VA Head Shinseki: I Accept Full Responsibility for the Horrors My Agency Inflicted on Veterans, and I'm "Mad as Hell," But Why No, I Won't Be Resigning

"I take full responsibility" stopped meaning "I take full responsibility" around 15 years ago. Now it only means "I'm willing to say the words I take full responsibility."

Watch the video to see what "mad as hell" sounds like. What "mad as hell" now sounds like, in 2014, is a bloodless bureaucratic robot reciting scripted talking points.

Last month, CNN revealed that at least 40 veterans died waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, according to sources inside the hospital and a doctor who worked there. Many were placed on a secret waiting list, the sources said.
Since November, CNN has uncovered delays in care at VA facilities across the country where numerous VA staffers have stepped forward to allege dangerously long wait times and efforts by agency officials to cover them up.
...
"Any allegation, any adverse incident like this makes me mad as hell," he [droned without feeling or meaning], urging the legislators to wait for the investigation's finding before trying to resolve a complex set of problems.

The agency was misreporting the wait-times for procedures -- to hide how very, very long some vets waited for treatment.

Some waited until they simply died.

But the man who is "mad as hell" says let's not read too much into that.

Shinseki labeled possible links between long waits and veteran deaths as allegations, and acting inspector general Richard Griffin said nothing his investigation has found so far proves a causal relationship.
"It's one thing to be on a waiting list, and it's another thing to conclude that as a result of being on the waiting list, that's the cause death," he said.
His assistant, Dr. John Daigh, said frequent delays occurred, as well as deficient quality standards that caused patient harm in some cases.
"But to draw the conclusion between patient harm and death has so far been a tenuous connection," Daigh told the committee.

I think they're getting their 2018 Obamacare scripts ready.

The agency has been covering up its not-yet-proven-to-be-deadly long waits for treatment for six years.

Internal memos show the VA has been playing whack a mole for at least six years with employees who use dozens of different scheduling tricks to hide substantial delays in health care for America’s veterans. And whenever the VA tries to stop its staffers from "gaming the system," the staffers come up with new techniques.
Whistleblowers around the country are now accusing the VA of hiding a backlog in patient care with bookkeeping tricks, and a former doctor at a VA facility in Arizona says the delays may have contributed to the deaths of 40 patients.
...
The techniques included pretending that appointments cancelled by the clinic were cancelled by the patient, and refusing to schedule appointments for patients when there was no appointment available within 30 days. Patients were told to wait a month and then call back.

Well that's just special.

Interview: Jake Tapper asks the WH Chief of Staff what can be done about the VA's (and government's generally, I'd argue) "culture of no accountability."

No one's more outraged about this than Obama, the President vowed in a scripted attempt to pretend some level of emotional investment.

Oh, scratch that, this just in: Obama says this is a "phony scandal."

Posted by: Ace at 06:04 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 firsty?

Posted by: OK, thanks, bye at May 15, 2014 06:05 PM (MuMmf)

2 We're rather annoyed, ourselves.

Posted by: Vets at May 15, 2014 06:05 PM (Ua6T/)

3 2nd?

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 15, 2014 06:05 PM (0FSuD)

4 I am a little confused about this VA shit. I thought retirees all got Tri Care and could go to any hospital they wanted. Why do some have to only go to a VA hospital?

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 15, 2014 06:07 PM (0FSuD)

5 >>> "I take full responsibility" stopped meaning "I take full responsibility" around 15 years ago. Now it only means "I'm willing to say the words I take full responsibility."

The hell, you say!

Posted by: Hillary! at May 15, 2014 06:07 PM (Ua6T/)

6 He didn't learn a damn thing in the Army.

Posted by: Erowmero at May 15, 2014 06:07 PM (go5uR)

7 This is why the country needs a single-payer health care system.

Posted by: Typical Lefty at May 15, 2014 06:07 PM (j1NwQ)

8 We are here from the government and we are here to do whatever the fuck we please. Now go and die little serf

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at May 15, 2014 06:09 PM (HVff2)

9 Atrocious treatment compounded by deliberate lies tells me they knew this was going on and did nothing about it.

When you have ingrained cultural issues that result from poor leadership, especially in the military, it is time to resign your command. Shinseki is only protecting his own ass right now and needs to go.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 15, 2014 06:09 PM (Yly9A)

10 I am a little confused about this VA shit. I thought retirees all got Tri Care and could go to any hospital they wanted. Why do some have to only go to a VA hospital?
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 15, 2014 06:07 PM (0FSuD)

You said it. Retirees get TRICARE.

You have to have 20 years of service+ to be considered a "retiree"

"Retire" short of 20 years, you get the VA

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 06:09 PM (yz6yg)

11 I heard a bit of coverage on the radio last night. One of the guys pissed at this was talking about how some doctor set the policy for colorectal cancer treatment could not be started until 3 consecutive blood screenings confirm it. Which means that at that point you are stage four and going to die. It's a policy that guarantees a death sentence.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 15, 2014 06:10 PM (I7ssN)

12 Hey, most of those guys were really old and broken down anyway. In the brave new world of ObamaCare get used to this stuff, because we aren't going to permit hospitals to provide care to old broken down men. You think I'm kidding?

Posted by: Emperor Barack I at May 15, 2014 06:10 PM (F58x4)

13 I am a little confused about this VA shit. I thought
retirees all got Tri Care and could go to any hospital they wanted. Why
do some have to only go to a VA hospital?

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 15, 2014 06:07 PM (0FSuD)

Retirees due to time in service (i.e. more than 20 years) get TriCare. Non-retired veterans only get VA medical, and that's only if they are eligible.

Posted by: Country Singer at May 15, 2014 06:10 PM (vUJC4)

14 ""But to draw the conclusion between patient harm and death has so far been a tenuous connection," Daigh told the committee."

Try that line with the climate change crowd and see how far you get.

Posted by: Decaf at May 15, 2014 06:11 PM (Rzj/Z)

15 Brace yourselves, U.S. Morons:With Zerocare are you can expect the same level of health care even if you're not vet! Yippee!

Posted by: logprof at May 15, 2014 06:11 PM (aeXtp)

16 >>>The agency has been covering up its not-yet-proven-to-be-deadly long waits for treatment for six years.<<<

Definitely Bush's fault!!!

Posted by: Hussein Clown Posse at May 15, 2014 06:11 PM (OSKMn)

17 Hillary said the same thing about Benghazi.

And then, she said "What difference does it make".

Posted by: wheatie at May 15, 2014 06:12 PM (O5BcQ)

18 Name one liberal hack douchebag who has had the balls to resign.

(sits back and folds hands)

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:12 PM (x3YFz)

19 But I'd also say that there is a provision for these vets that if the wait time is excessive, then they are given a voucher for private health care for that appointment/procedure. Not sure if it can be completely private, or has to route through TRICARE. Need to check on that.

So, why didn't the vets with long wait times get the voucher?

Because it costs more.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 06:12 PM (yz6yg)

20 Is anyone responsible for anything in this Administration?When Bush was President the smallest thing in his administration was blamed on him....

In Obama's World the buck never ever stops there....

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at May 15, 2014 06:13 PM (9+ccr)

21 Shinseki is a turd,has always been a turd.

Posted by: steevy at May 15, 2014 06:13 PM (zqvg6)

22 Veterans should flood local hospitals and just tell the staff they are in Amerika illegally. Best free medical care available. Problem solved.

Posted by: Ammo Dump at May 15, 2014 06:13 PM (GgPam)

23 When you have ingrained cultural issues that result
from poor leadership, especially in the military, it is time to resign
your command. Shinseki is only protecting his own ass right now and
needs to go.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 15, 2014 06:09 PM

Same thing applies to that treasonous shitweasel in the White House.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 15, 2014 06:14 PM (dDzOj)

24 The techniques included pretending that appointments cancelled by the clinic were cancelled by the patient
---

Sounds like they hired the "customer service" people from the airlines.

Posted by: Y-not at May 15, 2014 06:14 PM (zDsvJ)

25 Has anyone been fired?

Has anyone been demoted?

Has anyone been reassigned?

Has anyone received a written reprimand in their personnel file?

Has anyone received an unsatisfactory efficiency report?

Has there been any disciplinary action taken or is the standard excuse always been 'congress didn't appropriate enough money'?

Posted by: Reginald Smythe-Beufort at May 15, 2014 06:14 PM (c5TFr)

26 Won't someone rid me of these troublesome veterans?

Posted by: Barry Insane Obamao at May 15, 2014 06:15 PM (GgPam)

27
"I take full responsibility" has replaced "Mistakes were made."

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 15, 2014 06:15 PM (ZqKAA)

28 All I can say is that it is a good thing the VA isn't run by the government, because if it was cynical people would probably use it as a metaphor for how lousy government run healthcare might eventually become.

Dodged a big one there.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at May 15, 2014 06:15 PM (BZAd3)

29 If there are any liberals reading the blog:

e-4

Why? because I want to see you resign. Not checkmate. I won't checkmate you. I'll take every piece on the board and leave you 1 move just to rub your fucking nose in it until you resign.

e-4.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:16 PM (x3YFz)

30 Veterans should flood local hospitals and just tell the staff they are in Amerika illegally.

When illegals flood American hospital emergency rooms, depriving the deserved from treatment, it's an act of love.

Posted by: Jebs Bush at May 15, 2014 06:16 PM (j1NwQ)

31 Wonder what Robert Heinlein would say.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 15, 2014 06:17 PM (qMd2B)

32 Has there been any disciplinary action taken or is the standard excuse always been 'congress didn't appropriate enough money'?

Posted by: Reginald Smythe-Beufort at May 15, 2014 06:14 PM

That's the standard answer for everything in D.C., with the possible exception of Moooo-chelle's Vacation Fund.

Some underling might have to go, but the Top. Men. are inviolate.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 15, 2014 06:17 PM (dDzOj)

33 What I want to see is South-Korean-Vice-Principal-after-a-ferry-accident level acceptance of responsibility.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at May 15, 2014 06:17 PM (uhMMS)

34 18 Name one liberal hack douchebag who has had the balls to resign.

David Petraeus?

Posted by: wheatie at May 15, 2014 06:17 PM (O5BcQ)

35 "In order to keep our waiting lines less than 10 people long, no more than 10 people will be allowed to get in line."
- The Management

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:18 PM (MKpBT)

36 Don't worry everyone on the waiting list gets a copy of "Your Life, Your Choices" to keep them occupied.

Posted by: Hussein Clown Posse at May 15, 2014 06:18 PM (OSKMn)

37 OK, so the VA hospitals are welfare for vets that didn't retire and don't have any other insurance?

What did they do after they left the service? Any of them WORK?

Who qualifies for VA hospitals?

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 15, 2014 06:18 PM (0FSuD)

38 The VA used to mail my father's vials of insulin to him. MAIL. In plain manila envelopes. He lived in Las Vegas.

So the insulin would get to the mailbox and bake in the 100+ degree weather for awhile. Then Pa would get the mail and assiduously refrigerate the insulin (heat degrades it). HA! When my sister called to complain, the VA told her: That's the best we can do.

Posted by: kathysaysso at May 15, 2014 06:19 PM (jPT60)

39 Name one liberal hack douchebag who has had the balls to resign.

David Petraeus?

Posted by: wheatie at May 15, 2014 06:17 PM (O5BcQ)

Hah! Got me on that one. Some old school AF folks might remember McPeak.

That fucker.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:19 PM (x3YFz)

40 I'm really not comfortable weighing in on this whole VA kerfuffle until someone can VOXplain it to me.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at May 15, 2014 06:20 PM (uhMMS)

41 Seriously you guys, why worry about it? They are only veterans, it's not like they are members of the elite or even cool kids like I am. Hey, who's up for some yachting? Theresa, where's the ketchup?

Posted by: johnny "Global Warming" kerry at May 15, 2014 06:20 PM (GgPam)

42 Forget it, Jake, it's the VA.

My favorite VA story to date is the one about how they managed to take a bunch of vets newly returned from the sandbox, and infect them with AIDS and Hepatitis C, via "routine" colonoscopies.

Wherein the VA could not be bothered to clean and resterilize the colonoscopy probe in between patients.

I swear, my ass cheeks clench solidly shut just at the thought.

Soon, thanks to Obamacare, even people who are not veterans will enjoy the same medical due diligence as the VA displayed here.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 06:20 PM (noWW6)

43 in the video I added, Tapper confronts the WH Chief of Staff with an incident from 2011 in which there was an outbreak of Legionaire's disease at a VA hospital (I assume due to unsanitary conditions/negligent upkeep) and the administrator got the maximum performance bonus and perfect performance rating that year.

Posted by: ace at May 15, 2014 06:20 PM (/FnUH)

44 OK, so the VA hospitals are welfare for vets that didn't retire and don't have any other insurance?

What did they do after they left the service? Any of them WORK?

Who qualifies for VA hospitals?
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 15, 2014 06:18 PM (0FSuD)

Mostly poor vets. There is a priority ranking based on income.

A guy like with, with an actual job can expect to be seen sometime in Fiscal 2029.

But....

I do not begrudge those vets this care. They wore a uniform. That means they did more for their country than 99% of there peers.

Talk about "one percent." Indeed.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 06:20 PM (yz6yg)

45 Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did.

Posted by: Eric Stratton, rush chairman at May 15, 2014 06:21 PM (77WUn)

46 I need to think about this, because I kind of like the "I take full responsibility but will not resign" position better than the "I take full responsibility and will not resign" position because the latter lets the real person responsible off too easy. The latter offers clarity. It means the President, who is the executive branch, doesn't care. Do we want resignations or do we want firings? Do we want fake accountability or real accountability?

Posted by: SH at May 15, 2014 06:21 PM (gmeXX)

47 Gee, and the left was holding up the VA as a good example of successful government health care. Oh well!

Posted by: Lady Billingsgate at May 15, 2014 06:21 PM (me+ef)

48 So where does Chelsea Mannings' sex change operation fit in on this schedule? Is that a higher priority than seeing/treating our vets?

I thought I heard Obama say fixing this was a top US priority. No - wait - it's "bringing back our (Nigerian) girls" that is now a top priority.
Naturally.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 15, 2014 06:22 PM (ZUwUn)

49 Active Duty and 20+ year retirees get Tricare, right?

So what's the gate for VA hospitals? Honorable discharge with fewer than 20 years in a military service?

Posted by: bonhomme at May 15, 2014 06:22 PM (l5wxK)

50 Seriously you guys, why worry about it? They are only veterans, it's not like they are members of the elite or even cool kids like I am. Hey, who's up for some yachting? Theresa, where's the ketchup?

Posted by: johnny "Global Warming" kerry at May 15, 2014 06:20 PM (GgPam)

Yeah, pissing off a few million americans trained in asymmetric warfare with 2-6 deployments under their belt... no worries.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:22 PM (x3YFz)

51 I need to think about this, because I kind of like the "I take full responsibility but will not resign" position better than the "I take full responsibility and will not resign" position because the latter lets the real person responsible off too easy. The latter offers clarity. It means the President, who is the executive branch, doesn't care. Do we want resignations or do we want firings? Do we want fake accountability or real accountability?

----

Crap I totally screwed that up. Here is what I meant to say:

I need to think about this, because I kind of like the "I take full responsibility but will not resign" position better than the "I take full responsibility and will resign" position because the latter lets the real person responsible off too easy. The latter offers clarity. It means the President, who is the executive branch, doesn't care. Do we want resignations or do we want firings? Do we want fake accountability or real accountability?

Had to remove the not from my second set of quotations. I don't know how to do strikethroughs like others.

