Hoo-kay...

Lookit...

All's I said was Verizon sucks.
And, the only reason I said it was because of that time, not so long ago, when the dickhead in the loggin' truck tore down the damned phone wires and it took Verizon fer fuckin' EVER to get them put back up.

Since then, I have had sevearl hits on the search phrase "Verizon sucks", but madoooone, this one beats all.

I don't know who it's really from, but the return addy has the name Chuck U. Farley on it and for that reason, plus this thing is such a manifesto that it just begs to be published, I'mina do it.

Thank you for this masterpeice, whoevah ya are and I hope things have gotten (or ever do get) better around there for ya.

Incompetence pisses me straight off, too, Dude....

Verizon Online DSL Sales CSC-Tampa - aka DS-Hell

"My best description of the DSL Tampa Sales office operation is: a
complete Cluster-Fuck of ongoing problems and issues of epic proportions,
directly under the control of (mis) Management from every level and their
ongoing comedy of completely avoidable errors. Its even been compared
to a Shakespearian-like tragedy where everybody involved needlessly
suffers deep and permanent grief and losses. I have never seen such
piss-poor judgment and operation skills when it comes to the decisions that
are made and the way it wastes company money, pisses off, frustrates and
churns customers and truly erodes the inner most soul of its best
employees. After several years of having the misfortune of being employed
here, I feel compelled to tell of my DS-Hell experience. It is only right
and just, that the public and corporate get a senior Rep’s first-hand
account of the day-to-day operations of this illegal abortion of an
office. Please understand, this is NOT an employee gripe against the
company, but a loud wake up call for anybody in Management who touches this
thing that it is in dire need of a complete major process overhaul, as
our survival is clearly at stake.
As you read on, you will truly be in awe of just how utterly fucked up
and out of control this ENTIRE operation is. Things are so bad that a
class action lawsuit by more than 10,000 completely pissed off customers
was filed in January of 2001. You can see the details of the case by
going to: www.cmht.com/casewatch/cases/cwverizon.htm. Many of the
problems were caused by the complete lack of foresight by upper Management of
keeping up with the cable companies in the “broadband race”. Both this
and the somewhat delayed 2001 merge of Bell Atlantic and GTE left
Verizon way behind and thus scrambling to catch up. This “rush” is partial
cause of the present day turmoil that exists. You will truly be with
your mouth agape in disbelief, as I cite several examples of the
Cluster-Fuck in motion, it’s core and how it’s mass and gravity continue to grow
unchecked at an alarming rate to this day.
Let me briefly cite exactly what’s at the core of the fore mentioned
Cluster-Fuck and then further explain the examples:

1) The complete misdirection of inbound calls to the DSL Voice Portal
(IVRU) system that is both known and documented by Management and their
utter disregard and refusal to correct them.

2) A long history of inadequate, slow, poorly designed and error-prone
ordering software, (Oasis, OLO, and SSP) as well as ongoing
miscommunications to customers, once again under the complete auspices of truly
incompetent and hands-off, lame-ass IT Management and their departments.

3) Escalating, outrageously high sales quotas on both DSL, dial-up and
way over-priced Linksys Routers that are not ethically obtainable
within normal 8 hr. workdays and ongoing IVRU issues. Unjustifiable and
wasteful ongoing mandatory overtime, mostly due to above-mentioned #1 and
below-mentioned #4.

4) A long history of extremely high employee turnover due to
above-mentioned #’s 1-3, as well as other obscene “needs of the business”
management policies. This too is documented in HR records. And now the
“contractor-only” hiring policy.

Now, let’s take a deeper look into the above issues one at a time:

