

83 I am on the second Matt Helm book - "The Wrecking Crew"

Posted by: perdogg at October 05, 2014 11:21 AM (V/KDu)

84 81 @Elinor, I used to commute an hour and a half each way. The only audio book I tried was Shelby Foote's Civil War book. It was enjoyable and made the trip go by faster. However, I'm not an audible learner, so it didn't stick with me. Light reading might be better.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 05, 2014 11:17 AM (Lqy/e)

********

Thanks. I may have to experiment a little, maybe even try out learn-a-language CDs.

Or maybe just stick to music.

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 11:23 AM (95xxa)

85 Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 05, 2014 11:17 AM (Lqy/e)

I think audiobooks are great for travel, but as you say more for passing the time, not learning anything in detail. I never felt they distracted from my attention to road conditions or impacted my driving ability. However in really severe weather, I would not listen to them.

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:26 AM (o3MSL)

86 Margins blown.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at October 05, 2014 11:28 AM (zDsvJ)

87 And of course she was raped by a " campus Republican".

So I read a bit about this story at Breitbart:

http://tinyurl.com/kn6odaq

The tale is even muddled in her book, but let's go through some simple facts:

Oberlin college has a total enrollment of less than 3000 people. Moreover, this is a College ("campus"?) Republican with a mustache.

A college kid with a mustache who is a College Republican on a tiny liberal campus. If your perp list is more than 2, you aren't working hard enough. Both of those characteristics are also basic characteristics of kids who want attention.

She's refusing to press charges. But it's not hard to see why. What she describes is probably not rape at all. And even then, this is the tale that is most to her advantage. The other side of the story isn't likely to be as kind.

She claims to have been on: alcohol, cocaine and Xanax. The article doesn't say, but I'm guessing not all of those were forced on her. And what crowd is she running in at Oberlin that she's scoring blow in 2006? Or are "campus" Republicans your go-to source for cocaine at small tony liberal arts colleges?

The two then go back to her apartment, and Dunham -- in an attempt to convince herself that she'd given consent -- talks dirty to him as he forces himself on her.

Ladies, if a guy is forcing himself on you and you talk dirty to him, it's consent.

Of course we all know that feminists are just trying to criminalize men and these new definitions of rape seem to give license to claim rape if they simply regret it the next morning.

But there's something deeper here. In claiming that this is "rape", what Dunham is saying is that she "was raped" but not necessarily that the man "raped" her.

You see, she felt raped (hence the passive voice) but she refuses to consider the situation from his point of view. Even if she gave consent, she didn't feel like she gave consent.

The phrase "in an attempt to convince herself that she'd given consent" is so telling. The world is in her mind and nothing else matters. People's lives can be ruined, they can go to jail but if they don't know that she really and truly gave consent, well, they'll have to suffer the consequences.

"You should know why I'm mad at you!" just got a whole lot more serious on college campuses.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 11:28 AM (b4b5c)

88
Plus you might inadvertently summon Illuminati-controlled UFO demons.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 11:18 AM (QBm1P)
........

No, I know they're already here!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:28 AM (o3MSL)

89 46 Insomniac - I guess I'm harsh in judging people like Dunham because they are happily being used by media/entertainment to redefine normal. Maybe some day she'll wonder if there is a different approach to life and change course, or maybe she'll be successful in convincing many of the ladies of her generation that her style of dysfunction is the coolest (potentially leading them to less satisfying lives). These are the people I feel sorry for - the ones who buy that crap. I sometimes read gossip sites and the comments are so depressing - they may find Dunham's shtick a bit annoying, but they're still all "Yeah, Dunham is such an accomplished person who plays by her own rules and depicts what life is like for our generation! That's feminism!"

Posted by: Lizzy at October 05, 2014 10:26 AM (D/504)

Here's the thing for me:

Most (all?) teens have to go through a period of rebellion and the Dunham-lifestyle might appeal to-

young women who really want to rebel.

You know- girls from a traditional home really have to stray fairly far from their roots to "be a real woman(fymynyst)" like Dunham - a fat, tatted-up, drug-taking, slut

But,

if you look at her upbringing, Lean Dunham is the ultimate goody-two shoes.

She didn't stray one step from her effed up parents lifestyle, morality, or politics.

For all her...self-glorification, narcissistic self-praise,

she's more of a unadventurous, sheep-like supporter of the establishment and follower of the status quo than any of the young women she wants to influence,

I wouldn't follow an unthinking, hypocritical, rebel manqu� like that if you paid me.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 11:29 AM (KBvAm)

90 Boulder
Your link at comment 26 blew the margins.

Please use tinyurl or stick a carriage return into long strings.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at October 05, 2014 11:29 AM (zDsvJ)

91 Elinor, I have had great luck with books from Audible.com, Amazon's audio book service. It has a monthly charge which, I think is waived for a 30 day trial or something, and if you are on Amazon prime you earn 1 "credit" per month, with which you can buy a book or one of their awesome "Great Courses" college lecture series. I have listened to courses on British History, French Revolution and am now on one breaking down the Greatest 30 Orchestral Pieces, because I am a giant nerd and I roll like that.

For regular books, Niall Ferguson's Civilization, a George Washington biography, David Sedaris essays, few Neil Gaman novels, and have some Hemingway, Waugh and Fitzgerald queued up, all have been terrific for driving, many have famous actors doing the reading (Jeremy Irons doing Brideshead, for example) I also have a 45 min commute and especially in the winter, these are great, just play them through my phone.

Posted by: Goldilocks at October 05, 2014 11:31 AM (z81yd)

92 Re: Audio books -

We listened to David McCullough's 1776 one long vacation drive. It made the drive go faster for the adults at least. My kids whined about it at times but in conversations later it seemed that they did pick up on some ideas.

Michael Medved (I know, I know!) has some great history talks on CD through a company called Learning tree or something like that. I liked one about George Washington in particular.

