Confederate Yankee
April 21, 2008
CCH Help (Last Time, I Swear)
So back on February 1, I solicited advice from you regarding a good CCH handgun, and after reading your responses, talking to various people I know offline, and hours of scouring the Web for scraps of information, I made a decision.
Well, that decision lasted all of about two minutes when I went to my local gun shop this past Friday afternoon and asked to owner to place my order. He asked a very simple question
"So, are you looking for an actual
carry pistol, or are you looking for something that will spend most of it's time in the car or at the range?"
I'd always planned on actually
carrying the weapon on my person where allowed, as a
concealed lawyer was impractical and of dubious value in the event of a crime. I said the same.
He asked earnestly, "Can I show you something?"
He went to the display case, pulled out a variant of the Glock 23 I was thinking of ordering, along with the XD-subcompact that was my second choice, and then proceeded to show me how thick the two guns were both across the slide and through the grip.
He went on to tell me that both pistols are extremely reliable, but because of their thickness, my body type, and personal style of dress in North Carolina's long summers (flip-flops, shorts, and tee shirts), they will be difficult for me to carry concealed.
He then pulled out a Kahr CW, which was one of the guns I'd been looking at in my
original list of possibilities. It was much,
much, more narrow, lighter, and generally far easier to hide than anything else on my list, though single-column magazines are more difficult to seat quickly.
As a larger alternative (but still not quite as thick as the Glock or XD), the Smith & Wesson M&P Compact has also been lurking in the background. Based in part on things I've read, the first-hand experiences I've heard from a local instructor who carries one, and the two free mags offered with a write-in $50 rebate, it is certainly attractive (and fits my hand well).
Being honest with myself, I think I'd like the XD and Glock better for range sessions and as a "car gun," but I also know that on quick runs to the grocery or drug store in the middle of the night, I'd be far more likely to grab a smaller, lighter, and more-easy-to-conceal pistol.
So what would you gun geeks recommend?
Should I go with the smaller, lighter, and easier to conceal Kahr CW-series, the Smith&Wesson M&P Compact, or should I go with the larger Glock or XD knowing I'm less likely it to carry it on more mundane trips?
Let me get your pros and cons on these, folks.
Later this week, one of these is coming home.
Update: or maybe not this week after all. I took my M1927 to a gunsmith to replace a broken extractor (it crapped out Saturday morning) and it's going to cost more than I thought to replace it, depleting my gun budget.
Meanwhile... Glenn Reynolds notes that University of Tennessee students are staging an empty holster protest of gun laws today as part of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:40 AM
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1
Go with the gun you will carry all the time. That one time you don't have it with you is the time you'll really need it. As to Kahr vs. S&W, go with the gun with which you feel most comfortable shooting. Although seating a thinner single column magazine may be a bit more difficult than a thicker double-stacked mag, chances are the first mag will contain enough rounds to get you by. Just practice reloading so you can do it in the dark.
Posted by: Laddy at April 21, 2008 10:26 AM (w9AT3)
2
I am with Laddy. Also go with the gun you can pull out fastest. There I have no recomendation as I do not carry a gun and target shoot with much larger guns.
Posted by: David at April 21, 2008 10:33 AM (cPLO6)
3
Skinnier is better. Muy muy. If you get six rds of 9 in a single, that's fine and dandy.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 21, 2008 11:20 AM (LF+qW)
4
I love my Glock 19. I carry always. If you are going to have a carry permit and not carry ask yourself how you will explain to God, to people who need you, to yourself, why you didn't have it when you needed it. Worse how are you going to explain that to the gunny or ex-cop who taught your class.
My instructor told my class that only one of his students had ever been killed in a gun fight. The instructor said that his initial reaction was to feel sorry for the guy but that changed to anger and resentment when he contemplated the fact that the last that guy's seven year old daughter saw of him alive was bleeding out at her feet because he left his weapon in his sock drawer.
I too live in the south and find the baggy square cut shirts we wear in the summer perfect for concealed carry. I use a belly band a lot. I do admit that I will not carry it chambered right next to Little Elvis but unless I am wearing my Galco holster it never is chambered. I have a seven year old and I know he cannot operate the slide, not that he has access to my weapon, but it is another level of safety. An instructor will tell you I am not really armed because I need to chamber a round before I can fire. Consequently when I practice dry fire I always include chambering a round. It costs me a second, not ideal, but there it is.
I have one weapon only and I always know where it is, on me. That way if somebody breaks into my house when we are not home I am not putting a gun on the street. I find my Glock a perfect all purpose weapon. A little fat that is true but that is 16 rounds talking. If I am going to the bads (I do business in Memphis)I take an extra mag but for every day I figure 16 should do 'er. Any pistol that is slimmer has fewer rounds in so you end up carrying a spare.
I am here to tell you a 19 is easily concealable. Just last week, my little friend in place, I had an extended conversation with a fellow parishoner in the vegetable aisle at Kroger. She expounded on how it made her quake with fear to THINK that there might actually be someone carrying a handgun RIGHT HERE IN THIS STORE ready to go CRAZY at any second fighting over a parking spot or whatnot. I wanted to tell her, no, carrying is actually as soothing as slipping into a Calgon bath but....
By the by I appreciate your work. B
Posted by: Buck at April 21, 2008 12:27 PM (Y2ycI)
5
The question answers itself. If you plan to carry most of the time, they go with the gun you'd ACTUALLY CARRY. An available derringer is better than the Glock in the gun cabinet.
Note. You can always sell your carry gun and buy a bigger one after you've had practical experience in carrying.
Posted by: Arthur at April 21, 2008 04:28 PM (eb9yU)
6
Go with the one that is comfortable to YOU, both on your hip and in your hand. Me? At 5'8 and 185 lbs., I carry a Springfield Armory Micro-Compact in .45ACP on the hip AND a KelTec P3AT (.380ACP) either in my front pocket or in a wallet-holster year round. Long-tailed shirts or oversized t-shirts in the summer, of course.
As far as the width of the pistol, the Micro-Compact with a set of thin Aluma-Grips makes a nice slim carry package.
Posted by: gtriever at April 21, 2008 04:38 PM (YyoVB)
7
As Clint Smith says, "Your carry gun should be comforting, not comfortable." If you're taking the responsibility of carrying, expect to make some wardrobe changes. That includes ditching the flip flops for something that will allow you to quickly get off the X: You're a combatant now. Congratulations.
The Kahr is fine, but don't think for a minute that you can't find ways of concealing any of the others so don't make that your major decision making item. Like the rest of us, you'll probably end up with a half dozen useless holsters before you find the right one or two for you, but we all go through that. There is a good holster maker in Raleigh.
Posted by: karlj at April 21, 2008 06:05 PM (DRWi+)
8
Why not both? Buy the one for the summer now and get the other one for heavier dress.
Posted by: Bodacious at April 21, 2008 08:21 PM (1GM4h)
9
Living in Texas, I also deal with the concealibility issue. Ultimately, you must make your choice in terms balancing a number of factors. Among them are the size and weight of the handgun, your usual clothing choices, accuracy and ammunition capacity in relation to size, and a host of others.
Suffice it to say that if you are planning on carrying your weapon--and if you're going to the effort of obtaining a CCW permit you should plan to carry it whenever you venture forth (it's not a fashion accessory--your life could be in danger anywhere at any time), you must work out a system that will allow you to do it consistently.
If you are planning on carrying in an inside the waistband-type holster inside shorts, covering the handgun with only a polo shirt or something similar, you will indeed be limited to a very small and thin handgun. And in that method of carry, rust is a very real issue as the weapon will be in close contact with your body. Potential solution: a weapon like the new Ruger .380 ACP polymer pistol. However, it has real drawbacks such as poor sights, small magazine capacity, and limited accuracy. Or, go for a stainless steel Walther PP. Very thin, very small, corrosion resistant, reasonably accurate with reasonable sights. Again, small magazine capacity. But the ultimate problem with guns in this size range is usually a weak cartridge and few of them. The .380 ACP that both weapons fire is the absolute smallest cartridge that one should consider for a carry gun. And if you're really that concerned by tenths of an inch in width, etc., you certainly will not be carrying a spare magazine or magazines, will you?
Yet you'd better. The magazine is almost always the potential weak link in a semiautomatic pistol. If the magazine malfunctions, you have a very clumsy and expensive single shot handgun. It is folly, no matter how expensive and realiable the handgun, not to carry at least one additional magazine for a semiautomatic pistol.
My solution may work for you. I carry a Glock 26 (9mm--10 round magazines) with two extra magazines, and I carry it virtually year round in a black nylon "fanny pack" holster system. I use the unit manufactured by Uncle Mike's which comes in several sizes, and has extra space for the mags and handgun and other goodies as well. With the fanny pack, clothing issues no longer matter, and I can carry a highly effective, reliable weapon that is still small and lightweight, yet is virtually corrosion proof, and has more than sufficient magazine capacity and power.
I've made two modifications, one to the fanny pack and one to the handgun. Using medium weight suede leather and my wife's good quality sewing machine, I made a mag pouch that allowed the mags to sit upright like a good belt holster pouch in the same velcroed pocket as the handgun. I sewed velcro to the back of the pouch, so it's easy to position. When I strip open the hangun pocket, spare mags are also available, but are held in place by the friction of the leather.
The second modification is a Crimson Trace laser sight. I'm 54 years old now, and while the Glock has good sights, and my eyesight is still reasonably good, it's not as sharp as it once was, and the laser is perhaps the best accuracy aid (to say nothing of training aid--you can see every flinch, jerk, bit of heeling, etc.) on the market. Yes, it made the gun a bit thicker, but in the fanny pack, it doesn't matter at all.
I was a bit worried initially that wearing a fanny pack would attract all kinds of attention, but they're so ubiquitous that it's never been an issue.
Get the Glock and go with a fanny pack. If you're going to be dressing more formally, you can always use an inside the belt holster or other concealment holster and carry a spare mag or two under your coat. The Glock is simply a better gun than any other you've mentioned. Resist the temptation to buy a wide variety of guns. Get the Glock and work consistently with it. The most dangerous man is the man who own a single gun; he probably knows how to use it well.
Posted by: MIke at April 21, 2008 11:02 PM (ewSYJ)
10
Dress to the gun. One of the realiziations about carrying armed is that life is not as it once was. Instead of flip flops, running shoes or boat shoes. Buy the next size bigger shirt, or square cut shirts. How the gun hides is more a function of the holster than the gun. A summer special type belt holster or a belly band will hide a medium size gun very well. Go with the gun you're most comfortable with and dress around it.
Posted by: Mike V. at April 22, 2008 01:09 PM (ecAVL)
11
I've found an easily-concealable (hip pocket, if you desire) pistol that carries 8 rounds of 9X18 leaded goodness that is also almost damnfoolproof. The Sovs and their satellites produced the Makarov as the standard sidearm for their military and I just plain like it. It's also DA/SA. YMMV.
Posted by: The Old Man at April 23, 2008 05:37 AM (NPzE8)
12
I recently got the Kahr CW-40 because of its small / narrow size and the 40 caliber bang. I added a stick on "Clipdraw" and and real happy with it. I can hide it under a tee shirt. Here is a picture with the Clipdraw:
http://home.comcast.net/~chiledogproductions/kahr-cw-40-CD.jpg
Posted by: RedDog at April 23, 2008 09:28 AM (nDcP0)
13
God, I love my Kahr. I'm a cynical old bastard and found it real difficult to admit that one of them thar newfangled gun companies could outdo S&W or Colt but Kahr has done it. Get the all-stainless one - it balances better than the part plastic ones (yeah, I hate Glocks too, sorry guys).
The Kahr is *accurate*, too - my most important criterion (and why I like Sigs, too) - a really important factor with a 9mm, particularly when dealing with a meth-soaked piece of human garbage. The Kahr DA trigger is amazing - I need to take one apart completely sometime to see how they did it.
As a side note... I gave my wife a choice of 4 or 5 goblin-getters, and after shooting them all she took my Kahr (damn her hide, I had to go get another one for myself...)
Posted by: Merinas van der Lubbe at April 24, 2008 01:35 AM (k9eRS)
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April 19, 2008
Happy Patriots Day
On this day in 1775, the minutemen first stood their ground and started a revolution. Jules Crittenden compiles a series of first-hand accounts in April Morning.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:00 AM
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April 18, 2008
Another Vet Snaps Under Pressure
As David Burge noted in Bylines of Brutality, the emotional toll on media veterans is becoming ever more pronounced, leading to all sorts of radicalized, anti-social, and occasionally violent behavior.
Today, another media victim has apparently cracked under the pressure in my own backyard. Well, not literally
my backyard,
but close:
Eric Ralph Watson, 34, of 201 Old Grove Lane in Apex, was charged with one count of secret peeping. He was arrested shortly after 6 a.m. in the Brittany Trace subdivision, about a mile from his home.
Apex Police Capt. Ann Stephens said a neighbor saw a man matching Watson's description Thursday afternoon on top of an air-conditioning unit peeping into the bathroom of a female neighbor.
The witness called police and alerted the residents who live at the house.
Early Friday morning, Stephens said, the woman's husband confronted a man believed to be Watson, who approached the house again. The husband called 911, and an Apex police officer arrested Watson nearby.
Stephens said Watson and the woman do not know each other but that they might have attended the same gym.
Watson, a reporter for NBC affiliate WNCN-TV in Raleigh, was released from police custody with a promise to appear in court.
Hopefully, one day, there will be a cure for such behavior. Until then, as long-time media observer
Treacher noted, it is important to treat journalists with not just revulsion and contempt, but with revulsion, contempt, and pity.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
But...but...but... he was just practicing his "Get that interview!" skills...
Posted by: Jeff at April 18, 2008 02:29 PM (yiMNP)
2
Hey! That's in MY backyard!
Gonna have to contact Mrs Stevens and see if they need a couple extra eyes ...
Posted by: Dan Irving at April 19, 2008 12:02 AM (Kw4jM)
3
When will this brutal, useless journalism end? When we will stop throwing our sons and daughters into its bloody maw? When will we stop destroying our international standing through this insidious, satanic campaign?
Mr. Bush, tear down the Columbia J school!
Posted by: Pablo at April 19, 2008 08:09 AM (yTndK)
4
Uh, Bob? Don't look now, but this is really becoming a quagmire.
CNN personality Richard Quest was busted in Central Park early yesterday with some drugs in his pocket, a rope around his neck that was tied to his genitals, and a sex toy in his boot, law-enforcement sources said.
Quest, 46, was arrested at around 3:40 a.m. after a cop spotted him and another man inside the park near 64th Street, a police source said.
Posted by: Pablo at April 19, 2008 11:06 AM (yTndK)
5
The quagmire that modern high stress media has become is clearly having a serious negative consequence on the poor reporters and commentators caught in this inhuman media machine. I blame Karl Rove.
Posted by: glenn at April 20, 2008 10:55 AM (zp+Xy)
6
When last seen, Watson was bitterly clinging to his notebook and press card ...
Posted by: Gary Rosen at April 20, 2008 02:51 PM (sHuCu)
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I think you ought to delete his address. It really shouldn't be in there.
Posted by: AYY at April 21, 2008 11:12 AM (zCpqK)
8
His address is part of the story quoted, and appears in the original text. Citing addresses of newsmakers is also part of standard journalistic practice in many news organizations.
It stays.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at April 21, 2008 11:53 AM (xNV2a)
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Stupidity and Terrorism
Bill Ayers, the man described as a casual friend of Barack Obama, who threw a fundraiser for Obama during his state senate campaign, who appeared with him at academic conferences, and who served as a board member under Obama's chairmanship of the liberal Woods Fund, refuses to admit that attempting to blow up soldiers and debutantes or other bombings as a leader of the Weather Underground were acts of terrorism:
"I've never advocated terrorism, never participated in it, never defended it. The U.S. government, by contrast, does it routinely and defends the use of it in its own cause consistently," he wrote.
Ayers defines terrorism as "the use or threat of random violence to intimidate, frighten, or coerce a population toward some political end," and he cites, as examples, "an Israeli assault on a neighborhood in Gaza," the Sept. 11 attacks, and "Sherman's March to the Sea" during the Civil War.
It is, of course, a purposefully false definition provided by an unrepentant terrorist.
Terrorism is premeditated, politically or ideologically motivated violence against civilians or military targets in non-military situations.
When the Israeli military launches raids into Gaza with the express intention of neutralizing Hamas (and in the past, Fatah) militants that continually bombard Israel with rocket fire, it is not terrorism. Israel's incursions and return fire into Gaza are purposeful strikes against specific targets of military value carried out with precision weapons only after the risk collateral damage have been evaluated and determined to be minimal.
The attacks of September 11, 2001 were conducted with the dual designs of attacking symbolic U.S. civilian targets and collapsing economic markets. al Qaeda succeeded in completing 3 of their 4 attacks, but failed their larger goal. These attacks were acts of terrorism, but like many acts of terrorism, were not random by any means.
Sherman's March to the Sea was conducted by Union soldiers with the goals of strategically, economically, and psychologically breaking the Confederacy. It was a sound strategic decision designed to end the war, and while brutal, it was hardly random, nor was it terrorism.
Some of the members of the Weather Underground are murderers and armed robbers, but
every bombing and attempted bombing committed by the Weather Underground and it's members were acts of terrorism, and therefore every member of the Weather Underground, including Bill Ayers, are terrorists. Period.
Barack Obama's campaign has
attempted to minimize the relationship between Obama and Ayers on the campaign's official site:
REALITY: OBAMA WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD WHEN THE WEATHERMEN WERE ACTIVE
Absolutely true, and utterly irrelevant. While Ayers has been forgiven by the ultra-liberal social circle in Chicago, Barack Obama knew
as an adult that Ayers was a terrorist, as his actions were well-documented, well known, and among some circles, celebrated. Barack Obama did not have to socialize with terrorist Bill Ayers, but he did.
REALITY: AYERS CONNECTION IS "PHONY," TENUOUS," "A STRETCH"
I don't think anyone has accused Obama and Ayers of an intimate love affair, but to deny that Ayers has served with Obama in various social settings over a number of years—which the candidate's web site attempts to minimize— is the same sort of typical disingenuous hackery we expect from run of the mill politicians, not someone who promises "change."
REALITY: AYERS COMMENTS WERE PUBLISHED ON SEPTEMBER 11; THE INTERVIEW OCCURRED PRIOR TO PUBLICATION
And Ayer's comments regretting his lack of successful terrorist activity prior to Sept. 11, 2001, is less reprehensible than they were afterward? Why? Simply because more people had a better of the kind of violent radicalism he represented after watching more successful terrorists kill almost 3,000 Americans in front of us on live television?
Bill Ayers is an aging terrorist who doesn't consider
his terrorism as
real terrorism. Barack Obama expects those of us outside of his ultra-liberal Chicago social circles to understand that spending time in homes, boardrooms, and in conferences with aging terrorists (Ayers is just one aging terrorist Obama knows) is simply the cost of doing business in Chicago politics.
I don't think my fellow Americans are that stupid, but Obama certainly seems to be betting his political future that they are.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
REALITY: DAVID DUKE HAD NOT YET BEEN BORN WHEN THE NAZIS WERE ACTIVELY SLAUGHTERING JEWS.
Now, imagine someone with similar ties to Duke trying to pooh pooh that relationship while running for POTUS. It would be the death of their campaign. And Duke, unlike Ayers, hasn't actually killed anyone.
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 10:14 AM (yTndK)
2
Perhaps I'm missing the point. What's Obama's crime here?
Posted by: Craig at April 18, 2008 11:09 AM (zN6Om)
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"What's Obama's crime here? "
No crime, just absurdly poor judgement. Given that he's trying to run on his judgement...
Posted by: Rob Crawford at April 18, 2008 11:12 AM (IuKAf)
4
I'm sure it is surprising to most of our citizens that such characters as Ayers and Dohrn and others like Solia, not only live openly and enjoy the normal benefits of this great land they did so much to harm, but prosper at the higher levels of academe. Hillary can't really say much since the Clinton Cabal did more than have coffee with splodeydopes of yesteryear... THEY GOT THEM OUT OF JAIL!
What a disgusting disgrace is the Democratic Party of the millenial era. The competition on the Left is to see who can more competently scrub their bio of support for domestic terrorism and it is nakedly declared that this is for the general election merely; apparently the Dem elites presume no significant Dem heartache at these revelations. The winner there is obliged to posture as a liar of lesser frequency and greater skill. Only then will the field be reduced to single combat. And then Barry (presumptively) you had better REALLY man up. For tactical reasons of her own Hillary hasn't even come CLOSE to throwing any chin-music here. She can't without exposing the Clinton record to scrutiny it cannot survive. McCain, whatever his many flaws will have to do little to contrast his own life of service to the feckless, self-righteous twerp they have dug up for this one.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 18, 2008 11:14 AM (LF+qW)
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No crime, except the ones committed by his associates.
And the poor judgement he displayed, and continues to display by his non-answers regarding them.
Apparently to you, Craig, no one should be looking at the company one keeps as an indicator of what one thinks.
You're wrong. People make their social groups from a deep seated need to be accepted in them. "Hey that guy thinks like I do! Let's be friends!"
If you think this doesn't happen, then you're a naive dolt and there's no discussing this with you.
Obama has continually surrounded himself with people that go against the very grain and fabric of this country and what it stands for.
And when he's called on it, he takes 4 months to put out some lame half baked reason why he continued to do so.