The IVRU DSL Voice Portal has an extensive, notorious history of
frustrating both customers and employees alike to the point of near insanity.
No one is spared the wrath of its relentless torture. It has always
been completely inadequate at first, properly screening, and qualifying
the caller and then routing them to the proper office that is best
equipped to handle their type of call request. To make matters worse, it is
now ALL voice response prompts, which means an even higher possibility
of being misdirected. For example, a person with less than perfect
English or diction can be routed to the completely wrong dept/office,
depending upon how the system’s “voice recognition” interprets the caller’s
voice input. So if you speak like The Elephant Man, talk ghetto, or like
a true redneck, this system will swallow you whole and then shit you
out to the wrong department; most likely into Sales. There are many days
when our Reps. take 20-30 calls in a row that are not sales-related.
Truly guys, a major fuck-up and a 4-star money-waster here!! Think about
this: a properly designed IVRU should first get the customer to a main
menu of basic choices, then further qualify and screen the call based
upon the callers input. BY PROPER DESIGN, it should NOT let the customer
GET to the WRONG place. That is its only fucking purpose!! When you let
someone advance aimlessly thru the system by pressing the “0” key and
they wind up in a residential DSL fucking Sales queue looking to get the
balance of their home phone bill or to renew their Verizon Wireless
Free-Up card; you have a problem Houston. Although the majority of the
misdirects are external, many are also from other internal sources (other
Verizon offices) that also need to be re-educated on the what/when
before they transfer a customer to Sales. Historically, these people have
proven to be as capable in their job function as Stevie Wonder being
your tour guide during a blackout. Customers also complain DAILY about the
difficulty of wading through the treacherous array of voice prompts and
how much they hate to have to call in to us for anything.
Clearly, through both input from the different depts. and proper
flow-charting design, we could both better serve the customers and employees
alike, while saving a butt-load of money by both first completely
re-vamping and then ongoing tweaking of the ENTIRE IVRU. Once again,
Management at ALL levels refuses to do this. Any local manager with a grade
school diploma could easily see this by doing regular call observations
and then take the appropriate action to get it corrected. Over the
years, they have wasted a shit load of money by hiring external companies to
“determine if there is an IVRU problem”, only to come to the abundantly
obvious conclusion that we are literally SLAMMED with butt loads of
misdirected garbage calls. This has also been documented in a
corporate-wide Service Alert in 2003. Contrary to the mental hand-job of outright
lies they tell you, they can fix the problem and they fucking know it!!
It is a relatively easy and inexpensive fix as well!! It will likely be
key to our future survival. It is truly fucking amazing that we are a
multi-billion dollar, global Telecommunications company and we can’t
properly operate an IVRU?? What a complete and total fucking
embarrassment!! At the present time, through the use of internal documented call
tracking by multiple Reps., we receive 60%-70% mis-directs in the sales
queue. An additional 10% or more are calls that are NOT DSL QUALIFIED or
don’t have Verizon local phone service and should have never made it
thru the IVRU to the Sales queue in the first place!! Now your total is
nearing 70%-80% misdirects!! This means that if the IVRU did it’s job,
we could operate the center with 50%-70% or less of the present
head-count, not to mention eliminating mandatory overtime and restoring
employee morale and dignity back to the office. The annual cost savings could
easily be in to the several hundred thousand + dollars range as well.
Why does this shameless charade go on and on when the “fix” is SO easy??
Just a glimpse within one section of the core of the impenetrable
cluster. Everyday that they wait just pisses more and more money away. As a
long term stockholder and veteran employee, I am truly appalled at
Management’s indifference approach to the issue.