Posted by: Jade Sea at October 05, 2014 11:31 AM (VWssQ)

93 Okay... it's time for an Open Thread.

"Make it so..."

Posted by: CPT. Charles at October 05, 2014 11:32 AM (lJaja)

94 ugh

black diamond = manque'

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 11:33 AM (KBvAm)

95 if you look at her upbringing, Lean Dunham is the ultimate goody-two shoes.

She didn't stray one step from her effed up parents lifestyle, morality, or politics.

Well said.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 11:34 AM (b4b5c)

96 Read Gaiman's Neverwhere, which is a story of an ordinary office worker in London who helps an injured woman, and is then drawn into a dangerous fantasy world below the city. The novel was based on a TV show written by Gaiman and others, sort of like HHGTG.

I liked it. The protagonist was kind of nondescript but there were some interesting characters, particularly a pair of assassins with a penchant for torture (darker and less funny than Douglas Adams).

Also read Foundation by Asimov, first in his Foundation series. The galactic empire is slowly dying and Seldon, a social scientist foresees it's collapse and has a plan to keep the galaxy from falling into a 20,000-year dark age.

Excellent story, liked the characters, look forward to reading the rest of the series.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 11:35 AM (x+P8L)

97 #87 - a campus Republican at Oberlin in the mid-oughties? Must have been some kind of student diversity requirement. (sarc)

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at October 05, 2014 11:35 AM (95iDF)

98 Michael Medved (I know, I know!) has some great history talks on CD through a company called Learning tree or something like that. I liked one about George Washington in particular.

Medved isn't 100% Tea Party Approved, but he's a really good guy and great on history. Occasionally he does 2-3 part series on his radio show about "The real story of Thanksgiving" or other topics. The American Conservative University podcast sometimes has them.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 11:36 AM (b4b5c)

99 Speaking of banning book banning, a majority of Donks want to criminalize "hate speech," "hate speech" being anything they disagree with.

http://tinyurl.com/khukj88

Posted by: The Great White Snark at October 05, 2014 11:37 AM (8MlTP)

100 Your link at comment 26 blew the margins.

Really? I've been hanging out on this thread since I first put it up, and I didn't see any blown margins.

Or maybe you just caught it quickly enough that it went underneath my radar.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 11:39 AM (yRdR4)

101 Also read Foundation by Asimov, first in his Foundation series. The galactic empire is slowly dying and Seldon, a social scientist foresees it's collapse and has a plan to keep the galaxy from falling into a 20,000-year dark age.

Excellent story, liked the characters, look forward to reading the rest of the series.

The first Foundation trilogy is excellent reading. Good sci-fi adventure, some cool ideas and a little bit of metaphor (although not direct allegory). The second undermines the first because Asimov got really liberal and really message-y.

Of course, even in the first, you have to accept the idea that social science is predictive and useful but...suspension of disbelief and all that.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 11:39 AM (b4b5c)

102 I do understand the logic behind yes means yes laws. I had an ex who was fondled on a bus and was too scared/in shock to say something. it does happen.

I'm not entirely sure how you would prosecute those cases in an actual (not campus) court of law, though.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at October 05, 2014 11:39 AM (Qyk35)

103 I'm sorry. It's so lame;" I was raped by a campus Republican." What was her wearing a tee-shirt that said that-"Young Republicans"? Either name the guy or shut up and confine your talk to your family and friends, not the general public because it simply sounds like demonization.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 05, 2014 11:39 AM (glk59)

104 Dear reading Morons, I need your help. I read too fast. Yes, I know I 'm supposed to be *writing* but I can't do that on the bus. Now that I have one of these smarty-phones the kids get all excited about, I've discovered reading on it is not half bad. However, I can't afford $10+ a pop for a book I read in less than a week. What are some good popcorn books that don't cost a fortune in the SF/Fantasy realm?

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at October 05, 2014 11:40 AM (2buaQ)

105 Posted by: The Great White Snark at October 05, 2014 11:37 AM (8MlTP)

The ability to ask questions might lead to an independent search for answers, thus it must be suppressed!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:40 AM (o3MSL)

106 I know this is supposed to be a book thread but I have an excellent "DVD based on books suggestion."

I've been watching "Must the Sun Set on the West?" by Dr. Vishal Mangalwadi. First started seeing clips in an adult Church class and decided to get the set for myself.

He is a Christian theologian from India. He describes himself as a relative outsider to western civilization who therefore spends much time thinking about how Christianity benefited western culture and how western culture benefits humanity, as well as why we seem to on the decline now.

Thoughtful and thought-provoking talks given to college audiences with titles like:

-"From Michelangelo to Freud: The Devolution of Human Dignity"

-"From the Scottish Reformation to the Iraqi War: Does Washington Know the West's Recipe for Freedom"

I'm going to watch them with my near-college-age son in hopes that these provide some inoculation to the nihilist and leftist nonsense that rules college campuses.

The book from which lectures these are drawn was "The Book that Made Your World," also by Mangalwadi.

Posted by: Jade Sea at October 05, 2014 11:41 AM (VWssQ)

107 Has the perp in the Dunham "rape" story come forward, or is he too embarrassed?

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 11:41 AM (QBm1P)

108 I haven't heard the name Harold Robbins in years (which isn't surprising, since he died back in 1997), but back in the day, he was the king of the "trashy" novelists. But he never cared about the literary critics who reviled his books, because he sat so high atop his giant pile of money that he couldn't hear them.

Reminds me of a scene from Star Trek IV, the one with the whales in San Francisco. Kirk is telling Spock about the use of obscenities and the popular literature of the time ..

Spock's response was short and hilarious...

Kirk: That's simply the way they talk here. Nobody pays any attention to you unless you swear every other word. You'll find it in all the literature of the period.

Spock: For example?

