Nationwide, Police Begin Bracing For Obama's Defeat
The Hill notes that police departments across the country are preparing for post-election violence:
The reference to Palin as the first female vice president is repeated later in the article, but as an obvious sop; does anyone really expect women or Republicans to riot if McCain and Palin aren't elected? No, the concern is that urban Democrats may riot in the event that Barack Obama falls short in his bid for the White House, or that they may riot to a lesser extent if Obama wins and victory celebrations get out of hand. A source of mine involved in homeland security, however, says that the government isn't terribly concerned with fears of overzealous celebrations, but with potential rioting linked to expectations being built of a "stolen election." He intoned—but did not state directly—that internal polling from both the McCain and Obama campaigns see a much Presidential tighter race that is shown in most of the public polls (noted here, here, and here as well). This inaccurate and perhaps purposefully biased polling has created expectations in some quarters of an easy win for Barack Obama that the internal polling data in both campaigns does not support. I suspect that the media-manipulated polls could lead to violence if Obama is not elected, including injuries to innocent citizens, rioters, and law enforcement officials. I've made it clear in recent days that I suspect that John McCain and Sarah Palin will win this election, and that the outcome will shock many. If that shock leads to violence, however, I hope that the blame for those injured is properly placed at the feet of the mainstream media organizations that have abandoned objectivity in order to campaign and even cheat in favor of the Democratic candidate they so clearly prefer.
Police departments in cities across the country are beefing up their ranks for Election Day, preparing for possible civil unrest and riots after the historic presidential contest. Public safety officials said in interviews with The Hill that the election, which will end with either the nation’s first black president or its first female vice president, demanded a stronger police presence. Some worry that if Barack Obama loses and there is suspicion of foul play in the election, violence could ensue in cities with large black populations. Others based the need for enhanced patrols on past riots in urban areas (following professional sports events) and also on Internet rumors.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at 11:21 AM
Comments
1
The media has just started to "prefer" Obama.
When all this started, the only press about Obama was negative.
Do you expect mainstream media to lose it's watchers and readers?
If the majority of the people want Obama, why would they report on McCain?
I will take part in whatever I feel like doing if the election is stolen.
Also, nobody try to assassinate Obama, that will cause a Riot of all riots. Don't expect this riot to include only blacks either. There are plenty of us whites that won't stand for more Bushism.
When all this started, the only press about Obama was negative.
Do you expect mainstream media to lose it's watchers and readers?
If the majority of the people want Obama, why would they report on McCain?
I will take part in whatever I feel like doing if the election is stolen.
Also, nobody try to assassinate Obama, that will cause a Riot of all riots. Don't expect this riot to include only blacks either. There are plenty of us whites that won't stand for more Bushism.
Posted by: Sean Winter at October 22, 2008 11:47 AM (ymJVc)
2
I'm glad big city police departments are preparing for once.
US Whites, very diverse in views, historically don't riot. Should the election be stolen via Democratic voter fraud, and the media uncharacteristically report the news accurately, then there could be isolated incidents of rage. I don't see the potential for organized white riots, however.
Inner city/black rioting seems, historically, likely no matter who wins.
In my election predictions (http://www.kennelson.com/newblog/?p=286), I give McCain a win and expect bad riots in Chicago, LA and Miami. I didn't cover the case of an Obama victory, but given my own experience with Clinton's win while living in Washington, D.C. - it is hard to tell between a victory "celebration" and a defeat "riot".
US Whites, very diverse in views, historically don't riot. Should the election be stolen via Democratic voter fraud, and the media uncharacteristically report the news accurately, then there could be isolated incidents of rage. I don't see the potential for organized white riots, however.
Inner city/black rioting seems, historically, likely no matter who wins.
In my election predictions (http://www.kennelson.com/newblog/?p=286), I give McCain a win and expect bad riots in Chicago, LA and Miami. I didn't cover the case of an Obama victory, but given my own experience with Clinton's win while living in Washington, D.C. - it is hard to tell between a victory "celebration" and a defeat "riot".
Posted by: Ken Nelson at October 22, 2008 11:54 AM (haFqi)
3
I sure as hell hope you're right on the election outcome. And I have $20 riding on it!
Posted by: Son of a Pig and a Monkey at October 22, 2008 12:09 PM (KsxrY)
4
Win or Lose, the result will be the same from the Obama thugs. If they win, they will see it as justification to go after the only people in the world they consider evil.
Posted by: Paul Atreides at October 22, 2008 12:16 PM (WOi7W)
5
The media has just started to "prefer" Obama.
When all this started, the only press about Obama was negative.
They've been in love with him since his 2004 DNC speech, and they've refused to challenge him on almost anything substantive. Please share some of the negative press to which you refer.
Do you expect mainstream media to lose it's watchers and readers?
They already are, across the spectrum, and it is overwhelmingly because of their bias. Where have you been as the LA Times, NY Times, and other news organizations have been shedding employees?
If the majority of the people want Obama, why would they report on McCain?
Becuase it is called journalism, not cheerleading, and it's their job, genius.
I will take part in whatever I feel like doing if the election is stolen.
Ah, I see we have someone unwilling to believe that The One can lose. You do know he's never won a contested election in his life, right?
Also, nobody try to assassinate Obama, that will cause a Riot of all riots. Don't expect this riot to include only blacks either. There are plenty of us whites that won't stand for more Bushism.
As I reported months ago, the only people talking about Obama being assassinated are those on the political left. Most of that has been simply media-generated smears directed at non-supporters by the media, though some are of course concerned that their Messiah may actually be targeted. Perhaps as sadly, some on the left are almost hoping that he is assassinated, knowing he is incapable of living up to the hype, and feeling in dark places they don't want to admit he'd be more effective as a martyr, kinda like one of his heroes, cli-Che.
And if, Mr. Winter, you decide to riot and try to hurt others because Democrats blew what should have been an easy election because they picked an inexperienced, unvetted candidate with ties to the most extreme radicals in American politics, I hope you burn down your own home first.
That is, after all, where the blame lies.
The media has just started to "prefer" Obama.
When all this started, the only press about Obama was negative.
They've been in love with him since his 2004 DNC speech, and they've refused to challenge him on almost anything substantive. Please share some of the negative press to which you refer.
Do you expect mainstream media to lose it's watchers and readers?
