Confederate Yankee
September 06, 2009
Van Hit By Bus
One radical gone.
How many more to go?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:37 AM
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1
Welcome to the to the wacky world of liberalism, where playing recordings of things that came out of someone's OWN MOUTH constitutes a "vicious smear campaign."
Posted by: Hired Mind at September 06, 2009 03:31 AM (OJ/in)
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"Van Hit By Bus"
I have seen many things which have nearly or actually caused me to spew my hot tea on my keyboard. This is the first which was caused by choking back laughter. It is also Great news. Glenn Beck for President, or at least Gadfly in Chief.
Treg
Posted by: Tregonsee at September 06, 2009 08:17 AM (nbLkT)
3
So, who's next on Club Tire Tracks? Obama's average has been way down since he became President, so he has a lot of work to do to reach the soaring heights of 2008.
Posted by: ECM at September 06, 2009 09:17 AM (q3V+C)
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Obama steps on his own d_ck once again.
Posted by: daleyrocks at September 06, 2009 01:26 PM (3O5/e)
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Who's next? Beck posted their pictures. Holdren, Sunstein, Zeke Emanuel and a couple of others. I think Beck has found his calling - killing czars.
Posted by: Roy Lofquist at September 06, 2009 02:45 PM (Aa3wK)
6
The “Certification of Live Birth”
shown around the internet has a legal notice
in the lower right hand corner which reads
[HRS 338-13(b), 338-19].
Said 338-13(b) is subject to the requirements of
338-16, 338-17, and 338-18;
338-16 is a birth certificate registered
one year or more after birth which
has been altered after being filed,
it shall contain the date of late filing
and the date of alteration.”
Posted by: Greg at September 06, 2009 02:46 PM (nWGqk)
Posted by: Federale at September 06, 2009 03:03 PM (I6UoW)
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The fact this guy was able to get a position in the White House is bad enough, but the defense of him by the likes of Howard Dean just shows how far left the Dems are today. It also shows how radical obama really is. He seems to have no mainstream friends.
Posted by: citizenofmanassas at September 06, 2009 08:22 PM (3oza6)
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The question is what was it about Van Jones that Obama found distasteful enough to get rid of him. And the answer is nothing except the truth of Van Jones became public. I'm quaking in my bible clinging, gun toating boots.
Posted by: Jayne at September 06, 2009 11:29 PM (dwIL0)
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Well, good for him. Mr. Jones, I'm proud of you. You did the right thing.
Posted by: Anthony at September 06, 2009 11:53 PM (wUsav)
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he may have left the white house but he isnt gone.
this guy is an example and the spirit of who baracks friends and cohorts are.
rev. wright
bill ayres *spit*
and all the rest of his "czars"
so he may be gone but his spirit and the plan live on.
Posted by: rumcrook® at September 07, 2009 12:24 AM (60WiD)
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The hilarious bit is that now there is a "Obama is a sellout!" movement on the Left. It had to happen. Of course none of these geniuses see the simple fact that their Commie fantasies just cannot fly in America and even Barry isn't dumb enough to fight that. Oh, and what is all this crap with "former Communist"? He is out loud and proud and I have missed his public renunciation of Stalin and Pol Pot.
Posted by: megapotamus at September 07, 2009 06:54 AM (lmoE2)
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September 04, 2009
Truther. Liar. Speed Bump.
Admitted communist community organizer and Obama "Green Jobs Czar" Van Jones has tried to spin his way out of signing his name on document that claims the Bush Administration played a role in allowing thousands of Americans to die during the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Jones tries to claim he didn't know what he was signing. This would mark him as either an idiot, or a liar... or more than likely both.
Unfortunately for Jones and the White House, Gateway Pundit has evidence pointing to Jones being part of the Truther movement
from its inception, with documentation showing his involvement in January of 2002, just months after the attack. Being on the ground floor of this conspiracy theorizing, this marks Jones as something of a "Truther birther."
Jones has been proven to be both a liar and an idiot.
That someone with Jones' radical background could be seen as a fit for this President's objectives should be seen as a wake-up call for all Americans. The fact that Jones is clearly a Truther from the beginning of the movement shows that the White House is incompetent when it comes to vetting personnel.
Then again, many of his appoints are tax cheats and ideologues, so I guess that was proven long ago.
Jones, however, has too much baggage, and is too far &qout;out there" to be kept on Obama's team. He'll likely be thrown under the proverbial bus this weekend to join the other radicals, racists, and domestic terrorists that share and shape our neophyte President's radical past.
Thump-thump.
Goodbye, Van.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:33 PM
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1
According to the JAWA report, on Sept 11,'02, well known CommunistVan Jones and a bunch of his nitwit friends were in San Fransicko, having a little peace-in.
Pass the peace pipe brothers and sisters.
Posted by: Joseph Brown at September 04, 2009 02:51 PM (RL/qN)
2
Not just Van Jones, Valerie Jarrett but when will Hussein Obama be asked to step down from his office? It's obvious, by worldview, he is unfit to be the American President.
He has un-American, alien (foreign) views. Gee, that's a surprise.
Posted by: rssg at September 04, 2009 03:51 PM (HH3AB)
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The wheels on the bus go round 'n round...
Man, that's a big bus...
Posted by: diogenes online at September 04, 2009 04:23 PM (mKC/E)
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What everyone is overlooking is just who in the WH is signing off on these people.
Someone high up has to be giving the OK for even access to enter the WH.
Posted by: 1sttofight at September 04, 2009 04:51 PM (/LLls)
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"or more than likely both."
Good conclusion. I frequently find myself trying to choose and there's really no reason when it's probably both.
Posted by: hudson duster at September 04, 2009 08:01 PM (u+PCO)
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Jones tries to claim he didn't know what he was signing.
Qualified for congress!
Posted by: Jim at September 04, 2009 08:09 PM (HwGHX)
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I just co wrote a fantastic song about how badly the Government is putting our country on its knees, you will all love it. go to you tube and type in Free Straight and True!
I have alot of passion about what is happening as I ran last year as an independent write in candidate and as a direct result was put into a looney bin. I wish I was making that up. I might write a book now about it titled, "You gotta be crazy to run for President".
Posted by: Denise at September 04, 2009 08:53 PM (2iBsW)
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That bozo WAS vetted. He fits perfectly.
Posted by: dad29 at September 04, 2009 09:38 PM (4PciU)
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Jones is a nut job. However, currently at least, the White House is standing by their man.
Posted by: CitizenofManassas at September 04, 2009 10:49 PM (3oza6)
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If he's a Truther, he's an idiot, however well educated and however brilliant he may be in any particular field.
Having immersed himself in Trutherism and now claiming, no, he wasn't paying attention to those nutty things those crazy people were saying (despite that he was one of the people saying those things) then he's a liar.
All in all, a good fit for this administration.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at September 05, 2009 05:38 AM (Vcyz0)
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"Jones has been proven to be both a liar and an idiot."
Same can be said about Nancy Pelosi when confronted with her knowledge of waterboarding. That also was glossed over by the media. Come to think about it, that is true with many of the leadership in Congress.
Posted by: David at September 05, 2009 06:57 AM (mgKyX)
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This isn't an administration; it's a bowel movement.
Posted by: Mockingbird at September 05, 2009 02:12 PM (Rz4Rk)
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You will find David Sirota has penned the Lefty line on this in Salon. He echoes the line on lies and distortions but cannot produce any of either. Doesn't mention Communism etc. Odd. Of he has a hard time defending Jones from the Truthers though. They feel betrayed by his "What petitions?" response. Shouldn't Commies be recruited into gub like anyone else? What ever happend to Affirmative Action?
Posted by: megapotamus at September 07, 2009 07:02 AM (lmoE2)
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September 03, 2009
Find Young Cannibal
The
Ventured County Star has
posted a picture of a MoveOn.org agitator in his late 40s or 50s that crossed the street yesterday afternoon to confront a group of anti-Obamacare protesters, and caused a peaceful protest to devolve into violence.
The man on the far right of the photo wearing black shorts and tee shirt got in the face of one of the smaller seniors in attendence, Bill Rice, and began yelling at him. The confrontation escalated, with Rice throwing two punches in what other witnesses described as self-defense. The second punch ended up in the man's mouth, at which point the instigator of the conflict bit Mr. Rice's finger off.
The Ventura County Sheriff's Department is looking for the MoveOn.Org protester, who will likely be charged with felony mayhem.
If you can identify the suspect, please call the Sheriff's Department investigations bureau at (805)494-8201, and bring this elder-abusing thug to justice.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:04 PM
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1
There's more to the story. I think Karoli Kuns and the MoveOn group are witholding information on the identity of the finger-biter. She's tweeting like crazy, and folks are talking about all those who witnessed the event ...
Lots of stuff at my blog, American Power ...
Posted by: Americaneocon at September 03, 2009 10:16 PM (7iSwk)
2
Please: Help us finger this man!
Posted by: Bob Davis at September 03, 2009 11:36 PM (LuDvm)
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So a left-wing looney who supports a government run health-care plan bites off the finger of a right-wing looney who opposes a government run health-care plan. The left-wing looney who supports a government run health-care plan flees the scene and is currently being sought by the authorities. The right-wing looney who opposes a government health-care plan goes to the hospital to seek medical treatment for his injured finger and then files a claim with Medicare, a government run health-care plan. Only in America would you find people this freakin' stupid.
Posted by: Lipiwitz at September 04, 2009 12:06 AM (bhNGz)
4
And don't get me wrong...the left-wing looney who supports a government run health-care plan should be caught and tossed in a padded room somewhere. Anybody who bites off a finger of another person is freakin' nuts, I don't care what your political views are.
Posted by: Lipiwitz at September 04, 2009 12:34 AM (bhNGz)
5
Posted by: Lipiwitz at September 4, 2009 12:06 AM "...government run health-care plan "
I though Medicare was a government run "insurance plan" (Public Option?)one you are forced onto once you turn 65. Paid for with deductions from your pay check each week. It was not to be a hand out. Yes, people want it, because they paid for it.
Posted by: AGuyFromJersey at September 04, 2009 07:04 AM (5i7j7)
6
Afew facts about Medicare--people who have worked paid into the system and do pay from their social security checks also. In addition there are choices within the system at this time. The guy who sent into the crowd of opposition was looking for fight literally. The other guy defended himself and got medical care--a rational idea.
So--not a moral equivelent .
Posted by: martin j smith at September 04, 2009 07:25 AM (RJaIa)
7
I have been paying Medicare insurance for thirty years..I will be paying more into it than I will ever get back. Medicare has been a total disaster as companies withdraw their own plan. Medicare is not free, we are paying for it like SS..at a small percentage of us are.
The world doesn't owe you shi((T, get out there and get a freaking job and stop living in your parents garage.
Posted by: Joe coelho at September 04, 2009 08:05 AM (13GaM)
8
I am with the Lipiwitz on this. The finger biting is ridiculous and the offender should be brought to justice. Purely stupid people fighting over their piece of pie, not trying to reduce the pie or get the pie out of their lifes.
Going back to Wal-Mart in Montana, suppose the old man punched this guy twice, was the aggressor, would that give the MOVE-ON guy the right to drop him with a shot? And then reverse it, suppose the old man had a pistol, after being bitten by an aggressor, would it be ok in self defense to shoot the move-on idiot?
Posted by: The Dukester at September 04, 2009 10:15 AM (tB4fa)
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A guy from jersey...it's a government run health care plan. You can opt out but good luck finding a private insurance company that will insure you once you hit 65. You think a private insurance company will actually pay out MORE in benefits than what they receive in with premiums?
Now if you'd all excuse me, I have to run down and do volunteer crowd control for all the millions of vets lining up to get out of their government run health care plan. Can't even type that with a straight face.
Elections have consequences! Elections matter! Who honestly gives a crap what the sniveling minority thinks? Force a resolution and put the bad boy through and let the inbred rednecks whine until they're blue in the face.
Posted by: Lipiwitz at September 04, 2009 10:16 AM (OX5qU)
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>>"The right-wing looney who opposes a government health-care plan goes to the hospital to seek medical treatment for his injured finger and then files a claim with Medicare, a government run health-care plan. Only in America would you find people this freakin' stupid."
There is nothing "loony" about his behavior. People who are sixty-five oppose Obama's plan on the perfectly reasonable grounds that it is bad for them. In fact most Americans who are paying attention oppose Obama's plan because it is bad for them.
The Obama plan consists of lowering the quality of healthcare for those who currently have it and forcing those who do not currently have it to get it, whether they want it or not.
>>"Who honestly gives a crap what the sniveling minority thinks?"
A majority oppose your socialistic plans, which is why they will not pass. Go cry in your beer somewhere else.
Posted by: Steve at September 04, 2009 10:33 AM (RrmGR)
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The bottom line of this nationalization of health care is very simple. The government will take health care resources away from American citizens and give them to aliens. It is just that simple.
Posted by: George Bruce at September 04, 2009 04:51 PM (v4XVE)
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Interesting; notice the seniors are in good shape for their age, but the middle aged bag of crap is one of those lard butts who wears black to look cool - while he confronts people in wheel chairs. And he fights like a psycho!
Posted by: hudson duster at September 04, 2009 08:06 PM (u+PCO)
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"I have to run down and do volunteer crowd control for all the millions of vets lining up to get out of their government run health care plan."
You forgot the end sarcasm tag at the end of that statement.
Posted by: N. O'Brain at September 06, 2009 04:08 PM (RbtXl)
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"Now if you'd all excuse me, I have to run down and do volunteer crowd control for all the millions of vets lining up to get out of their government run health care plan. Can't even type that with a straight face."
Yea, well you really don't need a sarc/tag.
Because thousands if not millions of Vets are not happy with the VA medical care. Nor with other programs that they administer.
Including me. My prime example is that I caught Pneumonia in 07. Of course it happened late Friday night and Sat morn. My daughter forced me to go to the local county hospital ER Sat afternoon. Once there I received life saving treatment and good care.
The hospital submitted a claim along with the doc that treated me. VA refused the claim. Saying I should have waited until Monday and made an appointment with the VA hospital (which has no ER).
The diagnosis clearly read "Pneumonia-acute".
Now almost three years later, after two appeals, sending all the med records twice (which cost me forty dollars for the hosp. 20X2, and twenty four dollars postage (second time registered mail). They still have not paid the bills. I can't seem to ever get anybody who knows anything, or why they haven't paid. Of course in the mean time, it has went to collections and very soon it will go on my credit record if it already hasn't.
VA care is a preview of how government run health care would be. I won't tell you all the horror stories my friends who are on Medicare have told me. You wouldn't believe them anyway.
Papa Ray
West Texas
P.S. I have other stories of VA doctors that can't speak English and that I can't understand hardly a word they say and stories of how I had to go to the VA several times just to get a correct diagnosis and/or the proper medication.
Posted by: Papa Ray at September 06, 2009 10:12 PM (JpVJn)
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I forgot to mention...From the time you make an appointment until the time you get in to either see a doc, lab or whatever is usually four months. Sometimes you will get a letter sometime in that period telling you that you have been slipped to a later date.
Great Care for us Vets...
Papa Ray
Posted by: Papa Ray at September 06, 2009 10:18 PM (JpVJn)
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Reality-Challenged Politics Daily Inverts Political Cannibalism Story
It really takes quite a pair to completely reverse the events and actors in an incident in order to promote the story you'd prefer, but Politics Daily seems up to the task, fabricating a story about a Move.org protester who had his finger bitten off at a California protest.
(Click the image to see the full-size version in another window.)
It is particularly dishonest (or grossly incompetent) to completely reverse the actual sequence of events and identities of those involved in a story that has garnered
considerable attention, but to do so after linking to those news sources and blogs that reported what actually occurred is particularly brazen.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:25 PM
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Politics Daily has a problem with hitting "publish" first and asking questions later. My latest blog post at L.N. Smithee's REACTOR has a pre-scrubbing screenshot of Politics Daily writer Christopher Weber falling for the specious rumor of the pending divorce of the Palins.
http://lnsmitheeblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/sarah-palin-fires-warning-shots-at-web.html
Posted by: L.N. Smithee at September 03, 2009 12:55 PM (9ACRz)
2
Politics Daily has a problem with hitting "publish" first and asking questions later. My latest blog post at L.N. Smithee's REACTOR has a pre-scrubbing screenshot of Politics Daily writer Christopher Weber falling for the specious rumor of the pending divorce of the Palins.
(Sorry about forgetting the quotation marks, CY.)
Posted by: L.N. Smithee at September 03, 2009 12:58 PM (9ACRz)
3
Politics Daily seems like a daily version of The Nation.
Posted by: Steve at September 03, 2009 01:21 PM (Qg1xQ)
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And you wonder why people don't trust the media?
Posted by: Matthew at September 03, 2009 01:43 PM (ijCoh)
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Funny how in the comments the biter is cheered and lauded for defending himself against "the Obamathugs". Oops.
Posted by: Rolfe at September 03, 2009 02:02 PM (eqhrc)
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Mark Steyn interviewed a guy who claimed to have been next to the injured party. This witness also found the finger tip and found the injured man at a local hospital ER so it could be reattached.
His account is that the culprit deliberately walked across a busy street, leaving his pro O'care group, and aggressively confronted one of the smallest & weakest of the anti-O'care folks. The culprit got in the victim's face and appeared to want a fight. The two rolled to the ground and there was blood and a missing finger tip. The aggressor left and went back to the pro-O'care crowd where he was welcome but disappeared when police sought him out.
Posted by: chris at September 03, 2009 02:05 PM (4448Q)
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Initial reports had the story the other way 'round. Whoever "politics daily" is just hasn't gotten the update yet.
Posted by: But but at September 03, 2009 02:44 PM (IRC/t)
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Remember, the flesh-eaters do not derive nourishment from your brains and do not require it. The central nervous system is running amok in a lifeless but animated husk. You must disable the central nervous system. Headshots are best but spinal destruction is a close second. Absent a shot to the centerline mechanical destruction of the limbs will at least keep them from pursuing you although even a severed head will attempt to get a bite in if given the opportunity. Be careful out there and remember that they are often quiet until they attack in the night.
Posted by: megapotamus at September 03, 2009 04:36 PM (r3tSH)
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Who cares about the facts when you have The Narrative?
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at September 03, 2009 05:45 PM (Vcyz0)
10
Quoted from and linked to at:
http://www.thecampofthesaints.com/2009.08.30_arch.html#1252011646146
Posted by: Bob Belvedere at September 03, 2009 07:46 PM (9TydN)
11
Politics Daily is something on the AOL site.
Posted by: Jayne at September 03, 2009 08:14 PM (dwIL0)
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Men Behaving Badly Yes We Cannibal
From biting comments between MoveOn.org organized pro-government health-care protesters and free-market advocates, to straight-out biting:
A 65-year-old man had his finger bitten off Wednesday evening at a health care rally in Thousand Oaks, according to the Ventura County Sheriff's Department.