The only people buying his empty nonsense are the people carrying his water. You seem to be one of them.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at April 18, 2008 11:33 AM (M+Vfm)
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C_CBU-
Picking out people that think like me is not the way I make friends. If I did, I'd be bored and perpetually irritated. Sure, you have to be simpatico on some level, but it could be sports, sense of humor, whatever. People are more complex that you're allowing for. Also, people have associations with others that are not friendship-based, such as professional or civic, where the personal interactions are very shallow.
In view of the above, you seem to be way overstating the relationship between the two. I know it's important for you to imagine them speaking French, wearing berets, and making bombs together in Ayers' basement, but the *facts* don't support that close a connection.
As to going against the fabric of this country and what it stands for, the polls show him a little ahead of McCain. Maybe its McCain that is against the fabric of the country and what it stands for. Maybe you are against it. In reality, though, what the country stands for is different depending on who you ask, agree?
Posted by: Craig at April 18, 2008 11:55 AM (zN6Om)
7
Picking out people that think like me is not the way I make friends.
See, you're looking for friends, we're looking for a President.
Sure, you have to be simpatico on some level, but it could be sports, sense of humor, whatever.
I could use a new friend. I think I'll drop Charlie Manson a line. After all, we both like the Beatles.
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 12:03 PM (yTndK)
8
One more time, Craig:
Ayers, Wright, Rezko, Auchi, etc.--Obama has a list of shady associations that's rivaled only by the Cliton's rolodex during their time in the White House.
Does it not bother you at all that, in *every single case* he has sought to minimize, explain away, trivialize and poo-poo each and every one of these relationships? It's not like he's only been connected to one of these reprobates--he's in bed with *all* of them to one degree or another.
As everyone has said (and I posted yesterday on a similar thread) the man clearly has, at best, a spectacular lack of judgement (and that's really being generous and probably more fair than Obama deserves at this point)--at worst, he doesn't reallly give a damn and truly does believe the inane comments he made in San Francisco.
How you can keep coming on here and harping on the Ayers point when this is just the latest in a long list of villains is stunning to anyone with even an elementary grasp of the questions swirling around Obama and the company he keeps.
Posted by: ECM at April 18, 2008 12:16 PM (q3V+C)
9
You have to believe one of two things with the Obama/Ayers connection.
One, Obama really didn't know that Ayers is a terrorist when he served on the same BoD with him, had fundraisers in the man's home, and didn't for the entire time of this "tenuous" association look into who this "Upstanding member of Chicago politics" was.
Two, he knew who this person was, knew that he was a terrorist, and simply didn't give a damn what that relationship said about his choice in associations. Furthermore, when pressed about Ayers background, he gives a less than enthusiastic rejection of the man.
Seems Obama surrounds himself with people that are of at best dubious character, reluctantly distances himself when pressed, and defends them when he thinks no one's looking.
And no, I do not agree that what this country stands for, depends on who I ask. This country was not founded on polls, I know to you focus group loving liberals, that has to be a terrible thing to have said, but that's the way it is.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at April 18, 2008 12:35 PM (M+Vfm)
10
The key word I guess in the Ayers definiton is "random". If you know your target, you are not a terrorist, merely an assassin. The left wing radical universe left over from the sixties still has a few burnt out dark stars like Ayers drifting around. Obama was educated among academics who regarded people like Ayers as sort of folk heros. Now he moves in circles that feel their previous cimes are entirely forgivable, even to be admired. Obama's "crime" is that he is running for an office that should carry great moral weight. By allowing himself to be associated with men like Ayers, without any signal whatsoever that he may have regrets , he seems to diminish what the office should stand for. He must wise up, if he can.
Posted by: mytralman at April 18, 2008 12:50 PM (k+clE)
11
Part of why none of this gives me heartburn is that, having lived in Chicago, I know it's a fact that everyone in politics in Chicago is sketchy. You can't elected dog catcher without "associating" with some colorful characters and the odd anarchist. So even if you're a good, honest person, you won't get elected to anything if you don't have the blessing of all kinds of people that are on the take. That's Chicago, baby!
Posted by: Craig at April 18, 2008 01:36 PM (zN6Om)
12
America, thankfully, is not Chicago, baby.
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 01:44 PM (yTndK)
13
Craig, how about naming some more sketchy people in Chicago who bombed as many places the Weathermen did and then go on bragging about it. Lets be real, how many sketchy people in Chicago brag about taking kickbacks, extortion, murder and robbery .. lets hear it Craig.
Posted by: Rory at April 18, 2008 02:27 PM (HMGTw)
14
Blessings of all kinds of people huh?
Hamas, I guess, is all kinds of people too?
Posted by: Conservative CBU at April 18, 2008 02:35 PM (M+Vfm)
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Rory-
Obama was not in the Weathermen. Now breathe deeply and slowly until you're not purple anymore.
Posted by: Craig at April 18, 2008 02:37 PM (zN6Om)
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Craig - If you are so confident that all these sketchy people Obama has associated with and surrounded himself with are a nonissue for a presidential candidate, why are you so against having them discussed in public? Shouldn't other voters be allowed to come to the same conclusion which you have already reached? Why sweep the information and associations under a rug? Are you afraid of the reactions or is something else motivating you?
Posted by: daleyrocks at April 18, 2008 03:21 PM (0pZel)
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Daleyrocks-
I never said don't discuss it. I only said that it should be discussed with accuracy. Discuss from now till next year if you want.
Posted by: Craig at April 18, 2008 03:25 PM (zN6Om)
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Really, Craig? Shouldn't Obama be able to do away with all criticism of his political allies by adopting this as his new campaign song? It seems a perfect fit.
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 03:29 PM (yTndK)
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Craig - I'm sorry. I mistook your incessant whining about the unfair treatment of your candidate for something else. I apologize.
Posted by: daleyrocks at April 18, 2008 03:29 PM (0pZel)
20
"Part of why none of this gives me heartburn is that, having lived in Chicago, I know it's a fact that everyone in politics in Chicago is sketchy."
So what you're really saying is we'd be insane to elect ANYONE from Chicago politics to higher office?
Posted by: Rob Crawford at April 18, 2008 04:09 PM (Bpq+O)
21
Check this out. In the Chicago Tribune today, there is a story about how a rap artist and suspected criminal and thug managed to get a zoning variance to build a castle in a residential neighborhood the "Chicago Way". But better than that is the highly entertaining video that includes a flow chart of the political influence that made the variance possible. One of the politicians involved is known as Pastries. I kid you not. This is pure Chicago, people. Enjoy!
Posted by: Craig at April 18, 2008 04:37 PM (zN6Om)
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Craig, if McCain had been on a board of directors along with David Duke, would you say that it's a Bad Thing for the lefties to let the American people know that?
Posted by: C-C-G at April 18, 2008 06:20 PM (yDWgl)
23
If I knew that Barry was associated with Jeffrey Dahmer, I would certainly become interested in his cuisine. Barry seems to be associated with a bunch of people who serve up crap. What HAS Barry been eating?
Posted by: twolaneflash at April 18, 2008 09:55 PM (05dZx)
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Why did Craig change the subject all of a sudden?
Posted by: daleyrocks at April 19, 2008 12:04 AM (0pZel)
25
According to Craig if McCain hung around with someone who was bombing abortion clinics back in the 80's then that's just alright with him. Is anyone else stunned by the intellectual dishonesty displayed by the left?
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 19, 2008 06:46 AM (kNqJV)
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Is anyone else stunned by the intellectual dishonesty displayed by the left?
No.
There is only one core belief on the left: the raw thirst for power. Any and every other principle can and will be sacrificed on that particular altar.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 19, 2008 08:23 AM (yDWgl)
27
Didn't have time to read the comments --
---- but I heard on the radio yesterday that Ayers has gone underground again since the investigation into his connection with Obama has moved from conservative talk radio to the mainstreampress. If true, that would seem to indicate there is more to the Ayers connection than we've heard so far.
Posted by: usinkorea at April 19, 2008 09:36 AM (PLTs0)
28
Terrorism is premeditated, politically or ideologically motivated violence against civilians or military targets in non-military situations.
Where did this definition come from?
Posted by: hed at April 19, 2008 01:09 PM (DCFer)
29
Uh, Hed, if you'd look, up in the original article, where it first appears, the word "Terrorism" is a link, presumably to where the definition came from.
(sighs, shaking head sadly) And the left thinks they're the "intelligent" ones.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 19, 2008 01:30 PM (yDWgl)
30
Snobama is such an elitist idiot. Surrounding oneself with fellow travellers, communists, raving racists, terroristsdoesn't make one guilty of anything except very poor judgement and having fleas. As any criminal knows the terms of parole require you not associate with known criminals. Apparently Snobama loves to associate with those who hate America. Any doubts about how this reflects his own vision of America and the American people?
Any bets on what Craig and the other kool aid drinkers would be saying about any GOP politician who had the same relationships with abortion bombers, KKK recruiters, and Aryan Nation leaders?
The howling and braying about the last debate by the leftist trolls is due to the fact that they can't stand having their fearless leader asked to defend his association with so many slugs.
They still cling to their bitterness and failures.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at April 19, 2008 03:23 PM (LHaZf)
31
"Any doubts about how this reflects his own vision of America and the American people?"
Trent Lott's head was served on a platter because of legitimate questions were raised about what he meant when he said perhaps the US would be a better place today if Strom Thurmond had won the White House on his segregationist platform.
At least with Thurmond, he eventually moved away (partly) from his racist past - at least he gave that appearance and kept getting elected. Ayers is openly proud of his terrorist activities and wishes he'd done more.
The main point, however, is that Trent Lott's possible association with pro-segregationist thought was limited (as far as I heard) to one stupid thing he said in a speech, but the questions about what really sits in his heart were enough for the media and others to bury him.
But, I'm supposed to believe that Obama's much longer connection to Wright and Ayers and the like is so clearly a non-issue?
Right....
Posted by: usinkorea at April 19, 2008 04:15 PM (VusHn)
32
For all their highfalutin' rhetoric, the Party of the Donkey is still the party with the closer connection to the real racists... people like Robert Byrd (D-KKK), Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, and so on.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 19, 2008 04:30 PM (yDWgl)
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At PJM: Bilal Hussein Released
AP's Terror Operative Freed but Not Cleared.
Please spay or neuter your pet insurgents.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:07 AM
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1
You're absolutely right that the AP doesn't want the facts of this case aired. If they were on its side, they'd be looking for retribution and they'd be screaming from every rooftop about the awful US military squelching the truth and targeting journalists for mistreatment, and they'd be defending Hussein's innocence and clearing his name. Instead, we get this:
AP President Tom Curley expressed relief.
"In time we will celebrate Bilal's release. For now, we want him safe and united with his family. While we may never see eye to eye with the U.S. military over this case, it is time for all of us to move on," said Curley.
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 10:22 AM (yTndK)
2
Maybe he's going to hang out with his brother Jamil Hussein.
Sorry, I forgot. Jamil Hussein's a pseudonym the AP still hasn't fessed up to using for someone reporting fake stories in Iraq.
Nevermind
Posted by: daleyrocks at April 18, 2008 03:26 PM (0pZel)
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April 17, 2008
Dear Senator Obama
Let me pass along a wee little bit of advice regarding equivalence.
There is
no equivalence between your friend of many years William Ayers, his terrorist group's killing of police officers during an armored car robbery, their craven targeting of a non-commissioned officers dance (think Army prom) and other bombings they conducted for "peace," and your attempt to make those terrorist murders equivalent to Senator Coburn's hypothetical statement about a legal interpretation.
In your attempt at moral equivalence, you try to make actual murders and attempted murders the same as hyperbole.
Of course, it's all "just words" in a grand game, isn't it?
Perhaps Ayers—whom you try to
explain away as "a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago"—can better explain what these words may mean to others the next time you attend a political fundraiser in his home.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Craig:
"Again, why the need to streeeeeeeeetch the truth beyond all recognition to make Obama look like a terrorist?"
Do you know something we don't know?
And if the man did indeed attent a fundraiser "at his home" (something I hadn't heard before) don't you think that tends to imply more than just a purely casual connection? I mean, it's not as if Ayers is exactly your run-of-the-mill, leftist, college prof, is he?
I mean, don't you think it's possible that if you're attending an event in the home of someone with, charitably, a notorious past, it might be, at the very least, politically tone deaf (unless, as some suggest, Obabma really doesn't think consorting with people like Ayers--who would be shut away forever if he did what he did today--is a bad thing...which would be a very bad thing for someone with aspirations to the Presidency).
The problem is that Obama tries to minimize/sweep away *every* single instance where he's associated with a litany of dubious characters as "oh, well, I didn't know..." or "uh, you know, it was only that one time..." which all sound a lot like "I did not sleep with that woman" after excuse #87 which, incidentally, is the point the OP is obviously making.
Posted by: ECM at April 17, 2008 03:33 PM (q3V+C)
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[original comment deleted by mistake: repost -CY]
CY-
Again, why the need to streeeeeeeeetch the truth beyond all recognition to make Obama look like a terrorist? Fox News Fact Check does not agree that Obama is as chummy with Ayers as you clearly insinuate: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/17/fact-check-obamas-relationship-with-william-ayers/
Reading your post, however, one would think Obama was defending his fishing buddy ("friend of many years" in your words). Maybe, CY, just maybe, Obama is telling the truth. And maybe you can try to be more accurate in your characterizations of the facts as they are, not as you wish them to be.
To circle back, Obama's point was NOT that both Ayers and Cobern's positions or actions are equivalent. Rather, his point was that knowing and associating with someone does not mean you condone that person's every action and adopt their views. It is thus unfair for you to suggest equivalence between Obama and Ayers based on what appears to be a very casual connection. By that standard, McCain and Hagee-the-Catholic-Hater share the same worldview since McCain considers him a friend. See? Not fair, is it?
Bottom line is this: there are lots of arguments you can form using actual facts without resorting to blatant overstatements and fabrications.
Posted by: Craig at April 17, 2008 03:35 PM (HcgFD)
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Off topic, but can someone please tell me how to embed a link? For example, if I want the word "cheaters" to link to www.newenglandpatriots.com, how is this done? If you can provide guidance, please email me on the side. Thanks.
Posted by: Craig at April 17, 2008 03:47 PM (zN6Om)
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"Bottom line is this: there are lots of arguments you can form using actual facts without resorting to blatant overstatements and fabrications."
Good point, maybe you can get Obama and Clinton to start doing so.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at April 17, 2008 04:14 PM (M+Vfm)
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The difference, among many, is that Ayers committed violent crimes... yes, terror in fact. It is unfortunate that the skanks he was associated with at the time merely blew themselves up and left Ayers breathing but that is, of course, far preferable to a few dozen dead debutantes; the stated goal for this piece of shit. Obama lays down with dogs. His Coburn statement is reprehensible and claims that he is anything other than a work colleague are unsupported. As usual Barry has just pulled something from the air. Coburn of course holds a place on the Left that Ayers holds for the Right. Coburn claimed his obloquy from defending babies from murder. Ayers, by murdering. Barry will have no luck claiming equivalence outside the Dem primaries; a loony bin at best, a hive of treason and stupidity generally. Claims that all these associations have no bearing fall down for one reason; if this was just random noise why does it always cut in the anti-American direction? This is a nation of freedom and prosperity. Obama gonna Change all that.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 17, 2008 05:42 PM (LF+qW)
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All a matter of point of view. In the inverted lefty world in which Obama moves, his reaching out to Tom Coburn in that manner proves Obama is generous and open-minded, almost too tolerant. After all, to the liberal-left crowd in south Chicago and the liberal enclave of Hyde Park, where Obama resides, Senator Coburn is a dangerous hick from a gun-toting hick state and to equate him with Bill Ayers elevates Coburn.
Posted by: Zhombre at April 17, 2008 06:01 PM (SRZ4E)
7
Craig, Obama and Ayers sat on the same board of directors, for the Woods Fund.
Please name for me the board(s) where both McCain and Hagee sat together.
I anticipate an echoing silence.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 17, 2008 06:46 PM (yDWgl)
8
Oh, one more thing, Craig... name the terrorist that hosted a campaign event in his own private home for Senator McCain, like Ayers did for Obama during the latter's run for the Illinois State Senate.
And the tender mercies of the Viet Cong in the "Hanoi Hilton" don't count.
It's no wonder Obama is trying to spin this one furiously. What is worthy of wonder is the fact that Obama apparently never even realized this would be a problem. Talk about out of touch!
Posted by: C-C-G at April 17, 2008 07:29 PM (yDWgl)
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C-C-G:
You're correct, I can't name any "terrorists" that hosted a McCain fundraiser. But if I went back through all the fundraisers McCain has attended, you don't think I'd pull out a few beauts?
I don't know about you, but I've been to a few fundraisers in connection with my job (i.e. unwillingly), and they go something like this. People are mustered to attend, then the candidate arrives and talks to his/her entourage and a couple select attendees for a few minutes, and the attendees pretend like the candidate is just THE funniest and smartest person ever. Then s/he is introduced by a fawning host, and the candidate tells the attendees that s/he can't do it without their money. A few questions are asked, and non-substantive answers are given. The candidate leaves very shortly thereafter never having really met anyone there because that was just one of 2 or 3 on the schedule for that night in a busy season of begging for money. Maybe you and others have seen something different, but my experience has been that candidate barely interacts with the people hosting and attending the fundraisers, and rarely stays more than 45 min or an hour tops.
So based on a fundraiser where the host (Ayers) gave a whopping $200, I wouldn't read much into it. Also, I don't know about you, but I needed Hillary Clinton to educate me as to who that dude is/was, so it's also possible Obama didn't know he was anything more than a professor.
Is Obama really trying to spin this furiously? You are, and Hillary is, but Obama took it head on to say it's not right to suggest that he holds Ayers' views just because he knows the man. Think about what kind of psycho would live their life studiously avoiding people with wacko views JUST SO THEY COULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT. What kind of life would that be? I have really good friends all over the political map, and some with pretty hardcore righty and lefty views. It makes me a more well-rounded person if I can be friends with them and still be my own man. People aren't vessels that fill up with the thoughts and ideas of everyone they meet, so you should consider how fair it is to ascribe Ayers' views to Obama by association. Think about it.
Posted by: Craig at April 17, 2008 08:04 PM (zN6Om)
Posted by: brando at April 17, 2008 08:28 PM (rDQC9)
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Craig, this isn't about a fundraiser where Ayers gave money. This is about an event (it may have been a fundraiser, it may not have been, the only term I've seen for it was "event") that was hosted by Ayers at Ayers' own home!
Of course, you tried your darnedest to skip over that part, because that puts a whole new light on it. The problem (for you, at least) is that I ain't gonna let you pass it by.
And your attempt doesn't even get a "nice try." It was pathetic, in fact.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 17, 2008 08:53 PM (yDWgl)
12
C-C-G:
Wow, tough crowd. You know, I depend on you for positive reinforcement since you're so free with the "nice tries." I won't lie to you, I'm hurt. Now I'm over it.
So, I don't know you, but I'm guessing by the emphasis you put on it that the fundraiser being in the guy's home strikes you as a big deal. That is, it significant for you to invite a someone into your home, or for you to be invited into someone else's home, as opposed to a neutral place. Take it from me that there's very little that's intimate or personal about a "home" fundraiser, and the social dynamic I described above is exactly the same. The whole shebang is really way more about the host's narcissism, trying to appear to his/her friends and co-workers that they are important, than about mind-melding with the candidate. The candidate does the same brief jawboning with the host, then "I can't do it without your support ($$$)" mini-stump-speech, then limited Q&A, then little more chit chat with the host, then gone to the next one.
Posted by: Craig at April 17, 2008 09:18 PM (zN6Om)
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Craig, your political naivete is showing clearly.
You really have no idea how the real world works, do you?
That's probably why you're an Obamapologist.
Anyway, here's a question for you... if, say, Rush Limbaugh hosted an event (you keep using the term fundraiser, which may or not be correct--showing that you have no idea of the difference--a fundraiser is an event, but not all events are fundraisers) for McCain, would the lefties jump all over it?
Silly question, of course they would.
However, since you've demonstrated on several occasions that you're absolutely clueless about the very topic you're trying to sound like an expert on, I doubt if I'll ever treat you like an intelligent person again. In short, I don't deal with phonies well.
Go back to DU where your "expertise" won't be questioned.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 17, 2008 09:28 PM (yDWgl)
14
Well ok, C-C-G, I tried to address the issues you raised in a straightforward manner. You, on the other hand, appear to be drinking tonight. We can try again another time perhaps. Party on.
Posted by: Craig at April 17, 2008 09:40 PM (zN6Om)
15
Once again, you attempt to appear wise, and fall flat on your face. I do not drink, my family has a history of substance abuse problems, so I avoid it.
You haven't tried to address anything in a straightforward manner, you can't even get it through your head that an event isn't necessarily a fundraiser. You admitted you had no idea who William Ayres is, though it's been well documented online, and you can't seem to grasp the significance of the choice of venue for a political event.
In short, you're just another mind-numbed robot of the left; your own comments above illustrate that wonderfully... I never once mentioned money or contributions, and only referred to fundraisers in a futile attempt to educate you about the difference between an event and a fundraiser... yet you keep trying to drag money and contributions in. Why is that? Because you can't comprehend what I am really getting at, so you keep talking about irrelevant things.
Like I said before, go back to DU, you'll fit in quite well there.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 17, 2008 09:55 PM (yDWgl)
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What do Barrack Obama and Osama bin Laden have in common? They both have friends who bombed the Pentagon. *bad-a-bing*
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 18, 2008 02:59 AM (kNqJV)
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Just a point of fairness, McCain's associations aren't being held against him either:
father-in-law Jim Hensley - Convicted felon for bookmaking & bootlegging for the mob and hired McCain for VP of PR
Charles Keating, Jr. - Convicted felon for S&L collapse. Chuck was a huge financial contributer to McCain and of course McCain was caught up in the Keating 5 stuff.
