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What The Captain Of The USS Donald Cook Faced This Weekend In The Black Sea
Fire Controlman 1st Class Elizabeth Sharpe monitors a console in the combat information center aboard the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75). (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Edward Guttierrez III/RELEASED)
Press reports indicate that on Saturday, a Russian SU-24 FENCER made “…multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea for more than 90 minutes…” flying within 1000 yards of the USS DONALD COOK (DDG 75) at an altitude of approximately 500 feet. DONALD COOK is an ARLEIGH BURKE Class guided missile destroyer equipped with the Aegis Combat System, the SPY-1D phased-array radar and dozens of surface to air missiles, and the SU-24 is a Soviet-era all-weather attack jet still in service with the Russian Air Force. The incident was no doubt tense, but a few thoughts from someone who has dealt with a few close aboard passes may provide some context. 1. While this type of thing is not “common”, it is meticulously trained for. US ships are equipped with sophisticated embedded training devices that allow for very realistic training. The crew of the DONALD COOK has likely gone through scores if not hundreds of scenarios in which conditions very much like what were seen on Saturday are imposed upon the crew and the crew must then react. Although the exact wording and the rules of engagement that govern their use are classified, press reports indicate that the COOK made numerous attempts to contact the Russian aircraft, but were not answered. Those “queries” would have been practiced throughout the training cycle and even from watch to watch while on deployment. The queries would have been made over at least two different frequencies, commonly known as the “military air distress” frequency and the “international air distress” frequency. It is likely that the pilot of the FENCER heard them, but was pre-briefed not to answer.
2. The Captain of the Destroyer had a lot of guidance. Prior to the DONALD COOK’s transit into the Black Sea, it is likely that the Commanding Officer (CO) had in depth discussions of “what if’s” with both his immediate superior (the Battle Group Commander) and the Sixth Fleet Commander. They would have discussed a range of scenarios and the actions considered appropriate. They would have discussed concepts such as “hostile acts” and “hostile intent” in detail. Additionally, it is likely that while this incident was ongoing, the CO was in constant communication with his superiors, passing them pertinent information and characterizing the situation. The CO of a U.S. ship does not have a “right” to self-defense. He has an obligation to exercise it. That obligation would have been near to his mind, and he would have had a clear understanding of just what constituted a self-defense engagement. 3. The CO was where he needed to be. The Aegis cruisers that joined the fleet in the 1980’s were the first U.S. warships designed for the Captain to be somewhere other than the bridge during combat operations (as opposed to what we’re used to seeing in WWII movies). The DONALD COOK is no different. It is very likely that the CO was in the “Combat Information Center (CIC)”, which is where his team of operators are located who employ the sensors, weapons, and command and control links that make the ship so powerful. Though the situation was likely very tense (at least initially), the space would have been eerily quiet, as most communication occurs over headsets and microphones, with perhaps a random radio frequency brought up in a speaker for emphasis. There are few things more impressive than a modern destroyer at the top of its game doing its job well. There is no wasted motion. All communication is brief. There is far more silence than there is chatter. 4. It is possible DONALD COOK knew the FENCER was inbound before it obtained radar contact. The United States continues to maintain an impressive array of “national assets” that enable it to sustain surveillance on areas of high interest, which this part of the world assuredly is—at least now; DONALD COOK could have received reports that the Russian aircraft had taken off. Although the Black Sea is confined waterspace, it is also 700 miles across at its widest point, so it is likely that a plane taking off from Russia would have had several hundred miles to fly in order to intercept the ship. This of course, depends on where it launched from. DONALD COOK also could have been alerted by electronic emissions from the FENCER’s onboard systems, which often are detected before radar contact is gained. It would be surprising indeed if DONALD COOK did not have “heads up” on the FENCER before it (the FENCER) was in position to do anything mischievous. That said, until someone put a pair of human eyes on the FENCER, that it was “unarmed” (as is reported) could not have been known. The FENCER would have been assumed to be armed. Often this visual confirmation is performed by a carrier based fighter jet (or in this geography, a land based jet), but there are no reports of there having been any U.S. jets involved in this scenario. Therefore, the “unarmed call” would have been made by a trained observer topside on the destroyer only when the FENCER had come within visual range—which is well inside its weapons release range. This certainly would have added to the tension, but once the “wings clean” report was received from the observer, tensions would have declined. 5. An attack on the DONALD COOK by the FENCER would have been illogical. It is logical that the Russians do not want war with us any more than we want war with them. The Russian pilot—unless he or she decided to act independently and crash the plane into the ship—was almost certainly under strict orders to avoid overtly provocative acts. For instance, we have reports that the FENCER passed at an altitude of 500 feet; if it got to 500 feet from a steep dive, this would be overtly provocative. More likely, the FENCER declined in altitude slowly, over time, in order NOT to be provocative. And while 1000 yards may seem close when one considers a jet moving at several hundred knots, it is still six ship lengths away from the DONALD COOK (or put another way, 45 DONALD COOKS in width). The closest point of approach to the ship was likely also something the pilot was ordered to observe. Given the illogic of an attack but the very clear logic of messaging and surveillance, the crew of DONALD COOK likely entered this situation with a bias toward it NOT being an attack. This should not be confused with it being “unready”. Quite the opposite. But it would have been looking for deviations from the expected such as deep dive angle, erratic maneuvering, and high rates of speed, to overturn the initial (correct) bias. 6. The SPY Radar adds interesting wrinkles. Some are familiar with the concept of “search” and “track” radars, in that search radars generally are lower frequency with greater range (and poorer accuracy); while track radars are higher frequency and are more accurate. In days past, a ship searched a given volume of airspace with one radar and then relied on the tracking radar to provide “fire control quality” data to the weapon system. The act of obtaining that data—illuminating the target with fire control radar—could under certain circumstances—be viewed by a fighter/attack jet as a hostile act to which it would then be obligated to respond. This is not the case with the SPY radar. If the SPY radar holds the track, then the track can be engaged—no additional tracking radar is required in order to fire the missile (although a high frequency “director” is used to illuminate the target during the final few seconds of missile flight). This is important because the FENCER pilot would have known the moment his onboard electronic sensors picked up the SPY radar transmission, that he or she was being tracked with sufficient accuracy to be shot down. This knowledge cannot be have made their flight terribly comfortable. This sort of thing is likely to continue, and some behind the scenes discussions and coordination between the U.S. and Russia would be worthwhile. For the moment, my sense is that both sides realize what is at stake and are ensuring their tactical units are well-advised. So while it would be improper to overhype this incident, it would be just as improper not to view it with concern.Follow Bryan on Twitter
Bryan McGrath commanded the destroyer USS BULKELEY (DDG 84) from 2004-2006. He is currently the Managing Director of the FerryBridge Group and is the Assistant Director of Hudson Institute’s Center for American Seapower.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: Capt Adama at April 15, 2014 10:25 AM (GQ8sn)
2
Someone posted here that we were buzzed by a Russian FU-24/7.
Someone posted here that we were buzzed by a Russian FU-24/7.
Posted by: Billy Goat at April 15, 2014 10:27 AM (8c12T)
3
Too bad we're at a point where a single DDG is supposed to make a statement.
16 carrier battle groups and four surface action groups gave tha ability to scare the crap out of anyone back in the day.
16 carrier battle groups and four surface action groups gave tha ability to scare the crap out of anyone back in the day.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 15, 2014 10:28 AM (659DL)
4
Weak POTUS baiting.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 10:28 AM (IXrOn)
5
Someone posted here that we were buzzed by a Russian FU-24/7.
Posted by: Billy Goat at April 15, 2014 10:27 AM (8c12T)
Stealing that.
Posted by: Billy Goat at April 15, 2014 10:27 AM (8c12T)
Stealing that.
Posted by: RWC at April 15, 2014 10:29 AM (fWAjv)
6
All it will take is for one person on either side getting jumpy... and then the whole thing goes straight to hell...
Pray for our military men and women. This business is insane.
Pray for our military men and women. This business is insane.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at April 15, 2014 10:29 AM (9LuAk)
7
What, we're going to be a smart military blog now...?
Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 15, 2014 10:29 AM (rt3TY)
8
What's Russian for "You'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong"?
j/k The pilot will probably get a promotion. And a hot Ukrainian chick.
j/k The pilot will probably get a promotion. And a hot Ukrainian chick.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 15, 2014 10:29 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 10:30 AM (HLprW)
10
This business will get out of control! It'll get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it!
Posted by: Adm. Josh Painter at April 15, 2014 10:31 AM (DrWcr)
11
The Russians and Chinese have some very nasty equipment and are capable of inflicting significant damage to us - but they're not suicidal.
They lack the capacity to engage the US in a sustained conflict of any kind, but certainly not the will.
The US on the other hand... We of president mom-jeans and Secretary of State 'climate change is the greatest threat to world peace' Kerry are an international laughingstock.
They lack the capacity to engage the US in a sustained conflict of any kind, but certainly not the will.
The US on the other hand... We of president mom-jeans and Secretary of State 'climate change is the greatest threat to world peace' Kerry are an international laughingstock.
Posted by: mongrel19 at April 15, 2014 10:31 AM (q4Jl2)
12
"Fire Controlman 1st Class Elizabeth Sharpe monitors a console in the combat information center"
Do the Russians have women serving on combat vessels?
Do the Russians have women serving on combat vessels?
Posted by: Marc at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (+k9zt)
13
I crapped my pants a little when informed of this. That damned Vlad!
Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (Dwehj)
14
So, why do it? What is the "message" being sent? By both sides? It's almost as though it was staged by both sides for public consumption. Given CDR McGrath's thoughts, it looks as though the USN was not about to engage the Su, and that the Su was clearly not intending to engage the Donald Cook. And yet, if neither side wants to fight, why do something that could be misinterpreted and lead to shooting? Testing each other's ROE? Cue Fred Dalton Thompson from "THFRE" after the aircraft crashes attempting to land on the carrier.
Posted by: Crimso at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (Xj3ni)
15
This is just ridiculous. I can't believe they're acting like this is the 19th century.
Posted by: John Kerry at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (Aif/5)
16
3 Too bad we're at a point where a single DDG is supposed to make a statement.
16 carrier battle groups and four surface action groups gave tha ability to scare the crap out of anyone back in the day.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 15, 2014 10:28 AM (659DL)
I recently viewed some film from WW1 of a battle group on rough seas sailing along and yes, it does look impressive.
16 carrier battle groups and four surface action groups gave tha ability to scare the crap out of anyone back in the day.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 15, 2014 10:28 AM (659DL)
I recently viewed some film from WW1 of a battle group on rough seas sailing along and yes, it does look impressive.
Posted by: Billy Goat at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (8c12T)
17
Do the Russians have women serving on combat vessels?
I'm sure they do. For certain definitions of "serving".
I'm sure they do. For certain definitions of "serving".
Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 15, 2014 10:33 AM (rt3TY)
18
Vlad is ringing Gaylord's doorbell real hard. Warning him that he is playing in Vlad's backyard.
And now I have this image of Gaylord singing -
I'm not aware of too many things,
But I know what I know if you know what I mean.
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box.
Religion is the smile on a dog.
I'm not aware of too many things,
But I know what I know if you know what I mean.
Choke me in the shallow water before I get too deep.
And now I have this image of Gaylord singing -
I'm not aware of too many things,
But I know what I know if you know what I mean.
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box.
Religion is the smile on a dog.
I'm not aware of too many things,
But I know what I know if you know what I mean.
Choke me in the shallow water before I get too deep.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 10:33 AM (LLb/F)
19
Do the Russians have women serving on combat vessels?
Posted by: Marc at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (+k9zt)
Yes, but they wear different uniforms....they go topless.
Posted by: Marc at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (+k9zt)
Yes, but they wear different uniforms....they go topless.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 10:33 AM (QFxY5)
20
Do the Russians have women serving on combat vessels?
Posted by: Marc at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (+k9zt)
Good question. Where do all those hawt Russian servicewomen end up serving? Can't be just all formation marching and photo ops can it?
Posted by: Marc at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (+k9zt)
Good question. Where do all those hawt Russian servicewomen end up serving? Can't be just all formation marching and photo ops can it?
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014 10:34 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 15, 2014 10:34 AM (1Jaio)
22
17 Do the Russians have women serving on combat vessels?
I'm sure they do. For certain definitions of "serving".
Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 15, 2014 10:33 AM (rt3TY)
Like serving sammiches?
I'm sure they do. For certain definitions of "serving".
Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 15, 2014 10:33 AM (rt3TY)
Like serving sammiches?
Posted by: MikeH at April 15, 2014 10:34 AM (ZdA3v)
23
well God bless them. We have no business being there IMO. Aside from defending our petrodollar as GRC, which Obummer wont do.
the CIA keeps doing part A of the traditional schtick, where we destabilize areas trying to get energy production outside USD trades ramped up, but bama wont follow thru on his schtick which is to start the hot war.
So instead, innocent peeps get brutalized, chaos abounds, us taxpayers pay for it (Nuland gave Ukraine separatists 5B already) and then Obama whiffs and Putin can sail in looking like a hero and save the day.
As MEchelle would say, 'how does this help my kids?"
Brennan flew into Kiev the other day to demand they start a hot war before the May 25 elections. WTH is an unelected coup 'leadership' okay to arm and fund? Brennan told them to get into E Ukraine and fire on civilians. Its utterly disgusting and its as plain as the nose on Kerrys face.
God help the innocent people in the world, cause the US under Obama wont. We will apparently keep stirring shit up and then watch as Obummer whiffs and we look ever more weak.
the CIA keeps doing part A of the traditional schtick, where we destabilize areas trying to get energy production outside USD trades ramped up, but bama wont follow thru on his schtick which is to start the hot war.
