Confederate Yankee
June 07, 2007
Those Wonderful Layers of Professional Editorial Oversight...
... have blown it yet again. From AFP's lede this morning (my bold):
One Palestinian was killed on Thursday as deadly clashes between rival Fatah and Hamas gunmen erupted for the first time in the Gaza Strip since the latest truce came into effect nearly three weeks ago.
Really?
I guess this nearly
three-hour assault by an estimated 50-100 Hamas gunmen on Fatah's "key Presidential Guard position" just two days ago doesn't count:
Hamas and Fatah forces fought a major gun battle on Tuesday in the Gaza Strip near the Karni commercial crossing, the most serious flare-up in factional fighting in two weeks.
An officer with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Presidential Guard said a "large number" of Hamas fighters attacked a key Presidential Guard position near the crossing, wounding at least one guard member.
Or is AFP keying on the distinction "deadly," implying that if no one dies, then the violence doesn't count?
Perhaps the new AFP standard is "no body/no battle."
Somehow, I don't think that is quite accurate.
Update: Is "No Blood, no Foul" the new media standard for reporting combat? Or is it an old standard I'm just noticing?
Reuters is only slightly better than AFP in their reporting of the most recent outbreak of violence in the Gaza Civil War:
Rival Hamas and Fatah forces clashed in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, killing at least one person and injuring 12 others, in the worst flare-up of factional fighting in almost three weeks.
Like AFP, Reuters doesn't seem to consider Tuesday's three-hour battle worth noting as a serious fight. They seem to be of the opinion that the number of casualties that can be noted determines the seriousness of the conflict.
While casualties can be used to a certain extent to determine the severity of a battle, it should hardly be the only criteria, and is completely devoid of any tactical or strategic gains made by one side or the other. As it currently stands, we don't know if either side gained a strategic or tactical advantage in either of these two engagements, because neither news organization is providing that depth of coverage.
By their apparent casualty-only standard, the D-Day invasion of Normandy (where Allied forces suffered an
estimated 10,000 casualties, including 2,500 dead, and the Germans suffered between 4,000-9,000 casualties), was far less important than the battle of
Iwo Jima, where American forces suffered 27,909 casualties (including 8,226 combat-related deaths) and the Japanese lost more than 20,000 killed.
I don't think any sane person would dare make that argument.
Both battles were extremely costly and important for different reasons, and yet, the apparent criteria in use by these media organizations would make Iwo Jima the far more important battle based on casualty figures alone.
Casualty figures are an important indication of the scale of a battle or conflict, but they are only
one indicator... unless someone is willing to argue that the inconclusive
Battle of Spotsylvania Court House in May of 1864 where Lee inflicted nearly over 18,000 casualties and nearly 3,000 dead on Grant's Army will be judged as historically important to Americans as the first several years of the Iraq War.
I'm not willing to buy that flawed line of reasoning.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:05 AM
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June 06, 2007
Blotter Claims Iran Caught Red-Handed, Ignorant Critics Deny Reality of Sunni/Shia Terror Relationships
Here's the Blotter story, which I'll take with a Prudential rock-sized grain of salt, as I've personally caught Brian Ross being dead wrong on the facts before.
That said, I'm already sick and tired of the smugly
ignorant (check out the Blotter's comment thread as well) who repeat the delusion that Iranian Shias will not work with or support Iraqi insurgents, Afghan Taliban, or al Qaeda terrorists, merely because these groups are Sunni.
I hate to break this fabrication with a dose of reality, but does anyone remember who Iran's primary ally is? Sunni Baathist Syria. Iran has also long supported Sunni terrorist groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, just to name two more.
Iran has a long and concrete history of allying with Baathist Syria and Sunni terrorist groups to support their foreign policy goals.
It's time to put this self-serving bit of "common sense" to bed as the abject ignorance it actually is.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:13 PM
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1
Ahh, Bob. The regime in Syria is Alawite Shia; a minority yes, but in charge.
Posted by: RiverRat at June 07, 2007 01:01 AM (1ZNLc)
2
"the delusion that Iranian Shias will not work with or support Iraqi insurgents, Afghan Taliban, or al Qaeda terrorists, merely because these groups are Sunni."
No, the argument is slightly more complex than that.
If we assume that Iran wants Iraq to become a stable Iranian ally (which should be obvious) then it is in their interests to support the elected Iraqi government (who are more pro-Iran than they are pro-US, many of whom come from Iranian backed political parties such as Da'wa and SCIRI (Now SIIC).)
Given that it is in their interest to support the government, why would they supply weapons to groups who reject that government? Why, in particular, would they supply Ex-Baathist Sunnis and Salafist Jihadis, both of whom were their sworn enemies against their friends in the government.
It makes about as much sense as the US supplying arms and training to Shiite rebels in Saudi Arabia. Forget about the denominations and faiths, look at the politics.
Now, I grant that it is possible that Iran *is* playing a very dangerous game, turning up the heat on the US with the intent of keeping them in Iraq in order to keep them tied down and unable to attack Iran. However, there are strong arguments against them taking such action;
1) If it was demonstrated clearly that they were it would provide the US with the causus belli required to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities (the very thing that Iran wants to avoid)
2) As above, they would be destabalising a government that is their friend in favour of people who are their enemies.
3) They don't have to get involved because it is obvious that in the next couple of years the Iraqi government is going to evict US troops, leaving an Iranian-Iraqi alliance. This will happen quite happily without Iranian involvement.
So, given strong arguments against Iranian involvement, and the lack of any credible evidence in favour of Iranian involvement, it behooves us to ask for extraordinarily strong evidence to match the extraordinarily claim that Iran is acting in such a foolish manner.
In response to the Blotter article, well, given that everyone is onvolved in a propeganda war, I'll believe what military analysts say when the evidence is provided in public, to independant witnesses with the ability to fact check the claims.
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 05:36 AM (kkgmI)
3
Been there, they are in involved.
Posted by: CSASarge at June 07, 2007 07:01 AM (2sjvI)
4
Yeah, and "secular" Saddam would never work with "religious" al qaeda
Posted by: TMF at June 07, 2007 07:09 AM (KTgUG)
5
"I'll believe what military analysts say when the evidence is provided in public"
So your working assumption is your being lied to?
Lets see... 1979 Hostages, 1983 Marine Barracks bombing, 1998 Kobar Towers, capture of top ranking Iranian intel agents in northern Iraq (oh, thats right, they were "diplomats"), abduction of British navymen....
Yep, I cant see how anyone would make the logical connection there.
Military must be lying.
Posted by: TMF at June 07, 2007 07:12 AM (KTgUG)
6
Ahh, Bob. The regime in Syria is Alawite Shia; a minority yes, but in charge.
In Syria, the population is 90% Muslims and 74% of those are Sunni, including the security services that many experts claim is actually running the country, as is Assad's wife. I guess you could make the argument that by being Alawite, Assad is then a Shia is good standing, but that might only bolster my point--he still supplies arms and support to Sunni terrorist groups, making this yet another Shia regime that supports Sunni terrorism as an extension of their foreign policy.
If we assume that Iran wants Iraq to become a stable Iranian ally (which should be obvious) then it is in their interests to support the elected Iraqi government (who are more pro-Iran than they are pro-US, many of whom come from Iranian backed political parties such as Da'wa and SCIRI (Now SIIC).)
Given that it is in their interest to support the government, why would they supply weapons to groups who reject that government? Why, in particular, would they supply Ex-Baathist Sunnis and Salafist Jihadis, both of whom were their sworn enemies against their friends in the government.
The answer to that is blindingly simple isn't it?
Iran wants to force the coalition out of Iraq and NATO out of Afghanistan, and the simplist way to do that is to support any group attempting to keep these countries destabilized and violent.
They have little to no interest in making Iraq an ally, at least not all of Iraq; they are keenly interested in controlling the southern Iraqi provinces when oil abounds, and they have the bulk of their allies. Iran would be quite happy with a a partitioned Iraq, as they could then exert their influence more fully, free from a cetralized Iraqi government. A partitioned Iraq would also allow them the freedom to pursue the Kuds in the north that have been a thorn in their sides for decades, or at the very least, might lead the Turks to confront the Kurds, drawing pro-Kurdish groups out of northwestern Iran to fight Turkish forces.
It is in Iran's best interests as a nation that views itself as a rising regional superpower to provide support to any terrorist group that could destabilize neighboring countries, and further their foreign policy aspirations to more influence the Persian Gulf Region.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 07, 2007 07:38 AM (9y6qg)
7
and the lack of any credible evidence in favour of Iranian involvement
If Iraq's oil production stays low, world (and Iran's) oil prices stays higher.
What motivation could be simpler than that?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 07, 2007 07:53 AM (Sr5ZD)
8
"So your working assumption is your being lied to?"
Well, yes. I assume that everyone is playing the propeganda game.
"Iran wants to force the coalition out of Iraq and NATO out of Afghanistan, and the simplist way to do that is to support any group attempting to keep these countries destabilized and violent."
The simplest way (and probably the only way) to get US forces out of Iraq is to ensure that the Pro-Iran government in Iraq gains control over the country, followed by a parliamentary move to expel US forces in entirety. Any other method will simply leave US permanent bases in place. Thus you want to be friends with the government in place and friends with nationalists who can force such a vote. What you don't want to do is give US forces the excuse to stay around forever.
(NB. Afghanistan is a different issue. There constant trouble on the boil is the best play)
"They have little to no interest in making Iraq an ally, at least not all of Iraq; they are keenly interested in controlling the southern Iraqi provinces when oil abounds, and they have the bulk of their allies. Iran would be quite happy with a a partitioned Iraq, as they could then exert their influence more fully, free from a cetralized Iraqi government."
Partitioned or not they want Iraq as an ally of theirs, not the US. I don't think that they care one way or another about partition, except that they have the same issues with an independent Kurdistan as Turkey does. A unified Iraq would eliminate that threat. A partitioned one would allow greater control of the South. Swings and roundabouts.
What they do need however, is a government stable enough to reject the US occupation because a small scale insurgency isn't going to do it for them. That's why I say that supporting the Sunni insurgents isn't in their best interests. Supporting the Salafi Jihadists would be plain nuts.
"It is in Iran's best interests as a nation that views itself as a rising regional superpower to provide support to any terrorist group that could destabilize neighboring countries, and further their foreign policy aspirations to more influence the Persian Gulf Region."
But the point is that they get more influence with a stable Pro-Iranian government in Bagdhad than they do out of an ongoing US occupation. Supporting Sunnni insurgents promotes the latter, not doing so promotes the former.
Why would they want chaos when their guys are in charge? Like I say, that would be like the US trying to destabalise the Saudis.
(As I say, in Afghanistan the logic is exactly reversed. Ongoing chaos in Afghanistan keeps NATO troops bogged down at a very low cost and may buy some influence with the possible new Islamist regime as opposed to the current Pro-Us government.)
"If Iraq's oil production stays low, world (and Iran's) oil prices stays higher."
World oil prices aren't going down for anyone and , without wanting to get all conspiritorial about it, the people who have done most to ensure high oil prices over the last five years have been the US government. I'm sure the Iranians are quite happy about it but they're just riding the wave without having to actually do anything at all.
In fact, that is the big gag of the whole war. The big winners are, without a doubt, the Iranians and they didn't need to lift a finger beyond a little counterintel, Chalabi style.
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 08:27 AM (kkgmI)
9
"capture of top ranking Iranian intel agents in northern Iraq (oh, thats right, they were "diplomats")"
Oh yes, and if they are Iranian intel agents, can we see them, along with evidence of the same.
Once again we are asked to take it on good faith that they are who the US says they are rather than who the Iranians say they are.
Frankly, I am fed up with taking things on good faith. I want to see some cold hard evidence, not unsupported supposition. Surely that isn't so wrong?
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 08:32 AM (kkgmI)
10
"I am fed up with taking things on good faith. I want to see some cold hard evidence, not unsupported supposition. Surely that isn't so wrong?"
You are the one in bad faith
The US provided their names, their ranks, and their positions in the Iranian regime. The iranians admitted they were with the regime but denied they were there for espionage or insurgency reasons.
You are choosing to accept the word of a lying, terrorist supporting regime that is flaunting international law on a daily basis and crushing individual liberty domestically.
You are the one with the problem, sir.
Posted by: TMF at June 07, 2007 09:52 AM (KTgUG)
11
"The US provided their names, their ranks, and their positions in the Iranian regime. The iranians admitted they were with the regime but denied they were there for espionage or insurgency reasons."
Of course they admitted they were with the regime. As did the Kurdish authorities in the area (our allies remember). As, I imagine, did the President of Iraq when he met with them previously. The question isn't "Were the people in the Iranian consulate Iranians", it is "Were they instigating and supporting the insurgency?". On that question we have no evidence whatsoever just an accusation from one side and a denial from the other.
"You are choosing to accept the word of a lying, terrorist supporting regime that is flaunting international law on a daily basis and crushing individual liberty domestically."
No, I am choosing to accept no-one's word without evidence. Cold, hard, independently verified evidence. Where you choose to place your faith is, of course, your own choice, but every government, particularly in wartime, has a history of outright falsehood for wider gains.
Isn't one of the bases of conservative thought that when the government says "Trust me on this" you should get suspicious?
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 10:19 AM (kkgmI)
12
"Isn't one of the bases of conservative thought that when the government says "Trust me on this" you should get suspicious"?
No its not. That is the bases of conspiracy theorist goofiness
Healthy skepticism is certainly warranted. Blanket doubt/solipism is not.
Unless you are a paranoid.
Posted by: TMF at June 07, 2007 11:30 AM (KTgUG)
13
TMP:::"Yeah, and "secular" Saddam would never work with "religious" al qaeda"
NO!!! Saddam had STRONG TIES to al qaeda and 911
"Isn't one of the bases of conservative thought that when the government says "Trust me on this" you should get suspicious"?
TMF:::"No its not. That is the bases of conspiracy theorist goofiness"
TMF your HALF right
some leaders have a MORAL COMPASS,,, some dont
some DESECRATE the OVAL OFFICE,,, others are FORTHRIGHT and defend the HOMELAND aginst EVILDOERS
TMF:::"Healthy skepticism is certainly warranted. Blanket doubt/solipism is not."
SOLIPISM??? whats that
i AGREE with most everythinmg else
Posted by: Karl at June 07, 2007 12:57 PM (5zEhw)
14
"Healthy skepticism is certainly warranted."