IT and ordering systems issues and other miscues have plagued the
entire Verizon Online division since day one. It all started with a an
ordering system called Oasis- more commonly known as “SLO-ASIS” by every
poor soul that’s ever had to fucking use it. This IT ordering tool
abortion used to take 15-20 minutes to complete one fucking simple DSL sales
order and STILL had one of the highest rate of provisioning errors
(order fallout) known to mankind. Many customer orders did not complete or
got hung up with some error and the Loop Qualification was inaccurate.
NX1.7, (the West former GTE ordering tool) although a much quicker and
easier system for the Rep. to use, has not fared much better with the
order fallout. As you can imagine, this just increases pissed off
customers and churn, as well as calls to and from every damn department to
get the problems corrected and the customer their service. To make
matters worse, this piece of shit would periodically “clock” for extended
lengths of time, or go down more than a Cajun whore during Mardi Gras for
any reason at any time during the business day. There were days when
you literally sat there at you desk waiting on SLO-ASIS, (like watching
paint dry) wondering what the fuck you did in your miserable life to
possibly deserve this kind of shit. Worse, yet, how the fuck could they
possibly let this go on day after fucking day?? Another SLO-ASIS
“loophole” issue involved sinister scumbag Reps. canceling your orders that
were in progress, then replacing them with their own orders to get sales
credit, once again leaving both you as a Rep. and customers with that
“just raped”, not so fresh feeling. Not to mention their regular routine
of “slamming” customers by the shit load!! These felon-like maggots
openly laughed at and even bragged about their defiant acts of both
company sales guidelines and ethics policies. Worse yet, local management
looked the other way, as the more sales they got, the bigger their bonuses
were and the better they looked to their direct reports. Although a few
e-mails were sent out reminding of “proper sales guidelines”, most were
either ignored or deleted upon receipt, as there was never any real
threat of disciplinary action against the offenders. You then get to
repeatedly re-live the emotional trauma of your rape, by watching in awe as
these same thieving pieces of putrid shit get awarded “sales
performance” prizes ranging from hundreds of dollars in American Express Gift
Checks, to Las Vegas trips as well as fucking Jet Skis and 4-Wheeler ATVs
costing over $5,000.00 each!! As a Rep, it’s like living a total
fucking Freddy Kruger nightmare!! You try your hardest to make your sales
honestly and truly help the customer. You endure the Vietnam P.O.W.
camp-like emotional torture of relentless irates and misdirects that you
can’t help. You apologize your ass off to customers daily, knowing that
there’s gotta be a better fucking way to get this shit done right the
first fucking time!! Does anybody in Management give a rat’s ass about any
of this shit?? Obviously NOT!!
Finally, after years of administering punishing pain and torture to
both customers and employees alike, Management realized that SLO-ASIS
needed to be dumped like yesterday’s retched turd (summer, 2003) and gave
us OLO, or commonly known as the 1-Step Tool. This next IT blunder was
faster at taking orders, but gave more order errors and fallout (as it
had to update into SLO-ASIS) then its slow predecessor and pissed off
even more customers and Reps. In Jan. 2004, as they slowly transitioned
towards the mid-April, 2004 release of SSP, both these systems were
hosed regularly if not daily. I can clearly remember in mid Jan. of 2004,
when the fucking Einstein-like genius of IT took down SLO-ASIS from 8:45
A.M. ‘til mid afternoon on 9 consecutive business days. This means that
during the busiest times of the day when you needed to use the system
most, you were completely hosed. Does this make any business sense to
anyone, anywhere?? And remember, they’re not just crippling our one
office. This system is used by other Verizon Online Depts., like Billing and
Tech Support as well as Verizon local CSSC Reps. in every state that
was former Bell Atlantic territory from Maine to West Virginia!! This
affected literally thousands of employees. Don’t you think that in most
normal companies, they would schedule this shit to be done after business
hours?? Not these fucking lame ass retards!! How dare we ask them to
come in on weekends or nights to get the upgrades done!! Once again
Management watched it go on all day, every fucking day!! And do you know
what the Management solution was?? Our Section Manager (on her way to the
snack machine) would waddle through the floor with her farm animal size
ass barking out commands to take “paper orders”. Way to go lady!! You
ARE a modern day genius and a living fucking legend!! Problem there, is
that she doesn’t give us “down time” to put the paper orders in!! And
unless you come in at 7:00 A.M. on you own time you can’t use the system
anyway, so you’re condemned to trying to squeeze your “paper orders”
into the system during the day, either between calls, while you’re on
hold with other departments or on your breaks. By comparison, a dental
root canal procedure would be more pleasant.
As of mid April of 2004 we started to use the latest IT ordering
problem child called SSP. Although SSP is very fast and helps the Rep. get
the orders in quickly, it still hoses way too many orders. Worse yet, it
leaves fallout orders in a “Pending” status for weeks, or months until
ultimately the customer calls in irate and wants to know where the hell
their order is. There was a period in May 2004 where we left over