Posted by: SH at May 15, 2014 06:22 PM (gmeXX)

52 Afternoon my lovelies. Not that anyone noticed, but work had its boot on my face over crushing deadlines; ball is out of my court now so the boot has abated...for now.

And I come back to see this madness. Forget the old and tired teacher bake sales vs nuclear bombs trope; that is old and busted. The real new crime of hotness is that the toads in Washington get to sit back in their comfy armchairs with their cushyy health care plans, while our troops sacrifice their all and get crappy health care and get kicked down the road until they die. FLAMES, on the side of my face...

Posted by: LizLem at May 15, 2014 06:23 PM (yRwC8)

53 "It's one thing to be on a waiting list, and it's another thing to conclude that as a result of being on the waiting list, that's the cause death," he said.

The man died from hemorrhage. Sure, he was bleeding for several days until a doctor could get to him; but it wasn't the delay that killed him. It was the hemorrhaging. So, technically, we're right. And we'll always be able to claim that.

Posted by: Dr. Shinseki at May 15, 2014 06:23 PM (1CroS)

54 So what's the gate for VA hospitals? Honorable discharge with fewer than 20 years in a military service?

Posted by: bonhomme at May 15, 2014 06:22 PM (l5wxK)

There is a formula that's a touch more complex, but that's a pretty good layman's definition...yes.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 06:24 PM (yz6yg)

55 So
Jamie Gorelick with a beret.

Posted by: DaveA at May 15, 2014 06:24 PM (DL2i+)

56 Forget my comments at 46 and 51. I can't type today. I need a proofer.

Posted by: SH at May 15, 2014 06:24 PM (gmeXX)

57 Active Duty and 20+ year retirees get Tricare, right?

So what's the gate for VA hospitals? Honorable discharge with fewer than 20 years in a military service?

Posted by: bonhomme at May 15, 2014 06:22 PM (l5wxK)

tricare is actually an end around obamacare for now.

We're retired, and we have the lowest tricare option because paying cash is cheaper. for now.

And I hate military dentists.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:24 PM (x3YFz)

58 Six years?

Isn't that around the time of the last VA scandal?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 15, 2014 06:25 PM (oFCZn)

59 >>>The man died from hemorrhage. Sure, he was bleeding
for several days until a doctor could get to him; but it wasn't the
delay that killed him. It was the hemorrhaging. So, technically, we're
right. And we'll always be able to claim that.

Posted by: Dr. Shinseki at May 15, 2014 06:23 PM (1CroS)<<<
I concur.

Posted by: Eleanor Clift, Coroner at May 15, 2014 06:25 PM (OSKMn)

60 The VA has been in need of reform for a long time.

Problem is...the weasels in DC don't have the same definition of 'reform' that we do.

ObummerCare was called "Healthcare Reform"...remember?

Their idea of 'Immigration Reform' is a total clusterfuck.

So, based on recent history...Washington's definition of 'reform' is FUBAR.

God save us from any more 'reforms' under the current regime.

Posted by: wheatie at May 15, 2014 06:25 PM (O5BcQ)

61 As if "patient harm" isn't bad enough. Well, sure, we caused harm, but that doesn't mean we killed them. Shinsecki is an even bigger douchebag than I thought.

Posted by: no good deed at May 15, 2014 06:25 PM (ILBCY)

62 Solution? Maybe put the vets on Congress' health insurance plan? Still taxpayer funded, so no change there.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at May 15, 2014 06:25 PM (YEelc)

63 Hah! Got me on that one. Some old school AF folks might remember McPeak. That fucker.
Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:19 PM (x3YFz) McPeak...may piss be upon him. Did give us snazzy Delta Airline uniforms though. /sarc off

Posted by: Ammo Dump at May 15, 2014 06:26 PM (GgPam)

64 The last Damn Few video from a Ranger Up was about the VA. At one point there's a poster on a wall that says "This is what single payer healthcare looks like".

Posted by: Adam at May 15, 2014 06:26 PM (Aif/5)

65 I'm having some difficulty squaring Shinseki's VA career with his USA career. Anyone can help a confused moron out here? Ain't he the 4 star that GWB canned? Why would a career soldier fuck his troopers when they really need it? What's the upside for him?

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 06:26 PM (Oefw4)

66 Meant to say not that anyone noticed my absence, sigh, typing is hard...also forgot to add I think we should just switch the vet and congress's health care plans when they aren't looking. No take backsies. It makes more sense than anything else the White House has proposed...

Also, I read the side bar and am so jealous of Britain right now. Why is
it that the shining light of Reagan conservatism is always descending
in the United States only to land in Europe? Hope Nigel and UKIP sweeps
the leg of all the cushy government toffers.

Posted by: LizLem at May 15, 2014 06:27 PM (yRwC8)

67 "The Veterans Administration Hospitals- Another Failed Experiment in Free Market Healthcare"
byline K. Sebelius

**file this under headlines I wouldn't be surprised to see on HuffPo**

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:27 PM (MKpBT)

68 I don't know much about the VA, so educate me. What is its purpose? What is its goal? Is it for any veteran, no matter when or how long served?

Posted by: SH at May 15, 2014 06:28 PM (gmeXX)

69
doesnt matter

this will all be pre-empted by the news that Bruce Jenner is dating Cher

Posted by: thunderb at May 15, 2014 06:28 PM (zOTsN)

70 Veterans are predominately male. Who gives a shit about them? The birth control needs of 49.9% of the population outweigh the needs of men. A $19.99 penis pump, with postage due, should shut them the hell up.

Posted by: Typical Lefty at May 15, 2014 06:28 PM (j1NwQ)

71 "I take full responsibility" stopped meaning "I take full
responsibility" around 15 years ago. Now it only means "I'm willing to
say the words I take full responsibility."

Only fifteen years? Try Twenty-one, with the Waco Compound and Janet Reno.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at May 15, 2014 06:28 PM (fvBgI)

72 He needs to be retired.

Posted by: Rick Deckard at May 15, 2014 06:28 PM (hbgBG)

73
BTW

VA care is just like Indian Reservation Care or Obamacare

rationing

secret lists

waiting for you to die already

Posted by: thunderb at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (zOTsN)

74 Unless I have a limb missing or my brain or heart explodes, I'm not going to a hospital. Ever.

My mom had an aneurism 3 years ago, the doctor called me and asked permission to leave the catheter in her to induce an infection so she would die.

Ever want to just punch a motherfucker? That was the day.

3 years later, she's fine.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (x3YFz)

75 And I hate military dentists.

No kidding. I was an Air Force brat until my Dad retired. Those dentists were using amalgam long after everyone else had made the switch.

I had one tell me he liked to hear his patients tell him their teeth hurt. It meant he was doing his job right.

Posted by: bonhomme at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (l5wxK)

76 FWIW ace they stole this script from Bernie Sanders (Socialist-Vermont) idiotic rant on CNN a few days ago.

Sanders (I-diot) says he wanted to "clear up the poor reporting" (presumably by CNN.)

After which whoever was interviewing (Tapper maybe?) commented that Sanders has "done a ton for veterans." Except when they actually needed it I suppose, then under the bus they go, because the idea that a government healthcare program should fail, why Sanders can't have that messing up his push for Single ~~payer~~ Killer.

In any case, I'm not expert in the VA, but I know a bit about healthcare systems and healthcare quality.

Burn the fucker down, she's broken beyond repair.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (HDwDg)

77 You can't "accept" the responsibility. You're the head. It IS your responsibility. The responsibility is YOUR FUCKING JOB.

Thank you so much for telling us what your job is.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (RQ/Gi)

78 I think there's more to this shit than meets the eye.

Every one knows the Obama Cabal hates the military. They're PC'ing to death, gutting it full steam ahead..

This is just another fly on the turd....Anti Recruitment...

Well, I'm thinking about joining up...but look how they're treating the Vets that came before me...Like shit.

Posted by: Portnoy at May 15, 2014 06:30 PM (8N1kd)

79 OK, so the VA hospitals are welfare for vets that didn't retire and don't have any other insurance?

What did they do after they left the service? Any of them WORK?

Who qualifies for VA hospitals?

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 15, 2014 06:18 PM (0FSuD)

VA med services are not, contrary to public perception, always free. Services are charged for based on income. Also, if you have "private" insurance, they will hit them up for reimbursement. Eligibility essentially requires a good discharge from the military, i.e. anything other than dishonorable. I can't remember if there are income qualifications as well, along the lines of "if you make more than $XXX, you're not eligible."

Posted by: Country Singer at May 15, 2014 06:30 PM (vUJC4)

80 my Vietnam vet brother receives care from the VA. He is 100 percent disabled from his neck injuries related to his serviceand now has MS

Posted by: thunderb at May 15, 2014 06:31 PM (zOTsN)

81
Then there is AceCare which entitles you to on demand anal probings...

Posted by: Hot Pug! at May 15, 2014 06:31 PM (26E00)

82 VA aka M.U.R.D.E.R. Inc.

Posted by: BEL at May 15, 2014 06:31 PM (CFjk+)

83 "I need a proofer."

I could really use a poofter.

Posted by: Piers Morgan at May 15, 2014 06:32 PM (uhMMS)

84
why isnt anyone linking the VA care to what people can expect under Obamacare

its all the same thing

Posted by: thunderb at May 15, 2014 06:32 PM (zOTsN)

85 Let me guess, Obama will not rest until they get to the bottom of this.

Posted by: Dave S. at May 15, 2014 06:32 PM (UvR6d)

86
Didn't he serve with distinction? No sort of live boy or dead girl shit? no Wesley Clark outbursts? whats the 411 on this guy? The job cant be too big for him

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 06:33 PM (Oefw4)

87 You can't "accept" the responsibility. You're the head. It IS your responsibility. The responsibility is YOUR FUCKING JOB.

Thank you so much for telling us what your job is.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (RQ/Gi)

You're not from around here are you???

Posted by: Kathleen Sebelius at May 15, 2014 06:33 PM (8N1kd)

88 Field Marshal John Maverick McCain unavailable for comment.

Posted by: BEL at May 15, 2014 06:33 PM (CFjk+)

89 We can kill those veterans more efficiently.

Posted by: The GOP at May 15, 2014 06:33 PM (oFCZn)

90 When I say, "I take full responsibility", I mean that I am the firewall that will protect the good and righteous people higher than me in the food chain. They will show their appreciation for my sacrifice by protecting me in my job. It's really quite moral when looked at in the proper light.

Posted by: Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki at May 15, 2014 06:34 PM (IN7k+)

91 VA med services are not, contrary to public perception, always free. Services are charged for based on income. Also, if you have "private" insurance, they will hit them up for reimbursement. Eligibility essentially requires a good discharge from the military, i.e. anything other than dishonorable. I can't remember if there are income qualifications as well, along the lines of "if you make more than $XXX, you're not eligible."

----

Why do we need VA hospitals?

Posted by: SH at May 15, 2014 06:34 PM (gmeXX)

92 I had one tell me he liked to hear his patients tell him their teeth hurt. It meant he was doing his job right.

Posted by: bonhomme at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (l5wxK)

Yeah, I remember going in for a cleaning and it hurt more than ranger school.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:34 PM (x3YFz)

93
In the age of obama, no govt employee is responsible for anything and they no nothing, nothing!

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 15, 2014 06:34 PM (hJauc)

94 You can't "accept" the responsibility. You're the head. It IS your responsibility. The responsibility is YOUR FUCKING JOB.

Thank you so much for telling us what your job is.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 15, 2014 06:29 PM (RQ/Gi)

What he "accepted" was the paycheck, and wants to go on accepting it. Unless SCOAMF fires him I guess he continues to get paid.

Posted by: Retread at May 15, 2014 06:34 PM (l7hog)

95 69
doesnt matter this will all be pre-empted by the news that Bruce Jenner is dating Cher Posted by: thunderb at May 15, 2014 06:28 PM (zOTsN)

Along with some combo of gay sports reality show dramas, elevator celeb slap fights, and models in tubs in various states of undress musing on their sex lives. The circuses, they must go on or the public might start to notice how crappy the govt is...

Posted by: LizLem at May 15, 2014 06:35 PM (yRwC8)

96 "Ain't he the 4 star that GWB canned?"

The left loudly shrieked that Shinseki had been rudely pushed into early retirement by Don Rumsfeld after having criticized the plans for the occupation of Iraq.

I carry no brief for either Shinseki nor Rumsfeld, but I will note that Rumsfeld strongly disputed this characterization of events in his memoirs, and said that Shinseki had already filed his retirement papers before making the remarks in question.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 06:35 PM (noWW6)

97 Responsibility? Above my pay grade (TM).

Posted by: Team Shinseki at May 15, 2014 06:35 PM (1CroS)

98 military dental techs = psychopaths.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:35 PM (x3YFz)

99 So the VA is a shitty system. This isn't exactly news to anyone who has spent any time around a VA pretty much since they came into existence.

Posted by: Aviator at May 15, 2014 06:35 PM (3rrMW)

100 When Obama said he could be a better speechwriter than his speechwriters and could be a better EPA administrator than his EPA administrator and a better VA director than his VA director he wasn't really setting the bar very high, was he?

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:36 PM (MKpBT)

101 also 'know' is a word I use when I am thinking about what I am writing.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 15, 2014 06:36 PM (hJauc)

102 Gee I can't imagine why the higher up types wouldn't want people to know that a massive highly staffed hugely funded government healthcare plan couldn't meet timely service requirements and was unable to deliver adequate healthcare

Posted by: ginaswo at May 15, 2014 06:36 PM (hDN/2)

103 84 why isnt anyone linking the VA care to what people can expect under Obamacare
its all the same thing

Posted by: thunderb at May 15, 2014 06:32 PM (zOTsN)

-----------

Some did...back when they were talking about passing the Ocare Bill.

But it fell on deaf ears.
It was pooh-poohed away by the Dems saying..."Oh, the VA may have a few minor problems, but it is an overall good system for our Vets!"

Posted by: wheatie at May 15, 2014 06:37 PM (O5BcQ)

104 "Why do we need VA hospitals?"

Why does the USDA need machine guns? Everyone in the federal leviathan is all about staking out and growing their fiefdom.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at May 15, 2014 06:37 PM (uhMMS)

105 What he "accepted" was the paycheck, and wants to go on accepting it. Unless SCOAMF fires him I guess he continues to get paid.

Posted by: Retread at May 15, 2014 06:34 PM (l7hog)
That's how it works sweetie.....

Posted by: Kathleen Sebelius at May 15, 2014 06:37 PM (8N1kd)

106 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 06:09 PM (yz6yg

Grandpa fought in two wars, WWII and Korea. He left 1 or two years short of retirement. Went to the VA once, swore he'd never go back and found a job until he could no longer work to ensure he didn't have it

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:37 PM (HDwDg)

107 military dental techs = psychopaths.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:35 PM (x3YFz)

Female Navy Dental Techs = Crazy in the Sack.
Don't ask how I know.

Posted by: Country Singer at May 15, 2014 06:37 PM (vUJC4)

108 Yes torque, and it turned out he was right and Rummy was wrong. I'm making the case he's a career straight shooter. how is he caught up in this?

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 06:38 PM (Oefw4)

109 Easiest job in the world?

- Pediatrician in a VA Hospital.

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:38 PM (MKpBT)

110 >>I could really use a poofter.
Posted by: Piers Morgan

Get a mirror.

Posted by: Aviator at May 15, 2014 06:38 PM (3rrMW)

111 34 18 Name one liberal hack douchebag who has had the balls to resign.

David Petraeus?