What part of "I'd like to see some evidence for that claim" do you consider goes beyond "Healthy skepticism"?
"Blanket doubt/solipism is not."
Asking for evidence and reserving judgement until it is available is pretty much the opposite of Solipsism, which is, of course, the belief that knowledge beyond mind is unjustified or even impossible. A Solipsist would never ask for material evidence beause he would regard it as worthless. I am specifically asking for material evidence in support of a claim which is 'Empiricism'.
Sorry for the digression, but you can read simple stuff about Solipism here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
and about Empiricism here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 02:18 PM (EX6eK)
15
Rafar, what about the Iranian made EFPs we have found in Iraq? Is that proof enough for you they are involved?
Posted by: jbiccum at June 07, 2007 02:35 PM (Rd4s4)
16
Rafar, what kind of proof do you need? Do you need to see them with your own eyes?
Posted by: jbiccum at June 07, 2007 02:36 PM (Rd4s4)
17
Rafar,
Let's say that I can prove that the Iranian government purchased a very unique, very specific type of weapon, and the serial numbers of the weapons shipped were documented prior to transfer.
If within months of purchase those weapons started being used in distinctive attacks indivative of that very specific weapon type, and then these weapons started being captured in, say, Baghdad, and American forces captured them in very significant quantities--say more than 10% of the overall shipment--would you then believe that Iran was supplying weapons?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 07, 2007 02:51 PM (9y6qg)
18
"Let's say that I can prove that the Iranian government purchased a very unique, very specific type of weapon, and the serial numbers of the weapons shipped were documented prior to transfer.
If within months of purchase those weapons started being used in distinctive attacks indivative of that very specific weapon type, and then these weapons started being captured in, say, Baghdad, and American forces captured them in very significant quantities--say more than 10% of the overall shipment--would you then believe that Iran was supplying weapons?"
I would certainly be very interested in such evidence. Do you have any from an independent or verifiable source?
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 03:07 PM (EX6eK)
19
I guess that depends on how credible the U.K. Telegraph is.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 07, 2007 03:14 PM (9y6qg)
20
Relatively credible, but I would note that the story says;
"The find is the latest in a series of discoveries that indicate that Teheran is providing support to Iraq's Shia insurgents."
I never claimed that the Iranians weren't arming the Shia militias. Hell, for all intents and purposes, the US army is arming the Shia militias, by providing equipment to the heavily infiltrated Iraqi police.
This post was about Iran supplying Sunni guerillas, not Shiite groups. We all know that the Badr corps, for example, was founded, funded and trained in Iran. They are, of course, the armed wing of SIIC (Was SCIRI) and run the interior ministry and thus a large section of the Iraqi police.
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 04:07 PM (EX6eK)
21
Forget it Bob, this dude is mainlining the kool-aid.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 07, 2007 04:08 PM (Sr5ZD)
22
"Forget it Bob, this dude is mainlining the kool-aid."
I'm sorry, asking for evidence and keeping to the original point of the post ("That said, I'm already sick and tired of the smugly ignorant (check out the Blotter's comment thread as well) who repeat the delusion that Iranian Shias will not work with or support Iraqi insurgents, Afghan Taliban, or al Qaeda terrorists, merely because these groups are Sunni.") is drinking the cool aid?
Surely believing stuff without evidence and arguing against strawmen versions of the post are the behaviours of the kool-aid drinker?
I mean, he wasn't talking about Shia groups, and neither was I.
I'll tell you what scared me. The number of people in the thread on the blotter who advocated everything ranging from nuking Tehran to turning the whole of the Middle East into a sea of glass. On evidence as poor as that offered. Believe what you like, but that is just sick. Surely you agree with that? Aren't we the people who consider all human life to be created equal?
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 04:36 PM (EX6eK)
23
Karl
Now your making sense! I agree with you too!
Dont know about Sadaams "strong" ties with Al Qaeda, however. IOve gotta respectfully disagree with you on that point.
Clearly he harbored well known islamic jihadist terrorists like Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas, and also probably harbored the 1993 WTC bomber, Rahman Yasin for years, and provided millions to suicide bombers families in Israel, and likely had his emissary in Prague meet with Muhammed Attah several months prior to 9-11, and allowed al-qaeda linked terrorists Ansar Al Islam to operate with impunity in northern Iraq, and his regime had multiple contacts/high level meetings with Zawahiri, Bin Laden, and other top ranking Al Qaeda, and who knows how many other connections which haven't been uncovered..
But Im sorry, my friend, I cant take the leap of faith that you do by calling the ties to al qaeda "strong".
Thats where we'll have to agree to disagree buddy! Otherwise, KEEP THE FAITH
Posted by: TMF at June 07, 2007 05:00 PM (KTgUG)
24
TMF:::"Now your making sense! I agree with you too!"
YES!!!!
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Clearly he harbored well known islamic jihadist terrorists like Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas, and also probably harbored the 1993 WTC bomber, Rahman Yasin for years, and provided millions to suicide bombers families in Israel, and likely had his emissary in Prague meet with Muhammed Attah several months prior to 9-11, and allowed al-qaeda linked terrorists Ansar Al Islam to operate with impunity in northern Iraq, and his regime had multiple contacts/high level meetings with Zawahiri, Bin Laden, and other top ranking Al Qaeda, and who knows how many other connections which haven't been uncovered..
But Im sorry, my friend, I cant take the leap of faith that you do by calling the ties to al qaeda "strong".
Thats where we'll have to agree to disagree buddy! Otherwise, KEEP THE FAITH
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
AGREED!!!! itsa just simantics!! you say tomayto i say tomahdo
YES!!!!
Posted by: Karl at June 07, 2007 06:39 PM (5zEhw)
25
asking for evidence...
Living in a cocoon willfully ignorant of existing evidence, previous news stories, and 38 years of historical context is more like it.
You came to this game with opinions already formed -- based on nothing but your "faith" that reality had to be the way you desired it to be.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 08, 2007 07:52 AM (Sr5ZD)
26
"Living in a cocoon willfully ignorant of existing evidence, previous news stories, and 38 years of historical context is more like it."
No, not really, but thank for for the frank assesment of my character. I, of course, have absolutely no idea about you so refrain from drawing conclusions about you.
By the way, why 38 years of context? Why not, say, a couple of hundred? Would you try to analyse the relations between the South and North of the US going on only the history of the last 50 years, or would an understanding of the last 200 be of more use?
"You came to this game with opinions already formed -- based on nothing but your "faith" that reality had to be the way you desired it to be."
No, again, you are confusing someone who has not drawn a conclusion and is presenting an argument for why evidence is needed to draw the given conclusion with someone who has already made his mind up.
As I said, it is possible that Iran is arming Iraqi Sunni Insurgents, it just doesn't make any sense. Given that it makes no sense I would expect some good solid evidence to convince me otherwise.
In contrast, Iran arming Iraqi Shiites makes sense, and so evidence for that is hardly a surprise. Iran arming Iraqi Sunni insurgents makes no good sense, so evidence of it would be a surprise.
I note that you haven't offered any yet.
"your "faith" that reality had to be the way you desired it to be."
Again, that isn't Empiricism which is what asking for evidence of claim is. Obviously if reality had to be the way I desired it to be Iran would be a land of peace, freedom and goodwill to all, Iraq would be a flowering garden and the US military would pack their bags from around the world and go home to perform some productive labour. Unfortunately this isn't the case.
Out of interest, do you join those calling for the nuclear elimination of Iran or do you condemn them?
Posted by: Rafar at June 08, 2007 08:21 AM (kkgmI)
27
By the way, why 38 years of context?
Think about it for a while. Your mind needs the exercise. It involves Paris.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 08, 2007 02:42 PM (Sr5ZD)
28
"Think about it for a while."
Sorry, I thought that it was perfectly obvious that I was suggesting that you needed to extend your context. In future I will ensure that when I address you I write as clearly and simply as possible.
Posted by: Rafar at June 09, 2007 02:52 AM (EX6eK)
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A Link in a Great Chain [Repost]
General
George S. Patton's Normandy Invasion Speech:
"Be Seated."
"Men, this stuff we hear about America wanting to stay out of the war, not wanting to fight, is a lot of bullshit. Americans love to fight - traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble player; the fastest runner; the big league ball players; the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win - all the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost, not ever will lose a war, for the very thought of losing is hateful to an American."
"You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you here today would die in a major battle. Death must not be feared. Every man is frightened at first in battle. If he says he isn't, he's a goddamn liar. Some men are cowards, yes! But they fight just the same, or get the hell shamed out of them watching men who do fight who are just as scared. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some get over their fright in a minute under fire, some take an hour. For some it takes days. But the real man never lets fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to this country and his innate manhood."
"All through your army career you men have bitched about "This chickenshit drilling." That is all for a purpose. Drilling and discipline must be maintained in any army if for only one reason -- INSTANT OBEDIENCE TO ORDERS AND TO CREATE CONSTANT ALERTNESS. I don't give a damn for a man who is not always on his toes. You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready. A man to continue breathing must be alert at all times. If not, sometime a German son-of-a-bitch will sneak up behind him and beat him to death with a sock full of shit."
"There are 400 neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily all because one man went to sleep on his job -- but they were German graves for we caught the bastard asleep before his officers did. An Army is a team. Lives, sleeps, eats, fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is a lot of crap. The bilious bastards who wrote that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting, under fire, than they do about fucking. We have the best food, the finest equipment, the best spirit and the best fighting men in the world. Why, by God, I actually pity these poor sons-of-bitches we are going up against. By God, I do!"
"My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he is hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight. That's not just bullshit, either. The kind of man I want under me is like the lieutenant in Libya, who, with a Lugar against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand and busted hell out of the Boche with the helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German: All this with a bullet through his lung. That's a man for you."
"All real heroes are not story book combat fighters either. Every man in the army plays a vital part. Every little job is essential. Don't ever let down, thinking your role is unimportant. Every man has a job to do. Every man is a link in the great chain. What if every truck driver decided that he didn't like the whine of the shells overhead, turned yellow and jumped headlong into the ditch? He could say to himself, "They won't miss me -- just one in thousands." What if every man said that? Where in hell would we be now? No, thank God, Americans don't say that! Every man does his job; every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important to the vast scheme of things. The Ordnance men are needed to supply the guns, the Quartermaster to bring up the food and clothes to us -- for where we're going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man in the mess hall, even the one who heats the water to keep us from getting the GI shits has a job to do. Even the chaplain is important, for if we get killed and if he is not there to bury us we'd all go to hell."
"Each man must not only think of himself, but of his buddy fighting beside him. We don't want yellow cowards in this army. They should all be killed off like flies. If not they will go back home after the war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed brave men. Kill off the goddamn cowards and we'll have a nation of brave men."
"One of the bravest men I ever saw in the African campaign was the fellow I saw on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of furious fire while we were plowing toward Tunis. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at that time. He answered, "Fixing the wire, sir." "Isn't it a little unhealthy right now?," I asked. "Yes sir, but this goddamn wire's got to be fixed." There was a real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how great the odds, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time."
"You should have seen those trucks on the road to Gabes. The drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled over those son-of-a-bitching roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course, with shells bursting around them all the time. We got through on good old American guts. Many of these men drove over forty consecutive hours. These weren't combat men. But they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it -- and in a whale of a way they did it. They were part of a team. Without them the fight would have been lost. All the links in the chain pulled together and that chain became unbreakable."
"Don't forget, you don't know I'm here. No word of the fact is to be mentioned in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell became of me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the goddamn Germans. Someday I want them to raise up on their hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the goddamn Third Army and that son-of-a-bitch Patton again.'"
"We want to get the hell over there. We want to get over there and clear the goddamn thing up. You can't win a war lying down. The quicker we clean up this goddamn mess, the quicker we can take a jaunt against the purple pissing Japs an clean their nest out too, before the Marines get all the goddamn credit."
"Sure, we all want to be home. We want this thing over with. The quickest way to get it over is to get the bastards. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin. When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a Boche will get him eventually, and the hell with that idea. The hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one. We'll win this war but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans we've got more guts than they have."
"There is one great thing you men will all be able to say when you go home. You may thank God for it. Thank God, that at least, thirty years from now, when you are sitting around the fireside with your grandson on your knees, and he asks you what you did in the great war, you won't have to cough and say, 'I shoveled shit in Louisiana.' No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, 'Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-Goddamned-Bitch named George Patton!'"
"That is all."
God Bless the veterans of
the Great Crusade launched on this day in Normandy, France in 1944, and the soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen that today carry on that same fighting spirit.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:23 PM
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Bob,
I'd never read this speech before. It's f'ing great. Thanks for posting it.
My wife's father was in the 82nd, dropped into Normandy the night before, and in his honor I will raise a glass tonight to all the men who took part in this Great Crusade.
Those magnificent bastards.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 02:36 PM (kxecL)
Posted by: Dan Patterson at June 06, 2007 05:13 PM (NyVIk)
3
Damn, is all I can say. What happened to us? I want Patton resurrected!
Posted by: Cheryl at June 06, 2007 05:16 PM (/BpPx)
4
WOW. that was really somethin'. came here via Dollard's site. so very, very glad i did.
Posted by: ghostie alix at June 06, 2007 06:54 PM (vy3Ol)
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Duke Lacrosse Judge Takes Aim at Nifong
As if having the case thrown out and ethics charges brought against him by the N.C. State Bar weren't enough, now Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong may face action from the judge presiding over the now dismissed Duke lacrosse rape case:
Superior Court Judge W. Osmond Smith III wrote that significant concerns about evidence arose during a Dec. 15 hearing, months before the state Attorney General's Office dismissed the charges. At the hearing, DNA expert Brian Meehan testified that he and Nifong agreed to withhold test results from the defense, including the fact that DNA from unidentified men was found in and on the accuser's body.
The N.C. State Bar has charged Nifong with a number of ethical violations, including withholding DNA evidence favorable to the defense.
Under North Carolina law, the State Bar and trial court judges both have the power to discipline lawyers for misconduct, so Nifong faces the prospect of punishment from both.
Trial judges such as Smith can take a wide range of actions in disciplining lawyers; Smith could scold Nifong, disbar him or even send him to jail for contempt of court.
Another judge in Durham is awaiting the results of the N.C. State Bar ethics case against Nifong before considering a request by a Durham native to have Nifong stripped of his office.
It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:36 PM
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Did AP Float a Turkey of an Invasion Story?
