Two Generals Joined Cook Case On Obama Citizenship... Just Before It Was Dismissed.
Oh, how they make things interesting:
Cook has now been fired from his employer over the suit, which was dismissed this morning by a federal judge, on the grounds that his canceled deployment orders rendered the case moot. It is not known if Cook, his lawyer, and the generals will file another case, but I rather suspect they will.
A controversial suit brought by a U.S. Army reservist has been joined by a retired Army two-star general and an active reserve Air Force lieutenant colonel. Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook filed the suit July 8 in federal court here asking for conscientious objector status and a preliminary injunction based upon his belief that President Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States and is therefore ineligible to serve as president of the United States and commander-in-chief of the U.S. Armed Forces. However, before the issue got to court, Cook's orders to deploy to Afghanistan were revoked. Lt. Col. Maria Quon, a public affairs officer with the U.S. Army Human Resources Command-St. Louis, said Tuesday that Cook was no longer expected to report Wednesday to MacDill Air Force Base in Florida for mobilization to active duty. Cook, who claims he is now the victim of retaliation due to his suit, received his mobilization orders to report for active duty at MacDill on Wednesday. From there, he was to go to Fort Benning on Saturday for deployment to Afghanistan.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at 01:15 PM
Comments
1
There are a few reports on the 'net that Maj. Cook volunteered for Afghanistan and then filed his lawsuit (a Google search provides several sites, I specifically used this one: http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/cook-v-good-interesting-timeline/ ) It certainly appears that his only motive for "volunteering" was to create the opportunity to file his suit. If I were a commander and believed that one of my officers was volunteering for a combat zone primarily for the purpose of creating grounds for a lawsuit, then most certainly I would not want that person in combat. Viewed from the Army's legitimate primary concerns for commitment and preparedness, NOT sending Major Cook overseas makes perfect sense. Obama's citizenship is still open to question and Major Cook has provided only a time and money wasting diversion.
Posted by: Clayton in Mississippi at July 16, 2009 01:39 PM (Yge2U)
2
Re: "Obama's citizenship is still open to question."
No it isn't. He was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows. (the Certification of Live Birth is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii.) http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html
This was confirmed by the two officials of the state who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it, and this statement was confirmed to be a declaration that Obama was born in Hawaii by the public relations spokeswoman for the Department of Health of Hawaii.http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
Obama was not born in Kenya. There is absolutely no proof that he was born in Kenya. It is as unlikely as his being born on Mars. His mother would have had to go to Kenya while she was pregnant at a time when there were no direct flights and when you had to get a Yellow Fever shot to go to Africa (very bad during pregnancy).
Then, if she gave birth in Kenya, there would be a record of her arriving in Kenya (no such record), a record of her giving birth in Kenya (nothing), and a record of the child being given a US visa to go from Kenya to Hawaii (nothing) or that his mother's passport was amended in Kenya to include him (nothing). There are no documents showing that Obama's mother went to Kenya or gave birth in Kenya.
The Kenyan grandmother of Obama DID NOT say that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii. Listen to the complete tape, particularly to the answer to the question "Whereabouts was he born?" Here is the complete tape on Bert's website. http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3
If that is too difficult to listen to, here is a transcript. http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf
There are Hawaii government records showing that Obama was born in Hawaii and they have been confirmed by the two officials who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it, and a spokewoman for the Department of Health then said that the finding of an original birth certificate means that Obama was born in Hawaii. http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
And there is a woman who remembers Obama's birth in Hawaii. http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html
No it isn't. He was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows. (the Certification of Live Birth is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii.) http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html
This was confirmed by the two officials of the state who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it, and this statement was confirmed to be a declaration that Obama was born in Hawaii by the public relations spokeswoman for the Department of Health of Hawaii.http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
Obama was not born in Kenya. There is absolutely no proof that he was born in Kenya. It is as unlikely as his being born on Mars. His mother would have had to go to Kenya while she was pregnant at a time when there were no direct flights and when you had to get a Yellow Fever shot to go to Africa (very bad during pregnancy).
Then, if she gave birth in Kenya, there would be a record of her arriving in Kenya (no such record), a record of her giving birth in Kenya (nothing), and a record of the child being given a US visa to go from Kenya to Hawaii (nothing) or that his mother's passport was amended in Kenya to include him (nothing). There are no documents showing that Obama's mother went to Kenya or gave birth in Kenya.
The Kenyan grandmother of Obama DID NOT say that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii. Listen to the complete tape, particularly to the answer to the question "Whereabouts was he born?" Here is the complete tape on Bert's website. http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3
If that is too difficult to listen to, here is a transcript. http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf
There are Hawaii government records showing that Obama was born in Hawaii and they have been confirmed by the two officials who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it, and a spokewoman for the Department of Health then said that the finding of an original birth certificate means that Obama was born in Hawaii. http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
And there is a woman who remembers Obama's birth in Hawaii. http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html
Posted by: smrstrauss at July 16, 2009 01:48 PM (2SDaf)
3
No it isn't. He was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows. (the Certification of Live Birth is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii.) http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html
The simple way to put all this to rest is to release the original birth certificate. Why has BHO spent $millions to prevent that?
The simple way to put all this to rest is to release the original birth certificate. Why has BHO spent $millions to prevent that?
Posted by: diogenes online at July 16, 2009 02:13 PM (2MrBP)
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To diogenes online: Because BO DOES NOT LIKE TO BE TOLD What to do. For him there are 2 sets of rules. His and His. That's what liars do!
Posted by: terri at July 16, 2009 03:01 PM (IoOoM)
5
We are not interested in other people who have gone to great length to fabricate excuses for BO's failure to provide documentation of his birth! It's time for BO to man up, his boss, the US Citizens, demand he provides this simple document!
Posted by: WestWright at July 16, 2009 03:11 PM (cJRPh)
6
Interesting that the nativeborncitizen website only sprung up in February and appears to be entirely devoted to opposing question about Obama's birth status.
It's probably a good thing there's no smell-o-vision on the intartubz because that site looks rank.
It's probably a good thing there's no smell-o-vision on the intartubz because that site looks rank.
Posted by: ThomasD at July 16, 2009 03:54 PM (21H5U)
7
two officials of the state who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it
Wonderful, so all Obama has to do is request Hawaii release a certified copy of the original document and all this goes away. B
But he won't do that, wonder why?
Wonderful, so all Obama has to do is request Hawaii release a certified copy of the original document and all this goes away. B
But he won't do that, wonder why?
Posted by: Notyou at July 16, 2009 03:57 PM (21H5U)
8
Obama doesn't want the true certificate released because it shows who his real father is and that would be an embarrassment to himself & his mothers memory.
Posted by: answers at July 16, 2009 04:28 PM (sj3KL)
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smrstrauss, I read your link. The 2 Hawaiian officials who say they have seen the b.c. only said they have a birth certificate, they did not say what the birth certificate shows. The author of your link and some other person who has not herself seen the b.c. extrapolated that what the 2 Hawaii officials saw was the proof of him being born in Hawaii. If that's what the 2 officials have, then why didn't they say so themselves? And again, why didn't Obama release the original long form birth cert. himself. Saying there are no docs re: his mother and Kenya is proof of nothing. There may be docs. there may not be. If the country was not good a record keeping or if Obama, his relatives, his friend Odinga decided to get rid of docs. Maybe there are no docs. because no one is really interested in finding them - kind of like there is no original birth certificate released to the public either.
Posted by: Jayne at July 16, 2009 04:51 PM (dwIL0)
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While I have my doubts that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii I think it is past time to hammer on him (and the Democrats) to release his Birth Certificate AND his health records.
Obama has a track record of hiding much of his personal information. Voters have a right to know that information, particularly in light of past demands by the Dhimmis to release all Republican candidate records.
So, as far as I am concerned, Obama is an illegitimate POTUS until he releases that original birth certificate.
While I have my doubts that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii I think it is past time to hammer on him (and the Democrats) to release his Birth Certificate AND his health records.
Obama has a track record of hiding much of his personal information. Voters have a right to know that information, particularly in light of past demands by the Dhimmis to release all Republican candidate records.
So, as far as I am concerned, Obama is an illegitimate POTUS until he releases that original birth certificate.
Posted by: iconoclast at July 16, 2009 04:55 PM (eEaHR)
11
Stange behavior for his weird man, B. Hussein Obama. He certainly uses legal shenanigans to avoid showing this very simple document.
