Support




Contact
Ace:
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd at cutjibnewsletter.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
Powered by
Movable Type





Oh, By the Way, Three Years Ago We Had a Massive Stimulus for Infrastructure... How Did That Work Out?

Um, it didn't.

It's an interesting thing. Democrats claim to be all about the infrastructure. Even Neocon Nazis like myself don't mind government spending if it's actually being used to build and improve roads and bridges.

And yet it never actually gets done. There's always some brighter, shinier bauble for Washington to piss our money away on.

This was discussed on this blog some time ago-- a year ago? Two years? Three? I forget. I had myself suggested during one of these stimulus debates -- how they all blur together -- that we ought to kill two birds with one stone and just start spending money to improve roads and bridges. A commenter, who seemed to know what he was talking about, told me that wouldn't work, as it would take 9 months to a year or more to even begin such products, so the "stimulus" part of that idea was a non-starter.

I believed him. As we now know -- again -- there simply aren't a lot of "shovel-ready" projects ready to begin on a short time frame. Having conceded he was right, I suggested that there really ought to be some office in DC that does nothing but survey, plan, get the necessary permits, etc. for new infrastructure work on a moment's notice, and constantly update such plans and permits so that they never go stale.

Well, of course no one did that. (I don't mean to suggest DC should have jumped at my offhand suggestion; just that my offhand suggestion was common sense and should have occurred to someone.) So here we are again. All this money for kill-two-birds stimulus and infrastructure work, but we can't kill two birds, because if we work on infrastructure the money won't be stimulative now as it won't begin flowing for up to to years (or more), and if we "stimulate" the economy, it's going for condoms and diaphragms, because, apparently, you don't need as many engineers or permits or EPA impact analyses to give people birth control.

And so the money gets pissed away on a large number of smaller-bore new spending initiatives.

Mickey Kaus criticized Democrats for always wanting to piss money away on these small-bore porkbarrel mini-initiatives. Their imperative, he suggested, always seemed to be keep the budget as high as possible. This year's budget creates the baseline for next year's budget, so spending money on whatever had the sanguine outcome (to them) of always keeping as much money in federal hands as possible. Democrats, he suggested, we wary of ever restraining spending, because if they did, the budget would come down and Republicans would begin agitating for tax cuts -- anathema to Democrats.

This was a bad goal, he suggested, even from a liberal perspective. Because, he observed, if the Democrats ever became serious about budget discipline, within five or so years of slowly growing budgets, we'd have a surplus, or close to it, and could begin retiring debt as Clinton did at the very end of his term. And yes, Republicans would agitate for a big tax cut. But Democrats could at that point begin agitating for one of their Holy Grail big ticket spending plans -- the holiest among them, federal health coverage.

With all that money saved by not pissing it away on smaller programs that breed like Tribbles, each one born already pregnant with the next $300 million bike-path Tribble, the nation would find itself with enough money to actually seriously contemplate spending it on the Democrats' holy grails. Sure, Republicans would oppose and would suggest tax cuts. But at least their holy grails would be achievable and possible. They'd be potentially winnable political arguments -- we could have more tax cuts, sure (they would say), but we could also have federally guaranteed/subsidized health care instead, at the same tax rates, without fresh tax hikes.

As opposed to the situation they always (deliberately) wind up in a situation where the nation is broke as fuck and the only possible way to achieve these ginormous spending plans is to run a huge deficit or raise tax rates through the roof.

Fiscal restraint makes sense for both parties, then. And yet neither seems terribly capable of it. Neither party much likes the status quo, and yet neither can manage the fiscal restraint necessary to achieve their longer-term goals. Keep spending low for a number of years and we'll have a small surplus, and Republicans can urge a tax cut. And Democrats can urge a big, glittery new spending plan like health coverage.

But here we are again. Republicans are finally waking up to the joys of fiscal responsibility, but Democrats are busy dusting off fifteen year old wish-lists of spending "priorities" (and coming up with new ones, of course), wasting our money in new, exciting ways.


No Money For This, I'm Guessing: Polynikes wries*:

I know of a shovel ready project that should have been ready to go yesterday.

The WTC.

* Verb form of "wry." I just made that shit up. That's how I roll.

Posted by: Ace at 02:53 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Republicans are bucking the wave, and the stock market is going up.