You know that AP story that Drudge linked this morning about several thousand Turkish troops crossing the border into Iraq?
Several thousand Turkish troops crossed into northern Iraq early Wednesday to chase Kurdish guerrillas who attack Turkey from bases there, two Turkish security officials said. Turkey's foreign minister denied its troops had entered Iraq.
Two senior security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media, characterized the action as a "hot pursuit" raid that was limited in scope. They told The Associated Press it did not constitute the kind of large incursion that Turkish leaders have been discussing in recent weeks as Turkish troops built up their force along the border.
Well,
maybe not so much:
Turkey has denied a report that several thousand troops had been sent into northern Iraq to combat Kurdish separatists hiding there.
"There is no incursion into any other country at the moment," Abdullah Gul, Turkey's foreign minister, said on Wednesday.
Earlier, the DEBKAfile website said 50,000 men had been deployed to the area.
Ankara described the report as "disinformation".
Hoshiyar Zebari, Iraq's foreign minister, said that there was no evidence that Turkish troops had entered Iraq.
"We have checked all along the border and there hasn't been any incursion or military operation inside Iraqi territory," he said.
"Iraq will not tolerate any military incursion. There is always room for dialogue."
A White House spokesman, in Germany for a G8 summit, also said that "no new activity" had been detected in northern Iraq.
An
update of the AP article states that their anonymous original source still stand by their claims.
Who would
you believe, three anonymous sources apparently in contact with a solitary reporter, or the two named foriegn ministers of the countries in question, and a named National Security Council spokesman?
With no other corroboration, it looks like this reporter has cried
fowl foul.
Update: Looking back through the archives, it seems possible that someone other than the Turks are capable of accidental invasions.
Anybody checked on the Swiss lately?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I believe the AP, they always get it right.
Posted by: Retired Navy at June 06, 2007 01:55 PM (WGcw3)
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New RAF Nose Art Approved

(click image for larger picture)
Because you
never want to offend anyone before you kill them.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:43 PM
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I think I can see her big toe.
JIHAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: phin at June 06, 2007 01:14 PM (CQcil)
2
If you think the cartoons jihad was bad. Just see what is going to happen when they find out an infidel has a muslim girl as a pin up on his aircraft.
Posted by: davod at June 06, 2007 05:07 PM (RdotW)
3
davod,
Just so you know, I 'shopped that out of two completely different pictures I swiped off a Google image seach.
Said "infidel" has no markings on his plane outside of this blog.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 07, 2007 07:46 AM (9y6qg)
Posted by: RebeccaH at June 07, 2007 09:01 PM (A5s0y)
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Ahmadinejad Claims Iran's Nuclear Drive Can't be Stopped
Nuclear chicken, anyone?
Iran's nuclear program cannot be stopped, and any Western attempt to force a halt to uranium enrichment would be like playing "with the lion's tail," President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tuesday.
In Berlin, Germany's foreign minister reported no progress in talks with Iran's chief nuclear negotiator ahead of the Group of Eight summit. And with the U.N. Security Council preparing to debate a third set of sanctions for Tehran's refusal to suspend enrichment, Britain raised the possibility of adding curbs on oil and gas investment to the limited measures against individuals and companies involved in Iran's nuclear and weapons programs.
"We advise them to give up stubbornness and childish games," Ahmadinejad said at a news conference. "Some say Iran is like a lion. It's seated quietly in a corner. We advise them not to play with the lion's tail."
Added Ahmadinejad: "It is too late to stop the progress of Iran."
In Washington, State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack responded: "It isn't."
McCormack is of course referring to diplomatic efforts by the United States and other nations in the international community to coax Iran into giving up their suspected nuclear weapons program.
Like any nuclear weapons program, the Iranian nuclear weapons program must have multiple minimum components, those being the ability to acquire raw uranium ore, the ability and facilities to process and enrich the uranium to "weapons grade," the ability to develop a warhead, and the ability to deliver a warhead.
Iran has
as many as 10 functioning uranium mines according to GlobalSecurity.Org, so acquiring the raw uranium ore has never been an issue. Iran also has at least
11 known facilities to process and enrich their raw ores, with Natanz and Bushehr perhaps being the most well known. Iran is also developing a parallel plutonium-based program out of Arak.
As for the warheads, the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency (IAEA) stated that they were aware that Iran has acquired
documents and drawings on the black market, and there has been speculation that Iran may have acquired dual-use components from western countries in the 1990s, as well as warhead technology from
North Korea.
Iran is said to have developed long-range missiles such as the claimed
Fajr-3 with multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV) capability typically used only with nuclear warheads, and the proven
Shahab-3, which can carry a singe conventional, chemical, biological, or nuclear warhead.
Based upon this information, it seems Iran has the technical capability to build a viable nuclear weapons threat. Based upon the continued threats and rhetoric issued from Iran through President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran also has the political will and strategic goal of becoming a nuclear power.
Western nations that feel threatened by Iran's apparent drive for nuclear weapons essentially have three options:
- Let Iran continue to develop their nuclear program and hope they are not developing a nuclear weapons program as well;
- Attempt to convince Iran not to develop a nuclear through political and economic pressures and incentives;
- Take covert and overt intelligence and military operations to undermine or remove Iran's nuclear capabilities.
We are well past the point where any reasonable nation can assume that Iran is not attempting to develop a nuclear weapons program. They have been caught with warhead plans by U.N. inspectors, and have developed nuclear-capable delivery systems.
The present efforts are primarily diplomatic and economic in nature, hoping to force Iran to the bargaining table, but as Ahmadinejad's most recent threats and rhetoric attest, they have no intention of slowing nuclear development. If they cannot be persuaded to stop their nuclear program through peaceable means, that leaves only the use of intelligence and military forces.
There has been some speculation and a few indications that covert efforts are already underway, some mirroring efforts used against the Soviet Union in the Cold War, such as providing flawed plans through double agents and spies, and at least one top Iranian nuclear scientist has died within the past year.
These covert efforts, however, can at best slow the Iranian nuclear program. There is no way to be sure that any compromised systems will go undiscovered and uncorrected, and the accumulated knowledge is difficult to eradicate with the death of a few occasional scientists, even if they are prominent.
Sadly, with continued defiance by Iran's government and their apparent belief that nuclear capability is in their nation's best interests, a military solution may yet prove that Iran's nuclear drive can indeed be stopped through force of arms.
The IAF Air Force has 25 F-15I "Ra'am" and 102 F-16I "Sufa" long-range strike fighters with the capability of hitting hardened targets with "bunker-buster" bombs in Iran without refueling. If they can arrange in-air refueling, there are no potential targets in Iran out of range.
There seems to be a common misconception that our ground combat in Iraq precludes a strike on Iran if one is warranted, but that supposition has no basis at all in reality. The U.S. assets available for a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities are literally too numerous to name. While the U.S. military's ground forces are heavily involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. Air Force and Naval units are virtually free for involvement.
At least three U.S. carrier strike groups carrying more than 240 aircraft are thought to be within range of Iran, and an unknown number of submarine and surface fleet vessels armed with cruise missiles are within range of Iran or can be relatively stealthily deployed to the region.
With mid-air refueling capabilities, the U.S. Air Force fleet of B-1B, B-2, and B-52 bombers and the U.S. strike fighter fleet of F15s, F-16s, and F-117 and F-22 stealth fighters can bring to bear literally thousands of precision-guided bombs if needed in single or multiple sorties.
Should it be determined that the military strike is warranted, precedent indicates that President Bush does not need Congressional approval for such a strike. All U.S. Presidents of the past three decades (yes, even Jimmy Carter) have launched military operations without needing or seeking congressional approval, from Carter's botched attempt to rescue U.S. hostages in Iran, to Reagan's strikes on Libya and Grenada, to Bush 41's invasion of Panama, and Clinton's strikes on Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Sudan.
There is some debate over whether such air strikes by U.S. and Israeli aircraft could destroy or significantly damage Iran's nuclear capability. Even with the recent purchase of Soviet anti-aircraft missile systems, Iran's anti-aircraft capability is second-rate, their aging and obsolete Air Force would probably never get off the ground, so their ability to successfully oppose such a strike through is very unlikely.
I would posit that both the Israeli and the U.S. military have munitions capable of destroying or severely damaging Iranian nuclear sites (even hardened underground bunkers), if those sites can be accurately identified. The attacks would only be likely to fail if the targets cannot accurately be identified and targeted.
The obvious downside of any attack by Israel or the United States upon Iranian nuclear facilities is the very real possibility, if not probability, of an Iranian counterattack by both conventional and unconventional forces.
Iran would certainly target U.S. Navy ships in the Persian Gulf in the wake of any attack on Iran, and may also possibly target civilian shipping as well. Some experts anticipate that Iran may also attempt to invade southern Iraq in retaliation. If such an attack takes place, out-gunned and out-manned British forces are severely under threat, and there is a distinct possibility that units could be overrun before coalition airpower annihilated Iranian conventional forces. Iran may also fire missiles at U.S. bases and Iraqi cities. Shia militias loyal to Iran would be directed to rise up against U.S. forces in Iraq, and the resulting battles would potentially be very bloody. Several dozen to several hundred U.S. soldiers could become fatalities, and no doubt thousands of Shia militiamen and civilians would probably perish on the other side.
Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorist groups would probably fire barrages of rockets into Israeli civilian populations, and there is some concern--I'm not sure how serious to take these--that Syria would attack and attempt to retake the Goal Heights, with the predictable disastrous results to Syrian forces.
There is also a credible threat of Hezbollah-directed terrorist attacks again U.S. interests worldwide and possibly in the United States as a result.
Make no mistake: Iran has the capability to hit back in retaliation after their nuclear facilities are struck, and depending on how these attacks are executed in Iraq, Israel, the united States and elsewhere, casualties could be significant.
What the U.S government, the Israeli's, and perhaps other western and Middle Eastern powers have to take into account is whether or not the threatened Iranian retaliation is a greater threat that the Iranian nuclear program. If Iran is allowed to develop nuclear weapons and their continuous threats are sincere and not just rhetoric, then quite literally, millions of lives are at risk. The result of attempting to use military force to destroy Iran's nuclear program could result in the deaths of thousands. While both options could be avoided by an internal revolt in Iran or a sudden change of course by their government, I fear this bloody drama will be played out by January of 2008, one way, or the other.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:04 AM
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"...to Reagan's strikes on Libya and Grenada, to Bush 41's invasion of Panama, and Clinton's strikes on Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Sudan."
What a roll call of honor! What a collection of veritable military superpowers the US has gallantly prevailed over in recent decades! These victories surely rank up there with Iwo Jima and Midway, D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge!
Posted by: Max at June 06, 2007 11:20 AM (VRb5p)
2
In one word YES
"Sadly, with continued defiance by Iran's government and their apparent belief that nuclear capability is in their nation's best interests, a military solution may yet prove that Iran's nuclear drive can indeed be stopped through force of arms."
yes
"The U.S. assets available for a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities are literally too numerous to name."
YES
"President Bush does not need Congressional approval for such a strike"
YES!!!!
"Israeli and the U.S. military have munitions capable of destroying or severely damaging Iranian nuclear sites (even hardened underground bunkers), if those sites can be accurately identified."
bunker-buster nukes ACE IN THE HOLE
"I fear this bloody drama will be played out by January of 2008, one way, or the other."
nobody wants war LESS than George W Bush and the GOP. Only, the democraps and lieberals undermine at every turn,,, do they WANT war????
Posted by: Karl at June 06, 2007 11:25 AM (5zEhw)
3
Karl,
It seems that the thought of all this destruction being unleashed is getting you terribly excited.
You really should get out more, maybe meet some girls?
Posted by: Max at June 06, 2007 11:31 AM (VRb5p)
4
"... and any Western attempt to force a halt to uranium enrichment would be like playing "with the lion's tail, ...."
Well, not "any". There are plausible attempts to force a halt which would be like "blowing the lion's head off."
Posted by: Dusty at June 06, 2007 11:34 AM (GJLeQ)
5
I know FAR more about girls than you ever will
is it time for your FOOT BATH hippy??? dont forget the sented salts
Posted by: Karl at June 06, 2007 11:48 AM (5zEhw)
6
Max, Karl:
Let's bring this down a notch and stay on topic, please.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 06, 2007 11:57 AM (9y6qg)
7
The Iranian leader, Mr "Im-a-nut-job" suffers from the inability to look left and right....
- We've had him flanked for a few years now.
Posted by: LisaV (aka "Talismen - Lady Crusader against jihad) at June 06, 2007 12:13 PM (hosSA)
8
Thousands of centrifuges require a lot of power to run.
A) Kill the power lines and power generation station(s), and you silence the centrifuges.
B) Reapply Tomahawks as needed.
Just saying...
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 06, 2007 12:29 PM (Sr5ZD)
9
You right wingers are all the same
You think only WAR is the Answer
Well I say war is not the answer! We need to GET ALONG with our muslim friends. IF it weren't for BUSH/CHENEY the muslims wouldnt have to blow themselves up all the time!
HILLARY/OBAMA will bring PEACE you'll see!!!
We need to TALK to the Iraniens. IF we only listened to the BAKER report we wouldnt be in this mess!
Posted by: KarlsJr. at June 06, 2007 12:37 PM (KTgUG)
10
Karl,
Aren't you missing prayer time?
East is that way --->
Come down out of the clouds, dude.
Posted by: LisaV at June 06, 2007 01:36 PM (hosSA)
11
KarlsJr.,
It is nice to be young and idealistic. It is also nice to not know how bad people are and the true nature of religion and other groups that will do anything to push their agenda and harm their fellow man. But the reality of the world is very much different than what you seemd to understand.
Weather you like it or not, we are at war with Islam. Not radical Islam. Not Iraq or any other specfic country. The fact ofthe manner is that Islam has decided to raise its ugly face and send us back to the dark ages or beyond. Not any one specfic individual made this decision. Nor did any specfic group wake up and decide that they were going to take over the world. Instead, we are in the midst of a global confrontation that seems to have started about 100 years ago and has been fueled by stupid policy decisions of several countries and most recently the US. All presidents are equally guilty wheather Democratic or Republican. Certainly GB is an idiot and totally incompetent, but the same can be said for Carter, Clinton, etc.
The problem is that people like you can not seem to understand that this confrontation is in place and that our country and much of western civilization is in jeopardy. Iran is becoming much of a problem now when we eliminate them and we will then we will be weaker and have another group that we will have to deal with.