Fife Symington III - Gov of Arizona, convicted of extortion and pardoned by Clinton.
John Kerry - nuff said!
Some of them, you can't help such as who your father-in-law is but then you don't also have to take a job with said convict-in-law as his PR guy.
None of these people are terrorists but if associations with terrorists are a means of defining Obama, shouldn't associating with extortionists, defrauders, traitors, and those convicted of mob activities also defined McCain?
Posted by: matta at April 18, 2008 06:43 AM (F+fRS)
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Left out of this converstaion is the reason Obama's predecessor took Obama to the event.
Ayers and his wife were luminaries in the community. The liberals looked up to them.
Posted by: davod at April 18, 2008 06:44 AM (llh3A)
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This back and forth with the supporter of Sen. Obama, of course...misses the point, by a mile.
If we choose to ignore the continuing "friendly" relationship (based upon the description given by Sen. Obama's own campaign)that existed prior to today, what continues to confound...is how Sen. Obama parses the going forward relationship with men and women of distinctly violent, virulent, noxious anti-American sentiment.
As the patchwork quilt pattern of Sen. Obama's worldview comes into focus, his penchant for surrounding himself with lunatic fringe, violence inspired, radical, leftists....socialists, communists, maoists, Nation of Islam separationists,....it becomes crystallized that this is no accident of fate.
What Sen. Obama's apologists suggest for public consumption (I suspect behind closed doors, the conversation is quite different...whether on Billionaire's Row in SF or in Berkeley or Haight-Ashbury)...is that these mere "happenstance" relationships are a "distraction".
Please forgive me, but "Frank" was not mere "happenstance". He was a strong imprint upon young fatherless Barack and his CPUSA antagonism toward America and American values being imbued into Sen. Obama seems to have played out as young Barack evolves from college to young adulthood and even today.
Please forgive me, but the pathway imprinted by "Frank" the CPUSA member...continues to be traversed when Barack seeks out his most radical professors. His imprint from "Frank" draws radical fringe ideals to college student Barack...like a magnet.
Barack, after graduation...has a burning desire to connect with the "Dreams" of his father. His father, of course, is a virulent anti-America, anti-West, socialist...who has died...and young Barack looks for a mentor in his life and finds Rev. Wright.
Rev. Wright is a virulent, bombastic, flame-throwing anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti-white disciple of Louis Farrakhan. He teaches Farrakhanisms through the veil of Christianity...filtered through the theo-politics of the Marxist inspired black liberation theology.
For 20 years, Sen. Obama embraces Rev. Wright, intimately and tightly to his breast...as a guiding light and quite possibly yet another "father figure", who continues the pathway set by "Frank", on a course that Sen. Obama has never wavered from.
Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn are not some bizarre disconnect from this pathway...when viewed in light of the very consistent pattern in which Sen. Obama has affirmatively sought out and embraced the most demonstrably aggressive anti-American sentiments throughout his entire life.
He seems to be channeling his father's antipathy and seeking to embrace him beyond the grave and to somehow recapture all those missing days of absence and abandonment. He is giving a hug to haters of America. He is drawn to them.
It is in this light that we now can witness and comprehend the discomfort of wearing a flag pin on his lapel. Being that overtly pro-America is a disappointment to "Frank", to his radical college professors, to Rev. Wright, to Farrakhan, to his father's memory...to the Kos Kidz who form his base. The hate and blame crowd doesn't go for "jingoism" in the form of...well, actually loving the country.
(you can force yourself to accept a pin from a disabled vet, who works for "other disabled vets", because disability is an emblem for the anti-war crowd, they use it as a tool to pretend they care about the healthy troops)
It also becomes clear why Sen. Obama puts his hands figuratively "in his pockets" when the Pledge or National Anthem is played. He can't bring himself to exhibit Pro-America behaviors, that is a betrayal of his entire imprinted "being". His closest "father figures", Frank, Jeremiah, Louis, Barack Sr...would not approve.
It is in this context that we must view how Ayers and Sen. Obama have interwoven a relationship that is "friendly" and how Sen. Obama winds up at the man's house and as a fellow board member.
This is the inner circle in which Sen. Obama travels. The fact that he says that Bill Ayers was a murderer 40 years ago, as if the crime against police, the government, the military has been erased by time...is consistent with the sympathy for which he carries and has always carried the torch for violent, virulent, radical anti-Americanism.
This plays just fine for the radical left. This is swept under the rug by the regular left. But it won't play in Peoria. Nor should it.
Posted by: cfbleachers at April 18, 2008 07:27 AM (bL8P9)
20
Matta, everyone knows about the Keating 5. You're trying to equate McCains problems of more than 2 decades ago to what Obama is doing today? Really??? At least McCain apologized over 20 years ago for his actions, Obama is still very much involved with Reverend Wright and the terrorist Ayers. How does something so irrelevant even pop into someones mind? I mean, even far left wing fanatical nut jobs aren't that intellectually vacant are they?
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 18, 2008 08:29 AM (kNqJV)
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@Capitalist - I've forgotten the witty reparte that exists on this site. Please keep up the silly stereotyping, it just shows the weakness of your argument. Politicians don't apologize for their actions, they apologize for getting caught.
To answer your question, I DID NOT compare the acts but rather said that if associations are going to define Obama then the same should apply to McCain. It may have happened 20 years ago but that means McCain was still in his late 40's/early 50's when he made his choices of whom to associate with which is roughly in the same ballpark as Obama today. I think its completely fair to judge someone for office based on the choices they make and the company they keep. Its just that all candidates should be viewed through that same view point and held accountable for it.
Posted by: matta at April 18, 2008 09:44 AM (F+fRS)
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father-in-law Jim Hensley - Convicted felon for bookmaking & bootlegging for the mob
Wrong. Hensley was charged with falsifying liquor records and received a 6 month suspended sentence. He was never charged with either bookmaking or bootlegging.
Fife Symington III - Gov of Arizona, convicted of extortion and pardoned by Clinton.
Wrong. His conviction was overturned and therefore, legally speaking, never happened, and he was never convicted of extortion in any sense. He was convicted for fraud. Furthermore, McCain couldn't have been expected to know of Symington's legal troubles (real estate fraud) before everyone else did, so you can't argue that he was willingly and knowingly associating with a criminal. The same holds for Keating. As Obama notes, Ayers was breaking things and killing people when Obama was 8. the association was long after those things became common knowledge.
Lastly, are you telling us that John Kerry is a traitor? Beacuse, you know...
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 10:40 AM (yTndK)
23
I think its completely fair to judge someone for office based on the choices they make and the company they keep.
I do too. And as I just demonstrated, that concern doesn't apply to McCain in regard to the people you've mentioned, unless you'd like to suggest that he should have rejected his wife and her family because of her father's conviction for falsifying records, which is just like bombing government buildings... It does apply to Obama, however.
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 10:43 AM (yTndK)
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Yes, it is the joy of adhering to principles that one does not fear a fair standard. By all means, get McCain's associations out there in the public mind. As long as the characters involved and the terms of the relationship are accurately portrayed there is little doubt that McCain will emerge the superior candidate on the "character" issue, at least as personal associations define it. The contest will be held out in the open. That is one thing the Democrats cannot afford.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 18, 2008 11:23 AM (LF+qW)
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@Pablo - Last I checked, a suspended sentence still means they found him guilty, right? When someone falisifies liquor records what do you think they are doing? Saying the got more liquor or less? I'd say less. Then what do they do with that unreported liquor? Keep it? sell it? probably. Maybe its just regional differences here but to me bootlegging is the illegal selling of liquor. They didn't catch him doing that (like with Al Capone being caught for taxes, not for running the mob) but I doubt he was personally consuming it.
I don't think he should reject his wife, at least not his second wife. He did reject his first one (before someone gets all hot and bothered over this, he married his second wife a month and a half after divorcing his first one). He shouldn't reject his second wife or family however, he should be judged for deciding to go work for his felon-in-law as his PR rep.
as far as Symington goes, you are right, he was convicted on bank fraud, I apologize for the mis-characterization. Keating was convicted of bankruptcy fraud as well.
As far as Kerry goes, comments on this blog have mostly been in the nature of vile and evil things to say so I would think his good friendship with McCain would mean something to those that dispise Kerry...
Posted by: matta at April 18, 2008 02:59 PM (F+fRS)
26
Last I checked, a suspended sentence still means they found him guilty, right?
Of falsifying records. Not bootlegging or bookmaking. The bootlegging claim is false. And your guesses are just that - guesses. Except that they're also silly. If you want to assert facts, find them.
He shouldn't reject his second wife or family however, he should be judged for deciding to go work for his felon-in-law as his PR rep.
Then by all means, get out there and make that case. I'll going ahead and start the laughing at you. This will be awesome, I'm sure.
as far as Symington goes, you are right, he was convicted on bank fraud, I apologize for the mis-characterization.
Legally, no, as the conviction was overturned. He had no convictions on his record. And again, as with Keating, you'd have to show that McCain was aware of any wrongdoing while associating with either of them in order to equate them with Obama. For instance, Obama knew Rezko was under investigation and in bed with Nadhmi Auchi when they pulled the shady house deal together.
So, you've got McCain's FIL. What else?
Posted by: Pablo at April 18, 2008 03:41 PM (yTndK)
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Ahh, yes... let's see... McCain and Keating. Then we have Obama and Rezko, whose trial is ongoing. And Hillary... where to start with Hillary... Whitewater, the White House Travel Office, that $100,000 she "made" in a single deal (I honestly forget if it was stock trading or commodity trading, though I think it was commodity).
If it's fair to bring these things out about McCain, then quitcherbellyaching about them coming out about Obama and Hillary.
Personally, I think McCain is no conservative (I've been known to call him McRINO), and have never really supported him, nor do I truly support him now... I may still end up writing in Charlie Brown for POTUS. However, as deeply flawed as McCain is, Obama and Hillary are far far worse, so if the lefties wanna try the old compare-and-contrast thing, I say bring it on.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 18, 2008 06:26 PM (yDWgl)
28
Thanks for proving my point matta, got anything current? Like in the past 20 years? These left wing fanatics are desperate
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 19, 2008 06:38 AM (kNqJV)
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I love the left! When they can't reason logivcally or advance coherent arguments supported by evidence their opponents are drunk. So drunk that they make people like Craig look like ignorant 13 year old cellar dwellers who learned about politics on the Daily Show. On the other hand you have Matta who equates the Keating scandal with Ayers, Wright, and all the other Communists Snobama cherishes.
Seems to me that McCain skated on the Keating scandal, although Snobama is knee deep in Chicago politics and corruption. I suppose we are to take Ayers action as the equivalent of McCain's behavior in POW camps. Perhaps in the fever swamps of Amherst and the Bay area but not where real Americans live and work.
I am not sure about other people but I have nothing but contempt for someone who makes 4 million annually and then attacks the US and associates with those who damn it. By the way I wonder if Matta and Craig have any Grey Poupon?
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at April 19, 2008 03:33 PM (LHaZf)
30
matta, you're missing (intentionally?) the really simple point: was McCain associating with Symington once aware of his legal problems? If not, your comparison fails.
Posted by: Pablo at April 21, 2008 02:59 PM (yTndK)
31
BTW, on what basis are you diagnosing my "hatred of the left"?
Posted by: Pablo at April 21, 2008 03:00 PM (yTndK)
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Shameful? He Oughta Know
So Editor & Publisher/Huffington Post luminary (in the something-burning-in-a-bag sense) Greg Mitchell thinks that last night's Democratic debate—one where the moderators asked the questions real people have been buzzing over, in as much as they care about politics—was A Shameful Night for the U.S. Media:
In perhaps the most embarrassing performance by the media in a major presidential debate in years, ABC News hosts Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos focused mainly on trivial issues as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama faced off in Philadelphia. They, and their network, should hang their collective heads in shame.
You should listen. When it comes to shameful behavior in the media, Mitchell is an expert.
This is the same man who urged the media to
help overthrown the government, who admitted to simply making up stories at the beginning of his career, and who
attempted to rewrite his way out of that inconvenient truth when it became embarrassing.
Of course, Greg Mitchell is a
newscrafter and partisan advocate, not a journalist, so perhaps it is unsurprising that he would take Gibson and Stephanopoulos to task for asking difficult questions that reflect poorly upon his chosen candidate.
Asking Democrats hard questions?
Shameful.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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"... luminary (in the something-burning-in-a-bag sense)"
ROFL, Bob!!!
=)
Posted by: Bill Smith at April 17, 2008 12:51 PM (+lPnm)
2
What people like Mr. Mitchell don't understand is that by softballing Democratic candidates they really aren't doing them any favors. In this internet world someone is going to ask the tough questions and the candidates better (no matter who they are) better be ready to answer them. On second thought maybe Mitchell isn't smart enough to figure this out for himself. Hope he doesn't read this blog.
Posted by: glenn at April 17, 2008 05:37 PM (zp+Xy)
3
There is a firestorm of discontent today, as there almost always is, when the "in the bag" MetaStasisMedia forgets their "place" and actually asks an objective question or two.
This drove the Koz Kidz into an eye-bulging, spittle flecked fury, (which is not that long a trip, admittedly...probably not beyond the end of the driveway), but it's always fascinating to witness the witless in one of their tantrum seizures when someone brushes up against the cocoon and sends them buzzing into the stratosphere, stinger first...looking for any exposed skin to lance with their tiny little empty scabbards flapping in the breeze.
So George and Charlie forgot to bring enough powderpuff questions Greg Mitchell left his big boy pants at home and found a way for it all to be shameful. Horrific. Monsterous. Why, it was...was...was...positively ROVIAN!
The "in the bag for us media" asked Sen Obama about his relationship with a smarmy, smirking murdering domestic terrorist, a racist, anti-Semitic mentor and spiritual advisor and the fact that HE made a show of taking off the lapel flag pin and putting it on. Please pardon me, but hitch up your Huggies, Greg...they not only should have asked those questions, they should have followed up with some after Sen. Obama fumbled the anwswer.
The Che Guevara poster, the Ayers & Dorhn friendship, the Rev. Wright 20 year embrace, (see also Rev. Meeks, Rev. Moss, Father Pfleger) the hands in the pockets for the Pledge and the National Anthem, the mentoring by "Frank" the CPUSA member, the searching for the most radical professors at college, the Rezco association, ...may be "distractions" for
the brainwashed and indoctrinated who only want to hear vacuous platitudes and sloganeering soundbites.
For the rest of the electorate, the flirtations and flittings with extreme fringe lunatics has developed a lifelong pattern that warrants examination.
He hides Wright and he waters down Ayers and he whitewashes Rezco and he diminishes "Frank"...but he never really ANSWERS any questions. He avoids, ducks, dodges, bobs, weaves and obfuscates.
The Hamas Sunday bulletin escaped his gaze, the lionizing of Farrakhan eluded his inquisitive mind, the "chickens coming home to roost" had flown before he heard them, ....yet somehow Wright became so important to him, he called him one of the most important people in his life. Intriguing.
What we don't know, because the "in the bag media" has never asked...is why the attraction to this far, far, far left fringe element...that he has SOUGHT out his entire life.
More importantly, how have these attachments shaped his worldview.
Perhaps we caught a glimpse at the Hamas/Farrakhan/Wright influence....when Sen. Obama had a sphincter tightening reflex to being asked if an attack on Israel would be considered an attack on America. He couldn't find the escape hatch and he groped around in the dark for it. What a distraction, indeed. Bzzzzzzz.
The
Posted by: cfbleachers at April 17, 2008 06:13 PM (bL8P9)
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The amount of displeasure in the MSM media over the questions asked of Obama show us a couple things.
1st it shows us again how much the media is outside of the central norm of American society and how close it is to the left. They attacked the questions asked strongly because of how much it is common sense (to them) that those issues are irrelevant. Which only goes to show how far they are from the main stream of American society --- because a large percentage of Americans say those items are important.
2nd - connected to the above - when they scream that those questions are just pandering to the audience - that they are Jerry Springer type actions ----- they are again letting us see how little regard they have for that large percentage of "trailer trash" people in America. It is saying, "So what if those bitter, gun and God nuts rednecks in flyover country believe this stuff is important!! They are idiots!! It is the media's (elite's) job to rise above the squaller of the masses and ask questions that mean something.
3rd - the level of attacks from media sources on the ABC hosts shows how much they hate that they can no longer control what is and isn't worthy of consideration in the public domain.
The spread of cable tv, the Internet, and talk radio has given Americans alternatives to where they get information about what they consider worthy. And it is killing the media elites.
Their ratings keep dropping and they have lost the ability to control public discourse.
Posted by: usinkorea at April 19, 2008 09:52 AM (PLTs0)
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April 16, 2008
The Fake "Gun Rights Group" Supporting Obama
ABC News reports that Barack Obama has collected the endorsement of a guns rights group, the American Hunters and Shooters Association:
"Sen. Obama will be a strong voice an unabashed voice for America's hunters and shooters and it is with great pleasure that we endorse his candidacy," President of the Association Ray Schoenke said, citing Obama's commitment to the traditions of gun ownership.
Schoenke said they had reached out to the Obama campaign several weeks ago to offer their support – but the announcement wasn't made public until today. Schoenke added that the timing amid the controversy was important.
"We believe recent attacks on Sen. Obama's stand on the 2nd amendment and his commitment to the hunting and shooting heritages are unfair."
Actually, it is
Obama's record on firearms that is
unfair to Americans, but don't expect Ray Schoenke to know much about gun rights, even if the
Daily Kos diarist is the President of the American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA).
Schoenke, a failed Democratic candidate for governor of Maryland, has
donated thousands to Handgun Control, Inc, a virulent anti-gun organization that was the forerunner of Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. He has donated tens of thousands more to anti-gun Democratic politicians including Ted Kennedy.
AHSA executive director Robert Ricker has testified as a
paid witness against the gun industry and consults for several anti-gun groups, and John Rosenthal, President of the AHSA Foundation, is a former member of Sarah Brady's Handgun Control, Inc, and is leader of Stop Handgun Violence, a Massachusetts anti-gun group that has contributed to that state's intolerant anti-gun guns.
Just as Obama's record of claiming he is in favor of the Second Amendment even as he pushes for gun ban is dishonest, so is this endorsement from a trojan horse gun control organization masquerading as a group that respects American's rights to life and liberty.
Update: SayUncle
examined this group earlier this year in greater detail.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
The NRA is the only player of substance here. Have they said anything about Obama?
Posted by: mytralman at April 16, 2008 04:39 PM (k+clE)
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The SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) is even better than the NRA. The NRA has lagged from time to time and the SAF is a more hardline organization.
The NRA will give Obama an F grade. But they will give incumbents the nod even if the rival is better on the Second than the incumbent.
Posted by: JP at April 16, 2008 05:00 PM (Tae/a)
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I should clarify.
The NRA favors an incumbent who has voted "favorably" in the past over an "unknown" challenger.
i.e.
Rural Dem from Texas who doesn't go for the clinton bans but may favor some controls (say an A- rating) gets the "Vote For" nod over a CCW holder Republican who has no "real" record of votes on gun issues(an A rate).
Posted by: JP at April 16, 2008 05:13 PM (Tae/a)
4
The American Hunters and Shooters Association also supports the following rights:
The right to keep and garnish with arugula.
The right to use Swiss Cheese on steak n cheese subs shall not be infringed.
A well extended pinky finger, necessary to secure holding of a tea cup, shall not be infringed.
Posted by: SnObama at April 16, 2008 06:15 PM (qu/jV)
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Their website, huntersandshooters.com, was registered less than three years ago and their WHOIS record doesn't actually list any contacts, as a legitimate organization presumably would--all of their contact fields are listed as "Domains by Proxy, Inc."
Compare with, say, nra.org: registered in 1993, all their contact information is for people within the organization.
Posted by: Matt at April 16, 2008 06:46 PM (cXWnh)
6
How about being more specific franglo. I would love to hear the reasons why you feel this un-named silver-spoon heir is considered elitist. Considering getting a gun usually requires something like a drivers license, your comment makes no sense. Weird how all with all the guns I own, not a single one has ever poked a hole in any person. Lots of cans, targets, some animals, but no people. Is there another product that is misused in such quantity as guns are, according to you? What minuscule percentage of guns manufactured have poked a hole in a person. Ruby Ridge mindset? Why don't you explain what you think you mean by that? Do you know what Ruby Ridge was actually about? Not the sharpest tool in the drawer are you? Tool, yes. Sharp, no.
Posted by: buzz at April 16, 2008 06:47 PM (lKtne)
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I see our issues as complementary to theirs," Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign, says about Schoenke's association. "They're a positive group."
source
Posted by: Matt at April 16, 2008 06:53 PM (cXWnh)
8
Is there anything real about Obama's image, or is it all made up to convince us he is somone who he's not?
Of course it's all made up - he's a politician, isn't he?
Anyone who runs for an office should be disqualified posthaste. I'm sure we could do better with 'the first hundred names from the Boston phone book'.
OK, maybe not Boston - how about Waycross, GA? Tupelo, MS? Lebanon, TN? Phenix City, AL? (no, I didn't misspell it). OK, Van Horn, TX - that's my last offer - although the first hundred names may well overlap the last hundred names there, from what I hear.
Listen, trust NO POLITICIAN with your rights - remember, they (rights) don't come from the government, therefore the government can't take them away.