So instead, innocent peeps get brutalized, chaos abounds, us taxpayers pay for it (Nuland gave Ukraine separatists 5B already) and then Obama whiffs and Putin can sail in looking like a hero and save the day.
As MEchelle would say, 'how does this help my kids?"
Brennan flew into Kiev the other day to demand they start a hot war before the May 25 elections. WTH is an unelected coup 'leadership' okay to arm and fund? Brennan told them to get into E Ukraine and fire on civilians. Its utterly disgusting and its as plain as the nose on Kerrys face.
God help the innocent people in the world, cause the US under Obama wont. We will apparently keep stirring shit up and then watch as Obummer whiffs and we look ever more weak.
Posted by: ginaswo at April 15, 2014 10:34 AM (VGpgb)
24
Where is that blasted Reset Button?
Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at April 15, 2014 10:34 AM (Dwehj)
25
Dr Strangelove it wasn't.
Orchestrated military air ballet, to deliver a crisp "hello, sailor," to our warship.
The Nitwit-in-Chief may be a wimp, but unless I am wrong, our navy is carrying rules of engagement that permit defensive moves and actions, in the event that one of Boris's guys throw a punch.
Orchestrated military air ballet, to deliver a crisp "hello, sailor," to our warship.
The Nitwit-in-Chief may be a wimp, but unless I am wrong, our navy is carrying rules of engagement that permit defensive moves and actions, in the event that one of Boris's guys throw a punch.
Posted by: the littl shyning man at April 15, 2014 10:35 AM (tmFlQ)
26
John Kerry, "Where is that d@mn Reset button!!!"
Hillary Clitnon merely whistles and walks a bit funny as she exits the State Department.
Hillary Clitnon merely whistles and walks a bit funny as she exits the State Department.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 10:35 AM (LLb/F)
27
BattleSwarm @BattleSwarmBlog
Another day, another 71 killed by Jihadests with a car bomb in #Nigeria: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/ nigeria-islamic-jihadists-murder-71-with-bombs-at-bus-station … #Jihad
Another day, another 71 killed by Jihadests with a car bomb in #Nigeria: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/ nigeria-islamic-jihadists-murder-71-with-bombs-at-bus-station … #Jihad
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:37 AM (ZPrif)
28
What? No inverted, negative 4-g dives at a distance of two meters? Taking polaroids?
Posted by: Count de Monet at April 15, 2014 10:37 AM (BAS5M)
29
HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN.
Posted by: boulder t'hobo at April 15, 2014 10:38 AM (6mYGI)
30
President Obama and Russian leader Vladimir Putin spoke by phone on
Monday in an attempt to reduce rising ethnic tensions in eastern Ukraine
and avert a feared Russian military incursion, as U.S. officials warned
of further sanctions if the situation worsens.
Prezzy Pissing His Pants: Stop Vlad, you're just being a big old bully
Monday in an attempt to reduce rising ethnic tensions in eastern Ukraine
and avert a feared Russian military incursion, as U.S. officials warned
of further sanctions if the situation worsens.
Prezzy Pissing His Pants: Stop Vlad, you're just being a big old bully
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (1Jaio)
31
What was the point of putting a ship in the Black Sea? Was it there to protect U.S. shipping from the terrible Black Sea pirates or just to piss off the Russians?
Fucking stupid move.
Fucking stupid move.
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (u2a4R)
32
Why do you want to kill Russian babies!?!?!
Posted by: Some Idiot at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (Aif/5)
33
Is this the same Bryan McGrath that during DrewM's interview said about criticisms of the LCS' lack of survivability that "they weren't made to be survivable in combat", juxtaposed with his desire to see us hump dozens of them into production so that we can "project force" into more places?*
Oh, yeah, and go ahead and whittle the Army down to a nub so we can have more useless floating toys.
I realize this is late, but I wasn't around to discuss that podcast at the time.
-----------------------------
What does CDR McGrath think of the aircraft the Russkis selected to make their weak-assed demonstration? The Fencer is almost as old as I am - I'm sure they had more advanced attack aircraft they could have used to ratchet up the tension - was this less capable aircraft likely chosen as a milder threat?
Oh, yeah, and go ahead and whittle the Army down to a nub so we can have more useless floating toys.
I realize this is late, but I wasn't around to discuss that podcast at the time.
-----------------------------
What does CDR McGrath think of the aircraft the Russkis selected to make their weak-assed demonstration? The Fencer is almost as old as I am - I'm sure they had more advanced attack aircraft they could have used to ratchet up the tension - was this less capable aircraft likely chosen as a milder threat?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (CJjw5)
34
Hard to see how Nigeria remains a single country. Probably should split into a muslim north and Christian south.
That or the Christians need to kill every last jihadi.
That or the Christians need to kill every last jihadi.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (ZPrif)
35
I've got the need, the need to cede!
Posted by: President Obama, Top Gun at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (ZshNr)
36
Our military personnel is top-notch. Their leadership is an embarrassment. This can't end well.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (RD7QR)
37
You know the thing where the bully sits on the weenie's chest and acts like he's going to dribble spit on the weenie's face only to suck it up at the last minute?
That's essentially this. with Putin as the bully and Obama as the weenie.
Yeah.
That's essentially this. with Putin as the bully and Obama as the weenie.
Yeah.
Posted by: naturalfake at April 15, 2014 10:40 AM (0cMkb)
38
I've got the need, the need to cede!
Posted by: President Obama, Top Gun at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (ZshNr)
HAHAHAHA!!!!
Fucking perfect!
Posted by: President Obama, Top Gun at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (ZshNr)
HAHAHAHA!!!!
Fucking perfect!
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014 10:40 AM (GQ8sn)
39
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (CJjw5)
They carry modern anti-ship missiles.
They carry modern anti-ship missiles.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 10:41 AM (QFxY5)
40
Sounds like a long shot he was trying, but if we shoot down one of his planes because our military wasn't trained properly, it's all win for Vlad.
I guess Vlad's just probing to see if we still remember the 80s.
Guaranteed he does.
I guess Vlad's just probing to see if we still remember the 80s.
Guaranteed he does.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 10:42 AM (HLprW)
41
Barry: Hey Vlad, Jay Carney has a lot of commie posters in his house. So why don't you play nice now?
Barry: Hey Vlad, Jay Carney has a lot of commie posters in his house. So why don't you play nice now?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 15, 2014 10:42 AM (1Jaio)
42
What,stunted, wide bodied,chambray shirt wearing, high and tights haircut, PallMall smoking, sandal wearin'Bulls in positions of power? Meh, so what, I got that where I work every damn day.
Posted by: Todd Bridges, first to go bad, last to go down at April 15, 2014 10:43 AM (3yfGn)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 15, 2014 10:43 AM (DmNpO)
44
Ukraine possibly entering a new phase today. Some mil-mil contact perhaps. Unclear.
The Interpreter @Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: What appears to be a significant military operation is underway to reclaim Kramatorsk airfield http://bit.ly/1gAXGsA
The Interpreter @Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: #BREAKING - Espresso TV says Interior Ministry Special Forces now in control of Kramatorsk Airfield http://bit.ly/1qE4WXD
The Interpreter @Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: 1st Deputy Prime Minister says Russian 45th Airborne is already on the ground in east Ukraine http://bit.ly/1qE61yH
The Interpreter @Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: What appears to be a significant military operation is underway to reclaim Kramatorsk airfield http://bit.ly/1gAXGsA
The Interpreter @Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: #BREAKING - Espresso TV says Interior Ministry Special Forces now in control of Kramatorsk Airfield http://bit.ly/1qE4WXD
The Interpreter @Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: 1st Deputy Prime Minister says Russian 45th Airborne is already on the ground in east Ukraine http://bit.ly/1qE61yH
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (LLb/F)
46
The Black Sea is international waters and periodically the US sends a ship there to remind everybody of that. I think it's called Freedom of Navigation exercises. This probably seemed like a good time to reemphasize the whole "We can go where we want in the Black Sea" idea.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (RD7QR)
47
The Interpreter @Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: 1st Deputy Prime Minister says Russian 45th Airborne is already on the ground in east Ukraine http://bit.ly/1qE61yH
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (ZPrif)
Whoa. If the Ukrainians killed any ethnic Russians Putin will claim casus belli.
Ukraine Liveblog: 1st Deputy Prime Minister says Russian 45th Airborne is already on the ground in east Ukraine http://bit.ly/1qE61yH
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (ZPrif)
Whoa. If the Ukrainians killed any ethnic Russians Putin will claim casus belli.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 10:45 AM (RD7QR)
48
alright i'm not sure i get this.
so they were being checked out by vlads cht and they didn't know for certain if they were armed and ready? aren't ships like sitting ducks . aren't there rules of the sea, where you don't Buzz a countries ship without it looking like you are the enemy? could it have been a prelude to an attack yet the response was to patiently wait for it, If that was the end goal?
What if Vlad's routine had included actually included missiling the ship? is that how we find out where He's going with his resuming His national strong man suit?
I guess i'm coming from, could this easily have had a different result where we are sending help out to retrieve what's left after Vlad attacked?
so they were being checked out by vlads cht and they didn't know for certain if they were armed and ready? aren't ships like sitting ducks . aren't there rules of the sea, where you don't Buzz a countries ship without it looking like you are the enemy? could it have been a prelude to an attack yet the response was to patiently wait for it, If that was the end goal?
What if Vlad's routine had included actually included missiling the ship? is that how we find out where He's going with his resuming His national strong man suit?
I guess i'm coming from, could this easily have had a different result where we are sending help out to retrieve what's left after Vlad attacked?
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 10:45 AM (nqBYe)
49
i have a problem with the "plane was unarmed" assumption.
Aircraft generally carry ammunition inboard. The Su-24 has a gatling gun that fires 23 mm rounds which could shred the hull of most any destroyer. All it needs is to get within firing range.
On the other hand, doing nothing could have been the right course of action. The Su-24 could have been there to test response. And if this is the case, that captain is a good one.
Aircraft generally carry ammunition inboard. The Su-24 has a gatling gun that fires 23 mm rounds which could shred the hull of most any destroyer. All it needs is to get within firing range.
On the other hand, doing nothing could have been the right course of action. The Su-24 could have been there to test response. And if this is the case, that captain is a good one.
Posted by: jd at April 15, 2014 10:46 AM (cqg83)
50
Nothin' like a false sense of security to provide a little temporary insulation from the realities outside the "Combat Information Center." It's all a video game 'till a Russian missile comes through the wall and turns their little CIC into a blazing inferno.
"It is very likely that the CO was in the “Combat Information Center (CIC)”, which is where his team of operators are located who employ the sensors, weapons, and command and control links that make the ship so powerful. Though the situation was likely very tense (at least initially), the space would have been eerily quiet, as most communication occurs over headsets and microphones, with perhaps a random radio frequency brought up in a speaker for emphasis. There are few things more impressive than a modern destroyer at the top of its game doing its job well. There is no wasted motion. All communication is brief. There is far more silence than there is chatter."
"It is very likely that the CO was in the “Combat Information Center (CIC)”, which is where his team of operators are located who employ the sensors, weapons, and command and control links that make the ship so powerful. Though the situation was likely very tense (at least initially), the space would have been eerily quiet, as most communication occurs over headsets and microphones, with perhaps a random radio frequency brought up in a speaker for emphasis. There are few things more impressive than a modern destroyer at the top of its game doing its job well. There is no wasted motion. All communication is brief. There is far more silence than there is chatter."
Posted by: Moron Labe! at April 15, 2014 10:46 AM (Hslsk)
51
costanza defense-
Brennan flew into Kiev yesterday. Today the 'leadership' of Ukraine ordered its military to fire on civilian protestors in E Ukraine. not a coincidence.
Brennan flew into Kiev yesterday. Today the 'leadership' of Ukraine ordered its military to fire on civilian protestors in E Ukraine. not a coincidence.
Posted by: ginaswo at April 15, 2014 10:46 AM (VGpgb)
52
They carry modern anti-ship missiles.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 10:41 AM (QFxY5)
--------------------------
Yes, but wouldn't you send an aircraft more modern and capable of surviving an engagement if you were intending to make a nastier threat?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 10:41 AM (QFxY5)
--------------------------
Yes, but wouldn't you send an aircraft more modern and capable of surviving an engagement if you were intending to make a nastier threat?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 10:47 AM (CJjw5)
53
The Black Sea is international waters and periodically the US sends a ship there to remind everybody of that. I think it's called Freedom of Navigation exercises. This probably seemed like a good time to reemphasize the whole "We can go where we want in the Black Sea" idea.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (RD7QR)
ok . one answered question. thanks.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (RD7QR)
ok . one answered question. thanks.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 10:47 AM (nqBYe)
54
What was the point of putting a ship in the Black
Sea? Was it there to protect U.S. shipping from the terrible Black Sea
pirates or just to piss off the Russians?
Fucking stupid move.
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (u2a4R)
When Barry heard Black Sea he thought there must be a lot of brothers there who would help him out
Sea? Was it there to protect U.S. shipping from the terrible Black Sea
pirates or just to piss off the Russians?
Fucking stupid move.
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 10:39 AM (u2a4R)
When Barry heard Black Sea he thought there must be a lot of brothers there who would help him out
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 15, 2014 10:47 AM (1Jaio)
55
46 The Black Sea is international waters and periodically the US sends a ship there to remind everybody of that. I think it's called Freedom of Navigation exercises. This probably seemed like a good time to reemphasize the whole "We can go where we want in the Black Sea" idea.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (RD7QR)
Be better served to have a squad of Marines piss of a party boat in the middle of the Black Sea while blasting AC/DC
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 10:44 AM (RD7QR)
Be better served to have a squad of Marines piss of a party boat in the middle of the Black Sea while blasting AC/DC
Posted by: MikeH at April 15, 2014 10:48 AM (ZdA3v)
56
So, Vlad isn't done yet, eh? No surprise there, but I have no idea what his end game is vis a vis Ukraine. I suppose his ultimate end game is a Greater Glorious Russian Empire, so he may never stop.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (ZshNr)
57
The Russian pilot was looking for a giant American cooter to dive his plane into.