No amount of good will or good intentions will previal. They may delay the ulitmate, but we are at some point going to have to go to war with a religion and many people will die. The alternative is to give up our way of life and endorse the religion and all the horror it brings to the table. I would be saying this if it were Christianity which I find equally as bad.
Posted by: David Caskey,MD at June 06, 2007 01:45 PM (G5i3t)
12
Dr, Caskey,
I think Karls Jr is a put-on.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 02:46 PM (kxecL)
13
"The alternative is to give up our way of life and endorse the religion and all the horror it brings to the table."
I still don't get how step (2) works in this scenario;
1) Iran builds nuclear weapons.
2) ?????
3) Southern Baptists hurl their Bibles to the floor and start Burka-ing up.
Could you explain how (2) works for me please?
Posted by: Rafar at June 07, 2007 06:27 AM (kkgmI)
14
Here's how I see the Iranian thing going down, Rafar:
1. Iran gets nuclear weapons
2. Iran uses said nuclear weapons either directly or via proxy against Israel and probably several US cities
3. Alot of people die
Not sure about the burqa thing.
Posted by: TMF at June 07, 2007 07:14 AM (KTgUG)
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6,301,084,228 undocumented Americans want their piece too
Uncle Harry's a helluva a guy. Between he and Ma Pelosi they're running the most ethical government ever. Those first couple of months in office got off to a rough start, what with President Bush stonewalling them at every turn. But now, now they've got the power. Harry and Nancy, they're the modern day He-Man and She-Ra and Harry, he's the Master of his Domain.
On the first day of the 110th Congress, Democrats introduced bills reflecting the ten priorities that America sent us here to address. Last Friday we concluded a seven week work period, and we have taken action on seven of those ten priorities:
- We passed the toughest ethics and lobbying reform in our nation’s history.
- We passed a much deserved and long overdue raise in the federal minimum wage for working people, which was signed into law last week.
- We attempted to give Medicare the power to negotiate lower drug prices, but this effort was filibustered by Republicans.
- We passed the recommendations of the bipartisan 9/11 Commission, after they had been pushed aside for years.
- For the second year in a row, we voted to give the hope of stem cell research to millions of Americans who suffer, and will soon send that bill to the President.
- We passed a balanced budget that restores fiscal discipline and puts the middle class first – cutting their taxes while increasing investment in education, veterans’ care and children’s health care.
- And we began debate on the complex and crucial issue of immigration reform.
This week, we will vote on cloture and final passage of a comprehensive bill that will strengthen border security, bring the 12 million undocumented Americans out of the shadows, and keep our economy strong. In the days ahead, we will work to improve the bill to protect and strengthen family ties while improving the structure of the temporary-worker program.
Harry Reid has a plan for world peace, unfortunately it involves adopting every American adopting at least 20 refugees from impoverished nations, like England, France and Germany. That way we can take care of all the 6,301,084,228 undocumented Americans. Personally I'm cool with that just so long as none of mine are those damned dirty scandis. If I had my preference it'd be an even split of hot Latino and Asian chicks. Of course I might have to change my name to Woody Allen.
BFirst I guess we have to deal with those
12 million undocumented Americans, you know the one's doing the jobs the Americans with "papers" won't do. Sure a great number of those undocumented Americans entered our country illegally, forged documents to get work and steal the benefits our tax dollars are paying for; but they're mostly our neighbors and what are you a damned racist? Plus Harry and Nancy need pool-boys and cabana-girls.
No worries about them only focusing on bringing the world under our care though. They've got plans to screw up lots of things.
Following immigration, we will turn our attention to the three remaining bills from our original ten:
- An energy bill that will take a crucial first step toward weaning our country’s addiction to foreign oil.
- A reauthorization of the Higher Education Act that will address the skyrocketing costs of college.
- And a Defense Authorization bill that will make critical investments to address troop readiness problems in the military caused by the President’s flawed Iraq policy.
We will also reconfigure our national security strategy to better meet the threats and challenges we face today and the President is overlooking.
Yay, he's gonna reduce our dependence on oil. Which means prices are going to drop so I can keep pouring oil into my four-wheel-drive F-150. I sure hope they start their focus on education
tommorrow, 'cause a great number of today's kids are morons that can barely operate the intertubes.
I wonder if by
Defense Authorization bill he means a draft? Or maybe he's going with robots, flesh-eating, fire-breathing robots.
h/t:
Michelle Malkin
Posted by: phin at
08:54 AM
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Bob,
I don't understand what you and Michelle are upset about. I mean that. I don't get the point of this post or Michelle's.
If you mean the Democrats haven't followed through on everything they promised, I'm with you on that.
If you're against raising the minimum wage, I don't agree, but I understand your opposition.
If you're against Medicare using its power to get lower drug prices or any of the other points, well, reasonable people can disagree, and that's OK.
But if this is all over Reid's using the term Americans, as in 12 million undocumented Americans, then I don't get it. Talk to people from Central and South America. One of the things that really gets in their craw is our assumption that American means citizens of the US.
I think they're fighting a losing battle there but technically they're correct. They are Americans. Some are Central Americans, some are South Americans and even Mexico is part of North America.
So, maybe Reid stuck his foot in his mouth. Big surprise there. But I don't see how that's worth you and Michelle getting all snarky.
Really, am I missing something?
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 11:09 AM (kxecL)
2
David, where are you from? Not a border town or state, I presume. Or anywhere else with a large Latino population.
The next Mexican I meet here in Tejas who considers himself an "American" or "Central American" rather than a Mexican -- will be the first one.
Latinos are exceptionally proud of their national heritage. Try calling a Dominican a Puerto Rican. Or try calling an Ecuadorian a Mexican. Or try calling a Mexican a Cuban.
Posted by: Robbie at June 06, 2007 01:32 PM (foLp3)
3
Robbie,
I live in North Carolina now, but I lived and worked in Central America for two years. I made the mistake in Honduras once of using Americans referring to the US and an officer quickly corrected me. I never made that mistake again.
I don't know first-hand if Mexicans see themselves that way, but I do know that the people of Latin America do and can be quite prickly about it.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 02:02 PM (kxecL)
4
Sorry, that should have read "...the other people of Latin America..."
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 02:06 PM (kxecL)
5
David,
The reason I felt it was worthwhile pointing this out is I think it goes to Reid's mindset. He wants the bill passed because it legalizes the additional votes they need to get a "mandate" of their own.
I don't think it was Reid being politically correct. He, in my humble opinion, was speaking to nationality, not their continental birth places. By calling them "undocumented" Americans he's intentionally softening the tone. Much like the militants / insurgents vs. terrorists verbiage used in the media.
All in all, its a whole lot easier to generate sympathy for someone when you can relate to them, thus the "American" angle. Whereas if he'd called them what they are, illegal border crossing, identity thieving, benefit robbing criminals, well, he'd have a hard time justifying his stance on Amnesty.
Snark for the troop readiness might not be well deserved because, you know, we need to ensure Kansas and Louisiana aren't invaded and that their depleted guards reserves are there when the Governors mismanage emergency conditions.
For Medicare. What would our situation be if we weren't having to pay for hundreds of thousands of illegals abusing our health care system? Really, how many thousands of blood pressure pills could be bought with the money used to reimburse a hospital because an illegal immigrant waited until their cold was full on pneumonia?
For the oil dependence. Maybe if the Nancy wasn't flying all over hell and half of Georgia seven days a week I could buy the dems being serious on conservation.
For education. Well, we'll just end in song:
Tommorrow, Tommorrow...
Really David this isn't an attack on you. I'm just stating where I'm coming from. Pretty much I'm fed up with a majority of our politicians when it comes to border security and health care. If Mexico isn't going to be part of the solution then we need to start sending them a bill for the benefits their citizens are stealing.
Granted I haven't launched into an attack on a Republican lately. Mainly because the Dems have been making it easy for me and I'm lazy.
Posted by: phin at June 06, 2007 02:44 PM (CQcil)
6
phin,
I don't take your posts as attacks. No worries.
You're probably right in Reid's choice of language. I just thought this bit of spin was a small transgression in the larger scheme. Like shooting flies with a .45.
As for all those other issues, I'd love to debate them any time except right now.
It's the end of a long afternoon and I'm feeling a bit lazy, too. I never did shake the habit of siesta. Now if we could import that...
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 03:03 PM (kxecL)
7
Harry Reid’s voting record on immigration issues can be found at: Harry Reid’s Voting Record
Harry Reid’s history of speeches on immigration can be found at: Harry Reid’s Record of Speeches
Harry Reid’s ratings from special interest groups on immigration can be found at: Harry Reid’s Interest Group Ratings
For more information on Harry Reid’s position on immigration please visit Project Vote Smart or call our hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART.
Posted by: Project Vote Smart at June 06, 2007 04:31 PM (Z+KDc)
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June 05, 2007
The Republican Willie Horton
This is Michael Caldera De Latorre, or as fingerprints taken from when he was twice captured trying to sneak into the United States from Mexico in 2004 indicate,
Ricardo De Latorre.
He is one of the millions of undocumented illegal aliens George W. Bush and many Congressmen and Senators would like to grant amnesty.
Yesterday morning, while driving a Chevy Tahoe reported stolen in Charlotte, Latorre careened across the median of I-40 in Raleigh, and stuck a Kia driven by George Alwyin Smith, a 54-year-old computer programmer at Duke University, before slamming into a car driven by Carolyn Hageman.
Smith died in the wreck, and Hageman was injured. Pulled from the wreckage reeking of alcohol, De Latorre has been charged with DWI, felony death by motor vehicle, two counts of assault with a deadly weapon, no operator’s license and careless and reckless driving.
Perhaps if our federal government had done a better job securing our southern border, Latorre would still be in Mexico, and George Smith would still be alive. But our President, our Congress and our Senate seem primed to allow De Latorre and millions more illegals like him to slip across a border they refuse to defend.
As the Smith family suffers, the Senate is pushing an immigration bill that the Congressional Budget Office says will barely
make a dent in the number of illegal aliens flowing into our country.
When you look at Ricardo De Latorre's face, I want you to see John McCain. I want you to see George Bush. I want you to see the congressmen and Senators from both parties who want to bankrupt our nation with a continued flow of illegal aliens that fill our prisons and emergency rooms, that sap social programs and educational opportunities designs for native-borne Americans and legal immigrants while driving wages for low-skilled workers ever lower.
This is Ricardo de Latorre, a twice-caught illegal, apparent car thief, and drunken killer.
Until yesterday, President Bush and many RINOS wanted to grant him amnesty.
I wonder how they feel about that now.
Update: Dan Collins says via email that serial killer
Angel Resendez would probably be a better example of what our country's pathetic border security allows, and with nine alledged murders and at least
five deportations, and an unknown number of illegal borders crossings that likely numbered in the dozens, he makes a strong case.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:33 PM
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I was actually about to email you about this story. I am livid over it. This is where we live. Really brings the issue home.
Posted by: William Teach at June 05, 2007 05:36 PM (doAuV)
2
But Bush says it's not amnesty and he wouldn't lie, would he?
Posted by: steve sturm at June 05, 2007 06:53 PM (XBWtm)
3
Welcome back CY!
Anyways, this whole immigration bill nmakes me sick. I know most of the illegals are good people, but even if a small percentage are criminals or gang members, how many is it? One million? Maybe two? How many killers will become legal if this bill passes? Ridiculous.
Posted by: jbiccum at June 05, 2007 08:02 PM (Rd4s4)
4
I think I might have figured out Bush's recent alienation of conservatives. By bashing us, he is allowing the canidates to bash him. This has some benefits. They can get extra support from the Bush haters, without sounding disingenuous. Just a theory.
Posted by: jbiccum at June 05, 2007 08:51 PM (Rd4s4)
5
You 'know' most illegals are good people?
They've entered illegally and then committed document fraud or forgery. That's just for starters.
These are not the acts of 'good people'.
Posted by: Cindi at June 06, 2007 03:41 AM (asVsU)
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Osama Obama Goes Race-Baiting
Via
Breitbart:
Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Tuesday that the Bush administration has done nothing to defuse a "quiet riot" among blacks that threatens to erupt just as riots in Los Angeles did 15 years ago.
The first-term Illinois senator said that with black people from New Orleans and the Gulf Coast still displaced 20 months after Hurricane Katrina, frustration and resentments are building explosively as they did before the 1992 riots.
"This administration was colorblind in its incompetence," Obama said at a conference of black clergy, "but the poverty and the hopelessness was there long before the hurricane.
"All the hurricane did was to pull the curtain back for all the world to see," he said.
Apparently, though, the hurricane didn't pull the curtain back far enough for Obama to see the root of the problem.
If Obama wanted to
really expose the core of Louisiana's problems, he'd have to travel back in time no further than
yesterday, when William "Cold Cash" Jefferson was finally indicted. Jefferson's family runs political machines that funnel power and corruption through two Louisiana parishes.
Or if Obama wanted to go back a bit further, he could travel back to 1985, when three-time Louisiana governor
Edwin W. Edwards was indicted and later convicted for racketeering and fraud after being investigated by
nine previous grand juries.
From
Huey Long to
Leander Perez to the modern day political machines controlled by "Cold Cash" Jefferson and the Landrieu family, most of the problems of New Orleans can be traced back over a century of corrupt political machines in Louisiana.
The fact of the matter is that
all Louisiana voters should be on the verge of rioting for the way they have been treated by decades of corrupt politicians. The problem for Obama is that those politicians most to blame, black or white, are overwhelmingly Louisiana Democrats.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:51 PM
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CY, the "Osama" thing is beneath you. I'm surprised that you'd even bother with that.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 05, 2007 03:39 PM (nrafD)
2
I agree, the Obama Osama thing sounds like something a guy strung out on Oxycontin would say.
But I can't argue that Louisiana's been grossly mismanaged by Democrats for decades. Corruption seems to be their mother's milk.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 04:10 PM (kxecL)
3
"Osama" thing is beneath you.
You'll have to take that up with the guy who started it...can I refresh your memory as to who that might be?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2007 08:51 PM (Sr5ZD)
4
You can refresh my memory if you'd like, Avenger; I don't know who started it. Whoever it was, however, is really immaterial. My experience is that CY has generally kept himself apart from the spittle-flecked, namecalling herd. That's one of the reasons I keep coming back here.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 05, 2007 09:37 PM (U89Kd)
5
I don't know who started it.
