1 We are fortunate that Pelosi is stupid enough to show her cards before she is called. Perhaps even House Republicans are trainable. If these doofs don't know by now that they cannot trust ANY Democrat under any circumstance and that it goes quintuple for Pelosi... well, they don't know much and have made a good case that they are unable to learn even from hard discipline. Pelosi should be in a loony bin somewhere, not Speaker of the House yet she robs and despoils this country with impunity. And on a not unrelated note, where are the House Rs on drilling? This is not only a great national issue; an issue of national security, it is one that is POISON to Democrats, top to bottom. If they cannot make hay with drilling and Fannie Mae they are worthless as a party. Props to the few who stood up for drilling over recess but that is not enough. The Democrats must be faced. This is unpalatable, believe me I know, but if you didn't want to get your hands dirty you never should have gotten on the ballot. UP and AT THEM!

2 Good, this steaming pile of excrement needs to be shown for the garbage it is.

And that goes for the bill as well.

3 You can thank the House Republicans for just giving Obama the White House.

4 The Kool-Aid has melted her synapses - she's a deranged incompetent leading a party of Evil Clowns.

5 You can thank the House Republicans for just giving Obama the White House.
Posted by mj at September 29, 2008 03:36 PM

MJ: Obama in the WH may end up like the dog who chased the fire truck and caught it. And got incinerated in the fire.

6 "You can thank the House Republicans for just giving Obama the White House."

Obama better be careful what he wishes for -- he just might get it.

7 Zhombre, the problem with incinerating Obama is that most of us will get caught in the flashover.

Pelosi wasn't being stupid, she was being smart as only a Vermin Party partisan bitch politician can be. She didn't WANT this bill to pass. She wants the larded-up Vermin Party version to pass -- and now she can get it, on a party line vote. And she gets to paint the Republicans as obstructionists into the bargain. As a result of this vote, we're going to see a complete Democrat sweep of the elections: the White House and supermajorities in both houses of Congress. The Republicans won't even have enough Senate seats to stage a filibuster anymore. More spending, more taxes, more debt, amnesty and citizenship for illegals, and a complete collapse of the US economy within fifteen years.

Goodbye, United States of America. You had a nice long run, longer than many nations do, but all good things must come to an end.

8 Reading the FNC report a few quotes tickled a synapse:
"The crisis we are facing remains," said White House Deputy Spokesman Tony Fratto, who added, "We're obviously disappointed."

Fratto said that he thinks many Americans were mistaken by believing that the bill was a "bailout of Wall Street." Instead, he said the bill was to prevent a large economic crisis.

"Nobody wants to bail out Wall Street, and we understand Americans might be opposed to bailing out Wall Street ... This is not a bailout," he said. "We hope Americans don't need to see real evidence of a break down in order to prevent a break down. " (my emphasis in bold, the quotes are consecutive paragraphs)

Since when has the US Federal Government (or state or local) done ANYTHING, with respect to a 'crisis', proactively that turned out well in the long run? I'm falling further and further into the "don't do a *darn* thing and let the market sort it out" camp due to these sorts of statements.

9 "Goodbye, United States of America. You had a nice long run, longer than many nations do, but all good things must come to an end."
Posted by wolfwalker at September 29, 2008 04:44 PM

Uhh... and where we are today is not at the fault of a Republican President*? So how does the current situation we are in reflect the situation we may be in if a democrat becomes president??
We are already losing everything, not because of a democrat, because of a lot of people on both sides, but mainly your cute little "w" YOU voted for.

*Iraq War, FEMA, Attorney General

10 Polpot, see this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

Then tell me the Democrats don't have any culpability.

(BTW, I'm back! Hope the regulars missed me!)

11 polpot, thank you for coming in to play the role of someone so historically and economically ignorant that it makes me look like Greenspan by comparison.

Bush, in April of 2001, was warning about problems with Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, and couldn't get Congress to act, and the roots of this go back to the Community Reinvestment Act... Clinton's signature is on that, isn't it?