Kirk: Oh, the complete works of Jacqueline Suzanne, the novels of Harold Robbins ...

Spock: Ah...the giants

Posted by: kbdabear at October 05, 2014 11:41 AM (aTXUx)

109 I listen to audiobooks when driving to/from work, don't actually mind it when traffic is backed up now. Like to download books from Audible to my cell phone and plug it into my car for listening. Pretty cool website.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 11:42 AM (x+P8L)

110 Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at October 05, 2014 11:39 AM (Qyk35)

An armed society is a polite society!
RAH

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:43 AM (o3MSL)

111 or is he too embarrassed?

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 11:41 AM (QBm1P)

For nailing Dunham?

I wouldn't brag about that.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 05, 2014 11:44 AM (Zu3d9)

112 Okay, you know how you begged the lurkers to give their book reviews? I suppose I could jump in and participate. I read fantasy books, and I don't care who thinks I'm an idiot for saying so.

How about if I start out with a perfectly pretentious review? "Beowulf," as translated by J. R. R. Tolkien.

If you're a Tolkien appreciator, "Beowulf" should be recommended reading, because you can see from where so many of his turns of phrase and his world-building concepts derived. Big dragons! Ring-givers! Middle-Earth! Proto-European language! It's all there.

And surprisingly, it's not dull. I was forced to read it in high school and have avoided it ever since, until very recently. Digging in to it, reading "Beowulf" deeply, and using some online resources by an English professor named Ted Sherman brought the story to life for me. ( Ted Sherman's lectures here: http://tinyurl.com/l4q3x5v )

Beowulf can be found for free on Project Gutenberg and other online sources, and you can purchase Tolkien's translation on Amazon Kindle books if you, like me, love the immediate gratification of having a book dumped on your lap in three seconds.

The only thing: The opening word of the book, "Hw�t!" has been misunderstood forever as being, "Listen!" the opening word as a poet would command an audience's attention. Drat, it means nothing of the sort and is just sort of a throat-clearing. Bah, humbug. ( Article about "Hw�t": http://tinyurl.com/n93zyyd )

Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 11:44 AM (YPgXi)

113 Use of Weapons, by Ian Banks, is up for the month of October in my space opera Goodreads club. It's supposed to be one of the best novels in the Culture series.

I'm about a third of the way into it, and kind of unimpressed. Banks seems to lapse into a childish glee every time he describes anything to do with AI. Maybe it'll get better...

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at October 05, 2014 11:45 AM (Qyk35)

114 Of course, even in the first, you have to accept the
idea that social science is predictive and useful but...suspension of
disbelief and all that.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 11:39 AM (b4b5c)
You're right the idea of predicting the future, even when trying to keep it simple as Seldon does with the planet Terminus, is ridiculous but it's a fun concept.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 11:45 AM (x+P8L)

115 83 ... I have read just about every word Donald Hamilton wrote except some magazine articles. His westerns are very good, reminding me of L'Amour. And the Matt Helm series just keeps improving with each book. I used to wait eagerly for each new release. There was a rumor of a final Helm story but Hamilton died before it was finished. If you enjoy his style, keep an eye open for his books about sailing, hunting and guns.

Posted by: JTB at October 05, 2014 11:46 AM (FvdPb)

116 I admit it, I'm the one Dunham was talking about.

Posted by: TBone at October 05, 2014 11:46 AM (HstNY)

117 The tale is even muddled in her book, but let's go through some simple facts:

Thanks for that excellent summary. Robert McCain over at theothermccain.com has been complaining for a long time about these "narrative-confirming" rape stories that feminists enjoy telling. Nobody ever asks them "Well, that's what you say, ma'am, but what are the facts?" Because, strangely enough, the facts are usually AWOL.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 11:46 AM (yRdR4)

118 Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 11:44 AM (YPgXi)

I am working my way through the hard copy and it is pretty interesting. I just couldn't see this working on a kindle!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 05, 2014 11:48 AM (o3MSL)

119 she was raped by a " campus Republican".

-
I was annoyed to learn that All Sharpton's 60th birthday was one day before mine. Now I see he had rapes at his party. Nobody got raped at my party. See WZ.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at October 05, 2014 11:48 AM (8MlTP)

120 Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 11:46 AM (yRdR4)

And the result will be that all sex is rape, and real rape will be subsumed.

It is a terrible disservice to those who suffer real sexual assault.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 05, 2014 11:48 AM (Zu3d9)

121 120-Yep

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 05, 2014 11:50 AM (glk59)

122 116 I admit it, I'm the one Dunham was talking about.
Posted by: TBone at October 05, 2014 11:46 AM (HstNY)

ISWYDT

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 11:51 AM (b4b5c)

123 Hey Sabrina, If you haven't read Amy Lynn yet I'll be putting it on Kindle for .99 pre launch of the sequel Golden Angel. I think you'll like it. It's not Sci fi, I know that's your thing but who knows?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 11:52 AM (M8AJc)

124 You notice how this rapey rape thing always seems to explode right before an election?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 11:53 AM (M8AJc)

125 At beach. Mrs. Hammer has given me a copy of Gone Girl, assuring me that is good beach reading. We'll see.

This iPhone is a pain.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 05, 2014 11:54 AM (fGHfG)

126 This iPhone is a pain.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 05, 2014 11:54 AM (fGHfG)

I sat and read through the reviews for that on Goodreads. Not a lot of 5 stars but a whole bunch of creepy and freaky and everybody is a POS. So, it sounds like it could be a moron book.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 11:55 AM (M8AJc)

127 Jade Sea, thank you for the info about Dr. Mangalwadi. I'll be looking into his book and video series further.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 11:56 AM (yRdR4)

128 I thought Gone Girl was alright Hammer, although the ending was a bit weak.

Posted by: Adam at October 05, 2014 11:56 AM (HstNY)

129 And the result will be that all sex is rape, and real rape will be subsumed.

It is a terrible disservice to those who suffer real sexual assault.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 05, 2014 11:48 AM (Zu3d9)

Absolutely. They're not treating rape as a crime, but as roughly equivalent to cheating in class.