Coincidence?

Posted by: toby928 at January 28, 2009 03:03 PM (PD1tk)

2 Ace, are you suggesting that if someday we do come into a small pile of money to spend, after the bills have been paid, that we ought to think aboutcreating socialized healthcare?
I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with that idea.
Just because you may be in the black at the end of the year, doesn't mean you go and create a money-sucking program that will surely put everything back into crimson red again in a short while. You use that to refund taxes or to pay down some more debt. You do not create more debt.
GM tried to do the same thing with it's unionized workforce, offering lifetime healthcare. They've only recently had to revoke it for new workers 65 and over. The ones already retired are the only ones enjoying it. GM is broke as fuck and swimming in red ink because they agreed to that insane benefit.

Posted by: EC at January 28, 2009 03:04 PM (mAhn3)

3 >>>Ace, are you suggesting that if someday we do come into a small pile of money to spend, after the bills have been paid, that we ought to think about creating socialized healthcare?

No, I'm not sure how you got that. I am saying that fiscal discipline is in both parties' interests, because it gives Republicans the room to demand a tax cut, and gives Democrats the room to urge universal health care.

Kaus' argument, and mine, is that fiscal discipline ought to make sense to Democrats too, and that they should stop pissing away every dollar they can get their hands on on holistic healing for the homeless.


Posted by: ace at January 28, 2009 03:07 PM (gEsIJ)

4 Kaus is assuming that fiscal discipline already makes sense to Republicans. (Which it does -- would that out leaders get the message.)

He is making an argument that the democratic base ought to get behind this too.

We'd have different reasons for supporting it. But we all should support it.


Posted by: ace at January 28, 2009 03:09 PM (gEsIJ)

5 permits or EPA impact analyses
Where I come from, these are the *only* reasons we do not have "shovel ready" projects. Other than that, we have had road, dam and transport and water projects planned out in advance for *decades* now.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at January 28, 2009 03:09 PM (ujg0T)

6
This is what I think is going to happen: The Republicans will compromise and the bill will be pared down to about $600 billion from $825 billion.

Republicans will see this as a victory because it saved the taxpayers $225 billion and the Democrats will see it as a victory because 1) they can claim it's a bipartisan bill, and 2) they can blame the Republicans under-funding the bill when the stimulus doesn't stimulate the economy, and 3) they can use it against the Republicans to show that the Republicans don't care about education, the environment, or minorities.

Winners: the Left
Losers: the GOP and America

Posted by: Darling at January 28, 2009 03:10 PM (Fc3KN)

7 Isn't Polynikes Greek for "many spades". Or is it "many shoes", or perhaps "many missiles"? I get this one confused.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at January 28, 2009 03:10 PM (1hM1d)

8 Kaus' argument, and mine, is that fiscal discipline ought to make sense to Democrats too, and that they should stop pissing away every dollar they can get their hands on on holistic healing for the homeless.
I've never seen an example of fiscal discipline by a Democrat, or even anything approaching something sensible in terms of proper government spending. I took your example of socialized healthcare and thought you were saying that it would be worthy to pursue, if we ever had the money. Sorry, my fault.
I thought that Republicans would be the party of spending discipline, but the last 8 years blew that away. Most of the blame goes to Bush and RINO's who got suckered into playing nice with Dems and wanting to be friends.
Fuck that, the lesson has been learned: you get burned trying to be bipartisan.

Posted by: EC at January 28, 2009 03:12 PM (mAhn3)

9 For "Fiscal Discipline" I refer you to the next post on your own site.

IOW: The current crop of politicians are batshit crazy.

Posted by: Al at January 28, 2009 03:12 PM (CyBUS)

10 I've worked in the past in putting together proposals for federal government construction contracts. The procurement process alone goes like this:
1. Funds are made available.
2. Contracting Office puts out a Phase I Solicitation. This is a request for proposal that involves putting together your company's qualifications, including past experience which must be similar to the specifics of the project at hand, safety experience, bonding capacity and the like. Contractors are given 3-4 weeks to prepare this, and the government takes 2-3 MONTHS to review them and grade them. After the grading process is completed, a "short list" of qualified contractors is prepared.
3. The short-listed contractors are thenincluded in the Phase III Solicitation where they are providedcontract documents, and usually have about another month to put their proposals together. These proposals include a Technical Proposal, which is basically a regurgitation of the Phase I information, and a Price Proposal. These two proposals go to two separate boards for grading. The contractor with the best combined score between their two proposals gets chosen. This process typically takes another 2-3 months.
4. The first month or twoof any contract is typically the general contractor securing its subcontracts, as well as doing "submittals" which are product data and samples of the specified materials which the architects engineers must approve. At the point that submittals are approved, actual physical work may begin, at which point the money begins to flow.
So your previous discussion years ago about it taking around 9 months to get the money moving is pretty well dead on.