There was speculation yesterday that this was the EXACT MOTIVE for the order relieving this Major from deploying. Revoking his orders so that he would have no standing to question Obama.
The MSM can travel to Kinko parking lots for late night meetings with known Democrat loons for fraudulent documents about a non-issue like whether President Bush went to all his Guard meetings but is uninterested in this strange behavior.
For the lazy ObaMO-ORN, if you are going to argue this issue with these people, do try NOT to use documents like the fake certificate which Obama released thru Daily Kos and has been show as a forgery for over a year ago. It makes you look like a imbecile.
I do not know where Obama was born, but at this date it appears that Obama needs to man up and show the requested certificate because a lot of people are confused including:
Every hopital in Hawaii
People of Kenya and Ghana
Obama's step-sister and grandmother
and apparently Obama himself as he has told different audiences that he was born in multiple hospitals in Hawaii.
But I do not think that at this point the certificate will see the light of day for multiple reasons:
1) Obama was born in Hawaii, only it shows that his bat-crazy mother had no idea who his father really was or that the father is someone which would cast an ugly shadow on either Obama's story or his family? I am not going to speculate but his mentor Frank Marshall Davis was convicted as a pedophile.
2) Obama was born in Kenya, in which case the results are very ugly because it would destroy not only Obama but the entire Democratic party because they knowingly perpetuated a fraud on the American public. Also going down would be the entire MSM media complex because they either have been aware of the fraud and covered it up, or they FAILED miserably in their supposed duty. All their privilege and status is supposedly because they are to protect the American public from just such an occurrence. And it would nearly kill the entire government because NONE of them stood up for the Constitution or the American people.
The certificate will NEVER be seen.
I personally think it is #1. We know that Obama's mother was a loon plus Obama has his life story he has created and nothing can upset that story. A good clue is why is he so devoted to a miserable man like B. Hussein Obama, Sr. whom he never met until he was 12 and very seldom interacted with. It is like his "community organizing" nonsense. He quit that 20 years ago, but he acted like that had been his life work. Hardly, he is really a nut.
There was speculation yesterday that this was the EXACT MOTIVE for the order relieving this Major from deploying. Revoking his orders so that he would have no standing to question Obama.
The MSM can travel to Kinko parking lots for late night meetings with known Democrat loons for fraudulent documents about a non-issue like whether President Bush went to all his Guard meetings but is uninterested in this strange behavior.
For the lazy ObaMO-ORN, if you are going to argue this issue with these people, do try NOT to use documents like the fake certificate which Obama released thru Daily Kos and has been show as a forgery for over a year ago. It makes you look like a imbecile.
I do not know where Obama was born, but at this date it appears that Obama needs to man up and show the requested certificate because a lot of people are confused including:
Every hopital in Hawaii
People of Kenya and Ghana
Obama's step-sister and grandmother
and apparently Obama himself as he has told different audiences that he was born in multiple hospitals in Hawaii.
But I do not think that at this point the certificate will see the light of day for multiple reasons:
1) Obama was born in Hawaii, only it shows that his bat-crazy mother had no idea who his father really was or that the father is someone which would cast an ugly shadow on either Obama's story or his family? I am not going to speculate but his mentor Frank Marshall Davis was convicted as a pedophile.
2) Obama was born in Kenya, in which case the results are very ugly because it would destroy not only Obama but the entire Democratic party because they knowingly perpetuated a fraud on the American public. Also going down would be the entire MSM media complex because they either have been aware of the fraud and covered it up, or they FAILED miserably in their supposed duty. All their privilege and status is supposedly because they are to protect the American public from just such an occurrence. And it would nearly kill the entire government because NONE of them stood up for the Constitution or the American people.
The certificate will NEVER be seen.
I personally think it is #1. We know that Obama's mother was a loon plus Obama has his life story he has created and nothing can upset that story. A good clue is why is he so devoted to a miserable man like B. Hussein Obama, Sr. whom he never met until he was 12 and very seldom interacted with. It is like his "community organizing" nonsense. He quit that 20 years ago, but he acted like that had been his life work. Hardly, he is really a nut.
Posted by: LogicalSC at July 16, 2009 04:57 PM (92KrJ)
12
"...two officials of the state who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it, and this statement was confirmed to be a declaration that Obama was born in Hawaii..."
So if I file a copy of my California birth certificate in Hawaii's vault, and two guys look and say "yes it is there", their statement is a declaration that I was born in Hawaii?
So if I file a copy of my California birth certificate in Hawaii's vault, and two guys look and say "yes it is there", their statement is a declaration that I was born in Hawaii?
Posted by: Why the rigamarole? at July 16, 2009 05:13 PM (LKkZ7)
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"Obama doesn't want the true certificate released because it shows who his real father is and that would be an embarrassment to himself & his mothers memory."
Given the verifiable whoppers Obama tells to the American public (and, especially, to his own supporters) each and every day, I'd say His Obamian Radiance is waaaaaaaaaay past any residual sense of "embarrassment."
Given the verifiable whoppers Obama tells to the American public (and, especially, to his own supporters) each and every day, I'd say His Obamian Radiance is waaaaaaaaaay past any residual sense of "embarrassment."
Posted by: MarkJ at July 16, 2009 05:20 PM (ZFVlP)
14
So if he has a legitimate COLB why spend $800,000 on attorneys fighting having to release the original? If Bush were the one doing this the left would be screaming from the housetops and every State run media outlet would be demanding the original. What an amazing double standard coming out of the left now that their guy is in the White House. Real Americans are not fooled by this subterfuge.
Posted by: Dave at July 16, 2009 05:32 PM (S3Rd3)
15
I think there is reasonable skepticism over the issue here, whether or not Barry al Hussein is a NBC. He probably is but it's not in any way certain.
At the time of his birth, Hawaii had only been a state for two years and in a sort of "grandfathering" way, Hawaii allowed babies not actually born in Hawaii to have Hawaiian births registered in............. Hawaii. I know it's a bit strange but true.
At the time of his birth, Hawaii had only been a state for two years and in a sort of "grandfathering" way, Hawaii allowed babies not actually born in Hawaii to have Hawaiian births registered in............. Hawaii. I know it's a bit strange but true.
Posted by: bet at July 16, 2009 05:34 PM (HH3AB)
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Obama was born in Hawaii. How do you explain the TWO birth notices in the newspapers days after he was born?
One in the Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and one in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day. They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."
But here's the thing. Newspaper officials confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.
As one write points out:
"That's not the kind of stuff a family member calls in and says, 'Hey, can you put this in?'"
Take a second and think about that. In order to phony those notices up, it would have required the complicity of the state Health Department and two independent newspapers - on the off chance this unnamed [minority] child might want to one day be president of the United States.
You have to be nuts to think there was this kind of conspiracy going on.
One in the Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and one in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day. They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."
But here's the thing. Newspaper officials confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.
As one write points out:
"That's not the kind of stuff a family member calls in and says, 'Hey, can you put this in?'"
Take a second and think about that. In order to phony those notices up, it would have required the complicity of the state Health Department and two independent newspapers - on the off chance this unnamed [minority] child might want to one day be president of the United States.
You have to be nuts to think there was this kind of conspiracy going on.
Posted by: Moderate at July 16, 2009 05:34 PM (0be2X)
17
The document released by Obama was not a " Birth certificate". It was a certification of live birth which could have been obtained by simply reporting the birth to local officials. Many babies were born at home with midwives and in many cases these births went unreported for months. Kenya doesn't have records of Obama's mom arriving in 1959? Shock. I suppose whoever posted that does not know anything about 1959 Africa and the "methodical" record keeping. Obama could have ended every lawsuit last August by simply submitting a valid birth certificate and asking for dismisal. Instead he has spent millions fighting 13 suits with legalese and technicality.
Posted by: Dennis D at July 16, 2009 05:44 PM (EbvWp)
18
Moderate:
Very strange person you voted in to the most powerful office in the world. He can't recall where he was born exactly and likes to spend millions of dollars to hide this very simple document? Why? Any guesses?
See my earlier post, I think it because it shows that his mentally ill mother either was uncertain of the father or it contained a very unpleasant fact about his father.
Can be solved with $15? Let's see $800K or $15 dollars? How much charity could that 800K have paid for in some of the horrible areas which Obama has represented for the past 10 years? Why waste in on such shenanigans when real "poor" people could be helped with $800K? I thought Obama was the "One" we have been waiting on? He was going to lower the seas and freeze the
icebergs? Hell he could have sent it to his destitute half-brother in Kenya?
Like I said, a real winner YOU voted for there.