Posted by: wheatie at May 15, 2014 06:17 PM (O5BcQ)

That's because he was banging some chick not that he wasn't doing his "job"

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at May 15, 2014 06:39 PM (HVff2)

112 110 >>I could really use a poofter.
Posted by: Piers Morgan

Poofters Froth Wyoming?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at May 15, 2014 06:40 PM (HVff2)

113 Ammodump makes excellent point

Illegals get top notch treatment in our ERs and trauma wards across this country ON DEMAND

Our most worthy who have risked all for us are LEGT TO DIE
Abroad AND at home

Posted by: ginaswo at May 15, 2014 06:40 PM (hDN/2)

114 I had a civy dentist put a crown on a shitty military-grade filling.

The guy was super asshole. Barked at the tech, was a dick to me while I was in the chair.

Difference between a military dentist and a civilian dentist is after the procedure was through I stood up and told him he could go fuck himself with a rake.

And the techs laughed.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:40 PM (x3YFz)

115 /left

Posted by: ginaswo at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (hDN/2)

116 Coup de tête second look?

Posted by: PO'd Active Duty Soldiers at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (CFjk+)

117 I'm outraged and take full responsibility. Now, what's for dinner.

Posted by: Shecky at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (27KaM)

118 Ace,
Your comment 43 is enough to make me sick! I can't believe they did that, yet got bonus.

I've read enough for today.

I'll be back later.

Posted by: Carol at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (gjOCp)

119 We all have VA horror stories, I'm sure, but here's mine.

My grandpa, a 93 year old WWII vet, suffered a stroke a week after he buried my grandmother, his wife of 69 years.

It was a major stroke, and the stroke center was concerned about giving him the medication to mitigate the damage because of his heart issues. Anyway, it left him significantly disabled, but and this is important, lucid and making progress.

He spent a month in a rehab center and was doing very well. He had been with my mother in Texas at a private hospital, but he decided that he'd rather spend his last years with his son in Tennessee at the VA nursing home there.

When he left Texas, he was making conversation, remembering everything about his life, and managing his secretions. He was getting physical and occupational therapy, and he was making progress.

Everything changed when he got to the VA. They stopped all therapy, including speech therapy which was necessary for him to manage his secretions. They left him flat on his back all day long. He got pneumonia again and again and again.

We did everything we could to fight them, but what could we do? They had an ethics panel fight us at every turn, calling his care "futile." I scared the crap out of them by telling them that I happened to be best friends with the premier expert on futile care theory in the country, but all that did was keep them from putting a DNR on his records without our consent.

He died a year after he entered the VA. Pneumonia and a UTI. Direct neglect. Nice way to say "thank you for your service" don't you think?

Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (ejehg)

120 109 Easiest job in the world?

- Pediatrician in a VA Hospital.

Or at Planned Parenthood.

Posted by: Countrysquire at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (EpcTU)

121 Shinseki also brought the black beret into existence for the entire Army instead of as a Ranger designator.

Posted by: no good deed at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (ILBCY)

122 OT: Is it a bad thing that my life coach benched me and sent in a substitute?

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (MKpBT)

123 91...Why do we need VA hospitals?

We don't.

Our Vets should be able to get care at any hospital they want to go to.
We should just issue them a 'Med Card'...and give hospitals an incentive for taking those cards.

Posted by: wheatie at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (O5BcQ)

124 Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (ejehg)

The VA ethics panel is a waste of good money that could go elsewhere.

Just take my word on that

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (HDwDg)

125
Female Navy Dental Techs = Crazy in the Sack.
Don't ask how I know.

Posted by: Country Singer at May 15, 2014 06:37 PM (vUJC4)

They bite!

I likey!

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (x3YFz)

126 Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 06:41 PM (ejehg)

The VA ethics panel is a waste of good money that could go elsewhere.

Just take my word on that

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (HDwDg)

127 Funny thing, about a year ago an old high school friend who's a prototypical NYC liberal was telling me how great the care was at VA hospitals - best health outcomes in the country. He's not a veteran so can't say for sure where he sourced that nugget. I doubt these revelations would change his tune a bit and quite frankly I got no interest in calling Mr. Health-Care-Is-A-Right to find out. I'd probably only learn this is all because Obama is black.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (uhMMS)

128 More on that McDonough interview:

""The fact of these deaths is an outrage to the president. He's made that clear. You heard what Gen. Shinseki had to say today. He's mad as hell about this. Nobody's more mad than the president," he told Tapper."

There's that fucking phrase again; "nobody's more mad than the president"

Um, I think the vets and their families are juuuuust a bit more upset that the fucking Ego in Chief.

Fuck these fucking fucks with All The Fucks.

Guaranteed we'll be hearing the companion to 'nobody's more mad' in six months:

"Oh, that old thing? That's just the GOP obsessing over old news. Not a smidge of scandal."

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (nZiT2)

129 One other note:

If you are a Veteran singed up in the VA system, you are exempt from TFGCare requirements.

Back when I was more broke than I am now and had a job that didn't provide insurance, I used the VA. My last two employers have provided it, so I don't use the VA any more, but last year I got a letter stating that because I was enrolled in the VA system, I didn't have to worry with TFGCare.

Posted by: Country Singer at May 15, 2014 06:44 PM (vUJC4)

130 The VA. Hiding wait times so they can get their performance bonuses and sentencing cancer patients to guaranteed death before they are ever allowed to receive treatment.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 15, 2014 06:44 PM (z/Ubi)

131 Yes torque, and it turned out he was right and Rummy was wrong. I'm
making the case he's a career straight shooter. how is he caught up in
this?

Basically, they took the occupation management away from the Pentagon and gave it to the State Dept. (you know, under the management of Colin Powell, Obama supporter extraordinaire), but when things became much worse the media and politicians would drag out Shinseki's statements and hammer Rumsfeld with them.

He was also caught up in the procurement of the Stryker interim vehicle, which it looks like we'll be stuck with until the end of time. You can google various criticisms of the vehicle from back before it was selected for yourself, I'm kind of tired and in a rush.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at May 15, 2014 06:44 PM (fvBgI)

132 "The VA ethics panel is a waste of good money that could go elsewhere. "

It's been my experience that that's true of ethics panels in general, which often exist only to figure out how they can kill you with legal cover.

I know that's not totally fair. My OBGYN sits on the eithcs panel at his hospital to offer a pro-life perspective, but when you hear you're being referred to the ethics panel...things ain't good.

Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 06:45 PM (ejehg)

133 Thank god for tri-care
I can't believe I typed that

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 15, 2014 06:45 PM (OF3aH)

134 Shinseki is Japanese for "Serial Fuck Up". He was Chief of Staff of the Army when I was on active duty, and made some of the more hair brained decisions I've seen; such as those stupid black berets for everyone, and trying to combine a light infantry brigade with an armor division.

Posted by: UGAdawg at May 15, 2014 06:45 PM (e/9tl)

135 "Nobody's more mad than the president," he told Tapper.""

Outraged tweet in 5...4...3...2...

Posted by: LizLem at May 15, 2014 06:45 PM (yRwC8)

136 >>>Illegals get top notch treatment in our ERs and trauma wards across this country ON DEMAND<<<

I don't ask for special treatment, I just ask to be treated like an illegal alien.

Posted by: Howie Carr at May 15, 2014 06:46 PM (OSKMn)

137 Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at May 15, 2014 06:42 PM (uhMMS)

I heard that a lot in 2009.

"We need healthcare more like the VA!!!!"

Really?! Da Fuq? It's well known to be an entirely broken system.

People confuse Tri-care (which is quote good, but also largely managed by private providers) with VA care.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:46 PM (HDwDg)

138 It is no longer about results, its about goals and feelings. My goal is to serve the Vets, I feel bad I didn't do a good job, but I tried. And you should be thankful and grateful that I do feel this way. Sure I take responsibility for it but there are no consequences.

Its outcome based life and death.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at May 15, 2014 06:46 PM (HVff2)

139 Yes torque, and it turned out he was right and Rummy was wrong. I'm
making the case he's a career straight shooter. how is he caught up in
this?

Also, maybe what you learned about him being a straight-shooter before isn't-exactly-the-whole-truth if it's inconsistant with what you're learning about his character now.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at May 15, 2014 06:47 PM (fvBgI)

140 "Why does the USDA need machine guns?"

Simple proposed rule:

Federal agencies that don't perform a specific military or law enforcement mission don't get to have their own paramilitary armed subunits, period. All such units are to be disbanded immediately.

If such an agency has a circumstance requiring armed and trained federal officers, they can request a detail of U.S. Marshals attend, upon review of the request by a federal judge.

Gee, if only the Republican party controlled the part of the government that makes budgets, and could thereby impose such simple common-sense reforms. Wouldn't that be great if it were true?

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 06:47 PM (noWW6)

141 "trying to combine a light infantry brigade with an armor division.

Posted by: UGAdawg"

track goo?

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 06:47 PM (TETYm)

142 I'm so gosh darned mad I could Tweet!

Posted by: Shinseki at May 15, 2014 06:47 PM (Dwehj)

143 Thing-- but where does it follow that he don't give a shit about his troopers? This is the thing I cant understand. the evidence is clear that he doesn't.

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 06:48 PM (Oefw4)

144 Remember when Obama was madder than anyone about the IRS?

Posted by: blaster at May 15, 2014 06:48 PM (rCQHn)

145
Jake Tapper asks the WH Chief of Staff...
...
...
Why bother anymore?

Posted by: wth at May 15, 2014 06:48 PM (wAQA5)

146 My wife and I were trying to figure out the last time somebody resigned on principle over something they had done or because of a policy which with they could not agree. We couldn't think of the last time. We are a long way from Eisenhower on D-Day with the scribbled note in his pocket.

Posted by: Skookumchuk at May 15, 2014 06:48 PM (OSzB9)

147 Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 06:45 PM (ejehg

Eh, it's Alasdair MacIntyre being lived out in the world rather than out of a book.

Thanks to moral pluralism and postmodernism there's not common source of ethics to really appeal to.

So the best a committee can do is either a) mediate or b) decree.

Neither one of those really works.
And as I said during my comps exams "I reject the notion that there's some middle ground that ASBH would call 'ethics facilitation.' It's a fabrication at best and at worst it does more harm than good."

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:49 PM (HDwDg)

148 Oh and one more thing, in the VA system they absolutely CAN DNR you without you or youour family's consent.

Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 06:49 PM (ejehg)

149 Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 06:47 PM (noWW6)

Define "law enforcement."

The USDA enforces a crap ton of laws.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:50 PM (HDwDg)

150 BRB, tweeting #madashell

Posted by: B.O. at May 15, 2014 06:50 PM (KQqP5)

151 I sure hope we get a hashtag campaign to deal with this. Because Barko is dedicated doncha know and if there's one thing I've learned there's no substitute for the efficacy of hashtags.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at May 15, 2014 06:50 PM (dvRYt)

152 Thank god for tri-care
I can't believe I typed that

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 15, 2014 06:45 PM (OF3aH)

No kidding. On both.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:50 PM (x3YFz)

153 Shinseki: "I'm just so goshdarned mad that...

...my blood is nearing room temperature!"

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:50 PM (MKpBT)

154 It's hard to believe that man was a general officer in the US Army. Well, not really hard, but a shame nonetheless.

Posted by: toby928(C) at May 15, 2014 06:51 PM (QupBk)

155 Gee, if only the Republican party controlled the part of the government
that makes budgets, and could thereby impose such simple common-sense
reforms.

The GOPe wants us dead.

Posted by: PO'd Active Duty Soldiers at May 15, 2014 06:51 PM (CFjk+)

156 Oh and one more thing, in the VA system they absolutely CAN DNR you without you or youour family's consent.

Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 06:49 PM (ejehg

"Slow Codes" go back a very long time.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:51 PM (HDwDg)

157 "Nobody is more mad than the president"

Of course he is angry.
Angry that this story is in the news.
Angry that he will have to feed more lies to the media.
Angry that more people will question him, his efforts, his abilities.

Angry that it will hurt his image.
Angry that some voters might lose faith in him.
Angry that someone will have to justify asking for more money, angry that conservatives will hold that money hostage, angry that he will have to give up or fight harder for money that doesn't go to the VA.

Sure he's angry.

Posted by: Reginald Smythe-Beufort at May 15, 2014 06:51 PM (iOf1e)

158 "Basically, they took the occupation management away from the Pentagon
and gave it to the State Dept. (you know, under the management of Colin
Powell, Obama supporter extraordinaire)"

This squares up with Rumsfeld's recounting of what happened.

Rummy says, and he has a stack of documentation to back it up, that he repeatedly asked Powell whether State was ready to take over in a situation where there were still multiple active insurgencies *and* those insurgencies were also fighting one another.

Powell basically said, "Relax, we got this," and then the real shitrain began.

Not least because foreign service officers turned out to be strongly unwilling to undertake the sorts of risky outside the wire duties previously performed by uniformed military officers.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (noWW6)

159 My life coach punts on first down.

Posted by: Moron in a Members Only Snuggie at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (Ks4nX)

160 O.o o.O O_O

There is a dude from the TSA here at the gun store asking about night vision gear

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (OF3aH)

161 "Really?! Da Fuq? It's well known to be an entirely broken system"

No, no, unlike everything else the federal government does the VA health system is a model of efficiency and unparallelled success.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (uhMMS)

162 Define "law enforcement."

The USDA enforces a crap ton of laws.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:50 PM (HDwDg)

Pretty sure I don't recognize "USDA" an a legit LE agency.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (x3YFz)

163 Jake Tapper asks the WH Chief of Staff...
...
...
Dude, what's up with you assholes?

Posted by: wth at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (wAQA5)

164 Shinseki: "I'm just so goshdarned mad that...

I can still see pretty darn straight, but won't be able to if I get any more mad."

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (MKpBT)

165 Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:52 PM (x3YFz)

I don't either. My point is that terms need to be defined though.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:54 PM (HDwDg)

166 The GOPe wants us dead.

Posted by: PO'd Active Duty Soldiers at May 15, 2014 06:51 PM (CFjk+)

Feeling's mutual.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:54 PM (x3YFz)

167 These were just ObamaCare field tests.

Posted by: --- at May 15, 2014 06:55 PM (MMC8r)

168 Exactly.

When you and your family are put on a 12 month delay for surgery and die 6 months before surgery -- the Govt will say there is no proof the delay cause the death.

Kinda like how Amb. Stevens wasn't murdered, just died of smoke inhalation.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at May 15, 2014 06:55 PM (ZPrif)

169 Hey, America, how's my ass taste?

Posted by: China Strong!!!11! at May 15, 2014 06:56 PM (ZPrif)

170 I'd also note by the way that this is what happens when you turn Quality Assurance marker making over to a bunch of academics who don't actually understand incentives.

I've said that before to people and been called a heretic and chased out of the room.

It's true though, the people in charge of building the standards (Hi National Center for Ethics in Healthcare!) doesn't seem to comprehend how people will manipulate incentives.

Frankly my entire field has 0 understanding of economics at a Micro or Macro level and that's just going to cause them to keep fucking things up for...well at least a generation, unless someone can figure out how to destroy the field before that. (Hint: It starts by destroying ELSI grants.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 06:56 PM (HDwDg)

171 Breaking: MSNBC reporting that Gen. Shinseki has identified the YouTube video responsible for shoddy care provided by several VA hospitals.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at May 15, 2014 06:56 PM (+lsX1)

172 My life coach has me running the single wing offense.

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:56 PM (MKpBT)

173 Out: Droopy - "I'mmm sooooo haaaaapy."
In: Obama/Shinseki/Random Bureaucrat - "I'mmm sooooo angryyyyy."

Posted by: L.I.B. at May 15, 2014 06:57 PM (OSKMn)

174 171 Breaking: MSNBC reporting that Gen. Shinseki has identified the YouTube video responsible for shoddy care provided by several VA hospitals.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at May 15, 2014 06:56 PM (+lsX1)

The sad thing is they could run with this and the meatheads would believe it.