I can't wait until we start getting articles about women who can't get laid in college by the guys they want even when they throw themselves at him and he seems willing. He just won't go all the way.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 11:58 AM (b4b5c)

130 I feel sorry for young people. The morals taught to many of them are so FKD up and non-sensical. People wonder why many are on meds for depression.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:01 PM (M8AJc)

131 I feel sorry for young people. The morals taught to many of them are so FKD up and non-sensical. People wonder why many are on meds for depression.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:01 PM (M8AJc)

132 Hey, two clicks, two posts.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:01 PM (M8AJc)

133 Okay, you know how you begged the lurkers to give their book reviews? I suppose I could jump in and participate. I read fantasy books, and I don't care who thinks I'm an idiot for saying so.

There is no reason to think that. The book thread has many readers who like fantasy novels. So you're among friends.

And thank you for that review of Tolkien's 'Beowulf'.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 12:01 PM (yRdR4)

134 The lesbian feminist crowd probably thinks they're exempt because it isn't PIV. (I've noticed that a lot of leftist activism involves inventing a quasi-religious point of view in which they themselves are incapable of sin.)

Anyway, the first dual-rape accusations by lesbians are going to really fun. PIV isn't nearly as violent as DIV can be.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 05, 2014 12:02 PM (b4b5c)

135 Picked up "Hard Luck Hank" from Amazon for $0.99 this week. I think someone on this thread recommended it a few months ago. Quick amusing read. I'll probably sring for the sequel.
Anyone remember the the old card game called "Authors"?

Posted by: Tuna at October 05, 2014 12:04 PM (hpWy+)

136 If you want to laugh you ass of I recommend "Shit my Dad Says." It actually made me tear up in the end. I thought my dad was the only crazy one out there.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:05 PM (M8AJc)

137 The more I hear about Ms Dunham, the sorrier I feel for her, and I'm guessing that in that kind of household, the odds are pretty good that more than one of mommy and daddy's hep, artsy friends had access to her at a very young age, and not for any noble purpose.

And most people take Xanax for anxiety disorder, (though I'm sure some take it recreationally) so one could argue that she's fighting some demons. That's not an excuse, really; get some therapy and move on... and I don't care for her or her whininess and certainly not this false accusing, but I do get a weird feeling about her childhood.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:06 PM (BdSzK)

138 Anyway, the first dual-rape accusations by lesbians are going to really fun. PIV isn't nearly as violent as DIV can be.

Well, I suppose it depends on how big it is. If the pitcher is using the 'large, economy size', then it's probably more like attempted murder.

And this is a rather unsavory topic for the book thread. But I started it, so I denounce myself.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 12:06 PM (yRdR4)

139 and I don't care for her or her whininess and certainly not this false accusing, but I do get a weird feeling about her childhood.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:06 PM (BdSzK)

You could almost bet money on it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:07 PM (M8AJc)

140 Pre-ordered it on Kindle, Celia! Thanks for the heads-up! Really looking forward to it!

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:05 PM (M8AJc)

Howdy, stranger! Do YOU have any updates for us?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:08 PM (BdSzK)

141 I agree with you, Tammy.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 05, 2014 12:09 PM (glk59)

142 Yes, when you have a real live professional editor, you must have patience. We were shooting for November 1 but that seems unlikely. I will keep you all posted.

To keep my mind occupied I started the third Amy Lynn Book, "The Lady of Castle Dunn." Hopefully my small cadre of fans won't have to wait two years for #3.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:11 PM (M8AJc)

143 91 Elinor, I have had great luck with books from Audible.com, Amazon's audio book service.

Posted by: Goldilocks at October 05, 2014 11:31 AM (z81yd)

**************

92 Re: Audio books -

It made the drive go faster for the adults at least.

Posted by: Jade Sea at October 05, 2014 11:31 AM (VWssQ)

************

109 I listen to audiobooks when driving to/from work, don't actually mind it when traffic is backed up now. Like to download books from Audible to my cell phone and plug it into my car for listening. Pretty cool website.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 11:42 AM (x+P8L)

************

Thanks, guys! I gotta check out Audible!

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 12:11 PM (95xxa)

144 How about if I start out with a perfectly pretentious review? "Beowulf," as translated by J. R. R. Tolkien.

If you're a Tolkien appreciator, "Beowulf" should be recommended reading, because you can see from where so many of his turns of phrase and his world-building concepts derived. Big dragons! Ring-givers! Middle-Earth! Proto-European language! It's all there.

And surprisingly, it's not dull. I was forced to read it in high school and have avoided it ever since, until very recently. Digging in to it, reading "Beowulf" deeply, and using some online resources by an English professor named Ted Sherman brought the story to life for me. ( Ted Sherman's lectures here: http://tinyurl.com/l4q3x5v )

Beowulf can be found for free on Project Gutenberg and other online sources, and you can purchase Tolkien's translation on Amazon Kindle books if you, like me, love the immediate gratification of having a book dumped on your lap in three seconds.

Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 11:44 AM (YPgXi)

The quality of the translation makes a huge difference in the quality of the experience, so I would avoid the free versions, which tend to be of the less popular variety. I have not read Tolkien's translation, but he had a good ear so it's probably very good, although I understand he used a prose style. My favorite, however, is the one by Seamus Heaney.

The same principle applies to a lot of the classics that people used to complain about having to read. In most cases, they were simply forced to read an inferior translation. For the Iliad/Odyssey/Aeneid the best translation by a wide margin is Fagles/Knox. For Gilgamesh it's Mitchell. For Njal it's George Webbe Dasent, and for the Kalevala it's Kirby.