Sheriff's investigators were called to Hillcrest and Lynn Road at 7:26 p.m.
About 100 protesters sponsored by MoveOn.org were having a rally supporting health care reform. A group of anti-health care reform protesters formed across the street.
A witness from the scene says a man was walking through the anti-reform group to get to the pro-reform side when he got into an altercation with the 65-year-old, who opposes health care reform.
If that sounds clear as mud to you, you are not alone.
In English, a man trying to get to the MoveOn.Org rally got into an altercation with a free market supporter, and during the confrontation, the MoveOn.Org bit the man's pinky finger off.
Lefty blogger Karoli at
Drums and Whistles was there as part of the MoveOn.Org crowd and
claims that the 65-year-old free market supporter/biting victim was the aggressor and instigated the violence by intimidating one MoveOn.Org attendee before punching the guy who bit his finger off.
Law enforcement is investigating, but it seems possible that charges may be warranted on both sides.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:09 AM
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1
What? No Big Lebowski nihilist reference?
Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?
Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of.
Posted by: armadillo at September 03, 2009 09:33 AM (JuRWt)
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Dr. Lawrence Hunter On Health Care Reform – KILL BILL. Why We Should Get Too Excited About Obama Dropping The Public Option.
Posted by: GJMerits at September 03, 2009 11:15 AM (z7hh2)
3
Charges on both sides? If punching a hippy in the mouth is wrong, then I dont want to be right...
Posted by: Mick Kraut at September 03, 2009 11:29 AM (NMK3S)
4
MoveOn: It all started when the he hit us back...
Posted by: Nick at September 03, 2009 11:44 AM (MFane)
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Whoever started it, this is what happens when you try to engage Dem thugs physically. The smarter thing to do is what I've been trying to get people to do for over 2.5 years. The latest attempt involves trying to get people to ask these questions.
Your leaders are perfectly content to let you be repeatedly snowed by politicians by asking weak things. Some of them don't want you to ask anything tough because it would impact the bottom lines of their funders. And, the rest simply want to put on a show for cable TV.
Posted by: 24AheadDotCom at September 03, 2009 12:28 PM (OLX6B)
6
As I type, I am listening to a guy on the Rush Limbaugh Show (talking with fill-in host Mark Steyn) who says he was a witness to the incident. "Scott from Thousand Oaks" is giving a detailed account and tells Mark it was the elderly anti-ObamaCare protester who lost his finger to the pro-ObamaCare protester, who was the aggressor. The caller is now saying he actually found the severed finger and helped escort the victim to the hospital.
This will all be sorted out eventually, and when it is, make sure you have the story straight, and don't let anyone switch the scenario. The Obamanoid Alinskyites like to confuse such issues so that nobody can claim to really know the facts that don't benefit them.
Posted by: L.N. Smithee at September 03, 2009 12:47 PM (9ACRz)
7
This is the year of the video report which has embarrassed plenty of our representatives when they were caught not doing their jobs and trying to smear citizen tax payers. This report just shows that each of us should know, seriously now, that government and any paid thugs need watching. I'm sure if there hadn't been any cameras at the event the guy would have eaten the finger but..we'll never know now. Too bad. Pack a video camera because the thugs work in the dark. Those days have to be over.
Posted by: SenatorMark4 at September 03, 2009 01:16 PM (yHml7)
8
The cannibal should be prosecuted in the fullest extent of the law.
Posted by: myna at September 03, 2009 01:43 PM (EV6h/)
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Darn it - I meant to say Dr. Lawrence Hunter On Health Care Reform – KILL BILL. Why We Should Not Get Too Excited About Obama Dropping The Public Option.
Maybe I was too excited. One word - "not". Darn, darn, darn.
Posted by: GJMerits at September 03, 2009 01:59 PM (z7hh2)
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If the bitee stuck after having his finger bitten off then he can not be charged with anything. He acted in self defense.
Since the loony left thinks using "scary words" is torture when it is not, the biter will try to make a false claim of self defense.
We all know the coverage would be very different had the roles been switched.
Posted by: fishydude at September 03, 2009 02:18 PM (3y1NP)
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It was Mike Tyson. I just know it! First ears, now fingers. What's next?!
Liberals are like arithmetic; they add trouble, subtract pleasure, divide attention, and multiply ignorance.
Except now I have to change subtract pleasure to subtract fingers.
Posted by: GJMerits at September 03, 2009 02:32 PM (z7hh2)
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Yes We Can! Enjoy a fine repast of human flesh!
Yes We Can! Get in the face of 65-year old people and then eat them!
Yes We Can! Solve the world hunger problem by consuming our enemies!
Yes We Can! Use Obamacare and the Death Panels to create Soylent Green!
Posted by: neal5x5 at September 03, 2009 02:45 PM (Rxy8o)
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Was the biter a canabinoid?
Posted by: Tom D at September 03, 2009 02:56 PM (5tF5x)
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Mental Note:
Do not give the finger to Obama's Zombie supporters... they might want to keep it.
Mental Note:
Do not yell "Bite Me" to Obama's Zombie supporters... they might do it.
/Hannibal Lector would be proud of the Zombie supporters.
Posted by: Steele at September 03, 2009 03:11 PM (BQApT)
15
Someone really needs to locate the perpetrator so authorities can check if he is up to date on his rabies shots.
Don't bite my finger off, Bro.
Posted by: x at September 03, 2009 04:11 PM (htHsk)
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Donner, party of five? Your table is ready.
Posted by: Thomas at September 03, 2009 04:34 PM (r6BQc)
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Remember, don't waste your time or precious ammo on anything but headshots. Even a severed head will try to take a bite given the opportunity.
Posted by: megapotamus at September 03, 2009 04:39 PM (r3tSH)
Posted by: Jim Treacher at September 03, 2009 04:58 PM (cvmgB)
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The latest information is that the Obamacare supporter had taunted the old guy because his son is a Marine fighting for us overseas. Apparently the Codepink crowd was on hand, too. After a few calls I was told that the Obama Cannibal actually bit and swallowed the finger. Obviously this will be factually confirmed soon as to whether the victim is 9 or 10 fingered.
This all follows the incident just a few weeks ago in which a local Ventura Peace Activist identified as Grant Markus attacked a local Doctor who dared questioned the single payer system being promoted by a local Democrat Group. The Peace Activist and Obamacare advocate was hauled away in handcuffs.
Posted by: Rupp at September 03, 2009 05:02 PM (dq1uw)
20
Quoted from and linked to at:
http://www.thecampofthesaints.com/2009.08.30_arch.html#1252011646146
Posted by: Bob Belvedere at September 03, 2009 07:44 PM (9TydN)
21
I was lead here by Malkin, Queen of the Internets.
I am going to use your rewrite in some photoshop action.
If I can make something good, I shall let you know.
Posted by: The Rude Dog at September 03, 2009 10:34 PM (JSkHL)
22
"Lefty blogger Karoli at Drums and Whistles was there as part of the MoveOn.Org crowd and claims that the 65-year-old free market supporter/biting victim was the aggressor and instigated the violence by intimidating one MoveOn.Org attendee before punching the guy who bit his finger off."
Karoli has the events wrong. She describes a tall man in an orange shirt intimidating the moveon folks, and then punching the cannibal guy.
But Rice is a short guy who was wearing a khaki shirt.
http://www.venturacountystar.com/photos/2009/sep/03/74303/
So I would take her account with a large grain of salt.
Posted by: stace at September 04, 2009 12:31 AM (g/wgk)
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If we hear of more such attacks, then: "Because liberalism is a persistent cannibalistic state"
Posted by: Apostic at September 04, 2009 02:48 AM (do1jg)
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Charges on BOTH sides? Come on. One side's position (that the old guy hit the Moveon guy)is based on the statement of a Moveon supporter. Hmm, might that person be lying? The other side's position (that the Moveon Guy bit off the finger of the old guy) is supported by something just a little bit more credible. A SEVERED FINGER LYING IN THE STREET! The Constitution does not require us to be IDIOTS! Jail for the Cannibal.
Posted by: JR at September 04, 2009 11:27 AM (nRUl5)
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September 02, 2009
Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized Heathcare...
There are no DeathEaters in the Government. There are no DeathEaters in the Government. There are no DeathEaters in the Government...
Like Hell:
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.
But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving, the experts warn.
As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.
"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.
"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."
The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients Association estimated that up to one million patients had received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
Give Sarah Palin her due: "death panels," whether an actual board of ghouls or a less-direct but no less final demand for a reduction in cost on a beancounter's ledger, are a very real part of socialized health-care. Resources are finite; governments are wasteful. Patients that are already diagnosed as terminal (rightly or wrongly) are... expendable.
What's not to love?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:03 PM
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1
Since nobody is proposing anything even remotely similar to the NHS, why are you complaining about the NHS ?
Posted by: One Of These Things at September 02, 2009 09:42 PM (IRC/t)
2
Lets see if I got this correct. People who are compassion enough to want coverage for everyone are ghoulish enough to kill grandpa and grandma? Hmmm, that sounds like a lifetime goal for those entering politics.
Posted by: MICHAEL SPENCER at September 02, 2009 09:45 PM (UdU5Y)
3
To: One OF These Things
Once government gets a public option the game is over and the government will be able to do as they wish. You also need to go and take another look at the bill. Much of the language is vague and gives power to the secretary of health with no congressional approval. This is all wrong..
Posted by: Terry H at September 02, 2009 09:51 PM (PZ9Uu)
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"People who are compassion enough to want coverage for everyone are ghoulish enough to kill grandpa and grandma?"
It is not the people who want coverage for everyone, it is the idiots that want to control it.
I recently had a conversation with a neighbor who is for this idiotic bill. She believes that the government, advised by doctors, should deny care to people who have a slim chance of surviving in order to free up funds for those who are easier to save.
My son was born at 21 week 6 days gestation. Because of the complications he had after birth, the doctors didn't think he would make it. (A good doctor will not give you a percentage, because they are arbitrary). But they kept him alive, and he carried on.
He starts school tomorrow, and is one of the healthiest, and strongest boys his age that I have ever seen. At three years old he is already writing his own name, and can read simple sentences. Yes he is small for his age, but boy is he tough.
I would love to see every American CITIZEN have health insurance. But not at the expense of so many productive Americans. About 8% of the American citizens are without health insurance and cant afford it. The 47 or 50 million you keep hearing about is a farce. Many of them can afford it, but choose not to buy it. Most of the uninsured are either legal resident aliens or illegal aliens, and as such shouldn't be getting any government help anyway. In 03 the uninsured accumulated 36 billion in uncovered health care costs. That same year the government issued out about 30 billion in grants for the uninsured. Do the math, and that equates to about 80% of their medical costs.
30 billion is a hell of a lot less than the 1.7 trillion over a few years.
You guys are arguing a non problem. Get government out of the equation (to an extent).
Pills are expensive because they advertise to the patient instead of the doctor. Doctors are expensive because they went to school for a long time and have a job that carries a lot of responsibility (that and the hundred k to three hundred k a year they have to spend on malpractice insurance doesn't help any). Then you have medicare/caid caps that force doctors and hospitals to transfer the costs to others. Then the fact that insurance companies often can not cover people U.S. wide does not help (the larger the pool they can pull from, the lower the cost).
Yes, I had insurance when my boy was born, and I am still paying doctor bills (he was in the NICU for four months). But out of curiosity I asked the fellow about what would happen if I didn't have insurance. Would they kick my boy out of the NICU? He answered almost as if he was offended. A simple, but harsh NO was his answer.
Posted by: Matt at September 02, 2009 10:14 PM (54Fjx)
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Would they kick my boy out of the NICU? He answered almost as if he was offended. A simple, but harsh NO was his answer.
You can stay, sure. But you would still get billed for it. They don't comp nights in the hospital.
Posted by: This Ain't Vegas at September 02, 2009 11:46 PM (IRC/t)
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Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized Heathcare...
The Senate made double sure and removed the non-existent death panels from their bill. . .
Posted by: JP at September 03, 2009 03:58 AM (VxiFL)
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If the governemnt - any government - assumes control of a resource, they will ration it. Lefties counter this with the asinine claim that "the, uh, like, free market totally rations all the time, man."
It's possible that they are so stupid as to believe this. It's also possible that they are lying through their teeth.
Being that they are lefties and thus inclined toward utopian totalitarianism, ends justifying means and so on, I'd give it a fifty/fifty which one it is. Save for the sad fact that Obama himself was for single-payer before he was against it, and that many on the left, including the advisors that help craft this bill, admit that it is intended to force us all into a single payer system.
So I'll take "Lying through their teeth" for a thousand, Alex.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at September 03, 2009 04:44 AM (Vcyz0)
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You can stay, sure. But you would still get billed for it. They don't comp nights in the hospital.
Well gee: what's better? A massive bill or death decided by a bureaucratic council? Is this even a serious point/objection??
Posted by: ECM at September 03, 2009 05:35 AM (q3V+C)
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Repeat after me.
There are no proposals in Congress that would "socialize" health care.
And somehow, I suspect you know that, which makes this a deeply dishonest post.
Posted by: JoeCitizen at September 03, 2009 10:09 AM (I/GPD)
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The legislation doesn't have to explicitly set up death panels nor does it have to explicitly "socialize" health care.
We already have the comparative analysis panels that were established under the cover of the $787 billion stimulus crap. Once the government controls the health care purse, it's not a big leap to use the comparative analysis to justify lack of coverage for particular procedures or the lack of payment to providers who perform the procedures against the panel recommendations.
"Socialized" health care can be achieved with the current proposals without explicitly calling for it. A public option is the mechanism. Mandate insurance (which, BTW, violates my right to free association), make the public option "cheap" for the consumer, mandate employer provided coverage, and make the penalty for not providing coverage cheaper than providing coverage. At the same time, mandate all kinds of minimum coverage of private insurance, limit the market to an exchange (sound familiar?), and add in guaranteed insurability which will necessarily make the price of private insurance prohibitively high. Pretty soon, there are no private insurers and the only option is socialized health care.
It will take time but socialized health care will be a reality with the public option.
The biggest problem with the current system is 3rd (and 4th) party payer. The insurance company pays the doctor bill and sometimes the employer pays for the insurance. The consumer is too far removed from the cost of the product. The government option takes what's bad in the current system and makes it worse.
The one who pays the bills has the power and control. The current health care proposals are not about health care. This is all about money, power, and control.
Posted by: gruntle at September 03, 2009 10:48 AM (zw8QA)
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Repeat after me.
Any program, agency, or law that takes from one person through and involuntary means (eg taxes) to provide goods, services, or redistribute wealth to another is a socialized/socialist program, agency, or law.
So yeah there are bills before Congress that will socialize medicine. If you don't understand that you haven't read HR 3200.
Posted by: Scott at September 03, 2009 10:53 AM (sQmd1)
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What ever happened to the sanctity of Life? Are we not made in the image of God? Man is the crown jewel of God's creation, not an evolutionary product of chance and time.
Posted by: vinny bobo at September 03, 2009 11:33 AM (pYSrH)
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"But you would still get billed for it. They don't comp nights in the hospital."
Imagine that. Actually paying for a service you received.
"There are no proposals in Congress that would "socialize" health care."
Actually, you must have not read the bill.
Sure you can keep your insurance if you want to. But if you change jobs, and as such loose employee provided insurance, you would be forced onto the government's insurance.
It is a way of, over time forcing everyone onto the program.
Posted by: Matt at September 03, 2009 01:53 PM (54Fjx)
14
Sounds like these claims of "socialization" are a dreadful slur. Perhaps one of those objecting to this distortion (if it is more than one) can tell me, just what is wrong with socialism in medicine or anything else? Shouldn't we be socializing EVERYTHING? I am confused....
Posted by: megapotamus at September 03, 2009 04:44 PM (r3tSH)
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There was a time in the 60's (the 1860's) when we had private fire fighters. Today we have socialized fire fighters, socialized police, socilaized libraries and socialized education.
As an industrialized nation, we are the only ones who don't have "socialized" health care. So why do we fall so far down the in the list of quality compared to cost?
Posted by: David L Terrenoire at September 03, 2009 10:26 PM (Bx4FB)
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Let me remind you that the VA is considered one of the best purveyors of health care in the US.They have problems, yes, as any large organization does, but in ever measure, patients are better cared for and happier than in our for-profit health insurance plan.
Substitute Palin's "death panels" for living wills and you'll see how fear-mongering and irresponsible those claims are.
I have an organ donor alert on my license. Oh my!
Posted by: David L Terrenoire at September 03, 2009 10:41 PM (Bx4FB)
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You don't talk to too many vets do you David.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 04, 2009 10:01 AM (9C63i)
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Living will = voluntary.
Government by definition not voluntary.
What color is the sky on your planet?
Posted by: SDN at September 04, 2009 12:09 PM (F3wAI)
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David sounds like he watched a video produced for economic illiterates that's been sweeping the liberal intertubes recently. He also doesn't recognize the difference between state and local control of police, fire and library resources versus the federalization of healthcare contemplated by Obama. Moron.
Posted by: daleyrocks at September 04, 2009 06:02 PM (3O5/e)
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"You don't talk to too many vets do you David."
No he doesn't. I had so many problems with them that I choose to deal totally with my own insurance.
Posted by: Matt at September 06, 2009 08:41 AM (54Fjx)
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Personally, I understood Palin's comment as hyperbole. The proposed sections dealing with what to do about certain cases, and who is to make those decisions, could be called a death panel. So what?
Unfortunately, when you use hyperbole your more fanatical opponents will either not understand that is IS hyperbole or they will intentionally misrepresent your point. Ask Rush if THAT'S ever happened to him.

Posted by: DoorHold at September 06, 2009 01:09 PM (EeTHH)
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Is Teaching Kids to Quit a Better Idea?
I see a lot of my peers are getting angry at the thought of President Obama addressing schoolchildren in a nationwide address at 12:00 PM (Eastern) on September 8.
Some people are worried that the address is attempt at indoctrination, and considering that is precisely how Obama blew through millions of dollars in causing the Chicago Annenberg Challege to go belly-up, it probably isn't a completely unreasonable fear.
That said, look at his track record.
Barack Obama is incompetent at indoctrinating pretty much anyone, as his free-falling poll numbers suggest. He accomplished nothing for his effort in Chicago other than to provide funding for former domestic terrorists, and so I doubt another effort on September 8 would be anything other than yet another dismal failure on his already thin résumé.
Some
people I
admire say that we should keep our kids home that day, to send him a message. I think that's a bad idea.
First, as I already noted, Obama has a dismal record of being able to make converts out of kids, and can generally only affect children through those soft-skulled souls that have willingly chucked aside reason in order to maintain their community-based reality. While the children of liberals may be enthralled, the children of more rational moderates and independents and conservatives will recognize an infomercial when they see one. They will afford the President no more time or respect that they would any other huckster, and will tune him out within moments.