Posted by: The GOP at May 15, 2014 06:58 PM (oFCZn)

175 "I accept full responsibility" stopped meaning anything, at least for politicians, a lot more than 15 years ago. Recall David Frye's (RIP) immortal impression in 1973 of Nixon "coming clean" about the Watergate break-in:

"I accept full responsibility. But not the blame. Let me explain the difference. People who are to blame lose their jobs. People who are responsible, do not."

Posted by: JPS at May 15, 2014 06:58 PM (m4vcY)

176 "The agency was misreporting the wait-times for procedures -- to hide how very, very long some vets waited for treatment. Some waited until they simply died."

This is also the story of Obama-care and what most Americans will be dealilng with in the near future.

Be sure to say "thank you" to the people who brought it to you and keep the insurance card clutched tightly in your hand as you wait.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 15, 2014 06:58 PM (4h33n)

177 If I've learned one thing though, it's that a paltry apology now serves as absolution for every sin in postmodern America.

Posted by: Shinseki at May 15, 2014 06:58 PM (Dwehj)

178 Shinseki: "I'm just so goshdarned mad that...

I'm going to count to 10 to avoid doing anything rash...

...1...2...okay, I'm not mad anymore."

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 06:59 PM (MKpBT)

179 I apologized, how come nobody forgave me?

Posted by: Donald Sterling at May 15, 2014 07:00 PM (ZPrif)

180 He was also caught up in the procurement of the
Stryker interim vehicle, which it looks like we'll be stuck with until
the end of time. You can google various criticisms of the vehicle from
back before it was selected for yourself, I'm kind of tired and in a
rush.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at May 15, 2014 06:44 PM (fvBgI)

Actually, one reason the Stryker is staying around is because it's proven pretty reliable and the troops actually like it. There's a plan in the works to add a 30mm gun to some of them and likely do away with the ones with the 120mm.

Posted by: Country Singer at May 15, 2014 07:01 PM (vUJC4)

181 150
BRB, tweeting #madashell
Posted by: B.O. at May 15, 2014 06:50 PM (KQqP5)

Crap, I better look like I'm doing something too... *tweets #BringBackOurVets*

Posted by: Michelle at May 15, 2014 07:01 PM (yRwC8)

182 Waiting for o's definition of "smidge" in relation to vet deaths.

Posted by: Never at May 15, 2014 07:01 PM (hRV3r)

183 You know, a "normal" Presidency would have gone straight down the shitter months or years ago. Thank gawd for political correctness!

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at May 15, 2014 07:02 PM (Dwehj)

184 179
I apologized, how come nobody forgave me?

Posted by: Donald Sterling at May 15, 2014 07:00 PM (ZPrif)

But did you take responsibility?????

Posted by: LizLem at May 15, 2014 07:02 PM (yRwC8)

185 Remember when progs said military people lived in socialist paradise?

Well. Here we are

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 07:03 PM (zOTsN)

186 @168 Costanza Defense

"-- the Govt will say there is no proof the delay cause the death."

And you wonder why the dems fought so hard to keep the inheritance tax.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 15, 2014 07:03 PM (4h33n)

187 My daughter had a classmate when she first got out of service and was going to college. (Well, before she twigged that the higher-ed system was a scam to extract money from her GI benefits by constantly changing the requirements for the degree that she wanted.) He was younger than she was, a USMC veteran, and had serious service-and-war-connected injuries.
He was going to the VA - and according to my daughter, their treatments were worsening his condition exponentially. They had him on painkillers that were disintegrating the calcium in his bones, doing a number on his liver and kidneys ... and he was walking with a cane! A guy younger than she was. She will not go to the VA, after seeing that. She will buy her own health insurance, as long as Obama-care allows. She will go to the local pay-as-ya-go clinic, rather than go to the VA. She will self-medicate, even - rather than go to them.
At this rate, she will probably be better off.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at May 15, 2014 07:04 PM (Asjr7)

188 You know, I spent 2 years on Army Staff (1996-199

and was there when Shinseki was the G-3. I worked with him, and briefly, for him. I have always defended him. When Rumsfeld gave him the bum's rush over his (very accurate) assessment that occupying Iraq would take 300,000 troops, I defended him. I always thought he was one of the good guys.

Not anymore.

It was said upthread. For "I accept full responsibility" to actually mean something, it has to have consequences. Otherwise, it's a catch-phrase.

I used to think this guy stood for something. He's a hack.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:04 PM (yz6yg)

189 The VA has been fucked for years. It's not O'Bama though I do think blaming the active president might make changes happen.

I'm watching the 5 and Bob just said that vouchers would not work because hospitals can't handle battle wounds and PTSD.

I bet they could. I bet given the opportunity to make money (capitalism) they would staff up to meet the needs of our vets. The VA on the other hand is like dealing with the DMV. "Sit there wait an hour and if we feel like it we'll look at your problem."

I posted my own minor gripe a few nights ago. My ex and I stopped at the Chicago VA to make an appointment to have her missing tooth looked at. They pulled it in Naval boot because it was bad but it was supposed to be replaced by the Navy. Now I'm not big on asking for help. She didn't really do all she should have to follow up. The issue was that we received a bill for talking to the receptionist for over 100 bucks. They said she'd had lab work including x-rays. My ex was 6 months pregnant with my first son. There is no way on god's green earth anyone (esp. me or her) would have let them do x-rays. I wrote my congressman in IL and we complained to the VA and no response. In the end they got their money from our tax returns.

Posted by: bestie21 at May 15, 2014 07:05 PM (qifmL)

190 Here's the kicker, kids: As Veteran, if you complain too long, or too loudly, about their mal-treatment...or become depressed over their mal-treatment ...guess where you'll end up?

In the VA psych ward. ...where most of the docs and counselors are progressive libs.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at May 15, 2014 07:05 PM (q6kaG)

191 #Bringbackourhealthcare

your welcome...should be fixed any minute now.

Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist at May 15, 2014 07:06 PM (Dth0i)

192 It doesn't make economic sense for them to prolong your life

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 07:06 PM (zOTsN)

193 And you wonder why the dems fought so hard to keep the inheritance tax. Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 15, 2014 07:03 PM (4h33n)

Correction: Death Tax.

Posted by: AOSHQ Style Guide, Page 244 at May 15, 2014 07:07 PM (yRwC8)

194 I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it any more!

Now watch this drive.

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 15, 2014 07:07 PM (uhMMS)

195 I forgot the kicker. We came of the El from her citizenship test to go to the VA.

Posted by: bestie21 at May 15, 2014 07:08 PM (qifmL)

196 VA=Death
Now, wouldn't that make a good hashtag?

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at May 15, 2014 07:09 PM (Asjr7)

197 Frankly my entire field has 0 understanding of economics at a Micro or Macro level and that's just going to cause them to keep fucking things up for...well at least a generation, unless someone can figure out how to destroy the field before that.

lib·er·al adjective

1. A person incapable of understand basic concepts of economics. See also: progressive, functional illiterate

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:10 PM (yz6yg)

198 An ER PA friend of mine said that they get several/many cases where the VA doesn't want to diagnose the symptoms. The VA would then have to treat. Instead the VA sends them to local ER's. The poor patient then gets a diagnosis then treatment falls on the local hospital.

Oddly Sean Hannity mentioned bladder cancer twice today and that's the exact diagnosis that my friend mentioned more than once.

Posted by: The VA at May 15, 2014 07:10 PM (vucd9)

199 >>>VA=Death

Now, wouldn't that make a good hashtag?<<<

VA = Death from Above

Posted by: L.I.B. at May 15, 2014 07:10 PM (OSKMn)

200 Posted by: bestie21 at May 15, 2014 07:05 PM (qifmL)

The PTSD is probably something that could be handled by a hospital, especially if they had a large enough market to warrant hiring a specialist in that area (but he might be right about that.)

The battle wounds would probably be even more able to be dealt with, it's not as if there aren't analogous medical conditions that occur here as well.*

*Not in any way to downplay what these soldiers deal with, just to note that given the actual medical issues I don't know why any place familiar with handing Level 1 trauma and it's follow-up wouldn't be able to handle this.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:11 PM (HDwDg)

201 You folks debate this all you want.

Me ... I'm going to stay the course, and keep my kids out of the military. Who, exactly, should I send my little cherubs out to fight for - in this current society ? And who, exactly, should I expect to care for them when shit goes wrong ?

Some of you cry like a rat eating onions when Barry cuts the Active Duty budget. I don't think he can cut soon enough. Less troops for those like him to send overseas on bullshit missions should lead to less casualties receiving shitty care at home.

Double Bonus ... Less toys for those like him to use at "Domestic Terrorists".

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 07:11 PM (v3BJ5)

202 #DieSoonerSaveTheVA

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 07:11 PM (MKpBT)

203 I bet they could. I bet given the opportunity to make money (capitalism) they would staff up to meet the needs of our vets. The VA on the other hand is like dealing with the DMV. "Sit there wait an hour and if we feel like it we'll look at your problem."

Posted by: bestie21 at May 15, 2014 07:05 PM (qifmL)

::: sigh :::

My wife is a clinical psychologist, specializing in TBI and PTSD, and she works for the DC VA Hospital.

I assure you that the docs are not like that.

I also assure you that the people who are scheduling the vet, and taking them in at the reception desk are exactly like that.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:13 PM (yz6yg)

204 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:10 PM (yz6yg

That too.

Problem is these functional illiterates somehow a) got power and b) managed to form a "consensus" that looks a lot like the climate change one (i.e. based on close-mindedness, and bullying.)

If you knew the number of times I said "why that is just the stupidest idea I've ever heard of" at my conferences.
Well it's the reason I stopped going to the conferences.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:14 PM (HDwDg)

205 Dammit. I knew I'd forget that sock after dinner.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 15, 2014 07:14 PM (vucd9)

206 "Actually, one reason the Stryker is staying around is because it's proven pretty reliable and the troops actually like it."

I caught a comment from one Stryker brigade guy who said that it was an absolutely perfect vehicle for Afghanistan.

Perfect in that it wasn't physically capable of going into a lot of dangerous places which the command structure was demanding they investigate.

So, the Stryker crews got to take it easy while the poor bloody leg infantry got to walk in over the terrain that was too much for the vehicle.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 07:14 PM (noWW6)

207 Why it's almost as if no one in this Administration (or government as a whole for that matter) has run so much as a lemonade stand before!

Oh... wait...

Nevermind.

Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:15 PM (j0wOO)

208 Someone needs to photoshop a pic of SCOAMF and/or Shinseki pushing a vet in a wheelchair over a cliff. Then a bunch more in a line behind a sign that has a long ass wait time posted on it.

Posted by: L.I.B. at May 15, 2014 07:15 PM (OSKMn)

209 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:13 PM (yz6yg

With the exception of Gramps, everyone I've known who has had to use the VA has not complained about the care itself.

The bureaucratic nightmare on the other hand is what they hate.

Having said that, some of the standard of care needs work to (Hi, Cochran Medical forgetting to properly sterilize the equipment!)

And in fairness to Gramps, he was always unclear to us if it was the dentists that caused him to loose his teeth or the wait to see said dentist.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:17 PM (HDwDg)

210 C'mon guys, nobody got murdered!

Posted by: Eleanor Clift at May 15, 2014 07:17 PM (KQqP5)

211 @50 tangonine

"Yeah, pissing off a few million americans trained in asymmetric warfare with 2-6 deployments under their belt... no worries."

Not to mention a lot of them having insurgency and guerilla operation experience by learning it through counter measures. That is something that doesn't cross their minds.. until it's to late.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 15, 2014 07:19 PM (4h33n)

212 "I'm watching the 5 and Bob just said that vouchers would not work because hospitals can't handle battle wounds and PTSD."

Calling bullshit on the first of these.

I had some work done by an orthopedic surgeon who says he sees everyone from competitive sports casualties to car wreck survivors to trip-and-fall elderly to veterans.

He said that fixing busted up bones and joints is fixing busted up bones and joints. No special magic to any of it.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 07:19 PM (noWW6)

213 I also assure you that the people who are scheduling the vet, and taking them in at the reception desk are exactly like that.

Several years ago I was helping out a vet friend of mine who was AO'd in 'Nam. Dude suffered through two forms of cancer and other assorted serious ailments. I experienced twice a week exactly what you are alluding to above. It was friggin' appalling.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 (sock off) at May 15, 2014 07:19 PM (Dwehj)

214 Is this another of those things where Obama "will not rest" until it's solved? Vacations, parties, fundraisers, happy hours, weekends off, and not showing up for work until noonish or so notwithstanding, of course.

Oh... phony scandal. Carry on with the golfing then.

Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:19 PM (j0wOO)

215 Seems to me the VA scandal sort of ties together all the inefficiency and waste of Obamacare with all the coverup of benghazi

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 07:20 PM (zOTsN)

216
I'm with scroogg dogg. I had this argument with jane do'h when her kid joined the marines. oh, she was so proud, oh I was such an asshole for telling her my 3 sons had gotten a big lecture from me about the institutional betrayal syndrome gripping the USSA. nobody in my family is getting croaked in some fucking useless made for re election bullshit. who wants to be the parent of the last kid killed so Obama can brag about the 'stan?
If you allow the young and dumb in your life to be swept up by any institution 's bullshit -- remember you were warned.

let it burn

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 07:21 PM (Oefw4)

217 The current VA, in reality, is like the story of President Obama.

Posted by: BEL at May 15, 2014 07:21 PM (CFjk+)

218 tsrblke: Exactly. Your not downplaying this. The military has already dealt with the immediate trauma what we are really talking about is recovery and therapy. If you picture this in your mind would you rather do therapy at the local hospital or at the VA. Denver had a really nice VA but Chicago or other places maybe not so nice. Also if your from Hazel Green WI should you have to drive to Madison for the therapy you need. Why can't you just use a voucher and go to Dubuque IA.

PTSD probably still needs to be addressed by larger hospitals. PTSD happens to crime victims and it's treated in larger cities. In my scenario you still have to drive to Madison for that help. Nothing changes except your not sitting in line at the DMV waiting for the help you need.

Posted by: bestie21 at May 15, 2014 07:23 PM (qifmL)

219 This *should* be old news. Everyone I know who has ever served has told me about inexplicably cancelled appointments, ridiculously long waits, and illiterate, incompetent, Affirmative Action hired administrative staff for years.

Nearly every vet I know pays extra for benefits are their civilian jobs or gets their own insurance so they can leave the VA as a backup or last resort, if at all.

Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:24 PM (j0wOO)

220 There is something to be said for the calming effect of heads on spikes along all roads leading to DC.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at May 15, 2014 07:24 PM (7xlvk)

221 With the exception of Gramps, everyone I've known who has had to use the VA has not complained about the care itself.

The bureaucratic nightmare on the other hand is what they hate.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:17 PM (HDwDg)

Yup. I can for a fact tell you that my VA medical file is incorrect. I know because my wife checked it out. It lists me as having service-connected ailments I do not and did not ever have. A doctor did not put those in my file. I was some obscure GS-9 clerk somewhere who didn't give a shit about being correct.

It took me 9 months to get an appointment with the VA Voc Rehab folks. I wrote two letters (on top of my application) and made over 25 phone calls, not a one of which was ever answered. So....actually, the VA didn't even make the appointment. I had to write the Veterans Affairs columnist at the Washington Times and I had a phone call from the VA and an appointment the next day.