Very strange person you voted in to the most powerful office in the world. He can't recall where he was born exactly and likes to spend millions of dollars to hide this very simple document? Why? Any guesses?
See my earlier post, I think it because it shows that his mentally ill mother either was uncertain of the father or it contained a very unpleasant fact about his father.
Can be solved with $15? Let's see $800K or $15 dollars? How much charity could that 800K have paid for in some of the horrible areas which Obama has represented for the past 10 years? Why waste in on such shenanigans when real "poor" people could be helped with $800K? I thought Obama was the "One" we have been waiting on? He was going to lower the seas and freeze the
icebergs? Hell he could have sent it to his destitute half-brother in Kenya?
Like I said, a real winner YOU voted for there.
Posted by: SClanding at July 16, 2009 05:45 PM (92KrJ)
19
Moderate-
It's pretty telling that nobody's been able to give an explanation for why BO spent bookoo bucks to avoid showing a certified copy of his orginal birth certificate. A certified copy-- not the "certification of live birth" which has a list as long as my arm of reasons it can be edited, including adoption, born elsewhere to a HA resident and sex change-- of his actual birth certificate would be ten bucks. Line out a few things if ya must, and BOOM-- problem solved.
Also telling is that the only folks brining up Kenya are the ones saying it's silly. There ARE other ways his citizenship could be screwed by this other than being born in Kenya....
Oh, and you might want to look into the varying stories on which hospital BO was born in. ^.^
It's pretty telling that nobody's been able to give an explanation for why BO spent bookoo bucks to avoid showing a certified copy of his orginal birth certificate. A certified copy-- not the "certification of live birth" which has a list as long as my arm of reasons it can be edited, including adoption, born elsewhere to a HA resident and sex change-- of his actual birth certificate would be ten bucks. Line out a few things if ya must, and BOOM-- problem solved.
Also telling is that the only folks brining up Kenya are the ones saying it's silly. There ARE other ways his citizenship could be screwed by this other than being born in Kenya....
Oh, and you might want to look into the varying stories on which hospital BO was born in. ^.^
Posted by: Foxfier at July 16, 2009 05:49 PM (Y1xbZ)
20
"Re: "Obama's citizenship is still open to question."
No it isn't. He was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows. (the Certification of Live Birth is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii.) http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html"
His citizenship is not what’s in question.
What is in question is his Eligibility/ Qualifications to be POTUS based on the “Founding Fathers” original intent for POTUS.
This was the guild line chosen by the left to go after McCain’s Eligibility/ Qualifications to be POTUS. Should no problem for anyone on the left, yes?
So what were the “Founding Fathers” original intent for POTUS.
The person must be “natural-born citizen."
A natural-born citizen." Was someone born in the USA to American parents. This was modified in 1790 to include children born of American parents who may be overseas or in territories that are not part of the USA circa 1790.
It is clear that the “Founding Fathers” wanted to make certain that whoever was president would be loyal to the U.S. alone and not to some other country.
This is why the BOTH parents, mother AND father MUST be American citizens.
Only Obama’s mother was an American citizen, his FATHER was a citizen of Kenya.
Thank god Obama who’s father was a citizen of Kenya hasn’t said something stupid like “I’m a citizen of the world, not just America”
Cuz if he had it could make this whole 'natural born' issue go badly for Obama.
He would have proven the “Founding Fathers” correct.
No it isn't. He was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows. (the Certification of Live Birth is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii.) http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html"
His citizenship is not what’s in question.
What is in question is his Eligibility/ Qualifications to be POTUS based on the “Founding Fathers” original intent for POTUS.
This was the guild line chosen by the left to go after McCain’s Eligibility/ Qualifications to be POTUS. Should no problem for anyone on the left, yes?
So what were the “Founding Fathers” original intent for POTUS.
The person must be “natural-born citizen."
A natural-born citizen." Was someone born in the USA to American parents. This was modified in 1790 to include children born of American parents who may be overseas or in territories that are not part of the USA circa 1790.
It is clear that the “Founding Fathers” wanted to make certain that whoever was president would be loyal to the U.S. alone and not to some other country.
This is why the BOTH parents, mother AND father MUST be American citizens.
Only Obama’s mother was an American citizen, his FATHER was a citizen of Kenya.
Thank god Obama who’s father was a citizen of Kenya hasn’t said something stupid like “I’m a citizen of the world, not just America”
Cuz if he had it could make this whole 'natural born' issue go badly for Obama.
He would have proven the “Founding Fathers” correct.
Posted by: Dschoen at July 16, 2009 09:04 PM (KaDfM)
21
"It certainly appears that his only motive for "volunteering" was to create the opportunity to file his suit."
Ah yes the nutcase conspiracy
Lets see, Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook
Army Major (O-4)? Hum so he completed 4 years of collage, at lest 10 years of active duty military experience just to embarrass Obama.
Really? How did he know before 1995 that Obama would be POTUS?
“his only motive for "volunteering"”
"In fact, one thing that I have noticed. . . is that all of these conspiracy theories depend on the perpetrators being endlessly clever. I think you'll find the facts also work if you assume everyone is endlessly stupid."
Brian Moore
Ah yes the nutcase conspiracy
Lets see, Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook
Army Major (O-4)? Hum so he completed 4 years of collage, at lest 10 years of active duty military experience just to embarrass Obama.
Really? How did he know before 1995 that Obama would be POTUS?
“his only motive for "volunteering"”
"In fact, one thing that I have noticed. . . is that all of these conspiracy theories depend on the perpetrators being endlessly clever. I think you'll find the facts also work if you assume everyone is endlessly stupid."
Brian Moore
Posted by: Dschoen at July 16, 2009 09:34 PM (KaDfM)
22
Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen?
Neither was McCain. McCain was born outside the US.
Obama was born in the US, and is a citizen under the 14th (which did not redefine "natural-born citizen") and is a citizen, but he is/was (?) a duel national, therefore not a "natural-born citizen".
Neither was McCain. McCain was born outside the US.
Obama was born in the US, and is a citizen under the 14th (which did not redefine "natural-born citizen") and is a citizen, but he is/was (?) a duel national, therefore not a "natural-born citizen".
Posted by: Druid at July 16, 2009 09:48 PM (L0xB8)
23
I see now that 'Dschoen' hit it already.
Posted by: Druid at July 16, 2009 09:52 PM (L0xB8)
24
"two officials of the state who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it"
"Wonderful, so all Obama has to do is request Hawaii release a certified copy of the original document and all this goes away. B
But he won't do that, wonder why?"
Because his birth certificate will list his father as a citizen of Kenya.
The birth certificate is a LEGAL document.
Without that LEGAL document you can’t PROVE Obama’s father was a citizen of Kenya, even though Obama claims that his father was a citizen of Kenya.
This is the legal area of what the “meaning of “is” is”.
And if it were proven his father was not a US citizen WHEN Obama was born, then Obama is not Eligible /Qualified to be POTUS.
It is clear that the “Founding Fathers” wanted to make certain that whoever was president would be loyal to the U.S. alone and not to some other country.
This is why the BOTH parents, mother AND father MUST be American citizens.
Don’t be sidelined by the “is/was Hawaii a state” when Obama was born, that has NOTHING to do with it.
Notice: "two officials of the state who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it"
Great there was/is a original birth certificate, what all does it list as per Obama’s father?
"Wonderful, so all Obama has to do is request Hawaii release a certified copy of the original document and all this goes away. B
But he won't do that, wonder why?"
Because his birth certificate will list his father as a citizen of Kenya.
The birth certificate is a LEGAL document.
Without that LEGAL document you can’t PROVE Obama’s father was a citizen of Kenya, even though Obama claims that his father was a citizen of Kenya.
This is the legal area of what the “meaning of “is” is”.
And if it were proven his father was not a US citizen WHEN Obama was born, then Obama is not Eligible /Qualified to be POTUS.
It is clear that the “Founding Fathers” wanted to make certain that whoever was president would be loyal to the U.S. alone and not to some other country.
This is why the BOTH parents, mother AND father MUST be American citizens.
Don’t be sidelined by the “is/was Hawaii a state” when Obama was born, that has NOTHING to do with it.
Notice: "two officials of the state who looked into the file and said that there was an original birth certificate in it"
Great there was/is a original birth certificate, what all does it list as per Obama’s father?
Posted by: Dschoen at July 16, 2009 10:06 PM (KaDfM)
25
This is one of the stories that you want to look away from but can't.
