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Palin's Next Step
Obviously, Sarah Palin has a plan. If she were the sort of person who could be swayed by some moron on a blog, my opinion of her would go down a notch. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there now so that I can look back in a year or two and either say "I 'effing nailed it", or "WOW, I didn't see THAT coming".
I'm not sure if I agree with all the "game over, man! GAME OVER!" rhetoric. It's one thing to say that "Sarah Palin can never regain credibility after resigning", but - and please don't take this as criticism towards my gracious bloghost Ace - a blogger who jealously guards his anonymity isn't exactly the right person to tell me about how Sarah Palin should just suck it up and take all the unhinged criticism from cretins like Andrew Sullivan as "part of the job". The extremely vitriolic nature of the criticism directed towards the Palin family is a valid issue. The costs to the taxpayers of Alaska because of all these manufactured ethics complaints is a valid issue. A governor resigning to avoid "phoning it in" while they campaign for higher office is an honorable act. If you care what a bacon-blogger thinks about what Sarah should do next, take the jump & follow me into the extended entry:Here's a quick list of what I think Sarah Palin needs to do if she wants to return to politics in the near future. Now, if her resignation is based on saying "eff this crap" and wanting to spend time with her family and earn money as a conservative motivational speaker like Newt, this list is going to be moot.
1. Sarah Palin needs to stay positive for the time being. She should remain gracious during the transition process, and she should continue to stress the fact that she believes the Lt. Governor is qualified to lead Alaska into the future. Any grumbling about how the left drove her from the office will be spun into showing her to be "Nixon with breasts". Let others be critical of the press, the RINOs and the Democrats for the time being. It's important that she be seen as above the fray until the dust settles. Let bareknuckle brawlers like Ziegler carry her water until the time is right. 2. Sarah Palin needs to work tirelessly on the campaigns of others. If her first act after leaving office is to announce her '12 run for President, her resignation will rightly be seen as a selfish act; however, if she sticks to the "I'm a point guard making all the right passes to help my team win the game" theme put out in her resignation speech, she will increase her influence within the base of the GOP. Plus, work on behalf of conservative candidates in State & legislative races in '10 will allow her to call in those favors during the '12 campaign. 3. Sarah Palin needs to stay as far away from TV punditry as possible. If she immediately accepts a gig on a Huckabee-style talk show, she will be rightly seen as "cashing in" on her fame. That's a bridge that stays burnt among conservative activists, and a move to a Fox News show would take DECADES to overcome if she is truly interested in running for ANOTHER elected office. 4. Sarah Palin needs to keep her distance from the more deranged critics of Obama. The LAST thing she needs right now is a link to Birth Certificate Trutherism, NAFTA Superhighway insanity, or "FEMA Detention Camps for Conservatives" proponents. She should cede that ground to its rightful owner.....RON PAUL, THE ONLY TRUE CONSERVATIVE IN AMERICA. 5. Sarah Palin needs to immediately call a press conference where she praises the wisdom and wit of Bacon-blogger extraordinaire "Russ from Winterset" , a semi-frequent guest poster at the Ace of Spades HQ. It will give her a head start on pandering towards Iowa leading up to the '12 Republican caucus. (WHAT? Like I was going to be completely selfless in compiling this list? You don't know me very well, do you?). Seriously though, a bit of behind the scenes blog outreach might be a wise move at this point. Cultivate the support of the blogosphere without becoming mired in its myriad pissing matches and entanglements, and you can begin to reach out to potential activists who could help you move public opinion in the future. Just don't emulate the left's soulless model, where all the activists are paid mouthpieces with accounts at the SorosCorp company store. Inspire loyalty, don't buy it. 6. Sarah Palin needs to build a team of advisors behind the scenes and begin laying out consistent positions on issues. I think it would be a mistake to wade into the intellectual fray without first making a plan, but she should definitely start building the infrastructure now. This could be a positive image for her. She could be the politician who refused to kill time in elected office while boning up for a Presidential run. People like to feel that they are getting full value and undivided attention from the politicians they elect, whether its a governor or a local zoning board member. This action could help solidify her support from "Tea Party" attendees and others who feel that our current system is broken. 7. Sarah Palin needs to flaunt her sexuality without being seen as flaunting her sexuality. Nothing infuriates America's Foremost OB/GYN Andrew Sullivan more than a vagino-American who believes in Christianity and the sanctity of life, so we can dispense with the idea that she can avoid ALL criticism on this issue. What she can do is keep things classy and elegant. She doesn't need to remind us that she's hot. We've got eyes and functioning brain cells. We already get it. 8. Sarah Palin needs to start building a grassroots movement in early caucus/primary states. The initial purpose of this movement should conform to what I already covered in Point #2 and focus on electing others to office in '10. She should hire small groups of professionals who oversee local volunteers instead of flooding the zone with national experts. And FOR GOD'S SAKE, NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER even CONSIDER hiring any of McCain's former campaingn staffers to help her in this new venture. I have a vivid memory of Tom Selleck appearing on Letterman in '92 and being asked about Ross Perot's presidential campaign. His answer, "it was the right cause, with the wrong leader" stuck with me, and I'd like to see Team Palin avoid the mistakes other grassroots movements have made in the past. 9. Sarah Palin needs to reach out to '08 candidates like Huckabee and Romney in private. I thought the worst part of the Iowa Caucus was the stupid battle between "Mormons and Evangelicals" centered around these two candidates, and Sarah Palin needs to become allies with both of them. Maybe we'll never see Huck & Mitt holding hands and playing nice with each other, but I think its possible that both of them can throw their support behind the same candidate. Team Sarah should also solicit the rest of the '08 GOP field to join her, with two obvious exceptions. Duncan Hunter, Fred Thompson, Rudy Giuliani, Tom Tancredo and Tommy Thompson all have strengths they can bring to the table, and she'd be a fool not to solict their assistance. This is the best I could come up with on short notice, but it will work as a starting point. Now we need to wait and see what Team Palin does next, because as they say: the ball is in her court.Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Russ -
Asking Sarah Palin to run for office again is kind of like asking John McCain to go Blackhawk Down to rescue Jane Fonda ... though in his younger days, he just might.
Asking Sarah Palin to run for office again is kind of like asking John McCain to go Blackhawk Down to rescue Jane Fonda ... though in his younger days, he just might.
Posted by: Adriane at July 04, 2009 04:12 AM (W7nzI)
2
Indeed. This resignation doesn't kill her prospects, but not following it up with a good plan would. And we haven't had time to see the plan unfold yet.
Posted by: Tresjin at July 04, 2009 04:17 AM (l7K0j)
3
No argument here, Adriane. Nobody with half a soul would blame her for saying "Fuck You, America" retreating to spend more time with her family. I just think that breaking the stranglehold that the media beltway insiders have on the GOP right now could be done by someone with a little old fashioned Righteous Indignation on their side.
Right about now, Sarah Palin is the undisputed freakin' covergirl for Righteous Indignation.
Right about now, Sarah Palin is the undisputed freakin' covergirl for Righteous Indignation.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at July 04, 2009 04:17 AM (/MEFr)
4
The extremely vitriolic nature of the criticism directed towards the
Palin family is a valid issue. The costs to the taxpayers of Alaska
because of all these manufactured ethics complaints is a valid issue. A
governor resigning to avoid "phoning it in" while they campaign for
higher office is an honorable act.
Damn straight. Well said. I was appalled that the Corner came up with a list of 10 possible reasons why she quit, and the above didn't even make the list. The only possibility they refused to accept or the actual given and perfectly plausible reasons. What. The. Fuck.
Qwinn
Palin family is a valid issue. The costs to the taxpayers of Alaska
because of all these manufactured ethics complaints is a valid issue. A
governor resigning to avoid "phoning it in" while they campaign for
higher office is an honorable act.
Damn straight. Well said. I was appalled that the Corner came up with a list of 10 possible reasons why she quit, and the above didn't even make the list. The only possibility they refused to accept or the actual given and perfectly plausible reasons. What. The. Fuck.
Qwinn
Posted by: Qwinn at July 04, 2009 04:17 AM (/y1J0)
5
THIRD TIME THIS POST DAMNIT
TO: All Palin Supporters that want her to go-on, or to-do something else.
We all have plans for her, some political, some private life, and I'm sure she has many plans herself.
I think a broader based effort aimed at popular media will have to wait a bit, but only a bit.
Iwould creat something(iniatially from the ranks ACE), others will follow along too. Don't worry, it won't take you away from here for more that a few moments a day.
It will be a private site to keep out the weirdos and the mobies and the Charls Johnsons and his types.
Anyway, my sleeping beer is kicin in now and I'll need to get me a blog space and the templates all worked out later. I want to get on this by Tuesday.
If it sounds like something you would be interested in partipating please get a hold of me in a thread.
TO: All Palin Supporters that want her to go-on, or to-do something else.
We all have plans for her, some political, some private life, and I'm sure she has many plans herself.
I think a broader based effort aimed at popular media will have to wait a bit, but only a bit.
Iwould creat something(iniatially from the ranks ACE), others will follow along too. Don't worry, it won't take you away from here for more that a few moments a day.
It will be a private site to keep out the weirdos and the mobies and the Charls Johnsons and his types.
Anyway, my sleeping beer is kicin in now and I'll need to get me a blog space and the templates all worked out later. I want to get on this by Tuesday.
If it sounds like something you would be interested in partipating please get a hold of me in a thread.
Posted by: Jim from San Diego at July 04, 2009 04:23 AM (H7Rlw)
6
Charles Krauthammer was right. It's a black mark on her record, but she's not finished.
Here's Levin on the Palin resignation.
http://tinyurl.com/mwa9rq
Here's Levin on the Palin resignation.
http://tinyurl.com/mwa9rq
Posted by: The Oort Cloud at July 04, 2009 04:24 AM (MqJKF)
Posted by: Goodbye Sarah at July 04, 2009 04:33 AM (OlnxK)
8
My apologies to the Corner... the purveyor of 10-reasons-excluding-the-given-ones was by Mickey Kaus, not the Corner. Kaus just got quoted there.
However, reading the posts, not one single Corner poster mentioned, in their own words, the ridiculous number of frivolous ethics complaints, and not one mentioned anything about the huge financial cost over it. I mean, what the hell?
Qwinn
However, reading the posts, not one single Corner poster mentioned, in their own words, the ridiculous number of frivolous ethics complaints, and not one mentioned anything about the huge financial cost over it. I mean, what the hell?
Qwinn
Posted by: Qwinn at July 04, 2009 04:35 AM (/y1J0)
9
Russ -
why bother with the GOP at all? Give your money to local conservative candidates or even local conservative causes, ballot initiatives and the like. Looking to reform Washington is still looking to Washington.
Deus ex Machina depends on Deus. Whereas harvesting your own wheat requires only you (well, you, and wheat, and a scythe longer than 4 inches, which hopefully haven't been outlawed to appease the transnationalist ...)
why bother with the GOP at all? Give your money to local conservative candidates or even local conservative causes, ballot initiatives and the like. Looking to reform Washington is still looking to Washington.
Deus ex Machina depends on Deus. Whereas harvesting your own wheat requires only you (well, you, and wheat, and a scythe longer than 4 inches, which hopefully haven't been outlawed to appease the transnationalist ...)
Posted by: Adriane at July 04, 2009 04:38 AM (W7nzI)
10
A career in the media makes the most sense right now. A few years of punditry and policy discussion on FOX or something will help her to maintain her profile, sharpen her up for the next go-round, allow her to shoot spitballs at the DemoKKKrats, and help her to gain insight and anticipate the next bag of media dirty tricks.
Posted by: DrZin at July 04, 2009 04:45 AM (nXbmM)
11
Dont explain: your friends dont need it and your enemies wont believe you anyway.
Posted by: I sea kittens at July 04, 2009 04:57 AM (bAL0J)
12
Great post, Russ, thanks!
I would love to see her campaigning for 2010 GOP candidates to prove that she is the only GOP star right now, and to demonstrate that she can draw crowds and pull in money for the party. That would give her the power in the party, which I hope she will use to crush the country club Republicans and return the party to its roots. (I can dream, can't I?)
I also agree that she should-very carefully-select policy and strategy advisors. Perhaps Karl Rove and John Bolton?
Speaking of Rove, Ican't wait tohear his take on this. Magnificent bastard.
I would love to see her campaigning for 2010 GOP candidates to prove that she is the only GOP star right now, and to demonstrate that she can draw crowds and pull in money for the party. That would give her the power in the party, which I hope she will use to crush the country club Republicans and return the party to its roots. (I can dream, can't I?)
I also agree that she should-very carefully-select policy and strategy advisors. Perhaps Karl Rove and John Bolton?
Speaking of Rove, Ican't wait tohear his take on this. Magnificent bastard.
Posted by: Fluffy McNutter at July 04, 2009 04:58 AM (xMSXs)
13
The problem is the Vichy-republicans.
Posted by: I sea kittens at July 04, 2009 04:59 AM (bAL0J)
14
11 Dont explain: your friends dont need it and your enemies wont believe you anyway.
True. Her enemies would bemaking the same chargesno matter what reason she gave for resigning.
True. Her enemies would bemaking the same chargesno matter what reason she gave for resigning.
Posted by: Fluffy McNutter at July 04, 2009 05:04 AM (xMSXs)
15
Vichy-republicans
Perfect! Dead on.
Perfect! Dead on.
Posted by: Fluffy McNutter at July 04, 2009 05:07 AM (xMSXs)
16
Tiffany Jewellery much anticipated addition to the Sweetie jewellery collection are the bright and beautiful Tiffany.
Posted by: Tiffany at July 04, 2009 05:12 AM (fRkuf)
17
I don't think it's just one ot two blogs. She looked very tired in her announcement (IMO). Maybe she's thinking it's not worth the attacks on her family. The attacks on her kids were totally unfair, especially all this nonsense about Trig.
She always strck me as a bit naive about the dirty side of politics, and to make such a sudden announcement on a holiday weekend also reinforces that. And if she does run you can bet your house that the Dems will make a lot of hay with this.
She always strck me as a bit naive about the dirty side of politics, and to make such a sudden announcement on a holiday weekend also reinforces that. And if she does run you can bet your house that the Dems will make a lot of hay with this.
Posted by: JEA at July 04, 2009 05:18 AM (yxegH)
18
The reason I disagree with the "Game over, Man, GAME OVER" response is because it could become a self fulfilling prophecy. Certain pundits will likely give Sarah Palin less attention, less interest than otherwise no matter what she is doing just because they predicted she's toast. She has been dismissed. They've declared her toast and don't want to even consider she might not be toast. They don't want to admit being wrong, you see.
You will perhaps notice this criticism may apply to conclusion jumping no matter on which conclusion one has jumped.
The reason I disagree with the "Game over, Man, GAME OVER" response is because it could become a self fulfilling prophecy. Certain pundits will likely give Sarah Palin less attention, less interest than otherwise no matter what she is doing just because they predicted she's toast. She has been dismissed. They've declared her toast and don't want to even consider she might not be toast. They don't want to admit being wrong, you see.
You will perhaps notice this criticism may apply to conclusion jumping no matter on which conclusion one has jumped.
Posted by: klrtz1 at July 04, 2009 05:23 AM (o0rGP)
19
Yeah okay, JEA, go ahead and crank up that Moby on yer playlist...
Posted by: The Drunken Conservative at July 04, 2009 06:07 AM (1gsL9)
20
Here's my theory:
Palin is leaving formal politics to head the Alaska Secessionist party. Soon, she'll be descending on the lower 48 states like Daenarys Targaryen from Game of Thrones.
Palin is leaving formal politics to head the Alaska Secessionist party. Soon, she'll be descending on the lower 48 states like Daenarys Targaryen from Game of Thrones.
Posted by: Gringo at July 04, 2009 06:12 AM (ifLj8)
21
JEA is correct about the dems making hay about the pre-holiday timing. My Obama-worshiping brother-in-law, as usual, got up early to start posting wall to wall conspiracy coverage on his Facebook page.
Oort@6. Thanks for posting the Levin link, which is recommended listening. Palin's tough cookie, and she's smart enough to know the slings and arrows this will attract. Hearing Levin's cut on it gave me hope, particularly the part about the frivolous ethics crap.
It was also interesting to hear an excerpt from that part of the speech, arguably the most powerful part of it, rather than the way CNN cut-and-pasted soundbites to try to make her sound incoherent. Stay classy, CNN!
Oort@6. Thanks for posting the Levin link, which is recommended listening. Palin's tough cookie, and she's smart enough to know the slings and arrows this will attract. Hearing Levin's cut on it gave me hope, particularly the part about the frivolous ethics crap.
It was also interesting to hear an excerpt from that part of the speech, arguably the most powerful part of it, rather than the way CNN cut-and-pasted soundbites to try to make her sound incoherent. Stay classy, CNN!
Posted by: jakeman at July 04, 2009 06:27 AM (DyROQ)
22
The only people who afre pushing this game over BS are the same people who were against her to begin with. Either Democraps or squishy Romneyites.
Ace and Drew both jumped on the over bandwagon and the arguments both put forth were ironically the same as that of the Dem Party. If you are professing to be a conservative and you find yourself making the same argument the Dems are making you need to question something.
Ace and Drew both jumped on the over bandwagon and the arguments both put forth were ironically the same as that of the Dem Party. If you are professing to be a conservative and you find yourself making the same argument the Dems are making you need to question something.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 06:29 AM (5ynkO)
23
Isn't it time we followed Reagan's 11th Commandment again?
"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."Interesting history behind that quote. Seems really familiar too, doesn't it?
It's simple really. Eating our own hasn't worked. How about we try something a little unusual now and not assume the worst? How about we consider taking Palin's statement at face value and not give in to those who insist the boogeyman's around the corner?
If there is something bad, let's deal with it then instead of insisting that her not walking lockstep with the insiders' view for her role is a sign of the apocalypse.
And you know...I'd like to see an unapologetic conservative like Palin get a little more by way of fair treatment from her own party and from those who ostensibly agrees with her core issues.
"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."Interesting history behind that quote. Seems really familiar too, doesn't it?
It's simple really. Eating our own hasn't worked. How about we try something a little unusual now and not assume the worst? How about we consider taking Palin's statement at face value and not give in to those who insist the boogeyman's around the corner?
If there is something bad, let's deal with it then instead of insisting that her not walking lockstep with the insiders' view for her role is a sign of the apocalypse.
And you know...I'd like to see an unapologetic conservative like Palin get a little more by way of fair treatment from her own party and from those who ostensibly agrees with her core issues.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 04, 2009 06:42 AM (JPEqm)
24
I'm glad we're all experts on what it takes for someone to get elected POTUS.
That worked out well the last time didn't it?
That worked out well the last time didn't it?
Posted by: Gun Bunny at July 04, 2009 06:43 AM (8tl6j)
25
LikeGeraghty, I think she's implementing the Cartman Plan: Screw you guys, I'm going home.
I live in Alaska, and not DC, for a reason.
I live in Alaska, and not DC, for a reason.
Posted by: FUBAR at July 04, 2009 06:44 AM (J5Srq)
26
I'd add, "Hire Bill Whittle as a speech writer."
I think she's taking "No more politics as usual." and going big time with that as her guiding principle. It's her theme. It might as well be her campaign slogan. If the political class says that she should do X, she'll do Y.
I trust Sarah's conservative instincts. That's the bottom line. She will figure out how to get the conservative message out directly to the people. There's a center-right majority in this country. She'll get a majority of disaffected Republicans, independents, and Democrats. She will.
If she wants to.
I think she's taking "No more politics as usual." and going big time with that as her guiding principle. It's her theme. It might as well be her campaign slogan. If the political class says that she should do X, she'll do Y.
I trust Sarah's conservative instincts. That's the bottom line. She will figure out how to get the conservative message out directly to the people. There's a center-right majority in this country. She'll get a majority of disaffected Republicans, independents, and Democrats. She will.
If she wants to.
Posted by: benjamin at July 04, 2009 06:54 AM (jjlGZ)
27
If Obama's theme was change, Sarah can win with, "Enough!"
Posted by: benjamin at July 04, 2009 06:56 AM (jjlGZ)
28
The Kenyan is gonna use the NAFTA Superhighway to move the Ron Paulians to FEMA camps.
There. I said it.
There. I said it.
Posted by: torabora at July 04, 2009 07:03 AM (Sou2P)
29
Here is what she should do: take a 6 figure job as executive director of Special Olympics or some other non-profit related to Down's Syndrome.
She could #1 do a lot for the cause of the children, get in a position where only the most tasteless would continueto criticize,make a pot of money, be in the public eye as much as she cares to, and later, if she is interested at all, be the candidate for the Tea Party. Screw the Republican Party. It has jumped the shark.
She could #1 do a lot for the cause of the children, get in a position where only the most tasteless would continueto criticize,make a pot of money, be in the public eye as much as she cares to, and later, if she is interested at all, be the candidate for the Tea Party. Screw the Republican Party. It has jumped the shark.
Posted by: blaster at July 04, 2009 07:07 AM (7m3zg)
30
I speak as a hardcore conservative that lovwd Saracuda to death...
It's over.
There IS no "plan."
I suspected as much for a while now. Where were position papers, the serious interviews, the speeches staking her positions out on the major issues of our times?
The fact her own PAC site had a link for donating money, but no policy statements, spoke miles.
I'll miss her... But it's time to move on.
It's over.
There IS no "plan."
I suspected as much for a while now. Where were position papers, the serious interviews, the speeches staking her positions out on the major issues of our times?
The fact her own PAC site had a link for donating money, but no policy statements, spoke miles.
I'll miss her... But it's time to move on.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 07:10 AM (teBup)
31
The fact that this is the 5th thread about her since 1:30 yesterday and there have been 2392 comments posted shows that it is most certainly NOT over.
If she announced an event in Bumf8ct, Iowa the day after her resignation goes into effect she would draw 1000s from hundreds of miles around.
If she announced an event in Bumf8ct, Iowa the day after her resignation goes into effect she would draw 1000s from hundreds of miles around.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 07:14 AM (5ynkO)
32
Fuck it all. Sarah won't seek a higher office, folks, and stop being stupid. She will campaign for R's, especially social cons, because she's an electric personality. Honestly I thought she was the most awesome pick form the McCain camp, and then they let her go to the wolves.
It's as though the Bushies in his campaign did not understand, and then convinced him, that WHOOPS! she was not the best pick.
Of course, these are the same douchebag Bushies tha undermined his 2000 campaign...
Call me opinionated. His wife worked with Operation Smiles. His adopted daughter had a cleft lip and palate. I'm adopted. My daughter has a cleft lip and palate, and I went to considerable lengths to get her back here into the States, including screaming at foreign official *in their country* to their faces. To this day I am forever grateful to some State department employees who may have bent some rules to help me get my daughter home.
It's as though the Bushies in his campaign did not understand, and then convinced him, that WHOOPS! she was not the best pick.
Of course, these are the same douchebag Bushies tha undermined his 2000 campaign...
Call me opinionated. His wife worked with Operation Smiles. His adopted daughter had a cleft lip and palate. I'm adopted. My daughter has a cleft lip and palate, and I went to considerable lengths to get her back here into the States, including screaming at foreign official *in their country* to their faces. To this day I am forever grateful to some State department employees who may have bent some rules to help me get my daughter home.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 07:17 AM (E/X9t)
33
I think feminists hate her because her husbands secret service name was "Driller", and feminist dream that their pussified husbands could bear such a manly, sexualized name.
Posted by: Pinochet at July 04, 2009 07:17 AM (aQPSa)
34
Russ seems to be somewhere twixt the denial and bargaining stages of the grieving process.
Posted by: V the K at July 04, 2009 07:19 AM (d2fuu)
35
It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.
And that she ain't.
It takes a feckless male to not stand by his woman when she puts her foot down with determination.
I support Palin, whatever her plans are.
And that she ain't.
It takes a feckless male to not stand by his woman when she puts her foot down with determination.
I support Palin, whatever her plans are.
Posted by: maverick muse at July 04, 2009 07:25 AM (F1b/5)
36
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." - Yeats
I would have no problem with Palin taking the "fuck you America, I've had enough" tack. She's earned the right to do that, and maybe the public needs to have their faces rubbed into the Obama disaster a little bit a few years down the road when its full catastrophic impact starts to become undeniable even for the KoolAid guzzling faithful.
Nixon, Watergate aside, was arguably one of the best American presidents of the 20th century - he got the broad strokes right, and got them right in ways that held up over the next 35 years.
- He got us out of Vietnam with a win in hand (which the democrats fecklessly threw away later, but it was a booked win at the time)
- He thawed the rift with China. Where would we be today without China backing our monstrous debt plays? Tre-fucked, that's where. Where would the public be without Dollar Tree and Big Lots to help them through this recession? Fucked. That's where. Yea, there's the lead paint, bad sheetrock, etc issues, but those are the sort of industrial QC growing pains every transitional industrial nation goes through. The USA went through it in the 1800's and early 1900's, Japan went through it right after WWII when they were rebuilding, etc, etc. Shipping garbage is a fact of life until internal quality standards catch up with export customer quality expectations.
I'm willing to give Palin a few, or 20 years to mellow before writing her off. She could be the next Nixon.
I would have no problem with Palin taking the "fuck you America, I've had enough" tack. She's earned the right to do that, and maybe the public needs to have their faces rubbed into the Obama disaster a little bit a few years down the road when its full catastrophic impact starts to become undeniable even for the KoolAid guzzling faithful.
Nixon, Watergate aside, was arguably one of the best American presidents of the 20th century - he got the broad strokes right, and got them right in ways that held up over the next 35 years.
- He got us out of Vietnam with a win in hand (which the democrats fecklessly threw away later, but it was a booked win at the time)
- He thawed the rift with China. Where would we be today without China backing our monstrous debt plays? Tre-fucked, that's where. Where would the public be without Dollar Tree and Big Lots to help them through this recession? Fucked. That's where. Yea, there's the lead paint, bad sheetrock, etc issues, but those are the sort of industrial QC growing pains every transitional industrial nation goes through. The USA went through it in the 1800's and early 1900's, Japan went through it right after WWII when they were rebuilding, etc, etc. Shipping garbage is a fact of life until internal quality standards catch up with export customer quality expectations.
I'm willing to give Palin a few, or 20 years to mellow before writing her off. She could be the next Nixon.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 07:25 AM (g/H5G)
37
I don't know what Sarah Palin's long term plans are. What I do know is the following: that the criticisms leveled at her in some respects are without merit in light of the advent of The One, Barack Obama.
Specifically: (1) she has no foreign policy experience. Palin has more than Obama did. (2) She didn't complete her full term as governor. Neither did he - he started running after his first year in the Senate, and had two years left in his term. (3) She's not "up to speed" on major issues. Obama has admitted that it took him abut 4 months of full time study to be able to talk like he did. It is clear that he's still not comfortable with foreign policy.
My advice to her is not to accept these criticisms, and simply point the press back to their glowing coverage of Obama, and their assurances that his lack of knowledge, experience, and legislative accomplishments did not matter.
Specifically: (1) she has no foreign policy experience. Palin has more than Obama did. (2) She didn't complete her full term as governor. Neither did he - he started running after his first year in the Senate, and had two years left in his term. (3) She's not "up to speed" on major issues. Obama has admitted that it took him abut 4 months of full time study to be able to talk like he did. It is clear that he's still not comfortable with foreign policy.
My advice to her is not to accept these criticisms, and simply point the press back to their glowing coverage of Obama, and their assurances that his lack of knowledge, experience, and legislative accomplishments did not matter.
Posted by: KC at July 04, 2009 07:25 AM (K3HDV)
Posted by: maverick muse at July 04, 2009 07:27 AM (F1b/5)
39
Quitters never win and winners never quit.
It's over for her on the national front. I like her, but this will leave a mark she won't be able to overcome. Unless she comes up with a more plausible reason.
It's over for her on the national front. I like her, but this will leave a mark she won't be able to overcome. Unless she comes up with a more plausible reason.
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 07:28 AM (dlVvB)
40
Posted by: Pecos Bill
I love the timing.
Wait till the vapid network shellac heads have their botoxed pusses over a mirror full of blow in the Hamptons.
Kudos, Rove.
Rove, you magnificent bastard!
A giant FU to the media.
I love the timing.
Wait till the vapid network shellac heads have their botoxed pusses over a mirror full of blow in the Hamptons.
Kudos, Rove.
Rove, you magnificent bastard!
A giant FU to the media.
Posted by: loppyd at July 04, 2009 07:29 AM (UJIeT)
41
Where would we be today without China backing our monstrous debt plays?
With a lot less debt and a smaller government?
With a lot less debt and a smaller government?
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 07:30 AM (+d5Ab)
Posted by: Phinn at July 04, 2009 07:30 AM (7Uoki)
43
It's over for her on the national front.
Yea, they said that about Nixon too after he lost the CA gov race, and Churchill was washed up until that Hitler chap came along.
Yea, they said that about Nixon too after he lost the CA gov race, and Churchill was washed up until that Hitler chap came along.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 07:31 AM (g/H5G)
44
With a lot less debt and a smaller government?
Politicians acting responsibly...that's a joke right?
Politicians acting responsibly...that's a joke right?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 07:32 AM (g/H5G)
45
It's over for her on the national front.
Yea,
they said that about Nixon too after he lost the CA gov race, and
Churchill was washed up until that Hitler chap came along.
Good point. Who decides if she is "over" anyway? The voters.
The media will push this meme hard in an effort to keep her down. She scares the bejesus out of them...
Yea,
they said that about Nixon too after he lost the CA gov race, and
Churchill was washed up until that Hitler chap came along.
Good point. Who decides if she is "over" anyway? The voters.
The media will push this meme hard in an effort to keep her down. She scares the bejesus out of them...
Posted by: loppyd at July 04, 2009 07:33 AM (UJIeT)
46
I'm done with it all. I'm sick of feeling besieged by the unrelenting attacks by the media and democrats, and yet here Republicans sit behind the barricades eating their own. Our country is so screwed, while the RNC won't fight against Obama and the Congress, nor will they bother defending their own. I'm just done.
Posted by: freemo at July 04, 2009 07:34 AM (lJD8E)
47
Nixon lost the Gov race - he didn't quit. Quitting takes on a different flavor. Like I said, I like Palin.A lot. But this will be hard to overcome.
I hate how the media has treated her. I wish her all the best. I hope she proves me wrong.
I hate how the media has treated her. I wish her all the best. I hope she proves me wrong.
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 07:37 AM (dlVvB)
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 07:39 AM (+d5Ab)
49
Nixon, Watergate aside, was arguably one of the best American presidents of the 20th century - he got the broad strokes right, and got them right in ways that held up over the next 35 years.
Not in the Reupublican sense, but I'm listening.
- He got us out of Vietnam with a win in hand (which the democrats fecklessly threw away later, but it was a booked win at the time)
It means nothing if it isn't chalked up. There were other ways to end that war, especialy after Linebacker II. I.e., don't go beyond this line or we nuke you. It kept the Norks in line, why not N Vietnam? Simple. We just plain wanted out, and we did not give a fuck who died as a result. To our eternal discredit.
- He thawed the rift with China. Where would we be today without China backing our monstrous debt plays? Tre-fucked, that's where. Where would the public be without Dollar Tree and Big Lots to help them through this recession? Fucked. That's where. Yea, there's the lead paint, bad sheetrock, etc issues, but those are the sort of industrial QC growing pains every transitional industrial nation goes through. The USA went through it in the 1800's and early 1900's, Japan went through it right after WWII when they were rebuilding, etc, etc. Shipping garbage is a fact of life until internal quality standards catch up with export customer quality expectations.
Let me fucking get this shit straight - opening up China to our country offshoring manufacturing was awesome? ZOMG. No wonder the fucking Dems keep winning. Offshoring our manufacturing capability - ie, our value-added industries - is a FUCKING NET LOSER FOR AMERICA, dumbass. FOR FUCKS SAKE!!! Shipping raw materials off to another country to get processed into durable goods is no way to run an ecomony, son.
I'm willing to give Palin a few, or 20 years to mellow before writing her off. She could be the next Nixon.
She won't. She'll be campaigning in 2010, just not for herself. And I hope to all get out that she is not the next Nixon, because I fucking doubt the Republican party could survive that.
Not in the Reupublican sense, but I'm listening.
- He got us out of Vietnam with a win in hand (which the democrats fecklessly threw away later, but it was a booked win at the time)
It means nothing if it isn't chalked up. There were other ways to end that war, especialy after Linebacker II. I.e., don't go beyond this line or we nuke you. It kept the Norks in line, why not N Vietnam? Simple. We just plain wanted out, and we did not give a fuck who died as a result. To our eternal discredit.
- He thawed the rift with China. Where would we be today without China backing our monstrous debt plays? Tre-fucked, that's where. Where would the public be without Dollar Tree and Big Lots to help them through this recession? Fucked. That's where. Yea, there's the lead paint, bad sheetrock, etc issues, but those are the sort of industrial QC growing pains every transitional industrial nation goes through. The USA went through it in the 1800's and early 1900's, Japan went through it right after WWII when they were rebuilding, etc, etc. Shipping garbage is a fact of life until internal quality standards catch up with export customer quality expectations.
Let me fucking get this shit straight - opening up China to our country offshoring manufacturing was awesome? ZOMG. No wonder the fucking Dems keep winning. Offshoring our manufacturing capability - ie, our value-added industries - is a FUCKING NET LOSER FOR AMERICA, dumbass. FOR FUCKS SAKE!!! Shipping raw materials off to another country to get processed into durable goods is no way to run an ecomony, son.
I'm willing to give Palin a few, or 20 years to mellow before writing her off. She could be the next Nixon.
She won't. She'll be campaigning in 2010, just not for herself. And I hope to all get out that she is not the next Nixon, because I fucking doubt the Republican party could survive that.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 07:40 AM (E/X9t)
50
Happy 4th of July morons!
I'll say it everyday I support Sarah 200%, and I will vote for her without even blinking, no matter what!
I'll say it everyday I support Sarah 200%, and I will vote for her without even blinking, no matter what!
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at July 04, 2009 07:41 AM (Nj9Dm)
51
I read the transcript of her speech last night, and after thinking more
and more about it, my guess is that she's not going to be running for
office any time soon but will be doing something vastly more important.
Consider the following:
1. There are more people registered as Independent than are registered
as either Democrat or Republican. Both parties are losing members.
2. The recent Gallup poll shows that 40% of respondents identify themselves as conservative.
3. There is no conservative party at this time. The Republican party
hasn't been reliably conservative for at least 10 years and the
Republican establishment is working hard to change the definition of
conservatism while expunging actual conservatism from the party.
4. There is no leader of the conservative movement. Rush
Limbaugh has been erroneously considered the leader by the media, but
this just shows the depth of the crisis. He's a commentator and not a
politician and the conservative movement needs a political figure as
its head.
5. Last fall showed that the base had far more energy for Sarah than
for her running mate, who was the choice of the Republican
establishment.
6. The tea parties this year have shown that there is great dissatisfaction with establishment politics.
7. While many loathe or claim to loathe the two party system, the
reality is that third party candidates are spoilers and usually end up
electing the opposite of what they've run against. The most recent
examples are Ross Perot in 1992, and to a limited extent, Ralph Nader
in 2000.
Where do I think her future may be? In 2000 Howard Dean acted like a
lunatic after losing the Iowa caucus in 2004 and every pundit said he
was finished with politics. He's now the head of the DNC and chiefly
reponsible (along with George Bush) for getting the Democrats back in
control of the White House and the Congress.
Given Sarah's announcement yesterday, including the references to point
guard, advancing in another direction, ending "politics as usual", I hope she's decided to take over the reins of the conservative
movement. The first order of business would be to eliminate the establishment
Republicans and you do this by getting down to the grassroots, raising
money, and supporting actual conservative candidates. In a political sense, the establishment Republicans need to be lined up against a wall and shot. Sarah has charisma and energy and her entire political career has been grassroots so she would be the perfect person to get the ball rolling. I would love to
see her team up with Jim DeMint's PAC, the Club for Growth, and other
conservative groups to fund and support conservative candidates next
year. She could start by supporting primary candidates against the eight
cap-and-traitors, but the biggest target would be Charlie Crist.
DeMint has already endorsed Marco Rubio and earlier this week claimed
that he has two major contributors to the Republican party ready
to back Rubio. Sarah is the most recognizable Republican and if she jumped in and
campaigned for Rubio it would bring him instant attention in the state.Winning the nomination for Rubio would be a very strong statement, given
that Cornyn and the RNC both jumped in immediately to endorse Crist.
Whether or not she runs for office again is immaterial to me because I think she has a bigger role to play. I want her to forge a true conservative party, and to start that off she needs to go RINO hunting.
and more about it, my guess is that she's not going to be running for
office any time soon but will be doing something vastly more important.
Consider the following:
1. There are more people registered as Independent than are registered
as either Democrat or Republican. Both parties are losing members.
2. The recent Gallup poll shows that 40% of respondents identify themselves as conservative.
3. There is no conservative party at this time. The Republican party
hasn't been reliably conservative for at least 10 years and the
Republican establishment is working hard to change the definition of
conservatism while expunging actual conservatism from the party.
4. There is no leader of the conservative movement. Rush
Limbaugh has been erroneously considered the leader by the media, but
this just shows the depth of the crisis. He's a commentator and not a
politician and the conservative movement needs a political figure as
its head.
5. Last fall showed that the base had far more energy for Sarah than
for her running mate, who was the choice of the Republican
establishment.
6. The tea parties this year have shown that there is great dissatisfaction with establishment politics.
7. While many loathe or claim to loathe the two party system, the
reality is that third party candidates are spoilers and usually end up
electing the opposite of what they've run against. The most recent
examples are Ross Perot in 1992, and to a limited extent, Ralph Nader
in 2000.
Where do I think her future may be? In 2000 Howard Dean acted like a
lunatic after losing the Iowa caucus in 2004 and every pundit said he
was finished with politics. He's now the head of the DNC and chiefly
reponsible (along with George Bush) for getting the Democrats back in
control of the White House and the Congress.
Given Sarah's announcement yesterday, including the references to point
guard, advancing in another direction, ending "politics as usual", I hope she's decided to take over the reins of the conservative
movement. The first order of business would be to eliminate the establishment
Republicans and you do this by getting down to the grassroots, raising
money, and supporting actual conservative candidates. In a political sense, the establishment Republicans need to be lined up against a wall and shot. Sarah has charisma and energy and her entire political career has been grassroots so she would be the perfect person to get the ball rolling. I would love to
see her team up with Jim DeMint's PAC, the Club for Growth, and other
conservative groups to fund and support conservative candidates next
year. She could start by supporting primary candidates against the eight
cap-and-traitors, but the biggest target would be Charlie Crist.
DeMint has already endorsed Marco Rubio and earlier this week claimed
that he has two major contributors to the Republican party ready
to back Rubio. Sarah is the most recognizable Republican and if she jumped in and
campaigned for Rubio it would bring him instant attention in the state.Winning the nomination for Rubio would be a very strong statement, given
that Cornyn and the RNC both jumped in immediately to endorse Crist.
Whether or not she runs for office again is immaterial to me because I think she has a bigger role to play. I want her to forge a true conservative party, and to start that off she needs to go RINO hunting.
Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at July 04, 2009 07:44 AM (gEU82)
52
I hope y'all will take time out to think about our Troops as you slobber over bbq today, remember what they are doing while you are eating. 
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at July 04, 2009 07:44 AM (Nj9Dm)
53
Mu best advice to Sarah with regards to the policy worries sbout her is to dispell them by giving major policy speeches, writing articles, books, and op eds, and even appearing on Charlie Rose to discuss her ideas.
Since the election, we've learned more about the Palin women's gynecological history than her ideas.
Since the election, we've learned more about the Palin women's gynecological history than her ideas.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 07:46 AM (teBup)
54
David Letterman 2 and 0 vs Republican Presidential candidates. ... Got to love it.
You just said this on Tim Blair's site, and it was neither funny nor true there, either. So, where else did you try your luck?
You just said this on Tim Blair's site, and it was neither funny nor true there, either. So, where else did you try your luck?
Posted by: Nicole at July 04, 2009 07:47 AM (CH1cF)
55
Resigning to run for president (if that's what she's doing) doesn't
sound like quitting to me. You can say she bailed on her responsibility
to the people who elected her governor, but every politician who runs
for a higher office gets charged with that and it never sticks.
sound like quitting to me. You can say she bailed on her responsibility
to the people who elected her governor, but every politician who runs
for a higher office gets charged with that and it never sticks.
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 07:48 AM (+d5Ab)
56
It's July 4th and I've never been more disgusted with the former United States of America than I am today. An unvetted muslim-raised socialist for president who the press won't question and late nite talk shows won't joke about. A woman whose greatest crimeswere that she exposed Obama for the lightweight anti-American pukehe is and that she wouldn't kill her Down Syndrome baby. For those sins, the press and the rest of the left, as well as too many alleged conservatives on the right (you know who you are) are compulsively, obsessively attacking this woman non-stop. Nobody knows the exact reason why Palin resigned, but certain people are automatically jumping to the worst conclusions andare attacking her. Why? Because you have an irrational hatred andyou can't fucking help yourselves, that's why. You people are pathetic.
I think I'll skip celebrating the 4th this year and just reminisce about what this country used to stand for before it go so fundamentally sick.
I think I'll skip celebrating the 4th this year and just reminisce about what this country used to stand for before it go so fundamentally sick.
Posted by: Crusty at July 04, 2009 07:50 AM (qzgbP)
57
Let me fucking get this shit straight - opening up China to our country offshoring manufacturing was awesome?
Unless you want to go the Smoot -Hawley route (which didn't work out too well), it was inevitable. The US, for the vast majority of common manufactured products that are cheaply shippable, can't be a competitive producer anymore.
Hyper trade protectionism, which is what you're apparently prescribing, is a loser.
Unless you want to go the Smoot -Hawley route (which didn't work out too well), it was inevitable. The US, for the vast majority of common manufactured products that are cheaply shippable, can't be a competitive producer anymore.
Hyper trade protectionism, which is what you're apparently prescribing, is a loser.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 07:52 AM (g/H5G)
58
I wish the US could be a competitive producer, but the politicians and unions have guaranteed that will not be the case.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 07:53 AM (g/H5G)
59
Happy 4th of July morons!I'll say it everyday I support Sarah 200%, and I will vote for her without even blinking, no matter what!
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at July 04, 2009 07:41 AM (Nj9Dm)
Happy 4th to my favorite Texan!
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at July 04, 2009 07:41 AM (Nj9Dm)
Happy 4th to my favorite Texan!
Posted by: loppyd at July 04, 2009 07:56 AM (UJIeT)
60
She resigned as governor so she can run for the Senate in 2010...
Palin is a lightning rod in the national debate, and resigning as Governor of Alaska gets her out of the jerk-off, backwater politics of Alaska. Election to the Senate puts her in the epicenter of national politics, and in the perfect position to stir things up in the run-up to the presidential election of '12.
I'm not saying it'll work --there is a serious flake factor in all this maneuvering-- but given the amount of national attention she constantly attracts, it could very well be her game.
Palin is a lightning rod in the national debate, and resigning as Governor of Alaska gets her out of the jerk-off, backwater politics of Alaska. Election to the Senate puts her in the epicenter of national politics, and in the perfect position to stir things up in the run-up to the presidential election of '12.
I'm not saying it'll work --there is a serious flake factor in all this maneuvering-- but given the amount of national attention she constantly attracts, it could very well be her game.
Posted by: SuperMag at July 04, 2009 07:56 AM (6hV5f)
61
56
I hope y'all will take time out to think about our Troops as you
slobber over bbq today, remember what they are doing while you are
eating.
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at July 04, 2009 07:44 AM (Nj9Dm)
Amen.
I hope y'all will take time out to think about our Troops as you
slobber over bbq today, remember what they are doing while you are
eating.
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at July 04, 2009 07:44 AM (Nj9Dm)
Amen.
Posted by: loppyd at July 04, 2009 07:57 AM (UJIeT)
62
Good points Ghost. Ive been saying this over and over since this shit hit the rotating oscillator, you can not apply the conventional wisdom to politics anymore. If the smart money was right the 2008 election would have been between Hillary and Rudy with Hillary probably winning. (real cons would never vote for a gun grabber)
The fact is that conventional wisdom went out the window in the 2000 election. We are now entering another phase of American politics that is a major shaking out and game changing such as happened in 1854 with the formation of the Republican Party.
The country is divided once again and attitudes between the two camps are actively hostile with little hope of compromise. The only difference now is it is not a North/South divide. It is an urban/rural divide and how it shakes out is anybodys guess.
The Republican Party is now in the control of the squishies who openly distain the conservatives and who wish to out right kick the religious people out of the party. My prediction is that if this doesnt change the Republican Party will become another 3rd party and have little influence on the elections of the future.
The fact is that conventional wisdom went out the window in the 2000 election. We are now entering another phase of American politics that is a major shaking out and game changing such as happened in 1854 with the formation of the Republican Party.
The country is divided once again and attitudes between the two camps are actively hostile with little hope of compromise. The only difference now is it is not a North/South divide. It is an urban/rural divide and how it shakes out is anybodys guess.
The Republican Party is now in the control of the squishies who openly distain the conservatives and who wish to out right kick the religious people out of the party. My prediction is that if this doesnt change the Republican Party will become another 3rd party and have little influence on the elections of the future.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 07:57 AM (5ynkO)
63
Great post, Russ. We can only hope she will follow through with some of these suggestions.
I'm not in the "game over" group, but I'mpessimistic, even though I've been a SaraCuda fan from Day One. The press and the comics, the whole media crew have been able to stereotype her as sort of a loopy lightweight with a quirky family who's in over her head. (see Russia from my house, etc.). Fair or not, much of this stuck with that percentage (I'm not sure what the percentage is, but it's significant) ofthe electorate who get their news from the big three TV channel soundbites and look uponOprah and Whoopi as savants.
It's fine for us AoS morons to follow Sarah through hell, but we and our ilk are not enough. She needed to convince part of that 52% she was a serious, informed candidate who was the right choice. Maybe there is a grand scheme here, but I can't see any way that her resignation did not make that task far, far more difficult, if not impossible. Truly wish it were different, but that's my quick gut reaction.
I'm not in the "game over" group, but I'mpessimistic, even though I've been a SaraCuda fan from Day One. The press and the comics, the whole media crew have been able to stereotype her as sort of a loopy lightweight with a quirky family who's in over her head. (see Russia from my house, etc.). Fair or not, much of this stuck with that percentage (I'm not sure what the percentage is, but it's significant) ofthe electorate who get their news from the big three TV channel soundbites and look uponOprah and Whoopi as savants.
It's fine for us AoS morons to follow Sarah through hell, but we and our ilk are not enough. She needed to convince part of that 52% she was a serious, informed candidate who was the right choice. Maybe there is a grand scheme here, but I can't see any way that her resignation did not make that task far, far more difficult, if not impossible. Truly wish it were different, but that's my quick gut reaction.
Posted by: RM at July 04, 2009 07:58 AM (GkYyh)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 08:01 AM (g/H5G)
65
Hmmmm.
It is the Night of the Long Knives for the Republican party.
This isn't the first fight or the last. But it is the loudest. The divisions between Establishment Republicans and Conservatives has been brewing for years now with Conservatives taking the subordinate position in that relationship. But electoral failures along with legislative ones have weakened the dominance of Establishment Republicans to the point where challenges by Conservatives have begun to overwhelm. The response to this in the past was to admonish Conservatives. The response to this in the present is to attempt to destroy Conservatives. Neither has truly succeeded.
Now comes the open breakand Palin is both the cause and the leader of rebellion. Either the Establishment Republicans win a hollow victory, because such victory would see the self-exile of many Conservatives and so destroy the power base, or the Conservatives will win out and finally take over complete mastery of the Republican party. Either way Conservatives won't be seated at the back of the bus any longer.
What I believe Palin has chosen to be isn't Queen but King-maker.
It is the Night of the Long Knives for the Republican party.
This isn't the first fight or the last. But it is the loudest. The divisions between Establishment Republicans and Conservatives has been brewing for years now with Conservatives taking the subordinate position in that relationship. But electoral failures along with legislative ones have weakened the dominance of Establishment Republicans to the point where challenges by Conservatives have begun to overwhelm. The response to this in the past was to admonish Conservatives. The response to this in the present is to attempt to destroy Conservatives. Neither has truly succeeded.
Now comes the open breakand Palin is both the cause and the leader of rebellion. Either the Establishment Republicans win a hollow victory, because such victory would see the self-exile of many Conservatives and so destroy the power base, or the Conservatives will win out and finally take over complete mastery of the Republican party. Either way Conservatives won't be seated at the back of the bus any longer.
What I believe Palin has chosen to be isn't Queen but King-maker.
Posted by: memomachine at July 04, 2009 08:01 AM (0CVkT)
66
but the biggest target would be Charlie Crist
Amen. The guys is more liberal than the liberal that ran against him.
Amen. The guys is more liberal than the liberal that ran against him.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 08:03 AM (g/H5G)
67
"The fact that this is the 5th thread about her since 1:30 yesterday and there have been 2392 comments posted shows that it is most certainly NOT over. "
Nothing is over unless SHE decides it is.
KC @ 41- couldn't agree more. It chagrins me no end, listening to conservatives jabber about "explaining away Palin's deficiencies" when the White House is currently occupied by an Old Navy mannequin.
Nothing is over unless SHE decides it is.
KC @ 41- couldn't agree more. It chagrins me no end, listening to conservatives jabber about "explaining away Palin's deficiencies" when the White House is currently occupied by an Old Navy mannequin.
Posted by: buster mcDissenter at July 04, 2009 08:03 AM (k8MRc)
68
All you people who keep saying we dont know why she is resigning or who speculate endlessly about need to watch the entire speech or at least read the transcript. I believe Aces girlfriend at Atlas Shrugged (Pam Gueller) has both the video and the transcript.
Either watch or read and remember this is not the typical lying and spinning DC politician. IOW, take her at her word. She states over and over why she was resigning.
Either watch or read and remember this is not the typical lying and spinning DC politician. IOW, take her at her word. She states over and over why she was resigning.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 08:04 AM (5ynkO)
69
Unless you want to go the Smoot -Hawley route (which didn't work out too well), it was inevitable. The US, for the vast majority of common manufactured products that are cheaply shippable, can't be a competitive producer anymore.Hyper trade protectionism, which is what you're apparently prescribing, is a loser.
Bullshit...
We lost the manufactoring crown because none of us wanted a fucking factory in our backyards. We didn't like the noise and the pollution...we didn't like those hourly workers...we were fucking stupid. With Nixon's EPA making rules to make manufactoring more and more expensive and Nixons motherfucking OSHA we managed to murder our ability to actually CREATE fucking wealth.
NO, NIXON WAS A MOTHERFUCKER! Asshole actually sowed the seeds of our destruction. And the asshole pussied out in Vietnam. Which admittedly we should have never gone into but once in we should have finished honorably. Instead because of his bullshit we witnessed mass murder on a scale that only Socialisim is capable of.
Fuck Nixon.
Bullshit...
We lost the manufactoring crown because none of us wanted a fucking factory in our backyards. We didn't like the noise and the pollution...we didn't like those hourly workers...we were fucking stupid. With Nixon's EPA making rules to make manufactoring more and more expensive and Nixons motherfucking OSHA we managed to murder our ability to actually CREATE fucking wealth.
NO, NIXON WAS A MOTHERFUCKER! Asshole actually sowed the seeds of our destruction. And the asshole pussied out in Vietnam. Which admittedly we should have never gone into but once in we should have finished honorably. Instead because of his bullshit we witnessed mass murder on a scale that only Socialisim is capable of.
Fuck Nixon.
Posted by: Pierre Legrand at July 04, 2009 08:06 AM (DLJPO)
70
Oh and nice post Russ! Sarah is going to be fighting for conservatives. She just finished asking me for money for exactly that...she is not the sort of person who would ask for money one week to fight the good fight and drop out of politics the next week.
Posted by: Pierre Legrand at July 04, 2009 08:08 AM (DLJPO)
71
She didn't want to "phone it in". I've decided to equate that to voting present. Good for her.
Posted by: Trish at July 04, 2009 08:09 AM (0U5Kd)
72
Hey 'Nam Grunt,
Happy Fourth to you too. I think of our troops every day.
I played golf yesterday and as I was waiting for my tee time I struck up a conversation with an older gentleman and it turned out he was a retired Air Force pilot. (My late father was AF too)
We had a really nice conversation, I told him my biggest regret in life was not going AF myself. That's all I wanted to be as a kid growing up. But hormones and other teenage distractions pushed me in another direction.
As we parted ways, I shook his hand and thanked him for his service. He almost seemed embarassed by my "thank you". And I realized, that's how awesome our troops are. That what they do - protecting our constitution, protecting our country, protecting our very freedoms that allow us the lives we get to lead - that what they do, is second nature to them. Selflessly.
On this fourth of July, all of my thoughts and prayers go out to every man and woman that has served in the military and has provided me the right to live the life I get to live.
Happy Fourth to you too. I think of our troops every day.
I played golf yesterday and as I was waiting for my tee time I struck up a conversation with an older gentleman and it turned out he was a retired Air Force pilot. (My late father was AF too)
We had a really nice conversation, I told him my biggest regret in life was not going AF myself. That's all I wanted to be as a kid growing up. But hormones and other teenage distractions pushed me in another direction.
As we parted ways, I shook his hand and thanked him for his service. He almost seemed embarassed by my "thank you". And I realized, that's how awesome our troops are. That what they do - protecting our constitution, protecting our country, protecting our very freedoms that allow us the lives we get to lead - that what they do, is second nature to them. Selflessly.
On this fourth of July, all of my thoughts and prayers go out to every man and woman that has served in the military and has provided me the right to live the life I get to live.
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 08:09 AM (dlVvB)
73
Unless you want to go the Smoot -Hawley route (which didn't work out too well), it was inevitable. The US, for the vast majority of common manufactured products that are cheaply shippable, can't be a competitive producer anymore.
Never said I did, but let it be said that tariffs on foreign goods are one of the few prescribed methods of moneymaking in the Constitution. We can't be a competitive shipper anymore because we opned our markets up without reciprocation.
Hyper trade protectionism, which is what you're apparently prescribing, is a loser.
EEEENNNNNNN! WRONG!!!!!!! I'm sorry, not whoring out to China equals protectionism? Fucking fantastic.
The American manufacturing sector has always been able to beat out others on one factor: efficiency. that's where we're losing our edge. SUre, it's cheaper to do business in CHina due to labor costs, but they were never as efficient as us - until now. And that is a direct result of our foreign capital investment. Our FCI occured becasue of our lax trade policies. How many Chinese buy American goods? Here's a hint: almost none.
Ergo, we have a massive trade imbalance that willeventually bankrupt us regardless unless we deal with it, either by strengthing the dollar or weakening the yuan.
Or demanding fewer finished goods from China.
Never said I did, but let it be said that tariffs on foreign goods are one of the few prescribed methods of moneymaking in the Constitution. We can't be a competitive shipper anymore because we opned our markets up without reciprocation.
Hyper trade protectionism, which is what you're apparently prescribing, is a loser.
EEEENNNNNNN! WRONG!!!!!!! I'm sorry, not whoring out to China equals protectionism? Fucking fantastic.
The American manufacturing sector has always been able to beat out others on one factor: efficiency. that's where we're losing our edge. SUre, it's cheaper to do business in CHina due to labor costs, but they were never as efficient as us - until now. And that is a direct result of our foreign capital investment. Our FCI occured becasue of our lax trade policies. How many Chinese buy American goods? Here's a hint: almost none.
Ergo, we have a massive trade imbalance that willeventually bankrupt us regardless unless we deal with it, either by strengthing the dollar or weakening the yuan.
Or demanding fewer finished goods from China.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 08:10 AM (E/X9t)
74
I think she is going rogue and put herself in a better position to control her destiny. I think she thinks the RNC is a bunch of whack jobs, just like a lot of us do.
I think she can do whatever the hell she wants, it's still a fucking free country.
I am waiting for the first time that she looks Michael Steele in the eye and says, "uh huh, not supporting Charlie Crist for Senate or John McCain for another term." Not doing it. Because she will, probably has already. And a lot of us would be wise to follow her lead.
If I hear one more person say "her political career is over" I swear I am going to start giggling hysterically and then punch someone really hard. Hopefully, my husband will be sitting right next to me. /sarc
In my entire blogging career, I've never read so much whining from a bunch of so-called "he-men" like I have in the last 24 hours. As my mama always said, "Crying and wringing your hands isn't going to help you one bit!" Get your ass up, accept it and move on.
Last, but not least. We are at war, folks. We have really smart and evil people running this country and then we have the dumb minions that follow them. If we don't quit all the backbiting and nay saying with in our own conservative ranks then we are dead meat.
Thanks for the post, Russ. Very well thought out. Ace can maintain his anonymity, but he also needs realize that the political map in this country is completely and utterly changed. We aren't going to fight this war to save the pundits in the Beltway, this war is about saving our country.
I think she can do whatever the hell she wants, it's still a fucking free country.
I am waiting for the first time that she looks Michael Steele in the eye and says, "uh huh, not supporting Charlie Crist for Senate or John McCain for another term." Not doing it. Because she will, probably has already. And a lot of us would be wise to follow her lead.
If I hear one more person say "her political career is over" I swear I am going to start giggling hysterically and then punch someone really hard. Hopefully, my husband will be sitting right next to me. /sarc
In my entire blogging career, I've never read so much whining from a bunch of so-called "he-men" like I have in the last 24 hours. As my mama always said, "Crying and wringing your hands isn't going to help you one bit!" Get your ass up, accept it and move on.
Last, but not least. We are at war, folks. We have really smart and evil people running this country and then we have the dumb minions that follow them. If we don't quit all the backbiting and nay saying with in our own conservative ranks then we are dead meat.
Thanks for the post, Russ. Very well thought out. Ace can maintain his anonymity, but he also needs realize that the political map in this country is completely and utterly changed. We aren't going to fight this war to save the pundits in the Beltway, this war is about saving our country.
Posted by: Cooper at July 04, 2009 08:10 AM (jp9gT)
75
We lost the manufactoring crown because none of us wanted a fucking
factory in our backyards. We didn't like the noise and the
pollution...we didn't like those hourly workers.
True enough, but a completely different point. NIMBY drives much policy today as well.
And the asshole pussied out in Vietnam.
Elaborate. He bombed NV back to the negotiating table. He took it to them along their supply routes through Cambodia. He ordered the mining of Haiphong harbor to suppress Soviet aid. What precisely are you suggesting here?
factory in our backyards. We didn't like the noise and the
pollution...we didn't like those hourly workers.
True enough, but a completely different point. NIMBY drives much policy today as well.
And the asshole pussied out in Vietnam.
Elaborate. He bombed NV back to the negotiating table. He took it to them along their supply routes through Cambodia. He ordered the mining of Haiphong harbor to suppress Soviet aid. What precisely are you suggesting here?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 08:13 AM (g/H5G)
76
I say that last thing about the squishies being in charge with an eye on the goings on here in SC. Fox had a little blurb on this morning about the SC Republican Party leaders having a council to discuss calling for Mark Sanford to resign.
The State newspaper is keeping the issue boiling here and they are doing it to further Democrap desires. The squishies led by asshole Linseed Oil Grahamnasty control the R party here and they went out of their way to make sure McLame won the primary, including running out of ballots in places where McLame was week.
Now Sanford shot his self in the foot but we dont need the party going after him. This is payback for them though because he refused to endorse McLame in 2008.
After they kill him theyll go after Jim DeMint next. I have already seen snarky comments made by some of the squishies about him, The fact is, Republican squishies probably hate real conservatives more than they hate Democraps.
The State newspaper is keeping the issue boiling here and they are doing it to further Democrap desires. The squishies led by asshole Linseed Oil Grahamnasty control the R party here and they went out of their way to make sure McLame won the primary, including running out of ballots in places where McLame was week.
Now Sanford shot his self in the foot but we dont need the party going after him. This is payback for them though because he refused to endorse McLame in 2008.
After they kill him theyll go after Jim DeMint next. I have already seen snarky comments made by some of the squishies about him, The fact is, Republican squishies probably hate real conservatives more than they hate Democraps.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 08:13 AM (5ynkO)
77
Elaborate. He bombed NV back to the negotiating table. He took it to them along their supply routes through Cambodia. He ordered the mining of Haiphong harbor to suppress Soviet aid. What precisely are you suggesting here?
Answer your own fucking question. Did FDR bomb the Nazis back to the negotiating table? How about Truman and the Japanese? You gotta be fucking kidding me on this one. Nixon was so awesome, he negotiated us into a STALEMATE!!!!!
Which then turned into a fucking slaughterhouse for those keeping score. Bang up job there. But I guess those boat people were part of Nixon's SUPER AWESOME STRATEGERY.
Answer your own fucking question. Did FDR bomb the Nazis back to the negotiating table? How about Truman and the Japanese? You gotta be fucking kidding me on this one. Nixon was so awesome, he negotiated us into a STALEMATE!!!!!
Which then turned into a fucking slaughterhouse for those keeping score. Bang up job there. But I guess those boat people were part of Nixon's SUPER AWESOME STRATEGERY.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 08:18 AM (E/X9t)
78
The fact that this is the 5th thread about her since 1:30 yesterday and there have been 2392 comments posted shows that it is most certainly NOT over.
Yeah, but half those comments were Ace defending his position.
Happy Independence Day, morons!
Yeah, but half those comments were Ace defending his position.
Happy Independence Day, morons!
Posted by: Andy at July 04, 2009 08:19 AM (xM6ve)
79
We lost the manufactoring crown because none of us wanted a fucking factory in our backyards. We didn't like the noise and the pollution...we didn't like those hourly workers.
Actually according to the National Chamber of Commerce the largest factor in driving factories and jobs overseas is not labor. It is excessive and costly regulation.
Think about what will happen when we had cap and tax to that.
Actually according to the National Chamber of Commerce the largest factor in driving factories and jobs overseas is not labor. It is excessive and costly regulation.
Think about what will happen when we had cap and tax to that.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 08:19 AM (5ynkO)
80
had = add
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 08:20 AM (5ynkO)
81
How many Chinese buy American goods? Here's a hint: almost none.
As many as can lay their hands on them.
An American company, American Superconductor, is selling the Chinese more power transmission gear than AMSC sells in the USA.
As many as can lay their hands on them.
An American company, American Superconductor, is selling the Chinese more power transmission gear than AMSC sells in the USA.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 08:23 AM (g/H5G)
82
Resigning the governorship to run for POTUS smacks of the same brilliant campaign strategy as suspending a campaign to prove what an effective senator you are.
Please, no more weirdness from Republicans!
Please, no more weirdness from Republicans!
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 08:24 AM (teBup)
83
Which then turned into a fucking slaughterhouse for those keeping score.
And who legislated that "slaughterhouse" after Nixon left office? Ummm...would that be the democrats in congress? Why, yes. Yes it would.
But I guess those boat people were part of Nixon's SUPER AWESOME STRATEGERY.
Congressional democrats strategy perhaps. You need to recheck the timelines.
And who legislated that "slaughterhouse" after Nixon left office? Ummm...would that be the democrats in congress? Why, yes. Yes it would.
But I guess those boat people were part of Nixon's SUPER AWESOME STRATEGERY.
Congressional democrats strategy perhaps. You need to recheck the timelines.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 08:26 AM (g/H5G)
84
ace zealously guards his privacy, not jealously.
Posted by: guesticle at July 04, 2009 08:29 AM (ftqV2)
85
Nixon? You're kidding, right?
Isn't imposing wage and price controls to curb inflation a lot like "abandoning free market principles to save the free market system"?
Fuck Nixon and W both for their muddleheaded "Republican" economic thinking that helps pave the road to serfdom.
Isn't imposing wage and price controls to curb inflation a lot like "abandoning free market principles to save the free market system"?
Fuck Nixon and W both for their muddleheaded "Republican" economic thinking that helps pave the road to serfdom.
Posted by: Andy at July 04, 2009 08:32 AM (xM6ve)
86
She should buy the "Speaking My Mind" collection of Reagan speeches and read it over and over.
And enjoy the time off.
And enjoy the time off.
Posted by: DM! at July 04, 2009 08:32 AM (GJbFM)
87
Like you, I love Sarah Palin. Unlike you, I don't think a female presidential candidate will succeed without the toughness of a Margaret Thatcher. Sarah Palin does not have that inner cruel streak that a 21st century American politician needs.
What Sarah Palin should really do:
1. Give a lot of speeches around the country to make money.
2. Do a book deal. Hire a ghost writer.
3. Over the course of about two years, earn enough money to make her family financially secure into the future.
4. Announce her retirement from politics after she has made her money. (At this point, her ability to make money giving speeches will drastically decline.)
5. Release a second book that decries the state of American politics where a normal American like herself cannot be in the national spotlight without being viciously attacked by elitist liberal scum.
6. Support the GOP candidates of her choice in the upcoming elections, 2010, 2012, and beyond.
What Sarah Palin should really do:
1. Give a lot of speeches around the country to make money.
2. Do a book deal. Hire a ghost writer.
3. Over the course of about two years, earn enough money to make her family financially secure into the future.
4. Announce her retirement from politics after she has made her money. (At this point, her ability to make money giving speeches will drastically decline.)
5. Release a second book that decries the state of American politics where a normal American like herself cannot be in the national spotlight without being viciously attacked by elitist liberal scum.
6. Support the GOP candidates of her choice in the upcoming elections, 2010, 2012, and beyond.
Posted by: Realist at July 04, 2009 08:33 AM (M3hG/)
88
An American company, American Superconductor, is selling the Chinese more power transmission gear than AMSC sells in the USA.
See, here's the problem with that statement: the infrastructure in China is in build out mode, as opposed to the US, which is far more mature and has mulitple manufacutrers competing in the same business space.
I would fully expect that a country that is trying to pull its rural areas out of third world status may have more incentive than ours, especialy considering the amount of American capital they now control.
You have got to be smarter than this. Look at their industrial gross tonnage output as compared to ours, and get back to me. Do you own an American TV? Cable Box? VCR? DVD Player? Blu-ray? What about your cable modem, or DSL modem? The motherboard of the computer you're typing on? The keyboard? The monitor? The case? The memory? The hard drive?The disk drives? The processor? The cables that hook everything together?
How much of it says, "Made in the USA"?
See, here's the problem with that statement: the infrastructure in China is in build out mode, as opposed to the US, which is far more mature and has mulitple manufacutrers competing in the same business space.
I would fully expect that a country that is trying to pull its rural areas out of third world status may have more incentive than ours, especialy considering the amount of American capital they now control.
You have got to be smarter than this. Look at their industrial gross tonnage output as compared to ours, and get back to me. Do you own an American TV? Cable Box? VCR? DVD Player? Blu-ray? What about your cable modem, or DSL modem? The motherboard of the computer you're typing on? The keyboard? The monitor? The case? The memory? The hard drive?The disk drives? The processor? The cables that hook everything together?
How much of it says, "Made in the USA"?
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 08:33 AM (E/X9t)
89
Vulture 1 to Vulture 2:
"Fuck it. Let's kill something."
"Fuck it. Let's kill something."
Posted by: sherlock at July 04, 2009 08:36 AM (L4jPh)
90
Which then turned into a fucking slaughterhouse for those keeping score.And who legislated that "slaughterhouse" after Nixon left office? Ummm...would that be the democrats in congress? Why, yes. Yes it would.
Because he let them. If he had "won" the war, they would not have been able to do this. See: Truman, Japanese, WWII.
But I guess those boat people were part of Nixon's SUPER AWESOME STRATEGERY.Congressional democrats strategy perhaps. You need to recheck the timelines.
Because he let them. If he had "won" the war, they would not have been able to do this. See: Truman, Japanese, WWII.
Because he let them. If he had "won" the war, they would not have been able to do this. See: Truman, Japanese, WWII.
But I guess those boat people were part of Nixon's SUPER AWESOME STRATEGERY.Congressional democrats strategy perhaps. You need to recheck the timelines.
Because he let them. If he had "won" the war, they would not have been able to do this. See: Truman, Japanese, WWII.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 08:37 AM (E/X9t)
91
How many Chinese buy American goods? Here's a hint: almost none.As many as can lay their hands on them.
Duh. Despite media reports, the USA is still the most popular country in the Milky Way. Get use to it all you America haters.
News Alert: People like freedom. Oppression - not so hot.
Duh. Despite media reports, the USA is still the most popular country in the Milky Way. Get use to it all you America haters.
News Alert: People like freedom. Oppression - not so hot.
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 08:38 AM (dlVvB)
92
Fuck Nixon and W both for their muddleheaded "Republican" economic thinking that helps pave the road to serfdom.
You can't be a serf unless you put your head in the collar.
You can't be a serf unless you put your head in the collar.
Posted by: Dick Nixon at July 04, 2009 08:39 AM (ZBMR7)
93
Yes, on domestic issues Nixon was a squishie liberal Republican. However, on Vietnam he did NOT lose the war. This is something I am very familiar with since I was there during all those bombing campaigns and the Vietnamization of the war along with the gradual draw down. I have also read a lot of stuff written by leading Army and Marine experts about the loss.
The experts agree that the U.S. war effort had been successful and that the Vietnamization was successful. The North was defeated in the South when the U.S. left. What happened is that the Democrap congress violated the treaties we had with the South, cut off all aid and left them high and dry. Still the South prevailed until the North was rearmed by the Russians and invaded the South again.
I was there for that as well even though we were out of the war. We had fully loaded aircraft leaving the ship during the evacuation and coming back empty.
The experts agree that the U.S. war effort had been successful and that the Vietnamization was successful. The North was defeated in the South when the U.S. left. What happened is that the Democrap congress violated the treaties we had with the South, cut off all aid and left them high and dry. Still the South prevailed until the North was rearmed by the Russians and invaded the South again.
I was there for that as well even though we were out of the war. We had fully loaded aircraft leaving the ship during the evacuation and coming back empty.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 08:40 AM (5ynkO)
94
Duh. Despite media reports, the USA is still the most popular country in the Milky Way. Get use to it all you America haters.
This means nothing to our trade imbalance, by the way. People almost always buy what is cheapest, especially in the less developed markets we're trying to export to. Something about a smaller percentage of disposable income. Nice try though.
This means nothing to our trade imbalance, by the way. People almost always buy what is cheapest, especially in the less developed markets we're trying to export to. Something about a smaller percentage of disposable income. Nice try though.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 08:42 AM (E/X9t)
95
Thanks Russ, at least you guys are attacking and supporting me on my decision and not my children. I appreciate all the support; I only wish I had ten of you supporters in the Republican leadership. In 2012, vote your conscience. War Conservatism(for any JR fans)!
Posted by: Sarah Palin at July 04, 2009 08:44 AM (n2vBd)
96
As far as Mrs. Palin abandoning the commitments she was elected to fulfill, that's an outdated standard.
To her credit, Senator Clinton opted to serve a complete term before seeking a promotion. But one of her colleagues took a different route. His decision was so well received that the rule of serving at least one full term no longer applies. So any criticisms of Palin in this regard can be answered by invoking this guy's name.
To her credit, Senator Clinton opted to serve a complete term before seeking a promotion. But one of her colleagues took a different route. His decision was so well received that the rule of serving at least one full term no longer applies. So any criticisms of Palin in this regard can be answered by invoking this guy's name.
Posted by: FireHorse at July 04, 2009 08:49 AM (jMk+v)
97
Sarah's gonna sue. In the end she will own Atlantic and kick Andy Sullivan's ass from here to Britain......If she doesn't have a case for libel/defamation against the Atlantic and maybe Vanity Fair.....I don't know who will. Hell, CBS and David Letterman's attack on her daughter may even be grist for the mill. Wouldn't it be nice to see what you get in discovery......
Posted by: flynx at July 04, 2009 08:50 AM (CMzUR)
98
10. Start a community organizing group - call it SQUIRREL
Posted by: wHodat at July 04, 2009 08:50 AM (+sBB4)
99
I'm fascinated by your "flaunt her sexuality" point. Where can I subscribe to your newsletter?
Posted by: FUBAR at July 04, 2009 08:52 AM (J5Srq)
Posted by: Sarah Palin at July 04, 2009 08:53 AM (Sou2P)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 08:54 AM (fpywm)
Posted by: cheshirecat at July 04, 2009 08:55 AM (hugcz)
103
Tequila? Check
Cigs? Check
Sig? Check
Ribs? Check
Pallet of Class A fireworks? Check
Comfy chair? Check
An abundance of man-talent around. Oh, yeah. I mean, Check
Happy Independence Day, Morons! My day has begun.
And Russ, good job.
Cigs? Check
Sig? Check
Ribs? Check
Pallet of Class A fireworks? Check
Comfy chair? Check
An abundance of man-talent around. Oh, yeah. I mean, Check
Happy Independence Day, Morons! My day has begun.
And Russ, good job.
Posted by: texette at July 04, 2009 08:56 AM (LIxF0)
104
No, I'm sorry, but she should have finished her first term. Palin's speech WAS rambling and incoherent, too. I cringed, and then I got very sad. She will no longer be taken seriously, and I thought she was a fighter.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at July 04, 2009 09:00 AM (OYasJ)
105
Mitt's the only choice, you cousin-fucking hayseeds, with elites like me running the successful campaign. And we'll overlook that your damaged goods snowbilly has most likely destroyed the GOP and stll let you vote for us.
Posted by: david frum, intellectual giant and your moral and intellectual superior at July 04, 2009 09:01 AM (xmEXV)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 09:02 AM (fpywm)
107
Yea, they said that about Nixon too after he lost the CA gov race, and
Churchill was washed up until that Hitler chap came along.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 07:31 AM (g/H5G)
Oh come on.
Nixon had been on the national stage for going on 15 years at that point (a high profile House and Senate member and then two terms as VP)
Churchill had been in Parliament for almost 40 years at that point and had severed in several high offices of state including First Lord of the Admiralty, Home Secretary and Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was also a well know author.
You will also notice that while they may have lost elections neither of them actually ever quit in the middle of their term before reaching the top job.
I don't think Pallin supporters want to mention her in that kind of company. A 2.5 year term as Governor of Alaska doesn't even get you in the audience to watch those guys play, let alone put you in their league.
Churchill was washed up until that Hitler chap came along.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 07:31 AM (g/H5G)
Oh come on.
Nixon had been on the national stage for going on 15 years at that point (a high profile House and Senate member and then two terms as VP)
Churchill had been in Parliament for almost 40 years at that point and had severed in several high offices of state including First Lord of the Admiralty, Home Secretary and Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was also a well know author.
You will also notice that while they may have lost elections neither of them actually ever quit in the middle of their term before reaching the top job.
I don't think Pallin supporters want to mention her in that kind of company. A 2.5 year term as Governor of Alaska doesn't even get you in the audience to watch those guys play, let alone put you in their league.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 04, 2009 09:02 AM (iTt2X)
108
This means nothing to our trade imbalance, by the way. People almost always buy what is cheapest, especially in the less developed markets we're trying to export to.
Almost always? Is that like jumbo shrimp?
I know our products won't sell well to third world or poverty stricken countrys - but the dictators of those countrys will be buying those products. Socialism is a gas.
I don't know how much shopping you've done in your life, but there is a wide variety of product out there. From cheapest to most expensive. And it's based on product quality. So you have a choice. You can see it at the gas pump. Price varies from 87 to 91.
People have different priorities on what they want to spend extra for quality. Me for example, I spend a lot of time at Sears and Home Depot. But my computer was custom built by my tech guy. It was the most expensive thing I bought last year.
Almost always? Is that like jumbo shrimp?
I know our products won't sell well to third world or poverty stricken countrys - but the dictators of those countrys will be buying those products. Socialism is a gas.
I don't know how much shopping you've done in your life, but there is a wide variety of product out there. From cheapest to most expensive. And it's based on product quality. So you have a choice. You can see it at the gas pump. Price varies from 87 to 91.
People have different priorities on what they want to spend extra for quality. Me for example, I spend a lot of time at Sears and Home Depot. But my computer was custom built by my tech guy. It was the most expensive thing I bought last year.
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 09:02 AM (dlVvB)
109
Because he let them.
Q: Nixon left office when?
Q: The NVA armored thrust south started when?
Historical revisionism regarding well established time lines is a completely unacceptable tactic to me BTW. Stop being an asshole and trying to rewrite historical fact.
Q: Nixon left office when?
Q: The NVA armored thrust south started when?
Historical revisionism regarding well established time lines is a completely unacceptable tactic to me BTW. Stop being an asshole and trying to rewrite historical fact.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:03 AM (g/H5G)
110
Ace and Drew both
jumped on the over bandwagon and the arguments both put forth were
ironically the same as that of the Dem Party. If
you are professing to be a conservative and you find yourself making
the same argument the Dems are making you need to question something.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 06:29 AM (5ynkO)
I give up. Two questions...
Which flavor Kool-Aid do I need to drink to join the club?
And, does it taste good?
jumped on the over bandwagon and the arguments both put forth were
ironically the same as that of the Dem Party. If
you are professing to be a conservative and you find yourself making
the same argument the Dems are making you need to question something.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 06:29 AM (5ynkO)
I give up. Two questions...
Which flavor Kool-Aid do I need to drink to join the club?
And, does it taste good?
Posted by: DrewM. at July 04, 2009 09:03 AM (iTt2X)
111
>> how Sarah Palin should just suck it up and take all the unhinged criticism from cretins like Andrew Sullivan as "part of the job".
Really?
Exactly how is that not "part of the job",dealing with criticism fromunhinged leftists? Do we get to ask for timeouts now?
I know how Bush did it. He ignored the sons of bitches and did what he thought was right, which sometimes infuriated me because I wanted him to fight back. It also left him a litle tone-deaf with respect to critique from his own side.
I'm pretty sure it's definitely "part of the job". Or better said, it damn well comes with the job.
Really?
Exactly how is that not "part of the job",dealing with criticism fromunhinged leftists? Do we get to ask for timeouts now?
I know how Bush did it. He ignored the sons of bitches and did what he thought was right, which sometimes infuriated me because I wanted him to fight back. It also left him a litle tone-deaf with respect to critique from his own side.