They already are, across the spectrum, and it is overwhelmingly because of their bias. Where have you been as the LA Times, NY Times, and other news organizations have been shedding employees?
If the majority of the people want Obama, why would they report on McCain?
Becuase it is called journalism, not cheerleading, and it's their job, genius.
I will take part in whatever I feel like doing if the election is stolen.
Ah, I see we have someone unwilling to believe that The One can lose. You do know he's never won a contested election in his life, right?
Also, nobody try to assassinate Obama, that will cause a Riot of all riots. Don't expect this riot to include only blacks either. There are plenty of us whites that won't stand for more Bushism.
As I reported months ago, the only people talking about Obama being assassinated are those on the political left. Most of that has been simply media-generated smears directed at non-supporters by the media, though some are of course concerned that their Messiah may actually be targeted. Perhaps as sadly, some on the left are almost hoping that he is assassinated, knowing he is incapable of living up to the hype, and feeling in dark places they don't want to admit he'd be more effective as a martyr, kinda like one of his heroes, cli-Che.
And if, Mr. Winter, you decide to riot and try to hurt others because Democrats blew what should have been an easy election because they picked an inexperienced, unvetted candidate with ties to the most extreme radicals in American politics, I hope you burn down your own home first.
That is, after all, where the blame lies.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 22, 2008 12:22 PM (HcgFD)
6
With all the hoopla that the MSM tries to slant that it is the McCain supporters who are fomenting violence which is utterly untrue, the only real violence occurring right now is from the Obama supporters, especially white ones. In NYC a man attacked and bruised a white woman with a McCain sign, a parade of McCain supporters were spit on and cursed at, and across the country people's cars and property are being vandalized by Obama supporters. It is insane and the MSM should take a large part of the responsibility for this by portraying Bush and others in an unduly harsh light.
Posted by: Krystal at October 22, 2008 12:31 PM (D2TAc)
7
Spot on CY, the polls are a lot closer than any of the MSM want or are willing to report. This guy's a joke. The only thing I really worry about are the orgs like ACORN with the help of the folks working the polling places pulling the lever for the Dallas Cowboys in all 50 states!
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at October 22, 2008 12:41 PM (8NiWI)
8
I hope that the blame for those injured is properly placed at the feet of the mainstream media organizations that have abandoned objectivity in order to campaign and even cheat in favor of the Democratic candidate they so clearly prefer.
CY, you slay me. You really do. Next you will be clicking your heels together and saying there is no place like home......
However, you are right regarding the likelihood of civil unrest if Obama loses. The left will somehow project the justification onto the rest of the country by claiming that the election was stolen by sneaky Republicans (probably by infiltrating Acorn). The Democrats will do this because they approve of stealing elections themselves through voter fraud and cannot conceive of their enemies (us, that is) thinking any other way than them.
In fact, maybe that is the new meme! To say: "Look, you racists. If you let McCain win, we will not only keep calling you racists, but we will burn your cities down". Stupid, but so was calling all criticisms of Obama racist.
CY, you slay me. You really do. Next you will be clicking your heels together and saying there is no place like home......
However, you are right regarding the likelihood of civil unrest if Obama loses. The left will somehow project the justification onto the rest of the country by claiming that the election was stolen by sneaky Republicans (probably by infiltrating Acorn). The Democrats will do this because they approve of stealing elections themselves through voter fraud and cannot conceive of their enemies (us, that is) thinking any other way than them.
In fact, maybe that is the new meme! To say: "Look, you racists. If you let McCain win, we will not only keep calling you racists, but we will burn your cities down". Stupid, but so was calling all criticisms of Obama racist.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 22, 2008 01:09 PM (TzLpv)
9
You suggest Mr. Winter start with his own house. He sounds like the type that doesn't have a house. They are the type that sit in their parents' basement all day fantasizing, or they defaulted on a mortgage they couldn't afford and now they're bitter- and homeless. Obama's gonna get him the keys to a "rich guy's" house, dontcha know.
Posted by: deepsix at October 22, 2008 01:17 PM (JUPc/)
Posted by: Conservative CBU at October 22, 2008 01:46 PM (M+Vfm)
11
The Dem/Press has prepared the ground for this. While blatantly stealing the election themselves they STILL whine that the attempted theft of the 2000 election by Al Gore was unsuccessful. In the intervening years certainly we have all heard that first person, possibly from the son-in-law or some such figure and let it go as a quaint phantasm. Big mistake. Anyone watching events in Fl knew it was the Democrats manufacturing fraudulent votes that had the nation in suspenders. Democrat vote fraud in Democrat districts... yet it's still Rove/Bush on the hook somehow. It is so stupid the instant response is to laugh. No more. These loons MUST be taken to task whenever possible. Slough off this responsibility and, as the old Jewish aphorism has it, your silence will indicate your agreement. DO NOT assume that ANYTHING is too stupid, insane or physically impossible to be believed by the gullible. This is our responsibility whether we like it or not. Would you let your town burn down because you would not instruct someone on the nature of fire? If there is some sort of violence after the election of whatever sort it will be short lived. Adults should already be prepared for the odd riot or mass strike. We will live through Obama, if we must. One thing is certain, socialism never succeeds. It may prosper briefly but it never succeeds. Our fellow citizens will see that, ultimately.
Posted by: megapotamus at October 22, 2008 02:08 PM (LF+qW)
12
If media coverage was more balanced and so many disgusting people weren't putting forth - and buying into - the notion that Obama is some sort of saintly, blessed creature then I don't think there would be anything to worry about.
I actually talked to an ACORN girl some weeks ago. She was doing voter registration and I told her I was registered and who I was voting for. She followed me for two whole blocks to pester me about my voting for McCain. Finally I stopped, looked at this uneducated hoodrat and asked her if she understood that her life would not change AT ALL if Obama was elected. It didn't matter to her. This is all about unicorns, candy mountains, moonbeams and some sort of perverse religiosity but there is so much delusional hope invested in Obama that I can definitely forsee ugliness if he loses.
I actually talked to an ACORN girl some weeks ago. She was doing voter registration and I told her I was registered and who I was voting for. She followed me for two whole blocks to pester me about my voting for McCain. Finally I stopped, looked at this uneducated hoodrat and asked her if she understood that her life would not change AT ALL if Obama was elected. It didn't matter to her. This is all about unicorns, candy mountains, moonbeams and some sort of perverse religiosity but there is so much delusional hope invested in Obama that I can definitely forsee ugliness if he loses.