And haven't Barney Frank and Chris Dodd been the legislators most directly involved in creating the credit risk pyramid scheme, all because of trying to pander to ACORN and other far left groups?

Socialist Democrats drove us into this, but Republicans allowed it to happen.

Meanwhile, we're in deep, deep trouble, folks.

12 And haven't Barney Frank and Chris Dodd been the legislators most directly involved in creating the credit risk pyramid scheme, all because of trying to pander to ACORN and other far left groups?
And weren't Frank and Dodd two of the biggest recipients of Fannie and Freddie donations, with Obama right in there as well? What incentive did they have to "reform" the folks that were paying them thousands?

As for being in deep, deep trouble, check out this very troubling article.

13 Why would the GOP torch a bill they considered a good bill just because Pelosi played politics and hurt their feelings? Makes no sense. Plenty of Democrats voted against it too. Should we say it is McCain's fault?

14 Where is Obama in all this mess? How is his "leadership" helping resolve the crisis?

I am confident that, should the bailout bill pass the house and move to the senate, Senator Obama stands ready to firmly vote..."present".

That's leadership you can believe in!

15 C-C-G : the info is available @ opensecrets.com.

Dodd was the #1 recipient of Fanny/Freddie largesse. Frank is down the list. Below Eric Cantor, a conservative Republican congressman, btw. The place & show spots are Obama and John Kerry.

16 Polpot, oy vey. Just.... oy.

C-C-G welcome back!

17 Zhombre
The Fannie/ Freddie donation facts are not exactly correct. The donations are from the families of employees who work for Fannie / Freddie; not from the corporations themselves. Corporations cannot give to campaigns. In this case Fannie / Freddie employee thousands of people. Some of these employees gave small donations to Obama.
One fact you are leaving out is if you look at contributions from Fannie /Freddie's boards of directors and lobbyists, you will see that they gave $169,000 to John McCain and his related committees, compared with $16,000 to Obama and his related committees.

18 Zhombre:

Don't forget that Barney Frank DID benefit significantly from Fannie (pun intended!). Check out who his former bed "partner" was employed by.

http://paxalles.blogs.com/paxalles/2008/09/barney-franks-1.html

MI

19 You can't really blame the GOP, the Dems COULD have passed it all alone. 91 Dems voted AGAINST. Pelosi blames it all on the GOP and Bush, however, the DEMS blocked increased oversight as early as 2004....that was 5 years ago sports fans....She flat out publicly lied on national TV.....can't get any more dumbassed than that. It was the Dems that devised the "rules of Regulation" that allowed this fiasco in the first place. The top 3 "takers" of campaign contributions were Dems....our heros. Obama and Kerry were #2 and #3. Just like the Social Security Fund being stuck, illegally, in the General Fund (by the Dems). Now they cry about GOP legislators NOT voting (or voting against along with 91 Dems)for a piece of legislative crap that needs lots more work. 100 pages of gobbledegook. Magnificent effort Dems! They oughta rename it as "The National Registry of Dingbats".
The GOP should take this opportunity to devise their own bill to fix this mess, being sure to mete out punishment and a demand for restitution, and make political hay.

20 I've been surprised that no one has stood up to slap Barney Frank and Chris Dodd in the chops regarding their complicity in the Fannie/Freddie fiasco. Now, we're letting them pose as the heroes of the day, saving poor ol' whomever from whatever. Since when do we allow the ones who primed the pump get away with dodging the overflow?

-jwc_

21 If that is why House Reps voted no, then they are childish idiots.

But why did 94 Dems vote no too? Pelosi hurt their feelings too?

The Reps who got themselves quoted saying the votes were lined up and then people got angry at Pelosi are real idiots.........They GAVE the media and Dems perfect silver bullet material to blame the stock market dive on them. It is inexcusable.

This vote did not break down along stick party lines. If it had, the bill would have passed. The bill did not have enough confidence to even let Pelosi line up party discipline. A lot of Dems would not sign on.