Posted by: Cicero Kid saw the tweet at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (Fp7JI)
58
Barky has presented his red and inflamed hindquarters to Putin lately more often than a rabid female baboon in estrus.
Barky has presented his red and inflamed hindquarters to Putin lately more often than a rabid female baboon in estrus.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (HsTG8)
59
Yes, but wouldn't you send an aircraft more modern
and capable of surviving an engagement if you were intending to make a
nastier threat?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 10:47 AM (CJjw5)
Survive? That pilot was told to "take one for the team" if the balloon went up.
and capable of surviving an engagement if you were intending to make a
nastier threat?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 10:47 AM (CJjw5)
Survive? That pilot was told to "take one for the team" if the balloon went up.
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (GQ8sn)
60
It's da CIA and da joos......
Posted by: Luap Nor at April 15, 2014 10:50 AM (Aif/5)
61
57 The Russian pilot was looking for a giant American cooter to dive his plane into.
Posted by: Cicero Kid saw the tweet at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (Fp7JI)
Why wasn't he flying over Georgetown, then?
Posted by: Cicero Kid saw the tweet at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (Fp7JI)
Why wasn't he flying over Georgetown, then?
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at April 15, 2014 10:50 AM (DrWcr)
62
ok , so internatinal waters, Than we are there to what?
check Vlad's further nationalistic moves towards ?
so we really aren;'t going to check any moves BUT put our guys and gals at risk to pretend Pbama could possibly be painting a pink line he may white out further?
check Vlad's further nationalistic moves towards ?
so we really aren;'t going to check any moves BUT put our guys and gals at risk to pretend Pbama could possibly be painting a pink line he may white out further?
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 10:50 AM (nqBYe)
63
Defense News @defense_news 22m
INTERCEPTS: Former Ambassador to Russia Predicts ‘Scary’ and ‘Bloody’ Day in Ukraine http://ift.tt/1m5bP4L
The Obama administration’s former ambassador to Moscow says Tuesday could be a “scary” and “bloody” day in eastern Ukraine.
Ukrainian officials reportedly have green-lighted counterterrorism operations in that country’s Donetsk region, which in recent days has been the site of violence and allegations that pro-Russia demonstrators and militants were sent there by Moscow.
The idea among Ukrainian and Western officials and experts is Russian President Vladimir Putin is attempting to create in other parts of eastern Ukraine an allusion that ethnic Russians are under threat, thereby justifying him sending in troops to “protect” them.
INTERCEPTS: Former Ambassador to Russia Predicts ‘Scary’ and ‘Bloody’ Day in Ukraine http://ift.tt/1m5bP4L
The Obama administration’s former ambassador to Moscow says Tuesday could be a “scary” and “bloody” day in eastern Ukraine.
Ukrainian officials reportedly have green-lighted counterterrorism operations in that country’s Donetsk region, which in recent days has been the site of violence and allegations that pro-Russia demonstrators and militants were sent there by Moscow.
The idea among Ukrainian and Western officials and experts is Russian President Vladimir Putin is attempting to create in other parts of eastern Ukraine an allusion that ethnic Russians are under threat, thereby justifying him sending in troops to “protect” them.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:50 AM (ZPrif)
64
46, we sent a couple ships to the Black Sea during the recent Olympics. One of them ran aground. In a way this is the story of Barack Obama.
Posted by: fairweatherbill deerslayer at April 15, 2014 10:51 AM (ywbwL)
65
58
Barky has presented his red and inflamed hindquarters to Putin lately more often than a rabid female baboon in estrus.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (HsTG
Well it's not THAT inflamed.
Barky has presented his red and inflamed hindquarters to Putin lately more often than a rabid female baboon in estrus.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (HsTG
Well it's not THAT inflamed.
Posted by: Michelle at April 15, 2014 10:51 AM (RD7QR)
66
Survive? That pilot was told to "take one for the team" if the balloon went up.
And a Hero of the Soviet Union medal to be awarded later. With Oak Leaf clusters
Posthumously.
And a Hero of the Soviet Union medal to be awarded later. With Oak Leaf clusters
Posthumously.
Posted by: Count de Monet at April 15, 2014 10:51 AM (BAS5M)
67
Willow its a game of nerves. Vlad is saying this is my yard and this is a polite warning. Behave or else.
Luckily USS Cook did not twitch. Or an SM-2 or the CIWS would have shredded the SU-24 Fencer. And one minute later the Russian ambassador on the UN Security Council would be pounding his desk calling for sanctions against those American war criminals.
Vlad does chess, Gaylor is lucky to beat Joe Bidet at checkers.
Luckily USS Cook did not twitch. Or an SM-2 or the CIWS would have shredded the SU-24 Fencer. And one minute later the Russian ambassador on the UN Security Council would be pounding his desk calling for sanctions against those American war criminals.
Vlad does chess, Gaylor is lucky to beat Joe Bidet at checkers.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 10:51 AM (LLb/F)
68
Survive? That pilot was told to "take one for the team" if the balloon went up.
---
Thou shalt not fuck with an AEGIS warship.
If the weapons-free command were given, the pilot would have the consistency of chunky salsa right about now.
---
Thou shalt not fuck with an AEGIS warship.
If the weapons-free command were given, the pilot would have the consistency of chunky salsa right about now.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 10:52 AM (APuJ7)
69
The guest was commander of the Bulkeley, named after John Bulkeley, Medal of Honor winner, MTB leader in the Philippines, the guy responsible for getting MacArthur out.
They Were Expendable was the book and the movie made later with John Wayne, Robert Montgomery and Donna Reed.
He lived down the street from my grandparents.
They Were Expendable was the book and the movie made later with John Wayne, Robert Montgomery and Donna Reed.
He lived down the street from my grandparents.
Posted by: scottst at April 15, 2014 10:52 AM (Fp9Vt)
70
"so we really aren;'t going to check any moves BUT put our guys and gals
at risk to pretend Pbama could possibly be painting a pink line he may
white out further?"
Pretty much. Obama has painted himself into this corner, so this is pretty much theater right now. Vlad is just making sure we remember our lines.
at risk to pretend Pbama could possibly be painting a pink line he may
white out further?"
Pretty much. Obama has painted himself into this corner, so this is pretty much theater right now. Vlad is just making sure we remember our lines.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 10:53 AM (HLprW)
71
>>President Obama and Russian leader Vladimir Putin spoke by phone on
Monday in an attempt to reduce rising ethnic tensions in eastern Ukraine
and avert a feared Russian military incursion, as U.S. officials warned
of further sanctions if the situation worsens.
I wonder if Vlad called him "sugartits" before or after he said "First you will blow me." to Obama
Monday in an attempt to reduce rising ethnic tensions in eastern Ukraine
and avert a feared Russian military incursion, as U.S. officials warned
of further sanctions if the situation worsens.
I wonder if Vlad called him "sugartits" before or after he said "First you will blow me." to Obama
Posted by: Aviator at April 15, 2014 10:53 AM (jSUU1)
72
The idea among Ukrainian and Western officials and experts is Russian President Vladimir Putin is attempting to create in other parts of eastern Ukraine an allusion that ethnic Russians are under threat, thereby justifying him sending in troops to “protect” them.
If this is 1939 again, could I at least have the stylish clothes and swing music, please?
If this is 1939 again, could I at least have the stylish clothes and swing music, please?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 15, 2014 10:54 AM (zF6Iw)
73
Russian state media reporting 11 dead. No independent confirmation.
Ukraine media says they reclaimed the airfield.
RT ✔ @RT_com
BREAKING: Reports of 11 dead as Kiev starts military op in Kramatorsk, E. #Ukraine http://on.rt.com/nmjptz
Ukraine media says they reclaimed the airfield.
RT ✔ @RT_com
BREAKING: Reports of 11 dead as Kiev starts military op in Kramatorsk, E. #Ukraine http://on.rt.com/nmjptz
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:54 AM (ZPrif)
74
Anna, I just find it strange we'd put the ship and it's minders in harms way when everyone knows Obama doesn't mean anything about anything .
I guess if i thought someone besides Kerry and Powers were actually serious thinkers and Had an actual plan . But i can't see it. AND tht might just be me, But it's like larry ,curly and moe during happy hour to me.
I guess if i thought someone besides Kerry and Powers were actually serious thinkers and Had an actual plan . But i can't see it. AND tht might just be me, But it's like larry ,curly and moe during happy hour to me.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 10:55 AM (nqBYe)
75
Yes, but wouldn't you send an aircraft more modern
and capable of surviving an engagement if you were intending to make a
nastier threat?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 10:47 AM (CJjw5)
They have the next generation SU-34, but maybe they don't want to lose one?
Launching two anti-ship missiles and then hoping to get the fuck out of there would be a reasonable Russian tactic.
They would claim that we fired first, and that the pilot was just trying to protect himself. If he got shot down after launching...even better.
and capable of surviving an engagement if you were intending to make a
nastier threat?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 10:47 AM (CJjw5)
They have the next generation SU-34, but maybe they don't want to lose one?
Launching two anti-ship missiles and then hoping to get the fuck out of there would be a reasonable Russian tactic.
They would claim that we fired first, and that the pilot was just trying to protect himself. If he got shot down after launching...even better.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 10:56 AM (QFxY5)
76
But it's like larry ,curly and moe during happy hour to me.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 10:55 AM (nqBYe)
The Three Stooges were far more competent.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 10:55 AM (nqBYe)
The Three Stooges were far more competent.
Posted by: Insomniac at April 15, 2014 10:56 AM (DrWcr)
77
hey,
i think you have a typo in point 2, third sentence from end,
The CO of a U.S. ship DOES NOT have a “right” to self-defense. He has an obligation to exercise it. That obligation would have been near to his mind, and he would have had a clear understanding of just what constituted a self-defense engagement.
i think you have a typo in point 2, third sentence from end,
The CO of a U.S. ship DOES NOT have a “right” to self-defense. He has an obligation to exercise it. That obligation would have been near to his mind, and he would have had a clear understanding of just what constituted a self-defense engagement.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 10:56 AM (rDidD)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 10:56 AM (LLb/F)
79
Bolton candy; albeit black licorice.
JOHN BOLTON: “We are right on the brink of general hostilities between Russia and Ukraine”
http://tinyurl.com/nro6sgw
Bolton candy; albeit black licorice.
JOHN BOLTON: “We are right on the brink of general hostilities between Russia and Ukraine”
http://tinyurl.com/nro6sgw
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 10:56 AM (IXrOn)
80
All it will take is for one person on either side getting jumpy... and then the whole thing goes straight to hell...
Bedford Incident
Bedford Incident
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (AaZet)
81
The most important thing was that this entire incident never interrupted Obama's card game.
Posted by: Roy at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (VndSC)
82
Fire Controlman 1st Class Elizabeth Sharpe monitors a console in the combat information center
I heard the new USN term is Fire Controlperson.
Fire Controlman 1st Class Elizabeth Sharpe monitors a console in the combat information center
I heard the new USN term is Fire Controlperson.
Posted by: @JohnTant at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (eytER)
83
81 The most important thing was that this entire incident never interrupted Obama's card game.
Posted by: Roy at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (VndSC)
Which was Spades... so, raaaaaciss!
81 The most important thing was that this entire incident never interrupted Obama's card game.
Posted by: Roy at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (VndSC)
Which was Spades... so, raaaaaciss!
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ at April 15, 2014 10:58 AM (HsTG8)
84
I wonder if Vlad called him "sugartits" before or after he said "First you will blow me." to Obama
Posted by: Aviator at April 15, 2014 10:53 AM (jSUU1)
Barry: Oh Vlad, get in the glory hole line. I've got sooooo many guys to get to today
Posted by: Aviator at April 15, 2014 10:53 AM (jSUU1)
Barry: Oh Vlad, get in the glory hole line. I've got sooooo many guys to get to today
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 15, 2014 10:58 AM (1Jaio)
85
well Obma will redeem himself as a Strong horse in the country by attacking more tea partiers, ranchers, or those that speak unkindly of him . so i guess it's all good .
Burn the Witch, wheew well i'm certainly glad Vlad knows this guy and no ham no fowl, just many guffaws .
Burn the Witch, wheew well i'm certainly glad Vlad knows this guy and no ham no fowl, just many guffaws .
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 10:58 AM (nqBYe)
86
"Launching two anti-ship missiles and then hoping to get the fuck out of there would be a reasonable Russian tactic.
They would claim that we fired first, and that the pilot was just trying to protect himself. If he got shot down after launching...even better."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 10:56 AM (QFxY5)
This.
Putin is just the guy to launch a couple Harpoonski's and then blame it on the U.S. He knows that Obama wouldn't do anything but write a strong letter after killing 300 sailors on that destroyer.
They would claim that we fired first, and that the pilot was just trying to protect himself. If he got shot down after launching...even better."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 10:56 AM (QFxY5)
This.
Putin is just the guy to launch a couple Harpoonski's and then blame it on the U.S. He knows that Obama wouldn't do anything but write a strong letter after killing 300 sailors on that destroyer.
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 10:59 AM (u2a4R)
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014 10:59 AM (GQ8sn)
88
Willow that is the problem. This administration thinks it has a perfect plan. So they have this script. Except its a plan from the fantasies they built in Academia and Vlad is reading off a different script called Greater Russia. So they can't handle it in any rational way and flounder like third rate bit players in the Catskills.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 10:59 AM (LLb/F)
89
Krautish press says a Ukranian general is threatening the separatists with annihilation if they don't disarm. ("Vernichtung", turning into nothing).
