It's Official: Beauchamp's Claims Debunked by Army Internal Investigation
Col. Steven Boylan, Public Affairs Officer for U.S. Army Commanding General in Iraq David Petraeus, just emailed me the following in response to my request to confirm an earlier report that the U.S. Army's investigation into the claims made by PV-2 Scott Thomas Beauchamp made in The New Republic had been completed.
He states:Let's look at that once more: "members of Thomas' platoon and company were all interviewed and no one could substantiate his claims." Presumably thorough, in-person interviews of all of Alpha Company, 1/18 Infantry, Second Brigade Combat Team, First Infantry Division, and Beauchamp's platoon within Alpha Company by military investigators, and not one of those soldiers could confirm Beauchamp's stories as told in The New Republic. Note that the investigation didn't just stop by stating that the claims were uncorroborated; Col. Boylan states categorically that Beauchamp's allegations were false. Not a lot of wiggle room there. It appears that the proverbial ball is now in The New Republic's court. It will be interesting to see what their next move will be.
To your question: Were there any truth to what was being said by
Thomas? Answer: An investigation of the allegations were conducted by the
command and found to be false. In fact, members of Thomas' platoon and
company were all interviewed and no one could substantiate his claims. As to what will happen to him? Answer: As there is no evidence of criminal conduct, he is subject to
Administrative punishment as determined by his chain of command. Under
the various rules and regulations, administrative actions are not
releasable to the public by the military on what does or does not
happen.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at 11:30 PM
Comments
1
The spin will be that this is obviously a cover-up. You can't trust the Army to actually investigate itself. Now that they've had time to get to the other platoon members, they will have intimidated them in to silence.
When Beauchamp gets out, he'll fall in to the arms of a sympathetic left that will still find his lying narrative too compelling to let go of.
He'll stand up at next year's Kos convention to huge "truth to power" applause while wearing reamnants of the uniform he's tried to dirty.
When Beauchamp gets out, he'll fall in to the arms of a sympathetic left that will still find his lying narrative too compelling to let go of.
He'll stand up at next year's Kos convention to huge "truth to power" applause while wearing reamnants of the uniform he's tried to dirty.
Posted by: iamnot at August 04, 2007 12:03 AM (WuvmZ)
2
Excellent work, Bob. I added an excerpt and link to my 2007.08.04 Long War // Dhimm Perfidy Roundup.
Excellent work, Bob. I added an excerpt and link to my 2007.08.04 Long War // Dhimm Perfidy Roundup.
Posted by: Bill Faith at August 04, 2007 12:20 AM (n7SaI)
3
TNR, The New Republic, went on vacation for 3 weeks.
I'm sure when they come back, at the end of August, with their "next" issue; they'll consider this matter "closed.
I doubt they'll try to beat the army's way of investigating this crap of lies.
TNR also has to contend with Shattered Glass; the movie. And, you can see a trailer for this one. Where they were caught publishing a liar's lies. INSIDE THE "NEWS ROOM" indeed.
For a bunch of elites who make their livings from the MSM, you'd think they'd have learned something from Dan Rather's "fake but accurate" rendition of "it's not the truth, but if you're mentally ill, you can believe it."
I'm sure when they come back, at the end of August, with their "next" issue; they'll consider this matter "closed.
I doubt they'll try to beat the army's way of investigating this crap of lies.
TNR also has to contend with Shattered Glass; the movie. And, you can see a trailer for this one. Where they were caught publishing a liar's lies. INSIDE THE "NEWS ROOM" indeed.
For a bunch of elites who make their livings from the MSM, you'd think they'd have learned something from Dan Rather's "fake but accurate" rendition of "it's not the truth, but if you're mentally ill, you can believe it."
Posted by: Carol Herman at August 04, 2007 12:23 AM (KWhzz)
4
Expect the Left to use the Tillman argument to try and discredit the Army's claims regarding Beauchamp.
Posted by: Kaitain at August 04, 2007 12:25 AM (4ep6C)
5
Well, that's important news, but it still leaves a lot of questions unanswered.
Most importantly, what did Beauchamp himself have to say? I would have imagined he was questioned, and whether under oath or not (it being the military I imagine there is an implied sanction for not answering truthfully) he either repeated his claims or he recanted them.
If he repeated them under official questioning, it seems to me he would be making a number of serious charges that fellow servicemembers violated the UCMJ, and that if he made false accusations in an official investigation, he would be criminally liable himself perjury or disobeying an order to give a truthful account, or whatever. Also of great interest is what evidence, if any, Beauchamp offered to support his accusations.
If he recanted his allegations, there is no hint of such so far.
What is described sounds like only half of the investigation I would have expected.
Most importantly, what did Beauchamp himself have to say? I would have imagined he was questioned, and whether under oath or not (it being the military I imagine there is an implied sanction for not answering truthfully) he either repeated his claims or he recanted them.
If he repeated them under official questioning, it seems to me he would be making a number of serious charges that fellow servicemembers violated the UCMJ, and that if he made false accusations in an official investigation, he would be criminally liable himself perjury or disobeying an order to give a truthful account, or whatever. Also of great interest is what evidence, if any, Beauchamp offered to support his accusations.
If he recanted his allegations, there is no hint of such so far.
What is described sounds like only half of the investigation I would have expected.
Posted by: LagunaDave at August 04, 2007 12:34 AM (PkttR)
6
S. C. R. E. W. what the left comes up with to spin out their little circle jerk of lies - no progressive fretted over fall out of their retarded frenzy over the Ben blogger at Washington Post!
Screw them - they lost. Most are on record blindly (not reading reports) and reflectively supporting TNR and defaulting to their typical homophobic "we hate gay position" when we have no argument -- so SCEEWWEEWWW the ever living daylights of them - eat crow, big fat beefy ugly chicken size rats with wings.
Screw them - they lost. Most are on record blindly (not reading reports) and reflectively supporting TNR and defaulting to their typical homophobic "we hate gay position" when we have no argument -- so SCEEWWEEWWW the ever living daylights of them - eat crow, big fat beefy ugly chicken size rats with wings.