Unless you help. Don't help.
Posted by: bt at April 16, 2008 07:01 PM (9Hlwf)
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As he is Unable to converse as an adult without profanity, franglo's comments have been removed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at April 16, 2008 07:03 PM (HcgFD)
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Matt, Domains by Proxy, Inc. is listed when owners of a domain name purchase a private listing. This can be done to hide the owner's identity certainly but it's also done to prevent spam bots and junk mail proprietors from scrounging contact info and is done quite frequently.
Posted by: tom at April 16, 2008 07:16 PM (2YZnZ)
11
JP commented that the NRA will endorse an incumbent with an "A-" or so rating over a challenger who might be a stronger Second Amendment supporter. This position actually makes considerable sense. If a legislator goes out on a limb to support the pro-2A position, particularly if he's in a swing district or is facing party pressure to vote the other way, and then is "rewarded" at re-election time by the NRA endorsing his opponent, then you'll never see another pro-2A vote from a centrist legislator or a person in a swing district. There will never be a Congress full of members with "A+" ratings. We need the votes of the centrists, and cannot punish them when they go out of their way our way.
Posted by: Helen at April 16, 2008 08:03 PM (HRbs3)
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Matt: Since the AHSA doesn't seem to have been founded until 2005, it's no surprise that their web site has been registered for less than three years.
Posted by: Joshua at April 16, 2008 09:41 PM (Lr6VP)
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The Amerikanski Huntington and Shooters-Hooters are a well documented astroturf group who are "pro-gun" in every respect as far as pro gun-control goes. They've never met a regulation that's not "reasonable," from complete scary EBR (Evil Black Rifle) bans, to semi-auto bans (including Grandpa's old A-5 shotgun), to sniper rifle bans (anything with a scope), to waiting period and monthly limitations - they embrace the whole gamut of guns (regulations).
Posted by: DirtCrashr at April 17, 2008 11:33 AM (VNM5w)
14
Can't these anti-Constitutional feebs EVER just play a damn straight line? This would be terrifying if it weren't unraveling before our eyes. Global warming is another good example. Just crap they make up....
Posted by: megapotamus at April 17, 2008 12:35 PM (LF+qW)
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HEY HOLLYWOOD! This Book's Success Should Tell You Something
The movie industry has released one box-office flop after another regarding our modern wars against Islamic extremists, leading the dim and the dull in studio boardrooms and backlots to assume that Americans don't want to see or know about those conflicts.
But if the American people want to ignore those wars,then why is Michael Yon's
Moment of Truth in Iraq currently
#12 #10 in Amazon's sales rank? The obvious answer is that we aren't tired of content about the war, we're just tired of movies portraying our soldiers and Marines as psychopaths, murderers, or victims.
Show us a film that
respects our troops, portraying their honor, their sacrifice, their dignity, and exceptional humanity under the most trying of combat conditions. Show us a film that portrays Islamic terrorists as the callous, torturing, murderous and irreligious thugs they really are. Show us that film, and I'll show you a film that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in profit and could actually contribute to winning hearts and minds around the world.
Oddly enough, that very project is
waiting in the wings. A smart producer could build upon Yon's growing popularity, and his stories based upon the exploits of Deuce Four, the Stryker Brigade known as the
Punishers, already made legendary in Yon's dispatches like
Gates of Fire.
That might mean setting aside the community's general anti-war feelings for money, but somehow, I think they have the moral flexibility to make that happen.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I just finished Robert Kaplan's "Imperial Grunts," which showed troops from disadvantaged backgrounds (one Marine was even homeless before he joined), often driven by strong religious beliefs... and somehow he managed to refrain from looking down on his subjects or making them out to be victims. It allowed for criticisms of Bush/Rumsfeld, showed troops bitching contantly, and kept a consistent tone of admiration for their commitment and sacrifices. What's so tough about all this?
Posted by: tsmonk at April 16, 2008 10:33 AM (j0chB)
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Its not that they think Americans dont want to see or know about these conflicts. After the flops of "Readacted", "In the Valley of Elah, "Lions for Lambs" and most recently "Stop Loss", Hollywood simply thinks the average American is TOO STUPID to get the message. A movie based on Gates of Fire or Marcus Luttrell's "Lone Survivor" would make box office gold.
Posted by: MAJHAM at April 16, 2008 12:24 PM (5ap+X)
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"Hollywood simply thinks the average American is TOO STUPID to get the message."
Gosh, with an attitude like that, I wonder who they're supporting for President? (Is that old Variety headline "Stix nix hix pix" still valid, you think?) Guess the average adult movie-goer (most movies are obviously aimed at children and teen-agers) is pretty much a "typical white person" who is toting a Bible and a gun while married to a close relative and both of them are racist haters who are increasingly bitter about free trade. Otherwise these movies would be making a mint, right?
Posted by: JorgXMcKie at April 16, 2008 01:19 PM (nMT31)
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#10 on Amazon but how many ordered/pre-ordered directly from Yon as soon as they knew about this book.
Posted by: Mekan at April 16, 2008 01:29 PM (hm8tW)
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Why does anyone think it's accidental or stupid on the part of Hollywood? The so-called liberals along with the usual suspects on the left have all joined The Internationale. They do not rout for American success. These are people who embrace Chavez. They believe that Amerikkka is imperialist and must be defeated. The movies all crashed and burned? And they continue to make more of the same? Perhaps once you've decided that this mission must fail and to deliver propaganda to help towards that end, the success of it is less important than the amount.
Posted by: ducktrapper at April 16, 2008 02:31 PM (JWX9j)
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What's funny is their REAL target audience won't watch those movies. We aren't even a blip on the horizon. If the "millyuns" who are hating the war won't go and see that trash its because its too soon and emotions are too raw or some variation on that theme. They may have hit the nail right on the head with that supposition but all of us regular Americans are entirely outside of the box. My mind keeps getting drawn back to the Passion of the Christ. Hollywood could not process the success of that movie. They don't understand there is a whole 'nuther country out there which if understood could provide a huge market for what? Movies!!!
Posted by: Belasarius at April 16, 2008 03:39 PM (CcBnr)
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Luttrell's book has been optioned for a movie. You can google that to confirm. Surprised me too to hear about it. But Hollywood values money over prestige. The antiwar movies represent the sort of posturing and liberal pieties that prompt the self congratulation and status the schmucks in the movie business crave. But, well, money is money. If vulgar comedies make money, they produce vulgar comedies. If movies about feckless Americans being tortured in grimy Eastern European hostels make money, they make Hostel II. If a movie based on Lone Survivor makes money, we shall see.
Posted by: Zhombre at April 16, 2008 04:53 PM (SRZ4E)
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Yon's book has been as high as #6 on Amazon. They must have run low, or out of books. I hope that will soon be remedied.
Posted by: Bill Smith at April 16, 2008 06:36 PM (+lPnm)
9
Hollywood's response:
*chirp*
*chirp* *chirp*
Posted by: Purple Avenger at April 16, 2008 08:49 PM (2ZGD5)
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Tinselgrad is for makings of the collective-movie spirit! Boy-and-tractor sex movie, office worker girl meets Central Committee-falls in love-loses Central Committee-wins Chairmanship-liquidates oposition - you know, common peoples problemski not bitter and clingy peoples.
Posted by: DirtCrashr at April 17, 2008 11:40 AM (VNM5w)
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"The God Delusion" is #5. By your logic, Hollywood should be making lots of movies about atheism, since "we" are sick and tired of having religion shoved down our throats.
Right?
Posted by: Blue Texan at April 17, 2008 04:54 PM (lbYKU)
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SHOCKER: MSNBC Won't Air "Fake" Anti-Gun Ad
MSNBC has refused to air a dishonest anti-gun ad:
The cable network MSNBC has refused to air an advertisement from Mayors Against Illegal Guns, the group created by New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg,on the grounds that the ad is too "controversial."
The ad, below, features each of the three leading presidential candidates pledging to make it harder to buy guns at gun shows, and images of three mayors urging viewers to call Congress and ask that a bill closing the "gun-show loophole" be passed.
The ad is airing on CNN and Fox, and on affiliates around the country, a Bloomberg aide said.
But in an email obtained by Politico, an MSNBC account executive told the group the network wouldn't air the ad.
"just heard back from legal about your script...unfortunately, we can not accept as it is a controversial issue ad," said the email from the account executive.
New York's criminal-justice coordinator, John Feinblatt, called MSNBC's decision "amazing.'
"How could the network call something controversial that all three candidates agree about," he said. "All three cands have called for the gun-show loophole to be closed."
They can call it controversial because the "gun show loophole" is an urban legend—yes, a myth— that does not exist, even if all three candidates are willing to pander over it in their ignorance.
Commercial gun dealers have to fill out the same ATF form 4473 and conduct a NICS background check at gun shows as they do in their own shops and retail stores, a fact ignored by the candidates and Bloomberg.
Individuals selling firearms to other individuals are not required to conduct background checks
regardless of their location in many states. Gun shows do not have an exemption.
Declining to run false advertising should never be controversial, even if it is pushed by a big city mayor with a history of
breaking gun laws himself.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Posted by: Grey Fox at April 16, 2008 08:50 AM (C8cpV)
2
Pardon my skepticism of their legal statement. If McCain wasnt in the ad, they may have run it. They are afraid that pointing out his centrist view on any issue may divert votes from their candidate.
Posted by: Joe Buzz at April 16, 2008 09:18 AM (YLGud)
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April 15, 2008
Lip Service
Been to Wal-Mart lately?
If you do go to "Wally World," walk back towards the sporting goods section the next time you visit, and see if there is a gun section. They are slowing disappearing in some stores, and those that that remain stock "bread and butter" firearms, mostly bolt-action centerfire rifles, .22 rifles of various actions and 20-gauge and 12-gauge shotguns of single-shot, pump, and semi-auto varieties. There isn't much there to get a shooting enthusiast excited, or much in stock that would likely be described as the kind of firearm a felon would prefer.
That however, has not kept gun-grabbing mayor Mike Bloomburg from
making a big deal of an agreement between his group Mayors Against Illegal Guns and the retail giant, an agreement that looks good on paper, but will have very little significant in impacting the flow of guns into criminal hands.
Why?
Criminals prefer firearms that are concealable, well-made, and of large caliber, but will settle for concealable, and handguns tend to fill that need.
According to government statistics, rifles are used in just 3-percent of murders, and shotguns just 5-percent.
Of the "top ten" most commonly traced firearms in crimes (according to that same government report), seven are cheaply-made, small-caliber handguns, two are ubiquitous 9mm service pistols common among police, civilian shooters, and criminals, and just one is a long-arm of any kind.
Wal-Mart does not sell handguns, stocking only rifles and shotguns, and therefore this agreement, while somewhat interesting from the point of view of speculating why the retail giant might capitulate to Bloomberg's wishes (trying to get into the City where they haven't previously been allowed, no doubt), will have virtually no discernible impact in fighting gun crime.
This makes a nice press conference for the man who would consider running for president, but doesn't amount to anything of significance.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I am told by my brother that Walmarts in West Virginia have large gun sections and sell booze. It may not be a big deal for those of us with poor sporting good sections, but it may have a bigger impact for others.
Nanny Bloomberg can't leave his position soon enough.
Posted by: Tristan Phillips at April 15, 2008 10:16 AM (0tV1H)
2
They sell ammo though and you can get a big white box of 9mm - and here in CA there's an idiot in Teh Legislaturz trying to impose a new law that would require Ammo Registration...
Posted by: DirtCrashr at April 15, 2008 10:33 AM (VNM5w)
3
Hey Mayor Bloomburg, how about: "Mayors Against Crime, and The Criminals That Commit Them"?
Ah yes, my bad, it's the gun, not the person using it that's the problem in your world.
Idiot.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at April 15, 2008 11:19 AM (M+Vfm)
4
There's a very nice, upscale Walmart in Plano, Texas, that doesn't have guns for sure, and I don't think they stock ammo either. They do have sushi though.
The other Walmart that's close to me does have guns and ammo - I've never bought a gun there but I've definitely bought a few bricks of 22LR.
Posted by: Skip at April 15, 2008 11:20 AM (G2eJS)
5
Gotta remember that Walmart mostly sells what people buy.
If people stop buying milk, they will stop stocking it.
Not much philosophy involved.
Posted by: Larry Sheldon at April 15, 2008 12:57 PM (nUJJO)
6
I bought ammo at Wal-Mart a couple times, but it wasn't worth the slight discount. No one there knows anything about anything, and both times it took forever for THE person with THE key to waddle over and unlock the cabinet. Plus, I'd rather support the independent businesses even if it costs a little more.
Posted by: Craig at April 15, 2008 01:28 PM (0MZfd)
7
Unfortunately, those stats are from 1995, though 2005 stats aren't much different.
Posted by: Steve at April 15, 2008 09:15 PM (A46+r)
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K-Mart up here in Michigan went the same route and I don't think it's a supply/demand issue either. I live in a rural area where purchasing guns&ammo is akin to buying bread and butter. I will say their service was an issue though.
Posted by: markm at April 16, 2008 06:15 AM (hVOTO)
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April 14, 2008
Danke, Comrade Obama
I asked the rhetorical question last week: Is Barack Obama a Communist?
I posited the question because of the purposeful emptiness of Obama's stated views, his lack of a long-term record, disturbing tendencies in the little legislative record he has established, and a list of troubling personal and professional associations with radicals, cranks, criminals, and conspiracy theorists.
Little did I know at the time that Obama had already
answered my question during in an exclusive fundraiser in San Francisco's Billionaire's Row. As William Kristol points out in the
Times, Barack Obama
cited Marxist philosophies in describing why Americans go to church and pray to God.
It isn't faith, says Obama. It is "bitterness" that drives us into the pews. We are frustrated, bigoted, and paranoid, and we arm ourselves with guns and God as a result. It is this nation of violent rubes Obama has protected himself from by cloistering himself among the urban and urbane.
It is because he holds these views of the rest of us that Obama's two-decade association with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and his radical church could not be disavowed.
For Obama to disavow Wright is to disavow his own warped views of religion, the Constitution, and America. His convictions may be poisoned, but he is principled in holding to their acidity.
It is
AmeriKKKa they fear and loath, a dumbed-down, never-evolving nation they've had reinforced in their minds on Sundays for 20 years. It is a country that Barack and Michelle Obama know in their hearts that they are not part of, a people that they cannot be proud of. For all the advantages this country has given them, they are blind to our better nature as a nation.
I pity the Obamas, but I thank them for finally letting us see who they really are, and what they think of the rest of us.
Update: Andrew Sullivan
accuses Kristol of misrepresenting Obama:
...Kristol is deliberately distorting to paint Obama as a cynical manipulator of religious faith for political ends, rather than as a genuine Christian. He's calling him a lying, Godless communist.
Actually, Obama is neither quite a "lying, Godless communist" nor "a genuine Christian," but something of
both, and neither. Obama is a 20-year congregate of Black Liberation Theology,
race-defined Marxism in a Christian shell.
Ultimately, it matters little whether Obama was a Marxist before he found Trinity and Jeremiah Wright's rendition of James Cone's Black Liberation Theology, or if he became imbued with Marxism as a result of his exposure to this bastardized doctrine.
What does matter is that Obama's views, shaped by Jeremiah Wright over decades, do not represent those of the vast majority of Americans, Democrat or Republican, and that is something Sullivan would much rather ignore about his chosen candidate.
Update: Juliette Ochieng makes incisive observations about Obama's view through the prism of Black Liberation Theology at her blog
baldilocks.
A
taste:
In Obama's mind, the religion clung to by the "average poor white Pennsylvanian" is BLT's demonic "white" Church. The "white" Church is the tool of oppression for all—including poor whites—and should be shaken off just like other social maladies. Just like anti-immigration (sic) and racism. One will note that, in the defense of the earlier remarks, Obama still does not say anything objectively positive about the religion adhered to by the average rural white Pennsylvanian. What he actually says is that government should answer their prayers.
Meanwhile,
Hugh Hewitt notes that while Obama has indeed had an extraordinary life, there are reasons he cannot relate to, and does not understand, the average American.
Final Update (4/15): A very interesting catch from
Professor Bainbridge (h/t
Insty). If this is correct, Senator Joe Lieberman, who has worked with Obama for three years, isn't sure if he is a Marxist:
I know him now for a little more than three years since he came into the Senate and he's obviously very smart and he’s a good guy. I will tell ya that during this campaign, I've learned some things about him, about the kind of environment from which he came ideologically. And I wouldn't… I'd hesitate to say he's a Marxist, but he's got some positions that are far to the left of me and I think mainstream America.
Bainbridge himself seems to believe that Obama is a modern socialist instead of a Marxist. I'd argue that for all practical purposes as far as American voters are concerned, that is a distinction without much of a difference.
Final, Final Update (4/15): It may well be noted that Barack H. Obama Sr (candidate Obama's father) stated that there was
very little difference between African Socialism and Soviet-style communism, so perhaps he would agree with me about identifying his son's politics, even though he was in favor of communism, and I am not.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
So, the Obamessiah would rather we cling to government instead of our faith? Well, isn't that rich?
Posted by: Drama Queen at April 14, 2008 02:58 PM (dtoAW)
2
He's a typical Bay-Aryan as far as I can tell, you sure he went to Harvard and not Stanford - they're interchangeable really.
Posted by: DirtCrashr at April 14, 2008 04:53 PM (VNM5w)
3
CY-
That's still not communism, son. Look it up.
As an aside, CY, I can't understand why it's so important for you to paint the most grotesque picture possible of Obama. Why the hysterical imagery, the citation of other bloggers' hysteria as "proof," and lack of analysis. I'd be interested to hear what you're so afraid of--tell me what you think would be the probable (i.e. not worst case) result of an Obama presidency and why it scares the bejeezus out of you.
Thanks, Comrad.
Posted by: Craig at April 14, 2008 05:27 PM (0MZfd)
4
Everyone must be bitter because the mill closed.
Right now were at a 9, lets bring it down to about a 3.
Posted by: brando at April 14, 2008 06:01 PM (rDQC9)
5
Craig, Cy does not have to worry as Obama, communist or not, will never be President. The ads that will run against him will insure that his lack of experience along with his display of judgement or misjudgement will assure a landslide victory for McCain. Until the Democrats run a moderate, they will never get the votes necessary to win the White House. Most Americans do not believe government is the answer to all of our problems. Inspite of what your uncle George Soros and the Kos kids say. Obama is a loser.
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at April 14, 2008 06:41 PM (J5AYY)
6
Thanks, Zelsdorf, but CY can fight his own battles.
Posted by: Craig at April 14, 2008 07:16 PM (0MZfd)
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Certainly he can, Craig. And his friends (and I'd be honored to consider myself one of Bob's friends) can help him out, too.
Sorry, that feeble attempt at pushing aside Zeldorf's comments won't work. Better luck next time.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 14, 2008 07:38 PM (yDWgl)
8
Sure you can. Bring it. Still want to hear from the Man, though.
Posted by: Craig at April 14, 2008 07:51 PM (0MZfd)
9
Sorry, Craig, I only debate people who can frame a reasonable argument.
Since I've not found such a one on the left in many many years of searching, the only use I've found for lefties is as a cat-toy.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 14, 2008 07:59 PM (yDWgl)
10
Weren't you the one that told me: "Sorry, that feeble attempt at pushing aside [a poster's] comments won't work. Better luck next time."? So does it only work when you do it?
Look, bud, debate or don't--your choice--but false confidence and chest thumping are a poor substitute.
Posted by: Craig at April 14, 2008 08:05 PM (0MZfd)
11
If Bill Kristol writes it, you can be sure it ain't so!
Posted by: jack at April 14, 2008 09:15 PM (xcP7j)
12
Obama is now down by 20 in PA and as of this weekend down 16 in Indiana, so I don't think it is just CY being all hysterical. You cannot dis the folks and expect to win. And as to why he scares the bejeezus out of folks, well try to tell Americans that they should replace their faith in God with faith in the all powerful government and see whether you scare them or not. Anyone even remotely informed should remember the bread lines of the old Soviet Union and know the horrible conditions in Cuba today. Or the mess that Europe now finds itself in. Obama is as close to being a communist that a candidate could get and how he got as far as he is, is a real mystery to me. And mostly the idea of Obama in charge and playing kissy face with terrorists is just unacceptable and that is exactly what he says he wants to do.
Posted by: Sara at April 14, 2008 10:10 PM (Wi/N0)
13
Craig,
I'm a rural Iowan who experiences Bitter Bama Face daily. In a county with a population of less than 8,000, we see the hardships Obama references first-hand. Unfortunately, the junior Senator hasn't experienced hardship first hand, nor has he spent time with people who are struggling. Our rural population is bitter from the useless futility the Marxist income redistribution program has transferred to them.
We have a structural poverty - a 30% or so of our population - that consists of governmental subsidy junkies. My neighbor can muscle hay bales and carry 40 pound feed sacks on each shoulder, yet receives a full subsidy for an alleged leg disability. In town, he's a cripple with a cane. Countless others receive subsidies of a sort, keeping them voting Democrat but perpetually bitter in their subsidized but useless and underproductive, unrealized life. Our cash economy is remarkable - from 50-year-old pot smokers living with mom and dad while receiving full disability, to the army of single moms with a half dozen kids each. Don't even get me started on the meth junkies... I've had two labs within a mile of my farm in the past year alone. 40-year-olds who have senior parents and farm outbuildings that make no-cost, low-visibility labs.