Further, forbidding your children from hearing his empty platitudes gives the impression that there is something in his speech that constitutes a threat to what they are being taught at home. It makes him forbidden fruit, instead of merely a fruitcake. It also teaches them that they should quit or skulk away when they encounter a bad idea of a problem, instead of taking it head-on. I want my kids to face life by taking on challenges, not shirking them.
Finally, it may behoove you to call your school and ask if they even intend to carry the President's address. My daughter's elementary school has no plans to participate, feeling that children are better served by learning.
People seem to forget that while Obama can try to get our children to be a captive audience, even reliably left-leaning educators know that our children should spend their time in more worthwhile pursuits.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Maybe the Republicans should demand equal time, and let Limbaugh talk to the kiddies for a while.
I would PAY to see Rush's rebuttal of the O.
Posted by: filbert at September 02, 2009 03:35 PM (oVl3l)
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Rush would do a better job.
Posted by: david at September 02, 2009 03:58 PM (dccG2)
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I pretty much agree with all your points but not your conclusion.
Why is he doing this and why won't he release what he's going to talk about?
People are freaking out over health care, seeing themselves and people they know being told to shut up and now Obama is going to bypass them and talk to their kids.
Whatever his intent, the release of the questions for afterward and refusal to tell what he expects the kids to "help" him with makes it pretty wrong.
Also, think about having teachers push the kids to do what Papa Obama says to do. That's messed up too.
There are times when a futile gesture is called for. You have to let the powers that be know that there are places where they have no right to go.
If he's surprised by the reaction, that's because he's not paying any attention at all to anything.
If he's not surprised, that says something worse.
Posted by: Veeshir at September 02, 2009 04:04 PM (PzVOq)
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This is egregious conduct. Those children are required, by law, to watch a speech by an elected politician.
Posted by: Roy Lofquist at September 02, 2009 04:45 PM (Aa3wK)
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Man I am glad my children do not go to a public school.
Posted by: Matt at September 02, 2009 09:43 PM (54Fjx)
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Keep children home? Perhaps, but not out of fear of the power of Obama to persuade young minds. There are other reasons that are more compeling:
1) If your school is foolish enough to allow this, particularly if their implement the White House suggestions for study and activities (substitute "Dear Leader" for "President Obama" and they're identical to Marxist primer propaganda) you've learned beyond any doubt that they're prone to left wing political indoctrination and untrustworthy.
2) Make it clear to your school that such things are improper and have no place in subverting scarce teaching hours. Make it clear that there will be consequences for such malpractice.
3) Make it clear to the White House that you won't stand for Marxist indoctrination, anywhere, in any way at any time.
At the very least, make your views about the anti-America, anti-democracy nature of such idiocy known in clear and forceful--but polite--terms to any educator who would foolishly allow this, or anything like it.
Posted by: mikemcdaniel at September 02, 2009 11:17 PM (GPINL)
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Has there ever been a President so addicted to public speechifying as the Big O? I used to think Clinton was a publicity whore, but Obama makes him look like a Trappist monk.
Whatever his speech is about, this is not appropriate behavior. I know I'm pissing into the wind here, but education is most logically a community function, and there's no good argument for making it a responsibility of the federal government.
Well, when I say "good" I am discounting the rightness of state sanctioned indoctrination of children. But that's just me, bitter clinger that I am.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at September 03, 2009 04:48 AM (Vcyz0)
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I'm thinking you could turn this into a "teachable moment" either way. If you elect for your children to sit through this, you could send them along to school in the appropriate uniform complete with armband. After, of course, showing them where you are drawing the references from. If you keep them home you can tune in together and have your child watch the President's address with real adult supervision again noting historic similarities, constructively drawing distinctions and coming to conclusions. I would hope that as a parent you would be capable of educating/ innoculating your child.
Posted by: Barney at September 03, 2009 10:30 AM (3UOyd)
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If Teleprompter Jesus was planning on giving a 20 minute speech on staying in school, studying hard, avoiding drugs, or doing pull ups, or hell, even 'getting active in your community', I'd not have a problem with this.
It's the worksheet that is being given out for this. It's not JUST the 20 minutes of talking, there's suggestions that kids make this an all day, everyone help each other out type event. Crap like "Have the children write letters on how they can help the president" is what I'm irked over, not the speech itself (as if any kids will give a leaping crap about what he says).
Nowhere in the laundry list of suggestions does it promote children to *question* the president's policies. Nowhere are kids encouraged to "Discuss the pros and cons of the PResident's course of action". It's blanket genuflecting to authority. "Why is it important that we listen to the President and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?" is one of the questions on the sheet. What it should say is "Why is it important for our representatives to listen to the citizens". They way it's written, it gives kids the impression that government is a one way street - They speak, you figure out how to follow their directions.
If my daughter's school is going to show the speech and nothing else, she'll stay. If they're planning on doing this 'community organizing' BS, then I'm keeping her home. I will be MORE than happy to show her the video at home, but if they're going to waste her day with stupid group activities where they discuss how Community Organization helps prepare you to rule America, I have better things we can do. Like watch Spongebob Squarepants.
Posted by: Robb Allen at September 03, 2009 03:07 PM (MPhK9)
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Sweet Jesus, people, this is the president.I've watched Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush talk to school kids. To think the message - you are responsible for your education, work hard, you are the captain of your destiny, etc is somehow leftist brands you as crazy crazy.
Posted by: David L Terrenoire at September 03, 2009 09:54 PM (Bx4FB)
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"Have the children write letters on how they can help the president"
I wrote a letter to Eisenhower. I liked him. My father, a hard-core Republican but with a sense of humor, suggested I make a reference to Gary Powers.l didn't. I had no idea what he was talking about.
Still, I liked Eisenhower, and still do.
Posted by: David L Terrenoire at September 03, 2009 10:01 PM (Bx4FB)
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David, the lesson plan is the problem. Not the speech.
Posted by: Robb Allen at September 04, 2009 07:13 AM (MPhK9)
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Robb,
I found a copy of the lesson plan and don't see why everyone's knickers are in a twist. I guess the most controversial piece is after the speech when students are asked what was it that the president said that inspired them.
That's hardly indoctrination. And it shows how little you trust your kids to think for themselves.
But if I missed what it is that you object to in the lesson plan, you point it out. I'd be happy to learn why you all are so angry about this.
Because as it is now, this just makes you seem crazy.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at September 04, 2009 10:55 AM (LUDhw)
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"...this just makes you seem crazy."
Seems? Nay, this is not seems.
Posted by: yeah, seem at September 05, 2009 04:16 PM (IRC/t)
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State Dept. Extended Blackwater's Air Arm in Iraq
The simple fact of the matter is that they're the best organization for the job.
State Department officials said Wednesday they have extended a contract with a subsidiary of the security firm once known as Blackwater USA despite the fact the North Carolina company is not allowed to work in the country.
Three officials said the contract with Presidential Airways to provide air support for U.S. diplomats was temporarily extended because the firm chosen to replace it is not yet ready to take over. The contract was due to expire on Sept. 3 and be taken over a day later by Dyncorp International.
Presidential is the air wing of Xe Services, of Moyock, N.C., which used to be known as Blackwater. The Iraqi government refused to grant the company an operating license earlier this year amid continued outrage over a 2007 lethal firefight involving some of its employees in Baghdad.
One official said that providing helicopter air support for American diplomats in Iraq - transporting them and overflying their convoys - is a "complex challenge" and that "a slower transition to DynCorp taking over the task order is in the best interest of the government."
"We unilaterally extended the current task order ... to ensure the continued security and safety of U.S. personnel in Iraq," the official said.
Numerous allegations have been made against Blackwater (now Xe) and founder Eric Prince, ranging from excessive use of force, to smuggling weapons to attempting a crusade, with allegation more hysteric than the last.
The simple fact of the matter, however, is that Xe is an entire
range of companies, and does far more than just provide security contractors. Presidential performs a role that other contractors have not been able to perform to the same standards, freeing up military aviators to support the mission instead of ferrying VIPs.
I can only imagine that this news is going to cause a knee-jerk response among the less-informed, but the simple fact of the matter is that the decision is a pragmatic one, to ensure that our diplomats are in the best of care.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Blackwater, now Xe, should tell the gov't to suck it and let them deal with this themselves. Why on earth would you allow your personell to be set up as the bad guy by the people that are paying you?
Posted by: Tim Mayhugh at September 02, 2009 02:44 PM (PnG/3)
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My Dad worked for Dyncorp. Not a very well run company. It doesn't surprise me they cant take over on time.
Posted by: JP at September 03, 2009 03:53 AM (VxiFL)
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As a veteran, I take umbrage that your suggestion that our soldiers and Marines are somehow lacking in theitr duties.
Posted by: David L Terrenoire at September 03, 2009 10:05 PM (Bx4FB)
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David, our soldiers don't have the responsibility of protecting State Dept. employees, and I don't know that they ever have. How can they be lacking in duties they aren't even tasked to perform?
I think you're being a bit over-sensitive.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 03, 2009 10:08 PM (WjpSC)
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Pardon me, Bob, but our Marines guard our embassies.
Posted by: David L Terrenoire at September 03, 2009 10:18 PM (Bx4FB)
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Marines guard embassy grounds and personnel on embassy grounds, yes. But out and about, the State Dept is supposed to provide their own security via the Bureau of Diplomatic Security.
Not up to the task for war zones, they've hired paramilitary contractors to handle security in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other locations as well.
Just the facts.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 03, 2009 10:25 PM (WjpSC)
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our soldiers don't have the responsibility of protecting State Dept. employees,
My point is they do have that responsibility. To extend that responsibility outside of embassy grounds is not a great stretch.
And you were wrong.
Our men and women can and should protect our State Dept. people just as we would want them to protect any citizen, let alone a government representative, from harm.
Your argument suggests we can't do the job, and as a veteran and member of a military family, I do indeed take umbrage at that suggestion.
You are wrong, Bob.
Posted by: David L Terrenoire at September 03, 2009 10:33 PM (Bx4FB)
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@CY: "The simple fact of the matter is that they're the best organization for the job. ..."
I ask people who hate anyone who's gotten a contract in Iraq, "OK, who would YOU have hired to do the job?"
It IS a simple matter of fact that companies hired in Iraq are among the ONLY ones that could do what's being asked of them.
Posted by: DoorHold at September 06, 2009 01:20 PM (EeTHH)
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On Being a Domestic Terrorist
I learned this morning that I am a domestic terrorist... or at least our President's allies consider me one.
I am under no illusions that the White House approved this specific language or had a direct hand in the wording of this appeal, but I do know that they have surrounded themselves with allies who feel exactly like the person who wrote about the majority of Americans opposed to government-run healthcare:
All 50 States are coordinating in this – as we fight back against our own Right-Wing Domestic Terrorists who are subverting the American Democratic Process, whipped to a frenzy by their Fox Propaganda Network ceaselessly re-seizing power for their treacherous leaders.
Americans with homemade posters protesting government intrusion into their very lives are "right wing domestic terrorists." Exercising our rights to peaceably assemble and raise our voices against the government thrusting themselves unwanted into our most private decisions is "subverting the American Democratic Process." And apparently we all watch Fox News (for the propaganda, of course) so we can re-seize power for our "treacherous leaders."
This message—which has since been taken down now that attention has been drawn to it—was not on a MySpace page or some amateur ranter's Blogspot site. It was posted on
http://www.barackobama.com/.
It was on the President's web site, placed there by an ally, and summarily taken down without apology. The heated invective was aimed squarely at the majority of Americans that do not want this government involved with healthcare. And why should we trust them wit our lives, when they can't even run a
simple rebate program correctly...or without pillaging the FAA of
air traffic controllers to do the job?
We have every reason not to trust the government to be any more efficient with health-care than they have been with, well, anything else. We have no reason to expect that it would be more competently funded or solvent for the long term than Social Security or Medicare, and every reason to suspect that it will cause harm to the quality of health-care we receive.
Barack Obama and his allies swept into power on a promise of providing a new chapter in the relationship between Americans and their government. Now they tell me I'm a terrorist.
With his choice of allies and the messages they deliver and how they feel about us, he's certainly delivered on his promise.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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CY
what the heck is with those underlined links in this article? Has your site been hacked?
Posted by: iconoclast at September 02, 2009 12:25 PM (uYj3Z)
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Why does the line from Hunt for Red October, uttered by Fred Thompson as RADM Joshua Painter come to mind:
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."
IMO, BO's brown shirts have no clue the nature of the ground on which they've decided to tread...
Posted by: Diogenes Online at September 02, 2009 12:50 PM (2MrBP)
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President Pantywaist has been afraid .. yes, afraid of FoxNews since the beginning of the campaign
Posted by: Neo at September 02, 2009 01:08 PM (tE8FB)
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What about those of us in the other seven states?
Posted by: inspectorudy at September 02, 2009 01:35 PM (wkCYX)
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This remonds me of the bumper stickers and signs I saw a few years ago when the Republicans were in control of Congress that said something to the effect of "Take Back Your Country - Vote Democratic". Take it back from whom? Did I miss something? Were we invaded? Is this a "Red Dawn" kind of thing? Take YOUR country back from THE OTHER HALF OF THE COUNTRY? Whose leaders are treacherous? The Americans ... or the other Americans? This is arrogance and elitism unbound. Us vs. them. Class warfare. Brother vs. brother. Father vs. son. We're more divided now than at any time during the previous administration. The giant has been awakened ... and it is not happy.
Posted by: Beaker at September 02, 2009 02:29 PM (wD4NT)
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This reminds me of the bumper stickers and signs I saw a few years ago when the Republicans were in control of Congress that said something to the effect of "Take Back Your Country - Vote Democratic". Take it back from whom? Did I miss something? Were we invaded? Is this a "Red Dawn" kind of thing? Take YOUR country back from THE OTHER HALF OF THE COUNTRY? Whose leaders are treacherous? The Americans ... or the other Americans? This is arrogance and elitism unbound. Us vs. them. Class warfare. Brother vs. brother. Father vs. son. We're more divided now than at any time during the previous administration. The giant has been awakened ... and it is not happy.
Posted by: Beaker at September 02, 2009 02:30 PM (wD4NT)
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We are only 8 months into his term and he is calling us "terrorists". What ever happened to "my colleagues on the other side of the isle."
Posted by: Dave at September 02, 2009 04:28 PM (RFp8N)
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This is the way Obama has operated since he started campaigning. He surrounds himself with these goons and grants them tacit approval to do whatever they feel is needed. If they go too far and create a backlash, it's easy enough to disavow the "out of context" message and offer a non-apologetic aplogy ("I'm sorry your feelings were hurt because you misunderstood my nunace"). Meanwhile he keeps his hands clean, gets plausible deniability, and pretends to be above it all ("like God," in the brilliant yet nauseating formulation of Evan Thomas).
Obama has never, to my knowledge, displayed a shred of personal or moral courage in anything, and obviously has no inclination to get down and dirty. He has people do the bloodletting for him.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at September 02, 2009 07:16 PM (Vcyz0)
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Posted by: dfdsdgf at September 02, 2009 10:31 PM (d0KeN)
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@Beaker: "We're more divided now than at any time during the previous administration."
Say WHA-A-A-AT?
There was PLENTY of opposition around during the last eight years; signs, placards, petitions, protests, reactionism, violence, et al. Where were you?
Posted by: DoorHold at September 06, 2009 01:33 PM (EeTHH)
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August 31, 2009
What Kind of "Man of God" is This?
I said several weeks ago that I thought carrying firearms to political events was needlessly provocative and counterproductive; now I find out that the man who carried the Bushmaster Carbon-15 rifle wants President Obama to die, and belongs to a fringe storefront church where the pastor proudly reiterates the same message. Lovely.
Charles has the video, which is utterly indefensible.
I think Barack Obama is an arrogant, incompetent ideologue. I disagree with almost every political position he holds and many moral positions as well. I think his Presidency will do far more harm to this country and to this world than good.
That said, we should be hoping that he ends up making the right decisions despite his incompetence and foolishness, or that at a minimum, that the makes mistakes that we can learn from and rectify.
Wishing death upon him—especially something as agonizing as cancer—is not the wish of a true follower of Christ's teaching, and to hear a so-called pastor praying for that makes me wonder if it is Christ he actually serves.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Just lovely - another twisted "religious" nut for the liz-tards to foam at the mouth over. I'm sure CJ is just eating that up. I will not click the link to find out. I'm not giving him any more traffic.
Posted by: Diogenes Online at August 31, 2009 09:36 PM (Uapqz)
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If there's any positive to all of this it's the fact that this very sick individual has been identified and will now be under constant scrutiny.
Like you, I disagree with almost everything liberals stand for and will speak out with strong language, if necessary. However, this goes far beyond the pale. Very sick person he.
Posted by: Dell at August 31, 2009 09:42 PM (NzENZ)
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I guess these guys are true Christians like the 100% NARAL Kennedy was a true Catholic.
Posted by: Pinandpuller at September 01, 2009 01:12 AM (aRm4V)
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As much as I disagree with Obama about everything, he is still my President. I do not wish him any form of harm or injury. He was duly elected and is now my President. Instead, and I expect I will hear about this, it is God that will deal with the President. He puts up and takes down leaders as He sees fit. Obama, like all others, will eventually be judged by God and have to give an answer to all his actions.
Besides, on a lighter note, if something did happen to our President, then it would be Joe Biden (and if both are gone, guess who we have?)
Posted by: David at September 01, 2009 05:26 AM (mgKyX)
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Fringe is as fringe does. Yawn. He's no less Christian than Obama, and just another opinion among the masses. I can't give a flying fig about Charles Johnson, he's revealed himself as an anti religious bigot to the core.
Let me know when Bushmaster man commits an illegal act. Maybe then he can share a cell with William Ayers.
Oh, wait...
Guess he'll have to occupy his cell all alone.
Posted by: ThomasD at September 01, 2009 09:48 AM (21H5U)
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If you paid a little closer attention, you would know that Obama is not an ideologue. He's a pragmatist who will sacrifice his own positions in favor of consensus. He's still trying to get bi-partisan agreements on bills after being consistently stiffed by the Republicans.
You might compare this with Bush, who really was an ideologue and didn't waste any energy trying to get democratic votes.
I don't mean to suggest that Obama isn't liberal, or that you should accept his positions. I just think you weaken your argument when you assert things which are not so.
Posted by: Eye5600 at September 01, 2009 10:32 AM (ny35Y)
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Well the man does have a right to his opinion, though I think stooping to the level of liberals is not a good thing.
As for Eye5600, Obama and the Dems do not seek bi-partisan legislation, they seek Republican endorsement (and thus a share of the blame) of their polices. Nothing more.
None of the major bills have had any Republican input while drafting them and any Republican amendments get rejected or overturned later on.
For the most part neither party really gives a rat's rear end about the people who put them in office.
Posted by: Scott at September 01, 2009 10:42 AM (sQmd1)
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Scott, what do you mean "stooping to the level of the liberals"? I've known liberals to call for Bush's impeachment but not his death; and certainly not from a pulpit. In this country it's typically conservatives who use violence.