Posted by: Cruz at August 04, 2007 01:00 AM (mZEoF)
7
Not too important how the LLLibs spin it. The Army has witnesses willing to sign their names, under oath, to affidavits after investigation.
TNR has NOTHING OF THE SORT, even after publishing claims to have 'corroborated' every aspect, including forensics.
TNR = No Names to corroborate
US ARMY = Dozens of names, dates, affidavits...
TNR has NOTHING OF THE SORT, even after publishing claims to have 'corroborated' every aspect, including forensics.
TNR = No Names to corroborate
US ARMY = Dozens of names, dates, affidavits...
Posted by: Karridine at August 04, 2007 01:07 AM (Xl4L3)
8
Wait just a dang minute! Scott Thomas Beauchamp exists and he's a U.S. soldier stationed in Iraq. Matt Sanchez is a former gay porn star who has been investigated for fraud.
What does the above have to do with the crap that TNR supposedly fact checked and then published as the truth and then rechecked and admitted only a "minor" error with on Thursday? Absolutely nothing. Beauchamp lied. TNR fell for it. Lefty supporters of the meme can stop desperately grasping at straws to protect the narrative.
Thank you for your persistance Bob.
What does the above have to do with the crap that TNR supposedly fact checked and then published as the truth and then rechecked and admitted only a "minor" error with on Thursday? Absolutely nothing. Beauchamp lied. TNR fell for it. Lefty supporters of the meme can stop desperately grasping at straws to protect the narrative.
Thank you for your persistance Bob.
Posted by: daleyrocks at August 04, 2007 01:31 AM (0pZel)
9
I think TNR knew the outcome of the Army's investigation before they wrote their latest CYA. They released it when they did to beat the Army to the punch and ensured it was vague enough to provide rhetorical wiggle room. I'm sure Franky Foer, et al., plan to treat Beauchump as yesterday's news three weeks hence.
Sorry Foer, but we don't forget so easily.
Sorry Foer, but we don't forget so easily.
Posted by: Exurban Jon at August 04, 2007 01:56 AM (3GwKL)
10
HOOAH!
This DAV never bought the ***@&^@**@^&% anyway.
I DID read where the Leftinistra Moonbats in the Moonbat Belfries have stated that "Naturally, they protect their own".
I see a double negative and the usual double standard there. You?
Wouldn't protecting their own from the Big Bad Generals and the Upper Echelon require CONFIRMATION from his fellow soldiers?
Morons.
This DAV never bought the ***@&^@**@^&% anyway.
I DID read where the Leftinistra Moonbats in the Moonbat Belfries have stated that "Naturally, they protect their own".
I see a double negative and the usual double standard there. You?
Wouldn't protecting their own from the Big Bad Generals and the Upper Echelon require CONFIRMATION from his fellow soldiers?
Morons.
Posted by: Snooper at August 04, 2007 05:04 AM (NUKxz)
11
Although this has been alot of fun to joke and make fun about TNRs stupidity. This is also a very seriou issue. Some nut keeps claiming Beauchamp was a soldier, and he clearly wasn't.
Ohh sure, he joined the army, trained, went to Iraq, but he was never a real soldier, he was a writer that wanted a free ride to a war zone to have credibility when he wrote his great novel.
He never believed the oath he took, he never took any of it to heart.
The real investigation TNR should conduct is who did Beauchamp and his idiot buddies get killed.
If you actually believe his stories, then clearly he put other troops in danger repeatedly. There's very good reason for order and discipline in the military, its because everyone else depends on you, even with their lives.
Now I am not saying that Beauchamp actually killed anyone, but we have no way of knowing what events occurred due to his activities. For instance:
Did the women Beauchamp claimed he verbal abused and assaulted go back to work? Was she on duty when necessary or did she spend the afternoon crying with a friend? Did her duties get done, did someone else have to make up the slack. Was she integral to a mission, was she needed to provide support to guys in the field? There are a hundred other things that could have gone wrong due to Beauchamps claimed actions, including soldiers getting killed.
And in the Bradley story, did some Iraqi store owner see the Bradley barrelling down his street running into things and generally being a complete as-hole. Did that Iraqi later hear a conversation of guys in his shop planning to plant an IED on a convoy route. Or did he know his cousin had signed up to attack a checkpoint in a few days. He doesn't much like the Americans being there but he will tolerate it as long as progress is being made. DOES HE DECIDE NOT TO CALL IN A TIP TO THE IRAGI POLICE, OR THE FOB. How many Americans die in that IED blast, or that attack because Beauchamp didn't set his idiot buddy straight on how you act in someone elses house.
Maybe it didn't happen, but if these idiots continued this stuff for their full tour, somebody would have been killed or injured, someone else's back wasn't being watched, someones support would be delayed, someone wasn't paying attention and a sniper got a drop, or an ambush was successful.
Beauchamp was never a real soldier, he was more interested in writing stories then having his head in the game, and he allowed others around him to also fail their comrades. Those people get others killed, but Foer and his gang would never understand that. They think its a big gotcha game.
Perhaps Mr. Foer would like to escort a fallen soldiers casket home to his family and he could regale them in how great it was to have the guy that was supposed to be watching his back, instead taking notes or acting out in order to get a story published.
You notice the first thing Foer did when he had a perceived problem in his troop (leaker reported diarist was married to someone at TNR), he got rid of them to maintain good order and discipline within TNR. To bad he didn't give the Army the same choice, he knowingly had them keep someone who wasn't doing his duty to the best of his ability, so he could get some juicy stories.
They all make me sick.
Ohh sure, he joined the army, trained, went to Iraq, but he was never a real soldier, he was a writer that wanted a free ride to a war zone to have credibility when he wrote his great novel.
He never believed the oath he took, he never took any of it to heart.
The real investigation TNR should conduct is who did Beauchamp and his idiot buddies get killed.
If you actually believe his stories, then clearly he put other troops in danger repeatedly. There's very good reason for order and discipline in the military, its because everyone else depends on you, even with their lives.