But, the blame goes to the Reps for not having 19 more people crossover? ---

--- well, yes it does, in the nation's eye -- because those Reps who pointed their finger at Pelosi's speech ---- GAVE the media and Dems the perfect tool to broadcast that view of the situation to the American people.

McCain and his campaign refuses to layout the obvious, easily verifiable, easily demonstratable case of how this crisis is tied directly to the Dems -- tied to leading Dems including Obama and to Obama's current campaign advisers - as well as tied ideologically to Dem party thinking ---- using government power to influence the private sector to make decisions that "help the poor" - like giving "affordable housing" loans ----

And the media sure as hell isn't going to lay that case out for McCain's campaign...

....and now we have Reps helping the Dems cement the blame for the crisis on not just Bush's administration but current, right-this-minute actions by the Reps.

Instead of going out and telling the American people why they would not support the substance of the bill (and why many Dems weren't on board either) ---- they let their mouthes run off and say that stupid thing about Pelosi's speech.....

........And next year, it looks like we're going to have Obama and ACORN owning Fannie Mae and much more --- so he won't even have to work at nationalizing the housing industry........

Too bad for the Dems this isn't some major insurance meltdown too....

22 Interesting analysis at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdGpxUEN4RU

23 Unfortunately, I fear that the defeat of this bill plays into the hands of the radical Leftist wing of the Democrat party, a wing which has grown larger, angrier, and more radical over the past 8 years of their humiliation. Now, as they blame "free market failures" for the catastrophe wrought by *their own failed multi-culti/socialist policies*, they seek to expand and deepen these mistakes, regardless of the damage they do to the country. Today's record drop on Wall Street, blamed entirely on Republicans by the MSM - is hardly the limit of what they are willing to do. (Much more, for the interested, on my blog.

Does anyone honestly think that the Democrat plan is really just to give money to save private enterprises? Come on. Listen to what they say, openly, even now. Marx said that the first step towards Communism "is to raise the proletariat [modern Leftist translation: the elite Leftist bien pessant] to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy." First you take the elections - under cover, and, with ACORN and the NAACP's help: by any means necessary - then you tear down the "imperialist" free market economy. They have the House and the Senate, and the White House is nearly in the grasp of the closet radical Obama, and his openly anti-American, pro-Communist supporters. Already, supposedly mainstream "liberal" economists are discussing nationalizing the entire financial sector. Why bother raising taxes when you can just take over all the banks?

Ninety-plus of the most extreme Leftist Democrats in Congress voted against this bill. Now they have the upper hand. Any bill still has to get through the Senate, and the President (who sometimes remembers he is a Republican), slo we won't see the worst for a few months yet. But if Ayers' great comrade Obama takes the White House, the Socialist, or even - this seems extreme, but I use this word advisedly - Communist program of the "moderate" Democrats will be pushed far, far beyond anything which timid, establishment conservatives dare to imagine.

Sorry for the long post - I'm normally not so wordy - but it is terribly important for we conservatives to understand the big picture here. These people have been seething from their defeats when Bush and the Republicans were strong, and have grown terribly bitter, radical, and unhinged. I've been watching politics, and involved in politics, for well over 20 years, and I've seen a lot of moonbat Leftist nonsense in my day. But I can't recall anytime when so many people, so radical, so angry, and completely without principle, have been so close to the highest power in the land. The MSM is oblivious, by choice, but it seems that far, far too many conservatives are unable or unwilling to see what is happening right in front of them. We've only got a few weeks to head off this catastrophe. we can't do it with our heads in the sand.

24 Willmoore, your are talking yourself in circles. First the liberals are responsible for unintentionally causing the market to crash:

"Now, as they blame "free market failures" for the catastrophe wrought by *their own failed multi-culti/socialist policies."

Somehow, over regulation of the market led to this crisis? But you also say that that these liberal commies are trying to crash the market:

"Marx said that the first step towards Communism "is to raise the proletariat. . . then you tear down the "imperialist" free market economy."