I'm pretty sure it's definitely "part of the job". Or better said, it damn well comes with the job.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 04, 2009 09:04 AM (eiOZw)
112
People almost always buy what is cheapest, especially in the less developed markets we're trying to export to.
And your "solution" for this, with America being a "high cost producer" (for a number of reasons) is? Please be specific.
And your "solution" for this, with America being a "high cost producer" (for a number of reasons) is? Please be specific.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:05 AM (g/H5G)
113
Sarah Palin is a very attractive figure (yeah, in more ways then one) but she has only been on the national scene for a short time. To put as much hope in her as we have seems a bit foolish and tilted towards a cult of personality.
I also have felt that she was pretty well destroyed as a national candidate by the memes which became received wisdom. What she did yesterday may turn out to be a masterstroke, giving her the room to undo the damage.
I also have felt that she was pretty well destroyed as a national candidate by the memes which became received wisdom. What she did yesterday may turn out to be a masterstroke, giving her the room to undo the damage.
Posted by: kidney at July 04, 2009 09:06 AM (utbm/)
114
A 2.5 year term as Governor of Alaska doesn't even get you in the
audience to watch those guys play, let alone put you in their league.
An incomplete first term as a senator and an accomplished career as community organizer will get you elected president.
We are in uncharted political territory now. All things are possible.
audience to watch those guys play, let alone put you in their league.
An incomplete first term as a senator and an accomplished career as community organizer will get you elected president.
We are in uncharted political territory now. All things are possible.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:09 AM (g/H5G)
115
I don't know how much shopping you've done in your life,
Plenty of it in countries that were not the United States. Which, oddly enough, by DEFINITION are the countries that we're trying to export to.
but there is a wide variety of product out there. From cheapest to most expensive. And it's based on product quality. So you have a choice.
Not if you actually live in one of those countries that is not the US, which we are trying to export to.
You can see it at the gas pump. Price varies from 87 to 91.
Huh. At the LukOil station, I could get 95. Of course in Almaty I could get 97.
People have different priorities on what they want to spend extra for quality. Me for example, I spend a lot of time at Sears and Home Depot.
Because you have disposable income, and good on ya. The same might not be true if you *actually live in another country we are trying to export to*.
But my computer was custom built by my tech guy. It was the most expensive thing I bought last year.
And it would have cost you exactly half of that if you bought it overseas, because... the retailer's mark-up would have been less because the market is pricing in the fact that you have less disposable income. Also, the custom builder would have charged you less to build it.
You know, seriously, I can do this all day. I could find a modded PS2 to play burned, russian dubbed games whenever I wanted. An Xbox? That's what an APO is for.
Plenty of it in countries that were not the United States. Which, oddly enough, by DEFINITION are the countries that we're trying to export to.
but there is a wide variety of product out there. From cheapest to most expensive. And it's based on product quality. So you have a choice.
Not if you actually live in one of those countries that is not the US, which we are trying to export to.
You can see it at the gas pump. Price varies from 87 to 91.
Huh. At the LukOil station, I could get 95. Of course in Almaty I could get 97.
People have different priorities on what they want to spend extra for quality. Me for example, I spend a lot of time at Sears and Home Depot.
Because you have disposable income, and good on ya. The same might not be true if you *actually live in another country we are trying to export to*.
But my computer was custom built by my tech guy. It was the most expensive thing I bought last year.
And it would have cost you exactly half of that if you bought it overseas, because... the retailer's mark-up would have been less because the market is pricing in the fact that you have less disposable income. Also, the custom builder would have charged you less to build it.
You know, seriously, I can do this all day. I could find a modded PS2 to play burned, russian dubbed games whenever I wanted. An Xbox? That's what an APO is for.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 09:13 AM (E/X9t)
116
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:09 AM (g/H5G)
Maybe but that wasn't the argument you made.
And yeah, Obama has the thinnest resume ever but he didn't quit in the middle of his term. Leaving a position for higher office is an American tradition. Bailing out on your first term as Governor and then thinking you are still viable is a new one.
But hey, Sarah is Superwoman, so all things are possible.
Maybe but that wasn't the argument you made.
And yeah, Obama has the thinnest resume ever but he didn't quit in the middle of his term. Leaving a position for higher office is an American tradition. Bailing out on your first term as Governor and then thinking you are still viable is a new one.
But hey, Sarah is Superwoman, so all things are possible.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 04, 2009 09:15 AM (iTt2X)
117
People almost always buy what is cheapest, especially in the less developed markets we're trying to export to.And your "solution" for this, with America being a "high cost producer" (for a number of reasons) is? Please be specific.
Simple. Demand reciprocation. The government cannot set the price of goods in a free market ecomony - that's what the private sector is all about. However, the government can pursue more aggresive trade policies, to include the threat of backing out of trade deals if conditions are not met. To also include the actual abrogation of trade deals, or the discontinuance of most favored trade status.
The US governemnt has to understand that everyone else is hungry, and we're meat. If we don't act like a god damn predator, we're acting like lunch.
Simple. Demand reciprocation. The government cannot set the price of goods in a free market ecomony - that's what the private sector is all about. However, the government can pursue more aggresive trade policies, to include the threat of backing out of trade deals if conditions are not met. To also include the actual abrogation of trade deals, or the discontinuance of most favored trade status.
The US governemnt has to understand that everyone else is hungry, and we're meat. If we don't act like a god damn predator, we're acting like lunch.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 09:17 AM (E/X9t)
118
How much of it says, "Made in the USA"?
None of that shit you listed is critical. People can live without the whole lot of it, and probably 50% of the people on this planet do every day.
What do you think has more influence on the recipient - a bag of food stamped "USA" that some starving guy gets, or a DVD player made in China?
This country still produces the shit that matters. If you want the best hand tools on the planet (SnapOn), they're made here. If you need ten freighters of food, and you need'em fast to stave off some humanitarian disaster in Africa somewhere, you don't look to China.
If you need some sort of response to Somali pirates to save face quick and whack a few bad guys, you don't call the PLAN, you call the US Navy.
You think we're fucked...and we truly are! But everyone else is even worse off.
None of that shit you listed is critical. People can live without the whole lot of it, and probably 50% of the people on this planet do every day.
What do you think has more influence on the recipient - a bag of food stamped "USA" that some starving guy gets, or a DVD player made in China?
This country still produces the shit that matters. If you want the best hand tools on the planet (SnapOn), they're made here. If you need ten freighters of food, and you need'em fast to stave off some humanitarian disaster in Africa somewhere, you don't look to China.
If you need some sort of response to Somali pirates to save face quick and whack a few bad guys, you don't call the PLAN, you call the US Navy.
You think we're fucked...and we truly are! But everyone else is even worse off.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:18 AM (g/H5G)
119
Three words people: Spenard Building Supplies
Posted by: Goodbye Sarah at July 04, 2009 09:19 AM (tpEh1)
120
Well thought out Russ. I'm thinking of something Rush said the day he talked about Obama's tenure for life. He said he been up till the early morning hours working on a secret project he couldn't tell us about. Maybe he was on the phone plotting with Sarah and Todd......
Posted by: red131 at July 04, 2009 09:20 AM (p9cod)
121
You know, seriously, I can do this all day. I could find a modded PS2 to play burned, russian dubbed games whenever I wanted. An Xbox? That's what an APO is for.
What's your point? Maybe we should break up the unions so we can compete with Taiwan? I'm all in.
What's your point? Maybe we should break up the unions so we can compete with Taiwan? I'm all in.
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 09:21 AM (dlVvB)
122
Simple. Demand reciprocation.
Define "reciprocation".
You've already stated that people in less developed areas are going to buy the cheap shit, so what is your specific plan for having the USA, a high cost producer, be able to sell into those markets even if there isn't nominal barriers anymore?
With low labor costs, Chinese products sold in China are going to be pretty cheap. For your "reciprocation" plan to work, you need a solution for that
Define "reciprocation".
You've already stated that people in less developed areas are going to buy the cheap shit, so what is your specific plan for having the USA, a high cost producer, be able to sell into those markets even if there isn't nominal barriers anymore?
With low labor costs, Chinese products sold in China are going to be pretty cheap. For your "reciprocation" plan to work, you need a solution for that
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:22 AM (g/H5G)
123
Well the critics were too tough on her?
Hugo Chavez would chew her up and spit her out. We can't afford such a lightweight in the office of President.
Thank goodness she imploded in Alaska and not at the G8 Summit.
Hugo Chavez would chew her up and spit her out. We can't afford such a lightweight in the office of President.
Thank goodness she imploded in Alaska and not at the G8 Summit.
Posted by: RKG at July 04, 2009 09:23 AM (Lsz2a)
124
The "quitter" meme has infected a few conventional thinkers.
Sarah Palin is the reason why MexCaine was beaten by 4 points and not 24 points.
Sarah Palin brings the crowds.
Belt Way wannabes are just as useless as RINOs.
Sarah Palin is the reason why MexCaine was beaten by 4 points and not 24 points.
Sarah Palin brings the crowds.
Belt Way wannabes are just as useless as RINOs.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 09:24 AM (fpywm)
125
Okay, I didn't watch the speech yesterday, but found out the news online. Today, I logged into SarahPAC and there was a link to this:
http://sarahpac.com/news/news45.aspx
When I read it, it appears to be her speech in print. Not sure if that is right or if this is an extended 'speech' on this site. However, I do NOT see what many are seeing. I don't see her 'fading away' or leaving the political scene. What I read in those words is someone who is taking the gloves off and getting ready to fight. I also see the MAIN reason for her leaving office as a very very noble one: the money and time the state was spending defending her and all these ridiculous 'ethics complaints' that came from every direction.
Why anyone would read into that she is done with politics and 'finished' if she wants to continue to run for any national office is just crazy. There is NOTHING in that speech that talks about leaving or disappearing. Everything in that speech sounds like she is ready to fight for the principles of our democracy. And I'm one who is looking forward to watching her take on these thieves in Washington...Republicans and Democrats alike...who are robbing us of our taxes and thinking only of themselves and not their constituents.
Go Sarah!
http://sarahpac.com/news/news45.aspx
When I read it, it appears to be her speech in print. Not sure if that is right or if this is an extended 'speech' on this site. However, I do NOT see what many are seeing. I don't see her 'fading away' or leaving the political scene. What I read in those words is someone who is taking the gloves off and getting ready to fight. I also see the MAIN reason for her leaving office as a very very noble one: the money and time the state was spending defending her and all these ridiculous 'ethics complaints' that came from every direction.
Why anyone would read into that she is done with politics and 'finished' if she wants to continue to run for any national office is just crazy. There is NOTHING in that speech that talks about leaving or disappearing. Everything in that speech sounds like she is ready to fight for the principles of our democracy. And I'm one who is looking forward to watching her take on these thieves in Washington...Republicans and Democrats alike...who are robbing us of our taxes and thinking only of themselves and not their constituents.
Go Sarah!
Posted by: Kris G at July 04, 2009 09:25 AM (7GZEI)
126
Would you squishes be happy if Palin was the VP in 2012?
Posted by: wHodat at July 04, 2009 09:25 AM (+sBB4)
127
If you need some sort of response to Somali pirates to save face quick and whack a few bad guys, you don't call the PLAN, you call the US Navy.
On a satellite made with foreign compenents, going through a switchboard made by a foreign manufacturer. God forbid you want to send some data... then the routers and switches are also made in another country, not to mention the cables.
Please don't force me to do this - I've been a comm guy for years. You know how much of our gears outside of the KG stuff is made in the US? Very little.
This country still produces the shit that matters. If you want the best hand tools on the planet (SnapOn), they're made here. If you need ten freighters of food, and you need'em fast to stave off some humanitarian disaster in Africa somewhere, you don't look to China.
I agree with the Snap On bit, but roughly equivalent tools are made all over the world - we don't exactly have a monopoly on molybedenum or chrome steel alloys. And to go on further with your point, where are those ten freighter built, and where are they serviced? Keep in mind when the USS Cole got blasted it was a Norwegian ship that took it to port to get fixed.
On a satellite made with foreign compenents, going through a switchboard made by a foreign manufacturer. God forbid you want to send some data... then the routers and switches are also made in another country, not to mention the cables.
Please don't force me to do this - I've been a comm guy for years. You know how much of our gears outside of the KG stuff is made in the US? Very little.
This country still produces the shit that matters. If you want the best hand tools on the planet (SnapOn), they're made here. If you need ten freighters of food, and you need'em fast to stave off some humanitarian disaster in Africa somewhere, you don't look to China.
I agree with the Snap On bit, but roughly equivalent tools are made all over the world - we don't exactly have a monopoly on molybedenum or chrome steel alloys. And to go on further with your point, where are those ten freighter built, and where are they serviced? Keep in mind when the USS Cole got blasted it was a Norwegian ship that took it to port to get fixed.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 09:26 AM (E/X9t)
128
Exactly how is that not "part of the job",dealing with criticism fromunhinged leftists?
When you're being sued for "ethics violations" by every unhinged cocksucker who suffers no negative repercussion when they lose and just file more. You sit there blithely posting away like this is some negligible inconvenience and not a drain of time and finances of both her and the state; what exactly did you expect her to do? And if you say "change the law": A) How would it be reported as anything other than self-serving and B) What happens when it gets defeated in the state legislature?
When you're being sued for "ethics violations" by every unhinged cocksucker who suffers no negative repercussion when they lose and just file more. You sit there blithely posting away like this is some negligible inconvenience and not a drain of time and finances of both her and the state; what exactly did you expect her to do? And if you say "change the law": A) How would it be reported as anything other than self-serving and B) What happens when it gets defeated in the state legislature?
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 04, 2009 09:26 AM (U1nHn)
129
She needs a linguistics coach, badly. She's not stupid but often she sounds stupid. Someone working with her intensively to get her to end sentences after a couple dozen words max would really help. It's not her accent that was such a problem, but her syntax.
Posted by: kt at July 04, 2009 09:26 AM (ixICi)
130
I think she is sufficiently hobbled as Governor because of her unique situaton for this to be a valid consideration in stepping down. Even if she were still Schroedinger's Palin, she would be treated as threat and target, Alaska be damned.
I hear that if she can't stand the attacks on her family, well, she shouldn't have one allowed in public, or she should get out of the kitchen.
I believe attacks on her family were made in part to *paint * her as at fault in having a political life. A poor wife and mother ambitious enough to subject her family to the vilest and most distasteful insults.
And here she has up-ended the scheme. That's Palin for you.
I hear she will be "seen" as unable to stand the fire if she can't stand that frying pan. It seems not to occur that if you plan to go into the fire, you don't want to sit in the frying pan doing no good, wasting your kevlar suit and your O2 tank and your hydrogel supply ....
Well I do go on but I just don't see her as counted out, even if her immediate plan is to crochet little moose keychains with goggly eyes to sell on Etsy.
I hear that if she can't stand the attacks on her family, well, she shouldn't have one allowed in public, or she should get out of the kitchen.
I believe attacks on her family were made in part to *paint * her as at fault in having a political life. A poor wife and mother ambitious enough to subject her family to the vilest and most distasteful insults.
And here she has up-ended the scheme. That's Palin for you.
I hear she will be "seen" as unable to stand the fire if she can't stand that frying pan. It seems not to occur that if you plan to go into the fire, you don't want to sit in the frying pan doing no good, wasting your kevlar suit and your O2 tank and your hydrogel supply ....
Well I do go on but I just don't see her as counted out, even if her immediate plan is to crochet little moose keychains with goggly eyes to sell on Etsy.
Posted by: SarahW at July 04, 2009 09:28 AM (r/1UT)
131
My only thinking is that all conservative lawyers must get together and start a network of suing the crap out of every Dim politician who even thinks about jaywalking.
This game can't be one sided.
We can play the "suing on ethics" game much better than can the Dims, because the Dims look at Gov't as their cash cow.
Look at how BO is destroying the economy just to pay off and buy various Dim groups.
Plenty of graft, corruption, and ethics violations there to base law suits on.
There's a new vicious game in town and we better start playing- identify possible effective Dim politicians and take them down with lawsuit after lawsuit.
If enough Dims go down, the game will stop.
This game can't be one sided.
We can play the "suing on ethics" game much better than can the Dims, because the Dims look at Gov't as their cash cow.
Look at how BO is destroying the economy just to pay off and buy various Dim groups.
Plenty of graft, corruption, and ethics violations there to base law suits on.
There's a new vicious game in town and we better start playing- identify possible effective Dim politicians and take them down with lawsuit after lawsuit.
If enough Dims go down, the game will stop.
Posted by: The Commissar of Love at July 04, 2009 09:28 AM (oEAm5)
132
Hello Russ from Winterset:
Just have to comment on how thoughtful and insightful this blog was.
A MUST read for Palin and dovetails with my own thoughts and with something I wrote on another blog. Anyone who knows Palin please try and get this bit of advise to her.
One question thatI would like to ask.
Does anyone know whatlevel of influence that Todd has on Sarah ?
Just have to comment on how thoughtful and insightful this blog was.
A MUST read for Palin and dovetails with my own thoughts and with something I wrote on another blog. Anyone who knows Palin please try and get this bit of advise to her.
One question thatI would like to ask.
Does anyone know whatlevel of influence that Todd has on Sarah ?
Posted by: joseph at July 04, 2009 09:28 AM (d566u)
133
I'm amazed I have to explain this to Ace, the one who coined the "Cousin
Sarah" image. I don't know if she'll run for President, but her supporters are
still a huge force, and it wasn't because she wasGovernor of Alaska, Knowles
Murkowski, or Hickel, wouldnever have garnered this level of support. It's
partially because she is a Gal, but because she really did speak truth to power;
She quit a high paying job with the oil commission because she couldn't stand
the corrupt practices therein. She ran for Governorwith no practicallymoney,
and without the Party's endorsement. She will speak out on the issues that
concern her, like cap n trade, defense, the rights of the unborn. Maybe she'll
enter a primary or two, just to suck the air out of the pretensions of Mitt's
minions. She has not yet begun to fight, just not from the perch of the Alaska
Governor'soffice
Sarah" image. I don't know if she'll run for President, but her supporters are
still a huge force, and it wasn't because she wasGovernor of Alaska, Knowles
Murkowski, or Hickel, wouldnever have garnered this level of support. It's
partially because she is a Gal, but because she really did speak truth to power;
She quit a high paying job with the oil commission because she couldn't stand
the corrupt practices therein. She ran for Governorwith no practicallymoney,
and without the Party's endorsement. She will speak out on the issues that
concern her, like cap n trade, defense, the rights of the unborn. Maybe she'll
enter a primary or two, just to suck the air out of the pretensions of Mitt's
minions. She has not yet begun to fight, just not from the perch of the Alaska
Governor'soffice
Posted by: ian cormac at July 04, 2009 09:29 AM (1kwr2)
134
But my computer was custom built by my tech guy. It was the most expensive thing I bought last year.
And it would have cost you exactly half of that if you bought it overseas, because... the retailer's mark-up would have been less because the market is pricing in the fact that you have less disposable income. Also, the custom builder would have charged you less to build it.
You missed my point. I was willing to spend the extra money on that item because it was important to me and I wanted to work with my tech guy to get exactly what I wanted. I didn't want to get something in a box. People have different priorities.
What's your solution? You have two choices. We either lower our cost of production OR send more money to these countries so they can afford our products.
What products are we trying to export to which countries? Everything has a market and it's up to the marketer to find said markets.
I probably couldn't sell peanuts to someone that was allergic to peanuts.
And it would have cost you exactly half of that if you bought it overseas, because... the retailer's mark-up would have been less because the market is pricing in the fact that you have less disposable income. Also, the custom builder would have charged you less to build it.
You missed my point. I was willing to spend the extra money on that item because it was important to me and I wanted to work with my tech guy to get exactly what I wanted. I didn't want to get something in a box. People have different priorities.
What's your solution? You have two choices. We either lower our cost of production OR send more money to these countries so they can afford our products.
What products are we trying to export to which countries? Everything has a market and it's up to the marketer to find said markets.
I probably couldn't sell peanuts to someone that was allergic to peanuts.
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 09:32 AM (dlVvB)
135
Good points Russ, your view echoes mine, sans another shoe dropping, good advice as well. Though I would change point 5 to be about ME ;p
Posted by: Mark at July 04, 2009 09:32 AM (BVb+C)
136
Simple. Demand reciprocation.Define "reciprocation". You've already stated that people in less developed areas are going to buy the cheap shit, so what is your specific plan for having the USA, a high cost producer, be able to sell into those markets even if there isn't nominal barriers anymore?
If neccesary, have the US government subsidize the costs of shipping the goods. Shady, but other countries do it.With low labor costs, Chinese products sold in China are going to be pretty cheap. For your "reciprocation" plan to work, you need a solution for that
Steep tariffs on Chinese manufactured goods re-imported by American companies. They'll complain, and we can counter with their dumping of steel. The resulting mess will take years of litigation - during which the policy will continue - and the companies will simply stop doing it. That means they'll fail, I'm okay with that. They'll be re-org'd, because the demand here in the states will not stop.
If neccesary, have the US government subsidize the costs of shipping the goods. Shady, but other countries do it.With low labor costs, Chinese products sold in China are going to be pretty cheap. For your "reciprocation" plan to work, you need a solution for that
Steep tariffs on Chinese manufactured goods re-imported by American companies. They'll complain, and we can counter with their dumping of steel. The resulting mess will take years of litigation - during which the policy will continue - and the companies will simply stop doing it. That means they'll fail, I'm okay with that. They'll be re-org'd, because the demand here in the states will not stop.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 09:32 AM (E/X9t)
137
Keep in mind when the USS Cole got blasted it was a Norwegian ship that took it to port to get fixed.
If you're trying to make the point that there's a world market, then Id agree. If you're trying to say the USA could ever compete again as a low cost producer of mass market items in that market, then I'd suggest you up your meds. It can't happen within the current US regulatory and legal framework
We can compete on specialty products and technology with unique IP where the barrier to cloning are very high. We will NEVER EVER be a low cost producer of automobile water pumps or alternators ever again though.
If you're trying to make the point that there's a world market, then Id agree. If you're trying to say the USA could ever compete again as a low cost producer of mass market items in that market, then I'd suggest you up your meds. It can't happen within the current US regulatory and legal framework
We can compete on specialty products and technology with unique IP where the barrier to cloning are very high. We will NEVER EVER be a low cost producer of automobile water pumps or alternators ever again though.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:33 AM (g/H5G)
138
She needs a linguistics coach, badly. She's not
stupid but often she sounds stupid. Someone working with her
intensively to get her to end sentences after a couple dozen words max
would really help. It's not her accent that was such a problem, but
her syntax.
Posted by: kt at July 04, 2009 09:26 AM (ixICi)
You need to get out more often.
stupid but often she sounds stupid. Someone working with her
intensively to get her to end sentences after a couple dozen words max
would really help. It's not her accent that was such a problem, but
her syntax.
Posted by: kt at July 04, 2009 09:26 AM (ixICi)
You need to get out more often.
Posted by: wHodat at July 04, 2009 09:33 AM (+sBB4)
139
"But hey, Sarah is Superwoman, so all things are possible."
About time you figured that out, Drew. Knew you could do it.
About time you figured that out, Drew. Knew you could do it.
Posted by: buster mcDissenter at July 04, 2009 09:34 AM (k8MRc)
140
@123- (BING)... and we have our second 'turfer of the morning. Sign in, please.
Posted by: buster mcDissenter at July 04, 2009 09:35 AM (k8MRc)
141
Palin will be the nominee in 2012.
Drew and Ace need to come to grips with this. Drown your sorrows in Valu-Rite if you will.
Drew and Ace need to come to grips with this. Drown your sorrows in Valu-Rite if you will.
Posted by: wHodat at July 04, 2009 09:36 AM (+sBB4)
142
Steep tariffs on Chinese manufactured goods re-imported by American companies.
Ahhh, I see, a heavily regressive tax on the poor who utterly depend on those inexpensive Chinese goods to survive through this recession.
That sounds like a plan for guaranteed reelection.
Ahhh, I see, a heavily regressive tax on the poor who utterly depend on those inexpensive Chinese goods to survive through this recession.
That sounds like a plan for guaranteed reelection.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:36 AM (g/H5G)
143
"I am waiting for the first time that she looks Michael Steele in the
eye and says, "uh huh, not supporting Charlie Crist for Senate or John
McCain for another term.""
She comes down here to Florida and endorses Marco Rubio in the GOP Senate primary and I may just spontaneously combust (in a good way). Off-year primaries are all about turnout, so she could easily make the difference.
eye and says, "uh huh, not supporting Charlie Crist for Senate or John
McCain for another term.""
She comes down here to Florida and endorses Marco Rubio in the GOP Senate primary and I may just spontaneously combust (in a good way). Off-year primaries are all about turnout, so she could easily make the difference.
Posted by: Dave J. at July 04, 2009 09:37 AM (jNE9Q)
144
If neccesary, have the US government subsidize the costs of shipping the goods.
Even if shipping were FREE, we can't compete. It costs about $3000 to send a 40' container full of pottery made in the Dominican Republic to the port of Miami and have it trucked to a roadside store in Palm Beach.
If it were possible to save that $3000 and make the pottery here, don't you think my neighbor would be doing it? Its made in the DR, because the labor delta is so prohibitive.
Its the cost of labor that fucks the US, not the cost of shipping.
Even if shipping were FREE, we can't compete. It costs about $3000 to send a 40' container full of pottery made in the Dominican Republic to the port of Miami and have it trucked to a roadside store in Palm Beach.
If it were possible to save that $3000 and make the pottery here, don't you think my neighbor would be doing it? Its made in the DR, because the labor delta is so prohibitive.
Its the cost of labor that fucks the US, not the cost of shipping.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 09:40 AM (g/H5G)
145
Steep tariffs on Chinese manufactured goods re-imported by American companies.
Holy crap! The Obama plan. If you can't beat, make 'em join you.
So your plan is to make everything more expensive? Good ruck!
Holy crap! The Obama plan. If you can't beat, make 'em join you.
So your plan is to make everything more expensive? Good ruck!
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 09:42 AM (dlVvB)
146
I don't think there is anything she can do. If it was for a family illness I would understand, but it still hurts her politically no matter the reason. What was her weakness and what was her strength last election? Weakness was not enough experience, while strength was a straight talking, strong, up and coming executive. Her resigning magnifies her weakness and takes away from her strength. I really liked and supported her, but I think this is a stupid move. Now she is a failed governor who couldn't play politics in a small state, handle a negative press and ignore idiot left-wing bloggers. Sorry, but that is the crappy reality that any leading GOP figure needs to be able to do successfully or they will not win anything. Not to mention, as already evident on this thread, her actions are dividing potential GOP supporters. Supporting her in the future will be a waste of time, resources and money better spent on viable candidates
Posted by: Ray at July 04, 2009 09:42 AM (1OYRM)
147
Right now, like everyone else I'm confused at her decision. I never took her for a quitter, so there must be something else. I agree she should start campaigning and fund raising for other conservatives like Toomey and Rubio (sp?) 2012 is a long way away.
Posted by: Iblis at July 04, 2009 09:45 AM (BpwKy)
148
Ahhh, I see, a heavily regressive tax on the poor who utterly depend on those inexpensive Chinese goods to survive through this recession. That sounds like a plan for guaranteed reelection.
So your plan is teach everyone Chinese? Or drastically reduce wages? Choose one. The plain fact of the matter is that if we have a massive god damn trade imbalance, then we are fucked because the dollar is fucked.
The only way to change that is pupming large amounts of our goods into foreign markets - which are of course in the middle of this downturn as well, so I don't see how that's gonna happen - or start the turnabout is fair play shit.
So your plan is teach everyone Chinese? Or drastically reduce wages? Choose one. The plain fact of the matter is that if we have a massive god damn trade imbalance, then we are fucked because the dollar is fucked.
The only way to change that is pupming large amounts of our goods into foreign markets - which are of course in the middle of this downturn as well, so I don't see how that's gonna happen - or start the turnabout is fair play shit.
Posted by: flashoverride at July 04, 2009 09:46 AM (E/X9t)
149
"Now she is a failed governor who couldn't play politics in a small state, handle a negative press and ignore idiot left-wing bloggers."
Core of the meme. Central talking points. Moby.
Core of the meme. Central talking points. Moby.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 09:46 AM (fpywm)
150
I would be very surprised if this is the end of Palin politically.
If you look at her career, she's always moved on and up once she's identified a problem. We'll see.
To those silly shits that say she can't take a few hard punches about her kids. It's not her that can't take the punch.
It's her kids. She's worried about how this will affect them.
Look at how. BO keeps stressing that little Sucka and Maalox are off limits. But, of course, our hypocrite preznit allows the attacks to continue on his possible opponents.
If you look at her career, she's always moved on and up once she's identified a problem. We'll see.
To those silly shits that say she can't take a few hard punches about her kids. It's not her that can't take the punch.
It's her kids. She's worried about how this will affect them.
Look at how. BO keeps stressing that little Sucka and Maalox are off limits. But, of course, our hypocrite preznit allows the attacks to continue on his possible opponents.
Posted by: The Commissar of Love at July 04, 2009 09:47 AM (oEAm5)
151
Palin is bigger than the GOP right now.
Heck, she was even bigger than Michael Jackson for a few hours.
Heck, she was even bigger than Michael Jackson for a few hours.
Posted by: wHodat at July 04, 2009 09:49 AM (+sBB4)
152
Flash, you're contradicting yourself. How can we compete with "sweatshop" countries?
Can you please provide a clear solution?
Can you please provide a clear solution?
Posted by: tcbevo at July 04, 2009 09:50 AM (dlVvB)
153
Not only is it the cost of labor in the USA 5-10X what it is overseas, the cost of the overheads are 2-3X of what it is overseas. Even the more advanced jobs like product development have moved offshore as a result. The only way USA based manufacturing is economical nowadays is if it is small batch, custom, very low labor, short shelf life, or very high cube products with high margins. Even then Mexico will probably be cheaper.
The only labor intensive industries in the USA are in retail, construction and food service. Each of them are hurting pretty badly right now, and Obama wants to raise their operating costs even more. We are heading toward a real depression thanks to our government's idiotic actions and planned actions over the last 9 months.
The only labor intensive industries in the USA are in retail, construction and food service. Each of them are hurting pretty badly right now, and Obama wants to raise their operating costs even more. We are heading toward a real depression thanks to our government's idiotic actions and planned actions over the last 9 months.
Posted by: Ray at July 04, 2009 09:52 AM (1OYRM)
154
@88: one can be jealous of one's privacy.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 09:52 AM (teBup)
155
Oh well, I guess the libs were right after all - attractive women really CAN'T be taken seriously.
Palin just jumped the shark, in my opinion. The only thing missing from her shockingly bad speech was wanting more time to go hike the Appalachian Trail.
Damnit all.
Palin just jumped the shark, in my opinion. The only thing missing from her shockingly bad speech was wanting more time to go hike the Appalachian Trail.
Damnit all.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 09:55 AM (teBup)
156
What is "Moby" ?
Posted by: Ray at July 04, 2009 09:57 AM (1OYRM)
157
59
Resigning to run for president (if that's what she's doing) doesn't
sound like quitting to me. You can say she bailed on her responsibility
to the people who elected her governor, but every politician who runs
for a higher office gets charged with that and it never sticks.
Here's the thing: If people are mad at her for dereliction of duty, then those people would be Alaskans. If she wants to run, I guarantee all the polls in Alaska will read a 70% approval of her decision. If so, who are the rest of us to complain?
Resigning to run for president (if that's what she's doing) doesn't
sound like quitting to me. You can say she bailed on her responsibility
to the people who elected her governor, but every politician who runs
for a higher office gets charged with that and it never sticks.
Here's the thing: If people are mad at her for dereliction of duty, then those people would be Alaskans. If she wants to run, I guarantee all the polls in Alaska will read a 70% approval of her decision. If so, who are the rest of us to complain?
Posted by: AmishDude at July 04, 2009 09:59 AM (FWbHu)
158
Great post! Ibelievemuch of the angst felt by people like me over the Palin attacks and the lack of perceived support by people likethe Vichy Republicans (wonderful term) and the blue bloods atThe Corneris that I (and I believe this is true formany of the Palin supporters)view them as personalattacksjust as much as attacks on GovernorPalin. I think people likethe blue bloods at The Cornerand Allahpundit and even Ace and Captain Eddo not quite grasp the very emotional nature of that reaction and the deepanger that is wrapped up in it. At some level (and they probably aren't doing it on purpose),they seem to be saying that women with families and non-Ivy league or no degrees need to remembertheir place and need to remember not to get too emotional about things likesavage unremitting ridicule andattacks on our view of ourselves, our religion,our families, and our country. The peoplewho cancantap into that anger and sense of "How could this happen in America" that the travesty of the left, the state media, and theObama administration generateswill be the ones who have the best chance offighting backand all the cerebral wonkiness in the world won't mean a thing. I don't know if that person is Sarah Palin or not, but whatever she does she has my full support.
Posted by: PowerLifter at July 04, 2009 10:02 AM (072Xq)
159
#55 has it exactly right, I think.
The political and media environment has become toxic, and with Il Douche in power the situation has become even worse. The way to detoxify it is to start electing good people in place of the bad. If she can draw crowds of 20,000 and raise loads of cash for candidates that support conservative values - on either side - she advances the ball toward the goal. She doesn't have to make the shot herself. If she can help elect large numbers of conservatives in 2010 Obama can be stopped.
I've seen few people - let alone politicians - who seem to have their act together better than Sarah Palin. She asked us to trust her on this decision. I will.
The political and media environment has become toxic, and with Il Douche in power the situation has become even worse. The way to detoxify it is to start electing good people in place of the bad. If she can draw crowds of 20,000 and raise loads of cash for candidates that support conservative values - on either side - she advances the ball toward the goal. She doesn't have to make the shot herself. If she can help elect large numbers of conservatives in 2010 Obama can be stopped.
I've seen few people - let alone politicians - who seem to have their act together better than Sarah Palin. She asked us to trust her on this decision. I will.
Posted by: lmg at July 04, 2009 10:02 AM (Qt4Y7)
160
Good take, Mr. Russ from Winterset.
I adore Sarah Palin. I watched the replay of her speech on Fox, and I took her at her word about the reasons she gave for leaving office. I'll admit, it was so refreshing to hear her speak with notes only, without a SuckaPrompTah, looking at the audience, not turning her head side-to-side like she was watching a mini tennis match, and not filling up the time with ummmmmmms, and shit that undoubtedly added to my favorable opinion, but I've adored her since she stood up at the RNC and gave The Speech. That was the moment I knew she was a very strong, tough woman.
Maybe her many detractors did win, and she's out of politics for good. Having trouble blaming her, after what she and her family have been through. That R after your name can be like a giant target.
But...maybe they're wrong, and she's letting them have a week or so of gloating glee, and she'll come back bigger and stronger. Many on the left got all excited about Fitzmas and frog walks and stuff, and that turned out to be a delicious dud.
I adore Sarah Palin. I watched the replay of her speech on Fox, and I took her at her word about the reasons she gave for leaving office. I'll admit, it was so refreshing to hear her speak with notes only, without a SuckaPrompTah, looking at the audience, not turning her head side-to-side like she was watching a mini tennis match, and not filling up the time with ummmmmmms, and shit that undoubtedly added to my favorable opinion, but I've adored her since she stood up at the RNC and gave The Speech. That was the moment I knew she was a very strong, tough woman.
Maybe her many detractors did win, and she's out of politics for good. Having trouble blaming her, after what she and her family have been through. That R after your name can be like a giant target.
But...maybe they're wrong, and she's letting them have a week or so of gloating glee, and she'll come back bigger and stronger. Many on the left got all excited about Fitzmas and frog walks and stuff, and that turned out to be a delicious dud.
Posted by: Theresad at July 04, 2009 10:03 AM (MO2LE)
161
"Palin just jumped the shark, in my opinion."
In my opinion, the phrase "jumped the shark" itself jumped the shark at least two years ago.
In my opinion, the phrase "jumped the shark" itself jumped the shark at least two years ago.
Posted by: Dave J. at July 04, 2009 10:06 AM (jNE9Q)
162
Build your support, Governor, and don't forget to add in all the pissed off gun owners....millions of us who will open our wallets for a solid Second Amrndment candidate. Screw the beltway idiots, and all the weasels in that stinking sewer of a city......
Posted by: jasonj at July 04, 2009 10:08 AM (69j91)
Posted by: wHodat at July 04, 2009 10:10 AM (+sBB4)
164
I respect Victor Davis Hanson alot more than Analhpundit. On this and every other issue under the sun.
Posted by: andycanuck at July 04, 2009 10:15 AM (xmEXV)
165
Just wait.....and see....there is a big lesson coming here...
Palin is going to do an end run around all you media idiots and
political insiders..............She doesn't need you.....All she has to do is go to the people..normal people.....they will follow her.
Smell the fear
Palin is going to do an end run around all you media idiots and
political insiders..............She doesn't need you.....All she has to do is go to the people..normal people.....they will follow her.
Smell the fear
Posted by: norryrr at July 04, 2009 10:15 AM (jrDc1)
166
Andy, excellent article. VichyRepublicans should not read this. They will be forced to call Michael Jackson's anesthetist.
Posted by: wHodat at July 04, 2009 10:20 AM (+sBB4)
167
Right now the Vichy-Rockefeller-blueblood-country club-moderate RINOs are dancing for joy, because they think Palin's just put a stake through the so-con movement's heart. Now they can go make nice with the libtards, without having to be embarrassed about having redneck hicks on "their" side.
Why dopes like Frum and Allah want to be a permanent minority is beyond me.
Why dopes like Frum and Allah want to be a permanent minority is beyond me.
Posted by: Iblis at July 04, 2009 10:21 AM (BpwKy)
168
Nice post, Russ. Positive suggestions instead of destructive criticisms and descriptions of where she 'blew it".
And the point about our host was well made and accurate.
And the point about our host was well made and accurate.
Posted by: West at July 04, 2009 10:24 AM (Rupsw)
169
So your plan is teach everyone Chinese? Or drastically reduce wages? Choose one.
This is the problem with your (and most democrats) zero-sum mode of thinking. The correct answer of course is: "None of the above".
I've gone into great length about why in the past, but I'll say it again because you've obviously not read what I wrote 3 or 6 months ago on this.
People think we're washed up, a power in decline. Nothing could be further from the truth. That thinking results from the zero-sum mindset though. It fails to recognize how societies create "value" and "wealth" and concentrates only on volume, quantity, "tonnage" and shit like that.
Those things ARE important to a developing nation, they do need to "move a lot of shit", because its all they can do with an uneducated populace in a low wage environment.
The opportunities wide open to the US are in broad technological areas.
Suppose I could take a 55gal drum of rather ordinary shit that cost a couple of thousand bucks, process it in a very special hi-tech manner nobody else on the planet has the equipment or expertise to do and transform it into a 55gal drum of "magic shit" that's worth say $100M? This is not so far fetched. Its the direction we've been heading in ever since the end of WWII.
The next 30 years are going to see the final stages of America's transformation from "supplier of stuff" to the world, to "supplier of ideas" to the world.
This is the "dirty little secret" the Chinese don't often talk about, but its precisely the reason why they're backing us. They NEED our creativity and technological breakthrough ideas. They know they'll be the ones making the commercial shit in volume and moving the tonnage, but the ideas are going to come from us. They full well understand the unique strengths and weaknesses of their culture and ours.
This is the problem with your (and most democrats) zero-sum mode of thinking. The correct answer of course is: "None of the above".
I've gone into great length about why in the past, but I'll say it again because you've obviously not read what I wrote 3 or 6 months ago on this.
People think we're washed up, a power in decline. Nothing could be further from the truth. That thinking results from the zero-sum mindset though. It fails to recognize how societies create "value" and "wealth" and concentrates only on volume, quantity, "tonnage" and shit like that.
Those things ARE important to a developing nation, they do need to "move a lot of shit", because its all they can do with an uneducated populace in a low wage environment.
The opportunities wide open to the US are in broad technological areas.
Suppose I could take a 55gal drum of rather ordinary shit that cost a couple of thousand bucks, process it in a very special hi-tech manner nobody else on the planet has the equipment or expertise to do and transform it into a 55gal drum of "magic shit" that's worth say $100M? This is not so far fetched. Its the direction we've been heading in ever since the end of WWII.
The next 30 years are going to see the final stages of America's transformation from "supplier of stuff" to the world, to "supplier of ideas" to the world.
This is the "dirty little secret" the Chinese don't often talk about, but its precisely the reason why they're backing us. They NEED our creativity and technological breakthrough ideas. They know they'll be the ones making the commercial shit in volume and moving the tonnage, but the ideas are going to come from us. They full well understand the unique strengths and weaknesses of their culture and ours.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 10:25 AM (g/H5G)
170
Fuck Nixon, may he burn in hell forever. He abandoned our POWs. He left known POWs in enemy hands.
He was also the original RINO, Run right and govern left was his stated political strategy.
Palin's family was being bankrupted by the endless lawsuits and Alaska is one of fifteen states with large budget deficits. The state doesn't need the endless legal battles, it needs a Governor who isn't spending eighty percent of their time fighting frivolous lawsuits.
She can work for the party during the 2010 electionsand still be a force to be reckoned with in 2012 if she wants it.
The only real question is does she want it. Time will tell.
He was also the original RINO, Run right and govern left was his stated political strategy.
Palin's family was being bankrupted by the endless lawsuits and Alaska is one of fifteen states with large budget deficits. The state doesn't need the endless legal battles, it needs a Governor who isn't spending eighty percent of their time fighting frivolous lawsuits.
She can work for the party during the 2010 electionsand still be a force to be reckoned with in 2012 if she wants it.
The only real question is does she want it. Time will tell.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at July 04, 2009 10:29 AM (0+YqH)
171
We're also (very) slowly getting away from the past "business is evil" mindset, which is critical to our future. The govt is partnering with a lot of small businesses now to develop high tech shit. The Germans have been doing this for decades, but its a new concept for the American government.
Ex. American Superconductor's first length of operational super conducting cable was produced on machinery at the Oak Ridge National Lab.
Ex. American Superconductor's first length of operational super conducting cable was produced on machinery at the Oak Ridge National Lab.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 10:32 AM (g/H5G)
172
I just watched the full Palin news conference, and I don't get most of the "analysis" here or on the TV. The woman is honest and she said exactly what she was thinking - the best thing for ALASKA is for her to pass the ball to someone who can move the agenda forward and is not being triple-teamed by the opposition. She is putting the interests of her state first, which is what she always set out to do. That is selfless, not selfish. She will still get attacked by the left and by many Republicans (as has been happening continually since her VP nomination) but the attacks will not intrude (as much) on the governing of Alaska and will cost her and her family less time and legal fees to defend. Finally, as a non-Governor, she can do and say a lot of things to help Alaska and America that she couldn't do in office. I think it is as simple as she said it is. And I don't think she has a three-year or even seven- or 11-year plan to become President. I think she will do what seems right to her as events unfold. Refreshing. Patriotic. And hot.
Posted by: Z as in Jersey at July 04, 2009 10:36 AM (wutOx)
173
McCain's entire staff of feckless, crapweasles should be publicly beaten.
Fuck every last, nutless, one of them.
I'm willing to give Gubner Palin the benefit of the doubt, and wait to see what it is she has planned for her political future.
Fuck every last, nutless, one of them.
I'm willing to give Gubner Palin the benefit of the doubt, and wait to see what it is she has planned for her political future.
Posted by: Unclefacts at July 04, 2009 10:37 AM (vZVv7)
174
Nice post, Russ. Positive suggestions instead of destructive criticisms and descriptions of where she 'blew it".And the point about our host was well made and accurate.
Posted by: West at July 04, 2009 10:24 AM (Rupsw)
Please don't go too far with my comment about Ace. I don't think he's wrong to criticize Sarah Palin here. I just think he's being too pessimistic and relying too much on "conventional wisdom". Pessimists are important people to have associated with every endeavor, but they need to be balanced out with realists and optimists in a "big tent" movement.
Posted by: West at July 04, 2009 10:24 AM (Rupsw)
Please don't go too far with my comment about Ace. I don't think he's wrong to criticize Sarah Palin here. I just think he's being too pessimistic and relying too much on "conventional wisdom". Pessimists are important people to have associated with every endeavor, but they need to be balanced out with realists and optimists in a "big tent" movement.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at July 04, 2009 10:37 AM (/MEFr)
175
He abandoned our POWs. He left known POWs in enemy hands.
The French got the same treatment, so this was hardly unique to Nixon. Whenever Uncle Ho wanted a political concession from the French, he'd suddenly "find" some fresh remains and negotiate their "return". This is simply the way the NV operated for 50 years (and continue to this day)
The French got the same treatment, so this was hardly unique to Nixon. Whenever Uncle Ho wanted a political concession from the French, he'd suddenly "find" some fresh remains and negotiate their "return". This is simply the way the NV operated for 50 years (and continue to this day)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 10:42 AM (g/H5G)
176
It's so awesome that we have media so complacent with destroying an actually decent politician. The vicious hounding of Palin was unamerican and unacceptable. Badgering her about her kids. Asking her if she was considering abortion (?!), and then slamming her when she fails to swoon Kaity fucking Couric. A washed up narcisist, working for one of the most left wing networks. WTF is wrong with our media that they allow this.. this.. DISGUSTING behavior to a woman who actually climbed up from the bottom and made her own way through ACCOMPLISHMENTS. It sickens me, physically that our media stole our election from us. Yes, they fucking did. THEY decided who was going to be president and their jobwas to make sure of it by any means necessary. Sarah, Ihope you still run. Although, I really can't blame you. If the media came after my family the way the did yours, I'd be in jail.
Posted by: Melodic_Metal at July 04, 2009 10:42 AM (9QC0z)
177
We're also (very) slowly getting away from the past "business is evil" mindset
Who is this "we" you speak of? It damned well isn't the statists in the
White House or the majority of both houses of congress who don't miss
any opportunity to demonize eeevilll business to justify riding in on
their Big Government horse to rescue us from it.
Who is this "we" you speak of? It damned well isn't the statists in the
White House or the majority of both houses of congress who don't miss
any opportunity to demonize eeevilll business to justify riding in on
their Big Government horse to rescue us from it.
Posted by: Andy at July 04, 2009 10:45 AM (xM6ve)
178
It wasn't just remains he abandoned, he abandoned living POWs. And what may be acceptable to the french is not acceptable for an American president.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at July 04, 2009 10:46 AM (0+YqH)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 10:48 AM (fpywm)
180
I'm willing to give Gubner Palin the benefit of the doubt, and wait to see what it is she has planned for her political future.
Posted by: Unclefacts at July 04, 2009 10:37 AM (vZVv7)
Whatever those plans are - IF there are any - they would have been more effective if she managed to finish out one term without saying she'd had enough.
I really thought this was the person to lead us out of the wilderness, someone the masses clearly adored because she shares their outlook. But it's becoming painfully obvious that there is simply too much to try to explain away now. No one ever really gave a crap about a knocked up daughter, not really - certainly no one changed their vote because of that. She's let herself be ridden out of town on a rail by the likes of David Letterman and his smarmy preteen sex jokes.. I can't imagine a Maggie Thatcher letting that happen to her.
Posted by: Unclefacts at July 04, 2009 10:37 AM (vZVv7)
Whatever those plans are - IF there are any - they would have been more effective if she managed to finish out one term without saying she'd had enough.
I really thought this was the person to lead us out of the wilderness, someone the masses clearly adored because she shares their outlook. But it's becoming painfully obvious that there is simply too much to try to explain away now. No one ever really gave a crap about a knocked up daughter, not really - certainly no one changed their vote because of that. She's let herself be ridden out of town on a rail by the likes of David Letterman and his smarmy preteen sex jokes.. I can't imagine a Maggie Thatcher letting that happen to her.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 10:59 AM (teBup)
181
I am a very conservative Republican and I think Sarah Palin is hot, but there is no way in hell I would vote for someone for president who quits as governor. She has no chance in hell, ever of winning a national contest. She should have served out her term, and then run for Senator or something in 2014. She would have killed Begich.
Posted by: Little Big Tiny Small Guy at July 04, 2009 11:00 AM (ZYUqU)
182
Who is this "we" you speak of?
I gave one example - ORNL helped American Superconductor with its initial super conducting cable production. They're ummm....going to be helping me too.
I gave one example - ORNL helped American Superconductor with its initial super conducting cable production. They're ummm....going to be helping me too.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 11:02 AM (g/H5G)
183
The only way this resignation doesn't kill her political career is if she did it because she a)has cancer or some other life-threatening disease or b)one of her children does.
Posted by: Little Big Tiny Small Guy at July 04, 2009 11:02 AM (ZYUqU)
184
It wasn't just remains he abandoned, he abandoned living POWs.
Ummm...Nixon was not in office when the US finally left Vietnam.
Ummm...Nixon was not in office when the US finally left Vietnam.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 11:04 AM (g/H5G)
185
I am a very conservative Republican and I think Sarah Palin is hot, but there is no way in hell I would vote for someone for president who quits as governor.
Just like 08.I am a concerned Christian conservative and I like Republicans but
Just like 08.I am a concerned Christian conservative and I like Republicans but
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 11:05 AM (5ynkO)
186
I am a very conservative Republican and I think Sarah Palin is hot, but there is no way in hell I would vote for someone for president who quits as governor.
You forgot Christian
You forgot Christian
Posted by: robtr at July 04, 2009 11:06 AM (H60q6)
187
Posted by: Little Big Tiny Small Guy at July 04, 2009 11:00 AM (ZYUqU)
How's the Axelturfer holiday pay?
How's the Axelturfer holiday pay?
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 04, 2009 11:09 AM (U1nHn)
188
Seems like I remembersuggestions thatObama or Kerry or Lieberman resigning their Senate seat to run for POTUS / VPOTUS because to do otherwise would be defrauding their constituents.
Posted by: OCBill at July 04, 2009 11:10 AM (p28Ei)
189
Palin is young, her children are young. It is ridiculous to write off her career at this point. Take her at her word - she could no longer govern effectively, given the time and money spent defending the harassment lawsuits and as she said, she is not wired to sit back and collect a paycheck while doing nothing - what she did is better for Alaska and better for her family. I don't think she is worried about her future political career at this time. She has a strong loyal base already. We aren't going anywhere. Nor is this some calculated strategy to run for POTUS or Senate. Sarah is the real deal and a straight shooter. Put me in the camp of those giving her benefit of the doubt.
Posted by: the real joe at July 04, 2009 11:10 AM (sv72L)
190
For what's it's worth, Palin put up the following explanation of her decision on her PAC site:
http://www.sarahpac.com/news/news45.aspx
We shall see what comes next, I suppose.
http://www.sarahpac.com/news/news45.aspx
We shall see what comes next, I suppose.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 11:11 AM (teBup)
191
Instead of guessing why she stepped down and what her plans are, if you read her own words (instead of having them deciphered for you) its pretty plain why and what. Oh! and guess what it was in plain English the kind even trolls can understand. In fact it was not only understandable and articulate, it was devoid of America loathing and lies, maybe Barry should hire Palen as his speech writer.
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/exec-column.php
Since when to AOS readers have to be told what to think or told what someone said.
Good article by Russ, though, his thoughts on what she should do.
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/exec-column.php
Since when to AOS readers have to be told what to think or told what someone said.
Good article by Russ, though, his thoughts on what she should do.
Posted by: Benson at July 04, 2009 11:12 AM (NuWBd)
192
What a freaking week. Palin throws in the towel, Sanford flies off to Argentina just to hump a hot a bimbo. (What, South Carolina doesn't have enough home-grown P**** to go around?)
What's next, Michael Steel announces he's joining the Libertarian Party?
What has happened to the leadership of the Republican Party? Of the Conservative Movement?? All I see everywhere I look is a catastrophic loss of nerve and self-confidence.
What's next, Michael Steel announces he's joining the Libertarian Party?
What has happened to the leadership of the Republican Party? Of the Conservative Movement?? All I see everywhere I look is a catastrophic loss of nerve and self-confidence.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 11:15 AM (teBup)
193
They're ummm....going to be helping me too.
That much is clear.
But you make it sound like there's some shift in direction ("getting away from the past ... mindset") when ORNL and countless government agencies (e.g., NIH, DoD, DoE, DARPA) have been doing this sort of thing for years.
If there is a shift at all, it is imperceptible.
That much is clear.
But you make it sound like there's some shift in direction ("getting away from the past ... mindset") when ORNL and countless government agencies (e.g., NIH, DoD, DoE, DARPA) have been doing this sort of thing for years.
If there is a shift at all, it is imperceptible.
Posted by: Andy at July 04, 2009 11:15 AM (xM6ve)
194
Palin put up the following explanation of her decision on her PAC site
Odds that she wrote that?
Less than 1%.
People will remember her "rambling and not at all persuasive - Rich Lowry" statement she gave to the TV cameras, not whatever excuse her PAC flunkies cranked out in an effort to keep there fund raising jobs.
Odds that she wrote that?
Less than 1%.
People will remember her "rambling and not at all persuasive - Rich Lowry" statement she gave to the TV cameras, not whatever excuse her PAC flunkies cranked out in an effort to keep there fund raising jobs.
Posted by: Snow Billy at July 04, 2009 11:16 AM (i31Zq)
195
Yup a command economy partnership between central government and business is ultra American. Progressive.
ORNL has gear a startup can't possibly afford. This is no different than something like the Freunhoffer Institute.
When you partner with ORNL, you do NOT give up any rights to your IP by the way. Nor are there any committments to providing special access to the government.
ORNL has gear a startup can't possibly afford. This is no different than something like the Freunhoffer Institute.
When you partner with ORNL, you do NOT give up any rights to your IP by the way. Nor are there any committments to providing special access to the government.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 11:16 AM (g/H5G)
196
Odds that she wrote that?Less than 1%.
Odds that you're a clueless douche 100%
Odds that Bammer's Columbia transcript is impressive < 5%
Odds that you're a clueless douche 100%
Odds that Bammer's Columbia transcript is impressive < 5%
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 04, 2009 11:20 AM (U1nHn)
197
I very much doubt Sarah's PAC will be picking up too much by way of donations today.
I think we'll see that site shutting down in fairly short order.
I think we'll see that site shutting down in fairly short order.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 11:21 AM (teBup)
198
The govt is partnering with a lot of small businesses now to develop high tech shit.
Like that time we I invented the Internet together.
Like that time we I invented the Internet together.
Posted by: Al Gore at July 04, 2009 11:22 AM (xM6ve)
199
Odds that she wrote that?
Yeah you stupid troll. That IS the speech she gave yesterday. FOAD asshole.
Yeah you stupid troll. That IS the speech she gave yesterday. FOAD asshole.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2009 11:26 AM (5ynkO)
200
"She's let herself be ridden out of town on a rail by the likes of David
Letterman and his smarmy preteen sex jokes.. I can't imagine a Maggie
Thatcher letting that happen to her."
She said she and her office were spending 80% of their time and resources responding to BS ethics complaints, under a process that doesn't exist in any other state, let alone the UK. That and not sex jokes actually hampered her ability to effectively govern.
The governorship of Alaska is a weakened office due to that process, but especially when you have someone in it who's become a target for national opposition. By contrast, a British PM with a working majority in Parliament holds the most constitutionally powerful executive office in any democratic country in the world, what Lord Hailsham called an elective dictatorship. You just can't compare the two.
Letterman and his smarmy preteen sex jokes.. I can't imagine a Maggie
Thatcher letting that happen to her."
She said she and her office were spending 80% of their time and resources responding to BS ethics complaints, under a process that doesn't exist in any other state, let alone the UK. That and not sex jokes actually hampered her ability to effectively govern.
The governorship of Alaska is a weakened office due to that process, but especially when you have someone in it who's become a target for national opposition. By contrast, a British PM with a working majority in Parliament holds the most constitutionally powerful executive office in any democratic country in the world, what Lord Hailsham called an elective dictatorship. You just can't compare the two.
Posted by: Dave J. at July 04, 2009 11:26 AM (jNE9Q)
201
"I very much doubt Sarah's PAC will be picking up too much by way of donations today."
I expect exactly the opposite. If I remember correctly, someone mentioned in the original resignation comments that the PAC had received, among other donations, a single donation for $50k from someone who'd been a Hillary supporter.
I expect exactly the opposite. If I remember correctly, someone mentioned in the original resignation comments that the PAC had received, among other donations, a single donation for $50k from someone who'd been a Hillary supporter.
Posted by: Dave J. at July 04, 2009 11:28 AM (jNE9Q)
202
Whether it was her intention or not, this allows her to move from the hunted role to the hunter. Good luck prey.
Posted by: In the sights at July 04, 2009 11:28 AM (VxSn2)
203
I will never be comfortable at all with the new need for government to help private enterprise to innovate.Give me free access to 1300 scientists and a few hundred million bucks worth of gear and I'll be glad to take a pass and do it without govt help.
Do you have any idea how dramatically development costs and TTM can be collapsed with the help of an outfit like ORNL? Or how much cred a relationship with them lends when looking for investors?
I'm not a purist, I just want to get something done.
Do you have any idea how dramatically development costs and TTM can be collapsed with the help of an outfit like ORNL? Or how much cred a relationship with them lends when looking for investors?
I'm not a purist, I just want to get something done.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 04, 2009 11:30 AM (g/H5G)
204
Good post, Russ (AOS King of Bacon)......
Look, things are different right now. The press is totally in the tank for BHO, and they have built a wall that any conservative (note: I did not say Republican) will have an extremely difficult timebreaking through, especially if they're in an elected office with the usual constraints. Please note that McCain is all of a sudden back to media fave.
This should actually be liberating for Palin if she takes a page out of Reagan's book. Go around, over and through the press (and pundits) directly to the American people. She can sink or swim on her own ideas - that's all anyone can ask for.
Oh, and flushoverride - you're a condecending jerk with a serious superiority complex running around with a worn out idea - trade war! Yeah, that'll fix America!
Look, things are different right now. The press is totally in the tank for BHO, and they have built a wall that any conservative (note: I did not say Republican) will have an extremely difficult timebreaking through, especially if they're in an elected office with the usual constraints. Please note that McCain is all of a sudden back to media fave.
This should actually be liberating for Palin if she takes a page out of Reagan's book. Go around, over and through the press (and pundits) directly to the American people. She can sink or swim on her own ideas - that's all anyone can ask for.
Oh, and flushoverride - you're a condecending jerk with a serious superiority complex running around with a worn out idea - trade war! Yeah, that'll fix America!
Posted by: Paulie in AZ at July 04, 2009 11:30 AM (WueVH)
205
I very much doubt Sarah's PAC will be picking up too much by way of donations today.
Posters at Just One Minute claim to have made donations there earlier today. If you think that conservatives are happy with the treatment Palin received from the McCain strategists and hangers-on including his slut daughter, country club squishes and their MSM counterparts, I really don't know what to say.
Posters at Just One Minute claim to have made donations there earlier today. If you think that conservatives are happy with the treatment Palin received from the McCain strategists and hangers-on including his slut daughter, country club squishes and their MSM counterparts, I really don't know what to say.
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 04, 2009 11:30 AM (U1nHn)
206
Not that Sarah Palin's going to read this moron blog....
But I would suggest both she and the morons read-
The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill, Alone 1932-1940 by William Manchester
Churchill during the wilderness years was isolated and despised even by his own party.
No, Palin's not Churchill. But if she takes a page from history and uses this time to build a group that's ready to govern once BO's wrecked the country and stumbled from crisis to crisis, she could re-emerge as formidable force.
She needs to use this time to help build the Republican Party she wants to run in. That is - one with few RINOs and more conservatives. She's one of the few people who actually has that ability(kingmaking) should she choose to use it.
I hope the tough Saracuda that took on her own party in Alaska is the one making these decisions now.
But I would suggest both she and the morons read-
The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill, Alone 1932-1940 by William Manchester
Churchill during the wilderness years was isolated and despised even by his own party.
No, Palin's not Churchill. But if she takes a page from history and uses this time to build a group that's ready to govern once BO's wrecked the country and stumbled from crisis to crisis, she could re-emerge as formidable force.
She needs to use this time to help build the Republican Party she wants to run in. That is - one with few RINOs and more conservatives. She's one of the few people who actually has that ability(kingmaking) should she choose to use it.
I hope the tough Saracuda that took on her own party in Alaska is the one making these decisions now.
Posted by: The Commissar of Love at July 04, 2009 11:39 AM (oEAm5)
207
I still marvel at how insecure the left is about Obama that they still need to attack any threat to him. I know he's incapable of speaking without a teleprompter and the most audacious thing he's ever done is vote present, but they really are self-conscious about him they need to give him every assist they can, aren't they?
Posted by: Topsecretk9 at July 04, 2009 11:39 AM (TOg+s)
208
From Palin's speech:
"And there is such a need to BUILD up and FIGHT for our state and our country. I choose to FIGHT for it! And I'll work hard for others who still believe in free enterprise and smaller government; strong national security for our country and support for our troops; energy independence; and for those who will protect freedom and equality and LIFE... I'll work for and campaign for those PROUD to be American, and those who are INSPIRED by our ideals and won't deride them.
I WILL support others who seek to serve, in or out of office, for the RIGHT reasons, and I don't care what party they're in or no party at all. Inside Alaska - or Outside Alaska. "
Yep, pure quitter.
"And there is such a need to BUILD up and FIGHT for our state and our country. I choose to FIGHT for it! And I'll work hard for others who still believe in free enterprise and smaller government; strong national security for our country and support for our troops; energy independence; and for those who will protect freedom and equality and LIFE... I'll work for and campaign for those PROUD to be American, and those who are INSPIRED by our ideals and won't deride them.
I WILL support others who seek to serve, in or out of office, for the RIGHT reasons, and I don't care what party they're in or no party at all. Inside Alaska - or Outside Alaska. "
Yep, pure quitter.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 11:40 AM (fpywm)
209
Good for her. John Galt must have gotten to her.
Posted by: forthemwhatcare at July 04, 2009 11:40 AM (ID6Jx)
210
Great.
She spells out exactly why she's stepping down, but that's not enough for the video game generation. THEY know what's really going on, and what is really going to happen. Someone (Vic?) nailed it: they repeat the Liberal version of reality, yet still call themselves Conservatives. One even used Hussein as an example of how to do it right - hey, HE didn't quit anything! - awesome. They even found a way to bring up those wacky Truthers. How convenient...
Yes, a slimy politician (read: virtually ALL of them on BOTH sides) would laugh it all off and go on with the junkets, parties, etc. In other words, ignore the job. This is what separates her from the crowd. That is what they don't get. That is why people adore her.
This is were we're at: Barry has allowed virtually nothing about himself to be made public - from, yes, the dreaded BC, to college material - and it's "so?"; Sarah is being forced to spend so much time defending herself from Liberals AND RINO's that she says this is not fair to my state, and does the right thing, and it's "loser!!"
Brilliant...
She spells out exactly why she's stepping down, but that's not enough for the video game generation. THEY know what's really going on, and what is really going to happen. Someone (Vic?) nailed it: they repeat the Liberal version of reality, yet still call themselves Conservatives. One even used Hussein as an example of how to do it right - hey, HE didn't quit anything! - awesome. They even found a way to bring up those wacky Truthers. How convenient...
Yes, a slimy politician (read: virtually ALL of them on BOTH sides) would laugh it all off and go on with the junkets, parties, etc. In other words, ignore the job. This is what separates her from the crowd. That is what they don't get. That is why people adore her.
This is were we're at: Barry has allowed virtually nothing about himself to be made public - from, yes, the dreaded BC, to college material - and it's "so?"; Sarah is being forced to spend so much time defending herself from Liberals AND RINO's that she says this is not fair to my state, and does the right thing, and it's "loser!!"
Brilliant...
Posted by: JS at July 04, 2009 11:43 AM (MfgGU)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 11:47 AM (fpywm)
212
Rush is going to have a field day playing clips from the drive-by media.
Will he be on the air on Monday or is he on vacation? I think he'll come to the conclusion as us: this was not a surrender, it was a declaration of war.
*field day -- what the hell does this mean?
Rush is going to have a field day playing clips from the drive-by media.
Will he be on the air on Monday or is he on vacation? I think he'll come to the conclusion as us: this was not a surrender, it was a declaration of war.
*field day -- what the hell does this mean?
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 04, 2009 11:52 AM (UU3J6)
213
"Recent research has shown that empirical evidence for globalization of
corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for
technologies is shrinking. As a world leader, it's important for
America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I
believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well
articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource
development. Thank you."
And Carville was speechless ...
Purple Avenger, maybe Obama should appoint Frank the Tank as innovation policy czar.
corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for
technologies is shrinking. As a world leader, it's important for
America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I
believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well
articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource
development. Thank you."
And Carville was speechless ...
Purple Avenger, maybe Obama should appoint Frank the Tank as innovation policy czar.
Posted by: Al Gore at July 04, 2009 11:52 AM (xM6ve)
214
Gah! Off sockpuppet!
Posted by: Andy at July 04, 2009 11:53 AM (xM6ve)
215
What if she doesn't want to run for POTUS? What if she just decided that she could be more effective at fighting Preznit Obizzle McStalinacorn and his communism? The anklebiters have made it impossible for her to govern effectively. As a private citizen, she's free to do whatever the fuck she wants. I expect her to spend a lot of time in the lower 48 campaigning and fundraising for conservatives in 2010.
So to everybody dumping on her for this: FUCK YOU.
So to everybody dumping on her for this: FUCK YOU.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at July 04, 2009 12:02 PM (yBWmK)
216
I hope we shall all remember what Purple Avenger has revealed today.
Posted by: comatus at July 04, 2009 12:08 PM (XTm8J)
217
Whatever those plans are - IF there are any - they would have been more
effective if she managed to finish out one term without saying she'd
had enough.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 10:59 AM (teBup)
You assume that those plans involve her running in 2012, and if they do then I would agree with you that resignation isn't a great move. But I strongly suspect that her short term goal is not the White House but stopping Obama via the 2010 midterms. She could not play any role in that if she had stayed in Alaska. I also think she is going to put her stamp on the 2010 elections through her PAC. She gives disaffected conservatives a chance to get their money to conservative candidates without having to go through the Republican party and I will be interested to see if she has any impact on contributions to the RNC. Remember that her supporters and opponents in Alaska have both stated that she has a knack for capitalizing on the mood of the electorate, and the base of the Republican electorate right is very pissed off. The first battle in this war is the 2010 primaries and it may well be that in resigning she has sacrificed her own personal political future in order to reshape the Republican party.
effective if she managed to finish out one term without saying she'd
had enough.
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 04, 2009 10:59 AM (teBup)
You assume that those plans involve her running in 2012, and if they do then I would agree with you that resignation isn't a great move. But I strongly suspect that her short term goal is not the White House but stopping Obama via the 2010 midterms. She could not play any role in that if she had stayed in Alaska. I also think she is going to put her stamp on the 2010 elections through her PAC. She gives disaffected conservatives a chance to get their money to conservative candidates without having to go through the Republican party and I will be interested to see if she has any impact on contributions to the RNC. Remember that her supporters and opponents in Alaska have both stated that she has a knack for capitalizing on the mood of the electorate, and the base of the Republican electorate right is very pissed off. The first battle in this war is the 2010 primaries and it may well be that in resigning she has sacrificed her own personal political future in order to reshape the Republican party.
Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at July 04, 2009 12:09 PM (gEU82)
218
Odds that she wrote that?Less than 1%.People will remember her "rambling
and not at all persuasive - Rich Lowry" statement she gave to the TV
cameras, not whatever excuse her PAC flunkies cranked out in an effort
to keep there fund raising jobs.You clueless dickhead moby, that is a transcript of her speech yesterday.
and not at all persuasive - Rich Lowry" statement she gave to the TV
cameras, not whatever excuse her PAC flunkies cranked out in an effort
to keep there fund raising jobs.You clueless dickhead moby, that is a transcript of her speech yesterday.
Posted by: the real joe at July 04, 2009 12:10 PM (sv72L)
219
Great analysis, Russ.
Point 1 is particularly important and could have been strengthened. She needs to stay positive for ever, not just for now. People running for office can't win on a negative campaign especially against someone like the O.
And as you state, she and all other GOP candidates can leave the gutter fights to those of us in the field and the small number of rightie pundits. A two-set strategy is the only way the GOP is going to recover. One set rises above the fray and clearly and explicitly states why America does better with conservative methods. The second can be the front line in the mudslinging MSM/leftard shite fest.
Point 1 is particularly important and could have been strengthened. She needs to stay positive for ever, not just for now. People running for office can't win on a negative campaign especially against someone like the O.
And as you state, she and all other GOP candidates can leave the gutter fights to those of us in the field and the small number of rightie pundits. A two-set strategy is the only way the GOP is going to recover. One set rises above the fray and clearly and explicitly states why America does better with conservative methods. The second can be the front line in the mudslinging MSM/leftard shite fest.
Posted by: Iskandar at July 04, 2009 12:32 PM (DwKMY)
Posted by: Snow Billy at July 04, 2009 12:34 PM (i31Zq)
221
Russ,
Spot on, VDH has similar comments at NR. Sarah can do so much more without role/responsibilities as a governor,distractions from ethics attack ect. So spend time with the family, build relationships with smart and principled thinkers- get detailed knowledge and options on economics and other national issues. Pay for it with speaking fees and support fellow conservatives at state and local level. Agree, do not ever hire anyone connected with the former McCain campaign ever.
Spot on, VDH has similar comments at NR. Sarah can do so much more without role/responsibilities as a governor,distractions from ethics attack ect. So spend time with the family, build relationships with smart and principled thinkers- get detailed knowledge and options on economics and other national issues. Pay for it with speaking fees and support fellow conservatives at state and local level. Agree, do not ever hire anyone connected with the former McCain campaign ever.
Posted by: John at July 04, 2009 12:36 PM (6FYZ6)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 12:42 PM (fpywm)
223
Nice post, Russ, but where's the bacon?
Posted by: Y-not at July 04, 2009 12:54 PM (sey23)
224
My number two really stung this know-nothing Palin on the campaign.
Stung her straight out of the Governor's office. Stick fork, confirm
doneness. Happy Fourth.
The Black Mamba.
Stung her straight out of the Governor's office. Stick fork, confirm
doneness. Happy Fourth.
The Black Mamba.
Posted by: The Black Mamba at July 04, 2009 01:06 PM (TyjP0)
225
I'm trying to read every comment, but...
Let's be honest, a lot of males (notice I did not say men?) have no idea what to do with her. Some of the criticism she gets is legit, she is human after all, but a lot of the vicious stuff comes from guys who can't deal with a woman on any level except perhaps, two. If they can't have sex with it, and it won't breastfeed them, they have no use for it. Yes, I used the word "it" on purpose. The dehumanizing of Sarah Palin by many many males on both the left and the right is enough reason for me to remain behind her no matter what she chooses to do, politically.
I'm secure enough in my manhood to be led by a woman.
Let's be honest, a lot of males (notice I did not say men?) have no idea what to do with her. Some of the criticism she gets is legit, she is human after all, but a lot of the vicious stuff comes from guys who can't deal with a woman on any level except perhaps, two. If they can't have sex with it, and it won't breastfeed them, they have no use for it. Yes, I used the word "it" on purpose. The dehumanizing of Sarah Palin by many many males on both the left and the right is enough reason for me to remain behind her no matter what she chooses to do, politically.
I'm secure enough in my manhood to be led by a woman.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 04, 2009 01:12 PM (fSQAV)
226
After sleeping on it, I have to agree with the post. If she says she's going to continue the fight in a different venue, she's not giving up, she's just relinquishing an office that only held advantage for America's domestic enemies, the media, academia, and the party of Obama generally.
I'm with Palin, come what may. She's the closest thing to a real President Americans have today, and the only real chance we have to survive Obama. The GOP is dead.
I'm with Palin, come what may. She's the closest thing to a real President Americans have today, and the only real chance we have to survive Obama. The GOP is dead.
Posted by: Methos at July 04, 2009 01:21 PM (LxYp2)
227
Rick Moran has an interesting take on the experience argument. If our
"experienced leadership" in DC has so badly fucked things up, picking
our pockets clean while handing it over to politically favored friends,
the masses may have the pitchforks out for anybody inside the gilded
fortress of the Beltway
Ordinarily, I would agree with that sentiment. Except, we live in
wondrously strange times in American politics and Im not sure that
many of the old verities still hold true. Allah rightly dismisses the
Obama comparison Palinites could use to defend her as far as serving
time in an important office. But there is the possibility that by the
time 2012 rolls around, American politics will be upside down with
government at all levels being in such bad odor that running as an
experienced candidate may be the kiss of death.
Who knows?
"experienced leadership" in DC has so badly fucked things up, picking
our pockets clean while handing it over to politically favored friends,
the masses may have the pitchforks out for anybody inside the gilded
fortress of the Beltway
Ordinarily, I would agree with that sentiment. Except, we live in
wondrously strange times in American politics and Im not sure that
many of the old verities still hold true. Allah rightly dismisses the
Obama comparison Palinites could use to defend her as far as serving
time in an important office. But there is the possibility that by the
time 2012 rolls around, American politics will be upside down with
government at all levels being in such bad odor that running as an
experienced candidate may be the kiss of death.
Who knows?
Posted by: kbdabear at July 04, 2009 01:40 PM (0Lv+U)
228
Why dopes like Frum and Allah want to be a permanent minority is beyond me.
Frum thinks DemSM annointment will sell his books. Hasn't worked for him so far, but he apparently thinks you can do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
Besides getting a rump ride from Meghan, Allah looks at the Hot Air job as a stepping stone to a DemSM job. He knows that "good" conservatives only bash conservatives while admiring the leftists for their brilliance.
Neither of them think of themselves as cellblock bitches. Everyone knows it but them but that doesn't stop them from trying to pretend otherwise
Frum thinks DemSM annointment will sell his books. Hasn't worked for him so far, but he apparently thinks you can do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
Besides getting a rump ride from Meghan, Allah looks at the Hot Air job as a stepping stone to a DemSM job. He knows that "good" conservatives only bash conservatives while admiring the leftists for their brilliance.
Neither of them think of themselves as cellblock bitches. Everyone knows it but them but that doesn't stop them from trying to pretend otherwise
Posted by: kbdabear at July 04, 2009 01:46 PM (0Lv+U)
229
kbdabear,
Add Ed M. to the cell block. He's in charge of making sure the knee pads are ready at any moment.
Add Ed M. to the cell block. He's in charge of making sure the knee pads are ready at any moment.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 01:53 PM (fpywm)
230
Good plan, Russ.
Sorry ... didn't read through the hundreds of comments this time ... am busy baking an apple pie.
Happy Independence Day from this vagino-American!
Sorry ... didn't read through the hundreds of comments this time ... am busy baking an apple pie.
Happy Independence Day from this vagino-American!
Posted by: Girl Thursday at July 04, 2009 01:57 PM (3Xe2F)
231
This furor about Palin cannot be about the woman herself, neither on the right nor the left. She just isn't that powerful or important; she lost in '08, and she's only a one-term governor of a distant and sparsely populated state.
This is about what she represents. On the left, she represents a woman that must not be permitted to exist, a social-con woman who is more powerful than her husband, religious, attractive, and popular. That is merely leftard pathology at work.
On the right, I suspect she represents the vast gap we know exists on the right and especially in the GOP. She's distilled everything a David Brooks or a David Frum hates into a single personality. If you're on the Frum side, you want to not only see her go away, you want her destroyed, along with all the "Limbaugh" factions of the right. Only then can the GOP become the beacon of liberal policies chased with distilled, tasteless water that FrumBrooksPowellMcCain wants it to be. The opposite side defends her for similar but inverted reasons. Well, if we go the Frum route, I have yet to see a good argument that this will do anything but keep the GOP in a permanent minority. Even if it won't be permanent, the Frum prescription is, frankly, standard liberalism anyway.
Many above have noted that this is terra incognita in our debased politics, and I agree. We'll remain a two party system for structural reasons, but one party will likely be a mere rump, powerless nationally. Guess which one. The DNC will look more and more like the PRI of Mexico last century. Welcome to Central America, beginning just below Vancouver.
---
I would love to force other people pay for research and equipment and personnel in my industry. If it's effective for one line of work, it's effective for another. Corporate welfare is delicious, just like protectionism... if you're the one being protected. That's Barry's argument, in essence. You'll love cap-and-trade, with it's business-government partnerships. Best thing to happen since the Sixteenth Amendment.
This is about what she represents. On the left, she represents a woman that must not be permitted to exist, a social-con woman who is more powerful than her husband, religious, attractive, and popular. That is merely leftard pathology at work.
On the right, I suspect she represents the vast gap we know exists on the right and especially in the GOP. She's distilled everything a David Brooks or a David Frum hates into a single personality. If you're on the Frum side, you want to not only see her go away, you want her destroyed, along with all the "Limbaugh" factions of the right. Only then can the GOP become the beacon of liberal policies chased with distilled, tasteless water that FrumBrooksPowellMcCain wants it to be. The opposite side defends her for similar but inverted reasons. Well, if we go the Frum route, I have yet to see a good argument that this will do anything but keep the GOP in a permanent minority. Even if it won't be permanent, the Frum prescription is, frankly, standard liberalism anyway.
Many above have noted that this is terra incognita in our debased politics, and I agree. We'll remain a two party system for structural reasons, but one party will likely be a mere rump, powerless nationally. Guess which one. The DNC will look more and more like the PRI of Mexico last century. Welcome to Central America, beginning just below Vancouver.
---
I would love to force other people pay for research and equipment and personnel in my industry. If it's effective for one line of work, it's effective for another. Corporate welfare is delicious, just like protectionism... if you're the one being protected. That's Barry's argument, in essence. You'll love cap-and-trade, with it's business-government partnerships. Best thing to happen since the Sixteenth Amendment.
Posted by: George Orwell at July 04, 2009 02:07 PM (AZGON)
232
George Orwell, so Palin is our Mousavi?
I'd give her a little more credit than that, but we'll have to wait a little longer yet.