It took the VA 16 months to process my paperwork and 7 months to get the physical that would determine if I ever got benefits.

The VA bureaucracy sucks. I have a solution, appoint Sean Bannion Secretary of the VA and make the agency exempt from all federal labor laws and OPM regulations for 10 years.

I'll fix that shit in 5.

The VA needs to dump the deadwood, and the only way to do that is to go through there with the HR equivalent of a chain saw and lay waste to every single mouth breather who think he's owed a job, "just because."

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:24 PM (yz6yg)

222 illiterate, incompetent, Affirmative Action hired administrative staff for years

There you have it.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 (sock off) at May 15, 2014 07:25 PM (Dwehj)

223 There is something to be said for the calming effect of heads on spikes along all roads leading to DC.

Da! Very calming.

Posted by: Putin at May 15, 2014 07:26 PM (CFjk+)

224
The Affordable Care Act will never be allowed to deteriorated to the extent the Veterans Administration did through no fault of their own. It's the fault of veterans who did not take care of their health during deployment, and now expect the taxpayer to pay for their peccadilloes such as penis rot due to whore humping, and excessive masturbatory activity creating mental anxiety after staring at Kate Upton's udders for protracted periods of time.

Posted by: Kathleen Sebelius, HHS Secretary at May 15, 2014 07:26 PM (nQjHM)

225 This *should* be old news. Everyone I know who has ever served has told me about inexplicably cancelled appointments, ridiculously long waits, and illiterate, incompetent, Affirmative Action hired administrative staff for years.

Nearly every vet I know pays extra for benefits are their civilian jobs or gets their own insurance so they can leave the VA as a backup or last resort, if at all.
Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:24 PM (j0wOO)

THIS

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:26 PM (yz6yg)

226 Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 07:14 PM (noWW6)

Like anything else, it has it's limitations. There's no one perfect vehicle for every type of terrain or function, and it's not great off of the hardball.

Posted by: Country Singer at May 15, 2014 07:27 PM (vUJC4)

227 excessive masturbatory activity creating mental anxiety after staring at Kate Upton's udders for protracted periods of time.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:28 PM (yz6yg)

228 Dude, that was like 2 years ago!

Posted by: An "Adult" Named Tommy at May 15, 2014 07:28 PM (jucos)

229 I used to dread by buddy's appointments A different flavor of FUBAR every week.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 (sock off) at May 15, 2014 07:29 PM (Dwehj)

230
last Isaw anything postedfrom her she was agreeing with me. Institutional Betrayal Syndrome. the proggs take over established organizations and turn them inside out. It is simply impossible to trust any of the old cherished institutions in our country anymore.

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 07:30 PM (Oefw4)

231 "I take full responsibility" stopped meaning "I take full responsibility" around 15 years ago. Now it only means "I'm willing to say the words I take full responsibility."

Not entirely true: usually they 'take full responsibility' but deny doing anything wrong - see Janet Reno after Waco, for instance.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at May 15, 2014 07:30 PM (UYiBe)

232 Mad as hell- check
Investigation- check
Republicans politicizing/ phony scandal- check
Handful of low level employees- check
No one fired/ no one resigns/ no one in prison/ everyone's government checks and pensions secure- check

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Fast and Furious, IRS, Benghazi, Obamacare...

Maybe Judicial Watch can find some emails about this too so we can listen to Boenher talk about how Mad As Hell he is 18 months from now and start yet another investigation.

Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:30 PM (j0wOO)

233 @216 dr kill

Understand the senitment. I'm a vet Joined when Reagan was still POTUS. I had a teenage cousin ask me recently about joining up and told him to stay clear of it while the democrats are in power. Told him "they will get you killed for nothing as you find yourself in some 3rd world hole with an empty rifle."

None of them did.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 15, 2014 07:30 PM (4h33n)

234 Me ... I'm going to stay the course, and keep my kids out of the military. Who, exactly, should I send my little cherubs out to fight for - in this current society ? And who, exactly, should I expect to care for them when shit goes wrong ?

And who,exactly, is going to minister to those who choose to go into the military? Who is going to share the love of God with them, serve them communion, listen to their hearts break as they get that letter from home saying that grandma died, or their girlfriend has left them? Who is going to pray with them when they are lonely and in despair? Who is going to assure them of the truth of God's word when He says I will never leave you nor forsake you.

Men who choose the military as their mission, that's who. Men who see these soldiers as their flock.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 07:31 PM (oMKp3)

235 Political general. Like Wes Clark. The Army's the country's largest corporation, and like any corporation, there are top execs who earned it, and there are top execs who played games to get there.

Posted by: Bob at May 15, 2014 07:33 PM (mTM2n)

236 Men who choose the military as their mission, that's who. Men who see these soldiers as their flock.
Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 07:31 PM (oMKp3)

::: tears :::

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:33 PM (yz6yg)

237 I have a cousin who is stationed as a staff NCO at Bethesda in charge of a rehab platoon/medical retirement team. He has to hand walk every piece of paper thru the VA system by going down to McPhearson Square and doing it from the top instead of going thru the hospitals. He does it in uniform, he has requested permission to do it under arms (and was denied).

I find it hard to make fun of Corps for a few days after meeting up with him for beers.

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 07:34 PM (TETYm)

238 Okay, back to my old, despicable self. I wonder who I can screw over tomorrow?

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at May 15, 2014 07:35 PM (Dwehj)

239 I'm sure they'll manage to back this up till when GWB was President.... Bush's fault!

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at May 15, 2014 07:35 PM (9+ccr)

240 Look, Shinseki is a dirty rotten bureaucrat, and always has been, so he can eat a bushel of fart flavored dicks for all I care, but calling for his head isn't going to make any difference.

Everyone knows this.

The problem with the VA is, there are thousands and thousands of employees, and essentially none of them can be fired.

Everyone knows this too.

So fine, lop off Shinseki's head. Who cares, but don't pretend it's going to matter.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 07:36 PM (PEb5B)

241 I have a cousin who is stationed as a staff NCO at Bethesda in charge of a rehab platoon/medical retirement team. He has to hand walk every piece of paper thru the VA system by going down to McPhearson Square and doing it from the top instead of going thru the hospitals. He does it in uniform, he has requested permission to do it under arms (and was denied).
Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 07:34 PM (TETYm)

Last Friday I was at a retirement ceremony for a buddy (2 RGR BATT) who was a Platoon Sergeant in the Warrior Transition Brigade there. I'd bet those two knew each other.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:36 PM (yz6yg)

242 Grammie ...

... since I have a reasonable memory, I remember that you have a son on Active Duty.

So understand this ... he chooses to support a Government I no longer support.

If my door is ever broken down in the middle of the night, it won't be by Russians. It'll be by Americans ... serving this government.

I'm keeping my kids out of such a system. Pure and simple. In the words of Hillary ... I no longer support the mission.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 07:37 PM (v3BJ5)

243
My VA experience at the West Palm Beach facility has been great, but I can attest to the affirmative action hires that dominate the facility. The Federal Government employs substandard minorities on a regular basis to validate its commitment to diversity.

Over time, the great employees leave for full employment at better facilities, leaving the marginally qualified AA hires to carry the load. I believe the VA is considered a springboard to success for the terminally ignorant.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at May 15, 2014 07:37 PM (nQjHM)

244
216>> You should be grateful some one else's kids had the fortitude and the courage of conviction to serve so shit for brains like you can say let it burn and not fear for your life.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 15, 2014 07:37 PM (CLHps)

245
So understand this ... he chooses to support a Government I no longer support.

You're mistaken. He chooses to support his men.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 07:39 PM (oMKp3)

246 The VA has always been bad right? So this should not be all that surprising.... Sad, but probably true. This is a scandal that will get traction because the Dems can't bullshit their way out of it nor can they demonize the people involved.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 15, 2014 07:39 PM (jucos)

247 >>> Me ... I'm going to stay the course, and keep my kids out of the military. Who, exactly, should I send my little cherubs out to fight for - in this current society ? And who, exactly, should I expect to care for them when shit goes wrong ?
...

Couldn't agree more. With Democrats pulling the strings (and even most Republicans now) there is no way I would volunteer to be sent somewhere where people are shooting at me and my job is "outreach" while waiting for the idiots in Washington to get the latest poll results in.

I will never be a GWB fan, but I will always respect the man for his deep care and commitment to our military. No form letter. No robo signatures. It's a shame that during his last few years he got hamstrung by the media and Congress, leaving Iraq and Afghanistan to politics.

Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:40 PM (j0wOO)

248 Sean, I'm sure they did after the merger of Walter Reed into Bethesda the NCOs had to work together.

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 07:40 PM (TETYm)

249
"If my door is ever broken down in the middle of the night, it won't be by Russians. It'll be by Americans ... serving this government."

It won't be the military. It will be militarized agencies like DHS or the ATF.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 15, 2014 07:43 PM (CLHps)

250 "Me ... I'm going to stay the course, and keep my kids out of the military. Who, exactly, should I send my little cherubs out to fight for - in this current society ?"

Look, all due respect, but men and women join to serve their country, not whatever political animal happens to occupy the White House, and it's bullshit to rain on a sense of duty. I joined the Army in 1996, when the military was dealing with Bill Clinton's mismanagement. I didn't like him then, nor do I like the current leader of the country that I still serve, although in a different capacity. I felt I owed it to this country to do what I could to help protect it. Just because the President sucks doesn't mean this isn't a country worth fighting for.

Posted by: UGAdawg at May 15, 2014 07:43 PM (e/9tl)

251 If you want to consider the future of any pervasive government program, you only need to look to the VA, the BIA, and the ATF.

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 07:44 PM (TETYm)

252 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:24 PM (yz6yg)

Yes, well in a perfect world.

In an imperfect one I'd settle for clearing out the entire QA team (including the SES equivalents) and ending the insanity of having the people who write the QA standards have absolutely no contact with the MIG that enforces them.
(Not I'm not saying I'd put them over the MIG, but there has to be a better way to make them work together.)

Oh and I'd break up the damned Ethics team which holds it's primary offices in DC and Seattle.

Fuck that shit, come into the hinterlands with you.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:44 PM (HDwDg)

253 Just because the President sucks doesn't mean this isn't a country worth fighting for.
Posted by: UGAdawg at May 15, 2014 07:43 PM (e/9tl)

Sure it does.

If you're an emotional four-year old.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:45 PM (yz6yg)

254 245 You're mistaken. He chooses to support his men.

I'm sure you're right Grammie. If ever issued an order to enforce Domestic Martial Law - of course he'll reject such an order, and commit a UCMJ offense. His subordinates will back him 100%.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 07:45 PM (v3BJ5)

255 246 -

Most likely the most prolific serial killer in the history of the U.S. was a VA nurse. He worked in Ohio, couple other states, I believe.

You probably can't do what he did at most hospitals. He wasn't very good at hiding what he did, but he was good enough at realizing it was time to move on, until the last time, I guess.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 07:46 PM (PEb5B)

256 Oh and I'd break up the damned Ethics team which holds it's primary offices in DC and Seattle.

Fuck that shit, come into the hinterlands with you.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:44 PM (HDwDg)

If the VA in DC was moved, the unemployment rate in Anacostia and Prince George's County would rise by 10 percentage points.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:46 PM (yz6yg)

257 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:24 PM (yz6yg)

Oh and just for shits and grins when you fire Ellen Fox, be sure to declare her shitty ass trademark on IntegratedEthics now belongs to the US government.

Seriously, hiring someone who trademarked her "renowned system" should have been the first sign you were getting someone who couldn't hack it.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:47 PM (HDwDg)

258
I wore the uniform with PRIDE.

Yet when I see these young men and women serving today, it humbles me.

It physically hurts to see their betrayal under this administration.

For those who serve in order to maintain what is still there I offer my heartfelt thanks.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 15, 2014 07:47 PM (SAMxH)

259 let it burn

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 07:21 PM (Oefw4)
Yeah, Jane's kid volunteered so your precious snowflakes didn't get DRAFTED.
Somebody's got to do it, just not your's right???

Posted by: Portnoy at May 15, 2014 07:47 PM (8N1kd)

260 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:46 PM (yz6yg

I didn't say move the entire thing. But the fact is the people who ostensibly set the markers for "Quality of Care" don't ever set foot in half the places that VA actually operates.

I mean FFS, that's insane.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:48 PM (HDwDg)

261 I wore the uniform with PRIDE.

Yet when I see these young men and women serving today, it humbles me.

It physically hurts to see their betrayal under this administration.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 15, 2014 07:47 PM (SAMxH)

THIS.

And thank you for your service, one to another.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:48 PM (yz6yg)

262 45%? PTSD vets returning from the ME+an aging retired generation from service in the 50's and 60's+an incompetent AA staff of thousands+a dwindling source of funds for aforementioned vets...

"What's your assessment of this alert?"

Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 15, 2014 07:49 PM (vucd9)

263 I wore the uniform with PRIDE.

Yet when I see these young men and women serving today, it humbles me.

It physically hurts to see their betrayal under this administration.

For those who serve in order to maintain what is still there I offer my heartfelt thanks.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 15, 2014 07:47 PM (SAMxH)
___________
^^THIS^^
Todays military men are better than I can ever hope to be. I respect them all.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 15, 2014 07:49 PM (jucos)

264 I didn't say move the entire thing. But the fact is the people who ostensibly set the markers for "Quality of Care" don't ever set foot in half the places that VA actually operates.

I mean FFS, that's insane.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:48 PM (HDwDg)

I know you didn't.

I'm saying that. They have completely forgotten their mission. They need to get back in touch with it.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:49 PM (yz6yg)

265 well....it's actually adults that serve in the military so if you are ordering your adult children around telling them what to do and not do...your children are fucking wimps and you are a control freak dr. kill........

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 15, 2014 07:49 PM (u8GsB)

266 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:48 PM (yz6yg)

If my not-yet-existing kid(s) ever join the military I'll be incredibly proud of them.

I'll also be worried sick that some leftard politician is going to knife them in the back.

I don't find this to be a contradiction.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:49 PM (HDwDg)

267 Jeepers, I leave for a few days for a job interview and come back to find the place full of bags of used douche fluid... most of whom are probably .gov agent provocateurs, previously banned socks, and/or now unemployed Slate/Salon hacks.

Like there is a difference between the three. Or perhaps they are all one and the same.

Duck and cover dildo-boys, the night shift here is much less polite than the day crew...

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 15, 2014 07:51 PM (W7zKe)

268 254
I'm sure you're right Grammie. If ever issued an order to enforce Domestic Martial Law - of course he'll reject such an order, and commit a UCMJ offense. His subordinates will back him 100%.
Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 07:45 PM (v3BJ5)

Whether they would back him or not would be immaterial to him. He plays to an audience of One. That 'one' is not the government.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 07:51 PM (oMKp3)

269 I really hate to say this and sincerely apologize to anyone who are themselves or have friends or family who are current or former military.

Earlier in my career, I use to move anyone who was former military immediately to the top of my interview list. Not out of a sense of patriotism or debt, though both are valid. It was because I grew up learning the the military drilled discipline, responsibility, teamwork, and similar and hard to find skills into it's members.

Unfortunately, since the Clinton years (or so it seems to me), I've found the the majority of former military folks I've interviewed or hired have none of these skills. In fact, they have few skills at all and are as bad or worse than DMV employees in their sense of entitlement and lack of anything resembling work ethic or responsibility.

There are notable exceptions and friends that I've talked to about this. Each one has grumbled that the military isn't what it used to be, primarily due to the PC'ing down of everything and political interference.