Posted by: Mark E at July 16, 2009 10:30 PM (uG3yt)
26
Dschoen,
Where did you get your definition of 'natural born citizen'?
I got mine from 8th grade civics class about 25+ years ago.
Where did you get your definition of 'natural born citizen'?
I got mine from 8th grade civics class about 25+ years ago.
Posted by: Druid at July 16, 2009 10:34 PM (L0xB8)
27
"Neither was McCain. McCain was born outside the US."
McCain was born to two American citizens (and they were married to each other) stationed in a US territory (on behave of the USA Government).
There was a correction in 1790 (by the ORIGINAL Founding Fathers) to add children who’s parents (Note: plural as in BOTH parents) were American citizens were natural-born citizen.
Further clarification dealing specifically with Panama was passed in 1936 to make it absolutely clear that any child born of American citizens were natural-born citizen from 1904 to 1999 when we left Panama.
What was not address by the Founding Fathers was if a bastard could be POTUS.
Bastard in the legal sense, as in the parents were not married or married to other people, both would be the case with Obama.
His Mother was not married to his father and his father was, at the time Obama was conceived and born, married to someone else.
McCain was born to two American citizens (and they were married to each other) stationed in a US territory (on behave of the USA Government).
There was a correction in 1790 (by the ORIGINAL Founding Fathers) to add children who’s parents (Note: plural as in BOTH parents) were American citizens were natural-born citizen.
Further clarification dealing specifically with Panama was passed in 1936 to make it absolutely clear that any child born of American citizens were natural-born citizen from 1904 to 1999 when we left Panama.
What was not address by the Founding Fathers was if a bastard could be POTUS.
Bastard in the legal sense, as in the parents were not married or married to other people, both would be the case with Obama.
His Mother was not married to his father and his father was, at the time Obama was conceived and born, married to someone else.
Posted by: Dschoen at July 16, 2009 10:35 PM (KaDfM)
28
"Where did you get your definition of 'natural born citizen'?
I got mine from 8th grade civics class about 25+ years ago.
Posted by: Druid at July 16, 2009 10:34 PM"
Mainly from what the left chose to use against McCain. The EXACT wording of the Founding Fathers.
And by simply looking it up, I got access to the internet ya know.
If you want an eye opener search on “McCain is not a 'natural born citizen'
You will find the NYT, NBC CNN going into excruciating detail as to the EXACT definition of 'natural born citizen' excluding anything that makes their claim false. like the 1790 law i mentioned.
McCain's eligibility is disputed by professor - The New York Times
In the most detailed examination yet of Senator John McCain's eligibility to be president, a law professor at the University of Arizona has concluded that ...
www.nytimes.com/2008/.../11iht-11mccain.14411311.html
Is McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"?
McCain's Eligibility to Be President Is Disputed by Professor, we learn of a serious argument against McCain's eligibility. The analysis, by Prof. ...
www.uslaw.com/law_blogs/?item=190304
PDF]
THE JUSTICIABILITY OF ELIGIBILITY: MAY COURTS DECIDE WHO CAN BE ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat -
Sep 30, 2008 ... Three cases have challenged McCain's eligibility on the ground that he ..... Yet none of the Justices disputed that state ...
www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/tokaji.pdf
Oh that 1790 law reads something like this
Notably, in 1790, Congress felt it was necessary to pass a law that defined naturalized citizens. The First Congress passed An Act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, providing:
And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been residents in the United States … .
I got mine from 8th grade civics class about 25+ years ago.
Posted by: Druid at July 16, 2009 10:34 PM"
Mainly from what the left chose to use against McCain. The EXACT wording of the Founding Fathers.
And by simply looking it up, I got access to the internet ya know.
If you want an eye opener search on “McCain is not a 'natural born citizen'
You will find the NYT, NBC CNN going into excruciating detail as to the EXACT definition of 'natural born citizen' excluding anything that makes their claim false. like the 1790 law i mentioned.
McCain's eligibility is disputed by professor - The New York Times
In the most detailed examination yet of Senator John McCain's eligibility to be president, a law professor at the University of Arizona has concluded that ...
www.nytimes.com/2008/.../11iht-11mccain.14411311.html
Is McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"?
McCain's Eligibility to Be President Is Disputed by Professor, we learn of a serious argument against McCain's eligibility. The analysis, by Prof. ...
www.uslaw.com/law_blogs/?item=190304
PDF]
THE JUSTICIABILITY OF ELIGIBILITY: MAY COURTS DECIDE WHO CAN BE ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat -
Sep 30, 2008 ... Three cases have challenged McCain's eligibility on the ground that he ..... Yet none of the Justices disputed that state ...
www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/tokaji.pdf
Oh that 1790 law reads something like this
Notably, in 1790, Congress felt it was necessary to pass a law that defined naturalized citizens. The First Congress passed An Act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, providing:
And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been residents in the United States … .
Posted by: Dschoen at July 16, 2009 10:58 PM (KaDfM)
29
Dschoen,
I have seen that 1790 cite before. It used to be posted at the State Dept.
I doubt the Founding Fathers thought 'natural born' included duel nationals, especially British-US, when they had to give themselves a grandfather clause.
I have seen that 1790 cite before. It used to be posted at the State Dept.
I doubt the Founding Fathers thought 'natural born' included duel nationals, especially British-US, when they had to give themselves a grandfather clause.
Posted by: Druid at July 16, 2009 11:31 PM (L0xB8)
30
Posted by: Druid at July 16, 2009 09:48 PM
By long-standing legal tradition, the children of diplomats and soldiers are always citizens of their home country. As both of McCain's parents were US citizens, there at the Gov'ts request, he would still qualify as a natural-born citizen. There's a great big paper on it out there somewhere, I managed to lose the page last time I crashed.
By long-standing legal tradition, the children of diplomats and soldiers are always citizens of their home country. As both of McCain's parents were US citizens, there at the Gov'ts request, he would still qualify as a natural-born citizen. There's a great big paper on it out there somewhere, I managed to lose the page last time I crashed.
Posted by: Foxfier at July 17, 2009 12:37 AM (Y1xbZ)
31
I'm curious about the transition between Barry Soetero and Barak Obama.
My wife was adopted by her mom's second husband. When my wife got divorced from her first husband she wanted to change her name back to match with her real dad's. She ended up having to do a legal name change with the court.
So, is there a newspaper record of Barry Soetoro wishing to change his name to Barak Obama?
My wife was adopted by her mom's second husband. When my wife got divorced from her first husband she wanted to change her name back to match with her real dad's. She ended up having to do a legal name change with the court.
So, is there a newspaper record of Barry Soetoro wishing to change his name to Barak Obama?
Posted by: Pinandpuller at July 17, 2009 01:30 AM (VU8PU)
32
It's not because he's embarrassed to show who his real father is. He could request from Hawaii right now a COLB which verifies ONLY his name and his birth place.
He posted a forgery, with a seal that doesn't bend when the paper it's on folds, on a paper which loses only one line of print when photographed sideways, and a raised surface shown in relief which wouldn't show up with edge detection when posted elsewhere.
The fact that Factcheck used a document other than Obama's to show the relief of the seal shows that they didn't have ANY authentic COLB of Obama's, or they would have just used his authentic image of the seal.
I'd bet good money that he has never requested a COLB from Hawaii because he doesn't want to give anybody there an excuse to look at anything.
He posted a forgery, with a seal that doesn't bend when the paper it's on folds, on a paper which loses only one line of print when photographed sideways, and a raised surface shown in relief which wouldn't show up with edge detection when posted elsewhere.
The fact that Factcheck used a document other than Obama's to show the relief of the seal shows that they didn't have ANY authentic COLB of Obama's, or they would have just used his authentic image of the seal.
I'd bet good money that he has never requested a COLB from Hawaii because he doesn't want to give anybody there an excuse to look at anything.
Posted by: Nellie at July 17, 2009 08:14 AM (KZZsN)
33
BHO does not want to release the original birth certificate because it might put his life in danger. At least, that is my theory.
Obama has been a practicing Christian for many years -- in a church where you have to profess faith to belong, not one that you are there because your parents were Christian. My bet is that his Muslim daddy listed "Islam" as BHO's religion on the long-form birth certificate.
Someone born a Christian or Jew is an infidel in the eyes of Islam. They are People of the Book, who while they can be treated as second-class citizens, have certain rights.
Someone who *was* Muslim who changes to another faith does not -- even those of the Book -- however do not. THey are apostates. Fair game for any devout Muslim to kill. Gets you extra raisins in paradise.