I'd give her a little more credit than that, but we'll have to wait a little longer yet.
Posted by: Methos at July 04, 2009 02:15 PM (LxYp2)
233
Russ,
I only reluctantly read your post (I'm already past my gag reflex with "Advice to Palin" pinheads), but now I'm glad I did. It is gracious and smart. Good job.
I only reluctantly read your post (I'm already past my gag reflex with "Advice to Palin" pinheads), but now I'm glad I did. It is gracious and smart. Good job.
Posted by: wankette at July 04, 2009 02:22 PM (I1Q0P)
234
Wake up. Sarah Palin does not want the job of "Conservative Avenger 2012." She is not running for president in 2012, and probably never. She is a normal person who would like to live a normal life. She does not want the hell of being a national politician. She does not want the role you are fantasizing that she will take. That's not Sarah Palin.
Posted by: Realist at July 04, 2009 02:53 PM (M3hG/)
235
She does not want the hell of being a national politician.
She did last Fall.
I don't know if she's planning on a run for POTUS, but I think it's inaccurate to suggest, as you seem to be doing, that something in Sarah Palin's core as a person prevents her from wanting to be a national politician.
Something may have happened to change her mind, but she certainly was not shying away from the national stage a few months ago.
She did last Fall.
I don't know if she's planning on a run for POTUS, but I think it's inaccurate to suggest, as you seem to be doing, that something in Sarah Palin's core as a person prevents her from wanting to be a national politician.
Something may have happened to change her mind, but she certainly was not shying away from the national stage a few months ago.
Posted by: Y-not at July 04, 2009 03:19 PM (sey23)
236
Posted by: BurtTC at July 04, 2009 01:12 PM (fSQAV)
You've nailed it. Urbane, metrosexual beta-male types (like Allahpundit, Brooks, Frum, etc) are absolutely terrified of strong women, because they're not secure in their own masculinity (or lack thereof). Drop them onto the female half of Paris Island and they'd assume the fetal postion and shit themselves. Her support among men comes from manly-men, not bitch-boys. The men she chooses as friends, employees, and her husband reflects this; they're all secure enough to support her and not worry about walking in her shadow.
And THAT is why insecure women hate her: Men actually listen to her and follow her.
You've nailed it. Urbane, metrosexual beta-male types (like Allahpundit, Brooks, Frum, etc) are absolutely terrified of strong women, because they're not secure in their own masculinity (or lack thereof). Drop them onto the female half of Paris Island and they'd assume the fetal postion and shit themselves. Her support among men comes from manly-men, not bitch-boys. The men she chooses as friends, employees, and her husband reflects this; they're all secure enough to support her and not worry about walking in her shadow.
And THAT is why insecure women hate her: Men actually listen to her and follow her.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at July 04, 2009 03:20 PM (yBWmK)
237
Posted by: Y-not at July 04, 2009 03:19 PM (sey23)
Even if she comes out tomorrow and announces she's never running for office again, we should still support her. She will be a tremendous force in the 2010 elections. I think that's why she quit: in her mind, she can now do more good on the national stage than she can in Alaska. And she's probably right. Meg Stapleton said there was a surge of donations to SarahPAC since her announcement, so I think a lot of other people are noticing as well. I also heard a rumor that PUMA extraordinaire Lynn Rothschild donated $50,000 to Team Sarah.
Even if she comes out tomorrow and announces she's never running for office again, we should still support her. She will be a tremendous force in the 2010 elections. I think that's why she quit: in her mind, she can now do more good on the national stage than she can in Alaska. And she's probably right. Meg Stapleton said there was a surge of donations to SarahPAC since her announcement, so I think a lot of other people are noticing as well. I also heard a rumor that PUMA extraordinaire Lynn Rothschild donated $50,000 to Team Sarah.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at July 04, 2009 03:24 PM (yBWmK)
238
Yeah, sure Realist, every single enemy she has is saying that now she's beaten and she's just going to disappear and stop causing trouble for widdle Barry and the frauds in the GOP, so it must be true. How exactly does that explain her stated intent to fight from a different angle? It doesn't. Either of the 'She's running' or 'She's the new Goldwater' explanations fit better.
Now, you may want to say that leaving the Governorship dooms her so that her intentions don't matter, which seems to be ace's position. I can respect that opinion, though I disagree, if for no other reason than 'If not Palin, then who?' For me her intentions are the core of the issue. I was dumbstruck yesterday because the early coverage sounded like capitulation, but it now seems to have been typical liberal misreporting (and even ace can only re-report what's out there). Whatever she does going forward, I will support, if only to spit in the eye of Obamacult and the go along to get alng Republicans, because we as a nation cannot survive the polices of Obama's party.
Now, you may want to say that leaving the Governorship dooms her so that her intentions don't matter, which seems to be ace's position. I can respect that opinion, though I disagree, if for no other reason than 'If not Palin, then who?' For me her intentions are the core of the issue. I was dumbstruck yesterday because the early coverage sounded like capitulation, but it now seems to have been typical liberal misreporting (and even ace can only re-report what's out there). Whatever she does going forward, I will support, if only to spit in the eye of Obamacult and the go along to get alng Republicans, because we as a nation cannot survive the polices of Obama's party.
Posted by: Methos at July 04, 2009 03:36 PM (LxYp2)
239
Sup Morons,
Nothing like mentioning Sarah Palin to bring out the Mobys and Axelturfers. Kind of like the wig guy.
Happy Independence Day to all, gotta go liberate some Bar Harbor Blueberry Lager from its bottle.
It is Independence Day, the 4th of July is the date, you don't tell people "Merry 25th of December do you?
Nothing like mentioning Sarah Palin to bring out the Mobys and Axelturfers. Kind of like the wig guy.
Happy Independence Day to all, gotta go liberate some Bar Harbor Blueberry Lager from its bottle.
It is Independence Day, the 4th of July is the date, you don't tell people "Merry 25th of December do you?
Posted by: mrcaniac at July 04, 2009 03:58 PM (Rbulg)
240
I found this article excellent and a sharp contrast to Drew M. and other "well intentioned" RINO attack pieces we have been subjected to recently.
The latest meme is the loser and career ender BS. This was said about Nixon after he lost his bid for governor of California and about Reagan after he lost in 1972 and 1976 GOP conventions. Newsweek and Times wrote long articles writting off Reagan. This is the usual RINO, dhimmirat tacic of dealing with opponents that they see as a real threat.
And they fail.
Palin will be back because the Left and the RINOs wouldn't be wasting their energy on a loser. Notice all the smear attacks on Guilliani and Tancredo?
I can only hope the real conservatives blacklist the McCain staffers responsible for these attacks and take off the gloves in regard to the Obamanazis.
The latest meme is the loser and career ender BS. This was said about Nixon after he lost his bid for governor of California and about Reagan after he lost in 1972 and 1976 GOP conventions. Newsweek and Times wrote long articles writting off Reagan. This is the usual RINO, dhimmirat tacic of dealing with opponents that they see as a real threat.
And they fail.
Palin will be back because the Left and the RINOs wouldn't be wasting their energy on a loser. Notice all the smear attacks on Guilliani and Tancredo?
I can only hope the real conservatives blacklist the McCain staffers responsible for these attacks and take off the gloves in regard to the Obamanazis.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at July 04, 2009 04:02 PM (B8gqF)
241
I hope Palin will re-emerge on the national scene, but I am a little worried that there's something that's hitting (or is about to hit) very close to home that is going to keep her from pursuing a national political career.
It seems as though it has to be something to do with her kids or her husband or something like that -- mere political jockeying just doesn't seem like an adequate explanation. Whether or not her resignation rings the death knell on her career, the way it came off (and the timing) suggest to me that it was not entirely planned.
I feel very sad for this country. Rat bastards -- on the Left and the Right, and the soulless circles of aides, advisors, reporters, and pundits they attract -- have at the very least destroyed a successful and popular governor. And the reason they did so is because she failed to fit their molds of what a politician should be.
Fuck that.
It seems as though it has to be something to do with her kids or her husband or something like that -- mere political jockeying just doesn't seem like an adequate explanation. Whether or not her resignation rings the death knell on her career, the way it came off (and the timing) suggest to me that it was not entirely planned.
I feel very sad for this country. Rat bastards -- on the Left and the Right, and the soulless circles of aides, advisors, reporters, and pundits they attract -- have at the very least destroyed a successful and popular governor. And the reason they did so is because she failed to fit their molds of what a politician should be.
Fuck that.
Posted by: Y-not at July 04, 2009 04:17 PM (sey23)
242
I am a little worried that there's something that's hitting (or is
about to hit) very close to home that is going to keep her from
pursuing a national political career.
I.e., "the other shoe is about to drop," per Juan Williams. I really don't think so. Her life has been under a microscope for 8 months already: no scandal could stay "hidden" that long.
about to hit) very close to home that is going to keep her from
pursuing a national political career.
I.e., "the other shoe is about to drop," per Juan Williams. I really don't think so. Her life has been under a microscope for 8 months already: no scandal could stay "hidden" that long.
Posted by: Dave J. at July 04, 2009 04:22 PM (jNE9Q)
243
I dunno. Seems to me there's a pattern here.
McCain's staffers have attacked Palin basically for being undisciplined and wandering off message.
In TV interviews, Plain comes across as undisciplined, unfocused,and rambling.
In her college days she attended something like four different collegesjust to earn a BA - apparently because she was too undisciplined and mercurial to stick with one school.
Recently she got into a fight with a late-night TV hack over a tasteless joke, indicating that she is too undisciplined and reactive to pass up a battle that only diminished her.
Now she's quitting the governorship halfway through her first term - which gives the impression that she is undisciplined, easily frustrated, and has a short attention span.
See the recurring theme? Key word: undisciplined.
Which is a nice way of saying odd, peculiar, flaky, eccentric ...
She's an interesting person, great-looking, energetic,and probably fun to be around, but presidential? Not.
McCain's staffers have attacked Palin basically for being undisciplined and wandering off message.
In TV interviews, Plain comes across as undisciplined, unfocused,and rambling.
In her college days she attended something like four different collegesjust to earn a BA - apparently because she was too undisciplined and mercurial to stick with one school.
Recently she got into a fight with a late-night TV hack over a tasteless joke, indicating that she is too undisciplined and reactive to pass up a battle that only diminished her.
Now she's quitting the governorship halfway through her first term - which gives the impression that she is undisciplined, easily frustrated, and has a short attention span.
See the recurring theme? Key word: undisciplined.
Which is a nice way of saying odd, peculiar, flaky, eccentric ...
She's an interesting person, great-looking, energetic,and probably fun to be around, but presidential? Not.
Posted by: sauropod at July 04, 2009 04:32 PM (r45p0)
244
I am not going to speculate. I guess because cancer has killed just about everyone in my family and my best friend, I always fear the worst when I hear things like this. I'm sure the assholes at the liberal blogs won't give a crap if it is something awful like a bad diagnosis. To all of you who are being so damn mean: just shut up and let her say why, okay?
Posted by: ladylawyer at July 04, 2009 04:42 PM (l9rLH)
245
again, what is "moby"?
Posted by: Ray at July 04, 2009 05:02 PM (1OYRM)
246
What's next, Michael Steel announces he's joining the Libertarian Party?
I'd be more shocked if he joined the Republican Party.
I'd be more shocked if he joined the Republican Party.
Posted by: Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at July 04, 2009 05:06 PM (or0jG)
247
Um, Russ, I didn't say she "should" suck it up. I said that that's expected of an executive. We don't expect executives to resign based on the nastiness of left-wing attacks.
If you're okay now claiming that is what we expect in politics, whatever. I can't fight fantasy.
I never said what she should or should not do. I understand her reasons for deciding this isn't worth it. Her life could be wonderful without this crap.
I said that her decision is incompatible with an interest in seeking higher office, which it is. You can spin whatever silly fantasies you like about this being "3 dimensional chess" or any of the other silly nonsense, but the fact is, it was questionable if she had enough experience for vice president with two years of governor duty under her belt; now supposedly she's qualified for the presidency with 2 1/2 years under her belt.
As the experience factor was a major reason she went from 60% support to 44% support, and now she's terminated further executive experience early, I see this as washing her hands of politics.
Which, again, I understand. You seem to be the one who can't understand that, because you keep spinning theories of how she's really double-secret probation running for president.
Again, bad day, and I know you had your hopes pinned on her, but I am really tired of being slammed for being the guy who doesn't just want to go along with silly fantasies and dreams because they're pleasant.
Sorry to be the guy living in the real world and being the buzzkill.
But I'm sick to death of being told that my addiction to reality and aversion to fantasy is somehow cowardly or defeatist or lacking in virtue.
There is no virtue in indulging in fantasy. None. And realism is not a character flaw.
If you're okay now claiming that is what we expect in politics, whatever. I can't fight fantasy.
I never said what she should or should not do. I understand her reasons for deciding this isn't worth it. Her life could be wonderful without this crap.
I said that her decision is incompatible with an interest in seeking higher office, which it is. You can spin whatever silly fantasies you like about this being "3 dimensional chess" or any of the other silly nonsense, but the fact is, it was questionable if she had enough experience for vice president with two years of governor duty under her belt; now supposedly she's qualified for the presidency with 2 1/2 years under her belt.
As the experience factor was a major reason she went from 60% support to 44% support, and now she's terminated further executive experience early, I see this as washing her hands of politics.
Which, again, I understand. You seem to be the one who can't understand that, because you keep spinning theories of how she's really double-secret probation running for president.
Again, bad day, and I know you had your hopes pinned on her, but I am really tired of being slammed for being the guy who doesn't just want to go along with silly fantasies and dreams because they're pleasant.
Sorry to be the guy living in the real world and being the buzzkill.
But I'm sick to death of being told that my addiction to reality and aversion to fantasy is somehow cowardly or defeatist or lacking in virtue.
There is no virtue in indulging in fantasy. None. And realism is not a character flaw.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 05:18 PM (gEsIJ)
248
this is the fred thompson thing all over again. Where I and others were criticized for taking note of the fact that he wasn't gaining any traction in the polls. With the suggestion, sometimes implicit, that if we all just played along and behaved as if he was catching fire (as we expected he would) we could shape reality accordingly.
Anyone who doesn't "want" it enough = defeatist and somehow responsible for the loss.
Anyone who doesn't "want" it enough = defeatist and somehow responsible for the loss.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 05:24 PM (gEsIJ)
249
Life just doesn't work like this.
When it comes to certain issues and candidates, emotion and fantasy takes over.
Again, I do not mind other people being emotional or pretty unrealistic. I am fine with that. What pisses me off is when I'm criticized for lacking that willingness to indulge in fantasy.
I don't really care what people believe. If you want to believe this all part of Sarah Palin's incredibly counterintuitve and convoluted secret surprise plan for the presidency -- that's fine. But please, for the love of God and everything holy, stop attempting to bully other people into playing Let's Pretend along with you.
I will leave you undisturbed in your fantasy if you are willing to leave me undisturbed in my reality.
When it comes to certain issues and candidates, emotion and fantasy takes over.
Again, I do not mind other people being emotional or pretty unrealistic. I am fine with that. What pisses me off is when I'm criticized for lacking that willingness to indulge in fantasy.
I don't really care what people believe. If you want to believe this all part of Sarah Palin's incredibly counterintuitve and convoluted secret surprise plan for the presidency -- that's fine. But please, for the love of God and everything holy, stop attempting to bully other people into playing Let's Pretend along with you.
I will leave you undisturbed in your fantasy if you are willing to leave me undisturbed in my reality.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 05:28 PM (gEsIJ)
250
Ray: It's called a "search engine." Once you learn to use them, you won't have to wait so long for other people to do it for you. Teach a man to fish and all that.
Ace: We're just been stabbed in the back so many times that we've come to assume that's what's going to happen every day.
Personally I don't think it's over for Palin, nor do I think she's running for Obama's job. I think she's running for Steele's, and more power to her.
Ace: We're just been stabbed in the back so many times that we've come to assume that's what's going to happen every day.
Personally I don't think it's over for Palin, nor do I think she's running for Obama's job. I think she's running for Steele's, and more power to her.
Posted by: Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at July 04, 2009 05:32 PM (or0jG)
251
Maybe. I don't want to argue about it. I just want to be left alone and not by insulted for not having the conservatively-correct level of F A I T H in these things.
I am tired of the bullying. The magical thinkers don't understand how fucking nasty they get when their fantasies are disturbed. they start lashing out at anyone who won't feed them.
I am tired of the bullying. The magical thinkers don't understand how fucking nasty they get when their fantasies are disturbed. they start lashing out at anyone who won't feed them.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 05:34 PM (gEsIJ)
252
Just donated to the sarahpac. Not much, but it is a start. Go give them five bucks, think of it a small stick in the eye of the Democrat/Media incest show. Worth the money to think of the lefty's blood pressure rising. Going to go home, fire up the grill, and wait till the locals start shooting off fireworks. Maybe I will send a few aloft, too....
Posted by: jasonj at July 04, 2009 05:36 PM (69j91)
253
I think we all owe Sarah Palin a huge debt of gratitude for taking the media focus off of Michael Jackson. I haven't heard much of anythingabout him all day. It's all about Sarah.
Posted by: estee at July 04, 2009 05:47 PM (xlYqZ)
254
I see this as washing her hands of politics.
Which, again, I understand. You seem to be the one who can't
understand that, because you keep spinning theories of how she's really
double-secret probation running for president.
She gave her reasons for resigning.You don't believe them
and insist she is really resigning for another reason. That's fine, and
you may be right, but you're the one spinning a theory, not those who
accept her explanation.
Which, again, I understand. You seem to be the one who can't
understand that, because you keep spinning theories of how she's really
double-secret probation running for president.
She gave her reasons for resigning.You don't believe them
and insist she is really resigning for another reason. That's fine, and
you may be right, but you're the one spinning a theory, not those who
accept her explanation.
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 05:52 PM (+d5Ab)
255
schizoid,
Oh? Where in her statement did she say she was now pursuing the presidency?
I believe her statement -- I also happen to believe that if you want to be in politics, you stay in politics. If you don't want to be in politics, you quit your political office.
How on earth this makes her a stronger candidate, somehow, is quite beyond me. The public already had doubts about her; now she added to them. This is her secret plan for storming the White House?
If you want to believe that, again, fine. Please cool it with calling anyone unwilling to credit this dubious theory as likely a "RINO" or so forth.
Oh? Where in her statement did she say she was now pursuing the presidency?
I believe her statement -- I also happen to believe that if you want to be in politics, you stay in politics. If you don't want to be in politics, you quit your political office.
How on earth this makes her a stronger candidate, somehow, is quite beyond me. The public already had doubts about her; now she added to them. This is her secret plan for storming the White House?
If you want to believe that, again, fine. Please cool it with calling anyone unwilling to credit this dubious theory as likely a "RINO" or so forth.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 05:55 PM (gEsIJ)
256
Ace, you might be a little oversensitive on this one, at least concerning Russ. He was pretty delicate with you in this post.
None of this speculation is correct, anyway. Civilization will break down well before 2012. In the end, there will only be... The Empire of Jeff.
None of this speculation is correct, anyway. Civilization will break down well before 2012. In the end, there will only be... The Empire of Jeff.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 04, 2009 05:58 PM (sNaOJ)
257
Oh? Where in her statement did she say she was now pursuing the presidency?
She didn't, but she did say she intends to stay in politics. I don't think she's lying. What she's planning I don't know. And I never called you a RINO.
Oh? Where in her statement did she say she was now pursuing the presidency?
She didn't, but she did say she intends to stay in politics. I don't think she's lying. What she's planning I don't know. And I never called you a RINO.
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 05:59 PM (+d5Ab)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:01 PM (fpywm)
259
Oh, and Flashoverride, I think you are absolutely correct. If we don't regain our position as the world's leading exporter of novelty rubber dog shit, shit-grade Harbor Freight tools and napkin ring holders, then we are finished as a country.
Why don't you lay down on that prayer rug and take a nap?
Why don't you lay down on that prayer rug and take a nap?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 04, 2009 06:02 PM (sNaOJ)
260
in the other thread, by the way, "unseen" once again played the nutroots trump card of imputing bad motives for an opinion (and discounting the motives offered), instructing me that I (and everyone else who found this supposed step towards the presidency dubious) "don't like Palin."
Ah. That's why I'm saying meeeean things. I "don't like her."
Oh yeah, obviously I don't like her. I orgasmed when she was selected as veep. I finally rallied and suported the ticket enthusiastically when she was selected. I traveled to see her speak (and not really for the blog, though I did blog it; I just wanted to be there, part of it). I defended her at every turn.
But, because, like 56% of the country, I developed doubts as to whether she was really up to the job of CINC, and requested that she address these concerns, I "don't like her," and obviously I'm sowing this poisonous doubt among the believers because I seek to sabotage her. I wish ill on her. I hate her, of course; I've just been lying about it for almost a year now.
It is childish. Someone offers a contrary opinion in good faith, their reasons for the opinion clearly and unambiguously expressed, and the childish magical thinkers start insulting him and coming up with alternative explanations -- the REAL explanations -- as to why this LIAR and DEFEATIST is now spreading such obvious untruths.
Again: People can disagree without resorting to insane nutroots bullying and tossing about the "RINO/DEFEATIST/TRAITOR" shit left and right.
Ah. That's why I'm saying meeeean things. I "don't like her."
Oh yeah, obviously I don't like her. I orgasmed when she was selected as veep. I finally rallied and suported the ticket enthusiastically when she was selected. I traveled to see her speak (and not really for the blog, though I did blog it; I just wanted to be there, part of it). I defended her at every turn.
But, because, like 56% of the country, I developed doubts as to whether she was really up to the job of CINC, and requested that she address these concerns, I "don't like her," and obviously I'm sowing this poisonous doubt among the believers because I seek to sabotage her. I wish ill on her. I hate her, of course; I've just been lying about it for almost a year now.
It is childish. Someone offers a contrary opinion in good faith, their reasons for the opinion clearly and unambiguously expressed, and the childish magical thinkers start insulting him and coming up with alternative explanations -- the REAL explanations -- as to why this LIAR and DEFEATIST is now spreading such obvious untruths.
Again: People can disagree without resorting to insane nutroots bullying and tossing about the "RINO/DEFEATIST/TRAITOR" shit left and right.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:03 PM (gEsIJ)
261
Ace, you are confusing staying in office with staying in politics.
Is Mitt out of politics? Newt? Rudy?
Is Mitt out of politics? Newt? Rudy?
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:04 PM (fpywm)
262
Aw, ace, maybe you need to develop a thicker skin. You don't think that [insert name of big money blogger -- Glenn Reynolds? Andrew Sullivan? Well, he may actually be a case of "thick skull" instead of skin] got where they are today by giving into internet criticism, do you? Buck up, there ya go, put on the big girl pants.
Come on, you left yourself open for that.
Seriously, if it had only been Sarah Palin herself who was being attacked and slimed, I'd be less inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt, but the haters had long since given up attacking her directly, except for the occasional reflexive sneer at her accent or looks, and had gone onto the much more satisfying (if you're a rotten-souled creep like so many of the Sarah-hating brigade) target of her children. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this: after having a famous talk show host joke on his nationally popular late night tv show about her being raped by a baseball player whose game she had gone to see with her mother, what sort of reception do you think Willow Palin got from her teenage peers back home? Let me remind you all that teenagers can be the cruellest, most evil group of subhuman monsters on the planet when it comes to their own peer group. I'm wondering if Willow reacted in some way that we haven't heard about that the Palins are keeping under very good wraps; if maybe after what was done to her by David Letterman she got extremely depressed as only teenagers can get. I know that if this had happened to me I would have tried to kill myself -- and I was a level-headed, generally happy teen who never, ever had such thoughts about anything. But then, back in the Seventies I don't ever remember anyone talking about a politician's children the way people talk about Sarah Palin's kids -- not even Amy Carter got this treatment, and she was a fruit loop who gave the press lots of fodder by the time she had grown out of her cute phase.
Anyway, I would not be surprised if this was the family problem that was the last straw that broke the camel's back (on top of all the lawsuits that were costing Palin and the state of Alaska more money than they could afford). No matter what you or I think Sarah Palin should have put up with in the way of insults, no one has any right to expect her children to have to put up with what they've put up with so far. Not when she isn't actively running for office anymore -- she was just trying to do her job as governor. I don't know if she'll ever go back into politics, but I won't blame her if she doesn't -- and it isn't her fault either, it's that of her enemies and the people supposedly on her side who abandoned her.
Come on, you left yourself open for that.
Seriously, if it had only been Sarah Palin herself who was being attacked and slimed, I'd be less inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt, but the haters had long since given up attacking her directly, except for the occasional reflexive sneer at her accent or looks, and had gone onto the much more satisfying (if you're a rotten-souled creep like so many of the Sarah-hating brigade) target of her children. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this: after having a famous talk show host joke on his nationally popular late night tv show about her being raped by a baseball player whose game she had gone to see with her mother, what sort of reception do you think Willow Palin got from her teenage peers back home? Let me remind you all that teenagers can be the cruellest, most evil group of subhuman monsters on the planet when it comes to their own peer group. I'm wondering if Willow reacted in some way that we haven't heard about that the Palins are keeping under very good wraps; if maybe after what was done to her by David Letterman she got extremely depressed as only teenagers can get. I know that if this had happened to me I would have tried to kill myself -- and I was a level-headed, generally happy teen who never, ever had such thoughts about anything. But then, back in the Seventies I don't ever remember anyone talking about a politician's children the way people talk about Sarah Palin's kids -- not even Amy Carter got this treatment, and she was a fruit loop who gave the press lots of fodder by the time she had grown out of her cute phase.
Anyway, I would not be surprised if this was the family problem that was the last straw that broke the camel's back (on top of all the lawsuits that were costing Palin and the state of Alaska more money than they could afford). No matter what you or I think Sarah Palin should have put up with in the way of insults, no one has any right to expect her children to have to put up with what they've put up with so far. Not when she isn't actively running for office anymore -- she was just trying to do her job as governor. I don't know if she'll ever go back into politics, but I won't blame her if she doesn't -- and it isn't her fault either, it's that of her enemies and the people supposedly on her side who abandoned her.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 06:05 PM (Yi1WZ)
263
ace, don't forget "magical thinkers".
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:05 PM (fpywm)
264
schizoid,
no, you didn't, but this comes out a lot, and it's really getting under my skin, as you can probably tell.
Re: her statement about staying in politics
yes, she said that, but that could mean anything, including something like hosting a talk show, or just occasionally giving a speech or attending a fundraiser. There is no particular reason, apart from desire that it be so, to think that is a stealth statement that she's pursuing the presidency.
Given that the action itself seems to be a perfectly-understandable quitting of politics, I think reading it as a getting even MORE into politics is a real stretch.
But we can disagree amiably about it.
no, you didn't, but this comes out a lot, and it's really getting under my skin, as you can probably tell.
Re: her statement about staying in politics
yes, she said that, but that could mean anything, including something like hosting a talk show, or just occasionally giving a speech or attending a fundraiser. There is no particular reason, apart from desire that it be so, to think that is a stealth statement that she's pursuing the presidency.
Given that the action itself seems to be a perfectly-understandable quitting of politics, I think reading it as a getting even MORE into politics is a real stretch.
But we can disagree amiably about it.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:05 PM (gEsIJ)
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>>>Ace, you are confusing staying in office with staying in politics.
>>>>Is Mitt out of politics? Newt? Rudy?
None of those men resigned an unfinished term.
If she were simply not seeking reelection, I would never in a milion years say she's out of politics. Indeed, finishing her term, while clearing her schedule for 2010-2012, would be a solid sign she is running.
But quitting the office that gives her executive experience after just 2 1/2 years? Sheesh! Four years is a fair amount of executive experience (though not a lot, either). But 2 1/2 years?
Not a lot, man. Not a lot. She has voluntarily chosen to reduce the amount of executive experience she'd have under her belt for 2012 from 4 years to 2 1/2 years. I do not see how this can be read as indicating a strong desire to seek the presidency in 2012.
She already had hurdles to jump over; she just gave herself two new ones (smaller amount of executive experience plus "quitter" label).
This is like someone taking two years off from school to travel to Europe. Yes, it's possible they will in fact go to college after wandering. But, and I think this is the part you miss, it also seems to mean they're not all that keen on attending college, at least right now.
>>>>Is Mitt out of politics? Newt? Rudy?
None of those men resigned an unfinished term.
If she were simply not seeking reelection, I would never in a milion years say she's out of politics. Indeed, finishing her term, while clearing her schedule for 2010-2012, would be a solid sign she is running.
But quitting the office that gives her executive experience after just 2 1/2 years? Sheesh! Four years is a fair amount of executive experience (though not a lot, either). But 2 1/2 years?
Not a lot, man. Not a lot. She has voluntarily chosen to reduce the amount of executive experience she'd have under her belt for 2012 from 4 years to 2 1/2 years. I do not see how this can be read as indicating a strong desire to seek the presidency in 2012.
She already had hurdles to jump over; she just gave herself two new ones (smaller amount of executive experience plus "quitter" label).
This is like someone taking two years off from school to travel to Europe. Yes, it's possible they will in fact go to college after wandering. But, and I think this is the part you miss, it also seems to mean they're not all that keen on attending college, at least right now.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:10 PM (gEsIJ)
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Ace, I don't honestly think you need to defend your conservative credentials in such detail. A simple "fuck off" would suffice. Let the nutriders do their own search of your site to research your position. Come to think of it, you should search your site. You'd be seeing a lot of it for the first time.
BURN!
BURN!
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 04, 2009 06:10 PM (sNaOJ)
267
I have no idea what prompted Palin's actions, nor do I know her plans. I think she should spend the next few years documenting the media's campaign of smears and lies against her, her family and others caught in the maw of the lapdog media. No institution in the country is more responsible for the disaster that is the Obama regime. Palin could perform a service more important than any available in government by exposing the thugs and character assassins who produce such wonders as the Washington Post "pay for play" salons and the professional liars from Walter Duranty to Jason Blair who are the stars of our beloved media.
Posted by: Ken Hahn at July 04, 2009 06:14 PM (gHFXi)
268
yes, she said that, but that could mean anything, including something
like hosting a talk show, or just occasionally giving a speech or
attending a fundraiser. There is no particular reason, apart from
desire that it be so, to think that is a stealth statement that she's
pursuing the presidency.
I agree it could be anything, but she didn't rule out a run for the presidency either, so she's at least considering the possibility. If she really wanted to quit because she can't take the heat anymore she wouldn't have left that out there because it guarantees the smears against her and her family will only intensify. I think it was the lawsuits that forced her out.
like hosting a talk show, or just occasionally giving a speech or
attending a fundraiser. There is no particular reason, apart from
desire that it be so, to think that is a stealth statement that she's
pursuing the presidency.
I agree it could be anything, but she didn't rule out a run for the presidency either, so she's at least considering the possibility. If she really wanted to quit because she can't take the heat anymore she wouldn't have left that out there because it guarantees the smears against her and her family will only intensify. I think it was the lawsuits that forced her out.
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 06:14 PM (+d5Ab)
269
ace, review the facts of what was going on in Alaska and try again.
You can do better than that drivel.
"Stay in office" "executive experience"
She was driven from office. She made the only good move left to her. Staying in office would give her the "executive experience" of being unable to do her job for the people of Alaska.
Why do you block out the critical facts?
You can do better than that drivel.
"Stay in office" "executive experience"
She was driven from office. She made the only good move left to her. Staying in office would give her the "executive experience" of being unable to do her job for the people of Alaska.
Why do you block out the critical facts?
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:15 PM (fpywm)
270
I don't understand how my position is being read as unsympathetic to palin, or apoloigzing for the left's sick attacks on her, etc.
People keep responding to me as if I've said that. I have not.
I don't know how many times I can say "This is understandable" before people believe these are not just empty words. I do believe this is understandable.
I just do not believe it evinces an intent to run for higher office.
It evinces an attempt to protect her family from the vile left.
Which is incompatible with seeking the presidency. Such attacks, as bad as the are now, would be increased by two or three or four times in intensity.
People keep responding to me as if I've said that. I have not.
I don't know how many times I can say "This is understandable" before people believe these are not just empty words. I do believe this is understandable.
I just do not believe it evinces an intent to run for higher office.
It evinces an attempt to protect her family from the vile left.
Which is incompatible with seeking the presidency. Such attacks, as bad as the are now, would be increased by two or three or four times in intensity.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:16 PM (gEsIJ)
271
>>> She was driven from office. She made the only good move left to her.
Perhaps this has been answered, but why couldn't she open a legal defense fund (which would be filled in two days) or seek to tighten the requirements for filing an ethics complaint -- including a penalty for abuse of process?
Those are some moves. Can you tell me why they were not open to her?
Perhaps this has been answered, but why couldn't she open a legal defense fund (which would be filled in two days) or seek to tighten the requirements for filing an ethics complaint -- including a penalty for abuse of process?
Those are some moves. Can you tell me why they were not open to her?
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:18 PM (gEsIJ)
272
Hmm. Seems like even though Palin said nothing about running for office, people are grasping at the thinnest of reeds and using her as a blank canvas to project their own hopes and desires onto. Now who the fuck does that sound like?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 04, 2009 06:21 PM (sNaOJ)
273
ace, Palin should have been left in relative peace just as McCaine has been, but she was not.
She saw the graph of where her Governorship was going, she saw the certain outcome of doing what you wanted her to do, and she saw that to stay in office was exactly the wrong thing to do.
She saw the graph of where her Governorship was going, she saw the certain outcome of doing what you wanted her to do, and she saw that to stay in office was exactly the wrong thing to do.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:22 PM (fpywm)
274
According to other commenters here, she did open a legal defense fund. It didn't raise enough money and the fund itself drew another ethics complaint.
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 06:22 PM (+d5Ab)
275
eman, can you explain to me what is flawed with my theory, to wit:
The nastiness of the left, especially as regards her kids, made her decide politics simply was not worth the personal costs.
You ask what's wrong with your theory. Okay -- poke holes in mine, and tell me why I'm wrong.
BTW, I think what is causing some of the refusal to accept my theory is this: My theory means the left "won" its dubious victory, by simply attempting to bankrupt the woman through abuse of process and subjecting her to the worst attacks possible on her children.
There is something that rebels about this idea. Vile behavior should not prevail. It's unjust. Villains ought not profit by their villainy.
So there is a refusal to accept the possibility that this unjust thing is precisely what happened. And theories are spun that she's secretly plotting her vengeance. And her justice.
But the fact is that villains often DO profit from their villainy, and they often beat good people through the simple fact they are willing, or even eager, to cross every boundary of decency to impose their sick will on others.
The nastiness of the left, especially as regards her kids, made her decide politics simply was not worth the personal costs.
You ask what's wrong with your theory. Okay -- poke holes in mine, and tell me why I'm wrong.
BTW, I think what is causing some of the refusal to accept my theory is this: My theory means the left "won" its dubious victory, by simply attempting to bankrupt the woman through abuse of process and subjecting her to the worst attacks possible on her children.
There is something that rebels about this idea. Vile behavior should not prevail. It's unjust. Villains ought not profit by their villainy.
So there is a refusal to accept the possibility that this unjust thing is precisely what happened. And theories are spun that she's secretly plotting her vengeance. And her justice.
But the fact is that villains often DO profit from their villainy, and they often beat good people through the simple fact they are willing, or even eager, to cross every boundary of decency to impose their sick will on others.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:24 PM (gEsIJ)
276
>>>she did open a legal defense fund. It didn't raise enough money and the fund itself drew another ethics complaint.
Then that is both my bad as a blogger and her bad for not alerting us bloggers to that fact.
I do not think it is unreasonable to think that if every rightwing blog linked her fund for two weeks she could raise 500,000.
Then that is both my bad as a blogger and her bad for not alerting us bloggers to that fact.
I do not think it is unreasonable to think that if every rightwing blog linked her fund for two weeks she could raise 500,000.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:26 PM (gEsIJ)
277
Those moves you suggest, ace, would not have solved the problem.
The purpose of the attacks was to drain her strength, use up her resources, increase the stress. More money could have helped, but then she would have been committed to that strategy and her foes could have turned the attacks up to 11.
A clean break, on the other hand, leaves her foes not knowing what to do, not knowing what comes next. She has switched from defense to offense.
The purpose of the attacks was to drain her strength, use up her resources, increase the stress. More money could have helped, but then she would have been committed to that strategy and her foes could have turned the attacks up to 11.
A clean break, on the other hand, leaves her foes not knowing what to do, not knowing what comes next. She has switched from defense to offense.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:27 PM (fpywm)
278
as for drawing a complaint -- of course it did. That's all that sick scrunt does is files complaints, that alaska anti-palin blogger bitch. She files one after the other.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 06:27 PM (gEsIJ)
279
ace, I think the quitter element of your position and the idea that leaving office has to a bonehead move are the two things with which I most disagree.
I do not think you are a RINO or a lefty stooge or traitor or any of that other stuff. But, I do think you are too enamored of the Belt Way mode of thinking. Hmm, I wonder what David Gergen makes of this? kind of reflex.
I do not think you are a RINO or a lefty stooge or traitor or any of that other stuff. But, I do think you are too enamored of the Belt Way mode of thinking. Hmm, I wonder what David Gergen makes of this? kind of reflex.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:33 PM (fpywm)
280
The nastiness of the left, especially as regards her kids, made her decide politics simply was not worth the personal costs.
You ask what's wrong with your theory. Okay -- poke holes in mine, and tell me why I'm wrong.
If she wanted to be
left alone she would have resigned quietly, not stirred the pot with a
combative speech and a vague promise to continue the fight.
The nastiness of the left, especially as regards her kids, made her decide politics simply was not worth the personal costs.
You ask what's wrong with your theory. Okay -- poke holes in mine, and tell me why I'm wrong.
If she wanted to be
left alone she would have resigned quietly, not stirred the pot with a
combative speech and a vague promise to continue the fight.
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 06:34 PM (+d5Ab)
281
Palin could go on the road and flop like pancake. Fine, but that is another story.
Review the facts.
How did she do in drawing crowds last year?
How many McCaine votes were really Palin votes?
How did she affect the special election in Georgia?
What has she done to make Conservatives turn against her?
How did she handle people like Letterman?
How does she handle the press now as compared to last year?
Review the facts.
How did she do in drawing crowds last year?
How many McCaine votes were really Palin votes?
How did she affect the special election in Georgia?
What has she done to make Conservatives turn against her?
How did she handle people like Letterman?
How does she handle the press now as compared to last year?
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 06:40 PM (fpywm)
282
I.e., "the other shoe is about to drop," per Juan Williams.
Not necessarily a Sarah Palin scandal. Really, I was thinking more along the lines of family dynamics.
There may be another round of attacks on Todd coming over the separatist thing (seems like we got some rumblings last week, didn't we);
her son may be facing some shit in the military because of his famous mom;
there may be fresh dirt on Bristol;
or, maybe there's a health issue with Trig.
In any event, I don't know what her relationship with Todd is like. He seems supportive enough, but they seem to come from a pretty traditional families yet their own marriage is quite untraditional. Perhaps things just kept adding up with no end in sight and it started affecting their marriage.
I really doesn't matter if the scandals are real scandals, just that they are draining the family's resources -- in time, money, and emotional energy -- and there's no end in sight.
Not necessarily a Sarah Palin scandal. Really, I was thinking more along the lines of family dynamics.
There may be another round of attacks on Todd coming over the separatist thing (seems like we got some rumblings last week, didn't we);
her son may be facing some shit in the military because of his famous mom;
there may be fresh dirt on Bristol;
or, maybe there's a health issue with Trig.
In any event, I don't know what her relationship with Todd is like. He seems supportive enough, but they seem to come from a pretty traditional families yet their own marriage is quite untraditional. Perhaps things just kept adding up with no end in sight and it started affecting their marriage.
I really doesn't matter if the scandals are real scandals, just that they are draining the family's resources -- in time, money, and emotional energy -- and there's no end in sight.
Posted by: Y-not at July 04, 2009 06:41 PM (sey23)
283
shoot the hostage
Posted by: Jones, amateur shrink at July 04, 2009 06:45 PM (KOkrW)
284
Ace, I think most people in your comments sections agree with you regarding how this move effects any presidential hopes she may have had. Which is why you aren't seeing a bunch of "yay, she resigned as governor!" type posts here. Mostly people are venting because they don't like this. If too much of the RINO stuff appears to be directed at you, I can only say for myself that I don't see you that way.
I don't like this, and I'm going to continue to support her political activities. I can't think of anything more to say about it, other than I guess we'll all see what those political activities will be.
I don't like this, and I'm going to continue to support her political activities. I can't think of anything more to say about it, other than I guess we'll all see what those political activities will be.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 04, 2009 06:51 PM (fSQAV)
285
Ace - a blogger who jealously guards his anonymity isn't exactly the right person to tell me about how Sarah Palin should just suck it up and take all the unhinged criticism from cretins like Andrew Sullivan as "part of the job".
It's funny 'cause it's true!
Anyhoo, good points there.
Most of importantly, and something waaay too many supposed "thinkers" are totally missing here: *AHEM*...
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY SHE DID IT OR WHERE SHE PLANS TO GO WITH IT FROM HERE YET!!!
Gotta say, when people start writing her off without knowing where this is going, they sound no different than the douchenozzles on the left who've been calling her a moron since the minute she got the VP tap. Great company yer keeping there, folks.
So give the woman some credit for being smarter than the lefty douchenozzles think she is, and see where she's going with this before writing her off/throwing her under the bus.
Jesus, when did this place(and many like it) become friggin' HuffPo and DU?
It's funny 'cause it's true!
Anyhoo, good points there.
Most of importantly, and something waaay too many supposed "thinkers" are totally missing here: *AHEM*...
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY SHE DID IT OR WHERE SHE PLANS TO GO WITH IT FROM HERE YET!!!
Gotta say, when people start writing her off without knowing where this is going, they sound no different than the douchenozzles on the left who've been calling her a moron since the minute she got the VP tap. Great company yer keeping there, folks.
So give the woman some credit for being smarter than the lefty douchenozzles think she is, and see where she's going with this before writing her off/throwing her under the bus.
Jesus, when did this place(and many like it) become friggin' HuffPo and DU?
Posted by: SuperCool at July 04, 2009 06:53 PM (chNlj)
286
Ace,
Things that this Canadian has seen in the last 2 years:
1) A french only speaking guy being selected as the Liberal leader for majority English speaking Canada. Thinks that giving us a new tax will win the day.
2) An empty suit with community organizer experience being elected as POTUS.
3) A guy that has been out of Canada for the last 34 years (living in GB and US) replacing the french guy without even a vote within the Liberal party.
That's my reality - it actually happened. From what I see, the only reality here is that Palin resigned ... nothing more, nothing less.
Things that this Canadian has seen in the last 2 years:
1) A french only speaking guy being selected as the Liberal leader for majority English speaking Canada. Thinks that giving us a new tax will win the day.
2) An empty suit with community organizer experience being elected as POTUS.
3) A guy that has been out of Canada for the last 34 years (living in GB and US) replacing the french guy without even a vote within the Liberal party.
That's my reality - it actually happened. From what I see, the only reality here is that Palin resigned ... nothing more, nothing less.
Posted by: Westerner at July 04, 2009 06:57 PM (VxSn2)
287
294 Ace - a blogger who jealously guards his anonymity isn't exactly the right person to tell me about how Sarah Palin should just suck it up and take all the unhinged criticism from cretins like Andrew Sullivan as "part of the job".
It's funny 'cause it's true!
It's not a fair comparison. Lots of bloggers guard their privacy; that's part of the nature of blogging, and part of its appeal. But elected officials know they are going to be in the spotlight. For them, taking personal criticism is part of the job. If Palin is sick and tired of all the attacks, then she must be sick and tired of occupying (or seeking) elected office - because the two have always gone together.
It's funny 'cause it's true!
It's not a fair comparison. Lots of bloggers guard their privacy; that's part of the nature of blogging, and part of its appeal. But elected officials know they are going to be in the spotlight. For them, taking personal criticism is part of the job. If Palin is sick and tired of all the attacks, then she must be sick and tired of occupying (or seeking) elected office - because the two have always gone together.
Posted by: sauropod at July 04, 2009 07:09 PM (r45p0)
288
Check Conservatives 4 Palin blog for a press release from Sarah's lawyer...looks like we have fighter!
Posted by: kmiller1k at July 04, 2009 07:16 PM (YebhT)
289
>>>I think most people in your comments sections agree with you regarding how this move effects any presidential hopes she may have had. Which is why you aren't seeing a bunch of "yay, she resigned as governor!" type posts here.
Many but I don't know about "most." Seems evenly divided, and there are those who believe this is a "yay" situation, that she's improved her hand.
As I wrote above I think that is partly due to the revulsion at the notion that villains "won" by simply being vicious 24/7. It's hard to accept they 'win" and that's it.
But I think they did win. I think they badgered and harassed and slimed her out of office.
Many but I don't know about "most." Seems evenly divided, and there are those who believe this is a "yay" situation, that she's improved her hand.
As I wrote above I think that is partly due to the revulsion at the notion that villains "won" by simply being vicious 24/7. It's hard to accept they 'win" and that's it.
But I think they did win. I think they badgered and harassed and slimed her out of office.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 07:28 PM (gEsIJ)
290
But I think they did win. I think they badgered and harassed and slimed her out of office.
Posted by: ace
I agree. It was a tactical victory for the scumwhales.
I hope she can turn it around into a strategic defeat for the buck-toothed yellow monkeys.
Sorry, I flashed back to WWII for a second there.
Posted by: ace
I agree. It was a tactical victory for the scumwhales.
I hope she can turn it around into a strategic defeat for the buck-toothed yellow monkeys.
Sorry, I flashed back to WWII for a second there.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 07:40 PM (fpywm)
291
>> partly due to the revulsion at the notion that villains "won" by simply being vicious 24/7
And partlya visceral reaction to someone you feel so strongly about "quitting". Hard to accept.
Yeah, I know, "duh".
And partlya visceral reaction to someone you feel so strongly about "quitting". Hard to accept.
Yeah, I know, "duh".
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 04, 2009 07:44 PM (eiOZw)
292
You know, about that idea that she was going to run for president in 2012... where did that come from exactly? I can't remember her ever saying that she had decided to do so.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 07:50 PM (Yi1WZ)
293
The counterattack has begun, from Palin's Lawyer:
"To the extent several websites, most notably liberal Alaska blogger Shannyn Moore, are now claiming as fact that Governor Palin resigned because she is under federal investigation for embezzlement or other criminal wrongdoing, we will be exploring legal options this week to address such defamation."
"To the extent several websites, most notably liberal Alaska blogger Shannyn Moore, are now claiming as fact that Governor Palin resigned because she is under federal investigation for embezzlement or other criminal wrongdoing, we will be exploring legal options this week to address such defamation."
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 07:50 PM (fpywm)
294
Not really, Ace.
She has about a year and a half to go in this present term.
She's already faced - and been cleared - of over 13 ethics charges filed against her.
More were coming.
So I believe she asked herself is he wanted to hang around - after having done everything she wanted to do in the office - for another year and a half fending off another 13+ ethics charges plus anything else they could throw at her.
By resigning, she just made the far-left groups funding these scurrilous attacks waste their money and their time.
They had a whole bunch of new charges all ready to roll out against her and now they have no target. She's mobile and she's going to be national now. She's not pinned down in Alaska where they can use formal complaints to keep her tied down and tied up.
I agree with Maitlin - if nothing scandalous comes up, this was a brilliant move on Sarah's part. Now she's like Romney - free to move around and comment and not have people tell her -
"Hey you............YEAH YOU....shouldn't you be in Alaska right now doing your job? Answering all those new ethics complaints we've got lined up?"
Half the charges they used in the past - and likely more than half coming her way in the future if she stayed there - were related to her family. By resigning she not only removes herself as a target, but also her family.
The Leftards were able to try to slime her with one ethics complaint after another in Alaska because the media was helping them do it, talking about the complaints but ignoring the fact each one was investigated and dismissed as baseless.
They can do that because she's isolated and had lower visibility in Alaska. Once she goes national, they have no way to lodge official ethics complaints against her because she holds no elective office and even if she did and they tried these ethics complaints on a national stage it would be shown over and over again the charges were frivolous. And the media would have to cover all the charges in greater detail - and the public would not only see that the charges are cheap stuff, they'd have to see them get dismissed over and over.
So now they can't use this against her anymore. Her profile is actually going to be higher, not lower. And they can't use her Governor's office against her any more.
So I think Mary Maitlin has it right - and all the inside-the-beltway RINO's have it wrong.
She has about a year and a half to go in this present term.
She's already faced - and been cleared - of over 13 ethics charges filed against her.
More were coming.
So I believe she asked herself is he wanted to hang around - after having done everything she wanted to do in the office - for another year and a half fending off another 13+ ethics charges plus anything else they could throw at her.
By resigning, she just made the far-left groups funding these scurrilous attacks waste their money and their time.
They had a whole bunch of new charges all ready to roll out against her and now they have no target. She's mobile and she's going to be national now. She's not pinned down in Alaska where they can use formal complaints to keep her tied down and tied up.
I agree with Maitlin - if nothing scandalous comes up, this was a brilliant move on Sarah's part. Now she's like Romney - free to move around and comment and not have people tell her -
"Hey you............YEAH YOU....shouldn't you be in Alaska right now doing your job? Answering all those new ethics complaints we've got lined up?"
Half the charges they used in the past - and likely more than half coming her way in the future if she stayed there - were related to her family. By resigning she not only removes herself as a target, but also her family.
The Leftards were able to try to slime her with one ethics complaint after another in Alaska because the media was helping them do it, talking about the complaints but ignoring the fact each one was investigated and dismissed as baseless.
They can do that because she's isolated and had lower visibility in Alaska. Once she goes national, they have no way to lodge official ethics complaints against her because she holds no elective office and even if she did and they tried these ethics complaints on a national stage it would be shown over and over again the charges were frivolous. And the media would have to cover all the charges in greater detail - and the public would not only see that the charges are cheap stuff, they'd have to see them get dismissed over and over.
So now they can't use this against her anymore. Her profile is actually going to be higher, not lower. And they can't use her Governor's office against her any more.
So I think Mary Maitlin has it right - and all the inside-the-beltway RINO's have it wrong.
Posted by: manofaiki at July 04, 2009 07:53 PM (uSh7j)
295
re:
178
Nice post, Russ. Positive suggestions instead of destructive criticisms and descriptions of where she 'blew it".
And the point about our host was well made and accurate.
Posted by: West at July 04, 2009 10:24 AM (Rupsw)
Please don't go too far with my comment about Ace.
I don't think he's wrong to criticize Sarah Palin here. I just think
he's being too pessimistic and relying too much on "conventional
wisdom". Pessimists are important people to have associated with every
endeavor, but they need to be balanced out with realists and optimists
in a "big tent" movement.Russ,I do not intend to take on or disown Ace, that'd be like a flea
attacking a rottweiler, intellectually. Not to mention that this is his
own house.BUT, if Ace thinks Sarah should be able to take a little criticism, how's about a little "pot, kettle", action? I don't intend to take it any farther than what you said, and I did not do so, but what you said was fully appropriate.
However, I have been making the point that I am getting extremely jaded on the conservative bashing conservative action here and everywhere. If people support someone, I would like them do do so aware of the flaws that everyone has, and make some allowances for human frailty and imperfection. Right now Sarah is still the brightest star in the conservative heavens (one of them, at least, out of maybe, what? 4? 5?), and this blue on blue crap is the last thing the conservative movement needs right now. It's liberals that are turning our feckless leader into a perfect god archetype, and we should not attempt to tear down our leaders when they display less than god-like flawlessness. A little too much of the wolf pack in that.Support our people, give them the benefit of the doubt, and support them when they need it instead of spending extended time highlighting their flaws. Also criticize them constructivly when we think we have something to add to the debate. Let's spend time pointing out the endless, myriad flaws in the competition, instead.
178
Nice post, Russ. Positive suggestions instead of destructive criticisms and descriptions of where she 'blew it".
And the point about our host was well made and accurate.
Posted by: West at July 04, 2009 10:24 AM (Rupsw)
Please don't go too far with my comment about Ace.
I don't think he's wrong to criticize Sarah Palin here. I just think
he's being too pessimistic and relying too much on "conventional
wisdom". Pessimists are important people to have associated with every
endeavor, but they need to be balanced out with realists and optimists
in a "big tent" movement.Russ,I do not intend to take on or disown Ace, that'd be like a flea
attacking a rottweiler, intellectually. Not to mention that this is his
own house.BUT, if Ace thinks Sarah should be able to take a little criticism, how's about a little "pot, kettle", action? I don't intend to take it any farther than what you said, and I did not do so, but what you said was fully appropriate.
However, I have been making the point that I am getting extremely jaded on the conservative bashing conservative action here and everywhere. If people support someone, I would like them do do so aware of the flaws that everyone has, and make some allowances for human frailty and imperfection. Right now Sarah is still the brightest star in the conservative heavens (one of them, at least, out of maybe, what? 4? 5?), and this blue on blue crap is the last thing the conservative movement needs right now. It's liberals that are turning our feckless leader into a perfect god archetype, and we should not attempt to tear down our leaders when they display less than god-like flawlessness. A little too much of the wolf pack in that.Support our people, give them the benefit of the doubt, and support them when they need it instead of spending extended time highlighting their flaws. Also criticize them constructivly when we think we have something to add to the debate. Let's spend time pointing out the endless, myriad flaws in the competition, instead.
Posted by: West at July 04, 2009 07:58 PM (Rupsw)
Posted by: sartana at July 04, 2009 07:59 PM (0cY8h)
297
Plus, from the same source, conservatives4palin.com:
"These falsehoods abuse the right to free speech; continuing to publish these falsehoods of criminal activity is reckless, done without any regard for the truth, and is actionable.
Thomas Van Flein, for
Governor Sarah Palin"
"These falsehoods abuse the right to free speech; continuing to publish these falsehoods of criminal activity is reckless, done without any regard for the truth, and is actionable.
Thomas Van Flein, for
Governor Sarah Palin"
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 08:00 PM (fpywm)
298
>> BUT, if Ace thinks Sarah should be able to take a little criticism, how's about a little "pot, kettle", action?
Right, because being a moron blogger is just like being a head of state.
Really. They get dental and everything.
Right, because being a moron blogger is just like being a head of state.
Really. They get dental and everything.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 04, 2009 08:01 PM (eiOZw)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 08:05 PM (fpywm)
300
I DID NOT FUCKING SAY SARAH PALIN SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE A LITTLE CRITICISM, YOU FUCKING RETARD.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:06 PM (gEsIJ)
301
Yeah,
and if Ace gets a little testy after taking some flak from his own readers, I wonder how he'd feel after being ass-raped with a hot poker 24/7 for 10 months by the national media and our cultural elites.
Ace, would it kill you to at least attempt engaging in a little positive spin on Palin's actions?
and if Ace gets a little testy after taking some flak from his own readers, I wonder how he'd feel after being ass-raped with a hot poker 24/7 for 10 months by the national media and our cultural elites.
Ace, would it kill you to at least attempt engaging in a little positive spin on Palin's actions?
Posted by: sartana at July 04, 2009 08:10 PM (0cY8h)
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:10 PM (gEsIJ)
303
Yeah: Here's the positive spin. I'm not blogging for a week.
You can fill up the threads with positive spin.
You can fill up the threads with positive spin.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:11 PM (gEsIJ)
304
Remember, if you can just drive out all opinions contrary to yours, you can change reality!
So I'll give you a week to test your theory.
Only positive spin comments allowed (and no posting for me; like Palin, I've fucking had enough).
After a week we can see if you've changed reality just by bullying those who disagree with you into parroting your opinion.
So I'll give you a week to test your theory.
Only positive spin comments allowed (and no posting for me; like Palin, I've fucking had enough).
After a week we can see if you've changed reality just by bullying those who disagree with you into parroting your opinion.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:12 PM (gEsIJ)
305
OUTLAW!
Posted by: sartana at July 04, 2009 08:14 PM (0cY8h)
306
This just in to CNN, every single hobo, um, homeless person, on the East Coast is missing. Just back from lunch with more on this, Candy Crowely. Candy?
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 08:14 PM (fpywm)
307
"Outlaw." Whatever. Change reality by just getting everyone to chant the same holy words passionately enough.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:15 PM (gEsIJ)
308
Ace:
You're actually speaking for a lot of us, and when you defend yourself when accused of being a rino you're defending us as well. One can be a supporter without being a member of a cult-of-personality. Healthy support allows for questioning and doubt.
I'm not much for posting, but I wanted to thank you.
You're actually speaking for a lot of us, and when you defend yourself when accused of being a rino you're defending us as well. One can be a supporter without being a member of a cult-of-personality. Healthy support allows for questioning and doubt.
I'm not much for posting, but I wanted to thank you.
Posted by: Mark at July 04, 2009 08:22 PM (rxqxp)
309
I suppose it makes sense to step on the only plant that has sprouted in your garden if it doesn't match your vision of a perfect garden.
Posted by: Westerner at July 04, 2009 08:23 PM (VxSn2)
310
No ace, you didn't say that Palin should have taken a "little criticism." You said that she should have taken a lot of criticism, in fact, more criticism than I've ever seen thrown at anyone, and all of it (All. Of. It.) either baseless attacks (15 petty accusations of pretend ethics violations, all found to be without foundation), or nasty smears against things we've been supposedly indoctrinated for the past forty-odd years to accept as wonderful -- such as "women should be able to run for office without having the way they look and dress being what everyone focuses on" and "unwed pregnant high school girls should not be attacked for what they did."
Okay, maybe you didn't say that exactly. But the whole idea behind "she should have been stronger" is that it was her and her alone who was suffering... and it wasn't. It was her ability to govern, and it was her family. They were being attacked too. For nothing more than the crime of being her family. We may have had the right to demand Sarah Palin take the pain, but we have no right to demand her family take it too.
Okay, maybe you didn't say that exactly. But the whole idea behind "she should have been stronger" is that it was her and her alone who was suffering... and it wasn't. It was her ability to govern, and it was her family. They were being attacked too. For nothing more than the crime of being her family. We may have had the right to demand Sarah Palin take the pain, but we have no right to demand her family take it too.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 08:29 PM (Yi1WZ)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 08:30 PM (fpywm)
312
">>>she did open a legal defense fund. It didn't raise enough money and the fund itself drew another ethics complaint. Then that is both my bad as a blogger and her bad for not alerting us bloggers to that fact. I do not think it is unreasonable to think that if every rightwing blog linked her fund for two weeks she could raise 500,000.
Posted by: ace"
I am not going to call you a Rino or AP Junior, because honestly I think your a good guy Ace. Then again with some of the talk persons like yourself and Allah have displayed towards her, it might make her people wonder who they could really trusteven inthe blogosphere. Maybe all of you should have reached out to her in solidarity. Honestly Ace, who would you trust to have your back if youlooked at it in the mirror and saw all those daggers potruding out of it.
I toobelieve Mitt Romney shouldhave beenPOTUS or at least our nominee. Thanks to open primaries and that idiot Huck, we were saddled with that incompetant fiscal lunatic Rino McCain. I voted for Palin, the one shining, honest, realperson in that campaign. I like Mitt, but we are not really sure what Mitt Romney will do once in office. Would he flip at the sight of the polls, I am not sure. We just know he as a good mind for business and would hope for the best. I will just note though, Mitt Romney hasn't had unholy hell rained down upon him 6 months after the election. She and McCain LOST, yet they persue her!
I think all the speculation is unwarranted as to what will happen next with Sarah Palin. We should just wait until we get the full story or chapterfrom her, rather than worry about the other outside and un-named cowardly sources that attacker her daily. Conservatives and Moderates, fiscal or otherwise need to face the enemny, rather than hack at our own.
Happy Fourth of July,
Africanus
Posted by: ace"
I am not going to call you a Rino or AP Junior, because honestly I think your a good guy Ace. Then again with some of the talk persons like yourself and Allah have displayed towards her, it might make her people wonder who they could really trusteven inthe blogosphere. Maybe all of you should have reached out to her in solidarity. Honestly Ace, who would you trust to have your back if youlooked at it in the mirror and saw all those daggers potruding out of it.
I toobelieve Mitt Romney shouldhave beenPOTUS or at least our nominee. Thanks to open primaries and that idiot Huck, we were saddled with that incompetant fiscal lunatic Rino McCain. I voted for Palin, the one shining, honest, realperson in that campaign. I like Mitt, but we are not really sure what Mitt Romney will do once in office. Would he flip at the sight of the polls, I am not sure. We just know he as a good mind for business and would hope for the best. I will just note though, Mitt Romney hasn't had unholy hell rained down upon him 6 months after the election. She and McCain LOST, yet they persue her!
I think all the speculation is unwarranted as to what will happen next with Sarah Palin. We should just wait until we get the full story or chapterfrom her, rather than worry about the other outside and un-named cowardly sources that attacker her daily. Conservatives and Moderates, fiscal or otherwise need to face the enemny, rather than hack at our own.
Happy Fourth of July,
Africanus
Posted by: Africanus at July 04, 2009 08:30 PM (/Gtph)
313
Also, I don't think you're a rhino. (RINO? New spelling?) I thought you were an ewok. Hey I only know what I read on INTERNET.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 08:31 PM (Yi1WZ)
314
Sure
Ace's speculations as to Palin's true motivations and political future = Reality
AoSHQ readers who beg to differ = Wingnut Palinbots
GOT IT
Ace's speculations as to Palin's true motivations and political future = Reality
AoSHQ readers who beg to differ = Wingnut Palinbots
GOT IT
Posted by: sartana at July 04, 2009 08:33 PM (0cY8h)
315
It's this insane idea that if you want something to happen, you will also of course agree that it WILL happen, and if you don't agree it will happen, obviously you don't wnat it to happen.
In other words, if you're cheering for one side, you must of course believe that side will win, and if you suggest our side won't win, well, gee, you must be cheering AGAINST us.
It's insane. I wanted thte Giants to win against the Eagles in the playoffs, but I predicted they'd lose, because the Eagles had their number and they were coming apart at the seems. They did lose, for the reasons I guessed (I think). That did not mean I wasn't "on their side," I've been on the Giants' side all my life.
But there is a mentality in the nutroots that if you dare to post a poll showing republicans down and say "we're in trouble, we need a game-changer," well, that means you're secretly rooting against our side.
And if you say that Fred Thompson isn't catching on as hoped, well, you hate Fred Thomson.
And if you do not believe that Sarah Palin has some double-secret probation plan for the presidency, you must hate her too, and you're rooting against her, and cheering for the other side.
This is fucking insane and it must stop. I will not be bullied by this ludicrous magical thinking brigade who insists that only Nice and Positive Words must be uttered or else one is contributing one's Evil Energy to the Wrong Side.
It's insane.
I disagree with you. I have tried to do so pleasantly but I am tired of the imputation of bad motive simply because I am more realistic and less prone to flights of hopeful fancy than you.
If you think I'm wrong, say so (like eman). I do not mind being called wrong. I do, however, greatly mind being called a traitor, of harboring a secret agenda I hide from you in order to advance the MSM's interests, etc., and all the rest of this insane bullshit.
Someone can be wrong HONESTLY, without the need of claiming he's wrong dishonestly, wrong because he's actively intending to subvert the cause (so he can of course get invited to these famous DC dinner parties, etc.)
Stop jumping to claim some one is not just wrong but actively malicious.
It's insane. It's fruit fucking loops. and it's tiresome.
And I do think I am taking off the week. You guys only seem to want to talk about sarah palin and furthermore you only want to hear the same thing -- she's running, this is a great move, she's now perfectly poised for the race, etc.
It's nonsense. And I hardly need to blog about it, because you all seem to know the words to the song. So you don't need me as part of the chorus. You can sing the same words well enough without me.
I am really tired of this relentless nonsense and occasional nastiness whenever someone is believed to have departed from the conservativey correct line.
In other words, if you're cheering for one side, you must of course believe that side will win, and if you suggest our side won't win, well, gee, you must be cheering AGAINST us.
It's insane. I wanted thte Giants to win against the Eagles in the playoffs, but I predicted they'd lose, because the Eagles had their number and they were coming apart at the seems. They did lose, for the reasons I guessed (I think). That did not mean I wasn't "on their side," I've been on the Giants' side all my life.
But there is a mentality in the nutroots that if you dare to post a poll showing republicans down and say "we're in trouble, we need a game-changer," well, that means you're secretly rooting against our side.
And if you say that Fred Thompson isn't catching on as hoped, well, you hate Fred Thomson.
And if you do not believe that Sarah Palin has some double-secret probation plan for the presidency, you must hate her too, and you're rooting against her, and cheering for the other side.
This is fucking insane and it must stop. I will not be bullied by this ludicrous magical thinking brigade who insists that only Nice and Positive Words must be uttered or else one is contributing one's Evil Energy to the Wrong Side.
It's insane.
I disagree with you. I have tried to do so pleasantly but I am tired of the imputation of bad motive simply because I am more realistic and less prone to flights of hopeful fancy than you.
If you think I'm wrong, say so (like eman). I do not mind being called wrong. I do, however, greatly mind being called a traitor, of harboring a secret agenda I hide from you in order to advance the MSM's interests, etc., and all the rest of this insane bullshit.
Someone can be wrong HONESTLY, without the need of claiming he's wrong dishonestly, wrong because he's actively intending to subvert the cause (so he can of course get invited to these famous DC dinner parties, etc.)
Stop jumping to claim some one is not just wrong but actively malicious.
It's insane. It's fruit fucking loops. and it's tiresome.
And I do think I am taking off the week. You guys only seem to want to talk about sarah palin and furthermore you only want to hear the same thing -- she's running, this is a great move, she's now perfectly poised for the race, etc.
It's nonsense. And I hardly need to blog about it, because you all seem to know the words to the song. So you don't need me as part of the chorus. You can sing the same words well enough without me.
I am really tired of this relentless nonsense and occasional nastiness whenever someone is believed to have departed from the conservativey correct line.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:34 PM (gEsIJ)
316
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 05:18 PM (gEsIJ)
She didn't quit because she "couldn't take the heat". She quit because she spent 80% of her time dealing with frivolous ethics complaints filed by worthless pieces of shit. She didn't think it was fair to Alaskans, and thought it would be in everyone's best interests for her to resign. She should be commended for putting her state's interests ahead of her own political ambitions.
So stop being a cockholster.
She didn't quit because she "couldn't take the heat". She quit because she spent 80% of her time dealing with frivolous ethics complaints filed by worthless pieces of shit. She didn't think it was fair to Alaskans, and thought it would be in everyone's best interests for her to resign. She should be commended for putting her state's interests ahead of her own political ambitions.
So stop being a cockholster.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at July 04, 2009 08:36 PM (yBWmK)
317
Where did all this fur come from? Is it like my cat, she sheds when she'd stressed...
Anyway, we could go back to talking about Michael Jackson, if you'd prefer.
Anyway, we could go back to talking about Michael Jackson, if you'd prefer.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 08:37 PM (Yi1WZ)
318
Andrea,
Whatever. Like Sarah Palin, I'm resigning.
This of course means that I'm really GUNG-HO for more politics, I guess. I have a secret plan. Or something.
I didn't say she should take criticism, you idiot. I said that you don't fucking resign from one office, due to attacks and pressure, if you really expect people to vote you into one that comes with more attacks and more pressure.
I understand her wanting out of this disgusting profession, politics. I do not understand, however, how resigning the governorship is compatible with seeking the presidency.
I don't think she should "take criticism." But yeah, if she wants to be president, she sort of has to, because Presidents get criticized. Even more than governors.
That doesn't mean she's weak. In fact, I'm the one who keeps saying this is entirely human. You guys are the ones calling her weak, because you simply cannot accept that her endurance could have possibly worn out. I think that's normal; you seem to be the one that finds that unacceptable.
Whatever. Keep insulting people who don't agree with you though, and blaming them for Palin's decision, and the attacks of the left that prompted it. Maybe you can change reality that way.
And keep thinking happy, happy thoughts!
Whatever. Like Sarah Palin, I'm resigning.
This of course means that I'm really GUNG-HO for more politics, I guess. I have a secret plan. Or something.
I didn't say she should take criticism, you idiot. I said that you don't fucking resign from one office, due to attacks and pressure, if you really expect people to vote you into one that comes with more attacks and more pressure.
I understand her wanting out of this disgusting profession, politics. I do not understand, however, how resigning the governorship is compatible with seeking the presidency.
I don't think she should "take criticism." But yeah, if she wants to be president, she sort of has to, because Presidents get criticized. Even more than governors.
That doesn't mean she's weak. In fact, I'm the one who keeps saying this is entirely human. You guys are the ones calling her weak, because you simply cannot accept that her endurance could have possibly worn out. I think that's normal; you seem to be the one that finds that unacceptable.
Whatever. Keep insulting people who don't agree with you though, and blaming them for Palin's decision, and the attacks of the left that prompted it. Maybe you can change reality that way.
And keep thinking happy, happy thoughts!
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:40 PM (gEsIJ)
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:41 PM (gEsIJ)
320
So one is an "insane fucking Fruit-Loop" believing Palin made the only good move she had open to her, and might now be better positioned for whatever she has planned next?
Now I'm feeling a bit bullied myself.
Now I'm feeling a bit bullied myself.
Posted by: sartana at July 04, 2009 08:43 PM (0cY8h)
321
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 08:40 PM (gEsIJ)
One thing you're overlooking, Ace: Do you want her to campaign and fundraise for Congressional candidates in the Lower 48 in 2010 or not? That is why SarahPAC was set up, and that is where her sights will be set. This isn't just about her running for POTUS.
And I don't really think you're a cockholster, I was just fuckin with ya.
One thing you're overlooking, Ace: Do you want her to campaign and fundraise for Congressional candidates in the Lower 48 in 2010 or not? That is why SarahPAC was set up, and that is where her sights will be set. This isn't just about her running for POTUS.
And I don't really think you're a cockholster, I was just fuckin with ya.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at July 04, 2009 08:44 PM (yBWmK)
322
GO ACE!!!
Posted by: GO ACE at July 04, 2009 08:50 PM (2EvwB)
323
Hold your fire boys
We should all step back and ask ourselves what every true conservative should ask before making an important decision:
What would David Fuckin' Gergen do?
We should all step back and ask ourselves what every true conservative should ask before making an important decision:
What would David Fuckin' Gergen do?
Posted by: David Fuckin' Gergen at July 04, 2009 08:54 PM (0cY8h)
324
Ace, first: don't call me an idiot. I haven't insulted you like that. (Unless the ewok thing is getting to you. But I like and admire your people! At least you're not a Gungan like Jar-Jar Binks and David Frum.)
Second, since when has a vice-presidential candidate been treated like this? Not even Dan Quayle got slapped around that much, and I can't remember anyone attacking his wife and kids (if he had them -- I can't remember -- that's how different things used to be!). She didn't expect this because it was without precedence. (As far as I know. My memories don't extend back into infinite time and space.) Also, her popularity was unexpected. I sure didn't expect to care -- as a general rule, I don't like politicians, they give off that "student yearbook committee" air that sort of repels me. But she's different.
Also, no one expected the slimy media to collaborate in sliming not just her, but her children, and no one expected them to continue the attack once the The One, the Great Obamessiah, won the election. No one expected them to stoop so low.
Second, since when has a vice-presidential candidate been treated like this? Not even Dan Quayle got slapped around that much, and I can't remember anyone attacking his wife and kids (if he had them -- I can't remember -- that's how different things used to be!). She didn't expect this because it was without precedence. (As far as I know. My memories don't extend back into infinite time and space.) Also, her popularity was unexpected. I sure didn't expect to care -- as a general rule, I don't like politicians, they give off that "student yearbook committee" air that sort of repels me. But she's different.
Also, no one expected the slimy media to collaborate in sliming not just her, but her children, and no one expected them to continue the attack once the The One, the Great Obamessiah, won the election. No one expected them to stoop so low.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 09:06 PM (Yi1WZ)
325
Apologies, I am being a real baby.
Although I'm being a baby, and I admit that, I am telling you it is not fun when The Group decides it doesn't like your opinion and will not just say you're wrong, but that you're a bad person for holding that opinion.
I am told I am wrong all the time and it doesn't bother me. When I start being told I'm a RINO and I must obviously hate Sarah Palin and that I, in some bizarre way I can't even fathom, am somehow responsible for this state of affairs because I didn't *support or defend her* (!!!), well, then it's annoying.
And I do think that some view things this way: Either you agree with us and you are a Good Conservative, or you don't and you are a Bad Liberal or Bad Squish. When the Conservatively Correct opinion gets set, you cannot simply be in error. No, when you disagree with the Conservatively Correct opinion, you're obviously *bad*, not just wrong, and also, of course, not really a conservative.
Because all True Conservatives would agree with this, of course.
At any rate, sorry for the "I'm taking the week off" stuff.
But I won't be blogging a single word about Sarah Palin because it is fairly clear to me there is only One Permissible Opinion on that, and I find that state of affairs unacceptable and revolting. So, take it as a protest or whatever, but no Sarah Palin posts this week.
If you can only have one opinion on this, it's really not fit for actual discussion, and nothing much needs to be said about it.
Although I'm being a baby, and I admit that, I am telling you it is not fun when The Group decides it doesn't like your opinion and will not just say you're wrong, but that you're a bad person for holding that opinion.
I am told I am wrong all the time and it doesn't bother me. When I start being told I'm a RINO and I must obviously hate Sarah Palin and that I, in some bizarre way I can't even fathom, am somehow responsible for this state of affairs because I didn't *support or defend her* (!!!), well, then it's annoying.
And I do think that some view things this way: Either you agree with us and you are a Good Conservative, or you don't and you are a Bad Liberal or Bad Squish. When the Conservatively Correct opinion gets set, you cannot simply be in error. No, when you disagree with the Conservatively Correct opinion, you're obviously *bad*, not just wrong, and also, of course, not really a conservative.
Because all True Conservatives would agree with this, of course.
At any rate, sorry for the "I'm taking the week off" stuff.
But I won't be blogging a single word about Sarah Palin because it is fairly clear to me there is only One Permissible Opinion on that, and I find that state of affairs unacceptable and revolting. So, take it as a protest or whatever, but no Sarah Palin posts this week.
If you can only have one opinion on this, it's really not fit for actual discussion, and nothing much needs to be said about it.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:06 PM (gEsIJ)
326
you people should listen to this ace person because what he says really makes just fantastic amounts of sense I think
also, darn kooky, resigning like that. Really very odd.
also, darn kooky, resigning like that. Really very odd.
Posted by: happyfeet at July 04, 2009 09:12 PM (qMJ7e)
327
Andrea,
I never said "she should take not only this criticism but more criticism" and I'm tired of that being repeated.
I also find it tedious that you're instructing me as to how bad the media's treatment of her has been. I know you read this site at least off and on, ergo I trust you know I am fully aware that the media has been unprecedentedly cruel to her and her family. I have said so literally dozens of times; why are you telling me what you know I have written myself? Do you think I have forgotten?
I haven't. I assure you.
You are taking a statement which seems to me well-nigh incontrovertible -- that a President Palin would get three times the abuse that Governor Palin did, ergo, if she feels she must resign her gubernatorial office to protect her family, there is a strong likelihood she would do the same with a presidential office, and ergo, she is either not running or if she does run she now has another high hurdle to jump -- and translating that as "I think Sarah Palin should just keep taking the left's vile abuse and if she decides to protect her family she's a weak person and a quitter and she is unworthy."
I have never said that. You keep translating my words as that, but I have never written them and do not believe them.
What I believe is:
1) Palin has decided this shit isn't worth it.
2) And I don't blame her for that.
3) And that she's out of elective politics. Note this is not the same as out of politics. But out of elective politics.
4) And if she does change her mind, she will find it two or three times as hard to win, because now she doesn't even have the full four year term as governor we thought she'd have by 2012, and on top of that, she quit her office as governor, finding the attacks on her family were too brutal and were making it too difficult to be effective at her job. Which, by the way, is a condition the left/media can easily replicate. Easily.
This is not the same as the crap you keep imputing to me.
I never said "she should take not only this criticism but more criticism" and I'm tired of that being repeated.
I also find it tedious that you're instructing me as to how bad the media's treatment of her has been. I know you read this site at least off and on, ergo I trust you know I am fully aware that the media has been unprecedentedly cruel to her and her family. I have said so literally dozens of times; why are you telling me what you know I have written myself? Do you think I have forgotten?
I haven't. I assure you.
You are taking a statement which seems to me well-nigh incontrovertible -- that a President Palin would get three times the abuse that Governor Palin did, ergo, if she feels she must resign her gubernatorial office to protect her family, there is a strong likelihood she would do the same with a presidential office, and ergo, she is either not running or if she does run she now has another high hurdle to jump -- and translating that as "I think Sarah Palin should just keep taking the left's vile abuse and if she decides to protect her family she's a weak person and a quitter and she is unworthy."
I have never said that. You keep translating my words as that, but I have never written them and do not believe them.
What I believe is:
1) Palin has decided this shit isn't worth it.
2) And I don't blame her for that.
3) And that she's out of elective politics. Note this is not the same as out of politics. But out of elective politics.
4) And if she does change her mind, she will find it two or three times as hard to win, because now she doesn't even have the full four year term as governor we thought she'd have by 2012, and on top of that, she quit her office as governor, finding the attacks on her family were too brutal and were making it too difficult to be effective at her job. Which, by the way, is a condition the left/media can easily replicate. Easily.
This is not the same as the crap you keep imputing to me.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:13 PM (gEsIJ)
328
Ace, this isn't worth leaving for a week...stick with us as we watch what happens.
Posted by: kmiller1k at July 04, 2009 09:15 PM (YebhT)
329
"Idiot" was insulting and I shoudn't have said that but I find it insulting that you, along with Russ (who started this meme rolling, and now old dirty bastard and others) keep insisting that I am saying that what Palin was put through was no big shakes, that she should take endless amounts of nasty attacks, and that she's weak for not wanting more of that.
If you can find a quote to that effect, let me know. It doesn't exist. I never said that.