It's really sad, but when I see what's going on with all of the increasing "inclusiveness" policies and emphasis on "fairness" and "breaking glass ceilings" related to the military, I can't help but think that it's become little more than yet another government dole program to hand checks to the unemployable.

Again, I apologize. I hate it, but it's what I see.

Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:51 PM (j0wOO)

270 You mean to say that government run healthcare is an utter clusterfuck that yields horrible result?

Who on earth could have seen THAT coming? Why that was completely unpredictable.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 07:51 PM (XnALK)

271 Hey scogg dog you made your point. Now shut the fuck up and stop impugning the motives and morality of everyone who served or serves

And as for let it burn?

You first internet warrior

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 07:52 PM (zOTsN)

272 265 -

Yep. When I signed up, I took an oath. My parents didn't take the oath. I did.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 07:52 PM (PEb5B)

273 If my not-yet-existing kid(s) ever join the military I'll be incredibly proud of them.

I'll also be worried sick that some leftard politician is going to knife them in the back.

I don't find this to be a contradiction.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:49 PM (HDwDg)

Neither do I.

I took an oath, quite literally, to an idea. The idea embodied in the U.S Constitution. That's why many (not all) still take the oath. Once there, they remain for their buddies. Saying "fuck it" means that you've quit on at least 50% of the U.S. population.

I'm not quite down wit' 'dat.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:52 PM (yz6yg)

274 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:49 PM (yz6yg)

Oh got it. "Go further" I thought you were saying something else

.

You know, given the complexities of the people the VA has to serve an entirely different System model is probably necessitated anyway.

Rather than the top down model, something where a central organization facilities and provides standards for hospitals that largely maintain local control might fit them better.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 07:54 PM (HDwDg)

275 Fuck Tapper. He's a total piece of shit. I have no clue as to how he got this reputation as an objective truth seeker.

Fuck him because his wife was the regional director of the biggest abortion mill in the world

Posted by: Albie Damned at May 15, 2014 07:54 PM (6o1z8)

276 "Just because the President sucks doesn't mean this isn't a country worth fighting for.
"

Let it be noted that there is PLENTY more about modern America that sucks, and sucks rancid donkey balls, than just the current President.

There is a classic analytical error of assuming that problems are due to an easily corrected single-point failure when they are in fact not, when the failures are instead multiple, dispersed and difficult.

In this case, there are such failures, severe and probably lethal ones, all up and down the length, breadth, and depth of the former USA, now the USA-SSR.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 07:54 PM (noWW6)

277 Why does DoD allow anyone to out process without having the VA paperwork in place? Every division should have a zombie admin company handling transition, phone musters, donuts every day, classes, ...

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 07:55 PM (TETYm)

278
It's really sad, but when I see what's going on with all of the increasing "inclusiveness" policies and emphasis on "fairness" and "breaking glass ceilings" related to the military, I can't help but think that it's become little more than yet another government dole program to hand checks to the unemployable.

Again, I apologize. I hate it, but it's what I see.
Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 07:51 PM (j0wOO)

I would not say you're wrong. (Especially since it's your personal experience). I would, however, ask that the next time you have a vet interviewing, you ask what their MOS was before you dismiss them out of hand.

If it was a combat arms MOS (whether or not they've actually seen combat) you can rest assured that they are far less likely to hold the "me first" attitude you've seem to run into.

Nothing breeds that out of you faster than service in a combat arms branch.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:56 PM (yz6yg)

279 265 well....it's actually adults that serve in the military so if you are ordering your adult children around telling them what to do and not do...your children are fucking wimps and you are a control freak dr. kill........

When they're 18 ... they're on their own. But up until 17 years 364 days - I'm blocking anything regarding joining the military.

I guess they're wimps. I'm a control freak. And a four year old.

But for the rest of you ... Bannion ... know yourselves out. Send all your progeny out in service of this government.

I'm not.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 07:57 PM (v3BJ5)

280 Looks like your vets will be getting the Liverpool Care Pathway.

Posted by: The British National Health Service at May 15, 2014 07:58 PM (K1sEu)

281 That's a big relief scogg dog

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 07:58 PM (zOTsN)

282 Concerned about interviewing a vet & their attitude about doing the job?

Ask them their opinion on relaxing appearance regs & standards for troops with naturally kinky hair.

That'll tell you all you need to know right there.

Posted by: Some Dude at May 15, 2014 08:00 PM (W7zKe)

283 It's not just service of this government, it's service of
this country. That's a big difference.

Look, I know I've been as LIB-y as anyone, but there are still good men and women who are fighting for the values that we all hold, and though I question that we will be victorious, I don't think surrender is the best solution.

Hell, if for no other reason than it is good for conservative minded people to be well trained in the art of war in case shit DOES really hit the fan.

Posted by: Lauren at May 15, 2014 08:00 PM (ejehg)

284 Damiano, you should reset your perspective. A decade of war has chased out the deadwood.

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:00 PM (TETYm)

285 271 Hey thunderb ...

... Using the phrase "shut the fuck up", and then calling me an "internet warrior" ...

Irony - dig it.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:00 PM (v3BJ5)

286
Let it be noted that there is PLENTY more about
modern America that sucks, and sucks rancid donkey balls, than just the
current President.

There is a classic analytical error of
assuming that problems are due to an easily corrected single-point
failure when they are in fact not, when the failures are instead
multiple, dispersed and difficult.

In this case, there are such
failures, severe and probably lethal ones, all up and down the length,
breadth, and depth of the former USA, now the USA-SSR.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 07:54 PM (noWW6)

And this is exactly right. The problem is not that we have a fool for a ruler, the problem is that we have an electorate capable of electing such a fool.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 08:00 PM (XnALK)

287 "I took an oath, quite literally, to an idea. The idea embodied in the U.S Constitution."

When a country turns its back on its constitutional principles, what then of fealty to defend that constitution? Does it any longer equate to defending or supporting the country in question?

Seems to me that the rational thing to do is instead get to work on creating successor countries, either _de novo_ or via secession, which embody and obey the original set of principles. Not in wasting time and energy trying to patch up the failed old wreck that's taking on water.

A wreck with a crew half of whom can't stand the other half, I note.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 08:01 PM (noWW6)

288 It needs to be said again, But Bernie Sanders is the last person who needs to be overseeing the investigation into this.

I don't care how much he's done for Vets in the past (if anything? I dunno, the news pretends he does)
His commitment to a single payer system means he'll want to brush this shit under the rung.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 08:02 PM (HDwDg)

289 either _de novo_

like Lex Luther in the middle of the Atlantic, or just conquer Canada like the Finians tried to do?

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:03 PM (TETYm)

290 278 -

I met my share of jerks and loafers, but there are still some guys I served with who would put their lives on the line for me, and I would for them. All these years later.

No offense to the remfs, I didn't serve with them, so I wouldn't know.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:03 PM (PEb5B)

291 Scogg dog you have no business telling Grammie winger who her son is or what he believes. But you have sprayed what you think all over this thread like a drunk college freshman

So yeah

Shut the fuck up

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:03 PM (zOTsN)

292 I can write Bernie Sander's recommendations right now and save everyone some time: more money and an additionally layer of management.

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:05 PM (TETYm)

293
"But for the rest of you ... Bannion ... know yourselves out. Send all your progeny out in service of this government.

I'm not."

Lotta words to say #Candyass. Because ideals like honor, courage and commitment, and mottos like "Semper Fidelis" are just words to be interpreted to suit your political opinions and 'beliefs'.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 15, 2014 08:05 PM (CLHps)

294 "Concerned about interviewing a vet their attitude about doing the job? Ask them their opinion on relaxing appearance regs standards for troops with naturally kinky hair."

Appearance regs, that's one thing. The hair, oh boy, quite another.

Maybe before you ask a question of that sort you need to run it by HR.

Any HR professional I know would have an instant shit hemorrhage of lawsuit and EEOC fear at the thought of asking an interview question relating to ethnic hair. Or really any ethnically specific topic. No way, no how.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 08:05 PM (noWW6)

295 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 15, 2014 07:56 PM (yz6yg)

I've paid attention to the MOS and you're correct. I don't dismiss former military out of hand. I just stopped expecting more from them than anyone else.

Again, there are exceptions. Generally though, even the exceptions, IMO, would be the outstanding people they are whether they'd join up or not.

One other bad experience. I was doing some hiring for entry level jobs and had a boyfriend/ girlfriend come in to apply. Two seconds of looking at them and I was sure that they were meth heads. For the hell of it, I interviewed them anyhow and took extra care of the usual drug prescreen questions. Sure enough, both admitted to drug issues and related problems.

I didn't hire them. They walked out of my office, down the street, and into the Army recruiting office. 2 weeks later found out that they were headed to basic training.

Posted by: Damiano at May 15, 2014 08:05 PM (j0wOO)

296 Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:05 PM (TETYm)

He keeps ranting that we evil right wingers want to privatize the VA.

Which for me is mostly true because of how fucking broken it is

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 08:06 PM (HDwDg)

297 Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:05 PM (TETYm)

He keeps ranting that we evil right wingers want to privatize the VA.

Which for me is mostly true because of how fucking broken it is

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 08:06 PM (HDwDg)

298 For that matter you have no business acting like anyone who is a vet or on active duty is some sort of brown shirt. There are blogs for people who believe that. Go to them

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:06 PM (zOTsN)

299 My kids are pretty fucking far from special snowflakes. But they do know better than to think that any sort of personal gesture such as dying or voting for your country will make any difference in where we are headed.

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 08:06 PM (Oefw4)

300 Thunderb ... you are one hell of an Internet Warrior.

That's two Shut the Fuck Ups to me in a few minutes.

You are the man. I'd be scared ... if I gave a shit.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:07 PM (v3BJ5)

301
That oath we took has NO expiration date.

It is as binding now as when it was first sworn.

The obligation to fulfill it to the best of your ability binds every bit as strongly.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 15, 2014 08:07 PM (SAMxH)

302 And as for the military accepting everyone, there was just a story this week that only 20% of applicants are accepted. The rest do not meet the qualifications.

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:09 PM (zOTsN)

303 Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 08:10 PM (Oefw4)

304 Yes. Not voting and doing nothing. Awesome resistance

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:11 PM (zOTsN)

305 Just clicked on my NHL app. NO GAMES SCHEDULED for tonight. Now what am I gonna watch? I can't find a baseball game either.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 08:11 PM (oMKp3)

306 here's the thing.....even if there were no secret lists.....there were not enough dr's to see all of the patients......the environment at the phx va was toxic for a long time....the new person who replaced the old person were political appts with no clue as to how to manage people or a hospital....and they were oh so sooooper smart that they were trying to reinvent the wheel instead of leaning on the people who had been there for years and knew how to run the place.....medical staff were leaving in droves because they were being over worked .....all in order to get the head lady her bonus......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 15, 2014 08:11 PM (u8GsB)

307 Hey Scogg.... why don't you give it a rest. Please.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 15, 2014 08:11 PM (jucos)

308 I've experienced and seen some good care through the VA.

And a whole lot that was not.

Good, well-intentioned people cannot make up for the bureaucracy and self-serving uncivil servants that naturally gravitate to the VA, due to it's near infinite supply of low-vis admin corridors and fellow slurpers.

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 15, 2014 08:12 PM (W7zKe)

309 Thunderb.... Save it. He's just trolling you.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 15, 2014 08:12 PM (CLHps)

310 Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:05 PM (TETYm)

He keeps ranting that we evil right wingers want to privatize the VA.

Which for me is mostly true because of how fucking broken it is

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!)

Sounds like a great idea. Phase it in and build it off of TriCare, they have a shiny new building that needs some work product produced.

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:13 PM (TETYm)

311 "They walked out of my office, down the street, and into the Army
recruiting office. 2 weeks later found out that they were headed to
basic training."

Darn few meth tweaker types are going to successfully make it all the way into uniformed service. They'll pop a piss test or fail a background check early on in the process.

And anyone who stays in the service for any length of time is going to find it hard to keep up their drug habit.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 08:13 PM (noWW6)

312 Ah, ah, when, ah, I ah am engaged in ah, trans, ah, forming, ah, ah, ah the evil ah, of, america, I ah, have to, ah let ah, some ah folks, ah, die, in ah, order, ah, ah, ah to make ah, a more ah, per, ah, fect socialist ah, new america ah, in my, ah, own, ahimage. Ah, ah, ah I, ah, am break ah, ing, a few, ah dead corpsesmen to ah, ah, ah, to ah, make, ah, ah, more ah, humble, ah united, ah, ah, states, ah, of marxist, ah, ah, utopia ah, om, ah, let.

Posted by: Playing Spades with Reggie at May 15, 2014 08:14 PM (7xlvk)

313 307 Hey Scogg.... why don't you give it a rest. Please.

I appreciate the sentiment. I really do. But no ... not giving it a rest.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:16 PM (v3BJ5)

314 Look, the President can not do anything about this until he reads about it in the newspapers. You can't really expect Obama to know what is going on in the Obama Administration.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at May 15, 2014 08:16 PM (OWjjx)

315 In this situation a REAL leader concerned about vets would say: I intend to resign but first I will not leave this bag of excrement for the next VA Secretary. I am going to get to the bottom of this, all leaves are cancelled, balls will be removed and if you don't have balls (and perhaps if you do) grab your ankles. I do not intend to take the time to distinguish between the incompetent from the merely unfortunate.

Oh, and by the way all of you on the House and Senate Veterans Affairs Oversight Committees? I intend to look into what you REMFs were doing.

I will then resign.

That is all.

Posted by: Jack at May 15, 2014 08:16 PM (5zRzY)

316 311 -

Yeah, I'm declaring b.s. on that one too.

Lots of trolling on this thread, not all of it from trolls. Some of it, yes, but not all of it.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:17 PM (PEb5B)

317 But they do know better than to think that any sort of personal gesture
such as dying or voting for your country will make any difference

Newsletter?

Posted by: Hanoi Jane at May 15, 2014 08:17 PM (Dwehj)

318 Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 08:13 PM (TETYm

I would be slightly cautious about that though.

The VA here handles a fair number of what could be called "hard cases." vets that are homeless or nearly so (and from what I've heard from some of the docs who work there, they often fight help to get them to a better place.)

I could see one of private hospitals simply dumping those patients out back.

In fact, IIRC, one of the hospitals recently was accused of doing just that to non-vet cases that were similar.

This is not to say that I think it'd be a bad thing, it is to say I'd want at least *some* oversight to ensure vets get the care the both need and deserve.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 08:18 PM (HDwDg)

319 313 -

Please don't. You are being a jerk.

People around here don't forget easily.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:18 PM (PEb5B)

320 Scoggdog

Posted by: Who goes nazi? at May 15, 2014 08:19 PM (LOEos)

321 The sad thing is that justice will never happen.

The SCoaMF won't prosecute their own.

Any GOPer won't do it for fear of the Dems doing even worse to them.

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 15, 2014 08:19 PM (K1sEu)

322 My two cents- since I got out I've made the conscious decision to not use the VA because I had employer insurance and didn't feel like adding to the fiscal burden on the country...Now as far as this don't enlist now and not letting my kid enlist-fuck you. You don't do it to defend the government! Wth kind of dipshit thinks that's why you join?

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at May 15, 2014 08:21 PM (2+pvn)

323 The new dodge continues...

'its under investigation, so we can't talk about it"..

Of course, the investigation never ends.... so they don't have to talk about it...

And the media, gives them a pass...

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 15, 2014 08:21 PM (84gbM)

324 Posted by: The Political Hat at May 15, 2014 08:19 PM (K1sEu)

Which is odd.