4,000+ customers in limbo, hanging by their genitals in this “pending”
queue. Once again, in true Management fashion, they send out a scripted
service alert telling us to let the customer know that the orders will be
completed as soon as possible, with no “service ready” date and that an
offline team, with no ETA, is working the orders. How completely
fucking weak and ambiguous is THAT?? To compound this insanity, literally
fucking thousands of our customers have had their DSL service
“disconnected in error”(for no apparent reason), due to some sort of internal
system fuck up, that the retards at IT have not resolved yet to this day!!
Is it any wonder why we have incredibly high customer churn and the
American public fucking hates Verizon like Osama Bin Laden?? As of today,
the “pending” problem still is a major issue and SSP clocks way too much
and gives a shit load of error messages, once again thwarting both the
sales and provisioning processes. I still have orders pending for
weeks, if not months after submitting these to IT to be corrected!! Clearly,
this entire ordering platform was never thoroughly and correctly
beta-tested before it was brought online for use. Management should be
crawling IT’s dyslexic retarded ass daily until the problems are corrected
rather than distributing some vague bullshit band-aid solution script to
read to our customers!! It is fucking unimaginable that we can both do
business and treat our customers this way!! These poor people deserve
an honest answer of when they can expect service. Customers have choices
and if we can’t seem to get it done, they WILL go and HAVE gone
elsewhere.
Other inexcusable IT embarrassments have been information being
communicated to customers that is either misleading, inaccurate and/or
completely erroneous on both the Verizon Online (VOL) website or through
direct mail in the form of letters, phone bill inserts or post cards. Let me
just touch on a few of these, so you can have a better feel of just how
deep and wide the festering disease of incompetence has penetrated.
In a corporate service alert distributed on 8/4/2004, IT erroneously
sent 75,000 letters to existing Verizon Online DSL customers that stated
“Remove 1 VERIZON ONLINE DSL CUSTOMER”, indicating that their DSL
service was being cancelled. How can 75,000 letters being sent out to
customers possibly go un-fucking noticed?? Well, in the famous words of
Johnny Knoxville: “Welcome to Jackass!!” How many desks and offices must it
cross before somebody might question the wooden pallet load of 75,000
fucking letters passing by?? Not to mention the cost – each letter
37cents x 75,000 letters = $27,750 just in fucking postage alone!! And what
about the fallout when these poor people call in, pissed off in a
panic, wondering how and why their service was being cancelled?? How could
anybody in IT possibly let this happen unnoticed and then do absolutely
nothing to stop it!! Who IS driving this IT bus??
Through another corporate service alert dated 7/23/04 another
inexcusable IT mishap was documented involving the Verizon Online ordering
website that occurred from 7/8/2004 – 7/23/04. It impacted approximately
4,700 customers that had placed online orders for DSL service. The
customers were mistakenly shown as being Loop Qualified (DSL available) in
error, as DSL was NOT actually available. The problem here is that it
took IT 15 days to realize that this had occurred before any one even
noticed. How completely fucking weak is that!! Some of these poor people
had been waiting for literally years to get DSL, only to have their
genitals teased to the brink of orgasm and then left in a “blue balls”- like
state of frustration, as they later found out that DSL was actually NOT
available. To compound this total fuck up, there was also a “free after
rebate” promotion for a Linksys wireless router going on during the
same time period. Many of these eager souls, placed their order for that
too paying by credit card, only to later find out that it was all a
cruel joke. They got their routers right away, but no DSL equipment or
service. And where do you suppose these customer calls were sent?? You got
it!! To the Sales Dept!! Where we could do absolutely nothing to help
these poor people, only to transfer them to our cancellations group
(Retention) to credit them back and apologize for this shameless
embarrassing IT internal fuck-up.
Other IT ongoing errors involve current Verizon local phone customers
being sent erroneous information by mail that they are now
“pre-qualified for DSL”, when in actuality they are not. The problem here is that IT
sends large bulk marketing to everyone within a certain area where DSL
is available within their Central Office (CO). However, not every
customer within that CO is loop qualified (electrically capable) for DSL.
Here again, IT drops the ball for not accurately qualifying these poor
folks in the engineering database before sending them letters. Worse yet,
they can’t even provide an estimated time frame for availability, which
is completely unacceptable. Once again, leaving our customer perception
in the toilet of a public rest room.
Although too numerous to cite here, a long notorious history of IT
fuck-ups have occurred and I mention these few only to demonstrate both
the scope and diversity of the ongoing problems that exist and how it
truly impacts EVERY aspect of the business. To me, IT fuck-ups are both
our biggest threat to the future of this company and by far the
predominate root cause of the majority of the Cluster-Fuck of problems that they
spawn. Those responsible at every level should be held accountable for
all their ineptitude and demonstrated ongoing indifference regarding
these types of issues. There are truly NO excuses or valid justification
for ANY of this.