Now I am not saying that Beauchamp actually killed anyone, but we have no way of knowing what events occurred due to his activities. For instance:
Did the women Beauchamp claimed he verbal abused and assaulted go back to work? Was she on duty when necessary or did she spend the afternoon crying with a friend? Did her duties get done, did someone else have to make up the slack. Was she integral to a mission, was she needed to provide support to guys in the field? There are a hundred other things that could have gone wrong due to Beauchamps claimed actions, including soldiers getting killed.
And in the Bradley story, did some Iraqi store owner see the Bradley barrelling down his street running into things and generally being a complete as-hole. Did that Iraqi later hear a conversation of guys in his shop planning to plant an IED on a convoy route. Or did he know his cousin had signed up to attack a checkpoint in a few days. He doesn't much like the Americans being there but he will tolerate it as long as progress is being made. DOES HE DECIDE NOT TO CALL IN A TIP TO THE IRAGI POLICE, OR THE FOB. How many Americans die in that IED blast, or that attack because Beauchamp didn't set his idiot buddy straight on how you act in someone elses house.
Maybe it didn't happen, but if these idiots continued this stuff for their full tour, somebody would have been killed or injured, someone else's back wasn't being watched, someones support would be delayed, someone wasn't paying attention and a sniper got a drop, or an ambush was successful.
Beauchamp was never a real soldier, he was more interested in writing stories then having his head in the game, and he allowed others around him to also fail their comrades. Those people get others killed, but Foer and his gang would never understand that. They think its a big gotcha game.
Perhaps Mr. Foer would like to escort a fallen soldiers casket home to his family and he could regale them in how great it was to have the guy that was supposed to be watching his back, instead taking notes or acting out in order to get a story published.
You notice the first thing Foer did when he had a perceived problem in his troop (leaker reported diarist was married to someone at TNR), he got rid of them to maintain good order and discipline within TNR. To bad he didn't give the Army the same choice, he knowingly had them keep someone who wasn't doing his duty to the best of his ability, so he could get some juicy stories.
They all make me sick.
Posted by: Poppy at August 04, 2007 07:54 AM (dJFjD)
12
Another comment that always gets me is the, 'How dare you question my actions, honor, truthfulness, etc., I was in the war, etc'
John Kerry is famous for this excuse, and Beauchamp appears to have been giving him a run for the title.
But in the real world, soldiers never use this excuse, they know their actions will be questioned and they are prepared to defend them
or to step up and admit they screwed up and will do better next time.
You never see a soldier go before his Squad leader, Commander etc. and say, "How dare you question me".
As soon as they do that, you know its a liberal whiner with an excuse.
John Kerry is famous for this excuse, and Beauchamp appears to have been giving him a run for the title.
But in the real world, soldiers never use this excuse, they know their actions will be questioned and they are prepared to defend them
or to step up and admit they screwed up and will do better next time.
You never see a soldier go before his Squad leader, Commander etc. and say, "How dare you question me".
As soon as they do that, you know its a liberal whiner with an excuse.
Posted by: Poppy at August 04, 2007 08:13 AM (dJFjD)
13
Beauchamp lied TNR died
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at August 04, 2007 09:05 AM (Lgw9b)
14
I am just sick to death of these fools and their agenda. There needs to be consequences for both Beauchamp and TNR.
Why are they allowed to disseminate lies and go unpunished?
Thank God for the blogs.
Why are they allowed to disseminate lies and go unpunished?
Thank God for the blogs.
Posted by: dianainsa at August 04, 2007 10:36 AM (t7XCC)
15
The Army also initially said Jessica Lynch went down fighting and Pat Tillman died due to enemy fire, so I think it's a little early to be claiming vindication.
Posted by: N.C. at August 04, 2007 10:53 AM (okirY)
16
There's a little something in the latest from TNR (https://ssl.tnr.com/p/docsub.mhtml?i=20070723&s=diarist072307) that I haven't seen any other blog pick up yet, and BLACKFIVE and company might handle it best.
TNR: “On the phone, this soldier later told us that he had witnessed another soldier wearing the skull fragment just as Beauchamp recounted…”
Just as Beauchamp recounted in ‘Shock Troops’ was as follows:
“One private, infamous as a joker and troublemaker, found the top part of a human skull…”
To my admittedly decades old experience, based on time in service and training requirements, few soldiers in our army are shipped anywhere overseas, be it to Germany or Iraq, before attaining to the rank of at least PFC (Private First Class). Almost a year ago, on his own blog, Beauchamp stated his rank was that of PFC (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/07/pvt_beauchamp_in_big_trouble_e.html), and not the lower rank he is now, Private. That indicates a probable loss of rank, or, some kind of, er, ‘trouble’ he got into, noted by quite a few. I would seriously expect that there would be very few privates in Beauchamp’s unit, Alpha Company, 1/18 Infantry, Second Brigade Combat Team, First Infantry Division. That Beauchamp himself described the man who desecrated the dead child’s remains as both a private and someone who was ‘infamous as a joker and troublemaker’ leads me to ask, especially the folks at TNR….infamous in the sense that he would also mock a woman disfigured by an IED - for laughs, and a troublemaker as in – he was busted in rank? Did the soldier TNR spoke with on the phone who told TNR ‘that he had witnessed another soldier wearing the skull fragment’ indicate that the soldier doing so was Beauchamp, or was the identity of that soldier even asked about?
We now have it supposedly confirmed, with the admission by Beuachamp, that he mocked a disfigured woman while in Kuwait, well before he was 'dehumanized' by war. I have little trouble imagining that someone who would claim he did so to a disfigured woman could be the same kind of a--wipe that would enjoy some fun with the remains of a dead child.
TNR: “On the phone, this soldier later told us that he had witnessed another soldier wearing the skull fragment just as Beauchamp recounted…”
Just as Beauchamp recounted in ‘Shock Troops’ was as follows:
“One private, infamous as a joker and troublemaker, found the top part of a human skull…”
To my admittedly decades old experience, based on time in service and training requirements, few soldiers in our army are shipped anywhere overseas, be it to Germany or Iraq, before attaining to the rank of at least PFC (Private First Class). Almost a year ago, on his own blog, Beauchamp stated his rank was that of PFC (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/07/pvt_beauchamp_in_big_trouble_e.html), and not the lower rank he is now, Private. That indicates a probable loss of rank, or, some kind of, er, ‘trouble’ he got into, noted by quite a few. I would seriously expect that there would be very few privates in Beauchamp’s unit, Alpha Company, 1/18 Infantry, Second Brigade Combat Team, First Infantry Division. That Beauchamp himself described the man who desecrated the dead child’s remains as both a private and someone who was ‘infamous as a joker and troublemaker’ leads me to ask, especially the folks at TNR….infamous in the sense that he would also mock a woman disfigured by an IED - for laughs, and a troublemaker as in – he was busted in rank? Did the soldier TNR spoke with on the phone who told TNR ‘that he had witnessed another soldier wearing the skull fragment’ indicate that the soldier doing so was Beauchamp, or was the identity of that soldier even asked about?
We now have it supposedly confirmed, with the admission by Beuachamp, that he mocked a disfigured woman while in Kuwait, well before he was 'dehumanized' by war. I have little trouble imagining that someone who would claim he did so to a disfigured woman could be the same kind of a--wipe that would enjoy some fun with the remains of a dead child.
Posted by: Denis Keohane at August 04, 2007 11:08 AM (XKRTZ)
17
n.c. - yes, you're correct about Lynch and Tillman. Doesn't mean the Army IS "covering up" here. And all we have to substantiate Beauchamp's claims are "annonymous" sources. And, of course his wife.
And it still leaves open the question that IF what he said is true, why did he violate his oath and not report these things?
BTW, I served (combat infantry)in Vietnam and saw LOTS of terrible things, but never saw anyone get away with it. Not once.
And it still leaves open the question that IF what he said is true, why did he violate his oath and not report these things?
BTW, I served (combat infantry)in Vietnam and saw LOTS of terrible things, but never saw anyone get away with it. Not once.
Posted by: realwest at August 04, 2007 11:10 AM (6vywl)
18
Oops...
...the age and onslaught of decreptitude thing...
Got to Confederate Yankee via a link at BLACKFIVE, and posted the previous comment thinking I was still at that site! Apologies to CY!
...the age and onslaught of decreptitude thing...
Got to Confederate Yankee via a link at BLACKFIVE, and posted the previous comment thinking I was still at that site! Apologies to CY!
Posted by: Denis Keohane at August 04, 2007 11:12 AM (XKRTZ)
19
I think the key question to ask here is who's interests are at stake. Obviously, TNR wants to maintain their legitimacy (what they have left of it), so they're going to claim that this is a cover-up and that other soldiers confirmed Beauchamp's story. That's a no brainer.
On the other hand, the Army also has a vested interest in claiming that Beauchamp's story is false. If it was true, it would just help to make an already unpopular war look worse in the eyes of civilians. So the Army will deny the claims. This too, is a no brainer.
The point is, don't jump to conclusions. I'm not defending TNR, I just think all of this should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism. After all, skepticism is what brought attention to this issue in the first place.
On the other hand, the Army also has a vested interest in claiming that Beauchamp's story is false. If it was true, it would just help to make an already unpopular war look worse in the eyes of civilians. So the Army will deny the claims. This too, is a no brainer.
The point is, don't jump to conclusions. I'm not defending TNR, I just think all of this should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism. After all, skepticism is what brought attention to this issue in the first place.
Posted by: keram at August 04, 2007 11:14 AM (GEJUM)
20
Its march 1, 2006 and a Marine just back from Iraq made a few posts at Democratic Underground. He had been a DU member before going to Iraq and initially was treated as a returning hero. Unfortunately he didnt validate the notion that US troops routinely committed atrocitiesagree with the hive mind of Democratic Underground.
He was repeatedly asked to corroborate reports of American troop atrocities and corruption and he said no, the reports were false. The general attitude to him changed abruptly and he was banned. Is it really any wonder so many on the left are perceived as such vile scum?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x546932#546959
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=154844
At the time I was reading that thread as it happened. It was sickening to see how they turned on him, ostensibly one of their own, just because he wouldnt tell them what they wanted to hear. I was a member of a conservative political discussion forum at the time and we got a message to him asking him to stop by. He did and he was treated respectfully and repeatedly thanked for his service to our country. The difference in the way he was treated, even by people that generally disagreed with his Democrat ideas, was striking.
Heres an interesting take on it at the DUmmie Funnies the day after.
http://dummiefunnies.blogspot.com/2006/03/dummie-funnies-03-02-06-i-just-got.html
The right side of the aisle is obviously not as pure as the driven snow. But I think we do a much better job of keeping our own house in order than the Democrats do.
The Democratic leadership refuses to even consider distancing itself, let alone disagreeing, with such extreme leftist sites like Democratic Underground and Daily Kos. And as long as they continue to pander to such places, and the blogosphere continues to expose the stench of those places to everyday moderate Americans, the Democrats will make themselves less and less relevant.
He was repeatedly asked to corroborate reports of American troop atrocities and corruption and he said no, the reports were false. The general attitude to him changed abruptly and he was banned. Is it really any wonder so many on the left are perceived as such vile scum?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x546932#546959
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=154844
At the time I was reading that thread as it happened. It was sickening to see how they turned on him, ostensibly one of their own, just because he wouldnt tell them what they wanted to hear. I was a member of a conservative political discussion forum at the time and we got a message to him asking him to stop by. He did and he was treated respectfully and repeatedly thanked for his service to our country. The difference in the way he was treated, even by people that generally disagreed with his Democrat ideas, was striking.
Heres an interesting take on it at the DUmmie Funnies the day after.
http://dummiefunnies.blogspot.com/2006/03/dummie-funnies-03-02-06-i-just-got.html
The right side of the aisle is obviously not as pure as the driven snow. But I think we do a much better job of keeping our own house in order than the Democrats do.
The Democratic leadership refuses to even consider distancing itself, let alone disagreeing, with such extreme leftist sites like Democratic Underground and Daily Kos. And as long as they continue to pander to such places, and the blogosphere continues to expose the stench of those places to everyday moderate Americans, the Democrats will make themselves less and less relevant.
Posted by: Rico at August 04, 2007 11:15 AM (Axsbs)
21
N.C. and realwest - I hate to burst your bubble, but the media jumped the gun and created the Jessica Lynch myth, not the military. Do some homework.
Posted by: daleyrocks at August 04, 2007 11:29 AM (0pZel)
22
Let's get some official statement, then comment.
Posted by: TCO at August 04, 2007 11:34 AM (1UMjQ)
23
Good work Bob.
Posted by: Matt Sanchez at August 04, 2007 11:41 AM (ms3nF)
24
The Army also initially said Jessica Lynch went down fighting and Pat Tillman died due to enemy fire, so I think it's a little early to be claiming vindication.
Concerning Jessica Lynch, this is a lie. No official source from the Army ever claimed any such thing about Lynch. The original report was leaked to the media from an anonymous, unofficial source (sort of like Beauchamp), and the Army refused to award Lynch the medals the Democratic senators from West Virginia were demanding she get, until their investigation was complete. It was the Army who ultimately revealed the truth about Lynch's capture.
As for Tillman, again, the Army command eventually uncovered and revealed the truth after someone lower on the totem pole made a false report (sort of like Beauchamp). And those responsible for the false report were eventually held to account (sort of like Beauchamp, I hope).
The Army also initially said Jessica Lynch went down fighting and Pat Tillman died due to enemy fire, so I think it's a little early to be claiming vindication.
Concerning Jessica Lynch, this is a lie. No official source from the Army ever claimed any such thing about Lynch. The original report was leaked to the media from an anonymous, unofficial source (sort of like Beauchamp), and the Army refused to award Lynch the medals the Democratic senators from West Virginia were demanding she get, until their investigation was complete. It was the Army who ultimately revealed the truth about Lynch's capture.
As for Tillman, again, the Army command eventually uncovered and revealed the truth after someone lower on the totem pole made a false report (sort of like Beauchamp). And those responsible for the false report were eventually held to account (sort of like Beauchamp, I hope).
Posted by: LagunaDave at August 04, 2007 12:00 PM (PkttR)
25
Re: Jessica Lynch.
Her "heroism" occured initially in only one place, in an anonymous-sourced Page One article in the Washington Post, by Dana Priest.
Either Priest made up the story, or she actually had a source who made up the story, but she has preserved the anonymity of the "source" that "burned" her, indicating to me that there probably never was a source. The Post is the fondest of "anonymous" sources of all major papers, and you could do worse than assuming that an anonymous source is really the reporter talking, as in the way "experts say" usually means "my opinion is, but I haven't the nerve to assert it without this fig leaf of cover."
This incident, where TNR editor Stephen Glass uncritically accepted Beauchump's "there I was, no $#!+" tales as true, is typical of the confirmation biases in the journosphere. Journalists are human and like to see their biases (which they may not even recognise as biases) confirmed as much as any other human.
Where Glass messed up is when he doubled down on Beauchump, and told several different and self-contradictory stories about his "fact-checking," which probably never happened until Michael Goldfarb called him out on it.
We all watched Glass stumble, and mumble, and look like a fool. The one thing Glass acted decisively on was in firing a staffer who leaked the fact that Beauchump was Mrs Elspeth Reeve, a fact Glass was trying desperately to keep secret.
(That, by the way, also exposes Reeve as a typical practitioner of TNR-style journalism, in at least two stories predating her stint at TNR where she quotes Beauchump as man-in-the-street or man-in-the-event in the story, without mentioning that, oh by the way, he's banging her, and they went to the event together).
Oh, did I say Glass? I meant Franklin Foer. My bad. Understandable error, though, innit?
And journalists wonder why they're the least popular profession.
Her "heroism" occured initially in only one place, in an anonymous-sourced Page One article in the Washington Post, by Dana Priest.
Either Priest made up the story, or she actually had a source who made up the story, but she has preserved the anonymity of the "source" that "burned" her, indicating to me that there probably never was a source. The Post is the fondest of "anonymous" sources of all major papers, and you could do worse than assuming that an anonymous source is really the reporter talking, as in the way "experts say" usually means "my opinion is, but I haven't the nerve to assert it without this fig leaf of cover."
This incident, where TNR editor Stephen Glass uncritically accepted Beauchump's "there I was, no $#!+" tales as true, is typical of the confirmation biases in the journosphere. Journalists are human and like to see their biases (which they may not even recognise as biases) confirmed as much as any other human.
Where Glass messed up is when he doubled down on Beauchump, and told several different and self-contradictory stories about his "fact-checking," which probably never happened until Michael Goldfarb called him out on it.
We all watched Glass stumble, and mumble, and look like a fool. The one thing Glass acted decisively on was in firing a staffer who leaked the fact that Beauchump was Mrs Elspeth Reeve, a fact Glass was trying desperately to keep secret.
(That, by the way, also exposes Reeve as a typical practitioner of TNR-style journalism, in at least two stories predating her stint at TNR where she quotes Beauchump as man-in-the-street or man-in-the-event in the story, without mentioning that, oh by the way, he's banging her, and they went to the event together).
Oh, did I say Glass? I meant Franklin Foer. My bad. Understandable error, though, innit?
And journalists wonder why they're the least popular profession.
Posted by: Kevin R.C. 'Hognose' O'Brien at August 04, 2007 12:04 PM (LkeNv)
26
iamnot is right on the mark. Not only will he believe his lies, but he could be a future congressional representative from Massachusetts
Posted by: sako3006 at August 04, 2007 12:25 PM (XpEQ7)
27
There's a scene in The Simpsons Movie where Fat Tony ,the Mob boss, plans to dump a body in a lake, but police catches him. Fat Tony says he'll just have to take his 'hedge trimmings' elsewhere.
Lou tells Chief Wiggum he thinks it was a dead body Tony was holding.
Wiggum says "I thought so too, until he said they were hedge trimmings".
You, citizen journalists on the far right, are like Chief Wiggum.
Lou tells Chief Wiggum he thinks it was a dead body Tony was holding.
Wiggum says "I thought so too, until he said they were hedge trimmings".
You, citizen journalists on the far right, are like Chief Wiggum.
Posted by: lulzy at August 04, 2007 01:16 PM (1pIQs)
28
Betraying their ignorance of military matters, morons on the left are baffled over how an investigation involving a platoon could be completed so quickly when it took so long to complete inquiries into Abu Ghraib and Haditha.
D'oh! It's obvious the entire platoon was waterboarded and intimidated into slanting their testimony against rigorously fact-checked TNR and Beauchamp who had no motivation to lie.
No common sense in these lefties at all. I think the fatalities and injuries reported in Beauchamp's pieces slowed the process down and increaded the number of witnesses to be interviewed. Otherwise it would have been over sooner.
Mental giants they are not.
D'oh! It's obvious the entire platoon was waterboarded and intimidated into slanting their testimony against rigorously fact-checked TNR and Beauchamp who had no motivation to lie.
No common sense in these lefties at all. I think the fatalities and injuries reported in Beauchamp's pieces slowed the process down and increaded the number of witnesses to be interviewed. Otherwise it would have been over sooner.
Mental giants they are not.
Posted by: daleyrocks at August 04, 2007 01:16 PM (0pZel)
Posted by: TMF at August 04, 2007 01:18 PM (2MS1q)
30
If I ever commit a crime that warranted harsh punishment, I hope everyone takes me at my word when I deny wrongdoing.
Posted by: lulzy at August 04, 2007 01:18 PM (1pIQs)
31
I like to see - just one - apology from a Loon who not only bought into, but spread, this pack of lies.
I'd also like to see gas at thirty-seven cents a gallon.
I'd also like to see gas at thirty-seven cents a gallon.
Posted by: Gerry Shuller at August 04, 2007 01:20 PM (/MHIt)
32
Lets see, unconditionally believing a PROVEN and ADMITTED liar/narcissist/scam artist (like BeauCHUMP)= reasonable
Believing the US Military (who has repeatedly and publically owned up to any misdeeds of its members after thorough investigations)= your a bunch of suckers
LOL Lulzy, good one
Believing the US Military (who has repeatedly and publically owned up to any misdeeds of its members after thorough investigations)= your a bunch of suckers
LOL Lulzy, good one
Posted by: TMF at August 04, 2007 01:24 PM (2MS1q)
33
"after thorough investigations"
Precisely. I'm not prematurely ejaculating over a set of interviews with people who may or may not have something to hide. I'm waiting for thorough investigations.
Thank you my dear.
"How does the defendant plead?"
"Not guilty your honor."
"Well that's good enough for me. Let's go home."
Precisely. I'm not prematurely ejaculating over a set of interviews with people who may or may not have something to hide. I'm waiting for thorough investigations.
Thank you my dear.
"How does the defendant plead?"
"Not guilty your honor."
"Well that's good enough for me. Let's go home."
Posted by: lulzy at August 04, 2007 01:45 PM (1pIQs)
34
remember when tnr published that pack of lies regarding pat tillman's death by enemy fire? damn you, msm!
KEvron
KEvron
Posted by: KEvron at August 04, 2007 02:15 PM (sSSem)
35
More transparent than the media.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 04, 2007 02:40 PM (0d45V)
36
Oh I see, this clown gets caught with his pants down, and the anti-troop left wants to divert everyones attention to other scandals.
guess 2 wrongs make a right, huh leftists
I always knew you were good little Stalinists
Liar=Hero
guess 2 wrongs make a right, huh leftists
I always knew you were good little Stalinists
Liar=Hero
Posted by: TMF at August 04, 2007 02:41 PM (2MS1q)
37
Id say the abu ghraib, tillman, haditha and other investigations have been pretty damn transparent, yes.
Hell of alot more transparent than TNRs buffoonish "fact checking"
"Yes, hes married to one of our people. Thats enough for us. Hes reliable"
"BUt what about the fact that he wasnt even in Iraq when these incidences occurred, and hadnt even heard a shot fired?"
"Does not Compute...."
LOL
Hell of alot more transparent than TNRs buffoonish "fact checking"
"Yes, hes married to one of our people. Thats enough for us. Hes reliable"
"BUt what about the fact that he wasnt even in Iraq when these incidences occurred, and hadnt even heard a shot fired?"
"Does not Compute...."
LOL
Posted by: TMF at August 04, 2007 02:46 PM (2MS1q)
38
The left and the media still have the Cronkheit Krankheit (ger., = sickness, disease).
Posted by: Brian H at August 04, 2007 03:23 PM (n836S)
39
BTW, TNF;
you just stomped on one of my pet peeve sorespots. Incidence means frequency; it's a statistics term. "The incidence of drunk driving rises during long weekends."
Incident means event, occurrence; incidents are several of them. "There were some incidents of drunk driving last weekend."
you just stomped on one of my pet peeve sorespots. Incidence means frequency; it's a statistics term. "The incidence of drunk driving rises during long weekends."
Incident means event, occurrence; incidents are several of them. "There were some incidents of drunk driving last weekend."
Posted by: Brian H at August 04, 2007 03:27 PM (n836S)
40
I think we can find a spare limb for him in the same tree as Pelosi, Reid, and Murtha,
Posted by: the_right_reverend at August 04, 2007 05:30 PM (NbjxG)
41
Don't tell me, let me guess. TNR will report that after even more exhaustive re-re-re-reporting and the discovery of more anonymous, but unimpeachable sources, they stand by Beauchamp's stories and their publishing of same because even though the Army "claims" they're false, it is the fascist Army who is pressuring the troops to lie about what really happened. They might even find an anonymous source or two to expose the Army's coverup!
After all, it is exposure to the Army and war that warps sensitive, tortured souls like Beauchamp and forces them to commit atrocities. Goodness, the corrosive power is so great that even coming within a country of a war zone has the same effect! And of course, the Army can't have Beauchamp's obviously true stories being corroborated because that would expose the Army for the corrupt imperialist stooges, whose only purpose is to enrich Bush's oil buddies and to oppress brown people, they are.
TNR will see no need, apart from a niggling, insignificant detail here and there (you know, like being hundreds of miles and months off), not to believe Beauchamp, and will essentially say, "we believe it, you can't prove it didn't happen, and you're all right wing lunatic liars anyway, so there! Nyah! Nyah!"
After all, it is exposure to the Army and war that warps sensitive, tortured souls like Beauchamp and forces them to commit atrocities. Goodness, the corrosive power is so great that even coming within a country of a war zone has the same effect! And of course, the Army can't have Beauchamp's obviously true stories being corroborated because that would expose the Army for the corrupt imperialist stooges, whose only purpose is to enrich Bush's oil buddies and to oppress brown people, they are.
TNR will see no need, apart from a niggling, insignificant detail here and there (you know, like being hundreds of miles and months off), not to believe Beauchamp, and will essentially say, "we believe it, you can't prove it didn't happen, and you're all right wing lunatic liars anyway, so there! Nyah! Nyah!"
Posted by: Mike at August 04, 2007 07:07 PM (yGPvp)
42
Hmmmm.
@ CY
Let's have a writing contest. The person who writes a claptrap "no-crap-I-was-there" story in the writing style of Beauchamp gets a round of applause from everyone else.
@ CY
Let's have a writing contest. The person who writes a claptrap "no-crap-I-was-there" story in the writing style of Beauchamp gets a round of applause from everyone else.
Posted by: memomachine at August 04, 2007 08:28 PM (0aIoB)
43
TNR fell into the Left's Kultursmog where facts completely at variance with perceptions and dogma are absolutely discounted.
For instance, the actual tyrants in Cuba and Venezuela are given kid glove treatment because they are instituting revolutionary socialism and resisting the imperial hegemon. However, in this country the duly elected President and Vice-President are pilloried and slandered as fascist dictators.
This Beauchamp incident highlights exactly how hidebound the Left is to its "reality". So much so, that actual reality that our guys still wear the white hats and are not brutal automatons is too much. Rigorous fact-checking doesn't mean squat if you don't question your own bias of the narrative itself.
For instance, the actual tyrants in Cuba and Venezuela are given kid glove treatment because they are instituting revolutionary socialism and resisting the imperial hegemon. However, in this country the duly elected President and Vice-President are pilloried and slandered as fascist dictators.
This Beauchamp incident highlights exactly how hidebound the Left is to its "reality". So much so, that actual reality that our guys still wear the white hats and are not brutal automatons is too much. Rigorous fact-checking doesn't mean squat if you don't question your own bias of the narrative itself.
Posted by: wjo at August 04, 2007 08:42 PM (cP6Lq)
44
It's official - 100% of soldiers polled said 'No, I don't want an Article 15!'
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8505
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/04/army-spokesman-investigation-shows-beauchamps-allegations-are-false/
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8505
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/04/army-spokesman-investigation-shows-beauchamps-allegations-are-false/
Posted by: Barry at August 04, 2007 08:42 PM (hRXQQ)
45
Strange we don't see the defenders from other threads in here.
Barry, what you have here is the prisoner's dilemma. Everyone interviewed had to sign a sworn statement. Lying on sworn statement is another article. If the entire platoon is interviewed, that would mean each of 50 people have to be committed to lying in an official statement, breaking more laws, and trusting everyone to do the same. It may be possible, but it isn't very probable.
I have been through mass interviews like this before.
Barry, what you have here is the prisoner's dilemma. Everyone interviewed had to sign a sworn statement. Lying on sworn statement is another article. If the entire platoon is interviewed, that would mean each of 50 people have to be committed to lying in an official statement, breaking more laws, and trusting everyone to do the same. It may be possible, but it isn't very probable.
I have been through mass interviews like this before.
Posted by: y7 at August 04, 2007 10:03 PM (Cixed)
46
It is obvious that Pvt. Beauchamp is suffering from a previously undiscovered disease of war. He has PTSD, Pre Traumatic Stress Disorder. Unlike previous war where you actually had to see combat to get it, like WW1's Shell Shock and WW2's Combat Exhaustion, Viet Nam's Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, this war is so awful a sterling soul like poor PVT Beauchamp can turn into a monster before ever hearing an unexpected loud noise.
We should thank TNR for bringing this horrible disease to our attention.
We should thank TNR for bringing this horrible disease to our attention.
Posted by: Peter at August 04, 2007 10:29 PM (dXZhb)
47
On the money y7. I conducted an AR-15 investigation once. "Raise your right hand" etc. Mr. Premature Ejaculation lulzy needs to get some medication to help himself with that problem and not try to apply it where he has monumental ignorance. The Army legal system is a command system and the results of an official investigation, even down to the unit level are valid and legal.
BTW, I saw a posting of the beachaump character's 1SG comments. You could read behind the lines that Beauchamp is a DIRTBALL.
BTW, I saw a posting of the beachaump character's 1SG comments. You could read behind the lines that Beauchamp is a DIRTBALL.
Posted by: gm at August 04, 2007 11:24 PM (x3Y0C)
48
Hey, Barry,
Of course, what Johnny "of course they can’t corroborate it" Cole overlooks is that by his logic, TNR CAN’T EITHER!!!!!!!!
Which pretty much leaves us where we have always been: those with a predisposition to hate and slander the troops will believe any wild story; those without it.... won’t.
Copperheads.
Of course, what Johnny "of course they can’t corroborate it" Cole overlooks is that by his logic, TNR CAN’T EITHER!!!!!!!!
Which pretty much leaves us where we have always been: those with a predisposition to hate and slander the troops will believe any wild story; those without it.... won’t.
Copperheads.
Posted by: SDN at August 05, 2007 12:24 AM (d/wQ5)
49
""The Army also initially said Jessica Lynch went down fighting and Pat Tillman died due to enemy fire, so I think it's a little early to be claiming vindication.
posted by N.C. at August 4, 2007 10:53 AM"""
Not on point. The army never claimed these things and besides, the Army never said Jessica Lynch was shot with Square bullets or that Pat Tillman was killed in Greece, or Alaska.