Because Veteran's care used to be a bipartisan issue.

I mean FFS, what voter wouldn't support vets?!

Alas as I've said, the Dems have this "Government Run Healthcare never fails" myth they have to cling to, even if they abandon those who deserve our help the most.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 15, 2014 08:22 PM (HDwDg)

325 Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 08:06 PM (Oefw4)

So again...some one's gotta do it. Just not yours...

Or is there another option???

Posted by: Portnoy at May 15, 2014 08:22 PM (8N1kd)

326 Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at May 15, 2014 08:21 PM (2+pvn)

Retired Navy meself... Son is Active Duty Navy stationed in Guam...

If you have any morals, or honor.... the current military regime will try to destroy you.

If your kids want to enlist... make sure they understand they are about to eat a LOT of shit.

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 15, 2014 08:24 PM (84gbM)

327 Dude....this stuff was like 2 years ago or something.

Posted by: Obama White House Excuse Maker at May 15, 2014 08:24 PM (OWjjx)

328 What we need right now is a really good cat video.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 08:24 PM (oMKp3)

329 319 Please don't. You are being a jerk. People around here don't forget easily.

Then let's remember this shit correctly. Those that are hurt should be taken care of. As a nation, we rarely do.

And I'm keeping my kids out of this shit. You want to send yours ? Have at it.

Quote me.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:25 PM (v3BJ5)

330 "I take full responsibility for what happened in your mouth. Nobody is more outraged than I am over this unforgivable injustice."

Posted by: Dig Dug at May 15, 2014 08:26 PM (i4XvR)

331 What we need right now is a really good cat video.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 08:24 PM (oMKp3)

********

Amen. Got here late and am seriously disheartened by some of the posts here.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at May 15, 2014 08:26 PM (ojnk6)

332 Whio.com has a short video of a kitten that a weatherman found in the wreckage of a tornado.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 15, 2014 08:26 PM (z/Ubi)

333 302 And as for the military accepting everyone, there was just a story this week that only 20% of applicants are accepted. The rest do not meet the qualifications.

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:09 PM (zOTsN)

Yeah... funny how my Son, who has tested out as a Genius... had to wait a YEAR to enlist...

The minimum wait for the USN was 6 months... and with the drawdown??? with them actively kicking out people??? I'm sure the wait is even longer now.

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 15, 2014 08:27 PM (84gbM)

334 I'm sure you're right Grammie. If ever issued an order to enforce Domestic Martial Law - of course he'll reject such an order, and commit a UCMJ offense. His subordinates will back him 100%

Scoggdog

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:27 PM (zOTsN)

335 Shinseki has the blood of every veteran that was denied care through the VA during this mess. Sleep well you POS.

Posted by: Ms.M at May 15, 2014 08:28 PM (+qScL)

336 How about a good chicken video?

Posted by: Hanoi Jane at May 15, 2014 08:29 PM (Dwehj)

337 That's a good quote Thunderb. I stand by it.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:29 PM (v3BJ5)

338 "I could see one of private hospitals simply dumping those patients out back. In fact, IIRC, one of the hospitals recently was accused of doing just that to non-vet cases that were similar."

In fact, IIRC, one Michelle Obama used to get paid over three hundred thousand dollars a year to quietly oversee just such patient dumping by the U of Chicago Medical Center.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 15, 2014 08:30 PM (noWW6)

339 337 That's a good quote Thunderb. I stand by it.
Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:29 PM (v3BJ5)

You stand by the implication that my son would turn on the American people and become a brown shirted thug, because, orders?

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 08:31 PM (oMKp3)

340 You boys like my new nic, Scoggdog?

Posted by: Palin Steele at May 15, 2014 08:31 PM (0FSuD)

341 329 -

You don't seem to understand. The military doesn't take kids. If your kids are kids, nobody wants them. If they are adults, you can't stop them.

If you want to express your anger with this Administration, you could do so without sounding so illogical.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:31 PM (PEb5B)

342 *prays to the ewok gods for a new post*

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 15, 2014 08:32 PM (oFCZn)

343 This is a different country than it was even 15 years ago. Wake up and see.

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 08:33 PM (Oefw4)

344 18
Name one liberal hack douchebag who has had the balls to resign.

(sits back and folds hands)

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:12 PM (x3YFz)

====
does that mean my hopes they will commit ritual suicide are out of the question?

Posted by: jc at May 15, 2014 08:33 PM (PlzOe)

345 *prays to the ewok gods for a new post*

Next you all will be wanting t-shirts.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at May 15, 2014 08:33 PM (OWjjx)

346 337 That's a good quote Thunderb. I stand by it.
Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:29 PM (v3BJ5)

********

The fact that you are conflating the Institution that is our Military with the current Administration in D.C. is mind bogglingly idiotic.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at May 15, 2014 08:33 PM (ojnk6)

347 I stand by it.

At this point, what fucking difference could that make?

Posted by: Ready for Hillary!!11!! at May 15, 2014 08:35 PM (Dwehj)

348 Jake Tapper asks the WH Chief of Staff what can be done about the VA's (and government's generally, I'd argue) "culture of no accountability."

At this point in time, nothing. If there isn't any accountability starting at the TOP, there's certainly no reason to expect any lower down on the ladder...

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at May 15, 2014 08:35 PM (3/34s)

349 Fucktardery comes and goes; honor and duty are forever.

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 15, 2014 08:35 PM (W7zKe)

350 We're living in a criminal world. Leftists can do whatever they want, and get away with it, every single time.

Posted by: Null at May 15, 2014 08:36 PM (xjpRj)

351 I have appointed a team of investigators lead by former football star OJ Simpson to help find the real killers.

Posted by: Shinseki the Sh*t Sack at May 15, 2014 08:36 PM (BmmBm)

352 At the risk of sounding disagreeable, I don't like scoggdog.

Posted by: Ronster at May 15, 2014 08:36 PM (GhNj1)

353 I need a drink

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:37 PM (zOTsN)

354 If God wills me to put up a new post, I will put up a new post.

Posted by: Content Manager at AOSHQ at May 15, 2014 08:39 PM (OWjjx)

355 I find it quite telling that you question whether Grammie's son would turn on his fellow Americans and at the same time say you've taught your kids, who you say are a-ok not to join the same military. Are you sure your little darlings wouldn't turn on their fellow Americans? If they are as upstanding as you claim this shouldn't be an issue.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at May 15, 2014 08:39 PM (2+pvn)

356 339 You stand by the implication that my son would turn on the American people and become a brown shirted thug, because, orders?

I stand by the statement that ... when push comes to shove ... enemies "foreign and domestic" will turn domestic really damned quick. And soldiers do as their told.

As do BATF agents, BLM agents, FBI agents, and the like. Do you people think their parents sit around and go "Damn, I raised a Brown Shirt" ? Do you think they're any less proud ?

How do y'all think this all got to this point in the first place ? Helpful Hint ... Blind Loyalty to Institutions.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:39 PM (v3BJ5)

357 Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 08:31 PM (oMKp3)

ignore him....he's a fool....let's do jello shots

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 15, 2014 08:39 PM (u8GsB)

358 353 I need a drink

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:37 PM (zOTsN)

*looks at watch in quiet desperation*

Too soon. Too soon.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 15, 2014 08:40 PM (oFCZn)

359 Evening all

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 15, 2014 08:40 PM (EbbhB)

360 348 -

I believe it actually kinda works in reverse these days. Government departments and other entities are self-sustaining, and the so-called leadership in Washington really has no control over how the organization works.

They collect their large paychecks, say words, and basically don't run anything.

So yeah, if you have schedulers at VA hospitals who don't keep track of which patients they've scheduled and which ones they haven't, and falsify paperwork to make it look like they have, it's not like the Secretary can do anything to change that.

Again, if you can't fire these people, and you can't, this is the kind of service you are going to get, and yes, it's going to cost lives.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:40 PM (PEb5B)

361 "bogglingly"..."Fucktardery".... I LOVE this place!

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 15, 2014 08:41 PM (CLHps)

362 ignore him....he's a fool....let's do jello shots

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 15, 2014 08:39 PM (u8GsB)

_____________
With carrot shavings?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 15, 2014 08:41 PM (jucos)

363 Again, if you can't fire these people, and you
can't, this is the kind of service you are going to get, and yes, it's
going to cost lives.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:40 PM (PEb5B)

Why are they fire proof?

Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist at May 15, 2014 08:41 PM (M+evy)

364 .let's do jello shots

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 15, 2014 08:39 PM (u8GsB)

Best suggestion I've had all day! Cheers!

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 08:42 PM (oMKp3)

365 Of course, being a mind numbed kill bot, I am unable to think for myself and make any decisions, let alone any moral decision.

Therefore, my beverage will be dictated to me by the horde. I will be unable to refuse or think for myself

What is the drink of the night?

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:42 PM (zOTsN)

366 We think we've found a keeper!

Posted by: Media Matters at May 15, 2014 08:42 PM (Dwehj)

367 With carrot shavings?
Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 15, 2014 08:41 PM (jucos)

Ah-Ha! I knew it. Your one of those damn Luthern terrorist with your veggies in jello and 3 bean salad treason.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at May 15, 2014 08:42 PM (OWjjx)

368
With carrot shavings?

Is there any other kind?

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 08:42 PM (oMKp3)

369 Working can't drink.

;(

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 15, 2014 08:43 PM (W7zKe)

370 356 -

You are doubling down on your foolishness.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:44 PM (PEb5B)

371 NGU. Thank Odin you are here!

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 08:44 PM (zOTsN)

372 Working can't drink.

;(
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 15, 2014 08:43 PM (W7zKe)

*******

Ehhh, join in spirit. Body shots next.....

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at May 15, 2014 08:44 PM (ojnk6)

373 What we all need is some pointy elbow cheerleaders.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at May 15, 2014 08:45 PM (OWjjx)

374 You shall show Blind Loyalty to my Institution, and in return my Institution shall not emit Precious Bodily Fluids in your Loyalty Receptacle!

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 15, 2014 08:46 PM (W7zKe)

375 372 -

I gave up booze about a decade ago. But I can pretend. I do remember the taste. Both going down and coming back up again.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:46 PM (PEb5B)

376 I've been waiting so long for a new thread I might as well be at a VA Hospital.

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 08:46 PM (MKpBT)

377 373 -

You aren't going to like the new cheerleaders.

Posted by: Mike Sam's New NFL at May 15, 2014 08:47 PM (PEb5B)

378 370 You are doubling down on your foolishness.

Then refute it. Make such a double-down, brass-balled, stone-cold lead-pipe lock argument that everyone else reads it and goes "Oh, well, YEAH".

Because all I've seen so far is ... you're making me feel bad about my favorite group, so SHUT UP.

Sound familiar ? Like a group you like to bitch about, maybe ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:47 PM (v3BJ5)

379 *opens door to thread*

*peers in*

Nope, not gonna do it.

*quietly closes door*

Posted by: DC in (Location TBD) at May 15, 2014 08:48 PM (Pvcl5)

380 376 I've been waiting so long for a new thread I might as well be at a VA Hospital.

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 08:46 PM (MKpBT)

Heh

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 15, 2014 08:48 PM (oFCZn)

381 And I hate military dentists.

Posted by: tangonine at May 15, 2014 06:24 PM (x3YFz)
The worst pain I ever experienced in my life was due to a poorly trained navy dental tech the Doc handed a routine cleaning over to. I swear that if I had known the nuclear launch codes I would have sung like a canary.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at May 15, 2014 08:48 PM (G/s6B)

382 Working can't drink.

;(
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 15, 2014 08:43 PM (W7zKe)

+++++++++++
Pshawwwww

Posted by: Phoenix VA Administrator at May 15, 2014 08:48 PM (jucos)

383 376
I've been waiting so long for a new thread I might as well be at a VA Hospital.

Posted by: S. Muldoon at May 15, 2014 08:46 PM (MKpBT)

you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

Posted by: Eagles at May 15, 2014 08:48 PM (M+evy)

384 378 -

Nope. Not going to refute it. I'm just going to remember your nic.

Have a nice day. Bye.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 08:49 PM (PEb5B)

385 Awesome. What could be more productive than pondering who will or won't do what in the event of a civil war.

Pro tip - if it comes to that there will be plenty of blood for everyone to enjoy. And the one who kills the other will always have a clear conscience knowing he's the one REALLY defending the Constitution.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at May 15, 2014 08:49 PM (uhMMS)

386 >>Why are they fire proof?
Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist

Government employee.

Posted by: Aviator at May 15, 2014 08:49 PM (3rrMW)

387 377 Thanks for that horrific thought planted in my brain. I thought I had come up with every bad thing that the homosexual player could cause. Hell no, you had to add to it. Thanks for nothing.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at May 15, 2014 08:50 PM (2+pvn)

388 The question as to whether or not the members of our armed forces would turn Nazi is not a foolish thing to contemplate.

It is my understanding that in Tianamen Square, the original military units assigned to the area wouldn't act, so the Government brought in units from farther out districts and told them it was an insurrection against the government, and it needed to be put down, which they did.

Do not ignore the probability that the government will tell our military that evil Tea Party militias who hate the government and are filled with Timothy McVeighs, are killing innocent people and need to be stopped, and it is their duty to restore order by shooting all the "terrorists."

I like to think our armed forces are filled with people who know right from wrong, but I am also cognizant of the fact that Obama has been purging officers and cowing the rest.

I do not know what will happen in a case of martial law here in America, and it isn't silly to consider the possibility that we might end up with a brownshirt problem.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 08:50 PM (bb5+k)

389 384 Nope. Not going to refute it. I'm just going to remember your nic.

Mutual BurtTC ... mutual.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 08:50 PM (v3BJ5)

390 We've got a sale going on, so hurry over to our website!

Posted by: Lace Wigs at May 15, 2014 08:51 PM (0FSuD)

391 You aren't going to like the new cheerleaders.

That's not fair. We've been practicing real hard.

Posted by: The Chippendales at May 15, 2014 08:51 PM (Dwehj)

392 The worst pain I ever experienced in my life was due to a poorly trained navy dental tech the Doc handed a routine cleaning over to.

Were you asked if it was "safe"?

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at May 15, 2014 08:51 PM (3/34s)

393 We've been practicing real hard.

I wish I didn't SWYDT

Posted by: Burn the Witch at May 15, 2014 08:52 PM (G/s6B)

394 Everyone should be thankful Shinseki didn't nod off while he was apologizing and accepting responsibility. I am grateful he came out of his coma for the hearing.

Posted by: Lester at May 15, 2014 08:52 PM (2UPXV)

395 At the rate you're going, your going tomneed a spreadsheet for all the "mutual" nics, Son.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at May 15, 2014 08:53 PM (ojnk6)

396 Scogg Dog is one of our defective units

Posted by: Machines For Sale at May 15, 2014 08:54 PM (jucos)

397 Government employee.

Posted by: Aviator at May 15, 2014 08:49 PM (3rrMW)

Seriously? You can't fire a govt employee? Didn't Bush shitcan a bunch of em?(If memory is right...no guarantee)

Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist at May 15, 2014 08:54 PM (M+evy)

398 i'd like to see this sorry fucker slowly strangled in public, with a black beret.

(i'll donate mine to the cause. )

what a useless piece of shit he is.

Posted by: redc1c4 at May 15, 2014 08:56 PM (q+fqH)

399 343
This is a different country than it was even 15 years ago. Wake up and see.