A visit to our local grocery allows you to witness the pride of our food stamp program. Local government handout junkies use their food card to buy junk food - highly processed, ready-to-eat high calorie stuff - while using "their" cash to buy tobacco, beer, rent movies and buy lotto tickets.
In all, many are bitter. Their government subsidy allows them to survive, but they never achieve anything useful. They live payment to payment, intrinsically knowing they have no real value and are completely dependent upon someone else. It really is a miserable life, as it isn't much more than comfortable slavery. Life sucks knowing you're a parasite.
Rather than condemn this unsustainable, shameful monstrosity, Obama proposes more. We've spent more than 40 years in the War on Poverty with no redeployment in sight. Now Obama proposes extending this treatment to the middle class via the subprime bailout and even grander parasitism.
Hell, this even makes me bitter now...
Posted by: redherkey at April 14, 2008 10:19 PM (kjqFg)
14
Redherkey-
Point of fact, Obama was a community organizer on the south side of Chicago. So he obviously knows a lot of struggling people. John McCain, who has spent the last zillion years as a DC politician, probably knows a lot less struggling people.
As to the the rest, I don't see what Obama has to do with any of it. I understand you're irked at lazy people who game the system--who isn't? But Obama had zero to do with creating the layer of them in Iowa. Query this: what did the glorious 7 plus years of GOP reign--including 4 entire years of GOP dominance of the legislative and executive branch--do to lessen that condition in Iowa? Lemme answer: nothing. And what has Obama ever proposed that affirmatively condones lazy system gamers, and would actually seek to increase their ranks? Answer: nothing. BUT, John McCain said this last week: "Let me make it clear that that in these challenging times, I am committed to using all the resources of this government and great nation to create opportunity and make sure that every deserving American has a good job and can achieve their American dream." Again, that was McCain, not Obama, committed to using ALL THE RESOURCES OF THIS GOVERNMENT AND GREAT NATION TO . . . MAKE SURE EVERY DESERVING AMERICAN HAS A ***GOOD*** JOB...." Who's the Marxist commie now?
So why the inclination to make things up out of whole cloth? Why the wild projections about Commie bread lines (not you, Redherky)? If there are factual bases for these assertions, such as actual policy proposals, then it should be easy to prove that Obama is for that which you say he is.
Posted by: Craig at April 14, 2008 10:55 PM (0MZfd)
15
Craig,
If you could move past the progressivist ideology, I'd have to buy you a beer and welcome you as a friend. You're absolutely dead on in a few cases: four years of fat-cat republicans and a trust-fund child Bush administration did absolutely nothing except issue more IOUs to the Chinese and other lenders to our Federal debt.
My criticism of Obama, which I'd invite you to see as well, is that his solutions are reprehensible, unworkable and little more than pandering efforts to the worst in our society. He proposes more slavery for the poor, theft from the hard working, and further empowerment of the unworthy rich. Granted, it's damn near impossible to get the guy to state anything other than platitudes of "change" and "progress" - but when he has, it's either an indication that he's so intellectually non-complex, he's a total poseur, or he's a confused Marxist sucked in by a hopeless, irrational ideology.
Hillary's an old school scam artist. So is McCain. Most of our Congress is wrapped up in their own power, while screwing our nation.
I admire your determination to objectivity and truth. Just make sure you remove your blinders that screen out the crimes of the left, and hold shake-down "Socialist light" frauds like Obama accountable like his $10 million house minister and the rest of his pseudo-Marxist racket.
Posted by: redhekey at April 15, 2008 12:10 AM (kjqFg)
16
I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell ya that a democrat quoted Karl Marx.!
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 15, 2008 12:32 AM (kNqJV)
17
Craig:
Walks like a Duck. Quacks like a duck. . .
BLT based on Liberation Theology is literally Marxism with God added. This is the Church theology that "brought him To Jesus", and what drives his day to day thinking.
So Obama isn't a Godless Commie. He's a Theological Commie. Liberation Theology is the Identity politics of Marx added to a Faith to bring Communism to a slightly more palatable level for the common person it looks to subjugate.
Claiming he isn't really a commie is like claiming David Duke isn't really a Nazi or a Klansman because he no longer belongs to those organizations, even though he still hangs with, and caters to those crowds.
Posted by: JP at April 15, 2008 04:03 AM (Tae/a)
18
Postmodernist Obama insists that he is a Christian, not a Muslim. The key question is, "What kind of Christian?" He is a politician influenced by his friends and associates, his mother's secular humanism, his Muslim father and step-father. Thus his lack of judgment was seen in his disgusting comments about the average folks of Pennsylvania. For all of his
claims-poverty and recent college debt retirement, he is a millionaire and prefers such wealthly company.Black Liberation theology is a syncretistic mix of Christianity and marxist wealth redistribution, even revolutionary where necessary. Plus, his methodology is that of
the socialist, Saul Olinsky. Enough said.
Posted by: Jerry Frady at April 15, 2008 05:02 AM (o1GeP)
19
Right, so we have gone on from Muslim Obama, on through Racist Black Obama, Elitist Obama, and are now at Wrong Sort of Christian Obama with a branch of Commie Obama.
Wherever will you go next?
Posted by: Rafar at April 15, 2008 05:24 AM (EDjeA)
20
Being a racist, elitist and communist are mutually exclusive, Rafar? To me they fit like hand in glove.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 15, 2008 07:43 AM (kNqJV)
21
So Obama combines Marxist theory with racial identity politics. We saw a lot of that back in the 30's.
Posted by: pst314 at April 15, 2008 09:05 AM (OA547)
22
CY says: "Bainbridge himself seems to believe that Obama is a modern socialist instead of a Marxist. I'd argue that for all practical purposes as far as American voters are concerned, that is a distinction without much of a difference."
CY, there is a difference because socialism and Marxism are not the same thing. It's not even debatable: Marxism is a subset of socialism, but not all socialism is Marxism. You don't want to draw or recognize the distinction because squawking Marxist! in every post has more gut-punch appeal. But tagging the average American as too intellectually lazy to differentiate one from the other does not transmogrify generic socialism into Marxism. that type of attitude is as condescending to the "American voters" as Obama was alleged to be last week.
Confidential to all readers who fear socialism: America is already socialist. Check your pay stub for FICA and Medicare line items if you don't believe me. So don't express repugnance about socialism generally unless you have a 100% sincere commitment to not take Soc Sec and Medicare benefits when you retire. Thought so.
Posted by: Craig at April 15, 2008 09:51 AM (0MZfd)
23
Anti-gun and Prius-driving Palo Altans are bitter because they didn't get tenure and had to exercise another set of Google options as a downpayment on the eco-green Los Altos Hills home...
Posted by: DirtCrashr at April 15, 2008 10:38 AM (VNM5w)
24
Oh the painful cuts of division, Where does that leave poor Leninism and Maoism, not to mention Trotskites? We need a Uniter not a Divider!
Posted by: DirtCrashr at April 15, 2008 10:41 AM (VNM5w)
25
Yes, the US is far too socialistic for my tastes; John McCain far too socialistic... CFR, I'm lookin' at you! but it is an absurdity to suggest that since it is already somewhat socialist that the solution to that is indifference to the relative positions on statism of the candidates. President McCain will dissapoint and infuriate me on this account many times I am sure. To suggest that Barack is going to be better on that account or so close as to be immaterial is just a lie.
I am sure Barack is just what he appears: the most Leftwing hack in modern politics. The contradictions on trade, Israel and Iraq would be assimilable if the alternative were, say, someone who advocated the ridiculous positions Barack does on the stump and actually believed them. Then Barry is your guy. But the two alternatives are Hilary, a more competent version of the same bilious resentments as Barack, and John McCain. Barack is a hack; he says nothing because he knows nothing because, at the core, he believes nothing. He is not even an empty suit but an empty garment bag swirling in the winds. It is this nothingness that lets his slavish, and dimwitted supporters project any aspiration on to him. He is the Sin-Eater. He is the Big Brother. He is the font of all Good Things. It is pitiful. This huckster, real-estate hustler, this mountebank. This fraud. And if you don't believe me, ask Bill Clinton.
Oh, and the worst immediate outcome of an Obama Administration; instant defeat in Iraq and in the GWOT generally. Even if he wanted to fight the war, he is unequipped and he doesn't want to fight it. McCain has married himself to the war, as it succeeds, so will he. As it fails, so will he. Love or hate the policy, he actually says what he means publicly. Barack, only behind closed doors. What a disgrace.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 15, 2008 11:16 AM (LF+qW)
26
And Barry nakedly embraces the iconography of the socialist-realist. My girlfriend's dad has one of these posters. It was $400 on ebay. Scary, scary stuff if you remember the Iron Curtain. I do.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/04/obamas_posters_message_in_the.html
Posted by: megapotamus at April 15, 2008 11:29 AM (LF+qW)
27
"Being a racist, elitist and communist are mutually exclusive, Rafar? "
Well, obviously, yes they are. Communism (in theory) espouses the bortherhood of man regardless of race, gender, etc. Elitism is directly contradictory to Communism by definition. You can, of course, be a racist elitist.
(No, of course the theory and reality are not the same, but are you honestly suspecting Obama of wanting to set up collectivist farms in the US? Seriously? Communism's dead baby, it died years ago just a few bits of the world haven't worked that out yet.)
Anyway, I was just wondering where this was going next, or whether we had settled on the official smear for the election.
Posted by: Rafar at April 15, 2008 11:41 AM (ej9g/)
28
As the official smear, I don't think you can go wrong with The Truth which is Obama is the most consistently, predictably leftwing politician in modern times. Worse than Kerry, even. All that implies; the collectivist spending policies, the anti-Americanism, protectionism, the disdain for work and responsibility, the sense of personal and professional entitlement, statist mentality and class warfare are not merely present but thrown in our faces by Buddy Barry whenever he opens up his yap. Which is daily. What have you guys settled on for McCain? That his long residence at a spa in Souteast Asia was payed for by lobbyists?
Posted by: megapotamus at April 15, 2008 01:01 PM (LF+qW)
29
Snobama a Marxist, modern socialist, progressive Stalinist or Metrosexual Lennist? Who cares, it walks like a racist duck with fertilizer clining to its butt mouthing the same class warfare rhetoric with a bitterness that is surprising. One gathers his bitterness is due to his failure to compete in a capitalist society and has therefore forced to seek "fairness" to compensate for his failures.
This is to be expected from a man whose father never married his mother (legally) and who abandoned him. So many issues to deal with. Add to this is wife who mirrors his mother's beliefs and I'll show you someone who worships regullary at Lenin's Tomb.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at April 16, 2008 10:13 AM (LHaZf)
30
So are our choices
(1) guns
(2) religion
(3) politics
(4) democrats
(5) party politics
... I think I'll choose guns. (2) through (5) are right up there on par with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Posted by: ruralcounsel at April 16, 2008 01:03 PM (v7nHF)
31
You know, Irving Kristol's neoconservative doctrine traces its roots to Troskyism. Does that mean the Kristol family is a bunch of commie pigs bent on establishing totalitarian rule in the USA?
No. Two very different philosophies can share some common ideas, but that doesn't erase the distinction between the two schools of thought. That's why this argument by Kristol and — by extension — CY is totally disingenuous.
Again, hit Obama on his policies. That's where he's weak. If "Obama is a Communist" is best argument conservatives can come up with, then I think it's going to be a very good year for democrats.
Posted by: Juan Manuel de Rosas at April 16, 2008 05:52 PM (Hv4lu)
32
Juan, this may shock you, but Ronald Reagan was once a Democrat.
Democrats once believed in lowering taxes and a strong national defense... that idol of the Democrats, President John F. Kennedy, stood for both.
First, for national defense, see "Cuban Missile Crisis." 'Nuff said.
As for tax cuts, see this speech by President Kennedy to the Economic Club of New York, specifically this section:
The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system — and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963.
I'm not talking about a "quickie" or a temporary tax cut, which would be more appropriate if a recession were imminent. Nor am I talking about giving the economy a mere shot in the arm, to ease some temporary complaint. I am talking about the accumulated evidence of the last five years that our present tax system, developed as it was, in good part, during World War II to restrain growth, exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incenitives [sic] for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking. In short, to increase demand and lift the economy, the federal government's most useful role is not to rush into a program of excessive increases in public expenditures, but to expand the incentives and opportunities for private expenditures.
Mr. Kennedy would be considered too conservative for today's Democratic party, and would probably be treated like Mr. Lieberman has been.
And the tax cuts Mr. Kennedy proposed were signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson after Kennedy's death, so we have two Democratic Presidents on the side of tax cuts.
So, if we take your logic, Juan, we would say that the Democrats, because of the legacy of JFK, are a conservative party, and that's so absurd that it not only fails the laugh test but breaks the meter.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 16, 2008 07:11 PM (yDWgl)
33
JFK would be considered a war mongering neocon today
Posted by: Purple Avenger at April 16, 2008 08:56 PM (2ZGD5)
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@C-C-G: It should be noted that I was pointing out how utterly rediculous such logic is. It's also the logic Kristol used in his terrible, terrible article.
I was merely pointing out that calling Obama a communist because one of his views is similar to that of Marx is disingenuous. That's like accusing a politician of being a fascist because they — like Mussolini — made trains run on time. Now if Obama decided to impose an imperialistic totalitarian state aimed a radically redistributing wealth (ie. Confiscating land and personal property not simply raising your already low taxes), then yeah, he'd be a communist.
By the way, I do agree with you. I'm a moderate that generally leans democrat, although I have voted republican in the past. I believe in free-market economics and free trade, and I do believe that the Democratic party has strayed too far into protectionist territories. This is the stuff you guys should be talking about if you want McCain to win. I don't give a damn about Barack's preacher or whether or not he knows someone who was in The Weather Underground. I care about policy, and that's what you should be talking about.
Just sayin'.
Posted by: Juan Manuel de Rosas at April 17, 2008 12:47 PM (duarq)
35
The point, Juan, is that Obama is advocating policies that are nearly indistinguishable from communism. He wants to impose a totalitarian system on health care, for one instance. He opposes the free ownership of certain types of property (firearms) for another. I could go on and on and on.
Bottom line, if he's not a capital-C Communist, he certainly is a small-c communist, because Stalin would be right at home with Obama's policies.
"From each according to his means, to each according to his needs" would be a good slogan for Obama. And it was originally penned by Karl Marx. Think on that one for a while.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 17, 2008 07:02 PM (yDWgl)
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Yon: Moment of Truth
Was a busy weekend and I didn't get a chance to get into my copy of Michael Yon's Moment of Truth in Iraq beyond skimming a few pages, though I'm going to try to carve time out of my schedule to read it tonight. If it is anything like his dispatches, I'll probably devour it in one extended sitting.
It is already up to #68 on Amazon's bestseller list and
Glenn Reynolds notes that is #1 in military books (and that it is excellent. He also notes that Mike has a
page dedicated to help promoting the book so it gets in your local bookstores and libraries, and I'd simply note that if you
really want the local library to stock it so that others might read a perspective of the war they might not get anywhere else, you can always buy multiple copies of
Moment of Truth in Iraq and donate them directly to the library yourself.
As you already know by now, Mike is supported by his readers and his readers alone, so by purchasing his book, you're supporting his work.
Besides... wouldn't it send a message to Congress if we could make a book promoting the efforts of the Next Greatest Generation the #1 book in America?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Obama Reverses Course
In a desperate bid to distance himself from yet another unhinged tirade from his former minister of 20 years, Barack Obama is expected to announce later today that he is, indeed, a Muslim.
Update: Abe Greenwald has a
more serious look at the implosion of the freshman senator's campaign at
Commentary.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Snobama is jointed at the hip with Wright. Its a bit late to try and disown this racist now after 20 years of supporting the Farakhan want to be.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at April 16, 2008 10:15 AM (LHaZf)
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April 11, 2008
Obama Explains God-Crazy, Gun-Humping Pennsylvania Rubes to San Francisco's Billionaire's Row
Keep in mind that the original source on this is a rather batty Huffington Post contributor, but armed with that bit of information, let's listen to how Obama describes certain parts of fly-over country to his fellow liberal elites in San Francisco, at this event at the Getty home on Billionaire's Row chronicled by zombie.
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Don't worry if you're not from Pennsylvania though, folks. I'm sure he feels this way about you,
wherever you live.
John McCain and Hillary Clinton
aren't missing out of the action, as you may well imagine.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
But we aren't supposed to infer ANYTHING from this....
This guy is a walking disaster.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at April 12, 2008 12:18 AM (M+Vfm)
2
from swimming freestyle:
"Barack Obama is a remarkably eloquent man and turning into a remarkably capable politician. But if the Senator believes it's smart to insult voters from a state critical to your success, he's hit one of the worst false notes yet in his campaign.
Yeah, I know what his campaign said, and that may have been what he meant. But a sophisticated candidate doesn't refer to voters in language that can be construed as derogatory or insulting. Obama asserted Pennsylvania voters are bitter and so simple and lacking in maturity and intelligence that they address their frustration by clinging to primitive and reactionary crutches rather than addressing their problems in constructive ways.
It's divisive. And not the way to attract the voters you need most."
http://swimmingfreestyle.typepad.com
Posted by: Jay McDonough at April 12, 2008 12:35 AM (tsTvj)
3
I happen to LIKE people like that. Exactly like that, in fact, except they're NOT as Sen. Obama described. They don't "cling" to their religion, or guns. Those things are just part of who they are, and I can tell you from personal experience that who they are are damn fine people. Chambersburg, PA comes easily to mind.
I'm a concert photographer, but I also know a bit about fire departments, and the volunteer dept. there runs a concert as a fund raiser. I can say honestly I have never seen a better run concert, or a more shaped up volunteer fire department ANYWHERE. Just superb. New, state of the art apparatus, and equipment, and everybody knew their job. Smooth as silk.
Same thing in Meshoppen, PA at the Kiwanis Wyoming County fair. Or the re-opened for tourists coal mine I stopped at, and took a tour of on the way back to CT. The retired miner who led the tour deep inside the mine was fascinating. I learned more history, geology, chemistry, engineering, and sociology in an hour and a half than I had since college.
Those people weren't bitter, or frustrated either. Instead, they turned an old, abandoned mine into a first rate tourist attraction. Not some Disney re-creation, a real, working coal mine.
Those people were not looking for outsiders to string up, or someone to blame. What vile, stupid, ignorant things for Sen. Obama to say. And how dumb of him to think no one would hear. Not too bright.
Bill
Posted by: Bill Smith at April 12, 2008 01:39 AM (Up4Is)
4
When I posted about this yesterday, I had found the part ..
anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
.. as just breathe taking in regard to the fact that just the day before Nancy Pelosi had taken the Columbian Free Trade agreement out of contention for an up or down vote.
But why would Nancy Pelosi be bitter ?
But alas, here was the leading contender for the Democratic nomination for POTUS basically saying that this was a cynical act, probably a cynical political act which was not in the interest of the nation, but nonetheless standard Democratic fare of the day.
I've noticed today, that many progressive sites seem to leave off the "anti-trade sentiment" portion of the quote, including Reuters.
Are all Democratic candidates so cynical of the voters that they fell free to distort their own positions publicly while secretly knowing that they would not support it themselves ?
I will watch and wait for an answer.
Posted by: Neo at April 12, 2008 07:53 AM (Yozw9)
5
Don't tell me words don't matter."
From Obama's own mouth.
Let's see how long it takes his campaign to try to assert that these words don't matter.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 12, 2008 08:23 AM (yDWgl)
6
Oh, this is just another DISTRACTION from what really needs to be talked about. It's one of those almost daily distractions that keep popping up about Obama because of his inexperience, lack of transparency and unwillingness to take a stand on issues.
Heh!
Posted by: daleyrocks at April 12, 2008 11:05 AM (0pZel)
7
Obama’s only major contact with religious people are those at Trinity UCC. From the “GD AmeriKKKa”, I get the sense that they may be frustrated and bitter, so by obvious extension .. what guns are they clinging to ?
Posted by: Neo at April 13, 2008 10:35 AM (Yozw9)
8
Here's where I'd say something about Obama shore having a purty mouth... but those purple lips are just SUCH a turn-off.
Posted by: DaveP. at April 13, 2008 03:24 PM (3Aj1g)
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The brick house that Zombie describes as one of the poorer ones on the block is the late Melvyn Belli's, if I recall correctly.
Posted by: Used to live in SF at April 13, 2008 03:49 PM (zCpqK)
10
Neo -- another thing to consider on the free trade angle. Didn't Obama's campaign deny that one of the advisors had told the Canadians "don't worry, all that anti-trade stuff is just campaign rhetoric"?
Well, now we have Obama saying the same thing.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at April 14, 2008 07:30 AM (IuKAf)
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The only reason my husband is bitter is cause HE CAN'T BUY MORE GUNS RIGHT NOW! He's spending all his money are toys for his boat and truck.
Posted by: Maggie Mama at April 14, 2008 07:39 AM (K8rep)
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It's turkey hunting season down here in the Bible-thumpin', gun-totin', non-union/free-tradin' South, home of The Fair Tax. I've discarded all my turkey calls for a few seconds of gObama's speech. The birds just flock to the sound of "hope and change", just the set-up for getting plucked.
Posted by: twolaneflash at April 14, 2008 09:11 PM (05dZx)
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The best part about hearing "new proposals" from Congress-persons in the majority party every Presidential election cycle is asking the obvious question ..
If these folks are so f.ing smart, why the H E double hockey sticks haven't they put their proposals on the docket already ? .. why do we have to wait until they get elected President ?
If their ideas are so great, doesn't America deserve them today ? Why shouldn't we be bitter and frustrated that they won't share, at least not for another 9 months, till their President ?