Posted by: Hector at October 22, 2008 02:18 PM (9NvZm)
13
I hope Al-Queda supportors jumping in the tank for McCain doesn't lead to a greater loss of life after he loses.
Posted by: AQ at October 22, 2008 02:26 PM (1XWfF)
14
Maybe Ayers will toss a few bombs to show his solidarity with his black brothers.
Because, god knows the Weather Underground and the Black Liberation/ Supremist movement weren't intimately connected.....
Because, god knows the Weather Underground and the Black Liberation/ Supremist movement weren't intimately connected.....
Posted by: RM at October 22, 2008 02:41 PM (9Y8s/)
15
From LEO's (in Markham, Harvey and Hazelcrest) that I have had conversations in the last 3 months, the southern suburbs of Cook County will riot, either in celebration or in rage.
The police departments in this area are ill-equipped to handle looting, burning and shooting of a grand scale.
The LEO's suggest that you get a gun and plan an escape route.
The police departments in this area are ill-equipped to handle looting, burning and shooting of a grand scale.
The LEO's suggest that you get a gun and plan an escape route.
Posted by: Purple Raider at October 22, 2008 03:00 PM (5ovKS)
16
It is always good to have the "hunker down" plan and the "boogie out" plan set, and ready for implementation in 1 hour or less. There are a few homes that would suffice as impenetrable, but it is always good to have plan b. But also remember that the last time there were MAJOR riots I've ever heard of, the neighborhoods that remanied untouched were primarily the Asian sections. They were sitting on their roofs, armed, and obviously the rioters did NOT have martyrdom in mind.
Posted by: cmblake6 at October 22, 2008 03:13 PM (QSVQf)
17
You know where the violence is gonna be? The first time some mealy-mouthed republican hack lawyer challenges the legitimate vote of some little old black lady in Florida.
America is fed up with vote suppression, and the gloves are off. We are taking democracy back, and step one is making sure everyone gets a chance to be counted. It's going to happen in the courts, it's going to happen in the polling places, but most of all it's going to happen in the streets. A train is coming, boy, and you'd best get off the tracks.
You are damned right there will be violence if this election gets stolen. There should have been violence in 2000, and 2004, but finally the people have woken up. They finally learned that 'elections have consequences', and the consequences of letting criminals steal the presidency of the USA are war, ruin, terror, and financial ruin.
You had your chance to play with the toys, now run along because the grownups have to clean up after you.
America is fed up with vote suppression, and the gloves are off. We are taking democracy back, and step one is making sure everyone gets a chance to be counted. It's going to happen in the courts, it's going to happen in the polling places, but most of all it's going to happen in the streets. A train is coming, boy, and you'd best get off the tracks.
You are damned right there will be violence if this election gets stolen. There should have been violence in 2000, and 2004, but finally the people have woken up. They finally learned that 'elections have consequences', and the consequences of letting criminals steal the presidency of the USA are war, ruin, terror, and financial ruin.
You had your chance to play with the toys, now run along because the grownups have to clean up after you.
Posted by: charles at October 22, 2008 03:25 PM (Ewe33)
18
I usually go to RealClearPolitics for their listing of all of the polls. Today they have a list of 15 polls, tied for second place at the highest for Obama is the ABC?Wall Street Journal poll giving Obama a +9% lead. Do you consider the Wall Street Journal to be a "leftie" type paper ? Do you believe that the WSJ is seeking to elect Obama ?
Posted by: John Ryan at October 22, 2008 03:28 PM (xrV8E)
19
McCain's up to 7-1 on intrade.com! $10K today is a brand new Corvette in November. Don't wait until the odds start falling.
Posted by: Luther Tines at October 22, 2008 03:35 PM (5qgvw)
20
Sean Winter,
Important safety tip: It's not smart to threaten violence against people who:
1. Have extensive military experience.
2. Own firearms.
3. Repeatedly qualified as an "Expert" on several types of individual and crew-served weapons.
As it happens, one of those "people" is me. You talk the talk, old boy, but do you walk the walk?
Important safety tip: It's not smart to threaten violence against people who:
1. Have extensive military experience.
2. Own firearms.
3. Repeatedly qualified as an "Expert" on several types of individual and crew-served weapons.
As it happens, one of those "people" is me. You talk the talk, old boy, but do you walk the walk?
Posted by: MarkJ at October 22, 2008 03:37 PM (ZFVlP)
21
why don't you try being nice or something. get a little love in your hearts. sheesh.
Posted by: you guys are so mean at October 22, 2008 03:46 PM (Na2Fu)
22
I live on the border between an (somewhat upper) middle-class neighborhood and a predominantly lower-class one. My house is pretty much surrounded on 3 sides by homes with Obama signs in their front yards. I had a McCain sign in mine for about less than a week before I came out to work one morning to find my sign torn up and my mailbox pulled partway off its post. Since that time I do not park my truck in the street in front of my house at night for fear someone will vandalize it. I have another McCain sign, but I keep this one on the inside of my front window facing the street. I have strong (and I feel justified) fears that a McCain victory will make my home the target of further vandalism. For this reason, on election night I will cling to my (loaded) shotgun. But I still hope for a McCain victory.
Posted by: Eric at October 22, 2008 03:47 PM (Eg+DG)
23
Oakland CA and a lot of the East Bay: Richmond, San Leandro, Hayward - will riot, win-or-lose. It's a "Political Happening" that will happen, like side-shows and all the rest. The Media will be there to televise it. In the suburbs it will be quiet and the Obama-heads will sip chardonnay in self-satisfaction.
Posted by: DirtCrashr at October 22, 2008 03:53 PM (VNM5w)
24
MarkJ:
Yah know what's not smart? Threatening people when you are drastically outnumbered. Fact is, there are a whole lot more people on Sean's side than there are on yours. Not only that, but stats show we are just as well armed, just as likely to serve, and most important smarter and better educated.
You really need to get the picture here: You guys are going to lose. Not only that, but while you are losing, your entire party is going up in smoke. So now would be a really smart time to pull in your horns, go to the polling station, vote, and then try and get on with your life.
You see, it's our turn now. The right had a good long try, and all they did was make a huge mess. From record budget surplus, to record deficit. From peace, to the largest act of terrorism ever committed on American soil. From a guy messing with an intern, to a president who approved TORTURE of POWs. Every single case study you can imagine, is a republican party epic fail.