The closest I came, the only thing you can even TWIST into that, is that the job of presdient does require one to take these attacks, no matter how vicious, and be able to do one's job effectively no matter how many insults and harassments come from political opponents.
That's obviously true, and no one can dispute that, so my remarks are parodized into "Ace doesn't think the attacks Palin suffered are a big deal."
If you can find a quote to that effect, let me know. It doesn't exist. I never said that.
The closest I came, the only thing you can even TWIST into that, is that the job of presdient does require one to take these attacks, no matter how vicious, and be able to do one's job effectively no matter how many insults and harassments come from political opponents.
That's obviously true, and no one can dispute that, so my remarks are parodized into "Ace doesn't think the attacks Palin suffered are a big deal."
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:17 PM (gEsIJ)
330
>>>Ace, this isn't worth leaving for a week...stick with us as we watch what happens.
I'm not, I was being a baby.
Plus, I want to take a week off and it seemed like a good excuse.
I'm not, I was being a baby.
Plus, I want to take a week off and it seemed like a good excuse.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:18 PM (gEsIJ)
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:19 PM (gEsIJ)
332
What's this "bully" stuff? Someone needs a few days off!
Posted by: louis tully at July 04, 2009 09:21 PM (Vc/xe)
333
ace,
2 out of 4 ain't bad
Please stay. I'll show you my manboobs. They're hairy, but they're fun.
2 out of 4 ain't bad
Please stay. I'll show you my manboobs. They're hairy, but they're fun.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 09:21 PM (fpywm)
334
I just do not understand how after defending, supporting, and promoting Palin for close to a year, I say two things -- She needs to become more reassuring fluent and commanding on national policy, and resigning 2 1/2 years from the office that makes her presidential-qualified in the first place is sorta bad for her presidential chances -- and I'm not merely heretical, but excummunicated.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:25 PM (gEsIJ)
335
Re "President Palin" -- I thought you were referring to when she agreed to be the vp candidate to McCain's presidential candidate. I wasn't thinking of any future runs -- I'm not even sure (like everyone else seems to be) that she was going to ever run for president in the future. I agree it seems even more unlikely now.
But I disagree that presidents have to take this sort of thing. It's never been this bad -- not against their young kids anyway. It used to be that the sons and daughters of political figures were tacitly agreed to be "off limits" until they became adults, and sometimes even then, because FFS, it's not like they were to blame for their parents' career decisions. I thought that we were a civilized nation that didn't attack children for what their parents were. I refuse to accept this as the "new reality" because it means we are no longer a nation, we're just a congerie of better-dressed chimpanzees throwing feces at each other. I didn't spend all those years going to frickin' evil school just to end up in a monkey cage.
But I disagree that presidents have to take this sort of thing. It's never been this bad -- not against their young kids anyway. It used to be that the sons and daughters of political figures were tacitly agreed to be "off limits" until they became adults, and sometimes even then, because FFS, it's not like they were to blame for their parents' career decisions. I thought that we were a civilized nation that didn't attack children for what their parents were. I refuse to accept this as the "new reality" because it means we are no longer a nation, we're just a congerie of better-dressed chimpanzees throwing feces at each other. I didn't spend all those years going to frickin' evil school just to end up in a monkey cage.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 09:31 PM (Yi1WZ)
336
I think maybe we've been a little naive when we've been watching the media like the Newsweek and the NPR and the MSNBC and the Katie Couric whip up all teh hate with the liberals and thinking that somehow our responses in this mediasocial environment weren't being shaped every bit as much as theirs ... but whatever... it feels like a conditioned response I think whatever the cause
Posted by: happyfeet at July 04, 2009 09:37 PM (qMJ7e)
337
It is, Ace, getting back to the garden analogy ... you're betting on the weeds, some are betting on the garden.
Posted by: Westerner at July 04, 2009 09:37 PM (VxSn2)
338
The fact attacks were aimed at her family and just never stopped is what really gets to me.
This was just not done.
Our culture is much more cruel these days. Old boundaries are gone.
I hope she counterattacks without mercy.
This was just not done.
Our culture is much more cruel these days. Old boundaries are gone.
I hope she counterattacks without mercy.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 09:39 PM (fpywm)
339
"...she feels she must resign her gubernatorial office to protect her family"
She's never said this. Why do some people have such a hard time taking this woman's words at face value. If you read her statement yesterday, she VERY CLEARLY states that she's leaving because she felt she could no longer perform her duties as governor. She also makes it very clear that she's not finished with public life.
Ace, why do you feel it necessary to try and predict her future, especially when we're now living a future that no one could have predicted.
I, for one, have a little faith. I guess I'm nutty like that.
She's never said this. Why do some people have such a hard time taking this woman's words at face value. If you read her statement yesterday, she VERY CLEARLY states that she's leaving because she felt she could no longer perform her duties as governor. She also makes it very clear that she's not finished with public life.
Ace, why do you feel it necessary to try and predict her future, especially when we're now living a future that no one could have predicted.
I, for one, have a little faith. I guess I'm nutty like that.
Posted by: David Fuckin' Gergen at July 04, 2009 09:39 PM (0cY8h)
340
>>>But I disagree that presidents have to take this sort of thing.
Palin would "have to take it" not in the sense that it SHOULD be part of her job, but that it WOULD be part of her job.
In that sense, yes, she would "have to take it." Either take it, or resign, because, as much as she might want to, she cannot send a Marine Expeditionary Brigade after David Letterman or HuffPo.
I don't know how you perverted my statement, self-evidently true, into some sort of statement that she should stop being a baby and handle what everyone else does. no one else handles this; they aren't asked to.
But she would be asked to, because the left and media has decided different rules apply, and barring some eventuality I can't foresee, I don't know why that would change.
So yes, she would "have to take it," as there is no other option but take it or resign.
Palin would "have to take it" not in the sense that it SHOULD be part of her job, but that it WOULD be part of her job.
In that sense, yes, she would "have to take it." Either take it, or resign, because, as much as she might want to, she cannot send a Marine Expeditionary Brigade after David Letterman or HuffPo.
I don't know how you perverted my statement, self-evidently true, into some sort of statement that she should stop being a baby and handle what everyone else does. no one else handles this; they aren't asked to.
But she would be asked to, because the left and media has decided different rules apply, and barring some eventuality I can't foresee, I don't know why that would change.
So yes, she would "have to take it," as there is no other option but take it or resign.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:40 PM (gEsIJ)
341
Ace @ 334
"And I do think that some Republipundits view things this way: Either you agree with us
and you are a Good Conservative Republican , or you don't and you are a Bad Liberal So-con or Bad Squish Libertarian. When the Conservatively Correct Republipundit opinion gets set, you
cannot simply be in error. No, when you disagree with the
Conservatively Correct Republipundit opinion, you're obviously *bad*, not just wrong,
and also, of course, not really a conservative Republican."
FIFY, whiny one. A fair representation of the Ace/Allah/Patterico POV, no?
"And I do think that some Republipundits view things this way: Either you agree with us
and you are a Good Conservative Republican , or you don't and you are a Bad Liberal So-con or Bad Squish Libertarian. When the Conservatively Correct Republipundit opinion gets set, you
cannot simply be in error. No, when you disagree with the
Conservatively Correct Republipundit opinion, you're obviously *bad*, not just wrong,
and also, of course, not really a conservative Republican."
FIFY, whiny one. A fair representation of the Ace/Allah/Patterico POV, no?
Posted by: trfogey at July 04, 2009 09:41 PM (9zyH6)
342
>>>"she VERY CLEARLY states that she's leaving because she felt she could no longer perform her duties as governor. She also makes it very clear that she's not finished with public life."
Yes, but I also mentioned this. If she cannot perform her duties as governor under these conditions, the left can decide whether she performs her duties as president.
She mentioned the pecuniary cost of being governor, which could actually also happen as president (Clinton got sued; she could be pressured into appointing a special prosecutor against herself (as clinton was) and then have to pay to defend against that). Further, she also mentioned the distractions of the endless attacks -- that doesn't have to do with money. And obviously she'd face te same thing as pres., only x 3 or more.
Yes, but I also mentioned this. If she cannot perform her duties as governor under these conditions, the left can decide whether she performs her duties as president.
She mentioned the pecuniary cost of being governor, which could actually also happen as president (Clinton got sued; she could be pressured into appointing a special prosecutor against herself (as clinton was) and then have to pay to defend against that). Further, she also mentioned the distractions of the endless attacks -- that doesn't have to do with money. And obviously she'd face te same thing as pres., only x 3 or more.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:43 PM (gEsIJ)
343
do you really find them to be all that squooshtogetherable Mr. fogey? I think there are real differences to be discerned.
Posted by: happyfeet at July 04, 2009 09:43 PM (qMJ7e)
344
trfogey,
Whatever. I guess we're in a contest to determine who's the more gung-ho doctrinaire hardcore nutcase conservatve nutrootser?
I guess you win, because the simple fact you're even interested in claiming such a title proves you deserve it.
By the way, all your Purity of Essence doesn't change the actual facts. You, like many other nutjobs of the right, think if you just have enough Purity of Essence you can achieve Peace on Earth.
POE, POE. OPE.
Whatever. I guess we're in a contest to determine who's the more gung-ho doctrinaire hardcore nutcase conservatve nutrootser?
I guess you win, because the simple fact you're even interested in claiming such a title proves you deserve it.
By the way, all your Purity of Essence doesn't change the actual facts. You, like many other nutjobs of the right, think if you just have enough Purity of Essence you can achieve Peace on Earth.
POE, POE. OPE.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:47 PM (gEsIJ)
345
Hm. Okay. You saying that she should expect and take these attacks is not the same as me saying you saying she should expect and take these attacks. Got it.
I just wanted to be clear.
I just wanted to be clear.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 09:48 PM (Yi1WZ)
346
But as governor, she did not have the infrasctructure nor mechanisms TO take it and respond effectively.
This is not about her fortitude. This is about her seeing the trap the left laid out for her to make her an ineffective and contained politician...and she did an end run around them.
Now she will be free to be a lot more politically active, she can raise money, she can be more visible, she can campaign with and for conservative candidates in the lower 48...
And by resigning, she's ensuring Parnell will be in a strong position for the Governor's election. He wouldn't be running on what would be by then tattered coat tails. He's running as an incumbent. Palin's ensured that the things she did for Alaska actually do come to fruition.
As governor of a distant state, we'd only see her as she responds to suckerpunches from leftists in the lower 48. And she'd never gain anything accomplished because her time and money would be dedicated to responding to the slew of baseless ethics charges.
Now she's free to be a lot more proactive. Look at the rapid response from her legal counsel regarding the supposed "iceberg." They're willing to take on MSNBC, HuffPost the New York Times, DKos...and anyone else who continues to spread actionable lies.
This is not the response of a quitter. This is the response of someone taking the fight to the enemy.
This is not about her fortitude. This is about her seeing the trap the left laid out for her to make her an ineffective and contained politician...and she did an end run around them.
Now she will be free to be a lot more politically active, she can raise money, she can be more visible, she can campaign with and for conservative candidates in the lower 48...
And by resigning, she's ensuring Parnell will be in a strong position for the Governor's election. He wouldn't be running on what would be by then tattered coat tails. He's running as an incumbent. Palin's ensured that the things she did for Alaska actually do come to fruition.
As governor of a distant state, we'd only see her as she responds to suckerpunches from leftists in the lower 48. And she'd never gain anything accomplished because her time and money would be dedicated to responding to the slew of baseless ethics charges.
Now she's free to be a lot more proactive. Look at the rapid response from her legal counsel regarding the supposed "iceberg." They're willing to take on MSNBC, HuffPost the New York Times, DKos...and anyone else who continues to spread actionable lies.
This is not the response of a quitter. This is the response of someone taking the fight to the enemy.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 04, 2009 09:48 PM (JPEqm)
347
Ace,
Might I ask, without getting my head bit off....are you an only child? Just curious.....ex psych major.
Might I ask, without getting my head bit off....are you an only child? Just curious.....ex psych major.
Posted by: Ad rem at July 04, 2009 09:49 PM (QVuEf)
348
>>>You saying that she should expect and take these attacks is not the same as me saying you saying she should expect and take these attacks. Got it.
No, she has an alternative -- resignation. Which she's proven she can do.
I don't know, Andrea, can you posit some other course of action? Either take it or resign.
I don't have any idea what you are suggesting as Option C. Option C... use the power of the presidency to intimidate her opponents?
Seems dangerous... but Barack Obama will show us if it's good practice, I guess.
No, she has an alternative -- resignation. Which she's proven she can do.
I don't know, Andrea, can you posit some other course of action? Either take it or resign.
I don't have any idea what you are suggesting as Option C. Option C... use the power of the presidency to intimidate her opponents?
Seems dangerous... but Barack Obama will show us if it's good practice, I guess.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:50 PM (gEsIJ)
349
Yes, but I also mentioned this. If she cannot perform her duties as
governor under these conditions, the left can decide whether she
performs her duties as president.
Sorry Ace...but that's not really a fair conclusion to draw.
The President of the United States has a few more resources than a middle class governor to respond to attacks.
governor under these conditions, the left can decide whether she
performs her duties as president.
Sorry Ace...but that's not really a fair conclusion to draw.
The President of the United States has a few more resources than a middle class governor to respond to attacks.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 04, 2009 09:52 PM (JPEqm)
350
Mary Beth,
It is the response of the quitter, in as much as she quit.
Look, spin only goes so far. She resigned. That quote of hers -- we're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction -- was a bit of a joke, as the general who said that (not MacArthur, I'm told) was in fact retreating.
You can spin a retreat with a cute phrase, but it's still a retreat. And she's still quitting.
It is the response of the quitter, in as much as she quit.
Look, spin only goes so far. She resigned. That quote of hers -- we're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction -- was a bit of a joke, as the general who said that (not MacArthur, I'm told) was in fact retreating.
You can spin a retreat with a cute phrase, but it's still a retreat. And she's still quitting.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:52 PM (gEsIJ)
351
>>>The President of the United States has a few more resources than a middle class governor to respond to attacks.
Name them. You and Andrea and others keep asserting and/or suggesting the president has additional powers to shut up the media and critics.
Please, tell me what these are.
Name them. You and Andrea and others keep asserting and/or suggesting the president has additional powers to shut up the media and critics.
Please, tell me what these are.
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 09:53 PM (gEsIJ)
352
also she's a lot asserting that the conventional expectations one might have of a governor don't apply to her and what other expectations are we going to come to find don't apply to her? I don't trust her anymores.
Posted by: happyfeet at July 04, 2009 09:55 PM (qMJ7e)
353
"and I'm not merely heretical, but excummunicated. "
Lol Ace, she is qualified, the last presidential election is the precedent. A bag of rocks issmarter andinfinately morehonest than Obama or any of his ilk. George Bush was not a great speaker, got Cs in college and won. Presidents are mere human beings imperfect and flawed.
Lol Ace, she is qualified, the last presidential election is the precedent. A bag of rocks issmarter andinfinately morehonest than Obama or any of his ilk. George Bush was not a great speaker, got Cs in college and won. Presidents are mere human beings imperfect and flawed.
Posted by: Africanus at July 04, 2009 09:56 PM (/Gtph)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 09:59 PM (fpywm)
355
>> The President of the United States has a few more resources than a middle class governor to respond to attacks.
There are a few pesky laws and rules, don't I know it?
There are a few pesky laws and rules, don't I know it?
Posted by: Big Dick Nixon at July 04, 2009 10:03 PM (eiOZw)
356
The way I see it, happyfeet, when it comes to being with the base or with the punditocracy, they are quite "squooshtogetherable", as you put it. Think back to "I hope he fails" and tell me the same cast of characters weren't whining about being misunderstood by us Neanderthals in the base that thought we ought to stand with one of ours who was being vilified by the Axeltrolls and the Beltway punditocracy.
Somewhere and sometime, you have to draw a line in the sand and say "no further". I'm waiting for the three aforementioned blogstars to do so. From what I've seen, if drawing that line means criticizing the country-club Republicans -- the ones who have the neat cocktail parties and the inside track to bloggers' row at places like CPAC -- they aren't willing to be on the other side of the line.
Somewhere and sometime, you have to draw a line in the sand and say "no further". I'm waiting for the three aforementioned blogstars to do so. From what I've seen, if drawing that line means criticizing the country-club Republicans -- the ones who have the neat cocktail parties and the inside track to bloggers' row at places like CPAC -- they aren't willing to be on the other side of the line.
Posted by: trfogey at July 04, 2009 10:03 PM (9zyH6)
357
I just want to go back to living in a normal little country and Sarah Palin, she's welcome to submit a bid on that but honestly I'm not sure she's really the one for the job.
Posted by: happyfeet at July 04, 2009 10:03 PM (qMJ7e)
358
I know you're determined to focus only the most negative possible translation of what she said... but how about when she said, she chooses to fight? How about her basketball analogy? She knows by taking herself off of that playing field she ensures the victory for her plans for Alaska...or at least does her best to cement success.
I find it sad though that given all the crap she's let slide off her back...the fortitude she's shown...that people automatically assume that resigning equals quitting. She's not a quitter. How weak-kneed are some of you folks anyway?
She's changed her strategy to make sure she's not a sitting duck in Alaska. She's now playing the game on her terms.
I wondered too at first if she had been beaten to submission but then I realized who I was talking about and that there's nothing in her history to suggest that she's one to back down from a bully. Kind of like what happened with the Board she left when they were trying to get her to play ball with the good ol' boys. She swooped in later as Governor and cleaned house.
Listen to her with John Ziegler where he asks her if it's worth it. This is not a quitter:
http://bit.ly/sKOf0
I get you're cynical. I am too, truth be known having been burned by people I believed in. But sometimes things should be taken at face value and I'm willing to give Palin the benefit of the doubt.
I find it sad though that given all the crap she's let slide off her back...the fortitude she's shown...that people automatically assume that resigning equals quitting. She's not a quitter. How weak-kneed are some of you folks anyway?
She's changed her strategy to make sure she's not a sitting duck in Alaska. She's now playing the game on her terms.
I wondered too at first if she had been beaten to submission but then I realized who I was talking about and that there's nothing in her history to suggest that she's one to back down from a bully. Kind of like what happened with the Board she left when they were trying to get her to play ball with the good ol' boys. She swooped in later as Governor and cleaned house.
Listen to her with John Ziegler where he asks her if it's worth it. This is not a quitter:
http://bit.ly/sKOf0
I get you're cynical. I am too, truth be known having been burned by people I believed in. But sometimes things should be taken at face value and I'm willing to give Palin the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 04, 2009 10:05 PM (JPEqm)
359
Ace, you're wasting your time. Palinmaniacs. Obamaniacs. Neither breed wants to have their mellow harshed, man. Pointless to argue. Now, it's time for my annual call to England, where I rub our independence in the face of some limey cocksucker.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 04, 2009 10:07 PM (4Ql64)
360
You can't pin down the POTUS with frivolous law suits.
You can't bankrupt the POTUS that way either.
Quitting a job does not make you a "quitter". I did it to get out of a job that would take me nowhere (and for other reasons). Now, after changing course, I have a much better job with much better potential.
I get your point, ace, that giving up the G of AK job is a big loss, but I submit the long term payoff will be worth it.
Why are you a blogger? Why aren't you practicing Law? Should we call you a quitter because you are doing something unexpected?
Palin has not yet made this move work, but it is way too early to know what will happen, and I have faith in her.
You can't bankrupt the POTUS that way either.
Quitting a job does not make you a "quitter". I did it to get out of a job that would take me nowhere (and for other reasons). Now, after changing course, I have a much better job with much better potential.
I get your point, ace, that giving up the G of AK job is a big loss, but I submit the long term payoff will be worth it.
Why are you a blogger? Why aren't you practicing Law? Should we call you a quitter because you are doing something unexpected?
Palin has not yet made this move work, but it is way too early to know what will happen, and I have faith in her.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 10:08 PM (fpywm)
361
I am very weak-kneed. Tim Pawlenty is looking just about my speed right now. Pawlenty/Don't Surprise Me would be a 2012 ticket I could really really get enthusiastic about.
Posted by: happyfeet at July 04, 2009 10:08 PM (qMJ7e)
362
I'm really tired of the assumption that if someone supports someone they are considered a "maniac".
It's a term used to isolate and freeze out the opinions of those categorized thusly.
Am I now also a Pencemaniac? I really love his policies and his brutal
defense of liberty. What about Boehnermanic? He was great last week
as he fought tooth and nail against Tax and Kill.
I don't WORSHIP Palin or any other political figure. I put my faith in God and my support in the founding principles of this country.
That's right. Principles. Standards. The rule of law.
If and when other figures come to the fore to stand for the things I believe in, then I'll support them too.
But not blindly.
It's a term used to isolate and freeze out the opinions of those categorized thusly.
Am I now also a Pencemaniac? I really love his policies and his brutal
defense of liberty. What about Boehnermanic? He was great last week
as he fought tooth and nail against Tax and Kill.
I don't WORSHIP Palin or any other political figure. I put my faith in God and my support in the founding principles of this country.
That's right. Principles. Standards. The rule of law.
If and when other figures come to the fore to stand for the things I believe in, then I'll support them too.
But not blindly.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 04, 2009 10:18 PM (JPEqm)
363
"You and Andrea and others keep asserting and/or suggesting the president has additional powers to shut up the media and critics."
I never said any such thing, Ace. I am beginning to think that the communication problem is not on my end. Okay, let me start over. I'll use smaller words, or try to. Here we go:
There is nothing wrong with legitimate criticism against a governor of a state or nation. What is wrong is attacking that governor by 1) abusing a legal procedure to tie up that governor's finances and time, and 2) attacking that governor's family simply because they are related to that governor. And replace "governor" with "president," it is equally true.
Now, to return to the very top sentence where you say I am somehow advocating that the president should have power to stop that. That is not what I said. I'm not sure where you got that from. What I am saying is that we should expect normal behavior from critics of our leaders -- and by normal behavior I mean "not drowning them in petty bullshit lawsuits and not going after their families just because you" (not you, ace, but say, the people attacking Palin and her family) "don't like them." And when we get crazy-ass monkey behavior instead, we (that's we, the normal people, who are not crazy-ass monkeys) should not accept it.
Now how we (the people, the not-presidents that is, who are normal not crazy-ass monkeys) are to do this I don't know. Maybe we could use this invention I've heard of, called the... what is it, oh yeah, the INTERNET -- to do it somehow. It could be a start anyway.
I never said any such thing, Ace. I am beginning to think that the communication problem is not on my end. Okay, let me start over. I'll use smaller words, or try to. Here we go:
There is nothing wrong with legitimate criticism against a governor of a state or nation. What is wrong is attacking that governor by 1) abusing a legal procedure to tie up that governor's finances and time, and 2) attacking that governor's family simply because they are related to that governor. And replace "governor" with "president," it is equally true.
Now, to return to the very top sentence where you say I am somehow advocating that the president should have power to stop that. That is not what I said. I'm not sure where you got that from. What I am saying is that we should expect normal behavior from critics of our leaders -- and by normal behavior I mean "not drowning them in petty bullshit lawsuits and not going after their families just because you" (not you, ace, but say, the people attacking Palin and her family) "don't like them." And when we get crazy-ass monkey behavior instead, we (that's we, the normal people, who are not crazy-ass monkeys) should not accept it.
Now how we (the people, the not-presidents that is, who are normal not crazy-ass monkeys) are to do this I don't know. Maybe we could use this invention I've heard of, called the... what is it, oh yeah, the INTERNET -- to do it somehow. It could be a start anyway.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 10:18 PM (Yi1WZ)
364
It's obvious that even the leftwing media has figured out Palin's
intentions and they're scared; that's why they created the meme and
began the attack.
Some on the right, however, are falling for the leftwing media's disinformation campaign hook, line, and sinker.
Palin is coming after Obama and the Democrats, and the media/Democrats are scared. Why is that so hard to understand?
It's obvious that even the leftwing media has figured out Palin's
intentions and they're scared; that's why they created the meme and
began the attack.
Some on the right, however, are falling for the leftwing media's disinformation campaign hook, line, and sinker.
Palin is coming after Obama and the Democrats, and the media/Democrats are scared. Why is that so hard to understand?
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 04, 2009 10:23 PM (UU3J6)
365
When you take the statement that someone is resigning and extrapolate from that a presidential run, brushing aside the extreme unlikelihood of a private citizen attaining the presidency, and compound it with browbeating those who don't share your fanciful views, then YES - that qualifies as mania. Wishing will not make it so.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 04, 2009 10:27 PM (4Ql64)
366
I'll boil it down even further.
Forget the speculation about Palin running in '12. She's resigning so she can speak truth to power. Palin, like us, is a conservative American who is deeply concerned for the future of her country. She knows she can draw a crowd and she's willing to sacrifice herself to the jackals in the media in order to make a difference.
That's it. And it's not some pie in the sky dream I'm having; that's what this is all about. Why? Shut up, that's why.
Seriously, because if I'm wrong that means the leftwing was right and she's a fool and a bimbo. When's the last time the leftwing was right about anything, especially about the character and intentions of a conservative? Q.E.D.
I'll boil it down even further.
Forget the speculation about Palin running in '12. She's resigning so she can speak truth to power. Palin, like us, is a conservative American who is deeply concerned for the future of her country. She knows she can draw a crowd and she's willing to sacrifice herself to the jackals in the media in order to make a difference.
That's it. And it's not some pie in the sky dream I'm having; that's what this is all about. Why? Shut up, that's why.
Seriously, because if I'm wrong that means the leftwing was right and she's a fool and a bimbo. When's the last time the leftwing was right about anything, especially about the character and intentions of a conservative? Q.E.D.
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 04, 2009 10:31 PM (UU3J6)
367
One thing I do know is that Sarah Palin never called me names. Go ahead, Ace take the week off go stroke your bruised ego.
Posted by: West at July 04, 2009 10:34 PM (Rupsw)
368
"...brushing aside the extreme unlikelihood of a private citizen attaining the presidency..."
Posted by: Empire of Jeff
Um, like Mitt, Rudy, Newt?
Nixon? Ike?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff
Um, like Mitt, Rudy, Newt?
Nixon? Ike?
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 10:34 PM (fpywm)
369
>> Now how we (the people, the not-presidents that is, who are normal not crazy-ass monkeys) are to do this I don't know.
No one else knows either. And while I agree it's deplorable, and wrong, and other noble sounding sentiments if you give me a minute or two to think of some, I'll bet you a paycheck they won't stopdoggin Sarah. Why, I'll bet you two paychecks that even though she isn't going to bein public office in a few weeks and even if she declares no intention whatsoever to run for any public office, thenasty attackscontinue nonstop.
But I will "expect" better behavior from them. And use all the powers of the internets to disuade them from their reprehensible conduct.
If only Sarah had factored this into her decision. If only.
The left has learned that this shit works. And I hate it, but there you go. It does.
No one else knows either. And while I agree it's deplorable, and wrong, and other noble sounding sentiments if you give me a minute or two to think of some, I'll bet you a paycheck they won't stopdoggin Sarah. Why, I'll bet you two paychecks that even though she isn't going to bein public office in a few weeks and even if she declares no intention whatsoever to run for any public office, thenasty attackscontinue nonstop.
But I will "expect" better behavior from them. And use all the powers of the internets to disuade them from their reprehensible conduct.
If only Sarah had factored this into her decision. If only.
The left has learned that this shit works. And I hate it, but there you go. It does.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 04, 2009 10:37 PM (eiOZw)
370
"When's the last time the leftwing was right about anything, especially about the character and intentions of a conservative?"
As many times as you are wrong, Tweets? ff
As many times as you are wrong, Tweets? ff
Posted by: me at July 04, 2009 10:39 PM (7/syK)
371
I don't think she's going to run for president in 2012. But if she does I'll vote for her. Still, I don't think she'll do it. Why would she? Apparently we the people have decided to accept that things like this are legitimate expressions of political expression for anyone who dares even think of touching the hem of the holy presidential garment:
http://tr.im/qQ1i
Perhaps in the future anyone deciding to run for president should be required to disembowel one of their children in ritual sacrifice. You know, just to make sure they're serious in their ambition and dedication.
http://tr.im/qQ1i
Perhaps in the future anyone deciding to run for president should be required to disembowel one of their children in ritual sacrifice. You know, just to make sure they're serious in their ambition and dedication.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 10:39 PM (Yi1WZ)
372
there's just way too much emoting. ick.
Posted by: happyfeet at July 04, 2009 10:40 PM (qMJ7e)
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 04, 2009 10:41 PM (UU3J6)
374
I'm a maniac for believing Palin has a better chance as a citizen that's free to travel coast to coast, fundraise, give speeches, campaign for those running in 2010 and otherwise be a real powerhouse for conservatism than she would have as a beleaguered governor shackled to a position she could no longer be effective in?
Really?
Really?
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 04, 2009 10:42 PM (JPEqm)
375
" should be required to disembowel one of their children in ritual sacrifice."
Can we practice on somebody here first?
Can we practice on somebody here first?
Posted by: me at July 04, 2009 10:43 PM (7/syK)
376
What makes anyone think that Palin doesn't know about the soft under-belly attack points of friend or foe? Does anyone really think she only got advice about shoes?
God I love wimmins.
God I love wimmins.
Posted by: Westerner at July 04, 2009 10:46 PM (VxSn2)
377
Ace,
For the record, I don't think you're a RINO. An ewok, perhaps, but not a RINO. That said, and before you go on vacation, these deserve further addressing:
ace at July 04, 2009 06:18 PM:
Perhaps this has been answered, but why couldn't she open a legal defense fund (which would be filled in two days) or seek to tighten the requirements for filing an ethics complaint -- including a penalty for abuse of process? Those are some moves. Can you tell me why they were not open to her?
This is exactly why some of us are ticked at you and are expressing frustration. This was answered in very explicit terms multiple times. You ignored or glossed over it somehow in the other threads yesterday. (The volume was high but in view of the import of what was being said, skipping posts is not an acceptable answer.) In fact you even commented on the topic quite some time ago in "Lefties Attempting to Bankrupt Palin Family Through Filing Never-Ending Deluge of Frivolous Complaints" (Ace at March 25, 2009 02:37 PM) so you were aware of the tactic, and many others, ol_dirty_/b/tard especially, posted comments multiple times in June (with links and everything) about the existence of the defense fund. So, you were derelict. Conservatives4Palin, the source of essentially secondary if not primary source material for all things Palin, has a big, fat link on the top/left margin for the legal defense fund and has for many weeks. As much as you traffic off Palin, did you not ever have reason to visit this rather primary source in the past few months? You cannot claim The Moron Defense.
ace at July 04, 2009 06:26 PM:
Then that is both my bad as a blogger and her bad for not alerting us bloggers to that fact.
But mostly your bad for not doing due diligence in research in this case and for ignoring the existence of the fund (it seemed like you had a blind spot) and its shortcomings which was pointed out to you in the other threads.
I do not think it is unreasonable to think that if every rightwing blog linked her fund for two weeks she could raise 500,000.
So in view of this "new" information, how about making an exclusive post for just this purpose, namely to help Palin get out from under her legal debt as quickly as possible? Make some lemonade out of your lemon. Here's the link: The Alaska Fund Trust.
Also, before you go on vacation, could you comment on Palin's leaving due to, besides the other reasons stated, the economic burden she and her family experienced? And the fact that the burden would only continue as new, frivolous suits came up (15 and counting, some apparently think, is a walk in the park and should be sloughed off even though they are self-evidently upper-middle class at best)? That the timesink of one legal burden is pretty goddamn trying without the shell of government acting as protector and providing relief gratis much less 15+? That the mere act of requesting aid was drawing yet more legal protest from those dedicated hacks specifically operating to smear her?
This is essential to understanding her rather unique plight. Should anyone discard these not so subtle facts, then that person is utterly discredited and unworthy of audience.
I'd really like to hear any new view you might have considering this even to the exclusion of other arguments that Palin might offer. Surely it matters.
For the record, I don't think you're a RINO. An ewok, perhaps, but not a RINO. That said, and before you go on vacation, these deserve further addressing:
ace at July 04, 2009 06:18 PM:
Perhaps this has been answered, but why couldn't she open a legal defense fund (which would be filled in two days) or seek to tighten the requirements for filing an ethics complaint -- including a penalty for abuse of process? Those are some moves. Can you tell me why they were not open to her?
This is exactly why some of us are ticked at you and are expressing frustration. This was answered in very explicit terms multiple times. You ignored or glossed over it somehow in the other threads yesterday. (The volume was high but in view of the import of what was being said, skipping posts is not an acceptable answer.) In fact you even commented on the topic quite some time ago in "Lefties Attempting to Bankrupt Palin Family Through Filing Never-Ending Deluge of Frivolous Complaints" (Ace at March 25, 2009 02:37 PM) so you were aware of the tactic, and many others, ol_dirty_/b/tard especially, posted comments multiple times in June (with links and everything) about the existence of the defense fund. So, you were derelict. Conservatives4Palin, the source of essentially secondary if not primary source material for all things Palin, has a big, fat link on the top/left margin for the legal defense fund and has for many weeks. As much as you traffic off Palin, did you not ever have reason to visit this rather primary source in the past few months? You cannot claim The Moron Defense.
ace at July 04, 2009 06:26 PM:
Then that is both my bad as a blogger and her bad for not alerting us bloggers to that fact.
But mostly your bad for not doing due diligence in research in this case and for ignoring the existence of the fund (it seemed like you had a blind spot) and its shortcomings which was pointed out to you in the other threads.
I do not think it is unreasonable to think that if every rightwing blog linked her fund for two weeks she could raise 500,000.
So in view of this "new" information, how about making an exclusive post for just this purpose, namely to help Palin get out from under her legal debt as quickly as possible? Make some lemonade out of your lemon. Here's the link: The Alaska Fund Trust.
Also, before you go on vacation, could you comment on Palin's leaving due to, besides the other reasons stated, the economic burden she and her family experienced? And the fact that the burden would only continue as new, frivolous suits came up (15 and counting, some apparently think, is a walk in the park and should be sloughed off even though they are self-evidently upper-middle class at best)? That the timesink of one legal burden is pretty goddamn trying without the shell of government acting as protector and providing relief gratis much less 15+? That the mere act of requesting aid was drawing yet more legal protest from those dedicated hacks specifically operating to smear her?
This is essential to understanding her rather unique plight. Should anyone discard these not so subtle facts, then that person is utterly discredited and unworthy of audience.
I'd really like to hear any new view you might have considering this even to the exclusion of other arguments that Palin might offer. Surely it matters.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 04, 2009 10:47 PM (rZ235)
378
Seven years after 9/11 an empty-suit academic with a shady past, close ties to anti-American leftist terrorists, the middle name Hussein, and no executive or private sector experience was elected president of the the United States.
And we should disqualify a person for resigning a governorship while not under a cloud of scandal?
Seven years after 9/11 an empty-suit academic with a shady past, close ties to anti-American leftist terrorists, the middle name Hussein, and no executive or private sector experience was elected president of the the United States.
And we should disqualify a person for resigning a governorship while not under a cloud of scandal?
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 04, 2009 10:47 PM (UU3J6)
379
Dave I never said it would stop. You can keep your paycheck. And don't say anything on the internet if you don't want to. It's best not to draw attention to yourself these days. Maybe you should drop the "in Texas" part of your name too. Isn't Texas one of those bad, conservative places? Well, I guess you can tell people you're from Austin. Just don't let people know you're not from anyplace that's not cool. I'm planning on telling everyone (online, that is) that I've actually moved to Seattle, not Virginia, and that I'm opening a fair-trade, sustainable coffee shop with cups made out of hemp. Do you think it will keep them off me when they come to round up people for the camps?
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 10:49 PM (Yi1WZ)
380
But, but, but, Maureen Dowd says Palin's nuts ...and what better source of nuttiness is there than Dowd? ff
Posted by: me at July 04, 2009 10:54 PM (7/syK)
381
Birth Certificate Trutherism
I don't understand why a constitutional requirement for office is being poopooed as trutherism....
I don't understand why a constitutional requirement for office is being poopooed as trutherism....
Posted by: KG at July 04, 2009 10:55 PM (EHImH)
382
I don't understand why a constitutional requirement for office is being poopooed as trutherism....
The same reason illegal immigration, gay marriage, social security reform, nuclear power, voter ID, and domestic oil drilling are all third-rail issues: the Democrats make the rules...
and we, for some unknown reason, labide by them even more closely than the Democrats.
I don't understand why a constitutional requirement for office is being poopooed as trutherism....
The same reason illegal immigration, gay marriage, social security reform, nuclear power, voter ID, and domestic oil drilling are all third-rail issues: the Democrats make the rules...
and we, for some unknown reason, labide by them even more closely than the Democrats.
Posted by: Unicle Hussein tweets at July 04, 2009 11:00 PM (UU3J6)
383
>> Do you think it will keep them off me when they come to round up people for the camps?
Only if they never saw us exchange comments. Otherwise we fight over the same bowl of gruel in the morning.
Only if they never saw us exchange comments. Otherwise we fight over the same bowl of gruel in the morning.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 04, 2009 11:03 PM (eiOZw)
384
"labide"? Interesting typo, BaUnitweet
Posted by: me at July 04, 2009 11:03 PM (7/syK)
385
Gruel! They have gruel at the camps? You are so ON. That gruel is MINE.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 11:05 PM (Yi1WZ)
Posted by: Unicle Hussein tweets at July 04, 2009 11:09 PM (UU3J6)
387
ace,
Not everybody that disagrees with you on this issue is a nutrootser. Hell, I voted for Jerry Ford over Ronaldus Maximus in the primary season of 76 and G.H.W. Bush over Reagan in the primary season of 80. I'm just tired of watching good people getting torn to pieces by the leftists in the MSM, with sneering help from the self-anointed "conservative"-- read Reagan-era has-been -- punditocracy.
The way I see it, if you want to claim to be a Republican pundit, then Reagan's Eleventh Commandment is your Golden Rule. Especially in the period between elections. If you want to dig a Republican's grave out of season, you're nothing but an opportunistic ghoul whoring for a few hits.
When the primary season rolls around, it's a different ballgame. But the idea is to choose the strongest candidate without scorching the earth in case your guy comes out on the short end. That means no pouting and no "sitting home" or third-party fliers for the sake of protest. Finally, if you jump ship publicly to support somebody from the other side like Obama, you should be as dead to the party as Fredo was to Michael -- regardless of what you did for the party in the past. You want to hold a politician to the "what have you done for me lately?" standard -- live it yourself and walk the walk.
If Sarah Palin decides to run for public office again, there'll be plenty of time and space for the kind of breathless analytical stuff you've been posting the last couple of days. In the meantime, how about just acknowledging what she's given for the sake of the party and wish her well in her retirement. If you're not a resident of the state of Alaska, she doesn't owe you a damn thing anyway.
Not everybody that disagrees with you on this issue is a nutrootser. Hell, I voted for Jerry Ford over Ronaldus Maximus in the primary season of 76 and G.H.W. Bush over Reagan in the primary season of 80. I'm just tired of watching good people getting torn to pieces by the leftists in the MSM, with sneering help from the self-anointed "conservative"-- read Reagan-era has-been -- punditocracy.
The way I see it, if you want to claim to be a Republican pundit, then Reagan's Eleventh Commandment is your Golden Rule. Especially in the period between elections. If you want to dig a Republican's grave out of season, you're nothing but an opportunistic ghoul whoring for a few hits.
When the primary season rolls around, it's a different ballgame. But the idea is to choose the strongest candidate without scorching the earth in case your guy comes out on the short end. That means no pouting and no "sitting home" or third-party fliers for the sake of protest. Finally, if you jump ship publicly to support somebody from the other side like Obama, you should be as dead to the party as Fredo was to Michael -- regardless of what you did for the party in the past. You want to hold a politician to the "what have you done for me lately?" standard -- live it yourself and walk the walk.
If Sarah Palin decides to run for public office again, there'll be plenty of time and space for the kind of breathless analytical stuff you've been posting the last couple of days. In the meantime, how about just acknowledging what she's given for the sake of the party and wish her well in her retirement. If you're not a resident of the state of Alaska, she doesn't owe you a damn thing anyway.
Posted by: trfogey at July 04, 2009 11:14 PM (9zyH6)
388
" If you want to dig a Republican's grave out of season, you're nothing but an opportunistic ghoul whoring for a few hits."
heh
"If you're not a resident of the state of Alaska, she doesn't owe you a damn thing anyway. "
exactly.
heh
"If you're not a resident of the state of Alaska, she doesn't owe you a damn thing anyway. "
exactly.
Posted by: me at July 04, 2009 11:18 PM (7/syK)
389
>> They have gruel at the camps?
I will wrassel you for the roach parts.
I will wrassel you for the roach parts.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 04, 2009 11:22 PM (eiOZw)
390
well put, trfogey
Last year, we got many anti-Huckabee posts. I'm not a supporter of Huckabee's but I was sick of seeing the negative attacks on Huckabee because they were worse than unproductive -- they dragged down the entire GOP.
I politely requested several times that instead of making anti-Huckabee posts, let's post positve stuff about the candidates we do like. No such luck, though.
While we were bashing Huckabee, Hillary and Obama were carrying the other side like rockstars.
well put, trfogey
Last year, we got many anti-Huckabee posts. I'm not a supporter of Huckabee's but I was sick of seeing the negative attacks on Huckabee because they were worse than unproductive -- they dragged down the entire GOP.
I politely requested several times that instead of making anti-Huckabee posts, let's post positve stuff about the candidates we do like. No such luck, though.
While we were bashing Huckabee, Hillary and Obama were carrying the other side like rockstars.
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 04, 2009 11:22 PM (UU3J6)
391
oh, and you'd be hard pressed to find any negative Mike Gravel blog entries by moonbat/leftist/democrats bloggers
again, the Democrats make the rules and set the standards for the Republicans
oh, and you'd be hard pressed to find any negative Mike Gravel blog entries by moonbat/leftist/democrats bloggers
again, the Democrats make the rules and set the standards for the Republicans
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 04, 2009 11:28 PM (UU3J6)
392
mmm. Roach parts. Crunchy.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 04, 2009 11:34 PM (Yi1WZ)
393
The latest meme is the loser and career ender BS. This was said
about Nixon after he lost his bid for governor of California and about
Reagan after he lost in 1972 and 1976 GOP conventions. Newsweek and
Times wrote long articles writting off Reagan. This is the usual RINO,
dhimmirat tacic of dealing with opponents that they see as a real
threat.Posted by: Thomas Jackson at July 04, 2009 04:02 PM (B8gqF)
Reagan didn't run for President in '72. Nixon was easily renominated.
I really wish you guys would stop with the Nixon in '62 comparison. A lot of politicians have lost races and come back to win again later.
Palin quit in the middle of her first term. That's not the same. Please show me the politician who has quit in the middle of their elected term (not decided not not to run but QUIT) and then won the presidency next time out.
Oh wait, 200+ years of history doesn't matter. It's Sarah Palin we are talking about. None of the rules apply to her, I forgot.
The latest meme is the loser and career ender BS. This was said
about Nixon after he lost his bid for governor of California and about
Reagan after he lost in 1972 and 1976 GOP conventions. Newsweek and
Times wrote long articles writting off Reagan. This is the usual RINO,
dhimmirat tacic of dealing with opponents that they see as a real
threat.Posted by: Thomas Jackson at July 04, 2009 04:02 PM (B8gqF)
Reagan didn't run for President in '72. Nixon was easily renominated.
I really wish you guys would stop with the Nixon in '62 comparison. A lot of politicians have lost races and come back to win again later.
Palin quit in the middle of her first term. That's not the same. Please show me the politician who has quit in the middle of their elected term (not decided not not to run but QUIT) and then won the presidency next time out.
Oh wait, 200+ years of history doesn't matter. It's Sarah Palin we are talking about. None of the rules apply to her, I forgot.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 04, 2009 11:39 PM (iTt2X)
394
>> mmm. Roach parts. Crunchy.
More energy ounce for ounce than toffee*. Ghiradelli don't know the secret.
* I could be totally making shit up now.
More energy ounce for ounce than toffee*. Ghiradelli don't know the secret.
* I could be totally making shit up now.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 04, 2009 11:44 PM (eiOZw)
395
Gee, DrewM, that word quit really has its claws dug into you.
I hope Sarah Palin does some things that will pry it out.
I hope Sarah Palin does some things that will pry it out.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 11:45 PM (fpywm)
396
Tweets - you're right, the left sets the rules. The left circles the wagons to protect their own from outside criticism. The right feeds raw meat to the wolves and wonders why they lose elections.
Posted by: me at July 04, 2009 11:46 PM (7/syK)
397
Ace,
I don't post much but I've been lurking here for years and I don't think you're a RINO, stupid, or crazy.
I was here when the first reports came out that Palin was resigning and no one knew why. A consensus quickly formed that she was quitting to protect her family from all the shit the Left was throwing at them. It was understandable and it made perfect sense.
But subsequent events cast doubt on that. She refused to confirm or deny that she was running for president. She gave a defiant speech where she promised to fight on, and made a point of noting that her children were on board with her decision. Her enemies began sharpening their knives.
You, however, still cling to the original conclusion. All of your arguments are premised on it. If she had to resign to protect her family while she was governor, how can she be president when the attacks on her family will be 100x worse?
I respectfully ask that you consider the possibility that the original conclusion was false, and she is *not* trying to protect her family. If you do you will see that those of us who disagree with you are not stupid, crazy, or engaged in "magical thinking," which sounds like a combination of stupid and crazy. We just have a difference of opinion.
I don't post much but I've been lurking here for years and I don't think you're a RINO, stupid, or crazy.
I was here when the first reports came out that Palin was resigning and no one knew why. A consensus quickly formed that she was quitting to protect her family from all the shit the Left was throwing at them. It was understandable and it made perfect sense.
But subsequent events cast doubt on that. She refused to confirm or deny that she was running for president. She gave a defiant speech where she promised to fight on, and made a point of noting that her children were on board with her decision. Her enemies began sharpening their knives.
You, however, still cling to the original conclusion. All of your arguments are premised on it. If she had to resign to protect her family while she was governor, how can she be president when the attacks on her family will be 100x worse?
I respectfully ask that you consider the possibility that the original conclusion was false, and she is *not* trying to protect her family. If you do you will see that those of us who disagree with you are not stupid, crazy, or engaged in "magical thinking," which sounds like a combination of stupid and crazy. We just have a difference of opinion.
Posted by: schizoid at July 04, 2009 11:46 PM (+d5Ab)
398
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 11:45 PM (fpywm)
Did she not quit the office of Governor of the State of Alaska? Did I misunderstand her?
I never said anything about quitting public life but I'm pretty sure she won't be drawing a pay check as Governor by the end of the month.
Perhaps there's an alternative definition of the word 'quit' I'm not familiar with.
Did she not quit the office of Governor of the State of Alaska? Did I misunderstand her?
I never said anything about quitting public life but I'm pretty sure she won't be drawing a pay check as Governor by the end of the month.
Perhaps there's an alternative definition of the word 'quit' I'm not familiar with.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 04, 2009 11:49 PM (iTt2X)
399
fwiw, I'm a Southern Baptist Bitter Clinger, and Ace is my favorite blogger. I don't expect Ace to be Sarah's Head Cheerleader, but I think he needs to spend less time listening to "Allahpundit".
*A candidate who doesn't inspire the conservative base is certain defeat for the GOP. Rush is right. David Frum is wrong.
*The idea that independent voters will have the same impression of Palin (and Obama) 4 yrs. from now is ridiculous.
*We've been complaining that the GOP has no "leader". Not anymore. Palin is going to be recognized as the party leader, and she'll get credit for 2010 success.
*After being the chief political rival to Obama for 2 yrs., the 2012 primaries will start with an army of Palin supporters ready to walk through fire to nominate her. Is anyone really going to say, "Sorry! She's disqualified for not finishing her term as Governor!" C'mon.
*A candidate who doesn't inspire the conservative base is certain defeat for the GOP. Rush is right. David Frum is wrong.
*The idea that independent voters will have the same impression of Palin (and Obama) 4 yrs. from now is ridiculous.
*We've been complaining that the GOP has no "leader". Not anymore. Palin is going to be recognized as the party leader, and she'll get credit for 2010 success.
*After being the chief political rival to Obama for 2 yrs., the 2012 primaries will start with an army of Palin supporters ready to walk through fire to nominate her. Is anyone really going to say, "Sorry! She's disqualified for not finishing her term as Governor!" C'mon.
Posted by: Mr. Wednesday Night at July 04, 2009 11:54 PM (FD3EH)
400
Well let me bring us all down to earth. This is from a Twitter account today about 7 hours ago. From DavidMasters on Twitter:
They killed my son, Aaron!about 7 hours ago from web
He was minding his own business BS-ing with an Officer on base in Afghanistan...about 7 hours ago from web
When a suicide bomber, driving a truck breached the perimiter and pushed the button...about 7 hours ago from web
Killing my son, Aaron and the Officer.about 7 hours ago from web
On Independence Day, a few hours ago, they killed my son, Aaron in Afghanistan.about 7 hours ago from web
I'm so sorry, Aaron... You are MY hero... I love you... #thankyouaaron18 minutes ago from web
Blue Skies and Fair winds Aaron.
They killed my son, Aaron!about 7 hours ago from web
He was minding his own business BS-ing with an Officer on base in Afghanistan...about 7 hours ago from web
When a suicide bomber, driving a truck breached the perimiter and pushed the button...about 7 hours ago from web
Killing my son, Aaron and the Officer.about 7 hours ago from web
On Independence Day, a few hours ago, they killed my son, Aaron in Afghanistan.about 7 hours ago from web
I'm so sorry, Aaron... You are MY hero... I love you... #thankyouaaron18 minutes ago from web
Blue Skies and Fair winds Aaron.
Posted by: TendStl at July 04, 2009 11:58 PM (E557J)
401
DrewM,
Der, she quit the office, but your posts don't stop there. You extend that act to mean she's cooked her own goose.
I argue that she quit with good reason and it was a choice forced upon her by relentless enemies. I further argue that her act has strengthened her ability to thwart her foes and pursue higher office.
You disagree. Fine. But, perhaps the word quit in this case is not quite what you make it out to be.
Der, she quit the office, but your posts don't stop there. You extend that act to mean she's cooked her own goose.
I argue that she quit with good reason and it was a choice forced upon her by relentless enemies. I further argue that her act has strengthened her ability to thwart her foes and pursue higher office.
You disagree. Fine. But, perhaps the word quit in this case is not quite what you make it out to be.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 11:59 PM (fpywm)
Posted by: eman at July 05, 2009 12:02 AM (fpywm)
403
Yeah, saw that tonight as well Tendstl. It's heartbreaking.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 05, 2009 12:07 AM (eiOZw)
404
Der, she quit the office, but your posts don't stop there. You extend that act to mean she's cooked her own goose.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 11:59 PM (fpywm)
People don't like quitters. People also aren't likely to bestow someone with another and higher public trust after that person bailed out on their last one. In fact, there's no record of it ever happening from governor to President.
2 years as Governor of Alaska was thin (but sufficient) gruel to run for VP.
2.5 years and then walking away isn't not sufficient for President.
The people who love Palin won't care.
A lot of people who might have supported her (like me) are going to be harder to get on board.
And most people (those who either were indifferent or didn't like her) are going to be almost impossible to win over after this.
The bad news for you is the last two categories are a lot bigger than the first.
Let me give you a taste of what we can look forward to should she run in '12...
<clip of Palin from '08> "I want to go to Washington with John McCain to fight for you"
<clip of Palin from '09> "I'm leaving the office of governor" (or whatever she said)
<visual of AK unemployment or revenue chart>
<announcer> Can you really count on Sarah Palin to be there and fighting for you when she abandoned the people of Alaska when times got tough?
<stock visual of Palin walking away and waiving>
<announcer> Sarah Palin...she can't be trusted to keep the faith and stand up when the going gets rough.
Now, the language will be cleaned up but there are consultants who have already cut that spot and it will be devastating.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2009 11:59 PM (fpywm)
People don't like quitters. People also aren't likely to bestow someone with another and higher public trust after that person bailed out on their last one. In fact, there's no record of it ever happening from governor to President.
2 years as Governor of Alaska was thin (but sufficient) gruel to run for VP.
2.5 years and then walking away isn't not sufficient for President.
The people who love Palin won't care.
A lot of people who might have supported her (like me) are going to be harder to get on board.
And most people (those who either were indifferent or didn't like her) are going to be almost impossible to win over after this.
The bad news for you is the last two categories are a lot bigger than the first.
Let me give you a taste of what we can look forward to should she run in '12...
<clip of Palin from '08> "I want to go to Washington with John McCain to fight for you"
<clip of Palin from '09> "I'm leaving the office of governor" (or whatever she said)
<visual of AK unemployment or revenue chart>
<announcer> Can you really count on Sarah Palin to be there and fighting for you when she abandoned the people of Alaska when times got tough?
<stock visual of Palin walking away and waiving>
<announcer> Sarah Palin...she can't be trusted to keep the faith and stand up when the going gets rough.
Now, the language will be cleaned up but there are consultants who have already cut that spot and it will be devastating.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:13 AM (iTt2X)
405
I rather quite like the cut of DrewM's jib. He can see past Palin's vulgar speech patterns and her lack of a proper education, not to mention her lack of a penis, but he also understands that a gap in her resume is the one thing up with which we must not put.
Posted by: schizoid at July 05, 2009 12:14 AM (+d5Ab)
406
Yeah, saw that tonight as well Tendstl. It's heartbreaking.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 05, 2009 12:07 AM (eiOZw)
I just imagined him at his KB typing about his son JUST being killed. I kinda jumped off my couch at the thought.
Yeah, saw that tonight as well Tendstl. It's heartbreaking.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 05, 2009 12:07 AM (eiOZw)
I just imagined him at his KB typing about his son JUST being killed. I kinda jumped off my couch at the thought.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:15 AM (E557J)
407
You're right. It would have been much better for Palin to have just stayed there like a good little punching bag...ignored and impotent, not able to do anything for her state or for the conservative movement.
Yeah. That would have made her a great contender in 2012.
Yeah. That would have made her a great contender in 2012.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 12:17 AM (JPEqm)
408
You know what though? That actually would have been quitting. Playing it safe. Going along to get along. Hunkering down and hoping that you're not sued into the ground.
Instead, Palin chose to fight. The deck was stacked against her if she played their game so she changed the rules.
Once conservatives start to get this, they'll understand why she referenced Seward's Folly.
This...my friends...is Palin's Folly.
Instead, Palin chose to fight. The deck was stacked against her if she played their game so she changed the rules.
Once conservatives start to get this, they'll understand why she referenced Seward's Folly.
This...my friends...is Palin's Folly.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 12:19 AM (JPEqm)
409
No kidding, DrewM, her enemies will try to exploit this.
Maybe she should fight back? You know, go on the offensive.
Hit them hard. Make them explain. Keep them off balance.
Good gravy, man. Palin wants to cut throats and drink blood.
You want to vote for Mitt's tie collection. (OK, that was mean.)
Maybe she should fight back? You know, go on the offensive.
Hit them hard. Make them explain. Keep them off balance.
Good gravy, man. Palin wants to cut throats and drink blood.
You want to vote for Mitt's tie collection. (OK, that was mean.)
Posted by: eman at July 05, 2009 12:27 AM (fpywm)
410
I guess from my perspective, I check the news, AP, CNN etc to see what the MSM leftist take is. You know, swallow the medicine first and then go to my conservative blogs to get OUR take on the situation. You know the one where we are supposed help our candidates out.
The meme that she is finished in politics is already out there, I don't need to read it ad nauseum from my favorite conservative blogs. I get it, it looks and smells as if she is finished.
I guess I go to my favorite blogs in hopes that they have done the research so I don't have to about some of the particulars. But since I really didn't read much I went and found it myself and formed my own decisions as to how she might survive this. I think we want OUR side to discuss HOW she will survive this, not just flat say "She is finished", we already get that from the left.
And please don't say "There is no way she survives". Nobody knows that, these things are fluid and things change. She resigned and now her replacement can run as an incumbent. What if her policies stay in place and Alaska rebounds? What if she sues that bitch blogger and MSNBC and actually wins? Writes a best selling book? Becomes leader of the RNC and we retake the house and senate?
I would just hope that our favorite bloggers would help the disenchanted find a glimmer of hope somewhere in this, we already get the obvious from the left, we dont need from our own as well.
The meme that she is finished in politics is already out there, I don't need to read it ad nauseum from my favorite conservative blogs. I get it, it looks and smells as if she is finished.
I guess I go to my favorite blogs in hopes that they have done the research so I don't have to about some of the particulars. But since I really didn't read much I went and found it myself and formed my own decisions as to how she might survive this. I think we want OUR side to discuss HOW she will survive this, not just flat say "She is finished", we already get that from the left.
And please don't say "There is no way she survives". Nobody knows that, these things are fluid and things change. She resigned and now her replacement can run as an incumbent. What if her policies stay in place and Alaska rebounds? What if she sues that bitch blogger and MSNBC and actually wins? Writes a best selling book? Becomes leader of the RNC and we retake the house and senate?
I would just hope that our favorite bloggers would help the disenchanted find a glimmer of hope somewhere in this, we already get the obvious from the left, we dont need from our own as well.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:30 AM (E557J)
411
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 12:17 AM (JPEqm)
Or perhaps it would have been nice if she had honored her commitment and served her term.
I did not know those were no longer conservative vales.
2.5 years as Governor of Alaska and then quitting isn't exactly a beefy resume for a Presidential wannabe.
Yes, Obama's resume. Two things on that...
1-I think he was and is woefully ill prepared for the job
2-How's it working out so far?
If Obama is going to be beatable in '12 people will in no small part blame his poor performance on his thin resume. And our answer to that will be? A woman who quit a little more than halfway into her biggest and pretty much only elected office?
That's a hell of a plan.
Or perhaps it would have been nice if she had honored her commitment and served her term.
I did not know those were no longer conservative vales.
2.5 years as Governor of Alaska and then quitting isn't exactly a beefy resume for a Presidential wannabe.
Yes, Obama's resume. Two things on that...
1-I think he was and is woefully ill prepared for the job
2-How's it working out so far?
If Obama is going to be beatable in '12 people will in no small part blame his poor performance on his thin resume. And our answer to that will be? A woman who quit a little more than halfway into her biggest and pretty much only elected office?
That's a hell of a plan.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:30 AM (iTt2X)
412
Posted by: eman at July 05, 2009 12:27 AM (fpywm)
Here's my point in all of this...we really should be looking how it plays beyond the 20-30% who are already in the bag for her (and those are more than generous amounts). It simply doesn't play as well in the real world outside of conservative blogs.
I know you wish it were otherwise but it's not.
Here's my point in all of this...we really should be looking how it plays beyond the 20-30% who are already in the bag for her (and those are more than generous amounts). It simply doesn't play as well in the real world outside of conservative blogs.
I know you wish it were otherwise but it's not.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:32 AM (iTt2X)
413
"People don't like quitters."
You know, maybe "people" aren't all the ruthless, cold, selfish shits you are making them out to be. Well, okay, they are -- but maybe they know how to understand that sometimes there are good reasons for leaving a situation. You know, like when a woman leaves her husband because he beats her and has no plans to stop, and he also beats the kids -- despite the fact that divorce is in general a bad thing. We don't tell her anymore to stay with him so she won't let everyone who came to their wedding down.
Naaah! What am I thinking? That abused wife should stay married to her brute of a husband. Never mind the welfare of the children -- it's so she can impress everyone that a good wife stays with her man. Appearances are more important! As is the sanctity of marriage as well. She and the kids'll just have to suck it up.
You know, maybe "people" aren't all the ruthless, cold, selfish shits you are making them out to be. Well, okay, they are -- but maybe they know how to understand that sometimes there are good reasons for leaving a situation. You know, like when a woman leaves her husband because he beats her and has no plans to stop, and he also beats the kids -- despite the fact that divorce is in general a bad thing. We don't tell her anymore to stay with him so she won't let everyone who came to their wedding down.
Naaah! What am I thinking? That abused wife should stay married to her brute of a husband. Never mind the welfare of the children -- it's so she can impress everyone that a good wife stays with her man. Appearances are more important! As is the sanctity of marriage as well. She and the kids'll just have to suck it up.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 12:33 AM (Yi1WZ)
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 05, 2009 12:36 AM (UU3J6)
415
TendStl,
I get that, so I'm not actually blogging about it.
But the only hope I could offer you would be dishonest hope, because I don't believe it.
I do get that everyone loves her. But there are what seem to me to be pretty obvious signs she's had it (and who could blame her?) and doesn't need this toxic nastiness. And so she's done.
That to me is the obvious take-away and there is no likely alternative explanation. So that's what I think. I think the left went after her and took her out. Pawn takes queen.
I get that, so I'm not actually blogging about it.
But the only hope I could offer you would be dishonest hope, because I don't believe it.
I do get that everyone loves her. But there are what seem to me to be pretty obvious signs she's had it (and who could blame her?) and doesn't need this toxic nastiness. And so she's done.
That to me is the obvious take-away and there is no likely alternative explanation. So that's what I think. I think the left went after her and took her out. Pawn takes queen.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:38 AM (gEsIJ)
416
So "honoring her commitment and serving her term" was the end all and be all for you even though she'd never get anything else accomplished for the state? Even though that would have cut her out at the knees and prevented her from doing anything substantive either in Alaska or for the conservative movement? Even though it would have put her policy agenda for Alaska at serious risk?
It's a gambit for her to do this to be sure. But my problem with Obama isn't that he's inexperienced. It's that he's experience in all the wrong things and, before we gave him the most important executive job in the world, he'd never run a thing.
Palin however has executive experience right now and, with this leap, she's put herself in the position to possibly become a king maker. She can help the countless candidates pleading for her help for 2010.
And you're darn tootin' she can be a strong contender. Already on her resume and as she stated on Friday, she has a record for tackling corruption, reigning in the government and returning business to the private sector. Add to that her pipeline, which again she helps ensure goes through without any stops by putting Parnell in NOW rather than waiting around for the blue Republicans to forward one of their own to go against him, and you have someone formidable.
Get off the word quit. She changed the rules of the game. She's not allowing herself to be suckerpunched, ignored and relegated to obscurity way up north.
It's a gambit for her to do this to be sure. But my problem with Obama isn't that he's inexperienced. It's that he's experience in all the wrong things and, before we gave him the most important executive job in the world, he'd never run a thing.
Palin however has executive experience right now and, with this leap, she's put herself in the position to possibly become a king maker. She can help the countless candidates pleading for her help for 2010.
And you're darn tootin' she can be a strong contender. Already on her resume and as she stated on Friday, she has a record for tackling corruption, reigning in the government and returning business to the private sector. Add to that her pipeline, which again she helps ensure goes through without any stops by putting Parnell in NOW rather than waiting around for the blue Republicans to forward one of their own to go against him, and you have someone formidable.
Get off the word quit. She changed the rules of the game. She's not allowing herself to be suckerpunched, ignored and relegated to obscurity way up north.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 12:40 AM (JPEqm)
417
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 12:33 AM (Yi1WZ)
First, I don't think comparing Palin to a battered woman will help her.
Second, if she wants to President then no, leaving isn't an option. There will be a lot of people, some of them very nasty and ruthless types who will be on hand to make any president's life a living hell.
Some of them will be political opponents but some of them will be really dangerous types like Putin, Khamenei, Hu Jintao and the rest of China's leadership group.
I think "Palin...Beat up and run out of the Governor's office by the press and Alaskan gadflys but ready to take on the world" is going to be a problem.
FTR-As I said yesterday, as a human being, I get this and if I were a friend I'd be behind her 100%. Unfortunately running for President has nothing to do with being human or friends.
First, I don't think comparing Palin to a battered woman will help her.
Second, if she wants to President then no, leaving isn't an option. There will be a lot of people, some of them very nasty and ruthless types who will be on hand to make any president's life a living hell.
Some of them will be political opponents but some of them will be really dangerous types like Putin, Khamenei, Hu Jintao and the rest of China's leadership group.
I think "Palin...Beat up and run out of the Governor's office by the press and Alaskan gadflys but ready to take on the world" is going to be a problem.
FTR-As I said yesterday, as a human being, I get this and if I were a friend I'd be behind her 100%. Unfortunately running for President has nothing to do with being human or friends.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:42 AM (iTt2X)
418
No other takeaway even though she said to trust her and to wait for more details soon? That it was something good?
Right. She must have, for the first time in her life, decided to cower away from bullies and lick her wounds. No other possible answer is viable. Gotcha.
Right. She must have, for the first time in her life, decided to cower away from bullies and lick her wounds. No other possible answer is viable. Gotcha.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 12:42 AM (JPEqm)
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 05, 2009 12:44 AM (UU3J6)
420
It's like this:
Marriage = Sarah Palin's term of office as gov. of Alaska
Wedding Party who bought all those gifts = people who voted for her in Alaska
Abusive husband = Sarah-hating leftists and the media (but I repeat myself)
The kids = the office of governor + her family
Unsympathetic and/or ineffectual in-laws = the McCain campaign staff, McCain, Republican Party members who have ignored her because they are sure she uses the same fork to eat fish and moose steak with, the beltway pundits who won't settle for less than Ronald Reagan and William F. Buckley's love child, bloggers who made up a 2012 run for president for her out of their own wistful, gossamer hopes and dreams even though she hadn't given any indication that she was planning on doing any such thing.
The marriage couldn't be saved. That is all.
Marriage = Sarah Palin's term of office as gov. of Alaska
Wedding Party who bought all those gifts = people who voted for her in Alaska
Abusive husband = Sarah-hating leftists and the media (but I repeat myself)
The kids = the office of governor + her family
Unsympathetic and/or ineffectual in-laws = the McCain campaign staff, McCain, Republican Party members who have ignored her because they are sure she uses the same fork to eat fish and moose steak with, the beltway pundits who won't settle for less than Ronald Reagan and William F. Buckley's love child, bloggers who made up a 2012 run for president for her out of their own wistful, gossamer hopes and dreams even though she hadn't given any indication that she was planning on doing any such thing.
The marriage couldn't be saved. That is all.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 12:45 AM (Yi1WZ)
421
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 12:45 AM (Yi1WZ)
I'm loathe to get into this because I know a lot of people are invested in Palin and are sad about what happened. I get that and respect it.
That would be fine but I wish people would stop trying to tell the rest of us not only is this understandable and lamentable but it's actually supper awesome.
I'd agree with the first two but the third is simply not true.
A political office is not a marriage. To be elected you have to convince 50%+1 you are the right person for the job. Quitting your one major office a bit more than halfway through the first term is simply not a viable selling point for higher office.
The minority of people who support her already will support her in the future. The rest of the people she'll need are going to be damn near impossible to convince no matter how valid her reasons may be.
I'm loathe to get into this because I know a lot of people are invested in Palin and are sad about what happened. I get that and respect it.
That would be fine but I wish people would stop trying to tell the rest of us not only is this understandable and lamentable but it's actually supper awesome.
I'd agree with the first two but the third is simply not true.
A political office is not a marriage. To be elected you have to convince 50%+1 you are the right person for the job. Quitting your one major office a bit more than halfway through the first term is simply not a viable selling point for higher office.
The minority of people who support her already will support her in the future. The rest of the people she'll need are going to be damn near impossible to convince no matter how valid her reasons may be.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:50 AM (iTt2X)
422
Let me throw this out there. What would have happened if she stayed, wants to run for POTUS 2012 and is a lameduck in her final year, still defending lawsuits in her final year?
Is THAT a better position to be in? Can you imagine the headlines from the MSM?
AP HEADLINE:
"Republican Candidate spends last year in office answering ethics complaints"
Its a serious question and would love input as to how this scenario is better.
Is THAT a better position to be in? Can you imagine the headlines from the MSM?
AP HEADLINE:
"Republican Candidate spends last year in office answering ethics complaints"
Its a serious question and would love input as to how this scenario is better.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:52 AM (E557J)
423
Palin to me is a pragmatic person. What she is doing is pragmatic.
She went to school. She went to multiple schools. So what? She had the goal to get her degree and she accomplished it however circuitously. She was not born with prestige or a silver spoon. Good for her. She worked her way through despite obstacles. Pragmatic. Do what it takes. Finish long-term goal.
Her husband has a blue-collar business. Fishing. Tough and dirty. Does she refuse to get her hands dirty? No. Needs sustenance. Independent. Pragmatic. Get the hard work done.
She decides to enter local politics. She participated. Concerns with local government waste? Solve it. Get involved. Pragmatic. See void? Fill. Fix.
See bigger problems? Address them. See opportunity as mayor? Incumbent in the way? No problem. Run on wasteful spending and high taxes. Check them. Pragmatic. Solve the problem. Spoke to voters directly and addressed their concerns. Support overwhelming... for her action and pragmatism.
Opportunity presented itself? She jumped. She was appointed to Oil and Gas Conservation Commissioner. Despite the perks, she saw problems and took on her own party for ethics violations. Change not possible under the circumstances? She threw a wrench in the status quo. Pragmatic. She found a way. She resigned in order to advance stature and good policy. It worked. The State was better off for her "quitting." She was no wilting flower then for forcing unethical behavior from a peer and filing ethics charges. She's no hypocrite now for protesting the frivolous ethics charges or for "quitting again" to let the State better conduct its business, to bring attention to bad government, to let the public vote. Pragmatic.
Her success brings her to the State Mansion. She succeeds spectacularly. Alaska well served. Down-to-Earth persona and action endears her to the constituency. She solved problems. She cut waste. Pragmatic.
So skip a bit and here we are today. Palin quits one position that had become untenable for many reasons. We all know them though the order of their import remains a mystery. She quit. [*shreiks from detractors*] She quit! So what. So! what! Expect future problems? Avoid them temporarily. Make the best of a bad situation however unfair. Keyword? Temporarily. It's a hurdle. It'll be jumped.
Pragmatism. Barriers with deep roots abound. Is she really quitting? No, she's not. Yes, she is handing over her current reigns to her understudy who will be the de facto conservative incumbent to carry on her original vision (hopefully just as well). Good for Palin. She's slowed, not stopped. She's moving ahead. Pragmatic. She's not beating her head against the wall others have set up for her - in essence, an impenetrable box. She jumped. Not out of the picture. Out of their gunsights. Brilliant? Time will tell. But she won't be the static target. She's moving to push her vision from another angle. Pragmatic. The finisher. The marathon runner.
I'm tracking her and not her naysayers. They're mere spectators. She's the star. The leader. The pragmatist.
Why write this? Is it an ode? No. First, it's in small sentences so even morons can grasp it. More importantly it expresses in longform the view that some of us think Palin is actually pretty clever. I reject the chattering class spin of events. I don't think I'm alone. While the classical political Rubik's cube is followed by the inbred prostitutes and presstitutes we have poisoning or culture now, Palin may have found a Rosetta Stone. Perhaps she doesn't need to toy around. Maybe, just maybe, she has some other answers up her sleeve. I'm going with the pragmatist. "Quitter" is petty critique to be tossed aside with other trash. She's just acting in more fruitful ways whether we know her ultimate destination or not. Yes, she "quit." So what! So what!
She went to school. She went to multiple schools. So what? She had the goal to get her degree and she accomplished it however circuitously. She was not born with prestige or a silver spoon. Good for her. She worked her way through despite obstacles. Pragmatic. Do what it takes. Finish long-term goal.
Her husband has a blue-collar business. Fishing. Tough and dirty. Does she refuse to get her hands dirty? No. Needs sustenance. Independent. Pragmatic. Get the hard work done.
She decides to enter local politics. She participated. Concerns with local government waste? Solve it. Get involved. Pragmatic. See void? Fill. Fix.
See bigger problems? Address them. See opportunity as mayor? Incumbent in the way? No problem. Run on wasteful spending and high taxes. Check them. Pragmatic. Solve the problem. Spoke to voters directly and addressed their concerns. Support overwhelming... for her action and pragmatism.
Opportunity presented itself? She jumped. She was appointed to Oil and Gas Conservation Commissioner. Despite the perks, she saw problems and took on her own party for ethics violations. Change not possible under the circumstances? She threw a wrench in the status quo. Pragmatic. She found a way. She resigned in order to advance stature and good policy. It worked. The State was better off for her "quitting." She was no wilting flower then for forcing unethical behavior from a peer and filing ethics charges. She's no hypocrite now for protesting the frivolous ethics charges or for "quitting again" to let the State better conduct its business, to bring attention to bad government, to let the public vote. Pragmatic.
Her success brings her to the State Mansion. She succeeds spectacularly. Alaska well served. Down-to-Earth persona and action endears her to the constituency. She solved problems. She cut waste. Pragmatic.
So skip a bit and here we are today. Palin quits one position that had become untenable for many reasons. We all know them though the order of their import remains a mystery. She quit. [*shreiks from detractors*] She quit! So what. So! what! Expect future problems? Avoid them temporarily. Make the best of a bad situation however unfair. Keyword? Temporarily. It's a hurdle. It'll be jumped.
Pragmatism. Barriers with deep roots abound. Is she really quitting? No, she's not. Yes, she is handing over her current reigns to her understudy who will be the de facto conservative incumbent to carry on her original vision (hopefully just as well). Good for Palin. She's slowed, not stopped. She's moving ahead. Pragmatic. She's not beating her head against the wall others have set up for her - in essence, an impenetrable box. She jumped. Not out of the picture. Out of their gunsights. Brilliant? Time will tell. But she won't be the static target. She's moving to push her vision from another angle. Pragmatic. The finisher. The marathon runner.
I'm tracking her and not her naysayers. They're mere spectators. She's the star. The leader. The pragmatist.
Why write this? Is it an ode? No. First, it's in small sentences so even morons can grasp it. More importantly it expresses in longform the view that some of us think Palin is actually pretty clever. I reject the chattering class spin of events. I don't think I'm alone. While the classical political Rubik's cube is followed by the inbred prostitutes and presstitutes we have poisoning or culture now, Palin may have found a Rosetta Stone. Perhaps she doesn't need to toy around. Maybe, just maybe, she has some other answers up her sleeve. I'm going with the pragmatist. "Quitter" is petty critique to be tossed aside with other trash. She's just acting in more fruitful ways whether we know her ultimate destination or not. Yes, she "quit." So what! So what!
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 12:53 AM (rZ235)
424
Okay, so ace seems to think she's out of politics.
That's certainly a possible outcome, and time will tell. Rather soon, I'd imagine. If she's not out there doing speaking engagements making speeches to advance conservatism within the next, oh, say, 8 weeks, then I was wrong and you're right.
The odd thing is that even the media seems to think she's setting herself up for the national stage. Some are jumping ahead and assuming a White House run in '12, (I am not), but a lot of lefties seem to think Palin is not out of politics and is gearing up for something national.
Okay, so ace seems to think she's out of politics.
That's certainly a possible outcome, and time will tell. Rather soon, I'd imagine. If she's not out there doing speaking engagements making speeches to advance conservatism within the next, oh, say, 8 weeks, then I was wrong and you're right.
The odd thing is that even the media seems to think she's setting herself up for the national stage. Some are jumping ahead and assuming a White House run in '12, (I am not), but a lot of lefties seem to think Palin is not out of politics and is gearing up for something national.
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 05, 2009 12:55 AM (UU3J6)
425
If Obama is going to be beatable in '12 people will in no small part blame his poor performance on his thin resume. And our answer to that will be? A woman who quit a little more than halfway into her biggest and pretty much only elected office?
In 2012 the questions will be "why are we so screwed?", "who is to blame, Obama or Bush?", and "how do we fix this?" If Palin wins that debate, no one will care what she did yesterday, not even you. We are not a nation of HR drones.
In 2012 the questions will be "why are we so screwed?", "who is to blame, Obama or Bush?", and "how do we fix this?" If Palin wins that debate, no one will care what she did yesterday, not even you. We are not a nation of HR drones.
Posted by: schizoid at July 05, 2009 12:57 AM (+d5Ab)
426
"Quitter" is petty critique to be tossed aside with other trash.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 12:53 AM (rZ235)
Sadly, Palin supporters don't get to decide what gets tossed out or not. I promise you she will be beat to hell with that. I wouldn't be surprised if Axlerod already has a rough cut of the spot I outlined above in his desk draw.
Again, Palin fans won't be bothered but others will.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 12:53 AM (rZ235)
Sadly, Palin supporters don't get to decide what gets tossed out or not. I promise you she will be beat to hell with that. I wouldn't be surprised if Axlerod already has a rough cut of the spot I outlined above in his desk draw.
Again, Palin fans won't be bothered but others will.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:00 AM (iTt2X)
427
"Second, if she wants to President"
Who said she wants to be President? Oh yeah, some of you guys. I never did. I have no idea whether she wants to run for president someday or not. If she does, I'll vote for her. You guys can sit there with your thumbs up your butts, sulking because "she quitted her job!"
And do you really think Putin et al are going to join in on this sort of fun? It's not exactly statesman-like, even if you're an ex-KGB guy, to make fun of a woman's Downs Syndrome baby. And I don't think he's got any reason to sue her. And I don't think that even whatsisname in North Korea would stoop so low as to make a rape joke about one of her daughters. Frankly I think that after what she's been through at the hands of her fellow Americans she'd be completely unfazed by anything our foreign enemies can dish out. Talk about trial by fire.
Who said she wants to be President? Oh yeah, some of you guys. I never did. I have no idea whether she wants to run for president someday or not. If she does, I'll vote for her. You guys can sit there with your thumbs up your butts, sulking because "she quitted her job!"
And do you really think Putin et al are going to join in on this sort of fun? It's not exactly statesman-like, even if you're an ex-KGB guy, to make fun of a woman's Downs Syndrome baby. And I don't think he's got any reason to sue her. And I don't think that even whatsisname in North Korea would stoop so low as to make a rape joke about one of her daughters. Frankly I think that after what she's been through at the hands of her fellow Americans she'd be completely unfazed by anything our foreign enemies can dish out. Talk about trial by fire.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 01:01 AM (Yi1WZ)
428
Oh by the way, that whole "an indictment is coming down on Palin"? Its complete and utter fucking bullshit:
From the LA Times:
"There is absolutely no truth to those rumors that we're investigating
her or getting ready to indict her," Special Agent Eric Gonzalez said
in a phone interview Saturday. "It's just not true." He added that
there was "no wiggle room" in his comments for any kind of inquiry.