I can look into Thomas and see that Obama hasn't submitted bills to solve these problems. Shoot .. he and Hiliary are in the majority party of both chambers. So why the wait ?
Do they think that we are that dense ?
Yes, they do .. or perhaps Obama hasn't found the "in" basket yet.
Posted by: Neo at April 15, 2008 11:43 AM (Yozw9)
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We should all bless saint Snobama for giving us a glimpse into the inner mindsets of the faculty lounge at Havard and the inner sanctum of San Francisco. Apparently the annointed worship at the altars of secularism and little red book only when times are bad. They are driven to rage and blind loathing when their coworkers get a promotion or a pay increase. Worse yet they cling to their armed guards and closed communtiies whenever their beliefs are questioned or when a Wright video tape is played.
Thank you Snobama. You're the gift that keeps on giving.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at April 16, 2008 10:23 AM (LHaZf)
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In the Mail...
My friend Iraq War combat journalist Michael Yon just published his newest book, Moment of Truth in Iraq: How a New 'Greatest Generation' of American Soldiers is Turning Defeat and Disaster into Victory and Hope.
He sent me a copy, which was waiting for me when I got home last night. I'm going to try to carve some time out in my schedule to read it at some point this weekend or early next week and read it so I can give you a review.
Mike has spent more time embedded with soldiers in Iraq than any other journalist
period, and therefore has a very good idea of what is actually happening in Iraq, something that rational people should consider when they read
this article from him in today's
Wall Street Journal.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:58 AM
| Comments (23)
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1
I ordered mine a few days ago, sight unseen.
After reading Mike's excellent reports from Iraq over the last few years, it's the least I could do.
Kudos Mike. May you one day earn that Pulitzer.
Posted by: Justacanuck at April 12, 2008 02:40 AM (hgxwr)
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I bought two months ago. I got them this week.
Michael Yon has told the real story of the Iraq war for good or bad. But he has told it truthfully as he sees it unlike the much vaunted MSM.
Posted by: Robohobo at April 13, 2008 01:11 AM (vQ/fo)
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This book looks like a must read on the topic. Yon, Totten, Roggio and others are models to be followed in future wars.
Posted by: Mark Eichenlaub at April 13, 2008 01:35 PM (W4zkU)
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Posted by: espn top nba at April 19, 2008 09:59 PM (Rohp4)
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April 09, 2008
Is Barack Obama a Communist?
It is reprehensible that we are this deep into a U.S. presidential election run and this question is on the table, but that is what can happen when political parties and the media anoint a candidate based upon rhetoric and marketability instead of vetting him for substance.
A blog called
The Obama Report has
passed along an
Accuracy in Media account that cites Communist Party USA member Frank Marshall Davis as Barack Obama's mentor:
In his books, Obama admits attending "socialist conferences" and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a "hard-core academic Marxist," which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes.
However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his "poetry" and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just "Frank."
The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What's more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.
Ace notes:
Barack Obama has been swimming in a sea of left radicalism all his life, from his communist dad to his firebrand America-hating preacher to his terrorist buddy Bill Ayers.
Barack Obama is very vague about his actual politics and few have bothered asking.
So I'm asking:
What are Barack Obama's politics?
Is Obama "merely" another radical leftist like another one of his mentors,
Saul Alinsky?
Is he a Marxist, as would befit his continued 20-year association with a church founded on the Marxism underlying Black Liberation Theology?
Is he a socialist revolutionary with Maoist tendencies that wants to wage war against the United States like his close friend, fellow Woods Fund board member, and domestic terrorist William Ayers?
Is he a communist, like his mentor Davis, his father, his
ethic-cleansing, Islamist-coddling cousin, and even his own wife Michelle Obama, who insisted
just yesterday the thought that, "someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more."
At this point we simply do not know where along the radical leftist continum Barack Obama's thoughts reside, because no one has ever pressed him on his beliefs or his meager record.
For the media, it might be nice to know these things before Obama sews up the Democratic nomination.
Update: Captain Ed has
related thoughts on the underlying philosophy of "statism" that plagues both remaining Democratic contenders.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:07 AM
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1
Another example of how media bias cuts against its beneficiaries. If the MSMers were really doing there jobs Barack would have never won IA as the facts in that early Rolling Stone piece would have sunk him if only they were known to the electorate. The MSM endeavors to protect Dems from the truth. They overestimate their abilities.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 09, 2008 11:40 AM (LF+qW)
2
Does Ms. Obama really think the US economy is a zero-sum economy?
How removed from reality is this person?
Posted by: Conservative CBU at April 09, 2008 11:46 AM (La7YV)
3
I would imagine that a Communist legislator would seek to pass Communist legislation. To my knowledge, Obama never sought to introduce or pass legislation nationalizing property and outlawing religion. Also, he made a pile of money and kept most of it. So, to answer your question CY: No he's not a Communist since he doesn't practice Communism. However, since it's impossible to prove a negative, I suppose you should go right on peddling innuendo. Or, you could try to provide a thoughtful evaluation of the issue as to exactly what Obama's politics are without pulling a Joe McCarthy. How bout it?
Posted by: Craig at April 09, 2008 12:24 PM (0MZfd)
4
It's rather obvious that he is not openly running as a communist, but then, he isn't openly running on much of anything, is he? He's running on rhetoric and a pretty face, which is my complaint, if you read the post.
His few known positions and philosophies are all far leftist in nature (just like his voting record) and his campaign proposals will ad something around $287 billion dollars to the federal budget deficit, which I think doubles what even Hillary proposes in new entitlements (MCain's proposals added just $5 billion, which still stinks, but which is a godsend comparatively).
As for what he proposes legislatively, it hasn't been much of anything, for his entire brief career. He's advocated the confiscation/ban of private property in the form of firearms and refuses to recognize an individual right to self defense, which are totalitiarian positions.
Communist? I think that argument can be made.
He hasn't yet tried to nationalize corporate property, but promising to take money (also property) from you for the common good is the same thing in my mind. That is certainly a statist philosophy. Is it communist? Marxist?
I'd like to know. Perhaps if the media did their jobs, we'd know. I've tried to contact the Obama campaign for comment on a past article for Pajamas Media, but they refused to answer back.
Barack Obama isn't running on his record, he's running despite having one, and he owes it to use to display it before we consider voting for him.
Or would you rather we vote first, and find out about his beliefs later?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at April 09, 2008 12:53 PM (xNV2a)
5
Of course he's not running as a "communist." The communist motto is "communism for thee but not for me." Therefore it's not surprising he kept his money. He just wants to take it from other people.
I wonder, since McCarthy was proven right, if people like Craig get embarrassed when making such intellectually dishonest remarks?
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 09, 2008 01:11 PM (kNqJV)
6
Craig sd:
" Also, he made a pile of money and kept most of it. "
Where have you been for the past 60 years?
Communism is for the hoi-poi not the elite. That is why Castro has a personal wealth of over 100 million dollars and the Politburo in the USSR shopped at their own shopping centers not those of the peons.
You don't honestly expect Michele Obama to share her income, hell, she is crying because she can't make it on 400K a year. Liberals\Leftist are so stupid, everyone of them expects everyone else to "give up their share of the pie" but not themselves. Ever wonder why Rockefeller, Kennedy, Cozine, or Pelosi have not given away most of their families fortune while pushing socialist\communist policies for decades on the rest of America?
As for Obama, it is apparent that he is leftist nut who would be hanging out with Sheehan and Codepink in Berkerly except some Democratic bigwig heard one of his speeches. His belief and policies are the same as the morons you see marching in the protests with paper-mache puppets on their head only he came in a package which the MSM thought they could guilt America into voting in office. Only the liberals of the Democratic party are that stupid.
Posted by: LogicalSC at April 09, 2008 01:17 PM (ETOgT)
7
Questioning what his policies/politics are is fair and appropriate. But filling the void with suppositions that the guy is Communist/Marxist/ethnic-cleansing-islamist-coddling is quite another. You did both in your post; yes, I read the whole thing.
As to Communism, you say "promising to take money (also property) from you for the common good is [Communism] in my mind. That is certainly a statist philosophy. Is it communist? Marxist?" By any accepted definition (look it up), the answer is: No, it is not the same. But beyond that, take a hard look around and tell me that you'd do away with all of the services provided by the government (fed and state) that are paid for by taking (i.e. taxes) from you and me for the common good. For example, police, fire, roads, utilities, military, air traffic control, and so forth. Assuming there's at least one tax-paid gov't service you won't live without, you're a Commie under your definition. Obviously, you're not and neither is Obama just because he may want certain things paid for by taxes. Likewise, you want the Iraq war that is paid for by my taxes, and thus are taking from me for the alleged good of the Iraqis, but you're not a Commie because of it.
Bottom line is that 99.99% of us accept the Social Contract to one degree or another. What separates so-called liberals and conservatives is where the line is that delineates the amount of freedom we give up for an orderly society. 99.99% are together up through utilities, police and fire, military, food and drug regulation, and so forth. Then both liberals and conservatives branch off in ways that are not straight-forward or predictable. Lefty issues today blend more freedom from gov't intrusion (no gov't eavesdropping, gov't out of private decisions like abortion and life support) and less (health care mandates, environmental regulations). Righty issues likewise blend more freedom (less taxes, less overall regulation) with less freedom (abortion regulation, Terry Schiavo, eavesdropping, prayer in school). Lots of folks on the right like to forget the extent to which they are, in fact, willing to pay for the collective good. Disagree? Try to imagine how free you would feel if you had to defend your property full time, put out your own house fire, pave your own road, barter for all goods, and never know if your Viagra had been through Level III clinical trials. There are people like this, but they live off the grid in Alaska, and it is hard work with little time left over for blogging and posting smart-alecy comments. J.
Posted by: Craig at April 09, 2008 01:30 PM (0MZfd)
8
Cap-Inf: C'mon, man. Take my arguments head on, or don't waste the key strokes. An argument, btw, is not where you call me "intellectually dishonest." Rather, it's where you do this or something similar: "A=B, B=C, therefore A=C. Craig is a big stupid dummy head because A=D and D does not equal B or C, and thus his argument fails."
Cap-Inf and LogicalSC: I take your points to be that lack of proof of Commie legislation and ideology does not mean that he may yet try to enslave us all in Communism; meanwhile, he'd be living the high life. First, a true believer in Communism would practice "pure" Communism, and there's no evidence Obama is or was a practicing Communist. As to whether he would later advocate it but live a non-Commie lifestyle, is a separate issue...but is also completely far fetched and lacking in any factual basis. I can imagine Obama doing this as well as I can imagine McCain doing this. The only thing I can't imagine is a 4-sided triangle. Doesn't mean it's probable.
Look, don't vote for Obama if you don't want to. In the meantime, however, don't just make stuff up out of whole cloth because you want McCain to win. That, Cap-Inf, is intellectually dishonest because you are basing arguments on made-up premises or barely couching them in something like "I'm not saying he does, but how can we be sure he doesn't eat Christian babies?"
Posted by: Craig at April 09, 2008 01:50 PM (0MZfd)
9
I doubt that Obama is a communist. However, he has certainly surrounded himself over the years with a whole array of individuals whom he has characterized variously as "mentors," "advisors," and/or "close associates." Following are some observations that capture the essential point of this post, namely, "Exactly who is Obama and what does he stand for?"
"Democrats should now ask themselves how a party of supposed racial transcendence inevitably ended up with primaries predicated along hardening racial lines, and a unity, trans-racial candidate who for twenty years was intimate with a pastor and spiritual advisor who seems to have derided almost everyone and everything, from America, to Italians, to Jews and Israel, to whites and moderate blacks, with serial slurs worthy of a Don Imus or Michael Richards."
The virulent anti-Semitism among some of Obama's supporters, beyond just Wright, is especially troubling. This excerpt from one of the official Obama campaign websites is illustrative:
"Obamanism is the cure for Clintonitis that has devastated America and I hope Jews all over US rally around Obama and support him to win both the nomination and the Presidency because after he wins, he would help the Jews and Israel as well as settle the Middle East problems.
"However, if Jews betray Obama and he loses, Africans worldwide would consider it a betrayal to the whole African people and will never forgive world Jewry.
"In retaliation, (eye for eye, remember!) Africa would consider expelling all Jews from Africa who have been mining African Gold and Diamond and enriching themselves for many centuries."
The post from which the above comments were extracted has been removed just today, after being on that site since early March. The issue remains: Just who is Obama, and what does he personally believe?
Posted by: Clark at April 09, 2008 02:28 PM (AiJXe)
10
You don't need to surmise based on folks he has associated himself with what his politics are. All you need to do is look at his record. On abortion, he is simply a radical. He is not only in favor of partial birth abortion but he has gone so far as infanticide in the Illinois Senate.
On the borders, he is in favor of any open borders policy and he has a close relationship with the radical group La Raza.
On the second amendment, he is on record as now being against conceal carry permits. He is in favor of D.C.'s gun ban and in 1996 was against gun ownership entirely.
These are all radical positions and they are of public record.
Posted by: Mike Volpe at April 09, 2008 03:30 PM (86F5q)
11
Obama is a blank sheet of paper. So how would you fill it out describing the man?
By his actions? 20 Years or so in the public arena and can anyone here provide me with a resume complete with accomplishments? complete with 130 votes of "Present" in the Illinois State Legislature. Didn't think so.
By his words? Give me a break. Everybody here sees Politicians as someone who will say anything to get a vote. Look at Hillary and her Bosnia Fable. Obama himself has to answer to the NAFTA question.
By his writings? JFK accepted a Pulitzer Prize for "Profiles in Courage" Except JFK did not write the book. Next!
By his acquaintances and friends? Bingo! If you got nothing else to judge the character of a person, he is a mirror image of who his friends are. And Obama has some very strange friends for someone who claims he represents the main stream.
If I am wrong, correct me. Show me how we can fill out the blank piece of paper called Barrack Obama and i will be glad to do so. Until then, I remain skeptical of the man, his wife, his politics and his intentions.
Posted by: SShiell at April 09, 2008 04:07 PM (8UXyu)
12
Craig, when you flat out lie there really isn't any reason to respond. You lose all credibility
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 09, 2008 04:07 PM (kNqJV)
13
I've been calling him a commie from nearly day one. It was much in jest (or so I thought) until the Wright controversy came out and I learned Trinity was based more on Black Liberation Theology than what is expected from a COC. BLT is itself based on Liberation Theology. They both use Identity Politics and MARXIST political theory. In Essence, It Is Communism with God added and Atheism removed.
So if he really believes the tenets of his theological mentor, he is, whether he admits it to himself or anyone else, a communist.
Posted by: JP at April 09, 2008 04:19 PM (Tae/a)
14
yeah, I forgot about the Black Panthers, and their little red books of Mao.
But Mao knew true communism didn't work, but it works great to get one's self into a position of power. Is Obama trying that route? Use the teachings to form platitudes in order to ingratiate himself into peoples minds, and get himself elected into positions of power?
I don't think he'll get as far as he'd like if that is true.
Posted by: JP at April 09, 2008 04:27 PM (Tae/a)
15
Is Obama a capital C communist? I doubt it, nobody but FBI Agents have joined the CPUSA since Obama was about two years old.
Is Obama of the far left? Certainly. So, Obama isn't a Communist. He will do, though, until a Communist comes along.
Posted by: Peter at April 09, 2008 06:09 PM (AiJXe)
16
Cap, you actually expected an Obama defender to tell the truth? If one of them told me stone was hard I'd try out a rock as a pillow.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 09, 2008 06:12 PM (5m1ld)
17
Good to know that citizens of a country with a Communist government own the companies they work for. I wonder if comsympinko ever lived (not visited as a tourist) in a Communist country! When Communists confiscate (steal) private property, the new owner is the state. No individual owns stocks in any company - they do not have a stake in companies as he says - how ignorant can you be! They don't even own the house they live in. I have lived under Communism. Thanks to the Communists, the Cuban workers now earn an average of less than US$20.00 per month.
Craig thinks that he can fool you. Obama is rated as the most liberal Senator in the U.S. Senate. When Fidel Castro came to power in Cuba, he lied as to what his real plans were. When he consolidated power, he confessed to the population that he was a Communist. If Obama agreed with Communism, he would not tell the American public that those were his feelings. He would lie, as all Communists do, until they consolidate their power. As far as the difference between socialists and conservatives; the socialists confiscate your properties (in many cases they do not even pay for them, they steal them!). The Socialist countries have ration cards to buy goods. You can only buy what you are allowed to buy, nothing else (that is if you are lucky to find those goods). The government is the owner of all the means of communications; you only get government propaganda 24 hours a day. The Socialist governments do not like gays. Individuals with HIV are placed in concentration camps so that they cannot spread the disease. Most Socialist countries have what in Cuba is called the CDR, which is the block government spies (every block has a government spy). If you disagree with the government, you could possibly be put in jail for several years. This is real freedom. I could go on. But is this the liberalism / socialism some of you are yearning for? This is what Vladimir Lenin used to call the "useful idiots of the West". All of you socialists are going to say that Health and Education are two things that have really improved in Cuba. If you know anything about this subject, you would know that this is a lie - but no matter what the facts are, those of you that endorse socialism will believe whatever Castro or our mainstream media says.
It is pitiful to see individuals give opinions on subjects that they know nothing about.
Posted by: mianola at April 09, 2008 06:26 PM (5FOuD)
18
This is really funny. As if calling someone a communist still had any meaning. Talk about living in the past! Maybe calling him a terrorist or a traitor or something might be more effective - that seems to be the Rovian thing to do lately. But communist? That's, like, Nixonian.
I think Confederate Yankee needs to stop hyperventilating, take a DEEP breath, and calm down.
Posted by: Dave Johnson at April 09, 2008 06:26 PM (a+eEb)
19
C. I.: it is clearly unfair to refer to how communists *actually* act; you must behave as if they hold to their ideals, and nothing else.
After all, no Republican ever supports pork, no Christian ever sins, no environmentalist flies around in private jets and no "free thinker" ever copies their view whole-sale from someone else.
Posted by: Foxfier at April 09, 2008 06:29 PM (s2ydv)
20
No in his own words he is a 'collectivist'. Well in the end Yes he is a communist.
Posted by: bill-tb at April 09, 2008 06:45 PM (7evkT)
21
First paragraph:
You don't need to surmise based on folks he has associated himself with what his politics are.
Next paragraph:
and he has a close relationship with the radical group La Raza.
Awesome. You guys really are the tops.
By the way weren't liberals "fascists" just, like, last month?
And Craig is right up and down the line in his post. Calling him a liar, when what he writes is plainly obvious to anyone with a pulse, really makes y'all look like hillbillies.
Posted by: Jay B. at April 09, 2008 07:50 PM (x7Shh)
22
Wow, that is jaw droppingly stupid.
Posted by: Dave at April 09, 2008 07:52 PM (vziOh)
23
You will certainly be one of the first to the gulag in January when Comrade Obama wins. Personally, I can't wait for an increase in our vodka rations!
Posted by: reid at April 09, 2008 08:21 PM (9CWvm)
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Dont know if he a communist, but he sure is an idiot, a rascist and a liar.
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrr at April 09, 2008 10:42 PM (2wI6h)
25
You know, "COMMUNIST!!!", "LEFT-WING EXTREMIST!!!", and "SCARY BLACK MAN WHO GOES TO SCARY RACIST BLACK CHRISTIAN CHURCH....WHO IS ALSO A SECRET MUSLIM!!!" are all very substantive and thoughtful ways to attack Obama....but, shouldn't you, I don't know, think of something better?
Do you think this kind of thing is going to win McCain the election? Hyperventilation about how scary and extremist Obama is? The guy's been in politics a while now; if he was really a Communist, don't you think we'd know by now? Or are you saying he's possibly a Manchurian candidate? Gotta watch out for those Manchurian candidates...especially scary black ones...
Posted by: Desmond at April 09, 2008 11:20 PM (UtOaJ)
26
Stock options? Profit sharing? Employee ownership? Never heard of 'em.
Oh, and when those last 3 comments disappear, cosmy, it will be because of your potty mouth, not your truthyness. Just to be clear.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 01:29 AM (yTndK)
27
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 04/10/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at April 10, 2008 09:43 AM (gIAM9)
28
All you all making fun of CY - you DO know that communists are still around, right? Code Pink has ties to a Maoist group called The World Can't Wait, for example, and I think there are a few more avowedly communist groups in the peace movement these days.
If you read CY's post, you might note that he is pointing out that Obama's major associates range from radicals to hard-core communists, and that he has not given much indication where he stands along that spectrum. Given that, it is not inappropriate to wonder if he may indeed be a communist of some sort, though I doubt it. That he has sympathies with hard-core communism I find extremely likely.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 10, 2008 09:45 AM (C8cpV)
29
"You don't need to surmise based on folks he has associated himself with what his politics are. All you need to do is look at his record. On abortion, he is simply a radical. He is not only in favor of partial birth abortion but he has gone so far as infanticide in the Illinois Senate.
On the borders, he is in favor of any open borders policy and he has a close relationship with the radical group La Raza.
On the second amendment, he is on record as now being against conceal carry permits. He is in favor of D.C.'s gun ban and in 1996 was against gun ownership entirely.
These are all radical positions and they are of public record."
Posted by: Mike Volpe at April 9, 2008 03:30 PM
So, because Obama voted against an outright ban on partial birth abortion, a very rare procedure performed only to save the life of the mother, he is pro-infanticide? Mike, point us to the "public record" where Obama states "I support legalized infanticide." Calling someone who supports Dialation and Extraction abortion procedures being available to doctors when necessary to save a woman's life and early term abortions in general a supporter of infanticide is completely, well, infantile.