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 15, 2014 11:00 AM (JtwS4)
90
All it will take is for one person on either side getting jumpy... and then the whole thing goes straight to hell...
Bedford Incident
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (AaZet)
The Boston Massacre.
Bedford Incident
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (AaZet)
The Boston Massacre.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 15, 2014 11:01 AM (zF6Iw)
91
Vlad is reading off a different script called Greater Russia.
---
Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least.
---
Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:01 AM (APuJ7)
92
Access to the Black Sea is governed by the Montreaux Treaty, and the treaty says:
The Convention consists of 29 Articles, four annexes and one protocol. Articles 2–7 consider the passage of merchant ships. Articles 8–22 consider the passage of war vessels. The key principle of freedom of passage and navigation is stated in articles 1 and 2. Article 1 provides that "The High Contracting Parties recognise and affirm the principle of freedom of passage and navigation by sea in the Straits". Article 2 states that "In time of peace, merchant vessels shall enjoy complete freedom of passage and navigation in the Straits, by day and by night, under any flag with any kind of cargo."
The International Straits Commission was abolished, authorising the full resumption of Turkish military control over the Straits and the refortification of the Dardanelles. Turkey was authorised to close the Straits to all foreign warships in wartime or when it was threatened by aggression; additionally, it was authorised to refuse transit from merchant ships belonging to countries at war with Turkey. A number of highly specific restrictions were imposed on what type of warships are allowed passage. Non-Black Sea state warships in the Straits must be under 15,000 tons. No more than nine non-Black Sea state warships, with a total aggregate tonnage of no more than 30,000 tons, may pass at any one time, and they are permitted to stay in the Black Sea for no longer than twenty-one days.
[Yes, it's Wiki] So that's why only a destroyer, and why only one.
The Convention consists of 29 Articles, four annexes and one protocol. Articles 2–7 consider the passage of merchant ships. Articles 8–22 consider the passage of war vessels. The key principle of freedom of passage and navigation is stated in articles 1 and 2. Article 1 provides that "The High Contracting Parties recognise and affirm the principle of freedom of passage and navigation by sea in the Straits". Article 2 states that "In time of peace, merchant vessels shall enjoy complete freedom of passage and navigation in the Straits, by day and by night, under any flag with any kind of cargo."
The International Straits Commission was abolished, authorising the full resumption of Turkish military control over the Straits and the refortification of the Dardanelles. Turkey was authorised to close the Straits to all foreign warships in wartime or when it was threatened by aggression; additionally, it was authorised to refuse transit from merchant ships belonging to countries at war with Turkey. A number of highly specific restrictions were imposed on what type of warships are allowed passage. Non-Black Sea state warships in the Straits must be under 15,000 tons. No more than nine non-Black Sea state warships, with a total aggregate tonnage of no more than 30,000 tons, may pass at any one time, and they are permitted to stay in the Black Sea for no longer than twenty-one days.
[Yes, it's Wiki] So that's why only a destroyer, and why only one.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 11:01 AM (RD7QR)
93
The idea among Ukrainian and Western officials and experts is Russian President Vladimir Putin is attempting to create in other parts of eastern Ukraine an allusion that ethnic Russians are under threat, thereby justifying him sending in troops to “protect” them.
well hell , hasn't he used that excuse for Georgia, Crimea , Ukraine, how about Alaska, and DC?
well hell , hasn't he used that excuse for Georgia, Crimea , Ukraine, how about Alaska, and DC?
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:02 AM (nqBYe)
Posted by: scottst at April 15, 2014 11:02 AM (Fp9Vt)
95
sending Navy ships in their is senseless anyway, what are they gonna do? It is a display of a fundamental lack of understanding and impotence on obamas behalf.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:02 AM (rDidD)
96
“The Donald Cook is more than capable of defending herself against two SU-24s.”
This.
Posted by: scottst at April 15, 2014 11:02 AM (Fp9Vt)
What about two Russian fast attack subs?
This.
Posted by: scottst at April 15, 2014 11:02 AM (Fp9Vt)
What about two Russian fast attack subs?
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014 11:03 AM (GQ8sn)
97
All it will take is for one person on either side getting jumpy... and then the whole thing goes straight to hell...
Bedford Incident
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (AaZet)
It doesn't have to be from one side or the other.
It could be a 3rd party instigator.
Bedford Incident
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 15, 2014 10:57 AM (AaZet)
It doesn't have to be from one side or the other.
It could be a 3rd party instigator.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 11:03 AM (IXrOn)
98
88 Willow that is the problem. This administration thinks it has a perfect plan. So they have this script.
Which, IIRC from reading things here and elsewhere, they are confounded by Putin's actions - so "19th Century" and all that - because they view "climate change" as the pressing issue on the global stage, both now and for the immediate future.
Barky is coloring inside the lines with his Crayola 8-pack; Vlad is playing multidimensional chess.
88 Willow that is the problem. This administration thinks it has a perfect plan. So they have this script.
Which, IIRC from reading things here and elsewhere, they are confounded by Putin's actions - so "19th Century" and all that - because they view "climate change" as the pressing issue on the global stage, both now and for the immediate future.
Barky is coloring inside the lines with his Crayola 8-pack; Vlad is playing multidimensional chess.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ at April 15, 2014 11:03 AM (HsTG8)
99
"Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least."
The classics never go out of style.
The university faculty in charge of the country right now would do well to remember this.
"Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least."
The classics never go out of style.
The university faculty in charge of the country right now would do well to remember this.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:04 AM (HLprW)
100
well hell , hasn't he used that excuse for Georgia, Crimea , Ukraine, how about Alaska, and DC?
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:02 AM (nqBYe)
Probably try Canada over DC.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:02 AM (nqBYe)
Probably try Canada over DC.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 11:04 AM (IXrOn)
101
Zero Hedge is tweeting some pretty good updates on what's going on in The Ukraine. It does seem that things are about to spin out of control. Even Germany is warning of a European war. I wonder if there is any way we could sit this one out.
Posted by: Truck Monkey at April 15, 2014 11:04 AM (32Ze2)
102
sending Navy ships in their is senseless anyway, what are they gonna do?
------------------------------
Soak up dozens of missiles and torpedos when Putin decides to show the world just how big of a pussy Chicago Jesus is.
------------------------------
Soak up dozens of missiles and torpedos when Putin decides to show the world just how big of a pussy Chicago Jesus is.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 11:04 AM (CJjw5)
103
The Obama administration’s former ambassador to Moscow says Tuesday could be a “scary” and “bloody” day in eastern Ukraine.
Ukrainian officials reportedly have green-lighted counterterrorism operations in that country’s Donetsk region, which in recent days has been the site of violence and allegations that pro-Russia demonstrators and militants were sent there by Moscow.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:50 AM (ZPrif)
And in other news...
The Obama administration’s Leader of the Senate says Tuesday could be a “scary” and “bloody” day in eastern Nevada.
DHS officials reportedly have green-lighted counterterrorism operations in that country’s Nevada region, which in recent days has been the site of threats of violence and allegations that pro-Constitution demonstrators and militants were sent there by Americans.
Ukrainian officials reportedly have green-lighted counterterrorism operations in that country’s Donetsk region, which in recent days has been the site of violence and allegations that pro-Russia demonstrators and militants were sent there by Moscow.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 10:50 AM (ZPrif)
And in other news...
The Obama administration’s Leader of the Senate says Tuesday could be a “scary” and “bloody” day in eastern Nevada.
DHS officials reportedly have green-lighted counterterrorism operations in that country’s Nevada region, which in recent days has been the site of threats of violence and allegations that pro-Constitution demonstrators and militants were sent there by Americans.
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:05 AM (84gbM)
104
I have to make a comment. I did so at The Hill for this same reason.
We're hearing this report that it was "unarmed". Unless they have x-ray vision, they can't make that statement.
The Su-24 may not have had missiles mounted on the hard points but it is equipped with a 23mm rotary cannon and carries 500 rounds. More than enough to bring some grief to any target it chooses.
They are also designed for low level flight and accordingly have a reduced max airspeed due to changes in the airframe to support low level flight.
Which makes them especially useful for those flybys and potentially for an airstrike. I don't know what their ecm or eccm or missile avoidance capabilities are but since they are designed for low level flight well within the engagement envelope of most if not all human or mount launched land/sea to air missiles, I would assume they have advanced capabilities in those areas to decoy and/or destroy any engaging missiles.
I wish so called "journalists" would look up some facts instead of just regurgitating whatever press release they're handed or at least ask questions. (I'm not referring to drew here but the original reporter.)
But this is standard operating procedure by the Russians. They would do the same thing for carrier task forces during the cold war. Fly Bear bomber groups or singly at the task force to see what reaction they would get and how long the response time was.
And I think we've done some similar on occasion with them and other countries.
We're hearing this report that it was "unarmed". Unless they have x-ray vision, they can't make that statement.
The Su-24 may not have had missiles mounted on the hard points but it is equipped with a 23mm rotary cannon and carries 500 rounds. More than enough to bring some grief to any target it chooses.
They are also designed for low level flight and accordingly have a reduced max airspeed due to changes in the airframe to support low level flight.
Which makes them especially useful for those flybys and potentially for an airstrike. I don't know what their ecm or eccm or missile avoidance capabilities are but since they are designed for low level flight well within the engagement envelope of most if not all human or mount launched land/sea to air missiles, I would assume they have advanced capabilities in those areas to decoy and/or destroy any engaging missiles.
I wish so called "journalists" would look up some facts instead of just regurgitating whatever press release they're handed or at least ask questions. (I'm not referring to drew here but the original reporter.)
But this is standard operating procedure by the Russians. They would do the same thing for carrier task forces during the cold war. Fly Bear bomber groups or singly at the task force to see what reaction they would get and how long the response time was.
And I think we've done some similar on occasion with them and other countries.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at April 15, 2014 11:05 AM (JS0vr)
105
What about two Russian fast attack subs?
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014
not likely there are any in the for the same reason we have only one destroyer in there, they cannot get in. may be some kilos or modernized variants.
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014
not likely there are any in the for the same reason we have only one destroyer in there, they cannot get in. may be some kilos or modernized variants.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:05 AM (rDidD)
106
Brennan makes an "unannounced" visit to kiev over the weekend, then kiev's so called "interim" government sends troops to the east on monday(did someone in kiev announce a "state of emergency" that would propell then to send troops and tanks ? i must have missed that..) and then shooting starts on tuesday. what are we doing in ukraine exactly ?
Posted by: runner at April 15, 2014 11:05 AM (yrk2K)
107
Vlad is reading off a different script called Greater Russia.
---
Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:01 AM (APuJ7)
Vlad is going to start to sporting a Charlie Chaplin mustache soon
---
Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:01 AM (APuJ7)
Vlad is going to start to sporting a Charlie Chaplin mustache soon
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 15, 2014 11:05 AM (1Jaio)
108
Yhe Interpreter May that Flat bush Joe links to is really good.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 11:06 AM (ZshNr)
109
15 This is just ridiculous. I can't believe they're acting like this is the 19th century.
Posted by: John Kerry at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (Aif/5)
I think I shall invent the Battlecruiser!
Posted by: John Kerry at April 15, 2014 10:32 AM (Aif/5)
I think I shall invent the Battlecruiser!
Posted by: First Sea Lord Jacky Fischer at April 15, 2014 11:06 AM (exjBN)
110
99
"Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least."
The classics never go out of style.
The university faculty in charge of the country right now would do well to remember this.
---
Those who fail history tend to repeat it.
Hell, even script-writers have figured out that the best way to create easy success is to recycle old stuff, be it crap or classic.
"Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least."
The classics never go out of style.
The university faculty in charge of the country right now would do well to remember this.
---
Those who fail history tend to repeat it.
Hell, even script-writers have figured out that the best way to create easy success is to recycle old stuff, be it crap or classic.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:06 AM (APuJ7)
111
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ ukraine/turchynov-anti-terrorist-operation-has- begun-in-northern-donetsk-343563.html
Ukrainian troops storm Kramatorsk airfield, Sloviansk
5:25 p.m. -- Espresso TV's correspondent on the ground at Kramatorsk airfield in Donetsk Oblast reports that the elite Omega unit of the Interior Ministry has taken control of the airfield.
Citing the Defense Ministry, Interfax is reporting that Ukrainian armored personnel carriers stormed the airfield, which lies between the cities of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. Ukrainian troops fired on pro-Russian terrorists who had occupied the airfield.
Russia Today reported that several members of armed terrorists were wounded in the attack and there "may be deaths."
Quoting "activists" at the airfield, Russia Today reported that "Other members of the militia (Kremlin-backed terrorists) have blocked the entrance to Kramatorsk and are ready to defend the city, the activists added."
Concurrently, RIA Novosti reported that Ukrainian troops had laid siege on Sloviansk.
Interfax cited eye witnesses who said that a caravan of 500 Ukrainian troops and military hardware has entered Sloviansk. -- Isaac Webb
Ukrainian troops storm Kramatorsk airfield, Sloviansk
5:25 p.m. -- Espresso TV's correspondent on the ground at Kramatorsk airfield in Donetsk Oblast reports that the elite Omega unit of the Interior Ministry has taken control of the airfield.
Citing the Defense Ministry, Interfax is reporting that Ukrainian armored personnel carriers stormed the airfield, which lies between the cities of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. Ukrainian troops fired on pro-Russian terrorists who had occupied the airfield.
Russia Today reported that several members of armed terrorists were wounded in the attack and there "may be deaths."
Quoting "activists" at the airfield, Russia Today reported that "Other members of the militia (Kremlin-backed terrorists) have blocked the entrance to Kramatorsk and are ready to defend the city, the activists added."
Concurrently, RIA Novosti reported that Ukrainian troops had laid siege on Sloviansk.