Although Heaney, Fagles and Mitchell are all recent translators, Dasent and Kirby did their work in the 19th century, so it's not just a matter of newest being best.

Posted by: CQD at October 05, 2014 12:11 PM (eCKON)

145 141
The first time I read an article about her I got that icky feeling also.

Posted by: Tuna at October 05, 2014 12:12 PM (hpWy+)

146 Anyway, the first dual-rape accusations by lesbians are going to really fun. PIV isn't nearly as violent as DIV can be.

There is already statistical evidence that lesbian couples are prone to abuse and beatings at a higher probability than heterosexuals.

But, get this, these statistics aren't being discussed very much.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 12:13 PM (yRdR4)

147 Love the old Grimm fairytales.

Tells you a lot about how hard life was for the average Franz and Elfreida in those days.

For more German childhood craziness(?)/goodness(?)

Check out:

"Stuwwelpeter" -

cautionary tales for children along the lines of Hillary Belloc's "Cautionary Tales for Children: Designed for the Admonition of Children between the ages of eight and fourteen years"

and

"The Genius of Wilhelm Busch" (used for about $19.00 at amazon)

a collection of poems and "cartoons" from WB

WB very influential- his "Max und Moritz" were the inspiration for the Katzenjammer Kids though more violent

and

"Jack Crook - Bird of Evil" sure looks like the inspiration for "Drinky Crow" to me.

Check them out.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 12:14 PM (KBvAm)

148 Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 11:44 AM (YPgXi)

Welcome! Great intro post, too!

Please stick around!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:14 PM (BdSzK)

149
But, get this, these statistics aren't being discussed very much.
Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 12:13 PM (yRdR4)

My first wife's sister got her ass kicked regularly by her gay lover. One isolated example? I dunno.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:15 PM (M8AJc)

150 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:05 PM (M8AJc)

100%

Hysterically funny!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 05, 2014 12:17 PM (Zu3d9)

151 Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 11:44 AM (YPgXi)

Where have I heard Smallish Bees before? Hot Air?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:17 PM (M8AJc)

152 There is already statistical evidence that lesbian couples are prone to abuse and beatings at a higher probability than heterosexuals.

I have stories about a lesbian couple who lived in the apartment next to mine that would add to that body of evidence, but it's probably better suited to the ONT.

I never knew whether to call the cops or not.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:19 PM (BdSzK)

153
I never knew whether to call the cops or not.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:19 PM (BdSzK)

My first wife red shirted for Michigan State in Basketball. Strong, athletic tough ass woman. She had enough, coaxed to to our house and beat the living shit out of her. My wife's sister was pissed at my wife. Wouldn't speak to her for six months. And yeah, the ass kickings continued.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:23 PM (M8AJc)

154 "1776" was great on audio. Would make a great mini series. A feast of roles for good character actors. The audio book I most enjoyed was " The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time". The reader captured the inner voice of the young boy and the personality of his frustrated but loving father perfectly. Stayed with me for a long time.

Posted by: Tuna at October 05, 2014 12:25 PM (hpWy+)

155 Well kids, football calls. Have a great day.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:26 PM (M8AJc)

156 Yeesh, if the Book Thread is gonna turn into Lesbian Central...

Fi-i-i-ine.

Hey, how about those poems by Sappo?

Some pretty hawt tortilla making action, huh?

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 12:27 PM (KBvAm)

157 Before I go. If anyone has experience making audiobooks. I would really like to talk to you. You can contact me @ AmyLynnBraxton@gmail.com

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 05, 2014 12:28 PM (M8AJc)

158 I have to say, this made me laugh:

"London's story (The Call of the Wild) of a dog who lives the life of a pampered house pet until he gets a job pulling a sled"

because I immediately pictured Buck in a job interview. "Where do you see yourself in 5 dog years? We're looking for someone with a real take charge, lead dog personality. "

Actually, I'm surprised the Nazis burned London's work. "The Call of the Wild"reflects London's belief in social Darwinism and his racial views were pretty close to the Nazis (Anglo Saxon and Nordic peoples superior, Jews and other races, inferior). As as far as his socialism goes - well, why would the National Socialists have a gripe with that?

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 12:28 PM (+XMAD)

159 What are some good popcorn books that don't cost a fortune in the SF/Fantasy realm?

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at October 05, 2014 11:40 AM (2buaQ)
Doesn't really qualify as popcorn but really enjoyed the Farseer trilogy by Robin Hobb, she's a terrific storyteller and her books are fairly long (600-800 pages) for about $6 each on Kindle.Reading through some of HG Wells recently and enjoying them, those are free to very cheap on ebook.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 12:29 PM (x+P8L)

160 ugh

Sappo = Sappho

Thanks, autocorrect!

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 12:31 PM (KBvAm)

161 Sampo!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at October 05, 2014 12:32 PM (QBm1P)

162 Sambo!

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 12:33 PM (yRdR4)

163 162
Racist!

Posted by: Tuna at October 05, 2014 12:35 PM (hpWy+)

164 I know!

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 12:37 PM (yRdR4)

165 I adore the Book Thread, but I gotta say that I am more often than not too intimidated to yak about what I've been reading, because it's so... not sophisticated.

It's also kind of interesting to me that it leans sausage, since we are told by our intellectual better that boys and men don't read as much as women. (And yes, I do understand that the Book Thread will naturally draw Men What Read Teh Books)

And I just had 6 more paragraphs typed about about how fascinatingly specific I find all y'alls literary taste to be ( talking 'bout the menfolk here), but it was rambly and muddled and I couldn't get across what I meant,

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:42 PM (BdSzK)

166 "147 Love the old Grimm fairytales.

Tells you a lot about how hard life was for the average Franz and Elfreida in those days."