From the LA Times:
"There is absolutely no truth to those rumors that we're investigating
her or getting ready to indict her," Special Agent Eric Gonzalez said
in a phone interview Saturday. "It's just not true." He added that
there was "no wiggle room" in his comments for any kind of inquiry.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:01 AM (E557J)
429
The only question that will matter in 2012 is:
Are you better off now than you were four years ago?
The Democrats are going to be hoisted on their own petard. All we need in 2012 is an anti-Obama. Hey whattayouknow, Sarah Palin is the opposite of Obama!
The only question that will matter in 2012 is:
Are you better off now than you were four years ago?
The Democrats are going to be hoisted on their own petard. All we need in 2012 is an anti-Obama. Hey whattayouknow, Sarah Palin is the opposite of Obama!
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 05, 2009 01:02 AM (UU3J6)
430
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:52 AM (E557J)
My $.02...
It's not an either/or. She's going to get beat up on the phony ethics charges anyway. Now there will be the added bit of "and her inability to refute and keep up with her responsibilities forced her from office".
The 'quitter' tag will hurt her. It's another club she's handed them.
Of course, I don't think she's going to run again, certainly not in '12. She'll be involved in the debate but not as a candidate.
My $.02...
It's not an either/or. She's going to get beat up on the phony ethics charges anyway. Now there will be the added bit of "and her inability to refute and keep up with her responsibilities forced her from office".
The 'quitter' tag will hurt her. It's another club she's handed them.
Of course, I don't think she's going to run again, certainly not in '12. She'll be involved in the debate but not as a candidate.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:05 AM (iTt2X)
431
Incidentally, the novelty of being historic will not be there for Obama the second time around. The novelty will be gone, the experiment will be over, and Obama will be history.
Unless of course an amnesty is passed for tens of millions of illegals. Then it's curtains for the GOP. Seriously.
Incidentally, the novelty of being historic will not be there for Obama the second time around. The novelty will be gone, the experiment will be over, and Obama will be history.
Unless of course an amnesty is passed for tens of millions of illegals. Then it's curtains for the GOP. Seriously.
Posted by: Unicle tweets at July 05, 2009 01:07 AM (UU3J6)
432
Since when is Ace not a RINO?
He's pro choice.
He's pro gay marriage.
I think he may be squishy on illegal immigration but don't quote me.
And I think he voted for Clinton.
He's pro choice.
He's pro gay marriage.
I think he may be squishy on illegal immigration but don't quote me.
And I think he voted for Clinton.
Posted by: nomo at July 05, 2009 01:09 AM (oPemE)
433
Who said she wants to be President? Oh yeah, some of you guys. I never did.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 01:01 AM (Yi1WZ)
Then you aren't one of the people saying it's a super awesome smart move to propel her to the presidency. I apologize for including you with them.
As I said, if she's out because she's had enough, I don't blame her in the least. It's unfortunate to give 'them' a win but on a human level, it makes total sense.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 01:01 AM (Yi1WZ)
Then you aren't one of the people saying it's a super awesome smart move to propel her to the presidency. I apologize for including you with them.
As I said, if she's out because she's had enough, I don't blame her in the least. It's unfortunate to give 'them' a win but on a human level, it makes total sense.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:11 AM (iTt2X)
434
Oh, those sacred "others" that have to be impressed and cajoled and flattered so they'll vote. I don't care about them. They can go to hell. Seriously -- people like that are nothing more than "swing" voters who can be "swung" like lariats by anyone who picks up the rope. They have no ideas of their own. They follow the popular crowd. They care about superficial things like accents and what college you went to and whether Cute Anchor Man is saying nice things about them on teevee. They go where the money is -- that is, the "free" money they want from the government. No one conservatives are willing to back will impress the mushy middle.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 01:12 AM (Yi1WZ)
435
Posted by: nomo at July 05, 2009 01:09 AM (oPemE)
Have you, you know, ever read this site before?
Based on your run down of what you see as Ace's positions, I'm pretty sure you haven't.
Have you, you know, ever read this site before?
Based on your run down of what you see as Ace's positions, I'm pretty sure you haven't.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:12 AM (iTt2X)
436
I've already said, if she decides to run for president I'll vote for her, but I don't think she will -- at least, not in 2012. I could be wrong, but I think from what she's been saying she's got longer term plans than that in mind. For one thing, revenge is always a dish best served cold. Everything's too hot right now.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 01:16 AM (Yi1WZ)
Posted by: Beverly at July 05, 2009 01:18 AM (QAfJv)
438
My God how defeatist.
Axlerod has a rough cut of an attack ad against anyone perceived as a threat to his Oneness. Should we just give up and not support anyone because of what Axlerod could say or...how about we decide not to care what Axlerod may or may not use and grow a freakin' backbone?
Acknowledge that if not this, Axlerod would have used something else against Palin, whether she chooses to run or not.
And you know, I'm sure Palin understood that people might initially perceive this negatively but I think she'll be doing so many positive things and so much will happen with this country that this issue will be a non-issue within short order, especially if she is perceived as helping key candidates get into office.
It's time to fight so stop whinging like girly men and grow a pair.
Axlerod has a rough cut of an attack ad against anyone perceived as a threat to his Oneness. Should we just give up and not support anyone because of what Axlerod could say or...how about we decide not to care what Axlerod may or may not use and grow a freakin' backbone?
Acknowledge that if not this, Axlerod would have used something else against Palin, whether she chooses to run or not.
And you know, I'm sure Palin understood that people might initially perceive this negatively but I think she'll be doing so many positive things and so much will happen with this country that this issue will be a non-issue within short order, especially if she is perceived as helping key candidates get into office.
It's time to fight so stop whinging like girly men and grow a pair.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 01:19 AM (JPEqm)
439
DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:00 AM (iTt2X):
Again, Palin fans won't be bothered but others will.
OK. Fine. I'll let you keep bringing up this "flaw" so that you may maintain your impartial criticality. I understand it. But I'm choosing not to get boxed in to the paradigm set by others who would smear her. I'm not saying you are, but you are advancing the argument from those who would smear her as a warning that the attack is inevitable. By the same token, we aren't ostriches oblivious to facts. We just see them differently and are willing to advance an alternate view, a view we believe to have more validity regardless of what the opposition says. They're going to say what they're going to say. I'm not going to go out of my way to help them. Today, however, I am willing to go out of my way to correct an injustice and to fight for what's right, to defend one who has sacrificed so much, and much more than any current politician, to advance our cause. Not Palin's cause... the conservative one.
I owe her. Maybe you can eschew the perfect for the good and give Palin the break she has earned even if you have to swallow your integrity for a few days.
I don't assume she's running for president. I assume she'll be Kingmaker for 2010 and survey the field after those results are in. Three and a half years are an eternity. By the time Obama gets done with us, the nation might be willing to elect a ham sandwich. At least a pepperoni pizza with double mozarella. Now, I like pepperoni, but I like Palin more. I figure the nation would, too. She'd have a shot. I won't be too worried about what David 'Hi-My-Team-Fucked-The-Nation-Up' Axelrod mixes up in a video. Worst case? Palin "The Quitter" drags Romney's pasty, white, boring ass across the finish line.
Again, Palin fans won't be bothered but others will.
OK. Fine. I'll let you keep bringing up this "flaw" so that you may maintain your impartial criticality. I understand it. But I'm choosing not to get boxed in to the paradigm set by others who would smear her. I'm not saying you are, but you are advancing the argument from those who would smear her as a warning that the attack is inevitable. By the same token, we aren't ostriches oblivious to facts. We just see them differently and are willing to advance an alternate view, a view we believe to have more validity regardless of what the opposition says. They're going to say what they're going to say. I'm not going to go out of my way to help them. Today, however, I am willing to go out of my way to correct an injustice and to fight for what's right, to defend one who has sacrificed so much, and much more than any current politician, to advance our cause. Not Palin's cause... the conservative one.
I owe her. Maybe you can eschew the perfect for the good and give Palin the break she has earned even if you have to swallow your integrity for a few days.
I don't assume she's running for president. I assume she'll be Kingmaker for 2010 and survey the field after those results are in. Three and a half years are an eternity. By the time Obama gets done with us, the nation might be willing to elect a ham sandwich. At least a pepperoni pizza with double mozarella. Now, I like pepperoni, but I like Palin more. I figure the nation would, too. She'd have a shot. I won't be too worried about what David 'Hi-My-Team-Fucked-The-Nation-Up' Axelrod mixes up in a video. Worst case? Palin "The Quitter" drags Romney's pasty, white, boring ass across the finish line.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 01:27 AM (rZ235)
440
Mary Beth,
I like the cut of your newsletter and wish to subscribe to your jib.
I like the cut of your newsletter and wish to subscribe to your jib.
Posted by: Mr. Wednesday Night at July 05, 2009 01:29 AM (FD3EH)
441
Mary beth, problem is there are just way too many Beta males on this site!
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 01:41 AM (QVuEf)
442
You know what's funny? While conservative blogs are full of gloom and doom, MSM reporting is fairly positive.
My favorite quote:
"If she is thinking that leaving her term 16 months early is going to help her prepare to maybe go on to bigger and better things on the political stage, I think she's sadly mistaken. You just can't quit," said Andrew Halcro, a Palin critic who lost the 2006 gubernatorial race to her.
Heh.
My favorite quote:
"If she is thinking that leaving her term 16 months early is going to help her prepare to maybe go on to bigger and better things on the political stage, I think she's sadly mistaken. You just can't quit," said Andrew Halcro, a Palin critic who lost the 2006 gubernatorial race to her.
Heh.
Posted by: schizoid at July 05, 2009 01:42 AM (LPi1Q)
443
DrewM and Ace -- we get it -- "conventional" wisdom says she's done. The problem is: our side is the only side living by the conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom said the Horndog from Hope should have been done when his predilection for extra-curricular Oval Office entertainment came to light and he had the cojones to lie about it under oath. Conventional wisdom says that an unknown wardheeler from Chicago shouldn't go from the Illinois state Senate to the White House in less than five years.
From where I sit, the conventional wisdom ain't what it used to be and the conservative movement needs figure that out and adjust the strategy. This whole notion of "we gotta play by the rules or it's not worth doing" just got flushed down the can by a tsunami of illegal cash and a ton of in-kind services from the lapdog MSM. If we keep playing by the conventional wisdom of the last century, we're just asking to keep getting punched in the nuts every time we step into the ring.
Time for Chicago rules. Kick the rat bastards in the shins, the ass, the nuts -- wherever and whenever you can do it. And don't stop doing it until the bum is gone. Then move on to the next target of opportunity. Where's the next Drudge digging out the dirt on some of these Democrat buffoons?
If there's any frigging justice in the world, Sarah will combine forces with somebody like Andrew Breitbart and build the conservative equivalent of HuffPo or DailyKOS, sucking all of the conservative advertising revenue out of the right-wing blogosphere. Then all the current crop of conservative bloggers will put on their kneepads and line up for some linky-love, just like the lefties do with Ariana and Markos.
From where I sit, the conventional wisdom ain't what it used to be and the conservative movement needs figure that out and adjust the strategy. This whole notion of "we gotta play by the rules or it's not worth doing" just got flushed down the can by a tsunami of illegal cash and a ton of in-kind services from the lapdog MSM. If we keep playing by the conventional wisdom of the last century, we're just asking to keep getting punched in the nuts every time we step into the ring.
Time for Chicago rules. Kick the rat bastards in the shins, the ass, the nuts -- wherever and whenever you can do it. And don't stop doing it until the bum is gone. Then move on to the next target of opportunity. Where's the next Drudge digging out the dirt on some of these Democrat buffoons?
If there's any frigging justice in the world, Sarah will combine forces with somebody like Andrew Breitbart and build the conservative equivalent of HuffPo or DailyKOS, sucking all of the conservative advertising revenue out of the right-wing blogosphere. Then all the current crop of conservative bloggers will put on their kneepads and line up for some linky-love, just like the lefties do with Ariana and Markos.
Posted by: trfogey at July 05, 2009 01:42 AM (9zyH6)
444
Ad rem and Mr. Wednesday Night...it's a funny thing when the women have more testicular fortitude then the men.
Palin must really be rubbing off on me.
Palin must really be rubbing off on me.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 02:03 AM (JPEqm)
445
Mary Beth@454,
What am I? A lump of clay*?
*And for the internet record, I'm a hermaphrodite. As far as anyone knows.
What am I? A lump of clay*?
*And for the internet record, I'm a hermaphrodite. As far as anyone knows.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 02:11 AM (rZ235)
446
Well I see this thread is still going which again is a testament to the power of Palin to energize people.
I see Ace is not happy to be challenged in his conventional wisdom.
Ace, here is my biggest problem. It is not so much whether Palin has committed political suicide or not. Only time will tell that. My problem is that it seems that among our own here that is a large tendency for some to pile on conservative politicians any time they do anything not within the proper mold.
We can disagree on whether or not Palin should not have resigned her office of Governor. We can agree that Sanford should not have cheated on his wife. But what we should not be doing is piling on the attack bus along with the Democrats.
If you think resigning is a bad move, a simple one paragraph column that says Palin is resigning and this is not good would suffice.
I see Ace is not happy to be challenged in his conventional wisdom.
Ace, here is my biggest problem. It is not so much whether Palin has committed political suicide or not. Only time will tell that. My problem is that it seems that among our own here that is a large tendency for some to pile on conservative politicians any time they do anything not within the proper mold.
We can disagree on whether or not Palin should not have resigned her office of Governor. We can agree that Sanford should not have cheated on his wife. But what we should not be doing is piling on the attack bus along with the Democrats.
If you think resigning is a bad move, a simple one paragraph column that says Palin is resigning and this is not good would suffice.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 02:27 AM (5ynkO)
447
I LOVE Sarah Palin but I agree with you Ace ... I don't understand why she quit her job. Not running for Governor again .. that I could understand. But quitting? I'm disappointed in her. I'm still a HUGE supporter and would work/volunteer for her in a heart beat. She could have finished out her term and then done the book tour, etc. Palin has taken an unfair and brutal beating by the MSM, blogs, gossip sites, the McCain campaign ... everyone has come after Palin and her family. I would not be able to handle it as well as she has. But to use the treatment she received as an excuse to quit ... it's not like it's going to stop! They will still be going after Sarah and her children if she decides to stay in politics.
Anyway, Ace, enjoy some time off. This is your blog and we are reading it to find out YOUR opinion on events so ... say what you want!
)
Anyway, Ace, enjoy some time off. This is your blog and we are reading it to find out YOUR opinion on events so ... say what you want!
) Posted by: Chrissy at July 05, 2009 02:47 AM (qeO6+)
448
Excellent points by Vic and trfogey
We're all shocked by Palin's announcement- no one knows what happens next. These are extraordinary times and Palin is an extraordinary woman and therefore normal rules don't apply.
Saying "she's finished" is as futile as predicting she'll be the next president.
At this point, any prediction is either wishful thinking or simply defeatist. But if you're going to predict, why go for the negative.
In this case shouldn't hope trump cynicism?
Excellent points by Vic and trfogey
We're all shocked by Palin's announcement- no one knows what happens next. These are extraordinary times and Palin is an extraordinary woman and therefore normal rules don't apply.
Saying "she's finished" is as futile as predicting she'll be the next president.
At this point, any prediction is either wishful thinking or simply defeatist. But if you're going to predict, why go for the negative.
In this case shouldn't hope trump cynicism?
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 02:56 AM (0cY8h)
449
Good series starting over at Flopping Acesconcerning the current Palin moves. It starts with the AK ethics complaint stuff and why Sarah Palin has been powerless to do anything about it.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 03:01 AM (5ynkO)
450
Chrissy, you said:
I'm disappointed in her. I'm still a HUGE supporter and would work/volunteer for her in a heart beat.
I am also disappointed- actually devastated; although I'm not yet sure if I should be disappointed with her for making a bad decision, or supportive of her for taking an extraordinarily brave gamble. Time- not Ace nor me nor David Gergen - will tell.
The difference between Chrissy and Ace is that while they're both disappointed, one has predicted Palin's political death while the other re-affirms her support wholeheartedly.
A question for Ace, Drew and others who with them:
Should Sarah Palin announce, at some point in the future, her intention to run for President- would you support her? or would you at least say now whether you would entertain the possibility of doing so?
Chrissy, you said:
I'm disappointed in her. I'm still a HUGE supporter and would work/volunteer for her in a heart beat.
I am also disappointed- actually devastated; although I'm not yet sure if I should be disappointed with her for making a bad decision, or supportive of her for taking an extraordinarily brave gamble. Time- not Ace nor me nor David Gergen - will tell.
The difference between Chrissy and Ace is that while they're both disappointed, one has predicted Palin's political death while the other re-affirms her support wholeheartedly.
A question for Ace, Drew and others who with them:
Should Sarah Palin announce, at some point in the future, her intention to run for President- would you support her? or would you at least say now whether you would entertain the possibility of doing so?
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 03:13 AM (0cY8h)
451
Outstanding reference, Vic@459.
I thought of Rules for Radicals this whole time, too. Create chaos. Overwhelm the system. Make it dysfunctional. Administration mired in sidetracks cannot function or respond to constituent needs. Causes a waste resources. Voters get angry and turn on targeted incumbent.
The Right better get its head screwed on quick and study Alinsky's Bible. It's killing the GOP, yet the GOP plods along without making these teachable moments.
The GOP needs to explain in simple form the Alinsky rulebook and how it's being systematically applied. Buy air time if necessary and promote internet links with instructionals on how the radical Left is optimizing the tactics of personal destruction. Letting Beck on FOXNews do it alone is wholly inadequate. Plus, he's not a Republican but an Independent/Libertarian/Conservative. It isn't even his duty to defend the GOP.
I thought of Rules for Radicals this whole time, too. Create chaos. Overwhelm the system. Make it dysfunctional. Administration mired in sidetracks cannot function or respond to constituent needs. Causes a waste resources. Voters get angry and turn on targeted incumbent.
The Right better get its head screwed on quick and study Alinsky's Bible. It's killing the GOP, yet the GOP plods along without making these teachable moments.
The GOP needs to explain in simple form the Alinsky rulebook and how it's being systematically applied. Buy air time if necessary and promote internet links with instructionals on how the radical Left is optimizing the tactics of personal destruction. Letting Beck on FOXNews do it alone is wholly inadequate. Plus, he's not a Republican but an Independent/Libertarian/Conservative. It isn't even his duty to defend the GOP.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 03:13 AM (rZ235)
452
Palin is done.
That was a pretty obvious peace out!
That was a pretty obvious peace out!
Posted by: ErikW at July 05, 2009 03:22 AM (hKtiw)
453
It isn't even his duty to defend the GOP.
Right about that! I dont know if it is part of the famous Fox fair and balanced shtick or not but Beck routinely attacks the Republicans and places them in the same category as the Dems. He makes no difference between the RINOs and the real Republicans either.
Right about that! I dont know if it is part of the famous Fox fair and balanced shtick or not but Beck routinely attacks the Republicans and places them in the same category as the Dems. He makes no difference between the RINOs and the real Republicans either.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 03:23 AM (5ynkO)
454
Amen, Ace. There are way to many moonbat fucktards calling themselves "conservatives" these days.
Posted by: DaveS at July 05, 2009 04:02 AM (VOfg9)
455
Have you, you know, ever read this site before?
Based on your run down of what you see as Ace's positions, I'm pretty sure you haven't.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:12 AM (iTt2X)
Of course. But, now as I think about it, it may have been Dukakis he voted for - or Dukakis and Clinton's first term. Which statement do you disagree with? And, if you don't believe me, ask him.
Based on your run down of what you see as Ace's positions, I'm pretty sure you haven't.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:12 AM (iTt2X)
Of course. But, now as I think about it, it may have been Dukakis he voted for - or Dukakis and Clinton's first term. Which statement do you disagree with? And, if you don't believe me, ask him.
Posted by: nomo at July 05, 2009 04:09 AM (oPemE)
456
If Obama is going to be beatable in '12 people will in no small part blame his poor performance on his thin resume. And our answer to that will be? A woman who quit a little more than halfway into her biggest and pretty much only elected office?That's a hell of a plan.Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:30 AM (iTt2X)
I can understand leaving out her four years on the city council, since that wasn't executive experience... but why leave out her being mayor for six years? She already has more years of executive experience under her belt than Obama will when he's seeking a third term. Not that that matters to the far left, since to them Alaska isn't a real state... Palin could be governor there for decades and they still wouldn't see it as legitimate experience. But being only one vote out of a hundred in the Senate for half a term somehow bestows someone with Presidentialness.
I can understand leaving out her four years on the city council, since that wasn't executive experience... but why leave out her being mayor for six years? She already has more years of executive experience under her belt than Obama will when he's seeking a third term. Not that that matters to the far left, since to them Alaska isn't a real state... Palin could be governor there for decades and they still wouldn't see it as legitimate experience. But being only one vote out of a hundred in the Senate for half a term somehow bestows someone with Presidentialness.
Posted by: Watcher at July 05, 2009 04:26 AM (gMxl2)
457
Right On Anonymous Drivel!
We're way past politics as usual.
This is tribal warfare and the Left is pushing for total annihilation.
They've attacked our camp, slaughtered our guards and stolen our princess.
Like the Trojans took Helen, they've taken our Palin. Unlike Helen who went willingly to Troy, the Left has taken Palin in her sleep. They've beaten her and shamed her, and passed her among the guard to have their way with her. They've murdered her and dismembered her and scattered her parts to the sea. They did this all as we stood watched and they're standing before us still- taunting us and making further threats.
What're ya gonna doooo dog? Bust a move? No?
The difference between the ancient Greeks and us on the right is that the Greeks fought for their women- we navel-gaze and predict shit.
I went to sleep Thursday night in what was still the greatest nation that's ever been; I woke up in a failed state peopled by cowards and battered men.
I'm in this to fight, goddamnit!
Fuck Jonah Goldberg! Fuck him and his "advice" up the ass!
Fuck You Charles Krauthammer! You old curmudgeon!
Fuck anyone who compares Palin supporters to Obama's thug brigades!
Fuck any man who doesn't fight for a woman who's screaming for help!
Fuck the pundits of the conservative blogosphere! You bunch of dickless pricks.
THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT!
Fuck you and get the fuck out of my way.
Right On Anonymous Drivel!
We're way past politics as usual.
This is tribal warfare and the Left is pushing for total annihilation.
They've attacked our camp, slaughtered our guards and stolen our princess.
Like the Trojans took Helen, they've taken our Palin. Unlike Helen who went willingly to Troy, the Left has taken Palin in her sleep. They've beaten her and shamed her, and passed her among the guard to have their way with her. They've murdered her and dismembered her and scattered her parts to the sea. They did this all as we stood watched and they're standing before us still- taunting us and making further threats.
What're ya gonna doooo dog? Bust a move? No?
The difference between the ancient Greeks and us on the right is that the Greeks fought for their women- we navel-gaze and predict shit.
I went to sleep Thursday night in what was still the greatest nation that's ever been; I woke up in a failed state peopled by cowards and battered men.
I'm in this to fight, goddamnit!
Fuck Jonah Goldberg! Fuck him and his "advice" up the ass!
Fuck You Charles Krauthammer! You old curmudgeon!
Fuck anyone who compares Palin supporters to Obama's thug brigades!
Fuck any man who doesn't fight for a woman who's screaming for help!
Fuck the pundits of the conservative blogosphere! You bunch of dickless pricks.
THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT!
Fuck you and get the fuck out of my way.
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 04:26 AM (0cY8h)
458
Awesome link Vic.
I love this part here:
"Yes Saul and those that sat at the feet of Alinsky (ahem the big Zero) must be smug with pride, congratulating themselves at how well their low budget operation [for them] appears to be working.
Well, news flash: dont celebrate too soon. Those bent on destroying Sarah may think they won the war and are busy printing up their mission accomplished banners while screaming quitter! at the top of their lungs. But they may find citizen Sarah a bigger handful than they bargained for. Shes not only on record now as alleviating future monetary attacks on Alaskans by the attack machine, but she is now able to engage the nation while honing federal and intl issues from the lower 48, and free from the Gubernatorial restraints for expense disclosure.
And just wait until a Sarah Palin book comes out can anyone say best seller?"
I love this part here:
"Yes Saul and those that sat at the feet of Alinsky (ahem the big Zero) must be smug with pride, congratulating themselves at how well their low budget operation [for them] appears to be working.
Well, news flash: dont celebrate too soon. Those bent on destroying Sarah may think they won the war and are busy printing up their mission accomplished banners while screaming quitter! at the top of their lungs. But they may find citizen Sarah a bigger handful than they bargained for. Shes not only on record now as alleviating future monetary attacks on Alaskans by the attack machine, but she is now able to engage the nation while honing federal and intl issues from the lower 48, and free from the Gubernatorial restraints for expense disclosure.
And just wait until a Sarah Palin book comes out can anyone say best seller?"
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 04:33 AM (JPEqm)
459
Mary Beth
Yes, that is an awesome site. Back when the economy was tanking and the pols were begging for Tarp I they had the best analysis on the net.
I have it on my list of bookmarked Favs.
Yes, that is an awesome site. Back when the economy was tanking and the pols were begging for Tarp I they had the best analysis on the net.
I have it on my list of bookmarked Favs.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 04:39 AM (5ynkO)
460
I found them originally when I was looking into what Tasergate was all about. They did an insane amount of research on that and laid out for anyone who was willing to see exactly why it was a load of crap.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 04:50 AM (JPEqm)
461
Here's the problem w/ the "Game Over" stuff: If Palin is touring the US doing interviews, holding rallies, raising money, and leading the conservatives in opposing Obama, she'll face more attacks than she would as Gov. of Alaska, especially from the national media.
The alternative explanation is that she's leaving politics. She'll just admit defeat and go home, letting the liberals gloat, and wasting her enormous popularity and influence. Does anybody honestly believe that's her intention? Do you think the question that illicited a "Hell Yeah!" response from her family was whether she should give up?
So she has a plan. I'm sure of that. Six months from now, it'll be clearer. She may lead a conservativerevolution without ever running for office, or storm through the 2012 primaries like Godzilla in high heels. But if you think the game's over... stay tuned.
The alternative explanation is that she's leaving politics. She'll just admit defeat and go home, letting the liberals gloat, and wasting her enormous popularity and influence. Does anybody honestly believe that's her intention? Do you think the question that illicited a "Hell Yeah!" response from her family was whether she should give up?
So she has a plan. I'm sure of that. Six months from now, it'll be clearer. She may lead a conservativerevolution without ever running for office, or storm through the 2012 primaries like Godzilla in high heels. But if you think the game's over... stay tuned.
Posted by: Mr. Wednesday Night at July 05, 2009 05:01 AM (FD3EH)
462
The attacks she is getting while in office in Alaska aren't really about her being governor of Alaska, but a super-scary potential candidate for President.
The state is affected and her ability to be effective IN ALASKA are diminished by people who don't give a hang about Alaska, but want to make sure she has no future in national politics.
So leaving her job may really be the wise choice and the one focused on reality
The charisma and message she has threatens folks on both sides of the isle.
Her support from the base is so strong, but too strong according to the wishes of many on the right, because candidates perceived as more viable or more saleable or flat out more palatable get pushed aside.
The strong desire on the left was/is to leave her as damaged goods, too damaged to be anything but laughed at as a leader. But I'm not sure they can safely claim mission accomplished.
I don't count her out automatically because she has resigned as governor, and you shouldn't either, because her situation was unique, as is her popularity among the base.
The state is affected and her ability to be effective IN ALASKA are diminished by people who don't give a hang about Alaska, but want to make sure she has no future in national politics.
So leaving her job may really be the wise choice and the one focused on reality
The charisma and message she has threatens folks on both sides of the isle.
Her support from the base is so strong, but too strong according to the wishes of many on the right, because candidates perceived as more viable or more saleable or flat out more palatable get pushed aside.
The strong desire on the left was/is to leave her as damaged goods, too damaged to be anything but laughed at as a leader. But I'm not sure they can safely claim mission accomplished.
I don't count her out automatically because she has resigned as governor, and you shouldn't either, because her situation was unique, as is her popularity among the base.
Posted by: SarahW at July 05, 2009 05:05 AM (r/1UT)
463
Like I said: The women (and hermaphrodites) here= Testicular fortitude.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 05:15 AM (JPEqm)
464
Look, we all know she's going to run for higher office. If not in 2012, certainly 2016.
Why
should she stay in Alaska as Governor for another two years, phoning it
in while her attention is elsewhere, on top of all the endless new
ethics charges the Dem's were readying against her which would distract
her even more.
What, you thought they'd stop after baseless ethics complaint #13?
Hardly.
She
hadn't even finished her resignation speech when Dem bloggers and
journalists were hinting she was resigning in the face of a looming
scandal.
If there was anything amiss about this woman, believe me, they'd have found it by now. You think they HAVEN'T been looking?
They
looked and they know now there is nothing to find, but that doesn't
even give them hesitation. If they can convey for the past 9 months -
and the next 2 years, had she remained Governor - that there's
something dirty and corrupt about 'that Palin woman' since she's
always, you know, UNDER INVESTIGATION for one thing or another. Hey
man, where there's smoke there's fire, right?
Mary Maitlan is right. If there is no looming scandal this was a brilliant move on Palin's part.
Now
she's not tied to an elective office where she can be harassed and
toyed with by well-heeled people that are using the courts to keep her
pocketbook empty, drained and in the red.
You are aware, are
you not, that a sitting Governor cleared of an ethics charge gets NO
MONEY in court costs from the people found to have made false charges,
correct?
This is precisely why the Democrats are abusing the
ethic complaint system in Alaska. They have deep pocket backers that
are spending $100,000 in lawyers fees bringing all these frivolous and
fraudulent complaints against this Governor, but they don't care
because they are richer than she is and the object of it is to keep her
broke and pinned down. If they had ever managed to get a conviction out
of one of the false charges, that would have just been GRAVY, but it
wasn't the POINT.
As long as she's sitting Governor with
responsibilities that include NOT being able to countersue people that
file these charges and NOT being able to recoup her court costs, they
had her RIGHT WHERE THEY WANTED HER.
Broke, under a cloud of
suspicion of corruption, so busy fending off their harassment they
could, after a time, begin to claim she was doing a lousy job as
governor because she and her inner circle spend so much time in court!
And
in one move she just took all that away from them. If she does have her
eye on higher office, and she doesn't like the idea of 2 more years of
getting relentlessly harassed by false ethics charges, why not move on?
If the Lt. Governor is capable, if he can run the state as well
as she can, and she's not planning on running for re-election anyway,
why stay there and be a lighting rod for these attacks for 2 more
years?
People who are claiming she wilted under the attacks
are missing the point. She's aware if she runs for President she will
get attacked. Her family will get attacked. She knows this.
What
they are missing is that she could no longer tolerate the KIND of
attacks she was facing in Alaska - where she is forced into court over
and over again, proving herself blameless......and it doesn't mean jack
skit, because here comes the NEXT charge down pike, and again she has
to defend herself, and watch her money shrink.
Because
remember - the strategy is to keep her pinned down and BROKE. Imagine
if she had stayed there until 2012, deep in the red from all these past
and future ethics complaints. She would have been hamstrung.
By
getting out now and turning the tables on her critics and beginning to
answer them as a private citizen who CAN SUE THEM BACK in a court of
law and WIN DAMAGES if she makes her case, she is changing the nature of the game.
And it's smart. Don't listen to the inside the beltway RINO's.
Why
should she stay in Alaska as Governor for another two years, phoning it
in while her attention is elsewhere, on top of all the endless new
ethics charges the Dem's were readying against her which would distract
her even more.
What, you thought they'd stop after baseless ethics complaint #13?
Hardly.
She
hadn't even finished her resignation speech when Dem bloggers and
journalists were hinting she was resigning in the face of a looming
scandal.
If there was anything amiss about this woman, believe me, they'd have found it by now. You think they HAVEN'T been looking?
They
looked and they know now there is nothing to find, but that doesn't
even give them hesitation. If they can convey for the past 9 months -
and the next 2 years, had she remained Governor - that there's
something dirty and corrupt about 'that Palin woman' since she's
always, you know, UNDER INVESTIGATION for one thing or another. Hey
man, where there's smoke there's fire, right?
Mary Maitlan is right. If there is no looming scandal this was a brilliant move on Palin's part.
Now
she's not tied to an elective office where she can be harassed and
toyed with by well-heeled people that are using the courts to keep her
pocketbook empty, drained and in the red.
You are aware, are
you not, that a sitting Governor cleared of an ethics charge gets NO
MONEY in court costs from the people found to have made false charges,
correct?
This is precisely why the Democrats are abusing the
ethic complaint system in Alaska. They have deep pocket backers that
are spending $100,000 in lawyers fees bringing all these frivolous and
fraudulent complaints against this Governor, but they don't care
because they are richer than she is and the object of it is to keep her
broke and pinned down. If they had ever managed to get a conviction out
of one of the false charges, that would have just been GRAVY, but it
wasn't the POINT.
As long as she's sitting Governor with
responsibilities that include NOT being able to countersue people that
file these charges and NOT being able to recoup her court costs, they
had her RIGHT WHERE THEY WANTED HER.
Broke, under a cloud of
suspicion of corruption, so busy fending off their harassment they
could, after a time, begin to claim she was doing a lousy job as
governor because she and her inner circle spend so much time in court!
And
in one move she just took all that away from them. If she does have her
eye on higher office, and she doesn't like the idea of 2 more years of
getting relentlessly harassed by false ethics charges, why not move on?
If the Lt. Governor is capable, if he can run the state as well
as she can, and she's not planning on running for re-election anyway,
why stay there and be a lighting rod for these attacks for 2 more
years?
People who are claiming she wilted under the attacks
are missing the point. She's aware if she runs for President she will
get attacked. Her family will get attacked. She knows this.
What
they are missing is that she could no longer tolerate the KIND of
attacks she was facing in Alaska - where she is forced into court over
and over again, proving herself blameless......and it doesn't mean jack
skit, because here comes the NEXT charge down pike, and again she has
to defend herself, and watch her money shrink.
Because
remember - the strategy is to keep her pinned down and BROKE. Imagine
if she had stayed there until 2012, deep in the red from all these past
and future ethics complaints. She would have been hamstrung.
By
getting out now and turning the tables on her critics and beginning to
answer them as a private citizen who CAN SUE THEM BACK in a court of
law and WIN DAMAGES if she makes her case, she is changing the nature of the game.
And it's smart. Don't listen to the inside the beltway RINO's.
Posted by: manofaiki at July 05, 2009 05:23 AM (uSh7j)
465
Actually filing these spurious ethics complaints in AK costs them NOTHING. That is the big problem.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 05:51 AM (5ynkO)
466
Tasergate
Having forgotten what that was, I googled it and after seeing the first result on the top of the page, I instantly remembered. My memory of that had been buried under the mountain of faux outrage, bogus scandals and vicious personal attacks directed at Sarah Palin and her family from the Left and the Right in the months since then. Tasergate was back in September. Not so many moons ago, but a whole mountain of shit.
Has anyone actually tallied up the number of attacks on this woman since the announcement of her nomination last August? A concrete number might put her recent decision in perspective.
What I think some people don't yet comprehend is that this is no longer simply about Sarah Palin. It never really was about her specifically. Just as it was never about Bush specifically. Or Limbaugh and so on. This is about the complete and total destruction of any person or group that stands in the way of the Leftist assault and anyone who incurs the wrath of the cabal that's just seized power.
I shake my head when I hear or read someone predicting an attempt by Obama to stage a Chavez-style seizure of power here in America-
dudes... he already has. And Obama is not Chavez-Lite. Chavez is Obama-Lite.
Think about what's just been done to Sarah Palin. Google the word "Kulak". Read up on what you find and picture Orwell's image of the boot stomping on a head for eternity, while you do that.
Palin's present is our future if we don't get a clue and fight while there's still a chance.
Now- Pundit nose off. Combat boots on.
And let's see if we're all good enough shots to send our bullets to those firing at us and not the ones leading our charge.
Tasergate
Having forgotten what that was, I googled it and after seeing the first result on the top of the page, I instantly remembered. My memory of that had been buried under the mountain of faux outrage, bogus scandals and vicious personal attacks directed at Sarah Palin and her family from the Left and the Right in the months since then. Tasergate was back in September. Not so many moons ago, but a whole mountain of shit.
Has anyone actually tallied up the number of attacks on this woman since the announcement of her nomination last August? A concrete number might put her recent decision in perspective.
What I think some people don't yet comprehend is that this is no longer simply about Sarah Palin. It never really was about her specifically. Just as it was never about Bush specifically. Or Limbaugh and so on. This is about the complete and total destruction of any person or group that stands in the way of the Leftist assault and anyone who incurs the wrath of the cabal that's just seized power.
I shake my head when I hear or read someone predicting an attempt by Obama to stage a Chavez-style seizure of power here in America-
dudes... he already has. And Obama is not Chavez-Lite. Chavez is Obama-Lite.
Think about what's just been done to Sarah Palin. Google the word "Kulak". Read up on what you find and picture Orwell's image of the boot stomping on a head for eternity, while you do that.
Palin's present is our future if we don't get a clue and fight while there's still a chance.
Now- Pundit nose off. Combat boots on.
And let's see if we're all good enough shots to send our bullets to those firing at us and not the ones leading our charge.
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 05:52 AM (0cY8h)
467
Sartana...read the link Vic posted.
The first part highlights the Alinsky tactics used on Palin. The second part details the ethics charges and the players making things happen.
It is a must read for anyone wanting to take a stand. We need to know what we're up against.
The first part highlights the Alinsky tactics used on Palin. The second part details the ethics charges and the players making things happen.
It is a must read for anyone wanting to take a stand. We need to know what we're up against.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 05:59 AM (JPEqm)
468
Mary Beth
I had it bookmarked to read first thing my head cleared up tomorrow- the sipping of aguardiente has rapidly taken precedence over any reading I had planned for tonight. I'm very much familiar with Alinsky and his methods, although I hadn't before read anything going into detail on what Obama's people have been up to in Alaska. I would also urge people to read the works of Robert Conquest- his books The Great Terror and Harvest of Sorrow are eerily prescient. And right now I'm not feeling so alarmist in believing that.
Let me also say, that I'm first generation Serbian American. I've studied well the recent and ancient history of that region. A couple years ago, I spent a year travelling around former Yugoslavia and Albania. The bombed-out and bullet-ridden shells of homes are now and will always be fresh in my mind with the nausea I feel in the pit of my stomach when I remember. I've asked myself if the divisions that exist there that caused such horror could ever grow as deep here among our people. And I feel as if I've been slipping from waking day into nightmare, because I've come to think that it might be that the divisions are even deeper and wider that separate us here in America.
Truly, I've been thrown for a loop since Friday- nervous and irritible and chain-smoking which I never do. I wasn't sure what I felt until reading through this thread tonight. And now I realize that it's not pity, or sorrow or disappointment- but cold terror.
If such evil as was directed at this woman and her family can go unopposed, this slaughter unavenged, then what next? Who next. Evil, once made flesh, doesn't just die out or go away and Justice doesn't come floating down from heaven but must be fought for and won. Where's the fight? Where have the men gone? What has been going on in this country is nothing to play with or take lightly.
Robert Conquest makes the point in the introduction to The Great Terror that it's difficult for people from well-ordered democratic societies to imagine that the reigns of power could be seized by common criminals. How much has happened recently that we could never have imagined? We better start wondering.
I know, we all know it can never happen here. But it happens. Yeah right, gird your loins.
Mary Beth
I had it bookmarked to read first thing my head cleared up tomorrow- the sipping of aguardiente has rapidly taken precedence over any reading I had planned for tonight. I'm very much familiar with Alinsky and his methods, although I hadn't before read anything going into detail on what Obama's people have been up to in Alaska. I would also urge people to read the works of Robert Conquest- his books The Great Terror and Harvest of Sorrow are eerily prescient. And right now I'm not feeling so alarmist in believing that.
Let me also say, that I'm first generation Serbian American. I've studied well the recent and ancient history of that region. A couple years ago, I spent a year travelling around former Yugoslavia and Albania. The bombed-out and bullet-ridden shells of homes are now and will always be fresh in my mind with the nausea I feel in the pit of my stomach when I remember. I've asked myself if the divisions that exist there that caused such horror could ever grow as deep here among our people. And I feel as if I've been slipping from waking day into nightmare, because I've come to think that it might be that the divisions are even deeper and wider that separate us here in America.
Truly, I've been thrown for a loop since Friday- nervous and irritible and chain-smoking which I never do. I wasn't sure what I felt until reading through this thread tonight. And now I realize that it's not pity, or sorrow or disappointment- but cold terror.
If such evil as was directed at this woman and her family can go unopposed, this slaughter unavenged, then what next? Who next. Evil, once made flesh, doesn't just die out or go away and Justice doesn't come floating down from heaven but must be fought for and won. Where's the fight? Where have the men gone? What has been going on in this country is nothing to play with or take lightly.
Robert Conquest makes the point in the introduction to The Great Terror that it's difficult for people from well-ordered democratic societies to imagine that the reigns of power could be seized by common criminals. How much has happened recently that we could never have imagined? We better start wondering.
I know, we all know it can never happen here. But it happens. Yeah right, gird your loins.
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 07:07 AM (0cY8h)
469
Posted by: ace at July 04, 2009 05:18 PM (gEsIJ)She didn't quit
because she "couldn't take the heat". She quit because she spent 80%
of her time dealing with frivolous ethics complaints filed by worthless
pieces of shit. She didn't think it was fair to Alaskans, and thought
it would be in everyone's best interests for her to resign. She should
be commended for putting her state's interests ahead of her own
political ambitions. So stop being a cockholster.
She actually didn't tell us her reason for leaving office, really. Good news, though! I was reading my tarrot cards this morning and it told me that she decided to leave her position as governor because she plans on filling the void Michael Jackson has created with his untimely death. She took a look at the (wo)man in the mirror and decided she's gonna make a change, for once in her life. She sees the kids in the street with not enough to eat. And who is she to be blind? Pretending not to see their needs. This is why she is starting with the (wo)man in the mirror. She is asking her to change her ways. Because no message could have been any clearer. If you want to make the world a better place, you have to look at your self and make a CHANGE.
Now, I am going back to my tarrot cards to determine if Ace is really a Democrat pretending to be a Republican so he can demoralize the party from within or if he is just a cockhulster. I shall return later with my results.
tink
because she "couldn't take the heat". She quit because she spent 80%
of her time dealing with frivolous ethics complaints filed by worthless
pieces of shit. She didn't think it was fair to Alaskans, and thought
it would be in everyone's best interests for her to resign. She should
be commended for putting her state's interests ahead of her own
political ambitions. So stop being a cockholster.
She actually didn't tell us her reason for leaving office, really. Good news, though! I was reading my tarrot cards this morning and it told me that she decided to leave her position as governor because she plans on filling the void Michael Jackson has created with his untimely death. She took a look at the (wo)man in the mirror and decided she's gonna make a change, for once in her life. She sees the kids in the street with not enough to eat. And who is she to be blind? Pretending not to see their needs. This is why she is starting with the (wo)man in the mirror. She is asking her to change her ways. Because no message could have been any clearer. If you want to make the world a better place, you have to look at your self and make a CHANGE.
Now, I am going back to my tarrot cards to determine if Ace is really a Democrat pretending to be a Republican so he can demoralize the party from within or if he is just a cockhulster. I shall return later with my results.
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 09:13 AM (pLs/O)
470
Old thread but we may have seen a preview of what's in store yesterday. The Palins released a statement that they are looking into legal action against the lefty blogs and the state-run media (what's the difference?) for publishing rumors about an impending indictment on embezzlement charges. What I read into that is (1) the rumors are false, (2) Sarah is going to fight back against the Dems politics of personal destruction, and (3) she probably doesn't give a shit about running for president in 2012.
Posted by: Reiver at July 05, 2009 09:22 AM (DYgRX)
471
..she probably doesn't give a shit about running for president in 2012.
Which is the bone that Ace and DrewM don't seem to want to let go of.
All of their arguments are based on what they perceive as 'she's screwed herself for a 2012 presidential run.' I've read almost every post here regarding this since she made her announcement on Friday. I'd say MAYBE 25% of the posters are positing she did this to run in 2012...the rest are either 'she's got something else in mind and we'll just have to wait and see.' or trolls.
Not sure why they're so vehemently arguing with the minority here...but whatever...it's the internet afterall.
Which is the bone that Ace and DrewM don't seem to want to let go of.
All of their arguments are based on what they perceive as 'she's screwed herself for a 2012 presidential run.' I've read almost every post here regarding this since she made her announcement on Friday. I'd say MAYBE 25% of the posters are positing she did this to run in 2012...the rest are either 'she's got something else in mind and we'll just have to wait and see.' or trolls.
Not sure why they're so vehemently arguing with the minority here...but whatever...it's the internet afterall.
Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 09:43 AM (VuLos)
472
After digesting the multitude of opinions on the resignation over the past two days, I'll just say this. As discouraging as it was to read the posts saying she killed her national political career, and as much as I didn't want to hear it, there certainly is validity in that opinion. It warmed my heart and gave me hope to listen to Mark Levin on Friday night hearing his certainty that she is running for POTUS and freeing up her schedule to campaign and fund-raise. It's another opinion with validity.
With these two equally valid opinions, why are we hearing so much "I'm right, you're wrong" rhetoric on the blogs? No one knows for sure what she is up to, so all we're running on is speculation. So let's cheerfully speculate while respecting differing opinions. To see bombastic and inflammatory attacks on conservative pundits coming in from....conservatives, is sad. Tone it down, breath deep and remember we are all speculating at this point.
I appreciate the true-believers in Sarah. Honestly I'd much rather have belief in a hopeful future for Sarah than pessimism and political suicide talk. But please don't denigrate and attack those that don't share your belief: especially fellow conservatives. No one knows exactly what her motives are, or what is going to happen in the future regardless of her motives.
That being said, it would be nice to have a little more optimism from our blog proprietors or maybe stronger disclaimers that their opinions are in fact just opinions and the future for Sarah is yet to be written. Otherwise if you start leveling the statements of, "it's over," you're playing into the MSM's public opinion shaping strategy against Palin. The meme could build steam and then people may write her off as finished, and hence we have a self-fulfilling prophecy, just as the MSM wants.
With these two equally valid opinions, why are we hearing so much "I'm right, you're wrong" rhetoric on the blogs? No one knows for sure what she is up to, so all we're running on is speculation. So let's cheerfully speculate while respecting differing opinions. To see bombastic and inflammatory attacks on conservative pundits coming in from....conservatives, is sad. Tone it down, breath deep and remember we are all speculating at this point.
I appreciate the true-believers in Sarah. Honestly I'd much rather have belief in a hopeful future for Sarah than pessimism and political suicide talk. But please don't denigrate and attack those that don't share your belief: especially fellow conservatives. No one knows exactly what her motives are, or what is going to happen in the future regardless of her motives.
That being said, it would be nice to have a little more optimism from our blog proprietors or maybe stronger disclaimers that their opinions are in fact just opinions and the future for Sarah is yet to be written. Otherwise if you start leveling the statements of, "it's over," you're playing into the MSM's public opinion shaping strategy against Palin. The meme could build steam and then people may write her off as finished, and hence we have a self-fulfilling prophecy, just as the MSM wants.
Posted by: 7he7th7rumpet at July 05, 2009 09:47 AM (5piAn)
473
but why leave out her being mayor for six years? She already has more
years of executive experience under her belt than Obama will when he's
seeking a third term.
Posted by: Watcher at July 05, 2009 04:26 AM (gMxl2)
Because I don't see being Mayor of Wasilla as particularly relevant to being President.
Governor of Alaska? Yes.
Wasilla? Sorry, not so much.
Please tell me that Obama 3rd term was a joke. Obama's almost 6 months in office is more executive experience than 6 years as mayor. It's not a one for one thing. There's a bit of a quality differential between the two positions, no?
years of executive experience under her belt than Obama will when he's
seeking a third term.
Posted by: Watcher at July 05, 2009 04:26 AM (gMxl2)
Because I don't see being Mayor of Wasilla as particularly relevant to being President.
Governor of Alaska? Yes.
Wasilla? Sorry, not so much.
Please tell me that Obama 3rd term was a joke. Obama's almost 6 months in office is more executive experience than 6 years as mayor. It's not a one for one thing. There's a bit of a quality differential between the two positions, no?
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 09:51 AM (iTt2X)
474
Actually filing these spurious ethics complaints in AK costs them NOTHING. That is the big problem.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 05:51 AM (5ynkO)
Hey, you know who took credit for the ethics reform package that caused this mess? Sarah Palin.
You know how I know? She did it in her speech on Friday, several times in fact.
So she deserves no criticism for backing a craptastic bill?
Frankly, the fact that she's not sticking around as Governor to try and fix such a dangerous problem that she, by her own admission, had a hand in creating is not impressive to me.
Actually filing these spurious ethics complaints in AK costs them NOTHING. That is the big problem.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 05:51 AM (5ynkO)
Hey, you know who took credit for the ethics reform package that caused this mess? Sarah Palin.
You know how I know? She did it in her speech on Friday, several times in fact.
So she deserves no criticism for backing a craptastic bill?
Frankly, the fact that she's not sticking around as Governor to try and fix such a dangerous problem that she, by her own admission, had a hand in creating is not impressive to me.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 09:54 AM (iTt2X)
475
Hey, you know who took credit for the ethics reform package that caused this mess? Sarah Palin.
Yes, Drew she was the mover behind getting that law passed, or at least initiating the start of getting it. I am sure the legislature had a lot to do with writing it in its current fashion as a means to kill anyone they didnt like.
One other thing to keep in mind, she started that law long before she was picked for VP and she most likely didnt think of national implications for it.
And no, I have never said she was perfect. She just beats the shit out of anything else we have up on the GOP counter now.
That is why the Dems and the squishies are out to kill her.
Yes, Drew she was the mover behind getting that law passed, or at least initiating the start of getting it. I am sure the legislature had a lot to do with writing it in its current fashion as a means to kill anyone they didnt like.
One other thing to keep in mind, she started that law long before she was picked for VP and she most likely didnt think of national implications for it.
And no, I have never said she was perfect. She just beats the shit out of anything else we have up on the GOP counter now.
That is why the Dems and the squishies are out to kill her.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 10:32 AM (5ynkO)
476
She's finished and it was fun watching Bill Kristol Meth this morning on Fox News. They guy is crushed. Heartbroken. He always looked at her as another Bush. Someone willing to launch a crusade in the Middle East. Yes Ace, the reason the Republican party is on the ropes and some radical is sitting in the White House is because the NeoCons drove this car over the cliff.
Posted by: William R at July 05, 2009 10:45 AM (m2L69)
477
Ace, Ron Paul
might not be the only true Conservative, but their numbers are getting smaller
all the time.
Republicans have lost identityhttp://tiny.cc/UsJpd
Back
in the heat of the Cold War when people were building bomb shelters a Republican
President speaks.
http://tiny.cc/JWz1C
might not be the only true Conservative, but their numbers are getting smaller
all the time.
Republicans have lost identityhttp://tiny.cc/UsJpd
Back
in the heat of the Cold War when people were building bomb shelters a Republican
President speaks.
http://tiny.cc/JWz1C
Posted by: William R at July 05, 2009 10:58 AM (m2L69)
478
She just beats the shit out of anything else we have up on the GOP counter now.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 10:32 AM (5ynkO)
Therein lies the rub. Not agreeing with that statement at this point in time is not heresy nor is it a sign one is a RINO. Unfortunately, too many Palin supporters don't see it that way.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 10:32 AM (5ynkO)
Therein lies the rub. Not agreeing with that statement at this point in time is not heresy nor is it a sign one is a RINO. Unfortunately, too many Palin supporters don't see it that way.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 10:58 AM (iTt2X)
479
What's with you Drew? Everytime someone posts something you disagree with, you're there on the spot pissing on it. You''re like Ace's little attack dog.
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 11:01 AM (d3dk0)
480
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 11:01 AM (d3dk0)
Or since I'm stuck in the house today, I'm doing people the courtesy of replying to them when they address a comment to me by name?
Or since I'm stuck in the house today, I'm doing people the courtesy of replying to them when they address a comment to me by name?
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 11:03 AM (iTt2X)
481
Nobody's addressing you by "name" dude....chill out!
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 11:08 AM (d3dk0)
482
OK....Vic and Watcher did....I'm being hyper-sensitive after all that crap last night. My bad........
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 11:12 AM (d3dk0)
483
Therein lies the rub. Not agreeing with that statement at this point in time is not heresy nor is it a sign one is a RINO.
It depends on who you think is better. If you think a RINO is better, then it makes you at least a supporter of a RINO. I think, and I may be mistaken, that Ace is a supporter of Romney. Romney is a liberal therefore a RINO.
I dont know who you support.
It depends on who you think is better. If you think a RINO is better, then it makes you at least a supporter of a RINO. I think, and I may be mistaken, that Ace is a supporter of Romney. Romney is a liberal therefore a RINO.
I dont know who you support.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 11:19 AM (5ynkO)
484
The thing is: who is the better candidate? Romney, the guy who couldn't even beat John McCain, the guy who gives DemSMers hardons at the prospect of sneering over his "magic underwear" for two years?
I guess I can understand someone saying "I don't know if Palin is the one," but I don't get someone saying "I'm sure she isn't the one."
It certainly doesn't help when Palin gets crapped on by people like Allahpundit given that his priorities seem, to me, to be somewhere on the other side of crazy himself. For example, yesterday on Twitter he mentioned liking Hunstman for '12 before he became an Ambassador.
What did he state was his big reason for liking Hunstman? That Hunstman wasn't "cowed" by Limbaugh.
That's what we're supposed to be looking for? Someone who's going to stand up to Rush Limbaugh, a guy who only criticizes Republicans when they aren't conservative!?! Someone needs to stand up to that!?!
Oy vey.
I guess I can understand someone saying "I don't know if Palin is the one," but I don't get someone saying "I'm sure she isn't the one."
It certainly doesn't help when Palin gets crapped on by people like Allahpundit given that his priorities seem, to me, to be somewhere on the other side of crazy himself. For example, yesterday on Twitter he mentioned liking Hunstman for '12 before he became an Ambassador.
What did he state was his big reason for liking Hunstman? That Hunstman wasn't "cowed" by Limbaugh.
That's what we're supposed to be looking for? Someone who's going to stand up to Rush Limbaugh, a guy who only criticizes Republicans when they aren't conservative!?! Someone needs to stand up to that!?!
Oy vey.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:25 AM (ZqTlA)
485
I dont know who you support.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 11:19 AM (5ynkO)
At this point, less than 6 months into Obama's term, no one.
I was interested in Sanford, now not so much.
I was interested in seeing if Palin improved from last year and how some of her positions (like immigration) would shake out once she was free of having to back stop McCain. I'd still be willing to support her but this move gives me pause and will be an additional hurdle in my mind should she run.
Of the people who didn't run last time who might get in and I'd be very interested in...Jindal and Barbour are probably at the top of that list.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 11:19 AM (5ynkO)
At this point, less than 6 months into Obama's term, no one.
I was interested in Sanford, now not so much.
I was interested in seeing if Palin improved from last year and how some of her positions (like immigration) would shake out once she was free of having to back stop McCain. I'd still be willing to support her but this move gives me pause and will be an additional hurdle in my mind should she run.
Of the people who didn't run last time who might get in and I'd be very interested in...Jindal and Barbour are probably at the top of that list.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 11:27 AM (iTt2X)
486
This also is why I think passions run so high on this issue. We are battling over the soul of the Republican Party. Will it be a permanent version of Demo-Lite searching for that mythological undecided voter while abandoning core principles or will it return to core values of small government and individual freedom?
It is not just a Sarah Palin thing, but what she represents. Most of us conservatives feel like we have been abandoned since Reagan left office. And we are about ready to tell the elites to find another set of suckers.
It is not just a Sarah Palin thing, but what she represents. Most of us conservatives feel like we have been abandoned since Reagan left office. And we are about ready to tell the elites to find another set of suckers.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 11:28 AM (5ynkO)
487
Here'sa prcis of anti-Palin reports and rumours from the election season debunked.
And shouldn't you be busy writing letters-to-the-editor, William R, about how the Jews neocons are destroying Ameica by putting fluoride in the water?
BTW,William R, here's a Canadian who also supports Ron Paul. Of course, he's been cheering for American military deaths for the past 9 years; been making excuses for Islam, radical and otherwise; oh, and he was in favour of U.S. intervention over the past 20 years to protect Muslims, like in Kosovo. So maybe we are doing what the Jews tell us to do, Will,but tell me, what does it feel like to do what the Muslims tell you to do?
And shouldn't you be busy writing letters-to-the-editor, William R, about how the Jews neocons are destroying Ameica by putting fluoride in the water?
BTW,William R, here's a Canadian who also supports Ron Paul. Of course, he's been cheering for American military deaths for the past 9 years; been making excuses for Islam, radical and otherwise; oh, and he was in favour of U.S. intervention over the past 20 years to protect Muslims, like in Kosovo. So maybe we are doing what the Jews tell us to do, Will,but tell me, what does it feel like to do what the Muslims tell you to do?
Posted by: andycanuck at July 05, 2009 11:35 AM (xmEXV)
488
Yeah, six years as mayor of Wasilla wasn't important experience. I mean it's what, a little snowbilly outpost in Alaska where the main pastime is probably ice fishing. I'll bet they don't even have electricity!
Seriously, you actually believe that running a rather large town doesn't count as experience? What exactly does count as experience in your world? Oh -- a few months as a senator in DC. I... see.
Seriously, you actually believe that running a rather large town doesn't count as experience? What exactly does count as experience in your world? Oh -- a few months as a senator in DC. I... see.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 11:36 AM (Yi1WZ)
489
Oh God, the RuPaulites have entered the fray. For God's sakes, don't let them in the liquor cabinet -- you know they can't handle booze.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 11:38 AM (Yi1WZ)
490
Even if being Mayor of Wasilla is inconsequential, the fact that such a Mayor was able to springboard herself into the Governor's office remains very impressive to me.
And even though she's pulling out early, her accomplishments as Governor impress me. I'm willing to think outside the box on this, especially given how unimpressive the rest of the current crop of GOP "hopefuls" is.
And even though she's pulling out early, her accomplishments as Governor impress me. I'm willing to think outside the box on this, especially given how unimpressive the rest of the current crop of GOP "hopefuls" is.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:39 AM (ZqTlA)
491
Vic@496:"We are battling over
the soul of the Republican Party. Will it be a permanent version of
Demo-Lite searching for that mythological undecided voter while
abandoning core principles or will it return to core values of small
government and individual freedom?"
If the priority is finding someone who will stand up to Rush Limbaugh, I fear it's the former rather than the latter.
In which case, hey, why not just cut the chase and just run David Frum?
the soul of the Republican Party. Will it be a permanent version of
Demo-Lite searching for that mythological undecided voter while
abandoning core principles or will it return to core values of small
government and individual freedom?"
If the priority is finding someone who will stand up to Rush Limbaugh, I fear it's the former rather than the latter.
In which case, hey, why not just cut the chase and just run David Frum?
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:41 AM (ZqTlA)
492
That's Doctor RuPaul to you, Andrea.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:43 AM (ZqTlA)
493
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 11:01 AM (d3dk0)
Even though Drew and I disagree, I enjoy the fact that the bloggers here are actively participating. You hardly see this anywhere else, and sometimes you want answers to your questions as to WHY your favorite people are taking you to task.
You know Ace got really pissy yesterday and admitted he was being a baby. At least he isn't banning people or closing off comments, the fact that it lets him get riled up speaks volumes on what he thinks is "robust debate."
I'll say it again, I'm just disappointed that Ace sees this as a black and white issue. That she is just finished. Drew or Russ, sorry cant remember who it was, said they could write something but they just wouldnt believe it so why write it. Is that the litmus test to making observations? During the Iran elections didn't AoSHQ "speculate" A LOT as to what could happen, should happen even though some of the events were likely NOT to happen? Just a shame I had to go to CNN, yes CNN, and watch video of a roundtable of DEMOCRATS that actually thought that only time will tell what effect this might have on her future in politics.
Again, its not my blog so I will never call Ace or anyone else a RINO because they have all proven to me time and again their conservative creds.
Even though Drew and I disagree, I enjoy the fact that the bloggers here are actively participating. You hardly see this anywhere else, and sometimes you want answers to your questions as to WHY your favorite people are taking you to task.
You know Ace got really pissy yesterday and admitted he was being a baby. At least he isn't banning people or closing off comments, the fact that it lets him get riled up speaks volumes on what he thinks is "robust debate."
I'll say it again, I'm just disappointed that Ace sees this as a black and white issue. That she is just finished. Drew or Russ, sorry cant remember who it was, said they could write something but they just wouldnt believe it so why write it. Is that the litmus test to making observations? During the Iran elections didn't AoSHQ "speculate" A LOT as to what could happen, should happen even though some of the events were likely NOT to happen? Just a shame I had to go to CNN, yes CNN, and watch video of a roundtable of DEMOCRATS that actually thought that only time will tell what effect this might have on her future in politics.
Again, its not my blog so I will never call Ace or anyone else a RINO because they have all proven to me time and again their conservative creds.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 11:46 AM (yAqqi)
494
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 05, 2009 11:36 AM (Yi1WZ)
Do you think Charlie Bumpus, Harold Newcombe, John Stein, Dianne Keller
and Verne Rupright are also qualified to be President by virtue of
having been Mayor of Wasilla?
It's a town of 5,000 people and the job is part time. So no, I don't think that's very relevant experience for being President.
Being Governor of Alaska? Yes, that's extremely relevant. Unfortunately, by her own choice that experience has now been limited.
As for Obama's experience, as I've said here and elsewhere many times,
it was woefully inadequate. I don't buy the idea that because Obama was
ill-prepared (with predictably disastrous results) that frees
Republicans from putting up well qualified and experienced
alternatives.
BTW-experience was one of my critiques of Fred. a couple of years as
Senator and many as a DC lobbyist wasn't that impressive. Mitt had the
best resume but other glaring problems, so resume isn't everything but
it's something.
Do you think Charlie Bumpus, Harold Newcombe, John Stein, Dianne Keller
and Verne Rupright are also qualified to be President by virtue of
having been Mayor of Wasilla?
It's a town of 5,000 people and the job is part time. So no, I don't think that's very relevant experience for being President.
Being Governor of Alaska? Yes, that's extremely relevant. Unfortunately, by her own choice that experience has now been limited.
As for Obama's experience, as I've said here and elsewhere many times,
it was woefully inadequate. I don't buy the idea that because Obama was
ill-prepared (with predictably disastrous results) that frees
Republicans from putting up well qualified and experienced
alternatives.
BTW-experience was one of my critiques of Fred. a couple of years as
Senator and many as a DC lobbyist wasn't that impressive. Mitt had the
best resume but other glaring problems, so resume isn't everything but
it's something.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 11:48 AM (iTt2X)
495
Jindal is still interesting to me, but that awful speech he gave earlier this year was probably as dispiriting to me as Sarah Palin has been to some of her critics.
If he steps up his game, I'll keep an open mind, but unless he has a brilliant way of knocking it off the table, I'm not going to be interested in defending him over and over and over on the inevitable exorcism smears for two solid years (or however long his campaign lasts). You have to know that potentially that's all anyone will ever talk about, starting with Huck and continuing through to Olbermann.
If he steps up his game, I'll keep an open mind, but unless he has a brilliant way of knocking it off the table, I'm not going to be interested in defending him over and over and over on the inevitable exorcism smears for two solid years (or however long his campaign lasts). You have to know that potentially that's all anyone will ever talk about, starting with Huck and continuing through to Olbermann.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:49 AM (ZqTlA)
496
If the priority is finding someone who will stand up to Rush Limbaugh, I fear it's the former rather than the latter.
Everything I have seen from the elites in the party points to the former. All of these phony baloney town hall meetings, a Chairman who refuses to even discuss sanctions against Republicans who always vote with the other side, and who instead attacks conservative commentators. None of those give me a warm fuzzy.
When you add that to the fact that they havent even made any noises about fixing the rules it spells doom. Hell, even if I was one of the squishies and agreed with the elites on their liberal philosophy, they are dooming themselves to permanent defeat by the way they run the primaries and the way they constantly practice cannibalism.
It seems that the new paradigm is Rs lose except when the Ds run a candidate that makes voters puke when they pull the lever.
Everything I have seen from the elites in the party points to the former. All of these phony baloney town hall meetings, a Chairman who refuses to even discuss sanctions against Republicans who always vote with the other side, and who instead attacks conservative commentators. None of those give me a warm fuzzy.
When you add that to the fact that they havent even made any noises about fixing the rules it spells doom. Hell, even if I was one of the squishies and agreed with the elites on their liberal philosophy, they are dooming themselves to permanent defeat by the way they run the primaries and the way they constantly practice cannibalism.
It seems that the new paradigm is Rs lose except when the Ds run a candidate that makes voters puke when they pull the lever.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 11:49 AM (5ynkO)
497
One more thing, I was trying to come up with an analogy as to why us Palin fans are so passionate when OUR side won't give her the benefit of the doubt and I came up with this:
"Its like when your girlfriend dumps you as a kid and you run home to mom for some consolation and hug her and hope she tells you that it will be alright and she was a good woman but you have to move on then all of a sudden your mom slaps you and says "What are you upset about? She was a fucking whore anyway!"
I don't you to tell me she was a fucking whore, I want you to tell me that she will come BACK to me.
"Its like when your girlfriend dumps you as a kid and you run home to mom for some consolation and hug her and hope she tells you that it will be alright and she was a good woman but you have to move on then all of a sudden your mom slaps you and says "What are you upset about? She was a fucking whore anyway!"
I don't you to tell me she was a fucking whore, I want you to tell me that she will come BACK to me.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 11:51 AM (yAqqi)
498
"You know Ace got really pissy yesterday and admitted he was being a
baby. At least he isn't banning people or closing off comments, the
fact that it lets him get riled up speaks volumes on what he thinks is
"robust debate."
+1,000
Ace is a good guy, and he continues to be my favorite blogger, even when I vehemently disagree with him, like now.
I just hate the fact that, if Palin manages to thrive after her actions on Friday, he won't have helped. He will be on the outside of that.
baby. At least he isn't banning people or closing off comments, the
fact that it lets him get riled up speaks volumes on what he thinks is
"robust debate."
+1,000
Ace is a good guy, and he continues to be my favorite blogger, even when I vehemently disagree with him, like now.
I just hate the fact that, if Palin manages to thrive after her actions on Friday, he won't have helped. He will be on the outside of that.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:52 AM (ZqTlA)
499
Please tell me that Obama 3rd term was a joke. Obama's almost 6 months in office is more executive experience than 6 years as mayor. It's not a one for one thing. There's a bit of a quality differential between the two positions, no?Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 09:51 AM (iTt2X)
Yes, it was a joke... but I won't be too surprised if at some point there is a serious push to repeal the 22nd amendment.
I know it isn't a one to one thing, not saying it was... just pointing out that not only did Obama have NONE when he was elected, but Palin technically already has more years of executive experience than he will have when he leaves office.
I don't see why three years of being one vote out of a hundred in the Senate for three years is treated as such a great thing on Obama's resume, especially when he spent much of that time campaigning for President anyway... yet being mayor for six years somehow counts as nothing. And now I guess because it wasn't the full four years, her time as Governor somehow counts as nothing too?
Yes, it was a joke... but I won't be too surprised if at some point there is a serious push to repeal the 22nd amendment.
I know it isn't a one to one thing, not saying it was... just pointing out that not only did Obama have NONE when he was elected, but Palin technically already has more years of executive experience than he will have when he leaves office.
I don't see why three years of being one vote out of a hundred in the Senate for three years is treated as such a great thing on Obama's resume, especially when he spent much of that time campaigning for President anyway... yet being mayor for six years somehow counts as nothing. And now I guess because it wasn't the full four years, her time as Governor somehow counts as nothing too?
Posted by: Watcher at July 05, 2009 11:54 AM (vGTPA)
500
Vic, I never thought the day would come when I'd feel such hostility toward the Republican Party as a whole. I don't believe in the viability of third parties as anything other than spoilers, and lord knows I will not become a Democrat, but for the first time since becoming a Republican in 1994, I'm tempted to switch my affiliation to Independent until they get their act together again.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:56 AM (ZqTlA)
501
Jindal is still interesting to me, but that awful speech he gave earlier this year was probably as dispiriting to me as Sarah Palin has been to some of her critics.
Right now I just dont know enough about Jindal. Back when they were making predictions about the VP I did research Palin and liked what I saw. I honestly thought McCain was going to pick that AH Graham which would have at least got the SOB out of my State. That alone would have been enough to vote for McCain besides being the once again lesser of two evils choice.
One wonders if Graham got pissed because he didnt get his pay-back.
Right now I just dont know enough about Jindal. Back when they were making predictions about the VP I did research Palin and liked what I saw. I honestly thought McCain was going to pick that AH Graham which would have at least got the SOB out of my State. That alone would have been enough to vote for McCain besides being the once again lesser of two evils choice.
One wonders if Graham got pissed because he didnt get his pay-back.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 11:58 AM (5ynkO)
502
Even though Drew and I disagree, I enjoy the fact that the bloggers here are actively participating
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 11:46 AM (yAqqi)
One of the things that I think may create an issue when I get involved in these topics is I forget some people consider me a blogger here.
I'm a commenter. I work by myself for the most part so this place was
my virtual water cooler. I used to send Ace some tips and I assume he just got
sick of having read my emails and decided to basically say, "just post
this shit yourself and leave me alone".
The long time denizens of the place know this but I forget that traffic has grown so much in the last year, there are a lot of people who only know me, Dave, Gabe and the rest as people who can post on the front page.
I enjoy the give and take here. I live in a very liberal area and know
very few conservatives I can hash stuff out with in person.
I try to separate my comments from my posts, I would never use a post
to go after a commenter, that's just unfair. Here in the bowels of the
site however, where the fun is, we each get our shots and we all give as good
as we get.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 11:46 AM (yAqqi)
One of the things that I think may create an issue when I get involved in these topics is I forget some people consider me a blogger here.
I'm a commenter. I work by myself for the most part so this place was
my virtual water cooler. I used to send Ace some tips and I assume he just got
sick of having read my emails and decided to basically say, "just post
this shit yourself and leave me alone".
The long time denizens of the place know this but I forget that traffic has grown so much in the last year, there are a lot of people who only know me, Dave, Gabe and the rest as people who can post on the front page.
I enjoy the give and take here. I live in a very liberal area and know
very few conservatives I can hash stuff out with in person.
I try to separate my comments from my posts, I would never use a post
to go after a commenter, that's just unfair. Here in the bowels of the
site however, where the fun is, we each get our shots and we all give as good
as we get.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 11:58 AM (iTt2X)
503
Jindal is still interesting to me, but that awful speech he gave
earlier this year was probably as dispiriting to me as Sarah Palin has
been to some of her critics.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:49 AM (ZqTlA)
Yeah, that was ugly, no doubt.
I think a primary fight between the likes of Palin, Jindal, Barbour and a few wild cards thrown in along with Mitt and Huck will be great. That's a much stronger field to select from than last year.
earlier this year was probably as dispiriting to me as Sarah Palin has
been to some of her critics.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:49 AM (ZqTlA)
Yeah, that was ugly, no doubt.
I think a primary fight between the likes of Palin, Jindal, Barbour and a few wild cards thrown in along with Mitt and Huck will be great. That's a much stronger field to select from than last year.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:02 PM (iTt2X)
504
Kensington....Palin gets crapped on by people like Allahpundit given that his
priorities seem, to me, to be somewhere on the other side of crazy
himself.
He's not crazy, he's in love...with Meggie Mac. And when people are in love, they do crazy things.
People -Did we learn NOTHING from the Mark/Maria love story?
I actually agree with those who say Palin is out. I like Palin, but have had concerns at her depth of knowledge and her ability to overcome some HOOOOOOGE perception hurdles. I think she is in a better position as the cheerleader rather than the leader.
The fact that she couldn't get the AK repub legislature on her side on several legislative issues demonstrates the limits on her leadership abilities.
Yes - she can inspire people. Yes- she can stir emotions in people. But so can Obama and he is turning out to be NOT impressive leader.
We still have a couple of years before a 2012 candidate needs to be selected. Bush didn't throw his hat in the ring until Nov 1999....exactly one year before the election.
tink
priorities seem, to me, to be somewhere on the other side of crazy
himself.
He's not crazy, he's in love...with Meggie Mac. And when people are in love, they do crazy things.
People -Did we learn NOTHING from the Mark/Maria love story?
I actually agree with those who say Palin is out. I like Palin, but have had concerns at her depth of knowledge and her ability to overcome some HOOOOOOGE perception hurdles. I think she is in a better position as the cheerleader rather than the leader.
The fact that she couldn't get the AK repub legislature on her side on several legislative issues demonstrates the limits on her leadership abilities.
Yes - she can inspire people. Yes- she can stir emotions in people. But so can Obama and he is turning out to be NOT impressive leader.
We still have a couple of years before a 2012 candidate needs to be selected. Bush didn't throw his hat in the ring until Nov 1999....exactly one year before the election.
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 12:04 PM (pLs/O)
505
Tinkerbella, he did yesterday also tweet that Meghan McCain should run for Congress as a NYC Republican, and I think he was serious.
Talk about a blind spot.
Talk about a blind spot.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 12:08 PM (ZqTlA)
506
The fact that she couldn't get the AK repub legislature on her side on several legislative issues demonstrates the limits on her leadership abilities.
Ah come on, the AK legislature was full of the same corrupt SOBs that she was running against for Gov originally. They were NEVER going to be on her side. We have the same issue now in SC which is why Sanford gets so much flack. Half of the R side of the legislature are ex-Dems who switched parties when they realized it was getting too hard to win in most of the districts as a Dem.
They still act like Dems though.
Ah come on, the AK legislature was full of the same corrupt SOBs that she was running against for Gov originally. They were NEVER going to be on her side. We have the same issue now in SC which is why Sanford gets so much flack. Half of the R side of the legislature are ex-Dems who switched parties when they realized it was getting too hard to win in most of the districts as a Dem.
They still act like Dems though.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 12:08 PM (5ynkO)
507
He promotes Meghan McCain and expresses open contempt for Rush Limbaugh. It's Backwards World.
I'll never get the hostility toward Rush. The man is a treasure, and his value to the GOP should be respected. It was his steadfast advocating for limited governance and conservative principles in the early 90s that made me realize that my own values, which I always identified as liberal, were really conservative for all practical purposes.
I'll never get the hostility toward Rush. The man is a treasure, and his value to the GOP should be respected. It was his steadfast advocating for limited governance and conservative principles in the early 90s that made me realize that my own values, which I always identified as liberal, were really conservative for all practical purposes.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 12:16 PM (ZqTlA)
508
And just now, Allah tweeted that a "Fox News" commentator went off on Palin. Turns out to be a particularly unhinged scumbag who last year fantasized on-air about someone assassinating Obama and later referred to Trig Palin as an "it" during more contemptuous Palin bashing.
But to Allah, it's just "Fox News Contributor goes off on Palin." Lah-dee-dah.
And he wonders why people think he's a Palin hater.
But to Allah, it's just "Fox News Contributor goes off on Palin." Lah-dee-dah.
And he wonders why people think he's a Palin hater.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 12:26 PM (ZqTlA)
509
Fox is currently pushing Romney so they get a two-fer. A hit on Palin as well as controversy that sells soap.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 12:30 PM (5ynkO)
510
And just now, Allah tweeted that a "Fox News" commentator went off on
Palin. Turns out to be a particularly unhinged scumbag who last year
fantasized on-air about someone assassinating Obama and later referred
to Trig Palin as an "it" during more contemptuous Palin bashing.
But to Allah, it's just "Fox News Contributor goes off on Palin." Lah-dee-dah.
And he wonders why people think he's a Palin hater.
I was about to post the same thing. If you follow him you can see he is all contempt all the time with all things conservative. Hes an atheist and pro gay rights and thats fine, but has contempt for social cons as his twitter feed shows. He just posts articles that go off on social cons and his fellow friends just pile on.
"Fox News Commentator" WTF? Shes a vile fucking moonbat that would just as soon put a knife in Palins back then shake her hand.
Palin. Turns out to be a particularly unhinged scumbag who last year
fantasized on-air about someone assassinating Obama and later referred
to Trig Palin as an "it" during more contemptuous Palin bashing.
But to Allah, it's just "Fox News Contributor goes off on Palin." Lah-dee-dah.
And he wonders why people think he's a Palin hater.
I was about to post the same thing. If you follow him you can see he is all contempt all the time with all things conservative. Hes an atheist and pro gay rights and thats fine, but has contempt for social cons as his twitter feed shows. He just posts articles that go off on social cons and his fellow friends just pile on.
"Fox News Commentator" WTF? Shes a vile fucking moonbat that would just as soon put a knife in Palins back then shake her hand.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:30 PM (yAqqi)
511
Tinkerbella, he did yesterday also tweet that Meghan McCain should run
for Congress as a NYC Republican, and I think he was serious.
Talk about a blind spot.
That's because he is in love...and he wants to see her sexy tattoo and have the guerrilla sex with her she likes to boast about.
Love makes you do crazy things...and he's trying to get in her pants. The man is on a mission.
Don't be too hard on him. We've all been there.
And as far as the Rush thing is concerned...I have always loved Rush....been listening to him since early 90"s, before he became popular. However, Rush is the one who started the whole "Politics of personal destruction". It used to be funny and entertaining when he would stick it to the dems, but they have repaid in kind, with a vengeance.
If you are being objective and honest, Rush is the one who started the nastiness - he was endless with the Clintons (and Clinton is looking like a conservative repub next to Obama). Politics has always been nasty, but it has been taken up a notch in the last 15 years....and Rushbo was leading the pack.