Posted by: aic4ever at January 28, 2009 03:12 PM (wRNeQ)

11 #3: Dude, he didn't say that. He said that the Dems would say that, and that oddly they don't vote to restrain spending even though it is in their interests to do so.

Posted by: Croaker at January 28, 2009 03:12 PM (+SdaU)

12 I swear I'm living in an alternate universe (not because of the Value-Rite, really). Why, instead oftaking action that we know will actually stimulate the economy (tax cuts, environmental deregulation, tort reform,stuff that, you know, works), Congresscritters do everything possible to spread money around Washington and create new programs that only spread moremoney around Washington.
I do hope they put some money towardsunemployment. I've been on it for a while andthat's the only thing keeping me from becoming moron-bait.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at January 28, 2009 03:14 PM (ZGhSv)

13 fiscal discipline already makes sense ... we all should support it.

Because otherwise there will be a day the Federal Government goes trying to borrow money, and the prospective lenders will say "no, thanks". And the dollar will be unpegged from the OPEC standard and we'll be, what's the word? screwed.

Muagabe won't have anything on us at that point.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at January 28, 2009 03:14 PM (1hM1d)

14 Here in Florida, it takes a minimum of 1 year to jump through all the governmental hoops and acquire all the permits for a private project. There are permits for the ACOE (Army Corp of Engineers) (Wetlands) EPA (Sewer) Water Management District (Wetlands and Stormwater) Local Utility permits (water) Local Planning / Building permits FDOT driveway connection permits. Traffic studies for concurrency (big problems, all the roads are at capacity so pony up big $$$ and widen the road, or wait for the county / state to widen it for you. School needs review, Fire Department review, Waste Management review. etc. The actual design time is miniscule compared to permitting. Once the permits are in hand depending on the size add a additional year of actual construction for a 1 phase smallish project.
On Government projects? Double it. Minimum.

Posted by: Vmaximus at January 28, 2009 03:14 PM (sA5Gz)

15 Here in Florida, it takes a minimum of 1 year to jump through all the governmental hoops and acquire all the permits for a private project.
In California, wecan only dream of suchrapid progress.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at January 28, 2009 03:17 PM (ujg0T)

16 The stimulus is going to plunge us into a deeper recession or possible depression. It creates no tax revenue and there is no way to pay it back without taxing businesses more and individuals more. Or they can print more money and make the dollar useless. Hopefully it's only a deeper recession and we climb out by 2015, but I don't have high hopes for that. I'm not sure this country and her citizens will be able to handle another depression. While it's good that Repubs are starting to oppose it, they need to start sounding the alarm bell because this could be it.

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at January 28, 2009 03:20 PM (QlEFH)

17 When looking at infrastructure projects, cui bono applies.

Resurfacing a highway out in the middle of nowhere serves a large number of people who are just passing through. No opportunities for graft.

But putting a nice offramp in the middle of nowhere is the perfect way to gain some nice political contributions from the few who benefit enormously.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 28, 2009 03:20 PM (InMdt)

18 wait a second, the One said the previous administration failed to spend on infrastructure, so therefore this 2005 bill doesn't exist.

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 28, 2009 03:24 PM (QxSug)

19 fiscal discipline is in both parties' interests, because it gives Republicans the room to demand a tax cut, and gives Democrats the room to urge universal health care.
Maybe a look at what the parties actually do would free you of this crazy notion.
Republicans don't want spending (or taxes, really) cut, or they'd have done it once, ever, and Democrats always get exactly what they want by pretending they didn't get it when Republicans gave it to them (e.g., the medical industry, like most of its size now, is, thanks mostly to our fine Republican presidents, far more socialized than not; the only nationalization it really lacks is rhetorical, which Democrats will only seek when it's extra-rhetorically accompli (which it pretty much is)).