Yeah. I think it was Canadian author Robertson Davies who said Grimm's fairy tales meted out very harsh justice - their own greed is what drives Cinderella's sisters to cut off parts of their feet. They're willing to do anything to get their feet in those slippers so they can marry the prince and living in the days before plastic surgery aided golddiggers, well, they had to do it themselves.

Davies also said most authors should be read and not seen. Davies, who started out as an actor in London in the '30's, could have played the part of Wise Old Sage in any fantasy or sci-fi movie.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 12:42 PM (+XMAD)

167 What are some good popcorn books that don't cost a fortune in the SF/Fantasy realm?

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at October 05, 2014 11:40 AM (2buaQ)

If you're still around,

I really enjoyed the Milkweed Trilogy by Ian Tregillis

The first novel "Bitter Seeds" is about $6-7. The other two about $8.

The story is set in an alternate WWII where the Germans have developed surgically/electronically enhanced psychic supermen and superwomen, and

the English are fighting back with wizards who use blood-magic involving dangerous Lovecraftian-type horrors.

Sounds stupid, right?

Nope. Very well written. Great characters. Tough minded plotting.

Try the first, then go on to the others if it's your kind of thing.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 12:45 PM (KBvAm)

168 Elinor, if you like mysteries, a good light series on audiobook is the Cat Who... books by Lillian Jackson Braun, read by George Guidall. There are some good Agatha Christie audiobooks, too, read by actors from my favorite adaptations--Hugh Fraser (Hastings), Joan Hickson (Miss Marple), and James Warwick (Tommy Beresford) are ones I know.
If you want something suited to the season, though, Focus on the Family recently (as in a couple of years ago) released a version of The Screwtape Letters read by Andy Serkis. I haven't had a chance to listen to the whole thing, but I have heard a couple of previews, and they were BRILLIANT.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at October 05, 2014 12:46 PM (iuQS7)

169 I took a class on Old English centered on Beowulf. My translation wasn't so hot but I learned to pronounce the lines. (Knowledge long gone, alas, but this was 40 years ago.) There was real power in the sounds and rhythms, beyond the content. If you can find a recording of the poem, it will give an idea of how Tolkien was influenced in his translations and original poetry.

Posted by: JTB at October 05, 2014 12:46 PM (FvdPb)

170 Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 12:42 PM (+XMAD)

Ok, I think I'm in love with you.

Robertson Davies is one of my faves.

Pisses me off that death took him away before he could finish "The Toronto Trilogy".

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 12:48 PM (KBvAm)

171 Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 12:48 PM (KBvAm)

Yep. One day in the '80's I was browsing around in a bookstore and picked up "The Deptford Trilogy" on a whim, without knowing anything about Davies. 50 or so pages into "Fifth Business" and I was seriously hooked. I've read everything else he wrote, but IMO, nothing approaches "The Deptford Trilogy."

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 12:54 PM (+XMAD)

172 I adore the Book Thread, but I gotta say that I am
more often than not too intimidated to yak about what I've been reading,
because it's so... not sophisticated.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 12:42 PM (BdSzK)

Would be interesting to have someone of the feminine gender occasionally write up a book thread, maybe then we'd have more diverse contributions.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 12:54 PM (x+P8L)

173 Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at October 05, 2014 12:46 PM (iuQS7)

************

Thanks for the recommendations!

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 12:55 PM (95xxa)

174 Tolkien's Beowulf is on my to-read list, and Heaney's is on my to-reread list. And I'll have to get to them sooner than later if a course in which I'll be teaching the poem actually makes.
*melodramatic sigh, hand to forehead* Such a terrible burden, reading classic literature....

Tangent: I love Old English, but I used to crack up my professor when I had to read aloud in class, because apparently I read it with a German accent.

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at October 05, 2014 12:57 PM (iuQS7)

175 I'm definitely interested in the "Ragtime Romance" book. I'm fairly knowledgeable about the history of baseball, but not the pre-Babe Ruth, "dead ball" era, so I never heard of Rube Marquad or his girlfriend.

Like his career, Babe Ruth's sex life was pretty astonishing. The guy was a complete innocent when he turned pro - hence the nickname "Babe." Once he discovered sex, though, whoa, when a good Catholic boy goes bad,...,. One night he managed to lay every girl in a whorehouse. He wasn't at all choosy, anything in a skirt would do.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 01:09 PM (+XMAD)

176 IMO, nothing approaches "The Deptford Trilogy."

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 12:54 PM (+XMAD)

Agreed.

Still, he was always a good or great read.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 01:18 PM (KBvAm)

177 Would be interesting to have someone of the feminine gender occasionally write up a book thread, maybe then we'd have more diverse contributions.
Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 12:54 PM (x+P8L)

Oh I have no complaint whatsoever about the content of the posts, I just meant that it seems as though more 'ons than 'ettes comment.

I don't think the content is driving the commenting, either....I think maybe it's a bit of everything...the 'ettes may not be around as much on the weekend (I don't have kids, so I am not at Little League practice, dance recitals, etc)

What's ironic is that my literary tastes tend to skew masculine and I hate sappy romance type stuff that most women seem to lie...unless it's really witty and fun, like Georgette Heyer!

Now I feel like I was slamming the Book Thread and that is so NOT what I meant!

I enjoy everything Oregon posts, I just mainly meant that I have low taste!!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 01:22 PM (BdSzK)

178 177
I love military science fiction and science fiction in general. Always have, even when I was a little girl. I devoured everything my little city library had. So much for gender based reading, huh?

Posted by: Tuna at October 05, 2014 01:28 PM (hpWy+)

179 Miss Tammy, as a fellow 'ette whose literary tastes skew masculine and who hates sappy romance, I agree!

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at October 05, 2014 01:31 PM (iuQS7)

180 104
What are some good popcorn
books that don't cost a fortune in the SF/Fantasy realm?