He's right about what he says, but he is also nasty with some of his comments. And Ann Coulter doesn't help the cause much either. No one pays attention to what she says, which is often times brilliant. They are too busy paying attention to how she is saying it.
And of course, the media has made them the face of the Republican party and all things conservative.
tink
for Congress as a NYC Republican, and I think he was serious.
Talk about a blind spot.
That's because he is in love...and he wants to see her sexy tattoo and have the guerrilla sex with her she likes to boast about.
Love makes you do crazy things...and he's trying to get in her pants. The man is on a mission.
Don't be too hard on him. We've all been there.
And as far as the Rush thing is concerned...I have always loved Rush....been listening to him since early 90"s, before he became popular. However, Rush is the one who started the whole "Politics of personal destruction". It used to be funny and entertaining when he would stick it to the dems, but they have repaid in kind, with a vengeance.
If you are being objective and honest, Rush is the one who started the nastiness - he was endless with the Clintons (and Clinton is looking like a conservative repub next to Obama). Politics has always been nasty, but it has been taken up a notch in the last 15 years....and Rushbo was leading the pack.
He's right about what he says, but he is also nasty with some of his comments. And Ann Coulter doesn't help the cause much either. No one pays attention to what she says, which is often times brilliant. They are too busy paying attention to how she is saying it.
And of course, the media has made them the face of the Republican party and all things conservative.
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 12:31 PM (pLs/O)
512
#512...Drew,
Thanks for clearing that up for me....I knew I'd regret it as soon as I hit the send key.....(on the way to woodshed).
Thanks for clearing that up for me....I knew I'd regret it as soon as I hit the send key.....(on the way to woodshed).
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 12:32 PM (d3dk0)
513
510
Vic, I never thought the day would come when I'd feel such hostility
toward the Republican Party as a whole. I don't believe in the
viability of third parties as anything other than spoilers, and lord
knows I will not become a Democrat, but for the first time since
becoming a Republican in 1994, I'm tempted to switch my affiliation to
Independent until they get their act together again.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:56 AM (ZqTlA)
Me too. I'm switching this week.
Vic, I never thought the day would come when I'd feel such hostility
toward the Republican Party as a whole. I don't believe in the
viability of third parties as anything other than spoilers, and lord
knows I will not become a Democrat, but for the first time since
becoming a Republican in 1994, I'm tempted to switch my affiliation to
Independent until they get their act together again.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 11:56 AM (ZqTlA)
Me too. I'm switching this week.
Posted by: Y-not at July 05, 2009 12:32 PM (sey23)
514
You know, a lot of you mention the idea that you have faith in Sarah Palin and therefore would like rightwing bloggers to share and propagate that faith.
Here's the problem with that:
You have faith that Sarah Palin will do the things you wish her to do. Which is, of course, lead the Republican Party as a candidate for high office.
You don't seem to recognize the possibility that Sarah Palin has decided that her own life, her own happiness, and her own family come first.
This is what I'm getting at when I suggest it's the pro-Palin people who are questioning her decision, whereas I accept it, and forgive her for it. The strong Palin supporters speak as if it's impossible to imagine that Palin might have decided that her own happiness and well-being are more important than politics. Charity begins at the home and so too does a viable political system. If a family is strong and happy, they can withstand most political decisions made by even egregious douchebags like Barack Obama.
I think this shows that I care about Sarah Palin, despite intimations to the contrary. I believe that she has her own life and she is permitted, if she chooses, to put the one life she has on earth (and her family) ahead of my problems or my political needs. I accept that as an understandable decision and even a laudable one.
I think that those who insist that Palin *must* be plotting some electoral comeback are assuming, whether they realize it or not, that their own needs must come before Sarah Palin's. They need Sarah Palin to be the unifying, electrifying conservative standard-bearer, ergo that must be what her intention is.
I don't believe that. I think that every person, especially one as viciously abused as Palin, has the right t say "I don't need this anymore; some things are more important than politics, and my kids and my husband and even myself are among them."
Which is what I think she's decided.
Why do I say that? Well this is the reason I bring up the fact she's created a huge burden for herself IF, hypothetically, she actually wants to be president. Because I acknowledge and accept this is a huge new burden (and she already had several), I must conclude she took this step after considering the likely impossibility of running for president (at least for 2012) and decided she was fine with that.
I don't bring that up to say "What a quitter. How terrible of her. How weak." I bring it up as a data-point to consider when evaluating the likelihood of a future run. I believe she's a rational person, so I believe she understands the consequences of her actions. Ergo, if she takes a step that makes it much harder to become president (if not impossible), then she must have considered that and decided it was not a major concern.
The way the Palin-for-President supporters get around this implication is to argue that somehow quitting one's term as governor has no negative consequences on her presidential chances; indeed, they suggest, it increases her chances.
I don't buy that for a second. I just don't. And in any event that claim is motivated by desire, i.e., those making the claim want her to be president, ergo they claim that whatever she's done has only helped her chances.
Well, again: You proceed from the assumption that what you want for Sarah Palin (GOP leader) is what Sarah Palin wants for Sarah Palin. I wouldn't call that selfish. I think that is an unfair imputation of those feeling this way. But I also get kind of pissed, then, when it's suggested I have some selfish ulterior motive (I'm pro-Romney and so I want her out!) for my feelings.
I'm comfortable with Sarah Palin doing what's best for Sarah Palin, and that includes her deciding she doesn't need or want this anymore. I don't see how this makes me anti-Palin. If anything, it makes me pro-Palin, because I'm not seeking/wanting anything for myself from her decisions. (Well, I would have liked her to have been the presidential nominee, assuming she became a better candidate, but if she's decided against that route I wish her well.)
The way I see it, Sarah Palin owes me nothing at all. She fought her heart out for the Palin/McCain ticket and owes me nothing more.
I'm not saying those supporting her for President would claim she DOES owe them something more. However, it does seem that there is an unwilingness to even consider the possibility that what is best for Sarah Palin and her family and what is best for the GOP and conservative movement *might not be the same thing.* I'm willing to consider that -- that is, in fact, what I think she's realized. The pro-Palin people, however, don't seem to acknowledge this as a possibility.
Whatever Palin is doing, their thinking goes, must be in some crafty way directed towards doing what THEY want her to do.
Again, I just don't believe that. You are welcome to believe differently.
Anyway, this is why I say I cannot share your "faith" that Palin will "do the right thing by us." Because I don't accept that she owes it to us to do anything more for us. And I accept that there may have been a huge divergence between what is best for Sarah Palin's family and what is best for the American nation. And if there was a divergence, then it is quite understandable she prioritized the former more highly.
As a thought experiment, I'd ask the Palin 2012 people this: If she doesn't run for President, would you be disappointed in her? If the answer is "Yes," that indicates you have a need from her that you think she should satisfy.
So when I'm asked "Why don't you have faith in her?," let me suggest the way I'd ask the question:
"Why do YOU have faith that her personal/familial interests are perfectly, exactly congruent with your own interests, and why do YOU have faith that she will choose to fulfill YOUR hopes and expectations rather than her own?"
Isn't that kind of assuming she exists primarily on your behalf?
Here's the problem with that:
You have faith that Sarah Palin will do the things you wish her to do. Which is, of course, lead the Republican Party as a candidate for high office.
You don't seem to recognize the possibility that Sarah Palin has decided that her own life, her own happiness, and her own family come first.
This is what I'm getting at when I suggest it's the pro-Palin people who are questioning her decision, whereas I accept it, and forgive her for it. The strong Palin supporters speak as if it's impossible to imagine that Palin might have decided that her own happiness and well-being are more important than politics. Charity begins at the home and so too does a viable political system. If a family is strong and happy, they can withstand most political decisions made by even egregious douchebags like Barack Obama.
I think this shows that I care about Sarah Palin, despite intimations to the contrary. I believe that she has her own life and she is permitted, if she chooses, to put the one life she has on earth (and her family) ahead of my problems or my political needs. I accept that as an understandable decision and even a laudable one.
I think that those who insist that Palin *must* be plotting some electoral comeback are assuming, whether they realize it or not, that their own needs must come before Sarah Palin's. They need Sarah Palin to be the unifying, electrifying conservative standard-bearer, ergo that must be what her intention is.
I don't believe that. I think that every person, especially one as viciously abused as Palin, has the right t say "I don't need this anymore; some things are more important than politics, and my kids and my husband and even myself are among them."
Which is what I think she's decided.
Why do I say that? Well this is the reason I bring up the fact she's created a huge burden for herself IF, hypothetically, she actually wants to be president. Because I acknowledge and accept this is a huge new burden (and she already had several), I must conclude she took this step after considering the likely impossibility of running for president (at least for 2012) and decided she was fine with that.
I don't bring that up to say "What a quitter. How terrible of her. How weak." I bring it up as a data-point to consider when evaluating the likelihood of a future run. I believe she's a rational person, so I believe she understands the consequences of her actions. Ergo, if she takes a step that makes it much harder to become president (if not impossible), then she must have considered that and decided it was not a major concern.
The way the Palin-for-President supporters get around this implication is to argue that somehow quitting one's term as governor has no negative consequences on her presidential chances; indeed, they suggest, it increases her chances.
I don't buy that for a second. I just don't. And in any event that claim is motivated by desire, i.e., those making the claim want her to be president, ergo they claim that whatever she's done has only helped her chances.
Well, again: You proceed from the assumption that what you want for Sarah Palin (GOP leader) is what Sarah Palin wants for Sarah Palin. I wouldn't call that selfish. I think that is an unfair imputation of those feeling this way. But I also get kind of pissed, then, when it's suggested I have some selfish ulterior motive (I'm pro-Romney and so I want her out!) for my feelings.
I'm comfortable with Sarah Palin doing what's best for Sarah Palin, and that includes her deciding she doesn't need or want this anymore. I don't see how this makes me anti-Palin. If anything, it makes me pro-Palin, because I'm not seeking/wanting anything for myself from her decisions. (Well, I would have liked her to have been the presidential nominee, assuming she became a better candidate, but if she's decided against that route I wish her well.)
The way I see it, Sarah Palin owes me nothing at all. She fought her heart out for the Palin/McCain ticket and owes me nothing more.
I'm not saying those supporting her for President would claim she DOES owe them something more. However, it does seem that there is an unwilingness to even consider the possibility that what is best for Sarah Palin and her family and what is best for the GOP and conservative movement *might not be the same thing.* I'm willing to consider that -- that is, in fact, what I think she's realized. The pro-Palin people, however, don't seem to acknowledge this as a possibility.
Whatever Palin is doing, their thinking goes, must be in some crafty way directed towards doing what THEY want her to do.
Again, I just don't believe that. You are welcome to believe differently.
Anyway, this is why I say I cannot share your "faith" that Palin will "do the right thing by us." Because I don't accept that she owes it to us to do anything more for us. And I accept that there may have been a huge divergence between what is best for Sarah Palin's family and what is best for the American nation. And if there was a divergence, then it is quite understandable she prioritized the former more highly.
As a thought experiment, I'd ask the Palin 2012 people this: If she doesn't run for President, would you be disappointed in her? If the answer is "Yes," that indicates you have a need from her that you think she should satisfy.
So when I'm asked "Why don't you have faith in her?," let me suggest the way I'd ask the question:
"Why do YOU have faith that her personal/familial interests are perfectly, exactly congruent with your own interests, and why do YOU have faith that she will choose to fulfill YOUR hopes and expectations rather than her own?"
Isn't that kind of assuming she exists primarily on your behalf?
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:33 PM (JQ+0C)
515
<blockquote>She didn't quit because she "couldn't take the heat". </blockquote>
(hope the blockquote tag works)
I want to believe this but her departure will be spun this way, and I think most people will accept that rationalization. That's why quitting to seek higher office isn't viewed the same as quitting to be with your family, even if the distinction between the 2 to your (former) constituents is pretty meaningless. That's why so many people think this is a disastrous move for her political career.
(hope the blockquote tag works)
I want to believe this but her departure will be spun this way, and I think most people will accept that rationalization. That's why quitting to seek higher office isn't viewed the same as quitting to be with your family, even if the distinction between the 2 to your (former) constituents is pretty meaningless. That's why so many people think this is a disastrous move for her political career.
Posted by: h0mi at July 05, 2009 12:33 PM (rq0rN)
516
>> decided to basically say, "just post this shit yourself and leave me alone".
HAHAHAHA. You too?
HAHAHAHA. You too?
Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 05, 2009 12:33 PM (eiOZw)
517
Ah
come on, the AK legislature was full of the same corrupt SOBs that she
was running against for Gov originally. They were NEVER going to be on
her side. We have the same issue now in SC which is why Sanford gets so
much flack. Half of the R side of the legislature are ex-Dems who
switched parties when they realized it was getting too hard to win in
most of the districts as a Dem.
They still act like Dems though.
And how is this different than the Republicans in Washington? If she can't get the natives from her own state on her side. Realistically, how is she going to get DC Repubs on her side?tink
come on, the AK legislature was full of the same corrupt SOBs that she
was running against for Gov originally. They were NEVER going to be on
her side. We have the same issue now in SC which is why Sanford gets so
much flack. Half of the R side of the legislature are ex-Dems who
switched parties when they realized it was getting too hard to win in
most of the districts as a Dem.
They still act like Dems though.
And how is this different than the Republicans in Washington? If she can't get the natives from her own state on her side. Realistically, how is she going to get DC Repubs on her side?tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 12:34 PM (pLs/O)
518
I don't know why Allahpundit is relevant. It seems as though a lot of folks elevate him by analyzing his RINOitis and Palin-bashing and whatnot. He just doesn't seem that important to me. He strikes me as MM's lapdog, nothing more.
Posted by: Y-not at July 05, 2009 12:35 PM (sey23)
519
I mean tell me who wrote this, a R or a D:
Palin complaining about the media again: http://is.gd/1nvB1about 19 hours ago from twhirl
Biden rejects Palin's complaints about "political blood sport": http://is.gd/1nlibabout 24 hours ago from twhirl
Why Palin won't make a Nixonian comeback: http://is.gd/1nkcL10:20 AM Jul 4th from twhirl
Q: How many Palin fans are less likely to vote for her now (even marginally) bc of yesterday? My guess: No more than 20%8:23 AM Jul 4th from twhirl
Palin complaining about the media again: http://is.gd/1nvB1about 19 hours ago from twhirl
Biden rejects Palin's complaints about "political blood sport": http://is.gd/1nlibabout 24 hours ago from twhirl
Why Palin won't make a Nixonian comeback: http://is.gd/1nkcL10:20 AM Jul 4th from twhirl
Q: How many Palin fans are less likely to vote for her now (even marginally) bc of yesterday? My guess: No more than 20%8:23 AM Jul 4th from twhirl
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:37 PM (yAqqi)
520
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 12:32 PM (d3dk0)
No not at all. It's actually my bad.
It honestly didn't dawn on me until you and TendStl brought it up, that
with traffic more than doubling in the last year far more people only
'know' me, Dave, Gabe, Slu, and the gang as "co-bloggers"
and it might seem that when we, (well, I'll just speak for myself) when
I, get into it it may seem like it's 'the man' coming down. It's not,
just another commenter.
But I willl try to keep this in mind in the future.
No not at all. It's actually my bad.
It honestly didn't dawn on me until you and TendStl brought it up, that
with traffic more than doubling in the last year far more people only
'know' me, Dave, Gabe, Slu, and the gang as "co-bloggers"
and it might seem that when we, (well, I'll just speak for myself) when
I, get into it it may seem like it's 'the man' coming down. It's not,
just another commenter.
But I willl try to keep this in mind in the future.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 12:41 PM (iTt2X)
521
Let me rephrase my point:
Asking "Why don't you show some faith in Sarah Palin?" presupposes that Sarah Palin has decided to do the things I want and need her to do on my behalf; the "faith" part is about whether she will carry out her decision faithfully.
But see, I do have faith that she will carry out her intentions faithfully and with integrity.
Where we disagree concerns what those intentions are.
The Palin 2012 people believe those intentions are to be president in 2012. Now, if I really believed that was her intention, I could understand the "faith in her" question. If I believed that was her intention, then I could either have faith she was doing everything necessary to accomplish that, or I would be doubting her.
Again, I don't believe that is her intention. I do have "faith in Sarah" that she will pursue her intentions. I just happen to believe her intentions are to protect her family from the nastiness of the left by departing from elective politics. Intentions which are in her own best interests, but not mine. But I understand her putting her family above me, who she's never even met.
Asking "Why don't you show some faith in Sarah Palin?" presupposes that Sarah Palin has decided to do the things I want and need her to do on my behalf; the "faith" part is about whether she will carry out her decision faithfully.
But see, I do have faith that she will carry out her intentions faithfully and with integrity.
Where we disagree concerns what those intentions are.
The Palin 2012 people believe those intentions are to be president in 2012. Now, if I really believed that was her intention, I could understand the "faith in her" question. If I believed that was her intention, then I could either have faith she was doing everything necessary to accomplish that, or I would be doubting her.
Again, I don't believe that is her intention. I do have "faith in Sarah" that she will pursue her intentions. I just happen to believe her intentions are to protect her family from the nastiness of the left by departing from elective politics. Intentions which are in her own best interests, but not mine. But I understand her putting her family above me, who she's never even met.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:42 PM (JQ+0C)
522
Isn't that kind of assuming she exists primarily on your behalf?
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:33 PM (JQ+0C)
I actually think its the opposite. I have read c4p and other sites and we would be let down if she doesn't run because we feel we have let HER down. Everywhere I have read is a concensus, that she owes us nothing at all but we want the opportunity to help her for what she has done to the movement.As a huge fan, and supporter I think this hurt her badly, but I want to believe that something good will come of this. I want to believe!
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:33 PM (JQ+0C)
I actually think its the opposite. I have read c4p and other sites and we would be let down if she doesn't run because we feel we have let HER down. Everywhere I have read is a concensus, that she owes us nothing at all but we want the opportunity to help her for what she has done to the movement.As a huge fan, and supporter I think this hurt her badly, but I want to believe that something good will come of this. I want to believe!
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:44 PM (yAqqi)
523
By the way, to address TendStl's point:
Maybe you'd want to hear "She's coming back to you!,' but maybe 1) that's not likely and 2) maybe YOU need to hear she's not coming back, whether you want to hear that or not.
Maybe you'd want to hear "She's coming back to you!,' but maybe 1) that's not likely and 2) maybe YOU need to hear she's not coming back, whether you want to hear that or not.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:45 PM (JQ+0C)
524
Ace, I just dont see how you get that out of that speech unless you think she is lying her ass off. She categorically stated that she was stepping down in order to be able to attack in a different direction and allow the state of AK to get a better deal for its money.
I said this earlier and Ill repeat it. Whether or not she runs and resigning as governor hurts her remains to be seen. The issue is who will ultimate carry the message of small government/individual freedom for conservatives. Right now she was at the top of the pack for that message.
Her detractors are ALL for big government and fascist controls. If they thought that she was a hopeless candidate they would have written her off long ago.
And since his name was brought up earlier, Ron Paul is a good example. He actually does preach a small government thing (among some other things) but he has not been the subject of all these vile attacks. They know he hasnt got a chance.
I said this earlier and Ill repeat it. Whether or not she runs and resigning as governor hurts her remains to be seen. The issue is who will ultimate carry the message of small government/individual freedom for conservatives. Right now she was at the top of the pack for that message.
Her detractors are ALL for big government and fascist controls. If they thought that she was a hopeless candidate they would have written her off long ago.
And since his name was brought up earlier, Ron Paul is a good example. He actually does preach a small government thing (among some other things) but he has not been the subject of all these vile attacks. They know he hasnt got a chance.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 12:45 PM (5ynkO)
525
>>>As a huge fan, and supporter I think this hurt her badly, but I want to believe that something good will come of this. I want to believe!
But this is my point, exactly.
The "something good" you wish to believe in is a good that helps YOU.
If I propose the "something good" is that "Palin has more time to spend with her children and husband and is much happier in life, and maybe richer too..."
well that is not the "something good" you are considering.
The "something good' may be something that benefits palin and her family a lot while benefiting us not at all.
But this is my point, exactly.
The "something good" you wish to believe in is a good that helps YOU.
If I propose the "something good" is that "Palin has more time to spend with her children and husband and is much happier in life, and maybe richer too..."
well that is not the "something good" you are considering.
The "something good' may be something that benefits palin and her family a lot while benefiting us not at all.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:47 PM (JQ+0C)
526
Ace, I'm officially agnostic on Palin. I kind of hope she'll run, and it will be disappointing if she doesn't, mainly because no one else seems remotely inspiring right now, but that's as far as my "faith" in her goes. And that's as negative as I'm willing to get at this point.
I just don't think it's wise to write her political obituary based on conventional wisdom in this age where it seems like a lot of conventional wisdom might be going out the window.
I just don't think it's wise to write her political obituary based on conventional wisdom in this age where it seems like a lot of conventional wisdom might be going out the window.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 12:47 PM (ZqTlA)
527
Above, in addressing TendStl, I meant "maybe you NEED to hear she's not coming back," not "maybe YOU need to hear she's not coming back."
I put the caps on the wrong word. I'm not telling TendStl that he in particular needs to hear this.
I meant to contrast want with need.
I put the caps on the wrong word. I'm not telling TendStl that he in particular needs to hear this.
I meant to contrast want with need.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:49 PM (JQ+0C)
528
Ultimately, if she withdraws from politics entirely, I wouldn't blame her, and she'd have my blessing.
It doesn't really sound like that's what she has in mind, though.
It doesn't really sound like that's what she has in mind, though.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 12:49 PM (ZqTlA)
529
You know who would have been a good Presidential candidate? Michael Jackson, that's who.
but he died.
but he died.
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 12:50 PM (pLs/O)
530
And how is this different than the Republicans in Washington? If she can't get the natives from her own state on her side. Realistically, how is she going to get DC Repubs on her side?
There is a vast difference between federal Rs and the AK and SC Rs. Beck likes to paint a pretty grim picture there but it really isnt that bad. Look at the last couple of big votes on these Obama issues. Only a few of the liberal Rs crossed over to vote with the Dems.
I actually expected more Rs to go for that cap and tax BS but I was surprised.
There is a vast difference between federal Rs and the AK and SC Rs. Beck likes to paint a pretty grim picture there but it really isnt that bad. Look at the last couple of big votes on these Obama issues. Only a few of the liberal Rs crossed over to vote with the Dems.
I actually expected more Rs to go for that cap and tax BS but I was surprised.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 12:50 PM (5ynkO)
531
If I propose the "something good" is that "Palin has more time to spend
with her children and husband and is much happier in life, and maybe
richer too..."
I guess I need to clarify, if her resigning makes the attacks on her and her family stop, if it makes the lawsuits stop, if she writes her book, campaigns for true conservatives for Congress and the Senate and comes out and says "I am happy where I am, and I don't want to run for president", to me that is "something good".
I don't need her to run for higher office, if in 6 months she moves to Idaho and buys a small house and gets a job teaching middle school and says she is "good to go", so am I.
with her children and husband and is much happier in life, and maybe
richer too..."
I guess I need to clarify, if her resigning makes the attacks on her and her family stop, if it makes the lawsuits stop, if she writes her book, campaigns for true conservatives for Congress and the Senate and comes out and says "I am happy where I am, and I don't want to run for president", to me that is "something good".
I don't need her to run for higher office, if in 6 months she moves to Idaho and buys a small house and gets a job teaching middle school and says she is "good to go", so am I.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 12:52 PM (yAqqi)
532
Ace:"I'm comfortable with Sarah Palin doing what's best for Sarah Palin, and
that includes her deciding she doesn't need or want this anymore. I
don't see how this makes me anti-Palin."
But what if Palin decides that what's best for her is traveling throughout the lower 48 in preparation for a presidential run in '12? If she does that (and I'm not saying she will -- I have no idea and am agnostic on the matter) you're already on record as saying that she's dead in the water. You may not be influential enough to hurt her (I don't know, maybe you are), but you certainly won't have helped her.
That might make you seem a little anti-Palin.
that includes her deciding she doesn't need or want this anymore. I
don't see how this makes me anti-Palin."
But what if Palin decides that what's best for her is traveling throughout the lower 48 in preparation for a presidential run in '12? If she does that (and I'm not saying she will -- I have no idea and am agnostic on the matter) you're already on record as saying that she's dead in the water. You may not be influential enough to hurt her (I don't know, maybe you are), but you certainly won't have helped her.
That might make you seem a little anti-Palin.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 12:54 PM (ZqTlA)
533
>>>Ace, I just dont see how you get that out of that speech unless you think she is lying her ass off. She categorically stated that she was stepping down in order to be able to attack in a different direction and allow the state of AK to get a better deal for its money.
I don't see how you get that out of her ACTIONS, which I consider more informative than a speech explaining her action.
You guys are blowing off resigning a governorship trusted to her by voters as no big shakes!
It's incredible how little import you're willing to attach to that action.
It may be the case you think I am overstating the importance of this... okay. But to act as if this was no biggie?
This gets into Kensington's mention of "conventional wisdom" going out the door. Well, I don't consider this conventional wisdom. I consider it wisdom, period: You don't resign an office if you have a desire to seek a higher office.
To be president, you need to make 50+% of the country view you as capable of bearing the awesome burden of the presidency.
Thus, to be president, you need to spend a lot of time reassuring people of your potential, and making them confident in you.
Palin has taken an action which is quite the opposite of reassuring and confidence-inspiring. You can make excuses for it and say "But this is different!" and all that. You can do that. But the fact is you now NEED to make excuses.
If you're running for president, you want people needing to make as few excuses for you as possible. Because they're always going to have make *some* excuses. You don't want to multiply reasons for doubt or lack of confidence.
Whether you CAN make excuses or clever 3-dimensional-chess rationales for this, the fact of the mater is that you are now enlisted to do so. Which is something someone seriously running for President should not do.
I don't see how you get that out of her ACTIONS, which I consider more informative than a speech explaining her action.
You guys are blowing off resigning a governorship trusted to her by voters as no big shakes!
It's incredible how little import you're willing to attach to that action.
It may be the case you think I am overstating the importance of this... okay. But to act as if this was no biggie?
This gets into Kensington's mention of "conventional wisdom" going out the door. Well, I don't consider this conventional wisdom. I consider it wisdom, period: You don't resign an office if you have a desire to seek a higher office.
To be president, you need to make 50+% of the country view you as capable of bearing the awesome burden of the presidency.
Thus, to be president, you need to spend a lot of time reassuring people of your potential, and making them confident in you.
Palin has taken an action which is quite the opposite of reassuring and confidence-inspiring. You can make excuses for it and say "But this is different!" and all that. You can do that. But the fact is you now NEED to make excuses.
If you're running for president, you want people needing to make as few excuses for you as possible. Because they're always going to have make *some* excuses. You don't want to multiply reasons for doubt or lack of confidence.
Whether you CAN make excuses or clever 3-dimensional-chess rationales for this, the fact of the mater is that you are now enlisted to do so. Which is something someone seriously running for President should not do.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 12:57 PM (JQ+0C)
534
Tinkerbella@521:
"That's because he is in love...and he wants to see her sexy tattoo and have the guerrilla sex with her she likes to boast about."
You mis-spelled "gorilla."
Beyond that, I'll just say I disagree with your take on Limbaugh as the inventor of the politics of personal destruction.
I also think it's unwise to reminisce too much about the Clintons. The man was a demagogue and a rapist. Try to separate the 90s from the Clintons. It really didn't have all that much to do with him. He was just Lucky Pierre floating around sticking his cigar where it didn't belong and being loved for it by people who liked what was happening to their stock portfolios.
Just because Obama is a nightmare, that doesn't make Clinton any less of a sociopath.
"That's because he is in love...and he wants to see her sexy tattoo and have the guerrilla sex with her she likes to boast about."
You mis-spelled "gorilla."
Beyond that, I'll just say I disagree with your take on Limbaugh as the inventor of the politics of personal destruction.
I also think it's unwise to reminisce too much about the Clintons. The man was a demagogue and a rapist. Try to separate the 90s from the Clintons. It really didn't have all that much to do with him. He was just Lucky Pierre floating around sticking his cigar where it didn't belong and being loved for it by people who liked what was happening to their stock portfolios.
Just because Obama is a nightmare, that doesn't make Clinton any less of a sociopath.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 12:58 PM (ZqTlA)
535
You guys are blowing off resigning a governorship trusted to her by voters as no big shakes!
I guess there we do have a fundamental difference. I do take her at her word and dont think that, given the circumstances, that is was a bad thing for the State of AK. IOW, not a big deal.
And it has been said many times, if conventional wisdom and Smart money were still operative in politics Obama would never have had a chance, especially after the Ayers and Wright things as well as the Resco? thing.
I dont think we have had conventional wisdom in politics since the 2000 election.
I guess there we do have a fundamental difference. I do take her at her word and dont think that, given the circumstances, that is was a bad thing for the State of AK. IOW, not a big deal.
And it has been said many times, if conventional wisdom and Smart money were still operative in politics Obama would never have had a chance, especially after the Ayers and Wright things as well as the Resco? thing.
I dont think we have had conventional wisdom in politics since the 2000 election.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 01:02 PM (5ynkO)
536
>>>But what if Palin decides that what's best for her is traveling throughout the lower 48 in preparation for a presidential run in '12? If she does that (and I'm not saying she will -- I have no idea and am agnostic on the matter) you're already on record as saying that she's dead in the water. You may not be influential enough to hurt her (I don't know, maybe you are), but you certainly won't have helped her.
Dude, I think she is dead in the water.
I think it's weird that some people can't see, or won't accept, what a huge thing resigning from office is.
Please accept that you guys are essentially in love with her, to go with TendStl's analogy.
If you're in love with someone, you will make a lot more excuses for her than people NOT in love with her. Again, going back to TendStl's analogy: The mom calls her a dirty word while the son wants to hear she's coming back.
You guys are basically polling each other, polling other people in love with her, and asking "Can we forgive her this?" and coming back with a 100% "Yes" result.
Fine.
Go ask the people who aren't in love with her whether this gives them additional confidence in Sarah Palin or greatly reduces what limited confidence they had.
I do not doubt that if the electorate were composed of the 30% of the populace that loves sarah palin, she'd win in a landslide.
Unfortunately it does not. And you seriously have to stop hypothesizing this world in which Palin's non-supporters, including gettable votes she would NEED to win anything, are willing to to as far as you in making excuses and proposing funky Triple Lindy type political dives.
Dude, I think she is dead in the water.
I think it's weird that some people can't see, or won't accept, what a huge thing resigning from office is.
Please accept that you guys are essentially in love with her, to go with TendStl's analogy.
If you're in love with someone, you will make a lot more excuses for her than people NOT in love with her. Again, going back to TendStl's analogy: The mom calls her a dirty word while the son wants to hear she's coming back.
You guys are basically polling each other, polling other people in love with her, and asking "Can we forgive her this?" and coming back with a 100% "Yes" result.
Fine.
Go ask the people who aren't in love with her whether this gives them additional confidence in Sarah Palin or greatly reduces what limited confidence they had.
I do not doubt that if the electorate were composed of the 30% of the populace that loves sarah palin, she'd win in a landslide.
Unfortunately it does not. And you seriously have to stop hypothesizing this world in which Palin's non-supporters, including gettable votes she would NEED to win anything, are willing to to as far as you in making excuses and proposing funky Triple Lindy type political dives.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 01:05 PM (JQ+0C)
537
Let me get this straight. Palin with 2.5 years experience as governor isn't experienced enough to be VP as compared to Biden's years in the Twilight Zone nor Obama's vast experience in the Senate.
Or Lincoln's prior to being President? Or JFK?
If there is one thing we know, if you are a community organizer you're skilled and experienced enough.
BETTER A HONEST POLITICIAN THAN THE MOST EXPERIENCED CROOK AND SNAKEOIL SALESMAN IN THE WORLD.
Or Lincoln's prior to being President? Or JFK?
If there is one thing we know, if you are a community organizer you're skilled and experienced enough.
BETTER A HONEST POLITICIAN THAN THE MOST EXPERIENCED CROOK AND SNAKEOIL SALESMAN IN THE WORLD.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at July 05, 2009 01:06 PM (B8gqF)
538
Ace, who do you support to lead the Party into the 2012 election?
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 01:07 PM (5ynkO)
539
>>>mes, if conventional wisdom and Smart money were still operative in politics Obama would never have had a chance...
well, it was my own wisdom he was likely to beat Hillary and then win the election.
You know, on that point, Allah (RINO Moderate Squish!) and I kept saying "Obama is much more dangerous, we need Hillary to win the nomination," but a lot of conservatives hated hillary so much they were determined that she should be stopped.
Just saying: Sometimes the conventional wisdom is not what you think it is. Sometimes maybe people less emotionally invested in a proposition have a more objective, less passion-distorted take on things.
well, it was my own wisdom he was likely to beat Hillary and then win the election.
You know, on that point, Allah (RINO Moderate Squish!) and I kept saying "Obama is much more dangerous, we need Hillary to win the nomination," but a lot of conservatives hated hillary so much they were determined that she should be stopped.
Just saying: Sometimes the conventional wisdom is not what you think it is. Sometimes maybe people less emotionally invested in a proposition have a more objective, less passion-distorted take on things.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 01:08 PM (JQ+0C)
540
Huck is on FNC right now (I think it's a replay of Fox News Sunday) and he's gently and respectfully (because he wants her voters) pointing out how much damage the perception/reality of being seen as someone who can be run out of office is going to hurt her.
Agree with it or not, it's a sneak peak at the line of attack she will have to deal with.
The Lt. Gov of AK is offering the counter argument.
I think it's going to be replayed later, it's worth watching to see how this will play out. Keep in mind this is the touch football version, since Huck doesn't want to alienate the Palin supporters.
Agree with it or not, it's a sneak peak at the line of attack she will have to deal with.
The Lt. Gov of AK is offering the counter argument.
I think it's going to be replayed later, it's worth watching to see how this will play out. Keep in mind this is the touch football version, since Huck doesn't want to alienate the Palin supporters.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 01:10 PM (iTt2X)
541
Ace:
Go ask the people who aren't in love with her whether this gives them
additional confidence in Sarah Palin or greatly reduces what limited
confidence they had.
Ace, with all due respect you are assuming that those not in love with her, which I am not but I think she is an asset to the movement, are unapologetically on your side. They're not. As I said before, even Democrats on CNN were giving her the benefit of the doubt. Waiting to see how this plays out because politics is fluid, and perhaps in time with the crowds she draws she will still be a viable force.
Either way, I already did what you asked we should do, see what others on the other side are saying. Of course the usual talking heads agree with you, though having Paul Begala agree with you I don't think is something to put on your resume. And Krauthammer has never been a Palin fan, I dig Charles but hes never liked her.
Go ask the people who aren't in love with her whether this gives them
additional confidence in Sarah Palin or greatly reduces what limited
confidence they had.
Ace, with all due respect you are assuming that those not in love with her, which I am not but I think she is an asset to the movement, are unapologetically on your side. They're not. As I said before, even Democrats on CNN were giving her the benefit of the doubt. Waiting to see how this plays out because politics is fluid, and perhaps in time with the crowds she draws she will still be a viable force.
Either way, I already did what you asked we should do, see what others on the other side are saying. Of course the usual talking heads agree with you, though having Paul Begala agree with you I don't think is something to put on your resume. And Krauthammer has never been a Palin fan, I dig Charles but hes never liked her.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:14 PM (yAqqi)
542
No, Ace, I'm not "in love" with her. I'm open to the possibility that this will turn out to be an epic mistake if she attempts any large-scale re-emergence into national poltics.
I'm just not convinced and see no benefit in screaming it from the rafters right now. I'm opting for a wait-and-see (and do-no-harm-in-the-meantime) approach. You, Ed and Allah aren't.
As far as TendSt's analogy, I wasn't going to say anything, but I really don't think much of it, nor am I endorsing it. Now I'm not calling you a RINO or a traitor. Please do me the similar courtesy of not reducing my refusal to dismiss her as little more than a crush.
I'm just not convinced and see no benefit in screaming it from the rafters right now. I'm opting for a wait-and-see (and do-no-harm-in-the-meantime) approach. You, Ed and Allah aren't.
As far as TendSt's analogy, I wasn't going to say anything, but I really don't think much of it, nor am I endorsing it. Now I'm not calling you a RINO or a traitor. Please do me the similar courtesy of not reducing my refusal to dismiss her as little more than a crush.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:15 PM (ZqTlA)
543
Ah well, either way I guess I should be concentrating on finding a fucking job. Getting laid off sucks.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:17 PM (yAqqi)
544
That is to say, I really don't think the passion that you think is so blinding is, strictly speaking, solely on the pro-Palin side of things.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:18 PM (ZqTlA)
545
"Obama is much more dangerous, we need Hillary to win the nomination," but a lot of conservatives hated hillary so much they were determined that she should be stopped.
I wasnt in that boat. I predicted that Obama would take the SC primary even though Hillary had already bought most of the black politicians in the State. I knew that it would be a damn tough win for McLame no matter who won the Dems.
I will say this also. If Hillary had won the Dem side, which would have been likely if the press had been honest and the Dem rules more honest. Hillary would have carried the day by a lot bigger margin than 53%.
If Sarah Palin had not been the VP pick the same thing would have happened a lot bigger blowout.
And you missed my earlier post or the point.
It is not just a Sarah Palin thing, but what she represents. Most of us conservatives feel like we have been abandoned since Reagan left office. And we are about ready to tell the elites to find another set of suckers.
We are battling over the soul of the Republican Party. Will it be a permanent version of Demo-Lite searching for that mythological undecided voter while abandoning core principles or will it return to core values of small government and individual freedom?
I wasnt in that boat. I predicted that Obama would take the SC primary even though Hillary had already bought most of the black politicians in the State. I knew that it would be a damn tough win for McLame no matter who won the Dems.
I will say this also. If Hillary had won the Dem side, which would have been likely if the press had been honest and the Dem rules more honest. Hillary would have carried the day by a lot bigger margin than 53%.
If Sarah Palin had not been the VP pick the same thing would have happened a lot bigger blowout.
And you missed my earlier post or the point.
It is not just a Sarah Palin thing, but what she represents. Most of us conservatives feel like we have been abandoned since Reagan left office. And we are about ready to tell the elites to find another set of suckers.
We are battling over the soul of the Republican Party. Will it be a permanent version of Demo-Lite searching for that mythological undecided voter while abandoning core principles or will it return to core values of small government and individual freedom?
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 01:18 PM (5ynkO)
546
"Ah well, either way I guess I should be concentrating on finding a fucking job. Getting laid off sucks."
Amen, brother. Thanks to Obamanomics, and its predecessors, I've been out of work since just after his election.
Long-term unemployment does wonders for self-esteem, self-confidence and general spirits.
Amen, brother. Thanks to Obamanomics, and its predecessors, I've been out of work since just after his election.
Long-term unemployment does wonders for self-esteem, self-confidence and general spirits.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:20 PM (ZqTlA)
547
Ace, DrewM, Russ et al:
If Sarah opened a Vodka/Pig Slaughter/Hobo Trap factory would you get on board?
If Sarah opened a Vodka/Pig Slaughter/Hobo Trap factory would you get on board?
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:21 PM (yAqqi)
548
Whle you guys argue about things I have a quetsion. If Sarah does come out and begin a lower 48get-to-know-yatour, will she help campaign for McCain?
*sorry if this was asked beofre. I haven't read all the comments.
*sorry if this was asked beofre. I haven't read all the comments.
Posted by: Trish at July 05, 2009 01:21 PM (0U5Kd)
549
Long-term unemployment does wonders for self-esteem, self-confidence and general spirits.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:20 PM (ZqTlA)
Yeah, they told me "Get a fuckin degree and you can write your own ticket!" Yeah how is that working out for me.Douchebags
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:20 PM (ZqTlA)
Yeah, they told me "Get a fuckin degree and you can write your own ticket!" Yeah how is that working out for me.Douchebags
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:22 PM (yAqqi)
550
will she help campaign for McCain?
I assume you mean in his run for reelection. If it were me I wouldnt but I think she is a better person than me. She probably would.
I assume you mean in his run for reelection. If it were me I wouldnt but I think she is a better person than me. She probably would.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 01:23 PM (5ynkO)
551
Hope you don't mind guys but Mike over at ColdFury I think puts it nicely concerning her lawyers:
Action the hell out of the sons of bitches. Cant remember where,
but somewhere in my internet wanderings the last few days I saw the
notion advanced that Palin quit because as governor she was legally
constrained from siccing the lawyers on the miserable Democrat
Socialist worms who have been filing frivolous ethics complaints
against her (15 of 15 dismissed so far) and otherwise smearing,
defaming, and generally tormenting her and her family for the past year
or so, in an effort to harass her out of politics and destroy their
lives because of her political beliefs. This person, whoever it was,
said that Palins primary motivation for leaving was that she couldnt
devote proper time to her duties as governor and at the same time fight
back against the swinish thugs as she wished. Looks like that just
mightve been the case.
Sue them, bankrupt them, ruin their lives, destroy their careers,
shut down their blogs and other propaganda outlets, get em locked up
wherever possible. Kick them in the teeth again and again, until they
howl in pain from the gutter they roll in. Scorch the very earth under
their feet. Unleash pure hell on them, and make every single day of
their lives a horror and a misery just as they did to you, just as
theyve done to so many other decent men and women who have the
temerity to disagree with their anti-American ideal of what this
country should be. Liberal asswipes have gotten away with this sort of
thing for far too long.
Palins political career is over, you say? If she takes the fight to
the villainous curs and sees to it that they get what they so richly
deserve for abusing our legal system and undermining our system of
government, every true conservative in the country will cheer her loud
and long, and will eagerly cast their votes for her in whatever
election she decides to contest which would be a welcome change from
dragging ourselves to the polls with reluctance and dismay. Hopefully,
this is but the opening salvo in a long, vigorous, and thorough fight.
Well see. If Palin keeps after them, the sky will be the limit for
her. Weve been waiting for this a long time, and shes just the person
to make it happen.
Reap the whirlwind, you odious, gutless, evil pricks. Well fix your little red wagon yet; wait and see if we dont.
Bravo. Bravo.
Action the hell out of the sons of bitches. Cant remember where,
but somewhere in my internet wanderings the last few days I saw the
notion advanced that Palin quit because as governor she was legally
constrained from siccing the lawyers on the miserable Democrat
Socialist worms who have been filing frivolous ethics complaints
against her (15 of 15 dismissed so far) and otherwise smearing,
defaming, and generally tormenting her and her family for the past year
or so, in an effort to harass her out of politics and destroy their
lives because of her political beliefs. This person, whoever it was,
said that Palins primary motivation for leaving was that she couldnt
devote proper time to her duties as governor and at the same time fight
back against the swinish thugs as she wished. Looks like that just
mightve been the case.
Sue them, bankrupt them, ruin their lives, destroy their careers,
shut down their blogs and other propaganda outlets, get em locked up
wherever possible. Kick them in the teeth again and again, until they
howl in pain from the gutter they roll in. Scorch the very earth under
their feet. Unleash pure hell on them, and make every single day of
their lives a horror and a misery just as they did to you, just as
theyve done to so many other decent men and women who have the
temerity to disagree with their anti-American ideal of what this
country should be. Liberal asswipes have gotten away with this sort of
thing for far too long.
Palins political career is over, you say? If she takes the fight to
the villainous curs and sees to it that they get what they so richly
deserve for abusing our legal system and undermining our system of
government, every true conservative in the country will cheer her loud
and long, and will eagerly cast their votes for her in whatever
election she decides to contest which would be a welcome change from
dragging ourselves to the polls with reluctance and dismay. Hopefully,
this is but the opening salvo in a long, vigorous, and thorough fight.
Well see. If Palin keeps after them, the sky will be the limit for
her. Weve been waiting for this a long time, and shes just the person
to make it happen.
Reap the whirlwind, you odious, gutless, evil pricks. Well fix your little red wagon yet; wait and see if we dont.
Bravo. Bravo.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:29 PM (yAqqi)
552
Trish@558, that's a really interesting question.
Given the treatment of his people toward her, and his fairly lukewarm defenses of her, I'd hope she'd simply occupy herself elsewhere. If she did campaign for him, it would potentially bespeak of the kind of back washing chumminess that I'm frankly sick of seeing.
Maybe the best thing would be a sort of don't ask/don't refuse arrangement between the two of them.
Given the treatment of his people toward her, and his fairly lukewarm defenses of her, I'd hope she'd simply occupy herself elsewhere. If she did campaign for him, it would potentially bespeak of the kind of back washing chumminess that I'm frankly sick of seeing.
Maybe the best thing would be a sort of don't ask/don't refuse arrangement between the two of them.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:30 PM (ZqTlA)
553
I was referring to his re-election campaign, Vic. I was thinking about all the backstabbing from the staffers and McCain's tepid lack of verbal support for Sarah. She always says nice things about him, I wondered if all that might be out the door now. I bet she helps him especially if he might be having troubles.
Posted by: Trish at July 05, 2009 01:31 PM (0U5Kd)
554
It would be nice to see that Celtic Orca (to quote Jim Treacher) scrunt have to pay a few legal bills.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:33 PM (ZqTlA)
555
I hope so too Kensington. That woman is evil personified. I am curious to see if the Alaska dems or the DNC will help her.
Posted by: Trish at July 05, 2009 01:34 PM (0U5Kd)
556
559
Long-term unemployment does wonders for self-esteem, self-confidence and general spirits.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:20 PM (ZqTlA)
Yeah, they told me "Get a fuckin degree and you can write your own ticket!" Yeah how is that working out for me.Douchebags
A-flippin-men. I am 8 months unemployed and all job leads have dried up. Now, I spend all day on the internet reading AoS. Before, I got PAID to spend all day on the internet reading AoS.
life sucks!
Long-term unemployment does wonders for self-esteem, self-confidence and general spirits.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:20 PM (ZqTlA)
Yeah, they told me "Get a fuckin degree and you can write your own ticket!" Yeah how is that working out for me.Douchebags
A-flippin-men. I am 8 months unemployed and all job leads have dried up. Now, I spend all day on the internet reading AoS. Before, I got PAID to spend all day on the internet reading AoS.
life sucks!
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 01:40 PM (pLs/O)
557
Rush says some bloggers are recovering from a bad case of Premature Speculation. It's a near epidemic.
Posted by: wHodat at July 05, 2009 01:42 PM (+sBB4)
558
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 01:40 PM (pLs/O)
Whats pathetic is the requirements some places want. I have even applied online to cell phone companies for cheezy as jobs to get one, and for just sales at a cell phone co. one of the requirements was "Must have 10 years experience selling mobile tech.).
Are you fucking kidding me? For a 30,000 dollar a year gig? I have been in sales my whole life and you give me a product and I will sell it but that is just ridiculous.
Whats pathetic is the requirements some places want. I have even applied online to cell phone companies for cheezy as jobs to get one, and for just sales at a cell phone co. one of the requirements was "Must have 10 years experience selling mobile tech.).
Are you fucking kidding me? For a 30,000 dollar a year gig? I have been in sales my whole life and you give me a product and I will sell it but that is just ridiculous.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:46 PM (yAqqi)
559
Rush says some bloggers are recovering from a bad case of Premature Speculation. It's a near epidemic.
This is partly Palin's fault. She dropped this bomb with little explanation. She has been in politics long enough to know the stink this would cause. Or at least she should know if she is a brilliant politician as some say she is.
Maybe this is part of her strategy.
tink
This is partly Palin's fault. She dropped this bomb with little explanation. She has been in politics long enough to know the stink this would cause. Or at least she should know if she is a brilliant politician as some say she is.
Maybe this is part of her strategy.
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 01:49 PM (pLs/O)
560
Yeah, wHodat, Radio Equalizer's got some interesting links, including both Rush's and Ann Coulter's takes on the matter.
"Wait and see" just seems so much more eminently reasonable than "stick a fork in her."
"Wait and see" just seems so much more eminently reasonable than "stick a fork in her."
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 01:52 PM (ZqTlA)
561
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:46 PM (yAqqi)
So you didn't get the call center job? Dude, that is sad. I was the Dir of HR in a call center for several years and lets just say...you're probably better off collecting unemployment. They have some interesting folks that work in call centers. On the upside, my days were never boring and I have funny 'stupid people" stories to tell at dinner parties.
I'm in the "over qualified" category. I am doing consulting right now, and even those gigs are drying up.
But that's ok. My new plan is to make millions with my blog. I get tons of emails everyday saying how I can make $20K/mo just by posting links on my website!!!! So far, I have made $2.23 for the month of June. So, I am on my way!!!
tink
So you didn't get the call center job? Dude, that is sad. I was the Dir of HR in a call center for several years and lets just say...you're probably better off collecting unemployment. They have some interesting folks that work in call centers. On the upside, my days were never boring and I have funny 'stupid people" stories to tell at dinner parties.
I'm in the "over qualified" category. I am doing consulting right now, and even those gigs are drying up.
But that's ok. My new plan is to make millions with my blog. I get tons of emails everyday saying how I can make $20K/mo just by posting links on my website!!!! So far, I have made $2.23 for the month of June. So, I am on my way!!!
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 01:57 PM (pLs/O)
562
Lets partition the current actions of Gov. Palin into 2 areas, framed by the following 2 questions:
1. Was resigning the correct/best choice, or a very bad choice?
2. What is the future of her political career?
I see a number of polarly-opposite opinions about resigning; it ended her career / it was a shrewd move.
Does resignation end the ability to file new frivolous lawsuits? Does it make going after the plaintiffs easier, and recouping the costs they caused Gov. Palin to incur?
At the very least, resigning limits the damage to Gov. Palins reputation; however much there is, there will only be the resignation damage, and no more. Given the number of frivolous lawsuits (Palins 15-0) and cost, and the MSMs attitude biased reporting / non-investigation, resignation may have been the only reasonable action.
I also see a number of polarly-opposite opinions regarding Gov. Palins career: its over / its about to takeoff.
I dont think her political career is dead, or even close, but the 2010 campaign starts in 6-8 months, and many things can happen between now and then. Then theres 2012.
Gov. Palin might simply decide not to continue in politics. I know more than a few women who still consider Gov. Palin not up to the job of VP, but they cant seem to say why, even though Slow Joe is less capable than most high school class VPs. I fear this attitude on the part of many voters will not end.
But 2010 might reveal a radically-changed electorate. This is one of the results that Gov. Palin and many others need to see.
Lets partition the current actions of Gov. Palin into 2 areas, framed by the following 2 questions:
1. Was resigning the correct/best choice, or a very bad choice?
2. What is the future of her political career?
I see a number of polarly-opposite opinions about resigning; it ended her career / it was a shrewd move.
Does resignation end the ability to file new frivolous lawsuits? Does it make going after the plaintiffs easier, and recouping the costs they caused Gov. Palin to incur?
At the very least, resigning limits the damage to Gov. Palins reputation; however much there is, there will only be the resignation damage, and no more. Given the number of frivolous lawsuits (Palins 15-0) and cost, and the MSMs attitude biased reporting / non-investigation, resignation may have been the only reasonable action.
I also see a number of polarly-opposite opinions regarding Gov. Palins career: its over / its about to takeoff.
I dont think her political career is dead, or even close, but the 2010 campaign starts in 6-8 months, and many things can happen between now and then. Then theres 2012.
Gov. Palin might simply decide not to continue in politics. I know more than a few women who still consider Gov. Palin not up to the job of VP, but they cant seem to say why, even though Slow Joe is less capable than most high school class VPs. I fear this attitude on the part of many voters will not end.
But 2010 might reveal a radically-changed electorate. This is one of the results that Gov. Palin and many others need to see.
Posted by: Arbalest at July 05, 2009 01:57 PM (2ymvt)
563
So far, I have made $2.23 for the month of June. So, I am on my way!!!
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 01:57 PM (pLs/O)
So if you start 9,999 more blogs you will make your 20K!
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 01:57 PM (pLs/O)
So if you start 9,999 more blogs you will make your 20K!
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:59 PM (yAqqi)
564
These were not really lawsuits. They were ethics violation accusations that had to be responded to by her personally. (I know screwed up law that she started and the legislature fixed). These accusations cost the accuser nothing and yet she had to have an attorney to answer them. Resigning stops those cold, or at least means she no longer has to respond to them.
It also allows her to sue as a private citizen rather than the governor. That changes a lot of assumptions with respect to libel. As a matter of fact, her attorney has already indicated that they are looking into it.
It also allows her to sue as a private citizen rather than the governor. That changes a lot of assumptions with respect to libel. As a matter of fact, her attorney has already indicated that they are looking into it.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 02:03 PM (5ynkO)
565
@546
Ace,
Yes, resigning is a big thing, however it depends on what she does next.
Look at this as if Palin were a business woman and the governorship her business. If you're an ambitious businessman, do you keep riding that same pony no matter what into bankruptcy?
If you're unable to grow and compete effectively because of malicious/libelous actions by rivals, if that rigors of that business are destroying your family, if the returns on your investment are diminishing and may prove ruinous to your future plans, do you stay or cut your losses and move on and up?
I know what I'd do.
But I'd have a plan.
As I see it, for Palin to compete effectively she has to change the game. One way to change things is to plug into a ready made but unexploited niche/market - the Tea Party movement is an example. If I were her, that's where I'd set my sights.
I'd also set forward a few core policies - energy, taxes, etc that are easily understood by the masses and only help those R's to get elected who follow them.
So, yeah, if you want to think of it as quitting, you can and it may well be. Right now, I see it as a smart business move.
Ace,
Yes, resigning is a big thing, however it depends on what she does next.
Look at this as if Palin were a business woman and the governorship her business. If you're an ambitious businessman, do you keep riding that same pony no matter what into bankruptcy?
If you're unable to grow and compete effectively because of malicious/libelous actions by rivals, if that rigors of that business are destroying your family, if the returns on your investment are diminishing and may prove ruinous to your future plans, do you stay or cut your losses and move on and up?
I know what I'd do.
But I'd have a plan.
As I see it, for Palin to compete effectively she has to change the game. One way to change things is to plug into a ready made but unexploited niche/market - the Tea Party movement is an example. If I were her, that's where I'd set my sights.
I'd also set forward a few core policies - energy, taxes, etc that are easily understood by the masses and only help those R's to get elected who follow them.
So, yeah, if you want to think of it as quitting, you can and it may well be. Right now, I see it as a smart business move.
Posted by: The Commissar of Love at July 05, 2009 02:08 PM (oEAm5)
566
This from a link on her personal Twitter feed regarding media reaction to Friday:
"And though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I make."
She makes mention of her family but mainly she talks about doing the right thing for her state. Maybe ace can torture that into a belief she's going into the ministry. I don't see how one avoids interpreting 'higher calling' as national aspirations of some sort. Ace, I think it's safe to say that we are basically right about her intentions and you're wrong.
Now if you want to say you aren't willing to stick your neck out for her as the train leaves the station, fine that's you're call to make. We'll keep a seat warm for you.
"And though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I make."
She makes mention of her family but mainly she talks about doing the right thing for her state. Maybe ace can torture that into a belief she's going into the ministry. I don't see how one avoids interpreting 'higher calling' as national aspirations of some sort. Ace, I think it's safe to say that we are basically right about her intentions and you're wrong.
Now if you want to say you aren't willing to stick your neck out for her as the train leaves the station, fine that's you're call to make. We'll keep a seat warm for you.
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 02:16 PM (LxYp2)
567
#575 Vic
Youve confirmed what Ive read / suspected.
I assume that all of the complaints are to be reviewed by her attorney. I wonder if an investigation will reveal any connections between the various plaintiffs. What will it be? Who will be implicated? How much money do they have and where do they get it?
#575 Vic
Youve confirmed what Ive read / suspected.
I assume that all of the complaints are to be reviewed by her attorney. I wonder if an investigation will reveal any connections between the various plaintiffs. What will it be? Who will be implicated? How much money do they have and where do they get it?
Posted by: Arbalest at July 05, 2009 02:20 PM (2ymvt)
568
"As I see it, for Palin to compete effectively she has to change the game. One way to change things is to plug into a ready made but unexploited niche/market-the Tea Party movement is an example. If I were her, that'swhere I'd set my sights."
Exactly, she is doing what is now required to be accepted as a presidential viable....becoming a "community organizer".
Exactly, she is doing what is now required to be accepted as a presidential viable....becoming a "community organizer".
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 02:27 PM (d3dk0)
569
Wow, if this is the same DrewM on twitter I really don't know what to say.
From DrewMTips
@allahpundit, Remember when it was fun to knock people for slavish devotion to a politician like say, Obama? Good times, Good times.
Well, if you show me where Sarah hung out with a radical preacher for a decade and started her political career with an unapologetic terrorist and I STILL support her then yes, I would say it would be right that you mock me for my "devotion".
More
"How can you tell this is a disaster? The Palin KoolAid gang love it. Cult members are a good contra indicator"
Oh well, Allah and gang are having a blast mocking her. Good times, good times.
From DrewMTips
@allahpundit, Remember when it was fun to knock people for slavish devotion to a politician like say, Obama? Good times, Good times.
Well, if you show me where Sarah hung out with a radical preacher for a decade and started her political career with an unapologetic terrorist and I STILL support her then yes, I would say it would be right that you mock me for my "devotion".
More
"How can you tell this is a disaster? The Palin KoolAid gang love it. Cult members are a good contra indicator"
Oh well, Allah and gang are having a blast mocking her. Good times, good times.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:42 PM (yAqqi)
570
Twitter can certainly be eye-opening.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 02:45 PM (ZqTlA)
571
Allahpundit's been drifting off his own way for a while now. Goodbye and good riddance.
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 02:46 PM (LxYp2)
572
Wow, if this is the same DrewM on twitter I really don't know what to say.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:42 PM (yAqqi)
Yep but you have to realize that was in response to a Paterico article he linked to on that topic.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:42 PM (yAqqi)
Yep but you have to realize that was in response to a Paterico article he linked to on that topic.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 02:53 PM (iTt2X)
573
Man, if you have contempt or at the very least no respect then just say it. I would respect someone more if they did that. Ace came out and laid it down and I respect that.
But for all these "conservative" bloggers or posters to scurry away to an internet speakeasy to share their true feelings amongst themselves speaks volumes. Oh well, I guess its time to move on.
But for all these "conservative" bloggers or posters to scurry away to an internet speakeasy to share their true feelings amongst themselves speaks volumes. Oh well, I guess its time to move on.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:56 PM (yAqqi)
574
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 02:53 PM (iTt2X)
And I read the article a while ago and thought it a good one. But come on Drew, you aren't going to give me the ole "in context" argument are you? If that is what you believe thats ok, were good, but please say it here.
Not that you really give a shit if we're "good" or not. just saying.
And I read the article a while ago and thought it a good one. But come on Drew, you aren't going to give me the ole "in context" argument are you? If that is what you believe thats ok, were good, but please say it here.
Not that you really give a shit if we're "good" or not. just saying.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:59 PM (yAqqi)
575
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:42 PM (yAqqi)
What I took from this is- he is saying that you should be able to provide or express constructive criticism without being labeled a "hater" or written off as having some ulterior, supersecret motive.
Or as he put it, be like the Obama supporters who lose their minds if you criticize their messiah. His point is, he is seeing this same type of behavior here and on hot Air.
Well, if you show me where Sarah hung out with a radical preacher for a
decade and started her political career with an unapologetic terrorist
and I STILL support her then yes, I would say it would be right that
you mock me for my "devotion".
but that's just it, the Obama supporters don't see Obama as some kind of radical...he's one of them and they don't see anything wrong with who they are. They think Sarah Palin is the Jesus-Freak-leader-of -the-God-Squad-gonna-make-everyone-convert wacko. Obama supporters see Palin the same way Palin supporters see Obama. An out-of-touch nutcase.
I think the point Drew and AP are making is Palin supporters are exhibiting the same characteristics as Obama supporters - which conervatives/republicans have always made fun of. Can't really make fun of Obama supporters for going nuts when Palin supporters are doing the same thing.
tink
What I took from this is- he is saying that you should be able to provide or express constructive criticism without being labeled a "hater" or written off as having some ulterior, supersecret motive.
Or as he put it, be like the Obama supporters who lose their minds if you criticize their messiah. His point is, he is seeing this same type of behavior here and on hot Air.
Well, if you show me where Sarah hung out with a radical preacher for a
decade and started her political career with an unapologetic terrorist
and I STILL support her then yes, I would say it would be right that
you mock me for my "devotion".
but that's just it, the Obama supporters don't see Obama as some kind of radical...he's one of them and they don't see anything wrong with who they are. They think Sarah Palin is the Jesus-Freak-leader-of -the-God-Squad-gonna-make-everyone-convert wacko. Obama supporters see Palin the same way Palin supporters see Obama. An out-of-touch nutcase.
I think the point Drew and AP are making is Palin supporters are exhibiting the same characteristics as Obama supporters - which conervatives/republicans have always made fun of. Can't really make fun of Obama supporters for going nuts when Palin supporters are doing the same thing.
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 03:00 PM (pLs/O)
576
Man, if you have contempt or at the very least no respect then just say it.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:56 PM (yAqqi)
For who or what?
I've made it quite clear here that there are a lot of people who support Palin who are not rationale about her.
I don't think everyone who supports Palin is a cult member but I've been called a RINO, a closeted (and uncloseted ) Obama supporter and all sorts of other things for simply not declaring myself 100% committed to supporting her. I'm not whining about it but those are the kind of people who I think are cultists. They exist.
140 characters on Twitter don't allow for that kind of explanation but I think my blog posts and comments here have left a fairly large record of my thoughts on Palin. If you look at them you'll see I've always been respectful of Palin and have often written about her many strengths but yet every time I do that I know there will be a bunch who will jump out and claim it just this side of treason to the party, the movement and maybe even the country. So yeah, I'm kind of ok calling those people cultists.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 02:56 PM (yAqqi)
For who or what?
I've made it quite clear here that there are a lot of people who support Palin who are not rationale about her.
I don't think everyone who supports Palin is a cult member but I've been called a RINO, a closeted (and uncloseted ) Obama supporter and all sorts of other things for simply not declaring myself 100% committed to supporting her. I'm not whining about it but those are the kind of people who I think are cultists. They exist.
140 characters on Twitter don't allow for that kind of explanation but I think my blog posts and comments here have left a fairly large record of my thoughts on Palin. If you look at them you'll see I've always been respectful of Palin and have often written about her many strengths but yet every time I do that I know there will be a bunch who will jump out and claim it just this side of treason to the party, the movement and maybe even the country. So yeah, I'm kind of ok calling those people cultists.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 03:02 PM (iTt2X)
577
Ace, DrewM, Russ et al:If Sarah opened a Vodka/Pig Slaughter/Hobo Trap factory would you get on board?
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:21 PM (yAqqi)
I'm insulted that you even feel that this is a question that needs to be asked. I think I speak for the entire staff here at the HQ when I say............HELL YEAH!
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 01:21 PM (yAqqi)
I'm insulted that you even feel that this is a question that needs to be asked. I think I speak for the entire staff here at the HQ when I say............HELL YEAH!
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at July 05, 2009 03:05 PM (/MEFr)
578
Maybe I am in the minority of people who have been supportive of the governor for quite a while, but have had that supportive attitude just continually eroded by her erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior.
We are talking about a person who could have, in a slightly different scenario, been President of the United States. Whether we like the people who occupy the office at any one period in time, they have to have emotional maturity, stability and judgment.
A slip up or two is to be expected of course, but in our quest to maintain our partisan positioning, we are missing the point that I believe the pressures and demands of this job are simply too much for this individual.
Watching that speech, she not only lost my long-standing support, I am concerned for her mental well being and health.
Blame that on who you will, it does not change the fact that dear Ms Palin is simply not cut out for this particular profession.
We are talking about a person who could have, in a slightly different scenario, been President of the United States. Whether we like the people who occupy the office at any one period in time, they have to have emotional maturity, stability and judgment.
A slip up or two is to be expected of course, but in our quest to maintain our partisan positioning, we are missing the point that I believe the pressures and demands of this job are simply too much for this individual.
Watching that speech, she not only lost my long-standing support, I am concerned for her mental well being and health.
Blame that on who you will, it does not change the fact that dear Ms Palin is simply not cut out for this particular profession.
Posted by: Mike at July 05, 2009 03:09 PM (0Z4Kp)
579
BTW, now the meme is "LA Times is a rightwing rag" about their interview with the FBI agent and that he doesnt know what he is talking about.
That perhaps its the IRS or DOJ investigating her.
That its actually TODD Palin being investigated because he built the house! So the FBI agent was correct when he was asked was SARAH under investigation.
And of course they are ALL screaming "How can a politician threaten bloggers when we have free speech!!!11!" Shes a thug.
That perhaps its the IRS or DOJ investigating her.
That its actually TODD Palin being investigated because he built the house! So the FBI agent was correct when he was asked was SARAH under investigation.
And of course they are ALL screaming "How can a politician threaten bloggers when we have free speech!!!11!" Shes a thug.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 03:13 PM (yAqqi)
580
Oh, thanks Mike. We'll definitely take your comments under consideration, 'cause you genuinely seem.......... concerned.
Posted by: Editor at July 05, 2009 03:15 PM (en7mZ)
581
592
Maybe I am in the minority of people who have been supportive of the
governor for quite a while, but have had that supportive attitude just
continually eroded by her erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior.
Is that the new 'I'm a staunch conservation but....' line?
Maybe I am in the minority of people who have been supportive of the
governor for quite a while, but have had that supportive attitude just
continually eroded by her erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior.
Is that the new 'I'm a staunch conservation but....' line?
Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 03:17 PM (VuLos)
582
They think Sarah Palin is the Jesus-Freak-leader-of
-the-God-Squad-gonna-make-everyone-convert wacko. Obama supporters see
Palin the same way Palin supporters see Obama.
And there in lies the rub. With one section we can point to things Obama has DONE that his voters will wish away.
Obama drones cant point to anything she has done except what she represents. If she started her career at the home of the person that leads that secessionist movement she would have never been allowed on the ticket last year. If it came out afterwards, she wouldnt have survived. Thats the difference. A big one.
-the-God-Squad-gonna-make-everyone-convert wacko. Obama supporters see
Palin the same way Palin supporters see Obama.
And there in lies the rub. With one section we can point to things Obama has DONE that his voters will wish away.
Obama drones cant point to anything she has done except what she represents. If she started her career at the home of the person that leads that secessionist movement she would have never been allowed on the ticket last year. If it came out afterwards, she wouldnt have survived. Thats the difference. A big one.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 03:20 PM (yAqqi)
583
Yes, Mike, you're totally credible. How long has that concerned christain conservative thing bee going now?
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 03:22 PM (LxYp2)
584
So yeah, I'm kind of ok calling those people cultists.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 03:02 PM (iTt2X)
Thank you! Even though I don't think anyone that criticizes her is a traitor and I think I have made that clear. I would just wish those who feel the way you do about a certain section of those supporters would just say it here.If I see someone calling you that after you mention it, a nice "fuck off" would be completely ok by me.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 03:02 PM (iTt2X)
Thank you! Even though I don't think anyone that criticizes her is a traitor and I think I have made that clear. I would just wish those who feel the way you do about a certain section of those supporters would just say it here.If I see someone calling you that after you mention it, a nice "fuck off" would be completely ok by me.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 03:23 PM (yAqqi)
585
ace at July 05, 2009 12:33 PM (JQ+0C):
As a thought experiment, I'd ask the Palin 2012 people this: If she
doesn't run for President, would you be disappointed in her?
Simply, no. She can do what she wants. I see a decent human who did right. That's enough. I still want her to lead the conservatives but understand her plight. Were I in her shoes, I'd be making the, I think, exact same decisions. She connects with my sense of practicality. But who knows? She has more balls and has faced waaaay more acute attacks personally and professionally than I have or could have in dozens of lifetimes - more than any person I've ever seen. She's infinitely more skilled than I am, so whatever she does, she'll be good. I'd hope she share her wealth, so to speak, with a nation that needs her decency and vision. You don't have a monopoly on thinking that you have more sympathy for Palin's situation because you don't back her now like I do now. I had to learn to like her. It's not going away because she decided not to follow the paths "everyone," particularly the punditry asshats, seems to think is the only one that is proper.
"Why do YOU have faith that her personal/familial interests are
perfectly, exactly congruent with your own interests, and why do YOU
have faith that she will choose to fulfill YOUR hopes and expectations
rather than her own?"
Isn't that kind of assuming she exists primarily on your behalf?
Guess what? I know for a fact that there are areas where I wholly disagree with her so I know she doesn't match me perfectly. But she accomplished the smaller government principles she espoused. If she didn't accomplish them, it wasn't for a lack of trying. She's worked her way up and done the dirty work. She's fought the institutionally corrupt system we go on at great lengths here to ridicule. She lives what she says. She says what she means. That's refreshing and practically absent in today's political class. So, no, this is not some worship in a faith that she'll tow my exact line. I know she won't. But she'll tow enough of it in a respectful, honest manner and in a way that mocks the current system, the very system that is failing us so spectacularly.
I see greatness even if she doesn't do anything else. I also see the cesspool around her and worry more about what it says about our nation that we would accept the assaults on her, on her office (See Alinsky Rules for Radicals), on decent human beings who try to reduce the scope of government in a forthright, transparent manner. The loss of Palin, if she is driven out, is just another dead canary in the coalmine of the status of our country and marking its further descent. That's why I fight for her in this "emotional" or "cultish" manner.
So, rather than just say, "Eh, I'll just get another canary," I'm opting to try and save one and then change the coalmine. The one we have is toxic. It's, oh, what's the word... pragmatic.
As a thought experiment, I'd ask the Palin 2012 people this: If she
doesn't run for President, would you be disappointed in her?
Simply, no. She can do what she wants. I see a decent human who did right. That's enough. I still want her to lead the conservatives but understand her plight. Were I in her shoes, I'd be making the, I think, exact same decisions. She connects with my sense of practicality. But who knows? She has more balls and has faced waaaay more acute attacks personally and professionally than I have or could have in dozens of lifetimes - more than any person I've ever seen. She's infinitely more skilled than I am, so whatever she does, she'll be good. I'd hope she share her wealth, so to speak, with a nation that needs her decency and vision. You don't have a monopoly on thinking that you have more sympathy for Palin's situation because you don't back her now like I do now. I had to learn to like her. It's not going away because she decided not to follow the paths "everyone," particularly the punditry asshats, seems to think is the only one that is proper.
"Why do YOU have faith that her personal/familial interests are
perfectly, exactly congruent with your own interests, and why do YOU
have faith that she will choose to fulfill YOUR hopes and expectations
rather than her own?"
Isn't that kind of assuming she exists primarily on your behalf?
Guess what? I know for a fact that there are areas where I wholly disagree with her so I know she doesn't match me perfectly. But she accomplished the smaller government principles she espoused. If she didn't accomplish them, it wasn't for a lack of trying. She's worked her way up and done the dirty work. She's fought the institutionally corrupt system we go on at great lengths here to ridicule. She lives what she says. She says what she means. That's refreshing and practically absent in today's political class. So, no, this is not some worship in a faith that she'll tow my exact line. I know she won't. But she'll tow enough of it in a respectful, honest manner and in a way that mocks the current system, the very system that is failing us so spectacularly.
I see greatness even if she doesn't do anything else. I also see the cesspool around her and worry more about what it says about our nation that we would accept the assaults on her, on her office (See Alinsky Rules for Radicals), on decent human beings who try to reduce the scope of government in a forthright, transparent manner. The loss of Palin, if she is driven out, is just another dead canary in the coalmine of the status of our country and marking its further descent. That's why I fight for her in this "emotional" or "cultish" manner.
So, rather than just say, "Eh, I'll just get another canary," I'm opting to try and save one and then change the coalmine. The one we have is toxic. It's, oh, what's the word... pragmatic.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 03:26 PM (rZ235)
Posted by: Mike at July 05, 2009 03:29 PM (0Z4Kp)
587
Regarding the Paterico article, I wonder if ace and ed and such are getting the message that her support among the voting masses which actually matter in elections hasn't gone anywhere? I mean I see where you guys get skittish, and ace has quite aways to climb back of the limb from Friday, but I have faith that ace at least will come around the same way he did on 'I hope he fails' and TARP.
Yes, quitting the governorship is a notable action. How does that change the fact that Obama is deliberately dismantling our country and the GOP is nowhere to be found?
You may say Palin can't win, for the sake of saying it. You may say you no longer support her, for the sake of saying it. You can call me delusional, despite the evidence on our side (heck I'm already a racist for opposing Obama, so what difference does it make). You are then left with the burden of answering the question::
If not Sarah Palin, then who?
Yes, quitting the governorship is a notable action. How does that change the fact that Obama is deliberately dismantling our country and the GOP is nowhere to be found?
You may say Palin can't win, for the sake of saying it. You may say you no longer support her, for the sake of saying it. You can call me delusional, despite the evidence on our side (heck I'm already a racist for opposing Obama, so what difference does it make). You are then left with the burden of answering the question::
If not Sarah Palin, then who?
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 03:31 PM (LxYp2)
588
Well, it is the Republican Motto: There's no fire like friendly fire.
Posted by: Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at July 05, 2009 03:31 PM (or0jG)
589
>>>t is not just a Sarah Palin thing, but what she represents. Most of us conservatives feel like we have been abandoned since Reagan left office. And we are about ready to tell the elites to find another set of suckers.
>>>We are battling over the soul of the Republican Party. Will it be a permanent version of Demo-Lite searching for that mythological undecided voter while abandoning core principles or will it return to core values of small government and individual freedom?
But you are confusing two things: That battle of which you speak, and the strictly factual question of Palin's current intentions and viability.
Because you want a certain outcome on the first question you assume the answers for the second are congruent with the first.
Further, many (not necessarily you) wrongly assume that if I or other "RINOs!!!!" say "Palin doesn't want this anymore, she's out," we're not saying that because we happen to think its true on its own merits, but rather we are saying that because we are "RINOs!!11!!!" and WANT the "squishes" to win and therefore want the committed conservatives' best hope to lose.
1) I agree Sarah Palin was the best hope of the committed conservatives.
2) I am a conservative myself. I won't argue about whether I'm the most conservative.
3) I wanted her to run and win.
4) For that to happen I figured she would have to address her chief weakness (whether that weakness is real or perceived, it doesn't matter, she needs to address it).
5) Whatever my HOPES are/were re: Palin, my belief is that she no longer has the desire for elective office and even if she reverses this later, she has badly damaged her chances. I would not say "irreparably" damaged, because who knows. But seriously damaged, requiring... something to cure it.
6) And, again, my beliefs as to what her intentions are and what remains of her viability are NO INDICATION of what I might wish them to be.
Again, this is like the Giants/Eagles playoffs game. I predicted the Eagles would win, easily. They did. This was not a statement of what I WANTED, being a Giants fan since I was in gradeschool.
Too many people don't like negative predictions or analyses and dislike them so much they rush to discredit them by suggesting bad motives on the part of those offering them, frequently postulating that if one judges that Palin has no intent to run for higher office and has serverly damaged her viability ipso facto that means the person is happy with this state of affairs and in fact would have wished it to be this way.
Not true. Prediction/analysis =/= desire/hope. I predicted Obama would win and the Dems would gain in Congress; I was right. But that had nothing at all to do with my rooting interest.
I (and others here) got a lot of grief for posting what turned out to be accurate though negative assessments of the 2008 elections (not negative enough, as it turns out; few predicted 60 seats for the Dems, though when DrewM raised this as a possibility, he had his ass chewed off as a Defeatist and MSM butt-boy).
As you can tell, I am really tired of this insistence that everyone be relentless cheerleaders and fill their predictions and analyses with nothing but positive assessments, even when such optimism is greatly, gravely misplaced.
>>>We are battling over the soul of the Republican Party. Will it be a permanent version of Demo-Lite searching for that mythological undecided voter while abandoning core principles or will it return to core values of small government and individual freedom?
But you are confusing two things: That battle of which you speak, and the strictly factual question of Palin's current intentions and viability.
Because you want a certain outcome on the first question you assume the answers for the second are congruent with the first.
Further, many (not necessarily you) wrongly assume that if I or other "RINOs!!!!" say "Palin doesn't want this anymore, she's out," we're not saying that because we happen to think its true on its own merits, but rather we are saying that because we are "RINOs!!11!!!" and WANT the "squishes" to win and therefore want the committed conservatives' best hope to lose.
1) I agree Sarah Palin was the best hope of the committed conservatives.
2) I am a conservative myself. I won't argue about whether I'm the most conservative.
3) I wanted her to run and win.
4) For that to happen I figured she would have to address her chief weakness (whether that weakness is real or perceived, it doesn't matter, she needs to address it).
5) Whatever my HOPES are/were re: Palin, my belief is that she no longer has the desire for elective office and even if she reverses this later, she has badly damaged her chances. I would not say "irreparably" damaged, because who knows. But seriously damaged, requiring... something to cure it.
6) And, again, my beliefs as to what her intentions are and what remains of her viability are NO INDICATION of what I might wish them to be.
Again, this is like the Giants/Eagles playoffs game. I predicted the Eagles would win, easily. They did. This was not a statement of what I WANTED, being a Giants fan since I was in gradeschool.
Too many people don't like negative predictions or analyses and dislike them so much they rush to discredit them by suggesting bad motives on the part of those offering them, frequently postulating that if one judges that Palin has no intent to run for higher office and has serverly damaged her viability ipso facto that means the person is happy with this state of affairs and in fact would have wished it to be this way.
Not true. Prediction/analysis =/= desire/hope. I predicted Obama would win and the Dems would gain in Congress; I was right. But that had nothing at all to do with my rooting interest.
I (and others here) got a lot of grief for posting what turned out to be accurate though negative assessments of the 2008 elections (not negative enough, as it turns out; few predicted 60 seats for the Dems, though when DrewM raised this as a possibility, he had his ass chewed off as a Defeatist and MSM butt-boy).
As you can tell, I am really tired of this insistence that everyone be relentless cheerleaders and fill their predictions and analyses with nothing but positive assessments, even when such optimism is greatly, gravely misplaced.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 03:33 PM (JQ+0C)
590
Russ:
This was great and stands in stark contrast to the Vichy GOP "help." It was also nice you didn't take the tone that you are the source of "truth" and "reality."