Interfax cited eye witnesses who said that a caravan of 500 Ukrainian troops and military hardware has entered Sloviansk. -- Isaac Webb
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 15, 2014 11:06 AM (ZPrif)
112
107 Vlad is reading off a different script called Greater Russia.
---
Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:01 AM (APuJ7)
Vlad is going to start to sporting a Charlie Chaplin mustache soon
---
Hail hail Hailstone the dictator!
---
Funny, this script seems to be recycled. I think it was used before in the 1940s and 1930s at the least.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:01 AM (APuJ7)
Vlad is going to start to sporting a Charlie Chaplin mustache soon
---
Hail hail Hailstone the dictator!
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:06 AM (APuJ7)
113
Was it PJ O'Rourke who said of standing on the deck of an AEGIS class ship that it could kill everything in a 50 mile radius and that this was the way to waste government money.
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at April 15, 2014 11:06 AM (4fVJ/)
114
30,000 tons and/or nine ships?
Well could deploy nine LCS if you want ducks in a barrel. Or risk USS Zumwalt with one Burke and two LCS for escort/pallbearers.
Well could deploy nine LCS if you want ducks in a barrel. Or risk USS Zumwalt with one Burke and two LCS for escort/pallbearers.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:06 AM (LLb/F)
115
The Interpreter Mag.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 11:07 AM (ZshNr)
116
Posted by: Aviator at April 15, 2014 10:53 AM (jSUU1)
--------
Definitely after, as in "First you will blow me, sugartits"
--------
Definitely after, as in "First you will blow me, sugartits"
Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at April 15, 2014 11:07 AM (F26eZ)
117
Was it PJ O'Rourke who said of standing on the deck of an AEGIS class ship that it could kill everything in a 50 mile radius and that this was the way to waste government money.
------------------------------
Not. Cool.
------------------------------
Not. Cool.
Posted by: Iran Air Flight 655 at April 15, 2014 11:08 AM (CJjw5)
118
94 “The Donald Cook is more than capable of defending herself against two SU-24s.”
If you have the right person in charge on duty, they don't have any other distractions, all the subordinates are well trained, rested, haven't smoked a joint in the last few hours, all the equipment is working perfectly, everyone reacts instantly, no one gets nervous and you're real lucky, then yes, there is a possibility that the destroyer can handle an attack like that.
If you have the right person in charge on duty, they don't have any other distractions, all the subordinates are well trained, rested, haven't smoked a joint in the last few hours, all the equipment is working perfectly, everyone reacts instantly, no one gets nervous and you're real lucky, then yes, there is a possibility that the destroyer can handle an attack like that.
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 11:09 AM (u2a4R)
119
114 30,000 tons and/or nine ships?
Well could deploy nine LCS if you want ducks in a barrel. Or risk USS Zumwalt with one Burke and two LCS for escort/pallbearers.
---
Well, if you want Vlad to find the little man in the boat, feel free to deploy the Clitoral Combat Ships.
Well could deploy nine LCS if you want ducks in a barrel. Or risk USS Zumwalt with one Burke and two LCS for escort/pallbearers.
---
Well, if you want Vlad to find the little man in the boat, feel free to deploy the Clitoral Combat Ships.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:09 AM (APuJ7)
120
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 15, 2014 11:04 AM (CJjw5)
Unfortunately, Wop-loving swamp-boy is 100% correct.
Although the U.S. Navy might have some feelings that are at odds with the current doctrine (head down, cheeks spread) coming out of the White House.
Unfortunately, Wop-loving swamp-boy is 100% correct.
Although the U.S. Navy might have some feelings that are at odds with the current doctrine (head down, cheeks spread) coming out of the White House.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 11:09 AM (QFxY5)
121
If only Hailstone was the dictator, but we got a real operator. The anti Jack Ryan in charge of Russia.
Brandon it gets recycled because its a script that works. Arise ye Russian People!
Brandon it gets recycled because its a script that works. Arise ye Russian People!
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:09 AM (LLb/F)
122
well, the Navy has to have some photos or video of that happened. Given the civilian digital technology I have to believe whoever was in charge of making a determination as to whether the plane was armed or not had something other than real time visual inspection. release the photos.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:10 AM (rDidD)
123
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 15, 2014 10:28 AM (659DL)
I don't think they can get a carrier into the Black Sea. Even if Turkey allowed it.
I don't think they can get a carrier into the Black Sea. Even if Turkey allowed it.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at April 15, 2014 11:10 AM (JS0vr)
124
Would the USN trust an Iranian pilot in the same circumstances? We should be sending the House of Saud a bill for $2 billion a year for protecting their sorry asses.
Posted by: Mr. Dave at April 15, 2014 11:11 AM (bX7ov)
125
6 All it will take is for one person on either side getting jumpy... and then the whole thing goes straight to hell...
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at April 15, 2014 10:29 AM (9LuAk)
The same was true of the Bundy Ranch standoff.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at April 15, 2014 10:29 AM (9LuAk)
The same was true of the Bundy Ranch standoff.
Posted by: rickl at April 15, 2014 11:11 AM (zoehZ)
126
123 Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 15, 2014 10:28 AM (659DL)
I don't think they can get a carrier into the Black Sea. Even if Turkey allowed it.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at April 15, 2014 11:10 AM (JS0vr)
They can't. The treaty won't allow that much tonnage to pass through the straits.
I don't think they can get a carrier into the Black Sea. Even if Turkey allowed it.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at April 15, 2014 11:10 AM (JS0vr)
They can't. The treaty won't allow that much tonnage to pass through the straits.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 11:11 AM (RD7QR)
127
if someone is looking for scripts, why go as far as last century ? perhaps we can look at a script playing out over the last 6 years, but then kiev is not tripoli or cairo
Posted by: runner at April 15, 2014 11:11 AM (yrk2K)
128
I don't think they can get a carrier into the Black Sea. Even if Turkey allowed it.
---
Fuck a carrier. If a few AEGIS can protect themselves from air strikes and has Exocet anti-ship missiles to pre-emptively take out the Black Seas fleet, that's more than enough.
---
Fuck a carrier. If a few AEGIS can protect themselves from air strikes and has Exocet anti-ship missiles to pre-emptively take out the Black Seas fleet, that's more than enough.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:11 AM (APuJ7)
129
I wish so called "journalists" would look up some
facts instead of just regurgitating whatever press release they're
handed or at least ask questions. (I'm not referring to drew here but
the original reporter.)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at April 15, 2014 11:05 AM (JS0vr)
Did
you miss the part where the "journolist" is a retired CO of a USN
destroyer? I'm pretty sure he didn't have to "look up" anything on this
story.
facts instead of just regurgitating whatever press release they're
handed or at least ask questions. (I'm not referring to drew here but
the original reporter.)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at April 15, 2014 11:05 AM (JS0vr)
Did
you miss the part where the "journolist" is a retired CO of a USN
destroyer? I'm pretty sure he didn't have to "look up" anything on this
story.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:12 AM (HLprW)
Posted by: Citizen X at April 15, 2014 11:12 AM (7ObY1)
131
If you have the right person in charge on duty, they don't have any other distractions, all the subordinates are well trained, rested, haven't smoked a joint in the last few hours, all the equipment is working perfectly, everyone reacts instantly, no one gets nervous and you're real lucky, then yes, there is a possibility that the destroyer can handle an attack like that.
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 11:09 AM (u2a4R)
Smoking a joint? I don't think so. Try again
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 11:09 AM (u2a4R)
Smoking a joint? I don't think so. Try again
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:12 AM (t3UFN)
Posted by: maddogg at April 15, 2014 11:12 AM (xWW96)
133
65
58
Barky has presented his red and inflamed hindquarters to Putin lately more often than a rabid female baboon in estrus.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (HsTG
Well it's not THAT inflamed.
Posted by: Michelle
Oh yeah. It is. Now.
58
Barky has presented his red and inflamed hindquarters to Putin lately more often than a rabid female baboon in estrus.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ at April 15, 2014 10:49 AM (HsTG
Well it's not THAT inflamed.
Posted by: Michelle
Oh yeah. It is. Now.
Posted by: Reggie Love, smoking a cigarette at April 15, 2014 11:13 AM (OZmbA)
134
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 11:09 AM (u2a4R)
You really don't know much about anything do you?
You really don't know much about anything do you?
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:13 AM (HLprW)
135
Since I abide by the Moron Way and thus have not read all the comments I presume someone else has noted that in addition to the how's my ass taste of it the goal was also intelligence on ROE and countermeasures.
Putin is all in that no one will stop him. I hope he is wrong. Hope. Not believe.
Putin is all in that no one will stop him. I hope he is wrong. Hope. Not believe.
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at April 15, 2014 11:13 AM (4fVJ/)
136
If the Russians wanted to kill the Destroyer.... they have sensor coverage of the Black Sea.... so they stand off and use P-800 Oniks..... a 180 mile Antiship cruise Missile...
20+ salvo'd from shore.... or Over the Horizon ship or aircraft platforms...
They would not send a single fighter craft...
20+ salvo'd from shore.... or Over the Horizon ship or aircraft platforms...
They would not send a single fighter craft...
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:13 AM (84gbM)
137
even if you could get a carrier into the black sea you should never put a carrier into thg black sea, it is too small a space to operate a carrier and you may not ever get it back out again.
If I were vlad and someone sent a carrier into the black sea I would sink every decrepit rust bucket I could lay my kleptocrattsarwannabe hands and sink em at the entrance to the straits on the black sea side. now whatcha gonna do? sure its nuclear but the rest of your group is not nuclear and you are gonna have to have food.
If I were vlad and someone sent a carrier into the black sea I would sink every decrepit rust bucket I could lay my kleptocrattsarwannabe hands and sink em at the entrance to the straits on the black sea side. now whatcha gonna do? sure its nuclear but the rest of your group is not nuclear and you are gonna have to have food.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:14 AM (rDidD)
138
I don't think they can get a carrier into the Black Sea. Even if Turkey allowed it.
---
Fuck a carrier. If a few AEGIS can protect themselves from air strikes and has Exocet anti-ship missiles to pre-emptively take out the Black Seas fleet, that's more than enough.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:11 AM (APuJ7)
Only a lunatic would put a US Carrier in the constricted waters of the Black Sea and with the choke point of The Turkish Straits/Bosporus linking the Black Sea (and oil coming from the Caspian Sea region) to the Mediterranean (Turkey)
---
Fuck a carrier. If a few AEGIS can protect themselves from air strikes and has Exocet anti-ship missiles to pre-emptively take out the Black Seas fleet, that's more than enough.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:11 AM (APuJ7)
Only a lunatic would put a US Carrier in the constricted waters of the Black Sea and with the choke point of The Turkish Straits/Bosporus linking the Black Sea (and oil coming from the Caspian Sea region) to the Mediterranean (Turkey)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:14 AM (t3UFN)
139
of course perhaps we worry for nothing, and this is all part of the flexibilty we worried about.
and no one was at risk because' this is going as planned.'
and no one was at risk because' this is going as planned.'
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:15 AM (nqBYe)
140
All the questions might have been Vlad's motive alone. He knew the moment that jet took off that it would be all the intelligence/defense officials would be talking about/thinking about for a few days, at least. Probably caused 100 meetings to convene around the world. Dance for Vladimir, puppets, dance!
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 11:15 AM (ZshNr)
141
thanks Truck Monkey
from zero hedge website
Unidentified Fighter Jets Open Fire On Kramatorsk Airfield, Casualties Reported
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/15/2014 - 10:58
Things in east Ukraine have spiraled out of control. Moments ago Itar Tass reported that there has been a shoot out at the separatists-controlled airport in the city of Kramatorsk where according to on the ground witnesses, four Su-27 fighter jets have allegedly opened fire at the local airfield. It is unclear who the unidentified warplanes belong to although Itar Tass notes that one of the jets was allegedly taken down, so there should be confirmation shortly. Eyewitnesses also add that there are victims and an ambulance has been sent to the scene. Itar-Tass also adds that according to the newspaper "News Kramatorsk" three helicopters were circling over Kramatorsk.
from zero hedge website
Unidentified Fighter Jets Open Fire On Kramatorsk Airfield, Casualties Reported
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/15/2014 - 10:58
Things in east Ukraine have spiraled out of control. Moments ago Itar Tass reported that there has been a shoot out at the separatists-controlled airport in the city of Kramatorsk where according to on the ground witnesses, four Su-27 fighter jets have allegedly opened fire at the local airfield. It is unclear who the unidentified warplanes belong to although Itar Tass notes that one of the jets was allegedly taken down, so there should be confirmation shortly. Eyewitnesses also add that there are victims and an ambulance has been sent to the scene. Itar-Tass also adds that according to the newspaper "News Kramatorsk" three helicopters were circling over Kramatorsk.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 11:15 AM (IXrOn)
142
They would not send a single fighter craft...
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:13 AM (84gbM)
And it would be an unambiguous act of war.
Sending one plane and provoking something is very different. They can always argue self-defense.
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:13 AM (84gbM)
And it would be an unambiguous act of war.
Sending one plane and provoking something is very different. They can always argue self-defense.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 11:15 AM (QFxY5)
143
The entire problem is that Putin refuses to let the JEF be clear.
Posted by: Citizen X at April 15, 2014 11:12 AM (7ObY1)
Vlad is probably a racist, homophobe Tea Party member
Posted by: Citizen X at April 15, 2014 11:12 AM (7ObY1)
Vlad is probably a racist, homophobe Tea Party member
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 15, 2014 11:15 AM (1Jaio)
144
well no one meaning us, but also meaning Hi- Hi soviet empire welcome to your old empire becoming new again.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:16 AM (nqBYe)
145
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at April 15, 2014 11:13 AM (4fVJ/)
Actually? I'll bet there were Russian ships in the area....
So this was a textbook test of an DDGs Electronic Warfare capability....