America gets it, they understand, you need to ask yourself why you don't.
Yah know what's not smart? Threatening people when you are drastically outnumbered. Fact is, there are a whole lot more people on Sean's side than there are on yours. Not only that, but stats show we are just as well armed, just as likely to serve, and most important smarter and better educated.
You really need to get the picture here: You guys are going to lose. Not only that, but while you are losing, your entire party is going up in smoke. So now would be a really smart time to pull in your horns, go to the polling station, vote, and then try and get on with your life.
You see, it's our turn now. The right had a good long try, and all they did was make a huge mess. From record budget surplus, to record deficit. From peace, to the largest act of terrorism ever committed on American soil. From a guy messing with an intern, to a president who approved TORTURE of POWs. Every single case study you can imagine, is a republican party epic fail.
America gets it, they understand, you need to ask yourself why you don't.
Posted by: charles at October 22, 2008 03:53 PM (Ewe33)
25
You know where the violence is gonna be? The first time some mealy-mouthed republican hack lawyer challenges the legitimate vote of some little old black lady in Florida.
It isn't the little old black lady in Florida we're worried about (so long as she is still above ground and properly registered), so much as it is the attempt of Democrats and ACORN to queer elections with fake voter registrations, voters registering and voting illegally in battleground states, etc.
I know it is difficult to handle, but we really are quite serious about having just one vote per person.
If you do intend to take it to the streets, Charles--and I suspect you're just another Internet tough guy, so I doubt you'll even do that--by all means, protest to your little heart's content.
If you attempt to hurt someone, however, I hope you're caught and go to jail for your crimes.
You know where the violence is gonna be? The first time some mealy-mouthed republican hack lawyer challenges the legitimate vote of some little old black lady in Florida.
It isn't the little old black lady in Florida we're worried about (so long as she is still above ground and properly registered), so much as it is the attempt of Democrats and ACORN to queer elections with fake voter registrations, voters registering and voting illegally in battleground states, etc.
I know it is difficult to handle, but we really are quite serious about having just one vote per person.
If you do intend to take it to the streets, Charles--and I suspect you're just another Internet tough guy, so I doubt you'll even do that--by all means, protest to your little heart's content.
If you attempt to hurt someone, however, I hope you're caught and go to jail for your crimes.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 22, 2008 03:57 PM (HcgFD)
26
Here is a post from RedState. Shocking stuff here. Imagine if the "artist" had used a cardboard cutout of Obama instead? The entire Industrial Media Complex would be braying for an FBI investigation into the "racism".
http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/oct/22/lets-pretend-to-kill-sarah-palin/
http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/oct/22/lets-pretend-to-kill-sarah-palin/
Posted by: Sparky at October 22, 2008 04:11 PM (GAf+S)
27
I realize treason is hard to get out of the blood, CY, but when your party sets out to purposely challenge a vote on grounds they KNOW are spurious, they are subverting the constitution. It's treason, CY, and you know it is.
As far as the streets go, I say look back in time to a certain tea party in Boston: One mans criminal is another man's national hero.
As far as the streets go, I say look back in time to a certain tea party in Boston: One mans criminal is another man's national hero.
Posted by: charles at October 22, 2008 04:15 PM (Ewe33)
28
Charles, the grounds here are so serious that there are investigations going on in at least 14 states, along with rumors of a federal RICO case being developed. None of these investigations are directed at Republicans, though both Democrats and Republicans are leading the investigations. We also have video of ACORN officials illegally promoting Obama and violating their non-profit status. There seems to be plenty of illegality going on, but the fact of the matter is that everything thus far is coming from your side.
And just for the record, it is your candidate Obama that has spent at least 21 years palling around with a pair of terrorists that formally declared war on the United States, so I'd be careful about the treason charge, bub.
And just for the record, it is your candidate Obama that has spent at least 21 years palling around with a pair of terrorists that formally declared war on the United States, so I'd be careful about the treason charge, bub.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 22, 2008 04:25 PM (HcgFD)
29
If Obama loses, it won't be because it was stolen, after all, Micky and Minny mouse are voting for him, dead goldfish, 7 year old children, people who can vote 76 times, dogs, cats and all the other honest voters.
Posted by: Brooke at October 22, 2008 04:35 PM (ucqvQ)
Posted by: trax at October 22, 2008 04:41 PM (Xgwet)
31
I'm going to get very rowdy if McCain wins. GIT ER DUN. YEE HAW GO REPUBLICANS
Posted by: TNHillybilly at October 22, 2008 04:52 PM (/qLFp)
32
Back in 2006 in Mexico, when Calderon & the conservatives won a tight election victory, the leftists raise h3ll with riots and looting for weeks. The gangster Lopez Obrador fueled the violence with his refusal to recognize the legitimate conservative victory.
Those events flashed in my mind as I watched the unrest perpetrated by the rabble in St. Paul against the conservatives, and wondered how more vile, vicious, and violent they will be if their messiah does not accomplish his purchase of the Oval Office.
And given the loon toon leftist's litany of larceny, looting, vandalism and assault against those who dare to disagree (which the msm conveniently drops down the memory hole), I fear the tribulation of an Obama defeat will be terrible, as it will be great.
Mob rule, indeed. It's speaks volumes about the people on the left when the subject of intolerance & violence almost exclusively is their domain.
The Hill's failure to see it's own complicity in this narrative only serves to exacerbate this potentially violent outcome.
The CY was correct to chastise the Hill's article with it's foolish fumbling that included conservatives.
Those events flashed in my mind as I watched the unrest perpetrated by the rabble in St. Paul against the conservatives, and wondered how more vile, vicious, and violent they will be if their messiah does not accomplish his purchase of the Oval Office.
And given the loon toon leftist's litany of larceny, looting, vandalism and assault against those who dare to disagree (which the msm conveniently drops down the memory hole), I fear the tribulation of an Obama defeat will be terrible, as it will be great.
Mob rule, indeed. It's speaks volumes about the people on the left when the subject of intolerance & violence almost exclusively is their domain.
The Hill's failure to see it's own complicity in this narrative only serves to exacerbate this potentially violent outcome.
The CY was correct to chastise the Hill's article with it's foolish fumbling that included conservatives.
Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at October 22, 2008 05:10 PM (nDaZn)
33
"Not only that, but stats show we are just as well armed, just as likely to serve, and most important smarter and better educated."
HAHA! Yeah right!
HAHA! Yeah right!
Posted by: Jack Klompus at October 22, 2008 05:40 PM (PYRMV)
34
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe the U.S. is being set up by monied Islamists who, failing to ruin America by paying off suicide pilots on 9/11 to bomb buildings, figured out that by setting up an unelectable sock puppett like Barry O. for president would finish the job?
Posted by: jul at October 22, 2008 06:02 PM (DolVr)
35
Wow. All the murder that the Liberals have vowed on this thread is off-the-charts insane. I don't mean that as a metaphor, either.
Can you even hear yourself?
Can you even hear yourself?
Posted by: brando at October 22, 2008 06:19 PM (WTc4Z)
36
...the grounds here are so serious that there are investigations going on in at least 14 states, along with rumors of a federal RICO case being developed. None of these investigations are directed at Republicans...
Wrong, CY.
In fact, criminal charges appear to have already been filed this cycle against one GOP vote suppressor, with more undoubtedly to follow.
Hell, Dude, even the British Press is up on this. So what is it you do all day, exactly?
Wrong, CY.
In fact, criminal charges appear to have already been filed this cycle against one GOP vote suppressor, with more undoubtedly to follow.
Hell, Dude, even the British Press is up on this. So what is it you do all day, exactly?
Posted by: Dolf Fenster at October 22, 2008 06:47 PM (vD2Hz)
37
Dolf, two of those three links are about the same guy, and they don't constitute much of anything, as claims against him have never resulted in any sort of legal investigation (and no, a politically-biased John Conyers witchhunt doesn't count).
Congrats on the second one, however. While they didn't bring charges for doing anything other than forging his own home address, that is something.
Congrats on the second one, however. While they didn't bring charges for doing anything other than forging his own home address, that is something.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 22, 2008 07:16 PM (HcgFD)
38
Oh, CY, it must be hard to keep justifying this stuff in the face of reality. It's republicans who are trying to disenfranchise blacks, it's republicans who are challenging the registrations of new voters for even the vaguest pretexts, and it's republican strategists who, time and again have been heard to explain that lower turnout favours the republican cause.
face up to it: the majority of americans are anti-bush, anti-war, anti-fascist, anti-racist, and anti-plutocrat. Since the modern republican party is founded on those ideals, it means the american people are anti-you.
The only way you guys have been able to win, since the pathetic showing of Bush the elder, has been by cheating. Now that your offences have become so egregious that even the media can't ignore it anymore, your goose is cooked.
By the way, how are you dealing with the fact tat al quaida just endorsed McCain?
face up to it: the majority of americans are anti-bush, anti-war, anti-fascist, anti-racist, and anti-plutocrat. Since the modern republican party is founded on those ideals, it means the american people are anti-you.
The only way you guys have been able to win, since the pathetic showing of Bush the elder, has been by cheating. Now that your offences have become so egregious that even the media can't ignore it anymore, your goose is cooked.
By the way, how are you dealing with the fact tat al quaida just endorsed McCain?
Posted by: charles at October 22, 2008 07:35 PM (c+J5G)
39
Be aware too that these people in the inner city who are rioting most probably will be in majority Obama voting districts, therefore *anything* that McCain/Bush do to keep the rioters from (insert mayhem here) will be viewed as voter intimidation ex post facto. Its a no-win proposition for the LEOs, let it burn and you are a racist for allowing violence in a minority neighborhood, enforce the law and you are oppressing the poor misunderstood protesters who never intended to hurt a fly (with that bottle of gas in their hand).
Posted by: Georg Felis at October 22, 2008 07:37 PM (i5bRG)
40
"does anyone really expect women or Republicans to riot if McCain and Palin aren't elected?"
No, they'll just retreat into their blogs and start spreading nasty rumors. You know, kinda like they do now.
No, they'll just retreat into their blogs and start spreading nasty rumors. You know, kinda like they do now.
Posted by: Len at October 22, 2008 08:37 PM (4AGUz)
41
well, Charlie the retarded one does do everyone a service by reminding that leftards still think they 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen.
Which means if Obama loses, they will believe it this time as well.
I will guess the mob of Charlies will rant and rave and threaten violence. They won't actually BE rioting. Just cheering on bigger fools than themselves (hard to imagine, I know). Hoping for a real Days of Rage experience, at least vicarously.
But only for a little while. We already know how long libtards can support real violence and how ready they are to surrender.
Which means if Obama loses, they will believe it this time as well.
I will guess the mob of Charlies will rant and rave and threaten violence. They won't actually BE rioting. Just cheering on bigger fools than themselves (hard to imagine, I know). Hoping for a real Days of Rage experience, at least vicarously.
But only for a little while. We already know how long libtards can support real violence and how ready they are to surrender.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 22, 2008 08:48 PM (ex0JG)
42
Charles -
Pres. Bush isn't running in 2008. How difficult is that for you to understand?
If the righteous and morality driven majority that you claim to represent are anti-war, why are you trolling the internet with threats of armed insurrection?
If the righteous and morality driven majority that you claim to represent are anti-fascist, why are you supporting the one candidate who has threatened legal intimidation of opponents and used getting names tossed off of signature ballads to move ahead in the polls?
If the righteous and morality driven majority that you claim to represent are anti-racists, why are you supporting the one candidate who states radical, anti-American, and violent beliefs are the only authentic black identity available to him as a 1/2 white and 1/2 Arab American?
You aren't making much sense.
Pres. Bush isn't running in 2008. How difficult is that for you to understand?
If the righteous and morality driven majority that you claim to represent are anti-war, why are you trolling the internet with threats of armed insurrection?
If the righteous and morality driven majority that you claim to represent are anti-fascist, why are you supporting the one candidate who has threatened legal intimidation of opponents and used getting names tossed off of signature ballads to move ahead in the polls?
If the righteous and morality driven majority that you claim to represent are anti-racists, why are you supporting the one candidate who states radical, anti-American, and violent beliefs are the only authentic black identity available to him as a 1/2 white and 1/2 Arab American?
You aren't making much sense.
Posted by: Adriane at October 22, 2008 08:57 PM (wJlIy)
43
""Not only that, but stats show we are just as well armed, just as likely to serve, and most important smarter and better educated."