I have no doubt that Obama does not agree with the Minutemen and Michelle Malkin, but, again, please show us this "public record" statement of support for the "radical" La Raza organization.
Finally, being against conceal and carry gun permits and supportive of the DC gun ban is hardly "radical." It might be controversial, but it is a position held by many Americans. Supporting tougher restrictions on gun ownership is certainly no more controversial than pre-emptive war theory, which apparently both Clinton and McCain supported and continue to support. Obama would be radical to support a total ban on gun ownership in America considering the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution and our history of gun ownership rights, but in 1996 Obama answered affirmatively to a question as to whether he supported a total ban on hand-gun ownership - not all guns - a position he has long since disavowed anyways.
Posted by: jlo at April 10, 2008 10:03 AM (Svedi)
30
"Of course he's not running as a 'communist.' The communist motto is 'communism for thee but not for me.' Therefore it's not surprising he kept his money. He just wants to take it from other people.
I wonder, since McCarthy was proven right, if people like Craig get embarrassed when making such intellectually dishonest remarks?"
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 9, 2008 01:11 PM
OK, Cappy, I'll bite - what is your source for McCarthy being "proven right"?
Posted by: jlo at April 10, 2008 10:11 AM (Svedi)
31
This is laughable. It's also ignorant. Not stupid -- ignorant. Calling Obama a communist is a wonderful masturbatory excess that probably makes the writer feel better (temporarily), but it accomplishes little and illuminates nothing. You goobers sit by and passively accept the wholesale corruption of the Bush administration, and then argue whether Obama is a Communist?
Jeez, Louise.
Posted by: awgee at April 10, 2008 11:25 AM (g8nb4)
32
Is he a communist, like his mentor Davis, his father, his ethic-cleansing, Islamist-coddling cousin, and even his own wife Michelle Obama, who insisted just yesterday the thought that, "someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more."
People have been giving up pieces of the pie so that others may have more in America for a long time. Of course, it's usually been people at the bottom of the income scale who are doing the giving up, and people at the top who are getting fat off all those extra helpings of dessert, but whatever.
Posted by: spencer at April 10, 2008 12:05 PM (4hiy4)
33
jlo -
Partial birth abortion cannot be performed to "save the life of the mother" because it is identical to birth in every way except for the feet coming out first and the abortionist punching a hole in the baby's skull *just* before full birth and vacuuming out the brain-matter.
Also, the bill he objected to was for when PBA fails-- and there is simply a birth. The bill recognized that the child who was just born is, despite the failed attempt to kill it, a human with full rights.
Apparently, you are also ignorant about the files that Russia released that said "yes, we were trying to take over your county from within. Yeah, X, Y and Z really *were* on the payroll."
http://conspiraciesthatweretrue.blogspot.com/2007/01/senator-joe-mccarthy-charges-proven.html
There's nothing wrong with being ignorant-- there are many things I don't know-- but you might want to research a little before you start trying to attack based on that ignorance.
Posted by: Foxfier at April 10, 2008 12:12 PM (s2ydv)
34
What's so laughable about this, is the inattention paid to the real, demonstrable, and current threats to our civil liberties posed by the present Administration. Does anyone understand that 'convervation' means to preserve? Can anyone explain how signing statements and Gitmo conserve and protect the principles enunciated in the Constitution?
Posted by: awgee at April 10, 2008 12:33 PM (g8nb4)
35
awgee,
I say let them keep it up. All this bloviating about Obama the _____ist while ignoring the fiascos of the worst presidency of our lifetimes just goes to show how intellectually bankrupt the modern conservative movement is.
I look forward to the massacre in November.
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 12:50 PM (UtOaJ)
36
Desmond, no need to talk about Carter, we're talking about Obamas' communist leanings.
mianola, I dated a girl who came from Russian when she was 21. I guess that would have been 1989. The thing she says amazed her the most were the grocery stores. She couldn't believe how much food there was. She said she didn't recognize over 90% of the food. In Russia "grocery stores" were one room with 4 shelves. You had to get there at 3am if you wanted to get your ration of meet. If you wanted "fresh" bread you had to stand in line for at least 3 hours. She also couldn't believe how much food she could by with what little money she had. I learned so much from her, a great person to talk to.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 10, 2008 01:13 PM (kNqJV)
37
Quite telling, Desmond.
You Obama supporters don't profess any interest at all in what he stands for, only that he stands against a man that isn't even running, on the condition he wouldn't have voted to start a war as a state senator, based upon intelligence he did not have access too, meaning he was making his decision based upon deep levels of ignorance. Do any of you realize how daft that is?
Obama supporters are a sad lot, professing a messianic faith in a man they know nothing about, who has done nothing, and who promises nothing... except "change."
As for the November massacre, I'm looking forward to it. McCain is presently up 51%-40% over Hillary and 48%-42% over Obama, and if McCain paired with Condie Rice, they'd even take the bluest of blue states, New York, no matter who the Dems run against them.
Be he communist, Marxist, or just the most radicalized liberal member of the Senate, Barack Obama's pending loss might make McGovern's defeat look good. Should be fun, and perhaps a teachable moment for you guys the next time around: vet your candidates before you decide on them. Ironically, it may end up proving the superdelegate system fatally flawed: wasn't it created to prevent another McGovern?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at April 10, 2008 01:14 PM (xNV2a)
38
This from the far left CNN, even though the leftist news agency still attempts to smear McCarthy the article itself proves McCarthy right.
"In fact, more than 350 Americans secretly worked for Soviet intelligence during World War II -- when the United States and the Soviet Union were allies. A number of them served in very high positions in the U.S. government. Harry Dexter White was assistant secretary of the Treasury and played a key role in creating the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, pillars of the postwar world monetary structure. Lauchlin Currie was one of a half-dozen special assistants to President Franklin Roosevelt. Laurence Duggan was in charge of U.S. relations with Latin America.
All of these spies were uncovered in the Venona decryptions in the late 1940s. But the spies uncovered by Venona were only part of the security problem faced by U.S. counter-intelligence agencies. Fewer than half of the Americans mentioned in the Venona cables were able to be identified; the others were hidden behind cover names that the FBI could not penetrate. Who were the other 150 Americans who worked for the KGB? Had they remained in the government or the military? Were they scientists still working in Los Alamos?"
You can read the article here
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 10, 2008 01:21 PM (kNqJV)
39
Yankee, I know quite well what Obama stands for, thank you very much, and thankfully, he does not stand for idiotic and unjustified invasions of other countries. The only "ignorance" here was thinking that the invasion and occupation of Iraq would lead to a favorable outcome.
It astounds me how you guys continue to attack anti-war people with words like "ignorance", even though they were completely vindicated, and you were completely and resoundingly wrong.
And if you think a poll here or there means ANYTHING at this point, I really have to question your intelligence. Just for the record, the RCP average of polls has Obama LEADING McCain. Check for yourself:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
Of course, this doesn't mean anything until the general election campaign starts.
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 01:41 PM (UtOaJ)
40
Desmond -
You keep on accusing the current government of being hugely horribly dangerous and taking away so much...
Please, give news links to real Americans who have REALLY been attacked.
Of course, I don't expect you to have any decent evidence-- if evidence meant anything to you, you wouldn't be spouting such nonsense about the Iraqi war.
Posted by: Foxfier at April 10, 2008 02:23 PM (s2ydv)
41
Well, I'm not Desmond, but I'll jump in. There's a German of Lebanese ancestry who was picked up in the Balkans and shipped to Afghanistan. He was held for a good while then released. The Bushies hid behind the states secrets provisions so he's starting to seek justices in interntional venues. It's all over the news today, so you should be able to find it without trouble, Foxfire.
Of course, he's not an American, so maybe he's not entitled to basic human rights, is that what you're saying, Foxfire?
Posted by: awgee at April 10, 2008 02:31 PM (g8nb4)
42
Foxfier, what the hell are you rambling about?
I didn't say anything about the current government being dangerous. If you ask me, the main problem with the Bush administration is how outrageously incompetent he and his administration have been.
But that they are ALSO "dangerous" is clear when you consider that they are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq for no good reason, that they have bankrupted the entire country, that they have broken the army and become pinned down in a quagmire in Iraq, and that they have eroded civil liberties and approved the use of torture.
But I guess you don't mind illegal spying, illegal detentions, and illegal torture of innocent people as long as they have Muslim names, right? They aren't "real Americans" right?
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 02:38 PM (UtOaJ)
43
Cap-Inf: I loved the Yakov Smirnoff spiel. "In America, you catch a cold. In Russia, cold catches you!" "Good person to talk to"?!?!?!....don't you know loose lips sink ships? She was probably a Commie spy and told her KGB handlers all about you, son.
Posted by: Craig at April 10, 2008 02:43 PM (0MZfd)
44
And, oh yeah, Foxfire,
There's the case of that taxi driver in Afghanistan that died in American custody. They made a movie about it -- called Taxi to the Dark Side. Won an Oscar, I believe.
You could go see it, maybe. That is, if you were really interested in learning something.
But then, he's not an American, is he? Guess he doesn't count either.
Posted by: awgee at April 10, 2008 02:58 PM (g8nb4)
45
CY-
Just want to point out that your man said the following in a speech today:
"Let me make it clear that that in these challenging times, I am committed to using all the resources of this government and great nation to create opportunity and make sure that every deserving American has a good job and can achieve their American dream."
Commies, Commies everywhere.....Taking "ALL THE RESOURCES" of this Great Nation to redistribute so that everyone can achieve their American Dream (or have their appropriately-sized slice of the pie). I'm sure we'll all be entertained when you try to square McCain's unvarnished words with what you said about Obama's (unsubstantiated) plans to use the State to take and redistribute.
Posted by: Craig at April 10, 2008 03:16 PM (0MZfd)
46
Craig, don't you get it? Obama is a SCARY BLACK MAN who "ignorantly" opposed the Iraq war and whose wife supports the redistribution of pies, and therefore cannot be trusted. While McCain is a honorable hero, maverick, straight-talker, and foreign policy expert who will only wast trillions of dollars and illegally invade other countries when it's absolutley necessary.
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 03:20 PM (UtOaJ)
47
idiotic and unjustified invasions of other countries isn't scary and/or bad?
Noted, Desmond.
By the way...are you just going to set there yelling how you think Obama is scary and all, being half-black, or are you actually going to engage in arguments?
We really don't care what scares you about political leader's DNA....
Awgee- if I got my news from movies, I might be swayed....
Details of his death have not been made public by the United States Army, which said simply that Mr. Dilawar had coronary artery disease and had died of a heart attack.
So...we cause heart disease? Dang... Learn something new every day.
Posted by: Foxfier at April 10, 2008 03:41 PM (s2ydv)
48
Laughter always.
Foxfier, you crack me up. That movie I mentioned is a pretty decent documentary. Pity you haven't seen it. You might learn something. Or maybe you'll even become curious. Like, why hasn't the Army relased "details of his death?"
As far as Obama being a communist, I'll go back to my original comment: Jeez, Louise. Ignorance unbound.
Posted by: awgee at April 10, 2008 04:00 PM (g8nb4)
49
What are Barack Obama's politics?
He has a website you know. It's pretty much all right there. You'll note a lack of reference to ethnic cleansing, socialism or Marxism.
Posted by: Xanthippas at April 10, 2008 04:47 PM (grpsM)
50
Awgee- I will admit you have a great deal of opportunity to experience ignorance. Steel-bound, even.
Xanthippas- you mean the one that had a link to the Black Panther Party until it was mentioned on talk radio?
Posted by: Foxfier at April 10, 2008 05:53 PM (s2ydv)
51
Foxfier:
I see that your reading comprehension and research abilities are limited to what is spoon-fed to you by right-wing blogs, talk radio, and Fox News. Actually finding out what Obama's positions are is just too difficult a task for a fella like you. Too many big words to wade through.
Calling him a COMMIE! or SCARY RACIST BLACK PANTHER RADICAL! is so much easier, and requires much less brainpower.
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 06:03 PM (UtOaJ)
52
Desmond- my final response to you:
you might want to be careful on that "research" pride... I'm a woman.
Posted by: Foxfier at April 10, 2008 06:39 PM (s2ydv)
53
Yankee, I know quite well what Obama stands for, thank you very much, and thankfully, he does not stand for idiotic and unjustified invasions of other countries.
Desmond, Desmond, Desmond... you really gotta stop sticking your head so far up your backside... we're gonna have to start pumping oxygen in your navel to permit you to breathe.
Now, please read this article--specifically the first paragraph--before you make any more silly and asinine comments about invasions of other nations.
Unless, of course, you want to display your absolute (but hardly shocking, given whom you are defending) lack of knowledge about what's going on.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 06:56 PM (yDWgl)
54
Foxfier said:
"you might want to be careful on that "research" pride... I'm a woman."
And I was supposed to know that...how, exactly? Congratulations, you're a woman. More power to you.
CCG:
Obama has NEVER, to my knowledge, advocated "invading" Pakistan. He has advocated taking action against Al Qaeda in Pakistan if there is actionable intelligence and the Pakistani government cannot or will not act. Not the same thing as invading Iraq, overthrowing its government, and occupying the country for years and years.
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 07:26 PM (UtOaJ)
55
Desmond, I am very sorry, I haven't received the latest edition of the Newspeak Dictionary, so I dunno what you Obamamaniacs are using for a definition of "invade." Heck, I don't even know what you think the definition of "is" is, nor do I give a flying fig.
In the non-Obama world, however, "invade" includes sending troops into Pakistan to attack Al Qaeda without the permission of the Pakistani government.
Now, if you truly want to try to argue that such action would not constitute an "invasion," then feel free... you'll just make yourself look like even more of a clueless dunderhead than you do now.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 08:13 PM (yDWgl)
56
I'm sorry, when has Obama advocated "sending troops into Pakistan"?
He has advocated striking terrorists in Pakistan by unspecified means (presumably airstrikes), but by that definition, Bill Clinton "invaded" Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998.
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 08:43 PM (UtOaJ)
57
Hey Foxfier, I'm back!
So, you think it's cool to pull innocent folks off the street and shove them into an internment camp, without charge and holding them indefinitely?
Or are you of the school that whomever the US picks up (or has handed to them by foreign nationals in the pay of the US) is OBVIOUSLY guilty of something and deserves to be salted away to await a show trial at the convenience of some military commission?
Hmmmm???
Posted by: awgee at April 10, 2008 08:56 PM (mbsaq)
58
What's so laughable about this, is the inattention paid to the real, demonstrable, and current threats to our civil liberties posed by the present Administration.
Yeah, why are we even talking about Obama anyway? We all know Bu$hitler is going to cancel the elections and declare himself King. Hell, y'all been telling us that for 7 years now. Don't lose faith now.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 08:57 PM (yTndK)
59
I see you've chosen the clueless dunderhead approach, Desmond. That's to be expected, given whom you are defending.
Intelligent people know what an invasion is, and we also know what chance airstrikes have of getting Al Qaeda members. Remember, we launched numerous airstrikes in Afghanistan in the early part of the war, and there were still many members of the Al Qaeda leadership that had to be taken out the old fashioned way, by a human being with boots on the ground, looking down the barrel of his (or her) rifle. Not to mention Saddam being missed by the hundreds if not thousands of airstrikes against Iraq.
You--and your Obamamessiah--show your appalling ignorance of military matters by assuming that airstrikes are a stand-alone means of taking action. They are not, and never have been. Boots on the ground are still needed.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 08:58 PM (yDWgl)
60
So, you think it's cool to pull innocent folks off the street and shove them into an internment camp, without charge and holding them indefinitely?
Or are you of the school that whomever the US picks up (or has handed to them by foreign nationals in the pay of the US) is OBVIOUSLY guilty of something and deserves to be salted away to await a show trial at the convenience of some military commission?
You seem to be of the school of whoever the US picks up is innocent and held without charge. Project much?
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 08:59 PM (yTndK)
61
Yeah, why are we even talking about Obama anyway? We all know Bu$hitler is going to cancel the elections and declare himself King. Hell, y'all been telling us that for 7 years now. Don't lose faith now.
Good point... and that is, of course, after his black helicopters take out Obama and Clinton.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 09:00 PM (yDWgl)
62
Obama has NEVER, to my knowledge, advocated "invading" Pakistan.
Your knowledge needs fixing.
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama issued a pointed warning yesterday to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying that as president he would be prepared to order U.S. troops into that country unilaterally if it failed to act on its own against Islamic extremists.
In his most comprehensive statement on terrorism, the senator from Illinois said that the Iraq war has left the United States less safe than it was before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and that if elected he would seek to withdraw U.S. troops and shift the country's military focus to threats in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
"When I am president, we will wage the war that has to be won," he told an audience at the Woodrow Wilson Center in the District. He added, "The first step must be to get off the wrong battlefield in Iraq and take the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan."
See page two of that piece, where Biden, Edwards, Richardson and Dodd reel him in.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 09:11 PM (yTndK)
63
Pablo and CCG:
Nothing you've posted shows how Obama wants to "order troops into Pakistan". Pablo, that was the Washington Post's interpretation of his remarks, but I'm still waiting for someone to quote OBAMA HIMSELF announcing his intent to "order troops into Pakistan". All I've seen is vague implications about taking the fight to Al Qaeda in Pakistan, or ordering "strikes" on Al Qaeda in Pakistan, which usually translates into airstrikes.
And CCG, airstrikes are OFTEN a standalone means of taking action. Look at Reagan with Libya, or NATO with Kosovo. Don't tell me that in your limitless knowledge of military affairs (as opposed to my "apalling ignorance") you were unaware of those campaigns?
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 09:29 PM (UtOaJ)
64
Desmond, please.
"The first step must be to get off the wrong battlefield in Iraq and take the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan."
We're already doing air attacks in Pakistan, so what do you suppose that means? Are you trying to tell us that Dodd, Edwards, Richardson and Biden all misread him? Really?
If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.
What on Earth do you think that means, other than that we'll send troops in after them? You may be the only person on the planet that thinks it's something other than that.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 09:39 PM (yTndK)
65
Desmond, the same nut-case is in charge in Libya now as was in charge in Reagan's era... so how did his airstrikes change anything?
As for Kosovo, the bombing was in 1999, and fighting broke out again in 2004... and NATO still has a large force there, of which US troops are the fourth largest contingent--out of 24--as of February 2008. (see this PDF.) So the US still has to have boots on the ground, even after your marvelous air war.
Once again, you try to look smart and end up looking even stupider. Do yourself a favor and stop digging that hole you're in before you come out in the Olympic stadium in Beijing.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 09:43 PM (yDWgl)
66
"It is dangerous and irresponsible to leave even the impression the United States would needlessly and publicly provoke a nuclear power," Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (Conn.) said in a statement.
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, in a telephone interview, said that Obama's threat, if acted upon, could inflame the entire Muslim world. "My international experience tells me that we should address this issue with tough diplomacy first with Musharraf and then leave the military option as a last resort," he said.
Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (Del.), chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, called Obama's threat misguided. "The way to deal with it is not to announce it, but to do it," Biden said at the National Press Club. "The last thing you want to do is telegraph to the folks in Pakistan that we are about to violate their sovereignty."
There are all people who endorse Obama.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 09:43 PM (yTndK)
67
"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will."
"Act"? Against "high-value" terrorist targets? Why not do what the Israelis do and stick a missile up their asses? It seems to work pretty well for them. Isn't that "acting"?
And FYI, Dodd, Edwards, Richardson and Biden were all Obama's rivals for the nomination. My God, wouldn't it be SHOCKING if they took his words out of context? Those dastardly Democrats! *rolls eyes*
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 09:44 PM (UtOaJ)
68
"Desmond, the same nut-case is in charge in Libya now as was in charge in Reagan's era... so how did his airstrikes change anything?"
GASP! Are you criticizing St. Ronnie? BLASPHEMY! To the dungeons with you!
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 09:45 PM (UtOaJ)
69
Desmond, we on the right don't deify our leaders, unlike the Obamamessiah. Reagan was wrong on other occasions, as well... like when he granted amnesty to illegal aliens.
Now quit trying to change the topic. You got proven wrong about Obama's invasion plans, admit it and slink back to DailyKOS.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 09:47 PM (yDWgl)
70
And here I thought I'd stay out of the fray...Oh well.
Desmond,
This is one of the MAJOR differences between R-supporters and D-supporters. We actively criticize "our" guys. Your side practically NEVER see "your" guys in any bad light.
Posted by: Mark at April 10, 2008 09:49 PM (KDHro)
71
Reagan was wrong on other occasions, as well... like when he granted amnesty to illegal aliens.
And when he turned tail from Lebanon, and sold arms to Iran.
When he was right, he was right. When he was wrong, man was he wrong. Then again, he was human and not a deity.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 09:54 PM (yTndK)
72
"Act"? Against "high-value" terrorist targets? Why not do what the Israelis do and stick a missile up their asses? It seems to work pretty well for them. Isn't that "acting"?
We're already doing that (ask Adam Gadahn), but it isn't quite as effective in Waziristan as it is in Gaza. But Obama tells us that it isn't enough, and that he's going to go get it done. How, if not what we're already doing? Troops, that's how.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 09:58 PM (yTndK)
73
"Desmond, we on the right don't deify our leaders, unlike the Obamamessiah."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
So Commander Codpiece ISN'T a strong, unwavering, decisive and fearless leader? Ronald Reagan DIDN'T singlehandedly win the Cold War? Next you're going to tell me that McCain isn't a maverick straight-talking war hero. Interesting revelations are these....