While BHO is naive, he ain't stupid. Dissing Christians about being bitter clingers is safe. Getting Muslim crazies chasing you ain't. So the long form stays hid.
Obama has been a practicing Christian for many years -- in a church where you have to profess faith to belong, not one that you are there because your parents were Christian. My bet is that his Muslim daddy listed "Islam" as BHO's religion on the long-form birth certificate.
Someone born a Christian or Jew is an infidel in the eyes of Islam. They are People of the Book, who while they can be treated as second-class citizens, have certain rights.
Someone who *was* Muslim who changes to another faith does not -- even those of the Book -- however do not. THey are apostates. Fair game for any devout Muslim to kill. Gets you extra raisins in paradise.
While BHO is naive, he ain't stupid. Dissing Christians about being bitter clingers is safe. Getting Muslim crazies chasing you ain't. So the long form stays hid.
Posted by: Mark L at July 17, 2009 09:08 AM (bWB5j)
34
Dschoen, it is largely for fairness' sake that I originally gave any credence to this tack, given the examination of McCain which you have summarized so completely. Yes, we all got a bit of an education there especially as I was praying that McCain would be technically disqualified. But with events it seems things factually are moving the Birthers' way. The birth announcements mentioned above seem to be more suspicious in themselves than dispositive of Barry's case. "Mr and Mrs Barak Obama"? As others mention, there was no marriage, right? Then the birth announcements are, we know, erroneous at least in that. Of course we could understand some polite fictions being applied in that era and the announcements in the local paper may be a fit place for such fictions but the courthouse is not. Vital records are called that because they are vital. And we would hope that gub officials would take that seriously but what are the odds, as we know HI was just recently a state and had some creative, we might say "progressive" approaches to governing, what are the odds that there was some effort made in some cases to extend the benefits of citizenship to those who might not, technically qualify? Does this ever happen? Is the INS ever, today, a bit remiss here and there explicitly to help people who might "fall through the cracks" into US citizenship? It does have its benefits. And if such a thing were done it was not done once so officials who made these under-the-desk maneuvers are now in a pickle. No one incident of record doctoring can be exposed without bringing down the whole edifice with firings, deportations, disposessions and perhaps even criminal charges being the result of this deluge. So those who dismiss this as absurdist conspiracy theories should recognize that there is no need for a cultish society with secret handshakes for large numbers of people to act in concert and nefariously. Especially when their actions were, as they say, well intentioned.
Posted by: megapotamus at July 17, 2009 09:35 AM (UVkVE)
35
Interesting take, Mark L. Only thing is, it's okay for a Muslim to practice taqiyya - to only pretend to have left Islam for the sake of furthering Islam, for instance. In fact, one of the terror leaders has outright said that they will use people who've been sitting in Christian churches for years and years to perform their next attack.
Jeremiah Wright's church, with its Black Liberation Theology and very friendly relations with Louis Farrakhan, Black Panthers, etc is about as close as a person come to being Muslim while sitting in a "Christian" church.
And abroad, Muslims say that Obama is a Muslim. I've read that his connections when he visited Pakistan right before he came back with new purpose as Barack Obama instead of Barry Soetoro were with people connected to radical Islam. The fact that these people have NOT called for his death suggests to me that they believe he is practicing taqiyya.
Food for thought. Who knows if we'll ever know.
Jeremiah Wright's church, with its Black Liberation Theology and very friendly relations with Louis Farrakhan, Black Panthers, etc is about as close as a person come to being Muslim while sitting in a "Christian" church.
And abroad, Muslims say that Obama is a Muslim. I've read that his connections when he visited Pakistan right before he came back with new purpose as Barack Obama instead of Barry Soetoro were with people connected to radical Islam. The fact that these people have NOT called for his death suggests to me that they believe he is practicing taqiyya.
Food for thought. Who knows if we'll ever know.
Posted by: Nellie at July 17, 2009 10:05 AM (KZZsN)
36
Couple of points:
1. A Full birth certificate from Hawaii from that era does not contain any information about religious affiliation. So it doesn't show Obama a s a muslim or anything.
2. The newspaper announcement only indicates that the govt. had some type of paperwork issued which triggered the newspaper announcement.
3. In Hawaii of that era, you could be born elsewhere and get a certificate of live birth based on sworn statement. ie. you didn't HAVE to be born there, just claim that you were.
4. Barry was adopted and moved to Indonesia. If he had dual citizenship (US/UK) then he would have had to give it up to be in Indonesia. Thus he was no longer a US citizen.
5. He never applied for us citizenship when he returned to the US...
6. He obtained school scholarships as a foreign student in the late 70's early 80s.
7. Doubt exists, he needs to clear it up but won't. And it will NEVER be released because there are too many interested parties that need to cover their asses.
1. A Full birth certificate from Hawaii from that era does not contain any information about religious affiliation. So it doesn't show Obama a s a muslim or anything.
2. The newspaper announcement only indicates that the govt. had some type of paperwork issued which triggered the newspaper announcement.
3. In Hawaii of that era, you could be born elsewhere and get a certificate of live birth based on sworn statement. ie. you didn't HAVE to be born there, just claim that you were.
4. Barry was adopted and moved to Indonesia. If he had dual citizenship (US/UK) then he would have had to give it up to be in Indonesia. Thus he was no longer a US citizen.
5. He never applied for us citizenship when he returned to the US...
6. He obtained school scholarships as a foreign student in the late 70's early 80s.
7. Doubt exists, he needs to clear it up but won't. And it will NEVER be released because there are too many interested parties that need to cover their asses.
Posted by: Cro at July 17, 2009 10:18 AM (q6MO3)
37
CYA is going to kill this nation unless we find a way to make the law matter. Every time I look at John Murtha I want to barf. He's got a mighty big ass to cover, but Pelosi manages to do it.
Posted by: Nellie at July 17, 2009 10:56 AM (KZZsN)
38
Bob, if you're reading this - it had been a while since I'd been here. Do you have a little one now? I was so happy when you first announced the pregnancy. I've lost a child to miscarriage and to full-term stillbirth so I'm a little afraid to ask because I know it can be painful if something happened. Hopefully everything is fine. =)
Posted by: Nellie at July 17, 2009 02:22 PM (KZZsN)
39
LogicalSC wrote "I am not going to speculate but his mentor Frank Marshall Davis was convicted as a pedophile."
This is worse than speculation. It is an outright lie. Davis was never arrested, much less convicted, as a pedophile. Nor was he Obama's "mentor." It appears that you swallow Kincaid's Konservative Kool-Aid propaganda regarding the Davis-Obama relationship. "Dreams From My Father" belies that claim.
Although Obama's book indicates "Frank" was a family friend who offered him advice on racial issues, Obama wrote that Davis "fell short" and his views were "incurable." Obama did not even visit Davis for three years before going to college. Obama's book, itself, proves that Obama did not consider Davis to be a "wise and trusted counselor," which is the definition of "mentor." By what creative definition can Davis be considered his "mentor"?
It is unfortunate that estates of the deceased cannot sue for slander in the United States.
"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander." - Abraham Lincoln
This is worse than speculation. It is an outright lie. Davis was never arrested, much less convicted, as a pedophile. Nor was he Obama's "mentor." It appears that you swallow Kincaid's Konservative Kool-Aid propaganda regarding the Davis-Obama relationship. "Dreams From My Father" belies that claim.
Although Obama's book indicates "Frank" was a family friend who offered him advice on racial issues, Obama wrote that Davis "fell short" and his views were "incurable." Obama did not even visit Davis for three years before going to college. Obama's book, itself, proves that Obama did not consider Davis to be a "wise and trusted counselor," which is the definition of "mentor." By what creative definition can Davis be considered his "mentor"?
It is unfortunate that estates of the deceased cannot sue for slander in the United States.
"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander." - Abraham Lincoln
Posted by: Kaleokualoha at July 17, 2009 03:07 PM (X2knc)
40
KALEOKUALOHA...The mentor, Frank Davis, definitely was a pornographer and a sexual deviant. See U K Telegraph story link below for the disgusting details of this man so influential in Obama's life. (Although it does not indicate that Davis was in trouble with the law over his pornography).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/2601914/Frank-Marshall-Davis-alleged-Communist-was-early-influence-on-Barack-Obama.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/2601914/Frank-Marshall-Davis-alleged-Communist-was-early-influence-on-Barack-Obama.html
Posted by: Jayne at July 17, 2009 04:24 PM (dwIL0)
41
While I am as disturbed as anyone to learn that there is no system in place to ensure that only those eligible to be president are sworn in as president (and there's plenty of time to do it between the election and the inauguration), it can't possibly be the case that a president has to satisfy each and every objecting person to their own satisfaction.