Don't forget to poke around on Project Gutenberg and the Australian variant. Quite a bit of stuff like Edgar Rice Burroughs and E. E. "Doc" Smith.

Posted by: Anachronda at October 05, 2014 01:31 PM (o78gS)

181 Sabrina, in addition to your novels and Sarah Hoyt

David Weber,
Jeff Wheeler
Jeffrey Poole Bakkian chronicles trilogy
Nicholas Taylor (I've only read Legon Awakening)
the Lodestone books by Mark Whiteway

I also like historical fiction and one that is borderline fantasy is JK Swifts Altdorf and Morgarten.

Posted by: PaleRider at October 05, 2014 01:33 PM (Zo60C)

182 My favorite Davies' novel is Murther & Walking Spirits. How can you not love a novel whose main character is killed off in the first few pages and whose ghost haunts the rest of the book? I know this is considered one of Davies' middling books, but it moves me every time I read it. I love the stories of Connor's ancestors and his realization that he is connected to them and that they were real people with their own lives filled with nobility, selfishness, love, pettiness, etc. I have such an appreciation for my own ancestors after I read this book and the recognition that I am just a link in a long chain of amazing and wondrous people.

Posted by: biancaneve at October 05, 2014 01:36 PM (6Turu)

183 This week it's In The Land of Time by Lord Dunsany. It's a fantasy collection of short works from across his career, edited by S. T. Joshi and newly out from Penguin classics. Dunsany is a huge influence on modern fantasy (Tolkien, Lovecraft), which is easy to tell from page one forward. He's better in small doses, I think.

Posted by: Buck Rampage at October 05, 2014 01:37 PM (QQ9JY)

184 I finished The Lost World of James Smithson this week. I never was really clear on where James Smithson got his money - some he inherited from his mother and I think he made a lot of shrewd investments. The fact that he left all his money to the United States government is still such a strange bequest, and it's sad to say, but we should all be grateful that Smithson's nephew died before he did, otherwise the nephew would have inherited. I don't think this book would be to everyone's tastes, but it is an amazing work of scholarship. Almost all of Smithson's personal papers were lost in a fire at the Smithsonian in 1865, so the author had to piece together Smithson's biography from his bank records and mentions in other people's letters and journals.

I also read Fever by Mary Beth Keane, a novelization of Typhoid Mary. A good book, but not enough blood and guts for my taste. I have an obsession with books about plagues and pandemics and was expecting more death and destruction and general panic. Still, a good book and very relevant with the Ebola and enterovirus scares.

Posted by: biancaneve at October 05, 2014 01:46 PM (6Turu)

185 Uh-oh - my bad.

Posted by: biancaneve at October 05, 2014 01:46 PM (6Turu)

186 182 My favorite Davies' novel is Murther & Walking Spirits. How can you not love a novel whose main character is killed off in the first few pages and whose ghost haunts the rest of the book? I know this is considered one of Davies' middling books, but it moves me every time I read it. I love the stories of Connor's ancestors and his realization that he is connected to them and that they were real people with their own lives filled with nobility, selfishness, love, pettiness, etc. I have such an appreciation for my own ancestors after I read this book and the recognition that I am just a link in a long chain of amazing and wondrous people.

Posted by: biancaneve at October 05, 2014 01:36 PM (6Turu)

Yeah, I love M&WS as well.

And here I'll sound like an a-hole, but Davies was such a wise writer, his books, even the lesser were always a delight to read.

I guess I'm about due for another revisit.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 05, 2014 01:47 PM (KBvAm)

187 Pretty sure someone here recommended Davies' The Cornish Trilogy, which got me started on his works. I really enjoyed it and the Deptford Trilogy.

Murther & Walking Spirits will be here in a week or so, thank you!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 01:59 PM (BdSzK)

188 Davies is one of the few writers who deserve the adjective 'wise'. He comes across as wise, humorous, old-school - everybody's favorite professor or uncle.

One of the things I like about Davies is that he did not believe in all the writing programs that universities have created. He believed that if you want to be a writer, you should first go out and get a real job and meet real people and figure out what you want to say. I'm sure in many ways he was a typical liberal arts lefty when it comes to politics, but I suspect he would have little patience for today's universities and colleges.

Posted by: biancaneve at October 05, 2014 02:03 PM (6Turu)

189 Ms Chase or any others who are looking for less expensive reading:

I'm pretty sure I saw it on the bookthread here first but go to Bookbub.com, do the free registration, select your areas of interest, and then get a daily e-mail of book ideas ranging from free to 2.99. I've picked up quite a few from there. Alternatively, for reading on a Kindle or a smart-phone with the Kindle app, go to Amazon and sign up for Kindle Unlimited for 9.99 a month and pretty much all you can read. A book a week would bring the cost down to 2.50.

And to whoever recommended the liturgical mysteries, thank you. I'm on the third one and still find myself laughing out loud, which gets me funny looks when I sneak a read at work.

Posted by: J E Albrecht at October 05, 2014 02:29 PM (ldCZ7)

190 Posted by: biancaneve at October 05, 2014 02:03 PM (6Turu)

His political stance was confusing, since he voted for Trudeau, but said many unPC things that contradicted everything the left stands for. I read some interviews he gave - he was anti-abortion, for capital punishment (although he wanted it to be carried out humanely),disdained PC, and was very critical of left-wing activists and radical feminists. He couldn't stand hippies. But he also admitted that he was a muddled political thinker - which is true of most novelists. However, most of them don't realize it.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 02:36 PM (+XMAD)

191 Davies also didn't think very much of the gay rights movement or militant atheists. He said he found it tiresome to always have to defend his belief in God.