Ted Kennedy.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2007 09:47 PM (Sr5ZD)
6
It appears Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), a frontrunner for the Democrat Party presidential nomination, has stolen a page from the campaign playbook of Segolene Royal, the French Socialist Party candidate who lost the French presidential election to Nicolas Sarkozy early last month.
In a Bob McCarty Writes™ post May 4, I reported that operatives of Senator Obama and his chief rival, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.), would be paying close attention to the results of the presidential election in France. A day later, I wrote and published a post about Royal’s warning to her countrymen — or, as she would say, “country-persons” — only 48 hours before election day that violence would erupt in the streets of France if she lost. And it did.
Now, according to an Associated Press report, Obama tossed out words like “Katrina” and “Rodney King” before accusing President George W. Bush of doing nothing to defuse a “quiet riot” among blacks that threatens to erupt just as riots in Los Angeles did 15 years ago.
Sounds like a threat to me. Moreover, it sounds like he’s targeting the same segment of the Democrat Party base at which people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton tend to direct their oft-divisive, race-bating efforts, such as “No Justice, No Peace!” Worst of all, it sounds as if he’s hoping those targeted will actually resort to violence so that he — Obama — can try to lay the blame for the social unrest at the feet of Bush and, more importantly, his Republican opponent in the 2008 general election.
If I was Senator Clinton, I would be eating this up, satisfied that the junior senator from Illinois had blown his chance and, in so doing, improved hers.
Posted by: Bob at June 05, 2007 10:49 PM (tHPUe)
7
Primary source:
Many of the folks in this room know just where they were when the riot in Los Angeles started and tragedy struck the corner of Florence and Normandy. And most of the ministers here know that those riots didn't erupt over night; there had been a "quiet riot" building up in Los Angeles and across this country for years.
If you had gone to any street corner in Chicago or Baton Rouge or Hampton -- you would have found the same young men and women without hope, without miracles, and without a sense of destiny other than life on the edge -- the edge of the law, the edge of the economy, the edge of family structures and communities.
Those "quiet riots" that take place every day are born from the same place as the fires and the destruction and the police decked out in riot gear and the deaths. They happen when a sense of disconnect settles in and hope dissipates. Despair takes hold and young people all across this country look at the way the world is and believe that things are never going to get any better. You tell yourself, my school will always be second rate. You tell yourself, there will never be a good job waiting for me to excel at. You tell yourself, I will never be able to afford a place that I can be proud of and call my home. That despair quietly simmers and makes it impossible to build strong communities and neighborhoods. And then one afternoon a jury says, "Not guilty" -- or a hurricane hits New Orleans -- and that despair is revealed for the world to see.
Not all what the AP characterized, is it. More of a "We've got to give people hope for a better future," kind of a message; "get folks to believe in the system and make the system work" thing, rather than race-baiting. You don't have to agree with the message, but Obama is clearly not race baiting - the AP is race baiting you.
Posted by: DanF at June 06, 2007 09:09 AM (Zd5uc)
8
First, why is he bashing Bush? Bush's own base hates him and agrees that he is totally incompetient.
Now to Louisiana. I live here and at one time lived in NO. For as long as I can remember, the Democratic party has kept a segment of NO in the stone age. They have thrown any welfare program they can think of at these people except the type that would allow them to advance. The reason for this is that they would keep them in certain neighborhoods that they could control and thus have a ready pool of voters. By their control of the 9th ward alone, they were able to shift any state wide vote that they desired. The danger came when the 9th ward and the various project were flooded. Now people were unleashed that you can not imagine. I know these people as I work at the charity hospitals. They see nothing wrong with murder or taking anything they desire. As long as they were confined to their areas, the politicians were very happy with the status quo. This is one of the major reasons that the cops left NO and no one would go in for relief work. The other reasons have to do with the incompetient mayor and governor that we have then one of the worse presidents in history. Notice that Mississippi was hurt worse than NO and has pretty much the same race mix yet they are recovering.
You might ask, why don't we change? The reason is that we can't. The politicians have a lock on segments of our population and promise them favors for thier votes. Thus only criminals are in our state and many of the city governments. If Jindal can keep his mouth shut about abortion this time, he might have a shot at the governor. But that is one small victory.
Basically what is wrong with the Black population today is racism. But not the type of the 50's. This time it is the racism of blacks against whites and anything else in our culture that would necessitate their getting ahead on their own. NO is not rebuilt for the very reason that blacks will not get up off there rears and go clean the neighborhood, their own house or repair a thing. We send church groups to houses of people that could easily do the repair of their homes themselves yet refuse to do so. During the hurricane one phrase that was screamed out in despiration sticks with me--"who is going to take care of us now?"
Posted by: David Caskey,MD at June 06, 2007 11:33 AM (G5i3t)
9
Should anyone be surprised Obama is just another race hustler? Does anyone remember that his campaign used court documents of a sealed divorce case to discredit his opponent? Can anyone imagine what would have happened had a conservative uttered anything like this?
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at June 10, 2007 05:18 PM (A2ZNt)
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The War Lovers
Experts continue to state that anti-war politicians will spill more blood, not less, in the Middle East.
For months, professional journalists, combat soldiers, defense experts, intelligence analysts, regional governments, and bloggers have been warning about the consequences of the disastrous retreat from Iraqi being orchestrated by the radicalized left wing of the Democratic Party.
Writing in WSJ's OpinionJournal today, Dan Senor
ties it all together, showing through the words of experts that the precipitous headlong retreat favored by so many Democrats will only result in American combat forces returning to the region in greater numbers and facing a far more bloody and destabilized Middle East dubbed "Iraq Plus."
Consider Brent Scowcroft, dean of the Realist School, who openly opposed the war from the outset and was a lead skeptic of the president's democracy-building agenda. In a recent Financial Times interview, he succinctly summed up the implication of withdrawal: "The costs of staying are visible; the costs of getting out are almost never discussed. If we get out before Iraq is stable, the entire Middle East region might start to resemble Iraq today. Getting out is not a solution."
And here is retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, former Centcom Commander and a vociferous critic of the what he sees as the administration's naive and one-sided policy in Iraq and the broader Middle East: "When we are in Iraq we are in many ways containing the violence. If we back off we give it more room to breathe, and it may metastasize in some way and become a regional problem. We don't have to be there at the same force level, but it is a five- to seven-year process to get any reasonable stability in Iraq."
A number of Iraq's Sunni Arab neighbors also opposed the war as well as the U.S. push for liberalizing the region's authoritarian governments. Yet they now backchannel the same two priorities to Washington: Do not let Iran acquire nukes, and do not withdraw from Iraq.
A senior Gulf Cooperation Council official told me that "If America leaves Iraq, America will have to return. Soon. It will not be a clean break. It will not be a permanent goodbye. And by the time America returns, we will have all been drawn in. America will have to stabilize more than just Iraq. The warfare will have spread to other countries, governments will be overthrown. America's military is barely holding on in Iraq today. How will it stabilize 'Iraq Plus'?" (Iraq Plus is the term that some leaders in Arab capitals use to describe the region following a U.S. withdrawal.)
Among the people on Iraqi soil cited by Senor is NY
Times Bureau Chief John Burns, who has made comments equating an American pullout with the onset of a regional conflict and
violence without limits.
CNN's Michael Ware and Kyra Phillips have echoed similar sentiments, saying a U.S. pullout "
would be a disaster."
U.S. secretary of Defense Robert Gates is
even more blunt:
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Wednesday warned that limiting troops' activities in Iraq and withdrawing from Baghdad could lead to "ethnic cleansing" in the capital and elsewhere in the country.
Gates' comment followed a proposal from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to end most spending on the Iraq war in 2008, limiting it to targeted operations against al Qaeda, training for Iraqi troops and U.S. force protection.
"One real possibility is if we abandon some of these areas and withdraw into the countryside or whatever to do these targeted missions that you could have a fairly significant ethnic cleansing inside Baghdad and in Iraq more broadly," Gates said.
The general premises of anti-war groups is that they wants a U.S. military pullout in Iraq seem based upon the following primary arguments:
- There were no WMDs/the reasons for the War were a lie (the playground mentality "I want a 'do-over'" argument).
- The U.S. military is causing tremendous civilian casualties in Iraq (the "remove the babykillers and the bloodshed will stop" argument).
- Leaving American troops in Iraq without a firm withdrawal date with only allow the various factions to continue fighting without coming to a political solution (the "they're all savages until we disappear and they’ll be forced to negotiate with each other" argument).
- The various Sunni, Shia and Kurdish factions are going to slaughter each other anyway, so why place American troops in the middle where they can be killed as well (the "they're all savages, let them die/kill each other" argument)
Obviously, there are variations of those major themes, but those are their general arguments.
The common failure of all of these arguments is the purposeful refusal to recognize what many (if not most) experts think will happen in the wake of the arbitrary and precipitous U.S. withdrawal, which are those predictions of a much wider regional war, a phenomenal increase in civilian casualties, the possible attempted genocide of some factions, and the re-entry of the U.S. military into the same region under far worse conditions and the threat of far greater casualties.
Anti-war politicians claim that they want to stop the war in Iraq, but the policies to which they subscribe are akin to throwing water on a grease fire. They would spread the flames of war, and create far more deaths.
Anti-war? No, it is a far wider war they will cause.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:26 PM
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See, this is why I'm not a Democrat.
I'm still against this war, but not for any of the reasons given. If you can stand it one more time, this is why we should pull out, and this is the opinion of a minority of one:
If we're not going to commit ourselves to this fight - and by that I mean more troops, raise taxes and be honest about how much it will cost and how long we'll be there - then don't do this half-a**ed. I don't want any American to be killed because this administration doesn't trust us enough to do what needs to be done and tell us the truth.
And as blithely as you curse the Democrats, don't forget to put the initial blame where it belongs - on the Bush administration. They screwed up the war and the occupation so badly that there are no decent alternatives. Everything looks bad thanks to their criminal incompetence.
There's plenty of blood to go around.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 12:50 PM (kxecL)
2
David
I am not certain that the war was so screwed up, but certainly the occupation was fouled up from the beginning.
Hindsight being what it is (perfect, of course), setting up something more like Turkey's government might well have been much more feasible than trying to create a western-style democracy in a culture better suited to dark ages styles of government. Is it too late for that solution? I have no idea. I do know that any solution will have terrible aspects for Iraqis--which is too bad.
I am 100% in agreement that if we (the USA) are not willing to do what it takes to WIN this fight then we should pull out and let the savages kill each other all day long. Like Vietnam, where we also tried to fight a limited war, the killers in Iraq will just wait us out until we tire. Intead of doing what it takes to win --smashing the sources of money, personnel and weapons to the various factions in Iraq, putting enough troops in to quell the insurgency, jailing domestic traitors who publish classified information, executing unlawful combatants after vigorous interrorgation, etc.--we fight a politically correct war watched over by opponents to ensure that nothing effective is accomplished.
So maybe the Democrats are right; pull out now and let the bloodshed begin. Heck, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again. Blame the ethnic cleaning/genocide on Bush & co while hand-wringing in impotence. Let the self-interest of the Iraq government decide if they are to become an Iranian puppet or be a sovereign nation. Adhere to the old philosophy "give them what they (Iraqis and Democrats) want, good and hard".
Posted by: iconoclast at June 05, 2007 02:22 PM (TzLpv)
3
iconoclast,
There are no good answers here. None.
If we stay we'll be bled to death, our soldiers a target while we borrow more and more money from the Chinese.
If we leave we'll create a power vacuum that Iran will most likely fill after a lot of internal bloodshed.
It all sucks.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 02:47 PM (kxecL)
4
The left is never happy until fatalities are measured in the millions.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2007 02:51 PM (Sr5ZD)
5
PA
The "new" left (for those of us old enough to remember the old socialists) haven't enough consistency to be accused of such a sentiment. Besides power, the only overarching characteristic I can see to the entire spectrum is self-delusion and a sort of comic book/harlequin romance world philosophy. How else can one explain the support leftist feminists (yeah, redundant I know) give to islamic fundamentalists?
I have no idea whatsoever how to communicate with such people.
Posted by: iconoclast at June 05, 2007 03:38 PM (TzLpv)
6
David
Agree, it all sucks. So what do? It seems to me that predicating all future action on its benefit to the USA first and the Anglosphere second (with the rest of the world a distant third) makes the most sense to me.
Assume immiment withdrawal from Iraq, resulting ethnic cleansing, and increased Iranian influence over events in Iraq. Assume critical need to keep oil flowing to the West and fairly friendly governments in some parts of the ME. Assume continued acts of war by Iran against the USA and Israel. Assume continued growth of fanatic Islam in Europe, ME, and Asia.
What should be done? Accept gradual dhimmitude? lance the core of the cancer? wait out the storm? attempt to buy them off while corrupting them with our culture?
beats me. Maybe there never is an end to this--the fight for liberty and tolerance against tyranny and oppression. And we have to win all the wars, while they (the enemy) only has to win one.
I do think that Bush's sentiments were correct--democratic regimes are peaceful regimes, while totalitarian dictatorships are warlike, so start inserting democracy into these totalitarian countries. But he should have studied the USA (and MacArthur's) approach to Japan a lot more closely. But he did not.
Posted by: iconoclast at June 05, 2007 03:54 PM (TzLpv)
7
Here is my idea on the underlying problem we have had in Iraq. Bush has been trying to fight this war totally half assed, just like David says. On one hand he wants to stabilize Iraq, on the other he wants to please everyone. We need to fight to WIN! Mediocrity, in war, is a horrible thing. Our boys can kick ass like no other, lets let them do it.
Posted by: jbiccum at June 05, 2007 08:19 PM (Rd4s4)
8
I have no idea whatsoever how to communicate with such people.
Tasers and cattle prods.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2007 08:47 PM (Sr5ZD)
9
Now were MAKING PROGRESS
"The left is never happy until fatalities are measured in the millions."
YESS!!!!!! read it a second time and thikn it over fellas can you deny the TRUTH
"We need to fight to WIN!"
AGREED!!!
Posted by: Karl at June 06, 2007 12:04 AM (5zEhw)
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I am so sick of you ARMCHAIR PATTONS mouthing off about war. WAR WAR WAR. All you see is blood! War solves nothing.
WHere were the terrorists in IRaq before we got there? Nowhere! Iraq was a PEACEFUL nation
You want to fight tough guys? Join the ARMY
For now, we democrats are just waiting in the wings. AMERICA WANTS CHANGE!