Posted by: cavalier at September 01, 2009 12:17 PM (b9Bx2)
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Good post Bob.
Lots of BDS in your comments, but good post.
Oh, and y'all may want to actually look up the definition for ideologue.
Posted by: Gus Bailey at September 01, 2009 12:54 PM (LZarw)
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"I've known liberals to call for Bush's impeachment but not his death"--
Well, then you don't know very much about Liberals. I've personally had them tell me that they want to kill Bush, kill all Republicans, kill everyone that voted for the invasion of Iraq, draft Bush's daughters so they'll be killed, and to kill everyone at Fox news.
Now you know.
Posted by: brando at September 01, 2009 01:26 PM (IPGju)
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Cavalier you mean to tell me you missed the liberals hoping for Bush & Cheney's (especially Cheney) deaths? Bush not so often as Cheney but it was there.
Evey time Cheney went into the hospital the left exploded with hopes he'd die of something. Exactly what the AZ minister is doing here.
On the flip side lets actually examine this for a minute. The idea of Biden or Pelosi as PotUS is truly terrifying (why do you think Hillary is so far down the succession line) and I hope nothing does happen to Obama. I don't wish ill on others, its bad karma and unchristian to boot.
Now from their point of view they believe that Obama's death would stop his agenda, I disagree with this but more on that later. A "natural" death via an act of God does three things, in their minds it affirms God's sheltering hand over America, it prevents the need for violence (either in the form of revolution or an Oswald), and it leaves the Left with nobody to vilify, prosecute, or attack. Thus they pray for an act of God.
I believe however that Biden/Pelosi/Reid would get a lot of legislation passed on sympathy, just like happened after JFK was killed, and just like they are trying with TK's death.
No, it is far better for Obama to be disgraced and ineffective. To have his own party afraid to side with him in fear of losing their seats in the next election than for the Left to use him as a rallying point or martyr.
Posted by: Scott at September 01, 2009 01:59 PM (sQmd1)
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This pastor hated Bush as well.
Posted by: Sumo at September 01, 2009 06:54 PM (a6mnK)
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What does Obama call Joe Biden?
Better protection than the Secret Service!
Posted by: Brad at September 02, 2009 05:37 AM (8aCuP)
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My God said he will take revenge and our job is to turn it over to him.I believe he will as he always does take care of all, just give it to him and go on.
Posted by: Chris at September 02, 2009 06:53 PM (k3kPm)
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Oops! If MSNBC covers this, they'll have to edit the video so it only shows him from the neck down.
Seriously, though -- I have no problem whatsoever with federal authorities keeping an eye on this Biblically illiterate fool. Having already brought a weapon to the exterior of an Obama appearance, Broughton had the chance to say that he didn't want to see the President assassinated and refused to do so.
At least the stupid "Reverend" said he wanted him to die a natural death from cancer. Cooler liberal heads will contrast "I hate him and want him to die" with Rush Limbaugh's simple hope that Obama fails in his drive to "fundamentally transform the United States of America." But it seems almost all liberals nowadays shampoo with 92 octane Head & Shoulders and light up a cigarette.
Posted by: L.N. Smithee at September 03, 2009 01:28 PM (9ACRz)
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@Cavalier: "I've known liberals to call for Bush's impeachment but not his death ..."
If I'm parsing your probably intentionally misleading sentence correctly, you are aware of liberals you don't PERSONALLY know who have called for his death, right?
It's certainly hard to believe you missed eight years of; ranting, raving, articles, art, books, comics and movies wishing for, CALLING for, even outright portraying, his death.
If you DID miss it all, you have one of the worst cases of liberal-blinders I've seen.
Posted by: DoorHold at September 06, 2009 01:54 PM (EeTHH)
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August 28, 2009
Standing Your Ground
Apparently my most recent article for Pajamas Media didn't sit right for some people. The article, A Man's Wal-mart is His Castle? was written about a shooting that took place in a Billings, MT store after a argument escalated into gunplay.
More than one reader in the comments thought that my article was misleading and inflammatory, and they are welcome to their options. I'm sorry if you felt that way, because I didn't consciously mean to be provocative.
The reason the article come about is because Montana recently passed
House Bill 228, which was the state's version of the "castle doctrine," also known as a "stand your ground" law. Many states have a variant of the law, but what makes Montana's law interesting is that the language of the bill has what appears to be a very low threshold to the use of lethal force.
Section 1. No duty to summon help or flee. Except as provided in 45-3-105, a person who is lawfully in a place or location and who is threatened with bodily injury or loss of life has no duty to retreat from a threat or summon law enforcement assistance prior to using force. The provisions of this section apply to a person offering evidence of justifiable use of force under 45-3-102, 45-3-103, or 45-3-104.
What constitutes a threat of bodily injury in the eyes of Montana's courts? That is a very broad term, and much lesser threshold than is common elsewhere.
Any number of found objects and makeshift weapons can be used to threaten bodily injury. Does this mean that a man cheating on his wife can then shoot her if she throws a plate at him when she finds out? Apparently so. Even a thrown punch or slap may be enough provocation to justify deadly force under this law, which seems to be the allegation in the Schmidt/Lira incident.
Quite a few people in the comments of that post seem to think that a thrown punch is enough to justify a bullet in return. The way I was trained, I find that excessive, and both illegal and ethically immoral in most instances.
I took my
concealed carry course while other were preparing to watch the Steelers play the Cardinals in Super Bowl XLIII, and we were taught as many military and law enforcement officers are taught about the escalation of force or
use of force continuum as it applies to us as concealed carry permit holders in North Carolina:
There are four rigid criteria that must be satisfied to justify shooting another person in self defense in North Carolina, but I imagine the law here isn't too much different in the 30 or so other states where concealed carry is allowed.
In plain English, we can't start a confrontation, must try to diffuse or escape the situation if we can, and can only pull a weapon when some tries to kill or sexually assault someone else or ourselves, and once we fire, we can only shoot to stop the threat, not to kill. That last detail was printed on the bottom of every page of the course syllabus, in bold text: Do not shoot to kill. Shoot to stop the lethal threat.
In practicality, there are three rules to follow in deciding whether or not deadly force is justified. explained as A.O.J.
Ability: the attacker or attackers must have the ability to kill or cripple.
Opportunity: the attacker must immediately be capable of employing that power.
Jeopardy: the attacker is acting in such a manner that a prudent person would conclude that the act was mean to kill or cripple.
You’ve got to decide if a threat meets all three criteria, and oh, and by the way… in "real world" scenarios, the CCH holder usually has just seconds to make that determination. Legal self defense is not for the stupid. At this point of the class, I was beginning to think that think it would be far more practical to apply for a "concealed lawyer" permit, if I could only find one small enough to shove in a holster.
Craig Schmidt shot Danny Lira in the face after Lira punched Schmidt, and Schmidt fell to the ground. That was enough justification for some, it seems. They make anecdotal arguments citing the relatively few number of people who have been killed with a punch, and also cite Lira's 260-pound weight (and roughly 100 pound weight difference) as justification for the much lighter Schmidt to shoot him.
If Lira was 260+ pounds of ripped muscle like UFC Heavyweight Champion
Brock Lesnar or some sort of other imposing figure I may buy that argument, but Schmidt was three inches taller than the 5"9" 260-pound doughball that he shot. Lira is certainly heavy, but heavy does not automatically mean that person have an advantage.
Going back to the guidelines I have learned to operate under, this is how I might judge the defensibility of the Schmidt/Lira shooting.
Ability: the attacker or attackers must have the ability to kill or cripple.
Unknown, but doubtful.
Opportunity: the attacker must immediately be capable of employing that power.
Lira obviously had the ability to throw a punch, but it is dubious to claim he has the power or ability to kill or cripple.
Jeopardy: the attacker is acting in such a manner that a prudent person would conclude that the act was mean to kill or cripple.
Absolutely not. In no iterations of the story told by either man did Lira press his attack, and if Lira's version of events is closer to the truth than Schmidt's, the Lira was the one attacked when Schmidt hit him first, meaning his punch was a defensive reaction.
Additionally, if Lira's claim that Schmidt slammed into him with his shoulder can be verified, that would indicate that Schmidt was acting as a agent provocateur, attempting to escalate an argument in an attempt to justify an attempt at murder.
Admittedly, this is all speculation at this point, and many of the key details of this case as yet unknown to the public.
Perhaps Schmidt will be found justified.
Perhaps Lira will be proven the victim.
Either way, HB 228 remains a seriously flawed attempt at providing the citizens of Montana a variation of the castle doctrine, and one that needs to quickly be revised.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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A good share of what you've described as law certainly flies in the face of every bit of training I endured over close to 28 years. I fully understand the differences in law between states, but the majority of criminal law as it pertains to the use of deadly force has more or less remained the same, especially with regard to escalation and the "escape" clause. What you've described is a "whole new ballgame".
I must be getting terribly old because I was taught to NEVER shoot unless it's to kill (or neutralize, as we were most often taught...different words; same meaning). The same goes for so-called warning shots. You just didn't fire warning shots, back in the day.
In Texas, you don't even have to show a fear of imminent danger! If someone comes on your property and you can show fear - even if it's just fear they are there to steal from you - you have the right to fire when ready!
Posted by: Dell at August 28, 2009 09:24 PM (NzENZ)
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It is easy to look back and judge when one was not involved in the situation. For many, when attacked by an individual that weighs much more than you can be a scary and frightening experience. 100 pounds difference is more than many would like to handle, especially if one has not had the training necessary to deal with such a threat.
Also, having my CCL, we were taught to aim for center body mass. With the adrenline flowing mixed in with some fear, it becomes extremely difficult to control or aim for a specific area of the body. In my class, we were told to aim for the largest target (Center Body Mass). Any other area puts your life at risk, and may do nothing more than make the assilant mad.
If Craig Schmidt was on the ground, looking at someone who weighed 100 pounds more than he, I could not blame him for firing. However, your guide lines are a good starting point, but all need to remember that situations change. But there is much to this story that still needs to be examined and explained.
Posted by: David at August 28, 2009 09:57 PM (mgKyX)
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Agree with you 100%, David...especially the part about much that needs to be examined and/or explained. Sounds like we went to the same school.
"Two hand hold. Knees slightly bent. Point shoulder (not aimed via the sights). Make the decision - shoot or don't shoot. If you shoot, you fire two rounds directed toward the center of mass."
It sounds cut and dried. Obviously, it isn't.
Posted by: Dell at August 28, 2009 10:24 PM (NzENZ)
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I'll bet that more than 90% of the jury nullifications that occur involve shootings in self defense. It appears to me that the law in many jurisdictions does not comport with the popular sentiment. Concealed carry must issue and no retreat doctrine are spreading across the country. I fully expect this to accelerate.
Posted by: Roy Lofquist at August 28, 2009 10:31 PM (Aa3wK)
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Bob, having read your PJM article and many of the comments, I offer you a different perspective. And it has nothing to do with the particulars of the incident. Rather, it is your rather quick, and dare I say, kneejerk reaction to Montana's "Castle" law. Until the case is adjudicated, we have no idea what impact the new law will have. It could well be that the prosecutor (or litigator, if relegated to civil court) proves that the shooting was unwarranted.
Many of us are applauding Montana placing the burden of proof of a wrongful shooting upon the person alleging a wrongful shoot; too long has it been the burden of the rightful gun owner to prove their innocence. In an ideal world, a true jury of ones peers would understand the intent of the law, then issue rational judgment. Too often we have seen irrational jurists and onerous governing laws issuing ludicrous decisions. In Montana, we see legislators counteracting what defense lawyers have long taken advantage of. But before we (you) spend our ammo on the legislation, perhaps we ought to wait till any trial is concluded to see if it is warranted.
Posted by: bains at August 28, 2009 10:53 PM (yuTIY)
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I have a CCP in the state of Ga. and I would never pull my weapon unless I was being mortally threatened. But you are trying to make self defense a legal maze. I don't know the particulars of this case but if someone socked me in the face knocking me to the ground I would consider that a life threatening event. The whole point of CCP's is that you don't have to where running shoes and you don't have to be a lawyer to protect your life. Moderation is expected from anyone carrying but stupidity is not an asset.
Posted by: inspectorudy at August 29, 2009 12:01 AM (wkCYX)
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Seriously? NC teaches shoot to wound? I'd be interested to know what agency or organization has decided that using a gun in self defense you are to try to just injure, not kill?
Every class I've taken has taught you use the gun you shoot to kill.
Posted by: DavidB at August 29, 2009 12:49 AM (bw2I7)
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Watch the video of the Centennial bridge shooting by police. . A cop stoppped a large man walking on the bridge . Told the man to get down who was slow to do so. The cop tasered the man and the man attacked the cop instantly knocking the cop down. Smashed the cops head on the pavement and bit off his eyebrow. Another off duty cop came to the aid of the cop and tried to pull the man off the cop. Was unable to, but did separate enough for the cop to pull his gun and shot twice.
It was legit shooting. The man died. He had 15 minutes before violently attacked another person.
Once violence ocuurs to you , no one should have to depend on the mercy of the attacker not to do further damge. A kick to the head will kill and had happened in other cases.
So I disagree, that was a good shoot. If a heavy person knockes me down with violent intent then I do have the right to defend with deadly force.
Posted by: RAH at August 29, 2009 07:01 AM (K8p1o)
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Uhnsurprisingly I find NC's law to be more egregious than MT's.
NC puts the onus on the defender to somehow take into consideration the degree of the threat while simultaneosuly being assaulted, then judges them in the calm of hindsight. Thus giving the aggressor free range and whatever time they may require to calculate presicely the level of force that will not warrant getting shot at any time before initiating the assault.
Bass Ackwards.
Look at what happened to that movie star who fell while skiing last winter - even a minor blow to the head can be lethal. Size simply does not matter. Tripping someone while their hands are occupied easily leaves their head defenseless against whatever hard objects are in the area. I strongly doubt that the NC standard includes 'tripping' as an act intended to 'kill or cripple' yet we all know such acts most certainly can do precisely that.
The fact is that any physical assault is potentially lethal. Yes, some more so than others. But let's put the onus on the aggressor, not the defender.
Unwarranted assault is a crime. That the defender may choose a -potentially- disproportionate defense really should not be considered a fault of the defender, more an unfortunate consequence of the attacker's unlawful actions.
Montana's law is much more clear and just: If you don't want to get shot then don't get physical, because once it gets physical somebody might die.
Posted by: ThomasD at August 29, 2009 09:53 AM (UK5R1)
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I don't think that the NC training is saying shoot to wound, like some woman on the news crying about her kid, "why didn't them cops shoot the gun out of his hand?" I think it's saying shoot with the intent to stop the attack. A couple rounds center of mass is the most reliable means of stopping an attack, all things considered. It will likely stop them by killing them, but it might stop them without killing them. This is opposed to shooting game, wherein I want a kill shot, and won't fire if I don't have one. Also it expresses a similarity to bombing a nuclear weapons facility with civilian scientists and workers: the intent is to stop the weapon program, and their deaths are a known but unintended consequence of this intent being carried out.
Meanwhile, bodily harm is the proper standard, as there is absolutely no amount of harm that a person should have to accept before defending themselves. Now, the particular situation? I have no idea. Even if he started a physical confrontation, if the other person escalated a jostle to such an extent that there was fear of real harm, I'd say clean shoot + simple assault. If he got what he gave, then it wouldn't be a clean shooting, and I'm not in a position to know.
Posted by: SoR at August 29, 2009 10:02 AM (1cITz)
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ThomasD's statement really went to the heart of it.
"Unwarranted assault is a crime. That the defender may choose a -potentially- disproportionate defense really should not be considered a fault of the defender, more an unfortunate consequence of the attacker's unlawful actions."
That's a really good way to put it.
Posted by: brando at August 29, 2009 11:45 AM (LjEkE)
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Now, the first time I read the article CY posted I thought it was a bit over the top, but then I read it a second time and it was fairly decent.
Now there is one question I have to ask.
Here in NC if you initate the confrontation you may not use leathel force (outside of the home) unless you attempt to withdraw and make your withdraw known. Does Montana not have something similar?
The reason I ask is because even if you do not initate force, you can be seen as initating action by being the one who started the argument.
Posted by: Matt at August 29, 2009 11:49 AM (XKpp2)
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"A couple rounds center of mass is the most reliable means of stopping an attack"
Not the most reliable means, but the easiest and safest means.
A shot to the CNS is the most reliable way to make sure that person stops their attack. But it is much more difficult. Which is why you are taught to shoot center mass. It is a larger target, so you have less chance of missing. There are lots of vitals there to hit, and much more meat to stop the projectile from passing through the body and hurting someone on the other side.
But it is far from the most reliable way to stop them. I have seen people continue on for seconds to minutes after taking multiple hits to the chest.
Posted by: Matt at August 29, 2009 11:57 AM (XKpp2)
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Matt,
That's what I meant, actually, just didn't get it across, I guess. "most reliable means of stopping an attack, /all things considered/", meaning chance of a given wound being a disabling hit times the chance of actually hitting the target area, because a sloppy chest hit is more useful than a head miss. I would take a cns shot if I was absolutely sure of hitting the target area, but would target center of mass, otherwise.
That probably was no clearer about what I meant than in the first place, so just, "what he said".
Posted by: SoR at August 29, 2009 12:21 PM (1cITz)
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Hmmmm... a smaller man has a gun on him. He knows the law now says he can shoot to kill and not have to prove himself as not having escalated the matter.
The shooting victim says the smaller guy provoked the argument.
I don't see why the big guy threw the first punch. Because he's saying the other guy shouldered him - then he punched him. He's 100 pounds bigger than the guy who shouldered him. He had no need to hit the guy in self-defense - it would seem.
So, I don't believe the big guy (most likely - would need more info) acted in "self defense" to hit the smaller guy.
However, if the smaller guy began the physical altercation by shoundering the big guy - then I don't believe he deserves the "right" to use deadly force with a gun to shoot the guy for punching him.
He started it. If this guy started it by getting physical - it's not self-defense. It's assault with a deadly weapon, imo. The small guy provoked the big guy into a position where he shot him.
So, if the facts bear out the small guy started the physical part - and the small guy isn't charged for assault - this is a bad law.
Posted by: laura at August 29, 2009 01:31 PM (JFvHi)
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Mr. Owens, I guess I still don't understand the point you're trying to make. How is this HB 228 "a seriously flawed attempt at providing the citizens of Montana a variation of the castle doctrine"? If I've read you right you believe that this incident resulted in an unnecessary escalation of force..... And that somehow flaws this bill.
What I see was an escalation of force. Was it unnecessary, maybe, maybe not. I wasn't there lying on the ground with my head spinning, my ears ringing and that smokey taste in my mouth from a good punch.