Posted by: dr kill at May 15, 2014 08:33 PM (Oefw4)

-----
Semantic difference, but I don't know that we are so much different as we used to be as much as being further along in paying the price for being the way we have long been. American's love the idea of lower spending, but not so much that they like cutting anything specific. Much like I love the idea of losing 20 pounds, but not so much that I want to cut out pizza, chicken, ice cream or beer.We want it all and don't want to pay for it, so we have these massive government programs loaded with bureaucracy operating in an environment where the turnip is dry. These programs are all looking to cut corners at our expense, and government will never have the same level of accountability that a private enterprise will when they put the screws to us.

Posted by: Dave S. at May 15, 2014 08:56 PM (UvR6d)

400 Do not ignore the probability that the government will tell our military that evil Tea Party militias who hate the government and are filled with Timothy McVeighs, are killing innocent people and need to be stopped, and it is their duty to restore order by shooting all the "terrorists."

Southern troops won't do it. Not even black soldiers.

"Integrated" Yankee and black troops (the latter completely indoctrinated into how racist we are) - *they* would be the ones called upon. There's a reason the show "Falling Skies" features the Second Massachusetts and not, say, a West Virginia regiment.

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at May 15, 2014 08:57 PM (30eLQ)

401 >>Didn't Bush shitcan a bunch of em?

Those were political appointees.

Posted by: Aviator at May 15, 2014 08:57 PM (3rrMW)

402 Tonight on MSNBC: Just miles from your doorstep hundreds of men are given weapons and trained to kill. The government call it the "Army", but a more alarmist name would be - "The Killbot Factory."

Posted by: Rachel Maddow at May 15, 2014 08:58 PM (uhMMS)

403 I used to be a killbot, but I drifted.

Posted by: Mae Westbot at May 15, 2014 09:01 PM (W7zKe)

404 Jell-O shots with carrot savings all around!

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 09:02 PM (zOTsN)

405 396 Scogg Dog is one of our defective units

Maybe.

But y'all bitch about the BLM squatting down on a rancher. You bitch about the IRS cracking down on tax-exempts. You bitch about every link on this site showing a metro police department using excessive force.

But hey ... when it comes to THE MILITARY. Why, that's different. They'd never, ever, ever just do what they're told. Why, hell no. Those boys and girls are steeped to the bone in a literal interpretation of the Constitution.

Again ... and AGAIN ... more medical care for wounded veterans. And I want less soldiers turning into vets. Because I want less toys for the next Clinton / Bush / Obama.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 09:03 PM (v3BJ5)

406 I'll take 6. Hold the shavings.

Posted by: Ronster at May 15, 2014 09:03 PM (GhNj1)

407 401
>>Didn't Bush shitcan a bunch of em?

Those were political appointees.

Posted by: Aviator at May 15, 2014 08:57 PM (3rrMW)

Understood.

Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist at May 15, 2014 09:04 PM (M+evy)

408 Semantic difference, but I don't know that we are so
much different as we used to be as much as being further along in
paying the price for being the way we have long been. American's love
the idea of lower spending, but not so much that they like cutting
anything specific. Much like I love the idea of losing 20 pounds, but
not so much that I want to cut out pizza, chicken, ice cream or beer.We
want it all and don't want to pay for it, so we have these massive
government programs loaded with bureaucracy operating in an environment
where the turnip is dry. These programs are all looking to cut corners
at our expense, and government will never have the same level of
accountability that a private enterprise will when they put the screws
to us.

Posted by: Dave S. at May 15, 2014 08:56 PM (UvR6d)

I hear this argument from time to time but I never understand it? Department of Energy? What is it good for? Department of Education? Worse than useless, it's actually detrimental. The EPA needs to be cut back greatly, and so does the IRS.

I don't want it, and I don't want to pay for it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 09:05 PM (bb5+k)

409 Where is Willow when you need her.

Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist at May 15, 2014 09:05 PM (M+evy)

410 If you can't fire them, how do you get rid of the drones? axe departments?

Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist at May 15, 2014 09:06 PM (M+evy)

411 Time to give it up mouth breathers. Time to go dream about the good old days when I wore a uniform and hoped for the day when I could throw down on my fellow Americans. Oh what could have been.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at May 15, 2014 09:06 PM (2+pvn)

412 399 -

I think a lot of people on the right also underestimate how unpopular Obama is. There is definitely going to be a backlash, probably this fall.

Now, the thing that galls me is the fact that we have a chickensh*t Republican Party right now, but that too shall pass.

I'm not expecting the world to return to some idyllic form, because such a thing does not exist, and it never did. But it will change. Probably for the better. We'll see. Or we won't, depending on the timing of SMOD.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 09:06 PM (PEb5B)

413 I love the idea of everyone else taking it in the ass.

Posted by: America's Civil Servant at May 15, 2014 09:07 PM (W7zKe)

414 WTF?

Posted by: Dead guy still in the VA waiting room at May 15, 2014 09:07 PM (GYg/s)

415 I seem to remember a story about some vets, former seals, who were told not to respond to a terrorist attack but they disobeyed orders and did it anyway

Must have been defective

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 09:07 PM (zOTsN)

416 Evening Horde.

Who'd we piss off today?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (GEICT)

417 My attempt to appease the gods and summon a new post:
http://tinyurl.com/l2mww9c

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (L02KD)

418 413 I love the idea of everyone else taking it in the ass.

Posted by: America's Civil Servant at May 15, 2014 09:07 PM (W7zKe)

Yeppers!

Posted by: Harry Reid at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (GYg/s)

419
"Integrated" Yankee and black troops (the latter
completely indoctrinated into how racist we are) - *they* would be the
ones called upon. There's a reason the show "Falling Skies" features the
Second Massachusetts and not, say, a West Virginia regiment.

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at May 15, 2014 08:57 PM (30eLQ)

That Massachusetts troops might go Nazi, I would not doubt for a minute. Their puritan past lends itself far to easily to Holier than thou "i'm doing this for your own good" mindset.
As to whether or not others would, I suspect it depends greatly on what sort of pressure is brought to bear. Rest assured, the troops will be told whatever is necessary to convince them to do the government's bidding, or to expect severe penalties if they refuse.

I recall reading about several incidents where military personnel were wargaming scenarios involving terrorist tea party types. Again, if you are fed enough propaganda long enough, you might end up believing it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (bb5+k)

420 >>>Who'd we piss off today?

Just read a few comments from this one, you'll get a pretty good idea.

Posted by: DC in (Location TBD) at May 15, 2014 09:09 PM (Pvcl5)

421 416 Evening Horde.

Who'd we piss off today?
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (GEICT)

Oh, just read the latter half of this thead and you'll get a pretty good idea.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 09:09 PM (oMKp3)

422 in defense of scoggdog.
I have witnessed reprehensible deeds from those I formally trusted , that i trusted , i truly was of the idea those in govt just went about their work as the rest of us do, not used as tools for partisan acts against the very people that they are supposed to work for.
so that it is possible that our most beloved of all our military folks getting orders to defend the country from Us , and that the media and everything at their beck and call would back that claim up isn't as far fetched as i once thought was possible.
I would hope most wouldn't heed the call , but we did see the disarming of americans afte Katrina. I'm sure those that were used thought they were doing the best for the country.

Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (nqBYe)

423 411 -

Sadly, I only joined the military so I could become a killbot, and kill innocent American citizens.

Alas, I never got to.

I'm a sad, sad killbot.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (PEb5B)

424 Evening Horde.

Who'd we piss off today?
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (GEICT)

******

Scrol back some. The list is long and distinguished.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (ojnk6)

425 416 Evening Horde.

Who'd we piss off today?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (GEICT)

Bunches; but there's still time, have anyone in mind?

Posted by: Guido at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (GYg/s)

426
DC in unknown parts beat me to it I see.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (oMKp3)

427 >>>Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 09:09 PM

JINX!!

Posted by: DC in (Location TBD) at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (Pvcl5)

428 Please let's not conflate the NOPD with the military

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 09:11 PM (zOTsN)

429 This is not to say that I think it'd be a bad thing,
it is to say I'd want at least *some* oversight to ensure vets get the
care the both need and deserve.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!)

I don't think that's a vet specific problem.

Posted by: Jean at May 15, 2014 09:11 PM (TETYm)

430 BCochran, everyone, but i am having jello shots along with phoenix.

no carrots!

Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:11 PM (nqBYe)

431 I hear this argument from time to time but I never
understand it? Department of Energy? What is it good for? Department of
Education? Worse than useless, it's actually detrimental. The EPA needs
to be cut back greatly, and so does the IRS.

I don't want it, and I don't want to pay for it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 09:05 PM (bb5+k)

-----
Neither do I, and I am quite convinced social security is a scam that, were it done by a private company, would be prosecutable. Yet, the minute you get a candidate talking about reforming social security you have a couple days of demagoguery, and you're suddenly underwater with the nation as a whole. Same with most any specific department or program.

The country only accepts republicans that blames it all on "fraud, waste, and abuse".

Posted by: Dave S. at May 15, 2014 09:11 PM (UvR6d)

432 This thread is still on top?

Posted by: garrett at May 15, 2014 09:12 PM (UcrLQ)

433 Thank God it's Willow!

Surely new thread smell will not be far behind!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 15, 2014 09:12 PM (oFCZn)

434 Thunderb, i had thought that was national guard?

Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:12 PM (nqBYe)

435 432 This thread is still on top?

Posted by: garrett at May 15, 2014 09:12 PM (UcrLQ)

No, we reached bottom some time ago.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (oMKp3)

436 ONT up

Posted by: Gabriel Syme (a.k.a. The Man Who Was Thursday) at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (np9Kw)

437 Not anymore. It's been willowed. Ont up.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (z/Ubi)

438 if it was their leos i'm greatly relieved!

Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (nqBYe)

439 Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (nqBYe)

Woot! Anytime now!

Posted by: Bruce Lee's Fist at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (M+evy)

440 nooooooo

Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (nqBYe)

441 So ... just so I'm in line with the official group-think ...

COPS can piss on the Constitution, and shoot your dog while using an incorrect warrant .... but National Guardsmen would never do such thing ?

Is that the deal ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (v3BJ5)

442 434 Thunderb, i had thought that was national guard?
Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:12 PM (nqBYe)

No no no no no

Posted by: grammie winger at May 15, 2014 09:13 PM (oMKp3)

443
I'm not expecting the world to return to some
idyllic form, because such a thing does not exist, and it never did. But
it will change. Probably for the better. We'll see. Or we won't,
depending on the timing of SMOD.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 15, 2014 09:06 PM (PEb5B)

I hope your position ends up being the correct one, but I think the pessimistic view which Scogg Dogg expresses needs to be seriously considered.
The German army was resistant to Hitler too, but they ended up doing his bidding non the less. I hope Americans are more immuned to anti-Liberty ideas, but I fear that with Idiocracy becoming far more dominant in our society, that the characteristics which make us resistant to totalitarianism are diminishing in our general population.

At some point, we may very well be there.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 09:14 PM (bb5+k)

444 grammie, tgod. that has bugged me for yeaaars!

Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:15 PM (nqBYe)

445 415
I seem to remember a story about some vets, former seals, who were told
not to respond to a terrorist attack but they disobeyed orders and did
it anyway

Must have been defective

Posted by: Thunderb at May 15, 2014 09:07 PM (zOTsN)

Too bad their superiors obeyed orders.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 09:15 PM (bb5+k)

446 I hate those meeses to pieces.

Posted by: JINX!! at May 15, 2014 09:18 PM (uhMMS)

447 Who'd we piss off today?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at May 15, 2014 09:08 PM (GEICT)

******

Scrol back some. The list is long and distinguished.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at May 15, 2014 09:10 PM (ojnk6)

I like to think that we can piss off people today, and tomorrow we can resume being cordial. I know I eventually get over any grudge feelings I have towards others, and I would hope others do so as well.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 09:18 PM (bb5+k)

448 may doherty an woods names resound through the book of good for ever and ever.

Posted by: willow at May 15, 2014 09:19 PM (nqBYe)

449 My wife and I are both retired military and saw quickly that promises made to vets meant nothing. However, we're both proud of the choice we made. We explained all of these things to our kids (especially the bad stuff), but they had to decide for themselves. My youngest daughter decided to become an Army combat medic. Not something that makes me comfortable, but it does make me extremely proud of her (E-7 in 8 yrs). She's been to Iraq and Afghanistan, always at small FOBs in the boonies, no large hospital in a protected zone.

My daughter serves so your kids don't have to.

Posted by: Nylon66 at May 15, 2014 09:20 PM (YELrK)

450 Those boys and girls are steeped to the bone in a literal interpretation of the Constitution.

Mine is. Also that Book that the public schools and the federal government want to get rid of so badly.

That is all I could do , but I did do that.

Posted by: noone, really at May 15, 2014 09:21 PM (BmmBm)

451 -----
Neither do I, and I am quite convinced
social security is a scam that, were it done by a private company, would
be prosecutable. Yet, the minute you get a candidate talking about
reforming social security you have a couple days of demagoguery, and
you're suddenly underwater with the nation as a whole. Same with most
any specific department or program.

The country only accepts republicans that blames it all on "fraud, waste, and abuse".

Posted by: Dave S. at May 15, 2014 09:11 PM (UvR6d)

Part of the reason for this is the Media, and part of it is that so many people have bought in to the scam that they can't bear to think they have been bamboozeled, and that there is no money to pay them.

I have known people who really really really thought that social security would be there for them and that they could actually retire and maintain a decent life as a result of it.

They didn't make any contingency plans.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 15, 2014 09:21 PM (bb5+k)

452 My daughter serves so your kids don't have to.

Lovely. I take my kids to the range so that government can't make them.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 09:23 PM (v3BJ5)

453 You wanna see someone take full responsibility? Fine, I'll show you someone taking full responsibility.

Posted by: Budd Dwyer at May 15, 2014 09:24 PM (jnG1p)

454 @18: "Name one liberal hack douchebag who has had the balls to resign.

(sits back and folds hands)"

Yo!

Posted by: Zombie Mike Boorda at May 15, 2014 09:28 PM (jnG1p)

455 ScoggDogg, that's cool. Mine also goes to non-military ranges, maybe they could shoot together. Btw, I almost replied to maybe your first comments about your kids not being in the military. Kinda agreed because I didn't really want mine to join. But, as I said it was her choice. Your comments since that first one seem to get a disrespectful toward those who do have kids in the military. If I am interrupting that wrong, I apologize.

Posted by: Nylon66 at May 15, 2014 09:38 PM (YELrK)

456 If it burns ... as many on here say they wish ...

They're going to find themselves on the wrong side of the military. Pure and simple.

But worship it all y'all want ...

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 15, 2014 09:45 PM (v3BJ5)

457 Nood

Posted by: Nylon66 at May 15, 2014 09:45 PM (YELrK)

458 Can I haz &&?

Posted by: Kate58 at May 15, 2014 10:33 PM (oLZsm)

459 Someone tell me how I can tweet these articles on Ace?
Can't he put a little bird on the top?
Someone?
Anyone?

Posted by: Toronto Gal at May 15, 2014 10:48 PM (SY/3f)

460 No-one will be fired. Everyone involved will be promoted. And given bonuses. Oh, and more of the expensive-to-treat vets will be killed. Lots. And lots. And lots.

Posted by: theCork at May 16, 2014 12:23 AM (I3ZHb)

461 I've been a regular VA patient for 22 years, my wife is retired Air Force and works at a VA now, has for the last 15 years,, I can tell you what's wrong with the VA , it is understaffed, not enough doctors, not enough clerks! They have plenty of money tho,, Washington expects fewer people to deal with more patients and thinks it's just that easy, I also volunteer at the VA once or twice a week, and I've never seen it this bad!

Posted by: WWhiskey at May 16, 2014 06:31 AM (3Ve0Z)

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