You forgot the part about your smarter children and more attractive spouses.
You go ahead and bring your STATS along when you join in the riots. But, I'd suggest not bringing a gun. If you do that you might get hurt.
You forgot the part about your smarter children and more attractive spouses.
You go ahead and bring your STATS along when you join in the riots. But, I'd suggest not bringing a gun. If you do that you might get hurt.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 22, 2008 09:49 PM (9DNw+)
44
Just remember, "Charles", the military is going for McCain 7:1 over The Chosen One.
And it's John Murtha's "racist rednecks" who are bitterly clinging to their guns, no?
If your boyz in the 'hood think they can bring out a POS .380 Taurus against a scoped Browning autoloader in .300 Winchester Mag, let 'em....
And it's John Murtha's "racist rednecks" who are bitterly clinging to their guns, no?
If your boyz in the 'hood think they can bring out a POS .380 Taurus against a scoped Browning autoloader in .300 Winchester Mag, let 'em....
Posted by: Bill at October 22, 2008 10:13 PM (sL4r9)
45
Hey Mr. Winter,
I'm one of those cops going on extended shifts because of who might riot if The One doesn't win. Come on down to SC if you want to throw a few pissbombs. I have a 40mm crowd pleaser just waiting for you, Douche.
I'm one of those cops going on extended shifts because of who might riot if The One doesn't win. Come on down to SC if you want to throw a few pissbombs. I have a 40mm crowd pleaser just waiting for you, Douche.
Posted by: PoPo at October 22, 2008 11:32 PM (AVokL)
46
Charles-
Since when are libs armed? I think you need to reconsider voting for Obama if you're a firearm owner.
Since when are libs armed? I think you need to reconsider voting for Obama if you're a firearm owner.
Posted by: grandma at October 22, 2008 11:33 PM (Tv4NW)
47
I got tired of this racial crap a few years ago. I sold my house in town, moved to the (semi) country with 16 AC of trees and jungle between me and the rest of you igits. I built this place for a Y2K scenario and we are pretty self sufficient. Only UPS and FEDEX know where I live. We need to add a few more food staples and we are ready to go.
I have enough firearms and ammo to ward off any intruders. I have a 12 GA riot gun by the front door and my loaded AR-15 will join it before Nov 4. My .45 ACP sleeps by me. The rest of my guns will be loaded and easily accessible. Bring it on Chuck. I DO need more target practice!
I am voting early tomorrow, so I will be able to keep an eye on things later. It will be interesting to see how things unfold.
I predict a win for McCain. Obama just doesn't cut it as Commander in Chief. Baraq is a Social psychopath at minimum, a communist most probably. I don't think that is what we need.
I have enough firearms and ammo to ward off any intruders. I have a 12 GA riot gun by the front door and my loaded AR-15 will join it before Nov 4. My .45 ACP sleeps by me. The rest of my guns will be loaded and easily accessible. Bring it on Chuck. I DO need more target practice!
I am voting early tomorrow, so I will be able to keep an eye on things later. It will be interesting to see how things unfold.
I predict a win for McCain. Obama just doesn't cut it as Commander in Chief. Baraq is a Social psychopath at minimum, a communist most probably. I don't think that is what we need.
Posted by: Marc Boyd at October 23, 2008 12:26 AM (Zoziv)
48
"No, the concern is that urban Democrats may riot in the event that Barack Obama falls short in his bid for the White House, or that they may riot to a lesser extent if Obama wins and victory celebrations get out of hand."
The reference to "urban Democrats" by Confederate Yankee is a joke; does anyone really think Confederate Yankee is referring to anyone other than black Democrats? Come on! Say what you really think. Don't be politically correct.
The reference to "urban Democrats" by Confederate Yankee is a joke; does anyone really think Confederate Yankee is referring to anyone other than black Democrats? Come on! Say what you really think. Don't be politically correct.
Posted by: zftsg at October 23, 2008 12:40 AM (1arCl)
49
So, I must vote for Obama to appease the blacks.
Forgetaboutit.
I am voting for McCain/Palin, because I want LEADERS
If the blacks want to riot, go for it.
Rioters burn down their own neighborhoods,
and now there is no money to rebuild them.
Forgetaboutit.
I am voting for McCain/Palin, because I want LEADERS
If the blacks want to riot, go for it.
Rioters burn down their own neighborhoods,
and now there is no money to rebuild them.
Posted by: Marvin at October 23, 2008 12:56 AM (pv/TI)
50
zftsg: Judging from all the light-skinned "anarchists" running around in various protests inside cities, assuming "urban Democrats" will be dark-skinned is rather presumptive.
Maybe you shouldn't project so much...
Maybe you shouldn't project so much...
Posted by: Patrick Chester at October 23, 2008 01:54 AM (RezbN)
51
I will take part in whatever I feel like doing if the election is stolen.
Not before you clean your room you won't, little mister.
You really need to get the picture here: You guys are going to lose.
Then why are you so angry? Relax, you've won.
Not before you clean your room you won't, little mister.
You really need to get the picture here: You guys are going to lose.
Then why are you so angry? Relax, you've won.
Posted by: Jim Treacher at October 23, 2008 04:01 AM (NV3P1)
52
CY readers don't seem to have much confidence in the great American people and I guess after 2000 & 2004 you have some justification. Most of the comments on here are completely baseless and full of hate and fear. Hate is born of fear, fear is born of ignorance. Get to know your enemy, you will find that the vast majority are people much like you but are perhaps a bit more grounded and a bit less fearful. Keep stirring the hate and fear and you will do something you will regret, if you haven't already.
Posted by: funkydoowopper at October 23, 2008 04:55 AM (sFyyU)
53
I, for one, hope that the election is not close. Either way. If the public is so stupid to elect Obama, so be it. They deserve what they get. And if McCain gets elected, and it's not by a razor thin margin then that's good, too. Although the latter seems to be less possible at this stage.
If the libs and blacks want to riot, then we can accommodate our own defense, I'm sure.
If the libs and blacks want to riot, then we can accommodate our own defense, I'm sure.
Posted by: wavynavy at October 23, 2008 07:10 AM (AZmWb)
54
Wait, wait... if your thesis is that liberals, when out of power, are likely to stage riots and attempt domestic terrorism, then why were the last eight years pretty much devoid of pissed-off left-wing yahoos stockpiling guns in the woods, referring to each other as "Major" and killing feds because they didn't recognize the government as legit, while the preceding eight had plenty of right-wing yahoos doing those things?