Escalating and unrealistic sales quotas and other management issues are
now at an all time high. I don’t want to dwell on this section too
long, but I do want to give you a clear view of just how skewed and out of
touch these fuckers are with reality.
Let’s start with July 2004 DSL sales quotas: first they want you to
sell about 323 DSL units this month. Now lets break that down: you have
approx. 22 selling days to do this – so you need to avg. about 15 units a
day to meet your quota. Problem here again is the huge call misdirect
and order fallout issues. On most days, you are lucky to get an avg. of
13-15 DSL qualified calls out of the approx. 60 calls you answer. Of
those you’ll sell about 12-13, with maybe 1-2 being a follow up. That
means that you’ll avg. about 11-12 per day after all the ordering system
IT fuck-ups which = approx. 253 sales per month. The conclusion: you
finish the month at about 79% of quota. So as you can see, even if you
sold every one of the DSL 15 qualified calls, (beyond a Superman-like
feat) after order fallout, you couldn’t possibly meet this quota honestly
and ethically without “slamming” customers. Next are the overpriced
Linksys 802.11B wireless and 4-port wired routers. The wireless units
competitively sell for an avg. of $39.95 after rebate in many major
electronic stores. Other equal brands like D-Link and Netgear sell for $19.99 -
$29.99 after rebate. The Verizon Online price is $99.95. A 4-port wired
cable/DSL router competitively sells for $10-$20, after rebate. The
Verizon Online price: $79.95. Holy shit!! Who the fuck in their right mind
would possibly buy any of these things from us, when we’re 3-5 times or
more the price of the rest of the fucking populated planet?? And our
quotas on this piece of shit are at 74 per month for July and 90 for
August!! That means that you’ll need to sell 4-5 per day to make quota,
especially after people read the fucking Best Buy or Circuit City ad and
find they’ve been a victim of “router rape” by Verizon and then return
what you had to sell your ass off, for them to buy!! And to top it off,
for the last 3 months, we’ve been advertising the shit out of this
thing “free after $99.00 rebate”. So, now more than ever before, customers
don’t want to spend the $99.95 for it at all!! Great time to skyrocket
the quotas guys!!
Next item is about “close ratio”. First, lets give you Management’s
calculation method, then, I’ll apply some 5th grade math of my own.
Management says that they define your close ratio as your total daily DSL
sales divided by the total # of calls you take daily; i.e.: 14 sales
divided by 60 calls = 23.3%. Here’s the actual close ratio: 14 sales
divided by the total number of DSL qualified customers whom you pitched –(15)
= 93%!! Do you see how totally fucking skewed their methodology is!!
This is nothing short of a complete insult to your intelligence!! They’re
holding you as a Rep “sales accountable” for every damn call that you
get, including the shit load of misdirects that THEY drive right in to
our center!! If you have an a la carte router or dial-up sale, they are
NOT counted as a sale and furthermore count against you for close
ratio!! Can you see how totally fucking twisted and absurd both their math
and logic is?? Their 25% ratio alone tells you that they acknowledge
approx. 70-75% misdirected calls. Worse yet, they “coach” you if you’re
consistently under “their” bullshit 25% close ratio rule. This leaves you
dizzy, scratching your head in a Twilight Zone catatonic state of
disbelief, as your true close ratio is damn close to 90%!!
The next departure from reality involves you being “sales quota
responsible” when you’re on vacation. So that means that if you have 3-4
weeks of yearly vacation, YOU, as a Rep must meet your ENTIRE monthly
quota; even though you’re not even in the fucking building!! Anyone with the
common sense of a seedless grape could clearly see that this is
impossible. Not these Fuckers!! If you start to fall behind on quota, they’ll
put you on “an action plan” to improve your “poor” performance. Another
classic example of the true Cluster-Fuck in motion and it’s warped view
of reality.