Actually? I'll bet there were Russian ships in the area....
So this was a textbook test of an DDGs Electronic Warfare capability....
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:17 AM (84gbM)
Posted by: Sphynx at April 15, 2014 11:17 AM (OZmbA)
147
Oh, kudos to Drew for making this a non-ironically smart military blog today.
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 15, 2014 11:17 AM (JtwS4)
148
Only a lunatic would put a US Carrier in the
constricted waters of the Black Sea and with the choke point of The
Turkish Straits/Bosporus linking the Black Sea (and oil coming from the
Caspian Sea region) to the Mediterranean (Turkey)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:14 AM (t3UFN)
----
Do *not* give JEF any ideas....
constricted waters of the Black Sea and with the choke point of The
Turkish Straits/Bosporus linking the Black Sea (and oil coming from the
Caspian Sea region) to the Mediterranean (Turkey)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:14 AM (t3UFN)
----
Do *not* give JEF any ideas....
Posted by: fixerupper at April 15, 2014 11:17 AM (nELVU)
149
How does this translate into votes for Conservatives this November?
How does this translate into votes for Conservatives this November?
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:18 AM (HC3oE)
150
146 Does Vlad remind you of some Hollywood actor? Can't put my finger on it.
Maybe, Ed Harris??
---
John Malkovich in Rounders, aka Teddy KGB
Maybe, Ed Harris??
---
John Malkovich in Rounders, aka Teddy KGB
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:18 AM (APuJ7)
151
Dance for Vladimir, puppets, dance!
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 11:15 AM (ZshNr)
Now I have the image of Putin sitting there petting his mini giraffe stuck in my head. Thanks for that.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 11:15 AM (ZshNr)
Now I have the image of Putin sitting there petting his mini giraffe stuck in my head. Thanks for that.
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at April 15, 2014 11:18 AM (4fVJ/)
152
If the SU-24 had come within 1000 meters of the DDG per report, then the 23mm could have shredded the tin-can quite quickly before CIC would even know.
Speaking of the House of Saud. Angela Merkel's government is throwing a spanner into selling Saudi Arabia up to 800 Leopard-2 MBTs.
Speaking of the House of Saud. Angela Merkel's government is throwing a spanner into selling Saudi Arabia up to 800 Leopard-2 MBTs.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:18 AM (LLb/F)
153
New York/New Jersey Moron Meet-up
Thursday, May 1st
6pm-9pm
West Village
All Morons and their handlers are welcome.
for additional info, email me at:
nynjmeet at optimum dot net
New York/New Jersey Moron Meet-up
Thursday, May 1st
6pm-9pm
West Village
All Morons and their handlers are welcome.
for additional info, email me at:
nynjmeet at optimum dot net
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 11:18 AM (QFxY5)
154
92 Access to the Black Sea is governed by the Montreaux Treaty, and the treaty says:
We all went down to Montreaux on the Lake Geneva Shoreline.
We all went down to Montreaux on the Lake Geneva Shoreline.
Posted by: scottst at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (Fp9Vt)
155
alex, He really has a mini Giraffe?
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (nqBYe)
156
In all seriousness I am less concerned about vlad than I am about obama. I understand what vlad is doing I have no idea what obama is doing. vlads motives and goals are clear obamas absolutely opaque.
I have afeeling obama does not know how to dance the tarantala and he is going to make some horrible misstep which is going to signal weakness that vlad will move to capitalize upon or that obama will overreact an everything wills spin out of control.
vlad loves russia, obama is not so hot on America.
I have afeeling obama does not know how to dance the tarantala and he is going to make some horrible misstep which is going to signal weakness that vlad will move to capitalize upon or that obama will overreact an everything wills spin out of control.
vlad loves russia, obama is not so hot on America.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (rDidD)
157
We all went down to Montreaux on the Lake Geneva Shoreline.
Posted by: scottst at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (Fp9Vt)
***golf clap**
well played sir.
Posted by: scottst at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (Fp9Vt)
***golf clap**
well played sir.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 15, 2014 11:20 AM (nELVU)
158
We all went down to Montreaux on the Lake Geneva Shoreline.
---
Frank Zappa and the Mothers
Had the best place around
Till some stupid with a flare gun
Burned the palce to the ground
---
Frank Zappa and the Mothers
Had the best place around
Till some stupid with a flare gun
Burned the palce to the ground
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:20 AM (APuJ7)
159
Putin and obama spoke on the phone today, the TV told me so.
The TV also told me obama asked Putin to return everything to pre-Crimean levels, whatever that means.
Putin and obama spoke on the phone today, the TV told me so.
The TV also told me obama asked Putin to return everything to pre-Crimean levels, whatever that means.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:21 AM (HC3oE)
160
The TV also told me obama asked Putin to return everything to pre-Crimean levels, whatever that means.
---
I think it means that someone just told the Light Brigade to charge.
---
I think it means that someone just told the Light Brigade to charge.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 15, 2014 11:21 AM (APuJ7)
161
alex, He really has a mini Giraffe?
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (nqBYe)
Considering that he stole the Snow Leopard or whatever it was that was being given to the zoo and decided to keep it as a pet it wouldn't surprise me if he has a mini giraffe
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (nqBYe)
Considering that he stole the Snow Leopard or whatever it was that was being given to the zoo and decided to keep it as a pet it wouldn't surprise me if he has a mini giraffe
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at April 15, 2014 11:21 AM (4fVJ/)
162
Using an anti-ship missile to sink USS Donald Cook would leave too much time for the DDG to transmit it is under attack. Too many fingerprints of Russian culpability. Better to strafe and sink the tin-can while sending a private message to the White House to mind its manners or another unfortunate accident will happen.
USS Panay anyone?
USS Panay anyone?
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:22 AM (LLb/F)
163
ok , so internatinal waters, Than we are there to what?
check Vlad's further nationalistic moves towards ?
so we really aren;'t going to check any moves BUT put our guys and gals at risk to pretend Pbama could possibly be painting a pink line he may white out further?
***
I would think there is some value in making a statement about our right and our willingness to be there. It's not provocative to enter international waters however it might be provocative/encouraging to not exercise our rights.
check Vlad's further nationalistic moves towards ?
so we really aren;'t going to check any moves BUT put our guys and gals at risk to pretend Pbama could possibly be painting a pink line he may white out further?
***
I would think there is some value in making a statement about our right and our willingness to be there. It's not provocative to enter international waters however it might be provocative/encouraging to not exercise our rights.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 15, 2014 11:22 AM (DmNpO)
164
159
Putin and obama spoke on the phone today, the TV told me so.
The TV also told me obama asked Putin to return everything to pre-Crimean levels, whatever that means.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:21 AM (HC3oE)
And Vlad said "BWAHAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA!" [gaaaaasp] BWAHAHAHAHA!
Putin and obama spoke on the phone today, the TV told me so.
The TV also told me obama asked Putin to return everything to pre-Crimean levels, whatever that means.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:21 AM (HC3oE)
And Vlad said "BWAHAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA!" [gaaaaasp] BWAHAHAHAHA!
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 11:22 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:23 AM (nqBYe)
166
apparently freedom fighters currently in charge of kiev are now calling protesters in the east "terrorists"...how quaint
Posted by: runner at April 15, 2014 11:23 AM (yrk2K)
167
The TV also told me obama asked Putin to return everything to pre-Crimean levels, whatever that means.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April
unfortunately obamas translator said "pre-cambrian" so vlad said "da" and called up his strategic rocket forces.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April
unfortunately obamas translator said "pre-cambrian" so vlad said "da" and called up his strategic rocket forces.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:23 AM (rDidD)
168
161 Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:19 AM (nqBYe)
Considering that he stole the Snow Leopard or whatever it was that was being given to the zoo and decided to keep it as a pet it wouldn't surprise me if he has a mini giraffe
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at April 15, 2014 11:21 AM (4fVJ/)
isn't a corgi the same thing?
Considering that he stole the Snow Leopard or whatever it was that was being given to the zoo and decided to keep it as a pet it wouldn't surprise me if he has a mini giraffe
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at April 15, 2014 11:21 AM (4fVJ/)
isn't a corgi the same thing?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 15, 2014 11:24 AM (HVff2)
169
For you AlextheChick, to chase out that image of Vlad and his mini-giraffe.
http://tinyurl.com/q262y8f
http://tinyurl.com/q262y8f
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:24 AM (LLb/F)
170
The TV also told me obama asked Putin to return everything to pre-Crimean levels, whatever that means.
----
o_O
.... or.... what?
----
o_O
.... or.... what?
Posted by: fixerupper at April 15, 2014 11:24 AM (nELVU)
171
I will give anyone odds that obama considers cliven a bigger threat than vlad.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:25 AM (rDidD)
172
isn't a corgi the same thing?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 15, 2014 11:24 AM (HVff2)
No, that's a kind of weasel.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 15, 2014 11:24 AM (HVff2)
No, that's a kind of weasel.
Posted by: Obligatory Response at April 15, 2014 11:25 AM (RD7QR)
173
Actually, Putin blamed Ukraine for all the violence and told obama to use U.S. influence to end it.
Actually, Putin blamed Ukraine for all the violence and told obama to use U.S. influence to end it.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:25 AM (HC3oE)
174
Putin does not want to start a war with us. He is just getting back at us for what he perceives as numerous slights to Mother Russia after the fall of the FSU. And in the process build his rep and an as an extra humiliate obama. All in a day's work and they must all laugh their ass's off at night in the Kremlin while drinking Vodka and eating caviar. Good stuff, Good stuff
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:25 AM (t3UFN)
175
Fighter jets and shootdowns today, a few days after buzzing our ship. I guess the air force is now stepping up it's role.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 11:26 AM (ZshNr)
176
SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?
Love to! How about Global Thermonuclear War?
WOULDN'T YOU PREFER A GOOD GAME OF CHESS?
Later. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War.
FINE.
SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?
Love to! How about Global Thermonuclear War?
WOULDN'T YOU PREFER A GOOD GAME OF CHESS?
Later. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War.
FINE.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 15, 2014 11:26 AM (kdS6q)
177
At this point Putin is just screwing with obama. I wonder if he and translator laughed while they were on the phone.
At this point Putin is just screwing with obama. I wonder if he and translator laughed while they were on the phone.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:26 AM (HC3oE)
178
176
SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?
Love to! How about Global Thermonuclear War?
WOULDN'T YOU PREFER A GOOD GAME OF CHESS?
Later. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War.
FINE.
---
LET'S PLAY SOME TETRIS MOTHER FUCKER!
SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?
Love to! How about Global Thermonuclear War?
WOULDN'T YOU PREFER A GOOD GAME OF CHESS?
Later. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War.
FINE.
---
LET'S PLAY SOME TETRIS MOTHER FUCKER!
Posted by: Stephen Hawking's Voice Box at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (APuJ7)
179
Five years to go on retired reserve list.
I can't shake this sudden nagging feeling I'm going to get a recall letter to active duty soon.
I can't shake this sudden nagging feeling I'm going to get a recall letter to active duty soon.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
180
Lawrence O'Donnell and his brother injured in taxi accident while abroad on sex tour.
Posted by: Pug Form 4868 at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (8c12T)
181
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:25 AM (rDidD)
Thats because Cliven is obviously a racist as he has threatened the armed agents of the Imperial Presidunce.
Vlad is just being a 19th century Russian leader, so no problem there!
Thats because Cliven is obviously a racist as he has threatened the armed agents of the Imperial Presidunce.
Vlad is just being a 19th century Russian leader, so no problem there!
Posted by: Hrothgar at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (o3MSL)
182
173
Actually, Putin blamed Ukraine for all the violence and told obama to use U.S. influence to end it.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:25 AM (HC3oE)
Which is probably why Brennan stomped loudly into Kyiv. His job was to plead with the Ukrainians not to escalate the situation and the Ukes told him to eat a bag of dicks.
Actually, Putin blamed Ukraine for all the violence and told obama to use U.S. influence to end it.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:25 AM (HC3oE)
Which is probably why Brennan stomped loudly into Kyiv. His job was to plead with the Ukrainians not to escalate the situation and the Ukes told him to eat a bag of dicks.
Posted by: Obligatory Response at April 15, 2014 11:28 AM (RD7QR)
183
Burn the Witch, i hope that won't happen.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:28 AM (nqBYe)
184
I can't shake this sudden nagging feeling I'm going to get a recall letter to active duty soon.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
Every time I get a phone call from either a DC area code - BUMED- or the phone number of the NOSC I feel the same way. I'd have mixed feekings
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
Every time I get a phone call from either a DC area code - BUMED- or the phone number of the NOSC I feel the same way. I'd have mixed feekings
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:29 AM (t3UFN)
185
Obama's shine box is getting a lot of use lately.
Posted by: Beyond Disgusted at April 15, 2014 11:29 AM (thLL8)
186
I'm out of my service obligations, free and clear, but I have always had a hankering to return to some of those Fulda breweries...
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 15, 2014 11:29 AM (ZshNr)
187
obama ended his phone call with Putin with a lesson on history. obama said, "You know, history doesn't just go forward. History goes sideways and even does loopty loops."
obama ended his phone call with Putin with a lesson on history. obama said, "You know, history doesn't just go forward. History goes sideways and even does loopty loops."
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (HC3oE)
Posted by: Stephen Hawking's Voice Box at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (APuJ7)
189
Posted by: Obligatory Response at April 15, 2014 11:28 AM (RD7QR)
Obama & Kerry must hate it when people believe they are not simply part of the collective but have local interests that conflict with the plans of the ruling class.
Obama & Kerry must hate it when people believe they are not simply part of the collective but have local interests that conflict with the plans of the ruling class.