You seem intimately familiar with the politics and movements of the 1960s, but perhaps brushing up on more recent events would provide you with a bit of perspective. The folks in this thread nervously fondling their guns might provide a good starting point.
You seem intimately familiar with the politics and movements of the 1960s, but perhaps brushing up on more recent events would provide you with a bit of perspective. The folks in this thread nervously fondling their guns might provide a good starting point.
Posted by: grendelkhan at October 23, 2008 09:19 AM (IL7Gd)
55
Personally I think Obama will win the popular vote because he'll have high turnout in the very blue states like California, New York and Illinois. However, I believe it will be very close electorally with a potential win by McCain.
This, of course, will drive the lefties into insane rage and the media and democrats will start screaming for the elimination of the electoral college and will be whining that Obama won because he had a popular vote win.
As you know, the reason for the electoral college was to prevent a few populous states from overriding the intent of the rest of the nation, but because the media only focuses on the national polls in the coverage of the election and since that's the primary place most people go for news, those same people expect Obama to win because he's leading nationally (with 7-10 point advantage in the weighting of democrats in the polls).
To Obama voters, you need to remember the New Hampshire, California and Texas primaries, where the media was crowing about huge turnout and Obama's lead in the polls. But that huge turnout was for him, it was for Hillary who became the underdog and voters were tired of hearing about the inevitability of the wunderkind, Obama.
Remember how Obama's polls tanked after his coming out party in Berlin and after his convention coronation. Regular people don't like to be told who they have to vote for. Hillary was inevitable, Obama is said to be inevitable.
The fact of the matter is that the race is much tighter when you look at the state-by-state races especially with Obama flagging in Pennsylvania because of his comments about bitter Americans and Murtha reinforcing that view.
This, of course, will drive the lefties into insane rage and the media and democrats will start screaming for the elimination of the electoral college and will be whining that Obama won because he had a popular vote win.
As you know, the reason for the electoral college was to prevent a few populous states from overriding the intent of the rest of the nation, but because the media only focuses on the national polls in the coverage of the election and since that's the primary place most people go for news, those same people expect Obama to win because he's leading nationally (with 7-10 point advantage in the weighting of democrats in the polls).
To Obama voters, you need to remember the New Hampshire, California and Texas primaries, where the media was crowing about huge turnout and Obama's lead in the polls. But that huge turnout was for him, it was for Hillary who became the underdog and voters were tired of hearing about the inevitability of the wunderkind, Obama.
Remember how Obama's polls tanked after his coming out party in Berlin and after his convention coronation. Regular people don't like to be told who they have to vote for. Hillary was inevitable, Obama is said to be inevitable.
The fact of the matter is that the race is much tighter when you look at the state-by-state races especially with Obama flagging in Pennsylvania because of his comments about bitter Americans and Murtha reinforcing that view.
Posted by: SAM at October 23, 2008 10:12 AM (AA4pX)
56
"The folks in this thread nervously fondling their guns might provide a good starting point"
If any of us are fondling our guns it is in response to some of the very violent threats being made by Liberal trolls in this thread. They're the ones coming to one of our blogs, making threats. Not the other way around.
If any of us are fondling our guns it is in response to some of the very violent threats being made by Liberal trolls in this thread. They're the ones coming to one of our blogs, making threats. Not the other way around.
Posted by: Jayne Cobb at October 23, 2008 01:55 PM (/j9KS)
57
I'm in the mid-west. Stable economy, mostly Republican, all of us well-armed. If we win, no riots. If we lose, the dems here are pacifists. Again, no riots. However, if obama wins, my business will suffer. Wonder if I can operate it in Canada while still living here, or vice versa?
Posted by: Joe at October 23, 2008 04:16 PM (4Mn/q)
58
Anybody see the latest prices on the Obama/McCain race over at InTrade? Very interesting.
Back in 2004, they showed George Bush ahead by a few points and he ended up winning (by a few points).
Back in 2004, they showed George Bush ahead by a few points and he ended up winning (by a few points).
Posted by: PopeRatzo at October 23, 2008 04:19 PM (7t29g)
59
I hope that the blame for those injured is properly placed at the feet of the mainstream media organizations that have abandoned objectivity in order to campaign and even cheat in favor of the Democratic candidate they so clearly prefer.
The MSM are dead men walking and they know it, this election is their last hurrah and they went all in.
The silver lining in this repulsive election cycle is that ordinary citizens broke the MSM's hold on information, and that Olby's head might explode when McCain wins.
The MSM are dead men walking and they know it, this election is their last hurrah and they went all in.
The silver lining in this repulsive election cycle is that ordinary citizens broke the MSM's hold on information, and that Olby's head might explode when McCain wins.
Posted by: BJM at October 23, 2008 04:38 PM (xzxBs)
60
I truly wish that I could believe McCain would win.
However, with the total number of fraudulent voter registrations already discovered approaching 10 million and the number of states detecting massive voter fraud already over 1/4 of our Nation, as well as the discovery of tampered voting machines, it's not going to happen.
The election has already been stolen. Obama's 'election' is a fait accompli. It won't matter if all 300,000,000+ PEOPLE in the US vote for McCain, Obama will still miraculously win.
The Obama will not be ALLOWED to lose. He's going to be installed in the White House and confirmed by a Democrat Congress that is fully complicit with this on-going crime.
And we can enjoy reaching the same status as any African 'democracy' as Obama installs his new 're-education' programs.
Orion
However, with the total number of fraudulent voter registrations already discovered approaching 10 million and the number of states detecting massive voter fraud already over 1/4 of our Nation, as well as the discovery of tampered voting machines, it's not going to happen.
The election has already been stolen. Obama's 'election' is a fait accompli. It won't matter if all 300,000,000+ PEOPLE in the US vote for McCain, Obama will still miraculously win.
The Obama will not be ALLOWED to lose. He's going to be installed in the White House and confirmed by a Democrat Congress that is fully complicit with this on-going crime.
And we can enjoy reaching the same status as any African 'democracy' as Obama installs his new 're-education' programs.
Orion
Posted by: Orion at October 23, 2008 09:47 PM (8aDWK)
61
"If any of us are fondling our guns it is in response to some of the very violent threats being made by Liberal trolls in this thread."