For the record, I think what Obama said about Pakistan was stupid, but it didn't amount to advocating an "invasion", no matter how you try to spin it. Nor is it feasible in real-life (as opposed to political rhetoric) to piss off Pakistan.
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 10:02 PM (UtOaJ)
74
Wrong again, Desmond. I've never really been that enthusiastic about McCain, and even criticized him on more than one occasion.
Have you dug your way through to Beijing yet, Desmond?
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 10:08 PM (yDWgl)
75
And of course, CCG speaks for EACH AND EVERY conservative, so that's conclusive proof right there. *rolls eyes again*
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 10:13 PM (UtOaJ)
76
No, I speak only for myself. But if you'd bother to look around, you'd find many conservatives that have had problems with McCain.
But you'll never do that... you're too afraid of being proved wrong, again.
Why don't ya just go back to your lefty echo chamber on DailyKOS?
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 10:18 PM (yDWgl)
77
Ah, willful ignorance. No point in bothering then.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 10:21 PM (yTndK)
78
I buy your criticism of McCain. I know you guys don't like him too much. Which doesn't surprise me, since he's like the least crazy of the whole bunch.
"But you'll never do that... you're too afraid of being proved wrong, again."
I'm sorry, I'm still waiting to be proven wrong ONCE.
"Why don't ya just go back to your lefty echo chamber on DailyKOS?"
Why the hell would I post on Daily Kos? Freakin' echo chamber is right, and half of them are REAL left-wing nutjobs. Riling you guys up is much more fun, especially when dealing with such nonsensical subjects as "Is Barack Obama a Communist?"
Posted by: Desmond at April 10, 2008 10:23 PM (UtOaJ)
79
Nor is it feasible in real-life (as opposed to political rhetoric) to piss off Pakistan.
Therefore, Obama is bulls*itting us for political purposes regarding how he'd use military power. Check.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 10:26 PM (yTndK)
80
Guys, I admire your stamina and skill, but this D dude is a dud.
He will not listen to facts, logic, reason or anything else that is outside of his echo chamber.
Posted by: Foxfier at April 11, 2008 12:19 AM (s2ydv)
81
The ghetto beatdown you all gave to Desmond is a sight to behold. You beat him as if he stole something. And the intellectual nitwit keeps coming back for more.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 11, 2008 01:40 AM (kNqJV)
82
"Desmond, we on the right don't deify our leaders, unlike the Obamamessiah."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
So Commander Codpiece ISN'T a strong, unwavering, decisive and fearless leader? Ronald Reagan DIDN'T singlehandedly win the Cold War? Next you're going to tell me that McCain isn't a maverick straight-talking war hero. Interesting revelations are these....
Notice that in Desmond's caricature, he's using things about those mentioned that refer to actual events and verifiable characteristics. Obama? For him, there's only faith, because there is no record.
But back on topic, and while we're talking about associations, see Rashid Khalidi:
While teaching at the University of Chicago, Khalidi and his wife lived in the Hyde Park neighborhood near the Obamas. The families became friends and dinner companions.
In 2000, the Khalidis held a fundraiser for Obama's unsuccessful congressional bid. The next year, a social service group whose board was headed by Mona Khalidi received a $40,000 grant from a local charity, the Woods Fund of Chicago, when Obama served on the fund's board of directors.
At Khalidi's going-away party in 2003, the scholar lavished praise on Obama, telling the mostly Palestinian American crowd that the state senator deserved their help in winning a U.S. Senate seat. "You will not have a better senator under any circumstances," Khalidi said.
Posted by: Pablo at April 11, 2008 09:01 AM (yTndK)
83
Wow, my last post just got deleted. That's how you guys deal with dissenters, huh? Got your own thought police, do you? Yet OBAMA is the Communist...
Posted by: Desmond at April 11, 2008 10:23 AM (UtOaJ)
84
no, Desmond, thats how we deal with petulant children that can't rein in their profanity and act like a mature adult.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at April 11, 2008 10:26 AM (HcgFD)
85
Amazing, Desmond. It's almost as if my April 10, 2008 01:29 AM post wasn't sitting right here on this very page.
So, is Bob a commie or can Desmond not read? You make the call. I'll take the latter.
Posted by: Pablo at April 11, 2008 10:38 AM (yTndK)
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April 08, 2008
Biden PWN3D Crocker! ...In the Community-Based Reality
For reasons rational people will never fathom, lefty bloggers and blog readers are filled with glee over, well, this:
There was once a blog called Joe Biden Is Thugged Out. (I swear this is true.) Biden just proved why. He asked Ryan Crocker, who used to be ambassador to Pakistan, whether it would be better for U.S. interests to go after Al Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border or Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Crocker, in an impossible political position -- give the correct answer and humiliate the Bush administration; give the administration's answer and look like a fool -- dodged as much as he could. Then Biden forced him down. Crocker: "I would therefore pick Al Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border."
Biden "forced him down" how, exactly?
Clearly Ackerman, the flickering bulbs at
Think Progress and other gloating liberals didn't actually hear how Crocker responded.
Let's go to the videotape:
BIDEN: Mr. Ambassador, is Al Qaeda a greater threat to US interests in Iraq, or in the Afghan-Pakistan border region?
CROCKER: Mr. Chairman, al Qaeda is a strategic threat to the United States wherever it is--
BIDEN: Where is most of it? If you could take it out, you had a choice, the Lord Almighty came down and sat in the middle of the table there, and said, 'Mr. Ambassador, you can eliminate every al Qaeda source in Afghanistan and Pakistan, or every al Qaeda personnel in Iraq, which would you pick?'
CROCKER: Well, given the progress that has been made against al Qaeda in Iraq, the significant decrease in its capabilities, the fact that it is solidly on the defensive and not in a position as far--
BIDEN: Which would you pick?
CROCKER: I would therefore pick Al Qaeda in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border area.
So despite the
cleverly truncated quote at
Think Progress (seriously, when are lefty bloggers going to tire of being set up and used as fools by these shills?) and Ackerman's own deceptive forgetfulness, what Crocker
actually told Biden is that our military had severely damaged the operational capabilities of al Qaeda in Iraq (by
75-percent in the last year alone, according to the Iraqi Interior Ministry) and knocked it into a defensive posture where it is far less of a threat.
How much less of a threat?
According to StrategyPage.com, Osama bin Laden admitted defeat in Iraq on
Oct 22, 2007, a sentiment that Marine Colonel Richard Simcock
shared contemporaneously as it related to al Qaeda's former strongholds in al Anbar in specific. Battered, tattered, and lethally-harassed by coalition soldiers at night and former Sunni Iraqi allies during the day, al Qaeda's morale in Iraq
is crushed, along with most of it's capabilities.
Thanks to Iraqi and coalition efforts, Al Qaeda in Iraq is beaten, fragmented, and on the verge of a final collapse, according to the terror organization itself. With this enemy almost defeated, it is only common sense that Crocker would select the remaining al Qaeda hiding along the Afghan-Pakistani border as being the greater threat.
I guess Ackerman can pretend that Crocker's quite logical response--to advocate the targeting the terrorists that are still alive, instead of those we have already dispatched--is humiliating to the Bush administration, but outside his insular nutroots community, in a land where common sense prevails and truncated quotes are not swallowed at face value time and again, Crocker got the better of this exchange by merely pointing out that we've run out of al Qaeda in Iraq to kill.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:44 PM
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1
Remember when we had to pick between fighting the Germans ot the Japanese?
Me neither.
Posted by: Pablo at April 09, 2008 06:11 AM (ecDT2)
2
I watched "Morning Joe" on MSNBC this morning. The showed the Biden question and response...with the exact ommission you note. The entire context related to the deterioration of AQ in Iraq was omitted.
Posted by: Bill Van Luchene at April 09, 2008 07:35 AM (pSYWf)
3
I guess you and Crocker disagree with Fred Kagan's claim yesterday that Iraq is still the central front in the fight against Al Qaeda, then?
Regards, C
Posted by: Cernig at April 09, 2008 07:38 AM (4TTIp)
4
But the Iraq War Resolution didn't list al Qaeda as an objective for using "all means necessary" in Iraq, so Biden's point is cute but not relevant.
Posted by: Neo at April 09, 2008 07:51 AM (Yozw9)
5
I think I've got the liberals strategy figured out. Ever since the beginning of the war the left has lied and said that al Qaeda was not in Iraq. Now that we've killed off most of al Qaeda in Iraq they can continue to say "see, al Qaeda is not in Iraq."
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at April 09, 2008 08:17 AM (kNqJV)
6
The correct answer was,
"Senator, although I like to believe the almighty is everywhere, it's hard to imagine he spends much time in these chambers."
Posted by: iamnot at April 09, 2008 08:24 AM (q0Pd2)
7
Given the close ties between Al Qaeda and the Democrats and how badly they need one another, I would think that the Dem's would want the US to remain in Iraq and avoid focusing on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.
Posted by: iconoclast at April 09, 2008 09:45 AM (TzLpv)
8
Pablo: "Remember when we had to pick between fighting the Germans or the Japanese?..."
Actually, we did have to pick and we chose to defend England and aid Russia against the Germans as our first priority. However, we clearly also fought the Japanese at the same time.
It was a matter of emphasis - not unlike what we see in the Middle East now. It wasn't then, nor is it now, an all or nothing proposition like the Dems try to make it out to be.
Posted by: in_awe at April 09, 2008 10:38 AM (CuvFw)
9
Once again this incident proves the best policy to live by when reading anything from those rabid moonbat sites is "distrust and verify."
Posted by: daleyrocks at April 09, 2008 10:45 AM (0pZel)
10
"...that would be a smart choice...now let's say the Lord Almighty sat on the table, right there man, and said Selma Hayek or Jessica Alba, but it has to be unprotected - who would you do?"
Posted by: Horsefly at April 09, 2008 01:09 PM (gP77P)
11
However, we clearly also fought the Japanese at the same time.
Precisely my point, and anyone who doesn't get it can look to Adam Gadahn for clarification.
Posted by: Pablo at April 09, 2008 03:09 PM (yTndK)
12
Good news! I take your point: we've beat back AQI so it looks like we can get out of Iraq now.
Posted by: Mike at April 09, 2008 07:57 PM (vt8Y4)
13
I can see Mike in September, 1943. "Well, we beat Italy, so we can pull out of Europe now."
News flash, Mikey: There are more players in this game than just Al Qaeda. Beating one doesn't mean Iraq is safe.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 09, 2008 08:04 PM (5m1ld)
14
So, how many troops shall we send into Pakistan, Mike?
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 01:31 AM (yTndK)
15
Thanks to Iraqi and coalition efforts, Al Qaeda in Iraq is beaten, fragmented, and on the verge of a final collapse, according to the terror organization itself. With this enemy almost defeated, it is only common sense that Crocker would select the remaining al Qaeda hiding along the Afghan-Pakistani border as being the greater threat.
That actually buttresses Biden's point, CY. But thanks for missing that.
Posted by: Xanthippas at April 10, 2008 04:49 PM (grpsM)
16
Iran's state-run media have de facto confirmed that this was no spontaneous "uprising." Rather, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) tried to seize control of Iraq's second-largest city using local Shiite militias as a Trojan horse.
...
Initially, Quds commanders appeared to have won their bet. Their Special Groups and Mahdi Army allies easily seized control of key areas of Basra when more than 500 Iraqi security personnel abandoned their positions and disappeared into the woodwork.
Soon, however, the tide turned. Maliki proved that he had the courage to lead the new Iraqi Security Force (ISF) into battle, even if that meant confronting Iran. The ISF showed that it had the capacity and the will to fight.
...
After more than a week of fighting, the Iraqis forced the Quds commanders to call for a cease-fire through Sadr. The Iraqi commander agreed - provided that the Quds force directly guaranteed it. To highlight Iran's role in the episode, he insisted that the Quds force dispatch a senior commander to finalize the accord.
Looks like al-Sadr was a mere spectator at best, more probable, just an Iranian stooge.
Posted by: Neo at April 10, 2008 06:19 PM (Yozw9)
17
Xan, please see the point I made to Mike earlier.
And next time, try reading before placing fingers on keyboard.
Posted by: C-C-G at April 10, 2008 06:57 PM (yDWgl)
18
That actually buttresses Biden's point, CY. But thanks for missing that.
Yes, it does. Biden's point is that we ought to leave before we've finished them off. That we should leave with them on the verge of a final collapse. Biden is an idiot with a point, which isn't a good one.
You think he'd seen a Bond film or two.
Posted by: Pablo at April 10, 2008 09:02 PM (yTndK)
19
Gentlemen, please remember that this is the GWOT, the Global War on Terror, not the Global War on Al-Queda.
We stay until the fight is won.
Everyone on the idiotic left says that they want to pull out of Iraq and hit AQ in Afghan.
Well gents, guess what? AQ is like a cancer, you can not attack only one part of it and win.
Now sit back and let us do our jobs.
Posted by: Eric at April 11, 2008 03:38 PM (9V6Vj)
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Obama: Foreign Policy Expert?
Yes, that his roughly what Barack Obama asserted during a fundraiser in San Francisco, according to the Huffington Post:
Last night at a fundraiser in San Francisco, Barack Obama took a question on what he's looking for in a running mate. "I would like somebody who knows about a bunch of stuff that I'm not as expert on," he said, and then he was off and running. "I think a lot of people assume that might be some sort of military thing to make me look more Commander-in-Chief-like. Ironically, this is an area--foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain."
"It's ironic because this is supposedly the place where experience is most needed to be Commander-in-Chief. Experience in Washington is not knowledge of the world. This I know. When Senator Clinton brags 'I've met leaders from eighty countries'--I know what those trips are like! I've been on them. You go from the airport to the embassy. There's a group of children who do native dance. You meet with the CIA station chief and the embassy and they give you a briefing. You go take a tour of a plant that [with] the assistance of USAID has started something. And then--you go."
"You do that in eighty countries--you don't know those eighty countries. So when I speak about having lived in Indonesia for four years, having family that is impoverished in small villages in Africa--knowing the leaders is not important--what I know is the people. . . ."
Barack Obama lived in Indonesia from 1967 to 1971. Born in 1961, he's admitting that he brings to the table the foreign policy experience of a 6-10 year old... is that really the depth of experience that he thinks American voters want in a leader? If so, my experiences playing with G.I. Joe when I was that age qualify me to be Secretary of Defense.
As for Obama's family in "small villages in Africa" I'm not sure he wants Americans to focus very much on them.
Supporters of Barack Obama's cousin Raila Odinga were behind an
ethnic cleansing campaign that killed more than 600 in Kenya in January of this year, and part of that included burning men, women, and children alive in a church. Odinga had also promised to institute harsh Sharia courts throughout the country and ban the teaching of Christianity if elected... change Kenyan Islamists can believe in.
As for the experience of his presidential opponents, Obama may have a point about fellow Democratic contender Hillary Clinton having little experience beyond exclusively political trips, but Obama's foreign experiences pale in comparison to those of John McCain, a man born in Panama who moved around the Pacific and the United States as a child as he followed his father's U.S.Navy career. He also built up an impressive travel resume on his own, some of which Obama might have heard about.
In 1982 while running for office in Arizona, McCain delivered a line on his residency in various parts of the world to an opponent that Obama may well want to remember when attempting to play up his own meager life experiences, foreign policy or otherwise:
"Listen, pal. I spent 22 years in the Navy. My grandfather was in the Navy. We in the military service tend to move a lot. We have to live in all parts of the country, all parts of the world. I wish I could have had the luxury, like you, of growing up and living and spending my entire life in a nice place like the first district of Arizona, but I was doing other things. As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi."
McCain, of course, has gone on to develop a bit more foreign policy experience since then as a representative to the House and later as a four-term Senator.
Obama? He may have watched
Sesame Street in Indonesia while his Kenyan relatives
learned communism in East Germany.
Not quite the same thing.
Update: Fellow N.C.-blogger Sister Toldjah has
closely-related thoughts.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:59 AM
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1
I agree with Obama on this one. McCain's clueless.
Posted by: ER at April 08, 2008 01:40 PM (ZLS30)
2
"Barack Obama lived in Indonesia from 1967 to 1971. Born in 1961, he's admitting that he brings to the table the foreign policy experience of a 6-10 year old..."
Pathetic by Obama
Posted by: grrrrrrrrrrrrrr at April 08, 2008 02:53 PM (gkobM)
3
Yippee, I am a foreign policy expert because I lived in Europe as a little kid. I also lived in the Virgin Islands around the time of Granada and saw a battlegroup sail by. So I am a military expert. I also pay taxes, went to school, shot a M1 Garand a bunch of times, etc.
Vote for me for president.
Posted by: David at April 08, 2008 03:34 PM (cPLO6)
4
If Osama's childhood experiences qualify him as a foreign policy expert consider his claims at economic expertise based on his possession of a piggy bank.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at April 08, 2008 05:09 PM (LHaZf)
5
If this is all the foreign policy expertise Obama brings to the table...he should beat McSame handily.
Posted by: Frederick at April 08, 2008 05:25 PM (kz+BU)
6
This lop eared pup makes statements like this and gets people to seriously back him for President. Maybe we need to install some sort of intelligence requirement to be able to vote. Obama is the least qualified candidate to run for the office of President.
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at April 08, 2008 05:26 PM (J5AYY)
7
"Obama is the least qualified candidate to run for the office of President."
Well, that automatically gets him 25-30% of the vote in the USA.
Posted by: iconoclast at April 08, 2008 06:07 PM (M+wD9)
8
I'm not so much on "experience" as a qualifier. It is fair to ask, just what has our experience been with you? and it is easy to spin any reply tendetiously. However in an absence of experience we will look to other qualities. Sadly for Obama, it seems he must hide his true opinions and intentions as they are general election poison. That these same aspects are primary ambrosia for Dems should be a brisk slap in the face for these cats but, alas, no. Rather they aspire to wrench the nation, willingly or not, to the Left; socialism at home and defeatism abroad. This obviously is what it takes to nominate a Dem. If this gets one elected President the end of ordered liberty is truly nigh. But I don't think so.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 09, 2008 11:49 AM (LF+qW)
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As Sadr Collapses...
It becomes increasingly more amusing to watch the "impartial" international news media attempt to spin away unmistakable signs of progress in Iraq. The latest example of this sad phenomena is Reuters' account of Muqtada al Sadr's threat to end a ceasefire:
Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr threatened on Tuesday to end a truce he imposed on his militia last year, raising the prospect of worsening violence just as top U.S. officials prepare to testify on Iraq in Washington.
Sadr urged his Mehdi Army to "continue your jihad and resistance" against U.S. forces, although he did not spell out if this was an explicit call for attacks on American soldiers.
His warning came a day after Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki threatened to bar Sadr's movement from political life if the anti-American cleric did not disband his militia.
Despite the more than 7-month-old ceasefire, Sadr's followers have clashed with Iraqi troops and U.S. forces in the south of the country and Baghdad in the past two weeks in the country's worst violence since the first half of 2007.
al Sadr's Madhi Army suffered hundreds of KIAs—some estimate place as a high as 1%-2% of his entire militia—in operations across southern Iraq in recent weeks. The
failure of the militia and the success of Iraqi forces has encouraged top Sunni, Shia and Kurdish members of the Iraqi government to form a unified front that has demanded that al Sadr
disband the Madhi Army, or run the risk of having his party being disbarred from Iraqi politics.
Sadr's threat to end the truce is the most desperate political option available to him, and one of the few options he has left. His power has been drawn largely from the threat of withdrawing the ceasefire, but if that ceasefire is withdrawn, al Sadr has few more cards to play, and the resulting combat would likely mirror last recent combat on a much larger scale, perhaps resulting in far more physical destruction to his forces.
Sadr
did not win in Basra, and runs the risk of having his militia destroyed if he decides to send it into combat again against an Iraqi Army that is far more competent than al Sadr's militiamen.
Muqtada al Sadr's relevance in Iraq will be determined by the choices he makes in coming days. The only real real question is how much his relevance will be diminished.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Sadr has got us right where he wants us, yup.
Posted by: daleyrocks at April 08, 2008 10:45 AM (0pZel)
2
Look for this MSM spin next: "Sadr and His movement more powerful dead than alive!" or "Holy Mooqy Strives for Martyrdom!"
Posted by: hikeup yourhijab at April 08, 2008 11:19 AM (YLGud)
3
Those with memories extending to '04 will remember that the Hon Sen John Kerry, when you could get an answer out of him, was all for increased training and support to Iraqi indigenous security forces AND a temporary build up of US forces; a "surge" if you will, of military might used to improve security and go after some of the splintered groups carrying out bombings and other attacks. Of course, this was also the Bush plan but we had no time for the Bush plan to go into effect, no we needed Kerry to get into office and get things rolling. That didn't happen but that bastard Bush just STOLE KERRY'S IDEAS!?!?!?!
That is a bitter pill I know but it may be the only way to get our Left-leaning citizens on board, even AFTER the victory parade. Remember the Marshall Plan was really the Truman Plan re-branded.
VIVA KERRY AND THE KERRY PLAN!!!!!
Posted by: megapotamus at April 08, 2008 11:45 AM (LF+qW)
4
Sorry
There is no way to get the goose-stepping Left on board, other than converting to their fascist ideology. The Left is more allied to Sadr, Zawahiri, and Ahmadinejad than they are to the USA.
Posted by: iconoclast at April 08, 2008 02:15 PM (M+wD9)
5
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 04/09/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at April 09, 2008 11:49 AM (gIAM9)
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