Speaking of militant atheists, if you go to TNR to read the review of Crazy Lena's tripe, you'll find another review there which is even better and not something you would expect to read in TNR. John Gray really rips on Richard Dawkins. I mentioned it in last night's ONT, it's a thing of beauty and has driven Dawkins disciples nuts. The comments are something - the Dawkins fanboys all repeat the usual cliches about sky-gods and those dangerous fundies who think the earth was created in 6 days. In effect, they demonstrate exactly what Gray (an atheist himself) accuses Dawkins of doing: of conflating Young Earth creationists with all Christians.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at October 05, 2014 02:49 PM (+XMAD)

192 Robertson Davies is one of those authors I want to try, but none of his books are on eBook. Wish his family would get cracking.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 02:59 PM (x+P8L)

193 waelse1, I am slowly coming around to loving the immediate gratification of ebooks.

I am going to have to wait (gasp! horror!) for my hardcover copy of the one I just bought, and I fully admit to feeling impatient about it!

I will very much enjoy seeing it gracing my bookcase shelves, though.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 03:04 PM (BdSzK)

194 Tammy-al-Thor - 'hard cover'? Doesn't ring a bell.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 03:42 PM (x+P8L)

195 Im late but to anyone who is looking for ebooks/audio books, might want to check out your library, mine has "overdrive" that you can get free loans. Still hasn't stopped me from amazon tho lol!

Posted by: FCF at October 05, 2014 04:02 PM (kejii)

196 I'm pretty sure I saw it on the bookthread here first but go to Bookbub.com, do the free registration, select your areas of interest, and then get a daily e-mail of book ideas ranging from free to 2.99

Yup, I'll take credit for introducing all of you book thread 'rons and 'ettes to Bookbub.

I discovered it quite by accident one Saturday when I was poking around teh interwebs looking for book thread material. It's really been a great source for cheap (and legal!) eBooks.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 05, 2014 04:43 PM (yRdR4)

197 195 Im late but to anyone who is looking for ebooks/audio books, might want to check out your library, mine has "overdrive" that you can get free loans. Still hasn't stopped me from amazon tho lol!

Posted by: FCF at October 05, 2014 04:02 PM (kejii)

************

Just checked online, and my library has "Overdrive". I don't even know if I still have a library card, it's been that long since I borrowed something! (I denounce myself)

I may have to stop by this week and see what's up.

Posted by: Elinor, who usually looks lurkily at October 05, 2014 04:46 PM (95xxa)

198 Tammy-al-Thor - 'hard cover'? Doesn't ring a bell.
Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 03:42 PM (x+P8L)

waelse1, I meant my hardcover version of the Davies book mentioned upthread...Murther & Walking Spirits.

Sorry about the confusion!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 06:41 PM (BdSzK)

199 I just finished volume 1 of the Outlander and loved it. I've always been drawn to time-travel fiction. Since my hubby died, this is the first book that's engaged me enough for my attention to stay fastened to it instead of wandering to Sadville. That's a big recommendation.

Haven't watched it on TV, as I prefer to read books and visualize on my own.

Posted by: Miley's Tongue at October 05, 2014 06:50 PM (R+h7Q)

200 I already have Vols 23 in my possession.

Posted by: Miley's Tongue at October 05, 2014 06:52 PM (R+h7Q)

201 (2 AND 3 I meant)

Posted by: Miley's Tongue at October 05, 2014 06:52 PM (R+h7Q)

202 Hrothgar: I love to read anything on my Kindle reader, which I use on my Mac. That way I can blow up the text to suit the acuity of my eyes on any given day.

CQD: Yes, Tolkien uses a prose style, which does miss some of the power of the alliterations. But his ear is so good, the story flows beautifully.

Tammy Al-Thor and OregonMuse: Thank you for your welcome. I've been reading here forever and only rarely pop my head up out of my hidey-hole.

Old Sailor's Poet: Yep, I've commented here, there, and yonder under the "Smallish Bees" moniker. It comes from Seuss's "The Lorax"

SLUPP
Down slupps the Whisper-ma-Phone to your ear
and the old Once-ler's whispers are not very clear,
since they have to come down
through a snergelly hose,
and he sounds
as if he had
smallish bees up his nose.

Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 07:58 PM (VHiG6)

203 Re: Robertson Davies

Love, love, love this author.

I've had to go on a Davies fast, though, for a while. My internal narrator started critiquing my every move as though I were one of the more odious characters in a Davies novel. Having the humorous and merciless Davies as the voiceover of your own life is something of a mental-health challenge.

Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 08:01 PM (VHiG6)

204
Sorry about the confusion!
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 06:41 PM (BdSzK)

My fault, should have added /jk. I've stopped reading what have traditionally been called 'books'.

Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 08:21 PM (2fyor)

205 Posted by: Miley's Tongue at October 05, 2014 06:50 PM (R+h7Q)

There is a fairly good sized time-travel romance genre out there these days...Book Bub is definitely your friend!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 08:58 PM (BdSzK)

206 My fault, should have added /jk. I've stopped reading what have traditionally been called 'books'.
Posted by: waelse1 at October 05, 2014 08:21 PM (2fyor)

Nope, certainly not your fault that I'm a dolt, incapable of seeing the witticism in front of me!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 08:59 PM (BdSzK)

207 Posted by: Smallish Bees at October 05, 2014 08:01 PM (VHiG6)

LOL, I can see where that could get.... exhausting.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 09:01 PM (BdSzK)

208 @ 104

Are you already familiar with the Baen Free Library? If not, that will keep you busy for a little while.

Posted by: BornLib at October 05, 2014 09:41 PM (zpNwC)

209 I enjoy everything Oregon posts, I just mainly meant that I have low taste!! Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 05, 2014 01:22 PM (BdSzK)

**********************************

I don't believe in the concept of 'low taste.' There is only 'individual taste.' Your taste is your taste, not someone else's, and it needs only to please you. Besides, if you're reading, you're streets ahead of the overwhelming majority of people - including a fair number of college grads.

Posted by: I lurk, therefore I amn't at October 05, 2014 10:55 PM (cr0Pu)

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