I would appreciate a careful examination of Palin's performance and achievements rather than the usual BS about her qualifications to be VP or President. As we now know the qualifications to be President include being born "somewhere" and having community organizer asexperience.
This was great and stands in stark contrast to the Vichy GOP "help." It was also nice you didn't take the tone that you are the source of "truth" and "reality."
I would appreciate a careful examination of Palin's performance and achievements rather than the usual BS about her qualifications to be VP or President. As we now know the qualifications to be President include being born "somewhere" and having community organizer asexperience.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at July 05, 2009 03:34 PM (B8gqF)
591
Mike, you'd be more plausible as one of our own if you'd put in the time convincing us of it first. Please read "Stuff Captain America Would Say" by palin steele and try again.
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 03:34 PM (LxYp2)
592
but have had that supportive attitude just continually eroded by her erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior.
Mike, you can't just throw this out there without people calling you on it. Be more specific. WHAT continually erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior?! And you can't site what she did on Friday as something that is 'continually erratic'. Tell us what you've seen before Friday that you define as erratic, cavalier and eccentric.
Mike, you can't just throw this out there without people calling you on it. Be more specific. WHAT continually erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior?! And you can't site what she did on Friday as something that is 'continually erratic'. Tell us what you've seen before Friday that you define as erratic, cavalier and eccentric.
Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 03:36 PM (VuLos)
593
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 03:20 PM (yAqqi)
Maybe we are talking about 2 different things...but I think this post:
594
Oh, thanks Mike. We'll definitely take your comments under consideration, 'cause you genuinely seem.......... concerned.
Posted by: Editor at July 05, 2009 03:15 PM (en7mZ)
and this post
595
Mike I'm sure that with your record of longstanding support, you may have realized that Sarah Palin is a Mrs.
Posted by: monkeyfan at July 05, 2009 03:15 PM (cEE8N)
and especially this post:Is that the new 'I'm a staunch conservation but....' line?
Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 03:17 PM (VuLos)
illustrate what Ace, DrewM,and AP are talking about. These post are saying if you don't support Palin 100%, you aren't a true conservative. If you question her judgment on some decisions she has made, then you're not a conservative.
What Ace, DrewM, and AP are saying is questioning Palin's judgement of dropping a bomb late on a holiday Friday with little explanation does not automatically make you a RINO.tink
Maybe we are talking about 2 different things...but I think this post:
594
Oh, thanks Mike. We'll definitely take your comments under consideration, 'cause you genuinely seem.......... concerned.
Posted by: Editor at July 05, 2009 03:15 PM (en7mZ)
and this post
595
Mike I'm sure that with your record of longstanding support, you may have realized that Sarah Palin is a Mrs.
Posted by: monkeyfan at July 05, 2009 03:15 PM (cEE8N)
and especially this post:Is that the new 'I'm a staunch conservation but....' line?
Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 03:17 PM (VuLos)
illustrate what Ace, DrewM,and AP are talking about. These post are saying if you don't support Palin 100%, you aren't a true conservative. If you question her judgment on some decisions she has made, then you're not a conservative.
What Ace, DrewM, and AP are saying is questioning Palin's judgement of dropping a bomb late on a holiday Friday with little explanation does not automatically make you a RINO.tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 03:40 PM (pLs/O)
594
As you can tell, I am really tired of this
insistence that everyone be relentless cheerleaders and fill their
predictions and analyses with nothing but positive assessments, even
when such optimism is greatly, gravely misplaced.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 03:33 PM (JQ+0C)
Fucking RINO!!!!I kid I kid - How about a little good news for the day concerning Cap and Tax in the Senate?Here are some stats from a lobbyist in DC:Still, McKenna notes that regional differences that complicated talks in the House will likely come up again in the Senate. Representatives from the Northeast and Pacific provided 110 of 219 yea
votes for the legislation. Those states have 28 senators. The remainder
of the nation voted against the legislation, 109-181. These states have
72 senators. While there are multiple complicating factors, the
regional nature of the vote may be and may remain important.
insistence that everyone be relentless cheerleaders and fill their
predictions and analyses with nothing but positive assessments, even
when such optimism is greatly, gravely misplaced.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 03:33 PM (JQ+0C)
Fucking RINO!!!!I kid I kid - How about a little good news for the day concerning Cap and Tax in the Senate?Here are some stats from a lobbyist in DC:Still, McKenna notes that regional differences that complicated talks in the House will likely come up again in the Senate. Representatives from the Northeast and Pacific provided 110 of 219 yea
votes for the legislation. Those states have 28 senators. The remainder
of the nation voted against the legislation, 109-181. These states have
72 senators. While there are multiple complicating factors, the
regional nature of the vote may be and may remain important.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 03:40 PM (yAqqi)
595
>>>Regarding the Paterico article, I wonder if ace and ed and such are getting the message that her support among the voting masses which actually matter in elections hasn't gone anywhere?
I cannot continue to debate whether the "polls are all wrong." This argument was trotted out time and time again during the 2006 and 2008 campaigns and it turns out that most polls were fairly accurate. the average of all the polls was close enough to the actual outcome.
You can tell me about the masses of support palin has until the cows come home. Until "masses" becomes "> 50% of the voting public," she loses, and it doesn't matter-- does not matter at all -- that the 30% who strongly support her really, strongly, passionately support her.
If you do not believe the polls, what can I say. You are free to believe she commands whatever level of popular support you wish to posit. 60%? If that's what you want to think, go ahead.
Based on the polls, which, really, are never THAT far off, even if they skew a few points to the Dems' side, only 44% had a positive view of palin. 44% had a positive view, a smaller number (I guess 30%) had a VERY postiive view.
a 44% positive rating is not enough to win an election even if every single person with a positive view votes for you -- which they won't, because a group of swing voters will have positive views of both Palin AND her challenger (both McCain and Obama enjoyed positive ratings >50%), and one can expect some of this positive-overlap vote to split, more or less equally.
To be viable Palin needs a positive rating of around 55%, at least, to give her a small amount of buffer in lost votes and still get to 50%.
44% will not cut it. I have suggested she bone up on policy or the like to grow that number above 50%, to get back near that wonderful 60% approval she had when she first debuted and hadn't been savaged by the press and come off shaky in interviews, but people get pissed at me for saying so, as if I'm making these numbers up or i I'm to blame for the fact that mathematics rules certain outcomes as very unlikely.
With all due respect, it was the people saying "Palin has to improve her command of policy and her reputation as a policy wonk to win" who actually had a good scenario for her hypothetical campaign in mind, while those saying "No, she doesn't have to change anything!" were in fact prescribing a medicine guaranteeing failure.
So, that's what I think about "masses." I think masses are great. But I think that "masses" of less than 50% national support are "masses" destined for disappointment and defeat.
If Palin had 55+% approval, I'd say the Palin supporters had some grounds to say "Shut up, she's fine as she is." At 44% -- no, you don't have any grounds to say that. You are only encouraging her to keep things at the status quo, and at the status quo, she loses.
So who's boosting her and who's sabotaging her?
And yeah, given the fact she was already under 50% support, I don't really understand how she had this excess support she could afford to alienate by resigning.
I cannot continue to debate whether the "polls are all wrong." This argument was trotted out time and time again during the 2006 and 2008 campaigns and it turns out that most polls were fairly accurate. the average of all the polls was close enough to the actual outcome.
You can tell me about the masses of support palin has until the cows come home. Until "masses" becomes "> 50% of the voting public," she loses, and it doesn't matter-- does not matter at all -- that the 30% who strongly support her really, strongly, passionately support her.
If you do not believe the polls, what can I say. You are free to believe she commands whatever level of popular support you wish to posit. 60%? If that's what you want to think, go ahead.
Based on the polls, which, really, are never THAT far off, even if they skew a few points to the Dems' side, only 44% had a positive view of palin. 44% had a positive view, a smaller number (I guess 30%) had a VERY postiive view.
a 44% positive rating is not enough to win an election even if every single person with a positive view votes for you -- which they won't, because a group of swing voters will have positive views of both Palin AND her challenger (both McCain and Obama enjoyed positive ratings >50%), and one can expect some of this positive-overlap vote to split, more or less equally.
To be viable Palin needs a positive rating of around 55%, at least, to give her a small amount of buffer in lost votes and still get to 50%.
44% will not cut it. I have suggested she bone up on policy or the like to grow that number above 50%, to get back near that wonderful 60% approval she had when she first debuted and hadn't been savaged by the press and come off shaky in interviews, but people get pissed at me for saying so, as if I'm making these numbers up or i I'm to blame for the fact that mathematics rules certain outcomes as very unlikely.
With all due respect, it was the people saying "Palin has to improve her command of policy and her reputation as a policy wonk to win" who actually had a good scenario for her hypothetical campaign in mind, while those saying "No, she doesn't have to change anything!" were in fact prescribing a medicine guaranteeing failure.
So, that's what I think about "masses." I think masses are great. But I think that "masses" of less than 50% national support are "masses" destined for disappointment and defeat.
If Palin had 55+% approval, I'd say the Palin supporters had some grounds to say "Shut up, she's fine as she is." At 44% -- no, you don't have any grounds to say that. You are only encouraging her to keep things at the status quo, and at the status quo, she loses.
So who's boosting her and who's sabotaging her?
And yeah, given the fact she was already under 50% support, I don't really understand how she had this excess support she could afford to alienate by resigning.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 03:46 PM (JQ+0C)
596
Goodness, ace, give the persecution complex a rest. If we really believed you were a RINO, none of us would be here. You are wrong about her intentions-just go look at her twitter. You are wrong about this having a catastrophic effect on her support-take a step back and look at the comments here by folks who have been around a while. Are we at 3000 comments for the weekend? 4000?
Please consider that you are viewing her decision through the lingering disappointment over Mark Sanford's implosion. I think you'll find that you're the one being emotional. That was my problem Friday.
Please consider that you are viewing her decision through the lingering disappointment over Mark Sanford's implosion. I think you'll find that you're the one being emotional. That was my problem Friday.
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 03:46 PM (LxYp2)
597
If you question her judgment on some decisions she has made, then you're not a conservative.
No Tinkerbella, what I'm questioning is the Mike's declaration that Palin has had a continually erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior. By that statement he is ingsuggest a long term pattern of her behavior. I don't think before Friday anyone here would have said, "You know what...it just suddenly occurred to me that Sarah Palin has an erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior." And many don't believe what she did on Friday was any of those things either...and yes, there are those that do think that one act, as big or small as it might be, is erractic. But even those people wouldn't call it a pattern, which is what Mike is implying.
So Mike comes off sounding Moby.
No Tinkerbella, what I'm questioning is the Mike's declaration that Palin has had a continually erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior. By that statement he is ingsuggest a long term pattern of her behavior. I don't think before Friday anyone here would have said, "You know what...it just suddenly occurred to me that Sarah Palin has an erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior." And many don't believe what she did on Friday was any of those things either...and yes, there are those that do think that one act, as big or small as it might be, is erractic. But even those people wouldn't call it a pattern, which is what Mike is implying.
So Mike comes off sounding Moby.
Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 03:51 PM (VuLos)
598
Okay, Ace, I haven't addressed you're position specifically, yet, and quite frankly you don't really care what I'd have to say, but...
Do I wish Palin would run for President? I don't know yet.
Do I think she'd be better than the current holder of that title? Uh, yeah.
Do I think she's going to run? Eh, who knows.
Is she better than anyone else on our team, in the open? Hell yeah.
Do I trust her? More than any other politician in quite some time.
Do I think this is a bad move? Nope. I think it's honorable.
Is it disappointing? No.
Do I think your reaction is out of line? No, but it's boarding on being as irrational as some of the cultists, and think this is where you're treading into some embarrassing territory and hope you take a breath.
I don't know what she's doing. If she runs for 2012 I'm backing her. If she starts a grassroots movement I'm backing her. If she bows out from public life, I tip my hat and support her decision (but I don't think this is the case).
Many represent just themselves by pretending to represent many. She represents many by representing herself least of all. It's a quality many will go to the mat for and will even lay their lives on the line for.
So just don't be surprised by the reaction of some.
Do I wish Palin would run for President? I don't know yet.
Do I think she'd be better than the current holder of that title? Uh, yeah.
Do I think she's going to run? Eh, who knows.
Is she better than anyone else on our team, in the open? Hell yeah.
Do I trust her? More than any other politician in quite some time.
Do I think this is a bad move? Nope. I think it's honorable.
Is it disappointing? No.
Do I think your reaction is out of line? No, but it's boarding on being as irrational as some of the cultists, and think this is where you're treading into some embarrassing territory and hope you take a breath.
I don't know what she's doing. If she runs for 2012 I'm backing her. If she starts a grassroots movement I'm backing her. If she bows out from public life, I tip my hat and support her decision (but I don't think this is the case).
Many represent just themselves by pretending to represent many. She represents many by representing herself least of all. It's a quality many will go to the mat for and will even lay their lives on the line for.
So just don't be surprised by the reaction of some.
Posted by: Editor at July 05, 2009 03:51 PM (en7mZ)
599
Kensington,
"in love" was not meant as a slur though I understand why you take it that way. I was building on TendStl's analogy.
Which is a good analogy, although not completely for the reasons he thinks.
Let's put differently: A candidate's strongest, most passionate and most dedicated supporters are NOT representative of the general public -- which, yes, you will have to face and cotton to, even if you think they're idiots.
The fact that you and others are willing to overlook this decision doesn't say a damn thing about whether other people are able to overlook it.
It's completely predictable that you don't think her resignation is a disqualifying thing. Not to piss you off, but it was predictable that Obama's supporters were somehow able to overlook his Wright scandal.
That says very little about whether you can get an additional necessary 10-20% of the public to agree with you.
"in love" was not meant as a slur though I understand why you take it that way. I was building on TendStl's analogy.
Which is a good analogy, although not completely for the reasons he thinks.
Let's put differently: A candidate's strongest, most passionate and most dedicated supporters are NOT representative of the general public -- which, yes, you will have to face and cotton to, even if you think they're idiots.
The fact that you and others are willing to overlook this decision doesn't say a damn thing about whether other people are able to overlook it.
It's completely predictable that you don't think her resignation is a disqualifying thing. Not to piss you off, but it was predictable that Obama's supporters were somehow able to overlook his Wright scandal.
That says very little about whether you can get an additional necessary 10-20% of the public to agree with you.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 03:54 PM (JQ+0C)
600
44% will not cut it. I have suggested she bone up on policy or the like
to grow that number above 50%, to get back near that wonderful 60%
approval she had when she first debuted and hadn't been savaged by the
press and come off shaky in interviews, but people get pissed at me for
saying so, as if I'm making these numbers up or i I'm to blame for the
fact that mathematics rules certain outcomes as very unlikely.
Ace
I have always agreed with this. She needs to read about 50 books, go international, have some informal chats with people like Kissinger and bone up. She needs to be able to answer questions on many topics. How tax cuts are good for a slugging economy not just that they are "good". What the implications are for the pacific rim if Japan is forced to go nuclear because of Kim Jung and what she would do to prevent this from happening etc.
to grow that number above 50%, to get back near that wonderful 60%
approval she had when she first debuted and hadn't been savaged by the
press and come off shaky in interviews, but people get pissed at me for
saying so, as if I'm making these numbers up or i I'm to blame for the
fact that mathematics rules certain outcomes as very unlikely.
Ace
I have always agreed with this. She needs to read about 50 books, go international, have some informal chats with people like Kissinger and bone up. She needs to be able to answer questions on many topics. How tax cuts are good for a slugging economy not just that they are "good". What the implications are for the pacific rim if Japan is forced to go nuclear because of Kim Jung and what she would do to prevent this from happening etc.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 03:54 PM (yAqqi)
601
>>>Please consider that you are viewing her decision through the lingering disappointment over Mark Sanford's implosion. I think you'll find that you're the one being emotional. That was my problem Friday.
Hah, not in the least. I wasn't disappointed by Sanford. I thought he was a good voice on fiscal responsibility but had no particular attraction to him as a candidate.
Hah, not in the least. I wasn't disappointed by Sanford. I thought he was a good voice on fiscal responsibility but had no particular attraction to him as a candidate.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 03:56 PM (JQ+0C)
602
I recall reading that the job of Governor of Alaska pays about $125,000/year. I also recall reading that Gov. Palins current legal bills from answering the complaintants, is over $500,000.
It looks like economics might have been the driving factor in resigning; she and her family simply couldnt afford the economic drain.
Did she have any recourse while Governor? It looks like she does as Private Citizen S. Palin.
I recall reading that the job of Governor of Alaska pays about $125,000/year. I also recall reading that Gov. Palins current legal bills from answering the complaintants, is over $500,000.
It looks like economics might have been the driving factor in resigning; she and her family simply couldnt afford the economic drain.
Did she have any recourse while Governor? It looks like she does as Private Citizen S. Palin.
Posted by: Arbalest at July 05, 2009 03:57 PM (2ymvt)
603
And yeah, given the fact she was already under 50% support, I don't
really understand how she had this excess support she could afford to
alienate by resigning.
...and that finally gets to my point. Who exactly does she lose this weekend that will never ever come back to her? And why do you think the death by a thousand lawsuits would have been a better decision?
44% is plenty if only 80% show up at the polls, as 44>36. Further you are assuming Obama's job performance is completely irrelevant, which I think is flawed, to say the least. Given that everyone here understands the level of ruin he is imposing on our country.
44% is also plenty if she does something really radical/helpful like start her own party. Or in a primary with no names like Pawlenty and, who else do you think is better, again?
really understand how she had this excess support she could afford to
alienate by resigning.
...and that finally gets to my point. Who exactly does she lose this weekend that will never ever come back to her? And why do you think the death by a thousand lawsuits would have been a better decision?
44% is plenty if only 80% show up at the polls, as 44>36. Further you are assuming Obama's job performance is completely irrelevant, which I think is flawed, to say the least. Given that everyone here understands the level of ruin he is imposing on our country.
44% is also plenty if she does something really radical/helpful like start her own party. Or in a primary with no names like Pawlenty and, who else do you think is better, again?
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 04:00 PM (LxYp2)
604
It's completely predictable that you don't think her resignation is a disqualifying thing.Ace
You say that as if its fact. It isn't, even though if it comes out that way, there is still no way of knowing. If those of us who think that her resignation isn't disqualifying I will stand in the camp with Limbaugh, Coulter, Levin, Mary Matalin and many more proudly.
You say that as if its fact. It isn't, even though if it comes out that way, there is still no way of knowing. If those of us who think that her resignation isn't disqualifying I will stand in the camp with Limbaugh, Coulter, Levin, Mary Matalin and many more proudly.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 04:02 PM (yAqqi)
605
Incidentally, I often said "I love Palin" so it's not like I have some negative association with the phrase.
I'm not in love with her anymore, true, and for that reason, people may think that my analysis is deliberately vindictive. They think my analysis proceeds directly from my reduction in support.
They do not consider the fact that maybe I've reduced my support based on my analysis.
I will always like Sarah Palin. However, to be super IN LOVE, I don't just want a dynamic figure and a fearless fighter and wonderful woman and a strong conservative. I want all those things plus a likely winner.
I stopped believing she was a likely winner. I believe the opposite. I already grew to believe that before she resigned. I wanted her to change to become a likely winner.
I'm not in love with her anymore, true, and for that reason, people may think that my analysis is deliberately vindictive. They think my analysis proceeds directly from my reduction in support.
They do not consider the fact that maybe I've reduced my support based on my analysis.
I will always like Sarah Palin. However, to be super IN LOVE, I don't just want a dynamic figure and a fearless fighter and wonderful woman and a strong conservative. I want all those things plus a likely winner.
I stopped believing she was a likely winner. I believe the opposite. I already grew to believe that before she resigned. I wanted her to change to become a likely winner.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:03 PM (JQ+0C)
606
Ace@616:"It's completely predictable that you don't think her resignation is a
disqualifying thing. Not to piss you off, but it was predictable that
Obama's supporters were somehow able to overlook his Wright scandal"
No offense taken. It's also completely predictable that you would equate Palin resigning in order to free herself from the confines of her situation in Alaska (whether that turns out to be a disaster or not, ultimately, I'm just taking her at face value) with Obama belonging to a racist church.
Now you may counter that they're both awful because the conventional wisdom would call both "scandals" deal killers.
Of course, Obama won. I'm just willing to give Palin more time than you are to see if she can make anything of this.
disqualifying thing. Not to piss you off, but it was predictable that
Obama's supporters were somehow able to overlook his Wright scandal"
No offense taken. It's also completely predictable that you would equate Palin resigning in order to free herself from the confines of her situation in Alaska (whether that turns out to be a disaster or not, ultimately, I'm just taking her at face value) with Obama belonging to a racist church.
Now you may counter that they're both awful because the conventional wisdom would call both "scandals" deal killers.
Of course, Obama won. I'm just willing to give Palin more time than you are to see if she can make anything of this.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:06 PM (ZqTlA)
607
>>>You say that as if its fact.
No, what I'm saying is a fact is that it's predictable that YOU don't think it's disqualifying. I am not saying it definitely IS disqualifying -- just that I really didn't have to ask Palin's champions if fit was disqualifying to know their answer.
I believe for a lot of people it is disqualifying, including some of Palin's supporters, and including some people who could have been persuaded to support her (and would be needed to get to 50%).
And since she was only at 44% approval, I don't see how she had any excess support she could afford to lose.
Look: Let's say I'm suporting Guiliani. Let's say it comes out that he's had, I don't know, gay sex with a monkey.
You know what? Maybe I can get past the gay sex with a monkey -- who's the victim?
But that doesn't change the fact that he was already a candidate with major problems and is hardly helped by GayMonkeySexGate.
No, what I'm saying is a fact is that it's predictable that YOU don't think it's disqualifying. I am not saying it definitely IS disqualifying -- just that I really didn't have to ask Palin's champions if fit was disqualifying to know their answer.
I believe for a lot of people it is disqualifying, including some of Palin's supporters, and including some people who could have been persuaded to support her (and would be needed to get to 50%).
And since she was only at 44% approval, I don't see how she had any excess support she could afford to lose.
Look: Let's say I'm suporting Guiliani. Let's say it comes out that he's had, I don't know, gay sex with a monkey.
You know what? Maybe I can get past the gay sex with a monkey -- who's the victim?
But that doesn't change the fact that he was already a candidate with major problems and is hardly helped by GayMonkeySexGate.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:09 PM (JQ+0C)
608
Ace, you haven't "reduced your support," you've nailed her into a coffin and buried her underground.
I wish you'd only reduced your support. Rush Limbaugh reduced his support when he said "hey, let's wait and see now."
That's your right, of course, but I think you're being a bit euphemistic.
I wish you'd only reduced your support. Rush Limbaugh reduced his support when he said "hey, let's wait and see now."
That's your right, of course, but I think you're being a bit euphemistic.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:09 PM (ZqTlA)
609
Actually, even that's not quite accurate. A buried corpse can always been unearthed.
You cremated her when she went to bed early with a headache.
You cremated her when she went to bed early with a headache.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:12 PM (ZqTlA)
610
>>>It's also completely predictable that you would equate Palin resigning in order to free herself from the confines of her situation in Alaska (whether that turns out to be a disaster or not, ultimately, I'm just taking her at face value) with Obama belonging to a racist church.
I'm not equating them. Politically, Palin's resignatin is more harmful.
As it turns out, we know how the public viewd Obama's wright problem -- no big deal. We do not know that about Palin's resignation. I suspect she won't be as fortunate.
Now, in terms of "equating" them as breaches of ethics of morality, of course Wright was a real violation, and Palin isn't "violating" any rule. She's perfectly within her rights to resign. No harm, no foul.
But that doesn't mean that people won't view her negatively for it, whether you think it's unfair or not.
Hey, man, look: At the end of the day, based on Palin's resignatiton, we're debating whether she has a political future at all.
So, you tell me this is somehow a good or even neutral move, when the debate is whether or not she's finished or not.
I'm not equating them. Politically, Palin's resignatin is more harmful.
As it turns out, we know how the public viewd Obama's wright problem -- no big deal. We do not know that about Palin's resignation. I suspect she won't be as fortunate.
Now, in terms of "equating" them as breaches of ethics of morality, of course Wright was a real violation, and Palin isn't "violating" any rule. She's perfectly within her rights to resign. No harm, no foul.
But that doesn't mean that people won't view her negatively for it, whether you think it's unfair or not.
Hey, man, look: At the end of the day, based on Palin's resignatiton, we're debating whether she has a political future at all.
So, you tell me this is somehow a good or even neutral move, when the debate is whether or not she's finished or not.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:12 PM (JQ+0C)
611
ace, I didn't have any particular attachment to Sanford either. He was just that 'other guy' that came up in a list of GOP hopefuls I hadn't heard of. What I mean was he's brought about bad atmosphere for the cause, and we had the cap and trade passage masked by the pedophile of pop's passing. Which is to say, I think we all have been feeling like the world's coming apart, so my first assumption Friday was the same as yours, that she was throwing in the towel. That no longer seems to be the case.
I still don't think you've explained what other decision she could have made that would have been better in the grand scheme of things. How much debt was she supposed to rack up defending frivolous ethics charges just to fill out the term? What was she supposed to do in the next year and a half as governor to justify wasting the time, given she feels she's accomplished all that she ran on? When was she going to find the time to do all the 'boning up' you think is necessary?
I still don't think you've explained what other decision she could have made that would have been better in the grand scheme of things. How much debt was she supposed to rack up defending frivolous ethics charges just to fill out the term? What was she supposed to do in the next year and a half as governor to justify wasting the time, given she feels she's accomplished all that she ran on? When was she going to find the time to do all the 'boning up' you think is necessary?
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 04:15 PM (LxYp2)
612
"And since she was only at 44% approval, I don't see how she had any excess support she could afford to lose."
I'm just curious to see if she can raise that number any without having to deal with people filing BS ethics complaints against her day in and day out and using their existence to howl about all her "scandals."
I see no reason not to "wait and see" for awhile.
I'm just curious to see if she can raise that number any without having to deal with people filing BS ethics complaints against her day in and day out and using their existence to howl about all her "scandals."
I see no reason not to "wait and see" for awhile.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:15 PM (ZqTlA)
613
Kensington,
True, I would not support her now except in the one situation which I find preposterous, that is, polls tell me at some point she's now above 55% support.
If that turns out to be the case, despite the fact I now have bigger concerns about her than I did before, I would support her. Because I like her, and I can look past my concerns at her positives IF it looks like she can win.
But I do not believe she can win an election now. I don't believe she'll see approval above 40% again. So I don't really see what the point of supporting her might be, except to prove that the Republican Party really likes to lose elections.
True, I would not support her now except in the one situation which I find preposterous, that is, polls tell me at some point she's now above 55% support.
If that turns out to be the case, despite the fact I now have bigger concerns about her than I did before, I would support her. Because I like her, and I can look past my concerns at her positives IF it looks like she can win.
But I do not believe she can win an election now. I don't believe she'll see approval above 40% again. So I don't really see what the point of supporting her might be, except to prove that the Republican Party really likes to lose elections.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:16 PM (JQ+0C)
614
How about I put it like this?
I was a Palin supporter -- with reservations.
The resignation ends that for me. I don't support her anymore, not as a candidate. As a speaker or PAC leader, sure. Not as a candidate.
I do not believe I am a singular creature.
Therefore I believe others feel this way too.
Therefore I believe her already sub-majority support is going to become even more limited (or more "selective," as Spinal Tap's manager might say).
So... again, if this was her way of becoming president... well, I'm afraid I'm not smart enough to get the reasoning.
I was a Palin supporter -- with reservations.
The resignation ends that for me. I don't support her anymore, not as a candidate. As a speaker or PAC leader, sure. Not as a candidate.
I do not believe I am a singular creature.
Therefore I believe others feel this way too.
Therefore I believe her already sub-majority support is going to become even more limited (or more "selective," as Spinal Tap's manager might say).
So... again, if this was her way of becoming president... well, I'm afraid I'm not smart enough to get the reasoning.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:18 PM (JQ+0C)
615
Methos: "44% is also plenty if she does something really radical/helpful like
start her own party. Or in a primary with no names like Pawlenty and,
who else do you think is better, again?"
This is where I'm placing my bets. 40% of the nation (it was polled recently if you believe in such things) self-identifies itself as "conservative." About half that are "liberal." Now, that's a huge advantage even if some of those conservatives peel off. Peel off to what exactly, I don't know and I don't see it happening, but I'll acknowledge the possibility that some do. By the same token, some of those liberals would peel off too, so call that a wash.
Given that, and given the disgust voters have with Congress especially and Obama moreso as his administration drives down the psyche and strength of the nation, we have an electorate primed for something new. Of course, that's conditional on some leadership to grab attention and to educate the masses.
This is where I see great opportunity. The likes of Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Levin, Malkin, Ace, Allahpundit (I keed, I keed), et al. could create a dynamic network of anti-government status quo. Can they educate the muddled middle who will swing mid-terms and beyond? I think so only because our government is failing and everyone is starting to see it. The downcycle focuses the constituency's collective minds.
But what is the pebble that finally breaks the scale? Palin on tour and working the base. Inspire those who will fight and the muddled middle, properly educated and agitated) will follow. This is where I think Palin could become Kingmaker and have the most immediate impact. I'm not sure third party is the way to go and it's not something I'm 100% for or against, but seeking and supporting individuals rather than R's or D's can have a profound impact on the political system. This is how the two-party boulder gets split and real change can occur.
start her own party. Or in a primary with no names like Pawlenty and,
who else do you think is better, again?"
This is where I'm placing my bets. 40% of the nation (it was polled recently if you believe in such things) self-identifies itself as "conservative." About half that are "liberal." Now, that's a huge advantage even if some of those conservatives peel off. Peel off to what exactly, I don't know and I don't see it happening, but I'll acknowledge the possibility that some do. By the same token, some of those liberals would peel off too, so call that a wash.
Given that, and given the disgust voters have with Congress especially and Obama moreso as his administration drives down the psyche and strength of the nation, we have an electorate primed for something new. Of course, that's conditional on some leadership to grab attention and to educate the masses.
This is where I see great opportunity. The likes of Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Levin, Malkin, Ace, Allahpundit (I keed, I keed), et al. could create a dynamic network of anti-government status quo. Can they educate the muddled middle who will swing mid-terms and beyond? I think so only because our government is failing and everyone is starting to see it. The downcycle focuses the constituency's collective minds.
But what is the pebble that finally breaks the scale? Palin on tour and working the base. Inspire those who will fight and the muddled middle, properly educated and agitated) will follow. This is where I think Palin could become Kingmaker and have the most immediate impact. I'm not sure third party is the way to go and it's not something I'm 100% for or against, but seeking and supporting individuals rather than R's or D's can have a profound impact on the political system. This is how the two-party boulder gets split and real change can occur.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 04:19 PM (rZ235)
616
except to prove that the Republican Party really likes to lose elections.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:16 PM (JQ+0C)
Gawddangit, Ace. They've already proved that. A new strategy, conservativism, is required.
jeebus, just stop, already. You've come to your conclusion and we know what it is.
The question is, if she runs will you support her or will you continue and hope to be part of a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:16 PM (JQ+0C)
Gawddangit, Ace. They've already proved that. A new strategy, conservativism, is required.
jeebus, just stop, already. You've come to your conclusion and we know what it is.
The question is, if she runs will you support her or will you continue and hope to be part of a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Posted by: Editor at July 05, 2009 04:20 PM (en7mZ)
617
"As it turns out, we know how the public viewd Obama's wright problem --
no big deal. We do not know that about Palin's resignation. I suspect
she won't be as fortunate."
And rather than take a breath to wait and see, you cremated her on Friday.
"So, you tell me this is somehow a good or even neutral move, when the debate is whether or not she's finished or not."
I don't know. I'm agnostic on the matter. Certainly I wasn't happy to hear it at the moment, but I kind of like what Krauthammer, Limbaugh, Coulter and Matalin have had to say in its wake.
I just don't think it's necessarily significant that people are debating whether she's finished or not. A lot of people have been debating that since McCain introduced her last year. I know you weren't, but it's not like the overall debate has been merely between which level of fabulous success will she reach next before Friday.
no big deal. We do not know that about Palin's resignation. I suspect
she won't be as fortunate."
And rather than take a breath to wait and see, you cremated her on Friday.
"So, you tell me this is somehow a good or even neutral move, when the debate is whether or not she's finished or not."
I don't know. I'm agnostic on the matter. Certainly I wasn't happy to hear it at the moment, but I kind of like what Krauthammer, Limbaugh, Coulter and Matalin have had to say in its wake.
I just don't think it's necessarily significant that people are debating whether she's finished or not. A lot of people have been debating that since McCain introduced her last year. I know you weren't, but it's not like the overall debate has been merely between which level of fabulous success will she reach next before Friday.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:21 PM (ZqTlA)
618
615
Come on Tinkerbella you can't be that credulous.
Posted by: monkeyfan at July 05, 2009 03:53 PM (cEE8N)
I don't believe I am being naive. My statements are based on being a long time reader of these guys. I have been reading Ace since he first started and he mainly talked about DD, Paul Anka and droopy balls, AP since he had his own personal blog, and Ed back when he had Captain's QTR... and their views have been pretty consistent over the last 6ish years I have been reading them. Maybe this is why we see something different in what they are saying.No Tinkerbella, what I'm questioning is the Mike's declaration that
Palin has had a continually erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior.
By that statement he is ingsuggest a long term pattern of her behavior.Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 03:51 PM (VuLos)
I have to agree to an extent here with Mike. She has done little things that don't exactly scream, "Presidential". Her and her family fighting with Bristol's baby-daddy's family in public?
while she has received extremely biased treatment from the press, she has to stop complaining about it. doesn't everyone around here make fun of Obama when he whines about Fox news?
Accepting an invitation to speak at a rep fundraiser, then declining, then saying she didn't know about it shows some disorganization on her part....And saying that she would become a "lame duck' governor??? WTF?Then Friday she is quitting as Governor and didn't really elaborate on the reason why. If she had elaborated on the reason, you would have 600+ comments in the one thread speculating as to what she is doing and why.
I understand why she has been defensive about her kids and believe she has every right to defend them...I'm just saying some of the little things she has done since the election doesn't make her appear presidential.tink
Come on Tinkerbella you can't be that credulous.
Posted by: monkeyfan at July 05, 2009 03:53 PM (cEE8N)
I don't believe I am being naive. My statements are based on being a long time reader of these guys. I have been reading Ace since he first started and he mainly talked about DD, Paul Anka and droopy balls, AP since he had his own personal blog, and Ed back when he had Captain's QTR... and their views have been pretty consistent over the last 6ish years I have been reading them. Maybe this is why we see something different in what they are saying.No Tinkerbella, what I'm questioning is the Mike's declaration that
Palin has had a continually erratic, cavalier and eccentric behavior.
By that statement he is ingsuggest a long term pattern of her behavior.Posted by: Tami at July 05, 2009 03:51 PM (VuLos)
I have to agree to an extent here with Mike. She has done little things that don't exactly scream, "Presidential". Her and her family fighting with Bristol's baby-daddy's family in public?
while she has received extremely biased treatment from the press, she has to stop complaining about it. doesn't everyone around here make fun of Obama when he whines about Fox news?
Accepting an invitation to speak at a rep fundraiser, then declining, then saying she didn't know about it shows some disorganization on her part....And saying that she would become a "lame duck' governor??? WTF?Then Friday she is quitting as Governor and didn't really elaborate on the reason why. If she had elaborated on the reason, you would have 600+ comments in the one thread speculating as to what she is doing and why.
I understand why she has been defensive about her kids and believe she has every right to defend them...I'm just saying some of the little things she has done since the election doesn't make her appear presidential.tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 04:22 PM (pLs/O)
Posted by: Editor at July 05, 2009 04:22 PM (en7mZ)
620
Yes, ace, electability is the most important consideration when picking a Presidential nominee.
Posted by: John Kerry at July 05, 2009 04:22 PM (LxYp2)
621
If she ran, which I doubt she will, I think I would be silent or strictly factual about her in the primaries. I would not neg her, because I know my readers wouldnt' want that.
But I would also think they were slitting their throats and would not want to encourage that.
If she won the nomination, I'd support her, just like I supported McCain's doomed candidacy or the doomed GOP congress of 2006.
Then after the election I would let everyone recover, begin to come to terms with another loss, and only that after that offer an I told you so, as in "I told you so, you can want it as badly as you want, but no amount of wanting can make 44% a greater percentage than 50%."
But I would also think they were slitting their throats and would not want to encourage that.
If she won the nomination, I'd support her, just like I supported McCain's doomed candidacy or the doomed GOP congress of 2006.
Then after the election I would let everyone recover, begin to come to terms with another loss, and only that after that offer an I told you so, as in "I told you so, you can want it as badly as you want, but no amount of wanting can make 44% a greater percentage than 50%."
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:24 PM (JQ+0C)
622
Incidentally, I often said "I love Palin" so it's not like I have some negative association with the phrase.
I'm not in love with her anymore, true,
Face it people....Ace and Sarah have broken up. They most likely will not be getting back together. Once he heard Jenny Sanford might be on the market...he dumped the Palin.
tink
I'm not in love with her anymore, true,
Face it people....Ace and Sarah have broken up. They most likely will not be getting back together. Once he heard Jenny Sanford might be on the market...he dumped the Palin.
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 04:24 PM (pLs/O)
623
I'm not advocating party-suicide-by-Palin if her numbers stay low. I just think it's okay to wait for awhile and see what she does next before writing her off when we're still 3.5 years before the next election, 2.5 before the primaries.
But I'm starting to repeat myself now.
But I'm starting to repeat myself now.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:25 PM (ZqTlA)
624
>>>Who, theN/
Someone who can win.
If no one can win, I would chose among the protest candidates like Palin, and would give her strong consideration, because, even if she can't win, she makes a hell of a candidate for a doomed cause.
But only if we were at that level, choosing between protest candidates.
Someone who can win.
If no one can win, I would chose among the protest candidates like Palin, and would give her strong consideration, because, even if she can't win, she makes a hell of a candidate for a doomed cause.
But only if we were at that level, choosing between protest candidates.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:25 PM (JQ+0C)
625
We can support Palin and lose like you say or we can support Romney, who you clearly support even though you will deny it, and lose. So, why the fuck do we need you telling us who not to support? Your opinion is your opinion. If you think you can ram it down everyone else's throats beyond your blog, you're crazy. The fact that people like you can do nothing but support the same old losing RINO candidates makes the GOP a loser. Thanks for nothing! You're really not all that influential.
Posted by: nomo at July 05, 2009 04:26 PM (oPemE)
Posted by: eman at July 05, 2009 04:26 PM (fpywm)
627
Oh, so you are going to bash the hell out of her and at the last minute pretend to support her??? Ridiculous. Again, you over estimate your influence.
Posted by: nomo at July 05, 2009 04:29 PM (oPemE)
628
Kensington, if the far-fetched happens and somehow she really does reverse all this and get to a high level of support (55%+), then sure, i will have been proven wrong and despite my concerns about her, um, unpredictability (and yes, predictability is good in a CINC), I would support her.
If these really unlikely things happen -- sure. I would support her. It's not so much that I have personally written her off, it's more that I think she is not doing thte things needed to make 50% of the public vote for her. If I am wrong on that point, a big part of my reservatitons are addressed, and I can get behind her.
However, yadda yadda yadda. etc. I don't think this is likely at all.
If these really unlikely things happen -- sure. I would support her. It's not so much that I have personally written her off, it's more that I think she is not doing thte things needed to make 50% of the public vote for her. If I am wrong on that point, a big part of my reservatitons are addressed, and I can get behind her.
However, yadda yadda yadda. etc. I don't think this is likely at all.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:30 PM (JQ+0C)
629
Reversing the question:
How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin looking for the next-best candidate?
How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin looking for the next-best candidate?
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:31 PM (JQ+0C)
630
Ace, regardless, I really do appreciate the chance to air through this stuff here without being banned, censored, moderated, or whatever.
I don't think I've been any more vitriolic at Hot Air, but now I'm stuck in some sort of moderation Hell over there that makes discussions in any sort of timely fashion impossible.
I don't think I've been any more vitriolic at Hot Air, but now I'm stuck in some sort of moderation Hell over there that makes discussions in any sort of timely fashion impossible.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:31 PM (ZqTlA)
631
645
Oh, so you are going to bash the hell out of her and at the last minute
pretend to support her??? Ridiculous. Again, you over estimate your
influence.
Posted by: nomo at July 05, 2009 04:29 PM (oPemE)
ummmm...then why are you here? arguing with Ace? making statements full of irony..like So, why the fuck do we need you telling us who not to support? Your opinion is your opinion. when you are arguing for Ace to support her?I thought this was going to be a boring Sunday. Thanks for the fun, guys.tink
Oh, so you are going to bash the hell out of her and at the last minute
pretend to support her??? Ridiculous. Again, you over estimate your
influence.
Posted by: nomo at July 05, 2009 04:29 PM (oPemE)
ummmm...then why are you here? arguing with Ace? making statements full of irony..like So, why the fuck do we need you telling us who not to support? Your opinion is your opinion. when you are arguing for Ace to support her?I thought this was going to be a boring Sunday. Thanks for the fun, guys.tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 04:34 PM (pLs/O)
632
>>>We can support Palin and lose like you say or we can support Romney, who you clearly support even though you will deny it, and lose.
As of now, sure, I support him, the same way I supported him in 2008 -- when all the candidates I liked better failed, I went to Romney as an acceptable, if not great, candidate.
I don't have much of an attachment to Romney. My support for him is always of the "I guess" variety, as in "I guess I support Romney."
I'd prefer a stronger candidate, of course, and hope to find one. But if you're talking about people we now know are running for President, I guess he's the best bet of the lot.
If you feel that no one can win in 2012, fine, support your favorite. I think Obama will be vulnerable in 2012, so I don't want to throw the campaign away on a protest candidate.
As of now, sure, I support him, the same way I supported him in 2008 -- when all the candidates I liked better failed, I went to Romney as an acceptable, if not great, candidate.
I don't have much of an attachment to Romney. My support for him is always of the "I guess" variety, as in "I guess I support Romney."
I'd prefer a stronger candidate, of course, and hope to find one. But if you're talking about people we now know are running for President, I guess he's the best bet of the lot.
If you feel that no one can win in 2012, fine, support your favorite. I think Obama will be vulnerable in 2012, so I don't want to throw the campaign away on a protest candidate.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:35 PM (JQ+0C)
633
648
Ace, regardless, I really do appreciate the chance to air through this
stuff here without being banned, censored, moderated, or whatever.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:31 PM (ZqTlA)
BAN KENSINGTION. BAN HIM NOOOOOOOOOOOOW
Ace, regardless, I really do appreciate the chance to air through this
stuff here without being banned, censored, moderated, or whatever.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:31 PM (ZqTlA)
BAN KENSINGTION. BAN HIM NOOOOOOOOOOOOW
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 04:36 PM (pLs/O)
634
ace at July 05, 2009 04:31 PM: "How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?"
33.33332%
Give or take.
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?"
33.33332%
Give or take.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 04:37 PM (rZ235)
635
"How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?"
I never stopped looking! She's been my preference, but I've always thought '12 was going to be a longshot because the deck is simply too stacked in Obama's favor.
The thing is, I don't really have to look. They will present themselves during the primaries, and I'll decide on somebody else if Palin has reduced herself down to Ron Paul or Duncan Hunter numbers.
On the other hand, if it's really obviously a lost cause, as it wasy, say in '96 and, arguably, '08, then I might go for broke on Palin if she hasn't done anything anymore clownish than everyone else, (like come out for Amnesty or embraced global warming)
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?"
I never stopped looking! She's been my preference, but I've always thought '12 was going to be a longshot because the deck is simply too stacked in Obama's favor.
The thing is, I don't really have to look. They will present themselves during the primaries, and I'll decide on somebody else if Palin has reduced herself down to Ron Paul or Duncan Hunter numbers.
On the other hand, if it's really obviously a lost cause, as it wasy, say in '96 and, arguably, '08, then I might go for broke on Palin if she hasn't done anything anymore clownish than everyone else, (like come out for Amnesty or embraced global warming)
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:38 PM (ZqTlA)
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 04:38 PM (pLs/O)
637
AD,
Well... we'll watch the numbers, eh?
I think it will fall to around 38%. Which isn't your number, but I hope you recognize it as a bad one.
Well... we'll watch the numbers, eh?
I think it will fall to around 38%. Which isn't your number, but I hope you recognize it as a bad one.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:40 PM (JQ+0C)
638
Ace,
So let me get this straight. You would rather be a "reactive" force in the political forum....that is one only backing the candidate(s) you see as having the best poll numbers....rather than say being a "pro-active" one...using the bully-pulpit of a tremendously popular blog to help shape and define conservative opinion. I realize that the two are not mutually exclusive.
So let me get this straight. You would rather be a "reactive" force in the political forum....that is one only backing the candidate(s) you see as having the best poll numbers....rather than say being a "pro-active" one...using the bully-pulpit of a tremendously popular blog to help shape and define conservative opinion. I realize that the two are not mutually exclusive.
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 04:40 PM (d3dk0)
639
How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?
10 points behind another candidate that I can live with. Getting national Romney care instead of Obamacare doesn't really address my concerns, so it would have to be someone else.
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?
10 points behind another candidate that I can live with. Getting national Romney care instead of Obamacare doesn't really address my concerns, so it would have to be someone else.
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 04:41 PM (LxYp2)
640
...if she hasn't done anything anymore clownish than everyone else, (like come out for Amnesty or embraced global warming)
What? Did someone say amnesty and global warming?
What? Did someone say amnesty and global warming?
Posted by: McCain & Gingrich, Foreward-Thinking GOP Czars at July 05, 2009 04:41 PM (rZ235)
641
@647: Reversing the question:
How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin looking for the next-best candidate?
RON PAUL!
(sorry; couldn't resist)
How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin looking for the next-best candidate?
RON PAUL!
(sorry; couldn't resist)
Posted by: Anachronda at July 05, 2009 04:42 PM (f5hkO)
642
"BAN KENSINGTION. BAN HIM NOOOOOOOOOOOOW"
Well, I don't know what's going on over at Hot Air. I used to be able to comment there, but now I can't. Some comments show up as being held for moderation, but most are unacknowledged, unmoderated and ultimately unposted.
And it seems to me that the problem started with a post I wrote that was (reasonably) critical of Allah. I didn't call him a RINO or a traitor, but I did take issue with something he wrote.
Ed said I wasn't banned, but he hasn't helped fix the matter, and Allah didn't respond to my request for assistance. I suppose it's possible he didn't see, but it's not like I tweeted with an invisible font, and he's on Twitter 24/7.
Well, I don't know what's going on over at Hot Air. I used to be able to comment there, but now I can't. Some comments show up as being held for moderation, but most are unacknowledged, unmoderated and ultimately unposted.
And it seems to me that the problem started with a post I wrote that was (reasonably) critical of Allah. I didn't call him a RINO or a traitor, but I did take issue with something he wrote.
Ed said I wasn't banned, but he hasn't helped fix the matter, and Allah didn't respond to my request for assistance. I suppose it's possible he didn't see, but it's not like I tweeted with an invisible font, and he's on Twitter 24/7.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 04:43 PM (ZqTlA)
643
Reversing the question:
How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:31 PM (JQ+0C)
As for me, as long as we elect a true conservative in the Primary I am good with that. The primaries make those decisions for us, but I will not vote for another Moderate ever again. And no, Im not talking about a bible thumping preacher/ess.
But I will not entertain voting for another candidate the NY Times endorses.
How low would Sarah Palin's approval rating have to drop before you
would concede she's no longer viable and you should probably begin
looking for the next-best candidate?
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 04:31 PM (JQ+0C)
As for me, as long as we elect a true conservative in the Primary I am good with that. The primaries make those decisions for us, but I will not vote for another Moderate ever again. And no, Im not talking about a bible thumping preacher/ess.
But I will not entertain voting for another candidate the NY Times endorses.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 04:44 PM (yAqqi)
644
ace at July 05, 2009 04:40 PM: "I think it will fall to around 38%. Which isn't your number, but I hope you recognize it as a bad one."
Eh. Congress rates significantly lower and it still goes on and impacts our lives profoundly. (That wasn't an entirely apples-oranges statement.) Small numbers in the right place move elections.
Still, I was alluding to the potential for a third-party race and not throwing some snarky number out (if that was how you interpreted it.)
Eh. Congress rates significantly lower and it still goes on and impacts our lives profoundly. (That wasn't an entirely apples-oranges statement.) Small numbers in the right place move elections.
Still, I was alluding to the potential for a third-party race and not throwing some snarky number out (if that was how you interpreted it.)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 04:47 PM (rZ235)
645
Really, I'm not convinced Sarah's position is best served as a Presidential candidate, anyway. She's too powerful. The title of President limits one just like the title of Governor did.
Leader of a viable, legitimate conservative movement may best suit her. Whether that's a "take back the party" type movement or a "this is the candidate we support" type movement" I don't know. But she can do it. She did it in Alaska where it can be said the good-ol'-boys network may have had the strongest defense in the entire nation. She just happened to chose the Governorship to accomplish it and prove it could be done.
Leader of a viable, legitimate conservative movement may best suit her. Whether that's a "take back the party" type movement or a "this is the candidate we support" type movement" I don't know. But she can do it. She did it in Alaska where it can be said the good-ol'-boys network may have had the strongest defense in the entire nation. She just happened to chose the Governorship to accomplish it and prove it could be done.
Posted by: Editor at July 05, 2009 04:54 PM (en7mZ)
646
here's what I think will happen...I am confident the repubs will get their crap together by 2012, but obama's numbers will sink along with the economy.
remember: we are set to have at least 10% unemployment by the end of the year and Bush tax breaks end in 2010, along with the new taxes we are going to get with cap and trade and healthcare. not to mention the inflation that is headed our way once all that money they are printing worms its way through the economy.
Obama won't be looking good. Hillary will quit as Sec of State and make another run against him (her platform will be "see I told ya so, now vote for me, dumbasses"). If she wants to be president, she has to run in 2012 or it is over for her. she will be too old in 2016 to run for first term. Hopey and Changey speeches will not cut it with high unemployment and double digit inflation.
tink
remember: we are set to have at least 10% unemployment by the end of the year and Bush tax breaks end in 2010, along with the new taxes we are going to get with cap and trade and healthcare. not to mention the inflation that is headed our way once all that money they are printing worms its way through the economy.
Obama won't be looking good. Hillary will quit as Sec of State and make another run against him (her platform will be "see I told ya so, now vote for me, dumbasses"). If she wants to be president, she has to run in 2012 or it is over for her. she will be too old in 2016 to run for first term. Hopey and Changey speeches will not cut it with high unemployment and double digit inflation.
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 04:55 PM (pLs/O)
647
Ad rem,
You seriously overstate how "pro-active" I can be.
I got whacked about this re: Fred Thompson, who I LIKED and SUPPORTED BTW!, because I wasn't pushing him 24/7 and was reporting that the polls said he wasn't catching on.
This is part of the problem. Seriously: Not even the MSM can shape opinion in the ways you want to shape it, and they are huge, ubiquitous, and single-minded.
It is simply absurd -- absurd! -- to even suggest a blogger attempt anything like this.
The only thing that happens if I push Palin or Thompson is that make Palin or Thompson fans happy (and the fans of their rivals unhappy).
It does not shape opinion at all. Or to an extent so trivial as to be discountable. Opinion can't be shaped on blogs -- only passion for that opinion and useful channels of expression (such as listing phone numbers for congressmen on amnesty votes).
The thing is, I know that I have not changed anyone's mind on this blog about something they believed. Like, almost ever. Maybe a few times, that's it.
I know you guys aren't persuadable by me. Few have ever said, "Hey, I took a contrary position before, but you have convinced me with argument."
That's not the way it tends to work. Where people are swayed at all it's about things they haven't thought about before, and therefore had no opinions to shift. Like when I wrote about how the media frames reports as Democrats as the active-voice subjects/protagonists, Republicans as the passive-voice subjects/antagonists. Some people hadn't thought of that; others had noted it, but not thought it about far enough to commit it to written record. In a corner-case like that, people can be 'swayed."
But note there people already agreed with me on the main thrust (the media is biased). This was simply a new way of describing that which people already believed.
So, then: I complain that people want me to hide negative polls and suppress them. I contend that they themselves want that information, they just dont' want OTHER PEOPLE to see the polls, people they imagine are dumb and likely to succumb to the bandwagon effect and change allegiances (against our candidates) based on bad poll numbers.
Similarly, when people say "Use your influence," I think they know they themselves could NEVER be influenced by me at all. they believe what they believe. I can argue for their beliefs or I can argue against them, but either way, their beliefs aren't changing -- they will like the posts that agree with them and dislike (or at least disagree with) the posts that don't agree with them, and that's it.
However, people know that they THEMSELVES are pretty confident in most of their beliefs and cannot be swayed by some stupid ewok moronblogger -- but they believe that there are all sorts of OTHER PEOPLE, people dumber and less certain of things than they are, who CAN be persuaded.
Thus this perpetual request from strong-minded, highly-opinionated people that I use the blog to "influence" opinion.
Infuence WHOM? You lot? You strong-minded, argumentative, persnickety, high-opinioned news junkies and political hawks? Influence YOU? You know I can't influence you. So who do you mean?
You mean influence OTHER PEOPLE, the "weak-minded" among us who are succeptible to a bit of the Jedi Blog Trick.
The trouble is -- almost all of you are of the strong minded/difficult to persuade type. You keep postulating in your heads that there are all these OTHER PEOPLE -- weak, uneducated, and easily led, as the Washington Post once described conservatives -- and that I should attempt to persuade them.
Well, they don't exist or they barely exist.
So who are you talking about, really? Nobody, that's who.
You seriously overstate how "pro-active" I can be.
I got whacked about this re: Fred Thompson, who I LIKED and SUPPORTED BTW!, because I wasn't pushing him 24/7 and was reporting that the polls said he wasn't catching on.
This is part of the problem. Seriously: Not even the MSM can shape opinion in the ways you want to shape it, and they are huge, ubiquitous, and single-minded.
It is simply absurd -- absurd! -- to even suggest a blogger attempt anything like this.
The only thing that happens if I push Palin or Thompson is that make Palin or Thompson fans happy (and the fans of their rivals unhappy).
It does not shape opinion at all. Or to an extent so trivial as to be discountable. Opinion can't be shaped on blogs -- only passion for that opinion and useful channels of expression (such as listing phone numbers for congressmen on amnesty votes).
The thing is, I know that I have not changed anyone's mind on this blog about something they believed. Like, almost ever. Maybe a few times, that's it.
I know you guys aren't persuadable by me. Few have ever said, "Hey, I took a contrary position before, but you have convinced me with argument."
That's not the way it tends to work. Where people are swayed at all it's about things they haven't thought about before, and therefore had no opinions to shift. Like when I wrote about how the media frames reports as Democrats as the active-voice subjects/protagonists, Republicans as the passive-voice subjects/antagonists. Some people hadn't thought of that; others had noted it, but not thought it about far enough to commit it to written record. In a corner-case like that, people can be 'swayed."
But note there people already agreed with me on the main thrust (the media is biased). This was simply a new way of describing that which people already believed.
So, then: I complain that people want me to hide negative polls and suppress them. I contend that they themselves want that information, they just dont' want OTHER PEOPLE to see the polls, people they imagine are dumb and likely to succumb to the bandwagon effect and change allegiances (against our candidates) based on bad poll numbers.
Similarly, when people say "Use your influence," I think they know they themselves could NEVER be influenced by me at all. they believe what they believe. I can argue for their beliefs or I can argue against them, but either way, their beliefs aren't changing -- they will like the posts that agree with them and dislike (or at least disagree with) the posts that don't agree with them, and that's it.
However, people know that they THEMSELVES are pretty confident in most of their beliefs and cannot be swayed by some stupid ewok moronblogger -- but they believe that there are all sorts of OTHER PEOPLE, people dumber and less certain of things than they are, who CAN be persuaded.
Thus this perpetual request from strong-minded, highly-opinionated people that I use the blog to "influence" opinion.
Infuence WHOM? You lot? You strong-minded, argumentative, persnickety, high-opinioned news junkies and political hawks? Influence YOU? You know I can't influence you. So who do you mean?
You mean influence OTHER PEOPLE, the "weak-minded" among us who are succeptible to a bit of the Jedi Blog Trick.
The trouble is -- almost all of you are of the strong minded/difficult to persuade type. You keep postulating in your heads that there are all these OTHER PEOPLE -- weak, uneducated, and easily led, as the Washington Post once described conservatives -- and that I should attempt to persuade them.
Well, they don't exist or they barely exist.
So who are you talking about, really? Nobody, that's who.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:04 PM (JQ+0C)
648
Well hello folks,
It would seem that between the time of laying under a rock and the time it took to get thru all 659 thread count sheets;I haven't missed much.
Now for my two cents on this Palin adventure.
I have to admit that the news and timing was a bit for a loop,and generally that shit doesn't surprise me in the least bit with today's Friday night info.dump that has become a regular event for our time.
Palin has a knack for doing the unconventional and that has a bit of intrigue and mystery about her.It is what makes herattractive as a political figure to me,and not part of the usual academia froth, that I so despise.Such arrogance with that lot.Some of her critics proclaim that she isn't well educated in the sphere of international relations for example,and that she will need to bone up to get up to speed.I laugh at the clowns whom underestimate her potential to lead,and or command.
As far as the decision on who to pick as a running mate to be her bitch,well that is easy,its the girl with the giant balls that estrogen has displaced in all of humanity.Now shut your mouth and get a fresh cup of milk,and wait for her answer.
I think that she has a plan and there is a means to an end.
It would seem that between the time of laying under a rock and the time it took to get thru all 659 thread count sheets;I haven't missed much.
Now for my two cents on this Palin adventure.
I have to admit that the news and timing was a bit for a loop,and generally that shit doesn't surprise me in the least bit with today's Friday night info.dump that has become a regular event for our time.
Palin has a knack for doing the unconventional and that has a bit of intrigue and mystery about her.It is what makes herattractive as a political figure to me,and not part of the usual academia froth, that I so despise.Such arrogance with that lot.Some of her critics proclaim that she isn't well educated in the sphere of international relations for example,and that she will need to bone up to get up to speed.I laugh at the clowns whom underestimate her potential to lead,and or command.
As far as the decision on who to pick as a running mate to be her bitch,well that is easy,its the girl with the giant balls that estrogen has displaced in all of humanity.Now shut your mouth and get a fresh cup of milk,and wait for her answer.
I think that she has a plan and there is a means to an end.
Posted by: rblancard at July 05, 2009 05:09 PM (fL1Dv)
649
"As you can tell, I am really tired of this insistence that everyone be relentless cheerleaders..."
Ace, nobody's slamming you for not being a relentless cheerleader for Palin, but for pronouncing her "dead in the water".
"As you can tell, I am really tired of this insistence that everyone be relentless cheerleaders..."
Ace, nobody's slamming you for not being a relentless cheerleader for Palin, but for pronouncing her "dead in the water".
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 05:14 PM (0cY8h)
650
Serious question. Is there really a difference with what Palin did and what Huntsman did? Granted Huntsman was in his second term but still "quit" to work for Obama. Are his chances for future office gone? Do the people of Utah give a shit about why he quit? How is this response different than Palins:
I hope the good people of Utah will forgive me and understand how
proud they should be of their governor for his willingness to serve,
Mr. Obama said. He always puts country ahead of himself. Thats what
Jon has always done.
I hope the good people of Utah will forgive me and understand how
proud they should be of their governor for his willingness to serve,
Mr. Obama said. He always puts country ahead of himself. Thats what
Jon has always done.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 05:17 PM (yAqqi)
651
Oh, by the way:
I stopped pushing Giuliani, despite being a fan of his from very early on, because yeah, I calculated he could not win and therefore it didn't matter that I liked him. I anticipated that not enough people would like him to elect him, so I stopped supporting him, except in a very trivial way.
So yes, I discard candidates i think can't be elected or who have become unelectable, no matter what my personal evaluation might be.
I stopped pushing Giuliani, despite being a fan of his from very early on, because yeah, I calculated he could not win and therefore it didn't matter that I liked him. I anticipated that not enough people would like him to elect him, so I stopped supporting him, except in a very trivial way.
So yes, I discard candidates i think can't be elected or who have become unelectable, no matter what my personal evaluation might be.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:18 PM (JQ+0C)
652
Ace: Dude she's dead in the water.
Mark Levin: She's running for president, get used to it.
I'm with Levin on this one. They call him The Great One.
Ace: Dude she's dead in the water.
Mark Levin: She's running for president, get used to it.
I'm with Levin on this one. They call him The Great One.
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 05:18 PM (0cY8h)
653
TendStl,
Accepting a promotion is not the same as quitting.
If Palin's accepting a promotion, let me know. As far as I know the most she will say is that she has some vague plans to be an unofficial spokeswoman for some issues.
Accepting a promotion is not the same as quitting.
If Palin's accepting a promotion, let me know. As far as I know the most she will say is that she has some vague plans to be an unofficial spokeswoman for some issues.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:22 PM (JQ+0C)
654
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:18 PM (JQ+0C)
I was actually wanting Palin to enter the race last spring. But was a teh FrEd supporter, but as soon as I saw he always looked like he needed a nap I was like damn.
I was actually wanting Palin to enter the race last spring. But was a teh FrEd supporter, but as soon as I saw he always looked like he needed a nap I was like damn.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 05:23 PM (yAqqi)
655
actually, huntsman didn't accept a "promotion." But it is an enticing lateral type move. Maybe a little up or down depending on your perspective. A little down, I guess. But ambassador is a big title, even if it's not as big a job as governor.
It's not as if Sarah Palin is resigning for some other job. Or at least we haven't heard of it.
It's not as if Sarah Palin is resigning for some other job. Or at least we haven't heard of it.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:24 PM (JQ+0C)
656
Accepting a promotion is not the same as quitting.
If Palin's accepting a promotion, let me know. As far as I know the
most she will say is that she has some vague plans to be an unofficial
spokeswoman for some issues.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:22 PM (JQ+0C)
Fair enough, but some would say that it isn't a promotion. If you were a Utah voter and voted him into office and against Obama, how upset are you going to be that your guy accepted a position with a radical president in essence to remove you from national politics.
If Palin's accepting a promotion, let me know. As far as I know the
most she will say is that she has some vague plans to be an unofficial
spokeswoman for some issues.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:22 PM (JQ+0C)
Fair enough, but some would say that it isn't a promotion. If you were a Utah voter and voted him into office and against Obama, how upset are you going to be that your guy accepted a position with a radical president in essence to remove you from national politics.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 05:25 PM (yAqqi)
657
>>>Mark Levin: She's running for president, get used to it.
shrug. The brevity of his statement tells me something.
Mark Steyn calls this an awful move. So I'm with Steyn.
shrug. The brevity of his statement tells me something.
Mark Steyn calls this an awful move. So I'm with Steyn.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:25 PM (JQ+0C)
658
Wow. What an amazing discussion. I have to say that I agree with Ace on this one, she's through with electoral politics, largely for personal reasons.
But honestly, folks, we should not be getting so worked up over this. Sarah Palin is a human being, not a God-like Messiah Savior. We are supposed to be the ones who believed in rugged individualism. Neither Sarah Palin nor any other politician represents our salvation. We must create our own salvation. That is always what I have liked most about conservatism, its independent spirit.
So yeah, Sarah quit, it's a bummer. Now let's get back to saving ourselves.
But honestly, folks, we should not be getting so worked up over this. Sarah Palin is a human being, not a God-like Messiah Savior. We are supposed to be the ones who believed in rugged individualism. Neither Sarah Palin nor any other politician represents our salvation. We must create our own salvation. That is always what I have liked most about conservatism, its independent spirit.
So yeah, Sarah quit, it's a bummer. Now let's get back to saving ourselves.
Posted by: chemjeff at July 05, 2009 05:27 PM (nKA5J)
659
Ace, again I really dont mean to keep beating this carcass, but. If she does more for the RNC and the conservative movement in the next 3 years who are republicans more likely to forgive for "quitting"?
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 05:29 PM (yAqqi)
660
Yes, they would, but bear in mind she cited the attacks on her family as one reason to resign, which makes me think she will not choose to become the Joan of Arc of the GOP.
Posted by: ace at July 05, 2009 05:31 PM (JQ+0C)
661
Ace...re #667,
Wow...I find your hypothesis regarding how opinion is shaped a fascinating one. The psychologist in me finds it hard to believe that people aren't a whole lot more susceptible to suggestion, be it overt or covert, than one might think . Heck, we have an entire advertising empire built on the subliminal. Whether or not opinion can be shaped by blogs is not something I'm prepared to completely write off....allthough, it could be argued to what degree. Ace, I think you greatly underestimate the effect you have on your readership....your opinions are taken into great consideration....look we're almost at the 700th. post!
Wow...I find your hypothesis regarding how opinion is shaped a fascinating one. The psychologist in me finds it hard to believe that people aren't a whole lot more susceptible to suggestion, be it overt or covert, than one might think . Heck, we have an entire advertising empire built on the subliminal. Whether or not opinion can be shaped by blogs is not something I'm prepared to completely write off....allthough, it could be argued to what degree. Ace, I think you greatly underestimate the effect you have on your readership....your opinions are taken into great consideration....look we're almost at the 700th. post!
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 05:32 PM (d3dk0)
662
(667)
That was a good one.You are right to point out that we all have a predisposed ideology in what we think.I will be man enough to confirm that.
We must all in the end go with the flow that will further our ideology for a means to an end.Debate reminds us that we are of consequence and we can collectively change our outcome,if we band together.That is the faith that we practice.
If that fails to work,well,there is always pitchforks...and the like.
Mine's, is so sharp,and waiting.
That was a good one.You are right to point out that we all have a predisposed ideology in what we think.I will be man enough to confirm that.
We must all in the end go with the flow that will further our ideology for a means to an end.Debate reminds us that we are of consequence and we can collectively change our outcome,if we band together.That is the faith that we practice.
If that fails to work,well,there is always pitchforks...and the like.
Mine's, is so sharp,and waiting.
Posted by: rblancard at July 05, 2009 05:32 PM (fL1Dv)
663
Sarah Palin's July 4th message (highlights mine):
On this Independence Day, I am so very proud of all those who have
chosen to serve our great nation and I honor their selflessness and the
sacrifices of their families, too.
If I may, I would like to take a moment to reflect on the last 24 hours and share my thoughts with you.
First, I want to thank you for your support and hard work on the values
we share. Those values led me to the decision my family and I made.
Yesterday, my family and I announced a decision that is in Alaskas
best interest and it always feels good to do what is right. We have
accomplished more during this one term than most governors do in two
and I am proud of the great team that helped to build these wonderful
successes. Energy independence and national security, fiscal restraint,
smaller government, and local control have been my priorities and will
remain my priorities.
For months now, I have consulted with friends and family, and with the
Lieutenant Governor, about what is best for our wonderful state. I even
made a few administrative changes over that course in time in
preparation for yesterday. We have accomplished so much and theres
much more to do, but my family and I determined after prayerful
consideration that sacrificing my title helps Alaska most. And once I
decided not to run for re-election, my decision was that much easier
Ive never been one to waste time or resources. Those who know me know
this is the right decision and obvious decision at that, including
Senator John McCain. I thank him for his kind, insightful comments.
The response in the main stream media has been most predictable,
ironic, and as always, detached from the lives of ordinary Americans
who are sick of the politics of personal destruction. How sad that
Washington and the media will never understand; its about country. And
though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for
a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by
now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I
make. But every American understands what it takes to make a decision
because its right for all, including your family.
I shared with you yesterday my heartfelt and candid reasons for this
change; Ive never thought I needed a title before ones name to forge
progress in America. I am now looking ahead and how we can advance this
country together with our values of less government intervention,
greater energy independence, stronger national security, and
much-needed fiscal restraint. I hope you will join me. Now is the time
to rebuild and help our nation achieve greatness!
God bless you! And I look forward to making a difference with you!
Sarah
***************
Firstly...we're trusting her because she asked us to trust her and so far, she hasn't given us a reason to doubt her motivations.
Secondly...what she said in her speech Friday was pretty clear that this was in the best interest for Alaska. If you don't understand why, please check out the FloppingAces.net link Vic posted above. It will lay out why it was imperative for Palin to resign like she did. She did not quit. And every time a conservative makes that claim, you are playing right into the hands of the left. I'm sorry...I know that's harsh. But it is true. READ up on what's going on in Alaska and figure it out for yourself.
Thirdly...at this time, Sarah Palin is the only one on the playing field who embodies most if not all of what I believe. She lives her message. It's not just words to her...she really means it. She's also a creative thinker and planner. She's the only one so far who has shown the ability to do the things we need to do to counter what Obama's doing.
Fourthly...I said Friday and I say it again. Bloggers, the state-run media and pundits alike do not know what to do with a principled woman. There HAS to be some other reason. Is she sick? Is she tired of the crap? Does she just wanna be left alone? Uh..no. She's a fighter. She said she was going to fight and she meant it. Where in her history has she ever backed down from a challenge? Why would you assume it now given what you know about her?
Fifthly...her words are not the one of someone who's slinking off to the private sector. Like Allison Camerotta said, this reads like a stump speech.
Do I believe Palin wants to be President? Quite possibly. It could also be that the "higher calling" would be to help get conservatives retake the House and Senate. She's been begged for help but of course, every time she does anything, she's slapped with another ethics violation. Now citizen Sarah won't have that problem.
And folks if that's all she's planning to do...that right there is a great start. But I personally believe she's going for the Oval Office. She can affect real, positive, Republic-saving change like few can. She has the appeal of the most unusual of supporters...people who I'd never associate as supporting her. And I believe she can use the time til 2012 expanding her boarders. I think she could be quite Reaganesque in her appeal with people of all parties.
So now...can we please stop psychoanalyzing why Palin supports choose to trust in her...because she asked us to? Can we please stop whinging and moaning about something that will seem so trivial in a few months...ie, Palin's resignation?
Can we now actually support conservatives full bore and not settle for the establishment or the left's choices for us?
On this Independence Day, I am so very proud of all those who have
chosen to serve our great nation and I honor their selflessness and the
sacrifices of their families, too.
If I may, I would like to take a moment to reflect on the last 24 hours and share my thoughts with you.
First, I want to thank you for your support and hard work on the values
we share. Those values led me to the decision my family and I made.
Yesterday, my family and I announced a decision that is in Alaskas
best interest and it always feels good to do what is right. We have
accomplished more during this one term than most governors do in two
and I am proud of the great team that helped to build these wonderful
successes. Energy independence and national security, fiscal restraint,
smaller government, and local control have been my priorities and will
remain my priorities.
For months now, I have consulted with friends and family, and with the
Lieutenant Governor, about what is best for our wonderful state. I even
made a few administrative changes over that course in time in
preparation for yesterday. We have accomplished so much and theres
much more to do, but my family and I determined after prayerful
consideration that sacrificing my title helps Alaska most. And once I
decided not to run for re-election, my decision was that much easier
Ive never been one to waste time or resources. Those who know me know
this is the right decision and obvious decision at that, including
Senator John McCain. I thank him for his kind, insightful comments.
The response in the main stream media has been most predictable,
ironic, and as always, detached from the lives of ordinary Americans
who are sick of the politics of personal destruction. How sad that
Washington and the media will never understand; its about country. And
though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for
a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by
now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I
make. But every American understands what it takes to make a decision
because its right for all, including your family.
I shared with you yesterday my heartfelt and candid reasons for this
change; Ive never thought I needed a title before ones name to forge
progress in America. I am now looking ahead and how we can advance this
country together with our values of less government intervention,
greater energy independence, stronger national security, and
much-needed fiscal restraint. I hope you will join me. Now is the time
to rebuild and help our nation achieve greatness!
God bless you! And I look forward to making a difference with you!
Sarah
***************
Firstly...we're trusting her because she asked us to trust her and so far, she hasn't given us a reason to doubt her motivations.
Secondly...what she said in her speech Friday was pretty clear that this was in the best interest for Alaska. If you don't understand why, please check out the FloppingAces.net link Vic posted above. It will lay out why it was imperative for Palin to resign like she did. She did not quit. And every time a conservative makes that claim, you are playing right into the hands of the left. I'm sorry...I know that's harsh. But it is true. READ up on what's going on in Alaska and figure it out for yourself.
Thirdly...at this time, Sarah Palin is the only one on the playing field who embodies most if not all of what I believe. She lives her message. It's not just words to her...she really means it. She's also a creative thinker and planner. She's the only one so far who has shown the ability to do the things we need to do to counter what Obama's doing.
Fourthly...I said Friday and I say it again. Bloggers, the state-run media and pundits alike do not know what to do with a principled woman. There HAS to be some other reason. Is she sick? Is she tired of the crap? Does she just wanna be left alone? Uh..no. She's a fighter. She said she was going to fight and she meant it. Where in her history has she ever backed down from a challenge? Why would you assume it now given what you know about her?
Fifthly...her words are not the one of someone who's slinking off to the private sector. Like Allison Camerotta said, this reads like a stump speech.
Do I believe Palin wants to be President? Quite possibly. It could also be that the "higher calling" would be to help get conservatives retake the House and Senate. She's been begged for help but of course, every time she does anything, she's slapped with another ethics violation. Now citizen Sarah won't have that problem.
And folks if that's all she's planning to do...that right there is a great start. But I personally believe she's going for the Oval Office. She can affect real, positive, Republic-saving change like few can. She has the appeal of the most unusual of supporters...people who I'd never associate as supporting her. And I believe she can use the time til 2012 expanding her boarders. I think she could be quite Reaganesque in her appeal with people of all parties.
So now...can we please stop psychoanalyzing why Palin supports choose to trust in her...because she asked us to? Can we please stop whinging and moaning about something that will seem so trivial in a few months...ie, Palin's resignation?
Can we now actually support conservatives full bore and not settle for the establishment or the left's choices for us?
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 05:34 PM (JPEqm)
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 05:34 PM (0cY8h)
665
chemjeff: "That is always what I have liked most about conservatism, its independent spirit."
Gotta coalesce somewhere to be effective. Palin's sphere is it for me right now.
Are conservatives too individualistic for their own good? If you're a statist, glomming on to groupthink is natural. If you're not, it isn't. Consequently, the circular firing squads in our midst are more intense and self-defeating.
Just a top of the head hypothesis. Could have some validity. Early conclusion? We're screwed.
Plus, look at Ace. The guy backs a Canadian-American over an American-American. Ridiculous. He just doesn't get this tribal warfare at all.
Gotta coalesce somewhere to be effective. Palin's sphere is it for me right now.
Are conservatives too individualistic for their own good? If you're a statist, glomming on to groupthink is natural. If you're not, it isn't. Consequently, the circular firing squads in our midst are more intense and self-defeating.
Just a top of the head hypothesis. Could have some validity. Early conclusion? We're screwed.
Plus, look at Ace. The guy backs a Canadian-American over an American-American. Ridiculous. He just doesn't get this tribal warfare at all.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 05:37 PM (rZ235)
666
Ann Coulter explains Palin's resignation:
http://bit.ly/wf9YR
I LOVE this woman. LOVE. I'm a Coulter Ditto head.
http://bit.ly/wf9YR
I LOVE this woman. LOVE. I'm a Coulter Ditto head.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 05:41 PM (JPEqm)
667
Very nice Marybeth,
I think you've grabbed it around the neck!
Some want to question the timing and not the message.Also,something about blind faith and deliverance.
I'm firm in my resolve to let the cards fall where they may, and see what she wants to do.Palin will have my support until she says;I'm is politically done.
There you go.
I think you've grabbed it around the neck!
Some want to question the timing and not the message.Also,something about blind faith and deliverance.
I'm firm in my resolve to let the cards fall where they may, and see what she wants to do.Palin will have my support until she says;I'm is politically done.
There you go.
Posted by: rblancard at July 05, 2009 05:42 PM (fL1Dv)
668
Are conservatives too individualistic for their own good?
At times, yes. But I would rather us suffer from an abundance of individualism than an abundance of collectivism.
Gotta coalesce somewhere to be effective.
To be effective in doing what? That's the big question. I imagine, what if government created a program and no one signed up? The fiscal conservative strategy for shrinking government was to cut taxes, so that government would wither on the vine. That didn't work out, because government just borrowed the money instead. So I say, just refuse to participate in the government programs. We don't need a Sarah Palin to do that. We can do it ourselves.
At times, yes. But I would rather us suffer from an abundance of individualism than an abundance of collectivism.
Gotta coalesce somewhere to be effective.
To be effective in doing what? That's the big question. I imagine, what if government created a program and no one signed up? The fiscal conservative strategy for shrinking government was to cut taxes, so that government would wither on the vine. That didn't work out, because government just borrowed the money instead. So I say, just refuse to participate in the government programs. We don't need a Sarah Palin to do that. We can do it ourselves.
Posted by: chemjeff at July 05, 2009 05:45 PM (nKA5J)
669
To be honest, I really dig Liz Cheney. If she could change her last name I could get behind that. She articulates policies and arguments that leaves libruls drooling at the mouth.
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 05:46 PM (yAqqi)
670
"Dude, I think she is dead in the water."
People once thought the same thing about Jason Vorhees... big mistake!
At least her poll numbers are better than his.
People once thought the same thing about Jason Vorhees... big mistake!
At least her poll numbers are better than his.
Posted by: Watcher at July 05, 2009 05:47 PM (WiOp9)
671
Plus, look at Ace. The guy backs a Canadian-American over an American-American.
Huh? Which Canadian-American?
Huh? Which Canadian-American?
Posted by: chemjeff at July 05, 2009 05:47 PM (nKA5J)
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 05:48 PM (JPEqm)
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 05:49 PM (LxYp2)
674
When the shit hits the proverbial fan,then you can wish you were to individualistic.
Since we are dealing with the status quo,getting dinner at a consistent time and with little effort,we will keep it real simple.