Posted by: Hc34T at January 28, 2009 03:29 PM (Hc34T)

20 The Government trying to "stimulate" the economy is pushing on a string. It won't work, it has never worked. A trillion fucking dollars down the drain for condoms and Amtrak. Game over, man, game over. And frankly, tax cuts in this situation, even real tax cuts, probably wouldn't work, either. A tax cut for a family in which both wage earners have lost their jobs is not much of a stimulus. At the same time the Dems are pushing this piece of shit through Congress, taxpayers are being prepped with vaseline and K-Y jelly for the bail-out of the banks and their ever-loving management who pissed money down the drain for bad mortgages, certified as grade A byMoody's, etc.Next up,bad credit card debt (the average credit card debt in 2008 was over $11,000.)
It's all just so beautiful to the Democrats, they have entered into the land of unicorns and rainbows right here on Planet Earth.
We are soooo fucked. And our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at January 28, 2009 03:42 PM (QMGr1)

21 Sorry, mikey, I don't think there's any money earmarked for K-Y or Vaseline in this bill. Which means the fucking will be even more painful.

Posted by: kelly at January 28, 2009 03:55 PM (TIomG)

22 I happen to know at least $16 million of that last infrastructure bill went to upgrading a commuter rail and streets surrounding Fenway Park in Boston. Of course being Massachusetts the money has been allocated and not one damn bit of work has been undertaken in four years. It's all in 'planning' so every politician, union, and 'community group' (which happens to have no relation to the neighborhood) can graft the hell out of it.

My cracked crooked sidewalk is from 1920, the routinely failing streetlights and signals are from 1954, half the street trees have been dead for 30 years, there isn't anything resembling ADA for all the wheel chair folks, more than three quarters of the storm drains are undersized or blocked, and the sewer system is vintage 1896 brick falling apart. YEAH IT'S CLEAR THEY REALLY KNOW HOW TO SPEND MONEY MAINTAINING INFRASTRUCTURE.

But they can afford to build basketball courts with new backboards ever two years so the ghetto rats from the projects two neighborhoods over can get in a game before a round of robbery or burglary. Thinking of the children I guess, no wonder our schools are so awesome with 50% dropout rates.

Posted by: Blue Falcon at January 28, 2009 05:00 PM (SMD8k)

23 My good friends above at #11, aic4ever and at #15 Vmaximus know the deal. And they are quite correct that whatever time is scheduled to get these projects going, double it. 9 months to get the project/money moving would be heavenly, but also a pipe dream.
The only thing I'm hearing out here is that there are many private projects which have been bid by subcontractors, but not released for construction. The owners bring their monetary proposals to the banks with all the backup, but the banks won't give them the money. So all this crap about TARP, freeing up the money movement, etc. has been an epic fail to date. Everybody's ready to go, but with no $$$, nothing's gonna move.

Posted by: Paulie in AZ at January 28, 2009 05:03 PM (8sSFK)

24 I too know of a "shovel-ready" job: Hire someone to follow Unicorn One around and clean up the bullshit unicornshit he extrudes with every single utterance. I'm told it has a fragrant smell and comes in many colors like a...like...wait, it'll come to me eventually.
As for taking 9 months to get any large project going after it's approved to go forward with design, federal or otherwise, that's way optimistic. Try 1.5 to 2 years minimum, with some going much longer than that.

Posted by: genghis at January 28, 2009 08:46 PM (1XErj)

25 Oh, By the Way, Three Years Ago We Had a Massive Stimulus for Infrastructure... How Did That Work Out?

Um, it didn't.
- Ace


Well, here in Arizonyland we did get some infrastructure stimulus in the form of a light rail train that goes a whopping 20mph (unless its near the university where the next generation of smarty pants can't seem to understand what a train is - hence the authority that controls the train told the conductor to slow it down to 5mph in Tempe for those college students) and covers a distance of 19 miles as the crow flies.


Yep, I remember well the trolley car at the main bus area in downtown Phoenix that had been taken off the streets in the 1930s because everyone back then new trolley cars were obsolete and nobody likes standing in the sun during July in 110 degree heat with moisture coming from the Gulf (aka The Monsoon Season).