If the State of Hawaii is satisfied that Obama was born in Hawaii, then the federal government should be satisfied that Obama was born in Hawaii.
Nothing else makes sense.
If the State of Hawaii is satisfied that Obama was born in Hawaii, then the federal government should be satisfied that Obama was born in Hawaii.
Nothing else makes sense.
Posted by: tim maguire at July 17, 2009 04:32 PM (ISLWX)
42
Also, Kaleokualoha, this is from the UK Telegraph article. "In his memoir, Mr Obama recounts how he visited Mr Davis on several occasions, apparently at junctures when he was grappling with racial issues, to seek his counsel"
So Obama sought his counsel, that would qualify as mentoring.
So Obama sought his counsel, that would qualify as mentoring.
Posted by: Jayne at July 17, 2009 04:32 PM (dwIL0)
43
Tim McGuire, shall we just look to the somebody in Hawaii to speak for all Constitutional issues?
Posted by: Jayne at July 17, 2009 04:34 PM (dwIL0)
44
Jayne, you're being absurd. Do you really think that follows from my comment?
Posted by: tim maguire at July 17, 2009 04:47 PM (ISLWX)
45
JAYNE WROTE: "So Obama sought his counsel, that would qualify as mentoring."
RESPONSE: Sorry, Jayne, not all counseling is mentoring. Many people counsel, but few are mentors. A mentor is a TRUSTED counselor. If the counsel is not trusted, it is not mentoring, by definition.
JAYNE WROTE: "The mentor, Frank Davis, definitely was a pornographer and a sexual deviant."
RESPONSE: He was a pornographer, but there is no evidence that he was a sexual deviant, much less a convicted pedophile as claimed by LogicalSC. If you examine primary source evidence, rather than disinformation from sources such as Kincaid and the Telegraph, you will find that such accusations are without merit.
Calling Davis a pedophile based on his novel makes no more sense than calling David Letterman a pedophile based on his joke. Both lies are widespread in the right-wing blogosphere, and reflect the pinnacle of intellectual dishonesty. Both deliberately misrepresent the core values of artists by spreading falsehoods that gullible readers (i.e., "useful idiots") accept as truth, and who then propagate further in good faith.
The pornography disinformation against Frank Marshall Davis is just as heinous as the political disinformation. At a minimum, it indicates a cognitive disorder manifested by an inability to distinguish fact from fiction, in the manner of soap opera fans who blame actors for their characters' misdeeds. Further, it suggests that those making such false accusations may be projecting their own libidinous psychological disorders onto Davis.
RESPONSE: Sorry, Jayne, not all counseling is mentoring. Many people counsel, but few are mentors. A mentor is a TRUSTED counselor. If the counsel is not trusted, it is not mentoring, by definition.
JAYNE WROTE: "The mentor, Frank Davis, definitely was a pornographer and a sexual deviant."
RESPONSE: He was a pornographer, but there is no evidence that he was a sexual deviant, much less a convicted pedophile as claimed by LogicalSC. If you examine primary source evidence, rather than disinformation from sources such as Kincaid and the Telegraph, you will find that such accusations are without merit.
Calling Davis a pedophile based on his novel makes no more sense than calling David Letterman a pedophile based on his joke. Both lies are widespread in the right-wing blogosphere, and reflect the pinnacle of intellectual dishonesty. Both deliberately misrepresent the core values of artists by spreading falsehoods that gullible readers (i.e., "useful idiots") accept as truth, and who then propagate further in good faith.
The pornography disinformation against Frank Marshall Davis is just as heinous as the political disinformation. At a minimum, it indicates a cognitive disorder manifested by an inability to distinguish fact from fiction, in the manner of soap opera fans who blame actors for their characters' misdeeds. Further, it suggests that those making such false accusations may be projecting their own libidinous psychological disorders onto Davis.
Posted by: Kaleokualoha at July 17, 2009 05:10 PM (X2knc)
46
Good thing this cowardly clown was fired and his case dismissed.
Any soldier who refuses to follow orders based on a dumb conspiracy theory is not fit to serve in our military.
America needs soldiers who actually care about the United States and not about hiding behind some bizarre theory that serves no one except fringe groups.
Any soldier who refuses to follow orders based on a dumb conspiracy theory is not fit to serve in our military.
America needs soldiers who actually care about the United States and not about hiding behind some bizarre theory that serves no one except fringe groups.
Posted by: MD at July 17, 2009 05:53 PM (0be2X)
47
Kaleokualoha, David authored an autobiography--not a novel--called "Sex Rebel: Black," first published in 1968, where he admits the seduction of a 13 year of girl:
One chapter concerns the seduction by Mr Davis and his first wife of a 13-year-old girl called Anne. Mr Davis wrote that it was the girl who had suggested he had sex with her. "I'm not one to go in for Lolitas. Usually I'd rather not bed a babe under 20.
"But there are exceptions. I didn't want to disappoint the trusting child. At her still-impressionistic age, a rejection might be traumatic, could even cripple her sexually for life."
He then described how he and his wife would have sex with the girl. "Anne came up many times the next several weeks, her aunt thinking she was in good hands. Actually she was.
"She obtained a course in practical sex from experienced and considerate practitioners rather than from ignorant insensitive neophytes….I think we did her a favour, although the pleasure was mutual."
Those quotes are from Frank Marshall Davis, acknowledging multiple statutory rapes of one girl barely out of her teens, dozens of times.
You own the board an apology, but as an apologist for a known pedophile, I suspect you lack the integrity.
One chapter concerns the seduction by Mr Davis and his first wife of a 13-year-old girl called Anne. Mr Davis wrote that it was the girl who had suggested he had sex with her. "I'm not one to go in for Lolitas. Usually I'd rather not bed a babe under 20.
"But there are exceptions. I didn't want to disappoint the trusting child. At her still-impressionistic age, a rejection might be traumatic, could even cripple her sexually for life."
He then described how he and his wife would have sex with the girl. "Anne came up many times the next several weeks, her aunt thinking she was in good hands. Actually she was.
"She obtained a course in practical sex from experienced and considerate practitioners rather than from ignorant insensitive neophytes….I think we did her a favour, although the pleasure was mutual."
Those quotes are from Frank Marshall Davis, acknowledging multiple statutory rapes of one girl barely out of her teens, dozens of times.
You own the board an apology, but as an apologist for a known pedophile, I suspect you lack the integrity.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at July 17, 2009 07:44 PM (WjpSC)
48
Apparently, this is his "thing":
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/users/profile/Kaleokualoha?action=comments
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/users/profile/Kaleokualoha?action=comments
Posted by: Foxfier at July 17, 2009 09:25 PM (Y1xbZ)
49
My "thing" is the truth, but you cannot handle the truth. It's a pity that estates of the deceased cannot sue for slander in the United States.
You believe that Gulliver actually met the Lilliputians? He claimed it was true.
You believe that Gulliver actually met the Lilliputians? He claimed it was true.
Posted by: Kaleokualoha at July 17, 2009 09:55 PM (X2knc)
Posted by: Foxfier at July 17, 2009 10:41 PM (Y1xbZ)
51
Tim McGuire, if you are willing to go with someone in Hawaii deciding who meets the qualifications for President without providing any evidence, then why would you draw the line anywhere else? The absurdity is your giving such authority to make that call to a low level government employee.
Posted by: Jayne at July 17, 2009 10:50 PM (dwIL0)
52
Kaleokualoha, you posted a question asking by what "creative definition" can Davis be considered Obama's mentor. And in that same post you define mentor as a wise and trusted counselor. The Telegraph article as well as Obamas's own book tells us that not only did Davis talk at length with Obama about racial relationships and politics, Obama went to him seeking his counsel. It doesn't take creativity to consider that mentoring according to your definition. If Obama did not trust Davis, nor consider him wise, he would not have sought him out without sick old grandpappy around. Your "thing" is not truth - far from it.
Posted by: Jayne at July 17, 2009 11:07 PM (dwIL0)
53
Dschoen, In your post you make the comment: "This is why the BOTH parents, mother AND father MUST be American citizens."
Could you please provide us with even one piece of evidence to support your claim? Is there anything in the Constitution to support this claim? Is there any US Supreme court ruling to support this claim? Can you name a US Federal law that says that both parents of a natural born US citizen must also be US citizens in order for that person to qualify for the office of POTUS?