The only thing that you will be allow to do in the near future is to pick between the lesser of two evils.Pick wisely,Phroto, for the day will come when you may depend on your on effort to survive.
So here in lies the point of my little conversation.Would you rather take in a Huntress, or a Academic in your lodge for material support?
Thought so.
Since we are dealing with the status quo,getting dinner at a consistent time and with little effort,we will keep it real simple.
The only thing that you will be allow to do in the near future is to pick between the lesser of two evils.Pick wisely,Phroto, for the day will come when you may depend on your on effort to survive.
So here in lies the point of my little conversation.Would you rather take in a Huntress, or a Academic in your lodge for material support?
Thought so.
Posted by: rblancard at July 05, 2009 05:54 PM (fL1Dv)
675
chemjeff:
So I say, just refuse to participate in the government programs.
excellent. Bury your head deep enough and there's no way anything will eat you because you can't see the predators and it would just be unfair.
When your tax rates double to pay for everyone who does participate, how does your noble gesture matter? If the USA is to be salvaged, Obama must go down hard, and Palin is the only politician willing to make the effort.
So I say, just refuse to participate in the government programs.
excellent. Bury your head deep enough and there's no way anything will eat you because you can't see the predators and it would just be unfair.
When your tax rates double to pay for everyone who does participate, how does your noble gesture matter? If the USA is to be salvaged, Obama must go down hard, and Palin is the only politician willing to make the effort.
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 05:55 PM (LxYp2)
676
All due respect folks. All those links to responses from Limbaugh, Levin Coulter have been posted about 300 comments ago. Those just joining the show I know want to contribute but what I do is use the search function on IE or Firefox to see if it has been posted yet. Love ya!
/blog nazi off
/blog nazi off
Posted by: TendStl at July 05, 2009 05:59 PM (yAqqi)
677
chemjeff: "...We can do it ourselves."
Apparently we can't because both parties are big-gov conglomerates. We, conservatives, seem to think we can, but we provably cannot.
So, what to do? The only thing I can think of is to select individuals who live smaller government, campaign on it, and vote on it. Proof-pudding sort of thing. But the most important part of this shift is to get these small-gov types to teach an ignorant public. I mean make it a focus of their service to their constituents. Only if they lead the masses can the actual practice of shrinking government occur. Tedious and time-consuming? Yes. But wasting a continuously expanding government's time is effort well spent. Proactive neglect - deliberately planned and advertised. It's quite a conundrum, but the only way I see for the public to escape the morass.
The conservative class cannot stop, on its own without the levers of government under their control, the current paradigm. It simply cannot be done. The mechanism needed is to slowly convert the political make-up of our leadership and hold them to their previous promises of smaller government.
This will take generations. We are a conservative nation, but the term "conservative" is not what it once was. That is the barrier to be overcome. Recalibrating the voter's perceptions and expectations must occur. But we'' need leaders to teach... to, well, lead.
Apparently we can't because both parties are big-gov conglomerates. We, conservatives, seem to think we can, but we provably cannot.
So, what to do? The only thing I can think of is to select individuals who live smaller government, campaign on it, and vote on it. Proof-pudding sort of thing. But the most important part of this shift is to get these small-gov types to teach an ignorant public. I mean make it a focus of their service to their constituents. Only if they lead the masses can the actual practice of shrinking government occur. Tedious and time-consuming? Yes. But wasting a continuously expanding government's time is effort well spent. Proactive neglect - deliberately planned and advertised. It's quite a conundrum, but the only way I see for the public to escape the morass.
The conservative class cannot stop, on its own without the levers of government under their control, the current paradigm. It simply cannot be done. The mechanism needed is to slowly convert the political make-up of our leadership and hold them to their previous promises of smaller government.
This will take generations. We are a conservative nation, but the term "conservative" is not what it once was. That is the barrier to be overcome. Recalibrating the voter's perceptions and expectations must occur. But we'' need leaders to teach... to, well, lead.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 06:01 PM (rZ235)
678
Posted by: Methos at July 05, 2009 05:55 PM (LxYp2)
Obviously it can't be a one-person affair. We've got to convince our friends and neighbors not to participate as well. I would rather do that then campaign for any politician, even Sarah Palin, who will end up letting us down in the end. Not entirely their own fault; they are human beings and that is what human beings do, let people down.
Obviously it can't be a one-person affair. We've got to convince our friends and neighbors not to participate as well. I would rather do that then campaign for any politician, even Sarah Palin, who will end up letting us down in the end. Not entirely their own fault; they are human beings and that is what human beings do, let people down.
Posted by: chemjeff at July 05, 2009 06:01 PM (nKA5J)
679
Why do pundits think it's part of their job to go around making all kinds of predictions?
Ed Morissey, for instance- For the last couple months, somewhere in the first paragraph of every post he would write on Sotomayor, the following sentence
would be used:
"She's going to be confirmed, they've got the votes."
He would write that- over and over and over again. Why?
Now, just last week, in the wake of the Ricci decision, he posted a piece on Sotomayor's prospects entitled:
Sotomayor Confirmation in Jeopardy?
How could that possibly be Ed? Didn't you predict over and over and over again that "She's going to be confirmed"?.
WTF?
It's seemed for the past couple days, that Conservative punditry is a bunch of jerks in a circle screaming thru their blow-horns: Defeat! Defeat! Defeat! - and then at some point in the future, when it seems the battle might still be won, they'll scream: Fight! Fight! Fight!
So Ace will support Palin, but not till she goes over 55%, and until then he'll be shouting thru his blowhorn:
"Dude, she's dead in the water!"
Why am I not getting this?
Why do pundits think it's part of their job to go around making all kinds of predictions?
Ed Morissey, for instance- For the last couple months, somewhere in the first paragraph of every post he would write on Sotomayor, the following sentence
would be used:
"She's going to be confirmed, they've got the votes."
He would write that- over and over and over again. Why?
Now, just last week, in the wake of the Ricci decision, he posted a piece on Sotomayor's prospects entitled:
Sotomayor Confirmation in Jeopardy?
How could that possibly be Ed? Didn't you predict over and over and over again that "She's going to be confirmed"?.
WTF?
It's seemed for the past couple days, that Conservative punditry is a bunch of jerks in a circle screaming thru their blow-horns: Defeat! Defeat! Defeat! - and then at some point in the future, when it seems the battle might still be won, they'll scream: Fight! Fight! Fight!
So Ace will support Palin, but not till she goes over 55%, and until then he'll be shouting thru his blowhorn:
"Dude, she's dead in the water!"
Why am I not getting this?
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 06:01 PM (0cY8h)
680
My bad. Please don't hurt me, blog nazi.
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 06:03 PM (JPEqm)
681
I suppose I am just a cynic and misanthrope on the matter. I have next to zero faith in any politician to actually do anything worthwhile to improve my life, or even to keep their promises. The only thing I am sure of, and the only thing that I have any control over, is my own level of commitment.
Posted by: chemjeff at July 05, 2009 06:04 PM (nKA5J)
682
chemjeff: "Which Canadian-American?"
I was referring to Steyn. I thought he was Canadian-American. My mistake. Turns out he's Vanilla-Canadian. Which is much worse. He's practically Scandi.
Which means Ace is even more off-base than I imagined.
I was referring to Steyn. I thought he was Canadian-American. My mistake. Turns out he's Vanilla-Canadian. Which is much worse. He's practically Scandi.
Which means Ace is even more off-base than I imagined.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 06:06 PM (rZ235)
683
No one's posted Mark Tapscott's of the Washington Examiner view (I checked):
****
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's announcement of her resignation cannot be
read in terms of the conventional wisdom of politics - i.e. that she's
getting out ahead of some damaging political revelation she knows is
right around the corner, she's fed up with the constant personal
attacks on her and her family, or she's running for president in 2012
and wants to be free of the constraints of office.
A close
reading of her actual words in her announcement reveals otherwise. The
key fact about Palin is that she is not a conventional politician. She
actually means what she says, which is why her statement must be read
in light of that fact, not that she has ulterior motives.
[...]
Palin
is offended that liberal Democrats and their allies in the elite media
have and will evidently continue manufacturing baseless but sensational
accusations against her that require her and her staff to devote
official time to responding in order to set the record straight. She
sincerely believes Alaska should have a full-time governor, not one who
is continually distracted by baseless ethics allegations that must be
addressed.
And Palin is choosing to "turn a negative into a
positive" by freeing herself to in effect be able to respond full-time
to her critics and in the process build up like-thinking candidates and
officials throughout America (don't miss the significance of her remark
about such individuals in either party or of no party).
Put
otherwise, Palin is embarking on an independent path in nationa
politics that, if she is successful, will lead to a new third force.
Not necessarily a third party, but definitely a populist insurrection
that could reshape American politics for years to come. Does the Tea
Party Protests movement come to mind?
Prisoners of conventional
wisdom almost certainly will miss the significance of Palin's decision.
But they've never understood why she struck such a powerful chord with
everyday Americans in 2008, so we ought not be surprised that this
announcement is completey beyond their ability to understand what is
really happening.
***
Read it all. http://bit.ly/fbYtT
****
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's announcement of her resignation cannot be
read in terms of the conventional wisdom of politics - i.e. that she's
getting out ahead of some damaging political revelation she knows is
right around the corner, she's fed up with the constant personal
attacks on her and her family, or she's running for president in 2012
and wants to be free of the constraints of office.
A close
reading of her actual words in her announcement reveals otherwise. The
key fact about Palin is that she is not a conventional politician. She
actually means what she says, which is why her statement must be read
in light of that fact, not that she has ulterior motives.
[...]
Palin
is offended that liberal Democrats and their allies in the elite media
have and will evidently continue manufacturing baseless but sensational
accusations against her that require her and her staff to devote
official time to responding in order to set the record straight. She
sincerely believes Alaska should have a full-time governor, not one who
is continually distracted by baseless ethics allegations that must be
addressed.
And Palin is choosing to "turn a negative into a
positive" by freeing herself to in effect be able to respond full-time
to her critics and in the process build up like-thinking candidates and
officials throughout America (don't miss the significance of her remark
about such individuals in either party or of no party).
Put
otherwise, Palin is embarking on an independent path in nationa
politics that, if she is successful, will lead to a new third force.
Not necessarily a third party, but definitely a populist insurrection
that could reshape American politics for years to come. Does the Tea
Party Protests movement come to mind?
Prisoners of conventional
wisdom almost certainly will miss the significance of Palin's decision.
But they've never understood why she struck such a powerful chord with
everyday Americans in 2008, so we ought not be surprised that this
announcement is completey beyond their ability to understand what is
really happening.
***
Read it all. http://bit.ly/fbYtT
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 06:14 PM (JPEqm)
684
Re Ace #677...
Thanks for the hat-tip to Steyns article. Read it, and in all honesty, I can't say it didn't influence my opinion somewhat. Those who dismiss him for being just Canadian lite.....he may be from Canada, but he's chosen to make his home here...and that makes him American enough for me. How anyone could read his book "American Alone" and not find him a patriot is beyond me.
Thanks for the hat-tip to Steyns article. Read it, and in all honesty, I can't say it didn't influence my opinion somewhat. Those who dismiss him for being just Canadian lite.....he may be from Canada, but he's chosen to make his home here...and that makes him American enough for me. How anyone could read his book "American Alone" and not find him a patriot is beyond me.
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:15 PM (d3dk0)
685
LOL, I went down to take a break and got hooked on an old classic on TV. Came back up and this thread is STILL going.
When it goes this long and still has the same characters going back and forth I figure all the key points are simply being repeated.
The key points are:
Only time will tell whether or not she is dead in the water.
There is no longer any conventional wisdom with regard to national politics so it is pointless to try to look for any.
Republicans need to quit eating their own. Sanford takes a trip to Argentina to cheat on his wife. You dont like it; fine dont vote for him. You want to attack him; fine do it in private. Palin announces resignation and explains why; take her at her word since her word has been pretty damn honest in the past. The only politicians we should be attacking in public are the Dems and Republicans that vote with the Dems.
They also need to develop a new strategy away from the squishy big tent crap they have been spouting since Reagan left office. The only time it is a winner is when the Dem candidate makes people puke.
When it goes this long and still has the same characters going back and forth I figure all the key points are simply being repeated.
The key points are:
Only time will tell whether or not she is dead in the water.
There is no longer any conventional wisdom with regard to national politics so it is pointless to try to look for any.
Republicans need to quit eating their own. Sanford takes a trip to Argentina to cheat on his wife. You dont like it; fine dont vote for him. You want to attack him; fine do it in private. Palin announces resignation and explains why; take her at her word since her word has been pretty damn honest in the past. The only politicians we should be attacking in public are the Dems and Republicans that vote with the Dems.
They also need to develop a new strategy away from the squishy big tent crap they have been spouting since Reagan left office. The only time it is a winner is when the Dem candidate makes people puke.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 06:16 PM (5ynkO)
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:20 PM (d3dk0)
687
Movie's over now.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 06:24 PM (5ynkO)
688
Does anyone here live near Simi Valley???
From IEPolitics.com:
Governor Sarah Palin to be speaker at Simi Valley Republican Women CelebrationPosted by Administrator on July 4, 2009 under Republicans The Simi Valley Club is having a 50th Anniversary Gala. Here is the data:
Guest Speaker GOVERNOR SARA PALIN
When:
Saturday, August 8, 2009:
5:30 p.m. Cocktail Reception and Tours
6:30 p.m. Dinner
Where:
Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum
40 Presidential Drive
Simi Valley, CA
COCKTAIL ATTIRE - NO CHILDREN UNDER 12
$150 PER PERSON UNLESS YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THEIR CLUB
REPLY BY JULY 20, 2009 WITH PAYMENT
MAKE CHECK PAYABLE TO SVRWF
RESERVATIONS NON-REFUNDABLE
From IEPolitics.com:
Governor Sarah Palin to be speaker at Simi Valley Republican Women CelebrationPosted by Administrator on July 4, 2009 under Republicans The Simi Valley Club is having a 50th Anniversary Gala. Here is the data:
Guest Speaker GOVERNOR SARA PALIN
When:
Saturday, August 8, 2009:
5:30 p.m. Cocktail Reception and Tours
6:30 p.m. Dinner
Where:
Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum
40 Presidential Drive
Simi Valley, CA
COCKTAIL ATTIRE - NO CHILDREN UNDER 12
$150 PER PERSON UNLESS YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THEIR CLUB
REPLY BY JULY 20, 2009 WITH PAYMENT
MAKE CHECK PAYABLE TO SVRWF
RESERVATIONS NON-REFUNDABLE
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 05, 2009 06:25 PM (JPEqm)
689
Mary Beth, thanks for the Tapscott link.
I'm just not getting how people aren't getting Palin. Tapscott does a nice job elucidating the essence of Palin. Maybe more will now get her.
I'm just not getting how people aren't getting Palin. Tapscott does a nice job elucidating the essence of Palin. Maybe more will now get her.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 06:30 PM (rZ235)
690
It could also be that the "higher calling" would be to help get conservatives retake the House and Senate.
And, seriously, if she managed to pull that off in 2010, would anyone here even care if she resigned early to do it?
And, seriously, if she managed to pull that off in 2010, would anyone here even care if she resigned early to do it?
Posted by: Tresjin at July 05, 2009 06:30 PM (MXOfg)
691
Oh yeah
Another conservative pundit and his "predictions" is Hugh Hewitt. I listened to that twit when I was stuck in traffic back during the Amnesty debate. Every freaking day he would repeat two things, sometimes shouting them at his callers who obviously weren't "realists" enough to understand:
"It's not amnesty" and "It's going to pass!"
And he shouted that over and over and over again. And as we all know, it WAS Amnesty and it DID'NT pass. Yet the twit never owned up.
Can't we get back to a Joe Friday type of "facts we know" type of analysis? Right now we seem to be in the "facts we don't know we know and facts we don't know that we don't know" area, that only Zen Master Rumsfeld could guide us through he's flown the coop.
Another conservative pundit and his "predictions" is Hugh Hewitt. I listened to that twit when I was stuck in traffic back during the Amnesty debate. Every freaking day he would repeat two things, sometimes shouting them at his callers who obviously weren't "realists" enough to understand:
"It's not amnesty" and "It's going to pass!"
And he shouted that over and over and over again. And as we all know, it WAS Amnesty and it DID'NT pass. Yet the twit never owned up.
Can't we get back to a Joe Friday type of "facts we know" type of analysis? Right now we seem to be in the "facts we don't know we know and facts we don't know that we don't know" area, that only Zen Master Rumsfeld could guide us through he's flown the coop.
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 06:34 PM (0cY8h)
692
You want to attack him; fine do it in private.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 06:16 PM (5ynkO)
Really? That's the plan? A guy goes butt fuck crazy, abandons his state
without telling anyone where he's going and the only approved public
statement is what? "That's interesting"?
One of the biggest names in politics does something totally unexpected
and people who comment on the news are only allowed to say either
"that's awesome" or "interesting".
But actually talking about the news and analyzing it in a way that
doesn't reflect all praise and glory on Sarah and her plans (whatever
they may turn out to be) is destructive and must be relegated to
shadowy conversations in private?
That's your vision for the Republican party?
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 06:16 PM (5ynkO)
Really? That's the plan? A guy goes butt fuck crazy, abandons his state
without telling anyone where he's going and the only approved public
statement is what? "That's interesting"?
One of the biggest names in politics does something totally unexpected
and people who comment on the news are only allowed to say either
"that's awesome" or "interesting".
But actually talking about the news and analyzing it in a way that
doesn't reflect all praise and glory on Sarah and her plans (whatever
they may turn out to be) is destructive and must be relegated to
shadowy conversations in private?
That's your vision for the Republican party?
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 06:36 PM (iTt2X)
693
Mary Beth,
Thanks for the info. regarding Palin at the Reagan Library. I'm in Palos Verdes, a ways south....but still close. I'll be there! ;-)
Thanks for the info. regarding Palin at the Reagan Library. I'm in Palos Verdes, a ways south....but still close. I'll be there! ;-)
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:37 PM (d3dk0)
694
sartana@711,
The prospect of Hewitt promoting Romney for the next 3.5 years should be enough incentive for people to keep looking at Palin... or anyone else.*
*this post does not help Mitt Romney
The prospect of Hewitt promoting Romney for the next 3.5 years should be enough incentive for people to keep looking at Palin... or anyone else.*
*this post does not help Mitt Romney
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 06:39 PM (rZ235)
695
Sartana@699
You put into words what I've been thinking but haven't known how to put tactfully.
I don't really get it, either.
You put into words what I've been thinking but haven't known how to put tactfully.
I don't really get it, either.
Posted by: Kensington at July 05, 2009 06:42 PM (ZqTlA)
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at July 05, 2009 06:43 PM (0cY8h)
697
Hugh Hewitt.......STFU!!!
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:45 PM (d3dk0)
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 06:45 PM (0cY8h)
699
It is the 14th commandment. You can say I dont agree with that but most everything after that should not be done.
We should not be eating our own.
We should not be eating our own.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 06:46 PM (5ynkO)
700
Santana,
Go back and read Aces posing..#667.....He explains it perfectly. He's not trying to shape anyones opinion for or against any particular candidate. Perhaps Ed is.
Go back and read Aces posing..#667.....He explains it perfectly. He's not trying to shape anyones opinion for or against any particular candidate. Perhaps Ed is.
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:47 PM (d3dk0)
701
This stuff about HH being pro amnesty bill is news to me. I was still big time at Townhall then and he was key in arranging calls and opposition to the bill.
In fact, he was able to get an early copy of the bill and getting a link posted to it.
In fact, he was able to get an early copy of the bill and getting a link posted to it.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 06:48 PM (5ynkO)
702
.......uh, that would be "posting"......
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:49 PM (d3dk0)
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 06:50 PM (0cY8h)
704
That reminds me, if we aren't to speak ill of Republicans in the light of day you may want to let Rush know that. I seem to recall him eviscerating Huckabee last year.
Does that not count because Rush is Rush or because Huck doesn't get protection?
How do we decide who may level public attacks and who is immune from them? Will there be a list?
I can see the new slogan...
"Welcome to the Republican party...all commentators and candidates are equal, but some are more equal than others"
Awesome!
Does that not count because Rush is Rush or because Huck doesn't get protection?
How do we decide who may level public attacks and who is immune from them? Will there be a list?
I can see the new slogan...
"Welcome to the Republican party...all commentators and candidates are equal, but some are more equal than others"
Awesome!
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 06:52 PM (iTt2X)
705
Re Vic...#721,
It is SO true....he was a big "pro-amnesty" shill until the election neared and it became obvious that it would be a losing proposition......then he just did a little reversal. He's a big Pawlenty fan too.......very moderate Repub.
It is SO true....he was a big "pro-amnesty" shill until the election neared and it became obvious that it would be a losing proposition......then he just did a little reversal. He's a big Pawlenty fan too.......very moderate Repub.
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:53 PM (d3dk0)
706
Vic: "We should not be eating our own."
Is that in response to #714? It's a joke. I gave money to Romney at one point in '08 primaries when he was the last remaining "conservative." Eh, what else was I going to do... give it to McCain?
So, I've purchased the right to goof on Hewitt at the expense of Romney. I think I still have a balance in my account, so this will not be the last poke.*
*this post does not help Mitt Romney; doesn't really hurt him either. It's just there... like a trap.
Is that in response to #714? It's a joke. I gave money to Romney at one point in '08 primaries when he was the last remaining "conservative." Eh, what else was I going to do... give it to McCain?
So, I've purchased the right to goof on Hewitt at the expense of Romney. I think I still have a balance in my account, so this will not be the last poke.*
*this post does not help Mitt Romney; doesn't really hurt him either. It's just there... like a trap.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 06:55 PM (rZ235)
707
I went to get the archives and they don't go back that far.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 06:56 PM (5ynkO)
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 06:56 PM (d3dk0)
709
Vic,
Yeah, Hewitt was an amnesty guy...
There is an urgent need to regularize the illegal population for a
variety of reasons, and to assure the flow of legal immigrants into the
country, a flow that has usually been welcomed and absorbed. The GOP
rejects the natavism of the extreme right, of course, and there are
compelling reasons to endorse guest worker programs and specialized
skill visas. There is also a widely-held belief in compassionate
treatment of the long resident illegal and their families. The e-mail
from one illegal, posted below, testifies to the extraordinary
complexity of the status of the millions who are watching and waiting
for this debate to conclude in a fair result.
I've never been a fan of his but I think he's more a party man than a conservative.
Yeah, Hewitt was an amnesty guy...
There is an urgent need to regularize the illegal population for a
variety of reasons, and to assure the flow of legal immigrants into the
country, a flow that has usually been welcomed and absorbed. The GOP
rejects the natavism of the extreme right, of course, and there are
compelling reasons to endorse guest worker programs and specialized
skill visas. There is also a widely-held belief in compassionate
treatment of the long resident illegal and their families. The e-mail
from one illegal, posted below, testifies to the extraordinary
complexity of the status of the millions who are watching and waiting
for this debate to conclude in a fair result.
I've never been a fan of his but I think he's more a party man than a conservative.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 05, 2009 06:59 PM (iTt2X)
710
Nah, it was a response to DrewM.
Yes, I know HH is a squishy and he has always supported Gun Grabbin Romney the Med Care Man.
When everyone but McCain, Romney, and Huckabee had dropped out I supported him as well, but it was the last choice. When McCain wound up getting it I had determined that I would vote third party until he nominated Palin and said he would only run for one term.
Yes, I know HH is a squishy and he has always supported Gun Grabbin Romney the Med Care Man.
When everyone but McCain, Romney, and Huckabee had dropped out I supported him as well, but it was the last choice. When McCain wound up getting it I had determined that I would vote third party until he nominated Palin and said he would only run for one term.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 07:00 PM (5ynkO)
711
But enough of this gay banter.
Anyone hear about Palin and/or Michael Jackson? It's like they've dropped off the face of the Earth or something.
Anyone hear about Palin and/or Michael Jackson? It's like they've dropped off the face of the Earth or something.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 07:04 PM (rZ235)
712
Vic-
At one point near the end of the debate just before the vote, I think he took the position that he was against it, but it would pass and he hated people calling it amnesty. I guess I shouldn't have called him a "twit", as he rather resembled a man-sized salted pretzel.
Vic-
At one point near the end of the debate just before the vote, I think he took the position that he was against it, but it would pass and he hated people calling it amnesty. I guess I shouldn't have called him a "twit", as he rather resembled a man-sized salted pretzel.
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 07:09 PM (0cY8h)
713
I went out and tried to find some of those old articles from 2005 and just couldnt do it. It may be that he has jumped on the amnesty bandwagon, but that sure doesnt match what I remember from 2005.
But, there has been a lot of water over the dam and a lot of alcohol over the tongue since then so my memory may be faulty.
But, there has been a lot of water over the dam and a lot of alcohol over the tongue since then so my memory may be faulty.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 07:11 PM (5ynkO)
714
If anything illustrates the utter depravity of our society today, it's the contrast between the exaltation of the sick freak Michael Jackson and the personal destruction and attempted hounding out of public life of Sarah Palin.
If anything illustrates the utter depravity of our society today, it's the contrast between the exaltation of the sick freak Michael Jackson and the personal destruction and attempted hounding out of public life of Sarah Palin.
Posted by: sartana at July 05, 2009 07:12 PM (0cY8h)
715
Does that not count because Rush is Rush or because Huck doesn't get protection?
If Rush did anything more than criticize a position that Huck had then he was wrong. I dont listen to Rushs show so I dont keep track of what he is doing.
I do think Huckabee is a big government liberal and he is the main reason that McCain got the nod through those sorry ass damn primary rules. Huck is also pro amnesty.
If Rush did anything more than criticize a position that Huck had then he was wrong. I dont listen to Rushs show so I dont keep track of what he is doing.
I do think Huckabee is a big government liberal and he is the main reason that McCain got the nod through those sorry ass damn primary rules. Huck is also pro amnesty.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 07:15 PM (5ynkO)
716
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 05, 2009 07:04 PM (rZ235)
OMG...I heard Michael Jackson died. is it true?
Seriously, I too left this thread a couple of hours ago only to come back and find it is still going strong. WTF, people? no life?
tink
OMG...I heard Michael Jackson died. is it true?
Seriously, I too left this thread a couple of hours ago only to come back and find it is still going strong. WTF, people? no life?
tink
Posted by: Tinkerbella at July 05, 2009 07:18 PM (pLs/O)
717
I did find this in 2006:
HH blasting McCain and Party elites after the 2006 elections.
Everything he said then was true, and even more so now. In fact, you could say this article was a virtual prediction of the 2008 disaster.
HH blasting McCain and Party elites after the 2006 elections.
Everything he said then was true, and even more so now. In fact, you could say this article was a virtual prediction of the 2008 disaster.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 07:22 PM (5ynkO)
718
We can disagree on whether or not Palin should not have resigned her office of Governor. We can agree that Sanford should not have cheated on his wife. But what we should not be doing is piling on the attack bus along with the Democrats.If you think resigning is a bad move, a simple one paragraph column that says Palin is resigning and this is not good would suffice.Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 02:27 AM (5ynkO)
How the hell is what Sanford did comparable to the Palin situation at all?!
How the hell is what Sanford did comparable to the Palin situation at all?!
Posted by: Watcher at July 05, 2009 07:25 PM (HW/FA)
Posted by: Tresjin at July 05, 2009 07:35 PM (MXOfg)
720
Ad rem-
I learned about Wavy Gravy when I began avidly studying the '6os pop culture back in high school. Guys like him were the best thing to come out of that wacky period. Guys like him and Kesey were only squishy Leftists- basically good-hearted back to nature freaks and non-conformists more concerned with tripping out and finding whatever truth they sought, than in any kink of hard-core anti-American political activism. I really wish more lefties would walk around in pot-bellies and clown suits- it'd make our job so much easier.
His Wikipedia page mentions that he was the official clown of the Grateful Dead- I always thought that was Jerry Garcia!
Ad rem-
I learned about Wavy Gravy when I began avidly studying the '6os pop culture back in high school. Guys like him were the best thing to come out of that wacky period. Guys like him and Kesey were only squishy Leftists- basically good-hearted back to nature freaks and non-conformists more concerned with tripping out and finding whatever truth they sought, than in any kink of hard-core anti-American political activism. I really wish more lefties would walk around in pot-bellies and clown suits- it'd make our job so much easier.
His Wikipedia page mentions that he was the official clown of the Grateful Dead- I always thought that was Jerry Garcia!
Posted by: saRtana-with an "R" at July 05, 2009 07:35 PM (0cY8h)
721
How the hell is what Sanford did comparable to the Palin situation at all?!
It was another case of conservatives eating our own after it happened.
It was another case of conservatives eating our own after it happened.
Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 07:38 PM (5ynkO)
722
550
I think it's going to be replayed later, it's worth watching to see how
this will play out. Keep in mind this is the touch football version,
since Huck doesn't want to alienate the Palin supporters.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I don't see Palin supporters swinging over to Huckabee. Somehow there's this idea circulating that Palin supporters are primarily interested in her as a social con, but I really don't think that's her core supporters.
I think it's going to be replayed later, it's worth watching to see how
this will play out. Keep in mind this is the touch football version,
since Huck doesn't want to alienate the Palin supporters.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I don't see Palin supporters swinging over to Huckabee. Somehow there's this idea circulating that Palin supporters are primarily interested in her as a social con, but I really don't think that's her core supporters.
Posted by: Y-not at July 05, 2009 07:42 PM (sey23)
723
Santana,
Hey I was in college in the 60's.....back them hippies were just about peace, love, and some good pot. It's all morphed into ugly stuff these days....just anger and a whole lot of dissonance. Hell, I read the guys wife is 44 and he's 77! It's got to be more than just the clown suit....;-)
Hey I was in college in the 60's.....back them hippies were just about peace, love, and some good pot. It's all morphed into ugly stuff these days....just anger and a whole lot of dissonance. Hell, I read the guys wife is 44 and he's 77! It's got to be more than just the clown suit....;-)
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 07:48 PM (d3dk0)
Posted by: Ad rem at July 05, 2009 07:50 PM (d3dk0)
725
It was another case of conservatives eating our own after it happened.Posted by: Vic at July 05, 2009 07:38 PM (5ynkO)
You don't think Sanford should be disowned by conservatives after secretly disappearing to Argentina to be with his mistress and then coming back to give a series of utterly pathetic press conferences that did nothing but make it 1000 times worse?
You don't think Sanford should be disowned by conservatives after secretly disappearing to Argentina to be with his mistress and then coming back to give a series of utterly pathetic press conferences that did nothing but make it 1000 times worse?
Posted by: Watcher at July 05, 2009 07:51 PM (HW/FA)
726
I liked the idea of Gov. Sarah Palin better than "cheerleader for worthless shitbag Congresscritters" Palin, AKA Caribou Barbie. She fucking blew it. Leave Ace alone.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at July 05, 2009 08:31 PM (OYasJ)
727
Newthread at the top of the page, if you don't want to have to scroll through 740+ comments to read what you just put up.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at July 05, 2009 09:08 PM (/MEFr)
728
I don't know if I can support Sarah for Prez for moral reasons. I was confronted with this moral dilema while closely examining her Runner's World pics for an extended period of time. The dilema: is morally permissableto jack off to the President of these United States of America? And since I'm in the Army would it be legal to jack off to my Commander in Chief? I know guys like Chris Mathews and Kieth Olberman alreadyjack offto Obama, but does that make it right?
Posted by: kenneth brown at July 06, 2009 12:55 PM (21mMD)
729
This kind of food fight is exactly why Sarah has quit elective politics. Good for her.
Posted by: Realist at July 06, 2009 01:31 PM (M3hG/)
730
Criticism is great when appropriately applied; for example, criticizing Palin for not being smart even though as Governor she managed to keep her state in the black while saying Romney is an economic wizard even though his economic policy has bankrupted his state is not appropriately applied criticism.
So please do lecture about criticism, however do make sure your criticisms are valid.
Lastly, this is my criticism of the criticizers, I am sick of the BS coming from NYC-Washington DC pussies. There is not much for the NE Quadrant to stand on these days, the track record is dismal and appalling so maybe it is time for NE Quadrant pussies to shut up and learn something.
A f**king Harvard degree is today worth less than the paper it is printed on..
So please do lecture about criticism, however do make sure your criticisms are valid.
Lastly, this is my criticism of the criticizers, I am sick of the BS coming from NYC-Washington DC pussies. There is not much for the NE Quadrant to stand on these days, the track record is dismal and appalling so maybe it is time for NE Quadrant pussies to shut up and learn something.
A f**king Harvard degree is today worth less than the paper it is printed on..
Posted by: syn at July 06, 2009 01:50 PM (7mgBe)
731
With the freakshow candidate lineup that the Pubbies have for the 2012 election against Obama, I think this would be a good time to get back in touch with Nature and buy lots of ammo.
Posted by: TexasJew at July 06, 2009 01:59 PM (hRtBd)
732
Hewitt thought Harriet Myers was a great SC pick.
Posted by: TexasJew at July 06, 2009 02:04 PM (hRtBd)
733
Ace, I support your viewpoint because I share it. I knew she was toast when my 65-year-old parents (who love Newt/Rush/Beck) told me they were appalled by her rambling speech and hoped she would just go away quietly. She has good qualities and good ideas, but that alone is not enough.
Posted by: Suzy at July 06, 2009 02:28 PM (WQTCL)
734
370
I am very weak-kneed. Tim Pawlenty is looking just about my speed right
now. Pawlenty/Don't Surprise Me would be a 2012 ticket I could really
really get enthusiastic about.
Yes, Pasty Pawlenty who diddled himself and let ACORN steal the senate seat for Franken. What a fighter! Oh and what charisma, maybe he can draw a few flies while standing in a pile of shit.
I'm pretty sure you were being sarcastic. If not, it doesn't take much to excite you
I am very weak-kneed. Tim Pawlenty is looking just about my speed right
now. Pawlenty/Don't Surprise Me would be a 2012 ticket I could really
really get enthusiastic about.
Yes, Pasty Pawlenty who diddled himself and let ACORN steal the senate seat for Franken. What a fighter! Oh and what charisma, maybe he can draw a few flies while standing in a pile of shit.
I'm pretty sure you were being sarcastic. If not, it doesn't take much to excite you
Posted by: kbdabear at July 06, 2009 02:45 PM (0Lv+U)
735
Take 2 months off......whiner.
Posted by: Jed 1899 at July 06, 2009 03:33 PM (5I0pu)
736
Why don't we all just wait and see what Palin actually does in the near future then take it from there.
On to important stuff. Is MJ really going to be buried without his brain?
On to important stuff. Is MJ really going to be buried without his brain?
Posted by: MrsPaulsFishSticks at July 06, 2009 04:51 PM (iYbLN)
737
Not sure how much I like Sarah, but as Dan Riehl said, she definitey has that celebrity thing going and in today's politics, thats half the battle. Look at the number of comments on this thread. Over at Hot Air, the Sarah threads have topped 10,000 comments over the weekend. I'm more of a Mitt fan, but unfortunately, he reminds me of Gore and Kerry with his lack of charisma and wooden image (although he's infinitely smarter), Sarah has that charisma, but she has to get it together on her knowledge of the issues. A ;ot can happen in 3 years, though.
Posted by: kenneth brown at July 06, 2009 05:38 PM (21mMD)
738
And if you do not believe that Sarah Palin has some double-secret probation plan for the presidency the war in Iraq was a good idea, you must hate her too America, and you're rooting against her the troops, and cheering for the other side. If you think I'm wrong, say so (like eman). I do not mind being called wrong. I do, however, greatly mind being called a traitor, of harboring a secret agenda I hide from you in order to advance the MSM's interests, etc., and all the rest of this insane bullshit. Suck it up, Ace.
Note to Palinophiles: I really, really hope Sarah Palin is the next Republican presidential candidate. It'll be like watching a lemur try to do algebra.
Note to Palinophiles: I really, really hope Sarah Palin is the next Republican presidential candidate. It'll be like watching a lemur try to do algebra.
Posted by: Twisted_Colour at July 06, 2009 06:59 PM (X7sCs)
739
iffen yer ain't with us yer aginst us, ah reckon
Posted by: Jim Bob at July 06, 2009 07:17 PM (3iZcW)
740
I'm a suburban pinko commie leftist and I am not afraid of Sarah Palin. I don't think she's a particularly lucid thinker, but she clearly strikes a powerful, visceralchord in a segment of the electorate.So bring her on and let's go for it.
Posted by: Ondine Breck at July 06, 2009 07:26 PM (3rldh)
741
Quote:
Sarah Palin needs to reach out to '08 candidates like Huckabee and
Romney in private. I thought the worst part of the Iowa Caucus was the
stupid battle between "Mormons and Evangelicals" centered around these
two candidates, and Sarah Palin needs to become allies with both of
them.
End quote.
You suggested Sarah Palin should ask you, Russ, for advice, and then right out of the bat you give the stupid advice of supporting faux conservatives?!!!!!!!
That's so typical of FAUX liberals such as Ace Associates in all their glory.
Sarah Palin needs to reach out to '08 candidates like Huckabee and
Romney in private. I thought the worst part of the Iowa Caucus was the
stupid battle between "Mormons and Evangelicals" centered around these
two candidates, and Sarah Palin needs to become allies with both of
them.
End quote.
You suggested Sarah Palin should ask you, Russ, for advice, and then right out of the bat you give the stupid advice of supporting faux conservatives?!!!!!!!
That's so typical of FAUX liberals such as Ace Associates in all their glory.
Posted by: Mad Dog at July 06, 2009 07:38 PM (KlcnD)
742
quote:
752
Hewitt thought Harriet Myers was a great SC pick.
Posted by: TexasJew at July 06, 2009 02:04 PM (hRtBd) End quote.That's because it benefited Mitt Romney.
752
Hewitt thought Harriet Myers was a great SC pick.
Posted by: TexasJew at July 06, 2009 02:04 PM (hRtBd) End quote.That's because it benefited Mitt Romney.
Posted by: Mad Dog at July 06, 2009 07:42 PM (KlcnD)
743
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Posted by: linda at July 06, 2009 08:33 PM (BJS1e)
744
All we can hope is that Obama quits soon because of all the unfair criticism laid against him from the conservative blogs.
Then we'll really be the cat's ass, won't we fellows. Won't we!
Then we'll really be the cat's ass, won't we fellows. Won't we!
Posted by: Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s at July 06, 2009 09:12 PM (/03Wt)
745
What has Palin done that warrants the presidency? She's not even qualified to be principal of a middle school. She cannot speak in coherent sentences. Her grammar is terrible. She wallows in self-pity. In other words, she's like so many on the right: proudly ignorant, tribal, and dangerously ungrounded in real-world policy. Why not go for the gold and push for Ann Coulter? She might be crazy but she is smart.
Posted by: walt at July 06, 2009 09:12 PM (z3A+N)
Posted by: Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s at July 06, 2009 09:16 PM (/03Wt)
747
You moonbats are truly batshit insane. Ace of whatever is kind of the craziest, most conversative dude alive. And now you're turning on him, because it's impossible for him to randomly agree with your insane theories.
Part of learning to be a grown-up is learning that not everyone will agree with you all the time. You guys can't handle that. For that, and for so many other reasons, you guys are truly, truly fucked. And the fact that you can't appreciate the fact that you're fucked is yet still more evidence... that you're truly fucked.
Part of learning to be a grown-up is learning that not everyone will agree with you all the time. You guys can't handle that. For that, and for so many other reasons, you guys are truly, truly fucked. And the fact that you can't appreciate the fact that you're fucked is yet still more evidence... that you're truly fucked.
Posted by: oliver at July 06, 2009 10:05 PM (0p9IG)
748
this is a thoughtful post but it does seem farfetched that she should be applauded for quitting the job she asked for and handing it to some guy who wasn't elected or hired.
She definitely gets ripped harder than other candidates have, but hasn't she made her family the focal point of her entire persona? She carted the family to every event and used Trig as a prop constantly (up at 11:30PM and after at the convention and at many events). If thats her platform, its open for scrutiny. You can't say "look at my kids, look at my kids! ... but dont dare talk about them!"
She definitely gets ripped harder than other candidates have, but hasn't she made her family the focal point of her entire persona? She carted the family to every event and used Trig as a prop constantly (up at 11:30PM and after at the convention and at many events). If thats her platform, its open for scrutiny. You can't say "look at my kids, look at my kids! ... but dont dare talk about them!"
Posted by: Bern at July 06, 2009 10:12 PM (3patZ)
749
Ace you are entitled to your own opinion, its a free country after all. But see how you like it when everyone comes gunning for you as you say. Not fun, huh? So cut the lady some slack. She connects with the American people because she is real and she is honest. Nicey nice Huckabee has gone MSM with his Fox gig and Romney is from Mars, no better than Hussein.
So when Al Franken is getting sworn in and Alec Baldwin is thinking of running for office lets just say its hard to stomach your parlimentery rules of discussion when we really need to stick together.
So when Al Franken is getting sworn in and Alec Baldwin is thinking of running for office lets just say its hard to stomach your parlimentery rules of discussion when we really need to stick together.
Posted by: Straight Arrow at July 06, 2009 10:48 PM (t6lDL)
750
Arrived here from the detested Andrew Sullivan site. I vote Democrat simply because the current GOP is both insupportable and unsupportable. Sarah Palin is a charismatic and attractive woman and a great votegetter but the problem is that she only attracts people like those who have responded to ACE's post not with reasoned arguments against the points he made but with wishful magical thinking that Palin will somehow become a credible candidate for the presidency. Charismatic and attractive she may be but she has none of the tools required for that job and the responsibilities that come with it, every time she opens her mouth she demonstrates this. It is not the "liberal media" that have fashioned this supposed campaign against her, she has done that herself. You people really need to get a grip, face reality, stop this internal squabbling, find a credible standard bearerand, most of all, stop blaming everybody else for the ills that your party has brought on itself.
Posted by: Disbelief at July 06, 2009 10:53 PM (S6+7G)
751
Look at how well Sarah Palin did even when John McCain's team was holding her back! She captured the imagination of the nation! When you have all of the dems and half of your own party fighting you, it a wonder she did as well as she did!
Next time she will have the support she needs all to herself! I can't wait! 2012 Here We Come!!!
Next time she will have the support she needs all to herself! I can't wait! 2012 Here We Come!!!
Posted by: Emmeline at July 06, 2009 10:55 PM (t6lDL)
752
HAHAHA. Keep it up GOP fucktards.
This is like watching a bunch of clownfish in a feeding frenzy.
This is like watching a bunch of clownfish in a feeding frenzy.
Posted by: DONTTAKETHATCRAP at July 06, 2009 11:19 PM (7c9uN)
753
Ace,
Go suck off your pal McCain you phoney. No true conservative would turn on the last best hope for AMERICA. F you traitor.
Go suck off your pal McCain you phoney. No true conservative would turn on the last best hope for AMERICA. F you traitor.
Posted by: Mark at July 06, 2009 11:19 PM (8KyxO)
754
LOL. Good luck you fake ass republican chumps. You're the ones that turned on Bush at the end and you WILL be defeated in 2012 when the Powerhouse Palin Train comes steaming across the country WOOHOO!!!
Posted by: Nick at July 07, 2009 12:08 AM (KCPtF)
755
Damn, when you guys eat your own you really don't go half-way, do you? Even Ace himself isn't immune to the Stalinist fun-times spawned by the same geniuses who brought you "Operation Leper" ... anyone who can convince themselves that quitting her job just when it was getting challenging (exactly like she conveniently quit her Ethics Commission gig as soon as the threat of actually going after GOP corruption came up) makes Palin into some kind of martyr or political chess-master needs to put down the crackpipe check into detox ... the GOP's best-known figurehead just committed political suicide, live on TeeVee, sounded like an excerpt from Finnegans Wake doing it to boot. Teh Palinista Posse better be careful what they wish for: if Obama could choose who to run against in 2012, I'm pretty sure he'd choose Sarah "I'll Get Back To You On That" Palin - Friday's speech from her would be the only campaign ad he'd need to win in a landslide.
*
Threatening to sue anything that moves is just the cherry on the Batshit-Insane Sundae ... yeah, someone already rapidly going broke over her existing legal bills is just DYING to drop a load of writs on the likes of HuffPo MSNBC, you betcha!
*
She didn't quit because of any "higher calling" than the "calling" of the higher pay-scale available on the cocktail-circuit. It's always been all about Sarahcuda right from Day One, the idea of either being stomped in another election or quietly fading into obscurity gave her the bug-willies ... so she's off on her magical adventure to save the Republican Party by destroying it, coincidentally making herself a fortune in the process. I just hope the GOP really really LOVES monorails. When she's done she'll just say she was "misunderstood" or that the patient was too far gone to revive - it's not like she gives a damn as long as the checks clear. The Snowbilly Grifter knows she'll never REALLY go broke - not as long as there are still enough rubes out there who refuse to see what a con-artist she is will continue to fall for her phony Marge Gunderson patois winking homespun bullshit - hell, it's already got her a million-dollar book-deal enough notoreity to make sweet money on for years to come.
*
"This is fucking insane and it must stop. I will not be bullied by this
ludicrous magical thinking brigade who insists that only Nice and
Positive Words must be uttered or else one is contributing one's Evil
Energy to the Wrong Side."
*
Putting the lid back on the can of worms after you open it - not so easy, actually.
*
Threatening to sue anything that moves is just the cherry on the Batshit-Insane Sundae ... yeah, someone already rapidly going broke over her existing legal bills is just DYING to drop a load of writs on the likes of HuffPo MSNBC, you betcha!
*
She didn't quit because of any "higher calling" than the "calling" of the higher pay-scale available on the cocktail-circuit. It's always been all about Sarahcuda right from Day One, the idea of either being stomped in another election or quietly fading into obscurity gave her the bug-willies ... so she's off on her magical adventure to save the Republican Party by destroying it, coincidentally making herself a fortune in the process. I just hope the GOP really really LOVES monorails. When she's done she'll just say she was "misunderstood" or that the patient was too far gone to revive - it's not like she gives a damn as long as the checks clear. The Snowbilly Grifter knows she'll never REALLY go broke - not as long as there are still enough rubes out there who refuse to see what a con-artist she is will continue to fall for her phony Marge Gunderson patois winking homespun bullshit - hell, it's already got her a million-dollar book-deal enough notoreity to make sweet money on for years to come.
*
"This is fucking insane and it must stop. I will not be bullied by this
ludicrous magical thinking brigade who insists that only Nice and
Positive Words must be uttered or else one is contributing one's Evil
Energy to the Wrong Side."
*
Putting the lid back on the can of worms after you open it - not so easy, actually.
Posted by: jim at July 07, 2009 01:21 AM (dk+J9)
756
Really really wanting it to be so does not make Palin the new Nixon. We get it: frustrated right-wingers want a One of their own. But just because she's got that Massengill Fresh spokesmodel look doesn't mean Yahweh chose her. The self-delusion in these comments is astounding.
Posted by: bobsmith at July 07, 2009 01:24 AM (66Lnp)
757
Andrew 'MilkyLoads' Sullivan once again twists someone's statement into his own little perverted fantasy. Quite literally "By their fruits we shall know them". To deliberately engage in HIV+ anonymous barebacking (aka 'AIDS gifting', 'bug chasing') is a truly insane and almost murderous act.
Posted by: Keith at July 07, 2009 01:25 AM (rND0R)
758
Lastly, this is my criticism of the criticizers, I am sick of the BS coming from NYC-Washington DC pussies.
Yeah, Syn. You're the ones whining 12 year old girls, but we're the pussies.
Call me when you get you're first training bras you little cooze.
Yeah, Syn. You're the ones whining 12 year old girls, but we're the pussies.
Call me when you get you're first training bras you little cooze.
Posted by: libarbarian at July 07, 2009 01:38 AM (wQOq5)
759
OK, let's play the Just Like Nixon game. Palin is just like Nixon, except
that before being elected in 68 he served two terms as VP, quitting neither of them in the middle.
And she's just like Nixon, except that he had real foreign policy
experience in the Senate--another position he didn't randomly quit--that amounted to more than living near the perpetually frozen,
irrelevant part of Russia (uh-oh, here's Putin's head!)
And she's just like Nixon, except that he was a sharp legal mind who
went to Duke Law School; she studied ESPN at the Idaho School of
Broadcasting.
Quitting a job that's defined by loyalty and trust in order to pursue the only such job of a higher rank is not a winning, or even rational, formula.
that before being elected in 68 he served two terms as VP, quitting neither of them in the middle.
And she's just like Nixon, except that he had real foreign policy
experience in the Senate--another position he didn't randomly quit--that amounted to more than living near the perpetually frozen,
irrelevant part of Russia (uh-oh, here's Putin's head!)
And she's just like Nixon, except that he was a sharp legal mind who
went to Duke Law School; she studied ESPN at the Idaho School of
Broadcasting.
Quitting a job that's defined by loyalty and trust in order to pursue the only such job of a higher rank is not a winning, or even rational, formula.
Posted by: bobsmith at July 07, 2009 01:40 AM (66Lnp)
760
Now Conservatives are the whining little pussies who are always complaining about how mean the "librul medeeah" is.
Boo-Hoo. Cry me a river you little pansys.
Now Conservatives are the whining little pussies who are always complaining about how mean the "librul medeeah" is.
Boo-Hoo. Cry me a river you little pansys.
Posted by: libarbarian at July 07, 2009 01:41 AM (wQOq5)
761
I don't understand what all the noise is about here. Even if someone doesn't agree with what was written, it is no cause for an all out flame war. Points to be considered:
1) Moonbats act this way, not civilized people who respect the rights of others to disagree and voice their opinions. We go on and on at length about how the left censures our right to free speech, and then we censure each other? This is not only self-destructive, but playing directly into the hands of our opposition. Which brings me to my next point...
2) The left needs us to fracture and fight amongst themselves, now more than ever. Their facade of 'fighting for the little man' is quickly crumbling as they ram assinine policy after assinine policy down our throats. Their supporters are turning away, and seeking leadership. If we cannot show them solidarity amongst ourselves and the leadership they seek, they will stay away in droves. We need to present them with the essence of ourselves, the respect, tolerance, and grace inherent in our values.
3) We must extend the hand of brotherhood to those who have lost faith in their 'messiah', the ones intelligent enough to feel the water getting hotter and starting to boil. They are looking for a way out of the pot, and we must lend them a hand.
Now is not the time for radical and vociferous infighting in the public view. If we are to survive the next three years, we must do it together, whether or not we see the particular fitness of any given Republican candidate.
I may not agree with what you say, sir, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
-Patrick M.
'We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.'
-George Orwell (1903-1950)
Two roads diverged in a wood and I - I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.
-Robert Frost (1874-1963)
1) Moonbats act this way, not civilized people who respect the rights of others to disagree and voice their opinions. We go on and on at length about how the left censures our right to free speech, and then we censure each other? This is not only self-destructive, but playing directly into the hands of our opposition. Which brings me to my next point...
2) The left needs us to fracture and fight amongst themselves, now more than ever. Their facade of 'fighting for the little man' is quickly crumbling as they ram assinine policy after assinine policy down our throats. Their supporters are turning away, and seeking leadership. If we cannot show them solidarity amongst ourselves and the leadership they seek, they will stay away in droves. We need to present them with the essence of ourselves, the respect, tolerance, and grace inherent in our values.
3) We must extend the hand of brotherhood to those who have lost faith in their 'messiah', the ones intelligent enough to feel the water getting hotter and starting to boil. They are looking for a way out of the pot, and we must lend them a hand.
Now is not the time for radical and vociferous infighting in the public view. If we are to survive the next three years, we must do it together, whether or not we see the particular fitness of any given Republican candidate.
I may not agree with what you say, sir, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
-Patrick M.
'We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.'
-George Orwell (1903-1950)
Two roads diverged in a wood and I - I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.
-Robert Frost (1874-1963)
Posted by: Patrick M. at July 07, 2009 01:53 AM (aQfgK)
762
Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or
small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour
and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently
overwhelming might of the enemy.--Sir Winston ChurchillSorry to say it, but Palin is DONE with any elected office. She can't win. In these perilous times we need leaders who lead, not those who cut and run.
small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour
and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently
overwhelming might of the enemy.--Sir Winston ChurchillSorry to say it, but Palin is DONE with any elected office. She can't win. In these perilous times we need leaders who lead, not those who cut and run.
Posted by: red hawk at July 07, 2009 02:54 AM (iIXah)
763
Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or
small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour
and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently
overwhelming might of the enemy.
--Sir Winston Churchill
Sorry to say it, but Palin is DONE with any elected office. She can't win. In these perilous times we need leaders who lead, not those who cut and run.
small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour
and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently
overwhelming might of the enemy.
--Sir Winston Churchill
Sorry to say it, but Palin is DONE with any elected office. She can't win. In these perilous times we need leaders who lead, not those who cut and run.
Posted by: red hawk at July 07, 2009 02:56 AM (iIXah)
764
@362 "A bag of rocks is smarter and infinately more honest than Obama or any of his ilk."
LOL, Africanus, you are calling the President dumb and two words later you mis-spell "infinitely"? Sorry bud, that's laughable given the context.
@367 "I know you're determined to focus only the most negative possible
translation of what she said... but how about when she said, she
chooses to fight? How about her basketball analogy? She knows by
taking herself off of that playing field she ensures the victory for
her plans for Alaska...or at least does her best to cement success."
Mary Beth: If one quits something, it is not strange to call them a
quitter. And about that "basketball analogy"? Fine and dandy,
excepting for the fact that it's an analogy, and thus an abstraction from the thing being described. And
in the analogy breaks down. Politics is perhaps like basketball in
some ways, but in more ways it is not. She is passing the ball to whom, so
to speak?
@369 "Quitting a job does not make you a 'quitter'."
Wow, eman...I mean, um, yes it does. At least of that paticular thing
you quit. Perhaps if one quits a thing to attempt another, perhaps
greater thing, one might be a quitter in the smaller sense but not the
global one. But insofar as far as United States state governors go, she
is a quitter. Your point might make more sense if she had said "I am
resigning to pursue [insert greater, more important thing here]." But
she did not say this.
@376 "One thing I do know is that Sarah Palin never called me names..."
But she did me, by implying in several of her stump speeches that I'm
not a 'real American' or somesuch foolishness, though I am from the
goddamned South, was raised in the church and have an honest difference
of opinion about how the country should be run. It also doesn't escape
my attention the number of times "the enemy" has been thrown around in
this comment thread to characterize those with whom various commenters disagree.
@378 "Why, I'll bet you two paychecks that even though she isn't going
to be in public office in a few weeks and even if she declares no
intention whatsoever to run for any public office, the nasty attacks
continue nonstop."
Why Dave in Texas, I'll wager four (easy, given the meagerness of my
wages during economic this downturn) that you are correct if the
following condition is met: that Mrs. Palin continues to be a public political figure. It simply goes with the
territory, being pilloried if one aspires to statewide or nation
office. And those of you who lament that things used to be different,
i.e., the press (left or right) took a more diffident approach to
things. C'est la vie. We used to ride horses for transportation, bleed
people as a medical practice, burn witches, etc. That was then, this is
now. The world changes. Deal with it.
@387 "Seven years after 9/11 an empty-suit academic with a shady past,
close ties to anti-American leftist terrorists, the middle name
Hussein, and no executive or private sector experience was elected
president of the the United States.
And we should disqualify a person for resigning a governorship while not under a cloud of scandal?"
Unicle tweets: Wha? Where I come from when you commit to a task - and let's be clear, in running
for and winning election to governor, one is most certainly making at
least an implied commitment - and fail to follow through with said
commitment, that is a mark against your character. Spin it any way that suits your fancy however.
@391 "the Democrats make the rules..."
Uncle Hussein tweets: So you are saying by implication that the
Republicans are weak? I would dispute this, but if that's your stated
position...
Drew M: Salient points all around. Kudos.
Ace: I don't agree with you on much of anything and yet your position
on this makes a fair bit of sense to me. Welcome to the other side of
the fence I guess. Though you're still on the other side from me and my nasty
<I>ilk</I>. Hell, in the last few years I had come to believe
there was zero space between the fencelines. Maybe I'm wrong about this.
Now, I've got me some Merle Travis to jam on whilst ya'll mules continue fighting over this particular turnip. Fate and time will demonstrate who's right far more than arguing with the choir in the comment section of a blog.
LOL, Africanus, you are calling the President dumb and two words later you mis-spell "infinitely"? Sorry bud, that's laughable given the context.
@367 "I know you're determined to focus only the most negative possible
translation of what she said... but how about when she said, she
chooses to fight? How about her basketball analogy? She knows by
taking herself off of that playing field she ensures the victory for
her plans for Alaska...or at least does her best to cement success."
Mary Beth: If one quits something, it is not strange to call them a
quitter. And about that "basketball analogy"? Fine and dandy,
excepting for the fact that it's an analogy, and thus an abstraction from the thing being described. And
in the analogy breaks down. Politics is perhaps like basketball in
some ways, but in more ways it is not. She is passing the ball to whom, so
to speak?
@369 "Quitting a job does not make you a 'quitter'."
Wow, eman...I mean, um, yes it does. At least of that paticular thing
you quit. Perhaps if one quits a thing to attempt another, perhaps
greater thing, one might be a quitter in the smaller sense but not the
global one. But insofar as far as United States state governors go, she
is a quitter. Your point might make more sense if she had said "I am
resigning to pursue [insert greater, more important thing here]." But
she did not say this.
@376 "One thing I do know is that Sarah Palin never called me names..."
But she did me, by implying in several of her stump speeches that I'm
not a 'real American' or somesuch foolishness, though I am from the
goddamned South, was raised in the church and have an honest difference
of opinion about how the country should be run. It also doesn't escape
my attention the number of times "the enemy" has been thrown around in
this comment thread to characterize those with whom various commenters disagree.
@378 "Why, I'll bet you two paychecks that even though she isn't going
to be in public office in a few weeks and even if she declares no
intention whatsoever to run for any public office, the nasty attacks
continue nonstop."
Why Dave in Texas, I'll wager four (easy, given the meagerness of my
wages during economic this downturn) that you are correct if the
following condition is met: that Mrs. Palin continues to be a public political figure. It simply goes with the
territory, being pilloried if one aspires to statewide or nation
office. And those of you who lament that things used to be different,
i.e., the press (left or right) took a more diffident approach to
things. C'est la vie. We used to ride horses for transportation, bleed
people as a medical practice, burn witches, etc. That was then, this is
now. The world changes. Deal with it.
@387 "Seven years after 9/11 an empty-suit academic with a shady past,
close ties to anti-American leftist terrorists, the middle name
Hussein, and no executive or private sector experience was elected
president of the the United States.
And we should disqualify a person for resigning a governorship while not under a cloud of scandal?"
Unicle tweets: Wha? Where I come from when you commit to a task - and let's be clear, in running
for and winning election to governor, one is most certainly making at
least an implied commitment - and fail to follow through with said
commitment, that is a mark against your character. Spin it any way that suits your fancy however.
@391 "the Democrats make the rules..."
Uncle Hussein tweets: So you are saying by implication that the
Republicans are weak? I would dispute this, but if that's your stated
position...
Drew M: Salient points all around. Kudos.
Ace: I don't agree with you on much of anything and yet your position
on this makes a fair bit of sense to me. Welcome to the other side of
the fence I guess. Though you're still on the other side from me and my nasty
<I>ilk</I>. Hell, in the last few years I had come to believe
there was zero space between the fencelines. Maybe I'm wrong about this.
Now, I've got me some Merle Travis to jam on whilst ya'll mules continue fighting over this particular turnip. Fate and time will demonstrate who's right far more than arguing with the choir in the comment section of a blog.
Posted by: worn at July 07, 2009 02:58 AM (9bWqj)
765
The real problem with Palin - in addition to being a wimpy quitter - is her chronic hypocrisy. It's stupefying.
Take for example the Ethics Complaints she complains about. Sarah Palin actually filed one against... Sarah Palin! That's right, against her very self. Nuts.
Take for example the Ethics Complaints she complains about. Sarah Palin actually filed one against... Sarah Palin! That's right, against her very self. Nuts.
Posted by: queeg at July 07, 2009 04:31 AM (iIXah)
766
@785...well done Worn. I suspect it is like howling into the wind but all the same well done. It'll be a long time before the kool aid wears off on most here, if ever, though maybe it wasn't kool aid she was selling but snake oil. They cry about Obama's empty suit but point to one position paper she has put out on foreign affairs or domestic issues, one speech where she staked out her platform, anything that other than some bumper sticker slogans that would convince an independent that she had any grasp of even being vice president, let alone president. She's done little to nothing to improve her standing to the centrist which pretty much sway national elections in our current political environment. She might be wildly popular with half of the 30% who still identify as being GOPers but last I checked 15% of the national vote isn't getting you inside 1600 P. Ave.
Nope, she's just a snowbilly grifter whose run a nice con up to now but her time has passed, probably got her hand caught in the cookie jar, a bit on the otherside of the cuckoo's nest and as much as she complains about the media she's loving being in front of the cameras.
Palin might find a position as a pseudo king maker, helping soc conservative candidates here and there, maybe even something at the RNC but my suspicion is she's looking to do some sort of entertainment thing based on her Christianist snowbilly views. A up north down home version of Oprah or something. And we all know a six figure book deal is coming. But she's not running for President.
And quit the Nixon comparisons, he was a distinguished Duke Law graduate, a rising star in the GOP, had been a Congressman and Senator before leaving the Senate to run as Eisenhower's VP, served two terms as VP, ran for President and Gov. of California (defeated both times) before becoming President. She's grossly undereducated, intellectually uncurious and inexperienced in leadership and quitting to do...what? Nothing as far as we know.
Nope, she's just a snowbilly grifter whose run a nice con up to now but her time has passed, probably got her hand caught in the cookie jar, a bit on the otherside of the cuckoo's nest and as much as she complains about the media she's loving being in front of the cameras.
Palin might find a position as a pseudo king maker, helping soc conservative candidates here and there, maybe even something at the RNC but my suspicion is she's looking to do some sort of entertainment thing based on her Christianist snowbilly views. A up north down home version of Oprah or something. And we all know a six figure book deal is coming. But she's not running for President.
And quit the Nixon comparisons, he was a distinguished Duke Law graduate, a rising star in the GOP, had been a Congressman and Senator before leaving the Senate to run as Eisenhower's VP, served two terms as VP, ran for President and Gov. of California (defeated both times) before becoming President. She's grossly undereducated, intellectually uncurious and inexperienced in leadership and quitting to do...what? Nothing as far as we know.
Posted by: RIRedinPA at July 07, 2009 06:38 AM (vjD/i)
767
Palin deserved the attacks, even the ones against her family. She was just another sanctimonious rightwing tard. Don't you people get it? We don't play by your rules, and neither does the media or the rest of the world. I guess it's OK for rightwing tards to wax righteous and spout off about values, and then royally fuck something up in their own life, because hey, everyone is human and everyone makes a mistake. But in the rest of the world - where a vast majority of the voting public lives - when you're a sanctimonious and self righteous ass and you fuck something up there's absolutely no mercy. So when some snowbilly hick comes down to the lower 48 and lectures folks about taking money from the govt (AK leads the way here) it doesn't look good. And when the same snowbilly hick lectures folks about how much better the "real America" is, meaning of course the parts of America where ignorant white trash have unwed pregnancies, sky high divorce rates, shitty jobs, and meth issues (hello, Wasilla) the rest of us scratch our heads and then say "fuck her! We're the ones who've been carrying rural America's slack for the past 50 years." And then we laugh her ass out of existence. Because the hypocrisy is staggering. That shit might play with the woefully ignorant Jesus freaks out there, but not with anyone else. Find a better spokesperson. Palin is done! Another one bites the dust! (Ensign, Sanford, Palin - they go in threes!)
Posted by: Bob at July 07, 2009 08:40 AM (2Cqr9)
768
It's funny how much the real tough guys on the right love to play the victim, despite supposedly being the daddy party. Ive got no sympathy for Palin. She brought whatever criticism she "endured" on herself.
Gosh darn it, its so unfair that I cant call Democrats terrorist-loving, godless traitors and not have to have my own record scrutinized! Gee whiz! Its so unfair that I cant hide behind my children every time a little criticism comes my way and not have them become part of the story! Politics is just all about personal destruction. Waaaaahhhhh!!! : (
Gosh darn it, its so unfair that I cant call Democrats terrorist-loving, godless traitors and not have to have my own record scrutinized! Gee whiz! Its so unfair that I cant hide behind my children every time a little criticism comes my way and not have them become part of the story! Politics is just all about personal destruction. Waaaaahhhhh!!! : (
Posted by: SpaceCat75 at July 07, 2009 08:54 AM (1GrAu)
769
Not sure where the conventional wisdom that her family is under attack unfairly is coming from. As far as I can tell, it amounts to one tasteless joke made by a late night comedian. I wouldn't call the HuffPo MSM, unless this site is also considered MSM. The MSMhave reported on her daughter's pregnancy (as they would if one of Obama's daughters got pregnant) , but for the most part the coverage has not been mean spirited in the MSM. Maybe the commentors at DailyKos have been rough, but,again,they don't qualify as MSM. If someone has links to correct this impression from MSM (not liberal blogs) I'll be happy to be corrected.
As far as attacks on politicians' families go, maybe someone should have made that point about kids being off limits to El Rushbo prior to him making tasteless jokes about Chelsea. Two wrongs don't make a right but it's fair to say that the Right was first on the scene in criticising the opposition's family, so there's a little of the pot calling the kettle black going on here.
I think Ace is telling you all something you need to hear. Palin's decision was fatal to any Presidential aspirations she has - anything said to the contrary is pure partisan fantasy. It's not like Alaska is full of raving liberals - it's still one of the most conservative States in the Nation. If she can't take the heat there, there is no way she'll be trusted by mainstream America to serve a full term as POTUS. Not everyone who says bad things about a conservative candidate's prospects is against the party. Wishingsomething were so doesn't make it so, and not every move a candidate makes is a masterstroke just because it is spun that way. She quit in the face of adversity - no presidential aspirant is allowed to do that, because adversity comes with the job.
As far as attacks on politicians' families go, maybe someone should have made that point about kids being off limits to El Rushbo prior to him making tasteless jokes about Chelsea. Two wrongs don't make a right but it's fair to say that the Right was first on the scene in criticising the opposition's family, so there's a little of the pot calling the kettle black going on here.
I think Ace is telling you all something you need to hear. Palin's decision was fatal to any Presidential aspirations she has - anything said to the contrary is pure partisan fantasy. It's not like Alaska is full of raving liberals - it's still one of the most conservative States in the Nation. If she can't take the heat there, there is no way she'll be trusted by mainstream America to serve a full term as POTUS. Not everyone who says bad things about a conservative candidate's prospects is against the party. Wishingsomething were so doesn't make it so, and not every move a candidate makes is a masterstroke just because it is spun that way. She quit in the face of adversity - no presidential aspirant is allowed to do that, because adversity comes with the job.
Posted by: Mark at July 07, 2009 09:05 AM (pSYWf)
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What would Palin do if something really bad was happening or maybe several things at once?
I mean come on, she gets these Ethics Complaints from pick-up driving
Alaska hillbilly's who don't even use attorneys and she freaks out and
quits? Please.
How the hell is she supposed to handle al Qaeda, the Taliban, North
Korea, Iran, the economy, socialism, communism, high taxes, the
Democratic-majority Senate, the Democratic-majority House, etc. - all at the same time.
Hell, she can't even keep her teenage kids from popping out kids. Good leadership begins in the home - that should have been our first sign that something was not right.
I mean come on, she gets these Ethics Complaints from pick-up driving
Alaska hillbilly's who don't even use attorneys and she freaks out and
quits? Please.
How the hell is she supposed to handle al Qaeda, the Taliban, North
Korea, Iran, the economy, socialism, communism, high taxes, the
Democratic-majority Senate, the Democratic-majority House, etc. - all at the same time.
Hell, she can't even keep her teenage kids from popping out kids. Good leadership begins in the home - that should have been our first sign that something was not right.
Posted by: red hawk at July 07, 2009 11:09 AM (iIXah)
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Ace, liberals everywhere thank you for writing this passage:
"I disagree with you. I have tried to do so pleasantly but I am tired of
the imputation of bad motive simply because I am more realistic and
less prone to flights of hopeful fancy than you.
If you think I'm wrong, say so (like eman). I do not mind being
called wrong. I do, however, greatly mind being called a traitor, of
harboring a secret agenda I hide from you in order to advance the MSM's
interests, etc., and all the rest of this insane bullshit.
Someone can be wrong HONESTLY, without the need of claiming he's
wrong dishonestly, wrong because he's actively intending to subvert the
cause (so he can of course get invited to these famous DC dinner
parties, etc.)
"
Now you know how it feels.
"I disagree with you. I have tried to do so pleasantly but I am tired of
the imputation of bad motive simply because I am more realistic and
less prone to flights of hopeful fancy than you.
If you think I'm wrong, say so (like eman). I do not mind being
called wrong. I do, however, greatly mind being called a traitor, of
harboring a secret agenda I hide from you in order to advance the MSM's
interests, etc., and all the rest of this insane bullshit.
Someone can be wrong HONESTLY, without the need of claiming he's
wrong dishonestly, wrong because he's actively intending to subvert the
cause (so he can of course get invited to these famous DC dinner
parties, etc.)
"
Now you know how it feels.
Posted by: Herb at July 08, 2009 11:50 AM (zdpq+)
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Sarah Palin is one of the dumbest, laziest, looniest losers to ever emerge in the GOP. She is a snowbilly diva, unable to ever finish ANYTHING she ever starts.
Have you forgotten she attended five colleges in four years, earning a degree in journalism? Hard to believe someone so completely unable to speak coherently ever studied journalism.
She quit as mayor of Wasilla before her term was out, leaving behind millions in debt for her successor, after overspending wildly on a sports center. This includes $1.2 million in leagal fees because the snowbilly diva began construction without having obtained all parcels of land needed.
She quit in her first term on the oil and petroleum board.
She quit in her first term as governor.
Boy, howdy. That is some kind of great and inspirational leadership. Sarah Palin couldn't organize a one-car parade, and you folks see her as a potential president?What? Isn't Heidi Montag or Jessica Simpson available?
Palin is poison to the Republican Party, but even more toxic to thenation asa whole. Let this empty-head rake in her millions, but please, quit pretending she is some kind of political powerhouse.
Have you forgotten she attended five colleges in four years, earning a degree in journalism? Hard to believe someone so completely unable to speak coherently ever studied journalism.
She quit as mayor of Wasilla before her term was out, leaving behind millions in debt for her successor, after overspending wildly on a sports center. This includes $1.2 million in leagal fees because the snowbilly diva began construction without having obtained all parcels of land needed.
She quit in her first term on the oil and petroleum board.
She quit in her first term as governor.
Boy, howdy. That is some kind of great and inspirational leadership. Sarah Palin couldn't organize a one-car parade, and you folks see her as a potential president?What? Isn't Heidi Montag or Jessica Simpson available?
Palin is poison to the Republican Party, but even more toxic to thenation asa whole. Let this empty-head rake in her millions, but please, quit pretending she is some kind of political powerhouse.
Posted by: Bordo at July 14, 2009 04:10 PM (SBsLd)
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Hi,
Liberal here -- got an honest question for you all.
Honestly, why her? What is it about her? Especially considering your other options, such as....
I can see Gingrich -- he's smart, conservative, and knows government inside and out. He's a good, persuasive, effective speaker. He could lure centrists with a message of strength abroad and budget cutting at home. He'd have handled Katrina and 9/11 far better than GWB did. In a crisis, even my liberal co-conspirators and I agree that Gingrich would probably be a good commander in chief. The same can't be said for Sarah, not by a long shot.
As we eat our brie and sip our chablis, we also grudgingly admit that Romney could be the socially moderate economic leader/deficit hawk that finds his way to 51 percent in a time of lingering recession and mounting debt. In a country that's less worried about the flamboyant guy in apartment 3B than about the trillion dollar deficit, he could win. Add in a serious leadership background (Massachusetts big, Wasilla puny), and Mitt should be miles ahead of Palin.
Sanford and Ensign are off your list for now, but even so, my point is this: The GOP has a solid bench. Why go with this lightweight who will absolutely blow it down the stretch? Is the nostalgic-for-simple-white-days thing that much like crack to you all?
Help us out, seriously; Palin plainly doesn't know much about government, and she's totally lost
when it comes to policy. Politics clearly wounds her -- she's too sensitive. The ethics complaints indicate either that she's genuinely unethical or that she's so bad at politics that she's inspired open hatred from a normally docile legislature full of part-timers who only meet a few weeks a year. The family values thing took a hit with Bristol and Levi.
And do you really see her running a solid campaign? The last campaign
was marked infighting in just days after it began. And in a crisis? Put yourself in the room at
the moment someone says "Madame President, we have a BIG problem."
She'd be so lost that her (unelected) staff would be doing the actual
leadership.
I was hoping that Carter and GWB would show both parties that doing the job badly kills a party's chances in the future. Palin will set you back by her simple unpreparedness.
Enlighten me. Why her? Why in the world? To me she's obviously just fool's gold for types who wish the world was a cross between Bonanza and the Donna Reed show. But then I never figured we'd actually believe that yarn about Iraq and WMD or al qaeda.
Liberal here -- got an honest question for you all.
Honestly, why her? What is it about her? Especially considering your other options, such as....
I can see Gingrich -- he's smart, conservative, and knows government inside and out. He's a good, persuasive, effective speaker. He could lure centrists with a message of strength abroad and budget cutting at home. He'd have handled Katrina and 9/11 far better than GWB did. In a crisis, even my liberal co-conspirators and I agree that Gingrich would probably be a good commander in chief. The same can't be said for Sarah, not by a long shot.
As we eat our brie and sip our chablis, we also grudgingly admit that Romney could be the socially moderate economic leader/deficit hawk that finds his way to 51 percent in a time of lingering recession and mounting debt. In a country that's less worried about the flamboyant guy in apartment 3B than about the trillion dollar deficit, he could win. Add in a serious leadership background (Massachusetts big, Wasilla puny), and Mitt should be miles ahead of Palin.
Sanford and Ensign are off your list for now, but even so, my point is this: The GOP has a solid bench. Why go with this lightweight who will absolutely blow it down the stretch? Is the nostalgic-for-simple-white-days thing that much like crack to you all?
Help us out, seriously; Palin plainly doesn't know much about government, and she's totally lost
when it comes to policy. Politics clearly wounds her -- she's too sensitive. The ethics complaints indicate either that she's genuinely unethical or that she's so bad at politics that she's inspired open hatred from a normally docile legislature full of part-timers who only meet a few weeks a year. The family values thing took a hit with Bristol and Levi.
And do you really see her running a solid campaign? The last campaign
was marked infighting in just days after it began. And in a crisis? Put yourself in the room at
the moment someone says "Madame President, we have a BIG problem."
She'd be so lost that her (unelected) staff would be doing the actual
leadership.
I was hoping that Carter and GWB would show both parties that doing the job badly kills a party's chances in the future. Palin will set you back by her simple unpreparedness.
Enlighten me. Why her? Why in the world? To me she's obviously just fool's gold for types who wish the world was a cross between Bonanza and the Donna Reed show. But then I never figured we'd actually believe that yarn about Iraq and WMD or al qaeda.
Posted by: Scotty at July 14, 2009 04:15 PM (jkZsA)
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Scotty,
You have to understand one of the overriding mantras on the furthest fringes of Wingnutistan is pissing off liberals. You can be an underachieving beauty queen wih a Valley Girl accent and a head full of mush, but if you upset the other side, you're a great leader.
She has as much business representing the Republicans as Michael Moore does Democrats. But he's just a (bad) filmmaker. She's a ridsing GOP star. Go figure.
You have to understand one of the overriding mantras on the furthest fringes of Wingnutistan is pissing off liberals. You can be an underachieving beauty queen wih a Valley Girl accent and a head full of mush, but if you upset the other side, you're a great leader.
She has as much business representing the Republicans as Michael Moore does Democrats. But he's just a (bad) filmmaker. She's a ridsing GOP star. Go figure.
Posted by: Bordo at July 14, 2009 04:49 PM (SBsLd)
775
she will be rightly seen as "cashing in" on her fame.
How else is she supposed to pay $500,000.00 in legal bills? That's the whole reason she quit--so she could clear her debts before her market cools.
How else is she supposed to pay $500,000.00 in legal bills? That's the whole reason she quit--so she could clear her debts before her market cools.
Posted by: Archer at July 14, 2009 08:16 PM (/HnYx)
776
"and Churchill was washed up until that Hitler chap came "
By 1939, Winston Churchell had been:
commander of the Henley Squadron of the Queen's Own Oxfordshire HussarsPresident of the Board of TradeHome SecretaryFirst Lord of the AdmiraltyMinister of MunitionsSecretary of State for WarSecretary of State for AirChancellor of the Exchequera noted war correspondentan accomplished Impressionist painterauthor andhistorian
To steal a quote; Senator, I knew Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill was a friend of mine. Senator, Sarah Palin is noWinston Leonard Spencer Churchill.
P.
By 1939, Winston Churchell had been:
commander of the Henley Squadron of the Queen's Own Oxfordshire HussarsPresident of the Board of TradeHome SecretaryFirst Lord of the AdmiraltyMinister of MunitionsSecretary of State for WarSecretary of State for AirChancellor of the Exchequera noted war correspondentan accomplished Impressionist painterauthor andhistorian
To steal a quote; Senator, I knew Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill was a friend of mine. Senator, Sarah Palin is noWinston Leonard Spencer Churchill.
P.
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@Andrea #344:"But I disagree that presidents have to take this sort of thing. It's never been this bad -- not against their young kids anyway. It used to be that the sons and daughters of political figures were tacitly agreed to be "off limits" until they became adults, and sometimes even then, because FFS, it's not like they were to blame for their parents' career decisions. "Really? Like when that stalwart and upstanding Rush Limbaugh told everyone on his TV show about the new dog Clinton had in the White House, and then, instead of showing his chocolate labrador, he showed a picture of Chelsea? Is that the sort of mature attitude to which you refer? We can always count on Republicans to serve a fine glass of whine!
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