One of us is citing recent historical fact, with illustrative reference to nearby text. The other is going entirely by what random people on the internet say. I'm not seeing why you think your prognosticatory measures are superior to mine.
"The fact of the matter is that the race is much tighter when you look at the state-by-state races especially with Obama flagging in Pennsylvania because of his comments about bitter Americans and Murtha reinforcing that view."
Flagging how? There hasn't been a single poll in that list that shows a McCain lead for the last month and a half. There's wishful thinking, and then there's just making stuff up.
One of us is citing recent historical fact, with illustrative reference to nearby text. The other is going entirely by what random people on the internet say. I'm not seeing why you think your prognosticatory measures are superior to mine.
"The fact of the matter is that the race is much tighter when you look at the state-by-state races especially with Obama flagging in Pennsylvania because of his comments about bitter Americans and Murtha reinforcing that view."
Flagging how? There hasn't been a single poll in that list that shows a McCain lead for the last month and a half. There's wishful thinking, and then there's just making stuff up.
Posted by: grendelkhan at October 24, 2008 11:03 AM (IL7Gd)
62
Sean Winter:
I will take part in whatever I feel like doing if the election is stolen.
Takes a real mensch to torch somebody's car or a shopkeeper's business and scurry away. That's just the kind of people you-all are.
I'd take schadenfreude in watching you cretins burn down your own side of town, which you usually do when (in your own minds) provoked, except that, craven capitalist that I am, I realize you'll be trashing the property and dreams of decent, hard-working people who have the misfortune of living among such as you.
And that's the kind of people we-all are.
I will take part in whatever I feel like doing if the election is stolen.
Takes a real mensch to torch somebody's car or a shopkeeper's business and scurry away. That's just the kind of people you-all are.
I'd take schadenfreude in watching you cretins burn down your own side of town, which you usually do when (in your own minds) provoked, except that, craven capitalist that I am, I realize you'll be trashing the property and dreams of decent, hard-working people who have the misfortune of living among such as you.
And that's the kind of people we-all are.
Posted by: furious at October 24, 2008 11:28 AM (c0fAX)
63
If McCain wins this article at the address below will be the reason. When this is reported on after the election there will be hell to pay.
Block The Vote
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23638322/block_the_vote
Enjoy
Leslie Garner
Block The Vote
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23638322/block_the_vote
Enjoy
Leslie Garner
Posted by: Leslie Garner at October 24, 2008 03:28 PM (Cup/2)
64
Imagine the rioting that will occur when Rev. Wright performs THE ONE's swearing in, or when Ayers is appointed Secretary of Education. I wonder how the Obamedia will react then.
Posted by: im2n2this at October 24, 2008 10:26 PM (9NWdQ)
65
The Rocky Mountain News (Denver's Conservative paper)just released a poll showing Obama up by 12 in Colorado. Thanks to Colo Springs GOP will hold on to one House seat..Musgrave will not win up north. Udall will be the new CO Senator.
It is not so much anti-McCain. It is the failure of Bush/Cheney...and Obama just connected more in this hard times.
Early voting heavy.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/24/rockycbs4-poll-obama-has-12-point-lead-state/
It is not so much anti-McCain. It is the failure of Bush/Cheney...and Obama just connected more in this hard times.
Early voting heavy.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/24/rockycbs4-poll-obama-has-12-point-lead-state/
Posted by: nogopostal at October 25, 2008 08:46 AM (vDZT3)
66
death to tyrants foreign and domestic
Posted by: rick at October 26, 2008 02:18 PM (ypguG)
67
Violence should be used in self-defense and self-defense alone. For those of you Obama supporters who implicitly threatened violence in the advent of his defeat, you stand warned: those of your opponents who would never think of rioting or otherwise act violently toward those who brought about the defeat of THEIR candidate will indeed defend themselves, and to the death if need be--both theirs and yours.
Hopefully none of this will come to pass, for it would be terrible for us all if a presidential election in the United States of America bred violence.
Perhaps it truly is time to revisit the question of secession. Maybe "blue state" Americans and "red state" Americans must go their separate ways. This, at any rate, would prove to be a peaceable and peaceful resolution of our division(s).
Hopefully none of this will come to pass, for it would be terrible for us all if a presidential election in the United States of America bred violence.
Perhaps it truly is time to revisit the question of secession. Maybe "blue state" Americans and "red state" Americans must go their separate ways. This, at any rate, would prove to be a peaceable and peaceful resolution of our division(s).
Posted by: Jack at October 27, 2008 03:53 PM (aVr70)
68
Reading the comments (and posts) here I know understand why the Republicans are losing big, they are left with foaming-at-the-mouth, conspiracy-theory-spouting racists.
Does anyone here realize that the vast majority of Americans would read this stuff and know you all are off your freaking rockers.
Does anyone here realize that the vast majority of Americans would read this stuff and know you all are off your freaking rockers.
Posted by: amazing at October 27, 2008 04:12 PM (J/7Ob)
69
"I hope that the blame for those injured is properly placed at the feet of the mainstream media organizations" -- that is the most unintentionally funny thing I have ever read on this blog.
Do you mean like the Katrina panic?
At this point the expectation is so overwhelming and so ferocious that I shudder to think of what will happen if Obama loses. The fact that I write this even though the Zogby poll coming out tomorrow (which is hardly a right-skewing poll) - puts the undecideds at 6% and the difference between Obama and McCain at about 4%. Clearly it is still possibly for McCain to win. Seems unlikely, but you never know. In this climate, its not hard to imagine hundreds of thousands of people in key swing states saying "Obama" to whoever calls them on the phone, but pulling the level for McCain. That's just the climate out there.
Do you mean like the Katrina panic?
At this point the expectation is so overwhelming and so ferocious that I shudder to think of what will happen if Obama loses. The fact that I write this even though the Zogby poll coming out tomorrow (which is hardly a right-skewing poll) - puts the undecideds at 6% and the difference between Obama and McCain at about 4%. Clearly it is still possibly for McCain to win. Seems unlikely, but you never know. In this climate, its not hard to imagine hundreds of thousands of people in key swing states saying "Obama" to whoever calls them on the phone, but pulling the level for McCain. That's just the climate out there.
Posted by: notlookinggood at October 28, 2008 01:07 AM (/SuRN)
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