I'm skeptical of your claim. Please provide evidence. Thank you.
Could you please provide us with even one piece of evidence to support your claim? Is there anything in the Constitution to support this claim? Is there any US Supreme court ruling to support this claim? Can you name a US Federal law that says that both parents of a natural born US citizen must also be US citizens in order for that person to qualify for the office of POTUS?
I'm skeptical of your claim. Please provide evidence. Thank you.
Posted by: Dude at July 17, 2009 11:09 PM (byA+E)
54
I wonder why Michelle did not go with obama to visit a "very ill" grandmother who was near death just before the election. Nah, I don't buy conspiracy theories.
Posted by: JC at July 17, 2009 11:33 PM (JzeiS)
55
Jayne: Obama certainly sought his advice, but decided that his ethnic views were "incurable" and that he "fell short." Perhaps that is why he did not even visit Davis for three years before going off to college: He did not trust his advice.
Confederate Yankee: You mentioned "integrity." If intellectual engagement and sincere substantive discussions are the goals of your blog, I welcome the opportunity to pursue the truth through cordial debate with you and your readers. If, on the other hand, your blog is designed to squelch dissent through ad hominem attacks and moderator censorship, then I understand your familiar position. Thanks!
Confederate Yankee: You mentioned "integrity." If intellectual engagement and sincere substantive discussions are the goals of your blog, I welcome the opportunity to pursue the truth through cordial debate with you and your readers. If, on the other hand, your blog is designed to squelch dissent through ad hominem attacks and moderator censorship, then I understand your familiar position. Thanks!
Posted by: Kaleokualoha at July 17, 2009 11:37 PM (X2knc)
56
...seduction of a 13 year of girl...
Mind you that until a couple of years ago the age of consent in Hawaii was 14. Opposition to raising it was quite vigorous, and rather revolting
In the time frame in question 13 might have been quite legal. And, in either case, she might have looked, easily, 14 and a day.
Mind you that until a couple of years ago the age of consent in Hawaii was 14. Opposition to raising it was quite vigorous, and rather revolting
In the time frame in question 13 might have been quite legal. And, in either case, she might have looked, easily, 14 and a day.
Posted by: Druid at July 18, 2009 01:34 AM (L0xB8)
57
Kaleokualoha, your misreading of and attempt to cover for Davis and his pornography/sexual deviancy renders you an untrustworthy source with regard to interpreting the Davis and Obama relationship. Since I could only get to page 60 of Obama's race obsessed, me-fest, I'll stick with what has been reported by the Telegraph and many other news outlets: that Davis was a mentor to Obama. Maybe he outgrew aspects of his mentoring, but clearly Davis was a strong influence on Obama. And Obama, in choosing a new mentor in the Rev. Wright did not veer from Davis's teachings.
But we've gotten far off point. Why won't he release his original birth certificate?
But we've gotten far off point. Why won't he release his original birth certificate?
Posted by: Jayne at July 18, 2009 02:20 AM (dwIL0)
58
Druid:
There is what is legal, and there is what is moral and/or acceptable or appropriate behavior.
While it may well be that 14 was the age of consent at one time in Hawaii, does that mean that seducing a girl of such an age is acceptable?
Note, too, the use of the term seduction. This means persuading the girl to have sex---again, casting the whole thing in even more questionable light.
One wonders if Davis (or even you) would consider sex w/ prepubescent girls acceptable, so long as the law said it was alright.
There is what is legal, and there is what is moral and/or acceptable or appropriate behavior.
While it may well be that 14 was the age of consent at one time in Hawaii, does that mean that seducing a girl of such an age is acceptable?
Note, too, the use of the term seduction. This means persuading the girl to have sex---again, casting the whole thing in even more questionable light.
One wonders if Davis (or even you) would consider sex w/ prepubescent girls acceptable, so long as the law said it was alright.
Posted by: Lurking Observer at July 18, 2009 04:16 PM (8gQRx)
59
One wonders if Davis (or even you) would consider sex w/ prepubescent girls acceptable, so long as the law said it was alright.
You almost got where I said,
"Mind you that until a couple of years ago the age of consent in Hawaii was 14. Opposition to raising it was quite vigorous, and rather revolting"
Let me me re-emphasize, "Opposition to raising it was quite vigorous, and RATHER REVOLTING."
You and I agree on the rather revolting aspect I am sure. Davis's apologists, not so sure 'bout them.
You almost got where I said,
"Mind you that until a couple of years ago the age of consent in Hawaii was 14. Opposition to raising it was quite vigorous, and rather revolting"
Let me me re-emphasize, "Opposition to raising it was quite vigorous, and RATHER REVOLTING."
You and I agree on the rather revolting aspect I am sure. Davis's apologists, not so sure 'bout them.
Posted by: Druid at July 18, 2009 10:34 PM (L0xB8)
60
This "discussion" could be considered a good thing, as Martha would put it...except for a couple of real facts. No amount of truth or facts will dissuade the left to let go of or bad mouth Obama because he and the democrat Congress are getting the democrat agenda fulfilled..and more.
Why destroy the vehicle that is carrying the progressive dream forward?
Also consider this: Many in the left and even some moderates believe that the U.S. of A is nothing special and needs to be brought down to where it is just another nation state and should fall into line under a worldwide authority, such as the U.N.
This is of course the end product of forty plus years of liberal progressive education in our American Educational System.
Helped along by commies and fascists such as those who are the mentors and friends of Obama.
So, don't dispare that Obama's lack of records from his birth up to his employment in the office of the President of the United States will make any difference at all. It will be ignored by the media and by those in power.
Simply because power corrupts and the middle America, the poor white trash in the south and the blue collar (non-union) Americans are not to even be considered let alone have any influence over our government or have a word in saying what the real truth is.
It...(the time of decision making) is fast approaching. After the American public sees the voter fraud and illegal re-election of many democrats in a year or so, they will be very, very upset, but after they see how Obama was reelected to his second term (with an election that will be even less honest than the last Iranian election was) they won't just be upset. They will be angry and determined to throw out Obama and most every other elected official and even those long embedded government workers that have aided and abetted the destruction of our Nation.
By the force of the American people, just as our Founders told us might be necessary.
Mark my words...
Buy More Ammo.
Papa Ray
West Texas
Why destroy the vehicle that is carrying the progressive dream forward?
Also consider this: Many in the left and even some moderates believe that the U.S. of A is nothing special and needs to be brought down to where it is just another nation state and should fall into line under a worldwide authority, such as the U.N.
This is of course the end product of forty plus years of liberal progressive education in our American Educational System.
Helped along by commies and fascists such as those who are the mentors and friends of Obama.
So, don't dispare that Obama's lack of records from his birth up to his employment in the office of the President of the United States will make any difference at all. It will be ignored by the media and by those in power.
Simply because power corrupts and the middle America, the poor white trash in the south and the blue collar (non-union) Americans are not to even be considered let alone have any influence over our government or have a word in saying what the real truth is.
It...(the time of decision making) is fast approaching. After the American public sees the voter fraud and illegal re-election of many democrats in a year or so, they will be very, very upset, but after they see how Obama was reelected to his second term (with an election that will be even less honest than the last Iranian election was) they won't just be upset. They will be angry and determined to throw out Obama and most every other elected official and even those long embedded government workers that have aided and abetted the destruction of our Nation.
By the force of the American people, just as our Founders told us might be necessary.
Mark my words...
Buy More Ammo.
Papa Ray
West Texas
Posted by: Papa Ray at July 19, 2009 11:57 AM (JpVJn)
61
"Could you please provide us with even one piece of evidence to support your claim? "
Did you miss where he posted it earlier in the thread? I would suggest that you read it over again.
Did you miss where he posted it earlier in the thread? I would suggest that you read it over again.
Posted by: Matt at July 19, 2009 02:58 PM (XKpp2)
62
CANCELLED ORDERS ARE STILL "ORDERS" IN THAT THEY TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. OBAMA HAS TO ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING, WHETHER IT'S TO GO SOMEWHERE OR STAY PUT. DISMISSING THE SUIT BECAUSE OF A SLIGHT OF HAND IS DISGUSTING.
Posted by: yonason at July 19, 2009 05:10 PM (H2eqb)
63
even if Obama was born in Hawaii, it's still possible that he was not born as a US citizen, depends on who his father really was and that person's citizenship status.
just show the orginal and all conjecture goes away.
just show the orginal and all conjecture goes away.