As for a "flawed bill". I only see it as simply putting the onus on the DA to do his job. That is, find out what happened, determine if any laws were broke, prosecute if necessary. I haven't read the whole bill in question, but if it's like you say a variation of the Castle Doctrine, then this new law wouldn't preclude any of that.
What I don't see is if I was to shoot somebody, why am I automatically the guilty party? Should I be doing some explaining? Certainly. If I can't give a righteous reason for ventilating some perp then perhaps it's time to look at me real close. But, automatically guilty and locked up? Surely, that wasn't what you meant.
As for the part about "shoot to stop the threat, not to kill", I believe that is there for the time when it goes to a civil suit.
The way you rationalize that a thrown punch does not justify a bullet in return really, really bothers me. It has not been established that that is what happened. As of right now, the bullet was to stop an act of aggression that resulted in bodily injury with who knows what next on the agenda. To me, the use of only one bullet means that the guy did use some restraint.
Mr. Owens, I spent over 30 years active in the martial arts. I shot out two .45 barrels shooting Combat Pistol (about 45,000 rounds.) I've been hit, I've been hurt, hell I've been kicked into the cheap seats. I've a personal acquaintance who took 5 rounds from a .45, two in the chest and not only lived, he wasn't even knocked down. In this family, we don't practice guessing what some perp is going to do once he has us on the floor. We practice two in the chest, one in the face to stop the threat. That you don't feel that way is admirable that you've thought about it and taken a stand, but foolish. Who will protect your family when you go down?
Posted by: Barney at August 30, 2009 12:30 AM (WS+OR)
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Just his use of caliber would seem to indicate that he had no criminal intent to kill anyone. He could have done as much as he did do with a pricing gun.
Posted by: Pinandpuller at August 30, 2009 05:19 AM (aRm4V)
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>>"I've a personal acquaintance who took 5 rounds from a .45, two in the chest and not only lived, he wasn't even knocked down."
Heh. The 45 fans who believe that their weapon is akin to Thor's Hammers won't like to hear that.
Posted by: Steve at August 30, 2009 06:47 PM (DiJxB)
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CY, I've noticed a couple of facts that are inconsistent. In your Castle post, you and Dude shared the position, and lambasted Scott for being the only person in the world who would think that your article was leading. It exists entirely in his own mind. That’s what you said. So that’s fact 1. Scott twisted words, invented something out of thin air, he’s the only one in the world that wouldn’t see your article as straight, and he needs a hobby to help him deal with his break from reality.
But now you’re saying that “more than one” reader didn’t think that your article was written straight. That’s an understatement, as I counted many who thought the same thing. I suppose I could go through and give you an updated count, but I don’t think that’s necessary. That’s fact #2. “More than one”. Many others perceive something that exists entirely in Scott's mind. Those are mutually exclusive things.
How can both of those things be true? One does not equal more than one. Which one is wrong?
I know that Dude still maintains whatever he is, but surely you don’t actually believe that Scott sockpuppeted that many times?
Posted by: brando at August 30, 2009 07:16 PM (LjEkE)
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This post makes one thing clear. Montana is awesome. Actually, it makes two things clear, since we also learned that you should not throw plates at people and expect no repercussions.
Posted by: Kevin at August 31, 2009 07:16 AM (v3L+e)
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I think the message inherent in this incident is that if you're a big guy who likes to knock little people down, Montana might be a little hard on you. It'd be best if you were to go back to one of those little eastern states with the funny borders where if that sort of behaviour isn't actually condoned, at least it's tolerated.
Posted by: Barney at August 31, 2009 09:54 AM (3UOyd)
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Thanks for pointing that out Brando. I got a snide and snippy response from Mr. Owens, and I wonder if he's willing to take a bite of humble pie and show some class.
Again as I said before, letting a workplace argument escalate to violence of any kind is foolish and stupid. Even if Mr. Schmidt "started it", Mr. Lira was in no physical danger at that point and should have not thrown the punch. No matter which version is true Mr. Lira had the ability to prevent the escalation of this incident. He did not do so.
My "gut feeling" says the gun was unnecessary, I grew up where if you get into a fight you fight and take your lumps. A random every-dayish fight (like between kids and teens growing up) does not merit and should never escalate to deadly weapons. However, I'm not privy to all the facts and history involving this incident. Had Mr. Lira made threats before? Does he have a rep for verbally & physically intimidating/threatening behavior? Does he have a history of physical violence? We don't know, but we do know Mr. Schmidt had a CC permit thus he very likely doesn't have a history of violence, we also know he's 17 years Lira's senior. That would seem to make Lira's story unlikely, since getting a CC permit requires a background check and Schmidt's got almost 20 years more "history", and 20 years more "wisdom" (we'd hope). The two factors would indicate he's not a entirely foolish or stupid man, but it certainly doesn't preclude the possibility that Mr. Schmidt did "start it".
Personally I believe this incident is a poor choice for Mr. Owens to use for his standard on a piece against Montana's law. There's too much unknown, for example, had Mr. Lira made threats to Schmidt prior to this incident? Mr. Owens is being too much of an Armchair General, he wasn't there and it wasn't his person that was in danger. Also he seems to continue to maintain that the head shot was intentional while at the same time down playing that there was only one shot fired.
Had that single shot hit Mr. Lira's arm instead of striking his forehead would this story be as useful to Mr. Owens position against the Montana law? When people hear "shot in the face" or "shot in the head" they will often assume that the intent of the shooter was to kill. Especially those of the anti-gun persuasion. This intent cannot be clearly ascertained from the information presented by Mr. Owens sources. Had more than one shot been fired it would be a different case.
Posted by: Scott at August 31, 2009 12:27 PM (sQmd1)
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Scott, I know it might seem like I'm riding the fence when I say this, but your opening salvo might have had a little to do with his angry reaction.
MSNBC? Ouch.
Posted by: brando at August 31, 2009 12:43 PM (IPGju)
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"Ability: the attacker or attackers must have the ability to kill or cripple."
If a 260lb man had you down, all that he'd need to do was jump on your chest to kill you. A kick to the temple with work boots on would also do you in. More than enough capacity right there, let alone any random objects lying about the loading dock or a determined attempt to pin and strangle.
"Opportunity: the attacker must immediately be capable of employing that power."
Again, not hard to jump or even fall hard upon someone's chest/ribs or pin and choke.
"Jeopardy: the attacker is acting in such a manner that a prudent person would conclude that the act was mean to kill or cripple."
"I tried to stop him from turning back around to stab me," Danny Lira said...
Right there in the article about Lira's account Lira admits to pressing the attack after he punched Schmidt. Also in the accompanying photo there is no evidence of powder burns that would be likely if shot from less than a foot away, nor does the doctor mention them when speaking about Mr. Lira's injuries.
"Additionally, if Lira's claim that Schmidt slammed into him with his shoulder can be verified, that would indicate that Schmidt was acting as a agent provocateur, attempting to escalate an argument in an attempt to justify an attempt at murder."
Attempted murder? Again the evidence supporting this does not exist. You can in no way prove Mr. Lira's head was the intended placement of the shot and since only one shot was fired that Mr. Schmidt's intent was to kill. Had he emptied the clip into Mr. Lira that would be a different case.
This story just doesn't work for your intent Mr. Owens, you're trying to shoe-horn a size 12 foot into a size 6 shoe and it isn't working for you. I know the pickings are slim for stories that best demonstrate your point, which is that the Montana bill is too loose in its definition of what is "justifiable" force. However, trying to make this story work for you is actually detracting from the point you are attempting to make.
Posted by: Scott at August 31, 2009 12:59 PM (mqy6N)
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Brando, just chalk it up to a flashy lead to engage the reader. The opening question was designed to both grab attention and express a sort of "WTF man??!?!" disbelief by alluding to MSNBC's recent incident with the man attending the Town Hall meeting with an AR-15.
Posted by: Scott at August 31, 2009 01:11 PM (sQmd1)
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Here is Turley on the Montana law. I don't care for his politics but at least he quotes passages from the actual law to study.
http://jonathanturley.org/2009/08/14/montana-police-release-man-who-shot-co-worker-at-wal-mart-due-to-states-sweeping-castle-doctrine-law/
Posted by: inspectorudy at August 31, 2009 01:27 PM (wkCYX)
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Size doesn't really matter. I'm 6'1" 240 lbs. I'm fairly fit, but a little overweight. I have been told that when I try, I can be very intimidating looking. But I'm also over 50 and have two bad knees, two bad ankles and arthritus is one shoulder. I played a lot of sports, but I'm not a fighter. I am not trained to fight (with my fists). I ended every fight I found myself in as a kid by running away. The last fist fight I got in was 25 years ago and I got my ass handed to me by a guy half my size. (Long story but running away wasn't an option that time) In a fist fight or a brawl against any random guy off the street I would give my self a
So as I got older and decided that I needed learn how to defend me and mine, I decided to allow Mr. Colt to even the playing field. I had been shooting and hunting for years as a kid, but I still got myself a lot of pistol training.
I don't look for trouble. I go out of my way to avoid it. But if someone hits me hard enough to knock me down, regardless of how big he is (or isn't)- I will shoot him. Getting the crap kicked out of you by the guy who just knocked you down is the wrong way to learn how much damage your body can tolerate.
Posted by: David at August 31, 2009 04:49 PM (v3pYe)
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That kid in Seattle who got knocked into a wall by a deputy sheriff might have a comment to make about use of force escalation, perceived threats and size diferential but he's in a coma right now.
I just finished Marcus Luttrell's book Lone Survivor and, let me tell you, therein is plenty of food for thought when it comes to rules of engagement when your life is at stake.
Posted by: Pinandpuller at September 01, 2009 01:25 AM (aRm4V)
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Interesting that you mention the force continuum. As a matter of fact, it is on the way out in law enforcement instruction. The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center no long teaches the continuum after observation that it encourages officers to under-react in deadly force situations.
FLETC now teaches a use of overwhelming force when a suspect fails to cease dangerous behavior patterns in a confrontation.
That means any failure to comply with lawful instructions, e.g. show me your hands, results in a force reaction, not always use of firearms, but in a choice of various actions, strike, tazer, baton, pepperspray.
No longer being taught is repeated instructions. It is now one warning then force. Force that may include deadly force.
The reason is that video of real world situations show that officers are using to polite language and issuing repeated instructions that result in suspect attacks on officers.
In any event, your analysis of the Walmart shooting was lacking in that you took the stance that one of the invovled was wrong based on a lack of facts, then stated that previously either or both would have been arrested and confined for the duration of the investigation, which is not true, as police have to justify a probable cause arrest before a magistrate or judge, who in most cases, release such subjects on bail or recognizance.
Even before this new law, any suspect, unless they had a criminal record, would have been released anyway, especially on bail.
Posted by: Federale at September 01, 2009 01:21 PM (I6UoW)
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"Craig Schmidt shot Danny Lira in the face after Lira punched Schmidt, and Schmidt fell to the ground." I had a friend yearS ago who was "stomped" to death out back of a Bar, being punched in the face and falling to the ground can result in a fatal outcome
Posted by: Dan Kauffman at September 01, 2009 08:11 PM (5ZsaL)
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NC Supreme Court Issues Emergency Room Stimulus
Because what this world needs is more armed ex-cons:
The North Carolina Supreme Court says a 2004 law that bars convicted felons from having a gun, even within their own home or business, is unconstitutional.
The state's high court ruled Friday in the case of Barney Britt of Wake County that the General Assembly went too far five years ago when it toughened restrictions on felons owning guns as part of a broad anti-domestic-violence bill.
Update: Okay, I'm a dolt.
For whatever reason, I had it in my head that the Court was allowing violent ex-cons to own firearms, and I was not thinking about non-violent offenders. Sadly, the article doesn't do a good job in defining precisely what the court said.
If it turns out that the ruling affects non-violent offenders, I'll agree with those that state they have paid their debt to society. If it applies to violent offenders as well, I still have a problem with it.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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So folks found guilty of tax evasion should be denied their rights?
Posted by: Madrocketscientist at August 28, 2009 06:11 PM (FsbnY)
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I'm all for felons being able to get their rights restored. In most states, that involves serving your time and paying your penalties. You do the crime, you do the time. Then (most) all's fair.
But ALL felons? Wierd.
I'd imagine that something like this will get struck down by the SCOTUS, though. Didn't they explicitly state in the Heller case that there are some reasonable restrictions, like felons not having access to guns, that were reasonable?
Posted by: John at August 28, 2009 06:21 PM (iaV9O)
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John wrote: "I'd imagine that something like this will get struck down by the SCOTUS, though. Didn't they explicitly state in the Heller case that there are some reasonable restrictions, like felons not having access to guns, that were reasonable?"
And John is absolutely correct!
Makes me wonder if these judges ever read the news...or the judicial updates that come their way on a very regular basis. This one, in fact, raised many eyebrows throughout the land.
There's absolutely NO question this ruling will be overturned by SCOTUS, and don't be surprised if it's done "without comment". In other words, they'll be calling the NC judiciary a bunch of idiots.
Posted by: Dell at August 28, 2009 06:35 PM (NzENZ)
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Most cities and states are taking the position that Heller only applies to federal, not state or local, government. I'm guessing that's the reasoning here.
Posted by: jdb at August 28, 2009 07:47 PM (Dj4BX)
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My guess is this had nothing to do with Federal gun laws and perhaps not even the right to keep and bear arms and will not get anywhere near the SCOTUS.
See also my blog post on the topic.
Posted by: Joe Huffman at August 28, 2009 10:22 PM (aFOA0)
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Sorry, but the NC SC is correct. While a mildly convincing argument can be made that a felon on parole can be denied a weapon, such an argument falls logically flat after her sentence is up. The punishment is done, over. IF the right of self defense is absolutely fundamental (even more so than free speech), depriving someone of that right for life, especially if their crime had nothing to do with guns, is immoral.
Anytime someone attempts to circumscribe the right to self defense, simply apply the same argument to the right to free speech and see how it sounds.
Posted by: Bikerdad at August 29, 2009 05:29 AM (kIlGC)
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I'm with bikerdad. Once your sentence is completed (including parole and probation), it should take a jury trial to deprive you of your civil rights. The State should have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are not dangerous enough to be locked up but still dangerous enough to be a second class citizen. Tax fraud just doesn't make a man a murderer.
Respectfully,
Pol
Posted by: Pol Mordreth at August 29, 2009 11:21 AM (B91cc)
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So if these ex-felons are so dangerous that they allegedly can't be trusted with guns, then why should they be let loose to resume their predations as opposed to remaining locked up? I'm surprised at you, Mr. Owens. As pro-gun as you are this post sounds like something Paul Helmke would have nailed up on the Brady blog.
Posted by: the pistolero at August 29, 2009 11:22 AM (7PtU3)
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There's a point to the article being written vaguely. You are meant to imagine violent psychopaths roaming the streets with guns. Thus you will realize what nuts gun-rights advocates are "They're giving PSYCHOS the right to have guns too!" and resist their evil propaganda about some supposed "right to bear arms."
Posted by: Ersatz at August 30, 2009 04:58 AM (wsegj)
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But if these ex-cons (or any other NC resident) wants to actually obtain a handgun they are still required to obtain approval from their local sheriff prior to purchasing the weapon.
What if the Sheriff denies the request for approval?
What then, oh sages of the NC Supreme court?
Amazing, the Legislature has no ability pass law that specifically restricts a convicted felon's 2nd amendment rights, but they can pass law that cedes the entire issue to county sheriffs.
Posted by: ThomasD at September 01, 2009 09:59 AM (21H5U)
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ThomasD:
You missed a rather salient point here. This law was unconstitutional because it retroactively stripped away a civil right after it had been restored by a court. You cannot take away a mans civil rights without due process.
The individual in question who challenged the law had already legally purchased firearms during the period between when his civil rights were restored and the passage of this law, so I don't think your point really has legs.
Respectfully,
Pol
Posted by: Pol Mordreth at September 03, 2009 07:59 AM (K5CLb)
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Monster Kennedy Found Jokes About Kopechne's Drowning "One of His Favorite Topics of Humor"
Sick, Bloated, Evil.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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"Sick, Bloated, Evil and DEAD".
FIFY
Posted by: Dell at August 28, 2009 01:28 PM (NzENZ)
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It's what passes for self-deprecating humor among the Left.
How so? Well, because from their standpoint, the tragedy of Chappaquiddick is not that Mary Jo died due to Ted's drunken cowardice, but that the scandal prevented Ted from becoming President.
So as they see it, Ted's marvelous sense of humor would allow him to enjoy a good joke at his own expense... and oh yes, pity about the poor girl too.
Posted by: armadillo at August 28, 2009 01:59 PM (JuRWt)
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Kennedy didn't die at Chapp-a-QUIT IT!!!!
But he was affected for the rest of his life. It's a little-known fact that his near-drowning left him with a serious disability -- the inability to rid himself of flatus. That's right -- since August of 1969, the good Senator has been unable to fart.
He never overate or indulged in alcholic excess -- the progressive bloating we observed over the decades since "Splash" and his girlfriend drove northbound on an westbound bridge was due to accumulated flatulence.
Try as he might, and some of his speeches should have provided an excellent opportunity to expel the accumulated gas, he just couldn't decompress his tortured chitlins.
No doubt he will continue to be larger than life, even in death.
Posted by: Zeek at August 28, 2009 05:59 PM (J+5/6)
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Armadillo, the source of that story actually tried portraying it as an example of Teddy's self deprecating sense of humor.
But it's true that for leftiests the tragedy of Chappaquiddick was not the death of Mary Jo, but the inconvenience it put on Teddy. Oh, those poor Kennedys and that dread family curse!
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at August 28, 2009 07:29 PM (Vcyz0)
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I live in New England and can't even find a weather forecast on tv without hearing about the "tragedy" of a Great American dying. The young men who die or are maimed for life fighting for a country that doesnt seem to realize its at war is a tragedy. The death of a privileged elderly man who never did an honest days work in his life is far from it.
Posted by: Bill at August 29, 2009 06:00 PM (MOVNk)
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I have to agree with Bill. Everytime a rich person dies, whether it be a politician or musician or tv actor/actress, the news is just rammed down our throats, ad nauseum.
Thousands of young men and women are dying in a war which is hardly mentioned, but hardly any news about their death !
America used to be about the poor and the hungry. Now it's about how wealthy and phat and powerful a person is.
Posted by: Tonja at August 30, 2009 02:41 PM (dHuGF)
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If each newscast started with the fact that Kennedy had been kicked out of Harvard for cheating, I'm sure it never would have gotten to the "ad nauseum" stage.
Posted by: Neo at August 31, 2009 05:01 AM (tE8FB)
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The Real Roots of Astroturf
You'll never guess where it really resides.
Well, maybe you will. There is a reason professional protesters seem to be uniformly liberal.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I think the best like was "It's more democratic that way."
I actually laughed out loud at that.
Posted by: brando at August 28, 2009 08:28 PM (LjEkE)
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August 27, 2009
A Man’s Wal-Mart Is His Castle?