Posted by: Hrothgar at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (o3MSL)
190
I can't shake this sudden nagging feeling I'm going to get a recall letter to active duty soon.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
I cannot imagine that happening under this president. (seriously)
He's got a Nobel Peace Prize, for goodness sake.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
I cannot imagine that happening under this president. (seriously)
He's got a Nobel Peace Prize, for goodness sake.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (IXrOn)
191
I can't shake this sudden nagging feeling I'm going to get a recall letter to active duty soon.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
That's sooo 19th century!
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
That's sooo 19th century!
Posted by: Hrothgar at April 15, 2014 11:31 AM (o3MSL)
192
I loved 80's comedies. I could do without the 80's drama.
Posted by: Mike at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (r/L31)
193
162 "Using an anti-ship missile to sink USS Donald Cook would leave too much time for the DDG to transmit it is under attack. Too many fingerprints of Russian culpability."
The more likely scenario would be the pilot of a single Mig-29 carrying a Ku-35 anti-ship missile on a "routine" training mission starts screaming into his radio that the U.S. ship is locking their weapons systems on to him.
He begs his air controllers for permission to defend himself as the reckless Americans prepare to fire.
The missile, with 320lbs of shaped charge, dips under the surface just prior to hitting the side of the ship.
Weeks later, Obama goes on TV to announce the late captain of the destroyer has been found guilty posthumously of provoking the Russian.
The more likely scenario would be the pilot of a single Mig-29 carrying a Ku-35 anti-ship missile on a "routine" training mission starts screaming into his radio that the U.S. ship is locking their weapons systems on to him.
He begs his air controllers for permission to defend himself as the reckless Americans prepare to fire.
The missile, with 320lbs of shaped charge, dips under the surface just prior to hitting the side of the ship.
Weeks later, Obama goes on TV to announce the late captain of the destroyer has been found guilty posthumously of provoking the Russian.
Posted by: jwest at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (u2a4R)
194
For the first time in 10 years, Russia last year spent a bigger share of its overall economy on arms investments than the U.S. as it seeks to bolster its military capability, a Swedish arms watchdog said Monday.
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said Russia increased its military spending in 2013 by 4.8 percent to $87.8 billion, representing 4.1 percent of its gross domestic product. Meanwhile, global military spending fell by 1.9 percent in 2013 to $1.7 trillion, as many Western countries cut arms investments following the financial crisis.
SIPRI program director Sam Perlo-Freeman told The Associated Press the increase in Russia is in line with the country’s 2011-2020 State Armaments Plan that aims to spend over $700 billion on modernizing Russia’s military equipment, technology and industry.
“The goal of building up military capability has been seen as more urgent since the Georgia war in 2008, which revealed serious shortcomings in Russia’s military technology and readiness,” he said.
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said Russia increased its military spending in 2013 by 4.8 percent to $87.8 billion, representing 4.1 percent of its gross domestic product. Meanwhile, global military spending fell by 1.9 percent in 2013 to $1.7 trillion, as many Western countries cut arms investments following the financial crisis.
SIPRI program director Sam Perlo-Freeman told The Associated Press the increase in Russia is in line with the country’s 2011-2020 State Armaments Plan that aims to spend over $700 billion on modernizing Russia’s military equipment, technology and industry.
“The goal of building up military capability has been seen as more urgent since the Georgia war in 2008, which revealed serious shortcomings in Russia’s military technology and readiness,” he said.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (t3UFN)
195
I would think there is some value in making a statement about our right and our willingness to be there. It's not provocative to enter international waters however it might be provocative/encouraging to not exercise our rights.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 15, 2014 11:22 AM (DmNpO)
Soooo... it would not be provocative at all for Russia to sit a Missile laden cruiser, off the Coast of ... New York? in International Waters of course....
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 15, 2014 11:22 AM (DmNpO)
Soooo... it would not be provocative at all for Russia to sit a Missile laden cruiser, off the Coast of ... New York? in International Waters of course....
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (84gbM)
196
obama ended his phone call with Putin with a lesson on history. obama said, "You know, history doesn't just go forward. History goes sideways and even does loopty loops."
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (HC3oE)
The irony in this is that Jay Carney was out there saying something like "people think we can just talk and something will get done."
That has been their exact policy for the past 6 years.
The left think they can just talk, and something will happen. Well, the second part of this sentence is correct. Something will happen.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (HC3oE)
The irony in this is that Jay Carney was out there saying something like "people think we can just talk and something will get done."
That has been their exact policy for the past 6 years.
The left think they can just talk, and something will happen. Well, the second part of this sentence is correct. Something will happen.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (IXrOn)
197
So this was a textbook test of an DDGs Electronic Warfare capability....
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:17 AM (84gbM)
Meh, I'm pretty sure Vlad has a good idea of that already. I think he's just testing our training and the longshot hope of us fucking up.
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:17 AM (84gbM)
Meh, I'm pretty sure Vlad has a good idea of that already. I think he's just testing our training and the longshot hope of us fucking up.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (HLprW)
198
Mixed feelings. Already did it once, shooting at someone again isn't real high on my list.
But this IS my country.
Mixed feelings. Already did it once, shooting at someone again isn't real high on my list.
But this IS my country.
Posted by: irongrampa at April 15, 2014 11:33 AM (SAMxH)
199
forward, backwards and sideways.
this looks sideways and backwards for europe and america, but forward for Russia.
this looks sideways and backwards for europe and america, but forward for Russia.
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:33 AM (nqBYe)
200
Hey, isn't it time for Sting to do an update of "The Russians"?
"Mr. Obama says you can keep your doc...I personally that's a load of croc."
"Mr. Obama says you can keep your doc...I personally that's a load of croc."
Posted by: Mike at April 15, 2014 11:33 AM (r/L31)
201
For the first time in 10 years, Russia last year
spent a bigger share of its overall economy on arms investments than the
U.S. as it seeks to bolster its military capability, a Swedish arms
watchdog said Monday.
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said Russia
increased its military spending in 2013 by 4.8 percent to $87.8 billion,
representing 4.1 percent of its gross domestic product. Meanwhile,
global military spending fell by 1.9 percent in 2013 to $1.7 trillion,
as many Western countries cut arms investments following the financial
crisis.
SIPRI program director Sam Perlo-Freeman told The Associated Press
the increase in Russia is in line with the country’s 2011-2020 State
Armaments Plan that aims to spend over $700 billion on modernizing
Russia’s military equipment, technology and industry.
“The goal of building up military capability has been seen as more
urgent since the Georgia war in 2008, which revealed serious
shortcomings in Russia’s military technology and readiness,” he said.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (t3UFN)
That's a lot of .22LR!!!
spent a bigger share of its overall economy on arms investments than the
U.S. as it seeks to bolster its military capability, a Swedish arms
watchdog said Monday.
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said Russia
increased its military spending in 2013 by 4.8 percent to $87.8 billion,
representing 4.1 percent of its gross domestic product. Meanwhile,
global military spending fell by 1.9 percent in 2013 to $1.7 trillion,
as many Western countries cut arms investments following the financial
crisis.
SIPRI program director Sam Perlo-Freeman told The Associated Press
the increase in Russia is in line with the country’s 2011-2020 State
Armaments Plan that aims to spend over $700 billion on modernizing
Russia’s military equipment, technology and industry.
“The goal of building up military capability has been seen as more
urgent since the Georgia war in 2008, which revealed serious
shortcomings in Russia’s military technology and readiness,” he said.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (t3UFN)
That's a lot of .22LR!!!
Posted by: EC at April 15, 2014 11:33 AM (GQ8sn)
202
obama ended his phone call with Putin with a lesson on history. obama said, "You know, history doesn't just go forward. History goes sideways and even does loopty loops."
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (HC3oE)
No one even noticed he was gone.
That was my take on it.
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:30 AM (HC3oE)
No one even noticed he was gone.
That was my take on it.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 11:34 AM (IXrOn)
203
Soooo... it would not be provocative at all for Russia to sit a Missile laden cruiser, off the Coast of ... New York? in International Waters of course....
***
It's only a problem if we're provoked. They've already been within 90 miles of Florida.
***
It's only a problem if we're provoked. They've already been within 90 miles of Florida.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 15, 2014 11:34 AM (DmNpO)
204
I'd have mixed feekings
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:29 AM (t3UFN)
Same here. Under any other CinC, I'd have no reservations about returning to active duty.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:29 AM (t3UFN)
Same here. Under any other CinC, I'd have no reservations about returning to active duty.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:35 AM (HLprW)
205
Bah. Sockoff.
Posted by: joncelli at April 15, 2014 11:35 AM (RD7QR)
206
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said Russia increased its military spending in 2013 by 4.8 percent to $87.8 billion, representing 4.1 percent of its gross domestic product.
half of that was for vodka
half of that was for vodka
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 15, 2014 11:35 AM (IXrOn)
207
If I were recalled to military service would I have to learn Spanish?
Posted by: Beyond Disgusted at April 15, 2014 11:36 AM (thLL8)
208
Obama, "look Vlad, can you be a little more quiet over there, we're busy trying to get a website up to speed"
Posted by: willow at April 15, 2014 11:36 AM (nqBYe)
209
But this IS my country.
Posted by: irongrampa at April 15, 2014 11:33 AM (SAMxH)
'Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong.'
Commodore Stephen Decatur
Posted by: irongrampa at April 15, 2014 11:33 AM (SAMxH)
'Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong.'
Commodore Stephen Decatur
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:36 AM (t3UFN)
Posted by: Soothsayer the Unstompable at April 15, 2014 11:36 AM (HC3oE)
211
Soooo... it would not be provocative at all for Russia to sit a Missile laden cruiser, off the Coast of ... New York? in International Waters of course....
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014
sovs used a have stuff off our coasts all the time. it is less a question of legality and more a question of capability. sending a giant missile laden cruiser to hang around our coasts without air cover is not a smart thing. neither is sending a pair of destroyers into the black sea.
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014
sovs used a have stuff off our coasts all the time. it is less a question of legality and more a question of capability. sending a giant missile laden cruiser to hang around our coasts without air cover is not a smart thing. neither is sending a pair of destroyers into the black sea.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:37 AM (rDidD)
212
184 I can't shake this sudden nagging feeling I'm going to get a recall letter to active duty soon.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
Every time I get a phone call from either a DC area code - BUMED- or the phone number of the NOSC I feel the same way. I'd have mixed feekings
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:29 AM (t3UFN)
I actually put my affairs in order to serve again soon after 9/11.... even spent a lot of range time as I'd had laser surgery on my eyes, and my instinctive shooting was a bit off...
Found out later the VA had declared me as 0% disabled when I retired... so no recall...
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:27 AM (HLprW)
Every time I get a phone call from either a DC area code - BUMED- or the phone number of the NOSC I feel the same way. I'd have mixed feekings
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:29 AM (t3UFN)
I actually put my affairs in order to serve again soon after 9/11.... even spent a lot of range time as I'd had laser surgery on my eyes, and my instinctive shooting was a bit off...
Found out later the VA had declared me as 0% disabled when I retired... so no recall...
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:37 AM (84gbM)
213
Nevergiveup, did you see this article on the loss of a RHINO? About the only thing that went right was they lived. And an -F variant is even more fuel critical than the -E. I hope this pilot got sent back to the RAG to learn his systems.
http://tinyurl.com/q35yufc
As Grandpa Pettibone would say. "Sufferin' succatash boy what were you thinkin?"
http://tinyurl.com/q35yufc
As Grandpa Pettibone would say. "Sufferin' succatash boy what were you thinkin?"
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:38 AM (LLb/F)
214
Same here. Under any other CinC, I'd have no reservations about returning to active duty.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:35 AM (HLprW)
I can't worry about him. It would just be a tad disruptive to my private practice even thought I have made preparations for that. But it is what I signed on for so, I'm ready.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 15, 2014 11:35 AM (HLprW)
I can't worry about him. It would just be a tad disruptive to my private practice even thought I have made preparations for that. But it is what I signed on for so, I'm ready.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:38 AM (t3UFN)
215
I have to admit, I did love Sting's "The Russians."
Posted by: Mike at April 15, 2014 11:40 AM (r/L31)
216
Bumper sticker seen on a Ford pick-up in Baton Rouge this Saturday - "I love my country/I hate my leaders"
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:41 AM (LLb/F)
217
Nood!
Posted by: nnptcgrad at April 15, 2014 11:41 AM (AQtZI)
218
you probably liked "russians" for the first 30 seconds.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:42 AM (rDidD)
219
Soooo... it would not be provocative at all for Russia to sit a Missile laden cruiser, off the Coast of ... New York? in International Waters of course....
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (84gbM)
I agree with you as I have said it before,but I don't see what Russia is doing inand around Ukraineis any different than what the USA has done or would do in the same situations.The difference is the esoteric belief ofintention of good vs the intention of evil.
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:32 AM (84gbM)
I agree with you as I have said it before,but I don't see what Russia is doing inand around Ukraineis any different than what the USA has done or would do in the same situations.The difference is the esoteric belief ofintention of good vs the intention of evil.
Posted by: polynikes at April 15, 2014 11:43 AM (m2CN7)
220
sending a giant missile laden cruiser to hang around our coasts without air cover is not a smart thing. neither is sending a pair of destroyers into the black sea.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:37 AM (rDidD)
Yup.... not smart...
Key is that many here in America do not understand what things look like from THEIR perspective.... how are actions are seen...
We are literally playing on their border in a number of countries.... of course they are going to respond...
Heck.... one US WW1 Trigger was a German Letter to Mexico about possibly basing U-boats in Mexico...
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:37 AM (rDidD)
Yup.... not smart...
Key is that many here in America do not understand what things look like from THEIR perspective.... how are actions are seen...
We are literally playing on their border in a number of countries.... of course they are going to respond...
Heck.... one US WW1 Trigger was a German Letter to Mexico about possibly basing U-boats in Mexico...