And we're gonna get it soon! Just listen to our fearless and feisty leader PELOSI tellin' it like it is to SYRIA. She understands whats going on in the world! Why do they HATE us? Because of our POLICIES!!!
Posted by: KarlsJr at June 06, 2007 01:02 PM (KTgUG)
11
Karl: I can only imagine your post was a joke.
With regards to having a government the same as Turkey. You forget one thing. Ataturk brought Turkey kicking and screaming into the 20th century, and it took years. No outsider could have done it.
I would suggest that one of th major problems with the Iraq aftermath is that the Arabists took hold of the policy. Why else would they allow Sharia to be the law of the land.
The problem I have with the anti-war types is that most of them rely upon lies and deception to support their positions. Karl's post is a good example.
Posted by: davod at June 06, 2007 05:24 PM (RdotW)
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The Sliding War
According to professional media organizations and politicians, this is only factional fighting:
Hamas and Fatah forces fought a major gun battle on Tuesday in the Gaza Strip near the Karni commercial crossing, the most serious flare-up in factional fighting in two weeks.
An officer with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Presidential Guard said a "large number" of Hamas fighters attacked a key Presidential Guard position near the crossing, wounding at least one guard member.
The Presidential Guard officer said the Hamas fighters attempted to infiltrate the position but were pushed back by the Presidential Guard, a Fatah-dominated force which receives U.S. backing.
Hamas, which leads a Palestinian unity government with Abbas's Fatah faction, confirmed the nearly three-hour-long gun battle near Karni but said the Presidential Guard initiated the exchange.
According to
Global Security, there are five recognized criteria for a civil war:
civil war: A war between factions of the same country; there are
five criteria for international recognition of this status: the
contestants must control territory, have a functioning government,
enjoy some foreign recognition, have identifiable regular armed
forces, and engage in major military operations.
- Both Hamas and Fatah control territory.
- Both Hamas and Fatah have their own political organizations and function (dysfunction) as part of a recognized government.
- both enjoy some foreign recognition via support from governments such as ours (Fatah) and Iran (Hamas).
- both have identifiable and mostly uniformed armed forces.
- both have engaged and continue to engage in major military operations.
By this definition (and
others), the Palestinian Civil War in Gaza is clearly underway, and has been for some time.
A supermajority of the world media organizations refuse to recognize this conflict as the civil war that it is.
Instead, we consistently see accounts that the factions in Gaza are almost in, sliding into, on the brink of, and verging on being in a civil war, but they aren't there quite yet... and have been for over a year.
A few examples:
Abbas acts to halt slide into civil war in Gaza. The U.K.
Guardian, May 22, 2006.
Political Violence in Gaza Sparks Fears of Civil War.
NPR May 24, 2006.
Gaza sliding into civil war. The U.K.
Guardian, October 11, 2006.
Fighting in Gaza Sparks Fears of Civil War.
NPR December 17, 2006.
Gaza on brink of civil war as cleric is killed. The U.K.
Telegraph, January 8, 2007.
Gaza on brink of civil war. Canada.com, January 29, 2007.
The march toward civil war. The Boston
Globe via the
International Herald Tribune, February 12, 2007.
Gaza on brink of civil war. The (U.K.?)
Times via the
Australian, May 17, 2007.
A last chance to avert civil war in Palestine. The U.K.
Independent, June 5, 2007.
Abbas: Palestinians verging on civil war. Boston.com, June 5, 2007.
The war in Iraq is widely described in the world's professional media organizations as a "civil war," even though it clearly fails to satisfy the five criteria noted for international recognition as cited by Global Security above, having no formal armies, no functioning governments, nor major battles, instead revolving around kidnappings, bombing, and other random violence.
The Gaza Civil War, on the other hand, satisfies all five criteria for a civil war, and has met these criteria for roughly a year.
Why does the media refuse to recognize the conflict between Hamas and Fatah for the civil war that it is?
I have no easy answers for that question, but is a question that deserves an answer.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Why does the media refuse to recognize the conflict between Hamas and Fatah for the civil war that it is? Because the liberal media wants the two organizations to make kissy-face so everyone is happy.
Posted by: howard_coward at June 05, 2007 12:22 PM (VeZBn)
2
"Hamas, which leads a Palestinian unity government with Abbas's Fatah faction..."
Maybe they ought to look up the definition of "unity" too...
Posted by: Ignorance is Bliss at June 05, 2007 12:35 PM (qzCtA)
3
The meme is at least as old as Viet Nam. Indeed that conflict was a civil war by these criteria but it was not merely that, as it was also, I would say primarily, a proxy war between the US and Chinese/Russian communists. The domestic Left could and did nakedly support the other side. Even our home-baked nutcases have SOME difficulty cheering for jihad, though that reticence is eroding. In any event, simply because a conflict IS definable as a civil war does not mean that one victor is not legitimately preferable to another nor that outside intervention is taboo. After all, our own Revolution was first, a civil war. Viet Nam was a civil war that we COULD have and SHOULD have won, for the sake of the locals, ourselves and the world at large. Likewise Iraq. If Iran collapses into a civil war, I hope we have the courage and intelligence to intervene on the more liberal side, if such appears. But this vapid notion with, apparently, appeal on Left and Right seems to supercede that for the near future. To our detriment.
Posted by: megapotamus at June 05, 2007 12:37 PM (LF+qW)
4
The answer is: so as to give Hamas time to gain complete power so they can then turn on the US imperialistic proxy Israel, who in the media's eyes deserves a beating. Then no one will report that Iran has sent troops to the West Bank and Gaza. Once the attack on Israel proper begins and Israeli civilians are massacred after being overrun the world media will wring their hands and cry how did this happen?
Posted by: JCEE at June 05, 2007 12:50 PM (M0t7U)
5
JCEE.
No, they won't.
The reason for the battle of the title--is it a civil war or not--is the presumption that the US cannot win and thus should not be in somebody else's civil war. Therefore, the left wants to win the label fight, since, if it's a civil war in Iraq, we have to come home instantly.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at June 05, 2007 01:11 PM (aQg5A)
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Three Words: Can't. Blame. Bush.
Posted by: edh at June 05, 2007 01:37 PM (V+L+y)
7
If Iran collapses into a civil war, I hope we have the courage and intelligence to intervene...
I usually try not to characterize comments, but in this case I'll make an exception.
megapotamus,
This is one of the most bone-headed things I've read on this or any other blog.
If you want to unify Iranians against the US, that's how you do it. Right now we have a chance that more moderate, pro-west elements in Iran will win power over the mullahs. But if you want to put the boot to that chance, you've outlined the perfect way to do it.
In fact, that's so wrong that I suspect you might actually work for the Bush administration.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 02:11 PM (kxecL)
8
"Right now we have a chance that more moderate, pro-west elements in Iran will win power over the mullahs."
I've been hearing that for nearly 30 years now.
The problem with that statement is that for the past 30 years, its been the Mullahs that have controlled the schools and the textbooks and the media, not the more moderate pro-west elements. And what that means is that on the whole, Iran isn't becoming more moderate, but rather more radical. Sure, there is a wonderful remenent population of educated pro-Western middle class Iranians who are great people and who would make great allies if they are anything like the many exiles living outside of Iran. But if there is anything we have learned over the last 30 years, its that they have no real power. And, they are a vanishing minority, because the Mullahs control the memetic heights so thier children on the whole are slightly more radical than thier parents are each passing year. We see the same thing going on in Palestine. As soon as the terrorists gained control of the school system (with the help of our own dear Clinton), all near term hope of peace was lost.
So, in the exceedingly unlikely event that the pro-Western, rational, democratic, middle class faction finally does crack and fight back against the Mullahs, what do you propose? Letting that one last bastion of moderation in Iran get slaughtered, so Amadinejihad can have his vision of a pure Islamic state to martyr for Allah?
Posted by: celebrim at June 05, 2007 02:25 PM (Qnlt+)
9
Because the MSM are Bush deranged anti-semites. They hate America and they hate Jews and they hate Israel.
Posted by: Paul A'Barge at June 05, 2007 02:37 PM (T3gfS)
10
celebrim,
I don't know where you're getting your information, but what I'm reading says that things like satellite TV and the Internet are creating a pro-western faction among the best educated, the ones most likely to oppose the mullahs. The people are getting tired of the iron fist and, I hope, will change this government through politics rather than war and that takes time.
30 years? We're talking about a part of the world that still carries a grudge over things that happened in the Sixth Century.
30 years is a blink in time. We're still feeling the waves kicked off by installing the Shah. We have to start thinking longer term if we're going to prevail in the MidEast.
But if civil war broke out, the most idiotic thing we could do would be to intervene. I'm not saying we couldn't quietly support a group, but if we moved in militarily, it would do nothing but unite Iranians against us.
That's what I'm reading.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 02:39 PM (kxecL)
11
"I usually try not to characterize comments, but in this case I'll make an exception."
Ditto.
David Terrenoire,
Rad your own post, apply it to yourself, and try not to be a condescending, arrogant, holier-(and-more-intelligent-)than-thou, reading-the-lefty-talking-points know-it-all.
celebrim nailed it. "Right now" meaning "about the entire lifetime of the average person, or longer" is not a useful definition for most things, especially not political things.
Posted by: Deoxy at June 05, 2007 02:44 PM (THlKl)
12
I think the Iran question is quite obviously solving itself,with the inept, corrupt Mullahs driving it into the ground. If Ahamijade-whack-job doesn't manage to trigger an all out war over nukes, a bus strike or a spike in tomato prices will cause its downfall. Unfortunately it will mean a blood bath for the Iranians.
Posted by: gk at June 05, 2007 03:00 PM (ULKAN)
13
David
The people are getting tired of the iron fist and, I hope, will change this government through politics rather than war and that takes time.
That sentiment, while nice and very politically correct, has nothing to do with how "moderates" will regain power in Iran. The mullahs (and communists, etc., etc.) know that as long as they are willing to imprison/torture/kill dissidents (and their families) that the moderates will cringe/hide/emigrate. Unless the moderates are willing to fight to the death for that political power, they will never achieve it.
In the meantime, how long does the civilized world have to put up with acts of war by this regime? Another 30 years? 60 years?
And no, we are not feeling waves resulting from installation of the Shah--we are feeling waves resulting from abandoning him in favor of these dark ages fanatics currently running the country. Shall we wait long enough for them to get their nukes built and on their way to Israel? Europe? Russia? USA?
Posted by: iconoclast at June 05, 2007 03:01 PM (TzLpv)
14
...condescending, arrogant, holier-(and-more-intelligent-)than-thou, reading-the-lefty-talking-points know-it-all.
Anything specific you'd like me to address, Deoxy, or is calling me names the best all you want to do? Because I don't lose sleep over anonymous commenters on a blog not liking me.
Really, I'm OK with that.
(Now that was a condescending, arrogant post and I can do that all day if that's what you want. But if you'd rather talk about our policy in the MidEast, I'd much rather do that. Your call.)
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 03:03 PM (kxecL)
15
iconoclast,
When I was in college I knew Iranian students here who lived in fear of Savak, the Shah's secret police.
The Shah sowed the seeds of the revolution by brutally ruling Iran. The troubles in Iran did not begin in 1979.
But are you really proposing we go to war with Iran right now? Because the military has its hands full with a much smaller country. I don't think it's wise to make threats we can't back up.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 03:08 PM (kxecL)
16
"30 years is a blink in time. We're still feeling the waves kicked off by installing the Shah. We have to start thinking longer term if we're going to prevail in the MidEast."
I would suggest we think in terms of Half Lifes...
Posted by: Joel Mackey at June 05, 2007 03:53 PM (tGm4a)
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I would suggest we think in terms of Half Lifes...
Joel,
I love humor, the darker the better.
And that was mighty dark.
Thanks.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 04:00 PM (kxecL)
18
megapotomus, I have to register a slight clarification. A "revolution", while similar, is a distinctly different sort of animal from a "civil war". A civil war is fought between recognized factions of an existing government, each trying to achieve supremacy. A revolution is fought by an insurgency that has created its own opposition government.
Posted by: submandave at June 05, 2007 04:24 PM (lLS3Y)
19
David
But are you really proposing we go to war with Iran right now? Because the military has its hands full with a much smaller country. I don't think it's wise to make threats we can't back up.
As far as I see it, we are at war with them right now. Or at least they are at war with us while we are trying very hard to ignore that fact and have been doing so for a number of years.
I think the military has its hands full doing nation-building--opposed violently by Iran, of course. War is another matter. I am just an arm-chair general and, of course, my opinion is highly relevant (yeah, right). But as you pointed out on another thread, either we fight this entire war or we bail. Fighting the entire war means ending the war being waged against us by Iran.
But the USA won't wage that war until after another attack on our country. Maybe we are just hoping for a mutual assured destruction between Iran and Israel...
Posted by: iconoclast at June 05, 2007 04:42 PM (TzLpv)
20
It doesn't matter what all these real smart people think, those three Carrier Battle Groups are not in the Persian Gulf for suntans.
We can cry all we want to about not being able to go to war against Iran. Iran is at war with us. Iran has been at war with us, Iran will be at war with us. The quicker everyone becomes aware of this, the quicker the war will end.
The plan seems to be for the Democrats to get in the way all they can, let George Bush handle it and then screech loudly about what an awful guy he is.
Posted by: Peter at June 06, 2007 02:48 AM (A5s0y)
21
iconoclast and Peter,
I don't know how old either of you are, or if you've ever been in the service, but if either of you are under 30 I expect you to sign up and help relieve these guys in Iraq. Because those on their third and fourth tours are getting a little tired fighting these neocon wars for the rest of us.
No, this isn't a sarcastic chickenhawk taunt. I'm dead serious. If you think we're at war with Iran, go find the nearest recruiter because your country needs you.
And God help us if you're right.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 06:01 AM (tk0b2)
22
Mr. Darkearth, one derives by logic that you are proposing universal military service for the U.S. As a citizen, you want to insist certain people serve, specifically, it seems, people under 30 who speak in favor of responding militarily to the verbal and indirect war Iran is waging on us and on Israel. These persons to be drafted would be replacements for those who have volunteered for war fighting and who you say are getting a little tired fighting for the rest of us (your use of the word us here is strange here). Have I successfully expressed your idea? So one group of conservatives could rest while a non-volunteer force of other conservatives takes over the fighting for a while. As you say, you are dead serious that you want conservatives to involuntarily serve as war fighters because this is our war. The Iranian Islamists only wish to kill conservatives? But there are liberals in Israel as well as here, are there not? As a liberal, you derive nothing at all from the efforts of our military?
Posted by: Fred Beloit at June 06, 2007 09:22 AM (Z7x7c)
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Fred,
No where will you find the words liberal or conservative in what I wrote.
No, what I was suggesting is simple: If we decide to engage Iran militarily, we'll need many more troops than we have right now.
This is serious business. If you think we're in a mess in Iraq, that will look like a picnic compared to Iran. Iraq has 27 million people. Iran has 67 million people.
Right now we don't have enough soldiers. This is from the Weekly Standard:
"Analysts outside the government are increasingly in agreement: Researchers at conservative think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation call for larger ground forces, as do thinkers at centrist and liberal organizations ... We would urge an immediate expansion toward a 750,000-person [from 500,000] Army. In any case, the consensus for a larger Army is about as complete as it could be. Except within the administration."
This is without fighting in Iran. So, what I'm saying is that if you believe we're at war with Iran, and this is only a prelude to ground combat then as an American, left or right, if you're of sound body and capable of service, now would be a very good time to enlist.
I don't happen to think war with Iran is the right thing or inevitable, and I pray I'm right about this.
So no, this has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, left or right. You are completely misreading my call to service.
For me, this is a policy issue, not a partisan one. My original position, and one I still hold, is that change can happen within Iran without our intervention but if we do intervene it will accomplish nothing except unify the Iranians against us. War is a last resort and I don't think we're there yet.
If you believe differently, I can respect that, but if you're right many more men will be called than we have now. And that's inevitable.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 10:53 AM (kxecL)
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David, I think you completely misunderstand the essential nature of what I fear is a pending war with Iran. You seem to be operating on the premise that the conflict in Iran would necessarily mirror the conflict in Iraq, and nothing could be further from the truth.
While their support for JAM is certainly a thorn in our sides in Iraq, our primary beef with them is over their nuclear program. We have no intention, nor plans (to the best I can determine), nor need to involve the U.S. Army or Marine ground forces in any way whatsoever in confronting Iran.
Iran's nuclear targets (with the possible exception of personnel) are rigid, fixed targets. Iran's Air Force and air defenses are second if not third-rate.
If you've been watching our military deployments in the region, you'll note we have been slowly and significantly building up our air assets, and if our targetting is accurate, we should be able to destroy significant portions of their nuclear program, both above and below ground.
There are only two ways our ground-pounders will be involved as a result of an attack on Iran.
The first is if the Iranian's direct the JAM to attack American and British forces in Iraq. You may note the historical fact that while those battles can be quite intense, the are also typically very lopsided.
The conflict would not doubt create U.S. casualties, but it would also severely deplete the number of militia fighters available to al Sadr and other would be militia leaders.
There are some suggesting that Iran would launch an invasion of Iraq with their uniformed Army in retaliation for an attack on their nuclear facilities. Again, total U.S. air superiority would shred Iranian forces that have only the most basic of air defense systems, resulting in a huge loss of Iranian lives. The first Gulf War taught us what happens when a modern air force encounters mechanized infantry and armor without air defense. "Does the "Highway of Death" ring a bell?
I just happen to have posted in this here. There are going to be no winners in a war with Iran, the only question is who is going to be the biggest loser. I would prefer it to be Iran instead of us and our allies.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 06, 2007 11:36 AM (9y6qg)
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Bob,
I read your latest post and I don't have any reason to doubt your analysis except I think you've drastically underestimated US casualties if this thing goes to boil. But overall, I agree with what you've said.
It's what happens afterward that gives me pause. I have the same pain in my gut that I had in the run-up to Iraq. Not that we wouldn't win a military conflict but that the aftermath would be unmanageable (or mismanaged). I wish I had been wrong about that, but I wasn't.
Maybe my hesitation comes from my not trusting Bush. I'll be the first to admit that if he told me the sky was blue I'd have to go outside to check. Maybe that's where this feeling comes from, I don't know.
But I do know that if we unify a nation of 67 million people against us, things are going to get really bad really fast.
I know some who read this blog doubt my sincerity or maybe even my patriotism, and that's their right. But believe me when I say that I hope I'm wrong about this.
Still, there's that twist in my gut that tells me things will spin out of control a lot faster here than they did in Iraq and that both of us may be horribly mistaken. Because there's always that possibility, too.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 06, 2007 12:02 PM (kxecL)
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Hillary tries to convince us she isn't the devil...
...but we all know she'd burst into flames the minute a priest sprinkled her with holy water.
Faith saved her marriage
says Mrs. Clinton.
In a rare public discussion of her husband's infidelity, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said Monday that she probably could not have gotten through her marital troubles without relying on her faith in God.
Clinton stood by her actions in the aftermath of former President admission that he had an affair, including presumably her decision to stay in the marriage.
"I am very grateful that I had a grounding in faith that gave me the courage and the strength to do what I thought was right, regardless of what the world thought," Clinton said during a forum where the three leading Democratic presidential talked about faith and values.
"I'm not sure I would have gotten through it without my faith," she said in response to a question about how she dealt with the infidelity.
Knowing that she'll get to roast Billy Jeff over an open fire for all eternity probably helps to calm her nerves.
For some reason this story reminds me of a scene in
The Devil's Advocate where Al Pacino sticks his finger in a bowl of Holy Water and it starts boiling. Not sure why though. At least I think that's the movie.
Posted by: phin at
08:56 AM
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1
I saw the Wizard of Oz over the week-end and thought of Hillary: "I'm melting!"
Posted by: Retread at June 05, 2007 10:15 AM (P/AfD)
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Oh she is a person of faith alright... faith in Socialism.
Posted by: mockinbird at June 05, 2007 10:31 AM (6IfuX)
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Faith is her lesbo girfriends name.
Posted by: 1sttofight at June 05, 2007 11:34 AM (51r8a)
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Because as everyone should know, only conservatives have authentic faith in Christ, indeed they should be quick to question others faith and belittle it.
Sort of the same attitude certain followers of Islam have.
Posted by: Angryflower at June 05, 2007 05:56 PM (Bss6w)
5
I like how the reporter added "God" when Hillary never actually used the word, yet Bush was and is constantly hammered when he actually says, by name, where he places his faith.
Hillary has faith she can bullshit America into electing her President, and if Bubba does a little side work with an intern she doesn't mind as long as he makes sure the campaign dough keeps flowing.
Posted by: TC@LeatherPenguin at June 05, 2007 06:09 PM (pnY28)
6
Angryflower, it's the hammering of conservatives for being Christians by liberals that led to this post.
How many times have liberals tried to label President Bush or others a irrational for looking to God and their faith for help when making decisions?
And, um, I don't recall saying we should kill liberals. Honest, I love having you guys around, otherwise I'd only be able to poke fun of the kids in special ed classes.
Posted by: phin at June 05, 2007 07:03 PM (YgMQV)
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A Step Too Far?
I disagree with Adam Kokesh of Iraq Veterans Against the War, but I think I disagree with the Marine Corps decision to punish him even more:
A military panel recommended that an Iraq war veteran who wore his uniform during an anti-war protest should lose his honorable discharge status, brushing away his claims that he was exercising his right to free speech.
Marine Cpl. Adam Kokesh, a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, argued that since he removed his name tag and military emblems from his uniform, he did nothing wrong by participating in the March protest in Washington, D.C.
After a daylong hearing Monday, a three-person Marine board recommended he receive a general discharge under honorable conditions, one step below an honorable discharge. It would let Kokesh keep all of his benefits.
Kokesh had already been discharged from active duty and is a member of the Individual Ready Reserve, completing his eight-year military obligations on June 18.
I'm sure that the Marine board knows far better whether or not Kokesh's decision to wear his MARPAT fatigues was technical violation, but as Kokesh did not wear his name tape or other identifying military insignia, I think they're pushing it when they decided to recommend removing the honorable discharge status he'd previously received.
I suspect if he was on active duty and reported without wearing his name tape and identifying rank and unit insignia, that he would be likely be judged "out of uniform." It therefore seems that a double standard may be in place here.
I'd be very interested in the opinions of any active-duty or veteran Marines on this. I don't agree with his politics, but that does not mean he should be held to a different standard, if indeed he is.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:32 AM
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1
You are wrong. His uniform had the globe and anchor signifying the Marine Corps. Name tag and unit does not matter.
Posted by: dan in michigan at June 05, 2007 08:55 AM (uSI6F)
2
Does this mean that we give up our free speech whenever we wear our old field jackets?
Sweet Jebus, I see grunt wannabes every day schlepping around Cary in camo. Is it just veterans who give up their rights forever?
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 09:13 AM (kxecL)
3
I am a veteran marine and ended my active duty back in '04, my end of active service is this October, I went to Iraq, the whole 9.
The "MARPAT" cammies he wore have the Eagle Globe and Anchor sewn in to the chest pocket. Not to mention there are very small Eagle Globe and Anchors mixed in with the pattern on the entire uniform.
Marine corps regulations do not allow him to wear his uniform at that type of event.
Posted by: Bodacious at June 05, 2007 09:26 AM (6/GLO)
4
Does this mean that we give up our free speech whenever we wear our old field jackets?
Sweet Jebus, I see grunt wannabes every day schlepping around Cary in camo. Is it just veterans who give up their rights forever?
Not forever, only until your contract is completed.
Posted by: Bodacious at June 05, 2007 09:30 AM (6/GLO)
5
Bodacious,
First, welcome home and thanks.
I have no doubt that you're right about regulations, but I wonder if he'd have received the same treatment if he'd been to a pro-Bush rally.
Call me a cynic, but I doubt it.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 09:33 AM (kxecL)
6
Thanks
I wore my old style cammies to a counter-protest once and no one said anything. But then again I live in a releatively small town and no one who cared probably never saw me.
I would be willing to bet you are correct though, however if somone was brought up on chrages for wearing a uniform while attending a pro war/bush rally I would support the charges.
Posted by: Bodacious at June 05, 2007 10:17 AM (6/GLO)
7
Maybe y'all missed this at RedState yesterday:
http://www.redstate.com/stories/blogosphere/yes_markos_you_can_be_prosecuted_for_it
Sorry for the URL. First time posting here, not sure if links are allowed.
Posted by: GISAP at June 05, 2007 11:11 AM (P9O5g)
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I give up.
http://tinyurl.com/2g7l5v
Posted by: GISAP at June 05, 2007 11:14 AM (P9O5g)
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Mr. Terrenoire- if he'd been at a pro-Bush rally, he would have probably been told to go home or change clothes.
Inactive Ready Reserve is under all the same regulations as active duty. He was not exercising his right to free speech because he was not speaking for himself-- by wearing that uniform while a member of the military, he was speaking FOR THE MILITARY.
The fact that he responded to a military investigation by cursing at the investigator, in text, shows that he's a moron. The fact that he also emailed obscenity to an even HIGHER officer who would oversee the investigation shows that he's trying to make a statement-- although, beyond "I am an idiot", I'm not sure what that would be.
My bet would be that he's yet another person who signed the paperwork for the IRR without even bothering to realize he's still in the military, legally speaking.
If I was these folks, I'd run a drug test. I give a 50% chance that he's been smoking pot. (Why do I say this? Because the sort of folks who will wear a uniform to a protest rally because they think the military can't touch them will usually do other things they couldn't do on active duty, ignoring the papers they signed acknowledging that the rules still apply.)
Posted by: Foxfier at June 05, 2007 11:17 AM (fMX2K)
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Foxfier and Bodacious,
Thank you for giving me some background. I do appreciate it.
As for FoxFier's point that this guy is most likely an idiot, I would have to agree.
But if being an idiot was grounds for a general discharge then ... oh forget it, the joke's too easy and you can probably guess where I was going.
To be honest, I'd support an Article 15, but taking away an honorable discharge seems a bit harsh for being an idiot.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 11:58 AM (kxecL)
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*chuckles* Yeah, I do see where the joke is going. *does NOT argue*
He was a Marine, so he signed the same papers I did when he got out. Technically, they should reactivate him, try him and punish him in that route. (They have enough to nail him very, very hard if the email information is true-- which I believe it is.)
That could go all the way to a couple of *years* in jail. I think they're taking this route to be politic. No matter how justified they would be, it would be spun as "Sent to jail for protesting war," not "sent to jail for violation of regulations, not cooperating, conduct unbecoming" and a dozen other things.
A Marine usually can't cuss out a high ranking officer for doing his job and walk away from it.
Posted by: Foxfier at June 05, 2007 12:14 PM (fMX2K)
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Not Having What It Takes
Combat journalist J.D. Johannes has decided he doesn't have what it takes to be a New York Times journalist.
Welcome to the club.
I leaned up against the humvee and cried in the parking lot of Fallujah Surgical.
I knew right then I was not cut out for this type of work.
It was even worse a few weeks later on a rainy night in Baghdad...
On Memorial Day a column ran in the NY Times (Not to see the Fallen is no Favor) about the rules for photographing an injured Soldier or Marine.
The author whined about how he had to seek permission from the wounded before using the photo.
The editors obviously thought this column was perfect for Memorial Day.
I disagree. The times I have been around injured Marines I pitched in to help. I ran to get the stretcher. The only photos I have taken of an injured person were of a Soldier treating an Iraqi man for shrapnel wounds. You see the soldier doing his job, but not the face of the Iraqi man.
If I were to be wounded while embeded with Soldiers, Seabees or Marines they would provide medical attention and likely risk their lives to protect me and save my life.
I feel I should reciprocate because these young men and a few women I roll with outside the wire would not stand around snapping photos of me while I bled out--they would do what they do best Save Lives.
I think I might be able to relate.
While I've never seen combat, I've been an inadvertent first responder to an accident while a nominal member of the media. I was working at the university newspaper when a student crossing the street in front of me was hit broadside as she attempted to cross against the light. She cartwheeled through the air and hit the asphalt face first in front of the concrete divider beside me.
I jumped out of my car, and started trying to provide first aid as well as I could, reassuring the injured student as best I could as I directing others to call 911 and check on the condition of the driver. It never occurred to me to try to snap pictures or start composing a story as this student lay on the ground, bleeding from her mouth. The only thought in my head was to do what I could to help a shocked, scared, and injured fellow human being.
If basic humanity has to come second to the job, perhaps I don't have what it takes to be a professional journalist, either.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Bob,
It's a common discussion among journalists that goes back, at least, to the self-immolation of the Buddhist monks in the early years of the Vietnam war.
Do you cover the story or do you do stop to help?
I couldn't keep rolling, which is one reason I'm no longer in the business.
But I tip my hat to those who can. It's a hard job and a necessary one if we're to live in a free country.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 09:22 AM (kxecL)
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June 04, 2007
Ironclad Senate Immigration Bill Will Slow Illegal Immigration by 75-Percent, Provide Hogs With Pilot Licenses
Or maybe I read that wrong.
The Senate's immigration bill will only reduce illegal immigration by about 25 percent a year, according to a new Congressional Budget Office report, Stephen Dinan will report Tuesday in The Washington Times.
The bill's new guest-worker program could lead to at least 500,000 more illegal immigrants within a decade, said the report from the CBO, which said in its official cost estimate that it assumes some future temporary workers will overstay their time in the plan, adding up to a half-million by 2017 and 1 million by 2027.
"We anticipate that many of those would remain in the United States illegally after their visas expire," CBO said of the guest-worker program, which would allow 200,000 new workers a year to rotate into the country.
Oh, so what the CBO is actually saying is that 75% of illegal alien traffic will
continue under the Senate's bill.
I'm glad to see they're on the job.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Yea, and that other 25% has simply been redefined as "legal". Same old, same old.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 04, 2007 09:05 PM (Sr5ZD)
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Hogs wearing lipstick. I'll add a link to my 2006.06.04 "No Illegal Left Behind" Roundup.
Posted by: Bill Faith at June 04, 2007 09:57 PM (n7SaI)
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If the CBO can analyze the immigration bill, I would hope that some senators (and representatives) could be bothered to at least READ the bill........
Posted by: SouthernRoots at June 04, 2007 11:34 PM (EsOdX)
4
Unfortunately, the federal government is once again in the process of dropping the ball. For that reason, it's incumbent that we elect local and state leaders who will crack down on businesses who employ illegals. I know that Fred Smith, who's announced he's running for governor of NC in 08, wants to put a stop to our state govt looking the other way on this. He's got my vote.
Posted by: Nathan Tabor at June 05, 2007 12:29 AM (EF0h3)
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Consider that when we make the original 20 million legal, they will fall under the restrictive labor and wage laws that we have and will lose their value to their employers. This will necessitate their firing and replacement with another 20 million who are not under the federal work laws. These restrictions are the real reason Americans can not work the jobs desired, not the fact that they are unwilling. We will then need another 20 million to replace the original group. The original group will move to our welfare roles and become good voting Democrats that will vote on command for programs that benefit them--redistribution of the wealth (Hillary's election platform). The next 20 million plus will have no deterrent to breaking our laws as we did not set an example with the first group and have indicated a lack of desire to be a lawful country.
We can elect as many politicans as you desire but they will all be the same as what we currently have in place. The answer, our country has become too big and powerful. It needs to be split into several sections so those groups of people can govern as they deem best for their area and values--sucession!!
Posted by: David Caskey,MD at June 05, 2007 07:49 AM (G5i3t)
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Too big and powerful? Our country hasn't grown in size in 50 years. That's older than our illegal immigration problem. The problem stems from an inadequate system (little border security), and a lack of willpower (leaders unwilling to enforce existing laws). Those seem like pretty concrete issues to me, and certainly don't require anything as drastic as dissolution of the United States.
Posted by: Nathan Tabor at June 07, 2007 01:54 AM (vefm8)
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It's a Slow News Day, so Why Not A Little Indignant Stupidity?
Many of us have heard the term "spearchucker" used as a racial slur against African-Americans, so when I saw via Memeorandum that Fox News anchor Brit Hume used the term, my immediate reaction was to cringe.
The context:
Hume: …he had a mixed record in the Senate and he's a man who always seems somewhat frustrated and bored by the Senate...I particularly remember an investigation that occurred after the Clinton/Dole campaign. We were new here at FOX news and we carried a lot of the hearings live. It was in the campaign finance alleged irregularities with monies supposedly seeping into the American political campaign of Bill Clinton from Chinese sources and so on—it was pretty juicy stuff it looked like a very big deal.
Fred Thompson was the chairman of the Investigating committee and it went absolutely nowhere. he was effectively buffaloed in that investigation by none other than John Glenn—who was a wonderful man, but not somebody normally you would think capable of being a real partisan..ahh…ahh.. spearchucker, who could, who could undo an investigation. So it didn't go very well and I think Fred Thompson has acknowledged since then that it wasn't his finest hour...
But how could
Crooks and Liars get all indignant considering the comment was directed at this guy?
To put it mildly, it seems a stretch, but
any chance to slur a conservative--especially one on the hated "Faux News" network--on even the flimsiest of grounds is a good one, isn't it?
John Amato, after making the weak case that Hume (an older white guy) was being a racist for calling Glenn (an even older white guy) a spearchucker, then goes on to provide the word Hume was must likely looking for all along, a spear-
carrier. That Hume was fumbling for the right term was obvious in the transcript that Amato provided (my bold this time):
...he was effectively buffaloed in that investigation by none other than John Glenn—who was a wonderful man, but not somebody normally you would think capable of being a real partisan ..ahh..ahh.. spearchucker, who could, who could undo an investigation.
Hume fumbled, and produced an embaressing slip, but a purposeful slur? I don't think so.
What
should be embarassing...but obviously won't be... is Amato's probable little "white lie" about why he wrote this entry to begin with.
I had to watch it a few times for it to sink in. I looked up "spearchucker," on Dictionary.com, but they didn't recognize it so I wonder how he will explain this one away?
Really, John? You had to
look up the term to know it was offensive?
If you didn't know it was offensive,
then why did you key in on it in the first place, instead of letting it waft by as the one of the dozens of idiomatic expressions one hears in an average week that most
normal people never bother to look up?
No, I suspect that Mr. Amato was well aware of what that slur meant all along, and that he was well aware of what it meant long before Brit Hume spoke it on Fox News.
What is far more likely is that Mr. Amato, as a representative of the politically correct progressive blogosphere, instead decided to play dumb and
act as if he had to look it up. Why?
Hume made a mistake, and grabbed the wrong term.
John Amato, on the other hand, acted as if he didn't know what "spearchucker" meant, when clearly he knew it was a slur all along, or he wouldn't have keyed in on it.
Here's another word for John Amato to look up: "honest."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
06:01 PM
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1
Really nice post, CY. But why did you expect better from Crooks and Liars?
Posted by: Dusty at June 04, 2007 06:36 PM (1Lzs1)
2
I think he meant bomb-thrower. Jeez, can we get back to the important stuff, like the cost of John Edwards' haircut?
Honest to God, if this is the way the campaign season is going to be, somebody should just shoot me now.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 04, 2007 07:15 PM (tk0b2)
3
Or maybe "water-carrier"?
Posted by: Jim Treacher at June 04, 2007 07:44 PM (0jtcT)
4
No biggie. It's like "macaca." He just invented it on the spot, and it just happens to be a racial slur. Honestly, these LIEberals are acting like a bunch of.....junglebunnies. Another invented word.
Posted by: jpe at June 04, 2007 08:38 PM (p/TE5)
5
David, as the compassionate conservative that I am, all I can say is "Stand up so I can take a better shot."
Posted by: Dusty at June 04, 2007 11:23 PM (GJLeQ)
6
I wonder if Brit Hume ever read the novel M*A*S*H:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spearchucker_Jones
Posted by: CKMacLeod at June 04, 2007 11:29 PM (dvksz)
7
LIEberals like john amato talk a good game but how many colored do you see sipping wine at the bistro the LIEberals are HIPPOCRITS
LIEberals like immigration cause it don't AFFECT THEM ANYWAY and keeps wages and thus prices cheap
do you read SHAKESPEARE while your sipping that fine wine Lefty????
Posted by: Karl at June 04, 2007 11:50 PM (+Z9xC)
8
Dusty,
All I ask is that you move in close and make it clean. With my luck you'd just put me in a hospital room with the TV permanently stuck on Fox News.
I don't think I could take another Bill Frist Video Diagnosis.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 07:33 AM (kxecL)
9
Bashing C&L must be fun for you guys, but Mr Amato doesn't seem so indignant to me. He is simply pointing out the gaffe--even making clear in the headline that it was aimed at John Glenn--and using it as a way to bring up past transgressions.
This is way short of the high dudgeon you guys get into over misidentified troops and other MSM malapropisms.
It does not, however, address Amato's real implication--scarcely driven home--that in slipping up Hume reverted to a very loaded characterization that may reflect his real attitudes. Freudian slip, anyone?
It might have been interesting to read a discussion among conservatives about whether people reveal supressed attitudes in this way, and if so whether it is important politically. Any of us is likely to spit out an insulting word or phrase in the heat of discussion (Blank you, Sen. Leahy!)--so why get all backed up about it, on either side?
Instead, commenters here sieze an opportunity to once again start in on the name-calling and accusations ("LIEberals," "HIPPOCRITS"). And in such a civil venue!
A bit of self-reflection might be in order here. You think attacking the MSM for silly slipups and editorial mistakes is fair game, but criticizing conservative mouthpieces for chewing on their size tens is out of bounds. Liberals here are accused of incivility for the slightest transgression, but ad hominen attacks on liberals seems a staple of the site.
You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at June 05, 2007 08:10 AM (mItUg)
10
Mr. Scott,
You have to learn to ignore the semi-literate rants.
The guy's either suffered a head wound, is developmentally disabled, or is an ESL student. Either way, it's best not to notice when he spews.
It's like pointing out when grandpa is incontinent. It's just not polite.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 05, 2007 09:28 AM (kxecL)
11
Wit well done. Kudos, David.
Posted by: Dusty at June 05, 2007 09:48 AM (GJLeQ)
12
I must live in the wrong part of the country, because I've never heard it used to describe anyone racially. I have heard it used in the "bomb-thrower" context, which seems to cover Sen. Glenn appropriately.
Posted by: Old_dawg at June 05, 2007 12:38 PM (mvlLy)
13
Mr. Terrenoire,
Yeah, yeah, I know. What happens on the short bus should perhaps stay on the short bus.
But if we let Grandpa take his incontinence public, it embarrasses the family and makes a mess that someone has to clean up.
There comes a time to tell the nurse that people notice the stench.
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at June 05, 2007 01:04 PM (fnBVi)
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2008 Race for the Whitehouse becomes an enzyte commercial...
Goose meet Gander, Gander this is Goose.
We know
Fred! likes the ladies, and the ladies like him. But I had no idea, none what-so-ever, that Denny Kucinich pull in the ladies like Fred!.

Meet Smiling Bob. His game?
Spreading the gospel of male enhancement.
Aren't you guys impressed, I mean, I could have gone the
Joe Scarborough route and inferred that she used to be a "lady of the evening". But no I choose the high road. Plus, nobody would believe I saw her turning tricks in exchange for carbon offsets behind the waffle house a couple of weeks back, nobody.
What his means? Since I'm kind of partial to redheads, Denny is now my sworn enemy.
h/t: Dave @
A Dark Planet.
Posted by: phin at
02:24 PM
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William Jefferson may get an extended vacation.
Maybe Paris can give him a couple of prison fashion and survival tips.
Via
Faux Nooz.
WASHINGTON — Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., was indicted Monday on 16 counts related to a long-running bribery investigation on counts including racketeering, obstruction of justice and conspiracy...
The 94-page indictment is more than an inch thick, and Jefferson could face a maximum prison term of more than 230 years.
I've heard of people doing anything to get a bit of a vacation, but this is ridiculous. Of course Not-So-Slick-Willie claims he's innocent.
Banks, they're for suckers, what with their interest bearing accounts and the easy access to cash with an ATM card. Me, I always keep my cash reserves in the Freezer right next to the toenail clippings. If Howard Hughes taught us anything its that the feds are going to clone us all one day and I'm not about to make it easy for them.
In grave times though, we have to fall back on the knowledge passed down from previous generations. Those who have paved the way before us. And so Mr. Jefferson, you'll need to build up your "street cred". "How to make a prison shank from toilet paper for dummies", it's easy reading with easy to follow diagrams. You could listen to 50 Cent (pronounced Fiddy-Cent yo), to pick up on the lingo. But most of all Mr. Jefferson, I'm imploring you'll need a mentor. I'd suggest you pick somebody with some notoriety. Like Tookie Williams. Sure he's taking a bit of a nap, but you should follow his lead, 'cause Tookie never "took it lying down", if you know what I mean.
So Mr. Jefferson, when you find yourself in one of those "sticky situations" don't be all uppity like
Joe Francis was. Ask yourself,
What Would Tookie Williams Do?

Really Mr. Jefferson, it's sound advice and don't be afraid to stick a shank in somebody's kidney on the first day of your visit to Club Fed. Otherwise, well, you'll find yourself singing
this little ditty.
Posted by: phin at
01:53 PM
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Hey, maybe he can room with Scooter, because anyone with that name is definitely going to need somebody to watch his back.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 04, 2007 02:28 PM (kxecL)
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Cold Cash Jefferson Formally Indicted
You remember William Jefferson, don't you? He's the Louisiana Congressional Democrat that hijacked a National Guard unit in New Orleans searching for Hurricane Katrina survivors so that he could check on his personal property... presumably including the $90,000 cash bribe hidden in his freezer.
His frozen chickens have finally
come home to roost:
Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., was indicted Monday on 16 counts related to a long-running bribery investigation on charges including bribery, racketeering, obstruction of justice and money laundering.
The indictment was handed up in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va. A press conference is scheduled for later Monday in Washington to discuss the case.
The 94-page indictment is more than an inch thick, and Jefferson could face a prison term of 235 years if he was convicted on all charges, and given the maximum sentence — although that is unlikely.
Jefferson was re-elected to office in 2006 despite widespread public knowledge of the investigation, proving once again the mental acuity of people who think it's a bright idea to live below sea level on sinking land surrounded by massive bodies of water.
Nancy Pelosi, chairwoman of the Most Ethical Congress
evah, could not be immediately be reached for comment.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:38 PM
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I don't know if the rest of the country is like Louisiana, but the fact that Jefferson was reelected does not suprise me. Down here, the voters are basically told who to vote for. The people doing the telling are usually preachers. They get the message from the Democratic leaders after being promised some form of kick back. The voters also take into consideration what the politician will give them in the form of give-back social programs that are basically stealing from others to give to this exclusive group.
Posted by: David Caskey,MD at June 05, 2007 08:00 AM (G5i3t)
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