An employee fight at Wal-Mart that ended in a gunshot to the head challenges Montana's new law regarding the use of deadly force in self-defense.
At
Pajamas Media.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Bob are you applying for a position at MSNBC?
I'm pretty disappointed in you for the way you wrote that piece to try to sway the reader to your position.
"The .25-caliber bullet that ripped into the left side of Danny Lira’s forehead blew apart when it hit his skull, exiting in fragments."
Your graphic detail here is not intended to inform but rather to shock the reader and thus garner sympathy for Mr. Lira and your position.
"The man who shot him went free on the orders of the local district attorney."
This also is intended to shock and appall the reader, both the placement and wording are intended to produce a reaction of "OMG! They let the violent criminal go!". The attorney was following the law, and Mr. Schmidt is innocent of wrong doing until proven guilty. You obviously feel that shooting someone in self defense is wrong, at least that is the stance that comes across in the article.
At this point there is not enough information provided to make any kind of call. While I believe that no workplace incident should ever escalate to violence it does happen, and in some cases the victim can be severely injured and even killed. In this case to me who "the victim" is isn't clear, you seem to believe Mr. Lira was the victim.
Even if Mr. Schmidt "slammed his shoulder" into Mr. Lira as he passed by that is no real reason to take a swing at him since Mr. Lira's 100 lb advantage would have made the assault negligible, let it go and talk to a supervisor.
Your article implies that Mr. Schmidt intentionally shot Mr. Lira in the head, which may or may not be the case, and thus implies attempted murder rather than self-defense. If Schmidt had received a heavy blow to the face that knocked him down and in a rush to get his weapon drawn his aim would probably not be the best.
The report you link http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/article_291d01a4-8644-11de-9e73-001cc4c002e0.html also differs from your account as well. Lira outweighs Schmidt by 150 lbs, the shot was fired from 10 to 15 feet, and "the bullet grazed the side of his head from front to back." according to Police Sgt. Kevin Iffland. The other article you linked also states"Lira, 32, was in good condition at the hospital Thursday afternoon after being treated for a gunshot wound to his forehead. He has a slight bruise on his brain and facial lacerations from fragments of the bullet, which did not penetrate the skull, according to Dr. Eric Dringman, a St. Vincent surgeon." which differs from what you imply with your opening paragraph.
Mr. Owens you should be ashamed of yourself.
Posted by: Scott at August 27, 2009 12:19 PM (sQmd1)
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Scott, you twisted what I wrote into something you can gin up faux outrage over.
OMG, I used a flashy lede to draw the reader in! That's call "engaging the reader." It was also perfectly accurate. The you would assign some other meaning to it—claiming that is meant to give sympathy to Lira—is an artifice that exists entirely within your own mind.
That "The man who shot him went free on the orders of the local district attorney" means—and see if you can follow along here—the man who shot him went free on the orders of the local district attorney.. Again, you look into your crystal ball and conjure up some sinister alternative meaning out of thin air.
Likewise, the rest of your outrage is based upon your desire to create additional meaning from the text, and then find offense in what you've created. You hide this being trying to claim what I &qout;obviously meant" and what you think I implied... when I did not such thing.
As for the reports of what happened that day, again. I stated quite clearly there were very different accounts of what took place.
I suggest you find a hobby, other than trying to put words in other people's mouths and then getting mad about what you "hear."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 27, 2009 01:07 PM (gAi9Z)
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Mr. Owens:
Well said!!! The same sort of fantasies conjured up by Scott's dysfunctional crystal ball are something that I, too, am all too familiar with in response to some of my posts.
In fact, after reading his post I went back to your original article and read it again because I didn't remember you saying the things that Scott attributed to you. Turns out there was a good reason that I didn't remember them. They weren't there!
Scott's technique of putting "words in other people's mouths and then getting mad about what HE "hears" is a classic example of one type of "fallacy in argumentation".
Again, Mr. Owens, well said.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 01:25 PM (byA+E)
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Odd then how I wasn't the only one to get those impressions Mr. Owens. Many of the readers that commented on your article at Pajamas Media got the same impression I did.
Had you placed the "The man who shot him went free on the orders of the local district attorney." statement elsewhere framed by relevant information the connotations would have been different and you know it. However you placed it in one sentence all by itself for a "dun-dun-DUN!" effect. As writer you know there is both the explicit and implicit meaning as to how your words and sentences are put together.
Let me show you a different phrasing:
"Under Montana's House Bill 228 the man who shot Danny Lira is not currently charged with a crime and was allowed to go free on the orders of the district attorney. An investigation to determine if his use of force was unlawful will be conducted and charges will be filed if evidence indicates that was the case."
Same information, no "gasp!" factor.
Another place you use language to evoke a response:
"Craig Schmidt walks the streets of Billings a free man — at least for now — after shooting a man in the face over a work-related argument that escalated to gunplay."
You've already informed the reader twice of the location of Danny Lira's injury. Your third usage here is merely to emphasize the implication that a dangerous man walks free.
Yes it is a fact that Danny Lira got shot in the forehead, however your statement implies that Schmidt intentionally shot the man in the face. You have no evidence to support that his intent was to put a bullet in the other man's head. Again let me show you a version with less spin.
"Craig Schmidt is a a free man pending an investigation to determine if he used unlawful force after shooting a co-worker in a workplace argument that escalated to gunplay."
Same information less "fear factor".
Also I have to really laugh at your use of "outrage". I'm in no way "outraged", disappointed in someone who usually writes good articles yes, outraged no. I merely criticize what I and others perceive as "spin" to evoke an emotional reaction.
You seem to be the outraged one sir, outraged that one of "the masses" would dare critique and criticize something you wrote. Perhaps the MSM is rubbing off on you and its time for some self reflection. The fact that Dude agrees with you should be indication enough.
Posted by: Scott at August 27, 2009 02:19 PM (sQmd1)
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"The fact that Dude agrees with you should be indication enough."
Another example of fallacy: If so and so agrees with you, that's an indication that you must be wrong.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 04:00 PM (byA+E)
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So linked.
Given that I've been the smaller person in several violent inter-personal disputes, not a lot of sympathy with a guy whining about not being able to throw someone in jail until they're proven innocent....
Posted by: Foxfier at August 27, 2009 07:02 PM (hyXnK)
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"The fact that Dude agrees with you should be indication enough."
Hahaha. It's a pretty good indicator. He's a good barometer for wrongness. Don't hold that against CY. CY didn't agree with Dude; it was the other way around.
On this particular article, CY was a bit sensational and leading, but I don't think that's super-wrong.
I know that CY is a big gun-rights guy, and maybe it's just a case of policing your own. He's often harder on gun incidents that I would be, maybe because he's more closely connected with it.
Posted by: brando at August 27, 2009 07:11 PM (LjEkE)
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"The fact that Dude agrees with you should be indication enough."
"Hahaha. It's a pretty good indicator. He's a good barometer for wrongness."
Thanks Brando. Coming from you, I consider that to be a compliment, even if it is subjective. Of course, in your bubble, there's not much room for objectivity.
I would fully expect you to support someone who attributes words to people that they didn't say. That is, after all, one aspect of your typical MO; dishonesty, as evidenced in many of your past posts.
Thanks again for the compliment.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 08:37 PM (byA+E)
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You think it's a compliment that your lack of integrity makes others doubt your claims?
Um.
Sadly, you probably do think that's a compliment.
Posted by: brando at August 27, 2009 10:29 PM (LjEkE)
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No, it ain't my integrity that's in question here, Brando. It's yours. I don't have a reputation of attributing statements to others which they have not made. On the other hand, you have a clear record of that practice. All that one needs to do to verify that is to read several past threads here at this forum.
You can deny it all that you wish. We've been through this before. The proof is in the pudding.
So, yes, when you, of all people, make such false claims that I'm a "good barometer for wrongness.", though you don't intend it to be, that's a compliment to me.
It's one thing to disagree with other people on issues. That's fine. It's another thing entirely to "bear false witness", which is what you seem to make a habit of doing. The real kicker is that when someone calls your hand on it, you pretend to be a nice guy and give them an opportunity to apologize to you for pointing out the obvious: your lack of integrity.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 11:08 PM (byA+E)
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I have to admit, I really thought I was reading an article on a left leaning blog this time. It was a far cry from the normal factual and informative posts I have come to expect from you.
Posted by: Tuf Gut at August 28, 2009 09:13 AM (XKpp2)
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I've listened to people talk about Stand-your-ground laws, or Castle laws IRL, and given the intensity and ignorance that people displayed, I've come away with the impression that they actually enjoy it when murderers and rapists get their way.
At any rate, has anyone read or heard about the .25cal pistol being refered to as an "assault weapon", or "machine gun"?
Or rail gun?
Posted by: brando at August 28, 2009 09:23 AM (IPGju)
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Bob, what I took away from your PJM article was a guy who shot somebody in a workplace dispute was walking around free. And in your article it seemed that there was some outrage on the writer's part that not only was this obviously dangerous individual scot free but walking amongst the vulnerable public. Look at the last sentence in your article, "Somehow, I don't think that is the kind of outcome the Montana legislature had in mind". I'm sorry, but I think that is EXACTLY what the legislature had in mind. You know, that part of our legal system referred to as presumption of innocence. Am I wrong, or isn't that what we're talking about?
Your response seems to indicate that this was not your intended message. I find that your comment to Scott about "putting words in other people's mouths" rather interesting. The point of the article was indeed to convey an idea or information. That the message was garbled or the translation incomplete shouldn't be something to get "snippy" about. Communication requires feedback to work. You just got some feedback.
And Dude, Sir, every blog seems to have one resident "contrarian" and you must admit that you have taken up that mantle quite handily. The fact that you are a "barometer" actually crossed my mind too as I read your post. This is not a compliment or an insult as I've known a few good commanders who used a variation of the "dedicated contrarian" concept in his staff.
I hope I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth.
Regards
Posted by: Barney at August 28, 2009 12:42 PM (3UOyd)
14
Bob
Any more news on this situation? I am curious to hear of further facts.
Posted by: iconoclast at August 28, 2009 02:15 PM (O8ebz)
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August 26, 2009
Too Soon?
From a buddy on my high school football team, via Facebook:
So the Dems want to change the current bill to the Ted Kennedy Memorial Bill.
Does that mean they are going to do what he did with Mary Jo Kopechne?...Do nothing and watch it die??
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:18 PM
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Posted by: Picric at August 26, 2009 03:28 PM (oKOn9)
2
I don't care if they name it Jesus Christ Health Care, it's STILL bad legislation.
Posted by: Dell at August 26, 2009 04:15 PM (NzENZ)
3
The only difference is that this legislation is not an innocent victim- and it would be justice for it to die young.
Posted by: Ken R at August 26, 2009 07:33 PM (i5V4J)
4
Clean up on aisle 1! A moby made a horrible mess!
Posted by: Rob Crawford at August 26, 2009 09:20 PM (n2wxa)
5
They really should let the man rest in peace, but it appears they want to keep him working, even in the great beyond:
http://viewfromarockingchair.blogspot.com/2009/08/no-teddy-care.html
Posted by: Kathy at August 27, 2009 08:22 AM (WyF1i)
6
Why call it something complicated like the "Ted Kennedy Health Care Bill" when something simple like "Lying Liberal, Kopechne Killing, Son of an Irish Bootlegger, Screw the Hard Working Tax Paying American, Pay Off the Union Leaders, Give it all Away to the Hind Tit Sucking Entitled Americans and Illegal Aliens Health Care Bill?"
Posted by: Paul at August 27, 2009 08:55 AM (af73g)
7
Paul, your suggestion of a title is factual in every way.
Posted by: Rick at August 27, 2009 07:18 PM (FWmwx)
8
"Never let a good crisis [or celebrity death] go to waste."
Posted by: SouthernRoots at August 28, 2009 01:40 AM (FJRFk)
9
Sorry, Paul, it'll never fly. Any bill with a title longer than three words has to make a spiffy acronym.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at August 28, 2009 01:49 AM (Vcyz0)
Posted by: John Ruberry at August 29, 2009 05:37 PM (gdglZ)
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What They Won't Mention About Ted Kennedy: Treason
I don't like to use the word "treason." It is tossed around so casually these days by overly-inflamed people on both sides, and as a result, its use as an epithet has lost much of its sting.
I regret this today because it make sit that much harder to communicate the great disservice Edward Kennedy do to this nation years ago, as he conspired with our country's greatest enemy in an
attempt to undermine a sitting President.
A third Kennedy boy who made it to the U.S. Senate and had his eyes on the presidency was Ted, who was politically to the left of his brothers, especially with regard to the Cold War and the Soviet threat.
Once Reagan was President, he found himself at odds with the latest Sen. Kennedy. Reagan ideas such as deploying intermediate-range nuclear forces (INFs) in Western Europe and the Strategic Defense Initiative infuriated Ted Kennedy, who, according to a highly sensitive KGB document discovered by reporter Tim Sebastian of the London Times (which ran an article on the document Feb. 2, 1992), was motivated to do something quite unusual:
On May 14, 1983, KGB head Viktor Chebrikov sent a message of "Special Importance" with the highest classification to General Secretary Yuri Andropov. The subject head to the letter read: "Regarding Senator Kennedy's request to the General Secretary of the Communist Party Y. V. Andropov." According to Chebrikov, Sen. Kennedy was "very troubled" by the state of U.S.-Soviet relations. Kennedy believed that the main reason for the dangerous situation was "Reagan's belligerence" and particularly his INF plan. "According to Kennedy," reported Chebrikov, "the current threat is due to the President's refusal to engage any modification to his politics."
The fourth and fifth paragraphs of Chebrikov's memo held out hope that Reagan's 1984 re-election bid could be thwarted. But where was the President vulnerable? Chebrikov stated that Kennedy had provided a possible answer. "The only real threats to Reagan are problems of war and peace and Soviet-American relations," wrote Chebrikov. "These issues, according to the senator [Kennedy], will without a doubt become the most important of the election campaign." According to Chebrikov, Kennedy lamented that Reagan was good at "propaganda," whereas statements from Soviet officials were quoted "out of context" or "whimsically discounted."
Soviet PR Campaign
Chebrikov then relayed Kennedy's alleged offer to Andropov: "Kennedy believes that, given the state of current affairs and in the interest of peace, it would be prudent and timely to undertake the following steps to counter the militaristic politics of Reagan." The first step, according to the document, was a recommendation by Kennedy that Andropov invite him to Moscow for a personal meeting. Chebrikov reported: "The main purpose of the meeting, according to the senator, would be to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they would be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA."
Second, wrote the KGB head, "Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize in August-September of this year [1983], televised interviews with Y. V. Andropov in the USA." He said the Massachusetts senator had suggested a "direct appeal" by Andropov to the American people. "Kennedy and his friends," wrote Chebrikov, would hook up Andropov with television reporters such as Walter Cronkite and Barbara Walters. Chebrikov said that Kennedy had suggested arranging interviews not merely for Andropov but also for "lower-level Soviet officials, particularly from the military," who "would also have an opportunity to appeal directly to the American people about the peaceful intentions of the U.S.S.R."
In essence, Chebrikov reported that Kennedy offered to help organize a Soviet PR campaign, which would "root out the threat of nuclear war" and "improve Soviet-American relations" (and also hurt Reagan's 1984 re-election prospects). "Kennedy is very impressed with the activities of Y. V. Andropov and other Soviet leaders," explained Chebrikov.
The tale is not new, but people will try to forget or gloss over Kennedy's faults and crimes as character flaws or some other trivial, forgettable, and forgivable offense. But Ted Kennedy is not a great man with easily dismissed faults. He did this country a great wrong, conspiring with an enemy against our President.
Sadly the media and politicians will try to lionize him in his passing, never being honest enough to admit that despite some of the good things he accomplished while in office, he was in word and deed often no better than a jackal.
8/27 Update: Forbes decides to
cover the same ground.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:15 AM
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1
Ted Kennedy was also a supporter of Terrorism (the IRA in Ireland). So-called freedom fighters using improvised explosive devices to kill civilians and soldiers. Sound familiar?
Posted by: Dave at August 26, 2009 12:25 PM (ocFg6)
2
For now, just be glad that American and the world are notably safer than they were yesterday. There will be plenty of time for retrospectives later. The most important thing is that the Left does not somehow Weldstone this and pass Obamacare as a monument to Teddy, fitting though that might be.
Posted by: Tregonsee at August 26, 2009 12:28 PM (nbLkT)
3
When health insurance reform finally comes to America, as it surely will eventually, you can be sure that Senator Kennedy will be honored as an ardent and long standing proponent.
Posted by: Dude at August 26, 2009 01:33 PM (byA+E)
4
Here's a little MSM piece from ABC News on Kennedy's indiscretions:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8212665
Granted, it's only 4 pages long. I suppose that proves without a doubt the left leaning bias of the MSM.
Posted by: Dude at August 26, 2009 03:46 PM (byA+E)
5
Since adulter Newt Ginrich isn't dead we won't have a report about his indiscresions, nor Rudy 9-11 Guiliani's nor Senator's Ensign, Vitter etc. The original "Chebrikov memo" is 'conveniently' locked away in an old Soviet archive, safe from the prying eyes of the liberal msm.
The other letter allegedly written by Kennedy and delivered to Leonid Brezhnev in 1979 would be interesting document, if in fact it actually existed; shockingly, however, it does not appear in the Mitrokhin Archive itself, nor does Mitrokhin himself discuss it in hisbook, The Sword and the Shield
Posted by: Joe the reporter at August 26, 2009 05:36 PM (grH7t)
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Yeah, dude, it would have been nice if those obumble crotch-suckers had managed to write about the little peccadilloes of that murderous, treasonous, drunken, whore-dog while he was alive.
And Joe, you could probably add up total conquests of all the womanizing repubs together and that number wouldn't come close to the number reached by ANY of the brothers Kennedy.
Oh, and you will excuse me if I point out that there was probably a great deal of information in those files that Mitrokhin didn't cover.
Posted by: emdefl at August 26, 2009 07:54 PM (Mkonf)
7
The larger, more important, and impactful treason that Kennedy committed was his 1965 immigration reform which drastically damaged and changed America although it took decades to infiltrate our formerly cohesive society, and the full effects are yet to come, but have exploded on scene after scene of the new Americana.
Posted by: Jayne at August 27, 2009 12:37 AM (dwIL0)
8
And Joe, you could probably add up total conquests of all the womanizing repubs together and that number wouldn't come close to the number reached by ANY of the brothers Kennedy.
What if you add in all the Republicans that like boys?
Posted by: Mike at August 27, 2009 01:13 AM (HADQ4)
9
All the Republicans "that like boys" have not had nearly as much boy sex as Barney Frank.
Posted by: Steve at August 27, 2009 08:06 AM (pBMo9)
10
The larger, more important, and impactful treason that Kennedy committed was his 1965 immigration reform which drastically damaged and changed America although it took decades to infiltrate our formerly cohesive society, and the full effects are yet to come, but have exploded on scene after scene of the new Americana.