Now, in 2009, we have a light rail train that a) makes people stand in the middle of the streets waiting in the 110 degree heat with monsoon moisture and dust storms with only benches to sit or hide behind, b) has overhead cables to run the electricity and will subsequently need extensive maintenance from the same elements mentioned above that are battering the people, c) there are no toilets anywhere near the stations so please bring your depends or go before you leave the house, d) there are no security cameras and already someone was beaten up at one of the stops near the airport, e) they've decided they need to raise the price for a ride on those 19 miles - already, f) is 19th century technology in a 21st century world.


That's where the money went Ace!
Thanks for pulling out your wallet and handing it over to the jokers in Phoenix City Hall for their grand idea!
My prediction: 2 years max before they junk the idea and start to repave every road they chunked up to lay track down due to people from mexico not knowing to not drive on the train tracks. Yep, we had 1 of that happen already too but no casualties resulted. It needs to be an illegal immigrant - oops, undocumented worker, killed, before they put a stop to this idiocy.


Light rail running on electric overhead cables. Didn't we put a man on the moon? Or was that just a dream?

Posted by: AthenaDelphi at January 29, 2009 12:37 AM (Tk2NM)

26 We've got a dozen or more new nuclear reactors ready to dig at existing nuclear power plant sites. Let's start those!
Instead, the stimulus bill throws billions at wind and solar but since those don't work all the time we want them too, they're also through billions at "Smart Grids."
Smart Grids is a cover name for electric rationing. Remember the California remote control thermostats from last winter? It will be those nation-wide. Once installed, "Smart Grids" will be able to set your thermostat, turn off your dishwasher, washing machine, and all other major appliciances in your home.
Big Brother-ish? You betcha.

Posted by: Whitehall at January 29, 2009 03:53 PM (htrmr)

27 Video Joiner,TOD Converter,MTS Converter,HD Video Converter

Posted by: hyth at February 02, 2009 09:33 PM (zCAjn)

28 Video Converter Mac,FLV Converter Mac,WMV Converter,FLV Converter for Mac,SWF Converter

Posted by: cvbcvxbsdf at March 30, 2009 10:47 PM (EX2Rj)

29 FLV Converter,FLV to AVI
Converter,FLV to MOV
Converter,FLV to MPEG
Converter,FLV to MP4
Converter,FLV to 3GP
Converter,FLV to WMV
Converter,FLV to SWF
Converter,FLV to DVD
Converter,FLV to MPEG4
Converter,FLV to DivX
Converter,FLV to XviD
Converter,FLV to VOB
Converter,FLV to
H264 Converter,FLV to MJPEG
Converter,FLV to Audio
Converter,FLV to MP3
Converter,FLV to WMA
Converter,FLV to M4A
Converter,FLV to AAC
Converter,FLV to PSP
Converter,FLV to PS3
Converter,FLV to iPod
Converter,FLV to
iPhone Converter,FLV
to Zune Converter,FLV
to PPT Converter,FLV
Editor-FLV to FLV Converter

Posted by: mac users at May 04, 2009 10:22 AM (LFbgk)

30 Now new paris hilton sex tape

Posted by: paris hilton sex tape at June 11, 2009 03:41 AM (uCsD1)

31 Nise site, http://gihuhofaz.007webs.com Best how to choose your friends, =-[, http://gufjodis.007webs.com ardith marie mock death certificate here, :]], http://comoknad.007webs.com hot rod lincoln mark viii now, 932, http://hulwilad.007webs.com Buy horses for sale in wa, %P, http://lohapugol.007webs.com what is a heel spur, jphatr, http://lapuzitut.007webs.com Real what is in school lunches, 43555, http://pcinigof.007webs.com phoenix contact ethwrnwt switch 2891152 free, =), http://hacipakil.007webs.com Best medical mutual of ohio contract, 679, http://txakipm.007webs.com romantic ballet themes based on discount, nuix, http://bradjc.007webs.com lcs 2005 options greyed out, 61760,

Posted by: how to choose your friends at July 02, 2009 07:24 PM (J+Tj8)

(Jump to top of page)






Processing 0.0, elapsed 0.0201 seconds.
14 queries taking 0.0142 seconds, 39 records returned.
Page size 48 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.



MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat