Murtha Lied (Confirmed)
Patterico has directly confirmed that Democratic Rep. John Murtha just flat out lied about when he was briefed about Haditha.
It appears that the DNC's retreat specialist is in trouble.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at 06:01 AM
Comments
1
I was wondering this morning why we haven't heard hide nor hair of him in so long. Maybe this is why.
I wonder how his reelection is doing.
I wonder how his reelection is doing.
Posted by: monkeyboy at August 17, 2006 07:28 AM (w4rJE)
2
patterico is grasping at straws.
the la times said murtha's source on haditha was a briefing from hagee, but patterico alleges, perhaps even correctly, that hagee didn't brief murtha until a week after murtha spoke out about haditha. thus patterico thinks he gets the two birds in the bush, slamming murtha for lying and the times for covering up those lies.
the problem is murtha's source wasn't hagee. it was, as might be expected by a key pipeline between the military and congress, unnamed military sources.
did the la times do shoddy reporting? perhaps. but murtha's integrity is beyond reproach. and his seat, btw, is also very safe.
the la times said murtha's source on haditha was a briefing from hagee, but patterico alleges, perhaps even correctly, that hagee didn't brief murtha until a week after murtha spoke out about haditha. thus patterico thinks he gets the two birds in the bush, slamming murtha for lying and the times for covering up those lies.
the problem is murtha's source wasn't hagee. it was, as might be expected by a key pipeline between the military and congress, unnamed military sources.
did the la times do shoddy reporting? perhaps. but murtha's integrity is beyond reproach. and his seat, btw, is also very safe.
Posted by: angry young man at August 17, 2006 09:49 AM (vC1jc)
3
Wrongo angry,
When asked where he got the information upon which he based his now infamous statement, Murtha himself claimed in the Philadelphia Enquirer that the source was Hagee. Sorry. You Lose. Next Player?
When asked where he got the information upon which he based his now infamous statement, Murtha himself claimed in the Philadelphia Enquirer that the source was Hagee. Sorry. You Lose. Next Player?
Posted by: Specter at August 17, 2006 12:49 PM (ybfXM)
4
angry young man, don't you just hate it when facts get in the way of a good rebuttal?
Posted by: Old Soldier at August 17, 2006 02:25 PM (X2tAw)
5
which would suggest that hagee was the unnamed military source. if he's going to try to burn murtha to cover his ass, i don't see why murtha shouldn't burn him in his own defense.
Posted by: angry young man at August 17, 2006 02:37 PM (vC1jc)
6
Let's see what old Jello Jowls has to say when testifying under oath, OK? He IS the defendant in a defamation lawsuit against him. He can sink or tread water or get his butt to swimming.
Posted by: Retired Spy at August 17, 2006 04:09 PM (Xw2ki)
7
angry,
It doesn't suggest it - Murtha claimed it. In Print. In front of the world. Sorry but you already lost this game. Try another.
It doesn't suggest it - Murtha claimed it. In Print. In front of the world. Sorry but you already lost this game. Try another.
Posted by: Specter at August 17, 2006 06:34 PM (ybfXM)
8
Here's what the Inquirer reported:
"Asked about this in the interview, Murtha said the information came from Gen. Michael Hagee, the commandant of the Marine Corps, in a one-on-one conversation the day before Hagee made a trip to Iraq. Hagee did not use the term "in cold blood," he added.
"Col. Dave Lapan, a Marine spokesman, disputed Murtha's account.
"He said the commandant did brief Murtha about the Haditha incident. But he said that was on May 24, a week after Murtha made his public comment. The next day, May 25, Hagee left for Iraq, he said."
In other words, it's Murtha's word against the mouthpiece the Marines sent out to deflect attention from the massacre at Haditha, a job facilitated by the Swift Boat liars who were, you'll remember, shouted out of town during the attempted protest. One wonders, also, if the commandant was sped from America so quickly so he could dodge any direct questions about he knew about Haditha.
I wonder if Col. Lapan will be the one to testify in court for Hagee too as to the facts of his revelations.
Nice try, boys. Haditha happened, and it happened not because our soldiers are inherently bad, but because their training has not prepared them for the jobs they're expected to do; and because that job is unclear, being built on Bush Administration ideology, not military strategy. Smearing Murtha, who's earned more respect than most for actually fighting in wars, won't make Haditha go away--or what it signals about Bush's Folly and the fact that we obviously don't have the supposed best trained military in the world.
"Asked about this in the interview, Murtha said the information came from Gen. Michael Hagee, the commandant of the Marine Corps, in a one-on-one conversation the day before Hagee made a trip to Iraq. Hagee did not use the term "in cold blood," he added.
"Col. Dave Lapan, a Marine spokesman, disputed Murtha's account.
"He said the commandant did brief Murtha about the Haditha incident. But he said that was on May 24, a week after Murtha made his public comment. The next day, May 25, Hagee left for Iraq, he said."
In other words, it's Murtha's word against the mouthpiece the Marines sent out to deflect attention from the massacre at Haditha, a job facilitated by the Swift Boat liars who were, you'll remember, shouted out of town during the attempted protest. One wonders, also, if the commandant was sped from America so quickly so he could dodge any direct questions about he knew about Haditha.
I wonder if Col. Lapan will be the one to testify in court for Hagee too as to the facts of his revelations.
Nice try, boys. Haditha happened, and it happened not because our soldiers are inherently bad, but because their training has not prepared them for the jobs they're expected to do; and because that job is unclear, being built on Bush Administration ideology, not military strategy. Smearing Murtha, who's earned more respect than most for actually fighting in wars, won't make Haditha go away--or what it signals about Bush's Folly and the fact that we obviously don't have the supposed best trained military in the world.
Posted by: angry young man at August 17, 2006 07:15 PM (2yIW/)
9
He said, she said. Let's take Hagee's spokeswoman's claim at face value and conclude that Murtha must be lying. Yep, makes sense.
Posted by: Kinbote at August 17, 2006 07:25 PM (tC27u)
10
So - everyone agrees that Murtha was not "briefed" until the 24th. Sorry angry - still doesn't explain why Murtha said what he said on the 17th - a full week before he was briefed. You see - you can claim all you want that the Marines are using Hagee as a deflection - but it WAS Murtha who claimed that Hagee briefed him - the whole article was about who was Murtha's source for his "cold blooded murder" comment. How did he know a week in advance? You don't adress facts well do you?
Posted by: Specter at August 17, 2006 08:14 PM (ybfXM)
11
Tell me, angry .... what the ^&%$# don't you get about awaiting Murtha's testimony in a court of law? Are you stubborn or just plain dumb?
A little of both, perhaps?
A little of both, perhaps?
Posted by: Retired Spy at August 17, 2006 08:16 PM (Xw2ki)
12
see angry:
Here is what you quoted (my emphasis):
Asked about this in the interview, Murtha said the information came from Gen. Michael Hagee, the commandant of the Marine Corps, in a one-on-one conversation the day before Hagee made a trip to Iraq. Hagee did not use the term "in cold blood," he added.
But since everyone agrees that Murtha was not briefed until the 24th, how could he have made his accusation on the 17th? Game over.
Here is what you quoted (my emphasis):
Asked about this in the interview, Murtha said the information came from Gen. Michael Hagee, the commandant of the Marine Corps, in a one-on-one conversation the day before Hagee made a trip to Iraq. Hagee did not use the term "in cold blood," he added.
But since everyone agrees that Murtha was not briefed until the 24th, how could he have made his accusation on the 17th? Game over.
Posted by: Specter at August 17, 2006 08:23 PM (ybfXM)
13
No, I'm not agreeing that Murtha spoke to Hagee on 5/24. The Marine spokesman said 5/24, and I think that's a lie to give Hagee and, more importantly, the Marines cover. We could ask Hagee, of course, but he's been spirited out of the country.
And I look forward to Murtha's testimony, especially if the trial is held in a district where he's beloved more than Santa Claus. My point is, will Hagee also be allowed by the Marines to dispute the date or will the Marines stonewall the court and forbid it, perhaps sending another spokesman in his place.
Why are you so willing to take the word of some flack? Why aren't you calling for Hagee to give his side of the story?
And I look forward to Murtha's testimony, especially if the trial is held in a district where he's beloved more than Santa Claus. My point is, will Hagee also be allowed by the Marines to dispute the date or will the Marines stonewall the court and forbid it, perhaps sending another spokesman in his place.
Why are you so willing to take the word of some flack? Why aren't you calling for Hagee to give his side of the story?
Posted by: angry young man at August 17, 2006 08:40 PM (2yIW/)
14
And the key point I forgot mention: Where's Hagee to say he left on 5/25, not 5/18? Was he supposed to leave on 5/18, then didn't leave, unbeknownst to Murtha, until 5/25? Murtha didn't give dates. And the Marines are playing with them. You want answers from Murtha. But you should want answers from Hagee.
Posted by: angry young man at August 17, 2006 08:45 PM (2yIW/)
15
well angry - i see you are the typical troll - unthinking as you are. But I'm sure that one look at the Congressman's schedule for that time frame will tell us what day he met with Hagee. You'd think though that since Murtha is not already jumping up and down stating - "See - my schedule shows that I met with Hagee before I made remarks on the 17th" says a lot more than the fact that the Marines have already disputed the date. Why do you suppose that Murtha - who loves the cameras - hasn't already stated that the Marines are wrong? Wishful thinking on your part maybe?
BTW - "young man" is truly apt. Do you really think the defendant in a law suit gets to pick the venue? Where did you learn law?
BTW - "young man" is truly apt. Do you really think the defendant in a law suit gets to pick the venue? Where did you learn law?
Posted by: Specter at August 17, 2006 09:05 PM (ybfXM)
16
i don't see why murtha shouldn't burn him in his own defense
That he dropped the name initially and struck out with it suggests if there is another "unnamed source", it wasn't that one.
Murtha is like OJ out there scouring the planet for the "real killers", when all he needs do is look in the mirror ;->
That he dropped the name initially and struck out with it suggests if there is another "unnamed source", it wasn't that one.
Murtha is like OJ out there scouring the planet for the "real killers", when all he needs do is look in the mirror ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 17, 2006 10:17 PM (c/xwT)
17
1. i'm impressed. it took until the 15th comment before someone called me a troll. but a troll doesn't lay out an argument. a troll simply insults, derides and departs. i haven't done that.
2. you're picking at tiny things because your argument is lacking. did i say the venue would be in murtha's district? no, but i hope it is.
3. murtha hardly loves the cameras. the man's been in congress more than 30 years. did you ever hear of him before he decided to speak out against bush's war? i doubt it. is he like mehlman and his ilk, sprewing the party's talking points from one show to the next? hardly.
4. murtha has nothing to prove. the marines do. hagee does. the swift boat liars who have him murtha in their sites would like to turn things around and put him on the defensive. but they have misunderstood their target because they have no concept of real integrity and the respect it engenders. just as the swift boat rally at murtha's office was shouted down by a sea of murtha's supporters, and just as jean schmidt is going to lose her seat because of her misaimed venom, the swift boating of murtha will fail because 2/3 of the country believe in what he's saying, believe in him, and don't believe a single word that comes out of a republican's mouth.
2. you're picking at tiny things because your argument is lacking. did i say the venue would be in murtha's district? no, but i hope it is.
3. murtha hardly loves the cameras. the man's been in congress more than 30 years. did you ever hear of him before he decided to speak out against bush's war? i doubt it. is he like mehlman and his ilk, sprewing the party's talking points from one show to the next? hardly.
4. murtha has nothing to prove. the marines do. hagee does. the swift boat liars who have him murtha in their sites would like to turn things around and put him on the defensive. but they have misunderstood their target because they have no concept of real integrity and the respect it engenders. just as the swift boat rally at murtha's office was shouted down by a sea of murtha's supporters, and just as jean schmidt is going to lose her seat because of her misaimed venom, the swift boating of murtha will fail because 2/3 of the country believe in what he's saying, believe in him, and don't believe a single word that comes out of a republican's mouth.
Posted by: angry young man at August 17, 2006 10:22 PM (2yIW/)
18
BS angry.....Murtha is the one who said Hagee told him. Your logic does not apply. Hagee never came into the picture until Murtha said it. See I can do the same thing - Who ever heard of Hagee before Murtha mentioned his name. As for your argument about Murtha not like cams - Care to count how many times he has been on camera in just the last 10 months to a year - more than ever before in his career. You have no argument. Murtha said Hagee told him. Your argument is supposition more than anyone elses - you suggest that the marines are lying - what a bunch of bull. What you are spouting is not serious conversation - just like your comment comparing him to Santa Claus. It is simply your misguided view of yet another conspiracy dreamed up by everybody else - and I mean everybody except a democrat. Nothing democrats do in your world could be wrong. Everything they do is right. And anyone who says anything different is casting the hero in an evil light. Get over it. This one is done. What a maroon.
BTW - when you come into a sight and call everybody else's opinion wrong - especially when you are new - it does make you a TROLL. Get it?
Some day we may actually know what happened at Haditha. But I doubt it. No forensic evidence to be had. But if you think that our guys should have nicely walked up to the door of a house they believed enemy fire came from and knocked and asked if they could speak to the terrorist of the house you are absolutely nutz. It is not the way things are done in a war zone. Kick down door. Toss in Frag. Clearing fire. Then look. Don't be naive.
BTW - when you come into a sight and call everybody else's opinion wrong - especially when you are new - it does make you a TROLL. Get it?
Some day we may actually know what happened at Haditha. But I doubt it. No forensic evidence to be had. But if you think that our guys should have nicely walked up to the door of a house they believed enemy fire came from and knocked and asked if they could speak to the terrorist of the house you are absolutely nutz. It is not the way things are done in a war zone. Kick down door. Toss in Frag. Clearing fire. Then look. Don't be naive.
Posted by: Specter at August 17, 2006 11:08 PM (ybfXM)
19
I guess that angry is angry because he believes that a massacre actually happened at Haditha. He believes that the Marines actually decided one day to go out and just kill a bunch of civilians. That they planned it out in advance - talking about how they would just pick a random house (or houses) and then just bust in and shoot everybody inside. Or that they scouted the area to find out which houses had the most civilians inside. Angry believes that it was a conspiracy from the start.
Now - Murtha came out and said - before the investigation was complete mind you - and it is still not complete - that these young soldiers were "cold blooded murderers". He claimed that he was given that information by Hagee (this can be verified in multiple news accounts). The marines say that Hagee did not brief Murtha until after he had made his statement.
Back to Angry - He believes that Haditha was a conspiracy to start with - despite the fact that no conspiracy has been shown (including the alleged attempt to cover it up - you know those marines must be pretty dumb according to people like Angry - I mean they used their radios after the incident to report that they had civilian casualties). So, for angry, if anyone questions Murtha's account it must be yet ANOTHER conspiracy. Wow - they just flare up in your mind continuously, huh angry?
Conspiracy after conspiracy. And they are all orchestrated by Republicans and are after the poor, unappreciated Democrats. Poor angry. Maybe some nice Thorazine for you huh?
Now - Murtha came out and said - before the investigation was complete mind you - and it is still not complete - that these young soldiers were "cold blooded murderers". He claimed that he was given that information by Hagee (this can be verified in multiple news accounts). The marines say that Hagee did not brief Murtha until after he had made his statement.
Back to Angry - He believes that Haditha was a conspiracy to start with - despite the fact that no conspiracy has been shown (including the alleged attempt to cover it up - you know those marines must be pretty dumb according to people like Angry - I mean they used their radios after the incident to report that they had civilian casualties). So, for angry, if anyone questions Murtha's account it must be yet ANOTHER conspiracy. Wow - they just flare up in your mind continuously, huh angry?
Conspiracy after conspiracy. And they are all orchestrated by Republicans and are after the poor, unappreciated Democrats. Poor angry. Maybe some nice Thorazine for you huh?
Posted by: Specter at August 17, 2006 11:30 PM (ybfXM)
20
I read today that the General has poured gasoline on Murtha's ass and confirmed he did not brief the traitor until after he slimed the young marine's. Now each of the marine's deserve one shot at one hundred yards with their favorite weapon ( a real weapon with real live ammo) at Murtha's fat ass. Let the sh** fly out of somewhere besides his lying mouth.
Posted by: Scrapiron at August 18, 2006 12:45 AM (fEnUg)
21
I notice that 'angry young man' seems to think that whoever makes the most noise must be telling the truth.
Posted by: SC88 at August 18, 2006 06:48 PM (hOKJ9)
22
why is it that the democrat party is allways out front first to condemn the troops? its very telling
Posted by: buzzard at August 19, 2006 05:29 PM (onz6J)
23
Angry,
Don't know if you will read this or not but this is for you.
If one of my Former Sailors called me a "Cold blooded Killer" before the facts were out, or ran off at the mouth about "cut and run" or "redeploying to Okinawa or Guam" while I was trying to do my job, one that was not in the service for YEARS and didn't know the current situation. One that, while in and serving, served as an AIDE, not a front line commander. I would have a hard time swallowing his swill as well.
Those are the reasons that I find Murtha disgusting.
I can respect that he served, I can respect that he doesn't like the war, I can even respect that he wants our troops home (So do I).
I can't respect that he wants to grandstand on his service thinking that makes him right, I can't respect that he wants to cut and run, redeploy, whatever he calls it this week, I can't resepect that he calls the young Marines with their lives on the lines cold blooded killers without even letting the courts go through the evidence.
I, for one, donated to the IREY campaign hoping that he goes away.
Don't know if you will read this or not but this is for you.
If one of my Former Sailors called me a "Cold blooded Killer" before the facts were out, or ran off at the mouth about "cut and run" or "redeploying to Okinawa or Guam" while I was trying to do my job, one that was not in the service for YEARS and didn't know the current situation. One that, while in and serving, served as an AIDE, not a front line commander. I would have a hard time swallowing his swill as well.
Those are the reasons that I find Murtha disgusting.
I can respect that he served, I can respect that he doesn't like the war, I can even respect that he wants our troops home (So do I).
I can't respect that he wants to grandstand on his service thinking that makes him right, I can't respect that he wants to cut and run, redeploy, whatever he calls it this week, I can't resepect that he calls the young Marines with their lives on the lines cold blooded killers without even letting the courts go through the evidence.
I, for one, donated to the IREY campaign hoping that he goes away.
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 21, 2006 09:42 AM (elhVA)
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