Posted by: shoey at July 19, 2009 06:50 PM (RxUMK)
64
Quite frankly folks, Papa Ray of Texas's post is completely and absolutly on target. Anyone who dares questions BO's legitimacy, conduct, or his directives will either be crushed mysteriously by "other forces" or circumstances, fired, or otherwise destroyed, and no one will hear of it, as the media will CERTAINLY NEVER report it. They have too much to gain by keeping him in power and pushing the messianic status they've given him, as they try to ride out this left wing supremacy they temporarily have until 2010. The same fascist control of government that BO now enjoys has been this way ever since Lincoln crushed the constitution 150 years ago, and enjoyed his own myths ever since to justify it, which the media's tried to do for BO already. The constitution has meant nothing since 1865, no wonder BO compares himself to Lincoln, constantly spewing rhetoric about freedom while taking power for himself.
Believe it folks, this is NOT a free country. The gov't doesnt care what you think, as has been made very clear, and the BO apologists and supporters will still claim "well, its for the good of the country"...which is always a dictators defense.
I completely believe Obama when he warns "Count me out and you'll be sorry..." shocking to hear a President so openly threaten the people.
And yes, buy more ammo.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When people fear the government, there is tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson.
Believe it folks, this is NOT a free country. The gov't doesnt care what you think, as has been made very clear, and the BO apologists and supporters will still claim "well, its for the good of the country"...which is always a dictators defense.
I completely believe Obama when he warns "Count me out and you'll be sorry..." shocking to hear a President so openly threaten the people.
And yes, buy more ammo.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When people fear the government, there is tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson.
Posted by: christoph at July 20, 2009 02:15 PM (8gIDE)
65
"Army Major (O-4)? Hum so he completed 4 years of collage, at lest 10 years of active duty military experience just to embarrass Obama.
Really? How did he know before 1995 that Obama would be POTUS?
“his only motive for "volunteering"”
Dscheon, the point is that MAJ Cook appears to have volunteered for an Afghanistan tour, just so he could file the lawsuit. Has nothing to do with when he joined the military.
Really? How did he know before 1995 that Obama would be POTUS?
“his only motive for "volunteering"”
Dscheon, the point is that MAJ Cook appears to have volunteered for an Afghanistan tour, just so he could file the lawsuit. Has nothing to do with when he joined the military.
Posted by: MAJ Arkay at July 20, 2009 02:19 PM (ct0pr)
66
christoph: What do you mean when you say "The constitution has meant nothing since 1865"?
You've lost me there.......please explain. Thank you.
You've lost me there.......please explain. Thank you.
Posted by: Dude at July 20, 2009 09:14 PM (byA+E)
67
One last bit of ammo on this birth certificate thing. If the Democrats can demand, and get, George Bush's 30+ year old pay stubs for National Guard service, why can't Obama produce one original, hospital issued, hard copy, birth certificate?
Posted by: Jayne at July 20, 2009 11:02 PM (dwIL0)
68
George Bush's pay stubs were about ALL we could get. The only thing that the pay stubs proved was that he got paid! We ran into a solid brick wall when we tried to find out where he was and what he was doing during the time time period of May 1972-May 1973, his final year of "service" before receiving his "honorable" discharge.
You folks might as well get over this Birth Certificate conspiracy theory. If you think that Obama is not a NBC, the burden of proof is on you. Prove it.
You folks might as well get over this Birth Certificate conspiracy theory. If you think that Obama is not a NBC, the burden of proof is on you. Prove it.
Posted by: Dude at July 21, 2009 12:25 PM (byA+E)
69
http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html
That is Not an actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE it's a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. When John McCain was challenged on his COLB he produced his original Birth Certicifate within hours!
Why must Obama leave this question unanswered? The same one the news made such an issue about with John McCain?
Home > The Border Line > Archives > 2008 > July > 11 > Entry
New look at whether McCain is a “natural-born” citizen
By Eunice Moscoso | Friday, July 11, 2008, 02:07 PM
"A new analysis by a University of Arizona law professor raises questions about whether Sen. John McCain is a “natural-born” citizen, a Constitutional requirement for the presidency. "
And the news was all over this for a full day until his actual birth certificate shut them all up. Where are they questioning Obama on the EXACT same issue?
That is Not an actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE it's a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. When John McCain was challenged on his COLB he produced his original Birth Certicifate within hours!
Why must Obama leave this question unanswered? The same one the news made such an issue about with John McCain?
Home > The Border Line > Archives > 2008 > July > 11 > Entry
New look at whether McCain is a “natural-born” citizen
By Eunice Moscoso | Friday, July 11, 2008, 02:07 PM
"A new analysis by a University of Arizona law professor raises questions about whether Sen. John McCain is a “natural-born” citizen, a Constitutional requirement for the presidency. "
And the news was all over this for a full day until his actual birth certificate shut them all up. Where are they questioning Obama on the EXACT same issue?
Posted by: Joe at July 21, 2009 12:44 PM (wt/AH)
70
Dude, the Bush pay stubs showed he was paid by the National Guard for service during the time period in question, and that was the issue that Max Cleland was demanding proof of. We are asking for proof that Obama was born in Hawaii. the Bush Nat'l Guard service is of less importance than Obama's place of birth which is a constitutional requirement for POTUS. In addition, you are complaining that you did not get more info from Bush and his National Guard record. Do you see how ridiculous you sound? You want more from Bush for an insignificant thing, yet you defend Obama's stonewalling on something of the utmost importance. The burden of proof is on Obama, as you can't prove were someone wasn't born - idiot.
Posted by: Jayne at July 21, 2009 09:35 PM (dwIL0)
71
This whole thing is really interesting. BHO could put the whole thing could be put to bed quite easily, if he in fact had a legitimate birth certificate. Personally, I believe that he was most likely born in Hawaii, but Hawaii does not have an official record of his birth, thus making it impossible for him to prove his citizenship, especially with a father that is a foreign national. Occam's Razor is a principle based upon logic. Generally speaking, the simplest explanation is the correct explanation. Given the fact that Obama has spent 800K to stave off the release of an original birth certificate, given the fact(or at least in my eyes) that freerepublic.com has had a computer forensics expert identify the released certificate a fraud, given the fact that Obama has identified multiple hospitals as the location of his birth, given the fact that his father was a citizen of Kenya, given the fact that the announcement incorrectly identifies his parents as married, given the fact there are countless more inconsistencies, I would draw the conclusion that Obama cannot produce a legitimate birth certificate satifying the requirements/qualifications to be POTUS. Seriously, when has candidate for public office, without anything to hide, put up such as vehement defense to the release of a public record?
CPT G
CPT G
Posted by: CPT G at July 21, 2009 11:02 PM (H/etJ)
72
Jayne the Brain, He HAS proven his place of birth to the satisfaction of a super majority of the American public, both houses of Congress, the leadership of both major parties in our nation and every other significant institution in America.
The folks who continue to really believe that this man is not a NBC, after all of the evidence that has been presented, will never believe it. He had done all that he needs to do, madame.
You "birthers" would likely be welcomed into the such groups as The Flat Earth Society, those who don't believe that the USA didn't put a man on the moon, etc.
Look in the mirror lady when you call someone else an idiot.
The folks who continue to really believe that this man is not a NBC, after all of the evidence that has been presented, will never believe it. He had done all that he needs to do, madame.
You "birthers" would likely be welcomed into the such groups as The Flat Earth Society, those who don't believe that the USA didn't put a man on the moon, etc.
Look in the mirror lady when you call someone else an idiot.
Posted by: Dude at July 22, 2009 12:54 AM (byA+E)
73
No, he has not proven anything to anyone. Many of those who voted for him were so ignorant of the facts that they are now facepalming. Like has been said, he could put this to rest very easily, but refuses to do so.
Posted by: Matt at July 22, 2009 10:53 AM (XKpp2)
74
I don't know if he is or is not a NBC and neither do you. What I do know is that his electronic version of a Certification of Birth is not proof. It is possibly itself even a forgery. What is also known is that no hard copy original Certificate of Birth has been given to anyone. The gals in Hawaii say they have one, and that's all they say. So if it's there, why doesn't he make all the "birthers" go away by showing it? What is he hiding? Why spend money to keep people from seeing it? You can't deny that the press was on his side so they are certainly not interested in pursuing the matter. And since you are still hung up on additional Bush National Guard records, but you accept the forged electronic version of Obama's supposed Hawaiian birth, you are still the idiot.
Posted by: Jayne at July 23, 2009 08:22 PM (dwIL0)
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