Beauchamp can't even get his stories in the right country.
posted by N.C. at August 4, 2007 10:53 AM"""
Not on point. The army never claimed these things and besides, the Army never said Jessica Lynch was shot with Square bullets or that Pat Tillman was killed in Greece, or Alaska.
Beauchamp can't even get his stories in the right country.
Posted by: Poppy at August 05, 2007 07:15 AM (dJFjD)
50
Here's the actually truth about jessica Lynch, since NC doesn't see fit to fact check, kind of like beauchamp and TNR.
""Initial news reports, including those in The Washington Post, which cited unnamed U.S. officials with access to intelligence reports, described Lynch emptying her M-16 into Iraqi soldiers. The intelligence reports from intercepts and Iraqi informants said that Lynch fought fiercely, was stabbed and shot multiple times, and that she killed several of her assailants. ""
""The Post's initial coverage attracted widespread criticism because many of the sources were unnamed and because the accounts were soon contradicted by other military officials.""
It was the Army that was knocking down the story and the press that was running with it.
""Initial news reports, including those in The Washington Post, which cited unnamed U.S. officials with access to intelligence reports, described Lynch emptying her M-16 into Iraqi soldiers. The intelligence reports from intercepts and Iraqi informants said that Lynch fought fiercely, was stabbed and shot multiple times, and that she killed several of her assailants. ""
""The Post's initial coverage attracted widespread criticism because many of the sources were unnamed and because the accounts were soon contradicted by other military officials.""
It was the Army that was knocking down the story and the press that was running with it.
Posted by: Poppy at August 05, 2007 07:21 AM (dJFjD)
51
Hmmmm.
Ok. How many times does this idiot nonsense about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman have to keep coming up?
Frankly that's one of the things I find really irritating about liberals. They generally don't know anything and proudly wear their ignorance like a badge.
Ok. How many times does this idiot nonsense about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman have to keep coming up?
Frankly that's one of the things I find really irritating about liberals. They generally don't know anything and proudly wear their ignorance like a badge.
Posted by: memomachine at August 05, 2007 09:21 AM (0aIoB)
52
TNR == "Truth? No Relation!"
Posted by: Rob Crawford at August 05, 2007 01:11 PM (bH9q3)
53
Stephen Glass in ACUs! Hah! Of course, Glass went on to Georgetown Law School and is probably making a fortune now in a profession where lying is expected of you. I see such a bright future for Beauchamp....
Posted by: Michael Fumento at August 05, 2007 06:55 PM (uZVcT)
54
memomachine - those stories and ones like them will keep coming up because they work. There are enough people that will latch onto the story but not look too hard for the disproof, to make it worthwhile for progressives to use these for political purposes. Once a story is swallowed, people have an incentive not to have to vomit it back up.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at August 05, 2007 07:20 PM (YQFD4)
55
Hmmm.
@ Assistant Village Idiot
Yeah. Personally were I Bush I'd form a Presidential Commission to investigate bad reporting from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Force these reporters and their editors to stand up in front of the Commission, and the tv cameras, and testify under oath why they reported rumors as fact and why they bungled the reporting so badly.
@ Assistant Village Idiot
Yeah. Personally were I Bush I'd form a Presidential Commission to investigate bad reporting from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Force these reporters and their editors to stand up in front of the Commission, and the tv cameras, and testify under oath why they reported rumors as fact and why they bungled the reporting so badly.
Posted by: memomachine at August 06, 2007 10:00 AM (3pvQO)
56
ADMINED OUT!?!?!?!?!
Write that Effer back and say at least a special, anyone familiar can come up with count after count against him under the UCMJ, and he rates AT least a special and a BCD.
I was summaried based on innuendo (and two relatively minor, and resoundingly stupid (on my part) actions)during PEACETIME!
This guy buy acts and words has insulted all branches of the uniformed services, and this is a major PR coup. USE IT, and hit the guy as he should be hit, he defamed everyone who ever wore the uniform and it looks like he might get off with an NJP and a friggen ADMIN!?!?!?
AN OTH still rotates to an honorable after the completion of his 4 years of IRR!
NO FRIGGEN WAY! this guy rates that, hammer him, hammer him hard. If 6 guys can be CM'd and BCD'd out for not taking a friggen vaccine, you can bet your ass this guy rates worse.
Write that Effer back and say at least a special, anyone familiar can come up with count after count against him under the UCMJ, and he rates AT least a special and a BCD.
I was summaried based on innuendo (and two relatively minor, and resoundingly stupid (on my part) actions)during PEACETIME!
This guy buy acts and words has insulted all branches of the uniformed services, and this is a major PR coup. USE IT, and hit the guy as he should be hit, he defamed everyone who ever wore the uniform and it looks like he might get off with an NJP and a friggen ADMIN!?!?!?
AN OTH still rotates to an honorable after the completion of his 4 years of IRR!
NO FRIGGEN WAY! this guy rates that, hammer him, hammer him hard. If 6 guys can be CM'd and BCD'd out for not taking a friggen vaccine, you can bet your ass this guy rates worse.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at August 06, 2007 09:39 PM (QTv8u)
57
I have to disagree with the vast majority here. I have 17 years in the Army, OIF IV veteran, and I can tell you this crap does happen. The Army also desimates information to it's advantage (e.g. Lynch, Tillman, etc.). There is a VERY strong possibility there is a partial truth to what this kid claimed. I saw much, much, worse than this kid claimed in a few paragraphs to TNR. The bottom line is that when you enter a war on a false premise, you are likely to morally bankrupt and destructive Soldiers in the lime light. People aren't stupid, Soldiers aren't stupid - ethics and morals can quickly deteriorate - especially at the lower levels.
Leadership in the Army is based on those fundementals of 'TOP - DOWN'. This kid is at the bottom, if you want someone to blame don't blame TNR for reporting it or this kid for writing it - Blame Dubya and Uncle Dick for getting us in to it.
Leadership in the Army is based on those fundementals of 'TOP - DOWN'. This kid is at the bottom, if you want someone to blame don't blame TNR for reporting it or this kid for writing it - Blame Dubya and Uncle Dick for getting us in to it.
Posted by: September at August 07, 2007 11:48 PM (pelsA)
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