Yes mam, I can remember how cohesive our society was back in those days before immigration reform ruined it all. It was wonderful and everyone got along just fine, as long as certain folks knew to stay in their place. Then, Ted Kennedy and others had to go sticking their noses where they didn't belong. Shame on them!
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 08:37 AM (byA+E)
11
If it's treason to "Undermine a sitting President", isn't it about time to tell the Birthers to stop committing treason with their crazy-talk that _President_ Barack Hussein Obama is some kind of foreign-born Muslimchurian agent?
Posted by: Consumer Unit 5012 at August 27, 2009 11:42 AM (blHvF)
12
So-called freedom fighters using improvised explosive devices to kill civilians and soldiers. Sound familiar?
Why, yes, it does. Reagan sold a bunch them millions of dollars worth of weapons. Illegally. In exchange for American hostages. And he started the program by subverting the elected government of the United States.
Posted by: NotAnExpert at August 27, 2009 06:26 PM (IRC/t)
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@treegonsee:
You must have worked hard to formulate a statement so completely devoid of intelligence. The world is notably safer today? That's just dumb.
Posted by: teh mann at August 27, 2009 07:26 PM (6cKkZ)
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There is no way in hell that this traitor should be buried in Arlington. His older brothers, yes, both heros but neither he nor Robert should be there.
Posted by: tjbbpgobIII at August 27, 2009 08:07 PM (8kQ8M)
15
There is no way in hell that this traitor should be buried in Arlington. His older brothers, yes, both heros but neither he nor Robert should be there.
Perhaps you should write a letter to your Congressman and Senators, explaining in detail and at great length your displeasure of Senator Kennedy's burial in Arlington. Surely, they will give your letter appropriate consideration.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 08:47 PM (byA+E)
16
Yes that's right, grasshopper Dude. The U.S. immigration policy since the 1920's was designed to maintain the proportion of ancestry in the population. Blacks needed fuller integration into the middle and upper classes which if we had adhered to the MLK method of increased awareness and peaceful protest the races would find common ground, the good people (the majority) of America would continue to encourage and welcome black achievement and slowly but surely change and full integration would come about. The way it turned out was due to Democrats realizing that if they made themselves champions of the poor victims of a perpetually unjust society they could ensure a power base from which to get elected so in addition to keeping blacks on their plantation, Teddy rewrote immigration law and a virtual flood of people from various parts of the globe descended on America only to be swept up in the Democrats net of "you can't make it without us, here's where and how to vote". Now we have the spectacle of just last November seeing the New Black Panthers standing outside a polling place with billy clubs and the current administration refusing to prosecute the obvious voter intimidation. We also have blacks voting 90% Democrat. In addition we have had millions of immigrants driving down wages and carving out their own little victimology niche and the balkanization of America. We were much more cohesive prior to the radicals taking over in the mid 60's.
Posted by: Jayne at August 28, 2009 12:04 AM (dwIL0)
17
Jayne, Can you provide us with some concrete examples of how our society was "much more cohesive prior to the radicals taking over in the mid 60's."?
Posted by: Dude at August 28, 2009 07:58 PM (byA+E)
18
"teh mann"
It requires little effort, other than basic knowledge and judgment which do require effort, to state the simple truth. When Teddy's life, both personal and professional, is examined, the harm far outweighs the good. Ranging from immigration, to his part in the end of the VietNam War and the resulting megadeaths, to the the end of the Cold War, to the most basic national defense, he was consistently on the wrong side. Every time. With his consistently pernicious influence ended, the world is significantly safer, though no doubt others will try to fill his shoes. So please, think before you post.
Treg
Posted by: Tregonsee at August 29, 2009 11:53 AM (nbLkT)
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Obese Womanizing Drunk Who Killed Young Woman in Alcohol-Related Accident Decades Ago And Who Spent His Career Increasing the Federal Deficit, Finally Dies
Ted Kennedy is dead. I will not miss him.
Ted Kennedy wanted more and bigger government, because he did not believe in nor understand the true genius of America.
Ted Kennedy wanted to force Americans to have gun control, even as he used his family's illegally-acquired fortune to hire armed bodyguards.
Ted Kennedy wanted to force us into socialized healthcare, even though he would have died long ago under the kind of healthcare rationing he wanted to force on the rest of us.
Ted Kennedy wanted to force us to use expensive alternative energy sources, even as he shot down plans for a wind farm that would have spoiled his beachfront views.
Ted Kennedy is dead, at long last.
He will not be missed here.
Update: And I almost forgot... he was a
treasonous son-of-a-bitch as well, conspiring with the Soviet KGB during the Cold War in an attempt to undermine President Reagan for his own political gain.
That merits it
own post.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:10 AM
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1
I will be listening carefully for any reference of his having been kicked out of Harvard for cheating on a Spanish exam. I do not expect to hear it mentioned.
Posted by: Tregonsee at August 26, 2009 07:37 AM (nbLkT)
2
"Ted Kennedy wanted more and bigger government, because he did not believe in nor understand the true genius of America"
Probably because he was born into massive wealth, never experienced the need to meet a payroll or worry about earning enough to make ends meet. He had his wealth and could care less about increasing taxes on those that also wanted to live the good life.
CY, you neglected to mention he left the scene of that fatal accident.
Posted by: Rick at August 26, 2009 07:50 AM (FWmwx)
3
Ah yes, "the dream shall never die."
Sorry, Teddy Boy, it just did. And, given current federal deficit trends, Obama will be forced to bury it.
Posted by: MarkJ at August 26, 2009 08:06 AM (FZ1EI)
4
A very restrained and tasteful response on your part.
Posted by: Joe at August 26, 2009 08:11 AM (0Gde6)
5
Can I be the first to say that Mary Jo was not available for comment?
Posted by: emdfl at August 26, 2009 08:23 AM (blNMI)
6
Teddy would not have suffered at all under the socialized medicine he so longed to inflict upon his less fortunate fellow citizens. In every totalitarian state there is a special, protected class. The Soviets called their the nomenklatura.
Those people get the best of everything, not available to the proles. Teddy would never has whiled away the hours waiting in a government health center, to be told his condition was not covered or scarce resources dictated against one of his age getting treatment. For him, it would have been the best Swiss clinics, or wherever good, expensive medicine would be provided to those able to pay, and deemed worthy.
But nonetheless, stand by for impassioned arguments that if only we'd had national health care, Teddy'd still be alive. He'd probably be playing tennis with Christopher Reeves.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at August 26, 2009 08:44 AM (Vcyz0)
7
I did not despise Kennedy for being a leftist. no, being a hypocrite claiming to be Catholic while simultaneously supporting unfettered access to abortion, and using his privilege to escape a homicide charge was all that was necessary.
The world is better off without him.
Posted by: ThomasD at August 26, 2009 09:48 AM (21H5U)
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Although I don’t think we could have disagreed more on points of politics and character, I pray that God gives his family the strength to make it through their time of grief and tribulation…
Anyway, I’m sure it’s better than the family watching him suffer any longer. But, as you noted, the nation will have to suffer a bit more as his life will be celebrated in a Wellstonian fashion by the MSM…
And, I wouldn’t put it past O!&Co to try and capitalize on this, implorting people and legislators to vote for Obamacare, “because Teddy would have wanted it that way…”
After all, one should never let a crisis go to waste…
RIP Ted Kennedy
Posted by: Bob Reed at August 26, 2009 09:50 AM (cslgb)
9
It's not really my nature to speak ill of the deceased - but in Ted Kennedy's case I could make an exception.
Leave it at: good riddance.
Posted by: Charles at August 26, 2009 09:52 AM (dhZ8D)
10
One less murderer in the Democrat party.
Posted by: iconoclast at August 26, 2009 10:51 AM (O8ebz)
11
Like all humans, Senator Kennedy had his faults and shortcomings. Nevertheless, he'll be remembered in history as having been a champion for the poor and the everyday average Joe.
Furthermore, he was regarded by Republican senators as the most effective and bipartisan senator on Capitol Hill. While being a hardcore liberal, he knew how to forge alliances with the opposition party to get results by compromise.
In spite of his personal faults, he was the consumate politician and statesman. Though you may not miss him, millions of everyday Americans as well as his Senate colleagues on both sides of the political aisle WILL miss him. I thank him for his service to our nation.
Posted by: Dude at August 26, 2009 11:01 AM (byA+E)
12
Just think if Kennedy would have contacted the Japanese in 1942 to try and hurt Franklin Roosevelt. He would have been executed on the Senate floor for treason, possibly by Roosevelt himself.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at August 26, 2009 11:02 AM (MxQFN)
13
Yeah, Uncle Teddy was a real Peach. Yeesh!
Posted by: benning at August 26, 2009 11:08 AM (XH85T)
Posted by: federale86 at August 26, 2009 11:11 AM (thedx)
15
Good riddance. Too bad Mary Jo didn't swim to safety and leave that worthless POS to suck air from a bubble for an hour or two.
Posted by: George Bruce at August 26, 2009 11:23 AM (iWnZc)
16
Another noteworthy fact about Senator Kennedy: After being elected in a special election to fill the vacant Massachusetts senate seat, after the election of his brother, JFK, to the Presidency, the citizens of Massachusetts proceeded to easily re-elect him eight times. The closest margin of victory in his Senate career was when he defeated Mitt Romney with 58% of the vote, in 1994.
Say what you will about the man. He obviously represented the majority of the citizens of his home state.
Let's also not forget the very important role that Senator Kennedy played in making sure that our soldiers in Iraq are better protected with "armored" Humvees. He lobbied hard to get this passed when many in Congress seemed to think that the lives of our young men and women in the armed forces didn't justify the additional costs of the armor.
According to the dad of Private First Class John Hart, who died in an unarmored Humvee: “Hundreds if not thousands of men and women are alive today because of his actions.”
Credit where credit is due.
Posted by: Dude at August 26, 2009 01:25 PM (byA+E)
17
Happy trails, "Splash".
I'll see you in Hell.
Posted by: Jim at August 26, 2009 02:32 PM (pG3L6)
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@Dude
don't expect any credit where credit is due. In these people's eyes 1 > 100 or 1000, if the 1 is MJK.
Posted by: blackfrancis at August 26, 2009 02:49 PM (NLG5q)
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Rather intemperate even if true.
Posted by: Mason at August 26, 2009 02:59 PM (LbjxU)
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Massachusettes, the birthplace of our liberty, took a wrong turn ithe 1840's and has been a thorn in the side of freedom ever since. Maybe it's now at an end.
Posted by: TRADER RICK at August 26, 2009 03:41 PM (rto3A)
21
"Let's also not forget the very important role that Senator Kennedy played in making sure that our soldiers in Iraq are better protected with "armored" Humvees. He lobbied hard to get this passed"
That's a flat out lie. Kennedy would smile wide at each and every American soldier's death in Iraq. He would trumpet every "grim milestone" of 1,000 deaths, 2,000 deaths, 3,000 deaths, etc...There is a very special place in hell for people who use our soldiers deaths for personal political gain.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at August 26, 2009 05:20 PM (MxQFN)
22
....There is a very special place in hell for people who use our soldiers deaths for personal political gain. Capitalist Infidel at 05:20 PM
There should be a special place in hell for scum like Bush who sent med to die for nothing and for his fascist apologists who cheered. You are all vile contemptible weasels.
Posted by: Mike at August 26, 2009 06:53 PM (rDnWL)
23
Question: What preceded Ted Kennedy sad, pathetic death?
Answer: His sad, pathetic life.
Posted by: Michael from SC at August 26, 2009 06:59 PM (vZgu4)
24
Ted, Glad to see you. Its been a while. Want some scotch? Why, sure, I'll take a ride with you at 12:45 am to f*** like monkeys. Hell, your a Kennedy. Your inheritance is alcoholism, narcissism, rum running, womanizing, cheating, murdering, raping. Hope you can make the climb. Seems awful far from here.
Your friend,
Mary Jo
Posted by: Mary Jo Kopechne at August 26, 2009 07:06 PM (vZgu4)
25
Kennedy may have been driving drunk and his reckless driving clearly led to the death of a young woman. This was a terrible thing for Kennedy to have done.
But what is a much more terrible thing is what Kennedy did after that. He spent most of the next forty years trying to do things to improve the lives of other people. He had a particular penchant for trying to help people who were not able to make considerable campaign contributions.
The event from 1969 clearly should have precluded Kennedy from making any effort to become a better person over his next forty years or to do any good. His actions from 1969 should have prevented him from holding any job, or attempting to do favors for any people. He should have been legally required to not do anything good with his live or be nice to any people.
I am disgusted that such a man was ever allowed to do so much good in the world after he had obviously done wrong. I have heard of some freakish religions that concern themselves with redemption, forgiveness, and helping the poor. Obviously, such crazy notions have not crept into any Western religions.
Kennedy's life is a very important lesson that we are reminded of far too infrequently: If you do something wrong in your life, the actions you take from that point forward over the rest of your life are completely irrelevant to who you are.
Posted by: flarbuse at August 26, 2009 07:39 PM (gDAOv)
26
flarbuse, you mean later events such as creating "borking?" Or the various other scurrilous political attacks he's made that would be grounds for libel and slander outside of the protected world of the Senate?
Do the poor he's helped included the millions that died of abortions in the decades he has been an advocate for this most disturbing form of genocide? Or are you referring to the tens or hundreds of millions of people that he didn't think deserved liberty in Vietnam, Iraq, and behind the Iron Curtain? His brothers fought totalitarianism; Ted the drunkard embraced it.
There is no doubt Ted Kennedy some good acts in his life.
There is also no doubt those acts were far outweighed by the evil he furthered or ignored during his time on Earth.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 26, 2009 07:48 PM (WjpSC)
27
"That's a flat out lie. Kennedy would smile wide at each and every American soldier's death in Iraq. He would trumpet every "grim milestone" of 1,000 deaths, 2,000 deaths, 3,000 deaths, etc...There is a very special place in hell for people who use our soldiers deaths for personal political gain."
No, it's not a lie that he played an important role in armoring the Humvees. If you think it's a like, you're blinded to the truth by your hatred of the man. And, if you think it's a lie, you should say that to Private First Class John Hart's dad.
To say that he,.. "would smile wide at each and every American soldier's death in Iraq"....goes beyond the pale of political differences. You're a very sick person Capitalist Infidel. Very sick.
Posted by: Dude at August 26, 2009 08:27 PM (byA+E)
28
I have no problem with his,or any one else's opposition to to the immoral and unjust wars in either Southeast Asia or in Iraq.
As far as the "the poor he's helped included the millions that died of abortions" goes, since when did fetuses get checking accounts?
Posted by: flarbuse at August 26, 2009 08:46 PM (gDAOv)
29
Yes Kennedy did make a mistake in 1969. We all make mistakes and should forgive him. But most of the people I know including myself do not leave an innocent women to suffocate in his own sunken car and then not tell anyone about it. How about the mistake in December 1985 where he grabbed a waitress at Washington’s La Brasserie restaurant, picked her up from the table and threw her into the lap of friend Sen. Chris Dodd to make a sandwich. I know innocent mistake. How about constantly cheating on his first wife and then September 1987 screwed his blonde girlfriend on the floor of La Brasserie. Or May 14, 1983 working with the head of the KGB, Viktor Chebrikov to screw over Reagan and the American poeple. I know, another mistake that we should look past. Hey Dude and Flarbuse, if you call the Pope he may consider dear old Ted for canonization, it is worth a shot.
Posted by: willie at August 26, 2009 09:40 PM (g0Rt9)
30
good riddance, if I still cared to fly an American flag it would be at full mast - buck farack
Posted by: Jayne at August 27, 2009 12:39 AM (dwIL0)
31
Images of Mary Jo waterboarding Ted till he admits he left her to die...funny don't you think Jeebs
Posted by: Jayne at August 27, 2009 01:13 AM (dwIL0)
32
"Images of Mary Jo waterboarding Ted till he admits he left her to die...funny don't you think Jeebs"
Funny if you're a humorless, willfully ignorant conservative.
Posted by: flarbuse at August 27, 2009 01:17 AM (gDAOv)
33
Kennedy must have had some serious issues as a young man. Kicked out of Harvard in 1951, then serves 2 full years in the US Army and remained a private all that time. From my Army experience only a true dud would remain a private a full 2 years.
Posted by: Rick at August 27, 2009 11:03 AM (FWmwx)
34
Rick,
You're probably right about Senator Kennedy having serious issues in his youth, and even past his youth.
Nevertheless, he will be remembered in history by far more for his accomplishments and his service to our nation than for his faults as a mere human being.
He certainly made his share of mistakes, as we all do. When all is said and done his legacy will be that of a man who did his very best to help as many people as he could. It's called redemption.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 01:37 PM (byA+E)
35
Yeah, gee Rick, what a dud.
He couldn't even have daddy pull some strings so he could hide out in 'Bama protecting Atlanta from Charlie.
Posted by: flarbuse at August 27, 2009 02:07 PM (gDAOv)
36
Dude, I agree he was great at taking money from those that made it to give to those that did not, but that was with our money. I bet he has that estate structured in such a way that it escapes the Federal Estate Tax and everything will be bequeathed to his decendents.
Posted by: Rick at August 27, 2009 02:26 PM (FWmwx)
37
I bet he did have that estate structured as you've described. If he had any sense he had it properly structured. That's what wealthy people do.
In fact, I bet that was taken care of decades ago, way back in his dad's day.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 03:57 PM (byA+E)
38
Dude, presently the Unified Tax Credit is 3.5 mill and with his wealth the only way he can escape the Federal Estate Tax is by violating the law, or some type of sham charity trust.
Posted by: Rick at August 27, 2009 04:08 PM (FWmwx)
39
Dude, I guess his estate might be grandfathered in some kind of family trust his dad formed years back that escapes the dreaded death tax. My point to you is that he was good at giving away the money of others, but was he good at giving away his own? In addition, if his wealth is structured in such a way that no federal death tax is due, then he was a hypocrite of the first class in fighting every attempt to reduce the Federal Estate (Death) Tax knowing it would not appy to him.
Posted by: Rick at August 27, 2009 04:24 PM (FWmwx)
40
"Dude, I agree he was great at taking money from those that made it to give to those that did not, but that was with our money."
Yeah Ricky.
How dare he "take away" money that you or John McCain or Paris Hilton could have spent on your fourth vacation home, and waste it on school lunches or vaccines?
Why, if you're rich in America, you're actually poor.
Someone hand Little Ricky a tissue.
Posted by: flarbuse at August 27, 2009 06:01 PM (gDAOv)
41
It's as though your're trying to be TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS!!! only ending up regurgitating boring insults.
The way to do it is to use the Kennedy coverage to passive-aggressively advance a preexisting agenda. Such as complaining about media bias or health insurance reform.
Posted by: David B. at August 27, 2009 06:17 PM (nWYwS)
42
excuse is that fartbuse or flarbuse?
Posted by: JosephineSouthern at August 27, 2009 06:51 PM (AKl3/)
43
You know, today on what else Fox a guest reported how really bad he was dureing his marriage and after his divorce - really really bad. His wife now is 25 years younger than him and laid the law down before she would marry him.
We don't need another Lincoln cult please! Do not for get the Kennedy's badness and just extol how great he was.
Posted by: JosephineSouthern at August 27, 2009 06:57 PM (AKl3/)
44
Josephine, my dear, don't you worry your sweet little self, bless your heart. You have nothing to worry about. Plenty of folks will continue to dwell on Senator Kennedy's "badness". In fact, they will be obsessed with it to the point that they won't see any of his "goodness".
Rick, according to several articles that I've read, yes, he was good at giving away his own money to help people. It wasn't something that he bragged about. People whom he has helped, with his own money, are talking quite a bit during these past few days. Check out some of the news on the dreaded MSM. You might learn something.
Do you actually believe that wealthy conservatives don't take advantage of every legal loophole in the tax code to avoid the estate tax. People with REAL money, regardless of their politics, pay people good money to avoid that. It just IS.
Posted by: Dude at August 27, 2009 07:17 PM (byA+E)
45
>>"But what is a much more terrible thing is what Kennedy did after that. He spent most of the next forty years trying to do things to improve the lives of other people. He had a particular penchant for trying to help people who were not able to make considerable campaign contributions."
Ha, ha, ha!
Good, we need a little humor around here. Keep up the good work, that is excellent parody.
Posted by: Steve at August 27, 2009 11:23 PM (T+lnK)
46
>>"Do you actually believe that wealthy conservatives don't take advantage of every legal loophole in the tax code to avoid the estate tax."
The point you keep missing, dood, is that "wealthy conservatives" don't think that anybody should be paying the estate tax, or high taxes in general. While people like Ted Kennedy DO claim to believe that the rich have the obligagation to pay though the nose.
I've noticed that people on the left have zero sensitivity for hypocrisy when it's people on the left being outrageous hypocrites. Funny how that works. Funny how Teddy could get away with being exactly the sort of corrupt plutocrat the left pretends to hate.
Posted by: Steve at August 27, 2009 11:31 PM (T+lnK)
47
>>"The event from 1969 clearly should have precluded Kennedy from making any effort to become a better person over his next forty years"
Whether it should have so precluded him from such an effort is an open question. What is certain is that he spent the next forty years behaving as exactly the same sort of contemptible and dishonest pig he had revealed himself to be at Chappaquiddick.
Posted by: Steve at August 27, 2009 11:38 PM (T+lnK)
48
Dude, you miss my point, but that's OK.
You clearly are not familiar with the Federal Estate Tax, and I'm not going to take the time and explain it to you.
Posted by: Rick at August 28, 2009 11:33 AM (GBgQW)
49
This thread is really kind of pathetic. All of the name calling and juvenile antics isn't becoming for public debate. Ted Kennedy was one of the worst U.S. Senators in history, and I don't need to call him names or hate him in order to say that. The things he stood for have done lasting and perhaps irreparable harm to our nation, have institutionalized poverty (making a new and reliable constituency for the Democratic party while driving the nation into massive debt, have led to the slaughter of millions of innocent unborn children in the wombs of their mothers, all while he used the venerable name "Catholic" as a shield. I find his actions so horrendous, so in violation of the Constitution, so morally reprehensible, that any further calling of names would be to pile on and kick a dead horse, quite literally. He is dead, and he is not yet in the ground, so this is the charitable version. Let history sort the rest out.
Posted by: James at August 28, 2009 06:03 PM (Yb/pl)
50
Ted,
Looks like you still are having trouble with the climb. Keep trying, maybe the Pope can help you. I understand you gave him a sealed prayer request. Good move. You are, oops, were, always thinking about everyone else deferentially to yourself. What a guy! The Kennedy clan has always been such a swell family. Nothing but saints. Well, at least luckily dead.
Love and Kisses,
Mary Jo
Posted by: Mary Jo Kopechne at August 28, 2009 06:33 PM (xLKu6)
51
From Ed Klein, Newsweek and NY Times Magazine Editor, describing Teddy's penchant for joking about Chappiquidiick:
I don't know if you know this or not, but one of his favorite topics of humor was indeed Chappaquiddick itself. And he would ask people, "have you heard any new jokes about Chappaquiddick?" That is just the most amazing thing. It's not that he didn't feel remorse about the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, but that he still always saw the other side of everything and the ridiculous side of things, too.
Teddy, I died there remember. Wasn't so funny to me. You were an olympic class swimmer, and you couldn't dive 7 foot down in a slack tide, but could somehow swim 250 yards across a river to get back to your hotel room to hide the truth. Remember me, a woman who should be alive today.
Keep climbing Teddy. You might still make it.
Posted by: Mary Jo Kopechne at August 28, 2009 06:48 PM (xLKu6)
52
Most writers have the essential component of the Kennedy-Chappaquiddick saga wrong.
Mary Jo Kopechne did NOT drown. She in fact suffocated. The woman perished while trapped in the submerged Oldsmobile sedan while under water in a dark tidal pond. It was long ago figured that Kopechne survived for at least an hour or more after the crash by breathing from an air pocket. No matter how it’s sliced, that has to be a tough way to die.
With a little detective work it has been figured that the real Chappaquiddick story was fundamentally different from the extensive lie promoted by Kennedy himself. Facts strongly suggest that Kopechne disappeared from the party at an earlier time. She’d mentioned to more than one person that cigarette smoke and the stuffy atmosphere at the cottage were making her feel ill. It was figured that Mary Jo Kopechne after making her way outside, found the unlocked Oldsmobile 4-door sedan, laid down across the back seat and fell asleep. There was no conspiracy or plot involved. It was a matter of simple happenstance.
Later that night, the routinely drunk Teddy Kennedy left the party with another woman, got behind the wheel of the Oldsmobile and aimed the car in the direction of the beach road. Kennedy, with one other person in the front and another laying down on the back seat only made it as far as the narrow Dike Bridge. With his driving skills impaired, Kennedy lost control and drove the car off the bridge and into the Chappaquiddick - Poucha tidal pond.
Perhaps it was the cold ocean water that helped Kennedy sober up enough to escape along with the mystery woman front seat passenger. It is believed that Kennedy did not know that another person was in that car. Kennedy made it back on foot to some point where he was able to make contact with his political minions. Somehow, the operatives got him over to the main island of Martha’s Vineyard, where Kennedy was checked into a motel. Records later showed that numerous phone calls were made back and forth from Kennedy’s room telephone all during the night. He was later seen, in the early morning, having breakfast at the motel coffee shop while casually chatting with other guests.
Meanwhile, local police had discovered in the tidal pond, the now partially exposed Oldsmobile sedan. Upon closer examination, the body of a young woman was found in a corner area near the rear window. Artificial respiration was carried out, but Mary Jo Kopechne could not be revived. Noticed at the time, was that no water could found in the woman’s lungs. Early on, it was figured that Kopechne had not drowned but instead had suffocated. Despite Massachusetts state law, no autopsy was ever performed on Mary Jo Kopechne’s body to discover the true cause of death.
Kennedy’s later contrived story had him at the risk of his own life “diving repeatedly in an effort to save Miss Kopechne”. At the time, innumerable Massachusetts residents, including me, were outraged. Political stooges had taken depraved actions of the drunk miscreant Teddy Kennedy and spun the homicidal debacle into a performance of heroism.
Despite all, the contemptible Teddy Kennedy was elected again and again to the United States Senate by the people of Massachusetts. To this day, I have been unable to find anybody who ever admits to have voted for Kennedy.
No doubt, the entire federal election system along with congress and senate needs a good strong enema. Perhaps with Kennedy’s final flush into the sewer pipe of history, the great cleansing can now commence.
Posted by: Jim Zerga at August 29, 2009 11:35 AM (lMh4/)
53
Wboyz/girlz give it up!
Health care reform will pass due to the work of Edward Moore Kennedy
Posted by: Juan Figueroa at August 29, 2009 12:37 PM (61iow)
54
This is disgusting. What is wrong with you people?
Posted by: longhorns rule at August 30, 2009 11:31 AM (ZHZhK)
55
Most writers have the essential component of the Kennedy-Chappaquiddick saga all wrong.
Mary Jo Kopechne did NOT drown. She in fact suffocated. The woman perished while trapped in the submerged Oldsmobile sedan under water in a pitch black tidal pond. It was long ago figured that Kopechne survived for at least an hour or more after the crash by breathing from an air pocket. No matter how it’s sliced, that has to be a tough way to die.
With a little detective work it has been figured that the real Chappaquiddick story was fundamentally different from the extensive lie promoted by Kennedy himself. Facts strongly suggest that Kopechne disappeared from the party at an earlier time. She’d mentioned to more than one person that cigarette smoke and the stuffy atmosphere at the cottage were making her feel ill. It was figured that Mary Jo Kopechne after making her way outside, found the unlocked Oldsmobile 4-door sedan, laid down across the back seat and fell asleep. There was no conspiracy or plot involved. It was a matter of simple happenstance.
Later that night, the routinely drunk Teddy Kennedy left the party with another woman, got behind the wheel of the Oldsmobile and aimed the car in the direction of the beach road. Kennedy, with one other person in the front and another laying down on the back seat only made it as far as the narrow Dike Bridge. With his driving skills impaired, Kennedy lost control and drove the car off the bridge and into the Chappaquiddick - Poucha tidal pond.
Perhaps it was the cold ocean water that helped Kennedy sober up enough to escape along with the front seat passenger. It is believed that at the time, Kennedy did not know that another person was in the back seat of the car. He made it back on foot to a point where contact was made with political minions. Somehow, the operatives got Kennedy over to the main island of Martha’s Vineyard, where he was checked into a motel. Records later showed that numerous phone calls were made to and from Kennedy’s room telephone during the night. He was later seen, in the early morning, having breakfast at the restaurant while casually chatting with other guests.
Meanwhile, sometime after dawn with the receding tide, police discovered a partially exposed Oldsmobile sedan next to the bridge. Upon closer examination, the body of a young woman was found in a corner area near the rear window of the car. Artificial respiration, as it was known then, was carried out, but Mary Jo Kopechne could not be revived. Noticed at the time, was that no water could be found in the woman’s lungs. Early on, it was figured that Kopechne had not drowned but instead had suffocated. Despite Massachusetts state law in such a case, no autopsy was ever performed on Mary Jo Kopechne’s body to discover the true cause of death.
Kennedy’s later contrived story had him at the risk of his own life “diving repeatedly in an effort to save Miss Kopechne”. At the time, innumerable Massachusetts residents, including me, were outraged. Political stooges had taken depraved actions of the drunk miscreant Teddy Kennedy and spun the homicidal debacle into a performance of heroism.
Despite all, the contemptible Kennedy was elected again and again to the United States Senate by the people of Massachusetts. To this day, I have been unable to find anybody who even admits to having voted for Kennedy. In life and now death Theodore Edward Kennedy was on every level a despicable human being.
If there is one bit of justice to be found in the Chappaquiddick debacle, it is that Kennedy has been forever trapped by his own colossal cover up story lie. For political expediency in the immediate aftermath through his public statement of perjury, Kennedy for all time glued himself into place as the true reason for Kopechne’s death.
Maybe sometime soon, the other woman passenger and witness that night will come forward. It may then be explained that both she and Kennedy had no idea that another person was down in the back seat of that car. Simple fact is that Mary Jo Kopechne perished in tragic accident as an occupant of an automobile driven by a well known habitual drunk. A series of perhaps greater offenses was committed after-the-fact by Kennedy who filed false police reports and fabricated a festival of colossal lies. Truth is, in connection with the Chappaquiddick incident, he perpetrated a cluster of criminal acts. There is no doubt that Teddy Kennedy should have spent forty-seven years in state prison instead of seated within the United State senate.
With that said, the entire federal election system along with congress and senate greatly needs a good strong enema. This nation has to return to the procedures of a true representative republic operated on genuine democratic principles. Perhaps with Teddy Kennedy’s final flush down into the sewer pipe of history, a much needed cleansing can now begin.
Posted by: Jim Zerga at August 30, 2009 12:08 PM (lMh4/)
56
Hey, if you had to bury most of your family, you couldn't handle it! Jeeze, it's not until your old and want that handicapped parking, you will realize allthe good that he did and the laws he created and help pass.
Posted by: Len at August 30, 2009 04:08 PM (ok/ki)
57
With his 10's (or is it really 100's) of millions of dollars of net worth, obama should have a lot of fun "redistributing the wealth". Oh wait, that's only for Republicans! Dems are exempt from everything; paying taxes, following the law, cheating in college, killing someone then lying about it, etc. Were that a Republican, he would have (rightly) rotted in prison!
Posted by: mtnmama at August 30, 2009 05:22 PM (2RS9o)
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August 25, 2009
Some People Call Him Maurice... His Defense Attorney, For Instance
With a O.G. moniker like Maurice Schwenkler, you knew he was destined for trouble:
Police say they've arrested one suspect, but a second remains at large, after two men smashed 11 large, plate-glass windows with hammers at the Colorado Democratic Party Headquarters early Tuesday morning.
Denver Police say an officer was driving by the building, located at 777 Santa Fe Drive, around 2:20 a.m. and spotted two men with hammers smashing the windows.
The officer made his presence known, but police say that's when the two men hopped on their bicycles and tried to get away.
The officer followed the men until one veered off and the officer could only follow one of the suspects.
That man, 24-year-old Maurice Schwenkler, who was wearing a blue hooded sweatshirt, a shirt over his face, jeans and latex gloves, was taken into custody a few blocks away. Police are still looking for the other man.
Damage to the building is estimated at $10,000. Police say they're trying to figure out what motivated the men to commit the crime.
Officials with the Democratic Party, however, think the vandals had a specific target: the posters stating the party's position on health care reform and images of President Obama.
Before he got all smashy-smashy on Democrat HQ, Maurice
worked for a progressive political activist group, Colorado Citizens' Coalition. From that, we can probably infer he is one of the leftist fanatics disenchanted with the probability that government-run healthcare isn't likely to become law anytime soon.
On the bright side, at least he'll have publicly-funded healthcare in jail.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:30 PM
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1
I think the odds are pretty good he and his accomplice were attempting to frame the opposition. I do hope the investigation digs into his email accounts, though I'd bet he's let off on charges of petty vandalism, pays for the damages, then goes right back to his career of left-wing advocacy.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at August 25, 2009 10:40 PM (n2wxa)
2
That group is run by the SEIU.
It is one of their 527 groups.
Looks more and more like a false flag attack than an upset lefty.
Posted by: JustADude at August 25, 2009 11:29 PM (1aM/I)
3
She want free health care so she can complete her sex change.
Posted by: Sandy at August 26, 2009 12:14 AM (nWGqk)
4
Any bets on whether his political leanings will disappear under the "right-wing-assaults-on-democratic-headquarters" state-run-media DNC memo?
Posted by: emdfl at August 26, 2009 08:27 AM (blNMI)
5
Obviously one of those racist right wing teabagger militia types.
Plus, we need national hammer control laws! There is no logical reason a private citizen should be allowed to openly carry a hammer.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at August 26, 2009 08:45 AM (Vcyz0)
6
Actually, according to a post at the local alternative weekly newspaper, it appears that it was a statement concerning Obama's policies on gay rights.
Posted by: wheels at August 27, 2009 01:02 PM (X69NP)
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A Gun-toting Protester MSNBC Doesn't Mind
While I still think carrying firearms to political protests is counterproductive, it is interesting to note the media furor over the open display of firearms in recent events has not been matched by the most recent sighting of an armed protester in Mesa, Arizona on Saturday.
See if you can figure out
why:
Except for one counterprotester, apparently the only one within shouting distance. The man would only give his first name as he stood alone, wearing a Yankee baseball team shirt, a handgun on his hip, holding a contrary sign.
Josh, who explained he would only give his first name because of the type of work he does, said he was a Democrat among a sea of non-Democrats, touting health care reform, but not reforms over his right to bear arms.
"Part of my passion as a Democrat is the right to bear arms," Josh said.
A veteran, and from a long family history of veterans, the man who was very much alone in the small crowd of protesters said he believed in fighting for the less fortunate.
"I am a firm supporter of health care for every American," he said.
Compared to last week's attempt by MSNBC to brand open carry advocates as violent racists—going so far as to
doctor video to agree with their thesis—their treatment of this armed healthcare protester is laudatory.
The conclusion to be drawn from this seems obvious: The media doesn't mind if you carry firearms, as long as you carry their water as well.
(h/t CY reader cousin-merle)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:11 PM
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1
Why don't they show his sign? It probably had some sort of Nazi metaphor or some weird reference to dipping gonads in others' mouths.
Double plus weird.
Posted by: brando at August 25, 2009 01:59 PM (IPGju)
2
astroturfing! He's SS ordered there by Obomber.
Posted by: Tom at August 25, 2009 02:02 PM (g3yD+)
3
What's with the sheets of paper on the back of his sign? The sign itself looks like a big piece of card stock, but there are four or five letter-sized sheets of paper on the side towards the camera, apparently with a great deal of text printed on them.
Talking points?
The script he was to follow when interviewed?
Posted by: Rob Crawford at August 25, 2009 10:36 PM (n2wxa)
4
I got no problem with this guy packin. In my world this is the way it should be. He's exercising his god-given right. Oooo . . . that dipping gonads thing makes me feel funny!
Posted by: Nick Reynolds at August 25, 2009 11:02 PM (Lj0tO)
5
Health Insurance lobbyists probably paid him to paint swastikas!
Posted by: N. Pelosi at August 25, 2009 11:10 PM (E5aZk)
6
Multiple
Standards
Notwithstanding
Broadcasting
Corporation
Posted by: John Becker at August 26, 2009 12:43 AM (hSSMz)
7
This being Arizona, probably 1/4th of the rest of the protesters were packing also - concealed.
Posted by: StormChaser at August 26, 2009 02:18 AM (kj8+x)
8
"I am a firm supporter of health care for every American," he said.
Stop drinking the Kool-Aid from the MSM. Every American NOW gets healthcare. ObamaCare wants every illegal alien to get healthcare insurance subsidized by YOU.
As Obama now says, its Healthcare INSURANCE reform, not healthcare reform.
Josh, please inform yourself about ObamaCare as you have informed yourself about the Second Amendment. The comparison to the Second Amendment would be that only government organized groups would be able to have guns. That's Obama's thinking.
Posted by: Jabba The Tutt at August 26, 2009 08:07 AM (v9rJu)
9
If this guy is a 2nd Amm absolutist his days as a Democrat are numbered. And it is no big number.
Posted by: megapotamus at August 26, 2009 08:11 AM (/wEGI)
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