Ongoing extremely high employee turnover has always plagued this office
as well. It is the fourth and final component that completes the
Cluster-Fuck. The synergy of ongoing problems and complete frustration will
ultimately lead to your unavoidable surrender here. It already has for
literally the hundreds if not thousands of the willing, yet doomed souls
that have passed and continue to pass through our doors.
In October of 2003, Verizon Management employees were offered a
“Voluntary Separation Package” – aka a VSP. At that time we had about 110
Sales Reps. on the floor. 62 of the 110 (over 56%) chose to take the VSP,
proving both the “fed-the-fuck-up” and “completely hopeless” employee
sentiment of this intolerable and unbearable working environment. For
many, it was the ultimate “out” – a chance to be finally be free of their
relentless misery, get about a years worth of pay and benefits and then
flip this fucking place off in the rear view mirror one final time on
your way out of the parking lot!! To cite a more extreme example: this
July, we hired on a new Sales Coach from the leading global wireless
phone manufacturer. Clearly this speaks fucking volumes about this entire
sham and complete horror show of an operation.
Make no mistake, all the turnover here at this office is completely due
to all the above fore mentioned items I cited. Every one of these
things truly makes this entire experience like wallowing naked daily through
a cesspool of raw sewage. To cite another more extreme example: At the
end of July, we hired a Sales Coach from the leading global wireless
phone manufacturer. Although capable, his tour abruptly ended in less
than 1 week, after being bulldozed by the Cluster.
Another by-product of the high turnover is the invoking of mandatory
overtime. This means that once again you are anally penetrated against
your will to endure 1-2 hours of daily torturous overtime for months at
a time until Management can hire some new victims. They justify this
sham as a “due to the needs of the business” issue. In reality, its just
one more mental hand-job of lies, deception and utter bullshit to cover
for their own obvious ongoing incompetence. Management now hires
“contractors only” (non-permanent employees). The vast majority of these
misfits couldn’t hold a permanent full time job in most working
environments, yet we choose to hire them anyway just to fill a seat. On some days,
as you walk through the building, it looks more like a “best of”
Americas Most Wanted ghetto reunion, rather than a serious place of
employment. Besides that, most have no related experience and further complicate
and contribute to the existing state of turmoil. As the new recruits
come on the job, they then have to “re-align” (move) Reps. to “balance”
the different sales teams. So, with the constant hiring, firing and
quitting, you often have to move your desk/seat several times yearly to a
different location. This causes a “Chinese fire drill” state of
confusion, leaving you scrambling to get situated at you new workstation only
to find that you can’t even log-in to the network to get on the phones
and get your work done. And if you do ask for help, like getting your
e-mail set up, odds are our local IT fucking pros will take a week or
more to get to you. Let me give you a better actual example of this: in
2003, due to some IT fuck-up with Lotus Notes, (Verizon’s shit e-mail
program) several Reps were without their e-mail for six fucking weeks
before anyone of these retards could figure out the database/id’s had
crashed and needed to be rebuilt. No other modern company on this planet
would find that acceptable.
Another inexcusable office policy is that of “employee releasability”.
This means that if you do happen to find another job within the
company, local Management has the discretion of the if/when you can be
released from purgatory to start your new position. Many of these poor and
deserving employees have been held back for 90 days or more. Some of these
people were then passed-up for the promotion, as the hiring manager
needed to fill the position a lot sooner. So besides controlling your
everyday miserable piss ant existence, they now have a firm, sinister and
unyielding death grip on your entire future. Once again, leaving you as
an employee completely hosed, knowing that your chance of both
promotion and escape from your hell-like sentence has slipped through your
hands. Hence the nickname for this place: “DS-Hell”. Kudos to fucking
Verizon Online for being the first company to bring the Hotel California
concept where “You can check out any time you want, but you can never
leave…” to it’s best employees. Where else can you be given super human
goals to achieve and yet be micromanaged and treated like such a
kindergarten child??
On behalf of the company, from a Sales Rep who truly cares, I want to
deeply apologize to any and all of our customers for the inexcusable and
shameless Cluster-Fuck of problems that Management has caused us all.
But we as employees on the front line, like you our customers are mutual
victims of their relentless and repeated acts of unlubricated sodomy.
Until current Management is either replaced or figures out that they
need to get in touch with reality, watching this place run for the
dwindling number of us Bruce Willis-like Die-Hards who remain here, will
truly be like watching a monkey fucking a football..."

Well said, Darlin'.
I especially like that last line.
*grin*

Posted by: Stevie at 07:30 PM

Comments

Posted by: Light&Dark at September 10, 2004 09:30 PM (rnRVG)

Posted by: Tuning Spork at September 11, 2004 02:48 PM (GE7HQ)

Posted by: Mad Mikey at September 12, 2004 10:01 AM (f6X8T)

4 Holy christmas! Heh. I love the insights. "Comedy of avoidable errors" sounds like a blog-title in the making.

Posted by: dawn at September 13, 2004 05:42 PM (Zgn4s)

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