Which is it Willmoore? Sadly, you make the MSM and even liberals (to a degree) look like they are talking sense. your ideas are pure "moonbat nonsense."

25 "Somehow, over regulation of the market led to this crisis?"

Is that what he said? I'd take it he meant what I said above - that it was the push to use government power to put pressure on private enterprise to make risky loans to lower income people to buy "affordable homes" that led to the crisis.

Anyway...

Somewhere in the same ballpark of this discussion is this article at American Thinker:

www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

A week ago, I'd have dismissed it out of hand.

Now, I'm not so sure. It is at least worth considering. Especially when you start looking a Ayers and things he's been saying for years and even recently....he calls himself a communist with a little c.....

One thing is for sure -- the current crisis was caused by the Dems - and it is going to give government - whoever has the upper hand in 2009 - much more power over the financial markets.

26 Somehow, over regulation of the market led to this crisis? But you also say that that these liberal commies are trying to crash the market...

Willess, of course over-regulation led to this crisis. Pull your head out of the NY Times. Here's a secret: Democrats do not like free markets. Free markets prove Marxism is a lie. They seek to undermine them. They do this through regulation. They seek to eliminate them. They do this through nationalization. This isn't some theory I made up. This is exactly what they are planning to do, out in the open, while conservatives argue amongst themselves and agree with Barbara Lee, Dennis Kucinich, and the farthest-left wing of the Democratic party. They intend to use the crisis to enact a socialist/communist agenda while the populace is in "shock" from the economic effects caused by their failed socialist program. Here is one of an endless number of examples:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=a_liberal_shock_doctrine

The liberal blogosphere, liberal political magazines, and the liberal policy class are ablaze with this kind of talk, but most people can't even be bothered to notice. The Democrats do not want to save Wall Street, they want to devour it. So-called "conservatives", like yourself, find this too scary, so they ignore it, and pretend it makes no sense, despite the fact that it could not be simpler or more apparent. How could this possibly be simpler? How could they make it any more obvious for you? The point of Democrat economics is render capitalism non-functional, and eliminate it entirely, to absorb the economy into the State, which they will control. People who dare to look at things as they are, and who are interested in what the governing philosophy of the Obama/Ayers administration will aspire to should read Thomas Sowell's "Marxism: Philosophy and Economics", which is a very readable and illuminating treatment of the fountain from which Obama, his 60's radical friends, and the ascendant Leftist power structure of the Democrat party draw their ideas. Fake conservatives like the aptly-named Willless should continue to express open-mouthed astonishment at the proposition that the Sun will rise tomorrow morning.

27 Folks who are honestly confused as to how Democrat over-regulation caused this mess should watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EyKiOE78yU

Although some have suggested it, I personally doubt that the Democrats planned this wwhole thing out. (I mean, if they were that smart, why would they be Democrats?) But they are cunning and devious enough to use every failure to their advantage, and the Republicans - and especially McCain and the sleepwalking Bush - are lost and confused. You can't trust them to do the smart thing, and you can't trust the MSM to tell you the truth. Educate yourselves, for your country's sake.

28 That article is a fantastic find, usinkorea.

29 Jesse Jackson, Jr. voted no.
What does that tell you?

30 If some Republicans were "holding their nose", but voting for the bill, then Pelosi's speech would be enough to make them bail.

The Democrats made the bill fail. 94 voted against it. If only 82 had voted against it, the bill would have passed.

31 It is way past time for all taxpayers to say that they are not going to go along with this fraud of a bail out. We pay our taxes, we pay our bills on time. Mrs. Pelosi is a person who has achieved nothing - she is full of herself, and her hatred of all Republicans and should be fired. Mr. Obama, Mr. Frank, Mr. Dodd all insisted that loans be made to those who should not get them. Obama worked for Acorn to intimidate banks and loan companies who would not give these loans out.