Posted by: Romeo13 at April 15, 2014 11:43 AM (84gbM)
221
neither is sending a pair of destroyers into the black sea.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:37 AM (rDidD)
Interestingly, my Dad went into the Black Sea on one of a pair of destroyers. It was USS Turner (DDR-834). The year was 1968.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:37 AM (rDidD)
Interestingly, my Dad went into the Black Sea on one of a pair of destroyers. It was USS Turner (DDR-834). The year was 1968.
Posted by: Country Singer at April 15, 2014 11:44 AM (L8r/r)
222
Nevergiveup, did you see this article on the loss of a RHINO? About the only thing that went right was they lived. And an -F variant is even more fuel critical than the -E. I hope this pilot got sent back to the RAG to learn his systems.
http://tinyurl.com/q35yufc
As Grandpa Pettibone would say. "Sufferin' succatash boy what were you thinkin?"
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:38 AM (LLb/F)
I had not seen that. Tough calls all around.
http://tinyurl.com/q35yufc
As Grandpa Pettibone would say. "Sufferin' succatash boy what were you thinkin?"
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:38 AM (LLb/F)
I had not seen that. Tough calls all around.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 15, 2014 11:45 AM (t3UFN)
223
My favorite part of the song:
"Mr. Reagan says we will protect you. I don't subscribe to that point of view..."
Sting, like so many other of the assholes in the nuclear freeze movement in the 80's, was so damn wrong. They were all bitch-slapped by history. That's what I love about it.
Then again, those same assholes elected Obama. And here we are with Russia. So maybe the jokes on us.
"Mr. Reagan says we will protect you. I don't subscribe to that point of view..."
Sting, like so many other of the assholes in the nuclear freeze movement in the 80's, was so damn wrong. They were all bitch-slapped by history. That's what I love about it.
Then again, those same assholes elected Obama. And here we are with Russia. So maybe the jokes on us.
Posted by: Mike at April 15, 2014 11:46 AM (r/L31)
224
Has anyone asked carney if obama has any concerns about racism and the black sea?
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 15, 2014 11:46 AM (rDidD)
225
Nevergiveup the tough call for the pilot would have been to divert to Khandahar. But it looks like he was influenced to skip the closest base the way the article was written. And since the plane is in the drink we will never know what caused the flame-out of the right engine but if I was betting it finally succumbed to eating part of the refueling hose from the KC-135.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 11:50 AM (LLb/F)
226
Good God Anna, that Rhino pilot really made some bad calls.
Posted by: CDR M at April 15, 2014 12:05 PM (7hmq8)
227
Now imagine that s scenario with a single engine F-35.
Posted by: CDR M at April 15, 2014 12:09 PM (7hmq8)
228
Posted by: CDR M at April 15, 2014 12:05 PM (7hmq
Explain please....this is a smart military blog, after all!
Explain please....this is a smart military blog, after all!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 15, 2014 12:11 PM (QFxY5)
229
"Soooo... it would not be provocative at all for Russia to sit a Missile laden cruiser, off the Coast of ... New York? in International Waters of course.... "
Russian capital ships with their tankers operating outside of the cover of their air force? Yes please!
Russian capital ships with their tankers operating outside of the cover of their air force? Yes please!
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 15, 2014 12:21 PM (5xmd7)
230
CBD, the pilot with one good and one almost good engine almost made it back to the carrier. An F-35 has just one engine. If the pilot can't restart the engine after a fuel induced flame-out, then he is in a whole world of hurt. The F-35 is a glider.
I hear some people going, how can fuel snuff out the engine? The excess fuel is going down the intake that is meant to draw in air, the air that has the oxygen needed for ignition. Will feel more than hear *bang-bang-bang* as the engine misfires. Imagine all those spinning fan blades getting the hiccups. And if just a bit of the hose got sucked in or Heaven forbid part of the basket or even the door over the Super Hornet's refueling probe... such things are not nice to a spinning engine.
I hear some people going, how can fuel snuff out the engine? The excess fuel is going down the intake that is meant to draw in air, the air that has the oxygen needed for ignition. Will feel more than hear *bang-bang-bang* as the engine misfires. Imagine all those spinning fan blades getting the hiccups. And if just a bit of the hose got sucked in or Heaven forbid part of the basket or even the door over the Super Hornet's refueling probe... such things are not nice to a spinning engine.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 12:21 PM (LLb/F)
231
What they could have done to be unkind, is increase the SPY output to maximum and 'dwell' on the bird; this might just zorch them - and their electronics, or really bad luck, the crew ends up making as they say, cruely, FLKs aka funny looking kids.....
Posted by: KenH at April 15, 2014 12:24 PM (Q/K7q)
232
That Rhino pilot should've disregarded what they thought CAG implied by not having a maintenance det on the ground and landed at the nearest suitable airfield. Get home itis never works out well in aviation.
It's painfully obvious this guy needs to study his NATOPS manual a bit more.
It's painfully obvious this guy needs to study his NATOPS manual a bit more.
Posted by: CDR M at April 15, 2014 12:29 PM (7hmq8)
233
CDR M, as I said he needs to be sent back to the RAG to learn his systems. Or have they changed the name since RAG might offend someone, and this Navy can't afford to offend anyone...
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 12:34 PM (LLb/F)
234
'Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong.' Commodore Stephen Decatur
If intercoursing you is wrong, I don't wanna be right...
If intercoursing you is wrong, I don't wanna be right...
Posted by: Luther Ingraham at April 15, 2014 12:41 PM (eAJwE)
235
I think the last time 'get home-itis' worked was when Mike Estocin's Iron Hand A-4 got a hole blasted in its wing while supporting an Alpha Strike over North Vietnam. It was basically towed by the A-3 tanker back to the carrier it was plugged into for fuel while also spewing the fuel out the hole.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 15, 2014 12:50 PM (FbAHC)
236
FC1(SW) Sharpe is manning the CSC (Combat Systems Control) console. She has complete control of the entire Combat System from there. She's right next to the TAO (Tactical Action Officer).
FTR: I'm a retired FCCS(SW/AW), although not of the Aegis track. I am familiar with what CDR McGrath is talking about. I trained these Sailors on these very scenarios; they know what to do.
FTR: I'm a retired FCCS(SW/AW), although not of the Aegis track. I am familiar with what CDR McGrath is talking about. I trained these Sailors on these very scenarios; they know what to do.
Posted by: Buck Farack, Gentleman Adventurer at April 15, 2014 01:33 PM (Nk6GS)
237
Given that any genuine attack would be over-the-horizon, I imagine everyone aboard the Cook relaxed considerably when the Russian plane screamed close by overhead. That's just a friendly hello.
Posted by: Trimegistus at April 15, 2014 01:40 PM (OLgc9)
238
"Aircraft generally carry ammunition inboard. The Su-24 has a gatling
gun that fires 23 mm rounds which could shred the hull of most any
destroyer. All it needs is to get within firing range."
It was well within firing range, what it never was was in proper attack angle.
Had it's approach vector been threatening the Cook would have used it's own gun - a 25 mm Phalanx system - to turn the Fencer into a Black Sea fuel slick.
This was nothing more than empty posturing, we sent that ship there to get exactly the response we got.
gun that fires 23 mm rounds which could shred the hull of most any
destroyer. All it needs is to get within firing range."
It was well within firing range, what it never was was in proper attack angle.
Had it's approach vector been threatening the Cook would have used it's own gun - a 25 mm Phalanx system - to turn the Fencer into a Black Sea fuel slick.
This was nothing more than empty posturing, we sent that ship there to get exactly the response we got.
Posted by: HappyFourth at April 15, 2014 02:21 PM (TLdWD)
239
FRS (Fleet Replacement Squadron) is the new RAG.
Posted by: fly at April 15, 2014 03:05 PM (LHIwy)
240
Posted by: HappyFourth at April 15, 2014 02:21 PM (TLdWD)
Actually, it a 20MM (16mm sabot) PHALANX round.
Woulda fucked him up anyway.
Actually, it a 20MM (16mm sabot) PHALANX round.
Woulda fucked him up anyway.
Posted by: Buck Farack, Gentleman Adventurer at April 15, 2014 03:20 PM (Nk6GS)
241
WTF is this ship doing there in the first place? What room full of Ivy League legacy admissions thought this was a good idea? Why? What? This is just stupid.
Does anyone care that for a thousand years the Crimean Peninsula was part of Russia? That Khrushchev made if part of Ukraine in 1964 by fiat? That almost all the people who live there consider themselves Russian? That when the Soviet Union collapsed, they set up the "independent" Republic of the Crimea, only to be crushed by the Ukrainian army?
Or maybe we should consider that every conceivable issue touching on the Black Sea and its littoral were all solved in the 20th Century?
Does anyone care that for a thousand years the Crimean Peninsula was part of Russia? That Khrushchev made if part of Ukraine in 1964 by fiat? That almost all the people who live there consider themselves Russian? That when the Soviet Union collapsed, they set up the "independent" Republic of the Crimea, only to be crushed by the Ukrainian army?
Or maybe we should consider that every conceivable issue touching on the Black Sea and its littoral were all solved in the 20th Century?
Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at April 15, 2014 05:25 PM (1mtKP)
242
I am not sure if you guys monitor russian news feeds, but they all reported that 27 crew members from USS Donald Cook sign resignation papers and wants to get out of the military after this incident...
Navy trying to hold them by offering additional life insurance coverage of 3 million USD per person but they still want out...
The rest of the crew gets psychologist treatment to stay.
Navy trying to hold them by offering additional life insurance coverage of 3 million USD per person but they still want out...
The rest of the crew gets psychologist treatment to stay.
Posted by: Bordan at April 16, 2014 09:07 AM (b7w4G)
Posted by: gumersindo at April 18, 2014 12:31 PM (Kp/B3)
244
The Donald Cook overstayed its welcome of 21 day's.
The Montreux Convention mandates that ships belonging to countries which do not border the Black Sea can only stay in the region for a maximum period of 21 days.
The US is gearing up for WW3, you idiots can perhaps destroy Russia, But not before Russia turned the US in a smoking ashtray !!!
The Montreux Convention mandates that ships belonging to countries which do not border the Black Sea can only stay in the region for a maximum period of 21 days.
The US is gearing up for WW3, you idiots can perhaps destroy Russia, But not before Russia turned the US in a smoking ashtray !!!
Posted by: R van Amerongen at April 20, 2014 12:46 PM (f4yD4)
245
I read in a foreign article that the SU-24 knocked out the defensive and offensive electronic systems of the Donald Cook. Does anyone know if this really happened?
Posted by: BetyarPali at April 24, 2014 08:11 PM (Bjp1b)
246
I read in a foreign article that the SU-24 used some sort of radio electronic device called HIBINI to knock out the defensive and offensive electronic systems of the Donald Cook. Does anyone know if this really happened?
Posted by: BetyarPali at April 24, 2014 08:21 PM (Bjp1b)
247
"Does anyone know if this really happened?"
The question is whether Russian ECM stopped US defenses.
You have four choices.
1. Believe Russian sources that presumably reflect Russian intelligence sources.
2. Believe US military sources, assuming they say something about it.
3. Believe rumors.
4. Don't decide at this point what to believe yet.
I'm at #4. Russian sources lie. Presumably if it was true the US military would lie about it or say nothing, but if they do say it's true then it is. Rumors out of India etc are worthless.
The question is whether Russian ECM stopped US defenses.
You have four choices.
1. Believe Russian sources that presumably reflect Russian intelligence sources.
2. Believe US military sources, assuming they say something about it.
3. Believe rumors.
4. Don't decide at this point what to believe yet.
I'm at #4. Russian sources lie. Presumably if it was true the US military would lie about it or say nothing, but if they do say it's true then it is. Rumors out of India etc are worthless.
Posted by: J Thomas at April 25, 2014 05:12 AM (BDnjo)
248
Ãîñïîäà ïèíäîñû, âû ìîëèòâû êàêèå íèáóäü çíàåòå?
Ðàçó÷èâàéòå.
Êàêîãî ÷åðòà âû â Óêðàèíó ïîëåçëè - ýòî âàì íå Èðàê íèõåðà, âû ïîòðàòèëè ïÿòü ìèëëèàðäîâ áàêñîâ íà áåñïîðÿäêè â Óêðàèíå, òàì áåãàþò âàøè ÷åðíîâîäíûå íàåìíèêè ( ïðàâäà ïîêà ïðîïàäàþò áåç âåñòè ïà÷êàìè ) è êàêîãî ÷ëåíà âàøèì íàåìíèêàì áåãàòü ïî íàøåé Óêðàèíå, àó ïî÷èòàéòå èñòîðèþ......., à ÑÓøêà íàøà âàì ïðèâåò ïðîñòî ïåðåäîâàëà ......
Ðàçó÷èâàéòå.
Êàêîãî ÷åðòà âû â Óêðàèíó ïîëåçëè - ýòî âàì íå Èðàê íèõåðà, âû ïîòðàòèëè ïÿòü ìèëëèàðäîâ áàêñîâ íà áåñïîðÿäêè â Óêðàèíå, òàì áåãàþò âàøè ÷åðíîâîäíûå íàåìíèêè ( ïðàâäà ïîêà ïðîïàäàþò áåç âåñòè ïà÷êàìè ) è êàêîãî ÷ëåíà âàøèì íàåìíèêàì áåãàòü ïî íàøåé Óêðàèíå, àó ïî÷èòàéòå èñòîðèþ......., à ÑÓøêà íàøà âàì ïðèâåò ïðîñòî ïåðåäîâàëà ......
Posted by: Alex at April 30, 2014 03:18 AM (GIYDN)
249
Ïåíäîñû áîéòèñü Ðóññêèé Äæèõàä ê âàì èä¸ò
Posted by: 2 at May 02, 2014 11:00 AM (qMCmQ)
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